$10 smart grow system using an old computer!!!

[zem]

thats exactly how i understood you don, i need the 6V power supply for the neutral side of the current to be always connected and the phase side of the current i get it from port, this then turns on another relay with a 120v or 24v so that i get a flowing current which itself powers a relay which has input of 120 or 24v and turns on the main 240v current, i got what your sayin all along but i'm not quite sure this way works because i think that the parallel port cannot by itself power a relay with a 24v or 120 v current without resistors capacitors in between. your way is straightforward thats how i thought of it in the beginning of my research but as i read about it it seems that the parallel port can only power a little LED, i'm not quite sure maybe i missed something? maybe the figures that i was looking at with resistors capacitors are only the components of a relay? if this way your talkin about is the right way it will be very easy for me to apply it but if you look at the parts needed to do this in the instructables it mentions more things, since its a short instructions im gona copy paste it following this thread, hold on

 

[zem]

intro$10 Smart Home System
I have seen many smart home systems that enables you to hook up your appliances to your PC and control it right from your desktop. They are all very comprehensive and above all very expensive. I was thinking of doing something similar without using a micro controller ( i know they are the fashion today but a layman has an aversion to it ). I kept thinking and thinking and tey suddenly it stuck me...the good old PARALLEL port!!!!...

I have used it to light an LED using a c program when i was 15...then i left it as soon as i layed my hands upon my first microchip pic project.

But i thought i better dust it back up...come one guys..let us do it....

step 1Basic Ideas of a Paralell Port
Everybody knows what is parallel port, where it can be found, and for what it is being used. the primary use of parallel port is to connect printers to computer and is specifically designed for this purpose. Thus it is often called as printer Port or Centronics port (this name came from a popular printer manufacturing company 'Centronics' who devised some standards for parallel port). You can see the parallel port connector in the rear panel of your PC. It is a 25 pin female (DB25) connector (to which printer is connected). On almost all the PCs only one parallel port is present, but you can add more by buying and inserting ISA/PCI parallel port cards.

the Pin outs are simple...
pins 2-9 are the 8 data pins which we will be using to control up to 8 switches.
step 2The Circuit
Parts List

IN4148 Diode - 1
6V Relay -1
1KOhm Resistor - 1
202Kohm Resistor - 1
BC547 Transistor -1 (BC548 Will also do)
LED - 1
DB25 Male connector ( Usually comes with a 25/18 wire cable)
6V Power Supply - 1 ( I used a old charger from Nokia, It worked pretty well)
Working Board - 1 ( you can also do it in Christmas tree style...but i prefer doing it in a board )
Necessary Wiring


Pins 18-25 Usually comes shorted together in the connector itself..else do it in the connector and use a single wire to the ground to minimize complications...

step 3The software to run it.....
I am not venturing into the details of the programming..

Google for inpout32.dll to get the details

 

[zem]

this is another figure from other instructions hxxp://www.dakeng.com/relay.htm

 

[Growdude]

thats exactly how i understood you don, i need the 6V power supply for the neutral side of the current to be always connected and the phase side of the current i get it from port, this then turns on another relay with a 120v or 24v so that i get a flowing current which itself powers a relay which has input of 120 or 24v and turns on the main 240v current, i got what your sayin all along but i'm not quite sure this way works because i think that the parallel port cannot by itself power a relay with a 24v or 120 v current without resistors capacitors in between. your way is straightforward thats how i thought of it in the beginning of my research but as i read about it it seems that the parallel port can only power a little LED, i'm not quite sure maybe i missed something? maybe the figures that i was looking at with resistors capacitors are only the components of a relay? if this way your talkin about is the right way it will be very easy for me to apply it but if you look at the parts needed to do this in the instructables it mentions more things, since its a short instructions im gona copy paste it following this thread, hold on

This is what your missing Zem,

The 6 v is to power the circuit you just posted, Its used to energize the 6 volt relay, that relay has contacts that have 120 or 24 or whatever volts applied to them and when energized will complete the circuit to energize the load relay which is the one used to actually turn something on.

Each device you need to turn on will have 2 relays, the control (6v) and the load relay which is whatever you need to use.

 

[zem]

i totally understand that i must be not explaining clearly but i get it growdude exactly what you're saying but the circuit you're describing doesnt involve the resistors transistor and diode that are shown in the diagrams above and these are the components i know nothing about and dont understand why theyre there or how to hook them and none of you guys is mentioning anything about them to me

 

[Growdude]

i totally understand that i must be not explaining clearly but i get it growdude exactly what you're saying but the circuit you're describing doesnt involve the resistors transistor and diode that are shown in the diagrams above and these are the components i know nothing about and dont understand why theyre there or how to hook them and none of you guys is mentioning anything about them to me

That is the control circuit, what it does is take the parallel output signal and switch it using the transistor and 6v supply enough to fire the 6 v relay.

