# first time set-up  tent/LED good sources for accesseries?



## newanimal (Jan 15, 2014)

hello all. Finally decided on first grow set-up. Got a 5x5x7 ft tent coming and
900W LED from G8
I'm seeking tips/suggestions on the right equipment for this set-up and good sources for stuff.
Not sure how much A/C i will be needing due to low heat LED. But i do plan on experimenting with combination lighting systems down the road i.e. fluoros along sides with LED overhead.   
i'll be doing soil to begin and graduate to hydro later so i'm not worrying about the hydro accessories at this point

inline exhaust fan/filter? (6" duct  450/500 cfm?)
still need portable a/c?
1 OR 2 oscillating fans?
yo-yo pulley
CO2 (i may need to close doors during lighting periods)
ph tester  
timer for lights 
4x4 flood basin

thanks for any suggestions/pointers


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## pcduck (Jan 16, 2014)

You wasted your money on the LED. You will not get the harvest that you want.
yo-yo's are also junk, use rope pulleys.With CO2 a grower really needs a few grows under their belt to have it be effective.


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 16, 2014)

Im pro LEDs and im fairly sure that unit will not light 5 x 5 tent properly...


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## newanimal (Jan 16, 2014)

thanks for the feeback.

I dont necessarily intend to max out the 5x5 with the 900w led with my first grows. Might keep it at 16 sq ft. Like i said, I'll be experimenting with combo lighting systems later i.e. add some vertical CFL's (or?) in the midst for 360 degree radiation. Add a couple red ufo's for flowering, etc.  
Would like to do a vertical hydro grow down the road i.e. a 3 tier pvc 4x4 square or octagonal (not with the led panel of course) which could fit within the 5x5 tent. Just lookn' ahead to accommodate  the future.
As for LED, after a lot of research, I decided if a lot of converts from HID to LED turn out to be lying, delusional, or secret agents for companies, i can at least have a good veg room right? A significant reduction of kwh's @ 18/6. 
Anycase, gotta get a few grows under my belt...thanks mates


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 17, 2014)

It is awfully tough to just use a 4 x 4 section of a 5 x 5 tent.  The light is going to disburse throughout the tent, so even if you only have plants in a 4 x 4 space, you are still lighting a 5 x 5 space.  I recommend getting a tent sized for the lights you plan on using.  CFLs are the least efficient of all the lights we use to grow.  Lumen for lumen, they generally cost more to purchase initially, the cost almost twice as much to run, they run hotter, and they produce substantially less bud.  IMO, using CFLs to supplement a LED grow defeats the purpose of using LED in the first place.

I would also forget the CO2.  You would need to do far more than simply close the door during lights on.  Your room needs to be sealed, you need enhanced lumens, you need to coordinate ventilation with CO2 usage, you need to monitor and regulate CO2.  

Also, regarding vegging time--IMO, the best light schedule is always--24/7.  Marijuana is in a class of plants that does not need a rest.  It will grow all the time there is light, food, water, and fresh air.  Running your ights 18/6 encourages stretching and extends the veg time.


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## newanimal (Jan 18, 2014)

that was very useful HG. Thanks!
It's stated that the G8-900w full spectrum panel (3w chipsets) are good for 25 sq ft
and comparable to 1400w hps in PAR light. Now... I realize LED brands were prone to overstate their claims such as doubling the wattage equivalent of hps to led. but this particular claim didnt sound so unrealistic to me.  But then Im a newbe with no experience, just trying to use common sense while gathering all the research and testimonies I can from real growers.
But I got the 5x5 comin' so... if it turns out the 900 watter is inadequate I'll need to consider a few options--- how much more led wattage would I need?
OR HO t5? (notice Im trying to avoid the real heat producing juice suckers) 
OR why not install a couple interior wall panels to reduce the grow space to 4x4, providing all venting still works and I can access the plants.
Of course I can exchange the 5x5 for the 4x4 (please dont tell me the 900 wouldn't suffice for a 4x4 either) but I need to be convinced that the 900w led mentioned above is definitely underpowerd overrated or
would not do 25sq  with a little supplemental help. 

regarding CO2-- i understand the relationship between lumens and co2 supplementing and good monitoring, venting coordination. I guess the question is will I be creating enough light intensity to benefit from it. 
Crap...i wouldn't just open the valve and walk away

I understand 24/7 optimum for veg. Just dont know what the elect meter going to do yet. LED (with correct placement) reduces stretching from what I hear.


