# Maximize Yield, Scrog or regular



## New_2_Chronic (Aug 6, 2008)

I have 12 plants, One I can get a bunch more clones off of. I could have about 20 plants in a 4X4 area if i wanted to... so my question:

Im looking for yield, I am only doing one grow per year if possible so I need to get all I can.

Would Scrog, SOG for 20 plants about 2 ft high yield more than if i let these 12 plants get to theier full size? Lighting is 600 watt HPS.

Input?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 6, 2008)

I have never done sog or scrog, however, IMO a 4x4 space is not enough room to let 12 plants "get to their full size" unless they are a strain that stays very small.  You would probably have no trouble filling up a 4x4 space with 4 full size plants.


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## New_2_Chronic (Aug 6, 2008)

hmmm... thats not what Ive been told and read... I was told that you need 1X1 for each plant....

I have 16 square FT, so that tells me that I should be able to have a max of 16 plants right? I Have about 6.5 ft vertical, so if i keep them to 1X1 i should be able to grow that way....

But the questions is,,, do you get a better yield using a screen and keeping them low?> or do you get more by letting the plant go vertical?


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## massproducer (Aug 6, 2008)

A Scrog and a SOG are totally different methods.  While a SOG works great with many small plants, a Scrog is the exact opposite.  A scrog works best with big mature plants, that have a tendency to branch out.  A Sog on the other hand works best with single cola dominate plants.

Basically what I am saying is that a Scrog is not just a SOG with a screen, the actual method is totally different.  Scrog is more like LST, but you take it one step farther by adding a screen


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 6, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> hmmm... thats not what Ive been told and read... I was told that you need 1X1 for each plant....



While you can certainly put 1 plant per sq ft, this is far from what is considered "full size" for a mj plant.  This is good spacing if you want to grow single cola plants with little or no side branching.  Check out Growdude's WW grow--he grew some monster single cola plants--7 clones in 10 sq ft with 2 400Ws and a short veg time (as I recall).


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## Barrelhse (Aug 6, 2008)

I do 16-18 in a 4x4 under 1000hps, but mine are in a perpetual situation so small plants replace large every couple of weeks. You could get a great yield by taking clones and flowering the 12 plants while vegging the clones. The plants in flower should be pruned clean to at least 3 nodes, clean out stuff in the middle and skimpy leaves;this should get the energy where it's used efficiently. After 3 or 4 weeks you can put the clones in 12/12 to start their stretch. Stick them wherever they'll go while they're small and favor them when the big ones are gone. This will add 4 wks to your grow, while giving you two nice crops in 12 wks.


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## New_2_Chronic (Aug 6, 2008)

That sounds like a great idea... I really like it unfortunately I only have a single growing area so it has to be veg all, then flower, hence the only wanting to grow once a year.

I understand the difference in scog and SCROG so I guess the question is,,, Since I know im going to have some males...I am estimating having eight good plant to flower. I want to get the MOST I can out of those eight plants, if i get that lucky. Or i could get up to 20 by cloning my largest plant a few times.

If I want to do a 4 week veg for the new ones and flower 4 weeks from now how can I get the most quality bud I can. 

At the rate I smoike 1-3 (If i can get more great) pounds should do me for a year. so knowing that, what way should I go...


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## docfishwrinkle (Aug 6, 2008)

scrog


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## massproducer (Aug 7, 2008)

what strain are you growing because IMHO, that will also way heavily on the method that will maximize your grow.


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## GreenThumbBlackFinger (Aug 7, 2008)

why do you only want to do one grow per year? isnt it going to be harsh smoking 9 month old nuggets? i also have one growing space so i only grow enough to keep me stocked up until the next harvest to keep it fresh. just curious  if you know a way to store it for long periods of time without it getting nasty let me know


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## Hick (Aug 7, 2008)

> isnt it going to be harsh smoking 9 month old nuggets?


Properly cured and stored buds, just get better with time..


