# Caregivers lose BIG rights



## NorCalHal (Nov 25, 2008)

In a blow to medical marijuana providers, the California Supreme Court ruled that defendants are not entitled to a defense as Prop. 215 caregivers if their primary role is only to supply marijuana to patients. The court unanimously overruled an appellate court decision in the case _People v. Roger Mentch,_ writing: 

" We hold that a defendant whose caregiving consisted principally of supplying marijuana and instructing on its use, and who otherwise only sporadically took some patients to medical appointments, cannot qualify as a primary caregiver under the Act and was not entitled to an instruction on the primary caregiver affirmative defense. We further conclude that nothing in the Legislature's subsequent 2003 Medical Marijuana Program (Health & Safety Code, 11362.7 et seq.) alters this conclusion or offers any additional defense on this record. "

Prop 215 defines "primary caregiver" to be the "individual designated by the [patient]... who has consistently assumed responsibility for the housing, health, or safety of that
person."
According to the Court, these words "imply a caretaking relationship directed at the core survival needs of a seriously ill patient, not just one single pharmaceutical need. "
The Court concluded, " a defendant asserting primary caregiver status must prove at a minimum that he or she (1) consistently provided caregiving, (2) independent of any assistance in taking medical marijuana, (3) at or before the time he or she assumed responsibility for assisting with medical marijuana. "
The Court's ruling effectively limits the caregiver defense to relatives, personal friends and attendants, nurses, etc. In particular, it excludes its use by medical marijuana "buyers'clubs," retail dispensaries and delivery services.
The remaining legal defense for medical marijuana providers is to organize as patient cooperatives and collectives, which are legal under SB 420.
"The Mentch decision highlights the inadequacy of California's current medical marijuana supply system," said Cal NORML coordinator Dale Gieringer. "The law needs to allow for professional licensed growers , as with other medicinal herbs."
- D. Gieringer Cal NORML


Basically, this is going to have a HUGE impact here in Cali. HUGE. This now takes away the whole premise of MMJ Dispensaries. Gonna get ugly....


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## Disco94 (Nov 25, 2008)

Leave Us Alone!


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

In my book thats awesome..... If a person wants to qualify as a caregiver then they should have to do the appointments and stuff too with them(the patient),,,,after all, isnt that what the term "CareGiver" is. They are not the "weedman" they are people trusted with the care of another person this includes much more than just medication supply. This is not a Blow to MMJ but rather a step to legitimizing the "Caregiver" status. If you are truly a caregiver and have the best interest of the patient in mind then this would not bother you in the least bit...IMO

I know several people who mask as "caregivers" to grow for thier stock and make profits. 

This is a lousy loophole and it looks like they are closing it....BRAVO to Them.....

Right On.... Keep the patience best interest in mind....


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## godspeedsuckah (Nov 25, 2008)

Homosexuals can't get married to one another anymore, what makes mmj users and caregivers think they are immune to the systems crap.


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## godspeedsuckah (Nov 25, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> In my book thats awesome..... If a person wants to qualify as a caregiver then they should have to do the appointments and stuff too with them(the patient),,,,after all, isnt that what the term "CareGiver" is. They are not the "weedman" they are people trusted with the care of another person this includes much more than just medication supply. This is not a Blow to MMJ but rather a step to legitimizing the "Caregiver" status. If you are truly a caregiver and have the best interest of the patient in mind then this would not bother you in the least bit...IMO
> 
> I know several people who mask as "caregivers" to grow for thier stock and make profits.
> 
> ...



Well written, I like your view and think you are correct.


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## lyfr (Nov 25, 2008)

I'm glad I grow so I am somewhat independent of any need for a club or supplier.  _I think it's just a big waste of our money and more profits for the..uh..hispanics destoying the hills/mountains with their 5000 plant grows on our protected lands.  I'm also not sure how easy it will be to find a nurse who will put you up her house, drive you to all your appointments, feed you,  grow weed for you....just my very high thoughyts_


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## lyfr (Nov 25, 2008)

Sorry bout double-dippin but think about this one...Does the local pharmacist do any of those things mentioned or only what he has knowledge of;verifying scripts, distributing medicine, and instucting of it's use?  I may be way off on this one but it ain't the first time


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

Is the pharmasist someone giving medications out of his garage or shed? I dont think so.... Also Pharmasists tend to have some education in regards to medicine degree, schooling. Caregivers do not have to be Licensed Pharmasists to dispense medications, They do not have the gov, rlues and regulations that they need to follow and are monitored....That is the reason for the stringent guidelines of caregivers.....oh yeah and the fact that the meds cargivers are dispensing are illegal...wether it should be or not....it is...

Your comparing apples to oranges.....


