# Sog and 12/12 from seed



## BROMAN

I got a great yield from my first grow but, i had some troubles and ended up veg for 8 weeks. The potency wasn't high enough and i know that is due to the troubles and less than optimal conditions.  I've reviewed my setup and methods and made some improvements. This next time I'm going to try 12/12 from seed  with three stains in a 12 plant sog, using 1 1/2 gal Mass Producer coco buckets.  Does anyone have experience with sog and/or 12/12 from seed?


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## The Hemp Goddess

I have tried 12/12 from seed more than once and have never had very good results.  If you look, you will see that very few people do 12/12 from seed and many of those are new growers who discover that this is not a good method and go to a normal veg period.  One of the things to keep in mind is that if this was a good growing method, many people would be using it, but no one does...okay someone, but very few people and like I said a lot of them are new growers looking for weed fast.  But it just doesn't quite work that way.

IMO, the first and foremost reason is that the plant is not going to flower until it is sexually mature, regardless of the light cycle.  So what this means is that during the 4 weeks or so that it is under 12/12 it is going to be deprived of 12 hours of light a day that it needs.  Because it is deprived of 12 hours of light a day that it would love to have for vegetative growth, it sits in the dark for 12 hours wondering where the light is and stretches.  Most 12/12 from seed I have seen shows spindly small plants whose yield is counted in grams, not ounces.

If you do want to grow like this with no veg period, you really should get clones.  While I still do not believe this is a good practice--I believe plants should have a vegging period to take full advantage of their potential--clones are ythe same biological age as the plant they are taken from and  because they are sexually mature, they will flower while still very small.

The bottom line is that if you had trouble giving your plants a normal veg period (many people veg 8 weeks)


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## vostok

the west and their GREED! knows no bounds and the same for dysfunctional weed growers are even on here, these guys slip from the same stool as those who attempt to grow 24/7 non stop in their need to increase yield, offering all paltry excuses, and when it goes wrong, which in invariably does, then turn to the www. for advice and correction, hence the popularity of many weed sites.
Why can't nobbies grow 'normal' weed plants, why must some members be so anxious to have weed as much and as soon as possible, its dysfunctional either way you look at it
..as sign of things to come perhaps..?

ps get the clones


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## Locked

Why would you want to deprive your plants of 12 hours of light everyday while in Veg?  You will only get lanky plants. They won't become sexually mature any faster.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I have vegged my plants 24/7 for more years than I can remember.  I always think of 18/6 as "old school" for those that still do not know that cannabis is in a class of plants that does not need a dark period.  There is no benefit to a 6 hour dark period--the plant just stretches and ultimately produces less.  It is not the chase for yield, it is making the best out of what we have indoors.  There is absolutely no reason not to veg 24/7 unless heat gets too great during the day during high heat periods in summer.


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## vostok

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I have vegged my plants 24/7 for more years than I can remember.  I always think of 18/6 as "old school" for those that still do not know that cannabis is in a class of plants that does not need a dark period.  There is no benefit to a 6 hour dark period--the plant just stretches and ultimately produces less.  It is not the chase for yield, it is making the best out of what we have indoors.  There is absolutely no reason not to veg 24/7 unless heat gets too great during the day during high heat periods in summer.



....and once gain I must ask why, show me/us the proof the advantages, the academic observations, if you got none, at least direct us in a positive and educational manner, in the advantages that 24/7 burning lights and wasting your utilities power, can possibly bring,

and without risking hijacking the members post, your personal dis/advantages  to growing from 12x12 from seed? ...thanks


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## Dman1234

vostok said:


> ....and once gain I must ask why, show me/us the proof the advantages, the academic observations, if you got none, at least direct us in a positive and educational manner, in the advantages that 24/7 burning lights and wasting your utilities power, can possibly bring,
> 
> and without risking hijacking the members post, your personal dis/advantages  to growing from 12x12 from seed? ...thanks



Its really simple MJ falls into a class of plants that do not require darkness in veg, so 24 hour lights are the way too go. Unless day time temps are an issue.

MJ plants do not flower until sexually mature no matter what the light schedule. So why deny them 12 hours of light while they mature.
Scientific enough for ya? 

Why not provide evidence her comments are incorrect?


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## The Hemp Goddess

Dman said it. And I said it in my 2nd sentence--Cannabis is in a class of plant that does not need a dark period. Period. Nothing else really needs to be said. But I also have decades of growing behind me and I personally have found that plants vegged 24/7 as opposed to 18/6 are fuller bushier plants with less intermodal spacing.

I see no advantages at all with 12/12 from seed.  Going 12/12 from seed generally results in small spindly plants that yield very little.  It also deprives you of the opportunity to take clones as the plant is usually too small to take cuts from.  The plant will not flower until it is sexually mature, so depriving them of 12 hours of light a day they need for veg is, IMO, detrimental all the way around.  If you want to go to 12/12 with no veg, you really should be using clones.


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## WeedHopper

Why waste good seed. Let her Vegg Bro.,,,and she loves 24hrs of light.


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## Locked

It is definitely not a waste of power since Cannabis does not need a dark period, as has been stated a couple times in this thread already.  What I love about indoor growing is that we get to tweak things and give our plants the best opportunities for maximum growth.


