# Breeding Autoflower



## theblues (Jan 2, 2009)

will someone please give me some info on how to successfully cross lowryder with a non autoflower strain such as skunk number one please....


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## umbra (Jan 2, 2009)

commercially available already, why bother. it would require several crossing/back crossings for a reliable strain. dutchbreed.com


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## Hick (Jan 2, 2009)

..any one, or all of the *"six stickies"* leading off this section of the forum, will get you headed in the right direction.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 3, 2009)

Breeding is a complicated process, even with ordinary strains--even moreso if you are trying to cross an autoflowering strain with a non auto flowering strain.  It is not something that can be answered in several paragraphs.  And the Stickies will only really get you started...


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## maineharvest (Jan 7, 2009)

breeding an auto strain would be the same as with any other strain


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## HippyInEngland (Jan 8, 2009)

Why would you want to do this?

Are you trying to make the non auto turn into an auto?

Auto's are less potent than non auto's, so it would be pointless trying to make a potent plant less potent.


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## umbra (Jan 8, 2009)

20 years ago or so, SSSC and the Seed Bank looked at ruderalis hybrids and said the same thing. They actually felt that it could pollute the gene pool, because somewhere there are genes with no THC. They may be recessive, they may be a small %, but they are there. No doubt, the autoflowering plants have come along way. The % of THC has risen with every cross. At this point, I would think it is premature to make any final judgements as to the value of the strain. I believe that some of the same concerns exist about feminzed seed, in that the hermi traits are being bred into strains by inexperienced breeders, who just want some seed and don't really understand the complexity of breeding.


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## imager777 (Jan 10, 2009)

I'd say not to discourage people's breeding attemps; even if they're not experts.  We all know where to get good genetics from.  There's nothing to say that an amature, either through research or just plain luck won't come up with something great.  Even if it's not a stable cross; it's advancement.  Actually, it could also be a setback.  Either way it's helpful in the long run.  Who knows; in a few years we may see an autoflowering strain win  the cannabis cup.  I'm pretty sure no one's going to ruin the general thc content of the bulk of the plants out or populate the earth with ruderalises that contains no thc.  I have high hopes, however, that someone will come up with something better than lowrider.

By the way, I'm not attacking anyone.  I don't want it to come across that way.  That just my input based on what I was reading.  There seemed to be people that wanted to automatically discourage it because of the inherent difficulties.  I just think that's the wrong way to go about things.


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## Rockster (Jan 10, 2009)

Select a desireable Skunk #1 pheno and pollinate with autoflower pollen.

This first cross when grown out will not show any dwarf/autoflower plants but select the healthiest female and pollinate with the same pollen again.

This second generation should start to show some dwarf/autoflower plants and its one of these females you pollinate again with the same pollen.

The next generation should show even more dwarf/autoflower plants and a female is again pollinated.

This is done 5-6 times by which time all offspring should be dwarf/autoflower and can be inbred with itself and produce stable autoflowering plants.

That I think is the gist of it although I've not done it myself and have only read a bit about breeding stuff like Lowryder and the choice of breeding parents,not just doing the crosses,is the most skilled part of the operation.


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## massproducer (Jan 11, 2009)

I feel what you are saying but the problem is that we do not live in some sort of utopia, where things happen as we want them too, and honestly from what i read all that was stated was... Reality






			
				imager777 said:
			
		

> I'd say not to discourage people's breeding attemps; even if they're not experts. We all know where to get good genetics from. There's nothing to say that an amature, either through research or just plain luck won't come up with something great. Even if it's not a stable cross; it's advancement. Actually, it could also be a setback. Either way it's helpful in the long run. Who knows; in a few years we may see an autoflowering strain win the cannabis cup. I'm pretty sure no one's going to ruin the general thc content of the bulk of the plants out or populate the earth with ruderalises that contains no thc. I have high hopes, however, that someone will come up with something better than lowrider.
> 
> By the way, I'm not attacking anyone. I don't want it to come across that way. That just my input based on what I was reading. There seemed to be people that wanted to automatically discourage it because of the inherent difficulties. I just think that's the wrong way to go about things.