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## Wiseguy_Chef (Nov 25, 2008)

lyfr said:
			
		

> I'm glad I grow so I am somewhat independent of any need for a club or supplier. _I think it's just a big waste of our money and more profits for the..uh..hispanics destoying the hills/mountains with their 5000 plant grows on our protected lands. I'm also not sure how easy it will be to find a nurse who will put you up her house, drive you to all your appointments, feed you, grow weed for you....just my very high thoughyts_


_


are u rasitest or just retarted, since u can't say it, mexicans grow there weed south of the border. most of your 5000 plant oups are being ran by white people with big money ok, so don't be going on with rasist stuff, i am hispanic, an hate the drug wars. but the people distoying your hills are your own people!!!!_


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## NorCalHal (Nov 25, 2008)

What Lyfr is reffering too is the NUMEROUS busts this year in the forests of California. They were all ran by Mexican cartels and this has been increasing over the last 10 years or so. Bottom line, the mexicans can't get rid of redbud for nothin' anymore, so this is thier way of getting back into the market. They do HUGE ops in the forests and  leave all thier crap behind.
So, don't get all crazy Chef, I think Lyfr meant no harm.

Now, back to the real thing that has be BAFFELED.

Godspeed and New, first off you guys have my respect, so don't get offended by my following comments.

Do you guys really think that all the MMJ laws were started and are truly meant for Seriously Ill folks? Cmon meow.
Iv'e said it once, and I'll keep sayin it, MMJ is a STEPPING stone for full decrimilasation, imho. 
Look guys, NORML (member since '88!) have tried all though the 70's and 80's to get herb decriminalized to no avail. Then they went the "MMJ" route. That gained sympathy from folks that were too scared to put thier vote to it. Now, folks that don't want water cooler talk about how they could care less about weed, now can voice thier opionon on how they don't care about Medical MJ. Either way, these folks now have a different view on MJ.

All this talk about "Patients" and being a "caregiver" that really "cares" is nonsense. Seriouly, how many SERIOUSLY Ill folks do you know that need to smoke weed? I'm atalking about Dieing AIDS patients, Cancer Chemo Patients, and "on thier death bed" people?  

Should MMJ states Revoke the rights of the guy who gets a Rec for elbow pain? Is he not entiteled to MJ legally? Or the chick who gets a rec for PMS?
Who are you or anybody to say they can't have MJ legally, only folks we feel sorry for. I don't care what reason a person has to get legal in the eyes of the law for MJ. It's DAMN time to end this nonsense. So that means all the poor folks on this site living in non MMJ states are criminals, thats what your sayin man.

Lets talk "Caregiver" We all know that a Caregiver license is a LEGAL way (well used to be) to grow bigger ops and supply the clubs. And you guys are against that?? Crazy. 
Can you guys tell me you have been growin herb since u started smokin, and have NEVER bought a bag since? Heck no. At one time or another WE HAVE ALL BOUGHT WEED.
But, PROPS to all that have taken on the enjoyable challenge of growing thier own. Obviously, we all love it and that is what brings us together here at MP.
But, as I have said before, WE ARE THE MINORITY. I would have to guess that less then 10% of all pot smokers grow thier own herb. Probably more like less then 5%.
So, what the Clubs in Cali did, is allow 90% of the pot smokers a SAFE LEGAL place to buy thier wares. And that wrong?? And trust me, these clubs offer a fair price on all types of herb, it's not a rip u off joint. You have MULTIPLE choices to fit anyones price range. 
This is the MODEL for what full legalization should be. Not controlled by corperations and Pharmicuticle companies and only dispensed by Pharmacists, thats just CRAZY.

Built by Stoners and RAN by stoners, we know Herb better then the Goverment, ya think?


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

Hey WC, I agree laf should of worded it differently.....but how....

its well documented the larger grows 1500+ plants have been traced back to mexican drug cartels, and illegal aliens mostly of hispanic decent make up the larger percentage of those usually arrested at the grow sites. No racisim, just stating well documented facts. 

But on the other hand most of the grows never get traced back to anyone so thier is really no way to tell WHO is destroying the terrain....I dont know anyone (white,black, or hispanic) that have over 10 plants so i am just stating hearsay.......

lets all just smoke a bong and be gald its not one of us destroying the earth,,,,we are doing our part,,,,,:hubba: :hubba: :hubba:


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

> Do you guys really think that all the MMJ laws were started and are truly meant for Seriously Ill folks? Cmon meow.
> Iv'e said it once, and I'll keep sayin it, MMJ is a STEPPING stone for full decrimilasation, imho.
> Look guys, NORML (member since '88!) have tried all though the 70's and 80's to get herb decriminalized to no avail. Then they went the "MMJ" route. That gained sympathy from folks that were too scared to put thier vote to it. Now, folks that don't want water cooler talk about how they could care less about weed, now can voice thier opionon on how they don't care about Medical MJ. Either way, these folks now have a different view on MJ.


 
Couldnt agree more!



> All this talk about "Patients" and being a "caregiver" that really "cares" is nonsense. Seriouly, how many SERIOUSLY Ill folks do you know that need to smoke weed? I'm atalking about Dieing AIDS patients, Cancer Chemo Patients, and "on thier death bed" people?


