Bag Seed Babies!

[jbyrd]

This is "WHY" seedlings don't flower when put outdoors in the early spring when light hours are short and clones "DO". Because the clones are already sexually mature.


You can not "make" a plant that is not sexually mature flower. .You "CAN" prevent or inhibit a mature plant from flowering by keeping it under "long days".THAT is what is meant by a "photoperiod" flowering plant. It requires "short day" hours to produce the flowering hormone, faster than it is being destroyed by longer day hours.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8937 <-- flowering sticky

By the time you place plants outside in the Northern Hemisphere (usually sometime in Late April or May depending on frost, etc.) the days are already over 14 hours, which is generally the outside boundary in where any particular strain would sense a change and flip it's switch.

I've grown 12/12 from seed, the plants start flowering within the standard 14 - 21 days depending on strain. The post you referenced is just stating what was already said. Photoperiod drives the process.

I'm not trying to argue, nor am I one who thinks it's worth the time (hell...seeds aren't worth the time..lol) to grow in this manner. I'm just saying it's done, with great results and the plants do not magically wait 4 - 6 weeks to mature to start flowering.

There was old information passed around that plants grown in this manner were less potent that ones that had a proper vegetative phase, but that's been well disproved by many a grower.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Well just to maintain the vibes we got going on this joint. Teen Bud ****!
All models are at least 18 hours of age. In accordance to MP Rules and Guidelines...and you get the point.

 

[Hick]

A seedling will not flower before it is sexually mature. It's not rumor or old information.
Sexually mature clones put out under those same conditions(April/May) WILL flower.
Potency is also effected by the age/maturity of the plant. <-- from my own experience

When a plant reaches an adequate age for flowering and the nights lengthen following the summer solstice (June 21-22), flowering begins. This is the triggering of the reproductive phase of the life cycle

Many factors influence the production of THC. In general, the older a plant, the greater its potential to produce THC.

Contrary to popular thought, planting Cannabis strains later in the season in temperate latitudes may actually promote earlier flowering. Most cultivators believe that planting early gives the plant plenty of time to flower and it will finish earlier. This is often not true. Seedlings started in February or March grow for 4-5 months of increasing photoperiod before the days begin to get shorter following the solstice in June. Huge vegetative plants grow and may form floral inhibitors during the months of long photo-period. When the days begin to get shorter, these older plants may be reluctant to flower because of the floral inhibitors formed in the pre-floral leaves. Since floral cluster formation takes 6-10 weeks, the initial delay in flowering could push the harvest date into November or December. Cannabis started during the short days of December or January will often differentiate *** by March or April. Usually these plants form few floral clusters and rejuvenate for the long season ahead. No increased potency has been noticed in old rejuvenated plants. Plants started in late June or early July, after the summer solstice, are exposed only to days of decreasing photoperiod. When old enough they begin flowering immediately, possibly because they haven&#8217;t built up as many long-day floral inhibitors. They begin the 6-10 week floral period with plenty of time to finish during the warmer days of October. These later plantings yield smaller plants because they have a shorter vegetative cycle. This may prove an advantage. in greenhouse research, where it is common for plants to grow far too large for easy handling before they begin to flower. Late plantings after the summer solstice receive short inductive photoperiods almost immediately. However, flowering is delayed into September since the plant must grow before it is old enough to flower. Although flowering is delayed, the small plants rapidly produce copious quantities of flowers in a final effort to reproduce.

<-- from MJ botany

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

There was old information passed around that plants grown in this manner were less potent that ones that had a proper vegetative phase, but that's been well disproved by many a grower.

I don't want to argue either, but this is simply not true--a plant does have to be sexually mature before it will begin flowering. Time has not changed the rules of botany. A plant grown from seed will not immediately begin flowering just because it is put into a 12/12 light cycle.

 

[bho_expertz]

I think that here the question is ... When to change to 12/12 from seed.
Of course you shouldn't change it with one or two weeks old ( but i have seen ppl who does it ). But from 3 or 4 weeks old is ok. IMO.

 

[Locked]

12/12 from seed in my opinion is a waste....the plant will not flower till it is sexually mature...this is not a rumor or here say it is fact....read a book on MJ botany if you doubt it. With the exceptions of autos and running from mature clones there is no way around the wait.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

The biggest question for me is would one be able to switch to 12/12 after 3-4 weeks and then switch back once males have been removed. Only to allow for more space efficiency and to remove plants that dont need the light and other resources, and then let them veg until they are just too big. At this point 3-4 weeks I should be looking at a good 7-8 nodes, but they are going to be bushy not tall at all so while the bud spots going up the stalk are going to be dense, I wanna let them get as big as they can be too.

 

[Roddy]

Trust me, they'll stretch up in the first 3 weeks of budding....don't worry about getting bigger.

