# generators??



## 3rdbase (Nov 3, 2009)

trying to do a little off the grid.....was wondering does anybody know of a good quite generator with say 3000 watts...or more ....and has anyone used a generator with good success ...i figured it would cost about 100$ a month in gas........i know iknow why not just pay an electric bill cuz i dont want to be on the grid........ya know ive also looked into solar very complicated and not cheap....will invest in the future..


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## 3rdbase (Nov 3, 2009)

what kind to say run a couple 1000 for 12/12


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## Amber Dog (Nov 3, 2009)

I think gas will be up to $500 mo


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## dr pyro (Nov 3, 2009)

wow its gonna look more like a grow op with a generator running for 12 hrs each day.


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## dr pyro (Nov 3, 2009)

can we get someone to put a common sense button on this board


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 4, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> trying to do a little off the grid.....was wondering does anybody know of a good quite generator with say 3000 watts...or more ....and has anyone used a generator with good success ...i figured it would cost about 100$ a month in gas........i know iknow why not just pay an electric bill cuz i dont want to be on the grid........ya know ive also looked into solar very complicated and not cheap....will invest in the future..



No one uses a generator with good success--they are noisy, draw attention to your place, and are VERY expensive to operate.  You would need a generator with a peak output of about 5000W to run 3000W adequately.  There is no way that you can run a generator of this size for $100 a month--I would also anticipate about $500 a month in gasoline costs.  I don't know where you live, but a generator running when there is electrical power available will create a lot of suspicion.  

There is really no valid reason to want to be "off the grid" if you are only running 3000W.  Simply put, the power company does not care how much power you use (within reason of course) as long as you pay your bill on time and do not steal power.


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## dirtyolsouth (Nov 4, 2009)

..





			
				dr pyro said:
			
		

> can we get someone to put a common sense button on this board



Nope!  It will hang up the server...


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## ozzydiodude (Nov 4, 2009)

:yeahthat: If the thanks button made problems. A common sense button would fry the server.

:confused2: does common sense even exist any more?


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## leafminer (Nov 4, 2009)

If anyone does want to run a generator, do NOT use Hondas or other high-speed gennys that cause LOTS of noise and drink petrol.
Use a slow speed Lister type single-cylinder diesel engine coupled to a generator unit. Listers with a decent silencer can't be heard very far away, they produce a slow 'thump . . . thump' sound.


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## 3rdbase (Nov 4, 2009)

thanks ... ive done research on many of them and the new inverter gens...are as quite as a conversation or vacume,,,hemp ur right it would take 5000 to run 3000...if  you figure a 1.5 gallon tank will run 12 hours @ half load will give you 2500 watts off the grid at say 3.00$ a gallon would be like 135 dollars in gas a month....i dont know were you get the 500$ a month


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## 3rdbase (Nov 4, 2009)

the reason ..... why im asking is because i live with other people.... we all use power witch is hard on the pge tiered system....thats why im trying to find an alternative way of powering my lights..i wish solar was cheaper it would be better for the  environment  .


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## leafminer (Nov 4, 2009)

What is a 'pge tiered system'


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## greenfriend (Nov 4, 2009)

PGE "pacific gas & electric" charges for power on a tiered system.  for example, if you dont use much power, you will be charged at $0.07 per kwh.  If you use lots, you get charged $0.15 per kwh and so on.  when you are in the highest rate tier it gets expensive very fast.

but still i dont think it would be much cheaper to run a generator than suck it up and pay the man.  and solar is still super expensive (the panels on my house produce 5 kw/hr at peak production in the summertime, most of the time is nowhere near 5kw).  initial cost, about $40,000. so solar power could supplement a grow but it wont cover all of it.


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## pcduck (Nov 4, 2009)

If this is for a commercial enterprise I think the Feds gives grants for windmills or at least they did.


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## 3rdbase (Nov 4, 2009)

funny....at least someone understands the pge system.....dr pyro cant get it through his thick skull blasting me on other threads........saying its impossible to cost ..x amount of dollars i wonder about him and his common sense he speaks on matters he has no reference to.......dude please stop getting on every thread i ask a ? about discrediting the poster......ur starting to sound very childish sir...and irritating..


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## dr pyro (Nov 4, 2009)

you are funny think about this with alittle common sense do you think 1.5 gal gas is really gonna last 12 hrs come on now you really cant be serious are you?


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## dr pyro (Nov 4, 2009)

also your saying your being charged 33 cents a kwh ?????


