# cfls/flursc. lights vs mh, hps and HID



## papabeach1 (Sep 14, 2008)

mh hps and hids, the pros, it works great, prefered HID for veg, HPS for  bloom, but the cons, is high watt, makes much of heats, cost more to pay elec. bill...

cfls and floursc lights.. the pros, it works great, veg to bloom all the way.
I am tryin think of cons,     is there any disadvantages?  I don't see any

yall see any cons for cfls/flurs.?

lets debate please


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## massproducer (Sep 14, 2008)

Are you serious?  You can not find any cons for CFL's as opposed to HID's???  How about the fact that you will need a whole lot of them to even equal the smallest HID.  The only real con that HID's have is that they generate heat, but it is all relative... So yes a 400 watt HPS will generate more heat then a 40 watt cfl, but in order to actually match the lighting out put, you would need around 12, not even 10 because HID's are more efficient.  So in the end to match the 400 watts of HID generated light, your 12 CFL's would end up being a lot hotter then the 400 watt HID.  Another major factor is that even with the CFL's matching the wattage the light being emitted from each lamp is far less as such less intense, with a weaker penetrating power. 

Don't get me wrong Cfl's are wonderful, especially in a smaller enclosed space, the benefit of having a cfl set up would be that your light while being less intense would be spread out more evenly over the canopy.

By the way MH and HPS or both different types of HID's, their is no light simply called HID.  Both HPS or MH can be used throughout the entire process.  Yes, MH is better to used during veg and HPS in flowering, but this is not different then cool and warm cfl's


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 15, 2008)

also to setup all of those cfls there is all of the wire setup and cords running everywhere. they can be used in small spaces but i think that they dont have anything on mh/hps lamps. plus if u put a mh/hps on a light mover they spread light evenly over the canopy and build up less heat. and like massproducer said once you start using so many cfls they energy efficient ability goes out the window one cfl compared to even one 250 watt mh/hps of course u save alot but with the other 10 bulbs u need it actually means more wattage


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## papabeach1 (Sep 15, 2008)

let me get this right...for flowering I can use cfls
let say, 40w. of cfl alone provides only 3000 lumens per sq. ft. 
and HPS 400w. provides 45000 (45k) lumens per sq ft. if I want cfls to match these much of lumens hps provides, I would have to put up with 24 cfl bulbs in a hood? and alltogether watts of it will be 960 watts, ouch?


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## papabeach1 (Sep 15, 2008)

or is this 100 w replacment and actually runs 23 watts and provides 1700 lumens per sq ft. to match that 400w hps lumens I would have to get 45 cfl bulbs,  here the math 23wx45 blubs =1035 watts, thats other ouch too.. that goes for watts per hour on the meter,  thats bad..


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## canibanol cannonball (Sep 15, 2008)

CFL con - trying to figure how many bulbs based on room size and lumins.


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## gettinggray1964 (Sep 15, 2008)

i did my first two grows with cfls. they worked well, but i was always haveing to move lights, and burning plants if you dont stay on top of them.... now i have 400 HPS , much less stress on me ..........


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 15, 2008)

"...mh hps and hids, the pros, it works great,..."

Papa, HID stands for high intensity discharge.  A mh (metal halide) and a HPS (high pressure sodium) are types of HIDs.  

IMO, even if you have the same lumens in CFLs for budding, you are not going to get the same kind of yield as you would with a HPS


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 15, 2008)

The hps spectrum is superior than the cfl,s


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## papabeach1 (Sep 16, 2008)

thanks everybody, I guess I will do flour for veg and use hps for bloom
right now using cfls for vegs....


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 16, 2008)

nice choice  or consider a mh for veg


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## Pierced (Sep 18, 2008)

TokeWithHope said:
			
		

> nice choice  or consider a mh for veg


 
 I agree. From what i have been reading and seeing the different yields


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## papabeach1 (Sep 18, 2008)

Pierced said:
			
		

> I agree. From what i have been reading and seeing the different yields


 
why MH can be a good choice over HID for vegs?


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 18, 2008)

? an MH is a hid. an HID is a (high intensity discharge) light. both MH and HPS are HID lights


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## slowmo77 (Sep 18, 2008)

TokeWithHope said:
			
		

> The hps spectrum is superior than the cfl,s


 
i could be wrong but isn't 2700k the same from a cfl as from a HID? if a bulb is 2700k or whatever thats what it is no matter what type of bulb i would think. 

  i grow with cfls and floros and am pretty happy with my results. heres some info on cfls

23 watt= 1600 lumens
42 watt= 2700 lumens

so 1 23 watt and 1 42 watt per sq ft would be 4300 lumens. thats with in the suggested 3000-5000 lumen. so for every sq ft just double the number of bulb. also all my bulbs are in a light board above my plants i don't put them around the sides.

as for pro's and con's 

pro's, less heat, you can add over time if you low on cash, easy to find, easy to replace, can be placed within an inch of the plants. im sure theres more i can't think of cause im stoned.

con's, can get expensive if growin in a large area, only good for short plants under 3feet imo, i know theres more i can't think of any more right now.. feel free to add to this.


