# 12/1 Lighting



## Teamster6 (Mar 11, 2012)

By Dennis FordId like to talk about a subject you will here about often on cannibus dyno  The 12/1 lighting method.
The 12/1 is a very simple concept, but for some reason has been very hard to catch on.  People just dont believe its that easy or that it works as well as it does.
In a standard lighting scheme, we have all come to believe in basically one or two camps.  I wont get into whos behind the whole conspiracy of keeping 12/1 out of the masses, but if you want to hear some good **** please see John P. RN (you know who!) or Joseph Pietri on Facebook.  There are some interesting stories, but the truth is the current methods that 99% of growers use create a very telltale footprint for LEO to follow if they begin to suspect you.
Ive found that for veg growth there are the two camps of 18/6 and 24/0 (18 hours of light and 6 hours of darkness, this is not how 12/1 works though, that will be explained below).  The fact is that all plants need a darkness period to process the days energy into food and growth.  Therefore your doing yourself absolutely no favors using a 24/0 for anything other than cloning.  All you have to do is look outside, there are only 2 places on earth that ever get 24 hour light at any point, and you arent going to find ANYTHING growing there.  Cloning of course is not of nature, we are tricking nature, so we put the plant into a constant light period to facilitate this.  Well talk a lot more about cloning someday in another post.  18/6 works on the other hand, but the truth is your wasting light.  Its time to wake up!  Its time to trick nature again!
Truth is you really only need to break up the photosynthesis dark period with an hour of light to maintain veg, and in doing so you give the little lady a massive darkness processing/growth period.  12/1 is simply 12 hours on, 5.5 hours off, 1 hour on, and 5.5 hours off.  Then repeat through your entire veg period.
Again!
12 hours ON, 5.5 hours OFF, 1 hour ON, and 5.5 hours OFF for each 24 hour period.
This is only for VEGETATIVE PERIOD, we have another simple process to follow for flowering.
We are also not going to discuss nutrients or teas just yet either.  Those will be other posts coming soon.
For vegetation, this is all you need to know lighting wise.  Trust me, I was skeptical at first too, but John P. RN really convinced me after spending a couple years of listening to Joseph Pietri to try it.  It worked great for him, and now it works great for me.
One of the obvious first things youll see is a significant drop in your power bill.  Who doesnt love that?  But also your doing one other thing, breaking up the light period to prevent a multi-year footprint that LEO might find matches footprints they are looking for.
FOR FLOWERING!
Flowering is simple as well, but its important during this delicate period in a plants life cycle to follow as closely what the evolution of the plant is looking for.  Veg is different, the plant just wants to grow as big and lovely as it can.  During flowering the plant is following a very specific genetic code for its conduct to continue the propagation of its species.  This is why we adjust our lighting every 2 weeks.
When we begin flowering, move everything to 11 hours on, and 13 hours off.  You will keep this for 2 weeks, then drop the lighting period by 30 minutes, I.E. after two weeks you will switch to 10.5 hours on, and 13.5 hours off.  Continue this 30 minute drop every 2 weeks until you reach 9 hours on/ 15 hours off.  Finish your flowering at this lighting.
Trust me, have a look at some of the pics below.  These plants were all grown, in the various stages you see here, using these methods.
12/1 works people, save yourself some money, and maybe just save your ***!
Dennis Ford, Cannabis Dynamics
Big thank you to John P. RN and Joseph Pietri!


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## ozzydiodude (Mar 11, 2012)

12 hours ON, 5.5 hours OFF, 1 hour ON, and 5.5 hours OFF for each 24 hour period. Is one of the way Soma posted about using to make feminized seeds.


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## Teamster6 (Mar 11, 2012)

interesting article. It is passing on several forums. Lots of critics on boards but really no basis on testing completely that I see.

I would like to try this on one round and see what the results are. If it truely does work Im Game!!!

t6


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## OGKushman (Mar 11, 2012)

Pffff seeds take too long :rofl:


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## BackWoodsDrifter (Mar 11, 2012)

Think I just swallowed a tooth hmmm gets it out me **** I guess.