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 4, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> thanks ... ive done research on many of them and the new inverter gens...are as quite as a conversation or vacume,,,hemp ur right it would take 5000 to run 3000...if  you figure a 1.5 gallon tank will run 12 hours @ half load will give you 2500 watts off the grid at say 3.00$ a gallon would be like 135 dollars in gas a month....i dont know were you get the 500$ a month



Sorry, but there is no way that 1.5 gal is going to run a 5000W generator for 12 hours.  Even the inverter type generators use approx 1/2 gal of gasoline per hour of run time at half load.  A buck fifty an hour times 12 hours a day times 30 days a month is $540.  And this is only 1/2 load for half the day. And they are really quite expensive to purchase.


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## Kcar (Nov 4, 2009)

A gal and a half will not last 12 hours
and yes, on the tiered system it starts at 11.5 and goes to 44 in my neck of the woods. Here's a little excerpt from mine...

Charges
09/05/2009 - 09/30/2009
Electric Charges $221.83
Baseline Quantity 215.80000 Kwh
Baseline Usage 215.80000 Kwh @ $0.11531
101-130% of Baseline 64.74000 Kwh @ $0.13109
131-200% of Baseline 151.06000 Kwh @ $0.25974
201-300% of Baseline 215.80000 Kwh @ $0.37866
Over 300% of Baseline 153.08485 Kwh @ $0.44098


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## 3rdbase (Nov 4, 2009)

yes:holysheep: but you know that already clownshoe


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## Growdude (Nov 5, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> thanks ... ive done research on many of them and the new inverter gens...are as quite as a conversation or vacume,,,hemp ur right it would take 5000 to run 3000...if  you figure a 1.5 gallon tank will run 12 hours @ half load will give you 2500 watts off the grid at say 3.00$ a gallon would be like 135 dollars in gas a month....i dont know were you get the 500$ a month



I dont know where you get 1.5 gallons per 12 hours?

Here is one that is probably too small and it uses 11.86 per 18hours at 50% load, so it way more.

hxxp://www.peakpowertools.com/Portable-Inverter-Generator-Pramac-4300W-Subaru-p/gpr04956.htm

So @ $3.00 gallon = $35.00 a day or  1069.00 per month.


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## smokingjoe (Nov 5, 2009)

dr pyro said:
			
		

> you are funny think about this with alittle common sense do you think 1.5 gal gas is really gonna last 12 hrs come on now you really cant be serious are you?


 
I used to run a 3 cyl lister diesel on about 15lts a day running 24/7 on our farm.

From memory it was a 7kva genset, an old school lighting plant with massive telescopic boom and 4 light truck tyres.

Depending on where you are you could feasibly run a decent diesel genset on bio-diesel and cost you very little.


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## Growdude (Nov 5, 2009)

Here is one that uses about a 1/2 gallon an hour @ 50% load so it would be more.

hxxp://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Cummins-Onan-P5550E/p3534.html

Only $915.00 to operate 18hrs a day for a month.


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## Kcar (Nov 5, 2009)

I was reading someone ran one of those big Lister's 24/7 for 10 years!
Just oil her up every day!


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## 3rdbase (Nov 5, 2009)

Charges
09/05/2009 - 09/30/2009
Electric Charges $221.83
Baseline Quantity 215.80000 Kwh
Baseline Usage 215.80000 Kwh @ $0.11531
101-130% of Baseline 64.74000 Kwh @ $0.13109
131-200% of Baseline 151.06000 Kwh @ $0.25974
201-300% of Baseline 215.80000 Kwh @ $0.37866
Over 300% of Baseline 153.08485 Kwh @ $0.4409 thats exactly what im sayin very expensive to run say 4 1000s ......as for the generators .... yamaha .. and hondas are kinda the same....but this is where im coming from run say  you run 2 lights on the grid and say you run 2 lights off the grid ....there are generators that can supply say ...5000 watts peak ...on a 1/4 tank for 8 hours and 12hours @half load  so one tank will run ur generator for 12 hours just at half load meaning 2500 watts 2/ 1000 or3/ 600watters.......idont see how a 2 gallon tank runs 500 or 1000 dollars a in a month in gas..............mind you im only talking about flowering phase so 12 hours of uses,,,,,,,most generator retail stores have the certain models specifications ....not to be mean but maybe you dont understand how much a gas and how much use you get out of a particular unit... cuz there all very different..:welcome:
*http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...5Y6GqseRDyrBcKQnA&sig2=VMYL9IpNEwNbk5uALBavSw*


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## 3rdbase (Nov 5, 2009)

kcar..........if you dont mind me asking what is your setup that ur bill is 220$..cus im very curious how people run multi 1000 watt setups  without paying 300 400$ ...unless there all growing in box grows wishing they had a fat setup up:**:and just trippin .....33$ per 1000 str8 trippin more like 80 too 100$....and if ur paying more than 44cents per kw than :holysheep:


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## Kcar (Nov 5, 2009)

First off that's not a month, it's only 25 days - the other 5 or six days was like 80 so it was 300 total or about 10 a day.

