# plant rotation during the flowering period?



## zem (Dec 14, 2009)

Many growers rotate their plants during flowering to allow light for the shaded parts of a plant so that the buds on these parts grow better. Other growers believe that rotating the plant every week or two in flowering in fact causes the plant to lose some flowering time adjusting to the new location of the light source. they believe that  would cause the buds not to grow as big as they should since the light is not getting to the leaves enough time for them to grow the buds since much time is lost while plants adjust to light. outdoor sunlight moves daily and a good way to replicate this indoor is with a light mover but this is not the case in question. 
what i and other growers would like to know is what the effect of rotating a plant has if done manually several days apart during flowering? does anyone have info about this? sources or links? do you rotate your plants during flowering? or not? if you do when, how, why, or why not?? 
many thanks for sharing, zem


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## MarihuanatrÃ¤umt (Dec 14, 2009)

I move mine around once every 2 days, why not sure maybe im lazy???  Sounds like this topic needs to be tested some day.  Maybe on my next grow I will move half around the whole plant life and half I will never move.  IMO the ones moved around will get more bushy.


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## pcduck (Dec 14, 2009)

What other growers? I have never heard of this?


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## Mutt (Dec 14, 2009)

I run my lights vert with plants all around., I rotate mine every day or every other day at about 1/4 rotation per turn (its easy when there square pots LOL ). I also have CFLs to help out in the shade parts as the main bulb is a 400wMH. I don't think it matters a whole bunch how much how often and when, leaves will turn which ever way they need to. But i like to do it also gives me the opprotunity to check over the plants more carefully each day 
I haven't noticed a whole bunch of - effects. I mean the sun does it all during the day.


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## 2Dog (Dec 14, 2009)

I rotate mine outside more....so that the north sides facing the fence get the benfits that the south side of the plant does..if that makes sense..I also wedge them apart with little branches to let sunlight inside..


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## BBFan (Dec 14, 2009)

Phototropism.  When you rotate the plants- it continues.  It's actually the shaded side growing faster, causing the plant to bend towards the light (or at least appear to do so).

IMO it won't help the "shaded" buds grow better or faster.  Photosynthesis is still occuring within the plant- it doesn't matter that the light is hitting it directly or not.  The process of photosynthesis creates energy that the plant utilizes for many things- including root growth- by creating cellular mass.  How much light do your roots get?

Just my thoughts based on what I've read.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 14, 2009)

BB now that makes sense!  ZEM, thank you for starting this thread and inviting me to check it out but...I'm not interested in other peoples oppinions on the subject...sorry.  I asked if there was any scientific proof to your theory that moving the plants was in some way harmful to the plant or the yeild.  Unless there is proof...then it is an oppinion and should be stated as such, telling someone it is harmful to turn their plants is not right unless there is some proof to the theory.  I have already seen 2 new growers in other threads freaking out, worried they have stressed their plants because they read that crap, that you shouldn't move plants...thats all I'm saying if there is no proof to the theory then don't state it like it's one of the 10 commandments...I have several books on growing MJ and I have never read anywhere in any of them that we should not move our plants.  I also have freinds that rotate all the time, and have great yeilds...I personally don't rotate, cause I'm lazy...lol...actually I'm sure they get rotated because I have to move plants to feed and water, and I'm sure they don't get put back in the exact same spot.  I think if someone got hermi's, or a sorry yeild, they should probably look into what other things they have done to stress their plants other than rotate, or move them.

Again people Indoor growing is not about replicating the outdoors.  Indoor growing is about getting the best yeild out of the best environment you can give your plant...it's not copying the outdoors...because something happens or doesn't happen in nature means very little in our indoor grows.


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## NorthernHoney (Dec 15, 2009)

Well I am going to rotate my plants and love them and nuture them, then, I'm gonna kill em and smoke em!


