# First time grow



## Munkers (Jul 26, 2012)

This is my very first PLANNED grow, not let me throw seeds in the dirt and see if they grow. Ive done quite a bit of research and still am to this very day. I havent actually started but I do have a 90 watt tri band ufo LED light as well as I orded good feminized seeds, two bags of Roots organic soil which I heard works very well with first time grows with almost to none nutrients whatsoever and just need some water, and I ordered a small containter of oregonisms XL Endo/ecto mycorrhizae. I plan on buying a bottle of both budda bloom and grow but Im working with a limited budget. I am growing indoors and have ample amount of space. Just kind of curious on what others think of this for a starting point for 2 five gallon buckets and maybe some sugestions on what else I can do to improve. Remember this is my first actually thought out and studied, planned grow and im very excited to get ahold of my final product when all is said and done. I hope I got enough here to make it through from start to finish im very confident I will!:icon_smile:


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Jul 26, 2012)

IMO LED lights are worthless, you wont have nearly enough light to give good flowering growth to your plants, I would go with a HPS light... I would go with T5 lights for vegging and HPS for flowering. I would buy some nutes just incase you dont have enough to finish out flowering or counter act a deficiency if one occurs.  

Ventilation is a MUST with indoors, get a good centrifugal fan and how big of an area are you going to allocate for your grow? You might want to check out my first thread here the members have given me amazing information and it explains why LEDs arent good for flowering.

http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=61586


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## MARY-JANE (Jul 26, 2012)

:goodposting:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 26, 2012)

The Silver Bullet Special has given you some good advise. 

Sorry you did not discuss the pros and cons of LEDs with experienced growers before you purchased the UFO. The LED _may_ get you through vegging if your space is small, but it will not do for flowering.  If you want to have any kind of yield at all, save for a HPS for flowering.  The size of the light you need will depend on the size space you have.  You need a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft for flowering.

Ventilation is almost as important as your lighting.  Your plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on for proper photosynthesis.  This mean that you must exchange air, exhausting out old CO2 depleted air and bringing in fresh air.  I like to exchange the air in my space several times a minute.  

You will also need a space that you can keep absolutely 100% dark for 12 hours a day for flowering.  This means absolutely NO interruptions of the dark period.


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## Munkers (Jul 27, 2012)

I have heard both sides, that LEDs dont work or that LEDs do work. I have also SEEN LEDs fail as Well as succeed. I have personally seen single plants grown under LEDs.... As far as the grow space I have a 39"x39"x78" Mylar aero grow tent. Maybe you guys can check this video out I found on youtube from different forums and whatnot... Might not change your mind too much but I did research the lights the guy used and they seem to be pretty well built.... although I do not have the specific light I am pretty sure I can sustain a plant or two with the right attention and nutrients.

hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxPvN9ke2Xg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxPvN9ke2Xg

THe link to the lights are under the video.... Idk looks convincing BUT I also understand them trying to make it look good....

On another note im still going to give it a shot and possibly post on a few forums my results and whatnot as time goes on. Lemme know what you think.:icon_smile:


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Jul 27, 2012)

You can even see in the video those buds arent producing as a normal one would under HPS (if you check out some other members grows on here youll see the difference). 

Also, with youtube videos people could be very well growing with HPS then just throwing up the LED light just to make it look like the light is making powerhouse buds... I would just use it to assist in veg growth. 

What is the size area for growing your two plants? Hemp already stated that you need 5000lumens per square ft in your flower room you will also need 3000 lumens per sq ft when you veg growth. These are also bare minimums for good plant more light is even better!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 28, 2012)

Munkers said:
			
		

> I have heard both sides, that LEDs dont work or that LEDs do work. I have also SEEN LEDs fail as Well as succeed. I have personally seen single plants grown under LEDs.... As far as the grow space I have a 39"x39"x78" Mylar aero grow tent. Maybe you guys can check this video out I found on youtube from different forums and whatnot... Might not change your mind too much but I did research the lights the guy used and they seem to be pretty well built.... although I do not have the specific light I am pretty sure I can sustain a plant or two with the right attention and nutrients.
> 
> hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxPvN9ke2Xg"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxPvN9ke2Xg
> 
> ...



It appears that that video was made by the people that make or sell the lights.  I never pay any attention to those--simply propaganda.  I have never seen a REAL LED grow that I was impressed with.  The only grows that look even half-way decent (and they really aren't that great) are the ones made the the LED retailers and I don't trust those at all.  Like mentioned, it is very easy to manipulate results. 

It would be absolutely wonderful if a 90W LED could adequately light 10-1/2 sq ft, but the truth of the matter is that it won't.  Many have tried flowering with LEDs and found them to be wanting.  This is one of those cases where if they worked, everybody would be using them--it would be a no-brainer.  

You _will_ be able to "sustain" a plant or two.  However after putting in 3-4 months or more it is incredibly disappointing to end up with a tiny little harvest.  Yield is determined in a large part by your lighting.