I had 1 400w hps(12h), 1 200w t5(24h), 1 64w t8(24h) 2 squirrel cage fans (24h), 2 150w hps(12h), 1 26w UV bulb(12h), 2 small fans(24h)

Now i've added a 600w Hps(12h), 6" vortex (12h) 1 more small fan(24h)
So we'll see where it goes from there.

On the up side, Nov 1 switched to winter rates (same rate just higher baseline)

Kcar


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## Growdude (Nov 5, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> .there are generators that can supply say ...5000 watts peak ...on a 1/4 tank for 8 hours and 12hours @half load  so one tank will run ur generator for 12 hours just at half load meaning 2500 watts 2/ 1000 or3/ 600watters.......idont see how a 2 gallon tank runs 500 or 1000 dollars a in a month in gas..............mind you im only talking about flowering phase so 12 hours of uses,,,,,,,most generator retail stores have the certain models specifications ....not to be mean but maybe you dont understand how much a gas and how much use you get out of a particular unit... cuz there all very different..



You need to read the specs of the generator, here is the best I could find so far, hxxp://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Yamaha-EF4500iSE/p1707.html

This is a 4000watt gen. so 50% load is fairly correct.

It uses 4.5 gallons of fuel per 10 hours at 50% load. Or .45 gallons per hour x 12 hours = 5.4 gallons per day or 162 gallons per month or $486.00 @ $3.00 per gallon per month.


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## leafminer (Nov 5, 2009)

Yu wouldn't want to use any petrol generator. Biodiesel can be made cheaply. Slow-speed diesels are much more efficient, require almost no maintenance.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Nov 5, 2009)

.44 cents a kw/h?

holybujeesus batman


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## Amber Dog (Nov 5, 2009)

I will take 10 of these magic generators. No, really.


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## 3rdbase (Nov 5, 2009)

kcar.. thanks man ive been getting :**:by alot of people on this site saying that electric usage couldnt be that high.....kw per hour cost... thats why im trying to figure a way to run my lights as cheaply as possible any suggestions.... iwant to run 4 600 watt digis 12/12......


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## 3rdbase (Nov 5, 2009)

what .... Biodiesel petrol generator. do you recommend thats quite


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## Kcar (Nov 5, 2009)

This sure has promise...

hxxp://www.generatordepot.us/5500watt-diesel-electric-generator-silent-1.aspx

11 hours at 1/2 load on 4 gallons of fuel (8hours on full load)


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## Growdude (Nov 5, 2009)

Have you thought about LED's 3rdbase?


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## 3rdbase (Nov 5, 2009)

ya ... ive studied leds and flowed them for the past year and a half... and dont want invest into lights that have a low penetration  level....sog is cool if u go that route but no need to fix a system thats not broken ....plus led tech is way unexplored in indoor growing ..very expensive and there is really no hard evidence that they improve anything ....than your ebill...ide rathe put my mony on a couple 1000s off grid....i figure with the setup i have now ... i could have the potential of getting up to 8000 lumens a sq foot... with the added light.....my co2 would kick bulloks.......but i need to add another 2000 watts some how........leds are kinda the first cell phone.....nobody knows if there really worth it initially ......what about you


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## 3rdbase (Nov 5, 2009)

kcar nice link.... i might read a little more .... but do you think those are better than inverters.......


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## smokingjoe (Nov 5, 2009)

One other thing I forgot to add previously is a modern attenuated diesel generator is a very quiet animal.  They are frequently used in marine applications on live aboard vessels and you wouldn't know they were on.

Electricity in my neck of the woods is around 6c per kw hour off peak and around 14c per kw hour peak.

Electricity bills of around $150-$200 per month is not uncommon.


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## 3rdbase (Nov 5, 2009)

what do you have runnin.... and what state


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## smokingjoe (Nov 5, 2009)

State = Stoned
I don't live in the US, on the southern side of the equator.  In $USD conversion would be about 13c for the peak supply.

