# My 2nd Grow.  Crystal clones



## surreptitious (Dec 17, 2009)

ok, so now that i got most of my stuff set up i'm going to document it here.  i let a friend borrow my memory card reader so i dont have any pics, but i took some tonight and will upload them soon.

while i'm blooming my first batch of clones i'm going to start a new batch.  hoopefully, by the time they are done blooming i'll be ready to bloom these.

my mothers were grown from seeds from here.  
hxxp://www.marijuana-seeds.nl

i'm using their crystal.  which is white widow crossed with northern lights.
hxxp://www.marijuana-seeds.nl/crystal-limit.html

Today, i cloned my mother.  I took a total of 20 of them.  I'm using root riot (hxxp://www.growthtechnology.com/prop-rootriot.asp) and ClonEx rooting gel.  I'm also using a plastic tray with spots for the root riot and a clear plastic dome to keep the humidity high.  I'll be misting them a few times a day with plain distilled water.  I dont need 20 plants, i've only got more clones in case any dont make it.  I plan on keeping 12-16 of them.

they are currently under T-5 high output flourescent lights.  The entire veg cycle will be under the T-5s.

once they are rooted i will be planting them in 1 gallon square buckets with hydroton.  I'll be using the top feed recirculating hydroponic setup.

The nutes that I'll be using are the 2 part General Hydroponics Flora Nova series.  I'll be following the simple schedule that is on their website.
hxxp://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/feeding_charts/GH_KeepItSimple_Recirculating.pdf

I will also be using their Floralicious Plus and KoolBloom.  I will also be using Humbolt County's Own Bushmaster, Snow Storm Ultra, and Gravity later in this grow. 

I think that's all for now.  Any questions?

Would it be better to keep updating this same post or have a new post for each update?

thanks,
surrept


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## 2Dog (Dec 17, 2009)

crystal is exciting nice choice cant wait to see how this goes.


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## surreptitious (Dec 18, 2009)

2dog, thanks!  i'm looking forward to it as well.


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## warfish (Dec 18, 2009)

Sounds like you have an exciting grow ahead   Hope it all goes well for you with crystal galore    I'll be watching as you go!

Warfish


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## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 18, 2009)

Hello  my  new  friend...I  too  grew  out  some  crystal from  seed.nl...Had  some  Monsters  out  back  last  summer...cnt  wait  to  se the  pics...Im  apull  up  my  crate  and  :watchplant:...oh....and  post  a new entry  each time..people that want  to  fallow along  will  subscribe..but  also  keep  in  mind  sme  dont  start  posting  in  here  until  ya  are  flowering...IDK  why  just  how  some  roll...Ill  try  and  allow  along  best  i  can...

take care and be safe:bolt::bong:


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## surreptitious (Dec 18, 2009)

hey guys, thanks!  i'll be sure to keep updating even if there are no replies.   flowering is the most rewarding phase!   well other than the smoking phase.


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## surreptitious (Dec 29, 2009)

ok, i actually found the cable that goes to my camera!  so, that's hot lol

anyways,  pictures of when i first took the clones.  they are under a 2 ft 4 bulb T5 light.


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## surreptitious (Dec 29, 2009)

today, i transplanted them into hydroton.  i originally wanted to do 16 plants, but i only had enough hydroton for 13 plants.  maybe i'll make a trip to the hydro store to get yet another bag of the stuff.  you'll notice that the humidity dome is still in there.  i'm going to keep it in there with the leftover clones until i decide to by some more hydroton or just roll with 13 plants.  we'll see.

first picture shows the roots.  they look good to me and are ready for some nutes.  some of the leaves are yellowing a bit, but thats ok.  before they develop a root they use the leaves for nutrients.

again i'm using flora nova series from general hydroponics.  I'll be using their "seedling" nute formula even though these guys are not seedlings.  After about 10 days or so I'll kick them up to mild growth formula.

