# Live without a net.........Back Breaking breeding



## subcool (Mar 2, 2010)

Well this won't be my best thread I pulled a back muscle doing this and I was barly able to finish so I stopped taking pics before I was done but OB should know I actually pulled the muscle talking a hit of his bubble I made for him to smoke when he visits today be warned.


So here is the delima of work.

This is my veg room 
5 Female plants and 1 space queen male are behind this door
that means lots of moving so I can work in this room thats ealed off from the bud area.
I place a bucket of clean water to place the male in I chop him down and dunk he goes. I have left one sprig for manual pollination
I sprinkle each top carefully
Then we move em to the back of lab on concrete for one more rinsing. Then all the pots have to be replaced so each 7 gallon was moved 3x each .

Ouch.


I also moved the 18 female Vortex into the breeding room I will shoot that tonight.


Don't try this at home unless you want your intire crop seeded I have been doing this awhile and I use water to prevent pollen spread.

I have a much more detailed report on the science behind it this was more of a thread on my crazy way of doing things.
I know two people that have tried doing it this way and they seeded there bud room completely.

Just something to look at

Sub


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## burnin123 (Mar 2, 2010)

at the end ya say moved back for one more rinseing. do you rinse the entire plant right after pollenate? I like the dunk bucket thanks


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## subcool (Mar 2, 2010)

I let the plants pollinate the day before as well so its two dustings and I kinda stay in the room for as long as I can stand it like 10 minutes before washing them after this second application.

I didn't learn this in a school It was trail and error so I am not sure if I have to wait at all I do not think so but I do to make sure.

Sub


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## the chef (Mar 2, 2010)

What peaks your intrest when choosing new strains to cross or fer that matter what promts you to choose which one's you cross with so many to choose from? Btw feel or felt your pain, get better buddy!


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## ozzydiodude (Mar 2, 2010)

How do you make your male selection? And from how many males? From how many plants on average, do you choose from, to figure out which females to pollenate?


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## monkeybusiness (Mar 2, 2010)

WOW, props to you Subcool! I can't tell you how much i appreciate the insight and details on stuff like this. I always wondered about the business and intricacy of breeding. Fascinating stuff indeed.
 Thanks for sharing!


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## subcool (Mar 2, 2010)

I do not use large numbers of males to choose from and I have taken quite a bit of heat over this but I will explain why and go into great detail on the criteria I use in a thread shortly.

I have a huge amount of things to teach here so we will get to all of it.

Here is kinda a teaser

From My Breeding notes

Thanks to those that passed this information to me over the years.
DJ, Shanti, 

 at time of germination are there any capitate trichomes on the cotyldon leaves
number and frequency of non-glandular trichomes..this can be a great indicator of future glandular production
vigor is not an issue. hybrid vigor can mask many traits good and bad. good even growth is what I look for
at time of sexing
1. the earliest males to show sex get tossed..no ifs and s or buts. dominant males are useless for drug (misuse of this rule has caused more hermie strains than the world deserves)cannabis. do not confuse early sex signs with early maturation the two are not linked. by this time I should be down to two or three prime candidates Recessive males are the key to improving drug strains. Shanti uses them, nevil did it and sensi continues to use the same techniques. Dominant males will induce ploidy shift after a number of generations causing many hermaphrodites

in the wild, the early males always win the breeding contest. without proper selection according to RC Clarke, these early males cause "acclimitization" of the variety. and a decrease in drug quality. this is the "dominant" state of cannabis. if it were otherwise, why would we need breeders? all you would have to do is let the plants do there own thing and they would become more potent over time, but they don't. the only way drug varieites ever get better is through human intervention in the natural order

the best wild pot cannot even come close to the best cultivated variety for drug production. that's the basis for using recessive plants for drug production

Hermaphrodism is a dominant trait in cannabis. you might be able to cover it up in an f1 through hybrid vigor, but subsequent generations will really tell you what the breeder was up to


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## subcool (Mar 2, 2010)

Somehow we get results like this



Sonic was nice enough to send me these pictures from the Uk 
Agent Orange from seed


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## subcool (Mar 2, 2010)

Jack The Ripper somewhere near London

We will deff get into this more and Ozzie you will see selections from pools of 20-40

Have a good evening

Sub


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## the chef (Mar 2, 2010)

is this in the dank book?


