# First grow



## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

As the title says its my first grow, ever. So any help from experienced growers would be gratefully appreciated. I'm using 2 2700k CFLs one is 13w 40w eq (I think) 900 lumens and a bigger one 23w 1600 lumens. Then I have 2 basic fluorescent tubes each 40 of cool white light(I'm assuming 6500k, but they don't say. They look yellow in the pictures but they're not. I also have an air purifier if it'll help, tomorrow I'm going to get some 6500k CFLs cuz I'm vegging as you can see. I plan to leave these in there original containers as to keep them smaller and more compact. I'm using bagseed BTW and have no idea what strain, this is for personal practice and use, before I spend any extra cash from a seed bank. My daytime humidity and temp is attached as an image, at night it drops about 10°f humidity stays about the same. Again any help would be great.


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## Hackerman (Apr 30, 2014)

I don't know about growing in a jar. The soil needs to drain and breath. The flower pot probably has a hole in the bottom but I'm guessing the can doesn't.

Although, I don't know if I would move them in this stage.

You'll get more input shortly.


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## Locked (Apr 30, 2014)

This set up will not work for long.  Trying to do a Micro grow on your very first grow is nuts. The glass jars won't let water drain and it won't be long before your plants get angry and go south.  Proper soil and pot drainage is necessary for healthy plants.   As for vegging and then flowering in one tiny container, not going to work.   Not to mention bag seed is usually pretty unstable and prone to hermi tendencies.   I would read through the stickies in the growers resource thread and get your supplies set up. Then buy some cheap beans from Nirvana and give it a go.   jmo


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

@Hamster Lewis I'm buying all new supplies tomorrow, including 2gal pots, any other recommendations I have organic soil and am going to use baking soda as pH up and distilled vinegar as pH down. What's the best plant food to use, I know to use half of whatever is recommended on the box/bag and I want the dry powder I can mix with water at home. And Nirvana or CannabisSeeds? Or possibly Ilovegrowing marijuana.com


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

Also remember I'm using bagseed as to not waste money on good seeds and mess them up because I'm inexperienced at growing


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## Rosebud (Apr 30, 2014)

If you use all organic you don't need to ph anything. I don't recommend vinegar and soda. They don't really have a place in an organic grow that I know of.

Fox Farm Happy frog is a good fertilizer. Root tone starter food is a good food.  Happy frog has nutrients (nutes)  that will last three weeks. 

 If you can get some good seeds not from a bag do. Sometimes bag seed will hermaphrodite.   

THere are a lot of great grower that will walk you thru your grow.... Read all the stickys in each forum and ask questions.  We are here for you.  Don't over water. Hamster Lewis has given you good advice, as always.

Someone else will talk about your lights.


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks rosebud. I'm going supplies shopping tomorrow. What if I can't find fox farm happy frog or root tone, alternatives? And I have a question about my temperature/humidity. My temp with lights on is 80f and humidity is only at 40% shouldn't it be higher? And temp lower? How would I go about adjusting these variables to a better level all at once, like a dehumidifier/humidifier that also adjust the temp of the room. It stays warmer in the closet than the rest of my room


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

And does that mean I have to replace the soil every three weeks, or start using the plant food after 3 weeks?


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

I hope someone does talk about lights soon, I have to use CFLs there's no question there, yes smaller yields, but smaller space. What wattage should I get and how many bulbs. And splitters? 
Its funny, its called weed, but it needs so much more TLC haha


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## Rosebud (Apr 30, 2014)

I put a little of the BIO=tone plant starter food in the bottom of my pot, then I add Happy frog soil.  That will last till you flower her with nothing added but water.  Amazon delivers soil. 

Your temps are fine and so is your humidity. You have to have good drainage. Don't water that seedling till it is dry to the touch when you poke your finger in the soil to the first knuckle.  The excess water needs to run out the bottom of the pot or you will seriously drown your plant.


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

Thanks again Rosebud. Good to know I can always buy the organic soil from amazon. When I buy my pots tomorrow I'll be lining the bottom with food like you said.  When I get my new CFLs should I keep some warm whites on along with the cool white? What about the fluorescent tubes, will I even need them anymore. Since this is really just for practice I'm fine with hermies/males, I can keep the males for cloning if I want am I right, as long as I keep it in veg cycle and not flower


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## Rosebud (Apr 30, 2014)

Males are not good for anything but pollen. They have no THC in them..why would you clone a male?

The best lights in my opinion to use for veg is T5's  You can put the lights very close to the plants and they plants love um. they come in 4 foot lengths and I have a couple of smaller ones...2 feet maybe...

What soil are your plants in now?


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

Idk why I said cloning the males, I meant keep them to pollinate a mother plant. For 2 of them I'm using Harvest super powered organic soil w/fert
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 the smallest one is in wonder soil as an experiment, I thought the seed was a lost cause anyways it took so long to germ. Anyways the soil attached is what used for the other 2


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## MrTooHigh (Apr 30, 2014)

I think I'm already using T5s  not sure. They're the long, mines 4ft, fluorescents? Mine are 40w and there's 2. So a total of 80w for the one light fixture


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 1, 2014)

I am going to talk about lighting (the most important part of your grow).  Why do you HAVE TO use CFLs?  CFLs are the most expensive of all the lights we use to grow and the least efficient--lumen for lumen, they cost more initially, they cost more to operate, they put out more heat, and they produce substantially less.