BWD


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## PuffinNugs (Mar 11, 2012)

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> 12 hours ON, 5.5 hours OFF, 1 hour ON, and 5.5 hours OFF for each 24 hour period. Is one of the way Soma posted about using to make feminized seeds.


 
that dont make me feel good about buying my Somango femmed.

stress induced hermies should never be used for breeding imo


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## OGKushman (Mar 11, 2012)

This sounds familiar though...anyone ever "waste" their money on DNAs OG18s1? 

I say waste because most of them hermed on me...but that one true male that i used to breed really must have been the cream of the crop.


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## ozzydiodude (Mar 11, 2012)

Be it light stressing or chemical stressing it's still using a non naturals way to make a plant make seeds and IMO should not be sold period. I believe the femmed seeds being made today are also why we are seeing so many hermies anymore.


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## Teamster6 (Mar 11, 2012)

Lots of Nehhh's on here but nobody that has really tested it. Hell I love tests and being I am running the Rooies two rounds next round I will try it and post the grow. I already know about what the yield should be so it will be a relative comparison.

t6


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 11, 2012)

Studies have shown that you get about 50% less yield with a 10/14 light schedule as a 12/12 light schedule.

I have to say that I take everything I see on the internet with a grain of salt...anyone can make anything look like anything they want.  All the "scientific" stuff I have read indicates that less than 12 hours of light produces less bud.

I also have to say that LEOs finding footprints is way way way down my list of worries.  What is the reasoning behind the vegging light schedule (rather the LEO thing)?


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## PuffinNugs (Mar 11, 2012)

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> Be it light stressing or chemical stressing it's still using a non naturals way to make a plant make seeds and IMO should not be sold period. I believe the femmed seeds being made today are also why we are seeing so many hermies anymore.


 
actually i believe the plants that are going to be chemically treated need to be tested to see how prone they are to becoming a stress induced hermie. a plant that hermies up easy to light leaks, or one that hermies up do to small pots, stuff like that shouldnt be used .i believe fem seeds do produce more hermie prone plants, but alot of the time it is the breeders just throwing out stuff fast. a plant that can take all the stress you can trhow at it would be a good canidate for a chemical treatment. the nanners from the treatments will be the exact genetic of the plant, i think it is. so it should still be resistance to stress and not likely to hermie up (suppose to anyways, still beileve fem seeds increased the chance somewhat even if its not alot)


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## Teamster6 (Mar 11, 2012)

Without trying it you can only speculate. I must admit I am doubting it myself but rather than turn my head I am going to test it. According to the original artical a lot of veggie farmers are also useing this lighting schedule. We will see in about three weeks I think as I will run another bunch of rooie, and black rose clones and give it a whirl.

t6


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## PuffinNugs (Mar 11, 2012)

look foward to seeing what happens out of it.

to me just seems unnatural and unneeded stress, stretching but since i never tried anything like that i have no say.


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## Teamster6 (Mar 12, 2012)

Yeah Im hearing you puffinnuggs sounds crazy but the overall energy savings on a grow would be a great plus. Yields and growth are supposed to increase. Here is another readers comments

No one is more copied but seldom matched than Mr. Delp, who to me is the top grower of our generation. The first time he impressed me he showed me 2 plants, planted next to one another, 1 completely covered in powdery mildew, the other completely clean and beautiful. He was developing mildew and mold resistant genetics.

In the late 90&#8217;s Reinhard brought back the gas lantern routine that you find in any college grade horticulture book, and applied it to cannabis. Cannabis needs only 13 hours to stay in the vegetative growth stage. The 18-6 lighting schedule in vegetation, actually stress your plants, that never get that much light in one-day outdoors. Cannabis is an outdoor plant. Growing indoors you should copy how it grows outdoors. No Cannabis growing in Afghanistan gets 18 hours of light in growth pattern. Most strains today have some part Indica in their genetic pool. Even equatorial strains don&#8217;t get 18 hours of sun a day.

