# The Legal Loop-Hole in Plant Counts.



## StoneyBud (Aug 29, 2009)

A thought just entered my mind about the plant count limits imposed by the Medical Marijuana Laws in each State in the USA that has adopted the stance of Medical Marijuana.

"One-Root-System-Equals-One-Plant"

I have no idea if that is how the laws in the various States look at how plants are counted, but I see no way of getting around that statement.

I was watching "Bizarre Foods" with Andrew Zimmerman, and he was in West Virginia looking at a type of mushroom that can actually grow for MILES as one entity.

This got me thinking...

I have taken a Marijuana plant and stripped it's leaves from the bottom third of the plant, during vegetative growth indoors in soil and then buried the stem by slowly pulling it over using LST until it was lower than the surface of the top level of soil. The plant then converted that stem into a large root that more roots then grew from.

The side branches of that stem then became new colas. They acted just like center colas. The process took me almost a year to complete and I had 6 main colas that originated from a single plant via it's modified root system.

At the time, I thought it was kind of interesting, but saw no point in doing this. However, now that the law allows for the growth of marijuana plants, BASED on plant count, I see where this could be done on a larger scale.

If done to gain Host plants, this method could legally give a grower as many Hosts as they wanted. Each plant could be trained to provide a dozen "branches" that were each connected to the same root system of the same single plant.

From the surface, it would "look" like 20 plants, but in actuality, it would be twenty branches of the same plant. Plant count = 1

It's slow to set up, but if kept in perpetual vegetative state, it could be a way to have as many "Hosts" as you wanted to have.

I'd forgotten about this experiment until I saw that show about the mushroom plant. Then I said to myself, "Hell, I made a single MJ plant do that same thing once". 

Food-For-Thought for you Medical Marijuana growers who use clones.

I thought you might find this interesting.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2009)

i been doin this to my bonzai mom i got stoney. that is if it wat i think ya talkin bout. i revegged a plant for a mom and left 4 side branches on her . i bent her sideways and repotted her 3 diff times since and been puttin her deeper each time and now its startin to get close to lookin like 4 diff lil plants. i got one branch buried up to where it shoots up branchin. and other 3 are just at soil level. next repot they'll be layin in the soil tehn. and soon im guessin tehy'll start rooting themselves...


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## StoneyBud (Aug 30, 2009)

zipflip said:
			
		

> i been doin this to my bonzai mom i got stoney. that is if it wat i think ya talkin bout. i revegged a plant for a mom and left 4 side branches on her . i bent her sideways and repotted her 3 diff times since and been puttin her deeper each time and now its startin to get close to lookin like 4 diff lil plants. i got one branch buried up to where it shoots up branchin. and other 3 are just at soil level. next repot they'll be layin in the soil tehn. and soon im guessin tehy'll start rooting themselves...


That's exactly what I'm talking about, zipflip. You'll soon have five main colas growing from the same root system. That's one plant, not five plants.

If a person was allowed only so many plants by law, that would be a way to stretch the value of one plant. If also tracked step by step as a record, that record could also be used legally if need be.

Just a thought for those that could take advantage of it.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2009)

but of course you'll definately be lookn at more veg time(length) .
 but im talkin bout my mom that is like this. but yeah she has four main shoots/branches on her that almost under soil now makin it look like 4 lil stout plants in one container. :-I
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=126571&d=1249935825
pic of her whle bak after her second root trim and haircut. she my sexy lil bonzai.  ive since then put soil on top  to where just the tops teh branches barely show.  and next rot trim im guess i'll have her all under soil and she'll be rootin tehm branches.
  on day i will flower her out again for sure. and will do it so she gets single cola branches only on each vs a bush :hubba:
  she's been flowered already once and wil flower her again this fall/winter and reveg her again and keep her for clones a round or two tehn prep her for outdoors next year.
  then i'll grow her into a monster bush.
  i been ogglin 4U's mom he had in that cage :hubba: got me eager to try same thing now too


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## kaotik (Aug 30, 2009)

good thought, but really, what's the advantage of this over like a scrog or a highly LST plant though?
i've never tried this, but from your experiment it seems like it'd take quite a while to establish it to yeild as much as a few well trained plants i'd think.


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## StoneyBud (Aug 30, 2009)

kaotik said:
			
		

> good thought, but really, what's the advantage of this over like a scrog or a highly LST plant though?


I thought I made that clear in my post....

If you are in a medical marijuana state that allows only "this many" Host plants, then you could grow one heck of a lot more host plants (above ground) then you could if they were actually separate plants.

It would take some time to develop a plant that had a joined root system like that but it could protect you from a bust later for having too many host plants.

They couldn't convict you of having too many, if they were really only one plant.


