# tinfoil lining



## chadwic (Jan 2, 2010)

hey guys i'm a total noob to growing and i've got my little box lined with tinfoil. just wondering what this does to my plant......i am going to paint it with a white paint also so what finish should i get?


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## pcduck (Jan 2, 2010)

nothing ..tinfoil does nothing...flat white paint works a lot better


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## Icex420 (Jan 2, 2010)

Actually Tin foil does something. Its called hot spots and its garbage. Same with mirrors.


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## chadwic (Jan 2, 2010)

yea i put the dull side out hahaha the shiny side scared me. gunna go get some flat white tomorrow. will the fresh paint have an affect on my plant?


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## nouvellechef (Jan 2, 2010)

If you line the floor and ceiling with mirrors also, it will reflect twice the amount of light.  end thread


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## Icex420 (Jan 2, 2010)

chadwic said:
			
		

> yea i put the dull side out hahaha the shiny side scared me. gunna go get some flat white tomorrow. will the fresh paint have an affect on my plant?


 
Yeah youir going to want to use mylar if you cant pull those girls out, paint, then let it air out for atleast 24 hours or they breathe fumes. And they WILL die.

GL


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## leafminer (Jan 2, 2010)

Mylar: 98% reflective.
White paint: 90% reflective
Alumunium foil, shiny side out: 90% reflective

Those are the facts... pure and simple. Physics. Not opinion; verifiable.
BTW there are no such things as 'hot spots' that can burn your plant. It's an old growers tale but not grounded in fact.


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

leafminer said:
			
		

> Mylar: 98% reflective.
> White paint: 90% reflective
> Alumunium foil, shiny side out: 90% reflective
> 
> ...



I agree and wonder if mirrors would work also they are reflecting not magnifying so whats the difference from straight light? Can someone show me real proof that it causes hotspot and less reflective?

Just a thought....


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

*"Bill Reisdorf, MadSci Admin*Since my Bachelor's degree is in physics, I'll take 
a stab at it. My guess is that, there should be no difference at all between 
direct and reflected light on plant growth. Of course, it depends on how good 
the mirror (or other reflecting medium is). Nothing will reflect 100% of light, 
but a well-polished and clean mirror should do pretty well. A poor or dirty one 
will absorb or scatter some of the light and less will reach the plant. But 
since it is visible light that the plants need for growing, anything that 
reflects say 90-95% of the light should be about as good as direct light. 

Of course, there are other wavelengths of light (infrared and ultraviolet/uv) 
that your eyes can't see, and they aren't relected quite as well as visible in 
a standard mirror. But they don't have much influence on plant growth, aside 
from the fact that more infrared causes the temperature to rise, and some 
plants need more warmth than others too."


Madsci Network


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## Icex420 (Jan 3, 2010)

Well thats his guess....


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

Aluminum foil is made to absorb heat and evenly distribute the heat.
In this case heat is light. Aluminum foil  absorbs the light and evenly distributes the heat from the light.

Mirrors are they same they absorb your image/light in order for you to see yourself.

Aluminum foil sucks for grow room walls but works great for cooking 

Leafminer What is your reference that states that Aluminum foil  is 90% reflective?


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## DynaGlideGuy (Jan 3, 2010)

white paint by far is your best bang for the buck, its cheaper and easier to maintain.........well imho
Jambo
"P"


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## Growdude (Jan 3, 2010)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> If you line the floor and ceiling with mirrors also, it will reflect twice the amount of light.  end thread



Mirrors are no good at all, Mirrors absorb light and do not refract light.
Refracted light is best, that's why they recommend Flat white, or if using foil dull side out.


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## Hick (Jan 3, 2010)

ALUMINUM foil is _by far_ the least reflective of any of the common choices. It is not, and never was intended or designed to reflect light, but rather heat. It is for the BBQ.. NOT the grow room.  I'm not sure where leafminer gathered his information, but "I" believe it is incorrect. Flat white paint is superior to alum. foil.."FACTS" not opinion or guesses. And I can find dozens of .._"verifiable"_ scientific sources that state such.  
quotes and links in this thread--> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44850&highlight=reflective+materials
and here--> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=432614&postcount=7
want more?--> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50503&highlight=reflective+materials
another thread-->http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25957&page=2&highlight=mirror
one more http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13851




> Choosing the right surface for the walls of your grow room is very important, as up to 40% of your total yield comes from the edge, and the right wall surface can increase the amount of light those plants receive by up to 30%! Artificial lighting diminishes exponentially with distance, so it is important to &#8216;contain&#8217; as much of this light as possible, and direct it accordingly. Reflective surfaces also help illuminate the lower portions of the garden, providing lower buds with light and heat energy.
> 
> To get the best results with your light and walls, it is important to get the walls as close as possible to your garden to ensure the least amount of light is wasted. As a caveat, the percentages provided are only useful as a general guideline, as they present the range of reflectivity of the particular surfaces. The high percentage presents the best possible circumstances for that material (for example a 99% reflectivity rating for mylar sheeting would be under ideal conditions - no creases, completely flat, no discoloration, etc).
> 
> ...


