# Scroggy



## cmd420 (Apr 14, 2012)

Hi All,

I've been away awhile and it's nice to be back.. 

I started a scrog this round of 12/12 because my OG's were getting ridiculous stretch.. I'm actually scrogging Grape Ape first but I have pics of both.

These pics are of the "OG Stretch" as I call 'em.. 3 feet of stretch.. you can see why scrog is in order..

EDIT..4/28:  These are the ones I just put into flower under the screen on the next page.. see how tall they want to grow? with no screen this is a bummer


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## cmd420 (Apr 14, 2012)

These second pics are of the Grape Apes. they are 5 days into 12/12 and they just got the screen thrown over them yesterday. I've grown this strain before and it doesn't stretch much, but still enough to work with..

A question for any scroggers out there.. 
When I pull branches down through the screen to expose bud sites, fan leaves get in the way..

tuck 'em, cut' em.. which is preferable?

Tanks for checking out the grow


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## resin-reaper (Apr 14, 2012)

Woah the top looks good but why did you grow the plant so tall only to abandon half of it?? I counted something like 7 nodes on one main trunk where all the fan leaves and side shoots have been stripped right off. Why didn't you simply grow the plant half as high to begin with? The plant has to work harder and burn more energy just to move the water from the root system to the very top of the plant- which is a detraction from any big plant but usually a tall plant would have foliage all the way down so you are double losing out in this case. Then of course there is grow time. It's always more efficient to run more smaller plants rather than one or very few big ones.

Sorry this has come across so negative, i'm not trying to be mean. The top does look good like it's suppose to.
I think where you can perfect your technique top the plant or start LST (depending on your choice) much so the plant is growing horizontally before it gets very tall at all. The bottom looks very tall and upright like it was pruned for a regular upright plant rather than a plant pushed horizontally along a screen and then poking through it about flowering time.

Finally, you asked about cutting off fan leaves. Leaves are the plants source of carbohydrates which is form from using light, water and co2. Every single leaf you remove is reducing the plants capacity to produce energy. If a leaf is not useful, believe me the plant will let you know. If it's not getting enough light it will turn pale and then simply drop off. They are not a burden on your plant but a necessity.
Someone else here can maybe tell you exactly what they do in their set up but what i would suggest is find a way to keep as many leaves as possible in full light. Some will be lost in the mix along the way but keep that number as minimal as possible.


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## cmd420 (Apr 14, 2012)

I should have been clearer.. *The top plants arent scrogged*..just trained to be the same height 

hence the incorporation of the screen in the bottom pics

The top pics are basically an example of how high the Kush grow..


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## resin-reaper (Apr 14, 2012)

oh ok sorry for the rant then.
Do you know how long the kush vegged for?


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## nouvellechef (Apr 14, 2012)

All pro now. Welcome back  GL


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## NorCalHal (Apr 14, 2012)

resin-reaper said:
			
		

> It's always more efficient to run more smaller plants rather than one or very few big ones.


 
Absolutly false.


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## Roddy (Apr 14, 2012)

:yeahthat:

My kush do tend to stretch, but not like that lol, I do a good amount of training and such, though! They do get big, but big around with tighter nodes!


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## cmd420 (Apr 14, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> :yeahthat:
> 
> My kush do tend to stretch, but not like that lol, I do a good amount of training and such, though! They do get big, but big around with tighter nodes!


 
I know.. the stretch is ridiculous.. I've had some good crops and bad crops with this strain but it seems like an excellent candidate for scrog..

BTW, I took NCH's advice and doubled the size of my veg room and space for each plant. Now there are no stragglers.. only an even, symetrical crop of happy plants.. not stuffed together for 5 weeks.. 

I run 8 waterfarms per crop, so there isn't much margin for error. 

Thanks for checking out my first scrog grow


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## cmd420 (Apr 14, 2012)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> All pro now. Welcome back  GL


 
Thank you sir! Good to be back


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## LEFTHAND (Apr 14, 2012)

*welcome back..
looking nice.. besides the stretch...but ehh better stretch then small scragglers...

i would keep  on truckin on man... looking good... some leaves you will end up pullin off or cutting but other than that i just pull,tuck n  find spots for the fans...
LH*


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 14, 2012)

cmd420 said:
			
		

> These second pics are of the Grape Apes. they are 5 days into 12/12 and they just got the screen thrown over them yesterday. I've grown this strain before and it doesn't stretch much, but still enough to work with..
> 
> A question for any scroggers out there..
> When I pull branches down through the screen to expose bud sites, fan leaves get in the way..
> ...



