# trying to save money, need help



## mrkingford (May 8, 2009)

After becoming disabled my income went down quite a bit, now of course i'm not about to cut down on my "medicine" if you will.
So i germinated about 25 seeds from my last bag of commercial weed in wet paper towels in a sandwich bag and got 11 nice ones after 3 days.
I planted them in 9" pots, some with miracle grow organic potting soil and some with miracle grow "double the growth" potting soil.
I covered them with saran wrap and placed them in a room with a thermostat heater set at 79 degrees and a fan on at all times. i have a 4 foot fluorescent light 5 inches above them on 18/6. So far 6 came up and one in actually 3 inches tall !!
I only water them with bottled water.
Questions;
1) how much do i water? and how often?
2) am i missing anything? doing anything bad or wrong?
3) do i NEED to buy better lights or can i grow with the 4 foot flurescent?

Any assistance would be appreatiated, thank you in advance.


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 8, 2009)

you can start with that light, but you'll definitely need to upgrade. And MG anything isnt really good for MJ, so for future reference would go the the "references" section in this forum and read the guides. Will answer pretty much every question if your patient enuff to read thru them.


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## mrkingford (May 8, 2009)

And MG anything isnt really good for MJ


Why do you say that? What exactly is wrong with MG? It cost 13.57 for the one bag ang 9.98 for the small organic bag. 
Dam, what is better and why?
P.S. you may have guessed that this is my 1st ever grow in over 23 years of smoking. 
I learned what i know now by watching videos on you tube.

And what kind of lights will i need and when and how much are they?
Again, thanks in advance


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 8, 2009)

It's in the whole "time release nutes" thing. The Nutes in it are for general houseplants. And MJ requires different nutes at different stages of growth. I grew my first time in MG, and did ok, but now I make my own soil mix. You'll eventually need to get a High Pressure Sodium light for flowering, and most would recomend a Metal Halide for veg.


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## pcduck (May 8, 2009)

Most people here do not like MG. Check out The Brothers Grunts threads he is a MG grower

MG is usable just not the best for seedlings.

Get you light closer. you need 5000 lumens/sqft

When watering: No nutes for a long time, wait to dry, then drench.

Also check my candy grow is MG soil


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## mrkingford (May 8, 2009)

Lowes has HPS light for 19.98 per 400 watt bulb. 
What kind of "housing" unit does it require?
Do i need a ballist? I read about these but don't understand them.
WHen do i switch from veggie to flowering?
help,lol


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## pcduck (May 8, 2009)

Yes it needs a ballasts(housing)
Switch whenever you want to 12/12


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## mrkingford (May 8, 2009)

Switch whenever you want to 12/12

?? at 12" or 30 days or ?

does the ballist come with the housing unit, and what is the average cost?


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## Lemmongrass (May 8, 2009)

the ballast will cost you about $100. hood, another 30-150. you can find cheap kits with a whole 400w setup for about 120.

you need a bulb, ballast, hood, socket, and cord. it ends up being cheaper to buy a set most times. look on goodly HTG + 400w. im pretty sure they have a nice setup for about $120. thats honestly as best as it will get.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 8, 2009)

You really need to do some reading--you are going to need more/better light and some fans for ventilation and air circulation.  You are going to need a light tight space when you put your plants into flowering.  When you put them into flowering is generally determined by how much space you have.  The longer you let it veg (within reason), the larger the plant and the more bud you will harvest.  However, keep in mind that many sativas will double or triple in size once put into 12/12.  The size HPS you need is also determined by the size of your space.  You are going to want 5000 lumens per sq ft when flowering.  A 400W is good for about 8-10 sq ft.


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

well, it's the am again and 10 of my 11 germinated seeds sprouted.
One is 4" already after 2 days breaking dirt and most others are 2-3".
There is one that barely broke ground and does'nt seem to be growing, should i pull it?
Other than that they look good. I'll try and post some pics later when my wife gets home from work, as i am computer illiterate (somewhat).
Maybe i can get more advice then.
Thanks so far for all your replies.


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## Hick (May 9, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> You really need to do some reading--you are going to need more/better light and some fans for ventilation and air circulation.  You are going to need a light tight space when you put your plants into flowering.  When you put them into flowering is generally determined by how much space you have.  The longer you let it veg (within reason), the larger the plant and the more bud you will harvest.  However, keep in mind that many sativas will double or triple in size once put into 12/12.  The size HPS you need is also determined by the size of your space.  You are going to want 5000 lumens per sq ft when flowering.  A 400W is good for about 8-10 sq ft.



:yeahthat:.... --> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9396


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 9, 2009)

I wouldnt pull it or mess with any of them. Just keep the light pretty close on em (but watch the heat, you can fry a seedling in minutes) and read up on here. Good luck man!


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

actually, it looks like it is slowly growing now, i thought it might be dead, but it was most likely a seed that was'nt as germinated as well as some others.
i'm taking pics now, lets see if i can fiqure out how to post them, lol.


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## LassChance (May 9, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> And MG anything isnt really good for MJ
> 
> 
> Why do you say that? What exactly is wrong with MG? It cost 13.57 for the one bag ang 9.98 for the small organic bag.
> ...




Bless your heart!
Im doing my first "serious" grow, too and like you, I sprang for the big bag od MG, not knowing any better!  OK, NEXT time we'll get something better.  Meantime, if you cant afford to swith soils, the plants will still make it--remember it IS a WEED, and a tough little muther.
Now last year I grew 10 plants in Miracle Grow under a four foot flo JUST LIKE YOU and YES I got over an oz of damn potent bud.  It was light and fluffy, no heavy dense buds...but it worked FINE. How good was the weed you took the seeds from? You will get that same quality, but light, fluffy buds. "Why only ONE oz from TEN plants", you ask?  LOL...because my OTHER mistake was, I grew em in little bitty 16 oz plastic cups...sigh. So, each plant was only about 14-16" tall at completion.
In other words, I made every mistake you've made PLUS a few more! and STILL got some mighty fine smoke. (My one saving grace was I had good seeds--Im hoping yours are, too.

Now here's something you could consider, as I have.  OK--we both bought MG soil. Im on disability too, and I know how tight the money is. BUT....

soon as my present 10 are big enough to clone Im planning on putting the clones in Hempy Buckets--no more MG soil! Perlite and vermiculite are relatively cheap, if you get the BIG bags. If you havent heard of the Hempy method, google that, too, LOL. It's a...mind blower.

Have no fear!  You WILL get  perfectly smokable buds of the same quality as the mother stash...just light and airy buds. In the meantime, you can start saving for a HPS. Look on ebay, Craig's list...

You'll do fine.

Lass


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

its says my file exceeds the limit. It wont upload and i surely don't know how to resize, dam.    It's a jpg file and has 2.11 mb per pic and i'm only allow 4.88 kb, per the instructions.


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

Lasschance;

Thanks for making me feel like i'm not the only one who ******* up.
As far as the seeds go, well honestly the weed is commercial and only so so.
I didn't want to buy exspensive seeds till i knew i could grow without ****** them up and wasting money.
And my seeds are in in 9" pots.


