# Supreme Court eviscerates 4th Amendment over marijuana smell



## Erbal (May 18, 2011)

In a case decided yesterday, _[URLKentucky v. King[/URL]_,  the US Supreme Court has ruled that cops who smell marijuana coming  from your home can break down your door and arrest you, just as long as  they knock first and claim to have heard you destroying evidence.
 They don&#8217;t need a warrant or probable cause, either.  Today in  America, police can now randomly patrol neighborhoods and apartment  complexes sniffing around for pot.  When they smell it, they can knock  on your door and then break it down, claiming they heard noises from  within.
 The Frederick v. Morse[/I]);
[*]that religions using Schedule I ayahuasca or Schedule I peyote as a  holy sacrament should have a First Amendment exception to drug law  prosecution (_[]Gonzales v. O Centro Espirita Beneficiente Uniao Do Vegetal[/URL]_), but religions that use Schedule I cannabis made the mistake of choosing too popular an illegal holy sacrament (_[]USA v. Quaintence[/URL]_);
[*]and that police who&#8217;ve stopped your vehicle may run a drug-sniffing  dog around your car even without any probable cause to believe the  driver is involved with drugs in any way (_["]Illinois v. Caballes[/URL]_).[/LIST] So long as the law says marijuana is contraband and its possession  and cultivation a crime, the federal courts will always find a way to  rule to maintain marijuana prohibition.  The solution lies in Congress  (depressing as that may be) and changing the law.


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This is a sad day indeed. I wonder how this is going to affect the police force on more local scale, especially with 16 US States supporting medicinal.


Sir, you were legally growing your medication so we had to bust down your door. /facepalm


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## jc2010 (May 18, 2011)

so what if you are home u hear the door knock and they do not announce they are an officer of the law and they kick in your door. as a homeowner i have a rite to defend my property. the man has a gun does that give me rite to shoot the intruder???? they dont have a warrant to be there so they are tresspassing.


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## OGKushman (May 18, 2011)

This sounds **. What if someone was smoking and the cop smelled it? What if i just picked up a months worth of meds and left it on my living room table and my living room windows open?....

survellience cameras would get you outta trouble here...


i have a negative pressure around my entire house. i ask every person when they arrive if they smell anything. nope...vortex on a filter blowing into attic.


Plus in cali its legal for medicinal use as long as you have your paperwork in order...dont know about Kentucky...? but stuff like this still scares me


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## Kupunakane (May 19, 2011)

_*
    I guess this will stir up some kinda mess,

 Reason it through, middle of the night someone kicks in your door, suddenly a shot rings out, and then the real crapola hits the fan.

 You got a dead cop in your house all because he thought that it was his right to kick in your door without a warrant, and in the dark I would be thinking an intruder is here to possibly hurt a family member. Bad enough that these jerks will shoot your dog even if it's in a cage, but we are talking about people that are really gun happy, and they themselves are all pumped to shoot someone in your own home ? That is what we see when you get an idiot judge that forgets the basic rights of the individuals.

 The answer really isn't all that far away though, we just vote the fool out of office.

 REMEMBER, that the law is supposed to be protecting us, not threatening us, THEY work for us, and They are hired by us. We call the Laws, and the shots, not some incompetent judge that obviously has his head in his butt.

 Learn to stand up to this kind of stuff, and use your voice. V O T E  ! ! ! ! ! ! 

smoke in peace
KK:cool2:
*_


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## StoneyBud (May 19, 2011)

Federal law trumps any and all lower laws when it gets to the Supreme Court.

That is what they will use to justify busting anyone in any of the MMJ states in the USA.

MMJ doesn't exist in Federal law. 

I'm convinced that the USA is going to hell in a hand-basket.

I'll hide on my property and stay as far off the grid as I can. Maybe they won't see me.

As a person who uses MJ and feels that it should be legal under the same rules as alcohol, it cracks me up when I hear some of the lame "I gotta smoke my meds" B*S that is being used as an excuse to get high. 

If I can see it as B*S, does anyone really think the people who make the laws can't see it?

If every single person who wants to smoke MJ gets some Doctor to give them a note for it, then it loses it's believability. ALL will be seen as B*S artists and it harms the cause, not helps it.

I'm getting where every time I hear someone talk about thier MJ Meds, it makes ME cringe. It's become one of the most common lies ever told.

Here's MY statement:

I smoke MJ because I like to get high from it! It helps my old age pains, but meds would also do that just as well. I use MJ because it makes me feel good in my head AND my body. I'll smoke it if it's legal or not. I'll grow it if it's legal or not and the law can bite me about it.

