# The mini grow



## Smokeaholic (Jan 19, 2016)

Grow on the down low and cheap

Veg light
CFL 60W Perfect Daylight x 4 40
Drop Cord $10
4 socket adapter $10

Bloom light
wing reflector gave 20 for almost a weak ago
Digital Electronic Dimmable Ballast 250 watt $70

Tent
24x24x36 Mini Plant Grow Tent $50

Fan/Carbon filter(Needs tape on filter to make 6")
Fan $21
Filter x 2 $74

Hey what does everybody think on this grow build list so far? its sadly not going to be till mid next month till i have the funds to spent on this but i was thinking on input before i lighten my pocket even more. on the autos i was think i could get away with just running the autos and the month after that i plan on running co2 into the equation.


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## zem (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi there Smokeaholic and welcome to MP. I will try and give you my remarks from the info that you provided:
CFL's are better for cloning than for vegging since they are not very efficient and release heat which is many times required in cloning and seddling chambers. for vgging you can go with fluro tubes.
I would run regular flowering plants instead of autos. what is your reasoning behind choosing autos?
drop the co2 idea altogether, you need to have a dialed in grow before you can ever consider using it, besides on such a scale it is not worth it at all.
I hope this helps


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 19, 2016)

reasoning behind co2 i thought you could run higher temps and not get hermies.i plan on a soil grow with bonzia and auto grow but i am still not fimilliar enough to know when to flip so i dont get a over leafed canopy. i plan on LST a scrog with the auto and because of the early harvest rates some of these autos like amphetimine 45 days from seed ro harvest.
Thanks for the input it has been noted.
(edit)
now that i read through the 400 watt perpetual grow you done.i might just take some more points on the bonzi grow how long do you beg for just long enough to get them 4-8 inch tall?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 19, 2016)

I have to say that I agree with zem 100%.  I would not do a LST scrog with an auto.  First you have no control over when they flower and I highly doubt that you can get enough of a canopy to scrog.  Secondly, autos should be raised as stress free as possible.  As they live x number of days any stress will set them back and affect yield.  Also, plan on the plant taking longer than the breeder says.  The estimate is based on a well dialed in space and they still seem to underestimate the flowering times. 

I am not sure what you mean by an over leafed canopy?  The more foliage, the more bud site.  The more bud sites, the more bud. 

I doubt that a $21 fan is going to be adequate to ventilate your space.  What kind of fan is it exactly?  Your ventilation is almost as important as your lighting.  And also do not understand why you would want/need 2 filters.  What kind of filters are they and where are you going to put them?  What kind of reflector does your light have?  Even though it is only 250W, it will generate heat.  If an air coolable hood is available, I highly suggest you go with that.

Forget the CO2.  There are more reasons than I want to type out right now.  But suffice it to say that CO2 is complicated and your money would be better spent on upgrading other equipment.


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 19, 2016)

The reason behind the 2 filters is so that no matter where i place it there will be no mold spores going into the grow room as where im at (Temp rent) the basement has mold and all the other rooms are taken up i have bleeched it several times so i figured just to ensure air quality. The fan is a 250 cfm so put one on both filters if i go the route of using 2 to ensure air quality? so i couldnt just do real bushy indica in it? ive seen ppl with a plant in a old dinosaur computer shell with cfls wasnt that great but it worked. i am also wanting to maintain a level of stealth with it too so. also by over leafed i ment over grown but hey im still a noob to this i have only been around low end rigged up stuff.


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## WeedHopper (Jan 19, 2016)

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=68440


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 19, 2016)

Alright so i decide to just get rid of that open pay check next month all together what about a 2.5x2.5x5 with a 24x13.5 hood air cooled with a 600 watt hps with 4 10.0 ucb 20 watt lights 2 on each side(idea to produce more thc)? 600 watts is the highest i am willing to go so i dont piss of any house hold i throw it in.


