# cfl's are pointless



## Uk1 (Jul 9, 2007)

okkkkkk ive tryed growing with cfl's all the time & just thought id say for all those using them just hurry & get something better , ive been trying to grow for too long with them now pretty much all my grows have been a waste of time , just my opinion .... if you wanna go off your own accord & keep using them GL , think im gonna chuck mine outside now & after that just stop growing altogether :spit:


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## Gargmel (Jul 9, 2007)

I beg to differ, CFL's are useless for flowering true, but nothing beats keeping internodes close together during veg stage. Don't give up so easy, just get yourself a 250w HPS for flowering next time


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## Runbyhemp (Jul 9, 2007)

Sorry to hear that Uk1. As Gargmel said, they are useless for flowering. I have 4 x 125 watt 6500k envirolites and they are absolutley brilliant.

Maybe the ones that you are using aren't up to scratch or perhaps some other factor is causing problems for you. Good advice from Gargmel. Keep trying and get yourself a HPS for flowering. Peace


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## bombbudpuffa (Jul 9, 2007)

Are they the right spectrum? I have seen 4200k bulbs and imo this spectrum is crappy. Make sure you've got the 6500k and you should have some beautiful growth. These were both grown using cfls. The 1st one is AfhanixPurple Widow and the 2nd is blue mystic.


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## maineharvest (Jul 9, 2007)

i have one plant budding with cfls and it looks awesome.  I dont know what you are doing wrong cause im getting some good looking buds.  Obviously it would do better under an hps but the cfls are still working.  Sorry it didnt work out for you.


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## booradley (Jul 9, 2007)

In all fairness, he didn't say they were useless... he said they are pointless. And he's got a point.  A new 150 watt CFL and reflector costs pretty close to the same as a 150 watt self-contained HPS. The heat from the CFL is only slightly less than the HPS. But the results are so much better! This is from personal experience.


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## Runbyhemp (Jul 9, 2007)

There is plenty of point to CFL. I can get my envirolites to within an inch of my plants. I wouldn't put any HPS within a foot at least

From my personal experience CFL produces shorter denser plants.

I'm sure others will agree   Check my journal ... Peace


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## booradley (Jul 9, 2007)

actually, with my 150 HPS, I can get the plants pretty much right up to the glass of the fixture. 

well, I have been growing for some time (off and on) using only CFLs. Now I have a t-5 for veg and a HPSand another t-5 for flowering and have been much happier with the results. So far that is. Haven't had a harvest yet, but at this stage in my grow with an HPS v. CFLs, I am seeing much beter results with only a slight increase in heat.


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## bombbudpuffa (Jul 9, 2007)

Well, I just switched from a 70w hps and cfls to str8 cfls and i'm seeing better growth. I noticed the plants got more vertical under the hps than when I use just fluoros. Daylights are the perfect spec for veg growth(6500k) and promote short thick stalks.


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## booradley (Jul 9, 2007)

Well, Bomb, I still use my t-5 for veg. I only use my hps for bloom. Well, I will use it when I get some veg bulbs for it. Right now I am using it to do one large SOG harvest. Once I finish that in a month or so, I am going to have a veg/clone/mother box using my t-5 and a bloom box with my HPS and a supplemental t-5. 8000 lumens for my veg/mother/clone box and 20,000 lumnes for my bloom box. 3 feet square for both.


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## Capone (Jul 9, 2007)

maineharvest said:
			
		

> i have one plant budding with cfls and it looks awesome.  I dont know what you are doing wrong cause im getting some good looking buds.  it would do better under an hps but the cfls are still working.  Sorry it didnt work out for you.



I have a flowering plant using 4 cfl's...ive b=never used a hps light, Obviously it works better but in a compact space with limited room they go to work..about the flowering period will it not grow big buds at all or????:woohoo:


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## booradley (Jul 9, 2007)

Using CFLs I was able to harvest about 1/4 a month on a SOG. Course, I am a bit of a lazy grower and didn't spend a lot of time babying my girls so maybe a more attentive grower can do much better with CFLs than I did. Haven't had a harvest with my HPS yet, but I can see a remarkable difference with the HPS v. CFL in two weeks (like the colas are easily half again as large, some twice as large as under CFLs after the same time). I can only imagine how big a difference 6 weeks will make!

BTW, my grow space is about 3 square feet.


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## maineharvest (Jul 9, 2007)

good job uk1 you really know how stir up contraversy.  cfls vs hps!!!!!!!!  They are both good in their own seperate ways and for different kinds of grows.   THEY ARE NOT POINTLESS.


