# Things to not use - Growing indoors



## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Hi there MP, I searched up things to not use for indoor growing. Since I'm a novice and don't know much I'm making this so people can throw in things they've used that, either do not work, or could even kill your plant! I have one thing to add so far that I bought cuz it was pretty cheap and thought I could use it. Its called "Wonder Soil" a soil brick that expands. If any beginner thinks they should use this, think again, it can, and most likely will nute 'burn' your plant. I tried it, and the under tips of my leaves are brown/yellow, the burn that occurs when there is too much of certain nutes. Another product to not use is MG food spikes, they will also burn your plants, and don't provide the right amount of npk for flower or veg. So again this forum is for anybody and everybody who wants to know about certain products and their impact on your plants, or if you want to add something for everyone else to see so they know not to get it.


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## zipflip (May 6, 2014)

DO NOT BUY CHEAP REBRANDED CHINESE KNOCKOFF VERSIONS OF ANYTHING, ESPECIALLY ANYTHIN USED TO FIGHT OFF ODOR OR HEAT. u might get lucky and then u might not , but when comes to some things like I said wit fightin heat and odor I learned several a lessons over the years and never again will I buy generic grow equip or anything for growin anything ever again. 
  dropped 600$ one time to HTGsupply bein was in financial pinch atm and figured wth it gonna hurt a few generic versions of some things...  LOL yeah right. maybe if I was some old grandma startin her tomatoes in Dixie cups in window sill every year for 50 years that Chinese knockoff garbage may seem fascinating and like its all that and a bag of chips but trust me,   YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!!!!!       BUT after the restocking fees for returnin all the stuff and havin to reorder all real gear from else whee it was expensive lesson learned. I sought out to save money and ended up spendin more in the end than if I were to have jus gone out and got quality stuff the first time. if ya cant afford it, then wait. DIY something form round ur house til got nuff cash.  but don't throw ur hard earned money at these cheap knockoff goods pushers. JMO and EXP.  not jus one exp either but many.
 Good luck siftin thru all the garbage to find the right quality item and the right reputable  retailer whom u cant trust too. STAY AWAY FROM EBAY TOO!!!  especially for nutes. ebay I swear is like the land of misfit garbage rotten/bad goods or knockoffs fakes, scams  etc etc
   If u shop for a bargain in a world where everything is "u get what u pay for" then ur never gonna get what ur  really bargaining for


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## Rosebud (May 6, 2014)

This is a great thread to start, thank you. Man, haven't we all done dumb stuff to start. 

I just would like to say that any advice your receive about chemical nutes or pesticides on this site ot anywhere else needs to be backed up with the LABEL. Always read the label... I am an organic grower and i cringe when i see people using heavy duty chemicals on a plant the will be ingested.  

Thanks for starting this thread...


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## Hackerman (May 6, 2014)

I'll toss one in.... Jiffy Peats. The little tablets that you soak in water and they puff up to a little ball the size of a golf ball with a net around them.

I have cloned in these, rockwool and dirt. These are the worse. Maybe the peat is a little too sweet. Maybe they are packed together too tight. I'm not sure why but they have always given me bad results compared to other techniques.

The odd thing is, I have often seen these recommended.

Just my 2 cents


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 6, 2014)

Do not use any pre-nuted soil.  Do not use any soil with moisture crystals.


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## kaotik (May 6, 2014)

i personally HATE the rampant use of products like eagle 20, and how it's so quickly recommended
..if you have powdery mildew problems.. clean house and start fresh. don't keep putting a band-aid on a broken bone.

unless it's something you just cannot lose (and you're using it properly), leave the eagle 20 on the golf greens.  it's just a lazy-mans cover up, and i fear we're also gonna create some super-bug type pm. (and i'm not sold that it does no harm either)

i also don't recommend serenade for the opposite reason; it just doesn't work 



as for peat pucks, i couldn't disagree more. cloning is the one area i'm proud to boast about and quite confident to help others, as i can count on 1 hand how many clones i've lost the last few years with them.
i do like to let them dry out a bit after soaking them though, before i plop a clone in.


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## 7greeneyes (May 6, 2014)

Anything with osmocote. 

Miracle Grow products (except the Seedling Starter Soil, that's a keeper)

ph strips.


