What are the different types of lime?

[Hackerman]

There was a very nice post here not too long ago that, very nicely explained the difference between the different types of lime.

I search and could not find. Does anyone have that info?

The store is closed today and I have a 10 year old bag of Ortho Garden Lime.

It says "A Horticultural Hydrated Lime" and "Provides Calcium and Magnesium" and "Ortho Garden Lime is a finely ground hydrated dolimitic lime material containing both calcium and magnesium oxides"

Like I said, it's old but, I can't imagine that limestone goes bad. I can buy some dolomite tomorrow but I have this now and if it works there's no sense in throwing this away and buying another bag, tomorrow.

As I have read, Hydrated is bad but dolomite is good. Mine says it's hydrated dolomitic. ???? LMAO

Thanks

 

[pcduck]

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68762

Is that the thread?

 

[Hackerman]

Bingo! That's the one. Thank you very much, bud.

So, from the looks of that, my Ortho Hydrated Dolomitic lime is fine for what I'm doing.

Thanks again...

Originally Posted by National Lime Association:

Lime is a generic term, but by strict definition it embraces only the manufactured forms of lime—quicklime and hydrated lime. It does not include limestone, which is the feedstock for lime manufacturing.

Quicklime, the product of calcination of limestone, consists of the oxides of calcium and magnesium, and in the United States it is available in three forms:
High calcium quicklime--derived from limestone containing 0 to 5 percent magnesium carbonate.
Magnesian quicklime--derived from limestone containing 5 to 35 percent magnesium carbonate.
Dolomitic quicklime--derived from limestone containing 35 to 46 percent magnesium carbonate.

Hydrated lime is a dry powder manufactured by treating quicklime with sufficient water to satisfy its chemical affinity for water, thereby converting the oxides to hydroxides. Depending upon the type of quicklime used and the hydrating conditions employed, the amount of water in chemical combination varies, as follows:

High calcium hydrated lime--high calcium quicklime produces a hydrated lime containing generally 72 to 74 percent calcium oxide and 23 to 24 percent chemically combined water.

Dolomitic hydrated lime (normal)--under atmospheric hydrating conditions only the calcium oxide fraction of dolomitic quicklime hydrates, producing a hydrated lime of the following chemical composition: 46 to 48 percent calcium oxide, 33 to 34 percent magnesium oxide, and 15 to 17 percent chemically combined water.

Dolomitic hydrated lime (pressure)--this lime is produced from dolomitic quicklime under pressure, which results in hydrating all of the magnesium oxide as well as all of the calcium oxide, producing the following chemical composition: 40 to 42 percent calcium oxide, 29 to 30 percent magnesium oxide, and 25 to 27 percent chemically combined water.

 

[Wetdog]

Do not use hydrated lime, even hydrated dolomite lime. Bad JuJu and you really don't want to learn from experience.

Plain ol dolomite lime is ~$4.50 or less for a 40lb bag at Lowes or HD. Way too cheap to be messing around with hydrated.

Wet

 

[Hushpuppy]

The whole problem with hydrated lime is that it is mostly calcium, even if it is dolomitic hydrated lime. That much calcium is fine for soils that generally get rained on and have the calcium washed out of the soil, plus grass uses a lot of calcium. For MJ, that much calcium can cause nutrient lockup. And it will lock up the magnesium and raise the pH in the soil.

Save your lime to put on the lawn and then go get a small bag of Espoma Lime. It is pelletized but it breaks down quickly and easily in the soil, and it has an ideal balance of magnesium and calcium. I use it in my stuff whenever I do soilless.

 

[Hackerman]

I'll wait until tomorrow and pick up the right stuff at the hydro store.

Thanks gang.

Just FYI in the guaranteed analysis, this bag says,

Min Calcium Oxide ...41.0%
Min Magnesium Oxide ...29.5%
Min Total Oxides...70.5%
Magnesium Hydrate... 42.5%
Calcium Hydrate... 54.0%
Min Elemental Calcium... 29.3%
Min Elemental Magnesium... 17.7%
Total neutralizing power in terms of Calcium Carbonate 146.9
Min Calcium Carbonate equivalent derived from magnesium sources... 73.4%

Wondering how that will compare against what I buy tomorrow.

Thanks again

 

[Wetdog]

Uuuuhhhhhhh I'd avoid buying lime at the hydro store.

Unless the bags they have there are under $5, as it is at Lowes or HD. Your call and your $$$$$.

BTW, the Espoma is dolomite lime. Good stuff, just a bit pricey for lime.

Wet

 

[Hackerman]

The only stuff Home Depot had was a 50 pound bag of Hydrolized (I assume that means hydrated) Pellets.

The guy at the hydro store is usually pretty good to me. I did him a couple favors recently so he has been giving me giant discounts. LOL

I have some running to do tomorrow so I can check a couple places including the garden store (if they have not closed for the season).

Thanks again for the help. I'll keep you all updated.

 

[Hackerman]

The only stuff the hydro store had was Espoma pelletized Garden Lime. I have heard one of the girls here talking about it so I figure it's OK.

3 liter bag (about 7 pounds) was under $5. At a tablespoon a container, this will last a lifetime.

It's brown??? I guess I expected it to be white. Never seen brown lime. LOL

I won't water for a couple more days so I should probably wait until then to add it.

Overall, things are looking better. New growth is green and the smell is incredible. I gave them Cal-Mag and a little Tiger last watering. Only about 2 more weeks until harvest.

