# which 14/10 or 12/12 works best for yall?



## papabeach1 (Sep 21, 2008)

I'm trying to use the advance techique to get more ratio of females, 
by using 9 cfls, (3 cfls per hood 3 hoods) I did seprated all preflowers
maybe I think I see only 2 pre flower males not sure, I want to wait a little to get postive sexes..it has been going on 12/12 for 2 weeks, I need anyone s experinces which 14 on or 14 off /10 ethier or 12/12 works better? to get more ratio of females.. temp is cool like 70-74 not that bad..
I would like to try cloning them for the first time after get the postive sexes I ll post pics I swear!


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## papabeach1 (Sep 22, 2008)

expert indoor growers  anyone? pleaase? pretty please??


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## 4u2sm0ke (Sep 22, 2008)

try posting in the Light section...may be a start


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## 4u2sm0ke (Sep 22, 2008)

but while Im here...I flower 12/12...and Veg  18/6


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## howardstern (Sep 22, 2008)

I veg up to 24 hours per day when I am home, but turn off everything when I am not so that I don't burn the house down.

I veg up to 12 hours per day when I am home, but turn off everything when I am not so that I don't burn the house down.

I have experienced no stressed out hermie mutations from either of these practices.  Don't believe the hype!


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## papabeach1 (Sep 22, 2008)

so  no one heard about "14 on, 10 off, or 10 on, 14 off? 

if I has them on 14 on, 10 off, will it make them think they are male or, just to 
quick the process of develop the sexes?  am I better off 12/12 to do that? if I has to put them on 24 hr, they will stay in veg for long time which I will do that after find the sexes, and cloning em, maybe keep male or not  depends on strains


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## Dexter (Sep 22, 2008)

It makes no difference. They are either male or female. You will get what you are given
Dexter


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## papabeach1 (Sep 22, 2008)

Dexter said:
			
		

> It makes no difference. They are either male or female. You will get what you are given
> Dexter


 
are you sure?   there was time when I was nelegected grew outdoors in back of woods,  I grew too much herms,  and also there was lot of males..
I got only few lucks of females... yes sad man...grew too much work too hard too much buckets brung in the back of woods..  had game warrden came down to remove most of them and claim don't know who did these..

had to sit down and read some of important issues about get right ratio of sexes...now I got more females  lately..  there was other time I grew some plants in fed proptery (cant tell u where) but 3 of these places, (schools) u know? and grew in the Dorm  with soft red lights,75 watts I end up has males  and when I was that age (15) I didn't know the sexes of marijauna , I tried to understand it for few years, now I know and realized... 
maybe whats above us look after us what we do to these bearing seeds, who pay attention carefully will deserve more expects of females (thats how I do, I feels, and been though...thats way I see it)


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## King Bud (Sep 23, 2008)

> I veg up to 24 hours per day when I am home, but turn off everything when I am not so that I don't burn the house down.
> 
> I veg up to 12 hours per day when I am home, but turn off everything when I am not so that I don't burn the house down.


:huh:
You need to redesign your room so that you feel at ease about your house not burning down while you're out. What in the heck makes you so worried?


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## Dexter (Sep 23, 2008)

papabeach1 said:
			
		

> are you sure?   there was time when I was nelegected grew outdoors in back of woods,  I grew too much herms,  and also there was lot of males..
> I got only few lucks of females... yes sad man...grew too much work too hard too much buckets brung in the back of woods..  had game warrden came down to remove most of them and claim don't know who did these..
> 
> had to sit down and read some of important issues about get right ratio of sexes...now I got more females  lately..  there was other time I grew some plants in fed proptery (cant tell u where) but 3 of these places, (schools) u know? and grew in the Dorm  with soft red lights,75 watts I end up has males  and when I was that age (15) I didn't know the sexes of marijauna , I tried to understand it for few years, now I know and realized...
> maybe whats above us look after us what we do to these bearing seeds, who pay attention carefully will deserve more expects of females (thats how I do, I feels, and been though...thats way I see it)



I think I understand you now. you mean environmental factors once vegetative growth has begun?
hmmm interesting, I read in an grow book somewhere about the effects of crowding


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## papabeach1 (Sep 23, 2008)

yeah and theres forum I ve been reading in MP, let me find it...  shoot!! I couldnt find that forum I think its closed or something  its good forum though they talk about 14/10 and all that that's why Im asking anyone if has experinced with 14 on 10 off instead of 12/12 to get the proper sexes..


