# Green's Nutrient Deficiency Pictures



## ozzydiodude

The following was orginally posted at BreedBay by GreenSpirit

View attachment Nitrogen.jpg


View attachment Phosphorus.jpg


View attachment Potassium.jpg


View attachment Magnesium.jpg


View attachment Zinc-Manganese.jpg


View attachment Iron-Sulfur.jpg


View attachment ToxicSaltsBuildup.jpg


View attachment SaltBuildup-HormoneProblems.jpg




View attachment MagnesiumDef-2.gif


----------



## Time4Plan-B

Top find Ozzy absolutely the best chart ive come across in over 15 years of searching/growing.
T4


----------



## Hushpuppy

Yep Yep..I think this one should go in the stickies Bro...In fact I may download it and print it off to put up in my lab.


----------



## Parcero

Yes, this is very good.

Maybe right on time aswell. Pic A in toxic salt buildup looks a lot like one of my plant which I tought was having N def. And it was caused by high EC stock water which I unfortunately have now aswell. I have to have an other look.


----------



## helpfuljosh

Dear forum members,

I am a first time grower and I have 2 different sorts of plants in an outdoor setting in the Netherlands. 
One of the plants has problems, the others look really healthy. It is an automatic (Northern Light) plant which I planted about 2 month's ago so has been flowering for the last month or so. 
It all started with some of the fairly new leaves turning purple / black. It got worse when a big part of the top bud totally died and dried out.

I guess the pics say more then a thousand words. Hope anyone can help! The troubles started right after I switched pottery (bigger +/- 8 Litre, new soil) and I added some nutrients.  

Thanks in advance.

I used, these auto flowering seeds, the others do very well, this one is in a somewhat different spot with less wind... 

View attachment Northern Lights troubles middel.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Yep Yep..I think this one should go in the stickies Bro...In fact I may download it and print it off to put up in my lab.



Hi HP, or anybody? looking scary here.
Manganese? Iron?
both? 

View attachment 101_0044.jpg


----------



## Hushpuppy

That could be early manganese deficiency/ iron def. But it also looks like a common problem when temps get too cold or it swings from too cold to warm. The colder temps cause the immobile elements to become unavailable.

If the temps are ok then the very next thing I would look at is pH as that causes most problems in gardening.


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> That could be early manganese deficiency/ iron def. But it also looks like a common problem when temps get too cold or it swings from too cold to warm. The colder temps cause the immobile elements to become unavailable.
> 
> If the temps are ok then the very next thing I would look at is pH as that causes most problems in gardening.



Room temps are warm if anything, 79-80
but the rez is kept to 70 
and in flower, maybe too chilly a rez overnight,
THANKS


----------



## Rosebud

They just look hungry to me, like for N, but i am not great at diagnosing, but if they were mine i would feed.


----------



## Grower13

I'm guessing your at least a couple weeks into flower........You shouldn't be having a magnesium issue after 2 weeks into flower........... I add no Magnesium after the 2nd week of flower.........what are you feeding? and how did you change your feeding once flowering was started?......... looks like your suffering a lock out of some sort if your feeding them well......... could be ph related........ if your running synthetic nutes check the PH of your runoff.


----------



## WeedHopper

I still say Nitrogen. Which could have to do with PH .


----------



## sopappy

Excellent folks, thanks.
yes, week 3 ending 
previous were grow nutes, now bloom nutes w calcium    2.0 - 0 - 0.2
label said 1100, I went for 450 (under LED)
*** I've been trying to keep pH at 6.0 by adding 1 - 2 mL pH down to the rez daily after a reading ***'

4 buckets, 2 affected, 2 not
they are different strains too

Emptied the rez, new batch sitting at 5.8   650 ppm


----------



## Grower13

set the reservoir at about 5.6 or 5.7 and let it rise through the range to about 6.2........... I suggest you top off your res every day or 2....... build you an auto top off system...... I run one in my 25 gallon res........ I change out nutes every 2 weeks and almost never have to adjust ph.


----------



## Hushpuppy

Being under LED changes the formula on feeding. If your rez temps don't drop below 60f  or above 75f(for extended periods of time) then its not an issue.

