Flowering tips needed please

[valleyboy]

There is a process in all plants called senescence. It is a naturally occurring process in plants where low phytochrome stimulation (lack of sufficient light(as well as a barrage of other possible factors)) causes release of cytokinins to try to remove the sugars before a high presence of abscisic acid is reached causing abscision, or loss, of the plant material.

Judging by the lack of development in the lower extremities it only seems logical to assume this physiological response is already taking place. Since the plant is already trying to rid itself of these 'suckers', why not just help it out a bit and remove the branches now? This process at the plant's rate probably won't finish until the end or after flowering since most plants use this process in preparation for winter (lets not turn this into a petty argument of cannabis annual vs perennial) . Now just imagine all the energy it will take to provide all the hormones to accomplish this. Wouldn't you rather have all that calcium it's eating go to aid in hormonal responses in the buds up top, rather than the ones the plant doesn't even want to keep?

Like I said earlier, just chop the branches. Of course it's stress, but so is, technically, the process of abscision. Just the lowest few, don't rape the poor thing.

 

[Locked]

Nice post valleyboy.....

 

[Roddy]

its always time to experiment...how else do you learn...and having a successfull first grow should make one(i would think)more comfortable with experimenting..exspecially when two oppisite advises are being offered to the same question...if he takes one of our advises..he's experimenting at that point..he is looking for input so obviously his info is short in this area..and recieving oppisite info...how to pic the right one? either way its an experiment..and the fact that he's concidering a little pruning this go around means he wasnt all that pleased with the first grow and is now looking for a better outcome...thats how i see it at least..TRY it...IT WONT KILL THE PLANTS..BOTTOM LINE...and see the difference..at the end..How else will u know???

Again, read the posts....

 

[BBFan]

There is a process in all plants called senescence. It is a naturally occurring process in plants where low phytochrome stimulation (lack of sufficient light(as well as a barrage of other possible factors)) causes release of cytokinins to try to remove the sugars before a high presence of abscisic acid is reached causing abscision, or loss, of the plant material.

Judging by the lack of development in the lower extremities it only seems logical to assume this physiological response is already taking place. Since the plant is already trying to rid itself of these 'suckers', why not just help it out a bit and remove the branches now? This process at the plant's rate probably won't finish until the end or after flowering since most plants use this process in preparation for winter (lets not turn this into a petty argument of cannabis annual vs perennial) . Now just imagine all the energy it will take to provide all the hormones to accomplish this. Wouldn't you rather have all that calcium it's eating go to aid in hormonal responses in the buds up top, rather than the ones the plant doesn't even want to keep?

Like I said earlier, just chop the branches. Of course it's stress, but so is, technically, the process of abscision. Just the lowest few, don't rape the poor thing.

Hi valleyboy-

Can you explain this a little better? It seems to contradict my understanding of senescence. I always thought senescence is basically cell degradation (aging) and in an annual plant (not trying to be petty- didn't understand that either) that essentially means the entire plant- with the end result being death.

I also thought cytokinins retard or slow senescence? Just looking for some clarifications.

Bottom line though, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the best step is to cut the sucker branches off, even during flower (of course better to do in veg, but I still do it in flower if I missed some).

 

[buddogmutt]

roddy...get off my nuts...my opinion is my opinion..i know what im saying...no need to reread anything...bottm line removing a few leaves wont hurt the plant..thats all ive been saying...period!!!!! the advise isnt for you! so why are you so stuck on my words...

 

[Roddy]

Hey Budd, I'm happy you want to help, maybe you have great success with pulling leaves off your plants, it's not what many of us suggest and especially with plants looking stressed as this one is. I'm sorry you don't like my commenting on your comments, but I'll give the advice I feel is right and if it's against what you feel, SORRY! Telling someone as Nucy to experiment and such....maybe you'd think different if you were the one worried about getting their first harvest under their belt.

Feel free to shout me down, I'm looking out for the OP, NUCY! Plain and simple.

