# New Grower



## wasson (Nov 19, 2014)

Hi Guys/Girls long time lurker here who has finally got a grow under way 

I've got a 1.2m x 1.2m tent setup with a 1m x 1m Flood and drain table inside with 4 foot by 8 foot T5 hanging over head.

I popped some seeds in water last Friday and waited for tap root to show before dropping them in some pre-soaked ph'd rockwool cubes. I removed excess water from rockwool cubes so they weren't saturated (i think i still had them a bit too wet but lesson learnt).

So now a couple of questions.

When shall i transplant the current cubes to bigger ones? (some roots popping out of rockwool alread)

When can i start using the food and drain table? (i'm guessing a couple weeks yet, after i transplant and can start them on some low nutes?

When shall i lower my t5? ( they are about 500mm away at the minute was thinking when they all pop up i can lower the t5 a bit?

Thanks wasson 

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## Lesso (Nov 19, 2014)

Transplant now. Start flood and drain with water after you transplant. Add nutes @25 % strength when the cotyledons turn yellow.


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## Lesso (Nov 19, 2014)

Nice set up....but it is not possible to have a 4 foot by 8 foot t5 in a 1.2×1.2 meter tent. Just saying.


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## wasson (Nov 19, 2014)

Thanks Lesso, i will soak my cubes now and transplant tomorrow. I was holding back on using the table for now just because it seems a waste of water for the smaller cubes but i suppose once they are in the bigger ones it will be ok?!

I'm a bit worried about over watering them with the table at the moment to be honest.

wasson


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## wasson (Nov 19, 2014)

Lesso said:


> Nice set up....but it is not possible to have a 4 foot by 8 foot t5 in a 1.2×1.2 meter tent. Just saying.



Haha sorry i meant a 4ft 8 tube T5


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## Lesso (Nov 19, 2014)

I would set it to once a day for a 15min flood.  Check and see if that keeps the rock wool too wet...if so go every other day until they are bigger and need more water, they will let you know what they need. Rockwool keeps a lot of water so once a day should fly for a couple of weeks.


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## wasson (Nov 20, 2014)

Lesso said:


> I would set it to once a day for a 15min flood.  Check and see if that keeps the rock wool too wet...if so go every other day until they are bigger and need more water, they will let you know what they need. Rockwool keeps a lot of water so once a day should fly for a couple of weeks.



Thanks again Lesso, today i will be translating to the bigger rockwool cubes and commencing with the flood and drain system. I will post some pics again when all set up.


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## MR1 (Nov 20, 2014)

Good luck with your grow Wasson.


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## wasson (Nov 25, 2014)

Hi guys just a quick update, they seem to be getting bigger day by day and the roots also seem to be forever searching for more water.

A couple of them seem to have a bit of an off colour on the original two leaves that sprout up.

Temps are about 22-26 degrees c
Ph of water is 6.1
Temp of water is about 17-18 
PPM of water is about 70-80 

Any ideas or is this a normal occurrence?

They are 11 days old as well.

Thanks wasson 

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## Hushpuppy (Nov 25, 2014)

They are getting hungry I think. Keep a close eye on the pH. Ideally you want to have the pH "drift" within a range that is from 6.2 to 5.3 with 5.8 being the optimum. Don't let you pH go outside of these numbers for more than a few hours right now. As they get older and bigger, they can handle a wider swing of the pH but I try to not allow them to be outside that range for more than a day. 

When you do the first feeding, start out with very light nutrients. No more than 300ppm until they get a little bigger and look like they are really taking off,(probably 7-10 days) then you can bump the nutes to 450ppm and each week increase the nute levels until you reach about 700ppm(average max veg nute, some strains will like more while others will prefer less.)


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 26, 2014)

Actually, I don't like to let my pH get above 6.0 with hydro.  There is nothing that they absorb at that pH that they do not absorb at lower pHs.  

You are probably going to want to try and get the hydrotron over the top of the rockwool as the rockwool will grow algae when exposed to light.


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## wasson (Nov 27, 2014)

Thanks for the replies people! I've just covered the rockwool over and have upped the PPM to about 275 and got the PH to 5.8 (took some time).

