# 400 Watts Of Cfl Vs 400 Watts Mh



## Crazy Horse (Jun 12, 2008)

What Do U Fellow Growers Recomend? I Have 1 200 Watt Cfl For Veg Right Now And Love It. Tight Nodes, Can Keep It Within Inches Of My Seedlings And No Heat Issues. So In This Case Would Have To Purchase Another 200 Watt Light To Get My 400 Watts (duh).

Or Should I Purchase A New 400 Watt Mh Setup With Of Course More Fans To Deal With Heat Issues? Is 400 Watts Of Mh Superior Over 400 Watts Of Cfl's? Taken Into Account All The Pros And Cons Of Each.

I'm Leaning Towards The Cfl's Because Lower Cost To Get Setup And No Heat Issues (which I Battle With On A Daily Basis In My Flowering Room And Can't Stand It). Thanks Ahead Of Time


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## bombbudpuffa (Jun 12, 2008)

> Should I Purchase A New 400 Watt Mh Setup With Of Course More Fans To Deal With Heat Issues? Is 400 Watts Of Mh Superior Over 400 Watts Of Cfl's?


Yes and yes. I was a dedicated cfl vegger until I used my MH for the first time. Make sure and get 5500k-6500k bulbs and not 4000k or 4500k bulbs and you should see a big difference.


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## LaserKittensGoPewPew (Jun 12, 2008)

If you go with the 400w MH you might want to consider going with a 400w HPS ballast and using a ceramic metal halide bulb (CMH). They put out a much better balanced light spectrum and are excellent for vegging. They can be used to flower with really nice results in bud quality, but they just don't seem to put on the same weight as with an HPS. This isn't to say the buds will be of lesser quality, just a bit less yield. The smoke if anything from other grower's reviews has been higher quality. But the CMH bulbs seem to encourage LOTS of branching and new shoots so if you're topping/lst/scrogging this might be quite valuable to you. From all the grows I've seen with CMH bulbs they definitely veg plants exceptionally well. 

I have a computer case I'm building with a mixed spectrum of 150w HPS + 100w CMH. The idea is to get the benefits of the much more balanced spectrum and also keep the far red light of the HPS to put on that extra weight. The CMH bulbs put out UV-B which makes for more potent ganj. So hopefully with this set up I can get the yield and the higher quality smoke. Just my thoughts you may or may not find of value.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 13, 2008)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> Yes and yes. I was a dedicated cfl vegger until I used my MH for the first time. Make sure and get 5500k-6500k bulbs and not 4000k or 4500k bulbs and you should see a big difference.



LOL--I was a dedicated MH vegger until I used a T5 for the first time.  I have a 400W MH and a 250W MH that I no longer use.  The lower heat is really as big deal and I have noticed no real difference in the growth.  Of course, CFLs are not T5s, but you might want to consider one since you are buying something...


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## bombbudpuffa (Jun 13, 2008)

> The lower heat is really as big deal and I have noticed no real difference in the growth.


I use a 175w in a cool tube and I notice a _BIG_ difference.


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## Crazy Horse (Jun 13, 2008)

Man I hate u guys! Lol. I was hoping for a little more positive input on the cfl's.  But I guess u guys are right about the mh though, especially when I plan to have a longer veg time (like 2- 3 months, I want trees). Is it safe to have a MH light on 24 hrs/day, or do they need a little down time to cool off. I usually run 18/6, but want to go to 24. Do the nodes still keep pretty tight with MH?


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## bombbudpuffa (Jun 13, 2008)

I run mine on 24/0. Tighter nodes and thicker stems are the main thing i've noticed using mh. I can put my seedlings about 6 inches from it with no probs. I use my cfls for side lighting if needed but for the most part just the mh.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 13, 2008)

I run mine 24/7 also.  A MH will have substantially better penetrating power than the CFLs or the T5.  My vegging space is 4' tall and I do individual DWC in 5 gal buckets.  When they get to the light, they go into flowering.  

Here is a girl (has some nice preflowers) that was started from seed on 5-1.  She's been under the T5 her whole life.  She is going to be moved into flowering soon because of her size.  You can see some places where she grew into the light and burned some leaves, but she is nice and healthy.  She's about 20" tall now.


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## ChatNoir (Jun 13, 2008)

430W 1x430W HPS Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 322$
990W 33x30W CFL Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 180$

Choice is yours.


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## johnnybuds (Jun 13, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> 430W 1x430W HPS Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 322$
> 990W 33x30W CFL Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 180$
> 
> Choice is yours.




The lumen is the same,what about the penitration threw the canopy? is that the same.i have the t5's that are mentioned but i have never used it to veg .i have only used it with the bloom tubes for flowring.


