# Ebb & Flow



## sopappy

Here's the upper tray with the cover and net pots removed.
Still some water left in there... can I live with this for the ebbin and flowin and just suck it all out when i change rez once a week?

The cover with the net pots is most difficult. I figured 2 inch rigid foam strong enough but it's waaaaay too thick, water rises only to less than half the cup!

I need thinner, say 3/8 or 1/2 inch... all I can think of is wood and I hate to use wood... see those bumps on the bottom, if I sit the net pots sit on those, no weight, I could just use thin plastic sheet to block light.

2nd question... can the bottom of the pots sit on the tray bottom or will the roots be really upset about that (I'm thinking they'll just fill those channels and coome out the sides)

Thanks 

View attachment waterleft.JPG


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## Hushpuppy

I haven't done any ebb n flow/flood n drain type of hydro but I believe that tray is made for the smaller rockwool cubes to set in place right on the bottom of the tray. The channels allow the excess water to drain out of the cubes so that they don't stay sogged.
However it sounds like you are trying(or thinking) to do a hybrid setup where it becomes a flood/dwc and drain, as it sounds like you are wanting to suspend the netpots above the bottom of the tray.

On the one hand I like that idea as you would be keeping the root area sealed in to prevent the external roots from drying and dying. But its efficiency is determined by how deep the water gets at full flood. You could use a piece of 1/4" plexi glass and cut holes for the netpots to sit all the way down in the sheet. Then pain the plexi sheet white to block out light from the tray. Plus the white will prevent the light from making the tray overly warm. That is what I use in my larger tote system where my netpots hang down inside my totes. The plexi is strong enough to hold the weight and won't absorb moisture  like plywood (which makes it heavy and mold susceptible).

The important thing though if you use the plexi sheet as a netpot holder, you have to be sure that the flooding will thoroughly soak the contents of the netpots before it drains back as this will feed and water them well before allowing them to completely drain and begin drying cycle.

quote: Still some water left in there... can I live with this for the ebbin and flowin and just suck it all out when i change rez once a week?
That should be fine. You most likely won't even have to remove the plants to suck out any left behind moisture. Each time it floods and drains it flushes the older water out that was sitting in the bottom. You should only have to clean that after each plant cycle.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> I snipped,)



Incredible. ordered the sheet you describe last week. Picked up the 1/4 inch piece of acrylic (food grade) Friday afternoon. 31 outside, no A/C in here, So far sitting at 19.7 and my RDWC needs cooling with the coils running several times a day to keep it below 20 
T5s are pretty warm too, that white is yuge.

These are not fem seeds, I detest fem seeds and don't like bruce caitlin either, it's effed up, puny seedlings, weakly, sensitive plants, never again.

I'm hoping to go to flower in this thing, males will be unceremoniously pulled and roots hacked off if they don't untangle. If i can keep those back-ups in the pots alive, some fems to fill holes too hopefully 

re-assuring re the puddles, good point 

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## sopappy

The plants sitting in diapers on top are back-ups. Of the original 20, I picked the smallest plants for the tray, hoping that they are the girls. These are mostly males I hope.


ZEM commented on the rapid rooters and now when i look at these plants, they look OVERWATERED
I'm dropping the level to just below the plugs... read that somewhere, now I see why...
those things stay too soggy methinks... I switching to those OASIS cubes 

View attachment backups.jpg


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## sopappy

and here's my ebb and flow seeder/cloner thingie inspired by Weedhopper 

View attachment seed ebbandflow.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

That looks good. Ideal for small personal grower to get a nice yield. The key for them is to keep them small and bushy or allow them to shoot 6-8 colas each so that they don't crowd each other out or stretch in competition for light. You may have to do some tactical trimming as they get larger.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> That looks good. Ideal for small personal grower to get a nice yield. The key for them is to keep them small and bushy or allow them to shoot 6-8 colas each so that they don't crowd each other out or stretch in competition for light. You may have to do some tactical trimming as they get larger.



