# Help choose between 2 diff dwc setups



## old blue (Aug 18, 2008)

I'll be moving into a new house in 2 months and will have a walk in closet specifically for growing. I was thinking of buying a 4x4x8 grow tent for flowering and a 4x2x4 tent to grow mothers and to clone and veg(under floros), to do a perpetual grow.  I was wondering what would be a better setup to grow 4-5 BIG plants in, single 3gal bucket dwc or 1 main 20gal rubbermaid dwc with 5 holes in the top??? The light i have is a 400watt digital hps with 30% blue added, that's in a cool tube. And with that wattage light, and having all that height, should i just let em grow up, or lst em? Or maybe should i buy another cool tubed 400 to add and run inline with mine and let em grow big???


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## BuddyLuv (Aug 18, 2008)

Go with single buckets. It will be easier to rotate the new plants in the garden while harvesting the old.


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## old blue (Aug 18, 2008)

BuddyLuv said:
			
		

> Go with single buckets. It will be easier to rotate the new plants in the garden while harvesting the old.



If i go with singles, is it better to go with 3 or 5gal buckets?


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 18, 2008)

If you plan to grow big you should go ahead an use 5gal, They drink alot in flower.


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## old blue (Aug 18, 2008)

TURKEYNECK said:
			
		

> If you plan to grow big you should go ahead an use 5gal, They drink alot in flower.



ok, i'll go with the 5s.  Since i'm gettin a 4x4x8 tent, should i use my 400 mh/hps combo to just veg in the mother chamber and buy a bigger light for the flower chamber, or is the 400 good enough? maybe go with a 600 or 1000 in a cooltube?


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## massproducer (Aug 19, 2008)

I would say that you want to consider getting a 1000 and a cool tube or 2 - 400's


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## old blue (Aug 19, 2008)

massproducer said:
			
		

> I would say that you want to consider getting a 1000 and a cool tube or 2 - 400's



hey mass, would it be more cost efficient to get the 1000 in a cooltube or just buy an additional 400 to run inline with mine?  Like i said above, i'm going to have a big flowering tent AND a seperate small mother & clone/vegging tent. So i can either use my 400 mh for the small tent, and buy the 1000 for the big one, or i can get t5s for the small tent and use my 400 with an additional 400 for the flowering tent.  Which whould be better? Is a t5 setup better to use for mothers/clones/vegging than my 400 mh???  It would probably be cheaper to just get a 1000, right?


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## city (Aug 22, 2008)

well from reading this and me i do both. so it just deppend on what you plan on doing. if you want to keep a low profile and do a sea of green grow. go with the tub. if you are only doing a couple of plants do the buckets..
you can harvest the same. 1-6' plant harvest the same as 6-1' plants. running that light in the tent i would go sea of green.


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## CasualGrower (Aug 23, 2008)

Depending on how big, Big is.... I grow about 6 3 footers under each 400 watt HPS. with pretty good results.


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## old blue (Aug 23, 2008)

CasualGrower said:
			
		

> Depending on how big, Big is.... I grow about 6 3 footers under each 400 watt HPS. with pretty good results.



I like the sound of that. I will be doing kind of a perpetual grow, so 6 3-4' plants in flower at a time is right about what i want. Do u think it's worth the extra $280 to add an additional cooltubed 400hps inline with mine? I don't know how much extra weight i would get by going from 1 400 to 2. I'll be growing 8wk flowering plants, so i'll basically be vegging for 8wks from cutting clones.


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## Brussels (Aug 30, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> I'll be growing 8wk flowering plants, so i'll basically be vegging for 8wks from cutting clones.


 
Old Blue, In my experience, if you veg clones for eight weeks, you're going to have some monster plants using DWC. If your intention is to have finished plants at 3' to 4' tall, you'll need to start flowering clones at about one foot. They'll grow a great deal more during flowering.

