# Questions about this sytem...



## NewbieG (Feb 3, 2008)

http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/p...c=34&jssCart=0e6f913b51c02e58ed010615ffcc5515

Ok so... this system looks really easy to make, and it honestly looks like it would work really well. I was hoping some of you more advanced guys could give me a little bit of help with what I should include in my set up. I plan on growing ALL autoflowering plants, so I would like to add maybe 8 slots instead of 6 since the plants will be much much smaller. Second of all, I'm thinking of adding a drainage hose so taking the water out will be easy. Now my questions are, how do you feed the nutrients to the plants? do you just mix it into the water and the system takes care of teh rest, what about tests and stuff? do you have to lift the top off every single time you need to add pH balancer or n e thing like that? I dont have any experience in this field so im hoping some of you guys could explain it to me. Thanks.​


----------



## octobong007 (Feb 3, 2008)

woops, sorry that was a drip system...


----------



## That crazy vancouver guy (Feb 3, 2008)

I suggest you PM POTUS and kindly ask him if he would have a look at it for you and for his opinion on it. He's a hydro guru, so you wanna listen to what he has to say....


----------



## kasgrow (Feb 4, 2008)

You should keep your first system simple, less to go wrong. You can make a dwc setup much easier. You don't need the feeder tubes. You mix the nutes with the water add a couple of airstones and keep the water at the bottom of the net cups until the roots hit the water. Then you can lower the water level some. The more stones and air pumps you add the more oxygen in the nutes. You can add another hole for checking levels, just keep it covered when you are not using it. You can add a drain hose or use a small pump and hose.


----------



## snuggles (Feb 4, 2008)

Nope, it's something you could make like Kasgrow says. Overpriced and their nutes are no good. Nothing wrong with the tote but you could make one for nothing, look at their directions, it's posted on the site. Look at the pictures of how to put it together...then tell me you would pay that much for it.


----------



## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 4, 2008)

NewbieG said:
			
		

> http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=16&xSec=34&jssCart=0e6f913b51c02e58ed010615ffcc5515​
> 
> Ok so... this system looks really easy to make, and it honestly looks like it would work really well. I was hoping some of you more advanced guys could give me a little bit of help with what I should include in my set up. I plan on growing ALL autoflowering plants, so I would like to add maybe 8 slots instead of 6 since the plants will be much much smaller. Second of all, I'm thinking of adding a drainage hose so taking the water out will be easy. Now my questions are, how do you feed the nutrients to the plants? do you just mix it into the water and the system takes care of teh rest, what about tests and stuff? do you have to lift the top off every single time you need to add pH balancer or n e thing like that? I dont have any experience in this field so im hoping some of you guys could explain it to me. Thanks.​


 
For my 2 cents worth IMHO it looks good for the money and it will work for you...always mix first in separate container, pH-TDS test and add, keep it on the low side (slowly raising as time goes by), it's easier to up nutes etc than to lower and risk burning your plants...A drainage outlet allows you to change nutrient reservoir easily (as you should every 7-10 days) and is a great option, and practical. Yes, lift and check, there are ways to make it easier, yet they are harder   a paradox of sorts but just lift the top and check, be part of the system and it will be good to you.


----------



## POTUS (Feb 4, 2008)

That crazy vancouver guy said:
			
		

> I suggest you PM POTUS and kindly ask him if he would have a look at it for you and for his opinion on it. He's a hydro guru, so you wanna listen to what he has to say....


 
Thanks man, but a simple DWC setup like this doesn't need me.

There are about a hundred of the DWC growers currently on the group.

It's a bucket full of water with an air pump.

A bucket, an air pump, net basket and some hydroton.

The growing part of it is the hard part.


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 5, 2008)

I actually priced the parts to see how much it would cost to make, and the difference between buying and building it myself is 30 bucks... It doesn't look complicated at all, but its 160 bucks... I think i might take your guys advice and go for some fox farms nutes or something like that since it would be the same price pretty much as going with the other nutes. It comes with an instructional video which I can watch to get the small details out of the way. I'm thinking of maybe 2 of these under a 400 watt MH/HPS I have will be good... I'm currently on my second soil grow with lowryder #2 and AK47 x blueberry, and they are just growing horribly slow, my first grow went much much better. I dont know if its the cheap soil i used this time vs the MG soil from last time, or that I started in 2 gallon containers to avoid having to transplant, but they are literally about 1/10th the size they should be... :/ Hopefully hydro can help me with these problems...


----------



## snuggles (Feb 5, 2008)

Redo your math, I can build one for 30.00 USD, first off the water pump and drip system aren't needed. Tote, air pump, airstone, netpots......

