# Basement Setup 13 x 5



## Gary Ganja (Aug 30, 2013)

okay so after HOURS of reading ive come to the conclusion that no matter how much i read, or how much The hemp goddess helps(shes so helpful ) ultimately each grow setup is virtually unique. I am going to have to tackle this like most other growers, trial and error! Ive decided not to use my closets, ive decided to partition off half of the basement and the space i will be working with is 13 feet wide, 5 feet deep. Im going to split the space in the middle making the veg side a little bigger(for clones,seedlings,autos).
Starting out, i will be using the 4' t8 lights that houses 4 bulbs (havent purchasd it yet but went to see it today at home depot) and the flowering side ill use a 600 hps light.For ventilation, im thinkng one of them 6" inline fans and wye 6x6 connector for exhaust to both rooms and of course panda film to divide everything! Am i on track here??? Any input is much appreciated! thanx


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## budz4me (Aug 30, 2013)

With that space...assuming an 8' ceiling you will need atleast 520 CFM of air.

My 6" fan does 400 and some change.  

Just stick to 5k lumens per sq ft and that will get you close. This type of setup I think will require ALOT of ventilation...which is from what I have read is severely underplayed.  Maybe get a 4" centrifugal fan for the veg and a 6" for the flower...and dont forget the filter!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 30, 2013)

Yes, each set up is individual.  But there are certain 'rules" that are applicable to all grows.  A 4' 4 tube T5 is 20,000 lumens.  It will cover a space approx. 7 sq ft.  I use a 4' 4 tube in a 2 x 4' space with no problems.  A 600W HPS is 80-90 lumens-- good for 16-18 sq ft.  You are going to have to make your spaces to accommodate the lights you are getting.  So, even though you have 5 x 13, you do not have the lighting to utilize that much space.  *Trying to make your lights light a space too large WILL result in an unsatisfactory harvest.*  Unless you get more lighting, your veg space is not going to be able to be larger than 7-8 sq ft.  Ditto for the flowering room.  With your lighting, 16-18 sq ft is max. 

What kind of inline fan?  A duct booster fan will not work.  You are going to need a centrifuge type fan.  Something like this:  hXXp://www.amazon.com/In-Line-Fan-400-CFM/dp/B002JQ14F8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1377904090&sr=8-5&keywords=6%22+fan

NOT something like this:  hXXp://www.amazon.com/LEDwholesalers-GYO2402-6-Inch-Hydroponic-Booster/dp/B003YFADW8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1377904090&sr=8-4&keywords=6%22+fan

What are you paying for the T5 from HD?  You can get a 4' 4 tube with bulbs on e-bay for $105 with free shipping and no sales tax.


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## Gary Ganja (Aug 30, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Yes, each set up is individual.  But there are certain 'rules" that are applicable to all grows.  A 4' 4 tube T5 is 20,000 lumens.  It will cover a space approx. 7 sq ft.  I use a 4' 4 tube in a 2 x 4' space with no problems.  A 600W HPS is 80-90 lumens-- good for 16-18 sq ft.  You are going to have to make your spaces to accommodate the lights you are getting.  So, even though you have 5 x 13, you do not have the lighting to utilize that much space.  *Trying to make your lights light a space too large WILL result in an unsatisfactory harvest.*  Unless you get more lighting, your veg space is not going to be able to be larger than 7-8 sq ft.  Ditto for the flowering room.  With your lighting, 16-18 sq ft is max.
> 
> What kind of inline fan?  A duct booster fan will not work.  You are going to need a centrifuge type fan.  Something like this:  hXXp://www.amazon.com/In-Line-Fan-400-CFM/dp/B002JQ14F8/ref=sr_1_5?ie=UTF8&qid=1377904090&sr=8-5&keywords=6%22+fan
> 
> ...



Hmmm so do not use that entire space then huh. What dimensions do you suggest i trim the room down to? Yea starting off i dont mind using a smaller space with the lights i am using, i ultimately want one of the hps lights for flowering as well. I definitely want to abide by the rules in regards to having sufficient amount of light/ventilation.

the fixture was 49 bucks with out bulbs might have been a t8, is there a big difference? as far as ordering off ebay ill definitely consider it for the big lights as far as the t5/t8's ill just grab at HD. You have a link for the kind of flowering hps that i could upgrade to later? 

thanx for the link for the fan! now will i need two of these one for flowering and one for veg? the rooms are right next to eachother couldnt i just run the fan with dual exhaust for both rooms?maybe one with a stronger cfm? just guessing. Ive seen grows on youtube where people only used tower oscillating fans and im wondering where is the hot air going :confused2: :hairpull:


