need some advice!!!

[fumanchu]

hi guys...i got this crop that started going bad on me over the(friday) weekend...the ph went too low...didnt checked it for like only 2 days and all of them starting wilting and drooping with brown and black stains on the fan leaves.. by now(monday) some of the fan leaves are drying and falling off..the question is: is it worth it trying to help surviving this crop??? or should i start again??? is like 40 sum plants...believe me guys i really regret not checking on that ph....just wanna give an idea of the system and by the way am a 1st time grower..ebb and flow system..res.30gal....water heater and pumps on reservoir to keep nutes moving around...400w mhalide wi cool reflector... i changed the water when i came home friday and adj. ph..now this is the thing.... the getting from bad to worst process stop, and the growing tips are coming out nice and healthy but they been in veg. stage for 5 weeks...u see want am trying to say??? am thinking it might take another 4 or 5 weeks on veg to get to flowering...anyhints and advice from all of you would be greatly appreciated.....thanks...

 

[moth]

check your resover,make sure the water heater isnt burning it,u totaly sure its your ph,marijuna is always worth saving,even though your plants in bad condition,you can still yeild a great crop.those leaves are going to die in flowering.have you treid pruning your plants ,they may be growing a desease ,that spreads kiling the leaves slowly.they dont look tht bad for a first grow.ive seen 10 times worst,and still yeilded a crop worth smoking.i also suggest you get some super thrive and some water treatment

 

[Stoney Bud]

hi guys...i got this crop that started going bad on me over the(friday) weekend...the ph went too low...didnt checked it for like only 2 days and all of them starting wilting and drooping with brown and black stains on the fan leaves.. by now(monday) some of the fan leaves are drying and falling off..the question is: is it worth it trying to help surviving this crop??? or should i start again??? is like 40 sum plants...believe me guys i really regret not checking on that ph....just wanna give an idea of the system and by the way am a 1st time grower..ebb and flow system..res.30gal....water heater and pumps on reservoir to keep nutes moving around...400w mhalide wi cool reflector... i changed the water when i came home friday and adj. ph..now this is the thing.... the getting from bad to worst process stop, and the growing tips are coming out nice and healthy but they been in veg. stage for 5 weeks...u see want am trying to say??? am thinking it might take another 4 or 5 weeks on veg to get to flowering...anyhints and advice from all of you would be greatly appreciated.....thanks...

How often and how long are you running your pump to the plants? What type of nutrients are you using? I run my pump on a schedule of 1 hour on, two off. 24/7.

If you adjusted your pH on Friday, what was it after you adjusted it and what was it when you noticed the plants curling and losing color? You should be aiming at 6.5

 

[fumanchu]

well after i changed the water on friday, i could tell that they werent getting any worst than they were on friday..the growing tips that are just coming out they look nice and green without any spots or stains....the nutrients that i use is this 2 part formula call liquid earth nutrients systems by future garden....here is a link to it.plz let me know what u think about this nutrients...

http://www.futuregarden.com/nutrition/index.html

grow and vigor......it seeem it work pretty well for the first 5 weeks but then i didnt check the ph for 2 days and all hell broke looose....i always try to aim the ph between 5.5 to 6.5...the water heater is like the ones for aquariums and it keeps the water nice and warm...i live on a eastern state so still lil cold overhere...the pumps come on every 3 hours for like 2 hours every session...it seems they grow faster wi longer periods of watering instead of 6 or 7 times per day with 15 to 30 min. sessions..i experience this wi 3 plants i started on a ebb and flow system that it can hold for up to 8 plants...this is a lil bigger system....at nights i try not to water as much...anything that i left out let me know...and thanks for the advice guys...its well appreciated!!!!!

 

[fumanchu]

hi hopper..just to give an update on what i did..there were 2 or 3 plants that were dying so i took them out and i put it on another system and the 8 that were on that same system and pass them to the big tray were i have the rest...thas why some of them look bigger and healthier that the others...most of this plants were damaged by low ph....you can see on the stem of sum of them, they dont have any fan leaves, just the growing tip and everything below it is pretty much empty but the shoots are still coming out slowly...my nutes are very unstable, the ph changes every day at high rates... i can tell that the nutes work good because the plants were very bushy and tall for like 4 or 5 weeks...but the ph went too far down for a long period of time..let me know what u guys think...thanks..

 

[Biffdoggie]

Have you sprayed them with anything? Just trim all the stained/dead/dying stuff off and see if they'll catch up, they probably will, they're a good size. Maybe some clearex just to make sure it's not a wierd build-up or burn or something. Do you have a PPM meter? A lot of times the mix ratio on the bottle will be too high also.

