# If a hermie pollinates a female are the seeds any good?



## Timmyjg6 (May 8, 2008)

:yeahthat:


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## godspeedsuckah (May 8, 2008)

That is a good question and also opened the floor to much debate. I have worked with a very stable strain, no issues whatsoever of hermi characteristics, but yet they still dropped a couple balls and gave me a couple seeds. I really believe that it is natural for marijuana to hermaphrodite.


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## Runbyhemp (May 8, 2008)

I wouldn't think they would be much good ... don't hermies procreate hermies ?


> I really believe that it is natural for marijuana to hermaphrodite.


It is natural to hermaphrodite under "unnatural" circumstances.


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## godspeedsuckah (May 8, 2008)

Runbyhemp said:
			
		

> It is natural to hermaphrodite under "unnatural" circumstances.



Not necessarily. I have read alot of post's where plants dropped balls nearing the end of flowering to help continue the cycle.


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## Hick (May 8, 2008)

hermies are detrimental to quality genetics. For decades,(possibly centuries,) breeders have avoided and selectively bred to get away from them. Only recently with the femminised craze, have hermies became a desirable trait.
  Hermies procreate hermies.  
  If you allow high quality mj to go ferral, grow wild, with absolutely no intervention, selection from man, it will revert to hemp. Why?.. because the male genetics will be dominated by "early" flowering males and/or "hermaphrodite". 
  The respected and reputable breeders of today, that have brought us the highest quality mj ever in recorded history, know this and have selected for it.
  It is also why those same reputable breeders, recommend selecting late flowering males for your x's. Mny believe that the secret to inproving the 'quality' of drug grade mj. lies in the recessive traits of the late flowering males.


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## godspeedsuckah (May 8, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> It is also why those same reputable breeders, recommend selecting late flowering males for your x's. Mny believe that the secret to inproving the 'quality' of drug grade mj. lies in the recessive traits of the late flowering males.



I am not following you on this Hick.


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## Hick (May 8, 2008)

godspeed.. read dj shorts article on caaloging and selection, from the breeding section on the resourc page. He can likely explain it much better than I.
.


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## Timmyjg6 (May 8, 2008)

So are the seeds any good??


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## Hick (May 8, 2008)

IMO....no. They carry the hermie tendency..trait...genetics, and should be destroyed.


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## Puffin Afatty (May 8, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> IMO....no. They carry the hermie tendency..trait...genetics, and should be destroyed.


 
_That said, dutch masters reverse will keep the plants from seeding again.  If you are just after stash, you can continue to use the seeds, but you need to spray the plants in weeks, 1, 2 and 3  of flower cycle to kill the male flowers.:hubba: _

_hermies beget hermies, they are worthless to breed with. _


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## MARY-JANE (May 9, 2008)

Puffin Afatty said:
			
		

> _That said, dutch masters reverse will keep the plants from seeding again. If you are just after stash, you can continue to use the seeds, but you need to spray the plants in weeks, 1, 2 and 3 of flower cycle to kill the male flowers.:hubba: _
> 
> _hermies beget hermies, they are worthless to breed with. _


 
well that is what u say but spray them with what?


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## trillions of atoms (May 10, 2008)

ive seen this thread pop up new over n over....



please dont grow hermi seeds of any kind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!   .....


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## Hick (May 10, 2008)

MARY-JANE said:
			
		

> well that is what u say


.."THAT" is what any concientious breeder, or seedmaker with a single clue of genetics say. Anyone interested in producing or furthering the quality of mj, will not, should not, has not used hermies as breeders. THEY ARE POISON  to any breeding project.
Please, do just a li'l reading, research. You will find that the 'breeders' that have produced the "benchmark" strains that are considered the "best, most potent" mj of today, say the same thing.  The most potent pot in recorded history is being produced today, becuase of carefull selective breeding. Selecting only the "best" to be pollinated by only the "best".
 Hermaphrodism has NEVER been considered a desirable characteristic.


> but spray them with what?


"_dutch masters reverse "....

_


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## Dankerz (May 12, 2008)

our last grow we had just 1 seed out of a supossed bag of sweetTooth that we grew out and it grew super fast,superlush,superdank,short,squat,showed sex second day of 12/12 and was one of the greatest plants we have stuck in our garden up to the point on which it turned hermie at around the 6 or 7th week of 12/12 producing pollen and we let it pollinate itself an a few Jwakefords we had in the same room.. we shed alot of pollen around but the pollen only produced just a few seeds on all that were pollinated> all in all the seeds from this sweettooth turning hermie gave out all female pollen and seeds & all self pollinating themselves at around the 6th week of flower..and only about 10 seeds per plant.


