# DWC help



## captain1 (Dec 9, 2009)

OK its my first grow in hydro and have had great soil grows. I am fighting this tooth and nail. Heres what I have.
1. Water RO 5.6 ph
2. Dutch Master gold Nuts. PPM 600-630
3. Large air pump ( enough for 18) 
4. Temp on top of plant has been at 84 at its highest

My problem is they are turning yellow and crispy. Some were in ph lock because I bought cheap organic down it sucked dont buy it ever.
My new clones from a friend look great but new growth shows that again they are going to go yellow. Whats causing this do I need more Nuts? Less? Im gowing crazy please help.


----------



## captain1 (Dec 9, 2009)

NEw


----------



## captain1 (Dec 9, 2009)

This is what happens later.....


----------



## zem (Dec 10, 2009)

it sure sounds strange since your grow conditions seem ok, it can be many things, did you change the res after you switched from your organic ph down? IMO change the res and give em a fresh solution, make sure the grorocks get water regularly cuz in the early days when you transplant them they need to establish roots and pick up, and try putting the damaged plants farther from light to slow its growth down allowing it to recover level your ph between 5.8 and 6 and try to get the temps down to the 70's level if possible. the second pic that plant is almost done and the 1st pic looks on the same track theres something very wrong you're doing and you need to do fix . my best guess is that your rocks aren't getting humid enough and the high temp is dryin them further cuz the plants r small they dont hold enough water in them yet cuz their mass is small and they dry quicker, keep us posted, good luck :ciao:


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 10, 2009)

How old is that plant?  I also think that you have nute burn.  Plants do not need any nutes until they are 3-4 weeks old.  And then I start out with something in the 200 range.  A ppm of 600 is quite high for a plant that small.  What do you mean when you say your air pump is big enough for 18?  18 what?  How much air does it put out?  Have the roots grown into the solution?


----------



## IRISH (Dec 10, 2009)

we start ours out (dwc) at around 220-250...

def nute burn...and it looks like the clones were leaning that way also...

at this time, you dont want to be growing foliage. you want to be concentrating on making big, long, white roots. so get the big lights gone for now, and put a few 40-42 w cfls in there...lower the nutes to 200-250...balance rez temp near to 70 as you can...feel the inside wall of your rez for slime...smell it...clean if needed...(if slime becomes a problem, add 1 cap h202 to rez per gallon liquid)...

ok. X this by 18, and your entire day should be pretty tied up...


----------



## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 10, 2009)

where  did  he  say  what  light  he  was  useing?  and  wont  cfl  make  his  plants  stretch?  



I  like  soil:bong:


----------



## captain1 (Dec 10, 2009)

Ok so heres new info 

1. The plants are already rooted about a foot long or more.
2. The are under a t5 about 6-7 inches away
3. My friend had the ppms at 600 befor I recieved them
4. Res has been changed with new buckets. 
5. I know I had nut lock befor and had what looked like salt on the bottom of old buckets. since have had no more. 
6. wouldnt the tips brown hard and curl if nut burn? seems to be yellowing like they need N.


----------



## captain1 (Dec 10, 2009)

Also some plants are older than others in the pics they are 2-3 weeks old.


----------



## me myyself and I (Dec 10, 2009)

looks like nute burn to me too. gotta check and make sure your getting enough air bubbles too. that was part of my problem, along with I was just using the drops to check ph. I went and got a better pump( ty hg and mindzeye by the way heheh) and bought a decent ph pen. now I will prolly never go back to dirt. hang in there captin. once you have it dialed in it wil be bad azz! I couldnt be happier with dwc. good luck.


----------



## zem (Dec 10, 2009)

captain1 said:
			
		

> 5. I know I had nut lock befor and had what looked like salt on the bottom of old buckets. since have had no more.
> 6. wouldnt the tips brown hard and curl if nut burn? seems to be yellowing like they need N.


