# Any ideas y?



## Newbud (Mar 29, 2009)

Hello all.
I know they dont look bad but 2 days ago my clones were proud as punch, real upright and green, now for some reason they looking bit annoyed.
In coco, less than quater strenght nutes and i watering by weight how i usually do. They all rooted well in cubes and  were fine when put in pots for days. I can already see nice healthy roots if i look at the drainage holes. As you can see they gone a little pale but still green so any ideas?
Only thing i can think is did they get a little cold at night or sumet.
Can someone help please? Didn't have problems before and real new to the game so dunno what my next move.
Cheers guys


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## UKgirl420 (Mar 29, 2009)

*maybe just a little to wet for em idk :confused2:*


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## occg.hydro (Mar 29, 2009)

what's the ppm and pH at? room temp?


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## Newbud (Mar 29, 2009)

ph 5.8, room temps 80 lights on varies 70-75 off, UK man whats ppm carn't remember we use different scale i think.
As a note i forgot to close bedroom window other night?


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## blancolighter (Mar 30, 2009)

In that big of a container and that small of a plant, I'm not sure how accurately you could water it by weight, so I'm bettin its overwatered. 

Also, I don't know about coco, but if you are growing in it as if its soil (if that is indeed what you are doing), maybe you should research raising your PH to soil growing levels, once again though, don't know much about it...


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## Rockster (Mar 30, 2009)

It's just as Blancolighter says in that your pot is too big and a small plant can't properly dry out a pot like that so an overwatering condition occurs and this most likely is the reason your girls don't look too happy.

They will probably be ok,growing out of the problem really but if it were me I'd gently remove plants and repot in a smaller container.

Americans growers tend to use a lot of perlite for just this reason as rather than pot up in stages (as everybody in the plant nursery industry does)they plant with loads of perlite in large pots and the perlite negates the bad practice of putting a small plant in a large pot as perlite adds lots of aeration.

So a little overwatered and coupled with a cold night they might well look a bit hang dog but as you say you are hefting the pots to estimate water requirements so I'd not fully saturate your soil atm,not till the girls root system has filled out a bit more.


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## city (Mar 30, 2009)

i got it.. you suck!! just give up now. dont kill anymore plants. lordy lordy.
nah. i have no clue.i dont soil grow. its either too much or too little water. the girl looks nice and green though..
i will keep watching to find out cause i wanna see how your grow goes


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## 4u2sm0ke (Mar 30, 2009)

My clones look like that when the temps drop..coco dries nicely..and I think you will be fine with that container..I would only water enough for the cube to get wet for the first week or so..then up the watering..but when I put plants near my intake  which brings in freash air from outside..it cools the soil in containers and my plants do just as yours have and even at times shivel real bad..they slow down in growing but do pull threw..and IMO..your PH should be 6.5-7.0  in coco..Thats how i roll:lama:   good luck  and keep us posted:bolt::bong:


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## Newbud (Mar 30, 2009)

Cheers everyone, 4u i'd have to side with you on this one regarding temps, as for pot size, 4 inch pot to big for a clone?????????
Doubt it it not that much bigger than the cube lol and last time they went from propergator to an 11L wilma pot with no probs, cheers anyway guys


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## Newbud (Mar 30, 2009)

> The Hemp Goddess
> 
> For hydro, your pH should be between 5.5 and 5.8. You should always adjust your pH after you have added your nutes.



Might be wrong guys but coco is a hydroponic growing medium is it not?
And from word go i have always been told to keep my ph between 5.5 and 6.2 and theres even a chart on here i trying to find that someone posted that shows perfect point being 5.8.
Your confusing me guys


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## blancolighter (Mar 30, 2009)

Doesn't matter if it CAN be a hydroponic medium, you are using it as you would dirt. Same thing goes with peatmoss, technically another soilless medium, but it is used as dirt most of the time, therefore its ph should be in the 6.5 range.

Here is an easier way to break it down I guess. Do you have a hydro system hooked up to your plant? If you said no, well then you're not growing hydro. Second question, are you growing in a pot much like you would with dirt? If yes, then treat it as if you're growing in dirt...


