dont mention LED's

[BackWoodsDrifter]

Poppa use to always say "Start no chit, and there will be no chit"

I tend to agree.

Smart man he was I bet. Mine always said "Best way to avoid trouble is not to be there"

BWD

 

[BackWoodsDrifter]

I joined MP Feb 2012 be bout the best site I ever travelled trails in. I enjoy the friends and fires I have sat by here at MP thanks for that.

BWD

 

[P Jammers]

Smart man he was I bet. Mine always said "Best way to avoid trouble is not to be there"

BWD

And if I am keeping it real, I knew better then to come on this board, and expect anything less than the way this thread went, but I at least tried.

Judging by the PM's I received, I know the info was helpful to a few.

And for me, that's what's important.

 

[BackWoodsDrifter]

And if I am keeping it real, I knew better then to come on this board, and expect anything less than the way this thread went, but I at least tried.

Judging by the PM's I received, I know the info was helpful to a few.

And for me, that's what's important.

No disrespect my friend I enjoy new topics and I be sure to watch the evolution of the LED grows as I believe they will evolve to great things once smart folk get them dialed in just right. thanks for sharing and educatin folks to yur ways.

BWD

 

[Melvan]

I am Melvan. I have always been Melvan, and you know darn well who I am.

Roddy the only reason I came here today is because I was hearing talk about how you were behaving. You're getting quite the rep for being condescending and rude. I really didn't believe it at first, as some of the accusers have the same rep themselves. But now that I've read a few threads I believe.

I remember when you were so new to the forums that you were posting pics of yourself with your plants, showing your face, and I had to tell you to delete them.

Anyone who wasn't a member the date the site reset to when it came back up had to re-register, including me, that's why there are so many jan 2011 joiners.

I just can't express my disappointed in you. Wasted all that time with you for you to turn into this, you should be ashamed.

 

[BackWoodsDrifter]

Lol...that was funny as hell Rose. I was here before the crash, same account, same user name. That crash wiped out a lot of my pics....my fault for not backing them up. BWD I know you are someone from our past, just don't know who. Don't really matter so long as everyone is here with good intentions. It's one of the reasons I have never put anybody on Ignore. There is always time for someone to redeem themselves and turn over a new leaf.

LOL more I think bout it my friend Hammy why do you think I come from the past? What makes you think this pilgrem?

BWD

 

[Rosebud]

I am so done with this thread, but I would like to say that it has been nice to see niteshft, Melvin, and Peter back posting here.

I am old and very interested in lights that I will be able to lift and use in my really old age.( in 20 years) The LED may be that light. Thank you all.

 

[BackWoodsDrifter]

Hmmm It worked we aint to arguin anymore got everyone thinkin who we all are now. Now lets start healin gain

BWD

 

[Locked]

LOL more I think bout it my friend Hammy why do you think I come from the past? What makes you think this pilgrem?

BWD

Just a feeling.... Hell for all I know you could be Matt Riott.

 

[BackWoodsDrifter]

Who in the heck is Matt Riott?

BWD

 

[niteshft]

I have respect for all but it does come painfully obvious when someone just dont know when to let dead topics stay dead. I have noticed here at Mp that any topic with the "LED" in it have all been scetchy trails walked. I dont know why cause i have no experience with them but it appears they are not the fav here on this trail walkin so I dont walk them here. I hope yual gets over the issues and make for better nicer topics to chaw over.

BWD

First, I'll state that I was here before the crash by the same name my friend, BWD. LOL

As far as the LED bashing, early on, LED companys made rediculas claims (many still do) and many peeps got burned because of it, they just weren't ready yet. I stayed away from them no matter how sweet looking they were because of the warnings here but times are changing. I trust PJ very highly so when he took the plunge after vigorous research and contacting a company that was willing to work with him, giving him a product that worked, I decided to take that plunge myself.
When I started using LEDs, I put plants in flower that were cuts from the previous run and the improvement in quality, however slight, was obvious. I'll admit, I was relieved that I hadn't made a bad investment....even though I trusted PJ, there were just so many horror stories out there.
The peeps here deserve to be brought up to date as to where LEDs are and have a post to go to that weed out the bad. It's a shame the market is flooded with questionable to down right scams and people are going to continue to get burned, but that's the nature of the beast. At least here, we can have a post that showcases grows done by members. Alltho it's possible, I don't think a member is going to post ficticious grows claiming they were done under LEDs but in actuality HIDs were used. (PERIOD) There are members here that have been with us for a long time and I'm sure they would call anyone out that looked suspicious. Personally, I just don't see it happening.

