no cigs in bars/restraunts but pot ok.

[I'ma Joker Midnight Toker]

One i never said i go and smoke around others. my wife is a non smoker and we have kids so i enjoy my cigs out back because i know of what second hand smoke can and is said to do. your blinding your self with facts and rates so much that your blind and its also a choice that you make before you would walk into some place that is designated for smokers so you have no reason to complain if your the one that doesnt smoke in a smoke filled area. 99% of the problem with the bars and how smoky they were getting is from poor maintence of filtration if they were to use the ventilation and have it serviced regularly there would be your clean air for you and we could still have or smoking where we are. Closed, single mindedness to any and everyones feelings is ignorant and you are really getting on my last nerve calling me ignorant for thinking that i DONT have a right to choose what i do and where i do it cause i do,m thats your ignorance right there your telling me what i can do and where i can do it that is the problem, by someone stepping in and saying that were not allowed to do this has taken away our right to choose what we can do, POINT BLANK.


And yet here you are still (what you call) arguing the point. It is not proven fact that smoking kills if that were true someone would die any and every time they were to light up, its PROVEN to cause complications in health that MAY cause death. And did you know for someone to have health issues from second hand smoke has to spend YEARS and YEARS living in it for it to really effect them.And you sit there feeling all high and mighty spouting your non smoking propaganda again and have the nerve to call me ignorant, when your the closed minded, left wing, benighted, one trying to (yet again) force your opinions on someone that you disagree with. I say smoking is an individuals choice and those that choose not to smoke have NO RIGHT to tell me where and when i can or cant smoke. IF you dont like it because im sitting in a bar where (or when) it is/was allowed then you have stepped into the wrong place to have a drink head on down the street to the oxygen bar and pull up a mask.

Yes - it is a proven fact smoking kills, and yes you are ignorant if you can't see that...yeah I'm old...you were just a stain in your daddy's underwear when I started drinking and smoking pot so don't tell me where I can drink or not, have respect for your elders

I play by the rules...
Smoking places - I don't go there...plain and simple they got they're place, you're place...I'm happy you have a place.
the rest is for non-smokers, again don't complain as your turf shrinks, there is a reason, it kills,... oops I said it again. I like Britney even at my advanced age.

And yet here you are still (what you call) arguing the point. It is not proven fact that smoking kills if that were true someone would die any and every time they were to light up, its PROVEN to cause complications in health that MAY cause death.

Are you on Earth? It kills man, proven, done...don't need me to say so, it's documented...Christ read a book, get a life...it's set in stone like death and taxes... IT KILLS.

And did you know for someone to have health issues from second hand smoke has to spend YEARS and YEARS living in it for it to really effect them.And you sit there feeling all high and mighty spouting your non smoking propaganda again and have the nerve to call me ignorant, when your the closed minded, left wing, benighted, one trying to (yet again) force your opinions on someone that you disagree with.

Dude, you have no facts or basis to make that statement, besides the slander. Dude, there is nothing high or mighty about not smoking (propaganda? are you kidding me?), it's simply common sense.
Yet again...Dubba, you are a Dubba...are you related to George Dubba?

Man, you are missing the whole point, ... my dad died from it as thousands and maybe millions of others have or will...I see no benefit from it...so call me what you like and put words in my mouth that aren't what I said...I don't smoke or hurt others... Peace out...really...out...

PS I hope I woke your last nerve up, cause the carcinogens are going to kill it for ya anyway

 

[Dubbaman]

Yes - it is a proven fact smoking kills, and yes you are ignorant if you can't see that...yeah I'm old...you were just a stain in your daddy's underwear when I started drinking and smoking pot so don't tell me where I can drink or not, have respect for your elders

I play by the rules...
Smoking places - I don't go there...plain and simple they got they're place, you're place...I'm happy you have a place.
the rest is for non-smokers, again don't complain as your turf shrinks, there is a reason, it kills,... oops I said it again. I like Britney even at my advanced age.