5-nutrient lockout is because of high fert cocentration in the solution the salt buildup is not a sign to tell if concentration is high for your plants. you've just cleaned the buckets even if concentration is very high it won't show salt in the bottom already. try flush the gowrock with only water a lot of it so that the salts get well flushed from the growrock on your rootball 
6-fert lockout can look like N deficiency since the ferts are not getting into the plants. fert burns browning and curling are sign of overfert but this is usually incorporated with dark green because ferts buildup slowly in the plant until they reach high levels. in your case you may have given them too much concentration straight away and the roots just couldnt suck any N in and only locked out nutes. maybe your friend's ppm was not 600 check for that, and the drying of growrocks causes further lockout since it becomes more concentrated  when water evaporates and the smaller plants need lower ppm until they pick up and grow... hope you can get them healthy again cheers


----------



## captain1 (Dec 10, 2009)

I know it was nutrient lock because of the ph down I was using was junk organic citric acid (needed it in a pinch). Ph levels were all over from 5.0-8.5 once I changed ph and RO never had a prob. My bubbler is a alita 80. Running less than needed so air is sufficient. I use a good digital ph and tds meter and check calibration often. i bought a new light 8 bulb t5 im going to use. And will lower them down to 200-300 ppm.


----------



## captain1 (Dec 10, 2009)

My friend thinks my ph needs to be from 6.0-6.3 he states thats where his are. He uses the same nutrients dutch master grow.Im freaking losing my mind over this....


----------



## zem (Dec 10, 2009)

captain1 said:
			
		

> My friend thinks my ph needs to be from 6.0-6.3 he states thats where his are. He uses the same nutrients dutch master grow.Im freaking losing my mind over this....


i once saw a plant get better with this PH range but i almost got stoned in here when i gave this advise so i'll emphasize on IME  dont keep messin with your res IMO make the ph 6 its a safe zone especially your friend have been growin them there dont put strong lights yet humidify the enviroment not by misting the plants directly and pray for the best good luck


----------



## pcduck (Dec 11, 2009)

The pH should ideally be 5.8. I start my pH at 5.6 and let it drift to 6.0.

6.3 is way to high for hydro....


----------



## IRISH (Dec 11, 2009)

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> where did he say what light he was useing? and wont cfl make his plants stretch?
> 
> 
> 
> I like soil:bong:


 
i like soil too 4u. i also like dwc... ...

he did'nt say what light he was using. BUT, he did state his temp was 84. it wont get that hot with cfls. has to be hps, or ballast in mh...do you agree 4u?

we veg under cool blue cfls that will stack nodes, on top of nodes, at 1 inch-2inch apart...(i get the occasional 'stray out of the light' like everyone else that plants a few to many)...

i also veg with a 250mh at times. (different plant=different light type) , and sometimes, i use all i got...thats usually in flowering though...

set her at 6.0, and see how she likes it cap...


----------



## captain1 (Dec 11, 2009)

IRISH said:
			
		

> i like soil too 4u. i also like dwc... ...
> 
> he did'nt say what light he was using. BUT, he did state his temp was 84. it wont get that hot with cfls. has to be hps, or ballast in mh...do you agree 4u?
> 
> ...


 
Half were hps half t5 (pics under t5) 
They are all under 4 foot 8 bulb T5 now
Temp was taken at the top of the leaves to make sure they are not burning due to heat.

Room temp 70 
water temp 71-72


----------



## captain1 (Dec 11, 2009)

pcduck said:
			
		

> The pH should ideally be 5.8. I start my pH at 5.6 and let it drift to 6.0.
> 
> 6.3 is way to high for hydro....


 
Thats excatly what I thought I started at 5.6.

I put it to 6.0 he promised by sat new growth should prove him right we will see.


----------



## captain1 (Dec 11, 2009)

Again roots are established and long with fish bone. 12 inches +


----------



## Real78 (Dec 12, 2009)

I know it's a little late to post this but my first time ever was DWC and  man was if fun to do. I won't go to soil because I have a friend that does soil and he told me how long it takes him and I cut the time down with DWC.