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## Hick (May 12, 2008)

Dankerz said:
			
		

> our last grow we had just 1 seed out of a supossed bag of sweetTooth that we grew out and it grew super fast,superlush,superdank,short,squat,showed sex second day of 12/12 and was one of the greatest plants we have stuck in our garden up to the point on which it turned hermie at around the 6 or 7th week of 12/12 producing pollen and we let it pollinate itself an a few Jwakefords we had in the same room.. we shed alot of pollen around but the pollen only produced just a few seeds on all that were pollinated> all in all the seeds from this sweettooth turning hermie gave out all female pollen and seeds & all self pollinating themselves at around the 6th week of flower..and only about 10 seeds per plant.


It matters little if there were 1 seed or ten thousand seeds. They ARE embellished with the hermie gene, characteristic, trait.....and will only further the propensity of ALL offspring to hermie.
  These are xctly the type of scenarios that "I" believe has brought about the much higher ratio of hermaphrodite plants in todays grows. 
Unsuspecting or uninformed growers"assuming" that seeds are seeds, and because they were found in 'decent' bag of weed, or came off of a plant that was good smoke, that they are "good" seeds.
 Never considering the poison genetics involved.

  If you own a Show quality, "Grand Champion" Labrador retriever, do you allow it to be bred to the alley running, biscuit stealing, egg sucking, one nutted, mongrel that runs the neighborhood ?.. 
Or do you "selectively" search out another truely fine Labrador specimen, with _desirable_ characteristics to breed to?


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## Cole (May 12, 2008)

I think that premo strains ike WW or whatever should only be bred with another premo strain.


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## Dankerz (May 12, 2008)

hick i have thought that myself for many years now..this is the reason even true top notch strains go hermie because they just didnt breed them the right way they didnt seek out that true specimen it should have been.
..this swttooth was and still is topnotch even with the 1-2 hermie pods that come out..who would not want a strain that kicks out very fem female beans each time.  i also think on the other hand a good plant is where you find it and when you do you will know it!


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## Mutt (May 13, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> It matters little if there were 1 seed or ten thousand seeds. They ARE embellished with the hermie gene, characteristic, trait.....and will only further the propensity of ALL offspring to hermie.



Just felt the need to quote this.
Once hermie trait is in...I seen peeps swear they got it out. 
Once its there...In my experience its done and over...chasing a dream trying to back cross it out. Just get good established strains from reputable peeps...oh and BTW just cuz these money grubbing seed banks say its "true breeding" don't trust until you test yourself...just my 2 cents.
I am not saying all of the breeder packs are bad...but I would test em out...never know..seen some breeders issuing warnings on ICmag b4 human=possible error.


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## smokybear (May 13, 2008)

Just get good seeds from a reputable seedbank and dont grow hermi seeds! Just my thoughts. Take care and be safe. Great thread, by the way. Lots of great information.


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## Firepower (May 13, 2008)

so can this traits become extinct or can a grower actually grrow a set of plants back to good strains?  :aok:


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## Shovelhandle (Jun 6, 2008)

Here is the only hermie out of the dozen plants. As you can see, it has very little male parts. See the little yellow things? There is also some seed developement but not a lot. The buds are hard and dense, the smell is sweet and I'm sure the smoke will be great. The trics are some clear some cloudy and maybe 2% amber.
I flushed with a hose for half an hour yesterday and today it is put in darkness for a day and a half or two before I cut it down to dry. The other female plants (where the seeds were from a female polinated by a stress induced hermie) are kicking *** and will be done right on time on June 14th. The hermie should be dry and three weeks of curing time by July 4th, the "deadline". So, we'll have fresh medicine for the holiday.
Any seed from this plant will be destroyed.
This grow proved to me that you can get a decent grow from feminized seeds.  One dozen seeds, eleven females, and the one hermie.
Next grow I'll be into commercial genetics with Neville's Haze and AK-47.

So, here's the star of the post.  Notice the little yellow male parts (sorry for the quality of the pics).  There is only one male flower in the second photo.


