# SCROG growers:  too many buds?



## dirtyolsouth (Aug 10, 2009)

Hi,

I haven't done a lot of SCROG grows but I thought I'd give it a whirl.  I've been trying to perfect different techniques for keeping my plants small yet productive.  I took a lollipopped Mazar clone and trained the branches under the chicken wire screen in the pic and have been cleaning up here and there when leaves block bud sites.  My screen is developing nice and it's at day 27 of 12/12 but I would like to get some opinions from guys who do SCROG grows as to preferred bud density...   

Do I need to thin this out some?  Thanks for any tips in advance.

Happy Growing!


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## jmansweed (Aug 10, 2009)

I grow Mazar myself. In the past I have use early trimming techniques to train the plant in the direction desired. Your's look great. I'd suggest continueing what-ever your doing. As fa as "thinning " it out. I'd suggest only trimming lower, obviously unproductive bud-sites and lower branches. The canopy your developing looks good to me. I'd avoid trimming any leaves from that area. Those leaves are your food production machines - with-out them production will suffer. Use this grow as a study for the next, maybe consider training the plant at an earlier stage so it can be left to flower out with-out additional "thinning" stress. They look great to me. Best of luck............


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## dr pyro (Aug 10, 2009)

i myself are in the beginning stages of this.do you just keep the branches under the screen or do you loop them threw each hole


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## dirtyolsouth (Aug 11, 2009)

Hi,

Thanks for the replies Jman & Dr Pyro...  I just grew the mother this clone came off of in my last ride.  It turned out killer but I wanted to try this to see if I can increase my yield and quality by evening out the canopy even more this time.  In the past I've used screens in larger grows but only when I've had to when buds were getting into the lights. 

I did a fair amount of perusing SCROG threads online and it looks like it's going well in my garden but if there's anyone around here that does a lot of SCROGS and has any advice it's more than welcome.  I normally never remove any leaves either Jman but many of the SCROG guides tell you to fight your instincts and to pinch off any leaves covering up a bud site, being careful not to do too much at one time to limit the stress but to do this especially when they are just developing below the screen.  From what I understand it's also a timing issue and it looks like it's working out pretty good on the Mazar.  Ideally you want to almost fill the screen with growth and then switch to flower at the proper point to get the right amount of stretch to fill it the rest of the way and by the time the stretch is complete hopefully your screen is full and here comes the buds...   And that's where I'm at now and that's where the density question comes in for me...   I'll probably look up some more SCROG guides onine and see what I can find.  At this point it's pretty much under control but as the buds grow above the screen the leaves are going to get bigger and I'd think there's an optimum density where enough buds get ample light without removing leaves later in flower.

Doc...  I used twist tie material to tie down the main branches not far from center and I didn't tie it down too much elsewhere but everyday I would poke any growth above the screen gently back under it and to encourage the 4 main branches and side branches were spread out below the screen.  I only used ties if a branch didn't want to cooperate...

Happy Growing!


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## 4u2sm0ke (Aug 11, 2009)

:ciao:   looks great..I wouldnt do any thinning after 2 week of 12/12..but do thin dureing the veg time low  to allow air movement more easyly...Ive done reading and wanted to try it outdoors..here mine..good luck  take care and be safe

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41691


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## dirtyolsouth (Aug 11, 2009)

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> :ciao:   looks great..I wouldnt do any thinning after 2 week of 12/12..but do thin dureing the veg time low  to allow air movement more easyly...Ive done reading and wanted to try it outdoors..here mine..good luck  take care and be safe
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41691



Thanx 4u2....    

I've been keeping an eye on your 'hedges!'  Killer grow bud...  Someday I'll probably live in Cali again and it's my dream to do some outdoor growing in my own backyard...   Someday!   An outdoor scrog would probably be killer...   I'll be in the front row for the upcoming flower show! 

Peace!


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## smokingjoe (Aug 11, 2009)

DOS; they look great.  Did yours stretch like crazy in the first couple of weeks of flower?

You should be right with your canopy, ideally probably a little lense dense, but provided you have low relative humidity you will be ok.  Good idea to keep a strong fan circulating air, from the underneath pointing up into the canopy if you can.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 11, 2009)

I have only done 1 scrog, but I think it looks great.


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## dirtyolsouth (Aug 11, 2009)

smokingjoe said:
			
		

> DOS; they look great.  Did yours stretch like crazy in the first couple of weeks of flower?
> 
> You should be right with your canopy, ideally probably a little lense dense, but provided you have low relative humidity you will be ok.  Good idea to keep a strong fan circulating air, from the underneath pointing up into the canopy if you can.



Hi smokingjoe and everyone...:ciao: 

Your avatar ALWAYS brings a smile to my face!   Nice.  With my latest grow location limited to a closet I'm always trying to find ways to keep the plants compact yet productive so I've been messing with a 'growth inhibitor' product called 'Humboldt County's Own Bushmaster' and it's made by a Cali company called Eel River Hydroponics.  It's made out of some kind of kelp (seaweed) extraction.  It's a bit like 'weird science' but it is a naturally based kelp product and so far I've used it on 4 different strains:  Avalanche (Ind/Sat X w/very sativa structure and indica fat buds), White Widow, Poison Afghan (very sativa x very indica and a real stretcher), and the Mazar scrog in this thread.

