# Snuggles is getting his first DUI



## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

And I don't even drink. I just got home, I went out to see a movie...it sucked LOL. Anyways on my way back I get a call asking for a ride (I'm a sober type 2.5 years). So I pick him up we drive home, on the way is a check point, no problem in fact the officer even commented on how drunk my friend was, seemed like a nice guy...he let us carry on. Well I drop my friend off and turn around to go back home. I have to go through the checkpoint in an opposite direction but why should I worry...I then hear the infamous ODOR word and I know I'm in for a problem. They ask me to pull over, next to all the drunks. No ossifer I hadn't been drinking kinda stuff and here is me. I pull in and a different officer starts to prepare for my test which I started to take and then a small group of LEOs come over amd explain that I am a "stoner" not a drinker. That's what they called me. I got searched, they find nothing and then I hear are there any drugs in your pants, no way LOL. Well I got strip searched, I think, I had to remove my jeans so you tell me. Meanwhile my car is being searched without my permission, they even popped the trunk. I told them NO WAY. Answer I got was "idiots like you lose their rights when they do drugs and drive". At this point I am annoyed not even scared. Well bingo they found the motherload, 2 rolling papers from who knows when and stems...I never saw either that's what I was told. So off to be processed, I get their and I am administered a breath test, I blow a big fat 0. Officer tells me where to sit and that someone will drive me to my car in a moment. % minutes later a nurse type tells me I have to give blood. I think they may have messed up, I had to sign a form and when I signed the form I was told there were 3 options to determine if I was under the influence..pee, blood, or breath. Officer gets to pick one, I sigend the form before for a breathalizer, that's what the officer picked for me before the small group came oevr and told him I was a stoner LOL. Then again at the station I was given a breathalizer, I never signed a form for a blood test. Officer gets to choose one test and he chose breathalizer. So I put up a minor fight about my blood but I was told to TAKE IT. I think they may have pulled something on me there, and this is what frustrates me what if they did? Can I prove it?

As of this moment I am not under arrest pending the blood test for THC. Officer told me if my THC level was above the legal limit I would get a DUI. I said what's the legal limit his answer was since it's an illegal drug any amount will get you the DUI. I said but I could have smoked a month ago, he said yep you could have. He also lectured me on how the slightest level of THC will impair someone for weeks. As long as it's in the blood you are impaired. LOL are you kidding me, I'm getting a lecture from a guy who doesn't know squat about MJ and I know a lot...not to brag but I do. Well my blood is going to be loaded with THC so I expect to be charged. Can't talk to my lawyer till Monday. I also was surprised that all they had to say was odor and they could search my car even the trunk...I think this maybe a problem for them. But I am not sure. I wasn't imp[aired and I don't drink and this is my help, one officer even put it that way...they would get me help. Sure take away one of the things that keeps me from drinking thanks for the help.

I feel totally violated, I gave KEO my blood and all I did tonight was try and help a friend. This is out of the blue and I am convinced one hundred and ten percent that THEY CAN AND WILL DO WHATEVER THEY WANT TO BUST YOU. I drove through an alcohol checkpoint sober and as a designated driver and I get arrested...*** this is AMERICA and it was an alcohol checkpoint. One lesson I have learned well 2 cut my hair and shave. I got totally played and profiled, an odor my arse. I am so angry right now...stupid stupid stupid. My friend is going to feel so guilty. On a side note I got mocked when I was asked why I was out, "I went to a movie and then drove a drunk friend home". Sad thing was not 50 feet away was the officer who let me pass the first time through. They looked hard and it didn't feel very chckpointish to me. I am scared to death that their help may lead to some falling off the wagon and I'm scared, I am going to have to pee once a month, this is how they help me. Had I been smoking a joint in the car sure but not what happened it's not alright not at all.


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## IllusionalFate (May 31, 2008)

Wow that's ridiculous. They had no right to search you or your car like that.

Check out this video if you haven't seen it:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yqMjMPlXzdA

If you tell the LEO that you do not consent to a search, which it sounds like you did, you can have the charges against you dropped. You should definitely talk to your lawyer about it.


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## Dubbaman (May 31, 2008)

Wow man sorry to hear about the rough night. if it does start going to a DUI and record and such like that id ask to have all of the officers names that were working the checkpoint that night so you could identify the one who was somewhat legit with you about it. Have him testify that he had already once administered a roadside sobriety test to you and you had passed, Id also be doing my best to see the "evidence" (stems & wraps) that were found in the trunk. There are jerk off cops who will do and say anything they want to hem someone up and it sounds to me like the 2nd group was just that. Make sure that your Lawyer also gets that you signed the paper for the breath test and then they also took a blood sample without consent and against your will. All in all it sounds to me like you should be able to get a minor case built for wrongful imprisonment, but thats always tough to prove when there will be 10 other cops standing around to say he was trashed and arguing with us about stuff and being belligerent, or as they like to put it drunk and disorderly. Good luck man, crap like this is so wrong a descent lawyer should be able to shoot it apart IMO though.


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

I did not in anyway say they could I actually said NO and I mean it I said NO WAY. I also got some more info, my blodd has to come back at a 5ng/ml whatever the hell that means. BUT regular smokers break down THC slower so I am most likely going to get a DUI.

*Pennsylvania has a per se drugged driving law enacted for cannabis, cannabis metabolites, and other controlled substances.  (75 Pa. C.S.A. 3802(d) & 34 Pa.B. 919) 

Under Pennsylvania's law, motorists with detectable levels of THC in the blood above 5 ng/ml are guilty of DUID.*

I also read that the levels of THC in the blood is not something most medical experts consider impairing....for just that reason a heavy smoker is cmpletely different when it comes to their blood and the amount of THC in it over time. So the officer who told me any amount of THC in the blood would get me a DUI didn't know the real answer LOL.

I feel a bit better but I honestly felt violated, they have a vial or two of my blood and I didn't do anything to anyone including smoking and driving. I also feel that I did everything right from my standpoint I did I repeat I did say I DO NOT give permission for my car to be searched. They saw a stoner and they got them one there was nothing I could do at all NOTHING. Sad thing I was witness to some of the finest drunks, they got better treatment than me and there were some real winners let me tell you...they had no right driving period.


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## IllusionalFate (May 31, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> I also feel that I did everything right from my standpoint I did I repeat I did say I DO NOT give permission for my car to be searched.


That's good to hear, and puts you in a good position (at least better than most would be in a situation like this). Once you said that they didn't have  permission to search your car, those cops performed an illegal search and seizure. Regardless of whether or not you are guilty of DUI by law, I am pretty sure you can have the charges dropped based on that reason alone. Also, the fact that they forced you to take a blood test can only help your case in this situation.


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## BBFan (May 31, 2008)

I'm no lawyer, but my son got popped in a very similar situation- ie: profiling.  Charge got tossed after some community service.  The only thing that snagged him was he did give leo permission to look in his backpack.  Sounds like you should walk away clean on this since you didn't give permission.  You were never arrested, didn't give permission- your lawyer should take care of in a snap.  Good luck to you.


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## slowmo77 (May 31, 2008)

I don't know much about the laws in your state but i know the laws in mine pretty well. The moment they said they smelled something they had probable cause to search your car and your person, but in georgia its a plain sight search. they can only look at whats in plain sight, no digging under seats and glove box,. untill you've been placed under arrest. Then its open season on your stuff. they can do what ever.When i was younger i had a bad rep in my home town with the leos. i watched them completely strip the inside of my small pickup truck over a few seeds they had found in the floor. Its crazy at what they get away with. They can pretty much charge you with anything. In the state of georgia fast food bags in the floor of your car is enough for probable cause to search. If i were you i would contact a lawyer asap and see what they say to do. as far as the blood test and breath test they can give you both if one doesn't give a clear reading. i hate to here that your going through this. its never fun dealing with leo. good luck keep us posted


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

You are right, drug offenders lose certain rights, there was no odor thats what gets me, the saw a long haired bearded guy plain and simple. The Miranda form in PA, at least I think that is what they call it is what I had to sign I raed and was told they could only give one of the above mentioned tests urine, blood, or brath period. It also said I had no right to contact a lawyer, how the hell that happens I do not know. And MO it was not a plain sight search they were in my car and even popped my trunk. I never saw any stems or papers, papers are legal anyways, and I didn't want to press my luck. They still have my wallet and my keys, they would not return them. Look I know they have fun with people but I am not a moron I am an active member of Norml and I know the plant better than every single officer there combined. problem is if I fight it I will get nailed, nailed we all know how that goes. But the search of my car was not plain sight it was like an arceological dig IMO. So now I have to go down there and hold my tongue while I listen to ome crap while I try and get my wallet and keys. The officer that drove me home said one thing "sorry bud but it's out of my hands at this point", yeah thanks a lot. I am an alcoholic and I know myself without that stuff my battle just got 10 times worse, their system is helping anyone at all. Also just for some nice little numbers, hows this without giving away too much info to get me IDed. They put a number on your hand to process you at these checkpoints, my number is very close to 200 that's right 200 hundred...cha ching!!!!!!

But I think what upset me most was having to listen to them lecture me, they no squat about MJ and they are just trained attack dogs..robots. It's so frustrating, cuase I am a hermit, hell I'm on here all the time LOL and the one time I leave my house I get popped, sounds like my drinking days all over again. Only this time I wasn't doing anything. It should scare each and everone of you Americans, sobriety points are for caching impaired drivers not to act like a customs agency and look for something. I was very coherent and I think my lack of drugs on my person and the lack of alcohol made them look that much harder. Legal or not I feel totally violated, my blood is mine. Also they give you no food or drink which IMO is a must for safety reasons. That a the young meathead who was lecturing me about what a moron I am. Pot is worse than alcohol kinda junk and how I was a loser who needed help....I'll admit it I wanted to puch him in the face so bad, he was just a young little meathead. I messed up in the past, I got sober and this is what happens. i also got the lecture about AA and all these wonder drugs, i politelt told the officer that I had a different belief system and that I do not trust pills and AA did not work for me now please mind your own business. There are always a-hole cops and for the first time in my life I bit my tongue, cause no offense but the police have no right to attack my character or tell me how to treat myself. The reason I am proud of myself is I am a little bastard LOL, in the past when i felt a certain officer went too far I spit in his face. I am ashamed by it and it was one of the turning points in getting sober. I got him right in the face, dead center. LEO needs to learn they are here to enforce laws and that is it. I take my sobriety very seriously and I did not appreciate the attitude and lectures and the knocks on my character, I know it sounds whiney but I walk a very fine line everyday, most alkies will tell you that. i have contacted my lawyer friend and two Norml lawyers but I don't expect anything till Monday. Ignorance is a live and well in my parts.

