# L.E.D. Grow Lights



## Piperson (Jul 2, 2008)

*High!

ne1 have any experience **with** or can offer advice  on L.E.D. growlights? Here's a link to one that seems good. And it's low heat. hxxp://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SsSSFw-2wDEJ:cgi.ebay.com/LED-GROW-LIGHT-50-watt-HIGH-POWER-HPS-MH-UFO-PANEL-900_W0QQitemZ160253058540QQihZ006QQcategoryZ42225QQcmdZViewItem+High+Output+50+Watt+LED+Panel&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a

ne feed back would be appriciated.

Thanks,
Piperson
*


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## Runbyhemp (Jul 3, 2008)

There's been a few attempted LED grows here. From what I've seen they don't even come close to HPS. I believe they're good for growing lettuce.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 3, 2008)

I believe that there has been some success using tons of them to veg, but for flowering, they are pretty bad.  Do a search on LEDs (plural)--there are quite a few threads you can read.


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## Piperson (Jul 3, 2008)

* Thanks. I had tried a search for led but nothing turned up earlier. So I did LEDs like you said and found a bunch. 

It looks very interesting because of the lower operating cost and the low heat, I need both. 

I'm gonna start reading up on it now. Thanks again for your help.***


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## Rogue (Jul 6, 2008)

I am currently doing a LED grow. I was curious myself so I decided to try it. What I have learned so far is the only red and blue lights are ok but really don't give enough of the needed spectrum. I started my plants with some lamps that were custom made for a friend who was thinking of selling them. He received some samples and gave me 6 of them to test, since I have done a few grows in my time and he never has. These lights were made to be very red heavy and stretched the plants a whole lot during veg. I added a warm white LED spot that I bought and they did much better. I think they have a whole lot of promise, but after doing a bunch of research on my own I think most of the LED growlight sellers out there are really snake oil salesman. 

The red and blue light studies done by NASA that everyone quotes were done to grow lettuce and other leafy plants. They were also done to use as little energy as possible, not to produce the most per plant. The idea being to suplement the food on a long space flight as well as remove some of the CO2 from the air with minimal energy requirements. Red LEDs generate alot of light per watt of energy used and are on the peak of the par lighting curve, so they were used as the starting point by NASA. NASA soon discovered they need to add a little bit of blue as well to make the plants healthier. But just using the two wave lengths of light really don't give the plants everything they need. It is like you trying to survive on a diet of beans and chocolate bars.

If you are going to try and do an LED grow you would be better off using just warm white LED lights they give off light that corresponds to the par light curve very well. They are a little short in the blue light part of the spectrum not as bad as a HPS but not as good as a MH. They have very similar strength in the orange to red spectrum like a HPS and should work well to flower for you. It has for me. My next grow will use a bunch more warm light than this one. I am hooked and the low heat created by the LEDs work very well for the area I have to grow in. Even cfls give off to much heat for the closed off area I am growing in.


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## Aurora_Indicas_Dad (Jul 6, 2008)

you'd be better off spendin your money on either a grow light w/ a switchable mh/hps ballast or a str8 hps and if they stretch during veg,just supercrop them.i personally wouldnt flower under anything but a hps,and wouldnt veg under anything but flourescents,cfl's,metal halide,or hps. -peace


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## Rogue (Jul 6, 2008)

Aurora_Indicas_Dad said:
			
		

> you'd be better off spendin your money on either a grow light w/ a switchable mh/hps ballast or a str8 hps and if they stretch during veg,just supercrop them.i personally wouldnt flower under anything but a hps,and wouldnt veg under anything but flourescents, cfl's,metal halide,or hps. -peace



I agree with you 100% unless you are trying to grow in a small area with very little ventilation. HPS will give you a lot more bud for your trouble. But in the area I am growing in a HPS would result in either cooked weed or burnt building. CFLs work as well but still produce more heat than the LEDs. The price is really the big stopper for LEDs right now. The price is dropping quick and the amount of light per LED is also growing quick. It won't be very long a year or two before they are a very viable alternative IMHO.


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## Piperson (Jul 9, 2008)

Yeah, the heat is my problem right now. I grow in a closet that's 22cf in the flowering area. I put a 50cfm exhaust fan in the ceiling. But, its not vented to the outside, only into the ceiling. To vent it to outdoors, I have to put a hole thru concrete wall. And I don't think I have the expertise to do that.

If I could do that, i would probably get an hps, since it supposed to produce the best buds.

Right now I'm using 6 23w cfl's with 1600 lumens  each. And 4, 4ft fl tubes.

The buds have turned out petty good though so far. These are at 7 wks-4 days.


