Leaves are Dying Fast. Crusty Brown Spots

[umbra]

Some nutes like GH 3 part require that certain nutes be used first before mixing the others. The micro is first then either the grow or bloom. The reason for this is you are building a chemical chain that starts with a primer. In some ways organics are the same. 1 product is not complete for what the plant needs, but they need to be together.
Perhaps a better analogy, rice is a protein, but not a complete protein it only has some of the amino acids, but not all of them. Beans are a complimentary protein, also not all the amino. Separately they are 2 sources of incomplete proteins, but together they combine to make a complete protein with all the amino acids necessary.
I hope this makes sense to you.

 

[Hackerman]

Yeah, I understand. I was saying the same thing in my sarcasm about eating.

Once we get this nute thing straight, maybe you guys cab help me dial in the rest.

One thing I always do is trim bottom branches and transplant right before 12/12.

Not to get off topic but I am getting ready to do that soon and I'm wondering of that is wrong, too.

My standard MO is to trim up the bottoms and transplant from #1 pots to #3 pots and then flip 12/12.

One thing I notice is that root growth is minimal during flowering so the roots never really grow into the space.

I have often thought about transplanting a few weeks before flip but I don't have room to do that (albeit, I could make room if I have to).

Getting more like I'm going to owe you a 6-pack rather than buying you a beer. LOL

TA

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I always like to do any transplanting or serious trimming a week or two before I flip the lights. Both of these are things that can cause shock and cause growth to slow while they recover. I guess that I have always felt that flowering would be/could be delayed while they are recovering from the transplant and/or trim. However, in real life, I don't really know if it matters. This is just the way I have done it.

I'm seriously going to work on you to try an organic grow next run.

 

[Hackerman]

I guess I don't understand this 'organic' thing.

I'm using dirt. That's organic.

The nutes I use are organic (except the Tiger).

What's different about 'organic' gardening.

I have read about dirt recipes with worm castings and all. So, instead of buying Fox Farms dirt, I make the same thing.

And, tea for food. vs using Fox Farms Big Bloom.

Other than cost vs hassle (which , I'll take cost any day) and the Tiger....

We can talk about it if it's not too frustrating for you. Or, pop me a link or 2 and I'll check it out.

 

[umbra]

My 2 cents ... soil and FF nutes may not be 100% organic in the strictest of definitions, simply because some of their nutes are not 100% organic. It works though, and fairly well. Organics isn't just about using an amended soil, it's about the micro organisms and creating a living soil. Organic teas are not about the nutrients in the tea as much as the micro organisms they attract and feed. With the GH 3 part, it is a salt based fertilizer that has all the nutrients in a chelated form. Organic nutes are not found in nature in a chelated form and plants can not absorb them directly. They need mycorrhizal fungi to convert the raw organic nutes into a chelated form that the plant can absorb. Trichoderma fungi prevent parasites and bad micro organisms. Neither of these are found in organic teas, however. I've tried to point you in the right direction. I think you are more than capable of using a computer and doing a search to further your knowledge base. My list of links for you to start.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mycorrhiza

https://www.bing.com/search?q=trich...KuX39w6NZQXE8S8Z9gJuWwPEMhQWqk317Fzcp&PC=DCTS

https://www.youtube.com/user/TrueLivingOrganics

https://permaculturenews.org/2016/01/19/what-are-effective-microorganisms/

microbeorganics.com

https://www.rodalesorganiclife.com/garden/what-compost-tea

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

It is not frustrating for me at all, but I have to say that I have only been at this organic thing several years, so my knowledge is limited. What's different about organic gardening? Basically, you build the soil, the soil feeds the plants. Organics is something that could take decades to master. So, I do rely on others who have made it a vocation to help me. Rosebud and duck are both quite knowledgeable and I reread the reference books I have. My favorite is "True Living Organics" by The Rev.