The 12-1 lighting schedule is as follows 12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off, and repeat schedule. The 1 hour on in between off period fools the plants that stay in vegetative growth state! Your immediate savings are 5 hours in energy costs daily, as well as your bulbs and equipment lasting longer. But how do the plants react to this lighting schedule?

You see immediate growth response from your plants, they are happy from the added rest time. By day 14 the plants tripled in size. The plants are bushy with twice as many bud sites without topping or bending, In fact when you top and stretch your plants out, you get many more bud sites than you would have had under 18-6 using same procedure of topping and stretching plant, your growing bigger and better and faster.

So your saving 5 hours daily in energy costs, as well as your excellerated growth pattern which also saves you time and energy and equipment use. 

In the flowering stage, never use 12-12, start your flowering period at 11 hours on 13 hours off. When your are growing outdoors each day you get less and less sun light, you should copy the way the sun acts naturally in your indoor grow. So first 2 weeks of flower you go 11 on 13 off, the next 2 weeks you go down to 10.5 on 13.5 off, next 2 weeks 10 on 14 off, next two weeks 9.5 on 14.5 off and the last weeks of flower you should be at 9 hours on and 15 hours off. You&#8217;ll get bigger and better buds by copying the way the sun light works on cannabis outdoors. 

Cannabis is an outdoor plant and you should copy the way it grows outdoors indoors. The only thing that 18-6, and then 12-12 lighting schedule's do is make the energy companies rich as well as the people who sell lights and equipment, the more you use the more you spend. 12-1 lighting schedule is a more natural way to grow indoors and you well have the best results you have ever had and save as much as 50% in energy costs

HERES ANOTHER GROWERS COMMENTS : Originally Posted by reverof  
I love it when people jump when certain people say something.... you were testing this method for your own trials, but you were testing a never before strain, you stop your test in the middle and never get to see a true result.

Again i will state this: I have had a friend running this schedule 12-1 for veg and 11-13 for flower for over a year now, in a LARGE grow, his final numbers have consistently been higher yields (though not much) than 18/6 and saves a ton on util bills. We are talking 10 1000w lights in veg and 10 in flower.

Hell even on lemon haze auto's that I am running in my veg room have I seen huge difference in the 12-1 in the growth and now bud sites, these were plants i was expecting it to hinder. I grew this same strain before and average plant height was about 27 inches at harvest, my average right now is 31 inches and minimal to no stretching, honestly felt I had more top stretching in 18/6 on my auto's.

I don't get what people constantly complain about the 1 hour in between the 5.5's as its only purpose is to keep them in veg, sure they get alittle charge out of the hour but not much. Though it is not exact to nature, the 12 hours a day of light is much closer than 18/6 or 20/4.

In veg there is much more stress by many growers than a little light for an hour, and if 1 hour of light does major stress to a plant, then what do you think 20 hours of light does to the plant?

I respect Uncle ben's opinions, but as far as seen differences and actual trials done, and watching major grows using this, i cannot put this method down in any way shape or form. I am just sad I didnt pick up using this schedule well before now.


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## OGKushman (Mar 12, 2012)

Personally...I veg my moms and small clones under 24/0 using 6 T8 bulbs. That's like 180watts. Savings under 20$ a month is what your talking about in that room....The big MH comes out for ~2 weeks or so (1000 watts) before the flip; and those are 24/0... so it's not long enough of a time to worry about cost vs. the possibility of herms. 

Vegging plants is by far the cheapest part of the journey of indoor growing. I wouldn't go changing my timers around on a whim for a few dollars a month.


Besides, it's a *fact* that plants produce more bud per square inch when vegged under 24/0 due to less space between the nodes...no "night time stretch."