Oh and Mo I got every officer that I could think of, they post their pics on the PD web site. Especially the young punk who thought he had the right to tell me how to treat my alcoholism...I hope he gets a rash you know where and it lasts forever.

Also here's the kicker I was not officially arrested, they have to wait for my blood test. If you are a regular smoker in PA you will get a DUI if they take blood end of story. It stays in our blood stream longer than a non regular smoker. I go back and forht as I sit here, they have no case and then I say I'm screwed...it's a system and whatever true info on THC is going to be ignored.

From the bottom of my heart...I just want to be Norml I am a sick person and I feel a bit weird cause I can't drink and be social and have a good time, you know meet girls hang with friends MJ helped me a ton. Not too mention I haven't been weened off in 15 years. I have an alcohol problem and a bad one, I am one of those that is not going to be helped but hurt IMO all for doing the right thing. I spoke to my friend and he feels horrible, he didn't believe me for like 15 minutes. I told him not to worry I know I did the right thing, he was a mess. Unfortunately I can no longer be a designated driver I have to turn my back on all my friends and those of you that know me know I am a man of my word and I like to help others, especially a guy who has stood by me through thick and thin,,,this guy lived in my house the first two weeks I got sober, he kept an eye on me. He's also the guy who went to AA with me when I tried it a couple of times. I love the guy he's my best friend you know? I have to clean up my act, I feel alone cause i get stoned, well not around you guys I feel at home here. But it's hard to be a single guy at my age and not drink, I get looks I get lumped in you know? I hurt no one and I got VIOLATED. Why is MJ so hated? Why? I hope one day it does come out, the truth and all the little robots feel really bad. I am an alcoholic and I know my boundaries and how to treat myself they have no rights to tell me what I can and can't do, they don't know what it's like. I am sick just like a diabetic, or someone with some other sort of disease, I'm an alcoholic and I did everything right at least in my eyes. I got laughed at violated, called a stoner and some other things.

I am more worried about taking piss tests than losing my right to drive, I am not sure I can stay sober and I'm terrified. If I drink my life is crap and somedays I need the help that MJ gives me...I NEED IT.


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## slowmo77 (May 31, 2008)

man do i understand where your coming from.  I know your angry and nervous and scared. Its ok. i don't know your past or criminal record but its never as bad as we think its gonna be. we always think they're gonna put us under the jail. but thats usualy not what happens. Im on probation, have been for 7 years, got 5 more to go. Just last year i was arrested 3 times for driving without a lices. I just knew i was going away. i knew it more that anything. i hired a lawyer, stayed sick worrying. each time i went to court i was so scared. told my wife i love her and prayed. each time i paid a big fine and walk out. my probation never came up. theres nothing you can do today. you called a lawyer, Norml, and thats all you can do. so roll one, pack one or what ever you do and don't let it get you down. Also you don't have to drink no mater what. think about how far you have come since you stop drinking. think about how much better your life is without drinking. Be proud of who you are today without drinking. and don't drink no matter what. good luck. if you need to talk just pm me. Trust me i understand


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

Oh I been through the system that's for sure, never jail just a holding cell here and there. But I came damn close and got out of dodge. trust me I know my life is better without it,it's just whenever I get a pang I need something to take the edge off and I'm a bit scared, they are taking my safety net from me you know that's all. I got freaking "pants" in a parking lot for christs sake while I watched dudes who couldn't even walk get cabs called for them. Sad thing is they have no idea what kind of attitude I have now. I learned when I got sober that I have a gift called anger...I know how to make it positive. I have a feeling I will be whole lot more active in the activism part...motivation to make things right. I don't grow anymore, I had to shut down so I am free to do what I have to do to raise awareness. I believe in it (MM), kinda happens when you are a life long smoker and you watch people close to you die of cancer. And I also know it helps with addiction I am a perfect example. I don't sit around I made a promise to my mom that I would help her and since she has passed I feel that I have conitnued that...I have no choice I refuse to sit around hoping things will get better when they get worse. In all my years of drug use I have never been caught with weed NEVER. I don't drive with it too much and I never smoke and drive...I think this is what has me so frustrated, I atually quit drinking and got a DUI it's so ironic LOL. Thanks MO. I know I have to wait till MON. but believe it or not one of the norml lawyers emailed me already. He wants me to write down every detail in order. He said I may not be in as much trouble as I thought but he needs to hear more. This whole incident has me more motivated than ever trust me. Negatives turn into positives and that's what I intend to do...something positive. I just felt the ignorance and hatred towards MJ up close and personal and let me tell you we are so far away from it being accepted it's ridiculous. I would have been better off drunk driving a guided missle LOL.


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## 4u2sm0ke (May 31, 2008)

sorry to hear what you are going threw snuggles..All LEO needs now is probable cause...If you are a known user then thats all they need now a days..it sucks and we here in the USA are losing our rights little by little...I sometimes ask myself who is the Dictator now..Good luck my friend..


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## SmokinMom (May 31, 2008)

Oh man snuggles, that completely sucks.  

I am angry for you.  You did nothing wrong.  The drunks were treated better?  Gimmie a friggin break.  

Sorry you had that happen.


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## trillions of atoms (May 31, 2008)

make sure you bring up the fact you want the video submitted for evidence. there no way they had a right to STRIP search you outside the jail and search your vehicle on top of that that will get thrown out in a heartbeat. did they read you your rights? if not then that is called fruit of the posionous tree.... that will discredit the entire case for the prosecution and have you walking out in notime- get a good atty....tell him the ENTIRE story and be honest.

goodluck .


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## bombbudpuffa (May 31, 2008)

Get a lawyer. There are a few offenses in you first paragraph. It will get tossed out with a lawyer. The strip search is the one that stands out the most...they can't do that.


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## smokybear (May 31, 2008)

That's crazy. I bet your friend feels terrible. I would if I were him. Definitely get a good lawyer. I can almost guarantee that this will be dropped with no problems at all. The search they made you do will do it, I think. They can't make you strip right out in the road in front of everyone. You may even want to consider a lawsuit. They have no right to embarrass you like that. Just my thoughts. I wish you the best of luck with it. Take care and be safe my friend.


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

It gets better, I went to the station to get my car and it was towed. No biggie where's it at, we can't release that info and even if we did you can't get your car till Monday. So I'm looking at a large bill. It's amazing how this is works LOL. I'm glad I don't have a job to go to today or tomorrow. I'm still trying to figure out what the hell I have to do to find MY CAR it's mine I have a right to know...at least I hope I do LOL. So tack on a couple hundred for my car, it was very surreal standing at the checkpoint feeling 100% fine and now here I am. Bastards I tell you all of them, I have lost all respect for the police in my neighborhood. I also think I got some special treatment cause they were hoping to find something and they didn't.

I will ask about a video, if they don't want to help I'm sure the lot where they pulled me over has a camera, it's a business.

Here's a link for you guys, cause I don't know if you realize it but anyone of is at danger for getting a DUI even if they aren't high or have not smoked for a day or two. And in some states they have zero tolerance for drugged driving meaning any THC will get you a DUI, the stuff stays in your system for a while and even though the medical field disagrees the legal system pushes these laws through.

norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6492

I will also report what happens the whole way through my journey, I figure we can all learn from it. Fact is we are treated worse than really drunk people LOL. Also so everyone knows I am sober but I have nothing against drinkers or alcohol it is what it is and I sure enjoyed it LOL. These drugged driving laws are bull though, please make sure to check out the link cause it's different from state to state.


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## MrPuffAlot (May 31, 2008)

I would never let anyone any where any place to ever take my blood
with out my concent.  Unless court ordered.

If any one ever is in any situation.  After complying and doing 
all that you can do to make a situation better, be a total aszhole.
Period.  fudge them.   Give your name birthdate and address, SS#.  and
THATS IT.. NO MORE.  NO LESS and SAY NOTHING ELSE.  ask for 
a lawyer.


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## MrPuffAlot (May 31, 2008)

Sorry about  your situation Snuggles.

Get a half way decent lawyer, and everything should be fine.
Contact your local bar association and try to find a civil rights attorney
and tell them your story about you being violated.  Maybe you can 
sue and file complaints against the officers.  When its time for them privates
to earn a strip the file follows them and hopefully bit them in the a ss

Its just a total scam.  now everyone is in your pockets.  Lawyers, tow truck 
driver, courts and etc.  when you get caught up into the system, its nothing
but a way of BIG BROTHER milking you for $$ every step of the way


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

MrPuffAlot said:
			
		

> I would never let anyone any where any place to ever take my blood
> with out my concent. Unless court ordered.
> 
> If any one ever is in any situation. After complying and doing
> ...


In PA if you do not give blood you automatically lose your driving priviledges for a year. The form even states that I havd no right to contact a lwayer to consult on my testing...it said it in plain print. I was an a-hole I answered nothing once I was arrested, of course they said you know we will be easier on you if you cooperate, we all know that little lie. I also found out that they are allowed to search my car but not dig through things until I am under arrest( Mo was right) The papers and stems were supposedly in the trunk, how the hell was I smoking my stem joints if they were in the trunk LOL. Anyways I was not officially charged with anything and they arrested me for paraphenalia once they found the papers, which won't stand as papers are legal. Technically they weren't allowed to go through my car until I am under arrest, well the papers were found in my trunk before I got charged...I may have some hope here.

And I promise all of you if I do have a case I will fight it and I do find that I can sue officers I will...wanna ruin my life for a bit I can do the same I have no feelings for these cowboys at all....no good feelings that is. i also hate suing but will do it since they are pinky commie bastards LOL.


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

MrPuffAlot said:
			
		

> Sorry about your situation Snuggles.
> 
> Get a half way decent lawyer, and everything should be fine.
> Contact your local bar association and try to find a civil rights attorney
> ...


