# Major light problem. Advanced grower advice needed



## Grow A Nug (Jan 17, 2010)

Hi all    

I have been put in charge to find the best possible solutions for our problem with our very small medical coop grow.

We have a light problem in our booming room.  It is *not* a new setup but we need to increase the light. We dont feel we have very good lighting outside 3-1/2 feet of our garden bed and our yield is suffering about 8 inches on the edges as well as along the center in spots length wise.  Our bed is 5 foot wide x 15 foot long, soil, organic 14 deep.  

We have 2 portable mylar covered walls so we  put them right up to the plants that are up against the other 2 stationary walls.  It helped some but not enough. We are still suffering on yield. 

We have considered a special kind of light mover that is not a rail type.  With the way we are setup we cannot have the lights move on a rail system. Our hoods are daisy chained together with ice boxes and a high end inline fan attached to the end.  Maybe a rotating light mover might work? But it cannot turn round and round. It would have to turn 180 and then go back the other way to get a swing effect. We dont know where we can get one that would operate this way. Our ceiling is on a 5/12 pitch which is also a challenge for sativa strains and with a light mover and hardware we may loose to much height. 


For the most part money is not an issue with them to get this up and running properly. They dont want to change the main setup (less the lights or a mover or both) as it is working perfectly.  They have no problem replacing all the lights, adding more or upgrading to side lighting.

We are running an enclosed environment so no air in or out. It is also co-2 enriched. 

At this time we cannot increase our grow bed size. We can cool the lights with our system even if we are to use 1000 watt super high intensity lights with our current system.

Here is what we currently are running light wise

® Cool Sun XL 8 hoods Gasketed and sealed with 8 ice boxes attached and daisy chained. 
® 4 Super HPS 600 watt high output horticulture bulbs. We did this because we read where 600 watt lights can be closer to the plants and actually would be as efficient as 1000 watt lights further away, so thats why we chose those lights. We obviously made a mistake thinking they would cover 5 feet wide.  
® Max fan 10  1025 fpm to effectively cool the 4 hoods for return air into the room. Works fantastic by the way. Dont loose a drop of CO-2 and also replaces the air conditioner. It cools even on low speed so we definitely could increase wattage if need be. 

What I have gathered so far but dont want them upset at me

I could use 4 1000 watt hps but I think they only cover about 4 square, maybe with the portable walls  being up against the plants that would work?  but then again they need to be 24 inches above the canopy due to radiant heat from what I have been told.  Even with ice boxes attached it still will not affect the radiant heat. Radiant heat cannot be eliminated by air flow.  The 600 watt lights are only 10 inches from the canopy and dont burn the plants. We understood that for every 6 of light height you loose ½ the light intensity. We have raised them up higher but are loosing our canopy penetration so that must be true.  We thought by raising the lights we would get broader lighting which we did,  just to week. 

I also have considered mounting the best high output florescent lights around the perimeter of the walls. Like a few 5 tube or 8 tube, all the way around the garden bed at 3 to 4 feet. 

I have also considered the newer 750 watt lights and using 4 of those but I am not sure if they will cover the 5 feet as well.  Im also limited to GE bulbs.  I kind of like the horilux bulbs due to the very high lumen output in super hps almost 150,000 for the 1000 watt.  

We really need advice from an advance grower here that has a lot of experience. If thats you please respond if you have the time. It would be greatly appreciated. We are nearing 3 weeks into bloom now, so sooner the better. Thanks again. 

Happy growing 

Grow-A-Nug


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## nouvellechef (Jan 17, 2010)

You are at that 5k lumens a sq ft or close. So you are running a CO2 generator? What's your PPM for the room? So the 10" can fan pushes air into the hoods from outside and does not exit out the room? Throw some pics up.

Edit: Whats a ice box?


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## Jericho (Jan 17, 2010)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Edit: Whats a ice box?


Its a cooling fan. from what i understand

Info:  It consists of a high-quality heat-exchanger with a strong molded plastic housing. One side of the housing is designed to install over a 6" air-cooled reflector duct flange, and as an option the opposite side can be attached to 8" air ducting (depending on inline fan placement). Air from your indoor garden is either pushed or pulled through the reflectors with an inline fan and then passed over the Ice Box heat exchanger. Cold water is circulated through the heat exchanger, cooling the air before it exits right back into the indoor garden area.


