# Anyone using UVB lights?



## kasgrow (Jan 14, 2008)

Who is using uvb lights in their gardens.



I have been looking into getting a couple of reptisun 10 uvb lights to add to my flower room I am already using 1000 watt metal halide for the extra uvb light but I want to add more for max potency.


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## Flower Power (Jan 16, 2008)

kasgrow said:
			
		

> Who is using uvb lights in their gardens.
> 
> 
> 
> I have been looking into getting a couple of reptisun 10 uvb lights to add to my flower room I am already using 1000 watt metal halide for the extra uvb light but I want to add more for max potency.



hit the wrong button....

i'm using two reptisun 10.0. i've not noticed a difference yet. both plants under the uvb were also first timers in dwc.

i'll know more after the next flower round.


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## kasgrow (Jan 16, 2008)

Thanks for replying flower power.
 I am going to get a couple of reptisuns and give them a try. My bud under metal halide is more potent than when I grow it under hps.
The hps bud is slightly larger but the mh bud is more potent. I am thinking about running mh, hps, and two reptisun 10 lights together. Right now I am using the same hood for my mh and hps so for now it is one or the other. I am going to add the uvb lights to the mh for now. Now is the best time to run the mh without the glass since the temps are in the 50's outside right now.


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## th3bigbad (Jan 22, 2008)

i use added uvb  lights along with my 1000w HPS. IMHO 2x10watters isnt near enough. i use 2x100watt long tube floros (tanning bed bulbs). i have to start them slow but by the end the uv lights can stay on 6 hours a day and not sun burn the plants at all.


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## kasgrow (Jan 22, 2008)

th3bigbad said:
			
		

> i use added uvb lights along with my 1000w HPS. IMHO 2x10watters isnt near enough. i use 2x100watt long tube floros (tanning bed bulbs). i have to start them slow but by the end the uv lights can stay on 6 hours a day and not sun burn the plants at all.


 
Thanks for replying. Have you noticed a difference in potency yet? I just changed my set up.


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## kasgrow (Jan 22, 2008)

Here is the new light set up I am trying in flower. 
It is a 600 watt hps in a daystar reflector, no glass.
I added 4 day glow 10.0 uvb lights.
The uvb lights are on 9 hours a day right now. I will be adjusting height and position as needed .




Here are the bulbs I am using. 15$ a piece at pet store.


Here is the set up with uvb off.


with lights on


another.

I just took out my 1000watt metal halide and put in this setup. I am hopeing for the larger buds from the hps with the potency of the metal halide.


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## the widowmaker (Jan 22, 2008)

I'm still bemused by this topic.  Once something is concrete and i can see some kinda of proof to its use.

For me at the moment though I think you would have to have a pretty strong uvb bulb in order to make a difference just solely because by having the uvb lower your blocking out flowering light by having a larger bulb with a higher output you could have the light at a decent distance.

I got some white russian which should be around 23%thc even if it comes out at 20% thats still strong enough, i'd prefer to have more weed thats 20% than a decrease in yield and 21 or 21.5% thc if it could raise it that much.

I'm not hating, don't get me wrong, I just think the jurys out on this one for the time being.


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## th3bigbad (Jan 22, 2008)

kasgrow said:
			
		

> Here is the new light set up I am trying in flower.
> It is a 600 watt hps in a daystar reflector, no glass.
> I added 4 day glow 10.0 uvb lights.
> The uvb lights are on 9 hours a day right now. I will be adjusting height and position as needed .
> ...



sweet setup bud! i dont know how hot those cfl lights run,,, but would like to. do they run any hotter or cooler than regular cfls? 
 the lights i use are 100 watt 4' long tube floros that have remote ballasts, so i get mine right down into the top of the canopy. as long as the bulbs dont get within about 3" of the leaves they dont burn from heat. i have to start mine off kinda slow or they get sun burt ( all leathery and overly shiney). but when i get it right it did make a big difference in the amount of tris on the side of the plants where the uv lights are closer. 
 i havent played with it enough with the same strain to tell how much is enough or too much, or if it is really worth the cost of buying the stuff to do it if you dont already have it. i had a tanning bed that wasnt being used so it didnt cost me anything. so for me atleast it cant hurt to try. 
 the way i have them set up running along the outside of my plants the uv bulbs dont get in the way of my hps. i have to agree with widow on thisw point,, im not going to give up yield untill i know for sure that it is doing what it seems to be.


