# LED light



## Sentenced

Hi gang,

My buddy told me i should stop using my hps lamps as they are getting real hot.they are expensive and they are high on electricity.

he told me he is using this:

http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...w-light-for-hydroponic/121917_1690878167.html

for both growing and flowering stage, he siad there is no heat nor high on electricity.

what do you guys think?
is this the future?

should i buy this?

thank you!


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## yooper420

Just one of these is not near enough to grow weed. Yes, LED lights are the future of growing. I use two 300 watt LED`s to cover 21 sq. ft. Think this light you have is only 12 watt.


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## Sentenced

what about if ill buy 2 of those?

or maybe you can direct me to a store that sells your lamps?


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## Dr. Green Fang

Here's a "cheaper"  fixture you can get, that is still quality. 

http://www.mars-hydro.com/led-grow-light/mars-ii-series


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## Sentenced

Will that lamp work for "growing" and flowering? 

thanks!


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## yooper420

You will need a minimum of 30 watts per sq. ft. Now some sources say a minimum of 90 watts per sq. ft. Either way you would need many of these.  The light you have is a spotlight, you need a fixture made for growing. Only thing to remember is that ... Good LED`s are not cheap and cheap LED`s are not good. Many LED lights out there. Google ...LED grow lights.


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## Dr. Green Fang

Sentenced said:


> Will that lamp work for "growing" and flowering?
> 
> thanks!



Yes, it is a "full spectrum" light, good for both :aok: 



yooper420 said:


> You will need a minimum of 30 watts per sq. ft. Now some sources say a minimum of 90 watts per sq. ft. Either way you would need many of these.  The light you have is a spotlight, you need a fixture made for growing. Only thing to remember is that ... Good LED`s are not cheap and cheap LED`s are not good. Many LED lights out there. Google ...LED grow lights.



I wouldn't go lower than 50w per sq/ft, but I believe PJ suggests 90w per sq/ft. 

Many wonderful light options along with *absolute* rip offs. Keep doing research before pulling any triggers! :aok:


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## Grower13

DGF....... would the watts per sqft recommendation of 50 to 90 watts per sqft be referring to the lights total output or the pulling watts of the light?


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## Rosebud

I am thinking total output. 90 watts per square foot.


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## P Jammers

It is very important to always remember when talking LED grow lights, we should always try and talk draw power.

How many watts a diode is rated is irrelevant. That said, "most" companies feed off the ignorance of people thinking they are getting a 600 watt light if it says it is 600 watts. Most of the time, or lets say that a light using 600 watts called a 600 is normally around 350 watts or there abouts. 

After several years, some companies actually list draw power. 

I'd still suggest to anyone about to invest, to get a light and test it upon arrival to make sure it is what it says it is.

May be the best 20 you ever spent:
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/P3-P4400-Electricity-Usage-Monitor/dp/B00009MDBU/ref=sr_1_sc_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1427725878&sr=8-1-spell&keywords=killiwat+meter[/ame]


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## Gaiant

You might also want to consider the weight of the LED fixture?  I purchased a 750 actual a while back and the dang thing was too heavy because of the heat sink. The LED fixture weighed 52 lbs which was not practical for me to setup and hang in my tent alone or move it from point A to B so I returned the light.


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## MR1

I am running 27 watts per square foot, a little low but I am getting buy. I can't imagine what it would look like in there with 90 watts per square foot.


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## Joe420Camel

.

MUAHAhahaaaa....

That's WITH the FLASH!

375w DRAW (just checked) 
22" x 26" space

:48: 

View attachment PICT1060.jpg


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## Grower13

4 of the 700  watt Mars II hanging over my 3x3 eb table in my 4x4 room would give me the 90 draw watts per sqft........... gives me a hundred pounds of lights hanging over my plants at a cost of $1100.00 give or take a dollar. ........ seems like a heck of a lot of led lights.


