# Any help appreciated...learn from my mistakes



## growfox (Sep 28, 2008)

I hope you like reading...

My new job is basically medical marijana cultivation...legally.  My friend and I basically rely on decent harvests to support ourselves right now. Unfortunatly, our grows have been going south with serious problems across the entire spectrum of the growing elements such as temperature, nutrients, etc. which I will explain after I give you a run down of what we are running. 

Afgani bubba kush is our strain of choice and its a pretty strong strain as far as I can tell.  We use Ebb and Grow systems for everything. If you do not know what this is, then I will explain and briefly as possible: There are 3 major parts- Resivior, Brain, and buckets. The Resivior obviously holds water and nutrients, The 'brain' controls when and how long the watering cycles go are, the buckets get flooded to the same level as the brain bucket. This wasnt our method of choice but circumstances pushed us into using ebb and grow, mostly beucase of its reliable track record. We have 3 rooms, all about 9-11' square. 

Room 1 is our veg and clone room. The room has 1 24000 btu air conditioner, 1 1000w HPS light with unbrella hood which is about 3 feet from the plants. There are 80 buckets in this room connected to a 100 gallon resivior. We also have a 1000w MH light on standby just incase they need more light for whatever reason. The clones are now done 2 different ways: Rockwool cubes and ez-clone. Rockwool cubes have solid track record so far, however they seem to take longer than the ez-clone. The easy clone is faster but is a little more risky beucase everything has to be in perfect working order or else you risk dead plants in less than 24 hours. We use shultz root compound. No nutients are added to the clones water except for a little root compound mixed with the water beucase the sprinklers seem to wash the compound away too quickly and the ratio of water to plants is pretty high. We have 1 12" floresent light per 15-20 clones either extremely close or actually touching some of them(ambient temp permitting). 

Room 2 and room 3 are nearly identical except for size and number. They are both flowering rooms. One room currently has 4x 1000w HPS lights(soon to be 6) with 6" Sun Systems hoods, the other has 9x 1000w HPS lights with silver star 6" hoods(only 6 are running right now though). Both rooms have about a 8:1 ratio of plants to hoods/lights. The two rooms share a 100 gallon resivior right now beucase we were struggling to find the space to put the two 50 gal resivior. This was probably a mistake as I will explain soon. 

Here is our nutient list for each stage:

Clones: No Nutients(a little rooting compound)
Veg: 1 cup of miracle grow powder, 100 drops of superthrive, 2-3 cups of liquid vitamin B, 1/2 cup of maxigrow for veg, 1/2 a cap of miracle grow liquid for veg. 
Flower: Humbolts Master A and B(highly recommended), after 2-3 weeks- kool Bloom, a sprinkle of northern lights, a little bit of advanced nutrients overdrive(maybe not this time, as I will explain soon. 

Our normal ambient temerature outside during the day is 80-100 F, while night is about 50-60 F, 
Temeratures in each room stay: 64-70F if everything is working correctly.




I think I covered just about everything. When I arrived here, his flower was fatally covered with spider mites. We ended up overhauling the first flower room(the second flower room didnt even exist). While we were trying to balance our jobs with getting the flower room finished, the veg room was overgrowing big time. By the time we finished, our veg was about 2 months old and in desperate need of flowering. 6 weeks later, we pulled and came out with 2 lbs from the 24 plants that survived(we pulled early due to a miscalculation on the dates, plus i was still learning so I didnt know any better). Unfortuantly, the 40 plants we had in veg were overgrown again by over 2 weeks so we put them into flower asap. We took clones and expanded our veg to 80 buckets in preparation for the 3rd flower room we were building, unfortuantly we only had about 20 clones ready to go into veg, plus the 8 left over from the previous veg. So 2 weeks later I took as many clones as possible and put them in rockwoll cubes and planted them in 3 different stages until all 80 pots were filled. r half of our plants were ready to go in and half were still vegging. There was a problem though, our electrican didnt show up until 2 weeks later and then didnt actually finish the job until 3 weeks later so we were stuck with over sized plants against, and as if this wasnt bad enough, our flower got tip burn from over feeding them humbolts hardener, which also left a nasty residue all over the resivior. Some didnt make it, plus there was still much to do in that room. After 3 days of nonstop construction, the room was ready and we were filling up our resivior, but our optimisim was short lived when we noticed the resivior was leaking(keep in mind its 100G) and this is a 2 story house. After some fierce drying, and scratching our heads trying to figure out how to stop the leak, we tried expanding foam, some kind of glue sealant, even tried a different resifoir but it had the same problem.  Finally, after nagging to my friend, who knows more than I do about growing, he finally decided to try my origianal idea of lining the entire resiviour with a sheet of 6 mil plastic. It worked for about 1 day and decreased the leak to a drip, but it was still too much to just leave alone, so I put a smaller piece of 6 mil poly down, then a large piece that covered the entire resivior, then I put another smaller piece, then another larger piece. Finally the leak was completely gone. Im not trying to bore you to death about our trials and errors, I just thought it was important that you got the whole picture of what the problems were and how we fixed it. So now our room is finally set up and we begin transferring all 72 plants to the flower room. This went pretty smoothly, but then we had to plant new clones in veg and this was the first time we tried planing ezclones and half of them ended up dying, I am guessing beucase they didnt have the rockwool cubes to lean on for water and only a few of them had roots long enough to touch the bottom of the buckets to get the water it needed. So again, we were short on veg. And this is where we are now.

We ended up pulling our flower that got tip burn and so far we are at about 1/2 lb for 32 plants, we are still cutting up though so lets hope that the tip burn didnt hurt our plants too badly.

All the information at the begging of this post is what everything is at right now. I hope that some of you experts will take the time to read this and give some feed back as to what you would do to improve the set up such as different nutrients, temperatues, lighting, etc.

I will put some pictures up if I get approval from my friend...hes asleep right now though.


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## NorCalHal (Sep 28, 2008)

Big Show.

Can you explain a little more about the rooms??

What kind of Exhaust and Intake air do you have going on? What size out, what size in? Passive or fan?

Are the lights aircooled? How are you cooling them? What size Blower? Are you usuing insulated ducting?

Why an A/C in the Veg room, better off in the flower rooms.

Your Res leaking needs fixed ASAP. Get a new res. You should never have to "fix" your res.

The mites HAVE TO BE CONTROLLED, or you are just pissing up a tree. Treat your Veg room EVERY 3-5 days forever, if you see bugs or not. Diligance is key.

