Nute Study

[docfishwrinkle]

jman huge thanks once again.

 

[greener pastures]

great work jman wish u were my neighbor

 

[newgreenthumb]

I really appreciate you taking the time to share this with all of us. I have noticed better results with the Advance Nutrient program myself since switching from Technaflora brand to Espoma brand organics then finally to Advance. Rather pricey but worth every penny in my opinion.

 

[jmansweed]

Hey guys, thanks for all the interested. I was reading through my results section regarding Eartjuice and realized the pH section should be better explained. I did mentioned pH should be balanced before application but I think that was probably the wrong thing to say without fully explaining how I do things with EJ applications and pH balancing.

Firstly, applications of EJ are perfectly fine either "pre-mixing" right before applying or developing a microbial tea and applying. The pre-mixing will result in microbial life also - just not as quickly or effeciently. I have a room that's fed with naturally pH 7 well water - and another that uses non-filtered dechlorinated tap water. This is were much of the confusion is developed and many of us end up scratching our heads.

The well water mixes good and I rarely struggle developing a healthy tea. The pH rises predictably and I rarely even need to check it. The well is spring fed, it's ideal.

The tap is another story. Years ago, I made the mistake many Earth Juicers make and used a reverse osmosis filter on the plant water. Athlough this seems logical it removes some vital ingrediants such as calcium and magnesium for example. These componants alone are important to healthy microbiology in the medium. Without a filter unfortuneatly, many times this means our ppm and ec can rise without much warning. We kind of get stuck between a rock and a hard place. RO your water and the "hard water" loving EJ will simply not blend properly. Don't RO your water and suffer from salt build up and pH swings. Adding Mg and Ca to the RO water can be done but I've found those two items are not the only minerals in typical water that the solution is designed to blend well with.

When I "pre-mix" the well water or take the time to make a tea I add no pH balancing at all. I trust the solution will balance itself out. If things remain to low I'll add some mollasses as mentioned above. pH will start to climb after that.

The tap water always sits out for at least 24 hours and preferably has air bubbled through it to eliminate any chlorine. My "pre-mix" feedings get pH balanced the majority of veg feedings and for the first part of flowering only. Infact I pH balance less and less with each application in flowering. I essentially allow the sloution to be more acidic later in flowering. Frequently under later flowering conditions plants exudates can raise soil pH substaincially. The microbial life is typically so prolific at this point you can rely on it to control the pH swings sometimes created with tap water. My schedule calls for larger amounts of Molasses at the later stages that could also have an impact.

Making a tea with tap water - I dechlorinate in the same way. pH is controlled through additional applications of Molasses and only once in a blue moon, under severe conditions will I add any pH adjustment to the tea. I usually use EJ's pH adjusters.

During mid and late flowering it's very important, specifically using dechlorinated tap water to allow drain to waste with at least a 15% run-off off of solution. This will help incredibly by leaching any salt or mineral build up created from the water supply. Don't leach to early however, you want to give microbial life time to bind to your medium. I'll also mention adding Dolomite again - it's a good idea. I know I repeated a few details but I hope that cleared it up a little. Thanks

 

[gangalama]

:holysheep: WOW:holysheep: The only way this post could be better is to see the magnificent marijuana itself. :goodposting: very impressive and informative. A million thanks, may you grow forever

 

[maximummax]

Wow. Thanks for the info. I have been wanting to go organic for a while and have been doing some reading to try and make some sort of educated guess. Well you sir are my hero. Based on your findings I have decided to go with EJ on my next/current grow.

Thanks,
Max

 

[salsaraze]

thanks jman ive been always wondering about this,now i have the answers after only growing for a year and experimenting with many of the above nutrients i have been using varios ones which i seeem to find better than sticking with one kind salsa

 

[dr_kronic]

jmansweed, you are my hero!!!! THANK YOU!!!! this is an absolutely insane amount of careful work, documentation, and useful information.

 

[nvthis]

Jman, great work bro!:cool2:

Got a couple questions for you..

First, I currently employ super soil for my grow, but before that was an avid EJ user. I have quite a bit left and have not ruled out future EJ fed grows. That being said, how would you suggest I taylor your feed schedule to a ten, or even an 8 week grow?

Secondly, when using an all organic line up do you find the end flush making that big of a difference? And what is it flushing?

Thanks man!


EDIT: Ok, I have a third question.. EJ recommends NOT adding water to the nute bottle (grow) to loosen it up. I noticed you mentioned how thick it can be sometimes. So do you feel this is reasonable? (considering it most likely has some water added during it's original mix..) I have actually shook every bottle on the shelf to 'get a good one'!!

I get mine straight from the source in Chico Ca. Never seen it cheaper anywhere. Wish I had the motivation you do to do the math on it!

 

[jmansweed]

nvThis, thanks for reading. I assuming you mean a 10 week total grow - as in auto flowering or something similar? It could take me a little time to perfect that one. I would suggest sticking to a "curve" of nutreint applications regardless of the total veg and flowering time.

