Chemical vs Organic fertilizers

[ShOrTbUs]

he's saying that humans are already destroying the planet in many different ways. also that there are so many other things that destroy our planet much more then the use of chemical ferts.

imo this whole discussion is irrelevant. there will always be people who will want to grow in a way that isn't harmful to the planet. and people who don't care enough and just want the biggest fastest yeilds possible. which is just dumb b/c the increase in yeilds(if there even is one) is so miniscule that its just not worth sacrificing the good of our planet.

 

[pcduck]

he's saying that humans are already destroying the planet in many different ways.

I understand that part SB. What I do not understand is how it relates to the difference between chemical nutes and organics.:confused2: Is that not what this thread was about originally?

also that there are so many other things that destroy our planet much more then the use of chemical ferts

True there are many things that destroy our planet and chem nutes are just one. Ask nearly anyone that lives around the Great Lakes(the largest fresh water body on the planet) what chemical nute run off has done to them. From huge dead zones from algae blooms where fish will not live. To the slimy green filled yuck floating all over. To the 2 foot deep dead algae covering the lake bottoms. This has happened just in the last few years and getting worst fast.

Chemical nutes works, I am not debating that, but so does organics without the detrimental effects that chems have.

 

[ShOrTbUs]

here here!, we should start a TLO group :48:

 

[DrFever]

I am not debating of course they both work and yes i will agree some growers are negligent on disposing there run offs,
I think your totally blaming chemicals on the algae / blooms on the great lakes where that again is not all of the cause
runoff from cities and towns the slow down of rivers also effect this the over population really if you think about it, zebra muscles cause this as well, over flow from septic tanks , live stock near water there so many causes
How many people S H I T in New York in a day where do you think its going.

you here organic mj growers mention there buds are better more potent , and overall looks i will have to find a email and post where a friend entered a organic canibus cup and won but funny thing is after he said to judges it was grown chemically and the look on there faces as he told me

Bottom line i guess i may have to start a journal 1 plant organic only water fed and one chemical time frame 2 weeks from clone veg then flower 1000 watt per per plant c02 induced with a break down of complete costs per yield data soil , power etc
Cause at the end of the day it really is and i don't care what anyone says about yield and looks of final product
then will have a smoke report done with some friend not knowing which joint is organic and which joint isn't and report there findings

 

[ShOrTbUs]

Bottom line i guess i may have to start a journal 1 plant organic only water fed and one chemical time frame 2 weeks from clone veg then flower 1000 watt per per plant c02 induced with a break down of complete costs per yield data soil , power etc
Cause at the end of the day it really is and i don't care what anyone says about yield and looks of final product
then will have a smoke report done with some friend not knowing which joint is organic and which joint isn't and report there findings

the problem with side by side grows like this is that the person doing it must have = experience at growing chemically and organically. otherwise the findings will always support the side with which your experience is greater

 

[pcduck]

I think your totally blaming chemicals on the algae / blooms on the great lakes where that again is not all of the cause

Many case studies have been done showing that it is.:confused2:
The influx of non-native species that clarify the water have just hasten it.

People's well water are showing chemicals in it that directly points to chemical fertilizers.:confused2:

I am not saying that chemical fertilizers is the sole cause of these examples, but they play a major part.

But any way I still do not understand why it is part of the thread. Now if you were going to debate organic growing is causing this and not chemical fertilizers, I could understand why.. What you are debating is chemical fertilizers are not the sole blame:doh: But it is still part of it.imo

 

[Rosebud]

the problem with side by side grows like this is that the person doing it must have = experience at growing chemically and organically. otherwise the findings will always support the side with which your experience is greater

Exactly, I don't care which tastes better or gives a better yield. It is a way of life. You don't just say i will grow organic and do it. Takes a long time for compost to become compost.

 

[pcduck]

Exactly, I don't care which tastes better or gives a better yield. It is a way of life. You don't just say i will grow organic and do it. Takes a long time for compost to become compost.

:yeahthat::goodposting:

Taste is an opinion anyways

 

[DrFever]

If you could ask your plants the same question, you’d find out that at the most basic level, they really can’t tell the difference – nutrients are nutrients.
To begin with, the terminology can be confusing, since labels and gardeners freely throw around words like organic, natural, inorganic, chemical, synthetic, artificial, and manufactured. The good news is that the choice can be reduced to either organic or chemical fertilizers.

The words “organic” or “natural” in this case simply means that the product is only minimally processed, and the nutrients remain bound up in their natural forms, rather than being extracted and refined. In the case of fertilizer, “organic” does NOT refer to the standards of processing associated with food.

Organic fertilizer is usually made from plant or animal waste or powdered minerals. Examples include manure and compost, as well as bone and cottonseed meal. They are usually sold as “soil conditioners” rather than as fertilizer, because the nutrient ratios are difficult to guarantee. Organic fertilizers may be processed in a factory, or, in the case of manure and compost, at a farm.
Organic fertilizers break down according to nature’s rules, so they may not release nutrients as soon as you need them. You have to be patient – you won’t see improvement overnight. In fact, you may actually see a deficiency in your plants during the first couple of months until the first application breaks down. Hang in there! You’ll most definitely be rewarded.
Nutrient ratios are often unknown, and the overall percentage is lower than chemical fertilizers. However, some organic products are actually higher in certain nutrients.

