# A problem with Power!



## oldsman (Nov 6, 2012)

I have a 8'x8' shed that I am wanting to build like a 4'x2' box/cabinet and light it with my new 600w.Problem is my shed is not wired for power.The shed sits about 75' from the main box for the house but at todays prices for anything copper I can't afford enough wire.My question is: my water well sits only about 15' from the shed and has a 220/240 line for the pump down in the well.Is it possible to tie into that line somehow to run over to the shed for power?Would I risk messing with my pump?Could putting in a bigger breaker work?I have very limited electrical experience.I understand the basics but I respect electricity enough not to mess with it.Any help would be,well,helpful.


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## randm999 (Nov 7, 2012)

No. You will be drawing too much from the pump circuit.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 7, 2012)

You probably cannot draw off that line directly.  An electrician may be able to put in a sub panel or similar that you could use.  However, I am sure that it is going to take an electrician to look at it and evaluate the situation.  I know many people that have pump houses and the pump circuit is used to run 110 outlets for lights and heaters.

If you work with electricity, you should know that you can very seldom put in a larger breaker safely.  Electricians rarely run larger gauge wire than the breaker requires.


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## oldsman (Nov 7, 2012)

Thanks rndm999,THG.You have both verified my concerns of using the line going to my pump.Currently I'm using a heavy 12g 100ft power cord from an outlet in my house to the shed for running my tools and what not.I know this isn't the best way to do it but could I use this cord to run my 600w light,digital ballast and a small heater/fan till I can afford an electrician?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 7, 2012)

A 12 gauge line is a heavy enough gauge to run a 20 amp breaker.  I do not know what you lose running over a 100' distance though.  Make sure that the neither the cord or the equipment is getting hot, which indicates too heavy a load.  Since I am assuming that you will not be running the heater and the light at the same time, you should be fine.  Most space heaters are 1500W, so you don't want it running when your light is.  

I really think an electrician will be able to do something with the pump circuit.


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Nov 7, 2012)

What is the breaker size on the pump circuit?  Most pumps do not draw that many amps, at least at 220.  Also, see if you can look at the label on the pump and see exactly how much power it draws.  If you have a 2-4 amp startup draw on a 20 amp 220 circuit you have plenty of power left over.

I would pull a feed off that pump circuit.  But I am lazy and cheap.


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## DrFever (Nov 7, 2012)

The number of watts a motor draws depends on several factors. The biggest one is the horsepower it is producing. The next biggest is its efficiency. For example, a 2HP motor operating at 100% efficiency and producing exactly 2HP will consume 1492 watts. This is impossible, no motor is 100% efficient. In reality, a 2HP single phase motor will be about 65-75% efficient, meaning the actual wattage will be about 30-50% higher. 

The HP required to drive a centrifugal pump is directly related to the flow through it. Higher pressure= lower flow= lower HP. Some pumps load the motor to its rated HP at open discharge (0 PSI pressure). Some will be overloaded this way. 

The only way to know for sure is to measure the wattage with a wattmeter. You can guess though, and come amazingly close. If the motor has one capacitor on it, figure 65% efficiency. If it has two, figure 75%. In a typical water pump like this, figure the HP load at 80%. 1HP= 746 watts. It's just simple math from here.


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## oldsman (Nov 7, 2012)

THG,you've put my mind at ease about using my cord for the time being.I ordered a wing reflector with my light so I'm hoping not to need my heater till after lights out.OSG,I will have to wait till morning to check all the sizes,and I also am lazy and cheap.Won't be able to see label on the pump as it sits about 275 ft down in the well.DR.,you lost me at first but I get what you're saying.The pump is 1.5hp,it doesn't run all the time or even every time the water is used.I'm hoping to have a electrician out next week to see what can be done.


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## ShOrTbUs (Nov 7, 2012)

If money is too tight for an electrician to run a new line to the shed. You can do all the labor intensive parts yourself and just have the electrician come in and set it all up. If willing I can even walk you through the install myself. But if you'd rather have an electrician do it. By doing the labor part yourself you can at the least reduce the price of the install


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## oldsman (Nov 8, 2012)

ShOrTbUs,thanks for the reply.I can dig trenches for conduit,I can mount a breaker box to a post,I can even connect it if I knew which wires went where.I'm trying not to have to buy 100ft of new wire if all I need is 20ft to hook into the line running my well pump.I'm trying to make sure I won't damage my pump by drawing power off it's line,new wire(although expensive)is cheaper than putting a new pump down the well.If I can be sure of this part the rest is cake.Basically,do I need to pull a new line from the main to the shed or tap into the pumps circuit(without frying my pump)which is way closer to my shed?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 8, 2012)

A submersible pump that is down 275 feet pulls some juice.   Some of the deeper ones have control boxes that amp the power up to give the pump a kick start to get going and I would assume that you are going to need to pull your power off before a control box if you have one.  Where is your pressure tank and switch located?  Does the power for the pump come off the main house box?

I believe that Dr. Fever is talking about an inline jet type pump, not a deep submersible (though I could be wrong, I don't do much pump work at all, I leave that to the pump guys).