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

Update to an old post: So I Decided to go ahead and give the LED a shot, heres what I got so far.... This is my setup.


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## orangesunshine (Sep 15, 2012)

please do a separate grow journal to document your experience with the LED  

MOJO your way----:icon_smile:


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

Theses pictures (In order from oldest pic to newest) is what I got going so far. I took the pictures outside the grow tent so you could see it better.... So far so good IMO, im not saying its 100% going to work, but so far ive had pretty good luck. I am giving her water that I leave in a five gallon bucket opened for longer than 24 hours to get rid of any chemicals. I also have given her root hormones, which brand I cant exactly remember at the moment but I will get back on that, and also Iguana grow. Been steady growing for about 6 almost 7 weeks now. Hows my progress so far?


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

Sorry, what do you mean? Im kinda new here....


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 15, 2012)

Your growth looks really small for almost 7 weeks. My plants are 4 times that size 7 weeks. What kind of nutes are you using and does your bucket have good drainage. They look healthy and decent growth but it just seems like your plants are growing rather slow.


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## orangesunshine (Sep 15, 2012)

Munkers said:
			
		

> Sorry, what do you mean? Im kinda new here....




you are doing it---a journal---entries include pictures with explanations of what we are looking at, time frame between the photos, what you are feeding---a road map of your grow


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

@Silver, I kinda thought they were small... although I did clip a few shades... Was told that was bad after I did it, not really sure. Also for nutes Im using Iguana Grow and heres a link for its label :http://www.planetnatural.com/planetnatural/images/iguana-juice-grow-label.pdf. Also forgot to mention, I have good drainage yes.
@Orange, oh ok lol, yes I am also doing a journal in a notebook for myself.


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## OldDaddyFedder (Sep 15, 2012)

Munkers,
  The shades/leaves are like solar panels for the plant. they gather the light and turn it into energy. Sometimes growers may clip a fan or two in the flowering stage-but different then.
Keep it green!

:48:

ODF


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

Damnit.... Lesson learned. NEVER will do that again.


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 15, 2012)

On your live link change the Http to Hxxp... Live links arent allowed on the site (just a heads up for ya). I've never heard of those nutes and I would go with a line more formulated for MJ like FoxFarms or General Hydroponics Flora line of nutes.


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

Oh ok gotcha. Also noted, although I want to finish with what I have and see how good it actually turns out then next time I will use FF or GH.


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## gourmet (Sep 15, 2012)

The plants look nice but my current Eight Miles High are between 5 and 6 inches tall at 25 days (see the attached link).  I am growing under MH as my tent is really too small for T5's.


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

Quick question, now that Ive made the mistake of cutting the fans, Im currently running 18/6. Would it hurt to change it back to 24/0 For the rest of vegging? Maybe speed it up a little with the healing?


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 15, 2012)

You always should run 24/0 during veg. 18/6 can promote more stretch than 24/0.


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## Munkers (Sep 15, 2012)

Just went out and took my light off the timer.... Also took a couple quick picks. Fresh off the film here they are....


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 15, 2012)

Looking good I would just keep lettin them go how they are now and not trim anything off. That could have been stunted them.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 16, 2012)

I highly doubt that clipping a fan leaf or 2 caused the plants to be stunted.  I am guessing that the slow growth is because of the LED and the large space you are using it in.  Your plants are really underlit.  You need to get your space substantially smaller--group all the buckets close together and get some kind of reflective walls put up to reflect light back on the plants.  You also need that light right down on top of the plants--like an inch or 2.


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## gourmet (Sep 16, 2012)

I read a side by side comparison of the growth of plants using white reflective material versus silver material.  They also measured lumens etc.  The results were that the white reflective material was better than the silver.  Just some fyi information I came across.  Might have been on this site, I don't recall.  But it was a good study using scientific methodology.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 16, 2012)

gourmet said:
			
		

> I read a side by side comparison of the growth of plants using white reflective material versus silver material.  They also measured lumens etc.  The results were that the white reflective material was better than the silver.  Just some fyi information I came across.  Might have been on this site, I don't recall.  But it was a good study using scientific methodology.



That's good to know.  I just hate mylar and do not have it anywhere.  Panda film is so much easier to work with.


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## Munkers (Sep 17, 2012)

For one, I know you guys told me already that it wasnt going to work, but I dont have the money at the moment for the lights switchover(getting rid of the LEDs), SO I went ahead and I decided to do it anyways and I want to thank you guys for all the help and tips! Anyhow,@Hemp, I can probably easily cut my room size down in half with a couple cuts on a piece of wood, but what can I do about a reflective material? I have black garbage bags and I heard those work well for reflecting light. Also I am only doing one plant at the moment since I am still learning.... Its a Delicious Fruity Chronic Juice feminized seed.
@gourmet, What could I use for a white reflective material? Was there something specific they mentioned that they used to test that? What was the material, do you know?


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## Munkers (Sep 17, 2012)

Another thing I just went and checked on her since I took the light off the timer and she filled right back in very quickly!! Only just since saturday night and now it dont look like she was even trimmed.


