# New grower trying something new (pertetual grow



## KoDak (Dec 6, 2013)

Im still a beginner. I have only grown in a 4x4 tent and switch it out from veg to flower. When in veg, I use the 4' 4light T5 light and in flower i use the same tent but with the 600hps light. The first time I only grew 3 plants. this past summer i did tent plants (it was kind of crowded in there but plants came out great) and this time, im doing 8 plants. Im looking into getting a 4x4 tent for flower (IM TRYING TO CREATE A PERPETUAL GROW). The guy at the hydro store said 4x4tent would be great to flower in and i should put TWO 600hps in there instead on one like i had in the 2x4 tent. Do that sound reasonable? 

I'm trying to do the perpetual grow, so when I get ready to put the plants that are in veg into the new flowering tent, i want some more plants (maybe 6 this time) going back into the veg tent.  

I DO NOT know how to do the clones so I ALWAYS start from seed, which means, Ill have to time this perfectly. I know i have to consider the height of the different strains and its flowering time for this to work. Does anyone do this who can share goods tips? thank you.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 7, 2013)

I'm no pro,but from what I've read. 600 HPS covers a 4x4 tent.  Also, that 4 bulb t5 isn't enough lumens for  4x4 tent. Add 1 more 4 bulb and you'll be good.

Hey guys look at me answering questions :joint: lol


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## WeedHopper (Dec 7, 2013)

:yeahthat: ya need more Lumens in your Vegging tent, Min of 3000 lums PSF.A 2x4 8 tube HOT5 puts out 40,000 lumens which is good for only 8sf of floor space,,you have 16sf. So you would need two of the 2X4 8tube HOT5 systems above.
 You could always go with a 1000watt if ya wanted more Lumens in your 4x4 Flower tent.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 7, 2013)

My understanding is that the old "everything" tent was 2 x 4 and that it will be the new vegging tent.  If that is correct, the 4 tube T5 will be great.

One of the things I have found in my grows is that my plants can only utilize so much light.  For instance, I have a space that is 3 x 6.6.  I have found that I get no better yield from 1200W (2 600W) than I do with a single 1000W.  I was going to add CO2, but decided that I really couldn't afford to do it right, it is kind of a pita and....I am just into of my flowering space during lights on numerous times.  I don't know if others reach this 'light threshold', but mine seems to be around 7000-7500 lumens per sq ft.  The plants just do not respond any better to lumen levels above that.  I would love to hear others chime in.


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## Locked (Dec 7, 2013)

I have flowered in a 4x4 tent with a single 600W HPS and have flowered in the same tent with a 600W and a 400W and I will never go back to a single 600W. Wasn't enough light or coverage for me.  Although a 4x4 only needs 80,000 lumens for flower, that is a minimum. So what you tend to get are minimal results. I prefer shooting for the 7500 lumens a square foot mark. 1000W's of HPS or better achieves this. Another positive is your light coverage will be way better with 2 600's.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 7, 2013)

I wouldn't put 8 plants in a 4x4 tent if I were you, unless you are using nonfemmed seeds and plan to cull the males. I never put more than 4 plants in a 4x4 but I like to grow mine to be about 2-4ft tall and bush them out a lot.

One 600whps will just do for flowering a 4x4 but a 1kwhps or 2 600whps will give great results. The hot5 4' fixtures are definitely the way to go for veg but you will need at least 12 bulbs to get the minimum light for the 4x4. So either 2 6bulb fixtures or 2 8bulb fixtures.

If you want to do a more "continual grow" then having 2 tents so that you can have plants vegging while the others are flowering eliminates veg time. But if you want to have a more "perpetual harvest" then you would only grow a few plants so that the tent isn't full. Then a few weeks later you start the next set. The purpose is to set 2-4 smaller plants in flower while 2-4 more plants are getting ready, then set them in flower about 4-5 weeks after the first set go in, then start another 2-4 plants in veg so that by the time the first set of plants come out for harvest, the vegging set can go into flower. You just keep doing this rotation over and over.

Unless you have a boatload of these particular seeds, this setup will get spendy. You will be better served to learn to clone. The process is far too easy to learn, and it will help you maintain the same genetics and physical traits with each grow. We can help you successfully get cloning down


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 7, 2013)

I believe The Goddess is correct about the light threshold for the plants and the 1kis probably the best bet for a 4x4, but I like having the multiple angles of light from 2 sources as it eliminates shadowing


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## Locked (Dec 7, 2013)

I am running 5 in my 4x4 now in flower and I think a 6th would have been perfect....but it all depends on your growing style. I only use 1 gallon pots so I tend to have a little more room.    I have had 12 in my 4x4 but a few were in 1/2 gallon pots.  I would never do that many in there again. It was madness.


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## WeedHopper (Dec 7, 2013)

Hammy,,how do you keep your plants from getting rootbound in 1 gallon pots,,do ya trim them or something?


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## Locked (Dec 7, 2013)

WeedHopper said:
			
		

> Hammy,,how do you keep your plants from getting rootbound in 1 gallon pots,,do ya trim them or something?




My secret is I do nothing....  I assume they become root bound but it does not seem to affect their growth in any negative ways. When I harvest and pull the stumps from my one gallon pots they are most definitely root bound. The Smart Pots air prune so they just peel out of their pots.