 

[valleyboy]

Hi valleyboy-

Can you explain this a little better? It seems to contradict my understanding of senescence. I always thought senescence is basically cell degradation (aging) and in an annual plant (not trying to be petty- didn't understand that either) that essentially means the entire plant- with the end result being death.

I also thought cytokinins retard or slow senescence? Just looking for some clarifications.

Bottom line though, I wholeheartedly agree with you that the best step is to cut the sucker branches off, even during flower (of course better to do in veg, but I still do it in flower if I missed some).

Senescence is the natural removal of unneeded or unproductive plant material. In tree crops and perennials you see this as winter dormancy (also a survival technique). Leaves are no longer needed because fruit has been set, production is done and it uses cytokinins to signal the plant to begin relocating sugars and other photosynthates. In annuals, since their life cycle is complete after one growing season, senescence will usually mean the death of the plant. However if the plant isn't done with the growing season, it can still perform senescence to remove the unneeded or unproductive material in cases, like the one presented, where there is very little potential production of a certain area or branch.

Senescence can be brought on, as you stated, by aging of the cells, but also by hormonal responses caused by factors such as a lack of light.

Those bottom nuggies are hardly getting light, as a result, there is very little hormonal response in the immediate area. Little hormonal response of course means the plant will use little of its energy to produce anything in that area. This is called Apical Dominance. Plants have evolved to give the most 'care' to branches that are getting more light (or hormonal response) because more light (or hormonal response), in general, means more exposure and a higher possibility of collecting pollen/reproducing.


And sorry if I wasn't clear about the role of cytokinins. They are used in a variety of processes in plants, from cell division to cross-canopy signaling. They aren't the catalyst for senescence, but they are present prior to abscission to signal to the plant that "Hey, were cuttin' this area off, lets pack up and get the hell out of dodge". In other words, during senescence, prior to total abscission, the cytokinins will signal the plant to relocate the sugars, starches etc. to an area that will benefit more from their use. In tree crops, this means relocating to the roots for winter energy and spring budding. But it can also mean taking energy from lower branches and relocating that energy to the top branches, or areas with higher hormonal responses.

Yes, you are right, cytokinins have been linked with retardation of senescence, but that is a physiological response to remove as much of the photosynthates as possible before abscission.

There ya go, university level plant physiology. And I didn't even charge you .

 

[river]

I'm far from an expert but i see a lighting problem. If thats all the space you have try hanging a couple of cfl's down lower on the plant next time around to try to encourage some more veg growth and eliminate some of the stretching. Also your pots look like they are only about half full of soil. Fill them up. More soil can't hurt a thing. Just my 2 cents woth and good luck on the clone

 

[Roddy]

Would a lack of light also be a reason for this...would adding light better the situation without having to remove branches?

LOL, River beat me to it....

 

[Locked]

Once again....valleyboy thanks for that insightful post. It really makes some of the things I see happening to my plants make sense now.

 

[SunWolf]

Wow, thank you valleyboy. It never fails to amaze me that (some ) humans have been able to figure out how plants work to that intricate of a level...and translate it to a language that the rest of us can understand.

 

[valleyboy]

Glad I could be of assistance. Good to know I'm not wasting my money on these damn classes lol.

 

[depetreono]

im only on my first grow and dont want to enter a debate. but instead of cutting anything. wouldnt it help to just add a cfl or t5 vertically to give light to the lower leaves that seem to be lacking it. just my 1 cent.


oops didnt realize this was already suggested. should of read all the posts first.

 

[BBFan]

Thanks for the info valleyboy. Good post. I'm feeling all edjumicated now.

Good luck with your plants Nucy.

 

[bho_expertz]

Very nice indeed. Valleyboy do you feel like Yoda ? :aok:. So much knowledge :hubba:

 

[Nucy]

Lol, thanks guys. My first ever clone is doing well also, so that's good and I will post pictures of my plant later for everyone.