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## pcduck (Dec 15, 2009)

*legalize_freedom* I am confused:confused2: If we are not reciprocating the outdoors what are we doing...The sun = hid lights, the wind = our fans, The rotation of the earth = our timers, the rain = our watering, see where I am going with this? About the only things I try not to reciprocate are disasters. I just put my indoors at the optimum outdoor conditions.   My figuring is they sure have been growing outdoors a whole lot longer than they have indoors, and for me to change any of their basic growing ways, I would have to live a few hundred centuries to do this. Just my $0.02:bolt::bong2:


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## pcduck (Dec 15, 2009)

NorthernHoney said:
			
		

> Well I am going to rotate my plants and love them and nuture them, then, I'm gonna kill em and smoke em!




:yeahthat: right now:bolt::bong2:


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## OldHippieChick (Dec 15, 2009)

:rofl: 





			
				NorthernHoney said:
			
		

> Well I am going to rotate my plants and love them and nuture them, then, I'm gonna kill em and smoke em!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 15, 2009)

pcduck said:
			
		

> *legalize_freedom* I am confused:confused2: If we are not reciprocating the outdoors what are we doing...The sun = hid lights, the wind = our fans, The rotation of the earth = our timers, the rain = our watering, see where I am going with this? About the only things I try not to reciprocate are disasters. I just put my indoors at the optimum outdoor conditions.   My figuring is they sure have been growing outdoors a whole lot longer than they have indoors, and for me to change any of their basic growing ways, I would have to live a few hundred centuries to do this. Just my $0.02:bolt::bong2:



LOL--we are controlling and manipulating our growing conditions to optimize them--this does not mean that we are trying to change how the plant grows, just give it the best of what it needs--this is what optimizing conditions means.  If we were trying to replicate outside conditions, we would set our lighting and light schedules up to duplicate the sun's duration and movement--but we dont, we run extended veg cycles and force flowering.  We would also be watering with rain water with no nutes (and only when it actually rained), we would turn our fans on only when the wind blew.  We wouldn't be cooling or heating our spaces...etc, etc


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## cmd420 (Dec 15, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> LOL--we are controlling and manipulating our growing conditions to optimize them--this does not mean that we are trying to change how the plant grows, just give it the best of what it needs--this is what optimizing conditions means. If we were trying to replicate outside conditions, we would set our lighting and light schedules up to duplicate the sun's duration and movement--but we dont, we run extended veg cycles and force flowering. We would also be watering with rain water with no nutes (and only when it actually rained), we would turn our fans on only when the wind blew. We wouldn't be cooling or heating our spaces...etc, etc


 
:yeahthat: 

we are trying to exaggerate and develop all the positive conditions that are favorable to growing..._not duplicate outdoor conditions_...


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## pcduck (Dec 15, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> LOL--we are controlling and manipulating our growing conditions to optimize them--this does not mean that we are trying to change how the plant grows, just give it the best of what it needs--this is what optimizing conditions means.  If we were trying to replicate outside conditions, we would set our lighting and light schedules up to duplicate the sun's duration and movement--but we dont, we run extended veg cycles and force flowering.  We would also be watering with rain water with no nutes (and only when it actually rained), we would turn our fans on only when the wind blew.  We wouldn't be cooling or heating our spaces...etc, etc



I think that is what most of us try to do but to say that we are not copying the outdoor environment is just false. We just use it to our advantage which is making use of optimization that we have.(light timers..ect..)   Unless someone has found some mj that does not need light, water,ect..


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## BBFan (Dec 15, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Again people Indoor growing is not about replicating the outdoors...there is no comparison! *Indoor growing is about getting the best yeild out of the best environment you can give your plant*...it's not copying the outdoors...because something happens or doesn't happen in nature means very little in our indoor grows.


 
Good point LF!  It is sheer arrogance on the part of man to try to command nature or attempt to reproduce it.

We can identify some of the essential elements and provide what we can through artificial means- but we are not replicating the outdoors.