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## newanimal (Jan 18, 2014)

ok. Research continues. Canceled the G8-900w. Concluded that spreading out multiple smaller units will provide better coverage. Also better manufacturers out there with much more efficient band width targeting. More bux of course.
Better yield and quality though.
probably go with a 4x4 tent.


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## WeedHopper (Jan 19, 2014)

Will be watchen. Might wanna check out Marijuana-Culture.com because this forum is going down very very soon and your grow journal will be lost.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 21, 2014)

My friend, let me give you some perspective on the lighting and cost of lighting. In many places around the U.S. electricity averages 11cents per kilowatt hour. If you were to get and use the 900watt LED, which we are fairly certain will not give you the production you want(during flower but may work well for veg), It will cost you $74.76 for a 6 week veg period running 18/6. The 18/6 cycle is well known to cause stretching so if you ran it on a 24hr schedule it would cost $99.79 for the same 6 week veg period.

I am not sure what the G8 Led costs but for around $350 or less, you can get a 1000w MH/HPS light fixture with ballast that is interchangeable with the MH and HPS bulbs and has the whole enclosed, vented reflector. The 1kHID fixture will do everything you need for a 5x5 from veg to flower.

The cost for running the 1kHID for the same 6 week vegging period is $83.16 for the 18/6 and $110.88 for 24hr lighting. The 24hr cost will be cut in half during the flowering period as you only run the lighting 12/12.
The money that you save on the LED can be used to buy the ventilation system that you will have to have anyway to bring fresh air to the plants


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## newanimal (Jan 21, 2014)

Thanks for your input HP, I'm a beginner here for sure on the learning curve. I respect the knowledge and experience of both hid and led camps. I've determined thus far that the G8-900 watt unit is over hyped and overpriced and probably not the most efficient design. Also, I believe those are nominal watts not actual. In any case, I've decided to construct my own LED arrays at a fraction of the cost and, done right hopefully, should be more efficient  than hyped marketed LED units. Also can custom design for my grow space and method. With no experience in either hid or led,  I intuit the best I can from accumulated research and for my personal scale and most likely grow method,  I still lean towards LED. Who knows, maybe i'll end up with HPS for flower in the end, time will tell.

na


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## newanimal (Jan 21, 2014)

Forgot to add, some persuasive info from LED do-it-yourselfer's and growers (not product peddlers) assure that a 500 watt properly made LED array with proper spectrum focusing can grow the hell out of a 5'x5' space. Whatever growth stage. I'm not rooting for ball teams here, just open minded and seeking real facts and science.  We'll see


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 22, 2014)

Please take and post pics if you decide to build your own...  would love to compare the design with others Ive seen made...


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 22, 2014)

I understand. I wanted to give you some more perspective to work with as it is easy to look at growing from limited perspective and not realize how involved it is.  If LEDs are the way you want to go, I say go for it and see what happens. You may get a killer setup that does what you need. I looked into doing a DIY LED myself as I am an electronics tech but even the components are rather expensive to put together what I wanted to do. I decided that I would rather experiment with MJ than the LEDs. But if that is your interest, it is certainly doable, and I hope to see your DIY light setup and your grow over the course of it.


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## lovedenugs (Jan 22, 2014)

hey animal, i have seen a couple great grows from LED so i say go for it man.
may i suggest though that you get  foxfarms oceanic soil.  i have had a couple of my friends say its the best way to go. also had a friend say that coco works wonders with led for some reason


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 22, 2014)

newanimal said:
			
		

> Forgot to add, some persuasive info from LED do-it-yourselfer's and growers (not product peddlers) assure that a 500 watt properly made LED array with proper spectrum focusing can grow the hell out of a 5'x5' space. Whatever growth stage. I'm not rooting for ball teams here, just open minded and seeking real facts and science.  We'll see



Can you direct us to some of these.  I personally have not actually seen anything that makes me believe that LEDs are the way to grow right now (maybe in the future).  PJ has done well, but I'm pretty sure he is running close to 1000W for a 5 x 5 area.


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## lovedenugs (Jan 22, 2014)

hemp i can give you links to youtube vids of really great led grows. and best thing about leds are there are no heat signatures just incase theres a bacon mobeel in the sky.


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## WeedHopper (Jan 22, 2014)

Heat sig means very little unless they are already on to you,,then it aint gonna matter which your using,,cause they already know to much or the woulnt be sending expensive Aircraft over the house.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 23, 2014)

You tube has some really good anecdotal videos where you can see some things done that are described by highly experienced growers, but it is so easy for people to control what you see in a video that I don't trust them for something like grow evidence. A grow journal where pics or vids are done constantly to follow a comparison grow from start to finish is more reliable that a video that shows a completed grow that "was grown under this light system from start to finish".