 
Couldnt disagree more.....Its not nonsense..... Why are you taking away the care from "Caregivers" the words go hand in hand.... If they didnt really care think of it this way....what would they be? Lets see,,,, grows MJ and sells it to medical patients and clubs turning a hefty profit  sounds like a dealer to me......plain and simple.....

I know two people in such a condition of which you speak, one does MJ and one does not.... Seeing one person you care about in such a state is enough for me....so i dont need high numbers in this regard....



> Should MMJ states Revoke the rights of the guy who gets a Rec for elbow pain? Is he not entiteled to MJ legally? Or the chick who gets a rec for PMS?
> Who are you or anybody to say they can't have MJ legally, only folks we feel sorry for. I don't care what reason a person has to get legal in the eyes of the law for MJ. It's DAMN time to end this nonsense. So that means all the poor folks on this site living in non MMJ states are criminals, thats what your sayin man.


 
Noone has said anything about who should recieve MMJ....It treats a slew of symptoms..... You are doing a little too much reading between the lines and putting words in my mouth. We are talking about the people who provide it and what standards they have to live up to....thats it...



> Lets talk "Caregiver" We all know that a Caregiver license is a LEGAL way (well used to be) to grow bigger ops and supply the clubs. And you guys are against that?? Crazy.


 
Again Noone has said they are against it.....I know i keep repeating myself but I am talking about the standards to which people who grow and supply these clubs and patients should adhere to.....

I just think that too many people are using the MMJ caregiver status as a shield to protect them from prosecution for other illegal activities such as dealing.....Thye just arrested a guy growing 700 plants in a wharehouse somewhere in Cali, he claimed caregiver status protection but he only had one MMJ patient card.....700 plants for one patient,,,, you think there should be nothing wrong with that? 

IMO all this boils down to is that if someone wants to be a "Caregiver" and supply MMJ to legal MMJ patients then there should at least be some standards that they have to adhere to dont you agree? Or do you think because they claim the caregiver status they should be just left alone with no standardization of the program, to do what they want?

think about it.....


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## lyfr (Nov 25, 2008)

Wiseguy_Chef said:
			
		

> are u rasitest or just retarted, since u can't say it, mexicans grow there weed south of the border. most of your 5000 plant oups are being ran by white people with big money ok, so don't be going on with rasist stuff, i am hispanic, an hate the drug wars. but the people distoying your hills are your own people!!!!


:rofl: :rofl:It was a joke lameass, I am mexican,fool


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## NorCalHal (Nov 25, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> Again Noone has said they are against it.....I know i keep repeating myself but I am talking about the standards to which people who grow and supply these clubs and patients should adhere to.....
> 
> IMO all this boils down to is that if someone wants to be a "Caregiver" and supply MMJ to legal MMJ patients then there should at least be some standards that they have to adhere to dont you agree? Or do you think because they claim the caregiver status they should be just left alone with no standardization of the program, to do what they want?
> 
> think about it.....


 
Great response man. 
Please don't think I don't care about folks and am making light of thier illness, I understand it truly helps alot of SERIOUSLY ill people.

First, I guess I'll throw it out there, I don't really care about who grows how big our what they do in the privicy of a Facility they own. If a guy has a Wearhouse and the ability and know how to safely, without robbing power and grows great herb, more power to him. Let him grow 1000 plants. I know alot of folks will disagree, but thats how I feel about it.

But see what I said, and New 2 Chronic made me think about it, I laid out "standards". Safely. Not robbing Power.
So I guess their should be "conditions". 

But what conditions?? They can't make money? Is someone who supplies herb to a "Medical Marijuana Dispensary" just a pot dealer? I guess thats the real question.

What makes a Pot Dealer? Sells it to a non MMJ person? Sells "too much"?  Sells it for "higher then normal" prices? Sells in the Ghetto instead of a Posh Hollywood apartment?

As far as the "Caregiver" status, I understand what your sayin' man. But INHO, I believe it was put in 215 to "expand" legal coverage of more folks.

Here is the KEY text in 215:
A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the persons health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief. 


The KEY. Or any other Illness for which marijuana provides relief. This basically opened it up to ALL Persons of Legal age.  And Caregivers are just a way of expanding that legal protection. Other States have now narrowed down what MMJ can be recommended for, But, that is how Cali Prop 215 was written and PASSED, Gotta LOVE it.

Of course I do not think that a MMJ Caregiver is anywhere near the same as a Seriosly Ill persons real "Caregiver". That is a job unto itself. I just think we should push the boundries until we get full legalization, and the "caregiver" was one way

Here is what 215 says a caregiver is : (e) For the purposes of this section, Primary caregiver means the individual designated by the person exempted under this act who has consistently assumed responsibility for the housing, health or safety of that person.

Or...

