# sealed recirculating co2 grow box



## 911reagan

hello i would like to start by saying a common problem with rooms running constant exhaust is a lower concentration of co2, not as low as a room with no exhaust but not as good as a sealed room with co2. the problem some people have with sealed rooms with co2 is excessive temperatures. i believe plants can utilize up to 5000 fc at 90-85 farenheit co2 with a ppm less than 1200 at a relative humidity below 55% but above 50%. with a sealed grow room all of these factors are much harder to control, while maintaining a consistent level of co2

i think i have a solution and it is a sealed grow room with recirculating exhaust.

1st make sure to seal up your grow room completely. a good way is with duct tape. i envision this in a 3x3x5 ft grow box with three walls and the front being a sheet of pandafilm/mylar/reflectix etc. on one side will be the intake fan or pusher fan, not the most efficient design as far as air movement but necessary to recirculate exhausted co2 rich air. this fan will be on the lowest part of the pusher fan side as this will provide colder air by the means of the exhaust duct acting as a heat sink.

cut a hole in the pusher fan side and install the fan and seal around with duct tapemaking sure there are no leaks.

next we install the puller fan side. install puller fan on the side that is opposite the pusher fan and about 2 inches above where you feel the top of the canopy will be . secure the puller fan on wall opposite the pusher fan and make sure it wont fall duct tape is good for sealing but may need other support such as hooks etc.

now we install the recirculation duct. install ducting the exact diameter of both fans so that the puller fan connects to the pusher fan so you have one fan pushing air into the room and another pulling that same air out of the room in a constant loop.i find its best to run the exhaust duct from the puller fan, behind the box and around to the pusher fan. also to reduce humidity , install an intermediate cylinder or box( coffee can works) and fill with silica beads and screens to keep them from moving. attach the pusher duct and the puller duct so the air goes through the cylinder pulling moisture from the duct. to reduce heat and vent problematic ethylene from the box we install a small fan on the ceiling of the box. this will be installed closest to the pusher fan side so that it sucks heat as well as ethylene out of the box while leaving room temp air and co2 in the recirc system. now this part is very important, we need to cut a small hole in the box so that the ethylene/ heat vent pulls fresh air from the hole and not from any leaks around the bottom of the box. if we neglected to cut this hole the negative pressure would force a leak anywhere on the box and it could pull air that is not enriched with co2 , defeating the purpose. the hole needs to be as close to the fan as possible. it should be on the same wall as the pusher fan above the canopy by at least 5 inches and within 1-3 inches below the ethylene/ heat exhaust fan. we basically want the fresh air to make it easier for the fan to pull heat ethylene out of the box, while keeping that same fresh air from entering the recirculating duct system. 

density of co2= 1.98 kg/m cubed
density of ethylene= 1.18 kg/ m cubed
density of air= 1.225 kg/m cubed

as you can see ethylene is very light even lighter than air, naturally it will rise to the top , hot air as we know also rises to eliminate heat issues. the co2 being the densest of the 3 gases will stay in the bottom or pulled through the recirc system.

it is important for the heat/ ethylene extraction fan to have a lower cfm rating than the recirc sytem fans. this will ensure they are exhausting or recirculating their respective gases.


now you are done. it is important to be able to control at least one of the fans speeds for most control how ever if you can only use one fan controller make it for the pusher fan as the puller fan will always be limited by the rpms of the pusher. it is even possible to use one fan but make sure it is the puller fan up to to increase upward air movement maximizing co2 uptake

now you have much more control as opposed to running a fan timer in your grow room plus these added benefits:

1 less wasted co2 
2 more consistent level of co2
3 ability to control humidity more easily
4 easier temp control
5 less risk of outside pests entering
6 increased air movement in the grow room, co2 is very dense and tends to pool on the bottom so upward air movement and negative pressure are helpful
7  reduced odor 

i hope someone found this useful i will be implementing it soon

a side note this setup is intended for co2 only, without co2 enrichment the plants would use up available co2 as well as recirculate hotter air since it is a sealed system

to create this you should need to spend =166$ (updated price)

1. 50 cfm ventilation fan =7$  for ethylene heat extraction ceiling of box (updated price) yes iv found at least 5 that cost 7$

2. 2 250 cfm 6 inch duct fans= 40$ total (updated price)

3. 6 ft 6 inch ducting = 12$

4. duct tape =3$

5. co2 monitor= 104$ (is also a temp/ humidity monitor) or you could buy a 166$ temp humidity co2 monitor timer and controller. i figured id give the cheapest monitor first for people who dotn want to use a burner or tanks

6. 500 grams silica beads-5$ (updated price)

with this method you can use the more ghetto methods of co2 production ie baking soda and vinegar, seeing as it is sealed save for the small exhaust fan up top, or yeast fermentation or yeast reproduction method(preferred)

with a co2 monitor you will easily able to see if this method has any validity and I hypothesize that it will save you money compared to a timed vent with other sealed grow rooms. I know 166 sounds expensive, but most co2 basic kits for a tank will cost you 60-120 and for a co2 sensor that releases co2 at a given ppm will cost 225- well over 1000$,not to mention the 200$ 20 lb tank you need as well. this setup will tell you every thing you need to know and wont waste co2 while making the baking soda vinegar method more effective and eliminating ethylene from the area

now with picture!!!!





aw gee that's swell!


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## Growdude

Recirculating air around in a closed loop is going to do nothing.
A small hole with 17 cfm fan to remove heat is not going to cut it.

