# Prepping for first grow! :)



## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

Hello all. Yes I'm new and my introduction thread can be read HERE. 

Basically I watched a video ( hxxp:youtube.com/watch? v=8KVO26htvoQ&list=UUV-ZtWUkTVbttG7k-9y0_ng  *edit* I'm not getting the link to work this way. Just look up: "I Grow Chronic! 1of9 (Marijuana hydroponic grow room setup)" )after doing a load of research and have decided that this general method is what I want to do. 

I'll get pics of my room and some other information as time goes on, but for now I think I'm going to be doing around 10x3 with a divider to make it 2 5x3 rooms. This will be above my garage in a livable space that's insulated and "rough cut" 

I basically want help with any parts lists (going off of that growing series video) and any suggestions and thoughts that can be compiled for my first grow. I want to at least have a successful 1st grow even though yes I understand there's a lot of factors and plants die etc.. I just ultimately want to grow enough to sustain myself. This video said he gets around 1 QP every 2 months and that would be perfect for me! Seems he has 2 mothers and some vegging clones at all times under simple florescent and 4 plants flowering in the other side. I would be willing to extend my flowering room 2 feet or something so that I could flower 6 plants at once optimally. I have plenty of room, but I don't want to go crazy (considering I don't have the funds too either) so I was thinking a 400W HPS with air hood should be just fine for 6 plants (he used it very effectively on 4 plants in the video) 

I've compiled the list from the stuff in video, but I'm curious of the technical term to some of the items. Like the black bins he has in the vegging and flowering rooms.. the ones he drills holes into. Also, those fittings that go in the holes. What are those called specifically? I just want to head to a hardware store and get the easy stuff picked up. 

Also, how about nutes? What ones should I buy? (I know that's somewhat subjective and situational) I generally want to know how much the nutes will cost. I have a decent idea on the rest of the builds pricing. 

Alright, any thoughts I have I'll just chime in here and hope for help along the way. 

I really appreciate any and all help along this process. I was intimidated at first, but I really think after a week of researching I have a good idea of what is going on. Obviously I don't know entirely hah  


I hope to be a regular around here. I have a decent camera and I hope to be taking some excellent pictures and 720HD videos along my process. I'll pay back the community as best possible as this is going on.


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

i cant view the video without creating a youtbue account so i'll have to do that later.

as for your space size. 2 5X3 rooms, i'm assuming 1 for veg 1 for flower?

how much light you need is not depending on how many plants you want to grow. its based on how large the room is. each room is 15 sq ft, and you need minimum 3000 lumens per sq ft in veg room and 5000 lumens per sq ft in flower room. remember these are your minimums, you can never have too much light, but too little can be detrimental. a 6 bulb 4 ft HO t5 fixture will do well in the veg room. normally i would say grab a 600watt hps for 15sq ft. b/c your flower room is rectangle rather then a square, i would go for 2 400watt hps instead of the single 600watt. it will give you a better footprint as well as more overall lumens per sq ft.

also, your flower room can stand to be bigger then the veg room. so if you wanted, you could make the flower room 6X3 and the veg room 4X3.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

> i cant view the video without creating a youtbue account so i'll have to do that later.



Viewing the video is slightly important to the mindset and method I was going for. 



> as for your space size. 2 5X3 rooms, i'm assuming 1 for veg 1 for flower?



Yes indeed  



> how much light you need is not depending on how many plants you want to grow. its based on how large the room is. each room is 15 sq ft, and you need minimum 3000 lumens per sq ft in veg room and 5000 lumens per sq ft in flower room. remember these are your minimums, you can never have too much light, but too little can be detrimental. a 6 bulb 4 ft HO t5 fixture will do well in the veg room. normally i would say grab a 600watt hps for 15sq ft. b/c your flower room is rectangle rather then a square, i would go for 2 400watt hps instead of the single 600watt. it will give you a better footprint as well as more overall lumens per sq ft.
> 
> also, your flower room can stand to be bigger then the veg room. so if you wanted, you could make the flower room 6X3 and the veg room 4X3.



Again, watching that video is quite important to how my thought process is right now. This guy shows the entire process done over 9 ten minute videos. Start to crop. He gets 1 QP every 2 months using this entire method and 1 400W HPS light in flowering room for 4 plants. 

I really appreciate the explanation of the veg room light. I'll need to sort this out so thanks.  

The video isn't viewable to people without youtube account? Are you sure?


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## Kupunakane (Feb 27, 2013)

_*Yo Ho EllisD,

   First welcome to our Living library as it were. I like the idea of the 400 watt HPS in a 3x5 room. Hopefully you have a bit of head room for the light.

 For that kind of a fast turn around, I think your pretty much on the money for the lighting, but remember you have to have everything dialed in pretty well to get that time in veg and flower accomplished. Most indicas that I do in soil need a flower time minumally of 7 weeks, and if there is Sativa in there, then guarentee it's going to want longer in flower. 

 I'm checking out the video as you do have my attention, and I would like to see what's got you all excited.

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna:icon_smile:
*_


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 27, 2013)

*Take everything you see on You Tube with a grain of salt--there is a huge amount of misinformation there, as anyone can put anything on they want and make any claims they want.
*
First I want to say that that everything that shortbus has told you is true.  Second, you are going to have to be flexible.  Third, a QP every 2 months is really not very much.  

Regardless of what the greenman says, a 400W in 15 sq ft is not enough.  You need a min of 75,000 lumens and you are not going to get that with a 400W.  I would go with either a 600W with a large air cooled reflectors or 2 400W like shortbus mentioned.  I would also not use "regular" fluoro tubes.  Look into the HO T5s for vegging.  I also do not keep moms, but clone from clones.  Your vegging room can generally be substantially smaller than your flowering room as the plants are a lot smaller.  IMO, it is a mistake to make your vegging space too large since you need to light and ventilate it.

It has been a long time since I have watched these videos.  I will try and rewatch all of them sometime today and see what else I can offer.  I can't remember the exact hydro set-up he uses.

Also be flexible.  What works for one may not work for another.  And like mentioned already, everything you see on You Tube is not necessarily real or realistic and 4 ozs from a 400W is really a poor yield.


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

ok i checked out the video. few things you should know right off the bat. the reason he is only running 1 400watt hps is because he is not utilizing the entire flower room. he is actually loosing a lot of light by making the room 5x3 and only using 3x3 of the space to actually grow plants.

i also i wanna point out something he said. the statement "i save 2-4 weeks of growing time by using a hydroponic system" is a completely false statement. that is an outrageous claim that he nor anyone else would ever be able to provide evidence to. 

now, if you want to grow hydro, then i say go for it. there are a few things you need to know before going forward though.

1 - hydro has a more expensive start up cost then soil. even the cheapest hydro setup will cost more then a soil setup.
2 - in my experience soil is also less overall work. UNLESS, you take the time and more importantly MONEY to make your hydro setup automated.
3 - there is a varying degree difficulty, when it comes to hydro setups. some are simple and easy, and some are much more complicated.

when people are starting out with their first grow and make the decision to grow using a hydroponic application. i always suggest for their first grow they use DWC as their first choice setup. DWC(deep water culture) is the cheapest, easiest setup when it comes to hydro growing.

deep water culture - the plants are usually germinated in rapid rooter plugs, or rockwool. then when roots show through, the plants are transplanted into a net pot/bucket pot full of hydroton. hydroton is an inert medium that holds water while providing ample drainage and aeration. the roots eventually grow down through the net pot and into a nutrient solution that is aerated by a air stone.

i find the 5gal bucket standalone dwc system to be the easiest, as opposed to multiple plants within 1 reservoir.

things you will need:

- 1 5gal bucket per plant (i suggest buying 2 buckets per plant though. it makes it much easier when you need to change out the reservoir. you can pre bubble/mix the nutrients in the spare buckets, then just do the old switcheroo, when the time comes to change out your res.)

- 1 air stone per bucket (picking a quality air stone is key here, you want one that is heavy so it stays at the bottom of the bucket and doesn't entangle itself in the roots system.)

- air pump, how many you will need will depend on how many plants you are going to grow at any one time. they make air pumps that you can attach 1-4 line on them. they also make commercial grade pumps that you can buy a splitter for that will provide enough air for up to 100 buckets at a time. i like to buy the 2 hose pumps and the 4 hose pumps from ecoplus. they are cheap and work very well for me.

- 1/4" air hose. cheap stuff. just grab 50 or 100ft. its so cheap and has so many uses you will always want some of this laying around for a rainy day.

- net pots, you can choose to buy 5gal buckets with lids and cut a 3" hole in the center of the lid where you can place your net pot. OR just buy the bucket pots. they come in 4-10" pot sizes and all fit perfectly over a standard 5gal bucket. they're also sturdier then regular net pots.

ther are many different kid of hydroponic setups.

difficulty rating: 1-5 (in my opinion)

- ebb & flo  3
- flood and drain 3
- top feed 3
- dwc 1 
- aeroponics 5 (aeroponics is expensive and a LOT of work. super sensitive as well. i don't recommend this for anyone new to growing)

these are some of the most popular hydro choices, theres a few more, but not worth mentioning right now.


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

im in total agreement with THG, you need to find what works best for you and your situation. that 1 statement right there is prolly the most valuable piece of info anyone can give you when setting up a grow room.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

**EDIT* hahah! before I finished this post there were 2 more replies. Checking and replying now. *


Wow, excellent community here! Thanks for quick and detailed responses! 

I'm going to manually multi-quote and reply to give you my thoughts, but I do know I'm a noob and am willing to listen extremely! I just want to not _*totally*_ fail my first grow if at all possible. 



> First welcome to our Living library as it were. I like the idea of the 400 watt HPS in a 3x5 room. Hopefully you have a bit of head room for the light.



Thanks for the welcome! I really feel like this site is everything I've been needing for that "nudge" to growing. I have plenty of headroom.  I'll take a pic of the space soon enough. 



> I'm checking out the video as you do have my attention, and I would like to see what's got you all excited.



It was a rather convincing video, but this is why I'm here and cross referencing. I've watched loads of other videos and this one takes the cake for me. 



> Take everything you see on You Tube with a grain of salt--there is a huge amount of misinformation there, as anyone can put anything on they want and make any claims they want.



Oh surely, again this is why I'm here and showing the vast knowledgeable users and helpful members here this video to "fact check"



> Second, you are going to have to be flexible. Third, a QP every 2 months is really not very much.



I'm rather flexible and generally wanted to give you an idea of what I hoped for process and turn around  As for QP every 2 not being much, that's EXCELLENT to hear!! I will only really need around QP / 2 months so any more is bonus and super appreciated and kind of sounds awesome to me to hear you say that! 



> Regardless of what the greenman says, a 400W in 15 sq ft is not enough. You need a min of 75,000 lumens and you are not going to get that with a 400W. I would go with either a 600W with a large air cooled reflectors or 2 400W like shortbus mentioned.



Only problem with that is *funding*. I would have a hard time getting the wife to agree any further funds lol! I've got the agreement on the parts list of greenmans setup, and I think that's a fairly good one.



> I also do not keep moms, but clone from clones



And I believe, if I remember right, each generation gets stronger yes? I was thinking of doing this as well.. a little different than Greenman. Keep getting clones of clones along the way and vegging them during the process. 



> Your vegging room can generally be substantially smaller than your flowering room as the plants are a lot smaller. IMO, it is a mistake to make your vegging space too large since you need to light and ventilate it.



Well indeed, just going off of dimensions from that very convincing video series. 



> It has been a long time since I have watched these videos. I will try and rewatch all of them sometime today and see what else I can offer. I can't remember the exact hydro set-up he uses.



It would actually humble me and mean the world if you would take a few moments to watch the 9 part video... the reason it would mean so much, is you would see my (nearly) exact mindset with what I was hoping to do! Then I could adjust from there with yours (and others) knowledge.  



> Also be flexible. What works for one may not work for another. And like mentioned already, everything you see on You Tube is not necessarily real or realistic and 4 ozs from a 400W is really a poor yield



I understand, I was just exceedingly happy with this process and yield so wanted to inquire further. I was very satisfied with 5 ouch yield (I believe he had 5+ ounce yield. He sums it up as "a QP every 2 months guaranteed"





With all this said, thanks again .. I really appreciate the quick responses as financially and hobby wise, I need to change something. I'm willing to invest a little chunk, and that's all I can afford.. I just want it to sustain me. 


Can't wait for any and all replies. Checking "new posts" constantly, and browsing the sub forums in another tab. Great community here, and loads of info!


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> And I believe, if I remember right, each generation gets stronger yes? I was thinking of doing this as well.. a little different than Greenman. Keep getting clones of clones along the way and vegging them during the process.



no, they actually will lose their vigor over a long period of time, after they've been cloned over and over for years. this is actually a much debated topic amongst growers.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> ok i checked out the video. few things you should know right off the bat. the reason he is only running 1 400watt hps is because he is not utilizing the entire flower room. he is actually loosing a lot of light by making the room 5x3 and only using 3x3 of the space to actually grow plants.
> 
> i also i wanna point out something he said. the statement "i save 2-4 weeks of growing time by using a hydroponic system" is a completely false statement. that is an outrageous claim that he nor anyone else would ever be able to provide evidence to.
> 
> ...




Amazing reply. I have so much to say to ALL of this, but I'll get down to business with some immediate answer/questions. 

I was happy with his setup and yield so for you guys to tell me it's sloppy and yields low, that's excellent news!  Yes, I'm very flexible and am willing to buy and shape to helpful users design. I will surely listen to you guys and setup accordingly, just wanted you all to know the video that got me going mentally and emotionally. 

Again, I just want to sustain myself you know? So if the space could be smaller and more effective, that sounds like 2 bonus's to me!! I just don't want to burn my garage down, so the thought of putting everything "closer" scares me only slightly. But I feel like that's silly considering some of the setups I've seen.. especially in closets! lol 

I like the sound of soil being easier overall and cheaper, but I really want to do a cheap hydro solution. Now your mention of DWC I'd like to look at. Especially since you rate it a 1 out of 5 for ease.. I want my first grow to be as easy as possible, yet yield enough for me to sustain and have it not be total gross tasting, horrible grade stuff. 

Ok, so you recommend the 5 gal bucket method then? I'd love if anyone has done this kind of grow, and has a journal setup.. if I could get pointed that way. Pics / vids are excellent for my learning methods. Just text can be tricky :/

Overall you think a 400w HPS will work right? That's about what my budget holds to. Unless a 600w isn't too much more. I thought I found some various prices around, but any advice on purchase place would be nifty too. If not, no worries I'll sort that out.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

> im in total agreement with THG, you need to find what works best for you and your situation. that 1 statement right there is prolly the most valuable piece of info anyone can give you when setting up a grow room.



Yeah, I liked that bit right there. You guys know my deal, just would need a pic of my room I imagine to help figure out how to design it. Was there anything wrong with Greenmans design besides it being too big for lighting size? Can I do a smaller version of that effectively? 

(I have soooo many questions more than this eek!)


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## 4u2sm0ke (Feb 27, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> no, they actually will lose their vigor over a long period of time, after they've been cloned over and over for years. this is actually a much debated topic amongst growers.



Sorry *Shorty*....I have a strain that just turned 30yrs old..and flowers just as good today as it did day 1...so I say...clone clone clone clone clone....then clone some more:lama:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> Sorry *Shorty*....I have a strain that just turned 30yrs old..and flowers just as good today as it did day 1...so I say...clone clone clone clone clone....then clone some more:lama:




hah, crazy  

Well in that case, if you would be so kind as to read my backstory and thought process up till this point and chime in, that'd be excellent of you!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 27, 2013)

I also recommend ditching the hydro setup he is using.  Go with something simple at first and get more complicated later if you want to.  I have grown individual DWC buckets for years.  The difference in cost between what he has and a simple DWC system with individual buckets should allow you to step up to a 600W light (a 400W really isn't enough unless you make your space smaller.  Contrary to what he said, hydro is not faster.  It _may _speed up vegging some, but not in a significant way.

His entire method of sexing I really question.  First of all, do not cull your vegging plants down to the best 2.  This is especially important because the larger stronger plants are often male.  Most plants will show sex while still in veg after 8 weeks, so all that rigamarole  he did would normally be unneccesary.  He is darned lucky that both the plants he kept were female.  If they had been male, he would have lost approx 10 weeks time with nothing to show for it.  So basically, germ 2-3 times more seeds than you want plants.  Veg them under 24 hour light (18/6 causes stretch as you can see and slows things down).  Between 6 and 8 weeks they should have preflowers and you can throw away the males.  Rockwool must be presoaked in water pH'd to about 5.5 before use.  I also do not recommend dipping cuttings into the cloning gel bottle.  You can transfer any pathogens the plant has into the gel. 

I think that you will find it harder to keep the flowering area 100% dark than he shows.  Black plastic and staples are most likely going to let light in--it doesn't even appear that the black plastic that serves as the door is anchored in any way.  While mylar may be the best, it is only the best if it is hung absolutely straight without wrinkles, something that is hard to do.  In addition, it does not wash well and you usually cannot rehang it.  I have removed all the mylar from my walls.  Flat white paint is very reflective, washes well and is cheap.  Skip the mylar and you have saved more money. 

I do not keep mother plants.  I take clones from clones.  I have seen strain degradation after a number of years, but it takes many many generations for this to happen.  Without mothers, you can make your vegging space smaller, just needing a place to veg and clone.  A 3 x 3 space or a 4 x 2 space would most likely be large enough.  A 4 x 2 space will enable you to use a 4' fluoro.

To keep from getting horrible stuff, buy good genetics.

That is all I can think of for right now.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 27, 2013)

When you say that you wanna do htdro becuse you want it to be the best smoke. thats really irrelevant. I grow in soil organically and I produce really dank stuff that would rival any hydro setup if not surpass. its not gonna change quality doing hydro over soil. Imo hydro is a lot more complicated and I stay away from it, although once dialed in hydro can be very rewarding. Its all personal preference.You say money is an issue. grow in soil organically. jmo


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 27, 2013)

also ebay has a 600watt hps/mh cool tube with xl hood grow kit with rope ratchet hangers and both bulbs mh and hps for 200 bucks. thats really cheap and has enough lumens to be successful. I grow in a 3x3 flood table and I can fit 9 plants and I yield a pound every 7 weeks. I grow top skunk 44 by seedsman that i got from the attitude seedbank. Theyre short plants, Its pretty dank stuff. lots of trichs and a great buzz.


