# Opinions about this hydro method



## Surfer Joe (Nov 1, 2013)

I saw a setup in the store with a 7 L mesh bucket filled with clay balls and suspended in a 10 L bucket about 2/3 full of nutrient solution with an air pump air stone in the water making lots of bubbles. The shop guy lifted the mesh bucket and showed me all of the roots of the tomato plant that was growing in the mesh bucket were sticking out through the mesh into the bubbling water.
I don't recall what he called this method of hydro growing, but he said that it was very trouble-free and you didn't have to worry about watering soil pots every day.
I wondered if it was a good method for growing pot since I thought that it's not a good idea for the roots to always be wet. Also, would it be hard to get a small pot plant to sit securely in the clay balls?
I would like to try this out as it seems like a very simple and low tech way of growing hydro method, but I would appreciate any advice or opinions about how good it might be for growing a pot plant.
Thanks for any advice.


----------



## Growdude (Nov 1, 2013)

Search DWC , direct water culture. lots of easy homemade systems out there.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 1, 2013)

Thanks. I looked it up and it looks good.
It seems that since the roots can grow down into the liquid, the overall size of the mesh bucket is not so important.
Do you think it's good for pot plants?
Does it have any drawbacks?


----------



## WeedHopper (Nov 1, 2013)

Growdude,,Is that Direct,, or Deep Water Culture.


----------



## Dr. Green Fang (Nov 1, 2013)

It's Deep Water Culture, I do believe.


----------



## Growdude (Nov 1, 2013)

thanks guys


----------



## trillions of atoms (Nov 2, 2013)

Use the lids with the built in netpots!


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 2, 2013)

Well, I took the plunge. 
I got two 12 L buckets with 8-inch mesh pot inserts and an air pump and clay balls.
I'm not sure if the pots are too large. The buckets came with tiny three-inch mesh pots but they looked too small so I got bigger ones, but when I look at videos of setups, the pots don't seem to be too big and yet the plants seem to be pretty big. I guess that since the roots can grow out, the pot size is not important.
I got an air pump that does 400L/H for each bucket, but the bubble flow doesn't seem excessively vigorous, and I don't know what sort of L/H air flow one should use for a 12L bucket, or if there can be too much air flow in the water and harm the roots.

I can't use it until my current grow is done, which will be about 3-4 weeks to harvest, so in the meantime I need to study up about the setups and feeding.
I am already confused when I read a hydro grow journal and people talk about EC and ppm, as well as PH. I just got my head around PH!

I want to find the best nutrient products to use with my bubble pots. 
My setup doesn't include the water pump to flow water into the pot, which is what some of the bubble pot videos I've seen have. It's just the pot above the water and the roots in the aerated water. I used to raise fish and I still have a lot of water pumps, so I might see about rigging up the water pump part if I find out that might be a better approach. Those fish water pumps are pretty powerful, and I don't know what sort of water flow is used in bubble pots. I would think that it should be closer to a drip than a flow.

If anyone can please suggest a few good grow bibles or other info, I would be grateful.


----------



## crazdad777 (Nov 2, 2013)

HTG.com there big boy system is awesome I am using it now...u start with six buckets and can go up to 18...its fun to use check it out 370.00 shipped


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 2, 2013)

It is not that difficult.  EC and ppms refer to the Electrical Conductivity (amount of dissolved solids) in a liquid.  Basically it measures the strength of your nutrient solution.  Likewise, pH is not that complicated.  PH affects nutrient uptake and must be kept within certain levels for the plant to use the available food.  It is also important to be aware of the ppms as a nutrient solution that is too high can have adverse, almost immediate effects in hydro.  This though is my favorite way to grow.

I wouldn't worry about using water pumps with your setup.  Aerating the nute solution will be sufficient.  Also, water pumps can raise the temperature of your nute solution enough that you need a chiller to keep them within bounds.