I tried LST and (it's probably my LEDs) but growth was not much different than leaving them alone, ie 2 or 4 smaller colas = one big one is what I found
so this time I wasn't going to touch them, if I run out of height, supercrop

The root growth blew me away, I swear I saw movement hahaha
I'm converting my RDWC buckets to Ebb&Flo
Biggest headache is 125L rez, think I could find some HDPE black container I could use? nooooo


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## WeedHopper

Never tried Ebb and flow,,,love DWC though.
Like your setup.. green mojo to yas.


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## Hushpuppy

LEDs seem to change a lot of the parameters of indoor growing. By the 3rd or 4th run you will have all of the details worked out and the system dialed in. Then you will see the yields 

The large rez can be challenging for the larger hydro systems. I actually have my rez outside of the flower room so that it isn't taking up room there, and it stays cooler. I still find that I need to put frozen 2ltr bottles of frozen water in the rez during the summer months to keep the temps around 70f. Ideal water temp is 68f but mine has reached 73f without causing issues. Above 73f and issues begin.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> LEDs seem to change a lot of the parameters of indoor growing. By the 3rd or 4th run you will have all of the details worked out and the system dialed in. Then you will see the yields
> 
> The large rez can be challenging for the larger hydro systems. I actually have my rez outside of the flower room so that it isn't taking up room there, and it stays cooler. I still find that I need to put frozen 2ltr bottles of frozen water in the rez during the summer months to keep the temps around 70f. Ideal water temp is 68f but mine has reached 73f without causing issues. Above 73f and issues begin.



outside of the flower room, hahaha, we're connected telepathically I tells ya.
I'm running around trying to get 125mL flexi-tank this week, and I'm in the grow shop this am, when it hits me, why not buy a larger footprint tub and put it outside the flower room, cooler too...it was about 1130am EST (what were you doing? harhar)

I fashioned some cooling coils but it is a horrible water hog, I was shooting for 67, I had Pythium once, you saying I could get away with 70, even 73...
always the trade-offs 

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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Never tried Ebb and flow,,,love DWC though.
> Like your setup.. green mojo to yas.



whaaa? I thought you were the guy doing the ebb and flow clone thing.


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## WeedHopper

Nope,,,i clone in a Bubbler.


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Nope,,,i clone in a Bubbler.




I'm going to try cloning 10 in each of these. Rapid rooter/hydroton sits in net pot on heating pad.
water pumped up to fill both trays then drains
somebody else is doing this, not my idea

My connection to the trays is too strong for the plastic and it won't take much movement before it'll crack or tear... 
all I can think of is encasing the mess in an epoxy 

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## sopappy

Tons of CO2 in here today. Modified my 2 and 3 bucket systems into 1 ebb&flow...
The REZ is barely big enough at 110L with an inch to spare
I'm putting one of those boy peeing statue fountain in there
That's the control bucket with the pumps and REZ on other side 

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View attachment 2ndrez.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

sopappy said:


> outside of the flower room, hahaha, we're connected telepathically I tells ya.
> I'm running around trying to get 125mL flexi-tank this week, and I'm in the grow shop this am, when it hits me, why not buy a larger footprint tub and put it outside the flower room, cooler too...it was about 1130am EST (what were you doing? harhar)
> 
> I fashioned some cooling coils but it is a horrible water hog, I was shooting for 67, I had Pythium once, you saying I could get away with 70, even 73...
> always the trade-offs


 
I think I was working on a heavy duty welding machine at that time (I think). I am paying for it now with sore back muscles that are slowly healing from surgery. But I digress 

You can allow the water to get to 73f but don't let it stay there. It reduces the amount of oxygen that can stay dissolved in the water and the plants aren't thrilled. You can get away with maintaining 70-71f but if you can get it under 70f that is best.

