# Serious Help Needed (any help appreciated)



## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Jan 31, 2009)

im growing my five plants which are 2 WEEKS OLD in my closet and ive been putting them by my window from 7 am till dark which is 6 pm and from then i put them in my closet and i use a 23 watt CFl that says it replaces 100 watt and another Cfl thats only 15 but not replaces so im sure its ok. theyve been growing  but not as big as i thought theyd be but maybe everyone that ive seen used clones(which i didnt).  I keep them about 4 or 5 inches from the light and have a regular fan running on med. I used miracle grow and also the plant food liquid mixed with water.
1 plant died yesterday as it got weak but the rest seem fine and most of them have pretty strong stems. I water them about 3 times in 24 hours but i read it wasnt good to water them that much but the soil is dry even deep down into it so im scared they will die.One plants stem is a little purple colored also.....
they are about 1 inch and a half and 2 of them are about half that sized.
(ANy help would be appreciated)Im aware i mite have made a lot of mistakes so plz no criticizing  only Help 
Rite On and have a good Smoke Out!


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## OldPainless (Jan 31, 2009)

My friend your plants need more light. What is your budget, at the moment.


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## pcduck (Jan 31, 2009)

:ciao::welcome: To the only Place....Get the light about 1" away, do not water till the soil is a least 1" to 2" dry below the surface. Good luck


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## blancolighter (Jan 31, 2009)

You definately need a light upgrade, they have some high watt CDLs you can screw into your normal light sockets, growing good .weed isn't going to be an energy efficient affair .  Also you'll want to invest in a way to measure your PH, as if you have problems like this in the future, making sure your ph is in the right range (6.3-6.7 is ideal for soil) will be the first step in problem solving your grow. Having a PH too high or too low can make the plant unable to absorb some nutrients, and therefore on the path to death or sickly buds. 

I bet what has kept them small is a combination of everything thats been stated by you and everyone else so far; the lighting, you mentioned you figured out you were overwatering, and if your PH is of, that could be a big part. You might also want to look for containers that will give your root more room to grow downward, but thats not too big a worry now. Welcome to the site man, I'm sure you'll have your girls nice and healthy in no time if ya stick around!


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## BuddyLuv (Jan 31, 2009)

I am quessing your pH is way out of whack.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 31, 2009)

Do not give any plant food at all when they are that small.  Also, Miracle Grow has nutrients in it, so every time you water, you are releasing nutrients--which is also bad then they are that small.

The equivalent wattage doesn't count when we are talking about lighting for plants.  What you have now should work for another week or 10 days, but after that you will need more/better lighting.  You should also have a small oscillating fan to help strengthen the stems and provide fresh CO2 for the plants.

Are there any drainage holes in your containers?


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## BuddyLuv (Jan 31, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Do not give any plant food at all when they are that small.


 
I know most people jere will tell you no food but I give mine 200 ppm the second the root, and same for my clones. I am not sure though with MG soil because who knows what nutes are in it already.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Jan 31, 2009)

OldPainless said:
			
		

> My friend your plants need more light. What is your budget, at the moment.


 


not that much probably 60 bucks....


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Jan 31, 2009)

BuddyLuv said:
			
		

> I know most people jere will tell you no food but I give mine 200 ppm the second the root, and same for my clones. I am not sure though with MG soil because who knows what nutes are in it already.


 
i found this online it says all da nutrients dat da soil has...........
This Product is Formulator from 55-65% Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss, Composted Softwood Bark, Perlite, a Wetting Agent and Fertilizer. Net Weight 3.2lb (1.45kg). Miracle-Grow Enriched Potting Mix, 0.21 - 0.07 -0.14. Guaranteed Analysis, Total Nitrogen (N) -0.21%, 0.12% Ammoniacal Nitrogen, 0.09% Nitrate Nitrogen, Available Phosphate 0.07%, Soluble Potash 0.14%. Derived from: Ammonium Nitrate, Ammonium Phosphate, Calcium Phosphate, and Potassium Sulfate. A Portion of the Nitrogen, Phosphate and Potash has been Coated to Provide 0.15% Slow Release Nitrogen, 0.03% Slow Release Phosphate and 0.08% Slow Release Potash.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Jan 31, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Do not give any plant food at all when they are that small. Also, Miracle Grow has nutrients in it, so every time you water, you are releasing nutrients--which is also bad then they are that small.
> 
> The equivalent wattage doesn't count when we are talking about lighting for plants. What you have now should work for another week or 10 days, but after that you will need more/better lighting. You should also have a small oscillating fan to help strengthen the stems and provide fresh CO2 for the plants.
> 
> Are there any drainage holes in your containers?


