Vape Concentrates

[zem]

I respectfully disagree.

In places/countries with lots of rocks you see homes made from stone.

In places/countries surrounded by forest you see homes built from trees.

Look at Sicily. All stone. So little wood is used they don't need fire departments!

Poor countries = cheap labor. Rocks are basically free. It's the labor cost that makes building homes from stone not cost effective.

it all makes sense. I think that those are very probable reasons

 

[Rosebud]

Jimmca, no fire department sounds like a great idea, especially for California. I have never been to Ssicily. I think it sounds lovely.

 

[umbra]

I'm from the east coast. My town was settled in 1683. There were tons of trees and tons of stone in the fields. They built houses out of both and many are still standing. There was a fire in the 1820's that took many of the older homes. Most of the homes that remain are from the 1850's to 1920's. Most have fieldstone foundations.

 

[Hackerman]

HG, did you ever get to try your liquid? I tried several different methods to get a product I could vape in a conventional liquid vaporizer and nothing ever got close. It always separated quite quickly. I only used vegetable glycerin. I was not aware that they had any special stuff other than glycerin.

I did try several methods. And, SkunkPharm did an article on it a while back and they did a great job (as always) but they had to use a homogenizer to mix it. They claim it's the only thing with enough torque to mix the glycerin and BHO. Those things spin at 8000 rpm and a cheap one costs over $500. Nice ones are a grand. Still, the method they use of heating, stirring, repeat. Heat, stir, repeat might give us some guidance. Here's the article...

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/emulsifying-vegetable-glycerin-and-bho-for-e-juice-by-steve-gold/

If you're still in Idaho, I hope you find a buried treasure under the floor boards. It happens.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[umbra]

HG, did you ever get to try your liquid? I tried several different methods to get a product I could vape in a conventional liquid vaporizer and nothing ever got close. It always separated quite quickly. I only used vegetable glycerin. I was not aware that they had any special stuff other than glycerin.

I did try several methods. And, SkunkPharm did an article on it a while back and they did a great job (as always) but they had to use a homogenizer to mix it. They claim it's the only thing with enough torque to mix the glycerin and BHO. Those things spin at 8000 rpm and a cheap one costs over $500. Nice ones are a grand. Still, the method they use of heating, stirring, repeat. Heat, stir, repeat might give us some guidance. Here's the article...

https://skunkpharmresearch.com/emulsifying-vegetable-glycerin-and-bho-for-e-juice-by-steve-gold/

If you're still in Idaho, I hope you find a buried treasure under the floor boards. It happens.

Let us know how it turns out.

I thought that they wound up using a dremel tool as a homogenizer

 

[EugeneOregon]

This is a bit off of what folks normally do, but when preparing extract for vaping folks often winterize the extract in order to remove the cloudy waxes that inevitably precipitate out of solution if not removed. They also impart a bad taste.

The method is posted below along with a link to Coppenhagen University that explains the general concept. I have made pure thc from extract using the method of DCVC, but posted here is a version of DCVC configured in reverse phase mode using aluminum oxide, water and methanol. Methanol is the only alcohol that will not form an azeotrope with water and is therefor easy to recover through distillation, but any alcohol will work here. I started using this method a long time ago with isopropyl alcohol.

This method dispenses with winterizing altogether and does a complete job of removing waxes plus removing a portion of the alpha pinene - a terpene notorious for triggering snot nose, runny eyes, and coughing is too much is present. However, this method is actually faster than winterizing given that time spent cooling the product is not needed. Otherwise it is substantially the same procedure but in chromatography style.

If you dewax completely you will find that the extract is not only extremely potent, but much easier to disolve which means you do not need as much vape juice at all to keep things flowing well. I believe from vaping my chromatography results(I produce pure thc from normal phase DCVC as demonstrated from the Coppenhagen University video over silica gel using hexane and ethyl acetate as shown), that the alpha pinene if not removed or reduced interferes with the potency of the high. Removing it seems to increase potency considerably all by itself.