Anyways.  5 gallons of RO walmart culligan water, 12.5 ml of grow nutes, and then pH'd to 5.8.  I will be topping off my rez each day with this same RO water and pH'ing it to 5.8.

they are sitting under 1, 4ft 4 bulb T5 with 2 grow bulbs and 2 bloom bulbs.  trying to get the most out of the light spectrum.  i also have the 2ft 4 bulb T5 with 4 grow bulbs.  Hopefully, I'll be upgrading that soon to a 4 ft 6 bulb and use the 2ft one just for the cloning step. currently, the lights are aound 6 inches over the plants.  i'm going to let their roots take hold in the hydroton and then move the lights closer...few days or so.

anyways, so far so good!


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## surreptitious (Dec 30, 2009)

ordered today another T5 light.  6 bulbs 4ft long.  i dont like that 2ft thats in there right now.

i'll use that 2ft for strickly cloning in the future.  then i'll have 4 areas.  a mother area, clone area, veg area, and the flowering tent, oh my! lol


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## midibullets (Dec 31, 2009)

Cool setup and strain, i'll be checking this one out


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## 2Dog (Dec 31, 2009)

the roots on the clones look awesome!


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## surreptitious (Dec 31, 2009)

midibullets said:
			
		

> Cool setup and strain, i'll be checking this one out



thanks mate!


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## surreptitious (Dec 31, 2009)

2Dog said:
			
		

> the roots on the clones look awesome!


thanks 2dog.  the clippings really seem to love the ClonEx rooting gel and water.  this is my 2nd batch of clones ever and none of them died that i wanted to live.  i was looking at the ez-cloner aeroponics thing at the hydro store the other day, but it's $300.  I cannot justify spending that much money when I've  got something that works.


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## surreptitious (Jan 5, 2010)

find attached some updated pictures from today.  the plants seem to be responding well to the nutes i have given them.  The taller ones are like 3-4 inches.  I've rotated some of the smaller ones directly under the light until my 6 bulb 4 ft T5 shows up.  Should be here next monday.  In a few days i will be feeding them the "mild growth" formula from GH.  5 ml of FloraNova Grow and 0.5 ml of Floralicious Plus per gallon.  Prolly keep the rez at 5 gallons for now to make sure all is well.  next rez change I'll kick it up to 10 gallons and GH's "growth" formula.

I think they look good after being transplanted only a week ago!


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## surreptitious (Jan 6, 2010)

ok, i've started to do some LST training on these guys.  let me know what you think.  for some reason this feels very weird.  like why am i messing with nature here.  what did nature do to me?  but i guess it's better than getting cut.  although, they might get cut anyway lol


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## surreptitious (Jan 11, 2010)

my 6 bulb HO T5 showed up today and i installed it.  plants seem to be doing ok with the LST.  i'm going to start tying down more of the new growth soon.  i think i'd like these plants to have 4 or 5 good tops on them.

check out the updated pics.


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## surreptitious (Jan 11, 2010)

does anybody happen to know what would cause this?

the tips of that leaf are turning brown.  shouldnt be nute burn and my pH is adjusted to 5.8 daily.


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## tester (Jan 11, 2010)

could be too much heat, have the brown bits gone crispy:?


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## surreptitious (Jan 11, 2010)

tester said:
			
		

> could be too much heat, have the brown bits gone crispy:?



highest temp the room gets is 85 degrees Fahrenheit.  i'll check the brown bits and see if they are crispy.


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## tester (Jan 11, 2010)

temps not the prob if your lights too close it will burn them like that


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## surreptitious (Jan 11, 2010)

i have done the hand test on this and my hand doesnt burn.

they are T-5 lights, dont put off as much heat as HIDs.


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## surreptitious (Jan 11, 2010)

i have raised the light up a few inches just in case.  i dont think it will hurt any.


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## surreptitious (Jan 12, 2010)

tester said:
			
		

> could be too much heat, have the brown bits gone crispy:?



the brown bits have gone crispy.  i have raised the light.  how close can you get t-5s to the plant?


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## Growdude (Jan 13, 2010)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> In a few days i will be feeding them the "mild growth" formula from GH.  5 ml of FloraNova Grow and 0.5 ml of Floralicious Plus per gallon.



