# How reliable is sexing by opposing or alternating nodes?



## DonJones (Nov 16, 2009)

I saw the posts about males having opposing nodes (growth directly across from each other) and females having alternating nodes (growth on on one side of the stalk/branch and the grow alternating from one side to the other).

My question is really two parts.  

First how reliable is this indication of sex?  I know all of my females clones have alternating nodes but never having grown from seed I have never had a male to look at.

Second, assuming that the alternating nodes is a reliable indication of being a female, how soon does this show up?  How many sets of opposing nodes should I see before I decide it is a male and pull it?

If this arrangement of the nodes is reliable for sexing, it seems like you would see it long before seeing the flowers.

Thanks for your help.  I owe more than I can ever repay to the members of these forums for sharing their knowledge with me.

Good smoking everyone.


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## Locked (Nov 16, 2009)

I always thought alternating nodes is only a sign of sexual maturity and not an indication of male or female...that is determined by preflowers and whether or not they are hairs or balls....I know I just had two plants turn out to be male and they both had alternating nodes but also yam bags...


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## LEFTHAND (Nov 16, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> I saw the posts about males having opposing nodes (growth directly across from each other) and females having alternating nodes (growth on on one side of the stalk/branch and the grow alternating from one side to the other).
> 
> My question is really two parts.
> 
> ...


 
*hey bro.. just take a cutting off the plant you wish to find out fem/male... and put the cuttign in water/cloner/rockwool..... 12/12 for 10 days you will know for sure... which is male or not... one can do this to a plant with 3-4 tops on it.. ..*
*take care play safe..*
*LH*


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## OldHippieChick (Nov 16, 2009)

LEFTHAND said:
			
		

> *hey bro.. just take a cutting off the plant you wish to find out fem/male... and put the cuttign in water/cloner/rockwool..... 12/12 for 10 days you will know for sure... which is male or not... one can do this to a plant with 3-4 tops on it.. ..*
> *take care play safe..*
> *LH*


 
Hmmmmm - can someone support/expand on or argue against this statement please? This is good to know if it's true.


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## BlueNose (Nov 16, 2009)

LEFTHAND said:
			
		

> *hey bro.. just take a cutting off the plant you wish to find out fem/male... and put the cuttign in water/cloner/rockwool..... 12/12 for 10 days you will know for sure... which is male or not... one can do this to a plant with 3-4 tops on it.. ..*
> *take care play safe..*
> *LH*



If you have a plant big enough to take cuttings from, wouldn't you see sex within 10 days anyhow?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 16, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> My question is really two parts.
> 
> First how reliable is this indication of sex?  I know all of my females clones have alternating nodes but never having grown from seed I have never had a male to look at.
> 
> Second, assuming that the alternating nodes is a reliable indication of being a female, how soon does this show up?  How many sets of opposing nodes should I see before I decide it is a male and pull it?



LOL--where in the world did you read that?  ALL plants have alternating nodes.  It is a sign of sexual maturity and has NOTHING at all to do with the sex of a plant.  Question #2 is now moot.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 16, 2009)

OldHippieChick said:
			
		

> Hmmmmm - can someone support/expand on or argue against this statement please? This is good to know if it's true.



Yes, this is basically true.  However, a plant will not show sex until it is sexually mature,  which is denoted by alternating nodes.


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## DonJones (Nov 16, 2009)

I apologize.  I found the original post "NODES AND SEXING" in General Indoor Growing page 9 last post 10-30-09, where there was a picture of 2 plants, on with alternating nodes labeled Female and another one with "PARALLEL/OPPOSING NODES" labeled Male.  However, later posts said that this only indicated sexual maturity and not which sex they actually were.

Hey, I'm just trying to find the earliest way I can to sex so I can cull them out and plant more because we are under a strict plant limit for medical growers.

Sorry guys.