And yet here you are still (what you call) arguing the point. It is not proven fact that smoking kills if that were true someone would die any and every time they were to light up, its PROVEN to cause complications in health that MAY cause death.

Are you on Earth? It kills man, proven, done...don't need me to say so, it's documented...Christ read a book, get a life...it's set in stone like death and taxes... IT KILLS.

And did you know for someone to have health issues from second hand smoke has to spend YEARS and YEARS living in it for it to really effect them.And you sit there feeling all high and mighty spouting your non smoking propaganda again and have the nerve to call me ignorant, when your the closed minded, left wing, benighted, one trying to (yet again) force your opinions on someone that you disagree with.

Dude, you have no facts or basis to make that statement, besides the slander. Dude, there is nothing high or mighty about not smoking (propaganda? are you kidding me?), it's simply common sense.
Yet again...Dubba, you are a Dubba...are you related to George Dubba?

Man, you are missing the whole point, ... my dad died from it as thousands and maybe millions of others have or will...I see no benefit from it...so call me what you like and put words in my mouth that aren't what I said...I don't smoke or hurt others... Peace out...really...out...

PS I hope I woke your last nerve up, cause the carcinogens are going to kill it for ya anyway

what the hell ever man your blindly ignorant and moronically stupid enough to still try and debate a moot point then you will never see anything but your own set aging ways. Life is no more about you and what the world needs to conform for you than it is about society as a whole and understanding the wants and needs or respect and desires of others and once you get it out of the thick ******* head that your not the only one who can or for that matter should benefit from any law/rule that is put into place then , and only then will you start to respect any side of any debate, till then go back to your cave and be happy that they pass the unjust and completely utterly insane law that says some life choices are to be kept in the prohibition stage. just wait some time and once again it will be raging out of control and accepted by all and then you will be the one out in the cold losing your stool to someone who is a smoker and you were the one that had to go out to get your air. Cig smoking does no more harm to an individual (non-smoker) in an hour of breathing it in than sitting in smog filled traffic for 15 mins in your morning commute. Like i said your blinded by propaganda and will not see the real truth behind the matter so you may as well drop it, because your starting to sound like a 6 year old who still cant understand why 3*9/27=1 doesn't add up. And just to prove the point again it was W that signed the papers to make it a country wide ban., therefor you should be kidding his *** for it because like i said its jack offs like you that cant stand for someone else to do what they please and feel you have to control it all for you to be happy and **** the rest.

P.S. i don't give a rats ******* *** what any of you self centered hypocrites do or say about any of the previous posts or of this one in particular tight ***-ed cock ******* leftists should never be able to say what anyone can or should do in public or in private. when *** holes like this get too much attention or power they think that changing the world for their on benefit is where its at and thats where the western "civilization" has got it all backward, its all for one and one for all not one for themselves and who gives **** who it complicates life for, you ******* closed minded flamboyantly ignorant *** licking MORON.Id bet you the same type of jack *** that believes a woman who is molested/raped and gets pregnant shouldn't have the right to terminate too, and here is the same double edged debate that you yourself said is ignorant to get into but you still did, its my body and my life you should never have the right to decide what i can and can not choose to do or where i do it! Its just not your place or right to decide, and that is the whole point that you keep evading, and that is why i know that you have no point to debate on.

 

[dmack]

western "civilization" has got it all backward, its all for one and one for all not one for themselves and who gives **** who it complicates life for, you ******* closed minded flamboyantly ignorant *** licking MORON.