Hopefully will see some progression over the next couple days.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 27, 2014)

be sure to continually monitor the pH in the reservoir every day until you feel out the trend of the pH as it will drift due to the changes in the water from the plants taking in both water and nutrients. You will find that as the plants get bigger and you increase the feeding, the pH will become more stable ffor longer periods of time. At that point you will be able to monitor the pH every few days rather than every day.


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## wasson (Nov 29, 2014)

Thanks Hushpuppy your right the PH is a bit unstable at the minute but it's not to bad.

A quick question for you. I want to keep the tent in the pictures as a veg tent and have a separate flower tent, are the roots going to get out of control and cover the table? 

Have you got an suggestions on how to keep the roots under control so i can move them safely to another tent once they are ready for flower?


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 29, 2014)

If you continue to veg them on that table, they will air prune the roots that come out of the medium, so they shouldn't get too difficult to handle. Once they get big enough to really hide the roots from light, you may get a little more root growth but I would think it shouldn't be too much trouble to move them. I wouldn't let them get too big before moving them to a more permanent location. Of course with that many plants, they will not get too big before they are cramped together anyway.


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## wasson (Nov 30, 2014)

They've had a couple of feeds now at 280 PPM and i think they are showing signs of a little bit of nute burn so i've backed the PPM down too 200. If they still show signs of nute burn after a couple of days shall i lower the PPM again?

PH is still 5.8 temps got a little bit hot today so going to get myself a couple of 100mm clip on fans to clip on the side of the table which will hopefully get the hot air moving away from the top of the plants.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 30, 2014)

What kind of exhaust system do you have set up?  Your exhaust fan should be able to deal with the heat.  You do need an oscillating fan in your space though to move the air around--it won't remove heat though--that is the job of your exhaust system.


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## wasson (Nov 30, 2014)

Hi THG i don't have any exhaust fans at the minute just some ports open at the top with some ducting leading out the room and a port at the bottom with some ducting leading to a fresh air supply. 

I didn't think i would need any due to it being winter but the temps sky rocketed outside today and the sun was out all day. I was planning on getting one when the temps outside started too rise, but maybe that was bad judgement and i should get one now?


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 3, 2014)

You should always have ventilation in your grow space. Not just fans stirring the air, but an exhaust fan to pull the heated and stale air out so that fresh air can be pulled in. This removes the heat that builds up from the lights (even in cold weather), and it removes the stale CO2 depleted air from the space and brings in fresh air for the plants to breathe. I have my exhaust going continuously but when it gets very cold out, I turn down the fan speed controller some so that I can maintain a decent temp while still refreshing the air.


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## wasson (Dec 4, 2014)

Thanks for the reply Hushpuppy you're a star, i've now purchased an extraction fan and i'm in the middle of setting it up!

I've uploaded some pics for you, they are 20 days old (from when i dropped them in water) what do you think?

PPM is 180
Tent temp is 20-25 C
Res Temp is 17-18 C
PH 5.8 

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## wasson (Dec 4, 2014)

They do look a bit droopy and i'm not quite sure why? They are getting fed every 36 hours at the minute (that's when the rockwool doesn't feel saturated) so i don't think they are getting over watered?

EDIT I think they maybe getting under watered, my paranoia from over watering may have been my downfall lol?


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 4, 2014)

They look like they are doing well. Your temps are right where you want them but I would try to get the water temp just a bit higher, about 19 is ideal I think. I noticed a couple of them have some yellowing on the lower leaves but that isn't an issue as much as something that often happens when the first leaves set right against the soil/medium. I don't think they are over or under watered. They are fine  I would give them a full 7 days at 180ppm then raise it to 300ppm for another 7-10 days depending on how quickly they grow, then bump to about 450ppm and add a small amount of cal/mag, about 2ml per 4ltr of water.


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## wasson (Dec 18, 2014)

So all is going well now i think, temps are stable now after adding an exhaust fan and so is the PH.

I've just set up my flowering tent 2.4m x 2.4m and i'm stuck on how many lights to put in. I initially thought 4 600 watt lights but now i'm swaying towards 2 1000 watt lights? 

I'm guessing with 2 1000 watt lights, temps will be easier to keep under control? But will it be enough lumens for the tent?

Any input would be great. 

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## Hushpuppy (Dec 21, 2014)

That is a big tent my friend. I would use 4 1000wHPS to flower with myself but you could use 4 600wHPS and still get away with it, especially if you set your plants so that you form a U shape so that the plants are under the lights. But if you are going to set them in an sog then you really need to blanket them with lumens to get the really dense buds. 

