# trimming leaves natural  VS scrog whats the differents



## teddy d (Mar 23, 2011)

(yes i*screwed* up the title sorry i suck at spelling and i actually am not a child haha Im sorry)

I know cutting sun leaves is a hot topic, almost everyone says NO, and have done my homework a bit to late. I did a lot of trimming durring week 2,3,4 of flower to expose lower buds in a sea of green setup(which actually does help to develop small buds early on) but i went overboard taking an old time growers advise and now i have a stain that was orig from feminized seeds, and its going hermie big time. i keep cutting out the nanners. but i see good number of pistils throughout the whole sog that look like they are dying back and im worried about a decent pollination.

*MY QUESTION IS:*
In a SCROG setup, why does everyone advocate cutting off most of the foliage beneath the screen(about 1/3 of the bottom foliage) to improve air movement and to keep the plant from wasting energy on useless under growth? I have never heard anyone say its to stressful... 
(See PHOTO)

but when i do some decent pruning to open stuff up it goes male? 

*i wanna know why the stress i caused is by pruning is so much different than SCROG pruning*

the strain is  world of seeds "Afghan kush special" fem. I have never had it not hermie in 3 grows. I love the high so much but its gone as of this grow.


p.s. I tried a bud at the 5 week mark today to test the potency if i have to pull it early, and it was STRONG it gave me anxiety and I actually didnt want to be high anymore after 3  normal bong hits and i timed the high to last about 2 full hours.


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## SensiStarFan (Mar 23, 2011)

"I have never had it not hermie in 3 grows". 
  - If it has hermied on you three grows in a row I seriously doubt your pruning is causing the hermie characteristic to come out.  You probably just have a hermie plant.  Cutting the nanners out is a losing battle in my opinion, but if you have the time and the patience I can see how you would help your buds be LESS seeded.  If it was me I would try some new seeds.

-SSF-


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## maineharvest (Mar 23, 2011)

There is always a chance of it turning hermie when you are growing with feminized seeds.  If you were growing standard seeds from a reputable breeder then you probably wouldnt have a hermie right now.  All SCROG growers trim the bottom section and it shouldnt cause your plant to hermie.  Looks like you need to find some new genetics maybe.


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## TheKlonedRanger (Mar 23, 2011)

I've read up on scrog, but don't have hands on. Are they trimming that late into flower?  I've always read not to trim later than a week or two into flower. Cutting off that late in flower is stressing the plant and could cause it to hermie also...right?


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## Jericho (Mar 23, 2011)

TheKlonedRanger said:
			
		

> I've read up on scrog, but don't have hands on. Are they trimming that late into flower?  I've always read not to trim later than a week or two into flower. Cutting off that late in flower is stressing the plant and could cause it to hermie also...right?



Stressing the plant to the point it thinks its going to die is when it hermie's. Femmed seeds are more prone to this due to how they are breed. 


Teddy.
You may just be cutting off too many leaves/ branches at a time.


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## teddy d (Mar 23, 2011)

yeh i did go to town on them one day. im just gonna tie leafs down from now on. I think I have induced some for of stress due to just learning from my mistakes. so thats why i think this fem strain keeps doing this.

these are clones taken from very stressed plants from the cold also.

*can the stress of a mother pass into the clones to show up as problems later?*

thanks for so many replies.


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## Mutt (Mar 23, 2011)

I sometimes "thin" the Fan leaves. When its a short bushy indica strain. But it's not to get light to lower bud sites. It's to make it so some air flow will get around the main stalk to prevent any possible mold issues. Has nothing to do with the bud sites. The leaves in combination with the roots are what build the plant using light and nutrients. In reality all buds are is the reproduction part of the plant pollinate and it makes more seeds., not much more function. Every part just like humans has a purpose.
That picture you provided is a perfect lower scrog trim. But if you notice above the screen it's got a ton of leaves. When you trim from an el naturel plant it's easier to get carried away. Scrog it's obvious trim every thing from here down leave everything from here up. I only take 1 or 2 leaves every few days if I have to when i grow el naturel...which is every time. I love a huge main cola LOL. Some of those indicas get really bushy and love mold for some reason.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 23, 2011)

IMO, your plants did not hermie because of stress.  They hermied because they are fem seeds with hermie genetics bred into them.  I would advise trying another strain and maybe reg seeds, not fems.


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## teddy d (Mar 23, 2011)

thats pretty crappy genetics if a plant is grown in perfect conditions and hermie JUST because they are fem.

I thought the old way (whatever it is) of producing fem seeds caused most of the hermie seeds and they are using a new method (i think a chemical) to create  feminized seeds that does not induce the hermie trait into the seeds.

what is  the reputation of  "world of seeds"  breeders?

anyway this strain is gone after this for me.


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## maineharvest (Mar 23, 2011)

Never heard of or seen anybody do a grow from World of Seeds.  That doesnt mean they arent good breeders though.  

There are some old skool breeders that have a great reputation and have been breeding for decades and refuse to go feminized.  To me that says a lot about a breeder when they know that they can come out with Fem seeds and make tons more money but they are true to themselves and refuse to sell out.  They consider this an art and dont come out with new strains every other month.  It takes a lot of hard work and years of selection for some to make a new strain.  To name a few breeders- Shantibaba of Mr Nice, Chimera, Dj Short, and Breeder Steve from Spice of Life seeds.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 23, 2011)

teddy d said:
			
		

> ...thats pretty crappy genetics if a plant is grown in perfect conditions and hermie JUST because they are fem...



Yes, you are absolutely right--it is crappy, but it is the reason that I, personally, do not purchase fem seeds....


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## Bleek187 (Mar 23, 2011)

hmm.. i always buy fem seeds and ive never had one hermy on me yet.. they have all been full female and grown great. next time buy from a more popular seed bank or something


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## SensiStarFan (Mar 23, 2011)

ooooooooooooo, another feminized versus natural seed debate    I would touch this thread with a ten foot pole, but my two 600 HPS, inline fan, and carbon filter are all hanging from the only 10 foot pole I have    

I prefer regular seeds as opposed to feminized seeds because if I find a great male I will save his pollen and try crossing.  HOWEVER, I have VERY limited experience with feminized seeds so I am not a good source for evaluation.  The good news is I received a buttload.....yea I broke out the word "buttload" of feminized seeds from attitude in the promo so down the line I will hopefully learn more 


-SSF-


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## teddy d (Mar 24, 2011)

the only way to truly know for sure is to grow it in the PERECT enviroment with 0% stress and see if the trait remains.

other than that theres no need for a fem vs reg debate to exist in this thread. we have all seen enough of them.

THANK YOU ALL.

happy growing


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## Gixxerman420 (Mar 24, 2011)

Jericho said:
			
		

> Stressing the plant to the point it thinks its going to die is when it hermie's. Femmed seeds are more prone to this due to how they are breed.
> 
> 
> Teddy.
> You may just be cutting off too many leaves/ branches at a time.


:yeahthat::goodposting: Taking too much off at one time will certainly cause them to herm... Sounds like your "mother" is a shemale though bro! If all your cuttings for three grows have hermed (if I read correctly) than chances are the plant your cuttings are coming from has hermed on you!


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## Gixxerman420 (Mar 24, 2011)

Bleek187 said:
			
		

> hmm.. i always buy fem seeds and ive never had one hermy on me yet.. they have all been full female and grown great. next time buy from a more popular seed bank or something


I have had similar experiences... I ALWAYS order from Nirvana seeds through attitude seed bank for my femms though... Where you get yours Bleek?


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## Roddy (Mar 24, 2011)

It happens...I've had a fem seed turn out straight up male.


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## Jericho (Mar 25, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> It happens...I've had a fem seed turn out straight up male.



Same here, Just a chance you take.


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## teddy d (Mar 25, 2011)

i only grew 2 of these fem seeds out and were both female which made me extatic cuz i had nothing but male before that. but it seems to come with to high a price. and those two seeds are wherer all the other cuttings of this train came from.

LETS SAY: you bought fem seeds and they did not have a hermie trait BUT  you stressed the orig mothers (seed grown) and then the hermie trait appeared, and is passed along to the cuttings and so forth...

if the orig seed moms were never subjected to stress could this be avoided?

i know weak genetics should just be avoided so why bother with " what if "
but im just asking purely from a botany stand point.


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## frankcos (Mar 26, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> It happens...I've had a fem seed turn out straight up male.


I had a $18 lowlife auto fem blueberry seed end up male on me last year. I was refunded with a coupon code of equal value.


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## Hick (Mar 27, 2011)

teddy... the cuts will 'always' have the exact same propensity to hermie that their donor/mother has.


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## Oldtyme (Mar 30, 2011)

Soooooooo....... it's ok to trim a few leaves here & there?  
I ask because I have some sort of indica type plant (I dunno....this is it's 3 - 4th generation...smells like lemons) and with my new light it's growing like a mad dog. Big fat leaves.  I did a little bit of LST to it & it did fine....I even took the tie-down off & she stayed put, but the big fat leaves are definitely blocking a lot of light down low. 
Thanks


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