# possible root bound hydro question



## joegrow44 (Mar 2, 2007)

I have six plants with one of them seeming root bound due to rams horn curling leaves due to excess ferts.  I have flushed with ro water for two days and returned them to a 60% dose of ferts.  They are two weeks into flower, should they be o.k.?


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 2, 2007)

joegrow44 said:
			
		

> I have six plants with one of them seeming root bound due to rams horn curling leaves due to excess ferts. I have flushed with ro water for two days and returned them to a 60% dose of ferts. They are two weeks into flower, should they be o.k.?


It depends on the severity of the damage. 

What type of Hydro?

NFT and DWC are the only two types of Hydro that I've heard of root mass problems with.

What strain are you growing?

What type of lights are you using?

What nutes are you using?


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 2, 2007)

Hey Stoney, thanks for the quick reply.  I have been trolling this site for some time and really appreciate the support.  I have six plants in ebb/flow, 15gallon reservoir that I change aqua every two weeks.  3 plants are sour diesel and they have no problems.  The three other are white widows.  The largest one is the one with the problems.  It seems to have the curling problem on only 1/3 of the branches.  I will use larger containers next round for sure and flower sooner.  I have an out of control scrog right now.  I turned the 400 mh to a hps at 4 weeks with clones.  Plants are now at 3 feet and super lush 2 weeks and 3 days into 12/12.  Fertilizer is super natural bloom aqua.  The curling started 1 week into flower so nitrogen was down.  From what I have read it looks like a N overdose.  Next time all will be the same variety with more hydroten and flower sooner.  Currently, the containers have 2 gallons of hydroton.  thanks


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 3, 2007)

What feeding schedule are you feeding on now?

I use a one hour on, two hours off, cycle. 365 till harvest.


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 3, 2007)

Taking for granted that you have a full drain after about 10 minutes, I would increase your feed/drain ratio to a one hour on, two hour off cycle until the plants recover. Your only worry at that point would be mechanical failure due to clogage. Hahahaah..clogage.....is that a word?

hahahaahahhhaa

Ok, I'm high. I've been smoking my Aurora Indica....

Hey, if you increase the feed ratio, at the volume of your grow chambers, it should accurately reflect your reservoirs contents.

Measure the reservoir at that point, and then you know what to fix.

The Nute/Oxygen cycle is what it should really be called in hydro.

Hydro is bending Mother Natures rules....

That's what I like about it...

What I'm advising is a rapid fix, never fails cure for ebb and flow.

If you flood and drain at that ratio, you can get away with some pretty small grow chambers. You do have to make sure the roots are not clogging the drains. You can have a real mess that way.

(Don't ask)

I'm very interested to know how this proceeds. Please let me know.


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 3, 2007)

Thanks Stoney.  I have been running the flood for 15 minutes and off for 2:45 during the day cycle, and once each four hours at night.  If I understand you right, your saying to incease the time of flood cycle when I already have a nute overload?  thanks


----------



## MJ20 (Mar 3, 2007)

Currently I have 2 lil ones in some oasis just taking sunlight during the day and giving them nutes>no hydro setup>jus oasis + nutes.They have curling tips with yellow.I added stronger nutes yesterday so today i'll see how that goes and report back.


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 3, 2007)

joegrow44 said:
			
		

> Thanks Stoney. I have been running the flood for 15 minutes and off for 2:45 during the day cycle, and once each four hours at night. If I understand you right, your saying to incease the time of flood cycle when I already have a nute overload? thanks


That feed ratio is too short on the feed side. The plants only source of nutrient is from the feed cycle. Plants can use a lot more than 15 minutes of food each 3 hours.

You should adjust your nutrient strength before doing anything. The problem I was addressing was the "root bound" condition.

Not feeding them will just cause more problems. A 15 minute feed cycle just isn't enough for them.


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 3, 2007)

Thanks for the reply Stoney.  I was building a fence earlier with the wifey to give more privacy to our yard for the summer games outdoors.  Don't really give a **** what he thinks since we are both medical card holders but the neighborhood kids still might risk their lives screwing with us.  Back to the indoor games.  I will change the flood cycle to 1 hour during the plant daylight 12 hours as you suggested.  Should I leave the night as is?  I am still concerned I am giving them too much nutes.  The schedule I provided has not resulted in one yellow leaf so far so they would seem to be getting enough.  They are at three feet each and a little stretched compared to what I have done guerilla outdoors in the past.  I am at two weeks and four days and I hope the stretch stops soon as I am running out of vertical height.  Thanks again for your support.  I sure love all the botany classes I took in college.  What a way to apply yourself!