Yes civilization has it all twisted. I guess it was all for one when we came over here and destroyed civilizations. And it is all for one when people totally disregard other human beings feelings about the death sticks you throw around in front of them called cigs. You are a very knowlegable person Dubbaman but maybe for once just think maybe all the commercials and addiction adgents of your cigs have made you fight for the right to kill other people. Letting that cig go through generations without denying it is going to cause massive land use for graves . I guess keep on smoking cause soon or later all the people who smoke wont just be here. Die your race out if you want. But you have control over it bro. Live on with us and dont let this addiction of a goverment made weapon kill you. Peace and love my friends

 

[I'ma Joker Midnight Toker]

what the hell ever man your blindly ignorant and moronically stupid enough to still try and debate a moot point then you will never see anything but your own set aging ways. Life is no more about you and what the world needs to conform for you than it is about society as a whole and understanding the wants and needs or respect and desires of others and once you get it out of the thick ******* head that your not the only one who can or for that matter should benefit from any law/rule that is put into place then , and only then will you start to respect any side of any debate, till then go back to your cave and be happy that they pass the unjust and completely utterly insane law that says some life choices are to be kept in the prohibition stage. just wait some time and once again it will be raging out of control and accepted by all and then you will be the one out in the cold losing your stool to someone who is a smoker and you were the one that had to go out to get your air. Cig smoking does no more harm to an individual (non-smoker) in an hour of breathing it in than sitting in smog filled traffic for 15 mins in your morning commute. Like i said your blinded by propaganda and will not see the real truth behind the matter so you may as well drop it, because your starting to sound like a 6 year old who still cant understand why 3*9/27=1 doesn't add up. And just to prove the point again it was W that signed the papers to make it a country wide ban., therefor you should be kidding his *** for it because like i said its jack offs like you that cant stand for someone else to do what they please and feel you have to control it all for you to be happy and **** the rest.

P.S. i don't give a rats ******* *** what any of you self centered hypocrites do or say about any of the previous posts or of this one in particular tight ***-ed cock ******* leftists should never be able to say what anyone can or should do in public or in private. when *** holes like this get too much attention or power they think that changing the world for their on benefit is where its at and thats where the western "civilization" has got it all backward, its all for one and one for all not one for themselves and who gives **** who it complicates life for, you ******* closed minded flamboyantly ignorant *** licking MORON.Id bet you the same type of jack *** that believes a woman who is molested/raped and gets pregnant shouldn't have the right to terminate too, and here is the same double edged debate that you yourself said is ignorant to get into but you still did, its my body and my life you should never have the right to decide what i can and can not choose to do or where i do it! Its just not your place or right to decide, and that is the whole point that you keep evading, and that is why i know that you have no point to debate on.

Man oh man dude, you are everything your post says about me...who's acting like a 6 year old, not me. I'm not alone on this and I'm not closed minded...I know what cigs do and you can't get a grip on it, it's got a grip on you. I'm not addicted to cigs, you are plain and simple and you can't see past your addiction. I don't have to call you a moron or names, what does that solve? You need therapy my friend. Now you bring abortion into it...I see one they missed that I would have been all for... You are just a trouble maker dude.

its my body and my life you should never have the right to decide what i can and can not choose to do or where i do it! Its just not your place or right to decide, and that is the whole point that you keep evading, and that is why i know that you have no point to debate on.

I think I haven't evaded this point at all. I do have the right to decide where you smoke if it's going to effect the health of me and others. You're just beside yourself because you are losing the battle in this area. Soon it will be against the law to smoke anywhere in public...Hooray!!! It's not just me but millions of others who want this too, to protect their children and loved ones from the mindless who think they have the right to kill others besides themselves. I'm being spot on this point, it's you who fails to see the light my friend.

Dubba, hmmm, what does that name imply?... get a life, if you can't debate without falling apart and calling people names and spitting out crap what good is your point? You're the one looking like the moron, not me so clean up your posts man and be cool...smoke yourself to death, I don't care...just be a gentleman and keep it away from others. Peace brother...

 

[mal_crane]

Hey Mal, got something to say I would love to hear it....

Me? I'm still waiting for your reply after posting all my researched information and REAL sources on the last thread you got out of control on ...

Speaking of sources, where are all your sources? Missing yet again it seems ...

