LED AK-48 Grow Journal

Hick · Jun 2, 2009

120 watts, and had 3600 lumens output.

A "regular" 150 watt HPS starts out at about 16000 lumens
..not to be dissing your success in any manner, she looks wonderfull. And I know 'heat' is virtually a non-issue w/ leds. Just saying.......the economics don't make good sense, "if" your numbers are correct. For only a slight increase in kilowatt useage, around 5X the lumens ??

Cannabiscotti · Jun 2, 2009

they certainly look like more than 3600 lumens were produced

erwinsweeney · Jun 2, 2009

Hick said:
A "regular" 150 watt HPS starts out at about 16000 lumens
..not to be dissing your success in any manner, she looks wonderfull. And I know 'heat' is virtually a non-issue w/ leds. Just saying.......the economics don't make good sense, "if" your numbers are correct. For only a slight increase in kilowatt useage, around 5X the lumens ??

I do understand the Lumens factor. Through more investigation; Of the LED's available on the market today, I'm sure happy I wound up buying the one I did. I have learned that the majority of LED's being sold today are crap. I know that HPS lighting is a virtually guaranteed quality outcome. I must tell you though: The experience of doing something new, where the outcome is not known, is kinda exciting for me. And so far it's really working out IMO. Being that it is my first grow as well, it's really exciting from a horticultural aspect. I'm having a lot of fun with it!

erwinsweeney · Jun 2, 2009

Cannabiscotti said:
they certainly look like more than 3600 lumens were produced

I would tend to agree Scotti. Thats what the manufacturer rated it at though. Maybe the manufacturers are on to something when they keep claiming to have the exact color spectrums figured out for optimal plant growth. I only have the experience of growing these plants in the veg stage with the LED. But I can honestly say I wouldn't trade that 120 watt unit for any other 120 watt unit for vegging purposes. I am slightly leary of it's flowering capabilities (mostly due to what I hear in MP forum) and the lumen factor, but I will try it eventually just to see.

erwinsweeney · Jun 2, 2009

Well, the two ladies have been in flowering mode for 3 days now. Not much changed, but figured I throw up some pics anyway. I'm curious and would appreciate some input as to how long it takes to see some changes, and what do you normally see first when you switch over to flowering??

SPEARCHUCKER · Jun 2, 2009

Thats 3600 lumens where they are using 90+% of the light.
Which makes it as good as something 10-15k lumens because though the others might deliver with more penetrating power. Only about 15% of the light output is usable.
Lumens dont really mean anything when concerning LEDs. Its the Watts per LED that matters due to the penetrating power desired.
You can take a 5w 10light led that will outdue the 90 1w leds because the light is being delivered with power.

erwinsweeney · Jun 2, 2009

SPEARCHUCKER said:
Thats 3600 lumens where they are using 90+% of the light.
Which makes it as good as something 10-15k lumens because though the others might deliver with more penetrating power. Only about 15% of the light output is usable.
Lumens dont really mean anything when concerning LEDs. Its the Watts per LED that matters due to the penetrating power desired.
You can take a 5w 10light led that will outdue the 90 1w leds because the light is being delivered with power.

That makes some sense to me. I recently started using the 250 watt CFL bulb thats is rated around 10,800 or more lumens. When I set it side by side with the 120 watt LED that is rated at 3600 lumens, it seems to me that the LED is more intense and harder to look at. Maybe I'll get ballzy enough after this round and switch the lights just to see what happens. Use the CFL for the clones, and flower with the LED, just so I can say I've done it, and can say whether or not they work based on the fact I've tried it. Thank you again for the reply Chucker.

SPEARCHUCKER · Jun 2, 2009

No problem Erwin.
Im not so sure about flowering with LED only if yours is just Red/Blue.
I would add a couple small 6500 CFLs with it because there are other spectrums of color like Orange that the plant feeds off. Less yours has a few of those Whites in the board.

erwinsweeney · Jun 3, 2009

Still don't really see any changes in the plants since switching to 12/12. I'm still curious when and exactly what changes I will see first off. It has only been 4 days into flowering, i'm excited nonetheless.

erwinsweeney · Jun 4, 2009

Well: Not a whole lot of change. I do notice that the newest leaves are starting to have a lot more trichomes since switching to 12/12. I also notice that the leaves and branches are really turning themselves so that they are pointed directly at the CFL bulb. They are still growing taller, almost an inch per day. They are about 20" now. I just decided that I would put the 120 watt LED unit back into the equation. As you can see in the pictures it is hung behind the CFL bulb, pointing down and towards the front of the tent. Doing some side bonus lighting. We will see how it goes like that. I'm having lots of fun with it.

Jambi the Snizzz! · Jun 5, 2009

erwinsweeney said:
That makes some sense to me. I recently started using the 250 watt CFL bulb thats is rated around 10,800 or more lumens. When I set it side by side with the 120 watt LED that is rated at 3600 lumens, it seems to me that the LED is more intense and harder to look at. Maybe I'll get ballzy enough after this round and switch the lights just to see what happens. Use the CFL for the clones, and flower with the LED, just so I can say I've done it, and can say whether or not they work based on the fact I've tried it. Thank you again for the reply Chucker.

i wouldn't start EDIT! around with the LED/CFL processes that early in your grow career. make sure you establish a healthy mother plant and your clones don't end up dying in a ****** cardboard box. make sure your strain is strong then start to play. that way you can see how the plants grow differently after you are familiar.

sry...i'm higher than a mexican on pay day cousin... you know.:holysheep:

erwinsweeney said:
I guess since you came over and helped build and install the carbon filters, that kinda entitles you there T Snizzz... All is going pretty well so far as you can see. It wont be too long. Seems like forever though.

damn it cousin, i can see your nipples in your pics. don't you know the man can identify you with NIPS (nipple identification police system) software they have?

