# tga/subcool strain choices



## loolagigi (Dec 28, 2009)

hello, i grow in a 3x3x5 cabinet powered by 1 400 hps. i want to buy a strain from tga, but as i want potency, i also want a decent yield due to the fact i grow dwc, and can only fit 2 max plants in there, preferably one plant with lots of topping, and super cropping. finish time is not a issue, i just am looking for 1 strain that stays bushy with training, and has nice potency and yeild. never grew any of his strains but boy do i want to. thanks again, and happy new year to all.


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## Locked (Dec 28, 2009)

I can't speak on yield or potency since I hve not grown any of subs strains but his Pandoras Box is on my short list for next grow...I hope you put up a GJ when you find a strain of his to grow...I will pull up a chair for sure...


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## Funkfarmer (Dec 28, 2009)

check this out, I have never grown it but if i were to choose this would be the one for sure.


  Chernobyl
Trainwreck X Trinity X Jack the Ripper

When I came out west I started on a Quest for the best Trainwreck cutting I could find. I was not impressed with the Arcata cutting as it was to tall to slow and to bi-sexual for my taste. I had written off this legendary strain until I came across an amazing plant discovered by Smokescreen. Found inside a bag of Dank of the few seeds found one female exhibited all the traits of the famous wreck without producing a single male stamen even late into budding. The complex late coloring is a thing of beauty and the potency of this mother is epic. Extremly potent smoking just a few bowls is an adventure in repertory failure and flat lining your brain waves. We decided to combine this incredible female with the genetics of Jack the Ripper. 

Indoor flowering 65 days



this is from hemp depot


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## Locked (Dec 28, 2009)

That sounds like some awesome smoke smoky.,..


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## Funkfarmer (Dec 28, 2009)

OMG how can you go wrong with train wreck and jack the ripper?


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## Mutt (Dec 28, 2009)

smoky anda bandit said:
			
		

> OMG how can you go wrong with train wreck?





> all the traits of the famous wreck without producing a single male stamen even late into budding



every grow except the occasional lucky one like subcool got had that nasty habit of popping naners. I hope he did some mild light stressing to make real sure the trainwreck didn't show itself. Heard a many say "trainwreck....yep it was a wreck alright" just ask Hick about his full scale wreck


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Dec 29, 2009)

Im currently growing Qleaner(just broke ground a few days back)...  Its Jacks Cleaner f1 x Purple Urkle x Space Queen....  60-70 days for flowering...  it also says yeild is medium to heavy...

I originally PM'd Sub about this strain and Jacks Cleaner 2...  He said the JC2 is very picky and you will need to find the one that doesnt herm and keep it...  He also said that the Qleaner was the best strain he had goin at the minute...

Heres a couple pics of the Qleaner....


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## Mutt (Dec 29, 2009)

> He said the JC2 is very picky and you will need to find the one that doesnt herm and keep it



isnt that his job? So he admits that he is sending out herm stock? hmmmmmmm
listen I ain't bashing the guy...but if flip down money I expect it to be stable and NOT herm.
I understand any MJ plant under enough stress will herm. but to have it "picky" as he calls it says he knows that it is easily prone to hermie. Which to me by selling them he is polluting the gene pool.


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Dec 29, 2009)

Mutt   I was pretty bummed when he told me that the JC2 was a picky strain...  I agree that it sucks...  and i have put those in the bank for a later date...  Im gona keep my fingers crossed the the Qleaner wont be picky and that i can isolate a purple pheno lady....


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 29, 2009)

I must say I think it is crap to!  I will say that at least he admitted to it, rather than let you find out for yourself...I know I just scratched JC2 off my list, now it makes me wonder what other of his strains will do this...I was going to order some gear from him to...now I'm scared to.  Hopefully he will see this thread and give us some info and reasoning on this.  

I do think it is to be commended that he admitted to it, cause we all know that alot of these breeders are chucking them out without offering this info.  I know that he uses C99 genetics, and closely related genetics, and this strain is known for NOT hermi'ing even under extreme stress...so I guess I would go with one of his strains that has these genes in them.  Man...after reading that...it really bums me out about the hermi thing...I'm really not sure I want to grow out any of this stuff now...and I been drooling over some of it since I got his book, and been looking forward to growing some out.  I hope he responds to this thread!


