# $10 smart grow system using an old computer!!!



## zem

i've been looking into a way to control my entire growroom using an old computer, i've seen many ways using a board to build a timer with chips, then i got to some info about a $10 smart home system it is already being used by DIY geeks out there to control their home using their computers. the way it is done is using the old parralel port on your computer and a couple of resistors a transistor a diode an old 6V cell charger and some software. one parralel port allows you to control 8 seperate power outlets each at different time and you can time your cycles to the second. 2 parallel ports will give you 16 outlets this is more than enough to fully automate a growroom! well these are some links, check it out! 
hxxp://www.instructables.com/id/SKXE9UHFP8NLL9J/
hxxp://www.epanorama.net/circuits/parallel_output.html
i still didn't buy any parts because i never hooked any electronic parts together so i need some help on this, it seems a simple 3 steps, it would be of great help and benefit to have someone who worked with such parts and could help me make it work, thanks in advance for any input


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## Alistair

I wouldn't know how to do it, but that sounds like a cool idea to me.  Good luck.


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## Tater

I'm waiting on my development board and programmer to arrive (Santa doesn't do early delivery apparently  )  and as one of my first major project I will be developing a modular garden control system using Atmel AVR microcontrollers (basically a mini computer).  I have a decent enough grasp on the electronics so what is it you need help with specifically?


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## Tater

Oh so I was puttering in the garage last night working on some mame arcade cabinets I'm making for my brothers for xmas and thought of something I should post here.  If you want to do this with a computer and not a microcontroller make sure you get a computer with a real printer port, the old school ones.  Best place to find one is in your local electronics recycling depot at night when everyone is gone, unless they allow scavenging.  Its where I got two computers two monitors and speakers and cables etc for my arcade cabinets (they have to be made out of recycled stuff long story).  It doesn't need to be powerful, an old pII 450 would work fine or something similar, you should be able to find an old CRT and stuff for it to, since the LCD market took off tube tvs and monitors are a dime a dozen.

Good luck let me know if you start this as I would love to help out if I could.


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## zem

so let me get this one straight, you're gona build the whole controller with a display screen and all? do you have a thread for your project? that would be crazy hard to do i was thinking i need an old computer i have a couple of old ones still laying around the house, what i need is someone to look at the links and tell me how i could apply it exactly, they say i should connect the diode resistors transistor in a circuit but i never did anything similar i wana know just how it's done how these are connected it looks very simple i'm sure anyone with a little experience with these things will find it a piece of cake but i don't know what i'm really reading when it comes to electronic circuits. thanks for your input tater  cheers


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## Tater

hxxp://www.electronicstheory.com/

Theres a free course to explain the basics to you, its actually where I started my electronics hobby.  Great site and one of the best tutorials for explaining stuff in plain english.

And yeah thats the plan, I want each piece to be modular so that you can plug and play.  So say you need a light timer, an exhast control, a pump controller, a ph and TDS monitor.  Each piece would be seperate and plug into the main "brain".  I would like to make the light controller the main piece because it will be needed in every case.  Also this way I can break the project up into parts to help save my sanity.

And don't worry I'll post a thread when I have something done or at least prototyped on a breadboard.  But don't expect to see it till summer of 10 because the pipeline season is about to kick into full gear here and I got bills to pay haha.


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## DonJones

ZEM,

Now I understand what you are doing --using the computer to control light duty relays.  It looks like it would work to me.  I will have to read the links carefully to really make any serious recommendations, BUT after having just skimmed them, I will bet you that you will need another layer of relays to actually control your equipment. 

I say this because I think you will find that most of those little 6 volt relays will NOT handle the power you are going to be switching.  I think what you will have to do is to use the relay in the circuit to switch the low amperage 120V control circuit in Growdude's timer controlled relay set up.  Essentualy what I think you will be doing is running the power leg of the 120V control circuit to one of the unlabeled terminals on the relay then the other terminal will run to one of the control circuits on the 120V relay control circuit and the ground leg will just run directly to the other control terminal.  

Let me do some reading, but that is my initial impression.  Also, I'm not real impressed with the diagrams -- they seem to be needlessly hard to read for the uninitiated.  I'm above average in being able to decipher diagrams and they look confusing to me for such simple circuits; OR the circuits are more complex than they look. 

Either way, I'm sure they are doable so long as you can locate the proper parts.  It seems like number specific electronics parts are harder to come by than they were a few years a go.

Give me a few days to review the literature and I'll let you know what I find out. The control circuit seems fairly straight forward with a little study.

What kind of electrical/electronics skills do you have?  Can you do fine soldering without overheating the component that you are soldering?  That will be the largest challenge.

Good smoking.


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## zem

DonJones said:
			
		

> What kind of electrical/electronics skills do you have?  Can you do fine soldering without overheating the component that you are soldering?  That will be the largest challenge.
> 
> Good smoking.


well Don  ive worked with electrical wiring hooked relays for 24v timer to work my 240v pump hooked breakers switches even hooked an APS backup to my power box at my home but thats only electrical, i never worked with electronic boards i did inspect the board on my timer like 3 times and saw the guy who fixed it remove some micro batteries that needed to be replaced and then he soldered new ones back, i have the soldering equipment and i think with proper instructions i could easily solder without burning parts, i am quite handy and i read and learn before acting especially with electricity.
i think that the drawings of circuits are not very clear because theyr very simple to do, i'll look for more better links, basically i need to work a relay via the parallel port data pins there are 8 pins on each and they give out a very low voltage the thing i dont understand is how to make a proper circuit from the data pin to the main 240v circuit so that i can power several amps, it seems something very simple  just need some knowledge on what resistors transistors diodes and circuit components are and how to hook them exactly. i have more than 1 old computer with the old parallel ports would be great to be able to use one to fully automate my growroom, i still need to take few measures after i get the circuit done, i will need to format my old pc maybe romove useless things on it even add some things to make it more durable this is the next step before i can put it to work, computers eventually break and will need fixing i think with some instructions i can upgrade an old pc to work long years 24/7 without breaking.
thank you for being interested in such a project, i am very interested in it indeed, if this works well i think a DIY simplified step by step instructions on how to work growroom with computer via parallel port would become very useful to many growers, i think Tater's future project on building his whole controller on a board would be the best to do but this old PC project is very simple and can be very easy to do for many many people with an old PC layin around  i'll be looking forward to hear some input from you, cheers


