bubble system vs. others

[sicnarf]

I was reading up on bubble systems. Are they as efficent as, let say, ebb and flow? Or are they not as good drip sytems. Any clarifications on this bubble sytem and how it matches up to other hyrdoponic sytems would be intense!

 

[Eggman]

Is a bubble system like a Deep Water Culture? If that's the case, do it man, it rocks, or, it's a good way to grow.

 

[sicnarf]

I have no idea. I asume it's the same :/

 

[Stoney Bud]

I was reading up on bubble systems. Are they as efficent as, let say, ebb and flow? Or are they not as good drip sytems. Any clarifications on this bubble sytem and how it matches up to other hyrdoponic sytems would be intense!

Easily compared.

Best: Aeroponics (Lot's of problems possible)

Second best: Ebb and Flow (A 10 year old could use one.)

Third best: Drip (Lots of problems possible)

Bubble systems apparently have evolved dramatically since I last used one. I'll have to check into that type of growing method again to update my own knowledge.

"Massproducer" is current on the setup and use of a DWC system and can fill you in on all of the most recent developments in this technique. I'll piggy-back your information gathering on DWC. I'm very curious myself.

Hey, IMHO, an Ebb and Flow is the best hydro system there is when all factors are considered. Others have their favorites as well. MassProducer swears by the DWC system and is of the opinion that it is a better system than Ebb and Flow.

I'm already set up for full Ebb and Flow grow rooms and without giving up my bedroom, I don't have any more room left for expermentation. I wish I did. I'd like to set up a DWC unit such as MassProducer uses and see what I've missed in my education.

 

[Stoney Bud]

Is a bubble system like a Deep Water Culture? If that's the case, do it man, it rocks, or, it's a good way to grow.

What's "Deep Water Culture?

 

[Weeddog]

DWC is a bubbling bucket... I can harvest a pound off one plant in 8 weeks using a bubbler. I think they rock. But then its the only way I have tried in hydro... Its far better than soil, and I think its the easiest.

 

[sicnarf]

I would add so many air pumps in my system the water would look so fizzy form all the bubbles. Picking the hydro method to start with is tuff stuff..lol

 

[Stoney Bud]

DWC is a bubbling bucket... I can harvest a pound off one plant in 8 weeks using a bubbler. I think they rock. But then its the only way I have tried in hydro... Its far better than soil, and I think its the easiest.

Hey man, I'm a fast learner. I want to hear how you get a LB of weed off one plant from seedling to final flower in 8 weeks.

Dude, I'm serious. You tell me how to do that and I'll scream your fame from the roof of my house. WEEDDOG, WEEDDOG, WEEDDOG!!!!!!!

Dig this man; the Aztecs used a method of what you call Deep Water Culture. They would plant gardens on rafts of reeds and others would beat the water with fronds. It's believed that this is the very first form of Hydroponics. The surface of the pond would be an oxygen collector and the constant beating of fronds on the surface between the plants probably oxygenated the water a bit more. The rapid air movement was also good on several levels. It reduced the insect level and it's said that it might as well have limited the number of sicknesses from mosquito bites. A dude with a name about a yard long that started with a "Tahtz" or something like that, was the head cheese. He told everyone they had to do the air thing and the gardens of his kingdom were supposed to be known throughout the world at that time. Slaves were used on the rafts to move, raise and lower the plants, depending on the type of plant and it's needs. They would spend their entire life on the raft, working the plants. Then, the Spanish came and brought the pox. Wiped the Aztecs out. Totally.

A bubble pot method is good way to grow. It does reasonably well. An Ebb and Flow takes it several steps further by maximising the aeration of the water and taking it to the root system between periods of fully enveloping the roots in an oxygen atmosphere. This method of full delivery of both oxygen rich water and nutrients inter-spaced with a 100% humidity root area bathed in fresh oxygen is the 2nd best known, 2nd most widely used and the 2nd most productive form of Hydroponics ever used for a cost effective crop.

The first is what's known as NFT, or Nutrient Flow Technique. The US Army supported it's troops in the Aleutian Islands by using NFT in sand beds with waterproofed canvas tarps filled with wood chips and sand. The pits were sloped just a few degrees to create flow. An organic mixture was pumped to the top, 24 hours each day. If it rained, they would cover the growing areas to prevent damage to the crops.

That was the first time in history that hydroponics was used in that manner. By the Army yet.... Who'd figure.

There's a method used in Italy that's I've always wanted to try. They take canvas bags about 8 feet long and two feet wide and hang them filled with a peat, vermiculite, perlite mixture and regulate a fast drip through the bag from the top. The flow is adjusted so that only a tiny amount is collected and returned to the reservoir. Tomatoes mostly. Had some awesome pics in a book I read somewhere. Looked like giant tomato bushes. The plants were spaced about 6 inches apart through eyelets in the canvas. 360 degrees around the bag from top to bottom. Truly awesome looking.

Edit: I think it was in a book that is considered by most professionals in Hydroponics to be the "Bible" of Hydroponics; Hydroponic Food Production: A Definitive Guidebook of Soilless Food-Growing Methods (Hardcover) by Howard M., Ph.D. Resh . It was about twenty years or more ago in it's first edition. Maybe it's still in it. It's on it's sixth edition. The books second edition was like 20 years after the first if I remember right. I think the photos of the Italian tomatoe process was in that book.

Please tell me how to do what you've described. A pound of weed on one plant in 8 weeks using ANY method would fascinate me. Holy Crap! This I want to learn.

