# First Grow got wind burn!



## theCre8or (Oct 23, 2007)

Hi everyone.  THis is my first grow.  I'm a little paranoid about keeping a grow journal.  It seems really stupid, putting all the evidence where it can be seen, but everyone else seems to be doing such larger scale opeartions than my little personal grow, I figured they'd go after them before me.  Sorry, don't mean to bring any bad energy.  May we all nurture our love of nature in peace.  

Anyway, here it is.  

Some specifics:  My box I constructed from 1x2's for an open floor (like a pallet) and walls and door made of hardboard which I painted white. This makes it really light and easy to move around.  There is some bracking with 1x2's for the roof - a piece of 1/4" plywood.  The interior dimensios of the box are about  19" x 19 " x 42 "  That's about 2.5 feet squared and about 9 cubic feet.  It's small, but I think it's big enough to do a decent sized grow.  I decided to go with CFL's becaues they are cheap and are not super expensive to power.  I know in the end cost per watt, other lights are cheaper, but I won't be doing a large scale grow where that would work out.   I also changed all the light bulbs in my house to CFL to try to offiset the enegy costs. I plan on doing other tricks as recomended by mutt, such as wrapping my cold water heater in a blanket.  ANyway.  As for lights I'm using (7) 1300 lumens, 5500k CFL's for veg.  I plans on switching to (5) 2600 Lumens 2700k cfls, plus (2) 1800 lumens 2700k CFL's for flower.  The reason for the two dimmer bulbs is I want to put these on the sides of the plants.  I have fixtures that will work nice for this, but the larger bulbs will not fit in them.  The fixtures with the yellow handles are the ones i'm refering to. (pict 003)  According to calculations of 5000 lumens per sq foot, just the 5 should be enough and so these side lights will only be icing on the cake.   Comments are welcome, but I will not be switching to HPS or HID.  The only other lights I'll consider are LED.  Very intriguing what's going on there and I would like to try it.  I've seen enough evindence on this board for the potential of CFL.  I may lose a bit in yield, but I can't imagine it would be that much to make it worth the extra trouble.  This project has taken more time and money already than I expected.  

I took advantage of the special on Jock Horror seeds from Nirvana.  I stuck 3 beans in soil in tiny plastic nursery flat pots and only 1 sprouted.  I think I didn't have them in warm enough conditions.  See sad plant in 2nd picture.  SHe (i hope) is about 2 weeks old.  Ran into many problems.   

First problem - i thought I can do an exhaust fan easily with just a True Air fan sitting on top of a hole in the top of the box.  This worked ok for bringing fresh air in from the open bottom of the box, but it didn't have enough force to pull the hot air out.  I lined the hole with plastic to create a gasket and it helped a little bit, but I could not close the door on the box without the temp going way up.  I discoverd this after I left town for 2 days and came back to find the box was at about 99 degrees F.  More on the resolution to this in a bit. 

2nd problem - I transplanted way too early.  SInce I was leaving town, and I thought I was going to be gone longer, I wanted to put her in a larger pot that would hold more water.  THe stress of this transplant and the excessive heat put a strain on the seedling.  

When I returned, I cooled the plant off by pointing a fan right at her.  Another mistake.  The temps came down to a more reasonable 80 degrees, but this lead to the 3rd problem that I discovered much too late.  More on this in a bit.  

To resolve the exhaust issues, I rearranged my exhaust system by creating a carbon filter as described in other links on this forum.  I did the one that wraps a honeywell universal active carbon filter around some screen.  It seemed like the cheapest and easiest way to do it.  We'll see how it works when my crop starts to smell.   See picture (pict009).   IT looks like it is venting in to the heating duct but it does not.  THat's the heating duct for the house.  I suppose I could have it vent in there, but then it will be much noisier as the sound of the fan will go through the vents.  There is a tiny space between the heating duct and my exhaust pipe.  They dont' touch.  The exhaust fan is a 110 CFM computer case fan.(pict005)  I used the tabs on the end of the ducting to hold the fan in place then used duct tape to try to seal the openings.   I get a good amount of air out of the filter and my temps seem relativley lower in the box.  I also added a smaller 30 CFM case fan as an intake fan. I can close the door and it's cool enough in there.

By about the first week I wasn't noticing any improvement in my sick plant.  It was getting mroe and more yellow.  I thought it was still getting over the heat stress, but was begining to think something else was going on.  At this time I decided to germinate 3 more seeds.  2 Jock Horror and one mystery bag seed.  This time I put them in a much warmer place.  I also did the paper towel method.  All three seeds sprouted a tap root and at about 1/4" I popped them into the soil.  I've read some conflicting threads about which direction to place the tap root, so I put the seeds sideways.   I know, I think now it sounds stupid, but it made sense at the time and I wasn't even on meds.  Anyway, 2 sprouted.   1 sprouted leaves as expected, and the other, what looked like a root.  I left it alone for a day thinking it might turn around, but the tap root developed tiny roots and no sign of the sprout.   So, I tried to invert it.  It was going well, then as I placed it back in the soil, the large curly root broke almost in half.  I gasped, stuck the remainder in the soil and gave it some water.  I put both of them under a humidity dome for a day, hoping the damaged one would develop new roots.  Day 3 after sprouting I put them under the lights, this time in the humidity dome, unlike the first run.  They both are a good dark green with the tiny damaged one showing some yellowing on the tips. (pict 007 and 008)   I lost track of which was the Jock, but I'm thinking it's the smaller, borken-root one.  The larger one looks less like my first lab rat plant, but maybe not.   I would definltey prefer the sativa buzz of Jock.  The bag this seed came from wasn't bad, but it wasn't great.  And since it's such robust growth in nearly the exact same conditions as the other, I'm guessing it's more indica.  Still the shorty might just be so tiny because of the broken root, so we'll see.   