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## OldDaddyFedder (Sep 17, 2012)

Munkers,
get some panda film-or do what I did once. Get some plywood and some flat white paint. Use the garbage bags for something else.Glad to hear she filled back in!
What kind of light you gettin?
Just wonderin.
:48:
ODF


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 17, 2012)

Black garbage bags do not reflect at all--black absorbs light.  OldDaddyFedder has a couple of good ideas.  Flat white paint reflects very well and is readily available anywhere.  Be sure to use flat paint and not glossy.  Despite its appearance, glossy is not good.  Panda film is not expansive and can be purchased from e-bay in different sizes.  Getting your space size down and something reflective around your plants will make the most of the light you have.

Keep your eyes open for good buys.  You may run across a HPS for a killer price.  I find bargains all the time.


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## Munkers (Sep 17, 2012)

ODF thanks im looking into getting sum panda film asap, but as far as what kind of light am I getting I dont quite understand what you mean... I have a 90 watt ufo at the moment....
And hemp, I also forgot to mention earlier with putting my light closer, Ive seen everyone say I can put it right on top of the plant but I already gave that a shot and that is how I started but I noticed that it was too close and possibly stunting it? I know once I backed it up a couple of inches that it spung up quickly..... Didnt seem to be growing intil I raised it... Maybe I was thinking 5-6" off from the top might be good?


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## Munkers (Sep 17, 2012)

Lol also why is the panda film come in black or white if black is no good?
Oh, also I have white garbage bags, maybe that will work temp.?


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 17, 2012)

That spring up that you noticed was probably stretch as the plant will reach up towards the light without much new growth. I would lower it to an inch or two above the plants thats where my T5 lights are.

As Hemp mentioned black is not good and think of it like this. You wearing a black T-shirt in the sun how it is much hotter than if you were to wear a white T-shirt. The black will absorb all the light and give none back to the plants reducing your already depleted lumens further. Also when goin into flowering I'm not sure of indoor lights but it may be hotter and harder to keep temps down if you used black walls (if you used an HPS light).

I wouldnt use any garbage bags as theres a chance you wont get it completely flat on your walls giving hotspots. I would go with flat white paint (that's what I will be using) because its pretty easy to throw up a coat or two of paint.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 17, 2012)

Munkers said:
			
		

> Lol also why is the panda film come in black or white if black is no good?
> Oh, also I have white garbage bags, maybe that will work temp.?



Panda film does not come in black *OR* white--it comes in black *AND* white--black on one side, white on the other.  The white side provides reflection.  The black back provides a light proof material.

Your UFO will probably do an okay job vegging one plant.  But when it comes to flowering, LEDs do not do well at all.  If you can get your hands on a small HPS you will get more/better yield...probably substantially more.


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## Munkers (Sep 17, 2012)

Ah yes I noticed the panda film was 2 sided lol, thanks guys I did a temp fix up and cut the tent down atleast 60% in space temperarly. I am going to get sum panda film and work osmaller cabinet size space in the mean time. If I can get my hands on a cheap HPS I will probably grab it, but not neccisarly use it. No offence to your great advice you have been giving me, but this is quite interesting to me on how the final product might come out, small amount or not. First time round I think ill stick with this light. BUT as to what you guys have been telling me, I gaurentee my next grow will end up under Hps lights for flowering.


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## Munkers (Sep 17, 2012)

Please excuse the ignorance, I am kinda hard headed and set on sticking it out with the LED against all odds!!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 17, 2012)

If you are determined to use the LED all the way through, that is certainly up to you.  We would not be doing our job here, though, if we did not make you (and others contemplating using LEDs) aware of the shortcomings of LED for flowering.  LOL--I will (try) not mention lighting again.  It is your grow--you need to make _yourself_ happy.


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 17, 2012)

Hey atleast now we'll be able to have something to compare LED vs. HPS production for when others ask about LED's  it'll be interesting and after this grow you'll have some cool christmas lights!

 I've seen a grow tent set up in my hydro store that had the LED's as side lighting... No clue as to how those would work for MJ, they had pine trees growing in their tents :giggle: .


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Sep 18, 2012)

Munkers    whats up man?   rock that UFO bro... people said the same to me when i started growing with LEDs...  It will work like you say, but it wont grow you a ton of bud like the others state...      http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=47900

like others have stated previously cut your room size down to as small as possible to fit your plant/s + def paint everything flat white to maximize the light you do have...  how many plants do you have running?  just the one?

now not to be a debbie downer I originally started growing with 2 UFOs in a 2x4' tent...  If i wanted to adequately light that space i prob would have needed 4 UFOs...  I couldnt $wing 2 more UFOs so I added 2 cheap T5s into my tent and had a noticable increase in bud production by adding just 20,000 lumens of T5's...   I used the UFOs for 2 flowering cycles and then added them to my veg area and grew autos under them...  They were replaced by a 600w hps and soon then a 1000w hps...  I guess the moral of the story is if your gonna put yourself at risk + do all that this hobby requires then you wanna be rewarded with as much bud as possible...  not wait 3 month to get 12g of bud...  The bottom line is your underlit for your space...  and your never gona grow great bud being underlit, even if your using an HPS...

