# carob molassess for magnesium deficiency



## charlesweedmore (May 4, 2009)

hi folks.

my plants are 30. day of vegging and i am pretty sure that 3 of my plants shows mg deficieny.
i grow organic sytle.
i use coco perlite peatmoss worm casts and 2 tbsp dolomite for per gallon.
i use biobizz grow for vegging with piranha,tarantula,voodoo,carboload,sensizyme from advanced nutrients and superthrive.

i cant find calmag,blackstrap molasses or something so the where i live.

i read that some users use molassess for mg deficency.

i could find here " carob molassess " .

please look at the analyze :



> mineral Analysis Results (mg / kg)
> amount of substance is soluble in water  (mg / kg): 68
> Sodium (mg / kg): 203
> Potassium (mg / kg): 7040
> ...


can i use that molassess instead of epsom salts or calmag ?

there are some other minerals in this mollassess such as Phosphorus,Potassium and sodium. are they harmful for plants ?

and i dont know whether the benefical microbes ( from worm casts,voodoo,piranha and tarantula ) in soil can breaKDOWN this mollassess so that my plants could easily take necessary minerals.
help me please

thanks.


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## maineharvest (May 4, 2009)

Have you tried Epsom Salt?  You can get it at any Walmart or Rite Aid or pharmacy.


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## Sir_Tokie (May 4, 2009)

I would think cal-mag or epsom salt would be better for mag. def...take care..


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## BBFan (May 4, 2009)

Charles-
Why do you think you have a mag deficiency?  Sounds like you got a lot of nutes going.
You're already using carboload- if you are sure you're experiencing a mag def, epsom salts might be best.
You may also be experiencing a lockout or problem with uptake.
Check your PH.

So is Faraday really dead or what?


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## Hick (May 4, 2009)

> 2 tbls of dolomite lime


...should also be providing plenty of mg. I think you maybe barkin' up the wrong tree charles.
*IF*.. it is an mg defficiency showing, it isn't because it isn't available, but because i isn't getting utilized.   I'm not a coco grower, but .."bio bizz AND piranha,tarantula,voodoo,carboload,sensizyme from advanced nutrients and superthrive."
My first impression is that you have waaay too much crap/additives in your mix.


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## DaddyLove (May 4, 2009)

use epsom salt..


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## charlesweedmore (May 4, 2009)

thanks guys for your comments.

i think it is mg deficiency because upper leaves are getting to lose their green color.. they are losing their dark green color.i showed picture of mg deficient leaves and my leaves are similar that.there is color loss problem on upper leaves ,not lower leaves.

and it is not a yellowing problem.leaves arent getting to yellowing,they are losing their dark green color and their color is getting to light green.

is it mg deficency ?

In addition;;

1) if it is mg deficiency,can i use carob molassess ?

2) if it is not mg deficiency and i use carob molasses,would that damage my plants ?

3 ) how much should i use carob molassess ? 1 tbs ( 15 mililiter ) for 1 gallon is ok ?

( 1 tbs = 15 ml ) 

as to calmag or something so; i dont live in USA and i couldnt easily find things  here .
epsom salts,yeah i can find here mg sulphate.but doesnt molassess  work for mg deficiency ?

i will stop using carboload when i add mollassess .

i checked soil ph  and i think it is about 7.0 . i used  aquarium ph  test kit and i meause runoff ph.
i have 13 plants and only 3 of them shows that problem.

@BBFan,
i hope he wasnt bro.i love my son but finding  the island is always more important than anything else for me .


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## PencilHead (May 4, 2009)

Chuck, try this link.  It came straight from Wikipedia so it must be true--JK.
It has the chemical breakdown of mollasses.
hxxttp://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=nutrientprofile&dbid=85


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## BBFan (May 4, 2009)

Charles-

There is absolutely magnesium in the molassess as you listed.  How quickly it breaks down into something the plant can uptake is another question.

I would still hesitate to give your plants anything else if you are already hitting them with all the nutes you described.

A few leaves turning lighter green on a few plants could be caused by many things and I wouldn't rush to rectify the problem (if it even is a problem).  Doing so could create other problems for you.

The bottom line is that it is a weed and will grow pretty well all by itself.  If you have created the right environment with temperature, humidity, air movement/flow, and sufficient lumens, I'm sure your plants will be fine.

If you can post some pics, you'll probably get more precise input on what may be ailing your plants and possible cures for that ailment from some of the experienced growers here.

