# I need Electrical advice????



## BushyKush420 (Feb 11, 2007)

I have a light switch in my closet and it controls the light in an other room which is odd, dumb EDITED FOR LANGUAGE. but there is also a switch in the same room of that of the light and i was wondering if the switch in my closet would be able to be switched to a standard 110 outlet or whatever it is. so if i just found out which wires (black and white) usually, controls the light and just capped them with those wire caps and then isnt there another set of wires that are the power?? then i would use them to power the outlet??


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## theyorker (Feb 12, 2007)

Bushykush...make sure you shut off the breaker before you do any work.  Remove the switch and you should be able to put an outlet in its place.  Good luck to you.


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 12, 2007)

Hey yorker thanks for getting back to me so quick, so that way is a safe and right way to do it? for a light switch into a outlet i would just cap the two wires that lead to the light and stuff those in away and use the other two on the outlet? thats kewl if so thanks alot


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## theyorker (Feb 12, 2007)

You don't cap any of the wires.  You need all 4 wires to connect an outlet.  Remove the switch and put the 4 wires into the back of an outlet that you buy at Home Depot.  Ask for the electrician and he will show you where to put the wires.  It's very simple.  Just make sure you shut off the breaker at the panel.


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## Brouli (Feb 12, 2007)

in that case  on the back of you switch  you will see 2 wires in one hole that on is going to other room  get your self  double switch couse you can live those wires hangin  and if you not connect the m  you not going to have power in other room

switches are easy to work with   on the back  you got instructions 
Green = ground wire
Black = positive/+
White = minus/-


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 12, 2007)

this is what i got, im wondering if you mean an outlet that also has a switch on it like one found in a bathroom? which i cant use sort of since the box in the wall is a small box and i would have to cut the drywall. ok now i cant upload the pics?? how do i make the file size smaller? i took it pretty close.


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## Elephant Man (Feb 12, 2007)

BushyKush420 said:
			
		

> this is what i got, im wondering if you mean an outlet that also has a switch on it like one found in a bathroom? which i cant use sort of since the box in the wall is a small box and i would have to cut the drywall. ok now i cant upload the pics?? how do i make the file size smaller? i took it pretty close.


 
Try this: http://www.resize2mail.com/advanced.php


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 13, 2007)

finally got the picture to size.


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## theyorker (Feb 13, 2007)

On the back of the outlet are openings for four wires; 2 white and 2 black.  think of it as completing the circuit, one wire with a outlet in between.  All you have to do is strip the wire a good 1/2" and stick it straight into the opening and it stays securely.  Remember to shut of the breaker at the panel.


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## Brouli (Feb 13, 2007)

not alweys you wolud have 4 wires sometimes is only 3  then  you have to bridge that sucka     little pice of wire goin from + to +    or from - to -


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 13, 2007)

brouli said:
			
		

> not alweys you wolud have 4 wires sometimes is only 3 then you have to bridge that sucka little pice of wire goin from + to + or from - to -


 this is what i got

 and your sure that it would work from 1. being a light switch that controls a light in a different room and this light switch doesnt have an outlet with it. its a plain dual outlet. i just dont want to start a fire..lol so from light switch to outlet will work?? ok


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## Brouli (Feb 13, 2007)

i meant  in your wall you will not alwes have 4 wires two black  two whit you can have 1 black 2 white


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 13, 2007)

brouli said:
			
		

> i meant in your wall you will not alwes have 4 wires two black two whit you can have 1 black 2 white


 
ahh gottcha i just wanna get it right. so whatever amount i have ( if i end up having 1 white and 1 black will that power both plugs or just the ones that i put the wires on..? because there is 2 sets of blk/wht  one looks like its for the top plug and one lower that looks like its for the bottom plug or is that just to run the other wires like for a light? im not to familar with electricity, and i hate working with it.. pls bare with me.