 

[Biffdoggie]

Have you sprayed them with anything? Just trim all the stained/dead/dying stuff off and see if they'll catch up, they probably will, they're a good size. Maybe some clearex just to make sure it's not a wierd build-up or burn or something, maybe just some clear for a couple days. Do you have a PPM meter? A lot of times the mix ratio on the bottle will be too high also.

 

[fumanchu]

thanks for the advice biffdoggie...i did took some of the fan leaves out just because they were dying and drying, and i left some of them with the leaves because they do provide energy and the stems were very weak at some point..after a good weeek they all started to grow again..i think the whole issue with them was the ph was really low for like 2 days straight cuze after that nothing else happens...so they were pretty much on a survival mode....what i problably be doing next is to switch the light cycle to 12/12 so that they can start flowering..i got more pics so you can see them....let me know what u think...am open to any advice!!! also the tallest plants that i have on one corner is the only female i have..(well i just found another female today hahaha..its on the pics)the big female is like 3 feet tall and am cloning off of it but shes getting to tall...how can i keep it from getting that tall??? cuze shes taller than the others and i gotta keep the lights a lil higher just beacuse of her.....i heard about topping off but am not quite sure...any help?? and by the way is my first grow....thanks for the help guys!!!

 

[Stoney Bud]

The pH you should attempt to stabilize at is 6.5

You should never go outside 6.2 to 6.8

To do so, as you have surmised, causes each of the problems you've had.

Get that puppy up to 6.5 man.

Give em two weeks of that real steady and they'll perk back up and take off again.

Good luck man!! Good to meetcha.

Also, something has to be causing the pH fluctuation. It's not normal.

I use a 3 part mix of General Hydroponics "Flora" nutes in my ebb and flow. The stuff is damn good. I just completed an entire crop with it and never even checked the pH once. From previous crops, I've noted that using this stuff with fresh water, (no creek water), the pH stays constant as hell. I do have to use the Hard Water version of their "Micro" nute, but it stays right at 6.5 without doing squat to it.

You mentioned heating your reservoir water. How warm is that water? 75 degrees is a real good temp to set it for. No warmer. I don't use any heat. My reservoir is in the master bedroom of my house. It stays the same temp my feet do on the floor. I've never had a problem with it.

Good luck to you man.



EDIT: Yes, I stay in the guest room. Nothing is too good for my ladies!

 

[Biffdoggie]

I've been using the General Hydro "flora-nova" and kool bloom mix and it has been working great. Super concentrated though, the mix ratio on the bottle is off.

 

[fumanchu]

hey stoneybud.....for nutes am using this 2 part formula (grow and vigor) from this hydronics store close in the area and is actually their own line of products, and since i bought almost everything for my system from there i figured i should try them..not again....the ph is crazy....u brought a very good point about why is it so unstable...i dont know why...the only thing i thought about off is that the reservoir is plastic clear, but is right underneath the tray so it doesnt get any light..so far thats the only thing i can think off...am keeping the ph between 5.5 and 6.8.... am definetely gonna aim towards 6.5..the water heater keeps it between 70 and 75 degrees and i need it because it gets cold upthere...once the summer comes around i be taking it off...its still a lil too cold in the eastern coast...am changing nutes am going back to what i was using before, this ones are more stable than the other and its also a 2 part formula named "millenium super single grow"and a plant energy thas has "Tricarboxylic Acids", a lil expensive but it works very well for now.... you can check the nutes at this link http://www.hydroponicgarden.com/ , but i gotta look into that problem wi the ph too..anyway thanks for all the advice, i be posting pics with updates on how they doing, am really happy and relieve to know that i didnt have to start all over again man...thanks you guys!!!for real..

 

[fumanchu]

hey biffdoggie....a lot of people have told me and i have read stoies of growers that have used general hydro nutes and it when prety well...but i havnt try them yet...for my next crop am definetely looking for that....i keep u posted!!2 females baby!!! lol...

 

[Stoney Bud]

the only thing i thought about off is that the reservoir is plastic clear, but is right underneath the tray so it doesnt get any light..so far thats the only thing i can think off...am keeping the ph between 5.5 and 6.8

I think you may have found the problem. The clear container will grow microscopic algea if ANY light is contacting the reservoir. Cover that puppy with a blanket, some foil, paint, or cotton. It doesn't matter what you cover it with, cover it. NO CLEAR CONTAINERS WITH HYDROPONICS. EVER.

I have no doubt that it's the cause of you pH fluctuations.

Aso, the pH is 6.2 to 6.8

NOT 5.5 TO 6.8. IF YOU DROP BELOW 6.2 YOU ARE HARMING YOUR PLANTS.

Stop thinking about 5.5. Whoever told you that is wrong. Wherever you read it, it's wrong. 6.2 to 6.8, watch my lips..... 6.2 to 6.8

 

[massproducer]

hey stoney, why are you using such high PH's. I would never go higher then 6.5 in any hydroponic or soiless mixture. I have never heard of people using a ph of 6.8 for hydroponic growing, that is what is best used for soil, but soil and hydro have different ph requirements.

