# Growing Feminised Seed indoor HELP



## CVD1983

Hi All,
         This is my 2nd attempt at growing some nice indoor buds. My 1st grow I was given clones and had a successful yield. This time I've tried from seed with imported feminised seeds (purple haze, Pineapple Express).
I would like to hear people's thoughts and opinions on my setup and general operation. Tips and advice much appreciated.

My grow room is: 

1.5m x 1.2m x 2.4m
Top fed recirculating drip system x 2 large tubs (internal)
Large nutrient tank (external)
600w HPS light
Charcoal filter with extraction fan
Rockwool

To sprout seed I've made hole size of finger 1 inch deep in centre of Rockwool, I gently placed seeds in hole, covered with Rockwool. I've set timers to water 15 mins every 4 hours. Light is 2-2.5 ft above medium set on 18/6.
Is there anything wrong about doing it like this? I've found so much miss leading information in regards to my technique. Am I wasting time or is this ok?
I also used a cap full of nutrients in water just assuming it would need it. I've read now maybe that was wrong also. Am I watering it to much? I really am just winging it!
Thanks for any help and input! 

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## Surfer Joe

Perhaps an unventilated reflector for a 600 w hps will produce too much heat.
With photoperiod plants, I prefer to veg them under 24 hr light then switch them to 12/12 when I want them to begin flower. 
I found that they begin to show pistils much sooner than when I used 18/6 during veg.
Normally, it took about 10-14 days for the first pistils to show under 18/6 but only 5 days to show pistils when started under 24 hr light.


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## Rosebud

Please read and follow the directions on the bottle before just throwing in a capfull of nutes. Others will be by that know more than me about your set up.. Green mojo for the grow.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I am not quite understanding your hydro system.  Could you tell us a bit more?  What nutrients are you using? Do you have a pH meter and a PPM meter?  With hydro, it is critical that pH levels be kept within certin ranges for proper nutrient uptake. 

I personally believe that it is best to start seeds in something like a small rockwool cube or rapid rooter and water by hand and then transfer to the hydro unit after the seed is established and showing good root growth.

I also run my veg lights 24/7.  You may also have problems using HPS all the way through.  Plants prefer a light in the blue spectrum for vegging, something in the 6500K range.  Running HPS (red light in the 2500-3000K range) for vegging will probably result in rangy willowy plants.  If you have a digital ballast, you could change out to a MH bulb for vegging.

I also agree that you will probably have a hard time keeping your space cool without an air coolable hood.  What are your temps running?  What kibnd and size extraction fan did you get?

This is not a good hobby to make assumptions.  It is important to have a good understanding of what cannabis needs to thrive and then do that.  Growing cannabis is not like growing veggies or ornamentals.  Cannabis can be very picky and difficult sometimes.  Learn all you can.  Don't feed without knowing when and how much they should be fed.


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## CVD1983

Oh ok, I will give it a go and turn light to 24/7.  Nutes I use is called Growrite. 
Bottle recommends 5ml per litre for full strength at 1400 PPM. 
I test the Nutrient tanks PH daily, seems to vary between 5-7
If it's higher than 6.5 I'll add a cap full of ph down to bring it back to 5-6ish
Temperature is always 25c or 75f, the 6inch inline duct extraction fan I have hooked up to filter seems to really do its job. Have had no issues with ventilation or temperature so far. 

My system is 3 large tubs (600x400x200) which sit on bricks and are all set to the same height. 
They are all plumbed and connected with 1.5 inch hoses. 2 are inside the grow room as photo I uploaded shows. The other is outside room for easy changing and checking of water ph n nutrients. 
Then inside room on the 2 tubs sits another 2 tubs. this tub has holes for drainage in bottom.
This is used for the Rockwool medium. 
All 3 tubs have Air stones and external tank has a heater also. 
The water pump is in the External Tank which will pump to top of both tubs inside room and drip feeds plant as required. The Water then obviously drains through Rockwool over seed/plant roots and back into bottom tub/tank. Recirculating. It seems to be a really easy and low maintenance system because the roots are always in water/nutrients and still get the oxygen they require. 
I've never used seed directly in Rockwool before and as there are no roots hanging down into bottom tank like using clones, I'm not sure if I'm watering to much. 
I hope I made sense explains my system. 
Again thanks 

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## CVD1983

Grow room cupboard with external tank on right under table 

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## CVD1983

Tubs 

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## CVD1983

External tank with water pump and heater. Easy nutrient replacement and checking of ph 

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## CVD1983

Charcoal filter and 150 ml inline extraction fan fitted to roof of grow room 

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## Gooch

ok well i would say seedlings do not use anything greater then 200-400 ppm, if you hit seedlings with 1400ppm you will fry them i wouldnt recommend 1400ppm ever in veg the highest i go is 600ppm in veg.
additionally you need to get a ppm pen and a ph meter not liquid drops meant for a pool or aquarium. I would get a sealed hood that allows you to cool the light, also it appears you are using a hps bulb but uou want a mh bulb or cfl's or t5, something with blue and white in it, hps is strictly for flowering.


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## CVD1983

Thanks for all the info. Great to hear from experienced growers. I'm heading to shops first thing in morning! Excited!!


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## CVD1983

Please Help... What am I doing wrong? Watering to much? 

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## Gooch

im not even sure what im looking at? what type of medium is that and you need less powerful light and the container is much to large to start a seedling imo


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## The Hemp Goddess

Like Gooch, I am still not really understanding your hydro system.  I don't use rockwool because I have a hard time controlling how wet the medium stays.  But I am thinking that 15 minutes every 4 hours may be too much water and keep the rockwool too wet.  I don't understand the tub within the tub?  Is it going to be possible to take this apart to clean?  Did you copy this system from somewhere?  

