# Leaves curling on clones



## DonJones

My clones done in black gold using Hick's cloning sticky have the leave starting to curl up and inward along the sides of the leaves versus the tips curling.  What does this mean and what do I need to do about it?

Could this be a sign that they are rooted even though the roots aren't showing through the holes in the bottom of the cups?  

Do they need feeding with a weak nute solution or with a foliar spray or is it time to transplant them?

I was hoping to hold off a couple of days until I could get my waterfarm up and running to try growing one of them in it, but I may have to go ahead and grow them in black gold and wait for the next set of clones to use the waterfarm.

Any advice will be appreciated.  They are supposedly MTF (Matenuska [sic] Thunder F**k) taken from a mother that was just going into flowering room.  They were cloned approximately 2 weeks ago using Hick's tutorial for a guide. and have been kept moist by letting the black gold stand in PHed water.  Oh, they were in a room with a temperature in the mid to high 60fs until day before yesterday when I moved them into the veg room where it is warmer.

Please don't open the argument over whether or not true MTFs even exist.  That is a totally different topic.

I need to get an answer soon so I can take care of the situation.

*Thanks for the help guys.*


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## chris1974

Hmmmmmmm Im gona take a peek in the sick plant section and see if I can help ya out man !


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## DonJones

Thanks chris1974.  I don't think they are sick because they are nice and green, actually a little darker than the picture show and they seem to be otherwise healthy but I don't know.  I don't think they need water because the black gold is moist all the way to the top and they aren't drooping like my other plants do when they are out of water.

*A word of advice to anyone else thinking about cloning in soil -- use Hick's later recommendation to use straight peralite instead of any kind of soil because you can actually remove the clone from the peralite and replace it if the roots aren't to your satisfaction.*If I had done that then I could have checked the root structure before crying out for help if it just means that they need feeding because they are rooted and starting to grow and use nutes.


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## chris1974

I looked arround a bit and I am not sure but if the soil stays to wet the roots 
wont devepe very strong causing the plants not to get enough of the nutrients needed to stay heathy ?  Are you letting the soil dry enough before watering again ?


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## DonJones

Chris1974,

I'm rooting clones -- not growing rooted plants.  You can't let the medium dry out if you want them to root.

I know that you need to dry the soil out when you are growing, in fact personally I like to let them dry out enough that they just begin to droop before watering/feeding them again.  That is going to be the biggest challenge for me when I switch to hydro is getting used to the roots being in soluton all the time.

Actually, it is more that in soil if you don't dry it out and then remoisten it, you have a hard time in getting oxygen down to the roots and if they don't get oxygen, then they die.  IF you can keep the moisture and medium oxygenated, then they grow just fine with wet roots.  Otherwise hydro systems would NOT work.  That is why ALL hydros have some kind of aeration/oxygenation system built into them.

But that is a different topic entirely, I just need to know what is happening with my clones so I know how to counter it,either by feeding them or by transpalnting them into a larger container and then feeding them.


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## chris1974

Oh I got ya, I appoagize man.... I was thinking they had aready rooted and were in soil   Im just cloning right the first time as we speak, so im not that knowedgable yet ?  Im sure the right person will chime in soon..... good luck Don


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## dman1234

this is why i use jiffy pucks 

you can see the roots sooner 

JMO


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## Budders Keeper

> I moved them into the veg room where it is warmer.


Hello DJ, how much warmer? I am not familiar with black gold but if it is enriched or very good soil they won't need nutes yet. At 2 weeks they could be just starting to root...especially with 60's temps till a couple days ago. If I had to guess knowing what you've said..I would say 1) just a wierd thing, watch it close for further signs or 2) may be a slight reaction to temp increase since they went from approx 12 days @ 60's to "veg room where it is warmer". Green luck and keep us posted!  BK


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## DonJones

Thanks everyone.  

Chris1974 -- man we all read some thing into posts all the time.  I know I do it as much if not more than most, so no harm and I apologize for my sarcasm.  My only excuse and its not a very good one is that I'm really concerned because these are the best 2 clones I've got of my best strain and I haven't had any luck for the last few attempts.

Budders Keeper,

It averages around the mid to high 70fs with light cycle temps around 80f.  I guess I can't do anything more than just watch them because I can't change anything until I decide to feed them.  The black gold isn't real high in  nutes, but like you said they shouldn't need much for awhile.  I guess I might try hitting them with a little weak foliar spray just before lights out unless so one with a better idea posts first.

Thanks again.


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## chris1974

No worries man   just trying to lend a helping hand, Im still learning and taking it all in !  have a good evening Mr. Jones


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## 4u2sm0ke

Thanks  for  shareing  with  us *DonJones*..:48:  They  look  okay  but  may  ahve  stressed  a  bit  with  the  cooler  temps....Have  ya  tried  useing  a  propagation mat under  the  cups?  this  will  keep  soil  at  proper  temps  and  premote  root  growth...just  my  thaughts..take  care and  be safe


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## DonJones

4u2sm0ke,

That is an excellent idea and one that I'm looking at sometime soon.  In the meantime I will just be more careful of where I put the clones while they are rooting.  I can keep them in one of the grow rooms for now, but often my grow room is full.  I set up an area just for clones/rootlings but I can see now that except in the summer I'm going to have to provide more heat.  I've thrown a couple of ideas around of using either heat lamp(s) or normal incandescent light either in the chamber or directly under it but I would have to keep an eye on it to keep it from over heating.

