# Resurgam -grow log- (including "Flouros "PAR" Excellence?")



## Lonewolf

Think I know sufficient about the causes of my recent failure to start again having addressed most of the issues concerned. A U.K headsite owner (recently chucked off Nochex's books for being...well..a headshop) was nice enough enough to double-prioritise the delivery so that I could get my lunar planting rescheduled (both grows were started on the new moon). I have put in larger vents and another heater, "plugged" in two new hooks in the wardrobe ceiling (above the shelf from which I will suspend the lights and under which I am siting my frost-protectors for the first stages of the grow) and provided ceiling fittings for both frost protectors also.
*A word of Warning* many wardrobe doors are made of compacted fibre-board this material is (I gather) highly carcinogenic -it certainly fucked my lungs up- so use a mask _then_ use some mask-ing tape to seal the hole and avoid particles getting on to the growth medium and plants.*
I have recently bought both 200w frost protectors and my new quartz heater** from suppliers of Chinese made kit. Don't tell me "Communism ain't working" because this stuff is both value for money and solid quality, I believe the new "Cloakroom De-humidifiers" marketed by "B&Q" may also be one of their's (another word of warning however, stock from these suppliers has a habit of disappearing from the shelves and not returning if demand is insufficient first time out, there was a 400w but not anymore -that's Capitalism for you comrades-).

S

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*I vacuum it out and _"breathe"_ the room eventually, see later post. 

**Hhhhm..heating quartz? I broke mine. 



Should do fine (now), although I hope to purpose build in the living room eventually so that I can hang my clothes somewhere other than my now overcrowded airing cupboard. How many plants can one realistically get (inc. SOG) in a 0.555 m2 box (it is at least nearly 3m tall)?


For those of you who thought I must be crazy the answer is about eight given the S.O.G requirement of about one square foot per-plant.


That said to my point, I Dysoned (vacuumed) out the paper honeycomb between the door panels, wearing a mask and goggles (on and off) and with my windows open and air-extractors on today. This fiber-board is incredibly nasty and pernicious stuff, it becomes invisible as particles (never drill lots of it!), burns young plants and settles in the lungs where I believe it starts to culture on lung tissue. Holy **** someone should tell people! So I will post a useful safe removal method...once I've got my breath back. 















-


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## Dewayne

is it cause i'm high, or does this not make sense? lol...

~Burn One~
Dewayne


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## Lonewolf

Hey, your stoned! (you'll get used to the style)




These are F1 hybrids from land race strains (in this case genetics from Himachal Pradesh and North India). So far I would say watch out they like higher germination temperatures than most and can stand (given enough airflow) temperatures up to 38c. She may be a "Speed Queen" (flowering period 50-55 days) but she's not the easiest of these guys strains to grow.


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## Draston

all I see is don't steal our bandwidth pictures from the shroomery...


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## Lonewolf

Draston said:
			
		

> all I see is don't steal our bandwidth pictures from the shroomery...


 
After what the Picasa did to my Thunderbird?
 In any case it was at the suggestion of  some on the shroomery that I try elsewhere (as marijuana growing is now considered _passe _on the shroomery because they know it all). Yeah, but ask them what photosynthetically available radiation (P.A.R), lunar planting or commutated circuits are and they don't have a clue (or at least don't exhibit any interest) .


 P.S God Knows it's difficult to post photos on this site. Anyone give me any pointers as to what I'm doing wrong?


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## Draston

I actually think its pretty easy to post pictures on this site... Just click manage attachments and upload the pics, click close window and submit reply... done.


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## Mutt

click the link in my sig. for resizing pics.

Yes you are right, that fiberboard is harmful. Some substrates such as MDF and HDF contain formaldihide which is very carcinegenic. The inner core "honey comb" can be made from several types of material from plastics to cardboard.

PAR is very relevant in growing anything. It is overlooked how much nutrients the plant receives from light and the spectrum required.

Can you elaborate why you grow indoors per the lunar cycle. I'm curious on your points on that.

Also your pictures can only have a maximum size of 800X600 pixels.

On a final note:
Shroom growing is a total different beast than MJ so many might not know or even care about MJ. But we here on this forum will only allow posts dealing with the cultivation of MJ. Please leave all mushroom cuultivation discussion at Shroomery


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## Lonewolf

Draston said:
			
		

> I actually think its pretty easy to post pictures on this site... Just click manage attachments and upload the pics, click close window and submit reply... done.


