# Do LED UFO & Other Work (you look here)



## CallMeAFool2

There is allot of skepticism about if LED Grow Lights Work or not.  There is allot of Junk out there.  If you are considering purchasing a UFO or Other high power grow lights, as the seller this:

1. Do your Light have the Latest 2d Generation Chipset by BridgeLux/Cree (fourth qtr 2008)

2. Do you use the Hi Intensity LEDs Manufactured by BridgeLux or Licensee's of their technology.

The Plants you see here are now 7 Weeks Old, just barely one week into Flowering.  They were Started Hydroponically, germination done in the drip system, no nut's, just pH'd balanced water, R/O.  At 7 Days after Plants were showing through the grow media. General Hydroponics Mixture was done at about 300-350 ppm. At week two after seeds hatched (meaning 13-14 days from plant growth), General hydroponics Grow at 500ppm and Floralicious, way less than recommend was added.  They were vegged for just 5 weeks from Growth, add 4-7 days for that for them to germ under the drips system with TWO (cause I can, one would do) UFO 90 ALL BLUE Grow Lights.  Just about a week ago, I had them out with two UFO Red/Blue 80 red 10 blue, but 3 days ago got in our FINALLY met our specs, 300W lights and I want to finish these with this light. It is overkill, but I wanted to test this light real world and they arrived after 60 days of chaning the fan system we were not happy with off the shelf.

I put it back in my smaller container, have to add water every other day, only about 5 gallons to fit in my small grow chamber.  the Light you see is OUTSIDE, not even looking down on the tops. This is our new 300W unit. This will cover a 6x8 area easily, one light, so this 4x3 is way overkill, easily could be done with one properly mounted UFO 90.


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## hork420

lol i shoulda just waited to start that thread earlier.... so your saying you like the leds? and how many plants you got in there


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## Growdude

A little hard to see, is the light only on the side?

300 watts of LED's is that a UFO unit?

Really want to see what these LED'S will do for buds so keep us up to date.


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## HydroManiac

Wow nice


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## blancolighter

Looks good, but ya should give us a nice green pic or two


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## CallMeAFool2

No, this is not a UFO. A UFO, as you know is round. That is what Vegged Them, TWO ALL BLUE LED UFOs. I had them Under Two Normal Red (80 LEDs) Blue (10)  Until I received this light you see, which is a 300W LED grow light. But after Mr. Blancolighter made me (LOL) turn the light off to take these pictures, I realize this is not going to work. I am going to move them today, back to the bathroom and hang the light overtop.

There are 6 Plants.


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## SmokeyTheBear

Looks like you know what you are doing, but not to dog on you mate. I just think led's are just way to exspensive for what they put out  The cheapest I have found UFO led's is $449 with free shipping for only 310watts. You can spend little over $300 bucks and get 1000 watt HPS. Yes your going to save money in the way long run but over all its not worth it. I know not many people have done led's grows yet and I thank you for doing so to help us all out in growing techniques  I have only read a hand full of LED grows and most of them are not finished yet. Am really curious to see how yours and everyone else grows turn out  I wish you well and for big buds :hubba:


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## blancolighter

LEDs brightness decrease signifigantly after 5 years, 30 percent in fact. So thats something to take into consideration. LEDs wont last forever. They'll need replaced about every 6 years. Not sayin this is a pro or con, just soemthing else to consider with LEDS.


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## JBonez

i have yet to see an led grow with significant yields.


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## CasualGrower

blancolighter said:
			
		

> LEDs brightness decrease signifigantly after 5 years, 30 percent in fact. So thats something to take into consideration. LEDs wont last forever. They'll need replaced about every 6 years. Not sayin this is a pro or con, just soemthing else to consider with LEDS.


 
I was under the impression that this was not true and one of the selling points of LED's....  That they have a much longer lifespan with full brightness than HID lighting......  Now 6 years is longer than a HID bulb but I had heard the term of 20-30 years thrown around for LEDS....

I am not saying you are wrong, just that I have heard differently, or maybe that is for 1st Gen LEDS... While the 2nd Gen LEDs are brighter and b urn a lil more power.. that light loss figure might be directed to them... I am not sure....


I would say I would LOVE to see this technology developed and become the holy grail that HPS is now.... But I personally think it is still a ways off.... Very interesting though.


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## TheEnhancementSmoker

blancolighter said:
			
		

> LEDs brightness decrease signifigantly after 5 years, 30 percent in fact. So thats something to take into consideration. LEDs wont last forever. They'll need replaced about every 6 years. Not sayin this is a pro or con, just soemthing else to consider with LEDS.


I'd say that is a "con."How much did this LED light cost?  That's the big "con" for me....


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## TheEnhancementSmoker

CasualGrower said:
			
		

> I had heard the term of 20-30 years thrown around for LEDS


How can someone know if LED UFOs last 20-30 years, if they haven't even existed that long?  That sounds like me saying that my iPod will still work in 2029.


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## 84VW

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> How can someone know if LED UFOs last 20-30 years, if they haven't even existed that long?  That sounds like me saying that my iPod will still work in 2029.



that is just an estimate, im not sure where they get it from but its just like any bulb that says on average its good for x,xxx amount of hours

i've had a few cfls only last a month before they failed


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## TheEnhancementSmoker

84VW said:
			
		

> that is just an estimate, im not sure where they get it from but its just like any bulb that says on average its good for x,xxx amount of hours
> 
> i've had a few cfls only last a month before they failed


Yeah, I realize it is an estimate, but it has to be tested before you make those claims.  You don't think a tire manufacturer just picks some number out of the air and just randomly says their tires are good for 30,000 miles, do you?  They test it, and find out, so they don't get sued.


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## The Hemp Goddess

CallMeAFool2 said:
			
		

> No, this is not a UFO. A UFO, as you know is round. That is what Vegged Them, TWO ALL BLUE LED UFOs. I had them Under Two Normal Red (80 LEDs) Blue (10)  Until I received this light you see, which is a 300W LED grow light



Well, I'd put my plants vegged under 216W of T5 light up against these vegged with 300W of LED....


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## CallMeAFool2

If you saw or were offered a light of 300W for 400ish, please do not waste your money. You are buying junk.

It is called enviornmental chambers. That is how they push anything to test endurance.  The tire comparison is a good one, but does not fit, as they can put a car on a test track or imobile device to test tireware. You cannot make time go faster without Adding Chamber testing. Thank god for that, I relied on many pieces of equipment in my Military Career that could not wait 20 years to ensure they would work that long 

I am not here to convince anyone, and those of you that are almost crossing the line to call me personally a liar, please watch your roll, I do this as education, I could care less if I ever post another photo, I am the one putting my neck on the line, as others that post photo's for your viewing pleasure.

I know of no one with brains and tech sheets ever to say these LED last 20-30 years, but I also have never read any tech sheets from reliable sources that say this loss one poster speaks of. that is just not true, according to the real specs.


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## CallMeAFool2

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Well, I'd put my plants vegged under 216W of T5 light up against these vegged with 300W of LED....



I use Pioneer VI units also.  If you were a guy, I would say we are in a pissing contest, please do not feel that Ms Goddess.  I am not a banner for LEDs, I am just offering up my results. I do not Use MH anymore either for energy savings. I will take my two Pioneer VI units each with 4 Grow and 2 Bloom Tubes and two UFO 90s. The only way I will veg ever again.  Now that I have all BLUE LEDs, I wanted to use them on these. I will continue to use my PVI & UFO or a more rectangular light we are trying to get the maker to make at 125 Watt...