Mild states 2.5 ml FLoranova grow and 1.0 Florolicious plus.
Its never a 50/50 ratio like that.

Flush and start with Floronova grow only its all you need in vegg anyway.

hxxp://www.genhydro.com/calculator/index.html


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## surreptitious (Jan 13, 2010)

Growdude said:
			
		

> Mild states 2.5 ml FLoranova grow and 1.0 Florolicious plus.
> Its never a 50/50 ratio like that.
> 
> Flush and start with Floronova grow only its all you need in vegg anyway.
> ...



growdude, maybe i'm missing something, but i used the calculator and have attached the screen shot.  it's for a 1 gallon rez.  mild growth says 5 ml of grow and 1 ml of florolicious plus.


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## surreptitious (Jan 15, 2010)

after further review, i did mess up.  i only used .5 ml per gallon of florolicious plus, when i called for 1 ml.


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## warfish (Jan 15, 2010)

Things are looking pretty good   I'm sure the minor burns on the tips will stop for you, at least I'm hoping for you  

I would like to follow along if you dont mind:watchplant:


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## surreptitious (Jan 25, 2010)

in this thread people said that my burnt tips might be nute burn and that i should back off the nutes for a while:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=51624 about 

well, i did the complete opposite.  i kicked it up to what GH's schedule calls "growth"

5 gallons of RO water from wally world
50 ml of Flora Nova Grow
5 ml of floralicious plus

attached are pictures 10 days later.  while i am still getting some burnt tips, i am still getting new growth and they are getting bigger.  look at the picture i posted on 01/11/2010 and then compare it to today's picture.  only 14 days!  from my understanding of nute burn, they would not continue to get bigger.  someone please correct me if i'm wrong.

except for these burnt tips, i think i'd be good to flower these right now.  and get a SOG thing going on!


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## surreptitious (Jan 25, 2010)

warfish said:
			
		

> Things are looking pretty good   I'm sure the minor burns on the tips will stop for you, at least I'm hoping for you
> 
> I would like to follow along if you dont mind:watchplant:



lol, i hope you mean _won't_ stop you!  because it wont!

pull up a chair.  the more the merrier!


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## surreptitious (Jan 30, 2010)

ok, so today i changed out the rez.  

5 gallons of RO water
50 ml of GH's Flora Nova Grow nutes
5 ml of GH's florolicious

the plants are doing really well.  still getting small amounts of burnt tips, but all in all not too bad. i'll take some more pictures in the next few days.


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## surreptitious (Feb 1, 2010)

not the clearest pictures in the world, but you get the idea.

it's hard to tell that i've LST'd them, but if you look at the sides of the pots you can see the strings hanging down.  the pots already had slits in them that i used to tie the string down, so that was cool.

soon, i'll start some lollipopping on them.  i've still got around 4 weeks left before i can move them to the flowering tent (it's currently occupied lol)


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## surreptitious (Feb 1, 2010)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> lol, i hope you mean _won't_ stop you!  because it wont!
> 
> pull up a chair.  the more the merrier!



just re-read what you said, ....lol the burning tips seem to be slowing down...but i didnt decrease my nutes, i increased them.  interesting


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## surreptitious (Feb 8, 2010)

dont have any updated pictures, but yesterday i changed out my rez.

5 gallons RO water
25 ml grow nutes
12.5 of humboldt county's own bushmaster

bushmaster is a vertical growth inhibitor.  it's supposed to make the nodes on the new growth closer together to make the buds more compact on top.  it's also supposed to reduce the initial flowering stretch. i'll be running this for 5-7 days.  this amount of bushmaster is double from my last batch.  the last batch still had a good amount of stretch during the initial flowering stretch.

we'll see how this works.


