# Making clones like a newbie



## 000StankDank000 (Dec 27, 2014)

So trying to get some genetics off a buddy and he can't have any luck with roots on the clones. 

Cut clone dip in gel and place it into a PH cube. Then into the dome and heat mat. 80F and high humidity. Misting regularly . They are not wilting just not rooting. Been 10 days so far. 

The gel was a free sample at a cup. 

What else can be done?  Thinking gel is suspect 
What do you old heads think
StankDank


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 27, 2014)

If the temps are too high or too low, that can slow it down or stop it entirely. You want to be just under 80f (78-79f). Also the gel could be bad.
The most likely thing if they haven't wilted after a week, is that the strain is one that is difficult to clone. Is it Larry OG Kush? She is a bear to clone sometimes. If they haven't wilted then they are still alive and possibly getting ready to root. Don't disturb them and watch for some new growth at the tops as that will tell you that they have rooted. I try to keep my water at about 78f for moistening the cubes and at 6.0-6.5, but I have heard and read that they seem to root better when the pH is closer to 6.0, although I don't know that to be an absolute.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 28, 2014)

It often takes me 2 weeks to get roots.  What is a PH cube?


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 28, 2014)

A Rockwell cube that has it's PH adjusted? 
New clone hormone was bought today in a powder form.
The strain is DNA-Tangie


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 28, 2014)

I have never heard of these...did you buy them commercially?


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 28, 2014)

Rockwell has a high PH I have been told. I was always told to soak the cubes in PH adjusted water to make sure the cubes have the right PH . 
I have read it all over the net and guys at hydro shop said it also.

I can't be the only one.


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## vostok (Dec 28, 2014)

*Make your own DIY clone Bubbler ..
its fun too and cheap ...lol
gurgle for more*​


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## Lesso (Dec 28, 2014)

What is the set up of your lighting for the clones?


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## lyfespan (Dec 28, 2014)

Have you tried, deep dipping in your hormone gel?, are you cutting, scrapping and splitting the cutting under water? Is there any hormone gel showing after you have it in your medium? Humidity and temp control? And last and most important, is the mother mature enough, stress free, and did clipping come from the lower node branches?


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 28, 2014)

The lights are T8 . The temp and humidity is controlled . I'm doing all of cutting scrapping but not under water? I have never heard about this before.  I'm not sure about the mother that could be an issue I know he said water was an issue for him.


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## pcduck (Dec 29, 2014)

Powdered kelp.
Added to water.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 29, 2014)

cloning can be quite challenging if the strain is one that doesn't clone too easy. I have seen some that I swear you could throw in the floor and they would root, but some of them will not root unless every little detail is to their liking. It is important to do some of the final cutting and scraping of the stem under water so that you don't get an air embolism in the end of the stem as that is certain death for that cutting. Many of us are bad about not doing the final stuff under water and it sometimes bites us with failures.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 29, 2014)

000StankDank000 said:


> Rockwell has a high PH I have been told. I was always told to soak the cubes in PH adjusted water to make sure the cubes have the right PH .
> I have read it all over the net and guys at hydro shop said it also.
> 
> I can't be the only one.



Well, yes, we all know that, but I have just never seen anyone call rockwool cubes that they have treated "PH Cubes".

You might try another medium.  I find that rockwool cubes hold a lot of moisture....sometimes too much.  I am currently having better luck just sticking them into soil.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 29, 2014)

:yeahthat: I hate rockwool for that very reason. very challenging to maintain the proper moisture level without drowning them. DGF uses strait, plain coco coir and has had really good success with several different strains. But if you will be growing in a hydro system that uses the LECA then you will need to use something more like Rapid Rooter cubes as these hold just the right amount of moisture. You also need to keep the air and water between 77f and 80f until they get rooted.


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## Lesso (Dec 29, 2014)

Make sure your t8s arent too close to your plants. A 12/12 schedule works best. I found that this has been the difference in my cloning. I used to set the light on top of them and run it 24 hours. Had about 50 percent success before i changed that up. Last cloning i did had 100%. I believe the cutting throws roots much faster this way as well.


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 29, 2014)

I have seen dome lids that fit the T5 and T8 bulbs on top of the dome. Too close?


