# perpetual schedule



## MoNoXiDe (Dec 4, 2013)

I don't know why, but for some reason I am way over thinking this and I can't come up with a game plan that makes since. 

I would like to be able to Harvest 3 plants every 3 weeks to a month. I have 2 main strains that I want to grow Kali-47 and Super Skunk. I really think that the Kali-47 is going to help my mother in law with her authritis and help her sleep. My wife will like it also, she has sleep problems. The super skunk is something I think I will like. The 3rd plant, I just want to be able to run random strains to test them out and maybe "if I like it better the SS or they like it better the Kali-47, I will start growing it instead. 

I tried to germinate 2 kali 47 "one to stay behind as a mom and one to move to the flower tent" and 2 SS "same as the kali 47 leaving one mom behind" and 1 Pineapple Punch "my random pick".

Only 2 Kali 47, 1 Super Skunk, and the Pineapple punch came through. So, I am missing 1 Super Skunk. 

So, what I will have to do is leave one Kali 47 mom behind and take a clone of the SS to leave behind. 

Now all of that said. The current plants are only 2 weeks old. Any help making me understand a plan I would appretiate. lol thanks


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 4, 2013)

There are a couple ways you can do this but it all depends on the amount of space you have and how much you are wanting to yield at each harvest. Hang on to yer socks, this is going to take a bit of explaining 

You can and should take cuttings from all of the plants when they are mature and ready to go to flower. It isn't necessary to hold out any for mother plants unless you have plenty of space and just want to. Even then I would recommend taking cuttings from all plants and labeling each one so that you know where they came from. Then you will flower all of the mature plants so that you can see which ones are the best and destroy the clones of the ones that you don't want.

Any time you have more than one plant(of the same strain) grown from seed, there will be variations within the seeds. You can often find 2 seeds of the same strain to have very different traits of growth structure, yield, flavor, and potency. By taking clones and flowering the mature plants and testing the outcome, you will be able to say "I definitely like this particular plant better than that plant", or find that one plant is weak and doesn't produce s well, or even ends up producing herms from weak genetics within that one seed.

All that said, if you want to have a _perpetual harvest _and you are only growing for a few people, or you have limited space for flowering, then you can use the same flowering space, but just don't fill it to capacity on the first few grows. Once you have all of the plant strains or plant individuals that you know you want to keep, then you can take clones from clones, and over time, you will have your space filled to capacity with flowering plants that are at different points in flower. You can have a particular plant that has only 2 weeks left of flower beside another plant of the same strain that has 6weeks of flower left and another that is just beginning flower.

With this _perpetual harvest _method you will be harvesting 1-3 plants every week to 2 weeks. Then as soon as you pull out those 1-3 plants, you would move more clones in that were waiting in veg. Once the initial plants have reached maturity, all of the clones from then on will be mature plants as soon as they root and technically are able to be flowered whenever you want to move them to the flower space.

The other way to do multiple harvests similar to a _perpetual harvest _but not exactly like it,(_what I call continual harvest_) is to have 2,3,or 4 individual flowering spaces. This is the method that I had moved to as I was growing for several people including myself. I had 2 veg spaces and 3 flowering tents. All of the strains that I grew were 9week flower strains. This allowed me to set plants into flower at 3week intervals. I would set new plants in flower in the first tent when they were mature, and after I took cuttings for cloning. Then 3weeks later, I had other plants that were ready to go and set them into flower after taking cuttings. 3weeks later, I set the next set of plants into the 3rd tent after taking cuttings. 3wks later I was harvesting the first tent and reloading with the clones from plants that I had taken earlier, and so on.

This type of _continual harvesting _is a great way of maximizing your production potential but it is a grueling schedule to keep and it takes about a year to get it set up correctly as it takes a lot of planning and scheduling to do it.

I wouldn't recommend doing what I did(_continual harvest_) until you really get all the strains down on their needs and styles. Plus with that style of _continual harvest_ you have to have strains that flower at the same rate. 
With a _perpetual harvest_, you can have strains of differing flower times, and the scheduling, tending, and harvesting isn't anywhere as grueling as the other. 

I think it would be easier to do perpetual harvest of 2-3 different strains in a larger tent or flower space like a 4x8 space rather than a small closet unless you are not needing much production at any one time. You will also have to have a decent sized veg space and a dedicated cloning space.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 4, 2013)

I do perpetual...I have a 9x5 space...add 2 plants every 2 weeks...I try and stay with strains that finish right around 8 weeks...Ive tried other strains that needed longer flower times and Really messed with me...Im Harvesting 2 plants every 2 weeks now and 2-3oz per plant...:aok:

Happy Growing:48:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Dec 4, 2013)

Everything he said was awesome and spot on... but I disagree with just one thing up there. 

Perpetual vs Continual. 

