# Fight Off Bugs And Disease With Aspirin



## bombbudpuffa

We've all heard that advice from doctors. And moms have been dispensing this all-purpose cure-all to their families as a standard way of providing relief from headaches and sniffles, muscle aches and joint pain.
       Then it should be no surprise to learn how an important aspirin ingredient--salicylic acid--is being used as an Earth-friendly first aid for warding off plant diseases. 
       Meet Martha McBurney, the master gardener in charge of the demonstration vegetable garden at the University of Rhode Island. In the summer of 2005 she tested aspirin water on tomatoes, cucumbers, beans, basil and other plants after reading about it in a gardening publication called the _Avant Gardener_ (PO Box 489, New York, NY 10028). The results were well, astonishing... 
"What caught my eye in the original _Avant Gardener _article was it said that aspirin is an activator of Systemic Acquired Resistance (SAR). And that plants, when under stress, naturally produce salicylic acid, but not fast enough and in sufficient quantities to really help them out in time. So the bugs get them, and diseases get them, and they show even more stress.​       "But if you _give_ them aspirin, it helps boost their immune system, kind of like feeding people echinacea so they don't get a cold. 


hxxp://www.plantea.com/plant-aspirin.htm

I use up to ten aspirin a gallon an mature plants with no ill effect.


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## Motor City Madman

Thanks for the tip!


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## ArtVandolay

Interesting but I have a question - aspirin water routinely or when plant(s) shows problems?

Thanks!  Makes quite a bit more sense than birth control pills to increase probability of females


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## bombbudpuffa

Once, before any problems occur then apply as they happen. I've never seen an aspirin fed plant with a pest prob though.


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## Lemmongrass

i had read this and used it many times but never had seen it backed up with how it worked. thank you very much.


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## Sir_Tokie

What mg of asprin do you use? 81mg, 100mg ect.. per gallon of water?...take care..


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## Sir_Tokie

Also an asprin, would it be considered a disolved solid? And if so how much effect did it have on your ppm and PH? And can it apply to both soil and hydro? Thanks...take care..


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## crozar

im going to buy some aspirin tonight lol
thanks for the great info


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## bombbudpuffa

> What mg of asprin do you use?


Whatever regular strength is.


> would it be considered a disolved solid?


I'm sure it would.


> how much effect did it have on your ppm and PH?


I don't monitor PPM but it makes my PH acidic...you'll have to adjust Ph.


> can it apply to both soil and hydro?


Honestly, i've only used it in soil so i'm not sure about the dro thing. Sorry.


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## ozzydiodude

Thanks bombbudpuffa, this help to keep plants health and bugs away will help us all. Plus the asprin will help when the marijuana is used.


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## bombbudpuffa

After you feed them aspirin they will have a strong aspirin smell for a few days. It's kind of weird. Btw, Sir Tokie my bottle is reg strength, light coat, 325 mg.


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## SmokinMom

You know this tip helped me battle those terrible carterpillars BBP, thanks.


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## bombbudpuffa

If everyone used aspirin the insecticide companies would go out of business. Works on everything. I've got some rose bushes to treat today.


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## Super Silver Haze

thanks to you im using it.  i also used it on all the out door plants.  i didnt get an asprin smell after spraying it but it was mixed in with superthrive.


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## slowmo77

i used this method to combat a spider mite problem, it helped for sure but before i could get them under control i had to chop. but i did notice a smell. thanks BBP, good tip for sure


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## zipflip

thats neat as hell. i even wrote it down on note card and tacked it in my grow so i remmber this one.
  strangely i also recall as a lil kid like really lil, that dad use to always have his real xmas tree and he always took an aspirin or two and crushed it in the water in the tree base. the base we had had a huge water rexevoir in it. and he also the first night would spray the tree wit aspirin water. he said it helps keep its look and from dien too quik.  
  i never really gave it much mind until now.  thanx BBP
  i wonder if it work just crushin up like 1/4 or 1/2 aspirin an add to water durrin waterings the same results? but maybe healthier roots too even.  i just may have to experiment on one my wekext females an see.


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## GrowinGreen

coool i wish i would have known about this when i had spidermites


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## nvthis

Bomb, the article says to spray, so do you use the asprin while watering also? Or am I just confused?

Jeeze!! EDIT: And do you have an opinion as to how long the mixture is viable?


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## zipflip

i wondered the same thing nvthis? im in full flower now wit buds  goin strong an i dont like teh idea of sprayin my babies wit anythin. and i'd like to ry this ot on a one my ladies thats seems to be pretty week. see if maybe it be liek a pill for the sikness. 
  i'm gonna try googlin roun more on it an if i find anythin else on this aspirin thing i'll post it up here for ya.   
  an if you serch round an find anythin let me knwo.