Nitrogen is a mobile element that would get pulled from the older and lower leaves to feed the new growth, I wouldn't think it would ever show that way on the plant. It is most likely a chemical imbalance. Just have to figure out what is causing it.

Exactly what are you feeding(not just amounts) and when up to this point on this grow?


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> set the reservoir at about 5.6 or 5.7 and let it rise through the range to about 6.2........... I suggest you top off your res every day or 2....... build you an auto top off system...... I run one in my 25 gallon res........ I change out nutes every 2 weeks and almost never have to adjust ph.



Frustrating, I'm bang on those numbers 
5.7, then use the ph down when it climbs above 6.0
seems about 1mL ph dn per day, half to a gallon per day top up 

You stick a float in the tub and use another tub or a feed from the house?
I'm reading sitting water is bad and straight from the tap is fine.
So you never add nutes, just top up with water?


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Being under LED changes the formula on feeding. If your rez temps don't drop below 60f  or above 75f(for extended periods of time) then its not an issue.
> 
> Nitrogen is a mobile element that would get pulled from the older and lower leaves to feed the new growth, I wouldn't think it would ever show that way on the plant. It is most likely a chemical imbalance. Just have to figure out what is causing it.
> 
> Exactly what are you feeding(not just amounts) and when up to this point on this grow?



I'd think nutes too but 4 of the 6 plants are fine. (2 in same solution, 2 by hand)
Same nutes i've used for years but could be a bad batch maybe

I can't think of what I've changed or done differently. 
These are the last of my fem seeds, interestingly enough

I'm due for new nute purchase anyways.... suggestions?


----------



## Hushpuppy

It is very possible that those plants that are having issues are just genetically weak. Or it could be that they have damaged roots from something that you haven't seen. Those issues can drive you batty sometimes. I can't use sweet lime or Epsom salt in my coco coir grows or my pH goes completely berserk and I have to flush them to death to get them straight again. Don't know why it won't work but its just one of those things :confused2:


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> It is very possible that those plants that are having issues are just genetically weak. Or it could be that they have damaged roots from something that you haven't seen. Those issues can drive you batty sometimes. I can't use sweet lime or Epsom salt in my coco coir grows or my pH goes completely berserk and I have to flush them to death to get them straight again. Don't know why it won't work but its just one of those things :confused2:



I also thought you were onto something with the temperatures but those are also the last of my feminized seeds and when you say genetically weak, 
things start to gel but why would they be the biggest... I get all the weird problems.


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> Frustrating, I'm bang on those numbers
> 5.7, then use the ph down when it climbs above 6.0
> seems about 1mL ph dn per day, half to a gallon per day top up
> 
> You stick a float in the tub and use another tub or a feed from the house?
> I'm reading sitting water is bad and straight from the tap is fine.
> So you never add nutes, just top up with water?


 

yes just top off with plain water....... I use a 55 gallon drum to with a 350 gph pump and 1/4 inch ice maker line to pump the water to my the float valve in my res....... I plug the pump into a timer set to top off a half hour after my 2 waters per day ..... I run the pump for about 20 mins....... a T loop will have to be use so water can be routed back to top off barrel when the float valve closes due to full nutrient res....... keeps you from burning up pump plants using the nutrients in the water causes the ph to rise......... when ph gets over 6.2 or 6.3 adjust it back down to 5.6 or 5.7.......... as the plants feed the ph will rise if you replace the water used by topping off the reservoir to the same water amount/level......... replacing the used water in the res is the only way to follow the nutrient use by your plants........ if your plants are depleting the nutrient levels in your water in 10 days or less........  you need a bigger res........ remember nutrients don't have to be in your res at maximum levels to properly feed plants in a hydroponic setup.


----------



## sopappy

G13 was saying...
yes just top off with plain water....... I use a 55 gallon drum to with a 350 gph pump and 1/4 inch ice maker line to pump the water to my the float valve in my res....... I plug the pump into a timer set to top off a half hour after my 2 waters per day 

======== 2 flood and drains per day, that's all?

..... I run the pump for about 20 mins.......

======== it takes 20 minutes for your table to fill, then pump shuts off and it drains back to that 55 gal drum in another 20 minutes so your roots are only submerged twice a day for 40 minutes?
I gather there is no space under the pots?
Maybe I'm overwatering in hydro (hahaha). 
I have space under the pots so I leave the roots submergged about half the time (with bubblers) and it floods and drains every 2 hours !!!