Thanks again for all the help on this. I learned a lot from you.

 

[pcduck]

I believe it is prilled.

 

[Hushpuppy]

The Espoma Lime is what I use. It is a processed lime to get a good balance of available nutrients. That would account for it being brown.

 

[Wetdog]

I believe it is prilled.

Yeah, that brown stuff is just a binding clay enclosing powdered dolomite. It dissolves with the first watering. The powdered lime inside is pretty much white.

Take a little and put it in a glass of water. The water will turn brown and there will be a pile of white lime at the bottom of the glass. A quick show and tell.

If you can scratch the pellets into the surface of the mix, it helps. If you can't (surface roots), no big deal, it will still get to where it needs to go.

Wet

 

[Hackerman]

The bag says pelletized but it's not like the giant pellets they had at Home Depot. I'll put some in water and do the show and tell tomorrow.

I was able to scratch them pretty deep into the soil. More than an inch so it should be getting in there.

I saw a couple plants with amber trics today so I'm probably only a few days or a week from harvest anyway.

I have another crop all ready to go into the flower room. Same strain. When I put them in, I'll put some of this lime in every pot.

View attachment k2-_6736a2a8-cc92-4214-808f-7778667bf8e9.v1.jpg

 

[Hushpuppy]

That is the lime that I use Don't get carried away with adding it. I did and had a fit with my plants struggling. I ended up having to flush it out and start over.

 

[Hackerman]

I put about 1/2 tsp to 1 tsp into 3 pots to test it. I have bad memories of using lime. LOL

The point is becoming moot as some have amber already so I'll probably be harvesting soon.

I do have another crop ready to move into this room and I am going to lime all of them on the way into the room. They are 3 quart pots. Is 1 tsp too much?

Thanks again for all the help along the way.

 

[Wetdog]

IDK, *I* think both of you did something else and putting the blame on lime.

The reason I say this besides years of using the bagged lime is, years ago I grew some stuff in pure crushed limestone (oolitic limestone). It was an emergency deal (no mix), and there was a dump truck load of it in the yard. The drainage sucked, but nothing got burnt, deformed, or had bad things happen to it. I mean, nothing like 100% lime to settle any 'too much' issues. Oolitic is also almost pure Calcium Carbonate from ancient coral reefs.

Calcium is very important for a lot of things. Now being considered almost as important as nitrogen for good growth and flowering.

Not only do I use 1cup/cf of lime, but I also add 1cup/cf of Gypsum that adds more Ca and very important Sulfur. Gypsum doesn't affect the pH though. The Calcium has to be in carbonate form for pH buffering.

Anyway, the bagged lime can be over applied. The harm is physical in that it will turn into something like concrete because it's ground so fine. Gypsum on the other hand actually loosens the soil matrix and improves aeration and drainage.

What I do is add enough lime to buffer pH and for any extra Ca go to the Gypsum. Adding the extra Ca this year (I top dressed with Gypsum), made a very noticeable difference, for the good.

Really opened my eyes AFA Calcium goes.

Wet

 

[Hushpuppy]

The mistake I made in adding too much is that I caused my pH to jump to 7.8 and stay there until I flushed it out.

PCduck Just pointed out to me that I made an incorrect statement in an earlier thread. I said that Dolomite lime has more magnesium than calcium. I was incorrect with that. The ratio of calcium to magnesium in naturally occurring Dolomitic lime varies but seems to always have a higher content of calcium. I also thought that Espoma's Lime had a higher magnesium to calcium content. I went back to look at my bag and ffound that while the ratio of calcium to magnesium is close to even, there is still more calcium than magnesium in it. So I decided to do some investigating.

I went back and took a very close look at my Espoma Lime and discovered that it is not higher in magnesium than calcium. I misread the materials on the bag and understood it to be higher in magnesium than calcium. Espoma lime is not just naturally ground dolomite lime. It is a processed lime that uses a few different things to produce what they feel to be the best ratio and formulation of raw elements to produce their lime.

I did some research and found that there is a significant debate about the best ratio of calcium to magnesium to use for gardening. It appears that different applications such as certain plants and vegetables seem to do better with a more even ratio of calcium to magnesium, while plants such as grasses do better with a higher calcium to magnesium ratio. It has been my experience and the experience of others that I have spoken to, and read some articles that I have read, that MJ requires a more balanced ratio of calcium to magnesium in the soil/medium.


I also read that there appears to be a link between soil/medium which has more coarse material and better drainage, and a tendency to acquire magnesium deficiency. This could partially account for the soilless mediums needing to be amended with a cal/mag additive.


PC thanks for making me go back and look more closely at this topic. I stand corrected.

 

[Hackerman]

I have never heard of adding lime to water. Can you do that to get a faster result?

 

[Wetdog]

:goodposting::goodposting::goodposting: +Rep

That was excellent research. I had no idea about the blending of the Espoma. I always thought it was just plain old ground dolomite like I get at the feed store, just more expensive. lol

Wet

 

[Wetdog]

I have never heard of adding lime to water. Can you do that to get a faster result?

Meh .... Lime is ground rock and really doesn't dissolve.

DOH!!!!!!! I just realized you were talking about the water in the glass bit. The Clay Binder dissolves and the lime will settle to the bottom and not dissolve.

It was just a little show and tell on how pelletized (prilled?), lime is released/works.

Wet