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## johnnybuds (Jun 13, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> 430W 1x430W HPS Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 322$
> 990W 33x30W CFL Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 180$
> 
> Choice is yours.




I forgot:smoke1: how many tubes are you talking about?


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## ChatNoir (Jun 13, 2008)

johnnybuds said:
			
		

> The lumen is the same,what about the penitration threw the canopy? is that the same.i have the t5's that are mentioned but i have never used it to veg .i have only used it with the bloom tubes for flowring.



If you have a large grow space and some cash, I would not recommend CFLs, their combined heat generation may exceed HPS lamps. If you have a moderate grow space up to 14 feet², you will not have the need of penetration as you can place CFLs as close as to the plant you desire as well as anywhere around it, even under it.

At small numbers for relatively small grow spaces, CFLs are ideal.


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## johnnybuds (Jun 13, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> If you have a large grow space and some cash, I would not recommend CFLs, their combined heat generation may exceed HPS lamps. If you have a moderate grow space up to 14 feet², you will not have the need of penetration as you can place CFLs as close as to the plant you desire as well as anywhere around it, even under it.
> 
> At small numbers for relatively small grow spaces, CFLs are ideal.






Thanks:48: 2.5 deep by 5 wide by 7 high.


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## massproducer (Jun 13, 2008)

CFL's have almost no light penetration, and yes you need light penetration unless you are growing 1 foot plants.

Penetration means how far can the light shine through the canopy to light the lower branches and bud sites.

by the way you can get a 400 watt HPS for about $100 online, I would never pay $322 for a 400, I wouldn't pay that for a 1000.

Lastly CFL's are not even as close to as efficient as a HID, so 400 watts of CFL are going to actually run quite a bit hotter then a 400 watt HID.


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## massproducer (Jun 13, 2008)

Cornellius said:
			
		

> 430W 1x430W HPS Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 322$
> 990W 33x30W CFL Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, 180$
> 
> Choice is yours.


 
Are you saying this in favor of CFL's???

this says you need 930 watts, 33 actual bulbs in order to match 1 - 430w hps.  Plus with the CFL's you get a lot less penetration.

Those prices seem kind of whack, $322 for a 430 watt HPS?

Also the actual wattage run is significantly higher with the CFL's meaning that you are paying twice as much monthly to power the lights.  So even if you got suckered into buying a $322 HPS, you would still save money after only about 1 harvest by using the HPS


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## Crazy Horse (Jun 13, 2008)

My 200 watt cfl produces 18000 lumens, so that would equal 600 watts to equal 54,000 lumens. But any ways, I think I will try a MH setup. I love my little cfl, but not going to know if a MH is better unless I try it myself. Thanks for the input fellas, and of course you too HempGoddess (your little girl there looks healthy and really bushy!).


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jun 13, 2008)

Hey...Hey..crazy...when you purchase your MH be sure to get replacement bulbs..dont want to be runnng 24/7 find out your light went out and then Have to buy a bulb..trust me friend on this one..Good luck


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## ChatNoir (Jun 14, 2008)

massproducer said:
			
		

> Are you saying this in favor of CFL's???
> 
> this says you need 930 watts, 33 actual bulbs in order to match 1 - 430w hps.  Plus with the CFL's you get a lot less penetration.
> 
> ...



I were neutral, I am still neutral... If I had a grow space of 2x5, I would definiately not use HPS lights... If I had a grow space of 7x7, then I would definitely not use CFLs.

Up to a certain area, CFLs are conomic, cool and flexible solutions but beyond that, they just can not handle the job. HPSs are superb for large rooms as CFLs are for small rooms.

Small shots for sparrows, slugs for pigs.


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## massproducer (Jun 14, 2008)

If i had a smaller space I would just opt for a smaller hps or MH.  I myself use 42 watt cfl's for cloning and sprouts.  I can understand very small boxes or micro cabs using CFL's but HPS's come in as small as 75 watts, and even at that wattage I still see them being a better bang for your buck


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## allgrownup (Jun 14, 2008)

i would get the 100 dollar setup from  htgsupply and in the HPS and then run the 400hps for veg and add the cfl's ya got to around the base with the hps in flower.

your going to be talkin to yourself at time of flower wonderin....why didn't i buy the HPS????  do you want tight buds or tight nodes??? and believe me.. .with the 400W of either you will have tight nodes.

i did this for a long time and it worked great.  Hps for veg/flower.  go for the quality of smoke and don't worry so much about the veg imo.


