# Freeze Warnings, BBBRRRRRRRR



## The Toker (Oct 3, 2008)

Here is my little girl that I left outside to bloom. It made it through the frost last night. Tonight they are calling for freeze warnings, thought I would get some pics and cover her up. What do you think. Hello from mid MI

My indoor room
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=30534

Indoor blooming
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31418

Buds!!!!
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=31476


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 3, 2008)

Back at ya from Seattle...Toker great idea man..and those look mighty tempting ..lol..Thanks for shareing with me my friend


KEEP M GREEN


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## andy52 (Oct 3, 2008)

i too am in mid mi.  suppossed to be 31 tonight.might want to cover her up


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## IRISH (Oct 3, 2008)

hey Toker, lookin' good man. yeah, possibly high 20's. my 'lil woman, and i just finished puttin' the cold frames over our gardens'. i stuck plastic drums' over my outdoor girls. second night in a row i had to turn on the heater. people been sayin' early snow here, and have been speculatin' a hard winter...


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## The Toker (Oct 4, 2008)

Took the bag off this morning and were the bag was touching the cola, the top of the bud was frozen. Will this be OK or should I harvest it now? Anybody????


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## IRISH (Oct 4, 2008)

did you tie the bottom of the bag closed so the frost could'nt enter the bag? it sounds like you did'nt and some moisture entered the bag. it's gonna freeze again tonight too toker. tie the bottom closed as best as you can. lets hope it did'nt do irreversible damage already. watch it close over next few days'. you'll know if the frost did any damage by tomorrow by latest. good luck T.
one of my tops got broke off last night. it possibly happened this morn. when i took the plastic drum off it. maybe it also froze to the drum? ...


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## HippyInEngland (Oct 5, 2008)

The Toker said:
			
		

> Took the bag off this morning and were the bag was touching the cola, the top of the bud was frozen. Will this be OK or should I harvest it now? Anybody????


 
Get a couple of bamboo canes and stick them in the ground, put the canes into the corners of the bag so the canes are holding the bag off the plant 

Green bags dont stand out so much.


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## zipflip (Oct 5, 2008)

i just picked up a bunch them babboo canes at wal-mart. they painted green and come in budle of like 20 canes bout 4 ft long. they were clearanced out for 2 bucks


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## SFC (Oct 5, 2008)

If you have easy access to them you can  mist them too. Sounds crazy but it will help protect them from frost/freeze.  Myself, I pulled 16 of 25.  But the Daywreckers were as big around as softballs so I am good.


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## bombbudpuffa (Oct 5, 2008)

> you can mist them too. Sounds crazy but it will help protect them from frost/freeze.


Whats the science behind this? I've never heard this one before.


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## zipflip (Oct 5, 2008)

:yeahthat:


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## SFC (Oct 6, 2008)

Something to do with the water crystallizing forming some type of insulating barrier, check into it, it is for real.


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## IRISH (Oct 6, 2008)

SFC said:
			
		

> Something to do with the water crystallizing forming some type of insulating barrier, check into it, it is for real.


 
i don't think i would be spraying my bud on a night it's going below 30 here. it will turn black, and it will die. (maybe a sugar water or something heavy?, i don't really know). im with bbp, sfc. i'd have to see the benefits first. i've had two hard frosts already. one night 29, and one 31. even my best efforts could'nt save all.


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## zipflip (Oct 6, 2008)

does MJ show obvious signs its done for after a frost. or will it gradually look sickly and then shrivel an die?


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## Hick (Oct 6, 2008)

banjobuzz said:
			
		

> i don't think i would be spraying my bud on a night it's going below 30 here. it will turn black, and it will die. (maybe a sugar water or something heavy?, i don't really know). im with bbp, sfc. i'd have to see the benefits first. i've had two hard frosts already. one night 29, and one 31. even my best efforts could'nt save all.



orchard growers do it with fruit trees, to protect both fruit and blossoms "I believe". But I would be hesitant to apply it to mj flowers.
  Though it 'might' work, you aren't dealing with a huge volume of trees. Covering plants with a sheet, blanket, tarp, ect. works best if it does not touch the plant. Any place that the covering touches the plant, there is a chance of freezing.


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## HippyInEngland (Oct 6, 2008)

This is the concept behind the theory, if it works for vines, it works for other delicate plants.


Frost protection thanks to water



... or how water saves the day. 

In early spring, weather can be very capricious and every farmer fears temperature changes. When the weather gets warm enough, the vine buds and benefits from the sun. But all of a sudden the thermometer decreases below 0°C (32°F) during the night and the irreversible happens : the newly-born buds are killed by the frost. Damn'it ! The grape harvest will be bad this year... 

