# Huge leafs block light



## GuyGalaxy (May 1, 2011)

I have massive leafs that block the light to everything else, what do you, cut them to get light to the under growth or are those massive leafs what are making my plant so great.


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## ozzydiodude (May 1, 2011)

Those massive leaves are the power plants feeding engery to the undergrowth that allows it to grow. I leave them alone til they start dying off naturally.


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## GuyGalaxy (May 1, 2011)

thx


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## Locked (May 1, 2011)

I try not to prune leaves if I don't have to....if I have a Cpl in the way I will manipulate the leaf a bit till it is out of the way. A bend here and there usually does the trick.  Jmo


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## docfishwrinkle (May 1, 2011)

ok so if youre in veg then do as you will to an extent as long as you give enough time to recoup b4 flower. ime those "solar panels" that block light to future bud sites do more harm then good, especially when they dwarf your hand. try on one plant & leave the others & see what you perfer. not trying to stir the pot Oz & HL. in flower let fall naturally. dont go crazy a couple here & there.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 1, 2011)

I love those huge hand sized leaves.  Do not cut them--they are what fuels the plant--buds do not actually need light.


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## Syke (May 1, 2011)

i cut mine
they love it more
i grow outdoors
but the insides like seeing light just as much as tht big leaf 
if there is good node growth at tht particular node then i would pluck it

edit:
Hemp goddess i actually disagree wit your comment
about the bud not needing light....
thats the KEY to great buds
IMO


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

Syke said:
			
		

> i cut mine
> they love it more
> i grow outdoors
> but the insides like seeing light just as much as tht big leaf
> ...



simply not true syke. photosynthesis is where everything 'good' occurs for growth, heath and vitality. That only occurs in the green portions of a plant, and "primarily" in the large leaves. 
 The 'buds' do not have the ability to utilize light. (photosynthesize)
hXXp://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html
   When I first started growing OD back in 1980, I was told by my mentor the same thing..."prune prune prune!!".. 
     Years later, I learned the error of my ways. Pruning leaves only serves to make the plant expend more energy trying to replace them. It is not beneficial to remove them, and "IME", actually slows growth/production.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 2, 2011)

Anyone who believes that it is good practice to cut the large fan leaves may want to read up little more on the botany of the plant.


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

lol
my plants never had one problem with it
no stress
no problems with "slow growth"
and IME a large fan leaf produces energy for tht specific node
once that node is soo big(3 4 5 internodes on it)
its pointless for tht big leaf to create more energy for tht node
because it already has more leaves growing on tht node

i know ur probably juss gonna give me bad rep for disagreeing with you
but i dont care
IME if ur gonna leave all the big leaves.
then u should trim all your lower nodes so the plants not wasting energy 
making lanky nasty bammer nugs

and also i dont appreciate people saying that im ill informed
and need to read more
because i've read everything on this website,
i've been here for years now
and if i recall, no where does it says pruning is bad/stressful/wrong

like i said i get thick buds
from the tippy top, to the very bottom
no useless scraggle on my plants, but if u guys are into that
to each his own i guess


EDIT
and if buds dont need light how do they get trichs?
they juss magically show up? no


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## woodydude (May 2, 2011)

I am not vastly experienced like Hick or THG but I can and do read. 
A grower friend swears by trimming all his fan leaves off, so, as a little experiment, I got him to leave 1 plant with its leaves on but block the light from getting to one particular bud. It was measured before doing this and a week later, it had grown about 20% with no light getting to it. How is this possible? Photosynthesis by the fan leaves.
There is more to what I did to convert my friend but now he leaves his leaves alone (padron the pun) unless they are damaged.

As for the tricks, what do you think happens? The light makes them metamorphosise? Do the leaves, stem, branches all metamorphosise via a little magic portal like star trek? whiisshhhh, trichs!

Needless to say, this is one of those hot topics that divides opinion, as usual, my opinion is swayed by science, particularly botany and I dont trim unless damaged.

