# Please help me



## bc0430 (Jan 21, 2013)

I've tried a few forums but I haven't gotten any info. *I'm really hoping that we can revive our plants, any help is  greatly appreciated. They are 4th week into bud and up until this point  have been doing amazing. Dark green, growing fast and super bushy. Last  Tuesday we flushed them with straight water, PH was checked and right  on. Friday night we ran Blossom blood through them for the first time  (our first time using this, we heard it was really good- is anyone  familiar with this?). We checked on the plants last night at 10:30pm  (Saturday), all were good and still a bit heavy so we planned on  watering today or tomorrow. This morning we went in at 7:30am to close  our veg room door so the light wouldn't disturb the ones flowering and  they looked like this! All of them were extremely dry and crispy and the  leaves curled up. In only 9 hours! Everything is on timers but it looks  like one of our 2 large fans turned off so our guess is heat burn? It  wouldn't have anything to do with the blossom blood would it? We watered  this morning and most of the fan leaves are coming back, most plants  are softening, but a few are still crispy. We misted them twice since  watering. We have fans going and the door open to cool our grow rooms.  Is there anything else we can do? Do we have a chance? Will it stunt the  bud growth if they do make it? There's 38 all together with only 4-ish  weeks left, we can't lose them! (Slightly panicking) They still look pretty rough today. What leaves were softening last night, are back to dry and crunchy. Should I try revive?
*


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## Locked (Jan 21, 2013)

Dry and crispy curled up leaves? Sounds like a major ph problem, over feeding, or a heat issue like you said. Pics would help us.


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## Locked (Jan 21, 2013)

Gotta lose the live link bc...click this and it will help you post your pics on MP.

>>>http://www.marijuanapassion.com/how_to_upload_pictures.html<<<

Even if peeps wanted to click that link you have to be a member of that Tool Shed RIU in order to see the pic.


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## bc0430 (Jan 21, 2013)

ok, I figured it out. Here is one of the worst and most crunchy ones. The fan leaves came back but the tops leaves are bad.


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## Locked (Jan 21, 2013)

Wow...how hot did it get in your grow space? Tell us about your grow space. How many sqr feet? What kind and how much light? What is your ventilation set up like?


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## bc0430 (Jan 21, 2013)

It's about a 10'x15' room, the plants are raised on a bench in an L shape. We have 6 1000w sodium lights. I'm not sure how hot it got, it was normal temperature when we went in to check on them at 10:30pm Saturday night, Sunday morning it was a little warmer than usual but they all looked like this. We have 2 vortex fans, venting is 6 inch. One of them had shorted and turned off at some point in the night (the timer for that one is apparently messed) A few of the plants that were under the fan that was working have perked back up and look back to normal, but the majority (I''d say about 34 of the 38) are still rough looking.


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## Locked (Jan 21, 2013)

Huh...doesn't really sound like it got hot enough in there to have caused this. I hear the word crispy and think ph but I didn't see anything in your pic that screamed a ph problem. Maybe it was related to that new Nutrient you added? Not sure...wish I could be of more help.


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## bc0430 (Jan 21, 2013)

Ya, part of me was wondering about the Blossom blood, but really only because it's new and it was the day before that we used it. I just don't know if it could do this much damage, this fast? When we flushed before the blossom blood, all of the runoff and soil PH was checked and was perfect so I don't think that was it. We're super careful with PH. This plant that I took a pic of, I just touched a leaf and a piece broke off. This is so devastating. I'm going to go pick up some revive and see if that can save any. Will a problem like this badly affect the yield?


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## pcduck (Jan 21, 2013)

Are you sure it was Blossom Blood?
This item looks like it is for pH control.



			
				rambridge.com/products/garden/blossom/blossom.aspx said:
			
		

> BLOSSOM BLOOD
> 
> 
> Selective pH Control Water Treatment
> ...


