Medical usage poll

[mal_crane]

You didn't even take the point of my argument, instead you saw it as nothing but an insult, which it wasn't. My point is that in no way possible can you say or even attempt to prove that 95% of people smoked pot before applying for a med card and there is certainly no way those 95% of people who did smoke, only manipulated the system to get there med cards. The majority of people who apply for medical usage of marijuana are people who it genuinely helps or could help.

 

[I'ma Joker Midnight Toker]

You didn't even take the point of my argument, instead you saw it as nothing but an insult, which it wasn't. My point is that in no way possible can you say or even attempt to prove that 95% of people smoked pot before applying for a med card and there is certainly no way those 95% of people who did smoke, only manipulated the system to get there med cards. The majority of people who apply for medical usage of marijuana are people who it genuinely helps or could help.

Dude, you NEVER made that a point in your arguement, am I suppose to read between the lines? Don't try to turn it around and say I saw it as an insult, I saw it as an erroneous statement and nothing more. I made a statement and stand behind it. You don't have to agree but you didn't make any reference to 95% (which I said was 'my' guess) of people smoked before med cards or manipulating the system....NONE...read your own posts. If you got something to say OK, but don't try to say you made a point and never did, it's black and white here for all to see. I've read some of your other posts and you seem to argue a lot with little or no basis except for the sake of causing distress, please do your homework or at least follow up with what you say, not what you may have wanted to say... peace out

"The majority of people who apply for medical usage of marijuana are people who it genuinely helps or could help."

I'll say this, this is absolutely wrong, this system is so abused, you need to take a closer look my friend before you just jump on some bandwagon, no insult intended, just common sense and street smarts. Many ask how they can qualify or ask what they need to say or do to get medical MJ with no problems whatsoever.
PS...You never did follow up with where you got your research and numbers from, just a question I have for you if you wouldn't mind answering.

 

[mal_crane]

And I saw what you said as an erroneous statement as well, using your 95% numbers that you yourself haven't looked up. I also made a statement and am standing behind it. It feels like I'm talking to one of those automated machines, everything I say is being completely ignored by the receptors in your brain and something completely irrelevant spews back at me in your posts dude. All I did was try to answer this threads question as best as I could. You came into the thread NOT answering the question but instead debating how many med card users should not be able to use.

So where are all these threads that I have been arguing in for no other sake but distress. Please send me links .... that is if you can actually find some hard evidence to back your words up ... as for my documentation sure thing I'll send you every bit of documentation I found before writing that and send it directly too you, but I'll be waiting to see documentation of your numbers as well. Show me links to where 95% of people are abusing the med card system ... Couldn't find anything? EXACTLY!

 

[mal_crane]

By the way, I believe there is a place for members to report undersirable posts, so if there is a problem with anything I said, feel free!

 

[I'ma Joker Midnight Toker]

And I saw what you said as an erroneous statement as well, using your 95% numbers that you yourself haven't looked up. I also made a statement and am standing behind it. It feels like I'm talking to one of those automated machines, everything I say is being completely ignored by the receptors in your brain and something completely irrelevant spews back at me in your posts dude. All I did was try to answer this threads question as best as I could. You came into the thread NOT answering the question but instead debating how many med card users should not be able to use.

So where are all these threads that I have been arguing in for no other sake but distress. Please send me links .... that is if you can actually find some hard evidence to back your words up ... as for my documentation sure thing I'll send you every bit of documentation I found before writing that and send it directly too you, but I'll be waiting to see documentation of your numbers as well. Show me links to where 95% of people are abusing the med card system ... Couldn't find anything? EXACTLY!

Dude , this is my last post, here's my original quote:

"I would be willing to guess that 95%+ of them smoked pot before they had med reasons."

I believe it is quite plain that I said it was a guess on my part, I did not say this was fact or a stat from anywhere...I like the way you turn it around and say send my documentation first, I asked you, you don't have it - fine. You have not answered one thing I've asked you and you tell me my brain receptors are ignoring your posts. I don't need documentation as I plainly expressed that it was of my personal opinion. If you're going to argue or debate something read what is said before your speedboat fingers get to typing
Here's some of your negativity...IMHO

Here's the way you set up arguemnets in your posts, just negative stuff, you probably don't even know you do it.

"All you guys are saying its alright to smoke near your plants?? You all must be ill-informed."

"It's a TV SHOW people, get real. I have seen survivorman before and the show seems ok. Now about people on here not being able to live in the wild, you are quite wrong."

"Especially when I could veg and flower your 15 plants under my cfl's for less than half the price of your 1000w and still get 3/4 of the yield."