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## KaliKitsune (Sep 19, 2008)

Well, CFLs actually are nowhere near as good as a T5 fluorescent. Each of my four foot bulbs pumps 5,000 lumens at 54 watts - better lumen:watt ratio compared to those CFLs, and comparing almost directly with an HID. Of course, lumens isn't what you look for when you deal with fluorescents, you deal with PAR (Photosynthetically-Active Radiation) at certain color ranges.

I must disagree with the "only good for short plants under 3ft" and I can back that up with light meter readings from various lamp heights (I just had to do this in another forum, for photography, in fact.) T5 fluorescents are very powerful, and depending upon how you hang them (like vertically as opposed to horizontally) you can get great plants growing upwards of six feet or more. 

As soono as I make 15 posts and I can post images, I'll start posting such information in my grow journal here on the site. You don't see much of a drop in light hanging the light horizontally until it's about six feet above the floor, then the light meter needle drops drastically. Between 2 and 5 feet, the light meter reads steady with only a notch or two of fluctuation. 

I'll quit yapping and wait for the ability to post pictures. Oh, wait, that means I have to yap some more, lol!


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## TheEnhancementSmoker (Sep 19, 2008)

papabeach1 said:
			
		

> thanks everybody, I guess I will do flour for veg and use hps for bloom
> right now using cfls for vegs....


 
If you have a HPS, why not use it for veg too?

CFL's are good for tender seedlings/cuttings, but that's all I ever would use them for.


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## KaliKitsune (Sep 19, 2008)

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> If you have a HPS, why not use it for veg too?
> 
> CFL's are good for tender seedlings/cuttings, but that's all I ever would use them for.



Well, HPS bulbs emit more light in the red spectrum, whereas while you veg blue light is more of what's required, so going with the CFLs is probably the best idea. I avoid CFLs and use T5s personally.


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## TheEnhancementSmoker (Sep 19, 2008)

KaliKitsune said:
			
		

> Well, HPS bulbs emit more light in the red spectrum, whereas while you veg blue light is more of what's required, so going with the CFLs is probably the best idea. I avoid CFLs and use T5s personally.


 
The intensity will more than make up for the spectrum difference.


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## canibanol cannonball (Sep 19, 2008)

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> The intensity will more than make up for the spectrum difference.



ever stare at a CFL....ON WEEED MAN!


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## KaliKitsune (Sep 19, 2008)

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> The intensity will more than make up for the spectrum difference.



In all honesty, no, it won't. Nothing can substitute for a proper blend of light spectra. Also, blue is higher-energy light than red by a few orders of magnitude, so by means of pure particle physics, no, more intense red light will not compensate for a lack of blue light.

If the Always420Forum hadn't died, I'd link to the post I made detailing the entire thing about visible spectrum wavelengths and the available energy band. Took me two weeks and much grilling of my horticultural science teacher and physics teacher to get the info I needed.

If in reality red was all you needed, you could pull off a good grow with incandescent bulbs - and we all know that just doesn't happen.


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## papabeach1 (Sep 22, 2008)

Is T5 kinda blue flours. lights and T8 is kinda warm lights or brighter blue lights? 

or is that comes in different size? T8 bigger than T5? sorry if that is dumb question heh... I do see more female ratio with blue flours lights and MH lights.. HPS is good for bloom though... but if use HPS in veg cycle, can produce more of male ratio,  I noticed too..


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## KaliKitsune (Sep 22, 2008)

T5 comes in many diff color ranges , I have a set of 6500K bulbs for growing and 2600K bulbs for blooming.


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## papabeach1 (Sep 23, 2008)

KaliKitsune said:
			
		

> T5 comes in many diff color ranges , I have a set of 6500K bulbs for growing and 2600K bulbs for blooming.


 
so you don't use HPS for blooming? and what wrong with T8?


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## Dozingoffaroundthecorner (Sep 23, 2008)

Somebody needs to do a grow with each at one time with the same feed, watering cycle, substrate, size dimensions of space, and pots then make really good notes about the difference with some precise photos or else everything will just be opinion. I don't think I have ever met anybody who has tried each type.


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## papabeach1 (Sep 26, 2008)

few days ago I went to lowes, and home depot, checking the flours. lights making list what I need... T5 is small... I want something bigger, I had employees to show me the light of T5 and T8,  I finds T8 is really bright blue dual tubes, 16x6 with hood, I ll try get 2 of them and see the results too
it better be good for veg...T5 is really low on lighting IMO


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## Growdude (Sep 26, 2008)

papabeach1 said:
			
		

> few days ago I went to lowes, and home depot, checking the flours. lights making list what I need... T5 is small... I want something bigger, I had employees to show me the light of T5 and T8, I finds T8 is really bright blue dual tubes, 16x6 with hood, I ll try get 2 of them and see the results too
> it better be good for veg...T5 is really low on lighting IMO


 
T5 has the highest output of the floro tubes, what were the lumen outputs of the fixtures you were compairing?