Do not buy any more CFLs, unless you want to use them for household lighting.  The light you have now is only going to be good for a few weeks.  After that you are going to have a real space set up.  You will want a space that is sized to the size grow you want.  Your lighting needs are figured by sq ft.  For vegging you want a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft and for flowering a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft.  So, if you have 4' tube lighting, you would need a space at least 4' x 2'.  That is 24,000 lumens for veg and 40,000 for flowering.  Start counting how many CFLs that is going to take and what it is going to cost to operate them....and then you get to figure out to get rid of the heat.

Your tube lights are not T5s--they are probably T8s.  T5s are small diameter tubes, 5/8" in diameter, that are high output.  They put out about 50% more usable light per watt than other tube lighting or CFLs.  A 54W T5 emits 5000 lumens.

If you keep a mother plant it is to take clones from.  Bersides you really want to get rid of the bagseed as quickly as you can.  The cost of quality seeds is a minor investment when you consider what it takes to take a plant from seed to cured bud.  You will have about 4-5 months involved.  You are going to have to spend hundreds on equipment (at a minimum).  You will spend hundreds of hours taking care of your plants.  You will spend money on good soil, nutrients, etc.  It is an incredible disappointment if you end up with a bunch of low quality low producing seeded bud after all that work.  As a new grower, your chances of your plants hermying is far greater.  And only 1 needs to hermy to ruin the entire crop.

I would like to urge you to do some more reading and studying.  The more you know about good growing conditions and the more you are able to utilize it, the better your grow weill be.  There really is as whole lot to this growing indoors.


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

Thanks Hemp goddess, I checked last night an my lights are the old, inefficient t12s. Is there any way to practice growing without wasting time, or should I just wait, it just sucks cuz I've already gotten the plants this far, just to pull them out. Plus if I learn to grow CFLs won't HIDs be easier to use since I'll probably only need 1 about 400w. What about the extreme amount of heat they produce my attic is colder right now but if I get an mh for vegging and an HPS for budding/flowering will it warm up my grow area enough( its about 60-65f) What about ventilation can I just use a dual exhaust fan that can exchange old and new air at the same time?


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

I was just trying to avoid my attic cuz there's no stairs only a pull down latter, whereas my closet is just a few feet away and easier to maintain


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

I found an MH online for about $30 minus shipping if they charge for it. They have an HPS for a few dollars more, but won't need that until budding. Both are 1000w. What do I need to use these, certainly not the regular household socket I have a bulb I got from an outside light we don't use
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is this an MH? The light was bright white/blueish


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

BTW the one I have is only 175w


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

I researched, it definitely is an MH. Now my question is will it work and what do I have to do to get it to work


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

This is why I wanted to just use CFLs they're ready and don't require much electical skills. HIDs need all kinds of rigging just to make it work, never mind ideal growing conditions(exhaust, temp, Rh, etc.)


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

You are going to have to use the fixture that the bulb came out of or try and find a 175w external MH ballast for that light. I don't know if they exist.


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

How big is your closet and what is the temp in the room,that 60 to 65 sounds nice for intake air to cool your space.


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

Thanks, well I guess I'll just spend the $30 on the 100w MH. I don't have the light it came with anymore. Is the 1000w different I'll link the page http://gro-kart.com/bulbs.html?gclid=CJ35kfOki74CFeMSOgodq24AhQ


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

1000w not 100


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

Need to know size of grow space and temp of the room you have the closet in since that is where you will be getting your intake air to cool your grow space.


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

Here is a video that might explain ballasts.[ame="http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OrQGjj1WP0&list=PLU7kTTChjkYMjMRmUmR1Qp7JjDpF7R387"]http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_OrQGjj1WP0&list=PLU7kTTChjkYMjMRmUmR1Qp7JjDpF7R387[/ame]


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

You have to spend more on the ballast than the bulb itself, idk. Any good CFLs grow guides. Eventually I want an hid setup but for now, its just for personal use and people have had good success with CFLs when done right. Can someone link me a guide for cfl growing? I don't need a huge harvest anywayd . I'll only have 3, maybe 4 plants at a time. Only looking for a few ounces from each.( when I get real seeds) for now like an oz or 2 per plant


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

My space is 64"h 20"d 48"w


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

Yes it takes some money to get started but it is worth it in the long run. You won't get an oz or two with cfl's. I was going to do a T5 grow just for fun but I came to my senses and stayed with the HID. I think another lighting option for you is led lighting, inexpensive low heat all in one unit. No ballasts to buy, led's last for years. What is your budget.


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

Right now my plants are on a TV tray under my fluros. I posted a pic of my temp yesterday. It doesn't change much during light period. Rh went up to 50% tho


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

Did you change your pots yet? that is the first thing you have to do, the containers need drainage holes. You cannot continue untill you do that.


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

MrTooHigh, if you isist on using cfl's use ones with 2800k for flower and 6500k for veg. Keep your temps below 80, 75 is good average, 50 % humidity is ok. Keep the humidity down when you are in flower and keep a fan blowing for air circulation.


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## MR1 (May 1, 2014)

How much money do you have to play with?


