# PC case Growbox



## tryer77 (Nov 24, 2009)

Hi all,

Only been here a couple of days, but already seen a lot of great stuff.

I would like to present my project, which is a PC Growbox.

I think this will be more of a journal detailing how I built it, in the hope I give someone ese some ideas, and also that someone with more experience in these matters will knock me over the head, and point out something glaringly obvious that I am doing wrong 

Why a PC case?
Well, basically, because I like challenging myself, and the wife also started complaining that I never put my computers to good use 

My general idea is to make a growbox with a PC case I have. I will include the following:

- ATX powersupply - for supplying the voltage to the PC fans.
- 3 x 30w CFL's from IKEA (will update with the exact Lumens when I get round to actually buying them)
- a simple carbon filter driven by 2 pc fans

I plan to grow some lowryder Blueberry, as I heard they only reach around 14 inches.

So, this is what I am starting out with.

Basic PC case measuring 39cm x 19cm x 62cm.
Knock off 1cm in each axis for the interior measurements.

Now, as you will probably guess as this project evolves, I'm very bad at planning, and I'll usually change my plans randomly throughout the project.

The pictures below show the case after stripping it completely bare (gaddam I hate drilling out rivets...)

I have also started gluing on my reflective material on the case, as you can see on the PCI card part at the back.

Well, thats it for now, hopefully on friday I'll get started on my carbon filter.

cheers guys!

Tryer


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## 4u2sm0ke (Nov 24, 2009)

thats  what  those  Towers  are  for.Been  wanting  to  challange  myself on  one....Look  forward  to  seeing  this  in  action..when  do  ya  plan to  fire  it  up  and  finish  the  thread?


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## tryer77 (Nov 24, 2009)

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> ..when  do  ya  plan to  fire  it  up  and  finish  the  thread?





Basically, I'll be updating this as I go along...

Hopefully it shouldnt take more than 2 weeks (I only got about an hour or so to myself in the evenings...) So, yeah... definately a work in progress.

Another thing, guys, what do you prefer? That I should just edit my first post and put everything there, or should i just post new messages to this thread?


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## Locked (Nov 24, 2009)

tryer77 said:
			
		

> Basically, I'll be updating this as I go along...
> 
> Hopefully it shouldnt take more than 2 weeks (I only got about an hour or so to myself in the evenings...) So, yeah... definately a work in progress.
> 
> Another thing, guys, what do you prefer? That I should just edit my first post and put everything there, or should i just post new messages to this thread?



You shld continue this thread and keep posting until the pc box is done....then go to the Grow Journal forum and start a GJ...you will get more foot traffic there then here...and people can help you when you run into problems...and believe me you will run into them..everyone does...

Good luck and good choice going with a small auto strain...


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## DonJones (Nov 27, 2009)

tryer77,

A few suggestions:

I know what you are doing should be possible because I have seen references to it posted in other sections of the forum.  Try searching the Grow Room and Grow Journal sections for those posts. I don't remember where they were because I'm too busy trying to get my perpetual harvest of at least a pound every couple of months worked out. Also, I lean more to hydro and it would be extremely difficult to incorporate hydro inside of a PC case so I don't even read the threads -- I just remember seeing them from time to time.

Our forum search engine isn't very intuitive so I would search only the titles with no other filters and use a couple of different keyword for both the PC and Grow Box.  you will find every thread that uses any on the words you input so try to limit it as much as possible -- for instance "PC Grow Box" will give you every thread with any one of the three keywords.  You can imagine what happens when you add things like any ideas or help.  *You will probably learn more by searching for those threads than I can ever suggest.*

*Get the entire project designed out on paper before you drill a hole or build anything.  It is a whole lot easier to change your design on paper than after you start building it, especially without a pretty close and detailed idea of where everything goes, how each component will be built and from what, what size it will be and how the components will be fastened together * 

Then design the box *first*, probably even build it and then adapt the filter to your box, rather than building the filter first and having to design the box around it, because your main project and concern is the growing area since you won't need the filter unless your box works first -- no growth of the plant means no odor to control.

In my opinion (based on several temperature/humidity sensitive enclosures of various sizes, shapes and materials, after you get the basic "box/room" size and shape,  which is usually already pretty much fixed by either available space or the current design of the box/room) the most important and first step is to design the ventilation system to insure that you have adequate air flow to both heat/cool the space and control the humidity.  Once that is done, then you can pretty easily decide where to position the plant and the lights.  In fact that pretty much is obvious when you get to that point.

