# Hi, total noob first time grower with some questions and a problem or two.



## Darkmatter

Hi, I'm growing for the first time and have run into some problems, plus I have some general questions.

First, in case it matters, I'm growing 5 Alive and Star Killer from seeds. I admittedly, started late, partly due to it being a cold spring, and being busy dealing with the pandemic, so I expect that I'll end up with smaller plants.

All that being said, I've run into a problem or 2.

First problem, my plants got hit with Spider Mites. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 I first used a home solution I found online of mostly bottled spring water, a bit of gentle soap, and a bit of vegetable oil. I now only can see dark specs on the bottoms of 1 of my plants, and I destroyed all the webbing to see if any new webbing is made today to know if the mites are alive or dead. I later went out and bought some "BugBgoneEco by Ortho, which it says is a medicated soap. I don't know how often I can spray for mites without hurting my plants. Second, I don't know how long it takes for the white speckled spots on the leaves to vanish.

2nd, I have a couple yellowing leaves and 1 that looks worse than that, and I wasn't sure if it was from over watering or the mites. I have a general "soil moisture" meter but I don't know what these strains prefer.
Right now they are in pots, but I'll have to plant them outdoors soon, but for now, since they are small, I didn't know if a small grow light for 24h light would be beneficial or harmful to them at this stage.
I also don't know if I should prune the one leaf that looks a lot worse for ware then the others.

Lastly, but probably most critically, I didn't know what sort of nutrients I should be putting in the soil (plane potting soil) at their current growth stage.

Some are growing faster than others, and I'm not entirely sure why, but these pots are a size up from the ones I started with. One issue I am having is a few of them seem to be just barely strong enough for their height, and other then supporting them with a stick, I wasn't sure what else I could do.

Hopefully it will let me upload a coupe photos. Sorry the one isn't very good, but you'll get the idea.

[Edit: The bad, blurry leaf in the 2nd photo fell off at the stem, so that answers that question.]

Edit2: Oh, I forgot to ask, I should I be watering these guys (while they're in a pot) in a sink, bottom up, or is watering them from the top fine?]

Thanks!


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## WeedHopper

1st off the white specks will not go away. Thats leaf damage from the mites. As small as those plants are you can spray them down with water especially under the leaves where the mites are. Spray they down good and the water pressure will knock them off your plants. Also the mixture you used should of had alcohol in it. I use 50% alcohol and 50% water with a little dish soap. The alcohol kills them on contact. Do not use that method once they start to flower. The alcohol will screw up the trichs.
As for nutrients. What kind of soil are you using. Does it have Ferts already in it? At this stage they need Nitrogen.
And they need all the light they can get. I notice they look like they are stretching trying to get more light. They need a slight breeze on them to build up the stalk strength.
When you water make sure your solution has been PHed where they can uptake nutrients properly.
Also water from the top untill you have runoff and then Do Not water again untill the soil is pretty much dry. They need oxygen,, if they stay wet constantly they will drown.


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## Oldbay

Bubbletrouble is spot on, try and find some nutrients that are geared towards cannabis and right now they should be getting grow/nitrogen. Cannot overstate enough about letting them dry out between watering a, loving them to death with nutes and water is a mistake most of us made when we were getting started. I’ve been lucky to date with never having mites so I have nothing for you there


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## Darkmatter

Thanks, the dirt is potting soil. The guide I got with the seeds said not to use fert for the first few weeks because of how fragile they are. I'll put a fan on them to help strengthen them up. I'll keep checking for mites, but I think the first spray got them all or almost all of them. I wiped down all their webbing and I've used a bright LED light to look for new webbing and I haven't seen any.

Thanks for the watering tip. I was both afraid to over water them, and to under water them. heh

I heard something called "bloodmeal" is good for cannabis plants, but I'm not sure if I can buy that around where I live or not. If I have to go with a more "generic" nitrogen boosting fert or solution, do you guys have any recommendations?

As for light, I've kept them inside under the grow light for the past 4 days because I didn't want them to get reinfected with mites right away. I've since sprayed down everything in the area, so hopefully a lot of mites died this week.  They're now back out in the sun during the day instead of under the grow light, but since you said they need as much light as possible I'll bring them in and under the grow light at night.

*[Edit for things I don't think of... lol] *

What PH level do I want, and do I need to keep using bottled spring water, and is bottled spring water the right PH level? If not, or if it varies by brand, how much is a "thingy" that will tell me the PH of the water, and if it's off, how do I change it?

Regarding my grow light, how close should the plants be to it? It isn't a super strong one, it's just a flourecent tube type grow light for indoor plants. I just am using it for extra light at night, and when I had the plants indoors due to the Mites.

Thanks!


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## 2broke2smoke

Seeds have everything they need for the first couple weeks in the shell.  As for mites, how you approach that is prolly one of the most controversial subjects in the mj .   About 15 years ago I had some cali mites gifted to me on some cuts that I could not get rid of, I  tried neem oil, Avid, and Floramite.  Nothing seemed to be dying.  I took my pocket microscope out and saw the mites drinking the floramite in mugs and flipping me off.  I was in danger of losing all my coveted strains when I  discovered Forbid 4F.  Forbid completely eradicated my problem.  The downside of forbid is you can only use it during veg.  We tested plants in the Michigan State Tissue sample lab,  (one of my best friends was an intern in the lab to the head chemist as a student) sprayed in veg and sprayed in flower.  No residual from the veg , but there was residual with the plants sprayed in flower.

So what to do if your plants are on ? 1tbls non antibiotic dish soap 3 tbls janitorial strength ammonia to 1 gallon water. They will die on contact spray every 3 days up to harvest no worries. The Forbid is not a contact killer and usually takes about 14 days to kill everything

2b2s


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## Darkmatter

Small update. (Not so small...)

