Elephant Man's Grow Journal, 1st attempt

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Inducing Sativa

After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Specifically, I find the single most powerful influence to the Indica dominant phenotype is the traditional 18/6 veggie cycle and 12/12 flowering cycle. The 18/6 veggie and 12/12 flower cycle is an attempt, however poor, to mimic the Indica-producing photoperiod. It is my belief that this light cycle strongly influences for Indica phenotypic expression.

Sativa phenotype characteristics will manifest under a more equatorial photoperiod, closer to a 13/11 veggie cycle and an 11/13 flower cycle. This is the light timing range to use to elicit more Sativa dominant expression from your plants.

As for the exact photoperiod formula that I incorporate into my growing/breeding regime, this will presently remain a trade secret. My advice is to experiment with different photoperiods, keep good notes and pay attention. Avoid the 18/6 and 12/12 photoperiods, while tweaking the times a bit differently with each breeding cycle until more desirable results in the finished product and their offspring are noted. Here's a hint: work in half-hour increments or a little less, and good luck!


Indica and Sativa characteristics.
Angle of Light

Angle of light simply refers to the physical angle of light source the plant is dependent upon for growth. Perhaps the greatest difference between indoor and outdoor environments has to do with the angle of light received by the plant. This is also one of the greatest seasonal differences between the Sativa and Indica producing regions.

Outdoors, the main light source is the Sun, with minor influence coming from nearby reflective surfaces. As a plant grows taller and broader outdoors, that angle of light from the sun changes very little in relationship to the growing plant.

Seasonal changes in angle of light increase the further away from the equator one gets. At the equator there is the least amount of seasonal change in angle of light, only about 20°, whereas at the 45th parallel that change is as great as 45°. At the 45th latitude, the Summer Sun is high in the sky while during early Spring and late Fall the sunlight comes from much lower in the sky. The farther one goes from the equator, the greater the difference in seasonal changes regarding angle of light.

Indoors, the lights typically range from a few inches to several feet from the plant. As the plant grows taller, its physical relationship to the bulb's angle of light changes considerably. Most indoor grow rooms have relatively low ceilings, therefore, raising the bulbs may maintain a similar angle of light early on, but eventually the angle changes. The same differences may be noted among plants directly below the bulb and the plants off to the side of the room farther away from the bulb.

Circular light shuttles tend to emulate the arctic summer and create a confusing signal completely unknown to the equatorial Sativa. Straight-track overhead light shuttles are more conducive to inducing the Sativa phenotype.


Blueberry x Durban Poison
Aromatics and flavors

Many indoor growers try to get their budding plants as close to the light source as possible. Though this may increase bulk production of both bud and trichome, I find that this practice tends to destroy many of the finer aromatic qualities of the herb.

Buds too close to the light tend to express nothing beyond the lower lemon/lime aromas of the fruity spectrum. Sometimes the aroma is no better than a strong chemical/astringent odor and flavor, especially those under High Pressure Sodium light systems. The finer berry flavors tend to favor more distance from the bulb, and will manifest more strongly under High Ultraviolet Metal Halide light systems, especially during the latter stages of flowering.

Something akin to a gymnasium building with high ceilings and super 5000W lights hung far from the growing plants, set at a Sativa-tweaked photoperiod, would be the ultimate indoor grow-op to coax Sativa phenotypes.

Sweet spot fantasy

Nothing will ever rival the great outdoor sweet spots for quality cannabis production. Hopefully, someday, somewhere, someone will be daring and lucky enough to get away with re-establishing some of the great genetic lines in their specific region of origin sweet spots.

Equatorial Sativa varieties are of interest for quality herb production (Thailand, Oaxaca, Colombia, Central Africa, etc.) as the Indica zones are more renowned for hashish production. Parts of Nepal tend to produce both excellent hashish and fine Sativa buds, with some plants reportedly living longer than two years!

I hope that I am able to live long enough to once again experience the joy associated with the fine herbal products from the great regional sweet spots of near ancient lore. It has been a long time and I am looking forward to the day.

Eman:ccc:
 
And for those who don't want to read all that.

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What's happenin Eman? That's interesting. I wonder if using fluorescents for veg and flow would help the aroma/taste at all. My thought is the light isn't as intense and more spread out so leading to a higher quality outdoorsy??? I am in the process of selling my MH and HPS right now and am also buying 3 more 4' 4 bulb t5s. Once my mother has enough cuttings available then I'll begin.


Oh and since you're the scientist could you tell me if that makes sense even? :)
 
DLtoker said:
What's happenin Eman? That's interesting. I wonder if using fluorescents for veg and flow would help the aroma/taste at all. My thought is the light isn't as intense and more spread out so leading to a higher quality outdoorsy??? I am in the process of selling my MH and HPS right now and am also buying 3 more 4' 4 bulb t5s. Once my mother has enough cuttings available then I'll begin.