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## DonJones

Zem,

What I think you are going to wind up doing is making a control box, or maybe even more than one that you run the parallel port cable into, mount 8 circuits in it with each one of them controlling one of the 6 VDC relays.  Then you will run 120V into the box also with both the ground and power legs terminating in a buss strip, one for each leg (a buss strip, aka terminal strip, is a series of terminals all connected together by a piece of metal so that they provide several places to connect a wire all to a single wire).  From the power buss you would connect to one output terminal of each of the 6VDC relays.  Then you would connect the power leg on an extension cord/cable to the other output terminal of each 6VDC relay and the ground leg of each cord/cable to the ground buss.  The other end of each cord would hook to the control circuit of one of 8 120VAC 2 pole relays which would in turn switch both legs of a single 240VAC circuit off or on.

The way I think it would work after being connected up properly is, each circuit is separate from the parallel port on the computer all the way through.  When a particular parallel circuit is turned on a low powered signal turns the 6VDC relay for that circuit on.  Then the 6VDC relay turns on the 120VAC relay, which then turns that individual 120VAC circuit on and provides 240VAC power to your controlled equipment.

I'll try to see if I can sketch an understandable diagram and post it to make it easier to follow the explanation, but given my limited drawing ability, that may be hard for me to do.

Good smoking.


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## Growdude

Don is right on with this.
Its going to take min 15 amp relays that will be controlled by the control (6 vdc) relays.


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## Growdude

It seems the real challenge is going to be the software and drivers needed to control the port.

He does not give you example's of how this is done, the other link does but your going to need to be able to do some programing in VB or C+ to be able to do it.


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## PUFF MONKEY

can i overclock to speed up flowering and make my buds more potent ? lol...


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## PUFF MONKEY

now i know who my fellow pot geeks are lol...


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## zem

:holysheep: Don i can almost sketch it myself reading your post, but where are the resistors, capacitor, diode??  you didnt mention them, are they a part of the relay? it will be very simple the way you put it but i thought theres something more to it.
growdude i can get some software from the internet specifically for this i wouldnt have to program it


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## Growdude

zem said:
			
		

> growdude i can get some software from the internet specifically for this i wouldnt have to program it




I would like to see it, is there anyway you can share this info/link? 

Industrial automation is my profession, all done with micro controllers or PLC's (programmable logic controller's) .

While one would never need or want to use PLC's for something as basic as grow room automation there is a wide variety of micro controllers that are very cheap you can get a basic I/O 12/in 8 out for about $200.00

These units are programmable from either there keypads or via laptop and software.

One thing you must keep in mind, any control either micro controller or this home built one will require relays capable of handling the loads put upon them.

Also I see no analog input capability to the system, to completely automate one needs to be able to input analog data (temps, ph, Co2 levels) ect.


Automating a grow room is something ive thought about for sometime now.


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## DonJones

Zem,

If you consider the "circuit as a little black box" and the high current high voltage relays as another "set of little black boxes" then the circuitry becomes a lot simpler.

Give me a day or so and I'll get back to you.  We have total chaos here this morning.

Good smoking.


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## DonJones

Zem,

That was simpler than I thought.  Here is the schematic for connecting the 3 components of your computer controlled power supply.

I only showed one set to control one 240V circuit, but each of the other 7 are identical but you will probably make one large box to contain all 8 of the "CIRCUITS" and the outlets for each of the 8 different "CIRCUITS".

Here is the way I envision it operating:

The computer sends an ON signal through the parallel cable to the signal inputs of the "CIRCUIT".  That in turn energizes the internal relay with connects the incoming line terminal and the outgoing line terminals.  At this point we have a 120 VAC signal/power source turned on.  Since that 120 VAC output terminal is connected to one of the signal terminals in the 120 VAC controlled 240 VAC switching relay and the other signal terminal is connected to the neutral leg of the 120 VAC source, that causes the 2 pole relay to engage which connects the L1 input and outlet terminals along with the  the L2 input and outlet terminals and we now have 240 VAC power in as high of a power rating as the source will supply and the 240 VAC relay will carry safely.

When the computer quits sending the ON signal, the "CIRCUIT" turns off which interrupts the line leg of the 120 VAC signal which turns the 240 VAC relay of and we now have NO output 240 VAC available.

In this scenario, all the "CIRCUIT" is doing is converting a very very low powered DC signal to a higher powered AC signal which in turn controls the main power relay.  This intermediate control "CIRCUIT" is necessary simply because the computer signal is NOT powerful enough to control the 240 VAC high powered relay.

The output terminals in the drawing of the "CIRCUIT" on the Internet shows a dual state relay in which there are 3 output terminals only 2 of which are connected at any time --the center one is where the "HOT" switched powerwire is connected and the top one is where the "ON" power outlet wire is hooked.  We leave the third terminal empty so we have a simple ON-OFF switching relay.  

However if we connect the 3rd terminal to a second device, we now have a toggle either-or switching relay that lets us send power to one of two circuits depending upon whether we have an "ON" signal to the input connections or not.  The only draw back about using that set up is you can only energize one of the two devices at a time and when the computer signal is interrupted for any reason the power to the bottom terminal is automatically turned "ON" by default.


Is that pretty much the way you think it is supposed to work?  What about you, Growdude, did I miss anything?

