# Beginner Hydro grower, help needed



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 10, 2009)

Hey everyone, I just started my second attempt at a hydro grow after growing soil for a few years. Haven't been in here for a while and would really appreciate some help here. I want to start with what we did first time around and see if you guys can pin point our failures. 

First try:  

waterfarm 8 pack, 1000 watt MH, HPS conversion light. roughly an 8 foot by 5 foot grow room completely sealed with walls covered with white panda paper. 

started from seed and after germination put them into little inch cubes in a tray under CFL lighting to get them started. They all sprouted but got little growth after about a week or 2 under CFL lighting. we watered enough to keep the cubes moist but were sure to drain run off water. we then decided to transplant into our waterfarm and move to the 1000 watt hps. after several weeks of no noticeable growth and having to hand water do to the cubes not getting watered by the waterfarms ring, they were pretty much fried. (Note: we keep the light about 3 feet off the plants)

This try:

still want to use the waterfarm and 1000 watt light, we germed the seeds and plan to plant them into the little cubes again under CFL lighting and once a decent amount of growth starts we will plop the cubes into 4 inch rock wool cubes and continue CFL lighting. we then plan to put the cube into the waterfarm but we bought wick paper stripping to set the cupe on to catch the water dripping and bring it to the roots and cube. we plan on gradually introducing the 1000 watt light by rasing it as high as we can (approximately 5 feet off the plants) and increasing the exposure the plants have to the light. hopefully we will have healthy enough plants to fully expose them shortly. 

My questions:

what happened the first time? did we just burn them up to early with the 1000 watt light? 

did we somehow over water them?

does the second strategy sound good so far? If not, what should we do differently?

I will get pictures up for every stage as we go, and will try to post pictures of the grow room and cubes and things tonight or tomorrow. I REALLY appreciate everyones time and thoughts. happy growing!


----------



## Growdude (Feb 10, 2009)

My advice is just start them in the 1" cubes and once there is some decent roots coming out of the cube just plant that in the hydroton in the waterfarm.

Off set it enough that the drip ring will drip near the rockwool cube.

Let your drip ring run 24 hours a day or when the lights are on. It takes a few days for the roots to find the water and offseting it a bit helps, try to avoid it spitting on the plant when its small (heap up hydroton over the drip ring).

Should work, pls post pics Ill be glad to get your waterfarm working.


----------



## CasualGrower (Feb 10, 2009)

you put in the waterfarm before you saw green I am thinking by what I read????   You reallyt do not want to introduce your lil ones to light till they have some sort of green to be able to use it.  ...

I will tell you how I do it, I do not use waterfarms, but it all works pretty much the same.  I germ the seeds, they crack and when i get 1/3 to 1/2 inch tap root I place them in the 1 IN cube.  you can still leave them in the dark if you want, but once int he rockwool, i place them under a CFL on a dinnerplate, I keep them moist and maybe leave a lil pool in the plate IF I am gonna be gone for a day or 2.....  once i get the cotyledons out I start in with the CFLs at closer range and then i put the small cubes into a 4 in cube... takes a couple days from there to get the first real leaves.... Once I get there I put them in the hydroton and place them in there new home....... MAke sure you keep them irrigated till they get a couple more leaves..... after that, you can start dropping your water levels and moving your drip ring farther from then to get them to chase the water with roots.....  Second set of real leaves, I start with MILD nutes.....  just a splash and then you work up from there... the more they like it, the more ya give them...


Hope this helps.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 10, 2009)

thanks for the help guys, we're having camera difficulties so once we get that fixed i should be able to post some pics of everything. thanks again!


----------



## GeezerBudd (Feb 10, 2009)

I've got two waterfarms.
Right now I've got two sprouts with coly's coming on.Got them under couple cfl's for now.
The drip ring on the waterfarm can be a PITA.
And I am thinking of getting some tubing and fittings and redoing it-I post if I do.
I piled up the hydroton and it seemed to help.
I also set the pump on a timer so it runs 2 hours then off four.(dry cycle)
The cubes hold alot of water.
I used rockwool plugs, then put them in 3" blocks-one with the hole.
Hope this helps.

