# Zarnon takes aim at a fall and winter grow



## Zarnon (Oct 19, 2006)

Hola amigo/as! 

How have y'all been? Welp,  it's time to make my little clothes closet a grow room again!  

I left at the end of a very fun Kali Mist which has cured out very very nicely!  It's some fragrant stuff and the high is very 'up'.  

............ and now for something completely different!

What is the lineage of AK-47? Welp,  it's one of five strains from SS and pretty much everyone knows of it.   It's been crossed and more crossed.  

The guy who started Serious Seeds introduced both Chronic and AK-47 at the 1994 Cannibus Cup.

This strain has Indy, but is still mostly Sativa.  

They say 1.5 mo (Gypsy Nirv) so I'm gonna guess 2 for flower.

Fall air will let us do C02 this time around.    This is fairly basic but does include a regulator/sensor and another unit that kicks off the Co2 if an exhaust fan is on.

Germination:

There's many ways to germinate, and the seed will germ if it can.  

I have used a germination method that is really easy and has gotten 100% generally within 72h [edit:  this grow was 24 hours].  Basically take the seeds you want on moistened paper towel.  I get the towel really wet with distilled water and then shake all the water out (by putting in a ball).  I loosely fold the towels a few times then loosly (the idea is to be really gentle) put it in a bag to keep the humidity up.  Then I put it a dark plastic bag and set it on my stereo.  The multiple layers keep it from getting too warm.   Once they sprout,  I'll start 'em under fluoro in the 'grow chamber'.


* * *


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Oct 20, 2006)

*Whats up Zarnon. Glad to see your back at it again. Looking foward to following this journal from beginning to end. Good luck man.  *


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## Mutt (Oct 20, 2006)

Now thats a set-up man. Lookin foward to this journal.


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## Zarnon (Oct 21, 2006)

Hello Mutt and the Brothers!  Nice to see y'all back again after my summer off. Mutt I read you are back as well...

All 5 seeds germed and they are now in the first rapid rooters.   The rest of the morning I spent rinsing hydroton and making sure all the waterfarms ran correctly.   I noticed the show 'Weeds' has the same "Black Buckets O' Death" made in my hometown. Cool! (still totally off technically but you gotta admire the effort).

BTW,  you can make these WF buckets for about 10 bucks each.  All of the ones below (ext. pump version) I made myself.


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## ProductiveSmoker (Oct 21, 2006)

Wow, that looks like a scene from the 80's movie "Flight of the Navigator"!

You appear to have more growing experience than I do, but I thought that aluminum foil shiny side exposed was a bad thing as it creates hot spots?  Or is it something else?


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## Zarnon (Oct 21, 2006)

Whassup dude?  Thanks for your comments!

Nah, don't even stress about heat spots, what you're seeing are sheets of mylar.    

Anyways,  the whole 'aluminum foil shiny side causes heat burns' is urban growth myth IMHO.  Is there one pic in existence of someone having burn from al foil?   Nah......... the reason aluminum foil blows is that it's crumbly crap.   I can take down all that mylar and reroll it for next season.  If I need to adjust a sheet a few cm upward I can.  Can you imagine that with al. foil?  LOL

RE:  Heat spots.  It's going to be difficult to get the equivalent energy from a magnifying glass and the sun esp since here the leaves are moving (unless you have no circulation system). I've done multiple grows and never encountered a burn with leaves right up to that mylar (except a chemical one from nute splash, a totally different story).

As far as the techie side of me goes,  guilty!  I am a geek.  

The whole external pump system you see in this grow is something I came up with (back on the old Overgrow) and have used successfully through four grows.  I'd like to think there is a little 'Captain Nemo' in me.  

**


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## ProductiveSmoker (Oct 22, 2006)

That makes sense, I have never seen Mylar before!  Sorry for the short bus question!


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## Zarnon (Oct 22, 2006)

Nah dude,  I am ok with q's.  I want to post a grow journal people can learn from and I enjoy questions.   

The accomplished growers I know can give you very cogent reasons why they do what they do,  even if they buck 'conventional wisdom'  (see the clone tech I was taught in the previous grow.  You can see how even a very knowlegeable person like Hick can get caught in 'conventional wisdom').

Argh...looks like somehow I erased some of this stuff but here is the breakdown...

Once the environmental elements are stabilized (light, wind, temperature,  humidity,  etc) the main area for experimentation is the microenvironment.   New elements are signified with a (*).

Root support/enhancers

Cannazyme - cannot say enough positive stuff about Cannazyme.  It breaks down dead matter and will keep your roots looking white and healthy.
Eurponics Fossil Fuel - humic acid (*)
B subtilis -  was given a bag by a friend at the hydro store here.  I will update with the name but appears very concentrated compared to Hydroguard. (*)

Main Nutes

Canna Grow A/B
Canna Flower A/B 
PK 13/14

Flowering additives

B'Cuzz Bloom
FLoralicious
Bananamanna

Flush

Clearex (1st) (*)
Molasses flush (2nd) (*)


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## Bojok (Oct 22, 2006)

Everyone has seen mylar before if you ever been in a flower shop or grocery store and seen the baloons flying over head. Most are made of mylar..................................


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## stoner 420 (Oct 23, 2006)

hey zarnon man thanks for the knowledge of the al. foil i was thinking the same thing but everyone keep saying heat spots so i bought some flat white paint but one side of  my box is a piece of glass so ihave to find something to cover it with... thanks


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## Zarnon (Oct 24, 2006)

Started soaking the seeds Friday morning.  Here's where they are Monday nite (actually there's one more but wouldn't fit in that bowl).

Those RR really favor root formation.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Oct 24, 2006)

*We have babies.   Looking good so far Zarnon now let's turn those babies into MONSTER ladies.  *


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## Zarnon (Oct 26, 2006)

LOL... I am meditating on the mantra "OWATAFOLIAM".  Last night I nailed two fresh seedlings from part of a camera strap that slipped out when trying for the hand held macro shot!  Doh! 

I tied one up and later the other.  They are going to be ok.  I could've wiped out almost half my seedlings!

BTW,  do the shots look ok?  I am on a laptop with dark screen.


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## Mutt (Oct 26, 2006)

The shots look great man. They seem to "reaching for the sky" a little bit though. I know your a hydro grower. Is that so you can bury it deeper in the medium?


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## Zarnon (Oct 26, 2006)

Mutt,  you mean stretchy?  I think you're right.  I need to bury 'em a little deeper in those initial RR next time.  No need to have them sprouting in a day.   Plus I hit 2 with a camera strap LOL.

Hard to tell from the top shot but one is a good height.  It took an additional day to sprout and has a nice stocky stem.  

I don't think it's light stretch as the stem growth after sprouting has been minimal.

The only good part is that I've made this mistake before and seems to work out rather quickly.


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## Sabby (Oct 27, 2006)

Those are some purty bebbies!

I look forward to watching this journal closely. I want to try a hydro grow at some point, myself 

Good luck!


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## Zarnon (Oct 31, 2006)

Sabby - Welcome.  I hope you get some useful information from my lowly grow.

Ok dudes, here we are after a week.

They are off fluoro.  The MH is vented and 4.5' away.

They are on the res now but only because I wanted to get this stuff hooked up.  There is no need to fill the whole thing as I will be changing from seedling mix to the Canna in a week anyways.

I am trying Humic acid and B.  Subtilus this time,  the only changes I'm making.

Here we are (pic 1),  reality check (pic 2) LOL,  the third pic is the res feeder I built.   Usually I've waited to hook this up and when I do the buckets usually are not oriented right to accept a space conscious feeder.  (best to have the system numbered where they fit in, which I have done for future grows).

Hard to stay out of that room. Nice and toasty warm.   (80-83f w/ 35-40% humidity)


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## Zarnon (Nov 9, 2006)

K' dudes,   what's up?

Well,  it's been one screwed up week.

I had started this humic acid stuff at 1/4 str along with B. Subtilus a beneficial bacteria.   

I am not sure what it was, I think it was the h. acid.   H. acid is made from lignite, a soft coal.  It appears to have mineral absorbing qualities? http://www.netl.doe.gov/publications/proceedings/96/96em/Em96/Em-p1-12.pdf    I found one paper using humic acid with peppers,  but none with flowering plants. http://www.actahort.org/books/491/491_35.htm 

BTW, I had started at 1/4 str (brand name Fossil Fuel) so I don't think it was an overdose.

Anyways,  for whatever reason after 5 days I had noticed growth slowing waaay down. Some leaves came out twisted (see pic 5,  the older ones).  

I changed out the res at day 14 back to the 'old skool' formula.  They seem to be back on track.  Pic 1-4 are comparison shots of one day after changing out the res and two days later (so days 15 and 17). Pic 5 just shows how the new growth is coming in.   

The last pic was my bad.   I left this little valve off on the air pump.  It caused significant root death and I am not sure this one is going to rebound.  I have started replacements with 'skunk 1' (freebie from Gypsy N).

Didn't someone say 'If it 'aint broke don't fix it?'.   Doh!!


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## Mutt (Nov 9, 2006)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> The last pic was my bad. I left this little valve off on the air pump. It caused significant root death and I am not sure this one is going to rebound. (freebie from Gypsy N)


 
Sorry to hear of your troubles dude. Glad to see the others bounced back fast.
I hope your "injured" one pulls through for ya.


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## Zarnon (Nov 15, 2006)

Yo dudes....  or dude or whoever might be still with this LOL...

So here we are 6 days later... Things appear to be on track.

I wish I had not had the slowdown from the additives but live and learn.  Pretty much stayin the course with Canna Veg,  Superthrive, Rhizotonic and Cannazyme.

I don't know about the little scrapper... This one will probably go just because I thingk it'll be too small to go through flowering.   Two more weeks on veg abouts and then I'll start flower.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Nov 15, 2006)

*Whats up Zarnon. Man they have really grown since your last update. Whatever your doing they seem to love ya for it.   Keep up the great work man can't wait for those frosty buds man. :aok: *


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## Zarnon (Nov 17, 2006)

Yep,  I've learned once again not to make dramatic changes,  no matter how good it sounds at the Hydro Store.


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## Zarnon (Nov 21, 2006)

UPDATE FOR DIFF PHOTO

Hey y'all; 

I wanted to update the photo to show a true 'one week later' shot.  I think we've hit a 'sweet spot' environmentally and the plants are responding. 

We're officially one day before one month,  2 now have been topped twice.  9-12 inches in height (will flower around 1.5 feet).


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## KADE (Nov 21, 2006)

definately grew since the last update... lookin good! keep it up.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Nov 22, 2006)

*Zarnon those ladies are growing super fast man. What are you feeding them (STEROIDS).  Everything is looking great man keep it up. :aok: *


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## Zarnon (Nov 22, 2006)

It's definitely not the level of nutes;  up to this point I've only run 1/3 strength Canna. 

After I ditched the Humic Acid,  I went back to the Rhizotonic,  which really helps promote early root growth.  Also I've added a humidifier because the room gets so dry early on (I keep it at 50%).

This time I'm also going to make the 'peak dose' of veg nutes during the first week -10 days of stretch.


