# Flood Table v Ebb & Flow v NFT



## effdecaf (Oct 27, 2013)

All of these techniques employ leaving the roots exposed in inert substrate (hydroton, coir, air, etc) and applying nutrient bath directly to them or substantially applied to the substrate.

We are considering building an indoor system and wondering the trade offs...

There is the obvious inexpensive aspect with a simple flood & drain table, bell siphon or drain, and buckets filled with inert medium...

But then again there's less algae and 'cleaner' look with an enclosed system.

I've done a DWC recirculating and HATED the headache with the DIY of it all. The link in my sig shows the current vertical NFT setup, but if we can do it to  accommodate a table style for lst/fim/scrogging then we wont have to redo the space... 

Any obvious pro's or con's you'd like to share? Thanks in advance!


----------



## basement (Oct 28, 2013)

My choice would be "ebb n flow" table. It's a very flexible option, for different mediums and pots. It is also easily converted to a "drip" system, my preferred growing method.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 28, 2013)

I just don't think that there is any way that the tubes are large enough to give the plant's roots enough room.  In addition if you have problems with the  spray nozzles (and you will) you cannot even get to them with the tube system while the plants are growing.  The roots get incredibly tangled and can even cause the flow of water to stop, causing floods.

Not all DWC systems are DIY  (the DIY is just for those of us that are poor).  There are many manufactured DWC systems out there.  That, personally, would be my choice.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Oct 28, 2013)

If you want to grow many plants that are shorter, smaller, then the flood table is a good idea, but I don't like the idea of having all that water in the open air to create more humidity.

I have tried several different methods and I tend to try to blend the best of each type of method if it can be used. I found that by using the 18gal totes in a recirculating dwc/topfeed in coco coir pots gives me all of the best things that I like to have in my grows. It also allows me to grow the plants bigger, which I think gives better yields than the smaller plants. It is also somewhat versatile which allows me to grow under a scrog or individual bushes depending on the plants. 

If I had the space to really do what I want, I would do a specialized type of flood n drain where I have considerably larger plants in totes of coco coir that is suspended above a small space in the tote to allow full drainage. I would feed these from 55gal reservoirs. And I would grow small trees.


----------



## ShOrTbUs (Oct 29, 2013)

the first picture, which is an aero system. is what i based my DIY aero design on. i can tell you from experience that it is a LOT of work maintaining this system. it has to be constantly cleaned. the micro sprayers are a pain in the arse to clean. this system will only work well in a SOG style. i grew 5 plants from seed. they had to be transplanted into the system by 3 weeks or the root ball becomes problematic. after left in the system for a just 1 week. they will no longer be able to be removed and placed back in. 12/12 from the time they root as clones will be the only effective way to make it work.


----------



## trillions of atoms (Oct 29, 2013)

In nft and even ebb and flow you can use smaller growbags and still get great yields. The roots are getting their nutrition needed instantly therefor it takes alot less surface area to provide the plant with everything needed.


I have an apollo 44 im dying to setup but I dont have the area.


Flood and drain fan here ...LOVE IT but I run rdwc if I have the space. Easy setup ...cheap, easy to tweak and see results quickly.


Big water fan here!!!!!

I have a small area and very little headroom...you would be suprised tho. Half gallon growbag and spread apart for another week of sun before doom.

edit adding pics


----------



## Hushpuppy (Oct 30, 2013)

Dang TOA  Those are some fat buds on that little plant. That come outta the flood n drain or the rdwc? How tall is that plant?


----------



## P Jammers (Oct 30, 2013)

One system I have not seen mentioned is the bucket EBB setup like the Titan, CAP and HTG types. 

In terms of just overall easy to use, I have found them to be the very best in hydro growing.

Friends don't let friends go DWC, or RDWC. Unless you are prepared to be a tweaker that likes to have the hands on approach every day of your life.


----------



## sunakard2000 (Oct 30, 2013)

:holysheep: P Jammers... your ears musta been ringin, been a great increase in LED growers and serious questions. but no PJ around... good to see you back buddy. cant wait to see whats new in your LED world


----------



## P Jammers (Oct 30, 2013)

sunakard2000 said:
			
		

> :holysheep: P Jammers... your ears musta been ringin, been a great increase in LED growers and serious questions. but no PJ around... good to see you back buddy. cant wait to see whats new in your LED world


Few facts added to the Purple Diesel thread in bud porn on LED's. 

Not in to drama at all so as long as things stay on the up and up I'll be stopping in.


