# What is Project Medicine Man in Mt and the Whys behind it.



## MysticWolf (Jun 17, 2009)

First I'm going to move a post over from the other thread to let people know the honest problems here in Mt with the current Care Givers.

Okay so what is Project Medicine Man in Montana.Let me explain why We started it.

First and foremost it is a group of dedicated Patients and our Real Life REAL Care Givers "Project Medicine Man is a Collective" Not a Club, not a Group, Not a Secret Handshake whoo hoo we got the herb Coop...Not that I'm knocking all those things and Groups at all because those folks paved the way for what We are choosing to build here and some are run very well and do deeply care and do what they can where they can to help people.

Why did We form a "Collective"...To make a long story short... Have you ever gotten together with like minded friends that get you? ...Well at times We disabled or as We like to call it Physically Challenged folks like to get together too just to shoot the turkey...

Anyhow a bunch of Us got together now some of Us are Leaders.. some followers ...some fence sitters ...but you have that in every group of friends.

 ...Well now Image this the Topic turned to Medical Cannabis and we all started talking and sharing note...Let me tell you the topic of the Local Caregivers was NOT very nice or good. And your probably going to ask why!

First most all the CareGivers are from out of state. Which is not a huge issue, but when they are High as a kite even handling things on the phone that's not so kewl at all... 

Second they don't even call it a reimbursement ...No they call it we are going to charge you $300.dollars an once " Oh and @NorthCalHal all my respects, but that is every caregivers here starting rate..."Yep they have coluded and set the rate" and it goes UP from there WAY up for things like canna butter ,honey oil, kief so on " and your welcome to call and check if you don't believe me. 

Point two...Your on a fixed income because your disabled ...Well so Sorry Chuck again... There is no indigent, or low income program in the state of Montana provided by ANY of the Current Care Givers.

Point three: None of the current CareGivers even have a Donation to Hospice program at all... though one claims to be trying mind you trying to start one...As if it is that hard to call Hospice and setup a pickup or a drop off "Come On" Hospice is using both volunteer local grower and paying from their pocket where they must to those bad Care Givers 300 dollars an once... I know I called them...Guess what they said they would be Most grateful for any overages I grow and would get them Right out to patients in need...Trying to Start a Hospice program what a JOKE...Using that excuse for a month while you make the calls kewl... using it as an excuse to make yourself look good to patients"Come On" ... they won't even call Us patients here...no then they might feel guilty ...WE ARE CLIENTS.

Point 4...Okay so you finally do save up to pay the rape and pillage prices... you call... you assign... they are growing "Your Six plants that You own" and they are making money off them...So You go to buy meds and You get from them...Umm sorry we are out! ...Umm they are a little wet! ... Oh they are not cured yet! ...Ohh the bag is short weight! ...Opps you must have gotten the bag we shaked for kief! ...Opps there was mold really? 

Then go ahead and ask for a refund or exchange ...So sorry Chuck your not going to get one.

Point 5: Ask for some seed or a few clones from those Local CareGivers so a patient can be self sufficient...They say sure sign over your 6 plants to me for a year ...then I'll be happy to give you a 2 inch clone starting at 30 bucks ..and strains go up from there... and Oh we don't give out seed so sorry chuck...we don't even sell seed.

Can you maybe start to see where We are Frustrated a bit as honest patients?


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## MysticWolf (Jun 17, 2009)

So what are We doing about the current issue as honest patients here...Enter Project Medicine Man and Our Idea for MT legitimate patients.

This is a Grant letter I submitted to My Leather Club Brothers 

My Dear Club Brothers ,

I'd like to propose an opportunity for a grant or an endowment. Since moving
to Montana, I've found it is a way more liberal state in some ways and also a
way more conservative state in others.

Now, how is it Julie and I and the others in Our Medicine Man Collective wish to help and make a difference here ? Well, medical
marijuana is legal to not only grow, but to sell in the state of MT. While still
in NC, I received some guidance from several who shall remain nameless on the
growing of medicinal marijuana. In fact, I became very skilled at growing my own
crop outside with these peoples help (adding a deep thank you to them as it does
honestly greatly help my MS without all of the bad side effects of the other
medications I have to take).

Julie and I have undertaken the daunting task of jumping through all the state
governmental hoops, and obstacles, and we have passed all of them with flying
colors. I got the last official seal of approval yesterday so now We are just
waiting for the cards and credentials due to arrive from the state via courier
within the next 30 days so we can start the project of starting our own crop in
full.