It's that simple and honest. I'm not playing any games or jumping through any hoops to smoke my weed.

I'll smoke it and grow it DESPITE what the law says and I don't give a rats azz if they like it or not.

Put THAT in your pipe, you stinking Politicians and smoke it!


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## OGKushman (May 20, 2011)

If i didnt smoke marijuana i would probably still take paxil, xanax, and zoloft...

its not an excuse, its medication stoney. maybe some use it to get high, but i believe they are using it for some physical or mental reason weather they know it or not.


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## StoneyBud (May 20, 2011)

I understand that you use it for meds OGK, but of the 100 or so stoners I know here in my town, none of them use it for anything but partying. They simply like to be high. 

I'm not trying to say there isn't a lot of people with real medical problems they use MJ for, but I am trying to say that of the millions who use MJ, I believe that most do so just to have a good time.

Just like booze.

Everyone knows that you can pay some Doctor to say you need it for medical reasons. I'm trying to separate the B*S from the real here.

You said "maybe some use it to get high". I think it's the other way around. I think some actually use it as a med. Most just like being high, like me.

Of the 100 or so in my town who I know and have gotten high with, maybe 5 of them actually think of it as a medication. The rest just like to get stoned. I know all these people. Some of them for 20+ years.

What's wrong with using it for just getting high? Just like booze. Only some people drink booze for it's pain killing effect. Most just drink it to party and feel good. It's legal. That means it's ok to want to just party and feel good as long as you use booze, right?

I'm saying that MJ should also be legal to use for the same exact reason.

I'm not going to some Doctor and doing a big act to get him to write me a note for some MJ so I can get high. I've been getting high from MJ for more than 50 years. I don't need anyone's permission to grow it or smoke it. I'm sure not going to B*S anyone into writing me a note so I'm on 200 Govt lists of pot users.

I'll continue to do what I have for most of my life; I'll grow it and smoke it. 

I think if there were a "truth serum" and people who got MMJ notes were tested, 90+% of them would admit they just want to get high without fear of being busted, so they jumped through the MMJ hoops to get a note and now they get high on their "Meds".

The other 10 or so percent have actual medical reasons for smoking it.

I really do believe that man. That's 50 years of partying with stoners, speaking OGK. I'm not a newbie at this.

No offence meant man. I sure hope you haven't taken any.

What I'm saying to the establishment is you might as well legalize it. Me, and millions of others just like me will continue smoking it and more and more will grow it. The growing side is escalating tremendously. People are sick of hiding the fact that they LIKE to smoke MJ and are doing so despite the freakin laws, just as they have been since some fool made it illegal.

Now the establishment is making ANOTHER freakin game out of it by making everyone jump through all these MMJ hoops for no other reason than they have to justify smoking MJ because it simply makes them feel good, just like the freakin alcohol does for the judges and politicians.

Oh hey, yer honor, yer havin that drink there because it helps your chronic back condition, right? Sign here and get your Doctor to say you need alcohol and we'll let you drink it.

Yeah, right. We'll never see those freakin days.

It's ok for them to drink their booze and make BILLIONS of bucks from it's sale and manufacturing, but we can't smoke our weed for the same exact reasons? What a crock of crap.

People have to resort to B*Sing and playing the system with the MMJ so that they can FORCE the establishment to let them smoke their weed.

I hate that man. I hate it a lot. So do all of the people I know who get  high. It's like we're all a bunch of cows being herded by the government. Move along little doggy, go tell your Doc about some pain you're having and get that piece of paper for only $99.99 this week only!

Sorry man. I have to give it up right now. It pisses me off so much I can hardly type.

Like I said, no offence meant to you or any other MJ user. I don't care why you use it. You should be able to without all the games if you're 18 or older. Exactly the same as with booze.

It's an insult to every citizens intelligence to make these games necessary.


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## Erbal (May 20, 2011)

KingKahuuna said:
			
		

> _*
> That is what we see when you get an idiot judge that forgets the basic rights of the individuals.
> 
> The answer really isn't all that far away though, we just vote the fool out of office.
> *_



I agree that voting people in and out of office is important, although the idiot judges in this case were 8 out of the 9 US Supreme Court Justices. Sadly, we don't get to vote for them. We "vote" for the guy who picks them. The president. And that is only if one of them croaks and needs to be replaced.

As a US citizen, the US Supreme Court has always disappointed me in terms of how it voted when it comes to marijuana. I have seen them take the constitution and give it the finger before. (Anyone remember the kid from Alaska who was expelled from school for holding up a sign that said "Bong hits for Jesus" off of school property?)