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## DrFever (May 6, 2014)

Haha    Don't use  Tin Foil   on  your walls for reflective material 
 Also i like to mention  few years back i  did a  documented  grow cause so many people had issues  using Miracle Grow  will see if i can find it again .. Any ways  it was a successful  grow and harvest ..  used the bottom feed technique,,,,, rather then   top water,  which  many  growers do 
causing to many nutes to release    either way  MG does work   prob not to be recommended  for the  first time grower ,


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## Hackerman (May 7, 2014)

I used MG for years. Just didn't have access to anything else. I had great crops. Using Fox Farm now.


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## MrTooHigh (May 7, 2014)

Glad to see people like this thread. When I couldn't find anything quite like it I decided why not, it can't hurt, in fact it can only help growers from making bad decisions.


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## orangesunshine (May 7, 2014)

You don't want to mix chemical based nutes with your organics


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## Locked (May 7, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> I used MG for years. Just didn't have access to anything else. I had great crops. Using Fox Farm now.





For every success story with MG there are more horror stories.

Yes you can grow with it but it's often not easy to do.  I have seen way more people struggle with it than succeed.   jmo


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## Grower13 (May 7, 2014)

well let's see....... it used to be LED's.. not anymore......... and I agree with Kaotik about the jiffy peats....... they work great for me nearly 100% of the time........  I haven't seen anyone tell you to don't use bag seeds.


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## Sherrwood (May 7, 2014)

Don't EVER use/accept/trade clones from a friend, neighbor, etc. etc.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 7, 2014)

Maybe this should be a "don't  do this because" thread.  Some new growers will not know why we should not use bagseed, why foil is bad, etc.  I don't know why not to accept clones from friends?

So, do not use pre-nuted soil because the proportions of N-P-K are not correct for cannabis.  WE also want to be able to control what the plant gets and administer the nutrients it need in the proportions it needs for the phase of growth it is in.  You have no control over prenuted soil.  In addition, it can be too hot for new seedlings and kill them.  It is generally best to buy nutrients formulated for marijuana vegetative growth and a different fertilizer formulated for the flowering phase.  

We do not use soil with moisture crystals in it because marijuana needs to go through periods of wet and dry to draws oxygen into the root system which needs oxygen to flourish.  Moisture crystals keep the soil continuously wet.


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## Sherrwood (May 7, 2014)

The reason you never accept clones from anyone is because of mites.
I personally have experience with this.
I also have seen others with the same problem, someone swears on their mothers grandmother their room is clean, yet shortly after your new clone comes home mites come with them.
Is this the standard? No, have I gotten clean good clones, Yes.
But that said, anyone that ever got mites understands , it's not worth it, buy seeds and start fresh.
Also, anyone new to growing won't know how to spot mites, if they know what mites are so this advise is pretty much standard issue for non experienced growers, and even many experienced ones as buying clones breaks the #1 rule, dont tell anyone.
Just my opinion


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## DrFever (May 7, 2014)

Well Sherrwood    it should be mentioned  that  any new green family  member ...... Be quarantined /treated and  monitored   before  bringing into your garden   Same goes for being steril your self  if visiting another grow or   if working  outside and around house  shower  and change prior  to entering  your grow space as  you can bring in unwanted  guests 

Here is another  one  if  bringing in fresh air into your grow room   make sure to  screen/ filter  your intake  vents


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## Hushpuppy (May 8, 2014)

Do not use "duct booster fans" for ventilation. They are worse than useless as they don't draw air. They are nothing more than a miniature box fan that allows air to bypass around it. For proper ventilation, you need to use centrifugal fans, and use them to pull air out of the grow space so that there is a vacuum (negative pressure) placed on the grow space. Then allow the incoming air to be pulled in by this vacuum through "passive venting at the bottom of the grow space.


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## 7greeneyes (May 8, 2014)

Miracle grow products (with the exception of the Seed Starter mix) are not engineered for MJ making it a not-so ideal medium to grow with as maority of their products have counterproductive amendments. i.e. osmocote or water crystals.

Osmocote: Time released ferts are not good for cannabis and the newb grower as you're not in control of when the plant uptakes nutrients and could easily cause nutrient lockout.

Ph strips have an error margin of .5% Nowhere near accurate enough for ppl starting out growing cannabis, aka newbs.


