# Jack the Giant Cloner - Cloning from the top down



## Hackerman (Mar 19, 2016)

I have some skunk mothers that are totally out of control. Only 2 plants and they fill a 3x5 tent. LOL My standard MO is to clone a mother and then flower her. However, this time I want to run 2 crops from the mothers and so I want to keep them going for another 9 weeks while this crop flowers.

So, I thought I would try something new. Instead of cloning from the bottom up, I decided to clone from the top down. I know this is, chemically, incorrect but I wanted to reduce the height of these mothers so I took from the top.

The funny part was what to do with the very top of the plants. LOL I didn't want to just toss the tops so I put each of them in 1 gallon pots and we'll see if I can root the worlds largest clone. LOL

I am curious how this turns out. I usually have 100% luck with cloning so I don't expect much less this time. We'll see.

Here are a couple before and after shots. 

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## WeedHopper (Mar 19, 2016)

How do those grow like that in a 3rd world Country. :rofl:


Nice job Bro.


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## Rosebud (Mar 20, 2016)

wow, cloning big mojo hackerman... keep us posted.. sativas..yum


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## RubyRed (Mar 20, 2016)

I have cloned the tops of many strains with great success


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## Hackerman (Mar 22, 2016)

I threw in a twist, yesterday.

I took one of the 2 giant clones and put it in the T5 flower tent at 12/12. We'll see how well it roots under the 12/12 compared to the one in the 18/6 veg tent.


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## Hackerman (Mar 23, 2016)

Here is some pretty solid data and a possible contributor as to why some of you are having trouble cloning.....

Check out the pics. The first 2 shots are 10 clones I took from my Sleestack Skunk mothers and used Indole-3-butyric acid as the rooting hormone.

The second 2 pics are 10 more clones taken from the same mothers and cut, trimmed dipped and planted in exactly the same way and in the same medium as the first 10 EXCEPT... I used 1-Naphthaleneacetamide and Thira as the rooting hormone.

As you can see, every one of the Indole-3-butyric acid clones is suffering from wilt and they look sad and unhappy while the 1-Naphthaleneacetamide and Thira clones are perky and happy looking. I'm sure I saw a smile on one or two of them. LOL

Just tossing this out because the difference is soooooo obvious in looking at the 2 examples. And, the only difference between the 2 was the rooting hormone.

And, Indole-3-butyric acid is the primary (or only) ingredient in almost every rooting hormone I looked at except the Rootone that I have used for a zillion years. 

Here's a thread with a little info that will save me some repeat typing. For you people who were complaining about having cloning problems...... What's in your rooting hormone?

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=69050 

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## Hackerman (Mar 28, 2016)

Well, the Indole-3-butyric acid clones finally perked up today. You can tell they are not as happy as the 1-Naphthaleneacetamide and Thira cuttings but I'm sure they will be OK.

The 2 giant tops are doing fair. The one at 12/12 is doing better than the 18/6 but, it's only been about 10 days so we'll see where roots start showing in a few more days. I have no domes for the 2 giants so they have been barefootin' it all along.

I put another twist in motion today. I decided that I really liked how one of these Satori phenos is maturing and I decided to take a clone. At 4 weeks and 2 days_ [EDIT actually, it is 5 weeks and 2 days]_ into 12/12, this is about as late as I have ever tried to take a clone. LOL I took a little underdeveloped branch from under the canopy and put it with the other clone cuttings.



It never ceases to amaze me how hardy and vigorous cannabis really is. And, these Satori seem to be mighty cloners. My last batch rooted like I have never seen before. I guess we'll see how she does.

I'll post a couple pics tomorrow.


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## Rosebud (Mar 29, 2016)

This is very cool Hackerman. I am staying with you on this. my guess is the ones in flower won't do well, lets see if that is true.  Asking a plant to grow roots and bloom at the same times seems like asking a lot. 

I have used every rooting hormone there is, at the moment I am liking Rootech. They have side by side comparison on youtube..

Keep us posted Hackerman. Hey, are you the guy that broke into the phone for the government?  Good job! lol


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## WeedHopper (Mar 29, 2016)

Keep up the good work my friend.