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## Pnw-cronic (Jun 24, 2008)

imho The cfl's are the way to you get so much more lumens for the amount of watts of electricity used they don't get hot and last for like 7 years I use a 250mh for veg and 10 cfl's for flowering the 6500k in the red range gives you crazy resin content they think its late autum and go nutts the cfl's I use are 25w so 10 of um at 25w is only 225w and I swear it's like 10 times as much light as the 400w hps that my buddy uses so the cfl's imo are the way to go...and thay are cheaper


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## Pnw-cronic (Jun 26, 2008)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> I run mine on 24/0. Tighter nodes and thicker stems are the main thing i've noticed using mh. I can put my seedlings about 6 inches from it with no probs. I use my cfls for side lighting if needed but for the most part just the mh.


 
I run my MH 24-7 also,but I turn it of for 15-20min once a week to let it cool down as sugested in the instruction book that came whith it they say it extends it the life of the unit:watchplant:


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## bombbudpuffa (Jun 26, 2008)

> you get so much more lumens for the amount of watts of electricity used


MH have better lumen to watt output.


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## ChatNoir (Jun 26, 2008)

Actually, CFLs need much more micro management. If you can make the management, you can get much more efficiency.


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## massproducer (Jun 26, 2008)

CFL's are not more efficient then MH or HPS lamps, that is fact.  Watt for watt they produce less light and more heat.


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## Pnw-cronic (Jun 27, 2008)

massproducer said:
			
		

> CFL's are not more efficient then MH or HPS lamps, that is fact. Watt for watt they produce less light and more heat.


 
More heat than a mh or hps? I can hold a cfl thats been on all day and its barly warm my mh would fry hand if i tried to touch it. They do produce less light watt for watt,but I use 25w cfl's that are eqalvant to 100w so I get a 1000w worth of light off 10 bulbs useing only 225w not saying thay are better just efficient


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## woodymanz (Jul 4, 2008)

massproducer said:
			
		

> Are you saying this in favor of CFL's???
> 
> this says you need 930 watts, 33 actual bulbs in order to match 1 - 430w hps.  Plus with the CFL's you get a lot less penetration.
> 
> ...


goto   www.insidesun.com for good and cheap lighting. I use them with no problems.

woo hoo happy fourth of JulY


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## Hick (Oct 18, 2008)

Pnw-cronic said:
			
		

> More heat than a mh or hps? I can hold a cfl thats been on all day and its barly warm my mh would fry hand if i tried to touch it. They do produce less light watt for watt,but I use 25w cfl's that are eqalvant to 100w so I get a 1000w worth of light off 10 bulbs useing only 225w not saying thay are better just efficient



430W 1x430W HPS Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, = 123 lumen per watt consumed
990W 33x30W CFL Light Kit, 53.000 Lumen, = 53 lumen per watt consumed

hps is over "twice" as efficient as cfls


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## ms4ms (Oct 18, 2008)

I think the best way to prove this is to let them(other growers) find out the hard way, like I did. Who wants to maintain 30 bulbs while trying to grow. I am now a converted hps/mh guy who started with cfl's. My suggestion is if you still want cfl's to  find the big ones on the net and you won't need 30 bulbs. I started with a 200 w cfl that was huge.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 18, 2008)

Pnw-cronic said:
			
		

> More heat than a mh or hps? I can hold a cfl thats been on all day and its barly warm my mh would fry hand if i tried to touch it. They do produce less light watt for watt,but I use 25w cfl's that are eqalvant to 100w so I get a 1000w worth of light off 10 bulbs useing only 225w not saying thay are better just efficient



No, they are not more efficient--the equivalency thing doesn't count when you are growing plants.  You have 225W and that is it.  When you get all ten of your CFLs together, they are going to create more heat than a HPS of like wattage.  

Look around, you can find plenty of posts from former CFL users now using HPS.  There is just no comparision, especially considering that CFLs are not more efficient, are not cooler, are not cheaper...


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## la9 (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm going to explain this so everyone understands.

Yes 200 watts of CFL will generate the close to the same heat as MH or HPS.

The people convinced that it isn't is because of the package labeling. They think that since the package says equivalent to 100 watts that their 23 watt CFL is the same as a 100 watt bulb. In their mind they put (2) 23 watt bulbs together and they have 200 watts worth of light when they are burning 46 watts of light.So if you go and touch 46 watts of CFL you aren't going to get burned like you would with 175 watts of metal halide.

Basically people thik that 46 watts of CFL is actually putting out more light than 175 watts of metal halide.

If you put 175 watts of CFL next to 175 watts of MH you will get close to the same temperature when comparing.

Because of my explanation above you can never win an argument because the package says 100 watts and that is what they believe they are burning.

I can go into it further but I'm going to leave it here for now.

Hopefully that clears up some of the confusion, still you will have people thinking I'm wrong but that is just part of life.


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## King Bud (Oct 18, 2008)

Just to add a little..

Heat from a fluorescent setup is usually easier to control, because the heat is coming from a bigger area (like ten cfl bulbs, or four 4foot bulbs), than just the one bulb of a HID.


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