I use General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow for vegging.  I use GH Flora Series (not the Nova line) Micro and Bloom for flowering, using the Lucas formula


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 2, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> It is not that difficult.  EC and ppms refer to the Electrical Conductivity (amount of dissolved solids) in a liquid.  Basically it measures the strength of your nutrient solution.  Likewise, pH is not that complicated.  PH affects nutrient uptake and must be kept within certain levels for the plant to use the available food.  It is also important to be aware of the ppms as a nutrient solution that is too high can have adverse, almost immediate effects in hydro.  This though is my favorite way to grow.
> 
> I wouldn't worry about using water pumps with your setup.  Aerating the nute solution will be sufficient.  Also, water pumps can raise the temperature of your nute solution enough that you need a chiller to keep them within bounds.
> 
> I use General Hydroponics Flora Nova Grow for vegging.  I use GH Flora Series (not the Nova line) Micro and Bloom for flowering, using the Lucas formula



Thanks a lot.
I am also very attracted to the bubble pot method. It seems very low tech yet hydroponics seems very sophisticated. 
I also don't want to get involved in the more complicated setups like ebb and flow to grow a couple of plants but I would like to improve my results with soil.

I suppose that I should get a ppm and ec meters? 
I already have a digital ph meter that seems to work well.
With pH, I know to use pH up or down to adjust the pH, but what do you do about the ec or the ppms? Do you adjust them like pH?


----------



## Hushpuppy (Nov 2, 2013)

Hi Surfer Joe; Don't let ppm, ec, and PH confuse you. They are not as difficult and confusing as they seem to be. It is just a matter of getting familiar with them and learning what to expect from them.
As THG said, ec and ppm are for checking the level of nutrients that are dissolved in the water. They both are the same thing but check the nutrients in a little different way. Some people use the ec meter as they say it is more accurate but many use ppm meters without issue. I use ppm as that is just what I got used to using. Get you a nice Hanna ppm or ec meter, they are relatively cheap and reliable.

You don't adjust TDS (this is the total dissolved solids that give you ec or ppm). ec and ppm are measures of the TDS. If you start with pure H2O such as in distilled water, your ppm or ec meter will read either 0.0 or very close to it because there are no dissolved minerals in the water. When you mix up nutrients in this water you will then be able to get a reading on the scale or the meters according to how much nutrients you put in.

In hydro, you will mix nutrients into the water for the plants (starting when they are several weeks old from seedling, or when they have become well rooted from clone). The bubbling action does 2 things. It aerates the water so that there is a lot of oxygen present in the water (which keeps the roots from drowning being constantly submerged in water), and it causes the water to splash up onto the netpot when the plants are young and the roots haven't begun to reach down into the water. The clay pebbles absorb this water that is splashed up onto it so that the roots of the smaller plant can get to it.

For feeding in hydro, many people really like the results of using General Hydroponics' Flora 3part nutrient. The 3 parts are mixed in ratio to each other into the solution. This ratio changes as the plants grow and change in needs. Using the ppm/ec meter will allow you to monitor and adjust this ratio as needed throughout the life cycle of the MJ plant. For example; I use Advanced Nutrients Jungle Juice 3part, which is very similar to the GH 3part. I generally begin my seedlings using only 1ml of each of the 3 parts per 1 gallon of water. This gives me a ppm reading or about 350ppm (not sure what that is on ec as I haven't used ec before). As the plants grow, I raise the ppm to 450 then 550 then 650 and so on up to my max nute charge during the vegging period (which can be from 650 for light eating sativas to 950 for heavy eating indicas). I typically will raise the ppm by equally raising the milliliters per gallon during the vegging period, and I raise them each week when the plants are growing well until I get to the max feeding for veg.

Then during the flowering period, I will change the ratio to serve the plant during its bud building stage. I no longer use equal portions or each of the 3 nute parts. Now I raise the Micro and Bloom while lowering the Grow each week until there is no longer any Grow being used and the Micro and Bloom are high enough to get the TDS to around 1200ppm for light eaters, to 1400 for heavier eaters. 

At all times when feeding in hydro, the PH has to be maintained in a balance where it is best for the plants. This is a range that goes from 5.3 up to 6.2 with the ideal number being 5.8 for plants in hydro. As all of the chemical nutrients are made up of elements that can range in alkalinity and acidity, The ratio of the nute parts and their ratio to the water will all affect the level of the PH at the initial solution setup. Then as the plants drink water and take up nutrients (never in equal amounts) the PH will "drift" or "swing" as the ratios change. Some of the nutrient brands have "buffers" in them to help stabilize the PH. Some nutes like my Jungle Juice don't have buffers so I have to do the adjusting myself.

