# Friendly Legal Advice



## DiamondJim420 (May 26, 2012)

This is a long post.

My sister and her husband are both (excellent) defense lawyers, and have experience defending clients being prosecuted for marijuana possession, growing, and trafficking.  They both also enjoy the herb themselves occasionally, and sometimes browse this forum.

There are many thorough posts on every marijuana web site regarding how to minimize getting busted for growing.  You&#8217;ve all read them.  They all emphasize the following (and more):

1. Don&#8217;t tell ANYONE about your grow room.
2. Don&#8217;t tell ANYONE about your grow room.
3. Don&#8217;t tell ANYONE about your grow room.
4. Eliminate plant odor.
5. Eliminate light leakages that look suspicious.
6. Don&#8217;t steal electricity by bypassing the power meter box.
7. Dispose of your hydroponics delivery boxes discretely.
8. Use reliable wiring, and don&#8217;t exceed circuit amperage that might cause a fire while you&#8217;re away.
9. Don&#8217;t EVER consent to a police search of your house or car.
10. And did I mention to never tell ANYONE about your grow room?

And so on, and so on.

But I NEVER see any posts regarding the &#8220;risk management&#8221; of getting busted for growing. Specifically, what is your plan to limit the damage if you ever get busted for growing?  To quote a dumb-sounding adage, &#8220;If you fail to plan, then you plan to fail&#8221;.

Well, based upon many discussions with my afore-mentioned lawyer relatives, I would like to give their advice on this matter.

Firstly, if your grow activities are completely legal, then congratulations.  I wish I was as lucky.  This post may not interest you.

Secondly, if you grow to sell ILLegally, then my sister&#8217;s advice is to go ahead and buy an orange jump suit and get used to wearing it, because you&#8217;ll eventually be wearing one in prison.  Someone you sell to will eventually get busted, and they&#8217;ll give you up as their supplier to lessen their punishment.

The remainder of this post is for people who do not grow to sell illegally.  Rather, it&#8217;s for those who grow for themselves and maybe a significant other as well.

I see so many posts from new growers who want to &#8220;harvest a pound every two months&#8221;.  Or who want to build 40-site cloners.  Or who want to build a 5&#8217; x 10&#8217; grow room.  My question is &#8220;why?&#8221;.  

If you ever get busted for growing, you want your grow operation to SCREAM &#8220;personal grow; not for selling&#8221;.  You want to have just a few plants, with a grow operation that couldn&#8217;t support enough plants (in any phase of the grow) to suggest that you could sell and make a significant profit, even if you weren&#8217;t planning to do so.

Be advised, the prosecutor will look for ANY reason to nail you to the wall as a trafficker.  These reasons include:

1. Having more plants than you need to supply you and your significant other.  While this specific number is certainly subject to interpretation, you&#8217;ll NEVER be able to justify 25 living clones as a &#8220;personal grow&#8221;. Not in a million years.  Most states significantly increase prison time based upon having 10 plants  or more.  This is because they know that 10 plants can easily produce enough marijuana for a seller to make a significant profit.  SOG growers, beware.  SCROG growers rule here, if they keep the number of plants down.

2. Having an obvious capacity to significantly exceed the amount needed to supply you and your significant other (even if you have only a few plants).  40-site cloners, several grow cabinets (even if some are empty), a 5&#8217; x 10&#8217; grow room, etc.  Again, this is subject to interpretation, but the smaller your grow capacity appears, the better.

3. Having any type of food-weighing scales in your house.  Yes, the police will seize your digital or analog food-weighing scales to show the jury as evidence that you were growing to sell.  Even if you weren&#8217;t.  Get rid of all food-weighing scales ASAP.

4. Having &#8220;plastic baggies&#8221; in your house.  Yes, I know this seems petty (and it is), but the police will seize all empty plastic baggies in your house to show the jury as evidence that you were growing to sell. Even if you weren&#8217;t.  Get rid of all &#8220;plastic baggies&#8221; ASAP.