@OGK & Stoney

I would still smoke both for recreational and medicinal purposes whether or not I got my medicinal card. I got the card for insurances reasons to be honest. If I am visiting Vegas, traveling through another state that does not support medicinal, or even get pulled over on my own freeways, cops have a greater probability of looking the other way. You are not worth the time or money a medicinal patient could spend fighting a minor offense in court over some personal. If you ask me, the $50 I spent on a medi card is well worth the peace of mind.

I also believe that it should be decriminalized, like alcohol. In fact, I believe that MJ is less harmful. When was the last time you heard of someone who blacked out after smoking one to many joints then proceeded to beat his wife? If I had to pick between the two, MJ would win.

I have been a smoking for many years, both before and after I went to Iraq. I have fought for my right to do what I want in pursuit of happiness. This sometimes include the recreational use of MJ. There are other times where my insomnia/anxiety/PTSD gets to me and I want to medicate more than I want to get stoned.  I don't want / refuse to take 3 different drugs when I can smoke 1.

As an ex-combat medic, I reserve the right to self medicate. Have you ever looked into the long term effects of pharmaceutical head meds? They all pretty much consist of the chance of permanent neurological damage, losing some or all of the control of one or more of your limbs, and erectile dysfunction (thats ok right? I mean, they got ANOTHER med you can take for that...), and even death may occur as a result of taking some head meds long term. If you doubt me, just do a google on some of your more favorite or common drugs.

That does not mean that MJ is 100% safe either. Cambridge research studies have shown that if you smoke MJ everyday for 10 years, you have a 90% chance of developing schizophrenia. Also, since the England decriminalized MJ, they have seen a rise in the amount of people checking them selves into an asylum for self-diagnosed psychosis. The research however, is still unclear on whether these people smoked because they had the trouble and are now seeking help or if they use to be 100% normal and are now screwy for smoking MJ.

IMO MJ>Pharmaceuticals any day of the week.

EDIT: Fixed the quote scripting.


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## Roddy (May 20, 2011)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> Here's MY statement:
> 
> I smoke MJ because I like to get high from it! It helps my old age pains, but meds would also do that just as well.



The drugs they gave me were not only addicting, but ate the liner of my stomach and caused other serious issues which were as bad as the pain I was taking them for, so no, I'll not be taking the meds that man makes to replace the natural meds our ancestors had used all through history! So, maybe some do make up excuses, please don't lump us all together though.  I'm capable of producing all the documentation anyone will ever wish to need...dating back to the early 90's!

ooops, I see you gave us a 10% bracket...my bad!


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## dman1234 (May 20, 2011)

I use it just to get high, and thats cool with me.

Considering the penalties in some places if anyone is making stuff up to get legal then i say more power to them.


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## Roddy (May 20, 2011)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> I understand that you use it for meds OGK, but of the 100 or so stoners I know here in my town, none of them use it for anything but partying. They simply like to be high.
> 
> I'm not trying to say there isn't a lot of people with real medical problems they use MJ for, but I am trying to say that of the millions who use MJ, I believe that most do so just to have a good time.
> 
> ...




First, you know it's an easy thing, so the statement of a big act isn't really true, just tell him where it really truly does hurt and you're golden!

That last statement...if you look at it as I do, you'd likely think some of these gubnets were actually trying to LEGALIZE mj instead of prosecute....just trying to figure out how while also staying in good grace with that pesky fed brother. I see it as many states trying to relieve the stress of mj on their legal systems. I see it as some being tired of the two-faced attitude of enforcing the law while breaking it themselves....many officials knowing they aren't hiding anything from most of us, some tired of having to...just like us!

Truly, my friend, ask yourself how sick you'll be if you end up being busted for a simple possession or grow when you could have easily gone legal?

Oh, btw...when you look up mmj for MI, check out the website that pops up, then check out who owns and operates that site!!


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## StoneyBud (May 20, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> The drugs they gave me were not only addicting, but ate the liner of my stomach and caused other serious issues which were as bad as the pain I was taking them for, so no, I'll not be taking the meds that man makes to replace the natural meds our ancestors had used all through history! So, maybe some do make up excuses, please don't lump us all together though.  I'm capable of producing all the documentation anyone will ever wish to need...dating back to the early 90's!
> 
> ooops, I see you gave us a 10% bracket...my bad!


 
I very carefully avoided "lumping everyone together" in how I phrased my comments.

I also included that I meant no disrespect or bad feelings to anyone.