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

wow i had an extremely well thought out post all typed up and almost finished, when i accidentally x'ed out of firefox. :-(


...lets try this again.

i get my 5gal buckets from lowes. cheapest price i can find anywhere

if you want to go with just the 400watt hps. then i suggest you make your flower room 3x3. paint the walls flat white. mylar is the pain in the *** to deal with. flat white paint reflects very well.

the hps light will no doubt be the biggest expense of all. while bulbs are cheap(about 15-30$), hps lights require ballasts & reflectors.

for smaller wattage hps i like to go with cooltubes, b/c they're cheap

the ballast will run you around 150$ new. there are some really good deals on ebay where you can get used 400watt setups for really cheap. just gotta do your homework and make sure everything looks like its in working order

you will also need ventilation. the plants need a constant supply of co2 in the grow room to grow well. this mean you will need to purchase an inline fan. a 4" fan will suffice for a 400w. but if you look at the pricing in the link below. its worth it to just get the 6" only like 10$ more and the cfm goes up tenfold.

these are just examples. do your research, and find good deals...

good ballast >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/?action=product_list&cid=11&aid=161&bid=62&wid=7

good aircooled hood >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/sun-lowrider?&cid=12

cheap cooltube >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/hydrofarm-cool-tube-6-socket-included.html?&cid=12

cheap inline fan >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/VALUELINE4.html?&cid=133

bucket net pots(1 per bucket) >>>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/6-mesh-pot-bucket-lid.html?&cid=190

air stone(1 per bucket) >>>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/ecoplus-air-stone-medium-round.html?&cid=454

air pump >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/ecoplus-eco-air-pumps.html?&cid=453

rapic rooter plugs(for clones and seedlings) >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/gh-rapid-rooter-50-pack.html?&cid=211

humidity done and tray (for clones and seedlings) >>>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/mondi-7-controlled-humidity-dome.html?&cid=209

cloning gel >>>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/hydrodynamics-clonex-rooting-gel.html?&cid=206

HO t5's (for veg room) >>>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/?action=special_category&cid=14

hydroton/grow stones >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/?action=product_list&cid=159

thermometer/hydrometer >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/ecoplus-large-display-thermometer-hygrometer.html

pump sprayer never hurts >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/flo-master-pump-sprayer-1-2-gallon.html

my favorite fiskers >>> hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/fiskars-softtouch-micro-tip-snips-9921.html

- a cheap pocket microscope (40x-100x) to check for plant maturity 
- measuring cups to measure your nutrients
- vent duct & clamps

you will also need an assortment of hooks chain and ropes to hang your lights. all found at local harware stores. as well as supplies to construct your grow space

if the smell is a problem for where your living i also suggest buying a carbon filter.

your going to need to pick up some oscillating fans as well, to help strengthen the stems of your plants and keep the air moving around the room

we'll get into nutrients a little later. thats a whole page post in itself


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## 4u2sm0ke (Feb 27, 2013)

> It would actually humble me and mean the world if you would take a few moments to watch the 9 part video... the reason it would mean so much, is you would see my (nearly) exact mindset with what I was hoping to do! Then I could adjust from there with yours (and others) knowledge.



hBIUp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qf-xA9p8gDM

I have seen his videos in the past and allways wonder why he Whispers?...:stoned:...and doesnt show his :bong1:  Rip at end...anywho..I think its a waste time  to make a cardboard dry box...just use Hangers and a closet...I would also like to see some pictures of your setup as ya go along...I would stay with soil as its more forgiving ..than step up to Hydro if ya choose...I run a perpetual grow..I havest a QP every 2 weeks...And I would stay away from the Milar its a PITA and needs to stay clean...he dont tell ya that in the video...I aim to help ya through and will chime in as needed...what excited you most about this video?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

> what excited you most about this video?



What got me the most was it looked decently cheap and easy to setup and maintain the room. With that said, I'm willing to do whatever is suggested by the majority here. Only issue is, I need to make sure people are in agreement when I take a direction. Should I do soil? Should I do hydro? I'm willing to do either and learn either method. The DWC method seems easy and doable.. and so does soil, it's just the organic method that scares me after reading about it. 

@THG:  Thanks for all your additions here. After you and a few more have said ditch mylar and go with white, I'm going to head that way. As for the "buy good genetics" comment, I actually have some seeds from over the years that I promised myself I would grow. They are all still good looking and solid structure... also I've only saved the ones from GOOD bud along the way. (obviously it wasn't that great since I got a seed, but that must have been a hemi plant ya?) 

I have a couple seeds that I'm absolutely sure were from good stuff. I have some leftover from my trip to Jamaica.. I sure hope they take hold!!! 

@HighBrix: Thanks so much for stopping in and giving me your thoughts! What you say you grow in the size and time is just amazing. I aim for yields like you guys say, but only want to have to expect less. I would love extras!!! But I'd be happy with enough to sustain comfortably. (1 - 1 1/2 OZ / month) I'm considering soil but want to fully get thoughts before hand. 

@ 4u4sm0ke: I wondered why he whispered too lol. Carboard dry box works when you don't have a closet ya?   I'll be taking loads of pics along the way and getting the community involved while keeping the community fully in tuned with my entire process, mindset and workflow / outcome. Another vote for soil from you I see. QP every 2 is amazing.. I can only dream of this outcome. Thanks for staying you'll stick around. 

Can't say how much I appreciate this active and extremely helpful community.


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

im not trying to push you into hydro. i'm a hydro guy. i've just recently taken up organic soil, and i am quickly thinking i should go all organic, i love it. dont be afraid of organic, its the cheapest! of all the growing styles. an added benefit of going organic. you dont just have to grow pot, grow your wife some flowers and i bet your "growing pot budget" will go up! hahahaha       :48:


i'm growing my wife tulips, tiger lilies, and strawberries(choc covered strawberries her fav.). i'm growing my daughter roses, and my son wanted pumpkins.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> im not trying to push you into hydro. i'm a hydro guy. i've just recently taken up organic soil, and i am quickly thinking i should go all organic, i love it. dont be afraid of organic, its the cheapest! of all the growing styles. an added benefit of going organic. you dont just have to grow pot, grow your wife some flowers and i bet your "growing pot budget" will go up! hahahaha       :48:
> 
> 
> i'm growing my wife tulips, tiger lilies, and strawberries(choc covered strawberries her fav.). i'm growing my daughter roses, and my son wanted pumpkins.




This is awesome.. you are awesome. I'd rep you again if I could.  Excellent idea! 

Yeah I'm thinking of soil surely, but the 5gal DWC seems good too.


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## Locked (Feb 27, 2013)

Looks like our peeps have given you some great advice...I am a soil grower who has 3 hydro grows, all DWC under my belt. I have stayed with soil because for me it is more forgiving if you make a mistake or slack off on something. No matter if you choose soil or hydro if you are not Organic you will need a good ph meter,not those crappy strips. Ph is ultra important when running chemical nutrients. You really need to keep the ph within range for your plants to uptake the right nutrients and thrive. If you go the hydro route you will also need a good ppm meter. I buy all my meters at Eseasongear.com as they have great prices, quick shipping and good customer service. Good luck and green mojo.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Feb 27, 2013)

Thats great advice *Hampster*...Was going to add that I started soil...did a few DWC as well for my own thinking..I too choose the soil/organic...

*EllisD*....I started in a 16x12 Shed with 1000MH and christmas tree timer...lol...I grabbed ahold this site and the addvice from the community and have many stories along the way....some good ..some not...but main thing is what was said all ready...find a setup here simular to what you have and build upon it:aok:...and dont give up....and if your not legal than DONT TELL NO ONE!!!!!  do your braggin here...enjoy the journey...

:48:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks 4u! Yeah I'm just growing for my own medical purposes. I'm purchasing not so legally right now, at TOP cost, and not even nearly enough to sustain. 

I'm quite sick of it.. own 5.5 acres of land and have an area with full power, insulated above my garage not attached to my house. I think I have the perfect amount of space needed for a comfortable sized grow area for my own personal needs. I just need as much help as possible maximizing my area and process. Nutes and certain organic soil scares me, but I'm ready. More ready than I've ever been. 

Thanks for chiming in Hamster. With so many suggestions, maybe I should just give soil a shot for my first grow.  Just need to attain as much info / parts list / setup ideas as possible as quick as possible. I'm a decently fast learner at least, so hopefully my first grow will yield something worth at least smoking!


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

so soil with synthetic nutes or organic?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> so soil with synthetic nutes or organic?




Actually I'm going to go off of the general consensus with really everything. This will basically be a collaborative Passion experience. 

I want it to be easy enough, yield enough, be decently potent enough and stable. I want to do what the general mind thinks here. I'll consider everyones post.


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## ShOrTbUs (Feb 27, 2013)

well if you decide to go organic. to do it proper you'll need 3weeks to a month to cook some soil. which might be helpful since you still have to build your entire grow room still.

if your thinking you want to order everything and have it set up and ready to go in 1 week. synthetic nutes will get you going right away.

if keeping it simple is important then i'd lean more towards synthetic as well. i feel like theres a lot more to learn with organic.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

> well if you decide to go organic. to do it proper you'll need 3weeks to a month to cook some soil. which might be helpful since you still have to build your entire grow room still.
> 
> if your thinking you want to order everything and have it set up and ready to go in 1 week. synthetic nutes will get you going right away.
> 
> if keeping it simple is important then i'd lean more towards synthetic as well. i feel like theres a lot more to learn with organic.



Yeah I thought I saw organic has a bit more to it. I was looking for a quicker setup time when it happens too. 

So, now, I'll have to sort out nutes to be purchasing.. so I have them ready when it's time.


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## Locked (Feb 27, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Yeah I thought I saw organic has a bit more to it. I was looking for a quicker setup time when it happens too.
> 
> So, now, I'll have to sort out nutes to be purchasing.. so I have them ready when it's time.




Might I suggest General Hydroponic 3 part system? It is cheap, easy to use, and does a great job. You can also purchase it on Amazon and if you are a Prime member you get free 2 day shipping. I buy the one gallon bottles of it to get the best bang for my buck. Jmo


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 27, 2013)

I'm going to say this again because I feel it is real important....Buy good genetics.  You do not want to take a chance with seeds from unknown sources.  Hermies are horrible and can ruin an entire crop.  It is going to take 4-5 months to go from seed to cured bud.  Don't risk your entire grow with bagseed.  Later down the road when you are more familiar with growing and have your space dialed in (stress brings out hermies) and know how to spot males and nanners, then....maybe....you may want to  try some of those bagseed you have been saving.  But start with something that you are going to know what to expect--does it like heavy or light nutes, how long does it take to flower, what kind of high does it have.    

So, you have decided on soil?  I personally find single bucket DWC as easier or easier than soil, but that is just me.  Soil does tend to be more forgiving.  I would recommend GH Flora series nutes.  You can also use these if you decide to go DWC down the road.  Next you will have to decide on a soil brand and the amendments you want to add.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> Might I suggest General Hydroponic 3 part system? It is cheap, easy to use, and does a great job. You can also purchase it on Amazon and if you are a Prime member you get free 2 day shipping. I buy the one gallon bottles of it to get the best bang for my buck. Jmo




hxxp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0024NDVRA/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new 

That stuff?


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## Locked (Feb 27, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> hxxp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B0024NDVRA/ref=dp_olp_new?ie=UTF8&condition=new
> 
> That stuff?




Yeppers...that be it. Like THG said, don't overlook getting good genetics.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

> Like THG said, don't overlook getting good genetics.


Just hard to know who to trust to buy from really. Also, I do have some seeds that I do really want to give a try. Worst case scenario is they are male yes? Even if they aren't the greatest of strain (tho I'm quite sure I have some good ones) it would still be a yield yes?  And I can throw em away and buy new seeds. Even buy new seeds really at any point and just have them. 

Would love a recommendation. I believe indicas are what I'm looking for. I love Pineapple Express / Cheese / Skunk etc.


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## Locked (Feb 27, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Just hard to know who to trust to buy from really. Also, I do have some seeds that I do really want to give a try. Worst case scenario is they are male yes? Even if they aren't the greatest of strain (tho I'm quite sure I have some good ones) it would still be a yield yes?  And I can throw em away and buy new seeds. Even buy new seeds really at any point and just have them.
> 
> Would love a recommendation. I believe indicas are what I'm looking for. I love Pineapple Express / Cheese / Skunk etc.




Yes you could do a practice run with bag seed and you could yield well, the smoke could be good, and you would learn a lot. My first time I bought beans but had no clue what I was doing. I got some beans called Dutch Dope I believe.  Now I would know to steer clear of anything with the word Dutch or Dope in it.  Then I wasn't so wise and wound up with some pretty lame smoke, but I yielded well. I had this huge cola on one that looked like a three foot long 2 x 4.  My point is, you can't go wrong either way because you will learn a hell of a lot over the course of your first grow, and you will have become self sufficient at providing your own meds.... however, if someone had steered me in the right directions *before I purchased and popped my beans* I would be ever so grateful to them for helping me to not waste 4 months of my life for sub par bud when good bud was just key strokes away. 

You can get pretty good strains from our sponsor Nirvana. Just click the add at the top. It's pretty much discount beans in the sense of price as their prices are really really good. They do their versions of strains and there are some gems in their gear. You do also get duds and under performers. IMHO it is a great place for new growers on a budget to start at. Another place is The Attitude Seed Bank...which is probably the most popular. There you can get all the basics and some of the higher end breeders. When you get into the high end the Beans cost a lot more but the reward and smoke is usually worth it. I would not want my first grow to be with a 150 dollar ten pack. Talk about pressure.  

I would have a look at Nirvana and see if anything piques your interest....especially if you are on a budget.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 27, 2013)

If you know someone else who grows or is a medical marijuana patient have him or her hook you uup with clones. That is the easiest and fastest way provided they dont have pwdery mold or mites. Growing from seed like THG says is quite a long process, 4-6 months before you get any bud. Bagseed is great sometimes but its really hit or miss. Genetics genetics genetics. Its really the most important thing when one decides to grow. This is an expensive hobbie even going the cheap route and takes alot of time and patience. Id hate to see you discouraged on your first grow if it turns out like crap or hermies out and you get seeded bud. seeded bud is somokeable but all that energy that goes intio seeds is taking away from weight and trichome production. Basically you end up with schwagg weed and then youll have to start the whole process over afain. I dont know about you but with all the time money and effort i put into my grow id be pissed to get seedy schwagg! If you get good genetics and it turns out great after the initial grow you could be harvesting some killer smoke every two months or even 2 weeks in a perpetual grow like someone mentioned earlier and never have to waste any money, instead make a little money to recoup some of the expense it takes to get going. Ive seen this happen to so many people who try to grow using bagseed and end up broken down morally and never try growing again. We all want you to succeed! I know its a pain to access genetics but so worth it. At this point youve made up your mind you wanna grow and get some good stuff, so dont cut corners. order seeds or obtain clones somehow, trust me youll be so happy you did. youre about to make one of the biggest rookie mistakes next to over and under watering. We wouldnt steer you wrong, weve been where you are before. If anything give it some real hard thought. Once you get things dialed in and growing well, then try and pop a few of those bagseeds, youll love me for it I promise you! I know youre gonna do what you want I just really care to see you succeed! Go to attitude seedbanks website! trust me.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 27, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Just hard to know who to trust to buy from really. Also, I do have some seeds that I do really want to give a try. Worst case scenario is they are male yes? Even if they aren't the greatest of strain (tho I'm quite sure I have some good ones) it would still be a yield yes?  And I can throw em away and buy new seeds. Even buy new seeds really at any point and just have them.
> 
> Would love a recommendation. I believe indicas are what I'm looking for. I love Pineapple Express / Cheese / Skunk etc.



We can steer you to good seed distributors.  

Worse case scenario?  Hermies and/or poor quality.  Good yield?  Who knows as you really know nothing about the genetics.  Part of the problem with bag seeds is that you do not know how or what pollinated the seeds.  In other words, 1/2 of the genetics is totally unknown.  The female could have been pollinated by ditch weed blowing on the wind or the plant could have selfed, making hermies a real possibilities.  In addition until you get a space dialed in and some experience, you are most likely going to be stressing your plants, which increases the chances of hermies.

Attitude will have PE, Cheese, and different skunks.  Nirvana has some good prices on seeds, too.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

You are all very convincing and so appreciated I can't even explain how much. I'm going to plant my seeds later down the line "for fun" and purchase some for my first grow. I can see paying $35 for 5 good fem seeds as a good investment for sure. 

I'll chime in with which strand I choose in a few moments. I wanted to try 2 kinds, but I've read they each will require different things at different times most likely so don't try multiple strands at once for now would be my best bet I'd assume?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

After checking both Nirvana and Attitude, it's looking like I'll be purchasing G13 Labs Pineapple Express and getting UFO for free. 


Read the combo of what UFO is and it sounds great to me! 


Now the final decision is seeming soil with nutes (not organic).


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 27, 2013)

I like pro mix bx as it doesnt contain any nutes to begin with. then you are in total control with what she gets. Its a soil less mix made up of peat and humus and perlite. I like to add a lil dolomite lime to help buffer ph and some extra perlite for good drainage. Like hamster lewis said you should go with General Hydroponics 3 part line of nutes, cheap, and easy to use, but very effective. also with chem ferts youll want a ph pen to monitor ph, They sell for 30 bucks on ebay. Hanna is a good one. Also General hydroponics sells a ph up and down solution for adjusting the ph. Ideal for soil is 6.3-6.8. 6.5 being the sweet spot. Different nutes are uptaken at different ph levels so its very important to monitor this as it will look like nutrient defficiencies cuz the plant is not uptaking them properly. hope this helps.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 27, 2013)

Thanks HighBrix! It surely all helps.. I'll be looking into all that stuff to get purchased immediately. 

As for a light, I am highest bidder on this, what did you all think? (I'm sure it will go up out of my range, but I think it's worth taking a chance)

hxxp//ebay.com/itm/600W-MH-HPS-GROW-LIGHT-SYSTEM-DIMMABLE-REVOLT-DIGITAL-BALLAST-BULBS-INCLUDED-/181090318893?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a29d2fa2d&autorefresh=true

Also, is this the ph meter I'll need? 

hxxp://eseasongear.com/hahipophtehi.html


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## 4u2sm0ke (Feb 27, 2013)

You can buy organic soil all ready made...Fox farm makes some good stuff...But me personally would just go local nursery and buy the local organic poting soil...and use the GH part 3 nutets as said..and if ya choose to Run Hydro  Bam..Ya have the nutes for that as well...just get yaself a GOOD Ph meter...you will need to also know the Water your using...call the water company if they is one and ask for the purities/addatives in the water...I Love My Pineapple express....

