# Ebb and grow help, please..



## Budders Keeper (Jan 3, 2012)

Apparantly I have somehow forgotten how to grow. I got the CAP E&G system about a year ago and have had 1 successful crop out of 4. Prior to this system I have ran flood tables, coco buckets, coco, soil, DWC, and organic mixes...all with outstanding results. 

1000w ushio HPS
GH flora + florablend + florolicious plus. 900ppms recently bumped to 1300
Brand new blue lab guardian continuous read meter

PH 5.6-6.0 drift then lowered to 5.6 again
res temp 62-65
room temp 75-80on..60-70off
5x5 room 500 cfm combined exhaust, passive intake

H202 at 3ml per gal at res change(every week)










I really want to make this system work. I feel like I'm the only person on the web that is having problems with it. 

HELP...

Oops, forgot that I have been adding roughly 2ml per gal cal/mag for tthe last 2 weeks. Clones were put in system Nov. 18th...they _should_be huge


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## ozzydiodude (Jan 3, 2012)

Looks to me like you need to add Cal/Mag to your nutes. IMO  your res temp should be 65* to 70*


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks for stopping in Ozzy. I have added cal/mag for the last couple weeks at 2ml per gallon with no change to plants. Would you suggest more? 

Res temp sorta goes with the weather, I'll bump it up to 68. It drops like 1 degree per day till it settles at 62-65.

Thanks for the help.

Throw your ideas at me growers, let's figure this out


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## terky (Jan 3, 2012)

Hey

I have the same setup.

How often are you watering? 

Did you check the stems at the base to make sure they are not rotting?

Over watering?

Whats the H2o2 for? Fighting root rot?

Are there any bugs on the plants?


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 3, 2012)

Hello terky, thanks for the help.

How often are you watering?

Every 3 hours for the last month, every 4 hours before that.

Did you check the stems at the base to make sure they are not rotting?

Not before you suggested it, but did just now and they are green all the way into original oasis clone cube.

Over watering?

I don't think so. How often do you flood in veg?  



Whats the H2o2 for? Fighting root rot?

No, roots are white. Getting brown goo on airstone and walls of res(outside room in dark)...but none in controller or buckets. I _think_ it may be from "florablend" or "floralicious+" solidifying...at least that's my latest thought. Next res change I'm using Lucas formula and seeing if anything changes.

Are there any bugs on the plants?

Not that I've seen. Dipped clones in neem+pyrethrin, and cut clones myself from my own clean Mango mom. Bombed hydro-room a couple weeks ago also. also. 

Thanks again for the help everyone...keep it coming


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## Sol (Jan 3, 2012)

i just checked the nute def chart and it LOOKS like mg def to me, but i use soil so ,not sure.  http://www.marijuana-seeds.net/Thanks/ThankYou.htm


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 3, 2012)

Thanks Sol, Nice link. I've started adding cal/mag but apparently they want a little more.


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## stevetberry (Jan 3, 2012)

My first instinct would be to say that the algae that you mentioned is your problem but you said that your roots are white.  My last grow I had problems with algae in my res and then it got everywhere by the end of the grow and even though I had a decent harvest, it affected my yield.    You definately need to raise your res temperature to between 65 and 70.  What kind of Cal/Mag supplement are you using?  I had trouble with the GH CalMag+ and switched to the new GH CaliMagic formula and have had better results.  Are you having to use more ph down than normal?  I would definately recommend that you up your dose of CalMag to at least 5 ml per gallon.  IMO.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 3, 2012)

I also believe that it is a mag deficiency.  I find that I need to add Cal-Mag all during flowering.

What brand Cal-Mag are you using?  What is the recommended dosage on the bottle?  Botanicare Cal-Mag calls for 5-10 ml per gallon--it is the only Cal-Mag that I have used.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 3, 2012)

Hello THG and stevet

I am using Botanicare Cal/mag...but not enough. I just added 1/2 teaspoon per gal of epsom salts as well.

Temp is now at 68.

What I don't understand is I did a res change adding 3ml per gallon 34% h202...18 hours later I had layer of brown stuff on my airstone and starting on walls of res. 5 days later with no more h202 added the foreigh substance is the same, no more no less. 

How did the "algae" grow with the h2o2 in there?

Why didn't "algae explode after a couple days when h2o2 had dissipated?

No more ph down than usual. I adjust it to 5.5-5.6 and it takes about 5-6 days to get to 6, then I adjust it back down.

I also failed to mention I am still in veg with these. I'm waiting to get problem solved before I hit flower. 