 
You're telling me, I just got out of the system in October 2 years probabtion LOL. And I have been walking the walk, hence anyone could call me for a safe ride. I was living a clean life, even my grow was done LOL. It amazes me that there was no way for me to avoid anything...I was completely helpless to protect my rights, plus it's the US since when is a sobriety point a full fledged right to violate me. Also the laws need to change ASAP, any officer can say anything to get a search anything, all he/she has to say is odor. This is not good enough IMO, how can they prove that they smelled something (trap it in a bottle) LOL. Also I am not sure about your states but PA will be doing away with Breathalizers and they will be taking hair samples after the law is put into effect. Do you know how sacrey that is? for anyone who thinks this is not a big deal, continue to say goodbye to your rights. the constituion is garbage the US is garbage I am proud to be a fellow citizen but I hate my country and it's barbaric laws. There is a Drug War and I have decided this will motivate me to open my mouth even more, write a book etc. I realize now I am an enemy and always will be viewed as one, at least now I know who the enemy is. I refuse to go down without talking to a good lawyer who thinks he can help me not just walk me through the motions. I am an alcoholic and I have a story to tell and I hope one day I gather the courage and know how to help others and to do everything in my power to change laws here in PA, anything I can do that keeps me out of trouble. I refuse to not go down without a fight, the real evil is alive and well and it's not us it's them. You and I smoke MJ, big deal it's 2008 and I heard so much garbage last night, most police officers know nothing about the actual plant or the law for that matter. I also really want the little guy who was making me feel so badly, any of you guys ever demean an alkie? It's sick IMO especially when the said alkie is 2.5 years sober and trying so hard to have a better life. There is no compassion for people with addictions NONE, we are not treated like we have a disease and it is a diesease. I have a sound mind and body but my body lacks in certain areas I'm a sick individual who has done nothing but try to change his life and I don't mean to pat myself on the back but I went and got my own help, they never helped me when I was getting arrested, and I am very proud of it. It means a lot to me to say to someone that I am sober. And to be treated the way I was is ridiculous, why? What am I a bad person? When I rolled down the window and told the officer i do not drink, did he decide right then and there to show me lesson? Sure they did, scum.

I have zero respect for any of them now, unless I witness a violent crime I will never again help them in any way shape or form and they are my enemies....the started this "WAR" not you or I, and we are public enemy number one. Also the way I look at it I am only one person but together we are so dangerous, I think that's what really scares them, we are good people with good intentions to help others. I take great pride in sharing my gardening knowledge here but I have to do more and this has motivated me like nothing else. I feel like a man alone, I got no help from them when I drank then  I get my own help and they decided to disgrace me with a DUI. My name will be in the paper, many of the people that know me will see this in the paper and say "Oh man snuggles is back on the juice". I can't explain to a non alcoholic why that hurts but it hurts me a lot .....TONS. The demaned me and insulted me for my sickness, i also have to remeber to mention to my lawyer that the little LEO was yelling at me and demeaning me, he was also giving medical advice IMO and I think he should get some recognition for it...I'm a thorn in their side from this day forward.


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

Woops I forgot, please make sure your cars are 100% clean. No ifs ands or buts, clean cars guys/gals. I would hate for this to happen to anyone else....


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## Aurora_Indicas_Dad (May 31, 2008)

just last year i was facin ten years on an embezzlement charge.(felony that would make it almost impossible to get a job with)i got the case dismissed due to the fact my boss told some employees what happened and i paid one a quarter oz to stand up in court for me.i know a lil too much bout the cops and court system.i swear they always just say they smell something.i've been searched about a good 50 times.i have rims on my car so they automatically think i'm doing illegal activities.my boy got pulled over and searched last week.they didnt find anything but he's so paranoid right now.i've heard of them searchin peoples houses after finding stuff in their cars. even though they didnt find anything on him.they still sayed they smelt herb so he stopped all in and out traffic. i cant stand how we dont have any freedom in this country anymore...its honestly got to a point that i dont even drive my car to get herb anymore,i ride the city bus just do avoid this type of situation.cuz either way you have the short end of the stick by the time you pay a lawyor and all the other crap they tack on outta nowhere.its a little more of a pain in the butt ridin the bus,but this is one sure way that i wont be pulled over or messed with.i do this expecially when i got a garden goin.i dont risk my spot bein searched (damn cops!!!)i seen on the news yesterday where theyre havin to lay a bunch off around here due to financial problems.it made my day hearin that.anyways, welcome to the "home of the free" where cops get to do just about anything by saying".i smell some weed" i swear...you could fart right b-4 gettin pulled over and they'd still say "i smell somethin"  -peace

 p.s.
 if for some reason a cop is readung this message.this is my message to you.
 why dont you quit messin with people that want to spark up some herb.its not effecting anybody else and theres nowhere on record of it killing anyone..like alcohol and heroin on the other hand. its time you guys stop tryin to bust every pot smoker/grower and his brother and try fight something thats actually dangerous like some heroin. leave us bud smokers alone and stop pissin us off with all the b.s.!!not everybody that smokes is a "low life" or a bad person.you guys look at weed like its the devil or something...its no more deadly than all them donuts i see you guys buyin everynight in the bakery.bottomline,quit wastin our tax dollars on fighting a situation you'll never over power.this beautiful herb is here to stay..whether you take all of us to jail or not!!


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## Roken (May 31, 2008)

Keep your head up snuggles!! I too went through a similar issue.  Did you sign the release form for them to take blood??   if you did this will bite you in the butt if it goes to court.   The reson the cops say "Odor" is beacuse without probable cause they cannot search your vehicle, as soon as an officer says "odor" or i smell skunky funky he can now legally search the car.  Taking your pants off tho is another thing, that should of been performed at the station and not on a public street where "YOU MY FRIEND HAVE BEEN VIOLATED AND SEXUALLY HARRASED". This alone should get you off your charges if they have enough weight to press you, its a shame they target innocent people helping others get home safe.  I hope all goes well brother!!  Keep us posted, we got your back man!  Peace and Love!


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

Here in PA if we refuse the blood test we get an automatic years suspension and can still be charged. It's silly IMO no lawyer to confer with? How did this pass?

I have spoken with 2 pawyers in person, I feel a little better. First question they both asked...How much marijuana did they find. None I said, just some stmes and some papers. Stems are considered MJ LOL. Also the trunk and other things could not be opened unless I said yes or was under arrest and i wasn't when they popped the trunk. 

Yeah I'm sorry but the word odor is not enough IMO to do what they can do. Where's the proof, seriously.


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## Roken (May 31, 2008)

You got it in the bag man, i wouldnt worry to much.  Its too bad over stems and paper!!, must not be any real crimes they have the balls to face those cowards.  You should move out here to california!! a friendly pot state!! i've been let go with ounces before many of times.  Stay positive my friend you shall prevail!  Peace and Love!!!!

Roken.


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## snuggles (May 31, 2008)

Anybody want to smoke some stems? LOL thanks again guys I will keep you in the loop, we all can learn from it..I have never leave the house they will go out of there way to get you LOL. It's all money scam I know that. I have relatives in Cali, SD to be exact. I have 3 more years and then I want to sell, I might even live abroad who knows, Spain sounds nice LOL. The sad truth is that in certain states none of us are safe behind the wheel, especially if we are regular smokers we would have to sober up for two days or so, literally.

I also found this article, it does a comparison to BAC. My state is 5ng/ml thc/blood. Some states are 15ng/ml and some are anything at all. For comparisons sake a person who is 10ng/ml is only .05 BAC LOL. So in my state a 5ng level is equal to .025 BAC LOL. Unfortunately the law is the law but it sounds like a money making witch hunt to me.

stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/506/no_zero_tolerance_drugged_driving_duid_laws_experts_say


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## Dubbaman (Jun 1, 2008)

IT sounds to me like your going to be just fine man, after all the wrong things the :cop: did to humiliate and degrade you in public it should be tossed. As far as the which hunt goes the whole sham of a road side check point is ridiculous, sure it does help in getting the truly impaired off the roads (and makes a tidy bit of profit for the P.A.L.) but its really nothing more than a trap, a way for Leo to corner you and force you to play their game even if your not on the roster.


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## tcooper1 (Jun 1, 2008)

My son got popped sort a like you.only it was seeds(5 seeds) The cop was a jerk to him....We got a darn good lawyer and beat it...they can not search without your permission!!!!!   Good luck let us know how it goes


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## snuggles (Jun 1, 2008)

OK I met with another lawyer today. He thinks the search will hold believe it or not and then he hit me with a whammy. You do realize that the PA DUI laws have changed, I said I was aware of it but not totally in the "know". Well PA has a 3 tier system the higher the tier the higher the penalty. I said so what's my deal, 3rd tier. That's right I am automatically in the highest tier no way around it. So no matter how much THC comes back in that test I am considered the most impaired that one can be. Well if I lose I'm screwed. 90 days minimum. So for being a designated driver I get to lose my house, my business, all 7 of my pets, basically my life. I said if you were in situation would you sell your house...he said most likely he would. I'm screwed so be careful people very careful and if you are in a ZERO TOLERANCE state you are even worse off. I can't believe I might go to jail for it...and people say the situation is getting better, not here it's not. Essentially I drove a drunk friend home and for that I will most likely lose my life, sounds fair doesn't it.

Oh and no driving for 1.5 years, being as I run my own company and am the only employee I am doen, welcome to PA guys. What's the weather like in Canada?


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## trillions of atoms (Jun 1, 2008)

bro, when this is taken to trial tell your story directly to the judge. theres no way karma will get you like this...

id say make your case in front of the judge make sure you pay the money for the courtroom clerk to record the entire thing so if your unhappy with the verdict you can appeal to a jury of your peers. if anyone in there right mind were there youd be fine


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## HippyInEngland (Jun 2, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> my blood has to come back at a 5ng/ml whatever the hell that means.


 

Under the Federal guidelines, drug testing has two cutoff levels for positive detection. That is, labs that follow the guidelines consider drug testing to be negative if detection is below _either_ cutoff level. In the case of urine analysis, drug testing cutoff levels are measured in nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml). For example, an initial screening for marijuana must show at least 50 ng/ml, and then confirmatory tests must prove at least 15 ng/ml. If the initial screening doesn't show at least at least 50 ng/ml, then it's considered to be negative and the confirmatory tests aren't performed.