:48:


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 28, 2013)

that light looks great but what is your price range? the ipower 600w dimmable mh/hps cooltube with xl hood i got from ebay was only 227 with shipping and came with hangers and both bulbs and timer. Its the buy it now option. i love my setup. works like a charm stays nice and cool. I get 12 inches from my canopy no problems! Hope you get that setup for what your bidding!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

@4u: Thanks so much I'll be looking into some of that absolutely! 

@HighBrix: You mean like this light? hxxp://growace.com/product_info/600w-hps-air-cooled-tube-digital-ballast-grow-light-kit.html

My price range is "around" $200.... I didn't realize that the vegging lights would be so expensive either, so I think I'm going to purchase the bulbs and use a 4 FT fixture I already have, just upgrade  the bulbs in them. HO T5  ... any thoughts? I didn't expect the vegging light to be so expensive too


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

Also, this action looks like a trap / scheme, even though the seller has lots of sales and nearly perfect transaction rate. Looks like for $116 you can pick your hood, your ballast bulb etc.... 

Anyone check this out? 

hxxp://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-600W-1000W-DIGITAL-GROW-LIGHT-KIT-PACKAGE-COMBO-SYSTEM-HPS-MH-HYDROPONICS-/370676583678?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D5911622846477949023%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D181090318893%26


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## TwoHighCrimes (Feb 28, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Also, this action looks like a trap / scheme, even though the seller has lots of sales and nearly perfect transaction rate. Looks like for $116 you can pick your hood, your ballast bulb etc....
> 
> Anyone check this out?
> 
> hxxp://www.ebay.com/itm/400W-600W-1000W-DIGITAL-GROW-LIGHT-KIT-PACKAGE-COMBO-SYSTEM-HPS-MH-HYDROPONICS-/370676583678?_trksid=p2047675.m2109&_trkparms=aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D5911622846477949023%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D181090318893%26


 
 Hey there EllisD,

Cool name  
One would wonder if you are already in some kind of trap/scheme ...
only sayin cos i never seen many ebay items with all of this 
   aid%3D555003%26algo%3DPW.CAT%26ao%3D1%26asc%3D142%26meid%3D5911622846477949023%26pid%3D100010%26prg%3D1076%26rk%3D3%26sd%3D181090318893%26

Kinda makes 1 steer clear.

Just sayin  
Carry on.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

That link I didn't pay for. I did bid on a used once system with a 100% feedback seller, but that was a couple posts ago. I just happened to see this other link and thought "errr.. scheme?" 


I won't be buying from that link ever for sure. 

Thanks for checking in TwoHigh and thanks for enjoying the name  It's a play on words with my last name.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

So the one I have the bid on, I was wondering.. considering it's been through 1 grow and how it looks, what's the highest I should big on this?

hxxp://www.ebay.com/itm/600W-MH-HPS-GROW-LIGHT-SYSTEM-DIMMABLE-REVOLT-DIGITAL-BALLAST-BULBS-INCLUDED-/181090318893?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2a29d2fa2d&autorefresh=true

This is going to be hotter I imagine. I think I should just snag a cool tube for $220.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 28, 2013)

I would just get the cool tube you wont be disappointed. it comes with a 3 year warranty and everything you need! My first ballast stopped working three weeks after I got it, and i contacted them they paid for shipping and took it back no questions asked. As soon as I shipped it and gave a tracking number they sent out a new one. I havnt had any issues with the new one. great company(hpsgrowlightstore). So yeah its a confident buy for sure!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

Oh wow, is it just me or is this exactly what I'm looking for at the best price I've seen yet? lol. Cheers HighBrix! 

hxxp://hpsgrowlightstore.com/hps1510/hot-best-value-1/ipower-grow-light-600w-hps-mh-dimmable-cool-tube-reflector-set.html


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## WeedHopper (Feb 28, 2013)

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> You can buy organic soil all ready made...Fox farm makes some good stuff...But me personally would just go local nursery and buy the local organic poting soil...and use the GH part 3 nutets as said..and if ya choose to Run Hydro Bam..Ya have the nutes for that as well...just get yaself a GOOD Ph meter...you will need to also know the Water your using...call the water company if they is one and ask for the purities/addatives in the water...I Love My Pineapple express....
> 
> :48:


 

Yeah,,I grew some PE outside last yr and have already smoked it all,,,DAMNT.http://marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=795271&postcount=7


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## Locked (Feb 28, 2013)

220 dollars free shipping. Comes with 2 bulbs, dimable 600w digital ballast, air cooled hood and not a cool tube, and pro grip type light hangers.



http://www.ebay.com/itm/600w-HPS-MH-Lamp-6-Air-Cooled-Reflector-Hood-Dimmable-600-watt-Grow-Light-Kit-/140921120948?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item20cf8da8b4


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 28, 2013)

IMO, an air cooled reflector will spread the light a lot better than a cooltube.  I only like cooltubes for small spaces with small wattage bulbs.  They just do not spread the light as efficiently as a large reflector in a large space.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

air cooled it is. (by the way, do I setup some kinda fan and duct system with it?)


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

Also, wondering where I can purchase pro mix bx in New Hampshire. I'd purchase online but shipping is ignorant. I don't really know how much I need either, but I'm sure I should find it or something like it locally and not order online lol.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 28, 2013)

they do make a cooltube with an xl hood thats approx 28x40 inches as a guesstimate. i dont have a tape measure. but it came with rope ratchet hangers a mh bulb hps bulb digital ballast and a timer. all for 225. on ebay. its the only one ive seen like it but the hood is huge with a cooltube running through it. stays cool and i have it 12 inches from my plants no problem.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 28, 2013)

Actually, jsmits has posted up a nice diagram showing the duct work, fan, and filter.  I hope he does not mind that I link it.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=201767&d=1362023793


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## 4u2sm0ke (Feb 28, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> air cooled it is. (by the way, do I setup some kinda fan and duct system with it?)




*TheHempGodess *linked ya good.(ya see how they changed to pull air from bottom:aok..I would get a cfm(vortex type) twice the size needed...a speed controller...if ya have the room place the cfm half way between the light and the side wall...than to the scrubber if using one...I pull air through the light...cools the light and brings fresh air into tent/room...I also thaught I had better light spred when I had aircool hood than I do with these cool tubes...


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## Dr. Green Fang (Feb 28, 2013)

Thank you very much THG and everyone else for the words! I will need to sort where to attain soil and  where/what to get for the right materials to make my room (I need to take a pic and show you guys the space and potential). 

I want to prep my room and have it ready.. that I can afford now. When I get t a x money back I'm going to use some of it for light etc. Going to buy the seeds tonight / tomorrow I believe. Those are going to stay good for a bit till I grow them. 

So much to do, so little money


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## HighBrixMMJ (Feb 28, 2013)

> So much to do, so little money _EllisD_


Welcome to growing, in the end its worth it and you can recoup some if not all of your money!


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## WeedHopper (Feb 28, 2013)

Yur gonna Love smoken your own Weed. Green Mojo to ya.:icon_smile:


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## 4u2sm0ke (Feb 28, 2013)

IMO..."the worst gram ya grow....is far better than any ounce you can buy"...


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## 4u2sm0ke (Feb 28, 2013)

Because Its ..Yours


Welcome to the Passion


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 1, 2013)

Thanks all, I really feel the care here  

This truly is a passion that I've had for years, but never thought of following through with it. I've had the perfect room for over 10 years, just no balls or "know how" to go through with it. I'm not a financially stable person entirely, so creating the room has always been and still will be, the obstacle. Hopefully with everyone help I won't waste much money getting a setup and I'll be able to create a proper working setup and maintain some plants.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 2, 2013)

Trying to find soil to buy locally, so I'm looking for what I assume is the right mix of stuff. If I'm wrong can you say why and show me to some soil that suits in Home Depot / Walmart / Lowes etc. 

hxxp://www.walmart.com/ip/Hyponex-by-Scotts-2-cu-ft-Potting-Soil/19581285


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 2, 2013)

Excellent Jimmy James, thank you so much! I'll get them after I get my grow room setup sorted out. So much planning to do, it's a bit daunting. I wish I could afford to just buy a tent!!


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## Jimmy James (Mar 2, 2013)

they have tents also"
Just rember to ask questions about Tomatoes !! Not MJ !


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 2, 2013)

LOL Jimmy!!! Cheers for that. 

Yeah I'm sure they have tents, I'm just running on a "smallish" budget


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 2, 2013)

Potentially great news!! 

I may be able to come across about $800 in the next few days. I'd have to sell something very dear to me, but it's not a one of a kind, so I could buy it back after harvest easily! 

I think $800 would be MORE than enough for a 6 plant 4x4 tent with proper everything! I've got a setup of around $700 already figured out and that's for everything.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 2, 2013)

Here's something I'm very much considering for my setup. This plus nutes soil and various things should put me in my $800-$850 range. 

What do you all think?  hxxp://growace.com/product_info/ga-600w-specialist-series-grow-package.html


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## Growdude (Mar 3, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Here's something I'm very much considering for my setup. This plus nutes soil and various things should put me in my $800-$850 range.
> 
> What do you all think?  hxxp://growace.com/product_info/ga-600w-specialist-series-grow-package.html


 
Its not a bad deal, there are some things there that you dont need like the two 15 watt led lights and sticky traps.

I added all these up from plantlighting hydroponics.com and it was a little less.
1 x  Sun Hut Silver 4x4x7 Indoor Greenhouse 
1 x  CAP ValuLine 600W SW Ballast 
1 x  CAP LumenAire 6 Inch Air-Cool Grow Light Reflector 
1 x  600W Sylvania HPS Mogul Base Grow Bulb 
1 x  Active Air 6" 400 CFM In-line Duct Fan 
1 x  Aluminum 3-Ply Air Duct 6 inch x 25F 
1 x  Phat 16x6 375 CFM Carbon Filter 
1 x  Active Air Hygro-Thermometer 
1 x  2 Gallon Plastic Grow Bag 25 count 
1 x  Titan Controls Apollo 8&#8482; Two Outlet 24 Hour Timer 
1 x  ProGrip 150LB Light Hanger Pair 
1 x  Floragro Vegetative Growth Nutrient Quart 
1 x  FloraBloom Flower & Fruit Nutrient Quart 
1 x  FloraMicro Micro-Nutrients Quart 


$621.00


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

I noticed that, but at the same time, the light / 2 bulbs / duct work / fan / filter / tent / sheers / digi thermo / grow bags / timer / nutes... I think $643 + $92 shipping is a decent deal for all of that. I've been trying to find the parts seperately and price them, but it's all coming just as high as this package with a few less things and all in different places to purchase. 

I'm trying to see if a grow store that's over an hour away will "match" that type of deal. I'd rather pick the stuff up myself unless I save over $100 buying separately. 

Thanks for stopping by Growdude!


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## Locked (Mar 3, 2013)

Yeah that is not a bad deal at all. Like Growdude said, couple things in there that are not needed.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 3, 2013)

i believe they ship by weight, so the price of shipping might not warrant buying from this site. if you try to find all of this on amazon, you will get relatively the same price, but without the outrageous shipping costs

ehydroponics.com

LUMATEK - 600/400 WATT DIGITAL BALLAST 120/240V $149.95
SUN SYSTEM - LOW RIDER 6" AIR COOLED REFLECTOR $74.95
ULTRA SUN - 600 WATT SUPER HPS $26.95
PRO MIX - HP 3.8 CF BALE $36.99
GH - pH DOWN Size: 1QT $6.95
GH - pH UP Size: 1QT $6.95
HANNA - CHECKER PH TESTER $32.99
HANNA - PRIMO TDS TESTER $34.95
GH - FLORAMICRO 1 GAL.  $22.95
GH - FLORAGRO 1 GAL. $19.95
GH - FLORABLOOM 1 GAL $19.95
GH - CALIMAGIC 1 GAL $27.95
HYDRODYNAMICS - CLONEX ROOTING GEL 100ML $14.95
C.A.P. - VALULINE 6" FAN - 435cfm $75.95
METALLIC DUCT 6" X 25' $14.95
C.A.P. - MAXLUME T5-26 (W/GROW BULBS) 25"X5"X21" $119.95

total: $687.28

couple measuring cups, some fiskers, zip ties, some good genetics and your ready to rock.

you can save money by building the spaces yourself and not buying tents. i have to mention how convenient tents are though.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

Wow, you must have edited your post Growdude.. that's an excellent list!  

Thanks for taking the time to check that all out, and yes, I knew some things weren't needed and that I needed more specific nutes. Only thing your list is missing is MP bulb, hah. 

I'm still in the market for a setup... $800-$850 for everything.. from seeds, to that list, to soil... I believe that's everything? lol


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

And Hello Shortbus. Thanks for swinging by! 

That list looks great, but it's all $200ish over my limit.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 3, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> And Hello Shortbus. Thanks for swinging by!
> 
> That list looks great, but it's all $200ish over my limit.



yeah, that price isn't including shipping either.

edit: i edited the previous post to better fit your price range

you can build your 2 spaces for about 50$. make your own humidity dome, and there are way cheaper pots out there. smart pots are the best, but a bit expensive.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

So here's the mission if you choose to accept it. I'm trying to do a 4x4 tent with 600w HPS system, fully vented and filtered, in soil with nutes. 

Seed, to soil, to everything absolutely needed for a grow... $850 


hah


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

I have a place 1 hour from here I'm trying to work a deal out with. We'll see what they have to say... I have $850 to work with, I'm sure I can get going with everything required from there.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 3, 2013)

Challenge accepted... shipping included on this one


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

Ohhhhhhhhhh :woohoo:


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## Growdude (Mar 3, 2013)

My list includes the tent,
 just add seeds and dirt Im sure its about 850 total shipped.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 3, 2013)

mine too mine too :hubba: 

sorry for the mix up this is actually included in the price, i didnt realize this item was on page 2.

honestly there are prolly several avaliable options to go with.


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## Locked (Mar 3, 2013)

I know folks seem to fear eBay tents but I have three that still work great. Probably shave 80 bucks off the tent price with a non name brand. Honestly that's a pretty good price for that tent short showed...so 80 bucks more might be worth it.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

Growdude said:
			
		

> My list includes the tent,
> just add seeds and dirt Im sure its about 850 total shipped.



Yep, your setup was $731 shipped. Just add seeds and dirt. 

Shortbus, your setup was comparable. Ok good, so it's possible to do what I need for $850 "round trip" (seeds etc) 

Going to collect these funds, and consider options... and make some purchases. I'm hoping that this place that is 1 hour from me will get a setup that is comparable for around the price, so I don't have to deal with shipping too many items here.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 3, 2013)

ps I love my ipower 600w light setup shortbus showed you...great buy!


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 3, 2013)

shortbus is almost there and at 633.00. but youll still need grow tent 48x24x60 115.00, ggod seeds 50.00, cloning gel 15.00, 10 pk 5 gal grow bags 5.00, T5 2' 4 light flouro veg light 120.00 and propagation tray w/humidity dome 10.00. puts you at 948 for everything youll need. if only you could scrounge up 100 more dollars!


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 3, 2013)

if you do it right youll be making all that money back in 6 months! plus have some smoke so you no longer need to buy it!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

> T5 2' 4 light flouro veg light 120.00...
> 
> ....if only you could scrounge up 100 more dollars!



I'm pretty sure I have a 3 or 4 foot light fixture that will fit T5 bulbs. I have a bunch of florescent light fixtures already!  For vegging stage.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

I probably should have said something about having a 4 bulb fixture and 3 two bulb fixtures.. so I'll use the 4 bulb fixture with T5's for flowering ya? Besides that, I need absolutely everything.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 3, 2013)

use T5 s for vegging hps for flowering.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 3, 2013)

Indeed  

I just need to buy the bulbs.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 4, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> I probably should have said something about having a 4 bulb fixture and 3 two bulb fixtures.. so I'll use the 4 bulb fixture with T5's for flowering ya? Besides that, I need absolutely everything.



I doubt it.  You need a T5 fixture for T5 bulbs.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 4, 2013)

Oh really THG?  Looked like the same type of connection for bulbs.


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## Growdude (Mar 4, 2013)

So you know you, you dont have to have a T5 for vegg.
You can go start to finish with HPS or MH.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 4, 2013)

I was going to do MH for veg in tent then switch bulb to HPS for flower this grow. I would like a T5 setup soon shortly after. I figure since this is my first grow the separate station for vegging wasn't needed. 

Cheers Growdude. Thank you for taking some time here my friend!


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 4, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> I was going to do MH for veg in tent then switch bulb to HPS for flower this grow. I would like a T5 setup soon shortly after. I figure since this is my first grow the separate station for vegging wasn't needed.
> 
> Cheers Growdude. Thank you for taking some time here my friend!



yeah first time around its not really needed. but if your going to be cutting clones then you need to have the veg room done before the first crop is finished. i usually take my clones a week after the flip. mostly b/c the levels of N in my nutrient solution have gone way down by that time. 1-4 weeks for the cutting to take root. then you still have 4-8 more weeks depending on strain till you can move the new clones into the flowering room. if its alrwady full. so you will have quite some time where you will need to have a place to veg out the new cuttings


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 4, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Oh really THG?  Looked like the same type of connection for bulbs.



I'm pretty sure that T5 tubes take a T5 fixture, T8s take a T8 fixture and T12s take a T12 fixture.  I know that I cannot put T5s into the T12 fixtures I have.  The T5 bulbs are 5/8" in diameter and the pins are about 3/16" apart


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## WeedHopper (Mar 5, 2013)

They deffinatly or different fixtures and different amps for different bulbs. Another words :yeahthat:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 5, 2013)

Thanks all for your words of amazing wisdom! 

Situation I'm dealing with now, is I wanted to purchase these items in my state... but no place will even come close to the price I'm getting, and I'm being told "buy cheap from the internet and you'll be sorry" .. but the products I'm cross referencing here are spoken decently highly of. So obviously they are just trying to blow smoke up my ***. 

I just didn't want to deal with deliveries and also .. IF I absolutely had to, I wanted everything to come all at once (hence why I liked that complete package deal so much) 

So amazing that these stores don't want to come down a little on their prices to make an $850 sale.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 6, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Thanks all for your words of amazing wisdom!
> 
> Situation I'm dealing with now, is I wanted to purchase these items in my state... but no place will even come close to the price I'm getting, and I'm being told "buy cheap from the internet and you'll be sorry" .. but the products I'm cross referencing here are spoken decently highly of. So obviously they are just trying to blow smoke up my ***.
> 
> ...



yeah i've noticed this as well. haggling has become a thing of the past in the retail market.


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## HomieDaGrower (Mar 6, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Thanks all for your words of amazing wisdom!
> 
> Situation I'm dealing with now, is I wanted to purchase these items in my state... but no place will even come close to the price I'm getting, and I'm being told "buy cheap from the internet and you'll be sorry" .. but the products I'm cross referencing here are spoken decently highly of. So obviously they are just trying to blow smoke up my ***.
> 
> ...