Hush, you think it's harder to do Continual over Perpetual? hah, really? In my mind, if you have (say) 1 veg space 2 flowering, the simple fact of keeping a 4 week staggered gap between the two tents makes continual easier.. heck, just having all the same age and requirements in one tent seems so much easier, than say, 4 different finishing times in 1 tent. Heck, if you have only 1 light in there, and 4 things that are maybe 2-3 weeks apart.......you're going to have CRAZY size differences. And then, only if you're soil / soilless (or even DWC in buckets) can you move the plants higher than another to equal out the canopy. 

I've setup as such to be continual. I have 1 veg 4x4 and two flower 4x4's.. I have two 4' 4bulb T5 fixtures in my veg, so I can make multiple heights and 'stadium seating' for my veg stuff. Also, in each flowering space, I have two 600w HPS fixtures, that I also find my self setting at different heights to meet the plants needs. This would be what you would HAVE to do to run perpetual without loads of stretching.. you'd need multiple fixtures in each tent. Also, if you were perpetual, you have to keep track of extremely varying schedules and processes for each staggered plant. 

So my point is, I truly believe continual would be a bit easier than perpetual. I'm still not even 1 year into this growing thing though, so maybe I just don't really know what I'm saying hahhahaha  

Time to hit this bong. Hope I've helped and not made things more confusing lol!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Dec 4, 2013)

> Im Harvesting 2 plants every 2 weeks now and 2-3oz per plant



What's your experiences with things like what I said in my last post? Especially height differences with different ages strains? If I'm correct, you're soil (or something like that) so you bring the plant up to the light when it's younger don't you? :confused2:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 4, 2013)

Mono--refresh us on your situation--the size spaces and the lights you are using.  I read so many posts that I forget.  Are these all fem seeds?

I am thinking though that you didn't have a lot of veg room, so I question whether you should even keep moms--most of us don't, we take clones from clones like Hushpuppy mentioned.  You can take clones from clones for many many years before the strain starts to deteriorate.  

I pretty much like to do like 4u putting a couple of new plants into flowering every 10 days to 2 weeks or so.  I am working mostly with 9 week strains because those are the strains I like.  And 9 weeks is just 2-3 days longer than 2 months and easy for me to keep track of.  If I have a strain that goes longer or shorter by a week or so it is not a problem.

One of my concerns and one of the reason that I grow perpetual is that I could never sit down and trim for a week solid--my hands will just not take it.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 4, 2013)

I too dislike the weekly trimming...I can handle a QP every other week...


*Dr.G*.....I do use milk crates if the plant is smaller than others..I also have 2 lights I can set at diffrent hights...:aok:..look for my Video upcoming near Christmas...


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 4, 2013)

well, ever since I posted the thread about my daughter asking questions.  I am in the process of building a new room in the garage.

I will have my 4x4 flower tent in there.  The rest can be veg room. I have a 4' 6 bulb T5 for veg.  I don't mind not having 2 moms, so I can save space.

I can build my veg space to whatever I need to.  The room is 9 wide and 7 deep.  i wish I could do a computer design for ya'll like Shortbus did for me, that way you could see what I am thinking.   

The 4x4 tent will be in the corner. I will have 5 foot of room to the side of it, I was going to put my T5 there.  So it would be 2x5, If I need to buy another T5 and make it 4x5 I can do that.  I think that might be too much for that area.


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## WeedHopper (Dec 4, 2013)

Ive done Clones from Clones and NEVER had a problem. Mother Plants are a pain in the ***. I do like Staggered grows though. I had too cause I didnt have alot of room to grow several plants.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 4, 2013)

Vigorous Sativa hybrid, with exquisite aroma and strong and lasting effects.

Crossing of a selected Kali Mist, adapted to Mediterranean climate for over 9 years, x AK - 47, the result is a mostly Sativa strain with a short flowering cycle and a satisfactory performance. Its flavour is very sweet with reminiscent of caramel and fruits. It&#8217;s easy to grow, ideal for beginners.
Genetic:  Kali Mist x AK-47
    Yield:  400 - 450 Gr/m2
    THC:  19%
    Indoor height:  60 - 85 cm
    Outdoor height:  200 - 300 cm
    Indoor flowering period:  From 55 to 60 days.
    Harvest:  Mid-October.

when it says 55 to 60 days "flowering period" This does mean it takes that many days once in 12/12.  So, how ever long it takes to get alternate nodes, the add 55-60 days in the flower tent?


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## chazmaine420 (Dec 4, 2013)

mono,
that would be yes on the flowering period. on average plants go nine weeks in flower. My method is to harvest every nine weeks. I think having all the plants in your flower tent on the same cycle is a lot easier than trying to juggle different time windows. You get one nice harvest every 2 months. Re pot your veg plants and move them to the tent. with some experience you can yeild a pound from a 4 x 4 with a 600 hps easy.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 4, 2013)

MoNoXiDe said:
			
		

> Vigorous Sativa hybrid, with exquisite aroma and strong and lasting effects.
> 
> Crossing of a selected Kali Mist, adapted to Mediterranean climate for over 9 years, x AK - 47, the result is a mostly Sativa strain with a short flowering cycle and a satisfactory performance. Its flavour is very sweet with reminiscent of caramel and fruits. It&#8217;s easy to grow, ideal for beginners.
> Genetic:  Kali Mist x AK-47
> ...