So, I got some fertilizer that you dissolve in water, as that's all I could find mid summer in my town, and some new pots and that's where things took an ugly turn... 

These pots I bought had these 2 "holes" in them that, from the bottom, all you could see was black, so I thought they were drainage holes. So, using the method mentioned here I soaked one, but nothing came out the bottom... So I took a flashlight and looked, and they weren't holes, they were just indented "pegs." These pots had no holes at all! I didn't even know you could _buy_ pots without holes! So, I drained as much water out as I could and tried to dry it out. Luckily I only did this with 1 plant. Unfortunately the soil I was using wasn't drying out at the bottom of the _newer_ new pots I bought that _did_ have holes in them, so I was limited as to how often I could water them. I managed to get some actual dirt that has some amount of fertilizer in it, but it turned out to be to "spongy" when wet and also held water to much. 

At least my plants were getting nitrogen now, but I ended up having to re-pot all the plants, add in later, some of the old dirt that was just plain potting soil since it wasn't as spongy as the 2nd dirt I bought, but they _still_ were holding to much water... So, I ended up adding some sand to the soil to improve their drainage, which seems to have helped quite a bit. Sadly, I lost 3 plants in all of this, but luckily 3 have (so far) survived this huge mess, but not without some serious scars.

I'm throwing up some new photos to ask what I should do from here. I'm not sure what to do about the leaves that are dead at the tips. Do I nip the dead parts? Do I leave it alone? Also, as you'll see in a few of the shots, the inner part of the top leaves on 1 of the plants has turned quite dark green, and I don't know if this is nitrogen toxicity, or just the leaves returning to the color they should have been from the start.

I've gone back to using regular spring water instead of the fertilizer water in case this is nitrogen toxicity.

Thankfully I don't use much, so 3 plants should do me just fine, but what a nightmare this has been. ><

Thanks for any additional advice you can give. Note: Next year I'll be buying specific soil and nutrients for these buggers... :/


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## WeedHopper

Its all about making mistakes and learning. It's also great to have a place like The Passion to call home and have peeps that will help you.


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## pute

Glad you are here and taking an interest in growing.  Lots of fun until you have to trim.....I get to do that AGAIN tomorrow.


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## Darkmatter

So is the darker green in the centre of the leaf that's in focus in the last photo normal or to much nitrogen? Also, do I leave the leaves with the dead parts alone or if not, what do I do? 

Thanks!

Edit: BTW, I have _*no idea*_ how these things _ever_ survived evolution. Their like delicate little princesses that die at the drop of a hat. lol


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## pute

You could have a magnesium deficiency and over watering.....cut the dead stuff out.

Tell us more about what you are using end now often.


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## Darkmatter

Do I just cut the dead part of the leaf or the whole leaf?

It's just a basic soil with some fert in it. I also have fert crystals I can mix with water that has more nutrients in it but I think the soil is doing the job. The soil with the fert in it was to spongy, as I said, so I mixed it with the potting soil to make it drain better. That still wasn't enough so I added in some sand and now it drains much better. I water them and then wait until they dry up before watering again.

I'll check how much magnesium is in the fert soil and water. BTW I've been using bottled spring water.

Thanks

Edit: What's the easiest way to add just magnesium?


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## pute

That is your ptoblem.  You need a call mag suppliment.  Frankly , I am surprised you don't have rusty looking spots on the leaves.  Pinch the dead stuff off at the main stem.


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## pute

One more thing. What is your ph?  Spring water could really have some strange PH.  For what you are doing it needs to be 6.5


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## Darkmatter

I wasn't able to get ph strips in town atm, so I had to order a digital one online. It just came it but it seems I have to calibrate it first. I'll be doing that tomorrow. I also got a soil ph meter but it showed up DOA, so I have to send it back. I do have a working soil moisture meter and have been using that to gauge when to water.

As for the mag, the soil I'm now using does have some mag in it, so that's probably why.

Edit: I just tried to post this and I'm getting a "waiting for mod approval" message. I never got that before, so why am I getting it now?

Edit2: Do I have to get rid of the whole leaf if just the tip at the end is dead??

Thanks


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## pute

Calibrate and test not only the nutes you give but the runoff as well. I use GH cal/mag 7.5 mil/gal.  Remember 6.5 both at the top and bottom.  Use a ph down to adjust.


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## WeedHopper

Yep,,because  soil can change your PH,,so always check your runoff to make sure that solution is making it to the roots at the PH you need which is between 6.5 and 6.8


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## 2broke2smoke

I cannot stress this enough, when it comes to fertilizer less is more.  You cannot feed your plants into huge yields.  Huge yields require huge lights.  You have a nitrogen burn on the tips of your leaves, not an alarming issue.  IMHO you are watering too much with fertilizers.  Doing this will contribute to nute lock as the excess salts build up locking out other salts.  Spring water is probably fine by itself.  I would run straight water for awhile and see what the new growth looks like.  Whenever you encounter nute related issues, first move should be to flush, not chasing the deficiency.  Doing the latter usually ends up causing more nute deficiencies.  soil is slow, do not expect to see nearly immediate results like in a soilless (hydroponic) grow op, it is just not going to happen.  Patience is a virtue here, often new growers end up loving these gurls to death

2b2s


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## 2broke2smoke

btw, do not expect the damaged leaves to get better, they won't.  concentrate on the new growth

2b2s


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## Darkmatter

Thanks for the advice. I'd already stopped with the nut water and went back to spring water, which seems to have helped. I'm going to calibrate the ph tester this afternoon. Thanks for the tip about testing the water that runs out. I wouldn't have thought of that. Also, I'm still waiting for my replacement soil ph tester. 

I'm not sure if the damage at the tips of the leaves is nitrogen burn. I only say that because that damage happened _before_ I added some fert soil to the potting soil I was using at the beginning. Now, maybe the tips were already weak from lack of nitrogen and to much nitrogen and not enough magnesium finished them off, I don't know, but I do know that the tips died _before_ I added fert soil or fert water to the equation.