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## Brouli (Feb 13, 2007)

give me a minute


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## Brouli (Feb 13, 2007)

ok   so if you wil have only one white one blak   and ground (you know wher it going )

take 2 small pices of wire and bridge them  just like on the picture , and you  good to go  just remember   ground is most important  i hope  that you have ground wire ??
i f  not take another pice of wire conct on the back of the jack  where ground goes  and other end   to  prame inside the wall   in metal box that holds the jack should be 2 scrues    conect to any one of them and there you go safe jack


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 13, 2007)

brouli said:
			
		

> ok so if you wil have only one white one blak and ground (you know wher it going )
> 
> take 2 small pices of wire and bridge them just like on the picture , and you good to go just remember ground is most important i hope that you have ground wire ??
> i f not take another pice of wire conct on the back of the jack where ground goes and other end to prame inside the wall in metal box that holds the jack should be 2 scrues conect to any one of them and there you go safe jack


 
so i hooked up that outlet and its not working. i had a blk wire and white wire along with a red wire. which i hooked to the green screw.. and now the light in the other room isnt working or the other switch in that same room. the blk was to the hot and the white is to the white and the red is to the green screw.


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 13, 2007)

pic of the hook up


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## Brouli (Feb 13, 2007)

cool  thats godd its workin


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 13, 2007)

brouli said:
			
		

> cool thats godd its workin


 
nah its not working, along with the other light switch in the other room or the light isnt on nemore.. ne suggestions


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## Brouli (Feb 13, 2007)

i knowit i just knowit i didnt wonna killl your buzz man  but the wire that you have who ever that dushbak was he pull wires from your light switch  to powers jack usualy beinde wall  when you read this send me a PM


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## Brouli (Feb 13, 2007)

the red wire you have is not ground wire connect that as + positive  (do you have a power tester ??)  switch them around  just remember i told you you will have 3 wires hahah  sorry 
in europ red means hot in us is black one ,  put black and red as plus and white as minus  if its not workin put white and red as plus and black as minus  and let me know whats up


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 14, 2007)

brouli said:
			
		

> the red wire you have is not ground wire connect that as + positive (do you have a power tester ??) switch them around just remember i told you you will have 3 wires hahah sorry
> in europ red means hot in us is black one , put black and red as plus and white as minus if its not workin put white and red as plus and black as minus and let me know whats up


 
my bad i didnt even realize there was a second page, btw i am in the u.s i dont know why they used a red wire. but theres a black a white and a red. so put the red and the black on the hot and the white on the white of course?? and then nothing on the green screw..??:ccc:


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## Doman (Feb 18, 2007)

Actually in the US, white is the hot, black is the ground.  (Make sure you don't plug any polarized equipment into this outlet if you don't believe me lol).  The green you can usually bolt a wire to the electrical box, or the redneck way, which is just attach a wire to the outlet, then let it touch the inside of the box.  Thats how my neighbors house is set up.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 25, 2007)

If you have a switch controlling a light from two locations, you have a 3-way switch. there will be 2 wires comming in, white, and black (of course a bare one too). Then there will be 3 wires leaving. Black, White, and Red which will go to the switch in the other room. If you want an outlet in your closet instead of a switch, but want to use the switch and light in the other room this is what you need to do. Look at the wires and decide where they come from. Attach the wires feeding to the receptacle. Black to brass, white to silver, and the bare wire to the green. Make sure that bare is still around the screw in the box. Then attach the black wire going to the other room to the other brass screw and the white to the other silver. Make sure the ones going in with power are on the top, and the ones leaving on the bottom. (green screw goes down, thats how you tell the right way). The red wire will no longer be used. Marrette the end just in case something else is feeding that wire. Also, make sure the bare wiring going to the other switch is also under the screw in the box (not on the receptacle). Go to the switch in the other room and take that switch out. Put a marrette on the red wire again. Now you will need a single pole switch. you can no longer use that 3 way switch. put the switch so that when it is in the "off" position, the toggle (part u flight up and down) is facing down. Put the black wire comming into the box on the top brass screw. Then put the black wire going to the light on the bottom brass screw. The two white wires dont go to this switch, and neither does the bare ground. You must marette the two white wires together so they continue on. The ground (bare wires) will probably already attached to the box. 