I understand that some people have less tolerance to pharmaceuticals than others, but that's not to say that all pharmaceuticals are bad for you, like it seems most MMJ people are trying to say.

Have people forgotten how to just cope with stress and common aches and pains? Does everyone have to "medicate" every time they get a twitch in a muscle? It's starting to seem that way to me. 

There is a far distance between mentioning a recurring, problematic and chronic pain and *whining* because someone has a stiff neck from surfing too much that day. 

OMG, I just felt a hundred MMJ users jump to their feet and get ready to defend thier *illness*. Common guys and girls, I've been smoking weed too long and with too many stoners to fall for every *I have to have something so I can cope with life* B*S. 

What exactly is wrong with admitting that you just LIKE to smoke MJ? Everyone seems to be having to make some sort of excuse to smoke it.

Just like Erbal said, he got a MMJ card so he could stop stressing over getting busted. It's that simple. The powers that be know that most of the MMJ people are doing just that. It's a huge game that we are being forced to play if we like it or not.

I'm trying to put some reality back into it.

If weed makes you feel good and relaxes you, that's great! It's been used for a couple thousand years for that very reason. It's what it does best.

It relaxes you, makes problems seem to fade a bit, and puts you into a good frame of mind. That's wonderful as it can be. It can dull minor aches and pains, (something I know about), and over-all, reduce the amount of pharmaceuticals that would be used to accomplish the same goal. That too is wonderful.

Please don't *lump everyone together* and try to tell me that every, or even the majority of MMJ users are using it because they can't live without it OR pharmaceuticals. It doesn't have to be one or the other. The third choice is to stand on your own two feet and DEAL with the ups and downs of life as people have for centuries. You don't HAVE to use SOMETHING to drug yourself. You CAN just not do anything but COPE with it.

Let's not make a world society that has to medicate itself every time we have a bad day. That's switching one dependence for another.

I smoke weed for pain or to get my head screwed back on right, about once for every 50 times I smoke it. The other 49 times, hell man, I'm trying to get high and have some freakin fun in life! And it IS fun to get high. Let's not let that escape us.

I resent the powers that be FORCING me to play some "Put your left foot out, put your left foot in* freakin MMJ game to eliminate the stress and fear of being busted for something that took B*S TRICKS OF LAW to even make illegal.

I resent being forced to hide in my house or behind some dark corner to smoke a toke when I only want to relax and have some fun.

I really resent some MMJ person getting in my face and trying to snow me into believing that ALL MMJ people are on the up and up. I'm too old for freakin fairy tales. I firmly believe that mostly, it's a scam that exists only because our society has FORCED us to act in a manner that allows us to use a mild drug like MJ for just having fun and relaxing. We gotta play the game or stress our collective azzes off about some Barney busting us for doing nothing but having a little freakin fun.

I'm very sorry if anyone gets uptight about what I've said. I really mean that. I mean no disrespect to anyone. I understand that lying about why you smoke weed is becoming the only way to avoid some prick from locking you up and making you part of ANOTHER type of game.

I'm sorry if I've hurt anyone's feelings. That isn't my intention in saying what I have.

We're all anonymous here. None of can or will be *traced* to our real identities. We can tell the truth here about why we smoke weed. If we lie to each other about it, here, then the A/Holes of the world have won. They've forced us to be fake people even when we don't have to.

Hi, my name is Stoney and I use MMJ once in awhile for pain and stress.

The OTHER 99% of the time, I use MJ to have fun, relax after a hard day and get the giggles with my friends. 

Now what in Sam Hill is really wrong with saying that in truth?

I do understand that there are many people who use MMJ for constant pain and need it as a medication more than fun. I also understand that they are not the majority of MMJ users. Let's be real here.

Thanks guys and gals. Just being real.


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## Hick (May 21, 2011)

Just because I don't have cancer or aids, *DOES NOT* mean I am not or should not, be allowed to _"self medicate"_.    Forum doctors are sorta' like 'jailhouse' lawyers. Untill you have that diploma hanging on the wall, and the robe on your back(or in this case, scrubs ) you're no authority to be judging me...


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## Mutt (May 21, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> you're no authority to be judging me...


Spot on Hick

Last I understood the bill of rights and constitution of the United States is that States are supposed to govern themselves as long as they adhere to the bill of rights and constitution. At no point beyond that does it allow Federal Law to political name State. The only reason they do is because WE LET THEM!!! A state has EVERY right to say NO and take it to supreme court. The leverage that the feds have is what the states give them. Mainly being funding and social services. Our country is being run by a corporate machine called the "federal" govt. Our founding fathers warned of letting the feds have too much power.



