The Female Growers Group

[tcbud]

WOW I just stumbled upon an old post from 2008 that seems to be the original discussion about starting a FGG. OH MY. I had no idea how dramatic your history was.... you woulda though we were asking for the right to vote all over again.

Hello OHC

It was quite a ruckus yes......ah well.....

Sorry to hear bout the fly situation, I hear you bout chasing them down....I hate the dang things.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

I've got a buncha pesky flies in my house. I guess it was all the in and out open doors this past weekend - and then the weather changed yesterday so they were looking for a warm spot. Been killing the nasty things all morning. I've got two smart stealth ones taunting me but I'm on a mission from God. Just a matter of time.... I keep catching it nibbling on one of my seedling WWs. Everything is showing signs of suffering.... I was off schedule and watered a day late, the flo above the older WW slipped and scorched some top branches, the one sapling with the obsessed fly has weird puckered leaves now..... my clones look miffed. I've got stretching going on......All hell has broke loose here.

:ciao: welcome to the Wonderful World of Growing


:48: Dont let it ge ya down Girl...your are learning..we have all been here...and it gets easyier and better..chin High..Like me..hehe..:bong:

 

[OldHippieChick]

:48: now that's the ticket..... thanks 4u2 .
Good thing we females excel at "multitasking" blah blah blah....

 

[painterdude]

I hate Horse Flies......with a passion.....but I really hate Dump Flies.....they get inside the truck while you are recycling your bottles, and bottles, and more bottles.....and some tin......and some cardboard boxes.....and then you remember where the flies came from, the big, huge, mammoth pile of garbage waiting to be burned in the County's only Refuse Incinerator....diapers could be in there......jesus.....save us from the Dump Fly

 

[mojavemama]

Fa$t--I assure you it was but a mere coincidence that I bumped this thread and SM came back. Wish I could take credit for it!

4U, thanks for the pep talk! I don't know if the math dude and I can do it or not. But I have the light here, so we'll try. And, as long as Don is willing to answer posts about it with questions, I'm not going to give up!

I still want my switchable electronic MH/HID lights--but for now, this may help a BIG DEAL to get me through until I have saved up enough for them. I can only put aside about $10-20 a month, so it's not going to happen overnight. <G>

I'm two thumbs up on DJ's post becoming a sticky!

Beautiful outside today, about 68 degrees with no clouds and sunny. Just not enough hours of sun. Not sure 5 hours is doing much for the plants, but better than nothing. They do not seem to be stretching a lot, though the are under the fluoros and CFL's most of the time. Just the two big monster Frostings that eat up 1/3 of all the plant shelf space!

OHC, Oh Dear! And how about those flies? We have 'em too. No mosquitoes, no fleas, but oh, boy, we DO have flies. You'll catch 'em all! Get that flyswatter flapping, gal!

And don't worry about your WW getting a bad perm from the lights: it will recover. I have burned several of mine and they came back without a problem.

Just remember, soon you'll have your tent up and running, and then it will be smooooooth sailing!

P'Dude, I love ya, man, but you're giving me the creepy-crawlies with all the fly talk!

 

[mojavemama]

Oh, Jeebus!

I'm reading over Don's posts, having printed them out and about to see if I can disassemble this old light. And I suddenly had the funniest thought. You know, I've cheated death a good many times, and now live with a terminal vascular disease.

So I'm thinking about how the headline might read when I accidentally goof---"Old Lady in a Wheelchair Electrocuted to Death While Trying to Assemble a Ghetto light for her Marijuana Grow Room"

ROFL! Now what a way to go, huh? And on my gravestone they can write, "She was one HOT lady at the end..."

 

[FA$TCA$H]

i'm sure you can do it yourself....just have hubby plug it in lol

 

[4u2sm0ke]

So I'm thinking about how the headline might read when I accidentally goof---"Old Lady in a Wheelchair Electrocuted to Death While Trying to Assemble a Ghetto light for her Marijuana Grow Room"

:rofl:

 

[mojavemama]

ROFLMAO, Fa$t!!!!!!!!!!! Now THAT was funny.....!

