# Questions about guns baggies numbers scales etc



## 2Dog (Dec 22, 2009)

Ok so as most of you know I grow legally in california. My bro's friend is a cop. Bro has asked him many questions regarding how they handle certain situations with marijuana growers.
1. Guns we have been told that if we have a gun in the house and we are growing it looks really bad, the cops will come down harder and push for a distribiting charge even if gun is legal and say a shotgun. what do you think of this?
2. scales I have a small digi scale cop told him that is another big no no where they will try to say it is for selling even if I say it is to know how much meds I am taking a day etc..
3. plastic bags again he says these are a huge deal I have them in pantry nromal kitchen stuff I try to keep everything in jars...how do you feel about bags in the house?
4. lots of jars..I have a huge jar collection does this go against me if I get a cop looking through them even though there is no weight in them?
5. pitt bull..I have one a mix breed. I am in no way going to give her up but his friend mentioned that it is another strike against a grower..
6. maybe most imortant he said anybody over 50 plants is screwed and they will be treated way more aggresively by investigators..I can grow over 50 but dont.. what do you think of this?

so in all I guess I am asking your opinions on keeping these things in the home? Do I really need to get rid of my scale..I do want to be safe as possible as there are people in prison for doing what I am doing even though the states says it's ok my county is really fighting it shutting down clubs..


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## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 22, 2009)

IMO...if  they  want  to  charge  ya  with  anything  they  will  find  a way....The  baggie  one  kills  me...just  my  thaughts  


Merry Christmas  *2Dog*:48:


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## surreptitious (Dec 22, 2009)

4u2 is right.  if they want to charge you with something they will.  your only hope would in the court room.

personally, it's not illegal own a gun (if you do it right), to own baggies, to own jars, to own a pitbul, to own scales or even the plants in your state.  I dont know how the laws work in cali.  if you are that worried about it, contact a lawyer.


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## 2Dog (Dec 22, 2009)

I am not so much worried..as being cautious. I will not go to prison..I dont think I could handle being locked up so I want to be smart. I think the scale is going to go..


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 22, 2009)

if pot is legal where you are, you have the 2nd amendment right to arm yourselves any way you see fit...if i grew in cali you bet your buds i'll have some kind of firearm to defend my home from the folks who may want to rob me...are belt feds legal in cali ?


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## 2Dog (Dec 22, 2009)

it is technically locally legal but not federally..and the local chief dyer is a pot nazi...as far as he is concerned federal trumps state in this area.


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 22, 2009)

his beliefs are unconstitutional.....i've had a few run in's with the feds (FBI,ATF) and unless you are "affecting interstate commerce" ,you are by law outside of their jurisdiction(spelling?). law is a funny animal cause if you go to court not knowing the law the other side WILL take full advantage of it..thats why the feds have a 95% conviction rate.


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## umbra (Dec 22, 2009)

I have friends in CO with the same issues. Except everyone in CO owns a gun.


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## pcduck (Dec 22, 2009)

Here where it is really frowned upon, the scale and the gun looks bad but what looks bad to a cop does not make it illegal. For the scale I would just say I use it for my diet and for the gun..the way things are going around here I need one to protect myself and property. But now if you have a scale, some plastic bags, and a gun all inside a glass mason jar being guarded by a pitbull while growing marijuana then you are really screwed:aok:


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## dirtyolsouth (Dec 22, 2009)

pcduck said:
			
		

> But now if you have a scale, some plastic bags, and a gun all inside a glass mason jar being guarded by a pitbull while growing marijuana then you are really screwed:aok:



:rofl:  NICE, PCduck...

I think one good precaution retailers dont do from the common sense file is to keep these items far from your grow and/or dried stash.  Many dealers will keep their weed, cash, IOU list, scale and baggies in one place... and it's not hard to make a case when it's all tied up in a bow for them. :cop: I have a small digital scale that I keep in the kitchen cabinet next to the baking supplies.  The baggies I keep with all the like food storage items/wraps/foil, etc.  And the doggie likes to chomp down on balls...  and doesn't discriminate too much what kind...:hubba:  I don't own a gun but if I did I would sure have it registered, legit and stored properly. IF god fotbid they ever did come in I'd tell them where the gun was...

Peace!:huh:


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## Mutt (Dec 22, 2009)

> The federal government claims that marijuana is not medicine and in Gonzales v. Raich (2005), the United States Supreme Court held that the federal government has the constitutional authority to prohibit marijuana for all purposes. Thus, federal law enforcement officials may prosecute medical marijuana patients, even if they grow their own medicine and even if they reside in a state where medical marijuana use is protected under state law. The Court indicated that Congress and the Food and Drug Administration should work to resolve this issue.