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## zipflip

any u plant scientists out ther make heads or tails of any this? we tryin to figure if it'd be beneficial to administer this same dose to our mj but in the watering manner rather than teh sprayin the plants method described...?

hxxp://www.papillonsartpalace.com/aspirin.htm
Aspirin for plants - research finding of the century??
Posted by ginger_nh z4 NH (My Page) on Fri, Jan 2, 04 at 22:55 

I read today in The Avant Gardener (January '04) newsletter, edited by Thomas Powell, that the USDA Agricultural Research Service has found that spraying plants with aspirin-like solution activates their natural defense systems against bacteria, fungi, and viruses. I then did a quick Google search and found this also from the Dec 2003 edition of Seedquest News out of Cornell U.: 
"Discovery of the salicylic acid-binding protein 2 (SABP2) gene, by scientists at Boyce Thompson Institute for Plant Research (BTI) at Cornell University, is being called an important step toward new strategies to boost plants' natural defenses against disease and for reducing the need for agricultural pesticides. Salicylic acid, the chemical compound found naturally in most plants (as well as in the most-used medication, aspirin), is a plant hormone produced at elevated levels in response to attack by microbial pathogens. According to a report on the Web today in the Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS Early Edition, week of Dec. 7, 2003) by BTI's Dhirendra Kumar and Daniel F. Klessig, the aspirin-like hormone is perceived by the SABP2 protein and a message is transmitted, via a lipid-based signal, to activate the plant's defense arsenal. 
Says Klessig, "Now that we know a key signaling protein in plant immune systems, we can work on ways to enhance the signal and help plants fight disease without using potentially harmful pesticides." 

Back to The Avant Gardener: Powell goes on to say that this may be "the most important research of the century" as it "could result in increased food production and the elimination of synthetic pesticides." 

He further writes "If you would like to experiment, spray a few plants with a 1:10,000 solution (3 aspirins disolved in 4 gal. of water), leaving other plants of the same species unsprayed. Tests with numerous plants have shown that the SAR activation lasts for weeks to months." 

It would be good to try this experiment in the coming season on older or heirloom perennial varieties (like the old fragrant garden phlox varieties),roses,and other ornamentals prone to disease. For agriculture, this would be a phenomenal finding. I wonder what effects the salicyclic acid residue might have on the environment if this became a common gardening/agriculural pracice and we were talking tons of aspirin-like compounds going into the environment? 

_ya know, im wondering if this would be beneficial especially if administering it durrin reveg of a plant? or it after like root trimming even . or any of the mj techniques that cause most shock/stress to plants._

i'm still googling. got stuck on this one for while lol


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## zipflip

well this article actually helps explain wat goes on insidie the plant chemically as result of it etc..

Aspirin Stops Plants Complaining 
When plants are attacked or damaged the chemical processes inside the plant go to red alert to address the situation. In the case of insect attack, plants produce specific compounds that produce insect gastro-intestinal distress. These defense compounds are triggered by a hormone, jasmonic acid, which acts like a shot of pain, kick-starting the plants defenses. But new research shows that just as aspirin can stop pain in animals, it can also stop the pain response in plants, suppressing their defensive response to attack.
The function of aspirin in animals is to block the production of prostaglandin, which triggers swelling and pain. Aspirin binds to the active site of the enzyme that is critical to producing prostaglandin. "It essentially renders the enzyme dead and prevents prostaglandin from building up and creating a reaction," said researcher Backhaus. In plants, aspirin blocks the production of jasmonic acid by similarly binding a critical enzyme. "Jasmonic acid is a hormone that is made when plants are in distress. It signals the production of plant-defense compounds -- it works a little like a shot of pain, warning the plant that it is under attack. It can also volitalize and warn nearby plants, a chain reaction that's like a warning signal to other plants," he added.

But unless you're a locust or aphid that wants to turn off the "neighbourhood burglar alarms" it's difficult to see what benefit turning-off a plant's defense mechanisms would have. Perhaps we'll have to wait for The Day of the Triffids to arrive to really make use of it. 
*hxxp://www.scienceagogo.com/news/19980702112426data_trunc_sys.shtml*


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## zipflip

now if i'm gettin this right. the apirin basically stops the physical signs of stress in a plant even when in situatioins normally where stress  would induce drastin physical symptoms....
  anyone else see it liek taht?