That sounds like a really nice strain.  I will be interested in hearing how it smokes.  

I sometimes get preflowers before I get alternating nodes.  So, I would say that 55-60 days after either alternating nodes or preflowers.

Everyone has to find their own 'best way to grow".  For various  reasons, I do not like doing 1 large harvest every 9 weeks.  It just  works a lot better for me to cycle plants in and out of the flowering  room every 10-14 days.  I do think that if you run perpetual harvest that a 2 x 4 veg space (no moms) will be large enough.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 4, 2013)

When I was running 3 flowering tents, I was harvesting between 16-20oz dry weight at a time from each tent. cutting and trimming all that material is totally great for the first 3hrs. The next 4hrs is just painful, and that is 2 experienced trimmers working together. I was doing that every 3weeks when It was running wide open.

Is that space you are building a simple rectangle? If so I would put the door in one corner and then close off a 7x5 space on the opposite end side and have the tent in the back of the space left over that is opposite of the door as you walk in. That would give you a 3x4 space when you go in the door for working in. This would be a tight space for working but having 35square feet of flowering space would make doing a perpetual harvest with 2-3 strains much easier to manage. The veg space doesn't need to be but half as big as the flower space.

In the 5x7 you could run 9 plants, or 3 rows of 3 plants. This would allow you to have 3 separate cycles if you want to do them in discreet schedules. I have a friend that was able to run 4 different strains in the same space and everyone of them were on different schedules, and he was able to keep them straight just by watching them flower and checking trichomes for harvest times. He was also in a 5x5 space and had typically about 7-9 plants but grew them small. He typically only harvested about 1oz per plant and pulled out 1-2 plants every 2 weeks.

I prefer to have only 2-3 distinct harvest schedules so that I have them equally spaced for my convenience. Plus having 3 separate tents allowed me to harvest a nice load each time. Doing that type of setup within one space on a smaller scale should be much easier (I believe) as the plants would be smaller so harvesting wouldn't be a trim-a-thon every 3 weeks.

The only thing with doing that in a 35sqft space is that you would need either 2 1kwHPS fixtures or 3 600wHPS fixtures, or 4 400wHPS fixtures to get real good budz.


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## DrFever (Dec 4, 2013)

i found doing perps  trying to harvest every 2 - 3 weeks is seriously not worth the time and hassle    specially  small plant count  then again  i am sure someone will mention   they have a specific plant number allowed  
 you need  3  seperate rooms    it takes a good  cycle to get it all lined up    clones  you need    4-6   times more then you would have in veg or flower room  as well veg room  needs to have more then you have in flower  room   in order to  harvest every  2 weeks  i did it for 3  grows  and stopped  was  litterally  full time  job lol  difference was  12 plants  every  2 - 3 weeks  and i think it worked out like having  300 clones  going non stop       70 plants in all stages in veg  and  at most 24 plants in  flowering room  add that all up   and  you   have a **** load of plants  if  caught


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 5, 2013)

from the sounds of it, its doable but its alittle more difficult.  It's probably easier for me to do 2- Kali 47 then 1 month later start 2 super skunk. this would leave 2 spots open for the plants that need longer to finish.  I would still have room to move the next cycle into the flower tent.  Maybe down the road when I get some grows under my belt, I can move into the more difficult grows.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 5, 2013)

MoNoXiDe said:
			
		

> from the sounds of it, its doable but its alittle more difficult.  It's probably easier for me to do 2- Kali 47 then 1 month later start 2 super skunk. this would leave 2 spots open for the plants that need longer to finish.  I would still have room to move the next cycle into the flower tent.  Maybe down the road when I get some grows under my belt, I can move into the more difficult grows.




Its the passion my friend

:48:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 5, 2013)

DrFever said:
			
		

> i found doing perps  trying to harvest every 2 - 3 weeks is seriously not worth the time and hassle    specially  small plant count  then again  i am sure someone will mention   they have a specific plant number allowed
> you need  3  seperate rooms    it takes a good  cycle to get it all lined up    clones  you need    4-6   times more then you would have in veg or flower room  as well veg room  needs to have more then you have in flower  room   in order to  harvest every  2 weeks  i did it for 3  grows  and stopped  was  litterally  full time  job lol  difference was  12 plants  every  2 - 3 weeks  and i think it worked out like having  300 clones  going non stop       70 plants in all stages in veg  and  at most 24 plants in  flowering room  add that all up   and  you   have a **** load of plants  if  caught



I have run this way for years and it works great for me and I do it with 2 rooms. I run about 8-10 plants in my flowering space. I have 4 clones rooting.  I have 2 plants that have just gone from the cloner to DWC.  I have 2 God's OG Kush that are a few weeks older.  I have 2 Satori that are 2 weeks older than that.  I have 1 Nurse Larry and 1 Beyond the Brain that are a few weeks older than that.  This weekend, 2 plants will come out of the flowering room and 2 vegging plants will go in.  It simply is not that difficult on a smaller scale.