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## Newbud (Mar 30, 2009)

Well when i,m growing established plants in there full sized pots i use multiple layers of mixed and not mixed hydroton and feed everyday cos i need to till i get plenty run off.
Gota say your loosing me now guys cos i getting conflicting advice from what i've been given up till now and that includes from this site


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## blancolighter (Mar 30, 2009)

hmmm you shoulda included that hydroton info earlier, that changes things, makes your grow kinda a grey area. People were recommending only for the info you gave them, straight coco...

So let me get this straight, you do a layer of coco then a layer of hydroton and keep alternating like that? (not sayin anythings wrong with that, jsut tryin to get the full picture here)


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## Newbud (Mar 30, 2009)

Good couple inch of hydroton on bottom then like 2/3 hydroton to 1/3 coco, then 1/3 hydroton to 2/3coco then coco.
Gets saturated everyday till runs off to stop chemical build up.
Little more simple in the 4 inch pots just hydroton bottom inch and coco on top.
Gave 4 inchers good watering when first potted em and they loved it.
Only give em small watering every maybe 3 days as they dont seem to be using a lot at mo. I know they not over watered, you probably know yourself its easy to tell by the weight and the coco's only loose so can easily push it aside or push my finger into it. Dont do that much though in fear of damaging roots


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## GMT (Mar 30, 2009)

If your running with a coco and hydroton type mix then you ARE growing hydroponically and should keep the ph of your solution within the reccomended range and NOT treat the plants as if they are in a soil based mix.

There is no difference between a plant in a hydro system and a plant that is hand watered assuming they are both in a hydro medium such as coco ect. ect.

A few things.
Adding hydroton/perlite or any other drainage ammendment will not change anything or make your grow a grey area.
All they do is help promote drainage and make it easier for the plant to have access to clean fresh air in the root zone.

Coco and especially if ammended with any of the above is virtually impossable to over water or very hard at least.

Newbud your plants are in coco/hydroton much the same as mine are they need to be fed at least once a day minimum, i normally go for 2 feeds one @ lights on and another a few hours before lights off.

If your temps are a bit cold ( temps of the medium is more important imo than air temps) then you may have a slight Mg deficiency, sometimes cold wet mediums can prevent a plant from absorbing enough Mg.

your ph is okay i suspect from what you've posted you may have a combination of N and Mg deficiencys in the 4" pots.
N from feeding only every 3 days and cold temps in the root zone may be hindering the uptake of Mg.

Feed them every day @ at the moment they are small enough so 1 feed will suffice but as the plants get larger up that to several feeds per-day.
Keep your root zone warmer than the cut-off point for Mg absorbtion.
Pop in to the chemists and pick up some epsom salts to have on hand in case it is an Mg issue but i'm leaning more towards underfeeding being the root of the problem.

Hope you get it sorted bro.


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## Newbud (Mar 30, 2009)

Makes more sense, left window open at night and they got cold and problem started from there. 
Temp not normally a prob and not had it before.
To anyone reading this this guy grows same way i do so sorry guys but i'm thinkin he's right.
Thank you very much though to all that took time to post though.


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## GMT (Mar 30, 2009)

blancolighter said:
			
		

> Doesn't matter if it CAN be a hydroponic medium, you are using it as you would dirt. Same thing goes with peatmoss, technically another soilless medium, but it is used as dirt most of the time, therefore its ph should be in the 6.5 range.
> 
> Here is an easier way to break it down I guess. Do you have a hydro system hooked up to your plant? If you said no, well then you're not growing hydro. Second question, are you growing in a pot much like you would with dirt? If yes, then treat it as if you're growing in dirt...


 
No disrespect but everything in the above quote is incorrect.

just because newbuds plants are not in a hydro system by no way means that they should be treated as soil based plants.
Take a look at the ph range chart newbud provided and take a few minutes to digest it.

You will notice the ph ranges for hydro mediums and the lock out points for the various mobile and immobile elements.
By uping ph to the 6.5 range in coco the plants will lock up.

More than one of ye guys are giving advise that is not accurate it happens but perhaps an easy way to prevent this happening is to only give advice when you are familiar with and have hands on experience of the particular method.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Mar 31, 2009)

GMT said:
			
		

> No disrespect but everything in the above quote is incorrect.
> 
> just because newbuds plants are not in a hydro system by no way means that they should be treated as soil based plants.
> Take a look at the ph range chart newbud provided and take a few minutes to digest it.
> ...


