# Twisted new growth.



## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 3, 2013)

Hi Guys .
One of my 6 UK cheese plants is showing deformed growth ,
This plant has always remained the smallest she is currently 2 foot tall and the other 5 are around 4 feet tall !

They are all in the same soil and they are all feed the same nutrients !
My thoughts are that it is a mutant but there may be another reason for this happening !
Any ideas would be appreciated !
Thanks THC  !


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jan 3, 2013)

I would say Mutant....have ya the time and space she may grow out of it...

take care and be safe


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 3, 2013)

:ciao: 4u 
Thanks for the reply 4u .
Space is no problem .
Time is possibly going to be a problem !
Pre flowering is showing on all of the plants .

My biggest concern is that if i continue to allow her to flower she may turn hermi and cause further problems !
I'm seriously considering the "CHOP"
I dunno if she will grow out of it or turn hermi ?? 

I guess i can wait a few days for more results !
If more people consider her to be a mutant her days are numbered !

Thanks 4u for calling in .
Take care .:48:


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2013)

Looks like your girl is having a bit of a hiccup, she should grow out of it.


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## DrFever (Jan 3, 2013)

Hey  there buddy looking at your leafs    gives me a few idea's of your issues    first off  many times this is caused  from a deficiency,   make sure ph is correct and secondly   most common leaf twisting is either  to humid of a room  and when lights come on   evaporation  / transpiration is to  fast  make sure  if you foilage spray  give ample amount of time for plants to dry out before lights come on ,  good air movement is key 
 Nutrient  issue  not sure what your feeding them but make sure  there is  Zinc in it 
Zinc is main cause of leaf twisting and Deformalities    if you can   foilage spray  zinc and iron  get on it  
your plants need more ZINC


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 4, 2013)

Hello guys .

Thanks for the replys i will keep a watch on this plant and see how she progresses over the next couple of weeks !

It seems that she may grow out of this strange growth pattern .
Time will tell Thanks heaps guys !


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 16, 2013)

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> I would say Mutant....have ya the time and space she may grow out of it...
> 
> take care and be safe


 4u Once again your advice has been proven to be useful ..Ive forgotten how to multi quote so i'll show ya a pic when i reply to pcduck ..Thanks for the Help


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 16, 2013)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Looks like your girl is having a bit of a hiccup, she should grow out of it.


 This is a prime example of why MP is the only place . I got banned from an Australian grow site because some people have no idea about problems when growing our canna plants . Most of the knowledge i have gained over 4 years has been right here at the only place "Marijuana Passion" Thanks guys if i had of listen to some of the ** at that other site all of my plants would be in the compost pile ...You guys Rock man !  

The same plant and if you look closely you can see the twisted growth under the first top sets of leaves ! 

She has grown out of it ! :hubba:


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## skullcandy (Jan 18, 2013)

that if it's a chines twin or is it simes twin or symeus twin well i can't spell it but like a person that has its other sibles stuck to there body, that's what your plants look like to plants in one stem.


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## johnnylongjohns (Jan 19, 2013)

skullcandy said:
			
		

> that if it's a chines twin or is it simes twin or symeus twin well i can't spell it but like a person that has its other sibles stuck to there body, that's what your plants look like to plants in one stem.


  Good stuff Mate!


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## skullcandy (Jan 19, 2013)

JLJ  siamese twines is what i was unable to spell your plant looks like a siamese twin two plants inside of one body of stems


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok thanks for the heads up guys you guys are right all of these plants are sisters / siamese twins ..lol 
YET I HAVE ANOTHER PROBLEM !
So i will post it here and save some server space 
I have tiny black jumping insects about half inch under the soil !
My nutrient supplier has changed the base nutrients that i have used until 2 weeks ago !
I bought the same product but the analysis values have changed ...
I used the weaker solution product and i think a nitrogen deficiency is showing now ! 
Pic No#1 is the original product analysis that has been perfect during this grow !
Pic No#2 is the replacement product analysis which instantly began to show a nitrogen deficiency and was used at 2-3 times the recommended amount during the past 2-3 weeks ! 
The yellowing is still working its way up the plants killing the oldest leaves first and is also killing some of the younger growth near the base of the plants !
More info will follow due to brown burning appearance near the tops of 2 plants and another product replacement !
And guys can we keep in mind these tiny black jumping insects !


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 22, 2013)

Ok sorry guys this grow is a soil grow "organic" and the plants are around 3.5 months old ! 
Temps range from 20 celsuis over night and 35 celsuis on an average day in the greenhouse !
Air circulation should be fine as the greenhouse has no roof on it as yet and i leave the door open .. 
My ph meter has been giving various readings even after being calibrated so i am using pool colour test strips which i used during 2 previous grows and they were successful for those 2 grows !
I have replaced the product above with another local product called powerfeed i fed the plants this product 4 days ago to try and fix the nitrogen deficiency and this product in pics has now created some kind of further deficiency or burning near the top of 2 plants ! 
They have been flowering for about 2 weeks now as well !
So this battle is being lost and i'm losing leaves everyday !
At this point they also look overwatered due to flushing them all yesterday and I'm just going to hang and wait for further directions from you guys ! 
Thanks and peace to all !