 
What threw me was the posts not appearing on preview, different system that's all (they really should appear first you know).

L


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## Lonewolf

Mutt said:
			
		

> click the link in my sig. for resizing pics.
> 
> Yes you are right, that fiberboard is harmful. Some substrates such as MDF and HDF contain formaldihide which is very carcinegenic. The inner core "honey comb" can be made from several types of material from plastics to cardboard.
> 
> PAR is very relevant in growing anything. It is overlooked how much nutrients the plant receives from light and the spectrum required.
> 
> Can you elaborate why you grow indoors per the lunar cycle. I'm curious on your points on that.
> 
> Also your pictures can only have a maximum size of 800X600 pixels.
> 
> On a final note:
> Shroom growing is a total different beast than MJ so many might not know or even care about MJ. But we here on this forum will only allow posts dealing with the cultivation of MJ. Please leave all mushroom cuultivation discussion at Shroomery


 
Not a psilocybe will escape my libs....

_Lunar _oh yeah the more sensitive the kit the more you'll notice the influence of the lunar cycle. My cock ups forced a slight error recently and I will have to wait a quarter to sort it out (honestly). Clue: always plant waxing _and _transplant on the quarter _don't _during the wane and if you miss the new you won't get the plants to flower for the next _full_ one and you'll have to veg 'em longer even if you have planted on the waxing moon (work it out).

L

Better now and ready to pop! However you will note the nutrient deficiency (Nitrogen) in some. I am currently putting this down to original inimical toxin impaction (fibre board adhesive) and slightly smaller pots (on the worst affected). I have been liquid feeding Organic Seaweed Solution and powdered bat guano trying to "pump" the nutes in before I go to flower. 



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(Ed's note: I'll reproduce this mostly in full and answer questions as we go. You won't want to make these mistakes so read on -the answer to the above is complex but add the wrong composts and some advice on ph that belonged in a hydro shop and you'll get the reason for the above -and the crappy results later-).



My second lot of seeds went to flower yesterday -I've had alot of problems with fibre board adhesive. I did not use powdered bat guano in the soil of the larger pots following advice -a mistake possibly although the smaller pots seemed to be suffering worse (at first)- instead providing it as "tea" with pure Organic Seaweed Solution (no additives). I ph adjust my spring water with Organic Apple Cider vinegar and foliar fed with Organic Seaweed Solution on the two consecutive nights before going to flower. You cannot see it with the resolution restriction of a small digi-cam but some of the leaves on my largest plant show some "brown spotting" too, panicking I have added some powdered guano to the trays and gave the largest plant a little shot of "Earth Juice (Bloom)" today. Restricted for space I was forced to veg three of the nine that took in smaller pots, however I have gone to flower early and hope to transplant them as soon as they are sexed.


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## DLtoker

Looks like you're having fun!


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## Mutt

What is your PH at?
You seem to have added a lot. Just curious because "N" def. when I fertilize (organic or chem) is ussually when my PH is amiss and is locking things out.

Notice Florous and PAR.

What lights are running out of curiousity?
In veg. I always run (2) 4 bay fix. 3 soft white and 5 cool white.


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## Lonewolf

Mutt said:
			
		

> What is your PH at?
> You seem to have added a lot. Just curious because "N" def. when I fertilize (organic or chem) is ussually when my PH is amiss and is locking things out.
> 
> Notice Florous and PAR.
> 
> What lights are running out of curiousity?
> In veg. I always run (2) 4 bay fix. 3 soft white and 5 cool white.


 

400w white/blue for veg 325 red for flowering (waiting on another 200).

Oh yeah and the ph lock was because I was given the figures for hydro  not soil (see above).

This was taken about a week or so ago (the original starting point of this thread was 120 days ago).....

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..cute huh?


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## Lonewolf

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Soil Protocol Issues...
I will endeavour never to use water retentive composts again (those vegging in the box are in BQ finest "peat free water retentive") and certainly not use "New Horizon" Organic Peat Free the ph is _all wrong (the two "big" girls in the "TempT" -temporary tent- were germinated and started in it, by the time they went into the "TempT" however I had realised my mistake and transplanted ASAP). There's one nice young flowerer catching up the other two in there which wasn't started in "New Horizon" and is big and vigourous -especially for an almost certainly "femmed" F2 seed from a "Hermie"-. 

















































_


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## Lonewolf

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4 weeks under 400w blue/white compact fluoros before going to flower "Speed Queen".