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## LassChance (May 9, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> its says my file exceeds the limit. It wont upload and i surely don't know how to resize, dam.    It's a jpg file and has 2.11 mb per pic and i'm only allow 4.88 kb, per the instructions.



Here ya go!  This will tell you how to re-size your pics.


http://www.marijuanapassion.com/how_to_upload_pictures.html


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

I downloaded thePicasa 3 for resizing the pics, and i can't find the picasa3 file anywhere on my computer, i frigin HATE computers!


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## Lemmongrass (May 9, 2009)

hey man paint resizes. open your pic in it, hold control and press W. make the top 2 boxes 50%-20%. when i take pics i do 30 and it makes them roughly 1000x1000. then save as a jpg.


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## Super Silver Haze (May 9, 2009)

good luck with your grow.  everyone makes mistakes when they start, research all you can and you will minimize your mistakes.  if nothing else, your in the right place to learn.


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

LOTEK,

Your the best !! Thanks for your help with the resizing.

Here are my plant pics taken 3 hours ago.
Please advise,
           Thanks


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

The miller lite bucket was planted on 5/4 and is 4" tall.
The 5 black 9" pots have 1 plant each in them planted on 5/6, in the am.
They are 2 inches so fasr.
The long green planter box has 5 but only 4 came up, they are about 1 inch so far, and were planted on 5/6 in the pm.


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

Here are some photos just taken. This is a few buds from my bag weed. Any guess's on what it is?


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 9, 2009)

Take the plant out of the metal bucket and put into a plastic one.  Make sure all your containers have adequate drainage.  I would also recommend getting some kind of enclosure around your plants that is covered in mylar, panda film or painted flat white to reflect the light back.  You are loosing a lot of your light (and you are underlit as it is).


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

All of the pots have drainage holes at the bottom including the metal one. I also have 1-2" of stone at the bottom, prior to putting the dirt in each for drainage.
I also have tin foil as you can see in the one photo, on top of the dirt in the metal bucket to reflect the light upwards. Should i do this for all the plants?
I thought the 4ft. fluresant was good enough for vegging? no?


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## JBonez (May 9, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> And MG anything isnt really good for MJ
> 
> 
> Why do you say that? What exactly is wrong with MG? It cost 13.57 for the one bag ang 9.98 for the small organic bag.
> ...



MG doesnt contain the proper npk for marijuana, not to mention, when it comes time to flush, if the soil is pre nuted, then your gonna have problems since more watering just releases more ferts.

Read up on this site, youtube is ok, but go to the home page here and watch the videos, read the sticky's and do some homework, itll pay off later, trust me.

you're gonna need more light for when those plants get better, at least some  more floros at least.


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## JBonez (May 9, 2009)

also, when watering, ive def learned that you dont need to soak the entire pot, it looks like youve watered correctly, around the rootball.

you want to water around the root ball to sustain the plant for at least a day or two.

More waterings with less amounts is a pain in the butt, but it will keep those roots rich in oxygen which is paramount to growth.


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

Ok, i accept the fact i need a better veggie light. The one i use now was only 8.99 at ace plus 3.99 for the 2 bulbs. No big loss.
What's the CHEAPEST way to go? A metal haliode?
Does that require a ballist like a hps does?
What size do i need and what type of socket does it screw into?, if its a 20.00 bulb and a cheap 10.00 socket, i can do that, if not please advise.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 9, 2009)

The nutrients we use on mj generally do not go well with metal buckets.  I am also never sure that the metal is not leaching off into my plants.

I would look into a T5 flouro tube set up.  The 54W tubes put out 5000 lumens each.  Get rid of the foil--it is a poor reflector of light.  Also the underside of the leaves do not need or use light.  The foil here is useless.  You need an enclosure around the plants to reflect the light back to the plants.  You need to do this regardless of what kind of lighting you are using.  Paint the walls FLAT white and save the foil for cooking or making hats.

I know that money is tight for you, but you are attempting to "manufacture" a product that is $300-400 an ounce on the street.  You are going to have to put a little money into this if you hope to get anything out of it.


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

What is a T5 flouro tube and where do you buy it and how much is it?
Also, i read and saw elsewhere the foil is good and the underneath of the leaves do need light. is that wrong?
It seems that the foil does reflect well to my eye, but why do you say it is not good?
And my wife won't go for repainting the room flat white, what else can i use?


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## JBonez (May 9, 2009)

check out a hyrdoponics website and navigate around it, you will get an idea of how much this sport can cost, but if you are thrifty, you can make due, but like THG sais, if you want premo, then the plant needs primo attention and a primo environment!


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## Real78 (May 9, 2009)

Sorry to say this but man you are in the wrong area if you want to save money. I already spent around 1000.00 for everything I almost need and still need to spend about another 300-800 dollars to be happy with my set up.  You maybe able to grow a small amount but you are going to need to threw some of that money back in to be able to get a nice amount back.

I am not trying to start anything I am just letting you know. Oh, and listen to THG she knows what she is talking about she helped me out a lot.

Have a good one and be safe.


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## mrkingford (May 9, 2009)

Don't get me wrong, i dont mind spending money if i'm saving money bye growing not buying 400.00 - 500.00 month.
I just want to buy right the first time as cheap as i can.
Plus, this 1st grow was bag seed and its only my 1st experiment, so the yeild is not important, the advice along the way is.
Thanks to all so far, will keep the thread posted daily with pics.


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

Yippy, with my bare eye i can just barely see a second set of leaves forming on my 3 day old plant !!!!! As of now, this post, it's only been 80 hours out of the dirt ( sprouted above ground ). Is this good? I hope so.


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 10, 2009)

Get that four foot flouro tube closer than that man! I use a 4' flouro tubes just like those at that stage, and it works fine.....as long as you keep it close.


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

Ok, how close do i get it. It's is about 4-5 inches off the top of the tallest plant.
Also, can anyone tell me what kind of strain this might be from the pics of the plant and the buds of weed?
         Thanks in advance


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 10, 2009)

I have mine almost touchin em.....those tubes shouldnt give off hardly any heat. Just watch and make sure your lil ones dont look like theyre wilting or anything. Once your plants start growin you'll have to rearrange them almost daily in height, from tallest to shortest in a row right under it like you have them, that way you can raise the light up more on the taller plant side, and they'll all still be close to the light. This constant maintenance is ok now, as you prolly cant wait to touch/play with them at this stage, but when you get more seasoned a Metal Halide will help, more coverage and penetration means less moving plants and lights.


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

I just lowered the light to about 1 inch. Put my hand directly under the bulbs and their not hot at all. Also they are just regular flu. bulbs NOT t5's.
Does a metal halide screw into a regular socket? or does it need a ballist?
Any idea on what type of plant strain it is? I'll take a photo and upload it in a minute.


