# Hydro vs Soil: What suits my situation best?



## getnasty (Oct 2, 2011)

Let me start off by saying that this post is rather long. If you don't have the time to put into reading and replying, I apologize for it's length, but I aim to be clear and thorough in sharing my understanding of the information I've retained during my studies on growing marijuana. I've put a lot of thought into it, and am eagerly awaiting replies. This particular forum has been the most helpful, and I am looking forward to responses from certain members whom I have been following closely.

I'm doing an indoor grow in my closet soon. I've been doing a LOT of research on soil versus hydroponics. I've uncovered an anormous amount of information in a very little amount of time, though I feel I have processed a lot of the information logically. However, for the life of me, I can't figure out the best setup to use for my closet space. There are disadvantages to using soil versus using hydroponics, and vice versa. The space I will be utilizing is 2' x 3', with about 8 feet of height space. If I'm correct, that's 6 square feet of space. The entire closet has been painted flat white to avoid the cost of mylar or panda film. I will be using a 400 watt HPS with reflector. I will be keeping the door open when available for ventilation, but to keep the air moving in the room, I will be installing 2 small shelving units for 9" oscillating fans. At some point, I intend to take the door off, and put black poly up over the door frame. Then, cover that with a throw rug for "stealth" purposes. Worked well for a buddy of mine. This will allow me to exhaust into my living space as I do not have any other option at this point in time.

I intend on growing autoflowering plants. These are small plants, that typically produce a main cola, sometimes with branching, but typically very little. I will be working with Short Term Amnesia and either Little Red Ryder Hood or Lowberry from Dutch Breed. I do not want to fill the space with so many plants in small pots that the plants cannot produce around an ounce a piece. Yield is what I am looking for without sacrificing quality of the bud. I've read numerous threads across 3 reputable marijuana growing forums that indicate autoflowering breeds typically produce higher yields in hydroponic setup. This is what has perked my interest.

Given these plants are small, and you can fit more plants in a hydroponic system than you can in pots, in this small space, it would seem beneficial to me, to go with hydroponics. However, I've also read numerous threads advising novice growers to stick to soil. I am hard headed and believe that, give the amount of time on my hands, and my already growing adoration of growing marijuana (though I haven't officially grown anything yet), I will put forth the effort in maintaining my system and will care for it religiously.

*I would like the readers' thoughts on soil versus hydro. Though I've already read many a report, I would like you all to take into account that I am a novice grower who learns quickly, and am confident that any given situation, provided the right guidance, will not thwart my ability to produce healthy, sticky ladies.*

Moving on, I also would like to put it out there that I intend on building my own simple hydroponics system if I opt to go hydro. I believe the system I would intend on building would be an Ebb and Flow system. I would like to build a smaller, modified version of the system used in the Mr Chronic DVD, which can be found on Youtube. Basically, I intend on purchasing an opaque, non-black 5 gallon tupperware tub to serve as a reservoir, along with tubing, a water pump, and materials essential for creating nozzles in both the reservoir and the container housing my plants. The other container I will be purchasing will be another plastic container that fits into the space, deep enough to allow my ladies' roots to grow without hindrance. I will be cutting holes in the lid to house the net pots, obviously. If I can't find opaque container meeting my needs, I will purchase clear ones and cover the outsides of them in aluminum tape. The bottom of this container will have tubes for the attachment of the reservoir intake and outtake tubing. The water intake tube will top out slightly higher than being flush with the bottom of the container. The outtake tube will be about 2" below the bottom of the net pots. Thus, as the nutrient solution rises to the roots, it will then hit the outtake tube which is raised higher than the intake tube, and will drain the water back into the reservoir so that the container housing the plants will not overflow. When the pump turns off, the water will drain back into the reservoir through the intake tube. Each tube, on the container housing the plants, will have a screen ziptied to the end, to prevent any lose medium from clogging my lines, thereby ensuring adequate drainage. *This is an E&F hydroponics system, correct?*

I also have a fear of not properly maintaining my system. I hear hydroponics systems sometimes have salt build-up's, and the system needs to be cleaned regularly. *How do I go about maintaining my system, so that my girls aren't without water for an extended period of time?* Make no mistake, I will be checking on the babes daily, if not more than once daily (come on, sometimes you guys check on em just so you can take in their beauty, admit it ). But in doing so, I will ensure that my system is working properly. But are there any tips to keeping my system running at its finest? At this current point in time, I will not be running a CO2 system. Not only is my space limited, but I don't think it would be necessary for this sytem, with the small number of plants I will be growing. Perhaps in the future I will make this investment.

My questions, in this regard, are as follows:
*What medium should I use? I see a lot of people using Rockwool and Clay Balls, but have seen Perlite and Coco suggested as well. What works best at a low cost? Taking each medium into account, how often should a hydroponics timer be set to feed the plants? Should it feed once an hour for a certain period of time, or should it be for a certain period of time, less frequently? As seedlings, how do I feed them IF I'm NOT using Rockwool?* I understand that, in using Rockwool, you just keep the medium moist, but other mediums don't retain moisture like Rockwool does. *Should I start my seeds in Rockwool anyways, and then just bury the Rockwool cube in the medium I intend to use in the hydroponic system?*

*On the subject of net pots, what size should I make room for?* Given the a hydro system alots for more growing space, what size pots should I use? My goal is to ultimately fit 6-8 plants in this growing space using a hydroponics system, but I am blind in making that goal. Meaning, if 8 plants is going to prevent my yields from being as big as a novice grow could be, please specify 6. If 6 is too many, please specify what you believe I could successfully fit in said space, please.