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## massproducer (Jan 11, 2009)

Trust me, there is a lot more to it




			
				Rockster said:
			
		

> Select a desireable Skunk #1 pheno and pollinate with autoflower pollen.
> 
> This first cross when grown out will not show any dwarf/autoflower plants but select the healthiest female and pollinate with the same pollen again.
> 
> ...


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## bombbudpuffa (Jan 11, 2009)

Rockster said:
			
		

> Select a desireable Skunk #1 pheno and pollinate with autoflower pollen.
> 
> This first cross when grown out will not show any dwarf/autoflower plants but select the healthiest female and pollinate with the same pollen again.
> 
> ...


Not trying to belittle you but your info is off a lil. He'd need to start with the parents(P1) which, in this case would be Lowryder and Skunk. The first cross(F1) will show lil variation. You cross F1 to F1 and make F2. F2 will show a wide variation of phenos. You cross F2 to F2 to get F3 and based on your plant selection(sat pheno x indica pheno, sat x sat, indi x indi), these will also be uniform in phenotypes. You cross F3 x F3 to get F4. Like F2 these will show variance but not as wide of a variance as the F2. The more traits you are trying to stabilize, the harder breeding becomes. Stick to looking for one trait at a time for stabilization. For instance, only look to make an auto flower but not an autoflower thats potent because looking to stabilize 2 traits will require a lot more plants. Breeding is not difficult just space and time consuming. The best book i've read on breeding, because of it's understandability, is DJ Shorts Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis. If you want to breed this could be the best $15 you could spend. Btw, this is just a generalization, not the actual process.


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## imager777 (Jan 12, 2009)

I guess I should clarify my statements.

massproducer: All I really wanted is what's happening now.  People actually adressing the question and giving valuable information.  What was happening, was people coming on and basically saying you don't have the ability to do this and even if you did, it's a stupid idea.  Give up and leave it to the "experts".

The stickies don't specificially adress the issues unique to autoflowering strains (As far as I recall) and gathering up the information could be quite a task -- especially if you don't know exactly what you're looking for.  When you come to the breeding forum, it should be taken that you have at least a basic knowlege of that it takes to go through the breeding process.  Then you won't get bonbarded with these types of things when you ask an informational question:

"commercially available already, why bother."

"Why would you want to do this?

Are you trying to make the non auto turn into an auto?

Auto's are less potent than non auto's, so it would be pointless trying to make a potent plant less potent."

"20 years ago or so, SSSC and the Seed Bank looked at ruderalis hybrids and said the same thing. They actually felt that it could pollute the gene pool, because somewhere there are genes with no THC. They may be recessive, they may be a small %, but they are there. No doubt, the autoflowering plants have come along way. The % of THC has risen with every cross. At this point, I would think it is premature to make any final judgements as to the value of the strain. I believe that some of the same concerns exist about feminzed seed, in that the hermi traits are being bred into strains by inexperienced breeders, who just want some seed and don't really understand the complexity of breeding."


None of that really gives the original user an answer to or even help with this question: "will someone please give me some info on how to successfully cross lowryder with a non autoflower strain such as skunk number one please...."

I'm not looking for some type of blissful utopia that exist in a fantasy world somewhere.  I just want to read the ANSWER to the original question.  There is a real life way to go about doing this cross that will yield good and consistent results.  In theory, If done correctly, THC shouldn't be affected much, if at all, and the auto flower trait should be adopted.   What is that actual procedure?

[EDIT] Now I'm not adding any type of valuable information; but didn't feel right not clarifying myself.  Please excuse the forum clutter.[/edit]


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## Rockster (Jan 12, 2009)

massproducer said:
			
		

> Trust me, there is a lot more to it



I'll bet there IS a lot more to it massproducer as I was just giving a rough idea of what I'd heard about work with autoflowering plants.