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 10, 2009)

As stated before, you need for either MH OR HPS : bulb,ballast, hood/housing/reflector. And also as stated, it's prolly cheapest to buy the whole set or kit as opposed to trying to piece one together. Or you could do like I did and find a "sponsor" .


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

Any ideas on strain?


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 10, 2009)

And usually it's impossible to tell a mature plant in full flowers strain, only whether it's Sativa or Indica dominant, let alone a seedlings. But I'm gonna give it a go and say it's an unknown bagseed strain likely to contain many bad phenos you'll wanna weed out......


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

Have no idea what you just said (bad phenos), but after this grow and buying all my proper lights, i'll buy nice feminized seeds and do it right. Imagine if i spent 100 on seeds now and mess them up, so bag seed will do for this grow as a learning tool.


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 10, 2009)

Yuppers, its what I learned on.....get your setup dialed in, then get good genetics


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 10, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> What is a T5 flouro tube and where do you buy it and how much is it?
> Also, i read and saw elsewhere the foil is good and the underneath of the leaves do need light. is that wrong?
> It seems that the foil does reflect well to my eye, but why do you say it is not good?
> And my wife won't go for repainting the room flat white, what else can i use?



This may sound harsh, but if you have no idea what a T5 is, you haven't done nearly enough reading on lighting.  The people here are willing to help you, but we cannot put your entire grow together for you.

Foil does not reflect well.  Whoever told you that it is good, is incorrect.  Just because something looks like it reflects well, does not mean that it does.  http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13851

The underside of the leaves do not need light.

I am not talking about repainting your room--you need to build or buy a box or other enclosure for your plants.  That box or enclosure is going to need ventilation.  When plants are put into flowering, they need 12 hours of absolute uninterrupted darkness (for 2-3 months).  Go to the growroom section and do some reading.

Also, you may want to do more reading on fem seeds before you decide that is the way to go.  There is no way to tell strain from looking at the plants or bud.  There are literally thousands of strains and crosses.


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

I am reading up as much as possible. I do understand now the difference between the differents lights and lumens needed for vegging and for flowering.
I guess you tube "know it alls", don't actually know it all.
Thanks for the continued help.
I'm trying to price out the different choices and set a realistic budget while not skimping on quality.
I guess i was getting ahead of myself when i stated i would buy feminized seeds, that wil be a choice for a later time, when i get through this 1st grow.
I actually have a 2nd 4ft. flu. shop light in my garage i can clean and bring in and add to the one thats already there. 
Would that help any?


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## Real78 (May 10, 2009)

I would get a package set up as it is cheaper in the long run. Check out THG Supply that is where I picked up most of my set up. Also if you have about 80 dollars build yourself a DWC which you can grow faster every two month once you get them set up right. Build yourself one DWC and one Cloner and you should be good to go for a while.

If you buy fans make sure you buy HIGH OUTPUT in-line fans you will thank me when you do. I picked up just some in-line fans and man that was a waste of money so now I have to save up for HIGH OUTPUT in-line fans.

Make sure you cheap out the DIY part of this forum you will save a lot of money that way by building it yourself


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

As far as a fan goes, right now i run a house fan on low a couple hours a couple times a day plus i have a digital thermostat portable heater that keeps it at 78-80 degrees.
I guess my next step is to just watch em and wait 4 weeks til i can flower them?


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## pcduck (May 10, 2009)

I would run the fan 24/7

Instead of using a heater I would just add more lights

And you really do need to do a lot more reading up, other wise you are going to be prone to failure.

Unless you are going to be moving this grow outside, I don't see it seceding.


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## mrkingford (May 10, 2009)

I need a heater in that room, i live in Maine, it's 41 degrees now at 3:13 pm, and i'm not going to keep my whole house heater at 78.
As far as the lights go, i can't use them for heat as they are flu. and don't put off heat.
I will run the fan all the time from now on, and as far as reading goes, i watched just about every video on youtube and read many things here and elsewhere, and you know what, everyone has different opinions and insist others don't work. Some say "it's weed, it will grow regardless", others say you MUST have excact light,nutes,heat,humidity,etc,etc.
All i know is it only cost me so far 39.00 TOTAL!, and i have 10 small plants.
I will keep reading and taking suggestions through this grow and i will start to buy the right supplies for the next grow, again, the yeild this time is not so important as the learning along the way.


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## trophy_1 (May 11, 2009)

OK, here's how I grow about 8 ounces every two months on the cheap.

My biggest investment was my HPS for flower, you can get a 400w from HTG for about $150 shipped with timer and hangers.  The 400 watt will give you decent yields without alot of heat issues.  Also not a big hit on the electric bill.

I veg under 4 40w flouros, I took a large piece of cardboard and spray painted it flat white and made a wrap around for vegging.  I keep the lights about an inch from the tops of my plants.

Soil, I've been using basic hyponix from walmart, it has no nutrients added but tends to get compacted so I mix in perlite to help keep it airy and drain well.  

Nutrients, I use Miracle grow for veg then switch too General Hydroponics Maxi Bloom for flower.

I do a perpetual grow with separate areas for veg and flower.  So I have a new batch vegging while I have a batch in my flower closet.  So my flower closet always has plants in it.

I built a DIY bubbler cloner to do clones to keep new plants going for the next cycle.  When you find a plant you like keep one of the clones for a mother plant to take future clones from.

I started with bag seeds like you till I got my system working, yes it is possible to grow some quality smoke from bagseed.  You will probably encounter some hermies along the way though.  

I take a couple clones from every plant I start from seed so I can keep its genetics going if it is a good one.  You just need to keep everything well labeled.


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## mrkingford (May 11, 2009)

tropy 1;

That was the best explaination for me to understand !
Actually, the way you grow is what i wish to do eventually.
Veg some while flowering others. The yeild is ONLY for me, as my wife does not smoke, so 1/2oz. a week is more than plenty.

Can you possibly post any of your pics to give me a better idea of the proper set up.?
Also, this morning the plants looked great and another leaf set if starting to form. They seem to be growing steadily. 
I must admit, i am confused about the next step,
NUTES.
I know i'll need them for flowering, so i better start reading up now.
I am using MG for vegging.
Thanks for the feed back.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 11, 2009)

Fluoro do put out heat.  In fact, lumen for lumen they out off more heat than a HPS.  You would be far better off running more lights 24/7 than putting a heater in there.  The light will actually contribute to growth.  The heater just keeps your plants from freezing.  A new light can do the same thing.  I also live in a cold climate and we are still getting hard freezes at night.   

The people that tell you that "it is just a weed and will grow" are most likely producing a very mediocre product.  Quality bud takes time, effort, knowledge, and money.


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## pcduck (May 11, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> I need a heater in that room, i live in Maine, it's 41 degrees now at 3:13 pm, and i'm not going to keep my whole house heater at 78.
> As far as the lights go, i can't use them for heat as they are flu. and don't put off heat.
> I will run the fan all the time from now on, and as far as reading goes, i watched just about every video on youtube and read many things here and elsewhere, and you know what, everyone has different opinions and insist others don't work. Some say "it's weed, it will grow regardless", others say you MUST have excact light,nutes,heat,humidity,etc,etc.
> All i know is it only cost me so far 39.00 TOTAL!, and i have 10 small plants.
> I will keep reading and taking suggestions through this grow and i will start to buy the right supplies for the next grow, again, the yeild this time is not so important as the learning along the way.