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## ShOrTbUs (Nov 8, 2012)

oldsman said:
			
		

> ShOrTbUs,thanks for the reply.I can dig trenches for conduit,I can mount a breaker box to a post,I can even connect it if I knew which wires went where.I'm trying not to have to buy 100ft of new wire if all I need is 20ft to hook into the line running my well pump.I'm trying to make sure I won't damage my pump by drawing power off it's line,new wire(although expensive)is cheaper than putting a new pump down the well.If I can be sure of this part the rest is cake.Basically,do I need to pull a new line from the main to the shed or tap into the pumps circuit(without frying my pump)which is way closer to my shed?




yeah i hear ya, 100ft of 10 gauge underground is like 200$ in itself. i guess i'm just kinda jaded b/c i have several friends that work for the electrical union. free wire is easy to come by for me. good luck to you though. hopefully the electrician says u can draw from the pump line. fingers crossed


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## oldsman (Nov 8, 2012)

THG,we had a new pump put in May '11 for a grand.I have been informed the pump is only pulling off 110v,not 220 like i thought.I was also told I could still use it to run a line to my shed for an outlet to run my stuff.I think I'm going to go for it.This way I will only need about 30ft of new wire which I should have next payday.I thank everyone for the time ya'll took to twist your thoughts around my problem and helping me decide what to do.I am looking forward to trying my hand at 3-4 inside girls,plus I know this awesome website,with a bunch of really cool and diverse people that love to help with problems and advice,ya'll should go over and check it out..........wait,you're already here.


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Nov 8, 2012)

You sure about that 110v?  A jet pump will run on 110v, but most submersible pumps are 220v.  If you run 110v off that pump line you'd better be able to get to the breaker easily.  A 1.5 hp well pump can suck some serious amps when it turns on and a 600 watt light will draw about 5.5 amps.  A 1.5 hp submersible pump can draw 13 amps of 220v to start up - which would be out of the range of the 20 amps a normal 110v circuit would draw.

If you still have it, look at the receipt/work order from the new pump install.  It should list the make & model of the pump and from that you can lookup what (and how much) power it uses.  Or call the company that installed it and ask them.  Just tell them you want to run hand tools from your shed and want to know if the power they ran to the pump has enough extra to handle the shed.


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## oldsman (Nov 8, 2012)

Well darn it,there you go making me question my earlier decision,thanks alot!I had just burnt one and was going to do that myself.Now what am I going to do with my buzz?I'll figure out some thing.Maybe I'll get on the computer for a while until the wife catches m


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 8, 2012)

I also question the 110, especially if your pump is down 275'.  I personally have never seen a submersible that large that ran on 110.  It is common where I live to run a space heater in the winter in well houses, so there should be a way for an electrician to do this.  I would not run a heater and the light at the same time though.    

You should be able to look at your breaker box and see what you are running.


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Nov 8, 2012)

No drama oldsman... Do you see the pump's control box above ground near the well?  Any junction box looking thingie?  Odds are all the info you need is either on or inside that box.  Not like you have to pull the pump up to look at it (smile).  Also look at your breaker box and see what was used for that connection.  Should be marked for your pump and be either single pole (110v) or double-pole (220v).  That's where you need to start...  If its 110v then you might be SOL.  If its 220v (odds are with you) then you might have the easier solution.

Burn another one and go look at the box outside.  Your quest for info might then be complete!


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## oldsman (Nov 8, 2012)

OK,so I got caught and was sentenced to cooking shrimp,fish,fries and hushpuppies.OSG,the only thing near the pumpy thingy,lol,is the pressure switch and the pressure tank.The wires come out of the ground over to the pressure switch then out to the pump.It is a new style pump so the control box with the relay and capacitor is no longer needed,it is built into/onto the pump itself.I want to say there are 3 wires,white,black and bare.When my old pump quit working a neighbor put a meter on the wires.When he touched the white/bare combo it read 110v.When he did the black/bare combo same thing,110v.When he did the white/black combo it read 220v,if that makes any sense.The person that told me it was 110 I don't think knew a whole lot.When I asked him what he knew about electricity he replied"it'll shock ya".I really think that is the extent of his knowledge on it.I'll go out in the morning and check the main breaker box for that circuit.How can I tell by looking at it if it is single pole/double pole hook-up?


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Nov 8, 2012)

The breaker thing is easy.  It will either be single pole with one switch, or (more likely) double-pole.  The double pole ones look like 2 single switches glued together; which is what they are.  Same double poles will be in your breaker box for things like heat/AC system, an electric dryer, an electric stove, etc.  

From what you describe about 110 on two wires you have 220v.  A 220v circuit is just two 110v ones tied together.


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## oldsman (Nov 8, 2012)

Ok,so I got dressed and went out to look at the main box right under the meter.The wires from the pump go into a double breaker which is 220v?How do I get it from the pump to the shed,as in which wire goes where.Will I need a small breaker box on my shed to wire the 220v into then run a single pole breaker off that for the shed?Am I in the ball park or wandering around the parking lot still?


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Nov 8, 2012)

You are in the ballpark.  Now find an electrician who will do it on the side for you.  Bet if you bought the cable from him/her it might be a little cheaper, and if you trench the cable in for them and they only have to hook it up at both ends - and use parts they sell you or you get for them - you'll keep it on the cheap.  You don't want to start just hooking up wires unless you want to replace that pump again.


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## oldsman (Nov 9, 2012)

Gotcha OSG.I'll plan on doing the digging and all and hopefully have it at the point of just hooking it up.I myself won't be hooking wires up.I really appreciate all the help from you and everyone else.I'll let ya'll know when it is said and done.


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