Becasue it says or, that is what opened up the door. If it said "and", that would be alot different. You would have to be responsible for all 3 items, not one. This is what was argued, and was defeted.

So, back to Standards. What do you all think? What would be "guidlines"?


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

> First, I guess I'll throw it out there, I don't really care about who grows how big our what they do in the privicy of a Facility they own. If a guy has a Wearhouse and the ability and know how to safely, without robbing power and grows great herb, more power to him. Let him grow 1000 plants. I know alot of folks will disagree, but thats how I feel about it.
> 
> But see what I said, and New 2 Chronic made me think about it, I laid out "standards". Safely. Not robbing Power.
> So I guess their should be "conditions".


 
I see your point on this statement, And I guess it is that right in which this forum was based on and the reason we re all here. Freedom to do what, when, and how you want in the privacy of your own home or faciity should be kept sacred and noone has the right to dictate what a person can and cant do. As long as you are not endangering yourself or anyone else then its sacred,,,,

But Ive yet to see a operation that size not "robbing power" or bringing an unsavory element around. 



> But what conditions?? They can't make money? Is someone who supplies herb to a "Medical Marijuana Dispensary" just a pot dealer? I guess thats the real question.
> 
> What makes a Pot Dealer? Sells it to a non MMJ person? Sells "too much"? Sells it for "higher then normal" prices? Sells in the Ghetto instead of a Posh Hollywood apartment?


 
Basicly....IMO...Yes..... someone that supplies herb for money is a Pot dealer. I mean I know there is no way the grower is spending anywhere near the price they charge per ounce to grow it....I can see recovering the costs of growing, and getting some free smoke out of the deal but they are going well beyond that. 

I thnk the term they used in 215 is what is causing the problems here. They used the term Caregiver, which implies a step beyond what the task actually is. 

Standards hmm... how about the Caregiver must be involved in the patients treament beyond just growing and supplying MJ for them. That could be that the "CG" provides or arranges transportation for treatments and appointments.....Could also be that the CG is responsible for picking up prescriptions and delivering them to the patient...The CG should also not be able to profit from the patient. Recovering costs for growing equiptment and nutrients is okay but that should be it. This could be done as a recurring monthly charge for the patient....There should be a limit of plants per patient the CG is responsible for, and it should be closely monitored.....There should also be a limit to the amount of patients per CG....

All just my opinion though...... If they would of used another term for the position like "medicinal healer" or something like that I doubt that this conversation would be happening,,,,

Jut wanted to say thanks Hal for this thread. I respect you and your views fully and entertain your .02 anytime...!


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

Alot of people are talking out there buttocks and dont know nothing about caregiving this is a step back for legalization not a step forward so if you dont have anything positive to say for prop 215 its really not needed


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

> Alot of people are talking out there buttocks and dont know nothing about caregiving this is a step back for legalization not a step back so if you dont have anything positive to say for prop 215 its really not needed


 
:confused2: have no idea what your talking about....what ya smokin on?


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## NewbieG (Nov 25, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> Is the pharmasist someone giving medications out of his garage or shed? I dont think so.... Also Pharmasists tend to have some education in regards to medicine degree, schooling. Caregivers do not have to be Licensed Pharmasists to dispense medications, They do not have the gov, rlues and regulations that they need to follow and are monitored....That is the reason for the stringent guidelines of caregivers.....oh yeah and the fact that the meds cargivers are dispensing are illegal...wether it should be or not....it is...
> 
> Your comparing apples to oranges.....




haha I think you are the one comparing apples to oranges. Caregivers are assisting in giving a medicine that although has incredible medicinal purposes, has the same risk as a tylenol... or less... lol

The reason for a pharmacists existence is because of the wide array of knowledge that is needed to avoid complications to these pharmaceutical drugs that have their own side affects plus additional side affects when mixed with other drugs that have their own side affects. What side affects of marijuana would the pharmacists be protecting us from... or trained on... don't have to worry about an overdose either... patient just gets really rested... doesn't sound like it requires any sort of training or specialized knowledge to use...


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

it doesnt take a genius to know that care giving is a harmless way of saying Medical Marijuana caregiver


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

And for the people that dont Know MMC Medical Marijuana ClubCard


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

You guys are clouding the issues.... this discussion is not about the drugs, or prop 215, or against caregivers. Its about the case that was just won, and how it affects medicinal mj fight. The defination of a caregiver, and the responsibilities that come, or should come along with being a CG.

Newbie:


> haha I think you are the one comparing apples to oranges. Caregivers are assisting in giving a medicine that although has incredible medicinal purposes, has the same risk as a tylenol... or less... lol


 
And where did you get your PHD from? Harvard I suppose.... I see you make no mention of the defination of a caregiver as it applies in Prop 215.

And you are way out in left field with your statement.... MJ is not as harmless as a tylonel if used wrongly. What do you think would happen if you gave a severely depressed person a Indica as a medicinal therapy.  You take "Caregiver" way to lightly. There is much more to know about supplying meds than just how to grow... You have to know WHAT to grow, and dosages, which can only be acheived through education.

