# uh oh... anybody?



## sopappy (Mar 15, 2015)

Coco/ perlite 50/50....  horrible start with dirty coco but coming around, most look pretty good but this one caught my eye. I hope it isn't contagious.
About 1 foot below a 175W (actual draw) 210W LED 

View attachment uh oh.jpg


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## Kraven (Mar 15, 2015)

pH Fluctuations

by Nebula Haze

Quick Summary: Managing pH is crucial for cannabis plants to be able to take up nutrients through their roots. When the pH around the roots jumps up and down, it can stress the plant and cause brown spots to appear on the leaves. Spotting on the leaves as a results of pH fluctuations is more common in hydroponic setups (where the pH tends to go up and down), but it is possible it can also happen in soil. This seems to often happen when the pH swings too high.

Note: You can also get these symptoms from root problems or root rot!

Problem: Certain leaves on the middle or lower parts of the plant show tan or brown spotting, similar to these pictures:

Tan spots on cannabis leaves - caused by pH being off

This cannabis shows tan pale spotting on the leaves in a pattern that is unique to pH fluctuations - most often found in hydro, but sometimes in soil

Solution: The main way to fix this problem is to fix the pH problem that caused the spotting (more info below). The leaves that are effected will not recover, but once you fix the issue, the problem should stop spreading to other leaves.


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## sopappy (Mar 15, 2015)

Runoff measures an even 6.0 ??? It almost looks like I brushed up against it with something nasty.


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## Rosebud (Mar 15, 2015)

I think the led is way too close. !2 inches makes burn... Pull that baby up.


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## WeedHopper (Mar 15, 2015)

Yeah cause it seems to be on one side of the plant.


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## sopappy (Mar 16, 2015)

Rosebud said:


> I think the led is way too close. !2 inches makes burn... Pull that baby up.



Specs say I can go as low as a foot
Coverage Area:  24&#8243; x 48&#8243; @ 12 above canopy

but I know better than arguing with y'all..
I moved them to under the T5, maybe 8 inches to the canopy
and have the LED about 18 inches on top of the canopy of the two in the buckets.


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## sopappy (Mar 16, 2015)

Kravenhead said:


> pH Fluctuations
> 
> by Nebula Haze
> 
> ...



Rose thinks it might be the LED too close so I've moved them to 8" under the T5 and that's when I spotted two more.....
Last thing I check before watering is the pH and it's always 6.0 or 6.1
These plants have been through a lot, in shock for maybe weeks and then  multiple flushes... Here's a picture of the other 11 survivors, I think they look fine but I hardly have a trained eye... what do you see? 

View attachment 11 not bad.jpg


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## sopappy (Mar 16, 2015)

I forgot to add the latest two... it's not the new growth (which is encouraging) unless it's just working it's way up. 

View attachment 3 sick.jpg


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## sopappy (Mar 16, 2015)

Kravenhead said:


> pH Fluctuations
> 
> by Nebula Haze
> 
> ...



Hi again, Kraven....  where did you find this? I'd like to look at the pictures.


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## sopappy (Mar 16, 2015)

WeedHopper said:


> Yeah cause it seems to be on one side of the plant.



I did buy some H2O2 and noticed a white finger after putting the bottle away. Maybe I'll daub a bit on one of those green leaves.


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## AlienBait (Mar 16, 2015)

I'm a little rusty at this, so please take what I say with a grain of salt.  

When I saw your pictures, the first thing that popped into my head before reading anything was "Those plants are too close to the light."  Then you say that the PH in is 6.1 and the runoff is 6.0, that's actually not too bad.  So I am going to have to agree with Rosebud:  Pull the lights up a bit or move the plants down.  

The discolored leaves wont change back, so don't worry if they stay like that.  Watch the new growth.  If it looks good, then be happy.  

If the problem starts working its way up the plant, then start worrying and post more pics and check the calibration of your PH meter.

I'm not quite sure what you mean by, "I did buy some H2O2 and noticed a white finger after putting the bottle away. Maybe I'll daub a bit on one of those green leaves."  But I would recommend against touching the leaves with H2O2.