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## DrFever (May 8, 2014)

7greeneyes said:


> Miracle grow products (with the exception of the Seed Starter mix) are not engineered for MJ making it a not-so ideal medium to grow with as maority of their products have counterproductive amendments. i.e. osmocote or water crystals.
> 
> Osmocote: Time released ferts are not good for cannabis and the newb grower as you're not in control of when the plant uptakes nutrients and could easily cause nutrient lockout.
> 
> Ph strips have an error margin of .5% Nowhere near accurate enough for ppl starting out growing cannabis, aka newbs.



 First of all  what is needed  to grow  marijuana ,,,   Nitrogen, phosphorus,and Potassium      NPK ???? MJ needs high  Nitrogen  for growth in VEG  and as it enters flowering stage  Nitrogen is lowered and our phosphorus  levels  raises.
 As for MG  there are  different types 

 Speciality potting mix  with nutrients  designed for slower  growing  plants as well has more aggregate  for fast drainage  for plants  that dont like standing water ,
 General potting soils    for hanging plants  summer annuals, indoor plants with up to 6 months so they say of ferts in it 

 Moisture control potting mix   that  will hold as they say 30 percent more water then other  soils 
 choosing the right mix  of soils is just as important in any growth of any plant 
 But getting back to NPK ,,, and being totally honest  
Even  given the exact  NPK  of 2 different formulations  would they be the same ?????
NO they wouldn't because the NPK elements are bound up in molecular compounds with differing degrees of bio-availability. there  may be inorganic salts, oxides, chelated or colloidal minerals. Translation: your cannabis can use some compounds easier than others. 
Even if you look at different  manufacturers  you will see  that each one has a different  idea of what is best  right   lets see here 

GH   flora grow  for vegging  2 .1. 6 
 GH  for bloom      0.5.4

advanced nutrients 
Connoisseur Part A for vegging: 4-0-4

Connoisseur Part B for flowering: 1-5-6
So tell me  what is the best ???   right  but anyways 
 MG does work  don't kid your self   

http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q...&mid=434769AD8B840FA6B0B0434769AD8B840FA6B0B0

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jsTOYI6-K8I[/ame]


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## Rosebud (May 8, 2014)

Hamster Lewis said:


> For every success story with MG there are more horror stories.
> 
> Yes you can grow with it but it's often not easy to do.  I have seen way more people struggle with it than succeed.   jmo




I agree with Hamster. I use to use MG with roses... I would NEVER use it with cannabis.


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## Hushpuppy (May 9, 2014)

The problem with Miracle Grow is that it is a general "all purpose", hot nutrient fertilizer. MJ is an unusual plant that tends to be more like Herbs than weeds or general plants. MJ is very need specific, which is why it only grows in certain locations around the planet. That is not to say that you can't have success with MG nutrients, but it leaves way too much room for mistakes like nute burn, toxicity, and too moist soil. 

If you have animals, you don't feed them everything from the table to the yard. You feed them specific foods that are best for them to have. You could feed them a little of everything and most will do ok but they will not be able to maintain good health that way. The same is true for MJ.

This thread isn't for the highly experienced and knowledgeable growers to delve into for vast knowledge. While many experienced will look at this to see if there are any good little tidbits of information. This thread is more for the inexperienced growers who want to get around the learning curve and not suffer the same mistakes that the more learned growers have already gained the experience from suffering. The purpose off this thread is so new growers can benefit from our mistakes and not have to go through trial and error to get this knowledge.

Yes you can use Miracle Grow for MJ if you are highly experienced and know how to work the combinations of soil, water, and nutrients to keep the MG from doing more harm than good, but new growers don't need to suffer that kind of headache when there are so many solid nute brands that are specifically formulated for MJ. Yes there are variations of those as well, but that is to allow for the variations of MJ strains and variations of environment.


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## Rosebud (May 9, 2014)

That Hushpuppy keeps making sense.


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## Hackerman (May 9, 2014)

Nice post HP. I used MG for years and now I am using Fox Farm. I am hoping to see a noticeable difference.


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## 7greeneyes (May 9, 2014)

You definitely will Hackerman. Quality AND yield.