The new product and further pics of another problem ...err i think ???
Help needed PLEASE  !


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

Thanks guys for the pm and the advice they have improved already ! You can find me back in the greenhouse in a few days time !
Thankyou !


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## pcduck (Jan 23, 2013)

The 35c is a bit warm but should be survivable.

Sort of looks like a salt issue.

What does the top of your soil look like?

The little black bugs could be gnats or springtails


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## johnnylongjohns (Jan 23, 2013)

Nematodes !


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

pcduck said:
			
		

> The 35c is a bit warm but should be survivable.
> 
> Sort of looks like a salt issue.
> 
> ...


 
Hey pcduck  

Hmm those temps have been a concern yet i do use the shadecloth quite often as 1 specific helicopter has been a regular hound during the past 2 weeks but the gals do seem to handle the heat with adequite water supplied   !

Now the salt issue could certainly be a contribution to the problem and could it be that my kelp meal contains to much salt as it is recommended that it should be used for an additive to horse feed ...but i used it because numerous organic growers in the Northern hemisphere use it and this kelp meal passes through numerous processes to ensure that it is clean which encouraged me to give it a go ! Maybe i should stop adding it to my bubble tea's ???

I'm not sure i follow what you mean about the top of the soil   ?? It usually dries out within a day and shrinks of the side of the pots by around 1/2 inch... but remains moist 3-4 inches deep and i try to water every 3 days and the coco/soil mix seems to be pretty well airated as 3-4 litres of water will give around 20% runoff in 10gal pots !

These bugs that i found in the worst looking plant pot are most likely springtails "thanks google" ..I purchased quite a few springtails when i purchased the red worms and put them into the worm bins with extra coco added to the bins but most of them have dissapeared from the worm bins and the worm bins are 50ft away from my plant pots ! But i would say that they are def springtails ! I have not seen any maggot type larvae or flying gnats around the plants or in the soil !    

I have been blazing away on the bubblegum grow for 2 days :stoned: and have just noticed that a full moon is about 3-4 days away and i believe that this has fooled me into believing that the plants are looking better ! The moon is making them look better and they have still got serious issues i have lost about 30-40 leaves per plant during the last 7-8 days  !

I'm a growing man and i feel like crying my tits off right about soon bro !
I dunno what to do 
Kinda like watching my own sons slipping away and i can't figure out how to save them   !
Its gonna be a looooong winter if they don't make the bong hit :holysheep: 
Thanks pc your help is always appreciated thanks man !


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

johnnylongjohns said:
			
		

> Nematodes !


 Hey jlj thanks for poppin in and sharing some more woeful, painstaking, options to consider  
Thanks again "google" nematodes are the kind of tode that i really don't want to even consider !
These microscopic badboys will become worm food for my worms before i let them wipeout my crop!

I still have a male plant that i cut about 7 days ago 
The rootball and stump are still in the pot with the soil can you offer any insight as to damage or signs i should look for within the rootball ! 
My plan is to thourghly inspect that rootball and soil for any tell tale signs of why my plants are dieing so suddenly ! 
Thanks jlj if you can offer any further assistance   !


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## pcduck (Jan 23, 2013)

I use kelp meal in my teas also.

What I mean by what the top of your soil looks is, does it have a white build up on top of the soil once it dries out?, is it crusty?

Are the tips of your leaves pointing up? like it is praying?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 23, 2013)

According to my Garden saver book, that appears to be a Phospherous deficiency. Given that you are in organic, I would say that either something is locking up the available Phospherous, or there isn't enough in the soil, or you don't have a strong enough microbe herd. 

If they are outside and have been rained upon, that could have caused the PH in the soil to drop to a level that is locking out the P. That would be the first thing I would check, *unless I knew that PH isn't off*.

It's possible that you have too much nutrients in the mix and that is locking up the P, but I'm not sure how you would determine if that is the case.

The only other thing would be that you just don't have enough P available to keep up with the flowering needs of the plants. One possible solution for that is adding bone meal to your tea or adding in an already chelated source of P like Budswell or Alaska Morebloom to your tea.
I hope this helps you


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

Hi guys   !

I will reply to you guys separately in quotes as well  

So as i stated i will check the male plant rootball for any signs of damage or reasoning for these symptoms taking place  !

Pic 1 : Top of the soil pics with the stem to show if any signs of a salt build up  !

Pics 2-3-4 : The rootball after being removed from a 8-9gal pot about 9 days ago and it doe's show signs of possibly becoming rootbound but i think we have all seen some badly rootbound plants and could rate this at around the 7 out of 10 region. 
Also a pic of a drainhole showing no signs of roots  ..but hey i'm here asking you guys for assistance and don't really know anyway  !

Pics 5-6-7 The rootball and pot after cleaning up !
And a picture of the largest plant in a 10 gal pot which is showing signs on the lower growth of an "N" deficiency yet the 2nd largest plant behind her is in the same size pot and she is showing similar burn marks on her top leaves or phos problem ...or maybe even rootbound btu the drain holes are clear of roots !... ??? 

