pH issue

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thanks mindz

it's a 400 watt metal halide bulb 16 inches from the tops of the plants.
 
yes, there's a scubber that feeds via a duct to the light and then from the light outside of the tent into my crawl space under the house. the temp stays at about 77 degrees in there. before that was installed the temps were well over 90 when i was testing the climate. i will move the lights a little lower.

they are supposed to be white widow, but it could be white widow crossed with something else...who knows...doesnt really matter to me as long the buds are big and high is long lol

i think i'm going to give these guys prolly around 2 more weeks and then switch them to 12/12
 
surreptitious,

Amen to who cares what the variety really is so long as they give good yield and good smokes!

It looks like your coming along pretty good. Good luck and remember these plants grew wild nearly all over the world for eons without fancy nutrients, PHed water, HID lights, so if you are careful not to go to extremes, the most you will do is to cut down the yield or the high, maybe both.

Pepper and Mindzeye are both correct and both wrong. There is a place for seat of the pants growing and trial and error BUT there is also a place for using "crutches/aids" like meters special nutrients and the experiences of others. Personally I'm too old to learn enough to not need the crutches. I doubt if I'll live long enough to walk without them and I know I'll never cease to seek the benefits of other's experiences. However, I do NOT advocate blindly following any one's advice if it doesn't make sense to me.

I'm a firm believer in listening to the scientists so long as it makes sense. I also seek the advice of the manufacturer of the products I choose to use as a starting point. After all they are there to both make a good product but to sell them too. If they just kick their prices up and tell you the wrong way to use them, then they soon start loosing customers to companies that make less expensive products and tell you the correct way to use them. I have some very experienced friends that have nearly identical operations, grow from the same cloned grandmothers but us different nute lines. One spends in the neighborhood of $1000 per cycle (I believe he is using AN), another one spending around $500 per cycle (I think he uses either Bonticare or GH) and another spending around $50 per cycle using FHD nutrients. All threeare growing 10 plants per cycle, and on the average they all get within 10% of the same yield and I can't tell you who grew the stuff when I smoke it unless I already know. Now I have no complaint on how someone wants to spend their money, BUT I'm sure as heck going to try the FDH before the other more expensive lines. I also have made it a practice to to contact the manufacturer directly and ask them directly, which of your products are necessary and which ones make the biggest difference for the dollar spent. I also ask questions like how does the media effect your advice. Right now I'm uisng only FHD's 3 part basic nutrients until I get more money and can start using other of their products and I'm amazed the difference it has made in my plants being grown side by side from the same mothers in both our scratch dirt and black gold. I am about to stat into WaterFarm hydro and wil guarantee you that I will start with the FHD until I get a lot more picky about my weed and a lot more money available. I'm convinced from watching the various forums and my personal acquaintances that YOUR TECHNIQUE IS A LOT MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR CHOICE OF NUTRIENTS, YOUR CHOICE OF LIGHT, OR YOUR CHOICE OF MANY DIFFERENT ITEMS THAT GO INTO THE OPERATIONS! I have known people who get absolutely out standing yields with killer smoke in the most primitive operations with the most far fetched sounding nutrients and techniques and others that have the cutting edge of every thing including the most "in" nutrients that can't get half of the yield that the primitive grower gets and their weed is less than half as good as the primitive guys. It seems like the difference is the degree of loving care that the plants are given, but I've seen some growers just scatter seeds in moist sub-irrigate areas, walk away from it and come back when they theink it is harvest time, chop them down, dry them and smoke them and have good yields with killer smoke.

Don't be afraid to ask questions, read the forums regularly to get a feel for the different posters and THINK about every thing you read before you try it and you will do great. There is more knowledge on these forums than any one person can ever learn. Personally I tend to be more acepting of thow e posters who aren't always insisting that their way is the best or only way.

Good smoking and remember it is hard to get bad smoke, it is just some is better than others.
 