 


When should i start giving it the plant food??
and i didnt know that the equivalent does not work , what wattage should it be ?? and im aware im going to need better lighting after a while but are u sure this will work fine till then??
and yea i made a few little holes at the bottom but not too many just like 3.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Jan 31, 2009)

blancolighter said:
			
		

> You definately need a light upgrade, they have some high watt CDLs you can screw into your normal light sockets, growing good .weed isn't going to be an energy efficient affair . Also you'll want to invest in a way to measure your PH, as if you have problems like this in the future, making sure your ph is in the right range (6.3-6.7 is ideal for soil) will be the first step in problem solving your grow. Having a PH too high or too low can make the plant unable to absorb some nutrients, and therefore on the path to death or sickly buds.
> 
> I bet what has kept them small is a combination of everything thats been stated by you and everyone else so far; the lighting, you mentioned you figured out you were overwatering, and if your PH is of, that could be a big part. You might also want to look for containers that will give your root more room to grow downward, but thats not too big a worry now. Welcome to the site man, I'm sure you'll have your girls nice and healthy in no time if ya stick around!


 
ill be sure to get a PH reading thing this weekend.
and im sure u meant CFL ,wat wattage shud it be? and i was planning on moving them to a new pot when they got a little bigger
THanks


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Jan 31, 2009)

blancolighter said:
			
		

> You definately need a light upgrade, they have some high watt CDLs you can screw into your normal light sockets, growing good .weed isn't going to be an energy efficient affair . Also you'll want to invest in a way to measure your PH, as if you have problems like this in the future, making sure your ph is in the right range (6.3-6.7 is ideal for soil) will be the first step in problem solving your grow. Having a PH too high or too low can make the plant unable to absorb some nutrients, and therefore on the path to death or sickly buds.
> 
> I bet what has kept them small is a combination of everything thats been stated by you and everyone else so far; the lighting, you mentioned you figured out you were overwatering, and if your PH is of, that could be a big part. You might also want to look for containers that will give your root more room to grow downward, but thats not too big a worry now. Welcome to the site man, I'm sure you'll have your girls nice and healthy in no time if ya stick around!


 

Also i have two more 15 Watt Cfls .would it just b better to buy a higher watt CFL or can i just add the extra two??


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## Alistair (Jan 31, 2009)

Be sure to purchase a digital pH meter.  If you can't afford a digital meter, then buy the pH drops; however, the pH drops might not be that accurate, especially if the water that you're feeding with is colored from the nutrients that you add.

Also, if you put them in front of the window for sunlight, make sure the window is open.  I say this, because I believe that the window pane will greatly reduce the intensity of the sun.  Personally, I'd simply leave the plants in the closet.

Also, how about growing only one plant and concentrate as much light on the plant as possible?  Unless you get a lot more light, five plants won't do well.


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## BuddyLuv (Jan 31, 2009)

AJNAG EKOMS18 said:
			
		

> not that much probably 60 bucks....


 
Then go to ebay and get a used 250w or 400w HPS Grow light. I have seen a ton go for that.


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## unseenghost (Feb 1, 2009)

There are a few things about growing that you need to learn.  Here is a list of the things that you need to know.

*Lighting:*  Lighting is very important. The little plants need the right type of light to grow properly. Just what type of light to have depends slightly.  You need to have as much light as possible. The rule of thumb is 5000 lumens per square foot of plant canopy. Also the farther the light from the tops of the plants lessens the lumens.

*Color Temperature:* Color is also important to the development of the plants, but not vital to life. What I mean is that some people have a HSP light (High Pressure Sodium) which is around 2300K for the entire grow with success. Ideally you should have a 6500K (sunlight color) for the vegetative stage, and then 2300K for flowering stage.

*Air Temperature:*  If you are growing in a closed space then the temperature is going to rise. Some like the cfl lights (Compact Florescent Light) for a closet grow due to the low cost and low temps. Dont be fooled the cfl has a built-in ballast that creates heat too. You must evacuate this heat quickly. If it gets too hot the plants will die, or at the very least get heat stress. Ventilation is a must. How you go about this is up to you and your situation. Computer fans work well to remove hot air quickly and quietly. Also you must replace the hot air with cool air. In small spaces this can be as simple as a passive system. A passive system is a hole or space at the bottom of a door, and the vent fan at the top.  Also a small fan blowing on the plants is a must. It performs two operations. First it moves the hot air off the plants, and second it mimics the wind of outdoors to strengthen the stems.

*Planter Size:* A planter is the container that you have the plant in. You must have adequate drainage for the plant. The size of the container has a lot to do with the overall size of the finished plant, and the yield you will get. I believe that in a small closet grow a three gallon pot is the best size. You need one big enough that the plant doesnt get root bound. Just remember that the bigger the container the bigger the plant.