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## Kraven

Mars II LED Grow Light 900W looks good. PJ if you were gonna buy a LED light for a 4x4 area which one would you buy, and why?


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## Dr. Green Fang

Kravenhead said:


> Mars II LED Grow Light 900W looks good. PJ if you were gonna buy a LED light for a 4x4 area which one would you buy, and why?




He would buy 4x Mars II 400w fixtures. More fixtures, with less watts is the way to go. Large fixtures aren't are good as many smaller ones.


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## Kraven

Ahh, I have not even began doing research on LED's, just know thats the next logical step for me.


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## P Jammers

MR1 said:


> I am running 27 watts per square foot, a little low but I am getting buy. I can't imagine what it would look like in there with 90 watts per square foot.



Keeping it real the 90 watt number is for sure the high side of things and crush HPS square foot for square foot. Most of my areas are at 60 watts PSF range and do at and above 1GPW.



Joe420Camel said:


> .
> 
> MUAHAhahaaaa....
> 
> That's WITH the FLASH!
> 
> 375w DRAW (just checked)
> 22" x 26" space
> 
> :48:



You should crush it if you can keep the heat down and them properly fed.  Please understand at that wattage and size things will change real fast if you are out of range, so keep an extra close eye on your plant and look at it under some natural light each day. Magnesium issues are what I normally see happen first if not addressed.



Grower13 said:


> 4 of the 700  watt Mars II hanging over my 3x3 eb table in my 4x4 room would give me the 90 draw watts per sqft........... gives me a hundred pounds of lights hanging over my plants at a cost of $1100.00 give or take a dollar. ........ seems like a heck of a lot of led lights.



The 90 watts per square foot that everyone is starting to use is a little misleading, so please let me clarify. Lets say you have an area to grow in like a master bed closet that is 5 x 5 but you are only growing one plant. To allow for loss of light you need to be at around 90 watts per square foot, and what I had also previously stated is that one would equal of better HPS at twice the wattage. In other words, that .5 GPW that most achieve at 1000 watts of HPS can now be achieved at 500 watts of LED tech.

If you have more of an area to light and will be using several fixtures you really only need about 60 watts PSF, due to reflection and the overlapping of lights with no wasted coverage.

I'd rather people throw around the 60 watts PSF over 90 TBH.

I'd put 540 watts of power over that 3x3 and call it a day. You should kill it with the right strain.



Kravenhead said:


> Mars II LED Grow Light 900W looks good. PJ if you were gonna buy a LED light for a 4x4 area which one would you buy, and why?


I would just build 4 of my 180's and call it a day. I now engineer my own lights and have them made.



Dr. Green Fang said:


> He would buy 4x Mars II 400w fixtures. More fixtures, with less watts is the way to go. Large fixtures aren't are good as many smaller ones.


That's what I would suggest to others yes. If I was to meet a hotdog like myself that likes to play with tech and take chances I have a new light design done on a COB style light rated at 460 watts with a new style lens to cover some serious area. I hope to be running some tests in the next few months and see if it is worth marketing. There's just no way to compete and most don't want to spend the kind of coin it takes to build a light of this nature.



Kravenhead said:


> Ahh, I have not even began doing research on LED's, just know thats the next logical step for me.



I started using the tech about 6 years ago and still am learning all the time. It isn't HPS growing for sure.


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## Joe420Camel

p jammers said:


> you should crush it if you can keep the heat down and them properly fed. Please understand at that wattage and size things will change real fast if you are out of range, so keep an extra close eye on your plant and look at it under some natural light each day. Magnesium issues are what i normally see happen first if not addressed.
> 
> 
> the 90 watts per square foot that everyone is starting to use is a little misleading, so please let me clarify.
> -snip-
> i'd rather people throw around the 60 watts psf over 90 tbh.



This light is overkill in my little stealth cabinet space but @ that price, I couldn't turn it down. 
(bought out both they had @ the time)

I will be using this light (plus possibly a Sol2) in a 3x3 tent in the near future.