Sounds complicated, but it's really not. I can try to video tape it and upload it if you want a demonstration. 

If you open it up and there isnt 3 wires, it's not a 3 way. Come back and post again and I'll figure it out. Maybe take some picutres of it for me.

IMPORTANT: Turn the power off! Plug a radio into the outlet and turn it up high. turn the breakers off one by one until it shuts off making sure to turn back on the other ones. You can go to homedepot and get what is called a greenlee gt-11. It detect electrical current in the black wire only. Turn it on, stick it over the black wire. If it buzzes you didn't get it turned off. This costs about 20$ and the switch will cost about 85 cents.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 25, 2007)

Holy crap. I just looked at the picture you have. You're lucky you didn't blow up your receptacle and blow your breaker to ****. 

A) white is not hot, it is called a "neutral" but in some cases "an identified conductor". It carries the imballenced load, and also completes a circuit.

in your picture you have the red wire (hot) on your ground screw. Other then that it looks like your wiring is correct. Dont use the red at all. Put the bare where the red is. Now to get your switch working put the other black on the same side as your other black, and the other white on the same side as your white. Also change the switch in the other room as I told you above.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 25, 2007)

Actually, good new is. Your receptacle should be working right now LoL and as I realize, the red isn't carrying anything, So it wouldn't have done any harm. Just take it off and cap it off and get your ground on there.


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 25, 2007)

finally got it


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 25, 2007)

not finally got it working either... just the paintjob but its a link instead of a thumbnail.

my outlet is not working yet 

and there is only one set of ( 3) wires for each box. they all are in the same caseing white black and red. NO BARE ones... 

so just use the black and white in the closet and cap the RED ???


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## Brouli (Feb 25, 2007)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 


I love advices in your post
let me know when you got it to work 


:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 25, 2007)

No still nothing Brouli its been a hellion i dont know maybe theres to much power drawing from the computer room...


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## Brouli (Feb 25, 2007)

no that got nothing to do with amount of power


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 25, 2007)

oh ok.. and how do u get reputations? are those the green dots ?


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## Brouli (Feb 25, 2007)

yeaaa  go to your User CP   and on the bottom you see who give you some i see you got 2 boxes now


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## WrEkkED (Feb 25, 2007)

Man, without a bare ground, I wouldn't touch the thing. You could plug in something that needs a ground like a drill and get yourself electrocuted. Can you take a picture of the box for me? like take out the switch/receptacle in the closet and let me see the whole thing. and do the same for the other switch.


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 25, 2007)

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9766


these are the pics of the outlet

 the blue wire was one i put in and was not originally there, the yellow tinted pics are those of the closet and the white normal looking pics are those of the computer room..


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## Growdude (Feb 26, 2007)

The problem is you have a 3 way crkt and the power wire can be fed to the light first or any of the 3 way switches.

From your pictures I only see 3 wires at each switch so the feed wire is in your light fixtures box.

There the white wire will be going directly to the light.
Here is your problem, you have no neutral wire in your switch box, you only are switching the hot wire beetween the 2 switches.

You need to take the light fixture down and see if you have a hot feed in there, it will be a 2 conducter wire.Also there should be the 3 wire from each switch for a total of 8 wires in there.

Do what WrEkkED said and put a single pole switch where you want the switch and wire the Hot to go down to that switch and back to the light.
(Ex. use the black wire that goes to the switch and wire it to the Hot then take the red one from the switch and wire it to the light.)

That should make the light work.

Then take the Hot at the light and wire it to you new outlet, you will have to take the white wire and connect it to the neutral wire at the light.

And the outlet should be Working.

Here is a link to a picture of a 3 way switches wireing. http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/3wayswitch.html
This picture is how I believe yours is wired.


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 26, 2007)

Man this is confusing as all h*ll, but ill try this and see what happens...


