Simple Question about LED

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Pretty pictures indeed!
When you say half the wattage, do you mean the stated wattage of the LED or the actual draw? As I understand it, they do not (and should not) run flat out.. ie 3 watt LEDs don't actually use 3 watts (by design)

I'm only ever talking actual draw. Super important, and a good question.

Otherwise, the listed wattage can say whatever they want, and many of them do. In fact most list what the wattage of the total LED diodes are in total which is very miss leading to most.

The worst part is then they tell you that they are the equivalent of whatever HID they want to throw out there.

If not for anything else, I tip my hat to California Light Works for getting the correct information out there and I feel made other new comer LED companies follow suit.

In a not to far distant past, companies weren't even telling you what the lights draw was...
 
I'm only ever talking actual draw. Super important, and a good question.

Otherwise, the listed wattage can say whatever they want, and many of them do. In fact most list what the wattage of the total LED diodes are in total which is very miss leading to most.

The worst part is then they tell you that they are the equivalent of whatever HID they want to throw out there.

If not for anything else, I tip my hat to California Light Works for getting the correct information out there and I feel made other new comer LED companies follow suit.

In a not to far distant past, companies weren't even telling you what the lights draw was...

I bought early and paid through the nose for mine. I looked more at the pattern, and had no idea what would be comparable in wattage. No matter, I wanted LEDs. When I stuck my wattage checker thingie on it, I was royally ticked off because yup, they just multiplied 3W x number of LEDs and stuck a label on it.
 
Well about anything can happen. It is a calculated risk. If a tree falls on my home while I am away, my home will be checked to make sure that propane, water, and electricity are off. I could have a heart attack and the paramedics who come into my home could discover my grows. I could....I could....It is a calculated risk. We want to be as safe as possible. But it is generally electrical problems that cause fires and 1000W draw is 1000W draw regardless of what is drawing it.

In over 16 years of running a 1000W HPS in an air cooled hood, I have never ever had a bulb explode. I believe that this has to be an extremely rare occurrence. The fires were probably related to inadequate electrical conditions.

Yup, I get a tad melodramatic about fire but that's just because I am not in a single family house on it's own lot. If I came home to fire, well, I'd rather not go there.
And of course you're absolutely right about how unlikely I'd get discovered that way. I have a vistor who's a friggin' bloodhound, every time he comes in here, he bellows out: "PHEW! what's that? You got a grow op in here?" I wanna smack him but just carry on about how careful I am with my vaporizer and would he please shut the eff up! It's in a locked basement (I can never find the key when somebody wants a tour of the place), panda lined room, can on the exhaust down in to the basement drain. Nobody else coming in here says squat.
Sometimes I drive through neighborhoods and I recognize that grow room smell, not the same as smoking it, hard to define, but I wouldn't vent through a can out on to a sidewalk for example. Like you say, smell, loose lips and garbage... I sometimes run out to the garbage truck pretending I'm late and toss it in myself but even that is odd enough. Thank gawd for the actual smoke itself or I'd be a total basket case.
 
Yup, I get a tad melodramatic about fire but that's just because I am not in a single family house on it's own lot. If I came home to fire, well, I'd rather not go there.
And of course you're absolutely right about how unlikely I'd get discovered that way. I have a vistor who's a friggin' bloodhound, every time he comes in here, he bellows out: "PHEW! what's that? You got a grow op in here?" I wanna smack him but just carry on about how careful I am with my vaporizer and would he please shut the eff up! It's in a locked basement (I can never find the key when somebody wants a tour of the place), panda lined room, can on the exhaust down in to the basement drain. Nobody else coming in here says squat.
Sometimes I drive through neighborhoods and I recognize that grow room smell, not the same as smoking it, hard to define, but I wouldn't vent through a can out on to a sidewalk for example. Like you say, smell, loose lips and garbage... I sometimes run out to the garbage truck pretending I'm late and toss it in myself but even that is odd enough. Thank gawd for the actual smoke itself or I'd be a total basket case.

