# How I did it!~~Cannabis History Breeding JC bx



## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

Its amazing how screwed up a Stoners files can get when he has 3 separate computers.
I was moving stuff around the other day and found like 3 gigs of Breeding pictures from making the first JC bx.

I took these with a Nikon 4300 thats only a 3 MP cam but it still had a decent macro set up. Were going to get up close and personal with JC, JCB and collecting and pollinating a F1. I wont do any large pics as its going to be long enough as it is but I think it will be cool to watch her grow up from day to day. I was so happy to have her back I took pics almost daily.

I cant find the damn sad *** pic of the clone that I brought back from Walking Dudes house but these are actual shots from the JC at 2 weeks from that day. I didnt even know yet if I really had my baby back as the keeper was pretty much a Chong style grower, and seemed to loose a lot of strains At the same time he is a good dude and man of his word so we have some JCB male pictures from seed to show growing up at the same time. In these days I really have to come clean and say I really didnt know a lot about selection I just knew JC was bad as and the male came from JCB seeds that produced Batgirl and FrostyB. As it turns out in this case I choose the dominant male the tallest largest and first to bud. My misguided selection criteria were Vigor and size.


I drove like 2800 miles to get this clone


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

So I was fresh out a the joint crashing in Squids basement working a full time job but I have never been able to quench my thirst for growing so I rapidly took over squids grow and it expanded from 3 plants to 7 and a full load of plants. Packed in this small 5x5 area is JC, Killer Queen and Hash Plant. We only ran a 1k light here and a small area of Flos to seed and clone under.

About this time I got my first smell of Lemons and knew I had my girl back nothing smells like JC except her kids.

So go ahead and make fun of my washing machine back drop this was before I took pics for a living and had MzJill to teach me better. I will show off some other strains in a bit but for now lets just watch JC grow up. She is vigorous but with her its some weird mutation cause this girl dont have a hemp gene in her make up.

The darker plant is the male.


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

She started collecting resin about day 20 and Squid came into the kick it room one day and said holy **** that thing smells like some sort of Floor cleaner I was like Duh!
The first time I smelled it I thought Mr Clean but that reminds me of gypsy so lets say Janitor in the Drum or better yet I have a friend who says it smells like that pink soup the used to put on floors to sweep with. To me now its more hashy and hazy but its still extreme lemons and even leaves a lemon smell in a bong.


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

These are shots of Hash Plant just so you dont get bored next. I love the way this plant never stretches so I just clone her 2 weeks earlier than the other strains Im running and shes still shorter than the rest . This strain became a main head stash for the house as it was a huge yielder but at the time of these pics I wasnt a card holder and this is one plant you can smell.


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

Lets take a look at this male as he matures, what burns me up is I had a male that budded a full week later and was shorter and slower and smelled great but I was once told we screw up so we can learn not to. Its not like JCbx sucked I posted the T pheno the other night and it dripped with resin a very nice sativa pheno but loads of variation and less resin than I wanted even though the bud from JC bx looked iced. I guess it boiled down to expectation.

So here are picture from my pollen trap. Once male tops were completely ripe I chopped the tops off placed in a glass with water and positioned them so the dangled over the wax paper I had located in bottom. You can see how over night the ripest stamen literally dropped a bomb of yellow dust right in place. Its important to have no wind we accomplished this using duct tape and two plastic containers stacked on top of each other to form a box. Carefully moving the glass you can then fold the wax paper forming a crease the pollen will flow into and you can pour into a small baggie.


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

So you can see the piles of what I thought was atomic cannabis dust but as you can tell by my continued jabs at the cross I just had better in me and I knew it. Its still cool as hell to find and show these pollen shots to you even though this is a sealed unit when Im not taking pics it was moved far out of the budding area while this was happening.
Make sure not to spill any water from glass into pollen!

[email protected]#k I need a Break

To Be Continued


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

*So this was the first time I captured pollen in the air suspended above a cola*. I have done so many times now and MzJill has perfected it but this is one of my all time shots. No tripod all crammed in a room I think this was the birth of my love for photography.
Moment of inception is pretty freaking cool.
We talk about plant porn when we show buds but this is more like sex education.:holysheep: 

Within days of this you can see the pistils start to wither ( same thing happens with bubblehash just ask him) I allow the pollen to set but after like 3 days I wash the plants off my misting them over and over with a spray bottle. I now love to let a nice rain shower do it for me just not to rough!