One thing you need to consider.  A local store, has a much higher operating cost, than an online seller.  While I understand the need to save money, by purchasing the big stuff online, I do buy a few things from the local, just to help them stay in business.  When there is an emergency, bulb blows, etc.  It is nice to not have to wait for a delivery, when you can just pop into the shop, for a replacement.  
   That said, I do buy most of my stuff online, and use the local for nutes, bulbs, smart pots, and soil.  

HomieHogleg


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

I'll be using local nutes, bulbs, pots and soil myself.. it's the most sensible thing to buy locally for sure!  

I imagine I can have stuff shipped to a UPS store and have them call my cell and I can pick it up there? Hope so.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

Good news! My item on eBay is going to sell for more than I expected. So it looks like I'll get about $900-$950 from that item, and should be able to chip in another $100 or so beyond that from wife.. so $1050 is looking more like my limit for seed to curing jars and everything in between. soil, tent, light, fan, duct nutes everything. 

Maybe I can get a deal now at the local place


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

Oh and did I mention how darn excited I am?!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

This is what I got for a quote from the store: 

1- Grow Lab-120 4x4x6'7" =$270
1- SunSystem Harvest Pro Elite 600watt Ballast =$178
1- Sun System Yield MasterII Supreme 6" Reflector =$120
1- Ultra Sun 600 watt HPS Lamp =$60
1-Active Air 4" HO Inline Fan 165 CFM =$105
1-Phat Filter 4"x20" Carbon Filter =$110
1-6"-4" Duct Reducer =$11
1-Active air 6"x20' Ducting with Clamps =$20
1-Active Air Hydrometer/Thermometer =$20
25- 2 Gallon Grow Bags =$8
1-Titan Control Apollo 8 =$13
1- Pair Progrips Light Hanger =$15
1- Flora Grow Q =$12.5
1-Flora Bloom Q =$12.5
1-Flora Micro Q =$16
1-FloraWing 125watt CFL for Veg =$65
Subtotal $1,036.00
Minus 10% cash Discount -$103.60
Grand Total =$932

I need help with this. What do you think first and second, what do you suggest? I want to buy and pick it up, not get delivered if I can help it. 

 Also, how many bags of Fox Farm do I grab? Anything else I should get immediately? 

Quick thoughts would be great! Any?


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 6, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> This is what I got from the store:
> 
> 1- Grow Lab-120 4x4x6'7" =$270
> 1- SunSystem Harvest Pro Elite 600watt Ballast =$178
> ...



your going to need a second 6"-4" reducer since you have a 4" fan and carbon filter, but have 6" hood. you still need a ph pen and ppm meter


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## WrEkkED (Mar 6, 2013)

Why don't you want to stick with a 6" inline fan? The cost is negligible and gets twice a much air flow.


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## HomieDaGrower (Mar 6, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> This is what I got from the store:
> 
> 1- Grow Lab-120 4x4x6'7" =$270
> 1- SunSystem Harvest Pro Elite 600watt Ballast =$178
> ...


Looks like a pretty good list, though I would have gone with T5 for veg light.  A 2ft 4 bulb T5 would give you slightly more lumen s for less electricity usage.  A 125 watt CFL only has 8500 lumens, while a 2' 4 tube T5HO gives you, if I remember correctly around 9500 lumens at 96 watts of power.  
    But other than that, looks like a pretty good beginning.   I would upgrade to the 6" fan and filter though.  

Have fun, and Green Mojo

HomieHogleg


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

Cost is a little bit more.. he offered me this too: 



> I have a Goblin 6" Carbon filter for $102 and a 6" active air inline fan cost $129 If you went that route it would be close to the 4" price



Could do that? :shrug:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

Alright, upgrade  to 6" is definite. Will do that.. thanks for the advice there guys. I was curious about that. 

Also: 



> I would have gone with T5 for veg light. A 2ft 4 bulb T5 would give you slightly more lumen s for less electricity usage



He said the T5 fixture is $50 more... I'm still in need of soil as it is.
What I could do is get right of CFL and T5 for the first month - month and half, and just do MH veg in the tent for the first grow. That'll free up some funds too.


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## WrEkkED (Mar 6, 2013)

I bought my setup online, In Canada, Which is more expensive than USA, and other than the tent and nutes I got everything you did for just under 600$ shipped. My tent is only 2x3x5 and cost 110$ so You should be around 700$. The online stuff (ebay) is awesome stuff. I have bought everything from dirtbikes to home improvement to grow materials and have never had an issue.

50$ for that T5 fixture is an awesome deal. My local wants 30$ for a single tube 3' fixture. 

Running 24/7 under fluros works really nice for keeping the plants short and bushy. I am in the same situation as you right now wondering should I run mh or get the T5 fluro (my originals were T8 4' fixtures that I didn't have in a tent). Hopefully someone with better knowledge chimes in, but from what I've been reading the mh will be way too hot to keep close to the seedlings until about week 2 and will thus cause them to stretch.


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## WrEkkED (Mar 6, 2013)

I will tell you this man, I learned the hard way. Buy EVERYTHING you need. Trying to cheap out really costs you in the end. I've spent more money trying to correct a ph problem in time for it not to affect growth than it would have cost me to get good soil and organic ferts.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

Yeah I'm getting FFOF and Flora nutes.  Quality Grow Lab and Sun Systems light + ballast. I'm happy to spend a little extra and get this locally and quality.  

I was looking at some stuff on ebay a lot cheaper, and it's just not worth it for the chance for me. I messaged one about the tent and he told me exactly as it was. A China made knock off that "had no brand name and was a generic high quality remake of popular models you'd see"


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 6, 2013)

> I carry ffof but i suggest sunshine mix rain forest.its higher quality and the bag is 33% larger than ffof



What do you think of this?


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

ok i just looked up the rain forest mix. they are = soils when it comes to your growing situation. they are both high end organic potting soils. they are both packed with organic nutrients. FFOF feeds your plants for about 4 weeks. i have no experience with sunshine rainforest, so i can't say with any certainty how long it will last before you have to feed the plants. with that being said. by the time your plants begin to bud, it wont matter anymore. you are feeding with synthetic nutrients so you are going to kill off all of the beneficial microbes within your soil. so even if there is organic food left in the soil by that time, it wont be utilized anyway. what i say to you is, go with the one that gives you the most soil per dollar. you still need a ph meter and a ppm meter. dont put these off too long. they are very important tools when it comes to synthetic growing

pick up some perlite too. look for a bag of perlite that consists mostly of the small pellets of perlite in it. i use 1 bag FFOF and mix it with a 1/2 bag of mg perlite.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 7, 2013)

dont be afraid to order online just be careful if youre not legal have em shipped to somewhere youre not growing! the safest bet is to purchase local if you can afford to spend the dollars, dont go without the ph and ppm meter! shortbus is right theyre super important to getting a good harvest!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

> what i say to you is, go with the one that gives you the most soil per dollar. you still need a ph meter and a ppm meter. dont put these off too long. they are very important tools when it comes to synthetic growing
> 
> pick up some perlite too. look for a bag of perlite that consists mostly of the small pellets of perlite in it. i use 1 bag FFOF and mix it with a 1/2 bag of mg perlite.



He said the bags have 33% more for the price and are extremely comparable. He also says, that everyone that has suggest FFOF to me works for them. (LOL!)

Ok, so glad to know that stuff would work, I just hate trying a product nobody else has tried  As for the perlite, yeah I got that sorted with him too. The PH meter I'll be most likely picking up online. Hanna meter, $32.99 at ehydroponics. Also, I thought the PPM meter was only relevant (mostly) with water based growths.. DWC etc. ?? 




> dont be afraid to order online just be careful if youre not legal have em shipped to somewhere youre not growing! the safest bet is to purchase local if you can afford to spend the dollars, dont go without the ph and ppm meter! shortbus is right theyre super important to getting a good harvest!



Not afraid per say but yes, going to go local for many reasons. 

and yea, I fully intend on a good PH meter.  


Thank you 2 so much for chiming in!


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## puffnpaint (Mar 7, 2013)

dude, here`s an idea for ya. if you`re using organic soil, why not ditch the synthetic nuts for an organic line up? i went from hydro with the flora to dirt with ff on the last grow and this grow i used the grow box from general organics. i wound up breaking a branch so i tried out some bud a month early and it is already better than the finished mother my buddy grew.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 7, 2013)

Don't be afraid to use the Sunshine mix, its good stuff. I know several who use and like it. Puffnpaint has a point that if you are starting out organic you can stay organic. Many people like the taste of organic better than synthetic, BUT there are many who like the taste of synthetic over organic(at least that I deal with). The only problem that I find with organic is that you really have to know and be able to read your plants as they have different needs. It is easier(in my opinion) to get deficiencies in organics if you don't know organics well, than it is with synthetic nutes. Most here who run organics all the way ammend their soil so that they avoid the deficiencies. But if you don't how and what to mix, you can get into trouble very quick, whereas with synthetic nutes you just follow a regamin and make sure the PH is on target each time you water/feed.

I highly recommend getting a ppm meter for any time that synthetic nutes are used. More often than not, those who start feeding with synthetic and don't use a ppm meter end up burning their plants. That is because the nute feeding schedule is a general guidline for general plant use, and every plant strain has its own feeding requirements. Following a ppm scale is safer until you learn the plants' needs.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks guys!  

Yeah I'm trying to stay as "easy" and efficient as possible on my first grow, hence this method for nutes. 

Glad to know the Sunshine mix is good! There's 33% more and he (store owner) says it's better anyways. I just thought he was blowing smoke up my ***, and I would buy something that would be stupid to do on the first grow!  

PPM.. check. Will do! 


It's getting close! Once I get these funds into paypal then transferred to my bank account, I'll be good to take a drive and pick this all up!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 7, 2013)

Are these prices from your local guy?  If so, they are not so good.  For example:

You are going to need the 6" fan and filter.  A 4" 165cf is simply not going to be enough.  Amazon has a Hydrofarm Active air 6" 400 cfm fan for $86.  hXXp://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-Active-Air-inch-In-Line/dp/B002JQ14F8/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1362669189&sr=8-4&keywords=exhaust+fan

Your light setup is a bit pricey.  I believe that you could save about $100 online.  Here is a air coolable 600W that is dimmable that comes with both a MH and HPS bulb, ratchet straps and a timer for $224 total.  hXXp://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLSETX600DHMAC6-600-Watt-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B005GYRZV2/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1362669881&sr=8-6&keywords=600w+hps

I would also recommend going with the T5 instead of a 125W CFL. 

The Growlab 120 at Amazon--$235.  And the list goes on.  In my years of growing (well decades), *I have found that it really pays to shop around.*  Look how much you can save on the light, (upgraded) fan, and tent from Amazon.  IMO, there is absolutely no reason to buy local if buying online can save you hundreds...and it appears that you can.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

I realize that it's not the best price.. by a solid $250.. but I didn't want to deal with multiple items from multiple places all coming to my home. BUT.. I believe I can send to UPS pick up store and just have them call me to say my package is ready? I mean, I don't want to spend more than I need to, because with extra money I could do some extra stuff!  

He tells me my tent will suck in with that much air flow. He explained the tent is 115 cubic feet and the fan is like 165 (random numbers off the top of my head) and it's more than enough, and 450 will suck the tent in. 

Also, said the CAP stuff is a well known fire hazard (I'm sure he's either A) Correct or B) Just blowing smoke up my *** to make a sale) 

I'm glad that the iPower stuff has been spoken decently highly of here.. I'd trust that product. 

I really trust you guys 110% more than him, but I don't want to ship stuff to my HOME is my ultimate concern. I'd prefer to buy everything (all the big stuff) from one place as well. (Maybe ehydro?) 

Please, if you guys don't mind, just help my noob mush brain sort this out. I see a few builds in this thread from excellent members, just taunting me to buy them because they are around $300 cheaper than this purchase an hour away. 

I have patience and I can wait, but I do not want to have stuff shipped to this door step. 

Please oh please sort this mush of mine.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Also, random thought for dialing in my room. 

I live in the North East and will be starting in 2 or so weeks. I have an electric oil space heater to use for warming the immediate area around the tent, and A/C unit for cooling in the summer months. Does this sound right, using these? I thought I've read along the way around here about people using both of those things. 

I imagine those 2 items are pretty key in dialing in a room for living in the north east. Just wondering if I'm crazy or not


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 7, 2013)

Keep in mind that this guy's first job is selling stuff, not to be your buddy.  I don't have much money and am for saving everywhere I can.  If you can afford to spend the extra $250 or more to get it locally and you feel more comfortable doing that, then go with that. 

Get a speed controller for the fan.  A fan the size he is recommending is not going to keep your tent cool.  I'm sure that I am not the only one who things this.  I have no problem with the sides of my tent being drawn in somewhat--that way I know I have good negative pressure.

I have never ever heard of CAP products being fire hazards.  Many people use CAP products with no fire hazard.

I don't know what the iPower stuff you are talking about is?  You heard a lot about it here?

I pull cool air from my crawl space in the summer and do not need to use an A/C.  I used to run space heaters in winter, but they take as much or more energy than a light, so.....this winter, I put up a tent next to my grow closet with the lights running opposite.  The hot air from each heats the other.  This works for me.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

THG... you need an app.... 

One that I can pull up on my tablet, and just ask you anything... forget SIRI!  :lol: 

I'm seriously... seriously... considering your exact DWC + Scrog method in a 4x4 tent (maybe 5x5) and 600w (maybe 1000w) light.. 6" system etc.... and if I can get the stuff shipped to a UPS pick up station, then I'll be able to afford this. 

I'm reading your darn scrog thread again... can't get enough.  I would like to do 4-6 plants with ultimate yield potential (regardless of my first grow or not) and your scrog DWC looks so welcoming. Something about Hydroton that gets my juices going when I see them! hah

*EDIT* Just read somewhere that you can pick up your items at a UPS Customer Care Center.. going to search more into that


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks.  I am old and have been doing this a long time.  I am a (semi-retired) plumber and working with water is second nature to me.  I will do some more with organics this spring, as my veggies did excellent, but I doubt that I will ever give up DWC altogether.  If you decide to set up a DWC, I can help.

You should do what you feel comfortable doing.  I live in a tiny little mountain community with no shopping, so I order lots and lots of things off the internet.  When I was plumbing a lot and ordered a lot more, one of my neighbors asked me if I was having an affair with the UPS guy as he was at my house so often :giggle: .  He was there a little more often than needed, but it was because he was a toker also. 

You might want to check out Dr. Fever's scrogs.  He does it on a larger scale and has some impressive pictures.

I predict a good harvest in your future.  While there is no substitute for experience, doing your homework and knowing what the plant needs and doesn't need and the ability to get quality growing supplies from the get-go really helps insure success.


----------



## WeedHopper (Mar 7, 2013)

THG knows DWC's. Her and Andy52 are the reason I started growing in DWC. Hell they are the reason I grow at all. Made me feel like I could do it.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

It just feels "right" .. since the inception of this thought coming into fruition for me, Hydroton and the pots and the entire process really got me going. 

THG. Do you think you can help with a full parts list for 600 or 1000w  / 4x4 or 5x5 growtent and DWC? I have $1,000 to spend, and would like to do 4-6 with scrog. 

I'll look into Dr Fever.. and I really can't thank you all enough for being there. 

DWC and Hydro in general seem "right" to me.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Growdude said:
			
		

> I added all these up from plantlighting hydroponics.com and it was a little less.
> 1 x  Sun Hut Silver 4x4x7 Indoor Greenhouse
> 1 x  CAP ValuLine 600W SW Ballast
> 1 x  CAP LumenAire 6 Inch Air-Cool Grow Light Reflector
> ...




I imagine, THG, that this plus all the DWC required stuff and seeds, measuring cups, sheers everything else... should get me in the $1,000 limit? 

If that's the case, then I got all the info I need for this room right here, I'll just need your parts list and description for DWC. 

I do notice the 3 nutes he listed, and that was for a soil grow.. not sure if those all change for the DWC.. I imagine they do!


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## puffnpaint (Mar 7, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Also, random thought for dialing in my room.
> 
> I live in the North East and will be starting in 2 or so weeks. I have an electric oil space heater to use for warming the immediate area around the tent, and A/C unit for cooling in the summer months. Does this sound right, using these? I thought I've read along the way around here about people using both of those things.
> 
> I imagine those 2 items are pretty key in dialing in a room for living in the north east. Just wondering if I'm crazy or not


don`t worry about heating around the tent. i live about 5 hrs north of you and actually use the heat from my tent to heat the upstairs of my house. the ipower light is fine! i`ve been running 1 600 since august and just ordered another one yesterday.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 7, 2013)

Here is where I get my lights. About the best deals and excellent fast service. I have 3 tents(5x5) and run 2 of these in each tent: hxxp://www.hpsgrowlightstore.com/hps1510/hot-best-value-1/ipower-grow-light-600w-hps-mh-dimmable-6-cool-tube-xl-set.html 

I love hydro myself, even though I do things a little differently than everyone else. I order stuff from these 2 hydro stores as well: discount hydro.com; plantlightinghydroponics.com  Between these 3 online stores, you can get pretty much everything you need shipped to you


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## Growdude (Mar 7, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> I imagine, THG, that this plus all the DWC required stuff and seeds, measuring cups, sheers everything else... should get me in the $1,000 limit?
> 
> If that's the case, then I got all the info I need for this room right here, I'll just need your parts list and description for DWC.
> 
> I do notice the 3 nutes he listed, and that was for a soil grow.. not sure if those all change for the DWC.. I imagine they do!


 
The nutes are for hydro or soil.

I dont know how "handy" you are but a DWC system is very easy to build
here is a video that shows how, and what is needed.
hxxp://vodpod.com/watch/673156-do-it-yourself-hydroponics-system


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

so have you not purchased anything yet, and still trying to decide which way to go? and are you now leaning towards dwc?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

lol, yes Shortbus  

I'm still waiting for my item to sell. But I think, I'll go with the list you guys helped me come up with for the room, and do 4-6 plants DWC with Scrog.



