# best time to lollipop?



## ross (May 21, 2009)

So i think i am going to use this "lollipop" technique and turn what i cut into clones, but i've read contradicting things on the best time to do this.  when do you guys think is the best time?


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## StoneyBud (May 21, 2009)

ross said:
			
		

> So i think i am going to use this "lollipop" technique and turn what i cut into clones, but I've read contradicting things on the best time to do this. when do you guys think is the best time?


It's a matter of shock. You don't want to take huge branches off the plant and have it shock out.

The best cuttings for clones are about 4 to 6 inches tall. If you take your side branching when it's at that size, you'll reduce the amount of shock you place on the plant.

After taking your cutting, place it into a bowl of water and cut it again at a 45 degree angle while under water. This will prevent an embolism which in turn could prevent uptake of water and cause death.

Then use your rooting hormone, take all but about three leaves from the cutting and put it into moderate light.

Never cut more than 30% of your plant mass off at once. It can cause severe shock and make a hermie of your host plant.

Good luck!


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## ross (May 22, 2009)

thanks, but when is the best time, a week before flowering?


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## NYC_Diesel x Jack_Herer (May 22, 2009)

you mean a week before flowering the clone or a week before flowering the host plant?  If you mean when is the best time to take clones it is more a matter of the growth and maturity if the plant you are taking the clones from. They can be taken anytime after the plant has established itself.


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## ross (May 22, 2009)

no i mean when is the best time to lollipop the host plant.


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## tesla (May 22, 2009)

I start lollipoping the first week I start to flower them. I have experiments on lollipopin and I found no different in weight. I don't do any lollipop on my og Kush, Blueberry and a few other strains do great I hate messing with air buds.


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## Tater (May 22, 2009)

I personally cut my clones and thin the plants out two weeks into flower.  After the stretch is done it makes the decision on what to trim a lot easier and the clones take just as well.  I have some in the fridge that have been sitting there for 9 weeks, I'm going to start the cloning process here soon.  AKA I'll put them in my homemade aerocloner.


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## StoneyBud (May 22, 2009)

When a marijuana plant enters into it's flowering cycle, it develops many distinct changes in it's physical makeup. Hormones are created to accelerate the flowering development and reduce the vegetative growth of the leaves and minor stems.

Put that idea aside for a minute.

When a plant is harmed by pests, crushing, cutting or breakage, it also develops a hormone that is different from the flowering hormone and causes the plant to slow it's growth while this hormone redirects the plants energy to the area of damage. During this repair, ALL other hormones within the plant are reduced or stop all together, depending on the severity of the damage and the resources needed to repair it.

If one causes damage to the plant after it's already started it's hormonal alteration into flowering, what happens is a double delay in flowering to the plants full capacity. The hormones that the plant WOULD HAVE made to accelerate flowering are no longer produced in their natural quantity and repair hormones are created instead, to repair the damage of the areas the cutting were taken from.

This is a proven, unmistakable process that takes place with certainty.

If cuttings are to be taken, the proper method to use is to take them in small quantities involving 30% of the total plant mass or less. This will greatly reduce the possibility of causing the plant to stall growth or become a hermaphrodite due to stress.

Always take cutting while the plant is still within the vegetative cycle.

Never take more than 30% of the plants total vegetative mass within any given healing time.

If you're going to trim the bush to eliminate side growth, the proper time to do so is at least two weeks PRIOR to placing the plant into it's flowering cycle.

This type of pruning should be a progressive procedure done during the plants entire life cycle. Not just at one last minute time.

Start removing side growth while the plant is still in a solid vegetative cycle and continue doing so up until two weeks prior to placing it into flower.

This allows the plant to fully recover it's full vegetative health, switch it's hormones back to the vegetative growth hormones from the repair hormones and then allows it time to stabilize before again changing it's hormones into the flowering phase.

btw, I can't bring myself to use the term "lollipoping". It makes me cringe for some reason. It's like calling the vegetative cycle "The greeny-meanie" cycle, or saying that the plant has to make it's boo boo better. hehe

Folks, the hormonal changes that marijuana goes through are outlined in almost every grow book. I always advise people to buy one of these books to gain the information that isn't found within groups like these. It will also help displace most of the bullcrap that is made up by some of the wannabe scientists that frequent this type of group to stroke their egos.

Good luck to all of you, and please, research what I've said. You'll find that everything I've said is exactly as it is in real, botanical science.

If you doubt it, look it up. Let me know if you find something written by someone with a PhD that contradicts something I've said. I'd be interested to learn from him or her.


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## WeedHopper (May 22, 2009)

> Start removing side growth while the plant is still in a solid vegetative cycle and continue doing so up until two weeks prior to placing it into flower.


 
:yeahthat:


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## massproducer (May 22, 2009)

It comes down to sinks VS sources.  Small sucker leaves do no good to your plant and help it to redirect its energy to places that are actually receiving enough light to actually form into a nice sized bud.