On about day 12 of the first plant I started noticing brown spots.  I touched the leaves and they felt brittle.  My watering schedule had been fine, based on my experience in my regular deck garden with other flowers and plants -  watering only when the soil about 2 inches under the surface feels dry.  This is when it hit me. It's the fan.  It's constantly blowing right on the plant and it's drying the leaves out.  I'm giving my seedling wind burn!  This tiny plant is technically still a seedling and I read seedlings do best in higher temps and higher humidity.  IDIOT!  However, I had a problem.  Removing the fan shot the temps under the lights up to 96 degrees.  I got a clear plastic container and washed it out.  Then I placed it over the plant.  Inside the dome it got to 86-89 degrees, but I thought this would be ok.  I've seen people post that their plants thrive in this temp.  I also placed a small cup of water under the dome next to the seedling to keep the humidity level up under the dome.  This seems to have done the trick.  The old leaves are nearly all yellow with many necrotic spots.   However, there is new growth.  It is green.  It still looks a bit pale, but green it is.  I'm also misting it throughout the day to keep it very mosit in the dome.  The fan is still blowing on the dome and the temp in ther gets to about only 83 degrees.  PHeW.  I think I may have saved it.  

Anyway, that's it so far.  I plan on making some changes.  These 2.5 gallon pots are ok, but i think after these get going. I'm going to switch to a micro grow with several smaller square pots.  I've also got some ideas for a seperate small cloning, germinating, veging box.  It should be easy to do in a large plastic storage bin.  I'll build it, then germinate the rest of my Jock seeds about 2 weeks before taking some clones off of these ladies (hopefully).   Then I'll put them in the cloning box while these ladies (more wishful thinking, c'mon wish with me!) begin their flowering.  Hopefully, with some LST tricks, I'll be able to do most of the veg of the clones in the storage bin.  I guess they'll have to be in there until the first round of flowering is done.  

Any tips and suggestions are welcome. 

Oh and I should say, thanks to everyone on this forum, the pros and the noobs.  The pros for answering the noobs and the noobs for asking the questions.  I haven't had to post many questions becuase they've mostly been asked and answered expertly.  Thanks for your Help!!!!!

a few other detials - 

Using FOx Farms potting soil.  ONe pot has about 40% perlite, the other does not.  I'll transplant the strongest of the new seedlings in the perlite pot and get a small pot for the third.  Hopefully, when I comes time to sex 'em, it will work itself out.  I may just get small square pots and put thew new seedlings in there in preparation for a micro grow.  We'll see.


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## SmokinMom (Oct 23, 2007)

Hey there.    I don't know much about indoor growing, but wanted to send you some green mojo anyhow.  Looks like you've really thought this out, and in about 3 or 4 months you'll be reaping your rewards.  Good luck man!


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## bigbudsbruddah (Oct 23, 2007)

GL with your girls. Treat them nice and they will treat you nice


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## theCre8or (Oct 24, 2007)

Thanks everyone - 

How's the growth looking?  They seem so small to me.  I supposed the new ones are just new and the sick one is just sick.


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## theCre8or (Oct 25, 2007)

Can any pros out there read LONG azz post and comment on my logic please? My seedlings seem to be way small compared to some of the growth i've seen in all these great grow journals.  Granted I've run into many problems and perhaps I'm being anxios/impatient, but I want to make sure I'm not missing anything.  I have some Jock seeds left and am going to start new seedlings in a few weeks, hopefully just before these ladies will be ready to flower, so I can take some cuttings for clones and veg tehm with the new seedlings in a separate container.  

Thanks everyone!


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## theCre8or (Oct 25, 2007)

comments anyone?  Am I missing anything here?


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Oct 26, 2007)

*Eeverything sounds good but i doubt that your fan is causing your plants wind burn. I would say that's a heat issue.  *


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks for chiming in TBG,

I thought it was a heat issue as well, and in fact was probably initially a heat issue.  However, after a few days of cooler temps (76-78 ish)  the plant continued to get worse and the leaves became brittle.  Now that I have a humidity dome over the seedling it's growing much better - new green growth.  The fan I was using was not an oscilating fan, but a computer 110 CFM fan.  That's whay I was pretty convinced it was wind burn.  The new seedings which have been under the dome since their start have not had the same problem.


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

Hey guys, what about my white buckets.  Is this going ot cause a problem later?  Too much light to the roots?


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## DankCloset (Oct 26, 2007)

no your white buckets are fine, drill holes in the bottom, also that plant isnt burnt at all, its drowning is what it looks like, soil looks wet too, you might just watered but thats my thoughts, it kinda looks like a clone, anyway light directly on the roots will cause harm, i.e clear. again any nutes? sorry i didnt read, too long so i just chimed in with my thoughts.


p.s whats the humidity in there?


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

Thanks DC

YEah I watered them recently.  For the potted plant, I wait 'til the soil is dry about 2 inches below the surface.  THe other two I"ve kept really moist insided the dome.  The soil is always wet.  I was planning on letting them dry out a bit more now as they seem to be making it out of the seedling stage ok.    

And thanks for the tips on the pots.  I've drilled the crap out of them.  THey've got plenty of holes and good drainage.   I've grown other plants and understand the importance of drainage.   

I'm begining to wonder if i'm having a nute deficiency, or maybe it was nute lock out?  Here are some more recent pics.  THe first two are the younger bunch.  THey are about a week old.  The bigger plant is an unkown strain.  The smaller one is Jock Horror.  It's the one that had a broken tap root.  It was doing great but is now starting to show signs of yellowing in it's first set of round leaves (cotyledon??)  The more robust mystery strain is also showing some signs of yellowing.  Think this might be from the soild being to moist?