Hopefully there is an ancient technique to prevent that. And what makes it almost magic is that only water is needed to save the crops. The idea is to keep an eye on the thermometer and when it's heading for 0°C, start spraying the vine (ar any other fruit tree) with water. A miracle is about to happen : if the weather does not become too cold, the poor defenseless buds will be saved. 

There is no miracle 

Now I swap my farmer's hat with that of a physicist and this castratrice action replaces all magic with plain factuals. No it is not a miracle if the buds were saved by water, it has to do with thermodynamics. 

Thermal exchanges are energy exchanges and energy is expressed in Joule. When you heat an object, you give it a certain amount of energy. The temperature change reflects the amount of energy given. From the definition of enthalpy : 

&#916;H = cp &#916;T, (cp > 0 in J/kg/K, T in K or C) 
When the air is cooler than the object, it is in fact the object that heats the atmosphere. It gives away energy (&#916;H < 0) hence its temperature decreases (&#916;T < 0) and the buds frost. 

This is the case when there is no phase change. During a phase change, the temperature (of a pure substance) is constant (the phase change temperature) although energy is still exchanged. The heat absorbed by a substance as it changes phase from liquid to solid is called the Latent Heat of Fusion Lf and it is expressed in J/kg. The Latent Heat of Fusion of water is Lf = 334 kJ/kg which means that you must give 334 kJ to a 1 kg ice cube at 0°C to melt it completely (expose it for 5 min to a 1000 W radiator). By the end of an operation you will have 1 kg of water at 0°C. 

1 kg of water releases 334 kJ when it changes from liquid to solid phase. The cold freezes the water which stays at 0°C during this process and protecs the buds. This is why farmers spray their vines with water when the weather gets cold. 

What is it worth ? 

Now let's get an idea of how efficient this technique is. Newton's conducto-convective law established a relation between the difference of temperatures between two substances and the amount of energy exchanged : 

&#934; = h (Tair - Twater) is the thermal flux (W/m2) released by the water into the atmosphere. 
h is Newton's conducto-convective coefficient which ranges typically from 5 to 1000 W/K/m2. 

      |  XXX  |
      |  XXX  |  vine branch surrounded with water
      |  XXX  |
      |  XXX  | 
Let V be the volume of water, m the mass of water and S the surface in contact with the atmosphere. The energy released by the water when it changes phase is Q = m · Lf. The power exchanged is P = S · h · (Tair - Twater). Hence the water will frost in t = - Q / P seconds : 

t = - m · Lf / ( S · h · (Tair - Twater) ) 
Here is the model : 
Length of vine branch : 1 m 
Diameter of vine branch : 0.01 cm 
Mass of water : m = 100 g 
Latent Heat of Fusion of water Lf = 334 kJ/kg 
Exchange surface : S = 0.03 m2 
Newton's conducto-convective coefficient air/water : h = 50 W/K/m 
Tair = -5 °C 
Twater = 0 °C 
t = 4446 s = 1h 14 min 

Closing words 

This method does indeed save the buds from frost but the temperature must not be too low for it to function correctly. The same idea was used to prevent cellars from freezing during cold winters. People just filled them with buckets of water because they release energy when they change phase. 

So it looks as if it could go down to minus 5 but the surface will register 0 for 1hr 14 mins.


here is the fun bit .... who volunteers to try this on their buds?

:rofl:


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## zipflip (Oct 6, 2008)

not I LOL


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## Hick (Oct 6, 2008)

..."Ahhh yes.. the o' _Newton's latent heat fusion_ concept....


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## IRISH (Oct 6, 2008)

(i think), that spraying water on vine plants to save from frost, has to be 
sprayed at a constant mist during each hour the frost lies at ground surface level, and incorporated with fans , such as windmill type fans, so
 to keep at a constant temp. you are sorta on the money sfc. i've seen this done on grape, and blueberry crops around here, on a large scale.
i'll pass on that challenge hippy  . i prefer this method...


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## The Toker (Oct 6, 2008)

I agree with all of you. They use the misting and fans for fruit crops in Florida. I just have a little 4 footer that I covered with the plastic bag as seen in the first post, held it up with stakes after the first night, and the plant is in mint condition. Now I am working with a week of good temps and have gained another week of growing. We will just take it 1 week at a time.