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## The Hemp Goddess

CallMeAFool2 said:
			
		

> ...If you were a guy, I would say we are in a pissing contest, please do not feel that Ms Goddess...



LOL--Not at all.  This is a site to educate people.  If better results can be achieved with less watts, that is great, but in the case of LEDs, I just don't think they do.  What I am saying is that LEDs--at this time--simply do not outperform other types of lighting for MJ.  I don't think that anyone has said that they do not work, just that they do not work nearly as well.  Trust me, I follow _every_ LED grow on here.  I would _love _having a light source that works as well for a fraction of the energy cost.  While LEDs may be the light of the future, they are not there yet, and IMO, have a ways to go.


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## TheEnhancementSmoker

I'll consider switching after they stop using HIDs in Holland....


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## leafminer

As I have noted before:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35982&page=4
HPS produce more lumens than LEDs. In fact the LEDs are roughly equivalent to fluoros, except that you can specify the color temperature as whatever you want. If I spend more money on lamps I think I will rather buy the Grolux bulbs for my HPSs.


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## CallMeAFool2

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> I'll consider switching after they stop using HIDs in Holland....



The largest LED importer is in Holland. LEDITGROW. They purchase from the same factory I do, the original patent holding company. They purchase and obviously sell so much, even with the way Chinese will rip anything, they would not let me put LEDitGrow as my Logo. He travels to the factory a few times a year I am told by my Sales Woman.  Must be selling them or using them somewhere. 

I think over the next couple of years, most serious large growers will be using mostly all T5 Flouros and LED.

As I have said, I am not the banner boy for LED and I sell 30 to 1 HID lighting at this point. It is a to each his own and that is fine with me.

200 - 280 nm 	UVC ultraviolet range which is extremely harmful to plants because it is highly toxic.
280 - 315 nm 	Includes harmful UVB ultraviolet light which causes plants colors to fade.
315 - 380 nm 	Range of UVA ultraviolet light which is neither harmful nor beneficial to plant growth.
380 - 400 nm 	Start of visible light spectrum. Process of chlorophyll absorption begins. UV protected plastics ideally block out any light below this range.
*400 - 520 nm 	This range includes violet, blue, and green bands. Peak absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and a strong influence on photosynthesis. (promotes vegetative growth)*
520 - 610 nm 	This range includes the green, yellow, and orange bands and has less absorption by pigments.
*610 - 720 nm 	This is the red band. Large amount of absorption by chlorophyll occurs, and most significant influence on photosynthesis. (promotes flowering and budding)*
720 - 1000 nm 	There is little absorption by chlorophyll here. Flowering and germination is influenced. At the high end of the band is infrared, which is heat.
1000+ nm 	Totally infrared range. All energy absorbed at this point is converted to heat.

The bold fields are what we are shooting for. Whatever gets you there the most efficient, cost and production is what we should use. As T5 has shown us this with much less wattage, LEDs will continue to show us.  In 5-6 Years, I bet no one will be using Metal Halide, nor High Pressure Sodium in their indoor gardens for all plant types


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## CallMeAFool2

leafminer said:
			
		

> As I have noted before:
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35982&page=4
> HPS produce more lumens than LEDs. In fact the LEDs are roughly equivalent to fluoros, except that you can specify the color temperature as whatever you want. If I spend more money on lamps I think I will rather buy the Grolux bulbs for my HPSs.



You are missing the point. Lights are rated at how bright it makes a room/space, not what the plant absorbs or uses.  This is the biggest misconception with Tubes and LEDs.  Only an ignorant man would discount that as we do with chemotherapy treatment, we are targeting with new medicines closer to what it needs and not 30 year ago chemo that was just a broad killer of everything.  Plants are the same.  Lumens is not the correct way to show numbers to a plant, any plant, it is a great way to say how bright a light is.  It is not what we can see, it is what a plant can use. So many are just missing the point.  My 1000W lights in MH/HPS are brigther than my 325W T5 and LED Units, but both of the latter provide MORE CORRECTLY what the plants want.

I am not banner LED boy, I just want others to look at the advancements since 2002 and it is 100 fold.  There are still those that will not switch to Fluros, that have been proven to provide more at less watts of what the plant needs, especially in the blue spectrum (you see white with your eyes).  We all want the biggest Tomato's, the larger Egg Plant, the biggest tightest buds, no doubt.

I am not saying LED, T5 provide less than HPS/MH, but if you are not growing for sale and your bottom line is not profits, it only makes sense and let us agree for argument's sake that HPS is the best (for an example) if you can grow whenever you want and the yield hypothetically is 15% less with T5 vegging and LED flowering, but you save 60-80% energy costs, your lights last much much longer, isn't cost even a consideration?  that is a smart way to look at the argument until everyone sips from the same cup


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## CallMeAFool2

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I would _love _having a light source that works as well for a fraction of the energy cost.  While LEDs may be the light of the future, they are not there yet, and IMO, have a ways to go.



Do you have LED?  With all your experience with your ladies, when was the last time you used an LED and what was it.  You are a very influential person here, one very respected and your comments are taken as serious as a young girl who thinks daddy is still great (wish my 24 year old still thought I was the best thing since sliced bread as she did until about 17)

Knowing how much you are into this, I must believe you have used the latest generational stuff since the last quarter of 2008, the newest chip sets from Bridglux/Cree.  What was the wattage and what was your results.  You mention you veg now with your tubes, what to you flower with, HPS?

Thanks...


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## northernlightssmokn

Wonderful thread!! Very informitive and precise. Is the 300w system the same LED's as the 90w red/blue UFO? Are you suplimenting with any other light source in flower? T5's?


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## TheEnhancementSmoker

CallMeAFool2 said:
			
		

> The largest LED importer is in Holland. LEDITGROW. They purchase from the same factory I do, the original patent holding company. They purchase and obviously sell so much, even with the way Chinese will rip anything, they would not let me put LEDitGrow as my Logo. He travels to the factory a few times a year I am told by my Sales Woman.  Must be selling them or using them somewhere.


My point is...name one big-time Holland GROWER who perfers them.


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## massproducer

For someone that is not the poster boy for LED's, you sure seem to have a lot to prove...  I wasn't even going to post anything in this thread until i see you depicting THG as a 17 year old nieve girl, which could not be farther from the truth, but anyway...

While yes you are very correct, light spectrums are one of the most important factor in determing wheather a plant can make use of a certain light source, but we already know that both HPS and MH both contain massive amounts of usable, in fact a MH is basically the closest thing you can buy to natural daylight, that is why they are used in places like stadiums where pure white/blue light is required... MH have a very high CRI some like in the 80s, and put out light in mainly the  340 - 500 nm or 4500 - 6500 K
While HPS puts out light light in the red spectrum at around 550 - 800 or around 2500 kelvin...  But both MH and HPS contain somewhat full spectrums which is very beneficial, also the small amount of UV light that MH's produce help to increase the potency of cannabis as resin is in part a defence system against UV light...

Now while I commend you on your work with LED's, you have to understand that you are not by anymeans the first to document a LED grow here or online, and I respect that you are using the new technology but I can not see the new technology being that far ahead of the previous technology.