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## Uk1 (Jul 10, 2007)

lol , its my opinion dont like it?  dont read it...


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## TheStickyIcky (Jul 10, 2007)

You can grow entirely with CFLS efficiently. If you have enough CFL's and are still having problems, it is probably something else. I'm flowering with CFL's quite nicely right now.


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## BSki8950 (Jul 10, 2007)

i grew a nice AK-48 with CFL's .... granted the yield was not huge but the bud was intense and overall it wasnt a bad looking plant..


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## Mutt (Jul 10, 2007)

I am a firm believer in Flos in veg than using an HPS. I noticed my female ratio drops with HPS for veg from seeds.
I also think for people without much space CFL's are a must due to the heat HPS's generate.
Granted HPS is the best for flower, but if it means having 100F grow area than by all means use flos. So there is a point. Less heat for more confined areas.
Another reason besides spectrum for veg. My mother/clone area never needs much room. 2'x2'x2' box with (4) 42 watt pig tails and I get nice bushy moms and maintain a perfect temp. 

Just in my experience, I'm sure others have had other experiences.


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## booradley (Jul 10, 2007)

My set up is a plastic grow cab in a closet with sliding doors. I was so worried about the heat generated by an HPS I was afraid to use one. But I went out and bought my 150 watt compact HPS, figuring I could always return it if it turned out to be too hot. Well, I plugged it in hanging from a hook in my kitchen first to see just how it got. No part of it got so hot that I couldn't touch it. Even after two hours I could touch the glass without it burning so much I had to remove my fingers. Now with a very simple vent system my cab is much cooler with my HPS than with the same wattage of CFLs with just vent holes cut in my box. I'm even venting into a space smaller than my grow cab and it never gets hot. Doesn't even get warm! in fact, when I opened my grow cab this morning after being on all night, I was met with a nice cool breeze!

Even with CFLs if you don't have any ventelation, watt for watt, it will get almost as hot. And if you have even the most basic of vents with a fan (not a passive one like I had before) you can put the same wattage HPS as you have of CFLs. At least in my experience. The self contained ones like the floralux systems run cool enough that I think jsut about anyone could use one with only minimal of venting. In fact, I can grow right up to the glass (but not touching it) without it getting hot enough to burn my ladies.


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## maineharvest (Jul 10, 2007)

booradley said:
			
		

> In fact, I can grow right up to the glass (but not touching it) without it getting hot enough to burn my ladies.




Does that glass panel make a difference in the amount of heat that comes off the bulb and hits the plants?   Cause my light didnt come with glass and if it will help make my closet a little cooler ill buy the sheet of glass.


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## booradley (Jul 11, 2007)

maineharvest said:
			
		

> Does that glass panel make a difference in the amount of heat that comes off the bulb and hits the plants? Cause my light didnt come with glass and if it will help make my closet a little cooler ill buy the sheet of glass.


 
HUGE difference! Without the glass heat is radiating from the bulb in all directions. With the glass it all is forced up and out of my box. You probably need special glass, but I don't know for certain.


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## Mutt (Jul 11, 2007)

Should use tempered. plain glass will get brittle over time.


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## stoner 420 (Jul 11, 2007)

hello everyone i saw this thread and i had to read it so i did and i have seen some interesting conments on this thread so i thought i would put my two cents in too....I am a firm believer in CFLs i finished my first grow ever at the first on the year i had three plants to start and when i put them into flower i had two females out of the three so to get to the point i flowered two plants with about 11000 lumens in 2 sqft of box i got 38 grams dry from one plant and 45 grams dry off the other plant so to say well over two oz with two plants.... i love cfls and i am growing again with them if u pack the lumens on them you will be happy either way... sorry for the long reply hope everyone doesnt mind...........


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## Capone (Jul 11, 2007)

no this is what the sites for...ppl's input..thanks for sharing.. i have my eye on this fourm


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## booradley (Jul 11, 2007)

stoner 420 said:
			
		

> hello everyone i saw this thread and i had to read it so i did and i have seen some interesting conments on this thread so i thought i would put my two cents in too....I am a firm believer in CFLs i finished my first grow ever at the first on the year i had three plants to start and when i put them into flower i had two females out of the three so to get to the point i flowered two plants with about 11000 lumens in 2 sqft of box i got 38 grams dry from one plant and 45 grams dry off the other plant so to say well over two oz with two plants.... i love cfls and i am growing again with them if u pack the lumens on them you will be happy either way... sorry for the long reply hope everyone doesnt mind...........