The input from the parallel port goes to DO - D8 IN THE TOP DIA, or the sig. in the second.

The 6 v is to power the circuit you just posted, Its used to energize the 6 volt relay,

 

[zem]

Do-D8 are the data pins from parallel port follow fig.1 theres a 2.2Kohm resistor then a transistor, then it goes to a point of interception with the circuit from 6v power supply. the circuit from the 6v power supply goes also through a 1kohm resistor and to the diode from the other side, what are these? i understand the relay concept very well but what are the resistors transistors and diode doin there in the circuit before the relay?? thats what im missing

 

[Growdude]

Do-D8 are the data pins from parallel port follow fig.1 theres a 2.2Kohm resistor then a transistor, then it goes to a point of interception with the circuit from 6v power supply. the circuit from the 6v power supply goes also through a 1kohm resistor and to the diode from the other side, what are these? i understand the relay concept very well but what are the resistors transistors and diode doin there in the circuit before the relay?? thats what im missing

They are a switching circuit, they take that do- d8 data and switch the 6v on to fire the 6v relay.

Its a solid state switch thats it dont worry about what each component does, together they will take very small signal (par. port data) and turn on a 6 v relay.

 

[Growdude]

something else this circuit could do,

One could also use an external signal , say from a float switch to input on the the circuits control bias (the resistor that goes to the transistor), or where you would connect your parallel port 's do - d8.

this could be an input to say"rez low fire the fill valve" if the float shuts off the 6v when full the circuit would shut off the fill valve.

Well not as flexible as a micro controller this is essentially what it does.

I would rather be able to directly input that to the computer and let the software turn on the circuit.

 

[DonJones]

ZEM,

This is frustrating because you're doing just what I do way too often -- focusing on one small part of a project and trying to apply that to the entire project when it does not transfer. (GOD it is amazing when I look back that I ever learned anything because I've done that so many times and I don't know where my mentors got the patience to deal with me.)

Okay lets try starting over with a clean piece of paper -- forget the whole Internet DIY thing for a moment.

What are you trying to do -- Answer use a computer to replace you, or a timer, throwing switches to control various devices -- lights, fans, maybe CO2 supplement equipment, pumps valves and so on-- that run your grow operation.

Am I correct so far?

Second question is how do I make the computer throw switches under the circumstances that I program into it? --Two part answer 1. find software and program it --that is way out of my area of expertise at the moment and someone else will have to help you there.-- and 2. find hardware to ocnvert the computer's very very low powered output signal in to a solid state or mechanical means of shutting the power off and on.

Next comes How do I find and use the hardware in part 2 of the above answer? Presto, here is the partial answer USE "THE CIRCUIT" FROM THE INTERNET DIY that you posted.

That is where you were when you asked us for help and that is where we are starting from -- you have found the answer to all of your original questions and goals -- you have the means to control at least 8 different functions with the computer.

However, you now have a new problem -- the switch (the CIRCUIT in the Internet DIY project) will NOT handle sufficient power to run my various devices, how can I handle the required power with an inadequate load carrying capacity?

Growdude and I are trying to show you how to take any switch with a limited power carrying capacity and use it to handle large amounts of power.

Am I correct and do you follow me? If not, then ignore the rest of this and try to explain where I lost you rather than saying"Yes, but".

If I am correct and you follow me so far, then here is the answer very simply put -- you use your very light duty switch -- in this case the computer controlled "circuit" -- to control a high powered switch -- in your case the 240V relay.

Now here is how we are suggesting you do that.

First find relays that will control your required 240V at what ever amperage you want it to handle -- I think some where you said 30 amps so I'll use that but the actual amperage isn't real important so long as the relay will handle it.
Because you are using 240V your relay MUST be a 2 pole relay that can turn off and on both power legs of the 240vAC circuit.

Now you have control what ever holding power it requires to operate the power relay. in our case we chose 120v control power because it is easy to come by if you already have 240 volts available If you already have a 24 volt source available, then use a relay that 24 v will operate.
That part of our apparent disagreement is irrelevant to the problem at hand -- controlling the power relay.

The solution is very simple, run that controlling power through the relay terminals on the output side of the "circuit" from your Internet DIY project. Now there is one final caution -- make sure that the 6volt relay you use when you build the circuit will carry the amperage that your power relay needs to operate or you will burn that relay out and nothing will work.

Change the 120v in my diagram to whatever voltage you want to use and look at it again.

