tried, tested and true.

[ta2dguy]

kal el, that does not sound unreasonable to me at all . that sounds awesome actually. im not gonna argue with ya, im gonna give it a try and hope that i can get that much increase but will be happy with a 10 or 20% increase on overall yield. thanks for sharing that cuz i like the sounds of that. i dont grow them small so i cant say much to that with experience attached .

droopy. i would love a recipe for your soiless mix(as long as it aint a secret ) so i can have another medium to try things with, i am always up for a try at something that may increase my yield or quality. i might split the last group of seedlings into 2 with a few getting no nutes till the third set of leaves and some no nutes till the cotyledons fall off. i want to be thorough so all ideas and suggestions are welcome, even if they dont all get tried.....

also

As to strength, perhaps you could do some in 1/8, 1/4, perhaps 1/2 strength?

... from you

from me

i am going to use 5 groups of seedlings that are started in 1" rockwool cubes and transferred to 4" blocks after they have popped. i am going to start feeding them 3 days after they shed the seed casing. group 1 will get no nutes(for a period of 14-21 days), group 2 will get a 10% nutrient solution, group 3 a 25% solution. group 4 a 50% solution and group 5 will get a 100% solution. they will all get fed at the same time and they will get fed by hand for 2 weeks and then put into an auto feed setup. i am going to divide the 5 groups each in half and use a different nutrient solution on those. each group will consist of 8 seedlings, 4 fed one solution and 4 fed another. this i think is a good starting point and i am open to other input and suggestions. gotta go hit the vaporiser right now but i will be back .

this has been changed to using both a % and a ppm reading with a little help from the hemp goddess' suggestion.

happy growing.

 

[legalize_freedom]

I grow in a lil tub with all the plants crammed together.
I average 7 grams per plant. When I started chopping the large fans off, the yields increased due to more light actually hitting the buds. I increased my yield per plant up to 10.5 grams, that is a 50% increase.
I can sit and argue about it all day. Google a fellow named jrosek, he advocates this style of growing and his grows will show you.

I averaged 3 oz per plant...so your saying if I cut off my fan leaves i would have got 6 oz per plant?.....I doubt it...I doubt that I would have got the 3 0z per that I got.

If your only getting 10.5 gr per plant...I think you have alot more to worry about than leaves.

But like I always say ...to each their own!

 

[Hick]

the "buds" can NOT utilize the light..:confused2:
it's called "photosynthesis".. >---> hxxp://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html
...or "google" it.. like chopping off your fingers and handing you a chicken leg, or placing a bowl of soup in front of you and handing you a 'fork'.. You want it, need it, but just can't get it where it needs to be.

 

[Droopy Dog]

My mix is nothing special, think Pro Mix without any added nutes. In fact, my peat moss is from the same co that makes Pro Mix, but is only $12/3.8cf.

Just peat moss, perlite, pine bark nuggets and some dolomite lime. I used this for years for general nursery growing along with Jack's Classic (Peters back then).

Now, I'm doing a bit more organic and will be doing LC's Soiless Mix #1. You can find this in the Organics section, a thread called MOONSHINE MIX in a post by MULTIFARIOUS.

Since I have all the major ingredients, all I had to pick up was blood, bone, and kelp meal. My worm bin provided the castings and I have some 'cooking' now, a little over 20 gallons worth (2cf).

DD

 

[ta2dguy]

.. like chopping off your fingers and handing you a chicken leg, or placing a bowl of soup in front of you and handing you a 'fork'.. You want it, need it, but just can't get it where it needs to be.

.....

:rofl: and so true. thanks hick.

i personally like to pull the big fan leaves through the stems and stalks behind the bud sites so the sites can get maximum light and the fan leaves are still around to get any light that goes past. how much i do is also directly related to how much time i have. training and pruning a couple plants for experimenting purposes is fairly easy but trying to do it to a larger number of larger plants entails alot of work.... ALOT .

thank you very much droopydog. appreciated. im all for mixing up a batch and doing some playing sometime with the effects of different mediums and that helps alot.

happy growing.

 

[kal el]

I averaged 3 oz per plant...so your saying if I cut off my fan leaves i would have got 6 oz per plant?.....I doubt it...I doubt that I would have got the 3 0z per that I got.

If your only getting 10.5 gr per plant...I think you have alot more to worry about than leaves.

But like I always say ...to each their own!

Maybe if you would have read it better, I stated that I grow sog style in tubs. Your style is obviously different if you get 3 oz a plant, and if you double that yield it would be 100% improvement and not 25 to 50% as I did. 20+ years of growing and I am always open to new techniques, unlike some closed minded people that tell me I am wrong without showing me any proof.