with time, I got used to having my grow close to neighbors without me worrying at all. the entry of my basement is on a common stairway, and when i go in there i would keep the door open and light on, this looks so much more normal than seeing me getting out of a dark basement, and I have tools and stuff that are the perfect excuse for a guy to spend some free time there. I have had people go in with no problems, I feed their curiosity early on and get it done with, they think they know whats in the basement, and don't want to go there again. I actually get foreign workers to go in my growroom and work there when my plants are out, and they are ignorant clueless poor people and they could not tell what they are building, and when they see my veggies seeds sprouting in my cloning chamber, they think that this is an indoor nursery for my veggies greenhouse. IMO paranoia is another reason that people are suspicious, like "neighbors keep to themselves", well if I had to close up on myself and be paranoid all the time, then i'd rather not grow. I always treated mj like wat it was, a plant. my first ever grow was on an open roof, i was still at school, i took my shots and just placed them in huge buckets up there, a lot of people saw it, some commented on it, but i pretended that its just some bird feed residues that sprouted, i never cared less if cops would know and it just passed and was harvested with no issues.
 
with time, I got used to having my grow close to neighbors without me worrying at all. the entry of my basement is on a common stairway, and when i go in there i would keep the door open and light on, this looks so much more normal than seeing me getting out of a dark basement, and I have tools and stuff that are the perfect excuse for a guy to spend some free time there. I have had people go in with no problems, I feed their curiosity early on and get it done with, they think they know whats in the basement, and don't want to go there again. I actually get foreign workers to go in my growroom and work there when my plants are out, and they are ignorant clueless poor people and they could not tell what they are building, and when they see my veggies seeds sprouting in my cloning chamber, they think that this is an indoor nursery for my veggies greenhouse. IMO paranoia is another reason that people are suspicious, like "neighbors keep to themselves", well if I had to close up on myself and be paranoid all the time, then i'd rather not grow. I always treated mj like wat it was, a plant. my first ever grow was on an open roof, i was still at school, i took my shots and just placed them in huge buckets up there, a lot of people saw it, some commented on it, but i pretended that its just some bird feed residues that sprouted, i never cared less if cops would know and it just passed and was harvested with no issues.

:shocked:
 
---trimmed ---

To replace a 1000 watt HID use roughly half the wattage, so 500 watts roughly. 460 to be exact. Just keep in mind you want to use more- smaller fixtures over larger more powerful [heat making] ones.

If I use the actual wattage figure, for LEDs, do i still need 35 - 50 w per sq ft ? (or can i halve that too, 17 -25 w)
 
Keeping it real the 90 watt number is for sure the high side of things and crush HPS square foot for square foot.
Most of my areas are at 60 watts PSF range and do at and above 1GPW

The 90 watts per square foot that everyone is starting to use is a little misleading, so please let me clarify.
Lets say you have an area to grow in like a master bed closet that is 5 x 5 but you are only growing one plant.
To allow for loss of light you need to be at around 90 watts per square foot, and what I had also previously stated
is that one would equal of better HPS at twice the wattage.
In other words, that .5 GPW that most achieve at 1000 watts of HPS can now be achieved at 500 watts of LED tech.

If you have more of an area to light and will be using several fixtures you really only need about 60 watts PSF, due to
reflection and the overlapping of lights with no wasted coverage.

I'd rather people throw around the 60 watts PSF over 90 TBH.

I'd put 540 watts of power over that 3x3 and call it a day. You should kill it with the right strain.

Shoot for as close to 60w (or more) DRAW wattage per square foot as you can afford to.

I'm only ever talking actual draw. Super important, and a good question.

Otherwise, the listed wattage can say whatever they want, and many of them do.
In fact most list what the wattage of the total LED diodes are in total which is very miss leading to most.

PJ usually refers to DRAW wattage #'s as its the only way we can try to compare different fixtures from different manufacturers.
:48:
 
Would a 300w LED light be good for like 1 mega plant in a closet? In three different closets of the house! :p
 
Shoot for as close to 60w (or more) DRAW wattage per square foot as you can afford to.



PJ usually refers to DRAW wattage #'s as its the only way we can try to compare different fixtures from different manufacturers.
:48:[/QUOTE

60W per sq ft?!?! Not what I wanted to hear, Joe :) I guess my logic is screwed up but but but... if he's saying I can use less than half the wattage for the same area, that would mean LEDs would half the wattage requirement per square foot, no?
 