Once you get back to the island- will you be doing all outdoor grows?


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## charlesweedmore (May 4, 2009)

mate i am sure it is absolutely mg deficiency . my leaves is same with that picture. 
and what can i do now ?

should i use epsom salt or carob molasess ?

i think molassess is safer than epsom salts,right ?

and dude, the island has unique ability about growing cannabis sativa.  harvest time is 2 week from seeds in the island  :holysheep:


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## Hick (May 4, 2009)

> IF.. it is an mg defficiency showing, it isn't because it isn't available, but because i isn't getting utilized.


  still my opinion.. 
I think it's a nitrogen defficiency.. you're' nutes are low on "N" ..IMO.. 
lotsa' other "stuff" but not much "N" for a vegging fert.. 
but here again, I am not well versed in soiless mediums.. almost a shot in the dark comin' from me.. 
"7.0" ph..??.. isn't that pretty high for coco?..maybe you're locked ou there.. :confused2:..


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (May 4, 2009)

Charles I had leaves that looked very similar to the ones on the left on my past few grows, usually later in flower. This time around it happened earlier at around week 2 of flowering while they were still in the stretch. I hit 'em with a 1/4 teaspoon/gallon of epsom salt and the change was almost immediate. All new growth from then on out was a nice dark green with no signs of browning or getting crispy.
I'm not sure what caused my Mg deficiency, but after doing some reading I think I may have been over-feeding with Phosphorus which might have locked out the Mg. Maybe not, but I will say that I noticed a definite improvement since adding the epsom salt, and no it won't kill your girls. Just go light. Good luck. :farm:


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (May 4, 2009)

BTW- I use blackstrap molasses pretty regularly in my soil grows and still had the Mg deficiency.


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## charlesweedmore (May 4, 2009)

thank you guys.

@ hick;

i dont grow in pure coco.

my medium : 30% coco,30% peatmoss,20% perlite,20% worm casting and 2 tbs dolomite for  per gallon.

i use bio bizz organic nutes and it has 8 - 2 - 6 NPK .

i read ph is ok between  6 and 7 in organic growing.

@Dr. Manny Bowles

where did your problem beginfrom ? from new growth or lower leaves ?

i read that mg deficeny begins from lower leaves .but my problem is on the new growth,upper leaves.

and 1 / 4 tsp for 1 gallon ?isnt it too small ? i read 1 tsp for 1 litre for foilar feeding and 1 tbs for a gallon.

and regarding mollassess,how much do you use it ?


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## trav_420 (May 4, 2009)

pH could be the problem.  Coco coir is a hydroponic medium.  Try for a pH of 5.8-6.0.  

Also too much calcium can lock out magnesium. That's alot of lime, imo.


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## bombbudpuffa (May 4, 2009)

Your Ph should be anywhere from 6.2-6.5(I use a similiar soilless/coco mix). A Ph problem can cause a deficiency. Drop your Ph to 6.5 and you should see an improvement. Remember, more is not better when it comes to nutes. With all of the lime you have you should be fine on calcium and mag which leads me to believe you're Ph is off as Hick mentioned. Just give her str8 water at a Ph of6.5 for the next couple waterings.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (May 4, 2009)

charlesweedmore said:
			
		

> @Dr. Manny Bowles
> 
> where did your problem beginfrom ? from new growth or lower leaves ?
> 
> ...



Mine always starts at the bottom, but I have seen it up top, usually later on.
On the epsom salt, I too read anywhere from 1/4 tsp to 1 TBS per gallon. I chose to go light as I didnt want to over-do it and I added it to my mix when I was watering. It was the first and only time I've used it and it seems to have made a huge difference.
On the molasses, I have been giving them about a tablespoon/4 gallon bucket with food every other feeding. Since I got a TDS meter about a week ago and measured my run-off, I will be cutting way back on food and probably feeding the molasses in-between feedings with just plain water.


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## Hick (May 5, 2009)

IMO....you have plenty of mg in the mix. It isn't getting used. adding more mg will not "fix" the problem, if your environment/conditions are nor allowing it to be utilized.
 Foliar feeding "may" alleviate the 'symptoms' _temporarily[/u], but it won't fix it._


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## charlesweedmore (May 5, 2009)

@Hick,

i will try foilaR feeding with epsom salts and if it fix it,we can be sure i have mg deficiency and then i will try to find it is lock out or deficiency.

if foilar spraying dont fix,i will be sure i have not got a mg deficiency.