As I mentioned in another post seeds should be started in something small so you can control things and then transplanted to the hydro unit when you have good roots.  I do suspect that the rockwool is staying too moist and like Gooch mentioned, the light is too strong for seedlings.  I also would say that you do not need a res heater, especially in the summer and with a pump in the solution.  Res temps that are too high are way more of a problem than res temps that are too low.

I also question how and where you are taking temperature readings.  I have grown for decades and I simply cannot believe that a small duct booster fan on a big carbon filter with a batwing hood can keep temps in the mid 70s in the summer. 

Did you remove the water with the nutrients in it?  Did you get a pH meter and get the pH where it should be?   Can you tell me more about your nutrients, I have never heard of them?  What are the N-P-K?  Do they have seperate vegging and flowering formulas?  Are they formulated for cannabis?


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## grass hopper

CVD, nothing against all other methods. i know they all work well...    what i know some about is dirt. ITS EASY!! start in rapid rooters for 1 week. Keep them wet. transplant into good soil, foxfarm based. into 5 by 5 inch pots +/-. food is in soil, no feeding for 3 to 5 weeks. a little nitrogen only if needed. transplant into 5 gal felt pots. feed heavy (flower foods) till harvest...   EASY..  Have read SO many issues with new growers. easy is good with new growers. much fewer issues. jmo

gooch is correct. should be in a solo size cup now. light up 18 inches or more. t5s for new borns is best...almost NO FOOD YET. Babies are soo fragile..


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## Gooch

o ok that is rockwool? ok so then you should only be adding water as it gets dry, its very good at holding water and amkes a great starter medium just use small 1x1 cubes then move it into a 3x3 after rooted


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## CVD1983

The Nutes I use I'll post pic. The PH tester was a little bit expensive for me right now, I will purchase one but I don't have spare $300 at moment so will have to wait. My hydroponic system is pretty common here in Australia. I've seen many just like it. The tubs are cleaned before each grow but other than that I don't clean them till finished. I use external tub to drain and replace water and nutes. The top tub hold my rock wool. Bottom tub is full with water. The roots grow down into water and that's how they stay. I just assumed this was a pretty common system. I'm going to try save this seedling seems to have grown a little over night. But yes next time I will be using the Rockwool cubes and germinating. The light I have is probly too much but for now I'll continue with it. 

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## Gooch

ok well a ph pen cost about 90 dollars you def dont need a 300 dollar one, it important to make sure you let things dry out a bit the plant needs air to breath, and you should not be feeding the plant anything till at least you start seeing new growth then a very very very light solution. like 100-200 ppm


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## CVD1983

Oh really? In that case I better shop around. 
I've now shut down all feeding and just kept light at distance. I will post a drawing of my setup to help explain... Thanx heaps 

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## Gooch

also pleaase change the light from high pressure sodium (hps) to metal halide(MH)


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## CVD1983

&#55357;&#56397;


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## sopappy

I've never tried seeds under an HPS. I'm thinking EasyBake oven (I modified my sisters) 
Good that you're finding out about the heat issues with an HPS but put it away until flower. If I may, Gooch... he's describing a Metal Halide bulb which is a better spectrum for Vegetative cycle. I use T5s 6000K for seedlings and veg, fan blowing across canopy
only 300ppm water (grocery store mineral water) first couple nodes, seed embryos come with built-in goodness (equivalent of plant breastfeeding)


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## Gooch

yes i appologize if i was not clear, ideally in vegetative growth period from birth to 3 months the plant is searching for the color blue. it will stretch and stretch until it can find blue or it dies trying. I started my grows using cfl bulbs in the daylight spectrum, and they worked incredibly so much so that i passed them on to other new growers as i moved onto t5's. In flower when its time to switch the plant to 12/12 then you want more on the red spectrum which is the hps high pressure sodium that is the bulb you are currently using


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## CVD1983

Sorry another question... Now have 1 healthy seedling... And and was given a clone... Have put clone in 2 tub, it's now looking healthy. Just wondering if there's any way to keep both seedling and clone. They are both at different stages obviously. I've moved light over to seedling side of room as picture will show. Am I just wasting time or is there anything I can do to keep both plants... Was thinking of pulling seedling out and just keeping clone but I seedling has rooted in well now so would in my opinion if moved would only destroy. Any ideas?? 

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## CVD1983

Also I have spoken to store owner at the hydro shop, he tells me it's fine to use HPS throughout the entire grow, just uses more power. I'm going to stick with the HPS and see What happens, so far so good.


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## The Hemp Goddess

There are reasons to not use HPS during vegging other than power usage.  If your grow store person does not know this, I don't think I would be for taking their advise.


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## Gooch

lol i love when people say they talked the guy who owns the grow store. technically you are right you can grow with a candle, why not give that a shot? when we are growing indoors the goal is to create an ideal world for your cannabis to flourish in and give you all the magical goodness she can possibly muster. but that wont happen when you hinder the process.


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## grass hopper

:yeahthat:


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## CVD1983

I really should apologise and say thanks for ALL your advice and helpful tips. I'm only a beginner so everything I'm reading I am taking in. I guess I got sucked into the store mans ability to sound like he knows what he's talking about. The more I've researched the more I can see what yous are talking about. I will definitely be purchasing some new gardening equipment when I get the chance.
Again Thank yous all!


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## CVD1983

I put seed in 2.5 weeks ago and she looks great... I think lol 

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## CVD1983

As for the clone I was given... It's been 8 days and she looks quite sick. I assumed transplant shock and would have thought she'd be back on track by now. Her leaves have gone lime green and wilting... Maybe I'm over watering. I've tried to fined watering schedules for my kind of system but nothing. 