There is no reason to have a push and pull fan setup.

Heat,humidity have to be exhausted no way around it.

Homemade Co2 buckets will not produce 1200 ppm and maintain it.
Your going to do much better with constant exhaust with good fresh air intake.


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## nouvellechef

Brotha. You are way off. Your making it way too complicated. Duct tape? Lol.

Let me make it easy. Assuming you have a sheet rocked room that is not duct taped, but mudded and taped. A real room. Now,

Few grand=

-CO2 generator, preferably NG hooked to a constant supply
-Exhaust fan(scrubber) and filter, maybe two depending on room size 
-CO2 controller
-Commercial De-humidifier 
-Mini Split or Self contained frost box

Turn both on. Easy peezy. The hard part is actually growing the plants.


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## The Hemp Goddess

It would be great if you could set up a CO2 system for $224, but unfortunately, you can't.  The fan you mention are duct booster fans--they are not meant to be used alone, but are made to be used in conjunction with larger fans on long duct runs.  Homemade CO2 things, like baking soda and vinegar are not cost effective and do not produce 1200 ppm, and is not anywhere near constant.  About the only way to effectively run CO2 is with bottled CO2 or a CO2 generator.  It needs to be regulated with one of those expensive regulators you mentioned.  I hate to see you waste even $224--what you are proposing is not going to work and be a waste of time, money, and effort.


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## 911reagan

Growdude said:
			
		

> Recirculating air around in a closed loop is going to do nothing.
> A small hole with 17 cfm fan to remove heat is not going to cut it.
> 
> There is no reason to have a push and pull fan setup.
> 
> Heat,humidity have to be exhausted no way around it.
> 
> Homemade Co2 buckets will not produce 1200 ppm and maintain it.
> Your going to do much better with constant exhaust with good fresh air intake.



correction 50 cfm not 17. humididty will be adsorbed by silica beads. het will rise and be exhaust. upon completion i will test and show proof of co2, levels, temp and humididty. have you tried something simialer? pusher fan IS necessary to keep dense co2 moving on the grow box floor.


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## 911reagan

we shall see if it is a waste more to come


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## nouvellechef

Sometimes ya gotta find out the hard way in life.


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## 911reagan

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Sometimes ya gotta find out the hard way in life.


 
the easy way isn't fun. silly. besides what do I have to lose? if my biggest problem is the exhaust fan isn't powerful enough, I simply buy a more powerful fan. not exactly "hard"


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## pcduck

You have so many problems besides just the fan.



			
				nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Sometimes ya gotta find out the hard way in life.



Looks that way


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## The Hemp Goddess

911reagan said:
			
		

> the easy way isn't fun. silly. besides what do I have to lose? if my biggest problem is the exhaust fan isn't powerful enough, I simply buy a more powerful fan. not exactly "hard"



It isn't just the fans.  Baking soda and vinegar simply is not going to produce enough CO2 to be useful.  In addition, there is no way to control it.

You have time, money, and energy to lose.  You would be better spending that $224 on more lighting rather than a cobbled CO2 set-up that is fraught with problems.


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## 911reagan

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> It isn't just the fans.  Baking soda and vinegar simply is not going to produce enough CO2 to be useful.  In addition, there is no way to control it.
> 
> You have time, money, and energy to lose.  You would be better spending that $224 on more lighting rather than a cobbled CO2 set-up that is fraught with problems.




i did note that baking soda vinegar method is not optimal, the optimal method would be yeast reproduction cycle followed by fermentation, as the reproductive cycle of yeast yields 3 times the amount of co2 as fermentation.

whether you chose yeast, a burner, a co2 tank or baking soda vinegar are just small facets and preferences of each grower. if you were to use a stronger acid on baking soda it would yield even more co2. the possibilities are endless. 

the point being if i can keep co2 levels stable with this setup, and prevent them from being sucked out( i will have the fans run in the empty box first and have the ppm tester at estimated canopy level to see if co2 stays in the room after 1,2,6,12, and 24 hours)it will be worth the time, energy , and small amount of money it costs.

and i have a 600 watt digital ballast setup i dont see the need for another one,especially in a 3x3 area

also of the 166$(updated price) 104$ is for the co2 meter alone,  if you are really wary of sticking to sodium bicarbonate and acetic acid/ yeast sugar and starch method, you can always buy that 200$ cylinder,  60-120$ worth of connections and valves,166$ co2 meter timer fan controller etc and upgrade eventually.

most of the cost of my current setup are all things you would need anyways with a co2 setup, save the silica beads

and the cost to run an ac in the grow room will be 140$ for a 5000 btu unit as well as 36$ a month if your only doing 12/12. if you prefer a 24 hour veg cycle it will be 76$ a month.

for the fermentation method, a 3x3x5 grow room is 45 cubic feet

to figure out how much co2 we need to enrich the room to 1100 ppm we:

multiply cubic feet by .00075 to get .03375 cubic feet of co2 needed every 4 hours or .2025 per day.( remember atmospheric co2 is 350 ppm)

of course monitoring and testing are still necessary to ensure it stays in the 1000-1200 range this is an approximation for comparison purposes

1 lb sugar will ferment into .5 lb co2 and .5 lb alcohol. .5 lb co2 = 8.7 cu ft

8.7cu ft divided by .2025= 42.96 days of 1100 ppm co2(350+750)

yeast can be reused but mixing old yeast with new yeast yields good results.