Which package are you looking at for sure, the nutes **** (granular nutes in a drip, pH up and down ****.....IMO it's a rip and I know cause i bought one way back. And no way you should ever put 6 seeds in a 10 gallon tote...wait till you flower and then you''l see.


----------



## akirahz (Feb 5, 2008)

i built mine for $16.80 

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=46753&d=1202192723


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 5, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> Redo your math, I can build one for 30.00 USD, first off the water pump and drip system aren't needed. Tote, air pump, airstone, netpots......
> 
> Which package are you looking at for sure, the nutes **** (granular nutes in a drip, pH up and down ****.....IMO it's a rip and I know cause i bought one way back. And no way you should ever put 6 seeds in a 10 gallon tote...wait till you flower and then you''l see.[/quote
> 
> I was just going to buy the parts from the site. I figured they gave me the idea so they should make some money. But one problem is how do you get the water pump to have 6 fittings. If you normally wouldn't suggest using 6 plants thats understandable, but I'm growing all autoflowering from now on and I think this system can handle 6 dwarfs... I have 40 seeds. 20 are in soil right now and I really do hope to get more seeds from this grow. So I should have 50+ autoflowering seeds in about 2 months. But If i can build this system for 30 bucks I might as well do it. I'll go to Home Depot today and pick up the pumps and see if I can find some of those net baskets. As for nutes, I want to use the best nutes for this system, which seem to be liquid nutes. I read that this system has trouble handling granulated or organic, but it doesn't really bother me n e. N e more advice is always appreciated!


----------



## That crazy vancouver guy (Feb 5, 2008)

you don't want to be using a granular fertilizer in your hydroponic system. go with hydroponics nutes... which are made for hydroponics. incidentally, I use hydroponics ferts in my soil grows.


----------



## akirahz (Feb 5, 2008)

you use feeder lines, it plugs directly into the pump, and spans out several feeder tubes which you can place directly into each plant http://www.cheaphydroponics.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=482

there are other ones out there i think though that arent battery operated


----------



## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 5, 2008)

akirahz said:
			
		

> you use feeder lines, it plugs directly into the pump, and spans out several feeder tubes which you can place directly into each plant http://www.cheaphydroponics.com/cart/index.php?act=viewProd&productId=482
> 
> there are other ones out there i think though that arent battery operated


Here's a nice alternative and only $13, an eight line manifold and you can shut lines off and on... 

http://www.hhydro.com/cgi-bin/hhydro/HH00861.html


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 5, 2008)

ok so I took the time to do the break down, and I really don't think I could make this system cheaper myself. The 130 i would spend for parts includes everything! the nutes, the rockwool, the pumps etc, etc. Check it out... I still think it seems like a pretty decent deal when you look at what you get.


Air Pump-  $16.00
Water Pump- $17.00
multihose system- $10.00
net cups- $4.00
drainage system- $10.00

Total cost of making bubblersystem: $57.00
They are selling it complete for $90!

I don't think I'll be able to find these quality parts for cheaper unless I source them online, which means ill end up paying the difference in shipping.

I do think that the water pump is needed, which if it wasn't would lower costs  by about 30 bucks. But the water pump seems to take care of the roots for the first while until it can reach water level. From my understanding this dual system is better then not dealing with the water pump because you can't over water the roots? As far as other costs which ended up adding up. I was going to buy the nutes ($30), the hydrometer/thermometer ($10), rockwool ($5), rocks ($8), pH test kit ($8), pH control kit ($15)... 

It seems decent to me?


----------



## snuggles (Feb 5, 2008)

Sure if you need all that stuff it's great. But from personal experience the drip is not needed even when they are young it's DWC. The nutes are worthless (they cause more problems than they fix) the pH up and Down is useless. That being said you need an airstone, airpump, netcups, medium, and some nutes not to mention the tote. That's not much, yes the drip is nice till the roots hit the water, this takes like a week once you seeds sprout, I'm honestly just trying to save you some money thats all.

I have the system, it was my first hydro grow, it was a nightmare from day 1 to say the least...good to see you are using an autoflower strain. Like A said he built one for under 20 easy....and I understand all the stuff that comes with it, nice if you need it, and some of it is pretty useless. And anyone who grows hydro will tell you a 10 gallon res in flower for even 4 plants is an everyday challenge to pH and top off correctly. 

http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/section.php?xSec=28&jssCart=83e522aa7e81a74904da2e48c33fbe5d

Here's the six outlet manifold which is cool except you spend at least twice a day fixing it...and it's not even needed. Get it if you want but I know you're going to cringe when you see it and say I could have done this for cheaper....also my friend works for them so you would think I would be biased the other way around but it's not a good deal IMO. And I know you feel obligated to buy from them because they gave you the idea...but where do you think they got it from? Simple water, container, air stone(s), and air pump.