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## kaotik (Jan 21, 2013)

> What leaves were softening last night, are back to dry and crunchy. Should I try revive?


this throws me off.. and the look.. looks like condition caused, more than bad food/ph/or something.
it was getting better, then overnight got worse again?.. what changes overnight?
do they get fresh air still?
do you run co2?
are your lights on daytime or nighttime?

common sense says it's likely from the blossom bud if it went tits up right after.. but i dunno.
looks like you took all the moisture from em somehow.
sorry not much help, an odd case this is


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## bc0430 (Jan 21, 2013)

Our lights are on at night time, 7pm-7am right now, so I'm wondering if they got bad again because of light/heat last night. The fan is fixed now though so it didn't over heat again. We were recommended the blossom blood to help produce bigger buds, and were told to use it once the buds were well established (3ish weeks into budding). We don't run co2. We watered with our week 8 nutrients yesterday before the lights turned on and that's when they started to soften and come back a little. I'm assuming it's heat burn because there's a few plants that were under the working fan when the other turned off, and they're doing good. They were also given blossom blood.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 21, 2013)

That very much looks like "hot and dry". When you went into the grow room in the morning before the lights went off, what was the temperature? and do you know what the humidity is/was? I suspect that a combination of heat and dry air did this. You say you have 2 vortex fans, are they exausting the heat out of the space or just used to blow air around room? If they are exausting, do you have any oscillating fans to move the air around the plants? You have 6 1000wHPS, they put out quite a bit of heat. Are they in hoods or tubes connected to the vertex fans?


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## bc0430 (Jan 21, 2013)

My husband didn't check the temp! Just panicked. We have always had an issue keeping humidity up, it's about 50%. We've been doing this a year and have never had this happen before. The last two yield were unimpressive but we sorted everything out this time and they were doing awesome. I can't believe this happened so quickly. The vortex fans are pushing the heat out of the room and we have oscillating fans in there to move the air around. We just put revive in/on them and checked the runoff. The PH was 6.0 so that's good but the PPM was at 1600! Alot of the fan leaves that have come back are yellow so I think chemical burn (especially with the amount of nutrients). And no, our lights are not enclosed. About 13-15 look not awful, but not amazing like before. Losing 23 would be horrific. I am REALLY praying this revive stuff works on them. At this rate with my anxiety level over this, I'm going to need the biggest yield I can get...


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## pcduck (Jan 21, 2013)

What media are you using to grow in?

Soil pH 6.5

Hydro pH 5.8


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## bc0430 (Jan 22, 2013)

We use soil. By PH, I meant the run off (water) was 6.0


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## Locked (Jan 22, 2013)

bc0430 said:
			
		

> We use soil. By PH, I meant the run off (water) was 6.0




I don't pay much mind to run off...I don't even check it. Are you ph'ing the water and nutrients you are giving to your plants? For soil the ph has to be in a range of 6.3-6.8. I ph everything to 6.5. If you don't ph and you are not growing Organic you are asking for problems.  If you need a ph meter I use Eseasongear.com. Good prices, good service.


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## trillions of atoms (Jan 22, 2013)

ok......why did you flush?

looks like overwatering and hot/dry....


dont water again till the containers dry out. we need more pics of the yellowing to assess if its overfeeding too...

the ph needs to come up too...


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## trillions of atoms (Jan 22, 2013)

and imo if you didnt add dolomite lime to the soil you need to top dress and water in the next time you do. that will keep the ph around the zone.


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## bc0430 (Jan 22, 2013)

Awesome, thanks! We ph the nutrients and water, and always have it between 6.0-6.3 but were just told to do closer to 6.3-6.5. I ran revive through them last night and also used it as a foliage spray. There are a few plants that look fantastic and a lot that look awful. I have been trying to do as much research as I can to see if they can be saved and I'm not really getting any answers. Some say give them a week and they'll be good, just harvest a week or 2 later than schedule, some say they won't make it. A lot have really crunchy leaves on the top that break if you touch them, on those plants the buds seem crunchy, but the lower leaves are looking a lot better and are fanned out again. Is there a point to keep going with these? Or once they're crunchy will the buds still grow? According to our schedule, they have another 4-5 weeks left.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 22, 2013)

bc0430 said:
			
