Organic Questions?

[kindphriend]

Well, my plants are looking good and healthy. The tallest one is about 14 inches right now and i´m going to change the light cycle early next week. I have a couple of questions for you organic growers out there. I am planning to do a bat guano mix for my soil. I am going to buy unfertilized soil and mix in some bat guano. My questions are: Is there anything else I should mix in? Can I add ferts when watering? Anything else I should keep in mind when doing this?

 

[noodles]

worm castings

 

[shuggy4105]

is worm castings essential, or is there some sort of substitute like fert, bone meal.Then once they have sprouted,transplant them to the pots with a mix inclusive of "worm casstings"?

 

[DankCloset]

alright, iam going to explain this, and then iam going to see if i cant make a "guide or post" this is going to be about N-P-K.
if u dont know, u will now.

npk are the scientic abreviations for 3 compounds plants absolutely need to survive. first is nitrogen, second is potassium, third is phosphorus.
now nitrogen's function is to allow for glucose to be made(photocynthesis) i.e very green leaves have a adequate amount of nitrogen.
potassium helps/allows pretty much for the transfer of glucose to happen down the stem, transfer of it to where its needed. and also helps the plant store it. now phosphorus is a tricky one, its main function is the roots, this allows plants to help break down nutrients assimilated by the roots. having adequate amounts of phosphorus, how will i know? well you will have a very well developed root ball and they will be white as all hell, indicating no root rot, burn or mold. hope this helps, if anyone wants, they can copy and paste for a sticky, i noticed nothin was said on npk.

you will know the content of each by lookin at the "rates" or amount in content. will look like this
5-5-10 or 0-10-0 depending on what your looking at and whats needed.

 

[kindphriend]

Thanx for lesson DC. I already know about the levels of NPK for the plants, however I was wondering if there was another organic compound, other than guano, that I should mix in. This is because guano has a high P and Mg content with lack of K. I believe that K is also very important for the flowering stage as well. So if anyone else has done a bat guano mix before.....did they put anything else in their mix to supplement the other compounds that are lacking.

 

[Elephant Man]

Thanx for lesson DC. I already know about the levels of NPK for the plants, however I was wondering if there was another organic compound, other than guano, that I should mix in. This is because guano has a high P and Mg content with lack of K. I believe that K is also very important for the flowering stage as well. So if anyone else has done a bat guano mix before.....did they put anything else in their mix to supplement the other compounds that are lacking.

Kelp meal in your soil, or kelp extract will get you K. Jersey Greensand. Molasses with waterings is a good source too. There are good organic K supplements out there too like Earth juice Meta K, Fox Farm Big bloom, just have to look around.

I have tons of info on soilmixes in my journal, or you can ask me for help if needed.

Good Luck:ccc:

 

[kindphriend]

Excellent EM! Just what I was looking for! I´ll have to check out some of the products in the local grow shop.....now I know what i´m looking for! Have you ever done a guano mix and if so, what did you do? I´ll be going through your journal here shortly. Thanx again EM!

 

[DankCloset]

if you go with molasses, i'd look into beneficial bacteria as well, molases is excellent.

 

[DLtoker]

alright, iam going to explain this, and then iam going to see if i cant make a "guide or post" this is going to be about N-P-K.
if u dont know, u will now.

npk are the scientic abreviations for 3 compounds plants absolutely need to survive. first is nitrogen, second is potassium, third is phosphorus.

First off, no offense, but I stopped reading after that. Bananas give you Potassium. Potassium is K. Also, I had a plant croak on me due to a Ca lockout that was insane. WAY more into a plants nourishment than three elements.

I think I already told you this, but it is worth repeating. If anyone is new to growing and wants to go organic, CHECK OUT EMAN's JOURNAL. That is the closest thing MP has to an Organic Section at this point and it is very very thorough.

Don't forget Dolomite Lime for your micros like Ca and it also help stabilize pH.

 

[kindphriend]

This is question is directed to EMan, if anyone else would like to reply please do. So I have made my mix of soil with the guano. I put about 200 grams of guano for 50 liters of unfertilized mixture of peat moss, vermiculite, and spagnum peat. I haven´t had time to buy any lime or other components yet, but because time is a factor right now (due to height issues) I am thinking about transplanting tonight, letting them sit for about four/five days as I gradually change the light schedule until next friday when they will officially be on the 12/12 schedule. I love the idea of molasses and lime and organic bacteria compounds (Eman you are my idol and I hope one day to achieve the knowledge you have about these things along with breeding! Your journal is a ridiculous source of information....too much for a novice such as myself). I have several questions:
1. I watered on Friday soil is still damp, can I transplant with damp soil or will it be harmful for the roots....especially with the guano?
2. Is it possible to add these compounds (molasses, lime, jersey sand) to the soil say in a couple of weeks when I see they are settled and comfortable?
3. Can you teach me? Just kidding.....but I read somewhere in your journal that you have too many mentors....well now you have a pupil as well,
studying your journal.