I have come to the conclusion that being root bound is really not a big deal, at least for me and my style of growing.   When I eventually harvest my current plants in one gallon plastic pots I will take pics.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 7, 2013)

Hammy uses an ancient Chinese secret that he isn't allowed to tell without getting his hamster roasted


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## WeedHopper (Dec 7, 2013)

Cool,,Hammy. Cant wait to see the Pics. Thanks


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## chazmaine420 (Dec 7, 2013)

I've been running a 600 HPS in a 55 x 55 with 6 plants and getting over a pound per harvest. The 2 x 4 for veg seems fine for 6-10 plants depending on pot size. I would do low stress training starting in veg. And unless your using feminized seeds I would definitly learn to clone. Its not that hard and its cheap if you use starter plugs and a humidity dome.


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## orangesunshine (Dec 7, 2013)

you need to clone to accomplish your goal of perpetual---there are a few great diy cloner stickies here to get you where you want to be


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 7, 2013)

Man DIY bubble cloners are too easy and too reliable to NOT use them. Just ask Dr.GreenFang


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## WeedHopper (Dec 7, 2013)

I have never cloned any other way then a Bubbler. Made them all myself.


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## zem (Dec 8, 2013)

a 600w will cover 4x4 but will not yield what you want it to. I would either shrink it to 4x3 or get a 1kw.
after trying both methods, i chose cloning in small rockwool cubes over the bubbler because I get consistently similar cloning rates with both, and it's so much easier and less noise to just plug them and wait and easier to handle after they root. I find that other factors like health of mother plant and climate, to have much more effect on cloning rate than the cloning method


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## KoDak (Dec 8, 2013)

Thank u guys. but my 2x4 tent is ONLY for VEG. That 2x4 tent has the T5 light in it. I will be purchasing a 4x4 tent to FLOWER in. I see some say 1 600hps light is enough and other say 2 will get the job done. I understand wat u are saying @HUSHPUPPY. You do four plants to get them bigger. Maybe ill do 6 next time. Ill get the extra 600hps to go in the new 4x4 tent. that sound reasonable. im after great results. 

Thank you to everyone who responded and shared their opinions. i REALLY APPRECIATE IT. 

Now if i do clones (which i have no idea how to do) will that speed up the process to produce plants? is it easy to learn? if its a clone, I'll be using the same strain over and over, does that affect the THC level as they're are being reused in a sense? I guess i want a continual grow and not a perpetual grow. 

Ill start reading on cloning but direct help and comments will help as well. thank u again

btw, i only buy feminized seed from attitude seed bank. i only had one instance where my cataract kush plants turned hermie/males. i try to buy only females because im still a beginner.


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## WeedHopper (Dec 8, 2013)

Cloning is the best way to keep a strain ya like going to me. I dont like messing with a Mother Plant. I have taken Clones from Clones many many time and seen NO DIFFERENCE what so ever in taste or Potency. The only thing that would cause clones to be different is the CARE of those clones.
Cloning is easy. I made my Bubbler and never looked back,and there are lots of DIYs on Bubblers on MP.
Hell I have seen guys stick thier clones in a glass of freaken water in a window, and thier clones did fine.Me,,I would rather give them plenty TLC in a Bubbler. I have never lost a Clone to anything but my ******* mistakes. Like letting light leaks into my Rez and not getting to them in time to stop the freaken algie. Nasty slimmy crap. LOL

Check one of Hammys Cloning Methods.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=864535&postcount=1


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## KoDak (Dec 8, 2013)

WeedHopper said:
			
		

> Cloning is the best way to keep a strain ya like going to me. I dont like messing with a Mother Plant. I have taken Clones from Clones many many time and seen NO DIFFERENCE what so ever in taste or Potency. The only thing that would cause clones to be different is the CARE of those clones.
> Cloning is easy. I made my Bubbler and never looked back,and there are lots of DIYs on Bubblers on MP.
> Hell I have seen guys stick thier clones in a glass of freaken water in a window, and thier clones did fine.Me,,I would rather give them plenty TLC in a Bubbler. I have never lost a Clone to anything but my ******* mistakes. Like letting light leaks into my Rez and not getting to them in time to stop the freaken algie. Nasty slimmy crap. LOL
> 
> ...



im scared. lol.im gonna do my reading. im kinda working with someone. im the producer and he's the buyer. i cant really afford to mess up. im willing to try and learn tho. thank u


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## WeedHopper (Dec 8, 2013)

BRO,,growing is a learning experience. You are most likely gonna make a few mistakes here and there,,thats part of learning. Your buyer needs to understand you are LEARNING to grow,,not an experienced grower already. Find a cloning method ya wanna learn and just do it,,thats the only way to learn,,is just do it bro. Tell your buyer to take a chill pill.


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## KoDak (Dec 8, 2013)

he understands. he's not an ***. I was just simply stating. we both know mistakes arises. im going to to learn. by the way, im a female. but im a gay females. so i guess bro is fine :rofl: 



			
				WeedHopper said:
			
		

> BRO,,growing is a learning experience. You are most likely gonna make a few mistakes here and there,,thats part of learning. Your buyer needs to understand you are LEARNING to grow,,not an experienced grower already. Find a cloning method ya wanna learn and just do it,,thats the only way to learn,,is just do it bro. Tell your buyer to take a chill pill.


