# Leaves loosing color and dieing off need help



## Gooch (Sep 24, 2015)

*HYDROPONICS/Aero Ponics/Coco/Soiless/*

How long has this problem been going on? 2 weeks

Are you growing in a PVC grow tent? (example: Hydrohut or any other non  brand tents) an orignal gorilla tent probably 6-8 years old

What system are you running? (DWC? Ebb flow? Aero? Water Farm? Flood Tables? and so on...) Ebb and Flow

What STRAIN are you growing? Crown royal

What was the establishing technique? (Were the seed or clone?) feminized seed

What is the age of your plants?4 weeks from sprout

How long have they been in there mixture they are in now?(coco,soiless etc..) since sprout 

How tall are the plants? one is 14 inches one is 8

What PHASE are the plants in? (seedling, vegetative or flower) are the plants in? seedling i assume almost veg or in veg

What Technique are you using? one is fimmed one is un touched

What substrate/medium are you using?(Hydroton, RockWool etc.) clay pellets

What is the Water temperature? 73f

What color are your roots? White? Brown? Are your roots slimy? white off white not slimey

What Nutrient's are you using?(If growing soiless) floranova

How much of each nutrient are you using with how much water? *Knowing the brand is very helpful* floranova is one mix only

How often are you feeding? (If using soiless), 4 times a day i flood for 40 minutes

How often are you giving nutrients? (If using soiless) 4 times a day for 30 minutes each

If flowering, when did you switch over to using Bloom nutrients?
What order are you mixing your nutrients? (example: veg nutes 1st, bloom 2nd ect)

What is the TDS/EC/PPM you are using? 740

What is the pH of the "Tank"? 6.1

Are you sure your calibration is correct on your equiptment? yes

When was your last watering? ten minutes ago

What is your water temps? 73 f


How often do you clean your system: example: Flush out water replace with clean water and nutrients? once a week

What size bulb are you using? 600wmh 250 floro

What is the distance to the canopy? 14 inches

What is your RH Factor(Relative Humidity)? 63%

What is the canopy temperature?23c

What is the Day/Night Temp? (Include flucutaion range) +-2

What is the current Air Flow? (cfm etc.) exhausting 1 fan unknown cfm

Tell us about your ventilation, intake exhaust and when its running and  not running ? I have a tent small grow no intake exhaust etc.. i have a  fan in one port hole pulling air out which in turn will pull in air from  the other port holes

Is the fan blowing directly at plants? no

Is your water HARD or SOFT? middle but on the harder side

What water are you using? Reverse Osmosis (RO)? Tap? Bottled? Well water? Distilled? Mineral Water? filtered water

Are you using water from a water softener?no

Has plant been recently pruned, cloned off of or pinched one was fimmed one not both acting same

Have any pest chemicals been used? If so, What and When?none

Are plant's infected with pest's no 

View attachment 9-18-roots1.jpg


View attachment 9-18-roots2.jpg


View attachment 9-20-15-discoloring-1.jpg


View attachment 9-20-15-discoloring-fimmed-1.jpg


View attachment 9-24-fimmed.jpg


View attachment 9-24-mother.jpg


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 24, 2015)

That my friend, I would bet money, is a serious magnesium deficiency. Your pH is a little high at 6.1 but you should be able to set it at the beginning of rez change and then watch it drift across the acceptable range of 5.4-6.1, but if its not drifting and just staying that high or higher, that can cause nutrient uptake issues. If the pH is staying off then that could cause the calmag lockout, but I suspect the system just isn't getting enough.

As you have been in coco/soilless/hydro and using the Flora Nova, there is little to no magnesium or calcium available to the plants. I'm not sure if the Flora Nova has much or those 2 elements but I suspect if it does, its not much because that is such an all inclusive nutrient that putting much of those 2 would binds up some of the other stuff. I would suggest that you get some good calmag and start mixing it at 5ml per gallon of (already mixed solution). do this for every rez change until you plants switch to flowering. Then you can cut it back to 3ml per gallon, and carry that until they reach about 7th week(for 9wk flower), 8th week(for 10wk flower), etc.
I hope this helps you


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## tcbud (Sep 25, 2015)

I love this place! A guys got a problem an bam! Here is someone with a well thought out solution. Good looking out there mr. Hush puppy.

And excellent on giving all the particulars too, Gooch.