This may sound complicated but it really isn't. We can walk you through it when you get going, so don't be afraid to ask questions.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 2, 2013)

Thank you very much. That was very informative.
How do you learn all that? Are there any good books or other sources that you could recommend? 
I have been reading quite a few hydro grow articles and I don't run across such information.
My air pump doesn't seem to splash much water up into the mesh pot. I had the water set almost touching the bottom of the mesh pot and the water bubbles around but doesn't really create splashing. It's a 400L/H pump but I saw some that were rated at 20 to 40L/Minute. What size air pump would you suggest for a 12L bucket?
I also noticed that people plant the seeds in rock wool and then place it in the clay pebbles rather than remove the plant from the wool and put it into the clay balls. I thought that having the rock wool around the plant would cause stems to always be moist and harm the plant.
There's a lot to learn.


----------



## sunakard2000 (Nov 2, 2013)

nope the rockwool is ok to leave on infact you shouldnt take it off as you can tare off the very fine root hairs that are growing in it, plus the rockwool cube helps keep the plant stable inside the netpot with the hydroton, trust me the first time i ran a DWC i made the mistake of simply getting a taproot and sticking it into my bubble cloner until it had roots then into the hydroton in the mesh pot, that was stupid, the plant was so darn hard to keep standing up streight but at the time i thought you didnt use any starter plugs/cubes lol novice grower times, just the gently breeze from my fan was enough to make the plant sway for about 3 weeks before the plant had a beastly hold in the pot then it didnt move much, but again as i said that was stupid, id advise using something like a rockwool cube or rapid rooter as it helps with keeping the plant steady while its still young.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 3, 2013)

When my plants are small without good root growth yet, I keep the water level at the bottom of the net pots.  As the roots grow into the solution, I lower the level of the nute solution so that about 1/2 of the root mass is submerged.  I don't know that you need to have enough water movement so that it actually creates splashing--you just need good aerated water for DWC.

While Hushpuppy says that you don't adjust tds, in essence you do.  The meter is used to measure the strength of the solution.  You adjust the levels by the amount of nutrients you use. 

I also don't use as complicated nute regime as Hushpuppoy.  I run a 1 part nute during veg and then in flowering, I simply switch to flowering nutes.  I also raise the ppms faster in veg and usually max out closer to 1200 or 1300 than 950.  I feed my plants all the nutrients they want. 

When starting from seed, you need them in some kind of medium--you cannot start them in hydrotron.  The seed would just get lost in there somewhere.  Trying to remove the rockwool would likely kill the seedling.  I personally prefer Rapid Rooters over rockwool for seeds.  I often clone in a bubble cloner with no medium and therefore, my clones are not in any kind of medium.  Unlike sunakard, I have not had problems keeping the plant in the hydrotron without the use of rockwool.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 3, 2013)

Thank you.
Apparently there are a range of opinions and techniques that take time to learn, and different strains seem to need slightly different approaches, but I really want to give it a try.
I am going to visit Holland next month for a conference and while I'm there, I will visit some seed shop grow rooms and try to research as much as I can about hydro methods. Maybe they'll have some books to buy or at least I can pick their brains for a while.
I returned my first air pump that was 400L/H for one that is 30L/Min. The difference in the effect was amazing.
I haven't yet started anything because I need to finish my soil grown plants in their little clay pots, but I can't wait to get started.
This forum has been very helpful.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Nov 3, 2013)

There are books that you can get and read that are helpful, but don't try to find the right answer as there isn't one right answer or one right way to grow MJ. Just about every person you meet who grows MJ will do it a little differently. Over time you will learn the nuances of growing MJ and you will be able to recognize that each method used by different people is one that is personalized to match the person and the environment. Don't take any one method as gospel but rather find one that works for you and fits what you want out of growing. You will most likely find that most of the successful growers have many of the finer tuning methods and basic principals of growing that are the same with only certain aspects being different to match either the person, environment, and/or the strains of plants being grown.

As The Hemp Goddess said, she does things a little differently than I do but we both have very successful grows using similar hydroponics methods. The best thing to do is to look at all of the different ways while you are waiting to get started and try to determine the pros and cons of each of these for you. Then when you get ready to begin, set up with one style and follow that style without changes for at least one full grow so that you can see how well it works for you. Then if you want to try something a little different, or totally different, try it from the beginning of the next grow. The worst thing you can do is jump around with different styles and methods while in the middle of a grow, as that can be problematic.