Gb


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 11, 2009)

He'res some pictures of our main grow room with the 1000 watt light. the rough dimensions are 8 ft. X 4 ft. and is about 6 feet tall. this is where we'll put the waterfarm in when its ready.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 11, 2009)

here is our plants planted 8 hours ago under our new cfl its a new wave T5 with 4 bulbs that produce 6,500 lumens each. this is also our temporary grow room where we'll keep the plants until they're ready for the 1000 watt light.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 11, 2009)

No where did I see any mention whatsoever of PPMs and pH--something extremely important in hydro.  Did you soak the rockwool in pH's water prior to planting your seedlings?

IMO, something happened right off the git-go for them to not show growth after they sprouted.

And JFYI, CFLs (compact fluorescent lights) are those spiral type light bulbs that screw right into a regular light socket.  The T5 is a fluoro tube set-up.  I veg exclusively with a 4' T5 fixture.  I think your plants will like it.  Once they sprout, you can keep the light really close to the seedlings.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 11, 2009)

thanks, was really high last night when i posted and wasn 't thinkin when i wrote cfl. we have the 1" cubes currently soaked in distilled water and we tested the ph to make sure it was good. i've used distilled water with all my grows so far. we made sure the cubes were completely saturated but didn't leave any standing water at the bottom of the tray. 

just for fun..... our new bubbler.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 11, 2009)

SmknWhiteWidow said:
			
		

> thanks, was really high last night when i posted and wasn 't thinkin when i wrote cfl. we have the 1" cubes currently soaked in distilled water and we tested the ph to make sure it was good. i've used distilled water with all my grows so far. we made sure the cubes were completely saturated but didn't leave any standing water at the bottom of the tray.
> 
> just for fun..... our new bubbler.



Love your bubbler!

So, what pH are you running?  Also, cubes should be soaked in water pH'd to about 5.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 11, 2009)

just re-tested the pH and it is between 5 and 6. about 75% of our seedlings have popped through the soil but a few still have the shell casing on it, i'll give them a few more days to see how they look before touching the shell. .... by the way what is the hydroton? not familiar with the terminology. thanks


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 11, 2009)

Hydrotron is expanded clay pellets that are used in hydro.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 11, 2009)

same thing as aqua rocks?


----------



## NewbieG (Feb 11, 2009)

I would suggest using your MH because you can put them in a dome and keep the cubes moist that way. I've had 100% success using the rockwool and dome method for seeds under a 400 watt because it evaporates the water and keeps everything very moist. I will be doing the same thing for clones.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 12, 2009)

thanks. we will use our MH as soon as we can get the plants developed enough where they won't burn up. bought the flouro to help get em' started then we will continue to veg. with the 1000 watt


----------



## Growdude (Feb 12, 2009)

SmknWhiteWidow said:
			
		

> about 75% of our seedlings have popped through the *soil*



I thought you were going hydro and were using rockwool?


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 12, 2009)

i am, but the little 1 inch cubes that i will put in the 4 inch rock wool cubes are made of some kind of soil. all i meant was that they popped through the little cubes.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 12, 2009)

here's the plants as of this morning. i also included a picture of the soil cubes along with a nutrient the hydro shop gave us.  the last picture is of the rock wool cubes they will be transferred into later.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 15, 2009)

putting the soil plugs into the rockwool tonight. we are going to soak the rockwool in a solution of distilled water and the liquid seaweed stuff for a few hours before we put the plugs in. we will continue to use the T5 for a while longer though to get more growth so the plants down burn up under the 1000 watter. any ideas/suggestions so far? thanks for stopping in


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 15, 2009)

I wouldn't put into the rockwool until you see roots coming through the starter cubes (which are not soil).  I wouldn't use any additives when soaking the Rockwool.  What exactly is the liquid seaweed stuff?  Little babies do not need any added nutrients for at least several weeks.  Plain distilled water probably still has too high a pH to use to soak the cubes--the water should be pH's to about 5.  You are going to have to dial you pH in a little better--a span from 5-6 is a HUGE difference.  You are probably going to want to keep your pH between about 5.3 and 5.8 for hydro.  I never use a dome after the seedlings have sprouted.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 15, 2009)

thanks, the liquid seaweed stuff was something that the lady at the hydro store strongly suggested and said we could use at any point because it wasn't a nute exactly and was more of a light growth hormone. we will use some pH down to get the distilled water exactly where we need. all the seedlings have roots coming through the bottom of the cubes. we took the dome off after all the seedlings sprouted so we don't have to worry about that, we also were able to get the plants  a lot closer to the light without it.  i really appreciate your input hemp godess


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 15, 2009)

I would be leery of any additives--I have to tell you that many people who work in hydro stores do not know $hit from shinola and have never actually grown anything hydro, much less mj.

