Autos or Photos?

[Surfer Joe]

Is there any consensus about the relative merits of each, or about which is best?
Is the pot quality less with autos?
Do photos need more or less precise growing techniques compared to autos?

I am planning to start my second grow soon, so it will go on through the coldest months, and I worry about having to do a 12 hour dark period with the grow tent in an unheated garage.
With the autos, I can leave the lights on even 24 hrs/day and that should help keep them from getting too cold, but I could put in a small oil radiator in during the dark period as well.

My first grow was with two auto seeds, a super skunk indica and a white diesel sativa, but I am curious about the greater variety available for photo seeds and the stronger quality potential.

 

[Locked]

For me the choice is easy. Photo. I used to grow autos and was a big supporter of them. Not anymore. I like being able to hang on to my Dank genetics and you can't do that with autos. I find the smoke from photo strains to be better as well as yields. If you run from clone you can almost match the turn around speed of autos as well. Don't see myself ever growing them again. You can run your lights on period during the coldest time and get a cheap heater if need be. Jmo

 

[Surfer Joe]

Thanks. I agree that the cold would not be a problem because I can stick a heater in the tent when it's dark time.
I didn't know what you meant by Dank so I looked it up, but I didn't recognize any of the strains, and this brings up another question.
What actual strains are good for growing?
I want to have a strong, smooth smoke, with an indica variety for the body stone and a strong psychedelic sativa variety for the head high.
My overall preference is for strong visual psychedelic effects and a head high rather than a heavy body stone.
As long as it smokes smooth, I don't really care much about any particular taste or smell. I love the smell of all pot.
I want a plant that doesn't grow too big or tall and I really only need to grow 2 or 3 plants at a time, especially if I can learn to get better yields, so I doubt that I will get into clones. I can probably only grow a couple of times a year because I am away from home at times and couldn't plan a grow if I had to be away later in the year. This is one reason for wanting a short period strain and looking at autos, but I've seen some photos that are also fairly short flowering times.
I like the convenience of the auto light cycle, since I have a small tent and could start a new plant while flowering ones in the same space.
I'm intrigued by photos, though, and by low-tech hydro methods, so I may have to try photos.

 

[Locked]

I think you want the Holy Grail..lol. I have not smoked anything that gave me actual visual psychedelic effects, I am talking like Shrooms or Acid. Maybe Autos will fit your needs then. It's hard to find a fast finishing Sativa leaning strain. Maybe Satori by Mandala? >>>http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Satori_Deluxe/Mandala_Seeds/

I think it can finish as fast as 8 weeks, it is rather short like an Indica with the effects of a Sativa. I have yet to smoke it but I have one I just flipped the other day. You still might need to do some training to keep it on the short side. Not sure what your experience level is at. Sounds like you are after a Sativa type though. Most of those are a real PITA to grow. They get tall, they flower for a ridiculously long time, some go 14+ weeks. Satori is the excpetion. You might find some hybrids that lean Sat and finish in 9-10 weeks. My absolute Favorite is Larry OG by Cali Connection. Smokes like a brick to the head if you let her go 10 weeks, little less narcotic if taken at 8-9. Yield is good but she can be a pin to train. She likes to grow like a bean pole if you don't top and LST her. >>>http://en.seedfinder.eu/strain-info/Larry_OG_Kush/The_Cali_Connection/

 

[7thG]

I started a grow of Northern Lights recently, from Nirvana Seeds. I am kinda a rookie like you so I wanted to go with something easy to grow. And also of all strains, I have probably heard the most good things about Northern Lights. Second on that list would have to be Larry OG like Hamster said. I have no experience with that though. I have also heard really good things about AK-47 from Sensi Seeds, I think you can get that through Attitude Seedbank. I would go with Photo strains because you can control more and you get more for your money. I think AK-47 is a fast finishing strain if I'm not mistaking.

Hope this helps and good luck with your selection I hope you get good results with whatever you end up picking!
:48:

btw everyone here is probably gonna tell you Photos but Autos serve a purpose if you think they are best suited for you situation go for it.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I concur with the others on running photoperiod plants rather than autos. The yield and quality of most photoperiod strains knock the socks off autos. If heat is your largest concern, well, it really doesn't matter what you are using the electricity on, you are going to have to have either lights or a heater running all the time, so electrical usage is not really an issue. If getting smoke sooner is your concern, you might consider running 1 or 2 autos and some photoperiod plants with them. When the autos are done, flip the lights and flower the photoperiod plants.

Another advantage to photoperiod plants which Hamster already mentioned is the ability to clone and save good genetics (it also saves you money)


For your up high, I highly recommend Satori. This is the description from the breeder: "A clear, cerebral high and strong potency sets in quickly; it supports concentration & creativity; very inspiring and stimulating. Ideal for writers, artists, musicians, or other creative people. Recommended for experienced smokers and if you have a high THC tolerance. Persons not used to highly psychoactive sativas should be cautious with the dosage." (though, like Hamster, I have never actually experienced visual psychedelic effects with any marijuana strain, but I am an "experienced smoker", having toked since the late 60s.)