I have been attempting to "sort the wheat from the chaff" on this one for a while. I've got 400w of veg bulb and (in total) about 450w of flower bulb for my plants utilising a properly appointed 3m high growbox approx. 0.5m sq (small I know). Can anyone out there with some experience let me in to what must be a bit of a growing secret (a friends bad advice may have just cost me the sex of at least three plants)? Is it the heat from HPS that makes the diff? Should I keep my frost protectors on daytime to boost heat (walls are matt not Mylar)? Combination growing has been suggested (one veg bulb one flower) but When I tried combining the two (for just a couple of hours one morning having switched one bulb back to veg the night before) they finished sexing (yeah, that was stupid) in two hours and left me with four plants only one of which is now recognisably female, however the "Soft Secrets" article he read suggested spectrum combi lighting would be better, what gives?
I quoted the guy who grew his AK47 under flouros only (and showed his pics) on another site (this one Ed.), does anyone know who it was?



Response;

Im not sure what you are saying.
But combined spectrum lighting is a good thing, but not absolutly necessary. And I dont believe it has alot to do with sex, I have heard that.

The "secret" is lumens, Floro's dont have the lumens needed for penetration for big fat dense flowers.
HPS is best for flowering, but ive used MH with very good results.

Keep your grow box at ~75 F regardless of what kind of light you choose.


I'm not sure your spectral understanding is complete. However on the subject of lumens how does 200w of flouro compare to 200w of HPS or halide? How many lumens is 400w HPS/square metre (then I will be able to work out how much flouro I need/metre which is my current problem).

Response;


I think a 200w cfl puts out something like 12000 lumens. The 250w HPS puts out about 28,500 lumens. A 400w HPS puts out about 55,000 lumens. With two 200w cfls you're using 400w and still getting less lumens than a single 250w HPS. HPS fixtures are a lot more efficient that the cfls will be. Go with an HPS if you can. You'll get better results too.

P.S Temperatures given both here and in the following post are for Winter/Spring. In Summer I have to vigourously fan the flouros to allow me to get them close enough to the plants! Ed. 








"200w envirolites with red for flowering and blue for grow or veg stages, Plants need light in the correct spectrum, which is proven to be between 400 & 700 Nana Wave, and Envirolites produce high output light in exactly this spectrum. There is no wasted light, unlike HID and HPS lamps were much of the light cannot even be seen or used by the plant. 
Envirolites give 100% PAR (Photo synthetically Active Radiation) high output light and are used successfully for all propagation, vegetative or flowering stages."


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## Mutt

lookin great lonewolf


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## Lonewolf

"200w envirolites with red for flowering and blue for grow or veg stages, Plants need light in the correct spectrum, which is proven to be between 400 & 700 Nana Wave, and Envirolites produce high output light in exactly this spectrum. There is no wasted light, unlike HID and HPS lamps were much of the light cannot even be seen or used by the plant. 
Envirolites give 100% PAR (Photo synthetically Active Radiation) high output light and are used successfully for all propagation, vegetative or flowering stages."

So what does this **** mean? 


and this....

"Light & Light Measurment 

Light, its intensity, quality, its colour, spectrum, wavelength are therefore all-important factors, but how do we measure light and what are the most important components?

Light is measured in photons (which we, or at least I, do not really understand). Light actually hits objects, just like a spray of water, and the sun emits lots of light photons ~ to give you an idea of how many; the sun hits our body with over 12,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 photons every second and a plant needs about 20 photons to make a finished molecule of sugar. 

So our scientists can count the number of photons hitting the plant and even predict how much of this energy will convert into flowers or fruits. Each industry has its own way of measuring light. Photographers use a light meter, the lighting industry uses lumens or lux and the gardening industry uses PAR. All are only measurements; the actual light coming from a lamp or the sun does not change ~ only the methods we use to measure are different. 

Light Spectrums & Colours 

Light from the sun is ideal but it's not the same as artificial light, where output quality, spectrum etc varies upon the type of lamp and how it is used. Many growers think that more lumens = better growth / yields, when in fact artificial light, even at its best in a HID or HPS lamp in not so good in terms of colours. Much of the light from the bulb is not used by the plant, mainly because it is not in the 400 to 700 nw (nanawave) spectrum, and plants can only see and use light in this range. Light quality and its colours are as important as lumens. 

Light, as seen by plants is not a single colour but separate bands of active colours and the plant senses each colour-band of light as a separate signal. Each band of colour has a different effect on plants and the following are only a few of the functions which each band of light promotes.