> When the people fear their government, there is tyranny; when the government fears the people, there is liberty-Thomas Jefferson





> What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned  from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance? Thomas Jefferson



I would rather risk jail then conform to their immorality and hypocrisy. I will grow till the day I die. I am Civilly disobedient...but doesn't mean I'm gonna walk on up and turn myself in


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## Rosebud (May 21, 2011)

SB, you have your opinion and a lot of anger behind it. What are you so ticked off about? 

Have you ever been to a MMJ clinic? Have you met any of the doctors at these clinics?  Have you wondered why an 80 year old retired cardiac surgeon would come out of retirement to travel to small towns and set up clinics? It isn't the money honey. 
Please don't compare cannabis to alcohol. That is ridiculous on so many levels that I will say no more on that.

My hope is that the marijuana medical issue is just a part of the beginning of a lengthy legal battle that will ultimately legalize pot. It is a first step I hope.


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## StoneyBud (May 21, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> Just because I don't have cancer or aids, *DOES NOT* mean I am not or should not, be allowed to _"self medicate"_. Forum doctors are sorta' like 'jailhouse' lawyers. Until you have that diploma hanging on the wall, and the robe on your back(or in this case, scrubs ) you're no authority to be judging me...


The problem is that the judges who *are* judging you and I *are* entitled to do so. I agree that they aren't suitable to be the ones who decide who has real medical problems that can be helped by MMJ. Courts shouldn't be making medical decisions.





			
				Rosebud said:
			
		

> SB, you have your opinion and a lot of anger behind it. What are you so ticked off about?
> 
> Have you ever been to a MMJ clinic? Have you met any of the doctors at these clinics? Have you wondered why an 80 year old retired cardiac surgeon would come out of retirement to travel to small towns and set up clinics? It isn't the money honey.
> Please don't compare cannabis to alcohol. That is ridiculous on so many levels that I will say no more on that.
> ...


 
Q:SB, you have your opinion and a lot of anger behind it. What are you so ticked off about? 

A: I thought that was obvious by what I've said. I've been angry a long time over exactly what Hick has just reinforced; the legal system has no right to let alcohol be legal, (given certain restrictions), and not MJ. That's the basis of my beef. It forces people to use other methods to do what they should be able to do without the games.

Q: Have you ever been to a MMJ clinic?

A: No. Why? What does that have to do with anything I've said?

Q: Have you met any of the doctors at these clinics?

A: No. Again, what does that have to do with anything I've said?

Q: Have you wondered why an 80 year old retired cardiac surgeon would come out of retirement to travel to small towns and set up clinics? It isn't the money honey.

A: No, I really haven't wondered at all about it. I thought it was obvious, but I guess not since you just said one of the most naive things I've heard about it. Yes, they are there for the money. You think they're there because they give a rats butt about you and MJ? Please, don't make me laugh. That's the only reason the Doctors are there. Money, money and more money. They love it. They want it. They see an EASY way to get it and they're sucking it up like manna from heaven.

Q: (Not really a question, but I'll put it like that so I can answer it easily)

Please don't compare cannabis to alcohol. That is ridiculous on so many levels that I will say no more on that.

A: Then you aren't very well educated on the subject. It's not ridiculous and has it's comparisons. Alcohol has been used by millions of people throughout the ages for ailments and pain. Historical proof of that is in about a billion places. That comparison is so obvious that I wonder why you would even try to deny it.

Rosebud, please don't take what I've said personally. It wasn't directed at you or anyone in a personal manner. I'm stating my opinion on a forum that is literally designed for doing that. Contrary opinions can and will be posted in the same manner. Hopefully without personal attack.


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## Mutt (May 21, 2011)

I still say that the govt. has no business making laws that inhibit personal freedom. The point of laws is to ensure that what I do does not infringe upon someone elses right. This country was not designed or intended to be my nanny. As LONG as my growing herb and toking it does not infringe upon anyone else, then no law should have the power to say I can or cannot.
MedMJ or the fact I want to make $$$. Last I READ (and our leaders so blatently ignore) I have the RIGHT to a free market, and the RIGHT to Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. These laws and many others INFRINGE upon my rights. Our Federal govt. is in DIRECT violation of our Constitution and has been for a long time. Not just regarding Weed. Regarding a ton of policies. 

We can argue and bicker and that is what they want....the people infatuated with rhetoric. Always keeping our eye off the big picture.

Big Govt. = Less Liberty.
and right now we have a govt. so large "the people" can't control it anymore. A "War on Drugs" is a country at war with itself. The "patriot Act" is an act of tyranny upon ourselves. DEA is an Army directed at it's people. This is tyranny. 