Wish I could.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 15, 2009)

Duck I think you misunderstood my post or are reading way too much into it.  Of course plants need water, fresh air, wind, and light.  But they don't NEED it Exactly the way that nature gives it to them, if we did it EXACTLY like nature (which we never could I've never seen a HID as powerful as the sun, and I know that I am not GOD) we would not be able to get finished product in a short period of time.  It is about manipulating the environment to get the best out of the plant, not copying the environment...we don't make our lights rise from the floor from the east in the morning and lower to the west at night.  We don't gradually make our days shorter, we do it suddenly to induce flowering, suddenly so that we can get our yeilds in the shortest amount of time possable.  My fans blow constantly in my room to get strong stems, the wind outside does not blow constantly....there are bugs outside...hopefully there are none in your grow...but if we were copying nature we would have them.  Plants do not get topped or supercropped, or have LST done to them in nature, but good growers incorporate these methods in their grows to get increased yeilds.  I made this statement  because people always use the excuse "it doesn't do that in nature" whenever it fits thier oppinion.

It is NOT false to say we are not copying the outdoors...it IS false to say that we are copying it.  If you are copying it, or think that you possably could...well good luck to you!


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## ASEgrower (Dec 15, 2009)

Boy this one really broke down.  I think there are just a few different people saying the same thing.  

I think that it would be interesting for a person to take two seperate grows and use a light mover that would move from one side to another over the light period, and just rotate the other garden.  Of course, you would have to do this experiment at least 50 times in order to get a big enough sampling to form an opinion with a basis in fact.

IMO, its a moot point.  If there is a enough light, and your canopy is evenly covered, then it doesnt need to be rotated or have a light that moves around.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 15, 2009)

I decided that this comment was not needed in the thread, it was more of an imature lashback on my part. anyone that read the original  thread here please accept my oppologies, there was no need for me to go there.


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## 2Dog (Dec 15, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> BB now that makes sense! ZEM, thank you for starting this thread and inviting me to check it out but...I'm not interested in other peoples oppinions on the subject...sorry. I asked if there was any scientific proof to your theory that moving the plants was in some way harmful to the plant or the yeild. Unless there is proof...then it is an oppinion and should be stated as such, telling someone it is harmful to turn their plants is not right unless there is some proof to the theory. I have already seen 2 new growers in other threads freaking out, worried they have stressed their plants because they read that crap, that you shouldn't move plants...thats all I'm saying if there is no proof to the theory then don't state it like it's one of the 10 commandments...I have several books on growing MJ and I have never read anywhere in any of them that we should not move our plants. I also have freinds that rotate all the time, and have great yeilds...I personally don't rotate, cause I'm lazy...lol...actually I'm sure they get rotated because I have to move plants to feed and water, and I'm sure they don't get put back in the exact same spot. I think if someone got hermi's, or a sorry yeild, they should probably look into what other things they have done to stress their plants other than rotate, or move them.
> 
> Again people Indoor growing is not about replicating the outdoors...there is no comparison! Indoor growing is about getting the best yeild out of the best environment you can give your plant...it's not copying the outdoors...because something happens or doesn't happen in nature means very little in our indoor grows.


 

when growing outside I dont use bottom on the pots (dont want stagnate water) I have to rotate very regularly or the roots will grow right into the ground...


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## BBFan (Dec 15, 2009)

:rant: 
:confused2: :confused2: 

What did leafminer say?  Was his post deleted?


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## Mutt (Dec 15, 2009)

Seems to me the best thing to do is post up what works for you as an individual. Let others post up the same and let the person asking the ? make up there own mind. 
All I know is what works for me..but might not work for someone else. We all have different enviro variables that we might not even know about. If it works go with it...if it don't try something else...It is after all a weed and not heart surgery 
I don't rely on "scientific evidence" I grow every plant..if I try something new its on 1 or 2 if it did better than the rest then it works. If not ditch it and try something else. All it needs is light, nutrients, water, and air. The rest is maximizing.  scientific evidence has its place, but I don't think there's a report on rotating plants is a good thing or a bad thing, if you get better results doing it go with it, if not don't.
Its a weed...good grief think some people the way they are acting someone bad mouthed the pope or sumit.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 15, 2009)

MUtt I don't really rely on scientific evidence all that much  either, my whole problem with the original post was that people were talking about rotating plants was some terrible thing, not good for our plants, and it shouldn't be done, suddenly in a couple other posts people were all worried because they had been moving there plants, some rotating to try and get buds even amount of time in the light etc.

