# droopy leaves, not perky..



## greencowboy (Aug 16, 2009)

Hey all...dont have enough posts to attach a pic yet but wanted to throw this out. My plants are in about the first week on the hydroton. They are still small 4-5 inches and I'm brand new to the hydro thing so I've made some mistakes. Too much liquid- timer set incorrectly. I have the light source on 24 hrs and the pump set for 15 minute increments 6 times a day until they are decent size. There is some yellow leaf I think maybe due to the too much nutrient but nothing else is yellowing any longer. But the leaves are not standing up and looking perky. They are droopy....they don't look all that bad, but not what I've seen in the past in soil. Any help out there? As soon as I get enough posts I can post pics...oh yeah, the ph is around5.5-6. 
Happy Trails...


----------



## StoneyBud (Aug 16, 2009)

There is no limit to how many posts you need to post pics.

There is a size limit. Use JPEGS that are about 100k and you'll do fine.

I really need some pics to tell what you've got going.

It sounds like your plants are still shocked from transplanting. That usually wears off at about 3 days or so, so it may be something else.

What's your heat in the grow area? Have you backed off on the nutes and stopped overfeeding?

What type of lights are you using and how close are they to the plant tops?

Were the plants rooted well before moving them?

Pics please.....!!!!!


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 16, 2009)

Let me try again....I'm on dial up and that doesn't help either...


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 16, 2009)

hey....light is 600watt with cooling fans and on 24 hours, but its hot in there,,,real hot. Nuts are being applied 15 minute intervals 6 times a day....this setup is a metal cabinet...I have a small fan to put in there.....thoughts.....oh yeah....the light source is about 15-18 inches from the top of the plants...


----------



## ozzydiodude (Aug 16, 2009)

You need to bring the temps down to the 70 to 80 degree F range those plants are being cooked


----------



## highman (Aug 16, 2009)

IMO 6 times a day is to much for this size plant, 4 is plenty. Heat is a huge factor 600watts in a metal cabinet spells "oven" to me


----------



## ArtVandolay (Aug 16, 2009)

Perky is nice but I'm partial to droopy


----------



## StoneyBud (Aug 16, 2009)

In my opinion, your plants are starving to death. They should be buried completely in the hydroton, not sitting on top of it.

Remove the plastic from the cubes and put them all the way into the hydroton. If there is room, bury them so you can't even see the cubes.

Hand water them first to get them some water. Just fill a container from your reservoir and slowly pour it through each of your cubes.

The roots are supposed to grow out of all six sides of the rockwool cubes, not just the bottom side.

Once you've done that, they should pick up fine.

6 times a day on an ebb and flow is fine.

These plants may have stressed enough to herm out. Time will tell.


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 16, 2009)

Thanks all...Stoneybud.....should the 6 inch cubes be resting on the bottom of the plastic tub with no hydroton between?


----------



## StoneyBud (Aug 16, 2009)

greencowboy said:
			
		

> Thanks all...Stoneybud.....should the 6 inch cubes be resting on the bottom of the plastic tub with no hydroton between?


If that's what it takes to get the rest of the cube buried in the hydroton with that plastic removed, then yes. If you can leave the cube off the bottom and still get the entire cube buried, then that's better.

Don't feel bad. Sitting the cubes on top like you have is a common mistake by people just learning. It seems to make sense to some.


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 18, 2009)

Hey Stoneybud....appreciate all your help. They all look a little better..one or two may make it. I'm considering starting all over now that I have a mentor. With the stress I've put them through I cant expect much. I will leave what is there incase they snap out of it but will probably start some new seeds very soon. I've been reading some things here about different seed companies...do you have an opinion?


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 18, 2009)

One other thing sb.....right now theres 2 inches of hydroton with the cubes on top of them. If I pick up the cubes with roots already coming out the bottom in order to put them on the tub bottom........ will that hurt them? I don't know how sensitive they are...


----------



## StoneyBud (Aug 18, 2009)

greencowboy said:
			
		

> One other thing sb.....right now there's 2 inches of hydroton with the cubes on top of them. If I pick up the cubes with roots already coming out the bottom in order to put them on the tub bottom........ will that hurt them? I don't know how sensitive they are...