Maybe the best advice anyone could ever give you is this: Don&#8217;t EVER consent to a search, and don&#8217;t answer any questions from the police.  Keep your mouth shut.  You can&#8217;t talk yourself out of anything.  Talking to police can only do harm; never good.  Keep your mouth shut and request a lawyer.

By the way, let me ask you this: What lawyer would you call if you were busted for growing?  It would be advantageous for you to NOW discretely determine which lawyer in your area has experience in defending people arrested for growing marijuana.  &#8220;Any old lawyer&#8221; WON&#8217;T do. Even if he or she is the best murder defense lawyer in the world. You need a lawyer with EXPERIENCE in defending people accused of marijuana growing.

Hopefully, none of us will ever have to exercise damage control as the result of being busted for growing.  But better to be prepared, than to wear that orange jump suit for years.


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## Grower13 (May 26, 2012)

good info....... all illegal growers should read it.


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## DiamondJim420 (May 26, 2012)

BackWoodsDrifter said:
			
		

> Um yual advertisin pilgrem or be bit a solicitation yual must be the Lawyer I must want to be callin rightr? So what yur number or give me yur address and I will comes right to yur door.
> 
> BWD


 
I'm no lawyer.  That's for sure.  Friendly advice, that's all.

If you'll recall from my post, I said to know the lawyer in your local area that can best defend you from prosecution as a marijuana grower.  And I don't think I'm in your area.  But even if I am, I'm not a lawyer.


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## Dan K. Liberty (May 27, 2012)

IMO all the advice is spot on, Jim

In fact, except for throwing out my sandwich baggies, I have taken all the precautions mentioned - including pre-selecting a lawyer who is experienced in defending growers . . . 

not something that invites pleasant thoughts, for sure . . . but I'd rather research it now, find the best person, and have their number in my phone . . . just in case . . .


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## DiamondJim420 (May 27, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Hey Jim, how do your lawyer friends suggest people "shop" around for a MJ savvy lawyer? I know here in legal states, a good way would be to attend MMJ events or ask at dispensaries (although, you're gonna get a mixed level of professionalism)...how would one know where to look in other states?


 
Well, I'm lucky that my sister and her husband are both experienced in defending "marijuana people", like us on this forum.  So I would just call them if I ever got busted.

I was on the NORML website today and noticed that they have recommendations in each state of lawyers who have such experience.  But I don't know if this info is reliable, or subject to advertising payments.  But I think it's probably a good place to start.

Otherwise, check the yellow pages.  I just did, and 3 lawyers in my area (other than my sister and her husband) claim to have lots of experience in defending "marijuana clients".


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## DiamondJim420 (May 28, 2012)

FUM said:
			
		

> That was great INFO, but you'v goy to know a lot more. Give it to us laymen. Give us our constitutional rights. What to do if the s_-_t comes down. Lawyer up.


 
As far as the law is concerned, I'm just a layman myself.  But from talking to my lawyer relatives, and from reading on various marijuana web sites, the two main things to do if busted are:

1. Keep your mouth shut.  Don't admit anything.  Don't deny anything.  Don't say anything, except "I have nothing to say".  Keep your mouth shut.  Talking to the police, and answering their questions, can NEVER help.  It can only hurt.  REFUSE TO BE A WITNESS AGAINST YOURSELF (otherwise known as exercising the 5th Amendment).  The police will bait you by saying "If you talk to us, we can help you."  They are NOT interested in helping you.  They are interested in getting you to quickly incriminate yourself so they can get home for supper by 5:00 and get to their son's T-ball game at 5:45.  And did you know they're allowed to lie to you in interrogation?  Yes, they are.  If you lie to them, it will be used against you in court.  But they're allowed to lie to you (to get you to incriminate yourself out of fear) with no consequence.

2. Immediately request a lawyer.  Hopefully, you already know the name of a lawyer in your area who has experience defending people accused of marijuana violations.

The FIRST thing your lawyer will ask you is "What have you told the police?".  His or her job will be MUCH easier if you can honestly say "Nothing".