MindzEye said:
Im not trying to get into a "pissing contest", I just notice you regularly undermine some of the experienced growers on this site... Its like your saying if its not your way it isnt the right way.. So lets all dismiss what scientists with degrees that do this for a living say, we will all listen to you so teach away wise one! I will step out of "your" thread now and let you have center stage!



Please do not take me the wrong way. Im am not a know it all nobody knows it all, I'm old school, I have been a farmer for over 20 years, I am also a legal medical patient and a caregiver such as yourself.
And this is not my thread and it never was, I am trying to teach the man the correct way to grow, sort of like baking a cake from scratch versus baking a cake from a box that is already pre mixed.
 
surreptitious said:
pictures attached as promised. you can still see some leaves that have the burnt tips.


Very nice great job. Can you take a close up of the plants I can not really tell the shade of green they are, it looks like you may not need to bump the nutes to 20ml per galon, it looks like you may just need to add the cal mag plus but let me see a close up first.
 
surreptitious said:
thanks mindz

it's a 400 watt metal halide bulb 16 inches from the tops of the plants.


You can drop the ligh, to the point were you still have good coverage of your cannopy and if you put your hand over the cannopy for a minute or so your hand does not feel uncorfurtable, 12" may be the sweet spot give it a try.
 
Pepper said:
I'm trying to teach the man that started this thread the proper way to grow a graden, by learning out to read the plants, and not by following company charts or by using fancy meters that are nothing but a waist of money.

I think it is easier to read a waste of money meter than it is for a beginner to read a plant. By the time most beginners have read their plants in DWC the damage may already be done. Especially when it comes to ph. My suggestion is to get that waste of money meter, correlate what you read with what your plant is doing and become a successful and experience grower and not a trial n error ex-grower.

Pepper it is great that you have enough knowledge and experience to be able to read your garden, but to say it is easier, then to read a meter, is just false. While yes a newbie may see a light green and think they need more nitrogen which would be correct but is the reason they need more nitrogen because of consumption or because of nutrient lock out due to ph? I think a waste of money ph meter would be able to tell them their answer pretty quick. Just my $0.02
 
pcduck said:
I think it is easier to read a waste of money meter than it is for a beginner to read a plant. By the time most beginners have read their plants in DWC the damage may already be done. Especially when it comes to ph. My suggestion is to get that waste of money meter, correlate what you read with what your plant is doing and become a successful and experience grower and not a trial n error ex-grower.

Pepper it is great that you have enough knowledge and experience to be able to read your garden, but to say it is easier, then to read a meter, is just false. While yes a newbie may see a light green and think they need more nitrogen which would be correct but is the reason they need more nitrogen because of consumption or because of nutrient lock out due to ph? I think a waste of money ph meter would be able to tell them their answer pretty quick. Just my $0.02



You are correct. I never told the man a ph meter was a waist of money, I was talking about ppm/ec meters.
 
ah the formula i posted was not from bottle and yes you can tweek it but if you follow it and tweek very little you b fine. have you tried that formula ?i have with 12 diffrent strains seems to work for me and many others here on mp
 
i appreciate everybody's help and words of encouragement. i could not have done any of this without your help.

like mindzeye said before i wish i had followed GH's schedule precisely before i tried doing my own thing. for my next cycle i'm going to follow it exactly and go from there. i'll do a grow log in the correct location on the forum for this.

dr. pyro: the schedule you posted looks good, but i'm not using the 3 part GH nutes, i'm using the 2 part flora nova series. i think i'll try the 3 part in the future.

i will post of close pics of the ladies tomorrow morning.

thanks again!
 
attached are some close up pictures. it seems that more leaves are getting that burnt tip. should i increase my nutes to 20ml / gallon?

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Yes.
And has soon has you receive the cal mag plus, add that at 5ml per galon.
Using distiled water or ro water cal mag plus is a must in hydroponics.
 