Also, using the formula of 50w of HID lighting per ft/sq, 800watts will do nicely. There will, however, also be another issue. The distance from your plant canopy to the light should be a constant distance. Light diminishes very quickly. Consequently, your light with need a method to be raised and lowered -- I use simply pulleys with cleats to secure the lines -- or you'll need an adjustable platform for your plants to sit on. With four 5gal dwc's, that platform will need to be quite sturdy.

One last 'fly in the ointment' is going to be draining and replenishing your solution.  Inside your new house, in a 4'x4' space, this could range from difficult to a disaster. I use a pond pump to replace/add solution: also, my five gal buckets have a drain fitting near the base, with a length of clear plastic tubing attached. A gravity drain works well for me. This tube has the added advantage of, when secured in a vertical position up the side of the bucket, shows the solution level at a glance. 
While an incredible method to grow, DWC does take a bit of forethought.
Good luck with your project, and keep us informed...B

Edit: Just one last thought: exhaust. If your tents will be in a walkin closet, venting into your attic might be ideal. Few of us want to cut a hole in an outside wall, to install a 'dryer vent' coming from a bedroom.


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## Puffin Afatty (Aug 30, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> I'll be moving into a new house in 2 months and will have a walk in closet specifically for growing. I was thinking of buying a 4x4x8 grow tent for flowering and a 4x2x4 tent to grow mothers and to clone and veg(under floros), to do a perpetual grow. I was wondering what would be a better setup to grow 4-5 BIG plants in, single 3gal bucket dwc or 1 main 20gal rubbermaid dwc with 5 holes in the top??? The light i have is a 400watt digital hps with 30% blue added, that's in a cool tube. And with that wattage light, and having all that height, should i just let em grow up, or lst em? Or maybe should i buy another cool tubed 400 to add and run inline with mine and let em grow big???


 
*:ciao: OldBlue*

*:farm: I only use about 1/2 of my space, the far end, for my grow.  I use 1 400w hps for the lighting and it does fine for me.  placing the 400w in the middle of a 4ft side, 24 inches from the back wall, gives me the most efficient use of the lamp [only effective in a 20-22 inch radius from the lamp]  it nicely lights a 4ft x 4ft area. I can get alot of 22 inch tall colas in a 4x4 canopy  *

*That said, when I want more depth, I run a light mover   :hubba: *

*I have often contemplated going to a 1000w, and I'd have to move the right side wall, raise the ceiling and run a new circuit from the box.  Way toooo much work for me and On top of that, I dont need that much smoke :rofl:*


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## old blue (Aug 30, 2008)

Brussels said:
			
		

> Old Blue, In my experience, if you veg clones for eight weeks, you're going to have some monster plants using DWC. If your intention is to have finished plants at 3' to 4' tall, you'll need to start flowering clones at about one foot. They'll grow a great deal more during flowering.
> 
> Also, using the formula of 50w of HID lighting per ft/sq, 800watts will do nicely. There will, however, also be another issue. The distance from your plant canopy to the light should be a constant distance. Light diminishes very quickly. Consequently, your light with need a method to be raised and lowered -- I use simply pulleys with cleats to secure the lines -- or you'll need an adjustable platform for your plants to sit on. With four 5gal dwc's, that platform will need to be quite sturdy.
> 
> ...



The closet is fairly spacey, so i'm not too worried about access to the plants for water changes. The way i'll do it is have 4 extra buckets to use for the change up, to simply lift the "net lid" and transfer it right to the new bucket, and just remove the old ones, one by one.  Due to the veg/clone area being low, i'll be using 3 1/2 gal buckets with 6in net lids in veg, and then put the lid on the 5 gal buckets when putting them in flower, to let the roots breath a lil more. Or should i just stick with 3 1/2 gal the whole way thru?

