Do LED UFO & Other Work (you look here)

[CallMeAFool2]

I'll consider switching after they stop using HIDs in Holland....

The largest LED importer is in Holland. LEDITGROW. They purchase from the same factory I do, the original patent holding company. They purchase and obviously sell so much, even with the way Chinese will rip anything, they would not let me put LEDitGrow as my Logo. He travels to the factory a few times a year I am told by my Sales Woman. Must be selling them or using them somewhere.

I think over the next couple of years, most serious large growers will be using mostly all T5 Flouros and LED.

As I have said, I am not the banner boy for LED and I sell 30 to 1 HID lighting at this point. It is a to each his own and that is fine with me.

200 - 280 nm UVC ultraviolet range which is extremely harmful to plants because it is highly toxic.
280 - 315 nm Includes harmful UVB ultraviolet light which causes plants colors to fade.
315 - 380 nm Range of UVA ultraviolet light which is neither harmful nor beneficial to plant growth.
380 - 400 nm Start of visible light spectrum. Process of chlorophyll absorption begins. UV protected plastics ideally block out any light below this range.
400 - 520 nm This range includes violet, blue, and green bands. Peak absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and a strong influence on photosynthesis. (promotes vegetative growth)
520 - 610 nm This range includes the green, yellow, and orange bands and has less absorption by pigments.
610 - 720 nm This is the red band. Large amount of absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and most significant influence on photosynthesis. (promotes flowering and budding)
720 - 1000 nm There is little absorption by chlorophyll here. Flowering and germination is influenced. At the high end of the band is infrared, which is heat.
1000+ nm Totally infrared range. All energy absorbed at this point is converted to heat.

The bold fields are what we are shooting for. Whatever gets you there the most efficient, cost and production is what we should use. As T5 has shown us this with much less wattage, LEDs will continue to show us. In 5-6 Years, I bet no one will be using Metal Halide, nor High Pressure Sodium in their indoor gardens for all plant types

 

[CallMeAFool2]

As I have noted before:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35982&page=4
HPS produce more lumens than LEDs. In fact the LEDs are roughly equivalent to fluoros, except that you can specify the color temperature as whatever you want. If I spend more money on lamps I think I will rather buy the Grolux bulbs for my HPSs.

You are missing the point. Lights are rated at how bright it makes a room/space, not what the plant absorbs or uses. This is the biggest misconception with Tubes and LEDs. Only an ignorant man would discount that as we do with chemotherapy treatment, we are targeting with new medicines closer to what it needs and not 30 year ago chemo that was just a broad killer of everything. Plants are the same. Lumens is not the correct way to show numbers to a plant, any plant, it is a great way to say how bright a light is. It is not what we can see, it is what a plant can use. So many are just missing the point. My 1000W lights in MH/HPS are brigther than my 325W T5 and LED Units, but both of the latter provide MORE CORRECTLY what the plants want.

I am not banner LED boy, I just want others to look at the advancements since 2002 and it is 100 fold. There are still those that will not switch to Fluros, that have been proven to provide more at less watts of what the plant needs, especially in the blue spectrum (you see white with your eyes). We all want the biggest Tomato's, the larger Egg Plant, the biggest tightest buds, no doubt.

I am not saying LED, T5 provide less than HPS/MH, but if you are not growing for sale and your bottom line is not profits, it only makes sense and let us agree for argument's sake that HPS is the best (for an example) if you can grow whenever you want and the yield hypothetically is 15% less with T5 vegging and LED flowering, but you save 60-80% energy costs, your lights last much much longer, isn't cost even a consideration? that is a smart way to look at the argument until everyone sips from the same cup

 

[CallMeAFool2]

I would love having a light source that works as well for a fraction of the energy cost. While LEDs may be the light of the future, they are not there yet, and IMO, have a ways to go.