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## Capt. Skinx (Sep 24, 2008)

I grow all FLOURO from start to finish.  3 Weeks @ 24/0, then 13/11 for 8-9 Weeks.


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## papabeach1 (Sep 24, 2008)

Capt. Skinx said:
			
		

> I grow all FLOURO from start to finish. 3 Weeks @ 24/0, then 13/11 for 8-9 Weeks.


 
you could get postive sex within 3 weeks? 

before put them in flowering?

heck how u do that??

:holysheep:


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## papercha[$]er (Sep 26, 2008)

please let us know...


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## born2killspam (Sep 27, 2008)

This is another strain dependant thing..  Hardcore sativa growers will mimick equatorial light as much as possible, vegging at something like 13/11, and flowering at 11/13..  Environment can matter alot as far as pheno expression goes..  Indicas do like the whole 18/6 or higher for vegging, but you can also pull more sativa out of them at times by showing them the equatorial environment..


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## papabeach1 (Sep 27, 2008)

Capt. Skinx said:
			
		

> I grow all FLOURO from start to finish.  3 Weeks @ 24/0, then 13/11 for 8-9 Weeks.



just started other 4 seeds and its on 24, see how it goes for 3 weeks hmm..

just that it need to develop the sexes, it will not develop if I do keep them in 24 hr on?


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## born2killspam (Sep 27, 2008)

Most plants will show preflowers by 5 weeks or so with pretty much any suitable schedule..
Only preflowers will show though..  You won't get any pistil formation on the tops until you reduce the light..


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## papabeach1 (Sep 29, 2008)

some people said 10/14 to get more ratio of females? true or false? 

less lights to get them pre flowering   the last grow we did was 12/12 we got 40 percents of males 20 percents of hermies,  maybe its from the seed strains?


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## Puffin Afatty (Sep 29, 2008)

*I think sex is predetermined before you sprout it :hubba:  I have heard you can influenece it, but I really dont believe it either 

I just veg at 24/0 and then flip to flower at 12/12 and sex always shows within 2 weeks in every strain I have grown :farm:*


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## born2killspam (Sep 29, 2008)

It can be influenced..  Hermaphrodism is proof of that..  Ethylene is an important sex determination hormone..  
Its really the best practise to ignore that fact if breeding though, because any plant that can be induced to show characteristics of the opposite sex will carry a strong hermaphroditic tendancy.. Actually female traits on a seed polinated as a male [thus induced female] is much worse for breeding since this trait signifies an incredibly strong hermaphroditic tendancy [but ontop of that, it would donate male genes.. Essentially masculinized seeds ]..  This would occur from exceptional environmental conditions, whereas female>male typical hermaphrodites occur from negative environmental factors..  Obviously in this scenario virtually any plant can be stressed to the point of herming, so resistance level should be considered in selection..
Apparently the point in the life-cycle that is most important for inducing sex is 2-3 weeks into vegitative growth..  Only female>male changes are ever commonly observed due to environmental factors after that..


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 30, 2008)

papabeach1 said:
			
		

> some people said 10/14 to get more ratio of females? true or false?
> 
> less lights to get them pre flowering   the last grow we did was 12/12 we got 40 percents of males 20 percents of hermies,  maybe its from the seed strains?



False.

If you got 20% hermies, something is wrong--most likely either seeds from hermies or light problems.  I would not screw around with 10/14 or any other weird lighting regime when your plants are in flower.

Anything you do to try and get more females has to start when your plants are in veg and have several sets of true leaves--about 3 weeks.  These things include:  More nitrogen, less potassium; higher humidity;lower temps; more blue light; fewer hours of light (18 instead of 24); NO stress.  Continue for several weeks.


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## papabeach1 (Sep 30, 2008)

thank you everybody,   yeah 18/6 does make sense to start with.. and its better to do so.... after the sexs starts to develop, will need to flip it to 12/12
with HPS right?


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## Timmyjg6 (Sep 30, 2008)

Yes, iv never herd of any one using any thing other than 12/12 for flower and anywhere from 18-6 to 24-0 for veg. I would stay in those lines..


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## godspeedsuckah (Sep 30, 2008)

12/12 don't stray.


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## i_love_amsterdam (Sep 30, 2008)

born2killspam said:
			
		

> This is another strain dependant thing.. Hardcore sativa growers will mimick equatorial light as much as possible, vegging at something like 13/11, and flowering at 11/13.. Environment can matter alot as far as pheno expression goes.. Indicas do like the whole 18/6 or higher for vegging, but you can also pull more sativa out of them at times by showing them the equatorial environment..


