# CFL lighting 101



## cyberquest

ok so your new here and you seen everyone using CFL (compact flourescent) lighting and you have tons of questions. should i get bright white, cool white, warm white? fear not my freind cause i am going to cover with you a few of the basics of CFL lighting. 

first lets talk about their wattage, most CFL are energy savers, this is a added bonus. a 26 watt CFL is compairable to a regular 100w incandecent bulb, puts out the same amount of light , it just uses lower wattage. common sense tells us that the higher the wattage the more light it puts out, so yes you want to find the highest rated light you can. 

second each bulb also has a lumens rating, this is a measurement of percieved value that our eyes see, the higher the lumens, the more light it produces. when you choose your bulbs make sure you find the one with the highest lumens output, this should be listed on the package. 

third we have color temperature spectrum, better translated as Kelins, each bulb has a kelvin color rating as well, and this will be one of the most important parts of choosing your bulb! plants need light in the lower temperature scale to simulate the summer months for veg, and they need a higher temp spectrum of light for flowering. some packages are marked with the color spectrum as well, some are not, you might have to get on the bulbs web site to find out more info. if it is marked on the package it will be rated like this: 2700k ( the k stands for kelvins) 3000k, 4000k, 5000k, and so on and so forth. 

Just as humans need a balanced diet, plants need balanced, full-spectrum light for good health and optimum growth. The quality of light is as important as quantity. Plants are sensitive to a similar portion of the spectrum as is the human eye. This portion of the light spectrum is referred to as photosynthetically active radiation or PAR, namely about 400 to 700 nanometers in wavelength. Nevertheless, plant response within this region is very different from that of humans.

The human eye has a peak sensitivity in the yellow-green region, around 550 nanometers. This is the "optic yellow" color used for highly visible signs and objects. Plants, on the other hand, respond more effectively to red light and to blue light, the peak being in the red region at around 630 nanometers. The graphs below show the human eye response curve and the plant response curve. Note the vast difference in the contours.











so seeing the above charts tell us that a bulb that is best rated for our eye, isnt even close to what is going to get the best response from the plant. so we need to keep this in mind when buying ANY bulb not just CFL lights. you can see the plants peak sensitivity is at 425nm and 625nm, so if you research your light to fall into these peak spectrums of light your going to get bigger yeilds from your plants. our eyes are peak sensativity is at around 575nm so a bulb that is used to give us peak lighting isnt what is best for out plants. 


ok your still with me, but maybe your a tad confused with all the technical mumbo jumbo. lets give you another scale to maybe help understand a little easier. 





here you can see the K relation on the NW scale, notice the curve of each color temperature spectrum and how much different they are.

the bottom K numbers are scales to represent colors of light that we see (K). 

9300K = sunlight rated bulbs
6500K = bright white
5000K = soft white
3200K = warm white 

you can see on the scale above each lights color temp spectrum in relation to the NM color spectrum that plants see. plants peak sensitivity to light is 425nw for vegatative growth, so which bulb above would be best for our plants?  if you answered 6500K get up go to the kitchen and get yourself a cookie cause you did good so this tells us that a 6500k bulb would be best suited for us to use to grow seedlings in their veg stage. 

REMEMBER this about the K scale, this is a scale set and used by the light industry to give ratings to bulbs based on what is best suited to our eyes!

this above scale isnt a good scale to choose our flower bulb with cause its a rough scale of the basic standards set by the light industry.

so how do i choose my flowering CFL bulb, well best i can say is with research, here is a example of a bulbs output as provided by its manufacturer. 

here is a graph on a Sylvania 30w CFL, 1700 lumens, rated at 3000K




bulb specs: 1700 lumens 3000k 
you can see that the bulbs peak output is right around 625nm, and where is our plants PEAK sensitivity for flower at? same as this bulbs peak output, so this bulb would be great if you are going to flower with a CFL bulb. 

ok so you now have a basic understanding of what CFL bulb you are looking for, but i will tell you know that finding a 6500k CFL is gonna take some searching, WHY? because our eyes are more sensitive to the 575nm range, which is in the warm white bulb range, so 90% of CFL bulbs are going to be in this range because it will APPEAR brighter to our eyes. but at the end of this topic i will give you a link to some SUPER awsome CFL bulbs so dont worry, i got you covered  

now we need to talk about something else, LIGHT INTENSITY. this too is very important for growing plants! Light intensity diminishes the further it has to travel. This is the same for HID, CFL or your normal household lamp. If you hold a light meter up close to any lamp and then slowly lower the meter, even a few inches, you will see the light measurement reduces dramatically.

so what does this tell us? the farther the bulb is away from the plant, the less intense the light is to the plant. light intensity reduces by half for every foot it is away from the plants. So if your bulbs are a foot above your plants much of the light is wasted or lost. not to fear though because a CFL produces much less heat then a HID bulb (MH & HPS) so you want the bulb as close as possible to the plant without burning it so that you arent loosing the intensity of the light. 

that being said i want to talk about HID lights for a second. The problem with HID lamps is they are so hot you cannot place them close to your plants. a 400w HPS bulb is recommend to be at least 22 inches above the plant, and remember what you just read about light intensity at a foot away, so at 22 inches your almost two feet away from the plant much of the light, and your money, is wasted. there are special cooling hoods avalible for HID bulbs that help keep them cool, and if your using a HID lamp you need one so you dont loose the intensity of your light. 

