# Simple Question about LED



## Wantstogrowbuds (Mar 22, 2015)

May want to swap my HID lights for LED

How many watts of LED will it take me to achieve similar results to a 1000w HID lamp?

I want to cut down the risk of high light bills and heat.

Looking to yield up to 1.5 pound of herb.


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## zem (Mar 22, 2015)

I thought that was a simple question as well, good luck in getting answers, i'll be here waiting with you


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## WeedHopper (Mar 22, 2015)

Good luck getten the truth. Lol what ever ya do,,,dont ask the Companies.


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## sopappy (Mar 22, 2015)

Too many variables. I still have no idea what would be equivalent to my 1K HPS, I just looked at the coverage patterns. They are very much more directional than HID. Other than that, the only things I'm really quite sure of is that the ventilation is much easier and I'm much more comfortable not having a streetlamp in my basement. 
I thought I noticed better penetration and shorter node lengths. The wattage ratings of LEDs isn't what they draw either so you'll save on the bill there  
The other thing I never hear mentioned is that you have to keep replacing those HPS and MH bulbs because they age and deteriorate (ducking and running for cover)


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 23, 2015)

Going to LEDs is not going to save you money on electricity--it will cut down on the heat however.  It was recommended to me by the only person I trust for info on LEDs) that I get 90W per sq ft. when shopping for LEDs.  Beware that there is still a lot of hype (lying) out there by dealers and retailers as to what area a light will cover. Since they actually only use about 1/2 of the actual wattage, you should be using about the same amount of electricity.


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## Wantstogrowbuds (Mar 23, 2015)

Wow, perhaps I'll just stick to HID. Seems pretty expensive comparably. I guess i'll just stick with what works. I just kinda got a little paranoid watching a video on how to not get busted, it stated that these lights have a tendency to catch on fire, definitely can't have that in a duplex. I'm home a lot though so i'll just keep an extra careful eye to make sure everything is tight and no wires get on the floor.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 23, 2015)

What lights tend to catch on fire?  HPS?  Unless you are overtaxing your electrical system (which is easy to do with 1000W lights) or have something extremely flammable lying against the bulb, a 1000W light is way less of a fire risk than a lot of other appliances in your home--stove, dryer, toaster, blow dryers, etc, etc.  Make sure that you are not over-amping your electrical system and you will be fine.

Pssst--don't believe everything you see in videos.  This is what gets people busted:  
#1  Telling other people. Everything else is minor compared to this, but includes not cleaning up growing debris, leaving growing supplies around, and not controlling odor.


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## zem (Mar 23, 2015)

THG i was in this discussion the other day, and we concluded that HPS with air cooled flexible duct can be hazardous because if a bulb explodes, the hot glass can actually penetrate the duct. i am unsure which member stated that experience of his, but it was someone trusty, and it kind of changed my mind about ever making my lights aircooled. i would love a feedback on that from you


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 23, 2015)

Yeah, we've been hashing this over lately. Hence my switch to LED's. Also, I'm drawing (actual draw) 1,000w less in power and have a much more versatile footprint, so you most certainly save money on electric. Also, the thing we've been hashing out.. the more I looked into it, the more I saw massive fire hazard potential. Sure, it's not LIKELY, but the potential is there. 500°+ bulbs in and enclosed space.. I just didn't like it.  

I can't wait to see the first electric bill since the switch. Drawing 1,000w less is wonderful and I'm sure impactful. Also, less pulling on my ventilation, so the power draw is less there as well. It all adds up  

*Not trying to go against the grain per say, just saying it how I'm seeing it lately* :aok:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 23, 2015)

Wantstogrowbuds said:


> May want to swap my HID lights for LED
> 
> How many watts of LED will it take me to achieve similar results to a 1000w HID lamp?
> 
> ...



My $0.02 on this, and that's all it's probably worth since I just started research last month....