 
Vegging at 13/11 doesn't make them just go straight into flower? Seems awful close to 12/12.


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## Hick (Sep 30, 2008)

i_love_amsterdam said:
			
		

> Vegging at 13/11 doesn't make them just go straight into flower? Seems awful close to 12/12.


the "key" words I_love'.. is "equatorial sativas"...
the light hours are a consistant 12/12 on the equator. 
Therefore, plants native to that region are 'climatized' to those confitions.


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## i_love_amsterdam (Sep 30, 2008)

I figured that was probly it but i'd never really heard that before


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## DomsChron (Oct 22, 2008)

*I read a thread on here a few times explaining how plants flower, and they do it like this. When the chlorophyll in the leaves are hit by light in the correct growing spectrum, they produce a chemical florigen. When there is NO light, antiflorigen is produced. So it's important to stay at 12/12 because plants flower when the ratio of florigen to antiflorigen is equal. By the way, remember to keep those 12 hrs DARK because, and I quote Hick, antiflorigen isn't created by a lack of light, it's created by the ABSENCE of light *


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## papabeach1 (Oct 23, 2008)

DomChom....

you are correct... just like all vegetable plants... they bloom in 12/12 

I never see any bloom in 24 hours which absence the dark period of blooms..

I would stick 18/6 for females... I don't care about males they can live with 12/12..  but for mothers to keep... 24 hours is great!! that is where we can absence the bloom time.. and keep them up to 5 to 12 years depends the conditions of plants.. and have many donors as we can cuts..   also  tomatoes seem fussy when I put them on 24 hours.. they grows alot better in 12/12...  strange?.. hmm..


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## DomsChron (Oct 23, 2008)

*I disagree with only 1 thing you said man. Where you say 24/0 is good for a mother to keep or something? You see, the Cannabis plant literally can only receive max 18 of those hrs a day, so any more won't help anyways. Plus, a dark period id beneficial because of root growth. The dark period also lessens chances of those darn HERMIES!*


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## papabeach1 (Oct 23, 2008)

DomsChron said:
			
		

> *I disagree with only 1 thing you said man. Where you say 24/0 is good for a mother to keep or something? You see, the Cannabis plant literally can only receive max 18 of those hrs a day, so any more won't help anyways. Plus, a dark period id beneficial because of root growth. The dark period also lessens chances of those darn HERMIES!*




so 18/6 for MOMS?


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## DomsChron (Oct 23, 2008)

*18/6 for ANY plant, they wont EVER use those extra 6 hours. So convert it into an UNDISTURBED dark period.*


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## Hick (Oct 23, 2008)

DomsChron said:
			
		

> *18/6 for ANY plant, they wont EVER use those extra 6 hours. So convert it into an UNDISTURBED dark period.*


..At "best".. a subject of contraversy.
  "I" personally am of the school that believes plants will use as many hours of light as they are permitted.
  They DO NOT require/need a dark period..

I keep my donors/mothers on strict 24/0. I keep them for years on end in that manner, with *"0"* ill effects


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## massproducer (Oct 23, 2008)

Yeah, i hear this coming up now a lot but I have yet to see ANY concreate information stating that a plant can only use 18 hours... I on the contrary find many scientific pointing to the fact that plants do not require a dark period during vegetative growth, as everything that can be done during the dark can be done during the light, but it is also a fact that during the dark period a plant can not generate any additional energy because it obtains energy through photosynthesis, which requires light.

You have to understand the difference between light-dependant reactions and light independent reactions in plants.


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## born2killspam (Oct 24, 2008)

Everything credible sounding, that I have read, leads me to believe that the max light hours are tied with intensity..
Not that photons won't be absorbed after that many hours, but that photon absorbtion beyond the red-line can be destructive to the chloroplasts..
See photosynthesis doesn't just turn on like a light, it builds up like a fire..  Throughout the day, more and more electrons get bumped up, and stuck in triplet state waiting for water/CO2 to process..  In intense light, there comes a point during the day where there are more excited electrons than there is water/CO2..  When this happens, those electrons end up participating in undesrible reactions..  Doing things like using O2 to create superoxides, and other toxic crap that destroy chlorophyls/chloroplasts..
This has nothing to do with hormone balance, its more analogous to running an engine too hard for too long.. Where this red-line sits depends on the plant, temperature, humidity and CO2 levels..  I have a pretty hardcore indepth biochem pdf file outlining PS1, PS2, and the Calvin Benson Cycle.. If anybody is interested, let me know how to send it, its ~1.2MB (30pgs)..