In the past fluorescent lamps were always known to have excellent 'daylight' colour output but not the same photon power as HID / HPS lamps. The spectrum from fluorescents was ideal for propagation/seedlings but not for real time growing, because they were small watt versions and did not have the lumen / photon output. (i.e. an average household fluorescent tube is only about 35 watts. Nice spectrum but low light output! )

The development of high-output compact fluorescent means you can now get the correct colour spectrum, always associated with fluorescents, but with much higher light output. This means that CFL's are now capable of much, much higher lumen output with all the benefits of the ideal, spectrum output.

Photon strength is still not as strong as HID Lamps (although with our new reflectors we are getting there) but because these new lamps generate much less heat they can be placed just inches of the leaves, and this is a very, very important factor when using grow lamps so that you dont loose your light intesity.


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## cyberquest

ok now we are really gonna throw you for a loop. we have stated above that LUMENS is a rating set bu the lighting industry to give us a scale of measurement of light to our eyes. BUT what is the scale of measurement for the plant? this measurement is called PGL (plant growth lumens) and is a more accurate measurement of light seen and used by the plant. so in all reality, LUMENS means aboslutly NOTHING to the plant, cause it doesnt see human lumens as rated by the light industry scale. it sees PGL which is actual lumens to the plant. 

here is an example of humen lumens in compairison to PGL of a CFL bulb.

20w CFL is rated at 1200 human lumens. 
The PGL of a 20w CFL is 841. 
this means that the plant sees 70% of PGL in compaison to HUMAN lumens. 

now lets take a look at a MH bulb.
50w MH is rated at 3000 HUMAN lumens.
the PGL of a 50w MH is 1890.
this means that the plant sees 63% of PGL in compairison to HUMAN lumens. 

now we look at a HPS bulb. 
35w HPS is rated at 2240 HUMAN lumens. 
the PGL of a 35w HPS is 1534.
this means that the plant sees 68% of PGL in compairison to HUMAN lumens. 

so for all you people that have a 400w HPS (myself included) which is rated at 55,000 lumens this means that the plant is only actually getting and USING 68% of those HUMAN rated lumens. so 68% of 55,000 lumens is 37,400 PGL. BUT lets also take into consideration what i mentioned above about LIGHT INTENSITY, that HPS light is 22 inches away from your plant. so our actual lumens is cut in half for every foot, so is the PGL, meaning that the 55,000 lumens HPS light is actually only 11,500 HUMAN lumens because we are almost two feet away. which also means that the PGL is cut down for every foot of distance meaning that the ACTUAL plant PGL is now only 9350.

what does this mean? it means that you thought you have 55,000 lumens in your your grow room, and YOU DO, looking at it with your HUMAN eyes. BUT, thru the plants eyes so to speak, its only seeing the 11,500. and you have done all your math based on HUMAN lumens. 

so your 4x2 grow room has 8 sq ft. 55,000 lumens divided by 6 = 6875 HUMAN lumens per sq ft.
BUT in all reality its 37,400 PGL divided by 8 = 4675 PGL sq ft. 

but since your light almost two feet above your plant we have to cut that by half for every foot of distance, which gives us 1168 PGL per sq ft. so are we really acheiving our goal of 6000 lumens per square foot with our HPS, as measured in HUMAN lumens we are, BUT in PGL we are NOT!! 


now back to our percentage of efficency of human lumens to PGL. 

CFL = 70% 
MH = 63%
HPS = 68% 

we see by this that the CFL bulb has the highest percentage of HUMAN lumens to PGL. so this actually makes it the most EFFICENT of the three bulbs. 

AND since we cn place our more efficent CFL bulb right on top of out plants this means that our light intensity is actually greater also!

so lets figure my CFL room like we did my 400w HPS. 
 i have 12 26w 1600 lumens bulbs, all evenly spaced over the entire 4x2 encloser not just concentrated over the very top but more evenly spread over the canopy. 

so i have a total  HUMAN lumens output of 19,200 lumens divided by my 6 sq ft = 3200 HUMAN lumens per sq ft. (within the acceptable range of  3000-4000) 

but as stated the plant only sees 70% of that so the PGL = 13,440 PGL divided by 6 = 2240 PGL

SO we see in all reality that the CFL room is MORE EFFICIENT at providing ACTUAL PGL TO THE PLANT!!!!!!!!!!