Peace all. W (whiiishhhh gone)


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

ok so ur friend experimented
wht were the results?
the one with the leave left on grew 20%
and the one without leaves grew less than 20%
in the same time period...?

and yes i realize the plant works as one
but tht doesnt mean your yeild will be anything the same as nugs with light exposure


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

Syke said:
			
		

> lol
> my plants never had one problem with it
> no stress
> no problems with "slow growth"
> ...



  I guess 'reading' and "comprehending" ARE two different things!  
If you've both read and comprehend either the link that I posted, or the link to Clarkes "MJ Botany", (found on this site) I don't think you would be saying what you're saying. 
    I've been growing outdoors for more than 30 years. I have probably done more stupid things to my plants than most. I've boiled the roots, I've driven nails into the stalk, I've bent, tied, broken and beat, and I've trimmed off the big fan leaves. NONE of which can compare to providing them with as near perfect environment as possible, proper feed, and lots of sunshine on those giant fan leaves. I will gladly compare my OD to yours.   
  ESPECIALLY, _outdoors_, you are NOT going to have any issue with light penetration. Or sufficient light to your lower growth..


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## StoneyBud (May 2, 2011)

GuyGalaxy said:
			
		

> I have massive leafs that block the light to everything else, what do you, cut them to get light to the under growth or are those massive leafs what are making my plant so great.


 
Wow, this argument keeps coming around.

What I'm about to say is in every "Botany 101" book ever written. 

The leaves grow as a result of the plant sending a particular set of hormones to the spot on the branch where the leaf will grow. The plant sends those hormones so that it can take advantage of the additional light it senses at that point of the plant, where no leaves are growing. 

The leaf gets large by being told to get large by the plant. It does so to COLLECT light for for photosynthesis and that photosynthesis is what makes the flowers, (BUDS), grow and grow as well as possible.

The parts of the plant that are green ALL contribute to photosynthesis, but the amount of photosynthesis created by the flowers themselves is tiny when compared to that produced by the leaves which are hit by the photons from the lights.

Removing ANY LEAF will TAKE AWAY from the total photosynthesis of the plant, NOT help it.

Taking healthy leaves off a plant is NOT something that should be done, and anyone who thinks it is, doesn't really understand how a plant like MJ grows in the first place.

I'm not being mean by saying this, but it's not "up for debate". It's proven plant science that has no "maybes" left in that part of the science.

Once again, this is not my opinion. It's proven fact that has been proven by scientists who have studied it down to the last molecule of the plant.

Anyone who doubts this can learn their error by simply picking up a book on "Plant Biology 101" at whatever university is closest to you.

Taking leaves off of a plant to make any part of that plant grow better is like cutting off your legs so you can run faster because you now weigh less. In terms of REAL Plant Biology, it makes no sense at all.

Pseudo Plant Biology that makes argument that more light hitting the buds equals more bud growth is nothing more than ignorance of real plant biology. It's not how plants work.


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

ive grown outdoors few times
and yeilded 3 pounds off of 3 plants
if it werent for the FBI hacking this **** and destroying everything
i could show u my 3 8' plants
for my FIRST grow OD EVER!

i dont know why u are trying to compete hick
u have something personal against me or something
but go ahead drop my rep again like u did last year
i dont care

i have my opinion u have yours
show me where it says pruning is bad and causes slow growth
and show me how good of a grower the person is who wrote it is,
and ill still practice my way

lol @stoney u just proved me right
u said" everything green produces photosynthesis"
so if a lower leaf does not collect light it gets the last of or a$$ end of the energy
tht is already used throughout the rest of the plant.
which in turn creates lower scraggle buds
with minimal trichs tht are clear.

furthermore the relationship between light to a bud site are important
proven by all of your guys lower nasty buds


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## StoneyBud (May 2, 2011)

Syke said:
			
		

> I've grown outdoors few times
> and yielded 3 pounds off of 3 plants
> if it weren't for the FBI hacking this **** and destroying everything
> i could show u my 3 8' plants
> ...


 
Hick's not getting personal on you man. What he's saying is in every "Plant Biology 101" book published in the last 20 years.