*Nutrients:* Nutrients are vital to the plants growth. However, most first time growers get soil that has slow release nutrients in it. This is a bad thing generally. Some might argue that it make little to no difference, but as a first time grower nutrient burn might look like nutrient deficiency causing more problems. The first set of leaves is the round cotyledon leaves and they provide the proper nutrients for the young plant for the first week or so. After that finding a good recipe is a bit tricky, but in time you will get it. Just go light on the nutrients it is always easier to add then to take away.

The way to figure out the lumen needs is fairly simple. Length times width times 5000, and that should get you real close to the ideal amount of lumens. Example my room is 3 foot by 3 foot.  45000 lumens are what I need. 

If there are any more questions just ask there are a lot of people here that can and would love to help. And if there is anything that others would like to add that I missed it would be helpful. 

The last thing that I would like to say is that the cost might be steep up front, but in the long run it is way cheaper than buying it off the streets.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Feb 1, 2009)

unseenghost said:
			
		

> There are a few things about growing that you need to learn. Here is a list of the things that you need to know.
> 
> *Lighting:* Lighting is very important. The little plants need the right type of light to grow properly. Just what type of light to have depends slightly. You need to have as much light as possible. The rule of thumb is 5000 lumens per square foot of plant canopy. Also the farther the light from the tops of the plants lessens the lumens.
> 
> [


 
*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]L[/FONT]*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]*IGHT LEVELS & LUMENS*[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lumens represents the amount of light emitted by a light source, such as a light bulb. Following are typical lumens levels for various light (CFL) bulbs. Realize that recommended light levels will vary based on the person and the task. When purchasing light bulbs, however, don't assume that more watts means more light, more lumens means more light.
[/FONT]*[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Lumens[/FONT]*​ *[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Efficiacy (lumens/watt)[/FONT]*
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]122[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]15 watt incandescent[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]125[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]3 watt CFL[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]41[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]185[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]15 watt krypton[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]210[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]25 watt incandescent[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]8[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]ambient lighting[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]400[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]9 watt CFL[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]44[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]460[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]40 watt incandescent[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]12[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]500[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]10 watt CFL[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]50[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]general room lighting[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]890[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]60 watt incandescent[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]15[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]900[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]15 CFL[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]60[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1,180[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]75 watt incandescent[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]16[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1,200[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]20 watt CFL[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]60[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1,380[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]23 watt CFL [/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]60[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]suitable for reading[/FONT] [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1,750[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]100 watt incandescent[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]17[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]1,750[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]29 watt CFL[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]60[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2,780[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]39 watt CFL[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]71[/FONT]
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]2,780[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]150 watt incandescent[/FONT][FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]19[/FONT]​[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Light on a surface (such as a tabletop) is referred to as illuminance, which is typically represented by footcandles (lumens per square foot, equal to 10.76 lux) or lux (lumens per square meter, equal to 0.092903 footcandles).[/FONT]
I found this online so by keepn my 23 watts and addn a 39 watt and another 23 watt cfl it wud be a lil ova 5000 Lumens which wud be good 4 mine since its only 1 by 1  but i was wondering how much in da electric bill am i lookn at??? i wud only have em on for 7 or 8 hours since i use the sunlight during the day


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## unseenghost (Feb 2, 2009)

Depending on the manufacturer of the cfl is what the lumen output is. Most 23 watt cfl are between 1200 lumens to 1600 lumens. Most 40 watt cfl are between 2300 to 2600 lumens. Most 85 watt cfl are around 4200 to 5000 lumens. The cost is around 25 US dollars. The temperature color ranges from 3000K to 6500K. 

The problem I see is that with the setup you propose is three bulbs. Now the real problem with cfl is that they have internal ballast. That gets warm real warm, and if you read the ventilation portion of my previous post heat is a big problem. With only one blub even though it is bigger in watts the heat will be lower causing you less problems. If I were to do a cfl grow I would go with the one 85 watt bulb. 

If you are having trouble finding one then go to 1000bulbs.com and see what they have. They will most likely have one, and will have a lot of information about the bulb as to the temperature color and lumens output. As for the electric bill take the watts of the bulb(s) times the hours and divide by 1000. That will give you the Kilowatt per hour. Then see what the electric company charges per Kilowatt. Then you will know how much it costs per day and per month (multiply per day by 30). Hope that helps some. Just remember to always look on the packaging of the bulb(s) you buy to know the lumens for that bulb since every bulb is different.