To that end she and I have invested $4000.00 dollars in a self-contained grow
pod which is bare bones and has no grow equipment in it yet. Why would we put in
our last penny for the pod? That reason is easy and simple. We both feel very
strongly that we can bring a much needed service to the community with our time
and effort invested added to my green thumb.

There are only 5 care giver groups in the state of Montana, three of them are
owned by one single family 0 % of the crops are donated to hospice, 0% of the
crops are donated or discounted for those on low or fixed income. Current prices
that even AIDS and HIV and Cancer and MS patients and more have to pay are as
follows:

1). $300.00 dollars for one smokable ounce, and it often times is not fully
dried or cured!
2). Canna butter 8 oz tub made with an ½ ounce medical grade is $200.00 dollars!
3).Canna tincture made with an ¼ ounce medical grade and ever clear is $125.00
dollars a pint!
4). Kief which is a rough mixed grade water hash $4000.00 for one ounce, also
drying is an issue!
5). Medical grade hash, please sit down Brothers is $6000.00 for one ounce!

Yes, they are charging very sick often, dying patients these astronomical
prices, and it makes Julie and I sick. Granted, I know there are costs involved,
but there are honest overhead costs then there is raping the sick and infirmed
to the point that a good medicine alternative is so far out of reach it is
unobtainable except by the rich. Even Hospice is going through their budget to
help the very worst cases where they should at the very least get medicine at
the cost of growing it discount.

Enter Project Medicine Man: We have the grow pod, We have my green thumb, and my
organic chemistry background, and We have Julie's and fine financial mind, and
micromanaging skills...and others in the Collective ready to help too... What we are lacking is simply the grow equipment, and
lighting equipment, and the extraction equipment, and gathering the best
medicinal strains. However, we have done our research on all facets of this, and
many things I can build, and will to save cost and as things blossom the
equipment can be upgraded bit by bit.

The entire purpose will be to keep costs as low as is humanly possible while
also building a slowly growing and sustainable operation that can help the most
people. In that effort I'm now coming to you, my Brothers in Leather in hopes
that you may choose to Endow Project Medicine Man in this effort to keep
costs low and provide the best care to the most people at the lowest possible costs. We honestly believe we can, with your help, bring down the cost to
patients to one third or less of what they currently are, by opening up the
potential of a good alternative for those patients. We seek your help in taking
greed out of the equation, and putting Patients first.

What I propose to you my Brothers is a staged Endowment and Project that will
take1 and Â½ to two years to bring to a self-sustaining level.

1).An initial $1400 dollars Endowment will let me gather the strains, and start
the Mother plants, and setup the clone nursery. At this point, I will know base
operating costs. I should also know at this point roughly how viable Project
Medicine Man is, and roughly how much we can save patients, and still cover the
overhead.

2).A second $1400 dollar Endowment will set up the flowering chamber, and bring
on board the trychomes extraction unit. Here we hope to start helping other
patients adding a few at a time.

3).A third and last $1400 dollar Endowment will upgrade the pod and bring it to
max yield and capacity. Here we hope to add even more patients, be able to be
self sustaining, and hopefully be able to at this point be working toward a
second grow pod as a Collective. Bottom line is a low cost option for patients
that's maintained on a sustainable level to help the most potential average
people.While taking as many of those patients that are able and making them as self sustaining as possible with in home grow setups.

Placing our proposal in the very capable hands of my Brothers with a prayer
added.

James and Julie


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## MysticWolf (Jun 17, 2009)

A copy of the Donation letter We send out 

Dear BLANK,

My name is James and I am the public voice for Project Medicine Man here in Montana .

We are a small but committed group of medical patients, and caregivers who started from an Idealistic thought that my caregiver and I had one day, and our ideal is spreading to others in a wonderful way.

The Problem as we see it is: The state of Montana is very forward thinking and allows select qualifying patients access to medicinal herbs. Each patent can also choose a caregiver so if they are ill, or cannot maintain a supply on their own the caregiver can fill that void.

The huge problem is this! The current caregivers in Montana are charging an arm and a leg for those medicinal herbs putting medicine that can save and help many lives out of the reach of the low income and the middle class patients totally. In fact, three of the four caregivers here are owned by one family and their offspring, keeping the prices high.

The Answer as we see it: Project Medicine Man, which we are starting as a collective of patients and caregivers. Our goal is to keep prices low as possible for patients while building a sustainable collective. It is also our hope over time that with any overages that we can grow, that once we reach that sustainable level we can next reach out to the local hospice programs and indigent patients once we get in full swing.

Due to the nature of our project, we can't reach out for a government grant, or even 501 status as other groups or collectives might.



