Cheese
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T
The Hemp Goddess
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Don't mean to rain on your parade. While it is not impossible to get 8 out of 8 females, the odds are really quite high. I just want you to keep an eye out. One hermie can ruin an entire grow.
I also do not understand how this statement can be true: "...I have been told that neither the plants nor the microbes can tell the difference between organic and chem ferts....". If the plants cannot tell the difference between chemical and organic ferts, why do organic grows not need to be pH'd and chemical ones do? Have you read or heard this from any other source than the guy at your hydro store? I am trying to learn about organics and everything I have read says that most microbes do not do well within chemical soils and with chemical nutes...I understood that it is not detrimental to the plant, it is just that the microbes cannot do their thing and it is therefore, while not detrimental, it is also not beneficial.
I also do not understand how this statement can be true: "...I have been told that neither the plants nor the microbes can tell the difference between organic and chem ferts....". If the plants cannot tell the difference between chemical and organic ferts, why do organic grows not need to be pH'd and chemical ones do? Have you read or heard this from any other source than the guy at your hydro store? I am trying to learn about organics and everything I have read says that most microbes do not do well within chemical soils and with chemical nutes...I understood that it is not detrimental to the plant, it is just that the microbes cannot do their thing and it is therefore, while not detrimental, it is also not beneficial.
Why would chem nutes damage or inhibit microbs from doing their thing? Chem nutes are so identical to organics that the plant can't tell the difference, and ferts (chem or organic) do not react with microbes. They react with the roots no matter what kind of ferts are being used. If someone has done a study I'd like to read about their conclusions. Is there a test for microbial life in soil? I know FFoF comes with microbes and I added Bat Guanno, bone meal, blood meal, calcium -- are you saying that GH 3 part nutes neutralize or kill the active microbs? I don't think so..., but I can be schooled 
Lemon Jack
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I am by no means an expert but I am almost positive that I read that using the chemical nutes would kill off the microbes. I could be wrong let me see if I can find the post somewhere I know it was on here. . . . . .
T
The Hemp Goddess
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Hemper, you keep saying that plants cannot tell the difference between chemical and organic nutes. I do not believe that that is a correct statement. I am just wondering where you got that? I have never heard or read that anywhere.
I, like Lemon Jack am also pretty sure that I have read that chemical nutrients will kill microbes in the soil. I also do not believe that microbes interact with the roots--I think they make the nutrients more available to the plants (the reason that you do not worry about pH in organic grows). However, I am just starting to learn about organics and I could be way off base here...maybe someone who has done a bunch of organics can assist us.....
I, like Lemon Jack am also pretty sure that I have read that chemical nutrients will kill microbes in the soil. I also do not believe that microbes interact with the roots--I think they make the nutrients more available to the plants (the reason that you do not worry about pH in organic grows). However, I am just starting to learn about organics and I could be way off base here...maybe someone who has done a bunch of organics can assist us.....
You can over nute with chem nutes -- difficult to do with organics, and over nuting probably would have an adverse affect on microbes, But, I'm thinking, if the nutes are right (either chem or organic) then the microbes will be happy.
R
Rosebud
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Ok, what little bit i know is this. There are tons of microbes in the soil. Some die when exposed to air, some don't..there are also tons of types of microbes. Certain chemicals will kill certain microbes. They will not wipe out whole colonies but lower their numbers.
So the answer is yes and no. how's that?
So the answer is yes and no. how's that?
The word "chemical" has a negative conotation, but when talking about nutrients we are talking nitrates, phospherous, potasium and all the other metals and salts that plants need to grow. Chemical nutes are designed to provide everything the plant needs -- and they work well. What is there in chemical nutrients that will kill microbes? --
Okay, there are a lot of things in chem nutes that might kill microbes, but my contention is that if used responsibly chemical nutes will work along with the microbes in soil just as well as organics. I believe this is a very important discussion -- new growers deserve to know. It has been a question in the back of my mind since I began this odyssey. I have even switched up with chem and organic nutes to see for myself -- no difference -- the plants seemed to enjoy the change in diet. I don't belirve my microbes are any the worse for wear either
Peace
Peace
Being pretty sure you have read something... doesn't do it for me. What did you read? Who wrote it? I'm thinking it was probably an organic grower back in the day. I am a master of microbes. I have piles of microbes hanging out waiting for a hit off the vape -- on the vape -- OMG, they are everywhere... Perhaps I should sprinkle some GH 3 part nutes around the boat.... LOL
R
Rosebud
Guest
I can see your microbes from here.
when i was learning about microbes it was in relation to soil. I have nothing to site as none of my reading at that time was about microbes in marijuana cultivation. Besides when I look at organic vs chem nutes, it has little to do with a side by side study but more a philosophy that i choose to live by. i will give it to you that a side by side study would reveal little difference physically between the two. Why don't you do one?
when i was learning about microbes it was in relation to soil. I have nothing to site as none of my reading at that time was about microbes in marijuana cultivation. Besides when I look at organic vs chem nutes, it has little to do with a side by side study but more a philosophy that i choose to live by. i will give it to you that a side by side study would reveal little difference physically between the two. Why don't you do one?