I have found Satori easy to grow. She can easily be made to stay short and bushy. I flower for 9 weeks. I love having a strain with a great Sativa high that does not take 14 weeks to finish. I am on my first grow with Larry OG--I do love a good Kush. I personally have had a harder time finding a good Indica for me. I have a friend who crossed 2 strains that works well, but it is not available commercially.

 

[Surfer Joe]

Thank you. That's very helpful. I'm also an experienced smoker since the 60s and times sure have changed since the days of compressed bricks of Mexican pot full of stems and seeds, which we would smoke anyway once the shake was gone.
I remember visiting Amsterdam for the first time in 1986 and seeing an actual bud for the first time and it blowed me away, figuratively and literally.
I do love their northern lights but I generally try to find the best sativas that are around when I visit.

The Satori strain effects sound like what I want. I will look into it. I have not heard of it before.
I definitely want to try a photo grow but I have to plan my timing to ensure that I am around for the whole time. That is more of an issue than the temps, especially if I try the hydro bucket/with air pump method that seems to require more maintenance than soil.
If I had a bigger reservoir, such as a 40-50L plastic container with two or three plants set into the lid in mesh pots, could I get away with being gone for 3 days without getting everything all messed up?
I could get my wife to top up the liquid levels if necessary, but I can't really expect her to start measuring Ph and EC and making adjustments if necessary.
I also have lots of old fish aquarium stuff, including water pumps, so I could add a continuous drip feed to the hydro bucket system if that would give me some flexibility in maintenance.
Thanks for your advice.

 

[7greeneyes]

Auto's are good for one off's but they tend to be a bit more finicky when it comes to training or nutes.

With photo sensitives you get a copy of a copy everytime and they are tempered to higher doses of nutes. That and you control when they bloom vs. the 2-3 week grow period before auto's switch to bloom.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I leave for several days at a time frequently without any problems. If you have someone dependable to top up the res as needed, you should be fine going away for 3-5 (or more) days.

 

[Surfer Joe]

I leave for several days at a time frequently without any problems. If you have someone dependable to top up the res as needed, you should be fine going away for 3-5 (or more) days.

This is really good news for me! I thought that you had to keep checking the pH and other elements every day or risk losing the plant.
Except for the summer, when I am gone for about 6 weeks to visit my family in the US, I never need to be away for more than 3 or 4 days for a conference or workshop.
With my little soil pots this time, If I didn't water them every day, they would be wilted by the next morning.
Thanks for the good news.

 

[Surfer Joe]

Auto's are good for one off's but they tend to be a bit more finicky when it comes to training or nutes.
With photo sensitives you get a copy of a copy everytime and they are tempered to higher doses of nutes.

Thanks. I'm not sure I understand.
Are you saying that photos are more forgiving to nute variations than autos or that they need higher nute doses than autos or that you can make clones and each generation can be trained to accept more nutes?
I doubt that I would get into any cloning at this time. I don't need to grow a lot of plants and if I'm gone for over a month in the summer, I would have no way to maintaining a steady stream of plants at different stages of development throughout the year.
After I retire, I may become a more full time gardener.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

You have to be more careful with autos. They only live for a certain number of weeks so anything that slows down their growth will affect yield and potency. Whereas photoperiod plants you control the length of vegging and can give plants time to recover from stresses. Likewised, stresses in flowering will usually cause the flowering to slow down, but they usually recover.

Cuts of plants can be kept in a vegetable crisper in the fridge for a mont or so, maybe longer. You may also find once you start growing that you really like it and want to do it all the time.

 

[Locked]

Yeah I have kept cuts in my fridge for 30 days and got them to throw roots. Sounds like hydro will be best for you if you are gone for a couple days at a time. The ph normally drifts from low to high over a couple days, so if you start it out on the low end before you leave you should be golden. What kind of cash do you have to put towards genetics? Maybe we can offer up some suggestions.

 

[Surfer Joe]

Yeah I have kept cuts in my fridge for 30 days and got them to throw roots. Sounds like hydro will be best for you if you are gone for a couple days at a time. The ph normally drifts from low to high over a couple days, so if you start it out on the low end before you leave you should be golden. What kind of cash do you have to put towards genetics? Maybe we can offer up some suggestions.