I've nothing more to say to you, trouble maker, until I start seeing some actual sources and research rather than the opinions you love so much ...

 

[dmack]

The sources are all out there for everyone to see Mal. Google is are friend.

 

[mal_crane]

The sources are all out there for everyone to see Mal. Google is are friend.

Exactly my point Dmack. If the proof is out there then why can't Joker ever bring some sources to the table. He called me out for days bitching about how I didn't use sources when I denounced the use of prescription opiates. I gathered all my sources, publicly presented them to him, and surprise, surprise, I got no reply. Now, here we are again, people freaking out on each other because Joker once again has no other reason for posting in this thread other than to start a pointless argument. You don't like smoking, find someplace else that bans smoking and make that your home. I am a smoker and I have rights. If a bar allows smoking, then you have a choice to make whether to go in or find another bar without smoking. Don't want to go to a restaurant because there is a smoking section, find another restaurant. We all have a choice. You have a right to choose whether or not you want to smoke, just as you have a right to choose not to enter public buildings that allow smoking.

 

[POTUS]

Today, the facts concerning overall costs to society and the actual heath risks are well known and accepted by anyone who has researched the thousands of studies done. The below statement is written by the Center for Disease Control (CDC) in the USA.

I smoked for more than 30 years. I said the same things that I've seen the smokers here in this thread say. I did so out of ignorance of the actual facts that are proven with no doubt what-so-ever. If anyone argues with the facts, then it's they who are hiding their heads in the sand and refusing to admit that they are indeed wrong.

The facts I speak of are published and known throughout the world by educated people who have bothered to check the validity of the facts presented.

The link at the bottom of this post will take you to the published article written by the CDC. I know that someone will bring out the fact that the CDC is a place that is financed and run by the US Government. Big deal. That means nothing, BECAUSE, each and every fact that they state can be independently backed up by private research done by Hospitals and Medical research centers around the world. They are just stating the same results as the others have found to be true.

I'm not trying to piss off anyone. I'm trying to show the overwhelming evidence available to anyone who looks for it.

It took me less than one minute to find this web page.

Anyone who ignores or denies the facts about smoking today is doing so as a result of ignorance of the facts or just blind addiction to the very thing that is killing them.

The oldest and most tiring line I've ever heard a smoker tell is "My doctor said that my body shows no signs of damage from smoking and I've been smoking for a lot of years".

That line is Bovine Excrement. NO DOCTOR would be so ignorant as to say that. I don't care how loud you say it, it's still Bovine Excrement.

Fire your Doctor and find one without a bone through his nose.

If you are willing to pay for the costs that YOU cause, at about $10 per/pack of stupid, AND you want to do it where nobody else is hurt by your ignorance and addiction, then FINE, go for it.

Picture this: "I'm not hurting anyone but myself" This comment has been said by every single narcotic addict that ever existed. Smokers are just parroting the reasoning.

So, here's the article from the CDC:

Cigarette smoking continues to be the principal cause of premature death in the United States and imposes substantial costs on society. For each of the approximately 22 billion packs sold in the U.S. in 1999, $3.45 was spent on medical care attributable to smoking, and $3.73 in productivity losses were incurred, for a total cost of $7.18 per pack. These costs provide a strong rationale for increasing funding for comprehensive tobacco-use interventions to the levels recommended by CDC. In California, decreases in smoking prevalence have resulted in reduced lung cancer and heart disease death rates (9,10). These results offer evidence of the potential benefits of expanding comprehensive tobacco-control programs in an effort to reduce current smoking prevalence by 50% by 2010.

FACTS ABOUT SMOKING Do they scare you so bad that you're addiction allows you to deny them? I'm betting that like most smokers, they do.

The problem is that every single item in this article can be proven with solid numbers and facts.

I'm still betting that your addiction will make you furious that I pointed this out and you'll call me names and get mad because of your addiction.