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## Hick (Jan 3, 2010)

here are the values that I have found and believe most accurate
Foylon 94-95
Reflective Mylar 90-95
Flat White Paint 85-93
Semi-Gloss White 75-80
Flat Yellow 70-80
Aluminum Foil 70-75


			
				leafminer said:
			
		

> Those aren't the values I found.
> Mylar: 98% so multiple reflections are possible without losing much.
> Aluminium foil, shiny side, 80%
> Flat white paint, 80%
> - I agree with Rockster but these arguments go on for ever ...


<--- from a previous thread..:confused2:


			
				leafminer said:
			
		

> Mylar: 98% reflective.
> White paint: 90% reflective
> Alumunium foil, shiny side out: 90% reflective


 <-- from this thread.. :confused2:..


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## BBFan (Jan 3, 2010)

There are differences in reflectivity.



			
				pcduck said:
			
		

> Mirrors are they same they absorb your image/light in order for you to see yourself



Sorry pcduck, no offense but, if it absorbed your image/light, you would see nothing.  A highly polished mirror is about the best you can get.  A standard mirror, however, is not a highly polished mirror.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

BBFan said:
			
		

> There are differences in reflectivity.
> 
> 
> 
> Sorry pcduck, no offense but, if it absorbed your image/light, you would see nothing.  A highly polished mirror is about the best you can get.  A standard mirror, however, is not a highly polished mirror.




no offense taken but you may want to recheck your sources...I think you have it backward. If it did not absorb your image you would see nothing....mirrors suck, .



			
				msu.edu said:
			
		

> Most mirrors in our everyday life have three layers.  The bottom layer is a dark, protective layer.  The middle layer, the most important part, is made of a metal, usually aluminum.  The top layer is glass, because its clear and it protects the smooth aluminum layer.


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## iamtd (Jan 3, 2010)

hxxp://phys.lsu.edu/~jdowling/mit.html

Maybe if you had one of these mirrors?


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

Maybe if I had the money for one of them. Do you? If so give it a whirl


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## BBFan (Jan 3, 2010)

pcduck said:
			
		

> no offense taken but you may want to recheck your sources...I think you have it backward. If it did not absorb your image you would see nothing....mirrors suck, .


 
Hey duck!  
No need to check.  Principles of light 101.  If it "absorbed" your image- you would see nothing back.  It is merely reflecting the light that is bouncing off of you in a specular manner(as opposed to diffuse- think of a body of water- light is reflected in a specular way off a smooth surface, and in a diffuse way off of a rippled surface).

All principles of light reflectivity follow this basic premise.  An object appears black because it does not reflect light.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

BB everything absorbs and reflects  light..Otherwise you would not see it

even black objects


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## BBFan (Jan 3, 2010)

The reason a mirror works is that it doesn't absorb nearly any light at all (only a fractional amount)- those photons hitting it get bounced back.  In a flat mirror- those photons are being reflected back to you in a linear (specular) way.

A true black object can only be seen by reference to the objects around it.  No light escapes it.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

Objects reflect the color you see and absorb the remaining colors.

A true black object can only exist in space as a black hole. I do not grow in space or near a black hole which would be impossible because of the gravitational pull of the black hole.




> A true black object can only be seen by reference to the objects around it. No light escapes it.



Does this mean my black buckets which I think nearly everyone would say are black in color can not be seen or do not exists?


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## PencilHead (Jan 3, 2010)

chadwic said:
			
		

> yea i put the dull side out hahaha the shiny side scared me. gunna go get some flat white tomorrow. *will the fresh paint have an affect on my plant?*


 
Latex won't unless it's still wet and your plants stick to it..  

PS--Sorry about staying on topic.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

No problem PH

We should have been there long ago...sorry gang


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## leafminer (Jan 3, 2010)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Aluminum foil is made to absorb heat and evenly distribute the heat.
> In this case heat is light. Aluminum foil  absorbs the light and evenly distributes the heat from the light.
> 
> Mirrors are they same they absorb your image/light in order for you to see yourself.
> ...