LOL 90 is what some of us NUTS shoot for :stoned:

the thing is there is tent growing and then ROOM growing
tents focus "all" the light, rooms... don't

us "small timers" in tents can use a bit less wattage since we aren't loosing as much as the
bigger grow's room does
 
Would a 300w LED light be good for like 1 mega plant in a closet? In three different closets of the house! :p

You should see what the lads are doing around here with single plants under 400W HIDs. Check out the grow threads. You will be amazed at what some of these guys can get from one seed.

Sorry about waylaying your thread like that, it seemed relevant though.
3 separate closets sounds like a ventilation nightmare. I'm starting to think I should've gone with tents.
 
What is the Draw to the LEDs? Is it the lack of heat or what? I mean ive seen some nice grows dont get me wrong,,,ive just never seen the nice Big Dence Buds like ive seen with HPS.
Ive done T5 Grows that compare to what ive seen with LEDs so far,,so i was just woundering what the upshot to LEDS are. And dont get mad,,im just curious.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=819918&postcount=19
 
What is the Draw to the LEDs? Is it the lack of heat or what? I mean ive seen some nice grows dont get me wrong,,,ive just never seen the nice Big Dence Buds like ive seen with HPS.
Ive done T5 Grows that compare to what ive seen with LEDs so far,,so i was just woundering what the upshot to LEDS are. And dont get mad,,im just curious.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=819918&postcount=19

There are several draws. Half the power = half the cost to flower and veg your plants.

Plants have far less stretch under LED compared to HID lighting.

Because LED light feeds the plants unlike HID lighting, less food is used to grow your plants.

Cooling a room can be done much easier and no more running exhaust fans cooling lights.

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And now you can't say you haven't seen any dense nugs of any size.

When I am on the average pulling 1.5 to 1.7 GPW on plants vegged 14 to 21 days it would be silly to even consider every using HID lighting again for me.

I never got these numbers with HID, and if anyone out there claims to do better, then lets see it.

I've got well over 100 strains documented under LED now if you'd like to see more pics. Everything Hammy does now is LED as well and he does not have a year under his belt quite yet.

Oh, I did forget one important thing about LED's.

They make trics go crazy.

View attachment 9.jpg
 
Oh theres no doubt those are nice buds,,,but i still dont see the Big Dence Buds i see from HPS. Ive seen HUGE BUDS from HPS,,,have not seen that from LEDS yet. Thoses are nice,,,but nowhere near as big as what i have seen with HPS. Im not saying your not growing nice Girls,,cause they are pretty. But most look Fluffy to me, compared to what ive seen here at MP with HPS grows. Plus the cost of LED light systems is what crosses my eyes.
I do think you guys grow the best looking Buds ive seen grown by LEDS .

Found this,,not sure how acurate.

Watt-for-watt, most grow lights give off about a similar amount of heat. Some lights are more efficient than others (for example HPS is more efficient than CFLs, and will produce more light and less heat for the same amount of electricity), but when it comes to determining heat, wattage is a good way to generally estimate how much heat is going to be generated in your grow room.

That means that 400W of CFLs will produce about the same amount of heat as 400W worth of HPS or LEDs. One of the big differences is how each of the types of lights dissipate extra heat.

While some MH/HPS lights are installed as a naked bulb under a reflector (cheap “wing” style HPS hoods), MH/HPS lights are often encased within an enclosed hood that allows the grower to hook up the light system directly with ducting so an exhaust fan can be used to expel the heat.

LED models are usually built with heatsinks and/or built-in fans to help disperse the heat evenly without concentrating any heat directly on the plants. Even with these extra bells and whistles, it’s still important to use an exhaust system to get rid of extra heat unless it’s naturally cold in the grow room.

CFLs unfortunately don’t have any built-in way to disperse heat because they were not originally intended to be grow lights (or used in huge numbers like they are in most CFL grows). With CFLs, the main way to deal with heat is to keep the grow very small or disperse heat with an exhaust system.

If a claim about grow lights sounds too good to be true... it probably is!

Warning! Be wary of crazy claims!
If something sounds too good to be true about a grow light, it probably is!

Especially when it comes to LED grow lights, there is a lot of misinformation out there. The truth is that when it comes to growing cannabis, LED grow lights are not currently more efficient than an HPS light when it comes to yields/watt. 400W of HPS will almost always get more yields from cannabis than 400W of LED.