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## Zarnon (Nov 23, 2006)

Early signs of overnuting

I was just replying to a thread discussing nutes.  Because I just went through this,  I busted out the camera to show a few piccs.

The theory that percolates here and everywhere is that you need to put the pedal to the metal and give the plant all it can handle until it is showing signs of  being maxed out (the 'Foi Gras' method of cultivation).

My personal experience (not empirically tested) has been once I overdo it,  plant growth slows down.  This is proportional to the overnuting I did, and if severe can virtually stop her in her tracks(leaf burning and nute accumulation in the fan leaves).

I run very low nutes and the plant seems to respond very well.  I was at 1/3 str. Canna (300ppm) and with the recent res changed it to 500ppm.  

By nightfall two of the four were showing early signs of overdrying where the leaves get 'pruned out'.   Pic one shows a nice fat leaf while two shows the wrinkling and Pic three shows the early curling that occurs.  

By morning all had these signs and I try to listen when she tells me she's having too much of a good thing.


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## laylow6988 (Nov 23, 2006)

Yeah, I see in the leaves the way the edges are. And even the way the part between the veins are bowing out. That's a good pic to show people what the early stages are. Then from there they will get worse if not corrected. And like you said the growth can be severely effected to the point that it stops growing.


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## KADE (Nov 23, 2006)

laylow6988 said:
			
		

> Yeah, I see in the leaves the way the edges are. And even the way the part between the veins are bowing out. That's a good pic to show people what the early stages are. Then from there they will get worse if not corrected. And like you said the growth can be severely effected to the point that it stops growing.


 
If in hydro... (assuming it is not gonna get worse) you need to correct it right away... or the next day those leaves will be in rougher shape... irreversable shape..

Zarnon - good pics and desc... hopefully some newer ppl will catch a glimpse.


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## rami (Nov 23, 2006)

i dont think the curling or the wrinkles are early signs of over nuting...cuz i had these signs on my leaves before i started i nuting my plants..

i think these signs are heat stresss...cuz i get em only when i get my plants closer to the light..and my mh gets hot...but i just ignore them...they only show up on the newest set of leaves..when a new set comes out they dissappear off and the new leaves get em...weird...


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## newgreenthumb (Nov 23, 2006)

Lookin' mighty fine I must say.  :48:


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## KADE (Nov 23, 2006)

rami said:
			
		

> i dont think the curling or the wrinkles are early signs of over nuting...cuz i had these signs on my leaves before i started i nuting my plants..
> 
> i think these signs are heat stresss...cuz i get em only when i get my plants closer to the light..and my mh gets hot...but i just ignore them...they only show up on the newest set of leaves..when a new set comes out they dissappear off and the new leaves get em...weird...


 
I think they are... because it is what happens the day b4 the leaves burning off and my rooms ambient temp at canopy is 78*     There are many different things that sometimes cause the same symptoms tho...


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## parkingjoe (Nov 24, 2006)

hi zarnon dude long time no visit this forum.me that is

rofl

great healthy looking plants ya have there good luck with the grow

pkj


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## Zarnon (Nov 25, 2006)

Hey Parking Joe long time no see.  Thanks for the encouraging words. 

Hey Rami what's up?  Mmm... I'd say one is not exclusive of the other.  As Kade intimated, many things can cause this appearance,  but in my experience the most common is overnuting.

Everytime I have overnuted,  the leaves get dry, pebbly and coarse looking.  If I do not act,  then in a few days I get yellowing/browning.   

For heat I look at general heat (room temp) and focal heat (light).  It's not just the temp of the room but also how the plant looks.  If they're short and bushy with tons of leaves doubful it's heat stress.  If you get burns from a light it hits the top leaves with upward curling, yellowing and browning at the margins. 

There was once a guy on the old Overgrow that was growing in a room in africa (can't remember which country) but his temps ran in the 90's with a very high humidity.   His pics were a great example of heat stress.  Plants get tall and spindly; as if she were shrugging off her clothes in an effort to stay cool.

Running that light at night produces very stable temps;  The light I have is vented,  glassed and silver taped with a 306 cfu inline Elicent behind it. 

This is part of the backup temp/humidity control.  I have an aircon I run if I'm doing summer and I have a Fedder's dehumidifier when the plant mass starts filling the room,  but this is nice to run in the winter;  it works with the Co2 control as well.  There is another Elicent exhaust;  the air that's drawn in comes from the floor and vents through the roof.


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## rami (Nov 25, 2006)

so wat do u do to treat nute burns??..mine just got nute burned on ther first dose two days ago!..wat do u think i should do? flush them?


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## Zarnon (Nov 26, 2006)

Rami;   If you are getting nute burn then I def recommend flushing and backing off.  Try not to make too severe a change.  Keep track of your PPM so you get to know the sweet spot for your water, nutes and plants.

So yesterday I notice yellowing and nute deposits on the very immature/stunted one I've kept around.  Yesss!  Very easy to confuse with mg deficiency.  

She was just too immature to handle that increase while the others didn't get even a yella leaf on 'em. That feels good.


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## Zarnon (Nov 28, 2006)

......... and here are the rest at one week after the last group photo.

'Ol Yaller' did not make it.  No room at the Inn anyways,  hee hee...

I haven't done any training, just topping to keep the canopy even.  I'm at 16 inches all around , so I should be ready for 12/12 in a day or so.

Rami,  these are going at 40% nute str right now.  That seems to be acceptable at this stage.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Nov 28, 2006)

*Whats up Zarnon. Sorry to here that you had to take OL YALLER out back of the wood shed but sometimes these things happen. Look on the bright side man you have some very healthy young ladies getting ready for flower and i can't wait to see them buds. Keep up the great work man.  *


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## Zarnon (Nov 29, 2006)

Thanks TBG,  that means a lot given your experience and results.

Those fans are showing deep N deposits which I hope will bode well for the stretch to come.

I gotta get out my cloning chamber and do some clones b/c these suckas are one night from the start of flowering.


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## Zarnon (Dec 2, 2006)

Clones!!  

These are more backups when I do sexing but I may have a hard time letting go of them LOL... I'm thinking of building a veg room so I can let these little ones grow while I finish my flower.  

I run a different method than most.  It's this 'cut flower' method (aka water column method) I was taught.  I run a very high humidity for the first five-six days.  The main thing is not to let them wilt as that stresses them tremendously (that and letting them rehydrate,  then wilt,  then rehydrate again). 

BTW,  the temp is in the 80's but drops pretty fast once that top is off. 

When you cut the plant off from it's established nutrient supply it's very important to support these cuttings.   Think of it like Plant ICU.  They are already having enuf difficulties producing new roots.   

I do use a hormone prep... clone x or some gel stuff (can't go in the room now) and have no idea if it helps or not.


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## newgreenthumb (Dec 3, 2006)

I can't wait to see the finished project.  This is the stuff that keeps me going! :aok:


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## Zarnon (Dec 5, 2006)

Ok amigos,  a week into flower and got some great news .....

:yay: All 4 are females!!  :yay:

Looks like I could hit the Jack...POT.  :dancing::dancing::dancing::dancing:  I hopeIhopeIhope.... heh heh...

I've never run the table and am very stoked.  Anyone need a clone?  

Now I must be vigilant for hermies  :chuck:  Luckily this was not fem seed so I have less worries. 

With the flower light on it's harder to get the right color but photoshop helps, lol...

(Height at 2ft for tallest;  or you can see earlier pic and where they were in terms of radiator)

...on to training!!


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## newgreenthumb (Dec 5, 2006)

Congrats!!!  :yay: Sounds like its going to be a good winter for you my friend.  I am now hoping that I have all fems too. I hope to get some *green mojo* soon.  Fingers crossed and praying. :aok:


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## Witness (Dec 5, 2006)

Looking great. It's good to c ya all doing a great job. GG


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## Zarnon (Dec 5, 2006)

Funny thing is I will need a minimum of training.  I mean,  I will do some to keep the canopy even but usually I have 2 or 3 plants to fill  the space.  Once I had one LOL..

Soooooo I figure a little lateral movement,  but the current plant is just to leave most to grow into some nice fat colas.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Dec 6, 2006)

*Whats up Zarnon. Congrats on getting nothing but ladies. Something must be in the air man because our last grow we planted 5 seeds, 5 strains, 5 females.   Everything is looking great man keep it up. Can't wait to see those fat frosty colas. :aok: *


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## Zarnon (Dec 12, 2006)

*Day 14 Flower*

Greetings from the wet and wonderful NW!

A week later and 'about' at 2.5 feet except the tallest have already been tied down so I dunno what the 'true height' is... 

Flowers are coming in......mmmm....anyone else think that new flower scent smells like vanilla?  Really pleasant man.

The CO2 is on and at 1500 ppm...... vrrrrrrroooom.   I've been working with the temps and setting on the dehumdifier.   I think we can keep that air in there, which is the whole game.

Switched to flowering nutes day 10, at an EC slightly up at 400 but I'm still being conservativish.   These girlies have responded  best to low nutes and I've had to flush twice this grow because I was still learnin' about her (and still am!).

I took that third shot at a lower angle with a fluoro bulb and flash to show 'da stretch'!


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## Zarnon (Dec 13, 2006)

Man,  every freakin' grow I have one of those 'doh!' experiences, where I do something I really knew better not to do.

So,  my clones are not really living,  not really dying.  I had been doing the cut flower method which worked so well.  They all sprouted roots but were slowly wilting/turning yellow.

I had been giving them nutes at the usual strength for young'uns yet was watching them slowly 'fade away'.

Then about 2am one night it hit me;  I had been giving them the appropriate dose of nutes for seedlings. 

Basic dumb mistake!  I immediately got up and mixed up a 250 str canna veg/rhizo/superthrive mix and got it to 'em.

Man Maryjane,  you are one of the most forgiving plants I know! :heart: 

It was like giving someone lost in the desert a jug of water and a cold salad!    The gals literally began flowing green.  Too bad I did not take any pics,  they were great ones of nitrogen deficiency! LOL...(the yellow globally encompasses the whole leaf,  there's still some yellow to see).

Anyways,  two days after getting the canna here they are.  I wanted to make sure I was on the right track before posting my 'learning experience'.

Second pic from a few weeks ago.   I live about 15 minutes bicycle time from this river..... sigh....


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## Elephant Man (Dec 13, 2006)

Wow!  You got the river and the forest:aok: Ladies are looking really nice...thanks for the pics .


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Dec 13, 2006)

*Your jungle is coming right along Zarnon. I see them ladies are nice and healthy waiting to hold them big fat frosty buds. Great job man keep it up. *


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## Zarnon (Dec 15, 2006)

Man!!   I sweated it out last night!  Huge winds, power blowing out all over the city.... I went for a drive and two blocks away the power was out.   I had no way to get emergency power hooked up (wouldn't even know how as my little grow room has separate wiring this electrician did).

Ahhh so grateful we managed to make it through..  the last time my 'hood lost power it was out for five days!!