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## sopappy

CVD1983 said:


> Also I have spoken to store owner at the hydro shop, he tells me it's fine to use HPS throughout the entire grow, just uses more power. I'm going to stick with the HPS and see What happens, so far so good.



Depending on your ballast, you can probably stick a Metal Halide bulb in there and save your HPS bulb for flower.


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## Gooch

also you dont need to use all that power for veg. i used cfl's for a long time very inexpensive to buy and run and they have the perfect spectrum for vegging plants might spend 100 on 10 bulbs and plugs enough to veg 10 plants easy


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## CVD1983

Thanks


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## The Hemp Goddess

Your seed baby looks great and the clone is not looking that bad.  Don't give up on it.

First, tell us what kind of ballast you have.  If it is digital or convertible, you may just be able to use a metal halide bulb in the ballast you have (did your grow store person inquire about the type ballast you have?).  Otherwise, I would save for a T5 fluoro light.  While CFLs will work, they are actually costier and run hotter than other forms of lighting.  If you are buying something specifically for vegging, I say go with a T5 fluoro tube fixture.


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## CVD1983

LOL, Is it sad I can't even tell what kind of ballast I have...??? 

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## CVD1983

The bulbs I was given with kit..!! 

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## Hushpuppy

That looks like its a magnetic ballast. Does it have any switches on it? you are looking for HPS/MH switch (if it has one). Does that Lucagrow bulb say on the side of the box if it is a MH or HPS? It looks like both bulbs are HPS as the MH are usually fatter and rounder.


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## Gooch

no its a straight hps ballast, there is no option for mh on that. I suggest either getting a t5 if there is a local hydro store, or if not get yourself some cfl daylights


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## CVD1983

Yeah checked ballast... Defly no switch. I will have to talk to hydroponic shop when I'm there next.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Is this the same place that told you that a HPS is fine to use all the way through?


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## CVD1983

Lol.... Yeah!! I know but i live in a remote part of Australia. Not many other options down here.


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## Gooch

if you have the funds get a t5, not sure how much they are in AU, or how much cfl daylight bulbs are. over here in the USA they are both fairly inexpensive


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## CVD1983

I can only assume but like everything else compared to the USA... We seem to pay a LOT more. I will suss some prices. Hopefully it not to much. I've seen the ph testers for $299. Apparently there only $90 in US... Nearly worth shipping 1 over if that's the case!


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## CVD1983

Please Help... I came home from work and found my seedlings bottom fan leaves dried and spotted as picture shows. Any ideas? 

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## CVD1983

?? 

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## Hushpuppy

That appears to be solution burn. If leaves get wet with solution or even clean water and the strong light is hitting them, that will bun the leaves. If its solution (nutrient mix) then the leaves can get chemical burn. If you have water droplets on leaves during "daylight", those droplets become little magnifying lenses for the light. That will give you burn spots.

However that being a bottom leaf where its easy to get moisture/solution on them, that's very easy to have happen. Don't worry about the bottom leaves. As the plant grows, those leaves get beat up, wet, and left in the shade to yellow off. If the yellowing begins to climb the plant of shows a certain pattern, I would worry about it.


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## CVD1983

Phew.... Thankyou for your wise words. Can sleep at night again!


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## Gooch

also those leaves will never heal so you can cut em off, they are just water leaves


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## The Hemp Goddess

I, personally, wouldn't cut them off.  It is just a guess that they were hit with nutrient solution.  If you are not checking and regulating your pH, you could well have a problem with it  is causing the leaf thing.  See if it gets better, worse, or the same.  I seldom remove damaged leaves--the plant will drop them as soon as they have taken everything from t they can.

Bear in mind that pH meters come in all prices.  We can also spend hundreds and hundreds on a pH meter or we can get one for $50 or so.  Check online.  Grow stores are most often overpriced.  I can get most things from Amazon cheaper than I can get most things locally at a grow store.


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## CVD1983

I've been checking ph twice a day, seems to be stable... 5.5 - 6 
Needing to add ph down every couple days tho. 
Plant is looking healthy other than those leaves. I did spill some Nutes on them so would explain the burn. 
I use the little pool testing ph kit. I know this isn't really the best option but it's doing the job for now. I will look online and get some prices. 
Plants are really starting to take off now. Very exciting!


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## Hushpuppy

If you can afford it, get the Bluelab pH pen and storage solution. You will also need the 2 calibration solutions as well. These are necessary for keeping the pen reading accurately. They are worth the money to me.


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## Gooch

yea i agree with hp when it comes to tools and nutrients i only go with the best


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## grass hopper

Hushpuppy said:


> If you can afford it, get the Bluelab pH pen and storage solution. You will also need the 2 calibration solutions as well. These are necessary for keeping the pen reading accurately. They are worth the money to me.


 
the only ph checker i've used is the "CHECKER" by HANNA instruments. about $35.,  red in color. the one i bought is about 5 years old and never has seen a drop of storage solution in it. i checked the unit for accuracy last week and was almost perfect. i was impressed.i think they are worth every penny as well for indoor use especially.


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## Hushpuppy

I have heard mixed reviews on the Hanna instruments. However I do have a Hanna TDS pen that has held up well for me.


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## grass hopper

Hushpuppy said:


> I have heard mixed reviews on the Hanna instruments. However I do have a Hanna TDS pen that has held up well for me.


 
i love them. i did have another one that i gave to a new guy starting out. it went about 5 years as well and was still working great with no care other than storage in original box between uses..gonna ck out tds pen.