I cannot imagine how you could possibly need 300 clones going when you are flowering at most 24 plants.  Also I cannot imagine having 70 plants in all stages of growth if you are flowering 24 (at most).  I have 10 plants in flowering right now and I have 8 vegging and 4 cuts in the cloner.  If you are using reg seeds, you would want to start more.  But if you are using clones, I don't really understand the need for 300 clones and 70 vegging plants to fill a 24 plant flowering room?


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## WeedHopper (Dec 5, 2013)

Im with you THG,,sounds like alot of work for 24 plants. Hell that sounds like another job. Screw that. I just want enough weed for me and tha Wifey. That doesnt even sound fun anymore.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 5, 2013)

i like the method THG is using, going to apply that to my grow for sure.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 5, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I have run this way for years and it works great for me and I do it with 2 rooms. I run about 8-10 plants in my flowering space. I have 4 clones rooting.  I have 2 plants that have just gone from the cloner to DWC.  I have 2 God's OG Kush that are a few weeks older.  I have 2 Satori that are 2 weeks older than that.  I have 1 Nurse Larry and 1 Beyond the Brain that are a few weeks older than that.  This weekend, 2 plants will come out of the flowering room and 2 vegging plants will go in.  It simply is not that difficult on a smaller scale.
> 
> I cannot imagine how you could possibly need 300 clones going when you are flowering at most 24 plants.  Also I cannot imagine having 70 plants in all stages of growth if you are flowering 24 (at most).  I have 10 plants in flowering right now and I have 8 vegging and 4 cuts in the cloner.  If you are using reg seeds, you would want to start more.  But if you are using clones, I don't really understand the need for 300 clones and 70 vegging plants to fill a 24 plant flowering room?



sounds really nice.  I will just have to find the right strains that are closer to the same length of time in flower.


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## DrFever (Dec 5, 2013)

well  think of it this way  a person wants to   have 12 plants  every 2 weeks  to harvest   so  litterally  your sticking  12 plants every 2 weeks into your flower room     average  flowering  time  lets say  8 weeks   so putting 12 plants every 2 weeks  works out to having  48  plants in flowering room   8 weeks later  your chopping  your first 12 plants    2 weeks after that  the next 12 more and so on ....
  In the mean time  your chasing   by  still throwing 12 plants  every 2 weeks into  flowering   your going to need  lots in veg  as well lots of cuttings  now to make it worth your while  your going to want  to   have some decent  vegged plants   so this is where  your initial  veg room gets full  growing some decent sized  plants to make it worth  it  as well  most strains rooting  takes  18 - 22 days to root  this is where your going to need lots of  cloneing  in order to maintain   this  cycle  constant  as well  a decent sized plant   of average 10 oz  dry per  or why bother  really  to   chop 12 plants  @ 1/2 - 2 oz dry ???? IMO that is wasting  power and your time


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 5, 2013)

In your original post on this you were talking about flowering 24 at the most at a time.  So you need no more than 24 vegging or in the cloner at one time.   Harvesting an 8 week strain every 2 weeks, you take 6 out to harvest, move 6 from vegging into flowering and start say 12 new cuttings to replace the 6 plants that you harvested.  Take the best 6 clones from the cuttings.  

I don't know anyone here who is growing 10 oz plants indoors.  A 4 oz plant is a nice sized plant.  However there is no reason that your yield would be any different growing perpetual than with a room where everything was harvested at the same time.  I know that I get more than 1/2 to 2 ozs from my plants.


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## DrFever (Dec 5, 2013)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> In your original post on this you were talking about flowering 24 at the most at a time.  So you need no more than 24 vegging or in the cloner at one time.   Harvesting an 8 week strain every 2 weeks, you take 6 out to harvest, move 6 from vegging into flowering and start say 12 new cuttings to replace the 6 plants that you harvested.  Take the best 6 clones from the cuttings.
> 
> I don't know anyone here who is growing 10 oz plants indoors.  A 4 oz plant is a nice sized plant.  However there is no reason that your yield would be any different growing perpetual than with a room where everything was harvested at the same time.  I know that I get more than 1/2 to 2 ozs from my plants.


