# Feds Target Calif Pot Dispensaries



## Roddy

SAN FRANCISCO  Federal prosecutors have launched a crackdown on pot dispensaries in California, warning the stores that they must shut down in 45 days or face criminal charges and confiscation of their property even if they are operating legally under the state's 15-year-old medical marijuana law.

In an escalation of the ongoing conflict between the U.S. government and the nation's burgeoning medical marijuana industry, at least 16 pot shops or their landlords received letters this week stating they are violating federal drug laws, even though medical marijuana is legal in California. The state's four U.S. attorneys are scheduled to announce a broader coordinated crackdown at a Friday news conference.

Their offices refused to confirm the closure orders. The Associated Press obtained copies of the letters that a prosecutor sent to at least 12 San Diego dispensaries. They state that federal law "takes precedence over state law and applies regardless of the particular uses for which a dispensary is selling and distributing marijuana."

"Under United States law, a dispensary's operations involving sales and distribution of marijuana are illegal and subject to criminal prosecution and civil enforcement actions," letters signed by U.S. Attorney Laura Duffy in San Diego read. "Real and personal property involved in such operations are subject to seizure by and forfeiture to the United States ... regardless of the purported purpose of the dispensary."

The move comes a little more than two months after the Obama administration toughened its stand on medical marijuana following a two-year period during which federal officials had indicated they would not move aggressively against dispensaries in compliance with laws in the 16 states where pot is legal for people with doctors' recommendations.

The Department of Justice issued a policy memo to federal prosecutors in late June stating that marijuana dispensaries and licensed growers in states with medical marijuana laws could face prosecution for violating federal drug and money-laundering laws. The effort to shutter California dispensaries appears to be the most far-reaching effort so far to put that guidance into action.

"This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone. The administration is simply making good on multiple threats issued since President Obama took office," Kevin Sabet, a former adviser to the president's drug czar who is a fellow at the University of Pennsylvania's Center for Substance Abuse Solutions. "The challenge is to balance the scarcity of law enforcement resources and the sanctity of this country's medication approval process. It seems like the administration is simply making good on multiple statements made previously to appropriately strike that balance."

Greg Anton, a lawyer who represents a Marin Alliance for Medical Marijuana, said the 14-year-old dispensary's landlord received an "extremely threatening" letter Wednesday invoking a federal law that imposes additional penalties for selling drugs within 1,000 feet of schools, parks and playgrounds.

The landlord was ordered to evict the pot club or risk imprisonment, plus forfeiture of the property and all the rent he has collected while the dispensary has been in business, Anton said.

The Marin Alliance's founder "has been paying state and federal taxes for 14 years, and they have cashed all the checks," he said. "All I hear from Obama is whining about his budget, but he has money to do this which will actually reduce revenues."

Kris Hermes, a spokesman for the medical marijuana advocacy group Americans for Safe Access, said the warnings are part of what appears to be an attempt by the Obama administration to curb medical marijuana on multiple fronts and through multiple agencies. A series of dispensary raids in Montana, for example, involved agents from not only the FBI and U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, but the Internal Revenue Service and Environmental Protection Agency.

Going after property owners is not a new tactic, though, Hermes said. Five years ago, the Department of Justice under President George Bush made similar threats to about 300 Los Angeles-area landlords who were renting space to medical marijuana outlets, some of whom were eventually evicted or closed their doors voluntarily, he said.

"It did have an impact. However, the federal government never acted on its threats, never prosecuted anybody, never even went to court to begin prosecutions," Hermes said. "By and large they were empty threats, but they relied on them and the cost of postage to shut down as many facilities as they could without having to engage in criminal enforcement activity."

Copyright 2011 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.


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## Roddy

ooops on the trademark thingy lol


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## Killertea08

Yup Roddy just read that on msnbc

hXXp://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/44806723/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/#.To6A2XKjSuI

I think this is the most stupid thing are government can do!  Lets just lower are overall revenue which marijuana is a big chunk, and waste more money on police enforcement as always.  I think its big pharma that is funding something here, because after all, we smoke more and buy less Rx from them which they know and they can't stand it.  I recommend this book for anyone that wants to look at a different side of the coin when it comes to prescription medications.  The title is "OVER-THE-COUNTER" Natural Cures by and  Mr Shane Ellison M.S.  He was a chemist for a big pharmaceutical company and states the side effects from many meds later on down the road will lead us to the hospital such as "Statins" He is also on you tube called the "people's chemist".


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## NorCalHal

We are ready, ready to flood the Federal court system with case after case.

No one is scared, believe me. We have faced this time and again.

What has taken place the last 2 years will NEVER go away or even get slowed down, it's fargin' incredible. They are too late, at least in this state.

Darn straight it's Big Pharma pushing this.


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## Roddy

SAN FRANCISCO &#8212; Federal prosecutors in California are cracking down on some of the state's medical marijuana dispensaries, signaling an escalation of the ongoing conflict between the U.S. government and the nation's burgeoning medical marijuana industry.

The four U.S. attorneys in California, the first state to pass a law legalizing marijuana use for patients with doctors' recommendations, have scheduled a joint news conference Friday where they plan to "outline actions targeting the sale, distribution and cultivation of marijuana."

Their offices refused to provide details in advance what moves the officials are taking or how many of the state's hundreds of storefront pot shops would be affected. But at least 16 pot shops or their landlords received letters this week warning face they would face criminal charges and confiscation of their property if the dispensaries do not shut down in 45 days.

The Associated Press obtained copies of the letters that a prosecutor sent to at least 12 San Diego dispensaries. They state that federal law "takes precedence over state law and applies regardless of the particular uses for which a dispensary is selling and distributing marijuana."

"Under United States law, a dispensary's operations involving sales and distribution of marijuana are illegal and subject to criminal prosecution and civil enforcement actions," according to the letters signed by U.S. Attorney Laura Duffy in San Diego. "Real and personal property involved in such operations are subject to seizure by and forfeiture to the United States ... regardless of the purported purpose of the dispensary."

The move comes a little more than two months after the Obama administration toughened its stand on medical marijuana. For two years before that, federal officials had indicated they would not move aggressively against dispensaries in compliance with laws in the 16 states where pot is legal for people with doctors' recommendations.

The Department of Justice issued a policy memo to federal prosecutors in late June stating that marijuana dispensaries and licensed growers in states with medical marijuana laws could face prosecution for violating federal drug and money-laundering laws. The effort to shutter California dispensaries appeared to be the most far-reaching effort so far to put that guidance into action.

Greg Anton, a lawyer who represents dispensary Marin Alliance for Medical Marijuana, said its landlord received an "extremely threatening" letter Wednesday invoking a federal law that imposes additional penalties for selling drugs within 1,000 feet of schools, parks and playgrounds.

The landlord was ordered to evict the 14-year-old pot club or risk imprisonment, plus forfeiture of the property and all the rent he has collected while the dispensary has been in business, Anton said.

Kris Hermes, a spokesman for the medical marijuana advocacy group Americans for Safe Access, said the warnings are part of what appears to be an attempt by the Obama administration to curb medical marijuana on multiple fronts and through multiple agencies. A series of dispensary raids in Montana, for example, involved agents from not only the FBI and U.S. Drug Enforcement Agency, but the Internal Revenue Service and Environmental Protection Agency.

Going after property owners is not a new tactic though, Hermes said. Five years ago, the Department of Justice under President George W. Bush made similar threats to about 300 Los Angeles-area landlords who were renting space to medical marijuana outlets, some of whom were eventually evicted or closed their doors voluntarily, he said.

"It did have an impact. However, the federal government never acted on its threats, never prosecuted anybody, never even went to court to begin prosecutions," Hermes said. "By and large, they were empty threats, but they relied on them and the cost of postage to shut down as many facilities as they could without having to engage in criminal enforcement activity."

The San Diego medical marijuana outlets put on notice were the same dozen that city officials sued last month for operating illegally, after activists there threatened to force an election on a zoning plan adopted to regulate the city's fast-growing medical marijuana industry, City Attorney Jan Goldsmith said. A judge on Wednesday ordered nine of the targeted shops to close, while the other three shut down voluntarily, Goldsmith said.

Duffy, the U.S. attorney for far Southern California, planned to issue warning letters to property owners and all of the 180 or so dispensaries that have proliferated in San Diego in the absence of compromise regulations, according to Goldsmith.

"The real power is with the federal government," he said. "They have the asset forfeiture, and that means either the federal government will own a lot of property or these landlords will evict a lot of dispensaries."


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## Hick

> Published: March 18, 2009
> 
> WASHINGTON &#8212; Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. on Wednesday outlined a shift in the enforcement of federal drug laws, saying the administration would effectively end the Bush administration&#8217;s frequent raids on distributors of medical marijuana....Mr. Holder said the new approach was consistent with statements made by President Obama in the campaign and was based on an assessment of how to allocate scarce enforcement resources. He said dispensaries operating in accord with California law would not be a priority for the administration.



During a town hall meeting in Laconia, New Hampshire, on June 2, 2007, Sen. Obama was asked if he would continue the federal raids on medical marijuana patients and their caregivers. Sen. Obama responded: "I don't think that should be a top priority of us, raiding people who are using ... medical marijuana. With all the things we've got to worry about, and our Justice Department should be doing, that probably shouldn't be a high priority."

On July 21, 2007 at a town hall meeting in Manchester, New Hampshire, a GSMM staffer asked Sen. Obama if he would end the raids. Sen. Obama replied: "The Justice Department going after sick individuals using this as a palliative instead of going after serious criminals makes no sense."

Less then a month later, on August 13, while at a town hall meeting in Nashua, New Hampshire, he was asked by GSMM staffers if he agreed with the 81% of New Hampshire Democrats who believe that the federal government should end the raids on medical marijuana patients and caregivers. Sen. Obama responded: "You know, it's really not a good use of Justice Department resources."

On August 21, during a campaign event in Nashua, New Hampshire, Sen. Obama was asked by GSMM volunteer and seriously ill Nashua resident Scott Turner if he would end the federal raids on medical marijuana patients like him. Sen. Obama replied: "I would not have the Justice Department prosecuting and raiding medical marijuana users. It's not a good use of our resources."



> October 19,2009
> 
> MEMORANDUM FOR SELECTED UNITED STATES ATTORNEYS
> 
> FROM: David W. Ogden, Deputy Attorney General
> 
> SUBJECT: Investigations and Prosecutions in States Authorizing the Medical Use of Marijuana
> 
> This memorandum provides clarification and guidance to federal prosecutors in States that have enacted laws authorizing the medical use of marijuana. These laws vary in their substantive provisions and in the extent of state regulatory oversight, both among the enacting States and among local jurisdictions within those States. Rather than developing different guidelines for every possible variant of state and local law, this memorandum provides uniform guidance to focus federal investigations and prosecutions in these States on core federal enforcement priorities.
> 
> The Department of Justice is committed to the enforcement of the Controlled Substances Act in all States. Congress has determined that marijuana is a dangerous drug, and the illegal distribution and sale of marijuana is a serious crime and provides a significant source of revenue to large-scale criminal enterprises, gangs, and cartels. One timely example underscores the importance of our efforts to prosecute significant marijuana traffickers: marijuana distribution in the United States remains the single largest source of revenue for the Mexican cartels.
> 
> The Department is also committed to making efficient and rational use of its limited investigative and prosecutorial resources. In general, United States Attorneys are vested with &#8220;plenary authority with regard to federal criminal matters&#8221; within their districts. USAM 9-2.001. In exercising this authority, United States Attorneys are &#8220;invested by statute and delegation from the Attorney General with the broadest discretion in the exercise of such authority.&#8221; Id. This authority should, of course, be exercised consistent with Department priorities and guidance.
> 
> The prosecution of significant traffickers of illegal drugs, including marijuana, and the disruption of illegal drug manufacturing and trafficking networks continues to be a core priority in the Department&#8217;s efforts against narcotics and dangerous drugs, and the Department&#8217;s investigative and prosecutorial resources should be directed towards these objectives. As a general matter, pursuit of these priorities should not focus federal resources in your States on individuals whose actions are in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state laws providing for the medical use of marijuana. For example, prosecution of individuals with cancer or other serious illnesses who use marijuana as part of a recommended treatment regimen consistent with applicable state law, or those caregivers in clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law who provide such individuals with marijuana, is unlikely to be an efficient use of limited federal resources. On the other hand, prosecution of commercial enterprises that unlawfully market and sell marijuana for profit continues to be an enforcement priority of the Department. To be sure, claims of compliance with state or local law may mask operations inconsistent with the terms, conditions, or purposes of those laws, and federal law enforcement should not be deterred by such assertions when otherwise pursuing the Department&#8217;s core enforcement priorities.
> 
> Typically, when any of the following characteristics is present, the conduct will not be in clear and unambiguous compliance with applicable state law and may indicate illegal drug trafficking activity of potential federal interest:
> 
> *
> unlawful possession or unlawful use of firearms;
> *
> violence;
> *
> sales to minors;
> *
> financial and marketing activities inconsistent with the terms, conditions, or purposes of state law, including evidence of money laundering activity and/or financial gains or excessive amounts of cash inconsistent with purported compliance with state or local law;
> *
> amounts of marijuana inconsistent with purported compliance with state or local law;
> *
> illegal possession or sale of other controlled substances; or
> *
> ties to other criminal enterprises.
> 
> Of course, no State can authorize violations of federal law, and the list of factors above is not intended to describe exhaustively when a federal prosecution may be warranted. Accordingly, in prosecutions under the Controlled Substances Act, federal prosecutors are not expected to charge, prove, or otherwise establish any state law violations. Indeed, this memorandum does not alter in any way the Department&#8217;s authority to enforce federal law, including laws prohibiting the manufacture, production, distribution, possession, or use of marijuana on federal property. This guidance regarding resource allocation does not &#8220;legalize&#8221; marijuana or provide a legal defense to a violation of federal law, nor is it intended to create any privileges, benefits, or rights, substantive or procedural, enforceable by any individual, party or witness in any administrative, civil, or criminal matter. Nor does clear and unambiguous compliance with state law or the absence of one or all of the above factors create a legal defense to a violation of the Controlled Substances Act. Rather, this memorandum is intended solely as a guide to the exercise of investigative and prosecutorial discretion.
> 
> Finally, nothing herein precludes investigation or prosecution where there is a reasonable basis to believe that compliance with state law is being invoked as a pretext for the production or distribution of marijuana for purposes not authorized by state law. Nor does this guidance preclude investigation or prosecution, even when there is clear and unambiguous compliance with existing state law, in particular circumstances where investigation or prosecution otherwise serves important federal interests.
> 
> Your offices should continue to review marijuana cases for prosecution on a case-by-case basis, consistent with the guidance on resource allocation and federal priorities set forth herein, the consideration of requests for federal assistance from state and local law enforcement authorities, and the Principles of Federal Prosecution.
> 
> cc: All United States Attorneys
> 
> Lanny A. Breuer
> Assistant Attorney General Criminal Division
> 
> B. Todd Jones
> United States Attorney
> District of Minnesota
> Chair, Attorney General&#8217;s Advisory Committee
> 
> Michele M. Leonhart
> Acting Administrator
> Drug Enforcement Administration
> 
> H. Marshall Jarrett
> Director
> Executive Office for United States Attorneys
> 
> Kevin L. Perkins
> Assistant Director
> Criminal Investigative Division
> Federal Bureau of Investigation


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## Reverend Raymondc

Screw them all! born outlaw die outlaw..Grow it! roll it..and toke em up Don
t need no Government to tell me what I can and can not smoke.Where I can buy smoke or or how to grow my smoke...Sorry to all the Dispensary that are shutting down....OutLAW Growing for life!


