# useless formula



## Teamster6

Some were interested in the useless formula. It was posted by trillions of atoms on here but it has been altered alittle so I will repost it for those that have a interest.

*GH 3 part - Useless' formula* 
OK, I figured I would post this here, since some folks are asking about the GH 3 part. 
This is my feed schedule - 

Here is the nutrient regimen I use and how I control PH with little or no ph up or down...

So OK - feeding schedule week by week. This is the GH weekly feeding program, slightly tweaked. I will only call out the volume of each part per gallon of water in the following manner: grow, micro, bloom, ppm range. Example - 5-2.5-2.5-400/800 would mean 5 ml grow, 2.5 ml micro, 2.5 ml bloom and a ppm of 400-880. Remember it's per gallon. You Euro's can easily convert to liters. 4 liters is just a little bit over 1 gallon. It should also be noted that I use the hardwater micro due to my tapwater. I suggest using the hardwater micro in place of the regular micro if your tap water is over 200 ppm total or you have over 70 ppm Ca. RO water users should use the regular micro.
Veg - 
week 1 5-2.5-2.5-400/600
week 2 10-5-3- 600/800
week 3 12-6-3 800/1000 (continue week 3 formula if additional veg time is required.)

Bloom
week 1 6-6-10- 800/1200
week 2 3-7-12 - 1000/1400
week 3 3-8-14 - 1000/1400
week 4 3-8-16 - 1000/1400
week 5 (discussed in detail below*)
week 6 0-7-20 - 1000/1400
week 7 0-6-20 (see bleow**)
* During week 5 if not using a booster like Superbud, Bushmaster Kabloom etc. run 2.5-7-18. I use MOAB (Mother of All Blooms) or BushMaster at 50% of recommended strength, and use 1.25-3.5-9 for the fert base. 
**If running an 8 week strain you should only run the ferts during week 7 for a maximum of 3-4 days. This gives you 10 days for flushing. I should note that if I use ferts for a few days in week 7, I take the lants over the 8 week mark. Personally I flush for a min of 14 days. But 10 is bare minimum imo/ime. 

The ppms work out almost exactly. I tend to lean toward the lower side of the range, unless I have a really heavy feeder that I know can handle it. 

At every ressy change out I add in 5 drops per gallon of 35% food grade H2O2. During flush use ph adjusted water at 5.5-6.0
I will add epsom salt at week 1 of bloom if the plants are heavy feeders AND I see signs of an Mg def. Otherwise I won't use it. The only time I have ever had Mg def is during transition. The GH 3 part is a little low on Mg, but the PBP and Canna nutes are way lower. 

Now- how to control your PH...
There are a couple factors that cause your PH to drift. The most common is running the nute solution too strong or too weak. If it's too strong, your PH drops. If it's too weak the PH rises. You have to find the balance point. If you find that the formula above is say, a little strong, and say you have a 20 gallon ressy, mix the nutes for 18 gallons. If it's a little weak, mix it for 22 gallons. You follow?
The other common mistake is mixing your nutrient solution and trying to adjust the PH right away. You have to allow time for the ph buffers in the nutrient solution to do their job. Mix the nutes up, and bubble or circulate for 12 hours before even looking at your PH. You will find the PH to be almost right on target.
I use little or no ph adjusters. (Except during flush). I use tap water, with a starting PPM of 300-400 and a starting PH of 7.4-9.0 (Thats crazy you say! The water is too hard, you will never get stable PH and you will have too much Ca, causing a lockout of Mg!) Bollocks I say.
Every week, on Friday I drain the ressy and fill with plain water. I let that run overnight giving the plants a little flush. This also allows the chlorine and ammonia to evap. On Saturday morning, I mix the nutes into the ressy. I DO NOT adjust ph at this time. Let that run as is overnight. On Sunday morning, I check ph and adjust if needed. Usually don't have to. 
Doing things this way has saved me from constant PH drifts, and using about 150 ml of ph down every ressy change, and a little here and there throughout the week to keep it in the desired range. Now, the most I ever have to use is about 30 ml.if any at all. (I have a 35 gallon ressy btw) My Ph stays at a constant 5.5-5.8. 

If you are still having PH issues using the above method, an alternative is to PH adjust the plain water to 5.5 BEFORE you add nutes. 


Well, that's how I do it. Bring on any questions, happy to answer them for you. 
Cheers and good growing to everyone. 
__________________
"I desire knowledge by nature," the words of Aristotle, my nature is not to hate you. So I try to put myself in the depths of the other man, peace to my brother man, in search of my place in this world to discover man, damn


----------



## ozzydiodude

Thanks Teamster we always need more ways to use the nutes that are on the market today


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

I find that I always have to use Cal-Mag with GH nutes.  I also always have to pH my solution, even though I mix just as you do.  I also cannot image pHing my solution to 5.5 and then adding nutes--nutes always takes my pH down at least a point.