I'm sorry man, but what you're saying is impossible. It's not "opinion", it's proven fact that has no room for argument. The fact that you haven't read the information or really proven it to yourself via lab quality experimentation doesn't make it any less fact.

Please, take my advice and go to any book store and buy a "Plant Biology 101" type book and read that puppy from cover to cover. You'll learn why what you're saying is not possible.


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

it will say cutting it is not the most productive choice for a plant
yes that fits into biology 101 i realize tht ur not "supposed" to cut green leaves
but if u have 3+ month of veg plus 2 or more month of flower
u will get a plant like this
very thick on the outside
but on the inside it is visibly dark
tell me light is penetrating tht whole plant hick
u cant see light threw it
which means its NOT penetrating

so in my mind 20 30 40 leaves over 6 months 
over a 8 foot plant
aint diddly squat by golly fosh

so if u dont like it or me
u can envy my monsters in a couple months ok?


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

syke... I gave you back your 'green' pebbles AFTER others neg' repped you for your poor posts.  I'm not going to be goaded into a 'personal pissin match'.  
  Arguing 'your opinion' against scientific fact and decades of experience, is 'your' choice. AND, I suppose if others weigh evidence, see the difference and use a little logic. They can make their own decision...

:rofl:.. THAT.. :rofl: is NOT your plant!.. :rofl:


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## ozzydiodude (May 2, 2011)

From Clarke's Marijuana Botany





> Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.
> 
> In actuality, few if any of the theories behind leafing give any indication of validity. Indeed, leafing possibly serves to defeat its original purpose. Large leaves have a definite function in the growth and development of Cannabis. Large leaves serve as photosynthetic factories for the production of sugars and other necessary growth sub stances. They also create shade, but at the same time they are collecting valuable solar energy and producing foods that will be used during the floral development of the plant. Premature removal of leaves may cause stunting, because the potential for photosynthesis is reduced. As these leaves age and lose their ability to carry on photo synthesis they turn chlorotie (yellow) and fall to the ground. In humid areas care is taken to remove the yellow or brown leaves, because they might invite attack by fungus. During chlorosis the plant breaks down substances, such as chlorophylls, and translocates the molecular components to a new growing part of the plant, such as the flowers. Most Cannabis plants begin to lose their larger leaves when they enter the flowering stage, and this trend continues until senescence. It is more efficient for the plant to reuse the energy and various molecular components of existing chlorophyll than to synthesize new chlorophyll at the time of flowering. During flowering this energy is needed to form floral clusters and ripen seeds.
> 
> ...


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## Peter Jennings (May 2, 2011)

As my English friend would say, trimmed to bloddyell.


View attachment 167479​
Text books are just that, a friggin book. Much of what is written is **. 

Seeing is believing right? This won't work on every strain of course, but with some it will.
:hubba:


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

:shocked:... well imagine THAT!...
thanks ozzie . Sometimes I get tired of going and digging up the references for ppl that lack the ambition to do it for themselves.



			
				ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> From Clarke's Marijuana Botany


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

Limbing is another common method of pruning Cannabis plants. Many small limbs will usually grow from the bottom portions of the plant, and due to shading they re main small and fail to develop large floral clusters. If these atrophied lower limbs are removed, the plant can devote more of its floral energies to the top parts of the plant with the most sun exposure and the greatest chance of pollination. The question arises of whether removing entire limbs constitutes a shock to the growing plant, possibly limiting its ultimate size. It seems in this case that shock is minimized by removing entire limbs, including proportional amounts of stems, leaves, meristems, and flowers; this probably results in less metabolic imbalance than if only flowers, leaves, or meristems were removed. Also, the lower limbs are usually very small and seem of little significance in the metabolism of the total plant. In large plants, many limbs near the central stalk also become shaded and atrophied and these are also sometimes removed in an effort to increase the yield of large floral clusters on the sunny exterior margins.