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## The New Girl

Reverend Raymondc said:
			
		

> Screw them all! born outlaw die outlaw..Grow it! roll it..and toke em up *Don*
> *t need no* Government to tell me what I can and can not smoke.Where I can buy smoke or or how to grow my smoke...Sorry to all the Dispensary that are shutting down....OutLAW Growing for life!


 
For your first post I give you an A   
PS You would have got an A+ if you hadn't used the double negative!!!


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## Roddy

Now if you'd have added STINKING to that, all would be good, Rev!


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## NorCalHal

Y'all got to see this as what it really is. This is the start of Pharma's "Big Takeover". I am actually suprised at how fast they are going.
I know some of you don't think so, but it's the truth.

Who is in charge of Law Enforcement in the USA right now? Eric Holder.
Sure is funny when he was a Lawyer, he represented Merck.
Look it up.


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## NorCalHal

Man, it's going to get worse before it gets better.

They are comin' after us big time. Do you guys see what they are doing?

This all has happened over the last 2 weeks. These bastids are comin' and comin' hard.


SAN FRANCISCO -- The federal government has found a new weapon in its war on marijuana &#8211; the tax man.

A San Francisco Bay area medical marijuana dispensary that promotes itself as the world's largest has been hit with a $2.4 million tax bill following an audit by the Internal Revenue Service, the dispensary founder said Tuesday.

The back taxes, penalties and interest levied against Harborside Health Center came after the IRS examined its returns for 2007 and 2008 and determined a 1982 tax code prohibiting cost deductions for businesses that traffic in illegal drugs applies to the dispensary.

Harborside is a spa-like fixture on Oakland's waterfront with 94,114 registered customers and 84 full-time employees that offers an average of 30 varieties of medical marijuana every day and has $22 million in annual sales.

"What kind of drug trafficking organization actually files a tax return? None of them do," said Harborside CEO Steve DeAngelo, who gave his auditor a personal tour of his posh apothecary. "The very fact that we filed a tax return and told the IRS all the details of what we are doing proves we are not a drug trafficking organization."

The IRS said the agency does not comment on individual audits.

DeAngelo, the subject of an upcoming Discovery Channel reality show, said the write-offs disallowed by the IRS included standard operating costs such as rent, payroll, employee health insurance and licensing fees.

Government auditors did not dispute, however, that Harborside had properly deducted its biggest expense &#8211; the millions of dollars it spent buying pot to sell to people who use it under California's medical marijuana law.

San Francisco tax attorney Henry Wykowski, who represents DeAngelo, said a 2007 case involving another California dispensary established that the cost of goods sold was a legitimate expense for businesses the IRS otherwise considers illegitimate.




"It goes all the way back to Prohibition," Wykowski explained. "They expect even businesses operating illegally to file tax returns, so they still have to give them their business deductions, and a cost of goods sold is the primary deduction that any business would have."

DeAngelo has until Dec. 22 to contest the audit in tax court. The IRS has told him it is now reviewing Harborside's returns for 2009 and 2010.

Meanwhile, a handful of state officials have written House Speaker John Boehner, a Republican, and Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Democrat, on behalf of DeAngelo, asking the two lawmakers to exempt "legally operating cannabis businesses" from the tax code section for drug traffickers.

DeAngelo said he does not have the $2.4 million the IRS wants. Like all legal medical marijuana dispensaries in California, Harborside operates as a nonprofit corporation while paying state sales taxes and a 5 percent local tax to Oakland &#8211; for a total of $3.1 million this year, he said.

"We would be happy to pay taxes like every other business does," he said. "No business, including Harborside, could survive if it's taxed on its gross revenue. All we want is to be treated like every other business in America."

Wykowski said he represents at least two dozen other California and Colorado pot dispensaries dealing with IRS audits. Some have persuaded auditors to accept deductions for auxiliary services such as on-site yoga classes, the time employees spend counseling customers as opposed to preparing marijuana, and quality testing. Others such as Harborside have been less successful.

"What the taxing authorities are losing sight of is if you tax these places out of business and make it so they can't compete, all it is going to do is boost underground sales," he said. "The guys on the street aren't paying their employees and if they are, they certainly aren't withholding taxes."


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## NorCalHal

Another Fun fact is how the Treasury dept is harrasing banking institutions into NOT dealing with the MMJ industry at all. If you operate a MMJ business INCLUDING a hydro store, banks are turning you away. All bad.


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## Roddy

Sorry Hal, seem s Unc Sam is wanting it both ways....ouch!


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## tcbud

Seems like the price of pot may go up again in California.   Also seems like there will be more grown outside the guidelines of the Medical Marijuana Industry in California.


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## Killertea08

I'm with ya Hal!  Big Pharma all the way,  I'm a licensed medical professional and can tell you that all prescription drugs with there long list of side effects will later on down the road become a big problem.  I see it time and time again in the hospital, how high cholesterol meds aka "Statins" really mess you up big time.  Side effects of "Statins"  drug induced erectile dysfunction aka ED.  Heart failure due to - the side effect decreases CoQ10 levels within the heart.  This essential nutrient serves as an energy producing molecule and is crucial to proper cardiovascular function.  Basically without it your heart fails.  Congestive heart Failure is to outcome.  Mental effects because statins dumb you down, by effecting the myelin sheath in the brain that causes forgetfulness.  Cancer because statins mimic a growth factor responsible for cancer proliferation, the growth factor is called VEGF (Vascular endothelial growth factor).  Basically its a Cancer fertilizer.  Get off statins ASAP.  I recommend the book I stated above in my previous post.


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## TerrorAP2

Here's the latest statement from the Sacramento Bee: "U.S. attorneys will be targeting major commercial operations in California - but said not every dispensary should expect a letter from the federal government. "Our intention is not to prosecute everybody in the state," he said. "Our intention is to get people's attention in order to deter this activity."

Read more: hxxp://blogs.sacbee.com/crime/archiv...#ixzz1a8FBsZNn


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## orangesunshine

once again the fed drives what is legal under state law into the black market---all those dispensaries are not growing their own---if i were on the books as a vendor to any dispensary---i would be sweating bullets right now---a federal review of their books becomes an open invitation for the fed to come a knockin' at growers' doors---be safe everyone---hope you all covered yo azz


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## Roddy

SACRAMENTO, Calif. &#8212; Federal prosecutors announced an aggressive crackdown on California pot dispensaries Friday, vowing to shut down dozens of growing and sales operations and saying that the worst offenders are using the cover of medical marijuana to act as storefront drug dealers.

Officials described it as the first coordinated statewide offensive against marijuana dealers and suppliers who use California's 15-year-old medical marijuana law as legal cover for running sophisticated drug trafficking ventures in plain sight.

"California's marijuana industry supplies the nation," said U.S. Attorney Benjamin Wagner, citing a 2009 federal study that 72 percent of marijuana plants eradicated nationwide were grown in California. "Huge amounts of marijuana grown here in this state is flowing east to other states, and huge amounts of money are flowing back in the opposite direction."

The actions were geared toward stopping a proliferation that has led to thousands of pot shops opening their doors across the state. The spread was fueled partly by the Obama administration's assurance two years ago that it did not plan to devote federal resources to countering marijuana outlets operating in compliance with state laws.

*One example cited by the prosecutors Friday: In one Orange County strip mall, eight of the 11 second-floor suites are occupied by dispensaries and doctors' offices for doctors where healthy individuals obtain "sham" recommendations to use medical marijuana.*

It is "a Costco, Walmart-type model that we see across California," said Andre Birotte Jr., U.S. attorney in the Los Angeles-area. Some people making money from medical marijuana openly revel in what some have called "the new California gold rush," he said.

Landlords leasing property to dozens of warehouses and agricultural parcels where marijuana is being grown and retail spaces where pot is sold over the counter are receiving written warnings to evict their tenants or face criminal charges or seizure of their assets, the state's four U.S. attorneys said.

"The intention regarding medical marijuana under California state law was to allow marijuana to be supplied to seriously ill people on a nonprofit basis," said U.S. Attorney Melinda Haag, the top federal law enforcement officer for the San Francisco Bay area. "What we are finding, however, is that California's laws have been hijacked by people who are in this to get rich and don't care at all about sick people."

The crackdown comes a little more than two months after the Obama administration toughened its stand on medical marijuana. For two years before that, federal officials had indicated they would not move aggressively against dispensaries in compliance with laws in the 16 states where pot is legal for people with doctors' recommendations.

The Department of Justice issued a policy memo to federal prosecutors in late June stating that marijuana dispensaries and licensed growers in states with medical marijuana laws could face prosecution for violating federal drug and money-laundering laws. The effort to shutter California dispensaries appeared to be the most far-reaching effort so far to put that guidance into action.

Increased federal intervention will likely unify marijuana growers and sellers in a drive to change federal policy, National Cannabis Industry Association spokeswoman Melissa Milam said.

"We're not going anywhere. We're mothers, we're patients, we're family members of patients," she said. "We want to pay taxes, we want to be able to make deposits at our bank, we want to be a business."

*Not all of the thousands of storefront pot dispensaries thought to be operating in the state are being targeted in the crackdown, which also involves new indictments and arrests of marijuana growers and vendors throughout the state over the past two weeks, said Wagner, who represents the state's Central Valley.*

The strategies federal authorities are using vary somewhat, with warning letters issued by the U.S. attorney in San Diego giving recipients 45 days to comply and property owners in Los Angeles, Orange County and the Central Coast given just two weeks to evict pot dispensaries or growers.

Haag said she is initially going after pot shops located close to schools, parks, sports fields and other places where there are a lot of children.

Wagner, who represents the state's Central Valley, also is targeting what he termed "significant commercial operations," including farmland where marijuana is being grown. Birotte is prioritizing dispensaries in communities where local officials have been trying unsuccessfully to shut down marijuana businesses.

Moreover, the four said their warnings were aimed at cities and counties that have started licensing and taxing marijuana shops.

"The ordinances are illegal under federal law," Haag said, citing an appellate court ruling this week against Long Beach's ordinance that charged shops fees to operate.

The California Board of Equalization has estimated medical marijuana generates between $53 million and $104 million in annual sales taxes on sales of between $700 million and $1.3 billion.

"If it creates revenue and jobs and increases safety, with all that's going on in the world and the nation, why is the federal government mounting this assault &#8212; just because they can?" asked attorney Mark Reichel, who represents three licensed Sacramento dispensaries that face federal charges or civil forfeitures.

"Absolutely it will have a chilling effect. More than that, it will have a freezing effect &#8212; it will freeze them out of the business," Reichel said. "A chilling effect is minor compared to what this is. This is a freezing winter storm."

Three of the four prosecutors declined to reveal how many dispensaries are subject to closure orders, saying only there were dozens in each of their four districts. Birotte said 38 property owners in his district were sent warnings.

Birotte said his office already had initiated property forfeiture proceedings involving three properties whose owners had received prior warnings.

The effort was criticized by two Democrat state legislators who represent San Francisco.

Assemblyman Tom Ammiano said the crackdown "means that Obama's medical marijuana policies are worse than Bush and Clinton. It's a tragic return to failed policies that will cost the state millions in tax revenue and harm countless lives."

"I don't understand the politics of it, and certainly if we haven't learned anything over the past century, it's that Prohibition does not work," added State Sen. Mark Leno, who has worked to safeguard and regulate medical marijuana in California.

Haag said the move is not designed to clamp down on patients who grow their own marijuana for medical use. But dispensaries that were not part of the initial wave of warning letters "shouldn't take any comfort," she said. "They are illegal under federal law."

"I understand there are people in California who believe marijuana stores should be allowed to exist, but I think we can all agree we don't need marijuana stores across the street from schools and Little League fields," she said.

Wagner said individual U.S. attorneys general in other states including Nevada, Oregon and Washington state have also coordinated actions with the U.S. Department of Justice.

But Justin Williams, the manager and marijuana grower at Mayflower Wellness in downtown Denver, said he believes Colorado's regulations on growing marijuana makes the state less of a target than California.

"I think their main concern is the lack of regulation in California with the explosion that's happened," he said.


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## TerrorAP2

Here is something to that extent: hxxp://www.kcra.com/news/29419682/detail.html


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## NorCalHal

Actually Orange, they are not trippin on IF the dispensaries are growing thier own herb. That was the one deduction that the IRS allowed Harborside. They allowed the monies spent on the wholesale product, but taxed on the full retail sales.
Technically, any member of the dispensary is allowed to "donate" thier herb to the Collective/Dispensary and the collective/dispensary is allowed to "compensate" you money for time and efforts and cost of growing the herb.