Hope that helps.


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## sopappy (Mar 17, 2015)

AlienBait said:


> I'm a little rusty at this, so please take what I say with a grain of salt.
> 
> When I saw your pictures, the first thing that popped into my head before reading anything was "Those plants are too close to the light."  Then you say that the PH in is 6.1 and the runoff is 6.0, that's actually not too bad.  So I am going to have to agree with Rosebud:  Pull the lights up a bit or move the plants down.
> 
> ...



Of course it does, thanks.
I picked up a bottle of H2O2 and later noticed it had changed the colour of the skin on a finger to white. I was wondering if perhaps I'd brushed up against the plant with it. The plan was to daub a bit on a green leaf of the sick plant. Moot now because it is more than one plant and I'm seeing more brown spots on some of the other plants.

I have raised the lights.... T5, about a foot, LED about 18 inches

and now I'm doing this
:watchplant:


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## Kraven (Mar 17, 2015)

Hope things turn around pappy


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## zem (Mar 18, 2015)

IMO transplant into bigger containers, add some expanded clay to the mix, make it more flushable. I suspect a problem in your medium being too salty and/or too wet, I have noticed the tendency of perlite to build up salt, and coco tends to be overwatered especially with smaller plants. when a medium becomes over saturated, you need to wait it off, a big setback and contradicts the main purpose of going hydro. I don't know, but to me, this scene wood worry me, as the plants seem to be following a backward course, one after the other, meaning that there is something in common that is causing this. I am not very "anal" when it comes to general growing but I am VERY "anal" when it comes to any slight abnormal thing that shows on the leaves and i would not just wait on it with no intervention


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## sopappy (Mar 18, 2015)

zem said:


> IMO transplant into bigger containers, add some expanded clay to the mix, make it more flushable. I suspect a problem in your medium being too salty and/or too wet, I have noticed the tendency of perlite to build up salt, and coco tends to be overwatered especially with smaller plants. when a medium becomes over saturated, you need to wait it off, a big setback and contradicts the main purpose of going hydro. I don't know, but to me, this scene wood worry me, as the plants seem to be following a backward course, one after the other, meaning that there is something in common that is causing this. I am not very "anal" when it comes to general growing but I am VERY "anal" when it comes to any slight abnormal thing that shows on the leaves and i would not just wait on it with no intervention



I had no idea HOW to intervene.I was going to just take the 3 healthiest and put them in to the buckets and let what happened happen. Would you mind having a look at sopappy's grow? You'll see the 5 buckets RDWC.
I have to clean the coco/perlite off 3 more and drop them in to the pellets which I can't believe isn't killing them... would you take the healthiest 3 or the sickest 3 for that?
With the remaining ones... are the clay pellets I have suitable to "add expanded clay" to the mix? What would you suggest? 30/30/30 perlite/coco/pellets
(I'm tempted to put them in soil)
Thank you for this.


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## zem (Mar 18, 2015)

have you not chosen yet in which medium you will flower them all? if you have a dwc system setup then go with that. i used to keep moms in growrocks for years hand watering, but some people have more dry climate and need to mix with something. anyway you go, you need to control the ph and ppm of your medium. in hydro, i would only go with a medium that is impossible to overwater, so that i can flush change the ferts and intervene as i please, and thus i chose flood and drain for almost everything, DWC is good too. I think that 30/30/30 mix would drain well but i cannot be sure as i haven't tried it. i think that the key is in your feeding, what are you feeding? how are you controlling ph and ppm? I certainly am not the guy to ask about soil, because i am a hydro guy all the way, and i would only advise you to master your hydro techniques and never look back


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## sopappy (Mar 18, 2015)

zem said:


> have you not chosen yet in which medium you will flower them all?
> 
> >>>Nope, it's been a nightmare. Whole sad story is here
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70733
> ...



