# T5 or my how long



## techrons78 (Feb 12, 2015)

So right now I amv egging clones fromm la blanka they r about 2 weeks old and are about 6 inches tall...I have 15 of them under the t54ft 8 bulb with the pur par veg lights from htg mixed...also have a 2 foot 8 bulb hitting them from side. .question is should I switch to  1 k mh to make them grow bigger faster? Or can I save the energy snd just use the t54ft for a couple more weeks before I flower I want them somewhat big before flower...what do u think? 

View attachment 20150212_204818.jpg


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## zem (Feb 12, 2015)

hi, plants are looking good  with so many plants, you might want to flower them early. anyway, i would definitely give them some mh light before i begin flowering, but probably just one week now, because it seems like a lot of plants to grow to large size under 1kw. you might want to do some training and proper canopy management, this looks really promising


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## zem (Feb 12, 2015)

btw, i like the yellow flowers, what kind of fancy mj is that?


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## techrons78 (Feb 12, 2015)

zem said:


> btw, i like the yellow flowers, what kind of fancy mj is that?



Marigolds they keep white flys and other pest away.


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## techrons78 (Feb 12, 2015)

zem said:


> hi, plants are looking good  with so many plants, you might want to flower them early. anyway, i would definitely give them some mh light before i begin flowering, but probably just one week now, because it seems like a lot of plants to grow to large size under 1kw. you might want to do some training and proper canopy management, this looks really promising



Yes im gonna do some heavy prunning...


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## EsC420PoT (Feb 12, 2015)

Metal Halide will give you a way more efficient and fast grow, as it puts out 2-3 times as much as your t5 set up. I got one of those also, I used 2 of those exact same ones for my veg in a 5x5 room and they worked marvelous! However, the metal halide would def. give you faster growth. though, your pg&e will make a big difference... SO it really comes down to this, pay more in PG&E and get a better/faster grow, or save tremendously on PG&E and get a slower growth. Regardless, don't let these words discourage you, I haven't used a Metal halide since 4 years ago simply due to the PG&E. Figured I can cash out for the HPS for flowering, but can't do both HPS and MH lol. So with that said, your T5 setup is more than good for what you got. But it just depends on your expenses really. Ya I agree with Zem, you have way to many plants in there... Keep in mind, (at least when it comes to indoor) more plant's doesn't mean more bud... I have gotten more off of 4 plants in my old 5x5 setup than I did when I put 12 in there.. It's all about utilizing your lumens per SQ.Ft. With that said, How big is your grow room? I'm guessing it's about at the least 4x4? SO in this sense I would either lower the plant limit or switch to flower within a week or so, otherwise they will overgrow each other. A good rule of thumb is to keep in mind that each plant will eventually take up about 2 Sq. Ft.  each and continuously get bigger. Aside from my two cents, looks great bud! Good luck to ya!


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## techrons78 (Feb 13, 2015)

EsC420PoT said:


> Metal Halide will give you a way more efficient and fast grow, as it puts out 2-3 times as much as your t5 set up. I got one of those also, I used 2 of those exact same ones for my veg in a 5x5 room and they worked marvelous! However, the metal halide would def. give you faster growth. though, your pg&e will make a big difference... SO it really comes down to this, pay more in PG&E and get a better/faster grow, or save tremendously on PG&E and get a slower growth. Regardless, don't let these words discourage you, I haven't used a Metal halide since 4 years ago simply due to the PG&E. Figured I can cash out for the HPS for flowering, but can't do both HPS and MH lol. So with that said, your T5 setup is more than good for what you got. But it just depends on your expenses really. Ya I agree with Zem, you have way to many plants in there... Keep in mind, (at least when it comes to indoor) more plant's doesn't mean more bud... I have gotten more off of 4 plants in my old 5x5 setup than I did when I put 12 in there.. It's all about utilizing your lumens per SQ.Ft. With that said, How big is your grow room? I'm guessing it's about at the least 4x4? SO in this sense I would either lower the plant limit or switch to flower within a week or so, otherwise they will overgrow each other. A good rule of thumb is to keep in mind that each plant will eventually take up about 2 Sq. Ft.  each and continuously get bigger. Aside from my two cents, looks great bud! Good luck to ya!