I think it sounds like the starter cubes are ready to go into the rockwool.  Look at the label on the seaweed stuff and see if there are any nutes in it.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 15, 2009)

will do, ill just not use the seaweed stuff and not risk it. doesn't sound like it will help THAT much anyways. i'll get some pictures up tonight when we get the cubes into the rockwool


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 16, 2009)

threw up some pictures of the babies in their new rock wool homes. we put 4 White Berry into rockwool as well as 4 Arjan's Haze. the others will either get theirs soon or be put into soil. i'm excited to see how they do in the next few days.


----------



## Growdude (Feb 16, 2009)

Well you asked for advice, I would not have put them in that big rockwool cube and let he plants root well in a 1 " cube, the reason is that now you will have to grow them out bigger before you plant them in the waterfarm, your going to want alot of roots coming out of the cube before you plant them in the waterfarm.

The water farm is meant to have hydroton as its medium.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 16, 2009)

right on, i hear ya. We'll just keep them in the rock wool until a good amount of roots come out of the bottom. We just noticed a bunch of roots already poking through the little plugs and thought we were sapposed to put them into rockwool next. We don't really have a time constraint so leaving them in the rockwool a little longer isn't a big problem. thanks for stopping in grow dude. i appreciate it.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 16, 2009)

one more thing..how often should we be watering these little guys..ive heard to let them dry out a decent amount before adding more water..i just dont want to let them dry out to much, but i also dont want to be over watering them. I also wanted some input on how far away to keep the plants from the t5 light..it looks like they are strecthing just a little so i moved them a little closer ( about 3-4 inches away from the bulbs). Is that too close or will that be ok..Thanks again everyone


----------



## Growdude (Feb 16, 2009)

2-4 inches is good the closer the better if they take it.

And putting the 4 " cube in the hydroton shouldnt be a problem.

You sound like you know how much to water by what you sayed
Its always a matter of not too much.

Just watch your plants they will droop when over or underwatered
Just note if the cube is soaked or dry.
Plants perk up fast when underwatered.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 23, 2009)

Well it looks like it's happening again. After a few weeks under the T5 light, the plants growth have slowed down completely and are even yellowing. I have no idea what we could be doing wrong. We water after the cubes have dried out with distilled water and keep at a safe distance from the light so that they will not burn up. We have roots coming through all the cubes but the plant growth has stopped. Does anyone have any idea what we could do to save these plants?? Any input would be greatly appreciated. thanks!


----------



## blownupnostril (Feb 23, 2009)

whats nutes are you using? any? let us know


----------



## Growdude (Feb 23, 2009)

Have you given them anything?
Have you tested the PH of the run off/out water?

Look a bit yellow, if you havent been adding any nutes and your PH is good try adding some very light nutes, say 150 -200 ppm. and give it some time to see if some new growth appears and looks to have some color.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 23, 2009)

Haven't tested the run-off Ph but the only thing we've given them is the liquid seaweed stuff that the lady at the hydro store said was safe to give them at any step because it didn't have nutes and was just a growth hormone. We only used that once for watering and havent used it after that. do u recommend using our hydro nutes right now or what?? thanks again...


----------



## Growdude (Feb 24, 2009)

Whats the name of this seaweed extract?
is it Nitrozime?


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 24, 2009)

Its called Liquid Seaweed by maxicrop...it says the total nitrogen is 0.1% and that it is derived from Ascophyllum whatever that means..I stopped using it so I hope that was part of the problem.. I also bought some stuff to flush the plants so ill see how they look later tonight 
(ill post pics later too) I bought a TDS meter from the local hydro store but for some reason I cant get it to work, so tonight I am going to nute with the GH nutues according to the GH feeding schedule..BTW the TDS meter I got is called Milwaukee T75 paid $80 for it which is a little steep..might be taking it back and just might buy one online they are much cheaper..i just dont want to wait for it to ship here because i want to start adding nutes ASAP..thanks for the help everyone....any input is appreciated


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Feb 25, 2009)

So we gave them a flushing solution and flushed out the plants, after 24 hours the leaves have begun to develop new growth which is green.   maybe they can be saved after all. We bought a ppm meter but it doesn't turn on so we have to exchange it for a new one. when we get that we will add some nutes slowly to see how the plants react. Growdude or anyone, do you think the plants are ready to be transplanted into the waterfarm yet?? I took some pictures of the flushing solution as well as the plants and a pic of one of the soil plants for comparison. happy growing.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Mar 4, 2009)