As far as your nuits, Ditch the add a little this, add a little that. Use a SIMPLE 2 or 3 part ONLY, until you get your rooms dialed, then play with nuit additives if you wish. I perfer GH 3 part. I would never use "humbolt" as they are more geared for outdoor then indoor hydro.

EZcloners do clone faster, but I don't like the "stick with roots" clones that they make. Plain old rockwool cloning is your best bet. Just plan ahead, and give yourself plenty of time before you harvest to have new girls ready. Eaiser said then done.

Pics of the system would be cool also.


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## Funkfarmer (Sep 28, 2008)

You really shoudnt have to fix your res but if you have to, i would use some fiberglass mesh and 2 part resin and hardener.


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## growfox (Sep 28, 2008)

Spider mites are gone, which I should note that this is the reason we keep our rooms so cold is beucase its 10x harder for them to produce offspring that survive in cold climates. We might start pushing the temp up to 70 in the future if we think we can get bigger buds out of it but for now, we are playing it safe. We currently dip the leafs of our freshly cut clones in a very very watered down insecticidal soap. After they grow and are done with vegging, we spray them down with more insectisidal poision that is very easy on the plants, then we transfer them to flowering. I know its next to impossible to get rid of all your spidermites, but our cleanup process is pretty rigorous and if we have any spidermites left, it is probably only a few. I havent seen a single web in our crop since I started cutting up.

Cooling setup:

Most of the rooms have the same basic set up but there are some differences:

Room 1: Closet had all fixtures removed and a 12" hole put in the celing wall as close to the middle of the attic as we could get it so that the roof wouldnt block air passage. The surrounding fiberglass insulation was removed to allow more air flow.  The closet is separated from the rest of the room by 2 layers of poly, 1x 6mil poly, 1x black and white 3 mil poly with the white facing into the veg room.  A 12" 1020cfm centrifuge based fan is used to pull air. The air intake comes from the bathroom window which is always open. The problem with this is that the bathroom window is about 25 feet away from the  1020 cfm. blower so we have to run ducting from point A to point B. This was done to aviod suspicion. The room has windows but we also make a lot of noise, espeically with a 24k btu air conditioner running constantly. By the way, Dont ever get Haier AC's, at least not the 24k btu model, we have gone through 3 of those and 2 more might die anytime, we hear rattling inside both of them like its going to fall apart. Gorilla Tape(similar to duct tape, but stronger) is used to make the poly air tight. We also have a 6 mil door that is pegged up around the entry way except for a small flap to allow people to come in and out. 

Room 2: The closet in this room is completely different from the other two rooms. The other two rooms have a wide closet that would have the roller doors. This room has a normal door entry to the closet which has about 2 feet that is like a little hallway which leads to a 5x4' closet. We had to get kinda creative about the air conditioner with this room beucase we needed to have access in and out of the room so built a "bridge" to hold the air conditioner up about 3-4 feet off the ground so that we could walk through. So far this hasnt caused any problems except when we had to replace the air conditioner in that room, it was a pain trying to slide a 150 pound ac unit into an area just bearly bigger than the unit and nothing was lubricated so we were fighting against gravity and friction the entire time. There are two large holes cut through the back of the closet to allow air to flow from the room behind it(the laundry room) which has a window. The air is pulled from a 12" 1020cfm centrifuge fan just like the other room. This room has 4/6 lights so we added a squirll fan to the end of the ducting on the lights which pulls most of the hot air pretty well. This room is pretty well in tune, the AC is big enough to keep it at 64F no problems. 

Room 3: Has the same closet setup as room 1 but the closet shares the laundry room on the other side so we pull air from the same window and the air floting in the hallways. We ended up cutting 3 large holes to maximize cooling. There are two AC's in this room beucaes it will eventually be running 9 lights. 2 of the holes are cut behind the ACs to allow it to travel away from the ac and then get sucked back up into the closet by the 12" centrifuge fan. We ended up connecting a 6" centrifuge fan to the ducting that runs through the lights but we came to the conclusion that this wouldnt be enough to cool them down fast enough so we are acutally looking to invest in a larger one once we get paid again. 

As far as the resivior- At the time we were broke and couldnt afford a new resivoir, plus our local hydro place doesnt sell anything that large, they only have the ebb n grow 55 gallon. Even if we separated the rooms into two smaller resiviors, the 72 bucket room is way too much for a 55 gallon resivior, so we are looking at running a second brain unit which would add up to about a $500 investment or we just keep the resivior which seems to be working okay. Plus we just ran out of room, we dont have any space big enough to another 55 gallon resivior except in room 2, but that wouldnt solve the problem with room 3 having 72 buckets and only having enough space for one resivior.


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## growfox (Oct 8, 2008)

I posted a bunch of pictures in my user profile. I hope this link works:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Gallery/member.php?uid=12664&protype=1


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## Tater (Oct 8, 2008)

Why not just use a large industrial garbage can as your reservoir?  Cheap, and available everywhere.  Also if I read the above correctly you are venting directly into your attic.  This is a HUGE no no.  Unless you plan on burning that house when you are done you need to change this now.  Before the weather changes and it gets colder or you will have problems like you have never seen with condensation and mold.  You should be venting DIRECTLY outside.

One other thing, in your first post you claim to be legal and legit and in the next you talk about stealth?  Whats up with that, why hide if you don't need to.  Just secure the house properly OR even better grow in a commercial space with industrial wiring and concrete floors and drains.


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## andy52 (Oct 8, 2008)

thought the same thing tater


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## NorCalHal (Oct 8, 2008)

IMHO, even tho some of us say "legit" and it IS legal in our state, FEDLEO is ALLWAYS a concern. That is why, even in Cali, Legit "State Legal" ops are underground. Even in cites such as Oakland, 100 patient collective grows still have to be stealth.

Anyway, I'm going to play along.

First, it is not next to impossible to get rid of the mites. 1 mite is too many.
Dilligance is the KEY to solving pest problems. Bigger grows, this is MUCH harder to do. You HAVE to spray for bugs regardless if you see one or not. This HAS to be done from the time you get your clones/seedlings. And keep spraying 2 weeks into 12/12. Every 3-5 days. Like Nike said "Just do it"

With venting to the attic, it can be done, BUT get your butt up in the attic and pull that ducting to the House Gables. Or, you can get a Gable fan, which I have done, and that works as well.