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## Locked (Dec 8, 2013)

KoDak said:
			
		

> he understands. he's not an ***. I was just simply stating. we both know mistakes arises. im going to to learn. by the way, im a female. but im a gay females. so i guess bro is fine :rofl:



Brosefina has a nice ring to it.....


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## KoDak (Dec 8, 2013)

lmao. i like Brosefina. real cutesy


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## WeedHopper (Dec 8, 2013)

Whoops. Sorry Brosefina.


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## zem (Dec 8, 2013)

don't be scared, cloning is simple, it involves using electron microscope tools to suck DNA from the plant and make a clone of it, something like Dolly sheep LOL kidding :ccc:


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 8, 2013)

:laugh: :laugh: Zem is messing with you Kodak. Cloning is very easy and we will help you through every step as you need.

It sounds like you are in good shape to move forward. I would recommend that you find a nice place to set up your cloner(not in the veg tent as you will need that space for vegging plants). You only need a space about 2'x2' with access to electricity so that you can hook up one CFL bulb, one air pump, an aquarium heater or heat mat, and a small fan to circulate air. When cloning, you want to keep a fairly controlled environment for the cuttings so that they stay warm(around 78-80f with 75%rH). You don't need or want the large amount of light that is needed for vegging so the one CFL in the soft white or 3000k spectrum will do fine.

What kind of medium and pots do you plan to use? Is your grow/flower space where your tents will be, temp controlled?


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## KoDak (Dec 8, 2013)

ok im keeping notes. wat size pots should do u recommend? i still have yet to purchase the second tent, lights and etc for the flower. can u maybe send/direct me a link where i can start reading on cloning. 



			
				Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> :laugh: :laugh: Zem is messing with you Kodak. Cloning is very easy and we will help you through every step as you need.
> 
> It sounds like you are in good shape to move forward. I would recommend that you find a nice place to set up your cloner(not in the veg tent as you will need that space for vegging plants). You only need a space about 2'x2' with access to electricity so that you can hook up one CFL bulb, one air pump, an aquarium heater or heat mat, and a small fan to circulate air. When cloning, you want to keep a fairly controlled environment for the cuttings so that they stay warm(around 78-80f with 75%rH). You don't need or want the large amount of light that is needed for vegging so the one CFL in the soft white or 3000k spectrum will do fine.
> 
> What kind of medium and pots do you plan to use? Is your grow/flower space where your tents will be, temp controlled?


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## ozzydiodude (Dec 8, 2013)

Start in the growing resources


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## Locked (Dec 8, 2013)

Since I will be one of the few to recommend them I will chime in a let you know that I don't use any pot over one gallon. Most recommend 3 gallon or better. I have found that one gallon pots work well as long as you don't mind watering more often. A couple times I have used 20 ounce cups from start to finish. Got an ounce per plant in the cups.  jmo


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 9, 2013)

I recommend that you go to either Ebay or Amazon and get a Secret Jardin 4x4 or 5x5 tent. I like the 5x5 myself as it gives a little more room but requires 2 600watt HPS for flowering. The 4x4 will do fine with a 1000watt HPS for flowering.
Here is the lights that I recommend: hxxp://www.hpsgrowlightstore.com/hps1510/best-grow-light-systems/1000-watt-grow-light-sets/ipower-grow-light-1000w-hps-dimmable-air-cool-hood-xxxl-set.html
They are a little pricey but worth every penny 

Depending on what kind of growing you want to do; organic soil, soilless with synthetic nutrients, hydroponic, will decide what kind of pots and what size you use. I do hydro with synthetic nutrients so I use net pots that are about 2liters. There are a multitude of ways to do this that will work just fine. First you need to decide if you want to grow "pounds" or just several oz each time. Are you a very "hands-on" type that wants to "tinker" a lot or do you want to plant them and just let them do their thing and only do to them what you have to do?


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## robertr (Dec 9, 2013)

You could also try the Son Agro 430w bulbs. I use 2 but my area is about 3x4. You can use them for veg and flower.


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## robertr (Dec 9, 2013)

Hushpuppy, that is not to bad of a price for what you get. I think I paid almost $300 for my digital ballast that ended up burning up on me. Everything costs more in Canada when you add shipping costs.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 10, 2013)

I don't know what Amazon's shipping policy is to Canada, but I buy a lot of stuff on Amazon.  

I keep my cloner in my veg tent.  It is small and I am not cloning all the time.  I don't think you necessarily need a separate place to clone.

I also want to say that not everyone can get the results Hammy does with his 1 gal pots.  I find that when I do not transplant to larger pots and my plants get rootbound that my plants do not get as big or grow as well, even when they are kept properly watered.


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## KoDak (Dec 10, 2013)

i went and got a few quotes on the things i was considering. the Sun hut 4x4 tent will run $205 and another 600 watt ballast, 6" reflector and bulb will all run me $300. I dont want to get the 1,000 watt hps bulb and etc only becuz i already have a 600hps which i plan to put in the new 4x4 flowering tent. (i dont want the one i have to just be sitting, unused)

im using organic soil in 3gal pots with Bontanicare nutes. I guess i want to produce ounces vs pounds because with pounds,you'll have to use way bigger pots and less plants right? i have 8 plants in 3 gal vegging in a 2x4 tent. they have only been under the t5 for one month. I kinda let the plants do their own thing but im willing to get a lil dirty.  

i will look into the links u posted. i appreciate it. is it ok to buy off amazon and get things like that shipped?