The guru that taught me how to grow was still using Miracle Grow up till a year ago after 25 years of growing(intermint5tenly using dfferent soils but moslty MG) now he uses Pro-Mix and has upped his game as well. I'm sure MG is great for non-MJ where you can kinda let it go but not with cannabis, it needs more attention.


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## MrTooHigh (May 11, 2014)

Update: wonder soil is just coco coir and perlite w/ worm castings. I think the yellow/brown was just the nutrients in the cotyledons being used up. I'm trying again with it since I found out its coco coir


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## SirGreenThumb (May 11, 2014)

I've used Miracle gro before and the best for cannabis as long as it doesn't have fungus gnats is African Violet MG soil. I've also grown bagseed in that same soil and produced this:
View attachment DSCN1663.jpg


View attachment IMG_20131117_164215160.jpg

I know the trim job sucked.. :laugh:


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## Locked (May 11, 2014)

I suck at trimming myself I ain't selling it so who cares? It smokes good.


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## SirGreenThumb (May 11, 2014)

Hamster Lewis said:


> I suck at trimming myself I ain't selling it so who cares? It smokes good.


Indeed.. I mean, I can do a lot better job, but man it was tiring.. The smoke of that plant was really really dank.. Like skunk dank.. But it came out of 1 of like 500 bagseed I have saved over the years.. I have some mid seeds I pulled from:
View attachment DSCN2065.jpg

I have a seed growing right now from my mids bag..


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## SirGreenThumb (May 11, 2014)

I should also point out about the moister while using peat pellets. When you soak them and make them expand you have to squeeze out the excess water otherwise it will be way to moist for just about anything you put in them..


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## Locked (May 11, 2014)

Nice...bag seed can be tricky. You always have to worry about Hermies showing up. Best case scenario it got cross pollinated and you get one of those gems.


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## giggy (May 11, 2014)

some times you have to use what you can get or what you can afford.


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## SirGreenThumb (May 11, 2014)

Yea, gonna grow this one that I have while my tent is on 18/6 and then switch and see what happens.. Or I may just use this medium size box that I have setup with some cfls inside to see what the sex is.. got to wait though till I can pull a clone.


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## SirGreenThumb (May 11, 2014)

giggy said:


> some times you have to use what you can get or what you can afford.


That looks good. was that bagseed also?


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## SirGreenThumb (May 11, 2014)

I know I used to usually only get red hair weed back in the day and usually kept the seeds. Was always good smoke.


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## giggy (May 11, 2014)

SirGreenThumb said:


> That looks good. was that bagseed also?



yes well kinda. it was seed from when i bread the pink bag seed last summer, but didn't have no pink. my add for the thread is never use molasses with suffer in it.


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## imburne (May 12, 2014)

Do not use lady bugs indoors to kill spider mites... Trust me, I know


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## giggy (May 12, 2014)

imburne said:


> Do not use lady bugs indoors to kill spider mites... Trust me, I know



here in the south they come in on there own. lol


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## TrollMaster5000 (May 12, 2014)

SirGreenThumb said:


> I've used Miracle gro before and the best for cannabis as long as it doesn't have fungus gnats is African Violet MG soil. I've also grown bagseed in that same soil and produced this:
> 
> I know the trim job sucked.. :laugh:



i have a pitcher plant and 2 venus flytraps that take care of occasional gnats  

:dancing:  fun to watch the flytraps in action too  i go around trying to catch fly's to feed them


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## TrollMaster5000 (May 12, 2014)

a dish with apple cider vinegar  will trap gnats and help knock the numbers down if you're having a problem with them


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## Sherrwood (May 12, 2014)

TrollMaster5000 said:


> a dish with apple cider vinegar  will trap gnats and help knock the numbers down if you're having a problem with them




Thanks, didnt know that.


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## imburne (May 12, 2014)

Good video, haha!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=on1ubP2CTRs


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## 7greeneyes (May 12, 2014)

And *bazzinga!* ....again. :rofl:


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## SirGreenThumb (May 12, 2014)

giggy said:


> here in the south they come in on there own. lol


Ain't that the truth. haha

They come in my place they are gonna meet the business end of my shop vac.


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## skullcandy (May 12, 2014)

for indoors i would avoid ff nutes not that they don't work but they stink something awful out doors the smell is not that bad


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## 7greeneyes (May 14, 2014)

you think FF stinks, try EarthJuice...lol...


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