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 7, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> Properly cured and stored buds, just get better with time..


thats right.. like fine wine they say..


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 7, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> At the rate I smoike 1-3 (If i can get more great) pounds should do me for a year. so knowing that, what way should I go...



One to three pounds?  I'm sorry, but, IMO, there is just no way that you are going to harvest 1-3 lbs in the space you have with a 600W on your first grow.  As kind of a guideline, you can expect .5 grams for every watt of light, but other conditions have to be optimum.  I doubt that you will get .5 on your first grow.  So we are talking about (maybe) 300 grams or just slightly over 10 ozs.


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## New_2_Chronic (Aug 7, 2008)

So Hemp, what your saying is I can grow 12, 3-4 ft plants, and will be lucky to harvest just one ounce per plant:holysheep: ? 

All other growing conditions are optimal, lighting, exaust, feedings,,,,,


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 7, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> So Hemp, what your saying is I can grow 12, 3-4 ft plants, and will be lucky to harvest just one ounce per plant:holysheep: ?
> 
> All other growing conditions are optimal, lighting, exaust, feedings,,,,,



Actually, what I am saying is that the number of plants has far less to do with final yield than the number of watts you have.   You can expect to harvest approx .5 grams (or less as a new grower) per watt of light.  Period.  Experienced growers who optimize their conditions can get more.  Puffin Afatty has a plant he keeps revegging and can get 1 gram per watt, but he flowers for 17 weeks--twice the normal flowering time, so I would expect twice the yield.  I think that Growdude got about 3/4 g per watt, but these are experienced growers.

Although I can understand wanting to only grow one crop a year, I just don't think it isn't going to happen with the space and lighting you have (well or unless you cut WAY back on your consumption ).  You need to have realistic expectations.  I would suggest that you concentrate less on yield and more on learning to grow--that is my best suggestion to increase your yield.  The more you know about growing and providing the optimum growing conditions, the higher your yield will be.


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## New_2_Chronic (Aug 7, 2008)

hmmm,,, all very interesting, but looking at this from a new grower standpoint....

If the actual yield has more to do with Watts of lighting, then growing multiple plants seems useless. I would think growing one plant and getting 300 grams would be easier than growing 12 and getting the same amount....make sense?

Let me see if i understand this right.... It does not matter how many plants i put under the light because there is a theoritical maximum of 1 gram per watt...

wish i would of known this before i wasted all those seeds i just bought by planting them...


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## Growdude (Aug 7, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> hmmm,,, all very interesting, but looking at this from a new grower standpoint....
> 
> If the actual yield has more to do with Watts of lighting, then growing multiple plants seems useless. I would think growing one plant and getting 300 grams would be easier than growing 12 and getting the same amount....make sense?
> 
> ...


 
I think its a little of both, the room can only be so big depending on the watts you have, you can only get so many plants in the room, depending on how they are grown one plant or 12 plants can fill that room.

One vegged a very long time or 12 vegged a very short time.

If you over vegg and the plants become to big your yeild will suffer because the plants are too crowded.

Overgrowing plants is the most common begginers mistake.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 7, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> hmmm,,, all very interesting, but looking at this from a new grower standpoint....
> 
> If the actual yield has more to do with Watts of lighting, then growing multiple plants seems useless. I would think growing one plant and getting 300 grams would be easier than growing 12 and getting the same amount....make sense?
> 
> ...



All this is within reason of course--don't get into the rediculous.  What I am saying is that you would probably get about the same yield with 4 large plants or 12 small plants.

And as far as not knowing this...this has been said many many times before on this forum.  There are multiple factors that influence yield, but the biggest factors, IMO, are strain and lighting.  While vegging time influences the yield, it also limits the number of plants you can put into a given space without overcrowding.  So, you couldn't really veg your plants for 2 months or so letting them get 3-4 feet and not expect them to be overcrowded in 16 sq ft unless they have been trimmed to single cola plants.  If you look at yield info on most seed banks, yield is generally given in grams per sq m.  I have never seen yields per plant.  There are just too many variables.  But there is a theoritical max to yield given a certain amount of wattage in a given amount of space.  I don't know what that number is, however.


