# First Time Growing!!!



## bigpuff12 (Jun 25, 2009)

Hey every one here are some pics of me vegitative room. Its my first time to grow and im really having fun watching my plants grow! I would love some constructive critisism on my system its completly home made!


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## Shockeclipse (Jun 25, 2009)

Make sure you keep your lights as close to your canopy as your temps allow.  You are going to want to have 5000 lumens per sf.  Are you flowering with cfl's too?  Isyour res in a closed off room with no light?  Your res needs to be light proof or you can have algae growth.  I would fine a way to wrap it in something light proof and keep that cover on as well


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## bigpuff12 (Jun 25, 2009)

Shockeclipse said:
			
		

> Make sure you keep your lights as close to your canopy as your temps allow. You are going to want to have 5000 lumens per sf. Are you flowering with cfl's too? Isyour res in a closed off room with no light? Your res needs to be light proof or you can have algae growth. I would fine a way to wrap it in something light proof and keep that cover on as well


 
Ok so how would i figure out how many lumens i have? I have no idea what cfl's are. and yes my res is in a light proof area and i do keep the top on its just off in the pic, my bad.


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## MickFoster (Jun 25, 2009)

CFL's are compact flourescent lights.  However you don't have those - it appears they are either 3' or 4' flourescent tubes.  If they are 4' - each bulb probably puts out about 3,000 lumens - the package the bulbs come in should say what the lumen output is.  If you are using those fixtures throughout your grow I would suggest cool white bulbs for veg and warm white for flower.  One last thing - I would definitely either paint or tape the container you are using for your reservoir.


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## ArtVandolay (Jun 25, 2009)

Looks great .  Is that silver stuff that reflectix stuff they sell at lowes and h depot?  I used it on my first grow box, too, last summer.  I found that it reflected a lot of heat inside the box.  I replaced mine with plywood painted flat white and it reduced the temp inside the box quite a bit.


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## StoneyBud (Jun 25, 2009)

Shockeclipse said:
			
		

> Make sure you keep your lights as close to your canopy as your temps allow. You are going to want to have 5000 lumens per sf. Are you flowering with cfl's too? Is Your res in a closed off room with no light? Your res needs to be light proof or you can have algae growth. I would fine a way to wrap it in something light proof and keep that cover on as well





			
				MickFoster said:
			
		

> CFL's are compact fluorescent lights. However you don't have those - it appears they are either 3' or 4' fluorescent tubes. If they are 4' - each bulb probably puts out about 3,000 lumens - the package the bulbs come in should say what the lumen output is. If you are using those fixtures throughout your grow I would suggest cool white bulbs for veg and warm white for flower. One last thing - I would definitely either paint or tape the container you are using for your reservoir.


 
Hey bigpuff12, it looks like you've put a lot of planning into your grow so far. You've got a nice, clean and professional looking setup.

Shockeclipse and MickFoster have given you some great advice. Your bulbs should also have a part number or some sort of identifying text on one of the ends. If you post the manufacturer of the  bulbs and that text, I can look it up for you. You'll definitely need some more light. I see some stretching of your nodes already, and that will do nothing but waste vertical space and lessen your harvest weight. 

If you push your plants together in a square, where none of the leaves are touching, then measure the distance of two of the sides. Multiply them together and you'll have the square of whatever (inches or feet) you're using and then convert it to square feet. It can all be done via online calculators. If you need help, just ask and someone here will help you out if I don't see your post first.

Then, knowing what your square feet are, multiply that number by 5000.

That's how many lumens you want to use over your plants at a distance that doesn't make your plant canopy too hot. Be careful with that. You don't want to fry them.

What that will do is make your plants grow at their fastest rate and with the tightest nodes possible. Tight nodes = more buds.

Good luck man! Just ask about what you don't understand and one of the many growers here will help you out.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 25, 2009)

Your plants look somewhat stretched--I think you probably need more/better light.  What is the sq footage of your room?  Multiply that by 5000 and that is your lumen requirement.  I do not believe, however, that you can actually get 5000 lumens per sq ft unless you are using T5s--i.e. a 4 tube 4' T8 or 12 fixture takes up about 4 sq ft of ceiling space and only puts out about 12000 lumens.