----------



## godtea (Feb 5, 2008)

Do we have a few engineers in this crowd?


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 5, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> Sure if you need all that stuff it's great. But from personal experience the drip is not needed even when they are young it's DWC. The nutes are worthless (they cause more problems than they fix) the pH up and Down is useless. That being said you need an airstone, airpump, netcups, medium, and some nutes not to mention the tote. That's not much, yes the drip is nice till the roots hit the water, this takes like a week once you seeds sprout, I'm honestly just trying to save you some money thats all.
> 
> I have the system, it was my first hydro grow, it was a nightmare from day 1 to say the least...good to see you are using an autoflower strain. Like A said he built one for under 20 easy....and I understand all the stuff that comes with it, nice if you need it, and some of it is pretty useless. And anyone who grows hydro will tell you a 10 gallon res in flower for even 4 plants is an everyday challenge to pH and top off correctly.
> 
> ...



Well if you guys are saying I don't need the drip system i guess I'll let it go for now and try just using the other stuff. Now my question is... how the hell to I start this all off. Your saying don't use nutes, ok fine I'll let that go too. So basically from what I understand this is the process...

1. put seed in small rockwool and let sit till pops (now do I have to soak the rockwool, I'm assuming it has to be under light, do i put the rockwool in water or just soak and let grow?)

2. put rockwool into net cup and put the rocks in from here it will take about a week until the roots hit the water (how does the plant survive the week and how is it growing? its getting no water??)

3. once the roots hit the water just make sure the pH is in a good place and let grow. (So don't worry about nutes make sure water level stayes at right place and I'm good to go? This almost seems too easy?)

Is this right?? I'm going out to get the basic stuff I need right now, might have to order some parts from the sight, We'll see. Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 7, 2008)

no help???


----------



## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 7, 2008)

NewbieG said:
			
		

> Well if you guys are saying I don't need the drip system i guess I'll let it go for now and try just using the other stuff. Now my question is... how the hell to I start this all off. Your saying don't use nutes, ok fine I'll let that go too. So basically from what I understand this is the process...
> 
> 1. put seed in small rockwool and let sit till pops (now do I have to soak the rockwool, I'm assuming it has to be under light, do i put the rockwool in water or just soak and let grow?)
> 
> ...



Hi .
Basics - No you want to use the paper towel method to germinate, you should read up on it but basically, triple fold or so some paper towels, soak in distilled water. Place seeds on top and cover with a couple more soaked paper towels. Do this on a plate or container you can cover...put in a dark warm place and check every 12 hours to see when they sprout ...do not let them dry out...spray mist them... As they sprout place them in rockwool cubes (tap root down) that you already have presoaked and have a pH of 5.5-5.8 is good. Place in your system. Now under the lights they go,  24hr continuous is the best but no less than 18/6. Stay there for veg and read up...you've got to study and figure this out too. Read and examine this forum... there's a lot to learn but it's all here.

PS. For the money go with the system and you don't have to worry, it's not hundreds your saving by building it yourself...ya you can save some but hey, it's done...right? & Get a pH and TDS meter...


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 7, 2008)

Thanks for the tips joker, but I already new all that stuff lol. this hydro grow will be my third grow. I know how to germ, I know how to grow soil ok. But I want to switch to hydro. Can I use peat pellets instead of rockwool?  or is rockwool the best?. I'm also not really understanding how the roots are going to reach the reservoir if I dont get a water pump and pump water to the root area.


----------



## snuggles (Feb 7, 2008)

It's just like any DWC unit in the beginning high water level with the airstones splashes the young roots they will hit the water in no time after that then you lower the water level. The drip is a nice option but not really needed, also it clogs frequently if you use their nutrients (granular). I would get my own nutes...something liquid would be best. Also you are going to need some more airstones, it comes with one you need two if not three to really be efficient. The roots love the bubbles. And get meters like Toker says you need them. And get some pH up and down, I know it comes with some but IMO it's a PITA more than a help...remember I started hydro on this so I know from experience.

As for your questions stay away from the peat pellets in this kind of hydro IMO, rockwool, like Toker says soak in 5.5 -5.8 pH water. The airstones and the high water levels are what you are depending on to keep the young seed/plant/rockwool moist in the early stages. The bubles pop and splatter the netcup, after you get roots you lower the water level. Also I see what toke is saying but IMO it is a deal but since the nutes are junk and the pH...which is also granulated, is no good. 