> Fed Law regarding weapons and federal felonies
> *Use or Carrying a Firearm with Violence or Drug Offenses*​ 18 USC 924(c) makes it a crime to use or carry a gun in relation to any crime involving violence or drug trafficking. Just hiding a gun nearby, generally, is not enough to convict under the "use" of a firearm. For "carrying" a gun found in a home near to drugs found doesnt amount to "carrying" a firearm under 924 (c). The sentence imposed must be served consecutively or after any other sentence. There are mandatory minimum sentences under this section. For instance, if the firearm was brandished, 7 years, discharged, 10 years, short-barreled rifle or short barreled shotgun, 10 years, machine gun 30 years. Also, there are other sentencing enhancements like the Armed Career Criminal Act, where the defendant has 3 or more prior convictions for violent felonies or serious drug offenses.​



I would not have the gun with the herb under any circumstances. keep it in a seperate location. Best it not be there at all TBO. State law may be very different. I heard like Cali is really tough on guns where i'm at its not so harsh.



​
but after its said in done...you might not be able to have a gun legally.


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## parkone (Dec 22, 2009)

I've also been told your grow area can not be larger than 10x10ft.


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## mojavemama (Dec 22, 2009)

I like what DOS and Mutt said. 2 Dog is legal, to begin with, and she's not out on the street selling, just growing her own medicine. The Chief of Police would have to have a darned good reason to come to your house. 

As for the scale---so right, DOS--keep it in the kitchen cupboard, and you could even paste a picture of a piece of cake in a red circle with a diagonal line through it. It would be obviously a diet aide. <G> 

And the jars? Keep them with a book on canning vegetables, and even put a few handwritten labels on some of the jars, like "Peaches, 20008" or "Stewed Tomatoes." 

Nutes and other stuff like that--keep with your outdoor flower supplies. And place a few flower seed packets or herb seed packets with the tools and nutes. 

I also wouldn't hesitate to actually grow a few pots of herbs in your grow room as well--they are wonderful for cooking, dressing up a dinner plate, and making a grow room look legit. Gourmet cooking is a big deal thing now, very popular too. Lots of home chefs grow their own herbs all year long. If my hubby didn't have his basil, thyme and chives growing, he'd quit cooking. OH, and Rosemary is VERY pungent, masks the pot smell well. 

And if LEO comes, you can offer the nice officer a few baggies of basil, thyme, chives, and rosemary for home cooking, along with a recipe for a great lasagna dish!


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## the chef (Dec 22, 2009)

:goodposting: mmama took the thoughts right out of my head! 2dog simple things will keep you out of view of the old chiefy.  No matter how you spin your constitutional whatever as you already know at least for right now on a federal level what we do is illegal and federal laws in all states concerning mmj, supercede state laws...we'll see next year! Keep it simple: Kepp your stuff out of site and you'll be out of thier mind! Got a gun? Keep it put up in a closet and one thing the dealers don't have is a lock guard on the triggers. You see even under california law that firearm is rendered homesafe fer you and your children. With a guard it signifies that your firearm is for home protection and you are taking the appropriate steps to make it safe to have in your home. Dealers need something to quickdraw, you don't.....i hope Kepp your scales and all put up in case of visitors and relax. If your doing something to be noticed, you will be and if your not...........


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## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 22, 2009)

nice  discusion 2Dog...I  would  like  to  add for those  that  are  not  leagle....that  if  ya  get  popped  they  will  add  as  many  charges  as  hey  can  against  ya...here  is  Washington  I  have  a  permit  to  carry  a  firearm...But  chose  not  to  because  of  the  federal  level.  But  I  will  no  way  give  up  my  GUNS..nor  Growing.and  if  ya  truely  fallow  the  state  laws  then  they  have  no  right  to  bother  you...But  also  think  if  ya  have  a  bunch  of  jars  filled  they  may  look  at that as  intent..lol..okay need  to  hit  my  bong  now...


Take care and be safe


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## 2Dog (Dec 22, 2009)

I am very under the radar as they say...I have never even pulled over or gotten a ticket..knock on wood..never had the cops called etc...but! I have been to the clubs and I have read and heard on the news that they are sopenaing (is that a word lol) the records...has all info in there how much we grow where we live. A felon could run through my backyard and they need to search they sometimes go door to door in neighborhoods if kids are missing..etc just the what in case thoughts here I am too pretty to go to a jail full of lesbians..I'd have to live dirty


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## the chef (Dec 22, 2009)

Don't worry i'm sure they will be looking at huge grows and by the time  and if they look at the smaller growers it will be legal in cali. Still thinkin on moving there.


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## surreptitious (Dec 22, 2009)

PUFF MONKEY said:
			
		

> if pot is legal where you are, you have the 2nd amendment right to arm yourselves any way you see fit...if i grew in cali you bet your buds i'll have some kind of firearm to defend my home from the folks who may want to rob me...are belt feds legal in cali ?