High times, treating yourself and several other mags have done compairison grows using real LED UFO's and they all have the same conclusion...  They work good for vegging but are crap for flowering because of the intensity...  And yes once we determine that we have the correct spectrums, the most important thing becomes intensity and penetration, which LED's lack

So if I were you I wouldn't be holding my breath for all the serious growers to give up their HPS's in exchange for LED's


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## northernlightssmokn

*You stated:*
*1)* I wasn't even going to post anything in this thread until i see you depicting THG as a 17 year old nieve girl, which could not be farther from the truth, but anyway...

*2)*also the small amount of UV light that MH's produce help to increase the potency of cannabis as resin is in part a defence system against UV light...

*3)*High times, treating yourself and several other mags have done compairison grows using real LED UFO's and they all have the same conclusion... They work good for vegging but are crap for flowering because of the intensity.

*4)*They work good for vegging but are crap for flowering because of the intensity... 


OK here we go....

First we all need to :ccc: 

1)You had very good information to share that I found so informative that I broke out the note pad. Thankyou for sharing it!! You did not want to share it?
It took your misinterpritation of a good analogy to get you to post....
WOW. Anyway I am sure that he did not call her that but rather was identifying a situation. The situation being a person stating facts that were told to them and not being open minded to a rebuttle even though the original "facts" were little more than hearsay. He also stated he was shocked that a person of her stature would fall into this catigory. He also addressed her with honor and respect. Just my opinion.

2) This is pretty cool information. Do you have any sources that explane this in laymens terms or textbook style readings??

3) November 2008 High Times. Page10 has a small article on LED's and page 104 has a VERY fascinating article by *Jorge Cervantez* himself with a 3ft by 3ft room, one *ufo* and a yield of 600 grams. Hmmmm....I dunno about that and I am LED fan!! 21 oz's wet or dry in a 40" by 40" room under ANY lighting??? Even I dont buy into that claim but the man is GOD of POT growing so I dont know. 

4) Im baked. Absolutly ripped. Not big buds, nothing to boast about, but shure beats cheap bag weed from the street corner. 

These LEDS give hope to future closet med growers everywhere. No ventalation system needed for heat. Such a small amount of power consumption allows for tennants to grow a small closet where rent includes power and not be a red flag nor be ripping off the landlord. The risk of fire in your apartment or the risk of a power overload on a breaker that requires a building manager or matinance man to retrip is significantly reduced.

HPS out perform LED's in areas held dear to growers that have the freedom of a slumlord or longdistance landlord. Home owners have an advantage that condo leasers or large scale apartment renters do not have. In that respect, LED's have an advantage that HID's do not. Remember that not everyone can grow a cash crop and not everyone wants to. People studying LED's now are paving a way for low cost Highly effective low energy LEd grow lights. Think about how things evolve. Reel to reel to record to 8track to cassett to cd to mp3 to mp4 to.....Remember the first microwave? Now what if no one bought a microwave in the beginning?....lol youd be a hungry stoner waiting for the oven down at the quicky mart to heat your burrito....lol
BOLTH LED's and HID's are great in theyre own ways. So what if the buds are small...I guess I am blessed by being spared the sheer agony of the inconvenience of breaking off a piece to load a bowl....pregrown bowl weed. Nice. 

NICE!! BOWL WEED!! I coined that! ME!!! LED BOWL WEED. The next generation of smoke...the new _OL' School_ my friend!

:bong:


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## pcduck

This was a very interesting and educational thread till the bashing started.


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## northernlightssmokn

I was also wondering, do you keep track of the height of your plants at harvest to see if they are shorter in an LED grow?


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## Cannabiscotti

anyone on here read in the new best of high times issue. there has been some 6 or so LEDs created that measure 2 inches by 2 inches and handle 200Watts each!! still years away from implementation as these costed over 1 million a piece.... but could you imagine? one LED 200Watts and it put out over 200,000 lumens! i'll take 5 of those (3 red 2 blue) over a 1000HPS any day....


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## smokingjoe

I've not seen an LED grow that's particularly impressive in terms of yield. 

Screw the cash croppers; If I'm going to risk my career and potentially deprive myself of credit anywhere, I want the best bang for the buck. 

Power consumption is in my opinion a moot point; it's only 25%, and 25% of bugger all is bugger all at the end of the day. It's interesting one refers to the owner of their property as a slum lord but also have concern for excessive power consumption.  Running my desktop computer 24/7 would cost as much as a 400W grow.

You still need ventilation regardless the light source; plant's can't survive very long without fresh air containing Co2. You still need fans, just not as big, but you still need them. I've had a closet ebb flow grow with a 400w Son-T in a lowbay that had a regular bathroom fan extracting air and passive intakes; temperature was rarely excessive even with outrageous ambient temperatures we have in my part of the world. (plenty of water helps)

I'm not advocating this as best practice but it works.

Until LED outperforms HID there is no way I'm handing over any shekels to purchase them.  

I would be interested in the 200W megalumen led's when they are out and don't cost the GDP of a small african nation.


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## TheEnhancementSmoker

All I know is that if I had to buy more expensive LED lights for a grow, because I was worried about power consumption, I'd just grow outside somewhere.


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## northernlightssmokn

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> All I know is that if I had to buy more expensive LED lights for a grow, because I was worried about power consumption, I'd just grow outside somewhere.


 
HAHAHAHAHA 

I needed a good chuckle...

There is so many things wrong with that line of thought...how could you say something like that...ok so you said it...now it would be realy cool if you would back up your claim with facts...

A person lives in a cookie cutter 15 story apartment on the 11th floor where power is paid by the landlord and read through privatly owned meters for each apartment. The power company has one base meter(primary metered)  For what ever reason that person can not deface the home in anyway.The tennant doeas not want to sacrifice not using an apliance to offset the power cost. They have a small car that is kept in a garage uptown and like millions of Americans..they seldom drive. They know NO other growers or sellers and only want a small amount of smoke on hand. 

OK since your so smart on how EVERYONE can grow outside, figure this one out.. I'll be expecting a quick and precise yet logical and practical solution. Remember..no cash crop and 3 oz's is the state max there for a card holder. No selling excess weed, no hole cutting for ventalation system and no more than 300w of TOTAL power consumtion for the grow in ALL stages.

This is going to be good information! Please use details if you wish and understand that I am very interested in ALL ways to enhance the ability to grow a closet grow for personal smoke so if you have a better alternative to HID's or LED's please let me know. 

Thanks.


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## TheEnhancementSmoker

Well, that question doesn't have any merit to me, because I wouldn't grow in an apartment.

However, you then wrote "if you have a better alternative to HID's or LED's please let me know" which doesn't make any sense to me either, because my stance the whole time has been that LEDs are a poor alternative to HIDs.  I use HID for my growing, and have no intentions to switch until I see some real benefit to "upgrading" to LEDs.


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## blancolighter

CasualGrower said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that this was not true and one of the selling points of LED's.... That they have a much longer lifespan with full brightness than HID lighting...... Now 6 years is longer than a HID bulb but I had heard the term of 20-30 years thrown around for LEDS....
> 
> I am not saying you are wrong, just that I have heard differently, or maybe that is for 1st Gen LEDS... While the 2nd Gen LEDs are brighter and b urn a lil more power.. that light loss figure might be directed to them... I am not sure....