I believe these are all the questions I need to have answered. I am also very open-minded, and would appreciate any input or critique to my planned grow room. I've been lurking around the boards for a while, and only recently have become active, but have also taken in quite an abundance of information. I will be cross posting this with another forum that I am a member of as well, in hopes for a wide variety of input. Do not hesitate to please offer any information you think may be pertinent! As I said, I'm very open ears to listen to experience, and while I'm stubborn and like to make my own decisions, I take any advice I may receive into consideration! Thank you. 

-getnasty-


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## coloradodreamn (Oct 2, 2011)

ur fingers hurt after that one?
1.  Every plant grows a main cola.
2.  Auto-flowering strains are not the answer for high yield and high THC count homie...what you are looking for is a nice indica.   
3.  in your small space if your growing from seed i would reccomend something feminized. 
4.  Are you using an air cooled hood?  because a 400 watt in a 2x3 closet is going to cook them babies alive.  you might want to look   into T5 lighting...LED's arent there just yet...
5.  what you explained for your system sounds like you are putting two kinds of system together i havent seen doc chronic video... 
6.  Flood times and how many times you have to flood your table all depends on how big your plants are, how hot your area is, what the humidity is on the closet, and what medium you are using...and you only want to flood about half way up the container/medium...
7.  Soil or coco is where you want to start. they are the two most forgiving mediums you are gonna find.  anything else like the clay balls or the rockwool will dry out fast and be a little less forgiving if anything were to go wrong. 
8.  If i were you i would get yourself some 3 gallon pots. fill them with soil and start from there. 4.
9. yeah you can start your seeds in rockwool cubes...  One major thing that can make or break a good grow....good genetics.  start with good seeds you have a chance of growing good weed.  questionable seed is going to produce questionable weed.


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 2, 2011)

I would agree with much of what Colorado said, except for going soil versus hydro. I can tell from how you write that you are a very meticullus and micro managing type of person. If I am correct then You are like me and you want to get (and keep) your hands in it. Soil is (IMO) for those types of people who like to set it and let it do its thing, or for hardcore organics peeps. There is nothing wrong with either way. It is really a matter of personal prefference.  

I use a similar hydro setup to what you described except that I don't flood and drain. I use a constant flow into coco coir, in 2liter nursery pots, which then drain into 10gal rubbermade totes. I have drain lines in the totes that allow the water to drain back to a 12gal rezevoir, from which it is aerated and pumped back to the tops of the pots to top feed. My system keeps humidity from open water to a minimum.

I love the coco over anything else(however I am biased as I haven't used rockwool). I love the fact that it holds the root mass like soil, it hold water and nutrients perfectly and my plants do really well in it. As I said, I use 2liter nursery planters, and I drill lots of holes in the bottom and around the sides so that they drain well. I like these over the net pots because they hold the roots and support the larger plants better.

The only problems that I have run into with my system is water and drain lines getting stopped up with roots and/or coco bits. I corrected this by placing coco mat cups in the bottom of my planters, and by raising the holes in the totes for the drain holes so that the draining water doesn't pull the roots into the tubes.

All that said, I would recommend for you (being in a small space) to go with DWC as that doesn't need the extra rezevoir. It would be easier to deal with (IMO) in a small growing space. I would also recommend that you grow Ind/Sat hybrids that are photoperiod rather than autoflower. I don't have any experience with the autos but from what I have read and heard, you would be better rewarded with the regulars which will grow fuller and supply more bud for fewer plants. Growing 2 nice Indica doms with the right phenotypes would work quite well, I think.

I would definitely use T5HO lighting for that as it is great for vegging and puts out the least amount of heat. If you get a 250-400w HPS for flowering, you will definitely have heat issues to deal with. Not to say you can't make it work but it will require more than just passive or light ventilation. Your plants will need fresh air constantly. Drawing air from within the home will supply plenty of CO2 that you are producing, but you also need to move the air that gets stale out of the grow space and get the fresh air in.

I would recommend either replacing the closet door with another cheap one from HD or Lowes and then make a way to connect an exaust fan in the top of the door that will pull hotter air from the top of the room and have a passive air inlet at the bottom of the door. This will also allow you to filter the air and control the sweet smells of success from getting out of the closet.

So ther is a few opinions from a fellow MJ growing addict. Hope it helps


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## bho_expertz (Oct 2, 2011)

Just my two cents.

Soil is more forgiving then hydro. The learning curve is easier i think. So i advice soil instead of hydro. And it is cheaper to start with IMO.

I totally agree about the ventilation. You need a extractor fan, passive intakes ( or actives ) and i think that a 400w is too much for the space ... You would need a cooltube.

GoodLuck :aok:


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## Locked (Oct 2, 2011)

I am a soiler grower because it is a lot more forgiving then hydro....I grow in 1 gallon smart pots using a soil that is pretty much neutral. No added ferts in it. I use GH Flora series for nutrients and as long as I remember to recal my ph meter twice a month and keep all feed and water at a ph of 6.5 it is usually smooth sailing. I hve tried hydro twice and both times it didn't turn out well.

I also wld not recommend autos...12/12 strains pawn autos on potency and yield and if you find a fast flowering Indica you can even get auto like speed on your harvests if you run clones from a mom.  jmo


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 2, 2011)

I am one who believes that there is about the same amount of difficulty between soil and hydro.  They each have their pros and cons.  IMO however, the space you (or anyone) are working with has little to do with whether to go hydro or soil.  There is really no such thing as a space that is better suited to soil or one that is better suited to hydro--the space simply does not make any difference at all.  You should make the decision based on your own preference--your space will adapt just fine to either equally well.  