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 1, 2014)

MrTooHigh said:


> Thanks Hemp goddess, I checked last night an my lights are the old, inefficient t12s. Is there any way to practice growing without wasting time, or should I just wait, it just sucks cuz I've already gotten the plants this far, just to pull them out. Plus if I learn to grow CFLs won't HIDs be easier to use since I'll probably only need 1 about 400w. What about the extreme amount of heat they produce my attic is colder right now but if I get an mh for vegging and an HPS for budding/flowering will it warm up my grow area enough( its about 60-65f) What about ventilation can I just use a dual exhaust fan that can exchange old and new air at the same time?


 
 You still have some real misconceptions about CFLs and HPS lighting.  You might have missed this in my post--lumen for lumen CFLs will run hotter than HPS.  You are not going to be able to run inadequate light and get anything.  So, this means that you are still going to need 3000 lumens per sq ft for vegging.  Like I mentioned if you have a space 4 x 2, that is 8 sq ft and requires 24,000 lumens.  Just that small space is going to require 15 23W (1600 lumen) CFLs using 345W--you will need more for flowering.  Now imagine the heat that many lights are going to produce in that little space, plus the money for sockets, reflectors, cords.

 Attics present a whole lot of problems in the summer.  You are not going to be able to grow in the attic unless you can bring air conditioned air into your space.  Attics can and do get extremely hot, hot like 120-130 degrees.  I am going to try and discourage you from attempting to grow in the attic.

 Have company....more later.  Oh, how much money do you have to spend on this project?  This will help us try to figure out how to make this work for you.


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## Locked (May 1, 2014)

Oh if only it was as easy as putting them under a couple cfls. It's not though.  I  agree with THG,  I think you have some misconceptions and high expectations.   I tried growing in my attic once,  once was enough. To tough unless it's the dead of Winter.


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## MrTooHigh (May 1, 2014)

Sorry its taken so long to get back to you guys. I have little to no experience growing, I don't disagree that I have misconceptions, I'm just a beginner. Tomorrows pay day so I'll let you know what I've got to work with first thing I'm getting is pots. Also don't LEDs produce less lumens than CFLs for the same wattage? Or is it more. Are there special grow LEDs that produce more lmn per w


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 1, 2014)

We are here to help you learn.  There really is quite a large learning curve to this growing stuff.  And this is the beginning.

LEDs are in kind of a different class of lights over the HIDs and fluoros.  I don't know a whole lot about them (they are still a little above my price range).  LEDs got bad rep from the start partially because overzealous salespersons made impossible claims that could not be achieved.  For example, a 90W UFO will not take the place of a 400W HPS.  We have a grower here that is very successful with LEDs.  He designed his own lights and had them custom made to his specifications.  He has some phenomenal results.  However his lighting system is way out of my reach.  Good LEDs are still a little costy, although they are getting better.

Pots and soil are a good choice for your next purchase.  Depending on what you end up with, you may have to amend it.  You will be able to add things a little at a time for a bit.  You will be okay with lower light for a little bit.  You will want to keep the bulbs as close as you can to the tops of the plants without burning them.  This will discourage stretch until you are able to get more/better lighting, which will be your next major concern.  Try to find a space you can use that is not attic space.  I have a vegging space (2 x 4) in a closet in my bedroom.  My flowering closet (3 x 6.5) was originally 2 3x 3 closets.  I made it into 1 closet accessible from my master bathroom only.  The attic is going to present problems that I do not believe that you will be abler to overcome as the weather gets warmer.  A tent is another option if you have a small space to put one.


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

Is this a good buy? hxxp://m.ebay.com/itm?itemId=190925153951


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

OK so today I have $100 to spend, what should I be getting with that? Pots lights and plant food?


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

Well nobody answered so i got what I thought was best for my budget
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




4 daylight CFLs 20w 70w eq. (I know that just means more light penetration than a regular 20w, but still) more of the same organic fertilizer, a timer, plant food(Npk 1:1:1), tho the soil comes with fert that last about 2 weeks, soil moisture measurer (the worms) and auto release plant water bulb, 3 pots that come with auto watering reservoir(that mimics outside soil aeration/growth) overall I'm happy with my purchase and think it'll be worth it in the end.


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## Rosebud (May 2, 2014)

Ok, so all i can add is to take out the water bulbs... Cannabis needs a wet/ dry cycle.


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

Okay. I was planning on it once the soil was moist enough, or the bulb ran out of water. Whichever came first. I have to anyways or I'll drown my babies, should I still take them out now, or just wait until soil is moist


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## Locked (May 2, 2014)

MrTooHigh said:


> should I still take them out now, or just wait until soil is moist



I would remove them.  A good wet dry cycle can really speed up your growth in veg.  I am not a fan of those bulbs unless you need to be gone for an extended period and you can't be there to water. 

You want to keep the lights as close as possible without burning them. If in doubt put the back of your hand at the same distance as the plants. If you feel discomfort or pain then they are too close.


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

Thing is I only have one light fixture and 3 plants.


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

I do have 2 2-way light socket splitters


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

Well 3 but 1 has to stay on the first light fixture


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## Hackerman (May 2, 2014)

I think if I had $100 and I wanted to get started growing the very first thing I would buy is:

400w dimmable ballast
air cooled hood
HPS bulb

I see these brand new on eBay all day long for $100

I think I remembered you saying your room was small so I would definitely get the DIMMABLE type of ballast. It should help control the heat a little. 

After I got that hung up and turned on, I would start with the problems that will crop up. Like too much heat. So, then, I might turn down the ballast a little and start looking for ways to ventilate.