 


			
				CallMeAFool2 said:
			
		

> I know of no one with brains and tech sheets ever to say these LED last 20-30 years, but I also have never read any tech sheets from reliable sources that say this loss one poster speaks of. *that is just not true, according to the real specs*.


 
Nope, my info was about 2nd generation LEDs, which still deteriorate by 30 percent after 5-6 years...

And Call Me a Fool, how about some tact here? You just trashed quite a respected person here. So what if she hasn't grow with LEDs, she has a weath of knowledge at her fingertips with the internet and quite a brain. Put the two together and you can get some good FACTS about LEDs and can come up with reasonable conclusions. She brought up points for a good DISCUSSION if anything (she was more stating her opinion about LEDs, but said nothing degrading to you), and your trashed her with name calling. Now who sounds more like the 17 year old girl? (hint, not her)

Also, before calling me a liar, why don't you step off your high horse and get your facts straight. (I highlighted the phrase you were completely wrong about above and tried calling ME out on)

Here's a link to Cree's LED Product testing report: hxxp://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlamp_reliability.pdf

At the very bottom of the report, you don't even have to sift through all the info, it says exactly what I've been saying about LED deterioration.

And just so you don't try to blow off my knowledge like you did THG, yes I have and am growing with LEDs, a Procyon to be exact. I also love and am fully supportive of others LED grows, but the other guys are careful with their responses knowing what a hot subject it can be. I suggest you do the same for everyone's benefit.


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## The Effen Gee

...and people think I'M crazy for swearing by 600's...

...and veggin' under HPS...

"What?"

You don't use thowie's?" they say..

I would like to utilize a better lighting system, but LED's seem to weak. 
In real life, next to a HID bulb, I like to grow bit, strong, beefy, healthy, rugged, durable plants that look like they are happy.

Not squat, stretchy, weak, sickly reachy plants like I have SEEN under LED systems.

Great for cactus, lettuce and growing 1/8th in your room in my book...


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## blancolighter

I think it depends on your style of grow, I think. I like to veg from clone for about 4 weeks under the LEDs, which seems to work great. I think its that magical point where the plants are decent sized, but dont have enough of a canopy to make the LEDs ineffective. I hear what you're sayin though Effen, lucky for me, veggin with the LEDs just fits my growin style...


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## CallMeAFool2

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> My point is...name one big-time Holland GROWER who perfers them.



I must plead stupidy here, I UNFORTUNATELY do not know any other grower but my limited experience and you great people here.  I do pray for the day we may have a country like Holland or Canada where we can take Tours like we do Liquor and beer Facilities that can show off the great growers of America. That will a great day for us all.  The Route 66 of Marijuana growers, how Choice would that be..... We can always hope....


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## CallMeAFool2

I am sorry you feel I trashed anyone. I was trying to be very careful to be respectful to all.  

Some in this thread need to smoke some more pot (or less) as whatever happened to being open minded. Is this not what we are all about, freedom or choices, let me trash my lungs in my own home if I want, who is the government to decide that for me?

Asking a person what they used and when they used it, when they say one line snippets.  You may not agree with me, but when you are a leader or one of great respect, that I hope that is all I have ever shown anyone, with that comes great responsibility.  SURELY anyone can have an opinion.

Do you think it was disrespectful to ask someone when and if they used something last of something they basically say does not work, but maybe one day?  Or did I say something else that I am missing.

Why the attacks?  Don't smoke my pot, kewl, I thought as novice as I am, and I believe I have said that in about every thread I have posted, that I have been only growing my own use again after some 35 years, the last 18 months.  I just apparently mistakenly assumed that showing my plants with and without LEDs (see my other posts) might be of some use for or against their wonders.

Yes, until this last grow, I was, as I have said, as skeptical as most, I have used MH for two cycles, then I was GIVEN an original UFO with ballast because you could not convince me and I was not laying out then, $500 plus bucks. Then my last grow before this one, I used my Pioneer VI units, two of them at 325w each with two UFOs Red/blue 80/10, then this very last one that is now just went into flowering for a week or so, was done with just two all blue UFO, no supplemental and now was using two standard second gen UFO 90s, then when I received in our first re-fanned 300, I tossed them back in my little Rubbermaid Unit and put the 300 outside, as picture shows.  It is not going to work, I let the plants get too tall for this unit and need to have the light coming from the top, I think I said that.

I think I also have said in this or another thread, I import them, while there is not as much profit as one may think per dollar of cost, I have 50-75K worth in the warehouse at any given time, so i can pull anything I want, and do.

Lastly, let me say, IF I OFFENDED anyone, certainly not intentional I am truly sorry for this.  If I have read anyone's posts on this site, it is Ms. Goddess, I hope she did not feel and I will go back up this thread to check, that I was being in anyway disrespectful.  Yet I do not say that to the many of you that have been quite rude to a simple poster, posting pictures.  If I was an advertiser here or hocking my wares, I could better understand. I do not want you to know me, because the man is here, we all know that and that would not be smart.

I am going to take a break from this for a bit, my intent was not to upset anyone's apple cart, I guess I must not read my posts the same way one or two of you are and I respect your comments, however harsh. toward me just trying to provide info and experience in pictures.

As we said in my day as teens in the 70s. Peace... as the kids seem to say today Peace out.... and move their arms and fingers in some sort of weird way.

I will post updated pictures here each week, I started the thread and will continue to show pics.  Enjoy, debate, hate...I just do not have it in my 50 year old azz to argue.  I am and have been without pot for almost 2 months, if this grow HPS and LED comparisons do not die on me, that should never be a problem again.  Maybe I need to smoke a bowl, sorry if I offended anyone, ESPECIALLY Hemp Goddess.


----------



## pcduck

I don't think anyone minds a good debate. But when you are debating a personal preference no will win that debate. So that sorta makes the whole thing a moot point.

And as far as the one point of having to use leds because of your living environment and that is why they are better? Does not make any sense to me.jmo...As far as the landlord thing I am one, and in my experience most landlords don't care what you do as long as 1) pay your bills 2) don't cause trouble that the popo are at the residence constantly.jmo and my $0.02

Ps. I also did not buy a big screen TV when they were $20,000.00 either.


----------



## northernlightssmokn

Callmeafool2 keep up the good work and please keep us posted on your progress and problems. It would be great if you could keep us in the loop with prices on LED's since you have all the good 411...lol There is talk of a 3rd gen UFO and that will reduce cost of 2nd gen for liquidation.


----------



## SmokinMom

*Hey everyone, lets stay on track without the insults and flames.  Everyone is entitled to their opinion, please remain respectful.  Thanks.*


----------



## HydroManiac

I agree with mom


----------



## The Effen Gee

Insults and flaming are useless in the face of facts.

Perhaps in ten or twenty years we will have really good low wattage efficient, powerful lighting that throws the lumens good enough for decent crop.

I have yet to see a good harvest come out of any micro, cfl, led or any other means besides sunlight and HID lighting.

If anyone has some secret that I know nothing about...please share.

IMO, if you want a small, personal grow..with short plants. Maybe even a short sog setup...than I see the use for LED's...for Veg.

But why cut yourself short and save a little bit of cash sacrificing powerful light with efficient? 
When efficient kills your bottom line is it really efficiency?