I do have compost in a bin. I'll try adding a bit of that to the soil. It should have magnesium in it, and I'll back off on the watering (spring water) and test it for it's ph.

I do have a couple questions about the damaged leaves. I've circled some leaves in different colors and numbers so you'll know what my questions are specifically asking about.

First, the photo,






So, the worst leaves, circled in yellow with the "1" beside them. I don't know if you want me to clip them at the red circle "3a" or clip the whole thing off at the stem at 3b.

And second, for the leaves circled in orange, with the "2" next to them, they only have a small amount of damage, so I wasn't sure if I should do the same with them as well. (whichever the correct answer is from question 1. 

Thanks again!


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## 2broke2smoke

Thats nitrogen burn, don't care when it happened,  its nitrogen burn.   You also have the nitrogen claw going

2b2s


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## Darkmatter

OK, fair enough. lol

So do I clip the leaves in the circles listed as "1" at spot 3a, or 3b? lol

Also, do I need to do the same for the much less damaged leaves shown as "2"??

Thanks. Hopefully stopping the fert water will stabilize things. Although, I'm a little concerned now that adding any compost to add magnesium would also up the nitrogen back to toxic levels.

This may sound _bonkers_ *crazy*, but, if I ground up and dissolved human vitamin magnesium and put it in a spray bottle and sprayed the leaves, would the plant be able to absorb that? lol Also, I have no clue how much magnesium to put into 1L of water if what I'm asking is even doable.

Like I said, I was going to add compost for magnesium, but I don't want to add more nitrogen.


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## 2broke2smoke

How about don't add anything.  They are not going to "starve" to death I promise you.  I'm not convinced you need additional mag, as it is probably just locked out atm.

As far as cutting off the damaged leaf take the whole thing at the stalk

2b2s


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## Darkmatter

OK thanks. That's the info I needed. As it recovers will it grow new leaf stems to replace the lost ones? Maybe not in exactly the same place, but, in the end, somewhere? Assuming I don't "love them to death" first of course. heh

Edit: I just want to say again, I don't know how these things survived evolution... lol


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## 2broke2smoke

They will replace the lost foliage and multiply it many times over.  Btw, they are very hardy, you just have to stop loving them to death, lol

2b2s


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## Darkmatter

Sorry, I've got one more question. I read on another post someone mention putting honey over the "wound" after cutting a stem off at the stock, and wanted to know if that was something I should also do?

Thanks!


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## ChronicalClouds

Darkmatter said:


> Sorry, I've got one more question. I read on another post someone mention putting honey over the "wound" after cutting a stem off at the stock, and wanted to know if that was something I should also do?
> 
> Thanks!


if you were talking about my post I made in the beginning of last weekend I put it on fingertip and just rub where cut in the morning and by lunch time it hardened and covered whole thing no splinters or open holes left at all on either branch I cut

I’ll post a picture of them once I get off work


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## Darkmatter

Might have been. But I just cut them. My plants aren't that big yet so I figured it wasn't as big a problem.

In fact, to my surprise, when I went to prune the damaged leaves, I found that I had to be very careful because the plant was already starting to sprout new leaves just above the damaged ones, as if it knew those leaves weren't going to make it. Pretty damn smart for a plant.  lol

BTW I do have a different question. This digital PH water tester's instructions are a bit vague. I says specifically to calibrate it using the powder that is PH 6.86 at 25c in a specified amount of water, but there is also pouches for PH 4.01 and PH 9.18 and the way it reads, it isn't clear if you also need to calibrate it for those ranges as well (apparently after you do the 6.86 one) or if that's optional.

I'm guessing you guys would know these things a lot better then "noobsause" me. lol 

Thanks!


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## 2broke2smoke

Tbh i just snap them off at their base. I have never put honey on a plant that I mearly pulled some leaf off.   Honey is a natural antibiotic.  I have used it once on an mj plant when I was grafting  some trainwreck, Shire, and IBG onto my ECSD  clone momma.  I just would not recommend it for leaf removal

2b2s


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## Darkmatter

Thanks. I kinda figured that at the size these guys were at, it wasn't really going to be a problem, but it's also good to get confirmation when you're at the stage where you're "loving your plants to death." lol

Oh, do you have any advice for the digital PH meter?

Thanks!


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## 2broke2smoke

Personally if in soil, I don't think ph meters are all that important.  I say this because the soil ph is what you need to know, not the water ph.  Your best bet imho, would be to simplify everything.

Soil it is pretty forgiving as far as media goes.  Now commercial soils, fox farms, roots, etc, can vary a lot from one grow to the next.  Due to the explosion of peeps growing weed the familiar soils were being rushed to market and often were too hot. 

If you add Dolomite lime that will buffer your ph.  If you have a commercial soil what is the NPK?  Depending on soil all you should need to add is water for at least 2 weeks, realistically probably more like 4 to 5.  When you determine that fertilizer is needed pick a product designed for the growth stage you are in and not a hundred other things some marketing genius tricked you into thinking you need, you don't. KISS you will be amazed how easy this can be

2b2s


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## 2broke2smoke

Btw when it comes to ph meters, it is all about how much do you want to spend on replacement probes. I buy my ph meters from aliexpress these days.  My last expensive meter the probe cost $120.00!

I buy cheap ph meters now, they last about 2 years

2b2s


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## boo

I've been using my meter for 4 years now, still the same battery...milwaukee makes the one I have...calibration is critical...I had a go at it and it was confusing...chil out and read the instructions until you find the path...I don't use the powder you've posted...good luck, once it's set up it works great...im in soil and pH all elements to maintain consistency...