That's ok with me. I've already lived longer than you will if you don't quit s ucking on those things.

Sorry folks. You're not talking to a person who has never smoked. I know why I said the same crap you are. It's called an addiction.

"I can quit them any time I want" Uh huh. You just haven't wanted to in the past 20 years, right? Uh huh.

Bull.

Every smoker wishes they had never seen the damn things. Some are honest enough to admit it.

Ok, I've got the pot bellied stove open, so throw all the flames you want.....

I still love you all. I still love this place. Your anger won't make me stop.

 

[Hick]

WHAT???.. I fail to check on a thread foe a couple of days, and it turns into an immature, mudslinging, name calling, ranting fued...?
Can't leave children alone for a moment I suppose.. :hitchair: :ignore:
I hope that a 24 hour suspension of both of your posting privlidges, will involk you to reflect and "respect" our rules here..
Thank you..

 

[Hick]

Where do "I" stand on the issue??
If I am the bar/resteraunt owner, it should definately be "MY"" perogative to allow smoking or not. "I" own" the building, "I" pay the taxes, "I" should set the rules. Not unlike MarPassion..
"YOU" as a non-smoker, have the perogative of weather to patronize "my" establishment or not... Noone is forceing you..
my .02

 

[thestandard]

sovereignty of the individual was given up when we left the state of nature for civil society i'm afraid..

 

[POTUS]

sovereignty of the individual was given up when we left the state of nature for civil society i'm afraid..

Yes, when one joins a society and then causes problems that cost $10 per/pack of cigs PLUS the cost of the cigs and the profits of the people who make them, each pack should cost about 15 USD. Each pack.

When smokers start paying for the problems they cause, I'll start respecting their sovereignty in regards to smoking.

So far, that hasn't happened. Society STILL pays for them. That includes ME, and I don't want to pay for someones addiction.

It's really that simple.

Peace, long life, prosperity and happiness.

 

[allgrownup]

completely trashed, comin down, hung over, etc......

you save your last coulple bucks for breakfast in denny's (or some other fine breakfast establishment)


and then it happens....someone lites a GOSH DARNED cigarette.

i just want to thrash over the DAD GUMMED booths and throw my hot coffee in their face.

man that SMOKEsmells like MY PITS.

and second hand smoke doesnt effect me????than how come i can spend a nite in a club, bar or casino, or just about any place where most of civilization with no self dicipline or intellect hang out daily, and wake up the next morning still smelling cigarettes. its in my nose, i cant escape it. i have to put up with it til the stank wears off. not to mention my close reaking. you ever see a smokers house when they move sheesh...there's a whole new color of paint behind their wall pics.

that stuff is poison and inescapable....i feel like smokers do it with intent like cropdusting.... shov'n it down my face...(its my world to...and you have to deal with it....wha wha)

the bottom line about cigs.....they serve no health benefit whatsoever and affect others. i hope that one day if smokers have children they RISE above their ADDICTION and spare their children the asthma, cronic illness, and God forbid worse.

prove to yourself that you have some self dicipline and are in control of your life. quit.

 

[allgrownup]

for those that aren't aware.....you can provide your children with EXCEPTIONAL healthcare in California compliments of smokers.

its all based on income of course but the only benefit i have seen come from smoking is the taxes the smokers pay. They use this money to almost completely subsidize the "healthy families" program. Every person in CA who has children and makes less than 50k??? 75K??? idk it depends on how many dependents and whatever....can get this health coverage.

this program helps thousands of families provide care to otherwise uninsured children.

i have no problem with people smoking as long as its not in public places or outside areas where people gather. you can have your own smoking clubs, bars etc. As long as there is a clear sign or way to identify the establishment, than i will avoid them.

thats the way it should be....people should have choices and they should be respected.

 

[mal_crane]

Quote from POTUS: "If you are willing to pay for the costs that YOU cause, at about $10 per/pack of stupid" and "When smokers start paying for the problems they cause, I'll start respecting their sovereignty in regards to smoking."