As far as your intake in room 1, 25' is a long run. You should get a 6" fan to help push air in.
Get these to control your fan speeds and balance out the room.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=43060

Lets talk about your lights.

First off, they are too high imho. They need to be closer.

I see they are ducted, but you say they are cooled by a squirlcage? A squirlcage will only cool 1000w.
To save on your AC's, you need to properly cool those lights man. They look like 6" ducted hoods? If so, a 6" can fan for every 4 lights will work.
And, on the ends of your lights that connect to a new row of lights, use a 90degree elbow and use self tapping screws to attach them to the lights. This way, it will make straight runs of ductwork from light to light, no bending of the ducting. That saves a couple of dgrees right there alone.

If you get those lights cooled right, and exhaust all that hot air, your a/c's will not have to work near as hard to cool the room.

IMHO, DWC for bigger shows is a PITA. Flood tables rock.


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## growfox (Oct 8, 2008)

California state law under proposistion 420 says that if you have a perscription or if you are considered a caregiver for others who have a perscription, then you can legally grow weed until you are a weed corporation. 

Federal law states that under no circumstances are you to grow any weed what-so-ever. 

Obviously local police won't do anything except maybe harass you and if your operation is too big, ocassionaly rip out all of your plants and dispose of them(meaning they dry them and smoke them when no one is looking). Normally this is only done if your operation is linked to other illegal activities such as illegal gun possesion, narcotics, etc. 

Feds will raid your house and destroy it - short of setting it aflame - if they find out you are growing. This is why we try to stay low key. DEA and other organizations basically have an 'out of site out of mind' mentality. If you dont ever show up on their radar except occassionally for small stuff that is covered under prop. 420 anyways, then they normally wont bother you. Its too much paper work and resouces and is unrealistic for them to prosecute everyone they come accross. 

Our operation is as sqeeky clean as we can make it. All of our state paperwork is in order to protect us from local authorities mistakenly raiding us, we even have an affit davit that has been notarized stateing exactly what we are doing. We have no assocations with thugs or people of questionable character. We have one gun that we have not touched in months and is only for protection because this house was actually broken into before we moved here. Our entire operation is as sterile and clean as possible. We run a non-profit organization which recievies donations. I know it sounds like a scam but we really only sell to people who have their cards and need it. 

I realize this is a little longwinded but you have to understand that even if it was federally legal, would you really want to take the chance of all those stoners out there taking one too many puffs and deciding tonight is a good night to break into the local grow shop?  There are many risks with what we do, espeically beucase of the size of what we do. 

And let me ask you, do you tell every single person you meet where you live and that you grow?

Lastly, to comment on not venting into the attic, I will take it into consideration, but you are talking about a good 30 hours of work. Ive actually been trying to talk my friend, who is pretty much considered the boss, to buy 2 large centrifuges to shoot air from one side of the attic to the other so that there is a steady temerature and humidity, plus it will increase overall air flow.


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## growfox (Oct 8, 2008)

Sorry hal, i walked over your post a litte bit, I was replying at the same time you were so I didnt see your post.

Lights were raised after the first few days beucase the plants were in shock and they were still recovering, but thanks for reminding me though, ill take a look at them tonight and see if any group of them is ready for the lights to be lowered.

We did end up putting a 6" centrifuge on the lights and bought a second one a few days later becuase the air flow wasnt what we wanted it to be. Right now that centrifuge is being used on our carbon filter becuase our old drying room was getting too hot and it made the buds taste like wood so we ended up moving our drying to our kitchen where its all tile and easy to clean up, but we were worried about smell so the carbon filter took the priority with the centrifuge. We are about to cut up so we will move the centrifuge at the front of the duct to suck in air, and the other end to blow it out. 

Our attic is tiny. This house is built a little oddly, its not nearly as pointy as most homes and the roof lays almost on top of the celing. I can probably fit myself in by the central ac, and that is about it. We would need a child to manuver around the rest of the attic. We might be able to do it from outside, but that might look a little suspicous and the owner of this house is super paraniod and doesnt want us doing anything that looks suspicous. I will carfully consider our options, but I honestly dont think that running ducting will be realistic.

Also, we have 2 regulators, exactly the one you listed. When we get more money, I will look into getting more centrifuges, but we have to also be careful about power consumption, not so much that it costs over $2k/month now but we have a 200amp limit on our power draw or else we risk a power outage in this entire grid plus our operation would be exposed for the whole world to see.  Adding too many centrifuges that run 4-9A each greatly increases the chances of something going wrong with the power draw.


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## Tater (Oct 8, 2008)

If you maintain good steady airflow through your attic you might be ok but I would still be concerned about your insulation collecting the condensation that WILL (not might will form, I'm a roofer by trade, this is what I do)  form and drain to the roof line forming maybe just mildew and white mold but most likely black mold which will make the house worthless when it starts coming through your walls.  Tell the owner about that and see what he says.  Ducting won't cost you more than 50 bucks.  Go buy some flex duct, run it into the attic, chop a hole in the roof and install a roof jack.  Hell pop a few of them in, most older homes could use the extra ventilation.  Remove the original roofjack or whirly bird that up there and replace it to (they are cheap) so it looks like you were doing a reno and not installing vents for a grow op.  Secondly if you are worried about your amperage draw you can rewire your grow room to use 220, this will halve the amp draw created by your ballasts.

And lastly, I'll bow out on the whole legit not legit thing, if you live in the states than I understand.  No I do not tell everyone where I live and where I grow but thats because I am far from being legit and if the conservative government gets voted back in in my country I could be up poo creek for some time but thats besides the point.

Good luck man and take that venting into your attic bit seriously, it can lead to major problems, and astronomical repair costs in a very very short time.  Not to mention it could also tragically result in your death, worst case scenario.


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## NorCalHal (Oct 8, 2008)

By the way Tater, thanks for the info on the attic vent. Honestly, I just ran the duct to a gable or use a gable fan strickly because I didn't wwant hot air to just sit. I never thought about the damage and condensation. But, I do go up in the attic time to time to check on things, and I have never really seen condnsation. I wonder if it is where you live you might see it more.
You tottaly make sense, so I will be more aware of that. Thanks.

I understand your take on the whole "legit or not legit" thing man. What can I say. Our own Attorney General just relesed a directive to all California Law enforment on how to handle MMJ and what is/is not allowed. If u got time, fun reading. This is the actual directive from the State.

http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n1601_medicalmarijuanaguidelines.pdf

It allows for individuals to grow for a "collective" of patients.  Page 8 is where it gets fun.
I think you are going to see alot more threads like this one.