I'm working on a post about flushing currently so will only breifly discuss it. Lets consider our outdoor gardens for a minute. In rich, amended, organic soil we can grow multiple plants in the same soil. Even though these plants require different nutreint needs how can they thrive under similar soil conditions. The answer is simple - under organic conditions a plant chooses what and when to absorb nutreints through interaction with various forms of micobial life. With that theory in mind, and considering that Marijuana is an annuel we can conclude that "flushing" may be irrelavant. In saying all that, I condradict myself 10 days prior to every harvest and flush religously. Why? My plants taste and look better - it works for me. Under organic conditions, the science of plants tells us it's irrelavant but so many of us insist on it's benefits.

The EJ grow can be thick and hard to work with. I use a smaller bottle - like a bell jar or something - and add the appropriate measurement and then shake it with water. Adding water directly to the bottle will increase microbial activity and eventually decrease potency. Again, thanks for taking the time to read my thread.

 

[nvthis]

Right on Jman. Great info bro. Look forward to reading more!

 

[MikeOrganix]

Hey I am a lurker and old OG'er here. Just getting back into the forums... Been using Pure Blend Pro (bloom only) for about 6 years after moving away from GH. It is a one-part organic hydro (work in soil or you can use original Pure Blend if you are soil-only). It needs almost no ph adjustment and it is very tough to burn the ladies. The rich deep green color they take on is awesome. No lockout, no salt buildup (no salts)

 

[Mr.Wakenbake]

These posts would be much easier to read and understand if everything was broken up into paragraphs... my eyes are hurting.

I am sure others would appreciate it too.

I grow organically. I want to say that your post is informative and well thought out. I really really liked Metanaturals products myself.

Maybe you could do a test with these lines:

Pure Blend Pro (Botanicare)
Metanaturals
Miracle Grow( I know... I don't use the stuff myself)
Alaska brand grow and Bloom

I got stellar results with metanaturals myself.Nice post dood!

 

[420 Murder Ln Garberville]

Bravo jman! Good read and thanks for sharing

 

[stinkyelements]

Jman- awesome info and a'lot of effort greatly appreciated.

I have a question if you dont mind.............?
I dont have many resources for good nutes unless i can find a good place and I order quick, right now im in veg about 5 weeks almost and almost ready to flower but i want them healthier first, I only have neptunes harvest fish emulsion 2-4-1, now that isnt enough on its own to give them what they need throughout, or is it? what can i do to compensate, i hear i need more (N) and the second number (P) should be higher when i do flower. They look great other than some yellowing edges almost neon green and they havent been on a set feeding schedule yet. Any advise?

I also have jacks classic plant food 20-20-20 with micronutrients, that i have not used because im unsure of.........

Sorry to bother in such a great thread!!!!

 

[jmansweed]

Stinkyelements,

It dissapointing you can't get your hands on nutrients. You have allot of options however. Start a worm bin for example and consider making orgainc teas maybe? It's amazing how many growers go to great lengths to get their hands on solubles when in-fact, they have options right at home (with a little work and patience). "Living Organics" and/or "Bio-Dynamics" is a truly rewarding way to grow herb.

Considering my personal success with orgainc solubles however, I'm guilty myself of traveling for nutes. I drove to Cananda once, just to get my hands on Advanced Nutrients - years ago. (like a 15 hour drive one way) What is available in your area? Are some of the items in my Marine based nutrient test available? You mentioned NH 2-4-1. Are the other Neptunes Harvest products available? Since these tests, I've developed a fairly soild application schedule using these nutes.

I'm not familiar with Jacks Classic plant food. Discussion is the purpose here my freind. Your not bothering me or anyone else..............

 

[stinkyelements]

Haha thanks a lot jman, maybe i should look into making some teas i just have lack of experience with that and afraid. But def something i am into.

Nice drive huh wow!!

I have home depot and some nurserys around i havent found any other marine based nutes. There is a hydro shop i heard around the area i should check out just feel like im running out of time to give them some goods for now to keep em goin nice. I have studied your tests and schedule with them though and i like. I believe the jacks classic is chems anyway, wich scare me. Is it too late to get them on a schedule? If you would take the time check out my last thread recent pics.

Again thanks bro

 

[jmansweed]

Never to late to get the plants, and yourself on a solid schedule. Although it's important to properly apply nutrients through-out the vegitative cycle and build the foundation for flowering, you have plenty of time to pull things together. I'll check your pics out and get back to you with some more info.....thanks Stinky

 

[stinkyelements]

They have had some nutes during veg. good luck they've been through hell.

Thanks

 

[MikeOrganix]

Why bother with worm castings, other sea by-products, etc, that may be hot (burn ladies)?? Why bother mixing several organic sources?? This has all been done for you in Pure Blend Pro. Just mix 1-3 tsp/g and water. Works great for soil or soilless although there is Original Pure Blend for soil-only.

Someone posted about earth juice and being too thick in the bottle? This sounds very odd to me and I would switch to something that is more stable and more of a tea then a goop. IMHO PBP is my favorite nute.