Feminized Seeds: Kill or share the buzz

[OGKushman]

just ordered 10 fems...og....hindu


let u know soon

 

[420grower]

well that sure started some comments,I have a phd in biology,I have been breeding this plant since the mid 70",back when most of you weren't thought off,haha,I know for a fact that the northern lights variety began in a science lab at Ohio U,of course someone in cali seems to have taken all the credit,the term banana came about because this odd item looks like a small banana,I have studied this strange item for a few years now,even under the microscope it is tough to determine exactly what there are,no pollen is found,but know pistil forms in them either,so even with an advanced degree and years of growing most if not all growers have no answer for what they are and why they are formed,this is an annual plant that us growers have tried to and do keep them like a house plant,cloning this same over and over again,science still does not know why this plant can evolve so quickly,I know this still doesn't answer the question but thats all I got,haha,as for you Hick,I have killed more girls in my time then you will grow in a lifetime,I am on 5 medical boards and know most of the best medical growers out there,I am the veterans advocate for medical mj at a federal level,I could go on,but anyone calling themselves a hick already tells me much about you,I came on this site as a request from a good friend who like me is a top breeder in his country,so I guess the Doc is no longer needed,hell you all got Hick,he seems to know it all,later all

 

[Hick]

I asked for creditials.. I guess I got 'em ehh?... "if" it's all true and I really have no reason to believe it's not. But that's the nice thing about this medium, any one can pretend to be anything, I pretend to be a hick..
BUT... if you're telling me, that nanners are'nt staminate flowers?.. and that they can't pollinate your fems?.. I do beg to differ. I've experienced it, seen it with my own eyes. And I'm pretty sure that there are others on here that have had their crop ruined by them.
I've no phd, but I have been growing and pllaying w/ the plant for over 25 years.

 

[NorCalHal]

,I have been breeding this plant since the mid 70",back when most of you weren't thought off,haha,

Dude. getting a little crazy.

and know most of the best medical growers out there

What an arrogant, untrue statement. You know nothing of what you speak dude. And the statement that u killed more girls then he grew just shows you are truly clueless. you know nothing of anyone on this board bro. Nothing.
I've probably grown more herb this year then u have ever.

See, don't that make me look like a butthead?

If you ware a real Dr. of Biology, then speak like one, not a pissed off kid who grew weed in the basement and made a few seeds bro. Convince us.

 

[NorCalHal]

Oh ya, what strains have you been responsible for? You did state that you are a TOP breeder.
Don't give me the "G-13" crap either.

 

[OGKushman]

well that sure started some comments,I have a phd in biology,I have been breeding this plant since the mid 70",back when most of you weren't thought off,haha,I know for a fact that the northern lights variety began in a science lab at Ohio U,of course someone in cali seems to have taken all the credit,the term banana came about because this odd item looks like a small banana,I have studied this strange item for a few years now,even under the microscope it is tough to determine exactly what there are,no pollen is found,but know pistil forms in them either,so even with an advanced degree and years of growing most if not all growers have no answer for what they are and why they are formed,this is an annual plant that us growers have tried to and do keep them like a house plant,cloning this same over and over again,science still does not know why this plant can evolve so quickly,I know this still doesn't answer the question but thats all I got,haha,as for you Hick,I have killed more girls in my time then you will grow in a lifetime,I am on 5 medical boards and know most of the best medical growers out there,I am the veterans advocate for medical mj at a federal level,I could go on,but anyone calling themselves a hick already tells me much about you,I came on this site as a request from a good friend who like me is a top breeder in his country,so I guess the Doc is no longer needed,hell you all got Hick,he seems to know it all,later all

I am currently in my senior year at Cal State for my B.S. in Geology with emphasis on groundwater flow.