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 7, 2010)

LF   I have the PM saved ill copy and paste it...


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 7, 2010)

Hey guys...  Heres the reply that Sub sent me to the PM...  His comments are in italics...

Originally Posted by JustAnotherAntMarching
Hey Sub Congrats on your covers, write ups and amazing strains... They all seem A+...

Ive been really eyeballin that Qleaner and would love if you could give me just a few minutes time and share some first hand info on the strain...? 

It says it flowers in 60-70 days..? is that accurate? 

_The majority of the female variations deff fall in that time frame the one unusual fem we nicked lance Armstrong that is on the cover of WCC was really hazy and went 9 weeks but she was really worth the extra time you will find with c02 most females finishing just after 8 weeks_



How is the yield per sq/meter?

_No clue bro we dont weigh things in the med scene BUT my boys down south report its a fast grower big *** thick buds and I would say top the strain as my buds were so big I had a small amount of bud rot about 6" below the crown due to the density of the cola._

How rare is that purple/white pheno, the plant the sellers have pics posted of? Will i find 1 out of 20? or will colder temps cause the color more?

_Everyone I know reported a purple shade in a single pack of ten_





I also currently have some of your Jacks Cleaner 2... Anything special to keep an eye out for with that beauty?


_She is picky hates stress and can u need to find the best repersentation of my f1 that has no nanas which is not hard I did so again in a 10 pack_
Sub


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## Mutt (Jan 7, 2010)

> She is picky hates stress and can u need to find the best repersentation of my f1 that has no nanas which is not hard I did so again in a 10 pack


nuff said for me.....


> I did so again in a 10 pack


what about a pack of 20 or 30 or 40?
that is not a true test...i'm sorry in the begining when he first came about I was very intrigued with his gear....but wait watch and you'll see....the truth.



> f1 that has no nanas


no you won't...they ussually show there ugly heads in F2 and F3. They shoulda been run down past F3 before releasing with mild stress testing along the way. Just my 2 cents worth.
I'll leave this thread alone now as I don't want to step on any toes..


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## Hick (Jan 7, 2010)

...  wait a minute!.... we have now stooped to _admitting_ propogating *"known"* hermie genetics....AND _selling_ them for good money??? :doh: 
Expecting the *grower* to _weed_ through a batch of seeds for  *SINGLE* pheno that does NOT hemie... :huh: 
and people are actually gullible enough to _"PAY"_ for them.. 
WHAT AM I NOT GETTING???


....wait.... *f1*....???  :confused2:....


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 7, 2010)

Hick   Unfortunately i purchased the JC2 before i asked Sub about it...  I agree it sucks!! And that is def the main reason that i put them on the back burner...  I cant take the risk of putting these into my grow and ruin everything else ive been working soooo hard on...

I just wanted to  show everyone the PM so they didnt think i was lying about what he said or spreading false rumors... All those words were either Sub's or whoever monitors his account so...?  I do still have the PM saved...


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## subcool (Jan 7, 2010)

No one monitors my account
JC2 is loved and cherished my many as the most potent cannabis you can find that is why its still around. If you waiting to grow JC2 because of a small percentage of herm traits I can give you a list of 100 strains that perform much worse. Its is amazing medicine that works wonders on nerve damage and spinal problems nothing else seems to do what it does.
generally when I see a thread on JC2 and someone has had a prob 5 more people chime in to say they did not and its the best weed theve ever grown.
Any grower with a modicum of talent should have no problems with JC2 and while yes I only tested 10 seeds at the same time we had close to 500 seeds run with very litle problems it simply cant take any stress what so ever this is also true with the f1 mom.
We have spent the last 2 years working on a new more stable JC cross called Kaboom and the results look promising but it will be awhile before it clears testing.
Make a mointain out of a mole hill if ya want we stay sold out of JC2 and anyone that ever feels slighted just has to contact me for a replacement thats the way its always been.
JC f1 is not an easy plant to grow nor is JC2 but its certainly worth the effort for these that understand what there looking for.
Out of a few thousand people that have grown the JC2 I have had less than 5 complaints and thats a very good track record IMO.