 
LOL, are belt feds legal in cali.  thats pretty funny.  i know for a fact that there is no carry conceal handgun permit in cali.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 22, 2009)

Sounds like you got alot of good advice 2dog.  I gues this is where we all weigh wether this is worth the price we may have to pay if we get in trouble.  You seem like a very intelligent woman, usually the people who are getting busted, are either running their mouths when and where they shouldn't, or have sold to someone that they shouldn't.  You aren't a dealer, and hopefully your not show and telling your grow to anyone.  You have every right to own a firearm, and you are legal in your state to grow, I think the cheif, wether a pot nazi or not, knows how hard it will be to convict someone in your shoes in the courts.  The feds are not going to mess with you unless you start makeing alot of money and flaunting it.  You are a couple steps ahead of most of us that are still doing this the old fashioned way.

Yes Jail sucks, but if you had to spend a couple nights it honestly won't kill you, and even people who are busted for cultivating in illegal states don't usually do hard time for their first offense, they don't want to throw tax payers in jail.  They do want to throw people in jail who are making a grand a day, and not paying taxes.  You are safe...same as all of us (a little more than most because of your legality) as long as you keep your mouth shut about it.


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## surreptitious (Dec 22, 2009)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I would not have the gun with the herb under any circumstances. keep it in a seperate location. Best it not be there at all TBO. State law may be very different. I heard like Cali is really tough on guns where i'm at its not so harsh.
> 
> 
> 
> but after its said in done...you might not be able to have a gun legally.


 
where i'm at if you are 18 years old you can go to a gun store and purchase a long gun.  they do a quick check on you with a certain database (FBI or whatever) if it comes back clean you can walk out the door with it.

we also have a carry conceal law.  you have to take a gun safety course.  then you fill out a packet of information (ie a doctor has to sign it to say that you arent crazy and are fit to carry a gun)  after they take the packet, they review it, take your finger prints, and 8-10 weeks later they call you up and you get the permit.  as long as nothing bad came back about you in their investigation.

with this card you have the legal right to carry a concealed handgun.  you can carry it anywhere you want except a few places: 1. any place that has a sign on their door specifically stating no handguns allowed.  2. any place that serves alcohol.  3.  any place that you have to pay for enterance. 4. any religious building 5. any private land that you dont have the permission of the owner to carry.

you also have the right to purchase as many hand guns that you want.  although, i believe if you buy more than 5 at a time you are put on a list.

the class that you go through also teaches you when you are legally allowed to use deadly force on someone.  

1.  you actually believe deadly forces is needed to prevent the threat of death, great harm, or sexual assault to you or someone else.
2 .  someone other normal person would believe the same thing
3.  you did not instigate the need for deadly force.
4.  the force you did use was not excessive.

that's a lot of steps to go through in your head in a quick instant.  these are the laws where i live.  the instructor of our safety class said this: "if someone comes at you with a knife you pull out your gun a shoot them"  by the time they get close enough with a knife they will be threatning your life.

anyways, i'm rambling now lol


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## nvthis (Dec 23, 2009)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> i know for a fact that there is no carry conceal handgun permit in cali.


 
 Not too sure how you can know that as a fact since, in fact, there is...


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## HippyInEngland (Dec 23, 2009)

Hello 5Dogs 

For your own peace of mind maybe its time to get rid of the scales.

eace:

Very interesting read.


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## 2Dog (Dec 23, 2009)

thats what Im thinking Hip where u been..


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## HippyInEngland (Dec 23, 2009)

Busy time of year here.

eace:


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## 2Dog (Dec 23, 2009)

sometimes it's good to be busy. gets the blood flowing. I thought maybe you froze.


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## HippyInEngland (Dec 23, 2009)

The temp is -6 outside so there could be a possibilty :rofl:

eace:


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## The Effen Gee (Dec 23, 2009)

Put the gun in a safe and keep the ammo seperate.
Keep the scale far away from your baggies.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 23, 2009)

My advice...ditch the scales. Period. It will catch u a sales charge everytime.

Everything else, including the guns, are good to go. You can have a Shotty in the growroom if you are TRULY within legal limits.


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## surreptitious (Dec 23, 2009)

nvthis said:
			
		

> Not too sure how you can know that as a fact since, in fact, there is...


 
hmm.  well i know that the carry conceal permit i have will not work in cali.  it works in Washington State, ID, MT, ND, SD, UT, CO, AZ, NM, AK, KS, OK, TX, MO, AR, LA, TN, GA, FL, AL, MS, NC, VA, OH, MI, PA, KT, NH, VT and DE

but not in cali.  guess i'm mis-informed about california. my mistake.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 23, 2009)

HippyInEngland said:
			
		

> Busy time of year here.
> 
> eace:


 

Could Hippy secretly be Santa Claus??????


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## cubby (Dec 23, 2009)

In my opinion, the only thing that could raise a red flag would be the scale. Because if they assume your doing something illeagal, they will still give you lots of aggrivation untill they know better.