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## CaliWildViolet420 (Feb 8, 2010)

Well Surrep...Twas on the wrong page..and started writing, so I am gonna say what I said..cause you asked me...
Nice..thanks for the PM, so I would look...Lots to get caught up on here..me being new to this forum. I would suggest, not having your T-5 so close. If you look at the EZ Cloner shots on my thread, we have it up a bit higher. 
Your tube feed looks similar to ours, love that feeding. We switched out of hydroton about 7 mnths ago...Lights definitely possible reason for burn. We have done that in our flower shed. Our rooms have oscillating heaters in them and temps run about 75* with fans up high and down low...Other wise they look healthy...If you do not have the Jorge Cervantes book...I recommend it..does not tell all, but tells quite a bit more, than I ever knew...It gives you an idea of what nutes are too much and leaf by leaf....although...not always helpful...

Also, forgive my asking, but do you have this all in a small room or cab type setting..I am confused...

So, you asked..haha...thats all I can say for now...We do not top...or stretch our plants...we have the lights on the little pulley....
Nice lil set up though....nice...


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## CaliWildViolet420 (Feb 8, 2010)

Okay I went back and I might be missing it..but I did not see what type of ventilation you are using...


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## surreptitious (Feb 9, 2010)

cali, thanks for stopping by 

this is one of the spare bedrooms in my house.  it's about a 20' x 20' room give or take.  i've got 4 areas setup.

1.  mother space.  tray is 3' x 3'
2.  veg space (the space these ladies are)  tray is 3' x 3'
3.  flowering tent-3'x3' tray in a 5'x5'x8' tent.
4.  cloning station - small tub with a humidity dome and a 2ft 4 bulb t-5.

i am using my central a/c to circulate air in the space.  i have it so that it splits the air coming in to the room and then to the flowering tent.  the flowering tent has a carbon scrubber in it, connected to the MH light and then taken out of the room.  i also usually keep the door open with a box fan to get more fresh air in there.

i also breath on them a lot LOL 

i will raise the lights a little bit, hopefully that will help my issues.  since i increased the nutes i get the burnt tips less, but am still getting a little bit.


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## ishnish (Feb 9, 2010)

:ciao:
looks superb!


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## surreptitious (Feb 9, 2010)

thanks ishnish


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## surreptitious (Feb 18, 2010)

ok, so i have updated this in a while.

feb 7th, rez change. 5 gallons water,  25 ml grow nutes, 12.5 ml bushmaster.
i have used the bushmaster to make the top nodes grow closer together.  i only ran it for 5 days.  i did this on my last batch, but still had a good bit of stretch.  so, this time i made them respect the bushmaster.  I got some leaf twist and burnt tips, but that is to be expected and lets you know it's working.  

feb 12th, Rez change. 5 gallons water, 50 ml grow nutes, 5 ml florolicious plus, pH'd to 5.8.  during this day and the 13th i started to do some of the lollipopping on these ladies.   the leaf twist has been resolved, although i still have a little bit of burnt leaf tips (that wont repair itself).  i will also be doing a clean up of the bottom branches 2 weeks into flowering.

feb 18th, Moved plants to the flowering Tent (400 watt MH light in there).  For the first 3 days they will be getting total darkness.   This is a trick to jump start them into flowering mode.

Also changed the rez: 5 gallons water, 20ML Grow, 20ML bloom, 10ML liquid koolbloom, 5ML calmag, and 5ML florolicious plus

this is a little lighter than what GH calls for.  they call for 25ML grow, 25ML bloom, 12.5ML liquid koolbloom and 5ML florolicious plus.

i have reduced it because my last flowering batch got a little burn.  I also added calmag because last time they had a Ca and Mg deficiency.  I'm trying to be a little proactive this time instead of retroactive.

after 3 days, i will take some pictures of them and post them up.


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## surreptitious (Feb 28, 2010)

ok, here are pictures at 5 days into flowering.  the tops are looking nice and compact.  still recovering from the burnt tips due to the bushmaster, but all in all look pretty good to me.


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## surreptitious (Feb 28, 2010)

ok, day 7 i changed the rez out: 

10 gallons water
90ML grow
40ML liquid koolbloom
20ML Calmag
10ML Florolicious plus


this pictures were taken today, day 10.  i have done my clean up or lollipopping or whatever you want to call it.  i have removed all nodes except the top 3 or 4 nodes.  This way all the potential energy that the plant has will be forced into 3 or 4 areas instead of all over the plant.  my goal is to reduce the amount of popcorn buds i get.  we'll see how it goes.