Do you have LED? With all your experience with your ladies, when was the last time you used an LED and what was it. You are a very influential person here, one very respected and your comments are taken as serious as a young girl who thinks daddy is still great (wish my 24 year old still thought I was the best thing since sliced bread as she did until about 17)

Knowing how much you are into this, I must believe you have used the latest generational stuff since the last quarter of 2008, the newest chip sets from Bridglux/Cree. What was the wattage and what was your results. You mention you veg now with your tubes, what to you flower with, HPS?

Thanks...

 

[northernlightssmokn]

Wonderful thread!! Very informitive and precise. Is the 300w system the same LED's as the 90w red/blue UFO? Are you suplimenting with any other light source in flower? T5's?

 

[TheEnhancementSmoker]

The largest LED importer is in Holland. LEDITGROW. They purchase from the same factory I do, the original patent holding company. They purchase and obviously sell so much, even with the way Chinese will rip anything, they would not let me put LEDitGrow as my Logo. He travels to the factory a few times a year I am told by my Sales Woman. Must be selling them or using them somewhere.

My point is...name one big-time Holland GROWER who perfers them.

 

[massproducer]

For someone that is not the poster boy for LED's, you sure seem to have a lot to prove... I wasn't even going to post anything in this thread until i see you depicting THG as a 17 year old nieve girl, which could not be farther from the truth, but anyway...

While yes you are very correct, light spectrums are one of the most important factor in determing wheather a plant can make use of a certain light source, but we already know that both HPS and MH both contain massive amounts of usable, in fact a MH is basically the closest thing you can buy to natural daylight, that is why they are used in places like stadiums where pure white/blue light is required... MH have a very high CRI some like in the 80s, and put out light in mainly the 340 - 500 nm or 4500 - 6500 K
While HPS puts out light light in the red spectrum at around 550 - 800 or around 2500 kelvin... But both MH and HPS contain somewhat full spectrums which is very beneficial, also the small amount of UV light that MH's produce help to increase the potency of cannabis as resin is in part a defence system against UV light...

Now while I commend you on your work with LED's, you have to understand that you are not by anymeans the first to document a LED grow here or online, and I respect that you are using the new technology but I can not see the new technology being that far ahead of the previous technology.

High times, treating yourself and several other mags have done compairison grows using real LED UFO's and they all have the same conclusion... They work good for vegging but are crap for flowering because of the intensity... And yes once we determine that we have the correct spectrums, the most important thing becomes intensity and penetration, which LED's lack

So if I were you I wouldn't be holding my breath for all the serious growers to give up their HPS's in exchange for LED's

 

[northernlightssmokn]

You stated:
1) I wasn't even going to post anything in this thread until i see you depicting THG as a 17 year old nieve girl, which could not be farther from the truth, but anyway...

2)also the small amount of UV light that MH's produce help to increase the potency of cannabis as resin is in part a defence system against UV light...

3)High times, treating yourself and several other mags have done compairison grows using real LED UFO's and they all have the same conclusion... They work good for vegging but are crap for flowering because of the intensity.

4)They work good for vegging but are crap for flowering because of the intensity...


OK here we go....

First we all need to :ccc:

1)You had very good information to share that I found so informative that I broke out the note pad. Thankyou for sharing it!! You did not want to share it?
It took your misinterpritation of a good analogy to get you to post....
WOW. Anyway I am sure that he did not call her that but rather was identifying a situation. The situation being a person stating facts that were told to them and not being open minded to a rebuttle even though the original "facts" were little more than hearsay. He also stated he was shocked that a person of her stature would fall into this catigory. He also addressed her with honor and respect. Just my opinion.

2) This is pretty cool information. Do you have any sources that explane this in laymens terms or textbook style readings??

3) November 2008 High Times. Page10 has a small article on LED's and page 104 has a VERY fascinating article by Jorge Cervantez himself with a 3ft by 3ft room, one ufo and a yield of 600 grams. Hmmmm....I dunno about that and I am LED fan!! 21 oz's wet or dry in a 40" by 40" room under ANY lighting??? Even I dont buy into that claim but the man is GOD of POT growing so I dont know.