Oh and since you're the scientist could you tell me if that makes sense even? :)

I dunno mang...there are as many HPS vs. MH threads as there are HID vs. flouros threads. I just kinda based some opinions from them but to tell the truth I use all 3 in flower.:D Just more blue than anything else.

Gonna probably be some flouro stuff coming up cause my bro says I can't grow in a shoebox.:huh:

Finally found a use for this crappy cam, now if only I could focus between 3 ft. and 3mm.:rolleyes: MMmmmm trichomes from your freind the Elephant Man.:ccc:

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Honestly just like documenting date for the cure. But I thought a pic might prove a point. 'Big Herm' the bagseed was ok in the smoke department...creeper is fun...but since I got so many others to try I decided to phase her out after reveg. Had these 2 rooted clones so I put them in a bucket with some **** and a tablespoon of POM or 2...just tossed them in flower room. Watered them (no nutes) cause I didn't care much and didn't really even have them under the light. 2 months later this is what I got dried...after a good few month cure you can bet I will enjoy smoking this. All because I chose no to overfeed and smoke my plants before harvest.

:ccc:

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HGB's fault...and yes there will be a plant in this thing. :huh:

Found this cooler on the side of the road.

9x7x9"high 42 watt cfl cpu intake and exhaust 3 degrees over room temp

Just pushing the boundaries having a good time growing and sharing. :D

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Incredible thread. But who wrote this????.... After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.....
I'd like to get the book ?
 
oleflowerman said:
Incredible thread. But who wrote this????.... After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.....
I'd like to get the book ?

Go back a page.
 
Ok...decided to quit beating around the bush and come out with it. This is the new perpetual grow. One room 4x9 2kw+ on 11/13 light cycle, and a male in the window.:D

No veg...no cloning...no moms...flowering directly from seed.:huh:

Little known method out there guys, mostly designed for sativas. Truth is, MJ will veg until mature...simple nature, regardless of light cycles. This method is very popular with breeders, where yeild is not as important, and I learned it from a Dutch coffee shop grower (seek out atmosphere1). Worth pointing out, this method works best with sativas, but many strains do well also. As I pointed out before, I focus on sativas, and quality and fun outweigh yeild in my case. Interesting also, In my soon to be documented search for the true breeding sativas, I have already discovered what will be the ultimate grail if I can find it. It comes from a village in Vietnam called Manal, and it is possibly the largest and most psychoactive sativa there is. One breeder has stated it is extremely difficult to grow indoor and should only be done in flower from seed. Before any of you go looking for it though, let me warn you. It is not for the hobby grower and can take 15 weeks to finish. Outdoor it can grow 30 feet. It is very powerful and without a good cure, could possibly make one sick. muwahahaha

Another very good reason for me to do this is because low latitude sativas are very heat and low RH tolerant...and clones are not. In the summer months when I need to shut down I will just make seed and harvest...no moms to deal with. I can easily keep temps optimal with cooler night temp flower room, than dealing with veg too. No lights on here during the day at all.;)
Should be really fun to see me try to tame this beast once I find it.:chuck: In the meantime, I will be running along with my Jack Herer hybrid (male pollinating now), Swazi Safari, and Cherry Malawi for the sativas. Already got some hybrids in there too...more soon

Few pics

Eman:ccc:

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by whom >>>/????

So EMAN i went back a page and this is all I found......

"I am just a tad busy today so let me get back to you on the particulars, but this DJ. Short article sums it up nicely:.........."

We gotta give credit where credit is do.

An oldfriend of mine used to say " Give the credit to whom it is do....TWICE. Then call it your own :)
 
Thanks Hick! So happy to see you finally made it...been saving the recliner and this blended doobie just for you.:smoke1:

Frank: Yes, brother all sativas/hybrids will be grown from seed...most indicas will be tested using this method. If you would like more info, I can pm you a link to Atmosphere1's grow journal....maybe you can read Dutch.

Opencountry: Dude, growing without adequate filtration is stupid, regardless of where your power meter is.;)

Sorry guys I've been so busy but here are some pics to try and make up for it...

Eman:ccc:

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Sorry guys, been super duper busy lately, every 6 weeks or so I guess I have to take a 'time out' from internet to get caught up in real life.:eek: Still got private messages to get to, please bear with me.

Grow has pretty much been turned upside down, yes peeps, this journal is getting flipped again.:rolleyes: It seems breeding is becoming top priority (most fun).