I found over 54 mistakes in what you just typed. You do know there is a space bar and a period on your keyboard?
I am no where near a PhD when it comes education and credentials. I seem to disbelieve you based solely on your grammar, punctuation, and lack of conviction in your writing. This is enough for an educated person to dismiss any validity in this above post. Certainly a person with a doctorate earned from an accredited school has had to pass numerous American English courses before graduation. So, either your B-S'n us or you have been studying something other then Cannabis at OSU. :aok: I seem to have seen the same experiences as hick stated.

 

[NorCalHal]

You convinced me OG, he is full of it.

 

[NorCalHal]

I grow almost (99%) exclusive from clone stock. Mostly from my own mothers. Sometimes, I do buy from the dispensaries, only to make a mother myself if I like it.
With that said, I have been doing this ,from clone, alomost 12 years str8. Before it was from seed.

Aside from the experience with FLO feminised beans from DP, I have never has a 'morph. Both from Indica and Sativa's and mixes.
A few strains I can name for you, but I don't really know the makeup, as I am a spoiled bastid and get lucky with bomb cuts.
Trainwreck (Sativa 4sure)
NYCD(Sativa from hell 4sure)
Jack Herer, aka J1 (Sativa dominant)
SpiceyJack (J1 x Shinta spice)
Special K (Old skool BOMB herb)
White Widow (Indi)
Purple Erkle (Indi)
GDP (Indi)
NL5xHaze (?)
BubbaKush(indy)

A ton of others, but those I can remember running each for at least a year or more. No issues with 'morphs.


The only time, like I said, was with the damn Fem beans from DP. Bad luck maybe, but it sure scared me away from fem beans.

So, hopefully this can be of help to the folks that understand it more then I, and this is just my personal experience. I know quite a few other growers, and I have not heard them complain about 'morphs since I poisened them all with the Flo back i nthe day, lol.

So, from where I sit, if I was to do a single grow, I would not trip and order Fem beans. But, if I wanted to make a Mother plant and rock and roll, I would NOT use a Fem bean.

But I read what Growdude said, and I trust his experience, and he has had no issues. But WW is a more stable and long running strain.

Depending on your situation is what will determine your need for Fem beans, imo. You want to shoot the dice once, you'll be all good, but if you want to play craps all night, chances are, you will crap out.

 

[greenfriend]

ive never grown fem seeds, and i probably never will. a 5 pack of fem seeds costs the same as a 10 pack of regular seeds. if you get 5 females from the regular seeds, then your're simply paying twice as much for the same thing if you buy fem'd seeds.

much easier to go through a bunch of regular seeds, find a bomb pheno to be the mom and clone it for a couple years as Hal has done. and hal, if you ever come across that spicy jack again lemme know, i bought a sack from Blue Sky a couple days ago, and it was flavorlicious - a nice departure from all these fruity indicas

 

[SkunkPatronus]

Most people know the pros and cons of the monitary outlay and hermie trait issues, my deal with only female seeds is that if males aren't sold anymore, they will have our balls in a vise.

If i can't find male seeds, i.e. regular seeds that produce good looking male plants, i will be utterly dependant on the breeders/sellers of seeds for all of my seeds. Forever.

In America it is illegal to courner the market on purchases, it's called a monopoly. If you reduce the market to only females, which is their goal, they will be the only people you can get seeds from... not good.

If you want for the limited number of company's out there to be the ONLY way you can grow your pot, buy the female seeds, if not, buy the regular ones.

 

[greenfriend]

If i can't find male seeds, i.e. regular seeds that produce good looking male plants, i will be utterly dependant on the breeders/sellers of seeds for all of my seeds. Forever.

If you want for the limited number of company's out there to be the ONLY way you can grow your pot, buy the female seeds, if not, buy the regular ones.

first off, while its nice to make your own hybrid, imo stabilizing and backcrossing it to make it a good clone only strain is waaaay too much trouble for most people, except for good breeders who do it for a living. for my purposes, male seeds are useless

and second, there are more really quality strains available from online seed vendors than i could grow in my lifetime. why would you not want to buy seeds from breeders, they spend every single day making a huge selection of bomb strains for you to grow


and btw, the definition of a "monopoly":

1) the market condition that exists when there is only one seller
2)exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

there are many seed vendors, and wide variation of price - no monopoly

 

[Hick]

I'm with skunk on this. It is also believed by some breeders, that the recessive qualities in male plants, are connected with potency and quality in creating drug quality strains.