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## Gooch

I have bought 5 hanna red meters lol dont touch the screw whatever you do


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## grass hopper

Gooch said:


> I have bought 5 hanna red meters lol dont touch the screw whatever you do


 
the adjustment screws?? i have only had to make the most minor adjustments, up or down. there were no issues and functioned perfectly. (5)?? gotta be a story behind that.. u using a screw gun??:laugh:


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## CVD1983

Found some much cheaper options online. Now just waiting for package to arrive &#55357;&#56842;

Also I've had a lot of trouble with my clone... 
Seems it's still alive but doesn't look healthy... Just stayed the same since I transplanted it. 
I was watching my other plant growing well next to it but now that also seems to have just stopped growing.
 Any ideas? 
I've monitored th ph with my shitty tester, obviously waiting for new one to arrive. But was going so well before so thinking might be something else.
The very little new growth I have had seems to be light green and twisted kinda curling, larger leaves look fine tho. 
Tips are a little burnt, I'm guessing Nutes may have been to strong. I've since flushed and adjusted Nutes but hasn't done much, been 3 days. No new growth.
I've read forum after forum and had mixed reviews. 

Also my system I have, I can not find anywhere online. I'm wondering if it's actually set up right...


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## Gooch

what system do you have again some odd thing i think i remember reading and questioning prior, currently to lazy to go back and read, if you are in soil or soilless then you want to make sure they are drying out completely as it bone freaking dry, when its dry the plant is breathing in air if its always wet it cant breath, the exception to that rule is DWC which has air being run directly to the each buckets roots, in ebb and flow you want to have a fill time of about 30 mins every 4-6 hours of empty time


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## CVD1983

Lol... I'll post pic. I think I might be watering to much. 15mins/4 hours. 

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## CVD1983

I'm thinking my set up is a Top fed RDWC


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## Hushpuppy

does your rockwool cubes sit in the water? or are they suspended above the water so that excess water can drain away? This is real important. If the rockwool is  touching the solution, its going to "wick" up solution and not allow proper aeration in the cube.


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## CVD1983

I have water set about inch below at first and slowly lower over first 3 weeks... It's about 3 inches below now. Have checked roots, seedlings are in water but clone hasn't reached as yet.


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## Gooch

whenever i have used rockwool i always had it completely submerged into the medium, i used clay pebbles i have never used rockwool as the entire medium


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## The Hemp Goddess

I'm confused.  I thought that you ran this system before and got 20. oz from 2 plants with a 4 week veg and a 7 week flower?


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## Hushpuppy

That is basically the same setup that I use. The only difference being that my medium is coco coir/pearlite mix in mesh baskets which are suspended over a recirculating solution that gets top-fed to the medium periodically. I only feed/water (for 15min) 3x in 24hrs. 
I call it a "top-feeding RDWC"

Those RW cubes hold water very well. I would cut back the watering to 2-3x in 24hrs for your system. That will allow for better aeration in the RW cubes.
You probably aren't seeing a lot of root growth yet on the clone because of transplant shock combined with growing under HPS. I have read multiple times that "vegging" under HPS will leave the plants looking and acting a little sickly throughout and will be slow to veg but will take off some once it enters "flowering". I'm not busting yer chops for the lighting. I well know it takes time and money to get the proper equipment.


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## CVD1983

I have ran the exact same set up and yes I did get amazing results. This time I've grown from seed, and having much more issues. Not sure why. 
I've come home from camping today and noticed all of a sudden my seed plant has boomed. 
My clone hasn't moved or done anything. 
I raised the water a little before I left and it's done wonders for one them. I only raised it an inch, strange how one inch can change so much. I'm bout to switch to flower cause last time I nearly ran out of room.
Not sure if this is good idea for clone but I'm over trying to revive it.


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## CVD1983

Thanks for your help and advice. I'm really looking forward to getting the proper lighting and tools. Is quite expensive yes but sounds like it's well worth it!


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## The Hemp Goddess

How long has it been since you planted the seeds?  Seeds, unlike clones, should be sexually mature before you put them into flowering.  Putting a seed plant into flowering before it it is ready is actually counter-productive.  I would at least wait until I had alternating nodes.

As far as care, seed plants should not really vary much from clones.  Doing what you did last time should give you the same results.  Do not flower too early, though, or it will affect yield adversely.  Do you have a current pic of the seed plant?


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## grass hopper

The Hemp Goddess said:


> How long has it been since you planted the seeds? Seeds, unlike clones, should be sexually mature before you put them into flowering. Putting a seed plant into flowering before it it is ready is actually counter-productive. I would at least wait until I had alternating nodes.
> 
> As far as care, seed plants should not really vary much from clones. Doing what you did last time should give you the same results. Do not flower too early, though, or it will affect yield adversely. Do you have a current pic of the seed plant?


 
hi thg, off subject, just wanted to thank u for helping convince me not to fear added wattage. got a second tent set up and LOVE IT.:48:


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## CVD1983

Exactly 5 weeks 3 days since seed planted... 

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## Hushpuppy

They look like they are rocking and rolling  Have you flipped them yet? The clone looks to be very "Indica structured" and the seedling looks to be very "sativa dominant structure". It may take longer for one or the other of those plants to reach sexual maturity depending on the genetics. Are any of the branches alternating yet?


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## CVD1983

Yes flipped on 6/10/16... The lady on the right is the feminised seed, large fat leaves. 
 And left the clone. Much skinnier fan leaves. 
 I cleaned the tubs out before I flipped and swapped them over from there original pace. 
I will upload pic I took earlier today. Very happy with how there are growing. &#55357;&#56843; 

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## CVD1983

I'm just wondering if I should trim the lower leaves off now. There not getting much light as you can see. Thoughts??