You get on people about their spelling...
"Sorry Cole, I just have a pet peeve, do you mean the Dalai Lama?"



"Can't say I agree with you there buddy. I've grown quite a hefty number of plants from seed using 12/12. Using just 12/12 I can usually begin seeing sex around week 2-3."
"Oh don't worry you won't piss me off on this one. Apparently it's not as well known as chicken eggs coming from chickens. I'm being honest when I say I've been using this method for several years now when I don't have time for a full harvest, or if i'm low on space. Besides, that quote just helped my case unless I've read it wrong."
"Well if you're truly done with this conversation, so be it, I'm just trying to be helpful. I mean, unless I went blind in the past couple years then,"

Bad info...

Quote:
Originally Posted by mal_crane
Flo's and cfl's will grow bud just fine and can be used for both vegging and flowering. How many lumens per sq ft is what will make your buds more dense. Both flo's and cfl's would suit a closet grow much better than a HID or Hps. Be reasonable with what size light you are using in small places so that you don't start the apartment building on fire just because you picked a 600w hps to put in a little closet just because someone told you flo's aren't good for growing. Out of 20+ grows, I have used flo's and cfl's on almost all and I have grown some of the most dense bud I've seen. It's all in personal preference, trial and error, and what is most reasonable for the size grow you are looking for. No sense in buying some $500 light just to grow a couple plants when you could spend $100 dolalrs on cfl and flo supplies and get just as good of bud.


Hick: A 400 w/hps can be purchased for very close to that same $100 dollar bill, and is "both" more efficient and produces more grow power/lumens/PAR. Facts.. not "opinions"..


"I didn't say that HPS isn't good, I said it's his responsibility to not burn down the house with too much high powered lighting in a small area, but we now see that the area isn't small. Even with his larger area, I would still use cfl's or flo's, like I said it's just a personal preference. I've grown with an HPS and didn't like it, simple as that."

So I've shown you some quotes you asked for, I'm not going to read all your posts... answered your remark about the 95%. Please answer all of my previous questions you have ignored to date. Thanks.

PS These are the questions I asked long before you posed a question to me....brain receptor lock???

"What do you do to keep people off opiates I would like to know? What is your crusade and how do you do it? You brought it up. Where did you get your stats for 70 livers a day? Were they medical stats, drug abuse stats? If you are going to throw numbers, what is your research?"

 

[allgrownup]

i smoke weed to get high and to mellow me out so i can sleep. although since i found this great site i find myself stayin up later than ever so.........

personally....i am all about the high...i don't think i could ever stop smokin weed just based on the premise that i love to smoke weed. HOWEVa....if those little green pills were developed to pack a wholup i'm sure id givem a go.

I find myself wondering why no one is extracting and improving the weed now like they do with salvia? could you imagine WW times 10 :holysheep:

:bong::shocked:

 

[Carrie]

I think the true med people who benefit are cancer, glaucoma, and aids patients, most others have taken advantage of the system. That's OK, you got your MJ, I just hate the arrogance that some have acquired now that they are med users with their card to justify why they smoke and are not just "pot smokers". I'm a pot smoker, period....with a med release.

Just because you don't have the sickness or know someone that uses medicinal cannabis for other reasons then cancer(for the chemo),aids and glaucoma does not mean they have taken advantage of the system, becuase clearly it's a different system then the one I believe in and is part of.
The system is black or white, no room for personal belief. Like it or not, your put in a catogory, 1 and 2.
You have only named 1.5 of choronic or terminal illness's as catogory 1 applicants.
If you need to know some information please ask but don't pass judgement when you clearly just don't know how cannabis is shown to be beneficial to each individual.
I'm so upset about this and need to go blaze to calm down.

 

[ms4ms]

this is a touchy subject and i didn't even vote. I stopped smoking pot in 1980 when I joined the Marines.I got sick in 1998 officially with what has turned out to be chronic progressive ms, severe spasticity, and a host of ailments. My wife reintroduced me to smoking in roughly 2004(she does not smoke) or so. If you throw up from pain then you have pain. It took me a while to figure out it is the "high" that gives me relief,instantly. Sometimes, not often pot can make problems for me condition wise. Fine line as I have morphine alacarte which I take and it helps also,jjust not as much or as fast as a couple of bowls. I hate taking pills and I am at 15 a day.

 

[Carrie]

Thank-you so much ms4ms, you made me feel better and not alone. Besides being a medicinal user and activist, I have relapsing-remitting ms so I'm sure you understand why this thread makes me upset.