- Well, unfortunately I used to be a physics teacher at High School so I can't resist:

1. Aluminium foil does not absorb light, it reflects it. That is the reason why they use it in the giant solar energy projects out in the deserts.

2. You have exactly the wrong idea of how *mirrors* work. If they _absorb your image/light _they would appear black. A mirror reflects almost all light. 98% efficiency at the silver surface, but another 2-4% is lost due to the transmittivity of the glass, so roughly 95% efficient. There is no reason not to use mirrors, except for: expense, weight, fragility... well that's plenty of reasons I guess but not to do with reflectance.

3. Actually I was incorrect with my 90% figure for foil. It is actually higher than that, when new. 98% - same as Mylar. Unlike Mylar it is opaque to light, very useful property in grow rooms. See:
hXXp://www.azom.com/Details.asp?ArticleID=1435
(This is an aluminium foil manufacturer's own comments - NOT a forum or other "opinion" - I deal in FACTS)
*Reflectivity:**  Reflects approximately  98% of radiant heat and light. 
*

_and from Alufoil:_
hXXp://www.alufoil.org/front_content.php?idart=204
*Reflectivity: *Reflects approximately 98% of radiant  heat and light. There is no difference between the reflectivity of a  bright and a matte foil surface.

So the only reason NOT to use foil is the intelligent reason quoted by one poster, that it is electrically conductive and so increases the risk of shock . . . but only if your lamps and circuitry is ALREADY dangerous (i.e. 'live)

But I suppose my provision of facts and figures and web site references will never convince those who somehow don't believe science but prefer to rely on old grower's tales and nonsense.  :ignore:


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## leafminer (Jan 3, 2010)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Objects reflect the color you see and absorb the remaining colors.
> 
> A true black object can only exist in space as a black hole. I do not grow in space or near a black hole which would be impossible because of the gravitational pull of the black hole.
> 
> Does this mean my black buckets which I think nearly everyone would say are black in color can not be seen or do not exists?



- You can see them because they are not perfectly black, they do return some light. Otherwise you would not 'see' them but instead be aware of them as 'black' spaces in your field of view. As an example of this I photographed a plant against a black bin bag the other day. It looked black to me. But when I cropped it with PS4 I saw immediately that the 'black' background was really a dark grey.


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## Growdude (Jan 3, 2010)

Listen, The reason mirrors don't work is the light is reflected not refracted.
Refracted light spreads out the light across the wall, direct reflection will only pinpoint the light.

Question, have you ever sen any grow guides recommending mirrors? if they are so great why are they not even listed as a choice?


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## nouvellechef (Jan 3, 2010)

This thread is getting interesting. IDK. I just saw a greenhouse seed co grow that has black curtains all the way around and ceiling is black. 13 week cheese and colas the size of some NFL players arms. So you decide.


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

I have a ton of mirrors dont know if they will fit I should try it. To me it has to be better than Panda.Only thing is I have all different strains so there wouldnt be a control group.


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## leafminer (Jan 3, 2010)

Growdude said:
			
		

> Listen, The reason mirrors don't work is the light is reflected not refracted.
> Refracted light spreads out the light across the wall, direct reflection will only pinpoint the light.
> 
> Question, have you ever sen any grow guides recommending mirrors? if they are so great why are they not even listed as a choice?



Because they are too expensive and too fragile and too heavy. As I already said.
Growdude, you obviously did take some physics at school . . . but unfortunately, you've got it wrong. Everything we use in the grow room should be reflective. REFRACTION applies to lenses. The first law of reflection states:
"The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection". A plane mirror cannot 'pinpoint the light'. You'd need a parabolic mirror to do that.


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## leafminer (Jan 3, 2010)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> Can I use Aluminium Foil?
> Aluminum foil is no more than 55% reflective. If used, make sure that the dull side is the one that is used to reflect the light. When it becomes creased its reflectivity is even lower (around 35%.) It is also very dangerous to use because it is electrically conductive, and is a fire hazard when it is in close contact with HID lighting.
> 
> Aluminum foil creates hotspots easily, and attaching this to walls is a pain and usually using aluminum tape or glue is the best way. This should only be used as a last resort, and even then its usefulness is questionable.
> ...



Puffinnugs, all those quotes are complete nonsense. Total and absolute nonsense. It often seems to me that nobody in a MJ forum has either been to school or, if they did, remembers anything from their science lessons. I'm not blaming you, just the dumbkopfs who post such nonsense.


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> Can I use mirrors for reflectivity?
> A mirror dosen't reflect light, just image. A mirror is basically reflective backed glass and the glass will absorb light (and also refract it), since the light travels through the glass 2 times it makes it even worse.
> 
> 
> just some quotes i ran across.