4) Im baked. Absolutly ripped. Not big buds, nothing to boast about, but shure beats cheap bag weed from the street corner.

These LEDS give hope to future closet med growers everywhere. No ventalation system needed for heat. Such a small amount of power consumption allows for tennants to grow a small closet where rent includes power and not be a red flag nor be ripping off the landlord. The risk of fire in your apartment or the risk of a power overload on a breaker that requires a building manager or matinance man to retrip is significantly reduced.

HPS out perform LED's in areas held dear to growers that have the freedom of a slumlord or longdistance landlord. Home owners have an advantage that condo leasers or large scale apartment renters do not have. In that respect, LED's have an advantage that HID's do not. Remember that not everyone can grow a cash crop and not everyone wants to. People studying LED's now are paving a way for low cost Highly effective low energy LEd grow lights. Think about how things evolve. Reel to reel to record to 8track to cassett to cd to mp3 to mp4 to.....Remember the first microwave? Now what if no one bought a microwave in the beginning?....lol youd be a hungry stoner waiting for the oven down at the quicky mart to heat your burrito....lol
BOLTH LED's and HID's are great in theyre own ways. So what if the buds are small...I guess I am blessed by being spared the sheer agony of the inconvenience of breaking off a piece to load a bowl....pregrown bowl weed. Nice.

NICE!! BOWL WEED!! I coined that! ME!!! LED BOWL WEED. The next generation of smoke...the new OL' School my friend!

:bong:

 

[pcduck]

This was a very interesting and educational thread till the bashing started.

 

[northernlightssmokn]

I was also wondering, do you keep track of the height of your plants at harvest to see if they are shorter in an LED grow?

 

[Cannabiscotti]

anyone on here read in the new best of high times issue. there has been some 6 or so LEDs created that measure 2 inches by 2 inches and handle 200Watts each!! still years away from implementation as these costed over 1 million a piece.... but could you imagine? one LED 200Watts and it put out over 200,000 lumens! i'll take 5 of those (3 red 2 blue) over a 1000HPS any day....

 

[smokingjoe]

I've not seen an LED grow that's particularly impressive in terms of yield.

Screw the cash croppers; If I'm going to risk my career and potentially deprive myself of credit anywhere, I want the best bang for the buck.

Power consumption is in my opinion a moot point; it's only 25%, and 25% of bugger all is bugger all at the end of the day. It's interesting one refers to the owner of their property as a slum lord but also have concern for excessive power consumption. Running my desktop computer 24/7 would cost as much as a 400W grow.

You still need ventilation regardless the light source; plant's can't survive very long without fresh air containing Co2. You still need fans, just not as big, but you still need them. I've had a closet ebb flow grow with a 400w Son-T in a lowbay that had a regular bathroom fan extracting air and passive intakes; temperature was rarely excessive even with outrageous ambient temperatures we have in my part of the world. (plenty of water helps)

I'm not advocating this as best practice but it works.

Until LED outperforms HID there is no way I'm handing over any shekels to purchase them.

I would be interested in the 200W megalumen led's when they are out and don't cost the GDP of a small african nation.

 

[TheEnhancementSmoker]

All I know is that if I had to buy more expensive LED lights for a grow, because I was worried about power consumption, I'd just grow outside somewhere.

 

[northernlightssmokn]

All I know is that if I had to buy more expensive LED lights for a grow, because I was worried about power consumption, I'd just grow outside somewhere.

HAHAHAHAHA

I needed a good chuckle...

There is so many things wrong with that line of thought...how could you say something like that...ok so you said it...now it would be realy cool if you would back up your claim with facts...