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## kaotik (Dec 29, 2014)

best advise i got is leave em alone.
i'm admittedly not a great grower, but have great success with clones (i only take 1 clone, as they always root for me)  ..but i've always used peat pucks. no rockwool experience.

all i do is cut on an angle
trim all fan leaves about halfway back.
pull the lowest node down and off (to reveal more rooting area)
dip in water then in stimroot
plant in peat puck (that i soak, then leave out for a few hours to not be sopping wet  ) 
put under dome, and leave alone.

..no heat mat, and definitely no misting  (worse routine you can do with cloning IMO)
i hate misting.. in my layman thinking from watching it; it makes em lazy.. "why shoot roots? i've got what i need like this"


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## lyfespan (Dec 29, 2014)

Hushpuppy said:


> cloning can be quite challenging if the strain is one that doesn't clone too easy. I have seen some that I swear you could throw in the floor and they would root, but some of them will not root unless every little detail is to their liking. It is important to do some of the final cutting and scraping of the stem under water so that you don't get an air embolism in the end of the stem as that is certain death for that cutting. Many of us are bad about not doing the final stuff under water and it sometimes bites us with failures.



As we know some girls just need more pampering than others, knowing your girls will help you treat them accordingly. I bet larry you have to do every single trick, and light a lil prayer candle.


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## orangesunshine (Dec 29, 2014)

well looks like im gonna need the popes blessing for the purple kush clones i took last night from unsexed plants---they're in un ph'd rockwool---not cut under water and constantly being sprayed in the diy cloner---all sitting on a heating mat---all the cuts are clipped and bent over because they were cut from lower bent branches---upside if there is one---they were dipped in clonex gel before inserting into the rockwool---god bless this mess---little green mojo from some friends wouldn't hurt either---please include my cuts in your prayers---


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 29, 2014)

View attachment ImageUploadedByTapatalk1419872543.511202.jpg

Should I cut the tips? 
Keep the top on or off?


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## orangesunshine (Dec 29, 2014)

i only cut tips if the leaves are heavy enough to bend them over or spacing is an issue


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## orangesunshine (Dec 29, 2014)

throw some green mojo my way will ya folks :icon_smile:View attachment IMG_0423.JPG


View attachment IMG_0424.JPG


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 29, 2014)

Orange dude your girls are looking healthy green mojo for you. Thanks for sharing


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## Wetdog (Dec 29, 2014)

000StankDank000 said:


> View attachment 221026
> 
> Should I cut the tips?
> Keep the top on or off?



No, do not cut the tips.

Cock the top a bit and cut down on the misting to start to harden them off. I mean, mist, then set the top on a bit crooked to let air in. Then, the next day, take it off for a few hours and put it back on crooked.

I _*very*_ seldom use a top or mist after the first 3 days, but if they aren't wilted there isn't much to worry about. Where I live now, the humidity can go from less than 10% to 100% in 24 hrs. Did just that a few days ago and it makes things *interesting*.

Be that as it may, the clone I've been running for over 5 years now seldom roots in less than 3 weeks and sometimes over a month. Used to worry me, but now just take it in stride and go by the 'not wilted' yardstick.

*Rose* summed it up perfectly a few years back, but I can't remember the exact quote. Something like, 'First it looks good, then not so good, then it looks terrible, then it roots'. Described the whole process to a T.

Wet


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 30, 2014)

Some people have really good results with RW, I'm not one of those people 

Hey Multi, how long does it take you to root them in the bag like that? do you put them in the fridge where its cold?


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## Wetdog (Dec 30, 2014)

multifarious said:


> You may want to change your approach to taking and maintaining cuttings if they look "terrible" before they root



I was paraphrasing a quote from Rose. But, yeah, they can look a bit gnarly right at root pop. I think they are drawing nutrients out of the leaves to form roots. The uppermost leaves and growth still looks good though.

Same approach has worked well since 1992.

Wet


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## Wetdog (Dec 30, 2014)

I :heart: RW also.

