pH issue

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i do not adjust the pH of my base water while dechlorinating. i let it dechlorinate for 24 hours, then i add nutes, then i adjust pH.

i'm pretty sure my pH tester is functioning correctly. i use a buffer solution to calibrate it about once a week or so.

so, what your saying is you pH balance the water while it dechlorinates and then add nutes and pH balance again?

i'm using GH's pH up and pH down to adjust pH.
 
surreptitious,

I'm using the fish tank dye tester and can only test clear solutions,however I have had the fresh solutions PHed using a meter and they aren't changing much from the 6.0 that I start out with for treated water. I only mix enough solution for one feeding at a time so they are always fresh. I run the tap water, which is 7.0 all the time here on city water, into 1 gallon milk jugs using the spray nozzle on the kitchen sink to try to get more aeration to it, add the diluted acid, cap it, shake the crap out of it to further aerate the water as well as mixing the acid more evenly and then take the lids off and let them set. Then I random test them to make sure nothing has changed since the last watering.

Then I mix the solution that includes Superthrive, Alaska Fish Fertilizer, Alaska Morebloom in varying amounts all the time and then after about 2 weeks in flower I also add CNS 17 Ripe until about week 5 or 6, then I switch to only the CNS 17 until I switch them to just water. I also use Emerald Triangle's additives as directed. This is for dirt type soil.

I'm in the process of transitioning to Future Harvest Development's nute and additives line because our present system is not going to work in hydro of any kind. Not only that, I'm tired of the smell of the fish fertilizer!
 
surreptitious said:
got another question pepper. it's been a day or two since i bumped up the nutes to 800. the pH is still rising, but it's much slower. after 2 days it has raised from 5.9 to 6.4 or so.

should i increase the PPM now? or should I wait a few days?

thanks


If your ph has not become stable yet you can bump your ppms to 1000, if its still rising bump up to 1200 and continue to do so until your initial ph is at 5.2 + or - and finish at 5.8/6.0 and that drift should take about 2wks.
 
i bumped it up to 1100 and i'm getting a drift of from 5.2 to 6.0 in 4 days. i'll be bumping it up again.
 
surreptitious said:
i bumped it up to 1100 and i'm getting a drift of from 5.2 to 6.0 in 4 days. i'll be bumping it up again.


I see that you are a fart smeller sorry I mean smart fella :D

You are cacthing on that is good ;) my guess and dont go by this but I'm thinking 1600 ppm + or - for your ph to become stable. Dont forget updates with pics :D
 
pepper: attached are some pictures. still need work, but they are getting better and this experience will make my next crop a better one.

i believe that after all this work...this will be the best stoned experience ever lol. who said potheads were lazy?

what i find odd is that i've done a lot of reading about this topic. especially hydroponics and i have not seen anybody say that if your pH drifts too fast up that you might not be feeding them enough.

i think part of the problem with me is that i have read a lot where people say over feeding your plants is the source of a lot of people's issues. i didnt want to overdue it. and in that, i under did it.

anyways. thanks again for your help. i'll keep you posted with some more pics soon.

IMG_0004.JPG


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IMG_0006.JPG


IMG_0007.JPG
 
oh, also, if you compare these pictures to the old ones...i've rotated them

i took the ones on the left and put them in the middle and the ones on the right i put on the left.
 
hydroton does raise your ph at first dont know why you say it dont. it did for me and hundreds of others on this board.cmd you are correct on the ph with hydroton.the reason you ph swings is the nute contant in water to low of nutes you ph will rise quickly to unacceptable levels. to much nutes and you get low ph. finding the balance point is what you need to do for your type of grow.acceptable ph for hydro is like 5.4-5.9. anyhting outside these level you will have a lockout of anynumber of things. there is a chart on here that shows what is picked up at certain levels. thast why alittle flucuations between 5.4-5.9 is good. i to have battled ph issues in hydro for 2-3 months now my ph stays between 5.4 5.9 i add nothing for ph up or down.
 
what line of nutes you using i have a proven formula that works great but its for gh here it is any way i do not take credit for this i found it awhile back. there was more to it but i cut the part you reall need hope this helps.