Not saying that it isn't doable, but I follow the idiom that if it seems too good to be true, then it most likely is. That doesn't mean that I totally discount what is said, I just don't bite the worm until I have made sure there is no hook in it.


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## WeedHopper (Jan 23, 2014)

:yeahthat:


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## newanimal (Jan 23, 2014)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Can you direct us to some of these.  I personally have not actually seen anything that makes me believe that LEDs are the way to grow right now (maybe in the future).  PJ has done well, but I'm pretty sure he is running close to 1000W for a 5 x 5 area.


I haven't personally seen either, aside from the youtube vids documenting grows mentioned by 'nugs. And encouraging things I hear from a respected tech/grower who makes his own LED arrays (another forum), whence the 5x5/500W paraphrase. Granted it's  hear say at this point.
Some good youtube vids on DIY LED grow lights out there. Not that difficult.
Maybe a little tedious, but I can handle a little tedium to save a grand and wind up with a more efficient mean n lean unit. But just gathering info at this stage. 

Looked for a thread or posts by "PJ" on a 5x5 led grow but couldn't locate.
could someone direct me ?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 23, 2014)

I just don't trust stuff on You Tube for all the reasons stated above.  I hate to say it, but to use You Tube as a source of reliable information is a mistake.  I know for positive that some grows are "faked".  And there really is no way of knowing if the people who post the videos are LED salespeople or not (I suspect that a whole lot of them ARE LED peddlers).  I can do tedious work too if I am going to save a bundle, but I don't believe that you can, even when you make your own panels.  One of the peeps here made his own panels and they cost huge amounts, even when built from scratch.  I'm curious how do you figure that you are going to save a grand?  You can set up a 5 x 5 tent with a 1000W HPS and all the ventilation for under a grand.  And until someone I trust can show me what they can do, I will stick to the tried and true.  I simply do not have enough money to sink a grand or more into a lighting system that is questionable.  At this point in time, I see the reduced heat as the only true advantage.  However where I live, the heat is a bonus about 5 months out of the year and if I personally was using LEDs, I would have to add space heaters to my rooms, even when the lights were on.  

The heat signature thing is a non-issue.  regardless of what "propaganda" you may have heard, helicopters do not just run around looking for small grows.  People get busted because of loose lips or not taking care of odor or growing debris  

I'm not sure if PJ specifically mentioned using a 5 x 5 space, but I think that he is swapping out 1000W HPS for 1000W LEDs.  I don't think that LEDs enable you to actually use less wattage or at least not that much less.  I do know that PJ had his lights custom made by a company in China and they were quite costy.  He is the only one I know that has really done anything great with LEDS....and he didn't do it cheaply.  I'll see if I can find some of his posts.  He is quite knowledgeable.  I'll also look for the one where the guy built his own panels.  However, I don't remember ever seeing any pics of his grow.  PJ does have great pics of his grows.


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## WeedHopper (Jan 23, 2014)

Im with THG.
I have yet to see an LED grow from start to finish,,even by PJ. Ive seen the what they call the results,,but no real proof. And im not saying PJ cant grow Dank with LEDS,,I dont know PJ personally to have seen these grows. But if ya have lots of money and want to Test Leds,,go for it.
What results I have seen from LEDS,,didnt look very Dense to me,,not even as Dense as what I got with HOT5s. But hey,,ya just never know till ya try. I dont have that kinda money to prove someone wrong or right on their claims. What I do know is,,I have seen Tons of Dank Killer Dense Buds grown with HPS. I will stick with Facts,,cause im to cheap to do anything else,,but facts. Course thats why I am an Athiest,,I want Facts.


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## newanimal (Jan 23, 2014)

Yep, I'd pretty surprised if at least some youtube dems' were not put up by peddlers. I wouldn't rely on those alone.
Here's some bits of information I've been able to gather so far that I would place in the Fact, not hype category that influences me to give a home made LED array a go for the grow style I intend to do which is SOG for best yield and turnover in a smallish tent.

First off, I understand most LED brands are competing in a 'band width' war to appeal to the uneducated consumer with a 'more is better' mentality ("full-spectrum" "8 band widths" etc.), but it's my understanding that the true PAR wave lengths for cannabis remain to be only 2 to 5 MAX, but mostly in the red, blue spectrums, maybe a little supplementation white, IR for budding, dont even know for sure about that.  So this marketing band # hype is defeating the purpose of LED philosophy to begin with. 