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## newgreenthumb (Dec 17, 2006)

Good to see you back up and running again! Also congrats on getting the full house of ladies! :aok:


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## Zarnon (Dec 19, 2006)

*Day 21 Flower*

The buds are coming along well.  No way are they going to be finished with flowering in a month but looking really healthy and progressing nicely (never believe the flowering times listed,  sorta like reading the MPG sticker on a new car).  

First pic is a section of the 'canopy' which I've keep in a concave pattern to match light falloff.  The training sticks come in soooo handy when I have to lift up a plant. I dunno how guys with a SCROG/SOG deal with things like pump failures/clogs/etc. 

I've made my own intermediate veg room.  It's very simple with a 150w fluro.  No worries about heat and the fluro is rated at 12,000 lumens but from what I've read puts out more like 10k.  That's plenty for this area though.   I'm looking at growing them no more than 12 inches before moving to the larger room.

The cab is just a HomeDePot special.  There was this huge thread on these on the old Overgrow...  90 bucks.  The back is made of cardboard so I've had a new piece of plywood cut.  The stuff to paint it with is *Kilz* which is white, and is both flame and mildew retardant.  There's a fan running in there and I will have a temp regulating fan,  but so far it's running 80 degrees and 40% humidity, so no big hurry.

The clones have been repotted in netpots (within those containers) using a soilless mix.  They should be fairly rootbound when I transplant to the hydro so hopefully little debris.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Dec 19, 2006)

*Everything is looking great Zarnon as always. I here about the times on strains. Last grow our AK-48 was to finish in 48 days and it took more like 54 or something. In the end the plants will tell ya when to pic we all know that.   Keep up the great work my friend. *


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## Zarnon (Dec 19, 2006)

"I shall pick no bud before its time"


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## Zarnon (Dec 21, 2006)

I gotta say the lack of traffic to this grow really makes me reevaluate what I'm doing here.   I mean,  I spent 2 hours formulating the last major post including pics .  

I don't need the 'attaboys'.  I was hoping for some sort of didactic learning experience.  But that does not appear to be on the horizon.

Anyways,  this is probably going to be my last grow journal unless I do some sort of personal blog;  too much time on this without enough interest.  Frankly, I do not have much interest in hearing me speak to myself.


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## Elephant Man (Dec 21, 2006)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> I gotta say the lack of traffic to this grow really makes me reevaluate what I'm doing here. I mean, I spent 2 hours formulating the last major post including pics .
> 
> I don't need the 'attaboys'. I was hoping for some sort of didactic learning experience. But that does not appear to be on the horizon.
> 
> Anyways, this is probably going to be my last grow journal unless I do some sort of personal blog; too much time on this without enough interest. Frankly, I do not have much interest in hearing me speak to myself.


 
I hear ya man...I guess you are just a guru ...I mean, I just learn from your posts...not much I can add..everything looks great!  Just think of it as leaving the info here for others to learn from, and I really hope this isn't your last journal...because it has been one of my favorites to follow.

edit: Just look at it this way brother, you are one of the master growers from overgrow, and now that it is gone, it is up to you to share what you learned from there...ya know?  I am still trying to hunt down a few of those guys


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## Zarnon (Dec 21, 2006)

Yeah,  it was a rough day yesterday in general.. it has frustrated me EM, but enuf useless bitching.....  Man I used to fume about all the 'know it alls' on OG that would jump in your grow and now I'm complaining about not enough comments LOL. ....

I love a good budshot,  don't get me wrong,  but I hope that I can also share new things I've learned and old things refined.  It's the whole impetus behind keeping a chronicle here. 

BTW,  to change the subject... I am going to do my next hydro with 100% cert organic nutes!  

http://www.biocanna.us/

EM, I thought of you when I read about their fermentation process.  Right now I'm using their BioBoost.  Very pricey at 30 bucks a 1/4 liter (which adds about 10bucks a week/res change).


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## Elephant Man (Dec 21, 2006)

I am right with ya brother on the 'journal replies' thing...I mean, look at my journal, over 2800 views and less than 10 people posting. I don't really care though, the information is there and who knows down the road who might grab it and use it. Besides, I always get a good chuckle when I go back and look at some of the silly stuff I posted , noobs can be funny.

Budshots are all good, but what I like to see are root shots . I grow a plant from the roots up so when I transplant I am always anxious to see the root formation and color. I also love to see a really old well cared for bonsai mother , really shows a grower's abilities.

I have heard really good things about the Canna line, I think you are going to enjoy that and hope you will at least put up a journal for me (pretty please ).

Fermentation...now your talking, basis behind compost, compost teas, and microbial farming. I know you might freak out to hear this, but I firmly believe you can go full cycle without a res change using bio-organics (or living organics, or microbial farming...whatever you want to call it ).

I would love to chat one day with ya more about it, I remember you mentioning you have your own forum? (pm always wecome)  At any rate, let me know before you go anywhere else, big fan here of your open mind and abilities .

Eman


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## Zarnon (Dec 21, 2006)

Here's a rootshot for ya.... when I used to use submersibles,  this is what would happen...


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## Elephant Man (Dec 21, 2006)

Now that is some 'root porn' right there:cool2: , great color, nice and hairy, looks very healthy.  Is that setup on a timer?  Some big TAG aero guys got really good results with 30 secs on and 3 min off.


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## parkingjoe (Dec 22, 2006)

here what ya saying zarnon dude.

i feel the same way sometimes lots of time uploading pics and writing the diary all to no avail or so it seems....


i was on cw for many years and shared info and loved it.

i made many friends worldwide and considered it a wealth of knowledge regarding growing my ****.

always got dome input for your diaries.

waffling now-


no offence to newbies im no newbie and im still learning everyday and probably always will be.

hey bet ya dont have spider mites like i do dude.

ps happy xmas and have a joint on me.

pkj


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## Zarnon (Dec 22, 2006)

Naw,  it was just very close to my Bday and holidays n' stuff .....

I used to run a timer but now just leave continous recirc.  I initially use regulators to moderate the flow.  Once the roots take up most of that container I keep 'er open all the way.  

I use cannazyme which really helps to break up dead root matter (always recommend some type of enzymatic additive to break down dead material.. very important).

ParkingJoe...bummer on the mites.. it's something I've always dreaded.  My little veg room is much more exposed to that.  Less of a prob in the winter tho...

I hope to run into some of you dudes sometimes.  I'm hoping to head to A'Dam sometime next year... maybe I'll see some of you there!


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## Hampster (Dec 23, 2006)

Hey what is a bonsai mother? I would all so like to mention that I love reading grow journals to follow a plant from start to end and to get the info from it. So I would hate to see some one stop with this sharing of info. Since I am new to the scene.


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## Zarnon (Dec 24, 2006)

Sounds like what it is Hamster.... a purposely bred/trained mother plant to take clones from.  I have never kept a motherplant so I dunno (I get much more than I could smoke 24/7 from these grows and have never had the need LOL)...

Ok........ clone help....!

I am growing in a soilless mix which I've never done.  The hydro store dudes (which have never failed to give me terrible advice) told me I should be watering twice a day..  So of course they looked terrible.. once I backed off they seem to have perked up.  I also cracked the door a bit which brought the room temp from 84 to 78.

I still have one that's really droopy though... can't figure it out.  Some are a little stretchy and one has stayed like a bonsai.  

And for my fellow Gnome Elephant Man,  a rootshot for thee!  Think I can keep 'em in those netpots another three-four weeks?  LOL... That's the goal!

My buddy is coming over after xmas and gonna take a look.  I'll give you his thoughts.


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## Elephant Man (Dec 24, 2006)

A couple are droopy but they don't look that bad.  Great color and leaf shape.

Is that a pre-mix soiless?

Thanks for the root shot, seen the latest one in my journal? 

I've seen HGB grow a 3' plant in a tablespoon of soil so sure it's possible .

Have a great holiday my gnome brethren .


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## Zarnon (Dec 26, 2006)

*Day 28 flower*

The soil is premix,  a pic is on the page 3 of this grow.

Some of the others are droopy after I left for a full day... maybe they have too little water? Argh...  

I go by weight too and this coco stuff seems to dry out fairly quickly.   I can't wait till I can get them in hydro LOL...


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## sanchez (Dec 26, 2006)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> I gotta say the lack of traffic to this grow really makes me reevaluate what I'm doing here.   I mean,  I spent 2 hours formulating the last major post including pics .
> 
> I don't need the 'attaboys'.  I was hoping for some sort of didactic learning experience.  But that does not appear to be on the horizon.
> 
> Anyways,  this is probably going to be my last grow journal unless I do some sort of personal blog;  too much time on this without enough interest.  Frankly, I do not have much interest in hearing me speak to myself.



dude, reading your journal is making me learn alot so keep the posts coming.  i'm sending loads of good karma your way, and that **** works whether you believe it or not .  

if you want some sort cross-section learning exprience check out my high-tech grow here: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8115 

it seems however you're slightly more advanced than I am, but thought to put it out there for you to check out anyways.  congrats on the full house of ladies, can't wait to see 'em full of sparkling buds!


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## Elephant Man (Dec 26, 2006)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> The soil is premix, a pic is on the page 3 of this grow.
> 
> Some of the others are droopy after I left for a full day... maybe they have too little water? Argh...
> 
> I go by weight too and this coco stuff seems to dry out fairly quickly. I can't wait till I can get them in hydro LOL...


 
Yeah, I looked for the soilmix twice now and still can't find it .  Is it coco coir?  Checked the biocanna site and just saw nutes...am I missing something?

Drying out fast sounds pretty good with my very low RH.  Even the very 'airy' mixes I make take way to long to dry for my taste.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Dec 27, 2006)

*As always Zarnon everything is looking great.  *


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## Zarnon (Dec 27, 2006)

"Tell me again about the Wizard's Staves grandpa"  She tugged at my arm expectantly.  

I sighed "Child,  why do you want to hear that story yet again?".
"Just.  Tell meeeeeeeeeee, pleeeease?" 

"Allright",  as I rolled my eyes and grumpily settled  into the bedside chair.

"The Wizard's Staves are said to be called by the Druids of Mere in times of great need.  They can only be called to heal the pain and suffering of the land.  Each staff (correctly created I might add) is made from and draws power from the land itself.  

One is powerful... while the combination is enough to shake the foundations of the God's themselves!"

"And when will the Wizard's Staves be called back to us Grandpa?"

"Child,  some say they are already here..."


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## Zarnon (Dec 27, 2006)

Hey Sanchez what's up? Well,  feel free to chime in... we're all learning.

EM!!  Dude.......... it's on page three,  like the middle, in that group of photos.  I took a pic of the BAG not the soil itself,  so that might be throwing you off m8.

I had 3/4 buckets 'fail' in that those roots ripped off the filters and started clogging the pumps.  The last fixative I tried was Marine Grade Sealant and while it was stronger,  the roots were stronger still.   

Additives.  Very few for flowering.  I put in the pk 13/14 3-4 weeks before harvest.  I also regularly use bananamana.   Last time I used Floralicious which was very sedimenty and I'm not sure added anything.

This time I'm using the BioCanna additive Bioboost;  which is fermented and bioactive and that's about all I know about it.  Oh yeah,  as Sam Jackson would say "It's expensive as Hey-all!". 