The oldest plant is doing better, but also showing signs of yellowing in the once green new growth.  It first broke ground on Oct 9th.  So it's a bit more than 2 weeks old.  

This is good soil too.  Fox Farms potting soil (not ocean floor)  Any thoughts on how to improve this.  Too early for nutes, right?

The younger, mystery strain is already bigger than the older Jock horror.  They two younger plants sprouted Oct 17th.  That makes them about a week old.


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## DankCloset (Oct 26, 2007)

yeah definatly, let them dry out completely, when adding nutes, make sure the soil is moist already before adding nutes, or that will burn too, or more than likely burn them..

also you might wanna go pick up a moisture meter it will tell u how wet they are down in there.


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## tom-tom (Oct 26, 2007)

good luck on your grow lookin good


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## DankCloset (Oct 26, 2007)

oh yeah i missed a part of that, yeah dude, i only give mine nutes in flowering. i let the plant leech out everything out of the soil for the first 2 months or so but when mixing my soil i use bulk supplies like bat guano and potassium and phosphorus and my potting soil and worm castings


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

Yeah my soil had bat guano and worm castings, so you think I can get by with that soil until flower?  

I think I'll wait a week more and do very dilute nutes to see how it goes.  I already bought FF Grow Big so I may as well try some.  

I'm going to the grow shop now to get some PH testers.  Maybe the water i'm using is off.

IN the sick plants sitcky it mentions a nitrogen deficiency.  Do you think that might be the case with mine?  EVen though it's such good soil?


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

Just tested my PH on straight tap water - It's 6.5.  On the tester that says slightly acid.  I think I read somewhere that 6.5 is normal for MJ.  Do I need to worry about getting it up to 7?  I'm going to test the run off next.


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## DankCloset (Oct 26, 2007)

naw 6.5 is good


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

Looks like it might be a nitrogen deficiencey.  I just tested the soil from that pot.  I"m going to re-test, just to be sure, but that explains the yellow leaves.  How odd, this is brand new soil.


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## DankCloset (Oct 26, 2007)

its not a deficiency....


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

2nd test confirms it.  

Depleted N
Deficient K
Sufficient P


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

I just watered them yesterday, so I prepared a foliar mix of FF Grow Big.  1/4 teaspon in a half gallon of water.  THen I poured in a spray bottle and diluted a little bit more.  Sprayed the leaves of all the plants.  Next watering they'll get the 1/4 teaspoon per half gallon mix.  

since my P came up sufficient, should I be worried about adding Grow Big, since it has 6 4 4?


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## DankCloset (Oct 26, 2007)

hmmm what test was that, that u used?


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## theCre8or (Oct 26, 2007)

rapid test soil test kit it has separate tests for Nitrogen, Potassium and Phosophorus as well as PH.   You don't trust it?  Have you used them?


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## theCre8or (Oct 27, 2007)

Does anyone have any idea how long I'll be veging for?  I know Sativa's are supposed to get tall and I htink Jock Horror is mostly sativa.  I'm going to LST  the ladies.  I think my envrionment is dialed in now, so how long in ideal conditions do you guys think it will take Jock horror to be at sexual maturity?


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## DankCloset (Oct 27, 2007)

wait for preflowers, its amazing new soil is nutrientless.. thats all


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## Mr.Unsleep (Oct 27, 2007)

No real time constraint on flowering. For a taller sativa I would induce flowering a little early to control how tall she will get.

Some flower 12/12 right from seedling. I wait 7-8 weeks in veg. I like em a good 18" or so. Then I start LST. Usually takes that long for me to get a good bush going.

How's the Foliar feeding working? I want to start that on 1 or 2 of my plants to see how they fair.


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## theCre8or (Oct 27, 2007)

Thanks for the tips, Dank.  I understand I should wait fro pre-flower, I just was wondering how long 'til that usually happens.

Unsleep, you don't start LST 'til they're 18" tall?  And you start LST durring flower?  In you grow area, 7-8 weeks gets you 18" tall?  With Jock?  

I thought I'd start LST'ing them almost right away, during veg, like at 8-10 inches.  I don't have lots of heaght in my box and Jock is supposed to get tall, so I wanted to keep her as short as possible.  Especially since I plan on growing with CFL's the whole way and it seems the problem with flowering CFL is penetration through the canopy.  

WIll starting LST that soon cause any problems, in your experience.

As for the foliar feed, I've only done it once.  Didn't really notice any major change yet today.  I'll let you know how it goes over the coming weeks.  I probably won't  foliar feed them again for at least a week, just to be on the safe side.  Actually, they'll probably require a watering before I decide to foliar feed them again, at which point they'll get a light dose of FF Grow Big in the water.  So, it will be tought to say.  Sorry.  Still I'll document my progress here so everyone can see and learn from my mistakes.   


So it sounds like I can expect to start seeing signs of pre-flower by around 8 weeks or so.  I think I read jock flowers for about 9 weeks.  So that means i won't be getting my first taste until end of January.  Oh well.  Maybe I'll force flower a little eariier.  We'll see how they grow.

THANKs for checking in, guys, and please keep wathing!


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## Mr.Unsleep (Oct 27, 2007)

You can start LSt any time you want. I've only been growing one grow so far, but i let them grow up a little first, then started tying around the circumfrence of my pots.  I could of started later or sooner. Probly easier doing it when the plants are younger and the stems should be more flexible.  I cracked one of my main stems once, but it worked out ok with a little splint i made.