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## nvthis (Dec 23, 2009)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> hmm. well i know that the carry conceal permit i have will not work in cali. it works in Washington State, ID, MT, ND, SD, UT, CO, AZ, NM, AK, KS, OK, TX, MO, AR, LA, TN, GA, FL, AL, MS, NC, VA, OH, MI, PA, KT, NH, VT and DE
> 
> but not in cali. guess i'm mis-informed about california. my mistake.


 
It may be you might need some kind of special extension permit specifically for Cali, but you can get them...

hXXp://www.californiaconcealedcarry.com/faq.html


Now this time lapsed map is just plain cool. Check it out! 

hXXp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Rtc.gif


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## eastla_kushsmoka (Dec 23, 2009)

ha


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## nvthis (Dec 24, 2009)

"California does not honor any other state&#8217;s concealed weapons permits!"


There that is. Leave it to California. Guess the only way around it is to apply for the Cccw.


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## surreptitious (Dec 24, 2009)

after you mentioned it i did some ready about it, but i do not live in california.  
i believe that one of the requirements for the California CCW is a 16 hour course?  that's a lot of time.  the one here was only 2-3 hours.

i think i'll just stay in my gun loving little piece of heaven on earth lol


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## nvthis (Dec 24, 2009)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> after you mentioned it i did some ready about it, but i do not live in california.
> i believe that one of the requirements for the California CCW is a 16 hour course? that's a lot of time. the one here was only 2-3 hours.
> 
> i think i'll just stay in my gun loving little piece of heaven on earth lol


 
California/Diane Frankenstein and guns never seem to mix well


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## Smokey Mcpotster (Dec 24, 2009)

Did someone on here post this before? If they did I aplolgize, I saw this somewhere, can't remember.

hxxp://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4097602514885833865#
xx to tt
I thought it was pretty interesting.


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## snaxforgandhi (Dec 24, 2009)

_"...You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to 2Dog again..."_


Good post 2Dog. You _seem _to have kicked something loose. Lots'a oh-pinions. Interesting.

~Snax


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 25, 2009)

dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> :rofl: NICE, PCduck...
> 
> I think one good precaution retailers dont do from the common sense file is to keep these items far from your grow and/or dried stash. Many dealers will keep their weed, cash, IOU list, scale and baggies in one place... and it's not hard to make a case when it's all tied up in a bow for them. :cop: I have a small digital scale that I keep in the kitchen cabinet next to the baking supplies. The baggies I keep with all the like food storage items/wraps/foil, etc. And the doggie likes to chomp down on balls... and doesn't discriminate too much what kind...:hubba: I don't own a gun but if I did I would sure have it registered, legit and stored properly. IF god fotbid they ever did come in I'd tell them where the gun was...
> 
> Peace!:huh:


gun registration does not exist in my state...yay


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 25, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> Put the gun in a safe and keep the ammo seperate.
> Keep the scale far away from your baggies.


in a situation where a firearm is needed, very rarely do you have time to load your weapon....i know this first hand...when i worked 3rd shift at a local BP station years ago, there was an "attempted" robbery on 2 separate occasions....my lead flew first in both cases....no way would i have had time to load my weapon first....i did'nt hurt em too bad lol..


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 25, 2009)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> LOL, are belt feds legal in cali. thats pretty funny. i know for a fact that there is no carry conceal handgun permit in cali.


not a ccp but in-home possesion is legal in all states...even mandatory in 1 or 2 areas


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 25, 2009)

Here is an interesting note that sort of falls in here.  I was in a rehab with a guy who had a small hydro system, and 3 guys broke in to his house to steal his weed.  He woke up when they shot his dog, for trying to stop them. He shot all 3 of them killing one, wounding the other 3.  He did NO time for the shootings, and he was booked and released on the manufacturing charge.  He got probation, and had to do the rehab thing for the growing.  This was in Ohio, and I know every state is different, but I think it is pretty much standard across the land, that we have the right to defend ourselves in our homes.


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## Mutt (Dec 25, 2009)

nvthis said:
			
		

> There that is. Leave it to California. Guess the only way around it is to apply for the Cccw.



Not to start any aurguments...but thats democrats for ya. (republican aren't much better..but at least they fight for my right to bear arms) Good luck finding .38 ammo anywhere. :rant: I got 20rnds of +P hollow pts for my carry thats all and have been looking for ammo for 6 mos now.
Oh sure can get 300mags, 270, 30-06 all day long...no one has 38 40 or 9mm anywhere. they say ammo "shortage" I call ** becuase all govt issue is 9,45, and 40....38 hasn't been govt issue in decades.
yeah "oh we won't take your guns..we'll just stop with ammo"

I want MJ decrimd like everyone else here, but i don't want it at the price of losing the rights we already have, careful for who you vote for.......end rant.


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## pcduck (Dec 25, 2009)

Mutt they tried that once before stopping the ammo, said they were gonna make it harder to get/regulate. I went and got a reloader and a boat load of brass and found out I could reload better rounds then what ya can buy.