> I think that we should be men first, and subjects afterward. It is not  so desirable to cultivate a respect for the law, so much as for the  right. -Thoreau


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## StoneyBud (May 21, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I still say that the govt. has no business making laws that inhibit personal freedom. The point of laws is to ensure that what I do does not infringe upon someone else's right. This country was not designed or intended to be my nanny. As LONG as my growing herb and toking it does not infringe upon anyone else, then no law should have the power to say I can or cannot.
> MedMJ or the fact I want to make $$$. Last I READ (and our leaders so blatantly ignore) I have the RIGHT to a free market, and the RIGHT to Life Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. These laws and many others INFRINGE upon my rights. Our Federal govt. is in DIRECT violation of our Constitution and has been for a long time. Not just regarding Weed. Regarding a ton of policies.
> 
> We can argue and bicker and that is what they want....the people infatuated with rhetoric. Always keeping our eye off the big picture.
> ...


 
You've said exactly how I feel also Mutt. Thanks!

The Government in the USA and many other countries is now a case of the "Tail wagging the dog".

If you ever want to really get yourself spooked out, read "The Rise And Fall Of The Roman Empire", and in every instance where Rome is mentioned, in whatever context, substitute "USA" for it in the same context. 

It fits so well it's scary. Especially the "Fall" part.

Are the powers that be so arrogant or blind that they cannot also see it?


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## Erbal (May 22, 2011)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> Just like Erbal said, he got a MMJ card so he could stop stressing over getting busted. It's that simple. The powers that be know that most of the MMJ people are doing just that. It's a huge game that we are being forced to play if we like it or not.



I want to first say that I know this is a few days old, but I have been trying to think of the right way to respond to this.

Did I get the medi card to stop worrying about the law? Yes, however that is not the only reason. Also having a card or not would not make a difference in what I would do for medical use or for recreational use.

In a bigger picture, the medical card is a very important step in legalizing MJ. Is the system flawed and need work? Yes, we are talking MMJ, something not 100% perfectly legal. (Look at the hard on the DEA has had.) MMJ has allowed hundreds of people across the country to access MJ while easing our criminal systems. The way I look at it, the more people that hop on the MMJ, the sooner the legalization of MJ will be.

I mean, if you put in a bus route and only one person uses it, your not going to start running more buses, you would probably shut it down since only one person is using it. But if that bus suddenly gets overcrowded, you might have to look into getting a subway system built.

The way I see it, supporting MMJ is one of the easiest ways to support legalizing MJ. Not does it keep me from having to worry about the cops, but it helps keep me a law abiding citizen, something that I actually enjoy being, while allowing me to show my support for this meme.

SB; If you prefer hiding out in the middle of no where, off the grid, that is your choice, a decision I respect. What makes no sense to me though, is your opposition to the MMJ. MMJ came about because of the bigger laws outlawing MJ. If you feel that MMJ is ridiculous and that we don't need it, then fight the bigger laws, don't knock MMJ because you feel it is being taking advantage of. The MMJ law is there so the gov. *can't* take advantage of me.


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## StoneyBud (May 22, 2011)

You've misunderstood what my stance is, Erbal. I'm not *against* MMJ. 

I'll repeat that so there is no misunderstanding:

I'm not against MMJ.

What I'm against is the government making it necessary to call MJ "Medical Marijuana". We, the people, should not have to force the government to let us use MJ by using this means of eventually legalizing it.

I understand that every single person in the entire world could claim a need for "Medical Marijuana". Sure they can. I don't think there is a person on the planet who doesn't periodically get recurring medical problems of some sort; back ache, neck ache, head aches, nausea,....the list is endless and being used by the vast majority of people who acquire a permit to use MMJ.

I see this as a "game" between the citizens of the USA and their government that shouldn't be necessary. MJ hasn't been illegal very long in the USA. It was made illegal by the government using a "catch 22" to make it impossible to possess it legally. The old "Tax Stamp" bull-crap. "Oh", they say, "You can bring us your MJ and we will give you a tax stamp to allow you to have it. However, if you have it in your possession BEFORE you have a tax stamp, you've broken the law and you are no longer possessing it legally, so you're a criminal at that point and cannot apply for a tax stamp".

The government had to resort to TRICKERY and DECEIT to even make MJ illegal eventually. A government "shell game" that had no winner, ever.

Since then, our government has used MJ to create a huge, leaching group of laws and logistical support for those laws that eats BILLIONS of OUR tax dollars each year to ENFORCE a law that shouldn't be a law in the first place.

