# Both plant look very different



## choxie (Apr 27, 2022)

So I got both seeds from Greenpoint purple punch s1. They're sprouted 2 months apart. The earlier one sat outside in the cold and basically didn't grow for a month. When I got a tent a month later then I started the second seed and then they were eventually transplanted into 3 gallon fabric pots for a bit then into octopots.  Is this weird that they're this different or did I possible get different seeds?

One plant has very small dark green purple leaves with heavy frosting and the buds are almost non existent at week 7 flower
The other has dense buds but is light green with some yellowing. (This is the first plant sprouted)
Trichromes are both clear currently and they're fed the same schedule of veg + bloom and flower fuel at 1200 ppm at a pH of average 6.2 ish. 


Do you think there's any user error or just that's the genetics of the seed? The frosty one has some much trichs but barely any bud (mostly small leaves) and the other has dense buds but isn't really too frosty.


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## ness (Apr 28, 2022)

Hello choxie that 2nd plant is nice and frosty.  Welcome to marijuana passion.  Come and visit Island Of Misfits.  Happy growing.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 28, 2022)

They sure look like different strains to me, but it wouldn't surprise me if it was the different growing conditions.


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## bigsur51 (Apr 28, 2022)

2 different flavors

in all fairness to the pollen chuckers , it could be seeds from the same source but expressing different pheno types


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 28, 2022)

My two dosidos look totally different one tall and just bushing out, one shorter and bushy. Looks like two different strains but I had a lot of trouble getting these dosidos to pop in fact took 8 seeds to get two plants. ILGM offered to replace the Seeds. I don’t want seeds from that lot again for sure. Way to frustrating


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 28, 2022)

Greenpoints description says you will see different phenotypes. They may take different times to mature so the plant with fewer buds(they both look to have a fair amount of buds to me), will likely catch up. Breeders frequently oversell the flower time. Greenpoint states 7-8 weeks of flower are possible. Possible not definite. Look at it this way, you will have a variety of bud to smoke. They will probably give different buzzes so you are lucky in that respect.


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 28, 2022)

One looks like it is a granddaddy purple and the other like a Larry OG. Genetics are an interesting, complex science where some ‘oops’ wind up as pond scum and others as human(in some cases they are one and the same). It is debatable which ‘oops’ is better…


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 28, 2022)

I am convinced that every plant even those clones taken from the same mother had her own personality. I have two clones in flower that should be twins from the same mother plant but are growing and even smelling totally different. One plant healthy looking stacked with slight smell and the other with ugly crispy leaves very sticky buds and smells kinda like a tire store to me I know that sounds weird… I’m expecting the sticky one to be ready first but who knows


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## bigsur51 (Apr 28, 2022)

pollen chuckers make poly-hybrids that have many expressions , even some recessive traits will pop up

the poly-hybrids to say the least are a far cry from lines that have been worked to an F5 generation , stabilized strandivars


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 28, 2022)

bigsur51 said:


> pollen chuckers make poly-hybrids that have many expressions , even some recessive traits will pop up
> 
> the poly-hybrids to say the least are a far cry from lines that have been worked to an F5 generation , stabilized strandivars



These are supposed to be s1’s but I suppose it may depend on the stability of the f1(or whatever f integer the parents of the s1’s are). Not every breeder has the attention to detail that you do.


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 28, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> I am convinced that every plant even those clones taken from the same mother had her own personality. I have two clones in flower that should be twins from the same mother plant but are growing and even smelling totally different. One plant healthy looking stacked with slight smell and the other with ugly crispy leaves very sticky buds and smells kinda like a tire store to me I know that sounds weird… I’m expecting the sticky one to be ready first but who knows


Clones expressing differences is pretty rare if all things are equal(light, grow medium, nutrients, environment). S1’s are supposed to be seeds from self pollinated plants(thanks to @OGKushman for making me research f and s genetic definitions) so they are more likely to give seeds that have different phenotypes mixed in(from what I have read, not from experience).


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## OGKushman (Apr 28, 2022)

F1 and F2 can be unpredictable. Any traits from the grandparents or parents appear to be expressed.

 My first self pollinated seeds (s1) still showed slightly different phenotypes but the range of expression was drastically narrowed. Basically - I could toss every nug from s1 breeding and on into the same container and not even a seasoned connoisseur would be able to tell any noticeable difference in appearance. In a blind test, flavor is so identical that no one has been able to tell them apart. 