you got to realize if you want to harvest 24 plants every 2 weeks   you  and again its  a 8 week strain  you need to put  plants in every 2 weeks     you mention  take 6 plants out to harvest  then replace them  well  then its not every 2 weeks  right  there going to be there for 8 weeks  which throws out  the 2 week  chopping???
  Bottom line  if you  even had 6 plants thrown into flower and want to  harvest 6 plants every 2 weeks   on a 8 week strain by the time  the first 6 are ready  your going to have  24 plants in flower room  running 2 week chop   sure  way you are saying is  just that having a supply  of plants  ready to go into  Flowering  which is also called a perputual grow 
  but   setting up to harvest  6 - 12 - 100 plants every 2 weeks  is what i am getting at  not just soon as your plants are done throw in  more into flower  room , i was talking about  chopping  12 plants or how many every 2 weeks  and keeping it going so every 2 weeks your chopping  12 or how many plants


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

its really not that hard, your going to have to start a semi small army of vegging plants first, if you dont have some on deck ready to flower then your going to end up running very small plants and yielding less every 2 weeks, build the army first then march them to their final destination... jars lol working with an 8 week strain and on a rotation of 2 weeks, your first have to figure out how large and how many you can fit in your space, reason for how large is to guage how you need to veg them inorder to not have dead space in your flower room to optimize production without cramming the crap outta them, so lets say your space can hold 16 plants total of decent size, that means your harvesting 2 plants and rotating in 2 new plants from veg ever 2 weeks. so starting off your vegging plants untill you have at least 8 (assuming your flower space can hold 16) and clones that are rooted and starting to veg along with taking new clones from the older vegging plants, a constant rotation of clones is necessary but remember they take 2-3 weeks to fully root and start exploding with growth again so youll have to make sure you have enough ready and on deck so you never get to a point where you have no vegging plants and only clones left, so first week after all plants are vegged and ready move 2 into flower, 2 weeks later add another 2, so on and so forth until your at your max of 16 for your flower space, all the while taking clones and rooting a ton of them to keep a constant supply of vegging plants large enough to start flowering, then from there its take 2 down replenish with 2 new ones, your defentaly going to have to concentrate alot on cloning and making sure you can get clones to take every time so you never run out of suitable replacements for the ones you chopped. still i highly suggest building up a healthy army of say 20 plants in veg before you start to rotate in flower, its going to take some time to get things down and maintain a healthy rotation without draining your veg plant / clones supply.  when i get down into this more myself im defently going to be pulling my homemade 32 site bubble cloner bucket out and dusting it off, never had enough clones to fill the cloner, never put more then 6 in it but they all rooted after 14-16 days.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 6, 2013)

how many days out should I start cloning, to know they will be ready to go? Also, to get 2 clones to go into veg how many clones should be cut?  Rule of thumb cut 2x the amount you'll need?


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 6, 2013)

well what im doing to get ready for a perp harvest, i already have a Northern Light and a Sleetstack Skunk plant that are not only ready for flowering but are also ready (in another few days) to take more clones, i took 6 clones from each plant about 3 or 4 days ago now. keep in mind that a plant may be able to veg quicking in 2 weeks yet it typicaly takes upwards of 2 sometimes 3 weeks to get clones properly rooted so they can be transplanted and begin their veg phase. id say work on building up your army of vegging plants first and yeah take 2x what yah need in terms of clones, as THG said to me it took a while to build up the nerve to pull and throw out perfectly good rooted clones but i agree its better to have to throw away extra clones that you dont need that are just taking up too much space, rather then not taking enough clones and being short and running your clone/veg supply down too low. iv decided that im going to work with 1 plant on a 2 week rotation to begin with and get the basic feel of the perpetual rotation down pat, after that ill work on increasing the amount i rotate out/in each time.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 6, 2013)

I am going with a every 3 weeks 2 plants.  I'm going to do 2 of the same strain "to make them approx the same length veg / flower"  So in rotation if I have my math right.  Between day 1-120 days, I will only have 10 plants in rotation.  "not counting clones.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 7, 2013)

just remember you may be able to veg a plant to the size needed in 2 weeks but clones can take up to 3 weeks to root enough to be transplanted into cups/veg containers, so keep that in mind, or your vegitative/clone stock will quickly go away.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 7, 2013)

Oh wow,  I didn't realize that.  So veg'ing clones doesn't take as long as from seed? I was planning 2 months in veg room


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 7, 2013)

LOL--I certainly cannot get a plant to any size in 2 weeks from seed.  Also when going from seed they are not going to be sexually mature and regardless of whether you put them into 12/12 they will not flower until they are ready--but they will S  T  R  E  T  C  H.  

I like to start clones before I put the plants in flower that they came from in case I have problems and need to cut some new clones.  The getting started is the hardest part.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 7, 2013)

Once a plant reaches maturity, any cuttings that are taken from that plant are also mature and are the same age as the parent plant. So technically you could take clones that have just rooted and put them straight into flower. But most people will set them in veg, after the 2-3weeks rooting period, and then let them veg until they are at the right size or until the next flowering space comes available. During the rooting period, the plants grow very little if any. That is one way you can tell when the roots have sufficiently developed, when the plant begins to take off with veg growth.

