# Vertical light wattage requirements???



## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

Hey all, i recently redid my closet and instead of having a 2x5x5 grow area, with an air cooled 400hps, i redid it into a vertical [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif]light[/FONT] [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif]setup[/FONT] closet.The specs are about 5x4x6, and its more of a [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif]corner cabinet[/FONT] now. I built the one side out a few more ft.  I setup my cool tubed 400mh vertically in the middle, sitting on top of my carbon filter, exhausting right above it thru the attic, via a 440cfm vortex. Im a dwc 5 gal bucket hydro guy, so i have the light surrounded by 5 buckets now, and may up it to 7, after i find out sex and take sum clones.  So, my question is, how many watt light is best for that size cab, being its vertical??? i take it the standard [FONT=verdana,geneva,lucida,'lucida grande',arial,helvetica,sans-serif]sq ft[/FONT] method doesnt really go in this setup. As i said, right now, i have my 400mh in there veggin away, but i also have access to a 1000 watter. With the 400, the temps stay around 78, 6" from the light. I dont know if i need to up it to the 1000 or maybe even stack the 1000 on top of the 400. Any advice would be appreciated, guys. Thanks.


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## phatpharmer (Jun 26, 2009)

I would go with the 1000w for that amount of space, For that space 100000 Lumens is ideal for flowering, that way you can use your 400w to veg! 


                                                   Phatpharmer


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## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

phatpharmer said:
			
		

> I would go with the 1000w for that amount of space, For that space 100000 Lumens is ideal for flowering, that way you can use your 400w to veg!
> 
> 
> Phatpharmer



Well I have both 400 mh and hps bulbs, and both 1000 mh and hps bulbs. Do u think i shud use the 1000 mh to finish off the veg, instead of the 400 mh?  I'm almost at week 3, and going to veg for a total of 5-6 weeks, before flipping?  I've never used a 1000 watter, so i didnt know how much temp diff there'll be going from a 400 to a 1k. Keep in mind, i have a 440 cfm vortex suckin the hot air out.


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## Growdude (Jun 26, 2009)

The more light you can get there without burning them up is going to be best, vegg or bloom.


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## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

Growdude said:
			
		

> The more light you can get there without burning them up is going to be best, vegg or bloom.



So, do u think using both the 1000 and the 400 stacked on top of each other woudn't be too much for that space? That is as long as i can keep the temps down.  And if need be, i'll buy a portable a/c unit also.


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## phatpharmer (Jun 26, 2009)

I agree with growdude go Big with the 1000w, you have 20sq/ft so you'll need at least 60000-70000 Lumens to properly veg that space and the 400w isn't going to give you that! I'd use the 1000W MH to veg and then switch to the 1000w HPS for flowering, but thats not written in stone I've seen peeps use MH for the whole grow and I've also seen HPS the whole grow so to eachy his own I guess.


                                      Phatpharmer


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## Growdude (Jun 26, 2009)

old blue said:
			
		

> So, do u think using both the 1000 and the 400 stacked on top of each other woudn't be too much for that space? That is as long as i can keep the temps down.  And if need be, i'll buy a portable a/c unit also.



If you stack them wont one block the light from the other?


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## Oregon Bob (Jun 26, 2009)

Hi OB!  I run x2 1000 stacked on top of one another, vertical w cool tubes.  I got the skinny for you as it's up & running.    

- Go w the 1000hps if you can accommodate the heat.  @140k x .85 (mean) = 119k lumens avail/avg @ 2' = 30k lumens appx.  This is the worst-case scenario w lumen counts... I run everything surrounding the lights at appx 2' away & use mean running watts as my estimate.  It seems best to over appx the lumen count as you won't be getting the extra 10-15% +/- from reflection as well.  So, even if you are at 3' they will be getting 13k lumens... plenty.    