======== I'm not getting this, how can you leave your roots hanging in air for 22 of 24 hours a day? don't they dry out?

  a T loop will have to be use so water can be routed back to top off barrel when the float valve closes due to full nutrient res....... keeps you from burning up pump

======== whaaaaa? lost ya there but no matter, not there yet anyways

 plants using the nutrients in the water causes the ph to rise......... when ph gets over 6.2 or 6.3 adjust it back down to 5.6 or 5.7.......... 

======== that's a big jump, I've been adding pH down with my top-up daily instead of waiting for 6.2

as the plants feed the ph will rise if you replace the water used by topping off the reservoir to the same water amount/level......... replacing the used water in the res is the only way to follow the nutrient use by your plants........

yes, you explained this to me once before, a eureka moment, I'm still working on a system to get my measuring accurate, but I think I understand what I'm doing

if your plants are depleting the nutrient levels in your water in 10 days or less........ you need a bigger res........ remember nutrients don't have to be in your res at maximum levels to properly feed plants in a hydroponic setup.

======== nope, I don't get that relationship at all but don't go busting yer chops trying to explain it, I read and re-read, sooner or later it'll gel


----------



## Grower13

I grow in coco chips in 1 or 2 gallon pots........ have a 25 gallon res under a 3 x3 flood and drain table........ the pots sit on the table........ all I do is change out the res every 2 weeks and adjust the ph down every once in a while when the girls are feeding hard........ my ppms with a fresh batch in the res is about 1150 ppm.......... and by keeping the res top off at 25 gallons all the time I can tell how my plants are feeding by the change in ppm's........ at the end of 2 weeks my ppm's will be under 600........but to get accurate info the water has to be the same amount all the time.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> I grow in coco chips in 1 or 2 gallon pots........ have a 25 gallon res under a 3 x3 flood and drain table........ the pots sit on the table........ all I do is change out the res every 2 weeks and adjust the ph down every once in a while when the girls are feeding hard........ my ppms with a fresh batch in the res is about 1150 ppm.......... and by keeping the res top off at 25 gallons all the time I can tell how my plants are feeding by the change in ppm's........ at the end of 2 weeks my ppm's will be under 600........but to get accurate info the water has to be the same amount all the time.



ahhh coco, now I get it
and my nutes are waaaay too low
so, if I get this, you keep the rez at max with the float valve
and you monitor ppms instead of the level in the tank, I've been measuring the level change in my rez. 
Okay, sorry to put you through all that but by Jezuz, I think I got it.
THANKS!


----------



## WeedHopper

Grower13 said:


> I grow in coco chips in 1 or 2 gallon pots........ have a 25 gallon res under a 3 x3 flood and drain table........ the pots sit on the table........ all I do is change out the res every 2 weeks and adjust the ph down every once in a while when the girls are feeding hard........ my ppms with a fresh batch in the res is about 1150 ppm.......... and by keeping the res top off at 25 gallons all the time I can tell how my plants are feeding by the change in ppm's........ at the end of 2 weeks my ppm's will be under 600........but to get accurate info the water has to be the same amount all the time.



Good posting.


----------



## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Good posting.



I call them GEMS.
He did this for me at least once before.... I was pulling my hair out trying to figure out how to do the REZ thing in RDWC and my readings were not making sense.... I did not know to top up the rez BEFORE taking the readings.

This time, I'm still trying to measure water level ebbib' and flowin' and totally confused... it's like he sees me flailing away in the deep-end and then, 
just before I go under, he tosses me a life preserver.


----------



## sopappy

well, I don't see these up there, is this just plain old nute burn?
only like really, really bad 

View attachment burn.jpg


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> well, I don't see these up there, is this just plain old nute burn?
> only like really, really bad


 
I don't think it's nute burn......... looks like deficiency symptoms 



https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231387


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> I don't think it's nute burn......... looks like deficiency symptoms
> 
> 
> 
> https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=231387