Good luck!

https://youtu.be/51HJGXaKBDE
http://curlyarrow.blogspot.com/2017/02/dry-column-vacuum-chromatography-dcvc.html

 

[Hackerman]

I thought that they wound up using a dremel tool as a homogenizer

Duh!! Great idea. I was thinking drills and fan motors. Nothing I could think of was fast enough. I never considered my Dremmel tool. I think mines rated at 4000 rpm so it might actually work. Awesome idea.

OK, Mr. Smarty Pants (LOL j/k).... what's your idea for a blade? The device they use looks more like a 'planner' blade than a 'blender' blade.

Too bad my Vitamix is so big. The Vitamix goes fast enough to generate enough heat to make hot soups right in the blender. I always thought those Vitamix blenders that make soup had some kind of heater in them. The fact is, the blade goes so fast, it generates the heat to cook the soup. However, unless I'm making a quart of this stuff.... it way too big. LOL

I'd love to hear any ideas for a blade. I have a gig tonight so I can't play tonight but tomorrow is hangover day. A perfect day to try a new edible. LOL

I have some veg glycerin and about 2 grams of BHO. If I can find a suitable blade and a rig to hold everything, I'll try some things tomorrow.

Thanks again for the Dremmel idea. One variable solved.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Yes, Hackerman, I did get the vape liquid made and it is a hit. Using the right liquidizer is critical IMO. One thing I found out is that vegetable glycerine by itself will not liquidize concentrates. I wasted a big bunch of hash and kief trying to make it dissolve in vegetable glycerine. After some exploring online, I bought something called Vapeur Extract, which is made for concentrates. I put it in the microwave for about 10 seconds and it mixed and stayed mixed and has virtually no aftertaste (NO homogenizer needed, just use the right liquidizer). Like I mentioned earlier, I had purchased a gram of Cinex BHO to use for this as I wanted a known concentrate (and am somewhat afraid of making BHO myself). I figured when I got the vape process down, I could try and maybe make some concentrates myself...one step at a time.

Unfortunately, no treasure under the floorboards

 

[Kraven]

Agreed Hack, please dont waste good concentrate

 

[yarddog]

so i can use dry ice hash to make my vape liquid?
edit.. so i see they do not recommend using hash or kief due to plant matter. how hard is it to make oil from hash?

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Yarddog, I have not run across the recommendation to not use hash or keif...where did you read that?

 

[yarddog]

Yarddog, I have not run across the recommendation to not use hash or keif...where did you read that?

i saw it on the web site umbra posted about. wax liquifier. maybe it was just that product. what do you use THG? i have hash, but if needed i will tool up and learn how to make oil. i want to make my own vape carts, and if i have to buy the tools i need to make the product i want, then that's just what it takes.

 

[umbra]

Dog, hashoil from kief/dry ice hash is super easy. If I'm not mistaken Kraven uses dry ice hash dissolved in 190% ethanol. Does a cold filter to winterize and remove particulate matter, evaporates the alcohol and uses the that for his carts. Rosin press is just as easy.

 

[yarddog]

Thanks umbra. That's great info. I'll check with him and see what he does and uses.

 

[Kraven]

Yes sir you have to winterize the hash and strip the waxes off before you use it, EToH is a good solvent but still has a flash point so I'm moving towards solvent-less and getting a press and tea bags for pressing. That way I can dab and use the concentrate to both cook and make carts when the need arises. I used EJMix as my liquidizer and then 8 sec's in the microwave quick stir and then shoot that into an empty cart. Seems to work well, but I have by no means perfected the method.

 

[Hackerman]

Awesome info gang.

I checked out the EJMix and the VapeurExtract web sites. Both sites had the ingredients listed.

The EJMix is Propylene Glycol and 3 different grades of Polyethylene Glycol (AKA PEG). The EJMix uses PEG 200, 300 and 400. The numbers designate the viscosity with 200 being about water thin and 600 being a thick liquid. Over 700 and the PEG becomes a waxy solid.

