# Possible stretching problem. Need knowledge from experienced growers



## ljpowner (Nov 25, 2014)

First off. I'll introduce myself. I'm ljpower a full time college student who has recently got a pation to grow my own cannabis. I have started 6 plants and from seeds I got out off my bud. I don't know the genetics. I had started cultivation with 1 125watt hydrofarm grow bulb. 6400k spectrum. 20 on 4 off. I had started this light to grow 6 plants. They are on their 3rd week. They are taller but very thin stalked. And I read this was because light distance. I originally started with the light 16in away. It is a cfl. I read that that was way too far. So now I have moved them to about 5 inch's away from the light and added another bulb. I have a little desktop fan applying a breeze to strengthen stalks. I've also tied a couple of the plants up because they were at an extreme lean. Is there anything I need to do to help recover the strength from the plants? [ 

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## Rosebud (Nov 25, 2014)

Hi LJ, welcome.  You have lots of stretch. Keep your lights on 24/7 and get the light closer. When you transplant bury those stems up to the leaves.  I have never grown with CFL's.

Those cups need drainage holes, and slipped into another opaque cup. Roots don't like the light.  Get some keg cups and replant.

What soil are you in?


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## ljpowner (Nov 25, 2014)

I'm worried if I move the light closer that the plants will horde towards it and may neglect a few and I don't want to neglect any. This is my complete first time growing and I'm trying for 3 females. So how much farther down should I drop the lights? And also what size pots should they be going into? I don't have any on hand currently because im not sure what size they need and I'm in fear of that I'll hurt them because I've already damaged one stem while tieing one up. More info please? Its greatly appreciated. And I'm currently using miracle grow because of not being able to find organic. But I have found organic miracle grow on amazing and I'm ordering 64 quarts of it.


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## zem (Nov 25, 2014)

first of all, skip that miracle grow order ahd get something suitable to grow weed, which is very differentt from MG. get your lights to about 2" from your plants, put some white walls like cardboard or something to reflect the light being spilled sideways, and of course, you need opaque pots. the size of pots depends on how much you want to grow it, but i recommend it being 10liters or more. theres a learning curve you will go through, the best advice i could give you now is to listen to advice on MP from all the experienced growers, that will give you the most chances of getting it right, good luck


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## ljpowner (Nov 25, 2014)

What soil should I get for growing? I've seen some that are ridiculously expensive. I've got nutes already. I've got a 20-20-15 a 30-10-10 and a 5-10-5 for the different stages. I haven't been using any because of the nutes in MG. I understand I'll need 3 gallon pots for the final flower stage because of roots. I'm attempting a 3-4month grow. I'm going to move them into red solo cups tonight with holes in the corners of the bottom for draining. And plant them down lower to where they are about 2in above soil. And move the lights up. So what will I need for soil wise that isn't 30 dollars per  bag(with unreasonably small size)?


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## MR1 (Nov 25, 2014)

Hang your lights horizontally, you will increase your light output, your lights will also last longer with less heat in the ballast.


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## Rosebud (Nov 25, 2014)

With those nutes and a prenuted MG, you are going to sink this grow.

Get a small package of fox farm ocean forest and you won't need any of those too strong nutes you have.


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## ljpowner (Nov 25, 2014)

My real debate is now. Do I restart. And rebuild my grow stand design to use horizontal lights? I haven't really lost much resources.


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## Rosebud (Nov 25, 2014)

If your talking bag seed then yes, you could start over, or you could make some changes and see what happens. You are learning a lot right now.


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## ljpowner (Nov 25, 2014)

I feel as if I started fresh. Buy foxfarm. Hang the lights horizontal and keep 2in away from top of the leaves and in close the grow station with the reflective material I would be on schedule and have a better harvest. Rather than try to salvage an overstretched MG mess up. I really appreciate this guys. I'll keep everyone posted on how I'm doing. Thanks again


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## Rosebud (Nov 25, 2014)

I agree.  Mojo for the setup.  The best reflective material is flat white paint. True.


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## ljpowner (Nov 25, 2014)

Update. My baby's are gone. Giving back to the earth. Starting again soon. Thanks again


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## Dman1234 (Nov 25, 2014)

ljpowner said:


> Update. My baby's are gone. Giving back to the earth. Starting again soon. Thanks again



Probably for the best, they were way way too stretched, next time come for help a little sooner and the people here will get you staightened out.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 26, 2014)

Dman is right--this is an extremely difficult hobby to go into blind.  I recommend doing a bunch of reading before you pop seeds again so that you know the basics--things like the amount and types of light you need, ventilation, good soil, mixtures, nutes you need (those you have sound awfully strong), the best environment to grow in (temps, RH, etc),  and how to set a grow space up.  Reading up before hand would have told you that MG is not good, CFLs need to be really close, foil is a poor reflector of light, and the need for opaque pots.  There really is a lot to growing indoors and cannabis has some very specific wants and demands.  This is about a 4 month process and a myriad of things can go wrong.  I hate to be the one to tell you, but IMO, getting the seedlings going is one of the easiest parts of growing--it is going to get more difficult from there on out.  The more you know and are able to put it in practice, the better your chances for a successful grow.