Each time you take a step, a new step (and a new problem) will be presented. That's what makes it fun.


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

I'm doing CFLs my first go, then his bulbs MH for veg HPS for flwr, that'll be when I buy feminized seeds. For now i m learning how to maintain the plant, with the incentive of some smoke lol


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## MrTooHigh (May 2, 2014)

No doubt at all that hids are superior to all others, but also not the cheapest up front


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## 000StankDank000 (May 3, 2014)

Look for the stuff used Bro.
I got a air cooled hood and 400watt HPS hortilux bulb for $60 the ballast 1000watt dimable $100 . 6" filter fan $180 new 4x4 tent $125 one inch frame. Full up and running $600 that's after seeds soil etc. 

This stuff can be re sold down the road CFL not so much


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## MrTooHigh (May 3, 2014)

That's good, you paid 465 for all yours, I only had 100. That would get me your bulb. But I found d a cheaper one anyways(on by 30) like I said HID is most expensive up front


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 3, 2014)

Actually you got some very good answers...  

"...I know that just means more light penetration than a regular 20w..."  Just so you know, that is not what that means.  It means that the human eye sees the equivalent of a 70W incandescent bulb.  For growing purposes, it really doesn't mean anything.  Three bulbs are 60W putting out somewhere around 3500 lumens.

Like the others have mentioned, get rid of the glass bulbs.  I would even consider removing from the self-watering planters.  YOU want to be in control of how much water and nutrients they receive.  Your soil looks rather barky and dense.  Just because it is organic soil does not mean that it is good soil or that it does not need to be amended.  I believe that you are going to din problems with the amount of bark and the density.  Dense soil keeps the roots waterlogged.  They also did not need to be transplanted in pots that large yet.  It is harder to give the correct amount of water when tiny plants are in a large container.  I believe that you are going to need to add perlite to your soil.  I would also look for a source of soil that less bark and more dark rich soil.  If your soil has nutrients, you will not need to add nutrients for a while.  However when you do, all purpose plant food does not work well.  For vegging you need something higher in N and K and low in P.  During flowering you need something low in N and higher in P.  If you don't know if a certain fertilizer is right, go online and look at the N-P-K of commercial nutrients formulated for cannabis.  Organics and chemical nutrients do not co-exist.  You are either organic or you are not.  Chemical can and do kill the beneficials in organic soil.

How big a space are you planning on growing in?  You are going to need a whole whole lot more light.  When you get enough CFLs to be adequately lit, you are going to be generatring some real heat, which is going to have to be dealt with.  It would be wonderful if we could grow dank bud with just 3 or 4 20W CFLs, but we can't.  I know this is a learn how to grow experience, but without adequate lighting and ventilation, it really be a rather fruitless endeavor.  WEhen you start adding up how many CFLs and howe many sockets and reflectors and cords you are going to need, I think you will see the cost savings of a HPS.  CFLs are simply not cheaper.  It is just easier to be underlit as you have multiple lights.  You have to have enough light, regardless of the source.


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## MrTooHigh (May 3, 2014)

I read somewhere in these forums that the equivalent watts means more penetration, if not whoever posted it should edit it, they shouldn't post "facts" unless they've been proven. 
OK now that I got that out of the way let's move on. I took the bulbs out , what about the reservoir? If if it does detach I have to put something under it so it cant leak. As for my soil, would sifting out the bark work? I can't buy new supplies for a while now, so what I bought will have to do until I can go buy more equipment. As for my pots someone else told me I need to put them in 5 gal pots, mines only like 1 or 2, and it's still too much? I posted the specs on my space earlier, if I have to I can take out the shelf above, but how do you ventilate a closet? I have to keep a comforter over the doors just to keep light in/out cuz of the style of my doors. I had a fan blowing on low(for the heat and I heard its supposed to help strengthen the stem) and one of my plants fell over, I got it standing up now, but idk if it'll be permanently damaged.
 It may be hard to grow on a budget, but I'm determined to do it.


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## Rosebud (May 3, 2014)

The fan needs to gently blow the plants ,not a gust.


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## Hackerman (May 3, 2014)

MrTooHigh said:


> It may be hard to grow on a budget, but I'm determined to do it.



Shoot, my first grow was with a couple $5 shop lights. I grew some awesome pot like that for years. The quantity was very minimal but the quality was very good.

HID lights simply make everything so much bigger. LOL


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 3, 2014)

Plants can stay in smaller pots for quite a while.  I have babies that are 4-5" inches tall with 4 or 5 sets each.  They are vegging happily in Solo cups (red kegger cups).  

Fans that strengthen the stems and more the air around are different fans than you need for heat control.  Heat actually has to be removed--you need an exhaust fan of some kind that will remove the heat and duct it to another place.

I understand wanting to grow on a budge, but you are going to have to be able to afford the basic minimums or it simply is not going to work.  You are absolutely going to have to have more light, lots more light.  You need an exhaust fan to deal with the heat and you need good soil and nutrients.  It is possible to grow good pot under fluoros, but you still have to have enough of them to do the job.  

Try to get creative.  I build a dual 150W HPS for about $25 from 2 yard security lights I got at a garage sale and put it together with some other things I either bought or already had.  I now had 300W of HPS for very cheap and because they were in glass tubes they were very easy to cool.  There are bargains out there.  You can sometimes find T5s like at places like Habitat for Humanity Restore.