I definately wouldnt want you as my caregiver thats for sure......


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## NorCalHal (Nov 25, 2008)

Thanks Chronic, great convo, very interesting.





			
				New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> I see your point on this statement, And I guess it is that right in which this forum was based on and the reason we re all here. Freedom to do what, when, and how you want in the privacy of your own home or faciity should be kept sacred and noone has the right to dictate what a person can and cant do. As long as you are not endangering yourself or anyone else then its sacred,,,,
> 
> But Ive yet to see a operation that size not "robbing power" or bringing an unsavory element around.


 
Thats what MMJ, to me, is all about. Freedom. Legalization. "Don't Tread on me". MJ Prohabition does not work. So, we agree that What you do is your business aside from endangering yurself or others. 

The biggest MJ ops do not even use power at all, it's all outdoor in Beloved Humbolt. So why can't Hippy Joe grow his 1000 plants, like they do every year for generations and not fear Prison time.

But, I do see your point in Big Indoor crops. I must say that I too have seen "unsavory" uses of power. But, the main reason power is used like that is to keep the higher usage "off the grid" and avoid detection by LEO.
Folks would GLADLY pay for power if it was legal and had no worries anout LEO and how many, or how big they went.

The "unsavory" element, which I see too, is still a cause of supply and demand. These are all new cats who are in to make a fast buck and mostly fail due to ignorance. But, you have that dumb "gangsta" in most wokplaces today, sad to say.



			
				New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> Basicly....IMO...Yes..... someone that supplies herb for money is a Pot dealer. I mean I know there is no way the grower is spending anywhere near the price they charge per ounce to grow it....I can see recovering the costs of growing, and getting some free smoke out of the deal but they are going well beyond that.


 
Whats fair? The grower is getting FAR less then what the Dispensay is charging patients, that is for sure. But what is mark-up? Most products are marked up 100 to 500%, Herb is less then that. And, as stated, if it wasn't for growers supplying herb to dispensaries, then over 100,000 folks would be back on the street in California alone trying to buy herb from REAL unsavory folks. 
Believe me, I do also think the end user price for herb is crazy. I see 65 an eigth in clubs. But I see 15 eights of good outdoor too. Supply and Demand.




			
				New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> I thnk the term they used in 215 is what is causing the problems here. They used the term Caregiver, which implies a step beyond what the task actually is.
> 
> Standards hmm... how about the Caregiver must be involved in the patients treament beyond just growing and supplying MJ for them. That could be that the "CG" provides or arranges transportation for treatments and appointments.....Could also be that the CG is responsible for picking up prescriptions and delivering them to the patient...The CG should also not be able to profit from the patient. Recovering costs for growing equiptment and nutrients is okay but that should be it. This could be done as a recurring monthly charge for the patient....There should be a limit of plants per patient the CG is responsible for, and it should be closely monitored.....There should also be a limit to the amount of patients per CG....


 
Your obviously a GREAT guy. I completly understand your argument here.
And yes, a "CG", by definition and commen sense, is a person that really provides care, not herb. But, unfortunaly that term "CG" was exploited for the greater cause , Full Legalization. Isn't that what we are ALL after?

Chronic, wouldn't you like to see Full Legalization. No limits one can have or grow. I know man, it would be CRAZY for a while and everyone would try, but it would "weed" itself out and true growers would prosper and Herb would get better and better.

Maybe I'm crazy man. But I like to smoke herb rather then Drink or do drugs. I have been doing so a long time. I see Beer comercials and drug comercials all the time. Fully accepted. I think MJ should be right there too. No friggin restrictions just like Alcohol gets. Set an age limit and let er rip.


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

What i see is it really doesnt depend on indica or sativa as to how it is grown and treated knowing that im bi polar has nothing to do with it if you are being treated with medical  marijuana should be fully honest this is just like any other PRESCRIBE MEDICINE you dont treat a virus with a antibiotic. AND FOR THE RECORD Marijuana is a depressent not a anti depressent other drugs would be known as a anti depressent which i will not name for say the rules of this form

AND ALSO FOR THE RECORD MY FAMILYS LINEAGE HAS GOT THERE MEDICAL DEGREES AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY MEDICAL SCHOOL PROGRESSING THREE GENERATIONS


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

> Whats fair? The grower is getting FAR less then what the Dispensay is charging patients, that is for sure. But what is mark-up? Most products are marked up 100 to 500%, Herb is less then that. And, as stated, if it wasn't for growers supplying herb to dispensaries, then over 100,000 folks would be back on the street in California alone trying to buy herb from REAL unsavory folks.
> Believe me, I do also think the end user price for herb is crazy. I see 65 an eigth in clubs. But I see 15 eights of good outdoor too. Supply and Demand.


