Flushing Helpp!!!

[StoneyBud]

I'm sorry stoney, but new evidence is new evidence. Flushing makes a difference and it is certainly grower specific

Hey, no need to be sorry. Keep in mind that the fact that *you* say it's so, doesn't make it so. You've done no double blind testing to verify your results, so your opinion is nothing more than that... an opinion.

Come back and claim it as a fact after you've verified it via double blind testing. THEN you'll have my full attention.

The entire reason for double blind testing is to take all the other variables OUT of the equation and prove that what you claim is actually what's happening.

Just the knowledge of smoking weed that you know belfore hand is flushed or not flushed blows your experiement away. It's not reliable testing method.

Until someone does that testing, flushing is nothing more than a very popular, unproven myth.

But like I said, if it makes you warm and fuzzy inside, then believe what you wish. Pink Unicorns, Sky Pixies, flushing, whatever...

Good luck to you man!

 

[WeedHopper]

I have tried it both ways on my clones and I have seen nor tasted a difference. Not saying it aint so,,but I havent seen it. Never heard of flushing tomato plants are any other fruit. Seems to me they,,if anything,, would need to be flushed if taste was a problem.

 

[The Effen Gee]

It is all about the burn folks. Too much nitrogen in your weed is too much nitrogen. Same with other MOBILE elements. I can tell you, coming from a place where the streets are paved with weed and the sidewalks are covered with the corpses of failed growers, flushing the NPK out of your plants makes a significant difference. Lie I said before, try growing a strain that smells and tastes like nothing, feed it untill the end (I am only talking about mostly Nitrogen and Potassium) there is a significant difference in the burn and taste.

No need for debate, studies or any of that crap. Getting the excess NPK out of your plants in the final weeks is a must ONLY IF YOU OVERFEED OR DO NOT FOLLOW THE FEEDING REGIMENT CORRECTLY.

Let me be more specific: If you are past week 5 or 6 (depending on the strain) and you are still giving your plants any N or P, you are going to know it when the product is dried.

Sorry folks, I know of more professionals in real life who grow, and flush. Their finished is top notch. Elite growers if you will and swear by fluishing or at the least, following the schedule.

I have said it before, even though you have been growing since before I am alive, does not mean you are 100% correct, and I believe that this is the only thing that we disagree on....

...other than molasses makes your pants go crazy....joking.

...well, not really.

Oh, just for fun, here is how I flush:

Final 14 days:

1st Week, water and Advanced horticultires Bloom Final. Full dose. Gravity, three times.
2nd Week, water, mild kelp solution, flushing salts (to remove salts) weird huh?

Last two days before harvest, I do not water at all. Faster drying time.

...And believe you me, I am ALWAYS down for the pepsi challenge. Theres room for more bodies here. Plenty.

 

[pcduck]

Is there a link to this double blind taste test you talk about Stoney?
I think it it would an interesting reading for many of the members that need proof not to flush or to flush.

 

[StoneyBud]

For those of you that are unfamiliar with what "Double Blind Testing" is, here's the way it's done if done with weed:

1. Two types of weed are used: Flushed and Not Flushed.

2. Both plants are grown under EXACTLY the same conditions and methods.

3. After harvesting, one toke batches are prepared of each type.

4. Each type is labeled as "A" or "B" and the person packaging them is the only one who knows which is which.

5. The first person is done.

6. The second person puts "A" in one new, clean pipe and "B" in a second new clean pipe. That person is the only person who knows which pipe "A" is in and which pipe "B" is in. He has no idea which is flushed or not.

7. A third person takes a toke of "A" and then "B". Records the variables such as how it burned, how it tasted, how harsh or smooth on a 1 to 10 scale.

8. After refreshing his/her mouth and throat exactly as before the first toke, the same tester now is given the same test again, but is given "B" first and then "A". Again, that person writes the results down.

9. The same test is done at least 20 times, mixing up the samples each time or not. "A" might be used four times in a row, or "B" could be.

10. After at least 20 tests with the first person, the same thing is done with at least 19 other people.

11. The results of all testers is combined and compared.

12. At that point, the flushed weed and unflushed weed are labeled in the data and the comparison will make it obvious if flushing mattered in the burning or taste of the weed.


Anything short of this type of test is meaningless. It's just called an opinion and treated as such. It's like hot sauces; tolerance, personal likes and dislikes, what was eaten with it, time of day, country, age, they all have to do with how a hot sauce will taste to an individual. Only with double blind testing can you find out if your hot sauce tastes like dog poo or if it's yummy to most people.

It's the same with weed.

The whole point with double blind testing is that neither the person preparing the tokes or the person taking the tokes knows which weed is which. This keeps any personal variables involved from being an issue.

The person taking the tokes has no idea which one he/she is smoking at any given time.

 

[pcduck]

I think I would like to try this double blind test of yours. Would you please send 20 samples for me to try, I will send my results back to you.



Just kidding Stoney, So you have done this procedure?

 

[StoneyBud]

No need for debate, studies or any of that crap.