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## unseenghost (Feb 2, 2009)

One other thought and correct me if I am wrong. Do you have more than one plant per container? If you do that is going to be a very big problem in a couple weeks. Wait they are seedlings already so dividing them in to seperate containers is not easy to do I suggest that you do that ASAP. I would take the stems between my second and third fingers and flip the containers over like you were transplanting. Then rinse carfully the dirt off the roots remember not to touch them at all if you can help it. Then plant them in seperate containers. Or if someone else has thoughts please chime in. I do hope that I was seeing things tho.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Feb 2, 2009)

unseenghost said:
			
		

> One other thought and correct me if I am wrong. Do you have more than one plant per container? If you do that is going to be a very big problem in a couple weeks. Wait they are seedlings already so dividing them in to seperate containers is not easy to do I suggest that you do that ASAP. I would take the stems between my second and third fingers and flip the containers over like you were transplanting. Then rinse carfully the dirt off the roots remember not to touch them at all if you can help it. Then plant them in seperate containers. Or if someone else has thoughts please chime in. I do hope that I was seeing things tho.


 

yea i had 2 plants together in one but i moved it to a seperate 1 yesterday so its all good nd i got two 30 watt cfl's today that were 2000 lumens each and added them with my 1000 lumen cfl bulb but im worried about the heat so i most likely will try 2 get  the 85 watt one you were talking about. is there a good fan you would recommend ??


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Feb 2, 2009)

Also the top layer of ma soil seems to get dry really fast.is that a problem ?


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## unseenghost (Feb 2, 2009)

Well for starters what size are the containers? If there is only a few inches from the top to the bottom then that might be a problem. The heat is always going to dry out the top of the soil it just depends on how fast. For the ventilation a standard computer fan would most likely be fine. You said that your grow area is 1 foot by 1 foot right? How tall is it? Let&#8217;s say it is 7 foot tall then 1X1X7 is 14 cubic feet. I would suggest a fan that is rated at a minimum of 14 cfm (cubic feet per minute).
No one said this was easy I hope. It is great fun once you have everything going right. For me and most others it is a passion. Hence the name of the forums we are currently on. I take it this is your first grow, so things are going to be tough this first one. As time goes by you will get better by reading and experience. It is better than going out on the corner and getting whatever the guy has that maybe laced with something. I here formaldehyde is becoming more and more common to lace pot these days.


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## SKAGITMAGIC (Feb 2, 2009)

i've grown in dirt alot and with miracle grow JUST GIVE THEM WATER, the medium will sustain marijuana just fine with out adding XTRA nutes,look at my photos, the fat leaved indica are all in miracle grow i agree they need some more light too.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Feb 3, 2009)

unseenghost said:
			
		

> Well for starters what size are the containers? If there is only a few inches from the top to the bottom then that might be a problem. The heat is always going to dry out the top of the soil it just depends on how fast. For the ventilation a standard computer fan would most likely be fine. You said that your grow area is 1 foot by 1 foot right? How tall is it? Lets say it is 7 foot tall then 1X1X7 is 14 cubic feet. I would suggest a fan that is rated at a minimum of 14 cfm (cubic feet per minute).
> No one said this was easy I hope. It is great fun once you have everything going right. For me and most others it is a passion. Hence the name of the forums we are currently on. I take it this is your first grow, so things are going to be tough this first one. As time goes by you will get better by reading and experience. It is better than going out on the corner and getting whatever the guy has that maybe laced with something. I here formaldehyde is becoming more and more common to lace pot these days.


 

i sprayed some water on the dirt but im scared of overwatering it and i keep the plants 9 inches from the lights and the containers are 2 1/2 inches tall ...should i tranfer the plants even though they r small????
i hav a few seeds germinating rite now so im learnin wat n wat not to do 
THanks


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## unseenghost (Feb 3, 2009)

You either need to transplant or get rid of them. You said you have more seeds germinating now just make sure that you have deep containers. The rule of thumb for soil if I remember right is to water them if the top 2 inches of soil is dry. With only 2 and a half inches of soil they are always going to be dry.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Feb 3, 2009)

unseenghost said:
			
		

> You either need to transplant or get rid of them. You said you have more seeds germinating now just make sure that you have deep containers. The rule of thumb for soil if I remember right is to water them if the top 2 inches of soil is dry. With only 2 and a half inches of soil they are always going to be dry.


 
I transplanted them last nite to  plastic containers that i rinsed out pretty good with a tiny bit of bleach and alot of water.the containers are 5 1/2 tall and 4 inches in diameter.the biggest plant was starting 2 turn a lil yellow  so i was wondering wat i should do????  and also another one is wilting a little 2. but my third one is doing pretty good beside a little yellow on the petals but non on the leaf(By The WAy these problems happened before i moved them to the new containers)  will they be okay??
Thanks n have a good Smoke Out!


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## unseenghost (Feb 3, 2009)

Hope and good care might bring them back. Just keep reading the posts and keep trying.


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Feb 4, 2009)

my third one died after moving it.but my biggest one is showing much improvement and the other one is doing good as well,i put some ice in front of the fan to help keep it cool and the soil is moist below 2 inches so i gues that problem is solved. but im still wondering wat couldve caused the yellow on the leaves


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