Blue Light (350  500 NW) powers chlorophyll production, powers cell actively, energies the stomata movement and makes the plant follow light.

Green / Yellow Light (500  650 nw) ~ not much action from these bands of light.

Red Light (600  700 NW) makes sugar from CO2, powers chloroplast production, signals light and dark times among other functions.

Strong blue and red light photons (as above) are also needed for good carbon dioxide uptake.

The PAR scale measures all these coloured photons between 400nw & 700nw, the critical range for plants, as this is only range that plants can use light. If it is not in this range then it's wasted light. 

PAR 

For growers PAR is all-important ~ and as important as lumens! PAR stands for > Photosynthetic Active Radiation.

Photosynthetic, the light sensed by a leaf pigment.

Active, the light that causes the leaf pigment to become active for making energy

Radiation, another word for light & photon energy

PAR is a measurement scale used internationally as a metric light measurement and is becoming more and more relevant to growing and greenhouse light measurement. Why is it important to you?

PAR is the measure of light that a plant actually senses and uses, and it is the light the plant sees and can use that is more important then the actual output lumen of the grow lamp! 

* A large HID lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if it's too far away from your plant most are wasted (remember light intensity diminishes with distance) In addition the light a plant can use from these lamps is limited because the plant cannot see or use it because it is in the wrong spectrum.

So the main value of the PAR measurement is that it is the only measure that takes into account the actual light and light colours that the plant uses to energise its pigments and generate sugar energy, and its the sugar that makes your plants grow and produce such sweet fruits!

PAR and Fluorescent Lamps

In the past fluorescent lamps were always known to have excellent 'daylight' colour output but not the same photon power as HID / HPS lamps. The spectrum from fluorescents was ideal for propagation/seedlings but not for real time growing, because they were small watt versions and did not have the lumen / photon output. (i.e. an average household fluorescent tube is only about 35 watts. Nice spectrum but low light output! ) 

HID and HPS lamps have large lumen / photon output but are poor on colours omitted, but these lamps were the best available lamps at the time. However they do generate lots of heat and can be expensive to operate. They also need separate ballasts, control contacts and systems.

Envirolite CFL Lamps (CFL = Compact Fluorescent Lamps)

The development of high-output compact fluorescent means you can now get the correct colour spectrum, always associated with fluorescents, but with much higher light output. This means that CFL's are now capable of much, much higher lumen output with all the benefits of the ideal, spectrum output.

Photon strength is still not as strong as HID Lamps (although with our new reflectors we are getting there) but because these new lamps generate much less heat they can be placed just inches of the leaves, and this is a very, very important factor when using grow lamps

Light Intensity 

Light intensity diminishes the further it has to travel. This is the same for HID, CFL or your normal household lamp. If you hold a light meter up close to any lamp and then slowly lower the meter, even a few inches, you will see the light measurement reduces dramatically. (If you can borrow, beg, steal or get access to a light meter please try this ~ you will be extremely surprised at the rate at which the light intensity reduces over a short distance)

Light from an HID or HPS lamp reduces by half for every foot it is away from the plants. So if your lamps are 2' or 3 above your plants much of the light is wasted. The problem with HID lamps is they are so hot you cannot place them close to your plants and much of the light, and your money, is wasted.

One benefit of using high-out put CFLs is that they do not generate as much heat and can be kept almost on top of the plants producing the exact 100% PAR light, with no loss of intensity. So if you position these new lamps close to the leaves you get the benefit of 100% PAR light in the correct 400nw to 700nw range, giving the plant the correct light colours and light quality.

Envirolite Summary

Envirolites are effective, energy-saving, reliable, low heat generating horticultural grow lamps, giving excellent results and lower operating costs for all indoor growers.

Plants need light in the correct spectrum, which is proven to be between 400 & 700 Nana Wave, and Envirolites produce high output light in exactly this spectrum. There is no wasted light, unlike HID and HPS lamps were much of the light cannot even be seen or used by the plant. 

Envirolites give 100% PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) high output light and are used successfully for all propagation, vegetative or flowering stages. 

Envirolites do not generate excessive heat and can be used directly over plants. This is the secret of growing with Envirolites, positioned directly above, just 3 cm or 4 cm, the top of the plants! Unlike HID lamps, this new generation, grow lamps will not burn your plants.