----------



## zem (Dec 18, 2009)

captain1 said:
			
		

> Thats excatly what I thought I started at 5.6.
> 
> I put it to 6.0 he promised by sat new growth should prove him right we will see.


hey captain if you're still there what happened to them when you put ph at 6? i guess if you didnt post back with a problem then they liked the ph at 6 better proving your friend and me right  different strains like different PH i told them many times they just wouldnt listen haha


----------



## captain1 (Dec 19, 2009)

zem said:
			
		

> hey captain if you're still there what happened to them when you put ph at 6? i guess if you didnt post back with a problem then they liked the ph at 6 better proving your friend and me right  different strains like different PH i told them many times they just wouldnt listen haha


 
They bounced back but they are growing real slow I think they are in shock trying not to mess with them to much. Some were nut burnt some light burt ect.. They are all under t5 without much growth. I was hoping dwc would be faster but not so for me. I know I need to wait it out and it will be fine just alot of issues hitting at once.


----------



## captain1 (Dec 19, 2009)

As far as 6 ph it was amazing by the next day I could see a difference. I dont allow them to get much over but they seem to like it there.


----------



## surreptitious (Dec 19, 2009)

pcduck said:
			
		

> The pH should ideally be 5.8. I start my pH at 5.6 and let it drift to 6.0.
> 
> 6.3 is way to high for hydro....


 
pc, how often do you adjust your pH?


----------



## zem (Dec 19, 2009)

captain1 said:
			
		

> As far as 6 ph it was amazing by the next day I could see a difference. I dont allow them to get much over but they seem to like it there.


heh i'm tired of being right every single time :hubba: soil growers from all over come overcrowd forums with hydro advise stating that ph optimal is 5.8 for all MJ in hydro, i say soil growers should stick to soil advise, we know there are 1000's of different strains and we know every kind of plant likes a different PH, apply this info to MJ and you got your answer. i think that all the ppl who were once accusing me of givin bad info should admit that you were wrong :woohoo:


----------



## zem (Dec 19, 2009)

captain just give them some time, they were yellowing they need this time for recovery, when you see some fresh green leaf you might wana give em stronger light to speed things up, i'm not sure how many watts is a t-5?


----------



## captain1 (Dec 20, 2009)

my t5 os 40,000 lumens but I pot half that were looking better under the MH 1000. its all the way up. room temp 70 temp at top of the plant 75. Just real slow.And to add to the punishment got mites now from some clones.


----------



## zem (Dec 21, 2009)

the ones that look like the 2nd pic would take time they were almost dead if theyr greening up you gota be happy, the ones under 1000 should be picking up and growing make sure that theyr on the way from yellow to green and not the opposite, observe them closely every day you can even use pics and compare them daily, again, as long as theyr going green you're doing good and it should be soon they should speed up. your biggest mistake in fact was letting it go too far before you seeked some help, the more deterioration the more time it will take to recover, deal with the mites now good thing you spotted them early, try post some new pics that would be good cheers


----------



## [email protected] (Dec 21, 2009)

You want to keep t-5's 4" from top of plant. If everything is going right it should grow a inch a day. I kept my t-5's 12" from top for first 2 weeks then drop to 4" off tops. I have 2 4' 2 bulb T-5 HO 1 6500k and 1 3000k on each lamp.


----------



## captain1 (Dec 21, 2009)

Mites came from an outside source emergency thought I would keep the strains. Now I have to go to war. As far as the light goes it will come down once there healed alittle better its about 8'' away now


----------



## captain1 (Dec 24, 2009)

Can someone help Im going backwards as you can tell from above I have been struggling. I have read that some people claim huge growths with dwc. I have had some plants growing for a month with little to no growth. my PPMs are around 500-600 should I add more? why is it so slow? I can put them under stronger light but I would think a t5 should grow fine. But if need be I will put them under a 1000 mh.