Judging from the amount of letters sent and the city/county locations it looks to me like the Cities that are having a hard time fighting the dispensaries and failing to have them shut down under State law, they are again bringing in Federal help to shut it down.
Harborside just got audited and is being audited again by the IRS, yet they did not recieve a letter.
Another big reason is that has become a TOTAL out in the open Industry. The Feds not reacting at all to what has taken place the last couple years is allready amazing to me. 
But again, cats out of the bag, and they really have no choice but to either allow it and regulate it, or build some more prisons.
We are ready either way.


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## NorCalHal

hXXp://www.news10.net/news/pdf/fed-pot-crackdown.pdf

This is the actual "scare letter" they sent. Haha...I dealt with R&R for a short time, but I knew dude was a punk. He got what he deserved.

Straight up, they are throwing a pint of water on a forest fire. 

Will this deter folks? Sure. That is what the Feds want. It will curtail alot of landlords from renting to MMJ folk, which is a HUGE trend I am seeing. Property owners LOOKING for MMJ folks to rent to. We pay on time and pay cash.

More to say, but dinner time.


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## Hick

> build some more prisons.


 = "jobs plan" :rofl:


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## The New Girl

Let's call a spade a spade. Cali is no role model for med mj. They have abused it to death. I was out there two weeks ago and the 2nd disp I went into let me buy. The next day I went to a Cali doc and I now how a valid Cali med card, with no id or proof of living there. It is a sham there, let's face it... and it's such a joke I can see why it pees off the Feds. The doc I saw was a quack from a soap opera. His last statement was "Now young lady, marijuana is not a cure all."  YES SIR! You can't defend stupid, well except some folks in northern Cali - which I did get to visit BTW, saw some grows and a trim session... I do have a connection there Hal... and I'm certainly not clueless as you might want to believe.


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## Roddy

yeah, well...they're mavericks afterall....or so I'm told


----------



## TerrorAP2

There are a few bad eggs and they will all be dealt with. Every dispensary I've been too has made sure that I had my recommendation as well as an ID, and in some small cases, my actually MMIC. If a place even looks "shady", I don't bother and move on to the next one.


----------



## NorCalHal

It's nice to know you went back home New Girl and got the heck out of my state, as we don't need any more federal sympathisers.
Lets call your thinking what it is....conservitive.
What you call abuse I call our rights as American citizens.

Too late also, Cali is leading the way...again.

So I suppose you saw legit grows huh? I am sure your "friends" here are following the letter of the law and growing for personal use.....

Maybe, if you were awake, you saw a small part of a huge industry that has no Federal guidelines in place and in fact, an Industry that is allowed under State Law but is completely illegal under Federal law.

That is what this is about, not your personal conservitive veiw of what you think is right and wrong.

This is about forcing the Feds to react, be it to imprision folks or change thier policy. Maybe if you get your way, we can all go to jail. Makes me ill.


----------



## Rosebud

The New Girl said:
			
		

> Let's call a spade a spade. Cali is no role model for med mj. They have abused it to death. I was out there two weeks ago and the 2nd disp I went into let me buy. The next day I went to a Cali doc and I now how a valid Cali med card, with no id or proof of living there. It is a sham there, let's face it... and it's such a joke I can see why it pees off the Feds. The doc I saw was a quack from a soap opera. His last statement was "Now young lady, marijuana is not a cure all."  YES SIR! You can't defend stupid, well except some folks in northern Cali - which I did get to visit BTW, saw some grows and a trim session... I do have a connection there Hal... and I'm certainly not clueless as you might want to believe.



I had just the opposite happen when i was there. I had a MMJ card for Cali. i tried three different dispensary's that would not sell to me as i didn't have a state drivers liscense or other ID. I finally found a nice delivery service that checked out my MMj card and delivered. 
I thought they were great "role models for MMJ"

You go NCH... As cali goes so does the NW. for the most part. Let us know what we can do to help.


----------



## Roddy

Rosebud said:
			
		

> I had just the opposite happen when i was there. I had a MMJ card for Cali. i tried three different dispensary's that would not sell to me as i didn't have a state drivers liscense or other ID. I finally found a nice delivery service that checked out my MMj card and delivered.
> I thought they were great "role models for MMJ"
> 
> You go NCH... As cali goes so does the NW. for the most part. Let us know what we can do to help.



I'm gonna guess it's the area you're in more than anything. 

Hal, keep your head up and your rear covered, my friend! Sounds like you'd better cover your wallet too...lol

Now, that's a dangerous job, mmj delviery driver...WOW!


----------



## Herm

NorCalHal maybe if you didn't constantly come across as a berating ******* people would listen to you.  If you are any example of what the cali medical scene is like I am glad you are on the other side of the country from me.  I think you also also vastly over estimate peoples resolve if the feds start handing out 60 year prison terms.  You dont get a 2nd go round at life and I dont know anyone who wants to sit in a cell for any cause.


----------



## NorCalHal

Herm said:
			
		

> I think you also also vastly over estimate peoples resolve if the feds start handing out 60 year prison terms.  You dont get a 2nd go round at life and I dont know anyone who wants to sit in a cell for any cause.


 
Hi Herm, thanks for dropping in. Trust me my angry friend, it is not just my resolve, it is the majority of folks here.
I am but a small fish in a huge pond. From what the Feds are saying and doing, I am not at risk. The true hero's are the dispensary owners standing out in public pushing the envelope.

Your statement above says it all about your understanding of the Industry.


I actually sat and thought about this today for a bit. What irratates me to no end is folk's "Idea" of what MMJ is supposed to be.

I am GLAD I live in a state and a cluelees girl from another state can come and go to a Dispensary and buy herb.

I am proud of the doctor that gave that girl legal protection to smoke up in my beloved State.

And yet, the girl berates our system and denounces it.

Thats the thing people, it should be allowed for all anyway, and our MMJ system is set up that way, to protect anyone who darn well wants it.

What you call a sham, I call not enough.

IMHO, I think other states that restrict who can and cannot get MMJ are just skirting the real issue. 

Call me what you want, what can I say, I have MARIJUANA PASSION.


----------



## Roddy

Right Hal, it should be....but it isn't.


----------



## Roddy

The real issue has been on the news, complete with signs and such they say are advertisements of dispensaries (I already know, you're gonna say they themselves made the signs to make dispensaries look bad). They're talking about the same things NEW GIRL is saying here....but guess what, they're saying it where others can see it...

Been telling you, it's about perception...and Unc Sam and other states are seeing what's going on, it's WHY we're having our troubles (yet you're mavericks). Keep riding, my friend...


----------



## pcduck

I believe the real issue is that a person should have the right to do as they please as long as it does not harm another person.Just my $0.02 :bolt::bong:


----------



## Roddy

You don't get there overnight, pc, wish we could though....


----------



## NorCalHal

You lost me a little Roddy with the "signs and advertisements".
We have full blown TV advertisements daily on major networks. This is bad?

Again, like I have been telling you my friend, We don't really care about how other states perceive our MMJ laws. MMJ law in ALL other states is never discussed.
Again man, it was US, the CALI VOTERS who passed 215 the way we did.
It was passed to allow virtually anyone the right to smoke herb and be protected. I am flabbergasted in the fact that outside folks see this as bad, particulary tokers.

IE, what if we had passed the legalization of MJ to all adults a couple of years ago. It seemed that EVERYONE on the board here wanted that to pass.
Just think what the Feds would be doing right now. They would be freaking out busting everyone is my guess.
But yet, all of you on this board would be behind us 100%

That is why I trip. We basically passed laws protecting folks from State level prosicution, but had to name it "Medical Marijuana" in order to get it passed. This started a NATIONWIDE trend with other states following suit.
Our law allowed cultivation and distribution, along with legal protection. Medical conditions listed were pretty much wide open for any doctor to give a Rec to anyone over the age of 18 to get thier Rec. This is/was the next best thing to full legalization. We fought the State on many levels to allow Dispensaries to distribute, and won. 

Now the States that passed thier own "mmj" laws are pointing the finger at us and telling us that we are too lenient. 

Again, think if we had passed full legaization 2 years ago. What would you all be saying now.

It's the friggin same thing man. As far as Cali, it is LEGAL everything that is going on. There has been no State level prosecutions, because it is legal under state law.

So, Cali, AGAIN, is fighting for your rights. It is going to take more Californians to go to prison to get the Feds to set up some sort of Federal regulation. That will be the next step.

The troubles you and your State are having are your own, not ours. You boys jumped at the first MMJ bill thrown your way and are cryin' about it being so restrictive. You all passed it, live with it, or change it.

Again, I am proud to live in a state where we are pushing the envelope.

Not to worry Roddy, when we win and get the Feds to change, you can thank me then.


----------



## Roddy

You Cali people pretend your crap doesn't stink....wake up. 

Maybe you should watch some CNN or MSNBC or FOX or HEADLINE NEWS....

It's not the other states HAL, WAKE UP....

And Hal, you're right, and I have said this a few times now, we are all along for the ride...whether we're liking the ride or not. Sure hope the driver has enough sense to get us where we want to go.


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> The troubles you and your State are having are your own, not ours. You boys jumped at the first MMJ bill thrown your way and are cryin' about it being so restrictive. You all passed it, live with it, or change it.
> 
> .



You've said this one so many times, I'm beginning to think you actually believe it. Hmmm, so all the other states got it wrong, just Cali had the brains to get it right? :rofl: :rofl:

No man, the damned waters were so muddy from all the crap Cali was pulling, we were lucky to even get it on the ballot....thanks!


----------



## getnasty

Hal,


How do you think the fight for completely legalizing marijuana, on both the state and federal fronts, is going to go in the future, if the dispensary owners and prescribing physicians can't follow the regulations put in place before them? That makes you proud? Why would it make you proud when it is harming our progress in turning around the assbackwards legalities concerning marijuana in our nation? I am in 100% agreement with you that we should not be prohibited in smoking the herb from a plant that grows out of the ground from a seed, much like we are not prohibited to drink alcohol. But, my friend, being proud of these peoples' blatant disregard for following rules and regulations isn't right, in my opinion It is only proving to the federal government that legalizing it would create more problems than it would solve. And that's exactly why the feds are cracking down on marijuana dispensaries in Cali - as I see it, anyways. While Cali may be "fighting for our rights," those few dispensaries and physicians are counterproductive in that fight. Get rid of them.


-nasty


----------



## orangesunshine

---------------------------------------------------------------------------
WHITE HOUSE CALL-IN CAMPAIGN AGAINST OBAMA'S WAR ON MEDICAL  
MARIJUANA:  TUES OCT 11

***Distribute far and wide
Flood the White House Hot Line - Tell Obama to stop wasting federal  
enforcement resources on medical marijuana.  Phone 202-456-1111    
Tues Oct 11th (6am - 2pm PDT) Vent you opinion after the holiday  
weekend ;  if you can't get through Tuesday Oct 11, keep calling!    
Let's make sure that marijuana is the number one thing the President  
hears about.    E-mail address: xxx.whitehouse.gov/contact.
On-line petitions:

<hXXps://wwws.whitehouse.gov/petitio...cal-cannabis-dispensaries-california/FkSf2Y1w 
>

hXXp://www.change.org/petitions/oba...rijuana-activities?share_id=KLQrBRnZnr&pe=pce

Cal NORML Release


----------



## Roddy

getnasty said:
			
		

> Hal,
> 
> 
> How do you think the fight for completely legalizing marijuana, on both the state and federal fronts, is going to go in the future, if the dispensary owners and prescribing physicians can't follow the regulations put in place before them? That makes you proud? Why would it make you proud when it is harming our progress in turning around the assbackwards legalities concerning marijuana in our nation? I am in 100% agreement with you that we should not be prohibited in smoking the herb from a plant that grows out of the ground from a seed, much like we are not prohibited to drink alcohol. But, my friend, being proud of these peoples' blatant disregard for following rules and regulations isn't right, in my opinion It is only proving to the federal government that legalizing it would create more problems than it would solve. And that's exactly why the feds are cracking down on marijuana dispensaries in Cali - as I see it, anyways. While Cali may be "fighting for our rights," those few dispensaries and physicians are counterproductive in that fight. Get rid of them.
> 
> 
> -nasty



In his eyes, they're doing absolutely nothing wrong, my friend. They're mavericks...


----------



## getnasty

Yeah, I've gathered that from his writings. It doesn't make any sense to me, personally. You'd think someone so seemingly active in the marijuana industry would favor any and all actions that gain headway into the legalization of it, on a federal level; not just the state level, for the state in which he resides. Afterall, legalization of medical marijuana on the federal level would relieve the stresses California dispensaries are receiving right now. For the time being, fight them off, but fight them off of the dispensaries that are following the regulations set forth, not the ones who arent. You might not agree with the who's or why's they are prosecuting them, or even care, but in order to establish unity between federal and state governments, we're going to have to prove that we can follow the regulations bestowed upon the industry by our individual state governments.

California is just a part of a whole... it should care about how the whole feels about the part, because it's only by establishing a system that is regulated and explicitly followed, that the nation is going to achieve legalized Medical Marijuana. I personally don't think it ever will. There are enough ignorant people in the nation that oppose legalizing it, and believe it is a harmful substance. Having said that, I fully expect the federal government to continue targeting dispensaries and growers in any state, being on the course that they are. If they prosecute dispensaries in Cali, they have to prosecute dispensaries in other states with legalized medical marijuana dispensaries. Otherwise Californianas will become irate because their dispensaries were shut down while other states' dispensaries were not. California is just the Feds' first target and market for developing a strategy in taking down dispensaries in other states. If things change in the future, who knows? But right now, I don't think it'll happen.


-nasty


----------



## Herm

Hal I am not judging you based on what you are posting I am judging you on how you treat people who disagree with you.  The scene may be exactly like you say it is but if you constantly berate people they are not even going to consider your opinions.  You may be right about the industry you may be wrong, but you sure do treat a lot of people on here like crap when they disagree with you.


----------



## Hick

I've about had a bellyfull of the insolence myself. I'm sick of your "I'm fighting for your rights" bull crap. Tired of your "we're better" attitude as well.  If you can't talk without degrading and insults, just "don't"... 
Cali is and has been at the forefront of the fight against prohibition. THAT doesn't make them 'right', our 'savior', or a 'model' program.  It has certainly caused as much harm as it has 'good' for other states.


----------



## NorCalHal

Cry me a river.