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## Teamster6 (Mar 12, 2012)

:ignore: :ignore: Now remember og if this works great with a great yield your gonna have to eat all your seed stock instead of plant it:icon_smile: :icon_smile: 

Ha Ha

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

t6


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## OGKushman (Mar 12, 2012)

Hey I'm down. I'll make a Poppy and Marijuana Seed bread. I got no drug tests to worry about and didn't really want to be fertile

:rofl:


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## Hick (Mar 12, 2012)

contrary information???.. fuzzy math???..



> Cannabis needs only 13 hours to stay in the vegetative growth stage





> Cannabis is an outdoor plant and you should copy the way it grows outdoors indoors.


..personally, I think we should be trying to provide a more optimal environment, rather than copy..


> 12 hours ON, 5.5 hours OFF, 1 hour ON, and 5.5 hours OFF for each 24 hour period.


 I've never seen this "in nature"....



My outdoor plant have, for over 30 years, flowered under more than 13 hours of daylight. 
August 15 sunrise/sunset/twilight for my area...
Twi N: 5:08am
Twi: 5:43am
Sunrise: 6:12am
Sunset: 7:57pm
Twi: 8:26pm
Twi N: 9:01pm

Sep. 15
Twi N: 5:42am
Twi: 6:14am
Sunrise: 6:41am
Sunset: 7:09pm
Twi: 7:36pm
Twi N: 8:08pm

My outdoor plants NEVER see only 11 hours of daylight. They always finish before reached nature. 

June 22..*15 hr *from sunrise to sunset) *19* from twilight to twilight...
Twi N: 4:18am
Twi: 5:00am
Sunrise: 5:32am
Sunset: 8:32pm
Twi: 9:04pm
Twi N: 9:46pm


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## Hick (Mar 12, 2012)

> Light cycles and seasons vary as one approaches the equator. Near 200 north latitude (Hawaii, India, and Thailand where most of the finest drug Cannabis originates), the photoperiod never varies out of the *range critical for THC production, between 10 and 14 hours.* The light cycle at 200 north latitude starts at the summer solstice when the photoperiod is just a little over 13 hours. This means that a long season exists that starts earlier and finishes later than at higher latitudes. However, because the photoperiod is never too long to induce flowering, Cannabis may also be grown in a short season from December through March or April (90 to 120 days). Strains from these latitudes are often not as responsive to photoperiod change, and flowering seems strongly age-determined as well as light determined. Most strains of Cannabis will begin to flower when they are 60 days old if photoperiod does not exceed 13 hours. At 200 latitude, the photoperiod never exceeds 14 hours, and easily induced strains may begin flowering at nearly any time during the year.
> ........THC production requires the proper quantity and quality of light. It seems that none of the biosynthetic processes operate efficiently when low light conditions prevent proper photosynthesis. *Research has shown (Valle et al. 1978) that twice as much THC is produced under a 12-hour photoperiod than under a 10-hour photoperiod.*


from Clarkes "Marijuana botany"...


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## Teamster6 (Mar 12, 2012)

Dang Hick thats quite a list:rofl: :rofl:

I guess I better hurry and get these babies started so we can see if this guy is full of it or not:yay: :yay: :yay: 

t6


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## Hick (Mar 12, 2012)

just pointing out, what I see as discrepancies t6...  
in one breath it says "copy nature" .. and in the next it says "12 on 5.5 off 1 on 5.5 off"..:confused2:....
"copy nature"..  never use 12-12, start your flowering period at 11 hours on 13 hours off. When your are growing outdoors each day you get less and less sun light, you should copy the way the sun acts naturally in your indoor grow. So first 2 weeks of flower you go 11 on 13 off, the next 2 weeks you go down to 10.5 on 13.5 off, next 2 weeks 10 on 14 off, next two weeks 9.5 on 14.5 off and the last weeks of flower you should be at 9 hours on and 15 hours off. You&#8217;ll get bigger and better buds by copying the way the sun light works on cannabis outdoors."
....those numbers are .."just whack".. IMO.. my OD gardens are always very close to harvest (within 2 weeks) by the fall equinox, Sept 22. (12on/12off)


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## Markers (Mar 12, 2012)

BackWoodsDrifter said:
			
		

> Think I just swallowed a tooth hmmm gets it out me **** I guess.
> 
> BWD


Make sure u wash that off before u put it under the pillow


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 12, 2012)

Like Hick--I am also quite unsure how this could possibly produce more.  