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## POTUS (Jan 22, 2008)

kasgrow said:
			
		

> Who is using uvb lights in their gardens.
> 
> I have been looking into getting a couple of reptisun 10 uvb lights to add to my flower room I am already using 1000 watt metal halide for the extra uvb light but I want to add more for max potency.


 
Do you have a link to the UV bulbs you're using?  Something that would show the specs or a manufacturer and bulb number?


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## kasgrow (Jan 22, 2008)

th3bigbad said:
			
		

> sweet setup bud! i dont know how hot those cfl lights run,,, but would like to. do they run any hotter or cooler than regular cfls?
> the lights i use are 100 watt 4' long tube floros that have remote ballasts, so i get mine right down into the top of the canopy. as long as the bulbs dont get within about 3" of the leaves they dont burn from heat. i have to start mine off kinda slow or they get sun burt ( all leathery and overly shiney). but when i get it right it did make a big difference in the amount of tris on the side of the plants where the uv lights are closer.
> i havent played with it enough with the same strain to tell how much is enough or too much, or if it is really worth the cost of buying the stuff to do it if you dont already have it. i had a tanning bed that wasnt being used so it didnt cost me anything. so for me atleast it cant hurt to try.
> the way i have them set up running along the outside of my plants the uv bulbs dont get in the way of my hps. i have to agree with widow on thisw point,, im not going to give up yield untill i know for sure that it is doing what it seems to be.


 
Thanks, the cfl's are 26 watt and don't put off anymore heat than a regular cfl. You do have to wear eye protection when they are on. They may not seem too bright but they are. I am hoping they will work even if it is on just the plants they are close to. Then I will spend the extra money for an hid uv source like a mercury vapor. I figured I wouldn't know for sure until I tried it.


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## kasgrow (Jan 22, 2008)

the widowmaker said:
			
		

> I'm still bemused by this topic. Once something is concrete and i can see some kinda of proof to its use.
> 
> For me at the moment though I think you would have to have a pretty strong uvb bulb in order to make a difference just solely because by having the uvb lower your blocking out flowering light by having a larger bulb with a higher output you could have the light at a decent distance.
> 
> ...


It's cool,
The jury is definately out on it and that is why I am trying it. I am not recomending it but only letting people know what I am trying. Other people on other sites are having good results but I need to see for myself. 
Yeild isn't as important to me as potency since I am a med user. I still manage to grow at least twice as much as I use. I would rather grow my medicine to it's max potency. I already see more potency out of my mh. I am trying to max out my plants in every way. I made the fixtures myself so that they would not block out much light. I don't see any shadows on my plants. I have 600 watts hps over a 3x3 table with a couple of dirt plants on the side so plenty of light.


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## kasgrow (Jan 22, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> Do you have a link to the UV bulbs you're using? Something that would show the specs or a manufacturer and bulb number?


 
http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php

These are the bulbs I used. I picked them based on what I have gathered from lots of forums


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## POTUS (Jan 23, 2008)

kasgrow said:
			
		

> http://www.exo-terra.com/en/products/compact_fluorescent_bulbs.php
> 
> These are the bulbs I used. I picked them based on what I have gathered from lots of forums


 
The reason I asked is because you're using a bulb that is designed to produce heat over and above the heat produced by the bulb normally.

Is there some reason you need more heat?

If not, then the UV may be hurting your plants. UV does *nothing* for plants. Not a single thing. In some of the UV spectrum, it does harm to the plants. I don't know if your bulb is harming your plants, but I do know that it does absolutely nothing to help them with the UV light.

Unless you WANT more heat than necessary, I'd suggest that you NOT use those bulbs.

What are the reasons given in those other forums for using them?


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## Hick (Jan 23, 2008)