ZEM, Growdude is correct, without some way for the computer to sense and respond to the conditions, all you have now is a single source programmable 8 circuits high tech timer.  As it is even with sensors, you are still limited to controlling 8 circuits per parallel port/cable.  Even wired in the either-or toggle configuration you are still only controlling 8 circuits but 16 devices.

I'll think about how many different conditions we need to monitor and how many output circuits we need in order to control those conditions later.

Good smoking. 

View attachment schematic fo rcomputer controlled power supply0001.pdf


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## zem

Don, first of all thanks again for thinkin this out with me  well i was thinking through your sketch and i still don't see it working since if i got you right i'll be switching a 120V power ON which itself powers the 220v ON but this will require me to get a 3rd circuit into this and my electricity voltage is 240 so i would have to get a 240/120 adapter and another line for the 220 and a third for the 6v, it is feasible but it will add to the complication and cost with no need since what i must need with this is supposedly only a 6v power supply and a 240 current. it doesnt require 120v to power 220v, my timer in my current grow is 24v and powers a 240V current with only one single 24v/240v relay. the ones i read about all mention resistors capasitors diode etc... your way is only simply relays one afer the other with 3 seperate surrents, i still believe we are missing something, its supposed to be 2 currents a 6v and 240v between them a circuit of cappacitor resistance diode etc... the normally on outlets on the relays i will not use with any pumps or dangerous things that can mess up if kept on, i might even not use them at all. i counted the number of seperate currents i have to control to be able to automate my growroom and it is less than 16 i'll think it through again tomorro anyway im very tired just got back now gona make a new thread bout totally different subject with a Q about a ppm meter then im gona sleeeeep  and yeah i can almost fully automate it im not going to buy a meter with abilities to send info to comp since it is VERY expensive as i saw so i will make a big main res to control my control res  this will refill it whenevr needed with fresh nutes already prepared and ready to feed the plants, i will still have to do something like checking the PH/EC but it will make it almost fully automated  i'll look for the software later saw it somewhere i'll be back by tomorro thx guys cheers


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## DonJones

ZEM,

I'm too ripped to understand your post, much less give you an undeerstandable reply so I respond later.

Good smoking every one


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## DonJones

em,

You are missing the point of the "CIRCUIT" 6V power supply entirely.  It is there to provide the extra current necessary to close and hold the 6V relay because the output of the parallel cable is designed to be a signal source NOT a power source.

Also the "CIRCUIT" is simply a switch -- not a power source.  There is NO power fed to the output terminals on the relay.  You have to get power from somewhere to hold your 240V double pole high powered relay.  

I chose to use 120V because I can get the power relays for it cheaply and 120V is easy to get  if you already have 240V available.  just run a circuit from one line leg through the relay switch and then through the holding coil of the 240v relay and back to the white neutral leg of the original 240 V circuit.  If you already have 24V available and can find the 24V powered 240 volt high current relay, then you can use 24V to run through the switch built into the 6V relay inside the "CIRCUIT" and on through the holding coil in your big high powered 240V relay.

Does that make more sense?

Good Smoking.


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## zem

thats exactly how i understood you don, i need the 6V power supply for the neutral side of the current to be always connected and the phase side of the current i get it from port, this then turns on another relay with a 120v or 24v so that i get a flowing current which itself powers a relay which has input of 120 or 24v and turns on the main 240v current, i got what your sayin all along  but i'm not quite sure this way works because i think that the parallel port cannot by itself power a relay with a 24v or 120 v current without resistors capacitors in between. your way is straightforward thats how i thought of it in the beginning of my research but as i read about it it seems that the parallel port can only power a little LED, i'm not quite sure maybe i missed something? maybe the figures that i was looking at with resistors capacitors are only the components of a relay? if this way your talkin about is the right way it will be very easy for me to apply it but if you look at the parts needed to do this in the instructables it mentions more things, since its a short instructions im gona copy paste it following this thread, hold on


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## zem

intro$10 Smart Home System
I have seen many smart home systems that enables you to hook up your appliances to your PC and control it right from your desktop. They are all very comprehensive and above all very expensive. I was thinking of doing something similar without using a micro controller ( i know they are the fashion today but a layman has an aversion to it ). I kept thinking and thinking and tey suddenly it stuck me...the good old PARALLEL port!!!!...

I have used it to light an LED using a c program when i was 15...then i left it as soon as i layed my hands upon my first microchip pic project.

But i thought i better dust it back up...come one guys..let us do it....

step 1Basic Ideas of a Paralell Port
Everybody knows what is parallel port, where it can be found, and for what it is being used. the primary use of parallel port is to connect printers to computer and is specifically designed for this purpose. Thus it is often called as printer Port or Centronics port (this name came from a popular printer manufacturing company 'Centronics' who devised some standards for parallel port). You can see the parallel port connector in the rear panel of your PC. It is a 25 pin female (DB25) connector (to which printer is connected). On almost all the PCs only one parallel port is present, but you can add more by buying and inserting ISA/PCI parallel port cards.

the Pin outs are simple...
pins 2-9 are the 8 data pins which we will be using to control up to 8 switches.
step 2The Circuit
Parts List

IN4148 Diode - 1
6V Relay -1
1KOhm Resistor - 1
202Kohm Resistor - 1
BC547 Transistor -1 (BC548 Will also do)
LED - 1
DB25 Male connector ( Usually comes with a 25/18 wire cable)
6V Power Supply - 1 ( I used a old charger from Nokia, It worked pretty well)
Working Board - 1 ( you can also do it in Christmas tree style...but i prefer doing it in a board )
Necessary Wiring


Pins 18-25 Usually comes shorted together in the connector itself..else do it in the connector and use a single wire to the ground to minimize complications...

step 3The software to run it.....
I am not venturing into the details of the programming..

