# DWC, how to effectively bubble?



## zem (Jan 14, 2010)

i have this tray it's 2.5'x3' i'm doing a SOG in it so i have 5 outlets bubbling around but still i couldnt get all this surface area covered with bubbles, i also have a pump constantly recirculating, 
my question is: do the bubbles have to be misting each and every netpot directly? i'm finding too much trouble acheiving that. i've always heard how a pump airs even better than a bubbler but never could figure how a small submersible pump could get the roots suspended in air above the water misted? i currently kept the water level touching the netpots gona wait for more root growth before i lower water level because when i tried lowering water, waited some time then lifted netpots, some were getting dry and plants werent liking it. please give me some input on these little details like how you place airstones how much of surface area i need covered with bubbles and when you lower the water level...  thanks


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## entropy82 (Jan 14, 2010)

i've never worried about getting bubbles on the plants roots.  whats important is to aerate the water, allowing the plant to take up dissolved oxygen (DO).  Err more on the high side than less.  but also note that if you don't take care, this can cause certain nutes to fall out of solution and support the growth of unwanted organisms as well.  that's why i change my rez once a week, keep it clean, and don't allow light to get to the water.  Higher DO levels allow the plant to grow faster all said and done. 

Don't get aeroponics and dwc mixed.  i had the same problem with the roots/water level that you have the first time i tried dwc. i started using primeagra (hydroton-like but better quality...not a rep here) which when wet  wicks water (say that 5 times fast) the whole way up through the root zone. 

cheers.


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## DonJones (Jan 14, 2010)

ZEM,

I'm no expert as you know but I've always heard that you could even have the solution nearly touching the lid w/o bubbles so long as you had highly oxygenated solution reaching the roots.  So far as I know, if the roots are wet with highly oxygenated solution, they can be submerged, so If you can keep the solution oxygenated, don't worry about the bubbles splashing on the pots, just keep the solution level high enough to keep the pots dampened all the time.

Great smoking.


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## entropy82 (Jan 14, 2010)

i concur. theres more than one way to skin a cat. just have to find what works for you.


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## zem (Jan 14, 2010)

well i always thought so but i see a BIG difference between roots in a bubbler and roots in ebb and flow, it's my 4th run dwc already, before that i used to do ebb&flow and i still have actual pots with stems and roots in them since my last run in them and tehyr really fillin up these pots. i'm givin dwc one more shot doing this seriously, bubblers are bubbling that water like crazy and i'm hoping for the best, so far it seems ok, plants are getting green but i always managed to make em green but its my yield that went down due to smaller root mass, i am trying to keep roots suspended in the air s much as i can, now i leveled water just below netpots gona check on them in couple of hours, thanks for the input cheers


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## entropy82 (Jan 14, 2010)

are you keeping the roots of your dwc in the air as much as possible?  if so i would think that would have quite a big negative affect on growth.  the roots are going to have a hard time getting nutes from the air.

Also, is the size of your pots for dwc to small and limiting growth?  when i look at how to increase yields i always examine what would be the limiting factor and how can i can improve.  

what do you use in your netpots?


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## zem (Jan 15, 2010)

netpots are tiny and i mean  like 2" diameter filled with good small sized growrocks.


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## entropy82 (Jan 15, 2010)

imho, i would just fill the water to near the top of the pots.  i would also put them in a much bigger pot.  i hate repotting bc of the stress it does to the plant. if you repot with more grow rock consider repotting underwater. basically pour in your new grow rocks in the larger pot with the 2" while its underwater. this will cut down on the damage done to the root hairs from the impact of the new rocks.  the root hair a so essential to oxygen absorption and nute uptake and are all too often overlooked.


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## RUDEBWOY (Jan 15, 2010)

I use DWC and i actually use a submersable pond water pump that has an air intake as well on it .. i have the pump shooting straight up outta my solution and hitting the bottom of my lid on my resivour ...the air intake line i have attached to the top side of my lid which in turn attaches to the water out line on the pump ... The main rootball is fully in the solution ... I use 4" green plastic pots that i just drilled extra holes in the bottom of so that the roots are just coming out the bottom of the pots instead of the net pots where the roots come out from all angles ...I like this better because the roots reach the resivour faster ... Hope this helps out a little ... You can check my current grow out here :hxxp://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49793    

change the xx to tt ...