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## Rosebud (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi smoke, welcome to MP.  These folks know of what they speak. Listen and learn. Co2 is not for beginners. Remember too, the good dank that we grow can go for 300 bucks an ounce. But you don't grow that caliber of pot on the cheap side. We can help you go cheaper but what is you goal?


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 19, 2016)

my goal is to turn out enough pot to hold me over on my smoking habits and sell a lil to supplement a shitty job how much could i turn out on a 600 watt hps soil grow and is that idea with the 20 watt t5 10.0 uvb bulbs a good one or another dud.
Thank you all with the previous and future information i promise it isn't in vein.


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## zem (Jan 21, 2016)

Hey Smokes  I like the fact that you take advice from the experienced growers here, this will be the most useful thing in your quest as a lot of new growers have to try for themselves and fail before they do what they were advised to do. a 600watt can cover about 3x4 area. If and when done right, i would estimate a yield from 600w hps to average about 1 ounce per week...


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## WeedHopper (Jan 21, 2016)

Also i dont think those 10,000k tubes are good for vegging. Those are for aquariums.  You need 6500k for vegging. A minimum of 3000 lumens psf for vegging and 5000 lumens psf for Flowering.


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## Rosebud (Jan 21, 2016)

When i ran a 600 and a 400 hps i averaged about 3 ounces per plant. I usually did 4-5 plants in 5 gallon smart pots.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 21, 2016)

Regardless of the CFMs of the fan, it does not generate enough power to push or pull air through a carbon filter.  This is a duct BOOSTER fan.  It is not meant to be a stand alone fan and, trust me on this, it will not do the job.  You also need the fan to be able to cool a 400 or 600W light.  It is just not meant to do the job that you are asking it to do.  If you go with the 600W light, you will need a 6" centrifuge type fan.  Something like this:  [ame]http://smile.amazon.com/Active-Air-400-Inline-6-Inch/dp/B00KWYJQYA/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1453399350&sr=8-7&keywords=6%22+fan[/ame].  You will also need a fan speed controller.  Ventilation is for more than controlling odor and heat.  Plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on.  If you get a good fan, you can control both the heat and air exchange with one fan.  You also do not need a carbon filter on your intake.  Any kind of filter material over the intake(s) will suffice to keep icky things out of your space.  The carbon filter is needed to control odor.  Buy just one filter and use the money you save to upgrade your fan.

Forget the T5 10,000K lights.  They will do nothing to improve yield.

Yield is dependent on the several things, your light, how well your space is dialed in, your experience, and your strain.  Yield is often described as grams per watts.  When first starting out, new growers will generally get between 1/4 and 1/2 gram per watt.  As your experience increases and you are able to get your grow dialed in better, your yield should go up.  Experienced growers with a good strain can get 1 gram per watt or even a bit more.  There is a learning curve to this growing thing, so don't be disappointed if your first grows are not stellar.  You will get better with time.  

I think that you will be a lot happier with the larger tent, but if possible, go with bigger.  A 600W  would be great in a 3 x 3 or 3 x 4 space.   More plants does not mean more yield, so don't overcrowd.  Overcrowded spaces will actually produce less and the buds will tend to be lighter and airier.


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 21, 2016)

As of recently i decide to build my own COB lights I'm going to use those on the mini grow which i decide to go for a 2x2x5 foot tent. I still plan on having a HPS tent but that will be later on, what would you all recommend for the led grow. I know its about a must to scrog with those i will be making a 200 watt LED COB it provides almost a full spectrum.The theory behind the 10k t5s is to induce more THC production. They wouldn't of been ran on veg cycle.
I was also planning on one plant per square foot.
Thanks for the input.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 22, 2016)

One sq ft per plant is not very much room for each plant.  I have a space that is almost 20 sq ft and I usually run 6-8 plants, tops.  Four sq ft is quite a small space--if you can go bigger, I highly recommend that you do.

I have no recommendations for your LED.  LED technology is beyond me.  I have a hard time even reading literature on how to pick out a good LED.  I cannot even imagine trying to figure out spectrums and angles.


