Candles for CO2?

[bluealein56]

seriously??????

 

[Head_Down_Under]

Thankyou so much dirtyolsouth, you've provided just the kind of experience that I've been looking for. I've got time to go over all of the CO2 stuff again before veg grow begins, and I shall do it mindful of your comments

Also, HempGoddess yes I've read plenty of studies - mostly for commercial vegetable growing, making exciting claims about adding CO2 to the growhouse. Trouble is they are not specific for small-scale pot growing, this is why I value the comments of hemp growers who've already gone where I'm about to try

 

[leafminer]

These calculations should settle whether or not the amount of CO2 from a candle is useful for growing. It uses no more than high school chemistry and maths:


Cheers

GOOD CHEMISTRY!

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Also, HempGoddess yes I've read plenty of studies - mostly for commercial vegetable growing, making exciting claims about adding CO2 to the growhouse. Trouble is they are not specific for small-scale pot growing, this is why I value the comments of hemp growers who've already gone where I'm about to try

No, I am asking about a study on CO2 enhancement versus light enhancement and the time, energy, and money required to do both.

If you are a new grower, IMO, you are going to have your hands full just learning to grow. When you throw in CO2 enhancement and all the things that go with it, I think you are biting off more than you may want to chew. Setting up ventilation for a small closet is difficult at best...throwing in CO2 makes it that much tougher. Your room needs to be air tight. The CO2 ppms need to be regulated and controlled. You need to coordinate your exhaust with the release of your CO2. You need higher temps...

 

[NorCalHal]

This is a reponse I posted in another "CO2" thread a couple of days ago. I think it applies here.

Bottom line. If you go the "okie" way of supplying CO2 by ANY other means then a burner or a bottle, you are pissin' up a tree. And even with a burner/bottle, you better have your stuff together and really understand WHY CO2 works. If you have a understanding of what CO2 does in a garden envirionment, you will see that candles/mineral water and dry ice is a complete waste of time.

BTW, CO2 in the root zone is just plain wrong and is not beneficial at all.

The ole CO2 convo.

I have used CO2 very succesfully. No, it wasn't candles, aquafiz or dryice.

In the "outside" most CO2 levels are around 300-500 ppm. This is normal out side air. Obviously, this is more then efficiant for plants, as plants do great outside!

So, if you have a growroom, and exchange your air in your room properly, then the CO2 levels in your room should match the CO2 levels outside.
This is sufficiant to grow a healthy crop, and MANY folks have acheived great results and yeild doing nothing but this.

Now, if you wish to have a boosted CO2 level in your growroom, then, to do it PROPERLY, there are a few things you MUST do and buy in order to make it worth while.

Your grow room MUST be sealed. This means that no air leaks in the room, and your light ventilation. If you air cool your lights (which usually MUST be done running CO2), then it must be a closed loop system, meaning you pull air from out side the grow area, thru your lights, then exhaust it out side the grow area. There is the light requirements.

Next, you must have a good exhaust blower that is controlled by a humidistat.
That way, the exhaust will only run when the humidity goes above the setpoint you set.
For your intake (usually passive) you should have a "flapper" type intake hole that auto closes when air is not being drawn in. I forget the true name of these....

Now, you need all the CO2 equipment. Burners or Bottles. The only 2 real choices. You will also need a CO2 controller. I perfer C.A.P. controllers. You can buy one that controls all aspects of the room ventilation, along with CO2 dispersment, all in one. Look for one with "fuzy logic" for best results.

Another fun fact is to properly use your boosted CO2 levels, your grow room temps must be between 85-90 degrees, a bit higher then u would normally run without it.

There are a few other details, but that is the jist of it. Anything less then that, you are wasting your time and $$.

As far as THG concerns go, here is my 2cents. For SURE, adding any light over 600watts will increse your yeild better then adding a CO2 enrichment system to an exsiting garden say, no more then 2000watts.
If, you are running more then 2000w, then CO2 could be a viable option.
Very good point THG.

One of the MAIN reasons to use CO2, imo, is you are having a hard time controlling your temps. If you cannot maintain a "daytime" temp of 82 or below, then CO2 is the way to go. Don't fight the heat, use it to your advantage. If you run a high temp room, then your finished herb WILL be not quite as dense as you would like, I am sure. BUT, if your temps are high, and u supplement CO2, then you will have a better finished product.

Str8 up, if you do not use anykind of controller, for humidity/CO2ppm/Venting you are wasting time and loot.

CO2 is not a "magic" gas that will make your swag turn into "bomb". It is a tool.

 

[Caretaker]

Im going to hire a hundred people to just stand in my room and breath. Thats the way to get the most co2. But for some reason my buds seem to disappear. HA! Of course I am kidding. Using co2 in your room is like using 110 octane gas. Dont touch it until everything else is as good as it can be and you have no where else to improve. I wouldnt throw a co2 tank in ANY personal grow. I wouldnt even do it in a room with 50 plants or so. I would say unless you have like 100 plus plants I wouldnt worry. Lets not make our meds to expensive.