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## Rogue (Jul 9, 2008)

Piperson said:
			
		

> I put a 50cfm exhaust fan in the ceiling. But, its not vented to the outside, only into the ceiling.



You might want to rethink that. I have heard or read somewhere that venting like that can lead to mold developing in the ceiling space in certain climates.


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## 100percent (Jul 10, 2008)

a little info here

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28266


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## Piperson (Jul 11, 2008)

Rogue said:
			
		

> You might want to rethink that. I have heard or read somewhere that venting like that can lead to mold developing in the ceiling space in certain climates.



Yeah, I'll have to watch that. I need to figure out how to vent it outdoors thru the concrete wall.

Ne1 know how to do that? I also need to install an intake in the door. Thanks for the info.


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## Piperson (Jul 11, 2008)

100percent said:
			
		

> a little info here
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28266



Thanks for that info. How many watts is your LED?


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## 100percent (Jul 12, 2008)

the panel of 225 red/blue lights is 13 Watts


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## 100percent (Jul 12, 2008)

here is a representative sample of one on ebay

http://cgi.ebay.com/Hydroponic-Lamp...hash=item180262208262&_trksid=p3286.m14.l1318


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## tukadoodle (Jul 15, 2008)

Piperson said:
			
		

> *High!
> 
> ne1 have any experience **with** or can offer advice  on L.E.D. growlights? Here's a link to one that seems good. And it's low heat. hxxp://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SsSSFw-2wDEJ:cgi.ebay.com/LED-GROW-LIGHT-50-watt-HIGH-POWER-HPS-MH-UFO-PANEL-900_W0QQitemZ160253058540QQihZ006QQcategoryZ42225QQcmdZViewItem+High+Output+50+Watt+LED+Panel&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=4&gl=us&client=firefox-a
> 
> ...


Here are some thoughts from very knowledgeable experts and why they say NO to LEDS:

I. LED lights are dangerous to human eyes because they use LASER Diodes.
2. LED lights do not reveal true plant health and quality. Problems of nutrient deficiency and environmental stress can not be seen under LED lighting.
3. LED lights don't keep insects off of the plants.

Features of our NASA developed light arrays:
1. AgriHouse's safe and not harmful to the human eye
2. AgriHouse's lights show the true color and health of the plant
3. They keep insects off the plants due to a proprietary lens filter.

I hope this helps.


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## Rogue (Jul 15, 2008)

tukadoodle said:
			
		

> Here are some thoughts from very knowledgeable experts and why they say NO to LEDS:
> 
> I. LED lights are dangerous to human eyes because they use LASER Diodes.
> 2. LED lights do not reveal true plant health and quality. Problems of nutrient deficiency and environmental stress can not be seen under LED lighting.
> ...



Nice shill for a shop selling fluorescent lighting. :angrywife::hitchair::confused2:

1. Yes all laser diodes are LEDs but not all LEDs are laser diodes. The difference is intensity and focus of the beam. LEDs are used for lighting in more places than you think.

2. LEDs are available in all frequencies of visible light. If _'Problems of nutrient deficiency and environmental stress can not be seen under LED lighting'_ then they can not be seen under any color of visible light. INVALID statement.

3. I have yet to see any type of light keep bugs off your plants, HPS don't count pieces of the bugs fall on to your plants after they burn to a crisp.


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## tukadoodle (Jul 16, 2008)

Rogue said:
			
		

> Nice shill for a shop selling fluorescent lighting. :angrywife::hitchair::confused2:
> 
> 1. Yes all laser diodes are LEDs but not all LEDs are laser diodes. The difference is intensity and focus of the beam. LEDs are used for lighting in more places than you think.
> 
> ...


 
I recognize you as an expert and really appreciate the reality check. Problem I am having is the cost of a comperable LED setup is almost 3-4 times as expensive (~$500 form agrihouse). Maybe I just start with their package until the bulbsburn up and then replace. I really like the heat of LEDs as I can save alot of energy and cooling but the upfront is too expensive; do you or anyone know the best place to shop for these. :hairpull:


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## Rogue (Jul 16, 2008)

Tukadoodle  that all depends on what you are looking to do. If you are looking to grow a couple plants and want it to be cool and use only a little bit of energy you could get 4 shop lights and put 8 quality cool white bulbs in them to veg and 8 quality warm white to flower and be done with your lighting needs for under $100. Not to mention it would cover double the area the agrihouse 160watt set covers. If space, heat, and energy are not really a problem go with an HPS. You can get a 400watt HPS system complete for about $300 and it will cover an area at least 4 times larger than the agrihouse and give you much healthier plants that produce more. If you are stuck on the idea of using LEDs, I am because I like to live on the edge and explore the unknown LOL, then it depends on how good you are with a soldering iron and knowledge of basic electronics. You can get large high flux LEDs direct from Chinese suppliers through Ebay and build your own or search for warm white LED floodlights on google if your more likely to burn down your house then solder anything effectivly. 