 
How many watts did it take you to get that many lumens? And what's the heat like? Did you go with many small ones or large ones? Or mixture?


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## Viracocha711 (Jul 11, 2007)

CFL's ROCK DA HOUSE! 

Check this out! My little growroom with nothing but CFL's running right now...1 one each of my three plants...They are 30days old from germ.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14871


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## Viracocha711 (Jul 11, 2007)

booradley said:
			
		

> How many watts did it take you to get that many lumens? And what's the heat like? Did you go with many small ones or large ones? Or mixture?


 
1-BULB a 125w 6400K is plenty lumens, 6500 initial lumens to be exact...Plenty to veg one plant...http://www.plantlightinghydroponics...ase-compact-fluorescent-grow-lamp-p-2005.html

You can see what I have done with one bulb on one plant in 30 days right here...http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14871

Now, I do not plan on flowering with them but I know they would do the job...The yield would not be quite what a 600 watt HPS would do but it would work!


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## Viracocha711 (Jul 11, 2007)

booradley said:
			
		

> HUGE difference! Without the glass heat is radiating from the bulb in all directions. With the glass it all is forced up and out of my box. You probably need special glass, but I don't know for certain.


 
One does not need glass for CFL's because the heat is not anything compared to a HPS bulb of any wattage...It is simple physics, an arc tube verses electrically charged gas, there is no comparison hps give off 10 times the heat watt for watt than a CFL's.

I can wrap my hand around a 125 watt CFL, would you wrap your hand around a 70watt HPS? OUCH!

sorry about the broken post I am having difficulties after tokin on a bowl! LOL!


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## booradley (Jul 11, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> 1-BULB a 125w 6400K is plenty lumens, 6500 initial lumens to be exact...Plenty to veg one plant...http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/125w-6400k-mogul-base-compact-fluorescent-grow-lamp-p-2005.html
> 
> You can see what I have done with one bulb on one plant in 30 days right here...http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14871
> 
> Now, I do not plan on flowering with them but I know they would do the job...The yield would not be quite what a 600 watt HPS would do but it would work!


 
Take a bit more than one of those to hit 11,000 lumnes.  It costs 50 to replace though and if you're going to get a flowering version, that's another $50 plus a reflector and you've just spent more than I did on my 150 HPS!


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## maineharvest (Jul 11, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> One does not need glass for CFL's because the heat is not anything compared to a HPS bulb of any wattage...It is simple physics, an arc tube verses electrically charged gas, there is no comparison hps give off 10 times the heat watt for watt than a CFL's.
> 
> I can wrap my hand around a 125 watt CFL, would you wrap your hand around a 70watt HPS? OUCH!
> 
> sorry about the broken post I am having difficulties after tokin on a bowl! LOL!




I was talking about a hps lamp.


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## booradley (Jul 11, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> One does not need glass for CFL's because the heat is not anything compared to a HPS bulb of any wattage...It is simple physics, an arc tube verses electrically charged gas, there is no comparison hps give off 10 times the heat watt for watt than a CFL's.
> 
> I can wrap my hand around a 125 watt CFL, would you wrap your hand around a 70watt HPS? OUCH!
> 
> sorry about the broken post I am having difficulties after tokin on a bowl! LOL!


 
In any case, you still need vents when running CFL of some sort. I used 'passive' vents before I moved to my HPS. With a $10 duct and a fan from an old computer my grow box is actually cooler than before. Of course I realize that not everyone can easily vent their box. But my vent space is actually smaller than my grow space and partly enclosed. My cab is a sterlite box in a closet with a sliding door. The fact that my closet has a sliding door probably helps since it doesnt' exactly prevent air exchange with the room outside as much as a real door would.


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## Viracocha711 (Jul 11, 2007)

maineharvest said:
			
		

> I was talking about a hps lamp.


 
No NO NO...I am sorry, I think you misunderstood the point I was making to booradley about the heat from a HPS bulb versus CFL...I was saying the heat from a HPS is so very bad compared to a CFL bulb a sheet of glass is needed between the hps lightbulb and their plants to reduce the heat.

...Ya see my point?


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## booradley (Jul 11, 2007)

I figured you were talking in comparison... However the compact HPS units come with glass (usually). And with the enclosed ballest and bulb, the heat is very easy to vent, and the entire unit never gets too hot to touch (not the bulb obviously) but the bulb is completly enclosed.


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## whereismymind69 (Jul 11, 2007)

This is the truth about CFL's:

CFL's are effective, energy-saving, reliable, low heat generating horticultural grow lamps, giving excellent results and lower operating costs for all indoor growers. 