Don't let all of the information confuse you, its really not as much as it seems.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 3, 2013)

Thank you. I hope that it doesn't take too many grows before I can figure out how to get results like I see from people on the forum!
I have been studying the pros and cons of the method I plan to use, and one consensus seems to be that growing in buckets with just an air pump will require more hands on attention because the amount of liquid used is relatively small and the balance can shift rather quickly. I have been considering getting a large plastic storage box with lid and cutting two (maybe 3) holes in the lid for the mesh pots rather than doing individual buckets. The idea is to have a larger reservoir of liquid that won't get used up so fast. On the other hand, I read that grouping plants means that if there is a problem in the system, it will quickly affect all of the plants.
Do you think that using individual buckets rather than one larger container for 2 or 3 plants is better for a novice? 
The buckets are 12L each and the larger container would be around 40+ L, so there would be a bigger reservoir for the plants to share.


----------



## pcduck (Nov 3, 2013)

I grew in 5 gallon buckets. 1 plant per bucket.
The hardest thing for me was changing out the nute solution. 
I purchased an $8 battery operated kerosene pump. Was a piece of cake after that. Just be sure to research your nutes.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 9, 2013)

Thanks. I've seen several containers in the 40 to 50 L size, but they vary a lot in dimensions. 
Would a taller container be better for root growth than a shallower one, or is it better to have a bigger, shallower shape?
I don't want the roots to get stunted by too shallow a space or get tangled up together if the container is too small in length/width.
The buckets I have are about 30cm tall and the mesh pots going in them are about 6 inches wide and 6 inches tall.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Nov 9, 2013)

Using the buckets or using larger containers really depends on your space limitations. I personally prefer to use larger totes and connect them together so that they share a large reservoir among them. This does have its issues as well. Any way you go will have some difficulties or issues that have to be dealt with. It depends on you really. I have used many different hydro methods and my system slowly morphed out of my changing it to match my unique situation, and my personal likes.

I didn't like having to deal with multiple individual hydro systems as that made it too work intensive for my bad back. I also have a short memory and it was easy for me to forget to check all of the individual units.

Having a larger integrated system has its issues as well; what happens to one will affect all of the plants equally. An integrated system isn't flexible enough to shift plants around or raise and lower individual plants to equalize the canopy. But I found that having the integrated system in a 5'x5' tent worked very well for me. In the 5'x5' space, I had 5 plastic/rubber totes, each held roughly 66liters of volume, but I didn't put that much into them. 

By connecting them with large diameter hoses (or pvc pipe), I could provide a 100liter reservoir to them and have 4 plants in that space (which would produce average 20oz harvest). The 5th tote in the group was my reservoir tote that I didn't put a plant in so that I could access the water for adjusting the PH, adding or removing solution from the system, and just monitoring the solution without having to lift plants.

MJ is a very versatile plant and can grow in many different setups. There are endless variations to my type of integrated setup that allow it to be used in any space, but it is a DIY setup that has to be built in place to match the space. If you would like individual help with doing this particular type of setup, I would be happy to help you. Just PM me.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 9, 2013)

Thanks.
I have just a small tent 80 x 80 x 180cm. 
The buckets I have are 10L and about 30cm tall.
My main concern about getting one larger plastic container is that it be the right dimensions for depth and length/width. 
Will a shallower container affect the root development? 
In soil grows, people say to get taller pots to help promote deeper root growth and bigger plants.
Does the same logic apply to bubbler pot systems? 
If the mesh pot is sitting in a bucket or box that is not very deep, will it limit the roots, or will they just grow out into the liquid in any direction?
If the roots do grow out into the liquid, will they get tangled up with the roots from nearby mesh pots if the mesh pots are placed too near each other in the same plastic container?
Should I be looking for a container that is deeper to let the roots grow down into the liquid or one that is long and wide enough to allow me to space the mesh pots further apart when I cut holes for them in the lid of the large container?
I plan to grow only two plants to start.
I made a little drawing to show what I mean.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 9, 2013)

No, the same logic does not apply to hydro.  And 2 plants in 1 tote, the roots are going to get tangled.  However that shouldn't really matter unless you have to remove one plant.