Ideally you want to have 6500 to 7500 lumens per square foot of lighted area. You have just under 64sqft in that tent. 4 of the 600w at an average of 92000 lum per sqft will give you 368000 lumens total which is 5750 per sqft. That is doable but you will need to keep the plants divided and set directly under the lights which will need to be kept 30-40cm above the plants for best results. 

Iff you go with 4 1000w lights which produce deeper penetrating light at an average output of 120-130,000 lumens per sqft, gives you about 500000 total lumens, which is 7812 lumens per sqft of lighted space. This will allow you to spread the plants out some without worrying about those plants on the outer edges of the light footprints not getting enough lumens to produce fat, dense buds.

Now this is going to require you to have some very good ventilation to pull the heat away from them lights. If you go with 6" fans and ducts, you may need 2 of them so that you can pull 2 lights on each fan. Iff you go with 4 600w, you can pull all 4 of them with 2x2 in parallel to the 1 exhaust ffan, If it is greater than 400cfm (which I think yours is about 450cfm). However, you will need to have 2 equal size carbon ffilters. so that you have one on the end of each pair of lights(which are connected in series). You would have to get a wye duct connector to do the parallel connection to both pairs of lights.


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## wasson (Dec 21, 2014)

Thanks for the reply again Hush, i may have been slightly ill informed with the size of tent i required by the sounds of it, but that's no problem i can always cut a bit off the tent with some white sheeting if worse comes to worse.

I would love to stick 4 1000 Watt bulbs in there hush but i'm a bit worried about the sudden jump in my electricity bill, i was still even worried about sticking 4 600 watts in there. I'm not sure if it's propaganda used by the police to scare growers off though?

I think i will go with 4 600 watt lamps and maybe cut off 2 or 3 foot of the tent so all the plants are closer together and the lamps are closer together also for better penetration? 

If i get air cooled hoods and attach the carbon filter to the other end of one of the lights  and pull the air with this 10 inch fan which pulls 1480m³ per hour would this be sufficient or a 12 inch one which pulls 2380m³ per hour?


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 22, 2014)

I think the 1480 will do all that you need. You may have to put a speed controller on it so that you can turn it down some or it may implode the tent. As I said above, you can get away with 4 600w lights in that space. If you move the them into a U shape so that you can walk into the center of the tent from the door and then adjust the position of the lights to account for that, and then keep them about 30cm off the top of the canopy, you should do just fine.


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## DankHobbyist (Dec 23, 2014)

There is also inline filters so you can keep filter out of tent.  You can run goods straight to y then to inline then fan.  May be cheaper.  I wish I had gotten an inline filter myself...  I have a 4+? Ft long filter for my 5x5 tent it's huge.  Lol.  Tent was last minute fix for not moving.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 23, 2014)

wasson said:


> Thanks for the reply again Hush, i may have been slightly ill informed with the size of tent i required by the sounds of it, but that's no problem i can always cut a bit off the tent with some white sheeting if worse comes to worse.
> 
> I would love to stick 4 1000 Watt bulbs in there hush but i'm a bit worried about the sudden jump in my electricity bill, i was still even worried about sticking 4 600 watts in there. I'm not sure if it's propaganda used by the police to scare growers off though?
> 
> ...



YES--it is propaganda used by LEOs.  They cannot get access to your electrical records unless they have a warrant.  They do not secure a warrant unless they are fairly sure you have a grow set up.  Pay your bills on time and cut down on other electrical usage where you can.  Use CFLs for home lighting.  Turn your thermostat down in the winter and up in the summer, take shorter showers, turn off things you are not using, put computers and like electronics on a sleep mode when not in use, etc, etc.


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## lyfespan (Dec 23, 2014)

Things are looking good in here, nice job wasson. I see someone is having fun with the ever changing set up for efficiency. I too am setting up a new space, so fun


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## zem (Dec 23, 2014)

flood and drain in growrocks is my method of choice for growing, it is IMO the best way to grow, so congrats on choosing this method. that said, i notice one thing, that your flooding table is exposed and wet, so i guess that there will be algae growing there especially in flowering under HID. some people put a lid, i figured, instead of paying for the lid, pay the money for more growrocks, fill the whole tray, and get done with it, LOL I did just that, and I never looked back.