Well, I give up, eff 'em if they can't take a joke. The others look fine and the ones in the tray are doing great. I posted the picture in the sick plants thread too, maybe it's a fussy strain, I just hope they don't take out the others.
Duck suggesting isolation, lot of work :-(

critical Kush I think (still no labels)
oh, I missed that link, thanks, I'll not give up just yet

great link, this is a good thread for it too,
I thought I found  it and then read more hahaha... I'm not trying to fix these two plants, 
I think I botched pH and a nute regimen and it was too flakey a seed or strain to handle it
I'm fresh at higher ppms and 5.7,   5.8 and same ppms this am (but I'm waiting until 6.2 to add ph down)


----------



## Hushpuppy

The ppm and water levels thing? let me see if I can shine a little more light on it for you Pappy. *don't smoke a bowl before reading this * Imagine a 3gal bucket of water with a couple handfuls of clay pellets in it. when you look at it you can see there is a lot more water than pellets. but if you pour out half of the water, the ratio of pellets to water goes up. You can see that the pellets are now taking up more space in the water. There is less water to pellets. TDS(ppm) is this measure of "concentration" of pellets and gives you a number that represents the number of pellets to the amount of water.

Now think of the pellets as nutrients. Its the same thing, you just cant see the nutrients like you could the pellets. But the ratio measure is the same. *Now here is where the key is:* the plants will drink ONLY(mostly)WATER sometimes and take in very little of the nutrients that are dissolved in that water. That can be from pH being off or simply from the plants being more thirsty than hungry(or a couple other reasons). 

If the plants take in a gallon of water AND they take in ALL of the nutrients in that gallon of water, the measure of nute to water(concentration) will not change. If they drink more water than nutes then the ppm will actually increase because some of the water has been removed but the nutes were left behind, which increases the concentration of nutes in the water that is left in the rez. If the plants eat more nutrients out of the water and don't take in as much water, then the concentration of nutes will go down (just like reaching into the bucket of water and grabbing a handful of pellets and taking them out. the same amount of water is there but less pellets in it now) the ppm will go down.

Now, generally your plants WILL take in more nutrients than water (ratio wise not total amount wise) and this will cause you ppm to drop. but if they are drinking and eating equally, it will be hard to tell how much nute is in the water because the ratio of nute to water hasn't changed much. By continually adding back straight water to the rez, you are able to see the "concentration" of nutrients fall as the plants feed because you are keeping the water amount the same as the nutes are getting used.  

I hope this makes sense to you.


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> The ppm and water levels thing? let me see if I can shine a little more light on it for you Pappy. *don't smoke a bowl before reading this * Imagine a 3gal bucket of water with a couple handfuls of clay pellets in it. when you look at it you can see there is a lot more water than pellets. but if you pour out half of the water, the ratio of pellets to water goes up. You can see that the pellets are now taking up more space in the water. There is less water to pellets. TDS(ppm) is this measure of "concentration" of pellets and gives you a number that represents the number of pellets to the amount of water.
> 
> Now think of the pellets as nutrients. Its the same thing, you just cant see the nutrients like you could the pellets. But the ratio measure is the same. *Now here is where the key is:* the plants will drink ONLY(mostly)WATER sometimes and take in very little of the nutrients that are dissolved in that water. That can be from pH being off or simply from the plants being more thirsty than hungry(or a couple other reasons).
> 
> If the plants take in a gallon of water AND they take in ALL of the nutrients in that gallon of water, the measure of nute to water(concentration) will not change. If they drink more water than nutes then the ppm will actually increase because some of the water has been removed but the nutes were left behind, which increases the concentration of nutes in the water that is left in the rez. If the plants eat more nutrients out of the water and don't take in as much water, then the concentration of nutes will go down (just like reaching into the bucket of water and grabbing a handful of pellets and taking them out. the same amount of water is there but less pellets in it now) the ppm will go down.
> 
> Now, generally your plants WILL take in more nutrients than water (ratio wise not total amount wise) and this will cause you ppm to drop. but if they are drinking and eating equally, it will be hard to tell how much nute is in the water because the ratio of nute to water hasn't changed much. By continually adding back straight water to the rez, you are able to see the "concentration" of nutrients fall as the plants feed because you are keeping the water amount the same as the nutes are getting used.
> 
> I hope this makes sense to you.



too late, stoned again

Yes, makes sense. That is a great analogy, HP
In my grow thread, I'll lay out how I'm tracking it just in case I'm still muddled but gets clearer all the time.


----------

