anyone interested in talking about raw salts

[bagabones]

here is a pic of what hydro buddy looks like... I simply punch in the numbers I want for each element down the left column

tell the program if I want and A&B 2 part or direct addition to the res
how many gallons I want to make

click "carry out calculation"

and the program will provide the exact amount of each raw powder dry fertilizer to make the requested ratio

 

[bagabones]

so I used the first spread sheet to figure out what the General hydroponics 3 part actual feeding ratio and then

I went to hydro buddy to copy it

so you can mix your own fertilizer to match any of the brands sold at the hydro store

if you like advanced nutes.. then pulg it in and make your own
if you like general hydro .. make your own

and without the risk of snake oils like PGRs that cause illness that they sneak in to most of there stuff

 

[hippy59]

im gonna take a look at this program and will likely have a ton of questions. I grow in cocoa so should be similar to you

 

[hippy59]

major elements I use

all of which can be purchased at crop king or custom hydro nutrients or at your local farmers co op

calcium nitrate yara green house grade
magnesium nitrate
potassium nitrate
mono potassium phosphate

potassium sulfate
magnesium sulfate (aka Epsom salt)

potassium chloride

then you have the micros

you have 2 options

A) use a micro nutrient mix that is pre-blended / good for directly adding into res (not good for concentrated liquid premix)

B) measure each micro nutrient individually (only method for mixing liquid concentrates)



most hobby gardeners who mix there own use the direct addition method

most commercial garden farmers use at least 2 injectors with a 2 part concentrate, one injector per consentrate

like this;
http://www.gemplers.com/product/WEB192225/Dosatron-Fertilizer-Injectors

if you got the $1000 the injectors are the boss

no more res changes no more ph adjustment no more root disease no more air stones no pump except your well pump if your on a well

example of 2 part injector system:
2 trash can each holding 30 gallons of concentrate
the mixing ratio is 1:128 which is 1 oz per gallon

meaning it takes 1 ounce of each of the 2 concentrates to make 1 gallon of nutrient solution

all together youll get 3840 gallons of solution for what might cost $25 maybe...
honestly the raw salts are so cheap and last so long ive never done the math to compare the cost of store bought junk

is this the type of thing for a small gardener to use? like 10-12 plants at a time? ( in cocoa )would this be a complete nute solution? I will be mixing about 10 gallons at a time based on what they consumed on average during the smaller runs. I have just over a year under my belt doing smaller grows tring to work all the little bugs out.

 

[bagabones]

mixing direct addition is difficult in small reseviors of less than 100gallons

you could mix a concentrate and cut it but it would prevent you the ease of changing the ratio thru out

if you switched to a drain to waste system and mixed larger batches of nutes it would make more sense

one of the benefits is I don't ever have root rot... my roots are as white as white the day I harvest

the other benefit to me is I don't worry about adjusting the ph except 1x and it stays where I set it... so I don't need to check on the garden as frequently

the larger the res... the less frequently you need to check it

 

[bagabones]

10- 12 plants of what size?

whats the space and how many watts?

if your growing monster size plants and not running organic and have the space for a large tank

then drain to waste is for you

 

[bagabones]

really its about the tank size

you could get a 100+ gallon tank (which would last a while)

mix your own direct addition nutes

let it drain to waste

and spend less on fertilizer

have healthier roots and plants

if you only use 100 gallons every 2 weeks then you could adjust your ratio thru each 2 week period

for example for the
first res (weeks 1+2 ) you might feed npk 100-40-120
second res (weeks 3+4) npk 80-50-120
third res (weeks 5+6) npk 60-60-120
firth res (week) 7+8 npk 50-65-130

or something like that

I would sit in front of the scale weighing in grams all four res changes
for the entire grow up front before I begin flower

using baggies and bags separating and labeling each week

so when the res is close to empty I just add another 100 gallons and dump in the bags appropriately

set my ph and I done for 2 weeks

100% healthy roots no need for hygrozyme or anything like it

no chance in using products that have plant growth regulators hidden in them

also another wonderful benefit... your res stays clean

the nute mix is crystal clear or slightly foggy clear and your res will not need to be cleaned except 1x between grows





youll need a descent size air pump for 100 gallons

the glass air stones are worth the money

one more thingy... if you wanted you could set your plants on the floor without having to worry about draining nutes back into the res your able to keep the pots very low to the floor

 

[bagabones]

you will likely end up using about 1/3 more water running dtw

something else to consider

you could get more prolific growth mixing your coco to drain faster and watering more often while using the drain to waste (DTW)

the ferts become so cheap

a faster draining medium would allow you to water more frequently and end up requiring a lower EC or ppm and provide more O2 to the roots

watering more frequently will create them to eat more .. as long as you can keep the medium from being soggy

but rockwool might be better suited for this type of thing... I have no experience with coco

if I was running coco I might be more interested in trying some organics

but for me in my experience organic and hydro don't mesh well

 

[bagabones]

While I'm very excited about the prospect of using raw salts and have read into mixing my own 2 or even 3 part nutrient profiles in the past. I'm currently far too busy to look too deeply into this just at the moment, I'm pulling 12hr days harvesting and also preparing to close down both of my grow sites and relocate. I'm busy busy busy.


I've read about the "Hoaland" formula in the past and know that it's a long standing nutrient dating back to the 1930s, is the profile of Hoaland similar to Lucas that I currently favour ?