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## BROMAN

I certainly understand where everyone is coming from and i thank you for responding.  Isee many of the most friendly and respected have replied.  I watched buddogmutt catch flack for his short veg times and sog experiments and it seems the opinions are unchanged.  Would  there be anyone on mp who has had sog and/or 12/12 fs success?
Thg, what you've said about anorexic, runty plants is echoed elsewhere but, it seems that success is strain dependent.  From what I see, once you have a strain or strains that respond well 1-3 oz isn't unheard of.  Clones can be taken in the first 2 weeks.  If taken later couldnt you just root under 12/12 ?  Oh and greedy ! Yes you got me.  I want the most from my setup and i want it as quick as possible.  Others are finishing as quickly as 9-11 weeks.  I will manipulate the plant accordingly .  I learned that here.  And no disrespect to any of my mp heroes.  Mp is home. Thats  why i ask here.


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## The Hemp Goddess

BROMAN said:


> I certainly understand where everyone is coming from and i thank you for responding. Isee many of the most friendly and respected have replied. I watched buddogmutt catch flack for his short veg times and sog experiments and it seems the opinions are unchanged. Would there be anyone on mp who has had sog and/or 12/12 fs success?
> Thg, what you've said about anorexic, runty plants is echoed elsewhere but, it seems that success is strain dependent. From what I see, once you have a strain or strains that respond well 1-3 oz isn't unheard of. Clones can be taken in the first 2 weeks. If taken later couldnt you just root under 12/12 ? Oh and greedy ! Yes you got me. I want the most from my setup and i want it as quick as possible. Others are finishing as quickly as 9-11 weeks. I will manipulate the plant accordingly . I learned that here. And no disrespect to any of my mp heroes. Mp is home. Thats why i ask here.


 
You talk about "others" who are getting good results.  Who are these people?  I have learned to take things with a grain of salt unless I am communicating with people that I know their grows.  No one here ( sand we have some outstanding growers) have been successful with 12/12 from seed.  

You cannot change the fact that the plant will not start to flower until it is sexually mature.  If people are harvesting at 9-11 weeks, I cannot help but believe that they harvested prematurely.   I also would be surprised to see 3 oz off a plant that finishes in 9-11 weeks. 

Also, be cautious with claims that sound too good.  I tried it because I thought it sounded good, too.  But there are reasons not to do it and, IMO, it is certainly not making the most out of your space.  Ultimately, I believe that you end up with less over a given period, say a year.


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## WeedHopper

Yur gonna get a small small plant, ,thats what yur gonna get. But,,ill be more then glad to watch.


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## snugglebud

More than one way to skin a cat guys. Don't be close minded to other methods of growing.

I've had plenty of experience growing 12/12 from seed. Don't mind all the misinformation in this thread.  Plants will show sex in 21 days, strain dependent of course. You can definitely have a mature crop in 11 weeks and get an ounce per plant handy, if not more when you have it dialled in correctly. 

Years ago people were laughed at for using LEDS and ridiculed for growing autos. Now everbody is at it even though these are not "optimal" ways to grow either.

Will it yield as much as a plant that was vegged for longer, of course not but by the time you take everything into consideration there's probably not a whole lot in it. It's a very legitimate method of growing and can be a more suitable option for some people.

I wish you the best of luck on your adventure and eagerly await your updates.


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## Locked

There is no way a plant will show sex in 21 days from germination. That is not being closed minded, that is being realistic.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Years ago autos and LEDs were laughable.  LEDs _were_ substandard and autos _did_ produce grams, not ounces, of low quality weed.  Both LEDs and autos have improved.  And you are comparing apples and oranges--improvements in genetics and grow equipment is not like trying to change the biology of the plant.   Very very few strains (if any) are going to show sex at 21 days from seed.  And few strains are actually done in 8 weeks.  We are not being closed-minded.  We are trying to tell Broman the facts about going 12/12 from seed. 

And when you look at the time you "save", it is hardly worth exchanging a harvest of grams vs a harvest of ounces.  A good 24/7 veg for 6 weeks and then an adequate flowering period is only a few weeks more and everything is simply better if the plants are given a chance to veg.  So, 3 weeks more to get probably double or triple the harvest....no contest IMO.


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## snugglebud

How ignorant you both are, I've seen them show sex in as little as 14 days. There's plenty of 12/12 grow journals out there which will back that up.

Keep your heads in the sand and keep singing la,la,la,la,la


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## Dman1234

snugglebud said:


> How ignorant you both are, I've seen them show sex in as little as 14 days. There's plenty of 12/12 grow journals out there which will back that up.
> 
> Keep your heads in the sand and keep singing la,la,la,la,la



Ahhhhh ha ha ha ha your joking right?  talk about ignorant.


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## Locked

Most Autos won't even show sex in 14 days.  So you seem to be the ignorant one snugglebutt.


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## The Hemp Goddess

snugglebud said:


> How ignorant you both are, I've seen them show sex in as little as 14 days. There's plenty of 12/12 grow journals out there which will back that up.
> 
> Keep your heads in the sand and keep singing la,la,la,la,la


 
We do not have our heads in the sand.  We have tried this and it did not work.  If you believe everything you see on You Tube you are in for some rude awakening.  Few people will admit failure--they make their grows look like they want them too.  Plants grown from seed do not show sex in 14 days.  If you think that we are all the stupid ones, prove us wrong....

Most everyone who grows has tried this--wouldn't it be wonderful 12/12 from seed.  Yes it would be wonderful...if it worked.  This is another one of those things that if it worked well, everyone would be doing it.  It just doesn't.


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