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

*please advice ASAP*

wow  i cannot believe how much different forecasters fromone general location vary. radio forecast tv forecast local vs weather channel. local television stations, online forecasts etc etc..
  my local news i just got done watchin on the internet and the weather forecast is callin for patchy frost here  and definate frost for a town bout 160 miles north and my plants are 40 miles north of me. so inbetween patchy and definate frost tonight as we speak and my grow is in a pretty low elevation as well and wit heat rising science i'm almost sure it'll be frostin tonight. 
  oh man i dont know wat to do lol
 but come this weekend they'll for sure be done for weather wise. no if's and's or buts bout it cuz lows will be down in the upper 20's for the rest next week. i might end up having to go chop them or most them in a lil bit. 
  but my buds are all small  boohoo.  but the sample i tiook from each smokes nice and gets ya  really good buzz. 
  now i herd mj can handle a light frost but this weekend is the weather end for the ladies for sure cuz i am not gonna go 40 miles one way  and back every night just to cover them and another 40 there and 40 back to uncover. 
  now if they can live thru tonight they'll get another day or two.
  now would just one or two days make any sort of difference at all?  or should i just not take my chances and go getem now.

tomorrow high mid to low 60's
2morrow lows mid to upper 30's

thurs highs mid 55
thurs lows 30-32

fri high 53      wit chance rain 30%
fri low  low 30's

sat high 51
sat. low 32 another 30% chance rain

sun. high 49 windy chance of snow after dark
sun. low 31

monday high 50 low 26 chance of light snow.

wat would u do right now wit this forcast coming
  and just rained a good inch on sunday.


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

:bump: dont mean to be impatient but im gettin ready to go cuttin and just curious if anyone would feel against it wit the wether conditiuons i posted above. thanks


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## SFC (Oct 7, 2008)

I would get them Sunday. 26 is getting brutal.


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## godspeedsuckah (Oct 7, 2008)

30 here this morning and a heavy frost on the ground. I'm not sure what you should do zip. I cut mine lastnight, not much of a harvest at all, can't wait till my 400w is cranking


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

LOL i just went to my grandpas house and checked his outdoor thermometer which is on a farm so out in open. and it was only 40 deg farenheit.  and was nowhere near wat the forcasters said. 
  to hell wit weather forcasters here i say. they dont know their heads from their butts lol
   right now it bout 6 am and its actually warmer than it was last week bout this time couple days . lol
  so im thinkin i'll just take a cruise closer to the grow out in the country and check conditions myself and see from there. kinda a hassle but it'll be worth it.
 but yeah 26 is brutal i'm thinkin as well. and i could sure use every day i can get now.  and yet sunday is almost week away and i bet it'll change every night up til the very day. lol thats how our forecasters are here lol

wat are some limits all u have had ur MJ plants pushed to as far as extreemes in weather go and yet still pulled thru.???  thats more my curiousity. wat can they handle to the fullest extent. cuz i need every day i can get here now.


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## godspeedsuckah (Oct 7, 2008)

i saw pics of a girls plants in canada which had snow on them when she cut them, and they had already been through a hard frost and were fine.


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> 30 here this morning and a heavy frost on the ground. I'm not sure what you should do zip. I cut mine lastnight, not much of a harvest at all, can't wait till my 400w is cranking


 
yeah the weather forcasters said we were suppose to get a hard an heavy freeze/frost for couple days  two weeks ago  yet and still no frost so go figure LOL.

my poor sativas are just massive. more wider than taller more so. and all buddin now but doubt it'll be worth a beans even. 

just from wat i've read and herd etc... i'd say they round 4-5 weeks into flower maybe six. cant really remember or wat ya'd consider the starting time of flower as every plant started at different times give or take days or a wek or two.  other than the indicas i got goin.
  dont know specific strain on sativas but they from good bagseeds i've saved over couple years.  they not very tall like sativas are and are all shorter than i am tall but the leaves all have 7-9 & 11 blades on few of em. and the blades on leaves are that of a sativa. completely opposite of the indicas i got (fat blades. 5-7 blades max on leaves)
  the sat's are pretty bushy  so maybe they hybrid or cross or somethin and hopefully they more acclimated to tough cooler temps. but so far they pullin strong, but leaves are droppin alot by the day and turnin yellow too.


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## godspeedsuckah (Oct 7, 2008)

Do you have a grow room inside? I have been meaning to get my winter grow going but one thing leads to another and next thing you know it still isnt done  Tonight the beans are getting germinated.


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## Hick (Oct 7, 2008)




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## godspeedsuckah (Oct 7, 2008)

Holy Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. Was that one of yours Hick?


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> Do you have a grow room inside? I have been meaning to get my winter grow going but one thing leads to another and next thing you know it still isnt done  Tonight the beans are getting germinated.


 
i will once all is said an done wit my outdoor grow. dont wanna take on 2 things at once. lol  i not a very good multi tasker. i' a simple person lol
  but i will shortly. but as it looks i'm only goonna be doin bagseed again as i dont feel safe orderin online.  but better than nothin and i got some pretty decent bud off my girls so far off just good bagseed


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

i seen that pic once before on here one time. thats intense.   did it live after that or was it harvested right away.?