You are going to have to have a space that you will be able to make 100% dark for flowering.  You do have a while before you need this, but try to plan for it now.  I built a grow space in one of my closets.  I'll post up some pics when I can.  It was easy to construct and I used materials from a packing crate I got free.  There are a lot of bargains out there.  Look for them and think creatively.


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## MrTooHigh (May 3, 2014)

Do you think if I put cardboard over the door cracks that it'll keep the light out. Another problem I have is the exhaust fan, idk how I'd rig it up in my closet


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## Hackerman (May 4, 2014)

I usually use weatherstripping. Cardboard and duct tape might ghetto the job done.

As far as venting.... what's above the ceiling in the closet?


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 4, 2014)

Cardboard over the door cracks will not work for flowering.  It simply will not keep a space 100% dark and it would be quite hard to open and close the doors to tend the plants.  Bi-fold doors and bi-pass doors cannot be made light tight.  If it is a regular door into a walk-in type closet, weatherstripping can sometimes be used to make it light tight.  Otherwise you are absolutely going to have to build a box in the closet (or elsewhere) or use a tent.


Do you own your home or rent?  I guess the question is, can you drill holes in things?  Let me know and we will talk about ventilating your closet.


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## DrFever (May 4, 2014)

Do they still make CFL bulbs ???  I know that in Canada  they  stopped  using them   being non environmentally friendly   cause of the little mercury in them ???   is  or has USA followed  this route yet  ,,,, 

starting to think when inducing  pre -flowering  / flowering stage    its got to do with more of  how many  hrs of  lighting plant receives,
 I mean  last night i was outside 2 AM  and my god it was lit up by the moon  , stars  etc 
 yet i think  how many outdoor plants   tend to  Fruit marijuana included 
so my conclusion is  as long as you switch and maintain  a constant  12 hrs of lights on  and 12 hrs of  darkness  plants will  fruit  
  even with indirect light   such as a bedroom light  entering a closet    the plant will flower ,???? think of it this  way  you got a 100 watt light bulb 10 feet away  will it grow a plant ???? from that distance .... 
Phototropism  is the plants movement in response to light   even with light leaks  i can/t see a plant lean towards the light   try to get your area as dark as possible    
Now if you have a strain that is not very stable    it might take a little longer to flip to flower, or even   hermie on you ,  Dam i remember  when i first started  growing mj owe  room  had to be dark blaa bla  hell   when it was watering days  i took me 9 hrs to water  my girls i would start   middle of lights off period  so i would not be  up all night long  watering  and i turned on  a light switch  not a ballast   they  flowered  with no issues


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## Hackerman (May 4, 2014)

If you can afford a small tent, and have a place to put it, that is definitely the way to go.


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## Locked (May 4, 2014)

Don't know how much space you have but a *4x4x6.5 foot tent is like 110 bucks* free shipping on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/48x48x78-10...2586546?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item20cfa405b2


*2'x4'x5' GROW TENT ROOM 99 bucks free shipping*

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2x4x5-GROW-...5321585?pt=US_Hydroponics&hash=item5d4b4d63f1


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## DrFever (May 4, 2014)

thats  cheap i  like the 600DD  might have to  get one of these  do they all come in  silver lining ???


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## MrTooHigh (May 4, 2014)

I found even cheaper ones like 73 for my closet


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## MrTooHigh (May 4, 2014)

Yes they all have mylar lining


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 5, 2014)

I have a small 32 x 32 that tucks into one corner of my bedroom.  I do not use it all the time, but as I remember, it was in the $75 price range, too.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Found a good bulb going to get 2 of them. http://www.garvinindustries.com/Lig...s/C105651MED?gclid=CLK1icW8k74CFe9r7AodMzkA_A
Will it work good


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## Locked (May 5, 2014)

2 of those will give you 12,800 lumens and cost you 48.00.  Should help, but I prefer HO T5's like this>>>http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/141155160495?lpid=82

&#9835;&#9835;&#9835;


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

I'm going to get whatever is cheaper as long as it works plus I have to get a $70 grow tent. Then those t5 won't even be useful cuz I have to get a smaller tent.


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## Locked (May 5, 2014)

What size tent are you getting? My T5 set up fits perfectly in a 2x4x5 tent.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Probably 32x32x62


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

I think I'll stick with basic CFLs, buying those t5s are twice as much and I still have to buy the grow tent


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## MR1 (May 5, 2014)

They also make a 2 footer for the tent you want, only a few bucks more than the cfl's. Wait and save some more money or borrow a few bucks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Deformable-2FT-T5-Grow-Light-4x-6500K-24-Hydroponics-Fluorescent-Bulb-Veg-Lamp-/380896945222?_trksid=p2054897.l5662


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Thanks MR1, that's much more reasonable, and I'm going to get a tent that's 2'x2'x4.5' instead. How many lumens will the whole light produce?


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## Locked (May 5, 2014)

MrTooHigh said:


> How many lumens will the whole light produce?