This is a real advantage compared to growing with HID lamps, as there is no wasted light, which occurs when HID lamps are positioned high above plants. Envirolites give 100 % PAR, correct spectrum, high lumen light directly on top of your plants - where they need it!

We are currently waiting for the independent results of a technical research program carried out by Sheffield University on comparisons (lumen, PAR, spectrum output, heat generation, operating costs etc) with HID / HPS lamps. The same research will monitor grow results using both types of lamps. We are extremely confident that the results of this research will surprise many growers and confirm that Envirolite / CFL lamps which provide high-output lumens with 100% PAR will become the next generation of light systems for all growers."


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## Lonewolf

So O.K lets "cut throught the crap";
The answer we need is to this question....
"If 400w/m sq of HPS produces 400-450g dry weight of bud for 55,000 lumens how much of this is within the PAR spectrum?"
Once we know that we know how much flouro to use (n'est pas?).


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## tcbud

i dont know anything about light, but you are right on when it comes to the lunar stuff. the rule of thumb is, above ground crops plant at the full moon, below ground crops plant at the dark of the moon.  i had no idea that it held for indoor growing tho.
i read the stuff about light and for some reason, it seems like a foriegn language.  i need to study up on it....
good growing
tcbud
the plants look great lonewolf


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## Mutt

> Horticultural Applications (link):
> CFLs entered the horticultural market recently and as any recent technology have been somewhat misunderstood and misapplied. As a result, CFLs have earned a relatively mixed and perhaps poor reputation. Due to their relatively high cost and low lumen output, CFLs are not an ideal replacement for HID lighting in horticultural applications. Aside from cloning, for which they are ideally and naturally suited due to their broad-spectrum light and low heat contribution, the killer application for CFLs is supplementary lighting. That is, to use the best characteristics of CFLs in conjunction with the best characteristics of the best HID lights, namely HPS lamps. CFLs offer the broadest light spectrum of any class of practical lighting technology. When equipped with a premium tri-phosphor coating that broadens the light emission even further, CFLs produce an almost flat spectral curve that can be designed to compensate for specific spectral deficiencies of the high-lumen HPS bulbs that form the heart of most successful high-yield gardens. Additionally, because CFLs are relatively cool burning, they are ideal for 3-D lighting whereby the CFLs are physically inserted into the plant canopy in order to light the sides of plants so that more complete fruit development can take place on the lower fruiting sites as shown in Figures 4 and 5- 3-D lighting applications. The result is a garden that produces the most.



Here is a great link on the spectral properties of several lamps in comparison to HPS. LINK


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## Lonewolf

I will avoid BQ peat free in future it's water retentive nature is inimical  to (especially fluoro) growing -be warned- _and _it cultures shrooms like mad -bugger-. I'm looking at some light Playgron for next out (two huge boys already, I'll never waste my time again).


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## Lonewolf

tcbud said:
			
		

> i dont know anything about light, but you are right on when it comes to the lunar stuff. the rule of thumb is, above ground crops plant at the full moon, below ground crops plant at the dark of the moon. i had no idea that it held for indoor growing tho.
> i read the stuff about light and for some reason, it seems like a foriegn language. i need to study up on it....
> good growing
> tcbud
> the plants look great lonewolf


 
I use new _or_ full (thanks for the root crop info I didn't know that) and don't touch them on the wane. Do you think you get better results planting on the full?


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## Lonewolf

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Not All are "TempT" pictures (I'm still ironing out the kinks in the "TempT 2" design) -self-ballasting on to ceramic fluoros *don't* try this with HID, HPS or mercury halide-.


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## Lonewolf

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The "Goblin'" up close and personal. 

(looks like 4 maybe 5 ladies in the box from 7, not bad for regular -and two big lads I might have held on to for too long (doh!) we shall see-).


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## Lonewolf

Oh yeah, on the fibre board adhesive question -you really seriously do not want to breathe this stuff!- the trick must be this -having experimented as I gained familiarity with the substance (don't ask)-, as follows; "Minimise any sawing or drilling, score the area with a sharp knife -nice and deep- several times, then see if you can insert a blade and gradually enlarge the hole -this stuff has a paper honeycomb between two layers of fibre board-, chances are you will only be able to cut one side at a time so using as tough and sharp a blade as possible -not serrated if you can help it, use a "BOA Versa" type saw if you must- and -as for all procedures involving this crap wear a mask (at least)- cut/saw your way through -keep any drilling to an absolute minimum and ventilate-. If you cannot get through however score as deeply as you can before attempting to punch the stuff through -whilst also attempting not to split the veneer and give the game away-. Once you have done this use a good vacuum cleaner and get rid of the stuff!, especially inside the door.