Thank you for your help in advance, truely it means alot!

 

[Elephant Man]

This is question is directed to EMan, if anyone else would like to reply please do. So I have made my mix of soil with the guano. I put about 200 grams of guano for 50 liters of unfertilized mixture of peat moss, vermiculite, and spagnum peat. I haven´t had time to buy any lime or other components yet, but because time is a factor right now (due to height issues) I am thinking about transplanting tonight, letting them sit for about four/five days as I gradually change the light schedule until next friday when they will officially be on the 12/12 schedule. I love the idea of molasses and lime and organic bacteria compounds (Eman you are my idol and I hope one day to achieve the knowledge you have about these things along with breeding! Your journal is a ridiculous source of information....too much for a novice such as myself). I have several questions:
1. I watered on Friday soil is still damp, can I transplant with damp soil or will it be harmful for the roots....especially with the guano?
2. Is it possible to add these compounds (molasses, lime, jersey sand) to the soil say in a couple of weeks when I see they are settled and comfortable?
3. Can you teach me? Just kidding.....but I read somewhere in your journal that you have too many mentors....well now you have a pupil as well,
studying your journal.

Thank you for your help in advance, truely it means alot!

Wow...my freinds are too cool. DL, you too mang.:guitar:

What kind of guano was it? There are basically 3 kinds, high N, high P, and PSG (peruvian seabird guano). The PSG would actually be nearly a complete veg fert in a descent soil, high N or high P by themselves might cause problems. I know sometimes it is tough to find stuff, but see how many of these you can get:

dolomitic or oyster shell lime (Ca/Mg PH)
PSG and high P guano, or high N and high P guano (NPK, bacteria, traces)
earthworm casings (N, bacteria, traces)
alfalfa meal (NPK, bacteria, triacontinol, traces)
kelp meal (NPK, hormones, vitamins, traces)
molasses (NK, bacteria food)
azomite or rock phosphate, or epsom plus (Ca/Mg traces)

If you can't get a few of these, we can sub some stuff out. Many times you may have the perfect natural fertilizer right in your backyard, locally here I can get all the eucalyptus leaves I want. You may have alfalfa everywhere in your locale. Stinging nettles or comfrey?

As far as transplanting now, well....if you must. We can transplant her again I guess. It sounds to me since we are starting from scratch (bare components) and not a descent premix, we are gonna have to setup ph. Gonna need lime for that.

Check your local nursery, my hydro shop doesn't have any of this stuff.

Uggg, slightly stoned, hope I didn't forget anything major. My mix is actually getting simpler and simpler lately, and I have a cool new way for you guys to do your fermented teas too. Something really special planned for your guanos. I know 50 litres is about 12 gallons, can someone tell me how many grams in a tablespoon? Thanks, sorry, being lazy this Sunday.

Eman:ccc:

 

[kindphriend]

Wow...my freinds are too cool. DL, you too mang.:guitar:

What kind of guano was it? There are basically 3 kinds, high N, high P, and PSG (peruvian seabird guano). The PSG would actually be nearly a complete veg fert in a descent soil, high N or high P by themselves might cause problems. I know sometimes it is tough to find stuff, but see how many of these you can get:

dolomitic or oyster shell lime (Ca/Mg PH)
PSG and high P guano, or high N and high P guano (NPK, bacteria, traces)
earthworm casings (N, bacteria, traces)
alfalfa meal (NPK, bacteria, triacontinol, traces)
kelp meal (NPK, hormones, vitamins, traces)
molasses (NK, bacteria food)
azomite or rock phosphate, or epsom plus (Ca/Mg traces)

If you can't get a few of these, we can sub some stuff out. Many times you may have the perfect natural fertilizer right in your backyard, locally here I can get all the eucalyptus leaves I want. You may have alfalfa everywhere in your locale. Stinging nettles or comfrey?

As far as transplanting now, well....if you must. We can transplant her again I guess. It sounds to me since we are starting from scratch (bare components) and not a descent premix, we are gonna have to setup ph. Gonna need lime for that.

Check your local nursery, my hydro shop doesn't have any of this stuff.