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## Hackerman (Mar 29, 2016)

Rosie, Rootech is another Indole-3-butyric acid hormone. It contains a 0.05% concentration in a base of 10% to 30% Propylene Glycol and the rest is probably water or some other filler.

The funny thing is, they made a mistake when they submitted their MSDS report (I can't believe people miss stuff like this. LOL) and called it indol-3-butanic acid. 

The Propylene Glycol is considered "organic" but it is the same product they use in Anti-freeze and brake fluid for cars. It has a toxic dose on both rabbits and rats. And, it is used in everything from dog food to cosmetics. Pretty versatile stuff. Also, very controversial. 

I have yet to find a rooting hormone that is different from any other. Other than the Root tone, they all seem to be the same.

I'm not sure that it has anything to do with the overall picture but I have been using it for years and almost always have a 100% success cloning.

We'll see how this turns out. I put these cuttings through some pretty tough tests. LOL


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## Hackerman (Mar 29, 2016)

I took a couple shots today. The first is the Naphthaleneacetamide and Thira clones and the second are the Indole-3-butyric acid clones. I think they will all root fine you can see they are just not 100% happy like the girls next door.

3rd shot is the giant clone at 18/6 and 4th shot is the 12/12 giant clone.

Next is the Satori clone I took yesterday. And, I need to go back and correct my post. These plants were not 4 weeks and 2 days into flowering. They were FIVE weeks and 2 days into flowering. I figure if she doesn't root, I'll re-veg one of the others fr cloning.

Look at the last shot and you can see why I want to keep this pheno. The old pheno is in the rear and is so tall it outgrew the lamp height. However, this other pheno stays nice and short. They didn't hardly stretch 6 inches when I flipped to 12/12. Not easy to get a good sativa this short. 

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## lyfespan (Mar 30, 2016)

looking great in here hackerman.

i gave up on the dome cloners and had to go aeroponic when taking 200 cuts it just made more sense, lol.

btw i have taken flowering cuts all the way up to harvest and they root faster from 12/12, but you do have to wait the reveg out . but i have saved some great girls that way


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## Hackerman (Apr 2, 2016)

Wow.... root city.

2 weeks to the day and about half of these are rooting like crazy. I imagine the other half are right behind. Probably transplant these in another week.

I know clear cups are a no-no but it's so nice to see what's going on inside. I'll (hopefully) have them all transplanted before there is any root damage from the light.

In any event, it didn't seem to make much difference to go from the top down or from the bottom up. 2 weeks and it looks like 100%.

I have not seen any roots come out of the bottom of the 2 giant clones and I can't see through the black pots. But the plants are doing well so we should see in another week or so.

Thanks for the good mojo... it worked.  

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## lyfespan (Apr 2, 2016)

Hackerman said:


> Wow.... root city.
> 
> 2 weeks to the day and about half of these are rooting like crazy. I imagine the other half are right behind. Probably transplant these in another week.
> 
> ...



whoohoo hyphes. dont worry about the see through cups they are awesome for observational purposes, you just have to remember to put that see through one into another non see through solo cup. this will block the light and act as a reservoir and catch.
 just a lil trick from another member.


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## Hackerman (Apr 2, 2016)

Thanks bud. I'll do that.


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## bud88 (Apr 4, 2016)

Some very interesting stuff you've got going HM.  Is the Satori that you said hardly stretched the one that resembles mine from the other thread? Reason I ask is mine stretched about the same also.


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## Hackerman (Apr 4, 2016)

You can see the difference in the last pic a couple posts up.

One pheno stretched to twice it's size after 12/12 flip while the pheno that looks like yours did not stretch at all.

It looks like lack of stretch is going to result in a lot lower yield (which makes sense). Lots of lower buds. I'll have a giant bubble hash run with this pheno.

Question 88..... Are you using HPS or T5 lights? I ask because I notice a difference in the bud formation under the HPS vs the T5. Now that the plants are under the HPS, the buds are forming more like buds with less leaf matter. Maybe it's just timing or maybe it's the light source.


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## bud88 (Apr 5, 2016)

Flowering under 1000 watt HPS


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## bud88 (Apr 5, 2016)

I will take a couple of shots of the last Satori I have in flower right after the lights go off..clone from the same mother and is at 37 days of 12/12. She stretched a bit more than the others did.  I figure it might be because I am only feeding this one organic bloom tea(premix was also amended with seabird guano 0-7-0) where as the others were fed the full synthetic Advanced Nutrients expert regimen.