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## New_2_Chronic (Aug 7, 2008)

I understand... that all makes sense. 

You keep mentioning single cola plants. Those seem like they would be good yield wise if you could let them get reaally tall. Is 3-4 ft tall(4ft is my max i can let them get)? If so that might be my best bet, and just have 16 single cola plants.

My aim is to have 3-4 ft plants after flowering, so I planned on flowering all my plants before they get 12 inches.  with a 4X 4 space it seems like 4 pretty good size plants could fit as well...

what would you do given my circumstances?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 7, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> I understand... that all makes sense.
> 
> You keep mentioning single cola plants. Those seem like they would be good yield wise if you could let them get reaally tall. Is 3-4 ft tall(4ft is my max i can let them get)? If so that might be my best bet, and just have 16 single cola plants.
> 
> ...



If you go with 4 larger plants, I think that you could possibly get 4 ozs per plant, so maybe a lb--depending on strain.  I think that 4 larger plants are easier to care for than a bunch of smaller ones.  In addition to this, many places prosecute growers on the number of plants they have growing, regardless of size.  

One of the things that I like about the 600W is that it puts out more lumens per watt than either a 400 or a 1000.  So, you are getting over 5600 lumens per sq ft--good lighting.  Optimize this by covering the walls with mylar, panda film, or paint flat white.  Ventilation is going to be important.  Keep temps within acceptable ranges, provide plenty of fresh air for your girls, watch your ph and ppms, and buy quality nutes and growing medium.  What strain are you growing?  I remember that you had a mother from bagseed, but can't remember what the babies were...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 7, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> You keep mentioning single cola plants. Those seem like they would be good yield wise if you could let them get reaally tall. Is 3-4 ft tall(4ft is my max i can let them get)? If so that might be my best bet, and just have 16 single cola plants.



Check out Growdude's WW grow that he did this way.  It's quite amazing.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13213


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## New_2_Chronic (Aug 7, 2008)

well i might see how many I end up after getting rid of the males,,, and I wont clone my big one anymore....probably going to end up with 6 or 7 good ones...Hopefully they wont get to crowded,,,

My 600 watt puts out 93,000 lumens for 5800 lumes per sq ft...

My temperature is steady 72 F when the lights are on.

My ventilation is excellent too, bot fresh air and exaust...Ive got a Vacum in the room...

MY PH is optimal in all my soil and water...

All my environementals are good to go... I scrapped my last grow (but was able to save the plant) because of all the screwed up environementals, I almost killed her several times...

And your right, My state has a 9 plant standard, anything under and its still a felony but only punishable by 1 to 3. Over that its 5-30....That is one of the big reasons for growing onece a year... I dont want to take the risk all year...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 7, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> well i might see how many I end up after getting rid of the males,,, and I wont clone my big one anymore....probably going to end up with 6 or 7 good ones...Hopefully they wont get to crowded,,,
> 
> My 600 watt puts out 93,000 lumens for 5800 lumes per sq ft...
> 
> ...



Sounds like you are ready to rock and roll.  Take pictures if you can.  

If your state has a 9 plant thing, I would recommend 2 crops a year with under 9 plants.


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## New_2_Chronic (Aug 7, 2008)

ill be under 9 after getting rid of the males... Im a little paranoid now that I have 12...

Does anyone do SOG or SCROG? Id like to see some pics and see what kind of yield people are getting...


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## 420FREEDOM (Nov 6, 2008)

BUBBA Kush/MASTER Kush

600 watts with four plants vegged one month, and flowered two gave me 3 ounces per plant- 12 ounces total.   That's four ounces a month, not bad.

how about use 2- 600 watt lights, each over 4   1 month old plants and flower these. your yield could be 24 ounes every three months,


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