I am big on lillipoping and do it for the reason stated above but it also greatly improves air circulation underneath the canopy, which is very important in a densely planted garden.  I totally agree that you never want to take more then 30% of the plants foliage off, but you should not have too.  You only have to remove sucker branches that have no chance of reaching the canopy.  I still always keep the corresponding fan leaf because they are sources of energy and not sinks that will continually drain the energy.

I usually lillipop my plants at about week 3 of flowering, giving everything its fair chance at reaching the canopy.  I first started doing this when I use to screen everything, and you will find most people who are eccicient SCROGer's remove everything underneath the screen because once again all those sucker branches will every do is drain valuable energy from the plants.  If you are going to lillipop then you mush remember to cut the entire branch off leaving no nodes behind or the plant will just use the enegry to try and regrow what every nodes are left.

Trust me I am not saying what I do is right, it is just right for me in my situation.  Either way though, good luck, and keep it green


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## Shockeclipse (May 22, 2009)

the real question is, how many licks does it take to get to the center.......


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## Mutt (May 22, 2009)

just when you think you read it all...some one comes out with lollipopping  or is this a form of scrogging without the screen? 
WTH is that???? I'm assumeing its propagating aka cloning....

I agree that clones should be taken in veg. but there are times i've had to take them in the beginning of flower. When i thought i didn't want to keep the pheno going and changed my mind after the fact. I've also changed my mind at the very end (my JFxC99 for example) was hell to grow didn't yeild much...but some great smoke. So I harvest all but 15% and the revegged it. I have noticed that sat dom hybrids root better in early flower than indy doms ...think has to do with root production. sats continue to grow roots rampantly while indy's slow way down on root development during flower. I'm prolly gonna research that one more. but thats my experience so far.
Its a tough weed  Pretty hard to screw it up.  but stoney's post is right on


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## massproducer (May 22, 2009)

lillipoppin is simply removing the undergrowth that receives no light...  It isn't about cloning it's more about pruning and thinning the plants out.

Lollipoppin has been around for a while as a term, I first heard the term back in OG daze.


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## StoneyBud (May 22, 2009)

massproducer said:
			
		

> Lollipoppin has been around for a while as a term...


hehe, yeah, but when I told my prom date about it, it had nothing to do with plants... :hubba:


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## ross (May 22, 2009)

thanks for all the input, i definitely wont be taking 30% or more of the plant, i will probably take 3-4 clones per plant max.  what works best for me would be to lollipop/take clones right before starting 12/12, so if that has worked for you guys i think thats what ill do.


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## massproducer (May 22, 2009)

LMAO, :rofl: man I missed ya buddy  



			
				StoneyBud said:
			
		

> hehe, yeah, but when I told my prom date about it, it had nothing to do with plants... :hubba:


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## dirtyolsouth (May 25, 2009)

Hi,

Pruning and training of any kind is about control.  Your available space will pretty much dictates how aggressive you need to be.  I tend to start lollipop pruning my girls from early in veg...   I'll first top small clones at either the 5th or 7th node depending on how low the first set of developing branches is on my clone.  I'll then prune her down to four main branches and then let it recover and grow to develop in the veg cycle.  Being careful to keep all the leaves intact for energy, weekly I'll remove any 'sucker' branches on the developing branches and leave only the top 2-3 growing shoots.  Doing this concentrates growth auxins to the tips of the branches.  After putting my girls into flowering I'll do my last bit of clean up 10-14 days into the bloom cycle.  

This has worked well for me with many past grows.  The best thing for me is being able to keep all the bud development close to the lights and it also really cuts down on the trim work making harvest a breeze.  

Happy Growing!


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## Tater (May 27, 2009)

> When a marijuana plant enters into it's flowering cycle, it develops many distinct changes in it's physical makeup. Hormones are created to accelerate the flowering development and reduce the vegetative growth of the leaves and minor stems.
> 
> Put that idea aside for a minute.
> 
> ...



Just curious do you have any sources with PhD's that prove what you are saying?  How is it fair that you don't have to quote sources but anyone who wishes to refute you needs to before you will believe them?  Just curious, don't take this as a personal attack, look at it more like a civil debate between two people.

What hormones are you talking about?  Please be more specific.  From the research I have done on the subject plants that rely on a dark period in order to increase the hormone florigen do not react negatively (speaking solely on the hormone required for flower production and not stress induced hermaphrodisim) to physical damage, they keep on keepin on so to say.  Since marijuana is a phototropic plant each node is independent of the others as far as its flowering hormone goes.  

This can be proven by tying a bag around a single branch inducing a 12/12 flowering cycle on ONLY that branch to induce flowering at that single location on the plant while the rest of the plant will remain in a vegetative state.  If what you were saying about hormones were true then either the entire plant should begin to flower, or that branch should not flower as the hormones would be distributed among the entire plant.