----------



## northernlightssmokn

HydroManiac said:
			
		

> I agree with mom


 
Thanks for agreeing not to flame but I failed to see any information in your post about lighting or LED's. I just wanted to make sure you didnt forget something or maybe there was a link that did not get added to your post...?


----------



## northernlightssmokn

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> Insults and flaming are useless in the face of facts.
> 
> Perhaps in ten or twenty years we will have really good low wattage efficient, powerful lighting that throws the lumens good enough for decent crop.
> 
> I have yet to see a good harvest come out of any micro, cfl, led or any other means besides sunlight and HID lighting.
> 
> If anyone has some secret that I know nothing about...please share.
> 
> IMO, if you want a small, personal grow..with short plants. Maybe even a short sog setup...than I see the use for LED's...for Veg.
> 
> But why cut yourself short and save a little bit of cash sacrificing powerful light with efficient?
> When efficient kills your bottom line is it really efficiency?


 
Thanks for the opinion. 
most if not all of what you said is indeed fact. This is exactly why there are proffesionals and novices like me that wish to aid in the perfection of LED's and be part of the process that introduces a good working LED to the growing market. You said maybe a small scrog grow.. I agree with you 100% do you have any other information on this or is this your opinion? I would love to find a strain of mj that is suitable for a soil/scrog/led /micro grow that can be set up in a VERY small closet and produce a few 3 or 4 oz's every couple months with a small amount of effort and power.


----------



## The Effen Gee

well...

Personally for a SOG I would do a heavy yielder indica...or any good sativa like cindy or Skunk #1...something that gives you decent single huge colas. 

So you wont have to worry about "Unders" or the popcorn. I would focus on a one nug stick farm if I had a smaller area.

I have seen a few LED grows, and I have seen even more flouros...IMO...they work about the same, LED's worse for flower.


----------



## HydroManiac

I like keeping a low yielder but holding 2 flowers boxes in aprox 3 weeks differ


----------



## wienstien

i bought my grow UFO on ebay for less than 300$ with shipping, im currently running that with a 400w HPS bulb, and so far im really liking the results


----------



## CallMeAFool2

I had to take the 300W off that grow, it was just too much and too close the way I had it and was detrimental. I did not ever move them from that box and have too as the water is low and since it was from one of those hydro kit places, I have to move it tomorrow, as all the wires come out the back through a hole and the 90W UFO I have on it the last two weeks will be moved into a bath hall. I will update pictures on the small flowers tomorrow (9/22/09).  I found two males and yanked them about 10 days ago, about a full 10 or so days into flowering.  So now I remember they were not Fem seeds   So now I will have to rely on the pros to maybe tell me which strain I am growing. It is either WW, NB, SG, PPP (not PPP because I have some of that growing and the leaves are way different).  Will update once I move it and you see how turned to the side these things have grown to the UFO out from the box.  Just do not laugh at my light, laugh at the stupid grower LOL


----------



## Rockster

northernlightssmokn said:
			
		

> Callmeafool2 keep up the good work and please keep us posted on your progress and problems. It would be great if you could keep us in the loop with prices on LED's since you have all the good 411...lol There is talk of a 3rd gen UFO and that will reduce cost of 2nd gen for liquidation.



 I'll second that.I'm happy with my hps atm but leds are improving by leaps and bounds and I'm sure we'd all like to reduce our carbon footprint wouldnt we?

Please do keep us posted CallMeaAFool as my kid brother was talking about buying some UfO,s soon and I'd like to advise him about best kit to buy but know nothing about led lighting.

All the best with the grow.


----------



## CallMeAFool2

Okay, I finally moved them yesterday, they have been flowering for what, not quite 3 weeks?  I let them get to crazy tending my better second grow, first to work out for me. yes, I droll as I have no smoke since late october, but those little 12 grams from autoflowers. that was gone in 3 days. poor me.  Anyway, these stretched way too much, I have them tied around the bottom, as I cannot move them now, they are too inbedded in the 3" pots with roots.

Moved to ONE UFO 90 more than a week an a half ago. These plants are never going to look good, so we are just doing the buds to show ONE UFO.... 3 straggled stretched plants. my bad


----------



## CallMeAFool2

Slow and moving well. I am using the same nut's with all my grow, yet I am starting to wonder if HOT IR UV if your nut's are a little high do not assist in burn.  I mix all up the same and my LED growths just do not seem to burn leaves. It seems a little slower in the flowering, but I have no real experience, seems to be the day.  Looks great to me and I know I like the energy and heat savings.

Looks healthy to me...


----------



## hashplant420

i see your using straight red for your flowering. think a little blue might help them a bit inoticed mine like the little bit of blue better then just the red ..
i got a grow panel pro got it for a really good price though so didnt even pay a quarter of the actual price


just my opinon dont got to listen to me.....


----------



## CallMeAFool2

actually, it is standard UFO 80 RED 10 Blue.  I totally forgot about this thread, until I was trying to remember the timing, so I just looked this up. Lost my father in Law on the 30th of Jan after bypass, 4 days later massive heartattack in the hospital. I pretty much did nothing but remember to put water and nuts in when I would hear the little pump screaming as this is not a very deep hydro system. I think 5 gallons full to the top, so normally add about 4 to leave a little air between the top of the root system to water. In the last two weeks or so, actually it has been approx 11 weeks and I still am not seeing the tri's looking amber yet.  I have added a 400W HPS with the UFO as I wanted to bulk up the buds a bit more.

I really like LED lighting for so many reasons. Low electricity, I see things happen to plants that I do not see happen under HID. Healthy looking, but I am realizing that while you will save a ton of money over a 4 month grow, a ton of electricity, but supplementing the last few weeks with more light, be it LED or HPS. One LED 90W per plant at 3-4 feet is just not enough, IMO with these 1 W LED.  So, I believe LED until the last 3 weeks, then supplement with one 400W per 3 plants and it bulks well. I will put pictures up later today.


----------



## bf74

small test batch of just rooted blueberry clonesx7- 1 illuminator tri-band spectrum ufo-2x45w glow panels-20w of 660nm red bulbs-24w of cree white leds-12-warm/12-cool-key to balancing out the spectrum-I got 3oz dry


----------



## crozar

my only thing why i am thinking of led right now because it doesnt produce heat.
it is good for growing in a small box of 20x20x40


----------



## bf74

crozar said:
			
		

> my only thing why i am thinking of led right now because it doesnt produce heat.
> it is good for growing in a small box of 20x20x40


 thats what made me switch, small cramped spaces, living things, and heat dont mix.


----------



## bf74

my homebox is 2x2 4' high.I'm happy with my results, it's just that people have to understand that when comparing led and hid nobody wins the argument.Apples and oranges, as the old cliche goes.


----------



## JBonez

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> well...
> 
> Personally for a SOG I would do a heavy yielder indica...or any good sativa like cindy or Skunk #1...something that gives you decent single huge colas.
> 
> So you wont have to worry about "Unders" or the popcorn. I would focus on a one nug stick farm if I had a smaller area.
> 
> I have seen a few LED grows, and I have seen even more flouros...IMO...they work about the same, LED's worse for flower.



funny you say that, im growing 25 skunk#1's from clone, pruning for single cola formation, in a 4x4 grow table in 1 gallon/hydroton filled containers in ebb&flow with 40g res.

Going to attempt a g/watt and see how good i really am.