cost for 1 year of fermentation= 4.36$ per year for a 25 lb bag of sugar which costs 13.76 $

not too bad when you figure a 20 lb co2 gets a refill between 20-54 $ depending on where you go to. my guy fills my 5 lber for 6 $ and iv been going to him for years for my kegmeister 9000 refills. now take into account you're going to run out of co2 after about a week  with a 20 lber thats 20$ x 52= 1040$ per year, even with a burner that will end up being 300$ a year, and thats for a 3x3x5 growbox.

now im not going to get into the subtle nuances of aerating the wort( great for co2 but as with sugar(please invert me) too much can damage the cell walls of the yeast especially during propagation phase) but i provided the above calculations as a cost example.

and dont forget , a good ipa goes great with a piece filled with blueberry. the hoppiness of the ipa offsets the fruitiness of the smoke. might as well kill two birds make co2 and some brew


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## 911reagan

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Brotha. You are way off. Your making it way too complicated. Duct tape? Lol.
> 
> Let me make it easy. Assuming you have a sheet rocked room that is not duct taped, but mudded and taped. A real room. Now,
> 
> Few grand=
> 
> -CO2 generator, preferably NG hooked to a constant supply
> -Exhaust fan(scrubber) and filter, maybe two depending on room size
> -CO2 controller
> -Commercial De-humidifier
> -Mini Split or Self contained frost box
> 
> Turn both on. Easy peezy. The hard part is actually growing the plants.




i will say this, i like the way you think. but iv never been the keep it simple stupid type of person


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## Growdude

911reagan said:
			
		

> now take into account you're going to run out of co2 after about a week  with a 20 lber thats 20$ x 52= 1040$ per year, even with a burner that will end up being 300$ a year, and thats for a 3x3x5 growbox.


 
 Actually a 20 lb tank would last 437 days.
and a 5 gal propane tank lasts 3.69 years.

A 45 cubic foot area (yours) @ 1 CFH=3 min on time. At this flow rate:
			If you are using a 20 pound CO2 bottle with a regulator, it will last			174.8 hours.
			If you have a CO2 Generator a 5 gallon propane tank will last			540 hours. What you read was the on time total.

This is the TOTAL time the tank will last.

Also the 437 days was figured with the recomended air exchange of every 3 hours.
So to make it simple for you, every 3 hours the tank runs for 3 min, with a tank lasting 174.8 hours @ 1 CFH. 
Total of 24 min run time per day /144.8 hours total tank time = 437 days.


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## gunforhire

Sometimes the hardest part of asking for advice is listening to it.


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## The Hemp Goddess

"...whether you chose yeast, a burner, a co2 tank or baking soda vinegar are just small facets and preferences of each grower. if you were to use a stronger acid on baking soda it would yield even more co2. the possibilities are endless..."

That simply is not true.  The only effective way to supplement CO2 is with a CO2 tank or a CO2 generator.  The source of the CO2 is not a "small facet" as both the yeast method and the baking soda method are ineffective.  And the CO2 MUST be regulated. 

I do not want new growers going out and spending over $200 for something that is not going to work.  So, new growers, this will not work and is a waste of time, effort, and money.


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## trillions of atoms

Thank you growdude,

Also... Yeast reproduces and dies off quickly, at its own rate. I'm a distiller, and thinking that a 25 pound bag of sugar will ferment for an entire year producing a ppm that high, with the setup your talking about... is silly.

The fermentation process with temps of around 80 degrees with a sugar wash is a vigorous ferment for three days tops and it dwindles from there. That's with a proper specific gravity mixing two pound of sugar per one gallon of water.


This is so redic dude, no offense... But your going about this all wrong.

Why try and reinvent the wheel? It works fine!  This contraption will be nothing more than a waste of time and whatever money... But if that's how you learn go for it. 

Try switching to hydro if you want better yields.  There is so much I could say but I think I made my point. 


Welcome to the site BTW


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## trillions of atoms

Might I add , your going about this as an engineer would... A person who understands the concepts yet can't put it together in their head that it won't work "in real life"  and not just "on paper".  

And I mean that in a good way.


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## The Hemp Goddess

trillions of atoms said:
			
		

> Might I add , your going about this as an engineer would... A person who understands the concepts yet can't put it together in their head that it won't work "in real life"  and not just "on paper".
> 
> And I mean that in a good way.



That makes me laugh.  I have gotten blue prints from engineers that simply were not plumbable.  After arguing with one homeowner about the impossibility of the plans, I finally gave in and said that I could work from the plan, but I had really thought they wanted their master toilet to flush.


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## 911reagan

Growdude said:
			
		

> Actually a 20 lb tank would last 437 days.
> and a 5 gal propane tank lasts 3.69 years.
> 
> A 45 cubic foot area (yours) @ 1 CFH=3 min on time. At this flow rate:
> If you are using a 20 pound CO2 bottle with a regulator, it will last			174.8 hours.
> If you have a CO2 Generator a 5 gallon propane tank will last			540 hours. What you read was the on time total.
> 
> This is the TOTAL time the tank will last.
> 
> Also the 437 days was figured with the recomended air exchange of every 3 hours.
> So to make it simple for you, every 3 hours the tank runs for 3 min, with a tank lasting 174.8 hours @ 1 CFH.
> Total of 24 min run time per day /144.8 hours total tank time = 437 days.



and that is the equivalent of doing nothing. a 20 lb tank wont last more than 2 weeks if you're doing it right


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## 911reagan

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> "...whether you chose yeast, a burner, a co2 tank or baking soda vinegar are just small facets and preferences of each grower. if you were to use a stronger acid on baking soda it would yield even more co2. the possibilities are endless..."
> 
> That simply is not true.  The only effective way to supplement CO2 is with a CO2 tank or a CO2 generator.  The source of the CO2 is not a "small facet" as both the yeast method and the baking soda method are ineffective.  And the CO2 MUST be regulated.
> 
> I do not want new growers going out and spending over $200 for something that is not going to work.  So, new growers, this will not work and is a waste of time, effort, and money.



i did not know this  was the beginner forum.