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## kaotik (Aug 30, 2009)

yeah i got that m8.. i'm just saying by the time it's established, you could've harvested much much more off of 5 well trained plants anyway.

i know what you're saying with the loop hole that it's only 1 plant, it's great in that aspect.
i just think it's a long wait for that 1 plant(s  ) to get to a good size to actually harvest more than 5 trained plants would've, so you don't really gain anything there (not for atleast a couple years anyway)
and if used as a mother.. well, you shouldn't need nearly that many clones, if you can only grow 5 plants.
i dunno maybe i'm misunderstanding 'host' ?


lots of soil.. i imagine it wouldn't be mobile, so it would be vegged in the same room it's bloomed in.


all i'm saying  i agree it counters the loophole great (and would be one heck of a site to see)    i just don't think it really gets you ahead to be worth it.. or atleast not for quite a while.


*now if you wanna get into experiments with that and grafting.. well that would be amazing..  30 strains from 1 root system


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## zipflip (Aug 31, 2009)

but in the end it would help ya imo. if say ya sacrificed havesting 1 less plant each pull for the last few months of the cold season to prep one plant for the outdoor season comin up and doin it this way you would easily come out wit wat would look like 4 xmas trees in a square shape if say done like the one i pictured in the link i osted above.
 but hence this is my intentions wit this lovely lady pictred also net year for outdoor. until tehn she my mom is all. but i figure i'd harvest then 4 times wat i would off of one single plant started traditionally for the outdoor season wit hardly any time indoors prior to boot.
   plus it will make life easier on myseelf when having to grow out in the sticks and takin care of/lookin after one plant verses half a dozen or so smaller plants. 
  but im on the same idea as ya stoney and i say if  a guy can efficiently supply himself wit 1 lass his limit for few months to prep one single plant on the side like such that it would then pay off in the end i believe.
  but then ya need wats called patience LOL somethin so many of us dont have but do learn in time wit growing LOL


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## smokingjoe (Aug 31, 2009)

Interesting although logically I think I'd just take my chances and grow 2-3 times in the time taken to train the plant.  That said I won't go to jail for a small number of plants.


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## StoneyBud (Aug 31, 2009)

smokingjoe said:
			
		

> Interesting although logically I think I'd just take my chances and grow 2-3 times in the time taken to train the plant. That said I won't go to jail for a small number of plants.


They would be "HOST" plants for taking clones off of. You grow them once and keep them as host plants.

It would make no sense at all to grow them this way for harvesting buds. If you look again at my first post, you'll see the words:

"If done to gain Host plants, this method could legally give a grower as many Hosts as they wanted."


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## zipflip (Aug 31, 2009)

heres my bonzai mom done up . just taken last nite.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 31, 2009)

Good post Stoney. Some clone vendors kinda do something similar.

BlueSky in Oakland sells thier clones with 6 "clones" per 4"x"4" rockwool cubes.
So, if you look at it, it is really only one cube, hence "one plant", but they are actually 6 clones, you have to take apart the cubes in oprder to seperate each "clone".


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## StoneyBud (Aug 31, 2009)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Good post Stoney. Some clone vendors kinda do something similar.
> 
> BlueSky in Oakland sells thier clones with 6 "clones" per 4"x"4" rockwool cubes.
> So, if you look at it, it is really only one cube, hence "one plant", but they are actually 6 clones, you have to take apart the cubes in oprder to seperate each "clone".


 
I was hoping you'd post on this.

What is the rule in Cali for the number of "Host" plants you can have? Is it seperated in that way or is it just "Total Number of Plants"?


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## tcbud (Aug 31, 2009)

California is allowed 24 in vedge, and 6 in flower.  Counties can change those numbers upwards, but not downwards.  Humbolt is 99 indoor or 10x10 canopy outdoor.  Some counties stay with the State Guidlines, some dont.


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## zipflip (Sep 1, 2009)

> Humbolt is 99 indoor or 10x10 canopy outdoor.


 sounds like this where i need to be :hubba:


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## NorCalHal (Sep 1, 2009)

TCBud is correct, 24 vedge, 6 flowering. But, as she said, a Doctors Rec or County/City laws overide the State Minimum.


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## StoneyBud (Sep 1, 2009)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> TCBud is correct, 24 vedge, 6 flowering. But, as she said, a Doctors Rec or County/City laws overide the State Minimum.


This is the count allowed "per/patient" that a grower is providing for?

I know next to nothing about laws concerning MJ in Cali.

Is there a max cured weight per/patient that also increases for a grower that gets more people to provide for?


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## StoneyBud (Sep 1, 2009)

In fact, is there a plain english version of the Califoria laws about growing and selling marijuana to people who have the Doctors recommendations?