@bombbudpuffa.No worries mate,don't feel belittled and many thanks for the good info which I'm sure imager will make good use of and I'm always very grateful to anybody that gives me info that supercedes my own knowledge.


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## bombbudpuffa (Jan 12, 2009)

Hey, man, i'm not that knowledgeable, for real. I just listen to folks that are. I'm too happy to share something i've just learned.


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## Rockster (Jan 12, 2009)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> Hey, man, i'm not that knowledgeable, for real. I just listen to folks that are. I'm too happy to share something i've just learned.



 Sure mate,100% with you on that one as although I've been growing for decades just describe myself as an enthusiastic lifelong learner with my ego on the back burner!

 Not a poet either ha ha!

 Only time I let my ego get stroked is when I look at the look on the faces of people who try my pot!


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## bombbudpuffa (Jan 12, 2009)

> Only time I let my ego get stroked is when I look at the look on the faces of people who try my pot!


I know the exact look you're talking about:rofl: .


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## Mutt (Jan 12, 2009)

Mind if chime in? I have not grown or probably won't ever grow ruderalis beans, but....
I bounced around reading up on ruderalis crosses. I learned a couple of things. The LR male is what carries the autoflower trait. Also on the F2 generation the autoflower trait diminishes.

I think the cross would be very difficult to get to autoflower everytime. The pheno varitation would still get ya in the end I would think. your only real option would be inbreeding to keep it simple. But I would think that the use of many males would be more nec. than just the female in this case and if what i read was true.

The conventional breeding methods cannot apply in autoflower breeding i would think. so really I haven't seen a definitive how as of yet. Think most that got it figured are keeping there mouths shut to keep on making money 

Just my 2 cents worth.


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## bombbudpuffa (Jan 12, 2009)

> Also on the F2 generation the autoflower trait diminishes.


Doyou mean in auto flower strains in general or crosses with autos?


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## Mutt (Jan 13, 2009)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> Doyou mean in auto flower strains in general or crosses with autos?


In general (LowRyders) from what i read and researched. that F2's drop to almost 50% non-auto flowering F3's worse. Crosses even more of a crap shoot. I think the male is the key factor in the chances of good progeny. but again this only what i found online...which isn't a whole lot of info on breeding them out there. with good reason. becuase the only reason why peeps buy them is for there short stature and fast flowering time.


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## mistisrising (Jan 13, 2009)

Mutt said:
			
		

> becuase the only reason why peeps buy them is for there short stature and fast flowering time.



Exactly. This is why the autos, and the femmed seeds have a market, there are a lot of people out there now using marijuana medicinally. They would need to get it as easily as possible, and not being smokers previously, aren't really all that interested in how it's produced, just that it's there for them when they need it. What's easier than buying a femmed auto, putting it in a two gallon bag, under a flouro, and waiting ten weeks? For a med patient, that kicks arse.


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## bombbudpuffa (Jan 13, 2009)

> In general (LowRyders) from what i read and researched. that F2's drop to almost 50% non-auto flowering


I'm running some auto AK f2 and they are autoing fine. Maybe it's just LR with that trait. We'll see...i'm about to make f3.


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## Mutt (Jan 13, 2009)

If you could BBP could you do a journal on how your selecting your progeny? I think that would help peeps emmensly. Even me. Anymore I follow along breeding journals more than anything. I'm trying to learn more about male selection which is my biggest obstacle right now.
I look forward to seeing the F3 gen of your AK auto's.


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## bombbudpuffa (Jan 13, 2009)

> If you could BBP could you do a journal on how your selecting your progeny?


 Lol...with these I just kept whatever male showed up because I don't have many. Luckily he's flowering fast and has tight internodes. You can check my Drive By thread...the autos are in there. I'll update it with my fems, which are getting big, later tonight when my lights come on. I'm looking for males in the grow in my sig...maybe you could follow that one.


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