 

How can someone say it doesnt reflect light? have you ever taken a mirror and shined light at someone? Even a watch glass for that matter it sure does reflect light. Why does your bathroom get brighter when you put up a mirror? I not a professional at this but seems people have heard from a friend from a website from there grandma it doesnt work with no real facts behind it. 

FYI I love a good argument no disrespect to anyone just interesting to hear peoples views on things.


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## BBFan (Jan 3, 2010)

Interesting though where people get information from and how it becomes gospel.

Mirrors are, imho, not a good item to use in a grow room.  It is not because they lack reflectivity, but rather because they reflect light in a specular, or linear way.  If light hits a mirror at 45 degrees, it will reflect that light at 45 degrees.  Diffused light (not refracted) is better.  It is a lower reflectivity, but a more efficient one.

Aluminum foil, imho, is also not good for use in a grow room.  Not because it doesn't reflect light very efficiently, but rather because of the issues mentioned earlier.

Just my opinions.  I don't like an argument, but I do enjoy a discussion where people put forth differing opinions or present facts in a courteous manner.


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## Growdude (Jan 3, 2010)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Interesting though where people get information from and how it becomes gospel.
> 
> Mirrors are, imho, not a good item to use in a grow room.  It is not because they lack reflectivity, but rather because they reflect light in a specular, or linear way.  If light hits a mirror at 45 degrees, it will reflect that light at 45 degrees.  Diffused light (not refracted) is better.  It is a lower reflectivity, but a more efficient one.
> 
> ...



This is what im saying, though I am prob. using the wrong term (refraction vs diffused.


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## Icex420 (Jan 3, 2010)

All my statements ive posted are just opinions i guess.. From what ive read from reputable sources like hick etc..

You guys both have quotes from scientists. And they disagree.

You ever took a mirror outside and tilted it at an angle to get it to hit the ground? Its extremely bright and hot.  Hot enough to light a dry leaf on fire in under 20 seconds.I dont know if this can be replicated under a hps light, but i imagine it could to a degree.

Who knows? =/


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## leafminer (Jan 3, 2010)

Icex420, you can try this in the Sahara and it will not set a leaf on fire.
The light reflected by the mirror is slightly (5%) less hot than the light received directly from the sun. Think about this, please. Use logic.
That is because the mirror is a PLANE mirror (flat). If you used a concave mirror you could set a leaf on fire.
The lamps in our grow rooms are nowhere near the intensity of sunlight.
The only concave mirrors we use in grow rooms are the lamp reflectors, and we need them.


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## BBFan (Jan 3, 2010)

leafminer said:
			
		

> Icex420, you can try this in the Sahara and it will not set a leaf on fire.
> The light reflected by the mirror is slightly (5%) less hot than the light received directly from the sun. Think about this, please. Use logic.
> That is because the mirror is a PLANE mirror (flat). If you used a concave mirror you could set a leaf on fire.
> The lamps in our grow rooms are nowhere near the intensity of sunlight.
> The only concave mirrors we use in grow rooms are the lamp reflectors, and we need them.


 
Leafminer-

I agree with you.

Can you be a little nicer about it?


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## 2Dog (Jan 3, 2010)

I have heard of mirrors with light/sun causing fires..makes me nervous.


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## Icex420 (Jan 3, 2010)

leafminer said:
			
		

> Icex420, you can try this in the Sahara and it will not set a leaf on fire.
> The light reflected by the mirror is slightly (5%) less hot than the light received directly from the sun. Think about this, please. Use logic.
> That is because the mirror is a PLANE mirror (flat). If you used a concave mirror you could set a leaf on fire.
> The lamps in our grow rooms are nowhere near the intensity of sunlight.
> The only concave mirrors we use in grow rooms are the lamp reflectors, and we need them.


 
Ah interesting. I stand corrected.

I must of had a special mirror when i tried it. I vaguely remember this.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

Go use your mirrors if you think they work.




> - Well, unfortunately I used to be a physics teacher at High School so I can't resist:
> 
> 1. Aluminium foil does not absorb light, it reflects it. That is the reason why they use it in the giant solar energy projects out in the deserts.




Maybe that is a good thing...But let me think, if it does not absorb the light where is the solar energy coming from? Does reflection cause energy or absorption. A black rock gets hotter than white rock


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## BBFan (Jan 3, 2010)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Go use your mirrors if you think they work.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


 
Hey Duck!

Hope you're having a great evening.

Black objects absorb light (and photons).  It makes sense they would get hot.

White objects reflect light- they don't retain the energy (photons) as much, and therefore stay cooler.