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## 911reagan

multifarious said:
			
		

> It appears that you have the "stupid" part nailed


and you have the simple stupid part nailed


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## 911reagan

gunforhire said:
			
		

> Sometimes the hardest part of asking for advice is listening to it.


i never asked for any advice


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## pcduck

Abraham Lincoln  said:
			
		

> Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak out and remove all doubt.





			
				Charlie Chaplin  said:
			
		

> Failure is unimportant. It takes courage to make a fool of yourself.




:ignore:


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## 911reagan

_A dreamer is one who can only find his way by moonlight, and his punishment is that he sees the dawn before the rest of the world._
Oscar Wilde


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## pcduck

Joseph Roux  said:
			
		

> A fine quotation is a diamond in the hand of a man of wit and a pebble in the hand of a fool.






			
				Euripides  said:
			
		

> Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish.


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## 911reagan

_Confucius say: little duck boy with deflated rubberdoll have much time for redundant quotings_

also, you've used a catholic priest as one of your "gems" while misquoting him. if you don't like the thread stay out. this isn't for you. talk your fool sense elsewhere


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## NorCalHal

911reagan said:
			
		

> and that is the equivalent of doing nothing. a 20 lb tank wont last more than 2 weeks if you're doing it right


 
Your trippin'

I have a 7500 CU/ft room, and a 20lb propane tank will last a month keepin' the room at 1500.


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## 911reagan

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Your trippin'
> 
> I have a 7500 CU/ft room, and a 20lb propane tank will last a month keepin' the room at 1500.


 
a 20 lb co2 tank. I imagine a 20 lb propane tank would last at least 3 weeks . sorry I should have been more clear on the type of tank I was referring to


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## NorCalHal

If I am reading your room design correct, then your room is not sealed right?


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## pcduck

911reagan said:
			
		

> _Confucius say: little duck boy with deflated rubberdoll have much time for redundant quotings_
> 
> also, you've used a catholic priest as one of your "gems" while misquoting him. if you don't like the thread stay out. this isn't for you. talk your fool sense elsewhere




brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/josephroux147861.html






			
				Euripides said:
			
		

> _Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish._



Fits you to a tee


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## 911reagan

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> If I am reading your room design correct, then your room is not sealed right?


 
the important parts are sealed but a vent is added up top to vent lighter gases(ethylene and hot air) while dense co2 is being recirculated. it is necessary for a vent on the ceiling of the box to reduce negative pressure that could cause leaks


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## 911reagan

pcduck said:
			
		

> brainyquote.com/quotes/quotes/j/josephroux147861.html
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Fits you to a tee


 
Euripides was the carrot top of greek tragedies, and joseph roux was a pedophile. you've misquoted your pedophile lovelorn: "A fine quotation is a diamond on the finger of a man of wit, and a pebble in the hand of a fool. "

you have neither wit nor a fine quotation there. funny you need a site like brainy quotes.com to show case your "wit"

 il ask you again stay out of my thread you are nothing but trouble


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## NorCalHal

911reagan said:
			
		

> the important parts are sealed but a vent is added up top to vent lighter gases(ethylene and hot air) while dense co2 is being recirculated. it is necessary for a vent on the ceiling of the box to reduce negative pressure that could cause leaks


 
No Sir. You must be sealed completely in order to maintain the correct target ppm you want.

If you are truly after an optimal sealed room CO2 set up, there is only one way to go, otherwise, you are pissin' up a rope.

The room is completely sealed. An Airconditioning unit and a dehumidifier must be used. That is the ONLY way to completely control temp and rh in a sealed room. 

Now, lets get to the CO2. Yeast? That my friend, is the biggest scam on the hydro market yet. Someone is makin' a killin', and it ain't the cats buying yeast.
You got to have a lot in order to make a significant gain when you elevate CO2. Temps,rh, nuit ppm and MAINTAINED CO2 levels are the big 4.

Having no control over your CO2 ppm is just plain worthless man.

Now, there are other ways to run a CO2 system usuing exhaust/Intake fans, and we can get into that if you want, but your system won't get you the "bang" for the low $ you wanna spend.

I got a CO2 sticky somewhere, I'll try to find it.


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## NorCalHal

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58680


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## pcduck

:rofl:

I guess you should have thought of that before you sent me that nasty pm 2 weeks ago. For absolutely no reason. 

But to keep it on subject your co2 crap will not work. 500 grams of silica is not going to remove the humidity. Your fans are too small you want your exchanges to be fast so that you can get the co2 levels high again. Your gizmo to produce co2 is a waste. If one was to use what you have describe it would most likely kill their plants or reduce the yield so much it would not be worth it. What co2 are you re-circulating? The plants will consume all the co2 your rinkydinky system will produce.