If plants get too big in veg and there still isn't flowering space available, then don't be afraid to cut them back like you would any shrub in the yard. I have cut some clean down to the point that there were just a few leaves and a branchy stump, and within a few weeks they were bushes again.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 7, 2013)

thanks for the info Hush.  I have always grown from seed.  I have never dealt with clones before.  Once the clone takes root and is ready to be put into soil and veg, how long "ballpark" to get it ready to go to flower?


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## WeedHopper (Dec 7, 2013)

Clones are an awesome way to grow,,especially if ya find a Pheno that you really like. I have made Clones from clones many times over with no problems. At least ya know your not wasting time or space when ya take clones from a female. With seeds ya never know untill sexed.


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## Hushpuppy (Dec 7, 2013)

Once the clones are fully rooted and you transplant to soil/medium, its really up to you and the plant how long it stays in veg before going to flower. I took a clone once for a micro/hydro grow and set it in its medium and let it set for a week in veg just so it would get itself settled in, then moved it right to flowering. It grew up about 19" tall and within 1sqft of area and produced right at 1oz of nice tasty bud,(dry weight) when harvested. 

But most of the time they stay in the cloner 2wks, then I let them go in veg for 3-4 weeks until they are at the height that I need. I also like to do some training and Fim to get my plants bushed out before putting them into flower, so for me its typically 5-7wks (depending on the strain) from cutting to flower ready.


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## MoNoXiDe (Dec 7, 2013)

thanks, that's good info I need to know when setting up the schedule.


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## KoDak (Jan 6, 2014)

its too late for me to cut clones if they go into flower jan 8 right? because they need to heal.


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## ozzydiodude (Jan 6, 2014)

No you can take clones any time during flowering. It just take the cutting longer to root and go back into vegetative growth stage.


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## KoDak (Jan 6, 2014)

So I should cut in veg..... not fully knowing if the plant is male? I have cloned. Im scared ill cut at the wrong point. Ill have to know everything I need. I heard ppl like something called bubbling I think. Im.not for certain. Ill ask around for items and prices ranges for everything


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 6, 2014)

You can take cuttings during the first week or 2 of flowering without any issues, but the longer the plant goes into flowering, the longer it will take for the cutting to do what you want it to do. I suggest that you go to Youtube and watch some cloning procedure videos as there isn't a whole lot of variation to taking cuttings. I would watch several of them so that you can see some different ways that people do it and also to get somewhat of a consensus of the process. I prefer to take my cuttings from the bottom growth of the plant, and during the last week of veg before I put them into flower. 

If you look at your plant, at the lower growth branches that are bigger, you will see some secondary branching coming off the bigger branches. These smaller branches will be anywhere from a couple cm tall to several inches, depending on the size and age of the plant. I prefer to take these branches that are about 5-10" tall, and have 3-5 leaf nodes. Many people will top their plants and use the cuttings taken from the top, but I prefer the lower branches as they will root more easily.

A bubble cloner is, IMO, the best, cheapest, easiest way to clone. But there are multiple ways to do it. You can build a bubble cloner out of a small plastic tote, neoprene pipe insulation, air pump and stone, and a small fish tank heater. Here is some pics of my first one that was very small and worked sooo well: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=183400&d=1326252628
Here is the same cloner, looking at the roots that are developing after a week: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=185494&d=1329698136

If you would rather go the "planting" route, you can use rooter cubes and they are easy to use as well. Here is what I used: http://www.plantlightinghydroponics...rooter-50-cell-tray-organic-plugs-p-2669.html
They are quite easy to use and work quite well. I took my rooter tray, which is just plastic, and cut it into smaller groups of 6 cube trays rather than trying to use the whole tray for just a few cuttings. Here is a pic of my bubble cloner and the rooter cubes in a plastic tote, sitting on top of about 2" layer of hydroton. I did it that way so that I could water them and keep the extra water from collecting and the cubes sitting in water. Plus I could put solution in the hydroton and allow the cubes to "wick" it up, and it helped to keep the humidity higher around the cuttings.: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=184935&d=1328754411
If you are interested in using my methods, just ask and I will explain further.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 6, 2014)

KoDak said:
			
		

> So I should cut in veg..... not fully knowing if the plant is male? I have cloned. Im scared ill cut at the wrong point. Ill have to know everything I need. I heard ppl like something called bubbling I think. Im.not for certain. Ill ask around for items and prices ranges for everything



I usually don't clone until I know the sex of the plant--until I see preflowers.  However, there is no problem with taking clones from everything when you are first starting out.  Just make sure that all the clones are well labeled so that you know which is which when you do have them sexed.  I almost always trim up the bottom of the plant before I put it into 12/12 and I generally use what I have trimmed off for clone starts.  Don't be too worried about cutting in the wrong place--just take some growing tips from the bottom of the plant.  Read up on cloning and give it a try.  Once you have females, you can take clones from clones and not have to keep mothers.

