leds to add to hps worth it?

[JustAnotherAntMarching]

Roddy Just buy the "can of beans" already.... you obviously dont want to hear any answers other then the one your looking for, so just make the leap buy the "can of beans" LED & be sure you save your reciept for the return when you see no improvements....

 

[Roddy]

Wow, I didn't realize my questions were irking people so much, I am hoping to learn a little bit and HOPEFULLY not have buyer's remorse...this is the reason I ask so many questions (and maybe, just maybe someone else learns along the way?). No, I am not set on the can of beans, however, since it IS at my hydro shop, return would be easier and this would be my first choice IF it will work....why I am asking as much as I can think to ask....because I also hate to take things back. I ask these questions to learn, this is what I thought was obvious.

I'd venture a question as to what you mean by no improvements (since it seems some think a panel would give better trich/potency, why wouldn't the Kessil), but I'll go to lurking. My apologies all.

 

[nouvellechef]

Like I said. You already have a 1k. Focus on getting over 1k grams from each harvest. Thats alot of pot to smoke. Potency comes with fire strains, focus on those two things and you wont think about LED's anymore.

 

[Roddy]

Well NC, I am going to add light to the body anyway, just looking at what would be best to use. IF there'd be a benefit to the LED's, they're cheaper all around and I'd go for it, but I'm not going to go just to be different.

Keep in mind, I already have good lighting (but more light never hurts), but I grow tall gals and want to body feed to get more bud from the "wasteland"...while more light is a goal, if potency is added in the mix, BONUS!!!!

As I said, just trying to learn here.

 

[Jericho]

Also try keeping the tops cool under the HPS, most likely the drop in potency would come from the trichs being damaged because of the heat given off.

I dont think that using it as an additional light would help in potency, I can only see that the LED were more potent due to less light and heat damage from the light.

 

[nouvellechef]

Well NC, I am going to add light to the body anyway, just looking at what would be best to use. IF there'd be a benefit to the LED's, they're cheaper all around and I'd go for it, but I'm not going to go just to be different.

Keep in mind, I already have good lighting (but more light never hurts), but I grow tall gals and want to body feed to get more bud from the "wasteland"...while more light is a goal, if potency is added in the mix, BONUS!!!!

As I said, just trying to learn here.

Yep. I know..... Focus on training. I have seen your pics. Why not save the money and spend it on some Cali Connect seeds or other high end strain? Then focus on the growing part to maximize yield. Its all about effiency. But teach his own. GL

 

[JustAnotherAntMarching]

Wow, I didn't realize my questions were irking people so much, I am hoping to learn a little bit and HOPEFULLY not have buyer's remorse....

Roddy youve asked the same question like 5 times in this thread & gotten the same answer from most members here...

If you dont like the answers people are sharing or dont think they know what they are talkin about bc they havent used it first hand them fork out the dough and show us some improved growth on your lowers....? you can return the item so no buyers remorse...?

Heres a thought to bulk up your lowers: harvest in stages and leave the lower buds on the plant longer... :hubba:

 

[StoneyBud]

Roddy, the side lighting using LEDs won't help enough to bother with. LEDs **MUST** be within just a few inches of the part of the plant they're lighting. It makes no difference if it's a 28 watt LED or a 500 watt LED, it still has to be within a few inches of the part of the plant it's lighting.

LED lights have a MAX throw of about 18 inches. After about 6 inches, they don't do squat but make your plant stretch.

Lighting can NEVER be shining from below, UP, because that causes what is known as "competitive lighting" and that will cause more harm than good, resulting in the plant altering its proper hormone distribution to another type of distribution that will make the plant flower less and start growing stem length rapidly.

I would strongly suggest trying to use all the top lighting you can and just go with that. Top colas are where the majority of the harvest weight comes from, not the side growth.

In my opinion, based on my own use of LEDs and experience growing many, many crops and overseeing ten times that many, the side lighting is a waste of time and money. You'd do better maxing out the lumens per/sq ft from the top and go with that.

I've seen improvement on harvest weight up to 10 thousand lumens per/sq ft from the top. Providing you also deal with the heat produced and keep the plants far enough from the lamps IR output. All HID lights output IR. Too close and it will fry your plant tops and nothing will affect it unless you put a IR lens across your bulb and that will in turn lessen the usable lumens per/sq ft of good light.

I understand that you're trying to improve what is already the norm in plant lighting, but the path you're moving on isn't going to be productive. Side lighting just doesn't work enough to be worth it.

 

[Roddy]

I look back and all I see are the same NO answers from the same person, when asked what his answer was based on, I got nothing. To me, that's an opinion and I appreciate that, I'm looking for other opinions as well.

When I ask pointed questions to clarify previous answers, I don't see this as asking the same question...example, I asked about the body lighting, I was told the panel would interfere with the HPS, I corrected that it would be side lighting and not in the HPS light way....