It is not so much the width or depth as being large enough so that you are not topping up the res every couple of days.  You do not want it too shallow though as you want the roots only about 1/2 submerged.  Here are some of the pros and cons as I see them.  A larger tote is easier to control the ppms and pH.  The cons are that it is heavy and will take a pump to drain.  In addition you cannot raise or lower individual plants to compensate for an uneven canopy (which can happen even with clones).


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 9, 2013)

Thanks. I think that I'm just going to use buckets for my first hydro attempt, but I will exchange the 10L buckets for 20L buckets. I didn't really think it through about how I would have to handle such a big container as a 40 or 50 L sitting on the floor of my little tent to clean or drain it or how to raise individual plants to the same height.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Nov 9, 2013)

Yep yep, Goddess said it right. The space in the container doesn't matter much unless it is very small. It is more a matter of how much solution you are working with. I would say go with as large of a tote as will fit in the grow space and still be able to get to it for maintenance. But the individual buckets will work just as well. If you are going to go with just 2 plants now then get 4 buckets so that each week, you can mix up a new bucket of solution and then just lift the plant in the mesh pot lid right off the first bucket and set in place on the new bucket of solution and then put back in place. Then you can just dump out the old solution water and clean that bucket to have for the next week's water change. With the buckets you will have to change the solution every week so you don't want to have  giant plants grow in them as they will get quite heavy. However, as you have a small space to grow in, you won't have large plant anyway


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 9, 2013)

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> Yep yep, Goddess said it right. The space in the container doesn't matter much unless it is very small. It is more a matter of how much solution you are working with. I would say go with as large of a tote as will fit in the grow space and still be able to get to it for maintenance. But the individual buckets will work just as well. If you are going to go with just 2 plants now then get 4 buckets so that each week, you can mix up a new bucket of solution and then just lift the plant in the mesh pot lid right off the first bucket and set in place on the new bucket of solution and then put back in place. Then you can just dump out the old solution water and clean that bucket to have for the next week's water change. With the buckets you will have to change the solution every week so you don't want to have  giant plants grow in them as they will get quite heavy. However, as you have a small space to grow in, you won't have large plant anyway


Thanks, the double bucket suggestion is a very good idea. I was wondering how to juggle the mesh pots without damaging the roots.
But I'm a little confused now.
What will affect the potential size of the plant? The smaller buckets or tote size? The size of the mesh pots? The size of the tent? My choice of seeds?

I was reading about the growth of beneficial bacteria in the buckets and reservoirs with hydro and that some people did not totally change the solutions. 
Is this something to consider or would it tend to promote root rot or disease in the hands of an amateur like me?


----------



## sunakard2000 (Nov 9, 2013)

keep it simple, learn the grow method before you imploy new techniques. also the size of the plant in this situiation has nothing to do really with any of those conditions, its about the length of time you veg the plant and how well you train it to say low and even, more bush like then tall tree like, now dont get me wrong different genetics grow to different sizes without training, but most people use some method of training like LST, Supercropping, FIM, Topping, Scrog, etc... to keep the plants short and stocky rather then tall and lanky. the biggest thing thats going to effect the size of the plant is time in veg and training. at least in hydro unlike soil container size isnt as big of a factor in size as the roots can freely grow into the solution and take up nutes without having to continue to grow roots out further to search for nutes like in soil. iv seen plants grown in 3gal DWC buckets do just as well and get just as big as ones grown in a 5gal DWC bucket or even big totes. all in all though since this is all totaly new to you, learn the basics before you try new things like organic dwc, it can get messy very fast if you dont understand the basics first and have a good handle on how the system works and the plants respond to changes. remember keep it simple.


----------



## trillions of atoms (Nov 10, 2013)

You fd up by not getting the lids in the built in netpots... if you get a decent yeild you will listen next time.  If not then you still got alot to learn.


please do more research and dont try and "wing it".


 Best advice you will get.

dont listen to rooks...get the hint.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 10, 2013)

trillions of atoms said:
			
		

> You fd up by not getting the lids in the built in netpots... if you get a decent yeild you will listen next time.  If not then you still got alot to learn.



I don't know what that means. What are the lids you speak of?
The little covers that can go around the stems of the plants sitting in the mesh pots? 
I read that this helps to keep out more light from affecting the nute solution in the bucket below and reduces the growth of algae. It also is supposed to reduce evaporation of the nute liquid according to other comments.