		

> My husband didn't check the temp! Just panicked. We have always had an issue keeping* humidity up, it's about 50%*. We've been doing this a year and have never had this happen before. The last two yield were unimpressive but we sorted everything out this time and they were doing awesome. I can't believe this happened so quickly. The vortex fans are pushing the heat out of the room and we have oscillating fans in there to move the air around. We just put revive in/on them and checked the runoff. *The PH was 6.0 so that's good but the PPM was at 1600!* Alot of the fan leaves that have come back are yellow so I think chemical burn (especially with the amount of nutrients). And no, our lights are not enclosed. About 13-15 look not awful, but not amazing like before. Losing 23 would be horrific. I am REALLY praying this revive stuff works on them. At this rate with my anxiety level over this, I'm going to need the biggest yield I can get...


Your humidity being at 50% is OK, you want to "ideally" keep it around 45-60%. Having the lights uncovered in a grow space will generate a lot of heat(especially 6 1Khps lights) that is tricky to remove from a space. Given that you had one fan to fail overnight could have lent itself to your problem. 

If you are in organic then PPM is irrelevent as it cannot be accurately measured. But it does sound like you may have overfed them. I am not sure why you flushed them. In organic growing, you shouldn't need to flush your plants unless you have somehow overdosed them on nutrients or gave them chemical nutrients.

I would highly recommend that you get either cooltubes or large vented, enclosed hoods for them bulbs so that you can more easily remove the heat that they generate. I would daisy chain no more than 3 1K lights together to one exaust fan then connect the other 3 lights to the other exaust fan, and allow them to pull air from the room through the lights and draw fresh air in passively.

Its nearly impossible to say for sure which ones will survive and which ones will die. It is most certainly a waiting game now. Your yield will definitely suffer from this and it will push back the harvest date. You can basically take the length of time starting with seeing the first day of damage until they start back growing either bud or new leaf sets, and add that to the end of the grow. So if it takes a week for it to recover then you will have to add a week to the harvest date. But even then the yield will suffer and there's no way to know how much. 

If this had happened during veg then it wouldn't have affected the yield as you would be able to veg it longer and get the plant back to where it should be. But once it has started blooming, the stage is set so to speak and any damage then will remove that much growth. It doesn't mean that the harvest will be wiped out, just that it will lose some according to the level of damage.

I wouldn't toss any of them out at this point as they are already there in flowering. You just have to wait and see, and don't get impatient and start trying different things to enhance the outcome as that will only make it worse more often than not. Once you know that you have a plant that is going to die way back and not have hardly any buds then you can pull those. 

I hope this helps you


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## trillions of atoms (Jan 22, 2013)

:goodposting:  

x2


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## pcduck (Jan 22, 2013)

What is the pH of the water after you add your Blossom Blood prior to watering your plants??


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## bc0430 (Jan 22, 2013)

we had the ph at 6.5 with the blossom blood before we watered


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## pcduck (Jan 22, 2013)

This was the pH of the water with Bloom Blood and not the run off correct?


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## bc0430 (Jan 22, 2013)

yup! That's right, the water we gave them (with the b.b.) was 6.5, the run off when we gave them the revive yesterday was 6.0 ph.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 23, 2013)

*PC :* I don't believe that this problem is a PH issue. It is something that you always want to eliminate whenever you have a problem, and it is certainly critical to make sure what you are putting in matches the medium type PH wise. But I believe this problem is heat and overnute combined. BC said that they have 6 1kw HPS lights in the space with either naked bulbs or open reflectors. That is a lot of heat to handle, and they had one of their exaust fans go out the same night that the problem occured. I had 2 open 250w HPS lights in a 10sqft space and had nothing but grief from trying to ballance heat and cooling, I can't imagine what kind of heat 6 1kw lights would generate. 