AND we are doing this only using 312 watts as opposed to our 400watts it takes to run our HIGH powered HPS light. 

so unless you can COOL down your high powered HPS bulb enought to drop it down to a 4 inch distance that the CFL can be at, the CFL can be a MORE EFFICIENT , COST EFFECTIVE, light for your grow room.


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## cyberquest

take a look at some of these new CFLS! 

so you think a CFL cant put out enough lumens huh? 




this is a 300w, 21,600 lumens CFL, that was designed to replace MH bulbs! it had the equivalant of a 1500w bulb! at only 300w of power mind you. only avalible in the 5500K spectrum. 
http://www.uswaycorp.com/CFL.htm










these ones use a ballast just like a MH or HPS but again only 300w of power and the output of a 1500w bulb. 
http://www.azeehydro.com/nurturelite.html


this is the envirolite, not quit as powerfull as the ones listed above but they are rated at 6700k (veg) and 2700k (flower)




http://www.envirolites.co.uk/lightinfo

look to see more and more CFL grow bulbs popping up, cause it looks like this might be the new age of indoor growing

this one requires a mogul based socket like a MH & HPS but doesnt need a ballast, its ballast is self contained, it just uses the larger socket. 




http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/grow-bulbs-fluorescent-c-73.html


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## pussum

So what would be a good bulb to get if you are just starting out? I guess you need two sets as one would be for flowering and the other for veg. So just name off something that will do the job. Nothing to complicated or detailed. Just something to start with.

P.S.- Lots of great info. Keep it up!


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## cyberquest

This one would be awsome! 
http://www.topbulb.com/find/Product_Description.asp_Q_intProductID_E_49655

although way more pricey then your average bulb, but its a 6500k bulb and it 6750 lumens, would be a great veg bulb. 

this is gonna be the next part to this post i hope, like i said way up at the top there finding a 6500k bulb in your average department store is going to be tricky cause most of them are going to be warm white cause its what APPEARS brighter to use cause its color spectrum is in our peak sensitivity range. 

i know last time i was at lowes i saw a full spectrum bulb, full spectrum means absoluty nothing really except they call it special and charge more, but its a much blue array of light so i want to do some more research. 

i hope to find and track down these harder to find bulbs so i can give everyone links on where to get them. 

i finished this topic at about 4am my time so i am pretty tired today, but in the name of MJ i must push on!


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## T-Bone

This is a truly awsome post and should be here forever. thank you
~T-Bone


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## cyberquest

ok looks like home depot has some good ones.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	








Philips 27w 1750 lumens 2700k $10 for a two pack.






Philips 27w 1660 lumens 6500k $13 for a two pack.


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## cyberquest

while i was out at wal-mart today getting some pots i browsed thru the lighting section and ran across these and picked them up. 




26w 1600 lumens 6500K   price : $6.44 





here is the 6500K next to a 2700K , you can see the yellow/orange color of the 2700K and the blueish color of the 6500K. i have two 6 light bars in there, my goal is to have 6 2700k and 6 6500k when its all done.


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## Brouli

CQ   i use 2 26watt  that put down 1750


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## T-Bone

that looks like a nice set up.  and i saw those lights at wayy world a few hours ago, thats f-ed up i was gonna post about those.
~T-Bone


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## Brouli

Ok  CQ  i dont want to ride on your thread  but  what do u think on this  CFL 


65W FLUOREX BULB 
6825  lumes 
cool white 
and the price is $18.50

thats the link 
http://lighting.gillroys.com/Light_bulbs/Flourescent_light_bulbs/65W_FLUOREX_BULB-s562424.html


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## Brouli

o sorry  i found this bulb for $9.98  at :
http://www.yinyanghome.com/Products/LOA/9266c.html

thats 20 475 lumes (3 bulbs) for $29.94      195 watts    thats better than hps, mh , halogen ,and all of the rest


That the future folks


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## cyberquest

good find  thats a mogul base bulb though, just like the MH and HPS use, and i cant tell if its self ballast or not. good price and good lumen output though.


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## Brouli

they dont use ballast i check with a guy in store thats the beauty of it .


CQ   so if i run  302 watts 
that 4 of those and and regular 42 watt CFL 
tahat 29500 lumes  in a room 2x3  that 4916 lumes per square feet is that  good for good yeld ??


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## cyberquest

your right about on the money, they say 5000-6000 for best results and your just a hair shy so i would think you would see great results. 