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 3, 2007)

joegrow44 said:
			
		

> I will change the flood cycle to 1 hour during the plant daylight 12 hours as you suggested. Should I leave the night as is? I am still concerned I am giving them too much nutes. The schedule I provided has not resulted in one yellow leaf so far so they would seem to be getting enough.


The increase of feeding time isn't to provide more nutrients, it's to provide more water and to provide more time for nutrients to be absorbed. The strength of the nutrients still has to be adjusted to exactly what your plants need. If the strength of nutrients that you had was causing the burn, then you'll need to dilute them to the proper strength. 

I've found that even with hydro nutes, the plants usually won't like full strength solution until the last two weeks or so of flowering.

Every time I try to use full strength nutes in an ebb and flow system, they cause burn. If you can lighten up on your nitrogen, (almost stopping it), you're plants will flower better. That's one of the reasons I like the three part GH nutes. The strength of each component can be adjusted easily.

Good luck man.


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 3, 2007)

Stoney, thanks.  I will only add straight agua to the res for a few days to dilute the nutes more.  I added more flood time as you suggested.  I am using the lap top until the other computer has the mirror hard drive system repaired.  Then I will send pics.  Its funny, only half the branches on the one plant of six has the problem.  I am still very happy for my first hydro run.  should get at least 8 oz from a 400 watt.  I know I can get the 16 with practice.  I miss the guerilla games on one hand but don't like the risk.  My old pals still do it in MY SPOT that I found with a natural spring.  Last season they did 40 females and 16 elbos in the woods and visited only every 4 weeks.  Not bad.  I still charge them all some rent.  Ha Ha.  I appreciate the support and I will continue to post the progress.


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 3, 2007)

joegrow44 said:
			
		

> Stoney, thanks. I will only add straight agua to the res for a few days to dilute the nutes more. I added more flood time as you suggested. I am using the lap top until the other computer has the mirror hard drive system repaired. Then I will send pics. Its funny, only half the branches on the one plant of six has the problem. I am still very happy for my first hydro run. should get at least 8 oz from a 400 watt. I know I can get the 16 with practice. I miss the guerilla games on one hand but don't like the risk. My old pals still do it in MY SPOT that I found with a natural spring. Last season they did 40 females and 16 elbos in the woods and visited only every 4 weeks. Not bad. I still charge them all some rent. Ha Ha. I appreciate the support and I will continue to post the progress.


Yeah man, I understand about the outside grows. I quit doing it many years ago because of all the cops. Jeeeeezzzzzzzz, it seems like they have some sort of mission to screw with us growers.

I had a couple of close calls and just said "Aw the hell with it", and started growing inside.

Now I've got weed falling out of my ears. 

Good luck to you man.


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 8, 2007)

Hey Stoney (or anyone else), I want to give you an update.  I switched the watering cycle as you prescribed but things are getting worse.  More and more rams horns coming out.  It's strange, the white widows all have it but the sour diesels don't at all.  I am right now trying a clearex flush to leach out the potential salts and I will restart with low nutes at first to see if there is any improvement.  Any more ideas?  I know this is solveable but I am running out of options.  Have you seen nute salt overload before?  If so what did you see.


----------



## MJ20 (Mar 9, 2007)

Well atleast you've narrowed it down to the white widows


----------



## Elephant Man (Mar 9, 2007)

Great info on the hydro here Stoney, thanks.

Joe: I know a med card outdoor grower that has been using his back yard for 3 years now...he lives less than a mile from the center of town. 

He has had a few problems...he actually even had a theif prosecuted.:aok:

Shoot me a pm and maybe you guys can have a chat if you like...he may have some tips for you. 

My white widows don't want any N.  Errrr....in soil , sorry, not a hydro guy but that strain seems to like low N.

Good luck bro

Eman:ccc:


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 11, 2007)

After doing more research, It appears that all rootbound plants start turning yellow at the bottom and continue towards the top.  I still have green leaves all the way to the bottom.  I have pruned very very few leaves off this grow only for some simple light penetration to budding sites.  I still have no improvement.  The bloom aqua flowering nutes say 700-1000 ppm max.  I was up to 850 which was what probably started all this crap.  After the clearex flush for salt buildup, I am at 300 ppm which seems low but I am nervous about raising it.  Plants still flowering o.k. but the ww's all have that curl down leaf look.  Not all branches have it as bad as others and most larger fan leaves are sticking straight out.   The budding sites seem to be having it the worst which is what I don't need right now.  The top buds on the ww's are practically the same size as the sour diesels.  I did read through your (Stoney) ebb flow setup.  I just need larger containers.  The reservoir should suffice being almost 2 x the volume of what my new containers will hold minus medium volume.  The only other thing I can think of is that the ww's do not like this fertilizer ratio.  It is 14-8-19.  Seems like a high N % for flowering.  I may change to a different flowering nute this week unless there are any more suggestions.   I am running out of options.  I wish the next four weeks would go by so I can re-start.  Most likely I will try a different variety and plant all the same kind.


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 11, 2007)

Mixing strains in a hydro grow can be risky. The white strains seem to be more touchy to N than all of their cousins. It sounds like over nutrient feeding. When flowering, those nutes you're using don't sound like a very good ratio. Way too much N.


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 11, 2007)

Stoney, I have to agree with you about two different strains.  This was my 1st hydro grow so it was kind of an experiment to say the least.  I will still get some great smoke and o.k. yield out of it by what i see today.  I see at least 7-8 oz from the 400 watt.  I have seen the 16 oz from the 400 and I know I can do it with the correct strain.  I have taken some pictures but can't post them until the main computer is back in operation.  So, off to the hydro shop to get some nutes with very little N if any to finish the flowering.  Next time I will set up larger containers.  On your tutorial, did you say you mix small river rock in with the hydroton in a 50/50 ratio, correct?.  I can't wait until the next grow.  As I learned in the hills, the next time around is always better.  Any suggestions on any of the purple varieties for ease of growing, decent yield, 8 week or so flower.  I am thinking of backing off on the sativa ratio a little to something 20% sativa/80% indica.  Plus I am almost ready to plant my garden plant of the year which will get LST'd to the max which should be more of the indica type.  Nothing better than the full sun especially with a medical card in the back yard.


----------



## Stoney Bud (Mar 11, 2007)

joegrow44 said:
			
		

> Stoney, did you say you mix small river rock in with the hydroton in a 50/50 ratio, correct?


Yep, that's right man. The river rock works well for the roots to wrap around and the hydroton is excellant for water retension. Make sure you wash the rock well with some clorox to disinfect it. Then rinse, rinse, rinse. You'll need to pick just the larger rock out. It has a lot of little gravel in the bags that will clog your pump or lines.

It's a pain, but it saves money and you only have to do it once.


----------



## Weeddog (Mar 12, 2007)

I havent been able to grow white widow yet with no signs of nute burn....  That stuff is very touchy on its nutes.  About 4 or 5 weeks into flower, I can usually get the ppm up to around 800, but thats about tops for it.  Keep your nutrients a little weak on the ww and they will turn out fine.  Not sure how your sour deisel will like it.   Stoney is right on about the different strains in the same system.  I would make the widow happy and most likely the sour will be ok.


----------



## joegrow44 (Mar 14, 2007)

Thanks for the reply weedog.  I grew a ww in the backyard last year and never gave it any fertilizer in a huge container with good soil.  I had all the leaves on it when I pulled it.  I planted the clone on may 15 and it was totally done on Sept. 1.  8 oz cured.  I am going to do another one this year but start it earlier.  It seems like backing off on the nutes has got the hydro system in check.  The curly leaf has stopped and gotten a litttle better.  Bud formation is still moving along o.k.  375 ppm seems to do the trick.  The sour diesel looks great also.  I am going to keep a close eye on things and keep everything at the current rate until I do the flush in a few weeks unless I see a definate nute deficiency.  Never again ww indoors until I get to know hydro better.  I think I am going to do a purple variety next.  Just love the colors.  Happy smoking to all who have given me advice: Stoney, Weedog, Carabean, etc.  Happy smoking.  I will post progress and will post pictures once the main computer is back running.  Hey Weedog, did you pick your name from Cheech and Chongs Labrador who ate their smoke and they had follow it around with a baggie for three days to get it back?  Lmao Joe


----------