Google for inpout32.dll to get the details


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## zem

this is another figure from other instructions hxxp://www.dakeng.com/relay.htm


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## Growdude

zem said:
			
		

> thats exactly how i understood you don, i need the 6V power supply for the neutral side of the current to be always connected and the phase side of the current i get it from port, this then turns on another relay with a 120v or 24v so that i get a flowing current which itself powers a relay which has input of 120 or 24v and turns on the main 240v current, i got what your sayin all along  but i'm not quite sure this way works because i think that the parallel port cannot by itself power a relay with a 24v or 120 v current without resistors capacitors in between. your way is straightforward thats how i thought of it in the beginning of my research but as i read about it it seems that the parallel port can only power a little LED, i'm not quite sure maybe i missed something? maybe the figures that i was looking at with resistors capacitors are only the components of a relay? if this way your talkin about is the right way it will be very easy for me to apply it but if you look at the parts needed to do this in the instructables it mentions more things, since its a short instructions im gona copy paste it following this thread, hold on




This is what your missing Zem,

The 6 v is to power the circuit you just posted, Its used to energize the 6 volt relay, that relay has contacts that have 120 or 24 or whatever volts applied to them and when energized will complete the circuit to energize the load relay which is the one used to actually turn something on.

Each device you need to turn on will have 2 relays, the control (6v) and the load relay which is whatever you need to use.


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## zem

i totally understand that i must be not explaining clearly but i get it growdude exactly what you're saying but the circuit you're describing doesnt involve the resistors transistor and diode that are shown in the diagrams above and these are the components i know nothing about and dont understand why theyre there or how to hook them and none of you guys is mentioning anything about them to me


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## Growdude

zem said:
			
		

> i totally understand that i must be not explaining clearly but i get it growdude exactly what you're saying but the circuit you're describing doesnt involve the resistors transistor and diode that are shown in the diagrams above and these are the components i know nothing about and dont understand why theyre there or how to hook them and none of you guys is mentioning anything about them to me



That is the control circuit, what it does is take the parallel output signal and switch it using the transistor and 6v supply enough to fire the 6 v relay.

The input from the parallel port goes to DO - D8 IN THE TOP DIA, or the sig. in the second.



			
				Growdude said:
			
		

> The 6 v is to power the circuit you just posted, Its used to energize the 6 volt relay,


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## zem

Do-D8 are the data pins from parallel port follow fig.1 theres a 2.2Kohm resistor then a transistor, then it goes to a point of interception with the circuit from 6v power supply. the circuit from the 6v power supply goes also through a 1kohm resistor and to the diode from the other side, what are these? i understand the relay concept very well but what are the resistors transistors and diode doin there in the circuit before the relay?? thats what im missing


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## Growdude

zem said:
			
		

> Do-D8 are the data pins from parallel port follow fig.1 theres a 2.2Kohm resistor then a transistor, then it goes to a point of interception with the circuit from 6v power supply. the circuit from the 6v power supply goes also through a 1kohm resistor and to the diode from the other side, what are these? i understand the relay concept very well but what are the resistors transistors and diode doin there in the circuit before the relay?? thats what im missing



They are a switching circuit, they take that do- d8 data and switch the 6v on to fire the 6v relay.

Its a solid state switch thats it dont worry about what each component does, together they will take very small signal (par. port data) and turn on a 6 v relay.


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## Growdude

something else this circuit could do,

One could also use an external signal , say from a float switch to input on the the circuits control bias (the resistor that goes to the transistor), or where you would connect your parallel port 's do - d8.

this could be an input to say"rez low fire the fill valve" if the float shuts off the 6v when full the circuit would shut off the fill valve.

Well not as flexible as a micro controller this is essentially what it does.

I would rather be able to directly input that to the computer and let the software turn on the circuit.


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## DonJones

ZEM,

This is frustrating because you're doing just what I do way too often -- focusing on one small part of a project and trying to apply that to the entire project when it does not transfer.  (GOD it is amazing when I look back that I ever learned anything because I've done that so many times and I don't know where my mentors got the patience to deal with me.)

Okay lets try starting over with a clean piece of paper -- forget the whole Internet DIY thing for a moment.

What are you trying to do --  Answer use a computer to replace you, or a timer, throwing switches to control various devices -- lights, fans, maybe CO2 supplement equipment, pumps valves and so on-- that run your grow operation.

Am I correct so far?

Second question is how do I make the computer throw switches under the circumstances that I program into it? --Two part answer 1. find software and program it --*that is way out of my area of expertise at the moment and someone else will have to help you there.*-- and 2. find hardware to ocnvert the computer's very very low powered output signal in to a solid state or mechanical means of shutting the power off and on.

Next comes How do I find and use the hardware in part 2 of the above answer?  Presto, here is the partial answer USE "THE CIRCUIT" FROM THE INTERNET DIY that you posted. 

That is where you were when you asked us for help and that is where we are starting from -- you have found the answer to all of your original questions and goals -- you have the means to control at least 8 different functions with the computer.

However, you now have a new problem -- the switch (the CIRCUIT in the Internet DIY project) will NOT handle sufficient power to run my various devices, how can I handle the required power with an inadequate load carrying capacity?

Growdude and I are trying to show you how to take any switch with a limited power carrying capacity and use it to handle large amounts of power.

Am I correct and do you follow me?  If not, then ignore the rest of this and try to explain where I lost you rather than saying"Yes, but".

If I am correct and you follow me so far, then here is the answer very simply put -- you use your very light duty switch -- in this case the computer controlled "circuit" -- to control a high powered switch -- in your case the 240V relay.

Now here is how we are suggesting you do that.

First find relays that will control your required 240V at what ever amperage you want it to handle -- I think some where you said 30 amps so I'll use that but the actual amperage isn't real important so long as the relay will handle it.
 Because you are using 240V your relay MUST be a 2 pole relay that can turn off and on both power legs of the 240vAC circuit.