And about the 8 wk veg. That would include a few weeks for the clones to root, that will be taken a week before the vegging plants go into the flowering chamber. So, in reality, they'd be only vegging for 6-7 weeks. And i'm only going to do 4 plants at a time, and top or lst them in veg. I've decided to just stick with the 400hps i have, and flower the 4 lst'd bushy plants at a time.  I figure if a plant is cloned for @ 2 weeks, vegged for 6 weeks, then in flower for 8 weeks(doing short flowering strains), i can get a fairly decent yeild every 8 weeks. ;-)


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## Brussels (Aug 30, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> And about the 8 wk veg. That would include a few weeks for the clones to root, that will be taken a week before the vegging plants go into the flowering chamber. So, in reality, they'd be only vegging for 6-7 weeks.  ;-)


 
"In reality", for 6 or 7 weeks of dwc vegetative growth, you'll have massive plants to deal with. I have seven successful dwc grows behind me, and I'm simply trying to give you fair warning and sound advice, not diss your thoughts on the subject. Doing 'hand transfers' into spare buckets is fine for one or two plants. (it's still messy, get a good tarp)I quickly tired of it with four plants in 5gal buckets. I suspect you're tire of it after a couple weeks like the rest of us and moved on to a more time/labor efficient method. 

Your clones, if done in rockwool cubes (I always boil my rockwool first) will take root in from 7 to 10 days. If you use coco coir, it's take 6 to 7 days...B


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## old blue (Aug 30, 2008)

Brussels said:
			
		

> "In reality", for 6 or 7 weeks of dwc vegetative growth, you'll have massive plants to deal with. I have seven successful dwc grows behind me, and I'm simply trying to give you fair warning and sound advice, not diss your thoughts on the subject. Doing 'hand transfers' into spare buckets is fine for one or two plants. (it's still messy, get a good tarp)I quickly tired of it with four plants in 5gal buckets. I suspect you're tire of it after a couple weeks like the rest of us and moved on to a more time/labor efficient method.
> 
> Your clones, if done in rockwool cubes (I always boil my rockwool first) will take root in from 7 to 10 days. If you use coco coir, it's take 6 to 7 days...B



Well, i greatly appreciate any and all advise u can give me. I do want to have 4 bushy monsters(i'd like to get 2-3ozs/plant). I want a pretty even canopy so that my 400watter will penetrate. 

And i made one of massproducers, DIY cloners, that i plan to use.  And i'll either put into rockwool after they root, or just put rooted clones right into netpot with hydroton. 

I can see how changing out all the buckets every 7-10 days will be a pain, especially with having 4 in veg, and another 4 in flower all the time. So what do u recommend as an easier way to change solution. I'm thinking maybe cut a 3/4" hole in lid, and stick a tube down to the bottom(with a screen taped on to not suck roots up) and use an inline electric pump. And then just reverse it to refill the buckets with new solution. That would probably be easiest.


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## andy52 (Aug 30, 2008)

dang,i'm going to try one bucket for my 1st run and you guys sure made me sweat there,lol i will do some serious thinking about the res change deal.i'm in tents and it has to have some thought.thanks all for the great ideas


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## HydroManiac (Sep 3, 2008)

Are you sure your tent can hold HID lights usually tents hold flos or cfls...


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## old blue (Sep 4, 2008)

HydroManiac said:
			
		

> Are you sure your tent can hold HID lights usually tents hold flos or cfls...



That's not true. Actually tents are made to handle HID lights.


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## ALLWaYsHiGh (Sep 4, 2008)

im going to do 4 5gal buckets in flower too but for veg im goining to start them off in a tote together  then put them in the 5gal under 400hps


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## old blue (Sep 4, 2008)

ALLWaYsHiGh said:
			
		

> im going to do 4 5gal buckets in flower too but for veg im goining to start them off in a tote together  then put them in the 5gal under 400hps



How long will u be vegging for? Won't their roots get to tangled up? I don't think this will work for me, being i'll be doing a perpetual grow, so they'll be vegging the whole time others will be in flower. So, i'm guessin they'll be huge by the time they go to flower with a big root structure.


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## ALLWaYsHiGh (Sep 4, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> How long will u be vegging for? Won't their roots get to tangled up? I don't think this will work for me, being i'll be doing a perpetual grow, so they'll be vegging the whole time others will be in flower. So, i'm guessin they'll be huge by the time they go to flower with a big root structure.