----------



## bf74

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> well...
> 
> Personally for a SOG I would do a heavy yielder indica...or any good sativa like cindy or Skunk #1...something that gives you decent single huge colas.
> 
> So you wont have to worry about "Unders" or the popcorn. I would focus on a one nug stick farm if I had a smaller area.
> 
> I have seen a few LED grows, and I have seen even more flouros...IMO...they work about the same, LED's worse for flower.


You're right about soggin it.Add some side lighting and you're gold.And the flowering problem with leds has been pretty much solved due to recent advancements.I've found that using 660nm reds(most ufo's use 620-630) that flowering is every bit as profuse as hps.Realizing that 1w diodes arent going to break the canopy much, I decided to use the leds greatest advantage-Their lack of heat, and basically line the iside of the tent with as much usable light as possible and see what happens.The use of white leds has been neglected in most led grows I've seen.That just proves there are still as yet undetermined wavelengths that our beloved plant uses for flowering purposes.But just a little white-15% or so-does the trick.Blue and red go a long way, but not all the way.Orange seems to beef up the flowering process as well-20w in my tent(out of 250) has def helped the cause.


----------



## CallMeAFool2

I totally forgot about this thread, when I started a new LED from scratch.  While I can only have about 2 years at this, here is my truth

LED alone from start to finish will save you about $30 a month over using 400HPS.  Nothing Vegges' like them. I like the All blue i have been using the other thread and you could keep a mother  in a case with a UFO ALL BLUE and keep it alive until you screw it up.  You do loose 15-25% in Size with ALL LED.  I (and lord knows I know nothing) am established now that i will use ALL BLUE UFO from seed for 45 days, clones, being the age respectively of the parent, so you decide how much veg time you would want.

I am not flowering 3 that I raised (other LED thread by me) and after bringing them over, I have one under 400HPS, ONE under 120LED and One Under 90W LED. It was the plant that I dropped the light on and broke in half in Veg. Would have used as mother, but none of this is going to finish before i have to hit the road for a couple months.

I would use the LEDs that I need from now on, about the week or right before in Flowering when I push the nut's, I will supplement ONE 400 HPS in the top and middle of a 7x4 area with the LEDs hanging over each plant. Run the HPS 5 hours in the 12 hour cycle say mimic the sun at the peak times a day and that bulks them up and you still have saved a ton of money on replaceables, electricity and your green makes you just a little greener with a smaller carbon print.  All this means nothing to those doing it for profit, they want it fast, want it now and what are 600 a month electric bills to them at $300 an ounce.


----------



## crozar

i need to speak a professional about LEDs lol
because i am thinking of buying 1 , hXXp://catalog.myosram.com/zb2b/b2b/start.do?browsername=mozilla%2F5.0%2520%2528windows%253B%2520u%253B%2520windows%2520nt%25206.0%253B%2520en-us%253B%2520rv%253A1.9.0.10%2529%2520gecko%2F2009042316%2520firefox%2F3.0.10&browsermajor=5&browserminor=5
all these lights are available to buy in my city  
but i have to customize a reflector does LED require a good reflector ? or it beams from the top and no reflector is needed?


----------



## bf74

crozar said:
			
		

> i need to speak a professional about LEDs lol
> because i am thinking of buying 1 , price doesnt matter
> 
> all these lights are available to buy in my city
> but i have to customize a reflector does LED require a good reflector ? or it beams from the top and no reflector is needed?


 No reflector needed-the beams are all set to a specific angle for max coverage.IMHO-stay away from the current 1w diode tek.The lumigrow at 50x5w led diodes is the sickest I've seen.Not only does it have higher watt diodes, but the color(nm) specs-sorta like color temp-are all on point for both veg and flowering.


----------



## crozar

can led ufo work for all cycles of the growth ?


----------



## The Effen Gee

crozar said:
			
		

> can led ufo work for all cycles of the growth ?



I say no, but that is coming from a grower who likes large yields and strong plants.

Perhaps for veg and for flower if you mix spectrums, like with either a MH or HPS the led's are going to give you more of a full spectrum...but in reality...that really does not matter.


----------



## bf74

I dont know, I'm getting some pretty good results with led, and I have quite a few hid grows behind me.So take it from someone who has worked in both camps-you can get good yields with led.And as far as strong plants-my leaves dont fall


----------



## bf74

And flowering with leds has nothing to do with mixing spectrums in my experience.It's the deep red(660nm) reds that work great in flower, once again from my own experience-for whatever thats worth.peace


----------



## crozar

daaaamm bf , lol that looks like your doing surgery for those 4 plants lol.
looks scarey , i hope the plants arent scared , maybe they think theyr growing in mars not earth.
btw how does the bud taste and feel like ? same as normal indoor HPS lights ?


----------



## The Effen Gee

bf74 said:
			
		

> I dont know, I'm getting some pretty good results with led, and I have quite a few hid grows behind me.So take it from someone who has worked in both camps-you can get good yields with led.And as far as strong plants-my leaves dont fall



wow, those are CUTE!!

ummm...btw, those plants look severely overfed and your leaves are SUPPOSED to fall off in late flower, if not you are feeding your plants too much food.

That looks like less than an oz harvest, waste of time in my book.

Led's just aren't there yet. Wont be for a long time.

Trust me, if they were I would be the biggest LED advocate you would have ever known of. Promise.

I get pretty tired of the $1200+ electricity bills....

But....

Numbers don't lie. Pounds per light, not ounces here.


----------



## bf74

Awwww, did I upset you? Always need to be right? Hate having your little belief system shook up?Or are you just broke?Add sarcastic and unpleasant-you must get *** like a toilet.And it was 3oz dry from 7 just rooted clones-my grows have been documented here and on other websites, and all in all its been positive vibes.I have a current grow, check it out-I'll be sure to keep an eye on yours.Now, tell me what you know about led culture.What is your experience.Or do you just go by what you hear.And attacking someone unprovoked.Might as well add douche-bag to that list of positives.


----------



## bf74

And pounds per light?So this site is only for cash croppers?Apples and oranges dude, and what about par-care to discuss?For someone not interested in leds you sure waste alot of your time on led threads.


----------



## pHAT_DADDY_06

FIRST OFF HELLO TO THOSE WHO SEE THIS. I'M FROM DUVAL FL AND I'M TRYING TO START GROWING WEED. I STAY IN SOME HUD PROJECTS SO I NEED INFO AS TO MY CLOSET SPACE (3x3) AND HOW MANY PLANTS I COULD POSSIBLY GROW.:hubba: :holysheep:


----------



## The Effen Gee

Wow, sorry to hurt your feelings, but lets be realistic: led's are good for small, really small indoor grows. Not everybody who smokes pot, or likes to get high for that matter grows their own weed.

Who cares about growing for profit?

Its legal wher I live and the police could not be happyer, I am putting all the drug dealers out of the mj biz in my area.

...and as far as pounds per light, what's the point of doing something if your only going to half-*** it anyways?

Led's do NOT produce a large harvest. I know from PERSONAL grows using those damn ufo's with supplimental led boards. Horrible yields per sq ft. Not so bat gram per watt though.

They just lack the intensity. No penetration. At all.