If you have trouble keeping it cool enough once you have the bigger rez set up, you can get a small chiller and I can walk you through a nice setup that is relatively easy to build and it will work flawlessly. The portable chillers are a bit spendy but if you have trouble in a medium sized grow with keeping the water cool enough, they are worth the money.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> I think I was working on a heavy duty welding machine at that time (I think). I am paying for it now with sore back muscles that are slowly healing from surgery. But I digress
> 
> >>>I wouldn't be doing that if I'd had surgery, don't be messing with that. I guess if you've no choice, Warm up and gentle stretching before doing anything. But I'd strengthen my back before doing anything else. Back exercises, get at 'em
> 
> You can allow the water to get to 73f but don't let it stay there. It reduces the amount of oxygen that can stay dissolved in the water and the plants aren't thrilled. You can get away with maintaining 70-71f but if you can get it under 70f that is best.
> 
> >>>Oh, okay, not for long at 73, great, I get it, I won't chance that, I keep the water between 19.5 and 20 (damn Trudeau AND his boy!)
> I mean about 68 so yes, water ALWAYS less than 70
> 
> If you have trouble keeping it cool enough once you have the bigger rez set up, you can get a small chiller and I can walk you through a nice setup that is relatively easy to build and it will work flawlessly. The portable chillers are a bit spendy but if you have trouble in a medium sized grow with keeping the water cool enough, they are worth the money.



see >>> up there, HP
>>> nope, no trouble, water cheaper for me so I use coils sitting in the reZ, I read I can let ambient get to more than 80 degrees doing that so I am now looking at HPS again 
NOT THAT THERE"S ANYTHING WRONG WITH LEDS


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## zem

sopappy i did not read it all but i get the picture very well, your cloning tray is very well designed to keep the pots raised from any water puddles. what i am not sure about is those rapid rooters, as i never used them and don't know how much they wick water, i use the same system using oasis foam cubes that can be flooded indefinitely as long as they drain without sitting in a puddle of water. also i make a bigger box and i places the cfl inside to warm things up, with this i can drop the heating mat save power electric outlets and have less equipment. i flood my plants as high as i can just below the surface to prevent algae. i also do not use any bubbler since my water is being flooded and recirculated every 2 hours in the 12 hours light period,  then shuts off for 12 hours when my light shuts off. i find occasional use of h2o2 to clear possible larvae and clean dead roots between grows very useful. Do not over stress or be anal about cleaning and recycling your rocks. i have been trying to get some root disease to grow in that system for years with no success, by cleaning less and letting more root fragments in there, then using h2o2, never gotten any root disease, hell that last run for my veggies i had some growbags that had a lot of root residues that were all over, those veggies are now producing all alike with the bags that are brand new rocks and old root contaminated ones equal, and i only used one h2o2 application in the beginning.
i am not encouraging you to not clean, i still clean for my mj much more than for my veggies just to be safe, and my veggies are more than 100 plants so cleanin all that would be a hassle if i had been more thorough. i am only giving you a good picture of what to expect after years of practice. you might also find it good to cover the growrocks on the top to prevent too much humidity from below the canopy


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## sopappy

Thanks for the comments, Zem. Dam, I just bought a bag of rooters! 
Never heard of those cubes! I'm switching, the young ones look overwatered to me now, but yet, I saturate the mature ones too and they look fine.
But I think you are right, I just lowered levels of both tanks to just below the plug, best I can do until next batch.
Those cubes look perfect, I had only thought of rockwool or similar which I never liked
and the rooter saved me but onward and upward!

I learned from that water prep poll was to even bubble my storage water (pre-change)
I have ton's o' bubbling going on, I don't think you can overdo it except for the cost :-(
I have a 'flume' going in my big rez, I get a fountain when the plants flood


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## sopappy

Hey G13, I'm anxious for my new labels. I don't know whether that little guy on the ping pong table is 81 or 18 

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## sopappy

I'm babbling something fierce today... sativa, hang in, one more
Look at this oddball hanging there? 3-4 weeks veg, and I saw this, just the one and only on this plant... 
I've since lost track of it and not a male in there, weird looking thing

just to left of date stamp in top pic
just below cluster in top pic 

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## Hushpuppy

that looks male to me. I got nothing against LGTV but in MJ? noooooo


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## WeedHopper

Balls for sure.