EZ&SAFE


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## zem (Jan 15, 2010)

:rofl: dude you can post direct links within MP, thts a very nice grow you got ther  thanks for the input 





			
				RUDEBWOY said:
			
		

> I use DWC and i actually use a submersable pond water pump that has an air intake as well on it .. i have the pump shooting straight up outta my solution and hitting the bottom of my lid on my resivour ...the air intake line i have attached to the top side of my lid which in turn attaches to the water out line on the pump ... The main rootball is fully in the solution ... I use 4" green plastic pots that i just drilled extra holes in the bottom of so that the roots are just coming out the bottom of the pots instead of the net pots where the roots come out from all angles ...I like this better because the roots reach the resivour faster ... Hope this helps out a little ... You can check my current grow out here :hxxp://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=49793
> 
> change the xx to tt ...
> 
> EZ&SAFE


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## loolagigi (Jan 15, 2010)

let me say, i understand adequate, "<---spelling...lol" bubbles are good. i have also read that too many can be bad as water can spash out of bucket...now i have caught myself using the little 2$ for 2 per pack blue airstones, and had to change them for not working anymore at times.  never phased plants. dwc has to be the most forgiving hydro setup, due to the fact the roots are "airated" 24/7 in most cases. growing soil, and then watching your dwc grow....youll never go back. its like the HULK!  night and day diff. i know im just rambling now, so ill shut up.  by the way,,,,the way i do dwc is with no water pumps, air pumps only. i also use 5 gallon net pots. easy to remove from buckets with large plant contained.  loola


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## zem (Jan 24, 2010)

ok so i'm planning on purchasing many airpumps and i'm thinking of getting the lower pressure single outlet ones in big number, i can get them for very cheap and i was thinking that my trays are only 6-8" deep so i dont want high pressure but i need to cover surface area and i thought that if i get them in big number then one breaking wouldnt be such a big problem and it is prectical to have each with its airstone however i will have to be hanging like 6-8 pumps per tray and i have 3 trays i need to bubble that is like 20 airpupms :holysheep: i can get one for 5$ maybe i can bargain for a price for a bulk or even find the importer and claim to be a shop and get them at wholesale price  these things suck only like 1.5-2watts each  lol it sounds abit crazy to me the number of pumps what do you guys think?


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## Growdude (Jan 24, 2010)

zem said:
			
		

> however i will have to be hanging like 6-8 pumps per tray and i have 3 trays i need to bubble that is like 20 airpupms :holysheep:


 
There is no way you need that many air pumps.

Here is the one I use for 8 waterfarm units.

hxxp://www.hydrofarm.com/pb_detail.php?itemid=575


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## ArtVandolay (Jan 24, 2010)

I'm probably 6 months - 1 year from trying dwc but I'm doing a lot of reading and asking of questions.  I use one of these in my boat bait well and it works great.  It's a little steep at $54, though you can get them cheaper if you look around.  What do you guys and girls think?

hXXp://keepalive.net/portable.htm


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## DonJones (Jan 24, 2010)

ZEM,

I probably don't understand what you're trying to do, but based on my understanding, here is my best advice.  The emphasis is not intended to do anything except draw attention to the information.

You haven't answered yet about how close to the lid you keep your level, so I'm going to repeat this -- *In DWC the only reason for an air stone is to increase the dissolved oxygen in the solution, NOT to moisten the roots.  Keep the roots as deep in the solution as you can, because that is where the nutrients and dissolved oxygen is --NOT in the air.*

You will probably never make it work like an aeroponics system with just bubbles.  If you want to keep the post out of the water, even after the roots grow down into the solution, then you need to use a pressure pump and either misters or sprinklers to spray the solution on the pots.

I hope this helps because you have something so simple we are all missing it going on because DWC is a no brainer.  We tend to complicate it some times when we are trying to answer questions.  It is very simple and basic, keep the solution as oxygenated as possible ( a circulating pump that does NOT introduce air through a venturi or spray the solution through the air in a fine mist or let it splash off of something will NOT oxygenate the solution) and keep the roots wet all the time by submerging the pots/root balls as deep as practical into the solution.