AND with that light not being all packed into one unit you can place them at different areas in the grow room to give you more even light within your grow room. 

i have thought about making a small box myself for veg with four of those similar lights, placing one in each four corners. i think that would give and awsome grow cause the light could hit all areas of the plant and not just the top.


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## bombbudpuffa

2 to 200 watt cfls-http://www.1000bulbs.com/category.php?category=2086


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## g-13

i have 2 600w hps. so u mean to tell me i wasted my $ and could of been growing with lights from walmart all along. that hydro store really stuck me on those lights too.


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## cyberquest

no thats not what i am saying, i too use a 400w hps for flower. what i am saying is that the farther away it is the less value it is to the plants. the cooler you can get the light the closer you can get it and the more value it will have on the plant. HPS still has very good penetrating values. 

my plans for mine are to upgrade to a cool tube, they are 6inch tubes that house the light and allow you to install a fan on both ends, one sucking in , one blowing out, this way it will keep it super cool and allow you to drop it within inches of the plant. 

how far are your lights away from the plants?? 600w is 95,000 lumens if i am not mistaken. i know that my top of plant temps at 22 inches is around 90 degrees, any closer and it would fry them because of the heat. so if you are 24" away lets say, you loose light intensity for every foot you are away by 50%, so at two feet its cut in half, then half again. so at two feet away the light intensity is only at 23,750 lumens so to speak. times that by two lights you have for a total of 47,500 lumens at two feet away with two 600w HPS. 

its would take 30 CFL bulbs at 1600 lumens each to get that much light to the plants. thats about your average lumens of a wal-mart style 100w equivelent CFL. 

the point of me making this post is that the technology of CFL's is increasing, they are producing more lumens then when they first came out, and are making there way into the horticulture scene very fast, and wont be long before we have mega lumens grow lights capible of produce the lumens of the HID lights. 

the thing that makes CFL's favorable is that you can get them close to the plants like flouros, so your not loosing you light intensity making them more efficent ONLY because they can be placed closer to the plants. 

trust me when i say those two 600w HPS are gonna give you some kick butt buds!


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## cyberquest

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> 2 to 200 watt cfls-http://www.1000bulbs.com/category.php?category=2086



good find! keep them coming guys.


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## g-13

cool thanks im gonna use cfl to do my veg.


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## cyberquest

thats what i do, CFL for veg and 400w HPS for flower. my seedlings nodes are super close together which means they are loving the light. 

now they say that more light in the blue spectrum will help improve your chances of female plants

here are the cool tubes i was talking about.


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## g-13

thats cool. it just sucks a** at how much i spent on those 600s and the guy at the store acted like he did me a favor. i didnt know any better but hey u live and learn. i wish i would of read this forum b4 i went and got equipment could've saved a lot of $. thanks cyberquest u always help out.


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## cyberquest

its cool man, but trust me you didnt waste money on them lights! they are still gonna give you one good azz grow man! all i am saying is using a cool tube like above will allow you to get some of the light thats wasted back into good use. 

almost all the growers here are using HPS lights to flower, up until very recently its been the best choice in lights, and is still prefered by many growers. but just like everything in this world eventually something is gonna come along thats just a little better. CFL's are getting there.


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## g-13

i can see that everyone is using the cfl they're really getting the job done for alot less $


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## Brouli

i think usefull info about CFL and HID  CQ if you posted that already sorry .
anyway  thas are cons and pros  of CFL's 

*Pros: *
Reduced heat output allows closer positioning to plants in addition to operation in enclosed spaces without the heat build-up associated with HID systems. 

Integrated systems are easier to use than multiple component HID systems. 

Fluorescent tubes maintain lumen output longer and generally cost less than HID lamps. 

Internally-ballasted fluorescent tube fixtures take up minimal space and can hang vertically or horizontally. 

Balanced, full-spectrum fluorescents can stimulate both vegetative growth AND fruiting and flowering. 

A linear light source has less shading than a single-point HID source. 


*Cons:* 
Fluorescents do not penetrate the plant canopy as well as their HID counterparts. 

Initial investment is comparable to that of a small HID system. 

HID lamps often surpass fluorescents in efficiency of lumen-per-watt delivery.


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## cyberquest

good post man, covers some of the stuff i already said but puts it into a little easier terms to understand i think. 

my HID lamp is slowly loosing popularity around here


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## Brouli

its cool man i hope one day you can add some of my usefull info  and anybody else put it together in one or two post and  let Hick or TBG  lock it on the top of the forum 


just a thought


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## Nelson Mutz

cyber...you've done some really great research here! Nice primer for new growers and good links! You're a credit to the board...so have a hit on me...:bong1: 

Nelson


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## samiam03

What kind of base do I want. Is medium the normal lamp kind?

for example would this bulb http://www.1000bulbs.com/product.php?product=9191 fit in any lamp?