I love building soilmixes, but to be honest with you, I cannot make a 'universal' mix for the masses. Setup conditions and strains bring in soooo many variables it really is tough to comprehend. My conditions have fine tuned my mix, and lighting, humidity, and different strains will always require fixes. I will continue to post organic mixes, amendments and additives I am favorable to, and try to help peeps in sick plants and such...but basically, you guys and gals all have to understand that adapting my mixes/feedings to my environment may take many more grows. Big props to companies like Fox Farms and GH that produce very good results in nearly any environment.

On the organic front...I have good and bad news. The truth is, if you research enough, you will find possibilities that nearly everything is 'semi-organic'. This was interesting at first, but now it has become annoying. It seems someone has finally posted evidence that some of my favorite items may not be 100% organic. I cannot afford to toss products and restock to keep up with technology, and organic items do have shelf lives, so I have mixed things up a bit now. Which brings me to the good news...in a way I choose to fall back on some early observations, and did some testing:

Let me say first, that regardless of what ORMI says, some listed items are not 100% organic, maybe 99%...so based on that, I am basing my judgements on my microlife. Once you get fermenting, you will see what you can add to teas without killing off your beasties. Whether or not Botanicare products are 100% organic or not I do not know, but I can tell you my beasties love them, so until I run out, I will mix them with my amendments and other liquid products. I also have to say that those on tap water are not necessarily forced to use RO.

Uggghhh...so much to update...you still with me?:smoke1:

I have really focused on breeding now and more research uncovered much info from one of my mentors: REv. Basically, I have to keep males so veg is back. The '11/13 from seed' is still in progress, but I quickly learned that pollinating seedlings in flower from birth can be a bit of work, so moms, clones and are back too.:rolleyes: Every strain I grow will still be tested in flower from seed though, my first few will be picture worthy soon.:cool:

Coocoo for coco :D

Yes I finally broke into that bail I got on a 'half-priced take home and try' dealio and I am in love. Coco is organic, it is coconut production waste and inexpensive. It is easy to ship as it comes compressed. I might throw up one of those 'copy and paste' posts on coco coir, but for now lemme just say that if you have not tried it, buy a $2 brick at your hydro shop and play with it.;) Upcoming pics should speak for themselves. Right now I am using PBP and teas and soon amendments in 100% coir, but when I run out of PBP, I may switch to Metanaturals. My test substrate (coco) is basically inert (no amendments) because it is easiest being perpetual, but I will be adding things and phasing out liquid ferts soon enough.;) Moms and dads are in soil.

Well, as usual that post took about an hour, seems the higher my post count gets the longer it takes to post.;) I still remember when I put up several posts an hour back in the day LOL. Truly amazing how experience can change things.

Be back soon with more crappy pics.

Eman:ccc:
 
crazy thread E MAN...i learned lots of new things...propz..keep it up
 
rami said:
crazy thread E MAN...i learned lots of new things...propz..keep it up

Thanks Rami brother, mucho mojo back at ya :ccc:

Some pics of a new star in the lineup. She comes from a great guy who has helped me alot, her name is 'DF99 x 'clips'' and this is my favorite pheno. I know her lineage, I forget, but there is some G13 in there too. Dunno if I am getting better or if she really likes me, but she is really beautiful. Finally got my K right and her stem is huge. Definately a hardy strain here.

I usually let them stretch out just abit because I like packing them in and this way she gets a little more breeze under her wings, this is a perfect example of internode distance I like.;)

Got her in a little clear tupperware container with no drainage just 'cause I can I guess.:rolleyes:

Eman:ccc:

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DLtoker said:
Eman, I can't wait to buy your book! You are an MJ mastermind!

Honestly bro, just a guy and some weeds.:eek: I would love to write a book...ummm...this journal is close I guess, and thanks to MarPassion it is here for all to enjoy absolutely free...for those who don't know, he pays for this site from his own pocket.:clap:

I wish I could do something better with my research and energy, such as work towards the legalization of MJ, but honestly bro...I am not that courageous or intelligent.:(

Anyway, veg has been converted to a big 'sink'. This table can be used NFT style, flooded with a threaded riser, or drip...or just handwatered which is what I am still doing. Nearby water connections and drain from laundry.

Eman:ccc:

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Eman whats going on my friend. ;) Everytime i stop in your journal you have 50 other things going on. :p This has to be one of the best if not the best documented grow journal ever put on MP IMHO. :aok:
 
you got a nice grow going here... nice healthy plants.

There are some good yeilding sativa's out there, you just have to look hard for them. Maybe you should check out mandala seeds.. They have some nice pure sativa's that may suit you that also has nice yeilds.

krystallica is one that comes to mind.. Satori is also a Sativa dom plant.. the krystallica is a pure sativa i believe.
 

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