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## Gary Ganja (Aug 30, 2013)

budz4me said:
			
		

> With that space...assuming an 8' ceiling you will need atleast 520 CFM of air.
> 
> My 6" fan does 400 and some change.
> 
> Just stick to 5k lumens per sq ft and that will get you close. This type of setup I think will require ALOT of ventilation...which is from what I have read is severely underplayed.  Maybe get a 4" centrifugal fan for the veg and a 6" for the flower...and dont forget the filter!



yeah ceiling is about 8', what are the dimensions of yout grow room? and i just got hip to the carbon filter TODAY and most certainly will be using one.


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## Gary Ganja (Aug 30, 2013)

is this a good light to use for vegging? Is this the right type? guy said hed take 100 bucks when i called 

hXXp://philadelphia.craigslist.org/for/4035452494.html


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## ShecallshimThor (Aug 30, 2013)

Not really for couple reasons
1 heat, one reason the T-5 setup is recommended is for less heat
2 I believe that to be a HPS ballast and light, you'd use them to flower but a 400 watt only does a 3x3 garden I BELIEVE could be wrong


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## Gary Ganja (Aug 30, 2013)

ShecallshimThor said:
			
		

> Not really for couple reasons
> 1 heat, one reason the T-5 setup is recommended is for less heat
> 2 I believe that to be a HPS ballast and light, you'd use them to flower but a 400 watt only does a 3x3 garden I BELIEVE could be wrong



Is there a certain wattage i should be looking for with these bulbs? i guess that depends solely on the square footage of the space ill be using right? 

Sorry for the repeat questions guys just tryna get it right. True ive been on the forum since 07 but ive been a n00b the whole time lol


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## ShecallshimThor (Aug 30, 2013)

Yes
First thing to do is decide on budget  you'll go over it quickly
Second thing i would do is decide on dimensions of both room to be built
Third is to work out how much light for that space and ventilation for that space.
Once size is set lighting and ventilation can be setup
Out of the stuff planning on being used what have you purchased? This might decide room sizes and garden seizes for you


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 30, 2013)

phillybuds said:
			
		

> Hmmm so do not use that entire space then huh. What dimensions do you suggest i trim the room down to? Yea starting off i dont mind using a smaller space with the lights i am using, i ultimately want one of the hps lights for flowering as well. I definitely want to abide by the rules in regards to having sufficient amount of light/ventilation.
> 
> the fixture was 49 bucks with out bulbs might have been a t8, is there a big difference? as far as ordering off ebay ill definitely consider it for the big lights as far as the t5/t8's ill just grab at HD. You have a link for the kind of flowering hps that i could upgrade to later?
> 
> thanx for the link for the fan! now will i need two of these one for flowering and one for veg? the rooms are right next to eachother couldnt i just run the fan with dual exhaust for both rooms?maybe one with a stronger cfm? just guessing. Ive seen grows on youtube where people only used tower oscillating fans and im wondering where is the hot air going :confused2: :hairpull:


 
Yes, there is a big difference between a T8 and a T5.  Check the lumens on the bulbs.  Don't pay $50 for a T8 without bulbs.  You can get a T8 far cheaper.....however you don't want a T8.  Spend the money for a T5, even if you need to buy online.  I buy virtually everything for growing online and have done so for 15 years.

You can most likely run both spaces with one 6" centrifuge fan.

SCHT is correct, a 400W is only good for about 9-10 sq ft.  I would also recommend an air-coolable hood or cooltube.  Bulbs of the same wattage will vary some in the lumens they put out.  Here is the way lighting works.  You want a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft for flowering.  A 400w puts out about 45,000-50,000 lumens.  A 600W 80,000-90,000 lumens, a 1000W 140,000-150,000 lumens.

The light on CL is a HPS, but like I said, I really recommend an air-coolable hood or cooltube.  That light will be hard to cool and may be too small wattage for your wants.   

Don't believe everything you see on You Tube.  Air exchange is for more than heat.  The plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on for proper photosynthesis.


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## ShecallshimThor (Aug 30, 2013)

Here's a pic of one idea of how to build, the bottom room is how it is now 13x5 and the top is how one way it could be done

Two walls to separate everything, first room can be for storage of things and I assume where access is. 