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 26, 2007)

(qoute from GROWDUDE) 

Do what WrEkkED said and put a single pole switch where you want the switch and wire the Hot to go down to that switch and back to the light.
(Ex. use the black wire that goes to the switch and wire it to the Hot then take the red one from the switch and wire it to the light.)


So i need to change the switch in the computer room ( where the light is located) or just change the wirings?


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## Growdude (Feb 26, 2007)

BushyKush420 said:
			
		

> (qoute from GROWDUDE)
> 
> Do what WrEkkED said and put a single pole switch where you want the switch and wire the Hot to go down to that switch and back to the light.
> (Ex. use the black wire that goes to the switch and wire it to the Hot then take the red one from the switch and wire it to the light.)
> ...


 
If you wire it to just the common and one pole or terminal on the switch it will work.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 26, 2007)

Ok...

After studying these pictures over and over, and writting this instruction about 3 times and erasing it each time, I have come to the conclusuion that only one thing can save you, a complete rewire. 

I'd stick that old switch in and leave it be. You don't have enough wires for that receptacle. point blank, it's not possible. I kept thinking I could, obviously going against all safety codes, but the laws of physics won't allow it either. 

They have the neutral go right to the light and doesn;t go through either box. I'd bet you 1000$ it's in the ceiling and totally unaccessable. The black "hot" goes into the switch and has a white (now known as an identified condutor, and in this case a traveler) and the red is a traveler too. They go into the 3 way switch in the other room and the black "hot" will then go to the light at that point. They don't do new homes for reasons like this, but unfortunatly, that's the way it goes. You could get it working, but you have have to cut some holes into your walls and repatch them. Wouldn't be hard, just time consuming. I don't know if it's worth it to you or not. 

Sorry about the bad luck! I would just run an extension cord from another location if you need power in your closet.


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## Brouli (Feb 26, 2007)

it is possible   just figure it out


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## WrEkkED (Feb 26, 2007)

LoL I wish it was that simple. Unfortunatly it's not


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 27, 2007)

i guess i dont need it that bad

 it would just be alot more effective or would just be a less extension cord,, but oh well not a big deal

ill just put the switch back in.. thanks alot for all your guys help..


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## WrEkkED (Feb 27, 2007)

I really thought it would work. But once I saw those pics and thought about it. It just can't be done without doing some work. If you had a guy come in who knew what he was doing he could have it done in an hour for you no problem. But who wants to pay an electrician 60$ an hour to come over LoL


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## Growdude (Feb 27, 2007)

WrEkkED said:
			
		

> Ok...
> 
> After studying these pictures over and over, and writting this instruction about 3 times and erasing it each time, I have come to the conclusuion that only one thing can save you, a complete rewire.
> 
> ...


 
How do you think they have white going to the light and the hot to one of the switches?
Is this knob and tube wiring? or is it romex?

All I need to see is a picture of the light fixtures box, if you have both 3 wire pairs and the feed wire you can do it.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 27, 2007)

it's romex. So yes you will always have 2 wires, but since this is a 3 way they used the white and red for travelors. the white is no longer a neutral because there is no return path via it. It's hard to explain what they do, so I will draw a diagram on paint.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 27, 2007)

LoL after racking my brain on how they did this. I actually have no clue. They must have done smething crazy like this diagram...


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## Growdude (Feb 27, 2007)

WrEkkED said:
			
		

> it's romex. So yes you will always have 2 wires, but since this is a 3 way they used the white and red for travelors. the white is no longer a neutral because there is no return path via it. It's hard to explain what they do, so I will draw a diagram on paint.


 
You are 100% correct cant be done, your one wire short.
It is just like in this link http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/3wayswitch.html

You only have the hot and a switched leg coming from the light so your one wire short to bring the neutral down to a switch.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 27, 2007)

http://upload6.postimage.org/467034/photo_hosting.html

in today's world that is totally unnaceptable and should be something like this...

blue line = ceiling

http://upload6.postimage.org/467112/photo_hosting.html


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## WrEkkED (Feb 27, 2007)

for a receptacle you need this...

http://upload6.postimage.org/467170/photo_hosting.html

note: for all wirings, if the wire doesnt touch the brown box, it means it just gets marretted and continues on. It doesn't touch any of the switches or recptacle.


