# Espoma Organic plant food



## The Poet

Greetings again,


    I found an organic vegetable food, 'Espoma'. It has all the things one adds to a soil mixture including 3 different sources of nitrogen, plus phosphorus and potash. Calcium, magnesium, feather meal, poultry manure, bone meal, alfalfa meal and 3 types of little Bacullus creatures. I read about it on a grow forum but can't remember where.

   The 'Espoma Organic plant food' sounds like a perfect plant food; the only thing I would add is... wait a minute! I imagine the Espoma is balanced in it's nutrient composition so why mess with it? I have added it to my 3 gallon pots of Scott's potting soil. 

   Now my question is about using this mix for weed. I have used Canna-coco and its great but for the price. I was going to get some Canna-terra nutes and still may but this Espoma says it is sufficient for plant growth and if it is then alright! I have had more problems with over feeding rather than under feeding but is Scott's enough? Organics are about feeding the dirt and not the plants and as I said all my experience with gardening has been out back in the dirt and under the sun. This stuff {Espoma} is not a chemical fertilizer but organic. I may have even mixed in a little too much Espoma in my soil already. 
Should I experiment and try a crop with only the Espoma? 
Should I add Canna nutes in reduced amounts? 
Or... since Espoma needs to be replenished every crop and it recommends giving a spoon full during growth; should I give my plants Canna nutes during flowering only/mainly?

What would y'all experts do? 


                               Thank you...


                                        The Poet


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## Rosebud

I am really liking the Espoma organic plant food with Mychorrazie... I use a cup in the bottom of my bags and the rest has happy frog. It is wonderful stuff. My veg girls have never looked so happy. I needed no other feed till I flipped and then I start adding the P and K.  Hope that helps.


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## ShOrTbUs

i like to support my local garden center, and espoma is what they carry as far as amendments go. so thats what i use. if you plan on feeding with synthetic liquid nutrients, then there is no reason for you to buy any dry soil amendments like vegetable food.

did you mix the the veg food globally with the soil?
if so how much?
did you give it time to "cook" first?
if not, then depending on how much you added you will have to wait anywhere from 4-6 weeks from seed to be able to transplant, and put that soil to use. otherwise you will burn up those babies very quickly.

also, which scotts potting soil are you using? if it's not an organic potting soil, then your going to have a lot of trouble trying to build up a strong food web for your soil.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Shortbus beat me to it--if you are using organic nutes, you need to start with organic soil.  None of that pre-nuted stuff.

I am getting ready to put some seeds into dirt for my annual summer organic grow.  I love hydro, but the summers get so hot it is hard to keep the res cool enough.  So, I run soil and organic for the summer.  It works well as my veggy garden is organic also.

Good luck.  I think you will like organic.  I have not tried Espoma's organic plant food, but I like their other products that I use.  I will check it out.


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## The Poet

Y'all,


     I have decided to get a couple of bags of Happy Frog and re-pot the plants. I know from experience that chemical nutes do not mix well with Organics and am still learning so I will dump the Scotts with Espoma in my flower beds. The weed is more important and will live in Happy Frog. 
   Now the decision is weather to depend on Espoma or Canna terra for fertilizer. Canna products being made especially for weed sound good but for the price. I am trying to be organic {and cheap}
    Remember with coco one waters every day but with soil every 2-3 days so I can save 66% on fertilizer by using soil so Canna products may not be all that expensive. Sounds like I have decided to use Frog and Canna Terra.
   What do y'all use?


                                Thank you...


                                       The Poet


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## nouvellechef

I have used several Epsoma products in the past in dirt mixing. Worked great.


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## Rosebud

Mix a little of the epsoma in the bottom of the pot with Happy frog on top. Mix the two a little then top off with the happy frog.  I used 1/2-1 cup in the bottom of my veging bags.  Then i will flip to flower and use nutrients for that.


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## The Poet

Rosebud,


     Do you veg with the 'Espoma' {or something like that} entirely?

      I am really excited in that using organics is bringing my costs way down. 
   1. I can save 66% on Canna nutes by using soil rather than coco and watering 2-3 times a week rather than every day.
   2. If 'Espoma organic plant food', {a handy and balanced mixture of organic food} is acceptable for vegging then I can save another 50% on top of that!
   Happy Frog with Espoma is balanced plant food and should grow weed in its vegetative state but then again I don't know what I am doing; it sounds good but what is wrong with this idea? 

   Specifically y'all think Espoma would do as a vegetative food. I mean more isn't better in fact like light: A pant can absorb what? It needs at least 50 lumins per sq ft, up to about 90 but no more. More light is wasted besides making it too hot. Then how much food does weed like? I know they don't like to be over fed and they don't like their 'feet wet' but how much food is too little/much?
    What are the lower and upper limits of a weed plants 'favorite' food intake?


                               Thank you...