I would just tuck them back.  You don't really need to worry about exposing bud sites.  They will grow vertically up through the screen as they develop.


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## cmd420 (Apr 14, 2012)

so nice to be back!


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## resin-reaper (Apr 14, 2012)

It is not false that running more plants is more efficient.
It takes atleast twice as long to fill the same area with one plant than it would to use many small ones. So if you veg for twice as long, do you get more out of the same area? No. Same strain filling the same volume (no matter if its from one plant or many- crucial bit is the volume) will produce the same yield.

So how is it the same efficiency to have to veg longer?

I'm not saying don't do it because we all find our own best methods but the quickest turnaround for the same yield is produced with more plants


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## Roddy (Apr 14, 2012)

If twice as long produces 3x the bud sites, I'll veg longer and get more!! And with a bit of work and a few extra weeks, that's achievable! Another thing to remember, some of us have a limit to the number we can grow and tend to do the best we can with the numbers we're allowed! Some aren't allowed any and worry about plant count as possible charges...


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## resin-reaper (Apr 14, 2012)

Sorry i don't believe you do get more budding sites. In a SOG just imagine all the plants have a branch under their pots leading back to one point- there is your imaginary SCROG... now look at a SCROG and imagine each main cola has a pot under it and not a branch and there is your imgainary SOG. They are two different means to the same end.

Like i said thought everyone has their own ideal set up for their situation and tastes. I know some people are limited by plant number. There is one state here where growing 1 plant is decriminalised which means they'll still bust you but it's not a criminal charge or jail or anything. So people in that state scrog single plants up to 2m square i heard.
But even if it's not a law or rules you are trying to follow- to each their own. Find what works good for you and go with it


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## cmd420 (Apr 15, 2012)

resin-reaper said:
			
		

> Sorry i don't believe you do get more budding sites. In a SOG just imagine all the plants have a branch under their pots leading back to one point- there is your imaginary SCROG... now look at a SCROG and imagine each main cola has a pot under it and not a branch and there is your imgainary SOG. They are two different means to the same end.
> 
> Like i said thought everyone has their own ideal set up for their situation and tastes. I know some people are limited by plant number. There is one state here where growing 1 plant is decriminalised which means they'll still bust you but it's not a criminal charge or jail or anything. So people in that state scrog single plants up to 2m square i heard.
> But even if it's not a law or rules you are trying to follow- to each their own. Find what works good for you and go with it


 
yo.. dude.. don't jack my thread please.. this is my grow journal.. If there is information about another topic you would like to share or discuss, a new thread in any one of the many other categories would be appropriate.


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## cmd420 (Apr 15, 2012)

Anyway...

So I tied down the vegging plants to start spreading them out.. I hope it comes through in the pictures.. It looks like they all got sat on..

I threw in a pic or two of the Grape Apes that are almost ready.. good times!


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## OGKushman (Apr 15, 2012)

Oh it's lookin good! :ciao:

:48:


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## cmd420 (Apr 20, 2012)

Here are some updated pics.. 

the screen of Grape Ape is filling out.. it should start to blow up soon as it passes week two and pulls into week three.. 

I do a little bending and tucking every night.. good times

Also some San Fernando Valley Kush clones that I scored just chillin' in their little tent


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## cmd420 (Apr 25, 2012)

I was thinking about starting to trim the undergrowth...

Should I wait for the stretch to stop to trim out?  I don't want to trim stuff now that might grow through the screen later..

They are in week 2 going into 3 so I'll have about 4 more days of stretch..

anybody have anu experience with this?


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## cmd420 (Apr 25, 2012)

and when should I stop tucking the branches? 

When I look at pictures of scrogs, their branches are taller than mine.. 
I just got done tucking and I'm on day 16 of 12/12..

did I tuck too much?.. ("tuck too much"...ACDC)


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 25, 2012)

I pretty much quit tucking when I put it into 12/12.  I think it looks great though I would not tuck anymore.  Most people don't tuck enough.  Looks like you did a great job of filling the screen.


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## cmd420 (Apr 25, 2012)

super.. Thanks!


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## SquidyPacheco (Apr 25, 2012)

You have given out too much Reputation in the last 24 hours, try again later.


CMD :48: looks great bra.. I rememeber the grape ape we had tasted like grape bubble yum. drools looking at your grow..  some nice strains you got lined up there.. happy growing  planti aloha Squidy:ciao:


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## cmd420 (Apr 25, 2012)

Hello All, 

I took some pics this evening..

first 3 pics are the harvested Grape Ape (different grow than the scrog grow).. I was bummed cuz I thought each cola would be about 7gms each.. turns out to be a little under 14 each.. hooray!

The next two pictures are the vegging Blackberry Kush.. these have been tied down and trained to bush out and are only a month old..I'm pretty pleased with these..

 I'm trying to let em go as long as possible becuase I added an Agent Orange clone late and I'm trying to let 'er catch up..They are getting flipped under a screen in four days..

The next two pictures are of the San Fernando Valley Kush (we'll call her SFVK from here on) these are supposed to be high yeilders that will do well with a screen.. 

The last three are of the Grape Ape scrog. We just started stretch a day or two ago and last night was the last night I will tuck branches.. I was concerned that I may have been tucking too long, but there is still plenty of stretch left to go..

I was thinking about trimming the undergrowth of the scrogged Apes, but I'll wait until after the stretch is over.. I don't want to cut something that would have punched through the screen in a few days..

well,

That's all for now..


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## cmd420 (Apr 28, 2012)

Well, I just flipped over my Blackberry Kush to 12/12 and put them under a screen. I am concerned that I should make the screen higher, as this strain does stretch.. 

The screen is about 70% filled at this height, but I could raise the screen (it's not too late) and it would be less filled.. 

The screen is about 4 x 7 and is at an incline, as the plants on one end are shorter..

Looking at the pics again, it looks like there is vegetaion above the screen, but there isn't... all underneath, as the screen just went up an hour ago..

This strain can stretch up to three feet (see pics on the first page of the stretchies) so should I give them more room before hitting the screen?

:?


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## cmd420 (Apr 29, 2012)

well here are some more pics.. any scrog help or comments would be appreciated


Blackberry Kush at 45 days and

San Fernando Valley Kush (aka Chem Valley Kush).. just lil' babies


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## cmd420 (Apr 29, 2012)

well here are some more pics.. any scrog help or comments would be appreciated

these 5 are of the Blackberry Kush that were just flipped to 12/12..

These stretch a lot, so *I'm wondering if I should raise my screen a little* to avoid filling it too much..anyone on that idea?

They look really leafy so I'm thinking of trimming a little underneath before they set into the screen..


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## cmd420 (Apr 29, 2012)

And here are the Grape Apes.. about 20 days into 12/12 and looking good.. I'm concerned about them fattening up, but we aren't even halfway to harvest (day 55) yet..


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## cmd420 (Apr 30, 2012)

Well I pinched the tops of the highest branches today, that's why they look all sad..

I'm going to put a screen over them when I flip them to 12/12, so i'm training 'em to be flat as possible..

when the supercropped tops perk back up, I'll tie 'em down with wire to keep the canopy even.. 

This strain is called Chem Valley Kush and it's from a great nursery.. they are growing like monsters.. when it's time for the flip in two weeks, they'll be HUGE..


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 1, 2012)

I think they are looking great.  I wouldn't worry about them fattening up.  You are only about a third of the way into flowering and IMO, they are looking quite nice for 20 days in.  I think that you have this scrog thing figured out--nice!


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## cmd420 (May 1, 2012)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I think they are looking great.  I wouldn't worry about them fattening up.  You are only about a third of the way into flowering and IMO, they are looking quite nice for 20 days in.  I think that you have this scrog thing figured out--nice!


 
Thank you for checking it out..  I'm hoping to end up with some great yields, thanks to the screen and this help..

Happy Tuesday ya'll


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## Hushpuppy (May 1, 2012)

Hey just looked through the journal here and your girls are really nice indeed  Congrats on the harvest, some nice looking colas hanging up there. I don't know a lot about scrog as I have only done it a little. You probably have more experience than me at this point, but I would raise the screen on the BBKush. As you said, they are real stretchers and you just flipped them. It looks like the screen is mostly filled already so raising it about 4-6" would allow you to spread out the stretchers as they go and refill it with lots of bud sites. JMO


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## cmd420 (May 5, 2012)

Here's the ladies from all the different spaces..

the scrogged Grape Apes.. filling out nicely for 4 weeks of 12/12

the buff SFVK doing presses with a water bottle.. sweet.. A lot of moving air..a lot..(apparently I can't upload those pics, but they are in my other thread in the Coffee Table) 

and the scrogged Blackberry Kush at 5 days 12/12..


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## cmd420 (May 5, 2012)

All the times when I wander to the grow room and wish I could do something.. scrog is perfect!

It's given me a lot more control in how my Blackberry Kush grows... and stretches..

Like Hammy says.. it's like unrolling a plant horizontally.. good times!

My grow feels very interactive... I like it


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## ozzydiodude (May 5, 2012)

looks like we have a new Scrog Master:aok:

:48:


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## cmd420 (May 11, 2012)

here are some pics from the rooms..

first three pics are the Grape Ape scrog at about 35 days.. lookin' good and fattening up nicely..

next two are the "little Apes".. they are only a couple of weeks old..

Moving on.. are the Blackberry Kush scrog.. they are at about a week and a half.. they are already stretching like crazy and I'm loving this screen to keep them in check.. they want to pull thier old tricks again, but HA HA.. screen strikes again..

there is also two shots of a branch pre and post scrog.. hopefully the node below the tip will get above the screen.

Last but not least is the San Fernando Valley Kush... I think these speak for themselves.. Loving these for the screen as well..


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## getnasty (May 11, 2012)

resin-reaper said:
			
		

> Sorry i don't believe you do get more bud sites.


its okay. A lot of people don't believe fact when its thrown right in their faces. Have you ever vegged a plant for 8 weeks? Because I've got 2going plants going in my closet right now. One vegged 8 weeks, the other vegged for nearly 6. The 8 week veg has got MORE than triple the budsites than its 6 week counterpart and is more than likely going to produce three times what the small plant will. If id had 3 of the smaller ones in there, I still highly doubt they would produce as much sensimilla. Sorry but I also disagree with you. It might be more "efficient" as far as water uptake going from root to top growth, being that the water has to travel twice, if not three times as far, but as for that impacting your yield, I believe you are sorely mistaken.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 11, 2012)

looking great cmd, gonna be a heavy harvest


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## cmd420 (May 19, 2012)

here they is..Clockwise from top left
The SFVK at 5 days 12/12 under screen..

the Blackberry Kush at 3 weeks 12/12..screened

the Grape Ape with 3 weeks to go.. lookin' nice... 

the Grape Apes in veg.. about two weeks I think..


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## puasurfs (May 25, 2012)

:ciao: cmd420~

I just finished going thru ur journal and I gotta say :holysheep: !!! Those are some exceptionally nice ladies you got going there! I love all the different strains and I esp am interested in this scrog set up you have... For all my LST, and wire hooks, and daily adjustments of said hooks, well... I'mma read EVERYTHING on this that I can and pick ur brain along the way!

:icon_smile: Thank you for sharing ur epic grow(s)!


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 26, 2012)

Puasurfs, I also had a hard time trying to LST.  I found the screens so much easier.  Cmd has done a great job here with his scrog.


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## cmd420 (May 28, 2012)

puasurfs said:
			
		

> :ciao: cmd420~
> 
> I just finished going thru ur journal and I gotta say :holysheep: !!! Those are some exceptionally nice ladies you got going there! I love all the different strains and I esp am interested in this scrog set up you have... For all my LST, and wire hooks, and daily adjustments of said hooks, well... I'mma read EVERYTHING on this that I can and pick ur brain along the way!
> 
> :icon_smile: Thank you for sharing ur epic grow(s)!


 
it's wonderful.. having more control over how my plants grow and being able to control vertical stretch is really working out..

I just added Purple Cadillac to the stable.. I'll throw up some pics soon


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## cmd420 (May 28, 2012)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Puasurfs, I also had a hard time trying to LST.  I found the screens so much easier.  Cmd has done a great job here with his scrog.


 
Thanks again for your help with it


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## puasurfs (May 31, 2012)

:ciao: cmd420~

Just wondering what you look for in a strain to scrog? I mean, is it better for strains that stretch? ones that are especially robust? ones that have a longer/shorter flower time? Or will any kind do? 

I'm about to purchase some seeds (Support Nirvana and MP @ the same time.), plus the three strains (moms) I already have (like AK and SourD really wanna stretch).

Very interested in ur gj and ur scrog technique. Btwn yourself and THG, I outta be able to get-r-done.  Thanks.


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## cmd420 (May 31, 2012)

from left to right, top to bottom.. (like a book)

1st is the Grape Ape in veg about 4 weeks.. gettin ready for the flip on Monday.. 

Next one is of the SFVOGK at about 2 1/2 weeks.. these are a major PITA.. if you zoom in on the pics, you can see how ridiculously skinny most of the stems are. 

I am majorly lucky I am using a screen with those, because their structure is a freaking joke.. without a screen I would have a tangle of stretchy branches in stead of a little organization.. I stopped tucking them at about 16 days.. they are at 18 days now and I'm assuming that there is a little more stretch to come.. I still have like a foot of space, so I should be okay..

Next two are the Blackberry Kush at about 1 month, with another to go. These are scrogged, but I feel like I stopped tucking them too early. They have a lot of stretch beyond the screen, but the canopy is even, so I feel okay about it overall..

The last one is of the Grape Apes that are about 2 days away from harvest.. This was my first scrog and I think I got a nice even canopy in there with about 40 tops under each of the two 1k's..


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## ozzydiodude (May 31, 2012)

:aok: SuperBaby aint crying now


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## cmd420 (Jun 1, 2012)

puasurfs said:
			
		

> :ciao: cmd420~
> 
> Just wondering what you look for in a strain to scrog? I mean, is it better for strains that stretch? ones that are especially robust? ones that have a longer/shorter flower time? Or will any kind do?
> 
> ...


 
In my limited experience, it doesn't matter.. I am doing short bushy Grape Ape that look great

..as well as some SFVK that is turning out to be reallly leggy and the screen is essential to keep 'em far enough under the lights..

I'm finding that the most important thing is to stop tucking at the right time.. 

If I stop tucking too early and the plants overgrow the screen too far, it makes the screen way less effective..

Too much tucking for too long and the tops wil develop under and in the screen.. not good either..

I think that knowing the ins and outs of a particular strain is probably the most important aspecty in a succesfull scrog.. 

Even though these were my first scrogs, I had grown the Grape Ape and the BlackBerry Kush a few times before trying it with them..


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## Maximlis (Jun 1, 2012)

They have grown properly. Looking awesome.


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## puasurfs (Jun 1, 2012)

:ciao: cmd420~

They look incredible! And as far as "your limited experience" goes, ur a natural at this! I'm subbed~there is much to learn here.


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## Roddy (Jun 1, 2012)

Very nice!


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## LEFTHAND (Jun 2, 2012)

*Awsome GJ CMD...
them ladies look perdy...
i will have to agree with you there.. on the tuckin ... theres a fine line between under and over tuckin.. the time i did it i over tucked then the second time i under and had just as much growth up top as i did underneith.. lol.. not a perdy pic thats for sure...

keep up the good work man.. 
im pulling up a seat...  hope you like ketchup chips cuz i got bags of em lol..
LH*


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## The Silver Bullet Special (Jun 22, 2012)

So let me get this straightened away I'm a small bit confused, you veg (for how long and do you top or fim?) your plants regularly and then when you put them into 12/12 is when you apply the screen and how long do you tuck?

The room I'm planning will have seperate veg and flower sections, so with my veg room being half the size of my flower room I'm kind wondering how I will do my screen without making each area 4'x4' (planned veg room is 4'x2'). If I make my veg room 4'x4' I'll need more lighting maybe but that will let me train under the screen for veg then move into the flower room (yes the screens will move with the plant pots all together).


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 22, 2012)

I had the screen over my vegging plants as soon as they got 12".  I did not top or fim.  As the branches grow, you keep them under the screen and train them to grow horizontally.  Generally, they are put into 12/12 when approx 70-75% of the screen is filled.  At this point, the growing tips (only) are allowed to grow up through the screen.  You may be better off doing lst if you are going to have to move from a vegging space to a flowering space.  When I did mine, I vegged and flowered i8n the same space.


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## gourmet (Jun 23, 2012)

Thanks for the journal.  I have limited head space so my next grow I am going to try this and the journal is helping a lot.


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