Hick · Jun 5, 2009

uhmmmm... Hey .."cous'.." ----> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Site_Rules.html
...

Simply put, cussing is not necessary and should not be used. If you feel like cussing in a private message to another member who is tolerant of it, then that's fine. The use of cussing in the open forums is not acceptable as polite conversation. Please just talk without using profanity.

stonedrone · Jun 5, 2009

That was a good idea to add the led bro. Nothing wrong with more light. Plants look good. Just reading through and noticed you cloned some AK-48. I think if you clone an autoflowering breed the clones flower at the same time as the mother because they are genetically predisposed to flower on a time schedule rather than a light schedule.

Hick · Jun 5, 2009

I started 4 AK-48 seeds from Buy Dutch Seeds about 8 weeks ago.

I don't believe they are autos 'drone... AK 48 is not necessarily autos.
"Rudy' X's"... should have been matured and ready for harvest by now...

stonedrone · Jun 5, 2009

erwinsweeney · Jun 5, 2009

Hi Drone. No they are not autos. These are the regular AK-48 beans I bought from Buy Dutch Seeds. Thanks again for stoppin by, I'm checkin ur link right now.

erwinsweeney · Jun 5, 2009

Jambi the Snizzz! said:
i wouldn't start EDIT! around with the LED/CFL processes that early in your grow career. make sure you establish a healthy mother plant and your clones don't end up dying in a ****** cardboard box. make sure your strain is strong then start to play. that way you can see how the plants grow differently after you are familiar.

I'm not yet going to try to flower with just the LED light if thats what you mean. I'm just using both lights in the tent at the same time. I have the two big female plants and the one clone that is about 7"-8". When I was using just the CFL bulb, I noticed the plants "reaching", like the fan leaves were turning face to directly at the bulb, and branches going towards it. That kinda leads me to believe that they required more light, since they never really did that during veg with the LED only. With both in there, I'm more confident that they will have what they need. They seem really happy though Snizzz. I'm really excited to see them fill themselves in. It's been like 6 days in flowering, and I'm ready to see some giant buds! LOL.

MootPointBlank · Jun 5, 2009

SPEARCHUCKER said:
Thats 3600 lumens where they are using 90+% of the light.
Which makes it as good as something 10-15k lumens because though the others might deliver with more penetrating power. Only about 15% of the light output is usable.
Lumens dont really mean anything when concerning LEDs. Its the Watts per LED that matters due to the penetrating power desired.
You can take a 5w 10light led that will outdue the 90 1w leds because the light is being delivered with power.

I believe I understand the gist of what you're trying to say. I just posted this in the "Lights" section a few minutes ago and I think it's what's been missing in our language when discussing light and lighting systems. I did some reading on Wiki about lumens; they are "a measure of the perceived power of light" by the human eye, which is relative to the wavelength of light in question. This appears to be a relative description that we are using to describe how bright a source of light is, but tend to only confuse each other because the variables of wavelength, distance, environment and individual eye sensitivity are neither stated nor held constant. If I've lost you, what I'm saying is that "Jack, from the Outback, holds his 10000 Lumen LED fixture with a particular spectral frequency output, in a completely dark room, 1' from his eyes and exclaims, "Crikey, that's bright!" and Jill, from Brazil, stands 4' from her 10000 Lumen T5 fixture with a particular spectral frequency, in a room with the ceiling light on and coos, "Aye, papi, so much light. Certainly much brighter than Jack's." Neither will ever know the truth until they start discussing things in terms of radiant emittance, the measure of the power of light emitted at the surface of a source in units of watts/square meter. This measure can be further reduced to watts by multiplying by the surface area in square meters of the source (bulb). What we effectively would be discussing is the total power of all frequencies of light emitted from a particular source in REwatts. The only consideration left would be to mention the color temperature (concentration of a range of frequencies of light) as we usually do in Kelvin. The watts that we currently use to discuss the ratings of bulbs and fixtures is in terms of electrical power consumed and is an inaccurate method for comparing light output, especially when comparing entirely different technologies. A 5W LED is much different than a 5W CFL. I don't know if or how we could get this information from manufacturers, but the lumens that they have been feeding us with for so long smack of a marketing tool for manipulating the technologically unsavvy. But that's just my take. MPB

erwinsweeney · Jun 5, 2009

So. What I gather MPB is that essentially manufacturers could hypothetically make any claim to output that they want too. It would be extremely difficult to back up or disclaim any claim they make? I totally understand the concept you talk about, as far as it being apples and oranges to compare different technologies. I personally believe LED's can provide optimal growing conditions. I also believe that the exact configuration and technique of using LED's has not yet been perfected. Again. So far I love using the LED unit. We will see after the grow is done. I'm hoping I still feel that way. I like to try new things.

erwinsweeney · Jun 5, 2009

I was just looking at my plants and noticed one of the plants at the top, the leaves are slightly taco'd. Here are two pics of it. Is this something to worry about? I just added the LED back into the setup yesterday. The CFL is about 5" away, and the LED is about 6" away. Should I back them off a bit or what?

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