This brings up another question, is this parallel.opposing nodes versus alternating nodes a reliable method to determine when to flower?  IE, when you see alternating nodes they are ready to flower when ever you are satisfied with their size but parallel/opposing nodes means they aren't ready to switch regardless of their size?

Once again I apologize for misunderstanding the original posting.

See I told you guys and gals that I made more mistakes than most of you.

Good Smoking


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## BlueNose (Nov 16, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> This brings up another question, is this parallel.opposing nodes versus alternating nodes a reliable method to determine when to flower?  IE, when you see alternating nodes they are ready to flower when ever you are satisfied with their size but parallel/opposing nodes means they aren't ready to switch regardless of their size?



Correct, alternating nodes let you know that the plant will begin the flowering process, you can put an immature plant into a 12/12 cycle but it will not actually flower until it has reached maturity.


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## 2Dog (Nov 16, 2009)

I determine when to flower by size...I flower at 18/24 inches...sometimes bigger never smaller. everone has different desires on when to flower, some people go by age...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 16, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> I apologize.  I found the original post "NODES AND SEXING" in General Indoor Growing page 9 last post 10-30-09, where there was a picture of 2 plants, on with alternating nodes labeled Female and another one with "PARALLEL/OPPOSING NODES" labeled Male.  However, later posts said that this only indicated sexual maturity and not which sex they actually were.
> 
> Hey, I'm just trying to find the earliest way I can to sex so I can cull them out and plant more because we are under a strict plant limit for medical growers.
> 
> ...



No need to apologize.  You have just had some interesting threads about some kind of strange practices   And I don't think this is any reason to believe that you make more mistakes than the rest of us (well me at least).  That is how we learn.  

Alternating nodes are simply a sign that the plant is sexually mature and is ready to flower.  I am like 2dog.  I go by size.  The size depends partially on the strain.  I know that more Sativa dominant strains will stretch far more and need to be put in when they are shorter.  I have had some Indicas that hardly stretch at all.  Or if they start running out of headroom in the veg closet.


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## Growdude (Nov 16, 2009)

LEFTHAND said:
			
		

> *hey bro.. just take a cutting off the plant you wish to find out fem/male... and put the cuttign in water/cloner/rockwool..... 12/12 for 10 days you will know for sure... which is male or not... one can do this to a plant with 3-4 tops on it.. ..*
> *take care play safe..*
> *LH*



This is what I have done, take the clone and put right into 12\12.


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## legalize_freedom (Nov 16, 2009)

growdude, you don't have to wait for the roots to develope first?...just put it in 12/12 from cut and it will sex?  I've never heard of this, I thought they needed to at least root first with 24 hrs of light?


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## cmd420 (Nov 16, 2009)

2Dog said:
			
		

> I determine when to flower by size...I flower at 18/24 inches...sometimes bigger never smaller. everone has different desires on when to flower, some people go by age...


 
I always go by size....if you have a 2 foot plant, the chances are extremely high (100%?) that it has already reached maturity.

keep the questions comin' DJ


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## dirtyolsouth (Nov 16, 2009)

HI,

I think how you prefer to sex your plants also depends your available veg space, which in my case is quite limited in a 2 x 3 x 8 closet.  When my plants are big enuf to flower there's no more room in the veg inn...   I usually take a clone to keep the genetics going in my garden for future grows in veg to grow a new mother from and I put my seedlings plants or clones into 12/12 when they are at the desired flowering size.   Really small clones IME are sometimes much harder to see emerging flowers on and it can take closer to more than 2+ weeks to be sure with males. imho it's much harder on a tiny clone to check for sex than it is to see pistils on a large plant where there are many nodes to examine...

Peace!


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## SkunkPatronus (Nov 17, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> I apologize. I found the original post "NODES AND SEXING" in General Indoor Growing page 9 last post 10-30-09, where there was a picture of 2 plants, on with alternating nodes labeled Female and another one with "PARALLEL/OPPOSING NODES" labeled Male. However, later posts said that this only indicated sexual maturity and not which sex they actually were.
> 
> Hey, I'm just trying to find the earliest way I can to sex so I can cull them out and plant more because we are under a strict plant limit for medical growers.
> 
> ...