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## Growdude

911reagan said:
			
		

> and that is the equivalent of doing nothing. a 20 lb tank wont last more than 2 weeks if you're doing it right


 
There is no discussion about. its a question of simple math.
your room is only 45 cubic feet, 

Here you can see for yourself, but im thru with you.
http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/co2_calculator.asp


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## 911reagan

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> No Sir. You must be sealed completely in order to maintain the correct target ppm you want.
> 
> If you are truly after an optimal sealed room CO2 set up, there is only one way to go, otherwise, you are pissin' up a rope.
> 
> The room is completely sealed. An Airconditioning unit and a dehumidifier must be used. That is the ONLY way to completely control temp and rh in a sealed room.
> 
> Now, lets get to the CO2. Yeast? That my friend, is the biggest scam on the hydro market yet. Someone is makin' a killin', and it ain't the cats buying yeast.
> You got to have a lot in order to make a significant gain when you elevate CO2. Temps,rh, nuit ppm and MAINTAINED CO2 levels are the big 4.
> 
> Having no control over your CO2 ppm is just plain worthless man.
> 
> Now, there are other ways to run a CO2 system usuing exhaust/Intake fans, and we can get into that if you want, but your system won't get you the "bang" for the low $ you wanna spend.
> 
> I got a CO2 sticky somewhere, I'll try to find it.


 
I understand what youre saying but with a completely sealed room ethylene accumulates which is not good. im going to at the very least try this setup and if it doesn't work back to the drawing board. how ever I am determined to find a way to manage co2 levels without a tank or burner. but thanks for your input youre one of the more constructive users on this forum


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## 911reagan

pcduck said:
			
		

> :rofl:
> 
> I guess you should have thought of that before you sent me that nasty pm 2 weeks ago. For absolutely no reason.
> 
> But to keep it on subject your co2 crap will not work. 500 grams of silica is not going to remove the humidity. Your fans are too small you want your exchanges to be fast so that you can get the co2 levels high again. Your gizmo to produce co2 is a waste. If one was to use what you have describe it would most likely kill their plants or reduce the yield so much it would not be worth it. What co2 are you re-circulating? The plants will consume all the co2 your rinkydinky system will produce.


 
and again I will ask you to stay out of my posts you are a trouble maker. doesn't the bhc miss their "queen"


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## 911reagan

Growdude said:
			
		

> There is no discussion about. its a question of simple math.
> your room is only 45 cubic feet,
> 
> Here you can see for yourself, but im thru with you.
> http://www.hydroponics.net/learn/co2_calculator.asp


 
that link doesn't work but I would check your work and not rely on that calculator


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## pcduck

911reagan who are you really?

Kind of sounds like you are a former, disgruntle member.



			
				911reagan said:
			
		

> and again I will ask you to stay out of my posts you are a trouble maker.



Not as long as you keep posting crap. 

Now lets talk about trouble maker...Was I the one then sent out nasty pm's?... No...Did 911reagan send out nasty pm's?.. Yes...Who came on to the BHC with their first 2 posts as a member here spewing stuff about witchcraft and practicing witchcraft.....So before you call me a trouble maker maybe you should point your finger at yourself.

Hey at least you did not say I was wrong about your set-up and how messed up it is.


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## Growdude

pcduck said:
			
		

> 911reagan who are you really?
> 
> Kind of sounds like you are a former, disgruntle member.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as long as you keep posting crap.
> 
> Now lets talk about trouble maker...Was I the one then sent out nasty pm's?... No...Did 911reagan send out nasty pm's?.. Yes...Who came on to the BHC with their first 2 posts as a member here spewing stuff about witchcraft and practicing witchcraft.....So before you call me a trouble maker maybe you should point your finger at yourself.
> 
> Hey at least you did not say I was wrong about your set-up and how messed up it is.


 
Im thinking the same thing.


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## Growdude

911reagan said:
			
		

> that link doesn't work but I would check your work and not rely on that calculator


 
The link works fine so does my math. im sorry you cant figure it out but that's why they have the calculator.


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## The Hemp Goddess

911reagan said:
			
		

> I understand what youre saying but with a completely sealed room ethylene accumulates which is not good. im going to at the very least try this setup and if it doesn't work back to the drawing board. how ever I am determined to find a way to manage co2 levels without a tank or burner. but thanks for your input youre one of the more constructive users on this forum



We are trying to tell you that there is NO way to control the CO2 without a burner or tank AND a controller.  You can try all you want, but it is not going to work.  Some things are possible and some things aren't.


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## nouvellechef

You are gonna ultimately decide your fate man. I must say this though. Looking thru some of our pics, old and new. Can you really sit there and think, "hey, these guys don't know what they speak of"? Some of us, in the past and present grew for a living man. Your telling other ppl in other posts about using Miracle grow moisture control??? You are either

A- Someone who is a little bat ****

B-An old member with a axe to grind

Either way. You giving advice in posts, is not productive to new growers. So think real hard about what you post. I can assure you that most of it is so far off base, its crazy man...


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## NorCalHal

911reagan said:
			
		

> I understand what youre saying but with a completely sealed room ethylene accumulates which is not good. im going to at the very least try this setup and if it doesn't work back to the drawing board. how ever I am determined to find a way to manage co2 levels without a tank or burner. but thanks for your input youre one of the more constructive users on this forum


 
Your trippin' on the ethylene man. You can't be serious right?

My room has been sealed, without exchanging air for over 2 years! If there was a build up of ethylene, which is a flammable gas, would have blown up.
It is not a factor what so ever bro.

Trust me, my plants love my sealed room.