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## Krazeydays (Sep 27, 2008)

I have seeds on order, I have mh 400, would it be idea for me too use t5 bulbs
for rooting to escape heat/light burn?


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## papabeach1 (Sep 27, 2008)

MH is good, you are right, using floursc. T5/T8 would be less hassle cuz of heats..
just that both stores home depot, and lowes only supplies one foot of T5  the rest of T8 is larger  and brighter, I don't know why  maybe my city is too hypocrite of whatever it is..


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## papabeach1 (Oct 1, 2008)

600w HPS lum=90,000
23 w cfl lum=1,500
54 w T5  lum=5,000

how about this.. to match the 600 hps...

pretty much needs 60 cfls of warm/soft type.. to match the same lumen of 600w HPS
which output the watt will be 1,380.00 that is more than wattage than 600w hps
gives!! or be lucky to do this..30 cfls will give off almost to 700 watts and give
only 45,000 avg. of lumen.. maybe 15 cfls 350w total..22,500 of lums.. that is 
too much  yes  lucky 600w HPS is winner  but.. get this..

T5 54w red high output lum=5,000... 20 of T5 makes up 100,000 of lumens!! 
lets do the math
20 tubes times 54watts that is total of 1,080 watts   oh jesus christ!..

maybe better off deal with 10 tubes (50,000 lum) 540w  cheaper..
or 5 tubes (25,000lum) 270w  very reaiable and affordable and impossosible to 
find you under the "FLIR" for growing suspections..

to me...   just for REAL!!... plant only needs about 20 photons to make a 
finished molecule of sugar. (thats during bloom/flower time)

Photosynthetic Active Radiation, (PAR) is sensed by a leaf pigment, thats how it
produces the sugars...  so  lets worry about how much lumens we need to give plant 
a super healthy living being..

A large HID lamp may give out loads of lumens, but if it's too far away from your 
plant most are wasted (remember light intensity diminishes with distance) In addition 
the light a plant can use from these lamps is limited because the plant cannot see 
or use it because it is in the wrong spectrum.

so time has been wasted, enegery has been wasted too.. spendin too much bills is
wasted.. money wasted.. suck huh? 

what is Radiation?  its just a word for lights/photon that gives plants enegery.. 
just like the way suns go around us... 4 seasons,   simple as it is..  being close 
to the sun does cook you like a microwaves does..microwaves do have radiation to
cook your foods hot!!..

Photosynthetic Active Radiation or (PAR) is measure of lights. works same as lumens
so deal with just lumen and cut the story short.. lets brain rest too..
so how much lumens does a plant just needs...
I figured it out... plant itself just need much as 500 lumens for veg!! and
700 lumens for flowering....  for real...yea....   so   rewind it...

one plant, how many cfls? yeah just one...so runnin 23 watts... lucky!! maybe 3 to 4
cfls for 3  plants   not bad!!..  I has tested it.. I see it it's true!!.. for veg!

how about one of dual T5 tubes with no hood? ..that will gives off 10,000lums...
that will be grateful for clones of SOG.. or 15 of mothers  maybe..  not bad..
and runs only 108 watt!!, great for veg!!now that is something power/enegery company 
will not worry about your high watt power suspectious!! even undetectable on
the FLIR radar!! which leos does uses as toys known as "heat radar"

the T5 high output does have red kind of light, nor blue kind of light for veg..
not bad!!  

keep in your mind..cool day light of cfls does give more lumens than warm/soft cfls
do.. thats good and great for veg, but for bloom/ flowers you will need to run
little  more of soft cfls, or  nor use T5 and couples of soft cfls to work together..

let say if we do that.. let say.. 3 soft cfls on every corner of grow room and dualT5 
above of your plants.. so its 12 soft cfls x 23 watts is 276 watts.. hmm and add up to 
108 watts for dual T5 altogher would be 384 watts,   to me... I'm giving the plants
what their requirements from the lights..  but tempture is important to be mainatanced..
as 70 to 80 somewhere..depends on the condtions.. and it is for bloom time... all that.
its easy to deal with it.. for veg,  just only use blue type of dual T5 high output..
really simple.. if you want extra lights, day cool light (blue cfls) will work though..
great to get them to veg... 

In my option, cfls and T5 works sweet!!! or any high output flours. lights.
and less watts on veg, plus only almost 385 watts works the same as 600 watt hps
but 600 wastes more on power, enegery, and money..   

thats your call..

by the way.. HIGH PRESSURE SODIUM gives heats,lot of heats, well.. 
tempture control systems does that.. like...heater, cermanic heater. be creative.

no offense... alright? just to help...  less busts for leos and let senates
see its wasted to have our taxes on the FLIR for cops to play with.. its really
expesnive than what we spent on grow lamps and setups all that, for real!..


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