The 3 females I saved from my test grow are still grown today by local med growers who hold it very high in there collection.
We have dozens of strains that exhibit zero herm traits but they do not have the medicinal properties of JC2.
That additional work required is well worth it to those that need its THC profile.

Sub


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 7, 2010)

Sub   First: Thanks for the reply to this thread...  

Second: I know you have to be a very busy person... Which is why i said that those words were either yours or someone who monitors your accounts... I was not accusing you of having someone monitor you account...? I was just stating what i knew, which was I got a response from you or someone who represents you...

Third: I asked if there was anything special to look for in your JC2...  Heres the exact quote...  

"I also currently have some of your Jacks Cleaner 2... Anything special to keep an eye out for with that beauty?


She is picky hates stress and can u need to find the best repersentation of my f1 that has no nanas which is not hard I did so again in a 10 pack
Sub"

Your response to me was that the special one is the "f1 that has no nanas"...?  

I really dont see how i turned a mole hill into a mountain _when you the breeder_ is telling me the special one is the one with no nanas....?


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## subcool (Jan 7, 2010)

I think thats kinda obvious to be honest and the mistake I can see that I made now is the short answer I gave ya it didnt help alot.

Id say the line herms much much less that la con so rate it there 
Its easy to get several amazing keepers with JC2 I did and I have a folder of others than did as well but its listed as an advanced strain becuase out of say 6 females 2 will outright herm early and easy to spot and out of the other 4 at least 2 if not 3 would be monkey food free thats from multiple tracing on the line so when someone ask me about it I point blank let em know what I know.
JTR has a similar medicinal effect and much more stable but it dosn't have the same THC profile and thats what people want in JC2

Like this cat

_Sub,

Just a note to tell you how pleased I am with your Jacs Cleaner 2. Man did you get it right when you bx'd this one. I get such a friggin grin and good buzz that I have to say this may be my new TGA favorite.

I got lots of large triangular buds with perhaps the frostiest plants I have ever grown. The yield was incredible and the smell.......total lemons. Fresh lemons, tarty lemons but all lemons. Every watering left me with sticky lemmony arms...lol._

I have people all over the world that have nerve damage and swear its the only cure so we keep the line for thoese people.

Sub


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Jan 7, 2010)

Sub   I def agree that the brief answer made things alittle unclear...  Thanks again...


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## Mutt (Jan 7, 2010)

Subcool, you just gained props with me by addressing this. The reason some of us older growers get our undies in a wad is that...many med growers depend on breeders to work and test the strain. hermies can and will devastate a run quick and painfully. I understand that maybe that particular pheno is what certain medical peeps need. But upon the actual selling description that should be stated clearly that even the mother that created this pheno is easily stressed to hermie...which says that any stress will bring the obvious trait out.


> it simply cant take any stress what so ever this is also true with the f1 mom.





> 6 females 2 will outright herm early and easy to spot



What sent me back was that they are getting sold off and the only way take for example "justanotherantmarching" the only way he found out was after the fact in a PM. Info like this should be clearly stated prior to purchase.

Advanced growing means that it will be fert picky or extra long flower times. Not easily prone to hermie. Also many local medical growers will use base seed bank bought stock to work with and outcross to work with there particular patients. Without knowledge of this hermie tendency it can really bite them in the rear and trash years of there own work down the road.

Thanks for chiming in subcool and giving everyone the info on the strain.


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## Locked (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanks for clearing that up sub...I was going to go with your Pandora's box but I think I might go with JC2 now...I definitely will want to grow it out before it gets warm out again and the temps in my tent get on the high side...