But - my s1’s still show slightly different traits. It’s when I self pollinated a plant that was self pollinated to begin with from seed (s2+) did the inbreeding create an apparently identically genetic copy of itself. 

The purple stem leaves I posted below are s1, the looong stem ones are also s1 from the same breeding but different seeds.  Again, the buds are identical as far as smell look and flavor. The only apparent difference is stretch and a yield. 

It’s been a lot of fun playing with Mendelian pea plant genetic theory and attempting to apply it to my own plant breeding. I’m sure I’ve miscalculated something, I’m not a geneticist but I’m learning. There is an obvious genetic fight for dominance in my OG as far as leaf, stem, and internodal stretch is concerned. 

I’m still testing (flowering) to verify the s2 with stretch is a 100% stable female and consistently yields more. It’s looking that way which is exciting. 

If your “stabilized female” seeds show huge variations like purple leaves with skunk stink and dense frosty nugs, and some seeds with green fluffy nugs and no frost that taste fruity, then find a new seed source. They are lying and selling F1/F2 labeled as something else. 

Breeding and flowering/testing to S2 and beyond takes years. And I wouldn’t give a single one away as a freebie in an order if I had worked that hard to stabilize…something to think about.


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## bigsur51 (Apr 28, 2022)

OGKushman said:


> F1 and F2 can be unpredictable. Any traits from the grandparents or parents appear to be expressed.
> 
> My first self pollinated seeds (s1) still showed slightly different phenotypes but the range of expression was drastically narrowed. Basically - I could toss every nug from s1 breeding and on into the same container and not even a seasoned connoisseur would be able to tell any noticeable difference in appearance. In a blind test, flavor is so identical that no one has been able to tell them apart.
> 
> ...




what do you use for reversing your female plants?


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## bigsur51 (Apr 28, 2022)

good conversation peoples


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 28, 2022)

bigsur51 said:


> what do you use for reversing your female plants?


Gender reassignment surgery…


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## OGKushman (Apr 28, 2022)

bigsur51 said:


> what do you use for reversing your female plants?


Apocalyptic environmental conditioning 

Be angry at her. Let her veg 24/0 then switch to 13/11 on a timer for 5 days then maybe 18/9 for some 27 hour days (manual light tripping) throw her back into 13/11 for a week before 10/14 lighting. 

Play with it. You’ll convince the plant the end is here.


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## WeedHopper (Apr 28, 2022)

You cruel bastard. Thats just mean.


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## choxie (Apr 28, 2022)

Wow that's a good amount of info.

I never really thought of it more or less showing more of one parent than the other. I was just thinking that the light green one was dying since the other was so much darker and I guess healthier looking (also because its way more frosty)

Also thank you for the info about polys. I never really read into that. I thought S1 meant they'd be more or less all the same.


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## Hippie420 (Apr 28, 2022)

So, you're forcing them to hermie?


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## WeedHopper (Apr 28, 2022)

I always thought that seeds from a hermie just made more hermies.


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## OGKushman (Apr 28, 2022)

S1 should in theory be the same genetic information but there is still clearly a fight for dominance of the stretch gene in my first s1. I selfed a stretchy one and the seeds so far have all been identical and show the same stretch trait. So either I’ve jumped ahead from f2 to s2 or something else is going on I don’t yet understand. I believed the original seed planted was a f2 crossed from 2 near identical plants, but that is impossible to determine. ——>so here lies my only unknown and that’s a big what if.

Also, this has little to do with sex. Sex would be a trait. As far as I can tell all females carry the gene to make male parts. Which makes sense as even a strong dominant female gene has an alternate recessive corresponding gene right? So you would never be able to get to 0%Y and 100%X with respect to male/female.

Funny story I remember male is XY and female is XX because of Tim Allen. Males have the Y gene so “Y do I have to deal with this (female B S).”


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## OGKushman (Apr 28, 2022)

Hippie420 said:


> So, you're forcing them to hermie?


I wouldn’t call it a hermaphrodite. I’m forcing a female to express a few male flowers with what would normally be impossible under natural conditions. It’s taken the better part of a decade to get this strain to give me just a few opportunities at this. 

A herm, for me, is a plant that under normal budding conditions expresses both male and female. These are a big no no. 

The Og flowers I’ve been able to attain with the end of times light schedule still must be manually plucked when trimming, forced open with a brush in a pill container at the next cycle, and painted on the buds. This last round I attempted to do it again and like so many other times it does not appear any of the pollen was fertile.