Also what are the hormones that you speak of that are responsible for repairing plant damage and how do the supersede the activities of floragin in a plant?  I did a search for

hormones responsible for repairing trauma in plants -> turned up nothing I could find

hormones responsible for repairing damage in plants -> still nothing

then I tried this, cells responsible for repairing damage in plants
http://www.biology-online.org/11/2_plant_tissues.htm
this popped up which is much more in line with the research I have personally done on the subject.  Turns out that is a really great read for anyone interested in the biology of plants.

If you are interested in photoperiodism in plants here's a few sources to peruse at your leisure should you so choose.

http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e30/30c.htm  Good basic outline of the principles involved.

http://books.google.ca/books?id=VqO...a=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=4#PPA3,M1

This is much more in depth but a great read.

http://pcp.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/1/131

This one talks about the effects of red and far red (infrared light) on long dark period flowering plants.

another one
http://resources.metapress.com/pdf-preview.axd?code=w460651566713216&size=largest

and another
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1086578



> If one causes damage to the plant after it's already started it's hormonal alteration into flowering, what happens is a double delay in flowering to the plants full capacity. The hormones that the plant WOULD HAVE made to accelerate flowering are no longer produced in their natural quantity and repair hormones are created instead, to repair the damage of the areas the cutting were taken from.
> 
> This is a proven, unmistakable process that takes place with certainty.



If this is true I am very interested in reading your sources, so if you don't mind to terribly could you point me in the right direction?

If I've totally missed the point please correct me as I'm here to learn and try to take part in educated debate.


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## That crazy vancouver guy (May 27, 2009)

Tater said:
			
		

> Just curious do you have any sources with PhD's that prove what you are saying? How is it fair that you don't have to quote sources but anyone who wishes to refute you needs to before you will believe them? Just curious, don't take this as a personal attack, look at it more like a civil debate between two people.
> 
> What hormones are you talking about? Please be more specific. From the research I have done on the subject plants that rely on a dark period in order to increase the hormone florigen do not react negatively (speaking solely on the hormone required for flower production and not stress induced hermaphrodisim) to physical damage, they keep on keepin on so to say. Since marijuana is a phototropic plant each node is independent of the others as far as its flowering hormone goes.
> 
> ...


 
I agree with my man, Tater, here...

each "node", or "side branch", should be thought of as an independant entity... this is also my deduction... I'd have to get into it in more depth, but that's essentially my thinking also... and each seperate plant can be manipulated independent of the rest of the plant.

...and that's the way it is... cuz I said so....


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## Tater (May 30, 2009)

To bad I was hoping this was going to turn into a good discussion.


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## surreptitious (Dec 7, 2009)

sorry to bump an old thread, but stoneybud you have no response?

again, sorry if this is out of line.  i'm just curious of stoneybud's rebuttle.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 7, 2009)

It would be nice to hear from Old Stoney Bud, but he has not been visiting us lately.....it's a bummer cause he was/is store house of info!


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## surreptitious (Dec 7, 2009)

oh that's too bad.

right now i'm doing a grow, got about 12 plants that are 3 - 4ft tall.  they are still in veg for a few more days.  i'm hitting them with bushmaster (which is supposed to remove the initial flowering stretch).  right now all the new growth on the tops are getting bunched together.  after this i'm going to flush them and then lollipop them because the canopy is so thick that no bud that grows on the bottom  half of the plant will be worth a damn. and will just piss me off when manicuring them.

then i'm going to kick them into flower.  

i guess i've already got my mind made up but have been reading everything i can find on lollipopping.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 7, 2009)

yeah man...I don't know about all the hormones and what not...I don't have a phd or anything, but I have been growing for awhile...and I feel that doing it in veg is the best if you can get it done then, if not at least within the first couple weeks of flower...JMO...I'm not trying to get involved in other peoples debates.  My theory is the least stress the better...good luck with your grow.


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## surreptitious (Dec 7, 2009)

lol, i dont have a Phd either.  i'll keep in mind the least stress the better.  this is my first grow so, we'll see what happens.  i'm looking forward to the next batch of clones to use what i've learned so far.

i've got an AAS (applied associate in science) and it has nothing to do with botany or biology.  after messing with this it makes me think that i should go back to school for it.  it's funny how you can become interested in something once you have a practical application for it.


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## docfishwrinkle (Dec 7, 2009)

i would have to agree w/ tater on this. although i do wonder where stoney is cause 9 gm/watt experiment is intriguing(sp). stoneys probably hangin in the back 40 getting high w/ potus


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 7, 2009)

LOL...doc...I know he got us all hyped up to watch his experiment and then bailed on us!...I really liked the ol guy though, he had alot of knowledge!  I think if anyone could have pulled off that experiment, it would be him...I seriousely don't think he would have gotten 9gr per watt, but I would have liked to see the outcome none the less...and he showed big kahones by publicly announcing what he thought he could achieve!

STONEY BUD!!!  come back man!


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## classic_rocker_287 (Dec 8, 2009)

hmm


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