5 70% Sat doms from the backbreed experiment

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Checking the plants roughly once per week now. In flower for 7 weeks. Just packing on bud at this point. Looks like a very long flowering period, another 10-12 weeks is my guess. I'm hoping for a yield of at least 8 oz. dry per plant, average. More would be nice.
Today, plants #2,3,4 are 46", 39", 30". No change in #1 except more bud.

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Climate still terrible ... 38 - 40C in the shade. I am sure the plants are really slow growing in this heat. I wish it would cloud over.
Heights: 52", 46.5", 39.5", 34.5"
Not to mention 1 new seedling (Nigerian landrace sativa) and one other seed with a taproot, delicately planted in a pot today.
I am ceasing the separate journal on the Nigerian seeds because the germ rate was so poor. Out of 20 seeds only four popped, and two of those were eaten by some pest. Oh well.
I think in late August I will order some Black Domina for an indoor grow, begin in September, the climate should be improved enough by then for indicas to stand it.
 
Heights: 52", 46.5", 40", 43". #4 has overtaken #3 despite being started much later. Different phenotype. The leaves look more like a sat dom on #4 while #3 looks more indica. Also, the bud on #3 has that 'rolled up' look, a bit like the 50-50 hybrid was like.
The Nigerian seedling is about 2" tall now and the second one didn't make it.
Growth is still too slow; temperatures still too high, topping 36C most days and sometimes at 38-40C. Need cooler weather. Planning to order some Black Domina around mid-September for the winter indica grow.
 
Very interesting Leaf :)

You could be onto something with the single lobe.

Are your temperatures always this high?

:peace:
 
Hi there, HIE. Temps in summer aren't usually this high. It has been particularly bad this year. Not only did it kill my indicas despite all the TLC, but my entire tomato crop failed, all the toms were cooked, basically, on the plants. It's 35C today, we are just beginning to see improvement, but I am not risking ordering the Domina seed yet.
I'm about half way through the experiment with the single-lobe plants; the proof will be in the smoke and it will be a while yet. If the smoke is first class I will continue with this strain and see if I can refine it. If not ... into the garbage heap of failed experiments!
 
52.5, 48, 47, 8 inches respectively. Of course the little one is the Nigerian.
RRRRIP!
That was the sound of me ripping #2 (not listed above) from its pot. Bad phenotype! Naughty plant! No more nutes for YOU!

As you can see from the pics, (the bad pheno is pheno 1) this plant has developed very differently from its mates (same batch of seed, type "Secret Agent", 75% sat / 25% ind) - that one looks to have more indica in it.

The big problem is the type of bud it produces. Open and airy. Just look at it. Close-up is pheno1B. Urgh. I'm not going to bother trying the seed from it. I pulled it today, trimmed it and hung it to dry. I need some more puff anyway. Nearly out.

By contrast, take a look at pheno2 and pheno3. Obviously 2 is more advanced than 3 in budding, but it looks like these are going to produce nice colas and I am hoping for a good yield from them.

As usual, all comments are welcome.

pheno1A.jpg


pheno1B.jpg


pheno2.jpg


pheno3.jpg
 
nice!

Dope will get you through times of no money better than money will get you through times of no dope
that is hilariously true dude!
 
Very interesting journal.
I am wondering now if the high temps here is the reason my indica doms are never very big. I get high temps too, but my tomatoes are doing okay.....the sativa doms are tall, monster tall, but the indicas are short squaty. Never considered it would be due to heat.
Your single leaf plant is way cool. Your right, it would blend right into a vedgie garden.
 
Very probably, tcbud, imo. I only started growing indicas recently, say 3 years ago, with Aurora. And I have always had a high mortality rate and various difficulties. Of course, it occurs to me that I have always relied on maintaining my moms or clones year round.
I think it makes more sense if I abandon that method and instead concentrate on raising a small winter crop making certain to get sufficient seed for the next year, and forget indicas over the summer. Have to start looking carefully at the calendar to plan when to buy seed.
 
The one that I ripped out has been drying in the grow room long enough now to be smokable, so I tried it last night. Bit rough as expected from an uncured sample, but not too bad. The high was similar to the 'Mint Choc' (50-50 hybrid) so I think this (F2) sample is, as I suspected, a throwback and has more indica genetics than the expected 25%.