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## Puffin Afatty (Jun 6, 2008)

Timmyjg6 said:
			
		

> :yeahthat:


 
_Howdy Timmy!!! _

_Hermie seeds will produce only hermies, forever.  It is possible to eliminate the stress and a plant wont show male characteristics, but it is still a hermie.  _

_Only stable XX seeds from an XX Mom, are suitable for breeding, unless you like hermies.  You can eliminate the male flowers with DUTCH MASTERS REVERSE, getting a normal harvest of sensi, but the plant is still a hermie. _

_I deliberately induce stress to weed out the hermies when I find a strain I like, if I cant get it to hermie with light manipulation, temperature manipulation or nute manipulation, I figger She is worthy of a spot in my pantry.:hubba: _

_the stress I put my SnowWhite thru is enuf to kill most plants and no sign of male flowers. _


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## thief (Jun 6, 2008)

well i`m not an expert by any streatch of the imagination but the way i see it is this... hermies are a natural phenominon. or they used to be. now with all the seed bank capitalistic dogs manipulateing the seeds to be (feminized) for the sake of a quick buck is causing what used to be an oddity to be common place. i been growing off an on since the early 70`s and till this past year i never seen one. how ever till this last year i didnt do indoor grows either. maybe the intinsity of the mh light @24/7 has some effect on it too. i dont know. the point i`m trying to make is nature has allowed hermies prolly from the beginning of time so i cant say it is all bad. i do however think that purposly creating hermies via chemicals is totally wrong. boycot all them feminized seeds. watch yer crops an pull the males and we`ll all be better off. wow started out as 2 cents an turned into a quarter sorry


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## Hick (Jun 7, 2008)

thief said:
			
		

> well i`m not an expert by any streatch of the imagination but the way i see it is this... hermies are a natural phenominon. or they used to be. now with all the seed bank capitalistic dogs manipulateing the seeds to be (feminized) for the sake of a quick buck is causing what used to be an oddity to be common place. i been growing off an on since the early 70`s and till this past year i never seen one. how ever till this last year i didnt do indoor grows either. maybe the intinsity of the mh light @24/7 has some effect on it too. i dont know. the point i`m trying to make is nature has allowed hermies prolly from the beginning of time so i cant say it is all bad. i do however think that purposly creating hermies via chemicals is totally wrong. boycot all them feminized seeds. watch yer crops an pull the males and we`ll all be better off. wow started out as 2 cents an turned into a quarter sorry


  I agree. "hermis are a natural phenom'".. but not a "desirable" phenom'..  They poison your sensi' with undesirable and potentialy harmfull(to the gene pool) seeds.
   I don't know how many times I have typed this here, but once again..
  "If drug quality mj is left to go feral, within a few generations it will revert to hemp. Why?.. becuse the paternal side of the gene pool will be dominated by hermies and/or earliest flowering males." 
  For decades, if not centuries, the true "breeders" that have brought us the high thc, quality pot of today, have concienciously bred "away" from the hermie tendency. Most feel/believe that the secret to improving thc production and higher quality herb, lies in the 'recessive' traits of late flowering males. (it's been working) 
  Hermies have always been around, but have also been "selectively" culled, up untill the recent "femminisation" craze. "I" believe that THAT is at least, patially to blame for the recent influx of more hermies.. just "M.O."

interesting note on the 24/0 mh issue, too thiefe.  food for thought


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## BigTree420 (Jun 8, 2008)

i agree...i recently was interested in learning more about feminized seeds and trying to grow some but should have listened to the people on here telling me no...so far i have about half fem and half reg seeds all ordered off a reputable site and the reg seeds are doing so much better, not to mention they cost about 1/10th of the price of fem seeds...imo its better to just take clones to assure females, and stay away from the fem seeds...breeders need to take notice and not be greedy  in looking to make that extra $...stay away from hermies and fem seeds!:bong2:


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## ChatNoir (Jun 8, 2008)

I believe we shouldn't be too harsh on hermaphrodite plants, you may be desperate with no access to seeds, and only one hermaphrodite plants so in order to keep breeding you can let hermaphrodite live and select the male plants and females plants from its seeds, females will carry on the hermaphrodite genetics recessively and these traits may surface any time in future though you can still use them if you are desperate enough...

Desperate times requires desperate measures.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 8, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> I believe we shouldn't be too harsh on hermaphrodite plants, you may be desperate with no access to seeds, and only one hermaphrodite plants so in order to keep breeding you can let hermaphrodite live and select the male plants and females plants from its seeds, females will carry on the hermaphrodite genetics recessively and these traits may surface any time in future though you can still use them if you are desperate enough...
> 
> Desperate times requires desperate measures.



Sorry, I just can't go with that.  It just simply contaminates the genetics.  You can get quality seeds from a reputable seed bank for $35.  If you can't spring for that, maybe you should find another "hobby".

You are not going to get male plants from hermie seeds.  And the hermaphrodite gene is not necessarily recessive.


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## Hick (Jun 8, 2008)

> You are not going to get male plants from hermie seeds. And the hermaphrodite gene is not necessarily recessive.


...AND, the more it is done, (breeding with hermies), the more predominant it will become.