Probably the easiest way to build the filter is to attach a flat box like container filled with the carbon to the back of the computer case with the air coming from the computer through a hole roughly matching the  exhaust por tin the case and an exhaust port on the bottom backside o fhte filter with a second fan mounted there to help pull the air through the box and  then out of the filter.



A couple of questions:

What are you going to do for outside panels?

What are you going to do for ventilation especially intake? 

If I remember correctly, the power supply already has an exhaust fan so maybe the easiest thing to do would be to use the power supply fan to suck the air through the case and out of the case through the fan opening so that it keeps as much of the heat from the power supply as possible away from the plants.  If the power supply happens to have a fan that intakes inot the power supply and blows the heated air into the case, it is usually a pretty easy task to reverse the fan mounting so that it blows the other way.  Then mount/duct your carbon filter to that exhaust area and either add a fan that pulls air out of the filter (better efficiency) or alternatively pressurizes the case by sucking outside air into the case (less efficient) or finally is mounted in series with the exhaust port between the power supply exhaust fan (least efficient).

Unless you cover the intake venting in the case covers and drill some kind of vent holes through the sides near the bottom with some kind of baffle system you will have light leakage issues. Louvers do NOT block light leakage worth a crap -- personal experience.  One possibility is to paint the bottom and lower sides flat black, install a false bottom that runs from the back forward to within approximately 1.5" of the front, leaving an opening the entire width of th case approximately1.5" front to rear *(the 1.5" opening is just asguess and needs to be figured so that it is at least much cross-sectional area as the exhaust port)*  then drill or cut enough intake holes in the back and rear portion of the side pieces to at least equal the cross sectional area of the exhaust fan port.  You will need to paint the lower walls flat black at least an inch or two above the false floor to keep the light from reflecting off of the sides back under the false floor and out the intake ports.

Even more effective at blocking the light leakage would be to sue a second false floor that runs from the end where the bottom false floor has its opening so that it forces the light to try to make at least a 90 degree bend from the main chamber into the top baffled area, travel full length oaf the case then make 2 90 degree turns and travel back towards the intake are.  That will almost completely stop the light because light does not go around sharp corners very well, especially if it is a non-reflective area so that the reflection around the corners is very reduced.  However, remember that moving air doesn't like corners either so the cross sectional area of the flow path will need to be increased with each corner the air flow makes.  If you need help figuring the dimensions, let me know and I'll see what I'm can do.


Why buy your CFLs from IKEA instead of one of the home improvement centers like Home Depot or Lowes?  Is it because you aren't in the US or Canada and don't have Home Depots or Lowes where you are? My drafting skills are pretty limited but if you want me too, I'll try to  make a diagram for you to illustrate what I mean.  I can conceptualize much better than I can draw it out.

Regardless of what you do and how you do it I admire your willingness to tackle a difficult job that is worthless to me because one plant the size you will be able to grow inside your little box would NOT even dent my family's usage requirements.  Fortunately WA state has medical MJ provisions that let me pretty much forget about hiding my operation from anyone other than thieves.  You do realize that auto flowering plants tend to be short and bushy and are harder to control the size of than regulars don't you?  Even if the atuo lowryder stays under 14" tall your biggest problem will be keeping its diameter small enough to fit inside your case.  

Good luck and good smoking.


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## DonJones (Nov 27, 2009)

tryer77,

My son just showed me a commercial hydro PC grow box  and here is the URL.  I know you want to use your own, but you can get some ideas how they build them.
www.homegrown-hydroponics.com/hobbyist.html

Remember that they are trying to sell their product so of course their's is the best and only way to do it so watch their video with a critical eye.

Hopefully this will give you some ideas that you might want to incorporate into your project.  I haven't sat down and watched it so I can say much about the practicality of using their methods.

Also, notice that their price is well over $700US.  Personally, I don't think much of their hydro system as it appears in the video because it doesn't appear to have a lid for their DWC reservoir to keep the light out of the solution or to keep the potted plant from tipping over.

Anyway it is something to look at and maybe pickup ideas on what does and does not work or sound reasonable.

Good smoking.

Good smoking


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## Mutt (Nov 27, 2009)

Here's one for ya 
This one is up and running right now for veg. Peep that i was going to give it to couldn't due to his health.