I replaced my two 600w fixtures in each tent (1200w a tent - 2400w total between 2 tents), for four 400w fixtures in each tent (1600w a tent - 3200w total between 2 tents)... My draw power on each unit is average of 175 actual draw watts per unit (400w HID equivalent), making my draw from all 8 units 1400w. With my four 600w HPS fixtures, I was pulling 2400w and outputting 2400w... currently I'm pulling 1400w and outputting 3200w. So I'm pulling less in actual electricity, and outputting more in PAR and proper spectrum etc. HPS uses a lot of energy spitting out loads of the spectrum that plants do not even use.  

I switched to cut down on risk of fire, heat, power consumption, and generally looking toward the future of this thing we do. I feel LED's are getting there. If you're replacing 1,000w in, say, a 4x4 area, I would go with 4x Mars Hydro II 400w's, or something equivalent. :aok:


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## zem (Mar 23, 2015)

Doc, do they yield the same or better than hps or less in your new setup compared with the hps one?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 23, 2015)

zem said:


> Doc, do they yield the same or better than hps or less in your new setup compared with the hps one?



We're finding all that out now in my link in my sig; "The Dr's Office" 

Full Hydro
Full LED action 



I will know much more in the next 6 weeks, but so far, I'm exceedingly happy!


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## Grower13 (Mar 23, 2015)

HL should know......... I know he has grown Larry in same conditions with HPS and LED........ if it's not a big difference I'd go LED because of the heat.


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## sopappy (Mar 23, 2015)

zem said:


> THG i was in this discussion the other day, and we concluded that HPS with air cooled flexible duct can be hazardous because if a bulb explodes, the hot glass can actually penetrate the duct. i am unsure which member stated that experience of his, but it was someone trusty, and it kind of changed my mind about ever making my lights aircooled. i would love a feedback on that from you



The only thing worse than heat being exhausted out of your grow room is smoke. Just google "fire leads to grow room discovery". I'm sure it's pretty rare and the growers were careless but it happens.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 23, 2015)

Well about anything _can_ happen.  It is a calculated risk.  If a tree falls on my home while I am away, my home will be checked to make sure that propane, water, and electricity are off.  I could have a heart attack and the paramedics who come into my home could discover my grows.  I could....I could....It is a calculated risk.  We want to be as safe as possible.  But it is generally electrical problems that cause fires and 1000W draw is 1000W draw regardless of what is drawing it.

In over 16 years of running a 1000W HPS in an air cooled hood, I have never ever had a bulb explode.  I believe that this has to be an extremely rare occurrence.   The fires were probably related to inadequate electrical conditions.


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## yooper420 (Mar 23, 2015)

Gotta add a couple of cents worth here. Tried to stay out of this conversation, but drawn to it. Same old thing about how many watts of LED does one need to have a successful grow. With all due respect to PJ, and there is no way I can argue with him, but I have 6 successful grows using 2 Advanced Diamond Series 300 watt LED`s to cover 21 square feet. Sure, I know that my buds could be tighter and maybe more potent with another light added. I know that I`m at the minimum of the company`s recommendation also. My MJ turned out pretty damn good if I do say so myself. No one who has tried it complained.

PS,
As far as fires go, you can never be too safe. Be safe, not sorry. You just sprung ahead, did you change the battery in your smoke detector ?


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 23, 2015)

yooper420 said:


> Gotta add a couple of cents worth here. Tried to stay out of this conversation, but drawn to it. Same old thing about how many watts of LED does one need to have a successful grow. With all due respect to PJ, and there is no way I can argue with him, but I have 6 successful grows using 2 Advanced Diamond Series 300 watt LED`s to cover 21 square feet. Sure, I know that my buds could be tighter and maybe more potent with another light added. I know that I`m at the minimum of the company`s recommendation also. My MJ turned out pretty damn good if I do say so myself. No one who has tried it complained.
> 
> PS,
> As far as fires go, you can never be too safe. Be safe, not sorry. You just sprung ahead, did you change the battery in your smoke detector ?