Now, here is a teaser for MY latest grow:


----------



## ishnish

haha... you guys are funny.  if you wana argue, get married or something..
i think it's cool seeing all kinds of grows.  to each their own.
:48:


----------



## crozar

calm down guys , i will rip both of you soon lol , il be running 1 - 350watts LED board on the top , and 2x 600watts HPS , 1 in each side
and for the other sides 2xT5 + 2xT5 @ 54watts

 tell me about the yeild of that lol , im not being a nazi against all , but im in the race , so are you readyy  ready for the race are you readyyy! o o o oooyooo are you ready Vrymmm Vrymmm..

after all that if my grow sucked i will really hate myself.


----------



## bf74

lol, it's all about havin fun.no hard feelings dude, were just 2 guys approaching the same subject differently.Good luck on your grow.


----------



## The Effen Gee

Ditto, I hope you can get bountiful harvest and convince me to hang up my huge, hot, overpowered eqipment.


----------



## Head_Down_Under

Yes at the moment LEDs produce about 40 - 45 lumens per watt, which is roughly the performance of a CFL, and less than HID etc.
But the whole story is more involved: LEDs emit a narrow frequency with virtually no power wasted as useless colours or heat (like green or uv). 
Assembled as a panel, they take up a lot of space per lumen, compared to HID, but then maybe the idea is not to build a paneland rather, drape them in strings over the plants. 
They cost a lot initially, but should last practically for ever (unless they are over driven to the point of frying). Consider any old electronic appliance: by the time its ready to be thrown out, the little coloured LEDs glowing on the front panel are more than likely still working.
Right now I'm researching to build my own LED light set. I shall make it a new thread here and will be hoping to swap experience and wisdom with other tinkerers.
Oh BTW I'm new to this site, its the idea of LEDs that given me an interest in growing indoors (sick of losing outside plants to bad karma neighbours)
Cheers


----------



## Head_Down_Under

but i have to customize a reflector does LED require a good reflector ? or it beams from the top and no reflector is needed?[/quote]


LEDs are almost entirely directional, they need no reflectors for most of the light, but mounting them on a white board, or using reflective surfaces around your plant will grab the stray rays


----------



## Hick

crozar said:
			
		

> calm down guys , i will rip both of you soon lol , il be running 1 - 350watts LED board on the top , and 2x 600watts HPS , 1 in each side
> and for the other sides 2xT5 + 2xT5 @ 54watts
> 
> tell me about the yeild of that lol , im not being a nazi against all , but im in the race , so are you readyy  ready for the race are you readyyy! o o o oooyooo are you ready Vrymmm Vrymmm..
> 
> after all that if my grow sucked i will really hate myself.



I'm curious, how you plan to keep the leds close without it blocking the "real" light???


----------



## stonedrone

I keep seeing people say that LEDs somehow save money. I do not understand this at all. 

First of all you need multiple LED panels at what $400 per or more. You only need one mh/hps for less than $300. How many panels do you need to penetrate the canopy after a month or so of growing, I'll say three?

Second a 400w HID will cost less than $30 a month to run at 18 hours a day plus a new bulb or two every year at ~$40 per. Aren't 300w of Leds the same amount to run as 300w of HID?

Lastly if and when you need to replace LEDs you have to buy a whole new panel, according to Blancolighter that's every five years.

So, in conclusion, let's add it up.

HID..................3LEDs
$300................$1,200
1yr elect.          
~$360..............$200ish?
Replacement bulbs/panels
$80..................$240 (1/5 of total cost)
Total annual damage
$750.................$1,600

Obviously I'm missing something here. Please don't insult me here. If I am wrong go ahead and let me know how so.


----------



## Macktheknife

Well at the risk of getting my head shotoff in this thread I think I will add my two cents.

There was a great article in Maximum Yield in March 09 about a website called *Greenpinelane* which you all might find useful to look at to settle some of these issues about LED grow lamps. The article is online at Maximum Yield in the March section.

Greenpinelane is a website run by this hobby grow guy named Steve out on the east coast who has been testing all the LED lights out there to see how they stackup against each other.

He has tried the UFO, the Procyon 100 and the Smartlamp 600 and the Smartbar 1000 and a few other panels and stuff I think.

Basically what he did was grow tomatoes in a 3 ft x 3 ft area and log his grows from beginning to end so everyone can compare the yields and grow times. There are tons of photos and commentary.

You can all checkout his tests by googling greenpinelane and following the link.

There is also a forum there for people with questions for him about LEDs and aeroponic growing (which is how he grows).

Overall, the tests show that there seem to be two breeds of lights out there. The UFOs and panel types can do a certain amount of growing, but the leader is the Smartlamp 600 which kicked butt. It got like 4 to 8 times the yield of the other lights growing tomatoes. The guy says that this light in his experience is like growing with a 600 watt HPS.

In the Max Yield article they show that with those kinds of results once you calculate the savings in electricity and bulbs, it costs something like 40% less to own and run this puppy compared with HPS even though the cost to buy is higher at first. The guy apparently pays 13 cents for his electricity which is cheap compared to what I am paying.

So you all might find it good to check out the article and the online tests to figure out what lights work and which ones don't.

So that's my two cents.


----------



## Shawn69

Maybe i could shed some light on the subject.I have grown and am still growing(a very small project,4 plants)and have a very good friend growing large quan with LED's,yes blue high powered 2nd gen LED's are the good for veg,but through extensive exp have added cfl's to the mix,you see the blue LED makes ur plant bushy and ur leaves over sized,but has no reaching abilities(in other words the plant won't be very tall w/just blue LED's) but with cfl's it will grow nice and tall and very bushy(quickly).then its to the HPS to do the flowering,I also use the red ufo 2nd gen during flower(I feel it helps bud's get bigger and helps a little w/light bill)It's all trial and error.Most peolpe who dont know always criticisize what they don't understand,LED's work very well..I will be putting some pics of my friend and I's projects so u can see what I'm talking about...


----------



## Shawn69

And you deffenitly save an assload of $$ using LED's and you don't need as much ventilation as the heat is nonexistent,you people really need to do ur research when you speak,maybe Mr. stonedrone used the 1st gen LED and feels burnt.....................


----------



## Hick

Shawn69 said:
			
		

> And you deffenitly save an assload of $$ using LED's and you don't need as much ventilation as the heat is nonexistent,you people really need to do ur research when you speak,maybe Mr. stonedrone used the 1st gen LED and feels burnt.....................



Always talk, but seldom any "pudding"..   "I" want to _see_ these led grows tht are superior. Then.. and only then, will I start believing all of the propaganda. 
I think that we've already said that leds are advancing, they're 'getting' there. And may well be the next 'big thing' in indoor cultivation.
  But to date, I've seen only "one" grow of proclaimed, solely leds, that was worthy of true praise. And that is bf74s in this thread.
I am not profoundly fond of a brand spanking new poster coming in condemning the memmbers in his very first post. It puts a "bur under my saddle blanket"..


----------



## Head_Down_Under

Thanks for the pics of your first Grow bf74. Besides the commercially assembled panels I see you also used 12 ww and 12 cw LEDS. Did you wire them up yourself, or did they come assembled? I'm interested to know as I hope to include them to round off spectrum in the rig I'm planning


----------



## Growdude

Shawn69 said:
			
		

> blue high powered 2nd gen LED's are the good for veg,but *through extensive exp have added cfl's to the mix*,you see the blue LED makes ur plant bushy and ur leaves over sized,but has no reaching abilities(in other words the plant won't be very tall w/just blue LED's) but with cfl's it will grow nice and tall and very bushy(quickly).*then its to the HPS to do the flowering*



Why promote them when you dont even like them?