So when u moving?


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## lyfr (Oct 8, 2008)

> ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/pre...guidelines.pdf


great info NCH,  they really need to define "mature plant".  I have heard it's _over 12" tall or budding_  but not "officially".


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## Tater (Oct 9, 2008)

NorCalHal your welcome, least I can do with how much I've taken from the site.  The biggest problem is when you have a difference in ambient temps and the air you pump into the attic.  Plus you need to remember the increased humidity that will be in the air you vent from your grow room and when this air meets the cooler air outside it will condensate.  Simply circulating air in your attic may be enough depending on the temperature difference's being encountered but it just isn't optimal.  Keep an eye on it though and solve any problems the moment they arise or they will quickly get away from you.  

As far as me moving that may or may not happen.  Depends on what life throws my way but if I'm ever out in your neck of the woods I'll let you know.   

Peace man, keep er green.


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## growfox (Oct 9, 2008)

Any thoughts on the nutes I am using? This has been our biggest concern. We want to push the ppms right now beucase they are looking much healthier. They have fan leafs that almost look like plastic. 

What about temperature? If we can control the spidermites, should we bump it up to 66-70F? What is the general rule for fans? I know that air circulation is critical but is there a point where its too much?

Any other helpful tips for secondary nutrients such as Kool Bloom?

Ive heard that you shoudl lower the light as far as you can to the point where if you put your hand level with the plant, your hand should be able to take the heat without any problems. Is this a good rule? 

This crop is very important to us beucase if it is large enough, it should give us enough profit to invest in an ecosystem. We wanted to try this out from the beginning beucase of its effeciency and potential yeild but we are renting this house from another grower and he wanted us to use ebb and grow.


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## growfox (Nov 9, 2008)

Its been  about 2 months since my last post, I thought I would give all you guys who helped me out an update.

Our first grow in our 9 light room was sucessful. After we lowered the lights as you suggessted, the plants began making mega buds and THC. Infact, one of our colas was bigger than any other cola we have had in any other grow. After about 24 hours of drying, and trimming the fan leaves, it weighed in at 35.6 grams.  Im sure for some strians, this isnt a big deal but for our particular strain, that single cola has a street value of about $900. :holysheep: Unfortunatly we do not sell on the street, but that is still freakn amazing considering 2 months ago we thought we were going to lose all of our plants. 

BTW, another haier air conditioner broke, we had to buy another new one.  STAY AWAY from haier.

Also, on a side note...I am also pretty sure that the cola weighed more than any of my friends colas from all of his previous grows who has been growing practically his whole life(his father grew as well). 

I will post pictures soon. Thanks agian everyone. :aok:


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## andy52 (Nov 10, 2008)

this is an exciting thread here.i wish i could grow tha big.not for my self but for others.as michigan just passed th mmj act.i have several people that have asked me about growing for them.i just do not know how i would charge them.i know the elec,nutes and all the extra equipment would cost plenty.i would love to be able to help others that are not able to grow physically themselves.i also would not wish to make a profit,just pay my expenses.how would one figure this out?alot of these people i know are not financially able to pay large bills for their mj.and i would not want to make it hard on them.them again i could not afford not to charge something.any ideas on this would be appreciated.


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## growfox (Nov 10, 2008)

Pictures, i tried uploadng for my first time so hopefully it will work...

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Gallery/showgallery.php/cat/500/ppuser/12664


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## growfox (Nov 13, 2008)

Need your guys/gals help again. 

My leaves have gone from green to dark green/purpleish to dark green/purple almost to black. It is only the top leaves or the ones directly hitting the light. I cut most of them off partially beucase I didnt know what was going on, but mostly beucase I wanted the lower leaves to get light so the hairs would start to brown out. 

We are in our 9th week of flower but quite a few buds still have white hairs so we are leaving them in there until they are done.

PPMs have been checked, Light intensity is not too bright. Our nutes are Advanced Sensi Boom A and B with Kool Bloom. PPMs are at 1500 right now, they were lower before I just added.  Water has been emptied almost once per week.

Anyone know what it might be?


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## smokingjoe (Nov 13, 2008)

temp, strain or potassium


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## growfox (Nov 13, 2008)

Temperature has been pretty steady and this is the first time ive seen this strain do it after 4 grows so I assume its not enough potassium. Im not sure if we have anything high in potassium, but ill look at the labels and check it out.

EDIT

I couldnt find any, but it doesnt matter, the lower buds finally browned out on most of the plants so I am just going to pull them after I get my friends approval. Thanks.


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## NewbieG (Nov 14, 2008)

Nice looking nug growfox. put some pics up of the buds with the black leaves. That has to look incredible.


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## growfox (Nov 14, 2008)

ok wow, some of the plants look way brighter in the picture, at least the underside of them. I think  the HPS lights are making the colors look a little different. I had the flash on, so thats probably why. They look a lot stranger in real life.

Our veg isnt ready to be transplanted so we are letting our flower stay under the lights as long as possible. These plants are almost in their 10th week of flowering which is why they look so old..beucase they are. The last few buds are bearly hitting their 70% brown hairs anyways so at least we are getting something from our patience. 

While im here, I might as well update on the rest of our situation.

We will probably pull our flower in the next day or two, its really up in the air right now beucase we dont have anything to put in there yet. 

Here is the no-no's we did with our veg and why its not ready:

1. Somehow, dont ask me how, but somehow our friend gave us clones that were in flowering. Most of them are not vegging properly, some of them have not even grown. We were going to pull all of them and replace them but we were already short on plants, thats why we had to borrow some from our friend.

2. Our 1000w HPS light was not centered evenly over all the plants beucase we wanted to make sure the freshly planted babies didnt die and we installed an MH light but my friend never told me to turn it on for fear that it would fry our clones.  Plus most of the plants were growing so we didnt realize until further down the road that there was a problem. 

3. Our veg was planted at different times. 20 of them were left over from our 32 bucket flower transplant. We planted another 40 or so clones a few days later, some from our friend(the flowered ones) and then we planted the other 20 or so another 3-5 days later. 3 days ago we came to the conclusion that 3 or so werent growing properly so we(well not 'we', morel like 'I') switched to 24/7 vegging, moved the light closer to the young'ens, pulled the 6" ducting that pulls air from outside to the back of the room so that air would be pulled from the doorway to the back of the veg giving us unlimited co2(our temps stay around 80 max plus we have the ac). 