The legal mumbo-jumbo ones I've read so far are a mass of: "The party of the first part and the party of the second part are on the afore mentioned parties party's party location if they are part of the first part on the second Tuesday of the month."
 :holysheep: 

hehe, I'm looking for the one "I" can understand.   :smoke1:


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## umbra (Sep 1, 2009)

If I'm not mistaken Cali kind of did away with caretaker status. They redefined what it was, and not many people qualify. So they are all part of a collective of some sort. As a member of a collective, they can grow for themselves and any excess can be transferred to other members of that collective. Technically, they can not sell them for profit, but they can recoop expenses incurred to grow + their time. Most are going by less 99 plants, and you are good. Don't live there, but go there on business quite a bit.


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## NorCalHal (Sep 1, 2009)

OK Stoney...now we are getting tricky.....

First to answer your weight question. 1/2 lb dried per person. It does increase with the number of folks. This also can be overidden by a Doctor who CAN reccomend a higher plant and weight count.
Most of the issues I have seen with local LEO is allways about plant numbers, I do not hear much about weight. But, then again, as soon as weight is ready, it is gone for the most part. Not many folks sit on weight.

Say you and your wife/significant other or roomate (all living in same household) has thier reds also. You CAN do a collective grow between all folks living in the same residence with no paperwork needed to be filed with the State. 

If you are wanting to grow for folks outside your residence, the legally, you must file as a non-profit and go from there. If you file as a non profit, there are NO limits on the amount of folks who can be part of your collective grow.

So, if you have 20 friends with recs, and you all get 60 plant limits..well...you will be growing ALOT of herb. Just do it correctly and pay the State thier share.

The "caregiver" status was shot down a year ago or so. A Caregiver is now defined as someone who takes overall responsibility for the persons well being, not just supplying MMJ. 

Alot of folks are still walking the thin grey line, as it is a little discomforting to stick your head out of the sand and say to the State and local officials that you re growing herb for multiple folks and disclosing the location. Well, at least for me living in a Non MMJ friendly county.

There is still ALOT of fear of Federal LEO. No one is scared of the State/Locals at all, but they can pick up the phone if they want and inform the Feds of any grow larger then 99 plants.


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## NorCalHal (Sep 1, 2009)

Here is what you are looking for Stoney.

hXXp://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n1601_medicalmarijuanaguidelines.pdf


Directly from the Attorney General of California regarding sales of MMJ


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## NorCalHal (Sep 1, 2009)

I CAN'T wait for you to read this and give us your take of it.


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## NorCalHal (Sep 1, 2009)

From the California State Board of Equalization regarding MMJ Sales.

They just want thier cut too!

hXXp://www.boe.ca.gov/news/pdf/medseller2007.pdf


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## NorCalHal (Sep 1, 2009)

Sorry for the multiple posts...but it gets trickier and trickier (is that a word? lol) the bigger you go.

To get down, you must also learn the laws of how a Non-Profit works, which I am still learning. There are ways to get paid legally. If you are heading the Non-Profit, you are entitled to be compensated for your time and efforts. This means you can give yourself a salary that is comparable to what any CEO makes in a Non=Profit organization, I wonder what the head of United Way makes in a year.....


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## StoneyBud (Sep 1, 2009)

Thanks Umbra and NCH, that helps me understand what's current now in Cali.

How do they govern "processed" weed like Oil or cooked goods like cookies or candy? I understand that the co-op's all have those now.

Hey, I watch "WEEDS" hhehehee

Also, if Joe Blow were running a co-op grow of 1000 plants, like most "non-profit" orgs that I know of, he's entitled to a "fair" wage for his efforts. The non-profit status holds, even though he is making a wage for his hours "on the job".

Who sets that wage and it's parameters within that non-profit organization and what does the law say about it's limits?


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## NorCalHal (Sep 1, 2009)

From what I have learned so far, it is the "Non-Profit" entity that cannot make monies.

The "employees" and management can make a living.

As far as edibles and the like, I am not too sure, but I do know that it is all legal under Cali law and is treated as such.
There are no health and safety codes yet implemented to govern the distribution. Any schmoe can bake some pot cookies and sell them to a club.

I really don't think that the State wants to touch governing Edibles with a 10 foot pole.


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## StoneyBud (Sep 1, 2009)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> From what I have learned so far, it is the "Non-Profit" entity that cannot make monies.
> 
> The "employees" and management can make a living.
> 
> ...


 
Let's you and I start a candy making business! We'll sell it by the ton!

Hmmmmmmm, choc/peanut flavored little cups in wax paper.... oh, hehehe


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## tcbud (Sep 1, 2009)

NCH, the head of United Way makes at least a six figure.  I asked a friend once who worked collecting money at his work for them....Standard Oil was the company he worked for...back a few decades ago...and even then it was a six figure.  Heads of Non Profits all make a real good living.

Think what the guy down at Harborside makes...I mean dang....Just from going to their web site, I imagine he is pulling down a good six figures, prolly like 
$250,000 a year.

thanks for those links too.