                                          The Poet


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## Rosebud

Poet, no one can tell you that exactly. It takes a few grows to recognize when your girls are getting hungry. MORE FOOD is NOT Better.
I use happy frog and espoma for veg. it is plenty enough of food. No added necessary,

Then when you get to flower they will need flowering nutes. 
Am i repeating myself? I think so...


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## The Poet

Rosebud,


     Thank you 'I understand'. 
Remember I'm from Texas but 'I got it now'.
Yes one can veg in frog with a little Espoma then flower with Canna-Boost and the likes. 
It is clear to me now and thank you again; your very helpful.


                                      The Poet


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## Rosebud

enjoy your grow Poet, this is more fun then it should be!!! Be careful in Texas....
Glad you are here Poet, ask away if you need anything.  that is what we are here for.


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## zipflip

alright!!! a topic/discussion I want in on. 
 "ESPOMA"   been usin the stuff for years myself as well. tried many different tones in different combinations wit added guanos etc etc basically toyin round wit as much as I could over the years til I found the best combo but yet be the simplest. least amount of amending or addin supps or wat have ya later on.
1cubic foot of organic peat based potting mix
8quarts of perlite
6cups vermiculite 
1cup flower tone
1cup tomato tone
3/8 to 1/2 cup GRD rock dust
3/8 to 1/2 cup azomite
 1/2 cup lime

and that's it. since I knocked down the perlite in my mix form 10-12 quarts per cu ft of soil and added vermiculite to my mix its reduced my waterings  substantially when veggin for 2 months and flowering in 3gallon pots. I will water on average once every 11-14 days vs every 5-7days when growin wit bottle ferts.  
  at time of last transplant before flowering I will throw in 3-4tbsp's high P bat guano 
 but for veg its pretty much same mix only I use half the biotone starter plus and 1/2 flower or tomato tone
  I will however add a small shot of various organic based bottle supplements for some added perk tho like floralicious and  some sweeteeners bud candy etc..  but at 7 weeks I go strait RO water no calmag or nothing and they do fine all the way to the end without cal mag def even . surprising as usin RO water without any added calmag sup .

  but now I have a question for all u espoma heads alike. any you ever notice a distinct taste that carries over into the end product that's common among the lants so I can only contribute to the mix , but what I get is a salty like taste. some strains will be worse. even had one one time that tasted like I was smoking a dam pretzel even.  
 im guessin its the chicken crap thowin off taste, maybe im usin too much espoma and should just pick up slack wit added bottle feedings vs tryin to make my mix hot nuff to support em solely on its own..  ?  idk maybe its just me or something else but jus curious if ya'll get a common taste in a lot of different strains like I do when flowering wit espoma tones... ?  
 I have mixed at lower rates than listed but only to find plant gets hungry toward end when should be still feasting fine so tahs why I kept at 2 cups per bag soil mix.  
  but like th eoriginal poster I too and curious of the happy frog mixes as well. they don't have that insane chickn crap smell to em at the very least which is a plus . got a bag of each the jump start the fruit and flower and the bulb food. 
 the bulb food blend says for long season flowering plants like bulbs and im guessin its ingredients are more lined up to be more slower release than the other blends, meaning if one were to flower out mj for 8 weeks then all that 8-8 of P & K may not be there readily avail all in time to use it all. or am I thinkin at it wrong. 
 and with the fruit and flower blen with a 5-8-4. im not really liking the N in the 5 range and being higher than K tho.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I have only grown organically a few seasons, but I have not noticed a salty taste with my bud.  

For those that don't know, perlite and vermiculite are not the same and not interchangeable.  Perlite is added to break up dense soil and to help keep the soil aerated and help it drain well.  Vermiculite holds water, which is why if you cut down on the perlite and add more vermiculite you water less.

Zip, I don't see where your recipe has any Bio-Tone starter plus?  Why both Flower Tone and Tomato Tone?  Does this need to cook?


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## zipflip

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I have only grown organically a few seasons, but I have not noticed a salty taste with my bud.
> 
> For those that don't know, perlite and vermiculite are not the same and not interchangeable. Perlite is added to break up dense soil and to help keep the soil aerated and help it drain well. Vermiculite holds water, which is why if you cut down on the perlite and add more vermiculite you water less.
> 
> Zip, I don't see where your recipe has any Bio-Tone starter plus? Why both Flower Tone and Tomato Tone? Does this need to cook?