Hey bro thx, what im going to do is I'm 4 weeks out from harvesting my led tent..4x4 so im gonna veg plants out for couple more weeks...put new clones new in tent led 650w...then ill keep the rest under the 1 k hortilux. ..how does this sound?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 13, 2015)

I have the exact opposite opinion from esC.  Even though I own MH lighting, I use T5 and have actually gotten rid of most of my MH lighting.  I personally would keep them under the T5s.  Unless a MH is way bigger it is not going to be better than the T5, as they do put out about the same lumens per watt and the T5 simply spreads the light better.  When you add to this that you can get the T5s right down on the canopy, I personally believe that T5s are superior to MH for vegging.  So, yes, veg them as long as you need to with the T5.  Your T5 is emitting 40,000 lumens.  A 400W MH will emit 36,000 lumens.   

I would though get the light down right on top of the plants--a couple of inches away.


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## techrons78 (Feb 13, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I have the exact opposite opinion from esC.  Even though I own MH lighting, I use T5 and have actually gotten rid of most of my MH lighting.  I personally would keep them under the T5s.  Unless a MH is way bigger it is not going to be better than the T5, as they do put out about the same lumens per watt and the T5 simply spreads the light better.  When you add to this that you can get the T5s right down on the canopy, I personally believe that T5s are superior to MH for vegging.  So, yes, veg them as long as you need to with the T5.  Your T5 is emitting 40,000 lumens.  A 400W MH will emit 36,000 lumens.
> 
> I would though get the light down right on top of the plants--a couple of inches away.



Thank you soo much, I just lowered the t5 3 inches above canopy..tech


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## sopappy (Feb 16, 2015)

I have ONE 4' T5 45W HO in the fixture 1.5 inches above the girls. The temperature is 29C  85F which I think is still too hot. If I put the other 3 bulbs in there, I'd think I'd fry them. Do your T5s run that hot?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 16, 2015)

No, but I have an exhaust fan in there.  I had 12 2' tubes in a 5 sq ft space and had no trouble at all controlling the heat.  Do you have ventilation?  If I did not exhaust hot air, yes, my space would get that hot.  You need to deal with the heat rather than trying to get by with way too little light because you cannot control it.  ALL grow spaces need ventilation.


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## sopappy (Feb 17, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> No, but I have an exhaust fan in there.  I had 12 2' tubes in a 5 sq ft space and had no trouble at all controlling the heat.  Do you have ventilation?  If I did not exhaust hot air, yes, my space would get that hot.  You need to deal with the heat rather than trying to get by with way too little light because you cannot control it.  ALL grow spaces need ventilation.



Hi Josephine!  It's me, the pest. Oh yes, the room is ventilated, it's beautiful. (Nothing grows in there anymore though hahaha)
I have a oscillating fan and it helps but they only way I can keep the temps down that close to the tube (2") is to constantly blow across the fixture. (which I tried after your reply, maybe it's my aging brain that misses the obvious some days) There's always a workaround... I'm just going to raise the T5 to about a foot. If they stretch, fine, I'll just add more medium. I don't have much fight left in me, they're winning.
25 seedlings hanging on by their fingernails.... why oh why did i try something new?
(rhetorical, don't answer that


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## zem (Feb 18, 2015)

you need EXHAUST fan and not just oscillating fan. if you absolutely don't want to vent your growroom  because it is too complicated, then get a co2 tank and controller and install an AC and change the co2 tank every few days by carrying in a new one and taking the old one for refill.. how's that for less complication? hehehe


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 18, 2015)

sopappy said:


> Hi Josephine! It's me, the pest. Oh yes, the room is ventilated, it's beautiful. (Nothing grows in there anymore though hahaha)
> I have a oscillating fan and it helps but they only way I can keep the temps down that close to the tube (2") is to constantly blow across the fixture. (which I tried after your reply, maybe it's my aging brain that misses the obvious some days) There's always a workaround... I'm just going to raise the T5 to about a foot. If they stretch, fine, I'll just add more medium. I don't have much fight left in me, they're winning.
> 25 seedlings hanging on by their fingernails.... why oh why did i try something new?
> (rhetorical, don't answer that


 
As Zem and I have both mentioned.  You need both an exhaust fan AND an oscillating fan and they serve way different purposes.  An oscillating fan pointed at the light will not work cool the space or bring in fresh air, 2 of the functions of an exhaust fan.  The oscillating fan should be blowing across the plants to help strengthen the stem and move the air around.  The exhaust fan is to exchange air (out with the old and in with the new), which will both cool your space and bring in fresh air.  Your intake air will however, have to be cooler than the air in your space to be able to cool it.  

You need something like this [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Active-Air-inch--Line-Fan/dp/B002JQ4N92/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1424272501&sr=8-3&keywords=4%27+fan[/ame] to exhaust the hot air out of your space.  The fan can be located in the tent/space or it can be located outside the space and connected with ducting.  The exhaust is usually located high in the space as heat rises.  You will need intakes of some kind (basically just holes to let fresh air in) and the intakes can be passive.  This means that the exhaust naturally brings in air as it is pulling air out of the space.  This in turn will create negative pressure that will help keep any odors contained.  The size of the fan depends on the size of your space.  I am using a 6" 448 cfm fan in a closet that is a little under 150 cfm (6.5 x 3 x 7.5) and a 140 cfm fan in a tent that is a little over 36 cu ft (32" x 32" x 62").  I also recommend getting a fan speed controller (like a rheostat for fans) to control the speed.    

In a small vegging space you can usually get away with using a good quality bathroom exhaust type fan.  However you cannot connect a filter to it like you can the centrifuge fan I linked.  And most good quality bathroom type exhaust fans are going to run more than the centrifuge type.


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## sopappy (Feb 18, 2015)

zem said:


> you need EXHAUST fan and not just oscillating fan. if you absolutely don't want to vent your growroom  because it is too complicated, then get a co2 tank and controller and install an AC and change the co2 tank every few days by carrying in a new one and taking the old one for refill.. how's that for less complication? hehehe



Yes, of course, I could have elaborated on "it's beautifull" but yes I have an exhaust fan, 2 in fact, the middle exhausts from veg to flr and big guy is in flr with a can. I was running my circ fan but oscillating wasn't enough to cool the T5s. I raised the T5s and I'll need another small fan just for it.

It's dark right now and medium is 20.5, ambient 19.5 
The 6" vortex is on steady on med position of 3 postion speed control, I find the variable ones too noisy (unless I had a bad one)
I'm also hoping MED is about half CFM of HI

Thanks for the chance to brag about the room. It is a perfect environment day or night, I just wish I could grow something in there 

I'd love to try the CO2 thing but how the heck do I get those in and out of here without raisng eyebrows?


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## sopappy (Feb 18, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> As Zem and I have both mentioned.  You need both an exhaust fan AND an oscillating fan and they serve way different purposes.  An oscillating fan pointed at the light will not work cool the space or bring in fresh air, 2 of the functions of an exhaust fan.  The oscillating fan should be blowing across the plants to help strengthen the stem and move the air around.  The exhaust fan is to exchange air (out with the old and in with the new), which will both cool your space and bring in fresh air.  Your intake air will however, have to be cooler than the air in your space to be able to cool it.
> 
> You need something like this http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002JQ4N92/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20 to exhaust the hot air out of your space.  The fan can be located in the tent/space or it can be located outside the space and connected with ducting.  The exhaust is usually located high in the space as heat rises.  You will need intakes of some kind (basically just holes to let fresh air in) and the intakes can be passive.  This means that the exhaust naturally brings in air as it is pulling air out of the space.  This in turn will create negative pressure that will help keep any odors contained.  The size of the fan depends on the size of your space.  I am using a 6" 448 cfm fan in a closet that is a little under 150 cfm (6.5 x 3 x 7.5) and a 140 cfm fan in a tent that is a little over 36 cu ft (32" x 32" x 62").  I also recommend getting a fan speed controller (like a rheostat for fans) to control the speed.
> 
> In a small vegging space you can usually get away with using a good quality bathroom exhaust type fan.  However you cannot connect a filter to it like you can the centrifuge fan I linked.  And most good quality bathroom type exhaust fans are going to run more than the centrifuge type.