Middle room is for veg, I put in a little box to show the 2x4 T-5 HempGoddess recommends, the room is 21 sq ft so you could easily use two of them but I don't know if your flower room could keep up to it

Third room is 5x5 room with a 600 Watt 4x4 garden with a foot around it for walking and upkeep.

This is just lighting, now you gotta move on to ventilation lol


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## ShecallshimThor (Aug 30, 2013)

phillybuds said:
			
		

> Ive seen grows on youtube where people only used tower oscillating fans and im wondering where is the hot air going :confused2: :hairpull:



I would guess you didn't see their ventilation setup or the air conditioners people use to control temps, growers been battling heat indoors during summer long time.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 1, 2013)

ShecallshimThor said:
			
		

> Here's a pic of one idea of how to build, the bottom room is how it is now 13x5 and the top is how one way it could be done
> 
> Two walls to separate everything, first room can be for storage of things and I assume where access is.
> 
> ...



If you are going to use these dimensions, you are going to need 3 4' 4 bulb T5 set up--12 5000 lumen tubes.  Twenty-one sq ft requires 63,000 lumens--a 4' 4 tube T5 puts out.  A 600W is too small for a 5  x 5 room also.  You would need to step up to a 1000W or 2 600W for that space.  With more light comes more cooling needs.  You can't really make your room bigger to have walk around space as your light will disperse through the entire room.  If you have a 5 x 5 room, you are lighting 25 sq ft and really need at least 125,000 lumens

I recommend starting smaller.  A 4' 4 tube T5 will cover 7-8 sq ft.  A 600W HPS will cover 16-18 sq ft.  You should be able to make your vegging space about 1/2 the size of your flowering space unless you plan on keeping mothers.  Most of us take clones from clones and don't keep mothers.

This bears repeating--do not try and make your light do more than it is intended to do.  You will end up with unsatisfactory results.  The 3000 lumens per sq ft for vegging and 5000 for flowering are&#61185; minimums.  Most of us run more-I run a 1000W in less than 20 sq ft.  Make your space to fit the light you buy.


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## ShecallshimThor (Sep 1, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> You can't really make your room bigger to have walk around space as your light will disperse through the entire room.  If you have a 5 x 5 room, you are lighting 25 sq ft and really need at least 125,000 lumens.


Can you explain this more, I don't understand.

If I had a 4x4 garden in a 5x5 room there would be wasted light and space but why would the garden not receive acceptable light? If the plants stayed or were trained to stay in the 4x4 area I thought this would work. I understand light past the garden in not as efficient, I just thought this was a start and lights could be added to room if garden size needed to change


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 1, 2013)

Because the light does not stay in a 4 x 4 area.  The light is being disbursed throughout a 25 sq ft space.  This results in less lumens per sq ft.  If you want to use a larger room, but don't have the lighting you need to do something like make removable partitions or something like that to keep the room size to the recommended size.  Sometimes things are hard to explain, do you understand?


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## ozzydiodude (Sep 1, 2013)

Even thou you try and train the plants to a 4x4 area in the 5x5 room, you are still illuminating the 9 sqft around the plants that is light not getting used.


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## ShecallshimThor (Sep 1, 2013)

Yes I think so
Something like those white projection screens that slide up and down to keep the garden enclosed within the said 4x4 area


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 1, 2013)

ShecallshimThor said:
			
		

> Yes I think so
> Something like those white projection screens that slide up and down to keep the garden enclosed within the said 4x4 area


 
Yes, anything like that would work.  When we first started growing seriously indoors in the late 90s, we grew in a room that was about 120 sq ft.  But we built freestanding partitions out of PVC pipe and covered them with mylar to make reflective screens.  We moved them in close to the plants to create a space that was about 30 sq ft.  We could make the space smaller when the plants were smaller and move them out as the plants grew.  We could also move them aside to water and work on the plants.


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## Gary Ganja (Sep 4, 2013)

ShecallshimThor said:
			
		

> Here's a pic of one idea of how to build, the bottom room is how it is now 13x5 and the top is how one way it could be done
> 
> Two walls to separate everything, first room can be for storage of things and I assume where access is.
> 
> ...



this is very helpful!thanx for taking the time to set that up! 
I have been reading thread after thread to help me decide on whats best for me. I do not own the house i stay in but am currently working on it(dont know how long its gonna take could be 4-5 months) so i decided that in the meantime i might need something break down able just in case i had to take the setup down real fast(ie a grow tent) but once the house is mine i will for sure be constructing a room myself.

