# Ebb and Flow: I got 6 foot plants and no buds...



## NewbieG (Mar 21, 2009)

I've been working on my first hydro grow after a few soil grows and I'm not really happy with the results that I've gotten and I don't know exactly why...

Like I stated in the title my plants are HUGE. TOO tall i would. I burned one of my sativas early on because i didn't have any space, but even my other three plants  (2 of which are indicas) have buds but they are small, leafy, and although full of crystals I can't see them producing much. The seeds are bag seed, but I can't imagine thats the reason why things are going the way they are.

I was using Dutch Master Advanced nutrients, ran out, and switched to AN Bloom Booster Pro and some Humbolt gravity. which helped, but even at quarter strength did a bit of damage to the plant. In addition my ppms are ever increasing do to the GH pH down that I have to use daily to keep the pH in range. 

I am fed up with these terrible results and want to those big beautiful nugs I see here, instead of these tiny leafy buds I'm getting.

I cleaned out my entire system and replaced all the water to get rid of any plant material that was stuck in the system and decaying.

I just changed out the water and add quarter strength bloom booster at 300 ppm but was wondering if I am adding the nutes wrong by measuring it out then putting it in the reservoir? Do I need to make sure they dissolve first THEN put them in the res? 

Am I missing out not putting the base Dutch Master nutrients n e more and sticking with the high p-K bloom booster? I also add molasses.

I am starting a new grow soon, and will make a grow journal that I will update daily with stats so that my grow can be critically analyzed by the more experience growers on this forum, but right now i would like to see some results from the 3 months i've put into this grow. I've read books, watched videos but am having trouble with the application and would appreciate the help. Thank you in advanced to any posters willing to help.


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## Funkfarmer (Mar 21, 2009)

What kind of light are you using?


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## NewbieG (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks Smoky. Let me actually post up all my specs.

2x4 grow tent
600 watt air cooled HPS lumatek
       - I wouldn't call the light cool to the touch, but it isn't hot.
- 500 c.f.m fan filter the heat from the light and the rest of the room
- Temperatures are consistently at 85 degree through the day and drop down to about 70 at night.
- I adjust my pH daily to 5.6 and let it drift upwards until the next day where it would normally be in the low 6's. Max 6.3-6.4
- 40 gallon reservoir.
- The plants have been topped
- Plants were vegged for a month (was going to flower at 2 weeks but wanted to FIM and decided to wait till i saw big growth again. At the time the plants were UNDER 2 feet tall. I've been trying to post up pics, but like always, MP's server is too busy.

If you need any more info. Just ask. Thanks.


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## whiterussian (Mar 21, 2009)

yeah what light are you using? and also what is the grow space you have? i got a lot of airy nugs because i had too much plant in a small space and i know exactly what you mean about tall big plants with no bud i had 1 like that, my advice to you is to switch over to general hydroponic nutrients theres very easy to follow and by far one of the best, they also have a nutrient calculator on there website hxxp://www.genhydro.com there you will get an exact amount of nutrients needed for the amount of gallons you have for that stage of the plant, get all there nutrients, for example this grow im using flora nova nectar, floralicious plus, 1 part grow/bloom, liquid cool bloom and theres a few more i wish i would have got, the floralicious plus puts way more bud sites on your plants, so even if you have a long branch with 2 nugs, this stuff will make a lot more nugs coming out on the long branch, so in all reality it increases your yeild a lot, its all good stuff and before you switch to 12/12 buy this stuff called "bud blood" you can get it at hydroponic shops and if they dont have that exact name ask for something similar, it basicly reduces the strech from veg to flower dramaticly your plants should only stretch 6 inches with this stuff its nuts, but anyways man good luck to you and your grow,
best of luck, WR


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## NewbieG (Mar 21, 2009)

Here are two pics of what I assume is an indica being that it stretched about 1/3 what the other two plants did in flower. The pictures are of the top cola. More pictures of the grow can be seen in my pictures.


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## whiterussian (Mar 21, 2009)

NewbieG said:
			
		

> Thanks Smoky. Let me actually post up all my specs.
> 
> 2x4 grow tent
> 600 watt air cooled HPS lumatek
> ...


ok the temperature change is too much you should have it about 74 during the day and no lower then 68 at night, and tahts a very small tent to be growing 6 foot plants in tahts probably the main reason you have airy nugs, you should upgrade your tent to at least a 5x5 or a 5x10 and put a 1000 watt in the 5x5 or 2 in the 5x10 or you could always put more 600 watt lights but i prefer the 1000


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## NewbieG (Mar 21, 2009)

I posted twice. Read second post. Sorry.


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## NewbieG (Mar 21, 2009)

Thanks white russian for the quick response! I'm sick so I'll be checking MP every 30 seconds 

Ok so lets get into things:
1. Is 85 really really really too high? I currently have a large box fan PLUS a homemade cooltube PLUS an AC for the room to keep temperatures down to this level. I really don't know what else I could do to help lower these temps any more!! Suggestions????

2. I agree with you completely. The plants grew soooo fast and sooo much when I switched them into flower. I can honestly say that I got double the growth I did with soil. I really wasn't expecting this, this is why the plants got so tall. To clarify, I've kinda given up on my sativas because they got pretty burnt from the light (like you said 6 ft tall is just too damn tall for the room) To clarify, the picture I have posted is my indica.

3. I am using 6 inch square pots. I realize that this is small for plants of this size, but what I figured was that its hydro, I'm feeding every three hours, and the plants don't really need a huge root system because they are always being fed and its not soil. Could this be the origins of my problem? I plan on doing a SOG next time so for this purpose my equipment is fine. 

4. I can't switch nutes... I just purchased 150 worth of Dutch Master Flowering nutes so gotta use those first.

5. I only change my nutrient solution about once every 3 weeks, adding water as needed. I know most growers change it weekly, but I've seen others that go through full grows with no change. Could this also be a problem?

6. Could you guys recommend a pH down that won't make my ppm rise so I can get a good handle on how high my nutes REALLY are.

Thanks again White Russian and bandit.


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## whiterussian (Mar 21, 2009)

NewbieG said:
			
		

> Thanks white russian for the quick response! I'm sick so I'll be checking MP every 30 seconds
> 
> Ok so lets get into things:
> 1. Is 85 really really really too high? I currently have a large box fan PLUS a homemade cooltube PLUS an AC for the room to keep temperatures down to this level. I really don't know what else I could do to help lower these temps any more!! Suggestions????
> ...


 
1. Yes the best thing you can do is buy a portable ac unit that will keep your temps where you want them.

3. yes that could be a major role in your problem, i really havnt used the ebb and flow much, i really like general hydroponics waterfarm, there really easy to keep track of and you can move the plants around much easyer because there independent buckets, unless you get the waterfarm 8pack which is what i did, its about $279.99 from my hydro store, now what i did was buy 8 extra L fittings and bought some extra blue tubeing and just got rid of that oversided resivor, so i have 2 gallons in each bucket, works great. and i think a 6 inch pot is way too small.

4. If you like those nutrients then stick with them, but i thought your having a problem with airy and small nugs? Nutrients play a very large role in the finished product, if it were me i think better buds is work an additional $160  

5. yes you want to change your water every 7-14 days (i do it every week), you really want to keep all your stuff clean, and always have fresh phed water, and your ph lvl changes within that week, ive changed my water, and then the next week my PH was 2.5 points higher! i had it originally at 7 then it was almost 9, so keep a close eye on that also.

6. im sure your mixing your nutients before you check ph right? nutrients change your ph lvl mix then check, im glad to be helpful


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## NewbieG (Mar 22, 2009)

whiterussian said:
			
		

> 1. Yes the best thing you can do is buy a portable ac unit that will keep your temps where you want them.
> 
> 3. yes that could be a major role in your problem, i really havnt used the ebb and flow much, i really like general hydroponics waterfarm, there really easy to keep track of and you can move the plants around much easyer because there independent buckets, unless you get the waterfarm 8pack which is what i did, its about $279.99 from my hydro store, now what i did was buy 8 extra L fittings and bought some extra blue tubeing and just got rid of that oversided resivor, so i have 2 gallons in each bucket, works great. and i think a 6 inch pot is way too small.
> 
> ...



1. I actually turned the thermometer I have around, so that it could get some of the wind to the censor, and the temps dropped to exactly 75 from the 85 it was, I think that may be ok now lol

2. I think your right, I think the size of the pot must have been one of the biggest problems for me seeing how the plants got so damn tall so fast. Like I said, in order to fix this problem for next grow, I will use the blood bud that I bought that you suggested to use to help keep them smaller and transfer into flowering easier.

3. The nutes I have worked great in veg. and made the initial stretch when in flower huge so I think they are working well. I don't know if I can really make a determining statement yet as I JUST ordered the bloom boosters and was giving them basic nutes for the majority of the time which would explain the airy nugs to some extent. Your right though, I'm going to do more homework on this stuff and maybe pick up the nutes you suggested.

6. I always I add nutes first then add pH down IF I add nutes for that day. If the ppm is the same I lleave it,  if the ppm is higher (which itnormally is because of my pH down I dont add nutes and will add water once the level drops enough.

Thanks again WR. Your the only one helping and i really do appreciate it.


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