Those 2 foot bulbs put out 2000 lumens per bulb. That whole set up will only get you 8000 lumens. 4 foot bulbs put out 5000 lumens per bulb.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

http://m.ebay.com/itm/251338673063?nav=SEARCH&varId=550281125384 same thing just buy it now not auction. But all together it only produces 8000lmn while a 4ft² tent requires 12000 lmn my CFLs would cover that easy producing 12800 lmn. I would have to disagree with you, unless t5s are miracle fluorescents and cover more light than the website says. 4 t5s don't even come close to the CFLs I found. And for flwrn I'm gonna use the same kind of CFLs but its 2700k and produces 7000lmn per bulb


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

I just don't see why I'd pay more for less


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

BTW my plants so far.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Is the first one a lost cause or what? Its older than the other 2


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## Locked (May 5, 2014)

MrTooHigh said:


> http://m.ebay.com/itm/251338673063?nav=SEARCH&varId=550281125384 same thing just buy it now not auction. But all together it only produces 8000lmn while a 4ft² tent requires 12000 lmn my CFLs would cover that easy producing 12800 lmn. I would have to disagree with you, unless t5s are miracle fluorescents and cover more light than the website says. 4 t5s don't even come close to the CFLs I found. And for flwrn I'm gonna use the same kind of CFLs but its 2700k and produces 7000lmn per bulb





4 foot HO T5 bulbs produce 5000 lumens per bulb.

If your space was 36x36 you would need 27,000 lumens total for veg.

Same space would need 45,000 lumens total for veg.

Those two bulbs you are going to get will get you 12,800 lumens total.   That is enough lumens for a 2x2 space. That is a pretty small grow space.  Where do you plan to flower at? You won't be able to get by in a 2x2 space with 1 plant let alone more. I think veg will be tough with more than one.  And putting that many lumens in a small space during flower will mean you will really need some good ventilation and exhaust.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Oh so the t5s are costly cuz their more efficient, not by lumens but by the heat they produce. But still like you said a 3'x3' would take 27000 lmn while the 4 ft t5s produce 5000 per bulb I'd need 6 bulbs not 4. That's going to cost a lot more. I plan on growing my plants no more than 1.5ft so to do that I'll flower at 8 in and use LST and/or HST for best results(most yield)I was thinking maybe scrog. I need some method that'll work (lights/tent combo) good for under $175. I'll worry about ventilation when I get to it, one step at a time. I wasn't joking I really am on a strict budget for this. I've seen people successfully grow a good amount on a budget on here, it can be done, it just needs to be explained how it was done. Shoot, some people even grow never even purchasing nutes and just using general potting soil. So how? How can they do this successfully basically feeding it water and light?


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## Locked (May 5, 2014)

MrTooHigh said:


> Oh so the t5s are costly cuz their more efficient, not by lumens but by the heat they produce. But still like you said a 3'x3' would take 27000 lmn while the 4 ft t5s produce 5000 per bulb I'd need 6 bulbs not 4. That's going to cost a lot more. I plan on growing my plants no more than 1.5ft so to do that I'll flower at 8 in and use LST and/or HST for best results(most yield)I was thinking maybe scrog. I need some method that'll work (lights/tent combo) good for under $175. I'll worry about ventilation when I get to it, one step at a time. I wasn't joking I really am on a strict budget for this. I've seen people successfully grow a good amount on a budget on here, it can be done, it just needs to be explained how it was done. Shoot, some people even grow never even purchasing nutes and just using general potting soil. So how? How can they do this successfully basically feeding it water and light?



HO T5's produce less heat and are pretty efficient.  Another good thing about them is they can be brought right down on top of your plants because they don't produce lots of heat.  The result is you can actually get by in veg with under 3000 lumens per square foot. I have 20,000 lumens in a space that needs 24,000. (2x4) and they plants till grow tight and bushy. 

Yes growing on a tight budget can be done, it is not easy though as your techniques need to be on when growing in smaller spaces. Which typically successful small budget grows are.  As far as getting by with just potting soil...not gonna happen. The best case scenario is making it through a grow with those MG time release nutrients in the soil.  This does not work for most though. Those soils suck for growing MJ.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

I have good organic soil anyways so I don't have to worry about that. So if I wanted to get a 32" x32" 63" how would I make that work with t5s? Should I try to find a slightly bigger tent or use 2ft lights?


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## Locked (May 5, 2014)

If you are really limited on budget and space I would look at growing 1 plant that I knew would be female. This way you could get by with a smaller grow space, and that means less lumens needed, less heat etc.     Some places sell by the bean.  Maybe you could get a fem bean of a heavy leaning Indica that would stay small for you and be done in 7-8 weeks of flower?  HO T5's for veg and Flower if the space was small enough. Or a small HPS?  I just don't want to see you put all the effort in and be disappointed. This can be done on the cheap and you will get okay smoke. But even that has it's limits. Some basic things have to be met.   

I started off thinking I could do this whole thing with 2 giant CFL bulbs and quickly realized that was not going to be the case.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Well I want to keep growing it out until I know the sexes of all plants. Then dispose of the ones I don't want. Could you take a look at my latest pictures. I have one play that still has not sprouted its true leaves and there's really no sign of anything coming in, should I just ditch the plant that would also cut down the space I need to grow. It has two white things ( extremely small, would only be able to see it in person and if you had good eyes) coming out the stem where the true leaves should be. Its the oldest plant that's why the lack of progression worries me. BTW I changed my light setup
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (for a fuller spectrum) or should I switch back


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## Locked (May 5, 2014)

Yeah I wouldn't carry that seedling any longer. It could make it but even if it did, from the looks of it it would take some time.   
In veg you want to go with the bluer spectrum. The orange comes into play in flowering.  Not sure it would hurt much to leave it but if you have another bluer bulb I would switch till flower.