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## zipflip

here it is. i think wat they are talkin is mixin with the water at waterings and results of testing from different  milligram dosage or aspirin. 
*hxxp://www.colonialdistrictroses.org/id38.html* 
*[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Aspirin Cures Common Plant Headaches[/FONT]*
_[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Al Minutolo[/FONT]_
_[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Shenandoah Rose Society[/FONT]_
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The following is an excerpt from the Question and Answer Section of the February 2007 issue of _Fine Gardening_ magazine.  A reader asked if aspirin water promoted plant growth and prevented disease.  Rebecca Brown, Professor of Plant Sciences at the University of Rhode Island, replied:  &#8220;Although the complete effects of treating plants with an aspirin-water solution are unknown, studies have shown that applying salicylic acid (aspirin is acetyl salicylic acid) to plants can induce resistance to pathogens, environmental stresses and some insects.  This protection should cause all the plants to grow more vigorously.  Under extremely stressful conditions or those highly favorable to the growth of diseases, however, salicylic acid may not prevent all damage from stress or disease.&#8221;[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Salicylic acid is a naturally occurring compound in plants.  When a plant is stressed or attacked by a pathogen, this compound stimulates the plant&#8217;s internal defense pathways.  Treating a plant with additional salicylic acid appears to trigger the plant&#8217;s defense pathways in the same way.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]In the summer of 2005, Professor Brown directed a group of master gardeners with experiments on tomatoes.  The effects of two strengths of aspirin water and the commercial product MessengerÒ were compared to plants sprayed with just water.  MessengerÒ activates the same internal defense system as salicylic acid but at a different point along the pathway, which may provide broader protection.  Because of dry conditions, none of the plants developed any disease.  All of the plants grew equally well.  Plants treated with a solution of 250 milligrams of aspirin in 1 gallon of water and the plants treated with MessengerÒ yielded more but smaller fruit than the control.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]An aspirin-water solution of 250 to 500 milligrams (one or two regular aspirin tablets) of aspirin per gallon of water provides a solution similar to what has been tested; solutions at higher rates have been shown to burn foliage.  Any brand of aspirin will work, but plain, uncoated tablets dissolve best.  The solution should be applied every two weeks and may be used to water germinating seeds and new transplants.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]*Another form of salicylic acid that is gaining attention is willow water*, made from seeping fresh-cut willow branches in water.  Willows are naturally high in salicylic acid.  The exact amount of salicylic acid in willows is unknown, however, so the amount to use and the timing of application is less certain.  Willow water might be worth investigating as a source that could meet organic certification guidelines (neither aspirin nor MessengerÒ do).[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]While there&#8217;s no harm in experimenting with these solutions, keep in mind that aspirin water and willow water are not register pesticides.  All of these products need to be applied preventively, before the first sign of disease.  They may prevent infection but will not kill fungi or bacteria already infecting the plant.  It may also take two weeks for the salicylic acid to activate the pathway and protect the plant.[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] [/FONT]



> now where it said "*Another form of salicylic acid that is gaining attention is willow water*"...   i recall reading it somewhere that a wat to clone is makin this willow water an soakin your clones in water boiled with willow branches -vs using store bought root hormone/cloning gels...
> and talks bout spraying seedlings wit aspirin water...   it all makes sens as a good addition to the regimen of mj care if in fact it is  100% true and same wit mj. and only one way to tell is to try it.  well i got some seedlings started just come all up other day. im a see if i can find more info on dosage an determine how much to give etc an i'm gonna try it on couple. as well as try it on one of my 2 sickest looki females. i got 2 of same strain that dont look so hot right now ao i figure i'll water one wit the aspirn water and the other that was topped an has very small buddage goin on i'll do the spray wit that one.   and i guess we will see.
> i might not get to it til later tonite or tomorrow when lites on but i'll try remember to do before an after on the 2 girls im a test it on.


*EDIT:*


> *hxxp://www.helium.com/items/1288129-how-to-treat-houseplants-with-transplant-shock*
> I personally know of at least one person who used it on plants that suffered from travel shock. She used it every couple of days for about the first week. Other people have watered the plant with aspirin water. No matter how it is used, it seems to be beneficial for plants, and I know of no plants that suffered harm because of this treatment.


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## bombbudpuffa

Nice finds ZF.


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## zipflip

the first post ya put up really interested me as my girls are showin signs of shock all the time. but it more so the stress from medium i usin and the ph tap water shock they first went thru in beginning etc etc.  typical beginner flopps. but im on top the soil mixi gig tho.
  i think i got it figured out for my next grow. if ya got few minutes stop by an take look wat i got an  any opinions etc appreciated man.  http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42128

and i will do wat i was talkin bout with foin a test with this aspirin water on couple my sik ladies. but when i went in med cabinet i found no aspirin. just tyl;enol and some oxy's i have left over from a surgery.  i wonder wat'd happen if ya crushed an oxy in wit water for MJ lol  no jus kiddin .


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## bombbudpuffa

> wonder wat'd happen if ya crushed an oxy in wit water for MJ


You'd be having a MJ funeral the next day.


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## ozzydiodude

Hey bbp I am growing in a homemade earth box, would it be better for me to folier spray or add the aspirin to the water resivor(?)?


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## bombbudpuffa

I'm not sure about hydro OD. I've never burned a plant with aspirin so I would guess right in the res but I don't give any nutes with the aspirin and i'm sure your res has nutes in it, right? I'm just not sure about hydro and don't want to kill your girls.


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## ozzydiodude

Earth boxes are soil with a chamber in the bottom for water IMO it is a soil grow that draws water up from the bottom. Do you think I would be better off watering from the top of the soil or spraying folier?