So far our efforts have shown some improvement in our veg's growth, but we are looking at at least another week of veg before they are ready to go into the next room. 

On a happy note, our 32 plant flowering is running smoothly. big white hairs and they run all the way down the cola of the plant. I just got our co2 tanks filled. I just flushed the resivior. I think our 32 plant room might give us as much as our 72 plant room. :yay: 



The plants we pulled with those massive buds turned out to be a litttle less than a lb which was way less than what we thought it was going to be. Basically 14 plants = 1lb for what we pulled. Our friend that has the same strain is doing about 1lb per *8 plants *so that is why we thought it would be a lot more. But at least we can say that we have probably had bigger nugs than he probably ever has.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 14, 2008)

That vegetation does not look healthy. Waxy, curled, and crunched up means either to much heat or some other nute problem. Get the problem fixed and your yield will increase. I got 3 lbs. off 14 plants with only 2000 watts of light.


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## growfox (Nov 14, 2008)

Should I remove all of the bad leaves? 

Temperature had been steady, the lights might be too close. It might be the nutes, ill rinse it out and lower the PPMs. We used a lot of additives, maybe some of them are conflicting with each other or are too high levels.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 15, 2008)

Do not remove the leaves you will do more harm then good. If the lights get to close you will get light bleaching on the leaves. You can look it up in any of the online guides here on the site. It looks to me more of a nute deficiency or build up of some sort.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 15, 2008)

here is a very helpful link thanks to Slowmo77.

http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Thanks/ThankYou.htm


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## growfox (Nov 15, 2008)

Thanks, I was looking for that page. I saw it about 2 weeks ago but couldnt find it again after that. I have it on my favorites now.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 15, 2008)

no problem.


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## DomsChron (Nov 15, 2008)

*Hmmm. I get about a pound off of 4 plants...

Are you sure you should be taking so much advice from this buddy of yours who is giving you FLOWERING clones? :hubba:

Just listen to these kind folk here at MP and they will help you!

For example, this guy buddy luv should help you alot.

You will be growing like a pro sooon, and you can give your buddy VEGGING clones that you have yielded a pound for each couple plants.

He will be like where did you learn this? Then just smile and say secret. Then teach him!*


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 15, 2008)

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=324673&postcount=99

That is what you should be getting with that much lighting and co2. I didn't even have co2 whe I harvest that plant. 12 oz. for that 1 bubble gum. That was 1/3 of my yield for the entire room.


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## DomsChron (Nov 15, 2008)

*Yeah man, I didn't have c02 either. Seems like somethings wrong deffinately.

And buddy, that bubba gum, was it TGA? Iv'e been wondering about how it smokes, ive got some of them beans too I can't wait to start!*


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 15, 2008)

Believe it or not that is Nirvana Genetics. I got lucky. Only one female came out like that. The others had more sativa and just didn't put on the mass this one did. If you look in my sig. I have a full room of clones from her in flower right now. I hope to get 3-4 lbs. from the room for my put away for a rainy day stash and then it is on to something different. I have been looking for some of subcool's genetics but I haven't seen much out there at any of the banks I frequent. Maybe you can point me in the right direction.


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## DomsChron (Nov 15, 2008)

*Maybe I can....take my hand!

hxxp://hempdepot.ca/seeds/TGA/index.htm
hxxp://www.cannaseur.com/cannashop/index.php?ccUser=&catId=2&act=viewCat
hxxp://www.breedbay.co.uk/auction/categories.php?category=Beans&parent=315


P.s. what is the hybrid of the nirvana strain? Subcool uses a Clone only Mom Bush Hash and crosses it with a Grimm Male. Tastes of pink bubblegum, buds so dense they dent sheetrock LOL!

What shape are the cola on the nirvana strain? Block-head? Really triangular? Heavy indica influenced thick foxtailing colas like your purple wreck?*


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## growfox (Nov 15, 2008)

I think our 4 light room will be a lot better, we have cut out all extra nutrients, kept the ppm's lower than the last grow and left all leaves on there. Right now they are looking beautiful. I think they like the lower ppms(800 for the last 3 weeks, now 1000) beucase they were showing signs of stress when I had the ppm's up to 1300. I think they are on day 35 or so of flowering. 

For sure, Ill keep my camera handy and let you grow masters give me pointers. My 4 lighter plants are sleeping right now so I dont want to bother them and the other rooms are pretty much unchanged since my last post. I think today we are going to install a light mover for our veg, but that is about it.

EDIT

BTW, I drained my 100g resivior and found all kinds of residue sticking to everything. I think it was mostly nothern lights doing the damage but just to be safe I didnt add any nutes yet. I am going to let it cycle one more time then drain it and then fill it again. I am not sure if I am going to add nutes since they are already in their 10th week of flowering. What do you guys think?


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 15, 2008)

That is salt build up in your res and may be adding to your problems. Your res should be drained, cleaned, and refilled every week. You only add the nutes to your tank when you refill it and then top it off with plain ph'ed water as needed.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 15, 2008)

DomsChron said:
			
		

> *Maybe I can....take my hand!*
> 
> *hxxp://hempdepot.ca/seeds/TGA/index.htm*
> *hxxp://www.cannaseur.com/cannashop/index.php?ccUser=&catId=2&act=viewCat*
> ...


 
Not sure of their genetics. But It has to long heavy indica buds. Real dense, uniform, and more big colas then small popcorn.


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## growfox (Nov 16, 2008)

since we are on the topic of strains and you guys seem to have quite a few...

How much would your ppms differ from strain to strain? What about temperature, light, etc. Maybe our plants have different needs in flowering than most others?


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 16, 2008)

growfox said:
			
		

> since we are on the topic of strains and you guys seem to have quite a few...
> 
> How much would your ppms differ from strain to strain? What about temperature, light, etc. Maybe our plants have different needs in flowering than most others?


 
Light doesn't really matter, the more the merrier. PPM's of course are strain related. My Blueberry and Bubblegum could handle 1800 ppm., while the White Widow I had showed signs of burn at 900. Temperature is important 75-85 is ideal, however to get the purple strains to turn that dark purple most need daytime temps in the lows 70's and nighttime temps below 60.


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## growfox (Nov 16, 2008)

I hope you guys dont mind my long posts, I type nearly as fast as I think so I never really consider the strain on the reader until I am done typing.  Ill try to proof read them so they are simple and easy to read so you can just fly right through them.

