# Need help ASAP



## Happyfarmer (May 29, 2015)

Hey people. 

My plants are looking really shitty - First i will give you a little background about my soil so you may be able to figure it out.

The soil i'm growing in used to be a lawn. The soil was very poor (never fertilized)
So last year i put 2kg/m2 dolomite lime and 1 kg composted chicken manoure (3-1-2) into the ground and cultivated it. The plants the first year was huge, although showing some signs of deficit towards the late bloom. But not too bad.
About 6 months ago i used the same amount of composted chicken manoure but also added some kelp meal which i spread "lightly" Just throwing it around with my hand.

About a month ago i planted my cuttings (looking really good) which had been indoors for about a month under 600w HID's
Then disaster struck and the frost came. The week after it all looked like ****. Alot died and so on. Luckily i had extras. so i could replace some of them. But the ones that survived and even to new ones are looking like ****. The new shoots are extremely pale/yellowish. And i dont get it. The earth should have alot of nutrients. I am even using i "drip-system" to fertilize. I use a 4-1-6 + micro fertilizer.
One can clearly see on the pictures the new growth is super pale compared to the older leaves (from when they were inside) To me it looks like some sort of immobile deficit. But it doesnt make sense to me with all the nutrients in the ground... i Just don't get it.
Sorry for the long post. Here are some pictures. Help wil be MUCH appreciated. Have alot of plants and as of now 2/3 of it all is ****. All the unwanted plants (weeds etc) are growing all fine lol ... Sorry for the long post

EDIT: Forgot, also gave a small amount of bloodmeal. Just spread out by hand.

Some pics. 

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## Rosebud (May 29, 2015)

Well, shoot that isn't looking good at all but you already know that.

My first thought is you have no idea what is in the soil. You need a soil test to know what nutrients you need and even more important what you do not need. 

Second of all you need to pull all the vegetation out of there so the plant isn't competing for food.

I guess at this point i would steer you to a fertilizer or nutrients made for marijuana.

looks like she is starving for N to me... If i were you and you want to get a good crop i would dig those up, put them in good soil, like Fox Farm, get your soil tested and plant back in the ground after adding the right amendments. 

You have your work cut out for you if you want these to live.  Good luck.


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## Happyfarmer (May 29, 2015)

Thx for your answer. 

The problem is the amount of plants. Taking them up is not an option at this point. 
Regarding the N i don't think it's that. Because it's only on the top shoots. N should be mobile so it would take nutrients from older leaves, if im not mistaken. 
Getting the soil tested. How does that work, who would you be sending it to?


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## Grower13 (May 29, 2015)

sulfur lockout.........  soil ph is to low....... add lime


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## Locked (May 29, 2015)

Grower13 said:


> sulfur lockout.........  soil ph is to low



:goodposting:


I would second that.  






Happyfarmer said:


> The earth should have alot of nutrients



Not necessarily.  Indoor grows have the advantage of us providing the right amount and ratio of nutrients and the proper PH if we are using chemical Nutrients and a healthy Micro Herd if growing Organic. You outdoor soil might have neither of those things going for it.  If I grew outside and I sure wish I could, the one thing I would do for sure is use a Super Soil and grow Organic.


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## Happyfarmer (May 30, 2015)

Ph too low? i added 2kg dolomite lime per m2 last year so it couldn't possibly be that?

*Hamster lewis* - Well the point is to get YOUR soil super by adding the right amounts which in my opinion i have done. But obviously something isn't right.
The nutrients i have given are organic  - kelp meal, blood meal, chicken manoure, dolomite lime, All organic compounds which should give the earth a rich micro bacterial life. So the earth should have alot of nutrinets, taking into account all the things i've been feeding it. But as i said. Something just isnt right.


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## WeedHopper (May 30, 2015)

Get a soil test kit from Lowes and check your soil. The test kit will test your N,P,K,and PH. I use them for my Garden,,and they work great. Very easy to use. They look like there getting to much of something and not enough of another.
Also i think i see some Spider Mite Damage.


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## Rosebud (May 30, 2015)

When you are adding amendments, you don't just dump stuff in.  

How did you add these things. In a big mixer and then ?