Yep, you can return it, but as I said, I'd be buying from a friend and wouldn't feel right returning something simply because it didn't pass the test. I'd feel the same returning to a stranger, almost like buying the big screen only to return the day after the Super Bowl...so yes, buyer's remorse. Even if it was junk, I'd be the owner in the end.

I do like the idea of harvesting in stages...will have to see if I can work that in.

Anyway, no, I don't think my question was answered or I'd not still be here asking and hoping for more info, and I do appreciate all that have chimed in. I guess if I want to know about this, the best thing is to just go blindly in and hope, when I get the money, I'll be the guinea pig LOL

 

[JustAnotherAntMarching]

multiple people told you, including myself, dont waste your money on LEDs in several posts on this thread... Ive been the guinea pig ...trust me dont buy LEDs... buy some air pots with the $ and you will def improve your yield...

buying a light that does not perform is nothing like buyin a tv and returning it after the super bowl...

 

[Roddy]

Roddy, the side lighting using LEDs won't help enough to bother with. LEDs **MUST** be within just a few inches of the part of the plant they're lighting. It makes no difference if it's a 28 watt LED or a 500 watt LED, it still has to be within a few inches of the part of the plant it's lighting.

LED lights have a MAX throw of about 18 inches. After about 6 inches, they don't do squat but make your plant stretch.

Lighting can NEVER be shining from below, UP, because that causes what is known as "competitive lighting" and that will cause more harm than good, resulting in the plant altering its proper hormone distribution to another type of distribution that will make the plant flower less and start growing stem length rapidly.

I would strongly suggest trying to use all the top lighting you can and just go with that. Top colas are where the majority of the harvest weight comes from, not the side growth.

In my opinion, based on my own use of LEDs and experience growing many, many crops and overseeing ten times that many, the side lighting is a waste of time and money. You'd do better maxing out the lumens per/sq ft from the top and go with that.

I've seen improvement on harvest weight up to 10 thousand lumens per/sq ft from the top. Providing you also deal with the heat produced and keep the plants far enough from the lamps IR output. All HID lights output IR. Too close and it will fry your plant tops and nothing will affect it unless you put a IR lens across your bulb and that will in turn lessen the usable lumens per/sq ft of good light.

I understand that you're trying to improve what is already the norm in plant lighting, but the path you're moving on isn't going to be productive. Side lighting just doesn't work enough to be worth it.

THANKS Stoney, this is info I can use!!! I wondered about body lighting when in budding, but have heard others do it with success so wondered if this was a good option! I'm taking it the info I was shown on the unit needing to be a certain distance away from the plant was hype, too many are telling me LED's don't throw useful light that far.

Ok, so this brings me to my next question....discard the already used 400w HSP body lighting? I have it vertically hung between the plants...which brings me to this question...what about vert lighting, wouldn't this too cause competitive stretch??

MUCH appreciated, Stoney, this is what I have been looking for!!! Rep coming to you, my friend!

 

[Roddy]

multiple people told you, including myself, dont waste your money on LEDs in several posts on this thread... Ive been the guinea pig ...trust me dont buy LEDs... buy some air pots with the $ and you will def improve your yield...

buying a light that does not perform is nothing like buyin a tv and returning it after the super bowl...

Already have smart pots.

I'd be foolish if I never ventured to try to better yield AND potency...learning is my friend! My questions were focused on a product that I'm supposing no one here has tried...not just LED's in themselves....so truly, performance has neither been proven or otherwise. This also leads me to take all answers with a grain of salt since it's speculation on previous experience with a similar but different item, therefore leading me to ask specifying or clarifying questions.

As I said, I very much appreciate all who have chimed in and now have an idea of what my future plans are.

 

[nouvellechef]

Already have smart pots.

I'd be foolish if I never ventured to try to better yield AND potency...learning is my friend! My questions were focused on a product that I'm supposing no one here has tried...not just LED's in themselves....so truly, performance has neither been proven or otherwise. This also leads me to take all answers with a grain of salt since it's speculation on previous experience with a similar but different item, therefore leading me to ask specifying or clarifying questions.

As I said, I very much appreciate all who have chimed in and now have an idea of what my future plans are.

You a funny kat. I like you. I tried telling you how to get more potency and yield and not spend anything.

 

[StoneyBud]

THANKS Stoney, this is info I can use!!! I wondered about body lighting when in budding, but have heard others do it with success so wondered if this was a good option! I'm taking it the info I was shown on the unit needing to be a certain distance away from the plant was hype, too many are telling me LED's don't throw useful light that far.

Ok, so this brings me to my next question....discard the already used 400w HSP body lighting? I have it vertically hung between the plants...which brings me to this question...what about vert lighting, wouldn't this too cause competitive stretch??

MUCH appreciated, Stoney, this is what I have been looking for!!! Rep coming to you, my friend!

The competitive growth problem is an odd thing to get your head wrapped around. In nature, when another plant germinates and grows immediately next to a plant that was there first, the sunlight that strikes the second plant will reflect to the *underside* of the leaves of the plant next to it. This is seen by the plant as competition for sunlight and the plant will produce stem elongation hormones that will result in the plant *rapidly* growing taller than it's "competitor".