How about a thread that showcases grows only but also have a companion thread, " LEDs...Questions And Answers", where those using LEDs or have expereance with them, (you don't have to be using one to gain expereance), can answer questions anyone may have? Or at least try to. I think having one place with grows done with various LEDs for comparason and another for questions and chat would help to keeps things simpler.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

:yeahthat: Thanks niteshift, good post.

This has been an incredibly informative thread and I would love to see it get back on track. So everyone, let's see if we can do that and get along like adults. I want to thank P.J., my my, niteshift and any others who contributed their personal experiences. We do hear too much hype, which makes everyone leery.

Now, everyone let's just kick back and have a smoke together.

:48: :bong2: :bong: :smoke1: :joint: :vap_smiley:

 

[BackWoodsDrifter]

Here here! Said mighty fine and to the point as it should be. Good luck to all grows out there no matter hows yual grows we all grows the same thing mj.

BWD

 

[Locked]

:yeahthat: Thanks niteshift, good post.

This has been an incredibly informative thread and I would love to see it get back on track. So everyone, let's see if we can do that and get along like adults. I want to thank P.J., my my, niteshift and any others who contributed their personal experiences. We do hear too much hype, which makes everyone leery.

Now, everyone let's just kick back and have a smoke together.

:48: :bong2: :bong: :smoke1: :joint: :vap_smiley:

:yeahthat:

Niteshft, thanks again bro. I appreciate you guys putting yourselves out there and sharing your personal experiences with LED's. Depending on my tax return I will be giving LED's a try. Do I think I am going to find a replacement for my HID lighting? No. Do I think I might be able to compliment my grows and maybe, just maybe not have to shut down in the Summer? Yes. I would love to see another LED thread without all the negativity. I understand the skepticism, but I am open minded and at the end of the day I can make an informed decision.

 

[niteshft]

If you've been reading this thread right along you know I've been having issues that may be related to these lights. I had mentioned I disabled 2 of the panels on my 6 panel light, the Apollo 6. (I called the panels fixtures or something previously) I should check with the website and get my nominclature right if I am to do this properly. lol

Well, anyway, do I suggest you go right out and buy LEDs? No, unless you don't mind coming along for the ride with us and work together to tune in what works where and with what. I got into this realizing there is a risk with the unknown but seeing what PJ was getting made me feel comfortable things would work out.

My thoughts at the moment is that my issues are related to the plants being shocked going from T-5s to these LEDs. I've chopped the tops of 1 plant that got hit really hard and put it back into veg. The lower leaves were not effected and are ample enough to get the plant vegging again. When I first started using the LEDs my plants had been under a 1000w HPS for a couple of weeks and I noticed some bleaching/burning shortly after the swap. I feel that since plants allready conditioned to high intensity lamps could be stressed under the LEDs, it would most certainly be more stressfull for plants coming from T-5 conditioning. Alltho T-5s do provide ample light for vegging, they are much less harsh than HIDs and the branches further from thier bulbs are even more likely to be stressed under high intensity lights. And I kid you not, LEDs are high intensity and is a facinating techknology.
If I had set my lights up further from the plants, I might not have had a problem. I don't know and we will all find out together as this thread moves along. Someone posted that the issue was nute related and PJ agreed. I'm not ready to accept that and I've taken a different path. Either way, we will be learning and that's what's important.

DISCLOSURE: I'm (usually) stoned when I post here and I have my age on my side as an excuse as well, when I may leave out something important to what I might be trying to imply. I do always return and re-read my posts when I do and will make changes/additions accordingly.... :ccc: ....including this disclosure.

 

[Roddy]

As I said before niteshift, I do apologize for the way i pointed out what i saw as ironic, I do appreciate your input and those of others. I agree there needs a place with information and questions, a grow journal or two with LED grows would be cool as well!

My thoughts at the moment is that my issues are related to the plants being shocked going from T-5s to these LEDs. I've chopped the tops of 1 plant that got hit really hard and put it back into veg. The lower leaves were not effected and are ample enough to get the plant vegging again. When I first started using the LEDs my plants had been under a 1000w HPS for a couple of weeks and I noticed some bleaching/burning shortly after the swap. I feel that since plants allready conditioned to high intensity lamps could be stressed under the LEDs, it would most certainly be more stressfull for plants coming from T-5 conditioning. Alltho T-5s do provide ample light for vegging, they are much less harsh than HIDs and the branches further from thier bulbs are even more likely to be stressed under high intensity lights. And I kid you not, LEDs are high intensity and is a facinating techknology.

This part is another part I don't understand and maybe someone has an answer...how can the LED be weaker in throw but more powerful to the point it'll burn in different situations than HPS? I assume it isn't the heat from the lamps doing the burning.

ETA...someone stated wearing sunglasses in their LED grow, that and the statement above makes me wonder if maybe they're getting closer to the spectrum of light put off by the sun?