- The other adv of the 1000 is that you will get a full 4' width all the way around the perimeter... theoretically this is a 4'x4 footprint around the canopy.  Pretty cool **** for the numbers, but don't expect the outrageous theoretical claims of x2+ yield.  They grow differently (you need to grow them differently) & the horiz yield isn't aples to apples in comparison.  It is better though.

I've got a few ideas should you wish to discuss.  Will get a photo that isn't too terribly bad for you to consider... later today, in a few hours.  Best brah!


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## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

Here are a few pics i took today, when the light was off, to show what i'm talking about with this setup.


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## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

Oregon Bob said:
			
		

> Hi OB!  I run x2 1000 stacked on top of one another, vertical w cool tubes.  I got the skinny for you as it's up & running.
> 
> - Go w the 1000hps if you can accommodate the heat.  @140k x .85 (mean) = 119k lumens avail/avg @ 2' = 30k lumens appx.  This is the worst-case scenario w lumen counts... I run everything surrounding the lights at appx 2' away & use mean running watts as my estimate.  It seems best to over appx the lumen count as you will be getting the extra 10-15% from reflection as well.  So, even if you are at 3' they will be getting 13k lumens... plenty.
> 
> ...



Hey Bob, thanks for the advise. I'm gonna try the 1000 and see how the heat is. Yeah, i'd love to talk more about this type of setup with u.  My problem is probably going to be spacing from the light tho.  Because of the limit size of the cab, when the light is placed in the middle, i'm probably only gonna have about 1' between the light and the plants all the way around.  I was thinking of building a chicken wire cage around the light at 8-12" away, so the plants cant grow into the light and burn.  I'm still going to turn each plant 1/4 turn a day, throughout the whole grow, to even it out. They seem to really want to grow towards the light.  Thanks again everyone.


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## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

I just got an idea.  I was reading how at 1' away, a 600w puts out @115,000 lumens and at the same distance a 1000w puts out 130,000-140,000 lumens.  Since i only have that 1' buffer around my light, would i be better to buy a 600w, instead of using the 1000, to help with heat issues?  Also, i could stack the 600 on top of my existing 400, to get a combined 1000w, and probably have less heat issues than using a 1000 watter.  Does that theory sound correct and more feasible for my grow space???  Btw, i dont have the 1k yet, i was going to buy it off a buddy that has a few  new ones layin around, so its no big deal to buy a 600 instead.


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## Oregon Bob (Jun 26, 2009)

OB, funny just realized the same, anyway... do you know how the private albums work?  I'm new here so don't know how to grant you access, if this is even possible...?

Yeah, the 6's are perfectly fine, especially so close to the light.  Reason I suggust 1000's is the width/canopy penetration as you can accomplish much more vertically this way.  Another benefit is that lumen use is cumulative.  So, if you run the 600+400 you will be getting lumens from both, though the distances will be different.  I did all the math a few years ago & it's not too far from correct, based on experiences...

Like the look of room, though a little dark to make out.  Get the stretch wrap used for packing (walmart/uhaul carry them) that comes in a hand roll.  This stuff is pretty cool to wrap around the connectors for tubing as makes it close to air tight, especially with multiple layers.  Keeps stray odors from entering into your vent/exhaust system.  

Let me know on the pics.  ****, this one should be fine so here you go:


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## Oregon Bob (Jun 26, 2009)

Some seeders on the bottom, but you get the gist.  those walls are on casters so they can be retracted to & fro the lights... run them from 3' to 2' away.  The individual levels can be moved to accommodate differing size plants/styles.  This pic had all the levels still hooked up w seeds on the floor.  Pic from an in-between redesign, but the principle is still intact.

also, if you are in single pots, the rotation of 180 every day is fine.  Would suggest you put a flat mesh screen through the center of the pot & affix such that you can train your plants to grow up, wide, & flat- no middle belly of the plant.  A vertical scrog, if you will.  Then you just rotate 1 flat side to the next flat side every day.  The nugs will be nice all the way around, top to bottom.  Best brah.