 I let mine cook if that's what wanna call it I guess. usually mix it up a month in advance and wet and let set til using.

 the bio-tone starter plus 4-3-3 is wahat I use for early veg to start off newly rooted clones or seedlings being potted up for they first time. I use it at rate of anywhere from 1.5-2cups per cubic ft bag soil.
  I knew the diff between the perlite and vermiculite. , that was why I minused a lil bit a perlite and added vermiculite was to do as u described . got sick of watering so much. once a week aint bad, its just that when ur growin multiple strains and one to two plants of each and all need it at diff times and diff goodies per etc..  basically also why I chose an organic mix to simplify things rather than havin to dial in individual plants every grow I did.  

  have u used the espoma then too, THG? or u usin a totally diff organic mix of sorts? what the application rate u use if usin espoma or whatever. 
 im thinkin I need to play a lil more wit the espoma dosages more sometime maybe.

  why both flower tone and tomato tone...?  well maybe its all in my head idk but lookin back when I first tried the flower tone alone I would lack in calcium and potassium mainly, towards the last half of flowering and when I used the tomato tone alone I got extreme growth which wouldn't have been bad thing if I had more head room for thme to grow taller or even at leats more width to either lst more or even a scrog. but the tomato tone solved my calcium issues as it has more calcium and more potassium than the flower tone. and for some reason even tho the "P" levels in either the flower tone or tomato tone are same I still seemed to get a better phosphurour supply it seemed more avauil to the plants when usin it so one day I decided to do half an half and it went smooth without a hitch. only thing im tryin to work out is the dang salty flavor taste to end product is all.  
  also wondered botu the calmag supplement I use with my RO water. I used to use botanicare calmag but no matter wat I did I just had absolute problems wit their calmag for some reason a while back and I trid the calimagic and problems went away. problems wit botanicares calmag was PPM and dosages not addin up like  the concentration was never the same bottle to bottle. and I did notice the calimagic used calcim carbonate vs calcium nitrate as in botanicares calmag. no idea if the cal carbonate leaves any negatiuve effect on taste personally tho.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I don't think that Botanicare Cal-Mag is organic--that could have been part of the problem.

I have a lot of Espoma products, but I haven't used much of their "Tone" line.  I have always added Bio-Tone and Plant-Tone to my supersoil, but that is the extent of that.  I use their lime, bone meal, blood meal, and phosphate rock, too--all ingredients in the supersoil.

I figured that you knew the difference between perlite and vermiculite, but a lot of newer gardeners believe they are interchangeable and they are not.  I think it helps to remember things if you know the reason, so I just explained why.


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## nouvellechef

I didn't notice a taste per say. I always did notice the burn quality was better using a organic dirt mix.


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## zipflip

yeah idk if its even the espoma for certain causin the taste deal that seems a cry off to me.  I jsu know wat I use and what ive changed since started noticing that salty taste in the end. only 2 things I can really say I feel that would be causin the salty taste is that maybe im usin toobig a pots for last transplant and therefore as stong as I make my mix maybe just not nuff time  to use up wats all in the mix cby time flowerings ended therefore still suckin up the goodness, vs usin a smaller pot wit the same mix itd maybe have nuff time  to use all if not most of the goodness in the soil. but the only two things I can honestly think of that have changed since noticed that salty taste were that I switched to usin espoma and swqitched from botanicares calmag to GH's calimagic. either way tho ive had better results form the way the girls look since switchin to GH calimagic  vs usin boatnicareCM.  no idea why, it just works better for my mix and i


wat do you espoma users use. like how much espoma u all add per cubic foot bag of soil and what tone per stage of growth?, or do u all add to the individual pots at time of transplant or simply topdress here n there?  I mix in big totes and let cook for month minimum otherwise I have issues prolly PH or something whenever ive mixed soil up and used it within few days vs letting cook for while. but they'll usually bounce out of the funk after week or so but still don't like it so definatley I let it cook a bit.
 the rate I use  is basically whatever tone I choose to use per stage of growth I use same rate for all at average 2Cups per cubic foot bag of soil mixed wit added perlite etc..   some strains ive done can and do handle more on up to 2.5cups total espoma per bag of soil, and some ive grown 1.5 cupsespoma per bag soil. but like I said above that's with 1.5months veg in 6"square pots and another 2-3weeks after transplanting into 3 gallon pots then flowering in same  3gallon pots  .
    maybe if I use smaller pots wit my mix at the rate I got it at now or same size as usual or even bigger but lower the dosage.  anyone seein hwo im seein it here . im tryin to think like a plant here LOL..  either way im thinkin im usin too much maybe.  idk but tahs why im asin after seein ya'll talkin espoma useage. 

   oh btw I do flush sorta at the end of lfowerin too. actually just water wit strait RO water w/o cal or mag added the last 2 waterings smd they do fine 

wahddya folks  think bout rock dusts like GRD and or azomite. I was told by the company that only things tat would be negative from overdoing rock powders is that it'll tend to cake up is hwo they described it. basically the dusts will almost consolidate into areas and sorta clump up in a sense hindering drainage etc...  but was told that 1 cup per cubic foot of potting soil is jus fine which is bout the rate I administer grd and azomite half cup of each roughly per cubic foot.