 

[legalize_freedom]

I'm always open to new ideas...ecxpt butchering my plants...been there done that...and if your getting 10g per plant then I would call it more of a mud puddle of green...lol...not a sea...

If anything my theory is in the norm...it doesn't need to be prooved, it already has been time and time again ...takeing fans decreases yeilds. Your buds do not need the light...your buds need your leaves to recieve the light to preform photosythesis.

I don't have time to argue with you over this...we get this every couple of months...if you want to cut your leaves to improve your 7g to 10 g per plant lol...well be my guest.

I have grown in sea of green, and have many friends that do, but if I was only getting 10g per plant I think I'd just save my electric and go buy a bag.

I wish you all the luck buddy...my theory is allready prooven...when your ready to proove yours I'll listen with open ears!

 

[ta2dguy]

:holysheep: :48:

 

[Hick]

removing leaves is not any 'new technique',(I was tutored on the same method when I first started, some 29 years ago) and has already been debunked as a myth many times, by many growers. Including myself.
I'm not sayin that you didn't see an improvement in yeild, but I will say that it is doubtfull at best, that it was due to removal of the energy producing mechanisms.
The FACT is, the leaves are where the photosynthesis occurs by large. Photosynthesis is THE process that produces growth/energy to grow. The flowers/buds can not utilize the light to potential. Its only basic botany, science.

 

[pcduck]

:yeahthat:

But you do what you want anyways.:laugh:

 

[kal el]

ok, you win.

 

[ta2dguy]

well kal-el it is too bad that you got treated this way. i was hoping that people would not come into this thread bashing away at someone elses attempts at growing this fine plant but it appears to be happening. i myself do not doubt the words of the elders here, but i also do not doubt the words of the noobie either. i was hoping that if people were to come along and disagree with anything here that they would show up with pics and numbers and actual personal studies to prove their point instead of just saying how many times they tried or that they did it so long ago you probably were not born.

anyway, i will ask again that if there is a disagreeance with anything here or someone has the need to bash someone elses attempts that you show up with YOUR studies and YOUR results for everyone to see and read. i know that none of what is tried here is a new way but it is a way for a few growers to get together and share some ideas and some love for the plant.

kal-el, congrats on getting a 50% increase in your yield . i wish i could . even if it is only a few grams per crop, it is yours and no one elses and be proud of that accomplishment. enjoy the extra you got from your work. if you do any tests or playing kal please post it here, then when someone comes along to bash away you can pull out your proof and ask for thiers lol . good luck.

i have another week or so before i start anything cuz i have too much going now and things got messed up after i had to remove and replace everything. once a little space opens up here i will get back at it.

happy growing.

 

[Hick]

..sorry ta2d, I thought you were doing this thread to debunk, 'disprove' myths, not promote or propogate them. :confused2:
These practices probably didn't stem from someone abusing the plant and getting negative results. Most likely all origonated from someone "mis"interpretting their results or misunderstanding "why" they recieved the results.
I don't have "MY" results/studies, because I quit it over two decades ago. I quit it because I proved to myself it was NOT beneficial, did NOT improve potency, yeild, vigor, flowering, nor anything else. It actually stunts growth and forces the plants to form more leaves to provide for sufficient photosynthesis...
I never "bashed" anyone. I simply posted scientific evidence contrary to "the myth". I can find you a dozen more links to 'factual' scientific evidence if need be. I thought that was the goal here..."FACTS"/"TRUTH"....
"YOU" started a thread that is without doubt, going to recieve a multitude of opinions, experiences, and theories. They aren't going to ALL coincide or agree. "I" am never going to agree that removing the leaves where the bulk of the photosynthesis is occurring, is going to "improve" or "benefit" the plant. Kal' may never agree with me. BUT.. "scientific" fact will at least allow an undecided reader to make an educated descision based on weighing the evidence.

 

[ta2dguy]

i dunno if you always got the right to say hick (most of the times i see you do tho ) but you sure do say it well. i wish i had half the vocabulary you have and some of the puttin it together skills you got . again you are right here... kinda . i am trying to prove whether certain things(myths) are true or not but i think they can be done without the discouragement of others. i can take all kindsa crap from anyone who wants to dish it out but others cannot.... kinda like plants lol. i understand that there are going to be plenty of differing opinions on just about everything in this thread i am just hoping that people will bring thier proof along with thier words. i have tested most everything over the years as well but without any proper documentation and a memory with 30 years of tokin behind it i would not expect someone to believe me on words alone unless i thought myself better than them and that they should for some reason believe in and follow my ways. i am not that guy. i hope there can be a ton of information and discussions in this thread and maybe everyone can learn something. if not i suggest there be "this is the only way" thread started and see how the discussions go there .

i dont want to start no crap or step on toes i just wanna grow and play a little along the way. and btw, i would love to increase my yield by an average of 35% and i will do whatever it takes to get it. show me the way . SHOW me the proof.

happy growing.