I just noticed Agrihouse changed their disclaimer about LEDs today after my posting here, so that begs the question. 

How long have you worked for Agrihouse tukadoodle? :confused2:


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## Piperson (Jul 17, 2008)

Thanks Rogue and 100% and AlianBait for all the info and every1 else who contributed to this thead. 

It's very interesting because of the less heat and operating costs. But, I think for now I'm going to stick with cfls and flo tubes.


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## tukadoodle (Jul 18, 2008)

Rogue said:
			
		

> Tukadoodle  that all depends on what you are looking to do. If you are looking to grow a couple plants and want it to be cool and use only a little bit of energy you could get 4 shop lights and put 8 quality cool white bulbs in them to veg and 8 quality warm white to flower and be done with your lighting needs for under $100. Not to mention it would cover double the area the agrihouse 160watt set covers. If space, heat, and energy are not really a problem go with an HPS. You can get a 400watt HPS system complete for about $300 and it will cover an area at least 4 times larger than the agrihouse and give you much healthier plants that produce more. If you are stuck on the idea of using LEDs, I am because I like to live on the edge and explore the unknown LOL, then it depends on how good you are with a soldering iron and knowledge of basic electronics. You can get large high flux LEDs direct from Chinese suppliers through Ebay and build your own or search for warm white LED floodlights on google if your more likely to burn down your house then solder anything effectivly.
> 
> I just noticed Agrihouse changed their disclaimer about LEDs today after my posting here, so that begs the question.
> 
> How long have you worked for Agrihouse tukadoodle? :confused2:


Hey Rogue I am very curious what they changed as I have not kept up on their website....which I think needs serious work. I am curious what they changed as maybe they are not up on lighting tech for MJ...? It is very HIGH compliment to you and all to make a company change their website/position!


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## tukadoodle (Jul 18, 2008)

Rogue said:
			
		

> Tukadoodle  that all depends on what you are looking to do. If you are looking to grow a couple plants and want it to be cool and use only a little bit of energy you could get 4 shop lights and put 8 quality cool white bulbs in them to veg and 8 quality warm white to flower and be done with your lighting needs for under $100. Not to mention it would cover double the area the agrihouse 160watt set covers. If space, heat, and energy are not really a problem go with an HPS. You can get a 400watt HPS system complete for about $300 and it will cover an area at least 4 times larger than the agrihouse and give you much healthier plants that produce more. If you are stuck on the idea of using LEDs, I am because I like to live on the edge and explore the unknown LOL, then it depends on how good you are with a soldering iron and knowledge of basic electronics. You can get large high flux LEDs direct from Chinese suppliers through Ebay and build your own or search for warm white LED floodlights on google if your more likely to burn down your house then solder anything effectivly.
> 
> I just noticed Agrihouse changed their disclaimer about LEDs today after my posting here, so that begs the question.
> 
> How long have you worked for Agrihouse tukadoodle? :confused2:


I don't work for Agrihouse and am just a new MMJ customer for what I believe is the best and most cost/time effective system. I respect their opinons in Aero tech as they did develop it. They did it for NASA and focus mainly on Vegtables etc. They also sell mega systems to nurseries and have a huge one in CO. However, I am interested in working in this area and maybe Agrihouse. With Climate change and MMJ I see it as a huge boom opportunity and especially as more states adopt MMJ. And yes all of your input is helping me decide. But let me ask everyone a question. Do you know of any pre-packeaged turnkey systems or can one build a comperable system at a cost of $8.33 per plant for 120 plants? I am curious because I am physically unable to build my own, but still think it ends up being the best and most cost effective, high yielding system for the COGS(Cost of Goods) and labor.

 Our time is worth money (even unemployed) and we need to add the hours ( I use an average hourly rate of doing another job or a job in the past) into the price. So this is an open challenge to name that tune as I truely want the best most cost effective system. I can easily cancel my order with Agrihouse as I was going to do with their lights. I am probably holding back on LED's as my room is 12X10 in a colder basement (~60-75 degrees) that should balance out some of the heat to some degree? I am also too new to deal with  this emerging technology short term. Anybody use a scrubber to vent the heat into their HVAC system of the house?...I guess it would still  smell up the housea bit? As always, I highly value and appreciate the opinions of you all more than any other!


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