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Jun 8, 2008)

exactly... it is a *DEFECT *within the genetics, and HAS to be removed from the gene pool if it is going to be eliminated... not carried on....


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## ChatNoir (Jun 8, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Sorry, I just can't go with that.  It just simply contaminates the genetics.  You can get quality seeds from a reputable seed bank for $35.  If you can't spring for that, maybe you should find another "hobby".
> 
> You are not going to get male plants from hermie seeds.  And the hermaphrodite gene is not necessarily recessive.



Please do not misunderstood me, there are some peoples out there, desperate enough to cling to 2 years old bag seeds and hoping that they will sprout, there are people where seed banks are inaccessible and there are people whom can not reach proper equipment though they have a fondness for cannabis plant.

If a seed bank is accessible, you can easily spend 100$ on seeds, because without good genetics, your system is limited and crippled but if not accessible, no seeds can be found, one crippled genetic is valued as gold in weight.

Hermaphrodite genes are not necessarily to be recessive and they are not necessarily to be dominant and in both cases there is a chance to see a plant showing single sex at F3.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 9, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> Please do not misunderstood me, there are some peoples out there, desperate enough to cling to 2 years old bag seeds and hoping that they will sprout, there are people where seed banks are inaccessible and there are people whom can not reach proper equipment though they have a fondness for cannabis plant.
> 
> If a seed bank is accessible, you can easily spend 100$ on seeds, because without good genetics, your system is limited and crippled but if not accessible, no seeds can be found, one crippled genetic is valued as gold in weight.
> 
> Hermaphrodite genes are not necessarily to be recessive and they are not necessarily to be dominant and in both cases there is a chance to see a plant showing single sex at F3.



Maybe so, but none of that makes it right.  They should not be encouraged.  "Peoples" out there need to know that it is not okay to plant hermie seeds...I don't care if that is all they have access to (yeah, and I wanted to race in the Indy 500, but all I have is a 91 Acura).  Actually, virtually everyone in the world can get seeds shipped to them.  While I understand that you can easily spend $100+, you can also get some good beans for a decent price.  For instance, Mandala Seeds have several strains that are 10 for $25.00 + $7-10 shipping.  So, I will say this again--If you cannot spend $35 on good seeds, maybe you should find another "hobby".


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## ChatNoir (Jun 9, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Maybe so, but none of that makes it right.  They should not be encouraged.  "Peoples" out there need to know that it is not okay to plant hermie seeds...I don't care if that is all they have access to (yeah, and I wanted to race in the Indy 500, but all I have is a 91 Acura).  Actually, virtually everyone in the world can get seeds shipped to them.  While I understand that you can easily spend $100+, you can also get some good beans for a decent price.  For instance, Mandala Seeds have several strains that are 10 for $25.00 + $7-10 shipping.  So, I will say this again--If you cannot spend $35 on good seeds, maybe you should find another "hobby".



I hope you will never fall into this kind of desperate situation. Problem is not money, problem is customs offices. In anycase in a desperate situation, given time and efford, a hermie can beat up the best skunk over there. I don't know if you did but I take bioistatistics as a lesson, it is possible to isolate best genes from worst hermie. As soon as I make two seperate cabinets.


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## Hick (Jun 10, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> I hope you will never fall into this kind of desperate situation. Problem is not money, problem is customs offices. In anycase in a desperate situation, given time and efford, a hermie can beat up the best skunk over there. I don't know if you did but I take bioistatistics as a lesson, it is possible to isolate best genes from worst hermie. As soon as I make two seperate cabinets.



   "I" can't agree.... IMHO...You will/would need "_at least"_ one of true gender, either a male or a female,.. "at minimum".. in order to isolate and attempt to 'eliminate' the hermie gene. .. 
  "Theoretically" you could breed it down to a very minimal propensity, but it will always lie in the recessive qualities. 

   Corne'.. I don't know your situation. So I will refrain from any harsh judgements . If that is _absolutely_ the only seed that you have available to work with, I wish you the very best of luck.  I promise you, you have a very long and taxing project before you...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 10, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> I hope you will never fall into this kind of desperate situation. Problem is not money, problem is customs offices. In anycase in a desperate situation, given time and efford, a hermie can beat up the best skunk over there. I don't know if you did but I take bioistatistics as a lesson, it is possible to isolate best genes from worst hermie. As soon as I make two seperate cabinets.



LOL--Trust me, I have been in desperate circumstances...

Whether the hermie trait can be bred out is debatable, however that is not really what this thread is about.  This is inexperienced growers wondering if it is okay to plant hermie seeds.  The short answer is a resounding, No".


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