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## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

Damn, that's one hell of a setup u got there. I'm just gonna stick with 5-7 single 5 gal buckets on the floor tho.  I dont wanna get too fancy like urs. I like the idea of the flat vertical screen too. Altho the strain im currently growing is Vertigo, from VISC, its a cross between blackberry and fuckin incredible, and is almost 100% indica.  Since i'm doing dwc, im not sure how i wud affix the screen to the buckets tho, since im using hydroton.


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## old blue (Jun 26, 2009)

Oregon Bob said:
			
		

> OB, funny just realized the same, anyway... do you know how the private albums work?  I'm new here so don't know how to grant you access, if this is even possible...?
> 
> Yeah, the 6's are perfectly fine, especially so close to the light.  Reason I suggust 1000's is the width/canopy penetration as you can accomplish much more vertically this way.  Another benefit is that lumen use is cumulative.  So, if you run the 600+400 you will be getting lumens from both, though the distances will be different.  I did all the math a few years ago & it's not too far from correct, based on experiences...
> 
> ...



And i have no idea how private albums work here.


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## Oregon Bob (Jun 26, 2009)

That pic makes it look outrageous, but it is older & it really isn't.  Was going to take a recent shot, just missed the window earlier today... sorry bout that.

Going vertical, you have many options, especially if willing to build your own.  The screen shouldn't be a problem... would use the green coated mesh @ hdepot w the 1.25" squares, or so.  Run it flat at appx 2'wide x 3'h.  Would use 2 4' rods/stakes at 180d opposite to the outside of your buckets... perhaps the shrink wrap will be sufficient to affix w multiple layers... it really should.  Affix the mesh to the two side support rods & then simply train (lst) the shoots to whichever pattern you so desire.   Should be great.  An old timer from BC used to do this but with a corridor full of lights... walkin between two giant walls of green (the wog).  Pretty cool to see.


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## Oregon Bob (Jun 26, 2009)

Took that down... it did look pretty hard core & that's not what it's about, so...  We can chat through pm's if want to go into details.  It looks pretty damn good though, just offerin some insights.  best brah!


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## Jake2635 (Jun 27, 2009)

I'm trying to start growing some myself but never growed by lighting, before, so what lighting am I looking for,and can I use a light for the whole grow or what??????????Please,any help I'll be greatful


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## old blue (Jun 28, 2009)

Hey Bob, in the v-scrog setup i'm going to try, how wud it be best to situate the lights? Shud the 600 be on top, and 400 be underneath it, or vice versa?  And i'm guessing its best to have the both bulbs butted up to one another, so it spreads the light up and down more.  I'm really excited to experiment with the vertical screen.  When do u think i shud incorporate them? Today my babies are exactly 3 weeks old, and about 5" tall, with 5-7 nodes already.  Btw, i went to HomeDePOT yesterday to check out the screenage, and u gotta buy a huge roll of it for like $50. That kinda sucks, but oh well, it'll be fun. I'm wondering if chicken wire would do the trick, or are the holes too small in ur opinion?  And i found sum all thread 1/4 3ft rod, that i'm gonna drill into my netlids and bolt on, to make it easy to change out the buckets every other week. :hubba:

Also, out of the 5 babies i have growing, i'm gonna v-scrog which ever ones are fem out of those, and in the meantime, take sum clones in a week or so, and once the big ones show sex, chop the boys, and fill in the rest of the space in the cab with 2 week vegged clones, to max out my yield.  I try to beat my last yield each time. lol.


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## old blue (Jun 28, 2009)

Jake2635 said:
			
		

> I'm trying to start growing some myself but never growed by lighting, before, so what lighting am I looking for,and can I use a light for the whole grow or what??????????Please,any help I'll be greatful



Hey Jake, welcome to the journey of becoming a green thumb.  It's addicting, but oh so rewarding.  Well, to answer ur question better, let's start by "where are u going to grow? what's the dimensions of ur space? attic? closet? basement?


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