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## 2broke2smoke

Hey boo, my Milwaukee needs a probe it lasted little over 3 years, but at $120 for the new probe I took a chance on these Chinese ph meters 2 for $12 free shipping

2b2s


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## boo

hey 2B2S, how goes live my friend...6 bucks each...hmmm...the place I do binniz with gave me an extra one...some guy bought it and said it was broken...the owner looked in the package and saw the solutions were never used to calibrate it so the claim was bogus...damn, didn't know the proble cost so much...I'll toss it and use the extra one...


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## 2broke2smoke

here is a little info on dolomite lime:

Variously called dolomitic limestone or just dolomite, garden-grade calcium magnesium carbonate raises the pH level of acidic soils. When pH levels are too low, the basic nutrients most plants need remains locked up in the soil, unavailable to the plants growing in the space. Most garden plants prefer a pH range of 6.0 to 6.5. If your soil's pH is lower than that, dolomite may be the right garden amendment for your beds. 

here are instructions on use:

*1* 
Send a soil test to a county agent, universal extension service or professional lab for analysis. You can also use a home soil test kit, available at most garden centers, but most home test kits tell you only pH levels and the relative amounts of nitrogen, phosphorus and potassium that are in your soil. A more detailed lab test can also tell you whether your soil is deficient in magnesium.


*2*
Purchase bagged dolomitic limestone if your soil test concludes that your soil is both low pH and low in magnesium. On average, you need about 5 pounds of dolomite per 100 square feet of garden space for every 1 point of you need to raise your soil's pH, but sandy soil needs less than clay soil.


*3*
Prepare the garden bed before adding dolomite. Remove weeds and other unwanted vegetation, as well as other debris such as rocks and fallen branches. Rake the surface smooth for more even distribution of the amendment.


*4*
Put on protective gloves and long sleeves and pants, as well as a mask. Scatter the dolomite over the surface of your soil, using a rake to ensure that it is distributed evenly.


*5*
Use a tiller or spade to work the dolomite into the top 7 inches of soil. Smooth the area with a rake.


*6*
Water the soil thoroughly so that the compounds in the dolomite begin to leach into the surrounding soil.


*7*
Wait at least two weeks before setting out seeds or seedlings to allow the worked soil to settle in place.


*Things Needed* 

Soil test results
Rake
Gloves
Long-sleeve shirt and pants
Mask
Tiller or spade
Hose or drip irrigation system
 

*Warnings*


The powdery and caustic nature of limestone makes it a potential irritant to skin and lungs. Wear a mask, gloves and long-sleeve shirt and pants when laying the material down.
Research the soil needs of the plants you intend to raise in the garden. Some plants, including azaleas and blueberries, prefer acidic soil and won't perform well if you add dolomite to the bed.
 

*Tips*


If adding dolomite to an existing garden bed, rake aside any existing mulch. Scatter the required amount of the dolomite over the surface of the soil, keeping it several inches from the base of each plant. Work it into the top inch of beds holding
I hope this helps people not familiar with this garden staple

2b2s


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## 2broke2smoke

Hey boo, mine is prolly so pricey because it does EC, PPM, & PH

2b2s


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## Darkmatter

Hi all. Well I calibrated my digital water ph meter and the bottled spring water has a ph of 8.2. The runoff has a ph of 7.5.

I did get a new soil ph meter but it's just a cheap thing so I wouldn't say that it's likely to be very accurate. It says the soils ph is around 7, which would make sense if the water is just over 8, but down to 7.5 after it's gone through the soil.

Also, I have to process the photos yet, but I have a lot of new growth along the stem since I removed about 40% of the fertilizer dirt and replaced it with just plain potting soil, so I don't think they're suffering from to much nitrogen anymore.

To tired to bother with photos tonight. Tomorrow. 

Edit: OK, it's tomorrow so here's some photos. My questions are, should I make my spring water slightly more acidic by adding a bit of vinegar to it? If I recall correctly (which I may not) they prefer a more acidic conditions. This should also make the soil a bit more acidic wouldn't it?

Also, in the first photo the largest of the lower leaves still have the yellow edges, and I wasn't sure if it was something that the plant will correct over time, or if I should clip them too? Same with the lowest large leaves in the 4th photo (3rd plant) which has a bit of droop at the very tip, but it's very small. BTW that 3rd plant (with the white spots) is the one that took the brunt of the mite damage. I've been checking them for new mites regularly.

BTW, if it matters for the strains, I'm growing 5 Alive and Star Killer.

I'll get back to you with soil NPK and if it has any of the micro-nutrients in it or not, as well as current plant heights.

Thanks!

Plant 1





Plant 1 (Close up)





Plant 2 (Close up)





Plant 3





Plant 3 (Close up)


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## Darkmatter

I forgot to get the NPK of the dirt and firt and the plant heights but I'll get them today. Any advice based on the ph values I got would be great.

Thanks!


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## Darkmatter

OK, time for a much overdue update.

The plants are doing pretty well. I've had to re-pot them once, and they have a lot of new growth.

I know (finally) have the nutrients for the 3 things I was using on top of what was/is the main soil medium, which is just plain old potting soil with nothing added to it. I looked at the bag and it doesn't mention anything about nutrients so I have no idea if it also has some _natural_ NPK in it or not.

So, for what I am now using....

I'm mostly using the potting soil, with some of the dirt that also has some fert in it, which I will provide a photo of what's in it below. I also added some sand as it wasn't draining very well before, but now is.






Before I got the soil above, I was using potting soil and I added some fert to it, which was obviously to much since it burnt my plants, as you all know. 

This is the "specs" on that stuff.






And lastly, the stuff I am no longer using, is the fert water that I was using at one point, but haven't been since you guys told me stop trying to kill my babies with love. lol..... heh :/






Lastly, I need to take a new photo of my biggest plant that I re-potted, because I see a bit of "burn" or death at the very tip of 1 set of leaves, and while I'm not 100% sure if it's new, I think it is, so it's possible when I re-potted that one, it got to much of the dirt that also has a small amount of fert in it. It's the fert dirt in the first photo.

My one main question, is regarding a better grow light. I will be moving these guys to a friends greenhouse, but because they are *way* behind in their growth due to the abuse they took from their father... uhh... _me_.... they aren't ready to flow yet, _but_ I live in Ontario so the nights are getting long. The temp in the greenhouse is still around 85F, but my concern is the length of the night. If someone could recommend a "decent" LED grow light for 3 plants that will be taking up as minimal as possible a space in someone else's greenhouse, that would be great! I would like to spend aprox $100, give or take. _Preferably _from a place in Canada to avoid duty and the exchange rate, but if what I need can't be found it Canada, then so be it.

If the greenhouse plan falls through, I wondered if I would be able to construct a wooden frame and line it with clear plastic, glue, or melt the sheet edges together to form something close to air tight to keep the smell from getting out? I would then use a vent to a window, and a fan inside a room, but outside the sealed "tent" to both provide fresh air, and to create a positive air environment in the tent to push the smell out the window, and keep the cold out of the tent. I would of course, need the plastic to also go across the floor or it wouldn't keep the smell in, and I would need some sort of seal-able door so I could get in there. This would be an option of last resort though.

Thanks!


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## Darkmatter

Anyone? Maybe I should make a new post? I'll wait and see.

Thanks


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## WeedHopper

Check out our LED light Thread for your lights.





						The Best LEDs
					

I keep seeing members asking about the best LEDs and what Leds members are using. Lets post our LED light systems and give the members a heads up. That way they have one thread to go too for help with LED lights. Thanks👍



					www.marijuanapassion.com
				



As for making a grow room you can use RMax.








						Thermasheath Rmax Thermasheath-3 1 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. R-6 Polyisocyanurate Rigid Foam Insulation Board-787264 - The Home Depot
					

R-Matte Plus-3/Thermasheath-3 is rigid foam plastic thermal insulation board composed of environmentally sound, closed cell, polyisocyanurate foam bonded to a durable white-matte (non-glare) aluminum facer and a reflective reinforced aluminum facer. This product is suitable for use in wall...



					www.homedepot.com
				




I used this to build a nice Grow Room in my walk in closet in Florida once and it worked great. Its insulated and white on the other side which is a good reflective color.


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## Darkmatter

WeedHopper said:


> Check out our LED light Thread for your lights.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> The Best LEDs
> 
> 
> I keep seeing members asking about the best LEDs and what Leds members are using. Lets post our LED light systems and give the members a heads up. That way they have one thread to go too for help with LED lights. Thanks👍
> 
> 
> 
> www.marijuanapassion.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> As for making a grow room you can use RMax.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Thermasheath Rmax Thermasheath-3 1 in. x 4 ft. x 8 ft. R-6 Polyisocyanurate Rigid Foam Insulation Board-787264 - The Home Depot
> 
> 
> R-Matte Plus-3/Thermasheath-3 is rigid foam plastic thermal insulation board composed of environmentally sound, closed cell, polyisocyanurate foam bonded to a durable white-matte (non-glare) aluminum facer and a reflective reinforced aluminum facer. This product is suitable for use in wall...
> 
> 
> 
> www.homedepot.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I used this to build a nice Grow Room in my walk in closet in Florida once and it worked great. Its insulated and white on the other side which is a good reflective color.




Hi, thanks, I will look at the grow light thread.

For the insulating boards, how did you seal the seams to make it air/smell tight?

Thanks!

DM


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## WeedHopper

I used black masking tape. Mine was so airtight i had negative pressure in my grow room. Its very easy to cut your holes for exhaust and intake. All you need is a razor knife. Get the 1" thick boards.


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## Darkmatter

I also notice they have these for about $100 CND. It's 36''x20''x63"






						BloomGrow 36''x20''x63'' Hydroponic 600D High Reflective Mylar Waterproof Oxford Cloth Indoor Grow Tent Dark Room w/Plastic Corner Floor Tray for Indoor Planting Growing (36''x20''x63''): Amazon.ca: Patio, Lawn & Garden
					

Find products from BloomGrow at low prices. Shop online for barbecues, mowers, garden tools, generators, snow blowers and more at Amazon.ca



					www.amazon.ca
				




Now, as for the grow light, that seems to be a more complicated issue. lol There are a lot of choices and the prices range quite a bit. For the grow tent I'd have to work out the material costs, but having to build the "room" myself vs just buying one and putting it together probably is the better option unless these pre-made tents suck. Something only you guys would know. lol

Thanks!


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## toxdetective

Be careful

Like many things plant size does not equal potency or quality. 

I've worked with growers that went big and missed the peak. They were repotting wood.


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## Cannagrammy

Buying a tent and putting it up is definitely the cheaper of two, but having grown in a tent and an actual room, I personally choose the room.  My tents always had light leaks and I find everything easier in a room rather than a tent.   Personal opinion, I guess. 

The light is your bigger issue.   Whenever shopping for one, just make sure you see the true watts that are pulled from the wall, not what the light manufactures name the light to lead you astray. 

And hello!   Nice to have you here!


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## Darkmatter

Thanks. But where would I find the "true wattage" for a given light? 

As for a "room vs a tent" I don't disagree, but due to my space restrictions I think a tent would be a better "fit" for me, even if it is more fiddly to work with.

Thanks!


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## ROSTERMAN

Darkmatter said:


> Thanks. But where would I find the "true wattage" for a given light?
> 
> As for a "room vs a tent" I don't disagree, but due to my space restrictions I think a tent would be a better "fit" for me, even if it is more fiddly to work with.
> 
> Thanks!