I indeed have a lot to learn, but that's what's going on now. I haven't started my new grow yet as I have couple of weeks or so before I can harvest my little potted plants. 
On the other hand, there are a lot of different ways of doing things and real learning comes best through personal experience. That's one thing I've already learned from reading hundreds of posts and grow journals, so I will have to go through another grow, or two or ten before I really hope to develop some serious knowledge.

As of now, my plan for the next grow is to set up two big buckets with smallish net pots about 5 inches wide and deep full of clay balls and grow them in liquid nute solution just using an air pump and air stone to aerate the liquid.
I will also keep one tall pot with soil in there and grow another plant in it just to see how the soil grow works under my new lights and less obsessive feeding methods. Most of my mistakes the first grow were due to overfeeding/pH issues and underlighting and I am interested in seeing if I can improve this technique.

I am going to put in an air cooled hid light reflector rather than use cfls and grow with a hps and mh bulbs. 
I haven't yet decided whether to get the 400 or the 600 watt size because I want to consider my tent size and the heat issues that the larger bulb and reflector may pose. One person cautioned against creating a fire risk inside the tent with too big a reflector and light.
But this grow will be over the winter and the garage is unheated, so it may be useful to let the lights act as the heat source in the grow area.

I will probably grow another couple of auto flower strains, an indica and a sativa, but I haven't decided whether to try two photoperiod strains instead. 

I upgraded my tent to a slightly bigger size, so now I will have two tents and 700 watts of cfls available if I want to have a veg tent and a flower tent.
Since the veg stage isn't smelly, I don't need to have a filter in the veg tent, so I would only need to get another small extractor fan to run both tents.

I don't think that I will do that yet because of my concerns about having enough amps in my garage electric circuit to handle both tents running, but its now a definite option for the future if we move and I have a suitable place to run both tents.
Fiddling with the electrics where we live is not an option, so I can't add another dedicated circuit or rewire anything.

Right now, I'm still considering the size of the lights and the size of the buckets and whether to grow in one tote rather than two buckets.
I'm also considering which two strains to try, and whether to try an auto or a photo. 
I'm also still researching which nutes to go with for my type of grow.

I have to visit Holland in several weeks for a few days for a conference and plan to hit all of the seed stores and pick their brains and look at their grow setups and find a couple of good books to bring back before I make my final decisions.
That will give me time to finish up the current plants and harvest them properly before setting up my new tent and grow.

If you have anything that you could advise relating to my plans, I would certainly appreciate it.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 10, 2013)

sunakard2000 said:
			
		

> keep it simple, learn the grow method before you imploy new techniques. also the size of the plant in this situiation has nothing to do really with any of those conditions, its about the length of time you veg the plant and how well you train it to say low and even, more bush like then tall tree like, now dont get me wrong different genetics grow to different sizes without training, but most people use some method of training like LST, Supercropping, FIM, Topping, Scrog, etc... to keep the plants short and stocky rather then tall and lanky. the biggest thing thats going to effect the size of the plant is time in veg and training. at least in hydro unlike soil container size isnt as big of a factor in size as the roots can freely grow into the solution and take up nutes without having to continue to grow roots out further to search for nutes like in soil. iv seen plants grown in 3gal DWC buckets do just as well and get just as big as ones grown in a 5gal DWC bucket or even big totes. all in all though since this is all totaly new to you, learn the basics before you try new things like organic dwc, it can get messy very fast if you dont understand the basics first and have a good handle on how the system works and the plants respond to changes. remember keep it simple.



Thanks. I am definitely going to try to FIM this time to get more colas and keep the plants lower. And I am going to keep the bucket method simple with just an air stone and not the more fancy hydro methods I've read about.
I expect to still have some issues during the grow, but I need to start learning the hydro method so that I can decide whether I prefer it or the soil grow instead.


----------



## pcduck (Nov 10, 2013)

> What are the lids you speak of?



They make lids with a net pot formed right in the lid. This keeps the plant from tipping over. Or make your own and glue the net pot to the lid.