I have started some bagseed grows in the meantime while waiting on my seeds from nirvana. Ive also adopted THG suggestion of using flat white paint. I am really close on deciding which lights to go with THG gave me a link to a nice 4' 4bulb t5 i was thinking about getting but i cant find it lol! i seen a couple 2 bulb t5 at home depot today i might buy one at a time. Im also gonna order one of those fans i just have to figure out how to set it up. Lots of figuring out to do smh.


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## Gary Ganja (Sep 4, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> .
> 
> This bears repeating--do not try and make your light do more than it is intended to do.  You will end up with unsatisfactory results.  The 3000 lumens per sq ft for vegging and 5000 for flowering are&#61185; minimums.  Most of us run more-I run a 1000W in less than 20 sq ft.  Make your space to fit the light you buy.



Was thinking of a 4x4 grow tent for flowering with a 1000 watt mh light 6" Inline fan with the cargon filter.I would hope to fit 6-8 plants in the space and would hope to yield about an OZ per plant? How does this sound.

For flowering imma gonna either get a 4bulb 4ft or 2 4' t5ho lights, blue spectrum. Sound like im on the right path?


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## Dman1234 (Sep 4, 2013)

growing life would be alot easier if I could use a 10x10 room with 2 600's in the middle.


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## Gary Ganja (Sep 5, 2013)

Dman1234 said:
			
		

> growing life would be alot easier if I could use a 10x10 room with 2 600's in the middle.



I wish, but one thing i notice with the grow rooms is that you have to use them for either flowering or vegging i originally thought there was a way to partition off the middle and have veg and flower in the same tent. I wish i could use that 10 x 10 too


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## ShecallshimThor (Sep 5, 2013)

phillybuds said:
			
		

> Was thinking of a 4x4 grow tent for flowering with a 1000 watt mh light 6" Inline fan with the cargon filter.I would hope to fit 6-8 plants in the space and would hope to yield about an OZ per plant? How does this sound.
> 
> For flowering imma gonna either get a 4bulb 4ft or 2 4' t5ho lights, blue spectrum. Sound like im on the right path?




Is there a particular reason for this?
I believe you have your info backwards.
You'll want to use T-5 for veg and a 1000 W Hps for flowering, not an mh.
Mh is what people use to veg with, or they might have it in flower room as added light and spectrum but you really want a High Pressure Sodium (Hps) for flower not Metal Halide (Mh)


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 6, 2013)

SCHT is right.  The T5s in the blue spectrum are for vegging and you want an HPS for flowering.

Are you going to set up a separate vegging space?  

You should be able to get more than an ounce per plant with a 1000W and 6-8 plants if your environment is good.

Make sure you do not get a duct booster fan--it simply will not work to cool a 1000W and doesn't have enough oomph to use with a filter.  Get a centrifuge type fan


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## trillions of atoms (Sep 6, 2013)

Fans are over rated, they use that measurement w no duct or filters attached.  That number might be half of the rated after its all hooked up.


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## Gary Ganja (Sep 7, 2013)

sorry i just misworded. I want to flower with a 1000 watt and id like to veg with a 600 watt. Im gonna pick up a 2 bulb t5 this week just for this little practice grow i am doing with some bag seed. Its gonna be fun! My seeds still havent come from nirvana and when they do im gonna hold them until i have the proper setup that I'm gonna use(grow tents real lights etc) for now im just using a little closet in the basement. I been practicing germination techniques. I just been reading and practicing! Heres a "Grape Ape" she( fingers crossed) just finally sprouted after a slow germination, i like this picture 
hXXp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o248/jayrock82784/3C4B5E30-0C73-4392-8DCD-537D072CFF6B-2236-000001600D9236D5_zps2e6a488d.jpg

I had some grapes that sprouted pretty tall pretty fast. tomorrow imma transplant it until a bigger pot (going to cut a 1 gallon water jug) also i want to buy a humidity dome this week i use a make shift one now
hXXp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o248/jayrock82784/06E5E1DA-A24A-4415-BAD5-3E1301953B2C-2236-0000016027A29353_zps4b84c518.jpg


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## Growdude (Sep 8, 2013)

phillybuds said:
			
		

> I had some grapes that sprouted pretty tall pretty fast.


 
Keep the fluorescent light inches above the sprout to keep them from getting tall and thin. AKA stretched.