Let me know if this helps or makes it worse. I'm not trying to talk down to you, just trying ot make it simple enough that almost any one reading this thread can follow it too. Also, some times the smartest people are the hardest ones to communicate with because they try to read too much into things. I know that is usually why I don't understand instructions.

Good smoking man.

You will get it worked out!

 

[zem]

ok i read some more on this and i almost got it figured, the figures above are to show how to build a circuit that is found in relays we buy commercially so basically it's teaching us how to make what we call a relay but in fact the real relay is only the last part which is the electromagnet and switch, the resistor diode and transistor are found inside the "relay" we normally buy, am i right?? now to apply it for a 16output circuit it is probably much better to build my relays since i will need 16 seperate ones and it will become extremely costly to buy them completely built and soldered with resistors transistors and diode in one piece. things have cleared up now that i read some more. i'll keep up my research gona look for proper softare next i'll keep you guys posted, thx for your patience

 

[DonJones]

ZEM, Functionally your correct; "the circuit in the Internet project" FUNCTIONS as a relay. Actually, a more accurate description is the resisters diodes, 6 v power supply and so on are the "control" circuit for the small 6v electromagnetic relay. If you can find a 6v relay that uses a small current to operate and can handle the 240V high current load, then you wouldn't need the second separate relay.However, I think the odds are seriously stacked against you.

Yes you are going to have to assemble the "circuits" yourself because they are a custom design and device.

You mentioned building 16 of them. Unless you have 2 parallel ports you will only need 8 because the parallel port only has 8 circuits through it.

No the relay we normally buy is only the electromagnetic part, the coil that energizes the electromagnet which pulls the armature and move the power circuit contacts to opened or closed.

If you are going to use them to control 240v circuits, then they have to be 2 pole like Growdude and I used to safeguard the timers because in a 240 v circuit you have 2 parallel 120v circuits that share the neutral wire so that you have phased opposite to each other so that at any given time you have a total of 240 v across the 2 power wires and no current flowing through the shared neutral wire (assuming that both circuits are equally loaded). To shut off or turn on a 240v circuit you have to interrupt or restore both hot wires at the same time, hence the name 2 poles.

I think you are there. When you look at my schematic, the box labeled "the circuit contains the entire circuit containing all of the parts on the parts list for the circuit form the Internet. You wil have to build as many copies o fthe circuit as you are going to have circuits feeding through the parallel cable. Each parallel port will control 8 circuits. So if your computer only has one parallel port and you want ot control more than 8 circuits, then you will have to add one. I'm not sure how to do that but I think you can find add on cards that have parallel ports built in to them. Just how you will program the software to control both ports separately is something I have no idea about.

Good smoking

 

[zem]

:holysheep: Don, look what i've found>>>hxxp://electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm for 35$ one can get a parallel port relay 8 outputs with led on each that powers 5 Amps 240V! software included then i would place another relay for my lights and i can power other equipment directly through the parallel port relay, well it's not exactly a $10 system but still cheap. i might still have to get the parts for it myself since im not in US i'll have to see what the shipping cost would be, but hey! this is a breakthrough already software is available to download cheers

 

[Growdude]

:holysheep: Don, look what i've found>>>hxxp://electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm for 35$ one can get a parallel port relay 8 outputs with led on each that powers 5 Amps 240V! software included then i would place another relay for my lights and i can power other equipment directly through the parallel port relay, well it's not exactly a $10 system but still cheap. i might still have to get the parts for it myself since im not in US i'll have to see what the shipping cost would be, but hey! this is a breakthrough already software is available to download cheers

Nice find. its the same circuit you posted but in a 8 circuit package.

Not pre assembled but Im sure its easy to solder together.

Still in order to automate anything your going to need inputs unless its just a expensive timer.

 

[DonJones]

Everyone here is the simplest explanation of what a relay is, how they work, and the various types/states that I have ever seen. Their explanation is for simple single pole relays but the only difference between as single pole relay and a two pole relay is the 2 pole relay has a second set of contact for a second load circuit.

Relay Contact Information:

Relay contacts on most of our kits and in the industrial world are labeled with NO (Normally Open), NC (Normally Closed), and C (Common). These labels and the function of the relays seems to cause a great deal of confusion among people, however once you understand the meaning it is quite simple and literal.

The first thing you need to know is that a relay contact is a switch, nothing more, nothing less. It does not provide power; it simply opens and closes an electrical circuit, just like the light switch on a wall. When the relay is de-energized or turned off there is an electrical connection between NC and Common, hence normally closed. In the off state there is not a connection between NO and common, hence normally open. When the relay is energized or turned on the NO and C make an electrical connection, and the electrical connection between NC and C is removed.