Hey buddy all we are trying to do is for you to get the most for your buck. Without the waste of resources, the cost is the same for failure as it is for success. Yes a lot of stuff is opinionated but in most cases that opinion is from experience:aok:.  Good luck with your grow. :bolt::bong2:


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## mrkingford (May 11, 2009)

THG;

I have been doing much reading in the last 24 hours. Your last statement, "Quality bud takes time, effort, knowledge, and money.",
PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP!!!!!!
I only want to grow enough for me to enjoy, not to profit from or anything else. 
I think possibly for me the best way is to buy 4  4ft. T5 54 watt lights for vegging as they are cheaper and dont require a ballist and buy a 400 watt hps kit from htg supply ( i've benn surfing their web site all morning, learning) and build a flower room in the closet in that room and keep the vegging outside of that room. I will also build an enclosure covered with mylar for vegging and cover the closet walls with it. 
Currently i'm trying to learn about what nutes i need, how and when to add them and where to buy them.
WOW, it's a lot to learn, i thought i was done school after my 2nd degree, lol.
Dam, i wish one of those was in botany,lol !!!!
More pics to come, i'll take them after i'm done this beer, and a smoke of course.


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## mrkingford (May 11, 2009)

pcduck;

Please take no offence, i was merely overwhelmed at all the different styles and ways to do this. I do thank you and everyone else for your help.
trial an error costs too much, for me at least, so i'll continue to soak in the advice from those of you that had sucess already, prior to spending my money, as the money is going to come from the sale of some of my personnel items, once i'm ready and sure of my next steps.
As i stated prior, i'm not cheap, JUST ON A FIXED BUDGET.


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## mrkingford (May 11, 2009)

I turned off the lights for a second to take the pic.
How do they look?
Only 3-4 days above ground.


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## Friend-of-a-friend (May 11, 2009)

keep that light pretty much right on top of em.Nearly touchin em.


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## D3 (May 11, 2009)

Lower the light even more, they are stretching like crazy. It sounds like your trying to get all your ducks in a row to prevent any future problems. This wont happen, your going to have problems. Things just happen. I have a couple of things happen every grow, you just deal with the problems as they come. Sometimes, the best way to learn is by doing.


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## mrkingford (May 11, 2009)

I just called around my area and found T5 54 watt bulbs but their 14.94 each plus tax.......on HTG website they are only 19.95 for 4 of them and 14.95 for shipping.  So 35.00 vs. 65.00 is an easy choice. I'll probly order them as soon as i can. I hope they don't break during shipping.
In the mean time i'll have to suffer with what i have, like i said, it's bag weed, and a learning experience.
But it would be nice to get high from something i grew, even if only a little bit.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 11, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> THG;
> 
> I have been doing much reading in the last 24 hours. Your last statement, "Quality bud takes time, effort, knowledge, and money.",
> PRETTY MUCH SUMS IT UP!!!!!!
> ...



I think the 4' 4 tube T5 is a good way to go--that is what I run for vegging.  _*Every fluoro and HID require a ballast to operate.*_  Some lights have the ballast incorporated into the bulb (CFLs), some have the ballasts enclosed within the fixture (fluoro tube fixtures like the T5 and smaller HIDs), and some have the ballasts entirely separate (most larger HID lights), but they all require a ballast.

Before you buy a light, post a link and let others advise you if it is what you need.  I would recommend an air cooled reflector.  How big is your flowering space going to be?  A 400W HPS is good for a space about 3 x 3.  I am also a big fan of Panda film over mylar.  Mylar needs to be hung without wrinkles to reflect well.  It is thin, tears easily, generally cannot be reused, and does not wash well.  IMO, flat white paint is superior to wrinkly mylar.

Your plants are stretching really bad.  Get the light closer and get a fan on them to strengthen the stems.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (May 11, 2009)

Get that plant out of the metal bucket.  The nutes can interact with the metal.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 11, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> I just called around my area and found T5 54 watt bulbs but their 14.94 each plus tax.......on HTG website they are only 19.95 for 4 of them and 14.95 for shipping.  So 35.00 vs. 65.00 is an easy choice. I'll probly order them as soon as i can. I hope they don't break during shipping.
> In the mean time i'll have to suffer with what i have, like i said, it's bag weed, and a learning experience.
> But it would be nice to get high from something i grew, even if only a little bit.



You cannot just buy the bulbs.  You need the fixture.  You cannot just slap the T5 bulbs into any old fixture that you have laying around.  

Post here before you buy anything.  You still have some misconceptions of how these fluoro and HID lights operate.


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## mrkingford (May 11, 2009)

THG;

Ok, so i'm REAL neverous about this but i did it as you can see in the pic.
But i trust your opinion and stature here. Should i water it?

I also raised the planters with the clays (for target shooting) that i have.
I cant get any closer than that to the light. The ones in the green box will have to make due i'm afraid til i can get more lights.

Also i did not think that a can of cheap FLAT white paint was better than tin foil or mylar, another lesson learned. 

As far as the T5s go, i can't put them into the 8.99 hood i bought from ace hardware last week? ( also i did not know that all bulbs have ballists, thanks, i learned another thing today).
I have the box and can read the specs if you need it or give you the part# to look up if need be.
I also have the fan on now toward the plants, i thought the breeze directly on them this early would hurt them, but again, i'll take your advice.


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## mrkingford (May 11, 2009)

I was just on dr. chronics web site and was viewing AK47 auto flowering seeds for 50.00. They claim to yeild 30-50 grams indoors while taking only 70 days from seeds to finish?
I never read anything like this anywhere else. Whats the deal?
Thats seems to be a great deal if its true,lol. It states they flower on a TIME frame rather than a light schedule.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 11, 2009)

Yes, autos flower on a time schedule rather than a light schedule.  I am not a fan of autos--ruderalis (from Wikipedia:  Ruderalis sometimes known as "ditch weed" can be seen growing at the side of the road...).  

There are many people here who grow them for their fast flowering times.  Take yield estimates with a grain of salt.  These are generally yields that you can expect only if you have really optimum growing conditions and some experience under your belt.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 11, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> THG;
> 
> Ok, so i'm REAL neverous about this but i did it as you can see in the pic.
> But i trust your opinion and stature here. Should i water it?
> ...



Okay, put the green planter on some bricks or something like that to raise the planter.

Actually, try to look for a good quality flat white paint.  It will generally have higher reflectivability.

No, you cannot just put your T5 bulbs in any old fluoro fixture.  The number after the T denotes the size of the tube in 8th of an inch.  For example a T5 is 5/8" in diameter, a T8 is 8/8" or 1", a T12 is 12/8" or 1-1/2".  T5 bulbs need a fixture designed to take a T5 bulb.