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## ljpowner (Dec 20, 2014)

Update! New set up. Took all of your advice and got rid of the old! I put reflective mylar up to reflect my cfls. I hung my cfls horizontal to maximize light. I just got done planting my seeds from Herbie's. Both are femenized money maker strain. I ditched the MG soil and bought 2 bags of Fox Farm Ocean Crest. Made a little irrigation system to catch the run off from me watering them. Obviously got real pots this time. They're in 1 gallon pots. I think I'm headed in the best direction. I also have the lights only 4 inches away. And both have a light! Thank you all so much for the help. Good vibes my new bud-dies. [emoji12]  everyone have a happy holiday's! 

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## Dman1234 (Dec 21, 2014)

Your on your way, congrats, not to be a downer but you will need good ventalation and a better light as well as a filter and an enclosed space to flower properly. 

You can back those lights off until u get some growth.

Good job, Happy holidays to u too.


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## ljpowner (Dec 21, 2014)

I'm way too afraid to use any metal HID or HPS... So I'm gonna attempt to stick with my 125w 6400k cfl. And I have too ventilation. There is about a 4 in gap on the top where I have a desk fan pointed down that kicks on every 30mins. and I have a different light for flowering.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 21, 2014)

Spounds like you are on the right track.  However, why in the world would you be afraid of using HID lighting?  CFLs of like wattage put out more heat and less usable light.  For example, your CFLs are using 250 watts and probably putting out around 15,000 lumens.  A 250W HPS will put out 25,000-28,000 lumens, produce less heat, and can be housed in an air coolable hood that makes cooling quite easy--that is twice as much usable light for the same electrical usage.  It matter not whether you are using 250W of CFL or 250W of HPS, you are using 250W....and the CFLs are hotter and produce less light than the HPS.

Your CFLs are larger so while the plants are young, you are going to want to start with the light further than 2" and work your way down.  One light would probably be better while they are small.  You will find that your ventilation set up is probably going to need some work.  You actually do need to exhaust hot "used" air out of the space and bring in new fresh air.  Right now you are mostly just moving the air around and not bringing in fresh air.  While this is not critical while they are so small, later it will be.  You need adequate ventilation for both heat control and supplying a continual supply of fresh air to the plants for proper photosynthesis.  Also, like Dman mentioned, you are going to need a light tight space for flowering.  What light do you plan on using for flowering?  Your 2 125W CFL lights are only going to adequately cover a space about 5 sq ft or a space 3' x 20".  If your space is bigger than that, you will be underlit.  Also you will need more light for flowering--40% more.  

Try and get your mylar hung perfectly smooth with no wrinkles.  Wrinkles reduce the reflective ability quite a bit.


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## ljpowner (Dec 21, 2014)

They're about 5-6 inches away from top of soil for starting location. I figured that would be good enough so that they wouldn't be too close


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 22, 2014)

Watch them carefully and check on them regularly to make sure that the light is not going to burn them.  Do you have an oscillating fan blowing on the plants?

Why are you afraid of HID?  The large wattage CFLs are more of a fire hazard as they are hotter.


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## ljpowner (Dec 22, 2014)

I'm afraid of HIDs because I have no knowledge of them... I know they are more expensive. And I know they need a ballast for powering... How many HIDs would I need for a 2 plant grow? And I have a fan directly level with the top of the pots blowing across them every 30 minutes as well, 30 on 30 off


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## ljpowner (Dec 22, 2014)

I have looked around and found this kit 
[ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B009NTI16Y/ref=mp_s_a_1_3?qid=1419274260&sr=8-3&dpPl=1&dpID=516DjqwDmuL&ref=plSrch&pi=AC_SY200_QL40[/ame]
Can you tell me if its good enough? I was going to use the MH for veg and HPS for flower? I'm sorry I have so many questions but I want to get it right so I can keep doing it.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 22, 2014)

ljpowner said:


> I'm afraid of HIDs because I have no knowledge of them... I know they are more expensive. And I know they need a ballast for powering... How many HIDs would I need for a 2 plant grow? And I have a fan directly level with the top of the pots blowing across them every 30 minutes as well, 30 on 30 off



That is not unusual.  I have found a lot of new growers are somewhat afraid of them because they are not familiar with them or have been told stories. HID is a general term that stands for high intensity discharge and encompasses several different types of light, not all of them good for growing.  Digital ballasts will run both MH (metal halide) and HPS (high pressure sodium).  The MH, in the blue spectrum of light around 6500K is better for vegging and the HPS, in the red spectrum and around 2500K is better for flowering.  Most digital ballasts come with both type  bulbs.  An air coolable hood or cool tube works a lot better than batwing reflectors as they are much easier to cool.  