List of items needed.
1 old comp with all the parts. Gut the fans from the power supply and the CPU fan. (free)
1 roll of aluminum tape (2$)
1 tube of high temp epoxy make sure it bonds to metal. ($5)
1 12v DC adapter (7 bucks at radio shack...or find an old one around the house you need one to have 12vdc output  one will run 2 comp fans no problem. )
Surge protector (5 Bucks)
Light Timer (5 bucks wal-mart or lowes)
50w metal halide or High Pressure Sodium flood light from Lowes or home depot (50$)
couple of extention chords ($5) You don't need anything heavy duty looking at a 50w light and a couple of milliwatts for the comp fans is all 

I can walk ya through every thing for under 100 bucks 

and this is what ya end up with


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## tryer77 (Nov 27, 2009)

Well I got one thing to say.

Wow.

Ive been online since 97, and been in and out of all sorts of forums, ranging from Network security, hardware hacking, gun use, fishing, and I dont think I ever found one where I got such a warm welcome.

So, in order of appearence, here goes:

4u2sm0ke: I am kinda short on cash at the moment, so i'll only be able to get my seeds 3rd week of december.  Friends of mine is bringing them in from Spain. So I'll try and pace myself on the build, so I'm not stuck looking at a fully functional, but practically useless grow box for 3 weeks...


Hamster Lewis: I'll just post new posts, then update the first post when I'm done. I'm sure I'll make a lot of changes, and take a lot of advice.

Don jones:
1 - Yeah, since this will be my third grow (the other two were just basically seeds thrown into pots filled with rose compost on the veranda), but my first pseudo-pro grow, I'll leave hydro out of it this time.
2 - Yeah, I kinda noticed the search function (where is it?  ). I use Google for searching these forums, in this case searched for:  +"pc grow box" site:marijuanapassion.com. Only problem is it leaves out some of the more recent posts.
3 - About project design, I totally agree with you. But I am very disorganised, a perpetual procrastinator, and... well, imagine Macgyver with ADD, after 10 coffees and a coupla snorts of cocaine.   But yeah, out of consideration for others who might gleen some useful experience out of this, I will at least try to document all my steps, and write the reasons why I took them.
4 - I am practically done with the lightproofing, ventilation and power supply. (see pics at the end) next step will be to figure out te light fixtures, internal air circulation and possibly a little extra that I came up with a couple of months ago, but havent yet seen in any similar grow boxes.
5 - For the filter/circulation and ventilation, I am using 1 intake fan, two smaller circulation fans, and two exhaust fans. The filter (Blue box in the pics) will be modified so that the exhaust fans will blow into the box at one end, pass through a chamber in the middle filled with activated carbon (got tonnes of the stuff for my aquarium), and the filter box itself has two exhaust fans, to compesate the 90 degree angle and carbon the air has to battle through.

as to your questions:
Outside panles: I'm assuming youre referring to the side panels. I am using the pc's standard panels. Since they are aluminium with only a slightly matte finish, i think the lighting will be nicely diffused, and I wont require mylar. (Actually... My wallet just kicked me in the back of my head and said "Damn right you dont need Mylar!") As for the rest of the interior, I am using a silvery sticky-film I had laying around in my closet for 6 years, but that was just for making the system as air and light tight as possible. Actually, my only real concern is odor, as this will be running in my bedroom, and I dont mind the light, but I'll still try to get it maximum stealth in case anyone else needs any ideas.
For ventilation, I am using 1 8cm pc fan, bottom of front panel. Interior circulation is 2 5cm intel cpu cooler fans, facing diagonally down from the opposite inside top corners. Exhaust is 2 more 8cm fans, at top of back panel. These will be attached to an external carbon filter, which in turn will have two more fans to help the air blast through. (or meekly dribble through... which will probably be the case)
As for the power supply, I was intending to use the PC's original ATX power supply, but then I found one of my old Cisco router power supplies, which throws out 5V at 3.5A, 12V at 3.0A, total max of 50W. It is a lot more compact, and reduces on the noise quite a bit.
As for light leakage, like I said it isnt one of my priorities, but I think I have thought (.....) of a method to reduce light leakage by.... a bunch, I hope... But that will be one of the final fases of the box.
Thanks for your offer of help. It gave me a few new considerations to think about in the design of my filter... I might just get back to you on that.
About the lights, well, here in Portugal (OMG! now the cops know where I live!!!) we either have CFLS from IKEA, or cheap chinese-made CFL's from the dollar store. So.... yeah, I'll go with the brand name in this case. (Slaps forehead as he reads "Made in China" on back of IKEA bulbs)  
About the actual size of the grow... I'm really just testing things out. I thought the best way to control height would be to reduce the recommended pot size of each plant by about 30%, and hope that the restricted root growth reflects on the rest of the plant. I'll seriously be happy if I can get about 20gr out of the first harvest. (And since I only smoke once or twice a week before going to sleep due to chronic headaches, and maybe 2 or 3 times a month recreationally, it should last me a while.)