 

[jbyrd]

A seedling will not flower before it is sexually mature. It's not rumor or old information.
Sexually mature clones put out under those same conditions(April/May) WILL flower.
Potency is also effected by the age/maturity of the plant. <-- from my own experience

<-- from MJ botany

I've read books too...lol. Two paragraphs above the one you quoted in MJ Botany:

Flowering in Cannabis may be forced or accelerated by many different techniques. This does not mean that THC production is forced, only that the time before and during flowering is shortened and flowers are produced rapidly. Most techniques involve the deprivation of light during the long days of summer to promote early floral induction and sexual differentiation. This is sometimes done by moving the plants inside a completely dark structure for 12 hours of each 24-hour day until the floral clusters are mature. This stimulates an autumn light cycle and promotes flowering at any time of the year. In the field, covers may be made to block out the sun for a few hours at sunrise or sunset, and these are used to cover small plants. Photoperiod alteration is most easily accomplished in a greenhouse, where blackout curtains are easily rolled over the plants. Drug Cannabis production requires 11-12 hours of continuous darkness to induce flowering and at least 10 hours of light for adequate THC production (Valle et al. 1978). In a greenhouse, supplemental lighting need be used only to extend daylength, while the sun supplies the energy needed for growth and THC biosynthesis. It is not known why at least 10 hours (and preferably 12 or 13 hours) of light are needed for high THC production. This is not dependent on accumulated solar energy since light responses can be activated and THC production increased with only a 40-watt bulb. A reasonable theory is that a light-sensitive pigment in the plant (possibly phytochrome) acts as a switch, causing the plant to follow the flowering cycle. THC production is probably associated with the induction of flowering resulting from the photoperiod change.

Everything you've posted references outdoor, natural plant cycles. That's why we grow indoors and control our environment, so we can control and bend these cycles. I'm sorry, but we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one until my current run finishes, at which point I will grow one 12/12 from seed and journal it just to show you it can be done. A total waste of a seed, but what heck. It's all for learning and showing people what this wonderful plant can do.

Don't believe everything you read in a book. I've been growing this plant a long time and have seen many contradictions to books.

AC, the vibes are great man I love discussions about MJ and I'm not sitting here angrily typing away. I just hope that's the same for others. I didn't join MP to be a jerk, I joined to make more friends and share some knowledge. Now I'm done buggering up your journal with this discussion. lol.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Honestly I like that we all can get this info across in one place. Thats why I love these journals its the one place on the site where you can discuss everything.

Its just common that people take discussion for argument. We are all here for the same purpose. Lets just have at it.

I wouldnt waste a seed though. I have seen a 12/12 from seed and it yeilded 2 grams. LMFAO

 

[jbyrd]

Right on man, I'm glad your cool with it. The more people discuss and share about growing the more people learn.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

So does anybody have any comments on the latest pics? Any ideas? Im wondering whats up with the smallest runt. Right at her base her taproot just doesnt seem to really be getting thick like I would want it to. Im really just thinking at this point they just want their own homes. Im sure the the two giants at her sides are sucking down what she doesnt get to quick enough.

Otherwise they seem to have great color and formation. I love the fact they are staying so squat. Low lighting works if you ask me. Also the lovable one that is all branch is really bushing at the center since she can get so much light to her stalk. I thought it was so cool however even though It could have been due to defficiency, but on the 2nd node where usually one would get three fingers. This one spat out one phat wide leaf. BUT in time it has been slowly separating itself two fingers on its side. I dont think they will actually split into leaves but it looks cool I cant remember if you can see it in the pic. If not I can take one later tonight. Its the first Ive seen.

 

[jbyrd]

They look great man, except for the part of being all in the same pot :holysheep: LOL (had to throw that in there)

I would separate them now, before the roots start getting to tangled up.

 

[AlkaloidContent]

:bolt:

Yea I know I gotta get that done. Whats the biggest size pot you think I should get I would love for them to get 3 ft at most.

 

[jbyrd]

Mine are about 3' in a 3gal pot with a little more stretch left. Flowered at about 18".

 

[AlkaloidContent]

Oh okay well that seems reasonable. 3 feet after is my max comfort zone. Ill prob wait for anywhere between 7 or 8 inches up to a foot.

 

[Roddy]

Honestly I like that we all can get this info across in one place. Thats why I love these journals its the one place on the site where you can discuss everything.

Its just common that people take discussion for argument. We are all here for the same purpose. Lets just have at it.

I wouldnt waste a seed though. I have seen a 12/12 from seed and it yeilded 2 grams. LMFAO

2 grams....now that IS a waste of time...and seed!

 

[AlkaloidContent]

I mean you have to also consider all the factors. It was more or less a test run like you are speaking of so I think they were hoping it would die but they took care of it and it grew.

I mean you can go online and find all sorts of 12/12s that harvest nice like 10-15g per plant. With good seed, in a good setup, possible training of some sort, etc. So I cant say its impossible or a waste cuz I personally would love to get some great fem'd seed and 12/12 them all and get a bunch of little plants with 10-15g than to have 1 or 2 monsters with 1/8 to 1/4 lb each.

Who knows lol...

 

[dman1234]

Your plants look good AC.

but as mentioned I URGE you to separate those seedlings into their own pots, your risking damaging females during transplant later when roots are tangled.

 

[bho_expertz]

I don't want to be a bad news giver but probably they already are. With all that growth upwards downwards should be well developed aswell.

Be very very gentle ... that is my tip.