Yields & Potency

When it comes to improving your yields, the most efficient grow light is an HPS. When I say "efficient," I mean the amount of usable light produced for the amount of electricity needed. Because HPS lights are so efficient, using an HPS light during your cannabis flowering/budding phase is the fastest way to improve your yields.

When it comes to improving your potency, LED grow lights seem to help the plant produce more trichomes and bring out the natural odor of the plant, and many growers believe the overall quality and potency of buds is increased when using LED lights during the flowering stage.

A combination of HPS and LEDs seems to provide some of the best benefits of both - big yields plus high quality and potency. This may be because a combination of HPS plus LEDs more closely mimics the autumn sunlight that cannabis plants are exposed to in the wild
.

A recent cannabis harvest - buds are drying on racks

Cannabis plants can use a lot of light, and this upgrade guide will help you figure out the best way to upgrade your grow lights in your budget, but there comes a point when adding more light just doesn’t increase yields any more.

Please note: The further your grow light from the plants, the less powerful the brightness but the greater and area the light will cover. The key is finding the right type of lights that give you both the coverage and brightness you need to achieve your goals.

At some point, cannabis hits a saturation point and just can’t use any more light. This usually happens when a grower has more than 100W of grow lights per square foot. This also can happen when the grower keeps powerful lights very close to plants. In this case, you can actually increase yields even further by sealing your entire grow area supplementing with CO2.

Just remember that adding extra CO2 to your grow room is a waste of time and money unless you’ve hit the maximum amount of light that your plants can use, and you will have to completely seal off your grow area (so it’s basically airtight) in order to supplement with CO2 effectively. It’s important to note that while supplementing with CO2 may increase your yields, it does not affect the quality or potency of your buds
 
That means that 400W of CFLs will produce about the same amount of heat as 400W worth of HPS or LEDs. One of the big differences is how each of the types of lights dissipate extra heat.

Just tossing this out there. 400w of LED are worth around 400w of HPS... in marketing speak. 400w LED is labeled as such, and most 400w LED's have 175-220 Actual Draw Power (a term now being used by LED companies in their specs) Actual Draw is all that matters when considering LED. They mark it at 400w because they are basically claiming it is an equivalent to 400w HID in delivery, but they really only draw half of that (there's your half of savings on your electric)

Check this out, I replaced my 1,200watts (2 fixtures) of HPS for 1,600watts equivalent (4 fixtures) but I'm now only ACTUALLY drawing about 700watts from my outlet. You see, that's 175w x 4 fixtures = end result, and now that's with 4 (led) fixtures instead of 2 (hps) fixtures, so my footprint is now way more versatile! I can move my levels more precisely and have much better direct lighting coverage with about half the actual draw ($$ saved)

Also, my fixtures aren't even close to as hot as the HPS was running. I was tentative too WH, but after going balls deep and buying 8 fixtures, I'm very happy with my choice...and now I'm even looking to sell my HPS fixtures I do believe. :D

I did week 5-8 with LED's on my last run, and they are just as dense as the densest thing I ever ran with HPS. Currently, I have a run that will have had all 8 weeks under LED, and they are just over 4 weeks in. Something of notice...

Oh, I did forget one important thing about LED's.
They make trics go crazy

^^No lie here! I was impressed to see trichs growing to the TIPS of the large fan leaves...some the size of my hand, with trichs going right to near the ends! Very excited to see what happens here with my last 4 weeks, but so far I'm very much impressed with LED's.

Not trying to nay say, or "side" a way or not.. but my current testings (detailed in my Dr's Office) have shown some amazing things, and I can't wait to see where else I can go from here.
 
Warning! Be wary of crazy claims!
If something sounds too good to be true about a grow light, it probably is!

I very much agree with this :) There's some crazy *** companies out there!!
 
How much are those 4 LED fixtures?
And I am not apposed to Evolution of Growing Lights,,as long as it involves,,Evolving.
If they ever bring the prices down i might give it a try after i see a side by side that shows Evolution.
 
Maybe I just need to see a REAL side by side done here at MP,,with everything is exactly the same( Space,Medium,Nutes and TLC) except Lighting of course,,,and nobody jacking the HPS grow whilst nobody can see. lol
 

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