Thank you Mr Jones!


Mutt: Thats a sweet setup, man!
That is pretty much how I see my baby in a couple of weeks...
Unfortunately, Im a little low on cash at the moment, so I'm basically scorunging round for stuff Ive had lying around for years.

Coupla questions:

Do you have a filter connected to the box?

Is the metal light support from the pc case, or did you add it yourself?

What height from the top of the pots did you put your chicken wire? (looks to be about three inches) Did you have it in from the start, or did you only put it in after the plants reached that height?

I'm assuming your pc case is probably the same width as mine, give or take an inch. What strains did you use?



I hope I got everyone 

So, without further ado, heres what I spent my hour doing on the box:

First I dremmeled out the front intake vent, and two back exhaust vents.(goddamm I hate dremmeling)
Then washed down the pc case, as it was all dusty. 
Then, fixed the 3 fans in place.
Cut my mylar wannabe to size, and closed off the back and the front of the case. In most cases, I put an outer layer and an inner layer. This was for two reasons: 1 - maintain strength of structure as the film is glued to itself through holes and vents and 2 - reduce light and air leakage.

Damn, 60 minutes flies by...

Well thats it for now, guys.

Thanks again for all your support!

Cheers, Tryer.

Almost forgot: MUTT... HunterS FTW!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Mutt (Nov 27, 2009)

Do you have a filter connected to the box?
*No this one is veg. I don't mess with odor control much  I am very reclusive. I run this for seed starts and clone establishment. I use 2 4' T5 flos for secondary veg. 400w MH for flower.*

Is the metal light support from the pc case, or did you add it yourself?
*I took the light bracket from the flood light and used hi-temp metal bonding epoxy to attach it.*

What height from the top of the pots did you put your chicken wire? (looks to be about three inches) Did you have it in from the start, or did you only put it in after the plants reached that height?
*I put it in after the plants got started.

* I'm assuming your pc case is probably the same width as mine, give or take an inch. What strains did you use?
*Yours looks a little bit taller. I can grow anything small. Check out some of my grow journals  I mean small 
I did run a NYCD autoflower full term in this box. No problems.

The problem with CFLs is they get just as hot as the small HID but without the lumens. Why is say go with a MH or HPS 50w...I got a 70w in mine but heat is a lil bit of an issue.

Also Don't get too carried away with your fans...it doesn't need to be a hurricane in there 
*


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## DonJones (Nov 28, 2009)

tryer77,

I like your comment about now the cops know where you're at.  Unfortunately, there are a lot of people out there who are actually that paranoid.  God, I'm glad that I never got like that.  Maybe being in law enforcement helped me by showing me how really stupid many cops are and how busy they really are.  Most of them are really pretty lazy too until you piss them off or make yourself a target.

Back to the topic at hand.  I agree with Mutt that you maybe overdoing the airflow.  Try it with just the 2 fans that you already have and see how that works.  Just leave room to add helper fans later if you need them.  Actually unless your filter is pretty restrictive, you may already be over ventilating the box.  With that much air flow through the box, I doubt you will need the 2 little fans although if I understand your placement right, they will help a lot to keep you from having a hot spot at the top front corners of the case and another stagnant pocket at the bottom rear of the case.

As to the slightly matte finish on the inside of your case, I'm going to make a suggestion to you to experiment for your self because my opinion is strictly in the extreme minority here.  According to the reference source that most everyone here uses, flat white paint is more reflective than gloss white and even more reflective than aluminum foil.  (Which might be true if your are comapring it to the dull side of the foil).

Get you  some aluminum foil and tape a piece of it to part of one of the panels, take it outside in as near to totally dark as you can find and about 25 meters away.  Lean it up against something and then shine a flashlight  at it and decide which is brighter, the mate aluminum or the shiny side of the aluminum foil, or if you have access to a light meter use it to see which one reflects the most.  IF you decide to line the panels with aluminum foil, do NOT worry about getting wrinkles in it because they will help scatter/diffuse the light just like the pebbled finishes you see on many high end reflectors.

On the issue of light leakage, I was thinking more about your stealth issue than plant growth.  If you think about it, out door plants do NOT get total darkness like every indoor grower seems to think is necessary.  If you have even been out on the beach away from human light contamination on a bright full moon lit night, you will know how bright the nights can be outside.