Resource here .....

h??p://jobsearchtech.about.com/od/laborlaws/l/aa090301_3.htm

The above is for drug testing at work or for work.

Why is it different for driving?

Interesting read below.

h??p://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle-old/441/michigan.shtml

Change the ?? to tt


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## Melissa (Jun 2, 2008)

*sorry to hear your troubles snuggles hope everything works out eace: *


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## snuggles (Jun 2, 2008)

I have 2 more lawyers to meet today, one is really high powered but she will work with me...supposedly she works miracles with stuff like this. And I am meeting with my friend who is a lawyer, I don't think he's right for me though, he's good for other things. I was explaining the DUID laws to him LOL. Just not his area but it doesn't hurt and he knows other lawyers. The high powered lady sounds great. She told me it's not about my rights it's about who she knows...yeah finally a badass lawyer.


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## godspeedsuckah (Jun 2, 2008)

Good luck Snuggles, we are all rooting for ya!!


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## Puffin Afatty (Jun 2, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> I have 2 more lawyers to meet today, one is really high powered but she will work with me...supposedly she works miracles with stuff like this. And I am meeting with my friend who is a lawyer, I don't think he's right for me though, he's good for other things. I was explaining the DUID laws to him LOL. Just not his area but it doesn't hurt and he knows other lawyers. The high powered lady sounds great. She told me it's not about my rights it's about who she knows...yeah finally a badass lawyer.


 
_Good Luck Snuggles!!!  Dont roll over for them on this one, make your Liars earn their $$$. I dont really like the system, but paying $$ is way better than doing time._ 

_BTW, Does this mean we need to start impeachment proceedings??? :hubba:  _

_I mean, sheeesh, the MVP being arrested for stems and papers while being a designated driver. I dont know if you will be able to live up to the massive responsibilities and perform the arduous duties accompanying the esteemed office of MVP???  And there is the whole other matter of the integrity of the Office of MVP to consider.  Will this stain ever wash away???_ :rofl:


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## snuggles (Jun 2, 2008)

LOL, I agree it sets a bad precedant. Who's the vice? **** Cheney made me do it. 


I meant this in jest, I joked on my rpg forums one day and got creamed...apparently some guys idol was DC. I tried to calm him down and I even told him I was a republican but it didn't help, so I moved on to Ted Kennedy (before I knew he was sick of course) and his driving. I kid you not I almost got banned LOL. Oh and this is a rpg board so no making fun of me LOL...I'm a gamer guys I think that might be worse than my crime. I'm a dungeon master sometimes, and you bet I'm high as a kite when I play. Man did I just say that out loud? LOL

You can start the proceeding now but I am going to declare war on The Bahamas to distract you all...


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## ChatNoir (Jun 2, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> LOL, I agree it sets a bad precedant. Who's the vice? **** Cheney made me do it.
> 
> 
> I meant this in jest, I joked on my rpg forums one day and got creamed...apparently some guys idol was DC. I tried to calm him down and I even told him I was a republican but it didn't help, so I moved on to Ted Kennedy (before I knew he was sick of course) and his driving. I kid you not I almost got banned LOL. Oh and this is a rpg board so no making fun of me LOL...I'm a gamer guys I think that might be worse than my crime. I'm a dungeon master sometimes, and you bet I'm high as a kite when I play. Man did I just say that out loud? LOL
> ...



I have been a GM for almost 11 years and ST for 8 years. Good to see another RPGer.


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## snuggles (Jun 2, 2008)

HippyInEngland said:
			
		

> Under the Federal guidelines, drug testing has two cutoff levels for positive detection. That is, labs that follow the guidelines consider drug testing to be negative if detection is below _either_ cutoff level. In the case of urine analysis, drug testing cutoff levels are measured in nanograms per milliliter (ng/ml). For example, an initial screening for marijuana must show at least 50 ng/ml, and then confirmatory tests must prove at least 15 ng/ml. If the initial screening doesn't show at least at least 50 ng/ml, then it's considered to be negative and the confirmatory tests aren't performed.
> 
> Resource here .....
> 
> ...


 
Here's some quick notes about the US. Job drug testing is usually only for jobs, you can't be arrested but you could be fired and or suspended. Some of these test are gov't contol (OSHA) ans ome aren't. States are free to set their own drinking laws too. However I think all states are 21 now, the gov't was giving extra money to the states for their highways if they set the age at 21. It differs from state to state and all I have to do is get a 5ng/ml to be guilty here that's it no ifs ands or buts the law is set in stone, they have tried to overturn it but the Supreme Court said no. Ignorance is a live and well in the US my friend. that is why I am so upset, I could technically never drive. Whe I got my car from the impound today I could have been arrested...I had eagle eyes LOL. First thing I did was clean the car. I am not going to get off unless a judge deems the search illegal. I get different answers from different lawyers. Also I have to be honest a lot of lawyers are clueless about MJ and DUID. Alcohol kills but they don't test for that later on, why? Also they twist the data to convince the antis that they are doing the right thing. MJ is the number one DUID drug, wanna know why? How long does coke stay in your body? More people do MJ than other drugs here. The statistics are all out of whack as usual, we know what stats mean...NADA it's all in how you present them.

Here is America notice the differences?
*norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=4516 *
Here are the state DUID laws, PA is not the worst BTW that's what is scary. It's absolute bull dung, most people over here don't pay attention to much, maybe some reality TV and Brittany Spears crazy life. Hurricane Katrina what? What are my rights? etc. they don't care. 
*norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6492*

Oh and I can do 30 days for the stems. This really has me angry, not to pick on people but I always hear oh it will change, they will tax it etc etc. THE TRUTH IS PEOPLE IT'S GETTING NO BETTER IMO IT'S GETTING WORSE. A second offense leads to 60 days etc. It's bad here in PA with no signs of anything at all.


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## Timmyjg6 (Jun 2, 2008)

Sorry to hear this snuggles... Good luck bro.. Sounds like your going to start WW3


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## snuggles (Jun 2, 2008)

I think I have my lawyer, my friend. I am friends with his son and it turns out his son got nailed the same night same checkpoint, weed and alcohol...egads. I do work for this guy, computer and web stuff. He told me we need to fight. He also knew the laws really well, when I was his neighbor me and his son would puff and he would yell at us LOL. Turns out he agrees with me he has been looking into it a lot lately. He wants me to find any links I can to disprove my impairment and then they will go on the site. This is great IMO it's going to raise at least one persons awareness and now I can fimally walk the walk. He wants me very involved he says I know a lot unlike his son LOL. I really want to get off, he thinks the search was bull but he said they are probably going to say how intoxicated you were which would give him the right to search cause I was noticeably intoxicated LOL, he said it's a joke. I also raised that lawyer question to him, "is it legal to volunteer as a lawyer cause they take volunteers, he said that would be a great idea but probably wouldn't work". Although he said it would be cool cause then the cops would have to follow procedure a little more closely. He knows a lot of people too...he is a council man in my old hometown. 

Also I went to turn on my radio and guess what, it was ripped out and stuffed back in, all the connections were torn apart. Sloppy as all hell. Also I did not get a phone call which is wrong, as I saw others getting their call. Here's what he thinks happened, they were really talking about the odor being alcohol, they could have ran my plates when I was in line. And I had some arrest when I used to drink, since I was passing the sobriety test and I look the stoner type so they probably were playing games. He also told me it's not uncommon for an officer to follow you run your plates and then decide if you are a good canidate for being pulled over, i.e. this guy has drug offenses lets go get him etc. that kind of stuff.

He did tell me though that if the blood isn't thrown out then I will most likely be doing sometime, but he said to relax and wait to see what you are being charged with. Oh and the most fun part is we are doing an experiment free of charge, his son is doing it too. He also owns a hospice/nurse care business and had them draw blood from me and his son, cool stuff. He's going to see what out lab reports say and compare it to what we are reading online, he said that way if they pull the it's a norml website and is pro cannabis we can then say we did something too. I will report back to you guys when we get our blood and lab reports, so i really am a guinea pig LOL.

Like I said I am going to try and remain calm and make this negative a positive...i.e. help raise some awareness. Also I went back to the bar to ask the bartenders if they would vouch for me driving a drunk friend home and drinking soda. Well when I went in I felt great word spreads quick, it was my old hang out and I saw so many friends I haven't seen in years. they were asking all sorts of questions and were flabbergasted to say the least when I walked them through LAWS if that's what you can call them. I have many friends here and on the boards and I realize now that I do actually have a "family" of sorts thaks everyone again.

And I promise to continue to share, also another positive, if I can't save myself I can at least help people who are unfamiliar with the law. If I have to do 72 hours it's worth it, if I get 90 days well then I'm coming out pissed.

What is happening to my home state, i used to be so proud to be a PAer and I still am proud to be a PHILLY guy, Philly is like another state and those LEOs deserve a pat on the back, they have lost some fellow officers lately, these guys are for real and I wish it had been the city cause they wouldn't have cared. But I am going to start planning my move, it could be 5 years but I'm moving somewhere legal where I can help and be helped and to enjoy myself.

Like I said it's time to walk the walk or plea...I'm gonna fight. It's my life and they have no right to take it NONE. I still can't believe this is America, I am a good person with an alcohol problem, that got me two arrests and now this might be a third. I realize people like me don't stand a chance in this enviornment, where's the rehab? where's my help? Why did I have to go out on my own to seek help? Because they don't care about us addicts we are useless, I wanna prove them wrong you know? I have two college degrees and just cause I am an addict doesn't mean I have to fear jail 24/7. I/ am tired of being a second hand citizen. I'm not as dumb as I look, LOL that's what my lawyer said in jest. he was actually impressed with what I knew, honestly made me feel important. Like I said I have limited options here, it's been really hard for me not to be arrested. a couple of the guys at the bar totally agreed, it's like an accident waiting to happen at any moment. I actually know a ton of bad dudes LOL. When you are in a room full of people and more than 50% have been arrrested it's saying something LOL.

PA sucks


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## Dubbaman (Jun 2, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> I have 2 more lawyers to meet today, one is really high powered but she will work with me...supposedly she works miracles with stuff like this.  The high powered lady sounds great. She told me it's not about my rights it's about who she knows...yeah finally a badass lawyer.