 

[mojavemama]

Okay, Don!

I must admit I'm having a total blast doing this. Your instructions are beyond simple--if I can do this, I promise ANYONE can do this.

1. Confirming actual wattage of 400w.
2. Only 3 wires coming out of tube--black one, white one, green one.
3. Tube removed, cover box removed. Wires left:
--skinny white wires blanked off: 208, 240,120.
--Green wire: loose, not connected to anything
--black wire hooked with cap to white 277V wire
--thick white wire hooked with cap to skinny white wire with COM written on it.


I believe I did it correctly, and hope you can now tell me if it needs rewiring or just a cord attached.

Pictures below

 

[DonJones]

I don't remember if I gave a required tool list with the DIY post [the one in my signature about converting HID light to remote ballasts] or not so I'll run it down here;
1 pair GOOD diagonal wire cutters -- at least 8" to 10"

1 pair of wire strippers -- these are a lot easier to use than a knife but you can get by with a good knife if you know how to use it

A couple of Phillips and blade screwdrivers --OR EVEN BETTER ONE OR TWO OF THE 4-WAY TYPE SCREWDRIVERS

If you will be using crimp connectors, which I strongly recommend, a good pair of crimping pliers

A good razor/utility knife with pointed blades -- I prefer the retractable pocket knife type

These can all be bought at Home Depot, Lowes or harbor Freight -- don't worry about getting the best, but don't get the cheapest because to a certain extent you get what you pay for. If you need me to, I can get a suggested middle priced list with parts numbers for each source, but it will take a while.

Okay, the next step is to obtain a wire extension cord of at least 14 gauge and one of the 400 watt bulbs. Forget about the grow shops or garden centers. Instead of paying way over $50/bulb (and I have been hearing that a lot of shops want close to $100 or more depending upon which high dollar grow brand you buy) search the yellow pages in the telephone book for "electrical supplies, wholesale" or similar listings. Start calling them until you find one who will sell to individuals, or even better if you know any contractors or electricians have them buy a simple 400 watt MH bulb -- if you have a choice of brands at close to the same price, Phillips has an excellent reputation along with Sylvania. I pay $24 and change plus tax for Sylvania and I think $26 and change for the Phillips brand from a different wholesaler locally. DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME ON BUYING USED BULBS BECAUSE YOU HAVE NO IDEA WHAT THE EXPECTED LIFE OF IT HAS BEEN USED UP. Also the output decreases over time and the older the bulb, the faster it decrease. Some of the newer ones have been made to where they stay pretty consistent until right at the end and then fail very quickly.

Then get a 14 gauge 3 wire extension cord long enough to make both your power cord and your ballast to light cord out of it. You don't need the "contractor grade" and since it will be used indoors out of the weather it can be almost the cheapest one you find. Just be sure that it is 3 wire and at least 14 gauge wire -- 12 works well too but the larger wire makes it slightly harder to work with and needlessly more expensive, unless you already have it. If you are trying to use used cords, make sure that the insulation is good full length and if the ends are damaged, then replace them like my DIY thread suggests. If I was buying cords, I would probably buy them at Harbor Freight or Lowes/Home Depot when I bought my ends. Incidentally Lowes has some very inexpensive cord ends that would probably be just fine IF you always unplug the power cord before messing with the ballast or light cord. I usually use between 10' and 15' for the power cord, although 6' is probably about the standard length with the factory ballasts. Then I use between 15' and 20' for the ballast to light cord. Figure out how big your area is and give your self at least 6' more than the longest distance from the plugins for your ballast to light cord. For instance my room is approximately 15' diagonally so I use 20' to 25' -- the diagonal length plus 6' for height adjustment and a full 8' to maybe even 10' for height adjustment so if you want to you can put the ballast near the floor, run up to the ceiling, across the room, and back to near the floor. For my 12' x 6' x 7'8" high room, most of mine have 35' of cord for each light, 10' for power cord and 25' for light cord. I just kind of hang the cord between the J hook screws that I use to hang the light on one end over to the other hook where I hang the ballast and go from there. A couple of mine are couple of feet shorter than that if the piece I was using wasn't quite long enough and if it was a little longer I just left them alone. Of course I made mine out of old extension cords I had acquired over the years. I probably had 500' of cord around here from projects over the years that had bad ends on them (if you buy the same quality ready made cords are cheaper than 2 ends and the same amount of extension cord 3 wire cable and you don't have to put them together) so when the ends get screwed up I just pack the cord away and go get a new one. Fortunately my being a pack rat pays off sometimes, although my other half gets frustrated with it.