If one is listening to a persons opinion, then of course you're correct. However, what you've said is nothing more than your opinion. My opinion is 180 degrees out from yours. I've also known and know many, many dealers and growers over the years and currently. Florida is just as much a weed state as is California. I've also grown and lived in California. Flushing is a new fad. Just a fad. Because of it's followers lack of double blind testing, it's never going to be used by the majority of growers. It surely isn't now. Of the growers I know here, now, only one flushes. I've smoked his weed. It tastes just like the other growers weed.

See? This is why you're wrong when you say "No need for debate, studies or any of that crap". There certainly IS a need for it. A simple double blind test of the theory will once and for all prove or disprove it's validity.

I appreciate your opinion Effen, but I think the only reason you like flushing is because YOU like flushing and have convinced yourself that it does what you think it does.

The double blind testing can be done at any college with an AG department. Write to one and ask them to do it during their next schedule of classes. If there is one thing I learned about Botany classes at colleges, the students LOVE to do tests that involve weed.

Look for any search results for medical Marijuana that have an "edu" extension on the site and write them about the issue. I'm sure one of them would test it during a course.

 

[WeedHopper]

Stoney,,I take it you and Effen dont see eye to eye on things.
Like I said,,mine is for personal use only. I have not seen NOR tasted the difference with flushing or not flushing my clones. Course I am not a Pro like Effen,,so I dont know ****.
BUT,, since I dont see the difference,,im good with my amature, screwed up, blind *** study.

 

[The Effen Gee]

...Many dispenceries actually ask if your weed is properly flushed before purchasing it from you...

Out of curiosity, what kind of feeding regiment do you give your plants?

...from week 4 to finish.

What is your regiment.

I appreciate your opinion Effen, but I think the only reason you like flushing is because YOU like flushing and have convinced yourself that it does what you think it does.

you also have a really annoying way of belittling people who do not agree with you. I have "read" this tune a hundred times. Double blind this...and that.

Facts are facts my bretheren, a vast majority of my growing information and TRAINING came from a gentleman who, without a doubt, knows more about growing cannabis than anyone I have ever met, read about or heard of. He is ALWAYS right and ALWAYS three steps ahead of the game, and continues to be. He was the first person to tell me not to listen to any of those big time grower advice guy's like Cervantes or Rosenthal. Those guy's are only hollywood. real growers don't have time to be on camera or take pictures for high times. Your either in the room, on the plot, reading or working on aquiring new gear and genetics. You are breeding, cloning, harvesting or tweaking your room. Its a lifestyle, a commitment.

...and he is just one of MANY professional growers, many you may even know or have heard of. If you have been paying attention to the scene that is....

My uncle was a botanist.
My father was a farmer, both herbs, worms and tropical fruit.
They both own patents on two kinds of rosemerry and sage.
I have never seen bigger outdoor cannabis plants than the types they were breeding in the 70's. Insanity. They look really funny with all that hair though. The 70's must have been rad.

I used to do crossbreeding of passionfruits when I was 8 years old. I can still smell the bleach foot wash from the greenhouse. I can still feel the texture of the pearlite in my fingers.

I know of what I speak.

What kind of weed did they use on this double blind test?
How experienced were the smokers?
Were any of them tobacco users?
Did they all brush their teeth before the test?
Did they all eat breakfast?

These are all variables that are almost IMPOSSIBLE to control in these types of test with a bunch of college students who just want to get high for a while cause everyone knows how boring lectures are.

Seriously man, this really is not my opinion, It is well known fact in the area that has more growers per square mile than anywhere else in the world. Flush your damn plants. Don't give them food past week 6(i) or 8(s). hormones and stimulants are fine. Micronutrients, fine. NO NPK.

That is the issue. NITROGEN, which WILL NOT BURN. "...my joint won't stay lit, ect..."
Phosphorus, Pop, Crackle, Snap! Goes the joint when lit.

How can you possibly argue this? This is why flushing takes TWO WEEKS. I used to not advocate it at all, until I did my own side by side with cinderella 99, and unless you have either A, smoked C99 OR B, Grown a strain that tastes like NOTHING (like a blank canvas) and actually done it YOURSELF...

Well...

I don't know then.

 

[NorCalHal]

This has been, and probably will be a debate for years to come.
Personally. I am up in the air about it. BUT, I do run plain phed water the last 10-14 days, though I do it because I feel that it helps the calyx swell more then running a nuit till the end.

This thread is at a GREAT time. I actually just changed my resevoirs over to water last nite on my Sour Diesel run. So timing is perfect.
I will make a batch of nuits and feed one of my plants nuits until the end of the cycle, while "flushing" the rest of the crop.
Thanks to Stoney, I will follow his "testing" method on a couple of close friends and post the results.
Not to worry, I grow the way I grow, and a "taste"test will not change my method of growing, so the results either way will not effect the way I do things.
But with the timing of this thread and my garden, I think I can help with a little more "real" testing.

Great debate guys!

 

[StoneyBud]

Stoney,,I take it you and Effen dont see eye to eye on things.

He and I agree on almost everything except for flushing in regards to taste or burning quality.

Hey, that's what makes the world go round...

If we all thought exactly the same, it would be a boring world.