That is DWC, anything else we do is a hybrid system and either we use it as DWC and supplement it with aero or drip or we use it as the other half of the hybrid and supplement that with DWC.

I hope this helps because I know you are getting frustrated.  Another thought is, if ebb and flow or flood and drain works for you, then maybe you should just forget DWC, or at least scale the DWC back to an experimental level (a single container with one or two plants) until you catch the hang of it and in the meantime grow your main crop in ebb and flow.  That way you won't be as frustrated with low yield/quality but will still be learning the DWC way too.  You may never get the results you want with DWC, even though others do.  If not there is NOTHING wrong with ebb & flow.

Great smoking.


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## zem (Jan 24, 2010)

Don, it is true i am not getting the same results i used to in ebb&flow and this is my 4th run DWC now! i think that submerging the roots completely was one factor that contributed to lowering that, dissolved oxygen is not enough, the roots need to get some air, that is what i read and what most people who do dwc say, that i need to keep water below my netpots, and to do that without bubbles directly misting my roots is causing them to dry so that is why i concluded that i need airstones all over the surface. it is true i am getting frustrated  after many superb grows i used to harvest, now i harvest small grows that dont last me for the next harvest and i'm buying weed, thats not why i invested in growing, so i seriously need to get my yield back up. there is nothing wrong in ebb&flow except if you were doing sog like me, emptying cleaning and refilling all these buckets of growrock is equivalent to the labor put in trimming your harvest, too much work thats the ONLY reason i decided to switch, i still have this huge pile of growrocks being unused i would really hate to have to go back to it now after ive tried and learned and invested so much effort in dwc, i am overkilling with bubbles i dont care, i mean whats the bubbler price or cost compared to buying weed? 5$ and 2watts power thats nothing! i wana do it so bad, actually i am liking my current grow it seems this will be ok better than the past dwc's i ran not sure if it could be compared to my old ebb&flow grows i really hope so! thanks alot again Don  cheers


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## monkeybusiness (Jan 24, 2010)

ArtVandolay said:
			
		

> I'm probably 6 months - 1 year from trying dwc but I'm doing a lot of reading and asking of questions.  I use one of these in my boat bait well and it works great.  It's a little steep at $54, though you can get them cheaper if you look around.  What do you guys and girls think?
> 
> hXXp://keepalive.net/portable.htm


 Wow Art, that thing looks powerful. If you're thinking of putting that in a DWC 5 gallon bucket, my guess is it would be too violent of a motion for the roots. Just a guess though..


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## bizzy323 (Jan 25, 2010)

i can imagine the problem you having. I had the same problem before with dwc i until i add a drip system to it so i would have my drip system going until my roots were long enough in the water than i turn the drip system off and have my bubbler going for rest of grow.


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## dragracer (Jan 25, 2010)

I don't have a lot of experience, being on my first DWC, but when I started mine the water level was halfway up the net pot until roots were showing. Ever since then about an inch below the net pot, I run a large air pump and stone and have had pretty good results...Good luck!


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## zem (Jan 27, 2010)

hey guys! i got this today  electromagnetic air compressor 30L/min 20watt the shop claimed that i can even bubble 12 airstones with it easily. i paid 40$ for it, do you think its good price?


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## DonJones (Jan 27, 2010)

If it runs 12 air stones, that isn't a bad price.  However, Petco has a 4 outlet aquarium air pump rated for a 200 gallon fish tank for under $25US on-line.  The common advice on sizing air pumps for bubbling DWC here on the forum, has been to get one rated for a fish tank twice as large as the total reservoir(s) hooked to it. Using that standard, the Petco pump should handle 100 gallons of reservoirs(s).

The 2 Petco stores here in Spokane both use the Petco brand pump on their fish tanks and the frequently have several thousand dollars worth of exotic fish in them.  If the house brand wasn't just as reliable as the name brands, you would think they would use the best air pumps they could find to safeguard their investment in the fish they stock.

Great smoking.