 

Oh i don't think you make more mistake that most of us, i for one have wounded, mained, hermied, of outright killed off more plants than a lot of people have ever planted.  There didn't used to be great places to find info on like here, and i never did actually buy a book (duh), so it was word of mouth and lots of trial and error(emphasis on error), finding my cousins high times and trips to the library...long ago i would have added bleach if someone told me it would help my plants.  So i'm betting anybody here that posts a lot has done some really funny things to their plants too... Join the club!


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## LEFTHAND (Nov 17, 2009)

*IMHO sexing by alternating nodes is not "a safe" way...a for sure way to tell maturity.. but to sex i would have to say nahh..  LF there needs to be no root to tell sex either.. after 10 days or so of 12/12 the cutting you took will show sex... then you know which are males at a smaller size then at a 2ft plant..... get the males out 1ft or so.. 

CMD420 is the 2ft rule safe????
i would say no.. my papaya matured arounf 1ft.. under 1 month.. cant say impossible.. very un heard of... and weird.... 
take care everyone...
LH*


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## Growdude (Nov 17, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> growdude, you don't have to wait for the roots to develope first?...just put it in 12/12 from cut and it will sex?  I've never heard of this, I thought they needed to at least root first with 24 hrs of light?



No roots, just cut and sex. can take 2-3 weeks usually right about the time its rooting its sexed.


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## nvthis (Nov 28, 2009)

If I remember correctly... It was originally posted by either TBG or TCVG that sex could be determined by alternating node _spacing_. The idea was that female alternating node spacing was evenly spaced, where as male node spacing was short-long, short-long (there were pics in the original thread). This has come up a few times before, and it has always left most folk flat determined that it was false, or just very confused. Wether or not it is based in science, I personally think most folk (including myself) would do well to stick with more traditional means to determine sex. This is basically fool proof.


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## BBFan (Nov 29, 2009)

2Dog said:
			
		

> I determine when to flower by size...I flower at 18/24 inches...sometimes bigger never smaller. everone has different desires on when to flower, some people go by age...


 
Several people seem to agree with you on this 2dog- saying that they determine when to flower based on size, not sexual maturity.

But those same people also say that a plant will not show sex until sexually mature :confused2: - isn't that contradictory?

So I guess my question is this:

By putting it into 12/12 to "induce" flowering before it is sexually mature- are you just slowing down growth by limiting photosynthesis until the plant reaches the age where it is mature? The result being limiting growth, not inducing flowering?

I've been contradicted in other threads by posters saying that different strains flower at different times when put into 12/12. Personally, I have not experienced this, but I always wait until my plants are loaded with pre-flowers before making the switch to 12/12.

So I guess the question is- which is right- 

you can force a plant to flower regardless of it's age by controlling the lighting schedule

-------OR-------

a plant will not flower until it is sexually mature


Thanks!

-BBFan


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## Hick (Nov 29, 2009)

nvthis said:
			
		

> If I remember correctly... It was originally posted by either TBG or TCVG that sex could be determined by alternating node _spacing_. The idea was that female alternating node spacing was evenly spaced, where as male node spacing was short-long, short-long (there were pics in the original thread). This has come up a few times before, and it has always left most folk flat determined that it was false, or just very confused. Wether or not it is based in science, I personally think most folk (including myself) would do well to stick with more traditional means to determine sex. This is basically fool proof.



I think you're right!.. one of those "I've made a fantastic discovery.. an epiphany for the future of all mj growers"... posts that fell bust, was NOT proven. In fact I think it was proven incorrect when the dust all settled.
There is one and only one way to determine sexual preferance. By waiting untill flowers can be seen. Whether clones put on 12/12, or if you wait untill they express by maturity alone. "Pistills and stamine".. 
no amount of node counting, hypothesises, guesses will determine it any sooner.


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