In any given grow environment you don't want the temps in the room to go outside the range of 70-80f during "daylight", unless you are injecting CO2 and containing the atmosphere, then I believe the temp range is 80-90f


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## pcduck (Jan 23, 2013)

Just trying to figure out what this Blossom Blood is *Hush*.
As the manufacturer states it is a pH stabilizing salt and does not have any N-P-K ratings..also mentioned by sales info that less is better when using their product....Sounds like organic acids to me which will burn your plants. But not much info is given from the manufacturer.



			
				hushpuppy said:
			
		

> In any given grow environment you don't want the temps in the room to go outside the range of 70-80f during "daylight", unless you are injecting CO2 and containing the atmosphere, then I believe the temp range is 80-90f



That is what some say, but
Don't tell equatorial regions mj this.... they may stop growing.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 23, 2013)

I am not trying to argue with you *PC*, just throwing out my opinion from the info given. I agree with you on the Blossom blood. I know nothing about it, but it looks like it may have been at an overdose level.

I should not have said "in any given grow environment", I meant "in any given inside, contained environment" these temps are the typical optimum level. You know that plants growing naturally in any region will not adhere to the rules of indoor growing. That is because Mother Nature knows more about growing than we will ever learn.


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## pcduck (Jan 23, 2013)

Not saying you are *hush* but since I never gave an opinion on the cause. I was confused on why you were trying to school me on the health and welfare of pH control?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 23, 2013)

I wasn't at all trying to school you man(I suspect you have waay more experience than I do), I was just throwing out my op with some explanation as to my thinking. I apologize if I stepped on yer toes, as I didn't mean to do that. I just saw that his situation seems pretty dire so I wanted to help him get to a solution as quick as possible. I threw it out to you because you have a lot of experience and could shoot anything down that I may have missed in my diagnosis. It always seems like with a tricky issue that 2 people batting ideas back and forth will catch things missed and come up with a solid solution pretty quick


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## bc0430 (Jan 24, 2013)

"Her" situation  There's probably not many girls on here hey. Thank you guys so much for your answers, info and help. I am SO happy to tell you that my girls have done a complete turn around. There is an unbelievable amount of new growth. I went in and picked off all the dead/crunchy leaves (the ones that were falling off anyways) Buds are getting bigger and are super sticky and smell great. I'll wait until the lights come on and I'll take a picture, I'm not sure if it was the revive but the difference is amazing. I'm almost guessing that they got root burn? The nutrient levels were so high. I don't know much about plants and have been learning as I go but I'm thinking that they were unable to absorb water and when the fan went that they just cooked. The heat was lowered and they were sprayed down. We are going to flush tonight but I'm so relieved. Thanks again guys!


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## Rosebud (Jan 24, 2013)

Glad you got them straightened out. I am another female grower. Welcome.


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## Locked (Jan 24, 2013)

Awesome news...thanks for letting us know they turned around.


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## bc0430 (Jan 24, 2013)

Thank you! I'm hoping I won't need this section of the forums again though...


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## Locked (Jan 24, 2013)

bc0430 said:
			
		

> Thank you! I'm hoping I won't need this section of the forums again though...




Lol...Us too.    Hope you stick around though.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 24, 2013)

Sorry about the "gender bender" BC, force of habit as most I speak with are male. Glad to hear the kids will pull through ok. Any time you have questions, don't be afraid to ask


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## Sin inc (Jan 25, 2013)

yes glad to hear the good news bc0430 .looking forward to hearing and seeing alot from you and your husband. welcome to the family


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## bc0430 (Jan 25, 2013)

Oh I'll be around, leeching as much info off you guys as possible!


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## bc0430 (Jan 25, 2013)

6 days later, we're getting there! (sorry for the sideways photo, I don't know why it's doing that, it's normal on my comp)


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 26, 2013)

Hey that looks so much better. I'm glad they pulled through for you. They should finish nice


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## TwoHighCrimes (Jan 27, 2013)

Hi there bc0430 .
I rotated her for you . 
Its good to see you have resolved the problem ...