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## Gary Ganja (Sep 8, 2013)

Growdude said:
			
		

> Keep the fluorescent light inches above the sprout to keep them from getting tall and thin. AKA stretched.



yeah thats exactly what i was thinking, theyre kinda stretching toward the light! I'm gonna setup a different thread (grow journal) about my bag seed practice run. im really learning valuable info from just giving it a try, on top of what i have read and still am reading off this forum


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## Dman1234 (Sep 8, 2013)

your getting good advice, soon you can bury that stalk under soil and get the light right on top of it. you could do it now even.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 8, 2013)

phillybuds said:
			
		

> sorry i just misworded. I want to flower with a 1000 watt and id like to veg with a 600 watt. Im gonna pick up a 2 bulb t5 this week just for this little practice grow i am doing with some bag seed. Its gonna be fun! My seeds still havent come from nirvana and when they do im gonna hold them until i have the proper setup that I'm gonna use(grow tents real lights etc) for now im just using a little closet in the basement. I been practicing germination techniques. I just been reading and practicing! Heres a "Grape Ape" she( fingers crossed) just finally sprouted after a slow germination, i like this picture
> hXXp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o248/jayrock82784/3C4B5E30-0C73-4392-8DCD-537D072CFF6B-2236-000001600D9236D5_zps2e6a488d.jpg
> 
> I had some grapes that sprouted pretty tall pretty fast. tomorrow imma transplant it until a bigger pot (going to cut a 1 gallon water jug) also i want to buy a humidity dome this week i use a make shift one now
> hXXp://i122.photobucket.com/albums/o248/jayrock82784/06E5E1DA-A24A-4415-BAD5-3E1301953B2C-2236-0000016027A29353_zps4b84c518.jpg


 
Sorry philly, I had to take your imbedded links out.  We ask that no direct or imbedded links are posted here.  How about posting your pics up here?

I am going to recommend that you rethink the 600MH for vegging.  I think that you would be a lot happier using T5s for vegging--they put out the same lumens per watt, spread the light better, and are a whole lot easier to keep cool.  I have a 400W and a 250W MH that I do not use and another 400W MH that I gave away since I discovered T5s.

I personally wouldn't transplant yet.  IMO they are too small and probably don't have any kind of good root system built up yet.  I believe that the chance of damaging the root is great as they are still so small.  You need to keep the light really close to the top of the seedlings to prevent stretch.  A small fan blowing on them will help to increase the stem strength.

Be very cautious using bagseed.  Most bagseed is a result of selfing and the plant will have the propensity to hermie.  If you are just using them for germing practice, that is a good use for them.  If you plan on growing them out, you will need to be vigilant about watching out for nanners.  Also, if you plant on growing them out, start a lot more.  With non fem seeds, you want to start 2-3 times more seeds than you want to end up with.  

You don't want a humidity dome over seedlings.  About the only time I use a humidity dome is with clones and that is because I live in a really arid place.


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## Gary Ganja (Sep 8, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Sorry philly, I had to take your imbedded links out.  We ask that no direct or imbedded links are posted here.  How about posting your pics up here?
> 
> I am going to recommend that you rethink the 600MH for vegging.  I think that you would be a lot happier using T5s for vegging--they put out the same lumens per watt, spread the light better, and are a whole lot easier to keep cool.  I have a 400W and a 250W MH that I do not use and another 400W MH that I gave away since I discovered T5s.
> 
> ...



Ok sorry for that ill read the tutorial on posting pics here. Ok Im gonna go with a 4 bulb t5 with lights im shopping around now. I seen the post a little too late about the transplanting. Im still waiting on my Nirvana seeds so yea all this is practice! If my grape ape seed (which survived the transplant well and had grear root system) end up being a girl then i will def keep that! My other plant "grapes" didnt seem to take the transplant well as the stalk turned yellow. However it did seem to bounce back under the humidity dome. Piece by piece ill pick up the right products until i have them all in place for the real grow.


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## Gary Ganja (Sep 8, 2013)

Dman1234 said:
			
		

> your getting good advice, soon you can bury that stalk under soil and get the light right on top of it. you could do it now even.



Yeah Tomorrow im gonna raise the level or soil. I mixed the soil with perlite and cut a 1 gallon jug of water to use as a bucket. I had to tie it up with a couple zipties after transplant of thr "grapes" but the "grape ape" had a very active root system and took the transplant well. even grown a little taller since it seems. Looking forward to see how that turns out! As far as the rest of the bagseed its from reggie, seems to be no action with those seeds...could they be too old and dried up?

Also i just put some La confidential in a wet napkin today so im real excited about that :icon_smile: :icon_smile:


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