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## papabeach1 (Oct 24, 2008)

born2killspam said:
			
		

> Everything credible sounding, that I have read, leads me to believe that the max light hours are tied with intensity..
> Not that photons won't be absorbed after that many hours, but that photon absorbtion beyond the red-line can be destructive to the chloroplasts..
> See photosynthesis doesn't just turn on like a light, it builds up like a fire..  Throughout the day, more and more electrons get bumped up, and stuck in triplet state waiting for water/CO2 to process..  In intense light, there comes a point during the day where there are more excited electrons than there is water/CO2..  When this happens, those electrons end up participating in undesrible reactions..  Doing things like using O2 to create superoxides, and other toxic crap that destroy chlorophyll/chloroplasts..
> This has nothing to do with hormone balance, its more analogous to running an engine too hard for too long.. Where this red-line sits depends on the plant, temperature, humidity and CO2 levels..  I have a pretty hardcore indepth biochem pdf file outlining PS1, PS2, and the Calvin Benson Cycle.. If anybody is interested, let me know how to send it, its ~1.2MB (30pgs)..



I do see your point about "burning leaves" from HPS/HID lights if runs just  24/0 (IMO that what you talking about) but floursec. lights/cfls does not hurt the plants as HPS/HID does if you runs it on 24/0... eventhough that kind of lights do gives little co2 toward to the leaves/stems (green parts of plants) which the chloroph would be happy IMO... also about these superoxides would be storage in the plant until the donors is made.. along with nutes.. that is where we do not need to give nutes to donors for 2 weeks...so they can grow roots.. by the time roots grows.... it is time to give them new nutes and flip it to 12/12..  so.. If these superoxides/co2/oxgen wasn't provided in the mom plants... then I do not think clones would be success?   maybe I'm wrong with these.. I'm just trying my best think myself as marijauna plant... and feel what they are feeling


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## papabeach1 (Oct 24, 2008)

thank you very much hick and massprod to point that out that I do not need dark period.. because If I did has them in 6 hours of dark period.. they would grow some preflowers... and maybe I can't get more donors out of mom plant if that occurs....  as hick said.. he grew mom plant and kept the plants 24/0  and have no problem.... I would go where plants has walked the talk..
marijuana mom plants can survives with no dark period of time until you decide to stop doing the clones. you can just put the mom in 12/12 just to end the donors..and get what you have remain from the plant itself.. IMO   the energy comes from light rays/par  and produce the sugar  so that means we got everlasting of THC as they are producing!!  just my IMO  anyone please correct me  thanks..


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## born2killspam (Oct 24, 2008)

> I do see your point about "burning leaves" from HPS/HID lights if runs just 24/0 (IMO that what you talking about) but floursec. lights/cfls does not hurt the plants as HPS/HID does if you runs it on 24/0... eventhough that kind of lights do gives little co2 toward to the leaves/stems (green parts of plants) which the chloroph would be happy IMO... also about these superoxides would be storage in the plant until the donors is made.. along with nutes.. that is where we do not need to give nutes to donors for 2 weeks...so they can grow roots.. by the time roots grows.... it is time to give them new nutes and flip it to 12/12.. so.. If these superoxides/co2/oxgen wasn't provided in the mom plants... then I do not think clones would be success? maybe I'm wrong with these.. I'm just trying my best think myself as marijauna plant... and feel what they are feeling


Umm.... I don't understand you, and I'm pretty positive you didn't understand me..


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## papabeach1 (Oct 24, 2008)

born2killspam said:
			
		

> Umm.... I don't understand you, and I'm pretty positive you didn't understand me..



okay  give me the link or send me pm to get the link of that pdf files on grow cycles... I will take look at it...

just that I do trust nature and let it grow outside... the only thing I grow indoor is to have a lot of donors and "sog" these donors in DWC  if I do grow it lot better and so far  we have handled lot better than deal with 9 to 12 months of grow cycle..  its more advanced to me.. and I like it...

also  plant did walked the talk... plants did like 24/0  for years... 5 years.. 12 years.. not bad...  no wrinkle leaves..  so far I grew lot from CFLS  I see no burns...no retard leaves.. just  nute burns  it happen sometime  that's all..
help me out to understand you please...:hubba:  I ll be back in few after clean install of black xp pro sp3 vista style


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## born2killspam (Oct 25, 2008)

Anybody who wants it post/pm an email that can receive a 1.2MB pdf file..  
I don't really want to make my webserver public on here..
Fair warning though, it is not an easy read, and the chemistry is VERY indepth..


