# New hydro set up...



## Ravishing_68 (Nov 9, 2006)

As you know the caddy I purchased, while used, was expensive, but it got me started so I'm not going to complain. I'd love your input on turning this open area (used to be a closet) into a Hydro grow space. there is a formica table permanently placed with a 3" step 1' back (was for my keyboards for computers) there is also two holes in the table to get plugs to the outlet. I think I will probably place another outlet higher up on the wall (I have the ability to do that) and of course there will be venting needed. Behind the wall is the kitchen where the exhaust vent for the stove happens to be so perhaps I can vent using that hole or adapt as necessary. I thought the bottom, one side could be for vege stage another for clones, mothers? and the top for flowering. If money permits I'd have doors made in designer looking wood to make it look a part of the room rather than an obvious grow closet. Those are my ideas at this time... I'd love your take on it. 

My measurements:

Height from floor to ceiling is very close to 8'. The top area is 6' counting the 3" drop. Bottom half is close to 2'.

Width is 74". The bottom has the drawers (I can use to keep supplies or whatever in) the L side is 29" and the R side is 27".

Depth is close to 3'. The back is 2' and then the 3" drop and then 1'. Perhaps this drop will help with the ebb and flow? 

Anyhoo, This is my information, no rush, just thought I'd pick yer brain. 

Thank you in advance.


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## Ravishing_68 (Nov 19, 2006)

Ok, I have a very crude drawing of what I am visualizing.  The top 4 green containers are 14gal flowering chambers, the bottom left blue container is the 25gal reservoir and the right lower container is my clone chamber completely self-sufficient.  Where the lip is on the shelf I believe will be where I can put the bottom holes for the water to be pumped in at and the black holes will be the overflow back to the reservoir.  Am I seeing this right?  

Stoney Bud is going to help me out here, always go to the pros!... I need to understand where I need to put PVC and hosing.  Also this is an 18 sq. ft. area.  Should I put one bulb (perhaps on a track) or two on them?  It's slowing coming and by the time my sprouts are ready to flower I'm sure I'll have it all completed.  Any suggestions would be greatly welcome.


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## Elephant Man (Nov 20, 2006)

Your not giving up on the caddy are you?  

That room has potential, looks well suited for any hydro setup that drains to res below.  As far as ventilation, you could use an air cooled hood and leave the glass out, hook up a fan to draw from the light and use the actual light hood as your intake.  You could even exhaust that out the stove vent, but that will take a little work.  Might have to have some valves to keep the air from blowing down onto the stove.

As far as the hydro setup, I would probably try to get Stoney's help on something custom like that.  He would surely have some ideas on plumbing all of that so that it will be reliable.  I love experimenting, but my setup is in the garage on concrete, alot more forgiving as far as leaks.


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## Ravishing_68 (Nov 20, 2006)

No, not giving up on the caddy, it is just that I watched one plant take up most all the caddy...two tops.  I would use the caddy for the vegging stage, the "closet" for flowering (and the self-contained clone box).

That gives me three separate areas for growing.  In a perfect world all I would have to do is get the clones from the clone box, place in the vege box (caddy) for veg stage, then place in the flowering chamber (closet) after taking a couple of clones.  Repeat as needed...?  Am I correct?

p.s. sorry but I've been up all night with a horrible cough and now I'm all wiggy... and I MUST go tend to some errands today, if I could just get a couple of hours of good sleep.


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## Ravishing_68 (Nov 20, 2006)

Oh my land... I have slept like 1 hr the entire night, not sure if I feel loopy because of the nyquil/cough syrup/benedryl or the lack of sleep, probably both.  I HATE TO SHOP... if I haven't already mentioned that... I know, it goes completely against the grain of being a female but I do.

So I go to Home Depot with a list of things I figure I am going to need thus far with the flower chamber.  After finally finding someone that works at HD he did not know what a bulkhead is, I tried to explain it is a plastic pipe that is threaded on both sides with washer/nuts to hold it in place, but he wasn't getting it.  I live in California and we only half joke about "If I could speak better spanish I think I would get better help."  He and another customer service rep. sent me on a snipe hunt (looking for roughneck storage containers).  I finally gave up and got in line to pay for a Beckett fountain pump and some 1" couplers.  One wouldn't think it would be so hard to purchase something, BUT, There was only one line open with a cashier and the line I think went to Bethlehem.  The other Rep watches as you self-checkout... 4 lines of self-check out and only one person could work the thing.  You should of seen this guy trying to scan a 6 ft. ladder ((EGADS)).

Anyhoo, I'm home now with basically very little accomplished.

Here is my list of parts to make my 4 unit ebb & flow flowering chamber:

4   14 gallon roughneck storage containers   
        (24x16x12)           $5.67 ea. (Lowes)
1  25 gallon roughneck storage container 
       (29x20x16.5)        $6.99 ea. (Target) 
10 bulkhead fitting - 1" inside diameter. 
10 couplers  $6.48/10
4 Elbow pvc fittings
6 Tee pvc fittings
1 8 ft. long PVC pipe
Beckett Medium Fountain Pump Model 706121 $34.97
3/8" plastic tubing
1" hose

my brain is full of snot... I'll wait until Stoney Bud looks over my list, I'm sure I'm forgetting a few things.


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## Elephant Man (Nov 20, 2006)

Keep the lids.  I was thinking about your plan and the only part I think could be tough would be moving the 3 inch net pots into the ebb pans full of rocks.  I don't know personally how hard this will be, depends on how long they veg and how long the roots are.  It may be as easy as transplanting in soil, I would hope someone will have something to say about that.

As I said in pm, Stoney's method (if I understand correctly) has the nutrient depletion figured out, which could only be done by lots of testing (thanks Stoney ).  But I was wondering also, for a long veg in aero, if it wouldn't be easier to transplant to a NFT style setup.  

Don't freakout, you can still use everything you already bought.

I am curious to see what Stoney has to say about transplanting big roots into pan full of rocks, maybe I am wrong.  I know he has NFT experience too.


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## Ravishing_68 (Nov 20, 2006)

I hadn't even thought that far ahead.  I guess if worse comes I will cut the lid and netpots to get the ladies settled into the ebb & flow flowering chamber.  If I end up cutting the lid I'll just fabricate another out of a sheet of plastic (do that alot with sheet metal on the racecars).  

I hope SB reads this and doesn't find more flaws in my plan...LOL... my last plan was to have two flowering chambers and two veg chambers...but DOH... I would have to have two reservoirs!  If I can clone in the self-contained clone chamber and veg in the caddy, then flower in the closet I should be able to have all three stages going at the same time!?!???

Thanks everyone for keeping me on the path here... I get too darned excited and sometimes don't think it through thoroughly ... hmmmm... kinda like how I race sometimes too! ((ROFL)).  eace:


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## Elephant Man (Nov 20, 2006)

Ravishing_68 said:
			
		

> I hadn't even thought that far ahead. I guess if worse comes I will cut the lid and netpots to get the ladies settled into the ebb & flow flowering chamber. If I end up cutting the lid I'll just fabricate another out of a sheet of plastic (do that alot with sheet metal on the racecars).
> 
> I hope SB reads this and doesn't find more flaws in my plan...LOL... my last plan was to have two flowering chambers and two veg chambers...but DOH... I would have to have two reservoirs! If I can clone in the self-contained clone chamber and veg in the caddy, then flower in the closet I should be able to have all three stages going at the same time!?!???
> 
> Thanks everyone for keeping me on the path here... I get too darned excited and sometimes don't think it through thoroughly ... hmmmm... kinda like how I race sometimes too! ((ROFL)). eace:


 
Anything is possible, I don't mean to dicourage you, it's just that when I look at those beautful long roots you had going in the caddy it made me wonder if it would be a problem trying to cover them with rocks .  I have no experience on that to speak of, but people have transplanted dirt to hydro, so anything is possible.  I was just thinking, it wouldn't be hard to convert all of that to nft, with 3 inch holes in the container lids for the net pots and no medium below.


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## Stoney Bud (Nov 21, 2006)

Hey Rav, I've been kind of short for time lately. I didn't even spend an hour on here yesterday!

Well, I'm going to give you the best advice I can for your grow.

This system really isn't set up for a split grow. You can do it, but I don't know why you would want to. In the space you have, you can grow about a pound of weed in each crop. That should be enough to last you real good until the next crop is finished. Why do you want to use a separate vegging area?

The ebb and flow needs to be set up on the floor. The table should go unless you have some plan for it in the future and just don't want to take it out.

The reservoir needs to be outside the grow room. It has to have easy access to it, even if your lights are out for flowering. That's why it needs to be out of the grow area.

First, you set four ciderblocks in the four corners of the room. Then you lay two, 2x6's from one block to the other so that there is a gap between the boards for the bottom bulkhead fitting to go between. Look closely at the first pic in the first post in this thread:
click here

You'll see the cinderblock with the boards on them. You need to set your system up exactly this way. Your shelf just isn't right for this. The system will be a combined weight of about 250 pounds when full of water and rock. You don't want that on your table.

Lets slow down a little and figure out what you need for your exact setup BEFORE YOU BUY A BUNCH OF STUFF.

You need the four tubs first. Then fill one of them with the hydroton and rock mix. Then fill it to three inches below the top of the tub with a measuring pitcher so that you know EXACTLY how much water it will take to fill each one. Then multiply by four.

THEN you go and buy a reservoir that holds one and a half times as much as your tubs will hold.

This needs to be done EXACTLY like I've described. Doing otherwise will not result in the system I've spent 20 years perfecting.

After you have your reservoir, then, we'll start putting this puppy together if you decide that's what you'd like to do.

The cloning box and the reservoir need to go somewhere else. This entire room will be full of bushes. Wall to wall. There will only be the height of the blocks with the boards on top, under the tubs, and that will be full of PVC and hoses. No room for all that other stuff.

Vegging and flowering take place in the same tubs. Transplanting fully vegged plants is a bad idea in any hydro setup. It damages the plants, puts them into shock and slows their growth.

Let me know if you want to continue, or if you'd rather go with some other type of system. Ebb and Flow is a pain in the *** to set up, but once it's working, you'll be good for years of crops with virtually no maintenance.


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## Ravishing_68 (Nov 25, 2006)

I understand most of what you are telling me SB but I just don't understand the most important parts I guess.  I'm going to put this on hold for now.  I'm still going to enclose the closet with doors but for now just continue with the caddy.  Perhaps next spring I can keep on reading and maybe a lightbulb will go off ... but for now I don't want to screw up the perfection SB has demonstrated.

Thanks for all your help Stoney Bud!!! ((hugs))  eace:


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## Elephant Man (Nov 25, 2006)

Ravishing_68 said:
			
		

> I understand most of what you are telling me SB but I just don't understand the most important parts I guess. I'm going to put this on hold for now. I'm still going to enclose the closet with doors but for now just continue with the caddy. Perhaps next spring I can keep on reading and maybe a lightbulb will go off ... but for now I don't want to screw up the perfection SB has demonstrated.
> 
> Thanks for all your help Stoney Bud!!! ((hugs)) eace:


 
Okay, I've been really busy too, but if you think it would help - I have a GH Ebb and Gro that is just about to be modded and is disassembled. When I bought this thing, I knew it was probably pretty easy to build. But I bought it anyway , just to analyze it and try to understand similar methods such as Stoney's and a few homebuilt ones I found on the web.

My point being, rather than seeing you get discouraged, I can try to post DETAILED pics of this thing and I'm sure you could build one yourself.

Hopefully doing this or suggesting this has not broken any laws or forum rules, mods please let me know.
At the least, you can have a system, that certainly is not as economical or simple as Stoney's, but I'm pretty sure everyone would agree, will work. I would only offer to do this because no one else has the time or offered to help. I would not feel comfortable trying to design a system myself for you, even one based on Stoney's with simple mods to suit your application, because I do not have the experience yet.

Please accept my apologies if any disrespect or wrongdoing could be implied from this, it was not intentional.  I chose to post this as opposed to pm because I feel information shared is a very valuable resource.


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## Stoney Bud (Nov 25, 2006)

Ravishing_68 said:
			
		

> I understand most of what you are telling me SB but I just don't understand the most important parts I guess. I'm going to put this on hold for now. I'm still going to enclose the closet with doors but for now just continue with the caddy. Perhaps next spring I can keep on reading and maybe a lightbulb will go off ... but for now I don't want to screw up the perfection SB has demonstrated.



Hey Rav, everything is fine. I had to explain to you that you were going off on the wrong track with the split level grow area and including too much into your grow room. That's all.

If you want to have a continuous grow, you'll need at least twice the amount of room you have. Continuous grows are for people who smoke a lot of weed. If you use my system for continuous growing, you can have as much as a quarter pound of weed each week. That's a lot of weed.

Using my system for a complete grow, (Seedling, vegetative and flowering), you can grow about a pound every 3-4 months.

You are perfectly correct in saying that you need to understand the entire process before undertaking a real grow in it.

Lets discuss this method and what YOU want to do as far as growing. Then, we can design the system to fit your needs.

An ebb and flow system is actually a combination of many, many principles of growing, and though it looks simple, the physical actions it performs are exact and very, very precise.

The system is a PITA to build, (talk to "Lefty"), and takes an understanding of hydroponics, plumbing and a little chemistry in relation to plant biology.

The benefit of this type of grow is that once it's built properly, it's almost maintenance free. No changing of nutrient solution, no changing of media, no cleaning, no upkeep, no dirt, and very little plant maintenance.

I sure don't want to discourage you, but you need to understand how this system works before you waste your time trying to build it in a way that won't work. I needed to slow you down some so that you would understand why it needs to be as it does.

I'll wiggle into the grow room before it gets too crowded and take some pics of the plumbing part of the system. Some good close-ups will help a lot.

What I need you to do now, is explain to me what it is about the system that you don't understand now. Then, I can take one point at a time and explain it to you.

How about that?


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## Stoney Bud (Nov 25, 2006)

Elephant Man said:
			
		

> Okay, I've been really busy too, but if you think it would help - I have a GH Ebb and Gro that is just about to be modded and is disassembled. When I bought this thing, I knew it was probably pretty easy to build. But I bought it anyway , just to analyze it and try to understand similar methods such as Stoney's and a few homebuilt ones I found on the web.
> 
> My point being, rather than seeing you get discouraged, I can try to post DETAILED pics of this thing and I'm sure you could build one yourself.
> 
> ...


 
Hey Eman, what a nice offer! If we post a "how to" on a commercial hydroponic setup, there might be a very good chance that that content would make it back to the person who owns the system. That might make him/her understandably upset.

However, if you explained how the hydroponics part of it worked by using photos of it to explain the principles of hydroponics, I see nothing wrong with that. It might actually boost that persons sales.

The major difference is between saying:

Wrong way: Ok, build this exactly like in the pic. This will make one exactly like mine.

Right way: The design of this unit allows the water to be pumped from the reservoir to the plants in this manner.

Hhahahahaah, I'm sure you know what I mean. If someone decides to build one that is exactly like your example, you haven't encouraged them to do so. Explaining how it works is different then reverse engineering it for them to build or building it for them and selling it.

I can say anything I want about mine. I designed it and built it from my own studies. 

I sure appriciate your help. We need lots of hydroponics guys in the group. I'd love to hear your description of the unit you bought and see the pictures of it! 

Other people spend a lot of time designing all the other units on the market, and I learn a little more, every time I see one. Sometimes, I learn what NOT to do. Hahahahaaha.


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## Elephant Man (Nov 25, 2006)

Exactly right Stoney, I was kind of worried that even if it were legal and no members had a complaint, I felt someone at GH somewhere would mind.

This was a desperation move, being that I can't help in any other way at this time.

Somehow I think I have learned enough to mod mine, but I am a 'mad scientist' of sorts and my test room is called the 'flood' room - because it is concrete and built for drainage and I am prepared to break a few eggs .

How about I just show the process of modding it in my journal?  There should be enough there to figure out how the original was made without any really detailed pics .


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## Stoney Bud (Nov 25, 2006)

Elephant Man said:
			
		

> Exactly right Stoney, I was kind of worried that even if it were legal and no members had a complaint, I felt someone at GH somewhere would mind.
> 
> This was a desperation move, being that I can't help in any other way at this time.
> 
> ...


 
I've got to tell you, your term "flood room" cracked me up good!!!!!!

Hahahahahahahahaa, I've been there.

I see no problems with your showing pics of your system. I just wouldn't advise anyone to tell a group of almost 4,000 people how to duplicate it exactly. The guy selling it might get a little angry at that. If someone wants to try to build it, more power to them.

Thanks man. Your help will always be appreciated.


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