The Vapeur Extract uses Propylene Glycol also but only uses one grade of PEG (400). They also add vegetable glycerin.

From what little reading I did, it appears that the concept is to 'suspend' the concentrate in the liquid (rather than actually combining them at a molecular level). Which is actually a great idea because you don't risk contaminating the concentrate in any way. The liquid is just a 'carrier' that carries it 'piggyback'. Pretty neat idea.

If you could figure the exact mix they use to get it just right, the ingredients are more like $25 a liter instead of $25 per ounce. It's all readily available at any drug store. I guess the million dollar question is... how much of each.

See there HG, if you had found a treasure in the floorboards, we could have bought an answer to that question. LOL

I checked on eBay (my goto source. LOL) and found both items for about the same price as they sell for on their web sites. I also found plain PEG400 readily available (and considerably cheaper). I'm not too concerned about the prices of the liquidizers but I'll bet the people making commercial aren't paying $25 an ounce. LOL

I am going to order one of them but I have a question. How much to how much? One of the web sites suggested 1:1 but how do you comparably measure the shatter consistency of the rosin to the liquid measure of the liquidizer?

Also, what to vap it in. I have some older 'wick style' vapor thingys and I have a regular cigarette looking device that has replaceable filters that you fill yourself. They just have the cotton stuff inside.

And, HG, I hate making BHO too. And I am not one to play with heating Ethanol. I am way too stoned all the time to take risks like that. Rosin has been a dream come true for me. Nice strong, clean concentrate that I'm not always afraid to smoke (or make). Rosin rules. LOL With your mechanical skills, I'll bet you could put together an awesome press, no problem.

 

[bombbudpuffa]

Thanks for the thread THG! I've been needing some cartridges/refills and I think I might go this route.

 

[Hackerman]

Thanks for the thread THG! I've been needing some cartridges/refills and I think I might go this route.

Ditto on that. I just ordered the Vapeur Extract Starter Kit.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

When I had made carts in the past, I used a method similar to Kraven, but did not winterize, obviously a needed step that I will look into.

Hackerman, I have been looking into making rosin. That seems more up my alley and nice and safe. And yeah, I am pretty good at McGyvering things up. I am in Idaho and believe that I have a hair straightener at my place somewhere. I have also seen one online called the Tarik Rosin Press that I am checking out. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0728BHLCH/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

It is incredibly nice to be able to go to the dispensary and buy concentrates though. I paid $38 for a gram of Cinex BHO, used about $2 of liquidizer and ended up with a little under 2 ml of kick-*** vape concentrate. Sure beats the $60-80 a gram prefilled carts from the dispensary.

I also ordered the Vapeur Extract starter kit. The bottle (written by someone that English was not their first language) says that a 2VE:1E ratio is typical, but I wanted a strong concentrate. I was going to shoot for a ratio of 1 ml liquidizer to 1 gram of concentrate, but the 1 ml of Vapeur Extract did not cover the concentrate, so I added another 1/2 ml, ending up with a 1.5:1 mixture. I put it in the microwave as it is easier than setting up a double boiler. Kind of comparing apples and oranges when comparing mass and volume, but a gram of water is 1 ml, so even though the liquidizer is denser than water, I kind of operated with the 1 gram = 1ml thinking. I am also a big fan of E-Bay, but found the Vapeur Extract was cheaper through their website than I could find it on E-Bay. They shipped really fast. However, speaking of E-Bay, I ordered 5 batteries and 5 empty carts so I can share with friends.

I agree that the liquidizers could be made a lot cheaper. Both VG and PEG are inexpensive. One of the things I remember reading was that you need at least PEG 400 for concentrates. However, unless I get into making a lot more, 30 ml will last me a while. Even a 1/2 gram cart lasts a long time.

 

[umbra]

the tarkin press is a waste of money.