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## Hushpuppy

Hey Hal :ciao: Do you ever have to ventilate to equalize pressure or anything like that or are you able to continually maintain the co2/o2 cycle within your growing space? I would think that would be more difficult to maintain in smaller grows. I am planning on expanding to a 24'x40' sometime this year and was thinking about going total sealed and generating my co2 with the cooled commercial burner. Do you think that size space would be any problem to maintain?


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## Hushpuppy

Hey Hal, just read your co2 thread and answered my  questions. Thanks


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## trillions of atoms

This is ******* redundant!  If this IS an old member he needs to understand "real world conditions" not the **** "in theory".   PERIOD.


No offense 911... But you have had ALL THE HELP YOU WILL EVER GET out of this thread and this forum. I've been here for YEARS, growing for YEARS not on "paper". I NEVER speak from thoughts only EXPERIENCE and have NEVER steered a new grower wrong.

You need to shut up and learn or get the fk off the forum.


Simply put??


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## 911reagan

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> You are gonna ultimately decide your fate man. I must say this though. Looking thru some of our pics, old and new. Can you really sit there and think, "hey, these guys don't know what they speak of"? Some of us, in the past and present grew for a living man. Your telling other ppl in other posts about using Miracle grow moisture control??? You are either
> 
> A- Someone who is a little bat ****
> 
> B-An old member with a axe to grind
> 
> Either way. You giving advice in posts, is not productive to new growers. So think real hard about what you post. I can assure you that most of it is so far off base, its crazy man...



honestly i didnt think organic nutes were the way to go for a beginner. miracle gro has readily available nutes that can be leached out through flushing come harvest.also it has polyacrylate which prevents over watering. i recommended the simplest setup for a noob:

cfl lights
small cups
12/12 from seed
the importance of ventilation, not only for heat.
soil with readily available nutes and over/underwatering protection

and advised him to measure twice cut once do his research before continuing
not once have i recommended this setup for a beginner. the worst that can happen if some one who knows what their doing is they buy 5$ worth of silica beads. whoopdie doo.


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## 911reagan

trillions of atoms said:
			
		

> This is ******* redundant!  If this IS an old member he needs to understand "real world conditions" not the **** "in theory".   PERIOD.
> 
> 
> No offense 911... But you have had ALL THE HELP YOU WILL EVER GET out of this thread and this forum. I've been here for YEARS, growing for YEARS not on "paper". I NEVER speak from thoughts only EXPERIENCE and have NEVER steered a new grower wrong.
> 
> You need to shut up and learn or get the fk off the forum.
> 
> 
> Simply put??



in my experience telling a new grower to start brewing teas and setting up hps lights and buying propane burners and 200$ co2 tanks with over 1000$ worth of fittings monitors fans and doodads is a recipe for DISASTER


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## 911reagan

multifarious said:
			
		

> Your experience is rather limited, if we can believe a single word you post
> 
> 
> 02-15-13


grow again i should have said. iov been growing since 2001 off and on. my blueberry has been in flowering since april 21 with a 2 day dark period starting on the 21st. trichs are 5% amber, 70% cloudy and 25% clear. should be getting around 10-16 oz plant is 3 feet tall under a 600 watt super hps with 30 watts blue spectrum. 600w mh will be used for last week and a half and reptile lamps will be added for their uv spectrum. soil used was ocean forest mixed with seedling mix and fed molasses on the initial watering before revegging and every other watering after that. watered with 5-1-1 alaskan fish twice during veg that had been brewing for 3 weeks in a food safe 5 gallon bucket with a 20 watt 45 lpm commercial air pump with 6 inch bubble disc. the flowering cycle received 0-5-0 cave bat guano also aerated with the bubbledisc and both solutions were fed table spoon of molasses to feed microbes. gull wing reflector is being used and walls are covered with reflectix which is mylar on bubble wrap. light lsting was done and super cropping the plant has 5- 6 main colas. revegg began in late january. plants were watered to keep root temps between 70-75 degrees with an aquarium heater. havent had one pest problem the entire 2 grows of this blue berry plant but i was goign to buy lady bugs. super thrive was added twice during veg , air had constantly been circulating and only problem was a slight trace nutrient deficiency because water with a ppm of <6 has been used all grow. this was remedied with trace nutes from the hydro store and cleared up in 2 weeks.temps have ranged from 70-81 farenheit and rh has been between 45-59%. water was phed to 6.3 the entire grow and run off range was from 5.9 to 6.5 but was stablized during veg and i havent had any deviation from 6.2-6.4 since.
estimated harvest will be june12th-june20th


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## 911reagan

pcduck said:
			
		

> 911reagan who are you really?
> 
> Kind of sounds like you are a former, disgruntle member.
> 
> 
> 
> Not as long as you keep posting crap.
> 
> Now lets talk about trouble maker...Was I the one then sent out nasty pm's?... No...Did 911reagan send out nasty pm's?.. Yes...Who came on to the BHC with their first 2 posts as a member here spewing stuff about witchcraft and practicing witchcraft.....So before you call me a trouble maker maybe you should point your finger at yourself.
> 
> Hey at least you did not say I was wrong about your set-up and how messed up it is.



 i dont recall sending you anything , and my first two posts were and i quote
"whats all the faffle about?"
i recieved said reply from 7 green eyes:

welcome to Marijuana Passion, 911reagan.

