# signs of root lock



## isthatjohnstamos (Feb 26, 2008)

so i just finished my first grow.  it was very successful not sure how much i yielded probably about an ounce in total (i just picked buds as i needed to smoke), but i got very leafy and rather small buds.  now i made a clone that has about a week to go off this plant and it is already about the same hieght as the original.  would my low yield and slow growth over the last month be cause by root lock? if so what are the signs that the plant needs a bigger container?


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## headband (Feb 26, 2008)

root lockout isnt only from having a small container, i can be from the nutes you use, the soil. There could be lots of things. How about some more info on your grow, like medium, water and nute sched.


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## berserker (Feb 26, 2008)

I think the two terms you are thinking of are"root bound" and "Nutirent lockout" They are two different things all together.Keep it GREEN


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## Mutt (Feb 26, 2008)

isthatjohnstamos said:
			
		

> so i just finished my first grow. it was very successful not sure how much i yielded probably about an ounce in total (i just picked buds as i needed to smoke), but i got very leafy and rather small buds. now i made a clone that has about a week to go off this plant and it is already about the same hieght as the original. would my low yield and slow growth over the last month be cause by root lock? if so what are the signs that the plant needs a bigger container?


 
By "picking" buds as you go you reduced yeild...plant was too busy trying to repair the damage from you picking away at it instead of fattening up the buds.
Rootbound...eh...HA! sorry rootbound is a state of mind way i look at it...but..signs would be stretching, lower leaves falling off if nutirents are not readily available (really applies to bonzai not just rootbound) and constant watering needed. Stunted growth as well.


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 26, 2008)

Mutt said:
			
		

> Rootbound...eh...HA! sorry rootbound is a state of mind way i look at it...quote]
> 
> Excellent point.
> 
> ...


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## berserker (Feb 26, 2008)

> What exactly is rootbound? Does a root bound plant stop taking in nutrients? no.


 When a plant grows for too long in its container, it generally becomes root bound. With no room for additional growth, roots become tangled, matted, and grow in circles. 
Root-bound plants without having their roots untangled or put into bigger containers often fail to overcome their choked condition. This results in stunting the plants growth and potential loss of the plant.Hope this helps.Keep it GREEN


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 26, 2008)

berserker said:
			
		

> When a plant grows for too long in its container, it generally becomes root bound. With no room for additional growth, roots become tangled, matted, and grow in circles.
> Root-bound plants without having their roots untangled or put into bigger containers often fail to overcome their choked condition. This results in stunting the plants growth and potential loss of the plant.Hope this helps.Keep it GREEN


 
Really?

wow, thanks for the information buddy... 





although I can't just leave it at that without informing you that you are completely wrong.

In the plant world (that's the whole plant world) the root system is so little studied, particularly in higher plants, the reason for this is that the actual plants themselves are not fully understood... and old theories are collapsing fairly frequently.

The twisting and dying just simply doesn't happen... where did you read that?

lol.

hope this helps.


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## jjsunderground (Feb 26, 2008)

you can counter root lock by trimming the root ball. its a bonsai tech. this way you can keep them in small containers forever. ive never tried it so i have no idea if it works.​


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 26, 2008)

With the amount of time indoor growers actually veg their plants for most are wasting a lot of extra medium and also more feed. Not only that but with the much smaller pots you can fit in more plants... making more yield

You can quite happily veg a seed plant in a 500ml container (coco coir, i need to be specific as I have tested this method with no other medium) for 2 months... even longer and still carry it through to harvest with a similar yield had you put the plant in a container 10 times the size... this i can say for a fact.

Vegetation time has more to do with eventual yield and is far more important than the size of the container.


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Feb 26, 2008)

hey jjs...

let's find out if my plant will grow in a 2oz shotglass with no manipulations at all. it is the same age as my next set of clones for when my third crop is finished flowering.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=22959


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## Hick (Feb 26, 2008)

NewSkoolHarvester said:
			
		

> Really?
> 
> wow, thanks for the information buddy...
> 
> ...



Eeeeeeasy bigguy.. no need to be confrontational here. ..


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 26, 2008)

The reason I can talk so confidently about this subject is because I have actually done it, am still doing it.

Since growing in the 500ml pots I know I can veg' the plants for as long as i please, and carry them through to harvest. I have two mother plants recently gone into 1litre containers and I intend to keep them for 4 months or so before flowering them... no problem, no root bound. In fact root bound is not even a consideration.

The seed plants i vegged for 5 weeks and have been topped, each has 3 main colas... they are still in their 500ml pots 2 weeks into flower and nigh on 3ft tall.

Rootbound is not in my vocabulary.


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## headband (Feb 26, 2008)

NewSkoolHarvester said:
			
		

> The twisting and dying just simply doesn't happen... where did you read that?


 im pretty sure he said the roots grow in circles, i dont know about it killing the plant, but dude stop:hairpull:


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## berserker (Feb 26, 2008)

When you say that I am completely wrong.Thats one thing,and I am ok with that.
But,to try and give out bad info on here thats another thing.You stated that you grow 3 to 3.5 foot plants in pots that are 500ml.Ok,fine.Some people want smaller plants,thats why they stay in smaller pots.But to try and say that you can get the same yield in a 500ml pot compared to a pot 10 time the size.We all know that is ridiculous.You could not out yield 4 gallon pots,let alone ones bigger then that.Your plants will not grow no bigger because your roots wont let it,because of the size of the container you have them in.
 Here is some good reading for you from the Greenman's library.


*Containers *   After you have prepared your soil,  you will have to come up with some kind of container to plant in.  The container should be sterilized as well,  especially if they have been used previously for growing other plants.   The size of the container has a great
deal to do with the rate of growth and overall size of the plant.  You  should  plan on transplanting your plant not more  than  one  time,  since  the process of transplanting can be a shock to  the  plant  and  it will have to undergo a recovery  period  in  which  growth  is slowed or even stopped for a short while.   The  first container you use should be no larger than six inches in diameter and  can  be made of clay  or  plastic.   To  transplant,  simply prepare the larger pot by filling it with soil and scooping out a little  hole about the size of the smaller pot that the plant  is in.   Turn the plant upside down, pot and all, and tap the rim of the pot sharply on a counter or the edge of the sink.   The  soil and  root ball should come out of the pot cleanly with  the  soil  retaining  the shape of the pot and with no disturbances  to  the root  ball.   Another  method that can bypass  the  transplanting
problem is using a Jiffy-Pot.   Jiffy pots are made of compressed peat  moss  and can be planted right into moist soil  where  they decompose and allow the passage of the root system through  their walls.   The  second container should have a volume of  at  least three gallons.  Marijuana doesn't like to have its roots bound or cramped for space,  so always be sure that the container you  use will  be deep enough for your plant's root system.   It  is  very  difficult  to  transplant a five-foot  marijuana  tree,  so  plan  ahead.   It is going to get bigger.   The small plants should  be  ready  to  transplant  into their permanent homes  in  about  two  weeks.  Keep a close watch on them after the first week or so and  avoid root binding at all costs since the plants never seem to do  as  well  once they have been stunted by the  cramping  of  their  roots.
Now,there are some facts for you.I can keep posting that all day.But we all know thats not necessary at this time.It is preached on here time and time again.If you want  a bigger yield,bigger plants,bigger buds,you need bigger pots.I wonder why that is? Just some food for thought.Keep it GREEN 



One last thing.I understand,if you think your right,and being arrogant about it,is one thing,but on here,we try to be a nice and polite and pleasant to one another.


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 27, 2008)

I don't need to read greenman's information... he says a lot of things that are wrong, not just wrong but completely wrong. Why would I listen to that idiot when I have done and am still doing everything i've said? So I should stop listening to the truth and start taking in what greenman has to say? lol... now that is a joke.

If you veg a plant for up to 2 months in a 500ml container you will get a similar yield to had you vegged in a 5litre container. i've done it and am still doing it.

The difference between you, me and greenman is that I actually do the tests and don't rely on second hand information.


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## jjsunderground (Feb 27, 2008)

:48: haaav a jamaicahn pahncake mahn!​


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Feb 27, 2008)

jjsunderground said:
			
		

> :48: haaav a jamaicahn pahncake mahn!​


 
:rofl:


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 27, 2008)

The key is in understanding root behaviour... roots spread out instinctively, they do this to ensure that the plant can obtain an adequate supply of nutrients as in the wild there is usually only a set amount of nutrients per square foot of soil. Also other wildlife will be fighting for the same nutrients, so roots would rather move around an object (like another root) to find more nutes rather than fighting for a particular space. If cannabis has what could be defined a brain then this brain is in the root system, as this is where all the processes and calculations occur. To read more on that, take a look at this http://www.drskunk.com/CANNABRAINds.htm It also makes sense that the sexual regions are in the open air while the brain is nice and protected below ground.

