# cfl grow. too much light?



## mrhud88 (Oct 22, 2013)

im going to start an indoor grow in a wooden box I made. dimensions are 2'x2'x4'. got the inside painted flat white, outside black. im an electrician so wiring is not a problem. I currently have planned 13 total lights to provide my lighting and the wattages are as followed: 1-64w, 4u, cool white cfl ; 2-26w, spiral, warm whites; 2-24" tubes, cool white; and lastly 8-13w, spiral, warm whites. I have a small computer fan(3") for ventilation. my question is this: too much light? or am I good? Ive done things with 115w vho tubes before and got great results and this is my first time using cfls. im intending to try 2 plants max and all lights will be arranged in the top of the grow box and plants will be lowered as needed. any feedback will be great.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 22, 2013)

You need to know the lumens the bulbs put out.  However, I can tell that it is not too much light.  They may produce too much heat for your space however.  

Lighting needs are figured as lumens per sq ft.  For vegging you want a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft and flowering a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft.  Many of us run more.  So, figure your lumens and see what you have.  

Have you purchased your lights yet?  I would sure rather see you use T5 HO tubes rather than CFLs.  Lumen for lumen, CFLs pretty much cost the most to operate, run the hottest, and produce the least.  I doubt that a 3" computer fan is going to be capable of keeping your space cool enough if you have adequate light.


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## trillions of atoms (Oct 22, 2013)

Go w/ t5s


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## Locked (Oct 22, 2013)

HO T5's for the win... Jmo


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## mrhud88 (Oct 23, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> You need to know the lumens the bulbs put out. However, I can tell that it is not too much light. They may produce too much heat for your space however.
> 
> Lighting needs are figured as lumens per sq ft. For vegging you want a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft and flowering a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft. Many of us run more. So, figure your lumens and see what you have.
> 
> Have you purchased your lights yet? I would sure rather see you use T5 HO tubes rather than CFLs. Lumen for lumen, CFLs pretty much cost the most to operate, run the hottest, and produce the least. I doubt that a 3" computer fan is going to be capable of keeping your space cool enough if you have adequate light.


 
im broke so im using what i have on hand. ive not purchased anything. im also knowing that the fan might not be "good enough" so i have a few other options on hand its just what i thought of first. im not sure what the lumen output is either?!?!? all of the lights are just something i had on hand and thought "hey, **** it, why not give it a try?" im not growing for profit just for personal consumption as the "war on drugs" has made my life a little bit harder than it has to be. im not all that great with math and i know that since my lights have been used before the initial lumen output has diminished so either way i cant have an accurate number. i do know that the 24" fluoro's have not been used and neither have the 13w cfl's. but the 26w and the 64w have been used but not that much. im following the indoor guide section in  the george cervantes book "the mj indoor outdoor grow bible" it has not failed me yet. but, as i stated before, im not sure the lumen output. i know now that i have enough light. thanks hemp goddess.


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## mrhud88 (Oct 23, 2013)

ah, forgot to mention, i will also try to post pics of what im doing as i have them avail. prob. will be 2-3 months b4 i post anything though. fyi


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 24, 2013)

Well keep in mind that you are going to get out of this what you put into it.  Growing quality bud does takes time, knowledge, effort, and (unfortunately)money.  And it takes about 4 months to go from seed to harvest.  So, I urge you to do whatever you can to set your space up right.  It is really  heartbreaking to spend months and months on something to only get an ounce or so out of it.


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## mrhud88 (Oct 28, 2013)