:icon_smile:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Growdude said:
			
		

> The nutes are for hydro or soil.
> 
> I dont know how "handy" you are but a DWC system is very easy to build
> here is a video that shows how, and what is needed.
> hxxp://vodpod.com/watch/673156-do-it-yourself-hydroponics-system




Thanks Growdude.. I've watched a few videos and I'm understanding the general idea now. He (and others) have mentioned you can do 6 plants in 4x4 with 600w HPS, but it's better to fill out 4 plants in that area. So, I think I'm settled on a 4 plant DWC Scrog. ... I think
















........maybe...... :hubba:


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

i did not add the 5 gal buckets b/c lowes have them for 3.50 and i have yet to see anywhere beat that price. also, there are 9 bucket lids, i didnt know how many you would be running, so i just picked what i thought would fit as a max number of buckets in a 4x4 tent.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Sorry for my confusion Shortbus, but there's cloning gel, sheers and a few other things I'm thinking could wait a month for me to pick up yes? Also, what about air pump and air stones? And then shipping hah

Also, I think first grow maybe I should just use the MH bulb in the tent then switch to HPS for flowering.. just for the first grow. (after a month I can pick up sheers, gel, T5 fixture extra ya?) What do you think of that? Just trying to get it around $1,000 shipped


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

i knew i was forgetting something lol. yes air pump and stones, and air hose as well. yes the sheers & gel can wait. as can the t5 fixture. all that can wait till you go to cut clones for the first time


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Yeah I'm working on a full list of MUST haves to start... the stuff that's needed a month after I can work on surely.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Believe I'm going to do king of like THG as in 20gal tupperware bins with 2 holes for 2 plants. I think 1 pump with 2 6" stones for one bucket and mirrored with the second bucket. 4 plants in 4x4 tent, 2 buckets scrog'd. I think I fully "see" it now. 

All this learning here at MP has been amazing. Countless amount of knowledge here and more than one way to grow a bud here for sure.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

2 of these pumps: 

hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/ecoplus-air-6w-2outlet-variable-control-air-pump-p-1516.html

And 4 of these stones:

hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/shopping_cart.php?sort=2a

Which makes me think, WOW that's quite a cheap price!


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

remember to try to use the same strain when putting multiple plants into 1 reservoir.

also, try to space the plants as far from each other in the reservoir. the roots will grow into each other, to the point where separating them is impossible. if one of the plants turns out to be male and you have to cull him out. all those dead roots in your reservoir can cause problems. also when doing a scrog, you wont be able to move the reservoirs after the plants have been woven into the netting. you will need a small water pump and hose in order to change out the reservoir.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> remember to try to use the same strain when putting multiple plants into 1 reservoir.
> 
> also, try to space the plants as far from each other in the reservoir. the roots will grow into each other, to the point where separating them is impossible. if one of the plants turns out to be male and you have to cull him out. all those dead roots in your reservoir can cause problems. also when doing a scrog, you wont be able to move the reservoirs after the plants have been woven into the netting. you will need a small water pump and hose in order to change out the reservoir.



Yep, I'm using Pineapple Chunk to start. I'm having the spacing around the same at THG's.. maybe even a bit further, as I'll have more room and slightly larger res. 

How is Attitude's Fem seeds? Getting 5 of them, and crossing my fingers for true fems. If there's a male, then yea, I'll have some work to do. As for changing my res out, Growdude linked a video that showed a nifty trick for a drain. OR yes, I have some cheap pumps that would get it out.. also I have wet/dry vac. 

Thanks for continued support Shortbus. You're one in a mill


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## WrEkkED (Mar 7, 2013)

I've ordered off of Attitude and Nirvana, I have had 100% germination rate with both. Both were outside and grew very nice plants. I wouldn't be concerned about quality or genetics from attitude at all.


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## Locked (Mar 7, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> How is Attitude's Fem seeds? Getting 5 of them, and crossing my fingers for true fems. If there's a male, then yea, I'll have some work to do.



It all comes down to breeder. Attitude is just a vendor that sells a bunch of breeders gear. Kind of like a mall. Most descent breeders fem gear is good. The only fem bean I have ever gotten a male from was from a freebie giveaway during a promotion. Other then that I have had no problems with fem beans. Other then the price.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Well I'm surely going to be cloning once I find out the sex... at that point Ill purchase a T5 and do a little side veg area.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

attitude is like a department store. attitude doesn't actually have seeds themselves, they sell seeds for other breeders. you dont have to worry about getting males when buying fem seeds. hermies happen from time to time, but i never hear about anyone getting a full on male.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Pretty sure I'm using 2 of these bins with 2 plants per, like THG did pretty much.

hxxp://walmart.com/ip/Rubbermaid-31-Gallon-Roughneck-Storage-Tote/21098644


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

are you still gonna buy bucket lids? i find them to be much sturdier then regular net pots. it makes handling larger plant easier


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

If you think the investment to Bucket Lids is worth it from regular Net Pots, then surely.   Every tutorial I saw, people were just using reg mesh net pots.... but I"m a noob and just absorbing my way along!


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

i did 10 plants in a 20gal res. they were reg seeds and i ended up chopping down 6 males leaving 4 females in the res. i had to use screws on the net pots to keep the 2 larger females from falling over. the lid on my tote was flimsy as well. you wont have the same problems i did if you buy regular 6" net pots. the weight of the hydroton will keep them upright. it takes a decent amount of hydroton to fill a 6" net pot. i suggest at least a 10liter bag, if your doing 4 6" pots.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Perfect.. now that all sounds good Shortbus.  

I'm picking up all that DWC stuff local (it's looking like).. just need tent and nutes and everything besides containment fully sorted.. which I think I have that all sorted at plantlighting hydroponics site. 

Things are starting to come together!  



So I germinate in water, then plug into rockwool.... veg in that am I correct so far?


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

i like rapid rooter way more then rockwool. rockwool has to soaked in ph'd water before use b/c they will raise the ph. ph is so so so important in hydro.

i just want to say before hand, that the way i germinate is way more complicated then it has to be. i just do it this way b/c its the way i like to. there are many many many ways to sow beans. many are much simpler then mine.

i soak my beans in a glass of water for roughly 2 days. in a dark place about 70F. by this time the seeds will have cracked if viable. then the sowed seeds go into wet paper towels for roughly 2 days. still in darkness. by this time the tap root is 1/4" or longer and ready to be transplanted into the rapid rooter plugs. i then move them into my humidity dome tray & placed under 2 23 watt cfl's. rr plugs are very good at wicking water to stay evenly moist. so i just put a little water at the bottom of the tray and the plugs do the rest. when roots show through the bottom of the RR plugs, then they are placed into the hydroton in nets pots, in a 10gal tote. i dont put my plants into the 20gal tote till they go into flowering. you will be wasting a lot of nutes if you go directly into the 20 gal res.you can do all 4 in the 10 gal res up to about 4 weeks. you just have to keep an eye on the root systems of the plants and make sure they dont get tangled with each other. i actually considered for my next dwc, cutting the bottom out of a large clear freezer ziploc bag. attaching it to the bottom of the net pot to keep the roots from drifting in the res and tangling themselves up.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

after the plants are transplanted into the 10gal veg tote, i start them at about 200ppm and i double the ppms each week till i hit 800ppm. only up the nutes 100-200ppm each weak after till i see slight nute burn, then back off a tad. remember to buy black totes that are very sturdy. and look for totes with thick flat lids. a lot of tote lids have a bunch of elevation changes on them that makes it complicated to drill holes for net pots to sit flush in.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Ok, Rapid Rooter it is  

I'm good with germination process up till the tray.  You say you put in hydroton but not into 20gal res... how do I keep the hydroton'd pots going outside of the 20gals? (sorry.. just a slight bit confused... surely will get it sorted)



> after the plants are transplanted into the 10gal veg tote



I don't know why but I'm confused from germination and general first few week growing in RR to limbo in 10 gal before 20gal? I'm missing something


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

these are some of my posts when i was doing the dwc in totes. the pics might help



germination:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=801236&postcount=9

veg tote:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=801990&postcount=16

flower tote:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=806976&postcount=33


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

And transplant into 6" pots + 20(30)gal after the 3" pots? 


So much confusion


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

ok i see where you are confused, sorry bout that. ok, you want to buy 3 totes 1 10gal, and 2 20gal. cut 2 6" holes in each 20 gal tote. cut 4 6" holes in the 10 gal. when you transplant from the 10 gal to the 20 gal's. just lift up the net pot, plant and all. and place it in one of the holes in the 20 gal. if you want you can use 4" net pots to save on how much hydroton you need, and how large of holes you have to cut into the tote lids.

but like i said before, the smaller net pot you use the more fragile they become. thats why it was a mistake on my part to use 3" net pots(as seen in pics above). when my plants reached 3ft and had heavy buds on them. the net pots didnt provide much stability without having to drill holes and zip tie them to the tote lid.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> ok i see where you are confused, sorry bout that. ok, you want to buy 3 totes 1 10gal, and 2 20gal. cut 2 6" holes in each 20 gal tote. cut 4 6" holes in the 10 gal. when you transplant from the 10 gal to the 20 gal's. just lift up the net pot, plant and all. and place it in one of the holes in the 20 gal. if you want you can use 4" net pots to save on how much hydroton you need, and how large of holes you have to cut into the tote lids.



+Rep! 

Thanks for clarifying so well! I understand now.... I'll just use 6" pots in both 10 and 20.. the plants won't be big enough to screw things up when closer to start... easier just to leave in 6" 

Excellent.. On the way! 9 hours and the ebay auction is over.. then pend my money from paypal into my bank account. 

Can.. not... wait!!!!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

I assume this stuff is just the same as any other hydroton? 

hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/gold-label-hydrocorn-45-liter-bag-p-4088.html


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

i can't stress enough how important it is that the roots dont grow into each other while in the 10gal totes. my original plan was to put the seeds in my 10 gal tote. then after i culled the males, i would transplant the remaining females into 5gal buckets. but after just 4 weeks from sow they had already grown together so much i couldn't separate them.

14 days growth

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=802827&postcount=19

21 days growth

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=803714&postcount=23

the plants are not ready to be transplanted at 21 days, but have already grown together. it wont happen as fast with your cause you have only 4 net pots, and i had 9. but i suspect at the end of 4 weeks with 4 pots in a 10 gal, will be grown together too much to separate and transplant.

not saying you cant transplant at 21 - 28 days anyway. but filling 2 20gal totes with nutes and water every 7 - 14 days will use A LOT of nutrients. 4 plants should fill the 10gal tote with roots at about 35 days. thats why i mentioned experimenting with the freezer bags.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> I assume this stuff is just the same as any other hydroton?
> 
> hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/gold-label-hydrocorn-45-liter-bag-p-4088.html



that will work perfect.

tip: wash your hydroton with ph'd water before use. the hydroton rubs together causing dust build up in the bag. you wanna get that all off. phing the water you use to rinse the hydroton will reduce ph swing in your res as well.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

Thanks.. that's a pro tip that I did learn earlier today watching a video that was recommended already in thread.

Glad to know that Hydroton will work.. figured it would. 

How about something like this for veg? I see 2 really large plants in one of these... should work for veg to keep roots away? 

hxxp://walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-12.5-Gallon-50-Quart-Wheeled-Latch-Box-Blue-Set-of-4/20699679

12.5 gal, and longer.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

yes but you dont want see through tote, unless you plant on covering it with something. light on roots is bad.

this one is similar to the one i use... hxxp://www.walmart.com/ip/Sterilite-10-Gallon-Stacker-Storage-Bins-Nickel-Driftwood-Set-of-6/17164519?findingMethod=rr

something i failed to add b/c i never used 6" pots in a tote before. 6" pots are prolly like 5-6" deep. the tote is only 7" deep, so the pot will sit very close to the bottom. i dunno if this will cause an issue or not. maybe THG can chime in on this one.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 7, 2013)

> yes but you dont want see through tote, unless you plant on covering it with something. light on roots is bad.



I'd spray paint the outside black, or even use black duct tape?  

And yeah, I was wondering about the depth, but check this picture: 

hxxp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-M6RweYDdlpI/Ts9qZK3ogNI/AAAAAAAAAcA/OzvmPTAlCbM/s1600/marijuana_scrog.jpg

That's a FULL flowering in scrog with clear sides and small bin. Surely I could use that bin for vegging only in my situation I'd think. 



> maybe THG can chime in on this one.



Indeed!


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 7, 2013)

yeah that looks real good. i still suggest going with at least 1 20 gal tote and 2 totes is even better. problem with what that guy is doing. he has to top off his tote every day i bet. the plants drink a lot of water at that point.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

hahaa I surely wouldn't use the totes that size into flowering like he did!!  

But surely 1 of those totes with 4 holes in each corner should work well for vegging? 

I mean, if not then surely I'll go the 10gal deeper ones and try to experiment with root deflection


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

Well, after $86.00 IN EBAY FEEEEEEEEES....... mad I'm going to be short for my list. The room is going to have to wait another week or so until I can get funds to finish the room. (Just noticed $29.00 in Paypal fees too.. this is depressing lol) 

Here's the room I'm surely getting. I still need 3 bins, SEEDS and some other various items. 

What I'm going to do is buy seeds RIGHT off... since they take a bit of time to get to me. Any suggestions with purchasing those? I'm adding the extra fee for the "crush proof" tin they repack into. 

Room and some immediate supplies: 

1 x 	GH CALiMAGic Qt
1 x 	Phat 16x6 375 CFM Carbon Filter
1 x 	Aluminum 3-Ply Air Duct 6 inch x 25F
1 x 	Active Air 6" 400 CFM In-line Duct Fan
1 x 	Gold Label HydroCorn 45 Liter Bag
4 x 	Eco Plus 6 Inch Air Stone
1 x 	600W Sylvania HPS Mogul Base Grow Bulb
1 x 	GH1514 pH Control Kit
2 x 	EcoPlus Air 2 6W 2-Outlet Variable Control Air Pump
1 x 	CAP LumenAire 6 Inch Air-Cool Grow Light Reflector
1 x 	Rapid Rooter Organic Plugs 50/bag
1 x 	CAP ValuLine 600W SW Ballast
1 x 	Sun Hut Silver 4x4x7 Indoor Greenhouse
1 x 	Active Air Hygro-Thermometer
1 x 	Titan Controls Apollo 8&#8482; Two Outlet 24 Hour Timer
1 x 	ProGrip 150LB Light Hanger Pair
1 x 	Floragro Vegetative Growth Nutrient Quart
1 x 	FloraBloom Flower & Fruit Nutrient Quart
1 x 	FloraMicro Micro-Nutrients Quart
1 x 	Hydrofarm FLP44UN 4FT 4 Lamp T5 Fluorescent Grow Light
1 x 	GE 54W 48 Inch 6500K T5 HO Fluorescent Lamp 4.pack

Sub-Total:	$844.61
United Parcel Service (Ground):	$173.76
Total:	$1,018.37

Sorting things out now that I DO have most of the funds. ...... I need to sell something else, I hate not buying the ENTIRE package of something to be ready!! 

So if anyone can check this list and find out how to trim.. $150 or so facepalm


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## key2life (Mar 8, 2013)

Wow, Ellis D, best of luck and _*greenest *_mojo for your upcoming grow!

Measure twice and cut once, eh? 

peace,

:icon_smile: key :icon_smile:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

Thank you Key! I think I'm getting things fully sorted out for sure! 

This forum has been so amazing, I just feel like I can not mention that enough. 

Almost wish I had a couple of you on my tablet though, just ready to answer questions! Direct convo, back and fourth... like a portable "mirror mirror on the wall" lol.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Mar 8, 2013)

Ive only had ebay fees when I sell stuff...what was the fees for?

mojo for the grow
:48:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

For selling stuff  

You must have missed the rest of this thread 4u hah. I had to sell a very prized possession just to get the money to fund the entire grow...and after fees, I'm still shy about $150.00  

It's $89.00 eBay fee and $29.00 paypal fee.  

Hopefully I'll find another couple hundred sooner than the next couple weeks... but if not then I must wait to compile more funds.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 8, 2013)

I don't think the air pump you listed will be enough.  It comes with a 6 way splitter.  You want the water to look like it is at a full boil.  This is what I use:  hXXp://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-AAPA45L-20-Watt-45-LPM-Commercial/dp/B002JPRNOU

What light have you decided to buy?  I notice that you have everything listed separately?  A lot of the set-ups come with the timer, the MH bulb, and the light hangers included.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

There you are THG. There's a "sweet spot" of time when you come around, so I'm going to use your knowledge best I can while you're here!  

As for the pump, it's a 6w 2 outlet pump.. isn't that exactly what I need? Two 6" airstones, one for under each plant? I saw that used in a video Growdude linked. :shrug:  Gladly correct me if I'm wrong. 

As for light, here's the combine parts for the light setup: 

1 x CAP ValuLine 600W SW Ballast
1 x CAP LumenAire 6 Inch Air-Cool Grow Light Reflector
1 x 600W Sylvania HPS Mogul Base Grow Bulb

Then 6" 400CFM fan, 6" Carb Filter


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 8, 2013)

Hey Ellis, You were asking about seeds earlier. I think you had mentioned a day or two ago that you were interested in Pineapple Chunk from Barney's Farm. I am currently growing that in hydro as is 2 of my buds, and everyone really likes it. Good smoke, good high, pretty easy to grow, nice yields, and clones easy. The phenotype that we got is a bit leggy but not bad. We got it femenised and had no trouble with it at all. Its a very sturdy plant that handles training well early but gets really woody the older it gets, which makes training a little tricky. I wouldn't try to grow this one in scrog because of the legginess of it.

I also like Larry OG Kush. Its a shorter bushier plant with smaller but very sweet smelling buds. Not difficult to grow or clone. It seems to do well in scrog. The last run of it was a very nice ballanced high. The buds are not as big as others I have grown but it makes up for ther size with a greater number of nice nugget size buds.

Another one that a lot of my smokers really like is Blue Mystic. It yields nice with very good size buds. Very heady Sativa high, and an unbelievably sweet "maple syrup" smell and taste. She takes well to training and would be a good candidate for scrog. A little tempermental to grow(for me at least) but not bad if the environ is kept under control. This one also clones very easy.

I hope this helps ya some


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 8, 2013)

LOL--I am on here almost every morning, but through the day, it pretty much depends on how nice the weather is and whether I can get out of the house.  

How much air does it make?  I have not had much luck with the smaller air pumps.  I have just found using a single larger pump with splitters for the air lines works best for me.  I have an air pump that is over twice that size that I am not using now since my flowering room is not full--it will run 12 air lines easily.  

How much is your light setup costing (include the cost of the MH bulb, the timer, and the hanging straps)?

A pheno that is a little leggier may be an asset for scrog.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

HushPuppy, thanks so much for checking in!! I very much value what you said  

I'm a big Pineapple Express / Skunk fan, so I hadddd to go with the Pineapple Chunk!  But I'm up for any Indica dominant strain that smells very skunky and tastes earthy / skunky . 

@ THG: Well I appreciate any and everytime you step into this thread.. especially since I'm set on DWC with Scrog now.  

Light: $232.69.. no MH, since I did end up factoring in a 4' T5 setup.  