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## wasson (Dec 27, 2014)

Thanks for input guys it's been a busy few days and haven't managed to get back too you all.

@zem Hi zem, this tent is just a veg tent and they will be transplanted to a different room soon but  i am keeping an eye on any algae ect and if i spot any it will be cleaned and then covered over. 

Just out of interested how many times a day do you flood your table? I've just upped mine to twice a day but they seem to be drinking more water than nutes my PPM gets slightly higher each day but the plants still seem to be growing fine and look healthy?!

@lyfespan Thanks for your words lyfespan i'm certainly learning stuff every day but that's part of the fun  

@THG Thanks for putting my mind at ease THG, i've changed all lighting fittings in the house and keeping usage down to a minimum, hopefully all will go unnoticed if i just pay the bills on time and not go too crazy with the wattage. 

@Huck Thanks again Huck you're a massive help.

Happy Christmas and New Year!!


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## zem (Dec 27, 2014)

i flood no less than 6x/day and thats in cold weather, in summer i up it to 8-10


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## wasson (Dec 27, 2014)

Is that in veg stage as well Zem? How long do you flood the table for as well?

This is my first grow so it's all new to me, the only reason that stops me flooding it more is because i don't want the rockwool to stay saturated all day which will cause root rot i was told?


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## wasson (Dec 31, 2014)

Just thought i would post some more pics as everyone likes looking at pics :banana:

They are really starting to take off now and i think they are enjoying the environment, they are a bit behind of where i thought they would be but i got a feeling i was underfeeding them or not flooding them enough.

I've started assembling the flower room ready for them in a couple weeks i hope. 

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## lyfespan (Dec 31, 2014)

Looking good, ya got to be excited about the bloom room. I'm so stoked to set up my new space, just ordered 4 T-5 HO 12lamp fixtures for my veg room


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## zem (Jan 1, 2015)

wasson said:


> Is that in veg stage as well Zem? How long do you flood the table for as well?
> 
> This is my first grow so it's all new to me, the only reason that stops me flooding it more is because i don't want the rockwool to stay saturated all day which will cause root rot i was told?



in veg it would depend on light and heat, i guess you can flood 2x in veg. the rockwool cube is small and whatever water that is held in it after flooding will be quickly sucked by the plant with big roots. it would only be a concern if the plant is a baby in the cube and the cube is being saturated. i have tried flooding my table for different schedules, normally i would do it for 6-7 minutes which is what my table requires to flood + 2 mins or so for some circulation.


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## wasson (Jan 1, 2015)

Yes lyfespan I can't wait too put them in the bloom room it seems the bigger they get the more exited i get. Although this is my first grow and first time using T5's they really do seem the best option, you can get them real close without any heat issues which was one of my worries keeping temperatures under control.  

Thanks zem i've now upped it too 3 times a day and a 15 min flood each time, they seem to be enjoying it. It's all about trial and error i suppose.


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## wasson (Jan 1, 2015)

Just a couple of questions i wanted to ask, when do you think will be the best time to take some clones off of these? (il take some closer pics if needed) 

Also do you have to wait for the growth to fully recover before putting them into flower?

I was planning on taking 2 cuttings off each plant.


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## Rosebud (Jan 1, 2015)

I can't see where your going to take clones yet. Unless you top them..but clones are usually taken much lower then the top.  Have you considered topping? Then you would have bushy plants with lots of tops on them.


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## wasson (Jan 2, 2015)

Hi Rosebud i did consider topping them but as it's my first grow i didn't want to over complicate things. After looking into it after your post i think i will go ahead with topping them.

Have you got any tips or guides i should read before going ahead with it?


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## Rosebud (Jan 2, 2015)

Wasson, if those were my plants I would top them.  See the space between the top set of leaves and the second set. Cut off the first set. I know it seems extreme but it isn't. 
I just did a little plant so you could see how to do it. I tried to draw a black line where I was about to cut... hope you can see this.  

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## wasson (Jan 10, 2015)

Thanks for the advise Rosebud, i went ahead with it and topped the plants. They have grown quit a bit over the last 10 days and now i think they are ready for a couple of clones to take off each of them.

I will be buying all the materials i need over the next couple of days and take the clones on Tuesday.

Here are some more pics. 