My whole problem is that at times people state their opinions as if they are facts, and people who don't have alot of growing experience see this and believe it to be gospel, when in fact it is an only oppinion...sometimes these oppinions are less than optimal.

When I give an oppinion I state it as such, with saying things like ...this is how I do it, or IMO, I would....I don't say do this, or don't do this unless it is a fact.  

Yesterday people were saying it is bad to move plants...because in nature they don't get moved...which led me to say we are not trying to copy nature, which was again not areed on.

My whole point is that we have alot of people trying to learn how to grow, they need to understand that we are not trying to replicate nature, we are trying to manipulate the environment to get the best yeild.  Evidently some people don't want to believe in that fact.

I just didn't want people basing their whole grow on a few peoples oppinions, that is why the statement came out the way it did...unless there is some scientific truth to the idea of moving plants being bad, then it should not be stated as it is one of the ten commandments.

Sorry if anyone is offended by the facts or my oppinions.


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## dirtyolsouth (Dec 15, 2009)

Any way that you can hit all the buds from as many angles from the light as you possibly can, the more dank and uniform maturity and development you'll have in your canopy and that's what we're all after.  When I grow really flexible sativa strains I'll often use stakes and tie the stems/buds down to a stake for a while and then I'll untie it and turn the stem/bud over and tie it down to get light to the under side of the bud and there are no gnomes around here that do that for my outdoor plants.   Through using LST and pruning I attempt to keep all my buds within 36" of my light which is optimum outer range for my 1K hps. I guess it's the equivalent of trying to give my gals 12 hours of high noon every day... :hubba:  

Happy Growing!


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## zem (Dec 15, 2009)

ye LF it was my mistake i stated my belief as a fact didnt say "IMO" i still take it forgranted that people know that it's just opinions what they read here but ye you are right many newbs who know nothing would take bad opinions as facts... that said i'll get back to the subject, rotation. what made me believe that plants should not be moved too much is because i had plants that were bent to one side so i let them grow then after 3-4 weeks in flowring i rotate them 180 degrees to let the buds from shaded part to grow but i saw that they take time to start growing and the bent plant adjusts its position to the light it takes days till i see buds growing again. this led me to ask questions about this and this was long ago in an old forum that has crashed. then many growers came to say that they dont rotate after they put in 12/12 only if the plants stretch and need to be moved apart they are moved, i wish i had info saved from there but i think there was some sources from books that said this but im not sure really. i remember very well that the general consensus then was that they shouldnt rotate plants since i stopped rotating them since i had this opinion and i dunno but to me IME it looked like the buds are denser no more fluffy. now i read with all these growers here and all the ones who rotate are sayin they only do it in 1/4 turn and this miight be no harm since it will take the plant very little effort and stress to adjust it will be like the sun rise and set, maybe it can even help however i still wouldnt do it since it's too much effort to rotate em daily even in net cups in a DWC. just my opinion, cheers


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## DonJones (Dec 15, 2009)

*EVERYONE-*

I apologize for the confusion.  I for some unknown reason I addressed the post to the wrong person.  Only the first paragraph was directed to any one in particular and that was in response to legalize_freedom's original post #18.

Since then legalize_freedom has edited the post himself.  I also want to commend legalize_freedom for spotting the possible problem with the original post and editing it out.  That takes character to do. 

The rest of the post was intended as a discussion in general about some very harmful and disturbing trends in the MJ community as a whole and unfortunately even in our forums.

Now that my post has been deleted, it really isn't worth trying to repeat.  Those of you that read it,please be assured that none of it after the first paragraph was intended to apply to any one individual or group of individuals.

*Again, I apologize for the confusion and specifically apologize to leafminer because he wasn't even involved in this thread.*

Good smoking.


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## DonJones (Dec 15, 2009)

In my limited experience growing an the extensive experience of my mentors, rotating is neither good or bad, depending upon what the circumstances are.

Also, I know of NO reason to think the answer would be any different in veg than in flowering.

Sometimes I rotate a plant if I don't like something that looks like it might be light or breeze related, just like I may switch positions in the room if one plants seems to be getting more useful light than another one.