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## MrTooHigh (May 5, 2014)

Ok. Thanks yes I do have a bluer bulb I just wanted to see what you guys think I've heard people use a mixture but if its better to use straight daylight for veg and soft white for flwr then so be it lol


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 6, 2014)

Is it possible for you to build a small space out of wood?  There are a whole lot of places that they just give packing crates away.  They come in all different sizes.  Like I mentioned before, start pouring over Craig's List, check out some garage sales, thrift stores, that kind of thing.  You can find some good bargains.  If you want to do this on a budget, you are going to have to be resourceful and be prepared to DIY some stuff. 

T5s *are* more efficient lumen wise.  Most CFLs put out 62-69 lumens per watt.  T5s put out 92 lumens per watt.  So more useable light for less wattage is more efficiency.


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## MrTooHigh (May 6, 2014)

I have a LOT of plywood, just let me know how to make it. And t5s are good but not if you need a lot just to get the job done which I would for anything that's more than 4 sq ft. 

Anyways look at my irrigation setup lolView attachment uploadfromtaptalk1399433036503.jpg
 BTW I bought a 4 pack of 23w 1600Lmn 6500k CFLs too


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## MrTooHigh (May 6, 2014)

Those are the exact same pictur


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## MrTooHigh (May 7, 2014)

View attachment uploadfromtaptalk1399505213776.jpg
View attachment uploadfromtaptalk1399505222594.jpg


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## MrTooHigh (May 8, 2014)

Is this okay?View attachment uploadfromtaptalk1399573413182.jpg
 The color of the stem is so dark


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## Locked (May 8, 2014)

Doesn't look bad to me but that soil looks awful barky.


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## MrTooHigh (May 8, 2014)

There's not much I can do about that. And fox farm is really expensive for soil, is there any cheaper alternatives that work good also? Or like I said I could sift out the bark


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## Locked (May 8, 2014)

MrTooHigh said:


> There's not much I can do about that.



You ultimately have control over the soil you use. Crappy soil will only lead to problems.  As for nutrients, I use General Hydroponic. It is well priced and works great.


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## MrTooHigh (May 8, 2014)

But when you have a budget it's hard to buy "top of the line" soil. I have organic soil with a good ratio of npk, as for nutes I'll have to but some


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## Hackerman (May 8, 2014)

I use plain old Garden Magic  top soil. About $4 for 50 pounds. I mix it with vermiculite and perlite.

Doesn't get much cheaper than that.


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## MrTooHigh (May 9, 2014)

That's kinda what I have, so if I mix vermiculite it'll be better? There's already perlite in it


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 9, 2014)

No, do not mix with vermiculite.  Your soil is too dense and heavy as it is, adding vermiculite would make it hold more water.  Just because soil has a good N-P-K ratio, does not make it good for growing.  If you add anything it should be perlite.  There have to be better soil choices out there though--that really looks to be almost all bark.  A good soil is the basis for a good grow.  I use an organic soil that I get from HD and amend it, but it is only available in the NW part of the US.  It is $6 for 1.5 cubic feet.  I am sure other stores have something similar. 

"...And t5s are good but not if you need a lot just to get the job done which I would for anything that's more than 4 sq ft..."   You have misconceptions about T5s.  It is going to take you 50% more wattage if you are using CFLs over T5s.  And when you get enough CFLs to do the job (scrimping on light results in little to no bud) you have a ton of them in your space.  You need cords, thed bulbs themselves, reflectors--CFLs are not cheaper, they are not better, regardless of the size of your grow.

Like we have mentioned before, this is a hobby that does take some money.  I understand being on a budget and all, but if you do not have the money for the minimum basicz, everything you do will be a waste of time energy and money.  You NEED good soil and nutes, you NEED adequate light, you NEED ventilation.  These are not optional things, these are the bare necessities we are trying to give you.  We are not trying to discourage you, but you really do need to be aware of the realities of growing.


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## MrTooHigh (May 9, 2014)

What if I make my own compost from grass clipping/leaves/sticks/etc. And add nutes and perlite to it. I'd have to burn all the stuff first but I have a compost pit in my yard filled with all kinds of organic stuff. Can using compost be done? That would be way cheaper for me. As for lights I know t5s are better, of course they are there small and don't produce much heat but they're extremely expensive, what about t8s? T5s are only like 5% more efficient (I think) either way there's not a huge difference like there is between t12s and t8s.

So compost and t8s?


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## MrTooHigh (May 9, 2014)

It sucks cuz I didn't plan ahead, which I know now that you must have all the supplies, or a means of getting them, but now I'm so far in and my plants look healthy so why would I give up on healthy plants? My soil is not extremely "barky" anyways, there's just a lot more on the top. But besides that, let's talk about nutes, npk as all growers know, is what mj needs to strive, what are some good organic foods that produce them for both veg and flower , is there one food that has all that mj needs, or do I buy separate and mix according to what stage its in? And how often do I feed, can they be foliage fed using water soluble nutes, or is that only for chemical foods? I'm not giving up here, as I get money I'll buy some better supplies, but I need supplies that will work good, and is cheap(er) too.