Thank you. If by genetics, you mean seeds, I have only bought 6 seeds in total so far, 3 skunk feminized autos and 3 white diesel feminized autos. I still have one of each left. The price for 3 to 5 seeds is not an issue, and I don't need more since my interest is to grow 2 or 3 plants at a time.
I have spent way more so far getting the grow stuff, and I realise that some things will need replacing because they wear out (lights, meters and obviously, nutes), so for me the cost of a few seeds is nothing, especially if they yield a decent amount at harvest. I would be happy getting one oz per plant or so.
I also suspect that I'm going to try going to the hid lamps eventually instead of the cfls because they seem to be better for the plants and you don't need to have so many lights cluttering up the grow tent. But they are expensive and I will have to wait a while for that. Maybe when it's time to replace the cfls, I may move to hids.
As I look at seed information, I am conscious of plant heights and lengths of time to harvest since I have a limited space in the tent and would prefer shorter plants and shorter grow times.
But I would like to try a couple of photos just to see how it goes. I like the idea of being able to control the growth myself and would like to compare the resin and potency qualities between an auto and a photo plant.
Unfortunately, I doubt that my first grow is going to be a good example of what can be achieved with an auto because I've made so many mistakes.
If I could grow a really powerful head high strain and a good body stone strain, I would be willing to compromise on the length of time and also try to fim the plant to keep the height under some control. So I am open to any suggestions about which strains to try next. I was thinking of a northern lights auto or feminized photo and a good sativa auto or photo.

 

[Locked]

Lighting is pretty much the biggest expense early on but it pays off in yield for sure. Yes you can grow bud with cfl's but when you sit down and figure the added cost for electricity and keeping all those cfl's cool HPS is the way to go. I buy the cheapo bulbs and change them a little more often. I can't justify buying a 50-100 bulb. I rock the 31 dollar 600w HPS bulbs from 1000bulbs.com.

>>>http://www.1000bulbs.com/category/600-watt-high-pressure-sodium-lamps/

Shorter plants are going to be more in the Indica Family. Satori might be the exception to that rule. Even hybrids tend to double in height. The way around this is to get a separate space for clones and run what we call lolipops. Basically you take cuts off your Mother/Host plant, get them to throw roots, veg for like 2 weeks and then flip them. They grow a single big cola with a little bit of popcorn on the side. This helps keep height in check and you can do a bunch of them in a fairly small space. I got over an ounce per lolipop last time I did it. It's basically a SOG grow.

 

[trillions of atoms]

Photo!!!

 

[Surfer Joe]

Lighting is pretty much the biggest expense early on but it pays off in yield for sure. Yes you can grow bud with cfl's but when you sit down and figure the added cost for electricity and keeping all those cfl's cool HPS is the way to go.

I was looking at hid lighting setups with a hood and bulbs- using one for vegging (mh?) and one for flowering (hps?) and they weren't so badly priced, but I don't know what sort of wattage I should use in a small grow tent for 2-4 plants in hydro buckets.

It would be nice to eliminate the forest of cfl bulbs and have only one good light hanging above, but what size would be sufficient or possible in my small space?
The tent is 80 x 80 x 180 cm.
I was worried about too much heat in such a small space, and I can't really fit it with two extractor fans for the carbon filter and for the light cooling because of limited space. That's why I went initially with the cfls.
I have a 250 red, 125 blue and 10 other 30-35 watt bulbs about half reds and half blues, so I currently have about 700 watts of cfls in total in the tent and they are quite cool and close to the plants on top and all around.

Would one 250 or 400 watt hid bulb be good in that setup? Not enough? Too hot? Would I need more during the flowering stages? Would it be useful to throw in the two larger cfls in addition to an hid bulb?

When I looked at setups in shops, they had bigger grow tents with basically one hanging hid light, but it was probably a 1000 watt bulb. Yet it seemed less bright in there than in my tent, so maybe the lamps aren't so bright but emit better light than the cfls for plant growth.

At the moment, I am pretty much committed to using the cfls in my next grow but would like to replace them with an hid system after that if I can deal with the setup.
Otherwise, I may have to accept the fact that I will have smaller yields. I don't mind slightly smaller yields, but I would mind it if the potency was being seriously affected.
Thanks for your advice.

 

[Locked]

You need 5000 lumens per square foot for flower, 3500 lumens per square foot for veg. Those are the minimum. I use HO T5's for veg and HPS for flower. I don't use a carbon filter as I use an inline fan to pull the hot air from my tents and exhaust it out a window. The negative pressure in the tent keeps odors at bay.

 

[Surfer Joe]

You need 5000 lumens per square foot for flower, 3500 lumens per square foot for veg. Those are the minimum. I use HO T5's for veg and HPS for flower. I don't use a carbon filter as I use an inline fan to pull the hot air from my tents and exhaust it out a window. The negative pressure in the tent keeps odors at bay.

By my calculations, I currently have about 40,000 lumens in there from the cfls and the grow tent has about 7 sq. ft., so I am getting roughly about 5000 lumens/sq ft.

A 400 watt hps is about 48000 lumens and a 600 watt is about 95000 lumens, so it seems that one 400 watt hps would provide a bit more light than all of my cfls, and a 600 watt hps would give me more than twice the lumens.

I don't know if the 600 would produce too much heat for my grow tent.
Could it be passively vented? That is, just connect the exhaust hole in the lamp reflector to some ducting and stick the other end out of a top tent vent so that the heat rises naturally through the vent duct and out of the tent.

Is it also correct to assume that the amps used by either lights are the same in term of total wattage? So 600 watts of cfl bulbs is the same drain as 600 watts of hid lights?

 

[Hick]

http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54867

Its a bit long, but a pretty good discussion and information on light choices