 

[Hick]

Effen, I like a guy who can at least admit to his limitations. If you know you will abuse pain killers, and have some instability and pot works for you...great. I never said it doesn't help or please people, it's just that some of the med users make it to be more than it is for them, and hence get a med card. Again, that's OK, my point is the born again arrogant ones that hide behind that med card that irritate me, they put themselves above the every day pot smoker who does it for enjoyment yet they do it cause they "have to". I love pot, smoke it, and most likely always will. Thanks for being honest dude.

"Arrogance" seems to be contagious..
The majority of your last post is absolutely irrelevant to the subject at hand, and could be interpretted as getting pretty close to a "personal" attack.
I don't see you pulling up "numbers/statistics", nothing more than your biased opinion.
Seems many in the medical field, yes, "Doctors", professionals in the field, don't agree with your diagnosis of "who"' it benefits and "who" it doesn't. Do you have some form of degree that makes you an authority, and qualified to dispute their findings?..

I'll agree that the system is abused, not unlike the SS system, welfare, unemployment, VA, ect. ec. ect. That doesn't mean it isn't a valid program.
"I" personally believe it should be decriminalized for medical and/or recreational use. But a medical provision is definately a step in the right direction IMO.
This "poll" came about in the hopes of stirring up an arguement..It was posted as a response to "we" here at MarPassion, being about "personal" grows, rather than "commercial" op's. ..about providing information for folks to supply themselves and eliminate the "black market" and street corner drug dealers.
I see it has served it's purpose. Dissention among the peacefull potheads..
I wish everyone who wants to, to be able to provide for themselves. Recreational or medical.
What concerns me is the "black eye" that commercial growers give to those of us who do grow for personal use.

 

[mal_crane]

Carrie and MS4MS, I am sorry to hear about your MS. My mother was diagnosed with severe MS. She is constantly in pain but nothing I say or do can convince her to try using marijuana as she did in her youth.

Hick, thank you coming into this discussion.

By the way Joker Midnight Toker, after having had to read through your ridiculous PM's and posts of hatred and ignorance towards me and the topic at hand, here are all the sources you were claiming were a "bunch of b-s because i'm talking out of my a** not using sources".

“An estimated 48.7 million people have used prescription drugs for non-medical reasons – almost twenty percent of the population.” (Source: National Institute on Drug Abuse)

“Opiate abuse usually starts with a person simply following a doctor’s orders. But for some people, drug use turns to drug abuse without them being aware of it happening. Addiction to opiates can occur in a matter of days and it can happen to anyone.” (Source: Meditox)

“Opiates can cause many side-effects including depressed activity of the central nervous system, reduced pain, induced sleep, over-sedation, nausea, vomiting, constipation, addiction, overdose, and death.” (Source: Meditox and NIDA)

“FDA approved opiates have surpassed cocaine and heroin at the #1 drug problem in America.” (Source: Modern Psychiatry)

“Acetaminophen in prescription opiates causes several hundred deaths per year due to overdose in the liver.” (Source: NIDA)

“In 234 comparisons in double-blind studies against non-narcotic pain treatments covering tens of thousands of patients, the track record for opiates by is 7 wins, 171 losses, and 58 ties.” (Source: Modern Psychiatry)

“1014 Oxycontin overdose deaths occurred in 23 states from August, 1999 to January, 2002. Hydrocodone related deaths were 592 in 2001 and 618 in 2002. From 1998 to 2002, Tramadol was involved in 382 deaths.” (Source: DAWN [The Drug Abuse Warning System])

“King County, Washington reported a 40% increase in prescribed opiate deaths in 2004 to 118 from 28.” (Source: Modern Psychiatry)

“In 2004, there were over 900 prescribed opiate-related deaths in NYC alone.” (Source: Modern Psychiatry)

“Most prescription drug abusers were first hooked by physicians. In a recent survey, 84% of opiate abusers stated that they had legitimately been given a prescription for opiates for pain at some point from a physician. Of these 84%, most (91%) had since purchased prescription opiates from a street dealer while 80% had altered the delivery system of the drug (examples: snorting, chewing or intravenous administration).” (Source: Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Cornell University)

“Research shows that there are no significant differences in pain relief between non-opiates alone and non-opiates plus opiates for moderate pain.” (Source: World Health Organization)

“One DB study showed that even acetaminophen administered alone improved pain control in patients already on high doses of opiates.” (Source: University of Sydney)

“Acetaminophen in prescribed opiates can cause overdose at relatively low doses and causes liver damage and/or failure.” (Source: Dartmouth University)

 

[ezdavedawg]

I like to smoke it!!!