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## greenfriend (Dec 25, 2009)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> LOL, are belt feds legal in cali. thats pretty funny. i know for a fact that there is no carry conceal handgun permit in cali.


 
Yes there is.  Where i live in the bay area, 

1) no permit needed for semi-auto shotgun, rifle
2) no CCW permit for carrying handgun in plain sight in belt holster, however you do need a permit to own a handgun
3) Concealed weapons permits can be obtained through the county sheriffs office.
4) fully automatic assault rifles purchased early 90's or before are legal.


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## Mutt (Dec 26, 2009)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Mutt they tried that once before stopping the ammo, said they were gonna make it harder to get/regulate. I went and got a reloader and a boat load of brass and found out I could reload better rounds then what ya can buy.


at my CWP class (required by state run by the NRA) they said not to use reloads in your carry. Said that using reloads in a court case the lawyer for the person got shot said that the reloads were made extra hot and reloaded to kill or sumit.  It actually got the person shooting in trouble. people that own and use guns know better, but a jury with no real knowledge bought it. 
I might reload my target rounds tho, Its been a bit since i ran a 25 rnds through it.


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## pcduck (Dec 26, 2009)

Mutt said:
			
		

> reloads were made extra hot and reloaded to kill or sumit.



Is there any other reason to point a gun at a human?:confused2: I thought that was the whole point. Leave it to a lawyer to screw it up... I have always found more consistent accuracy when using reloads.


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## Hick (Dec 26, 2009)

IMO.. a lot depends on the 'jurisdiction'... and the entities involved, what the 'final' outcome will result.      BUT... I guarantee you, without a shadow of doubt,..._IF_ leo busts your grow, ALL of the above mentioned will be used to 'enhance' the charges against you.


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## fishcabo (Dec 26, 2009)

The guns are the worst thing in my opinion.  Store them at a cousin's house or something until you need them for hunting.  If you feel you need a pistol for protection from thieves, it would be loaded which is all kinds of trouble.  If someone came to rob you and you shot them with a grow in the house, not good.  Give the thief what they want.  Always save a jar with some pot sprayed with creosote or something for a special gift.  In Cali, you can have 8 oz. per patient.  How is one to know what 8 oz is.


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 26, 2009)

fishcabo said:
			
		

> The guns are the worst thing in my opinion. Store them at a cousin's house or something until you need them for hunting. If you feel you need a pistol for protection from thieves, it would be loaded which is all kinds of trouble. If someone came to rob you and you shot them with a grow in the house, not good. Give the thief what they want. Always save a jar with some pot sprayed with creosote or something for a special gift. In Cali, you can have 8 oz. per patient. How is one to know what 8 oz is.


never give up without a fight......i lost several friends in the 90's when paul reed went on a robbing/killing spree in nashville...i knew everyone of those kids who died...my best friend(who now works for 2 gunstores)was supposed to be working at mickydee's the night 6 people were murdered..the only reason he was'nt there was because i called him earlier that day and told him i had some good squeef. he was already mad that his last check was'nt right so he said screw it and quit hours before everyone else died.....the moral of this story is YOU FIGHT AND YOU FIGHT HARD....giving criminals what they want only encourages them to do more of what they do...shoot them in the face and watch their numbers fall....


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 26, 2009)

oh,...did i mention that every store robbed by reed had a "give it to em' policy...that man took the money that was handed to him, placed everyone on the floor and shot them in the back of the head....


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 26, 2009)

i'll be judged by 12 before i'm carried by 6......


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 26, 2009)

fishcabo said:
			
		

> The guns are the worst thing in my opinion. Store them at a cousin's house or something until you need them for hunting. If you feel you need a pistol for protection from thieves, it would be loaded which is all kinds of trouble. If someone came to rob you and you shot them with a grow in the house, not good. Give the thief what they want. Always save a jar with some pot sprayed with creosote or something for a special gift. In Cali, you can have 8 oz. per patient. How is one to know what 8 oz is.


i'm sorry dude and i am not attacking you but, someone threatens your life and you think pot with a nasty taste is revenge??? this is the problem with the citizens of this country...too many folks afraid to say "i ain't gonna put up with it" ....now look what we have....


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 26, 2009)

I agree that this just give them what they want policy is what keeps the criminals going...they know what 90% will do, hand it over with out a fight.

Did anyone look at the statistics of violent crimes in their states after CCW permits were issued?  I know that in MI the rates of violent crimes (especially rapes) dropped considerably, because the sicko's didn't know which women were carrying...I'm all for the right to defend yourself, and personally even if I was hurt or killed in the process, I would rather my loved ones knew that I fought, rather than just give in.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 26, 2009)

greenfriend said:
			
		

> Yes there is. Where i live in the bay area,
> 
> 1) no permit needed for semi-auto shotgun, rifle
> 2) no CCW permit for carrying handgun in plain sight in belt holster, however you do need a permit to own a handgun
> ...