LST is about the only thing you can do during flower.  It was fun, but I'm growing bushier strains this 2nd grow, so I'll probly just let them grow on their own. LST was fun tho, and I don't see any disadvantages to it really.

I used a spool of 14guage wire, but I noticed it cut into the stems a little over time. Pipe cleaners are probly better, but I used what I had at the time.  I removed alot of the wire on most plants, since it's formed the shapes i wanted as I tossed them into my flower room.

Reason I asked about foliar feeding is I got a free sample of some "Bushmater" and I wanted to try it out. It says to apply during flowering, but I dunno. I'll have to find out more about this product.

I'd really like to try out some Jock tho. I prefer Sativa buzzes, and I've been eyeballing several "haze" strains and crosses for the future grows.

Yea, flowering takes so damn long! My 1st grow will be ready about X-mas! Present to myself =)  

Play around with LST a little. You'll like it =)


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## theCre8or (Oct 27, 2007)

thanks for the tips!


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## theCre8or (Oct 29, 2007)

Here's the latest my friends - 

It seems to have been a combination of many things.

My inital plant definitley was heat stressed and translplanted too early.  After testing the soil, it did show a nitrogen deficiencey.  Odd because it's new Fox Farms soil.  Maybe the dry conditions caused it to use a lot?   The humidty level in my box was way to low.  I don't have a hygrometer.  I know I should get one, but I was following my own sense of things.  The reason my box was so dry was because I had too many fans.  The ehaust fan was working great, but I had other high CFM fans (2) just blowing on the plants.  THat dried the room out because the air was just being blown around.  THe heat would rise and eventually get drawn out of the top, and the air would cool off, because I had a large (relatively large, computer case fan) fan at the bottom of the box pointing up.   The leaves were getting crispy not because they were't getting enough water from the root, but becaues they were drying out from the dry conditions.  I pulled the fans and have only the ehaust fan (110 CFM) and a small intake fan (30CFM).  I also placed several cups of water in the corners of the box to add moisture to the air.  I'll be able to control moisture that way.   If it's too moist, remove the cups.  Still to moist, add a fan.  Right now it feels almost tropical in there (83.7) degrees.  I know that's a little hot so I want to try to cool it off a bit. 

Here' my question - Will I increase my exhaust CFM best if I line two fans, one in front of the other, at the exhaust point, or is it better to have them sit side by side into the wider shaft then the exhaust point?  My instinct says side by side, as having them lined up one in front of the other will actually create a bottle neck, right?  THe one in front will actually stop the air from the one behind it from flowing easily.  Right?

Thought anyone?


Anyway, I'm going to start nutes at very dilute amounts, every other watering.   I'll increase to every watering after about 4 waterings.  Then I'll up the dosage.  etc.  

New pictures will come this week.  The younger seedlings are having some nice growth.  Nice tight nodes, but the leaves are so tiny.  HOpefully with the humidty changes, that will improve.


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## theCre8or (Oct 29, 2007)

Seems the consensus i for side by side on the fans, if you're interested.


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## DankCloset (Oct 29, 2007)

i want pics lol


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## theCre8or (Oct 30, 2007)

Well here they are then, Dank!    

They smaller plant has some browning on the leaves.  I'm thinking that is due to overwatering.  I haven't watered them for 2 days and the soil still feels pretty wet.  I'll check 'em out tonight before bed and see how they look.

The OG plant doesn't look like it's going to make it.  ALl it's leves are turning brown and the stem is brown.  I'm not going to do anything to it except water it when the soil is dry.  Hopefully it wil lmake it.  If not, oh well.  Lessons learned.   If he dies, I'll transplant the two in the nursery flat in to each of the two buckets I have.   The larger of the two new seedlings has roots starting to come through the bottom of the flat so that one will need to transplant soon.

These two sprouted on Oct 17th.  So they're about 2 weeks old.


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## theCre8or (Oct 30, 2007)

i went out and got a hygrometer.  My box has a RH of only 30!.  It must have been bone dry in there when the fans were all going.  GRRR!!!

Anyway, now I have on week (before the critical 3rd week of veg) for my remaining plants to get into the proper humidity.  I'm experimentiing with some homemade humidifiers right now.  Hopefully I can get this figured out by tomorrow.  I may just head over to Target and pick up a small humidifier.  My grow box isn't very large, so I hope I won't have to take up space for a humidifier.  

Maybe one of those pet ones with a tube that goes into the box...


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## Mutt (Oct 30, 2007)

I sprout mine in a 16 oz. cup...8 oz at least. I found that those tiny starter cups are hard to keep "right". 16 oz. I can tell by weight if its ready and it takes 2-3 days. Those lil cups they dry out too fast.
My R/H is about 28%....


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## theCre8or (Oct 30, 2007)

Thanks for the tips, Mutt.  I've got 5 more Jock seeds that I was waiting to plant after I finished this grow.  Work out all the kinks first, ya know.  I'll try that next. 

I made a ghetto humidifier. 

Small 30 CFM fan that I had laying around on top of a plastic cup half full with water and towels above the water line.  I cut some holes on the side of the cup above the water line and pointed the fan down into the cup.  The air coming through the holes is mosit enough and has brought my RH up to abou 40%.  I'll probably have to refill once or twice a day, but it is helping.  I also backed the lights away from the seedlings a bit.  I'm at 78degrees at the seedling sight and am gettting closer to 50% humidity.


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## DankCloset (Oct 31, 2007)

my r/h is up around 35-40 i've got a box fan on mine, also i start mine in a 4'' square pot. standard greenhouse style.





these pots are small enough for the plants roots to still go seeking, but they also retain moisture quite well, next time i suggest you use similar, those little plugg packs are very small and need watering daily , specially outdoor.