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## BBFan (Mar 2, 2010)

Nice canopy management Surrep!


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## PencilHead (Mar 2, 2010)

Nice work.  

Arrrrggghhh--down with popcorn.  I found a couple hiding down in my flattops yesterday, popped them off and fed them to the dogs.  The hounds keep bitching about, "Why don't you ever make bubble hash for us anymore."  Told them they should grow hands, get jobs and buy their own damn buds they didn't like the freebies.


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## surreptitious (Mar 2, 2010)

thanks guys.


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## quantum420 (Mar 3, 2010)

looking good man! I wish i knew something about the 2 part noots youre using... That leaf burn looks like over fertilization without the taco leaves... Which probably means it is


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## quantum420 (Mar 3, 2010)

you're probably going to have to go out and buy some bamboo stakes once the buds get a little heavier. They look like they may start drooping soon... Way to go on the training!


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## surreptitious (Mar 3, 2010)

quantum!  thanks for stopping by and welcome to the forum!

i think the leaf burn is residual effects from the bushmaster.  the tops do not have the issue with the burned leafs.

i already got some bamboo stakes!  i'm ready and  waiting to support those heavy dank nugs lol


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## quantum420 (Mar 4, 2010)

surreptitious said:
			
		

> quantum! thanks for stopping by and welcome to the forum!
> 
> i think the leaf burn is residual effects from the bushmaster. the tops do not have the issue with the burned leafs.
> 
> i already got some bamboo stakes! i'm ready and waiting to support those heavy dank nugs lol


 
My earlier comment seems to be incomplete..... Like I hit submit before I was done typing.... I wish my neighbors would get better wireless routers! 

Good call man... I agree... Its got to be the bushmaster. If you have new growth and its not showing signs of burn- all is well.


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## money man (Mar 5, 2010)

Hell Yeah Man!

Does everyone prefer square pots?


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## surreptitious (Mar 6, 2010)

quantum420 said:
			
		

> My earlier comment seems to be incomplete..... Like I hit submit before I was done typing.... I wish my neighbors would get better wireless routers!
> 
> Good call man... I agree... Its got to be the bushmaster. If you have new growth and its not showing signs of burn- all is well.



yeah man, all the stuff on top looks good.  with very minor burned leaves on older growth.


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## surreptitious (Mar 6, 2010)

money man said:
			
		

> Hell Yeah Man!
> 
> Does everyone prefer square pots?



i like the square pots, but that may be because my dripping tray is also square and 16 pots fit into the 3'x3' tray nicely.


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## surreptitious (Mar 6, 2010)

today is day 16 of flowering and i changed the rez out:

rez change:
10 gallons RO water
GH FloraNova Bloom: 70ml
GH Florolicious Plus: 10ml
GH Liquid kool bloom: 100ml
GH Dry kool bloom: 25ml
Humbult County's Own Snow storm ultra: 20ml

i will probably let this run through the rest of week 3 and most of week 4.


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## quantum420 (Mar 6, 2010)

PK spike! And you're gonna love the Snow Storm.... Good stufffff!!


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## surreptitious (Mar 7, 2010)

yep a PK spike.  you are the first one i know that has talked about the PK spike during week 3 and 4.  maybe you should start a thread about it.  get other's opinions.


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## quantum420 (Mar 9, 2010)

Really? I have only heard about doing a pk spike from one place, and I've only heard about doing it in week 3 and 4. So I wouldnt claim to have the best, most tested advice on pk spikes.... Allthough I did get better results with a week 3 and 4 spike than without one at all, I still could stand to learn what other folks are doing.... SO what have you heard concerning spikes? Do tell!


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## surreptitious (Mar 10, 2010)

lol, i guess you're the only one that i know whos talked about the PK spike...not just during week 3 and 4.


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