Also, I'm trying to buy everything in one spot so it all gets shipped together. I'm shipping to a UPS store that's 15 minutes from me.


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## HomieDaGrower (Mar 8, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> HushPuppy, thanks so much for checking in!! I very much value what you said
> 
> I'm a big Pineapple Express / Skunk fan, so I hadddd to go with the Pineapple Chunk!  But I'm up for any Indica dominant strain that smells very skunky and tastes earthy / skunky .
> 
> ...


Hey Bro, to get your costs down further, check out Grow Tent Package deals, on Ebay.  Then look at the same seller, to pick up the other things on your list.  With such a large purchase, you will find many sellers will ship for free.

HomieHogleg


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

@Homie: All the prices I've been comparing on eBay since your post, are directly comparable to this package I have sorted out on plantlighting hydroponics. :/  

Thank you for the suggestion, I would love to safe some money!  

There's a few things I'm trying to not cut corners on, and tent is surely one. Lots of China made generics that I'm sure work alright, but I'd rather not chance it.


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## HomieDaGrower (Mar 8, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> @Homie: All the prices I've been comparing on eBay since your post, are directly comparable to this package I have sorted out on plantlighting hydroponics. :/
> 
> Thank you for the suggestion, I would love to safe some money!
> 
> There's a few things I'm trying to not cut corners on, and tent is surely one. Lots of China made generics that I'm sure work alright, but I'd rather not chance it.


I understand where you are coming from.  But as a proud owner, of 2 different cheap tents, I have had no problems with either of mine.  And yes, you have picked a good company to purchase from.  
HomieHogleg


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

It's great to know some of those generic tents are good, surely! I'll be expanding in the future and I'll gladly chance it then  

As for my grow room, it's looking like I need a solid $200 more.. so time to look for stuff laying around the house that has value to sell. I have a few things I can think of, just not sure how well they will sell. 

So... close....


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

I know eventually I'll get this sorted out, but what grow schedule should I use? Also, should I adjust from the chart to something else for weed specifically? 

Man I feel so newbie ish!


----------



## ShOrTbUs (Mar 8, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Room and some immediate supplies:
> 
> 1 x     GH CALiMAGic Qt
> 1 x     Phat 16x6 375 CFM Carbon Filter
> ...



the 4ft t5 goes for about 150$ right?, you can buy a MH bulb for about 30$. you won't need the t5's till cloning, which is 4-8 weeks from popping your beans. couple cfl's and fixtures laying around the house will get you through your first seedling phase, before you bump them up to the mh bulb.

i advise against the 6" air stones. i bought a few of the 6" and 12". they dont stay at the bottom of the res cause their too light, and they get tangled in roots to the point where i broke a few trying to get them out.

how much was the hydroton? 45 liters will last you a very long time. maybe you can trim a few bucks by getting a 10liter bag.

ph test strips wont cut it in hydro. you still need a ph and ppm meter.

hxxp://www.ehydroponics.com/ecoplus-air-stone-medium-round.html?&cid=318 <<< i buy the medium, very heavy and puts off a nice 12" diameter circle of bubbles. used 2 on my 20gal tote grow.



			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> How much air does it make?  I have not had much luck with the smaller air pumps.  I have just found using a single larger pump with splitters for the air lines works best for me.  I have an air pump that is over twice that size that I am not using now since my flowering room is not full--it will run 12 air lines easily.



while i agree with THG that the big  pump with a quality splitter would be ideal. i have to say though, i've been running that exact ecoplus 2 outlet pump for 10 months straight now. bubbling 2 5gal buckets of water 24/7 so that i always have de-chlorinated water available.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

> the 4ft t5 goes for about 150$ right?, you can buy a MH bulb for about 30$. you won't need the t5's till cloning, which is 4-8 weeks from popping your beans. couple cfl's and fixtures laying around the house will get you through your first seedling phase, before you bump them up to the mh bulb.



Yeah, works for me. I just thought it would be best to get the fixture right off. Just trying to sort the entire process in my head, from seed germination to harvest.. and I get my mind snagged between them growing a few inches and just before flowering.. you explained it before but I'm not 100% grasping it. Going to re-read what you said and sort it out. 



> i advise against the 6" air stones. i bought a few of the 6" and 12". they dont stay at the bottom of the res cause their too light, and they get tangled in roots to the point where i broke a few trying to get them out.



I was going to use Fishing sinkers. That's what a guy in a video mentioned.  



> ph test strips wont cut it in hydro. you still need a ph and ppm meter.



Meters weren't on the list but I know I need them. Seems I'll get the $36 Hanna digital meters that aren't water proof.. because $75 for a single meter is .. WOOOOOO! 



> how much was the hydroton?



$28.90 and it was the only sized bag they have. 



> while i agree with THG that the big pump with a quality splitter would be ideal. i have to say though, i've been running that exact ecoplus 2 outlet pump for 10 months straight now. bubbling 2 5gal buckets of water 24/7 so that i always have de-chlorinated water available.



Yeah, the guy in the same video (does shoutouts to this forum) uses this exact pump. 

Thanks again Shortbus. I'm researching literally 14+ hours straight everyday for the last few weeks... I'm getting all the terms and the thought process sorted mostly, it's just a few areas I'm a bit confused with.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 8, 2013)

i was doing the exact same thing about a year ago


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

> i was doing the exact same thing about a year ago



I actually can't get enough, and feel that it's really preparing me. I'll still have another couple of weeks before the tent is setup, so it's nice to keep playing out the growing scenario in my mind. I've watched a few "start to finish" EBB and FLOW tutorial videos but not much on DWC... and even then, the DWC I'm seeing is with single 5 gal buckets. I'm starting to wonder if I could do 4 buckets instead of 2 20 gals. 

Decisions, decisions!


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 8, 2013)

you 100% could do 4 5gal. but i wouldn't recommend doing a scrog with them. unless you drill holes in the rim of the lids to fit the hose for your shop vac. you wont be able to remove the lid when you begin weaving your plants throughout the netting.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

Yeah I'm thinking of 5gal buckets... if I do that maybe I'll do 5 or 6 plants instead? And if I did the buckets I don't think I would scrog. 

Really just trying to be sure of myself, but do some things to really push a "first time grow"


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 8, 2013)

i say you go with 4 buckets no scrog. 4 buckets is perfect for a 4x4 space. 4sq ft per bucket is a good ratio.

remember to buy double the amount of buckets. it makes your life so easy when doing reservoir changes.


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## HomieDaGrower (Mar 8, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Yeah I'm thinking of 5gal buckets... if I do that maybe I'll do 5 or 6 plants instead? And if I did the buckets I don't think I would scrog.
> 
> Really just trying to be sure of myself, but do some things to really push a "first time grow"


That is why I went soil, to begin with.  I am interested in DWC, but I already knew how to grow in dirt, before I started growing indoors.  I am still thinking about DWC, but it is hard to change, when you get soil growing dialed in.  I might try DWC, next fall when I start back.  I will be shutting down my indoor grow, in early May.  Too expensive to keep my tent cool, through the summer.  
Best of Luck to you Bro.

HomieHogleg


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 8, 2013)

> i say you go with 4 buckets no scrog. 4 buckets is perfect for a 4x4 space. 4sq ft per bucket is a good ratio.
> 
> remember to buy double the amount of buckets. it makes your life so easy when doing reservoir changes.



Indeed, thanks for the pro tip there! That's what scared me so much about a DWC system, was changing the res out. Four 5 gal buckets with pots it is! 



> That is why I went soil, to begin with. I am interested in DWC, but I already knew how to grow in dirt, before I started growing indoors. I am still thinking about DWC, but it is hard to change, when you get soil growing dialed in. I might try DWC, next fall when I start back. I will be shutting down my indoor grow, in early May. Too expensive to keep my tent cool, through the summer.
> Best of Luck to you Bro.



Well, I'm going to have a very detailed (and noob filled) grow journal going on as soon as I set up my tent. It's going to be loaded with questions along the way, so really hoping to continue getting this excellent support and feedback. 

You are all amazing!  

@Homie: Do you live South / North East / Mid East / South West / North West? 

I live in the North East so my climate is a bit crazy. I'l be starting off with cooler temps, but the temps in the area do get pretty warm as the season moves on. Think I'll have to run an A/C on low just to keep it down a tad from late May on?


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 9, 2013)

i'm in the northeast, and i'll be running my room this summer. the central air keeps the room temps in check, b/c of all the air exchange.


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## HomieDaGrower (Mar 9, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> i'm in the northeast, and i'll be running my room this summer. the central air keeps the room temps in check, b/c of all the air exchange.


I only wish, that I could afford to keep the thermostat low enough to do that, but it is pretty hard to do when outside temps are in the upper 90s, and the low 100s.  
Homiehogleg
P.S. I ran a smaller tent, with a 400 hps, last summer, and had major trouble with heat stress.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 9, 2013)

> the central air keeps the room temps in check, b/c of all the air exchange.



Are you talking about the fan(s) inside the tent? Not home central air conditioning right? 



> I only wish, that I could afford to keep the thermostat low enough to do that, but it is pretty hard to do when outside temps are in the upper 90s, and the low 100s.
> Homiehogleg
> P.S. I ran a smaller tent, with a 400 hps, last summer, and had major trouble with heat stress.



My tent is going to be above my garage that not attached to my home.. It's a fully insulated space, with all electrical wiring, and just lacks running water and drainage. I'm hoping I won't have to throw in A/C unit in a window to keep it down in the summer, and not have to run oil heater during the colder times. I can do these things, just rather not lol!


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## HomieDaGrower (Mar 9, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Are you talking about the fan(s) inside the tent? Not home central air conditioning right?
> 
> 
> 
> My tent is going to be above my garage that not attached to my home.. It's a fully insulated space, with all electrical wiring, and just lacks running water and drainage. I'm hoping I won't have to throw in A/C unit in a window to keep it down in the summer, and not have to run oil heater during the colder times. I can do these things, just rather not lol!


Since I don't know what the climate is like where you live, I can't say, but down here it gets too hot.  HPS lighting creates a lot of heat.  I am running 1000 watts, in a 4X4X7 tent.  This time of year, my temps, inside my tent, reach a max temp, between 81-82 degrees.  I run my flower room, at night, to cut down the temps.  I keep the central unit on 64 degrees, and vent my tent outside the room where the tent is.  In this way, the lights help keep the central unit from kicking on as often.  But yes, heat could be a real problem, for some people, in the summer months.

HomieHogleg


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 9, 2013)

HomieHogleg said:
			
		

> I only wish, that I could afford to keep the  thermostat low enough to do that, but it is pretty hard to do when  outside temps are in the upper 90s, and the low 100s.
> Homiehogleg
> P.S. I ran a smaller tent, with a 400 hps, last summer, and had major trouble with heat stress.



90 - 100 here in the summer too, and i run 600watt in a 3x3. i run my central air at 64F all summer anyway. the room runs a little hot 80F-85F, but still very manageable. 



			
				EllisD said:
			
		

> Are you talking about the fan(s) inside the tent? Not home central air conditioning right?



yes, i am talking about the central air in the house. i know it wont work for you b/c your growing above your garage. a window unit might work though. all you have to do is a "dry run" at the beginning of summer to see if the a/c unit will work or not. just run the room with nothing in it for a few days and keep checking the temps and rh within the room. if you can keep the it stable then you can grow.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 9, 2013)

I have found that when running a grow in temp extreems, it makes things easier to create a room within a room so that you can better control the temps by heating or cooling the air in the outer room before pulling it into the inner room(tent) where the plants are. If you are growing in an attic space then you need mega insulation to block out as much heat as possible. I also use a portable ac and a portable water chiller to chill my hydro res water. That alone does great for keeping the plants cooler. while the portable ac removes a lot of humidity from the incoming air


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 9, 2013)

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> I have found that when running a grow in temp extreems, it makes things easier to create a room within a room so that you can better control the temps by heating or cooling the air in the outer room before pulling it into the inner room(tent) where the plants are. If you are growing in an attic space then you need mega insulation to block out as much heat as possible. I also use a portable ac and a portable water chiller to chill my hydro res water. That alone does great for keeping the plants cooler. while the portable ac removes a lot of humidity from the incoming air



:yeahthat: i'll be running portable a/c and a water chiller soon as i afford them. right now my water chiller consists of rotating coke bottles full of water from the freezer to the res, and back.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 9, 2013)

I did that for a while. It works but it was a real PITA for me as I don't live close to my grow. :doh:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 9, 2013)

Cheers for all the replies!  

I'm going to have ability to use electric oil heat if needed to warm the room in cold temps, and since we run 3 a/c's in the house during warm months anyways.. what's just 1 more A/C unit?  

As for water cooling.. I saw a decently cheap way with DWC is to contain the container... in another container. Then put some water in it and 1 two liter frozen jug of water.  


Update as for this planning.. I'm still waiting for funds to pend through Paypal then I'll need $200 more. Over $1,000 for something I had no clue of less then a month ago. Good idea? lol.. let's hope so! It should pay for itself just in how much I'll save on personal purchase in less than a year.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 9, 2013)

ha, that sounds like a PITA. within walking distance?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 9, 2013)

I also will have LOTS of time to be able to tend and check my setup. My Grow Journal will be bumped multiple times a day with multiple pictures, and videos to document this grow but mostly so I can ask 1,001 questions. 


You guys are going to loathe me. hah!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 9, 2013)

Found this rather helpful to keep around (I think) .. what do you think?


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 9, 2013)

Yeah that is a handy scale to hold on to. Don't worry about bugging us with a thousand ?. We love to talk shop when it comes to growing MJ 

Shortbus: I have to drive across town, about 20minutes away from me. It works out ok as I have to go out every morning anyway which puts me just about 5-6minutes away from it. I wanted to have it at home but the wife wouldn't sleep at night if I did


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 9, 2013)

i hear ya


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 9, 2013)

Alright little update.

Got a picture up of the room I'm going to be using. Obviously it needs to be cleaned out, as it was used to store some of my mothers old stuff and some boxes and random things. Just one angle of the room, but I'm hoping to put the tent to the left in this pic (obviously with everything cleaned out)


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 9, 2013)

Also, I have a pretty good question... 

How is changing your res in DWC bucket system when the plant gets huge?! I can understand doing it up till a point, but my mind starts to boggle when thinking of doing it many weeks into flowering! 

The ability for a "side res" really turns me on, but the super bubbling action and "ease" of bucket DWC is even more so getting me! 

The good fight continues!


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## puffnpaint (Mar 10, 2013)

just use a different bucket. fill one up and put the plant in there then clean that bucket, fill it up, put another plant in there and repeat.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 10, 2013)

No, I fully understand that, my point is, when the plant gets large, isn't it going to be hard to transfer to a new bucket? Do you stop changing it out in the end of flowering? 

This is all I'm confused about really. Wouldn't want to drop / ruin my plant into flowering.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 10, 2013)

^ Still need that question answered for sure, but I had another one. 

If living in the North East, in my situation (insulated non heated or cooled - unless I do so on purpose) spot above my garage, when should I run lights and dark time? I thought I read somewhere someone ran their lights (obviously speaking 12/12) during the night. 

So between "when to run lights" and "how is changing the res on a LARGE PLANT" ... hopefully we'll get some good answers between these two questions  


Thanks as usual all, and greenest of mojos to all!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 10, 2013)

Doh, I think my thread got looked over today  

Sundays.. meh.


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 10, 2013)

its not that bad, the root ball does get rather heavy towards the end though. still, all you have to do is prep your new bucket. pop the bucket pot, lift it up and let the roots drain a bit, then move it to the new bucket.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 10, 2013)

Thanks Shortbus!  I just watched a video no more than 5 minutes ago where he lifted it out and it was a clump THE SIZE of the bucket. So it's nice to see  

What do you think about when to run lights for someone in the North East? (Unless you can't speak for that one)


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## Growdude (Mar 10, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> What do you think about when to run lights for someone in the North East? (Unless you can't speak for that one)


 
You do what you have to to maintain the correct temps for your grow, its going to change as the weather changes.

Its going to be a challange in the NE with no heat outside, depending on when you grow.
Also gets plenty hot so you have to be able to adapt.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 10, 2013)

Indeed thanks Growdude. 

Man I'm really going to be bothering you guys for weeks. I'm so diving in head first. Over $1,000 going into something I don't even know if I can make work. Something I could get over a month or 2 into and can STILL ruin my product. 

Just don't want to spend all that money for no reason but making my wife mad.  


lol.. ok, now that I verbally said that doubt, I think it'll be alright.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 10, 2013)

I live in the southeast and it gets mid 20s at night during winter, and upper 90s in the summer. I run all mine at night. lights on at 9pm, off at 9am. It works to keep the plants warm at night during winter and allows them to run cooler in the summer. 

You will have no choice in the summer unless that place is incredibly well insulated, you will have to have air conditioning. If you don't like the idea of having a "window unit" in there, you can get the portable units, but they have to have some way to exaust their heated air and their condensated water from the humidity in the air. 

I have holes in my floor so that(in the summer) fresh(cooler) air comes in from under my building and gets sucked right into my ac where it is cooled and dehumidified some before being blown up around my tents. I have a vent hose that comes off the ac and goes into my attic exaust vent in the roof of my building. The exaust fans that sit above the tents pull the heated and stale air out of the tents(through the lights to cool them and through the carbon filters to scrub the odors), which in turn pulls the cooled fresh air into the tents from the inside of the building. This setup works well for me in both summer and winter.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 11, 2013)

Wow, nice reply Hushpuppy, thank you so much! 

Silly question, but I keep my air stones running 24/7 the entire grow correct? I assume the answer is "absolutely"


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 11, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Indeed thanks Growdude.
> 
> Man I'm really going to be bothering you guys for weeks. I'm so diving in head first. Over $1,000 going into something I don't even know if I can make work. Something I could get over a month or 2 into and can STILL ruin my product.
> 
> ...



LOL--You can "ruin your product" at any time--up to and including the dry and cure.  However, diving in head first is the only way to go.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 11, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> LOL--You can "ruin your product" at any time--up to and including the dry and cure.  However, diving in head first is the only way to go.



LOL.. way to scare me more THG!!  

I'm just hoping you will all be here in my times of need with proper help. I have the theory in my head, but I'm just imagining loads going wrong lol! 

I'm learning not to feed nutes early and not to over feed (or super under feed) and watch the meters like crazy. 

I'm thinking of investing a bunch in one of those "all in one" Hanna meters.. Like $150.. but I like watching people take measurements with them. Just throw all 3 testers in and it reads out everything at once. 

Only thing is, I'll most likely just get the cheap $35 PPM and PH meters to start hah.