I don't really know guys so heres a few pics . :holysheep:


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

So those pics show the rootball on top of 2 pots which were both damaged and formed to make 1 good pot ! "grower on a budget" 
That male was cut about 9 days ago so rootbound still has me thinking maybe ??...."maybe"  
Also pcduck the white stuff is dol lime on the soil in pics which i added yesterday due to taking drastic measures during stoned moments ! 

The other 2 plants which are severely damaged are in 1 of those pots "7-8gal" yet don't have roots showing at the drainholes either ! 
There are no signs of any bugs in the soil yet they are still a bit overwatered from the flush and The leaves are dropping fast from these 2 plants !
We also have had some rain over the past 3 days which is'nt helping either ..Grrrr !

Anyway here's a few pics of those 2 as well !


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## johnnylongjohns (Jan 23, 2013)

Nematodes are beneficial live insects that you buy. You apply them via a watering to the soil. They will eat all the bad things in your soil. Maybe even your worms !


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

LOL Thanks JLJ  
 I "googled" the bad nematodes but i'm with you now !
Beneficial bacteria, mycorrizae and thier cousins..Reminds me of Umbra  !
I have only been relying on the microbes supplied from the worm bins and compost teas .
The teas have not been bubbling as good as it could !
There has not been a lot of microbe population breeding in the teas during the past 2-3 weeks and the only difference is the new weaker version of the fish emulsion i am using ...Yet when i used the green powerfeed bottle 6-8 days ago the phos deficiency as Hushpuppy mentioned started to show on the 2 smaller plants in the smaller pots  ! :holysheep: 

These signs are also showing on plants 3 and 4 which are in 10 gal pots yet the largest plant of all has a "N" problem i think "yellowing on lower older growth and some new growth " But no signs of the phos lockout or lack of phos ! 

I'm starting to wonder if i should repot the smaller plants and concentrate on a better breeding system for the microbe herd in the tea ! 

I don't really know ..so many options and all could be fatal ..:holysheep:


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

pcduck said:
			
		

> I use kelp meal in my teas also.
> 
> What I mean by what the top of your soil looks is, does it have a white build up on top of the soil once it dries out?, is it crusty?
> 
> Are the tips of your leaves pointing up? like it is praying?


 
 pcduck .
Most of my organic ideas have originated from your good self and umbra !
The problems that i face are soil ammendments and being able to source the products Downunder !
I really wish we had legal grow possibilities down here then i could use happy frog and light warrior, OF , and even get bonemeal or bloodmeal without any political drama ! 
Its all illegal and its even harder to get reliable info from Australian growers which i guess is fair enough because no one wants competition over a cash crop ! "I don't mean to offend anyone by saying this " But some growers do have this outlook ! I'm just trying to get a good soil mix and good grow so i can pollute Australia with gauranteed soil and free seeds to over run the country and keep the passion to maximum levels and give the government more reasons to legalize !
Anyway sorry pc back on topic ! :hubba: 

The tips of the leaves seem to be level towards the top of the plants but somewhat droopy down lower from flushing but i guess you mean the claw but a reversed version of it ! And no they don't show bent up tips on the leaves thankfully ! 

Thanks pcduck i still cant offer you any rep because i need to share some around ..sorry man !


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

Hmm MarP , THG , NC , 
You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to johnnylongjohns again.

I have only thanked JLJ once in this thread ...Is this normal ?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 23, 2013)

I am only a beginner grower in organics so my knowledge is limited, but I think I see one problem for you. The soil in your pots looks very compacted and tight. If that is the case then on the next grow run and if you repot the smaller ones, you need to add something like pearlite or coco chunks to add some aeration to the soil and prevent it from compacting. 

This is just a suggestion for you(and you may already know this) but I would think that there are farms and farm supply stores somewhere in your country. If they are anything like here in the states, then they will have different soil ammendments in bulk form for gardeners and farmers alike, and if there is a place like that then there's a good chance that they will carry some products that have or enhance the natural beneficial microbes that flourish in your part of the world. Just tell them that you are trying to set up your own organic vegetable garden and you are trying to brew up your own compost for it.


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 23, 2013)

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> According to my Garden saver book, that appears to be a Phospherous deficiency. Given that you are in organic, I would say that either something is locking up the available Phospherous, or there isn't enough in the soil, or you don't have a strong enough microbe herd.
> 
> If they are outside and have been rained upon, that could have caused the PH in the soil to drop to a level that is locking out the P. That would be the first thing I would check, *unless I knew that PH isn't off*.
> 
> ...


  Hp I enjoy this site because there is always useful information around every corner  !
And after looking up how much phos i am getting at the rootzone It doe's appear that you may well be onto something for sure  !

The microbe herd has also been failing to reach decent quantities as well and its unfortunate to mention that my Hanna Ph meter "USA import" Has let me down due to severe variances yet my son may have thought it was a ball when my back was turned   ! 
So a lockout is very possible as well :hubba: !
I need to get them covered up so they dry out  
Get some High Phos liquid humate . 
And get the ball back in the park :holysheep: 

Thanks Heaps Hp Your advice is extremly plausible and I shall Jump on it !


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