TV shows like CSI and "Law and Order" give a bad rep to the term "Lawyer Up".  "Lawyering up" is the best thing you can do if arrested.  The police are EXPERTS at getting you to say things you don't want to say, and finding contradictions in your statements (even if you've done nothing wrong).  Good police interrogators could question you in regard to your involvement in the assassination of Abraham Lincoln, and at some point find a contradiction in your statements.


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## MJ20 (May 29, 2012)

FUM said:
			
		

> That was great INFO, but you'v goy to know a lot more. Give it to us laymen. Give us our constitutional rights. What to do if the s_-_t comes down. Lawyer up.


 
Locally we have a drugs act (which I can find online) that clearly states the charges and fines associated with possession or trafficking of illegal drugs.I know in my home town anything more than 1 kilogram is considered "trafficking" and anything less is "possession" when it comes to MJ.A trafficking charge is going to be much higher than a possession charge.This however is subject to interpretation as is all law.I've heard of people being arrested time and time again, being bullied by the police all the way to the court room because they don't even know the basic laws.

I *personally* believe that big brother is *capable* of watching us all and acting on it *IF* necessary.If you ever mention your grow or communicate it over any kind of digital device, tell yourself, you're being watched _somehow._
We live in modern times where your location can be tracked wherever your are.None of these digital devices (computers,cell phones,etc.) belong to either you or us, and the information sent through them is not guaranteed to be kept private; after all, anyone working for the host system can simply press a button and get any information they desire....think about it.

I'm not saying that this is what the government is doing, but it's my own rationale based on how things are progressing globablly, and how they have always been.If you live in a hilly/mountainous/city area with alot of neighbours in the distance or around you, chances are someone can see something @ the unguarded moment, which isn't the case if you live under a rock


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## DiamondJim420 (May 29, 2012)

PartyBro420 said:
			
		

> Great info but #3, and #4 of the second section there are ridiculous. Having plastic baggies in your home isn't going to get you in any trouble even if you do grow, and they can't say something like that as a means to believe you were using those baggies to sell mj. If they don't find the bags with your scale, or marked with weights, or caked with thc, a plastic bag is just that, a plastic bag.
> 
> As for the scale... Really.... lol. I think you may be a bit overly paranoid here mate. Just make sure again it's not caked with THC... People use a scale for lots of different things, and if this was the honest to god case, they would just not allow people to purchase this sort of stuff.
> 
> ...


 
Experienced marijuana defense lawyers disagree with you.

You speak of "what ought to be".  And in that light, I agree with you 100%.

I speak of reality.  Based upon the experiences of real lawyers who have  done battle with real prosecutors.

They will stoop lower than you can imagine to get a trafficking conviction.  Scales, baggies, number of plants, the capacity your grow equipment shows (regardless of how many plants you actually have).  They are foaming at the mouth at the thought of adding another "tough marijuana trafficking conviction" to their resume.  It makes getting reelected easier when they can show that they are "tough on crimes that poison our children".  Please.  But it's true.  And voters eat it up.


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## Hick (May 31, 2012)

*ENOUGH IS ENOUGH*....  IMO.. and in this instance that is the _only_ opinion that carries any weight, I see a bunch of kettles calling the pots black. 
  What was posted as a friendly and helpful, informative thread, has been turned into a useless mud slinging between a bunch of kitchen utensils. Yea.. you heard me. I called you all a bunch of pots n pans. All making noise for the simple pleasure of hearing yourselves make useless, irritating noise. 
And it's starting to give me a headache. *Don't* give me a headache.....


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## 4u2sm0ke (May 31, 2012)

:doh:

this thread is Doooomed


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## Hick (May 31, 2012)

ozzie.. "I" am the only one going to be allowed to express *any more* bitching in this thread.  You're all starting to sound like a bunch of third graders on the playground. 
Roddy provokes his fair share o argumentative responses, on that I will agree.  "Others" continually picking at it, only makes it fester and stink. The tossing of names and berating comments is *DONE*.. 
  If you have a problem with my moderation, please... take it to pms and we can discuss it.


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