Does not apply to metallic surfaces (mirrors) and whether they "feel" hot or cold.  That is a different reaction entirely.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

all I know is I am standing by what I said earlier everything absorbs and reflects light.

if mirrors worked people would use them for growing no matter what, what growers do you know that uses them? 


What is the difference between a dark metal object(mirror) and a dark rock? a piece of glass in between. Ever touch a metal I beam in the sun it gets hot. Plus leafminer was talking solar energy when that comment was issued.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

wait a second we all agree that light equal energy and energy equals heat right?


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

ok  you got me yes I agree light equals enrgy and energy equals light.


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 3, 2010)

union glazer here metal in the sun is hot because it is a great conductor of heat also foil,  the  foil you cook with dissipates heat which is why when you cook with it food dont burn as fast as in say , cast iron i have installed mirrors in grow aeras, even  flat  not focused the reflective light will not make any hot spots but anyting that bends folds, focus reflected light = hot spot


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 3, 2010)

learned that in my apprenticeship  they  did not teach spelling...


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

Also if black reflects light why do football and base ball players put black under there eyes? Or why is it that car manufactures and boat prefer black under the windshield to reduce glare (light reflection).


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

leafminer said:
			
		

> Because they are too expensive and too fragile and too heavy. As I already said.
> Growdude, you obviously did take some physics at school . . . but unfortunately, you've got it wrong. Everything we use in the grow room should be reflective. REFRACTION applies to lenses. The first law of reflection states:
> "The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection". A plane mirror cannot 'pinpoint the light'. You'd need a parabolic mirror to do that.




If they can stick mirrors over your bed to enhance your love making they can do it for growing _if they worked._


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

pcduck said:
			
		

> If they can stick mirrors over your bed to enhance your love making they can do it for growing _if they worked._


 
LOL love it! Maybe I should take mine down and use it.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

go for it a write a journal and become famous as the first to obtain this lofty goal of growing with mirrors. which is just glass with aluminum foil behind it.


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 3, 2010)

nickle


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 3, 2010)

lol plated with aluminum ???? foil???


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

like your sig say BBB

any shiny metal will work but....


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

Thats awesome Pc so positive in my lofty goal.


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## pcduck (Jan 3, 2010)

never strive for nothing but the best cap

just do not step in that black bucket... ok


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## ozzydiodude (Jan 3, 2010)

Cant we just hit the bongs and get along


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

Always gettin along. Here for a good time not along time.


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 3, 2010)

was some one upset


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## ozzydiodude (Jan 3, 2010)

I dont know just ready to smoke the Bong.


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 3, 2010)

ozzy im using th  2 liter bot  they rock.


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## ozzydiodude (Jan 3, 2010)

You will find that they do not have the room for good root ball. IMO the only way they work right is to put rooted clones straight into flowering I will be updating the 2litre grow as soon as me and camera decide to get along.


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 3, 2010)

and im already stoned pats lost......booo...


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## GeezerBudd (Jan 3, 2010)

I'm stoned past remembering who originally posted this thread.
But if it was me, I'd go to a hardware store, the one where there's an old guy who's got the pencil on his ear.
Tell him your painting a baby's new room and you want something real safe-not alot of fumes and tell him you want flat white.

I'm think I'm going to grab the foil, some short ribs and other stuff and do a conductivity vs. reflectivity test.
lol

here:

:48:

Gb


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## captain1 (Jan 3, 2010)

Sorry this was HIGH jacked.


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 3, 2010)

I use flat white paint...it's cheap, except I like the Kitchen and Bath stuff, it seems like it whipes down better....LOL...and my science teacher sucked, so the only reason I use it is because I read it works in a few books, nuthin I learned in college.


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## leafminer (Jan 3, 2010)

sorry to hear your science teacher sucked.
I'm the different kind. I do sodium explosions and make gunpowder. Not to mention synthesising my own ferts. Probably the guy who replaced me this year is wondering why the lab has gallons of 50% phosphoric acid and ammonium hyroxide. . . 

Duck, you kind of have the right idea. You obviously remember some stuff.
The new solar projects operating in deserts have a whole ton of movable mirrors like a giant parabolic reflector in total. These reflect sunlight and concentrate it all onto a black boiler located at the focus. The black boiler absorbs all the sunlight and boils the water, which runs steam turbines that create electricity. It's quite efficient. Can even produce power at night from a molten salt energy store. 
There's a really cool article at 
hXXp://www.agiweb.org/geotimes/apr08/article.html?id=feature_solar.html


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 4, 2010)

LOL...sounds like I might have learned something in your class!!!  That would have definately gotten my attention when I was in school...lol specially if science was right after 4:20 lunch break!  I got suspended once for stealing the frog guts out of the lab, and putting them on a girls lunch tray...I think that was the last yr I took a science.