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## blondeboy

Im growing my plants outdoors yet Im worried about bugs, snakes, and golfers. Besides aspirin, What kind of pesticides/ insecticides can I use to deter these creatures?


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## zipflip

i been meanin to do this test wit the aspirin but when i got the aspirin i got generic regular aspirin an bout every hit i get wit google on any this aspirin regimen for plants i hear the same thing (the regular strength aspirin 81mg)
  the stuff i grabbed was 0ver 150mg.
  i guess it pays to read detils on bottles before buyin lol. 
  but BBP, are you usin this aspirin reg. at all urself?  
  wats ur take on its use if you are? just curious. 
  and wat strength aspirin u been usin? etc..




> I&#8217;m growing my plants outdoors yet I&#8217;m worried about bugs, snakes, and golfers. Besides aspirin, What kind of pesticides/ insecticides can I use to deter these creatures?


hey blondboy... theres many diy insecticides on here  just serch for them. there a number of concoctions.
  im thinkin more long the lines that this aspirin water is more to eliminate the signs of stress that may occur from like transplant nut burns or watever shock/stress may happen. its somethin to do wit the chemistry in the plant and teh reaction to the aspirin. there many links i posted above that explain the more acience side of it i guess. check em out if you like..


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## nvthis

blondeboy said:
			
		

> Im growing my plants outdoors yet Im worried about bugs, snakes, and golfers.


 
:rofl: Yeah, me too Blondie, damn golfers purposefully hitting their balls into the 'rough'!


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## bombbudpuffa

> Do you think I would be better off watering from the top of the soil or spraying folier?


Sounds something like a hempy. I'd just water it with the aspirin with no nutes.


> I&#8217;m growing my plants outdoors yet I&#8217;m worried about bugs, snakes, and golfers. Besides aspirin, What kind of pesticides/ insecticides can I use to deter these creatures?


They sell stuff specifically for deterring wildlife. Get the stuff that smells not the stuff they have to taste. They have several different kinds on ebay. You can also use urine, hair clippings(human or dog) and soap.


> wat strength aspirin u been usin?


Reg strength, lite coat, 325 mg.


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## zipflip

u been usin 325 mg aspirin? wow. i thought i read a couple places to use the weekeest strength 81mg about?  but if ya plants aint dead or diein im sure it'd work. but do you use one 325mg per gallon or two gallons water BBP?
  cuz thats the same strength i ended up grabbin at wal-mart. iu just checked.


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## bombbudpuffa

> do you use one 325mg per gallon or two gallons water BBP?


I've used up to ten of these per gallon without any ill effects.


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## zipflip

no, seriously hey? lol. u relly used 10 in a gallon? or u just pullin my leg cuz every hit i got on google says one aspirin per gallon or 2 gallons and mostly all i read all stated somewhere round the 81mg per pill aspirin per gallon of watter or 2 gal's..? 
  im not callin ya a liar bbp. just makin sure you answered correctly is all man.
  i dont wanna give em an overdose on aspirin or anythin. lol


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## bombbudpuffa

> u relly used 10 in a gallon?


Yes, I have. You can start at 1 a gallon just to be safe and try different strengths. Wherever I first learned this though the instructions were 10-20 per gallon so i'm quite positive my mix isn't too strong just very acidic.


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## Exarmy

My question Is can you use this in conjunction with like soapy water (which would kill the bugs that are there)


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## bombbudpuffa

I can't see how that would be a problem Exarmy.


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## zipflip

Exarmy said:
			
		

> My question Is can you use this in conjunction with like soapy water (which would kill the bugs that are there)


 
that is wat it had said in few the hits i got on google was to mix wit tad bit a dish soap to act as a sticker. to keep the solution from beading up an just rollin off ya plant,


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## zipflip

i think ima try findin more readings on this aspirin water agin an see wat the majority says before i throw in 10 tho lol


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## 4u2sm0ke

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> Yes, I have. You can start at 1 a gallon just to be safe and try different strengths. Wherever I first learned this though the instructions were 10-20 per gallon so i'm quite positive my mix isn't too strong just very acidic.


 


Ive seen *Bombs* Buds..and am experimenting in the 10  per gallon myself..Thanks BB  for the thread..  and just so i got this right..I use asprin  when i water..and not when i feed?  right?


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## zipflip

well i'll definately be keepin an eye on your guys's results of it then. im not that brave to go that far just yet.  maybe one or two per gallon for now.but im gonna go grab me some RO water today an start my second batch i got cookin in the veg oven.  i cant keep up wit the $ for distilled water. i've spent over 50$ already. and when ya have to flush if ever  then it does hurt ya imo.
  i remember u an i discussin the ro water at one time 4u
  one quik question on it if ya dont mind. i know that it supposed to get rid all the nasty crap in water , but  if say ya local water that's the source of feedin the RO machine is crappy water to begin wit, i mena like alot of minerals. i know that ya dnt dare wash ya car wit local water or you'll have a white spotted car. lol
  would RO eliminate all that gunk as well? cuz thats wat im worried bout most

thanks  an have a great mornin ya'll


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## blondeboy

I heard about soapy water fighting off bugs, but I thought it was a joke.  It sounds like it would kill the plant.  Does it really work?