Now Gentlemen, I don't think we are better then any other State at all.
All I am sayin' is quit yer cryin' over what we do in our State, simple as that. We are not going to change crap. I will defend my State and the choices we make and the folks living in it.
I am sick of it too Hick, very Sick.

I can see noone commented on the statement of what would be happening now if we had passed full legalization. The Feds would be so much more on us it wouldn't be funny, and all you others would be behind us.

Do not blame me for your ill conceived views of what is "Medical Marijuana" and how YOU think our law should work.

Alot of you think that folks are not following our State Laws, but in fact We are. Again, for those with reading comprehension skills, No one in our State has been arrested for running ANY dispensary by ANY State agency.
Why is that Smart guys????

Simpley put, we ARE following STATE law.

Now, who is coming down on us...Federal Law Enforcement. Why is that? 
Because they say we are not following the law in thier eyes. But those eyes see only Federal Laws in which MMJ is the same as Heroin.
Now for those that believe everything they see on TV, they spin the tail of rouge Dispensaries not operating under state law.

Now, if this was the case Roddy, why wouldn't State agencies shut them down???? Because they can't my friend, because they are operating correctly.

Like I said, I'm tired of tryin' to explain my States MMJ laws to folks that allready have a closed mind due to "The News".


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> You've said this one so many times, I'm beginning to think you actually believe it. Hmmm, so all the other states got it wrong, just Cali had the brains to get it right? :rofl: :rofl:
> 
> No man, the damned waters were so muddy from all the crap Cali was pulling, we were lucky to even get it on the ballot....thanks!


 
It's nice to know that Cali has control of what Michegans citizens put on the ballot. It's also nice to know that MI is the only other State that recognizes Cali MMJ Recs.

Now thats funny.


----------



## NorCalHal

getnasty said:
			
		

> Hal,
> 
> 
> How do you think the fight for completely legalizing marijuana, on both the state and federal fronts, is going to go in the future, if the dispensary owners and prescribing physicians can't follow the regulations put in place before them? That makes you proud? Why would it make you proud when it is harming our progress in turning around the assbackwards legalities concerning marijuana in our nation? I am in 100% agreement with you that we should not be prohibited in smoking the herb from a plant that grows out of the ground from a seed, much like we are not prohibited to drink alcohol. But, my friend, being proud of these peoples' blatant disregard for following rules and regulations isn't right, in my opinion It is only proving to the federal government that legalizing it would create more problems than it would solve. And that's exactly why the feds are cracking down on marijuana dispensaries in Cali - as I see it, anyways. While Cali may be "fighting for our rights," those few dispensaries and physicians are counterproductive in that fight. Get rid of them.
> 
> 
> -nasty


 
Again nasty, we ARE following State law. Look it up man. The Feds are pissed cause we blew it out big time. The State has no say in it because we are following State Law.

This is a Federal issue, not a personal issue.


----------



## NorCalHal

Hick said:
			
		

> Cali is and has been at the forefront of the fight against prohibition.


 
You got that right.


----------



## dman1234

I just deleted my thread on this same subject, no point starting this all over again, LOL, anyway here is the article i posted from todays USA Today.

hXXp://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2011/10/feds-order-all-calif-medical-marijuana-outlets-to-close/1


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> It's nice to know that Cali has control of what Michegans citizens put on the ballot. It's also nice to know that MI is the only other State that recognizes Cali MMJ Recs.
> 
> Now thats funny.




You're so full of yourself you don't see what's right in front of you. OF COURSE you had pull, all those who were on the fence were WATCHING YOU. Man, this isn't rocket science.....


----------



## getnasty

> I am sick of it too Hick, very Sick.


He was speaking directly to you in regard to berating behavior toward others. It's on the forum rules to treat everybody with respect - no exceptions.



> Like I said, I'm tired of tryin' to explain my States MMJ laws to folks that allready have a closed mind due to "The News".


 We're tired of trying to help you understand that not EVERYBODY in your state is following the laws you guys have established. You don't seem to grasp that concept. This is the reason the feds are up your guff right now. Federal law trumps state law. California is not some great country within a country... it's 1 part of 50 states that make up this country. While your local officials may not target you guys for having dispensaries, federal officers have jurisdiction anywhere in the country, and if something violates federal law, they will jump all over it.

They initially left you guys alone... for what reason? To jerk your chain into thinking you wouldn't be prosecuted for it? More than likely because they didnt care. Now figures of 70 some odd percent of confiscated marijuana on the eastern seaboard and abroad is marijuana grown in Cali; proven through soil analysis. That's reason enough for them to intiate the investigation of the dispensaries in CA.

And I highly doubt every single one of the dispensaries out there is non-profit. They might advertise that, but it certainly doesn't mean that they are. Bear in mind that I'm not saying all of the dispensaries are in the wrong, and I'm not saying that the Feds aren't going overboard with their persecution. But I am saying that if you truely think everybody in California is following the regulations to a T, whether theyre growing privately, growing for a dispensary, or are a dispensary themselves, you need a reality check. The feds didnt just wake up one morning and decide that they'd like to prosecute dispensaries in legal MMJ Cali for no reason. As I said, they left you alone at first. now they've been given a reason to take action.




-nasty


----------



## NorCalHal

Ahhhh....calm....Man I love good herb.


Now, I want to apologise to anyone I have offended...except newgirl...irritates me to no end.

I truly do not intend to come across like a jerk, but if I do, what can I say. Believe me when I say that that is not the first time I have heard that irl. lol
I run a Cali legal Collective filed with the State. I have Lawyers on the team along with multiple lifelong friends. We are following State law to the T.
Yes, I make a living off of it. I am the CEO of my collective and I am entiltled to monetery compensation for my time and efforts. This is all legal under State Law.
Under Federal Law, and in some of your eyes, I am a Criminal. Sad.

I have strong views man, and I am passionate about this subject, as it affects me personally. I know many folks that have been caught up in Federal cases that would have never made it to a Cali court.
That is the real issue.

What has taken place over the last 2 years in my state has been a game changer. There are more dispensaries then Starbucks and McDonalds combined. It has exploded across the State. There are many Labs that do testing and packaging. There are "grow room" consulting firms. There are Grow room "Classification" programs. There are Candy makerrs, Hash Makers and MMJ Delivery Drivers. There are Doctors and Lawyers and such involved in the Industry.
For my State, it has been a driving force in our economic recovery.

Now, personally, I think that there are too many dispensaries, and yes, some are shady, just like YOUR local 7-11 that buy stolen ciggerettes and resell them. There are bad apples in every Industry.
Just don't get caught up in news stories that say most all of them are bad, cause they are not.

The last thing I want is division amongst the US Stoner population, but I think that will allways be from postings on this board.


----------



## orangesunshine

here is the cliff note version---the fed is flexing its muscle and trumping state law in cali cause elections are coming up and they need to show the fight on drug agenda for the conservatives and votes---it's easy pickin's for them---they are building their platform---take down a few big dispensaries splash the news and move on---the other twist to that is BIG PHARMA lobbyists fueling the fire with their BIG $$$---these are the muthas you got to watch out for---


----------



## getnasty

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> here is the cliff note version---the fed is flexing its muscle and trumping state law in cali cause elections are coming up and they need to show the fight on drug agenda for the conservatives and votes---it's easy pickin's for them---they are building their platform---take down a few big dispensaries splash the news and move on---the other twist to that is BIG PHARMA lobbyists fueling the fire with their BIG $$$---these are the muthas you got to watch out for---


Very good points you bring up!


----------



## NorCalHal

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> here is the cliff note version---the fed is flexing its muscle and trumping state law in cali cause elections are coming up and they need to show the fight on drug agenda for the conservatives and votes---it's easy pickin's for them---they are building their platform---take down a few big dispensaries splash the news and move on---the other twist to that is BIG PHARMA lobbyists fueling the fire with their BIG $$$---these are the muthas you got to watch out for---


 
Spot on.

I just don't think folks in other Staes see this. They don't see the Merck rep at MMJ Conferences. They don't see the Pfizer Reps at MMJ Expo's gathering info and intelligence. That's the BIG picture they don't see yet.

If the Feds can say "Hey look, Cali dispensaies are being ran by criminals", they can say we ARE going to regulate it and let Big Pharma handle production and distribution to eleviate the criminal element. Why, cause Big Pharma will kick them back come election time.

If they can take over Cali, they can take the rest of the States programs too.
That is what they are setting up.


----------



## Roddy

But then, why mainly Cali?


----------



## getnasty

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Yes, I make a living off of it. I am the CEO of my collective and I am entiltled to monetery compensation for my time and efforts. This is all legal under State Law.
> 
> Under Federal Law, and in some of your eyes, I am a Criminal. Sad.


 Very sad. But, in my eyes, you are not a criminal. You are following the rules.



> What has taken place over the last 2 years in my state has been a game changer. There are more dispensaries then Starbucks and McDonalds combined. It has exploded across the State. There are many Labs that do testing and packaging. There are "grow room" consulting firms. There are Grow room "Classification" programs. There are Candy makerrs, Hash Makers and MMJ Delivery Drivers. There are Doctors and Lawyers and such involved in the Industry.
> *For my State, it has been a driving force in our economic recovery.*


This is one factor that I hold very high in my thoughts on legalizing marijuana. The economic recovery would be huge across the entire nation with new industries unveiling and bringing about more business.



> Now, personally, I think that there are too many dispensaries, and yes, some are shady, just like YOUR local 7-11 that buy stolen ciggerettes and resell them. There are bad apples in every Industry.
> Just don't get caught up in news stories that say most all of them are bad, cause they are not.


Right on, bud. If I was trying to say anything, I was trying to say this. Unfortunately, those bad apples, in your industry, are attracting federal attention.


Also, I thank you very much for the rational reply. 



-nasty


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> Man, this isn't rocket science.....


 
I like Rocket Science. RedNeck style!


----------



## getnasty

Roddy said:
			
		

> But then, why mainly Cali?


Because, when you're in Georgia and you hear Medical Marijuana, you think, "OH! RIGHT! California!" They are the frontiersmen in the industry. The first to legalize marijuana. Stop it where the fame is, stop it for good. Also, it's much easier to centralize your resources in one state than to spread it about amongst many.


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> But then, why mainly Cali?


 
Simple Roddy, we have FAR more dispensaries then anyother state. They can shut down 100 and it really will have no effect on patients getting thier herb.

Now, if they came to MI and shut down the limited amount of dispensaies, folks would cry out and make a HUGE fuss right?

The Feds know what they are doing.

Why won't they target Harborside? They just got audited by the IRS, they have aTV show called Weed Wars on Discovery channel. They know if they shut down Harborside, HUGE protests that will be covered by mainstream Media will take place. Politics.


----------



## NorCalHal

I hope I don't get banned, I love these discussions.

I love Colorado too! (this is a feable attempt to make Hick smile and not ban me)


----------



## Roddy

getnasty said:
			
		

> Because, when you're in Georgia and you hear Medical Marijuana, you think, "OH! RIGHT! California!" They are the frontiersmen in the industry. The first to legalize marijuana. Stop it where the fame is, stop it for good. Also, it's much easier to centralize your resources in one state than to spread it about amongst many.




See what I mean about the pull Cali has/had on other states? You may not think it's happening, but it is, my friend!


----------



## orangesunshine

Roddy said:
			
		

> But then, why mainly Cali?


---cali is in the spot light---after all---has any other state ever even had legalization on their ballot never mind come close to legalizing the whole enchilada---:48:


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> See what I mean about the pull Cali has/had on other states? You may not think it's happening, but it is, my friend!


 
So what should we do man? Shut down all of our dispensaries? Fold under Federal pressure?
I can't convince FoxNews to do a positive story on our scene, and there are far more positives then negitives.


----------



## Roddy

I didn't say there was much you could do, save maybe act responsibly as it sounds you are. Maybe encourage responsible actions through positive marketing, discourage irresponsible actions by denouncing the shifty docs and dispensaries....


----------



## getnasty

Fox is a republican network anyways. They wouldn't do a positive story on it or they'd shut down their own doors. Lol. And while there might be far more positive than negatives, the feds are always going to emphasize the gravity of the negative side.  With bad news coming out of Cali about this, other states are going to be less inclined to follow suit. But, if this is just a political election thing, after it's over we should see the return of normal activity in Cali. Could also just be the Fed's saying "Don't get too comfortable with it, we're still in charge" too. Either way, anything that goes on cali is going to effect the rest of us... it's just natural. Let it flow, imo. When the tension eases up in Cali, our individual state governments will ease up too, and our windows to legalize medical marijuana will open wider than they previously were.


----------



## Roddy

getnasty said:
			
		

> Fox is a republican network anyways. They wouldn't do a positive story on it or they'd shut down their own doors. Lol. And while there might be far more positive than negatives, the feds are always going to emphasize the gravity of the negative side.  With bad news coming out of Cali about this, other states are going to be less inclined to follow suit. But, if this is just a political election thing, after it's over we should see the return of normal activity in Cali. Could also just be the Fed's saying "Don't get too comfortable with it, we're still in charge" too. Either way, anything that goes on cali is going to effect the rest of us... it's just natural. Let it flow, imo. When the tension eases up in Cali, our individual state governments will ease up too, and our windows to legalize medical marijuana will open wider than they previously were.



I'm not so inclined to believe the govt theory as a whole, that may be a driving force, but I think the bad press has been building too long and it's irked the President. On the news channels, I've seen some of the state reps and local community leaders on there denouncing as well, politically driven? Maybe, maybe not.

President Obama cracking down on dispensaries might make him some money for his election kettle, might make him friends in big pharma, but he'll be losing the voters who believe in MMJ, and we are a growing number. I'm sure he knows this, and I'm sure he knows he needs all the support he can get, wherever that may come from. I believe he's going to act upon the bad eggs; the ones set up illegally or in bad areas etc (as he has said in several of the bulletins sent out) so as to keep a balance and to make the most friends he can.