I can remember shutting the headlights off at 70 mph on bright moonlight nights and driving by the moonlight alone, especially when there is snow on the ground.  No I'm not suggesting that or encouraging it.  I've done a lot of things successfully in my life that I wouldn't repeat or suggest someone else try!

I think you have got a pretty good idea of where you need to go.  Some of the things seem like nitpicking or over kill to me, but then I'm a long way from an experienced grower.  I just try to compare the folklore of MJ growers with what I know to be true from other areas of life and I'm sorry some of it just is impossible to be true and a lot of it is actually very true.

Mutt,

Thanks for the idea of using a PC case for a seeding/cloning area.  That is an excellent idea and one that I'm going to try with the old cases we have around here.

A question though, since most clones and young seedlings are actually pretty short, what do you think about using the PC case laid on its side to increase the area available for the seedlings/clones?

Good smoking everyone.


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## tryer77 (Nov 29, 2009)

Hi Guys,

Thanks again for the feedback.

@MUTT - 
Thanks for that info. I'll be going for the Low x AK47. Since I'll be using such a small space, I'll probably stagger the grow cycles, by planting 1, wait a month, then plant the second. Hopefully I'll keep up this cycle and manage to harvest every month.

So you reckon I need to put in chicken mesh? Do you use it for height control or support?

Gotcha on the CFL heat problem. I just found that Portugal Actually does have a grow shop. Yay! They don't sell seeds, though.  I will be visiting them tomorrow afternoon, and see what they have. I'll list what they have here tomorrow night, and ask for your advice, then I'll purchase them on wed. morning. (Not sure about being considered advertising if i post their website. PM if you want to have a look)

About ventilation and my filter: Ok, I'll use only the two extractors, and 1 intake fan. I have an aluminium separator, separating the growth chamber on the bottom side (housing the plants and intake fan). On the top side, I have the two extractors, plus the electronics. This separator has a 7.5" x 5" hole. (Check pic) I will get a metal sieve, and cut out the mesh, make a box about 0.5 inches deep, then epoxy it to fill this hole. Then I'll fill the little mesh box with carbon. The idea is that the airflow will be drawn through this "filter box", hence choosing two extractors. (Was thinking about putting in about a spoon full of vacuum cleaner aromatizer...)


@DonJones - 
Cheers!
Yeah, I hear you. Have an old school buddy who's now a cop in the U.S.. We used to toke before some of our more boring classes. He said to me that MJ intolerance was one of the hardest things he had to face in his job.

In Portugal, MJ is kinda decrimininalized. If youre caught with a gram or two, it's considered for personal use. The most they'll do is drill you for an hour, confiscate your stash, and probably take you down to headquarters for a couple of hours, just to piss you off. If you're caught with 10gr plus, or growing more than 1 plant, then it can go from a fine all the way up to imprisonment (For large scale sales or growing, youre gowing down, no questions)

Great idea on the aluminium foil. I got stacks of it at home, and it is definately shinier than the stuff I've stuck on now. That'll be my next step...  

About the light leakage, I hadnt even thought about light leaking INTO the box  Something I'll keep in mind for if I ever go a bit more pro in the future.
Since this grow box will be in my bedroom, I have no real issue with light leakage. I live in an apartment flat, and my room has three corridors off at 90 deg. angles untill it gets to the main door,. So, I think odor won't be too much of an issue either. I just thought it would be a good challenge to make it as stealthy as possible.

Heh heh... yeah, I did that a couple of times also. My Gran lives towards the interior of Portugal, basically where they have 20km straight roads, and almost 0 traffic after 23:00. Once I blazed up the last of my Malawi Gold stash, set up my camcorder on the dash, flipped it into nighshot mode. Woo hoo. Instantly transformed my car into a "Black Thunder" assault helicopter doing a low altitude fly-by. (Hey... I was stoned.....)



(removed PLL reference)


Well, thats it for now...

I'll try update soon.


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## Locked (Nov 29, 2009)

Be very careful giving out your personal info even in PM's....the beauty of this site is it's anonymity...as we hve recently scene someone can be respectful and clear headed and make "friends" on here one moment and then go off the deep end and try to cause as much havoc as possible the next...(dirtysox/seagull) ...Do you really want to risk that person having your home address? Just watch your back Bro.


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## Mutt (Nov 29, 2009)

> A question though, since most clones and young seedlings are actually pretty short, what do you think about using the PC case laid on its side to increase the area available for the seedlings/clones?


