# Learning Ebb and Flow



## SMOK3R (Sep 5, 2009)

So I woke up today and decided its time to go ebb and flow... I've actually been thinking about trying it out for quite a while, but have been putting it off.  I've done DWC and worked on some aeroflo systems, but have zero experience with e&f... which is why I have been putting it off for a while 

Can anyone point me in the direction of some good e&f threads around here?

I guess my main questions are about flood schedules and feeding schedules...  

How often and for how long?  
Do you change it up during different stages of flowering?
Will I need to top flush at all when I change the res?
Anything I will need to do to make sure my roots don't clog the screen aside from using the screen?  
Any other tips from people with experience with e&f would be greatly appreciated.

Oh ya... here's what I picked up:

36"x36"x7" tray (plus fittings, extension, and Screens... Botanicare) 
40 Gal Res with lid
EcoPlus 396 pump
9 - 6"x6"x6" rockwool cubes
50 liter bag of hydrotron
Oracle Digital timer

... Hopefully I didn't forget anything :doh:

It will be set up under a 600W (air cooled) hps

Got another month till I can clear out the room and set this up so I have plenty of time to do my homework.  

Thanks in advance


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## Smokey Mcpotster (Sep 6, 2009)

smok3er. Use the search function at the top of the page. Quite a few do ebb and flow. If you do some reading to get the basics down, I am sure ppl can help with anything you don't understand. Good luck. Learn it well so you can teach me in six months lol.


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## smokingjoe (Sep 6, 2009)

what is the resolution of that oracle timer of yours?

Many run 15 minutes every two hours, but is generally due the limitations of their timer.  There is no significant benefit to flooding during dark period.  

You can get it down to as little as 2 minutes every 2 hours if your timer allows; especially if you are germinating in rockwool cubes.

Otherwise I think you have everything you need.

Ebb & Flow IMHO is the simplest method of growing indoors.


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

smokingjoe said:
			
		

> what is the resolution of that oracle timer of yours?
> 
> Many run 15 minutes every two hours, but is generally due the limitations of their timer.  There is no significant benefit to flooding during dark period.
> 
> ...


2 min every 2 hours is way too much brother...  6" cubes hold a lot of water.

I have been a hydro guy for a long time and get it... just have a few questions about watering/nutrient build up.  I was only asking for links above so I didnt have to bug people.  No worries man I will figure it out if I cant get any definitive answers.

2 min every 2 hours would mean total saturation all day.  That's not the answer I was planning on hearing.  I have seen many grows that didn't need that sort of schedule.  That sounds tedious at best.


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## StoneyBud (Sep 6, 2009)

SMOK3R said:
			
		

> 2 min every 2 hours is way too much brother... 6" cubes hold a lot of water.
> 
> I have been a hydro guy for a long time and get it... just have a few questions about watering/nutrient build up. I was only asking for links above so I didn't have to bug people. No worries man I will figure it out if I cant get any definitive answers.
> 
> 2 min every 2 hours would mean total saturation all day. That's not the answer I was planning on hearing. I have seen many grows that didn't need that sort of schedule. That sounds tedious at best.


 
I've been using Ebb and Flow for a long, long time. Ask your questions here in your thread. That's how this place works!

As far as timing; After trying about every configuration of timing that can be done, I've settled on One hour on, Two hours off, 24/7.

It works great.

I've used the GH 3 part Flora Series nutrients for years. I can vouch for them in an ebb and flow system.

What other questions?


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## StoneyBud (Sep 6, 2009)

1. How often and for how long? 
2. Do you change it up during different stages of flowering?
3. Will I need to top flush at all when I change the res?
4. Anything I will need to do to make sure my roots don't clog the screen aside from using the screen?

*****
First, let me clear up one thing you have that is already off on the wrong track.

Save those huge 6" rockwool cubes for something else. They're too large for your system.

Rockwool should ALWAYS be buried in the hydroton so that the TOP of the cube is a MINIMUM of two inches below the top of the Hydroton.

The 1.5" inch rockwool is perfect. Grow your seedlings (seeds or clones) in them until the roots are just starting to be visible on the outside of the rockwool.