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_Here's _one _I_ prepared earlier!
 You will need wire coat-hangers for both the Goblin and the fermentation cage...._in fact however _you do not need to move the cage to maintain temperature (as I had thought), the kit will produce at approx one bubble/second for 2-4 weeks at anything between approx 22-32 centigrade (keep it between 24-29 for best results). The rule seems to be 300g sugar/litre (try it!).
 Secongly PVA your venting space and fill with folded cardboard this imbolisies the MDF dust and seals the wound.
The 200w frost protectors have mounting screws on the inserted plank to allow variable height placement, the vents are velcroed over with black denim at night.

P.S Officianados will be pleased to note my 2.5 w ultra-quiet computer fan is now pushing air out through the _top_ vent.


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## Lonewolf

tcbud said:
			
		

> i dont know anything about light, but you are right on when it comes to the lunar stuff. the rule of thumb is, above ground crops plant at the full moon, below ground crops plant at the dark of the moon. i had no idea that it held for indoor growing tho.
> i read the stuff about light and for some reason, it seems like a foriegn language. i need to study up on it....
> good growing
> tcbud
> the plants look great lonewolf


 





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## Lonewolf

Babyish hermie progeny and her less favoured sister under my old 124w flowering fluoros (used for my aloes originally) and a 40w energy efficient supplement in the "TempT" (where I hope to start vegging 5 Mango under 400w of vegging fluoro on the next new moon -I would wait for the full this time but staggered growing _ya know !_-). Peace.
 Inside the box I've reverted to 12 hours from eleven (slightly dodgey I know, balance those hormones!) and am fanning them today (it's warmer at the moment) to strengthen the branches (having rotated them this time to get even development with plenty of light penetration). The CO2 kit has been re-inoculated and is now doing what I aim for, chucking out a 5ml sq (or _round_) bubble every second


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## Lonewolf

Branching well now (well two of 'em are), I'm fanning to strengthen the branches and getting the flouros in the middle of 'em following some to-the-limit stressing (note two have _folded_ not bent and they are both doing well). In terms of P.A.R they are over-catered for for the power of the fluoros and floorspace, so please bear this in mind when I post the results (400w/sq m -minimum recommended by "Envirolite"- vs. 648w/ sq m -my usage-*).



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*n.b This means I am using 324w in 0.5m sq.


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## Lonewolf

Lonewolf said:
			
		

> "_Lunar _oh yeah the more sensitive the kit the more you'll notice the influence of the lunar cycle. My cock ups forced a slight error recently and I will have to wait a quarter to sort it out (honestly). Clue: always plant waxing _and _transplant on the quarter _don't _during the wane and if you miss the new you won't get the plants to flower for the next _full_ one and you'll have to veg 'em longer even if you have planted on the waxing moon (work it out)."
> 
> However harvesting on the wane may not be so problematic (I would greatly appreciate anyone with any expertise on this subject adding their understanding to ours on this thread as I am sure many people are very interested in making harmony with natural energies part of their growing programme).


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## Lonewolf

Nice set up with the 5 Mango and 1 Speed Queen wolfie however have one 200w veg fluoro gives up the ghost after you've taken the picture and bollocks!
 One left, so I might be forced to supplement this one with a Sylvania 75w (or two, if the other goes before I've finished). I'm now hoping the reds hold out, at least until I've finished the SQs (which are doing _o.k_)
 However guys..
1. Plagron contains peat (yes _peat_).
2. How difficult can an F1 hybrid from landrace strains be to  grow -respectfully- under fluoros (_very, don't get anything even a little wrong_)?
3. You _don't_ get out for nowt! SQs ain't that easy organic fans, take note if you want to grow 'em.
 Now who out there wants to produce us a decent range of peat free MJ soils? Speak up...



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## Lonewolf

The Goblin hunkering down for my five Mango and one SQ. I've ordered a 100w Sylvania Vegging Reflector for supplementation having lost one 200w fluoro. When I asked "Envirolite" they said fluoros can last anything between 6-18 months! They did however also warn me not to get the integral ballasts wet or allow dirt in etc. (not something I'm really guilty of) as you can bust your fluoros. So bollocks whatever happened that's one 200w fluoro dead after far less than six months continuous use.


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## Bubby

:bump: 

Where'd ya go lonewolf?


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