I cannot upload the falling pollen Pics because I used em in another post.
I asked this be fixed but I guess the wrong Toggle was flipped
_MarPassion this is an example of what I was talking about.
This is a great story but I dont have the original Picture to re-edit so I can't fix it._

Sorry guys


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

I dont do this anymore but here is Taco male staggered 2 weeks behind the JCB I ran both these strains at the same time not knowing there is a small cross over when you have more than one male active. I dont think anyone would have bitched about a JC x Ortega X C99 anyway but we have a reputation now and these pictures were taken when I was not only a for real closet breeder but I dint really have anything to my name but my knowledge, these clones and a safe of seeds locked away in a different state.


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

The name of these pictures are Wet.jpg and you can see why even with this older style camera. Its still a Nikon hey! Were approaching day 25 or so in these pictures this is the JC I did not pollinate to have a comparison and a head stash. Now if your following a long stay with me this story gets really interesting in the end cause I go back to f$#king jail and these seeds almost never made it out alive! You will even get to hear the story of me seeing [email protected] off weed.


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

A few more JC unseeded at like 27 days. Smells like a glass of tart lemonade today~


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## 2Dog (Feb 27, 2010)

awesome pics soooo nice...sub does your dank book showcase many indicas? I know you tend to favor sativas..which of your strains would you rec to a med grower?


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

Lets jump ahead to day 39 at we can actually see seeds the energy of the plant when its seeded changes from making resin to making seeds so IMO the resin and hash has a different taste and smell and a more narcotic high. Its actually kinda harsh to be honest and the surprising part is when you fully seed a plant once you shuck all the seeds there really isnt a lot left. When youre a seed farmer thats what you get if you do it correctly Seeds!

Packon some weight will ya girl


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

Day 45 and now even you guys can tell its JC over the net. Totally glassed over now with THC latent Trichomes. JC is not to bad on the smell because it doesnt really smell like weed but more like someone spilled a bong and then someone else cleaned it up with lemon cleaner. Were also gaining some nice size here as you can see and that the sneaky part of this super potent momma she well pay out!

BTW plain soil and Dyna grow Squids a chemist so I used what he had


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

You can see how much larger the un seeded plant is with energy not diverted a full size topped JC under a 1k can easily do 5 zipps in soil and in water she gets huge but she is very hard to control and doesnt need a lot of vegetive time


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

Lets check in on the Hash Plant coming along great at about 45 she is just starting to pack on some weight. You can totally see Connie in these pictures and almost every single cross we make teaches us something thats not really in the books and I cant prove.
The elite crosses our community have grown to love so much are extremely dominant and lend most of the characteristics of a new cross. This is exceptionally helpful with out strategy of back crossing to recreate the original f1 in seed form. The fun part have been the 75% crosses are just kick *** and maybe even better than mom in some cases.
We made some amazing crosses using Hashplant but there all gone now


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

Otay!
Day 55 on the seeded JC time for the story I hinted to.
So I was living near Chicago and working a job as a sales guy and basically staying the **** out of the south where I was wanted for growing weed, imagine that! So when Canada tossed me out they had there chance to come get me and did not my lawyer(scumbag) advised me to just stay up north and Id be safe. Now this next part confirms what I tell you guys in chat all the time. I am not that smart! I relaxed working and making some serious sales and a closing rate of like 80% I was on the cell phone in my truck and buzzed through a 20 mph zone at like 30, BANG Im pulled over BOOM Warrants shows up on cops screen CRASH I end up sitting 90 days and they come for me on day 89. 

Two weeks on a transport bus with mother rapers and father rapers and crapping in a steel box with shackles on only to be let go on ** fines and drug rehab program. All my crap was left as I left for work that day buds unlabeled hanging here and there cause I knew what it all was hell you can look at all three and tell easy if youre the one growing in.

So this is where MzJill comes in. We had met a few years earlier on OG and CW and when I went to jail in Canada we lost track. A few weeks before all this crap we had reconnected and I had tickets to actually meet her. The day before I flew out I got pulled over so she found out from friends that I was again locked up cause Im a stoner well ok abit more than that but its all weed related.

While I was inside Jill supported me wrote me pounds of letters and flew east and grabbed my stuff and made sure everything was safe J

She also had saved some JC and KQ I sent out to her and I took 3 hits after 9 months of being clean and I got so high I literally got scared and was phase shifting.

I was actually so high I couldnt describe how high I was.

More Unseeded JC


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

falling Pollen


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## subcool (Feb 27, 2010)

2Dog said:
			
		

> awesome pics soooo nice...sub does your dank book showcase many indicas? I know you tend to favor sativas..which of your strains would you rec to a med grower?




All Of them!