			
				Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> I recommend that you go to either Ebay or Amazon and get a Secret Jardin 4x4 or 5x5 tent. I like the 5x5 myself as it gives a little more room but requires 2 600watt HPS for flowering. The 4x4 will do fine with a 1000watt HPS for flowering.
> Here is the lights that I recommend: hxxp://www.hpsgrowlightstore.com/hps1510/best-grow-light-systems/1000-watt-grow-light-sets/ipower-grow-light-1000w-hps-dimmable-air-cool-hood-xxxl-set.html
> They are a little pricey but worth every penny
> 
> Depending on what kind of growing you want to do; organic soil, soilless with synthetic nutrients, hydroponic, will decide what kind of pots and what size you use. I do hydro with synthetic nutrients so I use net pots that are about 2liters. There are a multitude of ways to do this that will work just fine. First you need to decide if you want to grow "pounds" or just several oz each time. Are you a very "hands-on" type that wants to "tinker" a lot or do you want to plant them and just let them do their thing and only do to them what you have to do?


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## robertr (Dec 10, 2013)

Amazon USA has a ton of stuff to browse through but when you find something you want they won't ship to Canada. The Canadian Amazon has hardly anything and the shipping also goes up.


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## robertr (Dec 10, 2013)

Kodak, I can usually get 2.5 to3oz of dry weed from 2.5 gallons of soil for a plant under 3 feet.. I think this is good. I read somewhere 1oz dry pot per gallon of soil. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 10, 2013)

robertr said:
			
		

> Kodak, I can usually get 2.5 to3oz of dry weed from 2.5 gallons of soil for a plant under 3 feet.. I think this is good. I read somewhere 1oz dry pot per gallon of soil. Somebody correct me if I am wrong.



Yes that is good.  However, I have never heard of yield being determined by pot size--ie 1 oz for 1 gal, 3 ozs for 3 gal pots.  Yield is pretty much determined by your space, your growing conditions, and your light.  More smaller plants will yield about the same as fewer larger plants.


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## KoDak (Dec 10, 2013)

i want to show u guys my plants but im so paranoid with sending the pix from my from to my email to upload. i misplaced my usb cord to simply transfer the pix. but hopefully i can use someone else's and upload shortly. also, I have a concern. like i said, my plants are in the 2x4 vegging. im using a basement and its fairy cold. but inside the tent it's  reading btw 65-73 degrees. is that fine? but i also notice that im water less becuz its taking the soil longer to dry. should i lower the t5 light over more to speed up the drying of the soil? i dont want to overwater it but i want to be able to feed it so it can start to bloom. its week 4 this wk. i cant feed yet becuz the soil is still moist. i feel like the plants should be slightly bigger.



			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Yes that is good.  However, I have never heard of yield being determined by pot size--ie 1 oz for 1 gal, 3 ozs for 3 gal pots.  Yield is pretty much determined by your space, your growing conditions, and your light.  More smaller plants will yield about the same as fewer larger plants.


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## zem (Dec 10, 2013)

KoDak said:
			
		

> i want to show u guys my plants but im so paranoid with sending the pix from my from to my email to upload. i misplaced my usb cord to simply transfer the pix. but hopefully i can use someone else's and upload shortly. also, I have a concern. like i said, my plants are in the 2x4 vegging. im using a basement and its fairy cold. but inside the tent it's  reading btw 65-73 degrees. is that fine? but i also notice that im water less becuz its taking the soil longer to dry. should i lower the t5 light over more to speed up the drying of the soil? i dont want to overwater it but i want to be able to feed it so it can start to bloom. its week 4 this wk. i cant feed yet becuz the soil is still moist. i feel like the plants should be slightly bigger.


you don't "have" to show pics, it's your call.
temps are good at these levels. lowering the t5 will not have the effect you want, however it must be as low as possible to the plant without burning it.
Maybe your soil is not light and airy enough and holds a lot of moisture, the only thing that would make evaporation quicker is more ventilation, more light, a dehumidifier or a heater


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 10, 2013)

You shouldn't have any trouble having things shipped to your place. I have had plenty of things shipped to my door without issue. Most of the time it is shipped in discreet packaging so it isn't obvious what it is. I prefer to order stuff from online than to go to a grow store as you can be profiled and tracked at the store if they suspect MJ growers are coming in. They can't track all of the shipments that go out from online stores if they wanted to so it is safer in my opinion.

 I think you will do fine with the 2 600whps lights in the flower tent. And it will generate more heat for your space as well (which can be a whole other issue that we will need to discuss). Ventilation will be a new animal that must be done correctly for good results at harvest time. 

You can load pics here without issue. Just make sure you don't have anything showing in them that can identify you or your place. You will definitely need to load them to the computer first so that you can resize them if necessary. You are safer to load pics here than anywhere else.

I think 3gal pots are a good size for doing organic soil growing. The good thing about it is that you don't necessarily have to worry too much about pH adjustment unless your water is waay off. I would recommend that you get some extra beneficial microbes and some "nute tea" to go along with what you are doing. I order most of my stuff from plant lighting hydroponics.com and from discount hydroponics.com. Ebay and Amazon are good for the big stuff but for most of my nutes and maintenance stuff, I go to one of the 2 sites above.