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## wasson (Jan 10, 2015)

I cant fit the carbon filter inline with any of the hoods so looks like i will have to hang it right in the center of the tent and then join it with one of the hoods. So that means i will have two bends in the ducting is that going to be ok?


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## lyfespan (Jan 10, 2015)

wasson said:


> I cant fit the carbon filter inline with any of the hoods so looks like i will have to hang it right in the center of the tent and then join it with one of the hoods. So that means i will have two bends in the ducting is that going to be ok?



For every 90 you decrease the cfms, if I remember correctly, but THG would be able to answer faster.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 12, 2015)

I don't know how much room you have outside your tent, but you could build and inline filter box pretty easy iff you are handy. You simply make a box that is big enough to mount the filter within it where there is about 8"minimum space all around the filter, except on one end where the filter flange will co through the skin of the box and directly connect to the exhaust fan. on the other end of the box from where the filter attaches, you would have a hole for the flex tubing to connect to the box ffrom the lights. You could also put 2 holes in the box for the flex hose to come in from each set of lights. Just connect them on either side of the box. As the air is pulled out of the box through the filter, that will in turn pull the air from the 2 hoses that go to each set of lights.

You would have to make the box out of thin plywood and 2"x2" framing. You would want to use screws to put it together and seal it so that it doesn't draw air from outside of the tent. but then make one side of the box so that it can be opened up after every grow and the filter vacuumed to remove dust buildup. Iff you want me to draw a picture of it ffor you to work by, just let me know


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## wasson (Jan 12, 2015)

Wow that's a great idea Hushpuppy i will have a think about that and see what i can do as space is a bit limited outside of the tent!

Is it ok if you draw a little pic just so i can picture it better in my head!

Thanks Hushpuppy


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 12, 2015)

Here is a simple drawing for you. Its not to scale or anything. It depends on how big your filter is as you want to have a minimum airspace of 8" on all sides except where it mounts to the plywood for the flange to mount the fan to it. You will need to seal the pieces with silicone or something so air doesn't get by. I would use about 6 sheet metal screws to go through the wood into the end of the filter to hold it to the plywood on the one end. And technically You could shorten the box and screw the other end to the plywood if you want. Then you wouldn't have to strap the filter in place to hold the weight. 

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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 12, 2015)

Wow hush puppy That's Awesome Thanks for sharing. If you put a box around the fan it will make it a lot quieter. On YouTube where everything is a lie they used a DB meter measured the sound then put a cardboard box around it and it went down. Got even more quiet with a silencer on the output as airflow can be noisey. Insulated duct makes less noise. As a tent grower stuff outside the tent is a huge plus. Thanks


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## Rosebud (Jan 12, 2015)

The plants are looking good.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 13, 2015)

You are correct Stank, if you make the box so that the fan is inside, it will quiet it down a good bit, and the duct muffler also helps. I use one on my system. It allows the air to expand and then the noise cancelling foam inside absorbs the vibrations. Glad to help


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## lyfespan (Jan 13, 2015)

Hushpuppy said:


> You are correct Stank, if you make the box so that the fan is inside, it will quiet it down a good bit, and the duct muffler also helps. I use one on my system. It allows the air to expand and then the noise cancelling foam inside absorbs the vibrations. Glad to help



Nice stealth box Hush


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## wasson (Jan 13, 2015)

If i used a set up like that Hush would i have to take off the glass on the hoods to suck up the smell and general heat in the room?

Thanks Rose they really are a nice colour of green i could look at them for hours and can't wait to get them in the flowering room.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 13, 2015)

No you would just leave one end of the 2 lights open, then connect the other end to the light next to it, then from the other side of that one, flex hose out of tent to one side of box. The 2 lights farthest from the filter box would be left open on the end(as they all have 2 openings to the hoods for connecting duct hose.


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## wasson (Feb 3, 2015)

Not been able to update in a while been so busy and they were a little a little delayed going in the big tent.

Here is some pictures for you. 

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## wasson (Feb 3, 2015)

They are all looking fine except one which was really droopy. I think i was overfeeding them, so i backed off on the flooding and now only flood 4 times when light are on instead of 5. It seems too be getting more perky now so hopefully problem solved.

All my clones died as i didn't give them enough attention  I had some issues with other stuff so i had limited time. I will be buying some more seeds over the next couple of days to go back in the veg tent.


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