So with a thinking, calculating brain... and cannabis sheer will to survive, not just survive but THRIVE in even the most absurd conditions (pure UV environment) the plant recognises the limits to it's root space and stops. That's right it stops or at least slows right down, yet the plant will continue growing. It does so because it is receiving an adequate supply of nutrients and is supported at the stem. A large plant does not need an equally large root system, it just needs a root system.


So if you provide an adequate supply of nutrients to the root system while keeping the plant tied up for support (this is a must, if you don't tie them they will fall over) you can grow those plants to really big sizes with a tiny root system. Without suffering ANY problems.

Trouble is with cannabis, it is not an ordinary plant.

Also towards the end of flower, the last 2-3 weeks depending on strain a large part of the root system dies away.

My full experiment with root pic's and final yield pic's are all logged.


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## Dubbaman (Feb 27, 2008)

Sounds to me like someone is talking out the side of their neck here. OK first off root binding is real, and of you want to :argue: you can till your blue in the face. I know it is real anyone who has tried to grow 2 plants in one potter can say it i have not only did the plants suffer in their nutrient uptake, they suffered in total yield. Also any one can say it only takes a small root ball to grow a small plant (duh) thats the key word there small, Ive let my plants get to 3-4 ft in 2 gal potter no prob and the root binding came into effect keeping the plant small. Look theres that key word again. What seems to be the question here regardless of who's book you choose to read, seems to be, that if you want a big plant and a small root system can it happen and the answer is a big fat no it cant, any and all fauna will to its best to grow as big as it can above and below ground, and equally at the same time 3 foot above is 3 foot below. Think of it like this, what would become of your plant if you grew it through its vegetative state in a 5 gal potter and then decided to transplant it into a 3 gal container. it will be shocked in a smaller home and not recover in time most likely causing the plant to go Hermy on you, poor nutrient uptake, stunted growth, and poor flowering performance.


Back to the thread and the question that is asked about how to tell if your plant is root bound. When you notice that it seems your plant has leveled off in growth or stopped all together your plants roots are running out of room for further advancement in plant height. Sure it will still grow and gain a bit more height and flower and flourish as well as it can but it will do it more slowly than normal, with new roots comes new growth even during flower, until the last weeks when the plant is ready for life to start ending.


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 27, 2008)

Dubbaman said:
			
		

> I know it is real anyone who has tried to grow 2 plants in one potter can say it i have not only did the plants suffer in their nutrient uptake, they suffered in total yield. Also any one can say it only takes a small root ball to grow a small plant (duh) thats the key word there small, Ive let my plants get to 3-4 ft in 2 gal potter no prob and the root binding came into effect keeping the plant small. Look theres that key word again. What seems to be the question here regardless of who's book you choose to read, seems to be, that if you want a big plant and a small root system can it happen and the answer is a big fat no it cant, any and all fauna will to its best to grow as big as it can above and below ground, and equally at the same time 3 foot above is 3 foot below. Think of it like this, what would become of your plant if you grew it through its vegetative state in a 5 gal potter and then decided to transplant it into a 3 gal container. it will be shocked in a smaller home and not recover in time most likely causing the plant to go Hermy on you, poor nutrient uptake, stunted growth, and poor flowering performance.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 27, 2008)

Dubbaman said:
			
		

> What seems to be the question here regardless of who's book you choose to read, seems to be, that if you want a big plant and a small root system can it happen and the answer is a big fat no it cant, any and all fauna will to its best to grow as big as it can above and below ground, and equally at the same time 3 foot above is 3 foot below.  quote]
> 
> Can you show me the source for this information? As I know it to be completely false.
> 
> Maybe you have a log of your experiment? If so i'll be able to show you where you went wrong.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Feb 27, 2008)

*Play nice guys we don't need the drama.  *


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## benamucc (Feb 27, 2008)

I believe that I'm currently experiencing root bind in my first 2 plants.  They've slowed drasticly in growth, and the bottom few leaves yellowed, and fell off with no other ill effects on the plants.  One is in a slightly smaller pot than the other, and proportionatly smaller.  