If you are having issues with the soil not drying out, it may be that the soil is too dense and not aerated enough. Most of us here use a lot of pearlite to mix into our soil or soilless medium as it keeps the mediums from compacting and holding water. It is very important for the soil to "breathe" as the roots need oxygen to keep them from drowning. Mixing peat and pearlite into a good dense soil will help it to drain and pull more air into it. If your soil is dense and doesn't have this material that could be what is happening. It is also very important for your pots to have very good drainage to allow extra water to pass through the soil so that the roots don't drown.

Here is a link to something that I believe will serve you in the future: hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/espoma-garden-tone-organic-vegetable-food-4-lb-p-4236.html
I wouldn't do an organic soil grow without this stuff as it is a organic fertilizer but it also is loaded with beneficial microbes that will move into your soil and help make the nutrients more available to the plants.


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## WeedHopper (Dec 10, 2013)

Good post Hush.


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## KoDak (Dec 11, 2013)

I had a ventilation system in mind. I usually have the inline fan at the top of the tent with ducting connected at the top of the fan going down inside the tent thru the sleeve of the tent. That ducting is connected to the reflector. one the other side of the reflector, another piece of ducting is connected and going out of the tent, connect to the filter to conceal the smell. I have a speed controller connected to the inline fan. i think i need a better venting system setup.

ill check the link. thnx alot 



			
				Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> You shouldn't have any trouble having things shipped to your place. I have had plenty of things shipped to my door without issue. Most of the time it is shipped in discreet packaging so it isn't obvious what it is. I prefer to order stuff from online than to go to a grow store as you can be profiled and tracked at the store if they suspect MJ growers are coming in. They can't track all of the shipments that go out from online stores if they wanted to so it is safer in my opinion.
> 
> I think you will do fine with the 2 600whps lights in the flower tent. And it will generate more heat for your space as well (which can be a whole other issue that we will need to discuss). Ventilation will be a new animal that must be done correctly for good results at harvest time.
> 
> ...


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 11, 2013)

It sounds like you have the idea for the ventilation but what you need to do is pull the air out of the tent and filter it as it leaves, while at the same time pulling in fresh air that comes from either outside of the building or from a location where there is plenty of co2. At the same time you want to remove the heat that builds up from the HPS lighting. There are a couple ways of doing this. 

For a simple set up of a single 4x4/5x5 tent, you can use enclosed/vented fixtures that are connected to a carbon filter that is inside the tent with the flowering plants, and on the other side they are connected to the exhaust fan which I recommend to be placed outside the tent and closer to where you want the air to be exhausted so that the air is pulled not pushed as vacuum works better than push. 

Now being in a living space of a house gives the unique opportunity to circulate the air within the space so that it stays within a comfortable temp range. Also, if there are people and/or pets present they can create co2 levels that are good for the plants. However, if the presence of people and pets aren't enough to create the level of co2 necessary then you will have to pull in fresh air from outside which will require exhausting the air to the outside as well. 

going with outside air isn't a problem except for the controlling the atmosphere (temps and humidity). I have found it easiest to control these factors by pulling the fresh air into the larger space of the room where the grow is located, then either heat or cool this air before it reaches the tent. You will have to monitor this air within the room for temp and humidity. You want to maintain 68-73f with 50-65% humidity for the best results within the tent. 

I suggest that you get your tent and get everything set up and tested before needing to move any plants to flower as you may find that there are certain alterations that have to be done in order to keep it where it needs to be to have successful, high quality harvests. If you have any questions just ask


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## zem (Dec 12, 2013)

I always try to make as few ducts as i can, and if i had to do them, i do them much bigger than the fan size. i find ducts and obstacles like 90 degree curves to diminish ventilation by so much. all the rooms that i build now, i just place the fan on the wall of the room and make holes and gaps for passive intake, the entire room becomes a duct if you would...


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 12, 2013)

Do you not use enclosed lights so that you pull the heat away from them? Some people use open lights and then use ac and fans to keep the heat from building up. It really depends greatly on the room and the configuration of your setup.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 12, 2013)

I have a 6" vortex in my crawl space below the flowering room with 2 nice big bends in the ducting.  I think that the amount the air flow is diminished is minimal.  I can tell you that I still need the speed controller to cut down the speed of the fan as the pull is so great.  While you want to keep bends to a minimum and eliminate any sags, air flow is not diminished much by having a few bends.


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## ozzydiodude (Dec 12, 2013)

If I remember right it 1% air flow speed loss per 10 ft of pipe or a 90* turn 

2-90* +10 ft of pipe = 3% air flow loss

so a 400 cfm fan will lose 12 cfm equaling 388cfm


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## zem (Dec 13, 2013)

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> If I remember right it 1% air flow speed loss per 10 ft of pipe or a 90* turn
> 
> 2-90* +10 ft of pipe = 3% air flow loss
> 
> so a 400 cfm fan will lose 12 cfm equaling 388cfm


from my experience with fans, these calculations must be missing something.  I tried to make passive intake with 2x90* curves, made the holes 2x+ the fan size and I could even hear the fan noise going down as I shut my door then go back up as I open it. I had to make a big side hole with no ducts to help and when I put my hand in front of it I can feel strong airflow


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## ozzydiodude (Dec 13, 2013)

The reason your"fan noise going down" (I take this as the fan speed was slowing down) was that the fresh air intake was not big enough to allow the right about of air into the room. You have to size the intake to the proper size as well as the fans. The higher the cfm the bigger the fresh air intake has to be.