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## MrTooHigh (May 9, 2014)

Well I'll be making compost for myself, however its not quick. So next grow I'll probably have home made compost but not now.


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## MrTooHigh (May 9, 2014)

What if I add perlite to my mix, I looked it up and other people have used the same kind of soil, but nobody's updated to say if they've had success or not. But perlite could help loosen up the dirt right?


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## Hackerman (May 9, 2014)

Yes, Perlite will help loosen up the dirt.


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

OK thanks


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

Would I be able to determine the sex of my plant right now? Because I think one is definitely female then, unless it grows into herm, I see a little "v" thing coming out the middle(main) stem. Its too small right now to get a good picture, my phone is only 10mpx


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## Hackerman (May 10, 2014)

Can you post a picture of it?


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

View attachment uploadfromtaptalk1399740414977.jpg
 That's the best I can do


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## Hackerman (May 10, 2014)

It's too early to tell. Let it grow more.


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## Kraven (May 10, 2014)

I think this set-up would be good to learn a little about seedlings and how to take care of them, I'm not sure if you will get the results your looking for, but definitely a good first go, If you want to chat about what I have learned over the past thirty years feel free to shoot me an email, I would be glad to offer any advice you feel would benefit you.


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

@Hackerman Okay, I figured it was too early, the could just be small leaves growing, I assume.


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## Locked (May 10, 2014)

Plants are not sexually mature until they have alternating nodes.







View attachment 291660d1369103273-my-first-grow-ever-can-i-get-some-feedback-nodes.jpg


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

Thanks that makes more sense


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 10, 2014)

It is way way too early.  It will most likely be another month before you will be able to sex your plant.  New growth often looks like pistils, but like I said, that is weeks away.

Compost has to cook--sometimes for a year or so.  Compost that is too hot will fry seedling in the blink of an eye.  The trouble with trying to make organic nutrients yourself with various ingredients is that you will have to know what proportions to mix things in.  You need to know how fast everything breaks down.  You will need to make up something that has a lot of N at first and a fair amount of K and little P.  As the plant gets older, you will need to have the N almost depleted from the soil, you will have to have some kind of P that will break down at this point and you still need some K.  I do not know of any prepared nutrients made for mj that don't have different vegging and blooming formulas.  

You know what I think may be ideal for you--organic teas.  You can make organic teas out of stuff that you can most likely find.  The teas do not need to cook like compost or manures, they just need to be bubbled for a few days.  I don't know why I didn't think of it earlier  :doh:  You should be able to find teas for both vegging and flowering phases.  Most organic teas use compost, worm castings, composted manure, bone meal, molasses, kelp meal, things like that.  I like to put the ingredients in a mesh bag.  I dangle it in the water and aerate the solution for 2-4 days.  The bags should contain most of the solids so it doesn't even need to be restrained and you can just dilute and feed. 

What is the white thing in the pot?  And the red thing?


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

The thing in the bottom right is a moisture measurer, and the red thing is a wire, just for support if it needs it, its not planted deep


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0054ZFO2U/r...9763419&sr=1-6-catcorr&pi=AC_SX110_SY165_QL70 
Also would this work?


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## Locked (May 10, 2014)

I had to edit that link to get it to work.   I always add perlite to my soil mix. It's good stuff.


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## MrTooHigh (May 10, 2014)

Yeah sorry idk why the link did what it did, I posted it regularly like I have before. And okay I was just making sure that it would be good to use


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## MrTooHigh (May 11, 2014)

Obvious answer, but using straight blood and bone meal is best right? And how much to add of each and how often to feed?


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## MrTooHigh (May 11, 2014)

My blood meal would be 12-0-0 and my bone meal would be 0-10-10


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## MrTooHigh (May 11, 2014)

Today View attachment uploadfromtaptalk1399830208032.jpg
View attachment uploadfromtaptalk1399830219749.jpg

I have a feeling these are different strains. I kinda hope so haha


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## giggy (May 11, 2014)

looks like a good start. good luck.


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## MrTooHigh (May 11, 2014)

Thanks. 
So on Wednesday it will have been 2 weeks since true leaves have grown.
I know the veg stage can last as long as you want, but how long on average until its ready to flower, in weeks. I'm not letting it get bigger than 8in. But what if it doesn't look mature at 8in(or desired height)?


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (May 11, 2014)

MTH  they wont flower until they are sexually mature...   you can flip the lights when they are 8" but if they are not ready to flower they wont until they are mature enough...   depending on environment plants usually need minimum 4+ week veg to be mature and flowered...


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## MrTooHigh (May 11, 2014)

Thanks


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## giggy (May 11, 2014)

running plants 12/12 from seed i have seen them start as soon as 18 days and as late as 30 days.


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (May 11, 2014)

giggy said:


> running plants 12/12 from seed i have seen them start as soon as 18 days and as late as 30 days.



 And then what?   you reveg a clone or the plant if you like it??   

Ive run autos that weren't even flowering by day 18...?


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## Locked (May 11, 2014)

giggy said:


> running plants 12/12 from seed i have seen them start as soon as 18 days and as late as 30 days.



Those would have to be Autos.  Regular photo period strains will not start flowering or show sex in 18-30 days from seed. It's usually 4-6 weeks and alternating nodes are the sign that your plant is sexually mature. 

IMO 12/12 from seed with regular photo strains does nothing but deprive them from the very light they need to grow.


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