# LED Question



## Dman1234 (Sep 25, 2014)

Hi Everyone, so I bought an LED light and I am very impressed with the quality of the light and cant wait to see it grow.

Question is how do I use the growth and bloom switches? Im thinking i use the growth switch in veg and then leave it on and also turn on the bloom switch when in flower but im not sure. Any help would be appreciated.


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## P Jammers (Sep 25, 2014)

Typically the grow is always on, and you just turn on the extra bloom switch for bloom and run both.


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## Dman1234 (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks, thats what i thought but its good to know for sure.


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## Iron Emmett (Sep 25, 2014)

Nice man, i picked up one too, i cant wait till it gets here, this LED thing is pretty interesting.


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## P Jammers (Sep 25, 2014)

They can be great, or they can suck if you purchase the wrong ones of which there are many.

What brands did you guys go with?


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## Dman1234 (Sep 25, 2014)

I bought the same one as HL with the 144  led lights. I believe you like this one? Im just getting ready to use it but the build of light is very nice. 
While i have your attention PJ can you tell me about or direct me to some info on defoliating?


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## P Jammers (Sep 25, 2014)

Dman1234 said:


> I bought the same one as HL with the 144  led lights. I believe you like this one? Im just getting ready to use it but the build of light is very nice.
> While i have your attention PJ can you tell me about or direct me to some info on defoliating?



The topLED lights IMO are pretty good and I have one of those myself. While I wouldn't recommend it to a commercial farmer, they are certainly capable of growing a plant from start to finish. The yield will certainly be down a touch, but I would imagine you'll do just fine and for sure you will see a boost in overall heath and quality of the end product. Pheno type will be key to success.

I did a thread on training plants a while back that I know Hamster Lewis posted over here. I'll search for it, and link you if I find it.

Otherwise I'll do a thread on the technique at a later time. Bout to head out shortly.


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## Dman1234 (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks PJ.
I will have a look around for thpe thread.


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## Iron Emmett (Sep 25, 2014)

i bought the TopLed reflector as well.


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## Locked (Sep 25, 2014)

I have no complaints with that light so far.  I used it for Veg for a bit and it worked well. Right on par with HO T5's. Only major difference was they ate considerably less under the LED's.   Been using it in my 4x4 Flower Tent now.  I just started a Thread where I am going to keep all my LED Grow info and pics. 
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69487



P Jammers said:


> I did a thread on training plants a while back that I know Hamster Lewis posted over here. I'll search for it, and link you if I find it.



I will look for it as well PJ.


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## Rosebud (Sep 25, 2014)

The thing that helped me that pj said was to clear out the insides of the plant. Realizing the light penetrates 12 inches (yikes) I think, not positive, you can kinda see where the bottom fluff needs to be cut up from the bottom. I will find a picture for you.

This was my first attempt but it kinda shows you and pj said it was pretty good... lolView attachment DSCF3097.jpg


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## Iron Emmett (Sep 25, 2014)

Wow, those ladies are really stripped down, looking good.


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## Dman1234 (Sep 26, 2014)

Thanks for the info everyone, i have been doing a lot of reading on leds. I think i will try a small grow or two and then give scrog a  try, i always wanted to do a scrog anyways.


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## yooper420 (Sep 26, 2014)

ON grow #6 with my LED`s, very happy with the results. Expensive to get into, but pay for themselves in the long run. Don`t cheap out, cause that`s what you`ll get....cheap lights that give LED`s a bad name. I have 2 Advanced Diamond series 300`s. Luv `em.


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## P Jammers (Sep 27, 2014)

Here is the post I put together quite a while back Dman. I also have an ongoing LED specific thread going that I will get going on here to share info with tips and tricks using LED.

*I have been using these techniques for years, and  find they work really well on plants from seed, and I still remove most  of the lower branches on cuts. Figured I'd share this info for anyone  who does not pratice pruning, or understand why it is we do it.
*



*> How do you feel about pruning*

                                    I am strongly in favor of pruning,  and think PistilWhipt deserves great respect for popularizing the  concept with our community.



                 My rules of thumb on pruning are as follows.
                 1. Remove the bottom 3 main branch pairs, they will end  up shaded, and will produce popcorn if left on the plant.
                 2. Prune before going 12/12, not after, or at least no later than 2 weeks into 12/12
                 3. Using a model of an unpruned plant that has produced   the 7th leaf pair, topping it below the 7th pair (use the top as a   clone) 

                 and then removing the bottom 3 branch pairs (can also  be used as clones) will leave three strong branch pairs to be bloomed.
                 4. On large plants, whose 3 main branch pairs from step  3  exceed 12" in length before 12/12, each of those 3 branch pairs will   also benefit from removing the bottom 3 branch pairs...
                 It is VERY beneficial to focus plant energy into strong   shoots, and to remove any shoots that are less than 1/8" in diameter  by 2  weeks into 12/12.
                 Fat shoots make FAT buds.


*> So now I wonder about all that bottom growth - to trim or not to trim?*
                Im a big proponent of pruning here are some parameters


                 1. in my experience, the first 3 branch pairs from the   bottom are going to be thin, will get shaded, and will produce popcorn.  I  cut them off at beginning of 12/12, for use as clones for the next   cycle..
               2. if leaves are touching close to the mainstem 3 weeks   after 12/12 starts, to a point where condensation occurs overnight   between overlapping leaves, the canopy is too dense, I will remove the   first 3 pairs of shoots at the bottom of main branches, same as I treat   the mainstem..
               3. I top plants above leaf pair #6, leaving a total of 6   branches to bloom..2 weeks after topping is a good time to flip to   12/12... topping and removal of lower side branches can also be done   together, at begin 12/12.. depends on plant density how big a bush you   veg to....