Uggg, slightly stoned, hope I didn't forget anything major. My mix is actually getting simpler and simpler lately, and I have a cool new way for you guys to do your fermented teas too. Something really special planned for your guanos. I know 50 litres is about 12 gallons, can someone tell me how many grams in a tablespoon? Thanks, sorry, being lazy this Sunday.

Eman:ccc:

Thanx for the quick reply Eman. Like I said, you are a shining bright light of information for me and I GREATLY value your advice. Wish I could share the final result with you here on my terrace in Barcelona!:joint:

Anyways, here is the guano. Guanokalong-power: N=2%;P205=15%; K20=2%; S=0.2%; Ca/Mg=15%; mg/kg-> Cu=15, Zn=20,Cl=100. I am planning to wait on the transplant to hear your reply and suggestions for additives. Here in spain I can get a variety of dried herbs, as well as there are several grow shops here in Barça that have a selection of nutrients. If you feel that we need to add some Molasses, Worm Castings, or lime....please let me know as soon as possible. Again...thank you, I can´t thank you enough really!

 

[DankCloset]

when i posted that, all i was implying on was the 3 basic all plants need to survive, without one the plant wont happen. i didnt mean to say that, thats all u give the plant.

Edit: looks like i'll have to be more spacific.

 

[Elephant Man]

Ok brother K, hehe, lemme see. I know different countries handle agriculture differently. Does your peat or S moss say ph adjusted on it? Or is it like from a bail or something? Do they have perlite already mixed in? Like a seed starter mix? If not, you are gonna need some lime, 1 tablespoon per gallon if using tap water, 2 tablespoons if using flitered...or...one tablespoon and one teaspoon epsom plus, azomite. OR...you can use 1/4 oyster shell. That should handle Ca/Mg with everything else we add, might want to check ph though if your materials are 'raw'. Anything between 6.3 and 6.8 will work.

N: You need e casings...like 25% of total mix. We can mix you an alfalfa tea or comfrey or whatever later, but 2 tablespoons of any organic all purpose ferts will handle this too. Look for ones listing 'beneficial bacteria and fungi'. Try and stay under 10-10-10...mine is 5-5-5. I have another that is 5-8-4 for flower, and 3-4-3 for babies. Things like Alfalfa meal, cottonseed meal, high N guano, soybean meal, ground dried comfrey, all good, you can add 2 tablespoons of any of these as well, one tablespoon for the guano though, it is pretty potent (usually 10-12 N). I like a tablespoon of PSG, composted manure, or 2 tablespoons of all purpose dry ferts (per gallon) sprinked right into very bottom few inches of soil...manure will add moisture retention for hungry deep feeding roots.

P: Still with me? Flower transplant, or topdress, one tablespoon High P guano (the one you have is excellent) one tablespoon lime, 2 tablespoons all purpose ferts, 1/4 cup casings...I usually mix this with some new soil and put right on top, but my veg is short, and I don't transplant.

K: 2 tablespoons kelp meal per gallon, teaspoon molasses every feeding. A few late bloom boosters out there too are nice for deficiencies as well.

Macros are covered by our minerals (lime, guano, epsom), traces and vitamins are in kelp, alfalfa, guano, all over really. Bacteria everywhere too, in nearly every ingrediant.

Lemme take a little break and I will cover a tea or 2. I need to eat and smoke. Ask questions if you like.

Eman:ccc:

 

[DLtoker]

Eman, How much do they charge you for Kelp meal? I am getting charged just over a dollar a pound? Is that really cheap compared to out west?... Off topic a bit, sorry...

 

[kindphriend]

Ok brother K, hehe, lemme see. I know different countries handle agriculture differently. Does your peat or S moss say ph adjusted on it? Or is it like from a bail or something? Do they have perlite already mixed in? Like a seed starter mix? If not, you are gonna need some lime, 1 tablespoon per gallon if using tap water, 2 tablespoons if using flitered...or...one tablespoon and one teaspoon epsom plus, azomite. OR...you can use 1/4 oyster shell. That should handle Ca/Mg with everything else we add, might want to check ph though if your materials are 'raw'. Anything between 6.3 and 6.8 will work.

N: You need e casings...like 25% of total mix. We can mix you an alfalfa tea or comfrey or whatever later, but 2 tablespoons of any organic all purpose ferts will handle this too. Look for ones listing 'beneficial bacteria and fungi'. Try and stay under 10-10-10...mine is 5-5-5. I have another that is 5-8-4 for flower, and 3-4-3 for babies. Things like Alfalfa meal, cottonseed meal, high N guano, soybean meal, ground dried comfrey, all good, you can add 2 tablespoons of any of these as well, one tablespoon for the guano though, it is pretty potent (usually 10-12 N). I like a tablespoon of PSG, composted manure, or 2 tablespoons of all purpose dry ferts (per gallon) sprinked right into very bottom few inches of soil...manure will add moisture retention for hungry deep feeding roots.