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## bigsur51 (Apr 28, 2022)

OGKushman said:


> Apocalyptic environmental conditioning
> 
> Be angry at her. Let her veg 24/0 then switch to 13/11 on a timer for 5 days then maybe 18/9 for some 27 hour days (manual light tripping) throw her back into 13/11 for a week before 10/14 lighting.
> 
> Play with it. You’ll convince the plant the end is here.






AEC Tec!

bitchin’!


I thought maybe you used gibberllic acid or colloidal silver


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 28, 2022)

I found that FFCHIMT(Fecking Feline Claw Holes In My Tent) tech worked pretty well at getting my plants to throw male flowers. I kept some seeds but I don’t trust them…


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## OGKushman (Apr 28, 2022)

oldfogey8 said:


> I found that FFCHIMT(Fecking Feline Claw Holes In My Tent) tech worked pretty well at getting my plants to throw male flowers. I kept some seeds but I don’t trust them…


I often leave my flower room doors open, left it open 4” for a week while on vacation. Light gets in, but it’s so hard to get this Og to give a flower. It’s very very female. There are definitely varying degrees of male and female in cannabis plants.


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 28, 2022)

oldfogey8 said:


> Clones expressing differences is pretty rare if all things are equal(light, grow medium, nutrients, environment). S1’s are supposed to be seeds from self pollinated plants(thanks to @OGKushman for making me research f and s genetic definitions) so they are more likely to give seeds that have different phenotypes mixed in(from what I have read, not from experience).


The only difference is one plant, the sticky one is one I manifold (main lined) as an experiment after the clone was unruly. Other than that they were treated equally with food water light and time in the tent. The ugly sticky one has crispy leaves around the bud sites now. checked the ph runoff last week it was 5.8 (I was expecting it to be high for some reason) letting Ms ugly hang out trichomes are heavy on both plants. We shall see I guess but wish this ugly girl looked a bit greener.


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## OGKushman (Apr 28, 2022)

bigsur51 said:


> AEC Tec!
> 
> bitchin’!
> 
> ...


Long time ago I left my lights at 12.5 on and 11.5 off for a whole cycle by accident and discovered this is a magic photo period to make cannabis plants do some whacko stuff.


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 28, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> The only difference is one plant, the sticky one is one I manifold (main lined) as an experiment after the clone was unruly. Other than that they were treated equally with food water light and time in the tent. The ugly sticky one has crispy leaves around the bud sites now. checked the ph runoff last week it was 5.8 (I was expecting it to be high for some reason) letting Ms ugly hang out trichomes are heavy on both plants. We shall see I guess but wish this ugly girl looked a bit greener.


I hope the ugly duckling turns into a swan for you when she is chopped, dried and cured…


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## DavidfromMichigan (Apr 28, 2022)

choxie said:


> So I got both seeds from Greenpoint purple punch s1. They're sprouted 2 months apart. The earlier one sat outside in the cold and basically didn't grow for a month. When I got a tent a month later then I started the second seed and then they were eventually transplanted into 3 gallon fabric pots for a bit then into octopots.  Is this weird that they're this different or did I possible get different seeds?
> 
> One plant has very small dark green purple leaves with heavy frosting and the buds are almost non existent at week 7 flower
> The other has dense buds but is light green with some yellowing. (This is the first plant sprouted)
> ...


Wouldn't that be just the dominant gene working.  I mean if it's 80%indica and 20% sativa,  then theoretically 8 out of 10 plants will take on a shorter bushy indica look while the other 2 will be the tall sativa strain? I always notice that when I'm planting numerous plants of the same strain.  Some will be indica and some will be sativa.  I imagine the potency and smell could be affected right?


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 28, 2022)

oldfogey8 said:


> I hope the ugly duckling turns into a swan for you when she is chopped, dried and cured…


Thanx OF. Me too


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## choxie (Apr 29, 2022)

DavidfromMichigan said:


> Wouldn't that be just the dominant gene working.  I mean if it's 80%indica and 20% sativa,  then theoretically 8 out of 10 plants will take on a shorter bushy indica look while the other 2 will be the tall sativa strain? I always notice that when I'm planting numerous plants of the same strain.  Some will be indica and some will be sativa.  I imagine the potency and smell could be affected right?



Well height, like humans, it is multifactorial which I'm sure is controlled by a few hundred genes. So when you consider strains, I doubt it'll correlate that well to the relative percentages of off spring with genotype. Mainly since there's recessive genes, variable penetrance genes, conditional genes, and random mutations that will factor into the overall phenotype.


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