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## Hackerman (Apr 5, 2016)

Just FYI.... It has been 17 days since I cloned these and today is the first time I have watered the cups.

I pre-soak the cups for a few days before cloning so they are nice and soaked. I use 50/50 Fox Farms Happy frog and Light Warrior for soil.

The soil has stayed moist without any water up until now. Today I lifted the cups and about half of them were light enough that I knew they were ready for water.

Prior to this, the only water they received was the spray that I would do 3 or 4 or 5 times a day.

Domes on all night and off and on most of the day until now. In another day or 2, I'll leave the domes off for good.

In a week or so, they go into 3 quart pots for vegging.

Looks like another 100% so far on the little ones. No roots so far on the big ones and the soil is still moist enough to not water. I'm going to crack up when I see some giant root coming out of the bottom of one of the giant clone pots. LOL


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## lyfespan (Apr 5, 2016)

Hackerman said:


> Well, the Indole-3-butyric acid clones finally perked up today. You can tell they are not as happy as the 1-Naphthaleneacetamide and Thira cuttings but I'm sure they will be OK.
> 
> The 2 giant tops are doing fair. The one at 12/12 is doing better than the 18/6 but, it's only been about 10 days so we'll see where roots start showing in a few more days. I have no domes for the 2 giants so they have been barefootin' it all along.
> 
> ...



just saw this was for satori, duh. have 3 very nice looking satori haze F2s going right now looks to be 2 phenos. 2 looking standard issuse satty, but one has really really thin leaves and isnt stretching as much? all 3 were very quick rooters in the cloner, 3 days earlier than other cuts taken on the same day


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## Hackerman (Apr 6, 2016)

Couple things. Just for the record, the domes stayed off last night and I had zero wilt overnight so for me.... the domes stay off from now on.

The root growth is amazing for just over 2 weeks old but the thing that is really amazing is that the Satori clipping that I took from the Satori that was 5 weeks into flower. This clone is only 8 days old and it has giant roots coming out of the side and bottom of the cup already.

These Satori are definitely mighty rooters.


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## Hackerman (Apr 8, 2016)

3 weeks tomorrow and I felt they had enough roots to transplant. I even transplanted the flowering Satori clone, even though it's only about a week old. LOL 

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## Rosebud (Apr 9, 2016)

I think you might be a big show off and i am jealous.  Awesome Hackerman, really.. that is fast roots.


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## Hackerman (Apr 9, 2016)

What? Everyone posts pictures of their plants. Why is it that when I do it, I am showing off?

Well, OK, maybe a little bit. LOL

Hey, it's not my fault these Satori are fast rooters. LOL

I do have a problem... more emotional than biological. What to do with the Mothers. 

I just don't have room. Neither is real real healthy. I don't think they are worth the 10 weeks to flower them. I have other plans for the flowering room.

I hate to mulch plants. Even small ones. I would have to use hedge clippers to cut these down. LOL

If I were in a legal state I could make a zillion clones and give them away but I don't want to spend a couple years making license plates just because I can't mulch a Mom plant. LOL I could run an ad on Craigslist FREE CLONES. LOL

What do I do with these? 

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## Rosebud (Apr 9, 2016)

Oh honey, that is so hard. Mothers never work out very well for me either.. It is so hard. I remember the first rose bush i culled. it kinda screamed when i pulled her up...i understand. I clone from clone now and don't do moms. Good luck.


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## Sin inc (Apr 15, 2016)

hey hackerman sorry to hear about your ladies. i know the feeling started off with 16 girls at first. now iam down to 9


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## Hackerman (Apr 19, 2016)

4 weeks and a couple days for the skunk.

Poor little Satori still going through re-veg. She rooted nicely for a flowering clone. 

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## lyfespan (Apr 20, 2016)

Hackerman said:


> 4 weeks and a couple days for the skunk.
> 
> Poor little Satori still going through re-veg. She rooted nicely for a flowering clone.



i find they root a lil easier as supercrop cuttings(from a flowering plant)


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## Hackerman (Apr 20, 2016)

Really? I wonder what the chemistry is, behind that.