 

[Eggman]

Th eonly reason I know of Deep Water Culture is my friend just got 6 ounces from 1 or two plants with a HPS 400!!!!! ******!

 

[Stoney Bud]

Th eonly reason I know of Deep Water Culture is my friend just got 6 ounces from 1 or two plants with a HPS 400!!!!! ******!

Heh, heh..That *******! Just kiddin.

6-8 oz's from two plants in a bubbler system w/a 400 HPS is about right IMHO. Of course, using current technology and nutrients, it may be able to produce even more than that. MassProducer is the person you'd have to ask about that. He's more up-to-date on DWC than I am.

You can double the 8 oz output of the system your buddy is using with an Ebb and Flow if you have the area for two plants that cover a 5 x 5 foot area.

The nutrient delivery of an Ebb and Flow is truly awesome. It'll support as many plants as you can conceivably get the roots into it's chamber without pushing the rock out, (I've done that).

I had 6 plants in a 12 x 12 room that filled it. I had to low crawl into the part of the plants I wanted to mess with and then stand up very carefully, work and then repeat the process. I got 5 pounds off that one six times before I got bored with the strain I kept cycling.

 

[sicnarf]

I think I'm going with ebb and flow.
I like the fact that you can grow more plants in a smaller area, hopefuly using less watts.

 

[Weeddog]

Hey man, I'm a fast learner. I want to hear how you get a LB of weed off one plant from seedling to final flower in 8 weeks.

Dude, I'm serious. You tell me how to do that and I'll scream your fame from the roof of my house. WEEDDOG, WEEDDOG, WEEDDOG!!!!!!!

Please tell me how to do what you've described. A pound of weed on one plant in 8 weeks using ANY method would fascinate me. Holy Crap! This I want to learn.

I have a plant ready to go into flower every 8wks from the mother plant. This plant, being bushy, can fill my cabinet and will be finished in 8wks or there abouts. I didnt mean from sprout to finish. By the time one crop comes out, another one is ready to go in. I have been consistantly getting just over 16 oz each grow, if its one plant or two. I didnt mean to mislead you Stoney....

 

[Mutt]

Weeddog:

What nUts are you using and what kind of air pump? just curious. Thanks.

 

[Weeddog]

Hey Mutt, I use General Hydroponic nuts and those cheap $10 dual aquarium pumps from walmart. A pump on each bucket and one on the reservoir. I also use a small water pump to flow water from the res to the buckets which keeps everything mixed well. I guess one would call my system a recirculating dwc.

 

[Mutt]

Really, I made a small one, but those little pumps didn't seem to bubble enough I was using a long foam bubbler. Air you using those long bubblers or the small air stones?Sorry for the million questions. I just have all the materials for a bubbler. If that will work for me then I won't go to Ebb-n-flo for my clones.

and how big is you bucket that holds the medium. will a 3 gallon work for two plants? (I have a few rubbermaids @ three gallon that would work perfect.)

 

[Weeddog]

I use the small blue air stones while in vegg. Remember, these are dual air pumps so i run 2 hoses into the bucket and put a stone on each one. While in flowering, I dont use any stones, except in the reservoir. I use a simple T in the buckets instead of the stones. I find that a stone tends to stop up before the grow is done where the T will not. So there is 2 lines going into the bucket with a T on each one and they are tied to the drain on the bottom.

I use 5 gallon buckets to flower with but 3 gallon would problbly work fine also if you recirculate. I use 3 gallon buckets to vegg with. I use a black lid with a 6" hole cut in it and a 6" net pot with hydroton.

My buckets in the flower room drain back to the res outside the closet via a 1" pvc pipe. Its very easy to check nut strength and ph in the reservoir at any time during the light cycle.

 

[Mutt]

I am growing NL true indo. which only gets to three feet tops. So two hoses. Does the DWC have to recircualting? or can I just replenish the nut solution once a week and replace every two weeks? Or is it better to just recirculate and just monitor the PH closer?


I'll try it with the three gallon. not hard to upsize.
So a simple T-connector on each side should work fine. two pumps.
thanks for the help dude. I figured Hydroton would be the way to go with it just use the lid as the pot holder. I seen lots of variations with this system. (I like this too as it can be my cloner and flower system all at once)

edit: last question I swear. can you reuse the hydroton after a grow or is it better to just replace the works?

 

[Weeddog]

You should do just fine without recirculation. It just makes it easier to check things out. I use single buckets during vegg and do as you say and change water out every two weeks. I do reuse my hydroton. Just wash with bleach water then rinse really well. The way I see it, one bag of that stuff could last several years.

One advantage with a recirculating system is ease of adding water and nuts. A full blown plant will make it hard to lift the lid and check things. All I have to do is lift the lid on my reservoir and take all the time I need.

Just a little side note: during flowering, my plants usually drink 2 gallons of water a day. So you may want a reservoir to make it easier to add water. If you were to let it run a full week before adding water, you may run dry.... Even a 5 gallon bucket will run dry in 3 days at that rate. May want to think about that before you flower.

 

[Mutt]

Thanks man. helped me out a ton. won't let me give you anymore rep.

 

[Stoney Bud]

I have a plant ready to go into flower every 8wks from the mother plant. This plant, being bushy, can fill my cabinet and will be finished in 8wks or there abouts. I didnt mean from sprout to finish. By the time one crop comes out, another one is ready to go in. I have been consistantly getting just over 16 oz each grow, if its one plant or two. I didnt mean to mislead you Stoney....

It sounds like you've been watching Mr. Green!

Good luck to you.