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## Brouli

yes it would


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## cyberquest

yep that bulb would work in any fixture in the house. they can be found at just about any department store! lowes, home depot, walmart,kmart, dollar general, target, meijers, and so on and so forth.


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## Snivvle

If I had two plants, do you think 4 of these Fluorescent bulbs would suffice, without any reflective walls (foil/mylar/etc.)? or should I still surround plants with reflective lining.


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## Brouli

hmmm  i didnt used before but trust it make a big diference couse lower branches get light  as far  as 4 bulbs go yea thats enof


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## Snivvle

Bouli I am thinking about buying the flood light from http://www.yinyanghome.com/Products/LOA/9266c.html

as you mentioned. Do you still think that is a good way to go?


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## Brouli

i just bought those  but i got mine from home depot 
85 watt  cot $42      and 100 watt  $52 with some change


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## Snivvle

Can i plug them into a regular lamp, or what kind of fixture do i need to plug it into?


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## Brouli

if you talk about fluorex they  they come in fixtures  just a bulb 100 watt  is 15$

and thosa are mogul base  the prices abov are with complete fixtures ready go with ballast and everything   you not going to fin  nothig cheaper that beat 10000 lumes for 52$  

they got regular base but is 42watt    puts dow like over 4200 lumes


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## cyberquest

yep looks like that would be a good bulb. 

thats the thing with CFL's they can be found at almost anywhere. and for low budget people you can expand literally one bulb at a time till you build up to what suits your grow needs best.


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## night501

thats what i did. started with 2 40w bulbs and now im up to 8.


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## Magoo

I love the cfls and the cooltubes.....   great read.... eace:


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## benajmin1137

r these any good ? 

http://store3-store.stores.yahoo.net/energy-saving-light-bulb.html


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## Viracocha711

You want to look for "Daylight" Cool daylight bulbs 6500K...I am 85% sure "soft light" will be in between warm light and cool light...Maybe somewhere around 5000K?


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## cyberquest

i have 10 2700k cfl's and 2 6500k cfl's in my veg room, so far that room has produced 14 out of 15 females so i am not changing anything. i wanted more 6500k bulbs but there is that saying "dont fix it if it isnt broke!"


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## LaserKittensGoPewPew

interesting because I was reading another thread on how to boost female to male ratios with normal seeds and it said you have better resuslts with more 6500k bulbs. Are you using feminized seeds?


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## cyberquest

no, i have more 2700k bulbs, and only two 6500k bulbs. they say that the more blue light you have the more female producing, and the 6500k is the blue spectrum light and the 2700k are more a redish and more appropriate for flowering really. 

thats where i am baffled at, i have more red light then blue lights and have a 14 to 15 female ratio out of this first batch. another key factor they say are enviormental conditions, my CFL veg room stays a calm cool 72 degrees all the time. so i think that might have played a roll in the outcome. 

and i am growing from all bagseed, just random seeds we have over the past year or so, no feminized seeds, or no store bought seeds, just ones we have. 

and things didnt turn out bad at all if  you ask me.


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## LaserKittensGoPewPew

Did you flower under the cfls also?


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## cyberquest

yes, i flowered with CFL's and HPS, we had 6 under the HPS and 8 under the CFL's. 

now the HPS light plants did produce much larger and more buds then the ones flowered under the CFL, BUT the CFL room is only 19,600 lumens, and the HPS room is 53,000 lumens of light, so there is a HUGE difference in the amount of light thats being put out. 

the thing that i like about the CFLS is that temps are much easier to maintain, it stays a cool 72 degrees in the CFL room and the HPS room is anywhere from 80 degrees up to 95 degrees on some days. the HPS room temp goes up and down, some days its in the 90's and somedays its in the 80's. the cfl room stays the same temp ALL the time. 

we did harvest one of the CFL room plants, and we very very happy with the smoke quality of the buds, but the buds were much smaller. 

so it is totally possibale from start to finish to use cfl's for your entire grow, we still want to add some more lumens to the CFL room and maybe give it another shot at flowering. but for this next batch of plants we just want some monster plants so we are still going to be using the HPS for flowering, but are going to use scrogging. 

here is one of the HPS plants that was harvested tonight. pretty nice top bud!


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## HydrO PasSiOn

cyberquest i give you mad props on posting this thread bro. good job on helpin people out bro


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## cyberquest

brouli, thats a bagseed bud!  

one of these days we will get around to ordering some good seeds, but we want to use up these 50 or so seeds we have left first.


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## absynth

This is what I have.  Do you think I need to buy something additional?  I'm worried that it won't be enough.  ( i plan to get a better light when my space increases)  
The room is a small closet maybe 4X2.  I plan to grow 3 plants.  
Single T5 Fluorescent Fixture with Tube, 48 inches 
T5 fluorescent bulb 
6400K tube
Oh , i also have a reflector on it
thanks!