----------



## effdecaf (Oct 30, 2013)

Thank you all for the input so far. Great discussions. 

I'd love to hear whats the best LED for vegging a mother. The other wants to veg one in the cats room with LEDs lol.

RDWC is DEF not an option. I'm putting everything from the OD HYDRO into the next setup so even buying a pre-made RWDC system is too much headache to ponder. I do see some elegant systems out there, but I like the simplicity of the table style for SCROG... Esp after hearing more about your experiences with the various types. 

Clogs are NOT FUN, leaks are NOT FUN (esp on plastic lined carpet - *** were we thinkin'!), and DRY REZ's because your friggen water filter wasn't screwed in properly and the backup rez dries out are DEF NOT FRIGGEN FUN!!

TOA thanks for the great porn. We were planning on scroggin' it, so probably keep to an ebb & flow table to try and emulate some nft (substrate being solid vs air).

Hushpuppy - We live in an arid region so that extra humidity wont hit until the dead of summer. Figure a room AC would take care of heat and also the rH.

For a flood table we were thinking 3' x 3' and I wanted to pack it with 36 plants n scrog it, but reading around and the lil' bit of experience I have tells me that getting 6x6 plants in a table that size is asking for disaster. 4x4 plants in the 3'x3' size or 5x5 plants in a 4'x4' size would be optimal. 

Administration: top drip - ebb & flow

Substrate: either hydroton or coir. I have experience with organisms and coir before, and really enjoy the rapid expansion factor of more than just the coir hitting water... Might try putting lids that are rockwool sized on top of empty 1 gallons and top dripping the ebb&flow (thoughts??)...

Drain: Bell siphon w/level spigot - gravity fed to rez.

Rez: 1-1.5 gallons per 1gallon tub/bin/bag/shell in the system. Pump - salvaged from the tile saw lol...

Lights: (veg) 1 - 600 watt HPS
(flower) 2 - 600 watt HPS

Nutes: Aqua Flora A & B, Silica, pK13/14 in flowering, other: open to suggestions... H2O2 with each flush...

I'm not looking forward to buying a TDS/EC/PH/T sensor but its a small investment in the long run with any hydro ambitions...

Thanks for your input so far and any more is appreciated!


----------



## WeedHopper (Oct 30, 2013)

P Jammers said:
			
		

> One system I have not seen mentioned is the bucket EBB setup like the Titan, CAP and HTG types.
> 
> In terms of just overall easy to use, I have found them to be the very best in hydro growing.
> 
> Friends don't let friends go DWC, or RDWC. Unless you are prepared to be a tweaker that likes to have the hands on approach every day of your life.



OH really. THG and Andy52,,whom i consider my friends,,are the reason I love growing DWC. I have never had any problems with growing DWC,,and tweeking is part of growing different strains,,and to me part of the fun of my hobby.


----------



## effdecaf (Oct 30, 2013)

WeedHopper said:
			
		

> OH really. THG and Andy52,,whom i consider my friends,,are the reason I love growing DWC. I have never had any problems with growing DWC,,and tweeking is part of growing different strains,,and to me part of the fun of my hobby.



Been there done that? Looking for something new to try myself. Did a DIY RDWC with huge success on tall and also short phenotypes. Had the whole setup.

I can say two things with certainty:

It was hugely rewarding.

It was a huge time sink.

...


I can see how the pre-made systems take the initial R&D down to "how many buckets do you want" and keep the rest determined and fool-proof. Looking for a new twist to my hydro hobby, myself.


----------



## WeedHopper (Oct 30, 2013)

Thank You effdecaf. I also loved DWC growing but I also grow in Soil. I just like to grow period. Im down now only cause of my Grand Daughter is living with Paw Paw and Mimi.


----------



## trillions of atoms (Oct 30, 2013)

Thats ebb and flow.  I havent had the space to do anything other than a couple of small trays under a 1k. 

Density is where I kill it...the plants are all right under the reflector. Im working with less than 5 total feet of height.  thats reflector hanging and tray with rez under it which makes for less than three feet to play with.


Quick too...I rarely have a cut thats not fully finished and drying or already curing in three total months. Two weeks veg and flower for 2 months cut n hang n set more back in.... 

gotta have time in there or gpw is out the window and just a number.


----------



## effdecaf (Nov 4, 2013)

How about the info in this thread? makes a strong visual argument for sprinklers in the rootzone.

*1010101010100101011010100101011*tps://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=113425


----------

