# Early Preflowers/Sexing questions



## krikri (Oct 19, 2009)

Hi guys, I'm trying to sex one plant and I've got some questions:

In the very early beginning, female preflowers (calyxes) may look like male flowers, right? I'm asking because I'm seeing some small ball-like things growing out of the internodes, but it's only one on each node. If it was a male, there would be more, right? And the pistils don't come out immediately, right? 

It's been only a couple of days since I saw these, and I'm in 12/12 since, just to find out what's going on - I know it's only a matter of days before my questions are answered, but I'm impatient and I'd like to get rid of any males as soon as possible, so if anyone can help me out I'd greatly appreciate it.

Here are some pics:


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## HippyInEngland (Oct 19, 2009)

Hello krikri 

Welcome to the forum.

I am 95% sure that is a male.

Give it another week and you will know for certain.

eace:


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## 2Dog (Oct 19, 2009)

Im gonna call that a dude...I dont see any female signs and if you see a ball that means pollen which will seed ur other plants...


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## dirtyolsouth (Oct 19, 2009)

:watchplant: 

Hi,

I'm with HIE...  95% sure but it's not going to hurt anything to keep an eye on it until the pollen sacs are more developed to confirm that it's a male...  It doesn't happen overnight so there's no sense of urgency...

Peace!


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## GeezerBudd (Oct 19, 2009)

I'm with HIE too. Just keep an eye on it.
The ball part will have a very short but defined stem

Gb


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## krikri (Oct 19, 2009)

Yeah, I guess I'll keep an eye on that primordia a couple more days, and see how it goes. Got myself one of those LED illuminated 60x-100x portable microscopes, but I find it impossible to focus and examine closer, so that's why I needed some more experienced opinions.

If these turn out to be male sacks indeed, I'll settle with even a hermie plant, because it would at least give me something to smoke...I've got three more seedlings besides this plant, but this one is my first grow and I'd like to smoke something out of it 

Thanks guys, I really appreciate all your help


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## HippyInEngland (Oct 19, 2009)

krikri said:
			
		

> I'll settle with even a hermie plant, because it would at least give me something to smoke...I've got three more seedlings besides this plant, but this one is my first grow and I'd like to smoke something out of it


 
Yup, I agree fully.

But make sure the (If you get one) hermie has all and every pollen sack removed, they also hide inside the buds.

I presume you have the seedlings in a different room.

eace:


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## krikri (Oct 20, 2009)

HippyInEngland said:
			
		

> I presume you have the seedlings in a different room.


No, because they're less than a week old, so I didn't think it was necessary. Just this morning I found out another one popped out overnight, so I've got 4 sharing two small pots for now.

This morning I saw one more thing - a few hair-like things growing at the top of the older plant. Pics are not very good, and I know these can be new leaves, but could they also be pistils?


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## bluealein56 (Oct 20, 2009)

Im not convinced that those are males just yet. If you just started seeing the preflowers then its still to early to say.. It seems whatever plant that is thats growing in that last pic is beginning to flower. Could be female could be hermie


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## BBFan (Oct 20, 2009)

:yeahthat: 

I'm with _Bluealein56_ on this one.  But then I'm not as experienced as some of the others who responded here. I just don't see sex yet.

Those last 2 pics you just put up show some nice growth- but you need to focus on the nodes- that's where the preflowers will show up.

And you won't need a microscope to tell once they pop!

Good luck _Krikri_, hope it's a lady for ya!

Happy Growing!


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## krikri (Oct 20, 2009)

Well, I got the microscope for the buds mostly, but I figured  I could also use it to examine the preflowers...bad idea since it needs to touch the surface of what it examines, and you can't do that  with such a small object.

Here are a few more pics from today. The node in these picture looked like it could hold a calyx with naked eye, but after looking at the picture I think I'm just looking at a new pair of leaves that's growing from there...


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## 2Dog (Oct 20, 2009)

krikri didnt you already say that you have removed balls from the plant?? I have yet to see balls on a female..


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## Iamganja (Oct 20, 2009)

krikri said:
			
		

> Well, I got the microscope for the buds mostly, but I figured  I could also use it to examine the preflowers...bad idea since it needs to touch the surface of what it examines, and you can't do that  with such a small object.
> 
> Here are a few more pics from today. The node in these picture looked like it could hold a calyx with naked eye, but after looking at the picture I think I'm just looking at a new pair of leaves that's growing from there...



hmmm... well in my first grow i had a hermie, at 1st it seemed 100% female no doubt but during flowering when the buds started filling, apparently this tiny banana looking things started appearing in my bud, and i grew it to the end had to do lots of maintenance though to remove those bananaz and the yield wasnt that great the budds were fluffy and the smoke would crackle evrynow and then. lol anyways wht im trying to say those look females too me and u might have managed to control ur hermie issue but U MUST KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THOSE BANANAZ. i will wait for the budds to make my call till then, good luck with ur grow .