For "decades" (if not centuries) the well informed, "good", conscientious "breeders" that have produced the ultra potent strains that we are priviledged to be growing and smoking today, worked diligently to breed the hermaphrodite tendency out of the gene pool.
Why?... because they knew that it was detrimental to the quality of the final product.

first off, while its nice to make your own hybrid, imo stabilizing and backcrossing it to make it a good clone only strain is waaaay too much trouble for most people, except for good breeders who do it for a living. for my purposes, male seeds are useless

question GF?... Do you suppose 'any' of the clone only strains are a stable ?? I have always been under the impression, that 'clone only' was "not" stable, thus available only from a specific 'Donor/mother' phenotype. Possibly even an F1 hybrid of exceptional quality.

 

[Hick]

but on a side note...just becuase they say they are a breeder and have a shop doesn't mean they are (after seeing a shop try to pass off herm genes as self perpetuating OD grow i had enough) I have grown backyard breeds (by people that care and not after the dollar) that out performed and held more stable then some store bought seeds. credibility in the seedbank biz is at the very least a crap shoot. Don't get me going on the femd thing seeing major degen there in the genetic pool grrrr how many phenos lost.......forever...if selfing becomes the norm then what...just a bunch of clone only strains with no variation in an abyss of females....its not what peeps think they are...disappearing of possible great phenos...just my two cents.

:aok:

 

[Mutt]

Do you suppose 'any' of the clone only strains are a stable ?? I have always been under the impression, that 'clone only' was "not" stable, thus available only from a specific 'Donor/mother' phenotype. Possibly even an F1 hybrid of exceptional quality.

I thought clone only meant that even the F1 hybrid didn't hold the trait...thus why stuck clone only.

Which brings another question..how come clone only cannot be selfed and have at least femd seeds...unless even the S1's won't even hold the trait.

I love a good male seed here. broaden that gene pool.

 

[NorCalHal]

You boys have alot better understanding of breeding then I, but I can give my 2cents on the "Clone-Only" strains.

Hick, I have worked with quite a few "clone-only" strains and have not ran into any type of instability or 'morph trait at all. Maybe I am Lucky. The main clone only I work with is the Bubba Kush, and have been running her for a few years now, with no genetic issue at all, very consistent. I have ran Erkle,GDP,PK, OG,Chem, and no issues with any of them.

As I said, I really know nothing of breeding, but my impression and info gave to me was that the "Clone-Only" is simply just , as you said, a particular Pheno from a batch of seeds. That particular Pheno was saved and recloned and off it goes....

Living in Cali we have been fortunate in our laws, which in turn allows "breeding" folks a little more comfort in growing bigger gardens and having higher plant counts, which I believe is Required to sort thru seed stock and find "the one". The relaxed "scene" here makes it a little eaiser in peoples minds to keep bigger Veg Chambers and save the "best of the best".

All I know is my experience, and Fem beans 'morph, there is no way around it...sooner or later....

 

[TURKEYNECK]

I hadn't even considered Mutt's lost pheno theory... or alot of the other points made in this thread. I am now though My experience is limited and I suppose I've been lucky. it's definitely not that hard to pull a good pheno and keep a mother from standard seed.. more time consuming but I can see the worth in the big picture. If I'm honest, I guess my opinion has changed due to the fact that I found a 'retarded' seed (just one) in the Gigabud. If I intended to keep the strain around that ONE seed would be a BIG problem later on. Good thread guys.. I'm convinced.

 

[greenfriend]

Honestly I have no idea whether the "clone only" strains sold at bay area dispensaries are stable or not, but in my experience even with lots of stress and damage, they pull through and do fine.