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## Gooch (Sep 25, 2015)

Thanks hushpuppy you have no idea how happy i am that you commented, most people just look at the new growth and say well the new growth looks very healthy, and now I am also very happy I am creating this grow journal so i can go back and look at what happen. I was using GH floraseries which has 6 or 7 things that need to be added, and I was looking for a simpler formula so I couldnt screw it up. The hydro shop recommended floranova. Now I am going to look back on those early pics and see if I see something. I will pick up some cal/mag today


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## Gooch (Sep 25, 2015)

After looking back through  my journal I noticed right when i fimmed the big one I had noticed a slight reddening on the stems page 6, and the smaller plant looked very pointy and sharp. But I suspect at that time my ph was to high in the 7-8 range, cause i was using the stupid liquid ph test when my meter wasnt working. I may switch it back to the floraseries and keep the ph monitored see if she doesnt respond well


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 25, 2015)

The question about the nutes had to do with how much you are feeding it, regardless of whether it is a 1 part or a 3 part nutrient.  How much Flora Nova are you giving them?  Do you do res change outs?  What are your PPMs running?  Your pH is an issue.  Check out the chart.  If it is continually that high, look how many nutrients are out of reach of the plants.  It could be as simple as getting your pH in line.  http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1908

I have used Flora Nova Grow for years (made a decade or more) and I have never had to add anything.  I do add Cal-Mag in flowering, but never had any problems during veg.


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## Gooch (Sep 25, 2015)

im sorry THG i thought i answered all those questions in the form on the first post, I am using flornova 1 tsp per gallon i have 11 gallons using 9 tsp, this is the first run with floranova i was using floraseries previously and i was running that at about 3/4 strength, ppm are 740, ph is currently at 6


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## Gooch (Sep 25, 2015)

I have read that ph 6-6.3 is good in veg state i was keeping at at 5.6-5.7, then i let it float up to 6


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 26, 2015)

LOL--the biology of the plant does not change like that from veg to flowering.  Where in the world did you read that?  The plant is only going to uptake nutrients at certain pH levels and (IMO) 6 is absolutely as high as you should go.  You did list your pH at 6.1 and mentioned nothing about starting lower and letting it drift.  Check the chart I linked--virtually ALL nutrients are out of reach of the plant (locked out) at pH levels that high.  PH is not different for veg and flowering, but it is different for hydro and soil.  If you get the pH where it should be, I think you will find that this doesn't happen.


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## Gooch (Sep 26, 2015)

thank you THG i kinda got that inference from your previous post so i knocked it back down to 5.5 and it has drifted upto 5.8 I will knock it back down tonight. I was trying to keep it in the 5.5 to 6.3 range but i wont let it get above 6 now


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 26, 2015)

When I set up my nute solution for my hydro system, I set the pH at one end of the spectrum(if I know which direction its going to drift) and then let it drift to the other end of that acceptable range before resetting it back to the opposite end. So if your pH drifts up then you should adjust it to about 5.5 and let it drift up to 6.1, then reset it back to 5.5 again. I think you definitely need to be sure your pH is drifting within the good range and not staying out of range for more than a day or 2.

Now, I told you to start mixing calmag in your system before because I thought I read that you were using coco coir, but now I have gone back and see that you aren't using coco, but rather you are using RW and clay pellets. You may not need as much of the calmag as I first thought. The Flora Nova has some magnesium and calcium but I personally would use more. The coco coir tends to bind up magnesium and calcium, so more is needed initially when using that as your medium. But since you aren't using coco coir, I would say to add 5ml per gal the first 2 times, then 3ml after that.


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## sopappy (Sep 26, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> LOL--the biology of the plant does not change like that from veg to flowering.  Where in the world did you read that?  The plant is only going to uptake nutrients at certain pH levels and (IMO) 6 is absolutely as high as you should go.  You did list your pH at 6.1 and mentioned nothing about starting lower and letting it drift.  Check the chart I linked--virtually ALL nutrients are out of reach of the plant (locked out) at pH levels that high.  PH is not different for veg and flowering, but it is different for hydro and soil.  If you get the pH where it should be, I think you will find that this doesn't happen.



I told him that but I can't find where I read it now. Maybe it was for African Violets. Sorry, Gooch!


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## Gooch (Sep 26, 2015)

Is it bad to change nutrient solutions? Because i originally started with floraseries and then this last change i switched to floranova, at the same time i turned on the mh and increased the waterings, everything has been reverted except the nutrients I am due for a rez change but im not sure if i should stick with floranova or go back to florseries 

My nutes are currently at 5.53 and 740ppm

Sopappy no worries, I appreciate the input and it helped me to learn.


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 27, 2015)

It shouldn't hurt you a bit to change from the Flora series to the Nova since they are from the same company. If you were wanting to switch to a different company brand then I would suggest that you flush them before switching. One thing I wouldn't do though is switch several times to different stuff(or different methods) as that can cause problems.

Don't get too antsy to make changes if you have issues. Make a single change or adjustment at a time or else you will put yourself in a tailspin, chasing one problem while creating 2 more problems. Making the adjustment with the pH and adding some calmag will correct their issue but it will take a couple weeks for them to fully recover. You should see them begin to improve within about 5 days but full recovery will take a bit longer, and the lower badly damaged leaves will not fully recover. Once she gets going again, you can remove those lower leaves that are damaged.