Once you have both the bulb and the extension cord, cut the male end with the prongs -- (I'm just trying to be clear, NOT imply that people, especially women, know nothing because I know better but it is easier to clarify now than after a mistake has been made) to the length that you want your power cord to be.

Carefully remove the wire nut from the black/277v connection and note how far the insulation has been stripped back.

Then trim the outer insulation jacket back about 1" to 1.5" being VERY careful not to cut the insulation on the inner three wires or even worse yourself or assistant if you have one. Somethe steps are a littl easier to do with a spare hand or two. Then strip the individual wires the same distance as the wires currently connected with wire nuts are stripped.

Expose the end of the 120v wire by cutting very short pieces of the cap off until you can pull the insulation off. A better picture of the capped off wire would be helpful here in trying to help you determine where to cut it. If possible put something like a dime in the picture for a frame of reference to help me judge the size of the cap, or just measure the length of the cap.

Then expose the wire for the same length as the 277v one that you disconnect was exposed.

Now cut the exposed part of the 277v wire off flush with the insulation and seal it. For sealing the end of the wire I suggest making a very tight U shaped bend in the wire so the end of it is now lying along the side of the wire. A lap of about 1/4" to 1/2" is fine. Then you can wrap the folded over portion with 2 or 3 layers, or as many more as you feel to be needed, of good electricians tape to prevent the end of the wire from shorting to anything.

Finally connect the stripped 120v white wire from the ballast to the stripped black wire in the power cord using the wire nuts that are already on the ballast, followed by connecting the White COM wire from the ballast to the white wire of the power cord. For now ignore the green wire, it will be sued later to ground the cases of the ballast and reflector/hood directly to ground in case there is a short that electrifies things that aren't supposed to be electrified.

Lay the ballast on its side, screw the bulb into the socket securely but don't over tighten it because you will need to remove later. Now without disturbing the ballast or the bulb, carefully plug the cord into a plugin. At this point it is a good idea to not be touching the ballast or socket assembly when the cord is plugged in.

Watch to see if the light burns. It should only take less that a minute to be nearly steadily bright. Please do NOT look directly at the light because it will at least temporarily blind you when you look away. You will be able to tell if the ballast and socket are working without looking directly at the bulb.

If the light isn't burning steadily within 2 minutes, there is a good chance that it never will, but it will consistently get brighter for the first few minutes.

It should NOT ever take over 5 minutes to settle down to a smooth increase in brightness. Otherwise either the ballast or the socket is probably bad.

After you determine if it works or not, unplug the cord and let the bulb cool down before going any farther. If possible always handle the bulb when cool and with clean hands and a clean cloth or gloves to avoid getting spots or finger prints on the outer shell than can cause hot spots and failure of the bulb.

You might want to take picture of each step like you did earlier so you will have record of how and what you did. I am proud of you and you should be proud too. Most people, regardless of their sex would not be as willing to try some thing like this, especially involving electricity, or do it as well as you are doing without some background.

If the light works, then I need you to get me some close up pictures of the socket end so I can try to walk you through converting the socket to a remote ballasted setup.