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## KoDak (Dec 14, 2013)

Guys. I'm growing in 3gallon pots (i forgot the name.of.the pots, but they are like cloth i guess u can say, they drain out on their own)., My  plants are beautiful green but I kept feeling like they should be bigger..I lifted up the pots and I'm noticing that roots are growing from the bottom. Wat can I do? I know this will pose a problem.  I'm in a 2x4 tent with 8plants. Bigger pots might not work. Should I just repot the plants back into the 3gallon and try to direct the root else where?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 15, 2013)

Roots do that with those kind of pots (which are called smart pots).  It is not a bad thing.

However, 8 plants in a 2 x 4 space could be a bad thing.....


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 15, 2013)

I wouldn't change them from the pots they are in, 3gal is plenty as long as you feed them good. Don't worry about the roots coming out, they do that as it is dark and wet there so the roots think they are still under soil. Once they reach light and air they will self prune. The same thing occurs in the sides of the smart pots and is known as "air pruning". It works quite well for many people who use them to prevent as much root binding.

For some plants at 4-5 weeks veg, they won't be real big, especially if you are using lots of T5 light because that type of lighting encourages close intermodal spacing which keeps the plants short. Once they go to flower, they will stretch out considerably. How many nodes do they have at this point? Not sure if you know these terms; nodes are the points where each leaf/branch grows out from the main stem, internodes are the empty spaces along the stem between the leaves/branches. At 5weeks you should typically have 8-16 nodes depending on several variables.


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## KoDak (Dec 15, 2013)

I made a mistake and repotted 4 of the plants into the same kind of pots, 3gal. Do u think this can pose a problem?


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 15, 2013)

Well if you repotted them its no big deal but if the roots were coming through the bottoms and you broke them and disturbed the others then you will probably have stunned them a bit. They may stall for 4-10 days while they heal the roots. If you didn't damage the roots much, it may not take that long for them to begin growing again.

I don't know if this is the case with them or not but sometimes plants will veg slowly while they are growing roots. Then once the roots are well established the vegging growth will begin in earnest. But if you repot them into bigger pots, they will sometimes stall a bit while the roots reestablish themselves, then the veg growth begins in earnest again.

Make sure they are getting enough light, temps are staying around 75-80f, water them when they feel dry and I would give a light to medium feeding every other watering for soil. I personally like the idea of feeding every time they are watered but use less food so that they don't get overnute burn. But everyone does their own way.

You didn't answer how tall they are right now and how big are they in diameter roughly?


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## KoDak (Dec 20, 2013)

finally got a few pix. they're still doing good. some plants are slightly taller than other.


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## zem (Dec 21, 2013)

very nice Kodak, plant look bushy green and healthy :aok:


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## KoDak (Dec 21, 2013)

Thank u.. the more I'm growing the better I'm getting. The only issue I'm.having is trying to pH nutes perfectly. Im using botanicare. Im pH'ing around 6.0-.6.3


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## KoDak (Dec 21, 2013)

Im.reading the botanicare isn't good. Is it too late to switch to GH?  I heard it good. Im only in my second month of veg. What kind of GH should I get if im able to switch


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## robertr (Dec 21, 2013)

I use GH Flora Nova series fertilizer. It is 2 part, easy to use, I get good results but I grow in dirt.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 21, 2013)

I didn't like Botanicare much myself.  You can certainly switch to GH nutes.  Plant are looking good, but you can probably still get that T5 a little closer.  You are getting a little stretch.


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## KoDak (Dec 21, 2013)

I grow in soil also. Can complications occur if i switch now?


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## robertr (Dec 21, 2013)

You should be OK. If it was me, I would flush them,wait till next watering and feed them then. My schedule is as the directions say, feed till you get runoff wait till next watering and feed with plain ph'ed water. Do that till flowering time. Then I give them a good flush before flowering. For the first flowering feed I give them half veg and half bloom nutes. From there I feed the same as veg cycle, of course follow what your plants tell you they want. I flush them really good about a week to 2 weeks before harvest so my TDS reading on the run off is the same as plain water. That is my way of doing it, I hope it helps


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## KoDak (Dec 23, 2013)

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> It sounds like you have the idea for the ventilation but what you need to do is pull the air out of the tent and filter it as it leaves, while at the same time pulling in fresh air that comes from either outside of the building or from a location where there is plenty of co2. At the same time you want to remove the heat that builds up from the HPS lighting. There are a couple ways of doing this.
> 
> For a simple set up of a single 4x4/5x5 tent, you can use enclosed/vented fixtures that are connected to a carbon filter that is inside the tent with the flowering plants, and on the other side they are connected to the exhaust fan which I recommend to be placed outside the tent and closer to where you want the air to be exhausted so that the air is pulled not pushed as vacuum works better than push.
> 
> ...