Your choice of plants is an entirely different matter.  I would not be for putting different strains, especially unsexed autos, into 1 tray.  Different strains can and do have far different growth patterns (and it is ill-advised to top, fim, etc autos) and different nutrient needs.  If one plant outgrows the others, there is going to nothing you can do. The smaller plant will continue to be shaded by the larger one(s) and will most likely not thrive at all.  If one plant has nute burn and the other is starving, there is nothing you can do. I am not sure where you got your ideas about autos, but some branch alot, some don't branch much--different strains and phenos will grow quite differently. If you decide that you want to go with an e & f setup, I recommend photo period plants (I actually recommend photo period plants regardless) and running clones from the same mother.  You will also need a larger tote--a 5 gal tote (which you generally put 3-3.5 gals of solution in) will not be large enough for 6 plants.  In considering an E & F setup, I bought a 27 gal tote for 4 plants.  

More plants do not mean more bud.  You are also mistaken in your idea that hydro affords more growing space--it really doesn't make any difference--your plants are going to need x number of sq inches.  I have never had my plants stay smaller around than the pots they are planted in.  I would put no more than 4-6 plants in that space.

Your ventilation plan is not going to work.  Your plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on.  This mean that the old air must be exhausted and fresh air brought in.  Just moving stale, CO2 depleted air around your space does no good.  In addition, you are most likely going to need a good exhaust fan to keep your temps in line.  Make absolutely sure that you get a cooltube or an air cooled reflector.

If running hydro you are going to have to have a pH meter, a meter to measure ec and the calibration fluids that go with them.

If this was my space, I would be for putting in 4 or so 3-5 gal buckets.  You can run these either soil or DWC if you want to do hydro.  I would run photo period plants and set up a small place to clone.  I would take clones from clones and not keep a mom.  I would get a used (if possible) closet door (try a thrift store) and run ventilation as Hushpuppy mentioned.  Good ventilation is almost as important as your lighting.


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## getnasty (Oct 2, 2011)

Coloradodreams,

I'm aware every plant grows a main cola. I meant to infer that these autoflowering strains from Dutch Breed only grow a main cola. One of the strains sometimes has some branching, but not much. I know autoflowering plants are not the answert for high yield or high thc levels. I meant that, for growing an auto, I want to maximize my yield, per plant. I didn't mean to infer that I wanted huge plants out of this. One of the advantages to hydroponics is higher yields in autos, than those grown in soil, because they grow faster and get bigger. In regard to feminized seeds, I've also looked into this, and it will be considered in future grows, but for the time being I'd like to sample Dutch Breed's strains and they do not offer feminized seeds. I've already initiated a purchase from someone for a HPS set up, with a lot of extras at a very nice bargain and would like to stick with it due to the things I hear about HPS in flowering. Thank you for the rest of your tips.


HushPuppy,

Glad to have you in the thread! Thank you for your tips. The thing with replacing the door is that my landlord would probably not appreciate seeing holes in his door or a new door with holes in it.  He might have questions or look into the closet; neither of which I want. Haha. Being that I'm going with the HPS for sure, I know I will need proper ventilation. A cool tube being necessary means I will probably attempt to make one of the DIY cool tubes in hopes of keeping the cost down. I also know that I need to get the stale air out and move fresh air in. This is the point of keeping the door open when I can, which would be most of the time, with a more powerful fan pushing fresh air up under the plant leaves. This should keep the fresh air circulating properly, correct?


BHO,

I don't concern myself with learning curves. I learn from my mistakes rather easily, and understand that mistakes are going to happen. It makes the learning experience, for me, easier. I've also heard that it is cheaper to start off hydro than soil, if you are attempting a DIY hydro system. Thank you for your input as well!


Hamster!,

Hey! Seen you around here quite a bit. Glad to have your input. I understand that soil is more forgiving than hydro, but am bedazzles, I guess you would say, by pictures of _experienced_ hydro growers' results. I would like to produce this yield at some point in my journey. Interesting information on the 12/12's and speed growing them to mimic the autoflowering harvest times. I don't have the space, however, to run a vegging station though, which is why I have opted for auto's. I also assume that with the faster growing period, there would be less time screw up the grow than with a 12/12 or regular strain.


THG,

I am truly elated at your reply! I was hoping to spark your interest in replying, amongst a few others I am still waiting for.

I understand that the space has little to do with which way I decide to grow. I meant to say that because of the hydro setup not using large pots like soil uses, I would be able to fit more of these small plants in the growing space using a hydro setup. Thank you, though, for ensuring that this was clarified.

What does sexed plants have to do with being in the same container? The auto's flower anywhere between week 3 [males (some reports)] and week 4 [females (most other reports)]. During this time period, if I maintain constant watch over the plants (also breathing co2 into their growing space) I should be able to yank the males as soon as they show without risking pollenating my ladies, shouldn't I? Please enlighten a novice, as I believe I may be missing something here! On this same subject, I understand that these two strains are fairly similar to one another as far as their needs are concerned. Both strains also only grow one main cola, with one strain that will sometimes have minimal branching. bearing this in mind, it seems logical to me that I should be able to fit several of these grow stations in this space. Could you enlighten me to the error of my way, please?

Thank you for the input about my selected hydroponics system. I didn't take into account that one plant could be burned while another is flourishing. I should be able to account for this by removing the burned plant from the tub and flushing it though, shouldn't I? I know that is not a permanant fix. I could have to seek out an option for an additional growing station for that strain with less nutrients. As I said, though, the two strains I am going to be purchasing have similar needs, I believe.