 

[Head_Down_Under]

My worried housemates have banned me from leaving lit candles in boxes filled with card, alfoil, electricity and water, which I would no doubt visit when seeking intoxication
So I've chosen fermenting sugar as an alternative source of CO2: Fortunately I've done a lot of this (to make vodka and whisky in a homemade still but thats another story). Once again I thought that I'd have a bit of fun looking at the numbers to get an idea of scale and whether or not it looks workable before rigging it up. To save repetition I've relied on chemistry bits I'd written for the burning candle maths:

Fermenting Sugar to make CO2:
Glucose -> Ethanol + CarbonDioxide
C6H1206 -> 2(C2H5OH) + 2(CO2)

1 mole sugar weighs C(6 x 12g) + H(12 x 1g) + O(6 x 16g) = 180g
And ferments to release 1 mole ethanol and 2 mole CO2
i.e. 2 mole CO2, with a volume of 2 x 22.4 litre per mole = 44.8 litre
And 1kg sugar produces 1000g / 180g x 44.8 litre = 249 litre of CO2

at 1200ppm (to raise CO2 level to 1500ppm), this makes:
249 x 1000000 / 1200 = 207500 litre CO2/air mix at 1500ppm from 1 kg sugar.

My grow area has a volume of 337litre giving 207500 / 337 = 615 volume changes
At a rate of 10 volume changes per hour this gives me the correct CO2 mix for 615 / 10 = 61 hours per kg sugar (roughly a few days). The job of fermenting a kg of sugar every few days is no real drama and I’ve always a use for the stuff (like to put through my still). It would undoubtedly be safer than burning a candle as a way to boost CO2 in the growbox.

Regarding feedback from Hemp_Goddess, Hick, HazeMe, Lotek and CoolAsAFan, yes I agree that the extra CO2 would only be of value once I’ve got everything else up to ideal rates (ideal temperature, humidity, nutrients, light etc) and yes, as I’m new to indoor growing I shall certainly have my work cut-out getting it all up the high ideal standard. But I’m the sort of guy who just cant help himself: destined to dive into the deep end and maybe pay the price later, but anyway even if I don’t achieve ideal conditions my first crop may still survive and teach me useful things for the next one.

Now if only I could get those old mongrel seeds to germinate…..

 

[Head_Down_Under]

BTW leafminer thanks for the compliment. Rusty maybe but the chemistry is coming back: its becoming fun even

 

[boney2k]

I find that talking to my plants helps

The CO2 from my breathe hits the leaves in the right spot

 

[CoolAsAFan]

But I’m the sort of guy who just cant help himself: destined to dive into the deep end and maybe pay the price later, but anyway even if I don’t achieve ideal conditions my first crop may still survive and teach me useful things for the next one.

haha, im the exact same way. out of curiousity, is fermenting the cane sugar similar to vinegar/ baking soda? can u post the chemistry/ math of that? i still believe you should perfect your enviroment before even adding c02, but ive never seen the math on these sort of subjects and it interests me. thanks HDU.

 

[Lemmongrass]

i cant belie someone neg repped me for this thread......

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

My worried housemates have banned me from leaving lit candles in boxes filled with card, alfoil, electricity and water, which I would no doubt visit when seeking intoxication
So I've chosen fermenting sugar as an alternative source of CO2: Fortunately I've done a lot of this (to make vodka and whisky in a homemade still but thats another story). Once again I thought that I'd have a bit of fun looking at the numbers to get an idea of scale and whether or not it looks workable before rigging it up. To save repetition I've relied on chemistry bits I'd written for the burning candle maths:

Fermenting Sugar to make CO2:
Glucose -> Ethanol + CarbonDioxide
C6H1206 -> 2(C2H5OH) + 2(CO2)

1 mole sugar weighs C(6 x 12g) + H(12 x 1g) + O(6 x 16g) = 180g
And ferments to release 1 mole ethanol and 2 mole CO2
i.e. 2 mole CO2, with a volume of 2 x 22.4 litre per mole = 44.8 litre
And 1kg sugar produces 1000g / 180g x 44.8 litre = 249 litre of CO2

at 1200ppm (to raise CO2 level to 1500ppm), this makes:
249 x 1000000 / 1200 = 207500 litre CO2/air mix at 1500ppm from 1 kg sugar.

My grow area has a volume of 337litre giving 207500 / 337 = 615 volume changes
At a rate of 10 volume changes per hour this gives me the correct CO2 mix for 615 / 10 = 61 hours per kg sugar (roughly a few days). The job of fermenting a kg of sugar every few days is no real drama and I’ve always a use for the stuff (like to put through my still). It would undoubtedly be safer than burning a candle as a way to boost CO2 in the growbox.

Regarding feedback from Hemp_Goddess, Hick, HazeMe, Lotek and CoolAsAFan, yes I agree that the extra CO2 would only be of value once I’ve got everything else up to ideal rates (ideal temperature, humidity, nutrients, light etc) and yes, as I’m new to indoor growing I shall certainly have my work cut-out getting it all up the high ideal standard. But I’m the sort of guy who just cant help himself: destined to dive into the deep end and maybe pay the price later, but anyway even if I don’t achieve ideal conditions my first crop may still survive and teach me useful things for the next one.

Now if only I could get those old mongrel seeds to germinate…..

You are wasting your time, energy, and money with this set-up. Haven't you absorbed anything that was told to you in this thread?

 

[boney2k]

dude. in all seriousness. i graduated in chemistry and it won't work like that.

There is more than enough CO2 in the atmosphere as long as you move the air through and have fresh air coming in!

 

[Head_Down_Under]

The_Hemp_Godess:
“You are wasting your time, energy, and money with this set-up. Haven't you absorbed anything that was told to you in this thread?”
You needn’t concern yourself about my time, energy and money and you don’t know whether I spend days or minutes on what I do. Energy? Money? A few candles for a few cents each, a kg of sugar for a buck? Just what business is it of yours anyway?

“I think you are biting off more than you may want to chew”
You don’t know how much I can chew, or what fabrication I’m capable of.

“Setting up ventilation for a small closet is difficult at best...throwing in CO2 makes it that much tougher. Your room needs to be air tight. The CO2 ppms need to be regulated and controlled. You need to coordinate your exhaust with the release of your CO2. You need higher temps”
My grow cupboard is air-tight to the low pressures I’m operating under. My carbon-filter/air extractor was enjoyable and easy to build. I know about ppm regulation and its not difficult, but I see there’s little point in bothering to explain that to you.
“...throwing in CO2 makes it that much tougher” adding CO2 below a given maximum quantity, in a controlled environment lacking other restrictions improves growth rates, period. Google it for yourself before you spout any more such rubbish

boney2k
“dude. in all seriousness. i graduated in chemistry and it won't work like that.”
Despite what you say about your having graduated in chemistry, and despite my chemistry being rusty I beg to differ with you: the CO2 levels WILL come out as I’ve described (Incidentally I have a post-grad degree in physics, amongst other things)

”There is more than enough CO2 in the atmosphere as long as you move the air through and have fresh air coming in!”
That’s just not good enough for a chemistry graduate: this is not about CO2 shortage requiring ventilation, its about the well understood, well published observation that plants under optimal conditions will grow faster in an environment with enhanced CO2.
Kindly look it up in your textbooks before spouting such rubbish. You really have a chemistry degree?

Lotek
“And the bucket o' booze method has been tried MANY MANY times. many good growers still use it even, but it is pretty much conclusively a failed tek. I used to brew sugar wine with super yeast. it grew so fast it actually carbonated my wine(i shook them alot to much was dissolved that way too) but it still took like 4-7 days to blow up a soda bottle. or 2-3 days to pop a balloon if you didn't poke holes in it.”
So why do so many ‘good growers’ still use the method when you say that its “is pretty much conclusively a failed tek(sic)”
The reason it took you days for a fast fermentation to pop a balloon is that CO2 passes readily through thin stretched rubber. If you don’t believe me then just fill a balloon with CO2, tie a knot in it and see how quickly it deflates - you’ll clearly see what I’m getting at. If you’re too lazy to bother then Google it, but once again don’t spout rubbish.

I happily declared my lack of experience with indoor growing, and I came here with a willingness to learn. I’ve met experienced folk: open-minded and helpful, and to you all thankyou very much. I also hoped to bring my skills and expertise to the forum, to make a positive contribution in the fields that I understand
But I’ve also encountered a plethora of close-minded bigots, of people writing off-topic, knocking ideas that they don’t understand, claiming to be experts when they clearly know very little, repeating what they’ve heard and mistaking it for their own experience. Its because of these people that I realize I’ve come to the wrong group. There are many Hemp grow forums out there, I shall look for one that fosters a spirit of support, nurturing and experimentation. This is my last open forum post here, and once again I thank the people who offered me constructive advice.

 

[NYC_Diesel x Jack_Herer]

If you know anything about growing or this site, you wouldn't be questioning THG. If you want to lite candles in your grow be my guest. I would love to buy cheap fire damaged housing.......EDIT
If you and I do a duplicate grow, you will see NO BENEFIT from candles, and I would love to buy your property once it is fire damaged and worth less than half what it would be worth otherwise.......really, please light a bunch of candles around your grow. When you burn down your house it will make my bud worth that much more.