Now you have control what ever holding power it requires to operate the power relay.  in our case we chose 120v control power because it is easy to come by if you already have 240 volts available  If you already have a 24  volt source available, then use a relay that 24 v will operate.  
That part of our apparent disagreement is irrelevant to the problem at hand -- controlling the power relay.

The solution is very simple, run that controlling power through the relay terminals on the output side of the "circuit" from your Internet DIY project.  *Now there is one final caution -- make sure that the 6volt relay you use when you build the circuit will carry the amperage that your power relay needs to operate or you will burn that relay out and nothing will work.*

Change the 120v in my diagram to whatever voltage you want to use and look at it again.

Let me know if this helps or makes it worse.  I'm not trying to talk down to you, just trying ot make it simple enough that almost any one reading this thread can follow it too.  Also, some times the smartest people are the hardest ones to communicate with because they try to read too much into things.  I know that is usually why I don't understand instructions.

Good smoking man.

You will get it worked out!


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## zem

ok i read some more on this and i almost got it figured, the figures above are to show how to build a circuit that is found in relays we buy commercially so basically it's teaching us how to make what we call a relay but in fact the real relay is only the last part which is the electromagnet and switch, the resistor diode and transistor are found inside the "relay" we normally buy, am i right?? now to apply it for a 16output circuit it is probably much better to build my relays since i will need 16 seperate ones and it will become extremely costly to buy them completely built and soldered with resistors transistors and diode in one piece. things have cleared up now that i read some more. i'll keep up my research gona look for proper softare next  i'll keep you guys posted, thx for your patience


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## DonJones

ZEM,  Functionally your correct; "the circuit in the Internet project" FUNCTIONS as a relay.  Actually, a more accurate description is the resisters diodes, 6 v power supply and so on are the "control" circuit for the small 6v electromagnetic relay.  *If you can find a 6v relay that uses a small current to operate and can handle the 240V high current load, then you wouldn't need the second separate relay.*However, I think the odds are seriously stacked against you.

Yes you are going to have to assemble the "circuits" yourself because they are a custom design and device.

You mentioned building 16 of them.  Unless you have 2 parallel ports you will only need 8 because the parallel port only has 8 circuits through it.

No the relay we normally buy is only the electromagnetic part, the coil that energizes the electromagnet which pulls the armature and move the power circuit contacts to opened or closed.

If you are going to use them to control 240v circuits, then they have to be 2 pole like Growdude and I used to safeguard the timers because in a 240 v circuit you have 2 parallel 120v circuits that share the neutral wire so that you have phased opposite to each other so that at any given time you have a total of 240 v across the 2 power wires and no current flowing through the shared neutral wire (assuming that both circuits are equally loaded).  To shut off or turn on a 240v circuit you have to interrupt or restore both hot wires at the same time, hence the name 2 poles.

I think you are there.  When you look at my schematic, the box labeled "the circuit contains the entire circuit containing all of the parts on the parts list for the circuit form the Internet.  You wil have to build as many copies o fthe circuit as you are going to have circuits feeding through the parallel cable.  Each parallel port will control 8 circuits.  So if your computer only has one parallel port and you want ot control more than 8 circuits, then you will have to add one.  I'm not sure how to do that but I think you can find add on cards that have parallel ports built in to them.  Just how you will program the software to control both ports separately is something I have no idea about.

Good smoking


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## zem

:holysheep: Don, look what i've found>>>hxxp://electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm for 35$ one can get a parallel port relay 8 outputs with led on each that powers 5 Amps 240V! software included then i would place another relay for my lights and i can power other equipment directly through the parallel port relay, well it's not exactly a $10 system but still cheap. i might still have to get the parts for it myself since im not in US i'll have to see what the shipping cost would be, but hey! this is a breakthrough already software is available to download  cheers


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## Growdude

zem said:
			
		

> :holysheep: Don, look what i've found>>>hxxp://electronickits.com/kit/complete/elec/ck1601.htm for 35$ one can get a parallel port relay 8 outputs with led on each that powers 5 Amps 240V! software included then i would place another relay for my lights and i can power other equipment directly through the parallel port relay, well it's not exactly a $10 system but still cheap. i might still have to get the parts for it myself since im not in US i'll have to see what the shipping cost would be, but hey! this is a breakthrough already software is available to download  cheers



Nice find. its the same circuit you posted but in a 8 circuit package.

 Not pre assembled but Im sure its easy to solder together.

Still in order to automate anything your going to need inputs unless its just a expensive timer.


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## DonJones

Everyone here is the simplest explanation of what a relay is, how they work, and the various types/states that I have ever seen.  Their explanation is for simple single pole relays but the only difference between as single pole relay and a two pole relay is the 2 pole relay has a second set of contact for a second load circuit.  

*Relay Contact Information:

Relay contacts on most of our kits and in the industrial world are labeled with NO (Normally Open), NC (Normally Closed), and C (Common).  These labels and the function of the relays seems to cause a great deal of confusion among people, however once you understand the meaning it is quite simple and literal.

The first thing you need to know is that a relay contact is a switch, nothing more, nothing less.  It does not provide power; it simply opens and closes an electrical circuit, just like the light switch on a wall.  When the relay is de-energized or turned off there is an electrical connection between NC and Common, hence normally closed.  In the off state there is not a connection between NO and common, hence normally open.  When the relay is energized or turned on the NO and C make an electrical connection, and the electrical connection between NC and C is removed.

Here is a sample of connecting a simple 110 VAC light to a relay so that it will turn on when the relay is energized.  Wire the hot 110VAC to the Common (C), Normally Open (NO) to hot side of the light bulb, Neutral from the light bulb to the neutral of the 110VAC wiring.  Now when the relay is energized the NO will close connecting to the C and allowing power to flow through the bulb.