You nailed the deficiency I struggled with on my virgin grow with that light.
(Magnesium)
And I bleached the very tip-top of the main cola




P Jammers said:


> If I was to meet a hotdog like myself that likes to play with tech and take chances I have a new light design done on a COB style light rated at 460 watts with a new style lens to cover some serious area. I hope to be running some tests in the next few months and see if it is worth marketing. There's just no way to compete and most don't want to spend the kind of coin it takes to build a light of this nature.



Do you work with about the same size ... unit (for lack of a better term) as the other COB's
I have these Apollo's and also a few Sol lights and any of the DIY arrays I've seen:
such as http://www.dhgate.com/product/6pcs-.../216305282.html?recinfo=1,5,5#cppd-5-5|null:5
are about that same size.

I still live in a backwards state and have to hide all this 
once I can play "out in the open"... maybe we need to chat PJ

:48:
here is (too big) a hint as to where I'm going with this... 

View attachment cpuwatercooling.jpg


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## P Jammers

Yeah I had tossed around the idea of water cooling, but I am pretty sure there will be solid state stuff that actually works very shortly.

Right now coatings are starting to be used which dissipate heat more efficiently. LED's will just keep getting better and better as time goes by now that's for sure.


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## Joe420Camel

water cooling can easily get the (LED produced, non radiant) heat 100% OUTSIDE  of the grow space...

As the legal side of MJ continues and stealth becomes less of an issue, slim/small fixtures aren't as useful but even in a large scale, a chiller unit(s) could cool ALL the lights up on the roof outside the warehouse.

Until LED's run @ what, 75-80F, heat will need to be dealt with.

:48:



edit: 
a test of Dr. Green Fang's use of these LED glasses
the temp probe and fan plastic are "WHITE"
2nd
not bad?  on "film" these glasses work quite well, on ME, they don't.
:stoned: 

View attachment PICT1271.jpg


View attachment PICT1270.jpg


View attachment PICT1273.jpg


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## Dr. Green Fang

>



Yep, looks like 100% equalization in this one. In your other two, it looks dark, but that's because of the composition of the photo. 

Sorry the shades don't work for your eyes, but other factors do come into play. Color blindness, poor vision, etc. 

Stuff is lookin' good Joe :aok:


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## Sentenced

thanks you guys for your input!

can you please provide links (ebay,aliexpress) 
for a recommended lamps to buy?

i dont want to buy this --> http://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...w-light-for-hydroponic/121917_1690878167.html

if i could get much better for like 20$-30$


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## Dr. Green Fang

:rofl: 

You can not get anything feasible for that price. :aok:


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## Sentenced

i don't mind spending more (or bug couple of cheap ones)

whats your recommendation


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## Dr. Green Fang

I wouldn't recommend anything "lesser" than this.. and I know this isn't what you want to hear. 

This is about 2000% higher than your.. twenty doll hairs bulb.  :aok: 

http://www.mars-hydro.com/mars-ii-led-grow-light-400w.html


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## Sentenced

this unit is the only thing i need?

like, it will do for start (clone\seed) growing, and flowering?

no need for anything ells?


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## Dr. Green Fang

Correct! Keep seedlings, cuttings etc far from full spectrum, but yes.. MJ loves full spectrum for all stages. Keep a distance of I believe 24" - 36" during veg, and around 18" for flowering. :aok: 

Also, you'll want a fan and carbon scrubber (for smell), but yes.. this is basically all you need.


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## Sentenced

"all i need" i meant in terms of lightining 


but thank you very much.

small question tho, if its led and way less produce heat

why not make the plants as close as i can to them?


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## Dr. Green Fang

Because it has to do with spectrum and intensity. Mostly spectrum. 

If you put the light against a white wall, and move from 10" off the wall.. out to 24" off the wall... take note of how the spectrum looks to your eyes. Your eyes do not pick up the spectrum like a plant does, but you can get a general idea this way. 