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## BBFan (Oct 20, 2009)

Hi Krikri-

Is there any way you can focus in on the area I circled in your picture?  That's where it looks like you got some growth going on.

I also put 2 little sketches on your picture (sorry, they are very crude).  The one on the left resembles (sort of) a male pre-flower.  The one on the right resembles a female preflower.

The way I see it, the male is like a few balls dangling from a stem- and the female is a little single ball sitting right at the node with 2 white hairs coming out of it.

That 3rd pic looks promising too- maybe a close-up of that growth tip too. 

Hope this helps.  Still hoping it's a girl for ya!


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## krikri (Oct 21, 2009)

Well.....what more can I say....I love this forum :heart:

Thanks everyone for taking the time, it feels awesome to see how many people got interested and show their support to a new grower  



			
				2Dog said:
			
		

> krikri didnt you already say that you have removed balls from the plant??


 No, I didn't say that - I said I would like to remove males as soon as possible. 

But of course if these turn out to be balls (which I'm sure some are), I'll remove all of them as soon as they grow a bit and can be removed, because they're too small for that right now.



			
				Iamganja said:
			
		

> wht im trying to say those look females too me and u might have managed to control ur hermie issue but U MUST KEEP AN EYE OUT FOR THOSE BANANAZ.


I will man, thanks, let's hope you're right  



			
				BBFan said:
			
		

> Hi Krikri-
> 
> Is there any way you can focus in on the area I circled in your picture? That's where it looks like you got some growth going on.
> 
> That 3rd pic looks promising too- maybe a close-up of that growth tip too.


Hi BBFan, 

 I did my best, but early morning pictures just isn't my thing  Most of the pics came out blurry, including most of the pics I got from the internodes.

I'll get some better ones later today - not sure if you can see something else in there, but unfortunately all I see is leaves and more leaves...


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## bluealein56 (Oct 21, 2009)

still too soon yo. give it a few days...........
 but like it was said before. If there were balls on there and ya pulled them off then its still a male.


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## BBFan (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi Krikri-

How old were they when you put them on 12/12?

I would wait.  IMHO the jury's still out on the sex thing.

Happy Growing!


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## the chef (Oct 21, 2009)

Its a hermie. You'll soon get more hairs and then what looks like resin pods until they harden into seeds, i saw one that had them formed under the bud sites. It started off with two resin pod looking things with a hair or two coming out of it, then turned into four before harvest. I couldn't tell at first if they were nanners or new leaves with a solid yellow line running down the middle. It had bud spots and then bud growth with white hairs everywhere. Turned out hermie. The smoke was really good though, hope this helps.


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## BBFan (Oct 21, 2009)

the chef said:
			
		

> Its a hermie. You'll soon get more hairs and then what looks like resin pods until they harden into seeds, i saw one that had them formed under the bud sites. It started off with two resin pod looking things with a hair or two coming out of it, then turned into four before harvest. I couldn't tell at first if they were nanners or new leaves with a solid yellow line running down the middle. It had bud spots and then bud growth with white hairs everywhere. Turned out hermie. The smoke was really good though, hope this helps.


 
Hi Chef!  How you doing?

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how it can be determined to be a hermie before it's shown any flowers at all.  What am I missing?

-BBFan


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## the chef (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey bb, my first plant, sativa dom., showed the same characteristics as the pics, it looks to be growing the same way including the little shoots in pic four. I thought it was a female the only survivor of my first grow in my gj, check it out and tell me what you think, of course i've been known to be wrong here:48: lets see what the verdict is.:beatnik:


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## BBFan (Oct 21, 2009)

Hi Chef-
Didn't see any herm in your grow journal, but then I didn't read every post.  "Lady Blue" sure is a pretty lady though- congrats on that!:cool2: 

I've only had 1 plant herm on me and I didn't know it till after I harvested- and only cause I found a couple seeds in 1 bud  .  Must have been a sac buried deep in the bud cause I removed the 1 male I had way before any nanners could have popped.

I've seen other pics of herms from other growers here- but usually it's pretty far into flowering- and pretty obvious.

I think Krikri here still has a chance at having a plain old baby girl- least I'm hoping for him!

Happy Growing!


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## the chef (Oct 21, 2009)

TY bbfan, Not labeled a hermie its the bagseed i finished, i only feel this way because i watched it everyday sometimes every hour as i am awaiting another back surgery next month. I'm pulling fer a female 2. Lady blue says hi and ty. I have nothing to do but grow right now and keep constant vigil over my ladies, so when i saw the pics i was shure it was a herm but i hoping it's one of those things i'm wrong about. C'mon Krikri!


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## krikri (Oct 21, 2009)

bluealein56 said:
			
		

> If there were balls on there and ya pulled them off then its still a male.


 Yeah, I know, taking away the organs doesn't make them females, it's the same in humans 

But I never said I pulled off anything, how come you guys all think I said that?



			
				BBFan said:
			
		

> How old were they when you put them on 12/12?