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## SmokinMom (Jan 4, 2010)

pcduck said:
			
		

> If they can stick mirrors over your bed to enhance your love making they can do it for growing _if they worked._


 
:spit: Love you pc.


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## DonJones (Jan 4, 2010)

PC,  don't you know that mirrors over the bed often impede love making -  watching some one's butt pouncing up an down often has a tendency to incite laughter and laughter usually causes instant shut down. 


Leaf-miner,

You are wasting your time trying to talk science here on the forums.  They all have their minds made up and will come up with the weirdest arguments to support their positions.  Those of us who understand something besides what we read in some supposed expert grower's book already agree with you and the others won't listen anyway.

They don't understand that aluminum foil has a dull side that absorbs more light, especial the infrared spectrum, than it reflects and the shiny side that reflects far more infrared than it absorbs.  They don't understand that if you want to keep something from absorbing heat, you wrap it shiny side out, but it you want it to absorb or retain heat then you wrap it shiny side in and if they know that they don't have a clue why that is.

They also don't realize that the reason photo reflectors are usually flat white isn't because it reflects better but that is has a tendency to reduce bright an dim spots because it is absorbing more of the light rather than reflecting it.

Great smoking.  I hope the reason you left science teaching was because you retired.


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 4, 2010)

I've never seen a grow book recomend using alliminum foil...not any of them, if this idea came from a book I would like to know what one...I've got about all of them.  It's pretty repetative info, but I love books.  I just picked up Soma's organic book tonight....I guess I like to hear/read everyones oppinion on things, gives me a plethora of crap to swim through.

Unfortunately I wasn't born with indoor horticulture knowledge, I had to learn it.  Isn't that the idea of this site is for people to learn, ask questions, maybe a little friendship?  Or is it a place for people who think they know everything to be-little people who are trying to learn?


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## leafminer (Jan 4, 2010)

I believe that as far as possible, we should use science in our grows for things that are scientifically provable, like for instance more lumens = better yield, and we should reserve for opinion and experience those things that cannot be scientifically proven, such as adding molasses or flushing before harvest. The hydro guys for instance ... I would say that they are being very scientific in their grows, which resemble nothing so much as a laboratory with the whirring pumps. fizzing airstones, exact concentration of nutrients measured in ppms ... good grief I had trouble teaching ppms to my high schoolers. I should have told them it would be essential later on when they wanted to grow MJ.


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## leafminer (Jan 4, 2010)

Oh, btw, I don't teach High School any more. I had enough of being paid like $6 an hour to take all the abuse from students who don't know a photon from an electron. Now I teach English and Math to college students, much preferable, especially since there is no dress code and half of my class usually consists of great-looking 21 year old women wearing micro shorts and plunging tops.


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## surreptitious (Jan 4, 2010)

leafminer said:
			
		

> especially since there is no dress code and half of my class usually consists of great-looking 21 year old women wearing micro shorts and plunging tops.



that's the best part about college chicks.  i keep getting older, but they stay the same age!


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 4, 2010)

best movie  ever,,,,,  i  have  acess to many  mirr but  flat white paint is what most litt says....


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## Hick (Jan 4, 2010)

hmmm.. an "X" _high school_ science teacher (that only a few months ago, said indicas "will not" grow under 12/12 lighting)...and a guy that 6 months ago had never grown an mj plant, and was asking "the" most basic of questions, and if boiling roots, and/or hanging upside down increased potency...:giggle: 

"I" think I will put my faith in the gurus that have studied the plant (actually grown it more than once or twice) and written the respected books and guides..


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 4, 2010)

i like  all  advice  it  up to  you  to  choose the  right answer  but hick you  are right advice of the journeyman..woman....


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## BBFan (Jan 4, 2010)

Hick said:
			
		

> hmmm.. an "X" _high school_ science teacher (that only a few months ago, said indicas "will not" grow under 12/12 lighting)...and a guy that 6 months ago had never grown an mj plant, and was asking "the" most basic of questions, and if boiling roots, and/or hanging upside down increased potency...:giggle:
> 
> "I" think I will put my faith in the gurus that have studied the plant (actually grown it more than once or twice) and written the respected books and guides..


 
Hey Hick-

Happy New Year!

Are you sure you're not confusing two different posters here? Leafminer is the one who said he's an ex-science teacher. I think it's DonJones who's been asking those crazy questions.