The last issue is voltage and current ratings.  A typical relay rating will be 24VDC @ 5 Amps, 110VAC @ 10 Amps, 220 VAC @ 5 Amps.  This is simply telling you the max amperage that the relay contacts can handle at the voltage you are using.  For example a 100 Watt light bulb is going to be about 100 VAC @ 1 Amp.  This is 9 Amps below the rating, so the circuit can handle turning on an off the light bulb with no problem.  
* 

Hopefully this will help someone understand what I've been ramblling about trying to explain it.

Good smoking!  MERRY CHRISTMAS EVERYONE!


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## DonJones

ZEM,

I checked it out and that is surely the best deal you are going to find anywhere unless some one just gives it too you.

I noticed the price for the kitCK1601K is $34.95 and the price for the fully assembled and tested one CK1601A is only $49.95.  Personally I'd order the completely assembled one, part number CK1601A for the small difference.  Unless you are just into assembling kits, the time you save and the assurance that it has been tested and everything works is well worth the additional $15.00.  That is less than 2 hours wages at minimum wage here in Washington State and I'm positive that it will take longer than that to assemble.

*You did notice that you have to supply a 12VDC power supply didn't you?* I clicked on NEED A POWER SUPPLY  on the page for the Parallel Relay Board and they have a fully assembled 12VDC power supply for $12.95 if you purchase it and the relay board at the same time.  It looks to me like you could purchase both items and be well on the road to having a plug together system.  Then all you would have to do is connect your various 240V power circuits to your devices and you will be up and running as soon as you get the software installed and programed.

Like Growdude says, now you need to figure out how to get the inputs into the computer and cross program it so that the sensors cause the computer to control the devices the way you want it to, otherwise you just have a complicated timer -- of course if you start adding up the number of different circuits you can control then it is actually a pretty inexpensive timer because 8 circuits at any thing over $8.50/each timer is going to cost more than this set up.  Plus this has the advantage of being able to control all of the devices from one location.

I think you have gotten the only part of your project that I can help with in the bag.  I have no idea how you connect the various sensors to the computer much less how you program it.  However if you find something and want me to review it, I'll look it over to see if it sounds reasonable.

Before you go any farther, I suggest you sit down and make a list of what devices you want to control and under what conditions you want them to turn on or off.

For instance:
Lights -- on at XXXX off at XXXX (for each different grow area).
or
Cooling system -- on at xx degrees and off at xx degrees.

Incidentally most HVAC systems operate on at least a 3F spread between on and off, put you could set yours up anyway you want to.  The smaller the spread the more frequently it is on but presumably for a shorter time each time.  Of course starting the system up it shortens the life expectancy so you are trading off a narrower temperature spread versus a longer life expectancy for the system.  This usually applies to any electrical device and well as engines.

You made it man!

Good smoking


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## dirtyolsouth

:ciao:Seasonz Greetingz Electricically Talented  MPers!

Great topic Zem...  although taking it down to the design level makes me feel like a dog watching a video game...   Can I throw a quick question at you guys?  I've been looking for a thermostatically controlled fan speed controller.  I need to run my 630cfm fan wide open during 'lights on' to keep my 1K hps cool but during 'lights out' I'd like the fan speed to drop back to i.e. 40% of maximum for stealth reasons and just enough to maintain negative air pressure and all air movement in my bloom closet through my carbon filter and my exhaust.  

I saw a product sold in the UK as the PrimAir Controller...

hXXp://www.hydroponic-shop.com/product_info.php?products_id=177

This thing sounds PERFECT...  but is there an easy way for me to run this on US voltage... 120v?  Would it work with a consumer international power adaptor or would it act buggy... Like my electronics do when I'm in Europe, running them thru adaptors...?  :hubba: Or do you guys know of any products that could accomplish this feat and are already available for 120v?  

Thanks in advance for any info you can give me...    Sorry to jump a little bit off topic.    I've got a good suggestion...   You should start a electrical support thread where MPeeps could benefit from all of your technical know how...   

Peace!


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## Growdude

Here ya go Dirtyolsouth

hxxp://www.bghydro.com/BGH/itemdesc.asp?ic=AACGZTEMP1V&eq=&Tp=


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## zem

DOS if you only need the fan to change rpm at light on/off then you dont need to buy the thermostat, all you need is a relay that you can run with your light timer and hook it to a regular fan controler so that when it's normally closed (lights off) the fan runs on current that passes through the fan controller at low speed and when the relay switch is on (light on) it gets a regular current and flows at full speed  will save you $s


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## leafminer

With a bit of Quickbasic and one of those parallel port controller boards you can do a lot.


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## DonJones

leafminer,

Can you give me some examples?  I've got a couple of old PCs laying around and this looks like a much better way to go than buy 8 different timers.

Good smoking


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> leafminer,
> 
> Can you give me some examples?  I've got a couple of old PCs laying around and this looks like a much better way to go than buy 8 different timers.
> 
> Good smoking



Why would you need 8 different timers?

I really dont see that much use for something like this.


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## DonJones

Growdude,

2 separate rooms right now,and soon to be 4 rooms, lights for each room ventilation for each room, 4x2=8, and that doesn't even include hydro controls for each room if I start using something besides DWC.  If you are running multiple rooms/areas you can quickly accumulate more than 8 different timing programs.

We currently are authorized 30 plants and very soon that will jump to 45 just for the family members who live here and have prescriptions plus we are also authorized that much again as designated providers for other non-growing patients.  Currently we are growing for one patient in addition to our own use so right now we are authorized 45 plants and we wouldn't have room for that many plants between our 2 rooms, if they didn't count rooting clones and/or sprouting seeds.  The current cloning/sprouting box could even become the 3 area now and eventually the 5th area.

Good question though.