 
This is all true.

You can still build AR-15's in Cali, but I have to make alot of little "tweaks" in order to comply with the newer laws.
IE; You can only have a 10 round mag or less.....BUT, you can have a 30 round mag modified to hold only 10 rounds. The "modification" is a couple of screws that can be adjusted to allow 30 rounds....highly illegal tho...

Another fun fact is that with any AR or AK build, the Mag MUST be fixed, and ONLY top breech loading of the rifle is acceptable. This means, if you drop the Mag from the rifle, it is now an Illegal Assult rifle.

There are Fixed Magizine holders that you buy in Cali that are nicknamed "bullet buttons" Bascially, if you in stall one of these to secure your Mag to the rifle, it only takes the tip of a 5.56 round to "relese" the Magizine for "cleaning".

They do make it a pain in the *** 
Us Californians do have it tougher then ANY other state, i do believe, but, as with anything else, there are "grey areas" that get exploited.

Whats friggin sad is it takes about $1200-1500 to build a "Cali-Legal" AR-15 or an AK, but I can go buy a full auto AK on the street for 600 bucks.

Crazy.




			
				Hick said:
			
		

> BUT... I guarantee you, without a shadow of doubt,..._IF_ leo busts your grow, ALL of the above mentioned will be used to 'enhance' the charges against you.


 
This is not completley accurate. I know a number of folks who have had LEO (Local or State mind you), and have inspected gardens and found weapons, but as long as you are following the Law on both the Grow and the Firearms, all WILL be well.

But Hick has a good point, if it is a Fed Agency, then you are cooked.


I try to stay within my limits. I have multiple guns and rifles and they stay loaded in my home. Not only is it a Right, but just damn Male instinct to protect you and yours.


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## PUFF MONKEY (Dec 26, 2009)

the cali-legal AR-15 grips make the gun so ugly it's not worth having...it looks like a black clam...


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## DonJones (Dec 26, 2009)

2dog,

I'm going to PO a lot of people, but you are trying to do the impossible -- make your self arrest proof and it is just plain impossible.

Legalize_freedom has the best advice and comments of anyone that I have read and some posts may being made while I'm composing this that I haven't read yet.

I can empathize with your situation because we have the same type of female gestapo chief here in Spokane, WA.  She spent over a month "investigating" and up in your face dispensary, busting it and using that bust to intimidate the other dispensaries with the city limits into closing only to discover that she and her city prosecutors COULD NOT prosecute because only the county prosecutor and the state attorney general can file felony charges and/or prosecute them in the state of Washington.  The 2 arrested  are still out on bond, but no charges have been filed.  Our other inside the city limits dispensaries are slowly reopening but a lot lower key operations style.  None of the low key operator were busted even though they were all operating as nearly identically as possible.


Most importantly, PLEASE DON'T ANY ONE COME HERE ASKING FOR LEGAL ADVICE -- 99% OF WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO GET IS OPINION STATED AS FACT BY WELL INTENTIONED BUT UNINFORMED OR MISINFORMED PEOPLE WHO AT BEST ARE "JAIL HOUSE LAWYERS" AND EVEN IF THEY ARE SPEAKING FROM THEIR OWN ACTUAL EXPERIENCE AND/OR KNOWLEDGE, THERE ARE WAY TOO MANY VARIABLE TO MAKE IT MEANINGFUL!  Even with the best possible LEGAL ADVICE good innocent people get falsly arrested and some of them also get falsely convicted.

*If you have legal questions about anything, especially firearms and/or drugs, including marijuana, find a good local attorney who has a record of successfully defending people who are charged with the kinds of crimes that you are concerned about, make an appointment to discuss your concerns with him/her, MAKE A LIST, TAKE IT WITH YOU AND FOLLOW IT TO MAKE SURE YOU DON'T MISS ANYTHING!  If you keep it short and to the point, most attorneys will charge less that $100 and a lot of them nothing for the first1/2 hour to an hour, and if you prepare properly you can discuss a lot in an hour.*  How much is your piece of mind, and knowing where you are more at risk and how to lower that risk worth to you?

This advice is coming to you from a "jail house lawyer" who was the first non-attorney to co-represent himself, co-brief his case and co-argue it before the WA state Court of Appeals and has a three for 4 success rate before the Appeals court and the 4th wasn't really a matter of winning or loosing it was a question of whether the court of appeals had jurisdiction to enjoin certain actions by the law enforcement community and I knew going in that they probably didn't have jurisdiction, but it was a free shot.

Even with that background I am definitely NOT qualified to be answering your concerns, even if I lived next door to you so what makes you think any one else on theses forums is qualified to give you legal advice, especially on the actions of the local PD when they don't even live in California?

I am probably one of the most up in LEOs face legal grower you're going to find in Washington State, and we have a real simple Medical Marijuana Law that a 5th grader can read and understand, BUT I don't give legal advice other than "Here is what I'm doing and what I would do under these circumstances."  