			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> Leaf-miner,
> 
> You are wasting your time trying to talk science here on the forums. They all have their minds made up and will come up with the weirdest arguments to support their positions. Those of us who understand something besides what we read in some supposed expert grower's book already agree with you and the others won't listen anyway.


 
Again, on behalf of the forum, I'm offended by this.  This has been a discussion where differing opinions have been put forth.  People have been respectful and presented intelligent responses.  I didn't see one negative post.

Generalties about the members here and speaking in absolutes are what don't belong here.  Jeeesh.


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## Icex420 (Jan 4, 2010)

Hick said:
			
		

> hmmm.. an "X" _high school_ science teacher (that only a few months ago, said indicas "will not" grow under 12/12 lighting)...and a guy that 6 months ago had never grown an mj plant, and was asking "the" most basic of questions, and if boiling roots, and/or hanging upside down increased potency...:giggle:
> 
> "I" think I will put my faith in the gurus that have studied the plant (actually grown it more than once or twice) and written the respected books and guides..


 
Whom are you speaking of?


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## Hick (Jan 4, 2010)

Hick said:
			
		

> hmmm..leafminer,  an "X" _high school_ science teacher and (that only a few months ago, said indicas "will not" grow under 12/12 lighting)...and *DJ,*a guy that 6 months ago had never grown an mj plant, and was asking "the" most basic of questions, and if boiling roots, and/or hanging upside down increased potency...:giggle:
> 
> "I" think I will put my faith in the gurus that have studied the plant (actually grown it more than once or twice) and written the respected books and guides..



EDITED for clarity BB...


			
				BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey Hick-
> 
> Again, on behalf of the forum, I'm offended by this. This has been a discussion where differing opinions have been put forth. People have been respectful and presented intelligent responses. I didn't see one negative post.
> 
> Generalties about the members here and speaking in absolutes are what don't belong here. Jeeesh.


that is exactly what prompted my post BB, the insulting, berating attitude displayed by a novice grower with very busy finger... and it isn't only 'this' thread that his posts have _generalized_ the  membership as stupid or below his intelect. I thought putting his experience and knowledge .."in perspective" was in order.
 .


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## BBFan (Jan 4, 2010)

Thanks Hick-

'nuff said.


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## choad (Jan 4, 2010)

captain1 said:
			
		

> I agree and wonder if mirrors would work also they are reflecting not magnifying so whats the difference from straight light? Can someone show me real proof that it causes hotspot and less reflective?
> 
> Just a thought....


 
mirrors actually suck up the light and dont reflect as one thinks. blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2009/11/what_happens_when_light_hits_a_mirror.html


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## ozzydiodude (Jan 4, 2010)

I use Flat White Ceiling paint and here is why. 20 yrs ago my buddy worked at a paint factory and showed me the formulas for white paints, ceiling paints have the most Titanium(?) in them with flat having the most. The more Titanium(?) in the paint the better it will refract/reflect light.


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## leafminer (Jan 4, 2010)

choad said:
			
		

> mirrors actually suck up the light and dont reflect as one thinks. blogs.chron.com/sciguy/archives/2009/11/what_happens_when_light_hits_a_mirror.html



A photon arrives, hits the surface of the metal, and causes an electron in the metal's outer energy lattice to jump up by one or more quantum levels.
After an indeterminate but short time, the unstable electron drops back to its previous quantum level, and as it does, emits a photon of exactly the same energy level - i.e. frequency - i.e., colour of light - as the one which arrived.
You only gave part of the information.

That is why polished metals all have different 'colours'. Brass for instance reflects white light as brass coloured because of its atomic structure.
Always glad to be of assistance . . .

and, Hick, if you feel that I would be better off elsewhere, just say the word. No problem.


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 4, 2010)

Hick said:
			
		

> EDITED for clarity BB...
> 
> that is exactly what prompted my post BB, the insulting, berating attitude displayed by a novice grower with very busy finger... and it isn't only 'this' thread that his posts have _generalized_ the membership as stupid or below his intelect. I thought putting his experience and knowledge .."in perspective" was in order.
> .


 
I was also offended and have been several times by the belittling that has been shown towards people here in general by him.  Several times I thought about addressing it, and several times I opted to let it die...but my thoughts exactly on some one who may have finished one harvest...if that; to be talking down to anyone in here is absurd.  Maybe that person should look in one of the mirrors hanging in his grow room before he types next time.