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> Growdude,
> 
> 2 separate rooms right now,and soon to be 4 rooms, lights for each room ventilation for each room, 4x2=8, and that doesn't even include hydro controls for each room if I start using something besides DWC.  If you are running multiple rooms/areas you can quickly accumulate more than 8 different timing programs.
> 
> We currently are authorized 30 plants and very soon that will jump to 45 just for the family members who live here and have prescriptions plus we are also authorized that much again as designated providers for other non-growing patients.  Currently we are growing for one patient in addition to our own use so right now we are authorized 45 plants and we wouldn't have room for that many plants between our 2 rooms, if they didn't count rooting clones and/or sprouting seeds.  The current cloning/sprouting box could even become the 3 area now and eventually the 5th area.
> 
> Good question though.




Yea I see, would be nice for that many rooms.
The only thing that would concern me is if the power just flickers the computer will be off. where as a micro controller would pick back up once the power is back on.


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## DonJones

Growdude,

Tell me about a micro controller.  What is it, how do you use it and what would it cost to control at least 8 circuits?

I can use it to control high power relays if that helps.  That is what I was intending to do any way was to run low amperage cable from the power centers through the relays on the parallel board to the relays in the power centers where the power actually will be used to cut down on the clutter and cords.

Also, I have an non-interruptible power unit that we aren't using because none of our computers are that critical, but I'm still open to suggestions.

Good smoking.  MERRY CHRISTMAS!


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## zem

Growdude said:
			
		

> Yea I see, would be nice for that many rooms.
> The only thing that would concern me is if the power just flickers the computer will be off. where as a micro controller would pick back up once the power is back on.


i have an APS unit that runs with a truck battery can run my PC for 6 hours easy but it aint cheap, i got it for other purposes and is pretty much not being used anymore


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## DonJones

Yeah ZEM!  I know the feeling, my son just brought the Non-interruptable power thing home one day.  I don't know where he got it or why he thought we needed it.

I have a 4500 watt gas generator for long term outages, but if I get much more equipment, I'll need another one.  I go tit a longtime ago because my son-in-law's brother showed up with it and told me the story that his boss had given it to him in lieu of wages.  We had had a couple of ice storms in the preceding years where the power was out for weeks here in town.  I used it once for 3 days for that purpose and then had it mounted on the semi-tractor but never used it there.

Now I have another use for it.

MERRY CHRISTMAS

Good smoking


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> Growdude,
> 
> Tell me about a micro controller.  What is it, how do you use it and what would it cost to control at least 8 circuits?
> 
> I can use it to control high power relays if that helps.  That is what I was intending to do any way was to run low amperage cable from the power centers through the relays on the parallel board to the relays in the power centers where the power actually will be used to cut down on the clutter and cords.
> 
> Also, I have an non-interruptible power unit that we aren't using because none of our computers are that critical, but I'm still open to suggestions.
> 
> Good smoking.  MERRY CHRISTMAS!



Here is an example of one made by Seimens. its $50.00 for software and everything.
hxxp://cgi.ebay.com/Siemens-LOGO-LOGO-PLC-DC12-24V-with-software-cable_W0QQitemZ220530463225QQcmdZViewItemQQptZBI_Control_Systems_PLCs?hash=item3358a3d1f9

This one I believe is 6 inputs 4 out but its just an example, when you buy one you need to know your inputs voltage and you can get different output options.

What it is is a programmable relay, it can take a number of inputs and fire outputs according to the program you write for it. 
ex. I could write a simple program to say IF input one is ON then wait 5 seconds and turn on output one.

Thats just a simple example, they have many different programming capabilities . There very easy to program using the software or using the keypad on the front.

This one uses a IF AND OR NOT type logic, 
ex. IF input1 AND input2 OR input3 NOT input4 = output1 = ON.
Timers, counters, and some even have math and analog capability.

They really are great for small automation projects.


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## DonJones

Growdude,

So basically they are just really primitive limited functioning PC?  Right?  I know that is an overly simplified answer, but I think you know what I mean.I guess my biggest question is how do I get the input sensors and know how to use them?  Also, do you know how to get the input signals into a PC?

From what I understood from your examples, they just program off of a simple fill in the blanks logic either or flow chart, correct?

Thanks you for your help.

I hope you had a MERRY CHRISTMAS.

Good smoking.


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> Growdude,
> 
> So basically they are just really primitive limited functioning PC?  Right?  I know that is an overly simplified answer, but I think you know what I mean.I guess my biggest question is how do I get the input sensors and know how to use them?  Also, do you know how to get the input signals into a PC?
> 
> From what I understood from your examples, they just program off of a simple fill in the blanks logic either or flow chart, correct?
> 
> Thanks you for your help.
> 
> I hope you had a MERRY CHRISTMAS.
> Good smoking.



The inputs are going to what is called discrete or (On Off)
Inputs could be Rez level float switches, a aux contact on the lighting relay could be (Lights on) input confirmation. ect.

More advanced controllers could have temp sensing using analog input.
Program could be wrote to control fans or heaters to maintain temperature.

I dont know how you would get inputs to the PC.


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## Tater

To accomplish what I think you are trying to accomplish you are going to need a sensor for each variable of the environment you want to control.  Then you need to learn how to hook them up, then you need to learn how to program in a computer language to interpret the data and will most likely need some pretty low level functions if you are missing with controlling parallel ports ( I would recommend C).  Actually you should probably learn a programming language first.  I'm not trying to dissuade you but you should know the scope and size of a project like this.  Also I don't know much about controlling a device through the parallel port but if you require any interpretation or comparison of data before it reaches the  parallel port you will need to have a working understanding of electronics circuits and possibly microcontrollers.