 

[DrFever]

wow there some rude remarks for sure And roddy i agree with most led's there not to crazy in power i mean a 90 watt ufo is probably 75 watts etc if it was actually tested i will post some pics emailed a friend to prove 99 percent of led's you buy are not actual wattage as specified so again from the other poster saying getting shock from changing from T5's to LED there is some other issue you got going on there
if you look in this pic i placed clones 2 - 3 " tall under 1000 watts 8 days ago on 12 /12 there not doing nothing but growing crazy and can guarntee you they went from under a dome t5's then to 1000 watt so can pretty much say a clone straight to a hid 1000 watt will do more damage then some 90 - 200 watt led

 

[niteshft]

Some (most of us) can be experienced with using lights, no matter if they are HIDs or LEDs and not be an expert on how or why they do what they do. We can see what we get for results when we change from wattage or types of lights but do we really understand why? There is some information out there that can explain it to a layman to some extent and it usually boils down to more wattage = bigger, tighter buds.

From what I've researched, the following is what I have concluded and is why I'm taking the approach that the light intensity is my issue at the moment and I will soon find out if it is the case or not. I'm just doing what I'm doing and reporting the facts whether I'm wrong or not....if I'm wrong, I have no problem with admitting it, just give me a chance to disprove myself. If I've been steered wrong with my research I'll admit it and move on.

The bleaching/burning isn't just caused by heat from the lamps, for the most part, but is thought so by many because of the heat that HIDs put out. It's actually caused by the intensity of the light put out by the lamps and is diminished the same way that heat is.....move the source further away. Now some might want to argue that statement and I expect it from expereance...but of coarse the lights will burn your plants if too, close even with T-5s. I know that and most everybody else knows that as well. When/if I get a chance I'll provide links to where I got my info for what I'm about to say.

HIDs are said to provide 10% of usable lite for plants and have been worked hard to improve their efficiency with limited success. HIDs are a design that is limited by how they work, adding chemicals or other metals to change their output drastically reduced their reliability and has stagnated to where they are today. The majority of their wattage is wasted in heat. Also, their light is cast in all directions with reflectors used in an attempt to capture the stray light and redirect it back to the plant. Some of the light is bounced of the white walls and is very beneficial.

LEDs, and few actually are, are said to put out 90% of light that is usable by the plant and is accomplished by the way LEDs work. There are varied recipes, dependent on what is needed for the type of light they put out and there are some companies that expend research dollars to do just that.

LEDs direct their light straight down rather than all around like HIDs and therefore direct their light directly toward the plant without the need for reflectors and may I say, the white walls, but I wouldn't omit them, that would be ridiculous. lol

Having that info and say you have a room that is lit by a 1000w HID for 6 plants that equals to 166+w per plant. Compare that with the 3w per LED the apollo uses 270w and I have one for each of my 6 plants for a total of 1620w. When you take into consideration that the LEDs are directing all that light directly toward the plant rather than being diffused like with HIDs, that is significant, imo and justifys my thinking.

Either way, I would like the oppertunity to work this out and make my findings available for everyone to use. As mentioned earlier, I disabled a couple of sections of each lamp so thier output is more like 180w ea and a total of 1080w and equivalant to Apollo 4s now, rather than Apollo 6s and would be beneficial to know. If you can get by with a lower wattage and cheaper lite you would like to know.

Like PJ always says and truly believes, I hope this information helps.

I hope I haven't missed anything but I'm doing my best.

niteshft

 

[ston-loc]

Question, so you are actually drawing 1080watts with the LED running? That's what confuses me, hearing 3watt chips, etc. How many "actual" watts are being pulled with these apollo fixtures? And how much compared to HID with equal results?

I've seen LED technology drastically improve over the last few years in lighting, as an electrician. As far as grows, this really does interest me.

 

[niteshft]

Question, so you are actually drawing 1080watts with the LED running? That's what confuses me, hearing 3watt chips, etc. How many "actual" watts are being pulled with these apollo fixtures? And how much compared to HID with equal results?

I've seen LED technology drastically improve over the last few years in lighting, as an electrician. As far as grows, this really does interest me.

I posted earlier what I was drawing using a watt-mizer with the LEDs but my HPS has been dissasembled and never got to check it. The 4 fans on the Apollo 6s draw wattage as well so that has to be taken into consideration but it wouldn't amount to much. imo

I've just disabled part of my lights and haven't used them enough to compare 1 on 1. My "gut" feeling tells me that you will be able to use a substansually less amount of wattage to get the same yield in an average grow. I'm thinking the Apollo 6s are an overkill for what I was targeting but it will be there for any expansion. I hope my thinking comes to fruition.