Edit: as for running, 2 x 400 Son T, Mixflow fan & pump


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## Droopy Dog (Nov 6, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> No one uses a generator with good success--they are noisy, draw attention to your place, and are VERY expensive to operate.  You would need a generator with a peak output of about 5000W to run 3000W adequately.  There is no way that you can run a generator of this size for $100 a month--I would also anticipate about $500 a month in gasoline costs.  I don't know where you live, but a generator running when there is electrical power available will create a lot of suspicion.
> 
> There is really no valid reason to want to be "off the grid" if you are only running 3000W.  Simply put, the power company does not care how much power you use (within reason of course) as long as you pay your bill on time and do not steal power.


:yeahthat: 

Being from SoFla, I've had more than a little experience with gen sets and everything HG says is very close to the mark, especially the cost and more importantly drawing attention to yourself.:holysheep: 

Plus, for what you are talking about you are getting into diesel powered units or, at the least propane or natural gas.  Mucho $$$$$$ all.

Perhaps you might want to check out LED lights?  Still mucho $$$$, but much lower profile.

DD


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## primitive (Nov 29, 2009)

Wow, I'm glad I found this thread.

Does anyone here have any first hand experience running a 3K-5K diesel generator that can give some details on noise, smell, etc.?  

I'm spending my first winter in the mountains and just had my second lengthy power outage due to a storm.  My plants are fine, but they missed lots of awake time and fresh air.

So I need something to at least power my fans, some pumps, and just a couple of lights to keep the light cycle going, say realistically 3500w maximum.  Hempgoddess I saw you mention needing to buy one with a higher rating than you're actually planning to use.  Would a 5K be enough you think?

Also, does anyone know what accounts for the difference in prices of generators that produce similar wattage.  Like the two Growdude posted, all the ones I've looked up have ranged from $700 - $6,000 for a 5K diesel.  What accounts for this kind of price range?

As for what I need, gas consumption doesn't matter much since it won't ever be on very long. Noise just needs to be reasonable; I heard a few go on nearby when the power went out so it shouldn't raise suspicion.  The only thing that really matters to me is smell.  It will be vented properly and all but I just really hate that smell.

Any and all ideas welcome


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## DonJones (Nov 30, 2009)

Primative,

Like most things,the price on generators is an indication of the quality, durability and reliability.  Another factor is whether it is electric start, if so remote start and wired into the house for backup power.  The switching devices for standby power will cost you in the neighborhood of $1,000 or more without the generator.

Diesels will be quite a bit more expensive than gasoline and the less expensive ones will be noisier.

I have a 4500 GENTEC-- now Briggs and Stratton, that I have ran my refrigerator, freezer, furnace fan & controls(its a gas furnace), the electric igniters for the gas range, three TVs and lamps in four or five rooms all at the same time on less than 1 gallon/4 hours -- probably closer to 1 gallon/5 to 6 hours. 

I now have a jumper cord where I can sit the genset either just outside my detached shop or even in it, plug the double male ended cord into both the 20 watt plug in in the shop and to the genset and back feed my entire house without doing anything except throwing the main breaker to prevent phase conflict when the main power comes back on.

Instead of worrying about venting, run a 220/240 volt cord in through the wall or a window with a portable distribution box splitting it out into 120v circuits in side, preferably inside your grow area.  That way you can simply stat your genset outside, run the cord and then plug everything together.  Try to leave one or 2spots open to run the vital functions for your house, like refrigerator and freezers.  You will NOT be able to run an electric range without getting a very pricey, non-portable hardwired high wattage genset, probably diesel powers.

Good smokig.  If you need anything more just ask.


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## OldHippieChick (Nov 30, 2009)

Interesting tier system. We have the opposite tier here... First 600kw is at 13cents kwh and after that it drops to 10.5 cents kwh. I go just over 600 in spring and fall and almost double in heat of summer and dead of winter on my own, so in reality my grow power useage is discounted because it's over and beyond normal use. Crazy.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 30, 2009)

I have a 6500W gasoline generator set up in a small outbuilding just a few yards from the house.  Nothing fancy.  It has a pull cord (I keep an oil heater in the crankcase all winter and keep starting fluid on hand).  I also do not have any of the fancy switching stuff.  When I changed out my electric range for a propane one, I moved the wiring from the stove location and ran it to the shed.  This serves 2 purposes.  Besides having a 50 amp circuit in my shop, I can backfeed the house through this circuit *(your main MUST be shut off)*.  