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## The Hemp Goddess

Were the seed plants sexually mature and ready to be put into 12/12?


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## CVD1983

I really don't know about it being sexually mature. I did have it in veg for 5 weeks from seed. The nodes were all alternating. How do I tell?


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## Gooch

sexually mature means the nodes are staggered immature plants grow side by side branches


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## CVD1983

Oh ok. Yeah defly staggered! Thanx guys


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## CVD1983

Think theyre looking ok 

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## Hushpuppy

Those look like very happy plants. Taking off leaves can be tricky sometimes. I think now that you have them flipped, you can go in and take off a few of the leaves and smaller branches from each plant. Give them 2 days and then you can do it again. You can do this several times to remove the smaller "sucker branches" that will form below the canopy. These will suck energy from the top of the plant if they aren't removed, and will deliver worthless buds.

You can also remove some upper leaves to promote more branching but as yours already fill the space, I wouldn't do that now.


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## CVD1983

Week 5 of flowerIng stage, not sure on strain but researching forums I'm thinking another week and I'll begin to flush. 
I trimmed plants early in stages for extra air flow and light, I've given up on that idea now.  Had minor issue with plant stretching to close to light. Some bleached buds ontop near light and a little dried out leaves. Seems to be still healthy enough.
 Bit disappointed with how plants has grown compared to last but still fun. 
Here's a recent photo 

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## The Hemp Goddess

I wouldnt start flushing yet.  There are very very few strains out there that finish in 7-8 weeks.  You will be starving them for weeks.


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## Gooch

I dont flush, i personally think its a waste of time. The only thing flushing does is force the roots to pull from the leaves and buds to keep the roots happy.


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## Hushpuppy

I used to cut off nutes within the last week of flower but I have since quit doing that because I do a split harvest, taking the top 1/3 or /12 of the plant and leaving the lower parts in the light for another week or 2 to develop or ripen further. But I have found that I can't tell any difference in the quality of smoke from flushed and not flushed. I do cut back some as I see the plants not taking in as much during the last 2 weeks and I don't see the need of wasting nutes.


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## WeedHopper

Im with you HP....dont believe in starving my girls before Harvest.


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## sopappy

are you guys talking organic? I better check, i'm gonna feel like a dope.

wow, I really notice it when I don't flush or the flush is too late, 
harsh smoke, irritated throat, joints ash is black, yuck
flushed is smooth, tasty in, retained and out  light grey soft ashes
what am I doing wrong? do youse fade down your ppms over the grow?
I'm flushing for 1 -2 weeks and think yellow leaves will be a good sign.


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## Gooch

i think its all in your head, the difference between ashes going white or black is moisture, with my buds you have to let them sit out and dry for a couple hours before you smoke them,because when i cure them they stay 45% forever, no mold no nothing just moist bud. If you were to smoke it moist it would be harsh and black but let it sit out for a little bit and you are good. Its typically all won or lost in the cure


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## Hushpuppy

I have come to the conclusion that the key is in the dry/cure. If you get the right "speed" of drying(typically for 1 week) and then a slow cure for at least 2 weeks (I like a 4 week cure for best flavor) you allow the chlorophyll to break down. The other chemical processes also are able to occur that give us the richer flavors.

That said, some people like the rich "organic" flavors while others like a nice "clean flavor" smoke. I say go with what you like.


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> i think its all in your head, the difference between ashes going white or black is moisture, with my buds you have to let them sit out and dry for a couple hours before you smoke them,because when i cure them they stay 45% forever, no mold no nothing just moist bud. If you were to smoke it moist it would be harsh and black but let it sit out for a little bit and you are good. Its typically all won or lost in the cure



yes, the cure is yuge, well aware of that, a real treat for me to be able to wait a month, I've cut buds off a plant and thrown them on top of the fridge, I rarely get to wait for good cure, a month is rare
i will look up your cure method in your posts, I'm not thinking moist bud is good at all so I'm intrigued alright. 

but I'm griping about the flush here, you don't flush... must be your cure doesn't require a flush,  I wouldn't mind looking at that, 'member what thread you talked about it in?

Note to self: dammit I did it again, rarely and rare, same sentence


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## WeedHopper

Never flushed nor starved my girls beford Harvest. I feed them right up till i cut their throats,,,and watchem bleed Buds,,,yehaaaaaaa


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## Hushpuppy

Pappy: Sorry I cant remember where I was talking about that. I personally don't like crispy bud, or having to grind up hard nuggets so I have "developed" a dry/cure method that leaves my buds with a "leathery" texture. I like my buds to have that leathery texture as they burn slower in a bowl. I don't roll Js or stuff blunts like some do so I don't have to grind up the buds.

The way I dry mine is to put it in a cabinet that I built and connected a smaller blower/filter. I fill my drying cabinet and let the buds dry slowly by controlling the air within the cabinet. I have my timer set to run the blower for 7minutes, every 4-6hrs depending on how much bud I put in. This allows the moisture on the outside of the buds to evaporate away into the air bubble that is inside the cabinet. 

Once the air mass is saturated with moisture, the evaporation stops, and the buds are then able to equalize the moisture internally. Then the blower turns on and draws out the saturated air mass through the filter. Fresh air is pulled into the cabinet, then when the blower turns off and the evaporation/saturation begins again. once the buds get crispy feeling on the outside while still soft inside (typically takes about a week of drying) I move them to the large (3rd generation Tupperware) "glad containers" that will hold a little over 2oz each. 