Lighting needs are figured by the number of sq ft you have in a space rather than the number of plants.  I am thinking that a 250W is going to cost as much as a 400W, so you might want to look at a dimmable 400W.  This will give you the ability to lower the wattage while the plants are small or if they are in a smaller space.  But you still have the option of going bigger.  I cannot get your link to work, but I did find this light, which would probably be great for you:  [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK400CT24E-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B00547I5I8/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1419276064&sr=8-7&keywords=400w+hps[/ame]  A 250W is only going to adequately cover about 5 sq ft.  A 400W will cover about 9 sq ft, but you can dim it if you do not need that much light--it has setting to run at 50%, 75% and full power.  The one I linked also comes with both bulbs and some other goodies like hangers.

You will need a proper ventilation set up in the near future.  Unfortunately, this will be more money.  This growing thing is unfortunately not really a hobby you can do properly on a shoestring budget.


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## ljpowner (Dec 22, 2014)

Okay. Now I see this set has a cooling tube. So I need a fan for that? And I've got a way for good ventilation now. I've got sever osolating fans available for use. And say if I get this set (which is highly likely) how far to hang away from plants?


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## ljpowner (Dec 22, 2014)

Update. Got a bigger fan  

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## ljpowner (Dec 23, 2014)

I've decided in going with this one because I have prime . [ame]http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B005DO30MI/ref=s9_simh_gw_d0_g86_i2?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=mobile-1&pf_rd_r=0RBGXR7GG4ADT12MQGKN&pf_rd_t=36701&pf_rd_p=2007438502&pf_rd_i=mobile[/ame]


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 23, 2014)

Still can't get the link to work.  What did you buy?


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## ljpowner (Dec 23, 2014)

http://tinyurl.com/lyzhc5s 
I haven't bought it yet but its a 400 watt system with all the same things as the other. I put a tiny url for you to use to see it.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 24, 2014)

The one in the last link looks to be a bat-wing reflector, so it does not have all the same things as the one I linked.  *Do NOT get the bat-wing reflector*--it is way too hard to cool.  As I mentioned before, you really need some kind of air coolable hood or a cool tube to be able to cool things efficiently.   Check out this set-up again  It is more, but not that much and you really do need the cool tube.  The difference is less than dinner at Micky Ds for the family.  [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK400CT24E-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B00547I5I8/[/ame]


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## ljpowner (Dec 24, 2014)

Now since I HAVE to have a cooling tube, does that mean I need a 6inch ducting fan?


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 24, 2014)

Yes you will need an exhaust fan to pull the heated and CO2 depleted air out of your grow space. You need this regardless of what type of lights that you use. having a fan blowing the air around within the grow space only serves to cool off the plants, make them move some so that their branches will strengthen, and move fresh air to them ffor breathing. But without a fan to pull the old air out and fresh air in, the plants will over heat and suffocate, which will at best reduce your harvest to minimum, and at worst, kill the plants.


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## ljpowner (Dec 24, 2014)

Went ahead and bought it and a 6inch ducting fan. Hope this works


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## ncmga (Dec 24, 2014)

Hmmmmmmm. Well well well well well. When I started , I did a lot of research and started with OTT lites super brite T 10. I then used PHC(plant health care) from Gardeners Supply in Vermont that produces thick healthy seedlings. If done correctly will make plants @ 6-7 ins with a main stem the thickness of a ciggaret in 2 weeks time. The OTT Lites (sorry they don't make anymore) were full spectrum lights with the added magnetic radiation shield on it and out produced any light I have seen to date. It had a 33,000 hr rating and produced by the background lighting for Walt Disney animation. I think Mr. Ott may have passed on but the lights now are garbage. The ones I bought in 97 stayed alive till 2008! I just recently purchased on experiment the SK450 super grow led. I heard a lot about it and sacrificed to get it. It seems very low in start compared to the Ott. I have started some VISC Mikado, very hardy and crystaly will let u all know how do. Ben down for 3 yrs. Back on block in DC. Peeps are anxious for my kind and a waiting list in tow. 
Keep lights close and spray with 1 tsp fulvic / qt water. Usually I use as well  Peru sea bird guanos @ 1 tsp raw /gallon h2o and stand back. Psg is very alkaline xo use with caution. Time to go b back soon.
Peace 
Atomic Dog