I do not select for yield but taste and effect so I have tried to create a line that provides relief for just about everything
For Depression Jilybean, For Nerve Pain any of the JC Line, For Inspiration Vortex or Space Bomb, For Sleep etc Querkle and Deep Purple, Body Pain is Dairy Queen and so on. I tried to cover what each one helps on our new menu 

Thanks for asking

Sub


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## 2Dog (Feb 28, 2010)

that falling pollen shot is awesome..I have never seen it in that stage sinceI dont breed. thanks for responding to my question.


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## umbra (Feb 28, 2010)

Subcool could you explain to me how you go about stress testing males/females to make sure that they are hermi free and true breeding before you use them for breeding?


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## subcool (Feb 28, 2010)

I will be happy to but this is not how the industry works. As I have said many times the dominant state of Cannabis is hermephoditism and huge portion of Breeding moms used by all breeders will produce stress herms.

To me its much more important how the siblings perform than how the mother plant acts. Many older female mothers are just itching to produce and its natures way of doing things IMO.
Some of the oldest and most well known crosses use a female plant that could feed a troop of monkeys with the nanas they will produce naturally.

To stress a plant you basically do all the things youve been taught not to. Random Lighting cycles, Nutrient stress, Heat stress, Drought Stress and a host of other torture methods.

Treat the plants like you hate em basically

Sub


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## umbra (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok I think I understand. But if they hermi, then you use them anyway? Or do you not bother with stressing them? Is there some other factors to knowing about breeding than to breed true breeding plants? I mean, if the plants are always in a state of potential hermi's, then how is it possible to know which plants to breed with?


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## subcool (Feb 28, 2010)

Yes that is correct because there are so many factors.
The way you find out is by testing the sibling hybrids.

JTR is a perfect example as the JC f1 clone is some 15 years old and will easily make monkey food with even the slightest stress.
Of all the threads I review of our strains JTR is held above others by growers and not only never give her up but as a english cat did replace rooms of existing cuts with JTR clones from seed.
I did not fully understand it all back then but I knew JC and Space Queen were amazing plants so I crossed them and the rest is history. JTR has a very low occurrence of herms and I am not sure I have ever had to replace a pack over that complaint in 6 years of the strains history.

On the other hand a few years back we worked with a Domina female that was a solid female and we ended up tossing some 5000 seeds in a McD's drive through garden in Harborne.

The answer for us has been test, test, test and see how a line performs.

As far as how to know what plants to try I call it an Eye for Dank.

Sub


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## Trafic (Feb 28, 2010)

Am I the only one who get's nervous seeing a fully mature male?

Awesome pics sub, keep it up.

Also real cool reading about you stressing your plants.  I'm trying LST for the first time and it's working great.


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## umbra (Feb 28, 2010)

Ok. When you say" The way you find out is by testing the sibling hybrids." Do you mean just growing them out...or stressing them under all conditions, in order to find the strongest genetic choices? Do you use SPC ( stastistical process control) and take a percentage of random seeds and grow them out to completion. If you do, how many do you grow out? I'm sorry if I am asking too many questions. I just thought since you are here and I had a chance to pick your brain for awhile, that I would do just that, ha, ha...lol.


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## subcool (Feb 28, 2010)

We generally test a strain for about a year and yes I mean grow out the sibling crosses. Because of the following I have world wide I am lucky in the fact I can have the entire world test for me. If it wasn't against the rules Id have already done a MP TGA testers thread. So we use a pool of about 20 medical growers as well as donating thousands of seeds to local medical clubs. This allows me to collect much more information than I could by myself. It also allows us to see the hybrids run by all levels of skill and numerous types of environments and mediums.

This was we see the plants perform under both ideal conditions and some of the worst possible.

Sub


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## umbra (Feb 28, 2010)

thanks


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## Hick (Feb 28, 2010)

WoW!!... 





> As I have said many times the dominant state of Cannabis is hermephoditism and huge portion of Breeding moms used by all breeders will produce stress herms.


  the "dominate state of _"hemp"_ is hermaphrodism, but _"drug quality" cannabis"
 should not.. IMO, 



			huge portion of Breeding moms used by all breeders will produce stress herms.
		
Click to expand...

 ..
 "WHAT" breeders, "breeding Mothers" would you be referring to ? (Please don't tell me all of the 'femminised" seeds mothers) 
 I've been out of the game, 'not' keeping up with the times, I guess. 
I'm not a "breeder".. I'm not a geneticist... .. but I've never heard of using hermies in further improving "drug quality" pot linage. 
In my "past" research, and experiences  It was preached, "Hermies procreate hermies" 
and hermaphrodism was not a 'desirable' trait. 
  Boy how things change ehh.. _


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## subcool (Feb 28, 2010)

What is written in the books and what takes place in real life are not always the same. All of the Chem crosses, California Orange, Almost every Blueberry I have seen taken to maturity, ECSD, Trainwreck, Romulan I am kinda blazed right now on some Killer Queen bubble but I can name those off the top of my head that all make monkey food.