Once I move them to the containers (which aren't as air tight as jars) and then burp(open up before a small fan for a 20sec airing out) them once a day for a week.  then every other day for a week, then if they are drying out enough, I move them to the jars and continue to burp them about once every 5 days. Once they reach the color and texture I want, I quit burping them. This is usually by the 4th-5th week depending on the atmosphere variables. 

It takes a lot of diligence to get them cured right. It also takes a good bit of experimentation with the drying/curing methods to get the right balance, but once you have learned to judge the variables, it gets easier to get that balanced dry/cure. You eventually learn to judge them by their color, odor, and texture. Once you get used to Judging these, you depend less on strict adherence to timing and just look and feel them to know where they are in the cure.


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## WeedHopper

Good posting.


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## Gooch

sopappy said:


> yes, the cure is yuge, well aware of that, a real treat for me to be able to wait a month, I've cut buds off a plant and thrown them on top of the fridge, I rarely get to wait for good cure, a month is rare
> i will look up your cure method in your posts, I'm not thinking moist bud is good at all so I'm intrigued alright.
> 
> but I'm griping about the flush here, you don't flush... must be your cure doesn't require a flush,  I wouldn't mind looking at that, 'member what thread you talked about it in?
> 
> Note to self: dammit I did it again, rarely and rare, same sentence



Technically no grow needs to be flushed, I use a process called bud washing where you cut them down and rinse them in buckets of water then i hang to drip dry, before moving them to a drying room set to 40% humidity for first couple days then i raise the humidity slowly over the week and after a week they snap off the stem and i toss em into jars once they hold a humidity of 50% or less in a jar. I have bud that is 1 year old still at 40% humidity i then have to leave it out for a couple hours to let it dry fully and smoke perfectly down to a white ash


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## WeedHopper

Never flushed my Tomato or Pepper Plants, ,,and they tasted awesome. Lol


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## grass hopper

sopappy said:


> yes, the cure is yuge, well aware of that, a real treat for me to be able to wait a month, I've cut buds off a plant and thrown them on top of the fridge, I rarely get to wait for good cure, a month is rare
> i will look up your cure method in your posts, I'm not thinking moist bud is good at all so I'm intrigued alright.
> 
> but I'm griping about the flush here, you don't flush... must be your cure doesn't require a flush, I wouldn't mind looking at that, 'member what thread you talked about it in?
> 
> Note to self: dammit I did it again, rarely and rare, same sentence


 
hey ya papp,  hp talked me into xtra large tupperware containers cure with some resistance from me. this was some of the best advice i ever got with mj.. i have a beautiful cabinet for curing but the lg tupperware does SUCH A NICE JOB, i hate to switch. i can now hold a cure within 1% as long as desirable. i could search and find his post to me if u would like..when hp talked about weed having a leathery feel, i thunk he was a little off. no, i was..


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## johnnybuds

grass hopper said:


> CVD, nothing against all other methods. i know they all work well...    what i know some about is dirt. ITS EASY!! start in rapid rooters for 1 week. Keep them wet. transplant into good soil, foxfarm based. into 5 by 5 inch pots +/-. food is in soil, no feeding for 3 to 5 weeks. a little nitrogen only if needed. transplant into 5 gal felt pots. feed heavy (flower foods) till harvest...   EASY..  Have read SO many issues with new growers. easy is good with new growers. much fewer issues. jmo
> 
> gooch is correct. should be in a solo size cup now. light up 18 inches or more. t5s for new borns is best...almost NO FOOD YET. Babies are soo fragile..



:yeahthat::icon_smile:


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Good posting.



Yep, I sure luck out with my help here


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Technically no grow needs to be flushed, I use a process called bud washing where you cut them down and rinse them in buckets of water then i hang to drip dry, before moving them to a drying room set to 40% humidity for first couple days then i raise the humidity slowly over the week and after a week they snap off the stem and i toss em into jars once they hold a humidity of 50% or less in a jar. I have bud that is 1 year old still at 40% humidity i then have to leave it out for a couple hours to let it dry fully and smoke perfectly down to a white ash



Sounds yummy but I don't have the funds to track the humidity like that, let alone add to or reduce it  but still intrigued.

You rinse the plant? I'm dumbfounded again, Gooch. BUT 
My girls are tiny (LEDs), If I could nute to finish, cut, trim, dip and hang, I'd be thrilled with the simplicity. I have an ill-conceived rotation 

Warm water? I'd worry about breaking precious stalks, do you save the water, drink it  ? 

Dipped as in ice cream cone in chocolate coating or
submersed and washing machined?


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## sopappy

grass hopper said:


> hey ya papp,  hp talked me into xtra large tupperware containers cure with some resistance from me. this was some of the best advice i ever got with mj.. i have a beautiful cabinet for curing but the lg tupperware does SUCH A NICE JOB, i hate to switch. i can now hold a cure within 1% as long as desirable. i could search and find his post to me if u would like..when hp talked about weed having a leathery feel, i thunk he was a little off. no, i was..



I rarely get anyway with search tool on this site and tedious to walk through all the posts. I hate putting that guy to work like that, but it's up there , thanks, HP. Respectfully...
I balk at the plastic, I like the glass casserole trays with plastic lids,
buds sit on glass but not tight sealed lid
Careful with blowing air over buds too, read that somewhere.

How do you measure to 1% ? I cure by feel, first dry feel to outside, lid goes back on, and check often, tapering off as days go by

his method is more foolproof, easy to let them dry too long or stay wet too long with my haphazard way but I manage,
it's the flush in hydro that's driving me nuts.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> I used to cut off nutes within the last week of flower but I have since quit doing that because I do a split harvest, taking the top 1/3 or /12 of the plant and leaving the lower parts in the light for another week or 2 to develop or ripen further. But I have found that I can't tell any difference in the quality of smoke from flushed and not flushed. I do cut back some as I see the plants not taking in as much during the last 2 weeks and I don't see the need of wasting nutes.