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## Gooch (Sep 27, 2015)

I got the cal/mag you said  add 5 mil/gallon that would be 55mil I added 30, it brought me up to 900ppm, also my temp on my res is at 66f


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 27, 2015)

yeah that should do it. You must be running about 11 gallons of water in your system. I run right at 35gal in mine. But I am also in 3gal pots of coco coir which requires a lot of calmag initially to prevent it from locking out, then a smaller amount after that to serve the plants. That is one of those things that is subject to a lot of variability. It may be that the plants THG ran didn't require as much magnesium, or her water may have had enough of something to help her plants not get the magnesium deficiency. Its hard to say sometimes. 

That is why I say to everyone that each grow is unique to that particular environment. You may have to play with it a little to get the right amount. Going less is better than going more in most cases, but in yours being already suffering from the deficiency, I suggested the heavier boost to get it caught back up. I don't think you will have any problems with the lesser amount though. You may find that they quickly bounce back and then only need a small amount going forward, maybe only 1-2ml per gallon after this initial boost.


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## Gooch (Sep 28, 2015)

Yes and thank you so much for the advice, I am hoping that this is going to help, only time will tell. When would be a good time to start with MH bulb I have tried twice now but eat time i keep seeing curling on the leaves after a few days. The light was 20 inches away, and the temp never went above 75f


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 28, 2015)

You're very welcome  That's rather odd that they would react that way with the light being so far away from them. What watt MH light is that? I can see a 1Kw light being too intense at 20" for seedlings, but a 600w on older, established plants shouldn't give any trouble. It may be that the deficiency issue was contributing to the plants' weakness under the intensity of the MH light. I would get them healthy first before putting them back under the MH light. Maybe a week or 2 depending on how they react to the changes you have made.


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## Gooch (Sep 28, 2015)

the bulb is an agromax high output 600 watt, 75k lumens for use with digital electronic ballasts, and i have a quantum 2 600 watt electronic ballast


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 29, 2015)

That shouldn't be an issue, unless like I said, they were weakened by the deficiency and that allowed them to react to the intense light. I have bulbs right now that produce about 90K lumens and they are about 14" away from the tops of the plants and they are doing fine. I think once they recover from the deficiency, they will be able to take the light without any problems.


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## Gooch (Sep 29, 2015)

I will definately try it again maybe next weekend they seem to be doing very well now


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## sopappy (Sep 29, 2015)

Gooch said:


> snipped
> 
> Sopappy no worries, I appreciate the input and it helped me to learn.



Well, I really shouldn't have commented but I was trying to get you to leave it alone 
I learn stuff that way too and don't do too much harm. I've had mine at 6.0 - 6.2 since I read it, they're fine.


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## Gooch (Sep 29, 2015)

keeping mine at 5.5 has made it explode with growth. posted new pics


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 30, 2015)

PH is so critical with hydro.  Glad that getting your pH in line and adding some cal-mag has helped you.


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 30, 2015)

very cool. Don't try to hold it still. Let it drift and see which way it goes then every other day or every few days, readjust it. I think this works better as it allows those nutrients that are best absorbed at different pH to be each absorbed best in its time as the pH drifts.


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## Gooch (Sep 30, 2015)

I let it drift to 5.8-5.9 then knock it back down


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## sopappy (Sep 30, 2015)

Gooch said:


> I let it drift to 5.8-5.9 then knock it back down



I'm trying 5.7 this time (to 6.3) on account of that's where I ended up after 1 mil of pH down. If I try to hit 5.6, I'll be at 4.4 :rofl:


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## Gooch (Oct 1, 2015)

How much water do you try to adjust?


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 1, 2015)

sopappy said:


> I'm trying 5.7 this time (to 6.3) on account of that's where I ended up after 1 mil of pH down. If I try to hit 5.6, I'll be at 4.4 :rofl:


 I know what you mean there. You try to make fine adjustments (especially on smaller amounts of water and you end up overshooting the number you want. I have found (with mine) that adjusting down doesn't take but half as much buffer as adjusting up.

I have about 35gal in my flower space rez and then I have a veg space that is currently flowering an auto, and the rez in that is about 5gal. The 5gal rez is actually easier to adjust because all the water is in 1 location beneath the plant. While the big rez is interconnected to 3 large totes so that about 1/3 of the water is not in the main rez. For that I have to make adjustments then wait a couple hours for it to circulate through before I can check it.


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## Gooch (Oct 1, 2015)

I find for smaller amounts its easier to use number of drops, start with 1 drop, I use this for single gallon mixes


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## sopappy (Oct 3, 2015)

Gooch said:


> How much water do you try to adjust?