> Environmental conditions influence cannabinoid biosynthesis by modifying enzymatic systems and the resultant potency of Cannabis. High altitude environments are often more arid and exposed to more intense sunlight than lower environments. Recent studies by Mobarak et al. (1978) of Cannabis grown in Afghanistan at 1,300 meters (4,350 feet) elevation show that significantly more propyl cannabinoids are formed than the respective pentyl homo-logs. Other strains from this area of Asia have also exhibited the presence of propyl cannabinoids, but it cannot be discounted that altitude might influence which path of cannabinoid biosynthesis is favored. Aridity favors resin production and total cannabinoid production; however, it is unknown whether arid conditions promote THC production specifically.* It is suspected that increased ultraviolet radiation might affect cannabinoid production directly. Ultra-violet light participates in the biosynthesis of THC acids from CBD acids, the conversion of CBC acids to CCY acids, and the conversion of CBD acids to CBS acids. However, it is unknown whether increased ultraviolet light might shift cannabinoid synthesis from pentyl to propyl pathways or influence the production of THC acid or CBC acid instead of CBD acid.*
> 
> The ratio of THC to CBD has been used in chemotype determination by Small and others. The genetically determined inability of certain strains to convert CBD acid to THC acid makes them a member of a fiber chemotype, but if a strain has the genetically determined ability to convert CBD acid to THC acid then it is considered a drug strain. It is also interesting to note that Turner and Hadley (1973) discovered an African strain with a very high THC level and no CBD although there are fair amounts of CBC acid present in the strain. Turner* states that he has seen several strains totally devoid of CBD, but he has never seen a strain totally devoid of THC. Also, many early authors confused CBC with CBD in analyzed samples because of the proximity of their peaks on gas liquid chromatograph (GLC) results. If the biosynthetic pathway needs alteration to include an enzymatically controlled system involving the direct conversion of hydroxy-CBG acid to THC acid through allylic rearrangement of hydroxy-CBG acid and cyclization of the rearranged intermediate to THC acid, as Turner and Hadley (1973) suggest, then CBD acid would be bypassed in the cycle and its absence explained. Another possibility is that, since CBC acid is formed from the same symmetric intermediate that is allylically rearranged before forming CBD acid, CBC acid may be the accumulated intermediate, the reaction may be reversed, and through the symmetric intermediate and the usual allylic rearrangement CBD acid would be formed but directly converted to THC acid by a similar enzyme system to that which reversed the formation of CBC acid. If this happened fast enough no CBD acid would be detected. It is more likely, however, that CBDA in drug strains is converted directly to THCA as soon as it is formed and no CBD builds up. Also Turner, Hemphill, and Mahlberg (1978) found that CBC acid was contained in the tissues of Cannabis but not in the resin secreted by the glandular trichomes. In any event, these possible deviations from the accepted biosynthetic pathway provide food for thought when trying to decipher the mysteries of Cannabis strains and varieties of psychoactive effect.
> 
> Returning to the more orthodox version of the cannabinoid biosynthesis,* the role of ultraviolet light should be reemphasized. It seems apparent that ultraviolet light, normally supplied in abundance by sunlight, takes part in the conversion of CBD acid to THC acids. Therefore, the lack *Carlton Thrner 1979: personal communication. of ultraviolet light in indoor growing situations could account for the limited psychoactivity of Cannabis grown under artificial lights.* Light energy has been collected and utilized by the plant in a long series of reactions resulting in the formation of THC acids. Farther along the pathway begins the formation of degradation products not metabolically produced by the living plant. These cannabinoid acids are formed through the progressive degradation of THC acids to CBN acid (cannabinolic acid) and other cannabinoid acids. The degradation is accomplished primarily by heat and light and is not enzymatically controlled by the plant. CBN is also suspected of synergistic modification of the psychoactivity of the primary cannabinoids, THCs. The cannabinoid balance between CBC, CBD, THC, and CBN is determined by genetics and maturation. THC production is an ongoing process as long as the glandular trichome remains active. Variations in the level of THC in the same trichome as it matures are the result of THC acid being broken down to CBN acid while CBD acid is being converted to THC acid. If the rate of THC biosynthesis exceeds the rate of THC breakdown, the THC level in the trichome rises; if the breakdown rate is faster than the rate of biosynthesis, the THC level drops. Clear or slightly amber transparent resin is a sign that the glandular trichome is still active. As soon as resin secretion begins to slow, the resins will usually polymerize and harden. During the late floral stages the resin tends to darken to a transparent amber color. If it begins to deteriorate, it first turns translucent and then opaque brown or white. Near-freezing temperatures during maturation will often result in opaque white resins. During active secretion, THC acids are constantly being formed from CBD acid and breaking down into CBN acid.


MJ Botany chap. 4


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## umbra (Jan 23, 2008)

although this is good info, it doesn't discern from uva or uvb or to what amounts are avaiable to a plant from the sun and how much is necessary for indoor growth. There is still real research that is lacking when it comes to fully understanding how MJ grows and all  the factors involved. This is because it is illegal in the USA. So it is void of the research grants that other botany has received. Food for thought though.


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## kasgrow (Jan 23, 2008)

umbra said:
			
		

> although this is good info, it doesn't discern from uva or uvb or to what amounts are avaiable to a plant from the sun and how much is necessary for indoor growth. There is still real research that is lacking when it comes to fully understanding how MJ grows and all the factors involved. This is because it is illegal in the USA. So it is void of the research grants that other botany has received. Food for thought though.