Rosy, you always crack me up. What you say is exactly my point. The decision to grow organic is philosophic, not because it doesn't kill beneficial microbes, but because you feel better doing it that way. I'm just saying, we need to keep an open mind. New growers need to hear that there are some things still up in the air, and some things that require further inspection . JMO
HF
HF
so you don't have to worry about PH in organic grows?!?!
in normal tree bonsai it is now the thing to add mycorrhizae (i have been assuming these are the microbes everyone is talking about?) to the soil - and most people use chemical fertilizers for bonsai trees. you can actually see the mychorrhizae growth on some species when you transplant them (like black pine), so the chems are not killing them. I have no idea if this applies to mj.
there is another organics vs chems question - according to someone who knows their stuff, organic nutes only become available to a plant at higher soil temps - like over 65F (i don't remember the specific numbers) and chemical ones will work down into the low 50's. Also don't know if this applies to mj.
in normal tree bonsai it is now the thing to add mycorrhizae (i have been assuming these are the microbes everyone is talking about?) to the soil - and most people use chemical fertilizers for bonsai trees. you can actually see the mychorrhizae growth on some species when you transplant them (like black pine), so the chems are not killing them. I have no idea if this applies to mj.
there is another organics vs chems question - according to someone who knows their stuff, organic nutes only become available to a plant at higher soil temps - like over 65F (i don't remember the specific numbers) and chemical ones will work down into the low 50's. Also don't know if this applies to mj.
T
The Hemp Goddess
Guest
LOL, Hemper "Being pretty sure you have read something... doesn't do it for me." It doesn't do it for me either. Antecdotal stuff is also pretty insignificant.
This article is pretty good and addresses some of this: hXXp://www.organicgardeningguru.com/fertilizers.html
Here is something that talks about chemicals and microbes: "Chemical fertilizers will not improve the structure of the soil. In fact, because they are composed of high concentrations of mineral salts, they are capable of killing off many of the soil organisms that are responsible for decomposition, and soil formation. If only chemicals are added, the soil gradually loses its organic matter and microbiotic activity."
I'm going to keep reading. Organics is kind of my "winter project" (my barrel composter is coming along nicely. I changed my mind mid-stream when I found some neat free things I could use).
This article is pretty good and addresses some of this: hXXp://www.organicgardeningguru.com/fertilizers.html
Here is something that talks about chemicals and microbes: "Chemical fertilizers will not improve the structure of the soil. In fact, because they are composed of high concentrations of mineral salts, they are capable of killing off many of the soil organisms that are responsible for decomposition, and soil formation. If only chemicals are added, the soil gradually loses its organic matter and microbiotic activity."
I'm going to keep reading. Organics is kind of my "winter project" (my barrel composter is coming along nicely. I changed my mind mid-stream when I found some neat free things I could use).
lump, that was a cool thing to say -- thanks -- the Cheese IS looking pretty good. I wish some of you were in the area so I could gift a couple of them -- I don't see how I can make room for all of them. I have seen tents chock-a-block full, and I suppose that's what I'll do instead of tossing any out, but I sure didn't expect them all to be female -- phenominal genetics.
THG -- hey, as long as the discussion is still open I feel good about things. I truly believe chems and organics can be used sucessfully and beneficially together.
THG -- hey, as long as the discussion is still open I feel good about things. I truly believe chems and organics can be used sucessfully and beneficially together.
R
Rosebud
Guest
But why mix them?
T
The Hemp Goddess
Guest
I am a little confused as to why you believe that? I can find nothing anywhere that does not indicate that chemical nutes can and will kill microbes in the soil.
I also would not overcrowd the flowering tent. I know that it can be hard to destroy plants, but overcrowding is detrimental to good growth and increases your odds of mold and mildew.
I also would not overcrowd the flowering tent. I know that it can be hard to destroy plants, but overcrowding is detrimental to good growth and increases your odds of mold and mildew.
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