I have had 2 instances this winter where the power was out for long enough to crank up the generator.


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## nouvellechef (Nov 30, 2009)

Interesting thread. I have a friend that built a new house on 10acres. He poured a slab with drain, think 10x10. He has a Generac or something like that thatd run off Natural Gas from a very large tank that's filled monthly. House is on electric. He kept them seperate for only that purpose. The generator is in a shed that has a baffle on the exhaust in the roof. It is very quiet, 10 yards from shed and 40 from house. It runs pretty much 24/7, I've never asked what the natural costs. But if it was ridic, he would pull the plug for sure as he is a prominent business leader in out community. If I had the cash for that, I would follow him.


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## primitive (Nov 30, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> Primative,
> 
> Like most things,the price on generators is an indication of the quality, durability and reliability.  Another factor is whether it is electric start, if so remote start and wired into the house for backup power.  The switching devices for standby power will cost you in the neighborhood of $1,000 or more without the generator.
> 
> ...



The Briggs and Stratton looks good. I also found a 10K generator that's going for $900, can I get you to take a look and see if there's any reason to stay away from this one.  AT 10K and a mere 72db of noise it seems too good to be true.

hxxp://www.generatordepot.us/gentron-pro2-10000watt-generator-electric-start.aspx

P.S: to all the non Californians, yes, our tiered system from PG&E is indeed truly f***ed.  I don't have a bill nearby to give all the exact numbers, but prices begin at .11 cents, then go up, up, up, until eventually I'm paying .44 cents.  I have a friggin legal size grow room with no Co2 equipment and am paying around $1200 a month for power.  And almost all of that is from the garden, because most of the energy sucking appliances in my house are on propane.  

For any Californians interested, the guys at my hydro shop have been trying to convice me to sign up for a program called PG&E CARE.  Basically, if you claim less than $30k annual income you can join CARE and the tiered system either goes away or is drastically reduced.  Apparently a lot of growers around here do it, but I'm really sketchy about it.  Like, namely, someone asking me how a customer using as much power as I do can afford it if I'm supposedly not making much money.  Is anyone here on CARE?


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## primitive (Nov 30, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I have a 6500W gasoline generator set up in a small outbuilding just a few yards from the house.  Nothing fancy.  It has a pull cord (I keep an oil heater in the crankcase all winter and keep starting fluid on hand).  I also do not have any of the fancy switching stuff.  When I changed out my electric range for a propane one, I moved the wiring from the stove location and ran it to the shed.  This serves 2 purposes.  Besides having a 50 amp circuit in my shop, I can backfeed the house through this circuit *(your main MUST be shut off)*.
> 
> I have had 2 instances this winter where the power was out for long enough to crank up the generator.



Can you give me the make/model?


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## leafminer (Nov 30, 2009)

I once helped  build a mobile radio station that had a 44 KVA generator set, truck mounted. Standing next to the truck there was a low hum, that's all you could hear. We silenced it really well.

Most efficient = diesel.
Most quiet = slow speed Lister.
A single Lister running at about 150 RPM will power a 3KVA  generator head.
It can run off biodiesel.
They last *for ever*.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 30, 2009)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Interesting thread. I have a friend that built a new house on 10acres. He poured a slab with drain, think 10x10. He has a Generac or something like that thatd run off Natural Gas from a very large tank that's filled monthly. House is on electric. He kept them seperate for only that purpose. The generator is in a shed that has a baffle on the exhaust in the roof. It is very quiet, 10 yards from shed and 40 from house. It runs pretty much 24/7, I've never asked what the natural costs. But if it was ridic, he would pull the plug for sure as he is a prominent business leader in out community. If I had the cash for that, I would follow him.



If this generator is powered by a tank that is refilled, it is not natural gas--it is either propane, diesel, or gasoline.  My generator is only 12' from my house (in a shed) and I cannot hear it when it is running.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 30, 2009)

primitive said:
			
		

> Can you give me the make/model?



I have a Generac.  I don't know the model number, but it puts out 6250 peak watts.  It is probably about 5 or 6 years old.  I don't have to use it much, but when I do, it's invaluable.  When I run the generator, I shut down the breaker to my electric water heater.  The generator will power everything else in my home without any problem.  We are talking approx 1500W of light, 300W-500W of growing "accessories", fans, air pumps, water pumps, etc.  Plus my normal household usage, lights, television, computer, microwave, coffee maker...


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