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 30, 2015)

Happyfarmer said:


> Thx for your answer.
> 
> The problem is the amount of plants. Taking them up is not an option at this point.
> Regarding the N i don't think it's that. Because it's only on the top shoots. N should be mobile so it would take nutrients from older leaves, if im not mistaken.
> Getting the soil tested. How does that work, who would you be sending it to?


 
You are going to be a lot better off with a few plants that are planted in a good medium than you are a whole bunch that you can not take care of properly.  I don't know if you have every grown before, but it sounds like you haven't.  I do not see cannabis ever being a crop that  farmers can plant acres of---each plant takes individual care.  If you have too many to replant into good soil, you have too many.  Do not plant more than you can reasonably take care of and in the right manner.  It is critical to start with a good medium --this is the place the roots live.  Unfortunately, little else is going to have positive results if you have poor soil.  I see no alternative but amending the soil.


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## kaotik (May 30, 2015)

the only time i've had the really pale looking new growth like that, was when i used to much lime.
not saying that's your problem.. i honestly don't know. 
the soil tester might be the best route.


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## WeedHopper (May 30, 2015)

The test kit will tell you what you need to know i bet. Like i said,,Lowes or Home Depot carries these test kits. Thats probably the 1st place to start.


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## Locked (May 30, 2015)

Happyfarmer said:


> *Hamster lewis* - Well the point is to get YOUR soil super by adding the right amounts which in my opinion i have done. But obviously something isn't right.
> The nutrients i have given are organic  - kelp meal, blood meal, chicken manoure, dolomite lime, All organic compounds which should give the earth a rich micro bacterial life. So the earth should have alot of nutrinets, taking into account all the things i've been feeding it. But as i said. Something just isnt right.




I am talking about an actual Super Soil that get's left to cook for a while before it is even ready to use.  Like this>>>>http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=679362&postcount=61

Adding some amendments to soil is okay but it seems to have left your plants wanting for something.


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## Happyfarmer (May 30, 2015)

kaotik said:


> the only time i've had the really pale looking new growth like that, was when i used to much lime.
> not saying that's your problem.. i honestly don't know.
> the soil tester might be the best route.



What did you do about your lime problem?


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## Happyfarmer (May 30, 2015)

I have read some more about lime and have found that adding lime whilst fertilizing at the same time isnt so good. I had a basic misunderstanding about that. So the problem is probably too much lime in the ground. Causing a lockout. 

Can ppl agree with me on that? I will buy a testing kit (my Ph meter is broken : / ) 
So now what would be the solution? we are talking about 700 m2 that has gotten this treament. So it's a pretty epic disaster for me.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 30, 2015)

I am confused now.  In post 1 you said:  "The soil i'm growing in used to be a lawn. The soil was very poor (never fertilized)
So last year i put 2kg/m2 dolomite lime and 1 kg composted chicken manoure (3-1-2) into the ground and cultivated it.....About 6 months ago i used the same amount of composted chicken manoure but also added some kelp meal which i spread "lightly" Just throwing it around with my hand..."

That is a small amount of nutrients for 2 cubic meters and it was a year ago.  Nitrogen goes away fast.  Outdoor soil is usually not suitable to plant in without amending it.  Exactly what it needs is an individual thing, but it does need good drainage.  And you really have a lot of other vegetation competing for the food.  I doubt that there is much in the soil in the way of nutrients with that much grass and other egetation.   

Later in the same post you indicated that you are using a drip fertilizer system?  " I am even using i "drip-system" to fertilize. I use a 4-1-6 + micro fertilizer."

If the fertilizer you are using is not 100% organic, it is either inhibiting or killing the microbes (if there are any left after 6 months) that are in the soil.


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## WeedHopper (May 30, 2015)

THG knows hef stuff Little Brother.


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## Happyfarmer (May 31, 2015)

Thx for answers people

THG it's 1 kg per square meter. And i also put in the same amount in this year. + The fertilizer i used during last year.

I know i have made mistakes, which people are pointing out too. But i need a solution. I get will a test kit so i can test the soil Ph, NPK etc. Once i have the result i will post them and then we can make a plan about what happens next. 