Most of us use a 24/7 lighting schedule for vegging as we have seen the stretching caused by a 18/6 schedule.  I cannot help that believe that a 12-5.5-1.5.5 schedule will promote further stretching.

I also agree that we are not trying to copy outdoors when we grow indoors.  We are trying to optimize indoors.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 12, 2012)

I agree. To me that kind of light schedule looks like it would seriously stress the plant rather than encourage growth. I want to encourage female flowers not male flowers :0


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## Roddy (Mar 12, 2012)

:yeahthat: :yeahthat: and :yeahthat:


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## Locked (Mar 12, 2012)

Interesting but I hve seen nothing in this thread that will get me to change from a 24-0 veg. "Just whack" sounds about right for that light schedule. Jmo


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## NorCalHal (Mar 12, 2012)

pietri is a smuggler...not a grower. Another fool tryin' to reinvent the wheel.
Folks like him start internet rumors in hopes of selling more books.
Like Cervantes.
Lets talk Dennis Ford. Head of Ford manufacturing....makers of Growing equipment.
What better way to draw website hits then spread lame information that dates back to the 60's.
Now, there has been HUGE developments in the growing of MJ. A whole industry was born of it. There are many companies that manufacture lighting.
Not one of them advocate 12/1 lighting, as it has been tried and proven inevective. Believe me, if it was a viable option, everyone would be doing it.

Saying that 24/0 veg is "unnatural" is laughable. I suppose growing indoor under artifical lighting usuing chemical nutriunts is natural. Ha.
I have personally seen FASTER veg frowth under 24/0 veg then 18/6 or any other combonation. I personally use 18/6 strickly because of power consumption...not worries about LEO, worries about the huge power bill.

T6, don't believe the hype my friend. You seem to have a good grasp on growing, dowhat you know is best.
There is NO magic method to produce masive amounts of Dank. No super nuits, no "special" equip, and no "game changing" light schedule.

If dude was master, believe he wouldn't be ripping off others ideas and touting them as his own. Just look at his equipment he is selling. Damn silly.


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## Teamster6 (Mar 13, 2012)

Jeez Guys look this is only a test. Probably not changeing any grow habits but this will lay the rumors to rest. Besides I am in between major grows and have three new blueberry strains to test. Ha Ha I have been around the block a couple of times. JUst so happens I have a shitload of these Rooie marie clones to use before the blueberrys so it will be fun

t6


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## Markers (Mar 13, 2012)

cool I'd be interested in the results. I'll never do it though, it took me way too long to get my timer to do 12/12 lol


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## NorCalHal (Mar 13, 2012)

I hear ya, I been around da block too many times, and I am not tryin' to belittle you, just to save you headaches.

Believe me when I say your time and efforts will be better off concentrating on what you know and improving your skillz. Don't spin wheels on others silly ideas, even to prove them wrong. You could use that energy to better your rooms, or super dial your nuit mix, many other things.
I've spun my wheels to the hub. When i completley focused on conditions and plant health (more root health), the herb was much better and quite plentiful!


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## Dan K. Liberty (Mar 14, 2012)

Some strains are APD (absolute photoperiod determinate) and some are RPD (relative photoperiod determinate) so I'm guessing that different crosses and even different phenos may react in different ways to messing with em like this.  If I had a big space and lots of lights I might isolate a couple and give it a whirl, but for now . . . thanks for the thread T6 - always enjoy reading and learning.