Each grow seems to be a little different for us. First spidermites, next tip burn, and now we have wierd purple leaves as you just saw, and also now our 4 light room doesnt seem to like anything above 800ppms.  Fortunatly each grow has got a little better each time and fortunatly using lower ppms will save us money on nutes so I guess I cant complain too much. 

My best guess is that our veg is so dialed in and our roots are so white that they do not need the extra nutrient levels that our friend does with his grow op. Our veg is much more bushy and dense compared to when I first started doing this.  Our fan leaves are HUGE compared to his.

But anyways, my friend installed the light rail for the veg so now we should be able to get rid of that mh light that was burning our clones. We pulled/harvested the rest of the plants in our larger 9 light room beucase all the lower buds were browned out and they werent growing anymore.  The next few days will be cleaning up and waiting for the smaller plants in our veg to get bigger.

Since the 9 light room is done, now I can concentrate on our smaller 4 light room which has recently been showing signs of stress. Ill attach some pictures to give you a better idea of the situation. It looks like the same problem as before, with the purple leaves and all that, but this time, I flushed out the resivior for this room 4 days ago and it seems that the problem is continuing. Should I lower the ppms? Maybe stop using kool bloom? I might guess this is normal for this strain but our friend doesnt have this problem and ive never seen it do this the first 3 grows. The leaves seem to be curling downward as well. It's got progressivly worse since I flushed out the resivior.  We dont have a PH meter, and I have brought this up several times to my friend that we need to get one, but he says that the PH of our tap water is fine... and he is the boss so, ultimatly it is up to him. 

Ill look at some of those links you guys gave me in the mean time, but I still would appreciate your input.

On a side note, I just want to point out that when I say 'friend', im not always talking about the same person. One friend lives here and helps me grow. Hes the boss. Normally when I say anything related to what goes on in THIS place, I am talking about that friend. The other friend I refer to owns this house and rents it out to us and accepts payment by taking half of whatever we make. He never comes over here. Hes a cool guy most of the time, but he has some questionable qualities to him. This is the guy that gave us the flowering clones... :doh:


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 16, 2008)

My ques is either poor genetics or something is a muck with your nutes. May I suggest buying some quality genetics from the 'Dam. I mean for the amount of money you guys have invested in this med grow you could easily buy 100 beans of some quality genes that are not hand me downs of a friend of a friend. This will also allow you know what strain you are dealing with and the ability to ask advice from other memeber who has experience growing that particular strain.


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## DomsChron (Nov 16, 2008)

*Lookin better buddy! Make sure to take it easy on each strain and slowly bump it up and then once you find the level, bring it down just a little. That is the key ppm for that strain.*


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## growfox (Nov 16, 2008)

You are right. I would rather have a more common strain and get big results from each pull, but its a complicated situation. This particular strain goes for a lot more on the market than most others. Until we get our flower dialed in, we dont know the potential of this strain. We made a huge improvement from our last pull where we only got popcorn sized buds to where we are now with giant dense colas, some of that improvement came from your help.

EDIT per request of domschron

Im sure that if I spent less than $100 on a bomb strain and it showed results, then we might switch over. I actually would look forward to trying to grow a new strain but keep in mind it would have to be isolated from the rest of the plants until sexing is done which would mean I would need to either build my own ghetto wrig or be super responsible and water it right on time and in exactly the right amount, etc.  I stay home most of the time as you can imagine beucase this area has had a few break ins so hand watering might not be a problem, but I a pretty certain that I would forget and the whole thing would go to hell. 

One of our other friends intends to start growing but he doesnt know anything about growing so we are building the rooms and taking care of the plants so that might be an opportunity to try some new strains. Really we are just borrowing the space. 

Ill take some of these ideas to my friend when he gets back. Hes about 200 miles away right now.


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## growfox (Nov 16, 2008)

I flushed it out, put fresh water in there and bumped the ppms up to 1000 and only added a dash of kool boom. Ill try taking it up either tomorrow or the day after up to 1050, possibly higher. I've seen it take 1800 without any changes at this stage so maybe I was wrong and it really needed higher ppms, but in any case, all the hairs are still white and the roots are looking beautiful so we have time to try a few things before it starts aging out.


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## DomsChron (Nov 16, 2008)

> That is probably where msot of the money that we make off of this recent pull is going to go.



*We actually don't sell here...might wanna edit that?*


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## Elven (Nov 17, 2008)

Just my 2 cents. I am still working on my first grow but I am using Fogponics and I am using the full Humboldt Nutrients Master AB feed schedule and now that I have my system fine tuned. I am  getting tons of growth, but we will see. Good luck and hope to see some good bud pr0n!


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## growfox (Nov 18, 2008)

The leaves are continuing to become purple, but I did a little research on my strains(Afghan x Bubba Kush) and purple leaves might be normal, however, I am still going to explore the possibility that it is a PH problem or a Phosphorus defiency.  The leaves seem to have stopped curling as much since my last resivior flush. The fan leaves and some of the smaller leaves are still increasingly turning purple however, I just realized that its only 1.5 weeks from their typical harvest time so as I said before, it might be normal.

I will post some pictures later, they are sleeping right now.


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## growfox (Nov 20, 2008)

End of week 6 in 4 light room:

I bought a PH kit and the ph checked out. I believe it was between 5.5 and 6.

Some of the fan leaves are still turning purple as you will be able to see from the pictures. 

I bumped the PPM's up to 1400, and its been like that for the past few days so it looks like the higher PPM's are helping. Today I also bumped the Kool Bloom up after adding some more water beucase I recently figured out, from reading the label, that Kool Bloom has Potassium and Phosphorus which is one of the suggestions I have recieved about fixing the purple leaf problem and it seems to be working.  I have also swapped out water twice in less than a week beucase I was overdue on flushing/cleaning the resivior the first time by 1 week so I wanted to even things out a little bit. The plants have been pretty low maintaince aside from flushing. The leaves are still green and there is a lot of foliage so spidermites seem to be taking a vow of abstenance. 

A note of concern though: I noticed a small layer of some kind of crystals forming on the top of my resivior.  :doh:  I previously attributed this to a PH inbalance, but since I recently found out the PH was normal, that rules PH out. Im guessing it is some kind of nutrient lock Either between A and B or between A/B and kool Bloom. Im not really sure what to make of it.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 20, 2008)

It is salt build up. That is why you should clean your res everytime you do a change.


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## growfox (Nov 21, 2008)

salt as in sodium chloride or salt as in a metaphore for crystal substance?

is there anyway to decrese this? other than rinsing the resivior?


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## gettinggray1964 (Nov 21, 2008)

looks like nute burn.........


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 22, 2008)

What is your watering cycle? To me it looks like more nute burn and to much watering. I found on my last farm that 6-8 times a day and for         10-15min at a time. The crispy look on the leaf looks most def to much nutes. The curling of the tips is to muching watering. But I dident read the start of your fourm cus lol I dident want to read that much atm. But over all man your crop looks good as ****.  :hubba:


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 22, 2008)

The waxy look and krinkle look of the leaves is caused by the pyrethrins spray you are using to fight the mites. I just tried some on a few big buds that were not invested to see what would happen. My leaves now look just like yours'. As far as the curling under that is definantly a nute problem. You should only be feeding your plants once a week. When you change your res you add the nutes to brings it up to the proper ppm for your set-up. Then as the res goes down in level you top it off with just plain water. When the week is up you dump the res, clean and start over agin with your next week's feeding schedule. You should not be adding nutes in between res changes.


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## growfox (Nov 22, 2008)

right now it is at 45 minute waterings twice a day spaced 6 hours apart. each cycle does an incremental fill of the buckets so its not really 45 mintues of complete watering really, its more like the bottom roots get the most water, the middle roots get like 20 minutes and the top get 10 minutes. Once the buckets drain, the hydroton begins to dry slowly from top to bottom usually taking a few hours. 

I'll take overwatering as a factor into consideration, however I think it used to be at 30 minute waterings when the problem was more appearent.

Thanks for your praise Smokey. 

Me and my friend decided to do a complete overhaul on our whole operation. We had a 3 hour discussion on what is wrong and what can be improved.  If you have been keeping track of our progress, then you should know we really should be getting more weight than what we are getting right now, especially considering the size of our operation.

Here are some of the changes we are going to make starting from clone, ending at flower:

Clones will now only be taken a few at a time. Each clone will be dipped immediatly in root powder or rooting gel. On some of the larger cuttings, we will remove a little extra layer of the skin to allow better water consumption in the rockwool-submereged part of the stem(tested this once so far and it seems to work). We are going to have joe-the-handyman make a small shelf area where there is a retractable table to water the clones. We are going to remove the cloning trays that have individual slots for each clone beucase they sometimes become wedged in the slot and makes it difficult and potentially harmful to the plant to pull them out. Plus the regular flat trays are much easier to keep sterilized.  Ambient tempature and humidity will be raised by whatever means we can to promote faster rooting and healthier clones. Mold and bugs will be monitored closely. Clones will be watered veg resivior water a few days before transplant to give an easier transition.

Veg will no longer be planted until we have enough rooted clones so that plants are not larger/taller than others. We already installed a light rail to promote an even grow across all the plants. Tempature will be incresed slightly to stimulate growth.  Plants will be sprayed  with insect/fungi killer at least once during the veg cycle and always right before transplant to flower. Water in our veg will be cleaned out more often. Ph will be monitored more closely. Our light has already been switched from 18 hours light and 6 dark to 24 hours of light and 0 dark. This will also increase veg speed. We are going to try Sensi Grow instead of our mixture of miracle grow, super thrive, maxi grow and other nutes in our water. 

Flower will have constant CO2 from beginning to end. We are considering getting a CO2 controller, however these run $400 for the cheapest so its still up for debate. We will be purchasing more CO2 tanks to cover this demand. Lights will be adjusted to the point of tip burn at which point they will be moved back. We still have not honed in on an ideal distance for our initial transplant so we will start out at least 2-3 feet, and move in closer. 

We will be purchasing a few items to make a small experiment section where we will be pushing our plants to the max of what they can take as far as PPM's, Nutrients, and Light. This will not be an exact duplication of the conditions but we hope it is close enough to properly simulate our current setup. I will probably be posting pictures of this witnin the next week or two, depending on when I can get the materials.

Im sure there were a few other items we discussed but I cant remember them all, ill try to get some pictures once we move our veg and start our new cycle.


EDIT:

Just saw your post buddyluv. I keep track of the flush days on a whiteboard calendar, so ill be sure to only do it one week after each previous rinse and not add nutes inbetween. I actually did this yesterday, ended up adding too much and pushing it to over 2000ppm. I wasnt too worried tho beucase its almost time to pull them, however, I added fresh water anyways to get it down to 1800-1900. Its been like this for 2 watering cycles with no ill effects, I will monitor them closely though for any signs of change.

We dont really use spray to kill our mites for fear of sickness to the smoker but I will talk it over with the boss and see if he wants to chance it. We dont really have many mites as long as we keep the room cold so its never really been a problem anyways.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 22, 2008)

It is fine to spray for the first week or so but after that I would use a Doktor Doom fogger or Safe's Soap on a sponge and coat the undersides of the leaves.


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## SmokeyTheBear (Nov 22, 2008)

What up man ya just try bring down the the time on the water just by a min or two. You said that you are cloning? Between the larger and smaller clones you dont have to do anything different. The longer that you have fresh cut clone in the air the higher chance of it dieing. For the larger clones you dont have to scrap the skin of the stem to make it produce more root all that will do is put it into shock or kill it. If you shock it your product will be half of what it could be. How many ladies do you have? Why I ask is there are many different ways of cloning on this web site. I suggest doing it the most simplest you you can. The more you do the more problems you will run into. But if you want to try different ways try it on one plant and do something different on another one, and always clone the whole plant in one sitting. Never do a part of a plant and then a part later. I would also recommend building a clone bubler or a clone mister. Its the best way to promote new root groth. What is the temp of your grow room. 68 to 78 is the best temp for fast veg. Your mite problem really sucks >< Do you already have another cycle in the works? If not i would , do suggest take everything out and cleaning it real good and sprey, bome, do what you need to do tp get the mites out. They are almost impossable to get rid of you you dont take everything out. I think there is something else but dont remember. Hope thing work out


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## growfox (Nov 22, 2008)

My friend had been scraping the skin for quite some time before this and he had a 99% sucess rate. We changed a few things and our sucess rate went down drasticly. I actually didnt believe him at first about scraping the skin but I tried it on one of the larger ones that was looking sad and had 6 or 7 nodes and it bounced back within 2 days. I only did that to help it get more water though, not to promote root growth. We have 3 ezclone systems but we only get a 10% success rate when we transplant. I am going to convert these ez clones into an aerobed by replacing the srinklers and using 2" net pots and making a few other chanes.  