----------



## trophy_1 (May 11, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> tropy 1;
> 
> That was the best explaination for me to understand !
> Actually, the way you grow is what i wish to do eventually.
> ...


Click the link in my signature its a grow log of my first grow from about a year ago, there are some pics of my setup in there, not much has changed, since then.

One piece of advice on the MG is go easy with it.  Start out about quarter strength and slowly increase from there.  I generally feed about every third watering.  Also don't over do the watering.  

I use rain water to water my plants because the ph from my tap is too high.  Test your water with ph strips or get a ph meter.

My yield is more than enough for the two of us, we actually give some away and still have enough for us.  Its really nice to have quality smoke and not having to pay for it or go looking for it when your usual supplier is out.

Right now we are growing Purple Cindy from Highgrade and its awesome.  Just harvested a plant lastnite.   Its definitely the most potent stuff I've ever smoked and it smells like citrus fruit.

Just keep reading and learning you will find conflicting info at times but as you read and learn the you will find a consensus on the basics of growing MJ.


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## Trafic (May 11, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> I never read anything like this anywhere else. Whats the deal?




This is from the top of the General Indoor Growing page.  http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32210

After reading this you need to go to the grow journal section and read up on all of the auto grows (there are a ton of them going on).

You really need to look around this forum a lot more.


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## mrkingford (May 12, 2009)

Wow, lots of new info, thanks.
Funny enough, after i lowered the lights to 1", this morning i noticed the plant leaves are much broader and the stem seemed to be more sterdy.
They don't seem to want to strech as they were, i thought they would be touching the lights when i woke up this morning but their not, it seems their growing fatter leaves and stems instead. Most plants have started showing a 3rd set of leaves. 
As far as T5's go, i'll guess i'll post here prior to buying anything, and i guess buying a complete unit instead of trying to piece together one would be best for me.
The auto flowering plants seemed to good to be true. Mu luck and i would only yeild a joint per plant,lol.

The green planter CAN'T be raised as you suggested, i tryed it and it puts the plants in the shade, no light hits them at all when raising them!
They are leaning a bit to the light, but otherwise look healthy and have shorter fatter stems and smaller leaves than the others.

Trophy 1; you stated to go easy with the MG? I have no idea what you mean.
From what i understand, i need to starts nutes at the time i flower which gives me a few weeks to learn.
Can you provide a web site or list of nutes needed?, or a link to using them.

And i read through your 1st grow, nice, real nice, i learned a lot.


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## docfishwrinkle (May 12, 2009)

one trick 4 spindly plants is to up root them & plant them down in the dirt. bury them about .5" from soil to 1st set of leaves. this will give em strength. in addition 2 lowering lights.


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## trophy_1 (May 13, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> Trophy 1; you stated to go easy with the MG? I have no idea what you mean.
> From what i understand, i need to starts nutes at the time i flower which gives me a few weeks to learn.
> Can you provide a web site or list of nutes needed?, or a link to using them.
> 
> And i read through your 1st grow, nice, real nice, i learned a lot.


When you first start feeding your plants miracle grow during the veg phase start out mixing it at 1/4 strength then slowly mix stronger solutions on subsequent feedings.  If you give it to them full strength at first you can burn up your little ones.

I usually don't feed plants in veg that start from seed until the 3rd or fourth week and then just start them out with a quarter strength solution the first feeding or two then bump it up to half strength.  

I usually veg for 8 - 10 weeks so by week 6 or 7 I'm up to full strength feedings.  I also add about a quarter teaspoon of epsom salts every couple weeks to boost magnesium.

Basically just watch your leaf tips, if alot of them start turning brown your mixing too strong and you need to cut down on the strength you are mixing.

When I go to flower I switch over to General Hydroponics Maxi Bloom, its very reasonably priced.  I mix it at a tablespoon per gallon of water.

In general I probably feed about every third watering in both the veg and flower phases.

Glad you enjoyed my journal, I had alot of fun doing it.  I should have done one for my Purple Cindy but got pretty busy.  Maybe I'll do one for Purple Cindy round two.


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## mrkingford (May 13, 2009)

Where can i buy the Mg and the Maxi bloom ? Excatly what type of MG food do i get? Can you provide the excact name and size of the bag and i'll check around my local area.?


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 13, 2009)

Don't use MG anything if you don't have to.  Buy nutes made for MJ.


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## Super Silver Haze (May 13, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Get that plant out of the metal bucket. The nutes can interact with the metal.


 
Thanks THG,  i guess a metal dwc tub is out of the question then.  i never thought about any interaction between metal and nutes.

Mrkingford, trust the info you get here.  no one here will intentionally steer you wrong.  forget about utube education, also here is the quote in my sig. in full.  

"There is hardly anything in the world that someone cannot make a little worse and sell a little cheaper, and the people who consider price alone are that person's lawful prey. It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better."

keep researching before you spend $.  look into a sealed air cooled hood if you get a 400w hps.  also you dont need a switchable system, just hps bulb and ballast.  i got a 400w hps w/sealed air cooled hood for $239 from HTG.

good luck


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 13, 2009)

Super Silver Haze said:
			
		

> Thanks THG,  i guess a metal dwc tub is out of the question then.  i never thought about any interaction between metal and nutes.



Yes.  Besides, plastic totes and buckets are inexpensive and easy to work with.


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## mrkingford (May 13, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Don't use MG anything if you don't have to. Buy nutes made for MJ.


 

OK, so i can't go into a local store and ask for MJ nutes, and i'm sure their not noted on the bags that way either, so could you be more specific as to brands and where to get them.?

P.S. i'll post updated pics of the plants tommorrow.


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## Super Silver Haze (May 13, 2009)

American Hydroponics 
Botanicare 
Dyna-Gro 
Fox Farm 
General Hydroponics 
Technaflora 
The Guano Company 

just surf some hydroponic web sites.


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## mrkingford (May 13, 2009)

American Hydroponics 
Botanicare 
Dyna-Gro 
Fox Farm 
General Hydroponics 
Technaflora 
The Guano Company 

Are their different choices in each brand to chose from?
are these available at local garden shops or home depot or lowes ?
How do i choose what i need in a particular brand ?


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## docfishwrinkle (May 13, 2009)

yes
no, hydro shop or online
google each one & decide what falls into ur bracket

not trying 2b cocky but u need 2 do some research til u think u know it then ask questions. make up ur mind on how ur goin 2 do things then run em past us & well let u know.

take care

DFW


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## Super Silver Haze (May 13, 2009)

here's a link to HTG's nutrient section.  you chose the company and see their line of nutes.
hXXp://www.htgsupply.com/nutrientsubcategories.asp?categoryID=2

i use GH in a dwc, its very thick.  i have to make sure all clumps are broke up.  i hear that GH 3 Part is not thick at all so i will change next time around.

you are using soil so im not sure what to use.  read through some grow journals b/c they usually give the lowdown on their nutes.

like DFW said, read some more and ask away.