----------



## zem (Dec 24, 2009)

500-600ppm is low raise it to 800-1000, are they getting greener?? if yes and if you'r getting fresh growth you can put em under 1000watt, but dont put em under 1000 with that low ppm they will deteriorate quickly there. its been a while youv been struggling with them, do you have new pics?


----------



## Hick (Dec 24, 2009)

> heh i'm tired of being right every single time soil growers from all over come overcrowd forums with hydro advise stating that ph optimal is 5.8 for all MJ in hydro, i say soil growers should stick to soil advise, we know there are 1000's of different strains and we know every kind of plant likes a different PH, apply this info to MJ and you got your answer. i think that all the ppl who were once accusing me of givin bad info should admit that you were wrong



http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1908 <-- PH and nutrient availibility charts..

I'm 'not' a hydro grower, but there are specific range of ph that allows all mj to flourish in dirt and in hydro. No one is re-writing the scientific facts here. 


> all strains would grow at 6.3PH


. 6.3 is at the very brink of acceptability according to the "_reputable"_ charts and _reputable_ experienced growers. 
Maybe your equiptment/meter is off??? 
It just seems...questionable, that "you" are the ONLY one that I have ever heard say that 6.3 is an acceptable range for mj.   
These folks have been at it for a _long_ time. "I" would hesitate to question their accumulative experience.


----------



## zem (Dec 24, 2009)

your right i shouldnt have said ALL strains grow there but i dunno how it happens that a strain likes a Ph higher or lower than another but IMVHE it does. it maybe because different strains like lower levels of certain micronutrients i dunno, what i experienced was a plant that had severe Ph problem, it was a sativa i was growing years back and a VERY informed user at the time, Cecil was his name and was very well known, said that he thought 5.8 might be overkill for my plant and suggested i try at 6-6.3, other users agreed and i did just that, the plant was much better liked that Ph level alot better. i am not the only one who says this, captain1's friend also says the same he grows this strain at these levels and now captain's plants bounced back as he stated, however it seems to be takin forever... we need some new pics to know what he means by "bounced back". right now my strains like the Ph of 5.6-5.8 i'm not saying you shouldnt grow there i just THINK that different strains like different levels of Ph


----------



## captain1 (Dec 26, 2009)

Ok so Zem was right putting them under the 1000 fried them again with low ppm. they are back under the T5 as you can see be the pics. So they need more ppm now? Im going crazy they just wont bounce back. I have some new girls in the clone machine if these dont go soon the clones will be ahead. Heres were I am again.
1. 70-75 degrees room temp
2. 72 water temp 
3. PH 5.8-6.0 (calibrated)
4. Plenty of air Alita 80 and a pondmaster 100 (6 inch air stones alot of disturbance) 
5. 400 cfm fresh air (outside air)
6. 600 cfm Drawn air (to outside)
7. PPM 600 
8. RO water 0-6 ppm
What am I missing Seems to be perfect Need to know where to go with my new clones soon if this doesnt change.


----------



## captain1 (Dec 26, 2009)

pics


----------



## captain1 (Dec 26, 2009)

So more PPM ?


----------



## zem (Dec 27, 2009)

hey there captain  theyr still alive not lookin very good, 600ppm is low for them IMO, they need full strength nutes, try with 900-1000 ppm. when you put them under strong light plants speed up growth so they need to be healthy or else they will yellow quickly, check the ppm daily if it's goin down increase ppm, lets hope you get things dialed before your new clones are ready, good luck


----------



## pcduck (Dec 27, 2009)

captain1 said:
			
		

> So more PPM ?



Are they fried yet?


----------



## captain1 (Dec 28, 2009)

750 ppm still under t5 looks like new growth is comming. Havent got any worse Pcduck. Do you have any thoughts PCduck? As soon as my clones are ready where should I start The strains are church, White shark, and frosty and LSD. I dont want to go through this again waste of money and strains.


----------