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 27, 2007)

ok guys thanks for all you input... i really appreciate it.. i dont think i spelled that right oh well..

lol smoke sum of this yummy kinda piney...


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## WrEkkED (Feb 27, 2007)

mmmm...yummy...can i smoke it all in one shot?


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 27, 2007)

oh sheet you can try it if you want, but i guarantee you dont make it thru the whole blunt...  lol


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## TURKEYNECK (Feb 27, 2007)

This isnt that complicated. if there was a switch there then because whever wired the house was using romex they sent a hot to the switch(probably black) and on the other terminal(closed) the used a non-typical color (red? White?) to send the power to the light once the contact is made(flip the switch)... you may need to get in the attic and change a few things..



> Actually in the US, white is the hot, black is the ground.


 hahaha who told you that? White is neutral(common) Black is hot(110) and green or bare copper is ground, If a red AND black are present it usually indicates TWO hot feeds of 110 which would be used for 220v....
This is not only a rule of thumb but it's code in the U.S.... But that doesnt mean that everyone does it by code.

Also..most every recepticle has a built in jumper made of thin metal, if you look closely between the two terminals on each side you will see them. they CAN be removed easily but I doubt it has been. There is no need for a jumper unless you are wiring two recepticals in a 4x4 box.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 28, 2007)

In the electrical world, residential electricians are the worst for code. They will do just enough to pass LoL they will conceal boxes in the ceiling etc. back in the day, code wasn't as up to par. 

The problem with the way the wiring is here, for adding a receptacle, you need 4 wires. 2 in, 2 out, theres only 3 there. Unless of course he didn't want to keep his switch and light in the other room.

You are also totally correct that you can use 2 wires for 240v, but in this case only the black is hot and they use the red as a traveler. 

LoL and ya that little jumper isn't needed. I didn't know if it was a duplex or not but was going to address that once I figured out all the wiring.


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## WrEkkED (Feb 28, 2007)

o and, I bet I do make it through the whole blunt...

sleeping LoL


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## BushyKush420 (Feb 28, 2007)

lol sleeping with the last of it burning and start a fire..

if my hair caught on fire, and i fell out a 5 story window, if i got hit by a bus. matter fact yo *** didnt even get hit by a bus... lol from the movie how high theres a bit more as sum may know...


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## WrEkkED (Feb 28, 2007)

i wanna get highhhhhh so highhhhhhh

I may fall asleep and start a fire, but i'll tell you this. It will be one hell of a fun ride to hell. hehe


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## dan2007 (Feb 28, 2007)

http://www.electricalknowledge.com/images/Simple3Way.gif

way a 3 way switch works

first thing is wiring

14/2 wire has 3 wires in it

black = the hot wire
white = neutral wire
copper = ground

14/3 wire has 4 wires in it

black = hot
red = hot
white = neutral
copper = ground

14/2 wire goes from your fuse box to your switch, then 14/3 wire goes from switch to switch ( this is th how the three way works, look at link ) ,


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## TURKEYNECK (Mar 1, 2007)

Hey WreKKed Just so you know I wasnt trying to start a debate, it just gets confusing when you have 10 different people who ARENT electricians telling this man things like "white is hot black is ground" haha sorry doucher...thats silly tho.


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## dan2007 (Mar 1, 2007)

you really need a circut tester to find were the power is

the power can come to the light then to the switches

http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/3wayswitch.html

this has nice pics on the side

http://www.relaxandrenovate.com/articleshow.asp?story=230&titleimage=

look over pics, it shows were the differnt power sources could be

dan


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## Growdude (Mar 1, 2007)

dan2007 said:
			
		

> you really need a circut tester to find were the power is
> 
> the power can come to the light then to the switches
> 
> ...