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## Calico (May 14, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> After becoming disabled my income went down quite a bit, now of course i'm not about to cut down on my "medicine" if you will.
> So i germinated about 25 seeds from my last bag of commercial weed in wet paper towels in a sandwich bag and got 11 nice ones after 3 days.
> I planted them in 9" pots, some with miracle grow organic potting soil and some with miracle grow "double the growth" potting soil.
> I covered them with saran wrap and placed them in a room with a thermostat heater set at 79 degrees and a fan on at all times. i have a 4 foot fluorescent light 5 inches above them on 18/6. So far 6 came up and one in actually 3 inches tall !!
> ...


 
*1)* 250-350ml depending on the growth stage.Seedlings dont need much water at all, just keep the soil damp not wet. With the Miracle Grow you really need to make sure u dont over water. The MG retains water well and you really should try watering every 3 days ( atleast ) then adjust to your liking. Its better to have your soils top dry out a little bit then constantly have it wet. Alot of people that use MG make the mistake of over watering.

*2)* Reflective surfaces? Mylar is best in my opinion but white walls or plastic is a plus.Light that isnt reflected results in more heat. Depending on the strain and how big you plan to grow the plants, you might need to get bigger pots. Root bound will hinder your crops potential. 79 degress can be workable but depending on how inclosed your grow area is one fan might get you through veg but when you have to go to 12/12 and have to have your area solid dark heat could get uncontrollable. Best temp is 73-76 in my opinion. I'd say get another fan.

*3)* A 4' fluorescent wont be enough to grow 11 plants start to finish but  it should start them fine. Flowering plants need 5000 lumens per square foot of fowering plant. You may be able to get by with a little less but this is the general standard . Good luck and happy growing..


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## mrkingford (May 15, 2009)

Here are some recent photo's ( 10 minutes ).
I repotted another one to the green container since it was the smallest of all the plants and being in the black pot at the end it didnt get much light anyway. I used the soil from the container to top off the rest of the containers (that why the soil looks moist ) and to build up the soil around the plant stem. 
There around 8 days out of the soil.


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## Muddy Paws (May 15, 2009)

I use Miracle Grow on my grows, you have all the stuff you need except lime at Wal-Mart...home depot has the lime.

 Get:

 one bag of Miracle Grow Moisture Control soil,

 one bag of earthworm castings

 One bag of Perlite

 One jar of Grandmas molasses (Mix a little bit into your water)

 One bottle of Superthrive (small, brown plastic bottle)

 Mix the entire bag of MG soil with half the bag of Earthworm castings and add a few cups of perlite in. Mix!

 You'll need an HPS light or CFLs to get enough light...but you CAN grow in Miracle Grow..it's not "bad" soil, you just have to work around the fact that it wasn't really made for MJ.

 Your soil needs perlite in it, my friend..that soil will get compacted and give the roots less space to grow. (it'll be okay to transplant..the babies are small, so you can replant and please be careful of overwatering...you give the plants what they need and nothing more; make the roots work for the drink )

 If you have any questions, I'll be glad to help you, bro..


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## mrkingford (May 15, 2009)

Thanks for your help, i appreatiate it. 
When do i re-plant to bigger pots?
When do i start the nutes? About when there 1 month ?
when do you use the lime and superthrive?


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## Muddy Paws (May 15, 2009)

1.*When do i re-plant to bigger pots?* The pots you have seem fine..

2.*When do i start the nutes? About when there 1 month ? *Miracle grow will feed them for about two months. Use the nutes later in the grow when your plants look like they need it.

3.*when do you use the lime and superthrive? *The lime can be worked into the top of the soil; just make a few scratches in the top and just sprinkle the lime on and work it into the soil.

 Superthrive shouldn't be used until the plants are about 2 weeks old...

 Use only one drop per gallon and *stop* using it at least a month before your plants finish flowering. Superthrive seems to keep them from finishing up.

 Just take your time, relax and let your plants grow...don't soak the whole bucket next time you water..the plants aren't big enough to use all the water and you could get mold.

 are you going to be able to get some better lighting for them? You can veg under the T5s but you'll need an HPS light to get em done right.

_Patience_ is the key here, bud. I went spastic on my first grow and tried to do everything to my babies all at once. Just leave em be and read as much as you can about growing, everything else will work itself out.

 DON"T tell any of your buddies about it...that is the biggest mistake, right there. I'll sit in with ya, but you have to do the homework on it. There aren't many questions that haven't been answered here before.


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## framingman001 (May 16, 2009)

I would have to say that M P nailed it. I too am starting a grow for the first time in 20 years and am on a fixed income. the only good thing is that i allready have a 400w hps for flower. i run 8 regular 4ft   t8 bulbs=4 fixtures same as what you have, for veg.(there cheap)   So if you dont mind i would like to pull up a chair and hang out with your grow.  Peace and good luck


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## mrkingford (May 16, 2009)

framingman001 said:
			
		

> I would have to say that M P nailed it. I too am starting a grow for the first time in 20 years and am on a fixed income. the only good thing is that i allready have a 400w hps for flower. i run 8 regular 4ft t8 bulbs=4 fixtures same as what you have, for veg.(there cheap) So if you dont mind i would like to pull up a chair and hang out with your grow. Peace and good luck


 
Muddy paws; 
i'm using regular flu. bulbs, NOT T5's. (cant afford now).
Thank you VERY much, and too everyone, thanks, i do try to read a couple hours a day but this is not (for me) the easiest thing to learn as everyone has different set ups and ideas.
The plants this morning looked FAT! the leaves really are getting large now that they ARENT streching anymore. The one plant has 3 sets of 2 leaves and 1 set of 4 leaves. The plants in the green container are staying rather small, the leaves are not growing as the others. They also lean toward the light.
THE LIGHT REALLY, REALLY DOES MATTER, what a lesson i learned there.
The green container is only for back up (because i dont have enough lights for all the plants)if the others die or or too many are male. Like i said, this is a test grow too work out the kinks CHEAPLY, prior to buying.
As for telling others, besides this post and my wife, NO ONE knows!
Besides, once i get my set up right, i'll NEVER grow more than 5 at a time, which is a minor slap on the wrist, AT MAXIMUM, in my state!!!!
In my state, you can hold up to 1.25oz. and only recieve a 200.00 CIVAL ticket. The governor just passed a law that takes effect in the fall ( ld250 )that now allows you to carry 2.5oz. with only a CIVAL ticket (equal to jay walking,and NOT a crime).
For growing the MAXIMUM for 5 plants is a MISDERMINOR and punishable up to 6 months in jail and 1000.00 fine.
5-20 plants,a felony, maximum is 1 year and 2000.00 fine.

framingman001;
Join the fun. Please post your set up and results so we can help each other and others. 
I really am trying to raise the money for a 400hps set up, i have a few weeks before flowering so i still have time.


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## mrkingford (May 16, 2009)

Wow, ok, so 15 minutes lost typing the last post and the server was too busy for me and i lost the post, so here goes AGAIN.