 

[Hick]

people will bring thier proof along with thier words.

Scientific data isn't "proof"?..

can be done without the discouragement of others.

Posting factual evidence in contrary to someone elses 'beliefe' or opinion, isn't meant to "discourage" anyone from making their own observation or judgement. Quite the contrary. It is intended to "educate" them, so they are able to form a reasonably informed/educated opinion.
I never "dished out" any crap to anyone. I never accused anyone of "purposely" misleading or lying about their results. ALL that I have done, is posted "my" experience along with scientific evidence to support it.. Anyone is free to "prove" it incorrect. BUT, mind you, they will also be trying to dis-prove botanical science.

 

[pcduck]

Some/Most myths have a bit of truth behind them, misinformation has none.

The trimming of leaves to improve yields is misinformation, not a myth. IMO

 

[ta2dguy]

ok, scientific data is proof. lets see the scientific data that you have from your own tests that prove or disprove the theory. as i said before i hoped this would not become the kinda thread that people just throw out quotes from books or tell how it is cuz science dictates or share their experiences without the proof. i would like to see the numbers and pics of your testing, that is what this thread is for. SHOW me how and why it worked for you. SHOW me the pics of the 6 plants that had various amounts of fan leaves removed so i(and everyone else) can make a reasonable, informed and educated decision. i know very well that a plant needs its leaves to grow a certain way in nature. i dont know that nature intended the plant to grow the biggest fattest buds it can like i want it to. i am not sure that the selective removal of a certain number of fan leaves wont make the plant grow the way i want it to and not the way nature intended. no one here has yet to show the studies that prove it doesnt work but there are alot of people ready to say it doesnt work for various reasons. someone once said that the plant need a rest period and not to grow it on a 24/7 light cycle and then 20 somethin years later he changes his mind and then says that he cant find any data or reasoning not to grow them on a 24/7 light cycle. you would think that a plant would perform better under natural conditions but apparently not.

anyway, things are starting heat up again i love it.i am going back to the volcano for a blast. happy growing to everyone.

 

[Hick]

..I mucked it up 20 years ago and learned my lesson. To repeat it would be pretty stupid "IMO".. to allow others to repeat my experience without at least attempting to point them in the 'right' direction, would be irresponsible.
I should wreck a current grow in an attempt to "prove" to you, what I already know???..
I think it was the famous cowboy philosopher Will Rogers once said it best.. "There are three kinds of men. The one that learns by reading. The few who learn by observation. The rest of them have to pee on the electric fence for themselves.".....

 

[pcduck]

After so much scientific data is accumulated supporting the idea, it just becomes fact. Without the need to supply data each time the subject is discussed. Just like a tongue on a frozen metal pole, we know it will stick to the pole without having to prove it every time.

 

[legalize_freedom]

Ta2...I was not bashing, I was trying to keep any newbies from getting some bogus info. I'm sorry that it took place in your thread, but I'm not going to let a comment go by unchecked that may end up being detrimental to new growers.

When someone makes a statement that cutting leaves gave them a 30-50% increase in yeild....well, I feel obligated to say that their increase in yeild more than likely stemmed from some other factor...and not from trimming leaves. I would have left it at that except that someone else decided they wanted to argue the point...which is fine, it just happened to be here in your thread. Like I said I'm sorry that it took place here, and I was in no way bashing anyone...I was stateing facts for any new growers to not make similar mistakes I have made.

As far as proof....I'm not about to cut leaves off my plants to proove to anyone that it is harmful. I have pics of my plants unmolested on this site, in fact there is a link to them here in my sig. I'll leave the takeing off of leaves to the new growers, who for some reason feel the need to do it even when people who have tried it and say it doesn't work tell them not to. My guess is that when your dealing with yeilds so minute to begin with it would be hard not to get a 50% improvement...at least I would hope. But the increase did not come from takeing leaves.

I'll leave your thread alone now, as I'm not willing to put my plants under less than optimal conditions...to proove things that have already been prooven time and time again. I learned from mistakes, and watching others make mistakes...not intentionally harming plants to see why, or how things work