I do agree that EXCEPT IN EMERGENCIES any changes to a plants orientation or environment should be done in small steps.

*2dog,*  I don't know if it applies to weed or not but I was taught long ago by some very successful landscapers and have read it too that trees did a lot better if they were marked where the north side of the trunk was and then replanted facing the same way.  I never did really understand their reasoning about why it was that way, just that is was that way.  Like I said earlieer, I hav eno idea how this would relate to weed plants, if at all, but I thought about it when I ready your post about how you rotate yours outdoors.

On the water stagnation and roots growing into the ground issues, have you tried using some kind plate, like and upside down dinner plate that would let the water drain away from the pot and yet also keep the roots from growing into the ground.

It is ironic how much of what we learn is little pieces unrelated to the topic at hand.  I just realized that in my mind's eye outdoor grows were done by planting the plants into the dirt, not putting them in pots and setting the pots outside.

Good smoking and again I apologize for the confusion and any offense I may have caused leafminer.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 15, 2009)

I believe that we all rely on "scientific  evidence"to some extent--there is no reason to reinvent the wheel.  There are some things that we KNOW--that science has basically "proven" (okay, yeah, yeah, I know science never really proves anything).  However, I feel no need to try any other light schedule than 12/12 for flowering.  Controlled studies have been done and we know that this is the best light schedule to flower (non-autos).  Studies have shown that other light schedules produce less THC.  Other studies have been done...I know that nutrients are only available to plants at certain pH levels.  I know that marijuana needs certain temperature ranges to survive.  I know that a plant needs fan leaves to produce bud...

I don't know if plants suffer if you rotate them.  I don't know whether flushing really improves the taste of bud, I don't know if molasses makes the buds bigger, I don't know if darkness before harvest enhances THC...

Let's just all try and get along--Tis the season to be jolly:48:


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## Mutt (Dec 15, 2009)

I agree whole heartedly THG, plants need what they need, never up for debate much anymore. for what we grow the rules do fit. I mean in "tweaking" tweaking the grow is where it becomes personal and individual  I been yelled at to not use mollassas in my compost becuase it does no good..me on the other hand found that it is better  This I don't think is a "common growing rule thread" but more of a tweaking thread where everyone puts in there input 
Oh legalize don't worry bro my panties don't get wadded easy  I like a good topic and this one def. peaks my interest as being a vert grower its valuable info for me  99% of the growers online use horiz. not many use vert. So any input is great  Thanks for this thread Zem  you did ask personal experiences as well as scientific info. 


> what i and other growers would like to know is what the effect of rotating a plant has if done manually several days apart during flowering? does anyone have info about this? sources or links? do you rotate your plants during flowering? or not? if you do when, how, why, or why not??


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## DonJones (Dec 16, 2009)

Mutt,

When you use vertical HID lights, how do you do it, just hang the bare bulb/socket assembly and then arrange the plants in a circle around it?

Most of my lights are vertical within a horizontal reflector.

Good Smoking.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 16, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I believe that we all rely on "scientific evidence"to some extent--there is no reason to reinvent the wheel. There are some things that we KNOW--that science has basically "proven" (okay, yeah, yeah, I know science never really proves anything). However, I feel no need to try any other light schedule than 12/12 for flowering. Controlled studies have been done and we know that this is the best light schedule to flower (non-autos). Studies have shown that other light schedules produce less THC. Other studies have been done...I know that nutrients are only available to plants at certain pH levels. I know that marijuana needs certain temperature ranges to survive. I know that a plant needs fan leaves to produce bud...
> 
> I don't know if plants suffer if you rotate them. I don't know whether flushing really improves the taste of bud, I don't know if molasses makes the buds bigger, I don't know if darkness before harvest enhances THC...
> 
> Let's just all try and get along--Tis the season to be jolly:48:


 


AMEN GIRL!  PC Duck...I want you to know that I have no hard feelings toward you, I have usually agreed with you on things, and genuinely enjoy your company on here!  I sincerely hope that this differnce of oppinions, has not created any animosity between us, it was never my intent to do so.  If my statements offended you in anyway I'm sorry.  