 
The one i keep on retainer is just like how you make this one sound let me tell you i call her the pit bull shes a 4th gen lawyer in my area and has the connects to make it happen : if shes real gung ho about a W then id be willing to bet shell get it. hope everything goes well man soundsl ike if you get some chance at an lesser option just ride it out and pack it up and away from there you know.


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## Melissa (Jun 3, 2008)

*well its sounds like your on the right track snuggles i hope you walk away from this without any repercussions,, oh and well done on staying sober :tokie:*


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## snuggles (Jun 3, 2008)

I didn't go with her, she sounded good but working with me and money is still too expensive. I went with my friend cause of his son, he is going to do everything he can for his son and I'm right with him. I also liked that he is sending our blood out to be done in a lab. He wants to see how much the THC dropped since. He is also talking about a doctor, but I don't know how much it will help. But my thinking was he's gonna protect his son at any cost....plus I do his computers so...LOL.

They try to keep us guys down, this is 2008 I should be able to have some privacy and rights to my blood. My lawyer said too if I refused the test they would have gotten a warrant almost guaranteed.


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## Dubbaman (Jun 3, 2008)

IMO man they stil had no right to do the second test the inital test chosen when the miranda waver was signed was for a breath test and then ater they gastapoed you into doing the blood test, as befoe i wish you well man hope it all woks out.


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## snuggles (Jun 3, 2008)

Dubbaman said:
			
		

> IMO man they stil had no right to do the second test the inital test chosen when the miranda waver was signed was for a breath test and then ater they gastapoed you into doing the blood test, as befoe i wish you well man hope it all woks out.



I have a couple things that we are looking into. The search could be a problem, but all they have to say is I was physically intoxicated. I bet you I am the only guy in the testing lot that could name most of the officers, all 5 PDs plus the State Troopers, and the name of the nurse/lady that took my blood. I also remember the order of everything. Was I intoxicated? Lawyer told me too that lots of times they get sloppy and they assume that the DUIer is so bad he/she won't be able to recall exactly what happened. The LEOs depend on this sometimes he said. He also said it may not have been MJ odor they were smelling LOL, phantom smells. He said the LEOs you see sitting in their cars on the side of the road are usually running your plates....wow what the hell is that? So his thinking was they smelled "something", remember I have 2 alcohol related arrests (not driving) so they saw that and wham. Once I said I quit drinking and the fact that I was passing the field test probably made them change their mind at that point. Shady, I guess he could be right but I would like to think that LEO would play fair....yeah right.

Also the lady nurse has been contacted and she is going to cooperate with us, she saw me and will testify that I seemed fine...just found out. She told my lawyer that she would be more than happy, she thought I was very polite and with it. She also said that she is opposed to drinking/drugging and driving but I was kind of a strange case. She didn't notice bloodshot eyes, I was attentive and aware I spoke clearly and that I kept my mouth shut despite some of the dickhead cops that were "picking" on me. And she didn't smell anything except booze and that was from the drinkers in there...LOL. I haven't given up on it getting tossed yet. Plus our strategy is too stretch it out, laws could change people could move, time could kill it. If not though I can still make a positive out of it by letting everyone know my story which sounds OK too. 

People you always have a choice even if your back is against the wall, the choices are getting down about it, give up, or fight. Plus I truly do believe that hardship can build character and that's not the worst that could happen to me. The worst thing that could ever happen to me did, my mom died. I have no children so what could be worse? I have seen my hardest days and I have seen my rock bottom already. I found a good friend to take my dogs if need be, my biggest worry...hey I'm a lonely guy, I lost my family for the most part, I am single etc. I got my dogs and they are my family, sounds sad but I love them so much I would hate to see them not be mine anymore you know? The house can always be sold and my business can always be rebuilt. I will have to start my own business again, I have 2 college degrees and they will probably be useless, who will hire me? 

I would also like to mention to all that the system is making an activist out of me....I need to meet some more and learn more on what I can do. I can do web sites, I can write, I can march, etc. I am ready for whatever I have to do, I have no choice plus I want things to change one day for the better.....and I will never stop NEVER I made a promise to my mom and I do intend to keep it. In the next life I would like to tell her that I tried to make the world a better place and that I have made so many friend because of an amazing plant, people I never knew existed and gathered in one place. Alone we are nothing together we are perhaps the most feared group of people in the whole country. Could you imagine what we could do to destroy some of the immoral big businesses. People don't believe the hype...MARIJUANA is the most dangerous PLANT in the world for all the right reasons. They are afraid of it and us, they don't understand us.


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## Dubbaman (Jun 3, 2008)

sunggles said:
			
		

> Also the lady nurse has been contacted and she is going to cooperate with us, she saw me and will testify that I seemed fine...just found out. She told my lawyer that she would be more than happy, she thought I was very polite and with it. She also said that she is opposed to drinking/drugging and driving but I was kind of a strange case. She didn't notice bloodshot eyes, I was attentive and aware I spoke clearly and that I kept my mouth shut despite some of the dickhead cops that were "picking" on me. And she didn't smell anything except booze and that was from the drinkers in there...LOL. I haven't given up on it getting tossed yet.


 As far as it goes there is the ace up your sleve right there and unbiased observation made by someone in the who is constantly there and in the correct profession to make judgements on who is and who isnt really trashed


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## godspeedsuckah (Jun 3, 2008)

Fight on brother!!


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## Dizzy (Jun 3, 2008)

thats bogus id fight it


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## snuggles (Jun 3, 2008)

Dizzy said:
			
		

> thats bogus id fight it



Of course it's bogus but it's the law...that's what is so scary. They have found a way around getting us at home smoking...it follows us where ever we go, if that makes sense. It's another stupid drug law IMO, are there any that aren't. 

The thing that ticks me off the most is the medical people...you guys shouldn't have to worry about taking your medicine. I know we don't know the whole truth yet but I'm willing to bet it is a great therapuetic drug that can help people...maybe not a cure but it's compassion and that is what burns me so bad. What kind of a country would do such a thing and why? Also why do cops get off on doing this stuff...they get their rocks off sending non violent offenders to jail, fellow citizens.

Here's something a little off topic but 3 of my buddies got DUIs last month, it was national drunk driving month. One is already in the first time offenders program his BAC .22. Another guy hit a telephone pole and continued to drive BAC he wouldn't say LOL. And the last guy got a .18. I am getting a harsher penalty than all 3...this is the truth in almost any state. One of my friends got ARD PAs first time offender rehab program. He told me that in the classes he has to take that they get to talk to a cop on certain days. I asked him if we could ask the cops questions? He said sure you can. I will have to go through this too and I have some questions for him.

Tell me what you know about THC/MJ? What kind of training do they give you and have you ever read a book or done independent research? Are you proud to be a cop and part of a system that regularly arrests non violent offenders? Are you proud to be part of a system that wages war on it's on citizens? Are you proud to be part of the system that can boast the highest prison population? LOL I can have some fun you know. And the last one, do you know any of the amendments to the Constitution? If so do you enjoy violating them? Do you realize that you lock up your fellow citizen? Does it make you feel good?


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## Timmyjg6 (Jun 3, 2008)

Get emm snuggles...... Im right there with you in spirit...


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## tcooper1 (Jun 7, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> OK I met with another lawyer today. He thinks the search will hold believe it or not and then he hit me with a whammy. You do realize that the PA DUI laws have changed, I said I was aware of it but not totally in the "know". Well PA has a 3 tier system the higher the tier the higher the penalty. I said so what's my deal, 3rd tier. That's right I am automatically in the highest tier no way around it. So no matter how much THC comes back in that test I am considered the most impaired that one can be. Well if I lose I'm screwed. 90 days minimum. So for being a designated driver I get to lose my house, my business, all 7 of my pets, basically my life. I said if you were in situation would you sell your house...he said most likely he would. I'm screwed so be careful people very careful and if you are in a ZERO TOLERANCE state you are even worse off. I can't believe I might go to jail for it...and people say the situation is getting better, not here it's not. Essentially I drove a drunk friend home and for that I will most likely lose my life, sounds fair doesn't it.
> 
> Oh and no driving for 1.5 years, being as I run my own company and am the only employee I am doen, welcome to PA guys. What's the weather like in Canada?


Why would you lose evrything?Why would you have to sell your house?Man I wish you all the good Karma and luck...as it sounds like you deserve it..Good things come to good people....so hang in there it will work out some how some way.....it will you'll see


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## snuggles (Jun 7, 2008)

tcooper1 said:
			
		

> Why would you lose evrything?Why would you have to sell your house?Man I wish you all the good Karma and luck...as it sounds like you deserve it..Good things come to good people....so hang in there it will work out some how some way.....it will you'll see


 
Well I'm single, own my own business and am my only employmee. I would be jailed for 90 days and then I would be not able to drive for 1.5 years that's a grand total of 19 months and I make about 4-5k a month so do the math...it's harsh to me remeber the only other guys who get this are the worst alcohol offenders in the PA system. I could walk, talk, think...I was completely coherent LOL, it's another law to pound us into submission. Charge me with possession of stems LOL and paraphenalia and get out of my face. Do I deserve to have my life turned upside down, meanwhile my drunk "friend" was home safe and sound. And my friend and I are not what I would call friends anymore but that's a whole nother story. I am convinced I am better off just keeping to myself and being a hermit, which is what I am. LOL it's no walk in the park that's for sure but hey what can I do except wait and wait LOL.


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## DomsChron (Jun 8, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> LOL, I agree it sets a bad precedant. Who's the vice? **** Cheney made me do it.
> 
> 
> I meant this in jest, I joked on my rpg forums one day and got creamed...apparently some guys idol was DC. I tried to calm him down and I even told him I was a republican but it didn't help, so I moved on to Ted Kennedy (before I knew he was sick of course) and his driving. I kid you not I almost got banned LOL. Oh and this is a rpg board so no making fun of me LOL...I'm a gamer guys I think that might be worse than my crime. I'm a dungeon master sometimes, and you bet I'm high as a kite when I play. Man did I just say that out loud? LOL
> ...


HELL YEA MAN! D&D ALL DAY! Im a dungeon master too man!

But on the other hand, this is the worst thing I have ever heard happen to a good person trying to help their friend, so he dosent retort to doing something stupid and getting killed on the way home.