I like using individual buckets. That way you are able to feed  the plants their own needs. Some plants are heavy feeders, some are light feeders, mix the two into a tote and you have 2 plants not getting what they need.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 10, 2013)

pcduck said:
			
		

> They make lids with a net pot formed right in the lid. This keeps the plant from tipping over. Or make your own and glue the net pot to the lid.
> 
> I like using individual buckets. That way you are able to feed  the plants their own needs. Some plants are heavy feeders, some are light feeders, mix the two into a tote and you have 2 plants not getting what they need.


Thanks. That's very good to know.
I thought that the lids on the black plastic buckets might be a bit thin and was planning to make a circular plywood rim to nest the mesh pots in so that they would be more stable to pick up, but it didn't occur to me that the small mesh pot might tip over on its own while sitting in the lid.
It makes a lot of sense when you think about it, though.
So I will glue the mesh pots  down to keep them from tipping over while they are in the buckets.
I also agree with your info about the nutes. I learned the same thing from my two soil plants. One had quite serious leaf issues because of my overfeeding it while the other seemed to get along much better when given the same feeding.
They were different strains and I plan to also do different strains next time, so it seems logical to be able to feed them differently by using separate buckets rather than one big tote.


----------



## pcduck (Nov 10, 2013)

DWC is quite easy. Biggest concerns are pH and the work involved when changing out the nutes.

A reliable pH pen solves the pH concern and a battery operated kerosene pump eliminated the work involved changing out the nutes. The girls get to be a pain if you have to lift them off the buckets to change out the nutes. I just slip the pump into the bucket and pump it out. I just slide the lid over, but you could drill a hole in the lid that the pump fits thru and just cover/seal the hole when not in use.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 10, 2013)

pcduck said:
			
		

> DWC is quite easy. Biggest concerns are pH and the work involved when changing out the nutes.
> 
> A reliable pH pen solves the pH concern and a battery operated kerosene pump eliminated the work involved changing out the nutes. The girls get to be a pain if you have to lift them off the buckets to change out the nutes. I just slip the pump into the bucket and pump it out. I just slide the lid over, but you could drill a hole in the lid that the pump fits thru and just cover/seal the hole when not in use.


Thanks.
That sounds like a better idea. I haven't heard of a battery powered kerosene pump, but I will look into it. 
I did get a good pH meter about half way into my first grow and discovered that my tap water was 7.5. When I corrected it, the plants began to look better.
Also, I had read that the buckets or reservoirs can develop beneficial bacteria so just draining out the old solutions and refilling the buckets without cleaning them out can preserve some of them in the bucket for the new solution. Is this something to consider?


----------



## pcduck (Nov 10, 2013)

The simplest and easiest with the best results for a novice would be General Hydroponics 3 part. I use it with tremendous results in my DWC. This is a synthetic nute that works very well. Once a grower gets a few grows in maybe then try organics.


----------



## WeedHopper (Nov 10, 2013)

DWC is a great way to grow. I loved growing in 5 gallon buckets. I made all my own DWCs. One other thing,,watch your Solution Temps. To warm of solution can cause problems and you dont want any light leaking into the buckets. I use to have to keep frozen bottles of water in my Buckets cause I was growing in the hot *** South.
I use Dutch Master A&B Grow and A&B Bloom with very nice results.


----------



## Growdude (Nov 10, 2013)

Surfer Joe said:
			
		

> Also, I had read that the buckets or reservoirs can develop beneficial bacteria so just draining out the old solutions and refilling the buckets without cleaning them out can preserve some of them in the bucket for the new solution. Is this something to consider?


 
I wouldn't consider this being new to hydro, the problem is the plants use individual nutes in different proportions.
This can lead to a build up of less used nute elements to a toxic level.
This is why most change out the rez every 7-14 days.

This is why I prefer a system with a connected reservoir for a easy pump out and refill.
Different strains can be dealt with. When in doubt about nutes less is more IMO.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 10, 2013)

I do it a lot like duck, but I do like to change my buckets out completely.  IMO, it is a good idea to look at the roots and to have clean buckets.  I have extra buckets (and airstones) and will mix new nute solution in these.  After the ppms and pH are right, it is a simple matter of lifting the entire lid with the plant in it off the old bucket and putting it on the new clean bucket.  You are going to need extra buckets or something to mix up the new nute solution in anyway.  Making up nute solution is something that takes at least a day and a half.