The entire reason for double blind testing is to remove personal opinion from the equation.

Effen's a great guy. He's just as strong willed and opinionated as I am. I think those are good qualities in a person. Who wants an old wishy-washy flip-flopping, spineless jelly fish's opinion?

I think I frustrate Effen because I won't take his or anyones opinion as being fact. I don't care if 30 people tell me that THEY think flushing works. At that point, I've just heard 30 opinions based on personal likes and dislikes.

The testing that has been developed by scientists across the world is the only way to prove this type of issue. Opinions just fly around and get discussed. Testing results actually prove a theory.

 

[NorCalHal]

As far as the dispensaries are concerned, I KNOW for a fact that they have no clue how/why/method/nuit chice of how the weed they are buying is grown.
I have had many a club TELL me that my herb is the best Organic they have seen.

I use GH.

 

[StoneyBud]

Yawn....Many dispenceries actually ask if your weed is properly flushed before purchasing it from you...

I don't care. Many don't.

The "Yawn" crack is an impolite jab.

It also ended my participation in the discussion with you, Effen.

Go yawn at someone else.

 

[NorCalHal]

Here is a thought thogh fellas, do you think that strain can and does play a role in this?
We all know that different strains react differently to nuits, so it makes sense to me that certain strains will react different to final flushing, or running nuits till the end will have an effect on finished herb quality?

 

[StoneyBud]

Here is a thought thogh fellas, do you think that strain can and does play a role in this?
We all know that different strains react differently to nuits, so it makes sense to me that certain strains will react different to final flushing, or running nuits till the end will have an effect on finished herb quality?

Very possibly, NCH. Perhaps not also. The only proof possible is by utilizing double blind testing.

That's why it was developed.

If absolute care is taken to make the test totally fair to both sides, then the results mean something.

If someone who knows that they are smoking flushed weed says "Hey, this is smooth", then that person might just be having a smooth taste day.

Then someone hands that person unflushed weed and says "Here's that nasty, harsh unflushed crap", then the tester is going to already hate it.

See what I mean?

Only when the preparer and the tester are totally ignorant of what they are using, will the test mean anything.

 

[StoneyBud]

If someone tells other scientists "Well I tested it and I was right", then the others just ignore them.

When submitted with data:

1. Exactly how the test was performed.

2. Enough tests to eliminate favor or factors that would alter the results like; time between tests, taste refreshers used, climate control in testing area...that sort of thing.

3. Enough testers to make the test results show that man, women, old, young, smokers, non-smokers, caffeine users, non caffeine users are used to eliminate any possibility of favor again.

If data is presented in this fashion, it's always taken as good data, but if only one testing is done by one place, it's also not taken too seriously. Only when two or more places do EXACTLY the same test and get the same results is the data taken as fact.

If the test results STILL vary, after two or more places do the tests, then the tests were not set up properly for the item being tested and they start all over after new testing criteria is set.

This is done until ALL the testing results in the same data. This method is done on every major food that is produced for humans. Medicines also.

Most food crop additives are required by the FDA to produce testing results such as this. No testing, no approval.

I find it hard to believe that someone, somewhere hasn't already performed these tests on medical weed.

If so, I sure haven't found it.

 

[The Effen Gee]

I don't care. Many don't.

The "Yawn" crack is an impolite jab.

It also ended my participation in the discussion with you, Effen.

Go yawn at someone else.

Sorry, I thought I deleted that part.

I really don't mean any disrespect to you personally, you know that.
I do respect my elders. If I didn't, I would not have been gifted with the knowledge I have today.

That goes for many on this site as well...

 

[StoneyBud]

Sorry, I thought I deleted that part.

I really don't mean any disrespect to you personally, you know that.
I do respect my elders. If I didn't, I would not have been gifted with the knowledge I have today.

That goes for many on this site as well...

Ok. You know me. I'm old, set in my ways, and not very tolerant of rudeness. I'm kinda like the Grandfather from hell. hehe

I'm in my new No Stress mode. Someone pulls a gun on me, I'm going to yawn in their face... No stress!

 

[pcduck]

I find it hard to believe that someone, somewhere hasn't already performed these tests on medical weed.

If so, I sure haven't found it.

I am confused So nobody has actually done this double blind taste test? If that is true, all this is just based on opinion right? Maybe we should have someone here preform this test. Please send all samples to me, I will treat all samples the same and let ya know the results.

 

[cuy103]

Is the question of flushing regarding the taste and burn?

Are we debating whether or not flushing increases the effect it has on taste? Or if it has any effect at all?

I definitely understand Effen Gee's point about having too much NPK when
you overfeed or do not follow the feeding regiment correctly which might effect the burn. I believe there's a solid scientific way of testing burn effects.

What about taste? Can the way the bud burns inherently effect the taste?
If the bud smokes smooth, will it always taste better? If the bud smokes harsh, it always tastes worse? Will you still get that lemon flavor you wanted?

If the burn can inherently effect the taste, and if flushing effects the burn, then I would think that flushing effect the taste as well.

P.S. All of this is just my opinion. I'm kind of high right now and I'm feeling philosophical, which is why I'm asking so many questions.

PEACE