I think you are doing the right thing and your on your way to a good case. You have tons of people defending you. Oh, and BTW, your goal which was to help other peole stay clear of this situation, is working. I learned so much from this, and realize if you had only not had any stems then you would not have gotten in trouble.

I hope one day, for you snuggles, get in this same situation. Except the situation will be ideal. I will have a clean car, it wil smell nice with my air freshener, and the officer will do the exact same thing. But oh, wait? Where is everything? NOTHING in my car. I live in NY so no blood test, so they won't know I smoke.

Ill create the situation for you to cheer you up and show you what will happen one day to a shitty officer as payback.

Im drving down the street peacefully, and whoop whoop, I see the flashing lights. So I pull over, and I am very cooperative. Oh no, he is asking me to step out of the vehicle. But, I do obviously, and I stay cooperative. He informs me the reason he pulled me over was because of a blown out tail light. He then goes, whats that I smell? You been tokin the reefer? It smells like Bob Marleys *** in here! (haha a line from supertroopers) So I politely inform the officer I was not at all smoking in my car not cigarettes nor weed, because I do not allow smoking in my car. He does not beleive me and it starts your situation all over again. They dont find anything, yet they still search EVEN WITHOUT my consent, and I repededly tell him I do not consent to searches. But, I get strip searched and all. They find NOTHING and he seems a little embarresed and flustered for stopping me and searching my car over a meer TRAFFIC stop! So, I politely accept the ticket and ask the officers, excuse me sirs but what are your names? I grab the names and take them to court and sue them for everything they own. And spend all the money I make on a 100000000000000000 watt HPS light, 4 times the power and light spectrum as the sun and grow the dankest weed ever that has 400% THC level and I give it to you. How does that sound man?

Oh, And I'll see them on the streets one day asking for spare change because their families left them and their all alone. And then I make fun of them and ridicule them and their problems. And tell them they need help and they have medical conditions. And Ill laught and joke just like they did.

Ill do this for you snuggles I'm ready to take on them cops, not one bone in my body that isn't ready to hand out pure ownage to those officers that screwed you so hard.

I got your back man. I got you man.


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## snuggles (Jun 12, 2008)

Nothing new to report, it's been almost 2 weeks and no letter or word on my court date yet. My lawyer is thoroughly impressed though, he didn't know all the "new" stuff about MJ..meaning the scientific data, he always thought it was an excuse but now he knows more. Makes me feel good to know he is reading up. Although I now feel guilty after I smoke, thanks to LEO...I cut back a bunch. I'm antsy, I sleep about 3 hours a day and I can't relax LOL, scatterbrains I tell ya. But I still have my head up high, they will not take my pride from me, also I have a good friend who will cover me financially if I do have to go away. I will not lose my house or life cause of these guys I REFUSE. Which brings me to the subject of addiction and help from the system...there is no help, addicts are bad people and who gives a crap if we tarnish their record, ruin their life or take their house..they should learn. Hey man I quit drinking and now this, I will show them what a well rounded and determined person I am it's my goal. Nice to know that the system is so compassionate. And also how does this help anyone? Had I been stoned sure throw the book at me but I wasn't so I'm going to continue to have a chip on my shoulder about the whole bogus law..metabolites stay in the blood for a long time and don't make you high so I think maybe the state should start making laws based on science/medicine rather than have a bunch of lawmakers just make it up. IMO it is just another invasion of my privacy, smoke a joint 12 hours before in the comfort of your own home and they can still get you. Do they test for alcohol 2 days after you drink...nope. But I do understand now, it's OK to drink cause it's legal but MJ no way...sends a mixed message if you ask me.

Anyways I will let you know when I know more, but like I said I will not have my pride taken from me so they have a fight either ways...if I have to pay 10k for a jury trial I will. I may look like a stoner but I have some money and I have some friends and that's all I need...I don't care if it takes 3 years I WILL NOT BE BULLIED BY THE SYSTEM OR LEO, wanna charge me for stems and papers go ahead I'm guilty...driving while drugged is another story and I will not be shamed or made to look like a careless drug addict (not my words, one of the LEOS said it). I gave up the poison which is more than most can say.

Also I found out where most of these cops drink, my friend manages a rest./bar in the area and he told me...LOL I hate that cops are immune to the same laws as us. He promised to make some special drinks for them, yuck not my idea but I can't stop him. I am childish so I will take some comfort in it. Also whoever said I couldn't call the cops from a pay phone if I saw someone leave the rest./bar intoxicated, they may not get arrested but it still is something to consider...LOL


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## KGB30 (Jun 12, 2008)

You got to love the Lawenforcers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Puffin Afatty (Jun 12, 2008)

*while I was a drug counselor, I was called into court to testify on behalf of a patient, who coincidentally was on probation and had busted a p test.  

before my client arrived, the honorable judge, now a distinguished congress person from cleveland, was joking with the prosecutor and the bailiff about putting the fear of God into this patient of mine. 

 I found it totally inappropriate, and mentioned it, and the honorable Judge told me, it aint the 60's anymore Hippy and glared like She wanted me decapitated. 

then they brought my client in and it sounded like a prayer meeting with the honorable Judge as the preacher.  

IT WAS ALL A BIG SHOW.  It made me sick, a play by play, rehearsed, choreographed and all.

When they asked me about my Professional opinion, I said he never busted a p test with me and as a matter of fact had given 1 the same day and was processed by your own lab and it was negative.

The Honorable Judge exploded at me, telling me not to contradict the results.  I simply stated that I was asked my Professional opinion and the patient was living up to his treatment objectives with me, hadnt given me any reason to suspect continuing use and I had to contest the prosecutions assertions.

I then made the mistake of speaking person to person to the honorable Judge, saying that I didnt tell her how to run her courtroom, so please dont tell me how to be a substance abuse counselor.

Well, that was all She could take and the defense attorney actually stepped between me and the Judge as She was about to hold me in contempt.  He was saying we were here to concern ourselves with other issues, not a fight between the Professionals.

I was a little afraid I was headed to jail too, but when they took my patient out of the room, everything changed and the Judge was smiling and even commented that I did good.  IT WAS ALL A SHOW, no hard feelings eh. :rofl:* 

_*my only advice is to try not to worry about it, that's time that you dont get back, and the system doesnt deserve from you.*_ :hubba:


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## SativaWeed (Jun 12, 2008)

In IRAN they've instituted a program to HELP their addicts like they're PEOPLE with a problem, NOT CRIMINALS. IN FREAKING I-R-A-N!! This country is so backwards-*** stuck on so many issues it's just disgusting. WHY WHY WHY can't we be leaders in humanity, decency, compassion and common HUMAN CARING to the rest of the world!?!? We spend less on education than Iceland and THEY'VE got a near 100% literacy rate! 
Laws are important and should be enforced WHEN APPROPRIATE. Laws aren't supposed to be taken so literally that common sence and compassion are thrown out the window. Keep fighting the good fight snuggles, they may take our lands, they may take our lives, but, they'll NEVER TAKE AWAY OUR FREEDOM!!


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## pussum (Jun 12, 2008)

I came out of lurk mode because I am so angry right now I can't even see straight. Lately I have been reading more and more about marijuana (both Medicinal Marijuana and non-medical) and the types of people who use it. So far I must say that a small minority of people are processed under such a large magnifying glass that, that small minority is falsely presented as the majority. Who are these small minority? The idiots out there pushing rock, H, smack, black beauty's, ect ect. Because "old" society, these baby boomer's who refuse to die, are still in power. They focus the attention on this small percentage of people who in all reality are despicable scum and deserve the treatment they get, but they focus the attention on these people and use it for their own agendas.

They have manged to shift the view points of society in such a way that, as pathetic as it is, people busted for marijuana have the potential to be punished and suffer twice as long and twice as harshly as people who actually commit violent crimes. I was reading a story not to long ago about a man who was in prison, prison not jail, for possession of one ounce of marijuana. He was put into a cell with a man who was doing time for beating his step father almost to the point of death with a claw hammer. They entered the jail at the same time and were put into the cell on the same day. That man who had never committed a violent crime in his life and had no record prior to the marijuana charge watched his cell mate not only leave after one year, but he was there long enough to watch the man come back AND serve another six months before he himself was released. This is completely and utterly ridiculous. 

I really feel for you on this one. You go and help a friend, make it through the check point once with no problems, and get busted the second time going home. How pathetic it is that these cops had nothing better to do than to harass you over nothing. If you take the sobriety test, talk coherently, walk and stand or sit without swaying or falling over, where is the problem? Where the hell do these people get off doing this to their fellow man? Why aren't these morons out there focusing on the drunks? Just think. The time they spent messing with you probably cost them the opportunity to actually bust a few drunk drivers that got past them and could have actually killed someone. 

Until the day someone comes out with bonnafied scientific research that says "hey this stuff impairs people and is incredibly damaging to the body as a result of consumption" I say let us be free to do as we please in a country that was founded on freedom with a first president who actually encouraged farmers to get out there and grow things like hemp and the like. 

I could go out and kick the living day lights out of a 75 year old man and drag him down the street bloodied and bruised to the police station, admit to what I did, and be out in a few days if not a few hours. If I go to the police station and light up a bowl and start smoking I may not see free daylight for a very very long time. Where is the justice? 

I for one hope on everything that is right in this world, that your charges are dropped. Fishing for criminals is completely wrong. Though I do not know you on a personal level I feel in my heart that you are a good person who, like everyone else in this world, has had some bumps on their path through life. You, I am sure, do not deserve to be punished for this. There is so much wrong in this world if a man can't do his friend a favor, and possibly save a life by not letting them drive drunk, without being harassed like this. Frankly, I see no difference in smoking weed than I do cigarettes other than the fact that cigs WILL GIVE YOU CANCER AND KILL YOU.

People should be thanking you for taking time out of your busy life to answer the call of a friend in need and do the right thing. The majority of police officers out there have no clue anymore. Yes I know they deal with the scum of the world on a daily basis, but somewhere along the line they have forgotten that there are actually good people out there who do not mean others harm. I applaud you for saving a life, but more so, I applaud you for not dropping down to their level of cowardice, and taking your situation like a man. 