TO BE CONTINUED

 

[DonJones]

CONTINUATION

At this point, you also need to start figuring out what you are going to use for your reflector/hood. Do you have any pieces of reflector that hook into those slots around your socket. If so, they maybe a very good reflector to use until you can see if you need an air cooled hood. That circular slotted piece looks similar to my son's parabolic reflector, which results in all of the light rays leaving the light in nearly parallel lines so that the light is shooting straight down and will give you better penetration through the foliage than most reflectors and hoods. The other advantage is the entire beam is nearly uniform in intensity instead of having bright and dimmer spots. The trade off with a parabolic reflector is they slightly decrease the are of the light beam which will also be roughly circular rather than rectangular like a rectangular reflector or hood. There are a couple of different Do It Yourself hoods in the DIY section.

I'll be giving some thought to how you could easiest hang the ballast which will let it disperse the heat better than laying down.

Incidentally, yours is what is called a magnetic ballast which means it will run hotter, less efficiently, and possibly noisier (most of mine are fairly quiet but one of them is a noisy sucker but the other same model is quiet so I don't know what it means -- it has been running for over 4 months so I guess it is just noisy) than the new digital or electronic ballasts but will have cost you way under 1/2 as much money.

We will deal with isolating the noise from the rest of the house later.


You are doing good. I'm proud of you and while your PM was amusing, I was chuckling WITH you not at you.

Good smoking.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

Thanks Don...:48:

i seen some of these on Craigslist for 15 dollars each..but look like they take up a lot of room...

mojave...your doing great:yay:

 

[mojavemama]

WOW, thank you, Don!!!!!!!

I'm printing out your post, and will wheel down to Home Depot today and pick up what I need. Only uncertainty is what type of 400w MH Bulb base to get--E39 Mogul socket? Regular clear or coated? What K for vegging, same as with Fluoros, 6500K??

4U, I need something NOW for the garage if I'm going to be able to start my auto seeds, so I can use my little grow room for flowering. While this may be noisy, run hot, be bulky, big and cost more to run, it's not a 'forever' solution. It's a workable solution that will tide me over. Thanks for your support and cheering me on!

Don, your instructions are beyond fabulous. And please, all the details are MOST appreciated. I'm glad you assume nothing, and realize i was being honest when I said I know absolutely NOTHING about electrical stuff. Your clear instructions are an absolute godsend to me, and setting me up for success instead of failure.

THANK YOU!!!!!

 

[OldHippieChick]

Mojavemama so does this mean you're gona do your autos for seed grow this winter instead of in the spring or was this some fem seeds you already have? You know how I'm itching to learn to breed for auto seeds!

 

[mojavemama]

OHC, Howdy, gal!!!

No, i don't think I'll start the autos until January. I still need some good outside sun for flowering. But...I need to put the ones now crying to go into flowering, throwing pistils all over the place--into flowering, and I still have some plants not nearly ready, plus I really, really, REALLY want to germ and grow the Aurora Indica seeds I recently got from Nirvana.

I will have to develop some PATIENCE here and know good things come to those who wait!

And besides, I really need to do this MH light thing to start learning more about this stuff---it's very good for me to learn this in a hands-on fashion. And Don's instructions are so good a kindergartner could follow them!

So.....hang in there, and we will be doing our autos together this spring!

 

[DonJones]

mojavemama,

You need to be careful there girl. My hat size is already at least a full size larger than anyone else in the family, including my departed Dad, my brothers and departed Father-in-law. You're going to give a swelled head until I won't be able to find a hat or cap that will fit.

While I don't know your plans about breeding auto seeds, you can run auto plants right along the vegging regulars, from what I hear. In fact in one of the growing guides I read on one of the seed banks, autos will actually produce better on a 16/8 or at most 18/6 cycle for their entire life than if you put them on a 12/12.

I'll be back to talk about the bulb selection in more detail after I run my adopted granddaughter to school. It is hard to get used to having a daughter-in-law who is younger than her step daughter and then have here sister being one of the grandkids. Thank my oldest son for that 37 year old groom and 20 year old bride. He used to neck with his mother-in-law when she was pregnant with his wife.

Good smoking.

 

[DonJones]

I'm back.

As far as I'm aware, once you get to 400 watt all of the HID lights,and it seems like the incandescents and Mercury Vapors too, use the same mogul base. I'm not sure what the number is. I know that if you look at your socket and/or measure the diameter it will become obvious when you look at the bulb whether or not it is the right base.

