# Re-designed Outdoor Grow Shed



## oldwomanslippers (Apr 6, 2008)

I think I have decided what I'm going to be doing in the grow-shed in my back yard.

The shed is 5' tall, 6' wide and 7 feet long.

I am going to have a mother room, a SoG room and a main-grow room.

In the mother room, I will have 4 26w blue spectrum CFLs.  The mother, which I've named Mother Superior, is currently in a 2.5 gallon pot, but will be moved into a 5 gallon bucket when the shed is finished (hopefully April 15th).

In the SoG room, which will be lit by a 150w HPS (and possibly some 2' fluorescent tubes), I am going to use a method I'm calling "Stairway to Heaven".   I will have three 8" "steps" which will hold 10 plants each.  Every three weeks, the plants will be moved up a step.  Meaning after the first 9 weeks, I should be harvesting 10 small plants every 3 weeks.

The main grow room is 6' wide and 5' long.  I'll have a 400w HPS running 6 plants in 3 gallon buckets.  The 6 plants will be the first clones taken from Mother Superior, and put onto 18/6.

See attached image for better explanation.

*EDIT*: If you have any suggestions for my setup, please post them.


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## smokybear (Apr 6, 2008)

Hi there. Sounds like a good plan but you will need more light in your main grow room. A 400 watt hps wont be able to cover 30 square feet adequately. You are shooting for 5000 lumens per square foot. A 400 watt puts out around 50000 lumens. If you put two 600 watt hps systems in that room, that would cover it adequately and grow some very nice plants. Just my thoughts. Everything else sounds great. I like the stairway to heaven idea also. Good stuff. Keep us posted. Take care and be safe.


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 6, 2008)

My roommate and I have decided that we can only use around 700 watts (to avoid a huge raise in the electricity bill).  Remember there are only 6 plants growing here - the entire 5' x 6' space is not being used.  Do you still think a 400w HPS is too little?


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## thc is good for me (Apr 6, 2008)

The step idea is cool you should throw up some pics of your grow.

oldwomanslippers. A 400 watt is enough for 6 plant but more light is always better you could buy a 600 watt.

if you want a cheap 400 watt hps got to insidesun.com


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 6, 2008)

Thanks for the link on the great deal!  I'll probably be posting pics over the next week or so of the good Mother and the grow space so people can maybe get a better idea of whats happening, if they can't figure out what I am trying to say.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 7, 2008)

Vegging???????   I would absolutely have a vegging area if I were you.  Your growing area is far larger than your 400w light will cover, i.e.  I use a 1000w on a mover for a 3 x 6.5' closet.

I also have to say that I believe that your estimated yields from your sog is rather high.  I would LOVE to be able to harvest 5 ozs ever 3 weeks from a 2x2 space lit with a 150hps...   

I think that you will also find that moving these plants "up a stair".  They will intertwine (kind of what a sog is supposed to do) and be hard to separate to move.


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## smokybear (Apr 7, 2008)

A 400 watt will grow 6 small plants decently if they are stuck in a corner. I assumed that you wanted to light the entire area. You should build some temporary walls to cut the size of your area down. You could then put up mylar to cut the loss of light and maximize your lumens that are reflecting back onto your plants. Also, if you do a good job with the plants, you can expect about a half a gram per watt of light that you have for a harvest. You're looking at around 60-90 grams off of a 150 watt hps and that's if conditions are optimal. I wish you the best of luck and would love to see some pics. Keep us posted. Take care and be safe.


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 7, 2008)

OK i have a couple sagestions...

1. Since you want to only use a 400W for your grow room you will only produce around 50,000 lumen's. And its suggested that you stay from 3K-5K lumen's per sq foot, 3K being min-5K best!. That means you should build your grow room in between 16Sq feet- 10Sq Feet... I would make it 3'-3' and place mylar on inside.. Also i would stick with 4 plants at a time with that room...

2. For your SOG room, I really doubt you can fit 30 plants in a 2' X 2' area. I have a 3' x 2' SOG room and i can only fit 12 plants. And i have them under 250W MH "till i see sex" thin 250W HPS. And i would do just one harvest at a time. "just my sagestion"

And i have a question, have you ever grown before? And is your mother room the cloning room also? And i am not sure you can cut that many clones of 1 mother... Good luck bro!


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 7, 2008)

Also have you thought about ventilation and humidity since this is in a shed? I would get air cooled hoods and Inline Vortex style fans.... My 2 cents...


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 7, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Vegging??????? I would absolutely have a vegging area if I were you. Your growing area is far larger than your 400w light will cover, i.e. I use a 1000w on a mover for a 3 x 6.5' closet.


 Remember I am very worried about electricity bills. There is no way I can run a 1000w. I figure I am able to run about 700 watts in the shed. The setup I have now is 654 watts.



			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I also have to say that I believe that your estimated yields from your sog is rather high. I would LOVE to be able to harvest 5 ozs ever 3 weeks from a 2x2 space lit with a 150hps...


 The 5 ozs every 3 weeks is an estimate based on other SoG grows I've read about. People are getting about 0.5 ounces per plant. I am (obviously) not an "advanced grower," but I figure I can at least be close. Honestly, I'd be more than happy with an ounce and half every 3 weeks.

The idea behind this entire grow is that I never have to buy weed again. The bud from the main grow will be sold and the money from it will be invested into a better SoG (buy seeds, better lighting, etc) which I'll probably be running for the rest of my life. And after this grow, I will not be selling anything ever again.



			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I think that you will also find that moving these plants "up a stair". They will intertwine (kind of what a sog is supposed to do) and be hard to separate to move.


 This is true, but from my understanding, you cut 1/3 of the plant off. This should make it much easier to move these plants, right?

smokybear: I am planning on putting these plants in an mylar-enclosed area. And 60-90 grams every 3 weeks would be more than enough to keep me and my room mate high!



			
				Timmyjg6 said:
			
		

> 2. For your SOG room, I really doubt you can fit 30 plants in a 2' X 2' area. I have a 3' x 2' SOG room and i can only fit 12 plants. And i have them under 250W MH "till i see sex" thin 250W HPS. And i would do just one harvest at a time. "just my sagestion"


 The plants in the SoG room will be clones from my mother plant. They will be female. And I can fit 30 plants in a 2' x 2' room. 2 liter soda bottles are ~4". I will have 6 rows of 5 plants, giving each clone a 4" x ~5" area to grow in.



			
				Timmyjg6 said:
			
		

> And i have a question, have you ever grown before? And is your mother room the cloning room also? And i am not sure you can cut that many clones of 1 mother... Good luck bro!


 Yes, I have grown before, however nothing this elaborate. My cloning room will just be a rubbermaid fixture stuck somewhere inside the shed.



			
				Timmyjg6 said:
			
		

> Also have you thought about ventilation and humidity since this is in a shed? I would get air cooled hoods and Inline Vortex style fans.... My 2 cents...


I'll have a DIY cooltube for the 400w HPS, and plenty of ventilation run above the ceiling of the shed.

Thanks for everyones responses, and I'll have pictures up when the setup is finished.


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 7, 2008)

Good luck man! Just like i said do research lots of research first... 
And what is a DIY cooltube?


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 7, 2008)

Also you really think 4" pots will do? Each with no space what so ever for width.... Im just saying you are going to have a problem with that! Here i just drew a picture up in auto cad on what your describing..


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 7, 2008)

Yes, thank you.  That is exactly what I am planning on desigining.  And in a SoG, you are not going for width, you're just focusing on the top cola.  The top cola doesn't need to be more than 4" wide.

Here's a link for the DIY Cooltube.


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 7, 2008)

It would nice to see pics once stated!


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## thc is good for me (Apr 7, 2008)

Timmyjg6 said:
			
		

> Also you really think 4" pots will do? Each with no space what so ever for width.... Im just saying you are going to have a problem with that! Here i just drew a picture up in auto cad on what your describing..


 
How are you going to water them when they get bigger.


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 7, 2008)

Let him try it!


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 7, 2008)

thc is good for me said:
			
		

> How are you going to water them when they get bigger.


I must not understand the question.  The size of the plant shouldn't change how I am watering the plant.


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 7, 2008)

Hay man you need to just do some moor research before you start. Sorry.


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## smokybear (Apr 7, 2008)

It sounds like you are on the right path. I can't wait to see you growing some green. I wish you the best of luck. Take care and keep us posted. Be safe.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 8, 2008)

My 2 cents worth....

I hate to rain on anyone's parade, but I see you having some real issues with both these grows.  Since you want to keep your wattage at such a low level, I think that you really need to rethink your whole setup.

The sog room is way too small and way too underlit.  The main grow room is far too large and grossly underlit.  I believe that you are going to get poor results everywhere.  Few of these outdoor sheds are "light tight", which is something you need.  You have no place to veg your plants and no lights to veg your plants.  You are at 700w without any mention of heating, cooling, ventilation, and odor control needs.  I could go on and on....

One of the things that I have discovered (in general) is that you will get .x number of grams per watt of light, no matter how many plants you have.  So, it doesn't matter if you have 30 plants or 1 plant in that 2 x 2 space, your yield should be approximately the same.  A good return for an experienced grower under good growing conditions is 1/2 g per watt of light per harvest--you will most likely yield far less.

I would recommend that you read a little more and go back to the drawing board.  You have the space to have a mom/clone/seedling room that can be lit with fluoros of some kind.  You can have a veg room lit with a MH or a T5.  You can have a flower room that you build the right size for the light you have.  This needs to be absolutely light tight.  If you go with a T5 in the veg room, you could probably go with a 600HPS to flower.  The 600 is so much better than a 400.  If you are worried about the wattage, try to cut down elsewhere--take shorter showers, turn off everything when you are not using it, ect.  You would be surprised how much electricity we waste every day.  Or buy a digital ballast.  Grow fewer plants and learn how to take care of them.  Four plants are way easier to take care of than 30 or 40.  Also, if you are caught, the penalty for 30-40 plants if probably far stiffer than the penalty for 6 or so.  In an outdoor environment, you are more likely to have pests and plant disease.  These are also easier to control if you have fewer plants.  Since you are in an outside environment and have room, you should consider hydroponics.

The grow room is a living, evolving thing.  No matter how much you read, study and plan, you will make changes as you get a few crops under your belt and learn more.  However, there are certain basics that do not change much--lighting, ventilation, temps, nutes, water ph, ect.  Learn these things first and you have a good foundation. 

The Hemp Goddess


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 8, 2008)

Thanks hemp, iv bin trying but did not want to insult...


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## smokybear (Apr 8, 2008)

Likewise. You will need more light for what you have in mind. You're on the right track though. You just need to make sure to cover all angles before you jump in. Keep us posted. Take care and be safe.


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 8, 2008)

I think this should have been mentioned awhile ago: the main grow is a 1-time only thing.  I have 6 months to grow these plants and will allow as much time as necessary to cure the buds.  After that, I'm done with it and just having a (much nicer) perpetural SoG going which should keep me high for cheap for the rest of my life.

OK, I haven't mentioned ventilation.  Not because I haven't thought about it, but because I have thought about it and basically have the entire thing planned out.  All of the ventilation will be ran through dryer ducts above the shed.  Please look at the attached picture.

I'm putting a DIY Cooltube on the 400w HPS to keep it cool and am building a DIY carbon filter to freshen-up the air before I send it outside.

Above the mother room, there will be a ~1' space where I'll have all of the outtake.

There will obviously be more ventilation in the main-grow room, but I'm too lazy to make a 3D model of it (I'm using MS Paint).




			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> The sog room is way too small and way too underlit.


 According to this chart, a 100w HPS can cover a 2' x 2' area.  I'm using a 150w HPS to cover the same area...



			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> You have the space to have a mom/clone/seedling room that can be lit with fluoros of some kind.


I have a mother room, and when the time comes, will have a clone-box built out of a plastic rubbermaid bin.


More lighting is not an option.  And please don't be shy - I'm not afraid of constructive critisitsm.  It seems like everyone thinks that I'm way ahead of my self, but IMO, I'm not.  If I am, please let me know, but explain to me *why* my ideas won't work (telling me "you need more light" over and over again doesn't help).


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 8, 2008)

In the picture, the red boxes are fans; the black arrows are airflow.


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 8, 2008)

OK let me explain how to figure out if a light will cover a certain area.....
To have proper lighting you need 3,000-5,000 lumen's Per Square Foot, 3,000L being the up most minimum of light you should have and 5,000L being average. So if you have a 2 foot by 2 foot SOG room, thats 2x2=4 square feet. Now you take that 4 and multiply by 3K & 5K and get 12K-20K is suggested. A 150W HPS produces just around 13,000 lumen's. So you just barley meet the min requirements. I would kick it up to 250 if you plan on leaving the SOG room up and want satisfactory results. And also if you are only using 4" pots they are going to get so root bound its crazy, and they will be like a jungle....


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 9, 2008)

"It seems like everyone thinks that I'm way ahead of my self, but IMO, I'm not. If I am, please let me know, but explain to me why my ideas won't work (telling me "you need more light" over and over again doesn't help)."

Everyone here is telling you things we think you need to know. You are expecting certain results that you are not going to get unless you change some things.  Whether you want to hear it or not, the amount of light you have directly affects how much product you can get.  And as Timmy has mentioned, you are at the very low end on lumens/sq ft.  Also, a 150w has very little penetrating ability.

I also agree with Timmy on the 4" pots---you will be completely root bound in no time and will have to water a lot (something that is also going to problematic).  If you have some kind of hydro system made with PVC pipe, you can get away with 4" pots, but not with a soil grow, IMO.  We have already discussed the difficulty of moving the plants up a step every 3 weeks. 

Unfortunately, ventilation is not as simple as it seems like it should be.  You will not be able to connect all the fans to 1 run of 4" dryer ducting.  You need to be able to draw fresh air in from somewhere.  The air that is being pulled through the cool tube actually needs to be cool.  Pulling hot air from around the tube will do little to cool it.  In the summer, you will almost certainly have to cool your space and in the winter heat it.  The noise from 6 fans will be considerable, and you indicate that you plan on more in the main grow room...


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## Timmyjg6 (Apr 9, 2008)

Look i will do you a faver and draw some stuff up in auto cad.... Give me a couple hours.


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## smokybear (Apr 9, 2008)

You should definitely upgrade your lighting. What you have now will not produce the results that you are expecting. I looked at that chart for lighting that you posted and it's wrong for mj. I have a 400 watt hps that I'm using now and I keep it 12 inches away from the tops. On your chart, it says to hang it 48 inches away! That's a terrible chart. Just my thoughts. Take care and be safe.


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## oldwomanslippers (Apr 9, 2008)

Thanks for staying with me through this, I have come to accept that maybe I really need to switch my state of thinking into how I can simply become more efficient, since I cant actually be upping my wattage by much more.  So I have come to the conclusion that switching to LED might be the most suitable line to follow under.  Of course this is gonna require a couple days of research since my knowledge on LEDs and growing is fairly limited.  I would appreciate any good links to information on LED grows or even if an LED / SoG could be implemented, thanks again.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 10, 2008)

I hate to sound snotty, but I am an old arthritic grandma, so listen up.  

If anyone here thought that LEDs were the way to go, SOMEONE would have mentioned it.  You are not paying attention!  Go back and reread everything that has been written.

Here is what I would do if I had your setup:

Forget the 1 time grow and concentrate on you permanent cabinets

Build a 3x3 space to SOG 
Do DWC 
Use a 400w HPS w/a cooltube.
Ventilate, heat, and cool as needed.

Build a 3x3 space for mom, seedling, clone and vegging
Use an aero cloner (except I like moms in dirt)
Use 2' T5 fluoros 
Ventilate, heat, and cool as needed

This keeps you below your 700w max, maximizes what you have to work with, and will work for a perpetual harvest.


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