making feminized seeds

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my growing skills are nowhere near the stage of breeding or making femenized seeds but it interests me so here is an article from ICMAG.com on STS Breeding. i cant find the exact thread but when i do ill post it.

enjoy



STS-based reversals and feminized breeding

Terminology for STS breeding:
STS: Silver thiosulfate, a salt compound used in photography. In plants, silver interferes with, or locks out, copper, which is a necessary micronutrient. Making copper unavilable inteferes with ethylene signaling, and reduces expression of traits that are dependent on high levels of ethylene, such as female sex expression and fruit ripening.
Copper: a micronutrient that is necessary to assist certain enzymes in their function. Copper can become toxic at low levels, but a few parts per billion is adequate for plants to express their genetic potential. Because copper is needed at such low levels, it does not take much silver to overwhelm the available copper load and exert its effect.
Ethylene: One of the 5 plant hormones. The levels and ratios of these 5 hormones has a huge impact on the shape, strucutre, aroma, flavor, flowering time, and disease resistance of the plant. Hormones are the chemical messengers that allow DNA to 'talk' to plant tissues and determine the phenotype. Ethylene is primarily involved in flowering, sex determination, fruit ripening, and sensescence (rot). Ethylene is a simple organic molecule, C2 H4, which can also be represented as H2C=CH2.
In cannabis, female plants will produce male flowers if not enough ethylene is present, or if too much gibberellic acid is present. The intersex condition is due to a combination of genetic and environemental factors. Some plants will not turn male under the most extreme stress, and some plants, especially stretchy tropical sativas, will turn with no stress at all. It is my belief that the stress of severe inbreeding, compounded over several generations, is responsible for the majority of hermaphrodites in the drug cannabis gene pool (DCG) today.
Reversal: Treating a female plant with STS in order to collect viable female pollen.
Selfing: Applying female pollen to the female from which it was collected. Example : selecting a particular Willie Nelson cutting, reversing it, and putting the pollen back on another clone of the same plant. Applying that pollen to a different Willie cutting, or to another strain altogether, is not selfing.
F0: The parents selected to start a breeding program. Often referred to as P1 and P2, but this is incorrect.
F1: the first cross between two unrelated parents. The F stands for filial, and refers to the fact that all F1 progeny of the same cross are full brothers and sisters to one another.
S1: The first selfed generation. Selfing an S1 produces an S2, etc. Anecdotal evidence from Sam_Skunkman indicates that continued selfing to the S3 and S4 produces plants so weak that they must be handled very carefully, “like kittens” in his words.
R1's (aka Reversed F1's): When feminized pollen is used to pollinate a different female than the pollen donor. R1's will tend to act like a tradional male x female cross, only all female, while S1's appear to have some different properties that are not yet fully understood. Early reports indicatee that S1's are more consistent than R1's on average, but there are many exceptions, and more research is needed.
BC1: The first backcross generation, ie when an F1 or R1 progeny is crossed back to an F0 parent. Backcrossing can increase the influence of either parent, but continued backcrossing is too much inbreeding, according to both DJ Short and Rezdog, and should be used rarely if at all. One or two backcrosses followed by full-sib mating has beena successful strategy for many breeders, including the creator of Northern Lights.
These terms can be combined for shortand pedigrees. A second backross, followed by three generations of sib-mating, may be represented as a BC2-F3 generation.
Intersex: A condition in which a plant (or animal) displays functional sex organs of both genders. Easier to type than hermaphroditic. My belief is that almost all hermies are genetic females that have weaknesses in their ethylene signaling pathway, which makes them very susceptible to environmental stress.
Stress: Any environmental factor that causes a response by the plant. Stresses can be biotic or abiotic. Biotic stresses include insects, fungi, viruses, predators, and CAMP. Abiotic stresses include drought, poor soil conditions, extreme wind or humidity, or hurricanes or flooding. Both types of stresses can have large effects on phenotype, including induction of intersex phenos.
Hybrid Fertility: The degree to which any two unrelated plants can set seed. For example, crossing an Afghani to a Turk may produce 95% viable seed, whild crossing Durban to Mongolian Indica might only produce 40% viable seed. This is usually a measure of the genetic distance between the parents. The fertility of self-pollinations is unknown but could give the breeder alot of information about the breeding value of the plant in question. A plant that has a desirable phentoype, but is not very self-fertile, is likely very homozygous and will tend to produce consistent offspring.
Micropropagation: Taking very small clones and rooting them in test tubes containing a heat-sterilized nutrient mixture in a agar (gelatin) base. This allows for aseptic (almost sterile) conditioins and precise application of phytochemicals such as STS, auxin, or cytokinin.
 
leafminer said:
Useful. I am at the BC2-S1 stage at the moment.

its a shame i had to go back through the article to see what BC2-S1 was :D.