We put the plants into the waterfarm a few nights ago and have seen pretty good results. we have the ppm set at around 350 and they seem to take it well. Most of the plants look very healthy, a few though look like they need some help. We have had the plants going with the water level at right about the roots for about a week. How soon should our first water change be?? also, when do you think we should add a higher dose of nutes? i put up some pics from the water farm plants along with some of the soil plants. Notice how one of the water farm plants is drooping a bit and another looks a bit thin and less developed. any ideas what could cause this?? thanks for stoppin in.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Mar 4, 2009)

here are the rest of the pictures. a few from the soil as well. also, we have the plants under the 1000 watt MH light now with the light being around 2 and a half feet off the plants.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 4, 2009)

I still think that you have a pH problem.  It is absolutely critical that you keep you pH within certain parameters.  So, what is your pH?  Hydro and soil need a different pH.

Start your nutes out really low and slowly raise them if the plant is doing okay.  Do not go by the concentrations on the GH bottles.  It is too hot for many strains.


----------



## Growdude (Mar 4, 2009)

How often are you running the timer?

And  you say the water level is at the roots, your water level should never be higher than the inner bucket, I keep it about 6-8 " in each bucket by adjusting the controller buckets float.

Wait for them to grow out some before uping the nutes. How long have they been in the waterfarm?

Glad they look to be bouncing back.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Mar 4, 2009)

Thanks for the reply. our roots aren't through the buckets yet, how high should we keep the water then? 6-8" off the bottom seems low, should we keep it a bit higher until the roots come through the buckets? When we test the pH should we do so while its running through the buckets or should we only be testing the pH of the distilled water before we add it? By the way, you were telling us about reverse osmosis water, does that work well? and where do you go to get that? thanks again...


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Mar 10, 2009)

So its been a week since the last update and the plants are definitely looking better. They have been in the waterfarm for exactly 2 weeks now. We still feel that the growth is slow but we hope for it to pick up once they get more roots. The roots stile haven't came through the buckets..is that ok??? were figuring its just a matter of time. The pump is still runnning 24/7 and nutes are around 250-300 ppm. We still havent been able to test the PH other than the cheap pool method. Last I checked it was 5.5 (our meter is on its way ..Do you think its ok to up the nutes a little or should we keep them where they are at..We also coverd the drip rings because they were spitting all over the undergrowth of the plants and causing the leafs to die. I think that was one of the major reasons for the slow growth. I hope these plants start to take off

As you can see the soil plants are doing great. Also was wondering if its ok to lower the light a little. Any input is appreciated


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Mar 10, 2009)

I also wanted to add the the new growth is 100% green which is good to see. I think we started too strong with the nutes and it burned them a little bit. Thanks for stopping in


----------



## BuddyLuv (Mar 11, 2009)

Yeah it looks like your pH is still off a little. Once you get that correct (5.6-5.9) you should see a huge improvement.


----------



## Growdude (Mar 11, 2009)

Plants are looking better and I bet will take off soon.

Dont worry about roots coming out the bottom, that wont happen for quite a while. This is a drip system not DWC so you dont need the water level all the way up 6-8" is fine.

Your slow growth at this stage is why I suggested just using a 1" rockwool cube and to offset the plants slightly under the drip ring.
With a smaller rockwool cube more roots would be emerging and offsetting it allows the roots to find the water faster and take into the hydroton. Once it takes its going to take off and out grow your soil plants im sure.

Check the PH of the water/nutes in the bottom bucket, adjust your feed solution accordigly 5.5 -5.8 is best. Once you get a feel for what is needed to obtain the proper PH you can just test and adjust the main controller rez.


----------



## KeepsTen (Mar 11, 2009)

Hey, looking good SWW.  Looks like youre a week or so ahead of me, and also doing hydro.  Ill definetly be checking in.  May we harvest many many ozs of bud.


----------



## KeepsTen (Mar 12, 2009)

Oh yeah, and about the lights.  I think the rule of thumb is, put your hand over the tallest plant, and drop the light.  If your hand burns, so will your plants.  So, feel free to lower them as much as your cooling allows.

Ive got a 600w mh bulb less than a foot away from mine with proper cooling, and they are still seedlings.  Since ive dropped it, theyve really enjoyed it, and stopped any vertical growth at all.


----------



## GeezerBudd (Mar 12, 2009)

SWW,
I'm watching this thread. I think once you get the meter going it will really help.
One mistake I made-not having one and trying to use color charts-buncha crap.
I threw my last survivor into some soil for now, but I will start up the waterfarms again.

Keep it green.

Gb


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Apr 8, 2009)

Havent been around in a while..I added a 400 watt MH so now I am at 1400 watts..will be flowering at the end of this week. They hydro have really taken off and the soil are looking awesome. I am going to clean out the whole system this weekend and make the tubes longer so the buckets are more spaced out and have more room to grow. Here are some pictures from a few days ago before I added the 400 MH. Enjoy


----------



## hydrochloride (Apr 8, 2009)

Another important factor is temp and air. Your room should exchange it full volume within 5 minutes. I imagine that the temp with 1000 watts would be really high. If you are having trouble blocking light out wit your air openings, you can go to the craft store and buy foam board to make a baffel box to block out the light. Adding dark airconditioner filters also helps at each opening. Good luck!


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Apr 8, 2009)

I usually keep the door to the grow room cracked open to keep temps down..Im assuming it would be better for the plants if I kept the door shut and got the temps to stay down but its still pretty cold outside where I live and we still run the heat. Once it warms up Ill have the A/C on in the house and this makes the basement 10x cooler so hopefully Ill be ok (might need to get a portable a/c, but ill deal with that later)..I plan on flowering with the 1000 HPS with the agromax bulb putting out 150,000 lumens. I also am going to be adding another fan. I picked up an Ecoplus wall-mount oscilating fan so I hope that will help with temps too..Any suggestions or comments would be appreciated. Thanks again everyone


----------



## GeezerBudd (Apr 8, 2009)

Lookin' good!  :watchplant: :


Gb


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Apr 14, 2009)

Well I cleaned out the system last night and bought new tubing so the plants are more spread out. Currently running the waterfarm at 950 ppm and 5.7 pH. The plants are now under 1,400 watts of HPS and the flowering cycle began this morning and i'll be running the light cycle at night. I cut down to 6 buckets for the waterfarm and 4 soil plants in the main grow room. I have a single waterfarm bucket running one of the smaller plants under our T5 light which we will veg until we have some more growth and will use it as a mother plant to take clones from for either future indoor grows or for our outdoor grow. There's more i wanted to say but can't think right now.... i'll post pics of everything when the lights turn back on tonight. thanks for everyone's help so far.


----------



## BuddyLuv (Apr 14, 2009)

good to see you got it figured out now. Once you get the hang of hydro you will never mess with dirt again.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Apr 20, 2009)

So its now 1 week into flowering and being that its 420, thought id give an update with some pictures. anyways, got 3 white berries and 3 arjans haze in the waterfarm. Then we have 1 white berry and 1 arjans haze 1 pure gold and 1 pure power in the soil. lookin good so far, hopefully we start to see some buds developing soon. thanks for stoppin in. enjoy.


----------



## BuddyLuv (Apr 20, 2009)

from the look of those bushes you can say you are no longer new to hydro.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (Apr 23, 2009)

Thanks. Ya once we got the pH adjusted correctly and the roots came through the buckets they just took off. The soil had almost a 3 week head start and now the hydro has completely caught up. Nice to finally have it under control. Thanks to everyone who helped get our feet wet. Ill update with pictures in a few days


----------



## hydrochloride (Apr 23, 2009)

I have a suggestion for keeping your heat down. You can take a piece of furniture of some type and place it up against the wall of your grow room onthe outside. Make a hole from you grow room to your "secret" baffle ,Then gut the piece of furniture and turn it into a baffle that will let air in and keep light out. I have an old chest on the outside of mine that lets plenty of air in and you would never guess what it wa by looking at it. I have an inline fan on the inside wall to help pull air through the baffle also. If you can make some way to peek into the baffle from the outside, it makes for a good wat to check to see if your lights are on or not.


----------



## SmknWhiteWidow (May 14, 2009)

thought i'd update with a few pics. about half way through flower on the white berry and the arjans will be 5 or 6 weeks after that. both in week 5 of flowering


----------



## stonedrone (May 14, 2009)

Those are some good lookin' ladies you got there SSW. Nice work.


----------