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## theCre8or (Nov 1, 2007)

Well things are going down hill still..

My soil is Nitrogen deficient.  I don't understand why.  Anyway, my very healthy looking babies are not so healthy looking anymore.  I bought a small reptile humidifier and have that and my ghetto humidifier both running.  I know have 50% realtve humidity in the grow box.    Temps below 81 degrees.  I added some Grow Big (6 4 4) 1/4 strength.  I'm concerend because my soil tests also indicates a surplus of phosphorus.   Should I buy a sepearate bottle of Nitrogen to balance things out a bit?  I also transplanted into 2.5 gallon buckets.  

The OG plant is actually still alive.  I'm hoping whith the humidity it will turn around now.  It's been so badly stressed, even if it survives, I bet it will be male or hermie.  Still, I want to give it a whilrl and see fi I can save it.  

Pictures to come tomorrow.


Should I be concerned that my soil test shows a surplus of phosphorus?


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## DankCloset (Nov 1, 2007)

lol sounds like you need to add drastic measure for nitrogen, pee on them.


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## theCre8or (Nov 1, 2007)

not full strength?!

I'm up for that, but how dilute?


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## theCre8or (Nov 1, 2007)

and what should I be eating/drinking before dosing?


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## DankCloset (Nov 2, 2007)

dont really matter, your body strips it of viables to us anyway, give her a good whirl and just pee on em outside or in the shower or something lol


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## theCre8or (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm tesing Nitrogen and PH in my urine.  (I know, funny)

I diluted it with water. The water I know  has a balanced PH from previous tests.  

The sample shows a pH of about 5.0 or 5.5, acid.  The Nitrogen is still processing.  

Won't that through the PH of my soil off if I use it to try to fix a nitrogen deficiencey?


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## DankCloset (Nov 2, 2007)

welp as i see, lol you gotta do something, might as well try it

or go pay some money for superthrive and bat guano.


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## theCre8or (Nov 2, 2007)

I don't mind doing that.  I'm just puzzled by the soil.  It supposed to have Bat Guano in it.  Could it have been depleted in such a short time.  I should test a bit of fresh shoil just to see.  I've already added Grow Big, but it's 6 4 4 and my soil test shows a slight surplus of Phosphorus.  So it seems this is a combination of N def and P surplus?  What are teh symptoms of Phos surplus.  I didn't find any in the guides.  Can anyone shed some light here? 

I also included a picture of my ghetto humidifier and a reptile terranium humidifier I bought.  I saw plans to make one online, but this wasn't expensive, about $20.   I figured this and the ghetto one together would work well.    My box now reads only 35%RH.  I'm experimenting with the exhaust fan.  Perhpas it's too strong and is drawing the moiture out too quickly.  I turned it off to see if the humidity goes up.  The ghetto humidifier cools the air, so I'm hoping it will have an AC effect and keep the temps from getting to high.  If this works, I'm going to get a lower CFM rated fan.  

I'm nervous about using the urine fert.  I just added Grow big, so I want to wait and see what happens.  What do you guys think?  I tested it with the soil test kit I have and it says it has adequate Nitrogen.  If I put it in with the Grow big, that would be too much, right?  Wait 'til next feeding?


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## theCre8or (Nov 3, 2007)

The ladies look better today.  Leaves are up and perky,  I think the Grow Big and a diltuted dose of my own urine seems to have made them happy.  I"m gonna keep them on just the Grow Big now.  Next watering will they'll get 1/4 dose.  

Things are looking up!


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## DankCloset (Nov 3, 2007)

glad things are lookin your way  ;P


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## theCre8or (Nov 3, 2007)

and thanks for the tip Dank!


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## theCre8or (Nov 5, 2007)

Hooray for nitrogen!

They are so much happier today.

Now I think I've finally hit my stride.  The box is till a bit dry at a consisten 30% RH.  Not bad for flower, low mold possibilities and more resin.  But my seedling state can be accomodated with a humidity dome, which I'm keeping over them.  Under the domes, the humidty is up to about 60% RH.  I'll do this 'til they outgrow the dome or I sex them, whichever comes first.  This should increase my chances of females, yes?

THANKS for the TIPS EVERYONE!
:fid:


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## DankCloset (Nov 5, 2007)

YES, glad to see your ladies(fingers crossed) pull through, those are looking way way way better, you know what might help them a bit with the shock is some superthrive, its micro nutrients(mainly vitamin b-12) that the plant can access immidiately


dc

p.s. looks like those lil leaves are reachin up for the light, hows your light situated?

get a pic of that ;P


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## theCre8or (Nov 5, 2007)

The lights were farther away, to help keep temps down while I was trying to sort out why they were dying.  I'm pretty confident they needed N now, so I moved the lights back about 3-4 inches from their tops to get them closer now.  TEmps stay around 82 when they're closer instead of about 78 when they are farther.  I think they'll be ok like that as others have commented they their rooms get hotter.  Plus, 82 feels kinda nice on a summer day, so I imagine the plants don't mind if I don't.  

I bet they're going to take off now.    This is the end of week 3.  They sprouted on Oct 17th.  I was going to flower them at 4 weeks.   We'll see what they look like then.  I might go an extra week or two, but I'd really like to harvest by 2nd week of January.  So we'll see.  Since they're stunted, they're only about the size of 1 or 2 weeks.  

Lesson learned - When using Fox Farms Ogranic Soil (not FF Ocean Floor, which I should have got) it is important to give nutes, especially Nitorgen, right at two weeks or at the first sign of yellowing at the cotyledon.  