You forget that we (smokers and business owners who allow smoking) pay much more in health and life insurance than non-smokers. In the end, before smokers begin to die out, we will also have helped the economy considerably. Think about all the money spent on that extra gas to go to the store for a pack of cigarettes, all the extra doctor's visits, all the money we put back into the government for paying outrages taxes on a product that costs 31 cents to make. Not saying it makes it right, just sticking with the facts.

Quote from Hick: "Where do "I" stand on the issue??
If I am the bar/resteraunt owner, it should definately be "MY"" perogative to allow smoking or not. "I" own" the building, "I" pay the taxes, "I" should set the rules. Not unlike MarPassion..
"YOU" as a non-smoker, have the perogative of weather to patronize "my" establishment or not... Noone is forceing you.."

Very well put Hick, thank you!

 

[POTUS]

Quote from POTUS: "If you are willing to pay for the costs that YOU cause, at about $10 per/pack of stupid" and "When smokers start paying for the problems they cause, I'll start respecting their sovereignty in regards to smoking."

You forget that we (smokers and business owners who allow smoking) pay much more in health and life insurance than non-smokers. In the end, before smokers begin to die out, we will also have helped the economy considerably. Think about all the money spent on that extra gas to go to the store for a pack of cigarettes, all the extra doctor's visits, all the money we put back into the government for paying outrages taxes on a product that costs 31 cents to make. Not saying it makes it right, just sticking with the facts.

None of that extra money balances the scales. Not even close.

Smokers cost society BILLIONS of dollars that are paid for by non-smokers. Like I said, if you were to pay your own way, each pack would cast you about $15 USD. Until it does, us non-smokers are still paying for your addiction.

I think I've already made that point.

 

[Hick]

completely trashed, comin down, hung over, etc......

you save your last coulple bucks for breakfast in denny's (or some other fine breakfast establishment)


and then it happens....someone lites a GOSH DARNED cigarette.

i just want to thrash over the DAD GUMMED booths and throw my hot coffee in their face.

man that SMOKEsmells like MY PITS.

and second hand smoke doesnt effect me????than how come i can spend a nite in a club, bar or casino, or just about any place where most of civilization with no self dicipline or intellect hang out daily, and wake up the next morning still smelling cigarettes. its in my nose, i cant escape it. i have to put up with it til the stank wears off. not to mention my close reaking. you ever see a smokers house when they move sheesh...there's a whole new color of paint behind their wall pics.

that stuff is poison and inescapable....i feel like smokers do it with intent like cropdusting.... shov'n it down my face...(its my world to...and you have to deal with it....wha wha)

the bottom line about cigs.....they serve no health benefit whatsoever and affect others. i hope that one day if smokers have children they RISE above their ADDICTION and spare their children the asthma, cronic illness, and God forbid worse.

prove to yourself that you have some self dicipline and are in control of your life. quit.

...From your post, a little "self discipline" could be apllicable here, too...
I "just" suspended two members for 'their' flagrant rule violations.

 

[Hick]

that stuff is poison and inescapable....i feel like smokers do it with intent like cropdusting.... shov'n it down my face...(its my world to...and you have to deal with it....wha wha)

In a "public" venue,... I absolutely agree. In "my" house.. "my" bar, "my" resteraunt.. you nor the government should be allowed to 'dictate' what "I" do or allow, as long as it is legal.. "IMHO" I know smoking isn't healthy, it's a serious health hazard. On that I don't disagree.
I find it interesting/ironic that "you" being such an advocate of 'freedom' and soooo against governmental control, rules, and restrictions, to be in such high support of that very thing now.
Kinda' the pot calling the kettle black ain't it??.
I won't allow another mudslinging match to get started, and I'm not trying to start one. I just simply find it apalling, that you find our rules constricting, complain about the censorship, offend me with your language, are always posting about "freedoms" and "rights" violations, yet support the governmental control of what is and isn't allowed in a privately owned establishment. Infringment on "my" rights as a property owner,... again.. "IMHO".
I'm not advocating smoking, or dismissing the hazards of second hand smoke. "I" am addressing the rights of a property owner.