 
I totaly agree with you.... but Cg's are usually growing for patients not dispenceries. I think the CG's should only be able to mark up say below 100% for sure, i was thinking 15%. that should more than make up for any grwing expenses Plus they get free smoke. I just dont want to see the CG's screwing the patients.....thats all.... 

I dont know how dispenceries are regulated so i cant comment. Is there any regulations to how much they can mark up product? Or are they free to set thier own prices.


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

> What i see is it really doesnt depend on indica or sativa as to how it is grown and treated knowing that im bi polar has nothing to do with it if you are being treated with medical marijuana should be fully honest this is just like any other PRESCRIBE MEDICINE you dont treat a virus with a antibiotic. AND FOR THE RECORD Marijuana is a depressent not a anti depressent other drugs would be known as a anti depressent which i will not name for say the rules of this form
> 
> AND ALSO FOR THE RECORD MY FAMILYS LINEAGE HAS GOT THERE MEDICAL DEGREES AT HOWARD UNIVERSITY MEDICAL SCHOOL PROGRESSING THREE GENERATIONS


 
HM Your family sounds more than qualified....But your statement shows just how much you know about using MJ in a medicinal regimen. Im no expert in MMJ but I do know what strains are beneficial and wether i need a indica or sativa to treat my different moods. If im in a depressed mood i knw i need a sativa to lift me up, if im having a psychotic Rage episode i know i need a couchlock indica to throw me down and keep me sedated for awhile....All of this has been gained by experimentation and guaging the effects...

You odviously dont know anything about dosage as well. Your probably one of those people who think, you cant overdose on MJ. You most certainly can, and when it is taken with food its even harder to get the dosage right. Yes it wont kill you but I made some butter that really mucked me up and made me feel very very badly for awhile....Try it if you dont believe me.....


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

like i said from what ive learned it depends on the grow chronic as much as the trich colors but that is only a rumor


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 25, 2008)

> like i said from what ive learned it depends on the grow chronic as much as the trich colors but that is only a rumor


 
you are confusing "when to harvest" with "what to grow, strain, family, ect"


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

from what i know white strains are the most medical strains and ive never heard of someone treating depression with marijuana


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## NewbieG (Nov 26, 2008)

I'm guessing it would probably make them more depressed... they would notice this and stop taking it... just like caffeine can make kids who are already hyper more hyper. I realize the risk that the individual may take their life exists, but I think people think in this world so maybe its not SO extreme?



			
				New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> You guys are clouding the issues.... this discussion is not about the drugs, or prop 215, or against caregivers. Its about the case that was just won, and how it affects medicinal mj fight. The defination of a caregiver, and the responsibilities that come, or should come along with being a CG.
> 
> Newbie:
> 
> ...


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## NewbieG (Nov 26, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> HM Your family sounds more than qualified....But your statement shows just how much you know about using MJ in a medicinal regimen. Im no expert in MMJ but I do know what strains are beneficial and wether i need a indica or sativa to treat my different moods. If im in a depressed mood i knw i need a sativa to lift me up, if im having a psychotic Rage episode i know i need a couchlock indica to throw me down and keep me sedated for awhile....All of this has been gained by experimentation and guaging the effects...
> 
> You odviously dont know anything about dosage as well. Your probably one of those people who think, you cant overdose on MJ. You most certainly can, and when it is taken with food its even harder to get the dosage right. Yes it wont kill you but I made some butter that really mucked me up and made me feel very very badly for awhile....Try it if you dont believe me.....



Thats the difference between other drugs and weed... Weed makes you feel "mucky" when other drugs kill you I think you are taking "caregiver" too far. The way you want it a caregiver would be needed for each patient to meet all the disabled persons needs... your definition would completely change things.


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 26, 2008)

all great points.... I see validity in all that was said here.....

im not taking caregiver too far I just think that a CG should bear a little more responsibility in the true spirit of the word. I never said tat a CG should handle ALL a persons needs, just more than being the weedman......


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## The Effen Gee (Nov 26, 2008)

Putting my heart, soul blood, and sweat into my crops while undercutting the market by almost criminal margins...

I have no problems sleeping at night.

Screw the dispenceries...come see Gee.


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## Wiseguy_Chef (Nov 26, 2008)

thies grows, are not cartel, its mexican mafia, an northast family doing thies grows with in the usa. the cartel's don't work that way. just cuz u here one thing one the news don't make it true. i lived the life i know what gos on out there. drugs run all, TJ cartle ant **** anymore, they don't have the infulnice to move in to the usa an start growing stuff. MM would wipem off the map buddy an get there cocain else where. like the jarzar cartal wich runs pretty much all the cocain an mexican brick in the usa.


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## godspeedsuckah (Nov 26, 2008)

Wiseguy_Chef said:
			
		

> are u rasitest or just retarted, since u can't say it, mexicans grow there weed south of the border. most of your 5000 plant oups are being ran by white people with big money ok, so don't be going on with rasist stuff, i am hispanic, an hate the drug wars. but the people distoying your hills are your own people!!!!