I know breeders do breed quality males, such as Subcool's spacequeen male, which he crosses with almost all his strains.

Hick, im ignorant to the intricacies of breeding, maybe you can explain a couple things: if i were to start 10 regular seeds male and female of the same strain and i didnt remove the males, plants pollinated and seeded, would the seeds that I produced be of the same quality of the original seed pack? and would you get a wider range of phenos with the hundreds of seeds you made than with the 10 original seeds?

 

[SkunkPatronus]

first off, while its nice to make your own hybrid, imo stabilizing and backcrossing it to make it a good clone only strain is waaaay too much trouble for most people, except for good breeders who do it for a living. for my purposes, male seeds are useless

and second, there are more really quality strains available from online seed vendors than i could grow in my lifetime. why would you not want to buy seeds from breeders, they spend every single day making a huge selection of bomb strains for you to grow


and btw, the definition of a "monopoly":

1) the market condition that exists when there is only one seller
2)exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

there are many seed vendors, and wide variation of price - no monopoly

Right, When there is no more male seeds available for people like me to play with, and we can only buy female seeds from the existing sources, they will control the market... they will control the price and availability of *your* seeds, because there will be no one like me with the ability to alter the market share that they have reduced to just a limited number of people that can breed/hybridize/cross the plants. That is a monopoly. That is your 2) exclusive control of the commodity, change in availability which allows change of price. Increased price. They wil control all of the seeds. Think it thru.

Just because you don't play with the males isn't part of the issue, the issue is that the prices are still low because of all the people that do play with the males and that they are still part of our locally available gene pool. If you take out all of the males, we will only be able to buy any of our seeds from just those sources that still have them... and the prices will be driven up by demand and the supply will become limited over time.

 

[Mutt]

if i were to start 10 regular seeds male and female of the same strain and i didnt remove the males, plants pollinated and seeded, would the seeds that I produced be of the same quality of the original seed pack? and would you get a wider range of phenos with the hundreds of seeds you made than with the 10 original seeds?

depends on how true breeding it is. but in a nut shell without getting to far into it. Yes you would see more pheno variation in each subsequent cross. The number of possible phenos by the 3rd generation (F3) gets staggering. But it all depends how true breeding it is. Thats where stability becomes the issue. but always recommend to everyone to do a seed run every now and then...keep your selves in supply. F3's heck F4's ain't all that bad either Get some wild stuff popping out. Outcrossing is where it gets really fun.

By doing inbred crosses you'll tend to stay closer to the parents...male and female selection become important. If you outcross lets say a pack of afghani to AK47 your pheno variation becomes more and every generation after that gets even bigger unless running selective inbredding.

many theories on this stuff, and tactics, paths to choose from. but in the end still makin seeds LOL I don't want to complicate this thread...as it still bends my head on how many tactics are out there regarding breeding.

 

[Hick]

I thought clone only meant that even the F1 hybrid didn't hold the trait...thus why stuck clone only.

Which brings another question..how come clone only cannot be selfed and have at least femd seeds...unless even the S1's won't even hold the trait.

I love a good male seed here. broaden that gene pool.

I think/thought (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that S1's or at least 'selfed' seeds were what the clone only strain seeds we see in the forums, seed banks are/were. And I see a comsiderable amount of variation there.

Hick, I have worked with quite a few "clone-only" strains and have not ran into any type of instability or 'morph trait at all. Maybe I am Lucky. The main clone only I work with is the Bubba Kush, and have been running her for a few years now, with no genetic issue at all, very consistent. I have ran Erkle,GDP,PK, OG,Chem, and no issues with any of them.

As I said, I really know nothing of breeding, but my impression and info gave to me was that the "Clone-Only" is simply just , as you said, a particular Pheno from a batch of seeds. That particular Pheno was saved and recloned and off it goes....

I was meaning the seeds of the clone only strains nch. ..Or that is 'why' they are clone only, bacause 'that' pheno' is not readily reproduced.

aplasia... that went right over my head dude...:ignore: