Buds lacking density in coco

[zem]

What a year. I would like to share with you one more of my mess ups jeez here we go... I had always grown in ebb and flow and had built a system to accommodate medium plants and this year I had to switch to growing trees for the first time. I thought that I will give coco a try side by side to try and get similar or better results than i do in ebb and flow as i was worried from the complications of growing bigger plants in ebb and flow so i did 2 fabric pots with 50/50 coco perlite and 7 ebb and flow plants. The grow started awesome all the plants were growing huge and fast and i was so happy about it until i lost 6 out of 7 plants that were in ebb and flow in just two days. There was a flaw in the design and the plants grew so big that they clogged the drainage and they suffocated on a hot day only 1 survived and my 2 coco plants were doing great. By then i was cussing and cursing at the ebb and flow and was hoping to switch to coco since the plants were so healthy and it is simpler to set up. And now after harvest, the result is surprising. The ebb and flow plant has buds that are dense and weighs much more than the ones in coco. It is frustrating to say the least. Much of the lower parts of the coco plants are airy buds. The fertilizer ratio was the same for both systems but the ebb and flow would increase in ec over time due to evaporation and me not caring for it too much. I actually ignored it and gave all the love to the coco trees. The overall health of the plants was good why would they not pack on buds? I am tryin to proceed from here. My plan was to setup a simple coco grow now i will have to keep the ebb and flow and fix the drainage in a flawless way and give it a second try. I am considering trying soil but i have a few concerns. Soil is difficult to automate the watering. It also invites more bugs. And the results are not as easily duplicated as in soilless or hydro. Also where i grow is difficult to carry heavy loads so a recycling medium is a plus. I was planning to do place fabric pots on caster wheels attached to a drainage where i can move the plants around and simply place drippers and feed them on a timer schedule as i do in ebb and flow. This grow i have been hand watering those two trees daily and they just did not deliver. I hope someone has some answers for me. Thanks!

 

[WeedHopper]

I don't know anything about ebb and flow. I always used DWCs or Soil. I like soil myself. Bugs haven't really been a problem for me inside or out. Love my Fabric pots and Soil.
Probably won't ever grow Hydroponically anymore. Soil is more forgiving in the heat,, especially here in Texas.

 

[zem]

Why would they not bulk up in coco i have no idea. Ebb and flow has its drawbacks but i mastered it throughout the years and i had very high hopes with the coco grow, so high that i have already drawn plans to make the new setup based on that. My main problem with soil is that i really need to automate the grow and it is easy to overwater the soil doing that. If i can nail down a few possible reasons why i ended up with these results i would then give coco a second try side by side knowing that i have changed something.

 

[WeedHopper]

With Fabric pots I water everyday when it's hot. Not much guess work in that.
Only used Coco once and didn't care for it but to each his own.

 

[CrashMagnet]

Perlite by itself is easier to automate than coco-perlite IMO. It has to be watered more often, but is almost impossible to over water.

 

[oldfogey8]

I have never done hydro but my understanding is that in hydro, the pH must be lower than in soil/soilless grows. It sounds like you fed them the same and if your nutrient mix is tailored toward hydro, the plants in the coco may have not been able to take up the same amount of nutrients as the hydro plants. This is just a guess though.

 

[zem]

Perlite by itself is easier to automate than coco-perlite IMO. It has to be watered more often, but is almost impossible to over water.

This sounds interesting, however watering it without an ebb and flow feels sort of tricky. It would require several drippers for every plant nd is not easy to equalize the pressure for many drippers so it would end up feeding some areas in the rootzone better than others and thats why we do ebb and flow. a 50/50 perlite/coco mix is hard to overwater, in fact i am leaning more towards the possibility that i underwatered even though they needed a lot of water. My fabric pots were DIY burlap huge 100 liter containers and they were very airy from the sides i am thinking is possibly more airy than i want it to be.

I have never done hydro but my understanding is that in hydro, the pH must be lower than in soil/soilless grows. It sounds like you fed them the same and if your nutrient mix is tailored toward hydro, the plants in the coco may have not been able to take up the same amount of nutrients as the hydro plants. This is just a guess though.

I did have the ph closer to 5,8 but the plants looked great, I wonder if this could be that detrimental for bud development. I mean in soilless using synthetic fertilizers, and with 50% perlite, i thought of it more as a hydro grow.

 

[oldfogey8]

I did have the ph closer to 5,8 but the plants looked great, I wonder if this could be that detrimental for bud development. I mean in soilless using synthetic fertilizers, and with 50% perlite, i thought of it more as a hydro grow.

You could be right. I have only grown in soil so I am not certain of anything hydro or soilless. My gut feeling was just nutrient uptake as a function of pH. As an analogy, people can get fat or look relatively healthy by eating fast foods but are not really healthy at all. I am sure you will get this sorted out. As I said, it was just a guess and I am kind of like a caveman who hasn’t grasped the benefits of fire but knows it can burn me if I get too close.

 

[zem]

This is one of the 2 plants in coco. As you see, it looks amazing. It did give some buds on the top but it looks better than it is. The one in ebb and flow is smaller than this but has like double the weight in buds!

 

[oldfogey8]

This is one of the 2 plants in coco. As you see, it looks amazing. It did give some buds on the top but it looks better than it is. The one in ebb and flow is smaller than this but has like double the weight in buds!
View attachment 313165

That is a healthy looking plant for sure.

 

[RosterMan]

Are you using bloom boosters

 

[zem]

Are you using bloom boosters

No. in hydro bloom boosters are basically ferts with high pk and no or low N right? i could have overfed with N but as i said both systems had a similar npk ratio

 

[RosterMan]

No. in hydro bloom boosters are basically ferts with high pk and no or low N right? i could have overfed with N but as i said both systems had a similar npk ratio

I have not grow in coco/perlite in 10yrs but it was hydro. I followed this chart and added a few extras which I can not remember
But using the Liquid Kool Bloom along with the reg bloom made a difference.
I also got hard dense smaller buds too, much heavier than the big fluffy buds .
I never used the Grow only Micro and Bloom liquids.
I do soil now done to back injury.

 

[RosterMan]

 

[zem]

View attachment 313174

That is some really good info. Thank you my friend

 

[RosterMan]

That is some really good info. Thank you my friend

What Nute brand are you using Most companies will have their own feed charts for different types of growing
ie: one for soil
one for hydro recirculate
and one for drain to waste I did drain to waste coco perlite with approx 20% runoff to allow PH to adjust
But you are recirculating so that wont come into play.

 

[zem]

I am not recirculating the coco plants. I use yara kristalon brown with a couple of additives which worked well. I don't use molasses just aeration to the res and some h2o2 in the ebb and flow but not in the coco res. Are molasses beneficial in a sterile res with h2o2?

 

[RosterMan]

I am not recirculating the coco plants. I use yara kristalon brown with a couple of additives which worked well. I don't use molasses just aeration to the res and some h2o2 in the ebb and flow but not in the coco res. Are molasses beneficial in a sterile res with h2o2?

I use to do 2 tablespoons of molasses per gallon but never used h2o2 due to I mixed by hand and feed everyday
never used a Res. With Coco I never let it dry out. Had some nice yields too