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## Exarmy

Yes it really works, Ive seen it personally kill hundreds of afids on my rose bushes in seconds!

What I did was add maybe a teaspoon to a water spray bottle, Shake it up (dont know if it helps but couldnt hurt), and spray your infeststation when they dry you need to shake your plant or blow them off,,,,,,,,I really like to get the dead bug off the best i can............then if you want to get some lady bugs from your local nursery that will help too.


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## bombbudpuffa

> i know that it supposed to get rid all the nasty crap in water , but if say ya local water that's the source of feedin the RO machine is crappy water to begin wit, i mena like alot of minerals. i know that ya dnt dare wash ya car wit local water or you'll have a white spotted car. lol
> would RO eliminate all that gunk as well?


Yes, it should. If you use RO water remember to add a CalMag supplement to it because it will leach them from your soil. I started using RO and MagiCal about 2 grows ago. I use the MagiCal everytime(except for with the aspirin water) and my girls seem to be responding to it very well.


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## zipflip

thanks for the tidbit bout the magical BBP  i woulda never guessed that. 
   i added bout a handful some dol. lime that has cal an mag in it to the  3 gallon mix i made up this mornin. ya thinkthat may help givin back the cal an mag that the RO leaches out the medium?
  i dotn understand y it be that it would leach it from the medium tho..:confused2:


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## bombbudpuffa

I'll try and find some literature. Something about the RO water binding to minerals because it has none, if i'm not mistaken but i'm not positive...i'll have to find something on it.


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## zipflip

i'll do some lookin too an try find somethin


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## bombbudpuffa

*Heres a lil something on it.

Ca  Calcium * 
                            Calcium is as important as N, P and K. Calcium is required in the roots, stems, leaves and fruits of plants. It is found in every cell wall and is required for the absorption of nitrogen. 
_ 
                          Sources_  Most nutrient solutions will have adequate calcium for general plant growth. *If a grower is using reverse osmosis water then they should seriously consider using Cal Mag Plus.* An application rate of 1-2 teaspoons (5-10ml) per gallon of water is sufficient to rectify any deficiencies. 
_ 
                          Deficiency_  Flower bud development is retarded, thus reducing yields, and fruit size is decreased. Roots die, leaving the plant open to root rot attack. Young leaves show symptoms before older leaves. The leaves can be deformed, and have yellow blotches which later turn into dead spots. 
_ 
                          Toxicity_  No visual symptoms; may cause magnesium deficiency. 



*Mg  Magnesium * 
                            Magnesium is found in the chlorophyll molecule. If a deficiency of magnesium occurs then magnesium is transported from the lower leaves to the new leaves. Magnesium uptake is affected by the concentration of potassium. If high levels of potassium are applied then the amount of magnesium should increase e.g. at the second week of flowering when blooming enhancers are used then Cal-Mag Plus should be applied. 
_ 
                          Sources_  Most nutrient solutions will have adequate amounts of magnesium. *If a grower is using reverse osmosis water then Cal-Mag Plus (1-2 teaspoons per gallon) should be used as all the magnesium in tap water is removed by the RO process.* For plants that are just beginning to show signs of magnesium deficiency then Green Stay can be applied as a foliar spray (1 teaspoon per quart) with Penertrator (2oz per quart) or added to the nutrient mix (1 teaspoon per gallon). 
_ 
                          Deficiency_  Older leaves (lower half of the plants leaves) show signs of yellowing. The yellowing occurs between the leaf veins which remains green. 
_ 
                          Toxicity_  There are no visual symptoms for magnesium toxicity. 



hxxp://www.bghydro.com/BGH/static/articles/0306_macro.asp


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## bombbudpuffa

I'll try and find out where I got the tip from but I can't find anything about _why_ you should use a calmag supplement with ro water.


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## zipflip

> If a grower is using reverse osmosis water then Cal-Mag Plus (1-2 teaspoons per gallon) should be used as all the magnesium in tap water is removed by the RO process.


but wouldnt the same apply for distilled water as well then, im thinkin...?
  cuz i been usin distilled water  almost all the way thru my current ladies in flower an they sem to respond better when i add a pinch or two epsom salt to the water between feedings


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## bombbudpuffa

> but wouldnt the same apply for distilled water as well then, im thinkin...?


Maybe, i'm not sure. If you find something on it i'd be interested in seeing it.


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## zipflip

im jumpin betwen google an here  as we speak for past 20minutes or so an i aint comin up wit nothin of the sort. closest i get to mag cal and ro water is some magical filter thingy you add to ya ro system, that i assume does put bak wat it lacks when it comes out liek you had said maybe...:confused2:


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## bombbudpuffa

> i assume does put bak wat it lacks when it comes out liek you had said maybe.


i'm thinking this is the case. The CalMag is used to relace what was taken from the water during the RO process.