That Chief of Police has a badge, a gun and the whole force to back him up.  That means he can do any darn thing he wants and if you resit you may wind up dead.  That does NOT mean that the judge won't slap his hand -- usually very gently -- and tell him he went too far, but he can pick any house at random and raid it without no probable cause and you are helpless until you go to court whether they find any thing or not.  NO IT'S NOT LEGAL BUT THAT'S THE WAY IT IS.

IF YOUR GOAL IS TO STAY OUT OF JAIL, THEN IT MAKES ABSOLUTELY NO DIFFERENCE WHAT THE LAW SAYS -- THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS WHAT THE COURTS SAY IT MEANS!

As to some of the comments that have been posted:

Most states prohibit local law enforcement for enforcing federal law. Even if they don't federal law prosecution is a specialized area that most local prosecutors don't understand and don't want to mess with.

What do you think the odds are that a local prosecutor is going to try to prosecute under federal law when the chief federal law enforcement officers, the President and the US Attorney General have said not to prosecute medical marijuana patient who are in compliance with their state laws. SO MUCH FOR FEDERAL LAW TRUMPS STATE LAW-- while it is generally true in this case the federal law enforcement circles have said the state laws prevail and only after you are convicted in state court do their laws apply!

As to "I know for a fact there is no such thing as a concealed weapons carry permit in California"  -- poppy cock -- maybe not that you can get but I'll guarantee that there are whole lot is non-law enforcement people legally carrying concealed firearms in California.

Dump the scales -- WHY?  Even the feds won't decide to bust a grower solely on the basis of whether or not you have scales!  I know several very successful illegal local dealers that have never used a scale and wouldn't know how to if you tried to teach them.  The only dealers that rely on scales are the ones moving serious weight and then it is mostly to prevent giving some of it away.  Although some of my local acquaintances in the trade take just the opposite view, always give them a little extra and they'll be back for more.  ONCE AGAIN IT GETS BACK TO LEO WILL DO WHATEVER HE WANTS TO DO AND I KNOW OF NO LAW IN ANY STATE THAT MAKES POSSEsSION OF HIGHLY ACCURATE SCALES A CRIME.  My GOD, most drug scales are only accurate to0.1 gram, if that and PD DUCK"S reloading scales are accurate to at least 0.1 grain if not 0.01 grain and 0.1 grain =0.0065 grams and his relaoding scales aren't illegal!  Once a gain IF LEO WANTS YOUR BUTT HE WILL HAVE IT UNTIL A JUDGE SAYS HE WENT TO FAR AND RELEASES YOU!

My purpose here is NOT to offend but to try to help people avoid lgal problems by following the wrong advice.

Good growing and good smoking.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Dec 26, 2009)

fishcabo said:
			
		

> The guns are the worst thing in my opinion.  Store them at a cousin's house or something until you need them for hunting.  If you feel you need a pistol for protection from thieves, it would be loaded which is all kinds of trouble.  If someone came to rob you and you shot them with a grow in the house, not good.  Give the thief what they want.  Always save a jar with some pot sprayed with creosote or something for a special gift.  In Cali, you can have 8 oz. per patient.  How is one to know what 8 oz is.


If someone has forced entry into my house and I shoot them, growing or not, I have the right to defend my family. They can say what they want in court, but at the end of the day that person broke the law by entering my home without permission and invading my personal safety, and I have the right to defend my family and property. Again, that goes for any law-abiding American, growing or not.
To say you would just give up and let an intruder get what they want is really quite scary to me. Who's to say all they want is your pot? Lots of break-ins all the time by rapists, killers, etc not just thieves. What if that person is after your wife or daughter? Are you just going to lay down their personal safety because having a gun might make you look bad in court should you get popped for growing?
Sorry, this isn't a personal attack but this is the wild west people. I'll take the chance of getting hung-up in court over something terrible happening to my family, which may have been avoidable with a little protection.
Scales and baggies, yeah not a good idea. As a personal grower you don't really _need _that stuff.


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## 2Dog (Dec 26, 2009)

hey don thanks for the responce I didnt want legal advice I figured the cop gave me that...I wanted opinions and other peoples outlooks..I will bet getting rid of the scale..no guns will be bought and I will remain under 50 plants..To clarify the number thing anything over 50 gets turned over to the feds..I am not trying to be arrest proof I am trying to not leave anything up to chance. Yes growing weed can get me arrested but adding on extra years for other things that arent necessary seems like a big chance to me. Jail is one thing prison is quite another...  I appreciate everyones responses..


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## NorCalHal (Dec 27, 2009)

PUFF MONKEY said:
			
		

> the cali-legal AR-15 grips make the gun so ugly it's not worth having...it looks like a black clam...


