# Building Ebb and Flow System



## Ranek Icewalker (Jan 29, 2011)

Hey all, im about to start building a new hydro system, changing from 2 DWC systems to 1 Ebb and Flow system with a 2x4 tray.

Im curious if anyone knows something good to use for this system besides the 70 dollar Botanicare tray, hopefully something a  little cheaper cause money is  kinda tight right now, andi  have to build a new grow area as well.

Also would you folks suggest growing with Clay pellets or the Coco medium? 
im not sure which to start with and wanna make it easy on myself.

Any comments of suggestions are appreciated.


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## woodydude (Jan 29, 2011)

I had originally planned to go with ebb & flow and bought a couple of trays used for hand mixing cement by builders. Most DIY superstore type places have them over here for around £17 hxxp://www.homebase.co.uk/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=20001&partNumber=832700&Trail=searchtext%3EMIXING+TRAY  I am sure there is similar in the st8s
A word of warning about ebb & flow is flexibility, once your plants are in there, they are in there! I decided against that method because I like to turn my plants at least every couple of days hxxp://www.growell.co.uk/p/1349/Wilma-Hydro-Organic-Systems.html this is similar to the set up I use, mine being home made. I am not sure if you get this type of system in the st8s though.

I am curious why you are looking to switch as I understood the results from dwc were superior to ebb & flow.


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## Ranek Icewalker (Jan 29, 2011)

Thanks woody, ill check into the Cement tray, great idea!
As for the moving the  plants i dont really move my plants much now so that wouldnt bother me.

As for the Ebb & Flow vs DWC, i have read from most sources that Ebb and  Flow is superior, but  if that isnt the case i wont be switching.


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## Peter Jennings (Jan 29, 2011)

Both systems are good. I don't feel that one outweighs the other in terms of growth. In terms of ease of use I would tend to go with the EBB setup.

I'd also say the EBB is more forgiving.


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## Ranek Icewalker (Jan 29, 2011)

Hmm, all this time i thought DWC was the most blaringly inferior type of hydro setup, i guess  i was really mistaken. now i have to decide what to do.


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## gchristo (Jan 29, 2011)

Ranek Icewalker, 
If you thought DWC was an inferior method, just read one of The Hemp Goddess' grow journals.     Outstanding, eye-popping, healthy plants.  There are many others who grow DWC and will chime in as to its ease and simplicity, but most importantly are the final results. DWC works.
I would switch from my drip irrigation method to DWC, but I need to leave the plants for up to 10 days at a time, and DWC seems to need more frequent water top-ups.  That would be a serious drawback in my case, so its drip for me.


Cheers.


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## trillions of atoms (Jan 30, 2011)

if money is tight and your worried about 70 dollars I dont know what your really shooting for as far as end product. you get what you pay for. You dont want a flat tray because you dont want the roots sitting in any water for an extended amount of time. those trays are designed that way for a reason....= proper drainage. Dont get me wrong you can get by with a diy system but there are some things you cant scrimp on and a good tray will last a long long long time. I have a 6ft tray and wished it was only 70 bux. 

If you try and save money you  can get a cheeper rez by using rubbermaid totes- some are two flimsy but doubling up can fix that. I prefer the toughboxes- i piced up a 54 gallong for 50 bux. the hydro shop was charging 80.

what nutrient line are you running? cuttings or seeds? what are you going to run you timer starting out? what light? proper ventilation?

If you need help setting it up id be glad to help. I am running the GH line micro and bloom lucas formula. 

I would say after getting the tray and hooking up you flood and drain correctly (you either want a bigger drain line or a reducer on your fill line) test run it for a day or two to make sure everything is right and in the zone- this will also help clean the system. 

an important thing with ebb and flo is to have it timed correctly, to much flooding roots can dampen off, to little and plants get stunted or can die.

I start non rooted clones @ 15min flood every hour, then when roots pop back it off to every 1.5hr w the same 15 min flood. Then about a week later back it off to every 2 hrs... until you land at 15min flood every four hrs.

Once the flip you can run the flood one time during the night cycle (in the middle of the cycle) if humidity is low and you leave fans on. sometimes you dont have to flood at all during the night it depends on conditions.

but either way as soon as the light comes on you flood the table.

I run my ppms low (using rain and distilled with a starting ppm of under 5 ppm) at first @ about 800. I bump it up to a thou once rooted and after a couple weeks bump the feed up agian. I use 8ml micro to 16ml bloom throughout the grow cycle. The plant will use what it needs and the rez gets flushed every 7 days. Sometimes i PH down and let the tray flood a couple more days if i am low on rainwater and tied up on getting storebought. I have an RO system but it only makes 10 gal a day and if i slip on collecting then i will run the table just a little longer to catch up and get by with it fine.