(only out in 1/4 liter right now as far as I can tell)


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## Elephant Man (Dec 27, 2006)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> Hey Sanchez what's up? Well, feel free to chime in... we're all learning.
> 
> EM!! Dude.......... it's on page three, like the middle, in that group of photos. I took a pic of the BAG not the soil itself, so that might be throwing you off m8.
> 
> ...


 
Sorry, I see it now...100% coir I guess.

Have you tried marine epoxy putty?  Comes in a tube of putty that you mix be kneading with your hands...dries hard as steel in like 20 mins. even underwater .


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## Zarnon (Dec 27, 2006)

It's a mixture of coco, perlite, pumice and worm casings.  Seems to work better than vermic/perlite I've used in the distant past.

I have seen the Marine Epoxy putty but was worried how it might interact with plants?


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## Elephant Man (Dec 27, 2006)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> It's a mixture of coco, perlite, pumice and worm casings. Seems to work better than vermic/perlite I've used in the distant past.
> 
> I have seen the Marine Epoxy putty but was worried how it might interact with plants?


 
Stuff I bought at Ace hardware said 'aquarium safe'.  Should be good yes?


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## Zarnon (Jan 1, 2007)

Hmmmmmmmm.... do I have a problem?

If you look up at that pic on the bottom left (above)  the leaves close to the buds are turning yellow but only on one plant and they're all on the same resevoir.

The older leaves or leaves not associated with buds on the affected plant are green and not turning yellow or wilting.  The yellowing is most prominent at the base of the leaf and includes some browning. 

This is not like nute burn or overwatering.  This plant has two airstones, great waterflow,  and normal waterlevels.   The other three show no sign of this.

I'm not sure if this is a variant,  some type of local deficiency,  disease or what?   I'm having my friend over who has seen everything.  I'm hoping he can give me some clues (including if it's anything to worry about).


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## Elephant Man (Jan 1, 2007)

That does sound odd doesn't it?  I understood the plant will save the solars around the buds at all cost.  If it is some weird disease or something, perhaps some Hydrogaurd or SM90 might help?  Can't hurt.

Let us know if it gets worse.  If you wanna post a pic and your variables, I can ask some gurus I know.


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## Zarnon (Jan 2, 2007)

*Day 35 flower*

Well, now I'm worried.

The other plants are still doing fine,  but the yellowing has extended in that one. 

After a long process of elimination....here's what it is.  I think this is a true case of Magnesium deficiency brought on by the rapid flowering of this particular plant.  The changes I see on the larger leaves really look like the 'interval chlorosis' you read about.

So what I did was do a foliar application to this plant using Mineral Matrix.  I like MM b/c it's an organic mineral application that contains a lot of trace minerals.  I do not like epsom salts as they will raise  your ec to a huge degree (can more than double it ).  I think the doses I got were for soil not adjusted for hydro, but once was enough for me!

I dosed my nute tank too.  I put one-two drops per gallon.  

Ok, so the top two pics are of the one affected.  You can see how the leaves are different (yellow and browning at base, then slight new changes on the older ones).   Compare it to the others which are rich green and slick.  

The rest are going great guns.  One is four inches on her top colas already!


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## parkingjoe (Jan 2, 2007)

they are amazing zarnon dude dunno about nute probs you know more than me on that score but one thing i do know is boost accerator works wonders on my second grow using it and like ya said it is expensive **** dude


ps dem plants are looking great.


pkj


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## Zarnon (Jan 2, 2007)

Thanks,  for the compliments,  although with that one I am hoping I can help her out.  

*Previous Harvest(s) Nug Review...*

I don't have the selection of TBG,  but do have abundance of  Kali Mist and Power Plant (PP from Spring).  

They are nice complements to one a nother...very different in terms of taste and effect.  

The Kali is dark and very very resiny/perfumy but the high is up in the head.  It's the type of weed I smoke when I'm burnt out!  LOL..  It is very 'up',  someone called it 'meth weed' in a review.. I'd agree.  The one drawback is that it is the only weed I've ever smoked that could accentuate anxiety.  I do not smoke it when I am really stressed out (but as a daytime or anytime else... yeah!  It was voted 'Herb you'd most likely grow as your own stash' on OG).

I have read that Kali is not a big producer and would have to disagree!  Two grows and she has always produced HUGE nugs.  You just have to expect a really long flower.  She's a sativa through and through after all! 

The Power Plant looks and smells sweet and innocent! LOL... then five minutes later your eyes are swelled up,  you're stoned off your BLEEP and wondering where your car keys are  ...  The PowerPlant is not couch lock per se, but do not smoke it if you have a lot to do.  It's easy to just surf the net,  play a game, etc.. do nothing all day herb LOL...

(I need much brighter lighting... oh well.. next time!)


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Jan 2, 2007)

*Whats going on Zarnon my friend. :aok: Bummer about the plant problems but i think we all get them once in a while but it sounds like you might have it fixed. The rest of the ladies are looking great mang. Nothing like watching the ladies pack on the frost.   Man those dry bud shots look killer. How is the smoke? Never had Kali Mist before.   Pack a bong hit for me. :bong1: Anyway keep up the great work. *


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## Zarnon (Jan 2, 2007)

TBG!!  Thanks bro... hey I fleshed out the reviews of the Kali and Power plant next to their pics on the previous page.  Made more sense.  Check it out and see if it's helpful.

RE:  Unknown problems.  Well, if I had any advice to give on diagnosing an unknown it would be;  rule out dumb mistakes (pump turned off,  airstone detached, etc), check for hidden problems (roots), make your decision for rational reasons,  do only one thing at a time and and stick with it for awhile.   Whew!

So,  that's my gameplan mang!  That foliar should kick in pretty quick.  Like giving an IV.  I should see some reversal by day three.  I may give her another dose just to be sure.


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## WubDaBuds (Jan 2, 2007)

*Wow Zarnon... LOOKING GOOD!

Great grow m8... keep up the good work.*


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Jan 3, 2007)

*Whats up Zarnon. I must have went right past your smoke reports on the Kali Mist and Power Plant.   After reading them we might have to give them both a shot down the road. Very nice mang very nice indeed. :aok: *


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## Zarnon (Jan 3, 2007)

Tracking the Wild Unknown

Here is a good comparison between Nitrogen deficiency and what I'm calling 'the unknown'. 

The first photo is Nitrogen def.  In flowering this is normal and it will progress as flowering continues.  (rapid or global loss is not a good thing, nor is getting a bunch in veg).

See how the loss of color is in the veins and midrib (inner part) and it's on the oldest (fan) leaves. 

Now the next is what is going on in this one plant.  Here you see almost the opposite where the loss of color affects the blade and the newest leaves. 

I'm still not sure it's Mg. Why?  Because Mg and Nitrogen are both translocatable, meaning the plant can draw on them (and does) from the resevoir (fan) leaves in times of crisis.  So the older leaves get hit first.

Now,  non-translocatable elements DO affect the youngest leaves first.  The most common culprits being iron and sulfur.   So,  the Mineral Matrix may 'work' but for different reasons than I originally thought (it has alla them).

I am still holding to a deficiency because it's affecting the one that's growing the fastest (probably has tripled her bud mass in a week) and everything else appears solid. 

Anyone want to add in their thoughts,  feel free.


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## KADE (Jan 3, 2007)

Middle one sometimes show like that when plants start to nute burn.


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## Zarnon (Jan 4, 2007)

Kade, I always think nute burn,  for sure,  but here is the part that doesn't fit -- this particular plant is growing 2 to 2.5 times _faster _than the others.  I've never seen nute burn do anything but either slow down or stop my grow.  That's why I'm thinking deficiency vs overdose.

Here's a side by side I took very recently with the 'affected' plant vs. one of the 'healthy ones'.  Keep in mind the other three do not show any signs of deficiency, they look nice and waxy like I like (see earlier pics).


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## night501 (Jan 4, 2007)

i just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to work this thread.
as a novice grower its hard to diagnose problems and how to correct them but the way you did it with the pics and comparisons its like pot growing for dummies.
i think i may have learned more in this thread than just about any other one i have read. 
im currently growing in soil but just got my very first hydro setup today.
i got the waterfarm complete setup from general hydroponics. i figured since i didnt know that much about growing hydro i would buy my first setup and after i got an understanding of what and why it dose what it dose i could build my own in the future.
it came with 3 diffrent types of nutrients floragrow (2-1-6), flora bloom(0-5-4), and floramicro(5-0-1).
not sure if these nutes are worth using or not. 
here are some pics


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## Zarnon (Jan 4, 2007)

Hey Night... thanks for coming and the compliments.   I really try to teach what I know. I learn a lot myself each grow.  

Specifics about soil I cannot give,  but I can def speak to those waterfarms.  They rule dude.  You can make your own but if you got a kit that's cool.  GH makes them and they are a solid company.

I've never used GH nutes but heard they are good.  Ratios are tough because I'm not sure what is the optimal one for MJ.  Canna is 5-3-8 in veg... which is the same as 2.5-1.5-4 (to compare better with the Floragrow).  Who's to say who's is better?  I don't get hung up too much on that b/c there's sooo many other elements to optimize. 

The only worrisome thing is the florabloom appears to have no N in it at all!  I would def run the floragrow until you have fully sexed your plants (10 days-2 weeks into flower).  They need N for that stretch.  Does the flora micro go with the florabloom?

I recc PH buffered nutes.  Except when your nute strength is really low (like seedlings) you won't have to adjust the ph at all.

I would also recommend some Superthrive (and only use 1 drop per freakin' gallon like it says!), and NOT being tempted by a lot of crap online or at the hydro store.  Those dudes will sell you ANYTHING (for my experience for the most part).  

If those GH do not have minerals including trace,  start the mineral matrix 1-3 drops gallon after 2 weeks.  Plants need 13 to grow and they need 'em all. 

Make sure you toss those weak airstones that came with the WF (unless they've changed) and put in some nice monsters (Six inches or longer will keep the ladies happy -- at least in the plant world LOL).  You will probably burn out the pump with a longer stone so you will probably have to get a new one.  I recommend going to somewhere like

www.marinedepot.com

and looking through their airpumps.  I have a pic of mine on one of these threads.    Get a sturdy four outlet one for 50-70 bucks and you won't regret it.  You do not want mature roots sitting in the bottom of a WF with a burnt out pump at 11pm. 

Remember you are going to have problems just like all of us have had them.  Plants are like people.  Their probs don't always present like the textbook says they should. But you can build a solid knowledge base to guide your decision.

RE: Unknown problem.  I don't want to engage in wishful thinking but it seems already the leaves are coming back.  

I'll wait a few days. Changes and plant health are like a big boat... it's not going to turn around on a dime and will probably go forward a ways before making the turn (for hydro think TugBoat, soil think Ocean Liner LOL)


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## night501 (Jan 4, 2007)

well according to the booklets that came with it the flora micro is sapposed to be used with both bloom and grow.
oddly enough i didnt get any airstones. but thats ok there is a new hydro shop that opened just 2 blocks away (i have a new hang-out). was in there yesterday and i think im going to spring for a magic wand. by the way thanks for the quick responce. thats why i like your thread you seam to always be watching. just finished assembling everything.... damn i could have built this but the setup they sent is perty nice. i see what you said about the pump burning out . it looks cheap. thats ok i have 6 100 gal. aquariums set up and i think i have a few extra pumps.