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## subcool (Jan 7, 2010)

Mutt said:
			
		

> Subcool, you just gained props with me by addressing this. The reason some of us older growers get our undies in a wad is that...many med growers depend on breeders to work and test the strain. hermies can and will devastate a run quick and painfully. I understand that maybe that particular pheno is what certain medical peeps need. But upon the actual selling description that should be stated clearly that even the mother that created this pheno is easily stressed to hermie...which says that any stress will bring the obvious trait out.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Long before a strain is released we document the test grows and I spell out everything with pictures and arrows and color glossy photo's as Arlo would say. This is very old news to most that follow my work and a reason JC2 has a narrow following I have had to many growers run her with zero problems a ratio so huge I am confident in the cross as it stands.

Sub


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## iamtd (Jan 8, 2010)

Good to meet you sub. Since your here. I'm having trouble chosing between Vortex and Jilly Bean. Any personal insight?

Also, this will be my first time ordering seeds. Needless to say I have been trawling attitude and your seeds are the only ones that interested me at all. So thanks I guess.

td


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 8, 2010)

so sub are you saying that once you find the keeper, that this one can take stress, or are you haveing to constantly walk on eggshells with her?  I too am glad that you showed up to clear the air, and I guess if people are willing to take the risk with her, then thats their business.

I do have to agree with Mutt on letting people know this info though, I have heard nothing about it until JAAM posted it here, and quite frankly, I was disapointed, because I was very close to makeing an order.  So this is not common knowledge, nothing in your book about JC2 says anything about this "pickyness",  In fact here is a quote from your book pg 96 about the genetics, I guess I find this a little misleading, especially the last sentence.  

" I created "The Duece" using the F1 Jacks Cleaner mother and our Jack the Ripper (JTR) male that we used to create The Third Dimension.  The goal with this cross is to replicate the traits of the mother we like, while eliminateing the traits we don't want.  We knew that the JTR male added a lemon flavor to the Apollo-13 in the Third Dimension cross as well as a more sativa dominance and these are absolutely the traits we wanted to lock down.  We also knew that the Third Dimension does not show any indication of hermaphroditism so the JTR male would not pass this trait to "the Duece".

There is also nothing in the book about the mother haveing hermi traits.  You state in your book that "many now consider her the holy grail of cannabis."  I don't get how a plant that produces herm's could ever come close to "the holy grail", I don't care how good she smokes.  So since I can find nothing in your book about these herm traits I'm wondering where one finds the arrows with these pretty glossy pictures that you speak of.

I guess I'm still confused..your right you could point out many other strains out there that have these characteristics...way too many...that doesn't make it right.  But I guess advertising that a strain has hermi tendencies doesn't sell seeds either, does it?  Really if it is that good, why not put the extra time and effort into it to stabalize it?  I'm not a breeder, so I'm not knocking your work either...I just don't understand.

I have this mental image of someone with nerve damage trying to clean the seeds out of their buds....and it isn't a pretty picture.


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## subcool (Jan 12, 2010)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> so sub are you saying that once you find the keeper, that this one can take stress, or are you haveing to constantly walk on eggshells with her?  I too am glad that you showed up to clear the air, and I guess if people are willing to take the risk with her, then thats their business.
> 
> I do have to agree with Mutt on letting people know this info though, I have heard nothing about it until JAAM posted it here, and quite frankly, I was disapointed, because I was very close to makeing an order.  So this is not common knowledge, nothing in your book about JC2 says anything about this "pickyness",  In fact here is a quote from your book pg 96 about the genetics, I guess I find this a little misleading, especially the last sentence.
> 
> ...



Ive kinda said all I am going to say I know at least a dozen growers that feel there JC2 clone is the best pot they have ever grown and there caregivers who take care of sick people.

The dominate state of all Cannabis is hermaphroditic its just a fact of our favorite plant it says so in the books and so does my 35 years of growing from seed.


As far as putting in the time I did 13 years of growing work and 3 prison sentences to put this hard to find clone in seed form. I have been working with this one clone for almost a decade now starting over multiple times while others used the strains created along the way to form entire seed companies.
I am extremely happy with JC2 as it stands if you havnt read enough great things about my work then simply choose another breeder please.