Here is another thread from icmag.
from Rez dog, from Reservior seeds:

Silverthiosulfate Prep 101
Preparation of STS:

First, a stock solution is made. It consists of two parts (A and B) that are initially mixed separately, then blended together. Part A is ALWAYS mixed into part B while stirring rapidly. Use distilled water; tap water may cause precipitates to form.

Wear gloves while mixing and using these chemicals, and mix and use in a properly ventilated area. A mask will prevent the breathing of any dust, which is caustic. STS is colorless and odorless, and poses minimal health risks if used as described here. (See material safety data sheet links below). Note that silver nitrate and STS can cause brown stains upon drying, so spray over newspaper and avoid spilling.

Part A: .5 gram silver nitrate stirred into 500ml distilled water
Part B: 2.5 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 500ml distilled water

The silver nitrate dissolves within 15 seconds. The sodium thiosulfate takes 30-45 seconds to dissolve.

The silver nitrate solution (A) is then mixed into the sodium thiosulfate solution (B) while stirring rapidly. The resulting blend is stock silver thiosulfate solution (STS).

This stock solution is then diluted at a ratio of 1:9 to make a working solution. For example, 100ml of stock STS is added to 900ml of distilled water. This is then sprayed on select female plants.

Both the stock STS and the working solution should be refrigerated after use, as well as the powdered chemicals, to avoid activity loss.

The adjusted formula is as follows:

Part A: .7 gram silver nitrate stirred into 40ml distilled water
Part B: 2.6 grams sodium thiosulfate (anhydrous) stirred into 160 ml distilled water

Next, slowly add the silver nitrate solution to the sodium thiosulfate solution while stirring. This combination is then added to 800 ml of distilled water to equal 1 liter. This is your final stock solution. It is diluted 1:9 with more distilled water to make your final working solution, which then gets sprayed on your target plant.

Either formula will work great, so don't sweat it too much. But do that second spraying at the end of week 2... seems to be the key for getting pollen from the more difficult strains.


Application:

The STS working solution is sprayed on select female plants until runoff. Do the spraying over newspaper in a separate area from the flower room. You probably won't smell anything, but ventilate anyway. You now have what I call a "F>M plant"; a female plant that will produce male flowers.

After the F>M plant dries move it into 12/12 immediately. This is usually done three to four weeks prior to the date that the target (to be pollinated) plants will be ready to pollinate. Response times may vary slightly depending upon the strain. More specific times can be determined by trial with your own individual strains. In my trials it took 26 days for the first pollen. 30-35 days seems optimum for planning purposes.

So, assuming that a target plant needs 3-4 weeks to produce fully mature seeds, a strain that takes 8 weeks to mature should be moved into flower at about the same time as the female>male plant. A target plant that finishes flowering in 6 weeks needs to be moved into flower later (10 days or so) so that it doesn't finish before the seeds can fully mature.

A seeded individual branch can be left to mature on a plant for a bit longer, while harvesting the other seedless buds if they finish first. Just leave enough leaves on for the plant for it to stay healthy.

Effects:

Within days I noticed a yellowing of the leaves on the F>M plants. This effect persisted for two weeks or so; after this they became green again, except for a few of the larger fans. The plants otherwise seemed healthy. No burning was observed. Growth stopped dead for the first ten days, and then resumed slowly. No stretch was ever seen. After two weeks the F>M plants were obviously forming male flower clusters. Not just a few clusters of balls, but complete male flower tops. One plant still formed some pistillate flowers, but overall it was predominantly male.

It is strange indeed to see an old girlfriend that you know like the back of your hand go through a sex change. I'll admit that things were awkward between us at first.

When the F>M plants look like they may soon open and release pollen, ( 3-1/2 to 4 weeks) move them from the main flower room into another unventilated room or closet with lighting on a 12/12 timer. Don't worry too much about watts per square foot; it will only be temporary.

When the pollen flies, move your target plants into the closet and pollinate.

A more controlled approach is to isolate the F>M plants in a third remote closet (no light is necessary in this one, as they are releasing pollen now and are nearly finished anyway). In this remote other closet the pollen is very carefully collected in a plastic produce bag or newspaper sleeve and then brought back to the lighted closet, where the target plants are now located. If this is done, be careful to not mix pollen types by letting the F>Ms dust each other. Avoid movement, or use yet another closet.

Take special care to not let pollen gather on the outside of this bag- a static charge is sometimes present. Drop small open clusters of blooms inside and then close the bag at the mouth and shake. Important: next, step outside and slowly release the excess air from the bag, collapsing it completely, so that pollen doesn't get released accidently. Point downwind; don't let it get on your hands or clothes.

This collapsed pollinated bag is now very carefully slipped over only one branch and is then tied off tightly at the mouth around the branch stem with a twist tie or tape, sealing the pollen inside. Let the bag inflate slightly with air again before sealing it off, so the branch can breathe. This technique keeps the entire plant from seeding. Agitate the bag a bit after tying it off to distribute the pollen. Don't forget to label the branch so you know which seeds are which. Other branches on this same plant can be hit with different pollen sources.