You guys must be getting your nute levels perfect. If I don't flush, I taste it.
Are your leaves all mostly yellow when you pull the plant?

Do you ever screw up and let them get too dry ( I leave lid off too long)
I've tried those humidity packets but don't like doing that.


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## sopappy

HOLY ****, I totally hi-jacked this thread, I thought I was in my grow thread whining.
SO SORRY CVD1983, outrageous, I should delete mine but would be rude to the lads.
Again, my apologies, back to your grow, back to my hole


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## WeedHopper

:rofl: he is high again.


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## Hushpuppy

No problem Pappy  I doubt CVD minds as long as the conversation stays interesting. 

I think the hardest thing for new growers is getting the understanding that there are multiple methods for growing MJ that all work in the right conditions. And it very much depends on your local environment and atmosphere, and access to mediums and nutes. The challenge is to find those methods that work best for your individual needs and conditions.

As for flushing? The key to flushing is that you are removing all of the nutrients from the plant's access and are forcing it to use up the elements that are already within the plant. I typically harvest totally green plants with very little yellowing off. But I also(typically) cut back on nutes as I see the plants slowing down in the last 7-10 days. I don't want to starve them if I haven't timed the harvest exactly right but the longer you grow (and pay good attention to your plants) the better you will get at judging them.

I think the key to the flavor lies in the dry/cure (and in the strain). I have some plants that smoke amazingly smooth and others that are more harsh and they were grown, dried, and cured the same way. But I have also seen that a "just right" dry/cure (generally for me, 1wk drying, 4wks curing) yields the best taste to me. 

However, everyone's tastes are a little different. Some of my bud tastes just like mushrooms to me while the same flowers taste sweet to my buddy. And I can taste lemon and pineapple in my Pineapple Chunk but my buddy can only taste sweet, spicy, and sandalwood. its kind of weird.

I know others who like a real "clean" tasting smoke while others like a very "earthy", "organic" flavor smoke. I say try different methods (only one or two changes per grow, not done in the middle of a grow) and find what you like.


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> :rofl: he is high again.



First time I've had a 6 week cure


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## grass hopper

sopappy said:


> I rarely get anyway with search tool on this site and tedious to walk through all the posts. I hate putting that guy to work like that, but it's up there , thanks, HP. Respectfully...
> I balk at the plastic, I like the glass casserole trays with plastic lids,
> buds sit on glass but not tight sealed lid
> Careful with blowing air over buds too, read that somewhere.
> 
> How do you measure to 1% ? I cure by feel, first dry feel to outside, lid goes back on, and check often, tapering off as days go by
> 
> his method is more foolproof, easy to let them dry too long or stay wet too long with my haphazard way but I manage,
> it's the flush in hydro that's driving me nuts.


 
yea, i used to go by feel and glass air-tites. no more. hp talked me into xtra large tupperwares. LARGER OPENINGS. only for 2 or 3 weeks. once i get into the 63%rh, i seal in lg glass and open little. i hang buds until they feel a little dry on the outside and then trim them off and in they go to tupperware. put in ph meter and burp. let sit 1 1/2 days or so. the rh is usually too high. in the 80% range but the buds are equalizing. the moisture is similar on the out and inside!! (leathery feel). i will leave cover off for an hour or two, mixing top to bottom a couple times. recover, burp and retest in a day or so. looking to get to 70%rh equally thru out bud. then open tware for a minute or two with fan blowing out as much air as possible. reseal, burp and usually bring ph down a point(1%) each day or every other day until i get to 63% rh. long term jar time. i get better smells, no more hay smells. very smooth smoke and NEVER kill the cure. cure dies once it been placed in a plastic bag for a day or two. papp, hp spent hours trying to get me to try this. when i finally tried it, i LOVE it. probably the thing i do best with mj..i searched for the tread from a year or 2 ago. could not find..


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## Gooch

sopappy here is all you need to do to gain success in harvesting sans flushing. 
I cut each branch off, rip off all the fan leaves and hang it in a well ventilated area with fresh air being moved around(not blowing it on the plant). Keep the humidity between 45-50% for 7 days after 7 days the buds will snap off the branch and the sugar leaves will be brittle enough to flick off and save, then throw them into a jar and seal it. Burp the jars once a day for a week then once a week and you will have perfectly cured bud


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> sopappy here is all you need to do to gain success in harvesting sans flushing.
> I cut each branch off, rip off all the fan leaves and hang it in a well ventilated area with fresh air being moved around(not blowing it on the plant). Keep the humidity between 45-50% for 7 days after 7 days the buds will snap off the branch
> 
> after 7 days hanging, mine would have turned to dust. I find after a day or two, I feel outer dry and begin the lid on / lid off ritual
> 
> and the sugar leaves will be brittle enough to flick off and save,
> 
> now this is neat, you don't trim the colas, you just break off the tips of the leaves that stick out of the cola? different, I'd think it faster to cut them but i know my colas don't look like yours
> 
> then throw them into a jar and seal it. Burp the jars once a day for a week then once a week and you will have perfectly cured bud



I didn't read anything that made me think you wouldn't need to flush.
My girls rarely have much in the way of yellow leaves at harvest, still full of nutes, I haven't mastered this ramp thing yet.

I think I'd still taste the nutes. I know I have one chap who would and I hear about it every time I screw up and out of time to flush


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## Hushpuppy

Some people like a real "clean" taste to their smoke. growing with synthetic nutes and flushing will achieve that. I used to have one particular guy that used my stuff and he liked it with no flavors to it. However the rest of my patients said my smoke was missing something. When I switched my methods to create more of a "natural, organic" flavor, they all raved over it. Folks with different likes and tastes can make it challenging to grow what everyone likes.