Also, I know that more plants does not mean more bud, but if more plants, on a hydro system, are all taken care of properly, it seems logical to me that the yield will be higher, so long as each plant has enough room and lumens to grow properly.

As far as my ventilation plans, why will it not work, if I keep the door open with a fan blowing fresh air into the closet? This door is not going to be closed most of the time. It will be closed when the lights are off, and when I have company over, which is rare. With a fan blowing fresh air into the closet, and 9" oscillating fans pushing that air around, am I really being too hopeful that heat will not be too much of an issue? How about if I utilize a cool tube as you and bho have suggested?

Part of my package includes a pH meter with the solution to callibrate it. What is EC? How much do these meters typically run?

I like your idea, and will take that into consideration if I decide to use soil. I do have a question, though. Would 3-5 gallons be too large (think space-spacing; more plant space) for auto's? These particular auto's only get 18-24" tall typically, sometimes 36", and have minimal branching, if any. I believe 2 gallon pots would be sufficient, if I chose to go with soil?


Again, thank you, all of you, for your input and suggestions/critique! MORE MORE MORE!



-getnasty-


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 2, 2011)

Maybe I am not understanding how you want to set your E & F up.  Generally you are going to have a bunch of plants growing in a common tray in some kind of medium--rockwool, hydrotron, etc.  The roots are going to spread out into the medium and become intermingled.  When you remove the males, you are most likely going to rip roots from adjacent plants.  If you get a bunch of males bunched together and are left with a bunch of girls close together, you are not going to be able to space them out within your table.  In addition,  many autos are not stable.  Many times people here have gotten autos that do not auto.  There is still a lot of difference in the phenos.  If you get a bunch of plants that grow the same from a pack of seeds, it will be unusual.  If you are getting your info on these autos from the breeder's description, take all with a grain of salt.  They are trying to sell beans and emphasize the good and downplay any bad.  As for the nute thing, like I said, you are not going to be able to remove plants once they are established in a E & F (and have them survive).

Yield is more a function of your lights and the strain you are growing, not plant count or whether it is soil or hydro.  Overcrowding your plants will result in less bud.  Hydro is not going to give you more than soil grows.  Eight plants crowded together is not going to give you more yield than 3-4 plants with breathing room.  Don't know how else to explain it, but that is the way it is.  

Yes, you are being far too hopeful about the heat.  You need to pull hot air out of your room.  You are going to need a cooltube or an air cooled hood to keep your space cool enough, but a cooltube by itself won't do anything--you need an exhaust fan  The air is not going to magically exchange itself because the door is open--you actually need to be PULLING cool air through the light and exhausting the hot air out of your space.  Did I mention that you need an exhaust fan?

What package are you talking about?  I have never seen a pH *meter* come with a pre-packaged hydro system--it is normally strips or drops. EC stands for electrical conductivity and measures the dissolved solids in any solution.  It is critical to keep your nute solution within certain parameters.  A nute solution that is too high can kill a plant overnight.  

You may have some problems running a grow without arousing suspicions from your landlord.  Growing, especially hydro, is generally not quiet (fans and pumps do make noise).  And the only real way to keep smells at bay is to have negative pressure in your space and use a carbon filter.  It is impossible to create negative pressure with the door open and without a good quality exhaust fan.  Also remember that landlords can enter an apartment at any time for emergencies.


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## Rosebud (Oct 2, 2011)

I have no idea which is easier as I am one of those "hard-core organic peeps" that hushpuppy was talking about. I love growing in the dirt. I can tell that what ever you decide to do, you will do well. Green mojo and have fun and be really careful growing in an apartment. Would a tent make more sense?


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 2, 2011)

Rosebud said:
			
		

> I have no idea which is easier as I am one of those "hard-core organic peeps" that hushpuppy was talking about. I love growing in the dirt. I can tell that what ever you decide to do, you will do well. Green mojo and have fun and be really careful growing in an apartment. Would a tent make more sense?


No offense Rosebud   I know there are different levels of dedication to one's chosen art. I guess I could be called a hardcore hydro-peep at this point, but I also respect the organics and soilers too


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## Rosebud (Oct 2, 2011)

Oh no offense taken, i like my radical slant. 

I just really love organics and have for over a decade in my yard so continue in my indoor garden. It isn't easy though, if you looked in my flower room right now you would say yuck.. If it was easy it would look better. Some grows are better then others. ha.


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## coloradodreamn (Oct 2, 2011)

you don't concern yourself with learning curves?  ummm learning curves in this hobby can cost you an awful lot of money...or your freedom...learning curves in soil means you only get a small yield of some nice bud...the learning curve in hydro is buying new seeds when your electricity goes out and plants dry up...or a pump craps out...

I am also a die-hard soil nut.  i went to hydro because of these "monster yields"  i was promised....that nobody has ever shown me.....hated the taste of the hydro compared to the dirt and the high was so much better.  

It seems like you dont have time for vegging???  looks like you only can see the finish line and not the work that's going to really go into this homie...

heat is something everybody must fight and you being in a closet its going to be even harder...and the whole landlord situation is another story in its own...

i like what rosebud has to say...maybe think about the tent...thay are a little bit easier to manage...that and coco sound like the way to roll...


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## bho_expertz (Oct 3, 2011)

coloradodreamn said:
			
		

> you don't concern yourself with learning curves? ummm learning curves in this hobby can cost you an awful lot of money...or your freedom...learning curves in soil means you only get a small yield of some nice bud...the learning curve in hydro is buying new seeds when your electricity goes out and plants dry up...or a pump craps out...