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## sopappy

oh no oh no oh no, I can't find it
I shouldn't work ripped down there, but must have chucked it, hope so


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## Hushpuppy

Ive said it before.... Never work on your grow while baked :doh: Don't worry too much, just keep a close eye on them. You have some time to spot them again before they begin spreading trouble.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Lol, hush, if I never worked on my grow baked, nothing would get done.


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## sopappy

Went hunting balls after my scare yesterday and look at these, about a month old and sacks of grapes, my eyes popped. 
I planted a batch of 10 regulars and set aside the taller ones.... sure enough, these are 3 of them
Does that yellowing look like overwatering? 

View attachment 3bastards.jpg


View attachment balls.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

:doh: I do it too so I cant preach. Them little buggers will generally give themselves away long before they spread any trouble, as long as you keep a close eye on them.

That looks like the general wear-n-tear that the bottom leaves get to me. You should see the bottoms of my plants sometimes. I clean them up before taking any pics so my stuff doesn't look bad


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## Hushpuppy

THG: I do it but I find that if I only burn 1 bowl before doing any work, then pack another, then do my work so that I get to have my second bowl when the work is done. If I wonder off without finishing, I will come back for the bowl and finish the work. :doh:


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## sopappy

wear & tear, first time I've heard that one
I thought perhaps i shouldn't be saturating the rooter so I lowered levels but no difference really, 

Here's my entry into the ebb & flow cloner category, 
all my **** is ebb & flo now, I just couldn't stop. 

I have two nice stones in my big rez and I just added a circulating pump, I figure 5 minutes every half hour (to save on the electricity).

I guess that's it for my "set up & designing" 
1 new system, 1 modified, and an ebbing clone thingie.

Lots of fun but I think my money would have been better spent on lights

I'll have clones starting this week, along with some going into flower and the ones in veg so I'm heading back to my so-so grow thread.
Could be entertaining, do stop by. Keep an eye on things 

View attachment ebbclone.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

That looks good to me. Just don't whack one of the trays with your elbow and send it flying, like I would do :doh:


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> That looks good to me. Just don't whack one of the trays with your elbow and send it flying, like I would do :doh:



I've spent lots of time picking pebbles off the floor, I am quite slow moving in there now. Too many hanging wires and things. I can see myself falling into either set-up, man would I trash the place if that happened.

I am totally failing with the clone thing. I got in to it a bit on Keef's old fart club thread. It's a lot harder than it looks.
Frankly, I think the trickiest part is picking the right branch.


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## Hushpuppy

Oh yeah picking the right branch is important. That is the bad thing about cloning; there are several parameters that are important and lots of variables that can screw them up. I look for branches that are low on the plant but also are strong and healthy. I look for stems that are sturdy but not yet "woody". I try to find the stems that are about 6" long, with at least 4 leaf nodes. I like stems that are generally about 5mm in diameter. I try to get branches that I can do a final cut 1/4" below a leaf node, so that I can cut off the leaf flush and expose more inner flesh where roots develop, but still have a good 4-5" of stem. 

I cut off all but the top 4 leaves, and those I cut in half if they are big. I do my final cut after everything else is ready so that I can dip it quickly into my cloning gel to prevent embolisms, then stick it into my solo cup of medium. When I used the "Rapid Rooters", I used a pencil to open the hole in the plug to slide the cutting in place about 80% of the depth of the plug. 

Its critical to keep them either covered or in an enclosed environment where you can maintain 75-80f and 70-80% humidity. Then I place them under bloom spectrum light at about 50-60% of the lumens for veg. Then just keep the plugs moist but not soaked. When I used the RR plugs, I kept the hydroton wet beneath them but never got water on them. I instead checked them 2x a day and added about 8-10ml of water to each plug if it felt/looked dry, which wasn't but once a day until they got their roots going.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Oh yeah picking the right branch is important. That is the bad thing about cloning; there are several parameters that are important and lots of variables that can screw them up. I look for branches that are low on the plant but also are strong and healthy. I look for stems that are sturdy but not yet "woody". I try to find the stems that are about 6" long, with at least 4 leaf nodes. I like stems that are generally about 5mm in diameter. I try to get branches that I can do a final cut 1/4" below a leaf node, so that I can cut off the leaf flush and expose more inner flesh where roots develop, but still have a good 4-5" of stem.
> 
> I cut off all but the top 4 leaves, and those I cut in half if they are big. I do my final cut after everything else is ready so that I can dip it quickly into my cloning gel to prevent embolisms, then stick it into my solo cup of medium. When I used the "Rapid Rooters", I used a pencil to open the hole in the plug to slide the cutting in place about 80% of the depth of the plug.
> 
> Its critical to keep them either covered or in an enclosed environment where you can maintain 75-80f and 70-80% humidity. Then I place them under bloom spectrum light at about 50-60% of the lumens for veg. Then just keep the plugs moist but not soaked. When I used the RR plugs, I kept the hydroton wet beneath them but never got water on them. I instead checked them 2x a day and added about 8-10ml of water to each plug if it felt/looked dry, which wasn't but once a day until they got their roots going.



We're out of sync, HP, I always read these after the fact
but I'm pretty close to what you describe.
Do I or do I not mist the plants directly.... I just sprayed the dome insides


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## sopappy

Here's 3rd try.... left tray are the 2nd attempt and I stripped leaves cause they drooped.
right tray is better but I'll cut those big leaves in half
no hydroton in there but the plugs don't sit in puddles, i touch plugs for moist
syringe 10mL if getting dryish.

I have not misted at all, I spray insides of dome.
plug temp is around 24/25 (75), ambient a couple degrees higher (all under dome)
95 rh in there this am, removed dome until 80RH, sprayed insides and covered again 

View attachment thirdgoround.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

I spray my clones when I put them in the 2ltr soda bottle domes, and I spray the domes as well. I do this once a day for the first week. then less as they seem to hold their own. Then I start removing the domes for short periods and then longer periods. You will find some variation in how much misting the plants like depending on the strain. I also put just a couple drops of rooting tonic in my misting water so that they get a little foliar feed to help them along. Some plants love this, and some hate it.

I personally don't like to leave my rooter plugs open like you have yours because it allows for too much drying, too fast, but under the larger dome it may not be an issue. I also cut off any larger leaves before putting them into the cloner, and only leave smaller leaves or cut them in half. It seems to help hold the plants in suspended animation while the rooting hormones take over. 

If you have large leaves under light, they want to do their "veg" function and that slows the rooting function, and the leaves continue to lose water due to normal "veg" function which robs the clone of moisture that it currently has difficulty retrieving from the plug due to being cut. The cut stump will absorb moisture through "capillary" action but it is no-ways as efficient as what just a couple roots are able to do. That is also why we keep the air very moist. It prevents the cuttings from losing water as fast and allows them to take in a little from the air.


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## WeedHopper

Good read Hush.


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## DirtyDiana

Too complicated. Aero cloning is uncomplicated. I get about 90 to 100% of my clones.


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## Hushpuppy

Aerocloning is an excellent way to go if you are doing a significant amount of cloning. Even the bubble cloners work great (if all of the conditions are right). But for doing smaller grows, the aero/bubble cloners took up too much space for me.

If you are cloning 10+ every time then the EZ-Cloner is an awesome machine to have.


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## sopappy

DirtyDiana said:


> Too complicated. Aero cloning is uncomplicated. I get about 90 to 100% of my clones.



That and look what I'm putting HP through. (much appreciated, HP)
The trays are great for seeds but this is just not working for clones.
I may have to get one of these but I'm only perhaps a dozen a time


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> I spray my clones when I put them in the 2ltr soda bottle domes, and I spray the domes as well. I do this once a day for the first week. then less as they seem to hold their own.
> 
> I can't spray these wimps, the weight of the drops.
> they bend eventually, that's what happens, see pic, two in front promising, one in back is what the end up looking like, don't get it,
> 
> Then I start removing the domes for short periods and then longer periods. You will find some variation in how much misting the plants like depending on the strain. I also put just a couple drops of rooting tonic in my misting water so that they get a little foliar feed to help them along. Some plants love this, and some hate it.
> 
> my clones aren't having any of this , ready to throw in the towel
> 
> I personally don't like to leave my rooter plugs open like you have yours because it allows for too much drying, too fast, but under the larger dome it may not be an issue.
> 
> mine are still damp to touch 24hrs later, I ca watch color shade on side of plug go down the plug
> 3 ft from 2 x T5 room temps, 80 - 95 HUM, I remove dome at 90 until 80 again, spray dome,
> 
> I also cut off any larger leaves before putting them into the cloner, and only leave smaller leaves or cut them in half. It seems to help hold the plants in suspended animation while the rooting hormones take over.
> 
> doesn't seem to help, should lamp be off ???
> 
> If you have large leaves under light, they want to do their "veg" function and that slows the rooting function, and the leaves continue to lose water due to normal "veg" function which robs the clone of moisture that it currently has difficulty retrieving from the plug due to being cut. The cut stump will absorb moisture through "capillary" action but it is no-ways as efficient as what just a couple roots are able to do. That is also why we keep the air very moist. It prevents the cuttings from losing water as fast and allows them to take in a little from the air.
> 
> aha, nevermind
> thanks as usual, HP



above
I'm taking this to my so-so grows grow thread HP, my "designing" is done HA!!


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## sopappy

Now that I've modified my RDWC to ebb and flow, I'm reading that RDWC is considerably better for growth and yields, where E&F is only slightly better than earth. (youtube video)

The only difference (to the plant) that I can see, is that the roots do better sitting in nuted, oxygenated water than they do in air.

So, I could modify my systems again. Add a drain pump instead of gravity and re-circulate the water say 2 inches below the net pots and then every 2 or 3 hours, flood up the rest of the way and pump down to 2" below again.

Is this a form of insanity?


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## Hushpuppy

I wouldn't do too much adjusting and changing. Do a run like you have it and try to get it dialed in. Most of these different methods are good solid methods that just have to take the time to get the particulars correct. If they weren't good methods, you wouldn't see anyone here using them. 

Don't put too much faith in what you see others doing on yutube or even in books. try to remember what they are doing and wait to see if that becomes a trend. There are multiple ways to grow MJ very successfully, it just takes time to find the method that works best in your situation and fits your personal likes. If you make too many changes too fast, you will get all your parameters and knowledge of growing confused, and you will end up chasing your tail.

My bro did that. He wouldn't settle on one method and try to dial that one method in, and it cost him in yields and problems, and frustrations. Regardless of the methods you use, you have to dial them in before you can truly decide if they are the right methods for you.

I love my hybridized RDWC in coco coir, in smartpots with top feed, using a special blend of synthetic and organic nutes  but it has taken me 5 years to truly dial it in to get the yields(and flavors) that I get. I have never tried E&F but only because I dialed in my method and am very happy with it. Don't get in a hurry or jump from method to method.

At the same time, don't be afraid to modify your methods to dial in what you have..... I know that sounds a bit like I am contradicting myself but eventually you will see it dial in and recognize that it takes little changes, not big, to dial in a grow method.  I hope this helps more than confuses:doh:


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## WeedHopper

I love DWC grows. Very simple and very effective.  THG and Andy52 got me hooked on DWC. The only problem i ran into was solution temps because i lived in Florida.  Lol.  But frozen water bottles fixed that problem. Other then that DWC was easy to me. I made all of my own out of 5 gallon buckets and or Trash Cans. My medium was Neoprene inserts.  Very clean.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=958981&postcount=1

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=195270&d=1347798704


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> I love DWC grows. Very simple and very effective.  THG and Andy52 got me hooked on DWC. The only problem i ran into was solution temps because i lived in Florida.  Lol.  But frozen water bottles fixed that problem. Other then that DWC was easy to me. I made all of my own out of 5 gallon buckets and or Trash Cans. My medium was Neoprene inserts.  Very clean.
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=958981&postcount=1
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=195270&d=1347798704



I love that 3rd level, I was staring at that one awhile, figured it was some elaborate heat handling thing, pretty neat. 