THanks again


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## theCre8or (Nov 13, 2007)

Time for an update!

Everything's coming along swimingly!
My OG plant that was near death is really strong now!  I didn't think it would make it.  Once it got some nutes, it took off.  Flowering cycle to start soon!

I want to clone soon.  I posted a question in the propagation forum.   Check it out along with some cool new pictures...

here's the link
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=173929&posted=1#post173929


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## theCre8or (Nov 16, 2007)

Well, know you all prefer differnt lights for flower, but I'm using CFL's for my mini grow.  

I've got (6) 2600 lumens CFL bulbs above the ladies under a reflector of mylar and carboard.  In each of the four corners of my 2.56 sq ft box are 1300 lument CFLs.  Those will stay on the sides of the plants as they grow taller.  That's a combined 20,800 lumens, distributed around the box.  That gives me 8,125 lumens per sq ft, well over the suggested 5000 lumens/sq ft for flower.  I expect good results.  

I just set my timers and the first dark cyce of 12 /12  will begin tonight at 8pm.  The seeds sprouted the 16th of october.  So they are exactly 1 month old.  

New Pictures soon...


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## onelove420 (Nov 17, 2007)

i have those same lights and if u leave the metal on they get way to hot even with the 2 im using. u should take the metal off and keep the light close to the tops of the plants.


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## onelove420 (Nov 17, 2007)

ur probley cooking ur plants, n ******* up the nutes in the soil


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## theCre8or (Nov 19, 2007)

Thansk for the tips one love - 

The metal actually didn't get hot at all. Actually, I think it worked like a heatsink, distributing the heat from the CFL balast.  I changed them anyway, so that I can have them all on one chain.  I took a $7 bathroom light bar from Home Depot and put some of those y connectors to hold two bulbs.  I made a reflector with mylar backed with some cardboard.  So much better and easier to work with.

As for nutes, I feel good about the schedule they're on.  I tested the soil and had a deficiency of Nitrogen and surplus of Phosphorus.  I had them on a schedule with Fox Farms grow big, but they showed signs of that phosphorus surplus, which masks as an Iron defficiency.  I did some reading and found a phosphorus surplus can do this.  So, I gave them a water flush and a dilute dose of urine.  I'm going to give them one more water and then one more feeding of Grow big.  Then I'm going to switch to Tiger Bloom as I just started the flower cycle.  

UPDATE:  Here are some pictures -
Jock Horror, Seeds Sprouted Oct 16th.  
3 week of 24 hour light with (7) 1300 lumens 5500k CFL's 
1 week of 18/6
2 days of 12/12 with (6) 2600 lumens and (2) 1300 lumens 2700k cfl's.  The two smaller bulbs are in the back corners of the box and will stay on the sides of the plants.  I'll be adding 2 more of the 2600 lumens CFl's for the front corners of my box.  

They are being LSt'd also, and are already showing multiple grow sites.

Fingers crossed for ladies!


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## DankCloset (Nov 19, 2007)

you got the right idea with the heatsink, lol you peepee plants are lookin awesome!!! glad that they survived.

Dc


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## theCre8or (Nov 20, 2007)

Thanks Dank!


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## theCre8or (Nov 25, 2007)

Been flowering since the 16th of November now- about a week.  Out of 3 plants, it appears one is male.  The other two appear female.  Hopefully they;ll stay that way.  Pictures haven't come out clear enough to confirm sex with you guys.  I'll try this week with a different camera.  No good macro lens available.

What should I do with the male?  It's LST'd and I suppose if grown straight it would be about 12- 14 inches tall.  Lots of nice fan leaves.  Should I try that alcohol has oil I've seen made here.  Isopropyl alcohol to soaked and drained leaves, alcohol evaporates leaving some hash like goop.  Will it be worth the trouble?  It sure is a stinky plant. Can scent be a measure of potency/THC content?

Thanks!


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## theCre8or (Dec 6, 2007)

Well, here are my ladies!!
I've been flowering for about 3 weeks now.  Things are lookin pretty good.  THey look a bit sick, but I think it's because I had to leave em for a little over a week for a business trip, so they didn't get their regualr feeding shcedule.  Looks like a nute deficieny, yes?  I gave them a regular dose of Tiger Bloom yesdterday.  I'll give them a foliar feeding of TIger today. I'll wait anotehr day or two and give them a little bit of a heavier dose, then back to normal feeding.  

The drag is I have two more week long business trips before harvest.  I'll have to look into a drip system I suppose.  They seemed to do ok with water, but they certainly needed the nutes.  After the trip, the soil was dry, but not as dry as I was expecting.   Just a lot of yellowing.  Oh well.  I'll come up with some plan.  Suggestions are welcome.  

Thanks everyone!  I can't believe i'm about a third of the way with flower!  I'm planning on letting em go about 10-12 weeks.  We'll see.


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## theCre8or (Dec 11, 2007)

I've been giving my ladies double doses of Tiger Bloom and they are turning a nice dark green.  The leaves around the bloom are covered with crystals.  They are looking great.  I"ll take some more pictures later this week!!

WOO HOO!!!


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## [email protected] (Dec 11, 2007)

DankCloset said:
			
		

> naw 6.5 is good


what? 6.5 is close, but 7.0 is perfect


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## medicore (Dec 11, 2007)

great job bringing those ladies back to good health.


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## theCre8or (Dec 14, 2007)

Thanks everyone!!!


Here are the latest pics.