While schedules can be nice for beginners, I have found that I need to pay attention to my plants and what they tell me.  I have some that are heavy feeders and some that are light feeders.  If I mix the same for all, some get overfed, some are underfed.  I push my nutes until I see a little nute burn and then back off just a little.

I also do not flush.  I found that plants that are flushed and plants that are not flushed taste and burn the same.  However, plants that I flushed (withheld food) don't quite fill out as much or become quite as dense as plants that are fed to harvest.


----------



## Teamster6

It depends on your type of water. I am on hard well water here and I can mix the nutes let them stand and the ph wont change much from the time of mixing. Also I do five gallon dump buckets and I add 1/4 teaspoon epsom salts to five gallons because gh nutes are low in magnesium. It really helps to use the hard water micro.

Useless has this tweaked alittle on the formula and it works great on a lot of strains but on some I run it 20 % on the light side.

I dont ever start the formula with the 5.5 ph I just mix the nutes dont let them stand knock it down to 5.8 for hydro and go to feeding.

Try it sometime it works and has been used countless times.

t6


----------



## NorCalHal

That formula really runs on the low ppm side. Most Strains I have worked with can handle quite higher ppm's.
I guess for someone new to growing, this is a good start, although I would boost the Veg ppm for sure.
imo, epson sucks. It does not give enough Mg ppm for my liking. I start out at 400 ppm of just cal mg. MJ is a HEAVY mg feeder.
I also think that grow is not needed after week 1, and week 1 is the time to hit them HEAVY with Bloom. 1500ppm on week 1 will trigger the flowering faster and start bud formation much quicker.

PH is an issue that each person has to learn about thier particular water supply, as it is so different for each of us. R/O water is the best choice, if feasable.
I never let my nuit mix sit, I feed as soon as I make it. I too do not have to add any ph up or down, I use the nuit mix to adjust.
IE. Bloom will raise PH, though slightly. Koolbloom does too.Silicate will really rise your PH, but most folks do not use silicate,but it is a requirement when usuing ro water.
I use hygrozyme every feeding, and hygrozyme will lower PH.Superthirve will lower ph also.


All in all, this is a good feeding schedule for GH. Feeding on the lower end is allways a good idea for beginners. But to get maximum results, much higher ppm feedings are needed.


----------



## Teamster6

interesting nc my experience so far with the formula is I found it a little on the hot side with what I was running so backed it off to 20% light. I ran it on everything I had in the stable until..............

I hooked up with this Rooie Marie strain which has been the strangest strain I have ever grown. It really freaked us out. On the week one veg formula the leaves showed a severe phos deficiency and actually turned kind of a royal purple color. We were about to give up on the strain decided to play with it. Called useless and we switched it in veg over to the bloom side of the formula and it snapped right out of it.

Since that time I grew the Rooie again and decided to switch over to the lucas formula. Never had any problems with the strain on the lucas. Thing I liked about the lucas formula as it does not change and you dont have to use the grow.

The water here was so crazy I could mix either formula with the gh and let it stand before adjusting ph and it would never change. Didnt buffer at all so I started just mixing it knocking the ph down and go to feeding.

t6


----------



## NorCalHal

Strain does make a difference for sure. I am a little crazy and feed really high parts, but I do completley flush my medium 1-2 times during flower. Flushing str8 water thru until runoff reads below 500ppm. When I do that, I notice an increse in uptake, they drink a little more , a little faster.
Str8 up, GH rocks! Ther are many possibilities, and many formulas.
Knowing your strain and what she can handle is very important.

I guess I would have to say I follow the lucas formula, as I don't use grow during flower, unless I see a real bad N def. Micro has alot of N, and so does Calmg. When I do need to add N during flower, I tend to yse Verde, as it contains more N then GH Grow.
Don't get me wrong, I use GH grow during veg exclusivly, but to get an extra 1-200 ppm of N during flower, I use Verde.


----------



## Locked

I also don't use the Grow in flower unless I see some signs of N deficiency...and like THG I feed by eye meaning I let the plants tell me when they are hungry or getting too much feed. Jmo


----------



## unlimitedblackx

can i use your useless formula in a RDWC, from what i have read the PPM don't need to be that high in RDWC !! is that right or wrong ?? if right or wrong can someone tell me where i should keep PPM in 8-5gallon bucket's recirculating and a 15 gallon res, arround 45 gallons total ??


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

There is no reason that a rdwc would have a lesser ppm than other types of hydro.