I actually had to edit this post way way down because it ended up being about three single spaced typed pages. I apologize for the length and hope that I caught all the naughty words. I just kind of let me fingers take over and type what they wanted. 

Truth be told, I really hope you come out of this one top. If this case isn't dropped, and a legal defense fund needs set up. You mark me down for a donation immediately.

Good luck!


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## Tater (Jun 12, 2008)

I didn't read the whole thread but I did read your first post and a few others.  I skimmed it.  But sounds like their are a lot of people that would benefit from watching the video Barry Coopers Never Get Busted Again.  Its an ex DEA agent turned pot activist who shows you the ins and outs.  Lots of it dosen't apply here in Canada but there is still a lot of good info.  Oh and the one thing that you shouldn't have done is let them take your blood and you should have demanded (DEMANDED) legal counsel.


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## pussum (Jun 12, 2008)

Tater said:
			
		

> I didn't read the whole thread but I did read your first post and a few others.  I skimmed it.  But sounds like their are a lot of people that would benefit from watching the video Barry Coopers Never Get Busted Again.  Its an ex DEA agent turned pot activist who shows you the ins and outs.  Lots of it dosen't apply here in Canada but there is still a lot of good info.  Oh and the one thing that you shouldn't have done is let them take your blood and you should have demanded (DEMANDED) legal counsel.




Here is the problem. Our whole lives, from the day we are born, we are taught and guided, and even forced to believe that the police are here to protect and serve. In many ways they are, but at the same time they are also out to meet their numbers and get a paycheck. A cop will do whatever he can to ensure that he stays gainfully employeed, so when it comes down to situations like this where your head is telling you this isn't right, but the cops are telling you it is standard procedure your conditioning to believe that cops are out to help us kicks in and we coerece ourselfs into thinking that the cops aren't going to mislead us because they are here to help us. 

I really don't think he could have avoided going downtown because in all reality if a cop decided you are going down town there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. 90% of the time they know the laws they can manipulate to ensure the situation plays out in there favor. We, the general public, do not. Not only that, but there isn't such a thing as a "roadside trial" where you can just have court and defend yourself on the side of the road and be on your way. One way or another you will be going to the jail. What throws this whole story for a loop is the fact that they denied him legal representation before they took the sample. I could notorize on a form that my butt from hence forth shall be referred to as the "King of the USA", but that doesn't make it legal and binding. Because it said he couldn't have a lawyer present doesn't mean that it is to be legally respected and that he had to respect that. No matter what, if you go downtown like that, the lawyer is the first, if not only, person you call. For all we know that little snipint of information could have been referring to the fact that when giving a sample no one else can actually be present IN THE ROOM due to contamination and chain of custody issues but because of where that little blurb was placed it could have been interpreted a million different ways.


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## Tater (Jun 12, 2008)

What?  I'm totally lost what are you talking about?  Nobody can take your blood without your permission or a court order period.  Cops can lie to you they can say anything they want to try to get you to comply with what they demand but thats just it, the power is ultimately in your hands.  What does conditioning etc etc have to do with anything?  Condition yourself to shut your mouth if you get busted.  Condition yourself to demand a lawyer.  Condition yourself to be aware of the laws where you live.  In reality knowing your rights and how to exercise them is YOUR responsibility, I mean come on we all spend hours on this site and in our grow rooms or outdoors or where ever you grow perfecting our art all the while for most of us we know that what we are doing is illegal.  How about spending a couple of those hours making yourself informed?  What does notorizeing a form have to do with anything I mentioned?  All I said was this is a good video to teach you the ins and outs of dealing with cops and that he should have refused the blood sample.  What are they going to do tie you down and force you to give blood?  You ever seen a nurse try to take blood from a child that dosen't want their blood taken?  I gaurantee that if they tried to take my blood without my consent it would take more than a few officers to hold me down and I know they would leave physical marks on my person in the process.  Did you also know that you can file civil suits against the police?  Not knowing or ignorance is not an excuse.  The difference between knowing and not knowing could possibly be jail time so do the math.


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## Tater (Jun 12, 2008)

Oh and another thing, cops can't charge you with anything.  They can serve citations and make arrests but they can't charge you with anything thats up to the DA.  (or someone else in the legal hirearchy I can't remember atm.)  He also could have refused the strip search but because he complied and took off his pants and handed them to the officer its legal.  I've been in more than my fair share of trouble with the cops and the number one rule is keep your damn mouth shut.  Rule number two, lawyer up.  Rule number three civil disobedience is not against the law.

Remember cops don't have to tell you the truth.  Just because the nice officer said they have the right to shove their fist up your butt dosn't make it true.


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## snuggles (Jun 12, 2008)

Tater said:
			
		

> I didn't read the whole thread but I did read your first post and a few others. I skimmed it. But sounds like their are a lot of people that would benefit from watching the video Barry Coopers Never Get Busted Again. Its an ex DEA agent turned pot activist who shows you the ins and outs. Lots of it dosen't apply here in Canada but there is still a lot of good info. Oh and the one thing that you shouldn't have done is let them take your blood and you should have demanded (DEMANDED) legal counsel.


 
In PA failure to give blood is an automatic guilty plea, meaning automatic 1 year suspension and then they still have the right to search your car and charge me for other things too. Also the form you sign specifically states that you are not allowed legal counsel prior to a blood test here in PA its completely legal, I have watch the video, problem is like the above poster said if they want you they have you...it's like a stupid loophole around my rights and completely legal. Also DUI or DUID is different from state to state. If my blood comes back less than 5ng thc I'm good but it won't. 5ng is nothing. But if it does you best believe I will be one angry camper but it is ashame when some is a homeowner and pays his taxes in the town where he was arrested for driving through a check point key word being checkpoint not a border stop involving customs and I'm sorry but this whole odor thing is ridiculous how can they prove they smelled it to begin with cause I promise you all I did not smoke in the car and I didn't smoke prior...I HAD longhair and I HAD a beard, also I was given some special treatment LOL great cops let me tell you. I would love to see them get the boot. Odor is a scarey word, not just cause it stinks but because it now means they can violate your rights give me a break. I smelled something that night...BACON...stupid pigs.

Thanks guys it does mean the world to me...and I would say I
m a good person or a bad person, I do many good things and I have and will continue to do some things badly I'm human but now I truely understand the war on drugs and I am the enemy I had no choice I'm on the wrong side LOL. Thanks guys


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## snuggles (Jun 12, 2008)

Tater said:
			
		

> Oh and another thing, cops can't charge you with anything. They can serve citations and make arrests but they can't charge you with anything thats up to the DA. (or someone else in the legal hirearchy I can't remember atm.) He also could have refused the strip search but because he complied and took off his pants and handed them to the officer its legal. I've been in more than my fair share of trouble with the cops and the number one rule is keep your damn mouth shut. Rule number two, lawyer up. Rule number three civil disobedience is not against the law.
> 
> Remember cops don't have to tell you the truth. Just because the nice officer said they have the right to shove their fist up your butt dosn't make it true.


 
I didn't take off my pants, he asked if I had drugs in my pants and I chuckled it was funny well he didn't like that I WAS PANTS. I also told them they could not go through my car or trunk so maybe I have something there.


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## snuggles (Jun 12, 2008)

hey have every right to take my blood, urine, or a breathalizer read this page...laws are different from state to state

willdefend.com/CM/FSDP/PracticeCenter/Criminal-Law/Drunk-DrivingDUI.asp?focus=faq
*
Q: Can I refuse a Breathalyzer® test? 

A: Every state has its own version of an implied consent law providing that a driver impliedly consents to alcohol testing just by the act of driving. In many states, a refusal to take a breath test is itself a criminal violation subject to stiff penalties. For example, refusing a breath test might result in automatic drivers-license suspension or revocation. If you are ultimately found guilty of a drunk-driving offense, there may be additional penalties because of the test refusal, such as a stiffer sentence. Your test refusal may also be used as evidence against you in a drunk-driving case.*

This applies to blood also, so it's gestapo intimidation. If I don't it gets worse if I do it's not as bad but I had no choice, I have to let the court settle it....and I agree it's my blood MINE. I found out that my best action would have been to say I was drinking passed the test and let go, they can only do a check on one thing and only once...IRONIC LOL.


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## Tater (Jun 12, 2008)

Well from the DUI cases I have seen (this is in Canada mind you) it is also illegal to refuse a breathalyzer here but your chances of wining your case are way higher if you refuse to blow or give samples.  Dude if you are living in a state where they can take your blood without your consent why don't you move.  Thats ridiculous. 

If you had nothing in the car you should have consented to a search, 9 times out of ten they will do a quick sweep and you'll be on your way.  Chances are they did a much more thorough search because of your refusal.  And just because they say its illegal to refuse a blood test dosn't mean its not your best course of action.  Its also illegal to grow your own pot remember lol.  That quote above mentioned nothing about blood.  Breath samples and blood samples are two totally different things.


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## Tater (Jun 12, 2008)

I did some digging of my own and your state law says that you do have the right to refuse a blood test but if you do they then have the legal right to revoke your license for 12 months.  Its not a DUI just a refusal to present samples charge and won't result in criminal penalties.  No license and no criminal charges or no license and criminal charges.  The choice is yours, I know I can go 12 months without my license but going to jail would sure suck ***.


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## pussum (Jun 12, 2008)

Tater said:
			
		

> What?  I'm totally lost what are you talking about?  Nobody can take your blood without your permission or a court order period.  Cops can lie to you they can say anything they want to try to get you to comply with what they demand but thats just it, the power is ultimately in your hands.  What does conditioning etc etc have to do with anything?  Condition yourself to shut your mouth if you get busted.  Condition yourself to demand a lawyer.  Condition yourself to be aware of the laws where you live.  In reality knowing your rights and how to exercise them is YOUR responsibility, I mean come on we all spend hours on this site and in our grow rooms or outdoors or where ever you grow perfecting our art all the while for most of us we know that what we are doing is illegal.  How about spending a couple of those hours making yourself informed?  What does notorizeing a form have to do with anything I mentioned?  All I said was this is a good video to teach you the ins and outs of dealing with cops and that he should have refused the blood sample.  What are they going to do tie you down and force you to give blood?  You ever seen a nurse try to take blood from a child that dosen't want their blood taken?  I gaurantee that if they tried to take my blood without my consent it would take more than a few officers to hold me down and I know they would leave physical marks on my person in the process.  Did you also know that you can file civil suits against the police?  Not knowing or ignorance is not an excuse.  The difference between knowing and not knowing could possibly be jail time so do the math.