RO water is recommended but not necessary... some strains might take calmag a mont into flower or around the 5th and 6th week. the lucas formula is designed to not have to use calmg because it has both in the 8ml-16ml blend. this is per gallon btw.... You can run this mix without diluting and not worry about nute burn when they are young unless you feed for longer than 15 minutes..then nute  burn becomes and issue. I keep the PH around 5.3-5.4 in the rez because using hydroton the rootzone ph will be higher and nails 5.8 everytime if the ph is lower in the rez. you will notice when the solution drains back the ph will be lower than the hydroton rootzone. A good ph and tds meter will help but once you get the mix right you will only use the TDS to double check nute strength. ph will be in the zone. 

after about a week the ph in the rez will be around 6.1 and if I want to keep it running with the same solution i will ph down it back to 5.4 and let it run till flush.

during flush i let the plants rest for a half a day in str8 h20 sometimes a day then hittum with fresh water and nutes. this helps flush the excess salt out of the rootzone and what accumulates in the tray and ton'.

if you only want to start a couple of plants in that big of a tray and dont want to fill the rez all the way you can use a smaller tub, and sit it inside the flood table (drill drain holes and an overflow as the hydroton is porous and will float) to prevent the containers from floating around in the smaller tub. This will reduce the amount of actual gallons you have to nute when first running the system if plants are young (this is a money and time saver) un til they get big enough to flood the entire tray. 


i suggest if they tray isnt completely filled (like an SOG) then use the extra ton' and fill up the tray around the containers. This gives the roots a place to grow and prevents the light from hitting a majority of the nutrient solution.

if you fill the table with ton expect the ph to rise quicker in the rez than using just smaller containers filled w ton'.

rinse the ton very- very very very very ...very very very well. you will thank me in the end. I run the system for a couple days...toss the water, then refill and let run..then toss and clean the rez THEN fill and nute the solution. this will help get rid of any residual particulate in the system. 

*be sure to clean the sub. pumps filter every rez change!!!!*

Im sure there is more pointers but its late and i worked a looong day today...

like i said- if ya need any help Im there for ya....

ToA


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## woodydude (Jan 30, 2011)

Lots of good info there trill, shame the thanks button has gone!
Peace
Woody


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## Ranek Icewalker (Jan 30, 2011)

Gchristo, i had just heard that DWC was the easiest to build and kinda assumed it was the starting point of hydro, low-end size, yield, and speed, based on that and other things, guess i was wrong 


Wow thanks for the great post ToA, thanks for putting so much info into it, that will help me for sure, if i decide to switch.

As for the Tray, i wasnt aware that the tray was so important, i like to try to Do it myself and save where possible i guess the tray isnt the place to try and save in this System.


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## bigdrov1x (Jan 30, 2011)

I have some input into this subject being that I have grown using both methods.  I am of the belief that ebb and flow for the novice grower is a much easier method to pull off successfully.  I am growing in a soilless medium now, but have an ebb and flow setup to compare the systems and yeild.  I am only one month into the experiment, and the ebb and flow is destroying the soilless buckets. The stalks and fan leaves are almost twice the size of the soilless medium.  I have used dwc with success as well.  The reason that I do not use dwc is due to the fact that in the summer, I have heat issues.  When temps rise, dissolved oxygen in the nutrients is lower.  With ebb and flow, you do not need to worry about oxygen in your solutiuon.  When the solution goes back into the rez, it sucks oxygen from the air into your roots.  Now using an airstone or two in your rez cannot hurt, but it has been my experience that it is not needed.  That leaves you with a rez, pump, timer, and table with fittings that you need to worry about.  I find that a lot easier than having a bunch of air hoses and air stones to worry about.  Just my opinion.  I also use the Lucas Formula throughout my grow, which in my opinion is a lot easier.  Google up "Lucas Formula", if anything it is interesting reading.  You can use GH 3 part, Flora nova bloom, or powdered maxi bloom.  Trust me this method has produced very nice buds for me.  Just remember that if anything the key is to have enough oxygen getting to your roots.  Also for ebb and flow, using clay pebbles and or hygromite rocks has worked best for me as a medium.


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## budtender (Jan 31, 2011)

You can buy some large plastic concrete mixing trays at Lowes or HD for about $12.00. Worked for me.


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