Leafing is one of the most misunderstood techniques of drug Cannabis cultivation. In the mind of the cultivator, several reasons exist for removing leaves. Many feel that large shade leaves draw energy from the flowering plant, and therefore the flowering clusters will be smaller. It is felt that by removing the leaves, surplus energy will be available, and large floral clusters will be formed. Also, some feel that inhibitors of flowering, synthesized in the leaves during the long noninductive days of summer, may be stored in the older leaves that were formed during the noninductive photoperiod. Possibly, if these inhibitor-laden leaves are removed, the plant will proceed to flower, and maturation will be accelerated. Large leaves shade the inner portions of the plant, and small atrophied floral clusters may begin to develop if they receive more light.



boom!
in your own grow guide it says right there
nothing about fact
nothing about 100%
nothing about  unnecessary stress

what i do see
is the words "may" or "could"
and it says cutting lower braches
leaves nodes and all
could be good for over all plant vigor
and furthermore it says leaves may be removed just dont over due it basically
so dont push your ways on me
i am not simple minded
far from it actually


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

You're right syke. The entire world of botany and science are wrong. You have far surpassed all of our experience and knowledge. Keep up the good work! spreading the truth and disproving all of our lies. 
THANK YOU!...


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 2, 2011)

There is no comparision between cutting off large fan leaves and trimming bottom branches--these are entirely different procedures that produce entirely different results.  You have been given the sccientific information.  If you choose to ignore it, that is your right.  And, JFYI, 1 lb off an outdoor plant is not a good yield.


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

NO PROBLEM
i love teaching the ignorant
to read between the lines
and not trust government

just like the lie they released about Bin Laden 
to raise obamas rep
and give our troops hope
that there lives arent being wasted away
over stupid bunk


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

1 pound isnt alot for your first grow
off of 1 plant?
lol
u guys are just buttered because i wont back down
i beleive what i want
and not what some 50 yr old man who has been growning lanky thai weed since the 70's
technology changes expand ur mind
stop beleiving what everyone tells u


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

we're ..."buttered" :confused2: because you're showing the entire planet how ignorant you really are.  No one here believes you, or is listening to your faked picture or your false information. They, like I, are simply not going to be dragged to "your" level. . 
  The facts are their for everyone to see and make their own mind up. 
 Believe a "self proclaimed" expert, or believe the facts and the scientific evidence that is presented.  backed up with decades of experience.

btw, I'm "post" 50 year old man. And I have probably threw more bud out the window of my truck after rolling a joint, than you have seen. 
I'm not afraid or ashamed to post _"my own"_ pictures, are you?..


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

lmao buttered
means ur butt hurt
and i never proclaimed to be an expert either smart one
faked pictures huh?
i got tht on the internet because my plants dont look like tht u idiot
and because u cant keep ur site secure enough to keep hackers out
i couldnt show u all my pictures
and its funny how u speak for everyone
they can make there decisions
but one thing is for sure
u dont have one grow journal
to show off anything
so as far as im concerned u are nothing but a book worm
who thinks he has experience


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

Put up or shutup kid.. "show" your superior skills and methods or go fly a kite. 
I won't tolerate your name calling or any more exhibitions of your childish ignorance and insults. 
You have "nothing" but your unsubstantiated "claims". 
It's a very poor excuse for not posting pictures. And an "excuse" is ALL it is. You have NOTHING...


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

one of the few flowering pictures i have left
this is one week into flower
only two of the 3
both pushin 7'+ in this picture

how did i know the KID joke was gonna come out
lmao u dont know me 
i have nothing? like i said ur the almighty mod who has no GJ
wow thts a really good mod
its funny how u assume all this sweet and soft spoken suggestions
when u know the site got hacked and theres nothing left
old man go take ur Viagra  
take ur denchers out 
kick back on ur lazy susan
and leave the good work to the youthful

i cant say wht i want 
but u can call me an ignorant kid?
who knows nothing
when in actuality u dont know fuzzy bunny ears about me

now thts wht i call some good light penetration


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## ozzydiodude (May 2, 2011)

:confused2: looks like that plant is way short of 8' and it has all it's sun leaves.