----------



## orangesunshine

PREDICTION---every October in cali there will a huge media splash for the federal war on drugs because it is harvest time---easy pickins' for the the conservatives to jump on the band wagon, show their loyalty, and their constituents (sheep) they mean business cause fed trumps state---it is used to drive whatever agenda they are pushing---donations, donations, donations to build the campaign fund

in all business there will be some that don't play by the rules---let's not bury the whole movement for full blown legalization cause of a minority knuckleheads got caught acting outside the state medical parameters---there are way many more people following the state law and doing the right thing than not


----------



## pcduck

getnasty said:
			
		

> Because, when you're in Georgia and......



That is your main problem. Real nice place to visit but I sure would not want to live there.just my $0.02


----------



## pcduck

Roddy said:
			
		

> I believe he's going to act upon the bad eggs; the ones set up illegally or in bad areas etc



As they should if they be in Cali or MI


----------



## Locked

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> in all business there will be some that don't play by the rules---let's not bury the whole movement for full blown legalization cause of a minority knuckleheads got caught acting outside the state medical parameters---there are way many more people following the state law and doing the right thing than not



Exactly...Have we outlawed Tobacco because Habeeb at the local 7-11 sold cigs to some 16 year old? Not to mention alcohol wld be soooo banned because it is constantly sold to minors.

I don't think the feds are concerned with the bad eggs so much as they are really concerned that the cry for MJ to be legalized gets louder and louder.  I mean if MJ is this oh so dangerous and evil drug then it doesn't look so good for the feds when a place like Cali hasn't exactly become over run with MJ addicts when they hve the most relaxed MJ laws out there. jmo


----------



## Roddy

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> in all business there will be some that don't play by the rules---*let's not bury the whole movement for full blown legalization cause of a minority knuckleheads got caught acting outside the state medical parameters*---there are way many more people following the state law and doing the right thing than not



I haven't seen this happen, have been pointing this out all along myself. However, some don't like to agree that there's actually bad in Cali, period.


----------



## Roddy

pcduck said:
			
		

> As they should if they be in Cali or MI



Agreed...why I asked why only Cali this time around. If I wanted to make a REAL statement, I'd make these threats to all MMJ states. I mean, if it's like is said and only threats, the cost is a few stamps and envelopes...right?


----------



## Locked

Roddy said:
			
		

> However, some don't like to agree that there's actually bad in Cali, period.



I don't think anyone here is so naive to think that bad apples/people are everywhere. It is a sad fact.....


----------



## dman1234

Its all Big Pharma and Lobyists fault.


----------



## Roddy

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> I don't think anyone here is so naive to think that bad apples/people are everywhere. It is a sad fact.....




idk, some of these discussions have had certain Cali people acting this way..... :rofl:


----------



## pcduck

Roddy said:
			
		

> Agreed...why I asked why only Cali this time around. If I wanted to make a REAL statement, I'd make these threats to all MMJ states. I mean, if it's like is said and only threats, the cost is a few stamps and envelopes...right?



I don't if they all got the letter, but I know of a few raids that have happened in MI. I think it just makes for better news to do it in CA


----------



## getnasty

pcduck said:
			
		

> That is your main problem. Real nice place to visit but I sure would not want to live there.just my $0.02


Hehe, I was picking Georgia as an example, I don't live there.  I'm on the east coast, yes, but a bit more north than GA. 


-nasty


----------



## Roddy

Yeah, a few have been busted...the ones I think I remember were acting grossly outside the law. These were a year or so back?


----------



## Roddy

I believe I just heard that Topeka Kansas can't afford to prosecute domestic violence....may lead to decriminalization of beating your loved one? Isn't this a state that's hard on mj?


----------



## pcduck

Roddy said:
			
		

> Yeah, a few have been busted...the ones I think I remember were acting grossly outside the law. These were a year or so back?



This June, is the one that I personally know. Was well within the law, but was a _in the limelight_ advocate. Took everything, eventfully got it all back, but nothing worked. And who knows if they made copies of _the books_.


----------



## Roddy

Yeah, you seem a bit outside my news area....Detroitish?

They had announced that all dispensaries were illegal here in MI, not sure whatever came of that though. Maybe it was just grumblings or something, but the dozen or so around me are still active.


----------



## pcduck

Roddy said:
			
		

> Yeah, you seem a bit outside my news area....Detroitish?
> 
> They had announced that all dispensaries were illegal here in MI, not sure whatever came of that though. Maybe it was just grumblings or something, but the dozen or so around me are still active.



Father was an Up'er

Still have property there and in North Central MI. Have friends in Western MI. I am now across the border.


----------



## The New Girl

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> It's nice to know you went back home New Girl and got the heck out of my state, as we don't need any more federal sympathisers.
> Lets call your thinking what it is....conservitive.
> What you call abuse I call our rights as American citizens.
> 
> Too late also, Cali is leading the way...again.
> 
> So I suppose you saw legit grows huh? I am sure your "friends" here are following the letter of the law and growing for personal use.....
> 
> Maybe, if you were awake, you saw a small part of a huge industry that has no Federal guidelines in place and in fact, an Industry that is allowed under State Law but is completely illegal under Federal law.
> 
> That is what this is about, not your personal conservitive veiw of what you think is right and wrong.
> 
> This is about forcing the Feds to react, be it to imprision folks or change thier policy. Maybe if you get your way, we can all go to jail. Makes me ill.


 

Hal it's always about you being right and the rest of us are wrong. You continually put people down to to make your point. Frankly I see you say the same crap making Cali the all mighty. Other states passed med laws for a reason. Med mj actually works for many, just because you are a stoner and brag how you guys get med cards for even a hangnail is also the same reason other states are having problems getting Med mj laws that are reasonable. You call me clueless, conservative and many other things to feed your ego and only confirm to others your insecurity.

What my friends do is none of your business in their grows...period. I do know I'm welcome back and they loved some ideas I "shared" with them. I didn't preach to them like you but offered them some ideas for inspection.

 If you go to jail don't drop the soap... well maybe yes for you. I am on a forum stating my view, this is what this is about, not Hal's forum but everyones... conservative, liberal, radical or whatever but stop judging us. I'm done ever talking to you as it's a waste of time, you just see your view always and don't "see" anything else and enjoy putting people down. You gave me a bad rep and called me clueless just because I told a brand new person he had a good first post. I was trying to make him feel welcome but big bad Hal had to straighten that out. If your ego gets any bigger you'll have to move to another planet.

Go ahead and slam me all you want now because you're dead in my book... and I'm sure MANY here share my view.


----------



## The New Girl

getnasty said:
			
		

> Hal,
> 
> 
> How do you think the fight for completely legalizing marijuana, on both the state and federal fronts, is going to go in the future, if the dispensary owners and prescribing physicians can't follow the regulations put in place before them? That makes you proud? Why would it make you proud when it is harming our progress in turning around the assbackwards legalities concerning marijuana in our nation? I am in 100% agreement with you that we should not be prohibited in smoking the herb from a plant that grows out of the ground from a seed, much like we are not prohibited to drink alcohol. But, my friend, being proud of these peoples' blatant disregard for following rules and regulations isn't right, in my opinion It is only proving to the federal government that legalizing it would create more problems than it would solve. And that's exactly why the feds are cracking down on marijuana dispensaries in Cali - as I see it, anyways. While Cali may be "fighting for our rights," those few dispensaries and physicians are counterproductive in that fight. Get rid of them.
> 
> 
> -nasty


 
:yeahthat:


----------



## The New Girl

Hick said:
			
		

> I've about had a bellyfull of the insolence myself. I'm sick of your "I'm fighting for your rights" bull crap. Tired of your "we're better" attitude as well. If you can't talk without degrading and insults, just "don't"...
> Cali is and has been at the forefront of the fight against prohibition. THAT doesn't make them 'right', our 'savior', or a 'model' program. It has certainly caused as much harm as it has 'good' for other states.


 
Thanks Hick, nail meet hammer...


----------



## The New Girl

Herm said:
			
		

> NorCalHal maybe if you didn't constantly come across as a berating ******* people would listen to you. If you are any example of what the cali medical scene is like I am glad you are on the other side of the country from me. I think you also also vastly over estimate peoples resolve if the feds start handing out 60 year prison terms. You dont get a 2nd go round at life and I dont know anyone who wants to sit in a cell for any cause.


 

Ditto


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> I didn't say there was much you could do, save maybe act responsibly as it sounds you are. Maybe encourage responsible actions through positive marketing, discourage irresponsible actions by denouncing the *shifty docs* and dispensaries....


 
This is where you and I differ greatly. IMO, there are no shifty docs.
Shifty dispensaries....yes.

In my State, a Doctor can write a MMJ rec for any reason he/she see's fit.
Again, any reason.

Explain to me why that is a bad thing?

Belive it or not, but some doctors actually smoke weed. Some are true Stoners. They are actually activists as well. They know they have the power to "Free" folks from State LEO. So, some choose to do just that. They will give a rec to anyone over the age of 18, for any reason. There were given this authority by the Voters and passage of Cali's Prop 215. I can quote the exact text if you like.

I think that is the greatest thing ever.

Why do you think we need to restrict who can and cannot have a rec? Shouldn't everyone be protected? Wouldn't you want your fellow Michaganders to have protection, or do you want to pick and choose?

Don't get me wrong, I see plenty of foolish youngsters touting thier card. Those same foolish youngsters will get into trouble on thier own, they don't need weed to be the cause. They too should not go to jail for weed too.


----------



## NorCalHal

The New Girl said:
			
		

> Hal it's always about you being right and the rest of us are wrong. You continually put people down to to make your point. Frankly I see you say the same crap making Cali the all mighty. Other states passed med laws for a reason. Med mj actually works for many, just because you are a stoner and brag how you guys get med cards for even a hangnail is also the same reason other states are having problems getting Med mj laws that are reasonable. You call me clueless, conservative and many other things to feed your ego and only confirm to others your insecurity.
> 
> What my friends do is none of your business in their grows...period. I do know I'm welcome back and they loved some ideas I "shared" with them. I didn't preach to them like you but offered them some ideas for inspection.
> 
> If you go to jail don't drop the soap... well maybe yes for you. I am on a forum stating my view, this is what this is about, not Hal's forum but everyones... conservative, liberal, radical or whatever but stop judging us. I'm done ever talking to you as it's a waste of time, you just see your view always and don't "see" anything else and enjoy putting people down. You gave me a bad rep and called me clueless just because I told a brand new person he had a good first post. I was trying to make him feel welcome but big bad Hal had to straighten that out. If your ego gets any bigger you'll have to move to another planet.
> 
> Go ahead and slam me all you want now because you're dead in my book... and I'm sure MANY here share my view.


 

Easy way out of a debate. Everytime a Cali newsposts comes up, you gotta chime in and slam my State.


----------



## NorCalHal

The New Girl said:
			
		

> Let's call a spade a spade. Cali is no role model for med mj. They have abused it to death. I was out there two weeks ago and the 2nd disp I went into let me buy. The next day I went to a Cali doc and I now how a valid Cali med card, with no id or proof of living there. It is a sham there, let's face it... and it's such a joke I can see why it pees off the Feds. The doc I saw was a quack from a soap opera. His last statement was "Now young lady, marijuana is not a cure all."  YES SIR! You can't defend stupid, well except some folks in northern Cali - which I did get to visit BTW, saw some grows and a trim session... I do have a connection there Hal... and I'm certainly not clueless as you might want to believe.


 
I had to go back and see where this thread went wrong, and here is the post.

Look for yourselves man, it was all good until she has to post this up and attacks me...again.

Why ruin an otherwise great thread.? We understand honey, you don't like Cali but it was cool to get a card while you were here and then post up what a joke it was. MAybe if folks didn't abuse the system like you did we wouldn't have the problem in the first place. Now that's funny. I love irony.

Thanks though for adding to my States coffers.

So please, stop making personal attacks and contribute intelligently to the conversation.


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> This is where you and I differ greatly. IMO, there are no shifty docs.
> Shifty dispensaries....yes.
> 
> In my State, a Doctor can write a MMJ rec for any reason he/she see's fit.
> Again, any reason.
> 
> Explain to me why that is a bad thing?
> 
> Belive it or not, but some doctors actually smoke weed. Some are true Stoners. They are actually activists as well. They know they have the power to "Free" folks from State LEO. So, some choose to do just that. They will give a rec to anyone over the age of 18, for any reason. There were given this authority by the Voters and passage of Cali's Prop 215. I can quote the exact text if you like.
> 
> I think that is the greatest thing ever.
> 
> Why do you think we need to restrict who can and cannot have a rec? Shouldn't everyone be protected? Wouldn't you want your fellow Michaganders to have protection, or do you want to pick and choose?
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I see plenty of foolish youngsters touting thier card. Those same foolish youngsters will get into trouble on thier own, they don't need weed to be the cause. They too should not go to jail for weed too.



Hal, these aren't my words. What makes you think *"I"* want this restriction, Hal? Do you not understand what I am saying? And Hal, it's a MEDICAL PRESCRIPTION, should there not at least be a reason for the prescription, or do you feel it should be OK for morphine and OXY to be freely handed out as well?


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> I had to go back and see where this thread went wrong, and here is the post.
> 
> *Look for yourselves man, it was all good until she has to post this up and attacks me...again.*
> 
> Why ruin an otherwise great thread.? We understand honey, you don't like Cali but it was cool to get a card while you were here and then post up what a joke it was. MAybe if folks didn't abuse the system like you did we wouldn't have the problem in the first place. Now that's funny. I love irony.
> 
> Thanks though for adding to my States coffers.
> 
> So please, stop making personal attacks and contribute intelligently to the conversation.



I'm a bit stoned after the Lions MNF game, but can you point out where she attacks you?


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> Hal, these aren't my words. What makes you think *"I"* want this restriction, Hal? Do you not understand what I am saying? And Hal, it's a MEDICAL PRESCRIPTION, should there not at least be a reason for the prescription, or do you feel it should be OK for morphine and OXY to be freely handed out as well?


 

I too am pretty stoned bro...lol

Maybe that is where we differ man, we do not have "Medical Prescriptions", we have Medical Recomendations. 
Lets not compare herb to Oxy man.....

Basically ya, I think it is cool for a Doctor to say "Hey, Thre is nothing wrong with smoking herb, so ya, any reason is a good reason.

I know it ain't legal man, but this is the closest thing we are going to get for a long time.



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> I'm a bit stoned after the Lions MNF game, but can you point out where she attacks you?


 
cmon meow, she stabs me in her last line, basically stating that the doctor set up was stupid and I defend it, least that's what I took out of it.