 
:yeahthat:

I'm soooooo sorry  i'm not ONE of the hardcore growers you were expecting a post  , but i do tell you that i had a closet, now have a tent, live in a apartment and have a landlord.

And also that i know what EC is ... :hubba:. And igrow DANK.

GoodLuck

:48:


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## getnasty (Oct 3, 2011)

THG,

After much deliberation, we've decided to go with soil. While I still fancy the idea of a hydro system, my partner and I, after taking everybody's advice into consideration, have decided to run with soil.

In regard to overcrowding the plants, I don't feel that I would be, given that those particular autoflowering strains do not branch, and the light would reach each of the plants sufficiently. Also, Dutch Breed buyers have reported great a great success to failure ratio with their seeds. In the event of the autoflowering seeds not auto'ing, they suggest changing the lighting to 12/12, which should force the plant into flowering. The information I've fathered about their strains is not based on the breeder's description either. I have a bit of a background in sales and marketing, and don't trust any company's description of its own products. The information gathered was from sources who have grown seeds from DB and highly recommend them.

On the subject of lights, while I would love to do HPS, you guys seem to think I'm going to have heat issues with it. While I do not think the issues will be as terrible as you all seem to, I've opted to listen to experience, and will be picking up a 24" 4-bulb T5 grow light setup. My only qualm with this is that I've read that HPS are so much better for flowering. But I figure if, during vegging I use 2 red and 2 blue bulbs, and during flowering I use 3 blue and 1 red bulb, the different stages should stay happy enough? Correct me if I'm wrong, please!

There are also plenty of growers, even growers I've seen use spaces as small as mine, who do not use exhaust fans and have gotten sufficient yields. I do intend to purchase one in the future, but as I stated previously, I intend on leaving the door open when it is available, which is most of the time, with the floor fan blowing into the closet and the oscillating fans moving air around in the closet. When I get the lights setup and turn them on for a bit to get a temperature reading, if it happens to be too warm, I will invest in an inline fan. Question, though. Would a 65CFM inline duct fan work for this space? A 180cfm blower? 

The package I'm speaking of is one I found on craigslist. It's lightly used equipment and nutes at a decent price. However, in opting to go with the fluorescents, I've abandoned that deal to pursue the purchase of new in the box fluorescent system, for around the same cost as the light I was going to purchase. In the end I will be investing more on nutes and other materials needed that I would have gotten greatly discounted in that package, but if fluorescents is going to be optimal for my space, then I reckon I can not be pigheaded about it and change my mind. Perhaps when we move, I can look into a new HPS setup and keep my fluorescents for vegging. Also, thanks for clarifying about EC. I thought these were refered to as PPM Meters, as I've found some using that as a search term, and none were referred to as EC meters. I intend on purchasing a pH meter and PPM Meter before getting started, so I can ensure that my nute solution is perfect.

In closing, I don't think I'll arouse any suspicion from my landlord. In the year and a half that I've lived here, he's been inside the place maybe 5 times; only one of those times was he ever in my bedroom. He has never come into my home without notifying us a week in advance first, either. People have reported in the DIY section that the DIY ona machine works wonderfully at masking the odors. I'm going to use this first, as it's cheaper. If it turns out to not be adequate, I will make the DIY carbon filter.


Rosebud,

Chances are, if you've read this far, you've already noted that a tent would not be ideal in my case.  Thanks for the suggestion, though!


Colorado,

No, I don't concern myself with learning curves. My landlord does not enter my home unless I am in it. Yes, he has legal right to, in case of emergencies, but he doesn't. In either event, if he does come in, he sends a letter a week in advance. That being said, a tent is a lot harder to conceal than a closet, if he does happen to come in. The only other person who knows about this is my buddy that's going to be purchasing seeds. So I do not fret about being caught. I'm aware that mistakes will wind up costing me, yes, but I don't start small and work my way up. Anything I've ever done, I've done it the way the experienced people do it, and go about fixing my mistakes from there. However, that doesn't mean I'm not willing to take advice. I learn what I can from research and then the rest is hands-on. The reason I'm not concerned about those two things you mentioned is because I am most most of every day. The closet is in my bedroom. I am in my bedroom most of the time when I am home. I will know when a pump goes out, and my electricity very rarely ever goes out. This is one reason why I was leaning toward hydro.

However, after weighing the input I've received, and talking to my partner about the pro's and con's of each and sharing with him the information, we've decided soil might be the best medium to use for the time being, primarily because of reports we've read about soil growers who have gone hydro and reverted back to soil quickly. Our entire decision to start growing was based on his desire to try some of the autoflowering strains at Dutch Breed. I suppose we could try these in the future, but after talking to him, I believe we've come to the agreement that one of their 12/12 strain's may be a better option for us. I've decided on their Orange Candy Floss, and my partner on their Killer Super Blueberry. 

Also, I do have plenty of time for vegging. I didn't mean to come off as being in a hurry to get to the end. Obviously, being that it's my first grow, the first harvest is eagerly anticipated. But I do understand the amount of work involved with them, and understand the time involved as well. I'm going to be looking at a solid 4 months, give or take, before the bud will be smokeable, using a 12/12 strain and keeping the plant relatively small.

By the way, my fingers are finally starting to ache a little bit. 


BHO,

Much love; I didn't mean to leave you out of that list! Your advice was taken into consideration, though, along with everybody elses! I have guests that come to my home, namely friends of mine, that I do not want knowing that I am growing. Also, a concealed room is better for me, being that, IF my landlord should need to come into my room for the fusebox, the room will be concealed from his sight. An obvious grow tent does not seem to be an ideal solution for me.  I would, however, consider a light tight "entertainment center" grow room.  A little rearranging of the room and one would fit quite nicely!


-getnasty-


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## Rosebud (Oct 3, 2011)

Why no tent?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 3, 2011)

The T5s are not going to cut it--especially the 2' 2000 lumen ones.

You need proper ventilation.

Where have you gotten all this info about Dutch Breeder?  I have never even heard of them before now.  In looking them up, I also believe that Dutch Breed is simply a seed distributor (like Attitude), not a breeder.  The seeds come from different breeders who may or may not be good.  What breeder's seeds are you looking at?

Your land lord entering your home 5 times in a year and a half is really quite frequent in my mind.  Be careful.  You are NOT going to be able to contain smells without neg pressure in your space especially if you are going to *try* to ventilate your space this way.

This advise all comes from years and years of growing.  I'm not saying that I am old, but I have been growing more years than you have been alive :giggle:


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## getnasty (Oct 3, 2011)

Rosebud,

In the event of my landlord coming into my bedroom, a closet grow room is easier to conceal than a tent. 


THG,

You are essentially telling me that I have to keep the door closed, most of the time, yes? I assume this by saying I need to have negative pressure in the room, but I understand that's only for containing the smell? Or is negative pressure essential to the plant's growth as well? Also, are either of the blowers that I listed sufficient for ventilating the space? As you suggested, I could get a replacement door to modify as need be. I assume 2 or 3 passive intakes on the bottom and a 4" exhaust at the top? perhaps I could Y the exhaust to 2 4" exhausts? I might also add that most of my neighbors are smokers as well. If they'd happened to pick up on the scent, they'd probably just assume that I was smoking.

Fear not, 4 of the 5 times he's been inside the place since I moved in, he was called here. Only 1 time has he been here otherwise, and it was not for an emergency. Someone is always home when he is around, and if push comes to shove, I can put an exterior lock on my door that he doesn't have a key to, to "keep my roommates out of my ****". 


-getnasty-


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 3, 2011)

I'll try to post up some detailed pics of my vegging space--you may be able to use some of the ideas.  Even though I own my own place, I have mirrored sliding closet doors and did not want to change them out.  I built a box within my closet with 1/2 plywood.  It is approx 4 x 2 x 4.  I have sliding doors, so built doors for the box that were slightly smaller than the closet doors.  I have considered painting the front of the box to resemble a dresser for added stealth.  I think you could make it quite convincing.  The inlet is at one end of the box near the floor.  Since I own my home, I cut a hole in the wall and covered with a small grate.  The exhaust is out the top of the box into the closet.  I do have T5s in here as it is a veg space, I use an axial fan for exhaust.  In the summer, I send the heat up into the attic.  In the winter, the heat is directed into my bedroom.  I considered a tent, but the plywood was cheaper and fit my plans better.  I like the rigidy of it and that the top of the box is like having another shelf in the closet.


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## getnasty (Oct 3, 2011)

We intend on moving soon, and I'm hoping to be renting a house with a basement. If this is the case, I will have more room for growing space and a vegging space to boot. For now, though, I think the closet's just gonna have to be enough. Any input ont he fans I listed? "Would a 65CFM inline duct fan work for this space? A 180cfm blower? " Thank you!



-getnasty-


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 3, 2011)

getnaqsty said:
			
		

> We intend on moving soon, and I'm hoping to be renting a house with a basement. If this is the case, I will have more room for growing space and a vegging space to boot. For now, though, I think the closet's just gonna have to be enough. Any input ont he fans I listed? "Would a 65CFM inline duct fan work for this space? A 180cfm blower? " Thank you!
> 
> 
> 
> -getnasty-



Inline duct fans are booster fan meant to work in conjunction with larger fans on long ducting runs.  They are not meant to be stand alone fans.  I do not know if the blower fan will work, however, 180 cfms should be sufficient.

Remember that you are trying to grow a product that "retails" for $300 an oz or so.  There are certain "minimum requirements" to grow.  One of them is adequate light, the other is adequate ventilation.  IMO, ventilation is almost as important as your lighting.  If you cheap out on these, it will affect your yield.  Inadequate light, high temps, and inadequate amounts of CO2 (in the form of fresh air) equal light airy buds.


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## getnasty (Oct 3, 2011)

THG, earlier, when you said that the T5's weren't going to cut it, did you mean that they weren't going to cut the heat down enough or that they wouldn't be enough to grow 4-5 plants in the area I am using? Should I get an 8 bulb T5 if that's the case?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 3, 2011)

They work great for vegging, but they are not so good for flowering.  You really need a HPS if you want to get the best yield.


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## Roddy (Oct 3, 2011)

T5's are for vegging, you have to have serious lighting and ventilation to make plants bud out! An HPS properly ventilated will work great, the ventilation cuts the heat down allowing for your using the HPS in a small space!


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## getnasty (Oct 3, 2011)

Alright, so I can take part of the package deal I'd found on Craigslist, then. I just need to get an inline fan in addition to it. I assume I can build a box around it to muffle the sound too?


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## BBFan (Oct 3, 2011)

Hello getnaqsty-

Interesting read.  You certainly are doing your homework.  So it comes down to a soil grow of 2 photoperiod strains in a 2' x 3' space with T5 lighting throughout the grow?

If I just might add an observation, I don't think you're thinking through the smell issue enough.  I grow Blueberry all the time, and (at least my strain) stinks to high heaven.  I've tried all the cover-up methods, including ONA based systems.  Fresh growing pot smells way different from burning pot!  Don't take this consideration too lightly based on your living conditions.   The only thing I've found to be a continuously effective method is a carbon filter.