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 26, 2014)

You need an exhaust fan regardless of the type of light you are running.  An exhaust fan is for far more than removing heat from your space.  Your plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on for proper photosynthesis and a decent exhaust fan is needed to maintain negative pressure in your space so that odors do not escape.  I am hoping that you didn't buy a duct _booster_ fan?  These do not work well and will not do the job, as they are not meant to be stand alone fans, but just to assist larger fans on long ducting runs.

I used OTT light way back when, but truly, they do not hold a candle to the HPS.  Right now and with growers on a budget, a HPS is still the best way to go.  You are going to get far more lumens per watt and they just penetrate further than any fluoro made.  

Unfortunately, this is not a hobby that you can really do on a  shoestring.  Cannabis is a high energy plant and has quite specific  needs and wants.  There really is a reason that cannabis is not cheap.


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## ljpowner (Dec 26, 2014)

I'm not trying to be rude. I appreciate the help. But this is all becoming so inconsistent, its confusing. Now I did by the highest rated booster fan I could see. It attaches directly to the cooling tube. I got this fan SPECIFICALLY for the cooling tube. Not the exhaust for the set up so I imagine I'm fine. This is the fan I got for the tube.
http://tinyurl.com/ductfan
Now if there is a better one that I need. Please link it asap. I will cancel my order and reorder. But after reading what this is used for and the comments. I have no doubt that this will work.


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## MR1 (Dec 26, 2014)

Ljpowner, smoke a j and watch this video , it will help you understand what is involved in setting up a grow room.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPm-Ni8VVz0&list=PLU7kTTChjkYOc2eqm9Ac34cMAjvh2EAf8


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## ljpowner (Dec 26, 2014)

Watched it. Made a hell of a lot of sense. I'm confident In my choice. Thanks MR1. I'm okay for the moment. I think I'll do fine on my first grow


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## MR1 (Dec 26, 2014)

Just remember , none of the fans they use are duct fans , they use fans designed for grow room ventilation.


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## ljpowner (Dec 26, 2014)

Right I seen that. I've got a 6in duct fan that directly connects to my cooling tube ATM. I'll be okay. My next purchase is one of those grow tints. But that will be a little later. But thanks again. I'll comment if I run into problems but right now everything is going as planned. Still using my cfls. Cause my MH and HPS are in the mail. But my little girls have there first true leaves and are looking happy as a clam. Thanks all. Happy holidays. And y'all stay awesome.


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## MR1 (Dec 26, 2014)

Sounds good.


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## ljpowner (Jan 2, 2015)

Update:
Using my new system. Got my MH in for Veg.
Cooling going great. Plant is loving the new light.
Pretty happy


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## ljpowner (Jan 13, 2015)

Hey all. Leaves are withering. Only bottom ones. Would like a little help. Nuted yesterday 20 20 15 just for an overall base. 

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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 13, 2015)

All the new growth looks fine I'm going with nutes spilled on bottom leaf. If plants done with it Trim it off. I'm a noob that's just my noob response. Some of the Guru should be by soon


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## Dman1234 (Jan 13, 2015)

It looks like old damage, like a leaf that got stuck in the soil while watering awhile ago, jmo, since its the bottom leaves just remove them and watch it too be sure and it will only aid in air circulation anyways.


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## ljpowner (Jan 13, 2015)

Well there are 2 more leaves at the bottom that are very cracky and frail. Should i just pluck em?


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## Dman1234 (Jan 13, 2015)

Looking at your pic yes, remove them, it really isnt necessary, but if it makes you feel better it wont hurt, lower leaves on a plant like yours get wet and hit with nutes and can do that. It shows it is getting good light so remove them if you want. They arent going to recover.


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## ljpowner (Jan 13, 2015)

Alright. Is there anything i should be watching for?


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## ljpowner (Jan 14, 2015)

So i think its moving up my plant and i need help asap... any knowledge to save her...? 

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## Hushpuppy (Jan 15, 2015)

It does appear to be moving up the plant. Have you checked the pH of the medium?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 15, 2015)

What kind of soil are they in and what have you been feeding them?


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## ljpowner (Jan 15, 2015)

Soil is fox farm ocean crest.
I fed the a 20 20 15 once and flushed next day to remove  the nutes.  And i have not measure ph of soils. Next thing ill do


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