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## Zarnon (Jan 4, 2007)

You should be able to thread an airhose through the water level indicator (it will take a bend around those fittings but it will go).  Then you attach your stone to that.



> by the way thanks for the quick responce. thats why i like your thread you seam to always be watching



Yeah,  it's raining outside and I'm on vacation.... boo hoo!  I can't go anywhere because of my girlz!  Sooooo it's RPG and Internet I guess LOL...  

Yeah,  def keep a few spare pumps around.  Losing O2 when those roots are sitting in water is a matter of hours before death sets in.  Hydro you have to be on it,  but you will have many days where you just check the water/air,  check the res and you're done.


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## caabca (Jan 4, 2007)

I'm new to growing, but here's a thought...if the plant is producing 2-2.5x faster...is that really a "problem" you want to fix? Just thought I'd throw that out there...if it is..please elaborate...


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## Zarnon (Jan 5, 2007)

No caaba! I love it!  It's only a problem insofar as she has developed nutrient deficits as a result. She can grow as fast as she wants as long as she doesn't kill herself in the process!  I could try to mess with growth rate but you're right,  that'd be crazy.  The foliar feed and mineral supplements are to help  support her along her way.  

This grow has had such different phenotypes in terms of growth rate,  nutrient needs etc it makes me wonder if I got the same type of seed.


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## parkingjoe (Jan 5, 2007)

hi zarnon are you going to be doing clones   as seeds are really imho like pissing into the wind 


waste of time done hundreds of the bastards feminised ones the whole lot and so much 'differance' in same seeds out of same packet supossedly from same plant 


been taken for a fool many a time never again 


having said that   

worth taking a clone or tow and seeing if the plants walk the walk if so you have mummies to clone from 


just an idea either way looking swell:tokie: 

pkj


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## Zarnon (Jan 10, 2007)

No dude,  I am a total lover of seeds.

Screw fem seeds dude...I used them once,  never more.

But I love planting (hopefully) high quality seed and seeing what comes out.  I get enough quantity to meet all my needs, my best friend's needs,  and more.. so I am not worried about yield.

This grow has yielded a pretty variant set of phenos... I am not sure any one is 'bad' tho... 

Anyways.. I am ok with clones but having grown them and compared to the mother I think they are a step down in quality.  I have popped clones in the same exact enviro,  same exact everything and still cannot replicate the 'magic' of that seeded herb.

Anyways,  this is a very subjective subject so I'll leave 'er for now.  Just my experience.


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## Zarnon (Jan 10, 2007)

*Day 42 Flower*

So I things are going well,  although the freakin phenotypes on these mothers are very different.

Consider the size of the colas right vs the left (1st pic).  The buds on the right are shaping up to be small Pineapple sized!! Those buds are like my 'Tebow' to the rest.  These particular buds smell like skunk!  I have never smelt something that was truly skunky/stinky,  but this stuff really makes you think of roadkill. :huh:  I am not sure this is a goal to shoot for LOL.  

The other three range from fruity to piney.

NUTE PROB UPDATE: The back left plant with the browning/yellowing new leaves is turning around.   You can see the diff between the healthy and deficient leaves (second pic).

Last pic,  what I call my 'PrizeWinner' (back right).  This one looks like the quintessential AK-47.  She has put out so much early resin (the color corrected then monochromed filter pic loses some of that IMHO).   She is not the biggest,  but I think this is going to be the bud I say

"I keep for myself... my precioussssssssssssssss"


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## caabca (Jan 10, 2007)

wow, your grow is looking awesome! the right side is producing way faster..any idea why? the effort you must put in is truely impressive...keep the knowledge flowing..


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## Zarnon (Jan 10, 2007)

Caabca;



> right side is producing way faster..any idea why?



The right side is not growing faster than the left;  just the front right plant.  The back right plant is my 'prizewinner' which may be the lowest yielder of this bunch.

So, to explain variance like this in a nutshell... (breath)

If everything in your environment is equal including having the plants on a common nutrient source,  then your culprit is genetics.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Jan 10, 2007)

*Whats up Zarnon. Glad to here your sick lady is coming around. Nothing worse than watching a beautiful plant turn funky ya know. As always my friend everything is looking great.  *


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## Zarnon (Jan 10, 2007)

Yeah dude,  it is hard to watch, although I make sure I have an idea what the pattern is before 'fixing' anything.  I have learned not to do anything impulsive time and time again.

I had never had a plant get deficient on the Canna before.   It has all the trace minerals and such.  She just needed more than the others.

I'm still doing a foliar mineral about every three days and they're all getting 1 drop/gal of mineral matrix.


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## Zarnon (Jan 11, 2007)

Wait....... caabaca...... you did make me look at those enthusiastic buds again, and I think there IS an environmental discrepancy.

The 'heavy nute user' (left rear) and the super grower (right front) both have double the airstones of the others!   

These two had the additional one I drop through the top when the rootmass gets thick.   Could this extra O2 at this point be contributing to the relative increase in growth?

It could not all be that because of how differently these two plants are presenting.  The back one has nute def.  the front one , none.    The configuration of flowers and stage of growth are different for both as well. 

Anyways,  the degree that xtra stone is contributing is debatable,  but just wanted to mention it (BTW, there is no downside to using 2 vs. 1 stone).


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## caabca (Jan 11, 2007)

so maybe i shouldn't have deleted that last post eh? haha oh well..glad to see there might be an explaination...maybe double the airstones in all of them next time..or get EM to do an experiment! he is the "mad scientist"..


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## Ravishing_68 (Jan 12, 2007)

Zarnon, Loving watching your grow.  I have some AK-48 seeds that I'll probably pop in next fall.  My NLXBB is doing well for all my flub-ups with the nutes ( see picture below, leaves have "bumps" on them and some burn).  This being my first grow to make it to flowering.  I have four ladies, and like yours, two are definitely doing better than the other two but I think that is because I didn't really consider I would have 4 plants in my caddy and perhaps would be better with two that have been topped a couple of times.  

My question is... it seems you have such distinction between each bud, are you trimming or pruning?  I have not done either, just taken the leaves that are falling off, probably due to lack of light, they are so smashed in the caddy... I have heard both, people that like to prune thinking it focuses the plant on the buds, and others that believe to leave them alone and let nature take it's course.

I enjoy watching your journal to give me an idea of where mine should be in two weeks   (though I know mine won't be as good)  Major good luck mojo coming your way dude! ~ Rav


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## parkingjoe (Jan 13, 2007)

I have heard both, people that like to prune thinking it focuses the plant on the buds, and others that believe to leave them alone and let nature take it's course.


ive done both ways and believe me leave the leaves alone for photosynehesis.that is so badly spelt i cannot believe it myself but stoned badly 

anyway my last grow exceeded everyuthing ive ever done and i leaft leaves in situ unless they were dead and fell off themselves................


STONed


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## Zarnon (Jan 15, 2007)

Ravishing!  Hola,  welcome n' all that. 

*Separation - Zarnon's approach*

I get good separation primarily because of training sticks and only secondarily from leafing.   Leafing is something that probably exists already.  But it came to me as I was working in my outdoor garden, training and leafing a Dwarf Weeping ***** Willow I have been working on for the last 2 years.   

I amend the above by also stating I was instructed how to do this by a master gardener who did my landscaping. 

*My rationale behind leafing*

I disagree about not removing very select and few  leaves.  I am not talking about the large fans but the smaller leaves much higher in the canopy.  

If you properly separate by training you are not going to have to do much of this.  Only take off leaves that are directly blocking a canopy bud.  This is not an indiscriminate hack of the leaves to 'divert' energy to the plant.  I'd say I take 2-3 leaves off per week per plant on average.  

It's a matter of doing something with a coherent purpose rather than picking this or that technique.   I would never do a prune or leaf without training them first.  Separate,  then see where the light is blocked.  

A good diagnonal shot of the buds/leaves posted previously.  There's still a few left.  

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=14653&d=1167755732

*Pruning*

I am a very minor pruner.  I have seen pics of people who literally hack their plants to shreds.  Now that is major trauma!

I know some people who grow flowers for comp do heavy pruning,  but they are usu going for that one 'prizewinner'.   I want good AND plenty!

I cut off what I term the 'loser' branches.  These are the ones that have no chance to make it to light whatsoever.  I cut off much less branches than I leaf.   I'd say total of one to three small branches per plant per _grow_. 

While I love the colas,  I am amazed at how the 'underbud' adds up each time (as long as the top has light).  

*re: airstones*

caaba,  leave those thoughts up!   Many people were probably wondering the same thing.  I instantly remembered your post when I was thinking of those double airstones. 

Water can only hold so much O2 though (saturation point).   The way I look at it,  there is no 'overkill' here.   Once water's reached it's sat,  it stays that way.  However,  nicely oxygenated water is faaaar better than under, fer sure!

Still tilting towards genetics,  just b/c these 4 plants are so freakin' different!  None of them look terrible but makes you wonder about the pheno of this plant or somone screwed up at the seed co.

*Clone Update!*

After all,  I haven't mentioned them for awhile.  Stuck 'em under a 125w fluoro,  hand watered 'em.  No temp control (although with the door cracked it's right at 80),   two fans (neither an exhaust just blowin' around), and a lowly cuppa water to help keep the humidity up.  

About as low tech as it gets indoor LOL...  It's like I went from a Condo in NYC to 'Survivor Closet Edition'.


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## Zarnon (Jan 16, 2007)

Less talk,  more pics!! 

Another week a little fatter.   14 gal/wk of water, but slowing down.   The resin fairy is starting to see the rest.  

The clones I decided to give away.  The very encrusted one is going to become a clone mother and I'll get back some later.  The other four are going to a local group for cancer survivors. 

I had to go in there one day multiple times because of how cold it got.  I used a green light the whole time,  so I am hoping that was enough.

(pics:  left to right:   rear left,  rear right,  2 pics - left front,  last b/w is right front).


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## Elephant Man (Jan 16, 2007)

Gave your clones away?  Whatcha thinking about doing next?


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## Zarnon (Jan 16, 2007)

Elephant Man said:
			
		

> Gave your clones away? Whatcha thinking about doing next?


 
Ummmmmmmm.. gonna chill on the production for awhile like I did last time.  

I dunno how you guys smoke all your herb.  I have enuf to continue smoking heavily every day with two varietals for the next year -- in reserve!  LOL   That's after giving a bunch away,  getting everone liberally stoned (I am the "Stone Mother" for about 4 or 5 peeps) and making hash out of three jars due to mold (from storage).

In about 3 weeks I'll have three varietals.  I trust this guy to give me clones of my fav whenever I want to start up again.  

I'm looking at Summer or Fall this year or whenever the bug bites me again to start but now I'm in no hurry.  I want to do a true purple varietal (Strawberry Cough?) and something else really exotic.