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## Viracocha711

I love CFL's!!!...And yes, thank you cyberquest for this thread, it is very good...And I personally think CFL's and then LED's are the future of indoor growing...I hope anyway?


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## Nelson Mutz

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> I love CFL's!!!...And yes, thank you cyberquest for this thread, it is very good...And I personally think CFL's and then LED's are the future of indoor growing...I hope anyway?


 
I'm with you on this one, Viracocha...

The technology for CFL's and LED's continue to be at the front of the lighting industry, in terms of development. The more I read about both, the more I think that it *IS* the future, and will make cultivation much better.

I thanked you earlier in the thread, cyberquest, but, what the hell....................................thanks again!! :yay: 


Nelson


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## Hazebie

i love this thread, please keep the info coming.


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## cyberquest

thanks everyone ! 

i am glad so many people are finding this post useful, i didnt knotice that anyone else had done any research on the CFL's so i started doing my homework and put this post together. 

i am 110% happy with the product that my CFL's put out, they are great VEG lights and dont do a bad job of flowering either.


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## Viracocha711

Do you know where I could find a Dual 125 watt CFL reflcetor that is sold from a USA website?

I know there are some euro websites selling them but I can't get a reply on shipping cost from them so I figure it is not cheap...

Again, thanks for this thread!


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## cyberquest

try ebay, just search for grow lights or cfl grow lights and it will pop up about 300 of them, and it will tell you exactly how much it would cost to ship it.


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## HydrO PasSiOn

hey guys if i had a grow space of 2 feet by 2 feet how many lumens would i need?


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## SmokinMom

Great thread, you rock!!


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## cyberquest

HydrO PasSiOn said:
			
		

> hey guys if i had a grow space of 2 feet by 2 feet how many lumens would i need?



its easy math man. 

you have a 2x2 room, thats 4 sq ft. 

they say optimal light for veg growth is 3000-4000 lumens per square ft. of canopy for optimal growth, and 5000-6000 lumens per sq ft for flowering for optimal growth. 

so if you have 15,000 lumens in your closet, divide that by 4 and you have, 3000 lumens per sq ft. what ever your total number of lumens is, by the sqare ft. of your grow space. 

the only problem i see for you is that 2x2 isnt a very large space at all and i would think the plants would very quickly outgrow that space. you have to take account for the space the bulbs hang down, and the space whatever pot its in takes up. if your bulb hangs down 6 inches, and your pots are 6 inches tall, you just lost half your grow space!


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## HydrO PasSiOn

hey cyber. No bro. my hydro kit is  1foot tall. its 20 inches long by 14.inches wide. my grow height is 5'3''. my lights hang down 14inches also so im at around 3feet grow height before they touch the lights. im trying to keep them aat 2 and a half or so. any more advice? thanks man


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## chipg07

hxxp://stores.ebay.com/MONICAS-MALL...hts_W0QQcolZ2QQdirZQ2d1QQfsubZ3QQftidZ2QQtZkm


This is a pretty good place to grab the cfl's.  They have the fixture/ballast included, and are only $17.50 a piece + $20 shipping for a total of $54.99 for two as compared to $40 each at home depot.

You can also buy 4 or 6 packs of them


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## thc is good for me

Pretty good deal i woulda bought a 2 pack of those if i didnt already buy an led grow light still havnt got it in the mail i have heard both good and bad about led's


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## RenoVader

This is the thread ive been looking for!

In your opinion what is the best flowering CFL the average person can buy at a department store?  That Home Depot Marathon?


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## ChatNoir

Good work! The closer is the better just like my grow space design.


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## slowmo77

i just wanna bump this back in to the rotation. good info in this thread


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## city

ok i may be asking in the wrong place you know your stuff about Flours. i cant afford going big time right now. i have a t5 going in my flower state. not a big producer light for sure. grow closet is 5' tall x 36"deep x 5' lng. should i keep the t5 on top and cfl the side?


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## slowmo77

what spectrum is the t5? if its 2700k then leave it where it is and just add cfls above and around the sides. i've used the silver reflectors with claps, the way you can direct the light to shine oln the areas you want. i hope that makes sense.


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## 4u2sm0ke

Thanks slomo for bringing it up...again....this is an old thread...and is a great read...

Hey city..slowmo is the guy to ask about cfl..just read up on his /her posts..Im just starting with them....only 4 Male chamber tho...

thanks slowmo77....this Bongs 4U


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## city

slowmo. has helped in a couple of Diff. post. im perinoid now.(I think he/she) is following me)lol.