I am not sure what you mean there. As it would have the same available lighted spot where having the bulb above the canopy is where you want it in this type of thing.
I got 2 veg areas and one flower. PC case and couple of other fixtures get em started, second is for size establishment. I try to put in 2 plants every two weeks wich makes it possible to harvest 2 plants every two weeks. 
I guess its all in what you need to have happen and making the area suit it 

A thing about the moonlight...The intensity is a factor as well. It may look to the human eye that its bright, but plants do not "see" that kind of light like we do..As close to pure dark indoors is the best way to go.  Without the use of a light meter, you can't be sure if the light leak is enough to trigger photsynthesis or create light stress.

Oh and we canot exchange personal info on this forum its against the rules


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## tryer77 (Nov 30, 2009)

Hi guys,

Couldnt sleep last night, so I pulled an all nighter.

Lets see now:

1 - Gave everything a second coating of Aluminium foil. (gaddam I hate coating everything twice with aluminium foil)
2 - Gutted my old Xbox, scrounged the metal plating inside, and cut it to size to make two reflectors.
3 - Rivetted two light bulb holders to the support bracket along with the reflectors.
4 - re-checked for air leaks
5 - Installed two bulbs. One is a Lexman E27 2100 Lumen, 20W, 6400k CFL , and the other is a Raydan E27 2130 Lumen 20w, 2700k CFL. I did this to try and have a broader spectrum, as I will be staggering my grows.
6 - Accidentally ripped out the wiring for the timer and 12v adapter, so I had to strip down the support shelf again, and redo the wiring. This time I used a whole bunch of thermal glue to hold everything in place.
7 - Got an old sieve, and made a little box to fit into the support panel. This is where I will be putting the activated charcoal. The idea here was to have a large surface area so as to not restrict airflow through the case.

Dont mean to be flying my own flag, but damn it feels good to look over my grow box in the middle of the floor. That sucker is bright.


So... apologies to anyone who was looking for a step by step guide. I really intended on doing it like that, but I just changed my ideas about a lot of things constantly, and I would have probably spent more time re-doing my posts than actually building my grow box.

My first impressions:

Light: There is light leakage in two spots. first is the rear extractor fans. tested putting a cloth over the filter box, and pow.light went down to just perceptible, although still there. What went wrong? Forgot about insulating the support panel against the side panels, so in some spots light is leaking through. Solution? Grab some 3mm self adhesive foam isulators and line all around the support panel.  Second place where there is light leakage is through the front intake fan. Isnt much, but it;s there. The cool thing is that it's shining throught the case leds (which I left in), so at first glance, it just looks like it's a powered on pc.  Great success!

Sound: This is not a low noise box.the problem I think is because of the size of the pc case, it makes the fans have a much bass-ier sound, so it seems to carry more. Solution: Not a problem to me, but if i had to do it again, I'd put the carbon filter on the outside, thereby reducing turbulence inside the box. 

Smell: Well, none yet  , but I hope to be reporting back on details of smell in about a month.

Also, last night, I ordered my seeds:

3 x Joint Doctor Lowryder 2 Automatic Feminised, plus 3 x Litte Devil - Ministry of Cannabis Feminised.

I'll start off with a Lowryder 2, then a month later, go for a Little devil, and then hopefully I'll be able to harvest every month.... woo hoo

If all goes well, they should be arriving on friday.

Well, I'm almost falling over, I'm so sleepy, so I'll just wrap todays session up by posting some fotos.

Cheers guys, 'n' Gnite!!!

Edit: Almost forgot... It's been running for an hour, and temperature is stable at 20 deg. C. Methinks a little cold.... but anyhoo, I'll check it tomorrow.


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## Locked (Nov 30, 2009)

Looks good....so you are going to eventually hve 2 plants inside? One at 30 days and a seedling? And then keep rotating them perpetual grow style? I hve found that growing autos in shallow pots keeps them very small but very trich coated...here is a pic of what they looked like>>>http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=132005&d=1253667105

Very small but really potent bud...


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## tryer77 (Dec 2, 2009)

Hey Hamster!

Yeah, my plans are to do a first grow using 2 plants side by side, just to get my stocks up. Then I'll be alternating1 by 1, every 30 days.