Does this make sense


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## WeedHopper (May 31, 2015)

The test kit will tell you if it needs more of one thing or less of the other,,or if your PH is off. If your PH is not correct,,nither will your nute uptake be correct. Good place to start.


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## Happyfarmer (May 31, 2015)

Okay i have ordered the test kit now. And then we will see.

But if it is indeed the amount of lime that is the problem. Which i can only think it is given the amount it has got. Then what will be my approach? from what i read sulfer fertilizer seems to be the only way? Either way the ph should be max 7 since  dolomite lime is only 7ph. I know theres different types of lime. but Dolomite lime which is the one i have given should be 7.


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## WeedHopper (Jun 1, 2015)

Id be digging it up ,cleaning all the soil i could off the roots with water and putting it in some good soil.


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## Happyfarmer (Jun 3, 2015)

WeedHopper said:


> Id be digging it up ,cleaning all the soil i could off the roots with water and putting it in some good soil.



The problem is that it's 700 square meters. 

If the problem is the lime causing a lockout, Then what would happen if i just keep fertilizing? like i would normally. Will it make it worse? or will it be 'ok'


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## Rosebud (Jun 3, 2015)

I don't do anything but organic, but if these folks think you have lockout no amount of fertilizer will help.


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## WeedHopper (Jun 3, 2015)

I have saved plants that friends have given me ''''that they screwed up'''''''''by removing them from there pots or ground,,,and soaking'''' and ''''removing all the nasty *** soil snd crap on the roots and repotting them in good clean soil,,watering and allot of TLC. Just fixed a Geranium a couple days ago,,as i have other plants,,including Weed. IF its not DEAD,,it can be fixed.


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## Rosebud (Jun 3, 2015)

I did the same WH with a small pot plant that the flying ants took over. Took it out of the pot rinsed the roots replanted... In the garden outdoors i have dug down in the soil all around the root zone and put all new soil in.. They responded within a week.


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## WeedHopper (Jun 3, 2015)

Thats what im talking about Rose. Ive done it many many times.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 4, 2015)

I do not believe that you have lockout due to too much lime.  The bottom line is that 2 kg per cubic meter is not that much and lime does get depleted.  Just as an example, super soil uses 1 cup of lime per cubic foot of soil.  A cubic meter is over 35 cubic feet, so if you did not use over 35 cups of lime in your mixture, you do not have too much lime.  

This is from your first post:  "...The soil i'm growing in used to be a lawn. The soil was very poor (never fertilized)
So last year i put 2kg/m2 dolomite lime and 1 kg composted chicken manoure (3-1-2) into the ground and cultivated it. The plants the first year was huge, although showing some signs of deficit towards the late bloom. But not too bad...."

You simply did not add that much to the soil, it was quite a while ago, and you have so much competing vegetation around that I believe that your plants have to just be starving.   Things you put in the soil.  Anything you put in 6 months ago has been used up by the grasses growing around the plant.  

Check out the recipe for the supersoil that HL linked.  You start with approx. 1/2 cubic meter of _good _base soil, then you add all the amendments listed.  Purusing this, you should be able to see that soil really needs a lot added to be able to feed cannabis (and that doesn't include feeding competing vegetation).  and I even find that the supersoil will not take my plants through an entire cycle.  I do have to feed the plants with organic teas or commercial organic nutrients.  

IMO, your plants are starving to death.  Anything you put into the soil 6 months ago is gone.  And there was not enough of it then.  You need to amend the soil wigth organic things that have cooked (broken down) and/or start feeding them with teas or commercial organic nutrients.   You also need to remove the competing vegetation.  The grasses take large amounts of nitrogen to stay green--they are staying green at the expense of the cannabis.  

There is simply no way I believe that this is an issue caused by using 2 kg of lime in 1 cu meter of soil.


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## Happyfarmer (Jun 5, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I do not believe that you have lockout due to too much lime.  The bottom line is that 2 kg per cubic meter is not that much and lime does get depleted.  Just as an example, super soil uses 1 cup of lime per cubic foot of soil.  A cubic meter is over 35 cubic feet, so if you did not use over 35 cups of lime in your mixture, you do not have too much lime.
> 
> This is from your first post:  "...The soil i'm growing in used to be a lawn. The soil was very poor (never fertilized)
> So last year i put 2kg/m2 dolomite lime and 1 kg composted chicken manoure (3-1-2) into the ground and cultivated it. The plants the first year was huge, although showing some signs of deficit towards the late bloom. But not too bad...."
> ...