From what I've heard a pretty quick and easy way to get up and running with microcontrollers is with an arduino as it has a pretty newby friendly programming ide and libraries.  Plus an extensive online help network.

http://www.cheapvegetablegardener.com/2009/01/fully-automated-computerized-grow-box.html

You can look here for a bit more inspiration.


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## DonJones

Tater, thank you for your reply and the link.  I haven't had a chance to check it out yet but am sure it will be very enlightening.  I don't understand the recommendation of "C": in this statement.
"will most likely need some pretty low level functions if you are missing with controlling parallel ports ( I would recommend C)."
Can you explain it briefly to me?

Anyone, can you add several parallel port cards to a PC or are you limited to one port?


HAPPY NEW YEAR AND GREAT SMOKING!


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## zem

DonJones said:
			
		

> Anyone, can you add several parallel port cards to a PC or are you limited to one port?


hey there Don  you can add parallel ports, the tutorials suggest you use extra added ports for the project and not using the only port on your comp.

i havent yet started with any kind of application for the project but i have gathered my resources and i am thinkin of doing it using an old laptop, i would need to add some cooling to it so that it dont burn down due to 24/24 hour operation but it will be compact and will look cooler  i have couple of old laptops and 3 old desktop comps, i'm still researching on an acceptable price of PH EC probes that have option to input into the comps still havent been successful in finding any, the best i found has good prices for the probes but they need to be hooked up to the controller whose price is very high, any help on this will be appreciated 

Happy New Year!


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## Growdude

zem said:
			
		

> hey there Don  you can add parallel ports, the tutorials suggest you use extra added ports for the project and not using the only port on your comp.
> 
> i havent yet started with any kind of application for the project but i have gathered my resources and i am thinkin of doing it using an old laptop, i would need to add some cooling to it so that it dont burn down due to 24/24 hour operation but it will be compact and will look cooler  i have couple of old laptops and 3 old desktop comps, i'm still researching on an acceptable price of PH EC probes that have option to input into the comps still havent been successful in finding any, the best i found has good prices for the probes but they need to be hooked up to the controller whose price is very high, any help on this will be appreciated
> 
> Happy New Year!



Here is what you need, hxxp://www.66pacific.com/ph/simplest_ph.aspx

Using this circuit one could input this data (millovolts) to a analog input on the micro controller. Not sure how one would input this to a computer, and if you could you would need to know "C" programing language to be able to "interface" with the data for controling Solenoids for dosing.

Same goes for controlling temperature using a standard thermocouple input.


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## zem

thats a great link GD  do you have something similar for TDS? do you know how well it works? i would guess it works as good as a commercial one, thanks a lot it will be of great help, hopefully i will go shopping sometime in the near future once i get my plan complete


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## DonJones

Anyone,

What is "C programing" and where do I find information on it?

Thanks. everyone.


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> Anyone,
> 
> What is "C programing" and where do I find information on it?
> 
> Thanks. everyone.



C is a windows programing language. Im sure there is info on the net.

But in order to use any data coming into or out of your computer your going to need a program to interpret the data, 0 -100 mv means nothing until you write a program that will display and interpret this data into a ph of 1 - 10 for ex.


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## DonJones

I have never heard of C programming.  About the only Windows programming languages that I knew of were BASIC  and VISUAL BASIC and I know nothing about either of them.  The last programming language I used was WATFOR  (or maybe it was just WTFOR -- that was over 40years ago) which was a version of FORTRAN that had a lot of subroutines already built into it.

I'll have to check into it.

If I was going to use the computer idea that Zem has, I thing I would combine it with using the remote relays to actually control the devices simply so that I would be able to run smaller neater wiring to the Parallel port boards, although I guess If I ran longer parallel cables to the actual area of where the individual devices are that would probably accomplish the same thing.

Happy New Year and great smoking to all of you.


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## DonJones

Everyone,

Here is an interesting controller.  I found it in leafminer's thread on Auto TEMP, HUMIDITY, TIMERS control via WEB in this section.

Here is the link for it:

hxxp://cgi.ebay.com/Remotely-monitor-control-temp-humidity-I-O-WebControl_W0QQitemZ270526433070QQihZ017QQcategoryZ55834QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trksidZp4340.m444QQ_trkparmsZalgo%3DCRX%26its%3DC%252**%26itu%3DSI%252BUA%252BLM%26otn%3D5%26ps%3D63%26clkid%3D7657503133192816751

It has both  8 digital and  3 analog inputs available as well as 8 discrete on/off outputs.

Would this be a better way to go than the parallel port device we were talking about?  

Great smoking.


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## zem

Don that is great! i read through and it seems it runs alone without a comp, however it can connect to internet i dunno how. its only 1W of power surely beats a whole PC constantly on. actually this isthemain reason i dropped theidea of using thecomputer system, it needs too much power to run it. can you explain for me in simpleenglish how this thing works? thanksfor theinput


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## Tater

Everything you need to learn C and C++

www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html

PS: if live links are a no no why is the forum software set to automatically parse a post and make links live?  Kinda counter productive don't ya think?  Its silly that I have to go back and edit my post to remove url /url tags that I never inserted int he first place.

Second edit, apparently removing the tags isn't enough as it auto reinserts them, remove the link if you want but there ya go.


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## diablo_cannabis

you need to put hXXp:// in front of the address so it will not re-insert it.


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## zem

nice link tater but its way over my head and i think its explaining computer programming and im actually moving on to something better that utilizes less power something like your idea of a diy controller or the one Don linked to us cuz an old computer requires no less than 100watts and thats too much to run a 600watt room and power usage is a major issue to me. any links that can teach me build a controller? thanks


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## DonJones

I emailed the seller with a bunch of questions myself, but so far I haven't received any answers so I'm not sure just how it works.

I'll try to remember to post the answers if I ever get them.  In the meantime, maybe someone more knowledgeable than I am will check it and explain how it works.

Great smoking.

Great smoking.


----------