@trav_420 and @bombbudpuffa

 ph is about 7.i measured it now. it is something between 6-7 but closer to 7.
 how can i drop ph to 6,5 without using ph down ? 

@Dr. Manny Bowles

thanks mate for your comment.

i dont have a camera so i couldnt post a picture but i read forums and i see people has similar problem with me. their problem is mg or iron deficiecny and thus i thought  i had mg or iron deficiency.and i checked lower and middle leaves and i saw they have same problem.

the only thing i could do is spraying  the leaves with 5 gr/1 litre epsom salt.

if i have really mg deficiency,it will fix.
if i dont ,will it damage my plants ?

if it is a lock out,why mg is locked ? because of ph ?

but mg will lock out under 6.0 ph but my ph is almost 7.


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## bombbudpuffa (May 5, 2009)

I use lemon juice to drop Ph.


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## bombbudpuffa (May 5, 2009)

> if i dont ,will it damage my plants ?


Correcting your Ph will never harm your plants.


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## Hick (May 5, 2009)

ph isn't the 'only' thing that can lock out other nutrients or micro nutients.
  One of the nutrient trouble shooters on the resource page, address's other causes to some extent. 
If I recall right, too much calcium can inhibit mg uptake.


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## Super Silver Haze (May 6, 2009)

why wouldnt you address the PH issue first.  you said its 7.0 and i see you feel that is in the comfort range.  heres some info from a plant diagnosis guide abour Magnesium.

Magnesium is one of the easiest deficiencies to tell&#8230; the green veins along with the yellowness of the entire surrounding leave is a dead giveaway, but sometimes that&#8217;s not always the case here. In case you have one of those where it doesn&#8217;t show the green veins, sometimes leaf tips and edges may discolor and curl upward. The growing tips can turn lime green when the deficiency progresses to the top of the plant. The edges will feel like dry and crispy and usually affects the lower leaves in younger plants, then will affect the middle to upper half when it gets older, but It can also happen on older leaves as well. The deficiency will start at the tip then will take over the entire outer left and right sides of the leaves. The inner part will be yellow and or brownish in color, followed by leaves falling without withering. The tips can also twist and turn as well as curving upwards as if you curl your tongues.

Excessive levels of magnesium in your plants will exhibit a buildup of toxic salts that will kill the leaves and lock out other nutrients like Calcium (Ca). Mg can get locked out by having too much Calcium, Chlorine or ammonium in your soil/water. 
One of the worst problems a person can have is a magnesium def caused by a ph lockout. By giving it more magnesium to cure the problem when you are thinking you are doing good, but actually you are doing more harm then good. When the plants can&#8217;t take in a nutrient because of the ph being off for that element, the plant will not absorb it but it will be in the soil&#8230; therefore causing a buildup. A buildup will be noticed by the outer parts of the plant becoming whitish and or a yellowish color. The tips and part way in on the inner leaves will die and feel like glass. Parts affected by Magnesium deficiency are: space between the veins (Interveinal) of older leaves; may begin around interior perimeter of leaf.

Soil
Magnesium gets locked out of soil growing at ph levels of 2.0-6.4
Magnesium is absorbed best in soil at a ph level of 6.5-9.1 . (Wouldn&#8217;t recommend having a ph of over 7.0 in soil) anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.

Hydro and Soil less Mediums 
Magnesium gets locked out of Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 2.0-5.7
Magnesium is absorbed best in Hydro and Soil less Mediums at ph levels of 5.8-9.1
(Wouldn&#8217;t recommend having a ph over 6.5 in hydro and soil less mediums.) Best range for hydro and soil less mediums is 5.0 to 6.0. Anything out of the ranges listed will contribute to a Magnesium deficiency.


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## charlesweedmore (May 7, 2009)

thanks guys .

my plants looks better now.what i did :

1)  i switched to tap water but i let sit water for 2 days before using 

2 ) i sprayed leaves with 1 percent mg sulphate  solution .

3 ) i gave them 1/2 tsp epsom salt  in 4 litre water 

4 ) i transplanted them from 6 L to 12 litre pots 

and i gave them only bio bizz grow .

everything is fine for now.

thanks for all comments .


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## Super Silver Haze (May 7, 2009)

glad everything is fine.  happy growin


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