Basically that whole thing meant that cops will do whatever it takes to get someone put into jail if they want to and that, long story short, cops use the fact that we, as people, are made to believe that they are supposed to be our friends and that even when in their custody all they want to do is help us. Which as we, in this forum, all know is completely and utterly wrong because they take that trust and prey on it. 

I also meant that they could have had anything written on that paper and tried to convince him it was true but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is which you pretty much sumed up in your above posts.


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## snuggles (Jun 13, 2008)

I'm telling you in PA a refusal is an admission of guilt, trust me I live here I know. There was no phony paper and there was nothing I could do. If I refused I was placed under arrest for suspision of DUI then from that point onward they are allowed to search anything they want without a warrant...also stems and rolling papers were found. As they were search I said no they never asked my consent at all.
*Under PA LAW , any person who holds an operator's license within Pennsylvania, and is in actual physical control of the movement of a motor vehicle shall be deemed to have given implied consent to one or more chemical tests of breath, blood, or urine, if an officer has reasonable grounds to believe the person had been driving, operating or was in actual physical control of the movement of a motor vehicle while impaired. If a driver refuses, he/she will have their license suspended for 12 months and 3 days mandatory incarceration. If they are subsequently convicted of the D.U.I. or D.A.I. charge, the suspension will be in addition to the suspension for the D.U.I. or D.A.I. conviction. A person is not entitled to have an attorney present for this particular test.*

And PA isn't Canada trust me, I had about 15 second to make the decision and I can't lose my license for a year, I run my own business and am my only employee, and then after I refused they would have searched my car and still found the stems and papers and then they can charge me with more and I still have to go to court and win the case otherwise it gets added on. I was also under the impression I could get the first time offenders program but drugged drivers in PA are considered the highest tier and automatically are not allowed...woops. You used to be able to just do the year suspension but not anymore, and once you say no you are arrested and like I said in the US once you are arrested they need no warrants at all. There is really no way out. Also the form is totally legit. Like I said if that ever happens to me agin I was told to say I had been drinking and I will be given a breathalizer which I will pass and they can't take anything else or check for anything else. Also in PA you can get a DUI at .02 if they deem you are impaired, it's up to LEO there are no lawyers allowed at checkpoints. I appreciate you trying to help me but PA doesn't mess around with drugs or alcohol at all. Our alcohol is even state controlled, when you buy liqour you so to the STATE STORE and PA is a commonwealth meaning they generate revenue from arrests. And why do I live here, well I was taking care of my mom and I bought my house 1 month to the day of her passing. This is also my home but I will be leaving when I am allowed. I talked to tons of lawyers and they all said the same thing never refuse a blood test, breath test, or urine test...they will throw the book at you. And under PA law urine blood and breath are all the same.

American laws are made to seem like your rights aren't violated but they are, LEO has loopholes. I have the right to search and seizure according to the constitution but as soon as I am arrested or put under arrest for suspicion they can go to town and search. All they require for suspicion is odor that's all. So I smell something I place you under arrest for suspicion of DUI and then you have no rights to say no to a search, they search find the stems and papers (it could have been a seed anything really) then they can order a blood test anyway since you are incarcerated and you get a double whammy...great laws LOL.


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## pussum (Jun 13, 2008)

You are absolutely correct. The laws here are placed as a distraction and false security to make you think you are not being violated while they are in the back lubing up their billy clubs.

Then, to top it all off, when you scream about a violation they just point to the laws and crutch on them as their defense or even worse they will end up pointing to some "legal precedent" that is so old the context of the case no longer applies to this time.


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## Dadgumit (Jun 13, 2008)

As far as this law in PA goes I can vouch for snuggles.  You can interpret the law any way you want to, but I'm tellin' ya "it is what it is" there.  PA is like no other place I've ever been, in the legal sense.  The police have sooo much power in that state, it is absolutely ridiculous.   I have witnessed the police (and the State Police no less) talking to someone's attorney saying that they knew that the charges against the person were made up but they went ahead anyway!  As unique and beautiful and (sometimes) fantastic PA can be, anymore you don't want to let the sun set on you there...


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## Tater (Jun 13, 2008)

Whoa just read all the above there and crazy.  Absolutely crazy.  All the best man.


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## snuggles (Jun 13, 2008)

Yeah it's weird here, too many police. In fact where I was stopped at the checkpoint there were 5 police departments and the State Troopers, and that's all in my little neck of the woods. They had access to 3 large parking lots, with all the tow trucks ready. They had paddy wagons doing trips, it's an organized fund raiser here, sure they help catch people but enough is enough. MADD cries about stuff and everyone comes running, meanwhile I'm an angry son who watched his mother suffer and all I ask is that others like her, our loved ones, have an option and some compassion but I'm viewed as a bad guy for my beliefs. Meaning I want people to have the right to puff if they are ill, not a cure but compassion. Meanwhile some moms get together and change the face of our legal system. I am against drunken driving I am and I would never get behind the wheel if I felt impaired. Even when I drank I never drove never...people get hurt or even orse dead but enough is enough not everyone is a bad apple. It's really scarey how much power even a small time cop has, and we all know they have a high rate of alcohol dependence it's a fact and they help each other out. I think cops should get double penalties not people who smoke some MJ. Cops are supposed to be role models (LOL) so you do a crime, twice the time. In Jersey a cop abused the lights, didn't feel like waiting so he flipped his ights and ran through an intersection, he killed 2 girls, sisters at that he is only getting charged with manslaughter last I heard, sickening. Now some mom has no kids cause some douche couldn't obey traffic laws like we HAVE to.


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## snuggles (Sep 13, 2008)

Earlier this week I had my first hearing...all charges dismissed, illegal search LOL, I guess we still do have some good judges who care about the rights we have to protect ourselves. Garden is back up and my attitude is still a good one, but now I wanna start some fires...LOL not real fires, it's a figure of speech I like to use. Meaning I will not stop being an activist or doing what I think is right. One positive that came from this is now my friends and family know that MJ is no laughing manner when it comes to ridiculous punishment, most people still think it's a small fine or something LOL wake up and smell the coffee or rather smell the weed.

Thanks for being such good friends guys and gals, your support helped me so much. Thank you, I owe you all.


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## Puffin Afatty (Sep 13, 2008)

:woohoo:


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## SmokinMom (Sep 13, 2008)

snuggles said:
			
		

> Earlier this week I had my first hearing...all charges dismissed, illegal search LOL, I guess we still do have some good judges who care about the rights we have to protect ourselves.


 
*Most excellent!  I am very happy for you snuggles.  *


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## Dozingoffaroundthecorner (Sep 13, 2008)

It sounds like you live in a small town and those cops were hating on you. How would they know you are a "stoner"? Maybe you should get a lawyer in the major city close by to handle the case. It sounds like those cops really screwed up. It's a waste of time. A paraphernalia ticket would have been more profitable and would have used the time more efficiently but instead they went out of their way to be jerks. It just sounds like they hated on you. Did the one officer that let you pass the first time see what those idiots did?


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## Dozingoffaroundthecorner (Sep 13, 2008)

Well I guess I am a little behind in the conversation but I have to say your attitude is admirable. As for your concerns for your business that is all within your reach and your control. Nobody can take a skill away from you. I also sincerely hope for your dog's sake that you never do anything that puts you out of the scene to care for them and be around them. Even if you get into trouble I hope that it is similar to being grounded LOL. I would get a back up attorney anyways just in case.


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## IRISH (Sep 13, 2008)

sweeet. wtg bro. hoping theres reprimands' all around for the overzealous ones. at least that black mark on thier records' when it comes to pay hike increases'...


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## snuggles (Sep 13, 2008)

Case is over my lawyer got me off.  And no I don't live in a small town, I live right outside Philly, in a dry county next to a majorly bad city also south of Philly. I guess it was the way I looked and they can run my plates and then my record, never trust them and never assume they will help you if you help them. My lawyer was telling me that roughly $3000USD goes to the arresting police stations here in PA, kinda like drug arrests and grant money gained that way. Keep in mind ever arrest has some sort of monetary benefit or "promotional" benefit to the men in blue. I have learned my lesson though, I vacuum my car and clean it once a week, I was stupid for having a messy car and not looking clean cut. I was just happy it was dismissed cause the cops were intimidating bullies and jackarses for doing what they did.

EDIT: woops I meant to say 3k goes to the arresting station for a DUI.


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## Hick (Sep 13, 2008)

Glad to have you back in full swing bro'


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## Dubbaman (Sep 13, 2008)

:woohoo: glad to hear that the bear is back, and ready to get them salmon when they are headed upstream


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## Dozingoffaroundthecorner (Sep 14, 2008)

They didn't make a dime off you and lost a lot of money. That's why it would have been more profitable and time efficient to give you the paraphernalia ticket. Since it was a bogus search anyways maybe they could not have gotten away with it but you would have happily paid 500 USD instead of all that mess or at least I would have! That's how stupid that crap is though. It cost them as much as it cost you. It's kind of ridiculous when police departments like that need money more than they need trouble. They have a quota to meet at the end of each month.


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## HippyInEngland (Sep 14, 2008)

Congrats Snuggles, I imagine its a huge relief 

All this crap and you were being the good guy!!


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## jao33333 (Sep 14, 2008)

Good for you Snuggles !!!! The most important thing of all YOU DIDN'T DRINK,  With all my heart I am Proud of you. I myself  a recovering alcoholic that has been sober for 7 years  you did GOOD !!!!  Any time you need to talk never hesitate TC JJ


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## Ilikebigbuds (Sep 14, 2008)

didn't I tell you it would all work out?

I know these things!LOL:holysheep: 

I am so very glad you came out of this with more awareness.

still- I know how you feel, just having to go thru it all felt like a violation to your personal self.

been there. 

cant wait to see your garden! I have seen your green thumb!


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## BBFan (Sep 22, 2008)

Congratulations Snuggles.  Maybe there are good people on the other side too. - Good lawyer and good judge.  Congrats again


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## godspeedsuckah (Sep 23, 2008)

Glad to hear you are well bro.


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