A person lives in a cookie cutter 15 story apartment on the 11th floor where power is paid by the landlord and read through privatly owned meters for each apartment. The power company has one base meter(primary metered) For what ever reason that person can not deface the home in anyway.The tennant doeas not want to sacrifice not using an apliance to offset the power cost. They have a small car that is kept in a garage uptown and like millions of Americans..they seldom drive. They know NO other growers or sellers and only want a small amount of smoke on hand.

OK since your so smart on how EVERYONE can grow outside, figure this one out.. I'll be expecting a quick and precise yet logical and practical solution. Remember..no cash crop and 3 oz's is the state max there for a card holder. No selling excess weed, no hole cutting for ventalation system and no more than 300w of TOTAL power consumtion for the grow in ALL stages.

This is going to be good information! Please use details if you wish and understand that I am very interested in ALL ways to enhance the ability to grow a closet grow for personal smoke so if you have a better alternative to HID's or LED's please let me know.

Thanks.

 

[TheEnhancementSmoker]

Well, that question doesn't have any merit to me, because I wouldn't grow in an apartment.

However, you then wrote "if you have a better alternative to HID's or LED's please let me know" which doesn't make any sense to me either, because my stance the whole time has been that LEDs are a poor alternative to HIDs. I use HID for my growing, and have no intentions to switch until I see some real benefit to "upgrading" to LEDs.

 

[blancolighter]

I was under the impression that this was not true and one of the selling points of LED's.... That they have a much longer lifespan with full brightness than HID lighting...... Now 6 years is longer than a HID bulb but I had heard the term of 20-30 years thrown around for LEDS....

I am not saying you are wrong, just that I have heard differently, or maybe that is for 1st Gen LEDS... While the 2nd Gen LEDs are brighter and b urn a lil more power.. that light loss figure might be directed to them... I am not sure....

I know of no one with brains and tech sheets ever to say these LED last 20-30 years, but I also have never read any tech sheets from reliable sources that say this loss one poster speaks of. that is just not true, according to the real specs.

Nope, my info was about 2nd generation LEDs, which still deteriorate by 30 percent after 5-6 years...

And Call Me a Fool, how about some tact here? You just trashed quite a respected person here. So what if she hasn't grow with LEDs, she has a weath of knowledge at her fingertips with the internet and quite a brain. Put the two together and you can get some good FACTS about LEDs and can come up with reasonable conclusions. She brought up points for a good DISCUSSION if anything (she was more stating her opinion about LEDs, but said nothing degrading to you), and your trashed her with name calling. Now who sounds more like the 17 year old girl? (hint, not her)

Also, before calling me a liar, why don't you step off your high horse and get your facts straight. (I highlighted the phrase you were completely wrong about above and tried calling ME out on)

Here's a link to Cree's LED Product testing report: hxxp://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlamp_reliability.pdf

At the very bottom of the report, you don't even have to sift through all the info, it says exactly what I've been saying about LED deterioration.

And just so you don't try to blow off my knowledge like you did THG, yes I have and am growing with LEDs, a Procyon to be exact. I also love and am fully supportive of others LED grows, but the other guys are careful with their responses knowing what a hot subject it can be. I suggest you do the same for everyone's benefit.

 

[The Effen Gee]

...and people think I'M crazy for swearing by 600's...

...and veggin' under HPS...

"What?"

You don't use thowie's?" they say..

I would like to utilize a better lighting system, but LED's seem to weak.
In real life, next to a HID bulb, I like to grow bit, strong, beefy, healthy, rugged, durable plants that look like they are happy.

Not squat, stretchy, weak, sickly reachy plants like I have SEEN under LED systems.

Great for cactus, lettuce and growing 1/8th in your room in my book...

 

[blancolighter]

I think it depends on your style of grow, I think. I like to veg from clone for about 4 weeks under the LEDs, which seems to work great. I think its that magical point where the plants are decent sized, but dont have enough of a canopy to make the LEDs ineffective. I hear what you're sayin though Effen, lucky for me, veggin with the LEDs just fits my growin style...