2. LEDS dont penetrate like HIDs. SOG does NOT require very deep penetration. 

3. 1 watt LED chips dont penetrate as well as 3 watt chips. So it's popular to be going with 3 watts or higher chips these days. However, 1 watt bulbs have much more efficient use of energy than 3 watt bulbs. The 1W bulb penetration is a bit more than sufficient  for  SOG. So a 200W array of 1W LEDs' would have three times the bulbs as a 200w panel with less efficient 3 watt bulbs.    

4. You can mount a bunch of LED's on a thrift store cookie sheet, provide mounting for necessary components. Plants dont care about pretty housings. All they know is they're getting the spectrum light they want. 

I'm not a high tech guy, i know some basics, but so far it looks good on paper to me.


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## lovedenugs (Jan 23, 2014)

http://youtu.be/X5lKfc0O57o here theres great vid of what led's. yea there are alot of fakes but this is obviously not...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 23, 2014)

lovedenugs said:
			
		

> http://youtu.be/X5lKfc0O57o here theres great vid of what led's. yea there are alot of fakes but this is obviously not...



I'm not sure what you are basing that supposition on, but there really is no way to know whether a video is genuine.


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## newanimal (Jan 23, 2014)

well... I notice my impatience growing and wanting to get growing sooner then later. I'm 'considering' starting off with an HID set up and venture into LEDs later as I need more time to get it all together. 
Already have the 5x5 so that means 1K HPS i guess. Not sure If i would veg with MH or HO t5. Im concerned about heat management (and bills). Will it be necessary to use air cooled glass enclosed reflectors in the 5x5 or might good exhaust/fan possibly do it. Need to add some a/c? (This will not be a sealed/co2 system at this point anyway). Ambient temps in my area are moderate most of the year but summers can will exceed 100. I would  reverse the light/dark cycle to to night/day. 
This would be good experience to see what HID does and later on compare with LED when ready. Hell, I could use a little grow experience with anything really. 
any advice appreciated

thanks


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 24, 2014)

newanimal said:
			
		

> Looked for a thread or posts by "PJ" on a 5x5 led grow but couldn't locate.
> could someone direct me ?



PJs grows are no longer public...   he did post here but with all the LED doubters   he stopped bc they just cant accept FACTS...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 24, 2014)

JAAM, we are only LED doubters because so many of the LED salespeople truly lie about what their products can do and they have been hyped to do unbelievable things.  PJ is virtually the only person that I know and trust that has done anything at all with LEDs.  Others start grows with LEDs and then we never hear from them again.  And I know that PJ said had them built custom to his specs in China somewhere and they were very expensive.  

LEDs are not some miracle lighting discovery that is going to give you more yield with 1/2 the wattage.  People just need to be smart about them and not buy into all the garbage that is on places like You Tube and not buy into all the (false) hype created by people selling these.  A 90W UFO will not take the place of a 400W HPS no matter how you do it.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 24, 2014)

If you want to get started and have somewhat limited funds, you can start with this light fixture: hXXp://www.hpsgrowlightstore.com/hps1510/best-grow-light-systems/1000-watt-grow-light-sets/ipower-grow-light-1000w-hps-mh-dimmable-cool-tube-xl-set.html  With this fixture, you get both the MH and HPS bulbs to go with the fixture, so the single fixture can be used to do the initial veg with the MH and then switch to HPS for flowering. This fixture is very good (I had 6 of these in my setup). The MH bulb is actually made to produce 6000k light rather than the typical 5000k light of other MH bulbs. This is important for veg growth as MJ does best during veg with light frequency between 6000-6500k. 

You will have to vent this fixture to the outside of the space as the 1kw HID does produce a lot of heat. I live in the south-east and it can get quite hot here in the summer. But I found that by pulling fresh air into my building from under it and then using a good 540cfm 6" centrifugal exhaust fan to pull the heated air out of my building to the outside, I could keep my grow quite comfortable throughout the winter. I do require the use of AC during the summer though. You will have to have good ventilation anyway for the plants to have proper fresh air flow as this brings in co2 and keeps moisture from building up and causing mold. 