I don't know what was said by leafminer, or any other posts that were put up here yesterday that were deleted, but I have faith in our MODS, and I'm sure they were doing what they saw fit. I was out most of the day, came back last night, and realized that the post I had put up was childish, backbiting.  So I removed it.  If this little swerve off the path of the original topic, or anything I said offended anyone I'm sorry, that was not my intent.

My intent is to grow the best weed that I possably can, and to help others do the same when I can.  I don't know everything, but I'm also not some newbie to this either.  I get bothered when oppinions are stated as facts, because things are confusing enough for new growers.  Especially when some of the oppinions just have no fact based reasoning.  I love this site...it has really kept me from being waaaay too bored during this lay-off.  I'm sure I'm anoying to some, because I am on here alot.  I'm not going to appologize for that...if I annoy someone, they can use the ignore button.  Hopefully we can all use this thread to our benefit in one way or another.  Again I'm sorry for any offense that I caused, and for the sidetracking of the original post.eace:


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## Mutt (Dec 16, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> Mutt,
> 
> When you use vertical HID lights, how do you do it, just hang the bare bulb/socket assembly and then arrange the plants in a circle around it?



yep with a fan blowing directly up with a squirrel cage above. Then on either side 2 42w soft white cfls one day when i decide the spend the bucks i want a cool tube vert with both HPS and MH.....one day. ya HEAR ME SANTA


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## DonJones (Dec 16, 2009)

Thanks Mutt.

Something that I saw recommended was hanging HO T-5s down through the canopy if you can find a way to prevent electrical problems from the moisture.  Haven't tried it though.

Personally I would use t-5s rather than CFLs unless you can use enough of them to light up the outside all the way around instead of just on 2 sides.

Just curious, why cool white when they have those daylight tubes now that nearly duplicate the sun's natural spectrum?

Thanks again for the post.

Good smoking


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## Mutt (Dec 17, 2009)

I run a 400w MH vert. but on either end of the closet is a shadowed place bad....so I hung a T-socket with 2 CFLs over on the ends where the main bulb light don't quite make it. I use 2800Kelvin CFLs as my MH has very little yellow. MH is like those "daylight" CFLs adding yellow is not a bad thing.
As far as the cool tube...its a tube reflector that the HID bulb slips into air keeps it cooler through the tube so you can get the plants closer to the bulb. The reason why i want both MH and HPS is for complete spectrum.


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## DonJones (Dec 17, 2009)

I always thought the warm white had more red and yellow spectrum than cool white. 

Then just about the time I kind of understood what the various names implied, they went out and invented a whole new list of names to learn and understand.  It is too bad that they don't list the color temperature right on the glass of every floro.

Now I understand your only using 2 CFLs instead of putting them all around your area.

I agree about the need for a mixture of MH and HPS especially during flowering/budding.  That is the only difference between my operation and my son's --until just recently I had only MH in both rooms and he uses a mixutre in his flowering room -- and he consistently out performs me.  I'm slowly but surely adding HPS to my room.  Either that or I'm going to add T-5s with the same color temp as the HPS.

I'm considering running a row of T-5s around the room about 2' to 3' above the floor and maybe hanging some down in the middle of the room to improve lower plant lighting without taking a chance on burning them with HIDs too close to the plants.

Thanks again for sharing your knowledge and explaining why you do it your way.

Good smoking


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## skoomaman (Dec 17, 2009)

Okay in my first grow(i wanted to experiment cuz i found a seed in my bud so i just used 3 cfl's to grow 1 sativa dom plant, dont bash me on this i did not plant on producing anything good)
when i put the plant in the sun it would always bend towards the sun so i would rotate it to keep it straight. now i have seen in medical grow ops that they use rotating lights that actually spin in cirlces around the plants quite quickly, and the guy was explaining that this was really good. any thoughts?


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 17, 2009)

sounds interesting...do you have a link to these grows, or this info?  I would like to check it out.  I know alot of people use a light mover to be sure all plants are getting the same amount of light, but I've never seen one that moves around the plants at a fast rate.


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