Now here's MY question...if I go to flower in these pots while the plants are bound is that going to be ok since I've been told they'll continue to grow in the first few weeks of flower??


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## SmokinMom (Feb 27, 2008)

Hey benamucc, since you have 2 possibly root-bound, why not transplant just one to a bigger pot and see what happens first hand.


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## NewSkoolHarvester (Feb 27, 2008)

benamucc said:
			
		

> I believe that I'm currently experiencing root bind in my first 2 plants. They've slowed drasticly in growth, and the bottom few leaves yellowed, and fell off with no other ill effects on the plants. One is in a slightly smaller pot than the other, and proportionatly smaller.
> 
> Now here's MY question...if I go to flower in these pots while the plants are bound is that going to be ok since I've been told they'll continue to grow in the first few weeks of flower??


 
it is natural for the lower leaves to die and fall off as the plant grows, as these leaves have little access to light. The reason why one of your plants is smaller is because they are seed plants... why, one could be male and the other female, or it could even be that they are of varying phenotype.

If your plants haven't pre-flowered then you simply haven't been vegging long enough to be experiencing anyone's interpretation of 'root bound'.


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## Dubbaman (Feb 27, 2008)

NewSkoolHarvester said:
			
		

> Dubbaman said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## berserker (Feb 27, 2008)

I'll tell you,I grow in 4 gal square and 1 Gal pots.I dont get bigger plants like I do in 4 gal,I especially dont get a bigger yield like I do in a 4 gal.I say unless your name is Jack and you got some magical beans.You will not out grow or yield bigger pots.One of the reasons for this is less root base for your root system to grow in.Once that root base is used up,your plant will become root bound.The growth will be stunted,you will have to water more.Making sure now,you dont get root rot now,because of the extra watering.I will tell you my plants that are in 1 gal pots at the end of harvest are so root-bound that sometimes there are roots coming out of the soil,out of the drain holes.Why you ask?This is where it gets interesting,its root-bound and getting choked out by its own root system.The roots need oxygen,with it root bound like your cutting the oxygen out."MJ "prefers" to dry out between waterings. It aids in getting oxygen to the roots and promotes a larger root mass. (more root mass more plant mass) Watering daily is not a good idea. "IMHO" The only way mj should require daily watering, is if it is root bound, the pot is to small for the plant."

We can keep going back and forth like this.But to keep it real,dont let your plants get root bound,you will notice the difference.Cause ANY ONE knows.
BIGGER pots=Bigger pot,I just made that up and you can use that New school:hubba: Keep it GREEN 



> I know it is real anyone who has tried to grow 2 plants in one potter can say it i have not only did the plants suffer in their nutrient uptake, they suffered in total yield. Also any one can say it only takes a small root ball to grow a small plant (duh) thats the key word there small, Ive let my plants get to 3-4 ft in 2 gal potter no prob and the root binding came into effect keeping the plant small. Look theres that key word again. What seems to be the question here regardless of who's book you choose to read, seems to be, that if you want a big plant and a small root system can it happen and the answer is a big fat no it cant,


Hey Dubb,I understood what you were saying,just some people are a little more thick headed


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## HippyInEngland (Feb 27, 2008)

Sometimes its best to just to let it pass and stop posting to a thread.


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## berserker (Feb 27, 2008)

HippyInEngland said:
			
		

> Sometimes its best to just to let it pass and stop posting to a thread.


You are right on that HIE,but we need to get the right info out,to people that are looking for the right answers. Otherwise,why are we here?Keep it GREEN


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## SmokinMom (Feb 27, 2008)

Yea, I think this has run its course.

Thread closed.


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## Hick (Feb 27, 2008)

> 2. Flaming, or open argument including, but not limited to using derogatory names toward another member, degrading comments, racial insults and sexist comments are not acceptable for use anywhere in the open forums or in the chat room...
> This site has always been a refuge for those who dislike the tension and aggravation of other sites that allow the things we don't. We have a very friendly, caring and helpful membership here. Please help us to keep it that way....



*SITE RULES*


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