Then, there's intensity. Diodes from LED's are generally pointed EXCEEDINGLY straight down!  HPS / CFL / T5's (etc) "splash" loads of light into the entire space, engulfing it. You can get these closer, as long as heat is kept in check, than LED's. 
The "hand check" doesn't apply to LED's. I've gotten mine to within 10" of the plants for the end weeks of flowering, with no issues at all.. but Mars lights certainly aren't the MOST powerful of led fixtures on the market. But, they are the best "bang for your buck" you can get, hands down. 

Hope this helps  Look up PAR and Spectrum and read up on it :aok:


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## Sentenced

I thank you very much!

rock on!


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## Dr. Green Fang

Cheers  

To see those exact Mars lights in action, check out my link below in my sig; "The Dr's Office" 

I have 8 of those fixtures, between 2 tents :aok:


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## MR1

Mars 2 lights are also available custom made . If you want more powerful lights you can can request higher output drivers to be installed. Remember the higher you drive led's the shorter lifespan they have.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Sentenced said:


> this unit is the only thing i need?
> 
> like, it will do for start (clone\seed) growing, and flowering?
> 
> no need for anything ells?


 
You do understand that a single light like that will only do a small space?  How big a space are you talking about?


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## techrons78

Im doing an experiment right now I have 630 draw got them at about 8 inches...they are doing great figure closer more par more lumens and when I add in the illuminator 350 ill be able to cover my 4x4 area ...


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## Locked

If you put the LED lights down too close you don't get the proper mix and spectrum.


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## techrons78

Hamster Lewis said:


> If you put the LED lights down too close you don't get the proper mix and spectrum.



Yea I wondered about that...wonder whats the lowest I can go..


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## yooper420

I keep mine 18"-24" away. That being said, my plants have got within a foot and faired OK. Do believe other LED`s are slightly different, due to different spectrum`s and intensities.


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## yooper420

The Method7 glasses that I have work great. My LED`s have a veg and a flower switch, they work best with both switches on (blue spectrum and red spectrum).


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## techrons78

yooper420 said:


> I keep mine 18"-24" away. That being said, my plants have got within a foot and faired OK. Do believe other LED`s are slightly different, due to different spectrum`s and intensities.



Yea kind says best is @ 12 inches....I am loving my illuminator pro...put those on the plants under 4  la blanka..i murded 5 ...my ph meter was 2.7 off....was soo pissed


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## Sentenced

Thanks guys for all the help

after working a lot of time with HPS 600w

I want to try the http://www.mars-hydro.com/mars-ii-led-grow-light-700w.html

will that be normal 700w? (Draw Power:300W~380W) what ever that say?


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## Dr. Green Fang

I would replace your 600, with 2 - 4 of the Mars II 400's, depending on the size space you're working with. If you're in a 4x4 area, it's 4x Mars II 400's hands down :aok:


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## Sentenced

2 - 4 of the Mars II 400's???? never mind that's super expensive,

if i have one 600W why wound i change for a cuple of 400w and not one 700w?

and why buy 2 and not one?


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## Dr. Green Fang

lol... I thought I've said in this post already.. going to go back and see if I did, and post again. One moment


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## Dr. Green Fang

Start re-reading your own thread, from post #15 and on :aok:


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## Sentenced

I did, 
but ill look again


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## Dr. Green Fang

What was your size space? Is it 4x4 or more? If so, your 600 wasn't enough lumens (or should I say "proper lumens") for the space. 1,000 is  optimal, or two 600's (which is what I used to have in each of mine). 

The 700w fixture is $290

The 400w fixture is $180, since you'd get a discount when you buy 2 or more fixtures. That's $360. So, $70 more for a more versatile foot print, better overlapping spectrum and heck, if one breaks, as least you have the OTHER one until you rectify the situation. Also, much better heat dispersion!


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## The Hemp Goddess

Sentenced said:


> 2 - 4 of the Mars II 400's???? never mind that's super expensive,
> 
> if i have one 600W why wound i change for a cuple of 400w and not one 700w?
> 
> and why buy 2 and not one?


