dont mention LED's

[gourmet]

As long as there was going to be a journal comparison grow or like, I have an open mind on this. However, if that is bailed on, then I grow suspicious. Sorry, just my nature.

 

[P Jammers]

Regardless whether LEDs work for growing I'm kinda surprised that no one has mentioned one of the better reasons for not considering them: because they are unnatural and simply do not replicate mother nature.

To me the goal of the indoor grower is to try to achieve parity with mother nature. The aim is not to create a false environment - but rather to mimic a natural eco environment on a small scale which the planet offers plants as a matter of course. Consistent temps within seasons, a finite light pattern, and the nutrients required for healthy growth. In indoor gardening you to not create a false environment to make your plants happy - you try to duplicate/simulate the outdoor environment as closely as you can.

However in the LED world you choose to falsify the light source(s) using visible color spectrums simply not available or common to nature. I know of no where on the earthen planet where visible red light is consistent or common; or blue, or green or whatever. Just as a healthy diet includes more than one single food source, balanced health for plants and the plant vigor we all seek comes from a subtle mix of light spectrum. Not one primary spectrum which simply does not occur in nature.

The only functional light source - at the moment - which approximates the balanced spectrum required for healthy growth is HID lighting. We do not switch to red bulbs for flowering. Why would we?

Why not try putting a red theater gel on your halide or HPS if red light is the sole key to success? Maybe its because the plants will suffer from the un-natural light source you expect them to live under. They may survive - but they will not be robust, and will offer weak results compared to other light sources.

Just an opinion...

Nice post with different perspective. The following is taken from a site I stay in tune with. Perhaps you'll find the info useful.


Scientists around the world have been studying issues related to how plants use light colors for photosynthesis for over 70 years. Now research into the effectiveness of photosynthesis in various light conditions has answered some of the most important questions. It has shown that plants efficiently adapt their leaves to the light colors present where they grow. In this way they use the available light as effectively as possible. The research also demonstrated how specific combinations of various light colors result in more photosynthesis than the sum of the individual light colors. This insight is relevant, among other things, for minimizing energy consumption in the lighting of horticultural greenhouses. Moreover, the scientists discovered that leaf pigments not directly involved in photosynthesis ‘dissipate’ light. While these non-photosynthetic pigments do absorb light, they do not use it for photosynthesis. This discovery could lead to the development of plants that produce more food by reducing the amount of these non-photosynthetic pigments. This mainly applies to ‘protected’ cultivation, such as in greenhouses, as at least some of the non-photosynthetic pigments have a protective function, for instance against too much UV light or insect damage. These factors are less relevant in indoor cultivation than in open fields. Scientists from Wageningen UR and research agency Plant Lighting of first author Sander Hogewoning are currently working on translating the new knowledge into applicable innovations. The research was supported by STW, NWO, Philips, Plant Dynamics BV, VU University Amsterdam, the Product Board for Horticulture, and the Dutch Ministry of Economic Affairs, Agriculture and Innovation.

So now ask yourself which light is going to be easier and more cost effective to produce the colors they find will work best to out perform the sun.

These scientists are right on my heels I tell ya, right on my heels.

 

[nvthis]

Also.... Visible light in the em field occupies something like 3.5 X 10-9 divided by 10^19 of the entire spectrum. That's less than a millionth of one percent. In other words, if a light "looks" green or red or whatever, it wouldn't necessarliy have the weight of value we, as humans, perceive.

(hehe.. I just sounded pretty damn smart right there, didn't I? :huh: )

 

[Locked]

Good info PJ...I am not trying to mimic mother nature in my tents. If that was the case I would not veg 24-0. I am trying to improve on nature and trying to maximize the plants potential. The more we understand things the more we can improve upon them.

 

[Roddy]

Where the hell do you shop, bro?

Sorry, meant 3/around $800, sorry. Actually, 6 complete setups for $1300 +/-


hXXp://www.virtualsunhydroponics.com/Agricultural/products/VS1000WRMS-3.asp?rt=2

 

[nvthis]

Sorry, meant 3/around $800, sorry. Actually, 6 complete setups for $1300 +/-


hXXp://www.virtualsunhydroponics.com/Agricultural/products/VS1000WRMS-3.asp?rt=2

Haha, yeah.. That one made me have to stop and think a minute

 

[Roddy]

Great info here, hope to see a side by......

 

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

Yeah bro, but after 70 years those agro light scientists don't seem to have come up with a whole lot of new or unique solutions. Included in those 70 years NASA went wacko and spent millions on research of hydroponic horticulture and lighting in the 70's to the 90's. They use HIDs for their ground installations. I like NASA. They make nice spaceships. I want one.

:icon_smile:

Nice post with different perspective. The following is taken from a site I stay in tune with. Perhaps you'll find the info useful.