All I had for cloning was 2 pages+1 column of text and 2 pics from the 1988/89 SSSC catalog for clone instruction. 3"x3"x3" was the smallest cubes back then, 4 cuts/cube. That and Clonex Gel and solution. There was no internet, at least for me at the time. But, the instructions were very concise, even to sprinkling perlite so the cube wouldn't suck itself tight to the surface of the tray. There were no grooves cut in the RW then either. Trial and error, but if you followed the directions it was pretty straightforward. Pretty much the same as today, but easier now with the nice starter cubes.

Done peat pucks and straight into used mix, also with good results, but I always keep a supply of the 1 1/2x1 1/2 starter cubes and Clonex handy. It will always be my fall back, must have, cloning method.

Wet


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## Wetdog (Dec 30, 2014)

Double tap.

Wet


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## Rosebud (Dec 30, 2014)

Wetdog said:


> No, do not cut the tips.
> 
> Cock the top a bit and cut down on the misting to start to harden them off. I mean, mist, then set the top on a bit crooked to let air in. Then, the next day, take it off for a few hours and put it back on crooked.
> 
> ...




Wetdog, i still stick to that philosophy lol... Mine do look like heck right before they give up and root.  I take three cuts so I have 2 for sures.  Cloning miniature roses you take two cuttings for every one you want... MJ is a little easier, I guess. I am not good at it like the above folks... Very impressed Multi, and Orange. I hope your new ones make it well Orange.


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## Wetdog (Dec 31, 2014)

Rosebud said:


> Wetdog, i still stick to that philosophy lol... Mine do look like heck right before they give up and root.  I take three cuts so I have 2 for sures.  Cloning miniature roses you take two cuttings for every one you want... MJ is a little easier, I guess. I am not good at it like the above folks... Very impressed Multi, and Orange. I hope your new ones make it well Orange.



If you can clone miniature roses, MJ is nothing, child's play. I'm impressed!:farm:

Wet


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## Rosebud (Dec 31, 2014)

multifarious said:


> The first cuttings I ever took were with my Grandfather in his fruit garden with his pocket knife.
> 
> I'd guess I've used almost all popular cutting mediums and methods, Rockwool and baggie cuts is my preferred go to method and I always like to have rw cubes in stock. Conversely I'm currently rooting cuts in pots of coco coir.




This is off topic a little but Multi, have you read The Orchardist?  You and your grandfather in the orchard reminded me of one of my most favorite books.


Wetdog, don't be too impressed, i was big into roses for years and mini's are easy to root if you ever want to know how.

I have my very first RW, so i was happy to see the weighed product. Thanks Multi.


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 31, 2014)

Day 4 no roots. Hoping by 7 days we will have some.


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## Lesso (Jan 1, 2015)

Give it 10 to 14. Any wilting?


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## zem (Jan 1, 2015)

000StankDank000 said:


> Day 4 no roots. Hoping by 7 days we will have some.



you must be more patient when it comes to cloning. i keep mine 20 days before i even disturb them to check on the roots. by 7 days i guess it is still too early


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 1, 2015)

Hushpuppy said:


> Some people have really good results with RW, I'm not one of those people



Nor am I.  And stank may be one of those people too.  If a medium or method is not working for you , change it up.  That is one of the reasons that there ARE different mediums and methods of growing.  Not every one of them is for everybody.

I have saved myself embarrassment by not showing my clones that I have tried RW and the multi method with, but they are not pretty and never root.  Not sure if longevity is a sign of a quality product...by that thinking MG would be great since it has been around for about 100 years longer than Grodans....I think I read 1868.


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## orangesunshine (Jan 1, 2015)

my 2 cents

1st off thanks thg---you pointed out a flaw in pre sprouting seeds which explained the likeliness of why my germ rate went from 100% cracked beans to 20% sprouting---i think they were contaminated when i poured them from the glass of water onto a filthy towel :doh:

i also believe and have experienced---the better the herb---the more difficult it is to get roots from clones---seems to take much longer and rooting % are not 100%


farewell fellow enthusiasts :ccc:


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## Wetdog (Jan 1, 2015)

zem said:


> you must be more patient when it comes to cloning. i keep mine 20 days before i even disturb them to check on the roots. by 7 days i guess it is still too early



:yeahthat::goodposting:

For the clone I'm running checking before 3 weeks just disturbs and irritates them. :watchplant:

*SD*
Don't get into the mind set that clones popping roots and planted seeds sprouting are in the same time frame, #of days wise. 7 days is a bit unrealistic. Not impossible I guess, but, I've never seen it.