Thank you so much for your answer. Was really great info for me. I will post my NPK / ph test when i can and we will have an answer.

Just to clarify - I used 2kg/m2 lime over the entire 700m2 and 1 kg chicken manoure(3-1-2) per m2 over the entire 700m2. This year i used the same amount of chicken manoure. But no lime.

1 question. Last year i only used Biobizz fertilizers, but they were really expensive. So i started using unorganic fertilier. Well knowing it's not great for the soil bacteria etc. What exactly happens when using non organic fertilizers in the soil? My thoughts is that youre not feeding all the bacteria etc in the soil so the soil won't be as rich, BUT they shouldnt outright kill them like someone stated. Right? 
thx.


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## mojoganjaman (Jun 5, 2015)

feed the soil, not the plant....hth





mojo


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## Rosebud (Jun 5, 2015)

Synthetic nutes do a good job of keeping stuff green but they do kill the soil web. Maybe not all but why use synthetics if you are concerned about the beneficials in the soil. Kinda like being pregnant, either you are or your not..


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 6, 2015)

Happyfarmer said:


> Thank you so much for your answer. Was really great info for me. I will post my NPK / ph test when i can and we will have an answer.
> 
> Just to clarify - I used 2kg/m2 lime over the entire 700m2 and 1 kg chicken manoure(3-1-2) per m2 over the entire 700m2. This year i used the same amount of chicken manoure. But no lime.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, but no, wrong.  If you have used non-organic fertilizers, you most likely have killed all beneficials you might have had going on.  However, you started with so little that you may not have had much going on in the way of microbial life anyway.  You cannot grow cannabis with chicken *** alone.  All things you put into the soil that are organic are going to break down and go away.  If you did not use lime this year, well, you did not use lime.  

Again, I am going to try and encourage you to not grow more plants than you can take care of and/or afford to take care of properly.  If you cannot afford to feed your plants what they need, you have too many.  Each and every plants is going to require almost daily care.  It is far better to end up with fewer plants that have been taken care of than a whole bunch that are allowed to just grow and given any nutrients you can afford.

Did you check out the supersoil recipe?  This gives you an idea of what the soil needs....and that is for 1/2 cubic meter.  You used just a small amount of chicken manure and that was all.  It takes a lot more than that to make lawn soil into cannabis soil.  Grasses grow everywhere, are dominant, and WILL take food meant for the cannabis.  You really do also need to get some of the wild native vegetation removed.

There IS a reason that cannabis is  expensive--you really cannot cut corners or it will be seen in potency and yield.  Again, fewer, better taken care of plants are better than lots allowed to go feral.


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## Happyfarmer (Jun 6, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Sorry, but no, wrong.  If you have used non-organic fertilizers, you most likely have killed all beneficials you might have had going on.  However, you started with so little that you may not have had much going on in the way of microbial life anyway.  You cannot grow cannabis with chicken *** alone.  All things you put into the soil that are organic are going to break down and go away.  If you did not use lime this year, well, you did not use lime.
> 
> Again, I am going to try and encourage you to not grow more plants than you can take care of and/or afford to take care of properly.  If you cannot afford to feed your plants what they need, you have too many.  Each and every plants is going to require almost daily care.  It is far better to end up with fewer plants that have been taken care of than a whole bunch that are allowed to just grow and given any nutrients you can afford.
> 
> ...



I will keep this in mind for next year. As of now i don't have time to change what is done. I will try to get as much out of what i got at this point.


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## Droopy Dog (Jun 7, 2015)

I'm with THG and others on the LACK of lime, low pH causing the lockout.

I've grown stuff in pure crushed limestone 'screenings', so the "too much lime" bit just doesn't wash with me.

Take a handfull or 2 of dolomite and sprinkle it around a plant or 2 and observe the results for yourself. I re-lime my soil garden every year and my mixes when I re-amend. It does get depleted and needs to be replaced. Should see results in a week or 2.

DD


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