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## Elephant Man (Jan 16, 2007)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> Ummmmmmmm.. gonna chill on the production for awhile like I did last time.
> 
> I dunno how you guys smoke all your herb. I have enuf to continue smoking heavily every day with two varietals for the next year already! LOL That's after giving a bunch away, getting everone liberally stoned (I am the "Stone Mother" for about 4 or 5 peeps) and making hash out of three jars due to mold (from storage).
> 
> ...


 
Kinda thought you might say that...wishful thinking on my part.    I will most likely be shutting down before the summer too, temps too high to deal with here...


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## Ravishing_68 (Jan 16, 2007)

*Zarnon:*

*My rationale behind leafing

*I disagree about not removing very select and few leaves. I am not talking about the large fans but the smaller leaves much higher in the canopy. 

If you properly separate by training you are not going to have to do much of this. Only take off leaves that are directly blocking a canopy bud. This is not an indiscriminate hack of the leaves to 'divert' energy to the plant. I'd say I take 2-3 leaves off per week per plant on average. 

It's a matter of doing something with a coherent purpose rather than picking this or that technique. I would never do a prune or leaf without training them first. Separate, then see where the light is blocked. 

ok, so can you give me a better idea of "training" and "training sticks"?  When my plants first started they were close and compact but as they took off in veg stage they began to space 2-3 inches between branches.  Then in the flowering stage they have gotten thick on top, making them pretty top heavy, luckily they are in a box with mylar walls and they lean on them.  The part where they have turned thick with bud and leaves is what you call a "canopy"? I attached a pic of one of my buds, would you clip the leaves?


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## Zarnon (Jan 17, 2007)

Awwwwww EM... That was a nice statement!  You are so nice!

Ravishing; Ok,  if you look at my earlier grow (in the link) I have some pics of those sticks and I included another pic. 

They are basically dowels glued into 2x2 wooden bases and then I hold them up by using weights at the bases. 

I use them to separate the branches using string with bent paperclips tied to them.  I clip the string to the dowels.  

I don't think any of those leaves you outlined are ones I'd remove.  The criteria is the leaf has to block light to another bud after you've separated it.  If I can move a bud out of the way or another into the light without cutting I do.  The leaves that are tite against the bud I generally don't touch.  

When I do a 'leaf' again I'll show you a pictoral example but you'll get it very fast.  I know I said canopy so I probably confused things.  Think a little lower w/ leaves below main colas but blocking secondary sidebranches.  

It's the leaves that 'stick out' you want to cut.  If it doesn't block anything,  leaf it be.  (Get it?  *drum and cymbal sound* Thank you!  I'll be here all night!)

I want to emphasize the 'light hand' approach.   I went in tonight and removed a single leaf.  The first one I've taken off in two weeks.   If you've done the separation correctly you may remove 5-6 in a grow like mine at the max grow rate then drop to my current level later in the grow.

BTW,  if you are following the generally accepted definition for canopy; 'the continuous cover formed by tree crowns in a forest.'  Then I've led you astray with my definition.   I (incorrectly) define my canopy as the covering leaf mass below the outcropping main colas (in other words the canopy of leaves,  the crowns from pot do not account for much covering).


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## Zarnon (Jan 17, 2007)

*Ravishing's Leaf Problem:*  Hard to tell b/c of the yellow the flowering light puts on them and I gotta know the history.   

A sick plant template would look something like this;

FIRST,  check environment.  

Have you checked all these environmental factors,  temp,  humidity?  How are the roots (if you can look).  Have you checked closely for signs of infestation (underside of leaves and interstices?)

SECOND, check recent changes. Have you made any recent changes to the environment including nutes?

Keep this in mind when you move on to this checklist;

Which leaves are affected?  (newest,  oldest,  all)  be careful and think back how it started before saying all!
Where are the leaves affected (interior, exterior,  global) again, think how it started.
Do you have browning? (y/n)
For yes,  what is the pattern (tips,  interior,  irregular)  For global browning see: "How to start a new plant"  
If you have multiple plants getting the same nutes;  Are all plants affected?

This could be reordered a bit and just off the top of my head,  but it goes along with the way I approach plant problems.  There are accomplished growers like TBG,  StoneyBud, Elephant Man, and Kade who could add their thoughts but it's a good start. 

Also,  plants,  like people are unpredictable.  While there are patterns,  keep in mind there is no cookbook to this. 

I know it sounds complicated,  but it will be come intuitive with correct guidance and experience.

Here's an example of how to line it up after done;

Given you have a reasonable enviro (temps from 75-85 w/ humidity 40-50% on avg)  AND you have no loss of oxy to roots;

Overnuting:  Public enemy number one.  Pattern:  Hits older leaves first, but if severe may be global.   Leaves:  Hits interior.  I think of a river giving up its sludge.  You'll see browning also at the interior of the leaf but will also hit tips.  EARLY SIGN:  Drying of the leaves and then curling.  

This guy did a whole topic on overnuting w/ pics here 

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6635&page=2

BTW,  a brief shout out for most overhyped nute deficiency:

Mag!  I don't think I've ever seen this.  Most commercial preparations geared for MJ growth have this covered.  

From what I've read;  Will affect oldest leaves first,  hits exterior (interval chlorosis), w/ curling.

There's sooooooo much more,  but doing a nute guide correctly is too much for my addled brain to handle tonight.


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## Zarnon (Jan 19, 2007)

*I break with Teacher, or 'Did I get Hermed?'*

Hola... well,  had a 'sort of' surprise.  The guy that's been advising me came over and instantly latched onto this 'weirdling' flower I've been noticing for awhile.  It's a stunty little thing with very twisted leaves and flowers that never really grew.  

"That's a *male flower *dude"  Yoiks!  My heart froze.  

But then I thought about it for a little bit....things just didn't add up.   I cut the flower out (pic). I couldn't see the 'balls' but he said they were there.  

Dude picked apart a few small vegetative bits that may have been seeds and advised me to cut my grow. ... I dunno...  We are friendly disagreeing on this.

I'm no gambler but I think there are only females in this room and we're goin all the way to harvest Bay-BAY! :banana:  Here's my reasons why:

*1  That flower has been open at _least_ three weeks. I took three sample buds, one right below the 'male', dried them (preview smoke report: very piney!) w/ NO seeds whatsoever.   

*2 There has been no massive pistil die off.   I just cannot believe there are so many immature to mature white pistils, not like my experience with a hermed crop.

*3 No other flowers that look male anywhere.

*4 Last point to do w/ how the flowers present.  Female flowers are on a raceme (right on or directly off the stem) while male flowers are on a panicle.   Here is a link to some pics which explain it better than I do. 

Females are on Racemes:  http://www.answers.com/topic/raceme
Males are on Panicles: http://www.answers.com/topic/panicle


Read all about plant sexual types here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plant_sexuality
This has the better section on description of pot sex:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cannabis

Check out the pic of the 'male' flower (below).  What's your opinion? 

*Current Plan:*  2 of the plants are more mature than the others and on a one week flush w/ bananamana and bioboost.  The other two are getting one more week of growth and then going on a one week molasses flush!  ;D (Recipe:  one tablespoon unsulphured molasses/gal)


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## Zarnon (Jan 25, 2007)

Argh.....

Unrelated screwup number 10r5-a

You know,  sometimes I feel like I've made every mistake and then some.  This is a doozy.  I haven't even posted because I'm so bummed.

Well, it has to do with long term storage and these stupid little moisture pellets.  I thought it would be a wise idea to put just one in per mason jar to keep it from overly drying out.

WRONG!  Just a wrong freakin' choice.  It was too moist and all the stuff got really 'musty' smelling.  I can't see any mold,  and the high is preserved,  but the taste is totally harshed.  I dried it out fully which helped somewhat but it's not that top notch taste.  I did it to a LOT of herb and I'm very bummed.  My only consolation is that a stash was inaccessible and by luck prevented me from screwing that up.

The only thing that's pulled me out of my funk is harvest of 1/2 AK47 is today and I should have pics.   I'm really thinking of pulling off one more grow of something else and giving all this bud away or hashing it.  

I'm going to check out the seed co TBG recommended.  If I do another it will be a purple.


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## Zarnon (Jan 26, 2007)

Well,  took down two last night.  Others 2 getting another week.   Osh...tired.  I got more than I thought given size.

The 'prizewinner'  wouldn't stand on her own,  but I got somecloseups on a turkey platter (3,4th pic).  Those buds appear really dense, the med sized buds were bending the branches.


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## chezidek (Jan 26, 2007)

ooohhh beautiful buds!!!


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Jan 27, 2007)

*Whats up Zarnon. Man it looks like a damn fine harvest with more to come. Great job my friend great job. :aok: *


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## GreenDayGirl (Jan 27, 2007)

Hey Zarnon, whats up? Yummy! You always could make me drool...anyhow. I too ended up with one of those "make your heart stop" little yellow flowers. On the stalk and opened. So I moved everyone out, cleaned up, scrubed the walls etc... So guess what I found last night? Over a month later?! Yep....can I say ouch! :cry: On a lighter note, how was your vacation to the South American jungle? (lol)


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## Zarnon (Jan 27, 2007)

GDG!  You found a seed?  Or a ton of em?  Bummer!  You had the worst luck as I recall.  Maybe you need a brown mojo exorcism or sumtin?  :beatnik:  

Well,  I pretty confident (overconfident maybe?) this ain't that.  I started that 'prizewinna' clone in flower I'm so sure.   If I had the digs I'd make this one a clone mother and breed her... but no such luck.  

Sux b/c I was going to give these away.  I've ordered new seeds and _was_ going to do a Barney's Breakfast Bar and Dutch Passion strain :cry:  But I couldn't let that killa clone go to waste!!

I had a good time in S America.  It's a great chance to speak Spanish.  No military pulling everyone off the bus. 

TBG; Thanks!  The two biggest are yet to come fo' shizzle.  I'm not even sure if I'll pull 'em in a week! They still don't look mature enuf yet.


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## Zarnon (Jan 29, 2007)

*Lights - revisiting intensity and spectrum (part 1)*


I got into an interesting discussion on an other thread regarding these topics.  I think it's really interesting.  There is a lot of (mis)information about this topic that gets regurgitated over and over again without any critical analysis of where it came from.  

Some basic principles are here;

*Photosynthesis and light: * http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html

*Phytochromes, etc.* When people talk about what the red spectrum does,  they are talking about phytochromes,  here:  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phytochrome   Also follow links to cytochromes and phototropins.



*Intensity*

Plants vary with need for light. Flowers like Pink Allusion, White Butterfly, Grape Ivy, etc in comparative studies have shown decreased growth with higher levels of light (they measured intensity in ft-c w/ lower levels being better http://mrec.ifas.ufl.edu/foliage/resrpts/rh_91_17.htm)

Others, like Roses have shown better end stage dry weight, bud sites, etc with increased light. 

When you look up MJ a lot of people mention the importance of intensity, but it's hard to find out where that came from. So why not look at a plant MJ is similar to? 