MindzEye said:
If your getting burnt tips with leaves curling down increasing the nutes would be the wrong thing to do, it looks to me like you have minor nute burn I would back off the nutes a little and wait for the plants to get bigger before increasing the nutes again... Cal-Mag is a great nutrient and I use it also, I have used floraNova and I noticed it lacks in the mag department... What are your night time temps? Somtimes that light green in the middle of the growth can mean its getting a little too cold..

69.9 degrees farenheit is the lowest the temp gets in there and the highest being 80 degrees.

the burnt tips are not curling down. the problem with backing off the nutes is that my pH will go crazy.
 
MindzEye said:
How much nutes are you using per gallon? And if your temps are right then i would say your getting a mag def.. When you say the leaves tips are beginning to burn are you talking about old growth towards the bottom or newer growth towards the top of the plant? I dont see any burnt tips on the new growth....

older leaves towards the bottom.
 
MindzEye said:
I took a closer look at your pics and on your new growth Im still seeing signs of a PH issue and a mag def... I edited some of your pics an circled the problem areas i can see on the newer growth so that you can learn what to look for.. PH issues are circled in Red and Mag problems in Blue. Some of your Mag problems may be because of the PH issue..

thank you for that! but my pH ranges from 5.4 to 6.1...that is the opitimal range right?

so, the cal-mag will help? i did order some and it should be here tomorrow.
 
surreptitious said:
thank you for that! but my pH ranges from 5.4 to 6.1...that is the opitimal range right?

so, the cal-mag will help? i did order some and it should be here tomorrow.


Your ph is fine, no need to worry. Your ph is not causing nute lockout because your ph is on point, and do not lower your nutes, you do not have nute burn and you never did I believe I already said that before to, you should raise your nutes to 20ml per galon has you were going to, remember that your garden should be the same color green has Mother Nature out your window :D a nice rich green.

Are you now starting to understand that growing from "scratch" is much more dificult than following a chart? If so that is good, and this grow will teach you to become a farmer from "scratch" and trust me not to may people these days can do that because they get "lost" if they dont have a chart to go by, your garden is your chart it will tell you what it needs and does not need, you are learning at a prety good rate I must say.

In the first page of this thread I posted that you had a K deficiency, and you still do, go back to the first page and read it.
Tap water contains minerals and if using tap water that is not hard one may be able to get away without using cal mag, BUT distiled water or ro water contain nothing, therefore cal mag must be used because hydroponic nutes do not contain enouth minerals in them to support an mj garden.
 
get your ph right first before doing anything.

5.4 is on the low side. 6.1 is to high. 5.8 is what you want. If you are having wild ph fluctuations in your nutes, I would have to ask what are you using for ph adjustment and how are you mixing your nutes? A plant that is feeding normal should raise ph slightly. Are you allowing the buffers in your water to take effect before adjusting? IMO throwing more nutes/additives at a problem without proper ph is compounding the problem. Even in nature plants are not perfect, leaves yellow and die, do not form properly, ect.
 
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see all that above look at the post count i shouldnt have to say any more.. but i will look at his posts. duck here is a very experienced grower. for the love of god please take his advice
 
ok, you guys have given me a lot of info in a short time, i will try to answer all the questions.
 
MindzEye said:
The older leaves that are damaged will curl up and die then fall off, once the damage is done it cant be reversed.. Always look to the new growth for signs of burn and deficiency.




5.4 is out of range, your plants wont start to absorb magnesium until 5.8 PH and 6.1 is barely out of range... 5.8 is the optimal range not higher and not lower..

Refer to this Ph chart it may clear some things up

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1833&d=1141100090

what i meant was that my pH starts at about 5.4 or 5.5 and then slowly raises to 6.1-6.2 over about a week and half...then i've been changing the nutes out and starting with a fresh batch. before pepper suggested that i add more nutes my pH would swing from 5.5 to 7 in a matter of hours.
 

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