Bubblers come in all shapes and sizes and are extremely easy to make at home with a few supplies you either have or can pick up inexpensively at any store carrying pet supplies--a small air pump, some air line and an air stone or 2.  I an not a big fan of You Tube in general, but they should have a lot of good ideas for a lot of different kinds of bubblers.


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## KoDak (Jan 6, 2014)

Im growing in soil. Clinging isn't only for hydroponics right?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 6, 2014)

Cloning plants can be used in multiple ways, so no its not just for hydroponics. Typically, people who run hydro will clone into root cubes of one sort, or another or as I do, just root plants straight into the water without any kind of medium and then set the rooted plant into medium when it is ready. My method is fine for going into soil, and using rooter cubes is fine for going into soil as well. The cloning process is very versatile for whatever grow method you wish to use. 

THG: I don't trust the "tube" very much either as it is just too easy to show b.s. on there. But if you watch a few vids on taking cuttings, you can get a good idea of what needs to be done, and then have a good mental picture to go along with what you read here


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## KoDak (Jan 6, 2014)

quick question. im growing and this guy keep  telling me i need to change the soil. it'll be going into flower on wednesday. I think that changing the soil will disrupt the plants growth. am i correct? is there a list of things i can buy to do the bubble cloner?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 6, 2014)

It depends on the soil that you have them in, and the nutrients that you are feeding them, if any. It also depends on the size of the pot that they are in. If in a small pot then they need to be transplanted to a bigger pot so the plants don't struggle with root binding. Ideally for soil grown plants, I would put them in a 3gallon pot or bucket. Just make sure it has good drainage holes.

*For a cloner you will need *1 plastic "tote"(storage container with lid) which can be bought at walmart or home improvement stores. Here is one from walmart that is about right size for about 6-10 cuttings: hxxp://www.walmart.com/ip/Rubbermaid-6.5-Quart-Clever-Store-Container-Clear-Comfort-Blue-Set-of-10/16539898
You will need to get some neoprene pipe insulation from Lowes/home depot that is for 1/2" pipe: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Armacell...lene-Pipe-Wrap-Insulation-OEP05838/100572787#
This you would cut into several pieces about 1-1/2" long. You will have plenty left over.

 You can probably find the plastic tote at home depot or lowes that works like the one at walmart. You just need a small one that is *about* 10" deep by 12"wide by 16" long (the exact size isn't critical as it can be bigger if you want. I just like one that is about 1-3gallon size so that it isn't too big for just 6-10 cuttings). If the tote is clear you will need to spray paint it brown or black to block light from getting to the roots.
Then you will need a real good fish tank air pump(one that has 2 hose connections) with a couple air stones that will fit inside the tote. You will need about 6-10' of air hose for the pump/airstone. While at the pet store to get the air pump and stone, get a 50watt fish tank heater.
get a 50watt heater that is has temp adjust: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752191&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No
Here is a good pump: http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3742976&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No
They have the air hose and stones. I would get this kind of stone as it works really well, just get the longest one that will fit inside the tote (get 2 of them): http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2752197&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No

That is all you will need for the bubbler. You will need to get a decent pH tester for checking your water so that you give your plants the best water and solutions possible.
To make the bubble cloner You will need to cut holes in the lid that are about 3/8" smaller in diameter than the diameter of the pipe insulation. I just equally space out the positions for the holes to be drilled so that they are about 1 inch (1") apart from each other (look at mine in the links that I sent you earlier). Some people use a knife to cut the holes but it is easy if you know someone who has a drill and some paddle bits. that you can use to drill the holes out with rather than fighting with a knife.

Once you have your holes cut, you just squeeze the cut pieces of insulation and press them into the lid so that they are sticking out both sides of the lid equally. I also drilled a couple holes for the air hoses to push through the lid rather than having them go through one of the cutting holes. Then connect one end of the 2 hoses to the 2 air-stones and the other ends to the air pump. Then the cloner is ready to go (unless you had to get a clear one, then you have to spray paint it so no light goes through to the inside. don't worry about the little bit of light that will go through the holes in the insulation collars where the cuttings sit). 

I also recommend that you get some clonex gel and clonex solution. These are not absolutely necessary but will greatly increase your success of cloning new plants.
When I am ready to take cuttings, I put my tote in a good place where it can stay in good temps of mid 70s and not a lot of outside light but fresh air. I set my air pump, stones and heater in place then fill my cloner with water up to about 2" below the bottom of the lid. No closer as the water will rise when the air pump is turned on. Make sure you have nice vigorous air bubble action, like the water is at a hard boil. I then add my clonex solution to the water (at 15ml per gallon of water I believe, according to the clonex directions) I turn on the air pump and water heater(set to 79degrees), and let it bubble for about 1hr then I check the pH of the water. If it is between 5.7-6.3 then it is good. I prefer to have it right at 6.0 and the water at 78-80f for best results. 