So OK - feeding schedule week by week. This is the GH weekly feeding program, slightly tweaked. I will only call out the volume of each part per gallon of water in the following manner: grow, micro, bloom, ppm range. Example - 5-2.5-2.5-400/800 would mean 5 ml grow, 2.5 ml micro, 2.5 ml bloom and a ppm of 400-880. Remember it's per gallon. You Euro's can easily convert to liters. 4 liters is just a little bit over 1 gallon. It should also be noted that I use the hardwater micro due to my tapwater. I suggest using the hardwater micro in place of the regular micro if your tap water is over 200 ppm total or you have over 70 ppm Ca. RO water users should use the regular micro.

Veg
week 1 5-2.5-2.5-400/600
week 2 10-5-3- 600/800
week 3 12-6-3 800/1000 (continue week 3 formula if additional veg time is required.)

Bloom
week 1 6-6-10- 800/1200
week 2 3-7-12 - 1000/1400
week 3 3-8-14 - 1000/1400
week 4 3-8-16 - 1000/1400
week 5 (discussed in detail below*)
week 6 0-7-20 - 1000/1400
week 7 0-6-20 (see bleow**)

* During week 5 if not using a booster like Superbud, Bushmaster Kabloom etc. run 2.5-7-18. I use MOAB (Mother of All Blooms) or BushMaster at 50% of recommended strength, and use 1.25-3.5-9 for the fert base.

**If running an 8 week strain you should only run the ferts during week 7 for a maximum of 3-4 days. This gives you 10 days for flushing.

The ppms work out almost exactly. I tend to lean toward the lower side of the range, unless I have a really heavy feeder that I know can handle it.

At every ressy change out I add in 5 drops per gallon of 35% food grade H2O2. During flush use ph adjusted water at 5.5-6.0
I will add epsom salt at week 1 of bloom if the plants are heavy feeders AND I see signs of an Mg def. Otherwise I won't use it. The only time I have ever had Mg def is during transition. The GH 3 part is a little low on Mg, but the PBP and Canna nutes are way lower.

Now- how to control your PH...
There are a couple factors that cause your PH to drift. The most common is running the nute solution too strong or too weak. If it's too strong, your PH drops. If it's too weak the PH rises. You have to find the balance point. If you find that the formula above is say, a little strong, and say you have a 20 gallon ressy, mix the nutes for 18 gallons. If it's a little weak, mix it for 22 gallons. You follow?
The other common mistake is mixing your nutrient solution and trying to adjust the PH right away. You have to allow time for the ph buffers in the nutrient solution to do their job. Mix the nutes up, and bubble or circulate for 12 hours before even looking at your PH. You will find the PH to be almost right on target.
I use little or no ph adjusters. (Except during flush). I use tap water, with a starting PPM of 300-400 and a starting PH of 7.4-9.0 (Thats crazy you say! The water is too hard, you will never get stable PH and you will have too much Ca, causing a lockout of Mg!) Bollocks I say.
Every week, on Friday I drain the ressy and fill with plain water. I let that run overnight giving the plants a little flush. This also allows the chlorine and ammonia to evap. On Saturday morning, I mix the nutes into the ressy. I DO NOT adjust ph at this time. Let that run as is overnight. On Sunday morning, I check ph and adjust if needed. Usually don't have to.
Doing things this way has saved me from constant PH drifts, and using about 150 ml of ph down every ressy change, and a little here and there throughout the week to keep it in the desired range. Now, the most I ever have to use is about 30 ml.if any at all. (I have a 35 gallon ressy btw) My Ph stays at a constant 5
 
what is your base ppm for your tap water?are you filtering this water?
 
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1908

check these charts
you wanna get your nutes to the point where i just starts to burn them then back off a tad and keep it there. i have ww to but im in flower now running 1600 ppm @ .7 coversion factor when in veg i ran 1400 with no problems. make not to all these factors. i keep a notebook with weekly details temp,ppm nutes added etc. then when you grow again you have a god baseline down then do alittle more tweeking it takes time.
 