Ok Slowmo. i was thinking of doing a sea of green. in the above discribed closet. 6 smalls starting at 12" before flower. on a deep root hydro.(just started 15 min ago in the drip system (sprouts).lol this is now in a reflective tent. box is put together but not finished. soing hi reflective inside. since the hydro tub is 1' tall that leaves me 4' to the top. i was thinking of doing 8  flours on  the left and right side and 8 on top. that can be moved up and down. this will be my Veg and bloom set up. what suggestions do you have. that doesnt require a trip to the bank....


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## 4u2sm0ke

Hey city....another thing someone shared with me was.."when asking a question in another thread its good to thank the person you are responding too"...other wise  they  "slow" may not come back to this post..how else would he/she know?..make any sence?..Im going to rip a few more...Good luck my friend


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## city

true true. still new to this.m thanks


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## cuzigothigh

Do you know if it would be harmful to mix different bulbs w different temperatures?
(would light find a middle ground between 5500k and 6500k? (average light out?))

ie.
2 65w @ 6500k
3 18w @ 5500k

I've been having problems with burns and yellowing on my veg plants using this setup (before i had a total of 6 18watters not 3), i was thinking i placed them to close to the plants but now maybe it was the different temperatures????

Also, 

don't leave water drops on leaves if you are using CFLs, they will burn the plant.

CZ


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## Tom O'Bedlam

I've used a 120w 6700k for veg and am using a 120w 2700k for flower, along with a bunch of smaller (20-ish watt) bulbs thrown around for good measure.  Had to buy seperate ballasts, but so far so good. Dropped one bulb (ouch) early on...there goes 70 bucks..I'll let you all know what the yield is like


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## Hick

Rom, you broke a cfl?? you might want to check out their "environmental hazards". The contain a li'l bit of mercury. 
I doubt enough to do you any major harm, but children or pets "might" be effected.


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## Tom O'Bedlam

Hick said:
			
		

> Rom, you broke a cfl?? you might want to check out their "environmental hazards". The contain a li'l bit of mercury.
> I doubt enough to do you any major harm, but children or pets "might" be effected.



Thanx Hick. That is important to remember. I'm all over it...luckily the bulb rolled onto the floor and didn't really shatter, but was definitely unusable. No hazmat suits needed this time. Be careful when handling those big suckers...they're unweildy...


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## Agent 47

wow...great post..thanks


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## potwarrior

great read... good thing i read it too cuz i was going to buy a 1000w MH for veg. w/o a blower to cool the light.

it would be cool if someone can start a *"L.E.D. lighting 101"* thread so we can learn about leds, too.

thanks


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## potwarrior

Brouli said:
			
		

> they dont use ballast i check with a guy in store thats the beauty of it .
> 
> 
> CQ so if i run 302 watts
> that 4 of those and and regular 42 watt CFL
> tahat 29500 lumes in a room 2x3 that 4916 lumes per square feet is that good for good yeld ??


 
does this mean you can just plug n play in a regular light fixture? did you just buy the bulb?

also, did you get it shipped or local pickup? if pickup where is their store located?

thanks


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## kaine

Hello everyone - 

Can't tell you how thrilled I am to have found this thread re: cfl's. 

I am a newbie and I'm getting prepered to grow soon. I also took a peek on ebay and searched under cfl, sog and scrog - sounds like more and more people are having good results performing entire grow cycles under just cfl's.

This site is amazing.


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## slowmo77

keep in mind that cfls only work well with small grows where you keep your plants short. under 3 feet tall unless you place them all around the plant. jmo. 

heres a link to a site Akirahz posted a week or so ago with super low prices Hps lightin systems.. just thought i'd share it in case some of you missed it

http://www.e-conolight.com/Product/EProductDetail.asp?ProductFamilyID=7&FGNumber=E-MT6H151G


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## kaine

Hey there slowmo, I went to that link and I couldn't find any hid mh or hps systems.... maybe I'm just not finding them.

I do want to be small and I'm not too concerned about yield. I am concerned about quality though. 

Thanks for the reply.


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## slowmo77

when you click on the link look under the vapor light section.. those are small lights 150watts or less. if your looking for a whole lighting system try .xxx.insidesun.com they have reflectors and all that


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## zipflip

cyberquest said:
			
		

> while i was out at wal-mart today getting some pots i browsed thru the lighting section and ran across these and picked them up.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 26w 1600 lumens 6500K  price : $6.44
> 
> 
> here is the 6500K next to a 2700K , you can see the yellow/orange color of the 2700K and the blueish color of the 6500K. i have two 6 light bars in there, my goal is to have 6 2700k and 6 6500k when its all done.


 
so then from the pic i c ur usin the 6500k and the 2700k in combination durin erly veg...   do u keep ur lighting set up like this from seed to finish or do u remove the  6500k's come frlowering...  jus curious cuz i was at first under the understanding that u use the daylight  6500k's  only for veg up til flower then the 2700k's seperate alone for flower...
????
  other than that i have to give this thread a 2 thumbs up.  ah hell i'll give it an extra big toe up too lol  but for real, excellent post cyberquest.  i appreciate this. as i will be goin cfl indoors this winter  after this years outdoor harvest.  thanks.