Sub


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## subcool (Jan 12, 2010)

iamtd said:
			
		

> Good to meet you sub. Since your here. I'm having trouble chosing between Vortex and Jilly Bean. Any personal insight?
> 
> Also, this will be my first time ordering seeds. Needless to say I have been trawling attitude and your seeds are the only ones that interested me at all. So thanks I guess.
> 
> td



Man lots of places carry my gear these days 
Attitude, Hempdepot, Bizbay, Cannaseur, Harborside, Bluesky, about 50 clubs in CO and the Attitude.
Bizbay is the cheapest place to grab our gear.

Sub


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## loolagigi (Jan 12, 2010)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> hello, i grow in a 3x3x5 cabinet powered by 1 400 hps. i want to buy a strain from tga, but as i want potency, i also want a decent yield due to the fact i grow dwc, and can only fit 2 max plants in there, preferably one plant with lots of topping, and super cropping. finish time is not a issue, i just am looking for 1 strain that stays bushy with training, and has nice potency and yeild. never grew any of his strains but boy do i want to. thanks again, and happy new year to all.


back to the origional post!


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 13, 2010)

Hey Subcool, after reading my post I realize how rude it sounded...I honestly didn't mean for it to come across as that.

I'm not a breeder, and don't quite understand all the work that goes into stabalizing a strain...so like I said I don't want to knock your work, and didn't mean to come across as judging you either.  (although after reading it, I can see how that could be concieved)  You offer alot of west coast clone only genetics, that people like me don't have access to (great lakes) so it's not a matter of choosing another breeder for me, but narrowing down which on I want.  I just had JC2 on my short list, and I'm just not wanting to compromise the rest of my grow, I'm sure you can understand that.  I'm just glad I happened to see this thread, or I'm afraid I would have found out the hard way...that is what I was trying to say in my original post.  I geuss I need to scower breedbay.  Thanks for the reply.  Again, sorry if that came across as rude.


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## nvthis (Jan 13, 2010)

Hehe, man this thread just went all kinds of loopy wierd 

Qman is a member of this forum and a personal friend of mine. He just wrapped up a grow of _Sub's_ querkle in _Sub's_ super soil recipe. After sampling this I can honestly say that I now know what all the hoopla is about. What a fantastic top notch combo! It would seriously blow the doors off of _at least_ 90% of anything top shelf in any of the clubs up here in NorCal. At least. Grade "A" all the way. The point of this is if y'all are having misgivings about it, then hang the JC2, seriously. Subs got a whole pocket full of equally interesting genetics waiting to be explored.

*Loolagigi-* I think the real challenge would be to find a TGA line that _wasn't_ potent. I would have to defer as far as yield is concerned, but my guess about that would be _quality over quantity_. I would personally be more worried about finding something with a controlled stretch. Either way, my bet is you can't go wrong! Good luck man.


*JAAM-* Sheesh man, remind me to never PM you!! lol   For future reference, PM's generally mean "private message". Emphasis on _'private'  _


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## Hick (Jan 13, 2010)

> JAAM- Sheesh man, remind me to never PM you!! lol  For future reference, PM's generally mean "private message". Emphasis on 'private'


..but it was/is "IMO".. _crucial_. "_relevant"_ and _ important_ information that either should have been included in the description or at the "very" least, presented to/for ANYONE buying the seeds. 
I say that without knowing exactly what information or description is provided. 


> She is picky hates stress and can u need to find the best repersentation of my f1 that has no nanas which is not hard I did so again in a 10 pack


I believe, is very _"relevant"_ ...


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## Mutt (Jan 13, 2010)

Hick said:
			
		

> I say that without knowing exactly what information or description is provided.


Here ya go  Just FYI



			
				Cannabis strain guide for JC2 said:
			
		

> *If you follow my work at all you know JC is my favorite breeding mom.* I can use her to test males or increase the potency of any strain. I truly feel it&#8217;s the most dominant strain I have ever worked with. She is also the most potent plant I have ever worked with, with no ceiling when it comes to high. We have used back crossing with the f1 to recreate her in seed form. *Test grows and severe stress shows the new cross to be stable* and extremely potent, a soaring 8-9 week Sativa Haze Also used for breeding work as males are JC dominant.