 
Yea thats what i was thinking but my veg space is limitted and i want to do prepetual allso thats why its goning to be an experiment probably 2-4wks veg time tops depends on root mass


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## old blue (Sep 4, 2008)

ALLWaYsHiGh said:
			
		

> Yea thats what i was thinking but my veg space is limitted and i want to do prepetual allso thats why its goning to be an experiment probably 2-4wks veg time tops depends on root mass



I take it ur going to have dedicated mothers? I'm not, i'm just gonna keep vegging and take clones off of veg plants a wk before putting them in flower. So i won't need an area to keep mothers. It'll just be a constant cycle with new clones, in various stages. ;-)  That way, i'll be able to do a long veg stage(6-7 wks) each time to harvest 4 lst'd monsters every 8-9wks.


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## MrPuffAlot (Sep 5, 2008)

Use 5 gallon buckets..
you'll only use 4gallons of solution in the buckets.(at the most)
Larger the volume, less PH drift.

Ive tried 3gallon buckets with 2gallons of water.. and youll 
be adjusting your buckets every couple of hours.

lol  4/5+ DWC buckets.. haha.. will be very labor intensive.  Believe me.
Get yourself a good TDS/PH meter.. and youll still be in for alot of 
"adjusting" for each bucket... whew..

IMO:  start a EBB/FLO table and 1 DWC bucket.  checking/adjusting 2 resvoirs
is 100x easier than check/adjusting 6.  believe me.


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## Brussels (Sep 6, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> Well, i greatly appreciate any and all advise u can give me. I do want to have 4 bushy monsters(i'd like to get 2-3ozs/plant). I want a pretty even canopy so that my 400watter will penetrate.
> 
> And i made one of massproducers, DIY cloners, that i plan to use. And i'll either put into rockwool after they root, or just put rooted clones right into netpot with hydroton.
> 
> I can see how changing out all the buckets every 7-10 days will be a pain, especially with having 4 in veg, and another 4 in flower all the time. So what do u recommend as an easier way to change solution. I'm thinking maybe cut a 3/4" hole in lid, and stick a tube down to the bottom(with a screen taped on to not suck roots up) and use an inline electric pump. And then just reverse it to refill the buckets with new solution. That would probably be easiest.


 
Blue...I wanted to keep up with your thread, but I've been away a few days. Okay, I'll do my best to outline what you're in store for with Four 5 gal DWC's going at one time. Most of the points I'm going to make are not opinions, or 'guessin': They come from many errors made in the past, and correcting them on the 'fly'. My only motive is to attempt to assist you and perhaps other from making the sometimes critical errors I've made.

One 400w HID is not enough for a 4'x4' space, especially for the size plants you envision. 800w minimum, 1Kw best. Lights need to be adjustable up and down.  If not, plants will stretch, and be 'leggy' with large internode spacing. Of course, yield will be less that expected. 

Good venting is absolutely necessary. No argument there.

Larger DWC grows (yours fits this category) is almost a full-time job. It's not just "changing solutions every 7 to 10 days" As the plants grow, solution intake is incredible, and levels need to be monitored. As solution levels drops, pH can be altered radically and must be monitored.  < I refill using 50% solution mix> Get at least a 10 gal black solution mixing container from a hydro shop, and attempt to time solutions changes on only two buckets at a time. Makes the draining and filling chore much easier. Speaking of draining, I'm including photos of one of my buckets with a gravity drain. It is also handy to see your solution levels at a glance. Yes, get the blue not clear tubing -- you'll get algae growth in the clear ones. Gravity draining works well for me. I have a hole drilled into the lid of my buckets and use a 280 gph pond pump to refill two buckets at a time. Just make sure the refill tubes are the same length from the 'Y' so they'll flow at the same rate. I use black electrical tape to cover the hole.
Remember, you'll not be able to use the handle on your bucket --  the plant is in the way, they're heavy. 

Maintaining solution temperatures are critical. If the solution gets to warm, all kind of nasties start to happen. Keep it cool.