If you wanna make the most of that UFO get yourself 9 to 16 2litre soda bottles cut off the top and paint the bottoms black with spray paint,  I would make the grow space 2' x 2' and flower clones once the root in the soda bottles...   you should pull  a 10-15g bud from every bottle and actually have some sort of yield...  I would not flower that larger plant you have...  Id use it for clones...

Silver bullet   do you have any experience using LEDs what so ever?  lemme guess your another hps grower with blinders on?  

there are grows online where people are having A+ grows using nothing but LEDs...  IMO the only prob still is initial cost... 

but the savings in the long run is def there...   no more yearly bulb purchases...  half the power of HPS...   most report not needing a/c bc of the dramatic decrease of heat...   Ive even read grower say they water less bc of the less heat which cuts down of your nute cost as well...  

If you think that LEDs cant/dont work your just simply wrong...   The bottom line here is that hes underlit not that hes using LEDs... if he had 4 ufos in that space he'd be rockin...


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 18, 2012)

They're not half the power of an HPS a 300w led won't have the same lumen output and light penetration as a 600W HPS. My buddy I was going to be partnering with is using LEDs and hes half way through flower and is wondering why his buds arent producing with UFO's. LED's simply don't have the light intensity or penetration. The sad thing is the LED light manufacturers(sp) don't even post a lumen output they only advertise by watts of the LED itself.

I'm sure they work by your method, but what about people that have a certain plant count and cant have a bunch of small plants? For my state anything over I believe 3 plants is 15years in the slammer. I'd rather buy bulbs that arent very expensive ($40-$90 the price of an 8th-4th street price) and keep my plant count low. 

I've done my research on LEDs and for the most part it's hype. For the price of the light vs how they produce on bigger plants it wasnt worth it to me personally. It would also require smaller spaces which is a little ahrder to control your heat (yes LEDs themselves dont produce heat but the driver boards in them do, thats why they put heatsinks on them). 

P.S. My friend is using 4 180W Jumbo UFO lights in a 4x4 area the recommended space for the lights and it's still under producing compared to HPS grows I've seen.


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Sep 18, 2012)

The Silver Bullet Special said:
			
		

> They're not half the power of an HPS a 300w led won't have the same lumen output and light penetration as a 600W HPS. My buddy I was going to be partnering with is using LEDs and hes half way through flower and is wondering why his buds arent producing with UFO's. LED's simply don't have the light intensity or penetration. The sad thing is the LED light manufacturers(sp) don't even post a lumen output they only advertise by watts of the LED itself.
> 
> I'm sure they work by your method, but what about people that have a certain plant count and cant have a bunch of small plants? For my state anything over I believe 3 plants is 15years in the slammer. I'd rather buy bulbs that arent very expensive ($40-$90 the price of an 8th-4th street price) and keep my plant count low.
> 
> ...


 
Is any of your arguement proven fact?   so bc your friend isnt having good results nobody is??   how many watts are the LEDs in his unit? if they are not 3watt LEDs then the light is prob junk...   so i can see why hes having issues... 

before your argument was that they didnt work at all...  but now your just saying they dont work on large plants...?  well which is it?   

So_ they do_ work depending on your situation or do they not work at all?


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Sep 18, 2012)

Lol such hostility. You're claiming to get great results from small plants well small plant do not need as much light penetration as bigger "normal" plants meaning, hps will still out preform LED given the plant size is 24 inches due to better light penetration. I said they may work in your case but for people that need to keep plant numbers down and yield close to the same they wont work as good as an hps. 

 I'm not bashing LEDs I'm stating fasts but everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm not wasting my money on expensive led lights to save 200w of power for not that great of a plant. If they work great for you, good,  I'm not you.

Sorry didnt mean to mess up your thread if you want I can delete my posts for you.


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Sep 18, 2012)

LOL  hostility?  im as cool as the other side of the pillow.... :48:

Im just sick of seeing people gettin bashed for using LEDs...   Thats what hes got to work with so help him out... dont just tell him it aint gonna work... get an hps...  

I agree with you LEDs are not for every situation but im sure he could pull 2.5-3 zips with the soda bottle SOG in a 2x2' space with that UFO alone...

Im just glad we got ya over the hurdle of saying that they can work...


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## Munkers (Sep 18, 2012)

Now, now guys. Why dont we all just chill and blaze one up lol. Anyways, thanks for the support guys, but please do keep in mind this is my first grow. I dont care if I was handed a profesional setup and told to go nuts, I would not expect my first time to go 100%. I am on the other hand taking notes and making adjustments as you are giving me advice. No need to delete any posts or engage in a heated battle of wrong vs right, just remember this is my thread for my progress/your advice. I have many questions yet to be answered. And JustAnotherAntMarching, I do thank you for the support because I wasnt really feeling the love from anyone else when I mentioned using LEDs(Probably because most dont approve of them), but hey watcha gonna do. ON AN UP NOTE, thanks Silver and Hemp godess. I reduced space by about 60% or so and moved my light right on top about 2 inches or so away and it seemed to respond very well! I will give it another day or two and I have to water it tomorrow and then I will take some photos.