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## nvthis

A quick word about surfactants and aspirin...

First off I would never do a foliar without a surfactant. That would just be a waste of time and material. Here's why..

There are many different wetting agents used through out the world, from regular everyday dishsoap, to agricultural oil, to diesel fuel. I worked for an agriculture company when I was younger and sprayed diesel fuel on many things (i.e. ivy, poison oak, etc.). Look on any local pest truck and you will find a bottle of dishsoap. Most pest companies use it _in every mix_. Not only will dishsoap help chemicals stick to the waxy exoskeleton of insects, but it also has it's own unique pesticidal qualities. 

Not all surfactants (an acronym for *'surface-something?-agents. *I don't recall the middle word. Sorry.) are appropriate for use on mj. Mj leaves, like most plants, have a waxy coating. Some more than others. This offers a natural protection against environmental threats and too much moisture loss. You may have seen some mj plants leaves are much waxier than others. Dark green shiny leaves of some strains would be a perfect example. You can see the waxy coating at work simply by spraying water on the leaf and watching it bead up and roll off. A surfactant eliminates this problem. It cuts the surface tension of water and basically makes water _wetter_. This is also important to the soil farmer. When soils become dry, they can aquire a condition known as hydroresistance. This means that no matter how much water you throw at it, it beads up, rolls off and remains dry. A wetting agent will ensure that a hydroresistant soil accepts water (and nutrients) much easier.

I would personally be very careful of what I used on my mj. I have read that most people prefer dish soap. I have also read that you should only use certain brands (i.e. Dove or ivory). I use a natural product from Earth Juice called Assist. I use it a lot! I know this is safe. It is made specifically for.... Yeah.

Anyway, a bit about aspirin. I finally found the uncoated today at the Canned Food Outlet. I did a little experiment with it when I got home. Here is what I have learned so far...

I tried two methods of incorporation. Letting the aspirin dissovle on its own accord, and pre-grinding. One thing I noticed right off the bat is the dissolved apirin was chunky. Kind of like... Coagulated. It wouldn't mix thoroughly in solution with the water. The pre ground went much better but had a tendancy to collect into 'balls' that were impossible to break up. There was a lot of material that just floated around. I solved this by adding a drop of dish soap (a wetting agent, what else??) It helped a bit with the dissolved aspirin, but not totally. It totally helped with the pre-ground. Full incorporation into solution. At least what I could see So I think a wetting agent is a must, even for root feeding.

I will be experimenting with this more and if I find anything else of interest I will share, of course.


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## ozzydiodude

On the 21st I water two plant with aspirin and folier sprayed two all four drouped then spring back to live and are looking great at this time. 

Thank for the info bbp and zip and nvthis


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## nvthis

Hey Oz, how many aspirin did you use? I was thinking about starting off with 2 325mg per gallon.


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## zipflip

i just started doin this finally yesterday on my new batch bein i had to do a quick repot into diff soil as the stuff i had was runoff ph of 5.34 even wit a **** load lime added. yikes. so i made diff mix that was ph without lime added 6.8 on the button. so i hit em with a quik spray and watering of both with aspirin water and did a drop of dish soap in the spray and it seems they all took fine to it. they wilted  a lil bit in few hours but this mornin i looked an tehy back perkin again. no idea if it cuz teh aspirin water or not but hey watever  they alive. lol
  i only used 1  325mg aspirin in one gallon was all.
  hey NVTHIS<<< u say usin  a wettin agen even when root feeding. u mean addin drop of dish soap to ya water when watering????

i do know one thing ithat aggravated me with this aspirin thing... tryin to raise ph after addin it. i had to add holy hella ph up to get it up 1 point even lol.


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## nvthis

You don't have to use a wetting agent for root feeding. It is purely optional. However I did notice that the aspirin seems to enter solution much better when a surfactant is used (actually, I couldn't get it to do it completely any other way). There are also other benefits but, again, it's your call As far as the dish soap goes, I would look around at a few gardening sites and see what the correct and effective dosage is and what is the right kind to use. Also, with the aspirin, I would mix your drop of soap, a small bit of water and the aspirin in a small bowl first, then add to the water you intend to use. 

I merely suggest this. I have no clue if this is the 'best' way to do it, but after trying many things last night, it is the best way I have come up with so far. Good luck!

EDIT: Sorry, one more thing.... Yeah, I used 3 and 5 and it dropped my ph to 4 both times...