The others are beginning to pack on calyxes now, I gave them a feed of 15-30-15 and could see the results a day or two later.

Daytime temp forecast is still at 38-39C all week. Still too early to order the Black Domina seed.
 
Gave a concentration (roughly the same ppms as the 15-30-15), of my crystal phosphate. It's a mixture of potassium phosphate and ammonium phosphate.
The Nigerian is doing well. It took off with that last feed of 15-30-15. About a foot tall now.
Put the dried 'bad' pheno into cure. It's quite :afroweed: even uncured. The yield is terrible though. Maybe 3/4 oz.:huh:
Good calyx building taking place on the Agents. Beginning to be cautiously optimistic on yield.
 
Gave another feed of crystal phosphate (mixed NH3PO4 and KPO4) and though I could see the result, slight burn on leaf tips tells me I am at the limit on nutes for the time being. Hmm, might try a little N ... just a little.
Rain for two days, temps down to maybe 26 at most. No sun either. The Nigerian is about 2 ft now. Could be either sex. If M I will selectively pollinate one branch of the Agents and then destroy. It would be interesting to outcross my 75% sat dom to a 100% landrace sat from Africa.
Colas on the Agents are building slowly but nicely. When the sun was out I could see resin glistening on them.
 
Rainy weather continues . . .
The Nigerian has shown sex, and it is male. Never mind. I shall use it to pollinate a bit of #3, thus producing an outcross: 87.5% sat dom, around 50% Nigerian, 40% Oaxaca, 10% Aurora. The aim being to restore vigour and yield.

I just counted up the weeks, and ARGH! Since beginning flower it has been 12 weeks and they show no sign of finishing yet. Trichs are all clear. Colas are still filling out. Terribly slow. Maybe the weather conditions; far too hot this year, followed by clouds and rain. Oh well. Patience, patience. I dunno if my dwindling stock of bud will last until harvest time.

cola1.jpg


cola2.jpg


cola3.jpg
 
Total BUMMER. Heavy rain last night snapped the one (above, left) off at the base. I found it lying on its side this morning.
I've tried first aid by pruning the lower branches so as to get a piece of clear stem, jamming the two pieces together as hard as I could, and wrapping the join with white PTFE (plumbers tape) then reinforcing it with a stake and taping the stem to the stake to keep it rigid.
But I do not think my chances are good.
Damn. This plant was around 4-5 weeks from harvest.
 
hey leaf the pix you put up in post # 46 above where ya said how ya didnt liek teh airy type bud it put out....
well hate to break it to ya bro but it looks as tho its revegging to me.
my entry into the biggest plant of the year. aka "zips crazy frog" also entered her in last month BPOTM (july) she did the same exact thig and was from shwag weed and she was definately a dominant sativa for sure.
had this really odd smell to ehr too. almost a diesel type smell but when ya rub or bump the buds a lil it smell/wreak of cat pee an pine trees LOL.
but she revegged as a result of too much N durrin flowering is the assumption i came to.
mj is/has been known to reveg durrin flower even with light right on just simply dur to too much N in the diet. also if i understood all the reserch i dd , that sativas are known to reveg from too much N durring mid to late flowr :confused2: and the reason i feel that was the case wit my frog is cuz i was dumb at the time and was sstill givin her a nute dose for aggressive bloom all the way into her 8th an 9th week of flower thinkin she would take at least 12 weeks liek a sat dom would. LOL. but i revegged her and she officially is now but a wek aways from snippin my first clone off of :hubba; pix of ehr now in my bonzai journal below.
now i'll kow to back way off the N when i flower out her clones for sure etc. and i guess i'll see if it was that she revegged or if it is just the way the buds are on taht particular strain or watever idk.

but wat was ya givin for nutes and wat strength and how far into flowering was/is she.
 
Hi there leafminer,:)

when you inbreed F1 x F1 as you know you get the F2's and these are subject to something that happens called 'gene recombination' which means the parent plants may have looked nice and uniform but the F2's typically have great phenotypical variation which means almost every plant can look a bit different from its neighbour and unusual types can emerge through recessive genes being able to be expressed so you can get exceptional and totally unique individuals both good and bad and it's often you can find a keeper which is superior to the original F1 progeny.