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## subcool (Mar 2, 2010)

No Chef Dank is a coffee table picture book of strains I have grown over the years and the story behind each strain.

My second Book Called The Laws(Lights,Air,Water,Soil) of Cannabis has not been published yet but most of my how to threads are the basis of the second book which is a how to.


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## burnin123 (Mar 2, 2010)

subcool said:
			
		

> I let the plants pollinate the day before as well so its two dustings and I kinda stay in the room for as long as I can stand it like 10 minutes before washing them after this second application.
> 
> I didn't learn this in a school It was trail and error so I am not sure if I have to wait at all I do not think so but I do to make sure.
> 
> Sub


 
Thanks sub.  yes I know all to well on trial/error.  how do you keep pollen that gets on you when your in there, and then leave.  this is been my issue. I dont enter bud room the day I enter my breed room.and shower after ..also..what do you meen "you can only stand it..10 min"?  thanks for all the great reads you have. Looking forward to whats ahead. Thanks again


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## legalize_freedom (Mar 3, 2010)

Sub I noticed that you had arrows pointing to the double serations in the leaves in one picture.  I know that this is a cinderella trait...but I'm wondering what you are refrencing with the arrows...is there something more to the double seration other than it is a trait of cindy 99?

Again...Thanks for the interesting post...and how long do we have to wait for the next book...or will there be no reason for us to buy it...lol...will we have already read it all here???  I'll buy it anyway...I'm a collector, and this time I'll get it from you, not Borders...so I can get it signed...lol


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## hugs4nuggs420 (Mar 3, 2010)

Sub man i'm always left amazed after reading your post and seriously whens that second book coming out?? Dank left me drooling on the floor when I was done so I know this next one's gunna be good and helpful.


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## the chef (Mar 3, 2010)

Ok put me down fer that one as well!


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## subcool (Mar 3, 2010)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Sub I noticed that you had arrows pointing to the double serations in the leaves in one picture.  I know that this is a cinderella trait...but I'm wondering what you are refrencing with the arrows...is there something more to the double seration other than it is a trait of cindy 99?
> 
> Again...Thanks for the interesting post...and how long do we have to wait for the next book...or will there be no reason for us to buy it...lol...will we have already read it all here???  I'll buy it anyway...I'm a collector, and this time I'll get it from you, not Borders...so I can get it signed...lol



The arrows are pointing to falling pollen not the leaf

I was told my Ed it needed more work.
I disagree 
I have a educated person cleaning up the english as we speak and will try again


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## subcool (Mar 3, 2010)

burnin123 said:
			
		

> Thanks sub.  yes I know all to well on trial/error.  how do you keep pollen that gets on you when your in there, and then leave.  this is been my issue. I dont enter bud room the day I enter my breed room.and shower after ..also..what do you meen "you can only stand it..10 min"?  thanks for all the great reads you have. Looking forward to whats ahead. Thanks again



I use a sprayer to form a water cloud over my head as I exit the building

My Breeding room is Tiny and I have to stay stooped over as well as the pollen breathing I want out 

Sub


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## leafminer (Mar 5, 2010)

> in the wild, the early males always win the breeding contest. without proper selection according to RC Clarke, these early males cause "acclimitization" of the variety. and a decrease in drug quality. this is the "dominant" state of cannabis.



This makes total sense to me. Having seen the feral sativas that grow in the mountains of Guerrero state, all covered in catkins. Nothing like what we grow. I've taken that stuff and bred it to indica and got some good smoke out of it, but I don't grow it now because the commercial strains are already where I want to be.


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## JBonez (Mar 6, 2010)

yo suby, puffin down on some of your smoke as we speak, wish i could go back to growing but working at the hydro store and growing dont go hand in hand.


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## loolagigi (Mar 15, 2010)

jb, whatcha puffin on dude?


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