And yes many breeders that are a huge success simply make fem seeds from late term mothers that toss male stamens. Don't forget I lived in Amsterdam and worked for Gypsy and my eyes were open the entire time 

Here is something for you to think about. I am a very experienced grower having been full time for over 8 years and before that under ground cash cropping for another 18 and I can not track more than about 50 seeds at one time. How many do you think you could work with and actually do a really great job of going through every female finding the best one?
I do not think that number would be 1000 if you were honest so who is doing this cause I know everyone that makes seeds pretty much and what I saw was mostly posers buying one white widow clone and crossing it with every female in there grow room.

I have a few breeding threads to put up this week and I will detail and show what a working selection project looks like.

If you didn't catch this in the text this JC BX cross did NOT meet my requirements as a keeper strain and was discontinued.


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## ozzydiodude (Feb 28, 2010)

So what you are basicly saying *Subcool* is that todays "breeders" are just pollen chucker.


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## subcool (Feb 28, 2010)

Absolutely not there are many people doing it correctly just not the majority of people. I was pointing out that the crosses I mentioned are used in many of todays strains.
But just because a pack of seeds cost 300$ it dosn't mean it was made by someone who knows what they were doing or even someone who cares.
I am one who is not offended by the title as I have chucked quite a bit of pollen in my life.
In fact I fill a 6x8 room with clouds of the stuff every 60 days..


I have also been lucky enough to create some pretty amazing gear by applying what I learned.

Sub


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## subcool (Feb 28, 2010)

So after I dealt with my troubles with the law I resettled out west and got my medical permit and it was then I was able to grow out the resulting cross we called JC BX. I now know as we discussed that selecting a male is much harder than just popping some seeds you made and using the one that looks happy. None the less the results didn't suck I just realized I needed to get the Blueberry out of the mix.

Regardless the cross produced some towering colas of lemon ganja.


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## loolagigi (Feb 28, 2010)

wow, nice plants sub. i have a feeling i will steer away from my hydro setup one day and give your super soil a shot.


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## subcool (Feb 28, 2010)

So we enjoyed the harvest and then went back to the drawing board.
I will tell that story in another thread.

Thanks for looking

Sub


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## umbra (Mar 1, 2010)

Hey Sub I went over to breedbay and read all of your threads. Actually I've been there for a long time under a different name. And it took me months. I've grown out some of your beans. But since we are on the topic in this thread, I thought I would ask some more questions...if you don't mind.

TGA is a co op of sorts. Its an affiliation of growers. You/they develop a strain, a genetic recipe of sorts. Then someone else, in another country where it is not illegal, makes the seeds, uses the genetic recipe ( with seeds or clones or whatever is necessary to create the seeds) and then they are sold in a country where the sale of cannabis seeds is legal. Is this correct?
How do you maintain quality control over the end result?


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## subcool (Mar 1, 2010)

Thats close enough, but thats deff to nosey a question IMO


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## umbra (Mar 1, 2010)

Did not mean to over step any boundaries. But I think there is a misconception here that you and ONLY you are the 1 who pollinates and creates seeds. That when folks buy Subcool seeds, the seeds themselves were not actually made by subcool, but rather someone else, somewhere else. :holysheep::hubba:


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## godspeedsuckah (Mar 1, 2010)

Interesting.


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## subcool (Mar 1, 2010)

With as many pollination pictures as I have posted youd think that misconception would be straightened out


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## ozzydiodude (Mar 1, 2010)

It's to noisy a question to ask if you made your own crosses?  Just because you post a pic or 2 of pollenation does not mean you produce all the seeds sold under your name. So basicly TGA/Subcool seeds are a product that the seeds could have been breed by anyone that has follow your all reciepe.


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## pcduck (Mar 1, 2010)

The president of Ford does not put every nut and bolt together in a car or truck he dictates these responsibility to others,but he sure likes to sell them, this is pretty much how it works with most businesses. I am confused as why this should be any different in this business of producing seeds?


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## umbra (Mar 1, 2010)

I dont think it is any different. That was my point. I am talking about a business model that is proven and employed by more than one breeder. It was not anything more than that. I understand breeding as well as the biz of breeding, they are not the same things.


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