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## Smokey Mcpotster (Jan 27, 2010)

zem- Is that a sunleaves pump? I have two of those. One in my flower room, one in veg. Mine are rated at 600 gal per hour. I'm going to look into getting a gang valve. The splitter that comes with it, (in your pic) doesn't seem to  distribute the air evenly. It Might just be me tho. I have 4 6" airstones hooked up to each one. I'm switching over to the 5 or 7" round ones that pc duck showed in his dwc thread. The 6" stones seem to plug up too easy. I also have a couple bigger aquarium pumps. The sunleaves seems to put out enough to do 2 buckets. Compared to 1 bucket for the larger aquarium ones. I did end up with some root rot from lack of oxygen getting to the roots just under the net pot (3.75"). I have switched to 6" pots.  I will see if I need to add a stone near the top of the water on my second grow .

( I chalk the rot up to being a rookie, I may have kept the water too low, or my plants are too big. The root balls are as round as the bucket and over a foot tall, taking up most of the bucket. That makes it tough to get the bubbles to the surface.)


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## Smokey Mcpotster (Jan 27, 2010)

oh my pumper were $40 each as well.


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## PUFF MONKEY (Jan 27, 2010)

zem said:
			
		

> hey guys! i got this today  electromagnetic air compressor 30L/min 20watt the shop claimed that i can even bubble 12 airstones with it easily. i paid 40$ for it, do you think its good price?


i use the same pump for aerating my 70 gal res...it's a 600gph pump it'll run several airstones at once. btw, i paid 40 for mine too.


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## zem (Jan 27, 2010)

mine is rated 360gal/hr, when you say you paid 40$ did that include shipping? i dont have free shipping i can see the same online for 25$ but would add up to more than 40 with shipping, and then add the customs  just curious if i did at least an ok buy, i could probably have it returned if i wanted but i dont think its worth it mostly cuz i dont have any cheaper alternative


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## Smokey Mcpotster (Jan 27, 2010)

One I ordered online. That was $44. inc shipping. The other was on sale for 35$ at hydro store.(10$ off). 

Going by your original 30L per min.=1800L an hour. 1800L = 1902 quarts divide by 4= 475.5 gal per hr. If I did the math right. 
Either way I think you did okay. Should be built better than a standard aquarium pump. Plus its def. stronger.


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## zem (Jan 27, 2010)

yes yes forgive me  i was wrong on themaths its 30L/min so aprox. 500GPH, ya its ok im keepin it


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## zem (Feb 17, 2010)

hey guys this pump is working great! i'm having trouble with its noise. the manual says i should not put it in a closed box to allow it to cool so it's humming freely and i would like to dampen it, any ideas?


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## pcduck (Feb 18, 2010)

I have rubber bungees holding my pump up off the ground.


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## Dvlzhaze (Sep 12, 2013)

This might be of interest, its my way of aerating my DWC. I call it SRDWC! Maybe it'll bring some new ideas to the table. Check out my video on Super Recirculating Deep Water Culture hXXp://youtu.be/2nd-p8uyxeA


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## sunakard2000 (Sep 15, 2013)

when i ran my DWC i found that it was better, once the root mass has reached at least the halfway point of your bucket to keep at least the top 1/3 of the mass out of the water so long as your  air stones are not all under your root mass and you still get sufficient bubbles breaking at the of the water to mist the upper root mass then your golden, making sure the top roots dont dry out and still get misted with breaking bubbles should solved your problem, but untill the roots are large enough to do this i kept the water up to the bottom, maybe a 1/2 inch up the net pot, i had a pretty good harvest comming in just shy of 4 oz, think it was like 3.7oz


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## trillions of atoms (Sep 16, 2013)

I weigh the airlines down and PLOP my air.  I've run all dif air stones and w a four outlet pump it splashes awesome and arreates awesome for my use- BUT


What we need to get at is what yer deal is.


If its a MULTI Dwc I would recommend doing a RDWC in buckets.   If you want SOG use the container u have as a Rez and get a tray to flood.

A mist is all you need for the net post but you need to use a cloner (best) and transplant into your dwc.


I can say alot on this if u need help but I g2g.

Goodnight


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