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## Locked (Jan 27, 2013)

Looks good...


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## bc0430 (Jan 28, 2013)

geeze guys (and girls), these plants are killing me. Quite a few were doing a lot better, some not as great but decent, but there's some things happening now suddenly. After doing a TON of reading and searching, I am like 99.9% positive that our problem has been Nitrogen toxicity all along. Exactly what I'm reading on it sounds like whats happened. Unable to soak up water which makes for extremely dry conditions, looks like a drought, the damage starting halfway up the plant to the top etc. Now, we're getting the claw leaves with yellowing/brown on the tips. 
I can find so much information on what it is, and a lot on what to do with a N deficiency, but nothing on how I can fix toxicity. The interesting thing is that they haven't gotten nutrients in a while. They've been flushed, given blossom blood, given revive and then flushed one last time (We were told root burn from nutes, so to get them flushed before adding nutes again- PPM was at around 1500!). We were planning on starting up nutes again tonight. Has anyone dealt with this before? I can't believe I didn't even think of this. I was looking at our babies last night and was like oh wow, some of those leaves are DARK green... isn't that nitrogen? *light comes on* ooomg nitrogen... Anyways, I feel pretty delusional at this point that I'm still hoping that I'll actually get a yield off these things with all these ups and downs, this has been such a disaster in the last two weeks? The plant and bud size was amazing for where they're at, think I can fix this and continue successfully?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 28, 2013)

I don't believe your initial problem was nitrogen toxicity. One of the biggest problems I see is that you panicked and tried too many things at once and now have them in a tail spin. The Bud Blood first and then the Revive is probably to blame for the apparent nute burn that you are seeing now. You had too high nutrient ppm to begin with when you applied the Bud Blood and that began the problems. Then the heat issue just magnified the problem. by flushing them, you corrected the problem but then recreated a new problem with the Revive. If you have flushed out everything again and then allowed them to rest for a few days, then you can start back with regular nutes at about 700-800ppm but no higher for about a week and see how they do. They are probably going to get a little worse before thay get better. After 7-10 days you can increase the nutes to about 1000ppm. If they continue to do better, you can increase the nutes to about 12-1300ppm but I wouldn't go any higher.

Having this major hickup will certainly affect the yield but to how much is anyone's guess. The big thing you are going to have to watch out for now is "stress herming". Examine the buds every day until harvest for little tiny yellow bananna looking things growing out of the buds. They are only a few millimeters long but the bright yellow stands out pretty good in the buds. If you start seeing them pop out, you can snip them out but if you start seeing a bunch then its time to chop as they will wreck the harvest.

The most important thing is be patient and don't panick


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## bc0430 (Jan 28, 2013)

Yup, inexperience is definitely showing in the problem solving stage, thank you so much for your input!


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 29, 2013)

It actually gets easier with time and experience. Most of us have had our crash and burn moments. I just made a mistake yesterday by pouring half of a gallon of bloom nutrients into my veg hydro tank when it should have only been 20ml. My ppm went from 750ppm to 1900ppm. Not to mention I wasted $20 worth of important nutes. :doh:


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 4, 2013)

hushpuppy is right IMO. whenever I have had significant damage to my plants it is better to be patient during recovery and not overwhelm them with too much care. keep in mind that these are weeds and in nature no one would be there to help them along. I know it sucks but you wilol lose some weight, how much is dependant on how much sufferage. when the plants are crunchy they have lost all water in them which tells me its not taking it up or its too hot and water is evaporating  too fast either way. monitor your ph and use just ph'ed water until things start to return to normal. I recently sprayed a new seedling motherplant that was 3 weeks old with some organic insecticide that contained different oils in ti ie clove rosemary peppermint and thyme, and it burnt the hell out of it. i just left it alone and used just water for the next two weeks and much to my amazement they look beautiful again, tons of new growth. these things are hardy and will bounce back if not over nurtured. JMO


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## trillions of atoms (Feb 4, 2013)

yup.....dont kill um' with kindness unless its people.


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