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## puffnpaint (Mar 11, 2013)

dude, just relax and keep it simple man. lol i see it comin, you`re gonna be in there with them all the time checkin every ten minutes. i think we probably all do it the first grow or 2.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 11, 2013)

puffnpaint said:
			
		

> dude, just relax and keep it simple man. lol i see it comin, you`re gonna be in there with them all the time checkin every ten minutes. i think we probably all do it the first grow or 2.



You can see it coming from a mile away ROFL

I'm going to try to be good though.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 11, 2013)

hey dont psych your self up man, its important not to overthink, and be doctor, and over nruture your plant. remember its a very hardy plant, a weed, it is not that complicated, its important to read. Read books on plants, how they function, grow, and even root. its not that hard just educate yourself and, read the plant, shell tell you what she needs.Most often a new grower will react to every little change, constantly changing things and adding things. Remember it takes time to see results, learn patience. You dont wanna send it into a tailspin by doing too much too fast, one amendment at a time, and see how it reacts. Just a few pointers! Along the way if youre stumped this site is here to help new growers, achieve success.and share advice. Dont be scared to ask! but remember true success comes from educating yourself on plants and plant functions. How do you know what to give her, if you dont know what she needs?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 11, 2013)

Thanks HighBrixMMJ 

I'm trying really hard to not get worried, and when I first started this thought process I told myself; "Well it's a freaking WEED.. it must grow easy enough" .. then I see lots of nute burn, nute lacking, light too high, light too low... all that in other threads lol. 

I think I have the entire process sorted, .. how long do I go from the humidity dome to a 5gal bucket? I think once roots start to show yes? And then, I  go to the bucket but keep it under veg.. then let it grow, train is with LST / FIM  etc untill a point, then 12 /12 HPS lights. Changing res once a week and watching all levels.. careful not to over adjust (big noob / rookie move) .. And watch them but don't make crazy changes. 

I think I'm getting this. 

Thank you all so much. Curious, does this site accept donations?!


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 11, 2013)

Also don't let all the different adjustables run you crazy. Most of those things are for dialing in the grow for perfection. If you get it going and give it the minimum light, min nutes, and min water, it will most likely still go to the finish and produce smokable bud, But as you get the hang of it and learn what the plants like, you will start adjusting things and dialing it in to go from just completion to growing some really decent bud. 

We do accept donations... But you have to grow them first :hubba:


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 12, 2013)

i dont know the answer to that as I dont use humdity domes for seedlings, nor heat mats. but for my clones i keep it on and mist leaves with water, keep it humid under the dome, til roots start then remove!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 12, 2013)

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> Also don't let all the different adjustables run you crazy. Most of those things are for dialing in the grow for perfection. If you get it going and give it the minimum light, min nutes, and min water, it will most likely still go to the finish and produce smokable bud, But as you get the hang of it and learn what the plants like, you will start adjusting things and dialing it in to go from just completion to growing some really decent bud.
> 
> We do accept donations... But you have to grow them first :hubba:




Thanks for the words! Yeah the adjustables are what are getting my mind the most surely. I just want to find a good feeding regiment. I was going to use GH 3 part system, CaliMagic, and some type of folier spray. Also, how about H2O2? I've seen a lot of people use it, and a lot saying it's not needed. I don't think it's needed, per say, if I'm fully cleaning the res once a week. Curious of opinions. 

Wish the site took donations, because I would gladly donate.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 12, 2013)

HighBrixMMJ said:
			
		

> i dont know the answer to that as I dont use humdity domes for seedlings, nor heat mats. but for my clones i keep it on and mist leaves with water, keep it humid under the dome, til roots start then remove!



Yeah, I'll be taking the dome off once they root and look like they won't get shocked by air. I'll probably open the vents for a couple of days and ease off dome feedings for those couple of days. Yes I'll spray the inside of the dome with water, and maybe some folier spray. I watched a really long video series the other day, and it helped my thoughts out a lot. 



I really learn best through the video tutorials.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 12, 2013)

The nute brand you chose is a popular brand that works so no mistake there. Finding a feeding schedule is not as difficult as it sounds but you really have to find out what the plants like as opposed to a set schedule. I always recommend that when using synthetic nutes(which is anything other than organic) You will want to use the schedule that the manufacturer gives but cut it down to 1/4 of that for starting out. Then when you mix that into your water and let it mix in for a few minutes, then check it with a TDS meter(ppm or EC both check TDS. I like the Bluelab pens) and see what numbers you get. For starting seedlings, I use around 200-300ppm, then each week as I add in or replace nute solution, I raise the ppm by about 150-200ppm by increasing each of the 3 parts some. This will take a little experimentation but you will quickly get the hang of it and if you are off my numbers by some its no problem. Continue to increase each week until you reach around 700-900ppm and hold at that (you could go higher if you want or if you notice that the leaf tips are starting to burn some then back it down to the previous numbers, but typically that is a decent range). 

Once you reach flowering you will start increasing again until you get to the plants' limit. I usually don't go higher than 1200-1300ppm.  Just a little scheduling to get you started


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 12, 2013)

Thanks Hushpuppy, that was all incredibly helpful! 

Question(s): 

Should I get both: 
-Bluelab PPM Pen
-Milwaukee pH55 Waterproof pH Tester  
$116.00 Total

Or should I just get this: 
-GroChek pH & TDS Combo Continuous Reading Meter


> Features
> 
> Displays pH & EC simultaneously
> Adjustable setpoints
> ...



-$135

EC and PPM are kind of "either or" from what I've read. I like the way the all in one works too


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 12, 2013)

if your using a seperate rez, id get the continuous reading one for hydroponics. If your rez is under your plant and its hard to run the electrodes down there id get the pens.  H2O2 is generally only used when the roots start to brown indicitive of root rot. It will kill the bad bacteria and help whiten them badboys up again!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 13, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'll be taking the dome off once they root and look like they won't get shocked by air. I'll probably open the vents for a couple of days and ease off dome feedings for those couple of days. Yes I'll spray the inside of the dome with water, and maybe some folier spray. I watched a really long video series the other day, and it helped my thoughts out a lot.
> 
> 
> 
> I really learn best through the video tutorials.



Remove the dome as soon as the seedlings have poked their head through the cubes.  IMO, a dome keeps it too moist once the seedlings are up and encourages things like damping off.  Do not give seedlings any kind of foliar spray--they do not want or need it.  They will not need any kind of nutrients for a couple of weeks.  When cloning you are going to want to keep the dome on and foliar spray, but not with seedlings.


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## Growdude (Mar 13, 2013)

Here is another good meter/combo, hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/hanna-grochek-combo-phectdstemp-tester-p-437.html

I agree with HighBrix, go pen for buckets, constant monitor for a remote rez.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 13, 2013)

Thanks all! 

Pens will work for me.  

Also, THG: 


> When cloning you are going to want to keep the dome on and foliar spray, but not with seedlings.



Cool beans! Yeah this is where I saw the idea of foliar spray and dome was on clones. I'll take the dome off as soon as seeds peak up through.. thank you so very much


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## WrEkkED (Mar 13, 2013)

I think everyone is right about not over thinking it. I would go in to it expecting that you will make mistakes and not expecting your first grow to be the best. I'm making tonnes of them as we speak on my flowering kush but making changes to avoid them on my seedlings. I think it's inevitable that _something_ will happen. Might be bugs, heat, nutes, ph, space, bad timers etc. all of which I have encountered with this grow.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 13, 2013)

Indeed, thanks for those words WrEkkED. 

I'm going into this, reminding myself that:

1) The biggest amount of money being spent is going towards mostly stuff that will be used for years to come. So I won't be wasting my investment.

2) If I at least make "ok" product, and do it good enough, I can stop paying HIGH prices to sustain myself forever. 

3) Worst case scenario, I buy more seeds or get more clones... and start over. Sure I may waste $50 on some seeds, but at least I can keep on and try again. 

4) I can report ph, ec/ppm, temp, pics, nute regiment etc, all right here where such awesome and helpful members will assist me the best they can. I have free teachers, with massive experience.. 

I just got funds tonight! Now I'm going to make  sure of what I get and where I get it (buying seeds tonight so they hurry up and get here). 

Will chime in later with my seed purchase and other thoughts etc. 


Thanks everyone. (Now open up a donation spot  )


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 13, 2013)

Question before final choice of purchase. Should I get 2ft x 2ft T5 fixture and bulbs, or just a good MH bulb for my first bit? I know we settled on MH to start, but if that's the case, can anyone please point me out a proper MH bulb on plantlightinghydroponics.com? 

This is my current ballast - hood - HPS bulb:
-600W Sylvania HPS Mogul Base Grow Bulb
-CAP LumenAire 6 Inch Air-Cool Grow Light Reflector
-CAP ValuLine 600W SW Ballast


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 13, 2013)

Is that a digital ballast?

I wouldn't go with the 2' bulbs unless I went with the PLL-55 dual tubes.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 13, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Is that a digital ballast?
> 
> I wouldn't go with the 2' bulbs unless I went with the PLL-55 dual tubes.



CAP ValuLine 600W SW Remote Ballast

-You can run either MH or HPS
-CAP BAL.600VL ValuLine Ballasts feature an aluminum magnetic core
-ValuLine cases are powder coated galvanized steel, vented to provide cool operation
-ValuLine ballasts have a vibration dampening system for noise reduction with a separate capacitor compartment for cooler temperatures. USA made capacitor for long life
-All CAP ValuLine Ballasts can be run at 120 or 240 volts; no rewiring is necessary
-All CAP VakuLine Ballasts come with a 120V power cored; optional 240V power cords are available
-600W ValuLine ballast will run either 600W M.H. conversion or H.P.S. bulbs
ValuLine ballasts carry a 5 Year rebuild or replace manufacturers warranty




...and as I'm copying and pasting this info I see something I didn't notice before:  "600W M.H. conversion" 

I think this bulb will work ya? 
hxxp://plantlightinghydroponics.com/hilux-600w-enhanced-spectrum-metal-halide-grow-bulb-p-3138.html


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 13, 2013)

This is a magnetic ballast.  If you get a MH bulb, it must be a MH _*conversion*_ bulb--different than a regular MH bulb.  Digital ballasts will run either (without one having to be a conversion bulb).


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 13, 2013)

> ...and as I'm copying and pasting this info I see something I didn't notice before: "600W M.H. conversion"
> 
> I think this bulb will work ya?
> hxxp://plantlightinghydroponics.com/hilux-600w-enhanced-spectrum-metal-halide-grow-bulb-p-3138.html



Did you catch that last part THG? Or just happen to think it was my signature? Just curious 

Should I try to get a digital ballast? Spend a little more on that area?


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 14, 2013)

yes i would get a digital ballast, but if need be the magnetic will do, you just have to buy a MH conversion bulb, not a regular MH bulb. IMO digital ballasts are better, quieter cooler and usually run both MH and HPS without touching or flipping any switches, also most have dimming features which are nice for starting seedlings at 50% so not to distress them. youll be happier in the long run with digital. magnetics are old technology! your choice tho, i know funds are limited. If it were me id wait save and get what i really want! but everyones different.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 14, 2013)

hxxp://plantlightinghydroponics.com/quantum-600w-dimmable-electronic-ballast-p-3392.html


How is this ballast? Looks quite good to me


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## ShOrTbUs (Mar 14, 2013)

i have that exact ballast. finishing up my second grow with it. working amazingly


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 14, 2013)

Excellent!!! Thanks Shortbus.


You may all get frustrated with what I'm about to say, but I'm truly thinking I'm sure that I'm doing soil for this first grow. I have a lot of reasons, and I'm sure you guys don't want to hear me blab them all on, and I don't want all of you that have given me info to be upset....just a bit unsure of some things with hydro and feeling like I can get away with a bit more on my first grow with soil. 

Either way, my MONEY CAME.. and I'm ordering my seeds right now!  

Still have time to sort out what type of grow I'm doing, but I want to lean back to soil... then my mind thinks of amazing things with hydro.. I just fight with my mind. 


Thanks for letting me have a place to vent  Leave your thoughts after the beep.... 





















.....beep!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 14, 2013)

Most videos I watch(from seed to harvest videos... not just "sectioned tutorials")  are either soil grows  or Ebb and Flo with side rez.... I like that method too but DWC seemed most fun / interesting. So much confusion for me between getting the roots to show in the rooter plugs then.. what? Into 6" bucket net pots right from there? I know someone said 3" pots then to 6" (I think) and I didn't know quite "why" not "how" ... I would love a full seed to harvest video series on DWC. 

(Note: If you're upset with my "on the fence" about growing and me going back and forth, then kindly step away from the thread and I understand and respect that. I want nothing but positivity in here while I'm learning. Just keep any replies productive and helpful please.)


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 14, 2013)

I am partial to the electronic dimmable ballasts.  So....should you buy a digital?  Probably.  Let's get back to the dollars and cents (sense).  You can get a 600W dimmable ballast with an air coolable hood, a MH *and* a HPS bulb, a timer, and ratchet rope hangers from Amazon for $225.  What is your price tag on the set up you are looking at?  The bulb you linked is $80.  How much when we add a conversion bulb?  Digital ballasts are also supposed to use slightly less power.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 14, 2013)

Yay, THG is around the thread!!!  

Current setup from 1 place: 

1 x 	GH CALiMAGic Qt
1 x 	Quantum 600W Dimmable Electronic Ballast
1 x 	Aluminum 3-Ply Air Duct 6 inch x 25F
1 x 	Active Air 6" 400 CFM In-line Duct Fan
1 x 	600W Sylvania HPS Mogul Base Grow Bulb
1 x 	GH1514 pH Control Kit
1 x 	Rapid Rooter Organic Plugs 50/bag
1 x 	Propagation Tray Seed Cell 10x20
1 x 	Sun Hut Silver 4x4x7 Indoor Greenhouse
1 x 	Propagation Tray no Holes 10x20
1 x 	Bluelab PPM Pen
1 x 	Milwaukee pH55 Waterproof pH Tester
1 x 	Active Air Hygro-Thermometer
1 x 	Titan Controls Apollo 8&#8482; Two Outlet 24 Hour Timer
1 x 	ProGrip 150LB Light Hanger Pair
1 x 	Floragro Vegetative Growth Nutrient Quart
1 x 	FloraBloom Flower & Fruit Nutrient Quart
1 x 	FloraMicro Micro-Nutrients Quart
1 x 	Propagation Dome 10x20x6 Snug Fit
1 x 	Eye 400W 6500K Full Spectrum Horizontal Metal Halide Bulb
1 x 	Quantum Massive 6" Reflectors
1 x 	Phat 20x6 450 CFM Carbon Filter

Sub-Total:	$954.23
United Parcel Service (Ground):	$138.26
Total:	$1,092.49


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 14, 2013)

It looks like you have your bases covered other than pots and growing medium.  If you are more comfortable with soil, then that is what you should do.  I don't think that anyone here will be upset that you have changed your mind.  We all want you to have successful grows.  Part of that is being comfortable with what you are doing.

Have you decided what seeds you are going to order?  What kind of high you want out of your bud?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 14, 2013)

Thanks THG, you are excellent!  

I just didn't want the ones that have given so much info in this LONG thread, to get mad that I'm all: "Hydro! ... wait Soil! ... wait.. SURELY HYDRO.. no no .. soil?" 
I know I would be a bit frustrated  

As for my seeds, I've had them picked out for forever!  

Barneys Farm "Pineapple Chunk" from Attitude (I'm purchasing today, was just waiting for their freebies to change up for the day.. last I noticed the freebies change every single day) 

I'm all for a super skunk smell and earthy/skunky taste and pure Indicas are my favorite. All for the body and less for the mind. 

The freebies right now are: 
-CH9 Female Seeds Blue Lemon Thai
-CH9 Female Seeds Cluster

Didn't care for the description of them or the makeup's. The other day "Cheese" was a freebie... I love Cheese!! :/


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 14, 2013)

Woo.. pulled the trigger on the seeds, because hey.. freebies are freebies. :shrug: 

But WOO.. $60 was the total after everything. YIKES. I should probably clones these! lol


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 14, 2013)

Hey man, don't worry about upsetting anyone. We have all gone through the indecision when trying to get set up the right way. Hydro can be a little daunting when looking at it from the outside. But like THG said, you have to be comfortable with what you're doing. We won't be the ones working with your setup, you will, so ultimately its your call. There are plenty of peeps on here that grow in soil, both organicly and synthetically, so you won't be alone in that venture either.

I noticed in your list of setup stuff that you have listed an "in-line duct fan", is that one of the duct booster fans or is it a centrifugal fan? The "duct booster fans" are worse than worthless. They will mess up your grow because they give you a false sense of ventilation security, and you don't realize that they aren't venting properly until its too late. Make sure you get a centrifugal style fan as they are reliable and properly move the air.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 14, 2013)

deinately clone, but grow a few from start to finish and take clones along the way, label these clones in relation to which mother they came from(mother 1, clone 1, mother two, clone two), after you grow, dry, cure, and smoke them, decide which one you like the best, this will be your special clone mother from now on. there are usually a few different phenos from each strain. some show more sativa traits, while other show more indica traits. This method helps you to make sure you get what you were looking for every time! now take all future clones from this plant, btw you might as well flower out all those other clones from the  other moms too, i wouldnt throw em away! or you could just pop one seed and you get what you get! just remember if youre looking for indica traits, you might end up with sativa traits with this method!


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## Growdude (Mar 14, 2013)

Many here like there electronic ballasts, but you will also find many threads about dead ballasts and they are all electronic.

A good copper core ballast cant be beat in terms of long life and reliability.
There also switchable between MPS and MH.

I have this one , its cool and quiet as a kitten.
hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/xtrasun-bac100a-1000w-mh-hps-convertible-ballast-p-2119.html


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 14, 2013)

Thats true growdude but you should get a 3 year warranty with any decent ballast, if it goes out after that ill have harvested enough that i wont feel bad buying a new one! JMO


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 15, 2013)

Thanks for all the words everyone! I'm sorting thoughts and weighing options.. loving the feedback and content provided!  

@ Hushpuppy: The fan is one of the kind I've seen that works with the 6"ducting and is a squirrel cage fan or whatever they are called. It's the exact same thing I've seen in a lot of grow setups (through video). Here's a pic of the one that I believe I'm getting: 

hxxp://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/images/HF-inlinefan.L.gif


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 15, 2013)

Cool, that's the type that you want. They call them squirrel cage or centrifugal type. Those work better than anything else because they create a vacuume(or negative pressure) on the low side and pressure on the high side. If you couple them with a fan speed controller you can nearly make them silent while still pulling out air through a carbon filter


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 15, 2013)

Nice, I was correct when I said "Squirrel Cage" just before your post, woo hoo!!  
And yeah, I want a fan control surely.. I took note of that. Cheers Hushpuppy!! 