So I guess the real question is are YOU retarded. You can try calling me a racist it won't work, you bigot, I hate everyone equally!!!


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## HydroManiac (Nov 26, 2008)

where did this come from I NEVER SLEEP BUHAHAHA


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## NorCalHal (Nov 26, 2008)

Wiseguy_Chef said:
			
		

> thies grows, are not cartel, its mexican mafia, an northast family doing thies grows with in the usa. the cartel's don't work that way. just cuz u here one thing one the news don't make it true. i lived the life i know what gos on out there. drugs run all, TJ cartle ant **** anymore, they don't have the infulnice to move in to the usa an start growing stuff. MM would wipem off the map buddy an get there cocain else where. like the jarzar cartal wich runs pretty much all the cocain an mexican brick in the usa.


 
I believe he is correct, it's all the Southerners (Scraps as we like to call em') There is a difference in Cartels to MM. Still, they are of mexican nationality....who do not live in the US legally.





			
				New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> I totaly agree with you.... but Cg's are usually growing for patients not dispenceries. I think the CG's should only be able to mark up say below 100% for sure, i was thinking 15%. that should more than make up for any grwing expenses Plus they get free smoke. I just dont want to see the CG's screwing the patients.....thats all....
> 
> I dont know how dispenceries are regulated so i cant comment. Is there any regulations to how much they can mark up product? Or are they free to set thier own prices.


 
How the dispensaries operate is under the "caregiver" premice. That is why I feel the call the Cali Supreme court ruled is a negitive. This "could" push the sales to med patients bakc on the streets, which is wrong.

There is no regulations governing price, it is simple Supply and Demand. Harder strains to grow with less yield (Kush, purps) go for higher prices then some BlueBerry grown in huge quantities outdoor, for instance. I know man, you read about these HIGH prices for herb in the clubs, but it is the TOP strains and Grown to perfection. which is fetching these prices. And trust me, it is the MINORITY of herb at these places. There is PLENTY of GREAT herb at clubs for under $40 an eigth. So, don't think they are just robbin' folks, Shoot, the Patients have the choice of what to buy.
Now, if it went back to the Street, multiple choices and price ranges would dissapear.


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## SmokinMom (Nov 26, 2008)

Watch your words here guys.  This is an interesting read and I'd hate to see it get closed due to folks not getting along.  

Carry on- nicely.


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 26, 2008)

Hey MOM, I see no arguments happening here,,,, just good solid convo with different views......JMO though,,,,,

EDIT: Sorry MOM i see what your talking about......

Lets all play nice, Id hate to see such a productive thread go south......


Thanks NorCal, Let me ask you this. are all the dispenceries charging the same amount for the herb, for instance, is an eigth of purps the same no matter what dispencery you go to? Or is it possible you spend 80 at on place, and 60 at another?


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 26, 2008)

> How the dispensaries operate is under the "caregiver" premice. That is why I feel the call the Cali Supreme court ruled is a negitive. This "could" push the sales to med patients bakc on the streets, which is wrong.


 
Ding Ding Ding..... Now this I did not know,,,, Had no idea the Disp. are operating under the "Caregiver" status. I thought the dispenceries were just that and were governed another way. I thought the CG was for joe schmo that wanted to grow a few plants for mmj patients, so they would not have to deal with dispenceries.


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## NewbieG (Nov 26, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> all great points.... I see validity in all that was said here.....
> 
> im not taking caregiver too far I just think that a CG should bear a little more responsibility in the true spirit of the word. I never said tat a CG should handle ALL a persons needs, just more than being the weedman......



I agree with you here. I want to become one when I graduate from College. I plan on also providing other services such as organic vegetables and meats for meals after I assist them in taking their medicine. I figured it would be good for the sick to get a good healthy meal in them depending on their illness.
 But this new law would change that completely. Instead of being able to provide great services to 10+, 20+, 100+ people, CG will only be able to provide services for a few because of the increased time of dedication needed for each individual patient. Having to drive them, accompany them to appointments, prepare meals, etc, will limit CG to patient ratios drastically. The profession is either going to go under, or become a service only for those with alot of money, because I don't think insurance is going to cover it lol. One person cannot be a caregiver as you want them to be, AND grow, AND have several other patients.  So now how are the caregivers going to make a living? I think we're going to see a HUGE leap to co-ops, or people just going back into hiding or staying at an illegal status because of it. No doubt growing medical marijuana is a lucrative business, and people will use this law to cheat and sell illegally, but just because its being used wrong in some cases, it shouldn't be completely altered as it was. Maybe I'm misunderstanding what happened, but it sounds like they are trying to make it a 3-1 patient to care giver ratio sorta thing.