----------



## stonedrone

Shawn69 said:
			
		

> And you deffenitly save an assload of $$ using LED's and you don't need as much ventilation as the heat is nonexistent,you people really need to do ur research when you speak,maybe Mr. stonedrone used the 1st gen LED and feels burnt.....................


 
Can you tell me what exactly about my math was wrong? I never claimed to be an expert in the field or to have used LEDs myself. I clearly stated that I thought I must be overlooking something. I would like to know what I'm missing here as I haven't seen anybody else do much of a cost comparison.


----------



## bf74

hey guys, and gals, I'm not here to say whats better, more efficient, less costly-whatever.Currently I have a led/cfl grow and I'm having a blast with it.I'm not a cash cropper, just a little guy with a little tent and some little plants- heres a couple pics first at day 1 of 12/12 and then a couple more from today- day 25 that is.Blast away-


----------



## bf74

actually the last pic is of day one but you get the idea.peace


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## bf74

Head_Down_Under said:
			
		

> Thanks for the pics of your first Grow bf74. Besides the commercially assembled panels I see you also used 12 ww and 12 cw LEDS. Did you wire them up yourself, or did they come assembled? I'm interested to know as I hope to include them to round off spectrum in the rig I'm planning


No man, I'm not at all experienced with wiring up these things-the 12 watt white bulbs you can grab off of e-bay for like 35 bucks-they're made with cree 1w diodes and have fairly decent coverage.


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## bf74

stonedrone said:
			
		

> Can you tell me what exactly about my math was wrong? I never claimed to be an expert in the field or to have used LEDs myself. I clearly stated that I thought I must be overlooking something. I would like to know what I'm missing here as I haven't seen anybody else do much of a cost comparison.


In all fairness to Mr stonedrone these units are unreasonably expensive atm- to the point where I dropped the cost comparison thing, but that never mattered to me in the first place-or anyone else that seriously gets into this tek.It's not for everyone, and I can clearly see the reasons why. This is extreme experimental tek-still in it's infancy, and appeals to the tinkering type-like me.Hey, any grow system that provides YOU satisfying results cant be all that bad.So lets just have fun, and see what happens.


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## bf74

Hick said:
			
		

> Always talk, but seldom any "pudding"..  "I" want to _see_ these led grows tht are superior. Then.. and only then, will I start believing all of the propaganda.
> I think that we've already said that leds are advancing, they're 'getting' there. And may well be the next 'big thing' in indoor cultivation.
> But to date, I've seen only "one" grow of proclaimed, solely leds, that was worthy of true praise. And that is bf74s in this thread.
> I am not profoundly fond of a brand spanking new poster coming in condemning the memmbers in his very first post. It puts a "bur under my saddle blanket"..


aw shucks Hick you actually made me blush, thank you- I'm actually extremely flattered.Dont be a stranger my friend.


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## crozar

Hick said:
			
		

> I'm curious, how you plan to keep the leds close without it blocking the "real" light???



your right hick , but i planned alot of things and 1 of it is to get LED but now im prosponding that for the end of next year , right now i have only my HPS600watss with 24 T8 tubes for my tent , and my plan faileled because of space problem 
the only idea i come up with in using my 24 - T8's is doing a clone box 80x120x48 and have all the T8's 36 watts use for cloniing


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## bf74

heres my hps grow guys, and gals,the difference can be clearly seen.


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## bf74

yep, proofs in the pudding, I have more pics of this grow in my thread, and as you can see-leds by themselves are NOT going to produce HID results-at least I couldnt do it.


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## Cannabiscotti

I use to love the idea of LEDs. but i'm beginning to think it's a moot point in the future of grow lights. have you guys checked out the plasma bulbs? just check out youtube-search: plasma light bulb. i wrote a paper in my college class about LEDs. i figured the number of tons of CO2 that would be prevented from going into the atmosphere if every house swithced over one bulb to LED. don't remember it too well now, but i did get one of the 2 A's that were given out


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## bf74

Ohhh yeah I saw that video-and wow-did ya ever see something that small,that bright? Have you heard anything about commercially available units-I need another project!


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## Cannabiscotti

LG makes one- not sure where to get it but heres the specs in brochure form:

http://www.nlites.co.uk/PSH07_brochure.pdf

googled and found this one for sale for $3,210.17....thats what it converts to USD

http://cgi.ebay.at/Mikrowellen-Schw...-LG-PSH07_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ350109557675


BF-let me know how that project goes!


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## bf74

thanks man, looks like it'll be about 3 months before I can get one of those bad-boys, without eating pbj's for dinner for a month-lol. Thanks again man, you'll be the first to know.peace


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## BOYSENBERRY

Wow good thread sorry I gotta but in and say this. In 5 to 10 years LEDs will be good give them some time but hey we went from magnetic ballast to digital and now the digital has special bulbs.It's all going to get better and we all have a right to choose what will work best for you. I myself will stick to the digital hps my $2000.00 dollar pg&e bill dont bug me LOL .I cant wait for the nuclear powered ballast  LOL


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## bf74

I love my Lumatek- what advancements in hid will occur in the next few years? Exciting times we live in.


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## Cannabiscotti

HOWEVER--LEDs do still have a place in the grow room now-- green LEDs put out light that doesn't disrupt the light cycle. So that can be helpful.  and If i had some LEDs i'd use em along side of the HID for sure!!


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## bf74

lol, yesterday I saw a green led head-band- like a miners helmet light-are we high tek heads now or what.


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## BOYSENBERRY

hXXp://www.ledgrowlights.com/university%20of%20minn%20study.PDF[/URL]


			
				CallMeAFool2 said:
			
		

> There is allot of skepticism about if LED Grow Lights Work or not. There is allot of Junk out there. If you are considering purchasing a UFO or Other high power grow lights, as the seller this:
> 
> 1. Do your Light have the Latest 2d Generation Chipset by BridgeLux/Cree (fourth qtr 2008)
> 
> 2. Do you use the Hi Intensity LEDs Manufactured by BridgeLux or Licensee's of their technology.
> 
> The Plants you see here are now 7 Weeks Old, just barely one week into Flowering. They were Started Hydroponically, germination done in the drip system, no nut's, just pH'd balanced water, R/O. At 7 Days after Plants were showing through the grow media. General Hydroponics Mixture was done at about 300-350 ppm. At week two after seeds hatched (meaning 13-14 days from plant growth), General hydroponics Grow at 500ppm and Floralicious, way less than recommend was added. They were vegged for just 5 weeks from Growth, add 4-7 days for that for them to germ under the drips system with TWO (cause I can, one would do) UFO 90 ALL BLUE Grow Lights. Just about a week ago, I had them out with two UFO Red/Blue 80 red 10 blue, but 3 days ago got in our FINALLY met our specs, 300W lights and I want to finish these with this light. It is overkill, but I wanted to test this light real world and they arrived after 60 days of chaning the fan system we were not happy with off the shelf.
> 
> I put it back in my smaller container, have to add water every other day, only about 5 gallons to fit in my small grow chamber. the Light you see is OUTSIDE, not even looking down on the tops. This is our new 300W unit. This will cover a 6x8 area easily, one light, so this 4x3 is way overkill, easily could be done with one properly mounted UFO 90.


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