 
The best way to handle them is to take both hands and gently scoop the hydroton and cube out and gently place it into a small bowl of some kind. Do this until you have all of the seedlings out. Then add the rest of your hydroton and push the bowl into the hydroton. Then tip the bowl and GENTY move the hydroton in the bowl into the system so that the top of the cube is about two inches below the top of the hydroton in the system. Some of the roots will tear, but they should recover.

After moving all of the cubes back into the system and burying the cubes, run your first flood. Use plain water for about a week. Then start with a 1/8th strength nutrient solution on a one hour on, two hours off cycle. They may herm out on you, but the only way to know is to let them grow. Keep your lights a little higher than normal until they recover from the transplant shock (about three or four days). You'll know that they're ok when the leaves all pick up and look like they're standing tall again.

Let us all know how it's going.

Good luck!



			
				greencowboy said:
			
		

> Hey Stoneybud....appreciate all your help. They all look a little better..one or two may make it. I'm considering starting all over now that I have a mentor. With the stress I've put them through I cant expect much. I will leave what is there in case they snap out of it but will probably start some new seeds very soon. I've been reading some things here about different seed companies...do you have an opinion?


 
Your welcome. This group is the best on the net for help. There are a LOT of very experienced growers here with lots of crops under their belts.

MJ is a very resilient plant. I've seen it take one hell of a lot of stress and come back with a perfect harvest. The only way to tell is to let your crop continue until it shows herm or not. If it doesn't, then there is no reason to think it won't be a great crop.

I grow nothing but clones now. If I use seeds, I grow host plants first. The entire pack of seeds and then chose the best two females of the group as host plants for future clones.

Browsing the seeds area will help you decide on which of the many seed companies to use. Decide what you want to grow and then post a question about where the best place to buy those seeds is. The group will tell you of their experiences with that company and also advise you on the best place to buy the seeds you're looking for.

Nirvanas "Aurora Indica" is one of the best I've ever grown. It's not a "picky" plant, and it has one fine buzz to it.

That would be a fantastic starter for you. Many growers here have, or are growing it.


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 18, 2009)

Lots of resourse here...it's priceless....thanks all...look forward to talking soon!!


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 18, 2009)

SB...you mentioned the first flood of plain water....same intervals as the solution a week later?


----------



## StoneyBud (Aug 18, 2009)

greencowboy said:
			
		

> SB...you mentioned the first flood of plain water....same intervals as the solution a week later?


Yes, I just noticed that I didn't make that clear at all. 

I've used one hour on, two hours off for many years with all my ebb and flow grows of all types of plants.

I feel that it maximizes all aspects of the fill and drain cycles in regards to nutrient availability and delivery as well as oxygen delivery to the root system. It's my method. If you ask 20 other ebb and flow users, you'll get 50 other methods and timing. You'll develop your own after a few crops.

After the initial period in which the transplant shock will wear off, watch the plants carefully. If they start to droop or look wilted again, start the 1/8th strength nutrients immediately. That would be a sign that the plant is needing the nutrients.

The plain water usage will also help free any salt buildup that might already be in your grow chamber.

I'd sure like to see a pic of your table again after the transplanting is complete.


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 20, 2009)

Hey all and SB....hand watered them for a couple of days...they are perking up but the leaves that were drooping are dieing...is it ok to cut them from the plant? The new top sprouts are coming in fair at this point. My tub isn't deep enough to levely bury the 6" cubes. I bought a few more bags of hydroton and it's not enough. I was thinking of bringing in a few more bags tomorrow and mound the cubes.......but doubt the water will get deep enough to cover the top.......any recomendations on top tubs deep enough to completely bury the cubes?


----------



## StoneyBud (Aug 20, 2009)

I think you'll find that the new growth from these plants will make the trimming of old growth, obvious.

Looking much better!  

My opinion is:

If the individual leaf is damaged beyond 50%, then snip it off.

If less than half of the leaf is damaged, then let it be for now.


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 21, 2009)

One concern right now is that the cubes are sitting on the bottom of the tub right on top of the roots....obviously this is not a problem???


----------



## greencowboy (Aug 26, 2009)

doing much better...still some yellow here and there...tonight will be when I go to nutes instead of straight water......comments?


----------



## Growdude (Aug 27, 2009)

Looking much better, you could bury the cubes in the hydroton looks like you have a bit of room for more, the water doesnt have to reach the very top in fact its best if does not to prevent algae.


----------