 

[dmack]

Quote from POTUS: "If you are willing to pay for the costs that YOU cause, at about $10 per/pack of stupid" and "When smokers start paying for the problems they cause, I'll start respecting their sovereignty in regards to smoking."

You forget that we (smokers and business owners who allow smoking) pay much more in health and life insurance than non-smokers. In the end, before smokers begin to die out, we will also have helped the economy considerably. Think about all the money spent on that extra gas to go to the store for a pack of cigarettes, all the extra doctor's visits, all the money we put back into the government for paying outrages taxes on a product that costs 31 cents to make. Not saying it makes it right, just sticking with the facts.

Quote from Hick: "Where do "I" stand on the issue??
If I am the bar/resteraunt owner, it should definately be "MY"" perogative to allow smoking or not. "I" own" the building, "I" pay the taxes, "I" should set the rules. Not unlike MarPassion..
"YOU" as a non-smoker, have the perogative of weather to patronize "my" establishment or not... Noone is forceing you.."

Very well put Hick, thank you!

I fail to mention it costs 50 billion a year in healthcare costs to keep your society of smoking kicking. That was money put out that could have wen tot much brighter things in life. Like that kid thats starving or that homeless person shivering in the cold night. But no you want that money for yourselfs you selfish people. And that gas that you use to get to the store everyday for your pack of cigs is causing much more polution ON TOP OF your so called cigs. All fighting this thread battle in hopes that your death sticks will look much better in our eyes then i have a reality check. Your basically dead. The people who see the truths and decipher all the ** are the ones who will live one. We have control of OUR lives. YOU DONT. So the next time i see a person smoking with no regard for the other human being next to him ill be sure to pray that night against that person. Or i can hit him and show how much pain he is causing in the future???? This is a right and wrong situation. Yous are wrong who think you can smoke anywhere. Guess i can urinate on your lawn too when i want eh?

 

[mal_crane]

The above (^#39) is a ridiculous post. Did you even read anything Hick just said? Have you ever even paid life insurance or health insurance? Try comparing how much you as a non-smoker pays compared to any smoker who admits they smoke to the insurance company. Where did you find your statistics of 50 billion a year in health care costs? Personally, I could care less how many times each and every one of you use the death scare tactic with me. If I die from smoking cigarettes, then I die from smoking cigarettes. As I've already said at the beginning of this thread, even before I smoked I still respected the right of the smoker. It's amazing how against strict government control most of you are, yet here you all are saying government control needs to be tighter.

And Dmack, come on, seriously. You're going to try and tell me about pollution? It takes 14 years for a cigarette butt to decompose and if you're worried about the gas, i'll walk to the store from now on. Have you ever used any type of plastic (McD's styro, store bag, candy wrapper, even a plastic soda cap) and not recycled it? Then you've caused a whole lot more pollution than my cigarette butts ever will. Plastic and styro are resistant to oxydation and are artificial so it cannot be devoured by micro-organisms.

I didn't say nor have I EVER said that smokers should be allowed to smoke EVERYWHERE. This has nothing to do with you coming over to my house and pissing on my lawn. In fact, that is the exact opposite of what we are trying to show you. This thread deals with property rights. You don't have any more of a right to come over and urinate on my lawn than I do to come find wherever you are sitting in front of your computer monitor and blow cigarette smoke in your face. But if a bar or restaurant openly allows smoking, then quit whining because it's your right to GO FIND SOMEPLACE ELSE! Remember it's not your business, you don't pay taxes on it, you don't own it. Go build Dmack's Bar and put a big sign on the door that says NO SMOKING!