Please send me your adress so that I can contact your realtor after you damage your house with fire. I could use the extra money....EDIT

Tell you what, I will offer you 50% of the value of yor home after you burn down most of it...jst to show I am a nice guy.....EDIT

2. Flaming, or open argument including, but not limited to using derogatory names toward another member, degrading comments, racial insults and sexist comments are not acceptable for use anywhere in the open forums

 

[Growdude]

So many people get on here and when they dont hear what they want to about there lame brain idea's they get mad.

 

[stonegroove]

i heard spraying sparkling water onto leafs gives extra co2 but hemp goddess told me not to, so i didn't

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I happily declared my lack of experience with indoor growing, and I came here with a willingness to learn. I’ve met experienced folk: open-minded and helpful, and to you all thankyou very much. I also hoped to bring my skills and expertise to the forum, to make a positive contribution in the fields that I understand
But I’ve also encountered a plethora of close-minded bigots, of people writing off-topic, knocking ideas that they don’t understand, claiming to be experts when they clearly know very little, repeating what they’ve heard and mistaking it for their own experience. Its because of these people that I realize I’ve come to the wrong group. There are many Hemp grow forums out there, I shall look for one that fosters a spirit of support, nurturing and experimentation. This is my last open forum post here, and once again I thank the people who offered me constructive advice.

You came here asking for advise, we gave it to you, you argued with us...you are not interested in learning. You had your mind mad up about what you wanted to do before you even asked the question.

This is not experimenting, you are kicking a dead horse. How in the hell would you know if anyone was an expert or not as you yourself have said you know nothing. Good riddance.

 

[Lemmongrass]

Question in responce to my part of you post:

Why do so many racers, car enthusiasts, rice boys, etc put spoilers on their cars? they dont have any effect even in a wind tunnel until ~160mph.... but they all still put them on their cars... even if it really is the best fasted one,it still will have a useless 300$ spoiler.

we all do stupid stuff.

And NDJH, dont say never question thg. always question everyone. just dont ignore their information.

Ive yet to hear you address the fact that even if the candles produce the co2, the plant still is not in the environmental setting required to use it. SO even if you t candles produce 1200ppm, your plant wont use one part more than the natural 300ppm that is present. they plain just dont utilize the extra co2.

 

[Six]

Whilst awaiting replies from those growers who have experience with CO2 generators and any other DIY CO2 generation, there are some ripper articles online about the benefits of supplementing CO2 to the air in commercial greenhouses. The gist is that normal levels in air are around 300ppm (parts per million), and that if the levels in a greenhouse are raised another 1200ppm, up to a total of 1500ppm, then providing all other plant needs are met (correct nutrient mix, temperature, light quality and level) then the plants will experience an increase in growth rate of between 20%-100%. This phenomenal improvement makes it common for commercial growers to add CO2 to their greenhouses. It also means huge potential benefits for the small-scale Hydroponics grower whose solved CO2 delivery problems. Although there are plenty of commercial CO2 generators available for the grower (mostly burning propane to make CO2 and H2O) they do cost quite a bit. I'm interested in alternative, cheaper, homemade solutions; hence my starting this thread for using candles for boosting CO2.
Googling "CO2" with "Hydroponics" will dig-up oodles of stuff. Here's another fascinating article about CO2 hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_dioxide

Whilst I'm confident in my ability to keep a lit candle in my growbox without causing a housefire, my housemates are less sure. I'd hoped to find feedback here from experienced growers who'd done same with no problems, that I could use to appease them (housemates). No such luck, means I must consider other ideas: If I were growing in a glasshouse outside then I'd just place the compost heap in the greenhouse. Fermenting beer in the growbox (I've plenty of hands-on experience with fermenting beverages). Fermenting sugars, not for beverage, just for CO2 etc.
The maths to calculate how much/how fast is no harder than I did for using candles. To keep the pace of fermentation down to a sufficiently slow speed means this time I'd probably put the fermenter outside the growbox and pipe the gas in. With fermentation I could use broth-temperature control to regulate CO2 production but it would be difficult to stop it altogether for dark, no-grow time.
Has anyone on this forum added CO2 in anyway? Has anyone tried fermenting to produce CO2, if not candle-burning?

I do add CO2 to my grow but this is my first grow. I just mix yeast and sugar in a gallon jug...punch a small hole in the cap and attach 1/4 inch aquarium hose...i use 4 ft flouro's (i know its not sufficient but thats what i can afford right now) so i run the hose up and on the inside of the hood so the co2 falls down on the plants...then i punch a bunch of holes in the hose up inside the hood....Now mind you, my setup is very small and very modest due to a very small budget...but i figure if there is a possibility of improving anything in even the least amount for a small price...im goona do it :watchplant: