# Buzz Kill: Federal Warnings Hit Medical Pot Boom



## Erbal (May 28, 2011)

From California to Arizona, Colorado to Maine, states across the  country are legalizing the sale of medical marijuana. Recent warnings  from U.S. attorneys, however, are making local governments rethink their  plans.
                     Seth Bock stands in what's supposed  to be one of Rhode Island's first medical marijuana stores. His group  was going to install grow lights and a ventilation system this week, but  not anymore.
                     "We can't really invest any money into the carpentry and the building process until we know that this will go on," he says.
                     But  that could take a while. Rhode Island Gov. Lincoln Chafee has put the  program on hold indefinitely.  The reason: a letter he received from the  U.S. Attorneys' Office that said Rhode   Island's so-called compassion  centers could face federal raids, fines or criminal prosecution if they  open.
                     "The U.S. attorney was very direct,"  governor's spokesman Michael Trainor says. "The governor believes that  if we proceed on the present course, he'd be putting the compassion  centers and people associated with compassion centers at great risk."
                     Rhode  Island's letter is similar to those sent to at least eight other states  with medical marijuana programs.  Advocates believe the threats are a  dramatic change from the Obama administration's original stance on  medical marijuana. The Justice Department has refused to clarify its  decision, saying only that its policy remains the same. It says the U.S.  attorneys assigned to each state have "discretion" about how to enforce  that policy.
*The Ogden Memo*
                     What the policy is, exactly, depends on how you interpret what's called "the Ogden memo."
                     "In  2009, the Department of Justice indicated that it would be a low  priority to prosecute anyone who was complying with state medical  marijuana laws," Jay Rorty of the American Civil Liberties Union  explains.  He says the 2009 memo from then-Deputy Attorney General David  Ogden made advocates think the federal government wouldn't interfere  with state medical marijuana stores.

Marijuana buds for sale at the Sunset Junction medical marijuana dispensary in Los Angeles, Calif.                                                                                                                                                      
                      U.S. Attorney Michael Ormsby from Washington  state disagrees with that interpretation. "I think the ACLU takes that  statement out of context," he says. According to him, the memo means the  federal government won't go after patients who are growing their own  marijuana  but retail stores were never part of that exception.
                     "We're talking, in some instances, about thousands of dollars a week being generated by these enterprises," he says.
                     It's  a problem familiar to Colorado's Attorney General John Suthers. He says  Colorado's more than 800 dispensaries are probably not what the federal  government had in mind when it issued the Ogden memo.
                     "We've  had just a plethora of retail dispensaries develop. We've got grow  operations; we're now at 125,000 patients," he says. "And it's a joke."
                     That's  why he asked his U.S. attorney for advice. Suthers guesses that the  letters from other U.S. attorneys are an attempt to prevent more states  from becoming like Colorado.
*Meanwhile, States Have Patients*
                     How  each state interprets those letters is different. Some are going ahead  with their programs despite the warnings. Others are in the same limbo  as Rhode Island, where patients are getting frustrated.
                     "I  don't know about you, but I feel mad.  Do you?" Ellen Lenox Smith is a  familiar face at the podium in the Rhode Island State House.  She  testifies in favor of dispensaries at every opportunity, with her  wheelchair and service dog nearby. She says marijuana helps lessen the  pain of her two incurable diseases. She grows her own plants, for now.
                     "I  have to wonder, as I progress with my two conditions, where am I going  to be headed? What happens when I can no longer grow? Where am I  supposed to turn?" she says.
                     For now, the  answer to Lenox Smith's question is unclear, as states weigh the new  risks of opening dispensaries. Local governments are looking to a  lawsuit filed by the governor of Arizona to clarify the federal  government's stance on state marijuana programs. Meanwhile, the sale of  the drug continues to follow a pattern of fits and starts across the  country.


hxxp://www.npr.org/2011/05/28/136726993/buzz-kill-federal-warnings-hit-medical-pot-boom?sc=fb&cc=fp


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## Locked (May 28, 2011)

Someone (rhymes with Osama) needs to grow a set and do the right thing...the fact that alcohol and tobacco is legal and Marijuana is not only illegal but demonized is disgusting.

*This is not a political post....I voted for Our current president.*


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## babysnakess (May 28, 2011)

I think medical marijuana will make marijuana legal eventually and the feds won't be able to stop it. When I first started going in dispensaries I would see all these young people, and I asked a buddy whats up with this? He said some of them are probably doing what he did, going to see a doctor for pain for three visits. And then he asked his doctor to sign his paper work and they got into a knock down drag out argument, and he told his doctor I don't need you, just give me my medical records. Two hundred dollars later he has mmj. And a lot of the dispensaries are in it for the money.


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## Roddy (May 29, 2011)

The dispensaries will be and are a big part of the problem imho, people making tons of money without paying taxes or whatever will certainly irk unc sam. It truly is disgraceful how some pretend to be compassionate while selling for outrageous prices. Worse yet are the so-called caregivers who are out to do nothing more than profit from their "patients". SICKENING! The stories I hear of patients having to buy each and every gram from a caregiver...wow, might as well go to the dispensaries because you're being taken! My patients get as much as they need....and more in some cases!

When people stop profiting from this and start using it as it's meant, the whole system will work much better! And yes, I am all for med mj, but things are gonna have to change, that's for sure!


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## Erbal (May 29, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> The dispensaries will be and are a big part of the problem imho, people making tons of money without paying taxes or whatever will certainly irk unc sam.



I agree that the Uncle Sam, by which I really mean the Federal Reserve, hates missing out on taxable dollars, but the people that are stopping the taxation of MMJ are the people against MMJ. If MMJ was taxed and all of a sudden states started showing income instead of deficits, MMJ would be here to stay permanently.


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## Roddy (May 29, 2011)

Charging a fortune for something they sell in the name of compassion...and I bet they also complain about the big pharm crooks!


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## Locked (May 30, 2011)

There will always be those who only look out for themselves and take *full* advantage of the system in place. Where ever there is money to be made you will have greedy bastards. We the voters really need to use our votes wisely and put people into office that are actually for the cause of legalization and not just lining their pockets with money from big business *disguised* as a compassionate dispensary. I wonder just how interested the Feds wld be in all of this if there was not a bunch of money being made by people. I mean it is kind of like asking them to turn a blind eye to drug dealing with a big wink wink of the eye that it is a compassionate medical thing. What wld the Feds stance be if these dispensaries were pretty much giving away the *meds* to people with cards?


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## Roddy (May 30, 2011)

IDK, but it would surely look better than people profiting while thumbing their noses at the feds.....

I give mine away, I am happy to help those who need the help. IF I ever break even, I will feel lucky, if I ever turn a profit, it'll be donated to charity! I told my patients that, when I get things on track completely, I will up each of their monthly amount as I can so none will have to buy again! As long as they don't start selling, life is golden!


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## NorCalHal (May 30, 2011)

Too late...cat's outta the bag folks.
Compassion my butt......It's all about full legalization and making MJ an Industry. If you believe that MJ should only be for the sick and dieing, then give your herb away.
I'm here to tell you folks, either jump on the bandwagon or miss out completely on a whole new Industry that will allow you to make a living on your "Passion". We NEED more high end growers, that is for sure, as the market is allways flooded with poorly grown swag.

All this talk about "profiteering" makes me laugh. Most folks do not understand what it takes to grow good herb in quantities enough to supply the "sick and dieing" at even 1 club, let alone multiple.
Again, it is not going away, and in fact it will get worse. You can sit back and whine all day, it will stop nothing. The Industry NEEDS folks with passion, and yes, I mean US STONERS, because Big Pharma IS coming, and sooner then you think. They allready have FDA ready to approve them.

GW Pharmaceuticals today announces the initiation of the Phase III clinical trials programme of Sativex in the treatment of pain in patients with advanced cancer, who experience inadequate analgesia during optimized chronic opioid therapy," GW said in a statement. "This indication represents the initial target indication for Sativex in the United States

Who is crying now? It is going to happen,,,,period. Wake up and take control before we lose control.


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## Roddy (May 30, 2011)

So, profit more from those who should be able to get their plants....sounds about right!

Since it's happening, to hell with it, do as the crooks?? No THANKS, I'll sleep better at night!

I think anyone who grows this stuff knows what just one plant will produce, and how much it costs to produce it! For every patient, there's a grower waiting to make a buck, I hope you're not believing otherwise! Around here, at least....maybe we should export some growers your way?


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## Erbal (May 30, 2011)

This is a pretty hot topic to debate about, so I want to tell you what I have seen. I have seen dispensaries out in the world to make a buck and then I have seen dispensaries who make a buck off the 23 y/o with anxiety and give actual cancer patients free MMJ. If I had to choose between which one I would like to see more prevalent, it would be the latter of the two.



			
				Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> There will always be those who only look out for themselves and take *full* advantage of the system in place.



Hamster is pretty close to the truth there. I think it should read, "There will always be those who look out for themselves and take *full* advantage of *any* system in place." This goes for more than just MMJ. Shady business tactics take place all the time in the corporate sector, questionable tactics that infringe on our rights are used by the Fed, and the Federal Reserve enslaves the US with a never ending debt. It is certainly not localized with the MMJ issue, it is a cancerous problem amongst humanity.

Honestly, I am down for Mr. X making a buck or two. I mean, they put the time and effort into running a dispensary and supplying good/safe MMJ. It takes money to start and run a business and people should be getting paid to run  it. However, I do believe that they should be regulated and taxed like any other business in todays economy with some 'tax incentives' being free MMJ to *extremely ill* patients with those who are unable to afford the medication coming first before those with greater income.

I am down for MJ being street legal. Hell, I am even down with free MMJ, but if *everyone* was getting their stash for no cash, who would be paying for the nutes, lights, etc? Not everyone is as fortunate as others and are able to soak up those costs to hand out free herb.


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## SensiStarFan (May 30, 2011)

Published March 18, 2009 in the New York Times.....

First sentence of the article....
"Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Wednesday outlined a shift in the enforcement of federal drug laws, saying the administration would effectively end the Bush administration&#8217;s frequent raids on distributors of medical marijuana."

Just one more lie from a politician, they never end.

-SSF-


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## NorCalHal (May 31, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> So, profit more from those who should be able to get their plants....sounds about right!


 
you got me on this one...? What? 



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Since it's happening, to hell with it, do as the crooks?? No THANKS, I'll sleep better at night!
> 
> I think anyone who grows this stuff knows what just one plant will produce, and how much it costs to produce it! For every patient, there's a grower waiting to make a buck, I hope you're not believing otherwise! Around here, at least....maybe we should export some growers your way?


 

I sleep like a baby at night, let me tell you. What can 1 plant produce? from nothing to 9 lbs....quite a range.

So, why doesn't the "patient" just grow his/her own?? Any legal MMJ patient can, but most don't.

Wake up my friend. It is not going to end. Noone is going to give thier entire harvest away, not with production costs.
Of COURSE folks are making a buck...duh. You all don't get it. I would fair to say that most of us here have at one time or another stated that they would LOVE to grow weed for a living. Well, now is the time. It is possible and Legal if you follow your State guidlelines, at least here in Cali.

You are allowed to compensate yourself for your "Time and efforts". If you grow correctly and on a larger scale, it WILL be a full time job.

So now that there is a legitimate opportunity to make a living growing herb, folks flip out and say "give it away"...lol Maybe you havn't noticed the lack of work out there in the real world, MMJ has been a saving grace for MANY folks who are able to put food on thier tables without goverment help. At the same time they are providing herb to folks who would otherwise go without.

Don't hate on the growers supplying the clubs my friend, thank them.


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## NorCalHal (May 31, 2011)

AHHH...I just realized that Roddy is from MI. Now I get it. You boys are about 10 years behind in the game called MMJ. It will take 10 years to get the system "cleaned up" and shoddy Dispensary operators out. Believe Uncle Sam WILL be auditing Dispensaries in your State and that will cause the shady operators to close, while the folks who are playing by the rules will continue on.
Most all folks out here pay taxes on revenue gained from MMJ, including myself.


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## NorCalHal (May 31, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> The dispensaries will be and are a big part of the problem imho, people making tons of money without paying taxes or whatever will certainly irk unc sam. It truly is disgraceful how some pretend to be compassionate while selling for outrageous prices. Worse yet are the so-called caregivers who are out to do nothing more than profit from their "patients". SICKENING! The stories I hear of patients having to buy each and every gram from a caregiver...wow, might as well go to the dispensaries because you're being taken! My patients get as much as they need....and more in some cases!
> 
> When people stop profiting from this and start using it as it's meant, the whole system will work much better! And yes, I am all for med mj, but things are gonna have to change, that's for sure!


 
So you hate dispensaries......



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> This means smaller plants, but large harvests which will supply my 5 patients and myself while also affording a few spare oz's to sell to a few dispensaries I have already talked with and are waiting for my overages! This means I can cover my costs, allowing me to provide for my patients without breaking my bank!!!


 

Sounds a little hypocritical my friend.


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## niteshft (Jun 1, 2011)

I was selling to a vet with PTSD for cheep, just wanting to get a % of my investment back like electrical costs. I'm disabled so just barely making it from paycheck to paycheck. He called me the other day for a refill and heard someone in the background, he then doubled what he wanted. I told him the price was going up since it appears he's supplying someone else and probably recreationally. It pissed me off that he was taking advantage of my generosity and doing this behind my back. I've given him several ozs at no cost in the past but that is over with now.


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## Mutt (Jun 1, 2011)

I dunno about dispensaries anymore...thinkin would rather it remain illegal in my state...hell of a lot cheaper (70/ 1/8oz :holysheep


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## Hick (Jun 1, 2011)

CO the prices, both retail and wholesale, have dropped about 50% since the dispensary 'boom'. Two years ago, I saw most mmj @ disp' going for $15-$25 p/g. Top quality wholesale, to the clinics, $4-$5k.
   Today, $7--15 g, and clinics are now, by law, required to grow/produce their own product. They must have 'caregiver' status for enough patients to cover the number of plants they grow. "No" sales to clinics. (I know growers that were holding out for $4500 p/lb. last year, that are now "trying" to get $2500)
  Clinics are being required to film/document *EVERYTHING*, from 'seed to sales'. Even transport from grow to outlet, will be documented. Carrier, lic. plate #, vehicle description, time and date, amount left with, amount received. Every sale is filmed/documented. 
   Clinics can have multiple grow locations, but each location requires a 'permit' ($1500 I believe) and is subject to state inspections. Substantial "overhead", that is meant to drive the illegitimate out of business, but still pushing 'cost' up.


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## Mutt (Jun 1, 2011)

> $7--15 g


now that is a reasonable price.


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## NorCalHal (Jun 1, 2011)

Same gig....Dispensaries have really brought down prices....not raised them.


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## Roddy (Jun 1, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> So you hate dispensaries......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't believe I said I hate dispensaries, I believe I said I hated those that are profiting off the guise of compassion. And not hypocritical at all, I am selling to dispensaries I trust and know, dispensaries that actually do have compassion...hence the comment noting I may never break even. Not out to make a living off my friends in need....


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## Roddy (Jun 1, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> you got me on this one...? What?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Recouping for elec and time....that's not saying you are allowed to make a living. Are you paying taxes on these gains?


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## Roddy (Jun 1, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> CO the prices, both retail and wholesale, have dropped about 50% since the dispensary 'boom'. Two years ago, I saw most mmj @ disp' going for $15-$25 p/g. Top quality wholesale, to the clinics, $4-$5k.
> Today, $7--15 g, and clinics are now, by law, required to grow/produce their own product. They must have 'caregiver' status for enough patients to cover the number of plants they grow. "No" sales to clinics. (I know growers that were holding out for $4500 p/lb. last year, that are now "trying" to get $2500)
> Clinics are being required to film/document *EVERYTHING*, from 'seed to sales'. Even transport from grow to outlet, will be documented. Carrier, lic. plate #, vehicle description, time and date, amount left with, amount received. Every sale is filmed/documented.
> Clinics can have multiple grow locations, but each location requires a 'permit' ($1500 I believe) and is subject to state inspections. Substantial "overhead", that is meant to drive the illegitimate out of business, but still pushing 'cost' up.



State officials likely perceived wrong-doings and decided to go crazy in their effort to curb such practices....sad!


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## WeedHopper (Jun 1, 2011)

Everybody should grow thier own Smoke, and it wont matter. Course there are those that are to sick to grow,,so they would need a friend to grow it for them.
If yur not sick and just to lazy to grow yur own smoke,,,,,,I say to bad,,dont smoke.


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## Erbal (Jun 1, 2011)

WeedHopper said:
			
		

> Everybody should grow thier own Smoke, and it wont matter. Course there are those that are to sick to grow,,so they would need a friend to grow it for them.
> If yur not sick and just to lazy to grow yur own smoke,,,,,,I say to bad,,dont smoke.



:aok:


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## Roddy (Jun 1, 2011)

I want to make clear that I am not against anyone making a few $$ to recoup expenses and even pay for time, the law allows for this as should be.


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## valleyboy (Jun 1, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> CO the prices, both retail and wholesale, have dropped about 50% since the dispensary 'boom'. Two years ago, I saw most mmj @ disp' going for $15-$25 p/g. Top quality wholesale, to the clinics, $4-$5k.
> Today, $7--15 g, and clinics are now, by law, required to grow/produce their own product. They must have 'caregiver' status for enough patients to cover the number of plants they grow. "No" sales to clinics. (I know growers that were holding out for $4500 p/lb. last year, that are now "trying" to get $2500)
> Clinics are being required to film/document *EVERYTHING*, from 'seed to sales'. Even transport from grow to outlet, will be documented. Carrier, lic. plate #, vehicle description, time and date, amount left with, amount received. Every sale is filmed/documented.
> Clinics can have multiple grow locations, but each location requires a 'permit' ($1500 I believe) and is subject to state inspections. Substantial "overhead", that is meant to drive the illegitimate out of business, but still pushing 'cost' up.



My town and the cities surrounding it (immediately surrounding) don't support dispensaries so the market has resorted to delivery services.

I'm not sure about their legality but a few have been going strong for 3-4 years+.


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## NorCalHal (Jun 2, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Recouping for elec and time....that's not saying you are allowed to make a living. Are you paying taxes on these gains?


 
Allready stated......



			
				NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Most all folks out here pay taxes on revenue gained from MMJ, including myself.


 
As a Non Profit Collective, I AM allowed to make a living, as any CEO of ANY Non-Profit is allowed too. Just because United Way is Non-Profit, doesn't mean the folks that work for them do not make a living. I think Cali is a different monster then most states when it comes too MMJ and how the Industry is ran.

So, no disrespect Roddy, none at all. I take offence to folks slamming dispensaries in general when Dispensaries is what is allowing 10's of 1000's of folks to survive in todays economy. 
With that said, it is the CONSUMER that should be wise and make corrct choices on which dispensary they frequent. It's like the guy that buys Gas at Chevron for $4.50 a gal when he could go across the street to Arco and pay $3.50.....it's the consumers choice, or ignorance man.


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## Hick (Jun 2, 2011)

Disp/clinics have a considerable amount of cost in overhead. Permits, security, TAXES, storefront, employees, insurance.....  should be taken into consideration if we're going to talk prices and/or "profit margin"..


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## StoneyBud (Jun 2, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> Disp/clinics have a considerable amount of cost in overhead. Permits, security, TAXES, storefront, employees, insurance..... should be taken into consideration if we're going to talk prices and/or "profit margin"..


 
I understand and have removed my post.


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## Roddy (Jun 3, 2011)

No offense taken and no disrespect intended either, my friend!

As I have stated, dispensaries around here are said to be using "drug dealer" methods to up their sales of ALREADY overpriced products. Again, this is what I complain about! If there are reputable dispensaries out there, they will get the proper recognition and my rant will have no effect on them whatsoever. 

And truly, I blame the dispensaries, but the blame is equally on the growers who greedily sell the patient's meds instead of supplying the patient as should be....I suppose if the dispensaries didn't pay such high prices, there would be less draw for shady growers?

Hick said something about cameras recording every transaction etc...when I made my one and only purchase, the money went from my pocket to his and there was no record of any transaction ever taking place...this was how I envisioned all dispensaries.

I'll stand by my rant, and improve it a bit...DOWN with anyone who exploits the laws to take advantage of the patient!  Hey, DOWN with anyone who takes advantage of the patient...period!


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## Erbal (Jun 3, 2011)

Sadly, what you are seeing Roddy is just basic economics on a MMJ scale. Every new product that is considered 'new' will have few channels to be acquired from. As time dwindles on more channels open up and become available dropping the price while stabilizing the market.

As far as dispensaries that deal mostly in cash, that is done for many reasons that cover everything from patients wanting to keep there purchases off their electronic transactions to business like AMEX declining all purchases made from dispensaries.

I do agree that not every dispensary is out there for the good of humanity, but that does not mean a majority of them are out to screw the little guy.

P.S. your revised rant gets a :aok:


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## Roddy (Jun 4, 2011)

Erbal said:
			
		

> Sadly, what you are seeing Roddy is just basic economics on a MMJ scale. Every new product that is considered 'new' will have few channels to be acquired from. As time dwindles on more channels open up and become available dropping the price while stabilizing the market.
> 
> As far as dispensaries that deal mostly in cash, that is done for many reasons that cover everything from patients wanting to keep there purchases off their electronic transactions to business like AMEX declining all purchases made from dispensaries.
> 
> ...





We're not talking discretion, we're talking no proof any sale ever took place, no proof anyone ever visited. And around here, it does look like the majority are out for themselves and not the patient!


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## Hick (Jun 4, 2011)

Give it 'time' roddy ..   As the market/laws adjusts, it 'will' get better.  You sound a LOT like I did a couple of years ago  
'You'.. keep doing _what's right_, :aok:


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## NorCalHal (Jun 4, 2011)

Your kinda missing the BIG picture Roddy with the "movement". It is NOT about "supplying meds to patients", as most "patients" are not "sick and dieing". 
It is really about getting MJ out of the shadows and changing veiws on MJ.
It is all about having the choice to smoke herb if you choose, and not going to prison for it.
I've said it a million times.....MMJ is just a stepping stone to full decrim. Do not think that MJ should be for only "sick" folks, cause if you do, you are part of the problem.

It IS about our rights as Citizens to smoke up if we want too....period. It is about making Making MJ an Industry that is controlled by the people themselves, not crporations....though that is where it will be in 10 years.


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## Mutt (Jun 4, 2011)

> not crporations


Actually if you have a store front more then likely it's incorporated. or at least and LLC. So really dispensaries have already made it "corporate" just because it's not traded on the NASDAQ doesn't mean its not a corporation. I highly doubt any decent minded business savvy dispensary owner would make it a sole proprietorship and assume all liability. I know I wouldn't. Make it a corporation and put myself on a payroll. List my self as owner. but still have liability fall on the business. That way if the feds get it, everything is tied to the shop if you keep your paperwork right. Sole proprietar would mean house, bank accounts, everything is for grabs then. I doubt it would protect you much...but make it so the courts have to work harder through litigation to get it.


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## Roddy (Jun 4, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Your kinda missing the BIG picture Roddy with the "movement". It is NOT about "supplying meds to patients", as most "patients" are not "sick and dieing".
> It is really about getting MJ out of the shadows and changing veiws on MJ.
> It is all about having the choice to smoke herb if you choose, and not going to prison for it.
> I've said it a million times.....MMJ is just a stepping stone to full decrim. Do not think that MJ should be for only "sick" folks, cause if you do, you are part of the problem.
> ...



Absolutely, and if we're to be taken seriously, we have to jump through the hoops! If MMJ is to be a stepping stone, the laws should be followed with the patients' needs coming foremost so we are taken serious. I think you misunderstand me, my friend, I very much believe we should be free to smoke whether sick or not....walk before run!

As for the most patients aren't sick part...there too is part of the problem, but also helps to bring it to the gubnet's attn...a wash!


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## Roddy (Jun 4, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> Give it 'time' roddy ..   As the market/laws adjusts, it 'will' get better.  You sound a LOT like I did a couple of years ago
> 'You'.. keep doing _what's right_, :aok:



I kinda figured this was the case!


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## Roddy (Jun 5, 2011)

That guidance articulates the department&#8223;s balanced approach, which effectively focuses the limited federal resources on drug traffickers and organizations as opposed to individuals with serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law.

*The guidance also makes clear that federal officials will not tolerate those who hide behind claims of compliance with state laws to mask activity that is clearly illegal.*

Holton told NewsChannel 21 it's increasingly clear that some "dispensaries are selling marijuana quite openly," to the point of offering coupons, such as "14 grams free with five referrals."

They "seem to have missed entirely that voters resoundingly rejected dispensaries," the U.S. attorney said.

"The names tell it all -- Wake n Bake, High Society, Ganja Garage, Club 420, Club Pitbull -- and a new club, 'My Connect," Holton said. "Are we supposed to believe that people go to places like 'Wake n Bake' to get medicine?"

"Oregonians, who adopted a medical marijuana law in good faith, deserve an answer: *Are these places where people go to get medicine, or are these just drug dealers hiding behind the medical marijuana law?"* the U.S. attorney said.

Sounds like I'm not the only one seeing this kind of activity....


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## Straycat (Jun 7, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> So, profit more from those who should be able to get their plants....sounds about right!
> 
> Since it's happening, to hell with it, do as the crooks?? No THANKS, I'll sleep better at night!
> 
> I think anyone who grows this stuff knows what just one plant will produce, and how much it costs to produce it! For every patient, there's a grower waiting to make a buck, I hope you're not believing otherwise! Around here, at least....maybe we should export some growers your way?


 
Roddy, there is maybe one thing you are not considering.  I know some medical marijuana patients who are unable to work due to their illness and the only way to get their mmj is to grow it themselves with possibly the excess being used to pay utilities, living expenses, etc... I think that is a better scenario than giving it away, being foreclosed, and hoping on the kindness of someone to give it to you for free from that point forward, that is if you can get in touch with your charitable donor without the cell phone you used to own.

No, I am not against capitalism and I find dealing with most these dispensaries they are overly generous in their haggling and many have just said give me what you can.  After that they give 50% more than you just paid for.

In all this I think the most telling quote from U.S. Attorney Michael Ormsby is this: "We're talking, in some instances, about thousands of dollars a week being generated by these enterprises,"  I think what he is saying is that there are actually people out there successfully practicing capitalism -- without buying off a few politicians.  How dare they.  Anyhow, this is the essence of the problem -- that there are people making money out there that are not part of the inner circle.  I posted this on another thread but here is a link to an article to illustrate the Fed's intent as directed by Big Pharma.

hXXp://www.eastbayexpress.com/ebx/meet-your-new-pot-dealer-big-pharma/Content?oid=2665515


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## Roddy (Jun 8, 2011)

Sounds like someone making a living without paying taxes on their gains.....

I can't imagine any reason to break a law, whether it's growing dope or robbing a bank, to put food on the table.


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## NorCalHal (Jun 8, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I can't imagine any reason to break a law, whether it's growing dope or robbing a bank, to put food on the table.


 
This makes me ill. I suppose you never smoked herb until you became "legal". As Hick stated earlier, he thought the same way....until he saw the possibilities from an activity that has been a true "passion" for many of us here LONG before MMJ was a term, and that is growing herb.
I commited felonies daily until 1997, when I protected myself from leo by getting my MMJ card. If MMJ never came around, then I still would be, and folks like yourself would never have joined this forum.

Don't ever forget how the goverment treated us before mmj. Wake up.


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## Mutt (Jun 8, 2011)

> Don't ever forget how the goverment treated us before mmj.


Live it everyday Hal



> I commited felonies daily until 1997,


still rollin in 2011 here dude. 



> I can't imagine any reason to break a law


I can think of a few. 

when it comes to feeding my family. tell hell with society. I won't rob steal, or anything. but if something is marketable...i'm on it if I need to eat. I beleive in survival.

I am a proud civil disobedient. I will always be part outlaw.

Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington....all of em outlaws dude.

I'd rather be a wolf then a sheep any day.

Our govt. is the one that is breaking the law under the letter of the constitution.
I could so debate that statement from you Roddy and back it up with so much constitutional perspectives that you would see the truth of our govt. Should seriously pick up civil disobedience by  Thoreau. 


> If... the machine of government... is of such a nature that it requires you to be the agent of injustice to another, then, I say, break the law.  ~Henry David Thoreau, On the Duty of Civil Disobediance, 1849


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## Hick (Jun 8, 2011)

I seldom "buckle up"...:rofl:...


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## Mutt (Jun 8, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> I seldom "buckle up"...:rofl:...


Think of those poor sheep you might make widows!!!  :rofl:


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## Roddy (Jun 8, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> This makes me ill. I suppose you never smoked herb until you became "legal". As Hick stated earlier, he thought the same way....until he saw the possibilities from an activity that has been a true "passion" for many of us here LONG before MMJ was a term, and that is growing herb.
> I commited felonies daily until 1997, when I protected myself from leo by getting my MMJ card. If MMJ never came around, then I still would be, and folks like yourself would never have joined this forum.
> 
> Don't ever forget how the goverment treated us before mmj. Wake up.



Read what I wrote...didn't say I was a saint, I said I wasn't into making a living while worrying about the law breathing down my back. Also, not one to try to get change by unlawful acts.

Let me fill you in on a couple they busted just down the road...quiet older couple, he has cancer (throat) she has bad arthritis and some other ailments. Their flower business of many many years isn't doing good, hasn't for years, they have had to ask for their taxes reduced yearly just to afford to live on their land....until a few years ago! The drug enforcement teams broke down their gate, busted the doors down on their 5 giant commercial greenhouses and made a final bust of 8000 plants...yes, 8000! Street estimated value....$8mil

Couple's defense?? We were trying to make a living!  OH PLEASE!! Now?? Sitting in jail awaiting to know who is going to charge them with what....and how many of their elderly years they'll be spending in prison!

NO THANKS! You that feel the laws are unjust, you who feel the need to break the law for a living (we're not talking minimal sales, we're none saints here, right?)...maybe going by legal means to make change is a good start? I, as a taxpayer, sure do hate having to help pay for your living while they put you in our prisons and such.... :doh:

Oh, and makes you sick?? Really? Someone thinking along the law makes you sick? That's too bad, my friend....really! 

btw....been there, done that! They've taken one year of my life for a total of 1 joint and 2 roaches....think I'll stay as legal as possible, THANKS!


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## Locked (Jun 8, 2011)

Color me a law breaking felon as well....hell what I hve stored in jars for the Summer wld put me away for years and years. My state sucks and I am not gonna sit here waiting for things to change. I will use my head and be smart...I suggest everyone else growing illegally do the same.  Jmo


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## Straycat (Jun 8, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Read what I wrote...didn't say I was a saint, I said I wasn't into making a living while worrying about the law breathing down my back. Also, not one to try to get change by unlawful acts.
> 
> Let me fill you in on a couple they busted just down the road...quiet older couple, he has cancer (throat) she has bad arthritis and some other ailments. Their flower business of many many years isn't doing good, hasn't for years, they have had to ask for their taxes reduced yearly just to afford to live on their land....until a few years ago! The drug enforcement teams broke down their gate, busted the doors down on their 5 giant commercial greenhouses and made a final bust of 8000 plants...yes, 8000! Street estimated value....$8mil
> 
> ...


 

Roddy, if I were as judgemental as you or were to use anecdotal evidence to prove a point I would say that for you to spend a year in confinement for one joint and two roaches you would have had to have been doing somethings far worse than that to get such a harsh outcome given that possession of that is a misdemeanor in most states.  Well, I'm not as judgemental as you so I won't say that.  I'll just say that when the world becomes a complete police state where a teenager gets his hand cut off for stealing a candy bar or something, you will be a much happier man I'm sure.


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## nouvellechef (Jun 9, 2011)

You all are some wild and crazy guys. Keep up da growin. Just make sure you fully understand a pro-forma if your doing this for a living. Otherwise it's a crapshoot.


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## Roddy (Jun 9, 2011)

Straycat said:
			
		

> Roddy, if I were as judgemental as you or were to use anecdotal evidence to prove a point I would say that for you to spend a year in confinement for one joint and two roaches you would have had to have been doing somethings far worse than that to get such a harsh outcome given that possession of that is a misdemeanor in most states.  Well, I'm not as judgemental as you so I won't say that.  I'll just say that when the world becomes a complete police state where a teenager gets his hand cut off for stealing a candy bar or something, you will be a much happier man I'm sure.



OBVIOUSLY, you have no clue how I think of you or others, please don't stoop to playing the jabs game here. What makes you think I enjoy people having to break the law to smoke? What makes you think you know anything about me?

Yep, a year....2 different stints, one 9 mo and one 3 mo...and YES, for a joint (first time) and 2 roaches (second time)...check my records and you'll see I don't lie...and wouldn't ever to make a point to someone I don't even know let alone anyone I did! Ever hear of probation?? Yep, got probation and told them to stick it first time (not taking piss tests, sorry), they knew the second time.

I try to be friendly to all, I enjoy a good convo and debate....but this kind of posting is sad!


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## NorCalHal (Jun 10, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Read what I wrote...didn't say I was a saint, I said I wasn't into making a living while worrying about the law breathing down my back. Also, not one to try to get change by unlawful acts.


 
cmon meow. Not one to make change by commiting unlawful acts?????? HELLO...this is AMERICA...the land of change thru unlawful acts bro. You wouldn't be on your high horse if it wasn't for the souljahs before you getting locked up so you can pretend you are on the laws side of MMJ. Gimme a break. Never forget that YOU too are a FELON...committing FELONIES on a FEDERAL level.......




			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> NO THANKS! You that feel the laws are unjust, you who feel the need to break the law for a living (we're not talking minimal sales, we're none saints here, right?)...maybe going by legal means to make change is a good start? I, as a taxpayer, sure do hate having to help pay for your living while they put you in our prisons and such.... :doh:
> 
> Oh, and makes you sick?? Really? Someone thinking along the law makes you sick? That's too bad, my friend....really!
> 
> btw....been there, done that! They've taken one year of my life for a total of 1 joint and 2 roaches....think I'll stay as legal as possible, THANKS!


 
You just don't get it. It takes court cases to get laws defined and changed bud.....not wishful thinking and letters to your congressman...believe that.

I understand your way of thinking Roddy, I really do. MMJ is new to you cats and you want to think that you are all legal, but in fact, no one is. You want to play by "the rules". But understand the Industry is new, and the ruleset is yet to be defined and is consistently changing by EVERY court case. It takes PIONEERS to make change. Dude...you have had MMJ for only 3 years....is that how long you have been growing? I take it you never grew before it was "legal"? That would explain alot. 

Most of us here grew long before MMJ was a term bro. Most of us use MMJ to protect ourselves, as it was meant to be used. Don't get caught up in the gov hype of MMJ.


Mutt....I Love you Bro! Souljah forever! Some folks will never understand where we came from.......


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## Locked (Jun 10, 2011)

For the record NCH I understand what you are saying and agree....I think the problem is the rest of the country is so far behind Cali when it comes to MMJ. A lot of folks still think that Cali's lax MMJ laws are hurting the cause when in reality it is just a stepping stone and a "shield" to protect those that feel MJ shld be legal and smoked by consenting adults no matter if they are sick or not. None of that takes away from the fact that MJ helps a lot of sick people...but we are fighting for more then just Medical Marijuana.  JMO


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## Roddy (Jun 10, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> cmon meow. Not one to make change by commiting unlawful acts?????? HELLO...this is AMERICA...the land of change thru unlawful acts bro. You wouldn't be on your high horse if it wasn't for the souljahs before you getting locked up so you can pretend you are on the laws side of MMJ. Gimme a break. Never forget that YOU too are a FELON...committing FELONIES on a FEDERAL level.......
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't PRETEND anything, and I'm no felon on ANY level unless and until convicted, THANKS!

Pioneers doing things legally and through legal means, not criminals breaking the laws that we are trying to use as stepping stones to make MJ legal...period. Truly, are you telling me you believe it takes breaking laws to make change! And if you want to say "FEDERALLY"....give me a break! When DEA come knocking on my door, I'll start to worry about FEDS...ok? I bet big bucks, Unc Obama ain't sending the big guys over to my state legal grow op used solely to supply myself and my patients...unlike MUCH bigger fish TRULY breaking the laws!

*You want to play by "the rules". But understand the Industry is new, and the ruleset is yet to be defined and is consistently changing by EVERY court case.*

Yep...and playing by the rules is the SAFEST way to go....you have fun going the way you choose!

Nothing you say can change my mind and I am not judging anyone....have fun with it. But please, don't pretend to be trying to help the laws by breaking them.....not saying YOU yourself are, just generalizing here!

MY GUESS....and this is merely a guess here....change will take place from the STATE LEVEL first (ummm...is already???). Get enough states in and FEDS can't hardly say no...right? Of course, enough people making it look bad for those of us trying to make it look good.....well, the states may not be so happy to jump on board?? I guess you could say we are ALL following you Cali's....sure hope you don't screw it up for us   

Merely mho...and my rantings. Shout me down if you please!


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## Roddy (Jun 12, 2011)

Straycat said:
			
		

> Roddy, if I were as judgemental as you *or were to use anecdotal evidence to prove a point* I would say that for you to spend a year in confinement for one joint and two roaches you would have had to have been doing somethings far worse than that to get such a harsh outcome given that possession of that is a misdemeanor in most states.  Well, I'm not as judgemental as you so I won't say that.  I'll just say that when the world becomes a complete police state where a teenager gets his hand cut off for stealing a candy bar or something, you will be a much happier man I'm sure.




Not sure what you find "anecdotal" but I assume you disbelieve the 8000 plant arrest comment?? Check the Michigan thread in the news section for the story of the arrest...

And if it's the 1 year for 1 joint 2 roaches....addressed above.


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## Johnny Trip (Jun 12, 2011)

Societies are corrupt, politicians are corrupt.
In my country they don't legalize it because most of the illegal contraband with drugs in my country are allowed, and even helped, by politicians with power and while they are getting ever richer, a lot of people are starving. If Mj was legal, like in holland, the country would get a lot of money from it and from tourism also, money that we really need, but politicians in my country, even the president are selling the country cheap for their own self, cops are selling confiscated drugs while the poor and the many are between hammer and anvil.
Laws don't mean anything here, they aren't made to protect you nor benefit you in any way, contrary to the constitution and their supposed use.
Edit:I know this didn't had much to do with the subject, I saw it later, but I felt a urge to share it.


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## WeedHopper (Jun 17, 2011)

Yur killen my Buzzzzzz with all this bickering. 
 I personally am thankfull for PPL in Cali fighting this cause for so long. What few changes that have been made in our Country towards leagalization of MJ is because of Cali and its PPL. Your always gonna have those who take advantage of others no matter what thier business is.


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## AlkaloidContent (Jun 17, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I am a proud civil disobedient. I will always be part outlaw.
> 
> Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Paine, Benjamin Franklin, George Washington....all of em outlaws.
> 
> I'd rather be a wolf then a sheep any day.


 
This is why our our founding fathers created a very sensible set of rights in reference to laws. Granted things like slavery we're legal and Constitute, however times we're very different then, marijuana was legal too.

The thing is in time as our country was founded by individuals who felt they were being taken from and werent being given true human rights. 


In time our country has merely rolled into a Capitalist society, through decendants who took our rights for less and less. Alot of things were good ideas. However our drug-war is just a pure capitalist venture. If it doesnt rake in the green then they want nothing to do with it. More money goes into the pockets of law enforcement to fight it. Think about it if a certain level of crime was just all of a sudden not illegal anymore, law enforcement would suffer cutbacks. Think about it drugs and traffic are two of the biggest revenue generators in law enforcement. Take away Mj and the drug war revenue would begin to lack being that Mj is the most common street drug. Then our cops would really sit around doing nothing or having an entire police force show up to a traffic violation so they can all get a slice.

Plus politicians will say and do what they know will get the voters on their side. Politicians make alot of money and it is a high mighty thing to be in any class of society. Simply put if they know the voters dont want marijuana, then they wont go for it, if the voters state otherwise they will be all for it.

Voting is the answer in this country. At the least it will turn a non-MJ politician into one who fight for our rights.


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## feelfree (Jun 18, 2011)

i heart you guys..




			
				Mutt said:
			
		

> Live it everyday Hal
> 
> 
> still rollin in 2011 here dude.
> ...


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## Mutt (Jun 18, 2011)

> The thing is in time as our country was founded by individuals who felt  they were being taken from and werent being given true human rights.





> Voting is the answer in this country.



I so wish I could agree with you. but you are so far from the actual truth.
The media controls votes, the govt. has control of our media. The states fear the federal govt. 
Our govt. is in direct violation of law. Yet they have no problem throwing it in our face. They use fear, mis-information, and have made this country dependent on them. This is tyranny.  
If you haven't noticed the big huge picture of conflict inside our borders shows dissent. People against people, cops against civilians, and propaganda being shovelled by our media, and they are caught on a regular basis. They have no shame in spreading their viewpoint without being non-biased.
This is not conspiracy thinking...this is downfall of a huge society. We have been warned over and over by even politicians, supreme court judges, and many others that our current state of the union is heading towards disastor.
I do vote, but I hold no faith in it. We the voters don't even get to nominate the people that get the presidential nod. That is done by the media polls in conjunction with the party. If you think the electoral college and all the bi-partisan rhetoric depicts the true voice of the people, then I am sorry for our country.

Our "human rights" are at risk. They were outlined in the bill of rights. How come our own Capital of the US has a ban on the second amendment. Those bill of rights are there and could not be taken away, yet our Governor is being sued for her opinion, our search and seizure laws have been stripped, We have the freedom of speech....until it is against our federal govt. policy. I can go on and on state by state law by law which have directly infringed on our RIGHTS.

Hey the fight needs you people, but it also needs people like me.

but if you think that our govt. does not have the power to sway votes, manufacture scenerios that will determine a better outcome, then that is sheep mentality.

If our country keeps heading in the direction it is it's going to end up dog eat dog. Just like Russia, Greece, China, The Roman Empire, The French Revolution, I can go on and on and on.
Those that ignore history are bound to repeat it.


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## Roddy (Jun 18, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I so wish I could agree with you. but you are so far from the actual truth.
> The media controls votes, the govt. has control of our media. The states fear the federal govt.
> Our govt. is in direct violation of law. Yet they have no problem throwing it in our face. They use fear, mis-information, and have made this country dependent on them. This is tyranny.
> If you haven't noticed the big huge picture of conflict inside our borders shows dissent. People against people, cops against civilians, and propaganda being shovelled by our media, and they are caught on a regular basis. They have no shame in spreading their viewpoint without being non-biased.
> ...



That's always bothered me.....


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