*UPDATE* 
I'm going to a hydro store about an hour away today.. going to see if they will make a deal.. I printed out my order from plant lighting hydroponics.com and I'm bringing it with me. If they want to make $1,000+ sale today, they will work with me. And if they do make the deal today, then... I'LL HAVE MY ROOM TONIGHT!!!!!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 15, 2013)

I now have everything to get me from seed to harvest! Everything! I even have cloning gel to help with going beyond my first grow! Bwahaha!  

I'll make a list of what I got from memory:

-6" Yield Labs Reflector Hood
-Ultra Sun 600w HPS and also Ultra Sun 400w MH 
-Quantum 600w Digital Ballast 
-Sun Hut 4x4 tent (had none, so sold me a year old floor model. Got a great deal! Just have to clean it out)
-6" Hurricane Squirrel Cage fan with ducting and Phat Carbon Filter
-Fan Speed Adjuster 
-Titan Apollo 8 Two Outlet Timer
-50 pack Rooter thingies 
-Prop tray and ventable dome
-PH and PPM pens... not the sweet waterproof ones, but the $40 Hanna ones. I'll get the all in one later when I deal with full water operation. 
-PH UP + Down 
-Indoor/Outdoor Digital Thermometer
-Sun Grip Light Hangers
-3 gal grow bags x25
-Sunshine Mix Rain Forest
-Clonex (or however the spelling is) 
-Nutes... So he talked me out of Flora nutes, and into something a slight bit cheaper that he thinks works just as good. ~XNutrients~ Anyone have any experience with this stuff or thoughts? I thought it was fine... :shrug: 

Overall, I got a KILLER deal. I beat my price from Plantlighting Hydroponics.com by a few bucks and got WAY more items. This guy just wanted my business and knew if he helped me with this first initial sale I'd be coming  back. I mean.. I have to! lol .. he's 1 of 2 hydro stores in my state! He was awesome to deal with and knew what I was planning on using the tent for, hah. 

$1,060 for everything. I don't know if I left anything out of that list, but if I did, I'll come back and edit it. 

So, .. Pineapple Chunk from Attitude is on the way, and ENTIRE room is purchased. Now I have to dial it in and get set. I am SO excited everyone... WOO!!! 

 Grow journal will start soon. I'm going to take many pics and some videos to try and really capture the moments and processes. Hope you all tag alone.

~~ALSO~~
Quick question: I have my most of my entire grow out in the garage where it will get to freezing temps tonight... I brought in my HPS and MH bulbs, my Rooter Plugs and the 4 bottles of nutes. The rest should be good ya? I'll let the Ballast get to room temp before I fire the whole thing up.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 16, 2013)

Alright :woohoo:  I think you are nearly set  I don't know if I said it but you will like the pineapple Chunk. I have that one and it is a really good smoke. Very easy to grow and clone. She gets leggy though and will turn into a tree on you if you aint carefull. I do lots-O-training and don't let them get too tall before flipping the lights as they will easily double in size while in flower. I think it would be a good plant for scrog but has to be done under some heavy fence material to hold her down.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 16, 2013)

Yeah, thanks so much for that Hushpuppy!!  

I will be getting chicken wire I think OR even hay bailing twine for my scrog. I watched a lot of super cropping vids, and FIM / topping vids...and a few on Scrog. I'm going to attempt all this my first grow.. wish me luck!!! hahaha 

Also, can anyone chime in about the Xnutrients? And how about cleaning a tent? The tent I bought was his showroom one and quite dirty. I believe just normal dish soap and water, then flush then hang to dry?


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 16, 2013)

I would use some bleach and water. you wanna kill any bacteria or mold he might have had before id put anything in that tent!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 16, 2013)

Yes! Bleach and water for sure! As best possible.. it was in great shape but very dirty (in my opinion) .. worth the deal I got though!!


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 16, 2013)

its important to keep your growroom hospital clean. less pests and diseases!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 16, 2013)

Good thing I'm self employed and my job is cleaning  hah


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## BrascoBuds (Mar 16, 2013)

How does she look?


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 16, 2013)

looks a little stretched to me. what strain? unless its a pure sativa it needs more light or somethin. internode spacing too long!


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## BrascoBuds (Mar 16, 2013)

Its from a random bag seed so I'm not sure of its origin. If I had to guess, I would say its a Sativa dominant hybrid. Its my learning experiment for my first grow.  Have two Bubblegum plants two weeks into Veg in a separate grow box. I agree with your assessment of the plant though. Thank you.


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## BrascoBuds (Mar 16, 2013)

Do the bud sites look about right for being two weeks into flower? Its got lots of white pistols but so far that's all.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 16, 2013)

For being only 2 weeks into flower and already having decent bud growth, I'd say she looks real good. She is definitely stretched from light shortage. These kids need boat-loads of light. What kind of lighting do you have over it? Other than the stretched look, she looks healthy.


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## BrascoBuds (Mar 16, 2013)

I'm using 6 cfl bulbs 23 watt each at 2700k for just one plant. Shouldn't that be sufficient?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 16, 2013)

BrascoBuds said:
			
		

> I'm using 6 cfl bulbs 23 watt each at 2700k for just one plant. Shouldn't that be sufficient?



Unfortunately, no.  We wish we could grow great bud with just a few CFLs, but we can't.  The number of plants you have doesn't determine your lighting needs.  What matters is how big your space is and how many lumens you have.  You need a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft for flowering--and many of us run a lot more.  Your bulbs are probably running around 1500 lumens, so that is 9000 lumens.  Your space looks like it is about 2 x 2?  A space that size would need 13-14 23W CFLs.  CFLs also do not have the penetration (throw light as far) as other types of lighting we use, so taller plants suffer more.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 16, 2013)

THG .. to get back on topic in my thread, what do you think of the list and my last questions? 

Also, wow! My seeds are already in Jamaica New York! So close to me already!! That was only a few days.


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## BrascoBuds (Mar 16, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, no.  We wish we could grow great bud with just a few CFLs, but we can't.  The number of plants you have doesn't determine your lighting needs.  What matters is how big your space is and how many lumens you have.  You need a minimum of 5000 lumens per sq ft for flowering--and many of us run a lot more.  Your bulbs are probably running around 1500 lumens, so that is 9000 lumens.  Your space looks like it is about 2 x 2?  A space that size would need 13-14 23W CFLs.  CFLs also do not have the penetration (throw light as far) as other types of lighting we use, so taller plants suffer more.



Wow! The box I have it in is actually 18x18x36" so it seems I'm extremely under-lighting it. In your opinion, what kind of problems/issues can I expect if I were to continue with my current setup straight through to harvest? Less final yield? Potency?

Also, my bubble gum plants that are predominantly indica are not exhibiting the stretching of my unknown plant. They are very full and bushy. Are you pretty sure the reason could not stem at least mostly from genetics? Like the plant being predominantly Sativa.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 17, 2013)

BrascoBuds, could you please kindly make a separate thread with these questions instead of hi-jacking my thread for your own personal use?  Thank you


Back on topic...

Xnutrients.. anyone have experience with them? (Please THG and others read a few of my posts back ...before the thread hi-jacking)


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## Growdude (Mar 17, 2013)

EllisD said:
			
		

> BrascoBuds, could you please kindly make a separate thread with these questions instead of hi-jacking my thread for your own personal use?  Thank you
> 
> 
> Back on topic...
> ...


 
Ive never used them but I did check out the site, they seem ok and im sure they will work.

Did you get all 3 grow,bloom and micro?


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## BrascoBuds (Mar 17, 2013)

Sorry dude, I'm new here and didn't realize what I did. That was my last question for now anyway. I'll start my own thread as soon as I can figure out how. Thanks for the info and opinions those of you who answered my questions. Happy growing!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 17, 2013)

It's alright mostly Brasco.. that's just a big "forum thing" to not hi-jack a persons thread.  Now you know, and that's excellent. 

If you go to the top and click the sites banner, it will show you all the forums. From there you can click a forum you want (let's say: "General Indoor Growing") And then, in the top left area you'll see a green button that says "New Thread." Click that and you're well on your way.


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## BrascoBuds (Mar 17, 2013)

Thank you Ellis!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 17, 2013)

Growdude said:
			
		

> Ive never used them but I did check out the site, they seem ok and im sure they will work.
> 
> Did you get all 3 grow,bloom and micro?



Oh sorry Growdude, I missed this. I got Grow, Bloom, Micro and Amino Blast


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 17, 2013)

Seeds processed and are now in my state! Woo hoo.. either tomorrow or the next day! Damn, I don't have my room clean and dialed in yet!! I thought it would be like 2 weeks before the seeds got here.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 18, 2013)

Don't let yourself get in a hurry from being excited. I think just about everyone of us have done that(got the beans and started growing before we were really ready) and regretted doing it. When you get your beans, look at them then put them away until your setup is ready. Once you pop them, you will have a minimum of 12 weeks until harvest, so no need to hurry.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 18, 2013)

Oh indeed Hushpuppy, I fully intend on being 100% mentally prepared and physically setup and dialed in before I even germinate. I will be putting them away for a solid week or two, since I still need to clean up the area the tent is going, setup and clean (massively) the inside of tent and dial everything in. 

Still hoping someone will chime in about my nutes and other questions in the last few posts


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 18, 2013)

Sorry I can't help with the Xnutes as I have no experience with them. For cleaning up my tents, I use chlorox wipes from the grocery store. I would set the tent up in position before cleaning, just for ease of doing the work.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 18, 2013)

Absolutely I'll be setting it up to clean it. I did a sanding of some of the poles and spray painted semi-gloss white, a couple of days ago. I bought the tent used, and tho it was in good shape overall, some of the poles had a good amount of rust. Nothing a good sand and paint didn't  fix  

We're about to get 12" - 16" of snow tonight and tomorrow. After this all finishes up, I think my tent  will be good to go in a week or 2. Heck, may even work on cleaning a bit tomorrow while I'm snowed in.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 18, 2013)

I also have never used those nutes.  Any reason you are not going with GH Flora series?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 18, 2013)

He recommended this series to me at the last minute, and my daughter was going wild in the store at the time (2 1/2 year old) and my wife was giving me the stink eye, so I agreed with him and went with it. He said .... I can't remember, bah, I'm failing right now  

I was just about to purchase Dutch Masters, and he said "You know what? Why don't you go with this?" and handed it over mentioning it was "under rated but good stuff" 

He hadn't steered me wrong the entire visit, so with all the factors looking at me, I just agreed. 

I've looked around a little bit and it seems there's people that say "that's cheap nutes, don't use" and have never used them... and there's people saying they are quite good, just weak. No reason not to use them specifically...


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 18, 2013)

They came today!!


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 18, 2013)

Try'em out and see how they do. That is what I did with the nute brand that I currently use and have great success with it


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 20, 2013)

Another quick question.. when I do the flip to 12/12  ... do I start it with 12 hours of darkness then 12 hours of light, or screw the HPS bulb right in and start with 12 hours of light?


After writing that all out, I think I answered my own question. Start with 12 hours of darkness, come back 12 hours later (after MH bulb has cooled down lol) and change out MH for HPS bulb.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 20, 2013)

Set up tent tonight and used bleach and water to fully clean it. Setting up the rest (lights etc) tomorrow and also.... *cough*.. investing in some Hydro setup since I have another few hundred extra dollars to spend. "OH... curve ball, he changed his friggin' mind again.. didn't see that one coming!" :facepalm: 

I'm pretty sure I'm going to do the method where you have a Rez and then a tube that pumps it up into a table .. raises a certain level, then flows back down into the rez. This isn't Ebb and Flo is it? I'm not (I don't think) doing drip nozzles. 

Also, about setting up my carbon filter... I have a 4x4 tent, what would be the best way to set this up? It's in an insulated livable space above my garage. I was thinking just passively pull air from the bottom, then 6" air ducts out from the light and down to squirrel cage fan and Carbon filter, outside of the tent on the floor? 

Thanks all for helping through this journey! Tomorrow I will have everything finished, installed and ready to veg.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 20, 2013)

yep, thats how you do it. good luck friend!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 21, 2013)

HighBrixMMJ said:
			
		

> yep, thats how you do it. good luck friend!



Thanks HighBrix!!!  

You all have been amazing this entire time, and (this will be the last time I say this) this site deserves a donation e-mail setup for it. Nothing special, just an admin setting up a g-mail account that can receive my paypal money!  

This site means a lot to me, and I feel you're all personable. 

I will be starting my Grow Journal today I believe. I will have the table and all hydroponics setup by tonight, along with the light, ventilation, thermo, everything. I will also GERM tonight!   

Who's excited? THIS GUY! hahaha  

It looks like (in a few videos I saw) people use more than 4 plants with this method in a 4x4.. or is it just me? Would be nice to do all 5 PC just to get the one strain out and growing. I'm thinking of germing all 5 anyways, incase I have issues along the way. Not sure if I'm going to entirely scrog or just use a veggie net and use some tie downs. I'd like to scrog.. all that is still up in the air. If I DO scrog I'll be using only 4 for sure!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 21, 2013)

It is an incredibly fun and addictive hobby.  I would start all five seeds.  Sometimes they don't all germinate or you lose one along the way.  I have not run ebb and flow tables, so I cannot advise you on number of plants or anything.  

You will have a little while until you have to decide how you want to grow.  Even with a scrog, you should be fine with 5 plants.

Green mojo for your first grow.  It is so satisfying to grow your own.


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## HighBrixMMJ (Mar 22, 2013)

on my first grow I popped all my beans, and being a noob I only germ'd 3 outta ten, then had one female outta the three and i killed her, then I was left with no beans! and no plants. I was out over $100.  I swore from then on id only pop beans half and half, if i had five id only do 3 to start incase something goes wrong, youll at least still have two to try again. Dont wanna discourage ya, but hey, were human...need I say more!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 22, 2013)

Good stuff.. just if my 5 PC don't work out, I can pop my 2 freebies till a new order comes in. Also, where did you get those first seeds and how badly did you nuke them? lol 


*UPDATE* 

Over $1,800 into the system now. You guys won't believe how much amazing stuff I have!!!! I have all supplemental nutes and various things like Neem Oil, BloomBastic, H202 and various stuff that's just good to have. I have a 3.5 x 3.5 Black Duralastic Ebb and Flo table with 18 gal (filling to 15 gal) res. I even got a $135 CO2 bucket... this actually looks legit for a 4x4 tent and one grow. After this, I'm going to get a tank etc because I can get re-filled just 3 minutes down the street easily. I built a 1 1/4 inch PVC pipe frame and legs to hold the ebb/flo table (that was actually fun to build!) 

I'll have an in depth update of what I'm running and what I purchased in my first entire of my grow journal that I HOPE to start... TODAY!!!!  I should be germing sometime, after I get my room fully dialed in. 

I need to purchase another HPS bulb and some more seeds just "because"... to have them in stock for any various reasons. 

I feel like I'm doing things extremely proper, and I feel decently confident in everything. This is surely fun! 


Thanks all for being there.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 22, 2013)

It gets better my friend, when you see those plants growing, then when you see the first buds, then when they start really swelling towards the end and you are dieing to try some, and then when you harvest and take that first taste of your own bud that you grew. :icon_smile: At that point you will be hopelessly addicted to growing your own. You will have some aggrivating and frustrating moments but its worth it in my opinion 

A word of warning; on that PVC table, water is very heavy(like 7-9lbs per gallon depending on whats in it). Make sure the PVC is sturdy as some of it is not made to be structurely strong. I only use whats called "schedule 40" for structure building and if I need something really strong then I go to "schedule 80". If your pipe is thin-walled and doesn't say "schedule 40" on the side of it, then it may be too weak to hold up well. I'd hate to see you get 6-7weeks into flower and all the weight bring it down and damage the plants.
I hate to be a buzz kill here but a crash would be worse.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 22, 2013)

> At that point you will be hopelessly addicted to growing your own



Already am so if it gets better, which it seems so, WOOOO yeah!!!!  

As for the weight.. I got it at Lowes it's construction grade and VERY robust. I can put both hands on my table and lean my entire weight on it... I'm 6' 3"  and 260 pounds. I would trust my daughter to jump up and down on it and I would even sit in it without worry. 

Thanks for the warning surely.. I'll have pics up today!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 22, 2013)

Also go easy with the additives.  Start out with the basics and then add the additives after you are comfortable with the basics. 

It is very easy to kill seeds and seedlings.  So be careful.  Do not believe that just because you bought good genetics that it makes the seeds stronger or more viable.

I would take the $135 bucket of CO2 back and use that money towards a legitimate CO2 setup.  For CO2 to be effective, you need to do more things than just let CO2 escape into your room--you need it to be controllable and you need a way to monitor it.  You need enhanced lumens and your exhaust needs to be coordinated with CO2 enrichment. There truly is no cheap "legit" CO2 enhancement thing out there.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 22, 2013)

Well, it has an electric thing that disperses it when timed.. I'm putting that on another timer and was going to vent my tent slightly differently. I figured having this was better than not having it. Also, my mother (oddly enough supports all this) bought me the bucket because I mentioned I wanted to get CO2 in there. I think it's going to be better than nothing, and I FULLY intend on getting a tank and attachment later on. .... plus.. I've already opened it to check it out.. I didn't "start" the bucket yet, but I have everything out because I wanted to check it out. 

I'm going to use it either way, and get a tank for the next grow. I know I know... buckets were frowned on, but this one with the electronics on it and being timed and a bit more controlled with hosing going around it from the bucket, seemed better than other co2 bags or other buckets I had seen. It doesn't just sit there, it has a thingie on it that's electronic that I can help regulate it with. 

With that said, I'm sure you're smiling right now and nodding your head saying "mmmhmmm, here's another one going off and doing what he shouldn't" and I understand and accept that. hah  I dig ya THG, always looking out for me. 

So much help around here, it's just great. 

*UPDATE*

I have the holes all done in both the ebb and flo table and the res. When my wife gets home and I don't have to constantly look after my 2 1/2 year old, I'm going to head up into the room and get 'er all setup!  I almost want to germ my seeds, but I wanted to fully wait until the room was ready and I had at least run it for an hour.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 22, 2013)

Oh and yeah I understand about the nute and supplemental nute thing you've mentioned. I mostly have it all because from grows I've seen in the last 2+ months, these things all seem to come into effect at some point. Sure I may not even need to use my Neem Oil for a grow or 2 .. but it's just great to have. And BloomBastic is sworn by, by many it seems, so I snagged that too. 

I just wanted to be prepared, and I'll make you all proud surely... by not dumping 500ML's of everything in all at once.  hah


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