Sorry to hear of your broken plant but if you wrapped the break up well and it's still going after 24 hours she should be fine.

But you are getting your wires a bit crossed with this percentages business as it doesnt quite work like that.


Lots of folk think if you cross a an indica with a sat you've got a 50%/50% mix and then say you backcross to the mum you'll have 75%,do it again and you have 87.5% etc etc.

No,these percentages refer to allele frequencies in a population of plants,not to a percentage of genes expressed in the actual plant.

An allele is a unit or units of genetic info in a gene specific to a certain trait.

By this I mean a cross could have say 50% of offspring looking like mum,50% like dad or maybe 25%/75% or 33%/66% and is dependent on the breeding condition of the plants used in the cross.

The breeding condition could be heterozygous(hybrid) which means it's alleles for a trait are unequal,so say you had a plant that had pine smelling resin it would be annotated thus: Pp.

Or it could be homozygous,meaning truebreeding for a trait and is either dominant or recessive. Dominant: PP Recessive: pp.

So a plant has 2 alleles for every trait but ONLY ONE is offered by the plant in any cross(per individual seed) and this is almost impossible to explain in words,you need diagrams called punnet boxes and by using a punnet box if you know the breeding condition make accurate predictions of those percentages which will help you decide in which plants to further work with.

There must be some info on breeding and the punnet box here at MP so I'd advise you take a look for some as once the penny drops and you can understand the concept you'll have SO much more confidence in your work with crosses as you actually have a proper understanding of whats going on.

Sorry I can't be more helpful but I don't have any pics of punnet boxes showing typical crosses but these laws are universal throughout for anything on this earth with dna in it.The same applies for our eye and hair colour along with every other inheritable trait and was first hypothesised by Gregor Mendel,the grand daddy of the laws of inheritance.

I really recommend Marijuana Botany by Robert Connell Clarke,it's a great first primer for cannabis genetics and has really good easy to understand diagrams and explanations.

sorry I went on a bit but I hope this helps.
 
zipflip said:
hey leaf the pix you put up in post # 46 above where ya said how ya didnt liek teh airy type bud it put out....
well hate to break it to ya bro but it looks as tho its revegging to me.
my entry into the biggest plant of the year. aka "zips crazy frog" also entered her in last month BPOTM (july) she did the same exact thig and was from shwag weed and she was definately a dominant sativa for sure.
had this really odd smell to ehr too. almost a diesel type smell but when ya rub or bump the buds a lil it smell/wreak of cat pee an pine trees LOL.
but she revegged as a result of too much N durrin flowering is the assumption i came to.
mj is/has been known to reveg durrin flower even with light right on just simply dur to too much N in the diet. also if i understood all the reserch i dd , that sativas are known to reveg from too much N durring mid to late flowr :confused2: and the reason i feel that was the case wit my frog is cuz i was dumb at the time and was sstill givin her a nute dose for aggressive bloom all the way into her 8th an 9th week of flower thinkin she would take at least 12 weeks liek a sat dom would. LOL. but i revegged her and she officially is now but a wek aways from snippin my first clone off of :hubba; pix of ehr now in my bonzai journal below.
now i'll kow to back way off the N when i flower out her clones for sure etc. and i guess i'll see if it was that she revegged or if it is just the way the buds are on taht particular strain or watever idk.

but wat was ya givin for nutes and wat strength and how far into flowering was/is she.

Yeah I do believe you're right! I had the plant in a soil I made which was basically 75% coco and 25% pasteurised sheep manure, very high N. I guess what might have happened is the plant didn't use all the N before flowering and high N levels persisted.
Thanks for the advice. Won't make that mistake again.
 
Thanks for the explanation, Rockster.
The yield from my Agent type is not good. I think probably what happens is that the energy input from photosynthesis is way down because of the unusual leaf type. Those slender single-lobe leaves can't pick up nearly as much light as the big traditional fan leaves. I have a male growing of the Nigerian so I'll probably outcross to it with the aim of restoring a more traditional leaf shape and higher yield.
 
The broken plant yielded about 2 1/2 oz. Way less than I had hoped for. Oh well. Time to order the Domina.
 
Ordered Black Domina and Blue Mystic for the winter grow. Have to clean up the grow room! It's a wreck in there.
 

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