If I can't figure it out in a week or 2 I'm just gonna shelf the hydro for now. I have enough stuff in the clone/mom place to fill room with pots, I gotta get something soon. Supply is diminishing quick.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 3, 2012)

...and, My resevoir is enclosed in a dark room next to grow.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 3, 2012)

Budders Keeper said:
			
		

> Hello THG and stevet
> 
> I am using Botanicare Cal/mag...but not enough. I just added 1/2 teaspoon per gal of epsom salts as well.
> 
> ...



Why are you using way less than the bottle calls for?  I would stay with the Cal-Mag and forget the epsom salts since you have the Cal-Mag.  Step it up to at least 1 t per gal.

I never use H2O2 in my res...ever and I do not have any problems...ever.  Algae is caused by light getting into the res.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 3, 2012)

> Why are you using way less than the bottle calls for?



Overthinking or not thinking. I figured I was using GH's full "simple" lineup so I didn't need full dose.


> Algae is caused by light getting into the res



That's what I don't get. My res is enclosed in a dark room except when changing. I have no brown stuff in controller or buckets, which are under 1000w of light. Dumped out the h2o2 so I won't be tempted.

I ran out of cal/mag last res change. Just threw the epsom in there till I get more botanicare cal/mag tomorrow.

Thank you for all the help, and tomorrow I will be changing res and adding 5ml per gal cal/mag  to the usual GH mix.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 3, 2012)

I would have to agree with the cal/mag deficiency as hydor is always subject to that more than anything other than PH shift. If you have clear watering hoses then light can get in that way and pollute the rez with single cell algae which will die with the H2O2 and pile up around the bottom and walls of the rez. I have seen that. However, if the rez and hoses are light-proof then it is possible that the H2O2 could be binding with one of the chems and precipitating out of the solution. If you are light-tight then I wouldn't bother with using the H2O2.

The nice thing about hydro is that once you get it fixed, they will heal up and take off quickly.


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## nouvellechef (Jan 3, 2012)

I typed like 4 responses. I remember when you got the system. Don't give up on it. I already showed you couple years ago, pics of 8oz per bucket. Up the cal/mag and maybe try running Lucas. You should not need to change the Rez for the whole cycle when done correctly. Just top off.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 4, 2012)

Hello Hp and nc!

I'm not gonna give up, but I am gonna throw in a couple purple ak's in organic mix just in case. Since I haven't seen them take off I've been changing it every week. When I get things right I'll let it go longer. Just got to figure out the right dance. The hashplant was unbelievable in this system. Got lost in crash but I think you saw the 4+ footers.

Hushpuppy,  Yup, everything is black..hoses/buckets, Res is black and in dark room next to grow. I think you are onto something with the H2O2 affecting chemicals in some way. I'm no scientist but deep down I think this is contributing to problems. I have dumped the rest out so I won't be tempted to use it. 
Light must be bleeding through somewhere cause the dead algae piling up on the bottom/walls of res. sounds exactly like whats happening. 

Thanks to ALL for stopping in to help fix this thing, I'll keep ya'all posted. If'n they start looking worthy I'll start a journal.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 5, 2012)

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=53041

There is a link to the same strain(mango) that I did on a flood table/rockwool. This is what I am striving for. That was some knockout weed, that's for sure.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 6, 2012)

Hello Weeders 

That's a term I have heard only once by a 16 year old cashier at a service station I worked at about 20+ years ago.. "That dudes a total weeder". At first I thought she had said something else,  but I confirmed and since have not forgotten.

I have cleaned everything once again. I also now have a backup plan in place just in case. The mix has been reworked as well and goes something like this. 

Lucas Formula (8ml micro-16ml bloom)

Botanicare cal/mag @ 5ml per gallon

1200ppm's
5.7ph
68degree res

*NO H2O2* 

I will post pics this afternoon when lights come back on. Not expecting much of a change in plants yet but there are a couple minor changes in the room.

Feels good to get rid of the h2o2 finally, however it does make me a little nervous about getting "the slime".


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## nouvellechef (Jan 6, 2012)

If you keep those specs, you should end up with a healthy harvest each time without changing rez.