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

lol its ok ozzy u can hate on me too
i know wht i grew
and if u wanna recover those pics for me(oh wait u cant)
i could show u how much they exploded after that point
u see those posts in the backround
they are 10' 4x4 

and if u were paying attention ozzy
i said that i take the BIG leaves off that block lower node sun exposure
not remove every water leaf the plant produces

and if u guys stick around you will see my monsters this year
tht are growing in a space 3x times the space i had last year
and u will envy every minute of it


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## ozzydiodude (May 2, 2011)

I'm not hating on you but don't tell lies and expect us not to jump on you. It's ppl that tell lies that make the mj sites look bad to begin with.
they may have been 10 ft 4"x4" to start but 12+inches are in the ground. I was looking at the 4x8 sheet of lattice setting behind the plants and they  are not twice their height.


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

thts funny how im lying but ur the one who can tell my lattice dimension
by a pictures, but if u werent lying about tht.
u would have said tht they are 36 inches by 7'
how can u tell me im lying ozzy?
and also keep in mind u arent reading still
i said in the picture they are roughly one week into flower
the 10' post is buried yes between 12-16"
tht leaves _*about*_ 9ft out of the ground
the lattice in the picture was leaning can u tell that too?
can u also tell that the lattice isnt even connected?

and if u guys are as "all knowing" as u say
then u should know that some strains cant grow up to 3x there
pre-flowering size
sooo....


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## ozzydiodude (May 2, 2011)

Actually I wouldn't because the only lattice that I know of that comes in 6' x 3' panels is unpainted Bamboo in the long diamond pattern.

All the upper big leaves are blocking light from getting to the lower parts of the plant. So why are you leaving them?


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## Rockster (May 2, 2011)

Syke said:
			
		

> ive grown outdoors few times
> and yeilded 3 pounds off of 3 plants
> if it werent for the FBI hacking this **** and destroying everything
> i could show u my 3 8' plants
> ...



 "proven by all of your guys nasty lower buds"

 Grow up sonny


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## Hick (May 2, 2011)

Those are really sweet syke.
but look, mine are way over this mooses head, standing at around 7 feet at the shoulder.
  I thought you grew "trees"...
oops, lost the picture  gimme a minute syke, don't write me off just yet


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## Locked (May 2, 2011)

I am not sure why you think everyone is hating on you Syke....what you are saying is dead wrong and goes against the *facts* in Marijuana Botany....the fact that you think the bud sites need light to produce tricks(trichs) says you don't really understand how MJ grows. Trimming the sucker branches where the popcorn buds usually grow is not the same as trimming leaves. The fan leaves collect the sun that is used to make all the goodies on the buds...can you trim fan leaves and still get good yields? Yes but trimming them did not help you at all....if anything your yields wld be bigger if you left most of the leaves alone. Jmo

By the way this topic gets hot every time it is brought up....it is not worth getting into a pissing match over that is for sure.


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## Syke (May 2, 2011)

i leave those because the sun move thus the angle of the sunlight hits it later
i only trim leave for light exposure to lower growth or to lighten a dark area 
kinda like the picture i posted

ill post my bunk and ill compare to yours
come time


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## dman1234 (May 2, 2011)

Syke said:
			
		

> i cant say wht i want
> but u can call me an ignorant kid?
> who knows nothing
> when in actuality u dont know **** about me


 
Well we know somthing about you, we know your posting wrong info,

everyone else is wrong, but your right, keep telling yourself that.


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## StoneyBud (May 2, 2011)

Syke said:
			
		

> lol @stoney u just proved me right
> u said" everything green produces photosynthesis"
> so if a lower leaf does not collect light it gets the last of or a$$ end of the energy tht is already used throughout the rest of the plant.
> which in turn creates lower scraggle buds
> ...


 
Syke, I really am sorry man, but you're very confused about how a plant grows. I can see that nothing anyone says will convince you how wrong you are and how you are misinterpreting the information, so I'm not going to try any more. You've even misinterpreted what you've quoted me on.

When you try to pass off this bogus information as being true, one of us seasoned growers who do understand how plants grow will step in and prevent you from passing on your incorrect information.

You are doing nothing but refusing to learn.

My Mom used to say something that fits perfectly in this situation:

"A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still."

This has turned into a pointless thread.


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