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## lyfespan (Apr 20, 2016)

Hackerman said:


> Really? I wonder what the chemistry is, behind that.



NPK for bloom is better for rooting

oh and to all that say you have to baby a reveg, low nutes and crap like that, to you i say phooey, i chop em, dump bat guano on them and toss under 24 hour light and water as usual. have my reveg times way down.


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## Hackerman (May 16, 2016)

Well, the Satori reveg is coming along nicely. I was going to trim it but since it's just a mother, I figure the more branches, the better.

I added a couple more oddities to the tent.

I tried leaf cloning. Not sure if pot will do the or not. I often leaf clone my African Violets and my aloe and it works pretty well. Albeit, the Aloe is leaf cloned without petiole and the violets (and this pot plant) were done leaf with petiole. It's been a few days since these pics and the leaf is rotting nicely but so far, no sign of new growth at the base of the petiole. The leaf is a single leaf from the re-vegging Satori. The Petiole was about 3" long.

The sideways plant is awesome. In less than 12 hours, the branches were almost all pointing straight up. Pot sure seems to be phototropic to the extreme. I'll post an updated pic so you can see. It sure makes watering and maintaining the soil nice and easy. LOL Not a great usage of space.

The little girl is a CH9 Seeds Blue Lemon Thai. She's the only normal one in the tent right now. LOL

EDIT: Oh yeah, one more thing..... I have fungus gnats.  

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## Rosebud (May 16, 2016)

I hate those gnats. A layer of DE on top of the dirt will help a lot. so would watering from the bottom. I have them too. I don't understand how the gnats live in the soil when it is dry in the bag..how does that happen? Is that a hoya leaf?  WT heck is with the sideways plant? how did you do that?


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## Hackerman (May 17, 2016)

Rosebud said:


> I hate those gnats. A layer of DE on top of the dirt will help a lot. so would watering from the bottom. I have them too. I don't understand how the gnats live in the soil when it is dry in the bag..how does that happen? Is that a hoya leaf?  WT heck is with the sideways plant? how did you do that?



I bought some DE, Wow, don't forget to turn the oscillating fan off before you take a big scoop of this out of the bag. LMAO... the fan hit this stuff and filled my room with a white cloud. LOL

I am trying the DE. I also bought some Mosquito Bits that I'll try next (if I have to).

The leaf is a single leaf from the re-vegging Satori plant. I don't expect a lot from that. LOL

The sideways plant is just playing around, I had 4 clones left over that wouldn't fit in my flowering room. I gave 2 to a friend and didn't know what to do with the last 2. So, I planted one sideways and left the other vertical. Just for S&G, I guess. Looks like the sideways plant is greening up better than the vertical plant. And, maintenance is really sweet. If this method wasn't a space hog, I would try an entire grow like this. 

It all boils down to me having some extra room in the tent for now. I was re-vegging the Satori as a mother for my next crop and I just hated to see her sit there all alone. So, I popped that CH9 Blue Lemon Thai and kept the last 2 Sleestack clones. Unfortunately, I doubt anything in this tent will ever see the flower room.  Clones of all of them, yes. Mothers....  

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## Rosebud (May 18, 2016)

I think you have found a new way to grow sideways. LOL... I can see your next  horizontal grow!! That would be very funny.  I think your on to something... love it Hackerman.


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## Hackerman (Jun 20, 2016)

These sideways plants turned out kind of cool. I really don't have room for them in the flower room so I may have to mulch these but I hate to see 2 healthy plants go to mulch.

I must admit, trimming and caring for the dirt sure is easy this way. 

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## Hackerman (Jun 20, 2016)

The little Sleestack Skunk clones sure grew up fast. About 2 weeks until harvest.

I really don't like the fluffy buds but both crops I did of this Skunk were fluffy so I guess it's just the strain. 

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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jun 21, 2016)

them nuggies look good from my seat Hacker... :48: easiest way to rid yourself of the gnats is mosquito bits... not the dunks...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0001AUF8G/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20    you need to put the bits into water for 24-48 hours then ph & water all pots...  the bits will not completely dissolve and were no issue when left on top of my soil...  I continued to just water with the bits in the soil and gnats were gone quick...


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