Plants need light in the correct spectrum, which is proven to be between 400 & 700 Nana Wave, and Envirolites produce high output light in exactly this spectrum. There is no wasted light, unlike HID and HPS lamps were much of the light cannot even be seen or used by the pl give 100% PAR (Photosynthetically Active Radiation) high output light and are used successfully for all propagation, vegetative or flowering stages. 

CFL's do not generate excessive heat and can be used directly over plants. This is the secret of growing with CFL's, positioned directly above, just 3 cm or 4 cm, the top of the plants! Unlike HID lamps, this new generation, grow lamps will not burn your plants. 

This is a real advantage compared to growing with HID lamps, as there is no wasted light, which occurs when HID lamps are positioned high above plants. Envirolites give 100 % PAR, correct spectrum, high lumen light directly on top of your plants - where they need it! 

&#8226; Self Ballasting Lamps - simple to install or wire 

&#8226; 100 % PAR in the correct spectrum for growing 

&#8226; Generates much less heat than HID Lamps 

&#8226; Energy saving lamps give lower operating costs 

&#8226; High Lumen Output ~ Long Life Operation 

* 125w and 200w Envirolites are available in 2 models: 

* 6400K for Propagation & vegetative growing 

* 2700K for Flowering stage growing


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## booradley (Jul 11, 2007)

Not arguing that CFLs are not capable of growing with some really good results, but in my personal experience what you're saying isn't 100% accurate. I was constantly burning my girls while under a 200 watt CFL. And I can get within a centimeter of the glass on my  HPS without burning my plants. Of course that means about 2" from bulb. I grew with CFLs for years, but I was never happy with the results. I admit I am a lazy grower and that probably has a lot to do with it. :bongin: ya know how it is... rather be smokin'!


Also, those monster floros are so expensive and when you have to adjust them nearly every day or even more, you  increase the risk of damaging or breaking. And if we asked for a show of hands of those who garden stoned, I'm sure we'd have more than a few!


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## Capone (Jul 12, 2007)

no cfls all the way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## booradley (Jul 12, 2007)

Capone said:
			
		

> no cfls all the way !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


 
Gee and I thought you did use CFLs.:hubba: 

This is sort of like the panda that eats, shoots and leaves. One missing coma and you have a whole different meaning! :doh: 

Sorry. Former English teacher here...


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## Mutt (Jul 12, 2007)

Well, so far this has been a no win aurgument.
Lets see what we can gather from this...

1. PAR is for plants...lumens for humans (wow OG FAQ hit that right on the head.  )

2. Flos are great for those that can't do HID.

3. Some use a HID better. Others have better luck with CFL's

4. Spectrum matters (AKA PAR)

5. no-one  can agree on this subject.

6. this is hitting a redundance level.

7. High output flos are wonderful

8. low watt HID's are wonderful.

9. It all comes down to what works for each person.

Well that sums it up.
I won't close the thread, but think that they are not pointless, but not the best either...it depends on the grower.  enough said IMO


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## Capone (Jul 12, 2007)

booradley said:
			
		

> Gee and I thought you did use CFLs.:hubba:
> 
> This is sort of like the panda that eats, shoots and leaves. One missing coma and you have a whole different meaning! :doh:
> 
> Sorry. Former English teacher here...


..


What are you talking about dude?


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## Uk1 (Jul 12, 2007)

booradley said:
			
		

> This is sort of like the panda that eats, shoots and leaves. One missing coma and you have a whole different meaning! :doh:
> Sorry. Former English teacher here...



i didnt do well with teachers .... hahahha


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## booradley (Jul 13, 2007)

Capone said:
			
		

> ..
> 
> 
> What are you talking about dude?


 
Sorry. Was making fun of the fact that without a coma, or something, your statement goes from "No! Use CFLs all the way!" To "No I don't use CFLs at all." Unless, of coruse, that is what you meant all along. Course, I ain't perfect either. (But notice the correct usage of "ain't?"


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## booradley (Jul 13, 2007)

Uk1 said:
			
		

> i didnt do well with teachers .... hahahha


 
that's funny cuz I didn't either.

Sorry for steering WAY of topic! I should be shot, or hanged, or stoned. Yeah, definately I should be stoned...


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## Capone (Jul 13, 2007)

Sorry im working on on that.


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## booradley (Jul 13, 2007)

No worries.


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## Uk1 (Jul 15, 2007)

lol lets make this thread go off topic so they dunno which section to add it too muhahahahahahaha*!!!!!*


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