Here is a sample of connecting a simple 110 VAC light to a relay so that it will turn on when the relay is energized. Wire the hot 110VAC to the Common (C), Normally Open (NO) to hot side of the light bulb, Neutral from the light bulb to the neutral of the 110VAC wiring. Now when the relay is energized the NO will close connecting to the C and allowing power to flow through the bulb.

The last issue is voltage and current ratings. A typical relay rating will be 24VDC @ 5 Amps, 110VAC @ 10 Amps, 220 VAC @ 5 Amps. This is simply telling you the max amperage that the relay contacts can handle at the voltage you are using. For example a 100 Watt light bulb is going to be about 100 VAC @ 1 Amp. This is 9 Amps below the rating, so the circuit can handle turning on an off the light bulb with no problem.


Hopefully this will help someone understand what I've been ramblling about trying to explain it.

Good smoking! MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!

 

[DonJones]

ZEM,

I checked it out and that is surely the best deal you are going to find anywhere unless some one just gives it too you.

I noticed the price for the kitCK1601K is $34.95 and the price for the fully assembled and tested one CK1601A is only $49.95. Personally I'd order the completely assembled one, part number CK1601A for the small difference. Unless you are just into assembling kits, the time you save and the assurance that it has been tested and everything works is well worth the additional $15.00. That is less than 2 hours wages at minimum wage here in Washington State and I'm positive that it will take longer than that to assemble.

You did notice that you have to supply a 12VDC power supply didn't you? I clicked on NEED A POWER SUPPLY on the page for the Parallel Relay Board and they have a fully assembled 12VDC power supply for $12.95 if you purchase it and the relay board at the same time. It looks to me like you could purchase both items and be well on the road to having a plug together system. Then all you would have to do is connect your various 240V power circuits to your devices and you will be up and running as soon as you get the software installed and programed.

Like Growdude says, now you need to figure out how to get the inputs into the computer and cross program it so that the sensors cause the computer to control the devices the way you want it to, otherwise you just have a complicated timer -- of course if you start adding up the number of different circuits you can control then it is actually a pretty inexpensive timer because 8 circuits at any thing over $8.50/each timer is going to cost more than this set up. Plus this has the advantage of being able to control all of the devices from one location.

I think you have gotten the only part of your project that I can help with in the bag. I have no idea how you connect the various sensors to the computer much less how you program it. However if you find something and want me to review it, I'll look it over to see if it sounds reasonable.

Before you go any farther, I suggest you sit down and make a list of what devices you want to control and under what conditions you want them to turn on or off.

For instance:
Lights -- on at XXXX off at XXXX (for each different grow area).
or
Cooling system -- on at xx degrees and off at xx degrees.

Incidentally most HVAC systems operate on at least a 3F spread between on and off, put you could set yours up anyway you want to. The smaller the spread the more frequently it is on but presumably for a shorter time each time. Of course starting the system up it shortens the life expectancy so you are trading off a narrower temperature spread versus a longer life expectancy for the system. This usually applies to any electrical device and well as engines.

You made it man!

Good smoking

 

[dirtyolsouth]

:ciao:Seasonz Greetingz Electricically Talented MPers!

Great topic Zem... although taking it down to the design level makes me feel like a dog watching a video game... Can I throw a quick question at you guys? I've been looking for a thermostatically controlled fan speed controller. I need to run my 630cfm fan wide open during 'lights on' to keep my 1K hps cool but during 'lights out' I'd like the fan speed to drop back to i.e. 40% of maximum for stealth reasons and just enough to maintain negative air pressure and all air movement in my bloom closet through my carbon filter and my exhaust.

I saw a product sold in the UK as the PrimAir Controller...

hXXp://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=177

This thing sounds PERFECT... but is there an easy way for me to run this on US voltage... 120v? Would it work with a consumer international power adaptor or would it act buggy... Like my electronics do when I'm in Europe, running them thru adaptors...? :hubba: Or do you guys know of any products that could accomplish this feat and are already available for 120v?

Thanks in advance for any info you can give me... Sorry to jump a little bit off topic. I've got a good suggestion... You should start a electrical support thread where MPeeps could benefit from all of your technical know how...

Peace!

 

[Growdude]

Here ya go Dirtyolsouth

hxxp://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=AACGZTEMP1V&eq=&Tp=

 

[zem]

DOS if you only need the fan to change rpm at light on/off then you dont need to buy the thermostat, all you need is a relay that you can run with your light timer and hook it to a regular fan controler so that when it's normally closed (lights off) the fan runs on current that passes through the fan controller at low speed and when the relay switch is on (light on) it gets a regular current and flows at full speed will save you $s

 

[leafminer]

With a bit of Quickbasic and one of those parallel port controller boards you can do a lot.