I'm not sure how much of this I am going to be able to explain. But first "dirt" is not necessarily organic--the vast majority of it isn't. And I do believe that the only nute you are using that is organic is the Big Bloom. Further, soup feeding organic nutrients is not the same as building a good organic soil with great microbe herds in it. There is more to it than just using nutrients that say "Organic" on the label. You are trying to get away from heavily chelated products and build life in your soil mixture that will break down the elements and compounds so the plant can use them. There is a big difference between using say AN's Iguana Juice (which is organic) and making your own soil mixture (which will have far more goodies than any prepared soil) and feeding with teas. If you think you might be interested, I think that "True Living Organics" is a great read. It is not too technical and has a lot of recipes that I like. I have it on my Kindle, but if it was a real book, it would be dog-eared and falling apart...I have reread it so many times. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MQF6SDZ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

There is also the bonus of not having to continually check your pH. After running hydro for so many years, it was wonderful to not have to be continually worried about pH. I use a super soil I make up..and it is so much more than Fox Farm or any pre-prepared soil. I have read a lot of supersoil recipes, but still like NV's best and that is what I use. Every week or 10 days (or longer if life intervened), I would brew up a tea and feed them that. I also did a foliar feeding with the tea as it helps keep bugs away. Outside, they got watered everyday, I had a soaker system set up. Indoors it is usually every other day. The older I get the more I like hassle-free, too.

 

[umbra]

My trim technique has changed over time. In Cali I have seen commercial growers seriously defoliate plants before flowering, with incredible results. I have starting using leds and they require a heavy trimming for light to penetrate below the canopy. I'll take some pix of my trees in flower.

 

[Hackerman]

I have been doing some reading on the organic thing and I must admit, it's very interesting. I understand, now, why umbra says, feed the soil, not the plant.

I have been reading mostly the tech stuff about how it all works. I still have to read up on what's involved with preparing and maintaining. I'll be back to ask questions soon enough.

Meanwhile, the plants are not really showing any difference yet. I have been following the feeding / plain pH'd water schedule. We'll see.

This is week 6. In 2 weeks I am going to harvest the bottom branches. I think this is still too early so I don't want to snag the main cola yet but I do want some samples to test just in case I find the CBD content is, indeed higher at early harvest.

The Lemon OG is still only 5 weeks in and probably has another 5.

In spite of the fact that these Continuum are so sick, the buds are still frosting up nicely. And, the colas are huge. Going to be a decent yield if I can keep them going.

View attachment aftertrim-3.jpg

 

[Hackerman]

Not much change in the flower room. The CBD plants look about the same. Maybe a little worse.

The Lemon OG are starting to show the same signs on their large leaves.

Odd thing is, it's happening to the OG plants closest to the CBD plants and not much at all to the plants opposite. Almost like it's an infestation rather than a deficiency.

OG are going into week 6 (one week behind the CBD.)

Not the greatest crop I've ever done.

 

[Hackerman]

Well, here's something to ponder.

If you remember talking about it before, I had the clones from these mothers split up into 3 rooms. One was the new LED, one was the 8 bulb T5 and the other was my regular 1000w HPS.

Well, I harvested the Med Tree mothers and the Lemon OG that were in the main room and yesterday I swapped all the plants around.

Here is what's weird. The new MedTree clones that were in the main room with the 1000w HPS are starting to get that same necrosis that the mothers had.

The T5 plants don't have it and the LED plants don't have it. The only 3 plants out of about 30 that have it are the ones that are under the HPS.

Truth is, the nicest, healthiest plants were under the T5.

I have them all under the LED and HPS now so we'll see what happens.

All the plants are the same age from the same mothers and were in the same kind of pots with the same dirt, in the same temp and humidity, eating the same diet, with the, pretty much, exact same environment and living conditions.

I think I know why it's happening like this but I am open to hearing what others might think.

 

[Hushpuppy]

Hack, I get that some on my stuff that is flowered under HPS. But it is usually on the highest leaves that sit directly under the light. Outside of that necrosis that forms on those highest leaves, the plants remain healthy and blooming. I have seen where if your pH swings too much, and/or to quickly, the plants will stress some and show similar signs, both in flower and in veg.

 

[Hushpuppy]

The T5 is going to give you the lush green growth during veg as it is (if you have the veg lamps) 6000-6500K which the plants love for green growth. The HPS is only ~3000K which is good for flowering but not so much for vegging, so vegging plants under HPS will leave them more yellowish. Not sure with the LEDs. I suspect it depends on how the LED lamps are set up with colors, and how many watts of power are shining on them.