When vertical lighting is used from the initial growth of a plant or group of plants, the leaves will almost immediately turn to the most strong lighting. Then, the *tops* of the leaves will be facing the light, not the bottom.

Vertical lighting will, by its very nature, also causes a degree of competitive lighting. Yes, height growth will be increased. It can't help but be. Other add-on hormones can be used to counter this result and make the plant more bushy.

Top lighting, even when done from the sides using a reflector to keep the light pointing downward, is best for the plant when considering all aspects of the desired end result in terms of overall growth, harvest weight of just the buds and the time taken to grow to harvest.

Yes, LEDs have a light throw of only 18 inches MAXIMUM. This isn't to say that the light at 18 inches is as good as the light at 4 inches. LEDs work best at about 4 to 6 inches from the leaves they are lighting.

If one were to have two rooms, and use vertical lighting on one plant and in the other room use only top lighting with side lighting done with reflectors to avoid competitive growth, the plant with no competitive lighting would grow shorter, bushier and have more nodes per/linear inch than the one dealing with competitive growth.

I've seen both and that is the results that I've seen. I'm sure there are those who will argue my conclusions, but that's ok. The final decision is yours to make.

 

[Roddy]

You a funny kat. I like you. I tried telling you how to get more potency and yield and not spend anything.

lol Trust me, I'm already exploring those avenues as well...covering all bases here. I'm playing with LST, have been topping a few plants here and there and may eventually even try scrog or (yikes) hydro...I'm wide open to finding the best way to grow.

As for the Cali seeds....I'm just a bit hesitant at making the jump from fems to regs...almost bought some Larry on the last order, but couldn't force myself. What's your male/fem rate with them, if I may ask? My problem is, I don't have the luxury of waiting the plant out to sex maturity and find she's a he.

 

[Roddy]

The competitive growth problem is an odd thing to get your head wrapped around. In nature, when another plant germinates and grows immediately next to a plant that was there first, the sunlight that strikes the second plant will reflect to the *underside* of the leaves of the plant next to it. This is seen by the plant as competition for sunlight and the plant will produce stem elongation hormones that will result in the plant *rapidly* growing taller than it's "competitor".

When vertical lighting is used from the initial growth of a plant or group of plants, the leaves will almost immediately turn to the most strong lighting. Then, the *tops* of the leaves will be facing the light, not the bottom.

Vertical lighting will, by its very nature, also causes a degree of competitive lighting. Yes, height growth will be increased. It can't help but be. Other add-on hormones can be used to counter this result and make the plant more bushy.

Top lighting, even when done from the sides using a reflector to keep the light pointing downward, is best for the plant when considering all aspects of the desired end result in terms of overall growth, harvest weight of just the buds and the time taken to grow to harvest.

Yes, LEDs have a light throw of only 18 inches MAXIMUM. This isn't to say that the light at 18 inches is as good as the light at 4 inches. LEDs work best at about 4 to 6 inches from the leaves they are lighting.

If one were to have two rooms, and use vertical lighting on one plant and in the other room use only top lighting with side lighting done with reflectors to avoid competitive growth, the plant with no competitive lighting would grow shorter, bushier and have more nodes per/linear inch than the one dealing with competitive growth.

I've seen both and that is the results that I've seen. I'm sure there are those who will argue my conclusions, but that's ok. The final decision is yours to make.

Hmmm, I typed out a response and thought I hit reply, replied to NC and find I didn't reply at all?? OK, I'll try again lol...

This may be a dumb question, but are we talking strictly the bud room here? The bud room is where I am considering the body lighting.

I know what you mean on the plants beside each other comment, seen this a lot!

 

[StoneyBud]

This may be a dumb question, but are we talking strictly the bud room here? The bud room is where I am considering the body lighting.

The only truly "dumb question" is the question not asked. We all have blind spots in our education. When filling those missing parts of knowledge, no questions asked could be fairly considered "dumb".

That said, the stem elongation hormone can be spawned during any part of the plants life. When it increases during flowering, it's especially harmful to the final harvest weight.

What happens is the inter-nodal spacing increases. This will decrease the amount of budding sites. It also slows the flowering while the plant expends its resources on stem elongation instead of using 100% of its resources on creating flowers.

 

[Roddy]

OK, here's what I think will be the last on this then...adding the vert lighting to an already well-lit room won't improve, it will hamper? Does having lower wattage body lighting help since it's not beating out the primary? Essentially, should I move my 400w HPS overhead lol

 

[nouvellechef]

Ok. I dont know where this thread is going. But I am just gonna show pics and end any debate on whether more stretch occurs, its inefficient, etc. This is a no joke room. Straight up light shining straight up the plant from the underside. You be the judge.

 

[Locked]

That be a big boy room fo sho nchef.....man oh man