 
The bulbs I am using don't put off any more heat than a normal cfl. I could use the heat right now but they don't help. I leave the glass off of my reflector to create more heat at this time of year. The whole reason for using the uvb lights is to increase resin and thc production and thus more potency. Uvb is also supposed to help in flavor. This is an experiment for me and I check my plants a few times a day. After 3 days I have seen no adverse affects on the plants. The real proof will be in the smoke and I will post results, good, bad, or none. I have read about uvb light being good for cannabis in a few grow books as well. 

Here is a link to more information in video form from pot tv.  

http://youtube.com/results?search_query=uvb+marijuana


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## POTUS (Jan 23, 2008)

I find this extremely interesting. The research I've done on UV light for plants has been in a general sense of *all* plants. The papers I've read so far have emphasised that UV in most spectrum's "does nothing in regards to plant growth", and some spectrum's actually cause harm to the plants.

Research that points directly to Marijuana growth and the use of UV is new to me.

I'll have to do some reading on this.


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## Hick (Jan 23, 2008)

I just recalled Clarke talking about it in his book. I had to search to find the info'. and it's likely outdated. I'd be interested in any further interesting or updated research POTUS.. 
  Sometime ago, I read about some research being conducted high in the Alps, I think it was, in relation to higher concentration of uv and altitude.
  here's another article that googled up..
Cannibis Culture


> Environmental Influence
> 
> It takes high quality genetics to produce high quality marijuana, but genetics is only half of the equation. The genetic structure (genotype) only plays 50% of the role in determining the appearance and quality (phenotype) of a given plant. The other half is determined by environmental conditions such as light, temperature, humidity and soil nutrition. All these factors play a role in both the physical and chemical nature of marijuana's trichomes.
> 
> ...


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## kasgrow (Jan 24, 2008)

Here are some more links to check out along with a quote from each about uvb light and potency. 

http://www.weedfarmer.com/cannabis/thc_guide.php

     (c)Cannabinoid pathway: Anywhere in this pathway UVB does a better job than UVA in energizing a phytochemical reaction that will produce more fully realized THC because "all cannabinolic compounds show an absorption maximum between 270 and 280 nm in the ultraviolet region."  


I found this one interesting because it is from an ask ed page.
I found an article in an old marijuana growers guide by mel frank and ed rosenthal saying the opposite published 1978 so I guess ed has changed his mind.
http://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/2696.html

How can you get more UVB light to your plants? Certainly it's true that MH lamps emit more UVB light than HPS lamps. Still the amount that MH lamps emit is small. In fact, many manufacturers use UVB shielding glass to filter out most of the UVB that's produced. The UVB light the plant receives from an MH lamp does increase the plant's potency slightly at the cost of yield, but there are better ways to introduce UVB light into the grow room. They include reptile lights, which emit about 10% UVB, and tanning lamps.


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## Growdude (Jan 24, 2008)

Very interesting thread, great links guys.


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## th3bigbad (Jan 24, 2008)

http://www.esa.int/esaCP/ESA3ENUM5JC_FeatureWeek_3.html


Thanks to ESA, KNMI offers a UV forecasting Service


Global clear-sky UV index

Global clear-sky UV index 26 March 2001. Image:KNMI/ESA.

GOME Fast Delivery Ozone Profiles

GOME ozone profiles retrieved within 3 hours after observations over one orbit on 23 March 2001. Global information on the chemical composition and related physical characteristics of the atmosphere and their trends, are required to improve the understanding of the behaviour of the atmosphere. The atmospheric ozone distribution shows strong fluctuations related to wind fields. New and consistent data sets describing the dynamics and the ozone distribution, like ozone profiles derived from GOME measurements in near real time, lead to a better description of the state of the atmosphere and can be used to improve numerical weather prediction. Image:KNMI/ESA.

Wind fields

Impact of ozone measurements on the wind field for 200 hPa as calculated by an assimilation model(http://www.knmi.nl/onderzk/atmosam/soda/)

High UV Radiation over South America due to the Ozone Hole

Fast GOME ozone retrieval makes it possible to forecast global ozone distribution. High quality ozone forecasting serves as a basis for reliable ultraviolet (UV) sunlight forecasts, an important issue for human health protection. The global UV index map shows clearly high values over South America that is caused by the ozone hole extension to this (populated) area. (courtesy KNMI)

Ozone Hole Extension 12 October

Ozone hole extension on 12 October 2000(courtesy KNMI)



Release date: 2 July 2002  

there are better more detailed maps out there, that was just what i could find ATM.