Then, plant them so that the top of the 1.5" cube is TWO inches below the surface of the hydroton, but ALSO, the top of the rockwool should be level with the top of your overflow return tube/line.

If your tray is a feed and drain from the bottom, then put the rooted cubes into the hydroton so that the TOP of the 1.5" cube is level with the TOP of the overflow tube.

The entire tray is filled with the hydroton. Right to the top. It should be filled at LEAST two inches ABOVE the TOP of your overflow tube.

Now for the questions you've asked.


1. Asked and answered.

2. I never dump my reservoir until the crop is finished. It's a waste of money. The hydro stores and rookies will all tell you to. They hydro stores sell the stuff and the rookies just don't know any better.

Your reservoir should be no larger than 500% of the total fill volume of your system. When your entire tray and all lines are full, measure how much that is. Your reservoir should NEVER be larger than 500% of that.

Why? Because as you top it off each night or every other night with freshly made nutrient solution, you will be adding enough to completely change out the volume within a MAXIMUM of 15 days. That means that the total volume of your reservoir has been changed out within each 15 days, due to natural attrition. That makes wasting nutrients unnecessary.

3. Flushing isn't necessary. See number two above.

4. Try not to plant a seedling right next to a overflow screen. If you keep them about 4-6 inches from the screen, you shouldn't get any blockages.


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> I've been using Ebb and Flow for a long, long time. Ask your questions here in your thread. That's how this place works!
> 
> As far as timing; After trying about every configuration of timing that can be done, I've settled on One hour on, Two hours off, 24/7.
> 
> ...



Wow brother that rules... I use GH 3pt + liquid Kool Bloom and GH Bud Candy.... what should I expect from this tray?  Do you use Hydrogen Peroxide in your mix?  Do I need to flush this res out during normal feeding schedules?  I usually dont flush because its a total waste of energy... do you?


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> 1. How often and for how long?
> 2. Do you change it up during different stages of flowering?
> 3. Will I need to top flush at all when I change the res?
> 4. Anything I will need to do to make sure my roots don't clog the screen aside from using the screen?
> ...



just saw this... time to read:holysheep:


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## StoneyBud (Sep 6, 2009)

SMOK3R said:
			
		

> Wow brother that rules... I use GH 3pt + liquid Kool Bloom and GH Bud Candy.... what should I expect from this tray? Do you use Hydrogen Peroxide in your mix? Do I need to flush this res out during normal feeding schedules? I usually dont flush because its a total waste of energy... do you?


No, I don't use Hydrogen Peroxide at all. I pour it on my cuts over the bathroom sink. hehe

Post whatever questions you have after reading my last post.


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

Using 6x6x6 cubes is only natural.... I start with small cubes and add to it...Six plants per patient is the nature of the SoCa rules in my COUNTY so I follow them.  I get 10 seeds from each bank and pick my fav for all of my other grows.  No big deal to me brother...

6" cubes are good for a guy like me.  They hold water, act as an anchor and are buoyant.  This isnt the proper way for most people but it works for us.  I agree with your set up but dont have the means to keep it legal so I just go for larger plants.  I am almost sure that these plants need no more than 1-2 real waterings per day given their stature.  Can someone let me know what their schedule is?  

Thanks again to those who contributed!


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> Post whatever questions you have after reading my last post.



WOW Stoney!  thanks for all the help... I owe you some Colas!  Much appreciated


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## JBonez (Sep 6, 2009)

here is my E&F setup, ive never had anything but great results, even my first time.


ps, stay away from rockwool as you medium of choice for ebb and flow, you would only be allowed a single flood cycle in rockwool, while hydroton can usually handle between 3-5 flood cycles in a photoperiod.

i will never deviate from this style of growing, period.


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## StoneyBud (Sep 6, 2009)

JBonez said:
			
		

> here is my E&F setup, ive never had anything but great results, even my first time.
> 
> 
> ps, stay away from rockwool as you medium of choice for ebb and flow, you would only be allowed a single flood cycle in rockwool, while hydroton can usually handle between 3-5 flood cycles in a photoperiod.
> ...


When I use the 1.5" rockwool, it's for no other reason than giving the clone or seedling something to put it's initial roots into. After only a very short time, the roots reach the outside of the little one and a half inch cube and then attach themselves to the hydroton.