So we are instead having to reach out to good people in the private sector that understand we deeply desire to help patients here in Montana, and that we are all very committed for special reasons like the fact I have MS, and Julie my caregiver has lost family to cancer. "Is our hope Idealistic and Altruistic?&#8221; Yes it very much is, but we all feel the world today needs a little more of that in it.

So what is Our group reaching out for? The Optimal donation on Your part would be BLANK  but any donation would help!



We feel that will get us well started on the road to taking care of 6 patients, and building slowly from there as we hope the project will gain positive momentum.

What can we give back to YOU: Each patient will know of your help in starting the Project Medicine man collective, and be encouraged to check out your site and shop with your company.



Also down the road, we hope to have a website.  When that comes online if YOU wanted to be linked as a supporter we would gladly offer that, though we also know and understand some companies need to stay in the background for specific reasons, like a lab company that is helping Us with part of the distillation equipment so we will be able to make phoenix tears medicine for our patients.

So with that I'll leave our petition for aid in your capable hands with a good thought and prayer added.

Project Coordinator
James 



Lead Care Giver Coordinator

Julie


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## DirtySouth (Jun 17, 2009)

Your tring to do a good thing.Be careful.Your tring to step on the entire states shoes,good luck.I know it shouldn't be this way,but when pockets get thin,the gansters come out to play.I'm not threatning yall in any way.I say good luck.It 's just I don't see them rolling over and just letting you take there money.You do realize that what your thing to do?
 O.k. these guys are making a KILLING.Now some people move from out of state and think they're gonna under cut the locals by like 600 percent.Good luck.


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## MysticWolf (Jun 17, 2009)

Thus far what have We done? 

One Lab company has stepped up to the plate and sent a distillation coil, Nirvana has sent three Medical grade strains of seeds. A Wonderful Cali Grower has sent an Awesomely strong outdoor strain so come spring of next year we will be set to start in a cold frame outdoors as well.

Other Updates We have worked together and built three veg and clone chambers ...Now We are working on 3 Mother plant shelves.

Next on the agenda flowering chambers!!!

I'm betting if Hal looks in on this he will say man your nuts ...Honestly No Hal We are not We are commented and We want to help Ourselves and others like Us that 5 percent or so you spoke of not the entire state...And Yep you guessed it each in the Collective has a vote on which patient We bring in next ....I also gotta comment on the fact that Rick Simpson and His group got me and one other Collective member all the educational materials We needed to be able to make Phoenix Tears and Man do they help my MS allot  Thankyou Rick.

Also We have started a Lending Library of books for those in the Collective they can check out for a month each....as I had to hock my pressure washer to get them....

Hopefully coming soon will be a monthly munch and grow talk at least that is in the works crossing fingers because I think that would be a great Motivator for All Us patients here...

Anyone like to come to MT and Give Grow Tip Talks let Me know.

We also have Our Own Email now [email protected] 

also We have a paypal account so those that want to donate materials and equipment can  go to paypal.com and donate any amount they like to Our dream of a viable Collective here for REAL patient. 

As to Why I'm doing it and helping others too and Why the Collective is being built though I don't talk about My personal views here much if ever I will this once.

I'm a Master and a Teacher and Mentor in the Leather Community I have been for years ..I'm also Cherokee and a Shaman taught by My Teacher Black Eagle ...Lastly I have strong morals values and standards and I believe in doing what is right...My Soulmate ..Yes she is far more than a wife could ever be Julie well her father passed away of cancer ...Had I known about Phoenix tears then We may have been able to keep him here longer ...Also I'm an MS and FMS patient on disability since 99 ...I know what it like to be that patient in the gap and cracks.

So to those that think Our little Collective is Nuts and doomed to fail so be it  to 5 patients so far it is Our hope and Dream of a better more care filled today and tomorrow.

To Big Growers that feel guilty reading this feel fre to hand donate 25 percent of each and every crop to hospice and the indigent in your area or drop Us a donation if you like....Why cause We are Doing not thinking about Doing the Right thing...All others feel free to blast away ...Like I said I'm a Shaman negativity matters little ...Positive action means the world!

James


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## MysticWolf (Jun 17, 2009)

@DirtySouth...I love Ya Bro ...But in all honesty We got no choice and trust Me Bro we are well tucked away ...Besides we don't want their rich patients they are welcome to those...I'm no gangster I'm a Shaman Bro and I can not will not watch folks die in pain ...or live in a quality of life that is as bad as death when it can be easily helped...We are the people in the crack the Gangstas don't want Us cause they can have those Richie Riches all they want all day long Bro.