 The plant was 36 days old when I switched cycles. There were no alternating nodes, and it looked like it could use some more vegging (still a little less than a feet tall), I just did it to see what the preflowers will evolve to in order to chop off the plant if it's a male and concentrate on the seedlings instead. I think I read somewhere that you can even do that with a bag, outdoor growers do this to see what they're dealing with. If it turns out to be a hermie or a female, I could either just switch to veg again or keep flowering if I want, right?



			
				the chef said:
			
		

> The smoke was really good though, hope this helps.


That's all I need, some really good smoke, and not really too much for my first time, thanks chef


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## BBFan (Oct 21, 2009)

krikri said:
			
		

> The plant was 36 days old when I switched cycles. There were no alternating nodes, and it looked like it could use some more vegging (still a little less than a feet tall), I just did it to see what the preflowers will evolve to in order to chop off the plant if it's a male and concentrate on the seedlings instead. I think I read somewhere that you can even do that with a bag, outdoor growers do this to see what they're dealing with. If it turns out to be a hermie or a female, I could either just switch to veg again or keep flowering if I want, right?


 
Give it a few more days krikri.

Every indoor grow I've done has showed preflowers at about 6 weeks, so maybe you jumped the gun a little bit (but I switch to 18/6 at 4 weeks).  You don't need to put a bag on it.

Based on what you said here though, I think it's going to be a bigger problem for you *if it is* a female!

Happy Growing.  

Geez, I love this stuff!  Growing is intoxicating all by itself... then you get to smoke it too!


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## krikri (Oct 21, 2009)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Based on what you said here though, I think it's going to be a bigger problem for you *if it is* a female!


 What do you mean? If it's a female, the time switches will herm it? I really don't mind, if that's what you mean, as long as it gives me something to smoke without a headache 



			
				BBFan said:
			
		

> Geez, I love this stuff!  Growing is intoxicating all by itself... then you get to smoke it too!


 I couldn't agree more :aok: Somebody wiser than me once said "it's all about the trip, not the destination". Every day that goes by I become more and more addicted to this hobby -  even if I get nothing out of this plant, the fun, the support, the knowledge and the experience I got from growing would still make it worthwhile 

But for now, I just wait for some better  signs of sex, hoping all that mojo will find its way  to my little growspace...


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## HippyInEngland (Oct 21, 2009)

She will find the love you are willing to give one day Krikri 

eace:


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## krikri (Oct 22, 2009)

O.K. I woke up today with a terrible headache, a sore throat and a runny nose, but these were not the worst news....went off to shoot some early morning pics, but unfortunately things are not looking good this time. The pictures I got show male organs, from other pics I've seen and from what I've read I don't think these can be mistaken....

These are pics taken from the 4th & 5th node, the higher nodes haven't shown preflowers yet. I think I read somewhere that male organs show up before pistils, and I'm wondering about the formation in one of the pictures - is this a cluster of balls or a possible calyx?

The real question, I guess, is what now? Is there any chance of it being a hermie, thus pistils will grow a bit later on, or is this a 100% male? 
Should I give it a few more days to find out, or just chop the whole thing off and concentrate on my next grow?


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## bluealein56 (Oct 22, 2009)

i feel your pain bro. It too has been sexing weeek for me and i lost two good ones. 
did you have any ohters planted for back up?


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## BBFan (Oct 22, 2009)

Doesn't look good krikri.  I'd give it another day or two to be sure.  But it's early for me here, so I can't quite focus yet  



			
				krikri said:
			
		

> Is there any chance of it being a hermie, thus pistils will grow a bit later on, or is this a 100% male?



I've never heard or seen a male turn hermi, only a female.  But that may be because we usually don't grow out males.

Give it a little more time- can't hurt at this point.


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## the chef (Oct 22, 2009)

Oh man, one of those times i was looking foward to bbfan telling me i was wrong. I gotta go with bbfan on this one, give it a little more time unless there are other plants around. That way you can identify what it is fully.G l and green be with ya!


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## krikri (Oct 22, 2009)

bluealein56 said:
			
		

> did you have any others planted for back up?


 I've got three seedlings exactly one week old. I'm gonna take really good care of them, I won't do the mistakes I did with this one. It's gonna be a while until I reach the sexing stage again, but it's 3*fun this time 



			
				BBFan said:
			
		

> I've never heard or seen a male turn hermi, only a female.  But that may be because we usually don't grow out males.


 Did a bit of research on this, turns out there are people on other boards who claim it has happened to them. And this is exactly what they say, most people don't grow males so they haven't seen them at a later stage.

Not saying this will happen, but you never know, right?



			
				BBFan said:
			
		

> Give it a little more time- can't hurt at this point.





			
				the chef said:
			
		

> give it a little more time unless there are other plants around.


  Yeah, you guys are right. That sexy smell won't let me chop it anyway 

 Gonna let it grow a bit more, remove all balls and use it to practice on flowering, trimming, and maybe even hash or butter making in the end


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## the chef (Oct 22, 2009)

Yeeeah hash! Way to go!


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