I've got a couple of questions, hoping someone could help with:

- Temperature: I've been running the box empty, for 48 hours, with a thermometer inside. The maximum temperature it reaches is around 30cm's high, at a constant 22 deg. C. I'm guessing that after putting the carbon in the filter, it could go up a degree or two due to the restricted airflow. Is this temperature ok? because from what I read in other threads, theyre looking at temps that are slightly higher

Nutes + substrate - As i´m on a budget, all I have is a generic grow mix, which comes pre mixed with perlite, volcanic granules and vericulite. Also a standard liquid NPK fertilizer. The bottle says to fetilise once with the nutes, then once without. I think I'll do once with, twice without. You guys see any problems with this?

thanks again!


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## DonJones (Dec 3, 2009)

tryer77,

Yes 68F/20C is a little on the cool side.  I would try either switching one of the extractor fans off or better yet, the intake fan.  I think you are moving the air through a little faster than you need to.  Those 2 CFLs aren't going to make very much heat.  But it is better to have too much so you can shut part of it down than to be having to figure out how to increase it later.

I think you idea of moving the filter to the outside would quiet your system down plus it would give you more room.  Not only that it will be out where you can change the charcoal easier.

When I've done the no lights thing I didn't even have a night mode camcorder, just the moon glow. 

Enjoy man.  I knew you'd get it done.  Any advice I'd try to give you without knowing what brand the NPK is or what the ratios are would be unfsair to you.

However, I would suggest feeding every time only not mixing the solution as strong.  That way you will always have a more uniform nute strength in the medium.  I've had the reps for 2 different lines of nute make that recommendation plus the rep for an additive line.  I'm still debating that issue myself but it is hard to change what has worked in the past.  I know one thing though switching nutes was a no brainer when I tried growing them side by side and saw the huge difference between the growth rate.

Good smoking man.


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## DonJones (Dec 3, 2009)

Mutt,

I keep hearing this thing about plants not seeing light the same way we do, BUT the plant light utilization charts  show virtually ALL of the light that they use as being right in the middle of the visible light spectrum, which called the visible spectrum because that is what we humans see, with high peak in the edge of the red to orange spectrum and another peak in the blue spectrum.

Please explain how plants see the bright moonlight differently from the way we see if they both cover the same spectrum.  Now I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand what seem to be contradictory to the laws of physics.

Also, what is the difference in brightness and intensity?

The third question that is see thrown around without any rhyme or reason is everyone keeps saying to use a light meter instead of our eyes.  I can NOT understand that because light meters are made to measure exactly the visible light spectrum that we humans see.  Please explain how our eyes and the light meters both measure the same thing -- the visible light spectrum -- but a light meter will show one surface or ambient light as being brighter or dimmer that our eyes will when they both are measuring the same thing -- intensity of visible light.  I realize that the light meter will be more accurate in measuring slight differences between light levels, but not significant levels.

Mutt, this is NOT directed at you personally, you just happen to be the one currently repeating some thing to me that does NOT make sense.  I've made the same requests for clarification and have always been ignored so that tells me that at least the other people I asked have no basis for what they are saying except that is what they were told.  And we ALL know that there are many widely accepted myths about growing and using pot that are out right falsehoods being repeated by good honest people who have just been mislead by misinformation.

Also, you seem to be the type of member that will explain things instead of just making statements and then running off when the statement is challenged.  I certainly have learned from your posts all over the forum.  Please teach me here too.

Oh was your comment about personal information in response to something in particular in this thread of just a general observation to a new member?  I've looked and outside of tryer77 saying that he was in Portugal, I can't find anything even remotely personal, unless you are talking about having driven at night without headlights is personal, in which case every experience that we have shared about anything is personal and we need to shut the forum down.

I agree that personally IDENTIFYING information is prohibited, but I can't find anything in this thread that is even remotely prohibited.  But I'm not always very smart so if I missed something please enlighten me.

Good smoking everyone and every member that has posted anything that I've read has taught me something.


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## Locked (Dec 3, 2009)

tryer77 said:
			
		

> Hey Hamster!
> 
> Yeah, my plans are to do a first grow using 2 plants side by side, just to get my stocks up. Then I'll be alternating1 by 1, every 30 days.
> 
> ...



You can get away with very little feeding on autos...I only gve them bloom nutrients when they start flowering which is typically around 3-4 weeks...your temps are a slight bit on the low side so if they go up a tick or two that's a good thing...


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## tryer77 (Dec 6, 2009)

DonJones -  Ok. Turning off the intake fan didn't help much. I'm going to stick in a 40w Incandecent bulb along with the CFL's, and see if that helps bump up the temperature a little.