It's not tomatoes, but hops. They are both in the same family (Cannabaceae) and the female flowers of both look very similar! There is a killer picture of a flowering hop plant here;

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/04/Humulus_lupulus_070805.jpg/800px-


How much light energy are your plants getting?  Check out this chart (not sure how accurate):  http://www.cannabisculture.com/foru...1194343&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=3
 It's interesting the amount of radiation we give our plants. With a 1000w MH at 6 inches you can give 1000% radiation of sunlight? Can that be good?  

It appears there's limits. Since MJ is similar to hops,  it's reasonable to see how they respond.  In this study 1800-2000 &#956;m m-2 s-1 (PAR/PFD terms, see below) was the max for photosynthesis in two species http://www.actahort.org/members/showpdf?booknrarnr=668_31.  Makes sense, there's limits on everything else (ferts,  fluids,  temp),  why not light?

(If someone knows how to make the conversion to lumens (or lux)! It would be very useful!

*Regarding PAR*

PAR gets a lot of traction on hydro and MJ sites, it's a concept that refers to an optimal range (400-700nanmeters) for plants to grow.   Its been proposed as an 'alternative' measurement.  There's a sprinkling of conspiracy theory in some posts about PAR.

Truth is, there already exists an identical accepted standard called (Photosynthetic) Photon flux Density or PPFD. The Hops article (above) uses this. Wonder why lights aren't rated in PPFD to avoid confusion?

400-700nm is the range of a good growing light. My Hortilux is 400-740nm. Maybe they should stamp it 'INCLUDES ALL PAR FREQUENCIES!!' and charge an extra ten bucks LOL.

The important part is the spectrum (next post).


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## Zarnon (Jan 29, 2007)

*Lights (part 2) -Spectrum and HID*

If you understand what the visible spectrum of light is (400-700) nm, then you will have an easy time following along.   See previous post with links to basic concepts.

Plants use light as a part of photosynthesis, regulating rhythms etc.  However,  'all light is not created equal'.   Certain parts are more important than others.  This includes the blue (400-500nm) and reds (650-680nm).  This is where PAR gets off-base as it gives equal weight to this entire range (see previous post).

So what we're talking about is a 'plant sensitivity curve', right? A correct one would show higher levels of response to these two areas?  Pic three and the link below are examples of them.  There are also many wrong ones.  Unfortunately these seem to appear a lot in hydro lit or MJ forums as well. The white line in pic 1 is an incorrect one. 

(Another correct plant sensitivity curve from Univ. of Hamburg); http://www.biologie.uni-hamburg.de/b-online/e24/3.htm  Note, two bumps at the distal ends of the spectrum (blues and reds).   

Curve's differ,  here's one for algae http://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/pigment.gif

So is there a way to tell how my particular light breaks down?  Color temperature is a good start. 

'Color Temperature'  is measured in degrees/Kelvin; The *lower end *is *warmer* (more reds) while *higher* is *cooler *(more blues). A HPS is 2000-3000k (3000 extended spectrum), while your MH can go from 3000-6500 (3000 also ex. spec).   I've been able to find a color temp for all HID lights I've looked at.

Here are some examples of color temperature:

Sunrise/Sunset: 3200k
Halogen bulb: 3500k
Midday (sun overhead): 5500k 
Overcast:  6500k
Shade 8000k
Blue Sky:  9000-12000k


We push 2000-3000 spectrum bulbs for flowering. Why is that? In the literature,  a MH bulb is recommended if you have no access to sunlight while HPS are reccommended as a secondary *+ sun*.  Maybe it's b/c a nonextended spec HPS is creating a predominant red light,  redder than a sunset and then intensifying it by a factor of ten.  

I think of Kal-el on his balcony, checking out the Red Giant dominating the sky.  Well, worked for Superman, surely Superbud?  

Compare the spectral analysis for both. Pic 1 is HPS, 2 is MH. Compare both of them to an accurate plant sensitivity curve (pic 3).

Look at where they're going! Even the reds useful to the plant appear equal or higher with the MH but the MH has a lot more useful blues and blue-greens.

Summary and Zarnon's experiment: The MH appears to duplicate sunlight,  be recommended as a primary light and have greater levels of useful light where it counts.  I'm going to try an Agrosun with my clones all through flowering and see how they do!  Stay tuned.


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## cyberquest (Jan 29, 2007)

i know i will be right here with you watching man, i think we are on to something about the whole lighting issue. i wonder if flowering with a MH and a HPS together would have any adverese affects on plant growth.


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## Ravishing_68 (Jan 29, 2007)

I like it, I LIKE IT!!!  I totally agree on you that too much of anything can be a bad thing.  Please keep a journal I would love to know your outcome. eace:


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## Zarnon (Jan 29, 2007)

Here's the thing CQ... with any of our wonderful ideas,  we have to have something to compare it to (our control group).  Ideally you'd take two clones from the same mother,  use the same exact enviro and change one thing and one thing only and see if it made any diff.  

Now my experiment 'aint perfect,  but the clones will have the exact same enviro with the only diff being they start in right before flower, not identical to seed grow.  I think it'll be fun;  we'll call it 'Zarnon's Reluctant Grow'.

Sometimes changes are value neutral;  they have no effect on the grow, but that's great info too.  That might be the case after all our intellectualizing about lights. There is probably a bunch of 'wisdom' that deserves to be tested this way.

Trivia Question:  Where do light recommendations for MJ come from (20w/ft or 7000lumen/ft)?


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## Zarnon (Jan 31, 2007)

Schmoke Report!

Ok,  I have a nice frosty bowl that I just toked off the 'snowbud'.   Still 'green' but already tasting pretty piney and sweet.  It will be a few weeks before she develops her distinct character.

It is very body feeling weed,  not much for thinking LOL... 

AND NO SEEDS!  

2 smaller plants, 10.8 z's dried, manicured and jarred NUGZ. :ccc:


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## Zarnon (Jan 31, 2007)

Zar's lil Experiment

Metal Halide in!  Well, if nothing else I'll be taking better pictures! 

3 clones now in (the one in the back just put in tonight,  the other have been in four days).

Pic of the two mature plants I have left.  I expect a pretty good yield.  The front plant dominates(go figure!).  A little bigger and those buds will equal my avatar.  That MH has its work cut out to beat the HPS!


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Feb 1, 2007)

*Whats up Zarnon. Congrats on a very fine harvest my friend. I can see one problem though you forgot to pack my bong.  :bong1:  Are the clones you just put in the same strain? You da man.  *


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## Zarnon (Feb 1, 2007)

Hey TBG,  that's quite a compliment coming from da MAIN man!  heh heh... Yea, they are the same strain so I'm gonna have an *arsenal* of AK47.

One problem I have is when I found out they were females I took off all the identifying tags (DOH!).  There is only one I'm sure of,  but it's a 'snowbud' clone.   

Dude! It would be an honor to pack yer bowl.  My dream would be to meet a couple of members at some gathering (Rainbow?),  have a good Z each and have a no-holds barred SESSION mang! 


:afroweed::bong2: :joint4: :bongin: :joint: :bong: :ccc: :48: 

Mmmmmmmm, just went and opened the jars... smells like cookies in there!!


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## Ravishing_68 (Feb 1, 2007)

Yes, there are a couple of people I would love to meet in person... have been so much help!  
What is Rainbow?  Is it in the US?  You know, the cheapest place for all to meet is Vegas...the air fare is always cheap cuz Vegas figures they'll get your money anyway... 
We were to go to Europe this year and of course Amsterdam was on the venue... but we had to postpone the trip due to my recent surgery and Dave's father being ill.  But I'm in for a gathering!!!


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## theyorker (Feb 1, 2007)

Well I hope that party invite is open!  Zarnon that looks like some mighty fine smoke and by my calculations a six month supply.  Good job.


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## Zarnon (Feb 1, 2007)

Yorker,  I am a heavy smoker (buds with morning coffee kinda guy) and with really good bud is I'll go through about 4z's in 3 month or longer!  If it was commercial I would be tokin' a lot more.  

One of the last bags I bought was terribly immature untrimmed microbuds.  I went through that 150$ half in a weekend chasing a high.  Now I'm out of the loop bay-bay! :aok:

Now, great Homegrown?  I'm not trying to overly brag but the stuff I just pulled is some of the best weed I've ever done.  If I can cure this right I'd pull this out with anyone.  Just good all the way through; looks, aroma,  taste,  finish,  high... Papi is very proud!  

Rav - I have great memories of  A'damm,  I went and read about it.. but now seems kind of a rip.  I mean 20euros a GRAM?  ***??  I haven't been in over 20 years (I was 19 when I went) but it was very laid back, cheap,  fun!  I'd like to go to Cannibus cup only because there is an expo where you can meet manufacturers,  learn growing techniques (hopefully).  The whole 'pay 400 bucks to be a judge!' seems kinda lame IMHO.


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## theyorker (Feb 1, 2007)

That is why I am starting my grow Zarnon.  I like to smoke good weed and everything I buy just leaves me hanging.  It stinks because they won't give the plants the time they need to do their thing.  

As I was reading your comments about this being the best stuff you've ever grown, I started to laugh as I thought "that's just bragging!!"  One bong hit and your stoned???  Well I just say you are a lucky dude and I hope I am there with you in 3 months or maybe a little less.


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## Zarnon (Feb 1, 2007)

Yorker... whaaa?  Dude,  At this point I don't think there's anything that could get me stoned on one hit LOL...  (hash..maybe. mmm hash).

I can see how it would come off tho about 'da best'.  I changed that b/c I thought it was overly egotistic.  At the same time,  I wish I could share it with ya.   That one plant is the best I've done in terms of weight (those 'neutron' nugs are almost double the wt compared to the other plant!) aroma,  taste, high,  smell, etc.  I really feel I got the 'true' AK47 with this one.  If I was breeding this is the one I'd keep.

Red/White, TBG,  and many others grow nugz that ranks up with A'dam I'd reckon.  I've been there many times and it's great weed/hash but it's not anything majik.    As long as you have the genetics you can do just as well (or maybe better?).


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## Zarnon (Feb 4, 2007)

*Number 3 down!*

Welp,  spent the day doing trimmin.... this is the first of the larger two plants.  Check out the buds as I was unhooking 'em lol..

The fourth will be another 2 weeks I think!  She _has_ to be predominately Sativa.  The buds are so long compared to the compact round ones here.  

Zarnon's Mini Exp  - How much Weight is Lost During Dry and Cure?

I'm curious to see how much water loss I have in dry, then cure, then total. I figure it's worth knowing.   

So I weighed up a random nug.  In the third pic it's the last nug on the right lower string,  a detail shot follows.  

Wt after manicure - 25gms.  

I'll wait until I feel she's ready to be jarred (about 5 days usu),  then do a second.  The last I'll do three weeks later.


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## Zarnon (Feb 5, 2007)

Clones In! 

Notice the soil grow?  Yep.  I was very impressed with Red/White's grow.  I am trying my best to use it as my base.  Thank you Red/White for the advice you've given me! :aok:  It's cool because I'm growing it side by side with a sister clone started at the same time (last night) in hydro.