Amazing colas for T5s... I use 6500K for veg, do you switch for flower?
No dirt, no hydroton, very clean alright, I can't grow anything without those rapid rooters


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> I wouldn't do too much adjusting and changing. Do a run like you have it and try to get it dialed in. Most of these different methods are good solid methods that just have to take the time to get the particulars correct. If they weren't good methods, you wouldn't see anyone here using them.
> 
> Don't put too much faith in what you see others doing on yutube or even in books. try to remember what they are doing and wait to see if that becomes a trend. There are multiple ways to grow MJ very successfully, it just takes time to find the method that works best in your situation and fits your personal likes. If you make too many changes too fast, you will get all your parameters and knowledge of growing confused, and you will end up chasing your tail.
> 
> My bro did that. He wouldn't settle on one method and try to dial that one method in, and it cost him in yields and problems, and frustrations. Regardless of the methods you use, you have to dial them in before you can truly decide if they are the right methods for you.
> 
> I love my hybridized RDWC in coco coir, in smartpots with top feed, using a special blend of synthetic and organic nutes  but it has taken me 5 years to truly dial it in to get the yields(and flavors) that I get. I have never tried E&F but only because I dialed in my method and am very happy with it. Don't get in a hurry or jump from method to method.
> 
> At the same time, don't be afraid to modify your methods to dial in what you have..... I know that sounds a bit like I am contradicting myself but eventually you will see it dial in and recognize that it takes little changes, not big, to dial in a grow method.  I hope this helps more than confuses:doh:



I'm like your brother... I don't think we get that "dial in" thing.
I'm finding I'll have shitty yield or some problem that prods me to try another method. Looking back, my best yields were HPS and a watering blanket but yields fell as the light weakened and i didn't know to change it.
As simple as that and I charge off fixing problems that didn't exist.

Now that I can sprout seeds in rapid rooters no problemo, I'll likely switch to those things ZEM uses, they drain better and I want to fill up the pots when i flood when the rooters get soggy. But you see my point, master a technique then change hahaha

The people that take to this are the ones that can bob and weave
I am stuck in looking for the quick fix and my routines and it does not make for a good farmer I'm afraid.

Can't seem to clone, HP... just started flower, so I'd best be trying seed again, nothing worse than an empty grow room


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## sopappy

zem said:


> sopappy i did not read it all but i get the picture very well, your cloning tray is very well designed to keep the pots raised from any water puddles. what i am not sure about is those rapid rooters, as i never used them and don't know how much they wick water, i use the same system using oasis foam cubes that can be flooded indefinitely as long as they drain without sitting in a puddle of water. also i make a bigger box and i places the cfl inside to warm things up, with this i can drop the heating mat save power electric outlets and have less equipment. i flood my plants as high as i can just below the surface to prevent algae. i also do not use any bubbler since my water is being flooded and recirculated every 2 hours in the 12 hours light period,  then shuts off for 12 hours when my light shuts off. i find occasional use of h2o2 to clear possible larvae and clean dead roots between grows very useful. Do not over stress or be anal about cleaning and recycling your rocks. i have been trying to get some root disease to grow in that system for years with no success, by cleaning less and letting more root fragments in there, then using h2o2, never gotten any root disease, hell that last run for my veggies i had some growbags that had a lot of root residues that were all over, those veggies are now producing all alike with the bags that are brand new rocks and old root contaminated ones equal, and i only used one h2o2 application in the beginning.
> i am not encouraging you to not clean, i still clean for my mj much more than for my veggies just to be safe, and my veggies are more than 100 plants so cleanin all that would be a hassle if i had been more thorough. i am only giving you a good picture of what to expect after years of practice. you might also find it good to cover the growrocks on the top to prevent too much humidity from below the canopy



Hey Zem,	as usual, procurement is a ***** 

Do you mean these things? (can I cut them into smaller cubes?)
http://tinyurl.com/hy6uf95
and
http://tinyurl.com/hhahrn4

or did you mean these? they look like rapid rooters all over again.
http://tinyurl.com/zm2bt6r

Could I look for those foam cubes at my neighbourhood florist? I only need about 15 - 30 at a time. -thanks


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## WeedHopper

sopappy said:


> I love that 3rd level, I was staring at that one awhile, figured it was some elaborate heat handling thing, pretty neat.
> 
> Amazing colas for T5s... I use 6500K for veg, do you switch for flower?
> No dirt, no hydroton, very clean alright, I can't grow anything without those rapid rooters



3000k for flowering.