----------



## dman1234

I gotta ask, is it the " Use less formula"

Because the " useless formula" means something 
completely different to me.:rofl:


----------



## ozzydiodude

*Useless* is one of the old old 2006 members here and other places online


----------



## dman1234

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> *Useless* is one of the old old 2006 members here and other places online


 
LOL, I come home from work and hit the bong twice and then post something stupid like that, thanks for clearing that up Ozzy.


----------



## Teamster6

Useless is a Moderator on 420g and opengrow and also one of the Breeder owners of the Fusion Seed Co;

t6


----------



## unlimitedblackx

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> There is no reason that a rdwc would have a lesser ppm than other types of hydro.


 ok thanx !!


----------



## trillions of atoms

I use the lucas formula for veg and bump the form to 40 micro and 120 bloom per gal. and let it climb as high as possible through evap until i see a lil burn on a tip and mark the ppm and then do my addback.

i agree %100  about the ppms needing to be higher in flower....ive found pounding them hard really swells the colas considerably.

as said before, knowing your plants and your setup is key.

great thread!!!!


----------



## unlimitedblackx

40 micro,120 bloom are you talking ml. per gal. here ????? i don't understand..... !!


----------



## Teamster6

its per gallon

t6


----------



## ozzydiodude

yes it ML per gallon


----------



## nouvellechef

40/120? That would be like what, 4k ppm???? 15/15 is 800ppm.


----------



## unlimitedblackx

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> 40/120? That would be like what, 4k ppm???? 15/15 is 800ppm.


I didn't want to say anything but it sounds very high to me aswell !!


----------



## trillions of atoms

I only feed the 40/120 in flower. My veg ebb and flow runs the lucas form over 800 ppm from the start, so ending at a ppm of 1600-1800 will be normal.

The proof is in the pudding unlimitedblackx, big ppm=big buds.


Dont go throwing 1500ppm worth of nutes on some seedlings thinking what I said here will make them huge overnight. You have to let the plants get use to a high feeding schedule. its better to start when they are young ime, the weak and sickly looking get culled asap to make room for the bread and butter. 

I dont waste any time on weak feeders....last thing I want is weak buds.

If i find a strain that will take 8000ppm you can guarentee i will push her past that.  


Ive used the lucas formula and its just not enough for what I do in flower.

Thats just me!


----------



## Teamster6

Hey I wanna try that on these Rooie maries when I 12/1 them. They are the biggest Nute Hogs I have ever grown. ha ha

t6


----------



## unlimitedblackx

My gurl's are going on 3 weeks from seed, 2 weeks in RDWC, 8 of them about 5 inche's tall right now, i bumped up the PPM to 850 this morning, i was at 650 and they are looking great. So i should be raising PPM every week till the tips start showing nute burn and back up a little ?? witch should be anywhere between 1200 and 1800 ??


----------



## trillions of atoms

hey black BX....

unlike what was spoken of hydro methods and ppm recipies, DWC and RDWC have everything to do with PPMs.

knowledge is key here where expierence comes into play. 



I run an ebb and flo with hydroton...my medium is saturated for  less than 10 minutes fully every 4 hrs.

the roots are not in solution 100 percent of the time...therefor can  take the higher ppms in my feed schedule.

being in an rdwc you ppms WILL be lower....

are you feeding with an R/O solution where your ppm start is low??

if so you will DEFINATELY see a lower ppm starting out t hen someone who says they mix this ratio with this  (with the same amt of nutes)in thier tap water and get this high ppm from the get go. 
what you need to look for is any sign of nute burn being in your rdwc.

it could burn at 900 ppm could be 1200...

watch the plants and you will find what they like.


bumping up the ppm will find you pleasure i promise. 


 EDIT- PLEASE UNDERSTAND THAT -     less is more in the beginning!!!!!


----------



## unlimitedblackx

Thanx a lot for the info trillions....Now i understand why some ppl say PPM needs to be lower in RDWC, and that's why i was confused at first about your 40/120....it make's sense now !! Now i hope i didn't kill my baby's with 850 ppm. I'm using tap water from a well with a ppm of arround 70,80 and PH at 7 so that's close to R/O water i suppose !! thanx again and i will watch my girl's very closely !!


----------



## trillions of atoms

if you see a sign of the "claw" its ok....dosing at a higher PPM than normal usually leads to a higher PH in the solution..."the claw" . itcan happen with PH swing from LOW ppm solutions to HIGHN ppm solutions.

Adding bak r/o water will help with burn. ....if you watch them you will know what is to much and what is to little. 


there are tons of probs posted in the sick forum where plants are underfed and are huge and olny need more food!!


Trill


----------



## OGKushman

I have the same strain in separate buckets. Some burned at 1200, some are fine at 1500....Might be more related to root development then strain dependent.

Just a thought*


----------