IMO, 2 5 gal buckets are going to be better than a single 10 gal tote.  While the tops with the net pots built in are nice, I personally have not had problems with plants tipping over if I use 6" pots and didn't cut the holes for the pots too big.

If you went to a bigger tent size, I recommend getting the 600W.  You can make a dimmable 600WQ put out 400W, but you cannot make a 400W pout out 600W.  If in doubt, go bigger.

Also with a larger tent, you may be able to do something like grow 2 autos and 2 photoperiod plants.  The autos generally stay quite small.  This would give you some smoke while the photoperiod plants are flowering.

I'm with duck on keeping it simple.  I have grown hydro for many many years and still cannot get the organics down.  Your chances of growing unbeneficial things is just as great (or greater) than having a good organic environment in a dirty bucket.  I am a big believer in cleaning your buckets regularly and checking your roots to make sure they are healthy.  And not busting your balls or anything, I know you are being bombarded with a lot of info and there are variations to everything, but duck mentioned the kerosene pump back in post 19.  You might want to take some notes to try and keep all this info straight and to help you come to a decision on things--kind of a pro/con list.


----------



## Surfer Joe (Nov 10, 2013)

Thanks again to everyone for all of this information.
I have indeed started a notebook for my second grow, and everything that people recommend I cut and paste into a Word document organized by the different elements in the process then print it out and put in in a notebook, although my wife said that I should just put it on my iPad so that I can read it in the dark when I'm working in the garage and the light is poor.
It's been extremely helpful in keeping track of all the advice in all the threads, and I really appreciate the help.
Once I start the grow, I will also keep notes and build a grow journal and keep photos.

I assume that by organics, people mean a nute regimen that makes use of beneficial bacteria or special nutrients instead of the ready-made formulas that come in 2 or 3 parts? I am not interested in organics at the moment, so I plan to just use one brand of synthetic nutes for the grow this time instead of flipping around all over the place like I did with my first grow in soil.

I already checked out the kerosene pumps and it happens that I already have a battery powered pump that I used with my kid's fish aquarium a few years ago.
It was pretty cheap anyway, so I might just get a new one that isn't encrusted with old fish tank crud inside.

I took a bud from the little sativa yesterday and dried it in the oven, and it was pretty nice. My wife said that it actually smelled like pot rather than hay, so I'm excited about the upcoming harvest. It looks like I could get maybe 1/2 to 1 oz of dry buds from my three little plants, but I have no idea how much pot dries and changes weight from green. I'm only going by the look of a beautiful bud of amnesia haze that was about 4 inches long that I bought once in Amsterdam and that weighed almost 5 grams. If mine are as heavy, it looks more like 1 oz may be there. The colas keep getting a bit more dense as time goes by.

I now got four 20 L buckets to use and will grow two plants, one sativa and one indica, in them, and use the other two for nute changes, plus I plan to throw in one 7L soil pot in the tent with my last sativa auto seed from the current strain and compare how it goes to my first grow with it. 
The one thing I haven't yet decided is whether to grow more autos or try a photoperiod grow. I am tempted to do the photo grow because of the greater seed variety on offer and the promise of greater potency.

Thanks again for all the help.


----------



## zem (Nov 10, 2013)

i personally find flood and drain easier and simpler than DWC. results are more consistent and maintaining it is easy. check if pump and timer are operating, top and manage your res and that's it. no airstones and noisy pumps and many small hoses...


----------



## sunakard2000 (Nov 10, 2013)

organics means more then just beneficial micro organisms, everything is organic, no salt cleated synthetic/chemical nutes, all derived from plant or animal products, mostly plant materials. and yes we like living things in there, but organics is defently 100% easier in soil/soil-less mixes, organic hydro is a sticky nasty mess, been there done that and never again, if i do go back to DWC at some point ill be using the GH 3part nutes. as THG said the delicate balancing act of good vs bad micro organisms is a total pain, more work then a simple DWC should be. and in the end not much difference in end product. as i said before keep it simple, unless a 10L bucket is too heavy to lift every few days then there is no need for a water pump at all, i just dumped mine in my laundry room sink and replaced with new bucket of nutes, 2 bucket method. and in my opinion if you have the lights for veg and flower you may as well go with photo period plants, and especialy if you upgrade at some point and get another slightly larger tent then youll have a veg and flower tent which makes photoperiod plants even easier to manage.


----------