You have to follow directions closely and you apply it either when you put them into 12/12 or you can wait and do it anytime before flowers show for best results.  You do a routine of spraying the night before the Bushmaster with a liquid kelp product like MaxiCrop or Nutrizyme.  The next night you can apply the BM by watering it into the soil or as a foliar spray application.  Since it's a growth inhibitor and I plan to compost and reuse my soil I opted to try it out as a foliar spray so it doesn't stay in the soil for future grows.  

This stuff is amazing imho...   I gave all the plants 3 foliar applications over a week's time, alternating with MaxiCrop foliar applications.  I sprayed the Mazar scrog and it was the smallest of the four plants because I was trying to time ending the stretch with filling up the screen and so far so good.  All of the plants still go through a stretch with BM but not as much and most of them grew another 4-8" vertically and then put on the brakes.  BM is designed to halt vertical growth and help switch all the plant's energies to flowering.  The best part is it allows me to veg the plants longer and control the vert growth.  BM is pricey...  $35 for 8 oz and it's going to last forever because the foliar application rate is only 1ml/gal and I used 10 drops in a 2 qt spray bottle for four plants.

Here's a pic of the Avalanche plant...  it's almost done... it's got a few amber trichs so maybe another 10 days.  The buds have really swelled up the last week and I had to stake up the spindly branches...

Anyhooo...   thanks for the suggestions and comments everyone!


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 11, 2009)

Looks great from the top.. I didnt cut a single fan leaf on my GWS scrog, just the bottom. You can move the fan leaves out of the way.. they wont mind


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## smokingjoe (Aug 11, 2009)

I avoid cutting off fan leaves like the plague; unless of course they are unhealthy looking and will ultimately fall off anyway.


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## dirtyolsouth (Aug 12, 2009)

Hi everyone...

Thanks for stopping by the thread and chiming in.  Thanks for all the great SCROG ideas and observations Aplasia...  I think I'll just let it rock from here.

Peace!


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 12, 2009)

dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> Hi everyone...
> 
> Thanks for stopping by the thread and chiming in. Thanks for all the great SCROG ideas and observations Aplasia... I think I'll just let it rock from here.
> 
> Peace!


 
Thats right,  no need to tuck anymore....you runnin a journal mang?


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## Strawberry Cough (Aug 12, 2009)

Though this SCROG technique looks interesting, I don't understand what is the point to retard the growth of your plants.


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## smokingjoe (Aug 13, 2009)

Strawberry Cough said:
			
		

> Though this SCROG technique looks interesting, I don't understand what is the point to retard the growth of your plants.


 
Once the screen is filled there is no need for futher stretch.  Retarding it at that point can allow the plant to concentrate on bulking up the buds.


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## dirtyolsouth (Aug 13, 2009)

Strawberry Cough said:
			
		

> Though this SCROG technique looks interesting, I don't understand what is the point to retard the growth of your plants.



Smokingjoe nailed it...   just look at him!   I could have flowered it smaller  with a smaller root structure and not use the Bushmaster and probably get close to the same fullness in the canopy but in theory with the increased veg and root zone it should bulk up a little more.  But I'll admit that the use of BM with a SCROG isn't necessary to control height just how much veg growth..

Peace!


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 13, 2009)

Strawberry Cough said:
			
		

> Though this SCROG technique looks interesting, I don't understand what is the point to retard the growth of your plants.


 
Scrog is the best way to utilize ALL of your light.


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## Strawberry Cough (Aug 17, 2009)

Why not just continually top and keep spliting the buds without regarding growth with a screen?  It seems a little like the way the Japanese used to retard the growth of women's feet by keeping them in shoes way too small.


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## dirtyolsouth (Aug 20, 2009)

Strawberry Cough said:
			
		

> Why not just continually top and keep spliting the buds without regarding growth with a screen?  It seems a little like the way the Japanese used to retard the growth of women's feet by keeping them in shoes way too small.



I'm the foot stuck in the shoe in this situation and it trickles right down to my plants.  It would be great if growing where I lived was legal but just like the majority of growers I live where you can get an orange jump suit and a suite courtesy of the state if you're caught growing weed.  It would be great if I had a nice space in a room and didn't have stuff my grow into a 2 x 4 x 8 closet but such is reality and until the man decides to do otherwise and stop persecuting this magic herb I'll keep doing whatever I have to in order to produce top quality meds in a less than ideal space. 

Peace!


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## robbiegy2k (Sep 15, 2009)

Not that i can make much of a judgement but it certainly looks good to me DOS   hopefully we'll see some pics nearer to harvest time


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## IRISH (Oct 26, 2009)

any updated pics dos?...


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## nvthis (Oct 27, 2009)

Yup Irish, I'm with you on that one!


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## dirtyolsouth (Oct 27, 2009)

Hi gang...

Well I'm a total schlub in this one...   At the time of harvest I had seedlings that were ready for sexing getting too big for my veg space and then....  In the 11th hour my WW started to spit out nanners....   so I remember harvesting the SCROG in a flurry of activity and alas... NO pics of the final screen...   

They didn't get much fatter above the screen but all the buds were very nicely and uniformly developed and dank...   I got around 3 oz off of her but god I HATE harvesting a screen of buds...  it's a real pain cuz the buds really grow into the chicken wire...   

Anyhoooo...  Onward & dankward...  no more SCROGS for me unless I have to hold buds out of the lights...

Peace!


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

hey dirty just got some questions. how big of an area did you do this in and what was your light size


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