Also, whoever mentioned the watering thing(Because im to lazy to go back and look) It is true. From what Ive seen, read, or been told about watering every 2-3 days with this LED moisture is retained extremely well and stays moist for 1-2 weeks cutting down drastically on feeding and with nutes.


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## OldDaddyFedder (Sep 18, 2012)

Munkers,
Well, if an LED is what you got, then thats what you're gonna use and I can handle that. I've never used LED's myself. I've looked at some grow journals on this site where growers used them and produced some bud-and I am leaving it at that......
Right now Im looking into air-cooled 600 hps, but only if it can happen-only my shadow and I know, for the smog of uncertainty is upon me again.
let us know how things go.
Keep it green!!
:48:
ODF


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## Munkers (Sep 18, 2012)

So I was a little anxious to take some pictures because I had a couple questions, here what I took....


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## Munkers (Sep 18, 2012)

The front of it filled in quickly and looks better than it did before I lowered the light.... But why is the back of it looking empty? it because of the light or the way its tilted backward? And why is my stalk got brown spots... Its only close to the dirt in that one spot but the stalk is also curved instead of straight up... Anyone got a little help for me?


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Sep 18, 2012)

Munkers  the back is more then likely getting alot of shade since your plant is leaning alil...   she looks very healthy to me...


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## Munkers (Sep 19, 2012)

What if I tied the branch down leaning back? Maybe that would help some? I just topped her today.... Probably will only do it once.


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## Hick (Sep 20, 2012)

> Munkers whats up man? rock that UFO bro... people said the same to me when i started growing with LEDs... It will work like you say, but it wont grow you a ton of bud like the others state... http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/sh...ad.php?t=47900



well there ya' go!.. very respectable led results jaam.!


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## Munkers (Sep 20, 2012)

:cry:OH NO! I went outside just a couple minutes ago to feed my baby and now she looks like this:


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## Munkers (Sep 21, 2012)

I got a question about buying a PH tester, what kind should I get? I see a couple different kinds online but what do you guys suggest would be best to test the water/soil?


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 21, 2012)

The most affordable that is worth having is the Milwaukee PH600 but they are only good for about a year of use before they get so far off that you can't calibrate them anymore. Here is a good quality and relatively cheap meter to get you started: hxxp://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-HANNA-HI99104-99104-PH-METER-TESTER-CHECKER-/300422601645?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item45f2951bad   Just right click on the URL and click copy. then put your cursor over the search box at the top of the page and right click and click paste. then double-click over the hxxp at the beginning of the URL and type http, then hit enter and it will take you right to it.


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## Munkers (Sep 22, 2012)

Thanks Hushpuppy! Just checked it out and im just gonna go ahead and order one sinse i am in dire need. Hope it arrives quick!


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## Munkers (Sep 25, 2012)

So I went out to check on her today as her leaves were moist like it was letting out water? Only some of them were like this and more towards the top than bottom. Why is this and is it good/bad?


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Sep 25, 2012)

was there leaves touching each other where it was wet?


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## Munkers (Sep 25, 2012)

No, it just looked like moisture from a spray bottle or something...


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## Munkers (Sep 26, 2012)

OK im going to post more pics up later but I have more of them leaves now... I took off the last ones and they were all fine and new ones growing and now it just so happens that my plant was touching the light again already.... And it looks a little different but the leaves that were touching look the same yellowish.... The other ones appear to have a "burn" looking spot on them.... Ill get back with pics after my phone charges some. Also that moisture thing on the leaves still appear to be there.... Dont know what to make of it I even googled it...


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## OldDaddyFedder (Sep 26, 2012)

Take a look at this-hope it helps-change xx to tt

hxxp://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/plant_abuse_guide.php


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## Munkers (Sep 26, 2012)

Here it is...


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## Munkers (Sep 26, 2012)

And...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 26, 2012)

Oh my, they are looking a little bad.  Let's go over again what you are feeding them, how much, and how often.  How often are you watering them?  What is the source of your water?  Well water, city water, RO water....?


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## Munkers (Sep 26, 2012)

I feed them usually once a week. With the LED there is no heat so my soil stays moist much longer and I hear its not good to leave them moist/wet all the time... I've fed them twice using Iguana Juice grow and used Oregonism XL by Arura on them once applied directly to the soil in holes and watered over. I used water from the faucet. I put it in a five gallon bucket and let it sit out for well over 24 hours before using it. I've ordered a PH tester... Just got paid today so it sucks I had to wait so long but im going to need it either way... Anything else and I will let you know... I think I covered everything... She looks so terrible now compared to how she looked just a week ago and its killing me now.

Also just re-read the post. I feed it 2-3 liters at a time and shes in a 5 gallon bucket.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 26, 2012)

The Oregonism is to be mixed with water and poored into the soil.  It also appears to be a product for fruiting or flowering, not vegetative growth.

How much Iguana Juice did you use?  When did you feed it?

With organics, you are not really going to want to let the soil dry out.  It interferes with the microbial life in the soil.

Two to 3 liters doesn't seem like too much for a 5 gal bucket.  Do you water to runoff?

Do you have a fan to bring in fresh air?


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## Munkers (Sep 27, 2012)

I read the back of the bag and it said plants that when bigger and already rooted to poke 4 holes in the dirt and add in x amount per hole... I think like a ts or so and to water, thats how I did it. When I fed the iguana juice I put 4ml per liter as suggested on the bottle and i belive i did it once with 3(Liters) the first time and 2 the second... Its been atleast a week and a half since the second feeding as i gave her clean water in between... I didnt belive 2-3 liters wasnt that much but with 3 I do still get some excess when I head back the next day I usually see water on the floor....


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## Mountain209man (Sep 27, 2012)

organism is used MAINLY for veg but will NOT burn your plant unless u put WAY over the recomended amount(2-3 tablespoons per gallon reccomended on label)...maybe too much bloom hope this helps


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## Munkers (Sep 27, 2012)

I didnt over do it on the organism I did exactly what the package said. Also I havent used bloom.


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## Munkers (Sep 27, 2012)

Also I might as well throw in for future reference to me, I have some sphagnums Peat moss that appears to be really good in nitrogen.... How good would that be to use or should I mix it with the roots organic?


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## Munkers (Sep 29, 2012)

So it appears that all my PH levels are fine and I been researching the problem which may be a *K* or a *MG* deficiency. Either way im working on the issue... Also I ordered a HTG supply 400 watt HPS today off of ebay and a new light for it right off the HTG website which I will have when I finish tending to her Vegging issues. Then I can throw it up and being flowering soon. :icon_smile:  :woohoo:
Im hoping now for a full recovery in the next week and she will be :aok:!


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## Munkers (Oct 8, 2012)

OK so I disappeared for a few but I'm back. My Epsom's salts showed up today so I guess the question is do I go ahead and feed her tonight with the salt or wait till tomorrow when I give her a usual small feeding? Its usually straight water on tuesdays... Should I break the watering cycle and give it to her tonight though?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 8, 2012)

How about giving her a foliar feeding?


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## Munkers (Oct 8, 2012)

Explain please?


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## sunakard2000 (Oct 8, 2012)

gonna add my 2cents in here... one HUGE think i noticed that you did way wrong was with the light... i too have LED UFOs but they are 135watt, 7band, and as i saw you say in a previous post they generate like 0 heat... so may i ask why you have/had the UFO like 3feet away from the plants? i snug my about 2 inches away from the top canopy, you only get about a 2 or maybe 3 degree increase in temp and ONLY when your less then 1 inch away from the light... my plants did very well in veg using the 2 UFOs, and the one plant i got left (other was male Q_Q) is in flowering now but i still have the UFOs about 2-2.5 inches away from the bottom of the UFOs. that im betting without a doubt is a major reason that at 7 weeks your little plants were... well so little... they got like 0 energy from the light, yes they got "hit by the light" but its so far away the lights energy is like 0... so not much growth, im kinda suprised they didnt stretch a ton, but then again being that far away they were getting very very little light energy. 

well i guess thats about 10 cents but ooh well... look in the Indoor Grow section im going to be posting the pics i have of my grow with the LED UFOs before i go to bed tonight...

hope this is a bit helpful
as always stay safe and much green mojo to you my friend


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## Munkers (Oct 9, 2012)

I thank you for the help but if you read on you wouldve seen that I was already helped on that and I did put my light on top of her already. Also if you would take in consideration the title to this thread then you would see this was my first time, and if you notice the only real help I got in the very begining was my own research (obviously I didnt do well enough  ) and the people of this forum sayin "Dont use LEDs, they dont work correctly." So im doing what I can. Also I will check out your thread, hopefully I will learn from it. Thanks for understanding.


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## Rosebud (Oct 9, 2012)

Good morning Munkers, I have not read your whole journal but wanted to tell you what THG meant by foliar feed. It is mixing up your nutrients and put it in a sprayer and spray  directly on the leaves. 

I am an organic dirt grower and I just don't love the roots organics soil. I have used it and don't anymore. 

I am bad at figuring out nute deficiencies, but I hope you get it back on track.  I don't feed near as much as the bag or box or bottle says.  I use plain water a lot.

Feel free to ask lots of questions... Green mojo..the first grow is the hardest...not really but it sounds good.


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## Munkers (Oct 9, 2012)

Thanks much rosebud! Quick questions tho. What benefits are there to foliar feeding? I thought the plant uptakes through the roots? Also what issues did you have with RO? That way I can keep an eye out for it too?


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## sunakard2000 (Oct 9, 2012)

i wouldnt say the first grow is the hardest... maybe some other terms... your first grow is basically like a scientist testing his hypothsis for the first time, its the most informative grow if yah ask me... you learn a whole lot from the first grow... wether it comes out good or bad in some peoples cases, and just remember as the scientist fails his first experiment he doesnt get discouraged but instead goes back to the drawing board so to speak and revamps his hypothsis based on the info gathered in the first experiment... just remember everything you did that may or maynot have workd, commit it to memory and learn from it... as many a wise men have said you learn more from failure then success, so with that i give you my little piece of advice, always have fun... learning, failing, and succeding are fun XD you just gotta keep a positive outlook on your grows. 

my thread is now up with some pics... its in the Indoor Grow section and its called "My Little Grow 100% LED" check it out, and always question things, ask how and why learn learn learn. after all thats what we are all here for, even some of the seasoned vets around here are dabbling in things they never have and are still learning even with 30+ years growing under their belt


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## ShOrTbUs (Oct 9, 2012)

Munkers said:
			
		

> Thanks much rosebud! Quick questions tho. What benefits are there to foliar feeding? I thought the plant uptakes through the roots? Also what issues did you have with RO? That way I can keep an eye out for it too?



as it turns out foliar feeding works well, and FAST. especially when it comes to treating nute def.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=62280&highlight=foliar+feeding

^^^ amazing post by ozzy all about foliar feeding


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 9, 2012)

Munkers said:
			
		

> Explain please?



It looks like Rosebud and shortbus have you taken care of on the foliar feeding.  Any more questions, just post up.


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## Rosebud (Oct 9, 2012)

I didn't like the texture of RO, too rough. My plants didn't do as well as in fox farm ocean forest. The roots organic soil seemed woody and course. I really didn't like it.


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## Munkers (Oct 15, 2012)

So I'm back again with another update, I finally got my light and have it up and running. Also some pics for you guys (Yay!). She is looking OK, but not as good as she should but hopefully this will help her green up a bit lol. Also today I am starting my 12/12 because I know she is ready to go so thanks guys for all your help so far and wish me luck with the next half of the process.


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## Munkers (Oct 16, 2012)

Went out to feed my baby and took a couple quick pics of the leaves, a few of the leaves, mosty toward the top of the plant looks as you can see in the pics... The ones on toward the bottom are alot more greener but abit yellowish just doesnt look that bad toward the bottom.... Maybe a few ideas on why? I know ive kept her alive and growing this long so it cant be to bad lol.:icon_smile:


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## Munkers (Oct 31, 2012)

And so here I am again and back with pics for those of you curious on the progress of my baby, shes looking good I think so far!


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## Munkers (Oct 31, 2012)

Also a quick question about one I got growing on the bottom of the stalk, dont know if I should be worried or not... Its just the ONE branch that looks like this, kinda looks underwatered? Dont really understand myself maybe a little help please??


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## Roddy (Nov 1, 2012)

Lack of light on the bottom branch, it seems. I've had bottom branches that did this, I started thinning out the bottom (lollipop of sorts) and have not had many like that since.


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## Munkers (Nov 1, 2012)

So what do you think I should do? My plant is VERY short and bushy unlike most plants I see in pics and my stalk is very thick unlike most plants I see lol. Ive seen a couple lolipopping videos, should I do this and trim or should I just move my light a little closer? The lights about 22" away now at the moment.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 1, 2012)

I would cut that branch away as it is acting like a sucker on the plant. Those low branches that form under the bigger canopy just don't get enough light to do well enough and end up draining energy from the upper part of the plant. Just reach in with the scissors and snip it back. 

It looks like it is really doing well. I think the odd coloring that you had earlier in slide 83 seems to be gone. It looked like coloring that comes from being in cool air for awhile, or the plant started getting too cold at night. But it seems to have fixed itself. She is definitely very stout and bushy, I'm suprised she hasn't stretched some just from being in bloom cycle (unique phenotype most likely. if it stays that way to finish, it would be a good cross candidate for some that stretch bad).


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## Munkers (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks Hushpuppy, I actually decided to lolipop her and i took off those bottom branches. I also think that coloring was from getting cold at night but I now have a heater in there with her keeping it around 78... Im thinkin its around 72 or so during the day when its in the dark period. Also she has grown slighty maybe 3 inches or so in the last 3 days after I raised my light slighty... I will keep you guys updated with more in a week or 2.


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## Munkers (Nov 11, 2012)

A quick update for everyone whos curious, took a couple of pics last night and she looks good to me, only thing I noticed that dont seem good to me is she is so small.... Only measured at about 22". What do you guys think?


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## HemperFi (Nov 11, 2012)

I think she looks really tasty. You are going to have some real nice smoke pretty soon. I hope you have a clone waiting to take her place. What size pot is she in? You may want to put the next one in a bigger pot. Also, I would just do a simple Fim on the next plant and then leave it in 24/7 until it was a bit bigger going into 12/12. She looks fine. A very nice first try. Keep tweaking your set-up and keep up the good work. Well done, Munkers.

Peace


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## WeedHopper (Nov 11, 2012)

Keep on trucken.


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## Munkers (Nov 11, 2012)

Unfortuantly this being my first run I did not do clones... Definatly will the next run but I do already have fem. seeds for after im done with her. This first time was more a learning thing and Im glad I started with just one. She is in a 5 gallon pail, how much bigger should I really go? lol.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 11, 2012)

Its fine to grow from seeds but the one real benefit of growing from clone is that you know exactly what to expect from the plant each time because it is an exact duplicate. It takes some of the guesswork out of growing from seed and having to relearn the particulars of a plant. With clones, you can continually tweak your grow methods until you really dial in the optimal grow conditions for that plant so that you are making the most of its potential. You have a real nice plant there that is going to produce some very nice buds for you, but if you cloned it, you would be able to change the parameters of the grow until you got it producing at least 2x of what you will harvest this time.

By starting over with new seeds, you will have at least slightly different phenos IF the seeds came from the same plant. You will have to relearn all of the needs of this new plant, which could be very similar or very different. Don't get me wrong, many people like the variety and challenge of learning a new plant pheno But for beginners, growing the same one many times over will help you to not only optimize the plant potential, but also make it easier for you to solidify your knowledge of proper growing techniques.

I have a strain that I have been working with for over 2 years, and I am just now learning everything I need to know about it to grow it the way I like it. I mean its just a suggestion but You might like it better to try cloning on the next run and hang on to the rest of your beans for later as you can keep them for quite a while.


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## Munkers (Nov 14, 2012)

Very well noted hush, thanks. My ultimate plan was to make it though my first one from start to finish and so far so go IMO with the help of the awesome advice from fellow MPers. Didnt wanna overwhelm myself with to many my first time around. Oh and yes, as I said before I gaurentee I will be doing clones next time sinse im making a 5x5 room and upgrading to a 1000 watt light. Trust me, im learning even if the process is slow lol.  In the mean time ill keep those still curious and following updated on this one and ill most likely be doing another journal for the new one when the time comes.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 14, 2012)

I would not go any larger than the 5 gal she is in now.  Your plant is small, but I find that size has a huge amount to do with strain.  It is common for me to have a plant that is 18" next to one that is 36" or more.  Both are given the same environment, both healthy, both given the same veg time, the only difference being strain.

It is better to go slow and really learn before jumping in blind with both feet and ending up with a storeroom of ill thought out purchases and stunted plants because you were under informed.

Cloning is your next logic step.  I find I personally do the best with bubble cloners.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 14, 2012)

Hey Munkers, I forgot to say that your plant looks really good. It should produce nicely


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## Munkers (Nov 19, 2012)

So guys im back again, 35 days into flowering and as usual I took a couple pics n picked my favorites to crop up and post for those who are interested lol. Here how shes looking so far! Its got me really excited.


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Nov 19, 2012)

Munkers   lookin good man...   your in the home stretch now...


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## Iams (Nov 20, 2012)

Looking good! Keep posting the pics!:icon_smile:


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## lowrydergrower775 (Nov 20, 2012)

those pics look bomb man keep it up and soon you will be tasting the flavors of success lol


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## Munkers (Nov 20, 2012)

Thanks guys gonna keep the updates rolling right til the end. The website I bought them from says flowering is 50-55 days so Im already half way! I wanna TASTE her so bad lol.


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## Munkers (Nov 20, 2012)

Sooooooo..... My ******* broke a branch off my baby.... I was gettin high and showing my brother my progress and I moved it a little to far down I guess.... So I snipped some fan leaves off it only n I rigged it hangin up on a string... Did what I could on the spot lol. So I guess the question is.... If I dry it out properly is this mature enough to smoke?? Some of the hairs on here are already starting to amber but it is very little.... Should I trim it up completly and dry it? SMH.....Cant belive my ******* did that.....


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## Munkers (Nov 20, 2012)

LOL cant say dumb butt....


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 20, 2012)

Accidents happen, but......why were you clipping fan leaves off?

The color of the hairs has little to do with maturity.  You really need to look at the trichs to determine maturity.  However, at this point, yes, trim and dry.  It may not be at its peak, but it will be something.  A preview of better things to come.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 20, 2012)

Don't beat yerself up too much, $h!t happens to the best of us.


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## Munkers (Nov 20, 2012)

No no, not clipping fan leaves on the plant. I mean I broke it and trimmed the fan leaves off that branch...


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## Locked (Nov 20, 2012)

Lol...we have all done things like this bro. Man, if I typed out all the dumb things I have done in the last 3 years my fingers would be tired. 
Yeah if a fan leaf or two got messed up, trimming them is not going to be a problem. You just don't want to go clipping healthy fan leaves. (Lets hope this doesn't get that argument going again)


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## williamraed (Nov 27, 2012)

You have to set excellent and enough light to provide excellent blooming development to your vegetation. Although LED is one of the best light as per my perspective but enough watt is essential to any kind of plant.


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