Clear or coated envelope -- always clear, UNLESS the coating is to filter certain spectrum(s) of the light out and thereby change the color temperature. Every coating that I know of will cut down on the intensity of the light leaving the bulb and in our application we want all of the intensity that we can get.

What color temperature to get -- don't worry about that until after you have it up and running. All of the commercial bulbs will be within a few hundred degrees of each other.

I doubt that you will find a 400 MH at Home Depot and I know none of the local Lowes have anything near that large. Well I was wrong. Home Depot said they have 400 watt MH bulbs for right at $29.00. I still will buy mine commercially because the supply houses are closer to home than HD and $3 to $4 cheaper depending on which brand I buy. At least with the older magnetic ballasts you must use the same wattage bulb as the ballast is designed for. I do NOT know why but that is what the various manufacturers of both bulbs and ballasts have told me.

I would check around for commercial sources of bulbs and check the brand and manufacturer's part numbers that they sell. Then go to the manufacturer's web site(s) and find their spec tables/charts and check the color temperature of each one of them. Then you can start choosing the brand and part number of the bulb(s) that you want to buy. I'm using Sylvania bulbs in all but one of my 400s and sue them for both vegging and flowering. The experienced local growers, especially the older ones, say that there is actually very little difference in the outcome of using MH all the way through versus switching to HPS for flowering.

My oldest son uses a mixture of MH and HPS to flower because he has only a couple of HPSs so he has to use some MH too to get the light saturation he needs for flowering in his room with the number of plants that he grows. He said, he can't tell the difference when he is growing full out under the combination and when he has a small enough crop to use only the HPSs. Now if this was on the "big boy forums", as you call them, that would probably start a long argument, but I'm only repeating what we have found and what I have been told. Also the old timers remind me that MH was all they had and the cutting edge for grow lights for along time.

Regarding the crimping and stripping pliers, unless you are going to be using them a lot the combination pliers are fine but look at them carefully. The real cheap light thin metal ones will cause you way more headache than they will save you in cost. Go with the mid priced ones.

Well that is about all I can do until you make sure the light is going to work.

Good smoking and keep on keeping on. You go girl!

 

[DonJones]

4u2sm0ke,

You are correct that they are big and bulky, especially height wise. There is a picture of the last one I have that hasn't been remote ballasted and it is nearly 29" tall and right next to it is the same light remote ballasted with the vertical rectangular commercial lighting reflect, also remote ballasted in the first post under my CONVERTING thread in my signature. It is the last picture on the first post. I tried to copy and past the image to here but it didn't work and I don't think I have it on my memory card or hard drive anymore, at least not where I can find it quickly.

But if you remote ballast it, that brings the height down to 12" to 13". Those are the same heights I have found throughout all of these commercial high bay lights, both M Hand HPS, that I've run across within an inch or so. I'm not sure what a low bay light even is because I haven't ever seen one.

For $15 to buy the light use don Craig's list, that usually has a working bulb with it, and maybe $15 and a few hours to convert it to remote ballast, I'll sure live with the bulk over spending a couple hundred dollars.

Thanks for the reminder. I need to start watching Craig's list for used HPS lights. What category do you see them under?

Good smoking.

 

[4u2sm0ke]

:ciao: Don Jones...:48:


Thanks for the reply...if ya wanna take a pic from another thread just right click the pick..save picture nd open in paint and put dop somewhere in pic the close..it asks if ya wanna save say yes...now you have changed the pic so can be added to another thread..do this as many times as ya like...I do it this way as I dont save on my computer..I put all my pics on here somewhere..hope tht helps...


wow...if ya can get them down that small..then yeah this will benafit a lot...I all ready spen Hundreds $$$:rofl:

I just runa search on Craigslist..."grow lights" I live in a MMJ state so grow lights are easy to come by..I purchased most of my lights from there..Thanks again for the great info...

take care and be safe:bolt::bong: