# Bummed: more bad seed from Attitude - bad Kaliman!



## Old_SSSC_Guy

I am so bummed out.  Planned for a "Great American Cheese Off" using Kaliman Cheese, Kaliman Rockstar, and HFS Cheese.  Ordered the beans (and some Paradise Seeds Twilight) from Attitude.

Once again, maybe the 4th or 5th time from Attitude, the seeds are simply bad.  The Kaliman Cheese #1 germed only 2 seeds out of 10 (a few others popped but never grew).  The Rockstar Cheese germinated only 2 out of 10.  The HFS Cheese germed much better at 6 out of 10 seed (its always been very reliable for me, but more than that).  The PS Twilight germed 9 out of 10 seeds - and now all but 3 have simply stopped growing and died. Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods. 

The odds are with you that you will get failures, its mother nature after all.  I can live with maybe 1 the occasional packet of 3-4 packets being flakey - but this is getting downright silly and extremely expensive.

If I used Attitude orders as the guide I would not try Kaliman seed again.  However *I KNOW that Rockstar and Kaliman Seeds are reputable folks you can trust*; but now wonder where else I can buy their seed other than Attitude.

If you try to return the seed you get caught up in Attitude's Catch-22: they are selling "souvenirs only - not for germination".  On the one hand they stand behind their product - on the other hand if you germ and fail its not their fault because they are not for growing!  I have contacted then 2 times about returning OBVIOUSLY BAD SEED and although they seem to be open to it - you get cursury cold-shoulder responses which don't do much of anything to assure you of a replacement packet.  And what's the point - they send a dead packet, you have to pack it up, pay to send it back, and MAYBE get a packet; of other bad seed?

Grrr...  This is like the 4th or 5th time I have spent upwards of $75-$125 for a packet of almost total failure seed.

Why don't breeders put "use by" or "packaged on" dates on their darn packets!??!?!?!  How are we to know that people like Attitude are not shipping 1-2 yr old seed?  Do they ever test them themselves?  Not that I have ever heard of...  If you are a breeder selling through Attitude I'd have to recommend you place a couple of covert orders to see and verify that Attitude is shipping what you sold them at wholesale.

Anyone else getting dead packets from Atttitude?  Am I alone in this one?


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

I have not had any problems with Attitude seeds, regardless the breeder.  I don't think this can be Attitude's fault.  I do not believe that they are selling "bad" seeds.  I also believe that suggesting that they are committing fraud is a little out of line.  Seeds are viable for several years or more, however, Attitude sells so much that I believe that they probably have a quicker turn around of inventory and fresher stock than a lot of other seed banks.


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Well, I did not suggest they were committing fraud.  Myself, I do not agree that 'seeds are viable for several years or more' and believe they are *consistently and reliably* viable for about 1 year.  Past that I have always experienced the same failure symptoms - germinate enough to break the shell and then stop growing, or they grow a couple of inches then die.  Those two things are the #1 symptoms of old seed to me, based on my experience germinating seed for maybe 25 years now.

If the context of 'fresh because of high turnover' was truly the case it simply would not match with my own personal experience.  The highest failure rate of packets I have received from them have been new, freshly announced seed (i.e. Tangerine Dream, which others reported germ failures with).  However their 1-off freebie seeds seem to perform reliably although have brought in hermies.

Rather than saying "they are a fraud" I would instead suggest that they have storage and/or quality control issues which I have now personally experienced many times; enough times to illustrate a problem I am convinced that I am not alone in, regardless your own personal dislike for anything I post to the forum here.


----------



## Hick

Ten YEAR OLD SEEDS <----
   proper storage is certainly a factor in 'long term' "IMO", but I absolutely disagree with the idea that seeds are only viable for a year.  
   I recieved kali's cheese seeds "about" a year go, in the breeders pack. My plans were to germinate them soon, so I just dropped them in a desk drawer, no precautions taken at all. But other things got in the way and I never touched them until this Feb. 10 for 10 germinated and grew without any issue, 8 females.
   I don't claim to know "what" the problem is w/ yours ssc, but I'm ....hesitant to believe it is the age of these seeds. They've only been on the market for a year. :confused2:


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

Old_SSSC_Guy said:
			
		

> *....  If you are a breeder selling through Attitude I'd have to recommend you place a couple of covert orders to see and verify that Attitude is shipping what you sold them at wholesale.
> *



This indicates that you believe that Attitude is substituting seeds and not selling what the breeders are shipping them....that constitutes fraud.  I believe that is a very unfounded accusation.

I also do not believe that seeds are only viable for a year.  But regardless, I have a hard time believing that they had Kaliman's Cheese around for over a year, as Hick mentioned he is a fairly new breeder.


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

That is what I said above of Hicky Won Kanobee...  The failed seed has often been 'new' strains.  Like I mentioned above, one example is the Barney's Tangerine Dream, others would be the Kaliman strains.  

Doing verifications is common for wholesalers in many businesses and it has nothing to do with accusing anyone of fraud.  Even McDonalds sends around covert sample testers to verify their product is being distributed correctly, and companies such as Samsung, Sony, etc also commonly purchase their own product to verify the fulfillment side of things - and it has nothing to do with accusations of fraud.

Some mistakes are not made intentionally.





			
				Hick said:
			
		

> Ten YEAR OLD SEEDS <----
> proper storage is certainly a factor in 'long term' "IMO", but I absolutely disagree with the idea that seeds are only viable for a year.
> I recieved kali's cheese seeds "about" a year go, in the breeders pack. My plans were to germinate them soon, so I just dropped them in a desk drawer, no precautions taken at all. But other things got in the way and I never touched them until this Feb. 10 for 10 germinated and grew without any issue, 8 females.
> I don't claim to know "what" the problem is w/ yours ssc, but I'm ....hesitant to believe it is the age of these seeds. They've only been on the market for a year. :confused2:


----------



## greenjoe

unless you live  in europe...why would you order from them?...so many reputable seed banks here....IMO.....


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

greenjoe said:
			
		

> unless you live  in europe...why would you order from them?...so many reputable seed banks here....IMO.....



Who?  Where?  I have not found anyone in the US....


----------



## ozzydiodude

Where the seeds in the Org Breeder pack? If so I think you just lucked out and got 2 packs of bad seeds.

Kaliman and Rockstar have nothing but respect from everywhere I see them, and are both known for standing behind their seeds. Contact either of them and they'll take care of your problem. 

With the money Attitudes is making I dont see them taking the time to switch out seeds just for a few $$.


----------



## greenjoe

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Who?  Where?  I have not found anyone in the US....


I never said the us...

hey i believe to each his/her own....i was just asking a question...as in if your order gets stopped at customs why would you do it again...thats all (but the same would apply to you no matter where u order from).....i had no idea you lived in the us....or if i were to order from europe i would order from one that has shipping done from europe and canada.....and there are some that do that........as a matter of fact i just did that...beanboyzgenetics.com....IMO
i just have to wait and see how it goes with them and their product..
peace


----------



## 7greeneyes

I'm USUALLY planting beans that are two yrs old and some that are four-five years old and consistently have them germ for me. All but my first order was from Attitude...:cool2:

I'm fairly confident I could germ 10 yr old beans too, course treated with kitten gloves, but nonetheless...


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

greenjoe said:
			
		

> I never said the us...
> 
> hey i believe to each his/her own....i was just asking a question...as in if your order gets stopped at customs why would you do it again...thats all (but the same would apply to you no matter where u order from).....i had no idea you lived in the us....or if i were to order from europe i would order from one that has shipping done from europe and canada.....and there are some that do that........as a matter of fact i just did that...beanboyzgenetics.com....IMO
> i just have to wait and see how it goes with them and their product..
> peace



That is why I asked where "here" was.  I have not found anything in the US.  I order from Canada occassionally, but most of my seeds come from Europe because that is where they have what I am looking for.

I germed some Aurora Indicas from Nirvana for my debut organic grow.  They were at least 3 years old but popped just fine.


----------



## ColoradoLady

My product from Barney Farms via Attitude is less than great this year.  2 out of 5 seeds  were tiny and did not pop. Free WW seed very tiny and did not germinate also. Been doing this for a long time and all other seeds doing nicely but this really upsets me.  Hard earned money for seeds they knew were questionable at best!!


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Careful Colorado... Speaking anything close to ill about Attitude on this board is frowned upon.  Apparently only praise of them is permitted here.  Even when some seed from Attitude has a consistently high failure rate you are supposed to stay quiet and feel privledged.

:lama:


----------



## ozzydiodude

Thats where you barking up the wrong tree ppl, Attitude is just the Wally World of the seed seller THEY DONT MAKE SEEDS just sell what they recieve from the "Breeders". Now aday most of the "breeder" dont make their own seeds. They are paying ppl in Spain and other places. I pretty sure Nirvane is one of the ones that has other to make their seeds now. 

IMO going with the smaller "breeders/pollen chuckers" is where you will find the better genetics and true to what the maker claims strains.


----------



## Roddy

Old_SSSC_Guy said:
			
		

> Careful Colorado... Speaking anything close to ill about Attitude on this board is frowned upon.  Apparently only praise of them is permitted here.  Even when some seed from Attitude has a consistently high failure rate you are supposed to stay quiet and feel privledged.
> 
> :lama:




Oh please.....

First you say Attitude sells old seeds, then backtrack.


----------



## Roddy

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> Thats where you barking up the wrong tree ppl, Attitude is just the Wally World of the seed seller THEY DONT MAKE SEEDS just sell what they recieve from the "Breeders". Now aday most of the "breeder" dont make their own seeds. They are paying ppl in Spain and other places. I pretty sure Nirvane is one of the ones that has other to make their seeds now.
> 
> IMO going with the smaller "breeders/pollen chuckers" is where you will find the better genetics and true to what the maker claims strains.



Absolutely!

Do you suppose ANY breeder would use a wholesale distributor that'd make their product look bad? Attitude has a track record of good product, good CS.

How would "I" know about their CS?? Well, I too had a few seed I was less than pleased with (GHS) and sent off a letter to Attitude asking about the breeder. New seeds sent without question! Now, I come to realize this wasn't ATTITUDE'S problem, they're merely moving a product for someone else, but they still went above and beyond.


----------



## Roddy

*If you try to return the seed you get caught up in Attitude's Catch-22: they are selling "souvenirs only - not for germination". On the one hand they stand behind their product - on the other hand if you germ and fail its not their fault because they are not for growing! I have contacted then 2 times about returning OBVIOUSLY BAD SEED and although they seem to be open to it - you get cursury cold-shoulder responses which don't do much of anything to assure you of a replacement packet. And what's the point - they send a dead packet, you have to pack it up, pay to send it back, and MAYBE get a packet; of other bad seed?*

Have you ever tried just returning saying the product wasn't meeting up to your satisfaction? No grow talk, no germination questions, nothing but these aren't what I had hoped? You cannot talk growing or it's risking their business and likely getting you that cold shoulder feel!


----------



## BackWoodsDrifter

Like I be sayin at another fireside and be findin this here one mighty warm maybe bit to warm at times. Ifin I may say it gain here I have seeds handed down and handed down and handed down gain from friends and family and no word of lie the be over 50 yer old and to this day can still gettem to germinate. I think ifin a pilgrem be smart, yual find the breed yual like and does what yu need it to and then make yur own seed and not rely on these here seed banks that can sell yual crap and be takin yur hard earned money. I have found my likes in my seeds and makes me own as I need too and it aint to costin me nothin but me time and some energy 

BWD


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Huh?  Come on Roddy.  Is no complaint tolerated here at all!?  I said "Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods."  Sorry to have stated an opinion.  I said "ITS LIKE" and I did not day "IT IS ALL OLD".  I did not accuse them of fraud. I did not say that they are ripping people off.  I complained that a consistent amount of seed I have gotten from them has proven to be worthless - and guessed a couple of reasons it could happen.  Wow - how sacrilegious of me I guess.  *I did NOT tell anyone to not order from Attitude.  I did NOT say they were fraudulent.*

The Kaliman seed I got from them was almost worthless.  Same with Tangerine Dream.  Same with some others.  I guess that when it happens people are supposed to stay quiet and not say a word?  No one should suggest ANY reasons for the failures or expect be insulted in return?  

Sorry if it offends some people here that I have gotten bad seed from Attitude.  I've gone through more than 50+ packets from them - but I should say nothing at all about - nor guess any reason for - the consistent failures!?!?!?  Whether you agree or not - I have gotten bad seed from them - and from Hemp Depot. It DOES happen, whether you accept it or not, and whether it offends you or not.

Geez - some folks on this board sure do selectively **** on you for having an opinion, or if you don't post in some made-up baby talk language that shows how "cool" you are.  Really grown to feel cliquish as heck.





			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Oh please.....
> 
> First you say Attitude sells old seeds, then backtrack.


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Yes - I have. It was unsuccessful.



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Have you ever tried just returning saying the product wasn't meeting up to your satisfaction? No grow talk, no germination questions, nothing but these aren't what I had hoped? You cannot talk growing or it's risking their business and likely getting you that cold shoulder feel!


----------



## ozzydiodude

It would be nice for "breeders" to put freshness date on packet of seeds but I bet the guys and girls filling the orders just dump the new batch of packets of seeds on top the old packets. So the newer seeds would be the first to go out then the older ones would probly be crushed when they finally got sent to some one


----------



## Roddy

Old_SSSC_Guy said:
			
		

> Huh?  Come on Roddy.  Is no complaint tolerated here at all!?  I said "Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods."  Sorry to have stated an opinion.  I said "ITS LIKE" and I did not day "IT IS ALL OLD".  I did not accuse them of fraud. I did not say that they are ripping people off.  I complained that a consistent amount of seed I have gotten from them has proven to be worthless - and guessed a couple of reasons it could happen.  Wow - how sacrilegious of me I guess.  *I did NOT tell anyone to not order from Attitude.  I did NOT say they were fraudulent.*
> 
> The Kaliman seed I got from them was almost worthless.  Same with Tangerine Dream.  Same with some others.  I guess that when it happens people are supposed to stay quiet and not say a word?  No one should suggest ANY reasons for the failures or expect be insulted in return?
> 
> Sorry if it offends some people here that I have gotten bad seed from Attitude.  I've gone through more than 50+ packets from them - but I should say nothing at all about - nor guess any reason for - the consistent failures!?!?!?  Whether you agree or not - I have gotten bad seed from them - and from Hemp Depot. It DOES happen, whether you accept it or not, and whether it offends you or not.
> 
> Geez - some folks on this board sure do selectively **** on you for having an opinion, or if you don't post in some made-up baby talk language that shows how "cool" you are.  Really grown to feel cliquish as heck.



Complaints, I can live with. Making statements which misleads others to think Attitude is dealing junk....

I accept there's bad seed out there, I told ya it has happened to me. What I don't like seeing is pointing a finger at the company the distributes instead of the breeder...the distributor can only deal with what they are given to distribute. Throwing insinuations that Attitude could be ripping you off really makes me question the message.

If, as has been pointed out, these bad seed were mostly newer stock, do you suppose it could be a breeder issue? How can you blame Attitude for this, again, they merely sell what they are given as stock. Obviously not old stock. Unless you truly believe into the claims they're switching seed etc. I've seen it said there were small seeds and such saying they were obviously bad at first glance....they surely came from the breeder to Attitude.

I really have to ask, also, if you feel so badly about Attitude and have had so many bad experiences, why order from them at all?

As for the "cliquish" comment, betting most would say otherwise...as far as I'm concerned at least!


----------



## Roddy

Saying to send in several orders and see if switching is going on suggests you suspect fraud and is suggesting others should, too.


----------



## Roddy

Old_SSSC_Guy said:
			
		

> Yes - I have. It was unsuccessful.



My one time I complained, they sent me a new pack of seeds...a different pack than I ordered because I told them I had no faith in GHS. They told me that I had broken their terms of service by talking germination, but as another person's thread suggests, told me they'd make it right...and did!

Might just have caught the right person on a good day, I suppose, but I was happy...and learned about their TOS!


----------



## Roddy

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> It would be nice for "breeders" to put freshness date on packet of seeds but I bet the guys and girls filling the orders just dump the new batch of packets of seeds on top the old packets. So the newer seeds would be the first to go out then the older ones would probly be crushed when they finally got sent to some one




Ya could be right, but if anything like the grocery stores, old stock goes to the front, new to the back. As you say, without date stamps, it's impossible to tell and you're at the mercy of the stock crew!


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

OK Roddy, how is that different from expecting a grocery store to have fresh produce; but if its nasty, molded or rotted, its the solely the fault of the farmer? 

Under your logic a new "breeder" wholesales to them sealed packets of unknown seed and its 100% OK for the Attitude to not check the stock, or even test it for germination rates. You leave way too much up to an assumption of experience and honesty from an unknown breeder or wholesaler and you absolve the retailer from any responsibility for quality control. 

Instead, why not tell me about the quality control systems used at Attitude? Tell me about their storage methods, how they test new stock, and how they ensure that some "breeder" has not just bred bag seed and put it in a fancy envelope. Or that some other "breeder" did not just buy a packet of Barney's and let the crop go to seed - then renamed it and sold it to growers as "Bubba Doobie KushSage" or something for a quick $10k. The bigger the seed market gets, the more growers need to demand quality control and vetting of breeders by a wholesaler; like it used to be in the "old days".

When I was with SSSC we DID test the seed bred by others. I myself regularly germed 5 and 10 sets of seed from the shipping inventory to ensure viablity. It was a 'matter of course' thing in basic quality control. If someone said they did not receive quality - we reshipped them a replacement immediately, no questions, no hassles, no requirement for the customer to double or quadruple their legal exposure by requiring the return of bad results.

I did not insinuate that Attitude was ripping people off - please read my orginal rant. *Where did I say "do not order from Attitude"? *I was venting over the ->consistent<- failure of some packets from them, and guessing out my butt as to the reason(s). What is the alternative Roddy? Never warning others about unsuccessful orders? There are so many newbies on this forum and often they see the seed banks as the panacea for growing. They order a pack and if it fails to germ - they blame themselves. 

I order only breeder packs from Attitude. I never suggested that they were opening those packs and messing with the seed, I did NOT say or suggest they falsified anything. But unless they have basic quality control and proper storage of stock - both are issues they remain silent on - then they might be more potentially to blame than the breeder. Have you EVER heard of how Attitude reviews or vets a new breeder's stock? They have gaggles of "breeders" that no one ever heard of - has there ever been any mention of exactly how Attitude checks new breeders? 

All the packs in the pic were from Attitude, I went through maybe 2-3 times that before I started saving the packs for fun. The failures I get have not stopped me from ordering from them, nor from recommending them to others. But it will not stop be from complaining when I get false returns, or when I get caught in their catch-22 return policy.



​ 




			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> I accept there's bad seed out there, I told ya it has happened to me. What I don't like seeing is pointing a finger at the company the distributes instead of the breeder...the distributor can only deal with what they are given to distribute. Throwing insinuations that Attitude could be ripping you off really makes me question the message.


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

But that is what you pay the grocery store and their wholesaler to do.  Basic quality control and stock rotation.

Glad to see that at least you might agree with my suggestion of 'born on' dates on breeder packets.  Geez, even my beer now comes with a "freshness date" and it does not cost $5 to $15 a bottle!




			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Ya could be right, but if anything like the grocery stores, old stock goes to the front, new to the back. As you say, without date stamps, it's impossible to tell and you're at the mercy of the stock crew!


----------



## Roddy

A "born on" date would be the responsibility of the breeder, though....not the distributor. imho


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Sigh...  No, it was suggesting that breeders can find a value in verifiying their product is retailed correctly.  Its done throughout the retail sales chain with hundreds of product lines - lines which sell for MUCH less value and MUCH lower markup range.





			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Saying to send in several orders and see if switching is going on suggests you suspect fraud and is suggesting others should, too.


----------



## Roddy

*Under your logic a new "breeder" wholesales to them sealed packets of unknown seed and its 100% OK for the Attitude to not check the stock, or even test it for germination rates. You leave way too much up to an assumption of experience and honesty from an unknown breeder or wholesaler and you absolve the retailer from any responsibility for quality control.*

I'm sure we both understand we're talking a seed that can be viable for years, not a head of cabbage or lettuce, or a gallon of milk that needs be watched for expiration on a daily basis.

*Instead, why not tell me about the quality control systems used at Attitude? Tell me about their storage methods, how they test new stock, and how they ensure that some "breeder" has not just bred bag seed and put it in a fancy envelope. Or that some other "breeder" did not just buy a packet of Barney's and let the crop go to seed - then renamed it and sold it to growers as "Bubba Doobie KushSage" or something for a quick $10k. The bigger the seed market gets, the more growers need to demand quality control and vetting of breeders by a wholesaler; like it used to be in the "old days".*

Truly, I don't know nor pretend to know their QC and whatnot, I don't work there nor do I in any way represent them. But, for breeders to trust the distributor with their product, I am guessing one would either need to have a pretty good reputation OR the breeder is not concerned with who puts them out, just in the money.

*I did not insinuate that Attitude was ripping people off - please read my orginal rant. Where did I say "do not order from Attitude"? I was venting over the ->consistent<- failure of some packets from them, and guessing out my butt as to the reason(s). What is the alternative Roddy? Never warning others about unsuccessful orders? There are so many newbies on this forum and often they see the seed banks as the panacea for growing. They order a pack and if it fails to germ - they blame themselves. *

_Its like the seed is VERY old and inviable; or something is going wrong with their transport/shipping methods. _

_How are we to know that people like Attitude are not shipping 1-2 yr old seed?_

_If you are a breeder selling through Attitude I'd have to recommend you place a couple of covert orders to see and verify that Attitude is shipping what you sold them at wholesale._

*When I was with SSSC we DID test the seed bred by others. I myself regularly germed 5 and 10 sets of seed from the shipping inventory to ensure viablity. It was a 'matter of course' thing in basic quality control. If someone said they did not receive quality - we reshipped them a replacement immediately, no questions, no hassles, no requirement for the customer to double or quadruple their legal exposure by requiring the return of bad results.*

Sounds like sssc was a small company with plenty of time on their hands if you can germ out seeds before putting them on the shelves. I don't think it's gonna be the same with Attitude. just making an assumption based on the info presented. However, why should Attitude test a new shipment of seed from a breeder? Are you saying Target should be checking every TV coming in to assure it works? Or are you saying Attitude shouldn't trust the breeders?


----------



## Roddy

*experience and honesty from an unknown breeder or wholesaler and you absolve the retailer from any responsibility for quality control. *

Truly, I don't get your point here. Are you really saying that the two businesses should be watching each other for possible theft, deception and bad product?? If so, sounds like a partnership I wouldn't want to start or be a part of if I were EITHER side. In a business, companies do business with people they TRUST. I have never gone to a manufacturer of lawn mowers I even ASSUMED was worthless or unreliable, I do my homework, check out companies and decide which can be trusted, which will do the job I need done and THEN I decide who I will buy!

In the end, if I buy a Jacobson's mower, I buy it from a dealer, but I know my warranty is through the manufacturer.


----------



## ozzydiodude

Roddy if you don't Know who the SSSC was, you really need to research before saying anything..


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Sorry Roddy, and I honestly mean no insult, but I fear you don't understand how larger retailers (and small ones) do inventory and quality control checking. No, Target does not test each and every TV they sell - instead they do a complete eval process on every single model before they put them on the shelves. Then after they receive 1000 units (a number FMA) shipped they DO pull random units and test them. Take a look at any large retailer from Costco to Walmart and you will find a massive quality control department which does nothing but pre-test all product lines and also pull QC samples which were shipped to the stores. In addition, almost every large wholesaler does retailer checking on product they sold them. They check the displays, snoop in the storage rooms to check how things are stacked, all sorts of secondary QC checking - its done as a matter of course. I worked in the hydro shop industry for years and years and we very regularly evaluated and tested the gear we sold. Again, its a matter of course; and a priority in proportion to the profit level of the product line.

I am not saying that Attitude is Walmart. But do you honestly think that they - especially at their level of volume and profit - are incapable of doing basic quality control? At that profit level you can afford gold-lined casks for storage (laughing). I'd refer to GHS, but don't think you'd care for their QC systems much; and use them as an example of how even when you "do it right" you can have some really impressive failures.

And I think that breeders ->do<- perform retail checking, just like a larger grower will check on the retail side of a dispensary they sell to. Methinks that my heros like NorCal Hal have taken a moment to ensure their product is stored and handled properly at retail, you know? Nothing like seeing the blood, sweat and tears of a beautiful large crop of your finest product turn to crispy flakey shake at the bottom of large glass jars because the retailer is storing and treating your bud like hard candy.

I understand your points buddy, but fear you are being defensive without cause. Today is Sunday - my Cheese smoking day. What's your choice for Sunday lazy smokeables? As the day goes on I am sure my arguments will grow sillier... heh...







			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Sounds like sssc was a small company with plenty of time on their hands if you can germ out seeds before putting them on the shelves. I don't think it's gonna be the same with Attitude. just making an assumption based on the info presented. However, why should Attitude test a new shipment of seed from a breeder? Are you saying Target should be checking every TV coming in to assure it works? Or are you saying Attitude shouldn't trust the breeders?


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Thank you OzzyTheDude... At the time there was us and Nevil's "The Seed Bank".  If you knew much about TSB, you knew that quality control was not their strong suit - and because of it we did very well.

Gives me warm fuzzies to know that we are still remembered... sniff... sniff...  Makes me wanna get out my Jimmy Hendrix records and blow my nose.







			
				ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> Roddy if you don't Know who the SSSC was, you really need to research before saying anything..


----------



## BackWoodsDrifter

Yual need to pass around the marshmellows

BWD


----------



## Roddy

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> Roddy if you don't Know who the SSSC was, you really need to research before saying anything..



I know who sssc is, no worries there! Or should say I know he was in the biz...


----------



## Roddy

*Sorry Roddy, and I honestly mean no insult, but I fear you don't understand how larger retailers (and small ones) do inventory and quality control checking. No, Target does not test each and every TV they sell - instead they do a complete eval process on every single model before they put them on the shelves. Then after they receive 1000 units (a number FMA) shipped they DO pull random units and test them. Take a look at any large retailer from Costco to Walmart and you will find a massive quality control department which does nothing but pre-test all product lines and also pull QC samples which were shipped to the stores. In addition, almost every large wholesaler does retailer checking on product they sold them. They check the displays, snoop in the storage rooms to check how things are stacked, all sorts of secondary QC checking - its done as a matter of course. I worked in the hydro shop industry for years and years and we very regularly evaluated and tested the gear we sold. Again, its a matter of course; and a priority in proportion to the profit level of the product line.*

Right, and as you would know, there are still many bad products on the shelves being sold daily. Is it the fault of Wal-Mart?

I agree that Attitude does QC, don't think I'm suggesting otherwise, but like Wally world, the manufacturers (breeders) DO get some bad products through their extensive QC control.


----------



## Roddy

*And I think that breeders ->do<- perform retail checking, just like a larger grower will check on the retail side of a dispensary they sell to. Methinks that my heros like NorCal Hal have taken a moment to ensure their product is stored and handled properly at retail, you know? Nothing like seeing the blood, sweat and tears of a beautiful large crop of your finest product turn to crispy flakey shake at the bottom of large glass jars because the retailer is storing and treating your bud like hard candy.*

Right, I know it's what's done in the golf business as we have reps visit us from time to time. No trickery orders or the like, just meet with us and make sure all is well. Good business practice!

But...if Hal's buds turn all shaky flake and "bottom of the bag" quality, he's either growing something that sells slow or is overstocking....knowing Hal, the man is growing too darned much :rofl: :rofl:

I truly don't get it...this was meant as a compliment and of course was taken otherwise. :confused2: My point to that comment (regarding Hal) was that the man obviously produces good smoke that will fly off the shelf, so it can't be a problem of "something that sells slow"....I guess someone mistook it as a bit of jealousy.


----------



## Roddy

*I understand your points buddy, but fear you are being defensive without cause. Today is Sunday - my Cheese smoking day. What's your choice for Sunday lazy smokeables? As the day goes on I am sure my arguments will grow sillier... heh...*

Just protective of a place I'm happy to do business with and am happy to refer others to!

Absolutely, at no time did I suspect feelings were being hurt, and always enjoy a good debate, no worries and hope no hard feelings on your end, my friend! I'm loading some nicely cured OG as I type!!  

:48:


----------



## Roddy

BackWoodsDrifter said:
			
		

> Yual need to pass around the marshmellows
> 
> BWD




LOL, BWD....would rather burn a few and munch on some bbq, here :48: come join in!


----------



## BackWoodsDrifter

Be lovin to join the bbq friend aim to be stayin away the banter back and furth. Yual both highly respected folk here and looked up to by most, and just seem silly how yual got yurselves dug in on such a silly issue is all be sayin. Its just what i sees outside lookin in and maybe none me business actually it aint me business but will say hate seein friend folk take such hard stand over simple facts. Yual both have good valid knowledge and stance but is it realy worth the elevated? Be one those things were yual wake up and found it might have been better to agree to disagree and still shake to one anothers hand and still  be friend then lossin friend or friends for somethin as small. I hope yual accept my opology for speakin mind but I value the friends I found in ya both. Grab some shine puff the pipe and bring on this here bbq yual speak of.

BWD


----------



## Roddy

Actually, BWD, it's a matter of my word. If I'm gonna stand behind a business, refer someone to that place...well, I feel I put MY reputation at risk to some degree and I will defend that stance. Same as if you badmouthed my Jeep...

Might be some misguided feeling I have, but that's just me, my friend!


----------



## BackWoodsDrifter

Roddy said:
			
		

> Actually, BWD, it's a matter of my word. If I'm gonna stand behind a business, refer someone to that place...well, I feel I put MY reputation at risk to some degree and I will defend that stance. Same as if you badmouthed my Jeep...
> 
> Might be some misguided feeling I have, but that's just me, my friend!


 

I would to never badmouth yur jeep heck I wouldnt even goodmouth it! I like women be bout the only thing i be puttin mouth to. But thinks i understand yur point then gain I be seein alot of know hows and knowledge comin from both yas but dont understand why it jsut keeps on keepin on is all I cant understand. Yual good folks here and been here bout a couple moons now and this here be bout the most agressive threat i found yet. Just aim to make yual see better friends then not is all be sayin by yur fire hopin I be still welcome but I aint puttin my mouth on yur jeep friend.

BWD


----------



## pcduck

I just have a couple of questions.

If people like Old SSSC Guy does not post their experiences and opinion about a product or seller. When you do your homework how do you decide who can be trusted? Just by the statements the company makes?
 I Never heard of a company saying they make or sell crap.:confused2:




			
				roddy said:
			
		

> I do my homework, check out companies and decide which can be trusted, which will do the job I need done and THEN I decide who I will buy



2nd Question: But nobody else is?



			
				roddy said:
			
		

> If I'm gonna stand behind a business, refer someone to that place...well, I feel I put MY reputation at risk to some degree and I will defend that stance.




Even Jeep has made some crappy Jeeps.Just my $0.02


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

No Bro, I am/was not 'the' SSSC.  I was (one of?) their shippers here in the states.  The "Super Sativa Seed Club" was a mail order seed service in the years before the net, back in the disco 80's.  I bred some Williams Wonder and shipped more seed than Octomom has evictions.  The company itself was based in the Netherlands and I was but a cog in the wheel is all.  But even I did QC because people were paying big bucks and deserved the regard is all.

Was not meaning to claim some type of ancient fame, only illustrating the point that we did seed QC 30 years ago and think its a crime for any seed retailer (or wholesaler) not to test their stock on a regular basis; or to trust a new 'breeder' to have any clue at all over what they are doing.  That said, there are some AMAZING new breeders out there who put their heart and soul into their breed.  Good QC simply proves they are as right and honorable as you thought them to be.




			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> I know who sssc is, no worries there! Or should say I know he was in the biz...


----------



## BackWoodsDrifter

I be thinkin ifin I was a seed bank and Im not I would run business like this. Im a seed distributor and here come some pilgrem in a canoe with a pouch full of magic beans. he says to me I have these here magic beans and i aim to sell them. We I be sayin how about yual trust me to take yur magic beans and test them through my business as a distributor. I be takin this here pouch and takin a percentage of that pouch and advertisin them as a new flavour at a good introductory price and sell some out as a test market and be gettin feed back from the consumer about these new magic beans. if the feed back comes back as an high quality product then I be takin the remainder and uppin the price with some testimonials of sorts attached lone with them. Then i be findin the guy in the canoe and be sayin I like his product and makin deal for more. If they are no good then we know not to trade the family cow gain for product not worthy. Be bout how to do it right I reckon called buildin yur business partnerships with partnerships yual can trust and depend on. I dont know maybe I need to go pipe a bit a re think things. In the mean time hope yual find yur kinships again as I dont want to feed into anymore debate bout stuff makin folk look silly. Stay warm and comfortable yur fires pilgrems.

BWD


----------



## Roddy

pcduck said:
			
		

> I just have a couple of questions.
> 
> If people like Old SSSC Guy does not post their experiences and opinion about a product or seller. When you do your homework how do you decide who can be trusted? Just by the statements the company makes?
> I Never heard of a company saying they make or sell crap.:confused2:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 2nd Question: But nobody else is?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Even Jeep has made some crappy Jeeps.Just my $0.02




I'm sure people can understand there's a difference between posting an experience and suggesting possible fraudulent actions. I'm sure you can also understand a reputation is made from years of work and good business, good product and good care for their customers. Customers feedback is a big part, HOWEVER, when feedback seems misplaced as in these situations (again, blaming the wholesaler instead of the breeder), one has to take the feedback with a grain of salt (or do your homework and realize where the blame actually goes). Testing of the product is also a good thing, if you cannot, then again, feedback from the public.

In this case, far far more good has ever been said of Attitude than bad, personal experience has proven good and their reputation has always been good as far as I've ever noticed. And, although some have spoken poorly of their CS, I have had a good experience and notice my experience seems to be the common course of action, given replies posted from them by others. I believe your point is people like sssc should make their reports (good or bad)...and I agree. I also think I would be doing a disservice to others here following along if I didn't ask these questions, post my experience and give the other side a voice. The people can do their own homework and make a conclusion from this, hope it's helpful!

I don't understand your second comment...nor the last comment, I don't think anyone has ever said ANY company has been 100% perfect?


----------



## Roddy

Old_SSSC_Guy said:
			
		

> No Bro, I am/was not 'the' SSSC.  I was (one of?) their shippers here in the states.  The "Super Sativa Seed Club" was a mail order seed service in the years before the net, back in the disco 80's.  I bred some Williams Wonder and shipped more seed than Octomom has evictions.  The company itself was based in the Netherlands and I was but a cog in the wheel is all.  But even I did QC because people were paying big bucks and deserved the regard is all.
> 
> Was not meaning to claim some type of ancient fame, only illustrating the point that we did seed QC 30 years ago and think its a crime for any seed retailer (or wholesaler) not to test their stock on a regular basis; or to trust a new 'breeder' to have any clue at all over what they are doing.  That said, there are some AMAZING new breeders out there who put their heart and soul into their breed.  Good QC simply proves they are as right and honorable as you thought them to be.




Yes, I saw your post awhile back about this, how I know of you.

Again, I do believe testing is done and I am sure it's normal all around. I also agree that even with testing, bad seed will get through. I think it falls much more on the end of the breeder than the wholesaler, my whole stance here.


----------



## Roddy

BackWoodsDrifter said:
			
		

> I be thinkin ifin I was a seed bank and Im not I would run business like this. Im a seed distributor and here come some pilgrem in a canoe with a pouch full of magic beans. he says to me I have these here magic beans and i aim to sell them. We I be sayin how about yual trust me to take yur magic beans and test them through my business as a distributor. I be takin this here pouch and takin a percentage of that pouch and advertisin them as a new flavour at a good introductory price and sell some out as a test market and be gettin feed back from the consumer about these new magic beans. if the feed back comes back as an high quality product then I be takin the remainder and uppin the price with some testimonials of sorts attached lone with them. Then i be findin the guy in the canoe and be sayin I like his product and makin deal for more. If they are no good then we know not to trade the family cow gain for product not worthy. Be bout how to do it right I reckon called buildin yur business partnerships with partnerships yual can trust and depend on. I dont know maybe I need to go pipe a bit a re think things. In the mean time hope yual find yur kinships again as I dont want to feed into anymore debate bout stuff makin folk look silly. Stay warm and comfortable yur fires pilgrems.
> 
> BWD



Actually, if Rockstar's adventures are any indication of how the process of getting in with a wholesaler works, there's a LOT more involved. Testing, testing, more testing. Sending out and growing test batches among impartial growers. Schmoozing the wholesalers and on and on...and that's AFTER all the hard work of getting the breeding done. I didn't pay too close attention to all that was going on, but she was hopping around the globe and doing all kinds of crazy stuff...

All of this gains the breeder a reputation....good or bad.


----------



## BackWoodsDrifter

Nope dont know no Rockstars pilgrem then again I just piped me a snot load of pouch product and aint to be knowin much now  Glad yur my fireside friend.

BWD


----------



## JCChronic

So far I haven't read any problem solving just alot of "you can't say that!""Oh yes I can" so, I just skimmmed over the last 5 or more postings.  OSSSC guy, let's use the forum as it should be,  make a concise list of all the seeds in question, next to them list the dates purchased and ask all the members here that made similar purchases to give their experiences.
  Now you can justify anything you want to say OR look for the problem between Attitudes postal service to your front door.  Maybe your postal hub has some kind of radiation source or your mailman is like your friendly neighborhood Radioactive man on his time off.
   I honestly don't know what could kill a seed aside from the obvious but, with 25+ years experience you might.


----------



## BackWoodsDrifter

Just when yual thought the fire goin to burn out someone goes and throws another log to the fire. Its like wackin yur own head with a hatchet yual can only wack it so hard before yur goin to cause damage. Oh well guess it be human nature to poke at dead things with a stick isent it.

BWD


----------



## JCChronic

Not at all BWD I'm bringing out the marshmallows to give this fire purpose.  Read what I said again.  I believe the problem is real and has an explanation other than party A trying to screw over party B.


----------



## 7greeneyes

In the IT game there's only 3 possible sources for error... A: Hardware B: Software or C: (and most likely) a Wetware logic confliction. Check your wetware make sure it's running without error, reboot and try again...

:rofl:


----------



## ozzydiodude

But I'm still in love with his Avatar and he know it too


----------



## Time4Plan-B

Hey SSC as you may be aware ive grown out over 120 of rocksters seeds and every single one germed and grew only 16 x died but i did put them under a 600w hps by mistake.
Id give Attitude or Kaliman a call im sure they will sort you out.
T4


----------



## 7greeneyes

Time4Plan-B said:
			
		

> Hey SSC as you may be aware ive grown out over 120 of rocksters seeds and every single one germed and grew only 16 x died but i did put them under a 600w hps by mistake.
> Id give Attitude or Kaliman a call im sure they will sort you out.
> T4


 
:yeahthat::goodposting: 100% agree, bud


----------



## Roddy

multifarious said:
			
		

> Rockster is a Dude
> 
> 
> :confused2:



LOL, musta been the avatar that threw me.


----------



## tattoo697

I have 3 strains going from them now Northern lights, cronic fruity, and a Afgani. out of the 7 plants I let go 5 turned Hermi.... could just be bad luck.

I had read a lot of reviews before ordering mostly strong positive...


----------



## sMACkaddict

just came across this...

hXXp://www.420magazine.com/forums/plant-bud-photos/76234-super-sativa-seed-club-sssc-catalogues-1980s-rare-archival-images.html

awesome...

enjoy
sMACk


----------



## AluminumMonster

This thread is a joke. For starters, why hasn't Rockster popped in here once? You would think he would try to make this right... SSSC has been growing for as long as I've been alive and to doubt his skills is ignorant. And to think the tude does qc...... sigh.. no way. They aren't allowed to germ anything, they aren't allowed to discuss germing beans... what makes you think they're actually testing these beans?  They just go off what the breeder tells them, nothing more. I don't understand this loyalty to the tude&#8230; they are over priced and their storage methods are questionable. If they are selling a product that is not intended for germination why would they store it properly?

@T4PB you may have popped over 125 of his beans but I've been around the interweb a bit&#8230; Ive seen many a GJ with poor germ rates and lotsa hermies.  As a matter of fact, kaliman seeds was pulled from cannazon because of questionable issues with his genetics. Ppl theres more than one canna site to get info from ya just gotta look a little deeper.


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

Thanks for the support Aluminum.  I still order from Attitude, mainly for their breeder selection and because I'm just a silly fool for freebies and being able to track the shipping.  I've consistently ordered and re-ordered a few strains from them that have never failed me - but have ordered others which never worked at all. 

I was just really surprised by the vehemence against my post and just did not want nor understand getting such negative drama for just ventilating a rant and offering an opinion.  Felt like it was like folks were saying 'You have no right to even question Attitude - you should feel privileged they will even sell to you'. 

It was like saying "I opened a bottle of Coke and it was flat" and people attacked me with "You obviously don't know how to open a bottle.  How dare you say that Coke is not 100% perfect!".


----------