I took a ride on my harley today to 2 local garden centers. I read and found a lot of interesting stuff. They had Neptunes Harvest products and Pro Mix and all types of bird and bat quano bags, as well as grow and bloom products. I read the labels and came home and read more posts on nutes and mediums and i have a few questions, here goes.

1)Is pro mix a soil? does it have nutes or is it just a starter medium?

2)Can i use a mix of earthworm castings INSTEAD of a soil, mixed with perlite and vermiculite? what else is needed?

3) i know what perlite is for(to make the soil less dense, easier to grow roots and makes room for more air) but what is vermiculite for?

4) how do you mix these?? what ratio?

I have a couple more, but i'll wait for the answers here as it might answer the next ones,
thanks again all.......................peace


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## dirtyolsouth (May 16, 2009)

Your last baby pic is looking like a mostly indica with it's broad leaves...   that's great since you're growing indoors.  

1.  Yeah...   ProMix is a soil product.  It has some really good stuff in it although I've never used it.  Are you near a store that specializes in indoor gardening/hydroponics?  They have more choices that people here are more likely to use such as Foxfarm brand soils Ocean Forest and Happy Frog as well as a nice soiless product called Light Warrior...  

2.  NO!  you don't want to use straight worm castings...   use it as an addition to your soil mix.  

3.  Vermiculite is used the same as perlite...  to lighten your soil and improve drainage.  I prefer to use chunky perlite which is only found at indoor gardening stores.

4.  I like to use a soil mix of about 25% Ocean Forest, 25% Roots brand soil mix, 15% Light Warrior, an additional 20% of chunky perlite added and 15% worm castings.  F.Y.I...  don't use any water absorbing crystals in your soil mix.  Great mj growing requires the soil to dry out between waterings and this slows that process.

Your regular fluoro lights will work fine for vegging although I'd suggest getting another one to add to the setup.  As long as you keep your lights an inch or two from the leaves they will do well.  A 400w HPS is a great choice for a small personal grow setup.  I'm with The Hemp Goddess on the need for an air cooled reflector.  I can't stress enough how much the temps need to be kept down in the mid to upper 70's for dank bud.  If you get a "cool tube" style of reflector and a good inline fan for pulling the heat off of your light and routing it out of your grow room you'll be much closer to an environment condusive for gooey bud.  And if you do...  what are you going to do about the smell?  You'll need a good carbon filter too if you plan on growing stinky bud...   More stuff to spend money on!

As far as nutes go...   Since you're in MG soil don't add anything for about a month imho as it's already in the soil.  After you have vegged for about 4-6 weeks and the plant is root bound in their current pot you'll transplant to a larger container i.e. 3 gallon, 5 gallon, 7 gallon, etc...  depending on what size plants you are growing.  I'd suggest transplanting them into one of the quality soils I mentioned above.

Scheduling...   the days that the seed bank is mentioning is the amount of days the strain typically takes til harvest.  How much you veg depends on many factors such as strain, your veg lights and how much grow space you have vertically.  Remember, indicas often double in size when you flower them and sativa varieties can grow to more than 3x their height...

Lots to think about...   don't overwhelm yourself.  Take your time and be a good student of this amazing plant.  Take it one day at a time and if you apply yourself you can master this hobby.

Good Luck and Happy Growing!


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## mrkingford (May 16, 2009)

dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> Your last baby pic is looking like a mostly indica with it's broad leaves... that's great since you're growing indoors.
> 
> 1. Yeah... ProMix is a soil product. It has some really good stuff in it although I've never used it. Are you near a store that specializes in indoor gardening/hydroponics? They have more choices that people here are more likely to use such as Foxfarm brand soils Ocean Forest and Happy Frog as well as a nice soiless product called Light Warrior...
> 
> ...


 
Wow !!!! Another great post i understood well, thanks !

If perlite and vermiculite are the same, why do you need both?

Instead of an hps i wanted to buy a 4 tube t5 set up from htg supply, its 129.99 inclubing the 4 bulbs and you can switch from 3000 to 6500 for vegging or flowering, others have used them with great success, so i have read. It will put out less heat, use less electricity, and i'm ONLY growing 5 or less plants at one time. 

Another question;
What ratio do i look for in a vegging and a bloom nute? 0-10-3 or 0-10-0 or.......??
There are soo many choices buy none state for MJ on the label so i dont know which i would need.

As far as being Indica goes, i would not know, it was bag seeds i used.
But the pic does NOT do it justice. The leaves are very wide.
Actually, i don't even know the difference between the strains.
Mostly i smoke commercial weed with seeds because its cheaper (175 oz. ) vs. seedless good weed that costs 300 or more an oz.
So, after learning to grow properly i can grow better weed and will need to smoke less, i hope at least.

I think with proper soil mixing and lights i would really like to try that auto flowering. If i could get 10 seeds for 50.00, get 5 females that give 1oz. each, thats not bad for 60-70 days total.

Which leads me to my last question;
Where is a trusted, honest site i can buy seeds from?
Peace my friends


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## mrkingford (May 16, 2009)

Photo's taken 5 minutes ago.  :hubba:


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## Super Silver Haze (May 17, 2009)

with bag seed its hard to tell the strain.  im new too and i remember by 

Indica has Fat leaves...IF i hadnt smoked that joint then i wouldnt have couchlock.  more body high

Sativa has skinny leaves....more up cerebral high

good luck


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## mrkingford (May 17, 2009)

Is Happy Frog better than Ocean Forest ?

They are both made by Fox Farms.

There's a place near me that carries OF but not HF.

Cheers........................


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## mrkingford (May 17, 2009)

So just now i pulled the 5 plants in the green container and killed them.
I took the soil from the container and topped off the remaining 5 planters left all the way up to just under the 1st set of leaves, i left the soil very loose. I hope none were females, lol.
I did this because AS I STATED, this is only a test grow and i did not expect to get 10 plants out of 11 seeds planted with zero knowledge, lol.

In my state it is only a *misdemeanor to have 5 plants.*

*And i'm sure this yeild is not gonna be great anyway. *
:hubba:


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## Muddy Paws (May 17, 2009)

Check your local nursery...they have good soil mixes and they don't have time release frtilizers either. The soil I'm looking at already has lime in it..I'll search around and find the name brand. 

 It's called "Gardner & Bloome Soil" about $5.50 US  for  a 1.5 cu ft bag, but the money would be well spent; Miracle Grow keeps you on yer toes...lol

hxxp://www.gbsoil.com/site4/products.htm

 They have a locater so you can find stores that carry it and it's all organic


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## mrkingford (May 17, 2009)

I did find a store near me that carries fox farm ocean forest and fox farm liquid nutes, i think i'll spend the extra since its proven and needs nothing at all mixed with it, except the nutes later.

It's 22.00 per bag for a 1.5 liter but its better than messing around.


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## dirtyolsouth (May 18, 2009)

Hello again...