 

[CallMeAFool2]

My point is...name one big-time Holland GROWER who perfers them.

I must plead stupidy here, I UNFORTUNATELY do not know any other grower but my limited experience and you great people here. I do pray for the day we may have a country like Holland or Canada where we can take Tours like we do Liquor and beer Facilities that can show off the great growers of America. That will a great day for us all. The Route 66 of Marijuana growers, how Choice would that be..... We can always hope....

 

[CallMeAFool2]

I am sorry you feel I trashed anyone. I was trying to be very careful to be respectful to all.

Some in this thread need to smoke some more pot (or less) as whatever happened to being open minded. Is this not what we are all about, freedom or choices, let me trash my lungs in my own home if I want, who is the government to decide that for me?

Asking a person what they used and when they used it, when they say one line snippets. You may not agree with me, but when you are a leader or one of great respect, that I hope that is all I have ever shown anyone, with that comes great responsibility. SURELY anyone can have an opinion.

Do you think it was disrespectful to ask someone when and if they used something last of something they basically say does not work, but maybe one day? Or did I say something else that I am missing.

Why the attacks? Don't smoke my pot, kewl, I thought as novice as I am, and I believe I have said that in about every thread I have posted, that I have been only growing my own use again after some 35 years, the last 18 months. I just apparently mistakenly assumed that showing my plants with and without LEDs (see my other posts) might be of some use for or against their wonders.

Yes, until this last grow, I was, as I have said, as skeptical as most, I have used MH for two cycles, then I was GIVEN an original UFO with ballast because you could not convince me and I was not laying out then, $500 plus bucks. Then my last grow before this one, I used my Pioneer VI units, two of them at 325w each with two UFOs Red/blue 80/10, then this very last one that is now just went into flowering for a week or so, was done with just two all blue UFO, no supplemental and now was using two standard second gen UFO 90s, then when I received in our first re-fanned 300, I tossed them back in my little Rubbermaid Unit and put the 300 outside, as picture shows. It is not going to work, I let the plants get too tall for this unit and need to have the light coming from the top, I think I said that.

I think I also have said in this or another thread, I import them, while there is not as much profit as one may think per dollar of cost, I have 50-75K worth in the warehouse at any given time, so i can pull anything I want, and do.

Lastly, let me say, IF I OFFENDED anyone, certainly not intentional I am truly sorry for this. If I have read anyone's posts on this site, it is Ms. Goddess, I hope she did not feel and I will go back up this thread to check, that I was being in anyway disrespectful. Yet I do not say that to the many of you that have been quite rude to a simple poster, posting pictures. If I was an advertiser here or hocking my wares, I could better understand. I do not want you to know me, because the man is here, we all know that and that would not be smart.

I am going to take a break from this for a bit, my intent was not to upset anyone's apple cart, I guess I must not read my posts the same way one or two of you are and I respect your comments, however harsh. toward me just trying to provide info and experience in pictures.

As we said in my day as teens in the 70s. Peace... as the kids seem to say today Peace out.... and move their arms and fingers in some sort of weird way.

I will post updated pictures here each week, I started the thread and will continue to show pics. Enjoy, debate, hate...I just do not have it in my 50 year old azz to argue. I am and have been without pot for almost 2 months, if this grow HPS and LED comparisons do not die on me, that should never be a problem again. Maybe I need to smoke a bowl, sorry if I offended anyone, ESPECIALLY Hemp Goddess.

 

[pcduck]

I don't think anyone minds a good debate. But when you are debating a personal preference no will win that debate. So that sorta makes the whole thing a moot point.

And as far as the one point of having to use leds because of your living environment and that is why they are better? Does not make any sense to me.jmo...As far as the landlord thing I am one, and in my experience most landlords don't care what you do as long as 1) pay your bills 2) don't cause trouble that the popo are at the residence constantly.jmo and my $0.02

Ps. I also did not buy a big screen TV when they were $20,000.00 either.