----------



## Roddy

But Hal, this is what the doctors are supposed to be prescribing MMJ for, instead of the oxy and morphine. It's to relieve pain, and that's what those are prescribed for...right?

Of course, it's also good for certain mental conditions which are fought with much stronger drugs yet....and MMJ is helping instead. Truly, there's several uses that a dr operating properly could easily discuss with and verify before just handing the prescription out.

Recommendation...prescription...one and same in my opinion.

And no, I don't see that as a personal attack...


----------



## NorCalHal

Man, so close but so far away we are.

Yes, I understand completley that MMJ does help folks with serious issues that allow them to stop taking heavier drugs. That is a great thing.

But I believe, as well as many doctors and citizens, that MJ itself is harmless and should be legal.

So, with that said, Doctors that believe in legalization freely hand out recs to anyone for any reason. So, not only does the Seriously sick person get to smoke herb, everyone ELSE over the age of 18 gets to also.

How can this be bad to a fellow stoner/grower? Help me understand.

All I get is that because we seem" loose" to other States, we are the ones out of control and need to change.

I on the other hand think you all need to catch up.

What this thread was about was The Feds coming in and beating up the movement again. It has nothing to do with who is running legit and who isn't, it's just the fact that it is still Illegal under Federal law. 

They hate us for freeing the herb, plain and simple. It is so common place that visitors from other States are coming here for Stoner Vactions, touring Grow sights and getting Doctor Recs allowing them to freely purchase and consume MJ. The new Amsterdam.

Of course they have to do something in fear other states might follow.


----------



## orangesunshine

*roddy*---recommendations are made by doc's here for many more ailments than those related to relentless pain---stress, insomnia, menstration, etc...to name a few---kinda funny that you from another state jumped from medical marijuana to morphine---that was an interesting leap---watch out for big farma man---this whole thing needs to get cut loose on our terms---


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Man, so close but so far away we are.
> 
> Yes, I understand completley that MMJ does help folks with serious issues that allow them to stop taking heavier drugs. That is a great thing.
> 
> But I believe, as well as many doctors and citizens, that MJ itself is harmless and should be legal.
> 
> So, with that said, Doctors that believe in legalization freely hand out recs to anyone for any reason. So, not only does the Seriously sick person get to smoke herb, everyone ELSE over the age of 18 gets to also.
> 
> How can this be bad to a fellow stoner/grower? Help me understand.
> 
> All I get is that because we seem" loose" to other States, we are the ones out of control and need to change.
> 
> I on the other hand think you all need to catch up.
> 
> What this thread was about was The Feds coming in and beating up the movement again. It has nothing to do with who is running legit and who isn't, it's just the fact that it is still Illegal under Federal law.
> 
> They hate us for freeing the herb, plain and simple. It is so common place that visitors from other States are coming here for Stoner Vactions, touring Grow sights and getting Doctor Recs allowing them to freely purchase and consume MJ. The new Amsterdam.
> 
> Of course they have to do something in fear other states might follow.




Hal, because to do so is ILLEGAL. MJ is not legal for recreational use, only MEDICAL.


----------



## Roddy

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> *roddy*---recommendations are made by doc's here for many more ailments than those related to relentless pain---stress, insomnia, menstration, etc...to name a few---kinda funny that you from another state jumped from medical marijuana to morphine---that was an interesting leap---watch out for big farma man---this whole thing needs to get cut loose on our terms---



I see absolutely no leap. I also realize MMJ is prescribed for more than serious pain, and understand it replaces the prescriptions given for these problems as well...IE, it's prescribed. I think most of can agree (as Hal already has twice lol) that this system is being abused.


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Man, so close but so far away we are.
> 
> Yes, I understand completley that MMJ does help folks with serious issues that allow them to stop taking heavier drugs. That is a great thing.
> 
> But I believe, as well as many doctors and citizens, that MJ itself is harmless and should be legal.
> 
> So, with that said, Doctors that believe in legalization freely hand out recs to anyone for any reason. So, not only does the Seriously sick person get to smoke herb, everyone ELSE over the age of 18 gets to also.
> 
> How can this be bad to a fellow stoner/grower? Help me understand.
> 
> All I get is that because we seem" loose" to other States, we are the ones out of control and need to change.
> 
> I on the other hand think you all need to catch up.
> 
> What this thread was about was The Feds coming in and beating up the movement again. It has nothing to do with who is running legit and who isn't, it's just the fact that it is still Illegal under Federal law.
> 
> *They hate us for freeing the herb, plain and simple. It is so common place that visitors from other States are coming here for Stoner Vactions, touring Grow sights and getting Doctor Recs allowing them to freely purchase and consume MJ. The new Amsterdam.*
> 
> Of course they have to do something in fear other states might follow.



And I believe here is the problem. You blast New Girl for saying this happens, you tell us the dr's don't abuse the system, then you boast that people are making Cali a vacation destination merely for the smoke. You say the dispensaries aren't breaking the laws, yet it's been reported both on the news, in news articles and here that dispensaries are very loose with who gets to buy.

And yet, you feel you're following the laws and this govt crackdown is merely political...ouch!

Hal, surely you see the dr's are abusing the system at the very least by handing out cards to out-of-state visitors...even if not any other way, don't you?


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> Hal, because to do so is ILLEGAL. MJ is not legal for recreational use, only MEDICAL.


 

You just don't get it man.

It is not Illegal for a Cali doc to rec MMJ to anyone for any reason, how is it Illegal, maybe in your State, but not mine. How do you not understand this??

Dr's are not abusing the system bro, thry are usuing the system to the movements advantage. If they were doing it Illegally, WHY DOESN'T THE STATE SHUT THEM DOWN?

'Cause it ain't Illegal State wise, only Federal.

What if you could only get a Rec from a Chrioprator, would that make you feel better?


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> Hal, surely you see the dr's are abusing the system at the very least by handing out cards to out-of-state visitors...even if not any other way, don't you?


 

No. Heck no. 

I am baffled at how you are against people getting State legal to smoke and cultivate on a Marijuana Forum, for any reason. You must not be a lifelong stoner is my guess. I think I read on some post that you just started smokin' when MI allowed MMJ, correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Locked

NCH you are wasting your time....it is pretty clear that Roddy is a government sheep. You hit the nail on the head though about him not being for the legalization movement. He cldnt possibly be with the Dog Farts he keeps spewing.


----------



## Roddy

No truly Hammy, you have lost all my respect. I'll waste no time ever commenting on you again, have fun with your govt theory. Btw, I think people will lose respect for you if you keep pushing this crap govt talk, worked on me!


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy, don't split now! We are getting close!

After reading the dang pot candy thread it is obvious you are a rule player, not a rule breaker. There is nothing wrong with that at all.

Please look back at my last post, I am curious, if you would so induldge me.
It would make sense if you just started since the "MMJ" movement. Perfect sense.
It sure isn't a bad thing man, it is a good thing, and I am not tryin' to be mean at all.

It just seems to me that a lifelong stoner would be more apt to side with Doctors Rec'ing anyone they see fit.


----------



## Roddy

Um Hal, done a 6 mo and 3 mo bit for pot........


----------



## NorCalHal

Got that one wrong. Owe you a Pepsi.

So that's trippy to me, that you wouldn't be cool with Doctors givin' recs to everyone. You of all people should want anyone protected from jail, i would think.


----------



## Roddy

Hal, for this to work, we have to give a semblance of following the law. The law is this is a medical treatment, not a recreational drug. Dr's handing them out to anyone and everyone does nothing to better our view in the public (or fed) eyes.

If it were up to me, it would be flat out legal....but it's not.

As for the candy thread, I was having a good time until Hammy kept insisting on yelling govt. Was actually a fun thread right up until that.


----------



## ston-loc

Roddy, Ibuprofin is taken for medical purposes when you have a headache and such. I wake up and feel like crap, and achey, take a rip, feel better. Isnt that for medical purposes? Just saying man. Take it for what it is. And most CA dr's and dispensaries are functioning under the state law under interpretation. Interpret it differently and we all have a difference of opinions. I think we ALL believe it should be legal, but it aint. Though talks like these seem to be dividing supporters more than uniting them. I dunno. My .02


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> Dr's handing them out to anyone and everyone does nothing to better our view in the public (or fed) eyes.


 
That is your opinion for sure my friends, not the Publics. I am pretty sure there are lots of folks in other states thinking thats pretty cool. Has to be, they are all moving here...lol.

We just have to agree to disagree. 

Bottom line my friend, they are not messing with other States, there are in Cali, and So-Cal specifically. Just like they did in Nor Cal a few years ago and came in busted a few folks, it killed off the weak and uncommitted and left strong Dispensaries that have been operating for years.


----------



## Roddy

Of course they're all moving there, my friend, everyone knows how simple it is to get past the dr part, and you guys can grow unbelievable amounts of plants (99 per patient, was it). I mean, would you move to MI where there's no jobs and no future? :rofl: :rofl: No, seriously....got any room out that way? 

One thing to remember, we have to win over non-smokers, not just the smokers which, btw, we already have. And truly, you have no way to know what the public opinion is, and it may surprise you what the public truly thinks....outside Cali.


----------



## Locked

Roddy said:
			
		

> No truly Hammy, you have lost all my respect. I'll waste no time ever commenting on you again, have fun with your govt theory. Btw, I think people will lose respect for you if you keep pushing this crap govt talk, worked on me!




My government theory? Lol.....is that what wanting my rights protected is called. Bro I have watched you argue yourself in circles in various threads for a while now.....you always seem to argue just to argue and can never ever admit you are wrong. I know your type well......and that's fine. You be you I will be me.  All I know is just because the Feds say MJ is illegal and evil and what not doesn't make it so....and for all those doctors out in Cali giving out recs to any adult that wants one....Bravo. I am for legalization period....not MMJ without full on legalization for any adult. If that's where we are now in a few states then that's great...but I am not gonna become a shill for the man and bash Cali, and the doctors that hand out the recs. 

Sorry if you lost respect for me but to be honest I didn't ask for it to begin with....and seeing the way you bash the people out on the front lines doing battle for all of us I don't need it. Yeah there are people who will abuse the system for their own gain and that will sadly always be true...but believe it or not some of them are doing it because they believe MJ shld be legalized.


----------



## Roddy

ston-loc said:
			
		

> Roddy, Ibuprofin is taken for medical purposes when you have a headache and such. I wake up and feel like crap, and achey, take a rip, feel better. Isnt that for medical purposes? Just saying man. Take it for what it is. And most CA dr's and dispensaries are functioning under the state law under interpretation. Interpret it differently and we all have a difference of opinions. I think we ALL believe it should be legal, but it aint. Though talks like these seem to be dividing supporters more than uniting them. I dunno. My .02



The law states debilitating pain.


----------



## pcduck

> The law states debilitating pain.



What is debilitating pain to you?


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> That is your opinion for sure my friends, not the Publics. I am pretty sure there are lots of folks in other states thinking thats pretty cool. Has to be, they are all moving here...lol.
> 
> We just have to agree to disagree.
> 
> Bottom line my friend, they are not messing with other States, there are in Cali, and So-Cal specifically. Just like they did in Nor Cal a few years ago and came in busted a few folks, it killed off the weak and uncommitted and left strong Dispensaries that have been operating for years.




You are right though, my friend, we will have to agree to disagree. At the end of it all, I know many out there are following the laws and applaud those who are fighting the good fight...as I always have. One thing I note, while we can disagree to no end, I'm certain you'd have my back in a pinch just as I'd have yours, we're not that different.


----------



## Roddy

pcduck said:
			
		

> What is debilitating pain to you?



Something you'd see a normal doctor for more than one time, something chronic and you have a history of. 

I'll put it to you like this, I didn't bother to try for my prescription for the first two years because I didn't think my dr would consider me eligible. I have chronic back pain due to a car accident, my dr's want to do surgery and I won't let them....maybe when I can no longer walk and have nothing to lose lol


----------



## Roddy

ston-loc said:
			
		

> Roddy, Ibuprofin is taken for medical purposes when you have a headache and such. I wake up and feel like crap, and achey, take a rip, feel better. Isnt that for medical purposes? Just saying man. Take it for what it is. And most CA dr's and dispensaries are functioning under the state law under interpretation. Interpret it differently and we all have a difference of opinions. I think we ALL believe it should be legal, but it aint.* Though talks like these seem to be dividing supporters more than uniting them.* I dunno. My .02



Nah, I think it broadens and enlightens us. 

Hal, I don't remember, what are the state laws for dispensaries?


----------



## pcduck

Roddy said:
			
		

> Something you'd see a normal doctor for more than one time, something chronic and you have a history of.



So now if someone new would move to MI they would need to see a doctor numerous time to get a mj rec but can go one time and get xanex.:holysheep: 

That is messed up thinking.


----------



## Roddy

pcduck said:
			
		

> So now if someone new would move to MI they would need to see a doctor numerous time to get a mj rec but can go one time and get xanex.:holysheep:
> 
> That is messed up thinking.



I would assume you'd have seen a  dr well before moving to MI, right? Transfer of records.....

It is messed up thinking, until logic is applied 

For instance, I can move to Las Vegas and have my card that same day. I've already talked to local dr's there, transfer of records takes minutes.


----------



## pcduck

Yeah I seen a doc years ago prescribed. xanex. Did not like the side effects or possible side effects. But they sure will give it to ya. I just feel more comfortable with mj's side effects.

Maybe these drs that are handing out these recs see mj as a harmless drug(which it is but that is a whole other matter.) And who has the right to deny them an income.You call them sleazy but just maybe they have bills just like you. Beside the main point the people should have the right to do as they wish as long as it does not harm others. I do not see where mj is harming others, the drs giving out recs are not harming others, so where is the harm in making a living and having the right to do as you wish?


----------



## getnasty

pcduck said:
			
		

> Yeah I seen a doc years ago prescribed. xanex. Did not like the side effects or possible side effects. But they sure will give it to ya. I just feel more comfortable with mj's side effects.
> 
> Maybe these drs that are handing out these recs see mj as a harmless drug(which it is but that is a whole other matter.) And who has the right to deny them an income.You call them sleazy but just maybe they have bills just like you. Beside the main point the people should have the right to do as they wish as long as it does not harm others. I do not see where mj is harming others, the drs giving out recs are not harming others, so where is the harm in making a living and having the right to do as you wish?