If anybody gets a big freak donkey cola via this type of manipulation, please let me know and I will try it


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 14, 2012)

Dan K. Liberty said:
			
		

> Some strains are APD (absolute photoperiod determinate) and some are RPD (relative photoperiod determinate) so I'm guessing that different crosses and even different phenos may react in different ways to messing with em like this.  If I had a big space and lots of lights I might isolate a couple and give it a whirl, but for now . . . thanks for the thread T6 - always enjoy reading and learning.
> 
> If anybody gets a big freak donkey cola via this type of manipulation, please let me know and I will try it



I googled those terms and could not find out what they meant--can you give us more info or explain that that means?  Are you talking photoperiod plants (sativas and indicas) vs autos (ruderalis)?  Other than that (photoperiod plants vs ruderalis), I do not believe that there is a significant difference in light response between strains.


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## Hick (Mar 14, 2012)

hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=vWKMhfYryvUC&pg=PA155&lpg=PA155&dq=absolute+photoperiod+determinate+plants&source=bl&ots=up16qO6gZc&sig=ZjHxcCn9o1DeA_OsGi23puDWZJ8&hl=en#v=onepage&q=absolute%20photoperiod%20determinate%20plants&f=false

I found it referenced in only one place thg.. "Ed"...
The Marijuana Grower's Handbook: The Indoor High Yield Guide


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Hick....but, I was hoping for some kind of reputable source....


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## ozzydiodude (Mar 14, 2012)

Sure didn't get that:rofl:


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## Dan K. Liberty (Mar 14, 2012)

Yep, me and Hick like the same authors.  Since I'm prepping, I dug out my old copies of MGG (Mel Frank and Ed R.) and MJ Growers Handbook (Indoor/Greenhouse Edition, Ed R.)  Really funny - coffee spilled on em, dirt marks where pages were turned, my MGG is motheaten !!  I think it's aproaching it's 30th birthday . . . still a good friend.  Sorry THG, I know I'm going way back to old school but it was a good school

I also think that with the time gone by and all the mixing of genetics from around the globe, maybe there has been an "evening out" of this trait.  Maybe it has entirely disappeared in most of what is out there now, save for a few pure sativas and rudys.  The equatorial varieties were RPD because at the equator, the photoperiod doesn't change much at all . . . rudy was so far north it had to trigger in the summer so it wouldn't freeze before it dropped seed.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 14, 2012)

I'd like to be able to say that I was just kidding....but I only was a little.  I, too was one of those that read and relied on Ed in the old days.  I also still have "The Marijuana Growers Guide" circa 1978.  I also have "The Closet Cultivator".  At one time before the internet, we all pretty much depended on the early pioneers who also wrote books.  With the advent of the internet, we had far more resources to call on.  While people like Ed and Jorge helped a lot in the past when we had limited resources, we have much more info available now.  IMO, a lot of their info is outdated and we probably have several people on this forum who have as much actual growing experience as they do.


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## Dan K. Liberty (Mar 15, 2012)

Actually, I agree with you 100% THG - and that's exactly why I'm here .  It's time for old school to get some new school.  

During my hiatus, the gear has gotten alot better, and the knowledge base has moved WAY forward and gotten huge - because Mel, Ed and Jorge turned us on to it, and now so many of us are doing it, learning from our own experiences and from each other.

So as for your tongue in cheekiness, hehe, I deserved it.  I guess I pulled the old bibles out because I'm excited about gittin r lit again . . . more as a nostolgic exercise than anything.  You all are bringing me into the new school, and this way will be alot more fun than reading an old moth-eaten book anyway

PS ... I did review some of the paragraphs covering polyploidism:joint:


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## Dan K. Liberty (Mar 15, 2012)

Hick, does this mean you're gonna subtract some of my reputation points?:hubba:


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## Dan K. Liberty (Mar 15, 2012)

Hick said:
			
		

> from Clarkes "Marijuana botany"...


 

Hmmmm . . . *200* degrees north latitude?!?

I think I been there, man - fact this OG has me at around 150 right now:fly:

I know . . . it's wayyyyyyyyyyy up there where BWD lives!!

:rofl:


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