Bag Seed Babies!

[AlkaloidContent]

If you follow the rules of most here you will wait until they show alternating nodes and pre-flowers and then change to 12/12. This can take at least 6 weeks.
If space is a problem or you want to fasten up the grow you can change after 3 weeks, but you will suffer in yield and perhaps in female ratio.
If you wait for pre-flowers you will have to do something to control growth like top and lst.

OMG! What if I after like 3-4 weeks top and still do my usual trim towards a center technique, switching to 12/12 at the 6 week mark, could this keep growth down to a certain height while also thickening center growth

your idea + my idea = big fat dense cola bud?

As for the alternating nodes, I feel dumb again as this is obviously the answer I just never had to pay that close attention, I always forced flowering, or grew outdoor.

 

[bho_expertz]

I force flowering aswell ... Next will not ... Or will ? Don't know yet ... Is more like a feeling or need

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Thats really my style just give it what it needs, use your equipment properly, and take advantage of the process if you have to for benefit not greed.

Otherwise, thhrow it outside, feed here and there, and wait.

 

[SunWolf]

OMG! What if I after like 3-4 weeks top and still do my usual trim towards a center technique, switching to 12/12 at the 6 week mark, could this keep growth down to a certain height while also thickening center growth

your idea + my idea = big fat dense cola bud?

As for the alternating nodes, I feel dumb again as this is obviously the answer I just never had to pay that close attention, I always forced flowering, or grew outdoor.

Pretty much everything I've read here on MP, (and pretty much everything everybody has said in this thread) says switching to 12/12 before they are sexually mature will just make them stretch taller. If they are not ready to go to flower when you cut the light, they will stretch to look for more light. Once they have gone alternating and show preflowers, they are ready to flower and the 12/12 is then appropriate.

As for clipping (your usual trim towards a center technique) the leaves on plants grown from seed, well that just makes it harder for them to get everything they need from the light because they only have half the "solar panel" because you cut half of it away.

Just seems like you are looking for shortcuts instead of going with the general consensus on what has been proven to work. sorry, jmo

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

You cannot actually force flowering. They will not flower until they are sexually mature, regardless of when you switch the light to 12/12.

 

[jbyrd]

Ya know...reading through all this, I think with your height constraints you would do well with super cropping and LST, you'd get your bushes and be able to control canopy height very well. I have to concur with Hick on the trimming of the leaves, it's just taking away from the plants ability to convert light to energy and slowing it's growth down.

There's a lot of people on both sides of the fence regarding leaf culling and trimming...some that swear by taking off 'extra' fans that are blocking bud sites, etc. In the end...the basic science of how a plant grows tells you it's a no no..lol. We want to grow the most healthy plants possible, that means leaving her vitals alone

Anyhow, I'm along for the ride. I think the questions you ask and the methods you are trying are all beneficial for people to see and learn from. Whether it's learn to or not too, it's all good to have it journaled.

Peace man!

 

[bho_expertz]

Well ... I don't agree with that totally ... they will not ONLY stretch taller but they will force the sex show.

For example a 3 weeks plant. If wait until pre-flowers it can take at least more 3 weeks ( or longer ). If induce flowering the sex will show in one week, one week and a half max.

They will always stretch because the stretch happens when the light is off and when changing to 12/12 they will automatically stretch if 3 weeks or 6 weeks.

For example i had 14 seeds or something ... If i waited until all of them showned preflowers it would be a dense jungle. It is all different ways of growing depending on your setup, size, etc. You cannot say to a person growing in a cabinet to wait until preflowers to change to 12/12. But one person with a good sized growroom or very few plants you can give that tip. Few and big VS More and smaller.

I still do not believe that waiting for preflowers is a most for growing. But everyone is the right to follow what they think the best .

Of course you cannot expect a yield of much with just one but you can make it having more plants.

Regarding the removal of leaves or bottom buds ... I don't do that but i have seen ppl who does that. Think that only in SOG.

Hope i didn't hurt anyone feelings just my opinion. But i'm kinda new to the business.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I'm not saying that you have to wait for preflowers. I am saying that the plant will not flower until it is ready. You are not actually forcing them to flower. You are giving them flowering light, nutes, etc so that as soon as they are ready (sexually mature), they are in the correct environment.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

I'm not saying that you have to wait for preflowers. I am saying that the plant will not flower until it is ready. You are not actually forcing them to flower. You are giving them flowering light, nutes, etc so that as soon as they are ready (sexually mature), they are in the correct environment.

Oh okay see I actually thought the opposite to be true. I thought that the change in environment was what made the plant begin to change its thought process and do what it has to do to live FOREVA! lol.

So around 6 weeks eh? I wonder about how tall they will be then, they are about an inch and are around a week so I hope that ratio continues. I know if I top Ill get two colas then I can center the growth on them but IDK we'll see, I like to take it day by day.

and wow the babies we have outside really turned around, about 3-4 days ago they were just looking sad, just sad, going yellow, leaf tips browning, abnormal growth, etc. THey were basically planted in some pottin gmix with some bloodmeal and left to go for the rains and a watering maybe here or there.

These however arent mine, but upon inspecting them I decided to convince the owner to let me look after em.

So I made another random feed concoction with about 1/2 tsp bloodmeal, 2 of the rolaids with calcium and magnesium tap water and....Oh yea 1/2 tsp molasses, and I think thats it, watered em, and now 2 days later BAM, lush green new growth the they are standing flat out and looking happy again!

 

[bho_expertz]

I also don't think that topping will give you two colas ... If you do it right and with LST it gives you multiple colas. And it also depends on the node you top.