Here take this  and sit a spell...:bong: 

to which i replied: "i dont practice witch craft anymore but thanks"

contrary to what you may think, the world doesnt revolve around you.

you werent even part of that conversation. you have smoked yourself paranoid. its only a matter of time before you start smearing mayonnaise on your windows to keep the fbi out of your thoughts.

im ignoring you from now on. and honestly thats the worst thing anyone could do to you.


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## 911reagan

multifarious said:
			
		

> Good for you, I'm sure looking forward to seeing pictures of your blueberries and your completed recirculating co2 cab



in time friend blueberry pics by june 20th if i get 50% amber 50% cloudy by the 15th( i prefer couch lock). co2 recirculating box may be a ways down the road im aiming for july and will immediately begin testing. note that im not going to try and prove the effectiveness of a certain method of producing co2 but im aiming to keep ppm below 1200 at all times and for the ppm to not drop to concentrations of the air outside of the grow box. basically it will be a test without any plants to see if i can run that setup while maintaining a stable concentration while venting heat. im betting on the fact that co2 is so dense and wont be sucked out through the top fan and my criteria for success are as follows:
temps below 90 but above 85 farenheit
co2 concentration that remains stable and doesnt drop down to ambient air concentrations
rh below 60% but above 45%

if after trying everything i cannot achieve all three goals i will make a birds beak pie and eat crow, with pics


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## 911reagan

multifarious said:
			
		

> /\ YAWN /\
> 
> Been growing since 2001 and your posting crap about baking soda/vinegar, yeast/sugar co2 production, yep your a class act
> 
> I'm soooooooo looking forward to seeing those pictures   but can't understand why we have to wait until harvest ?



i dont grow for a living i grow for fun and dont worry there will be post it notes next to the buds scale etc before during and after harvest. im going to put 911 reagan but if you dont believe me you can make a request and il write that down as proof that im not using pics from elsewhere. and yes i have ... off and on. i have 8 grows under my belt, have been around alot of growers and have read alot of books done alot of research. i dont think a 200$ tank is justifiable and the cost to get it refilled every couple weeks is 16-up to 50$ depending on where you grow, then to get it hydro tested i just never saw the allure of lugging around a huge cylinder especially with neighbors. i dont like the idea of propane burners either but that is my personal preference and you can yawn all you want all youre doing is increasing oxygen to your brain. i simply wanted to make those "inferior" methods of co2 production more feasible and even if they are not this is an alternative method of using co2 tanks/ propane burners and will increase efficiency compared to a timed exhaust system and be equivalent to a sealed room minus ethylene. another thing to note ethylene is a class 3 carcinogen and venting and filtering that with carbon may also have health benefits in the long run.


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## 911reagan

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Your trippin' on the ethylene man. You can't be serious right?
> 
> My room has been sealed, without exchanging air for over 2 years! If there was a build up of ethylene, which is a flammable gas, would have blown up.
> It is not a factor what so ever bro.
> 
> Trust me, my plants love my sealed room.



while ethylene is flammable i have yet to see a clutch of bananas burst into flames from smoking a cig near them. the problem with ethylene build up is it causes earlier ripening. im sure if you are running hids, proper nutes, co2 everything goes down without a hitch it might not even be noticeable. the only way to tell is a control experiment with 2 clones from the same mother, two seperate rooms with the exact same conditions rh temps air flow light intensity measured with a lux meter etc.

however there are some benefits of ethylene in that they cause plants grown from seed to lean towards expressing the y gene when exposed. this is another experiment altogether though


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## pcduck

911reagan...sure seems you forget a lot of stuff when it suits your needs.

Check your sent pm's for 5-12-2013 @ 6:37am titled *fiif*

Yeah  you showed up at the BHC at about the same time it takes for a person to re-register after being banned for trolling. I think 911reagan was like your 3rd or 4th persona that day after being banned repeatedly earlier. The first and only time THG has had to clean up the BHC. I am sure we all remember even if you don't.


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## pcduck

911reagan said:
			
		

> in my experience telling a new grower to start brewing teas and setting up hps lights and buying propane burners and 200$ co2 tanks with over 1000$ worth of fittings monitors fans and doodads is a recipe for DISASTER



I would rather learn about stuff that works and not about crap that does not work like your recirculation co2 junk.


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## Growdude

911reagan said:
			
		

> and that is the equivalent of doing nothing. a 20 lb tank wont last more than 2 weeks if you're doing it right


 
Would you like to back that up with any FACTS?
I see you like to drop the subject when there is no discussion about it.
But still spout your misinformation.


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## pcduck

Growdude said:
			
		

> Would you like to back that up with any FACTS?



He has none, zero, zilth, nada.

The mathematical formulas are wrong, the calculator is wrong. Everyone is wrong but 911reagan.


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## 911reagan

Growdude said:
			
		

> Would you like to back that up with any FACTS?
> I see you like to drop the subject when there is no discussion about it.
> But still spout your misinformation.



first of all , only food grade co2 is 100% co2, that and welding supply stores

second that calculator only takes into effect how many cfh it takes to reach your optimal co2 concentration in an HOUR.

and thirdly if you know someone who gets 437 days out of a 20 lb co2 tank give me his number cause i want some ******* pixie magic for my grow too


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## NorCalHal

Food grade CO2?

What is considered "food grade" is actually 99.9% while industial grade is 99%.

The plants can't tell, it is only for home brewing.

Your thinking way too much man.