I bought two units when I started hydro...the stealth and this http://www.4eversun.com/hydro_flora.htm

the linked one is the one I still use for clones, it's a little better but it does cost more...the mister costs 50.00 USD, I emailed them and asked if they sold it without the mister and they said yes so I payed a little less. That was a while ago so I'm not sure of the deal with the price...but these guys use them in all their products
http://www.hydroponics-hydroponic.com/hydroflora.htm

That being said neither unit can grow their full amount of plants, unless you do a really short veg SOG grow. Have you ever seen a ten gallon tote? Imagine more than 2 plants in it....these units are for the newer grower, and thats not bad persay but all they really are are an airstone and airpump (pet store), a tote (wal mart), and some vinyl 1/4" line (lowes, home depot) and a water pump (pet store)....the vinyl tubing and water pump are optional for the drip. Also IMO Lowe's is more hydro friendly than the depot, at Lowe's they have a whole section of these products http://www.misterlandscaper.com/
I use their misters in all my aero units and they work fine, cheap and safe to purchase with your CC if you are one of those worry warts.

Once again I agree with Toker if you just want to get on with it buy it,  it's not hundreds...but you could use that little money towards a nice 400 watt light, you never know.


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 8, 2008)

Thanks for the help snuggles I really appreciate the write up. I'm going to go for a DWC system. Buy the net cups, the rockwool, the stones and some hydro liquid nutes then just build everything myself. I'm thinking maybe a 6- 15 gallon container for  6- 12 autoflowering dwarf plants. I got a 30 to 60 gallon air pump and 2 air stones for it so I think I'll be good on that. As far as lights go, I'm not sure if I want to go with fluoro's or HID. I already have a 400 watt HID set up, but this is for a second grow room (helping out some friends) so I'm weighing the pros and cons once again on the lights lol. I wish they would just hurry up and legalize growing already, I want to be able to do it with no fear or prejudice against me. I've already lost one friend because he thinks its such a terrible thing... I think thats just stupid...


----------



## snuggles (Feb 9, 2008)

If you have any technical questions let us know. Sorry to hear about your friend, some people believe the hype they are taught....things always work themselves out. Good luck and make sure you show us what you do, we're always curious.


----------



## Voltron (Feb 9, 2008)

NewbieG said:
			
		

> http://www.stealthhydroponics.com/product.php?xProd=16&xSec=34&jssCart=0e6f913b51c02e58ed010615ffcc5515​
> 
> Ok so... this system looks really easy to make, and it honestly looks like it would work really well. I was hoping some of you more advanced guys could give me a little bit of help with what I should include in my set up. I plan on growing ALL autoflowering plants, so I would like to add maybe 8 slots instead of 6 since the plants will be much much smaller. Second of all, I'm thinking of adding a drainage hose so taking the water out will be easy. Now my questions are, how do you feed the nutrients to the plants? do you just mix it into the water and the system takes care of teh rest, what about tests and stuff? do you have to lift the top off every single time you need to add pH balancer or n e thing like that? I dont have any experience in this field so im hoping some of you guys could explain it to me. Thanks.​


 
I would use a scaled down dwc system.


----------



## lax4wm (Feb 10, 2008)

Here are two pics of my very cheap home made DWC Bucket system, it's very simple and if you have questions feel free to PM me.

1 Air Pump
Hose
air stone

5 gallon bucket
net cup
hydroton 
rock wool cube


Don't forget whatever container you use should be light proofed, my buckets weren't light proofed at the time of these pictures.

Hope this helps.

**Edit the pics don't seem to be showing up. GOing to try and embed them here**


----------



## snuggles (Feb 10, 2008)

Good job with that. They working good for you?

Wasn't to bad on cost either was it, considering it's a onetime thing?


----------



## lax4wm (Feb 10, 2008)

Yea man they are working great, I still haven't done it but it keeps me up at night, if you have the money get a used TDS off of ebay...and if you can't afford the PH tester, get some litmus paper withy the correct range.  This system is working great so far, changing the buckets solution is a pain in the butt, but hey its only once every 10 days....but i can help you with that once you get there.

But for now you should check out my journal i'll be updating it in a little bit with pictures of this beastly little bush i got in one of em:hubba: if you like how they look, this is the cheapest hydro method IMO, and has room for great yields...assuming I make my way through my first time without any mistakes!! ::knocks on wood::

Good luck!


----------