*> I'm still confused whether trimming the very  bottom  branches puts more energy into the tops or diminishes overall  plant  energy which could lower yield.*


                 indoors, pruning can increase yield by focusing plant   energy into primary branches whose tops are in the effective range of   the light. In this scenario, removing lower branches that are underlit   and underperforming, reduce the amount of aggravation the grower   experiences at manicuring time.


                 arguably there is more yield from pruning, by focusing   growth hormones from the removed lower branches, into the upper   branches, making them produce fatter buds that if the plant energy were   distributed to a larger number of smaller branches..
                 if the plants are outdoors, there may be more merit to   the unpruned approach, but indoors, with limited lighting effective   distances, I think pruning to focus energy is important. 



*> Is this horizontal grow something I should shoot for.*

                  if you like scrog, yes.. I don't like to train horizontal, cause it uses up time

                  I choose to veg plants to a candelabra shape, by  pruning  as described above.. then use bamboo stakes if needed to  support the 6  remaining branches on the plant. 

*> do you suggest cutting the lower three branch's because they do not get enough light from above to produce good bud...?*


                 yes, and also because the plant has growth hormones  that  have an antigravity feature, that is, the growth hormones flee the  base  of the plant, and concentrate on the physically highest point of  the  plant 


*> or do you NEED to cut off 3 to 7 percent of the canopy period to get good results and quality bud...?*
                 in my opinion, yes, you NEED to cut off 30%-50% of the canopy


*> will the low branch's always produce medium to low quality bud even if its not popcorn...?*
                 try it and let us know what you think.. Im telling you its a waste of time..


*> also, when you say to take the top 4'' off do you mean the single highest top*
*yes, here it is by the numbers*
                 when a plant has 7 leaf pairs at the main stem, 
                 1. remove the bottom 3 pairs, and their associated shoots/branches
                 2. cut off the top of the plant below 2 pairs and the   center shoot this leaves 4 places for strong vigorous shoots to grow   into a collumnar shape. The strategy is for top lighting.. but will also   work with side lighting
                 the benefit of this aggresive prune is to create a  sturdy stem, and strong colas.. no skimpy wimpy branches flopping  around..


*> when you say [leaf pairs] do you mean to say branchs*
                 yes
                  remove the bottom 3 pairs, and their associated shoots/branches
*> do you mean to REMOVE top of the center stalk,  AND  the remove tops of the first 2 sets of branchs below the center  stalk as  well causing them to all pair off and double*
                 no
                 the strategy I outline is to produce 4 strong branches,  untopped, and to remove everything else above and below them


*> Can I still remove some of the LARGE fan leaves that are shading some of the lower buds
* 
                  that is very controversial. I lean to the don't cut   anything off side of the debate, but there are times when a little leaf   pruning can help expose lower buds. Do a little experimenting, and   decide what you like.

                  Consider the pros and cons are that removing a fan  leaf  removes the sugar factory for the bud branch where that fan leaf   attaches. Chances are you will get a fatter cola if you leave the fan   leaf on, even if lower buds don't get bigger, which they might not have   anyway, since they are on skinnier branches and further away from the   light, and further away from the top of the plant. The top of the plant   has more growth hormones than lower branches..

                  I lean towards focusing energy into fewer bigger top   colas, instead of many smaller lower buds. Hence my preference for 4-6   main branches, candelabra style.

                  Since you are at day 26, I would not cut anything else   off.. but try to learn from how densely the plants are filled in, and   watch how much canopy depth it allows.

                  you obviously mastered the horizontal fill of your   canopy, now you get to fine tune the depth of it. Yield is not just   about square feet, its also about depth.

                  Depth has to do with pruning, and letting light get between the plants.

                  It is Not ideal to have wall to wall contact between  the plants, cause that only leaves the tops to get light..

                  not sure if you get my drift.. basically, overvegging, will create a canopy with less depth.

                  having too many side branches also creates canopy with less depth

                  ideally, separate colas that are 18" tall spaced 6" apart, is the design goal of candelabra style.

                  for bush style, which is what you have right now, it  is  better for the plants not to touch each other.. yours are touching  too  much.. but you will still be very happy with what you have rising  out of  the canopy of leaves.

                I think of it that way, the colas Rise above the canopy   of leaves. Hence back to your original question, should you cut leaves,   no. Not if they are feeding cola towers.


*> I wonder, would this candalabra approach yield more than the single?* 

                  it is not for yield, its to keep the canopy from being too tall.
                  topping is a way to reduce the stretch. On a plant  that  will normally stretch 3 feet, topping it will produce a 2 foot  stretch.

                  yield comes from having the colas as close together as   possible, while still getting light penetration, because yield comes   from not just the square feet, but additionally from the depth of   canopy, to produce maximum yield volume.

                using more plants puts the colas closer together, which is good up to a limit 



*>  How do I grow sea of green best, with high plant numbers and highest bud to leaf ratio possible?*

                by pruning the lower part of the plant off by week 2 of 12/12 so only the top shoot has a chance to bud 



*> Q: When you get really energetic grow tips, what is the best way to control this?*

                  topping. although, I don't top secondary branches..  unless  you are limited by height. Any topping after 12/12 starts can   potentially reduce yield.. try to do all topping before 12/12


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## superman (Sep 28, 2014)

Yeah, LEDs work great where heat is a problem. But all LEDs are not created equal. Do some homework and get a proven brand. You'll be glad in the long run. I know people with Area-51, Onyx and Lumigrow. They love them. 
 Once you get over the weird purple glow.
  Here's my Lumigrow 325 on 2 plants in an Ebb and Flo table in week 5.





Peace, SM


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