P: Still with me? Flower transplant, or topdress, one tablespoon High P guano (the one you have is excellent) one tablespoon lime, 2 tablespoons all purpose ferts, 1/4 cup casings...I usually mix this with some new soil and put right on top, but my veg is short, and I don't transplant.

K: 2 tablespoons kelp meal per gallon, teaspoon molasses every feeding. A few late bloom boosters out there too are nice for deficiencies as well.

Macros are covered by our minerals (lime, guano, epsom), traces and vitamins are in kelp, alfalfa, guano, all over really. Bacteria everywhere too, in nearly every ingrediant.

Lemme take a little break and I will cover a tea or 2. I need to eat and smoke. Ask questions if you like.

Eman:ccc:

Okay, so I have been talking to some people here and seeing what kind of product I´ve got in the local growshop. This is what I´ve found: two products that I am sure you already know about. Tarantula and Piranha. Piranha is a beneficial fungi and tarantula is a beneficial bacteria. Also there is Voodoo juice which is with microbes, however it is not a mycorrhizal mixture I am planning to buy one of these within the next couple of weeks and add to my plants maybe after the first month of flowering. The problem is they are expensive as......you know. Also, I picked up some organic-B which is a mixture of B-1, B-2, B-3, B-5, B-6, B-7, and B-12 and also contains amino acids, lipids, peptides, and cytokinins.

My plan is this: Tonight transplant with the guano mix in the soil, I was not able ot find lime so my mix is going to be basic until I add some bacteria and fungus later. I will use a mix of the veg ferts and the B-complex for the first week or so. Then, after I see the plant really starting to take hold of the guano and I don´t see any problems, then I will add the Piranha and/or Tarantula juice. Also there is something called iguana juice and big bud juice, but I don´t know if that will be too much for the plants WITH the guano. I haven´t decided which to use or if I should just forget everything, make some guano tea and make a molasses mixture with some old fruit to feed the bacteria. Sooooooo much information. Regarding the ph adjustment, I checked the soil and right now it is at about 6.2 so I think it is okay. Anyways, I think the B complex can be used to raise the ph anyways and the organic veg ferts for the N. Let me know what you think Eman. Thanx again for the tutilage. *kindphriend*

 

[Elephant Man]

Okay, so I have been talking to some people here and seeing what kind of product I´ve got in the local growshop. This is what I´ve found: two products that I am sure you already know about. Tarantula and Piranha. Piranha is a beneficial fungi and tarantula is a beneficial bacteria. Also there is Voodoo juice which is with microbes, however it is not a mycorrhizal mixture I am planning to buy one of these within the next couple of weeks and add to my plants maybe after the first month of flowering. The problem is they are expensive as......you know. Also, I picked up some organic-B which is a mixture of B-1, B-2, B-3, B-5, B-6, B-7, and B-12 and also contains amino acids, lipids, peptides, and cytokinins.

My plan is this: Tonight transplant with the guano mix in the soil, I was not able ot find lime so my mix is going to be basic until I add some bacteria and fungus later. I will use a mix of the veg ferts and the B-complex for the first week or so. Then, after I see the plant really starting to take hold of the guano and I don´t see any problems, then I will add the Piranha and/or Tarantula juice. Also there is something called iguana juice and big bud juice, but I don´t know if that will be too much for the plants WITH the guano. I haven´t decided which to use or if I should just forget everything, make some guano tea and make a molasses mixture with some old fruit to feed the bacteria. Sooooooo much information. Regarding the ph adjustment, I checked the soil and right now it is at about 6.2 so I think it is okay. Anyways, I think the B complex can be used to raise the ph anyways and the organic veg ferts for the N. Let me know what you think Eman. Thanx again for the tutilage. *kindphriend*

Well....looks like you found Advanced Nutrients locally. I tell ya, if you can afford that stuff, go for it, you can't go wrong IMO. I would love to try the compost tea activator thing they have. I went overboard on innoculants too at one time...truth is, you don't really need all that stuff. Icing on the cake. Guano, kelp, casings, POM ferts, alfalfa, comfrey, all contain beneficial microbes. Organic B is okay with me too. You are on the right track for sure though, 6.2 isn't bad...what is your water like?

 

[DankCloset]

hey if your gonna go mycorrhizal, just go with fox farm light warrior. check it out, i like it alot.

edit: big bag, i dont remember how big, but 21 bucks or so.