 
Yes, LEDs are expensive....and I got very confused too when trying to figure out exactly what I really did need.  Saying that you need 60W per sq ft and then saying that you can run half as much wattage was contradictory to me--none of us run 120W of HPS per sq ft.  So if I was running 1000W of HPS I should be able to run 500W of LED.  I have a long narrow space--3 x 6.5.  I opted for 2 lights and this is my first go with them.  I have a Mars II 700W and an Apollo Purple Sun 768W.  So, I have replaced a 1000W HPS with about 700W (actual draw) of LEDs.  We will see how I do...  

Keep in mind that the lights do not run at full wattage.  I think that someone said that the Mars II 700W tested at 330 working watts.  So, it would take one MarsII 700W to replace 1 600W HPS (approximately).  As DGF said, one 600W in 16 sq ft is underlit--however 2 is a bit overlit.  You do get to a point where more light does not mean more bud.  The plants are only able to utilize so much light.  I personally found that I did not get any better growth with 2 600W than I did with a single 1000W in my closets.   

I seem to remember that you said you had a fairly large space?   I cannot remember the exact dimensions right now, but I think you have room to experiment and play and see how you like LEDs.  You might want to do something like this:  Purchase 1 700W Mars II or 2 400W Mars II and use one (or more) of your 600w HPS along with it.  LEDs are fairly directional so the light does not spread that far.  It is simple to make dividers out of PVC and panda film if you wanted to divide off spaces.  I do believe that LEDs will be the light of the future.  But they do keep getting better and cheaper as all electronic devices do.


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## Dr. Green Fang

> however 2 is a bit overlit



No no no  I ran 2 in each of my tents for awhile. Yes, you can be overlit but this wasn't really that case :aok:

*edit* 
I read further along your post, and yes... it's "non-needed extra light" I agree there.


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## Sentenced

Thanks guy!

i was gonna use this tent with it --> http://www.mars-hydro.com/grow-tent-3-2-3-2-5-9.html

thanks a lot for all the info, this change got my so confused


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## The Hemp Goddess

I would be for getting a taller tent if you could.  LEDs need to be a ways away from the canopy.  I think that Mars II lights are recommended at 18-24" from the canopy.  Aso, the way that the LED hangers are, it makes them hard to hang close to the roof or ceiling.

DGF--you actually have 4.5 x 4.5 tents don't you--20.25 sq ft.  I actually only use about 5-5.5' of my 6.5 space most of the time.  It could be that your tent with its 1200W and my closet with its 1000W were getting almost the same lumens per sq ft.  Though I have the entire 6.5 space in use with the 2 LEDs as I am using about 700W.


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## Dr. Green Fang

Ahhh yes, you're correct THG. :aok: They are 4.5x4.5 and is comparable to 1000 in 4x4 I agree... good call


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## Dr. Green Fang

With that said.. .I'd still rock 4x Mars II 400's in even a 4x4


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## The Hemp Goddess

Oh, I agree.   I was more for getting a feel for how light light per sq ft compared with your 4 400w and my 700w and 786 w.  For a square configuration, 4 smaller light would be better than 1-2 larger ones.


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## astrobud

i have two of these in a 4x5 room and they do a great job, my last full led run was one of my best in 7 years.  http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-6-Band-2.0-270w-Bloom-Pro-LED-Grow-Light#  i also use a small ufo type hanging down the side to get the lower branchs and fill in light down low . this replaces my 1000 watt setup


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## techrons78

P Jammers said:


> Yeah I had tossed around the idea of water cooling, but I am pretty sure there will be solid state stuff that actually works very shortly.
> 
> Right now coatings are starting to be used which dissipate heat more efficiently. LED's will just keep getting better and better as time goes by now that's for sure.



Yes hioptix is running a water and coolant  additive radiotor giving the led chips 200,000 hour life .


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