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## NorCalHal (Jan 18, 2010)

I would change the lights to all 1000 watters. Effective grow area for a 1000w is 4x4, but I have had sucessful grow areas around 5' usuing 1000w, but multiple lights.

So, for a 5x15 area, use 4-1000 w lights just the way you have it, daisychained and aircooled.

If your aircooling is effective, then you can place your lights 12-18" over the canopy with no ill effect. Mind you, some strains or more sensitive to heavy lumens then others, and you will get what is called "bleaching" og the plant, meaning it weill actually turn yellow/white from light intensity.

Light rails and movers are not worth the money at all imo. If you got the loot for a light mover to cover more of an area, then you have money for another light to really cover that area. 

Living in the Northwest, I am sure you have PLENTY of cool fresh air for your intake, so air exchange is critical.

With your CO2, what method are you usuing? Bottled and regulated or a Burner? What type of regulator do you have?

IF you change to all 1000w, then I think you will have no issue with the 5' "width" and will have plenty of light to cover the whole area well.


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## nouvellechef (Jan 18, 2010)

Ahh, I see. I really like those heat exchangers now that I have seen them. Man more coin.

PS, I agree with above. More light=More bud

Edit: How many grams per watt are you getting with current setup?


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## Mr.Wakenbake (Jan 18, 2010)

NorCalHal has hit the nail on the head. What you have is a space ,that while any modest grower would love to have 4 600's in a 5 x15 in, you really don't have enough penetration. 

I would like to know more about how many plants you have packed into a 5x15. Your problem overall may not be a lack of light but a lack of penetration. 

Stuffing a room full of plants to the brim, no matter how many lumens you pump in there won't get you the same results as giving them some space and letting the light penetrate the canopy further.  

4 x 600 w  = about 392,000 lumens  and a lot less light penetration(intensity)  than say even 3 , 1k watt lights
3 x 1000w= about  432,000 -450,000 lumens depending on the bulb. 

Now that may not seem like a huge difference, however the difference comes in light penetration . I think you have a few options here to fix the problem.

Most expensive option, is to go get all 1kers,  either 3 or 4. I would suggest 4.

Least expensive option is to thin out the number of plants in the room to allow proper penetration and rotate the outside plants every few days to the center of the room to ensure proper exposure to the more direct intense light.



What  I would do, if it were me would be to go the least expensive route first.  I wouldn't fool with light movers at all if I didn't have to. Just more expense not necessary unless you just have a huge room, which you dont, and are not capable or just too lazy to rotate the plants.


Selective pruning on the lower branches that don't get enough light helps a lot as well.Going in there and thinning the plants of branches that won't produce anything but "popcorn" will also help increase light penetration and overall yield. 

Make hash out of the trimmings if you can.



If money is no object , then begin switching the 600's to 1kers if you can. People will happily take a used 600w ballast off your hands on Ebay or craigslist in a jiffy. Or you could put the 600's in a smaller room that will help with overflow problems if in fact you are just stuffing the room full because you can do so.



In the end, smaller #'s of plants with more room in between and good light penetration is going to give you higher yields right off the bat. Once you guys throw up some 1kers and rid yourselves of the much lower penetration capability of the 600's you will be pulling down more than you can handle.


If the environment and plants are healthy, and this is your only concern I would start with the plants first, then move to the lights. Changing growing style can also help or harm your yeilds.   Be sure that your cooling fans, room, and electrical outlets can handle the much increased power usage that is going to happen when you do finally make the switch to 1kers.

With cool hoods and heat exchangers you should be able to keep the 1ker's within 12 inches of the tops of the plants. 12 inches to 16 inches above the tops of the plants would help with increased light to the edges of the garden.Staggering your lights by a couple feet can also help get light to the edges. Instead of putting them directly inline, you could have them staggered like this.

O-   O-
   O-    O-

Staggering the lights would increase light to the edges without harming center of the garden lighting.


I hope I shed some insight, and would be glad to help out in any way I can. PM me if you need anything else.


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## fellowsped (Jan 22, 2010)

Instead of wasting those 600w and upgrading them all to 1000w then still having similar issues on the edges why not try putting in some t5 side lighting or get a couple more 600w lights and then stagger them putting the first to the left a little bit then the next to the right a little bit and it should help hit the sides more but imho t5 sidelighting


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