# Organic dirt and chemical ferts



## Gooeydelta9 (Feb 14, 2010)

I'm currently using foxfarm ocean forest combined with light warrior and their other organic soil(red bag) all 3 ingredients combined with lots of perlite. My question is if I use chem ferts will that kill all the live bacteria and microbes in the soil. I just have alot of left over ferts from last grow.


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## BioDynamic (Feb 14, 2010)

Gooeydelta9 said:
			
		

> I'm currently using foxfarm ocean forest combined with light warrior and their other organic soil(red bag) all 3 ingredients combined with lots of perlite. My question is if I use chem ferts will that kill all the live bacteria and microbes in the soil. I just have alot of left over ferts from last grow.




Chemical fertz have quite the effect on microbial activity. They can easily kill the microorganisms in the soil. It is one of the advantages of organic fertilizers that they boost microbial activity in the soil. These microbes in return help in degenerating the complex compounds present in the organic fertilizers.  Organic compounds and soil organisms have a symbiotic relationship. Just like plants and beneficial bacteria/fungi.


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## umbra (Feb 14, 2010)

Gooeydelta9 said:
			
		

> I'm currently using foxfarm ocean forest combined with light warrior and their other organic soil(red bag) all 3 ingredients combined with lots of perlite. My question is if I use chem ferts will that kill all the live bacteria and microbes in the soil. I just have alot of left over ferts from last grow.



BD is correct that chem nutes do not support many microbes, but it should not kill them all.


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## Droopy Dog (Feb 14, 2010)

umbra said:
			
		

> BD is correct that chem nutes do not support many microbes, but it should not kill them all.



Umbra is quite right.

Doing organic with slow release additives (meals and such), with chemical 'tweaks' as needed isn't going to hurt much of anything.

Or, did you mean organic soil and nothing but chem ferts?

DD


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 14, 2010)

I've been dealing with these thoughts for awhile now, and one of the reasons that I'm happy I found MP.  I'm a little upset with Fox Farm, because I find their feeding schedule misleading...or at least not optimum.  They sell you a rich soil like FFOF, and then have you inhibit the micro life with the chemical nutes, or by adjusting pH with chemical adjusters.  It's pretty pointless if you ask me.  Also the reason that I plan on using 100% organic nutes from now on.  I will use up what I have of the FF line, but then I will not be using it anymore, other than maybe the Big Bloom which is the only organic nute they offer.  I however will probably not even use that if I can make my own tea for cheaper.  It is misleading IMO.  However if you are to use the FFOF and just let the soil feed the plant it is good for around 4 weeks before you have to add nutes, so your plants will at least veg naturally, before you have to add nutes.

Thanks to the guys here for opening my eyes up to this...I knew it but was fooled by the FF schedule and fast talking hydro store salesmen.  I even asked the clerk about isn't it self defeating to add chems to an organic soil, and he says .......nah it won't hurt anything....lol...a sucker born every minute!

I will say that you can grow some good herb with the FF schedule.......but if you think for a minute that it's organic your wrong.  If you want to use the FF nute line up there is no reason to use high quality soil, you may as well use a soiless mix IMO.


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## Mutt (Feb 14, 2010)

hey LL Grow big is semi organic. There line does not destroy microlife 
but I went down to using only big bloom as a micro booster. but I refer my soil mix with lots of dry ferts and just use big bloom to help boost up the micro life in the soil.
PS I never found much use for there feeding schedule. It's not optimum for MJ growing IME.


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## BioDynamic (Feb 14, 2010)

umbra said:
			
		

> BD is correct that chem nutes do not support many microbes, but it should not kill them all.




That is also true. 

But, without support they will not thrive or multiply, but those that do still survive, there life and culture depends on the concentration, and amount of times the chemical fertilizers are applied. That, and the brand/make of the chemical fertz. 
I am sure there are some chemicals out there that are more gentle on the organisms, and won't do all the damage, or lack of organic support as other chemical fertilizers do.


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## umbra (Feb 14, 2010)

One of the worst things you can do is flush your plants. If soil is just a dead medium, then using chem nutes and flushing make sense. If its alive and healthy, why would you want to kill everything? Plants dont have the ability to uptake organic nutes directly.