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## NorCalHal (Nov 26, 2008)

Dispensaries, as far as the Bay Area, are all around the same. But, I have heard of HIGHER prices in the clubs down in LA.
I have been reading up on the Decision made by the CSC and see a few things.
I must say my friend, you are more "correct", then I. 
Simply put, a CG is ONLY in charge of a FEW folks. With that said, the CG must also haveaa bigger interest in the ENTIRE well being of a "patient. 
As I read thru the AG statement, Clubs, and Bigger Growers must state they are a "Collective" now, instead of a CG. So, all in all, not much will change. Just termanology.
So, if a guy has 500 plants, he has to state he/she is part of a collective of patients and they were designated the "grower" for that "collective".
Same game, new terms.
So, after a GREAT couple of days of exchanging veiws with you Chronic, the term "CG" and the responsibilites of such, now carry a more accurate" portrayal of what a CG is. The "movement" just has to side step a bit and rename what they are doing to comply with the State.

I hear ya Mom.


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 26, 2008)

Thanks for clearing that up for us HAL....


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## nvthis (Nov 27, 2008)

I think there is an issue here not being explored. I really don't think this has anything at all to do with the big public land Mexican (or not) grows. I think motivated pot growers abused the cg loophole and between them and the dispencieries basically have been rubbing it in the face of the government for a while now. When you do that negative things are going to happen. Hopefully in the end, instead of a major step back this will be more like 1 step back, 2 steps forward. In a way this really gives us the ability to kind of 'fly under the radar', so to speak. No more gigantic grows that piss off the government. Now it just the 'Mexicans' (or not) doing it big and everyone else stays small and out of the public eye. I think the government is attempting to deal with this blatant and out of line behavior from her flock. This smells a little bit like that old 'don't ask, don't tell' thing. Remember: Time is on _our_ side  the longer this goes in the direction it is going, minor set backs will be tiny speed bumps and it will be more and more difficult for the government to bring back the old days.


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## Wiseguy_Chef (Nov 27, 2008)

yes mom, people gotta understand the diffrense between a ? an a statment. i did not call anyone rasiest or retarted, i asked if they where. not the same as calling you one. i was calling u out to explane your self.


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## godspeedsuckah (Nov 27, 2008)

Oh I see you redefined the english language. However you never answered my question or "explained yourself" when I "called you out." So what is it?


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## NorCalHal (Nov 27, 2008)

nvthis said:
			
		

> I think motivated pot growers abused the cg loophole and between them and the dispencieries basically have been rubbing it in the face of the government for a while now.


 
DAmn right, and more Power to the big grower.

Look man, Our Goverment has been abusing pot smokers for along time, so hell ya, any "loophole" should be exploited until we get MJ Fully Legalized. Period. Until it is treated the same as alcohol, the FIGHT will never end.

My thoughts anyway.


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## nvthis (Nov 28, 2008)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> the FIGHT will never end.


 
Word, brother!


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## nvthis (Nov 28, 2008)

The old adage "The Good Lord giveth, the government taketh away" Amazing ain't it? Self rightious hypocritic bastards can use Gods own words, or even usurp them altoghether, only when it benefits them. If there is a god (my opinion here omitted completely to avoid any religious/political conotation and retrobution from the current mods) those ignorant powers that be will have an awful lot of questions to answer for when their day comes. wrapping my mind around the political/religious relationship is a waste of brain power better confined to 'forget it' status. Better to concentrate on something else even more important. Like making playdough worms with my kid. Jmo.


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## HydroManiac (Nov 29, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> HM Your family sounds more than qualified....But your statement shows just how much you know about using MJ in a medicinal regimen. Im no expert in MMJ but I do know what strains are beneficial and wether i need a indica or sativa to treat my different moods. If im in a depressed mood i knw i need a sativa to lift me up, if im having a psychotic Rage episode i know i need a couchlock indica to throw me down and keep me sedated for awhile....All of this has been gained by experimentation and guaging the effects...
> 
> You odviously dont know anything about dosage as well. Your probably one of those people who think, you cant overdose on MJ. You most certainly can, and when it is taken with food its even harder to get the dosage right. Yes it wont kill you but I made some butter that really mucked me up and made me feel very very badly for awhile....Try it if you dont believe me.....


 

For the records Sativas arent good for depression i would not recommend marijuana for a depressed person or any other drug... But if he were TOO SMOKE OUT OF DEPRESSION i would think he would want a strong fruity indica


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## SFC (Dec 4, 2008)

It amazes me how quick some of you lose sight of the real prize. That "real" prize is the end to the war on personal freedom. Savvy?  

When that day comes there will still be people growing and selling. Will you still call them dealers? Or will you then call them entrepreneurs? 

Just like they want, you have jumped right into the chasm of division. Over what?  You sticking your nose where it doesn't belong. If a MM patient is not happy with his, or her caregiver they have the option of finding another, or going to a dispensary.  What we don't need is someone forcing their idea of a fair price on everyone else. If the rewards are not worth the risk you will have like said above (everyone back on the street).  

Let the market sort it out. The more MJ that is out there the lower the demand will be,and that will lower costs, and that alone.


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