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## Shockeclipse (Jun 25, 2009)

I think two people are refering to sf and light requirements in different ways.  THG is refering to room size and Stoney is talking about the space the plants take up.  No I am confused too.  I always thought it was room size and nit pla ts space that matters lumen wise.


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## StoneyBud (Jun 25, 2009)

Shockeclipse said:
			
		

> I think two people are referring to sf and light requirements in different ways. THG is referring to room size and Stoney is talking about the space the plants take up. Now I am confused too. I always thought it was room size and not plant space that matters lumen wise.


The light that doesn't hit the plants is pretty much meaningless. When the plants are small, they need less light for two different reasons. First, they aren't at their full growth speed and require less light per/sq ft and secondly, they occupy less square feet and it takes less total lumens to make the 5000 per/sq ft.

The reflective material surrounding the plants is important. The plants nearest the reflective material will grow slightly faster than the plants further away and even directly under the lights.

If growing in a large room, having panels that are the "walls" of the grow area that can be adjusted outward as the plants grow larger is an advantage. In my hydro setup, I can't do that, but I've set up other grow-rooms that did use that method and it does provide additional growth speed if one is after that additional speed of crop cycling.

While the plants are still small, they're more susceptible to IR than they are when older and more well established in the vegetative cycle. All lights produce IR. Wind doesn't affect IR, so fans have no effect on the damage excess IR can cause. If too strong of light is used over too small of plant, the IR will damage or kill the plants. 

In my setup, I use one 430 watt HPS for the initial growth of seedlings to young plants. I put the light at 24 inches while the seedlings are establishing their root systems. Then I gradually lower the light over the first two weeks until it's at about 18 inches and I keep my lights at that distance for the remainder of the grow.

As soon as the plants are large enough, I add my second 430 HPS and both are at the 18 inch level at that point. After about 3 days of minor stunting as a result of the radical change in the amount of total light and IR, the plants take off like rabbits. The larger they get, and the closer they get to the walls, (I use bright flat white paint), the faster the plants next to the outside edge grow.

Plant canopy area is the determining factor when establishing what size lights you need. Only the light that hits the plants matters. Later, reflective light matters also, or if you use movable panels, the reflective light will help right away.

Some people can't afford but one light or the grow-room configuration is that which prevents them from changing their light usage. If that is the case, then having a light based on the largest plant canopy anticipated is the best plan. That, in most cases would be the size of the room. I believe that's what THG means when referring to room size and lights.


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## StoneyBud (Jun 25, 2009)

I thought of a good way to explain the "room" and "plant canopy" lighting needs.

Picture a room that is 12 feet by 12 feet. In the center of the room, there are 20 little 6 inch tall MJ plants pushed together where they just touch leaf tips. The plants are in 4 inch pots with 4 pots up the side and 5 across the top. That's taking up the space of 16 inches by 20 inches, or 1.33 ft x 1.66 ft which is 2.2 sq ft.

At 5000 lumens per/sq ft, they would need 11 thousand lumens.

Now picture the same plants when they've just been turned to flowering at 4 feet tall. The plants now each take up a 3 foot by 3 foot area, so the total plant canopy is more than the 12 foot by 12 foot room can handle and the plants are shoved together some. Now, the entire 12 x 12 room is full of plants which makes 144 square feet of plant canopy that needs 5000 lumens per sq ft.

144 x 5000 is 720 Thousand lumens needed.

Now you can see the difference between room size and plant canopy size in terms of lighting.

However, in some cases, like I said in my previous post, a person may only have a 4 x 4 room and afford only one 600 watt HPS. At that point, he's got about 95 Thousand lumens. To achieve 5000 lumens per sq ft, he would only need 80 Thousand lumens, so he's got all he'll need when the plants are full grown.