James


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## MysticWolf (Jun 17, 2009)

Also @DirtySouth...Quote"O.k. these guys are making a KILLING.Now some people move from out of state and think they're gonna under cut the locals by like 600 percent.Good luck."

My Julie is not from out of state she is a born and breed Mt Cowgirl ...Me Well this Southern Boy feel deeply madly in love...Yeah Yeah I know...Julie's Dad now sadly departed said James I see your eyes I know you love this place bring My lil girl home, and I did and I moved heaven and earth to do so...So I was a Country Boy there ...I'm a Country Boy here...Might not be born here but weird as it may sound to many Montana got a living spirit I call her the Maiden of Montana and she and Julie brought Me home to heal me ...Each day here each day with natures good meds I get a little stronger ..sure I still hurt ...Sure I got My ups and downs every MS patient does...And as I see it cause I feel it I'm Home and Great Grand Father expects me to help those in my home...I don't want to save or change the world mind you cause I can't I'm only one man...But if I grow and get others growing and we all share and pay that knowledge forward which is what I'm teaching all in the Collective then as My Teacher would say...I'm not just one man with an Idea ...I'm a Shaman with an Ideal...simply teaching others that an Ideal  Stands and grows if it is pure ....Where any man with an idea can fall in battle...I'm in enough battles I battle MS and FMS in my life daily...But an Ideal that is Pure and Right well that is one of the most powerful forces on earth Bro.

But that's just My 2 cents tossed in the cup while I eat lunch mind you.

James


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## NorCalHal (Jun 19, 2009)

MysticWolf said:
			
		

> Second they don't even call it a reimbursement ...No they call it we are going to charge you $300.dollars an once " Oh and @NorthCalHal all my respects, but that is every caregivers here starting rate..."Yep they have coluded and set the rate" and it goes UP from there WAY up for things like canna butter ,honey oil, kief so on " and your welcome to call and check if you don't believe me.


 
WHAT?? You have out of State folks claiming to be caregivers and they charge $300 a zip to help u grow??? Thats just wrong bro.
Wholesale herb goes from $2500-$4000max. Outdoor is far cheaper when it is in season. Outdoor starts at $1500.


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## MysticWolf (Jun 19, 2009)

I'll answer a question here...Only because I have gotten it allot at Our Project addy mail....and it does Apply to this Thread big time.

What does it take to get one person self sustaining here in MT? 

That's easy ,and it can be put in dollars and sense. If they have some cooling in their place then the price tag is about 500 Dollars.... if they don't have cooling which is common in Mt and We have to add a better larger can fan then 600 dollars...

Also It is at about the 450 dollar mark to set them up at Our Collective grow site if they can not grow at home say because, of kids or, because of a physical challenge ...I also think that price tag can drop as We grow and We start Our second pod because a mass planting pod would be more efficient and I have proposed that to the Group.

So it does not take allot of scratch to help a patient No Sir ... Julie and I have sponsored in 3 patients just by selling off items we did not need ...a pressure washer, a slot machine, an R/c car I built with My son as a project.

Also like I said lots of good and great things are coming down the road for Our Collective .

10 High grade medical seed strains will be a huge help....Yeah Canada Thankyou 

Last night We received a 1000 watt HPS bulb as a donation too ...Yeah Sunshine state Thankyou.

I told one of the Zacks I'd be watching the email and the paypal for the Group this weekend, and send out Thankyou ,and such because I'm so Excited to see What Our Brothers and Sisters in Northern California in the Cana Community with their insight...and Kewl Activism selves put together...So My personal challenge goes out to them... 

Hey Northern California Folks Shout Out!....My Julie and I have personally sponsored 3 patients ,and set up the lending library...I challenge Northern California Folks with their great insight and activism....to Add more books to the lending library,and too also to sponsor 3 more patients as well....I'll let the Northern California folks here on MP board spread the word for Us....

On a side note it would sure be nice to start hearing back from some of these larger companies We have petitioned for aid... That say ...That They so adamantly support Positive efforts in the Canna Community.

Hum thinking maybe We as a Group need to Put up a list of the companies that we write to!... 

Then perhaps a second list of Companies that show Our self sustaining Project their support...

That might Positively influence how people decided to spend their hard earned dollars , and with Whom.

Writing that thought to bring up with the Leaders group.

Oh and one last thing that @NorCalHal brought up....about self sustaining ...Hal what We do is simple if they don't want to put their effort in our group that is kewl ...they do not get voted in...Effort in... gets Effort Out 

Our Rules are very KISS "Keep It Simple Sweetheart"

1. You must have an Mt state MMJ card.

2. You must want to reach some type of a self sustaining level. 

3. You have to take at least 3 classes MMJ a year and read 3 MMJ books a year.

4. 25% of each finished crop has to be donated to the Hospice and Indigent care Collective effort.

5. You must agree to have 2 Bud Buddies.

6. There is to be no exchange for monetary gain outside the Collective.

The One person that tested  rule 6 was caught red handed ,and when asked why he did such a thing in front of  the Leaders group...His issue was getting food for his kids! ...His Flower Unit was pulled... We got him and his family food through the food share here ... and his church ,and We the Collective are supplying his med needs now... while he does 100hrs of Service toward the Collective, and he has deeply learned his lesson, and the error of his ways and will come to the Group before he does something against the rules. 

Also other Collective members learned by example Not to break rule 6...Why because the members themselves asked to amend rule 6 ...They amended it to if rule 6 is broken the Leaders Group can instantly vote that person out at their discretion.  

Why because 3 strikes with the Collective your OUT period. In Mt we are about meaning what we say.... and saying what we mean...You see we got a rock solid playbook... and those are a few of the important highlights... 

I personally feel they keep greed and avarice out of the equation, and keeps the focus on Self Sustainability...but that is just My 2 cents dropped in the cup.

have a great friday 

James


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## MysticWolf (Jun 20, 2009)

@ NorCalHal...Yeppers having sent you a note where many of those hijackers are from and they moved here from your fair state ...Sadly giving many patients here a poor impression ...I guess that is why I'm so adamant about doing things the right way...Honestly Hal sick people should not be held hostage by dollars to get Good meds that will help...Does a Collective need enough cash flow to run and build to a self sustaining place sadly in the world today yes...Me personally I wish barter was still the rule of thumb ....But that is just me 

James


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## NorCalHal (Jun 20, 2009)

I am having a hard time understanding the "caregivers" status in your state.

Are the "caregivers" the folks who opened up dispensaies in your State? Or are they the folks who are actuall "helping" you guys get going?

If they are from out of state and opened a dispensarie, then they are after str8 money and more then likely got shut down here in Cali.

The "Caregiver" clause here in our Law was better defined in an amendment of our Law 215. A person can ONLY be a "caregiver" if that person is ALSO responsible for everyday wellbeing of the person they are "caregiving" for. That means taking that person to Dr.s visits, feeding and daily care. Growing/supplying pot is not a legal caregivers only duties. In court, if arrested, they MUST prove that they do more then grow herb for the person. Just an FYI.

I am actuallly suprised that there are only 3 folks from Cali starting up dispensaries there. I would have guesed alot more. I am sure ther are folks here who are packing thier bags as we speak and heading out east to make some loot.

When the Caregiver Status was clarified by State Law, everything changed. It all went to "Collectives, Co-ops".  A Collective in our State is excatally what you and your friends are doing. BUT, they are all self sustaining as excess herb gets sold off to be distributed among the Collective members.
OK. So, Monies are not just handed over to folks. Alot goes back into the grow. The bigger the collective, the bigger the costs.
IE. Get a Lawyer on retainer bro. $20,000 to start to even feel "safe" would be a good start. Be it that you are following your state laws, the Feds are still out there busting growers,even in Medical States, and actually, more in Medical States as we are not hiding out so much anymore and are more public with what we are doing.

Lets look at the Big picture.

Your collective is 5 folks. Your intention is to teach and make each of your members self sufficiant and to supply each other with cheap herb. This can be done fairly easy and you all should be just fine.
What of the other 1000's of folks who are not part of your Collective? Are they still forced to buy herb on the Black Market? Do they get a choice of the many different strains available to help specific needs? Prob not. They are at the mercy of the street dealer and what he has.

Do not get me wrong man. I think what you are doing is great, but you will see that you and your group will be the minority of Med users in your state.
Most folks will just want an easy,safe location to go and buy herb. They want many choices, and SHOULD be offered those choices. If you get going well and can max out your harvests, how will you distribute the excess you grow?

What I am getting at is maybe you and yours should be the ones operating a Dispensary. You can then control the prices and distribution. If you sell your herb for cheaper, it will drive out the other more expensive dispensaries, trust me.

Again, I am looking at the Big picture. Smaller collectives have thier place, but it still leaves out alot of folks who may have never heard of your collective, or just don't want to be involved in the Growing process.
These folks need consideration too, don't you think?

There are no simple answers and simple fixes. A collective is not the answer to the supply and distribution of MMJ, as a Single collective will NEVER be able to supply all the Med users in any State. As well as they SHOULDN'T.

If one entity was in charge of production for the masses, it is the SAME as the Goverment taking Control. You need Mmany collectives with many different strains and growing techniques in order to give people the choices they deserve. The only way to do that is to have multiple growers.

The Club scene is what is working for us. We are policing them ourselves as patients. Everyone is encouraged to wither join a Collective, or grow themselves. It's commen sense. If you go to a Car dealer and he is charging 10,000 for a car, but another car lot is charging 5,000 for the same car, then the 10,000 car lot will soon lose all of it's customer base, I would hope...

You guys are going to go thru it, and it will get WORSE before it gets better, belive that. Just ENSURE that you, as activists, take control of the clubs and not let the Goverment step in and take control for you. If a Club overcharges, open one up next door and charge half.

I personally see NO other way to distribute herb to 1000's of folks without having athe Goverment take control. We have kept the Goverment from taking control of distribution here, so it can be done.


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## MysticWolf (Jun 20, 2009)

@ NorCalHal...Think you have a hard time defining CareGiver in Our state so do we.

The Laws says and I Quote a patient may grow 6 plants for their use. A Patient may also assign a CareGiver to grow 6 plants for you if you are to ill to grow or maintain a ready supply. Both patient and assigned Caregiver can have on hand one usable ounce for that patient.

Thus Our Hijacker So Called CareGivers stepping in they get assigned they grow and they sell at the 300 dollar an ounce rate that We disabled and crtically ill patients can't afford because we are on disability and such.

Enter Julie and I She is My Real Life Real Daily CAREGIVER ....Back East I was hurting bad more bad days then good ...The air pressure there the humidity the weather was setting off my MS and FMS that I was spending more time down and out then up and active...Julie's work went Belly up with the bad economy...She was able to score a decent job here she enjoys....So We put the house on the market packed all we could in two pickups and one trailer and here we are.

We get settled I Get in the Process of getting my MMJ card ...I start checking out the SO Called CareGivers ...That don't care one hoot and they are only out to help themselves while hurting patients, but that is just My view and 2 cents...

So I check other resources including THVC here in Missoula I meet allot of other Real patients that are just like Me and we are ALL in the same boat...Did We come here wanting to help other folks ...No not really, However I'm a Shaman and a Priest in Black Leather though I'm disabled I help people where and how I can always have always will ...My Julie well she also has strong view her Father passed of cancer ....You have no clue how I wish I had known about Phoenix tears to help him because Hal he was one awesome man .

Never at any time were there dollars and cents talked about the other patients started coming to Me asking what do We do how do We go about it ...How can we make things better here ...Thus the seeds were planted.

5 it was 5 now... it is five patients and their real life caregivers come help too when they can ...so we are 10 folks strong and we are helping out ourselves and reaching out to 4 other patients now as well....and looking at the list there are already 20 plus folks on the waiting list that want in as soon as we can  help them too.  

But that is all I have time for at the moment I'll add more later when I have time 

James


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## NorCalHal (Jun 20, 2009)

So it sounds like the "caregivers" are just after your plant numbers to grow for you, which indeed is just not right. But, without knowledge of growing , they had you over a barrel.
I can clearly see your pessimistic look at how some "caregivers" operate.

I took some time today and read up a bit on your MMJ law. I found it here:
hXXp://www.dphhs.mt.gov/medicalmarijuana/title50chapter46mma.pdf
Change XX to tt.

If I am missing any admendments or this is wrong, please let me know.

Very odd law, imo. The ole "catch 22". Please don't think I am poking fun sir, I am just tryin' to get a understanding of what you are really up against out there in Mt.

So, a patient can have 6 plants, and up to one ounce of herb. One Ounce.?

A Caregiver as defined by your law can be a person whose sole responsibility is to oversee the patients MMJ needs/grow/aquirement and transpportation, as long as it is 6 plants, or again....one ounce.

A Patient may only have ONE caregiver, but there is nothing mentioned about a Caregiver having more then 1 patient. Am I missing something or is the "grey area"?

As far as the requirements for a rec from a Doctor, it is pretty open to most folks. 

What strikes me as odd is how the law opened the door for out of state folks. Not a good thing if you want your own communities to control the image and operation of MMJ. Here is the quote from the law :


			
				MTMedicalMMJLaw said:
			
		

> Under Section 4(8) of the Montana Medical Marijuana Act [Sec. 50-46-201(8), MCA], a registry identification card or its equivalent issued by another state government to permit the medical use of marijuana by a qualifying patient or to permit a person to assist with a qualifying patient's medical use of marijuana has the same force and effect as a registry identification card issued by the department.




Quite suprising. Only Cali recs are legal here, if you are from out of state, you have to go see a doctor and be a resident to be legal. 

cont...


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## NorCalHal (Jun 20, 2009)

Another suprising fact is to be Legal in your State, you MUST register with the Department of health and Human services.
Here, just the actual Dr's rec is the only thing required to be legal. Counties are also, by State law, supposed to issue cards to folks who live in the respective counties, BUT, it is only for Statewide LEO to ensure your rec is legal. But, if you can show a LEO your Dr's rec, that is usually enough, as it is only Voulentary to get your county card.

So, the Caregiver must also register with the State in Mt.

So, what it comes down to in my eyes is what can 1 person legally be in charge of..plant wise. Obviously, the weight "rule" will be broken no mattter what. That fact alone justifies the need for a Lawyer on retainer.
I'll get into that later.

So, from my understanding so far, the grey area is that you can be a caregiver for more then one person correct? Legally, would you have to register yourself as the caregiver for each person in your collective and I am not sure if it would fly with the "dept of Health"?
 Or or you operating as a "community" garden with each member having 6 plants in one location? I assume the latter.

I hope I am not getting too deep in your business man, just giving advice on issues we have been dealing with for years. But each State law is different.

I truly wish u to succeed. You sound like you really care and want to help out folks. Just be sure you are safe and have all your ducks in a row. 
What the issue is, and why I stress legality if you are publicly operating a collective, is that even if it is legal in your State, your Local neighborhood LEO can simply pick up the phone and call in the DEA. I have seen it 1000's of times. Each community will react differently to what you are doing and your image and they way you handle operations will be the key to getting along with whatever community you are in. If they do not accept you, all they have to do is pick up the phone.
I am not trying to scare you at all man, but you need to be aware.

I am SURE you have done your homework, and know what you are doing, so let's get GROWING.

You and yours need to be self sufficiant. You need Great herb/Genetics and the knowledge to go from germination to harvest. Thats what we do here.
Waht are your goals as far as what you need to produce to supply your members? The goals will dictate alot.


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## MysticWolf (Jun 20, 2009)

@NorCalHal...

The weight thing well that's outrageous, but there is a work around on that that THCV and Others let Us on to that works ...But that work around I can not let onto... if I did the bad so called caregivers could use it too and they are not smart enough nor does LEO want them smart enough to figure it out!...But Yes one ounce makes it awful darn hard at moments...and LEO wants it that way. 

As far as legal we have THCV there's no money for retainers however we are hoping an att will pick Us up pro bono we are waiting to hear back ...Is that bad Yes... but I and We choose to help people rather than worrying about legal mumbo jumbo.

Yes We are all on a registry and Public health and Leo work hand in hand there, but it is just to keep the honest man honest...Kinda like the lock on your shed that a thief can easily cut off.

Yeppers you read it right if you carry a card in any state you can come here and be treated like you live here ...It has good and bad sides real patients don't have to worry ...Could somebody abuse that Yeppers.

As far as what We need read Our petition to the club but what it boils down to is seed money to get everything running smooth as a whistle all to buy equipment....We feel three good flower units will get us to a self sustaining level where any monies taken in can go toward adding equipment and meeting future needs as We started in a hole....That means tents lights fans ducting , a few meters would be nice a ph and a trench the group can share use of...I know soil so We are using soil ....but I'm teaching myself hydro ...Not fun but I'm getting there...Real nutes would be nicety,  but till then I'm brewing tea ...Let Me tell you using a pool test kit before and after for run off is getting old fast....Books too Lots of books for the lending library old or new works! Education is fundamental. 

As far as LEO , Montana Mountain Lions got hearts ,and they kick some serious butt too...We have short of the highest respect for them, But We Outreach you'd be surprised what a good convo over coffee helps out.

Now Hal I got to get back to work dinner breaks darn near over.

Good stuff


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## MysticWolf (Jun 25, 2009)

June 25th 

Yesterday was a rough pain day ...but I got home to some parts and pieces on my doorstep and though My left side is acting up I gave a few calls and others are looking over the pod today...and I stayed in and built an easy cloner knock off ...put a cutting in it and lets give her 5 or so days and see if I did my job right amazing what a dremel tool and a 4 gallon bucket and ultrasonic mister can do put together just right ..Guess we shall see if I learned all I hope I did from that last book Crossing fingers for the Collective. 

James out


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## MysticWolf (Jul 10, 2009)

Friday July 10th.

Finally I get to take a breath mercy but we have all been working like gang busters We are up to 3 solid sets of 5 strain mothers around the Collective ...We all voted and feel like if We have three sets and something bad goes wrong one place we can switch roll and move and 5 good strains should cover most things.

Donations received We got in the 1000 watt HPS lamp one Awesome person sent Yeahh Thankyou Flordia ...

My parents are even being supportive of what We are trying to do and are sending 2 more books for the lending library Thanks Mom and Dad you Rock.

Those are the highlight except for one thing I found some old canna books from the 1800's and slightly before in the back of a thrift store picked them up for I think it was 5 bucks total ...Did a lot more self educating ...man have I come up with a tincture recipe ...Working with some trim and stems and stuff just from shaping up plants....but everyone who has tried it loves this stuff...Them old folks knew some stuff ...I've tweaked it over 5 batches now I can make it every time ...They have taken to calling it Rocket fuel ...one teaspoon swished under your tongue then swallowed or poured in say a pop ...Deep body aches fall away fast in like 10 mins your energy goes up and through the room ...Mental boom your right there and alert acute and dialed in ...Oh yeah and it ain't a fluke I got a recipe that has done the exact same thing each of the last 3 batches...and one teaspoon full lasts 6 to 8 hours....

Needs a better name then rocket fuel though...

Well that's about all for this friday 

James out


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## DirtySouth (Jul 10, 2009)

MysticWolf said:
			
		

> Friday July 10th.
> 
> Finally I get to take a breath mercy but we have all been working like gang busters We are up to 3 solid sets of 5 strain mothers around the Collective ...We all voted and feel like if We have three sets and something bad goes wrong one place we can switch roll and move and 5 good strains should cover most things.
> 
> ...


 

James,whats up w/ the reciepe?Don't hold back!


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## NorCalHal (Jul 11, 2009)

I am trimmin' today with a good friend who makes that "tincture". His process takes over 2months and he uses all natural oils for the breakdown. I know he has to shake the jar everyday, so it is also a tedious process.
I will ask him his "recipe" and post it up.


Good to hear you have your mothers going strong, as that is the key...good genetics and healthy plant stock.

Keep up the good work!


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## MysticWolf (Jul 11, 2009)

Thanks Hal ...Yeppers We are working on it here it is rather a togetherness project ...As far as the tonic yes slower is better even in Native American lore ...But till We get enough coming off at a time it is hand to mouth for We patients so I had to do down dirty and fast but good ...Plus modern science says you only need 1 min in alcohol to have all the vitals....Me in just My opinion I think longer is better ...Bottom line I think there is more magic and healing in those plants then science has yet found...Though that is just my two cents as a Shaman.

Have a great day I'll look forward to hearing his recipe 

James


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## NorCalHal (Jul 27, 2009)

So how's the Poject going?


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## MysticWolf (Jul 28, 2009)

Actually Hal pretty good so far I call it strong but small as We are a core unit of motivated folks...

We were actually very blessed to gain another doctor that deeply believes in what we are doing and we are educating him on cannabis,and that Doc is in turn trying get the local hospital on board to help us and Us help them as a viable alternative.

We have had a few little glitches at the pod but nothing huge now when we take clones and they are ready to move into veg in a pod we dip them to protect from fungus bacteria and disease in Einstein oil and water dip.

WE are kind of hand to mouth on supply and demand for all patients so we are pushing for each patient to also have a home unit to grow in thus I'm building My Cab and I'm helping two other patients work on home units as well ...

Others in the group have been working on our 25 percent fair share program where each patient and the pod donates 25% of each grow to Hospice and Indigent care ....They project they will have it fully written by the end of the week so the Leaders can sit and discuss it and suggest changes if needed.

Right now the breakdown has been 25 percent to hospice but the new split as I head an advance read is going to include Indigent folks that want to join and a percentage of meds banked for immediate need say for chemo patients.

Well that is about all for the moment 
James Out and back to work 

Oh and I'm feeling like I have a much better quality of life on the canna now that I'm up to a 3/4 dose a day.


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## MysticWolf (Aug 13, 2009)

Hum they want Me to go teach at the local hospital in an open form for patients ...I like it and it is a good idea but I want to wait till the lawyer giving Us a hand talks to Me so I make sure I'm not going to get in trouble...Better safe then sorry they always say ...Things at the pod are going like gangbusters but man do we need more equipment! 

James Out


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