MindzEye said:
surreptitious- Im not trying to be mean here in anyway, Im actually trying to help because I was having PH issues also...

I notice in the first post in this thread with pics was posted on 10-11.. Your plants have not grown much since then... maybe 2-3 nodes... I think your having other issues with your set up.

Look at my grow journal the link is in my signature.. My plants grew from the size of yours to bushes in 3 weeks.. You should have a much faster growth rate than that..

i read your journal. you are right. mine have not taken off like yours. in fact, your grow pisses me off because you mention how easy hydro is compared to soil and i feel like i've been working my butt off with poor results. no offense to you, your plants look awesome.

you mentioned on the first post of your journal that you use "Nutes for my grow are Flora Nova, Flora Blend, Flouralicios plus, Cal-Mag, and Kool Bloom.." but you dont mention what PPM of what nutes you used from the beginning.

it seems there is much conflicting information on what works. what works for you might not work for me.

what's more baffling for me is that i have an almost identical setup for my mothers and they are over 4ft tall. the only difference is my lights. my mothers are getting T-5 flouros and these new clones are getting MH light.


i am, however, still open to suggestions.
 
dr pyro said:
what is your base ppm for your tap water?are you filtering this water?

it's 300-400 PPM, not filtering. i let it sit for at least 24 hours before adding nutes and putting itthe res.
 
your tap is putting out 300-400 ppm? wow dude get a filter.you need a low baseline. i have no def and im 6 week into flower. us ethe formula i provided i'm telling you it works without a doubt get your filter get those ppm up there you should be pushin 1000-1400 ppm in veg you will notice a diffrence in new growth fast.
 
letting it sit just evaporates chloramine it does nothing for the other crap in your water. you need to get your water before mix to below 100 the closer to 0 the better and ro/di or just ro should get you to 0 with no problems.
 
like i said i have no def at all. i add no ph up or down at all.i did before i tried this formula. dont raise your ppm anymore than 200 ppm at a shot wait 3 to 4 days then another 200 watch your growth for nute burn if no signs add more nutes.like the formula says if you mix for 5 gal and your solution is to weak your ph will jump past your desired levels. then just use 6 gallon ratios but your still using 5 gal water. watch again ph goes up again mix ratios for 7 gal but still keep 5 gal water. the same goes for if its to strong your ph will be at 5.0 if it stays that low for say 3to 5 hrs then you need to use 4 gal ratios for the 5 gal water you follow. when you figure this out i can gaurantee your ph will not drift if you keep the res topped with right ratio solution.hydro is so much easier than dirt you just gotta get dialed in.
 
what type of ppm meter you have and ph meter
 
dr pyro said:
I use little or no ph adjusters. (Except during flush). I use tap water, with a starting PPM of 300-400 and a starting PH of 7.4-9.0 (Thats crazy you say! The water is too hard, you will never get stable PH and you will have too much Ca, causing a lockout of Mg!)

dr pyro said:
your tap is putting out 300-400 ppm? wow dude get a filter.you need a low baseline. i have no def and im 6 week into flower. us ethe formula i provided i'm telling you it works without a doubt get your filter get those ppm up there you should be pushin 1000-1400 ppm in veg you will notice a diffrence in new growth fast.

i dont follow.
 
Hey Surrep...

I've been waiting to post this until I was sure:

Pepper is dead on right..

I had a ridiculous drift in my pH every day..I mean I would adjust it at night to 5.8 and by the next night it would be 6.8 or so....

I started bumping the nutes up gradually (by 200 ppms every 5 days or so)and sure enough, my pH has stabilized...

I would be quick to attribute this to the passage of time or maybe a different part of the plant's life cycle or whatever,


but this problem has persisted throughout....

until I started manipulating the ppms with respect to the pH...

give it a few days, but you're on the right track fo sho!!
 

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