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## Mutt (Feb 14, 2010)

I think Umbras sig says it all :aok:


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## BBFan (Feb 15, 2010)

umbra said:
			
		

> One of the worst things you can do is flush your plants. If soil is just a dead medium, then using chem nutes and flushing make sense. If its alive and healthy, why would you want to kill everything? *Plants dont have the ability to uptake organic nutes directly*.


 
Hey Umbra!

Are you saying that without an active soil, plants won't get any benefit from using organic nutes?

Thanks.


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## umbra (Feb 15, 2010)

I'm actually quoting(not verbatum) micro biologists. But yes that is correct.


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## Mutt (Feb 15, 2010)

another note i picked up from "-REv" aka Rolanterroy for organic growing


> (2) Your water MUST BE chlorine and chloramine free; you CANNOT bubble or boil out Chloramine as far as I know, and I had a lab near me where I tested this a lot. All you need is a cool dual carbon filter, or a Reverse Osmosis filter to deal with the chloramine issue. 100$ to your doorstep from a cool online source.


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## BioDynamic (Feb 15, 2010)

umbra said:
			
		

> One of the worst things you can do is flush your plants. If soil is just a dead medium, then using chem nutes and flushing make sense. If its alive and healthy, why would you want to kill everything? Plants dont have the ability to uptake organic nutes directly.




Are you referring to the removal of all the Micro's, by flushing?


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## BioDynamic (Feb 15, 2010)

Mutt said:
			
		

> another note i picked up from "-REv" aka Rolanterroy for organic growing





Where would the plant acquire chloride from, if not from water source?


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## umbra (Feb 15, 2010)

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Are you referring to the removal of all the Micro's, by flushing?[/quote
> 
> Yes that is what I meant. I'm not saying that every single microbe will be gone, but they numbers and their food will be greatly reduced to the point that they are not longer beneficial.


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## BioDynamic (Feb 15, 2010)

umbra said:
			
		

> BioDynamic said:
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> 
> 
> ...


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## umbra (Feb 15, 2010)

Absolutely


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## Alistair (Feb 15, 2010)

This thread interests me, as I also use FFOF soil.  I really should go organic, but if done properly, the FF line of nutes does a good job.  

Is there a line of organic fertilizers that contains all the macro, secondary, and micro nutrients?


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## BBFan (Feb 15, 2010)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey Umbra!
> 
> Are you saying that without an active soil, plants won't get any benefit from using organic nutes?
> 
> Thanks.


 


			
				Umbra said:
			
		

> I'm actually quoting(not verbatum) micro biologists. But yes that is correct.


 
But chemically based nutrients will feed the plant without a biologically active soil?


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## umbra (Feb 15, 2010)

BBFan said:
			
		

> But chemically based nutrients will feed the plant without a biologically active soil?



correct


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## Gooeydelta9 (Feb 15, 2010)

So why would one use Big bloom organic food from foxfarm when mixing it in with the other chemical nutes as stated in their feeding schedule?


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 15, 2010)

AY, check out General Organics, or Earth Juice, Roots makes a good one to from the looks of 2Dogs grows, those are all organic.  Also Humboldt Nutes has an organic system, but it's pretty pricey if you want to use the full line.  Also A&N is another pricey one

As far as trace minerals, check out the Azomite, this can be added to the soil as an amendment...google it...it's pretty cheap.  I have yet to use it, but Bio here had mentioned it in another thread, and I looked into it, and I'm going to try it.  Also BBFan filled me in that it is one of the ingredients in Subcools, super soil.


Gooey my point exactly....why do they sell us such a rich soil and then have us pour chemical ferts into it...I know, it is misleading to me, and like all business's they do it to make money.  I will not be using there nute line once I'm finished with my stock.

Not saying you can't grow great weed with the FF lineup, either, I have used it succsefuly...it's just not organic, and you may as well save your money on the soil if your going to use their nute line IMO....you may as well use coco, or other soiless medium.


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## BioDynamic (Feb 15, 2010)

AZomite *drools*


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## umbra (Feb 15, 2010)

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> AZomite *drools*



cheapest source I can find is Ebay.


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## Mutt (Feb 15, 2010)

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Where would the plant acquire chloride from, if not from water source?


It was for people just geting into this style of growing and hittin there city tap water to mix there teas and such up with. Not sure what your question is. Its a note saying that just bubling off your city  tap water isn't enough that it needs to be filtered out. Myself I use well water. Don't pay much attention to the PH as my medium works it out for me. chlorine and chloramine are total nono's in an organic grow.


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