Be safe and good luck to you on this adventure.


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## getnasty (Oct 3, 2011)

Thank you BBFan, I'm going to use a 400w HPS with a ventilation system. I have to lsiten to experience on this once. The T5's were said to not be sufficient enough for the flowering period, so I'm going to get the HPS and create a ventilation system with home made carbon filter, and possibly a home made cool tube as well.

While we're on the subject, would the minds of the masses kindly inform a young lad, in depth, on the proper way to set up the ventilation system for my described area?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 3, 2011)

Don't use the filter until you need it as it affects the fan's cfms.  I also always recommend a speed controller for the fan.  I recently ordered a 6" centrifuge fan off E-Bay for $85 shipped.  Look for deals--they are out there.

This is how I would hook it up--filter>duct>light>duct>fan>duct to outside.  Take the exhaust out high, have your intakes down low.


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## getnasty (Oct 4, 2011)

Hey THG,

I intend on having the intakes down low and the exhaust up high. Hot air rises.  Couple of questions, though. For the intakes, do I need something sucking the air into the room? Like some small cpu fans afixed to the holes in the door? Or when I set up the ventilation, does the duct leading out to my bedroom get hooked up to the inlets? I've seen you say that you want negative pressure in the rom so many times, and that you should suck air through the light. Perhaps I'm just confused as to how the ventilation is going to work.


Let's give this a run with the information I already have:

I don't intend on these plants getting higher than 5ft tall, if that. So, so long as I have my light higher than say, eye level for me (I'm 6'2"; eye level should be at about 6 feet, perhaps an inch or two more), could I put a shelf above the light to keep my exhaust ducting up there, instead of hanging it? Or is it wiser to hang it? The shelf would also serve a double purpose to reflect light back to the canopy again. Air would still flow freely to the space above the shelf, too, so it shouldn't make temperatures too hot for the girls.

So, I'm going to hook my filter up as a dead-end, sort of, for the ventilation? Basically, I'm sucking the air into the filter, cleaning the air at that point, and then pulling the air through the ducting, through the light, back into more ducting and then afixing it to my ventilation hole in the door? I am correct in saying that this ventilation structure never appends to the intake holes at the bottom of the closet? It just sucks the air out of the room through the carbon filter, cleaning it, then through the light, and then through the fan out of the growing space and into my bedroom?

If this is the case, as I asked before, should I have some small cpu fans afixed to the door that pulls in fresh air? This would seem ideal, if it were the case. I could either hook them up to a spare power supply (what do you know? a spare part I actually have around, being a computer technician) or strip the wires and hook them up to ac adapters. But, the end goal would be the same; being that fresh air with my freshly exhausted co2 would be pulled into the grow space. Does this sound like a good idea? Bad idea?

Any input would be greatly appreciated. I know I asked several questions throughout that, and these are questioned I am desperate for an answer to. I tossed the exhaust system out of my head a couple weeks ago and never did any research into how it worked. I'm assuming what I've laid out above is correct.

Also, how drastically does it affect the cfm's? Remember, I'm in a small place, and keeping my costs down is pertinent. Rent still has to be paid.  Hence why I am making the DIY carbon filter.


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## getnasty (Oct 4, 2011)

Also, for another design with the exhaust, could I not exhaust down low, but leave the intake for the exhaust up high? Wouldn't it bring the air down the chute and still be as effective? As much as I can conceal these holes the better. Setting a dresser in front of the door would be ideal.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 4, 2011)

No, that will not work as well.  If the intake is up high, you will be pulling air that is already hot over your lights.  It really should be laid out as suggested.

You do not need an intake fan--your intake can be passive.  In fact, sometimes if you have a substantially lower powered (lower cfm) fan at the intake than you have for exhaust it will impede the air flow.


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## Roddy (Oct 4, 2011)

:yeahthat: passive intakes along the bottom, the vent fan will draw the air through and you'll have plenty of airflow!


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## Locked (Oct 4, 2011)

I wld mimic the design of a tent in your space. Passive intakes down low..(my tents hve 3. 1 in the back and one on each side.) I manage with a single 6 inch inline fan rated at around 450 cfm. This one fan pulls the hot old air out of the tent through my cool tube (cooling the light as well) fresh cool air goes in the bottom intakes and the negative pressure allows me to exhaust the old air out a window and get by without a carbon filter on most runs.


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## getnasty (Oct 4, 2011)

Alright, so, how about this:


Exhaust System:
Carbon Filtered intake at the bottom of the room, exhaust ducting up the right rear corner, up to one side of the lampp. Other side of lamp has ducting leading to fan, which exhausts into ducting leading to low-mid area of the door. Essentially my goal is to hide the exhaust/intake vents with the dresser, but the dresser is only 5ft tall, but will cover the entire doorway with its width. Will this work? Or do you guys have suggestions?


Hammy,

This closet is opposite the side of the room than the bedroom. I'd rather just exhaust into the bedroom, especially as winter is coming up. 


-getnasty-


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## getnasty (Oct 4, 2011)

Can anybody confirm that the exhaust will be okay setup like this?


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## BBFan (Oct 4, 2011)

getnaqsty said:
			
		

> Alright, so, how about this:
> 
> 
> Exhaust System:
> ...


 
You do not need to filter your intake.

If you filter your exhaust, you can exhaust into the bedroom.