When that is all straight, I begin taking cuttings that are long enough to set down into the holes in the insulation and stick down into the water about 1". I like to cut my stems so that there are about 3-5 leaf nodes so that when I cut off some of the leaves, I still have several leaves at the top of the stem to hold the plant up. I cut the bottom so that it has about 1cm of stem below the lowest node where a leaf was removed. I cut that on an angle and then lightly skin the outer part off just a bit up to the node, and then I dip that into my clonex gel and set aside for about 10minutes before putting it into the cloner.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 7, 2014)

KoDak said:
			
		

> quick question. im growing and this guy keep  telling me i need to change the soil. it'll be going into flower on wednesday. I think that changing the soil will disrupt the plants growth. am i correct? is there a list of things i can buy to do the bubble cloner?



What does he mean by "changing the soil"?  No one actually changes the soil--it would be impossible to do without damaging a lot of roots.  Also why is this person involved in your grow?  Why does he think he is qualified to tell you how to grow?  Don't take advise from people uness you know that they know what they are talking about and are qualified enough to be giving advise in the first place.

Second, go to You Tube, check out some bubble cloners and decide you want to build.  You will take your material list from the kind of bubbler you decide to make.  I never use a heater when cloning.  I have more problems keeping the temps low enough.  I also prefer two smaller air stones to one longer one.


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## KoDak (Jan 7, 2014)

He's not involved in my grow. He just ask questions n I allow that but just as u said n untold him, its impossible to do without disrupting the roots. Im.about to do more research on here and YouTube

Also thank u hushpuppy. I appreciate u simplifying it for me. Thank u both. Let me go get started.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Jan 7, 2014)

> I have more problems keeping the temps low enough. I also prefer two smaller air stones to one longer one.



Heh, I have more problems keeping the temps UP!  

I also use two stones, but I use two longer ones. I want bubbles to hit every spot under that cover possible. :aok: 

Everything is so subjective though, me being extreme North East area and using 15 gal, long tote... so I need longer stones and two of them, and I need warmer. So fun doing this thing we all do, and watching how really subjective and situational everything really is.


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## KoDak (Jan 7, 2014)

yes DGF, everyone has their own way on doing things and why its better for them. this is gonna be my first time cloning and with too much info, sometimes i get nervous, but ill just go for it. mistakes happen and though ill try to avoid it, ill also accept it.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 7, 2014)

It is easier than it seems to clone. The worst that can happen is that you fail to get any to root and have to try again. THG made a good point about the heater. She has trouble keeping the temps down, while DGF has trouble keeping them up. Since you are up around the Lakes and have to contend with cold temps, the heater may serve you. Or you may find that you don't need it to maintain the water temps.

Once you get your cloner put together, you need to decide where to put it so that the cuttings have some light but not a lot. A key to rooting cuttings is to suspend(or pause) the vegging functions within the cutting without stopping it altogether. Pausing the veg function of the plant allows the rooting hormones to more easily take over the main function and produce roots more quickly. once the rooting has gone on long enough to produce a nice root mass, then you can turn up the light energy to cause the vegging process to get back underway. This can take anywhere from 2 to 5 weeks depending on the strain and your conditions.

I can get some cuttings to start popping roots within 6 days but my favorite strain (Larry OG Kush) can take anywhere from 14-21 days to begin to pop roots. So prepare yourself to be brutally patient for this process. Once you see roots developing, it still takes another one to two weeks before the clones are actually ready to move to the soil.


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## KoDak (Jan 7, 2014)

Do I need glue to hold any of this down inside the cloner


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## KoDak (Jan 7, 2014)

Should I get air stone or the flat air stone mist. Do I need any valves?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Jan 7, 2014)

This may or may not help you but here's my cloner. I use two 14" stones in my tote, they are from Wally Mart and work decent, just have to make sure nothing floats. 

Also, I use NO glue for anything. Gluing things just makes for complications down the road. Creates little nooks and cranny's you can't quite get at. 

The point of the cloner is to massively aerate the water, and get loads of bubbles to splat up to the top of it.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67089


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 8, 2014)

It is possible for things to be "too aerated"--too much moisture and bubbling can also drown the cuts.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Jan 8, 2014)

Indeed, THG. 

I would tend to think, though, that too much aeration is a LOT harder to achieve than too little, yes?


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 8, 2014)

You will not need any valves if you get 2 stones and the pump that has 2 ports. If you get one that has 4 ports, you can get 2 hose Ts and connect 2 ports to one hose so that you use all of the ports.

You will not need to glue anything down. Don't get the round plastic disk looking stones as they tend to float too much. The long tube stones work the best in my experience.

I have never heard that you can have too much aeration, but I can't say that I disagree. I have never had any problems from it, but I don't bubble mine as hard as one would in a DWC system. I would say that if it is literally splashing water out of the cloner then you can turn it down some with the adjustment on the pump that I showed in the link. I have done that before when my cuttings were sticking down into the water. But if the cuttings are not reaching the water then I turn it up to achieve a better splashing to keep them wet, which is ideal I believe.


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