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## FA$TCA$H (Jan 4, 2010)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I was also offended and have been several times by the belittling that has been shown towards people here in general.  Several times I thought about addressing it, and several times I opted to let it die...but my thoughts exactly on some one who may have finished one harvest...if that to be talking down to anyone in here is absurd.  Maybe the person should look in one of the mirrors hanging in his grow room before he types next time.



i agree, well put. my thanx to my elders here at MP, for molding and maintaining this place that i enjoy so much.


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## captain1 (Jan 4, 2010)

Im sorry if I upset anyone im here to learn from the people I trust with great knowledge but if I dont question, how do we learn or understand? I have felt belittled and have watched what I say as much as possible because I afraid someone will find it stupid. Then I laugh and say its a forum and its hard to read emotions on here. I guess im saying WE ALL love MP lets not sweat the small stuff. Maybe I should spend more time growing than typing.


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 5, 2010)

Captain I don't think you have offended anyone at all bud, at least not me.  Thats what this place is for...I wish I could be doing more growing but there isn't a whole lot for me to do in there, except let it grow for right now.  Lol I find if I spend too much time in the grow, I end up screwing with something that didn't need screwing with, or figuring I need to spend more money that I don't have, because I get a bright idea...I'm better off staying out of there until it's time to feed, or something.


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## Hick (Jan 5, 2010)

> and, Hick, if you feel that I would be better off elsewhere, just say the word. No problem.


absolutely "not" leafminer.. and THAT was not my intention. You and your grows have been an asset o the community  ..BUT.. "I" don't feel/believe that your experience/qualifications as a high school science teacher 'qualifies' you to rewrite/dispute dozens of books and grow guides.
  I've done a share of research on the subject, and what "I" recall is that there ARE mirrors that are specifically designed for reflecting light for scientific applications, but household mirrors are not them. If memory serves me correctly, the composition of the reflective material on the mirror makes the difference.  I don't recall the specifics, I'm sorry.
But what I do know, is that "every" published grow guide advises to 'stay away' from household mirrors.  "I" prefer to take their recommendation, (and advise others to also) over a novice growers 'hypothetical' ideas.


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## DynaGlideGuy (Jan 5, 2010)

Jambo

You just might want to put down the Science books. My View is Quite Different. 



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> PC, don't you know that mirrors over the bed often impede love making - *watching some one's butt pouncing up an down often has a tendency to incite laughter and laughter usually causes instant shut down. *
> 
> 
> Leaf-miner,
> ...


 
"P"


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN (Jan 5, 2010)

so  flat white paint it best?


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## Growdude (Jan 5, 2010)

leafminer said:
			
		

> "The angle of incidence is equal to the angle of reflection". .



This is exactly why mirrors are no good for growing.

Here is an experiment, In a small room take a flashlight and point it at a mirror at any angle that does not shine the light in your face, the only spot that lights up is where the angle of light hits a object, wall, floor ect.

Now in that same room shine a flashlight against a clean white surface, the entire wall appears to light up, and that makes the entire room brighter.


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## Droopy Dog (Jan 5, 2010)

BOSTON BAKED BEAN said:
			
		

> so  flat white paint it best?


:rofl: :rofl: :bolt: 

LOL apparently so.:holysheep: 

MYSELF, I just came here because my hat needed new lining, and was looking for the best tinfoil.:hubba:  

Think I'll just paint my hat. 

DD


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## legalize_freedom (Jan 5, 2010)

Here is what "one expert" says:  Foylon 94-95%, Mylar 90-95%, Flat White paint 85-93%, semi gloss white 75-80%, flat yellow 70-80%, aluminum foil 70-75%, black less than 10%.....notice mirrors are not even in there.

The reason I use flat white is that it is cheap, and can be cleaned easier.  I used Mylar, but it has to lay flat, with no wrinkles, which is hard to do, and once it gets wet and dirty it is useless, because if you try to wipe it down it just gets smeared, and needs replaced.  A good Kitchen and Bath paint can be wiped down and used over and over


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## DynaGlideGuy (Jan 5, 2010)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Here is what "one expert" says: Foylon 94-95%, Mylar 90-95%, Flat White paint 85-93%, semi gloss white 75-80%, flat yellow 70-80%, aluminum foil 70-75%, black less than 10%.....notice mirrors are not even in there.
> 
> The reason I use flat white is that it is cheap, and can be cleaned easier. I used Mylar, but it has to lay flat, with no wrinkles, which is hard to do, and once it gets wet and dirty it is useless, because if you try to wipe it down it just gets smeared, and needs replaced. A good Kitchen and Bath paint can be wiped down and used over and over


great post lf

So its possible to actually get 2% overall improvement for less.  
I'll say it again 
"the Best Bang for your Buck"


Best Wishes
"P"


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