Thank u Hushpuppy 

I completely understand what you're saying. I'm just trying to visualize the set up you're explaining. Is there maybe a link you could refer me to so that I can see it? I kind of have an idea of what you're saying.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 23, 2013)

What you can do is look up "flex hose" or "hose routing" or "ventilation" here and go through some of the journal entries that talk about it. Here is a good picture of GreenFang's grow space. He has tents inside of a room in a building so that he is able to control the air that comes into the room before it is pulled into the tents where the plants are: http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=210918&d=1386213190
If you look carefully at the first tent on the right. At the top you can see that he has the carbon filter hung from the ceiling where the warmest air goes. Then the flex hose connects the filter to the lights, and from the lights, the hose goes to the exhaust fan which pushes the heated air out of the building. At the bottom of the tents there are openings that allow you to make "passive airways" for the air to be pulled into the tents. Just like a vacuum cleaner sucks the air in one end, through a filter, and out through another spot, the exhaust fan sucks the warm air that is in the tops of the tents out through the filters so that the air is scrubbed. Then it sucks that same air through the lights so that the heat is removed from them, and pushes it out of the room. This creates a vacuum (or negative pressure) within the tents which causes the cooler, fresh air in the room to be pulled into the tents, which in turn pulls in fresh cold air from outside the building, and into the room so that it can be warmed to a tolerable level before it gets pulled into the tents.
Here are a couple more good pics that show what I am talking about: http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=208853&d=1379554347
http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=208851&d=1379554319
In these 2 pics you can see the carbon filter connected to the lights and going out of the tent in the second pic to the green exhaust fan that pushes it out through the ceiling.

Now there is another option for you as I was saying. I can't find any pictures to show what I am talking about but take the same ventilation setup and rather than drive the air out of the house and pull fresh air back into the house from outside, you drive the heated air out into the house at another location that is farthest from the space where the plants are. This allows you to circulate the air from the tents through the house which gives the house warm oxygenated air for people and pets to breathe, while pulling the heavier, co2 laden air that is cooler back down into the space where the tent is. The exact setup for this will depend on the house and how warm it makes the house, and if there are enough oxygen breathers to give sufficient co2 back to the plants.


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## DrFever (Dec 23, 2013)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> I am running 5 in my 4x4 now in flower and I think a 6th would have been perfect....but it all depends on your growing style. I only use 1 gallon pots so I tend to have a little more room.    I have had 12 in my 4x4 but a few were in 1/2 gallon pots.  I would never do that many in there again. It was madness.



 Have you  not tried to up your  pot size???
 being  you run 5  in a 4x4 area  I am also  curious  what kind of yields  you get   from  your style  ???  IMO if you went to 4 gallon pots per  i bet your yields would  drastically  increase.

I Read some posts above  and thought i would  chime in
 Sometimes photosynthesis is limited by the concentration of carbon dioxide in the Air,Which i am surprised know one  mentioned.
 Even if there is plenty of light, a plant cannot photosynthesis,
 if there is insufficient carbon dioxide.
 Also Without enough light, a plant cannot photosynthesis very quickly,,,
    even if there is plenty of water and carbon dioxide.
 Increasing the light intensity will boost the speed of photosynthesis.  but c02  is needed  they work hand in hand 
 If it gets too cold, the rate of photosynthesis will decrease. Plants cannot photosynthesis same goes  if it gets too hot.

Also  to the op  here is a idea  for you   which i  used to do  in green house grows  i used some kerosene/ paraffin lamps  The use of paraffin lamps inside a greenhouse or grow room will  increases the rate of photosynthesis because the burning paraffin produces carbon dioxide, and heat too.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 24, 2013)

DrFever said:
			
		

> I Read some posts above  and thought i would  chime in
> Sometimes photosynthesis is limited by the concentration of carbon dioxide in the Air,Which i am surprised know one  mentioned.
> Even if there is plenty of light, a plant cannot photosynthesis,
> if there is insufficient carbon dioxide.
> ...



I think I touched on this in another thread.  For example, I have found that I get no better growth with 1200W of light in my space than I do with 1000W.  So, basically, this is the amount of light my plant can utilize without CO2 enhancement.

Dr.  doesn't the light from the lanterns affect flowering?


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## DrFever (Dec 24, 2013)

Actually  THG  i always  started them  up  as my lights went on    they  ran fully fueled up  5 - 6 hrs  but in theory one  should probably  fire  them up  3 - 4 hrs into  lights on, bringing up the heat  they also  give you heat  which is a bonus.
 I Have  played with temps  in all stages of  growth  for a long time,and found  83 - 88  was  the best temps  in my situation  where i saw  Vigorous Growth   then where most sites or growers will mention  76 - 78 max  to me that's min temps   for decent growth.  as  per your question  mentioning will it effect  flowering actually  not at all  when  breakin it down   the lamp it self  is  only emmiting approx  1 - 10 lumen  per Meter  which we both  know is nothing


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 27, 2013)

You say you get better yields with higher temps, is that also using higher ppm of CO2?


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## KoDak (Jan 10, 2014)

my babies have been in flower for two days. the sleeves on my tent didnt get opened today. when i got to my tent, the temps read 91 degrees and there was so much moisture in there. the leave on the plants were wet. what should i do in this case. should i feed the plants water, cal mag or what? they did drop a bit but turned yellow also.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 11, 2014)

Kodak--tell us about your ventilation set-up.  IMO, that is too high and too high a humidity brings all kinds of problems.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 11, 2014)

definitely don't water them or do anything different other than getting the ventilation corrected. You can open the tent while the lites are on but not while off unless you have it in a very dark room.