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## massproducer (Oct 25, 2008)

I think the bolded line lends some of the most information... IME, this is more of a senerio then a rule... I would agree that the more intense the light source the higher the requirements are for water, nutrients and CO2, this could potentially lead to a depletion of all available CO2, water or nutrients in an uncontrolled or unfavorable environment, but an indoor grow room is far from an uncontrolled environment, it is the exact opposite, it is a highly controlled environment.

In a controlled environment understanding all of the variables, one can easily take advantage of these very same principles.  By simply exchanging the air within the growroom with air from outside, and using oscillating fans to circulate this air among the plants you can prevent CO2 levels from ever coming close to becoming depleted around the plants.  Watering and the plants access to water, as we all know, is very easy to control and is one of the first things that any new grower will master, along with when and how much nutrients to feed.  These basic things will keep your plants growing as long as you provide light.  The more light you give, the faster the plants will grow, but the higher the requirements for water, nutrients and CO2.  Temperature also plays a major role in the growth rate as it increases the growth rate but also increases the requirements for light, water, nutrients and CO2

Also once a grower understands and masters the basics, then they are able to move on to things like supplementing CO2, which again increase the growth rate but also increase the requirements for everything else.  

The point in all of this being, that it has nothing to do with the amount of time a light is on, or going past 18 hours of light, it has to do with all of the other requirements being met in harmony.  In fact your CO2 levels can be depleted 10 minutes after turning you lights on if you do not have an adequate supply of CO2 in the form of either fresh air or CO2 supplication, and if you don't give your plants water then they obviously wont have access for long, but if they do have an adequate supply of both then there is not any mysterious force that stops light from being efficient after 18 continous hours, or anything like that...  my plants that are on 24/0 grow the exact same at 12 am as the do at 12 pm






			
				born2killspam said:
			
		

> Everything credible sounding, that I have read, leads me to believe that the max light hours are tied with intensity..
> Not that photons won't be absorbed after that many hours, but that photon absorbtion beyond the red-line can be destructive to the chloroplasts..
> See photosynthesis doesn't just turn on like a light, it builds up like a fire.. Throughout the day, more and more electrons get bumped up, and stuck in triplet state waiting for water/CO2 to process.. *In intense light, there comes a point during the day where there are more excited electrons than there is water/CO2*.. When this happens, those electrons end up participating in undesrible reactions.. Doing things like using O2 to create superoxides, and other toxic crap that destroy chlorophyls/chloroplasts..
> This has nothing to do with hormone balance, its more analogous to running an engine too hard for too long.. Where this red-line sits depends on the plant, temperature, humidity and CO2 levels.. I have a pretty hardcore indepth biochem pdf file outlining PS1, PS2, and the Calvin Benson Cycle.. If anybody is interested, let me know how to send it, its ~1.2MB (30pgs)..


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## born2killspam (Oct 25, 2008)

I agree with all of that, but apparently there is a red-line where favorable conditions just can't compete with the number of excited electrons..  As though the plant itself ends up as the weakest link..  It will continue to absorb photons, but it can't metabolize enough CO2 etc to keep up even if concentrations are ideal..


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## massproducer (Oct 25, 2008)

that is the part that I have never heard and as such can not say that i agree with


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## born2killspam (Oct 25, 2008)

pm me an email address and I'll send the document that explains the concept best..


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## DomsChron (Oct 25, 2008)

*Thanks for clearing this up, massproducer. I was under that impression because when I was introdused to this "theory" I was told it as fact.

Born2 kill, I think what he means is everything you are saying is true, but it dosen't have to do with the subject me and mass were talking about. We were talking about the max usage of light per day in a cannabis plant.

The only way to tell is to set up two exact environments, and do everything EXACTLY the same. One would run 18/6 and the other would stay on 24/0. The only way we would prove this is to grow about 20 plants in each room. One would have to show CONCLUSIVE evidence that either the 18/6 vegged plants were growing slower, or the 24/0 ones were growing faster. However you might also find out visa versa, that 18/6 grew a little better.

The only other result would be that they didn't change. And if I hadn't seen a change by the end of the experiment, then I would choose 18/6. Only reason being because there is proven studies to show a dark period is beneficial. Not at all necessary, just a little beneficial.*


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## born2killspam (Oct 25, 2008)

Yea, admittedly what I'm refering to isn't hormone oriented, and doesn't really cue the plant to do anything..


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