We take cuttings from our veg, and we have 80 plants in our veg right now, 12 of them are either stunted or taking their sweet *** time growing so we have to wait for at least 4 more to perk up before we move 72 of them into flower. I could probably take another 200 clones right now if I wanted to but we really dont need them, we have about 100 right now and that is more than enough to fill all the pots. Our problem is that they are not rooting fast enough and they are eventually dying which is why we are going to put some TLC and some money into fixing our cloning system. We both think that this is the reason our plants are so fragile- they had a rough cloning process and therefore are not completely healthy. It will probably take another 2 months to figure this out but at least with our situation, we can try several different methods of cloning beucase of the size of our operation.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 23, 2008)

I have an aero-cloner and get a 100% root rate. The only time I lose one is when my stoned butt isn't careful when transplanting it in the hydroton. I get roots in 5-7 days and then I let them sit in there for about a week till the roots are 2-3 long.


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## NorCalHal (Nov 23, 2008)

In an operation of your size, Clone stock and Mother plants are KEY to being succesful. Trust me.

You need to DIAL in your cloneing. If you are able to take an extra 100 clones, DO IT. Practice different methods until you find one that works well for you. Do not let an oppertunity to take cuts pass u by. Take them. Even if you throw them out. Keep taking them until u get it down.

Preparedness. Once you are confident in your clone taking, you will have an idea of how long it will take to shoot roots. Plan this in your timing of replacing your flowering plants.

Pick 1 or 2 strains. Do not do more then that until you get your room DIALED.
Running one strain per room is a key factor in optimizing your yeild. Keep plant hight uniform. Do this by supercropping.

From the pics I see, your room temps seem to be cold. That will make that Bubba cross purple oput in the leaves. That is what is causing the that, imo. Overnuits is also a factor. 
Throw away all your supplements. Use one Fert line, and use just the basics part of that line. Use HALF of whatever is recommended. You will suffer alot more by overfert rather then underfert. If you "underfert" , you will still hit at least a lb a lite. Whereas, if u overfert, u will get less, and less quality bud.


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## growfox (Nov 23, 2008)

Thanks for the advice guys. Heres a little story to our cloning, so you know  how and why it got to this point...learn from my mistakes, even if they are pretty stupid. :hitchair: :doh: 

Our clones were moved from our hallway where there is no AC to our veg room where there is a 24k btu ac to keep them cool during the summer and Fall where temps reach 100+. The first time we realized keeping them in the hallway was going to be a problem was when we went to go plant our clones and 50% of them were killed from fungus and overheating.  As you can imagine, we went to drastic measures to prevent this from happening again, so we moved our clones into the veg room where it was air conditioned, we bought new trays with adjustable breathing holes on top to control/lower the humidity and made a few other minor changes.

Looking back, maybe we went a bit too far which is why we have been having so many problems, plus once we made the changes, we never bothered to look back and ask ourselves "is that really necessary anymore?" For example, the highs for this area are currently 80 F and lows are around 50 F. An air conditioned room really isnt necessary anymore.  Also, since the temperature dropped, that also means there wasnt really a need for the breathing holes to be open anymore. Our plants never got fungus, but we traded it off by having them dying from never rooting properly.

BuddyLuv,  I tried the ezclone once, and I had decent results,but had to abandon it for various reasons.  I recently decided to mess around with it and turn it into an aeroponics but I look at it now an realize that everytime I put rooting compound on the cutting, it gets washed away. How do you get roots? Or does the rooting compound work immediately? Maybe mix it with the water for a few days?

Norcalhal, Ill be sure to take more clones, right now we are up to about 150, with about 20 of them well on their way to being completely rooted. Ive made a few adjustments with our trays and temps to make it more ideal for the babies. 

As far as the flower, we seem to have that finally dialed in. Right now we are pushing over 1800 PPMs with no ill effects. No additional purple leaves, no tip burn, nothing. I am guessing this is due to some of your suggestions and also due to some guessing on our part. Im not really sure which changes make this possible but I am glad it is finally working out. 

We should be planting our veg into flower soon. Hopefully this time we will be able to put all of your suggestions into practice and this harvest done right.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 23, 2008)

I use power clone from Botanicare and hydro guard to keep the fungus and algae at bay.


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## growfox (Nov 24, 2008)

Right now we are using a powder beucase it works well with cubes. We were considering getting a gel but our local hydro store only sells $30 bottles. Until a few weeks ago, we didnt have the $$ to purchase something that expensive, especially since there was no good reason to switch. I have to get net pots for the ezclone(assuming they will fit) so ill check out my options when I go down there again. 

I looked at the clones in our veg room and 50% of them are rooting, some of them are ready to be transplanted.  This all happened after only two days of moving the humidity and temperature up a little bit. Before, there were only a handful rooting, and only one ready to be transplanted. Dont know if this was coincidence or directly related to the changes we made, but either way I am happy they are showing improvement. This means we can start moving our veg into flower soon. First we have to wash 72 buckets and clean the 9 light flower room.  :hitchair: :doh: Its really not that much work, but we dont have a special setup to clean buckets so we have to make due with the shower/tub and straddleing the tub as a seat which hurts after only a few minutes.


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## growfox (Dec 14, 2008)

Just thought you guys might want to know, Ive been booted from the grow op. Not beucase of anything I did or didnt do, but my friend moved and basically forgot that I was living there so now I had to move back home. I might be back on in a few months, my family is anti-marijuana so it wouldn't be approprite being on this site while I am here. 

When I move out, i will have my own grow op and not have to worry about getting approval by my friend so eventually some good things will come of it. 

Modifying the EZclone to be an aeroponics setup worked beatifually so that is probably what I am going to do on my next setup, except use rubbermaid buckets or something inexpensive. Once I move into my new place, I will look for advice, but for now, I need to keep a low profile, I really dont want to be homeless.


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## CasualGrower (Dec 15, 2008)

Heya Growfox, I just read through the whole thread.....  Not a bad lil read...  I would not worry about having ot leave the grow op... sounds to me like you all got way in over your heads to start.  The best thing you could do now is to get another going.... one that ONLY you are in... stay small and get the whole growing thing down to a science.... once you can get a small op going full tilt, expanding is not a big deal.... There is a HUGE learning curve in this lil hobby...

Good luck in your future endeavors.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2008)

Here still has a few years of mistakes before he can succesfully run an op that big, imho.

Players don't move home, they keep playin'


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