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## KoDak (Jan 16, 2014)

The tops of some of the plants dropped so bad I dont think it can be restored. Idk if I should let the dead tips stay there or cut it. Im still working on ventilation. I just have the fan sitting on the floor right now with the ducting, connected to the fan pulling the air out I believe. Im tryna to find a better setup


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## KoDak (Jan 20, 2014)

I have this exact inline fan. If im to pull air from out the tent, which way should the fan be turned connecting to the ducting?

i have the side that is shown in the picture facing the room while the side with the longer neck is connected to the ducting, which is connected to the lighting and the other side of the light is completely open. does that sound like a good system? 

hxxp://www.amazon.com/Active-Air-Inline-Fan-12/dp/B003IM058Y/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1390234696&sr=8-10&keywords=12%27+inline+fan

also, have anyone heard of The Guano Company: Budswel (0.01- 0.10 -0.01)

when would u use this in the flowering stage?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 20, 2014)

I don't quite understand your description of your ventilation setup.  Do you have an air coolable hood?  

You want to set things up so that the fan is sucking the air from the light and exhausting it somewhere outside the space.  You will need some passive intakes in your space.  My fan is actually located under my house in the crawl space.

This is how mine is set up--the arrows show the direction of air flow:

light>duct>fan>ducting to outside

I'm not a big fan of "bud enhancers".  In my many years f growing I have tried about a half dozen recommended by others.  I have never seen any real difference in bud development.  And I'm not sure if something that is 0.01-0.10-0.01 is going to do much of anything.


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## KoDak (Jan 20, 2014)

thanks. i have it like that. i was just trying to make sure if im pulling it out correctly. last time i did it, seemed like the tent was being sucked in this time it seems like its expanding.  thank u


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 20, 2014)

You want that tent being sucked in a little, that means that you have good negative pressure within the tent. That guarentees that the air is all going through the filter to be cleaned. If the tent sides are being bushed out, that means the pressure is positive and the air is pushing out of other places rather than being forced through the filter where it can be scrubbed of odors. 

The exhaust fan should be set up(in my opinion and preference) closer to where the exhaust outlet is and then the intake side of the fan is connected via the flex hose to the vented lights. Then the other side of the lights is connected, either directly to or via flex hose, to the filter which is held within the tent (typically at the top of the tent so that it gets the oxygenated and heated air) so that the air from within the tent is pulled through the filter then through the light, then it is pulled down the length of the hose through the fan and out. 

The tent will have "passive" openings at the bottom to allowing fresh, cooler, co2 filled air to come in beneath the plants where the vacuum effect of the exhaust fan can pull the co2 up through the foliage where the leaves can grab it. If this is not happening, you may have your fan connected in reverse


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 20, 2014)

I usually just plug my fans in and check for which way the air flow is before connecting them, just to be sure as some can look a bit confusing. Generally though, the more elongated side of the fan is the output side while the more squared-off side is the inlet side


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## KoDak (Jan 20, 2014)

Hush thanks a lot.that makes total sense. It was a lil confusing. I appreciate you all.


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## KoDak (Jan 24, 2014)

Im switching over to the 4x4 tent today. Ill have two 600 hps in there. How should set up ventilation system with only one inline fan. Right now im in  2x4 tent with one 600 hps. I have it as follows: light&#12299;ducting&#12299;inline fan.do I need ducting at the  other end of the inline where its exhausting out?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 26, 2014)

I had 2 600w lights in my tents (both 4x4 and 5x5). I placed my fans close to where the outlet of my exhaust air is, then ran flex hose into the tent through one of the hose inlets and connected to the first light fixture. Then connected hose from the opposite side of the first fixture around in the shape of a 'U' to the second fixture. Then on the other side of the second fixture, I connected hose from fixture to the carbon filter, which I hung in the top corner of the tent, connected to one of the top bars with(big) heavy duty plastic ty-wraps(zip-ties). It worked flawlessly as I didn't have to move the lights much. I would lower them about 15" when I first set the vegging plants into tent for flowering. I keep about 12-16" between the lights and the tops of the canopy. You will need a couple of small clip on fans to keep the air moving in the space. I put one below the canopy to move the air around under the plants and then one or more above the canopy to stir the air so there are no hotspots.


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## KoDak (Jan 26, 2014)

HUSH, i promise you are the biggest help. i need you. lol. i set it up. i haven't yet connected the carbon filter because the smell isn't strong. thanks again


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 26, 2014)

:aok: holler if ya need help


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## KoDak (Feb 23, 2014)

is it true that near the end of flower, leaves will turn yellow?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 24, 2014)

Not all the time, but often during the latter part of flowering this happens because the leaves have depleted all the N.


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## KoDak (Mar 31, 2014)

so i finished March 8th. since then they have been dried and continues to be cured. 
There are some not picture that I also did. I did two blue dreams. came out different from the first time i grew it. 

1.lost og
2. cheese
3.blue dream
4.green crack

Not pictured is Train wrek, Tahoe, Diamond dynasty i believe and something else i have labeled as unknown because i cant recall or fine label

special thanks to HushPuppy. Great help along the way 

View attachment Photo on 2014-03-31 at 21.37 #2.jpg


View attachment Photo on 2014-03-31 at 21.46.jpg


View attachment Photo on 2014-03-31 at 21.51.jpg


View attachment Photo on 2014-03-31 at 21.55.jpg


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## DrFever (Mar 31, 2014)

well done


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## Hushpuppy (Apr 1, 2014)

Congratulations on some nice bud my friend  I see some nice grows and awesome smoke in your future. Now the next step is going to be saving all the trim and drying it to make some sweet hash  I look forward to working with you.


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