>>> above


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## zem (Mar 18, 2015)

LOL sopappy i just scrolled through your other thread, and no, you are not a serial killer lol i have done much worse you know once i was growing my entire op full, 2x400w mid flowering, mothers overgrowing the veg space and clones overcrowding the cloning chamber and just then, one morning, i went in there and killed everything, drowned about a pound of bud in soap and water and threw it all in the garbage. this is a real story, who is the serial killer now? hahaha 
now for the answers:
100ppm is too low for those plants. 

yes, i used to hand water my growrocks with nutes every watering. every time i would see something unexplained that i couldnt solve, i actually take the mom under the sink and flushed it, then feed with fresh ferts, it worked every time. right now, everything is on timers in flood and drain, and i don't really keep moms any more, just clones

Ph for hydro is best between 5.5-5.8 6 is a just a bit off

yes certainly you need to check the runoff from coco. new coco may contain very nasty things like sea salt and what else, that raise your ppm with bad salts. i know some commercial growers who soak coco in calcium nitrate solution to remove the NaCl AKA sea salt

hope this helps


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## sopappy (Mar 18, 2015)

The race is still on... I had about 10 BerNARdin jars full of "beginner's luck" super duper Norther Lights. I never thought to burp them and yup, mold, lost all of it. 

The 100 ppm was coco runoff after rinsing, best I could do. PPM of nutes is about 1200.

I think you're right about bigger containers. This is picture of the sickest plant. I put it in bigger pot and surrounded it with clay pellets. Watering is awkward though. 

View attachment 100_0671.jpg


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 24, 2015)

Not sure what you are feeding those kids but any time you are growing in coco, you must use a calmag additive from start to (close) to finish. I have been using coco coir for years and love it, but it takes a little getting used to using it. The calmag additive is key because coco has a chemical function that occurs which locks up magnesium and calcium in a screwy way(without going into chemistry class) and by adding the calmag early, you prevent odd deficiencies from occurring. I am not sure about the first pics as that looks odd but I would bet that some of the later pics I can see some magnesium deficiency occurring. I don't believe that you needed to move them to bigger containers yet but they are close enough that it certainly wouldn't hurt. 

I would recommend that if you want to move them to hydro systems in the clay pebbles that you get some of the fabric smart pots to set them in first (or start them in the smaller smart pots) as this will hold the coco in place while allowing the roots to grow through the fabric. I grow with coco in a hybrid top-feed/RDWC system. I use the smart pot fabric in the bottoms of my plastic mesh pots to keep the coco in place. The pots that I use are about 2liter in volume (6"dia and 7" deep) but the mesh bottom pots allows the roots to come through and hang down into my hydro tanks(plastic totes). I hope this helps


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## sopappy (Mar 24, 2015)

Hi Hushpuppy, 
I'm still trying to get used to this place and figured I should post a sick plant question here but wrong again... I got off to a lousy start with coco, my fault, no ppm meter, first time with coco, it was FILTHY. I flushed 1200 down to 100 when they were maybe 2 inches tall. 
Darn darn darn... I wish I'd read your post before I transplanted adding the clay pellets....That fabric is a great idea! I hate perlite now, still trying to clean up the pellets, THEY BOTH FLOAT!

Rosebud... I'm sorry, I made another mess here... can you move these posts to my grow thread
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70733
or not, that's okay too.
Maybe I'll just finish off my jug of Power Thrive and leave you guys alone. Or maybe the plants will find out where I sleep and take care of this themselves.


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## Hushpuppy (Mar 27, 2015)

Hang in there my friend.  This MJ growing has a long learning curve to it that a lot of people don't expect it to have. You have to understand the plant as MJ is a very "need specific" creature. If you haven't already bought a book, I recommend that you buy one. I think this is an excellent book to begin with for getting a good understanding of the "theory of operation" of MJ: [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Cannabis-Grow-Bible-Definitive-Recreational/dp/1931160589/ref=sr_1_12?ie=UTF8&qid=1427486839&sr=8-12&keywords=marijuana+books[/ame]
If you will read this book, you will get a better understanding of how and why MJ does what it does. I would recommend Clark's Marijuana Botany but that is a text book that is challenging to read unless you like that kind of reading. When you read these books though keep in mind, they will give singular methods many times for growing and there is no single right method for successful growing. Take the info as a good source of theory for the proper functioning of MJ but not gospel on methodology.