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## shuggy4105 (Jan 25, 2008)

i`ve just introduced a UV lamp to my seedlings, more as an experiment to see on a practical level anything interesting.
in order to actually do a viable experiment i`d have to set up another veg chamber and mimic the conditions for the two-the only difference being the UV lamp.
some great info there dudes, i`m very intrigued as to the "trade-off" of yeild to potency-i`d take potency any day over yeild.
i think i may just do that, i`ll keep the info in my grow journal man-i`ll do the setting up over the next couple of days...


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## Hick (Jan 25, 2008)

I think POTUS was right on the money, with the "some UV is harmfull". 
It appears to me, that it is the plant attempts to defend against those harmfull rays, that may benefit the potency, not any light beneficial to the "plant".


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## shuggy4105 (Jan 25, 2008)

surely as MJ developed naturally with normal photosynthesis from the sun-and it`s UV rays over thousands of years, taking that spectrum of light away sounds counter-productive,  clearly we can all grow without additional UV and "if it ain`t broke don`t fix it" springs to mind.
 i`m gonna go ahead as planned man, it seems there are no "deffinative" facts that this would be a bad move.
as "some" changes have been observed in the limited research which has been done,and not particularly bad either,it`s got me interested, and has to be worth looking into "IMO".
:holysheep:  :holysheep:


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## POTUS (Jan 25, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> I think POTUS was right on the money, with the "some UV is harmful".
> It appears to me, that it is the plant attempts to defend against those harmful rays, that may benefit the potency, not any light beneficial to the "plant".


 
I see what you're saying, Hick. The UV harms the plant and the plant produces more thc as a byproduct of healing itself.

Interesting point of view. I'll be looking into it. Thanks man!


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## th3bigbad (Jan 25, 2008)

from the few years of reading ive done on the subect it seems to me that in simplest terms uv rays can cook the seeds of our pretty lil ladies if they arent protected. the way the plant defends itself is to turn some of the acids the plant naturally produces into tricomes to block the suns uv rays. ( like a sweet sticky sunblock) the more uv rays the more sunblock needed. thats why some of the best bud comes from around the equator or high altitude. 
 i agree that there just isnt enough research out there to be conclusive. from what ive read and how my plants reacted to the new lights i can say that there is something to it. 1 guy on the net isnt going to make the way growers as a whole think, but if a few more are willing to give it ago im more than happy to share notes, pics, and whatever might come in handy. ive only done a handful of grows with added uv. i prolly wont be much help, but i did take a ton of notes n junk. if nothing else  we can contrast and compair.


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## kasgrow (Jan 25, 2008)

th3bigbad said:
			
		

> from the few years of reading ive done on the subect it seems to me that in simplest terms uv rays can cook the seeds of our pretty lil ladies if they arent protected. the way the plant defends itself is to turn some of the acids the plant naturally produces into tricomes to block the suns uv rays. ( like a sweet sticky sunblock) the more uv rays the more sunblock needed. thats why some of the best bud comes from around the equator or high altitude.
> i agree that there just isnt enough research out there to be conclusive. from what ive read and how my plants reacted to the new lights i can say that there is something to it. 1 guy on the net isnt going to make the way growers as a whole think, but if a few more are willing to give it ago im more than happy to share notes, pics, and whatever might come in handy. ive only done a handful of grows with added uv. i prolly wont be much help, but i did take a ton of notes n junk. if nothing else we can contrast and compair.


 
Thanks, I agree. I am looking forward to seeing the results of many growers. I have my four lights within inches of the plants now. I haven't seen any problems yet. I will keep a photo record of the plants and their reactions to the lights. I am interested to see how far the light affects plants if at all. I think the key to the uvb light is that it is in the right
wavelengths. 
 If the lights work to increase the thc and resin production could we create super plants by breeding plants with higher and higher uvb influences. Ten or twenty years from now is there going to be a super super strain?


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## godtea (Jan 26, 2008)

what is a reptile light?


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## POTUS (Jan 26, 2008)

godtea said:
			
		

> what is a reptile light?


 
It's a little light the reptiles use so they don't fall down on their way to the bathroom at night.


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## Disco94 (Jan 26, 2008)

While everyone is on experimenting.  Check this out...

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=200101&posted=1#post200101


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## kasgrow (Feb 12, 2008)

Here are a couple of pics of a hashberry. It is under 600watt hps and 4 26 watt reptiglo 10.0 bulbs. 21 days under setup.


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