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## getnasty (Oct 4, 2011)

Intake for the exhaust. There's an in and and out for the exhaust, is there not? The passive intakes at the bottom won't be filtered. But the exhaust system as to start drawing air out somewhere. By everyone's description, I'm guessing that the carbon filter is the inlet, or the intake on the exhaust.


I'll get a diagram up tonight on how I intend to set this baby up, so we all understand one another. I seem to confuse people more than inform them.


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## getnasty (Oct 4, 2011)

Also, THG, regarding your DIY cool tubes, would I be able to fit a 400w HPS inside one of them? Or am I better off spending the money on a reflector that can be air cooled? Better yet, would it be illadvised to build one myself, that I could connect the ballast to? Again, on a budget here, and those reflectors aren't cheap.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 4, 2011)

No, I think a 400w is too big for the bake around cool tubes--they are only about 3-3/4' in diameter.  I'm pretty sure that if you are handy you could put together an air cooled light--not sure it would be much cheaper thought than many of the bargains that are out there.  Make sure you use tempered glass.


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## getnasty (Oct 4, 2011)

hxxp://i56.tinypic.com/28tw6c.jpg

Forgive the terrible artwork. It was one I had already made... in reality, as the plants grow the higher the bulb's going to need to be. I'll have enough ducting for it. The image doesn't show the door, but imagine half way up the door, the exhaust would exit the grow room through a hole in the door.

starin down at the clouds right now 

-getnasty-


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 5, 2011)

Can you post your artwork up here?  How are you going to open the door if you have exhaust ducting connected to it?


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## getnasty (Oct 5, 2011)

Hope this isnt too large. I intend on allowing slack in the ducting for the door to open. It shouldn't require much. I have no other way to ventilate.


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## getnasty (Oct 5, 2011)

Also, THG, after reading the below quote from another website, I think I'm still going to try your diy cooltube. and it appears I can get a 6" one on ebay.



> I have been using a 4" bakearound bread tube as a cooltube for about 2 years now, first with a 400W HPS and now with a 600W HPS...


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## coloradodreamn (Oct 5, 2011)

If anything put the carbon filter up high in the closet above the light. that way all the heat is pulled up and out no matter what. and have all the exhaust come out the top...so flip your design upside down and it will be golden.

Cooltoob's with the socket are only around $125.  do yourself the favor and get one. spend the money the first time on the lights and you will never have to again.  Buy yourself the Jorge Cervantes Medicinal Grow Bible.  Its color coded and is absolutely the best book for beginners.  it has a bunch of growroom designs as well as the things you need to look for and just about anything you can think of that will arise...


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## Locked (Oct 5, 2011)

coloradodreamn said:
			
		

> If anything put the carbon filter up high in the closet above the light. that way all the heat is pulled up and out no matter what. and have all the exhaust come out the top...so flip your design upside down and it will be golden.



:yeahthat:

I hve my CF located up high in the right hand corner. Figure it will pull all the hot air.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 5, 2011)

I am the opposite--I like to pull air from near the floor.  It can be 20 degrees cooler and cools the light better.  I also keep my light stationary and raise and lower the pots.  You generally ultimately need to do this anyway to keep an even canopy.


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## getnasty (Oct 5, 2011)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> :yeahthat:
> 
> I hve my CF located up high in the right hand corner. Figure it will pull all the hot air.


 


Colorado and Hamster:

How about this?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 5, 2011)

I don't see how pulling hot air over your light is the best setup if you are wanting to cool your light?  If you have 2 fans, I would say that one should be at the top to exhaust the warmer air, but if you have just one cooling your light, IMO you are far better off pulling air from near the bottom of your space.


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## Roddy (Oct 5, 2011)

I'm with THG on the cool air thought...


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 5, 2011)

I would think that in a space that small, it would not make much difference if the exaust is high or low as you have fans in the room constantly stirring the air and keeping the cool and warm air mixed together. Once you get a ballance of intake and exaust with getting the room temp at around 75*, you should be transferring enough air that taking air from up higher shouldn't be too hot to impair the cooling of the light. Just my thinking.


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 5, 2011)

I would set it all up and test it out without any plants in it and see how it is going to work. If it doesn't cool the light enough you can always move it down some until you get it cool enough. The only problem with that is if there is a problem with the higher air being too hot to sufficiently cool the light, then you are going to have a pool of hot air staying up in the top of the space as it will not get pulled out if the exaust hose is set low.

Just a note, if you build your own cooltube, you are still gonna need the ballast to go with it. I have seen some really good deals on EBAY for the cooltubes and ballast combo which includes several things for around $100-$150.


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## Locked (Oct 5, 2011)

I pull my air from up top because I figure that is where the hottest air in the tent is. I never worry about that air being too hot to cool my bulb though....it never happens. With my passive intakes down low I actually didn't want to pick up this cool air instead of the warmer air up top. I honestly don't think it matters much. The temp difference is not that great between the air down low and up high.  jmo


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## getnasty (Oct 5, 2011)

Hmmmm. When I finally get all the materials in, I'll get it set up and do some testing. Couple of questions though. Am I just reading the temperature of the room from the digital thermometer/humidity display I'm purchasing when I am taking the temperature readings? Or do I need to measure the heat of the exhaust and/or in the vacinity of the bulb?


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 5, 2011)

Well there is two ways to look at that. You want to maintain a good temp within the grow space (around 75-80* during lights on). And you want to cool the HID light that is running so that it doesn't get too hot and fail prematurely. Unfortunately I don't know what temp you should be trying to achieve on the exaust to sufficiently cool the bulb. I do know that if the bulb is not being cooled well it will reflect in the room not cooling well (in my experience anyway).


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