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 22, 2016)

So one plant in the 4 square foot with 200 watts would be sufficient? Its that where im at I cant have anything big at all due to space and money issues, that will have to wait at least 2-3 months before I get into another house with less people because a friend of mine jack daniels told me to go off roading with my car and now i have a bent drive shaft. So thats taking money from the build now I have to have priorities, which I should of thought at the moment. I havent even been to a shop yet either.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 23, 2016)

If you are running clones you could probably run 4 plants (as long as they are not rangy sativas) as you can flower them when they are small.  With seeds you are going to want to wait to flower until the plants are sexually mature.  And some plants can get quite large before that happens.  Strain plays a big part in the size of a plant.  

But your light is pretty much going to determine yield, not plant count.  More plants does not mean more bud.  If plants are overcrowded, you can actually get less yield.

If all that happened is a bent driveshaft after you and Jack went off-roading, consider yourself lucky.  Grandma is going to admonish you for even getting into a car when Jack was in charge.


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## bud88 (Jan 23, 2016)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> If all that happened is a bent driveshaft after you and Jack went off-roading, consider yourself lucky.  Grandma is going to admonish you for even getting into a car when Jack was in charge.



Heck yeah!


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 24, 2016)

Thanks for the concern THG and that is another good example of why weed needs to be fully legal because if I had some fine weed to puff on then, I most likely wouldn't of went riding.

I also have changed my grow room design it will be a 150 watt all in one hps for bloom with a 125 watt cfl wing for veg with a 2x2x4 room with only doing scrogs and autos in DWC. This will be strictly a personal grow. That 125 watt cfl should do just fine for mothers right? My idea is 1 regular plant at a time with a scrog or 4 autos at a time just let them grow, is that enough space?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 24, 2016)

I think that you will be happy with the HPS.  However, 150W is not going to be enough light for a 2 x 2 space.  You need a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft and most of us run more.  A 150W is only going to put out about 150,000 lumens, so only 75% of the minimum.  Check out a 250W or a 400W that is dimmable.  I understand that it is expensive to start up a grow and that a lot of us do not have much disposable income.  But your lighting more than any single one factor determines yield.  Scrimping on lighting always comes back to bite you in the behind.  

I also highly recommend getting a T5 over the CFL.  The T5 will put out about 50% more light for the same amount of electricity, give you closer intermodal spacing, and run cooler than the CFL.  And the 125 CFL will not provide enough light for 4 sq ft.  Something like this would work great and provide substantially more light than the CFL with just a small increase in electrical usage.  [ame]http://www.amazon.com/6lamps-DL826S-Fluorescent-Hydroponic-Fixture/dp/B00NMY4IWC/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1453657749&sr=8-15&keywords=2%27+t5+fixture[/ame]

Do you have a space to keep mothers?  I don't and so I do not keep mothers.  Rather, I take clones from clones.  Of course, if you grow autos you aren't going to have to worry about keeping mothers.


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 24, 2016)

How big do mothers get and I will take the advice on the t5s I was thinking on those but the cfl was cheaper for the more wattage but if lumens are more important for mothers I wouldn't mind spending just a lil more on those t5.

For the hps I will probably just get a cool tube 400 watt hps and assemble my own ballast which is VERY cheap to do but I was wanting to avoid but it seams it is the only logical way to achieve good yield with a cheap price.. Im wanting to save money on ducting so just use the scrubber hooked to the cool tube is that a good or bad idea?

I got a house on hold for me once I get more on my feet I will have room enough for a mother I think all depending on how big they get.

(EDIT)6:15 am
Well damn my plans changed yet again a new member of my circle has given me a 600 watt hps ballast i will be using now. No stickers or anything on it he just said it doesn't like mh so I will take him on it.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 25, 2016)

Look at it in lumens rather than watts.  The 125 watt CFL is going to emit around 7500 lumens.  So you would need 2 of these to adequately light a 2 x 2 space.  Whereas a 2' 6 tube T5 fixture will use 144W, but put out 15,000 lumens.  So, for 19 more watts, you are getting twice the light.  This is why CFLs are a bad choice for growing--it takes almost twice as much electricity to get the same amount of useable light.  I am with your friend though...I don't like MH.  I have 3 MH ballasts laying around that I no longer use as T5s work so much better for me.  