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## grass hopper

i was cleaning and found MOST OF pups drying/ curing method which i had PRINTED OUT a couple years ago and have grown so fond of..  the paper is a little messy but gonna try and attach it...   I do use a rh meter in each tub.. once i get below 65%, i go to long term storage in 5 liter bormioli rocco jars. drying/ curing is so easy and consistant using hushpuppys method.. 

View attachment drying-curing.pdf


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## Gooch

ok here isa chemistry lesson from an idiot, when you feed a plant nutrients the plant does not i repeat does not store those nutirents in the leaves or the bud. The plant uses these nutrients as fuel for systems to create the leaves and buds. you do not every need to flush a plant unless you see a deficiency or you burned it. All flushing does is pull from the leaves and buds, yes and buds to feed the root system. how is it beneficial to remove sugars from the buds? i swear one day this ** of flushing will be gone soon


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## grass hopper

interesting.. thanks!


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## Hushpuppy

Gooch you sound like you may be passionate about flushing versus not flushing


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## Gooch

Hushpuppy said:


> Gooch you sound like you may be passionate about flushing versus not flushing


well there are a bunch of old ways of thinking i am tired of hearing since there is no basis for facts behind it, I also help and mentor many new growers and constantly have to explain why you dont need to flush cause 1 google and 1million people say you have to lol


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## Kraven

Gooch said:


> well there are a bunch of old ways of thinking i am tired of hearing since there is no basis for facts behind it, I also help and mentor many new growers and constantly have to explain why you dont need to flush cause 1 google and 1million people say you have to lol




Very true, it's such a hard myth to debunk. No fruit or vegetable I know in existence do you starve it the final 2 weeks of its life....sadly that's when the girls bulk and everyone who flushes is most definitely loosing weight and a full ripening. These myths get started simply because people don't realize if you apply good grow technique steeped in knowledge all you really have to do is feed it correctly, give it enough light and support and really there is no need to touch it other than some productive pruning in the beginning to focus the plants energy on bud production. Sadly these are also the people who will never quite reach their full potential as growers, they may pull off good grows....it's a weed and that happens in fairly decent conditions. But to crush it time after time takes knowledge that is backed up with hard science. I really wish people would think hard before telling new impressionable growers that a flush is necessary if the plant is grown correctly. Peace.


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## WeedHopper

Good posting my friend. I also think its total crap. My fruits and vegetables dont taste bad because they get feed before harvest. My weed has never tasted different because i flushed or starved it,,,and i have treid it twice along time ago and it made no freaking diffrence,,and i was running the same strain for along time.


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## grass hopper

been waiting 10 to 12 weeks before harvest as i know how important the last couple of weeks are. also i almost never get more than 5 to 10% amber with the many strains i have grown. i remember how many millions of gallons they must have sold of molasses to improve taste of bud in the final weeks of growing. i also read (for what thats worth), that if u add vanilla extract to your water in the last few days of watering, u can taste it while smoking. also true with other flavors. i don't see molasses selling anywhere near what it used to sell, if at all and dont know if any of its true??? hmm


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## Gooch

actually molasses doesnt affect the taste at all, i mean literally at all, what it is doing is providing sugars for the roots. See in the last weeks of flowering the plant no longer sends sugars to feed the root system cause it knows its almost over and wants to focus all the energy from photosynthesis on the flowers, so by adding in molasses in the last couple weeks you keep the plants producing and shipping sugars to the flowers till the end, because the roots are now getting their energy. and adding flavors will not make the cannabis taste like that flavor. The plant uses the various nutrients and biostimulants to power other systems that then create the plant. and concentrated flavor is not one of them. Although post cure you can spray some food grade flavor concentrates on the buds to smell and taste like that


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## WeedHopper

:yeahthat:


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## grass hopper

thanks! i always thought it had to do with flavor. guess i need to read more, grow less. lol.. do many people still use molasses anymore?? i never seem to hear about it..  whats the flavor, smell spray all about?? have u guys tried it?? thanks!!


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## Gooch

I bought some to try on my strawberry kush vape, it was strawberry flavor, i heard you could spray it so i sprayed 1 bud and then put that bud in the jar and let it enfuse onto the others, so it was more just aromatic but it did not make it burn weird or taste bad so, i bought it to use in my vape juice with my shatter, but i dont think i added enough when i tried it but it was fine smooth and fresh
here is the stuff


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## Gooch

if you want to understand better how soil and microbes work together watch this video

and this video explains better the use of biostimulants including molasses click here


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## grass hopper

thanks for posting that gooch. i have watched a couple of his lectures before but not that one. he spoke alot about kelp which i feed now but also the 2:5 ratio of kelp and humic acid. 2 parts kelp to 5 parts humic acid. have u tried this?? also where or how would u add humic acid??.....    also, i wanna try that blueberry spray.


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## Gooch

humic acid and kelp would be added with your feeding and or watering cycle, you can pick each up at almost any hydro store, the RAW NPK humic acid is in granular form as are all of their products, and yes i use 5-2 ratio of both humic and kelp and fulvic and kelp fulvic being the smaller molecule form of humic but with more iron, and you use the fulvic and kelp mix to spray on vegging plant once every 2-3 weeks and it will break it vertical growth and promote horizontal growth


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## Gooch

also they are starting a new series beginning on the 17th they added just q & a, and maximizing yields. you should sign up for the live classes i know il be there 
you can sign up here


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## grass hopper

thanks!


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