 

[Thorn]

gees people are tetchy on this site!

anyway i just wanted to know where widowmaker was? he sent me a message saying hi so i replied but he has set it not to accept PMs ??? i'm confused. Anyone know anything?

 

[widowmaker]

One time I ate to much weed and I got so sick I quit smoking for like half a year. so I would pass on ingestion of thc.

 

[THE_DUDE]

Isnt smoking the whole point?

 

[THE_DUDE]

Great thread

 

[GreenMan74]

I can honestly say my first experiences of MJ were medicinal. I was in my early 20's and had been dealing with strong suicidal depressions for many years, interspersed with weeks of pure mania. MJ leveled that out, and additionally, has a strong spiritual side to it as well if you're in that kind of headspace.
Now my mental health is considerably better, and I consider myself a recreational stoner. But when taking a long break from MJ, those ups and downs resurface, particularly when I wasn't growing and had no contacts. That stuff is no **.
I agree though with the sentiment that the medical argument is being diluted by the recreational argument, interspersing with it. This plant has been used medicinally throughout human history, excepting the modern age. The case for its medicinal properties is very strong. Put it this way - were it not for the pschoactive qualities, there wouldn't even be a debate as to the medicinal qualities.
So the real heart of it has nothing to do with medical marijuana. The whole issue is around "operating your brain" as Dr. Leary put it.
What a wonderful multifaceted Goddess this plant is. Fiber, fuel, medicine, ganja.

 

[NorCalHal]

Wow, great thread.

Not to be the devils advocate, but I have to agree in part with Joker. It is my opinon that the majority of card holders here in California is for the sake of having some sort of protection from the Police rather then a dire need for pot to evliviate an illness. I see it every day, all day.

Sure, there are folks that started using pot after it became "medical", and use it to "fight a pain issue" or a number of other reasons. But really, we can ALL say that weed helps us in some way, otherwise none of us would smoke it.

What frustrates me is some of the advocates shoving propaganda at folks. Trying to convince folks that Medical is the ONLY reason pot should be decriminalized. The pure and simple fact that millions of americans smoke pot should be cause enough for the goverment to relax penelties. Folks are getting locked up for small, personal grows and finished product. Should they be locked up because they don't have an illness defined by law to be recommended by a doctor that they can have pot? Hell no.

Bottom line, MMJ is an avenue to full decrimilazation. This was the first step since it became a Class B substance that states have relaxed their veiws on it.

Carrie, this question is for you, If I do not have an illness you beleive MMJ would help, in fact if I am as healthy as a horse, would it be ok for me to grow my own herb and consume it in my own home? Or should it only be legal for Ill folks? Not trying to be a jerk, just want your opionon.

What if they made it legal for ONLY Cancer and AIDS patients? Folks would be up in arms. Point is, anyone of us can find a reason to smoke. It is just the veiw of waht an individual perceves as "a reason" to get a card. Because a girl gets it because of menstral cramps, does it make her not worthy?

IMHO, here it is, the argument here is what folks see as illnesses that MMJ can help. If you ask guy "a" he will say only aids and cancer, you ask guy "b" he could say any type of pain.
I say, if you like it and it helps you out in anyway, go for it. As I said before, we can all find a reason we smoke pot. State Goverments gave alittle when passing the MMJ laws. Folks who have smoked for years of course ar going to take advantage and protect themselves. Just as if the Goverment said if you have high bllod pressure, you can legaly not be cited for speeding violations. Even folks who don't really speed would sign up for the sake that one day they may get pulled over. I hope you understand what I am tryin' to say.

So I firmly beleive that the majority of folks get thier MMJ recommendation for law enforcment protection rather then a medical treatment. Plain and simple.


Don't get me wrong here, I am not anti MMJ, not at all.

 

[ms4ms]

great post hal. this of course is very touchy and a little personal. First, I wouldn't be smoking if I didn't get sick in 1998. I was a smoker and inhaled in the 70's. Got the white picket fence 2 kids and way to many grandkids. I actually was against people smoking to just get "high" then I realized that is very hipocritical. It is the high that gives me the relief now and it was the high I chased in the 70's. My wife is a nervous wreck that my little grow will cause big problems but she see's the help it gives me. She thinks it should be decriminalized period and she does NOT smoke for employment reasons. If smoking just to get high ruins your life or you can't handle life then you could have a problem with mj just like any drug or alcohol

 

[NorCalHal]

Thanks ms4ms. I hope that I don't offend Carrie. I'm just curious if she is down for the whole program, or just the MMJ side. It should go hand in hand.