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## zipflip

i did cursh it up first an mix it in small bottle of pretty warm water to dissolve it good first. an yes i noticed the same thing that it was hard to dissolve as well but i just kept shakin my bottle til my arm went numb lol. then i mixed it withtthe rest the water an shiook the hek out it again


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## Callawave

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> *If a grower is using reverse osmosis water then they should seriously consider using Cal Mag Plus.*
> Would this apply to a hydro grow?
> Ive filled my tank with neat RO and was going to add the nutes, run it for a few hours, then just check the PH. I was under the impression the nutes contained everything needed,  Calcium and magnesium included.
> (Great thread by the way)


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## bombbudpuffa

Heres a quote from a very good grower:



> ro water is raw water which is a solvent. the reason water is hard is because it physically pulls minerals from rocks and stuff.
> when you remove the minerals and other impurities, using an ro filter system, your left with raw water .
> which will start to re-absorbed the minerals removed by the filter. it will pull the minerals and nutrients right out of your plants because its the natural thing for water to do.
> 
> plants need calcium and magnesium and the other goodies found in cal/mag.
> 
> there is calcium and other trace elements in tap water but it might not be the proper size for plants to absorb properly in a hydroponic solution,
> 
> if you do not use cal/mag in a hydroponic solution with ro water your plants will go yellow within weeks.
> 
> 
> did you know that soon as you drink ro water it starts to pull the trace elements from your liver, if you drank nothing but ro water, after your liver is depleted of minerals it will pull them from your bones and anywhere else it can find minerals in your body. yse drinking a solvent will kill you eventually.
> 
> thats why coke and pepsi add minerals and vitamines to there bottled water after it run thru an ro filter.
> 
> ro water is fantastic for hydroponic solutions because it allows you to control exactly what your plants are drinking, your finest quality nutrients. theres no other nasty things in the water. but you must use ro water with nutrients, never ever as raw water.


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## zipflip

anyone out ther use RO water and not add any cal or mag to the water?
  if so wat was results , bad, good, any?


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## bombbudpuffa

I used to use RO water without it and didn't like it. I went back to tap water. I tried the ro again with the MagiCal and i'm strictly using it now. I've been having some of my best grows with it.


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## zipflip

well im glad this came up when it did. i havent started usin ro on my flowering ladies but did on my new ones in veg wit the aspirin it it only once so far.
  but i'll just continue wit distilled until i can get some the magical.
  but if ro water takes everythin out it then wouldnt distilled be similar as well. nothin in it?  or actually i thought distilled is even more free of anythin  more than ro water...
  idk but i been usin distilled this whole time witout cal mag. but only nutes. 
  maybe thats beeen one my probs as well wit my plants. i mean they arent lookin full potential. it always seems they lacking somethin vital, but yet they still keep goin an goin an aint havin any thc production probs either.  plenty suga on my babaies right now.


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## Funkfarmer

I have been using RO water for about 6 months and the girls are healthy as ever.I use gh flora nutes with fox farm adds(open ses,beastie,cha ching) and they get the ph just right, But recently since it takes sooooo long to get a gallon of water and there is so much waste I have been letting some tap sit out with an air stone bubbling for about 3 days give or take, and mixing 1/2 and 1/2 and everything is still real good. Thats my 2 cents.


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## Callawave

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> I used to use RO water without it and didn't like it. I went back to tap water. I tried the ro again with the MagiCal and i'm strictly using it now. I've been having some of my best grows with it.


How does the MagiCal effect the PH? Calcium has to be alkaline.


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## Callawave

smoky anda bandit said:
			
		

> I have been using RO water for about 6 months and the girls are healthy as ever.I use gh flora nutes with fox farm adds(open ses,beastie,cha ching) and they get the ph just right, But recently since it takes sooooo long to get a gallon of water and there is so much waste I have been letting some tap sit out with an air stone bubbling for about 3 days give or take, and mixing 1/2 and 1/2 and everything is still real good. Thats my 2 cents.


A lot of fish-keepers do just that! Drives the chlorine gas off too.
That's probably the best way to go Smoky 
Though I'd think that a hard water area would need less than a 50% mix for the sake of keeping the PH on the acid side. Especially if you're growing hydro.
I haven't used my Canna nutes yet. But they claim they'll stabilise at the correct PH. We'll see.
In the meantime I'm off to hunt down some MagiCal, but I'll bet its a bu**er to find in the UK lol


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## Callawave

zipflip said:
			
		

> i did cursh it up first an mix it in small bottle of pretty warm water to dissolve it good first. an yes i noticed the same thing that it was hard to dissolve as well but i just kept shakin my bottle til my arm went numb lol. then i mixed it withtthe rest the water an shiook the hek out it again


Get dissolvable ones. It'll cure that! :rofl:


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## Callawave

I couldn&#8217;t find MagiCal or Cal-Mag in the UK. It&#8217;s probably called something else over here. But I went at it from a different angle (fishy) and found this, which I hope may be of use to someone.

Kent RO Right
Specially formulated mixture of dissolvable solids (also called general hardness or GH) which includes major salts of sodium, magnesium, calcium, and potassium together with all necessary minor and trace minerals, together with a small amount of carbonate alkalinity (KH) to reproduce artificial river water. 
Provides natural water chemistry for the conversion of reverse osmosis, distilled or deionized water for fresh water fish and plants.
Provides a balanced electrolyte system. Useful for all fresh water fish, including Discus.
This is the premium dry formula used the world over to raise discus and other freshwater species. Contains no phosphates, nitrates, silicates or organic chemicals to pollute the system! R/O RIGHT is unmatched for quality and value!