Great stuff as usual. I think we have the same 6" vortex. I don't like those variable speed controls, they're too noisy. I use a HI MED LO switch instead.... I'm hoping MED is about 200 CFM, I run that 24/7 and there's a little guy helping draw from veg to flr. Two intakes, passive one outside IS CLOSED these days -20C out there and other is from furnace duct with a booster fan on it that kicks in if below 19C


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## Dman1234 (Feb 18, 2015)

I dont get it?  a speed control doesnt make any noise at all, its your fan that is making the noise, and vortex arent that bad at all


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## sopappy (Feb 19, 2015)

Dman1234 said:


> I dont get it?  a speed control doesnt make any noise at all, its your fan that is making the noise, and vortex arent that bad at all



It looked something like this http://www.ebay.com/bhp/variable-fan-speed-controller and it was a hum so loud I could hear it upstairs. I sent it back and the guy was surprised I sent it back too. I suppose i should have tried another one but I just bought a 3 position one.  

Besides, how do you know what your CFM is when you use those?


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## EsC420PoT (Feb 21, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I have the exact opposite opinion from esC. Even though I own MH lighting, I use T5 and have actually gotten rid of most of my MH lighting. I personally would keep them under the T5s. Unless a MH is way bigger it is not going to be better than the T5, as they do put out about the same lumens per watt and the T5 simply spreads the light better. When you add to this that you can get the T5s right down on the canopy, I personally believe that T5s are superior to MH for vegging. So, yes, veg them as long as you need to with the T5. Your T5 is emitting 40,000 lumens. A 400W MH will emit 36,000 lumens.
> 
> I would though get the light down right on top of the plants--a couple of inches away.



Lol I love you THG, but with all do respect, how is this the opposite? We technically said the same thing.. Ah See, t5 can be superior due to how many you add, but I was putting into the perspective, that 1 MH vs 1 t5 Set up... MH will be way more beneficial in lumen output. Thats what I was getting at. But I do agree, Like I said, I havn't used a MH in 4 years.. I'm a firm believer of t5 for Veg. Also, another factor here, Is my t5 Set up puts out about 20k lumens.. So I assumed he had the same as I did, as it looks that way. But apparently, if his setup puts out that much, then obviously it's better than a metal halide. Hence, why in my veg, I have 2, 4 tubed 8 ft. long t5 floro set ups. Which puts out way more than a 400 watt MH. Again, my advice was comparing from 1 T5 (according to my t5's) and 1 MH 600 watt. I only get 600 watt to 1k watt, so thats another reason why I felt MH would be more beneficial as I was thinking 600 watt, and you were aware he wanted 400 watt. Regardless, THG knows way more than me! Hey... that rhymed! So with that said, your in good hands. 



sopappy said:


> Great stuff as usual. I think we have the same 6" vortex. I don't like those variable speed controls, they're too noisy. I use a HI MED LO switch instead.... I'm hoping MED is about 200 CFM, I run that 24/7 and there's a little guy helping draw from veg to flr. Two intakes, passive one outside IS CLOSED these days -20C out there and other is from furnace duct with a booster fan on it that kicks in if below 19C


 I have a 400CMF fan and have a dial that I can adjust. When it comes to ventilation, you go on your humidity and temp... It doesn't matter if it's pulling 400CMF or 100 CMF, what maters is the balance within your grow room. Of course you want to keep in mind you want the air to be changed about 2-4 times per hour. At least thats my rule of thumb. And did you say -20* C?!?!? DUDE! Time to invest in a heater!! Good luck!


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