I also personally do not advocate "run to waste" hydroponic systems as far to many nitrates and phosphates are already entering our water sources from intensive farming methods.

oops I got them crossed....

you are correct dtw might put fractionally more fertilizer waste intot the environment

you are using 1/3 more water but I could likely use less if I was more thoughtful

I could also switch to coco and use considerably less water

but also consider I am able to feed a much lower EC than most using this method and that does off set the waste ... not fully

but I also consider that my waste isn't full of plant growth regulators that have been banned in many states and yet still sold without our knowledge

if the environment is the consideration organic soil is the only real answer... otherwise your waste isn't much different than mine

 

[bagabones]

Ive grown in Coco and used much the same watering frequency as I do with rockwool and grew, predominately, organically, veg and marijuana, for over 15yrs before switching to hydroponics for mj.

please don't misunderstand my responses im not looking to argue as I know your not either but I am interested in good conversation and im open

I respect that your environmentally aware and appreciate it

I just want you to consider

the nutes your adding to your med and your body are made by companies with a long and repeated history of adding toxic chemicals to the products and not telling the consumer or the fda that theyre in fact breaking the law

for example everyone knows bushmaster and gravity was removed from the market because it was the same poison they use to spray on golf course turf to make it grow in height more slowly to save on maintenance
costs

now take a look at the kool bloom powder you've told me you use;

don't you find is suspect
anyone who uses it will tell you "it made my buds harder"
its directed to be used at the same time of growth as gravity was
its nutrient make up is not much different than the liquid kool bloom.. so why not just use the liquid... why change to some other ingredient?

sounds suspect to me

with my mono potassium phosphate im not putting poison in my body and in the environment

100% organic is the only real answer to that dilemma

 

[bagabones]

is the Lucas formula profile similar to the Hoaland formula ?

its been a while since I read that material thus my earlier confusion

I would have to reference it

 

[bagabones]

I mix a 2 part concentrate for my veg res

its not dtw...

since i feed the same ratio in veg from start to finish i mix it to add equal portions of each part until i achieve the desired EC

 

[bagabones]

Ive grown in Coco and used much the same watering frequency as I do with rockwool and grew, predominately, organically, veg and marijuana, for over 15yrs before switching to hydroponics for mj.

then id say you know what your talking about....

i have personally never grown in coco, but i have read that depending on how you mix it you can to some degree control the saturation and how much water it will hold

but since i have no first hand experience i really have no place to disagree other than to say ive read different

but i have also learned you cant always believe what you read

 

[bagabones]

while I'm currently happy to talk concepts just at the moment I'm far to busy to look into anything in too much detail.
Its 7:36am gmt right now, i was out of bed at 5:30 and will be shortly going to work and trimming my harvest for another 12hr shift.

well get some rest and when you wake
turn up the tunes.. it helps get thru the dullness

look at the bright side... your harvesting

 

[bagabones]

I'm going to work now, its 07:54hrs gmt

that sucks.. you sound tired and bummed out

hope youll come back to chat when you get caught up

after all it was you who inspired/requested me to start this thread

 

[bagabones]

so I run a 4x4 tray =16 sq ft with a 1000 watt light over 9 plants

EC max at 1.1

it has a 100 gln res dtw and it use about 10 glns a day so I get 10 days from 100 gln



my veg tray is a 2x4 =8 sq ft with a 30 gln res and it recirculates
over it I have a 400 watt t5
I change the res 1 x per 7 days and often top off 1x in the week with 5 gallons +/-

EC max at 1.5


I really don't feel like my dtw uses much more than the recirculating veg area

the only other consideration is

the veg water more times in 18 hours of light than the flower tray at 12

and then I run 200 watt t5 over the mom or donor

 

[bagabones]

site 1:

8x4 tent 1800w
18 6ltr pots
200ltr rez

I may change the rez over twice in 10wks, max
Otherwise I generally top off by adding my nutrients and topping off with h2o till my desired ec is reached.
On average, I'd estimate that I've dumped 200ltrs nutes over a 10wks = 20ltr a week waste nutes, some of which is used to water my house plants.

average 1.2gpw

Veg:

4x2
8 bulb T5
90ltr rez

site 2:

8x4
1800w
4 plant scrog, each plant having a 90ltr rez


veg:

600w metal halide
90ltr rez

only 5 gallons of waste water

wow your really on a mission to conserve

that's admirable

 

[mrnice]

Hi bagabones, Good thread but would you know what the 'reverse lucas formula' works out as?
Mrnice

 

[bagabones]

Hi bagabones, Good thread but would you know what the 'reverse lucas formula' works out as?
Mrnice

im sorry but I don't know what that is?

if you give me the nute % and dosage I will figure it out for ya

 

[bagabones]

I tried googling reverse lucas and got very little

except at rollit up forum had someone talking about it briefly

I think if memory serves

lucas is 1:1:2 npk ratio

so reverse?? 2:1:1 ??

not for me! I wouldn't run that!


that would be something like

N140
P70
K70

to much N for me and not enough K

personally I wouldn't even run that in veg

sometimes I wonder if some folks don't tell other folks to do weird **** just so they can watch the disaster and then later gloat

I cant speak for soil... maybe for soil it might be ok idk I don't do soil but certainly not in hydro