No problem. Do it a few times and you'll get a feel for how long. Especially if you run the same strain for a bit.

Wet


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 1, 2015)

View attachment ImageUploadedByTapatalk1420170224.358411.jpg

This is how they look today. Rockwell has a lot of water in it. Took dome off


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## Droopy Dog (Jan 2, 2015)

Looking good to me. 

DD


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## zem (Jan 4, 2015)

they should root, I would spread them apart a bit more


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 4, 2015)

Still not a single sign of root. 7 days


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## zem (Jan 4, 2015)

how are you checking on them? you are not pulling every one of them out of the cube are you? day 7 is still to early. what are the temps? keep it close to 80 for best results, good luck


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## Dman1234 (Jan 4, 2015)

No roots at 7 days is fine some take 7-9 days some take 14 days and even longer in some cases.


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 4, 2015)

No I do not pull out of rockwhool I just look at the bottom. The temps are like 78F it has a heating mat under it on low . 

The clones are from a healthy DNA fem plant


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## zem (Jan 4, 2015)

I would bet that you will have more than 50% successfully rooted clones. in such conditions, i normally have them all rooting, but not in 7 days


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 4, 2015)

Going south
View attachment ImageUploadedByTapatalk1420419551.272393.jpg


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## Rosebud (Jan 4, 2015)

Ok, stank, no swearing on this forum.... Second of all, that is how clones look, like crap, at least mine always do...then they slowly pull out of it.  Yours actually look better then mine. Remember if your just starting out and you want 15 plants, take 30 cuttings and be prepared to toss the extras...That is hard to do.

Breathe my dear, it will be fine.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 7, 2015)

Stank, they aint going south yet. When they are laid over and the leaves are all shriveled and dried, then they are going south.... It will take (at the very best) 5 days for roots to even sprout ffrom the stem. Then it will take another (at best) 3 more days for the roots to break through to the outside of the cubes. So if the conditions are perfect, and the genetics are perfect (for rooting time), AND IF the cosmos smiles on you, you could see roots in 8 days. If your luck is anywhere near mine, *don't even look *for roots for 15days.


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## samarta (Jan 7, 2015)

Hang in there, I did this a long time ago and never had anything in ten days.  I also kept them very wet.  If you did not pre-soak the rockwool all you can do is re-wet when you usually do with lower ph water and hope that will compensate enough to survive.


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 7, 2015)

All 20 are in soil now. Thanks for the support guys


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## SNWbunie27 (Jan 8, 2015)

How does one not so noob second grow get the clones to pop root? No bubbler yet but need cheap easy way. Would a cut up sponge work? To hold the cutting in the rooting gel tainted water? Kinda like a second set up with a net pot but a sponge instead


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 8, 2015)

The simplest/cheapest way I have seen is a friend of mine used to use little plastic cups of water, with temps around 76-80, set in a warm place so that the water temp holds. the cuttings were placed 1-2 to a cup (very small drinking cups like kiddy cups) and set under a few "warm" color CFL bulbs and left for 48hrs. Then after 48hrs the water was changed out with ffresh water at same temp. He continued to change the water every 48hrs until the cuttings either rooted well enough to go to soil or died. He used no rooting gel or nutrients and still got about 50% success, within a couple weeks. 

I would say if you get some rooting gel/solution/powder and put just a bit in the water, the success rate would go up considerably.


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## zem (Jan 8, 2015)

if you can find around your house some rockwool or oasis cubes that are used for flowers, i have always rooted in those, or you can buy some, or you can always go to the nearest garden and pick up a little soil, try to make it airy and light, flush it with lots of water and there you go. you definitely need some light source a cfl does great because it also helps raise the temps. you can use a cardboard box and cover it with a blanket and/or nylon, and try to keep the temps close to 80. it cannot get  cheaper than that


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## samarta (Jan 11, 2015)

No dot to dot or paint by number here. Allot of free hand is required and no substitute for experience and learning from mistakes.


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## SNWbunie27 (Jan 12, 2015)

OK guys thanx much for the advice will be doing a try for sure


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