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## zem

Sopappy that is the one that i use https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00BXLT574/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 however it is a different brand for much cheaper and yes i just buy a box that has 12 or more cubes for twenty something dollars, then i cut the cube up into little 1x1x1.5", each cube gives me like 40 or so cubes. you can cut them to the size that you want depending on how you water them but mine are on a timer so i make them small. Most importantly, do not buy from these links, they are a complete ripoff jeez


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## umbra

pappy, I only know 1 person doing rdwc. He built his own system, but he is the Master of rdwc. Here are a couple of pix of his work. These are not my pix. He's in the UK. He does 2 plants and 3 vertical lights and vegs for 3 months before flowering. I show this so you know what is possible. 

View attachment vikings.jpg


View attachment water17.jpg


View attachment ak22.jpg


View attachment cm5.jpg


View attachment cm11.jpg


View attachment hog2.jpg


View attachment hog5.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

He must have one serious ventilation system to run those lights vertically. Those are serious beasts.


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## sopappy

zem said:


> Sopappy that is the one that i use https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B00BXLT574/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 however it is a different brand for much cheaper and yes i just buy a box that has 12 or more cubes for twenty something dollars, then i cut the cube up into little 1x1x1.5", each cube gives me like 40 or so cubes. you can cut them to the size that you want depending on how you water them but mine are on a timer so i make them small. Most importantly, do not buy from these links, they are a complete ripoff jeez



well jeez, welcome to Canada, just multiply by 2, if you can even find it here.
But it's just a polystyrene, .015 density I think I read somewheres hahaha
I'm trying a strip of this
https://www.homedepot.ca/en/home/p.air-conditioner-foam-seal.1000118018.html


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## sopappy

umbra said:


> pappy, I only know 1 person doing rdwc. He built his own system, but he is the Master of rdwc. Here are a couple of pix of his work. These are not my pix. He's in the UK. He does 2 plants and 3 vertical lights and vegs for 3 months before flowering. I show this so you know what is possible.



Can you imagine picking away at that cola?
holeeeeee, it's a cactus plant, not marijuana
the vertical lamp is fascinating, sure looks awfully close to the plant


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## umbra

I think 1 plant was 54 oz and the other was 71 oz dried.


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## WeedHopper

Wow. Very nice.


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> 3000k for flowering.



pretty stupid question in retrospect but I learn a lot from dumb questions, 
I was using 100K aquarium bulbs until I mentioned it in a post here.


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## sopappy

umbra said:


> I think 1 plant was 54 oz and the other was 71 oz dried.



Almost a FIVE POUND plant, I'm out of expletives,

The vertical bare bulb makes a yuge difference in head room
but HP's on to something, how do we find out about ventilation?


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## umbra

Heath Robinson is a regular member over at breedbay. You can go do a search for him and read some of his stuff. He goes into detail about his rdwc as well.


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## WeedHopper

Damnt Umbra,,,thats one big *** cola. Very nice. Ill be right over. Yehaaaaaaaaa


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## sopappy

umbra said:


> Heath Robinson is a regular member over at breedbay. You can go do a search for him and read some of his stuff. He goes into detail about his rdwc as well.



great read, thanks, Umbra, 
his take on the air gap and corded roots has me reconsidering my ebb and flo AGAIN, it's re-circulating now, I just have to raise the level and skip the ebbin' part

http://www.breedbay.co.uk/forums/hydro-journals/201350677-heaths-tree-grows-22.html#post670413

6, Yes on the tree grows I use Liquid Silicon to help prevent bud rot, the vertical lighting produces big dense buds which can be prone to mould, Liquid Silicon can help prevent it.

I want to know how this works before I keep them submerged

neat tip re using two exhaust pipes per tank but I don't get why they are not at the bottom of the pots.


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