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## SimonSays (Jan 6, 2012)

Really looks and sounds like you got your hands around it now, but id like to comment on a few things since i run a flood system myself.  I have read alot of pros and cons, and do's or dont 's to useing h2o2 in your Res.  I personally use h2o2 in my Res during the times of the year when i have issues keeping my res temp below 70"  I don't use the high concentrate for my preventative i use the 3% stuff for that about 5ml per gallon and only use the 30%+ h2o2 for treatment in the event of getting any root rot.  As long as my Res stays  at or below 70 degrees i dont use it.  Also i had more problems with my Res when i used Organic nutes V's using all Chemical nute.  That Floroblend is organic and seem to always make my Res smell so i stoped using it, no bad smell anymore.   In your situation it seems you dont have any Res temp issues so i would agree in not using the H2o2, and if you did to switch to the 3% stuff instead.  

Only thing i might add to what everyone else has already said, is if your using regular tap water for you Res, you might check that if nothing else doesn't fix it.  Maybe you have something in that.  Everything else sounds like you have it dialed in.   Best of luck


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 6, 2012)

Howdy Simon,
Thanks for stopping in with your info. Tapwater ppm is 70-90.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 9, 2012)

Plants seem to have started growing like they should finally. I also put 2 purple AK and 2 little tiny mango in there. They are in organic mix in smart pots.

Gonna start a journal where I will continue to post pics in a few days.

 Put a pic of new meter and res. Res is beside room in darkness as shown. As you see in the pic with garagelight on...it is also covered with an old comforter. How in the heck am I still getting brown "funk" growing on walls of res? I have taken the advice of most and eliminated H2o2 but I am unsure of how to stop "funk" without it? Any ideas???

Thanks...................bk


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 9, 2012)

The 2 bigguns' were purple AK moms I just transplanted from 2gal pots to 5gal smartpots. Everything shown will get flipped in 1 week, I'm outta time. 

Hopefully these pics help show what the plants really look like.

Smoke up...................BK


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## nouvellechef (Jan 9, 2012)

Try using "zone" maybe. Also change out to standard GH 3 part.


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 9, 2012)

Will do. Straight lucas formula + cal/mag right now. Will change back to GH3 but with no florablend or floralicious this time. No time today but I'll change out tomorrow.

I will also hunt down some zone.


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## Hushpuppy (Jan 9, 2012)

I suspect those plants like more Nitrogen than the Lucas plan provides. I think a good dose or 3 of nitrogen now and going into flower will help them to not yellow off as soon in flower. JMO


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 10, 2012)

Thanks Hushpuppy. I'm going back to all 3 parts tomorrow, and flower in a week. I'm probably going to go with equal parts of GH3 for the first week of flower. The lights just came on a bit ago and they have grown a couple inches in a couple days like hydro should. The stems are also losing the purple streaks and going back to green. I believe things are looking up, I just need to keep them going in that direction now.


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## trillions of atoms (Jan 10, 2012)

the lucas wont need cal mag most of the time until the week of transition. the brown stuff was dead cellular leftovers...the other gray buildup was indeed the other addatives. i have been tweaking the lucas formula out of sheer boredom and have had great results lowering the grow and bumping up the bloom as well as the koolbloom...no h202. running at 1300 ppms can be considered low if your flooding and draing right. running a weak solution causes ph drift. if the roots arnt sitting in solution for hours then try bumping the feeding up and flooding less times per day. the one every three hours flood is a little much for your size containers... the lucas is plenty for mj, simplify by kiss, keep it simple stupid. ive added an ebb and flow 3x3 tent and tray setup for my clones because the lucas was getting it done....once you get comfy with batching then try toying with the mix...ppms are a wonderful unit of measure!!!!   good luck!!!


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 10, 2012)

TOA! Been a lil while dude. Hope things are g(r)oing well for you. Thanks for the heads up. I'm going to change floods to 1 every 4hours when I change out res today. Lucas formula definately seems to have "unlocked" things. 



> the brown stuff was dead cellular leftovers


Thanks, that explains why it happens in my pitch black res in a pitch black room. Hydrostoreguy kept telling me it was algae which I couldn't really believe since it happened when I was running h2o2 in a dark res, nothing in buckets or controller. 

I'm only flooding for 15 min. so no sitting in solution.

Thanks for stopping in, good to hear from you 

Here's a thought.. I've been told no airstone is needed in this system. Could my 45liter airpump in bottom of res be _causing_ problems?


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## Budders Keeper (Jan 10, 2012)

GH3-123-BMG
Botanicare cal/mag
80ish ppm tapwater

1390 PPM
67 degrees
5.8 PH

Howdy folks 

Incredible difference this time. Very little sludge/slime on walls and bottom of res. I'm thinking "florablend" and "florolicious+" were a big part of the problem. 

Switched to 24hour lights from 18/6.
Flood cycles now 1 every 4 hours @ 15minutes.

:48:  Smoke up..........BK


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