The chamber is 20" deep x 33" wide x 22" high.  It currently has a 2 tube 24" T5 light on the ceiling.  Here is a picture of it like it is now.  I also use the top of it for a light work area or a place to sit things while I open the door to the grow room.  I could enclose it with plywood, sheetrock or what ever and use a thermostat to control what ever heat source I use, I guess. 

Or I could just buy a propagation mat. 

Any suggestions.

Thanks.


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## DonJones

*Besides seeing the roots growing out of the holes, how will I know when they are rooted and needing feeding?*

I think next time I will use clear soda bottles with the tops cut off of them si I can see what is happening as well as using just peralite for a medium so that I can float it out and check the roots and put them back if they need more time.  Also, that way I can float the peralite off of the clone and put the clone into the waterfarm medium easier.


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## ozzydiodude

Don just keep them moist and warm those clones are most likely rooted you should see the stem start thicken and the leaves growing. Look at some that I have in "super simple cloning" thread


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## DonJones

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> Don just keep them moist and warm those clones are most likely rooted you should see the stem start thicken and the leaves growing. Look at some that I have in "super simple cloning" thread



Thanks Ozzydiodude.  I was hoping they were okay.  I have water standing in the bottom of the try about 1/4" deep so the black gold shouldn't dry out.


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## Budders Keeper

> Or I could just buy a propagation mat.
> 
> Any suggestions.


My suggestion on this is also get the temp controller for the mat, or at least a timer. If you just leave it on it will cook the plants. I use one and it increased my cloning success by 50%. Cool little box you got there! BK


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## ozzydiodude

Hey Don I was rereading your thread and 1 thing I do different is that I do not keep the clones setting in water. I wet down the soil good before I take clone. Then just water lightly ever 2 or 3 days. You  can gently slide the clone dirt and all out of the cup when they are a little dry and look it see if the roots are forming. I will do this at the 10 day mark from taking. But usually just wait til the clones start growing. They will look simular to your clones first then start growing this is when I tranplant usually between 14 and 21 days

Green Mojo for a little extra help


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## Tact

I found your post Don, your right your grow area is very similar to where I am looking to grow in my basement. I appreciate your guidance and help, I plan on getting some Mylar and doing what you did with your mirrors around the grow area. I can't wait to get an electrician out to my place and get piece of mind with my electrical work, then get started. Today im going to go buy the firewall, but not install it yet, so the electrician is not wondering why I have firewall nailed to my ceiling in the same are I am asking him to put a potential sub-panel. Then I need to start doing research on soil, nutes, order my light etc. I was thinking about getting a sheet of galvanized metal, and forming it to the dimensions of my basement window, cut a hole in it for duct work (exhaust) and shut my window as far as possible while allowing the duct work to dump through the screen, not sure if I will have to seal around anything around the metal sheet I put in the window (in between the sliding glass and the screen) with a non-silicone epoxy, so I can remove it easier when/if I need to. I like that box-fan in the door, good idea actually if you ask me! It has been POURING rain here the last few days and those cracks in my basement walls are glistening with ground water like you said, luckily I have a fairly large dehumidifier and I am going to start running that 24/7 for the time being until I can get these cracks addressed.

:ccc:


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## DonJones

Tact,

I use a piece of plywood that just slips inside of the tracks for the slider, then use a jig/saber saw or a router to cut the hole.  I make the plywood the same height as the slider portion so that you can just slip it in top first and then let it down into the bottom track just like the window does.  
The plywood is a lot better at keeping heat from passing through it that sheet metal.  To seal around the plywood itself you can either apply a good tape, like Gorilla or even foil or I prefer to get the right size weather striping foam and apply it to the edges of the plywood to make up for any irregularities in the cuts.  When you get ready to do it, I can show you a simple way to fit round tubing to a hole in a flat surface.  It is really simple and is what the heating/ac people use to connect a round duct to the side of a flat duct.

Just cut a series of lengthwise cuts about 1/2 longer than the thickness of the flat surface about 1/2" to 3/4" apart around the end of the pipe.  When you get through you will have piece of pipe ending in a series of tabs that you can easily bend with pliers. Bend every OTHER tab out to a 90 degree angle.  Slide the remaining tabs through the hole until the bent ones bottom on the flat surface.  Then put a few pop rivets or screws through the bent tabs and the flat piece.  then being careful NOT to push the pipe back through the hole, bend the remaining straight tabs outward against the flat piece.  Again secure a few of the tabs with either pop rivets or screw.  this leaves you with a very strong jiont considering the light weight of the materials involved that you can easily seal with duct tape or caulking.

If anyone wants me to, I try to make up a sample with pictures and post them.  This is an easy way to install and inline duct fan through the wall, or to make a flange to attach to the wall.


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## Hick

DonJones said:
			
		

> Thanks chris1974.  I don't think they are sick because they are nice and green, actually a little darker than the picture show and they seem to be otherwise healthy but I don't know.  I don't think they need water because the black gold is moist all the way to the top and they aren't drooping like my other plants do when they are out of water.
> 
> *A word of advice to anyone else thinking about cloning in soil -- use Hick's later recommendation to use straight peralite instead of any kind of soil because you can actually remove the clone from the peralite and replace it if the roots aren't to your satisfaction.*If I had done that then I could have checked the root structure before crying out for help if it just means that they need feeding because they are rooted and starting to grow and use nutes.



About the only way to tell when they are rooted in that soil, is 'new growth'.  IMO... the soil still needs to dry somewhat, after a week or so anyway. Black gold will provide plenty of nutes well past rooting.  .."Patience"... is your biggest asset now..


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