Here is the exhaust fan that you will need: hXXp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/vortex-6-inch-449-cfm-high-power-inline-fan-p-353.html
This is one of the best fans on the market for the price.
Here is the filter that you will need if you want to keep the smell of your plants from getting out to anyone you don't want knowing that you are growing: hXXp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/phresh-filter-6in-x-24in-virgin-carbon-p-3423.html
You will be able to use this filter for at least a couple years before having to replace it.
You can get good flex hose from the local home builder supply to connect the fixture, filter, and fan together. 
Since you already have the tent, this will get you going for the first grow and future grows depending on how you want to do things, and how fast and how much you are looking to produce in a year's time.


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## newanimal (Jan 24, 2014)

thanks for those links. That light fixture package looks like a good buy.
I might splurge a little more for a Panasonic Whisperline fan though for quieter running.

If I decide to get set up and jump into trying SOG grow, putting plants into 12/12 flower after only a few weeks, not sure if I'll need HID for the pre-flower stage. Maybe T5's or a 200W ufo (I picked up for $30) or both. 
And would that suffice to keep a few mothers in veg I dunno.
I'm open for any feedback there. 

Still trying to research suitable a/c for this tent. I'd like to keep the unit outside the tent and duct it in. Sounds like mini-split systems are the best way to go but hard to find anything below 12000 or 9000 btu's. Sounds a little overkill. they can be pricey too.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 25, 2014)

When starting from seed, the plants are going to need to reach sexual maturity before they start flowering.  it is actually rather counterproductive to do plants from seed like this with little to no veg period.  When you put them into flowering before they are sexually mature, they do not start flowering, they stretch.  If you want to run SOG, I would suggest that you do your first runs the normal way and take clones.  Clones are biologically the same age as the mother they came from, so even if they are smaller, they will flower when put into 12/12.  

I also never keep mothers as I simply do not have the room.  And unless you want multiple tents, you will probably find that you do not have room to keep mothers either.  I take clones from clones and have done this for many many years.

I also do not run A/C with my grows.  I have an air cooled hood and am able to pull cool air in from my crawl space that is cool enough to keep the light and room below 80.  I have gotten where I run my flowering lights at night most of the time--midnight to noon.  This helps with hot summer time days, but also in the winter because not as much extra heat needs to be provided during lights out to keep your space warm enough.

Check out amazon for lighting and fans.


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## WeedHopper (Jan 25, 2014)

Hey THG do you filter the air before it comes in from the crawl space?


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## newanimal (Jan 25, 2014)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> When starting from seed, the plants are going to need to reach sexual maturity before they start flowering.  it is actually rather counterproductive to do plants from seed like this with little to no veg period.  When you put them into flowering before they are sexually mature, they do not start flowering, they stretch.  If you want to run SOG, I would suggest that you do your first runs the normal way and take clones.  Clones are biologically the same age as the mother they came from, so even if they are smaller, they will flower when put into 12/12.
> 
> I also never keep mothers as I simply do not have the room.  And unless you want multiple tents, you will probably find that you do not have room to keep mothers either.  I take clones from clones and have done this for many many years.
> 
> ...


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 26, 2014)

Remember that vegging plants don't take but about half  to 2/3 the space of flowering plants. In a 5x5 tent, I normally run just 4-5 plants and allow them to get upwards of 4-5ft high by the time they are finished. I generally veg them until they are about 15-20" tall while Fimming them to make them bush out more (sativa/Indica hybrids only as pure Indica dominant structure plants don't do well with bushing techniques) 

Once they have bushed out to desired width and height, I set them into flower and space them equally. I also like to place a screen of some type over them to support the branches as the buds grow and get heavy.

In the smaller veg tent, you can use less light. Most of us generally use T5HO fixtures and try to achieve a minimum of 3000 lumens per square foot of lighted space


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 27, 2014)

Weedhopper, I have filter material over all my intake holes, so not really filtered, but this stops the dirt and any creepy crawlies that may want in that way.

Newanimal, I really like having a separate vegging space.  My vegging space is only 2 x 4, but since I do a perpetual harvest, it is enough room to have 6 or so plants of varying size in there.  I usually do 8 or so in the 3 x 6 space.  My veggging space is only 4' tall so they do go into flowering before they get too tall.  I use a T5 in my vegging space and a 1000W in my flowering space.


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## CasualGrower (Mar 7, 2014)

Just curious....  (have not read the entire thread)....  are you stuck with a 5x5 area????  or is this still adjustable???   could do a 3x6 (1 less sq foot) run a pair of 400W HPS....  Fully light the area....  Using less power...   and cost of fixture would be a LOT less....  Something to think about....


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