my lighting did prove to be a problem. the temp got up to 95+ a few inches below the lights. I wired everything up and set my lights up in the top of the box, built my shelf and the brackets to hold the shelf(spaced every 6 inches).
I placed my thermometer on a string and tacked it about three inches below the 64w light/main bulb(as I call it) and plugged all the lights into my power strip as well as my(shitty, near ineffective) fan and watched as the temp climbed to beyond what the thermometer was able to read! surprise? no, not really. I figured that the amount of light paired with the use of three quarter inch plywood was going to cause heat issues. I just had not figured on how much of an issue it was going to be! I drilled holes in the top around the lights and the top of the sides of the box and that helped but not by much. next I dug up an old microwave and removed the fan from it and cut a hole for it and wired it up then mounted it.......its loud as hell.....and did nothing. so I thought, wonder if I reversed the direction of the fans if that might would do anything. yep! the 3" computer fan was the intake and the 6" microwave fan was the exhaust.  I reversed them, as the 3" was not pulling enough cool air to make a difference and the microwave fan was put under strain for trying to evacuate with a strong vacuum that was created inside the grow area, now, the 6 inch microwave fan is the intake and the 3" computer fan is the exhaust and the temp is at a steady 74-78. in utilizing a method of "growing down" that is my lights remain in place mounted in the top of my grow box and a shelving system is being used much like the racks in an oven. as the plants grow, I move the shelf down to accommodate for height. I have had many very successful indoor crops but as ive said this will be my first grow in an enclosed area of such a size. as such, what do you think my ideal number of plants? I have planned for two but I have read of people doing three and even four! I know the limited amount of space will cause crowding and make the plants compete for light thus creating a situation to where the yield will decrease. I have only planned for 2 that will be grown in 2-14" pots, which is what Jorge Cervantes recommends in his book, so my pots fill up the entire grow space, so, to try more will result in having to use smaller pots 8-10" which will result in root cramping. I know all the possibilities and problems that can occur which is why I have not really invested in any good seeds(as I will be growing feminized white widow if this setup proves to be successful) nor put much into it in ways of buying all new materials. im intending to grow to a height of about 3'  during a 2-3 month period, I know it can be done with other setups ive used and im hoping that my results with this will be about the same, and that's it before I induce flowering. I know that I wont be getting much in the way of yield but that's okay as this is just a test run to see what results I get and also I will be growing for quality not quantity. any thoughts?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 31, 2013)

First of all, I would put the larger fan back as an exhaust fan.  Most of us do not use intake fans at all.  You do want negative pressure in your space.  This will help keep smells contained when you get to that point.  You might want to check out thrift stores and Habitat for Humanity Restore type places for a better fan.  I have seen T5 fluorescents there too.  I am keeping a 32 x 32" space with 300W HPS cool enough with a bathroom type exhaust fan that I got for about $7.  Also keep in mind that ventilation is for more than heat control.  Plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on for proper photosynthesis.

When talking about your pot sizes....how many gallons are you talking about?  That tells us more than the diameter of the pots.  Generally speaking, you want a gallon of soil for every foot of height.

I would say that either 2 or 4 plants would work, depending on the training you give them and how long you veg them.  A 2 plant scrog would work well in that space, but I wouldn't recommend running a scrog unless you have clones or fem seeds.  It is just too hard to remove the male(s).   If you don't veg for long, you could also run 4 (or more) in a sog type setup.  Here you basically run grow single cola plants that you flower when they are still small.  You will want to start them on 12/12 before they get too tall as they will stretch when put into flowering.   I doubt that you are going to be able to veg 2-3 months before flowering.  I am thinking that when they hit 18" or so you will probably have to flip them if you are not scrogging or lsting. 

There is really no reason that you could not get things dialed in AND grow good genetics.  It takes so long to take a plant from seed to harvest that I would like to see you with something dank at the end, especially as you are looking for quality.  

So as far as using unknown seeds, I am going to try and encourage you not to.  I know times are tough and a lot of us don't have extra money, but do try and get the money together to run some decent known genetics (anything you got lying around that you could sell on CL?).  IMO you are starting at a disadvantage when using unknown genetics.  First of all, a lot of bagseed is a result of selfing and are prone to hermying.  Seeded bud is not the best quality bud.  If not selfed, you really do not know where the contributing pollen came from.  It could have been ditch weed.  So ultimately you only know 1/2 of the genetics.

Check out the scrog I did in a space about the size of yours.  Keep your eyes open all the time for "grow equipment" or things you can make into grow equipment.  I found 2 150W security lights at a storage facility sale one time and made some great cooltube lights with those, a couple of bake-a-rounds, and a few misc electrical and plumbing things.  I spent about $25 on them.  They are what I used in my 2 x 2 x 4 scrog which yielded about 5.5 ounces.  If you can manage a HPS setup before flowering, you will be aptly rewarded with about twice the yield.


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## mrhud88 (Nov 4, 2013)

well, I changed my mind on my fans that I was using. I had some small 8" adjustable speed box fans that are el cheapo from family dollar. I ended up using two for my box to try and combat the heat problem. I put one in the bottom of the door and one at the top of my box on the side; the bottom door fan is my intake and the top the exhaust. now I am keeping a regular temp of around 76 to 80 with no problem. I have had pretty good luck with bag seed before when grown outside and im not usually getting anything that has had a lot of seed in it. mostly the seeds have been immature and greenish white due to early clipping by the producer but the bud has been above average but not anything that was on par with some of the hybrid genetics ive grown before. I am now getting to the point that yeah, some quality genetics would be great, especially if they are fem seeds, but it will be a while before I can afford to do that. I am usually ALWAYS on the look out for possible grow op materials but living where I do way out in the woods people tend to take things to a scrap yard, directly to the trash dump, reuse or sell them so the picking is rather slim. I have enough materials now that I could build another box but im probably going to be moving in 2 months or so which is why ive not started to grow anything yet nor spent any money. I am planning to get some white widow fems at some point in the next few months however. its my favorite but im looking into head cheese as well as it was nominated as one of the top 12(?) most potent of 2012. my next questions are simple enough: is there any downside to using miracle grow moisture control max potting soil? and does anyone know of a reliable and cheap vendor of white widow feminized seeds? im talking the cheapest that there is and not a place that is going to try and rip me off or send me something that is not what I paid for. I used to order from mark emry direct a few years back but that has been shut down since his arrest.