As CannaGrammy was saying read the Specs, on the light from the company add you are planning to buy.
The actaul wattage from wall will be listed somewhere,
most times a 1000led is 100 watts  and any 2000 is 200. it is a trick the cheap sellers use. I will post an example.
Is is a Mars Hydro ad from amazon
light details on this model

* MARS HYDRO TS 1000W Led Grow Light 3x3ft Daisy Chain Dimmable Full Spectrum LED Growing Lights for Indoor Plants Greenhouse Veg Bloom Light with 342 LEDs Hydroponic Growing Lamps Actual Power 150Watt 


Do you see how they advertise it as a 1000 and then say it is actual power of 150watts    Well 150 is wall wattage*


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## Darkmatter

Ah yea, they like to use "equivalent wattage" terms but it all depends on the quality of the LED's used, as just 1 factor. Unfortunately my "COVID budget doesn't allow me to splurge on a $300+ light. :/


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## ROSTERMAN

Check out Spider/Farmers when you are ready for a LED
I know a few who like them a lot
I built a 300 watt myself and parts wise not much savings doing it myself if I use samsung panels like Spider does





						Spider Farmer LED Grow Light & Kits - Spider Farmer Official
					

Spider Farmer LED designs, manufactures high-quality led grow lights & grow tent & grow kits. Providing the best grow equipment and lowest price for growers.




					www.spider-farmer.com


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## ROSTERMAN

Give them a call and tell them if you can be a tester on a site that their product is not advertised on 
Yet...........................   Never know, like I said I know a few people .


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## Darkmatter

Hello all.

Giving an update, and I need a bit of help. /shock

My plants weren't ready by the time it got cold up here in Ontario, so I had to move them into a friend of the families greenhouse. They started flowering but then stopped growing (the flowers/buds) and now I'm seeing signs of re-vegging.

I need to know if this is being caused by the unusual heat wave we have going on right now, as it's been going up to 20C in the day here for the past week, and down to only 15C at night, or is it a light issue? Now we're down to 8h of sun and 16h of night. The unusual heat is suppose to be over by tomorrow or the next day, but if they think this 16h of night means spring is around the corner, then I guess this is as far as these buds go. :/

Thanks!

DM


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## pute

Strange.   Little cold but might effect the size of your plants but to re-veg?   I know a couple of people that grow in conditions like that and they get cuts from me.   Same strains but the altitude and weather causes the plants smaller and buds to be larfy.  Final product is ...... well she says it's something to smoke.


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## Darkmatter

So, basically, they _shouldn't_ be re-vegging? 

Any other reasons they would start to re-veg?

Also, WTH does "larfy" mean? lol 

Thanks,

DM


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## pute

Ha ha.  Sorry, grower term.   Larfy means real light air_y  buds.  My buds weigh 3 times what hers does.  I don't think they are re-vegging.....18 hours of light would cause this but not 8.  Again I could be all wet on this subject.   I am sure an outdoor grower with similar conditions can give a much better answer....


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## Darkmatter

I'll go take a photo later, but it looked *exactly* like the photos I've seen online of re-vegging. Small leaves that appear to be coming out of the flower/buds. The problem is that the buds are _very_ small ATM. :/

Edit: But _please,_ if anyone else can chime in on this, please do so now. I'll try to get the photo up by this evening. Right now I have the plants, after getting sunlight in the morning, in a shed, in near total darkness to slow their growth. They'll go back outside this evening, and I looked at the weather, and this warm spell will be over after today. Normally I would be unhappy by this, but I'm somewhat conflicted this year. 

EDIT: Couldn't get there tonight. They were out.

DM


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## Darkmatter

Finally got a few shots.

BTW when post-processing them I noticed some fine threads on one of the plants. I'll be taking care of that tomorrow.


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## pute

Looks healthy to me.


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## 2broke2smoke

not revegging,  When a reveg occurs the plant starts throwing single finger leaves


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## Darkmatter

OK thanks.

But I have noticed that the little hairs on some of the buds have started to wilt. You see it most in the first photo.

From what I've read, that's a sign (sometimes) that it's getting close to time to harvest, but the buds are still quite small.

Probably due to "love"  ........ :/


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## 2broke2smoke

You have to look at trichomes to determine when to harvest.   I promise you those are not ready


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## Darkmatter

Oh I have. I've read the thread, watched vids, read websites.

I'm watching the trichomes (added the word "trichomes" to dictionary... lol) to see how they're doing. They're turning milky, slowly, but none have turned orange. From what I've read, I probably want about 25% of them to have turned orange. Less if I want a more energetic effect, with a possibility of paranoia, _thankfully_ something I don't usually get, or 50% orange if I want a more relaxed effect. Although I also read that this also varies somewhat by strain.

Mine are Star Killer and 5 Alive. Two strains I've never tried before.

If I remember (off the top of my head) when they turn orange, it's an indication that they've gone slightly past peek THC, and some of the THC, well, THCA, has broken down to CBDN. That's all from memory, so I could be wrong on the exact molecules.

This is a photo from Oct 30. Clear trichomes, but the little white "threads" are healthy.








And this is from Nov 12th. Turing milky, but fine white hairs wilting.


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## 2broke2smoke

it is a balancing act, like you said thc is in decline while cbdn is in ascendance.  it is impossible to know exactly when thc is at peak without some very expensive equipment, but the observation of trichomes is a much better indicator of ripeness than looking at the pistils


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## WeedHopper

That is absolutely correct. Red hairs does not mean its ready. That's why some weed is lime green and will kick your ass and others can be red and not worth a shit.


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## 2broke2smoke

Here is one of my favorite videos, It is an olde but a goode, I  recommend watching the whole series, but for this conversation this one is appropriate:


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## Darkmatter

Time for an update!

The trichomes are starting to get frosty, but none have turned orange yet. The buds are a bit bigger, but I think they'll be small, partly due to my "love" and partly due to the cloudy weather we get here this time of year.

As you can see in the wide angle shot, the first plants leaves are turning yellow on the bottom half, which, I've heard can happen as the plant is reaching the end of it's life.


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## Darkmatter

Hi, just giving an update, although from what I've heard, it may not matter.

Apparently the person who's letting me use his greenhouse has said that he's turning off the heat Jan 1. 

Thanks for all the notice! lol

Anyways, here are a few pics. As you can see with the last 2 that I put circles around, the leaves are doing some funky stuff now. In the last photo, the circled leaves are actually an even more pale then what the photo shows.

As I'm probably out of time anyways, it may not matter, but for the future, I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on the trichomes and the leaves.

Thanks again!


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## JoseyWales

Darkmatter said:


> Hi, just giving an update, although from what I've heard, it may not matter.
> 
> Apparently the person who's letting me use his greenhouse has said that he's turning off the heat Jan 1.
> 
> Thanks for all the notice! lol
> 
> Anyways, here are a few pics. As you can see with the last 2 that I put circles around, the leaves are doing some funky stuff now. In the last photo, the circled leaves are actually an even more pale then what the photo shows.
> 
> As I'm probably out of time anyways, it may not matter, but for the future, I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on the trichomes and the leaves.
> 
> Thanks again!View attachment 267590
> 
> View attachment 267591
> 
> View attachment 267592
> 
> View attachment 267593


How did you take those pictures very close and clear. Also what are those very fine white hairs?


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## Darkmatter

I'm a photographer so I have some pretty decent gear, but not absolute top of the line stuff as most of that stuff is insanely expensive!

I used a 100mm macro lens with extension tubes, as well as a magnifying "super macro" attachment on the front of the lens. I can't remember the name of it, but it was less than $100. The only downside is that you get distortion from anywhere that goes too far past the centre of the attachment, which I'm fine with because I got it for photographing snowflakes. 

The hairs? I have no idea. They weren't visible to the naked eye, which often happens. The camera sensor picks up stuff you don't see. Could be leftover webs from a few spider mites I had to "evict."


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## WeedHopper

You need to at least have all Cloudy before Harvest are it will be a short high.


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## Darkmatter

Thanks all. But if the guy turns the heat off on Jan 1 it'll drop to +2 in the day and anywhere from -3 to -6 at night. I don't think the plants will like that... Also, what would happen if I tried to dry and cure them in those temp conditions?

Lastly, any thoughts on the leaves I circled? Especially the ones that are dark green, even though not all of them are like that, or the ones that are dark green but have a pale yellow outer edge?

Thanks


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## BoCoGrow

Are you still using nutes on your plants or just water at this point?


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## Darkmatter

Water


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## pute

All leaves do that when the plant is almost finished.  Especially after you cut the N and cal mag a month from at harvest........good looking fade.  It you have lost your heat put them inside in total darkness for 48 hrs and harvest....I think they will be fine.


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## BoCoGrow

To add to Putembk's reply, when you switch to feeding plants water only, at some point, there are no more nutes in the soil for the plant to consume.  So the plant pivots, and starts cannibalizing nutes stored in its leaves, causing the leaves to yellow.  This is totally natural and the yellowing will increase until you harvest.

I like the pics, your buds look like they will end up being nice and sticky!


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## Darkmatter

Thanks all.

I talked to the guy with the greenhouse and he's keeping the heat on. *phew* 

Edit: I know you can't know for sure, especially since it's now winter and we're getting a LOT less light, but do you guys have any guess as to how much longer it will take based on the photos I've posted?


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## JoseyWales

Darkmatter said:


> Thanks all.
> 
> I talked to the guy with the greenhouse and he's keeping the heat on. *phew*
> 
> Edit: I know you can't know for sure, especially since it's now winter and we're getting a LOT less light, but do you guys have any guess as to how much longer it will take based on the photos I've posted?


Not being a wise guy, the plants will let you know.


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## BoCoGrow

JoseyWales said:


> Not being a wise guy, the plants will let you know.



Do you have a pocket microscope or jewelers loupe to monitor the trichomes?  While a general rule of thumb is to harvest when the trichomes are milky/cloudy, with 5% of the trichomes having turned amber in color, some people choose to harvest before any trichomes turn amber, and folks like Putembk like to harvest when the trichomes are 30% amber.  Are you growing indica or sativa, and what type of effect are you looking for (cerebral vs. sedative)?


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## Darkmatter

No I've been using my camera equipment. (See photos above)

Sativa or Indica? Yes. 2 Sativa, 1 Indica. Sativa cerebral. Indica sedative.

Also, I do know about the trichomes, which is why I've been taking photos, but as a "noob" I thought someone could give me an idea based on their progression, approx. how much longer they may take to be ready?

Thanks


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## Growdude

I say at least 2 weeks, just a guess


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## Darkmatter

OK, final bud report.

I'm out of time so I wanted to know if I should bag these babies in zero light for 24h?

These are odd plants. Some trichomes look clear, some look cloudy, some look amber, and some even look purple.  0.o'

Here are the photos. I wanted your opinions on putting them in total darkness. Oh, I checked, and I don't think it would get much better than this before the plants died. I checked one of my first bud photos and it was at the end of OCTOBER! lol

Thanks!


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## Darkmatter

No, seriously. Should I bag them for a day before I chop them? 

Thanks!


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## Darkmatter

OK, just in case nobody knows what I'm talking about, it was suggested to me earlier in the thread that if I wanted more amber trichomes, I should put them somewhere with 100% darkness for a day or 2. A light proof bag was the suggestion.

I kind of need to know if these guys, or some of them, need me to do that, as I need to harvest them in the next day or 2.

Also, I would *love it* if someone could explain why on at least 1 of the plants, the trichomes appear to have more of a purple tint to them.

Thanks, and I hope the explanation helps.