Scientists around the world have been studying issues related to how plants use light colors for photosynthesis for over 70 years. [snip]...

So now ask yourself which light is going to be easier and more cost effective to produce the colors they find will work best to out perform the sun.

These scientists are right on my heels I tell ya, right on my heels.

 

[pcduck]

Tell you what, put up a thread. We'll do a similar strain, and update week by week in a journal. Not only will I do it faster I'll out yield you and we'll show the little world here just how clueless you really are. We flip at the same time.

That goes for anyone here who wants to do a comparison and show results out in the open.

Keep on Quackin on duck. Put up, or Shut u time.

And just for the record, I do not run anywhere near 99 plants nor do I LST any strain that would not need it under any lights.

You're going off some Mis-Quoting that Novellchef made on this site. I have never said anyone would need to grow single cola plants, and have never posted a pic of one ever.

I have close to 30 strains I have completed under LED's all completely documented, and your going to sit up here and talk this jive.

Please, you're an absolute disgrace to this community, and an extremely rude person with a very creative imagination. Nothing more, nothing less.

If you have nothing further to add, get that thread going and lets do this.

Are are you really just a chicken? :hubba:

Cluck Cluck


For others who are more interested in facts, this is a very low yielding Purple Diesel plant that I did under LED's anyway. It's actually done better under LED's over HPS and quite outstanding. I am sure NVthis can comment if anyone has a dispute about this particular pheno.

View attachment 196469

pjammers it is quite obvious you are not familiar with the term put up or shut up. That was directed towards all these led growers that make all these false claims then fail to prove it. Now I am not saying you proved anything, as like I said I have not met you, do not know you, nor do I care to know you but with your actions on this forum, I would suspect you would do anything to prove your point. This would include using a hps at the same time as a led. Not say you do, but you might because I do not trust or know you. Got it.... And I guess we will all just have to take your word that you ran the test and eta and they were observed my an independent observer so that we know everything was legit? I have stepped away to let you prove your point but that is not enough you two have to go into name calling and eta...Now who is the disgrace?

I did not go to your web site and cause all this drama, I did not call anyone any names. But it is ok for you and your gang to come here and call us closed minded, big mouths,chicken and be antagonistic? Go back and read the thread I was not the one that left pouting just because a member asked a question he didn't like. My.... my who was the chicken then? and scared to post until he got his gang together? Tried to make us feel sorry for him cause hes old. Go back and read the thread and show me where I said they would not work? Bet you can't. I said they were lacking and just because one person might have had a successful grow does not mean they are a success..lol..

If anyone is a disgrace it is you and my my for your childish behavior. How can anyone take the two of you serious with that kind of behavior?

But the 2 of ya are funny I will say that :rofl:

Even funnier pjammers is, you were not even posting when AM was on his soapbox and now it looks like you are just upset that I did not run on over to cannetics and look at your grow thread.:rofl:

You were asked in a kind way to check out my threads at another board you are a member of.

You guys really are a hoot:rofl:

 

[Growdude]

Drawing no, producing yes in short. A quick Google search will explain how that works.

I did a search and found out the Apollo 10 is 350 watts, so 10 are drawing the same current as your HPS setups.

I can see the equal wattage setups producing equal results.

 

[Rosebud]

I am sad PJ left again. I enjoyed him 2 years ago and would like for him to be a regular here. But I guess he can't stay. That is very sad for MP. The guy has some knowledge.

Geez, Peter, think about it.

 

[NorCalHal]

That goes for anyone here who wants to do a comparison and show results out in the open

For others who are more interested in facts, this is a very low yielding Purple Diesel plant that I did under LED's anyway. It's actually done better under LED's over HPS and quite outstanding. I am sure NVthis can comment if anyone has a dispute about this particular pheno.

View attachment 196469

I'll take that challenge.

Not knocking LED's at all, but I too grew the same pheno Purp Diesel as you have and it was far from a low yeilder...coke cans.

Now I ain't wanting to grow Purp diesel again, thats for sure, I hated that herb.

I agree with you Jammers, LED's are not for everyone, but I do think they would perform well for folks in smaller set ups and closely monitored.
For me, costs are the killer. Shoot man, I just switched to digi's haha.

But that was quite a challenge and claim you made. Basically, you stated you would outgrow anyone, better yeild and faster with LED's. I have much respect for you sir, but I call **.
If for one minuate you think that lights is what makes a grower sucessful, you are mistaken sir. Many,many factors.

 

[nvthis]

I too grew the same pheno Purp Diesel as you have

Not sayin' it ain't so, but how did that happen? I know we both got ours from Cali, but hardly from the same source. That, I know, is a fact.

Reason I say is more and more seed born PD's are coming out of the woodwork anymore. But, I digress, your point is easily seen .