Since he's only got one light, while the plants are tiny, he'll just use the light at a safe distance and write off the excess that isn't used by the plants. In this type of scenario, the room size is what he had to base his light purchase on, because he could only afford one light.

I hope I was able to make this concept more clear for everyone.


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## Shockeclipse (Jun 26, 2009)

Thank you Stoney, I get it now.  So it always helps when choosing your space size in accordance with the size plants you want to grow and the amount of light needed.  I would think if your planning on filling the grow area then you should plan for that amount of needed lumens.  I get that it doesn't matter in the beginning but down the road it does.  I think that prolly means I am running around 6000 lumens per sf in my setup based on canopy size.


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## Timmyjg6 (Jun 26, 2009)

Hay bro, nice setup.. I am sure yours is a lot moor thought up than our first's.. But that's where you learn from your mistakes. This first grow might not be done perfect and you might not have a great harvest but you will make up for that in knowledge. Also i started out in a little closet like this, but thin decided to go bigger after first grow.

I have a couple things to say..
1. It looks like you are in a 3'x3' closet. But you are only going to be using about 4sq feet id say.

2. For lights you are using two, 2-foot 2-bulb Florescent light's. Which really are not going to give you great results once you reach your flowering stage. But id just finish the grow and i have a feeling you will upgrade after this grow. Thing is anything bigger and you will have heat problems. Just something to think about.

3. Some suggestions i would have is i would read up on LSTing and i would performe that on your plants to get a nice thick canopy. Also i would switch them to flower pretty soon, by the looks of it your plants are already about 2' tall and i am not sure exactly how much room your lights, pots, and rez take but looks like a good bit of room. And knowing your plants will probably double in size once you switch to flower id think you would be almost out of room. Just looking out for you bro. good luck. Any questions just let me know.


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## skallie (Jun 26, 2009)

hey timmyjg6 when ya get out of the slammer

lol

skallie


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## Timmyjg6 (Jun 26, 2009)

Last thursday... IM freeee


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## StoneyBud (Jun 26, 2009)

Shockeclipse said:
			
		

> Thank you Stoney, I get it now. So it always helps when choosing your space size in accordance with the size plants you want to grow and the amount of light needed. I would think if your planning on filling the grow area then you should plan for that amount of needed lumens. I get that it doesn't matter in the beginning but down the road it does. I think that prolly means I am running around 6000 lumens per sf in my setup based on canopy size.


It sounds like you understand what's up with the lights now. Also, keep in mind that if you have your lights arranged so that half the light *isn't* on the plants, then that light is now outside the equation. The light that *hits* the plants is what counts. I have two configurations for the hooks that support my lights. One is for the single 430 to hang in the center over the canopy and then, later, I use the other hooks to move both lights to be centered over the plant canopy. Using the height to span the size of the canopy is also a trick you can use. Moving the lights *slightly up or down will move the distance the light covers inward or outward as well. Sometimes it's necessary to alter the size of light to accommodate the size of the grow area also. Some people do this by moving from CFL's to Halides or HPS's, or even from linear Fluorescents to MH or HPS. 

Optimizing your light to your grow at it's various stages is one of the most important aspects of having a maximized crop at harvest.


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## bigpuff12 (Jun 26, 2009)

Timmyjg6 said:
			
		

> Hay bro, nice setup.. I am sure yours is a lot moor thought up than our first's.. But that's where you learn from your mistakes. This first grow might not be done perfect and you might not have a great harvest but you will make up for that in knowledge. Also i started out in a little closet like this, but thin decided to go bigger after first grow.
> 
> I have a couple things to say..
> 1. It looks like you are in a 3'x3' closet. But you are only going to be using about 4sq feet id say.
> ...


 

hey bro ok so when i flowr i want to chang the light. but your right if i go any bigger i will have a heat problme and thats really hard to deal with cuz it all in a coat closet, its very hard to ventlate. and one more thing ......LSTing? thanks bro for all your and every body elses help!!!


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