man I need to stop posting while high. I tend to babble on an one too much. LOL  ok im doen now im gon go smoke again.  haha


I also know that its hard to burn or over fert wit organics but stil I know that chicken crap which is in espoma tends to be more readily avail right out the gate vs alotta other organics supps and ammendments. also chicken manure I will say can in fact burn plants if overdone spite bein organics still. JME 
 also I have had a few plants that really aren't affected by the whole strange salty like taste tho. and some are just terrible like I said above (like smoking a pretzel LOL)  which is why im wonderin if its simply a case where  naturally different plants different feeding rates needs etc and I use a all in one standard mix. reason why I think this too is cuz I find when doin a grow with 12 plants maybe 4-5 diff strains in total and of course diff phenos  some use less water some more so one I think can only assume that if they not heavy feeders or drinkers then they're just gonna be sittin in a soup of organic goodness suckin it up at its max therefore throwin the taste off. it does seem to be that the ones that aren't the heavier drinkers/eaters that are the ones I notice the salty taste more to. 



nouvellechef<<<   oh hands down way better burn here too. which is whaty I cant see my taste issue bein an over ferting issue of sorts as my buds always burn white or an uber light shade of gray, never crackle or pop and always stays lit.  when usin bottle nutes its not that I was givin them too much or doin it wrong, I think my frustration was over no matter how hard I tried I could never get levels and plants health to where it needed to be to where I could actually cut em off from bottle nutes/supps the last couple weeks to flush, anytime I did theyd be starving neon yellow lookin with still a week to go yet. and when id try keepin em happy by uppin dosage next go just slightly id ened up over ferting and not even an Olympic sized swimming pool of water could flush the nasty chemmy taste form the soil to where plant would simply ride on its own food stors inside itself.  and wat was more head beatin gainst the wall was doin diff strains wit diff needs at same time and each grow doin new ones and tryin to figure all out ...  hence the switch to organics.  
so whats ur favorite tones for flowering and for veg stages and what rates u use it as ?

IDK my head hurts now LOL too much thinkin atm haha


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## The Poet

Howdy, 


     Remember 3 months ago I was switching to Organics and said over watering and fertilizing was to be countered with under watering and fertilizing. Well it worked out great. 
   The plants veg perfectly in Empire builder soil with added Espoma and when they are flipped I used Bio-Flores and that's it. A little chicken manure tea and Molasses but I don't think they really need it.

     I water once every three days adding nutes every watering. However I use only water at first then add the nutes after the soil is wet. This routine has become easy and effective. It's second nature for me now and with seeds from Europe the skies the limit. I'm so inspired in fact I think I'll get all the home brewing stuff down from the attic and brew a bunch of Ale this winter.


                         God is Great Sabu...


                                         ...The Poet


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## ncmga

Greetings all

Espoma organics is an excellent amendments for soil and coco, but also good with hydro. I've been using mainly Plant Tone for years and has never let me down. For mj I make a brew with a coffee maker which is the 'cook' part  and you can make as much as you want. With a 25 lb bag u can make enough liquid fert to last u for a long time.  I did a grow with mix in and another with the brewed version, imo the brewed version was better and trust me your plants will be mouth watering. In a control project,  I grew sativa seed banks ' White Lady'   , one of the mix in and the other the brew  of Espoma Plant-Tone, the brew plants were very sweet and the mix in was relatively 'bitter'. The

 brew WL plants aroma was much more noticeable , and for this the flavor and taste was like roses!  Wow. 

Peace to all!
Atomic Dog


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## Hushpuppy

When you say "brew" in a coffee pot, are you actually heating up the mix? How hot and how long do you "brew" the nutrient tea? Do you add any molasses or sugars to feed the microbes in the Espoma nutes?


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## ncmga

Greetings

YeaHP I brew just like coffee , then for my sweetener stevia done the same way and it be super sweet. The Plant- Tone itself smell sweet like cocoa chocolate. I usually have some rare blended organics and food grade teas now some are like 5-8 years now. Luckily I was able to get some Nitron  A-35, and a rare blend at that that smells  like liquid incense because normally that fresh brewed beer smell. N it ron is a biological soil enzyme that I saw in a old HT magazine. Been using it for almost 20 years off and on. Another rare tea is a 8 year Peruvian sea bird guanos in jars smell as sweet and clarified brewed then with a cheap espresso coffee maker the PT was with a Mr Coffee  maker with paper filter.
U can just about 'brew' most powders  and have an inexpensive fert  that without any other external microbes,  your solution will be activated by Air! Case in point part of my flower program I use Sonnes #2 Calphonite, processed from Bentonite and is used as a food grade calcium supplement with hi levels of  magnesium , potassium and other elements, it is volcanic ash and as an inorganic  mineral, yet able to 'draw' or ferment and Voila !


Peace
Atomic Dog


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