 
You CAN use regular forward pistol grips in Cali on a AR build. There are just a few "tweaks" you have to have in order to install it, one being the locked" Mag.
If you want a removable mag, then ya, you have to use a funky forward grip, that sucks.

O.L.L. That is the start of a beautiful thing.


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## ArtVandolay (Dec 27, 2009)

In my opinion, handguns are pretty worthless for home defense, although I have a 9mm and a 380.  Even if you do hit what you're aiming at, the misses go through the wall into the next room.  Give me the 12 gauge any day.  The laws down here in FL are pretty clear about self defense, especially home invasion :hubba:


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## DonJones (Dec 27, 2009)

The only thing worst than relying on the forum for legal advice is relying on a cop.  Now there are exceptions to every rule, but cops are the worst source of legal advice, especially when ti is filtered through two or three intermediaries and originally directed at the cop's family member.

Cops will think of every possible far fetched case that they have heard of and don't differentiate from a 20 year old case and a current case. Most o fthem have very little legal training or knowledge.  For example, my oldest son was arrested for "custodial interference" when according to the state law it clearly did NOT apply to uncles, the law provided for the actions he took under the circumstances he was in even for a parent or grandparent and get this, he was arrested under a non existent city ordinance.  He was arrested under a city ordinance adopting the state law as a city ordinance BUT there was no such city ordinance.

That kind of crap happens every day all over the nation, and yet people rely on cops for legal information!  Even when you have copy of the law that is very clear and simple to show the cop or even worse the person who got legal advice from the cop that clearly and positively contradicts the cop, they will still insist that the cop is right until the prosecutor dismisses charges.  I could flood the server with examples, but just take my word for it.  

IF YOU HAVE ANY LEGAL CONCERNS FIND A GOOD LOCAL ATTORNEY WHO IS FAMILIAR WITH THE PARTICULAR ISSUE AND GET HIS ADVICE *BEFORE* YOU GET IN TROUBLE OR PASS ON SOMETHING THAT IS COMPLETELY LEGAL AND SAFE BECAUSE OF FEAR OF THE UNKNOWN AND MISINFORMATION!  This not my advice, it is the advice of most attorneys who would rather spend an hour of their time advising you that thousands of your dollars straightening it out later.

Heck, here in Spokane the clinics that grant the recommendatoins are spreading all kinds of "legal advice" on how to stay out of troouble and so-called requirements to run a legal grow that have absolutely NO BASIS IN THE LAW, EITHER THE STATUTE ITSELF OR EVEN MORE IMPORTANTLY CASE LAW WHERE THE COURTS HAVE INTERPRETED THE LAW!

Do as you want to and believe who you want to, but I'll follow the advice of the attorney that will represent me in a court of law if I get into trouble before I'll rely on second or third hand information coming from the very people who will be the ones trying to put me away.

2dog, this is NOT directed to you personally and you are well with in your rights to ask anyone you choose for legal advice.  Before you do though, review this thread and see how many of the people that even claimed to know California law agreed with any of your friend's cop's advice.  Doesn't that tell you that just maybe the cop was talking crap?

Good smoking


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## pcduck (Dec 27, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> maybe the cop was talking crap?




When don't they?..:rofl::bolt::bong2:


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## surreptitious (Dec 27, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> The only thing worst than relying on the forum for legal advice is relying on a cop. Now there are exceptions to every rule, but cops are the worst source of legal advice, especially when ti is filtered through two or three intermediaries and originally directed at the cop's family member.
> 
> Cops will think of every possible far fetched case that they have heard of and don't differentiate from a 20 year old case and a current case. Most o fthem have very little legal training or knowledge. For example, my oldest son was arrested for "custodial interference" when according to the state law it clearly did NOT apply to uncles, the law provided for the actions he took under the circumstances he was in even for a parent or grandparent and get this, he was arrested under a non existent city ordinance. He was arrested under a city ordinance adopting the state law as a city ordinance BUT there was no such city ordinance.
> 
> ...


 
i agree with this.  cops do not legally interpret the law.  that's not their job.  their job is to "enforce" the law.  going to a lawyer is definately the better route. 

also, i was wrong about the CCW in Cali.  My mistake.


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## 2Dog (Dec 27, 2009)

lol peeps I dont know how to make it clearer..this cop does busts and gave us the info of what they look for. We have known him for years. He is being helpful. I am not asking him how many years, what will happen if charged etc. I simply asked him what they look for when deciding to send a report to the feds...end of story. something I do not need a lawyer to answer. If people dont feel comfortable saying how they would or do handle these concerns that is cool. I dont need a lawyer. I am not spending a 100$ repeating it wont make it happen.  Now if anything ever does go down  a lawyer i will get..In fact my BIL is a lawyer..


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## pcduck (Dec 27, 2009)

what is a BIL?


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## Mutt (Dec 27, 2009)

Brother In Law


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## pcduck (Dec 27, 2009)

Thanks Mutt....sure was not what I was thinking:doh: :hitchair:


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