 


IMO..if people dont post what they feel is happening  accurate or inaccurate..and we post on info given..so based on the info given  we make the judment..but  when a felloow member comes here for help and waits for the person to come on that has all the knowlage as you do..well they wont get anywhere will they..Newbud had a question  and we ALL  try and help..we dont put people down when they try and help..and I have experience..take care and be safe


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## DutchMasterPuff (Mar 31, 2009)

Thread on Growing in Coco
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12689

I grow in coco and keep my ph around 6.3-6.5 and i don't have any problems. When i was doing my own research on what ph to use for coco i always found people using anything from 5.8 - 6.5. Some said 5.8 if treated like hydro and watering everyday and around 6.5 if treating like soil and watering 2-3 days and some said it doesn't matter if treated like hydro and to still use a lower ph range like you would for hydro. This is my first time using coco so i think im just going to have to find out on my own which ph range i like better by switching it up for the next crop because i always found mixed reviews online.


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## blancolighter (Mar 31, 2009)

GMT said:
			
		

> No disrespect but everything in the above quote is incorrect.
> 
> just because newbuds plants are not in a hydro system by no way means that they should be treated as soil based plants.
> Take a look at the ph range chart newbud provided and take a few minutes to digest it.
> ...


 
Ouch man, and I was about to thank your first post. Saying "no disrespect," then telling a grower who has been around a bit to go digest a ph chart is pretty insulting. As you might have noticed, I hadn't posted after I got the hydrotron information because I wasn't sure quite what to do, I didn't give wrong info. I'm glad you could bring some definate answers to this, but your saying we gave incorrect info is also incorrect. When using coco in pots, especially if it is coco pith, I stand by the info given earlier. Just because Newbud forgot to include the hydroton info untill a bit later doesn't make everyones previous posts wrong, they simply dont apply to the scenario anymore. There are 3 different grades of coco, maybe in the future we should think to ask what coco grade is being used, as the properties change in each one.


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## Newbud (Mar 31, 2009)

Well it appears he was right so far.
Treated em as i would in big pots i.e feed till get decent run off, and made damn sure i closed window last night lol, and they now stood up and proud.
Even look to be getting a little greener already so thats good.
I knew they would be ok just wanted to know what had caused it, thanks to everyone who posted and took time out to help.


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## GMT (Mar 31, 2009)

DutchMasterPuff said:
			
		

> Thread on Growing in Coco
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12689
> 
> I grow in coco and keep my ph around 6.3-6.5 and i don't have any problems. When i was doing my own research on what ph to use for coco i always found people using anything from 5.8 - 6.5. Some said 5.8 if treated like hydro and watering everyday and around 6.5 if treating like soil and watering 2-3 days and some said it doesn't matter if treated like hydro and to still use a lower ph range like you would for hydro. This is my first time using coco so i think im just going to have to find out on my own which ph range i like better by switching it up for the next crop because i always found mixed reviews online.


 
I go for the lower range of the ph scale myself and water daily reason being coco will dry out quickly.
Any nutes not used are flushed out of the coco thus lowering the chances of a build up of salts and keeps the ph swing in check.

I dont see the point of treating a coco based plant like a soil based plant, if your going to do this you may as well just pot up in a good soil mix and save the money spent on expensive nutes for seeds or whatever.

Blanco:

If you feel offended i can not help that but for your own good you need to grow a thicker skin.
Long story short you were telling the guy that his grow using coco and hydroton which are primaraly used as hydro mediums was not being grown hydroponically because he was'nt using a hydro system??
Most dictionarys define the term as both growing a plant in a liquid nute solution or growing the plant in a soil-less medium i dont need to explain this further.

Reason i asked you to look at the ph chart provided was because if you had of you would have seen the ph range of a hydroponic grow has to be lower than a soil grow as most hydro mediums have not the same buffering to ph as soil does.
You would have noticed than many components of the nutrient solution are not absorbed in a hydro grow at the higher ph ranges.

Adding hydroton to his coco will change no factors of his grow save making the coco a little easier to drain and providing a little o2 for the roots .

If you want to stand behind the info you provided thats fine by me i am entitled to my opinion much as you are but the dictionary and the ph nutrient availabillity charts do not lie.

Even i would trust them more than my own opinions.


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