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## bombbudpuffa

> How does the MagiCal effect the PH?


At 5 mil a gallon it doesn't effect Ph too much. I still have to raise the Ph of my RO water.



> I couldn&#8217;t find MagiCal or Cal-Mag in the UK.


Magical is made by Technaflora and CalMag is a Botanicare product.


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## zipflip

im understandin all this you all are sayin, but isnt distilled water even more less of the goods in normal water than RO water is.  the reason y i ask id cuz i been usin distilled this whole time wit no probs. usin it strait or mixin wit nutes. plants dont seem to be lackin anythin cuz of the water. or at least from wat i can tell.
  and wit that bein said an if distilled is more empty than RO water an i been usin it just fine so far then im assumin that RO would be fine usin the same as i have been usin distilled, right?  i mean without havin to worry bout addin anythin to the water liek teh magical with teh RO..?

its just that te people at store where i got the RO from said that ro is one step up from distilled meanin that distilled was more refined an more emptied of its beneficial stuff than RO water was...? is this true or does the dude know wat he's talkin bout even. lol

PS im growin in soil.... not hydro


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## bombbudpuffa

> *Distilled water*. Distillation is a process by which water is boiled until vapor is produced. This vapor is collected and cooled until it returns to a liquid state. Because minerals are too heavy to be carried by the vapor, the resulting water is completely free of additives. A desalination plant is a perfect example of distillation- salt water is boiled, the vapor is cooled and collected, and the salt and minerals are left behind. However, distilled water is also very unpalatable in its natural state. Desalination plants must also add some minerals in order to make the water usable for general consumers.
> 
> 
> Distilled water is perfect for applications where minerals and contaminants would cause problems. Distilled water can be used in irons for steam settings or as coolant for car engines. Because there are no minerals that can stain or build up, distilled water is mostly recommended for use in machinery and cleaning products. It is not particular good to drink distilled water, because it has a tendency to pull minerals out of the bloodstream and other areas. Distilled water is perhaps the cleanest version of bottled water available, but it is not good for human consumption.





> *Purified water*. Purified water denotes a process by which contaminants and/or minerals have been removed from any water source. It could be tap water which has been forced through a charcoal filter or water treated with ultraviolet light at the grocery store. The designation 'purified' can be applied rather broadly, so a consumer should not be swayed by its use on a label alone. Distilled water is by definition purified, but it is not a good water for drinking. Spring and well waters may have been filtered or deionized or ozonated, which would make them pure by a looser definition.



To answer your questions. I'm not sure if distilled water has the same effects as RO because i've only used RO. You could probably get by with just RO, no supplements, if you've been doing it so far. Keep us posted on your results.


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## zipflip

almost sounds to me like distilled and RO water are one in the same in this whole magical ordeal. as far as bein stripped of everythin an drawing stuff outta body or plants when drank or watered. just as was stated of RO.
  yeah i think im gonna try goin strait distilled water.
  i been also adin a pinch of epsome salt to water when i give strait water(w/o nutes) as well maybe it helps retain the magnesium that way ... idk.  but either way they both sound to have similar properties or watever  ya call it anyway.

well definately on the postin results. my journal i just started . my second batch in veg cab right now. i been usin strait RO water on now so far.
  link in my sig. (micro #2)


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## Hick

great thread and conversation guys!!...


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## bombbudpuffa

Nice avatar Hick...sexy.


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## Hick

TY BBP... I'm hoping it will attract more female growers to our forum!!!.. add a lil beefcake to the forum.. ya' know 








:rofl:


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## Callawave

zipflip said:
			
		

> almost sounds to me like distilled and RO water are one in the same in this whole magical ordeal. as far as bein stripped of everythin an drawing stuff outta body or plants when drank or watered. just as was stated of RO.


I think the problem with RO seems to be the electrolytes need to be replaced. 
But Im not sure if its a solvent as such, is it? Ive been making my tea and coffee with it for years and my kidneys haven't shrivelled.
My wife loves it. No scale in the kettle and no hard water scum floating around :aok:


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## zipflip

same here callawave.
  i use it for coffee especialy.  an i down like 2 pots a day an never had any health probs from it. but who knows tho.
  i also been tryin to google around here n there on this subject matter and still cant really find anythin that pertains to wat we been discussin as far as the cal n mag bein sucked from the plant/grow media etc from usin ro water. but i wil continue to serch as this really has me wondering yet.
  either way i took a chance and watered my current flowering ladies with strait RO water jsut tonite. so i guess we'll see if it s enough to do anythin really.  im also lil over half way thru flowering as well so bad efeects if any prolly wont show in time, but who kows.


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