I have a large body frame and am overweight... pills just simply don't work the same as marijuana. I believe it's in the way that it metabolizes. I have to take larger quantities of the pills than what's considered standard for most people. A little bit of MJ goes a long way in that regard, not to mention it doesn't have the side effects and physical withdrawals over extended use that most the pills do.

-nasty


----------



## Roddy

pcduck said:
			
		

> Yeah I seen a doc years ago prescribed. xanex. Did not like the side effects or possible side effects. But they sure will give it to ya. I just feel more comfortable with mj's side effects.
> 
> Maybe these drs that are handing out these recs see mj as a harmless drug(which it is but that is a whole other matter.) And who has the right to deny them an income.You call them sleazy but just maybe they have bills just like you. Beside the main point the people should have the right to do as they wish as long as it does not harm others. I do not see where mj is harming others, the drs giving out recs are not harming others, so where is the harm in making a living and having the right to do as you wish?




*Maybe these drs that are handing out these recs see mj as a harmless drug(which it is but that is a whole other matter.)* 

Maybe they do, but it's really not their call, it's the govt's. 

*And who has the right to deny them an income.*

Answer here is govt again.

*You call them sleazy but just maybe they have bills just like you.*

If the dr's can't cover their bills, it's ok to break the laws??

*Beside the main point the people should have the right to do as they wish as long as it does not harm others.*

Key words here is "SHOULD HAVE".

*I do not see where mj is harming others, the drs giving out recs are not harming others, so where is the harm in making a living and having the right to do as you wish?*

Ask the local govt why they're speaking out.


----------



## Roddy

getnasty said:
			
		

> I have a large body frame and am overweight... pills just simply don't work the same as marijuana. I believe it's in the way that it metabolizes. I have to take larger quantities of the pills than what's considered standard for most people. A little bit of MJ goes a long way in that regard, not to mention it doesn't have the side effects and physical withdrawals over extended use that most the pills do.
> 
> -nasty



MMJ is a wonderful thing, no doubt about it!


----------



## pcduck

Roddy said:
			
		

> *Maybe these drs that are handing out these recs see mj as a harmless drug(which it is but that is a whole other matter.)*
> 
> Maybe they do, but it's really not their call, it's the govt's.
> 
> *And who has the right to deny them an income.*
> 
> Answer here is govt again.
> 
> *You call them sleazy but just maybe they have bills just like you.*
> 
> If the dr's can't cover their bills, it's ok to break the laws??
> 
> *Beside the main point the people should have the right to do as they wish as long as it does not harm others.*
> 
> Key words here is "SHOULD HAVE".
> 
> *I do not see where mj is harming others, the drs giving out recs are not harming others, so where is the harm in making a living and having the right to do as you wish?*
> 
> Ask the local govt why they're speaking out.



Your answers just so how naive you are. and how many times must you be told that these drs are following the law that is why the local/state government is not arresting them. Maybe someday you will understand but it is gonna take you awhile.


----------



## Roddy

Amazingly, I'm not the only one seeing the dr's abusing the system. Some right here in this forum agree, many in the local govt in Cali agree. 

Law stated debilitating pain, I'm guessing, just like here in MI, that there's a TON that don't qualify, and yet have a card. But that's not because the dr's are abusing the laws, therefore breaking them?

Please, I'm just a bit naive here, maybe you can enlighten me.


----------



## pcduck

> Please, I'm just a bit naive here, maybe you can enlighten me.



How are drs abusing the system? They are not getting arrested.

It is not worth it, we have all tried. All you do is run around in circles with your answers.


----------



## Rosebud

Roddy, honey, why do you care if the doc's are abusing the law? what is it that bothers you so much about people getting MM that may not have a "legitimate" complaint? tell me please, i want to know.


----------



## Roddy

Rosebud said:
			
		

> Roddy, honey, why do you care if the doc's are abusing the law? what is it that bothers you so much about people getting MM that may not have a "legitimate" complaint? tell me please, i want to know.



The dr's abusing the system is causing for discussion all over about how to curtail such actions, the actions in California are once again trickling down to the rest of us. As I have said, for this to work, for us to be able to make the leap from medical to all out legalization, we need to show we can obey the laws we ourselves approved.

Kids running around with a script just so they aren't being arrested, that just won't fly in the eyes of those who are already irked and are watching. I'd love that MJ were legalized, but it's not....yet. And pc keeps saying the dr's aren't being arrested...yet. Although, I have seen reports of dr's getting busted.


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> Although, I have seen reports of dr's getting busted.


 
Show me one Cali Doc that has had thier license revoked due to reci'n weed. Good Luck


*


			
				Roddy said:
			
		


			Maybe these drs that are handing out these recs see mj as a harmless drug(which it is but that is a whole other matter.)
		
Click to expand...

*


			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Maybe they do, but it's really not their call, it's the govt's


 
*Absolutly wrong man*. No arguing here at all. It is the DOCTORS choice, plain and simple. How the heck can you even say it's the gov't choice of you gets MMJ...that's laughable, and I'm laughing.
Obviously you have NO understanding of Cali law, and why would you, you live in MI.


The "dehibilitating pain" may be in MI law books, but not mine, and this thread is about the Feds coming to Cali, not MI. Cali law STATES "Any other illness a Doctor see's fit". In the books, part of Prop 215, it was written in for a reason, to make you and others mad I guess....lol


----------



## orangesunshine

i'm mad cause i have to re-new my rec every year---what's that all about---my ailment will never be cured   :rofl:


----------



## Rosebud

I come with a biased opinion. I loved my MM doctors. Each one of them. I have said it before, they were ambassadors of cannabis. I have not been to a "pain" doc since I saw these guys. Truth being I would probably smoke it anyway, i know i would as my kids are grown and gone but I would be paranoid and still taking hydros. My first doc was in his 80s, a cardiac surgeon. He has made his money, he isn't doing it for that. He believes in marijuana.


----------



## Rosebud

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> i'm mad cause i have to re-new my rec every year---what's that all about---my ailment will never be cured   :rofl:



I hate that fee too. Awe orange, are you kinda glad you have an ailment?


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> Kids running around with a script just so they aren't being arrested, that just won't fly in the eyes of those who are already irked and are watching. I'd love that MJ were legalized, but it's not....yet. And pc keeps saying the dr's aren't being arrested...yet. Although, I have seen reports of dr's getting busted.


 
Kids do not get to have a MMJ Rec, must be 18 and older, is that not old enough in your eyes?

They can go die for our Country, but can't get a MMJ rec cause they are "kids". Cmon meow.

Before you comment again on Cali law, you should first read it and understand it.

Your comments about local goverments not backing MMJ is again....WRONG.

Sure, some local gov are against MMJ, but an equal amount is all for it.
It is not my fault you choose to believe all the stories on Foxnews. again, they do not show stories of positives with MMJ and local goverments.

So please, stop "snapshotting" my state and thinking all goverment officials are against it. Do some homework before you make falsestatements.....again.


----------



## orangesunshine

:ciao: *Rosebud*---you got that right---never felt so happy to be sick since grade school---:rofl:---was in total panic mode when i went for my first rec---had 10 plus years of medical history in a folder bulging with documents to show the Doc that i was a great candidate for the herb


----------



## getnasty

The only thing I don't like, on the state side of this matter, is that the rules aren't being followed. Yes, under state law, they are. But the ultimate goal of the medical marijuana movement, is to get the drug to the people who NEED it for their comfort of living and to gain an edge into legalizing it completely, from border to border, right?

In doing so, we don't need to be aimed at impressing our individual state governments. We need to be aimed at impressing federal authorities with actions of responsibility and order.

Handing recommendations out to anybody under the sun isn't going to do that. Yes, that is what your laws are designed to do. You were given loopholes (ie, doc can prescribe to any person over the age of 18 for *any* reason) to take advantage of, while other states were not. My state can't even get it on the ballot... the government here refuses to put it on. So now we have to go through the people, and prove to our government that our people want it on the ballot, with figures of 73% of our states voting populous being FOR medical marijuana "for those in need." This is what the proposition accounts for:



> ...including but not limited to:
> 
> &#8226; Multiple Congenital Cartilaginous Exostosis
> &#8226; Glaucoma
> &#8226; Multiple Sclerosis
> &#8226; Nail-patella Syndrome
> &#8226; Human Immunodeficiency Virus (HIV) and Acquired Immune Deficiency Syndrome (AIDS).
> 
> 
> Added to the Amendment are:
> 
> &#8226; Any terminal patient or person with a terminal condition
> &#8226; Agitation of Alzheimer's Disease
> &#8226; Amyotrophic Lateral Sclerosis
> &#8226; Cancer
> &#8226; Celiac Disease
> &#8226; Crohns Disease
> &#8226; Hepatitis C
> &#8226; Mylomalacia
> &#8226; Post Traumatic Stress (PTSD)
> &#8226; Sickle Cell Anemia
> &#8226; Rheumatoid arthritis
> &#8226; Injury or disease to the spinal cord, spinal column, or vertebra; or the treatment of these conditions.
> &#8226; Those suffering from a "Debilitating medical condition."
> 
> "Debilitating medical condition" means one or more of the following: All federally approved medical conditions for the use of medical cannabis covered under the federal Compassionate Investigational New Drug program, including but not limited to: cachexia or wasting syndrome; *severe or chronic pain;* severe or chronic nausea; seizures, including those characteristic of epilepsy; and *severe or persistent muscle spasms.*


Fortunately, for me, I am elligible under the boldened text, but my friends are not. But, this is how I define MEDICAL marijuana. Not by my state's definition or your state's (because I believe that's exactly where you're going to go with it has you have several times in this thread), I know. Medical Marijuana carries the cannotation that the drug will be used medicinally as a supressant of pain, or other ailments. Medicinally. Meaning NOT everyone in the state that is of age can walk into a clinic and pick up a script. I understand your state allows for it through those loopholes I mentioned earlier, but you aren't truly a medical marijuana state. You're a legalized marijuana state under the guise of medical recommendation, so you can get by with it legally. It's a ploy to a means to an end. But atleast the people who truly need it are getting it now.

Having said this, I'm all for legalizing marijuana as I've said before! I just think it has to be done a certain way in order for it to be done successfully. We've had a prohitbition on marijuana for 90-100 years. The federal government is familiar with it and will continue to uphold that prohibition until the law changes, whether they're upholding federal law in California or doing it in Rhode Island. Federal law trumps state law.


-nasty


----------



## orangesunshine

with all due respect---this ain't about MEDICAL MARIJUANA---and who qualifies for a perscription or who is acting within the state laws---it's about LEGALIZING THE WHOLE ENCHILADA


----------



## getnasty

Disagree with ya Orange. There are people out there, believe it or not, that only smoke it because it is legal and it works. They follow the governments rules to a T. Myself, personally... I smoke it illegally because it works. ultimately, I care more about my own well being than I do about a government who thinks they're looking out for my well being. I do, though, think legalizing the whole enchilada, as you put it, is one of our ultimate goals with medical marijuana, though.


-nasty


----------



## orangesunshine

getnasty said:
			
		

> There are people out there, believe it or not, that only smoke it because it is legal and it works. They follow the governments rules to a T.
> 
> 
> true---as i am living proof---as in any enterprise there are some that follow the rules and others that don't---it will be legalized here in CA and if the people don't take a stand now---guess who's taking over the show---that would be the govt. that cares sooo much about it's people and BIG FARMA making all the dough


----------



## Hick

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> with all due respect---this ain't about MEDICAL MARIJUANA---and who qualifies for a perscription or who is acting within the state laws---it's about LEGALIZING THE WHOLE ENCHILADA



If it isn't about mmj... *then don't call it mmj...* THIS is where the 'black eye' is perceived by many, the 'fence sitters', those we _"need"_ on our side. 
you can put lipstick on a pig but you know what?.. it's still going to stink up the dining room at family dinners... 
 you can blow your horns all you like, my state is using your state, as a model of what NOT to follow.


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Kids do not get to have a MMJ Rec, must be 18 and older, is that not old enough in your eyes?
> 
> They can go die for our Country, but can't get a MMJ rec cause they are "kids". Cmon meow.
> 
> Before you comment again on Cali law, you should first read it and understand it.
> 
> Your comments about local goverments not backing MMJ is again....WRONG.
> 
> Sure, some local gov are against MMJ, but an equal amount is all for it.
> It is not my fault you choose to believe all the stories on Foxnews. again, they do not show stories of positives with MMJ and local goverments.
> 
> So please, stop "snapshotting" my state and thinking all goverment officials are against it. Do some homework before you make falsestatements.....again.




Hal, 18 is still a kid in my eye, and unless they've got some serious ailment or were in some serious accident causing serious injury, how can you justify them needing something like MMJ?  Sure, can die for our country, can they go to the bar and drink? Not in my state, not sure how loose your state is on that. 

Funny, only the ones AGAINST MMJ are the ones garnering the attention. And some I noted were for are now standing up on TV and speaking against....just saying it as I see it. And I don't care how you belittle me for watching the news, but tell me, how do you suppose the rest of the USA find out their info, make their decisions...the NEWS??? I bet that's a good share, my friend. All about perception, but then, I've said that a dozen or so times lol

If all this upsets you Hal, do something about it. If you're a big wig at some dispensary, why not put up some of those big bucks you pay yourselves and start a positive campaign, maybe host some MMJ fairs with REAL doctors who can inform the public. Maybe take out some TV ads promoting MMJ positively. If all this worries you, that is....because, Fox, MSNBC and all the other channels are surely running a negative campaign whether you like it or not.


----------



## Roddy

Hick said:
			
		

> If it isn't about mmj... *then don't call it mmj...* THIS is where the 'black eye' is perceived by many, the 'fence sitters', those we _"need"_ on our side.
> you can put lipstick on a pig but you know what?.. it's still going to stink up the dining room at family dinners...
> you can blow your horns all you like, my state is using your state, as a model of what NOT to follow.



And that is the absolute truth. THANKS Hick! On the other hand, many are now watching CO, which seems to have a better grasp on the situation!