I've never used Happy Frog but some growers really like it.  Ocean Forest is great product but be sure to add some Perlite - chunky if you can find it - and mix it with your O.F. at about a 3:1 or 4:1 ratio to improve the soil's drainage as O.F. tends to compress over time and the perlite will keep the soil draining well and nicely aerated.  You don't need to use both perlite and vermiculite.  Perlite will suffice.  O.F. has quite a bit of organic nutrient power built into it and your plants probably won't need any grow nutrients added until around a month or so of veg if you do it in O.F.  Once caution is because it is a bit on the 'hot' (strong) side, don't grow your seedlings in O.F.  I like to use a mix of 3 parts Light Warrior to 1 part O.F. so they get a bit of nutes but not too much.  I've had babies in O.F. show leaf burn (tips of leaves turn brown) before I knew this.

Foxfarm makes some great stuff.  If you search for threads you'll be able to find some growers who are using their stuff.  You could use their Grow Big during the last couple weeks of veg and Big Bloom with Tiger Bloom added for flowering.  Don't use any time release fert's for indoor growing.  Make sure the top couple of inches of your soil surface dries out between watering as overwatering can do a lot of harm to the root system and invites root rot and bug infestation.  I prefer to give my flower girls nutes every third watering and I water them about every 2-3 days.  If you pay attention to your girls you'll know when they need watering.  You'll notice that when they're properly watered the leaves will look perky and she'll look happy...   When the leaves begin to droop ever so slightly it's time to water.  

BUT...  we're getting ahead of ourselves, aren't we?  DON'T buy any seeds until you really have sprouting and growing bag seed down pat.  I speak from experience and shame...   Nothing's worse than going through the hassle of ordering some awesome strains to the tune of a nice chunk of cash along with the hassle of getting the money orders, doing the international postage, the waiting and waiting and paranoia of waiting for them to arrive and then failing miserably  because your chops aren't up to par yet.  The hardest thing for newbie growers to do with seedlings is leave them alone, killing them with kindness.  They tend to over water and start giving them nute products way too early, long before they need it and the potential girls get cranky...   I'm a big believer in the practice that limiting stress in your seedlings will produce more female plants.  In my first few rounds with beans I had maybe a 40% - 60% success with plants turning out to be female.  For many years I've been getting closer to 70% - 80% girls now that I've got more of a clue about optimal conditions and when they do and more importantly, do not need attention.

Regarding Indica vs Sativa...   They are both awesome strain types.  Indica strains have more of a delightful sedated effect on your melon... many people refer to it as a couchlock kind of high.  You sit on the couch, fire one up and you are instantly couch locked, unable to do a damn thing.  This is when a tasty snack, a cool beverage and a TV along with a remote control comes in very handy.  Sativas have a bit more of an energetic 'body' high with a soaring quality and you might just get busy and finally finish that puzzle with your wife that's been spread out on the ping pong table since your mother in law gave it to your for Christmas.  The Indicas varieties are originally from regions like the mountains of Afghanistan (The Taliban has been useful for something at least) and grow short and stout with dense budding and branching to a height of typically around 4-5 feet outdoors. Indicas have shorter, 7-9 week  flowering cycles than sativa varieties which can flower for 10-14 weeks or more.  Sativas also have sparse budding and branching with more spread out, fluffier bud sites and grow much taller outdoors and pure sativas are much harder to handle in the indoor garden.  

Since your posted broad leafed baby looks mostly Indica, you're in luck if it turns out to be a girl.  That plant will probably mature in around 8 weeks of flowering and will have around double the height when it finishes compared to how tall it is when you begin 12/12.  Sativas easily double and can triple or more in height so you really need to flower them earlier when they're smaller to control them indoors.  And then there's the delightful Indica/Sativa hybrid which has proliferated from our hallowed Dutch brethren and furthered around the world by growers everywhere.  When you breed a male or female of and Indica with the opposite sex of a Sativa you get seeds with the attributes of both parents.  Breeders looking for good new indoor varieties try to find examples - referred to as 'phenotypes' in the scientific circles - of hybrids that exhibit the short, squat growth of an Indica along with the soaring, energetic highs of the Sativa variety.  That's why there are so many strains...  imagine the possibilities!

T5's are great to flower with.  The more the merrier.  You won't have the production of HID's but you'll have a lot fewer problems keeping your temps down.  I still would encourage good ventilation for your plant's health as well as odor issues.  Can you exhaust air out of your closet with ventilation duct?  You need to cycle the air periodically to introduce CO2 to your grow space.  You can use an inline duct fan set on a timer to turn on once an hour for 10-15 minutes to exhaust the air and fresh air will be pulled into the room  through the cracks around the door from the negative pressure from the fan cycle.  You'll want to route the output of the fan through 4" or 6" duct into your attic and out of the roof through a vent.  If you exhaust the air outside where it can be smelled you'll need to consider using a carbon filter to scrub the air of the odor before exhausting it.

Have you thought about a carbon filter?  Your grow will STINK UP your pad if you don't do something.  I don't know what your situation is but if you're trying to keep it on the D.L. you have to be prepared for the stank that will emit from your closet, especially the last several weeks of flowering.  There are many ways to run a filter.  You can hook up a can fan to the filter and continuously scrub the air and cycle it back into the room although if you do it this way the fan might add a slight amount of heat.  You can hang the filter in your closet, attach an inline fan to it and exhaust the air into your attic or out of an existing attic roof vent to the great outdoors.  Or...  You can put the fan and filter in your attic with a piece of duct fed from a hole in your closet ceiling and pull the stinky air out of closet and push it through the filter and the odorless air will dissipate into the attic.

And re:  seeds...   I've only ordered from drchronic.com and it's been a few years but always had excellent service and product from them.  They are great with communication and that's a biggie for me.  Props to Marc Emery for the empire he had but ordering seeds from his company back in the day was a nightmare...   Send off your cash or money order and wait forever with NO communication...   When waiting for an order you could watch gray hairs appear on my head with each passing day in those days...  Doc Chronic replies to email often, is reachable by phone during business hours in the UK and they do a great job of stealth packaging.  You can place the order online with a CC but I'd suggest finding your desired beans and then calling to find out the availability of your choices and the total purchase price and then mailing them an international money order to keep down the paper trail.  I had a buddy several years ago who ordered beans on a Wed night online and paid with CC and he had them by the following Monday...  Zing!  It usually takes closer to 8-12 days for international post.   Do you have any stoner friends in California?  The cat's out of the bag out there...   lots of top notch strains to get seeds and clones in the dispensaries to choose from and no international shipping...  but you gotta know somebody!

There's a very good thread with lots of recent discussion on the reputable and best seed banks right here on MP...   Just use the 'Search' function in the menu bar and enter 'seed bank.'

Lots to think about....

Peace


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## mrkingford (May 18, 2009)

That was excellent information, THANKS

However, today i bought lights, soil, nutes and even seeds, see my thread in the indoor section titled "invested my 1st 307.00", there's even pics.
I'm gonna try my luck, with help from people like you of course, lol, thanks again.............peace


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