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## Tom O'Bedlam

I don't know what cyberquest is doing, but my book recommended 6500k for veg and then either 2700k alone or 2700k with some 6500k "mixed in" for flower. I'm flowering with primarily a 120w 2700k with 6 other 20-ish watt bulbs, only one of which is 6500k. I don't know if there's a perfect ratio of 6500/2700 for flowering. It's working for me...the pic is from about 6 days ago..


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## pussum

Ol' Cyberquest hasn't been on these boards in quite sometime. Shame to. He was a pretty stand up fellow.


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## time4tokin20s

Check out my cfl setup in my journal below.I'm using 10-27000k and 2-65000k cfl's in a old stainless steel sink I found for my flowering light.


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## TokeWithHope

hey sry if this question was already asked but i dont have time to read the whole thread right now as im about to go to sleep i have class tomorrow morning. but is it possible to use (3) 25 watt grow bright cfls 6500k, 1,800 lumens to grow a lst'd mother in a box 20'' - 29'' - 70''


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## JogaBonito521

Would theses CFLs work for both flowering and veg since its between cool white and warm white? Has anyone tried growing with only these bulbs?

hxxp://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100178351&N=10000003+90401+501576


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## RenoVader

hXXp://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&productId=100178351&N=10000003+9%200401+501576
Heres the link from Joga that is clickable.

I cant see anything that tells the light spectrum!


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## ozzydiodude

:watchplant: :farm: This thread is a must read for all neebies to indoor growing. Thank to new neighbors I have move the greenhouse indoors  this thread changed my outlook on lights verus SUN for growing.:hubba:  


:tokie: :48: 

:headbang2: :bong1:


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## HydroManiac

cyberquest said:
			
		

> thats what i do, CFL for veg and 400w HPS for flower. my seedlings nodes are super close together which means they are loving the light.
> 
> now they say that more light in the blue spectrum will help improve your chances of female plants
> 
> here are the cool tubes i was talking about.


 
these cool tubes hold 65watt cfls??


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## TokeWithHope

i dont think u would need a cooltube for a cfl.....


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## Pierced

Great Post I have 3 CFL's and 2 2 foot Flo's


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## RB1

This Is A Fantastic Thread But To Be Honest I,m Still A Little Unsure . To Keep It Simple .....and If I Have Two Plants  2x2x4 Space What Cfls And How Many Would I Need ??????? 

I,m Lost Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan


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## Colorado Lady

Thank you cyberquest for this excellent post.  Thought I had it all figured out until I read your post about color temp spectrum.  Find I purchased a "full spectrum spring lamp" for veging from a growers supply and it was only 2700K.  Thanks to you I have returned it and reordered a 6500k.


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## schoolboy420

RB1 said:
			
		

> This Is A Fantastic Thread But To Be Honest I,m Still A Little Unsure . To Keep It Simple .....and If I Have Two Plants  2x2x4 Space What Cfls And How Many Would I Need ???????
> 
> I,m Lost Maaaaaaaaaaaaaaan



all im gonna say is the more the better. im currently on 2 42w an 11w and a flouro tube, i need more light.


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## MeNtAlPaTiEnT

I'm currently on:

1x 45w
2x 42w
2x 27w
2x 23w

Not sure of the spectrums but the 23 watters are more yellowish and the rest are really white. Seems to work fine .


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## bleezyroller

did u spill something on this thread? its pretty sticky 

great information


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## Newbud

Buzzin lol. Thats just answered fair few questions i had.
What a star for puttin this info up.
Was thinking cfl to keep a mother plant going but couldn't get my head round what bulb/bulbs to get.
Pretty sure i got it sussed now so thanx


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## Real78

He some to check out that are pretty cheap hxxp://growwurks.com/fluorescent-grow-lights.aspx


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## Newbud

A link for the other British boys hXXp://hydroponica.biz/shop/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_21_29


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## the chef

thnxs for the read using 8-n:vision 27watt/1400 lumens cfl spirals (home dep.)for my indoor veg grow. things looking great so far, cant wait to switch to the reds for flowering. Journal started under first grow bagseed.


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## Delta9

Useful information on CFL Grolites that I think belongs here-  hxxp://www.enviro-gro-lites.co.uk/stuff1.asp

I purchased one 125W 6400K Grolite for my small seedling raising area-and searched high and low for info on the practicalities of using these bulbs in my grow space..

This explains everything pretty clearly.


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