----------



## The New Girl

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Show me one Cali Doc that has had thier license revoked due to reci'n weed. Good Luck


 
hxxp://www.mcsocal.com/blog/medical-marijuana-doctor-arrested-dispensary-raided-in-whittier

*Medical Marijuana Doctor Arrested; Dispensary Raided in Whittier*


May 21, 2011No CommentsMedical Marijuana Law Affordable Evaluations, best price evaluations, California Medical Board, Dr. Arun Sherma, Medical Marijuana, whittier, www.affordableevaluations.com, www.bestpriceevaluations.com 
Police, under the direction of the California State Medical Board, arrested a Los Angeles doctor for aiding and abetting an illegal medical clinic in the city of Whittier, CA.  The clinics, who advertise under the names &#8220;Best Priced Evaluations&#8221; and &#8220;Affordable Evaluations&#8221;  charged patients $25 to receive a medical marijuana recommendation from a licensed physician.
Here is the link to the article in the Whittier times:  READ ON&#8230;.
hxxp://www.whittierdailynews.com/news/ci_18101391hxxp://www.whittierdailynews.comThis
The reason the medical board is cracking down on doctors is because dispensary owners have been opening up &#8220;feeder clinics&#8221; adjacent to their dispensaries and hiring doctors to write cheap recommendations to drive patients back to their dispensary.   Typically they charge next to nothing for the recommendation knowing that the patient is going to spend that money at their dispensary anyway.
Here is the problem.  Only DOCTORS can own and operate medical clinics.  It is a crime for a layman to operate these offices.   Any doctor that is working for them can be arrested and charged with aiding and abetting an illegal medical practice.
The second issue that the medical board is targeting is the selling of &#8220;Cultivation Licenses&#8221;.   Lately, clinics have been advertising cultivator licenses for $250.00   They tell patients that they can now legally grow up to 99 plants with a doctors approval.    Unfortunately for patients, there is no such thing.   Patients have the right to grow medicine with a recommendation alone.  They do not need a special growers license.   More importantly, patients that grow 99 plants thinking that they are immune from prosecution are going to get a rude awakening when they are arrested and charged with intent to sell marijuana.
I strongly advice any patient that wants to grow more than 12 plants to get sound legal counsel.   Spending a few hours with an attorney first will save you thousands of dollars down the road.
Here is the bottom line for patients:  As tempting as it is to go to one of these clinics, pay the $25 and hope that your recommendation is going to be legit, I strongly advice against it.   Most of them are not physician owned, are illegally colluding with dispensaries and your recommendation is not going to be valid once they are arrested and shut down.  You are simply wasting your time and money.   More importantly you are supporting people who are knowingly breaking the law.


----------



## NorCalHal

Srry honey...He was busted for running a unlicended clinic....not for handing our Rec's.....keep googleing.


----------



## NorCalHal

Hick said:
			
		

> If it isn't about mmj... *then don't call it mmj...* THIS is where the 'black eye' is perceived by many, the 'fence sitters', those we _"need"_ on our side.
> you can put lipstick on a pig but you know what?.. it's still going to stink up the dining room at family dinners...
> you can blow your horns all you like, my state is using your state, as a model of what NOT to follow.


 
Noone ever asked for other States to follow Cali, at all.

It all goes to what each individual thinks that "MMJ" should be, we just have different views on what that is.

You boys keep up the good work and make your State "An example" of what MMJ should be


----------



## Roddy

As if we have a choice but to watch what happens in Cali, the first to pass and what everyone uses to judge how MMJ is working. You should face the fact that all eyes are on you, whether you know it, like it or not.


----------



## NorCalHal

Roddy said:
			
		

> As if we have a choice but to watch what happens in Cali, the first to pass and what everyone uses to judge how MMJ is working.


 
Oh ya, that's right..We did coin the term MMJ didn't we? Now you all want to change the definition of a term my State brought to light.
Good Times.


----------



## NorCalHal

Believe Roddy, I know we are being watched, and we are going to do what we allways do, push the limits. I also love that we are being watched....take notes fellas.

While other States sit back and fued over what we are doing wrong, we are ever changing. We will not wait for the Gov't to give us thier OK, because we would STILL BE WAITING. We are demanding our right to toke up, plain and simple. We will use every tool in the arsenal to do so.

So,instead of kissing butt and making happy happy vibes hoping the gov't changes thier mind, we will rock this out. We have been waiting for the Feds to change since da 1930's, what makes you think they will change now?

It's not going to happen bro. We have to make them change.


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Oh ya, that's right..We did coin the term MMJ didn't we? Now you all want to change the definition of a term my State brought to light.
> Good Times.



If by "you all" you mean govt, then you have this right!


----------



## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Believe Roddy, I know we are being watched, and we are going to do what we allways do, push the limits. I also love that we are being watched....take notes fellas.
> 
> While other States sit back and fued over what we are doing wrong, we are ever changing. We will not wait for the Gov't to give us thier OK, because we would STILL BE WAITING. We are demanding our right to toke up, plain and simple. We will use every tool in the arsenal to do so.
> 
> So,instead of kissing butt and making happy happy vibes hoping the gov't changes thier mind, we will rock this out. We have been waiting for the Feds to change since da 1930's, what makes you think they will change now?
> 
> It's not going to happen bro. We have to make them change.



Then why hide behind the guise of legality? If you're such mavericks, do it like it is and not be bandits. Using MMJ as a guise like this only hurts all the other states trying to follow.

As for it happening, how many states now have MMJ? how many more are looking into it? It's happening.....


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## orangesunshine

please forgive me for kicking the dog just one more time---i'll type slow so i might be a little clearer on my opinion on where i think we are at in CA---it's great that other states are using or not using CA as a role model for what to do and what not to do in their state---frankly, don't much care---just awesome it is being considered---all states have their take on their laws---no 2 states laws are identical in any area---basic in principle but really very different in the finer points---i don't think it is fair for anyone outside CA to use us as a scapegoat for their own inadequate  politicians/people in making progress for their medical marijuana---yes, we do still call it medical marijuana here in CA---but the big picture is full blown legalization---we don't care if doctors are giving rec's to anyone who can pay their fee---the more the merrier---not gonna open the can of worms on the morality of 18 yr olds smoking or drinking---some do and some don't---had no idea there were so many right wing stoners here---:giggle:---calling it medical marijuana is just a stepping stone---in CA we are more concerned with big farma and big brother taking over the show---gonna be a long time before it is ever accepted on a federal level because if they are not controlling it---it's gonna remain illegal---if you might compare it to bootlegging booze---it's all about controlling the flow of the $$$---NOT what is best for the people---


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## The New Girl

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Srry honey...He was busted for running a unlicended clinic....not for handing our Rec's.....keep googleing.



Then Hal pm's me and say's I see you lurking, got nothing to say?
Here ya go Hal...

Read the article, it's been cracked down for that loophole yes, but done because he's handing tons of med cards out for cheap money and they used that loophole to bust him. The bottom line is that he has been handing out recommendations to anyone with cash and that got them busted.

You google this you arrogant condescending azz. I think I speak for a few that are tired of you. You never answered a post in this thread that asked how I attacked you. I didn't but I'll make it clear here.

 You think your right about everything and that all should take you as the spoken word of Cali. I would bet Cali would send you anywhere to shut you up. You put people down, destroy their viewpoints and then say sorry I didn't mean to upset or offend anyone. You have done this so many times that you are a worn old trail. I don't care if I get banned but I think you are the most egotist/arrogant/jerk I have ever not met. This is the United F'ing States, not Cali plus the rest. We are equal here. I lived there 8 years and love the state but I also love Montana, Louisiana, New york, etc. We all have something to add. Cali has been a melting pot and trend setter for many years and that's why people on this site look to Cali. This is why many in the US have a badview point on marijuana because how Cali folks like you flaunt their disdain and have set a bad example for the rest of the US. Moms and dads in this country don't want their towns to be overrun with pot shops as Cali has let it go. They see all that and want to protect their families. This is not helping America's cannabis movement for med or rec use. You can't seem to acknowledge this.
Also this site is about growing marijuana, mostly with the medical minded, at least that is what I thought this site was about, till I met you. You have no regard for law, people, and most likely are cruel to animals. I guess you are very overweight with a very small pee pee cause you have to make up for your inadequacies by putting people down here. And Hal, I may be clueless but I have a couple of college degrees and a good job, something you most likely don't have.

There are too many good people here who don't post because of you, they don't want your _big pharm/Cali listen to me _rant. Shut up for a month and see how much nicer this forum will be and others may dare to say something. Oh and Hal..., well you know what I want to say you duck...

Thanks Hick, you do have the power you know. One bad egg can spoil the whole pie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hick
If it isn't about mmj... then don't call it mmj... THIS is where the 'black eye' is perceived by many, the 'fence sitters', those we "need" on our side. 
you can put lipstick on a pig but you know what?.. it's still going to stink up the dining room at family dinners... 
you can blow your horns all you like, my state is using your state, as a model of what NOT to follow. 


Noone ever asked for other States to follow Cali, at all.

It all goes to what each individual thinks that "MMJ" should be, we just have different views on what that is.

You boys keep up the good work and make your State "An example" of what MMJ should be

I'd rather drag my butt thru broken glass than ever to hear from you again...
Bye MP, taking a vacation from here


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## NorCalHal

For having a College Degree, your reading comprehension skills suck.

No where in your article did it state that he was busted for handing out False recs. You can read into it what you want.

Gotta love the overweight small pee pee comment. Now that's class.

Enjoy your vaca.


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## NorCalHal

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> ---i don't think it is fair for anyone outside CA to use us as a scapegoat for their own inadequate  politicians/people in making progress for their medical marijuana------


 
This is the best post of this thread.


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## Locked

Why flame NCH when there is an ignore feature?

Oh and I thought the name of this forum is Marijuana Passion? That's what my screen says anyway...does it say Medical Marijuana Passion on everyone else's?


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## NorCalHal

All good HL, her true colors came out. I have thick skin on my overweight butt...lol. 

Tough subject man, and it brings out passion in us all. No one is right or wrong, it is all our opinons really.
 I just try to tell the tale of my State and what myself and fellow Californians are thinking about the Federal raids to come, as the whole point of this therad was to address the OP's news article.
The fact that it irritates other states means we are moving in the right direction. Change is never easy.

Much respect to all who have posted in this heated topic.

Now I gotta get my fat butt upstairs and kick the Dog and wash my little pee pee, I got an appointment with the unemployment folks. haha.


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## orangesunshine

and another thing---why does the fed continue to go after property owners renting to dispensaries with the threat of property forfeiture if they don't evict---(kinda what the 1st post was about before the thread got off track)---fed should be going after the state of CA for making it legal to dispense---not the property owner acting within state law---my guess is CAUSE IT'S EASY PICKIN'S---


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## Roddy

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Believe Roddy, I know we are being watched, and we are going to do what we allways do, push the limits. I also love that we are being watched....take notes fellas.
> 
> While other States sit back and fued over what we are doing wrong, we are ever changing. We will not wait for the Gov't to give us thier OK, because we would STILL BE WAITING. We are demanding our right to toke up, plain and simple. *We will use every tool in the arsenal to do so.*
> 
> So,instead of kissing butt and making happy happy vibes hoping the gov't changes thier mind, we will rock this out. We have been waiting for the Feds to change since da 1930's, what makes you think they will change now?
> 
> It's not going to happen bro. We have to make them change.



I am a firm believer in proper marketing....good publicity through positive promotion. I said this a few times and stand by it, promote the positives through MMJ knowledge fairs. Bring in real doctors who can host informative presentations. Don't even bother to have doctors handing out recs, make it all about the info. Get favorable local reps to show as well...make it a party with food and such. Can't hurt!

Whatever happens Hal, keep safe!


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## Roddy

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> and another thing---why does the fed continue to go after property owners renting to dispensaries with the threat of property forfeiture if they don't evict---(kinda what the 1st post was about before the thread got off track)---fed should be going after the state of CA for making it legal to dispense---not the property owner acting within state law---my guess is CAUSE IT'S EASY PICKIN'S---



What are the state laws on dispensaries?


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## orangesunshine

great idea *Roddy*---already done round these parts---not to one up you and i can't even give you all the facts---but---i heard that the city of Oakland had the first ever MM fair type thing just last week---sorry so short on the details---just an example of how this thing is progressing out here---catching like a wild fire my friend---:48:


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## orangesunshine

Roddy said:
			
		

> What are the state laws on dispensaries?




it is my understanding that prop 215 making it legal for doctors to make recommendations for patients to smoke away what ails them does not cover the supply side of the equation---"patients" can grow their own under individual city limits---can carry---etc...some cities went as far as issuing business licenses to dispensaries to get the herb to the people---so---in effect---those cities that granted licenses to the dispensaries broke the state law---many are still around---but---the cities are all taking their own stance by making it a dry city or making up rules and regulations on how and where they can operate


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## dman1234

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> Why flame NCH when there is an ignore feature?
> 
> Oh and I thought the name of this forum is Marijuana Passion? That's what my screen says anyway...does it say Medical Marijuana Passion on everyone else's?


 
Agreed, I dont think this site is geared anymore to the medical users than it is recreational users.


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## orangesunshine

:yeahthat: ---touchy topic to say the least---difficult for us in ca to be on the front lines and poked by other states to set a good MM example when there is still so much here that is undetermined---but---i wouldn't have it any other way---:hubba:


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## Roddy

dman1234 said:
			
		

> Agreed, I dont think this site is geared anymore to the medical users than it is recreational users.



Right, we're just in a MMJ thread on an MJ site...all good!


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## Roddy

orangesunshine said:
			
		

> great idea *Roddy*---already done round these parts---not to one up you and i can't even give you all the facts---but---i heard that the city of Oakland had the first ever MM fair type thing just last week---sorry so short on the details---just an example of how this thing is progressing out here---catching like a wild fire my friend---:48:



I figured (and knew) it was already done, I just see many of these where they advertise coming in without/leaving with cards, bong shop vendors and such all over. Seems the more professional atmosphere, the better, leave all that out and just have informative presentations and a showing of what MMJ is actually about.

Most of the stuff I've seen advertised go on as a street party atmosphere, or a pot party.


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