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## zipflip (Sep 1, 2009)

> Hmmmmmmm, choc/peanut flavored little cups in wax paper....


 that sounds so delish right now MMMMMMM
  put me down for 3 dozen them lil choc cup thingies


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## tcbud (Sep 1, 2009)

In my county....all refined THC is "said"  to be illegal by the law enforcement/supervisors...no hash, no oils will be tolerated.  If found, they say you will be charged with possession.  This comes from info I have read in the local paper here.


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## zipflip (Sep 1, 2009)

bUt you can grow bud? :huh: and they hash ya for hash?  wierd!


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## HippyInEngland (Sep 1, 2009)

Has anyone ever tried grafting plants onto a single stock?

Just a thought.

eace:


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## zipflip (Sep 1, 2009)

idk but i have honestly been thinkin bout it sometime when i end up rooting more clones than i need or have room for. maybe play around wit em a lil bit.
  just would like to find some testimony or documentation of grafting of MJ tho. would be nice to read/see/hear botu tho.
  so :yeahthat: im curious too 
:


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## StoneyBud (Sep 1, 2009)

zipflip said:
			
		

> that sounds so delish right now MMMMMMM
> put me down for 3 dozen them lil choc cup thingies


 
Hahahahahahaa, Reeces would prolly sue me!

I could do like in that old movie "Coming to America" with McDougals/Mcdonalds.

That movie is classic! I have it on VHS still....

At least it isn't on 8-Track! Hahahahahahahaaha
:holysheep: :smoke1:


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## umbra (Sep 1, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> Hahahahahahaa, Reeces would prolly sue me!
> 
> I could do like in that old movie "Coming to America" with McDougals/Mcdonalds.
> 
> ...



Beta format


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## zipflip (Sep 1, 2009)

> I have it on VHS still....


 LOL   
hey, every now an then i get bored some nites an break into the old box of vhs tapes still.  
  its crazy seein the difference between blue ray now after not watchin a vhs for how long and seein one after forever. LOL
  wow !


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## nvthis (Sep 5, 2009)

Stoney, something we in Cali have been seeing more and more of... Folks in rural areas just not paying attention to plant count's at all. 12 veg, 6 flower. That what my county law states. However I can find any number of gardens in my area with 10, 20 or even 30+ plants for one reg. Fact is that with everything going down in the State parks, public properties and super massive illegal private grows, no one is even paying attention to the small stuff. They can fly right over and it is almost an absolute given that they will keep going and never come back. Unless you have garnered attention from some other purpose, LEO won't even look your way. It's all about getting the BIG kills right now and 15 or 20 plants isn't even note worthy. That's what it has come to.

And I am currenty budding 5, incase you were wondering


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## NorCalHal (Sep 5, 2009)

You got that right Nvthis...my county is also 6/12, but I have had covo's and run ins with leo and all stated if under 99....thry leave it alone.
This is due to being dragged to court and losing...everytime...


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## greenfriend (Sep 5, 2009)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> You got that right Nvthis...my county is also 6/12, but I have had covo's and run ins with leo and all stated if under 99....thry leave it alone.
> This is due to being dragged to court and losing...everytime...


 
whats your opinion Hal, of plant limits legit tax paying mj business such as clone retailers.  obviously if you count a rooted clone as a plant, a clone retailer like Blue Sky has 4000 plants at any given time - yet nobody messes with them...

The law allows 12 immature plants per patient served at the business, but Blue Sky has no way of counting how many different patients they serve, plus each person can pick up 72 clones at a time


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## StoneyBud (Sep 5, 2009)

So if I'm following you guys right, then the only time the cops might uphold the literal count is when combining it (stacking charges) with other violations to ensure a solid bargaining chip within the court system.

If you sell only to those who are authorized by law to purchase it from you, then the literal amounts of plants is overlooked unless you become a problem in some way.

Would that be an accurate statement?


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## NorCalHal (Sep 6, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> So if I'm following you guys right, then the only time the cops might uphold the literal count is when combining it (stacking charges) with other violations to ensure a solid bargaining chip within the court system.
> 
> If you sell only to those who are authorized by law to purchase it from you, then the literal amounts of plants is overlooked unless you become a problem in some way.
> 
> Would that be an accurate statement?


 
That is correct Stoney. But again...we all know, if they want you, they will get you.
As long as you are not a gangster and conduct yourself well and your neighbors all like you and so on so forth...you should be fine.


Nvthis...plant count at clubs are mute points as the Clubs have 1000's of members which allow them to "absorb" thier plant numbers also.

So, in Oakland, if a clib has 1000 patients, the "club" can possess 72,000 plants "leagally" as the plant count in Oakland is 72 per person.

Catch my drift......


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## nvthis (Sep 6, 2009)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Catch my drift......


 Got it


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