 
You really should read the thread before posting the same info and link that I provided on page 2.


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## dan2007 (Mar 1, 2007)

Growdude said:
			
		

> You really should read the thread before posting the same info and link that I provided on page 2.


 

you are correct, it was a long thread

the second link i posted was not the same

second, your one link is showing the power coming to the light in all diagrams,

my second link shows how the power source can come in at different locations

lol, is all i can say for messing up trying to help someone, and messing up someone elses credit


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## Growdude (Mar 1, 2007)

dan2007 said:
			
		

> you are correct, it was a long thread
> 
> the second link i posted was not the same
> 
> ...


 
Its cool sorry if I was a prick


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## WrEkkED (Mar 2, 2007)

i never even seen it as a debate LoL it's good when everyone gives advice cuz everyone misses something at some point 

I thought this would work at first... until I thought it over.


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## WrEkkED (Mar 2, 2007)

if the power went to the light first, the light would always be on. that's how we know it doesn't 

I thought of that too. And was like yea... that won't work LoL


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## Growdude (Mar 2, 2007)

WrEkkED said:
			
		

> if the power went to the light first, the light would always be on. that's how we know it doesn't
> 
> I thought of that too. And was like yea... that won't work LoL


 
The power wire can enter at the light or any of the 3 way switches.
If it enters at the light only the neutral wire is connected to the light the hot runs back to the switches and up to the light as seen in this example.
http://www.handymanwire.com/articles/3wayswitch.html.

If this is the case the only way it will work is to get rid of the light as you are one wire short to bring down the neutral a hot and the switched leg.


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## WrEkkED (Mar 3, 2007)

I don't think they could have done that since they dont have any wires comming out of the bottom of the one box. 

But good call on the wiring going to the light first. I def didn't think of that. 

If they did do that problem is you have no neutral because it stopped at the light. You can wire it to be, but that light will be on whenever the receptacle is on. so if your doing 24 hour lighting on your plants, that light will be on 24 hours. If you want to do that, I can tell you how. Do'nt know if it will work or not because of the wiring. But might be worth looking in your light box to see how the wiring is.


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## ruastonerfocker (Mar 4, 2007)

"Up to code" This is where the dreaded code comes from,The N.E.C,actually compiled by,or helped compiled by Firefighting Personnel.Google the National Electrical Code.Very few places,both residential and especially Industrial are truly up to code.And yes the switch is very simple to install,remember black to brass will fry your' ***.Black or red to the brass screw,white=neutral.When in doubt lock it out! the power.


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## manicure (Mar 4, 2007)

did the house burn down or did you figure it out


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## manicure (Mar 4, 2007)

just kidding... do you have an attic


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## BushyKush420 (Mar 4, 2007)

no not yet lol lol son of a ***** lol jus playin 

nah im gonna just skip it, its not my house and the attic is kinda small and im a kinda big guy and dont wanna fall thru the ceiling 

the extra outlet just would have been a lot better but i can still manage...

THANKS ALOT to ALL you guys and or girls for your help you guys deserve sum rep for that


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## WrEkkED (Mar 5, 2007)

LoL yea the code is written by lawyers too.. what the hell do they know about electricity?


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## manicure (Mar 5, 2007)

seriously, i have installed recepticles in place of 3 way switches by switching the wires around above the light fixture or behind one switch and changing one switch to a regular spst switch. it is easily done using a volt meter to locate the main input behind one switch or above the light and using the existing wire that goes to the other 3 way switch as a direct lead to the outlet. the key is to locate the main input lead. from the pictures that i have looked at that you posted, i gather that the main isnt in the closet, so it would have to be in the box above the light fixture or behind the switch in the computer room. pm me if you are still interested. i am a liscensed electrician for low and high voltages


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## WrEkkED (Mar 5, 2007)

the only problem is i dont see a neutral anywhere? where is that sucker hidding. The white going to both boxes is being used as a traveler. Would love to see if you get this working. Always good to learn something new! (seeing as I'm a lowely apprentice)


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