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 13, 2010)

hmmmmm...now I don't know what to think...that is definately misleading Mutt!  Also coincides with what I found in the book "Dank"...no reference to herms.  Thus the reason for my original question, where does one find these arrows and glossy pics that Sub spoke of in an earlier post to this being well documented...from his response, I guess it's up to us to look through old GJ in breedbay...seems like it would be alot easier to clearly state vital info like that on the description at the distributors site.


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## nvthis (Jan 13, 2010)

Hick said:
			
		

> ..but it was/is "IMO".. _crucial_. "_relevant"_ and _important_ information that either should have been included in the description or at the "very" least, presented to/for ANYONE buying the seeds.
> I say that without knowing exactly what information or description is provided.
> 
> I believe, is very _"relevant"_ ...


 
True that Hick, but yes/no/maybe, it's still not a practice looked kindly upon by most and best just to avoid it if possible (unless blessing has been provided by the source) as to not develope an atmosphere of _sharing_ pm's in open forum where it could be viewed as cool or ok. I know, I'm just one dude, but it still gives me an uneasy feeling. Just my honest opinion....

On an other note, this thread _has_ been very informative..:cool2:


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## Mutt (Jan 13, 2010)

nvthis said:
			
		

> True that Hick, but yes/no/maybe, it's still not a practice looked kindly upon by most and best just to avoid it if possible (unless blessing has been provided by the source) as to not develope an atmosphere of _sharing_ pm's in open forum where it could be viewed as cool or ok. I know, I'm just one dude, but it still gives me an uneasy feeling. Just my honest opinion....
> 
> On an other note, this thread _has_ been very informative..:cool2:



Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that sharing PMs on the public side is very frowned upon...but when others money is involved esp. $75 per pack of ten and the person is/was a customer. And the post was not disputed by the sender, then it is a moot point. That is very relevant info to that particular strain that is being sold on a mass scale. I agree that question should have been asked in a thread and a PM sent to subcool requesting a response would have been a much better way to handle it (would have the answer been the same tho?). But I am sure that he was not expecting to see the reply he got and felt slighted at that moment. I probably would have done the same thing....after a PM back making sure that I did not mis-interpret the original PM response.


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## nvthis (Jan 13, 2010)

Mutt said:
			
		

> Yes, I agree wholeheartedly that sharing PMs on the public side is very frowned upon...but when others money is involved esp. $75 per pack of ten and the person is/was a customer. And the post was not disputed by the sender, then it is a moot point. That is very relevant info to that particular strain that is being sold on a mass scale. I agree that question should have been asked in a thread and a PM sent to subcool requesting a response would have been a much better way to handle it (would have the answer been the same tho?). But I am sure that he was not expecting to see the reply he got and felt slighted at that moment. I probably would have done the same thing....after a PM back making sure that I did not mis-interpret the original PM response.


 
Hehe! man, some mind boggling social protocols goin' on in there. I hear ya bro. The money definitely complicates things. If I have my money tied up someplace, I would do whatever I felt necessary to protect myself and my investments. Gets a bit sticky though through pm's. Especially with the whole accepted but difficult to separate or see the difference in "quoting" a pm or a simple cut & paste job.... Hmm. All to glad to be a rule breaker and not a rule maker!


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## Hick (Jan 13, 2010)

nvthis said:
			
		

> True that Hick, but yes/no/maybe, it's still not a practice looked kindly upon by most and best just to avoid it if possible (unless blessing has been provided by the source) as to not develope an atmosphere of _sharing_ pm's in open forum where it could be viewed as cool or ok. I know, I'm just one dude, but it still gives me an uneasy feeling. Just my honest opinion....
> 
> On an other note, this thread _has_ been very informative..:cool2:



and I agree. It could have, possibly should have been handled differently.


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## the chef (Jan 13, 2010)

Thread jack! Whoa! Hick up mighty late huh?


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## Dr. Robertsozki (Sep 13, 2011)

Wow Subcool takes the time to explain all that not asking anything in return SubKool U R my here!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! smoke much MOTA


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