So my little low-tech veg room did it's job.  No meters, timers,  only fluoro, hand watering and two fans.  .  Kept those clones growing over 2 months!  I still have one more to grow.  Dudn't it look all lonely!?  Doing the hand watering really helped me develop that 'feel' for when they need it.  This was soilless to make it more compatible w/ a hydro transplant so I'll have to adjust to watering straight soil.  

The pic shows the diff being under hydro/HID (see text in photo).  It's just not fair! :cry: 

So lotsa different experiments.. Elephant Man, are you checking this out? :dancing:


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## offgrid (Feb 5, 2007)

zarnon,

i read this whole thread from start to finish. i understand when you say you put a lot of effort into posting and sometimes it feels like it's wasted...but noooOOooo, it's not true!  i'm digging your thread!  i mean, here you have a SuPeR-GRoW-RooM!!! with crazy balancing of nutes and humidity and etc...and i'm just trying to get one tiny plant to make it with a ghetto set-up.  when i get more settled into a place/country, i'll be thinking back to your labor and ingenuity to guide me in my endeavors. 

i think i'm just impatient, cos tomorrow will be exactly one week from when my plant sprouted and i don't know at what stage of development she's supposed to be at.  however, your detailed diary has let me see what to expect under optimal conditions (and how mine will take awhile longer and not be as impressive, but i'm learning).  so yeah, thanks for the diary. it was a fun read ^.^


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## parkingjoe (Feb 5, 2007)

5-6gms bone dry zarnon ill bet ya yeild on it...

rofl

pkj


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## Zarnon (Feb 5, 2007)

ParkingJoe:  I'm gonna say 6.  I have never weighed so I dunno how much water is lost.  I'm going to judge it by feel (dry and cure) then weigh so I'm not influenced by the numbers.

Offgrid:  Welcome!  Thanks for your words.  It's what makes it worthwhile. I remember when I was learning and reading so much info,  some of it very confusing and contradictory.  I wanted to get beyond the 'wow great buds' threads and get the details.  I'm glad you got something out of this.


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## Elephant Man (Feb 5, 2007)

Sorry Zarnon, been real busy but I am watching.  Very nice to see you doing experiments too.  I have MH in flowering room too, as well as a hortilux eye and overdriven flouros.  I read that the extra UV from halides can insrease potency and resin production, but possibly be slightly down on weight...sounds right up our alley.  

Wanted to tell you, having just tested my third strain harvested, I am guessing I am going to be a sativa smoker...I am really enjoying my Jack Herer hybrid.  Very mellow long term 'fine cigar' like smoke with medium potency, but no rushes or peakiness...super creative high...skunky scent.  Look into it, if you haven't already. 

Edit: One of my mentors has told me that plants flowered under HPS will burn through higher levels of P, Mg, sometimes Iron.  Under MH, N and K.


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## Ravishing_68 (Feb 5, 2007)

Zarnon, perhaps take this new grow to a new thread... I know I want to watch your results of hydro vs. soil.  

If you can use the same lighting, the same environment, and document each week, this would be a very interesting project.  I love anything scientific.  I have an excel document that I have made to keep track of my grows and then when I get enough experience I can really look and see what made the difference.  

I am like most on here, don't much care about the yield, though of course with as much work as we put in, we want a decent yield, I'm looking at quality.  Keep us up on your project! ~ Rav


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## funstarfish (Feb 5, 2007)

Just read through the entire thread Zarnon... great read.  took me most of the morning to finish as it was sharing time with George RR Martin's A Game of Thrones.  Addictive read, made more addicitve by our lovely NW cloudcover.  Thanks for sharing the information.  gotta love the minds which are always trying to improve things.


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## Zarnon (Feb 5, 2007)

Planet EM said:
			
		

> Wanted to tell you, having just tested my third strain harvested, I am guessing I am going to be a sativa smoker



You and me both dude!  I really like the highs of a Sativa!  If you like a great sativa try Kali Mist!  I'm very partial having done two diff grows from seed.

Speaking of Indica/Sativas,  I understand why I have such different phenos with this grow.  Do you know in the Cannabis Cup AK-47 has won 2nd place for best Sativa (1999) *and* 2nd for best Indica (2003)!  

Jack Herer sounds really good,  everyone is into it.  What's it like?



			
				the ever resourceful EM said:
			
		

> I read that the extra UV from halides can insrease potency and resin production, but possibly be slightly down on weight...sounds right up our alley.



Hmm.  Well,  this is why I'm putting it to the test,  because I am wagering that both vegetative AND flowering mass will be greater.  It is just hitting more cylinders m8.  Even my reds are equal to the HPS so I don't think I'll miss a beat!   That annoying crappy yellow is gone and thus the light is much happier.   Goodbye Kal-EL and Krypton!




			
				the ever interesting Ravishing said:
			
		

> Zarnon, perhaps take this new grow to a new thread... I know I want to watch your results of hydro vs. soil.



What?  You're going to stop reading if I hit page 10?    I may do it once I've wrapped up the harvest of the last seed grown. 



			
				RAV said:
			
		

> If you can use the same lighting, the same environment, and document each week, this would be a very interesting project. I love anything scientific. I have an excel document that I have made to keep track of my grows and then when I get enough experience I can really look and see what made the difference.



Cool Rav! I'm a stone cold geekazoid who likes science, programming, RPG and ganja not necessarily in that order LOL... I'm precise person and I like scientific inquiry.  

The grows won't be entirely equivalent due to differences in how you work with soil and hydro.  Also genetics are going to play a role. This AK-47 produced 4 very different phenos and I only know the identity of one clone.  Doh!  It was a spur of the moment project inspired one night by seeing Red/White's soil grow. 




			
				R said:
			
		

> I am like most on here, don't much care about the yield, though of course with as much work as we put in, we want a decent yield, I'm looking at quality. Keep us up on your project! ~ Rav



I think yield is important to a point.  I 'aint gonna work 4 months to grow a half oz LOL...  But after you reach the point where you can grow more herb than you can smoke, it's time to change the focus. I've always been interested in taste,  now I'm trying a lot of avenues.  



			
				funstar said:
			
		

> it was sharing time with George RR Martin's A Game of Thrones.



That is a very intense complex series,  I really enjoyed it.  

Have you read any Zelazny?   If you like political intrigue,  fantasy and some really trippy concepts the Chronicles of Amber was one of my all time favorites.  Also Pullman 'His Dark Materials' series is great. 

Styling Grow Accessory 2007

Check out - The NugTainer!!   Wooeee!!  They call him.... Shaft! :afroweed: 

Now, you only get to join Club Nugtainer (tm) if you have a single big enuf to fill it heh heh heh...


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## RedandWhite (Feb 6, 2007)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> Clones In!
> 
> Notice the soil grow? Yep. I was very impressed with Red/White's grow. I am trying my best to use it as my base. Thank you Red/White for the advice you've given me! :aok: It's cool because I'm growing it side by side with a sister clone started at the same time (last night) in hydro.


 


Getting your hands dirty in the soil, eh? I salute you. eace: 

Lookin' good, buddy.

Rock on!


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## Elephant Man (Feb 7, 2007)

Just found the poor guys thread you guys romped on about the lighting.  Someone should have came and got me LOL.  I think I do know where a par to lumens conversion is bro, give me a few days to find it though...not exactly sure what forum it was on.


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## Zarnon (Feb 7, 2007)

Excellent!! I can't wait,  that would give a lot better idea what is 'optimal'.    

Dude,  I think you'd get a lot more mileage if you did searches and such for PFD (or photon flux density).   It and PAR are a measure of intensity and use equivalent units (so your conversion will be the same for both).  You'll find a lot more scientific literature on light/horticulture if you use standard terms.  

Where PAR goes off-track is how people misapply it. It's a definition of a spectral range,  but by no means is all that range 'optimal'.  I went into this on page 1 of my light article.   Comments?

*CURE WT LOSS EXPERIMENT*  (part b)

Put the tagged bud into the jar after 4 days.  I usually do it here or the next day;  I judge by how the bud feels (squishy to slightly soft, never crunchy).  

Weight at start of cure, 7 gms.

I was surprised.  I thought it would be heavier. Already a 75% reduction.   It will be interesting to see how much more is lost during cure.


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## Elephant Man (Feb 8, 2007)

Clear your mailbox bro, we will get this sorted...posts should have been moved not deleted IMO.


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## funstarfish (Feb 8, 2007)

seriously?  man that is just downright odd.  I appreciate your input as well as many others.  let us know this blog address.


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## parkingjoe (Feb 8, 2007)

well zarnon ive not read your threads or others much more out of laziness and too many things to do but even me a complete imbicile can appreciate the lengths you go to to provide such beneficial knowledge on the various growing techniques/methods along with valuable info on lighting spectrums etc etc etc.......


posts should not be deleted as elephant man mentioned and i agree if in wrong forum then moved.......


onto your grow fabulous dude well done id appreciate any info on the methods used!!!


are the hydro buckets ...bubblers or hydropots etc.


later dude

pkj


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## parkingjoe (Feb 8, 2007)

hey zarnon i actually read your thread some and page 1 system:farm: :farm:   


this is new system im getting for buddys next grow only thing different and only other outlay is one pump for air and one for nutes only medium is small bag of clay pebbles and nute heater and were away.

you like this lot is about £200 complete delivered in uk for 12 pot system.


pkj


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## Zarnon (Feb 9, 2007)

Hey Parkingjoe.  

That airpump is the bomb!  Very cool.  I have two (but only four outlets each). 

I gotta review how these systems work.  How does the water get circulated to the top?   It looks very compact.   I'll be interested to see how it works!


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## stunzeed (Feb 9, 2007)

Zarnon said:
			
		

> *Day 21 Flower*
> 
> The buds are coming along well. No way are they going to be finished with flowering in a month but looking really healthy and progressing nicely (never believe the flowering times listed, sorta like reading the MPG sticker on a new car).
> 
> ...


 

Hey Zarnon. I see a pic of Roots Organics Soil. That is the stuff I keep getting told about and am gonna try it next grow. What do you think of the stuff??

Stunzeed..


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Feb 10, 2007)

*Hey Zarnon sorry you feel this way man. Your post were deleted on the request of the members journal they were posted in. He felt his thread was being hijacked and didn't feel those post belonged in his journal. I sent you a PM telling you why they were deleted. I could have moved them but at the time didn't think about it. Hey man what can i say but sorry. Here man have a hit of this. :48: *


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## frankpeterson (Feb 10, 2007)

your grow is simply spectacular.  Holland will be proud of you.


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## parkingjoe (Feb 10, 2007)

posted a reply to zarnons thread and hey dudes its disappeared alsoeace: 


pkj


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## parkingjoe (Feb 10, 2007)

shyster its above

rofl

pkj  stonedddddddddddd


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## theyorker (Feb 10, 2007)

Hey Zarnon, just so you know I do appreciate all the time you put into your responses and it never even dawned on me that you would be pissed by me doing it.  I hope there are no hard feelings, because there are certainly none over here.  You've done an outstanding job on this grow and I would certainly like to see you do more.  Later.


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