 

[TwoHighCrimes]

Hi guys "n" gal.
Imma keep it short and sweet cos i cannot be bothered with this ...
My compost pile consists of Lawn Clippings and Leaves never been fed any chemicals
Worm bins fed with Organic Vegetables and lawn clippings x2
1 bin is (N) only the other is (P) and (K) :hubba:
And of course my bubble teas come from both the compost pile and worm bins !
The only other product i use is kelp meal and Fish emulsion which is OMRI approved !

Now can't we talk about HPS vs CFL again ...Its always the same kinda debate (it never ends) !
Personally i hate the taste of buds from dealers that use chemicals and don't flush !
And Drfever there are no animals products in my feeding schedules.
I love organics for flavour and having free nutrients and great plants JMO :icon_smile:

More anecdotally, committed tea users say that the microbes in compost tea help break up impacted soils, clean up toxic chemicals, and greatly cut down on the need for added fertilizers. Some results are remarkable: John Evans, winner of numerous Guinness World Records for giant vegetables, used only compost tea to grow his 19-lb. carrot and 75-lb. Swiss chard.

Edit: And our very own great barrier reef is dying due to chemicals leaching into rivers from cash cropper farmers who only think of themselves and create algae blooms and kill the envioronment
It is proven ! hxxp://sitemaker.umich.edu/gc2sec7labgroup3/pollution

 

[WeedHopper]

Whats the best way to make yur compost bin? I was gonna use a big trash can and drill holes in it. Will that work? Dont want no freaken rats and cats messen around my Compost.

 

[TwoHighCrimes]

:ciao: Weedhopper

I was looking at buying a compost tumbler but the cost is a bit out of my league

In saying that ..I ventured to youtube and found some really interesting ideas on how to

It is simple and a hell of alot cheaper imo!
You only require a few 2x4 timbers and a 44gal drum and a steel pole or PVC pipe to insert through the center of the drum to rotate it !

I googled DIY Compost tumbler and ended up at youtube
I have everything required to build one ...but i gotta get of the bong for a while and get it done !

Here's an idea for you i also recommend leaving enough room underneath it so a wheelbarrow can fit under it and empty it !
I would also recommend a dark colour as this helps the breakdown of the material compost faster !
Total cost for my items was $48.95c and i also recommend using a food grade bin not chemical due to chemicals leaching into the plastic and causing further problems .

All the best and take care !

 

[ShOrTbUs]

yeah, i'll be doing a DIY tumbler when i move. currently, i just dont have anywhere to put one.

 

[WeedHopper]

So ya dont need any holes in it?

 

[ShOrTbUs]

So ya dont need any holes in it?

i would put a 4" breezeway on each side, and cover it with a screen. you deff want air flow for when its just sitting and cooking.

 

[WeedHopper]

Thats what I figured. Cool

 

[ShOrTbUs]

i also read that you have to keep your eye on compost tumblers. they have a tendency to overheat. when cooking compost there are 3 stages to the cooking process. each stage has a temp range that you want to keep your pile within in order for it to cook properly. i'll be adding a thermometer to my tumbler.

 

[WeedHopper]

This guys is great.

hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=1kqGxPBUH9g

 

[Rosebud]

I am going to step out of this thread as I don't think I am learning anything new and ya'll know how i feel. Just wanted to say to Fever, that in responce to your statement about the plant doesn't know the difference... I say, does your body know the difference from drinking tang and eating an orange? Does your body know the difference from man made high fructose corn syrup from sugar? Like I said, it is a life style. Good luck to you.

 

[pcduck]

If you could ask your plants the same question, you’d find out that at the most basic level, they really can’t tell the difference – nutrients are nutrients.

Studies have been done providing data showing, that roots will grow towards an organic source faster and larger. Roots Demystified by Robert Kourik, Teaming with Microbes by Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis, and Building Soils Naturally Innovative Methods for Organic Gardeners by Phil Nauta. There is more info and in detail explaining the difference with enzymes and acids that are affected.

The words “organic” or “natural” in this case simply means that the product is only minimally processed, and the nutrients remain bound up in their natural forms, rather than being extracted and refined.

In many places as little as 15% needs to be organic to be labeled as such. That is why you need to see the OMRI approval.

Organic fertilizers break down according to nature’s rules, so they may not release nutrients as soon as you need them. You have to be patient – you won’t see improvement overnight.

But is it not a nature plant that we are growing? So why not let nature do her thing as the plant is in control and will take what it needs. The grower just needs to be informed enough to know what they want.

Use AACT's teas and one is able to see improvement "overnight" ime.

Organic gardening is a way of life. And when I use organic methods I feel like I am doing my little bit in improving the environment and the soil food web.

It is your prerogative to use what best suits your needs and some chemical nutes are not all that bad, but I would only use them as a last resort.