Now, the subject I hesitate to address again: clones. Please believe me, your tent will be full from four plants that have had 6 to 7 weeks of vegatative dwc growing. It won't work. Trim that to three weeks tops. You'll have to trust me on this one, I've made that error before. Even with three weeks veg, you'll have little room near the end for lst.

I have no idea of your growing experience level Blue, and feel your volumn is for advanced growers. I have managed two dwc grows during fall and winter months for the past three years, and I'm finished with it. Great yields, sure, but it's just too much for me. 
I'm currently making an experimental coco grow keeping a careful log for a comparison to dwc. So far, I love it. Fast and easy.
I'll be happy to provide links to some of my other grows if you'll PM me. Again, good luck, and I wish you success with your plans...
Brussels

http://www.greenpassion.org/f20/coco-coir-grow-seeds-6735/


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## old blue (Sep 6, 2008)

Brussels said:
			
		

> Blue...I wanted to keep up with your thread, but I've been away a few days. Okay, I'll do my best to outline what you're in store for with Four 5 gal DWC's going at one time. Most of the points I'm going to make are not opinions, or 'guessin': They come from many errors made in the past, and correcting them on the 'fly'. My only motive is to attempt to assist you and perhaps other from making the sometimes critical errors I've made.
> 
> One 400w HID is not enough for a 4'x4' space, especially for the size plants you envision. 800w minimum, 1Kw best. Lights need to be adjustable up and down.  If not, plants will stretch, and be 'leggy' with large internode spacing. Of course, yield will be less that expected.
> 
> ...



Thank u so much for ur advice, Brussels. I decided on buying a 1k hps and just use my 400 to veg with. I'll have all 9 ft height in my walk in for adjusting the lighting as well.  I understand what ur saying about them overgrowing from that much vegging, so i guess i'll just play it by ear and see if they get out of hand and then i'll learn how best to time it. I'm also not totally sure what strain i'm gonna grow yet, so i'm not sure how big they'll get. They deff won't be 100% sativa.  

The thing is, i don't want to keep mothers, and i want a small perpetual grow, so i figured the easiest way is to do a quick flowering strain(most likely Bigbud or something like it), and while plants are flowering for around 7-8 weeks, others will be in veg during that time, getting ready for flowering.  I figured a week before putting them in flower, i'll take clones and start them in veg, therefore having a sort of perpetual type grow.  Can u think of another way i can have this perpetual grow, WITHOUT keeping dedicated mothers? 

Ventilation will be under control. I'll be venting into the attic. And i realise that it's alot of work to manage 4 dwc buckets, but i have plenty of time(i'm self employed) and actually enjoy spending an hour or more a day taking care of my plants. 

I like ur advice about the gravity drain. I'm going to use that method, and I'll most likely just change 2 buckets at a time.  When u make ur gravity drain and water level hose, how exactly did u do it and what was used in order for a tight seal?


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## Brussels (Sep 6, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> I like ur advice about the gravity drain. I'm going to use that method, and I'll most likely just change 2 buckets at a time. When u make ur gravity drain and water level hose, how exactly did u do it and what was used in order for a tight seal?


 
I get the fittings from my friendly hydro shop guy. They're very standard. Hell, if you lived next door, I'd give you these. I do use a silicone sealant in the little channel on the rubber grommet, which takes a 7/8" wood bit. Never had a leak. I'm goin to convert all my 5 gal dwc buckets for coco grows this fall. I'm already "that happy" with coco. Growth is already on par with dwc. Next Tuesday, I'll post my updated pics of that grow, you can see how fast they're growing...B

Edit: the blue tubing is half inch ID

http://www.greenpassion.org/f20/coco-coir-grow-seeds-6735/


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## andy52 (Sep 6, 2008)

hi hydro,sorry,i just saw your post.i ahve hids in both tents,doing well too.2,400 watters.


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## andy52 (Sep 6, 2008)

brussels,what size tubing are you using for the gravity drains on the buckets?


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