THAT is what I'm against. I don't think that MMJ is a stepping stone to legalization any more than prohibition of alcohol was a stepping stone to legalization of that substance. Sure, one followed the other, but the first is not the reason the second took place.

With alcohol, the government was FORCED to legalize it or fall into bankruptcy trying to enforce it. The people wanted alcohol and use of it didn't decline one iota during it's prohibition. According to some historians, it's use actually INCREASED as a result of prohibition.

People then used the "This alcohol is for medical purposes" to both acquire it and use it, just as people now are doing with "MMJ". It just pisses me off that we, the people are FORCED to play this game of words with the very government that is supposed to be OUR backup and support, not our nemesis and jailer.

In my town, if you were to show up at any of the large companies to work and told them you used MMJ, they wouldn't hire you. They would make some sort of excuse OTHER THAN the truth to refuse you employment, but the end result is that you would NOT be hired. If you already worked for them and a situation arose that made them discover you used MMJ, they again would find an EXCUSE to fire you. They would simply include you on the next layoff and say it had nothing to do with MMJ. ANOTHER GAME!

These GAMES that OUR government is playing with us are costing US, the taxpayer, BILLIONS of dollars of OUR OWN money! It's like some giant scam being perpetuated against us by those who are supposed to be representing us for our well being. Instead, they set up a catch 22 that makes us jump through hoops like little trained animals, to acquire what we should be able to have without any games.

I hate the games man. It's a type of game that is actually a lie. A blatant lie that is created by and continued by the people who are supposed to prevent that type of action to it's citizens.

It's the type of behavior that would be EXPECTED by some 3rd world country with a Dictator, NOT by a country that has 300 million citizens that fork over their hard earned cash by the truck load to PAY FOR their own abuse.

I've never said I am against MMJ. Not once. Not ever.

Let me make that clear:

*I've never said I am against MMJ. Not once. Not ever.*

You say that "MMJ is so that the government can't take advantage of you". I'm sorry man, but that is exactly what they are doing by making it necessary for you or anyone else to use MJ. They are making you lie and cheat and play games to acquire and use MJ. Without "playing the game", you are a law breaker. Here's a news flash for all MMJ users; you're still breaking the law. MMJ is a state level law that is NOT RECOGNIZED by the federal government. If they decide that they want you in jail, they can use marijuana to put you there and they'll put your MMJ card in your personal belongings while you're in their FEDERAL jail for illegal marijuana cultivation and use.

THAT'S what pisses me off! 

I'm against the necessity for a stupid game like MMJ to be played by our government and it's citizens. *I* will not play it. I'll continue to stay off their grid and do what I have for 50 years; defy them by doing what they say I cannot. I'll do exactly what those during prohibition did; I'll use it and make it anyway.

I'm here on a group of people who are all here as a result of using MJ. Each of us have broken the stupid, unjust and unfair laws that our government created to force us to do something we would not do if given a choice; we play thier games. Games of law. Games of Medicine. Games of the mind.

Angry? You're damn right it makes me angry. I'm a man of principle. My principles will not allow me to partake of a government led set of games that do nothing but trade blatant lack of fairness for a game of words.

Every time I finish a crop, I laugh again at the government. I've beaten them passively by NOT playing their games. Sure, it's a hell of a risk. IF they catch me, they'll try to make an example of me to the rest of the citizens of our country. More games.

I am absolutely in favor of legalization of marijuana. I've made that clear as can be on this site. *If* MMJ ends up forcing our elected government to allow it's use under fair laws, then I'm all in favor of it. I don't believe that the MMJ push will be that cause any more than massive use of "Medical Alcohol" was the deciding factor in legalizing it.

But, I am angry that our elected government has forced us to perpetrate this MMJ shell game to accomplish what should be allowed in the first place.

CRIME was what made the government come to it's senses on alcohol. Alcohol "Cartels". Gangsters like Al Capone and the like. Murder, and violence on a scale that is NOW HAPPENING with marijuana. THAT is what I believe will cause the eventual legalization of marijuana. For exactly the same reasons the it happened with alcohol.

I wish every person in the USA that smokes MJ would eventually get a MMJ card. I hate that it's necessary, and I hate my own government for bastardizing it's own set of standards to make MMJ necessary, but if it lessens their grip on us and lessens the stress and penalties, then I'm all in favor of it as a means to the end. The end being getting high when you want to and it's safe to do so.

Making me out to be "the bad guy" because I speak my mind about how MMJ came to be and exists is crazy. I'm not the bad guy. Our government leaders who support MJ being illegal are the bad guys.