I've also taken a shot of the new veg box I made.  It's just a single storage bin with (4) 1300 lumen CFL's.  I lined the inside with mylar, including the lid.  I put an exhaust fan on the bottom of the box, but because I want it to extract the heat from the top of the box, I created a channel with some cardboard and duct tape.  Passive intake on the bottom front of the box.  IT's really small/short, but I'll LST the plants and only veg them for about 4- 6 weeks. in there - then into the flower box.  It's also really warm - 84 on the bottom of the box and up to 90 at the top.  I figure this will be ok for veg.  As long as I'm vigilante.  I'm considering adding a low CFM intake fan to see if that cools it down in there.


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## theCre8or (Dec 17, 2007)

Started some new seeds.   Keep watching for updates on this batch.  I"m going to start a new Journal for the new Jock Horror seedlings.  Same strain, but I've built a veg box and want to document progress with it.  It's pretty short, so I hope to LST these gals and develop a bonsai mamma.

I'm about 4 weeks or so from harvest of this batch, so the thinking is,  at that time, I'll have some space free up in the Flower box.  I'm also gonna switch from round buckets to small square pots.  It will give me uniformity and maximize my space.   They'll definitely be micro grows, but this way I can be harvesting every few weeks.   I bet this way I'll be able to get  at least 3/4 of an ounce ever few weeks.  I only smoke a few times a week, and in small doses.  A gram lasts me 2 weeks at least.  With that much bud I can share with friends.  

As for these ladies, they are growin great.  One is becoming quite bushy with many bud sights.  the other is a bit more squat single cola.  I tried to LST it, but it didn't develop nearly as many grow tips.  A couple of baby ones. But the main bud is certainly the largest.  I'll take some more pics soon.  They already look quite different.


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Dec 17, 2007)

*May i say the ladies are looking great. :aok: Like i always say whatever your doing keep it up because the ladies will reward you in the end.  *


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## Richy-B (Dec 17, 2007)

Looking great! Nice and tight. Is that from LST'n?


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## theCre8or (Dec 18, 2007)

Thanks guys!  

I suppose the LST does help keep them tight, as it allows the light to penetrate more.  However, I've had the lights right on top of these ladies - within 2-3 inches - from the begining, so that's probably why they are so tight.  Also, this is a very small space that I'm working in.  I've got (6) 2600 lumen, 2700k CFL bulbs over them.  That alone gets me over 6000 lumens per square foot in this small box.  Plus, I have (2) of the same bulbs and (2) 1700 lumen bulbs in each of the 4 corners of the box.  That's an additional 8600 lumens coming at the plants from the side.  They've got plent of light. 

I didn't want to go with any HID lights because I didn't want to setup any aditonal cooling system.  As it is now, the box stays at a good temp and the plants seem to be thriving.  I may be sacrificing a bit in my final yield, but things are looking good so far.  I've got about 4-5 more weeks left!


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## medicore (Dec 18, 2007)

This is why I don't grow inside, too much trouble.  Looks like you got em under control though, good work.


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## theCre8or (Dec 18, 2007)

Growin indoors has it's pluses and minuses.  For a micro grow, just for personal stash, it's perfect.  I have a nice hidden space for everything - I can even have people over to my house, my gf's parents, anyone, and they won't be the wiser - no smell - very stealth.  You could even be standing right next to my grow box and not know it.  Because it's in my place, I can check on it as often as I need.  This is my first grow, so I'm checkin' em out every night, except for some business trips.  For the next grow, I'll have a better idea of what to expect and can let them go for a few days.  I hope to set up a simple drip system so I won't even have to check them often at all.  

Can anyone reccomend a good single plant drip system or design, or somehting small for 2-4 plants?

THanks


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## Fretless (Dec 18, 2007)

This is your first grow!?  Man, I wish I had pics of my first attempt.  Straight out of a Cheech and Chong movie.  5 foot tall sativas surrounded by shop lights, until they got too tall for the closet, finished out next to my bed with the floros and a pair of garage halogens....timer goes off in the AM....oh maaaaan!!!
   I thinks you may be a natural ~


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## theCre8or (Dec 19, 2007)

Thanks for the props!

I did my research.  Did a lot of reading and planning.  Even then I ran into several snags.  Still, these ladies came back to life.  The one with all the skinny shoots was the one near death.  And how cool is it to get two very different but beautiful plants.


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## SAHM318 (Dec 20, 2007)

I really enjoy your GJ because it's so detailed.  I'm looking to grow my own small batch like you're doing, but my problem is finding the space.  You're doing a great job with your plants.  I hope you get great results.  Sending some GREEN MOJO to you. Keep up the great work.  BTW, how long did it take you to research before you set out to do this?


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## theCre8or (Dec 20, 2007)

thanks again everyone,  I'll be posting new pictures after the holiday..


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## theCre8or (Dec 29, 2007)

Here are the pics I promised.  
This is two plants.  One is Jock Horror - the skinny bushy one.  The other is a bagseed mystery strain.  Looks indica dominant, yes?  ANyone wanna take a  stab at what it might be?  It has one large cola with a few smaller ones growing also. It gets very sappy in between the colas.  

SHould I be worried about that being a potential spot for mold?  My box is pretty clean and I have a furnace filter (rated to filter out mold spores) on the intake - but still, the door opens and closes, etc.  


I know this yield is less than what an HID light would provide, but at about 2-3 weeks from harvest, I'd say this is pretty impressive, especially for an ALL CFL grow.   The colas are getting fatter and fatter.


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## theCre8or (Jan 4, 2008)

Does anyone have any comments regarding my concerns in the previous posts?


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## theCre8or (Jan 4, 2008)

Bueller?
Bueller?
Bueller?