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## Kraven (Mar 27, 2015)

Well put hushpuppy, if you have plants but no books your heading in the wrong direction. Pappy hang in there, your gonna get this I promise. Green mojo your way man.


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## sopappy (Mar 27, 2015)

Kravenhead said:


> Well put hushpuppy, if you have plants but no books your heading in the wrong direction. Pappy hang in there, your gonna get this I promise. Green mojo your way man.



haha, well, I'm not a quiter, I 'm just really uncomfortable with what I'm doing to this beautiful plant. I'm culling the herd and chucked two more last night, emptied the buckets and getting my plugs, distilled water, solo cups, and saran wrap ready for two more into the buckets... I'll be glued to your next grow thread!


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## Kraven (Mar 27, 2015)

Glad you'll follow. Thanks  I just dropped the bean 20 minutes ago. You just keep hanging in there, your gonna out grow me one day


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## sopappy (Mar 28, 2015)

Hushpuppy said:


> Hang in there my friend.  This MJ growing has a long learning curve to it that a lot of people don't expect it to have. You have to understand the plant as MJ is a very "need specific" creature. If you haven't already bought a book, I recommend that you buy one. I think this is an excellent book to begin with for getting a good understanding of the "theory of operation" of MJ: http://www.amazon.com/dp/1931160589/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> If you will read this book, you will get a better understanding of how and why MJ does what it does. I would recommend Clark's Marijuana Botany but that is a text book that is challenging to read unless you like that kind of reading. When you read these books though keep in mind, they will give singular methods many times for growing and there is no single right method for successful growing. Take the info as a good source of theory for the proper functioning of MJ but not gospel on methodology.




I think I have a pdf of that grow bible (or one of a similar name) and several others but I've read far too much and watched too many videos. Now I get confused and reactionary when things go awry and look for the 'quick fix'. You may have noticed that dumb mythbusters thread I started trying to solve some of my contradictions but you've hit the nail on the head with "no single right method" and I'll have to stop looking for that.
I've been too paranoid to join a place like this but I'm finding it's the best move I've made so far.  If only I could have one problem at a time but it never seems to work that way. 
I'm settling down now as there is growth down there now but I do appreciate you keeping an eye on me, and thanks for your observations, very true!


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## WeedHopper (Mar 28, 2015)

Not to worry my Friend,,we ALLLLLLL,,,go thru trial and error growing our Girls. You arnt the only one thats had problems.  Lol
i bet ya everybody can give ya accounts of thier issues,,,Hell thats how most of us found MP. I started out in a fridge with CFLs for Christ sake and didnt know crap. I had 3 poor little plants that were getting there butts kicked by my dumb ***. Lol


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## sopappy (Mar 28, 2015)

WeedHopper said:


> Not to worry my Friend,,we ALLLLLLL,,,go thru trial and error growing our Girls. You arnt the only one thats had problems.  Lol
> i bet ya everybody can give ya accounts of thier issues,,,Hell thats how most of us found MP. I started out in a fridge with CFLs for Christ sake and didnt know crap. I had 3 poor little plants that were getting there butts kicked by my dumb ***. Lol



That is a great idea for a thread, WH, the lighter side of pot growing...
I  was using rigid foam as trays for 6 plants (I found I often felt like a  baker putting loaves of bread in to an oven) I found it handy with  similar size plants on the same tray. I could adjust height under the  lamp sitting them on milk crates (there was some overlap as the crates were smaller but it worked fine and I thought I was clever)
One day I  pick up a plant from one end of the tray and threw it off balance. It  was right next to a big tub I used for water... sploosh! as they  started falling in to the tub. I had 1 in hand, caught another one as it fell but 2 went right in to the drink, and 2 hit the floor, all the while  me yelling at the gods and calling myself names.


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## WeedHopper (Mar 28, 2015)

:rofl:


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## MR1 (Mar 28, 2015)

I blame it on the cups, bottoms are too narrow , top heavy and too easy to tip over. :fly:


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## Rosebud (Mar 28, 2015)

Fun thread you guys, yes, WH we do need a lighter side to growing...


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