I usually do it by the 5 gal bucket, 15L at a time. I pour two of them in to this thing and added this pump (thanks, Doc) and it's ready for next change. 
I love it, it's like having a fountain in your living room  

View attachment 100_1020.JPG


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## sopappy (Oct 3, 2015)

Hushpuppy said:


> I know what you mean there. You try to make fine adjustments (especially on smaller amounts of water and you end up overshooting the number you want. I have found (with mine) that adjusting down doesn't take but half as much buffer as adjusting up.
> 
> I have about 35gal in my flower space rez and then I have a veg space that is currently flowering an auto, and the rez in that is about 5gal. The 5gal rez is actually easier to adjust because all the water is in 1 location beneath the plant. While the big rez is interconnected to 3 large totes so that about 1/3 of the water is not in the main rez. For that I have to make adjustments then wait a couple hours for it to circulate through before I can check it.



After awhile, my log should show my amounts, now it just warns me if I'm waaay off.  I must admit it doesn't seem as frustrating as it used to be.


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## sopappy (Oct 3, 2015)

Hey Gooch, 
I saw a video with a CO2 monitor, it was AMAZING how much ppm the guy generated just yakking in the room! He was unimpressed with the bags. 
I'm in my rooms a lot. Now, I turn off exhaust and ventilation while I'm in there.


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## Gooch (Oct 3, 2015)

got a link? I am looking into a generator and distribution system, not for this grow or even the next one but likely for the one following that ;-)


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## sopappy (Oct 4, 2015)

Gooch said:


> got a link? I am looking into a generator and distribution system, not for this grow or even the next one but likely for the one following that ;-)



I'm not sure you should see this video. It's pretty demoralizing. It looks like he's growing in his living room, half-assed ventilation, clean? sealed?

Hard to argue with his results though..... 
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPod_aMYJnI"]www.youtube.com/watch?v=QPod_aMYJnI[/ame]

I think it's the light and light mover that get him those yields.
That ac unit should be spewing stink outside, no?
and a sealed room?
This is a bust waiting to happen, no?


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## Gooch (Oct 4, 2015)

lol he said maybe if you have a little 4x4 tent or something bags may work(28 minutes) lol and i have a 4x4 tent, no this guy is not going to get busted, the air conditioner doesn't pump air out it pulls air in, and im not even sure that is on an exterior wall i think he said he was pulling the air from his house, but i could be wrong.


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 4, 2015)

If you have enough space, you could get some rabbits and put them in the space or if your grow tent is in a larger room, you could put some dogs, cats, rabbits, etc in that room and they will generate a considerable amount of co2.


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## sopappy (Oct 4, 2015)

Hushpuppy said:


> If you have enough space, you could get some rabbits and put them in the space or if your grow tent is in a larger room, you could put some dogs, cats, rabbits, etc in that room and they will generate a considerable amount of co2.



soooo true, HP.... I am seriously thinking about guinea pigs, they are easy peasy, nice little easy to clean up pellet poops hahahaha and a little lettuce goes a looooong way....
and I get a kick outa how they squeel when you come in to their space to feed 'em


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## sopappy (Oct 4, 2015)

Gooch said:


> lol he said maybe if you have a little 4x4 tent or something bags may work(28 minutes) lol and i have a 4x4 tent, no this guy is not going to get busted, the air conditioner doesn't pump air out it pulls air in, and im not even sure that is on an exterior wall i think he said he was pulling the air from his house, but i could be wrong.



Something wrong there, Gooch. That a/c has to expel hot (stinky) air somewhere. I don't believe the guy doesn't have an odor problem. Maybe he's 20 stories in the air but I sure thought that was a sloppy looking grow room... carpets, drapes, materials, no panda, no tents, yuck!
I can't believe he doesn't have bugs!


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## Gooch (Oct 4, 2015)

ok i agree with all that but bugs typically come with soil, but i think the ac is still inside the house, i dont personally care about odor, but i found it very interesting that in the mess he had going on he had giant colas, so whatever he is doing it appears to be working well


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## sopappy (Oct 4, 2015)

Hushpuppy said:


> If you have enough space, you could get some rabbits and put them in the space or if your grow tent is in a larger room, you could put some dogs, cats, rabbits, etc in that room and they will generate a considerable amount of co2.



I'm amazed how much WE generate, HP. I turn off my fans when I'm working in there now and berate my plants the whole time. 
But I AM getting a big fat guinea pig too.... pictures coming...
DON'T TELL PITA!!!
(little seesucker gets out of his cage and eats my plants, I'll choke him with my bare hands)


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 5, 2015)

If he eats your plants, you will have to dry him out and smoke him.


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