If no lighted closet is available, the plant can be moved back into the main room, but- be very careful: pollen is sneaky. After 4-5 days, the bag is gently removed and the plant completes it's flowering cycle.

Yet another method has worked well for me. I position the target plants in a non-ventilated lighted closet, and then I collect pollen on a piece of mirror or glass. This is then carefully applied to the pistils of one pre-labeled branch by using a very fine watercolor paintbrush. Care is taken to not agitate the branch or the pollen. No sneezing. The plant needs to be in place first; moving it after pollination can shake pollen free and blow this technique.

Regardless of technique, at completion you will have feminized seeds. Let them dry for 2-4 weeks.

About the chemicals:

Silver nitrate is a white crystalline light-sensitive chemical that is commonly used in photography. It is also used in babies' eyes at birth to prevent blindness. It can cause mild skin irritation, and it stains brown. Avoid breathing. I didn't notice any smell or fumes, but ventilation is recommended. Be sure to wash the spray bottle well before you use it elsewhere; better yet: devote a bottle to STS use. A half gram is a surprisingly small amount; it would fit inside a gel capsule.


always learning
 
slowmo77 said:
hermie plants breed hermie plants. i wouldn't advise trying to make fem seeds. the hermie trait is one you don't want to reproduce. do some reading on the subject and you'll get a better understanding on this subject. jmo

You might try reading about sativa and hermies... It's not always a fem'd plant that will herm (which may be associated hormones and genetics). Also you have to consider the kayotype.

Female -
18 Autosomes and X X Sex Chromosomes

Female Intersex
18 Autosomes and x x (recessive)
or
18 Autosomes and x X (rec, dom)

Super Male -
18 autosomes and Y Y Sex Chromosomes
or
18 Autosomes and y Y (rec, dom) Sex Chromosomes
or
18 Autosomes and x y (recessive) Sex Chromosomes

Male -
18 Autosomes and X Y Sex Chromosomes
or
18 Autosomes and x y (recessive) Sex Chromosomes

Male Intersex -
18 Autosomes and y y (recessive)
or
18 Autosomes and X y (Dom, Rec)


If there are MADC genes you will have Male Associated DNA in you Cannabis (MADC), which I believe would be on the Y and y chromosomes only.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=45624
 
I have made fem seeds from light stress, and the seeds I grew from the hermi didnt have hermi traits. I just waited till the plants were in about the 4th week of flowering, and killed the lights for 3 solid days. No light at all! I checked them after 3 days and I found a male pod here and there. basicly what you are doing is making the plant think its life is comming to an end, and therefore it pollinates itsself to produce seeds so it can carry on next year.
 
thats too bad....I had a whole strain that I had for 10+ yrs ruined because my buddy did the exact same thing you did...stressed out a perfectly good plant that I had never seen a hermi in the 10 +yrs of growing to get so called "fem seeds" after he did that, the seeds produced 30%+ hermi's.... grow out somemore seeds I think you probably just got lucky... keep growing them, you will get hermis! Oh yeah and you will get straight up males out of those Supposed fem seeds...so that didn't work either...lol... a waste of good genetics is all it is! Good Luck in you endevour.
 
Kushcrosser said:
I have made fem seeds from light stress, and the seeds I grew from the hermi didnt have hermi traits. I just waited till the plants were in about the 4th week of flowering, and killed the lights for 3 solid days. No light at all! I checked them after 3 days and I found a male pod here and there. basicly what you are doing is making the plant think its life is comming to an end, and therefore it pollinates itsself to produce seeds so it can carry on next year.


"hermies procreate hermies" THAT is a "FACT"...
"basicaly what you are doing".. is selecting the hermie characteristic for future propagation. Without previously 'testing' and selecting for true female traits, you failed to even follow thhe basic Rodelization method properly.
Ametuers/pollen chuckers have no business "breeding" femminised seeds, when they fail to understand just how important "selection" truely is.
 
Kushcrosser said:
I have made fem seeds from light stress, and the seeds I grew from the hermi didnt have hermi traits. I just waited till the plants were in about the 4th week of flowering, and killed the lights for 3 solid days. No light at all! I checked them after 3 days and I found a male pod here and there. basicly what you are doing is making the plant think its life is comming to an end, and therefore it pollinates itsself to produce seeds so it can carry on next year.

You have NOT made fem seeds--you have made hermie seeds. Basically what you are doing is perpetrating an undesireable genetic trait in marijuana. IMO, this is part of why we are seeing such a proliferation of hermies.
 
I see what you are saying, but why did all 5 of the seeds I started turn out to be fem, with no hermi traits?
 
They had hermi traits all femed seeds have a hermi trait 1 of their parent plants was a forced female.
 

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