I use a ph of about 5.5-5.8, This is what is recommended for hydro and soiless. At above 6.5, you can have problems with Phoshphorus, boron and manganese

Here are 2 seperate nute charts to show this.

 

[Stoney Bud]

hey stoney, why are you using such high PH's. I would never go higher then 6.5 in any hydroponic or soiless mixture. I have never heard of people using a ph of 6.8 for hydroponic growing, that is what is best used for soil, but soil and hydro have different ph requirements.

I use a ph of about 5.5-5.8, This is what is recommended for hydro and soiless. At above 6.5, you can have problems with Phoshphorus, boron and manganese

Here are 2 seperate nute charts to show this.

You bring an interesting point to the discussion. I've been to a couple of botanist conventions that the subject almost came to blows between various opinions and results of lab rats, (techies in botany).

The truth of the matter belongs in defining the exact stage of growth, light, types of nutrients and even barometric pressure and pests.

Once each of the variables involved were defined to an absolute, each and every botanist will tell you an average of 6.5 Potential Hydrogen, (pH), is the most likely to sustain plants in all conditions.

If you want to minimize node spacing and maximize vegetative growth, or minimize vegetative growth and maximize flowering, you can adjust the pH to adjust the plants uptake of nutrients to accomplish this.

The various types of nutrients also play an important factor in plant growth. Many nutes come in several different types of processing to arrive at the end product.

6.5 works best for me using the nutes that I use and the water I use from my well.

Using distilled water and adjusting the pH to 5.5 each day may maximise the overall plant growth, but stretching in vegetative growth will be likely and poorer flower count will also be a problem. Increasing the pH to 6.5 will resolve both of these issues.

Edit: Also, the "tables" available are many, and many of those tables tell different tales. There are at least three major plant hydroponic nutrient tables that are each widly used that disagree wildly in some areas. If you find a group of plant people who agree on a set nutrient table and pH, please let me know who these nice people are. I sure haven't found them.

I'm stating only what has worked best for me over the years. I'm not challenging your knowledge. God knows at least half the people in the plant world would agree with each of us.

 

[Weeddog]

Thanks Stoney, now I'm really confused.

 

[massproducer]

I understand totally, and totally agree with you stoney, and obviously you are growing some nice buds, based on your pics

No arguements here , I just wanted to let everyone know what worked best for me, but I do use a different nute brand then stoney, as I use advanced Nutrients- 2 part sensi grow a+b and sensi bloom a+b, plus some other additives from the advanced nutes line.

Good stuff, check it out.

http://www.advancednutrients.com/an_canada/index.html

 

[Mutt]

Ok all three of you got rep for this one. I'm with weedog. I'm confused. hahahaha.

Man stoney is tryin to get me to go hydro. Now you all got me .
but oh well learn something new everyday. by the time that PH chart thread is done its gonna have 50 charts. one for each kind of nute/temp/the way your holding your toungue . hahahahaha.
So let me get this right. PH will vary due to nuts, temp, strain, and other variables pretty much gotta make it work for the method. Am I close?

So would PPM and EC the only way to truly keep it accurate?

 

[Stoney Bud]

Ok, everyone has to realize that being a botanist isn't easy. It's one of the professions where only a few gain international recognition as such.

If understanding the complexities of plant action and re-action in regards to potential hydrogen, were easily understood, hell, we'd all be botanists.

I've had the pleasure to meet quite a few of them, and I must tell you, they are truly fascinating to listen to when they realize that their audience is a sincere pupil.

The variables that can be modified in MJ's specific example are in the thousands. Combinations of events altered systematically to evolve with the plants true condition at any given moment.

Check lists by the hundreds are used in experimentation with plants. It's truly fascinating to see the methods used and the records kept.

In regards to MJ, the simplest method of finding a "good medium" in growing a particular strain to specific conditions is to just do it. Start with the median data and work outwards from there.

Your conditions, your water, your variables. Test and re-test until you know you've found the conditions that are most favorable for your conditions.

Common sense. A large measure. If the plant looks really healthy, it probably is. If it looks like it's on death's door-step, then it probably is.

It's the in-between that causes all the mystery.

My best advice?

Learn to clone very well. Then, use hell out of that knowledge to try a hundred variations of your own. That's the fun part. If some die, others won't. Some will seriously take off like bandits and you'll have it written down as to what you did to make that happen.

Then, do what all good scientists do. What they must do.

Prove it over and over.....

With MJ, that's the payoff !!!!!

 

[Weeddog]

Well, I gonna creep my pH up a notch and see what happens. I respect info from an experienced grower such as Stoney... even a ph of 6.8 is still slightly acidic.