Unless the 600W ballast is dimmable, I don't think that you will be able to keep it cool enough for a 2 x 2 tent.  Did he also give you a hood, bulbs, and cords?  Those things may run more than buying the T5 I linked.

Ducting is cheap, so don't scrimp here.  Also do not connect the carbon filter until you need it.  The filter will cut down the cfms of your fan and no reason to use it if you do not need it.  Your plants will probably not get smelly enough to warrant the filter until they start to flower.  I also anticipate that you will not have enough room in a 2 x 2 tent to connect the filter directly to the cooltube.  In fact, make sure that the cooltube will fit in your space.  I have a cool tube that is too large to use easily in a tent that is 32" x 32". 

You talk about keeping mothers, but nothing of a space to clone and veg in.  What are your plans for that?  If you have 2 spaces, I would personally set one up for cloning and vegging with a T5 and the other for flowering with the HPS.  This way you can harvest about every 2 months or so.  IMO, this is a better use of space, rather than keeping mothers and then using the other tent to both veg and flower--about a 4 month process.


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 25, 2016)

Well my friend advised against cool tube so I will be getting a small standard air cooled hood with a 600 watt hps. The ballast isn't dimmable so he said I would want to get a 9 sq ft tent which isn't much more money than the 4 sq ft one actually, he has extra ducting(4 ft of 6") he said I could grab whenever just no extra fans or filters.
As for the mother I wasn't going to put her in a tent just leave her out with the t5s feeding her. To offset things a lil use a 4 lamp t5 for the mother and a 2 lamp t5 for clones? just to keep the power bill a lil more agreeable when I get to the new house, because I'm just not going to grow in the one I'm at right now.
I'm also planning on making a coliadal silver generator it will cost about 40 dollars so I can make my own femmed seeds.

Thank you THG for your guidance and anyone else who has helped.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 26, 2016)

Please please slow down.  Get your grow set up and going and get a few grows under your belt.  Learn what you are doing and what it takes to get a plant from seed to harvest.  You are getting the cart before the horse.  Rather than worry about breeding and trying to make fem seeds, concentrate on getting your grow set up and dialed in.  I think that you will be a lot happier with the larger tent.  Going to a 3 x 3 more than doubles your growing area.   

I am not a big fan of amateurs making fem seeds--I believe that is part of why we have a proliferation of hermies that we did not see in years back.  Put the $40 towards something you need now like a good fan.  You will need something like this with a 600W light:  [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Tjernlund-M-6-Booster-Hydroponic-Conditioning/dp/B005XNNYMU/ref=sr_1_9?ie=UTF8&qid=1453828586&sr=8-9&keywords=6%22+fan[/ame]  fan and this [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Active-Air-ACSC-Speed-Adjuster/dp/B007TFTITS/ref=pd_sim_328_1?ie=UTF8&dpID=41YWI41y7pL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR110%2C160_&refRID=0S68197SSZ0TRAPRPMWP[/ame] speed controller.  This will NOT work [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Tjernlund-EF-6-Duct-Booster-Fan/dp/B0000AXFP3/ref=sr_1_11?ie=UTF8&qid=1453828586&sr=8-11&keywords=6%22+fan[/ame].


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## Smokeaholic (Jan 26, 2016)

Thank you for this clarification on the fans.  I have been curious on a flood 3x3 flood table in a 4x4 tent that is what a friend recommends growing with.
For the femmed seeds all you do is spray 3days before flower flip and every 3 days after until it starts to pollinate itself it didn't sound that hard but i wasn't wanting to start selling seeds just having a stock pile of them this was more of an idea at this moment not an thing i will start with. all you need to make it is 2 pieces of silver since it wont be used for human consumption .92 will work like sterlin silver hooked to 12 volts left in water till it just starts to form slag then stop it.


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