IMO you should really buy some REAL ferts. PH meter and EC meter.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

OH YEA! I wanted to ask you guys what you thought about wheat germ.

I see it has tons of nute value, and I also wanna take into consideration about Hicks flinstones vitamin idea, anybody got any thoughts?

Of course I still want to use the fish emulsion, mollases, and until I come up with a verdict, the rolaids, also only for now until its time to flower then getting a good bloom NPK going, but always even still providing tons of vite and mins for the babies, I really only see it becoming an issue if there is too much sodium buildup or other trace elements in the flintstones vites.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

I also don't think that topping will give you two colas ... If you do it right and with LST it gives you multiple colas. And it also depends on the node you top.

IMO you should really buy some REAL ferts. PH meter and EC meter.

Thats strange because I topped the biggest outdoor baby we have, shortly before someone bent it over. Well its good now all patched up but you can clearly see the two branches from the node below where I snipped have become there own bud sites, almost like two new plants growing out of it, but you know what I mean. That should make to new buds if trimmed to center, but that would be alot of work so I see what you mean about alot of littler branches. Possible tho IMO


and as for REAL ferts, all a REAL fert is, is a bottle with a name brand on it that contains certain concentrations of elements.

Why is it so hard to provide those same elements, I mean their everywhere (thinking aloud here). See my post about wheat germ, look at the nutritional supply of just this one ingredient. Phosphorous, Potassium, Calcium, Iron, NO SODIUM, carbs, protein. ITS WHEAT for crying out loud.

 

[jbyrd]

I'm not saying that you have to wait for preflowers. I am saying that the plant will not flower until it is ready. You are not actually forcing them to flower. You are giving them flowering light, nutes, etc so that as soon as they are ready (sexually mature), they are in the correct environment.

The plant contains flowering hormones that are present during all stages of growth. It's the photoperiod that determines whether the plant will flower or not. If the plant sense's that it's growing season is coming to an end, it will induce flowering so it can reproduce before it dies.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I understand that the plant contains flowering hormones and that the light schedule triggers this...to a point. The plant must be sexually mature before it will flower regardless of the light schedule. For instance, a 2 week old seedling is not going to flower for at least several weeks, regardless of whether you are running a 12/12 lighting, while a 6-8 week plant should start flowering right away.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Im not sure what to believe I think what we ultimately need to research is when the marijuana plant begins to show these hormones. Are they present before environment changes or does the plant make them when the environment changes. Time to hit the Goog.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Again from Wiki, but heres a start...

"Most plants (except auto flowering strains that flower independently of photoperiod) can flower under diminished light. In nature, cannabis plants sense the forthcoming Winter as the Earth revolves around the Sun and daylight reduces in duration..."

and also...

"Indoors, cannabis is induced into flowering by decreasing its photoperiod to at least 10 hours of darkness per day. Traditionally most growers change their plants lighting cycle to 12 hours on and 12 hours off. This change in photoperiod mimics the plant's natural outdoor cycle, with up to 18 hours of light per day in the Summer and down to less than 12 hours of light in Fall and Winter.[18]

Although the flowering hormone in most plants (including cannabis) is present during all phases of growth, it is inhibited by exposure to light. To induce flowering, the plant must be subject to at least 8 hours of darkness per day; this number is very strain-specific and most growers flower with 12 hours of darkness to be safe.

The flowering hormone is very quickly inhibited, taking less than two minutes of exposure[citation needed] to light. Consequently, many cultivators are vigilant that no light reach their plants during the flowering phase. Some go as far as to research the phases of the moon to avoid exposure to the full moon during critical phases of flowering. Indoor growers often seal the growing area to make the space light tight, and are careful not to "peek" at the plants during their dark phase."

So IDK I mean it looks like the hormones are always present. This doesnt state what effect not waiting for alternate nodes does but it does seem as though the plant decides based of of environment.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

You might want to check out Clarke's "Marijuana Botany". A far better source than Wiki.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

You might want to check out Clarke's "Marijuana Botany". A far better source than Wiki.

I did THG and right in Chapter 4 First line reads

"The maturation of Cannabis is normally annual and its timing is influenced by the age of the plant, changes in photoperiod, and other environmental conditions."

So while Im not saying your wrong and yes WIKI is not the greatest place to source, but even this line clearly states, age of plant AND change in photoperiod and other environmental conditions.

If the plant simply wouldnt flower until it was a certain age, why would there be a difference between sativa/indicas and auto ruderalis?

I mean even when you look up seeds it will list when the plant will flower either based on "photoperiod" or "auto."

So it has to be true that photoperiod will induce flowering in the plants even if it hasnt decided its time. Granted this obviously will mean quality and quantity will be majorly affected but we cant state that its false.

 

[Hick]

I understand that the plant contains flowering hormones and that the light schedule triggers this...to a point. The plant must be sexually mature before it will flower regardless of the light schedule. For instance, a 2 week old seedling is not going to flower for at least several weeks, regardless of whether you are running a 12/12 lighting, while a 6-8 week plant should start flowering right away.

This is "WHY" seedlings don't flower when put outdoors in the early spring when light hours are short and clones "DO". Because the clones are already sexually mature.

So it has to be true that photoperiod will induce flowering in the plants even if it hasnt decided its time. Granted this obviously will mean quality and quantity will be majorly affected but we cant state that its false.

You can not "make" a plant that is not sexually mature flower. .You "CAN" prevent or inhibit a mature plant from flowering by keeping it under "long days".THAT is what is meant by a "photoperiod" flowering plant. It requires "short day" hours to produce the flowering hormone, faster than it is being destroyed by longer day hours.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8937 <-- flowering sticky

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Great point about the seedlings and clones. Very good point.