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## Locked (Nov 4, 2013)

Nirvana has cheap beans... Kind of hit or miss on quality though.


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## trillions of atoms (Nov 4, 2013)

you can't get by with doing it cheap and get anything worthwhile.

 You will have to spend some money in order to grow good dank.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 5, 2013)

There are all kinds of downsides to using MG Moisture Control Max potting soil and no upsides.  The first is the moisture control.  You don't want anything with any kind of moisture holding crystals.  Marijuana needs to go through wet and dry cycles.  The next is that it contains fertilizers.  And those fertilizers are not the best for marijuana.  Your soil mixture is very important.  Virtually all commercial potting soils need to be amended.  I would also recommend a fertilizer formulated for mj, such as General Hydroponics, Fox Farm, Advanced Nutrients, etc.

Check out Nirvana or if you only want a couple of seeds, the Single Seed Center.

I'm with TOA--you have to spend some  money in order to grow good dank.  But, no amount of money or good equipment can overcome a bad growing environment.  You should do some reading so that you know the basic requirements of the plant--lighting, ventilation, soil mixture, nutrients, the biology of the plant, etc.  The more you know and are able to implement that knowledge, the better your grow will be.


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## mrhud88 (Nov 6, 2013)

soil. what is good soil that I can get from lowes or home depot?


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## Locked (Nov 6, 2013)

mrhud88 said:
			
		

> soil. what is good soil that I can get from lowes or home depot?




I buy Miracle Grow Seed Starter Mix from Agent Orange (Home Depot),  and add perlite and sweet lime to it. Been using this mix for years with no problems.


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## mrhud88 (Nov 6, 2013)

any problems with using mg veg fertilizer?


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## Locked (Nov 6, 2013)

mrhud88 said:
			
		

> any problems with using mg veg fertilizer?



I only use General Hydroponics 3  part system.  I don't like MG nutrients. You could probably get away with it but you will get better results using nutrients that are made for Cannabis. Jmo


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 6, 2013)

I use an Organic potting soil from Home Depot called Kellogg's Patio Plus.  It has some organic goodies in it already that you normally have to add like perlite and lime.  It is $5 for1.5 cu ft.  It isn't available at all Home Depots.

I agree on the fetrtilize.  It is well worth it to get nutrients formulated for mj.  It is a high energy plant and has special needs.  I also use General Hydroponics.


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## lovbnstoned (Nov 6, 2013)

THG  i use Lambert soil from depot that seems to b doing well.
  also i have a question,, i have 4 105 watt CFLs,,:farm: is that too much if i put them in the corner, on the side of the plat.  the grow space is 4ft by 3ft by 6 1/4 ft:bong2:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 7, 2013)

lovbnstoned said:
			
		

> THG  i use Lambert soil from depot that seems to b doing well.
> also i have a question,, i have 4 105 watt CFLs,,:farm: is that too much if i put them in the corner, on the side of the plat.  the grow space is 4ft by 3ft by 6 1/4 ft:bong2:



That must be what they have on the other side of the country.  Glad it is working for you lovn.

I have a floweering room that is 3 x 6.5.  I run either a 1000W or 2 600W in that space and it isn't too much light.  However I do think it is about all the plants can utilize without adding CO2 to the grow space.  So unless you are over 7500 lumens per sq ft, I don't think it is too much.


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## Growdude (Nov 7, 2013)

lovbnstoned said:
			
		

> THG  i use Lambert soil from depot that seems to b doing well.
> also i have a question,, i have 4 105 watt CFLs,,:farm: is that too much if i put them in the corner, on the side of the plat.  the grow space is 4ft by 3ft by 6 1/4 ft:bong2:


 
Assuming these are actual 105 watt cfl's your about 7400 lumens shy of being suitable for vegg, 31,400 shy for ideal flowering.


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## lovbnstoned (Nov 7, 2013)

i'm planning on having 105 watt 2700K each every corner of my 3by4 by 6 
1/2 ft tall grow area:watchplant:beside a 12 bulb T5 setup


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