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## thestandard (Jan 5, 2008)

since u seem desperate, idk much at all.. leaves are supposed to die off as harvest approaches, 2-3 weeks doesnt sounds too early for this to be going on. Attack that potential mold problem with something quick, dont wanna hurt your harvest


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Jan 5, 2008)

well... I just went thru yer whole thread quickly, so I can make a few comments, if you'd allow me to indulge myself...

about yer nitrogen deficency problem... in the veg stage, nitrogen is a very important element... so ... I use a hydro fert of NPK 5 - 0 - 3 during pre flowering to get up to a 1800PPM strength. When I switch to a 12/12 light schedule, I just start adding hydro flowering nutes at 800PPM and work up to full strength 1800PPM both ferts till harvest... and give some special juices along the way...

u know what?... I was thinking I was getting mold probs nearing the end of the flowering cycle too... until I looked closer. the "mold" that I thought was forming on my buds, was actually all the trichomes starting to cloud over. it just means cropping is just around the corner... :hubba:


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## theCre8or (Jan 5, 2008)

Thanks guys for chiming in!  

My plants are quite healthy, now.  I'm not worried about anything, necessarily, right now.   I don't think I have any mold right now.  I was just concerned, since some of the branches are quite sappy, some mold would form in the moisture created by the sap.  There isn't any mold yet.  I just wonder if any of you with experience have had mold grow if there was too much "sap."  I'm so close to the finish line, I would hate to lose to mold and so I'm trying to be proactive.  Thanks for the tip regarding the clouding of the trichomes.  That might have made me nervous!  

Also, i was hoping you guys can comment on my yield.  For a CFL grow, it looks good to me, but I've never grown anything else before.  

THANKS AGAIN EVERYONE!


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Jan 5, 2008)

what I'm thinking is... if you are really worried about anything... put a fan in there to get the air moving around in the box... and damn!... your stuff turned out nice from the first pics u posted at the start. great job


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## theCre8or (Jan 6, 2008)

Yeah, I bought an oscillating fan small enough to fit in my little box, but I was going to wait 'til the end of this grow to mount it.  I suppose I may as well do it, but I've been so busy lately.  I was also thinking about your comments about nutes.  I understand the nutrient neccessties, but I didn't understand why my good Fox Farm Soil seemed to not provide enough N for a Jock Horror seed to get going.  It seems that strain just needs a bit more N than others as I have some bagseed growing next to one in a new grow that have done fine in the exact same conditions.  I've been using FF Grow big and my urine to revive them.  That works, but I wonder if I'm sacrificing some yield by tweaking the PH, even if it's just a tiny bit.  Your comments made me consider buying some bottles of straight N for Jock Horror seeds.  

I'm also planning on taking some JH Clones.  Do you think the clones will require the same type of N boost at the beginning?  I know I can use a rooting gel, but I bet the soil will need to be rich with Nitrogen to keep them going.  

Can't wait!!! Harvest is 'round the corner!


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Jan 6, 2008)

ok... I'm probably wrong, but here's what I'm thinking... nitrogen is important in the vegging stage, quite obviously. giving nitro boosts to seedlings and clones (at the start) is advised against. I agree it would be advantages early on, I would go really weak at first, however. for clones, which is how I generally propegate, I just soak the peat pellets in a weak rooting solution, along with the rooting hormone on the cuttings (some samples I'm using up, and seems to work 'the cat's but').

once you got roots, then the nitrogen heavier ferts can be used - that's what I do... for my vegetables, I mean... :hubba:

and the thing about your apparent nitrogen dificiency... commercial potting soil is suppost to be just that... just soil - no nutes.
the reason the nitrogen is deficient for your levels, is cuz it is being used up the most by the plant, so therefor needs to be added.

k... i'm gunna stop talking now


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## theCre8or (Jan 6, 2008)

No - keep talking - and thanks for that.  This is my thinking almost exactly and it certainly helps when someone can confirm my inexperienced logic.  So no extra nutes other than cloning solution 'til they root.  Then, I'll start them with a 1/4 strength watering.  
I don't think the mystery strain will require the same care.  They do just fine a bit longer before requiring nutes.  

Thanks again!

More pictures to come this week.


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## theCre8or (Jan 27, 2008)

just a quick update --

I've harvested and am in the process of drying/curing the buds.  

It's winter and my apartment gets mighty dry, do to the GFA heat blowing all the time.  The mystery strain felt like it dried way to quickly when I had it hanging upside down.  After about 3 days, it was crumbling and the stems were about at that snapping point.  I jarred them.  Their moisture level seems to have balanced out.  

My Jock Horror strain I harvested a week later.  I skipped the hanging porting and went right into the brown paper bag.  Left that there for about a week and they also became crumbly, but not quite at the point of snapping twigs.  I jarred it anyway and have been opening the jars and pulling all the buds out every day.  Removing fan leaves as they dry off completely (there aren't many left to begin with.  Separating the buds a bit to let the inner reaches breathe a bit.  

They seem to be doing well, but it  they smell a little odd.  I don't see any mold, but maybe I'm missing something?  It seems that when I let them air out a bit, they smell like good buds- more normal, but when I first open the jar, they stink awful.  Could that just be the smell of the mystery strain?

Anyway, they smoke report of a quick dried bud... on a scale of 1-10 - jock horror gets about a 7.5.  It doesn't have a big flavor (though I'm hoping the cure will improve that) but it does have a fairly strong high.  It is quite cerebral.  No draggy sleepy feeling.   Definitely better than the mystery strain which isn't as strong and definitely more of an indica high.  

Anyway that's it for now...


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## gangalama (Feb 7, 2008)

maybe it smells cuz ur pourin piss on ur plants? justa thought.LOL


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## Ganja_Greg (Feb 7, 2008)

nice pics? of the finished product


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