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## 911reagan

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Food grade CO2?
> 
> What is considered "food grade" is actually 99.9% while industial grade is 99%.
> 
> The plants can't tell, it is only for home brewing.
> 
> Your thinking way too much man.




the only industrial grade that is near food grade is from welding supply stores, impurities in gas means sloppy welds, alot of times at your local beer distributor it will have a decent quantity of nitrogen in it. the other option is food grade, mostly because it has glass lined cylinder walls but it is very close to 100% co2.


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## Growdude

911reagan said:
			
		

> first of all , only food grade co2 is 100% co2
> 
> second that calculator only takes into effect how many cfh it takes to reach your optimal co2 concentration in an HOUR.
> 
> and thirdly if you know someone who gets 437 days out of a 20 lb co2 tank give me his number cause i want some ******* pixie magic for my grow too


 
So you dont.
It does not only figure how many cfh it takes to reach optimum co2 in a hour.
It figures how long to release Co2 at ANY cfh to reach 1500 ppm.
It also calculates how long a 20lb Co2 tank or 5 gallons of propane will last.
Thats why no matter what cfh you enter the total tank time stays the same.
Only the room size will change that.

Your only 45 cubic feet use some common sense. 
Your releasing for 3 min @1 cubic foot an hour every 3 hours, thats 24 min per day.
Now I know these calculators figure your room is completely sealed and cant figure plants consumption but thats why its replaced every 3 hours.


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## 911reagan

Growdude said:
			
		

> So you dont.
> It does not only figure how many cfh it takes to reach optimum co2 in a hour.
> It figures how long to release Co2 at ANY cfh to reach 1500 ppm.
> It also calculates how long a 20lb Co2 tank or 5 gallons of propane will last.
> Thats why no matter what cfh you enter the total tank time stays the same.
> Only the room size will change that.
> 
> Your only 45 cubic feet use some common sense.
> Your releasing for 3 min @1 cubic foot an hour every 3 hours, thats 24 min per day.
> Now I know these calculators figure your room is completely sealed and cant figure plants consumption but thats why its replaced every 3 hours.



which is why a calculator is pointless in the first place. you dont want it to reach 1500(in my case 1100) right away you want it to take 1/6th of an hour or 10 minutes to reach that level. if you have a monitor, solenoid valve and a controller there really is no need to use a calculator. that calculator simply will not be able to calculate rate of photsynthesis for every individual grow room . most 20 lb co2 tanks run out within the month that is right along the curve of the parabola and this talk about a tank lasting a year and a half is malarkay at best


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## pcduck

> pointless in the first place.



Like your co2 grow box.



> you dont want it to reach 1500(in my case 1100)



What make you so special? and Why?



> if you have a monitor, solenoid valve and a controller there really is no need to use a calculator.



That is the smartest thing you have said in your 56 posts so far. But there again you don't have to be to smart to figure that one out:rofl:



> simply will not be able to calculate rate of photsynthesis for every individual grow room



:doh:...Nothing can ...:doh:

IMO I would rather do it right instead of using some piece of junk like your co2 growbox.

You are also wrong about the function of co2 while welding also but that is a whole different story.:laugh:


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## SmokinMom

ostpicsworthless:


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## trillions of atoms

You lost me at a "sealed"  / "vented" grow box...

Which is it?  Lmao


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## 911reagan

trillions of atoms said:
			
		

> You lost me at a "sealed"  / "vented" grow box...
> 
> Which is it?  Lmao



the part holding co2 will be sealed from all leaks, and since co2 is a very dense gas it tends to pool on the bottom, only the very top of the box is vented with a small 50 cfm fan to keep temps under 90 and above 85. and i honestly cannot understand people citing a co2 "calculator" for the longevity of a co2 tank. the problem with that calculator is it only takes into account the length of time it takes to enrich the room to your desired ppm, and i guarantee you you are not going to stay at that ppm for 3 hours. grow douche states in a 45 cu ft room to reach 1100 ppm at 24 hrs a day with the cfh set at 1 per hour it will fill up the room in 3 minutes and last for 3 hours. not only that he claims a 20 lb co2 tank will last a year and a half! like i told him, do your math . it really isnt hard on the same level as any 5th grader and to rely on a calculator that isnt remotely accurate is asking for trouble. take into account non sealed grow rooms with exhaust timers or monitors and you wouldnt even want your cfh at 1 you would want it to enrich the room in the quickest amount of time possible, the highest cfh setting. for a timer you woudl want the highest cfh sensor with the lowest integer of time to fill it.


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## trillions of atoms

You can't have a sealed / vented box... I know what you were *trying* to say.


Anyone giving you days of a tank lasting is not citing math... Expierence.


You don't want c02 on the floor, u want it at canopy level falling from above.


Jeez


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## nouvellechef

Lets all just sit back and watch what happens. He got recommendations. It's up to him/her to produce results. Best of luck.


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## NorCalHal

911reagan said:
			
		

> the part holding co2 will be sealed from all leaks, and since co2 is a very dense gas it tends to pool on the bottom, only the very top of the box is vented with a small 50 cfm fan to keep temps under 90 and above 85..


 

That's where your trippin' man. CO2 ain't that heavy, it's not like it is going to "pool" on the floor man. That 50 cfm fan will exhaust all your gas, so your room is not sealed..at all.


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## zem

lol good read... so how did the experiment of the duct taped room with ethylene exhaust sugar yeast co2 generator and recirculator, and miracle-grow fertilizer go? did they grow like magic beans? or was that guy banned already?


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## 7greeneyes

Where's my fwapping emoticon? With as much time as I burned reading this...I could of put it to better use  :rofl: :stoned: :bolt:


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