Were those coke cans from hydro? I am guessing it must have been, and you must have blown it up proper too.. Cuz the PD we have been running has been OD this year, and I cannot say there are any coke cans out there, even on trees under the sun.. If we were on the same pheno, that would be totally surprizing, possibly even shocking.

On a side note, it's interesting how you hated it.. I get ribbed a lot cuz there are a few flavors I cannot tolerate. Like Cheese. Man, I can't stand that ****. Oh, or the worst of all. Pine tree weed. If it smells like pine, I don't want it anywhere near me. I am completely repulsed by it, yet, of course, it is extremely popular. You are the first person I've seen who has said they hated PD.. Man, humans are a trip

 

[ston-loc]

Nothing useful to add to this thread but a :chillpill:
Trimmed all day, and gotta say, this plant is an amazing thing regardless of how one gets an ends to their means... To each their own :48:

 

[P Jammers]

I am sad PJ left again. I enjoyed him 2 years ago and would like for him to be a regular here. But I guess he can't stay. That is very sad for MP. The guy has some knowledge.

Geez, Peter, think about it.

Not the building, just the thread guys.
:hubba:

In case you missed that Rose.

 

[NorCalHal]

Not sayin' it ain't so, but how did that happen? I know we both got ours from Cali, but hardly from the same source. That, I know, is a fact.

Reason I say is more and more seed born PD's are coming out of the woodwork anymore. But, I digress, your point is easily seen .

Were those coke cans from hydro? I am guessing it must have been, and you must have blown it up proper too.. Cuz the PD we have been running has been OD this year, and I cannot say there are any coke cans out there, even on trees under the sun.. If we were on the same pheno, that would be totally surprizing, possibly even shocking.

On a side note, it's interesting how you hated it.. I get ribbed a lot cuz there are a few flavors I cannot tolerate. Like Cheese. Man, I can't stand that ****. Oh, or the worst of all. Pine tree weed. If it smells like pine, I don't want it anywhere near me. I am completely repulsed by it, yet, of course, it is extremely popular. You are the first person I've seen who has said they hated PD.. Man, humans are a trip

Haha..ya man, I'm a freak, I hate purp herb, just a taste thing for me.
My bad, I thought it was one of the flavs I hooked u up back a couple years ago. I threw that cut to alot of folks. I think it came from HS. So, it prob is a different pheno.
I have seen the pheno I had grown by quite a few folks, and for whatever reason, it turned out huge for me. On that same pheno, my friend had some of the smallest nugs I have seen from her. She was totally wffected by temp, the cooler the temp, the less yeild. You have to run higher temps until the last couple of weeks to get fat nug I found.

I know, I know, pictures worth a thousand words, but alas, I don't have any of those grows anymore man.

Hit me up NV btw, I am heading up North quite often lately, we should hook up.

 

[nvthis]

for whatever reason, it turned out huge for me..

That's because you are a sick, sick man with insane skills.... I'll drop ya a pm later, bro

 

[sunakard2000]

just as a note im currently using 2 135watt LED UFOs with 45 3watt LED chips per UFO... iv said this in a few posts but seeing as this is an LED specific thread ill update in a few weeks as well... i havnt kept a super good record of my full grow since my camera sucks big time, how ever i have used these 2 UFOs from sprout > veg > and now flowering. i started off with the LEDs cuz they were actually pretty cheap and cost effective on electricity consumption so i thought F-it why not lets do this... im currently a little over 2 weeks into flowering, infact today is day 21, iv already got some good growth, pretty close in comparison to my friend whos strictly using T5/HPS for his veg/flower, at my 2 week mark my plant is closely resembling his plants, nickle to quarter sized popcorn buds on the lower 2/3 of growth (both of us trimmed the lower 1/3 of the plant at around week 1.5/2 as the lower branches wernt doing anything flowering wise) so the lower 2/3 of whats left on the plants... the top 1/3 has quarter sized popcorn buds and a good healthy Kola about .5-1inch across and about 5-6 inches+ tall... not bad for only 19 days... i am buying a HPS setup for about $200 in a few weeks but i WILL NOT be using it for this grow, i want to see just what kinda of "balls" these UFOs actually have. so keep an eye out ill be updating a few threads with a few pics of about 1 week from harvest as well as the harvest with weight stats wet&dry. im sure its not gonna be AS close as an HPS but so far im liking what i see... and $7 a month on my electric bill for running my 2 UFOs, fan and Co2 bucket aint bad lol... ill let yall know my thoughts on everything reguarding these UFOs after my harvest...

as always stay safe and much green mojo my friends

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

How about some pics as you are going along so we can see bud development from week to week?

 

[sunakard2000]

sure... its gonna be about 2-3 weeks into flowering... just finished a job so ill be getting paid in the next few days, ill update asap