Oh, also, while I haven't watched his _whole_ series yet, I did watch the videos recommended to me earlier, from the series "So You Want to Grow Pot." All I can say is, WOW! Super informative, but also very very funny guy!  Although, I have *no idea* how that survived YouTube censoring considering the age of the video.


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## Darkmatter

Oh, one other thing I forgot.

There's no way I'll be able to get 75F where I'm hanging these. I'll probably be around 50F, maybe up to 60F.

Will this affect things negatively? Also, from the video, it sounds like I should have about 50% humidity. That's not what we get up here in winter. We average about 30%. lol I'll try putting a pan of water in the greenhouse to up the humidity, but I would bet that a lot of it will just seep out.

Not sure about how that will change things.

I'm assuming (unless I missed that part in the video) that you prune off the leaves after it's dried?

What about the trichomes on the leaves close to the buds? Is there any way to make use of them for baked (no pun intended) goods?

Thanks!


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## BoCoGrow

I've heard that putting plants in total darkness for up to 48 hours before harvesting stresses the plant, and the plant reacts by increasing resin production.  I haven't seen any science that confirms or denies that though, nor have I done that before myself.  I will be trying it with my current grow.

I've never put a live plant in a bag, and my initial reaction when I read your post was, "that sounds like a recipe for mold;" plants transpire significantly when it is dark, so unless the bag was somehow lightproof AND breathable, I personally would be concerned about doing that.  If more experienced growers think differently, please do call me out on that.

RE the environment, what is interesting in your case is that you have a combination of lower than ideal temperature (leads to slower dry time) and lower than ideal humidity (leads to faster dry time).  In theory, they offset one another, but I don't know to what degree, and there is a reason why ideal temp and humidity have been established.  The reference to 30% humidity is concerning because at that level, your larger buds could end up being dry on the outside but still moist inside.  If you are unable to acquire a grow tent (or some other enclosure) to put in the greenhouse, and use a space heater and humidifier within that to create the right environment, I really don't know what your outcome is going to be.  Drying your buds in cardboard boxes or paper bags will create an internal environment that is more humid than the outside, but I don't know how much that will get the humidity up, and you will still have your temp issue.  I feel like I remember @RosterTheCog posting about drying in bags or even a cooler, so maybe Roster can chime in here?  You would definitely need to monitor the internal RH and open the box or bag to bring the RH down if it gets too high, but you would also need to do so anyway to exchange the air.

You asked two questions about leaves.  The first was pruning.  Before answering that, something to keep in mind is that the more intact you leave your plants, the slower the dry time.  A larger proportion of water in a plant is stored in the branches and stems, so if you are in an environment that will lead to faster than ideal drying times, you can slow the dry time by cutting the plant and hanging it whole.  In the opposite situation, if you need to speed up the dry you would cut and hang individual branches.  I'm not sure which situation your humidity and temp will lead to, thus can't suggest which route to take, but something to consider.   Now to pruning: some folks trim their buds before (wet trimming) and others do so after (dry trimming).  I've heard that wet trimming, followed by another round after the buds are dry, leads to better looking buds ("dispensary quality").

RE the second question about a use for the trichomes on leaves, absolutely.  Do some web searches for making kief and/or bubble hash.


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## Darkmatter

Thanks for the info! In the end, the environment changed for the better. They are in a partially heated garage. About 60F and 55-60% hum.

So, little lower temp, little higher humidity, so it sounds like a good balance.

I hung the whole plants but I'll watch how they go. Two of them changed a LOT in the last 36h. All but the newest, smallest leaves, and the mature buds died and dried in that 36h. Sure, there were already a decent number of dead leaves, but most were just very pale yellow. I figure those 2 will dry the fastest, as they don't even _feel_ like they have much water in them.

The last one was still alive and kicking. Drying? Yes, but it had by FAR the most leaves that weren't even partially dried out yet. Might be the strain. I'm going to watch that one more carefully.

Sorry, I can't remember from the video. How long is this supposed to take? 2 weeks+?
I only ask because I was wondering what metric to go by in deciding when to/if to, hang the stems individually?

Thanks!


----------



## Growdude

Darkmatter said:


> Also, I would *love it* if someone could explain why on at least 1 of the plants, the trichomes appear to have more of a purple tint to them.



The dark trichomes are overdone and degraded.
Nice buds by the way


----------



## Surfer Joe

Darkmatter said:


> How long is this supposed to take? 2 weeks+?
> I only ask because I was wondering what metric to go by in deciding when to/if to, hang the stems individually?
> Thanks!



2 weeks seems way too long to me, but I don't dry whole plants and I don't know your drying environment.
I would have trimmed the colas and buds of all leaves first and then hung the stems up.
It usually takes me 3 to 4 days of hanging in a 17C and 50%hum dark tent with a small fan just moving the air and the extractor fan/filter sucking it out.
Once the buds are feeling crispy on the outside, they will still feel a bit moist inside.
At about this point, cut the buds off the stems and put them in airtight jars with a hydrometer to measure humidity.
Give it about 6 hours to measure the humidity.
If they go above 70%, remove them from the jars and dry for about 6 hours on a tray in the same drying conditions and then put them back in the jars and check the humidity again.
Repeat the process until the humidity in the jars is around 62-65%.
At that point, they are ready to cure and you should put a 62% Boveda bag in each jar and leave it alone in a cool dark place.
Let it vent for a few minutes each week and keep smelling it to check for the ripening aroma as well as for any hint of mold smell.
If you let the humidity fall below 56% or so, the buds will be too dry to cure and will taste harsher.
Never blow fan air directly on the drying pot.
I also dry the trim in the tent at the same time and just let it get real crispy and dry since I will only use for butter and not smoking.
After a while in the jars, you can tell that it's correctly dried if you hear a snap when you break a small stem on the buds.


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## Darkmatter

Wow, thanks to both of you!


----------