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## IRISH (Oct 7, 2008)

had to be photocropped? if not , i guarantee it came down immediately.
a forgotten, left behind guerilla grow, that someone came across? i've been a grower outdoors over 30 years, and i've heard peeps talk about not being able to locate all thier plants of guerilla grows, until after a first snow. i've never seen it personally. 
tell you what, i got 1 plant that we'll do a sorta test on. we'll let it hang out 'til the snow arrives, to see if it can fare. this is my dog pen grow, that was a volunteer this year. i covered it the other night with a plastic drum, in a heavy freeze, and it got topped prematurely. me thinks the top froze to the drum. . it was covered two consecutive nights. i'll let it be from here on out, til it snows. and we shall see...bb...


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## Hick (Oct 7, 2008)

It broke some branches and split the main stalk, but the rest of it was harvested about 10 days later. It lived. 
  I can't say that it does them any good, but they "can" survive some pretty harsh conditions, for short periods.


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## Hick (Oct 7, 2008)

taken of the same plant 14 days later, ccording to the cam' date.. _honest_ banjo'.. 
..BUT.. I also know that several hours of freeze can kill them. The snow was melted and gone by 10:00 am, and temps climbed into the mid-high 60's by afternoon. Followed by several days of "Indian Summer" weather.


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

swwet.  thanks hick.  that makes me feel a lot better bout the weather now.  
  so in other words they can handle freezin temps so long as it warms up not long after, say like a matter of hours gettin back above freezing again?
  cuz it may hit freezin temps  come this weekend but daytime highs will be in upper 50's lower 60's.
  my sativas are gonna have to kick it out there for a while so i might as well keep updated on them on here as i'll probably let them go til they simple die from the cold or somethin cuz they are no where near worth harvesting yet.


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## Hick (Oct 7, 2008)

Well I can't/don't advise it, if it can be avoided at all. Cover them without the cover actually touching them, and draped all the way to the ground, would be 'much' more prefered. 
I would also guess that it would be somewhat strain dependant. Other factors, like windchill and dew point might cause different results.


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## FINKELSTEINSHITKID (Oct 7, 2008)

Wow Im Impressed, Hippie ! You Need To Run For President,i Learned Something Today Thanks!!!


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## IRISH (Oct 7, 2008)

sooo, that was the one you lost in the wild hick? . ok, i believe. 
really.
zip, i would have to say ,(with this new visual info), certain conditions apply here. do you see how far along that snow bud is? well, it's got it's 'fat layer' on, that prolly protected it in it's conditions'. that bud was ready to be harvested, when it was snowed on, or very, very near to.
can you show us some pics here on how far along your girls are zip?


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

thought bout covering them deal too but it doesnt seem worth it as i'll only get maybe 2 weeks tops before it starts throwin hard frosts and more light snow/basically impossible growin conditions and enen then my sativas will MAYBE be half way thru flower if that. 
also i'd have to start coverin them every night for a week prior andd that is just too much hassle for me to go bout coverin em and uncoverin every night for a week or more just so they can be half thru flower.
 i only got 4 sativas
-1 is just showin hairs LOL  finally. but its pretty short but def. sativa leaf's
-1 is another short perfect x mas tree shaped lookin sativa only almost 3 feet tall just showin signs of actual buds as of sunday
-1 my fatty looks almost like a giant spider stuck on his back wit 12 legs and one main center cone thats like up to my chin(looks like a rocket/missile standin on end lol. it's very uniform and yet unique in shape for my eyes have seen tho.  but its got hundreds of little buds starting they comin out of every where 2 or 3 every inch or so of each branch(spider leg) lol.  just a shame she really aint gonna be worth a beans tho. i know in my heart that if she were to go til november or so she would and would give me ALOT of bud. 
-and my last sativa is bout similar to the upside down spider one but smaller and not as uniform in shape and only up to my bottom rib cage/chest


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## zipflip (Oct 7, 2008)

banjobuzz said:
			
		

> can you show us some pics here on how far along your girls are zip?


  most recent in my grow thread below in signature.
 but all i got is a cell phone cam now and its risky goin there to them at daylight for it huntin season now and they out like mad crazy here now. lol .
  i also accidentally broke my friends digital camera i was usin in the beginnin. so i gotta buy him a new one to replace it before i buy myself one lol..    sorry 
but my indicas are goin into their ninth week on one and eighth week on other 3. but either way they all decent for my likin(high) as i sampled em already. pix also in grow below.
 my sativas for 2 of them are showin small actual buds bout maybe dime size at most and 2 others, ones just showin hairs finally LOL and other one  has barely shown tiny bud starts.


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