Sorry about not putting info on the nutes. Here goes: It's an NPK 6-3-6, with trace Fe, Cu, Mn, Mo, and Zn. Actually, just noticed it had copper... Is that harmful to the enduser? I guess i could just not give nutes during the last two weeks.

About Mutts comment about not releasing personal information, on post No. 11, I had put in a paragraph where I had offered to send whoever replied first some PLL's I found laying around, and he was just advising that this was a totally anonymous forum. (Hence the "Removed PLL reference" edit)


Seed status update: 6 lowryder feminised seeds should arrive Thursday, woo hoo! Hopefully their germination time will give me the kick I need to reorganise this DIY thread into soemthing useable, and start a grow journal.


Cheers,

Keep spreading the green!


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## DonJones (Dec 6, 2009)

Mutt,

What I was talking about was laying the case on its side instead  standing it up right so that one of the sides became the bottom and therefore there would be more area to put seeds/clones into since they don't need the height that regular plants do.

Good smoking.


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## tryer77 (Dec 8, 2009)

Woo hoo!

10 feminised Lowryders arrived today.

For germination, I used a paper towel in a little bowl, lots of boiled tap water, microwaved it for 4 minutes to sterilise everything, then I put two seeds in.

Update on the box: I turned off the intake fan, and the temperature has shot up to 26 deg. C., which I'm guessing should be ok.

woo hoo again!


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## DonJones (Dec 9, 2009)

tryer77,

IF you can keep it there you should be okay.  26C =78F which is right on the lower edge of what is generally accepted as the sweet temp for growing.

Good smoking.


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## tryer77 (Dec 11, 2009)

Quick Update: One seed cracked open, and already had a 1/2 inch shoot in about 24 hours... thats the fastes germ. I ve seen. The second seed has cracked also, but the shoot is about 2mm only.

I will plant the first seed in soil today, and the second one tomorrow.


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## DonJones (Dec 11, 2009)

Somewhere I read that the poster recommended scarifying the seed coating  by very lightly scuffing it with about 100 to 120 grit sand paper.  The technique is to line the inside of a small bottle with the sandpaper with the rough side pointing in, put the seed(s) into the bottle and gently shake it for 30 seconds  and then plant it.  I believe the poster was talking about using this technique with older seeds but recently had occasion to speak with a grower who is also a botany professor who volunteered that he does that with all of his seeds.

I haven't tried it, but if the botany professor grower recommends it , I will try it.  The prof said that in his opinion the most important 3 factors were keeping the temperature as close to 78f as practical and not drowning the seeds followed by the scarifying of the seeds.

tryer77, it looks like you have it going.

Good smoking everyone and Merry Christmas!


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## tryer77 (Dec 13, 2009)

Don, I remember trying that method with some old Malawi Gold seeds I had laying around for more than a year. The "sanded" seeds did seem to crack easier.

Heres a quick update, not much to see.


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## Mutt (Dec 13, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> Please explain how plants see the bright moonlight differently from the way we see if they both cover the same spectrum. Now I'm not trying to argue, just trying to understand what seem to be contradictory to the laws of physics.
> .



Sorry haven't been around much..busy time of year for me.
Tryer answered your second question for me on releasing of personal info 

To answer your question...
*Apparent visual magnitudes of known celestial objects
*&#8211;26.73=the Sun
&#8211;12.6=Full moon

or in Lux
0.27 lux-1 lux Full Moon on a clear night
100 lux is a dark overcast day
10,000&#8211;25,000 lux is daylight not receiving full sun
32,000&#8211;130,000 lux is full noon day sun blasting right on ya
Just becuase it "appears" to be bright to us, doesn't mean its usable for photosynthesis. Full spectrum light is pure white. Presence of all wavelengths, Black is the absence of all wavelengths.
Our eyes interpret reflected light..thus why green plants look green. They absorbed the other light. All light is to us is seeing what the object reflected back. So a full moon is missing all the factors that plants need for photosynthesis  Mom nature sure does have her groove goin on.

Visible light don't mean much to plants..its the PAR, lumens are more for the amount, but spectrum is where its all at. Providing the wavelengths that the plants use and as much intensity as possible. Photosynthetically Active Radiation is what matters.
If your going to use a light meter, One that measured the wavelegth of the light provided would be the one to use.
hXXp://www.specmeters.com/Light_Meters/

I don't see much use in buying one, but where i would see the benefit of a light meter is to keep track of life expectancy of the bulb, check for light leaks, and checking the grow bulb wavelengths to maximize growth.


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