Rockwool retains WAY too much water to use as a media for ebb and flow.

Lava or hydroton are the absolute best there is for an ebb and flow system.


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## JBonez (Sep 6, 2009)

same here, small cubes for seedlings to pop from or clones to root in, after that, hydroton only.

we are on the same page stoney.


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## OGKushman (Sep 6, 2009)

I use 6x6 rockwool, expansion slabs, and water 2 times a day. Love it!


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## TURKEYNECK (Sep 6, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> When I use the 1.5" rockwool, it's for no other reason than giving the clone or seedling something to put it's initial roots into. After only a very short time, the roots reach the outside of the little one and a half inch cube and then attach themselves to the hydroton.
> 
> Rockwool retains WAY too much water to use as a media for ebb and flow.
> 
> Lava or hydroton are the absolute best there is for an ebb and flow system.


 
I agree.. maybe cause I learned from stoney but I went against his advice on my first e&f trial (in my sig) and used 4x4x4 rockwool.. it worked okay but  I have since switched to something similar to what Jbones posted.. I use pots of hydroton with rooted cuts in plugs because it enables you to move your plants around and it makes for ALOT easier cleanup IMO. Goodluck!


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## TURKEYNECK (Sep 6, 2009)

oh yeah and just a heads up.. 50l of hydroton will probably not be enough for that tray unless you use containers..


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

Ya what is wrong with some 6x6 cubes?  I plan on filling the tub with hydrotron...  Why not use something that can hold a little water?


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

TURKEYNECK said:
			
		

> oh yeah and just a heads up.. 50l of hydroton will probably not be enough for that tray unless you use containers..



I have 6x6 cubes for containers I guess.... no biggie if I have to grab more, but I was thinking the same thing.  

When "put these little ladys in the system" day comes I can always grab more...  I have a bunch that I use for my buckets so I will just fill em out with that if I can.

Do you guys ever have problems with your roots clogging up the drain line?  My DWC girls make some huge roots... I've always worried about my lines getting clogged 

All the help is much appreciated... thank you all


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

JBonez said:
			
		

> here is my E&F setup, ive never had anything but great results, even my first time.
> 
> 
> ps, stay away from rockwool as you medium of choice for ebb and flow, you would only be allowed a single flood cycle in rockwool, while hydroton can usually handle between 3-5 flood cycles in a photoperiod.
> ...



Nice system brother... why did you tape that fan up like that?


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## OGKushman (Sep 6, 2009)

Im guessing so the air does not blow directly on the big plants

:watchplant:


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## SMOK3R (Sep 6, 2009)

"Man has the right to make a fool of himself when he is not on his own hunting grounds."

Haha love it


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## OGKushman (Sep 6, 2009)

It reminds me to do everything I want to do...when no one is looking. :rofl:

Thanks bro :bong:


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## smokingjoe (Sep 7, 2009)

SMOK3R said:
			
		

> 2 min every 2 hours is way too much brother... 6" cubes hold a lot of water.
> 
> I have been a hydro guy for a long time and get it... just have a few questions about watering/nutrient build up. I was only asking for links above so I didnt have to bug people. No worries man I will figure it out if I cant get any definitive answers.
> 
> 2 min every 2 hours would mean total saturation all day. That's not the answer I was planning on hearing. I have seen many grows that didn't need that sort of schedule. That sounds tedious at best.


 
I didn't see any mention of rockwool cubes, but I was only suggesting a range.  

Personally I flood 15mins every 2 hours, have done with every grow with outstanding results; but I do feel it is too long only dictate with the resolution of cheap timers.


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## JBonez (Sep 7, 2009)

the best possible situation in the rootzone is maximum uptake.

Hydroton has "THE" best air/solution ratio of any medium. 

Ill put it like this. The more you can get solution to your nutes without overwatering, the better growth will be.

This is why DWC fails in my book, because if your temps go up slightly, dissolved oxygen goes down, bad for business.

This is where aeroponics reigns supreme, but this is medium-less so to speak, as the roots dangle free usually!!


RW, holds a good mix, but is a little on the moist side for me, not to mention, the ph of rockwool is 8.3 i believe and raises ph of rootzone, i counter ph when i water rockwool plugs to offset this.


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