I wish there was a way to have every single MJ user in the USA stand in protest all at once. I believe there are as many as 50 million of us in just the USA. If every single one of us stood in protest at once, as did the Anti-VN war people, then this joke of government games would end over night.

The government has created an environment for us that makes this impossible. Too many people would be hurt in the process of protest, so it'll probably not happen.

MMJ *may* be a stepping stone. We'll see. If and when the FEDERAL government accepts MMJ, then THAT would be a HUGE step.

I hope I've made my stance crystal clear. I am NOT against MMJ. I'm against the necessity of calling MJ "MMJ". It arrived at that point in an unfair and unjust manner that makes me ashamed of my own government.


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## Mutt (May 22, 2011)

MedMJ the downfall to that approach is that if it does become legal federally, then the FDA will gain control. Then what. 

Only "federally licensed" pharmaceutical companies will be able to manufacture it into a "exact measured" quantity pill or liquid. With other drugs mixed in to reduce the euphoric effect. 

Prime example being synthetic opiates. 

What mother nature provides in a seed pod that a couple of puffs will do ya is now a liver poisoning pill measured in exact doses with an astronomical amount of Acetaminophen included. 

I've always been leary of the outright "legalization and regulation" mentality. 

I've been more of the "decriminalized" and leave it what it is...a weed.



> The MMJ law is there so the gov. *can't* take advantage of me



and you have the right to view it that way. Me I'm more libertarian about it. 
Leave the feds out of the lives and rights of states. Do their job and regulate interstate commerce, foriegn affairs, and national defense. Leave the domestic stuff to the states to handle and abolish the DEA, FDA, and ATF. Reduce the FBI to on request from states Law Enforcement or internal affairs problems. and and for states to fight to adopt nationwide policy that addiction is a medical problem not a criminal problem.

It is the right of the people to oppose their govt. if there govt. is taking away liberty from its people. The people are now scared of our govt. as you have stated. This is when a govt. is tyrannical. We are supposed to respect our peers in society...not fear a govt.


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## Roddy (May 22, 2011)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> You've misunderstood what my stance is, Erbal. I'm not *against* MMJ.
> 
> I'll repeat that so there is no misunderstanding:
> 
> ...




Please, tell us how you really feel!


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## Erbal (May 22, 2011)

StoneyBudI hope I've made my stance crystal clear. I am NOT against MMJ. I'm against the necessity of calling MJ "MMJ". It arrived at that point in an unfair and unjust manner that makes me ashamed of my own government.[/quote

Although I did read the essay said:
			
		

> SB is not against MMJ.[/B]  SB (and I) are against the reasons it that originally forced MMJ into creation.
> 
> What really burns my buttons in the OP, is the blatant disregard for our basic rights. I don't care if the dude had an 1/8 or a 1lb. The cops had no right to enter his home and the judicial system protected law enforcement instead of our civil liberties.
> 
> Our government was created with a tri-check of powers, but what do we do as citizens when all three powers (Judicial, Legislative, Presidential) give the finger to our rights outlined by our forefathers? We resist and revolt, something that I don't wish to actually ever see happen. We have a good foundation for a great system. I don't want a new government, I just want to go back to square 1 and eliminate this clown show called the US Federal Government.


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## woodydude (May 23, 2011)

"Prohibition...goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a mans appetite by legislation and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes... A prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded"

I love this quote as it sums up my feelings on any prohibititive measure. WHo said it? Abraham Lincoln in Dec 1940, quoted in The Emperor Wears No Clothes, Jack Herer.

I live in the UK so there is no mmj law here, just a nanny state trying to control every aspect of our lives, totally corrupt and available to the highest bidder. Thats right, your country is too!!!!

The desire to become a politician should prohibit a person from ever becoming one.
Peace all W


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## StoneyBud (May 23, 2011)

woodydude said:
			
		

> The desire to become a politician should prohibit a person from ever becoming one.


 
I love that statement! Ain't it the friggin truth?

If we made politicians of only those who had to be dragged into it, I think our laws might be much different now!

But then, the ones who really want it would start pretending not to.

"NO, NO, Pleeeaasssse don't throw me in that brier patch!"


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## Erbal (May 23, 2011)

I did the student government thing went I went to college. One semester of being a school senator was enough to make want to shoot myself in the face. Spent hours every Friday in meetings (that were suppose to be 2 hours) listening to people bicker about how we need to stop carrying Red Bull so we can carry Monster in the Student Union building. Seriously? We couldn't carry both? /facepalm


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