Oh indeed, then your genetics are good, that's what that means  You can grow great bud that's floppy as a wet noodle!  

On a side note, get that other light (or two)! :aok: hah


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## P Jammers (Mar 24, 2015)

Strain - Huojin which is a clone only from me.

Vegged 21 days, flowered 62 total of 90 days including cuts rooting.

Total yield - 77 grams
Grown with 1/6th of 350 watt light 58 watts
Grams per watt 1.3275

Obviously not the rule, but what can be done once one knows exactly how to speak to ones plant.

View attachment h1.gif


View attachment h2.gif


View attachment h3.gif


I designed the tech in the light I flowered this with almost four years ago. I see a lot of people say on the net say "LED's are getting there". 

Still cracks me up, but at least LED's are talked about on here more. 

To the original question. 

To replace a 1000 watt HID use roughly half the wattage, so 500 watts roughly. 460 to be exact. Just keep in mind you want to use more- smaller fixtures over larger more powerful [heat making] ones.


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## yooper420 (Mar 24, 2015)

Beautiful, just a beautiful girl. Proof positive that LED`s are here and now. My results are not up to PJ`s by any stretch of the imagination. I do agree that several smaller lights are better to have then one big one. My present grow is using LED`s from germination to harvest. The plants are 10 days old. Planted 18 seeds, got 18 sprouts.


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## sopappy (Mar 24, 2015)

P Jammers said:


> Strain - Huojin which is a clone only from me.
> 
> Vegged 21 days, flowered 62 total of 90 days including cuts rooting.
> 
> ...



Pretty pictures indeed!
When you say half the wattage, do you mean the stated wattage of the LED or the actual draw? As I understand it, they do not (and should not) run flat out.. ie 3 watt LEDs don't actually use 3 watts (by design)


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## P Jammers (Mar 24, 2015)

sopappy said:


> Pretty pictures indeed!
> When you say half the wattage, do you mean the stated wattage of the LED or the actual draw? As I understand it, they do not (and should not) run flat out.. ie 3 watt LEDs don't actually use 3 watts (by design)



I'm only ever talking actual draw. Super important, and a good question.

Otherwise, the listed wattage can say whatever they want, and many of them do. In fact most list what the wattage of the total LED diodes are in total which is very miss leading to most.

The worst part is then they tell you that they are the equivalent of whatever HID they want to throw out there. 

If not for anything else, I tip my hat to California Light Works for getting the correct information out there and I feel made other new comer LED companies follow suit.

In a not to far distant past, companies weren't even telling you what the lights draw was...


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## sopappy (Mar 24, 2015)

P Jammers said:


> I'm only ever talking actual draw. Super important, and a good question.
> 
> Otherwise, the listed wattage can say whatever they want, and many of them do. In fact most list what the wattage of the total LED diodes are in total which is very miss leading to most.
> 
> ...



I bought early and paid through the nose for mine. I looked more at the pattern, and had no idea what would be comparable in wattage. No matter, I wanted LEDs. When I stuck my wattage checker thingie on it, I was royally ticked off because yup, they just multiplied 3W x number of LEDs and stuck a label on it.


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## sopappy (Mar 24, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Well about anything _can_ happen.  It is a calculated risk.  If a tree falls on my home while I am away, my home will be checked to make sure that propane, water, and electricity are off.  I could have a heart attack and the paramedics who come into my home could discover my grows.  I could....I could....It is a calculated risk.  We want to be as safe as possible.  But it is generally electrical problems that cause fires and 1000W draw is 1000W draw regardless of what is drawing it.
> 
> In over 16 years of running a 1000W HPS in an air cooled hood, I have never ever had a bulb explode.  I believe that this has to be an extremely rare occurrence.   The fires were probably related to inadequate electrical conditions.



Yup, I get a tad melodramatic about fire but that's just because I am not in a single family house on it's own lot. If I came home to fire, well, I'd rather not go there. 
And of course _you're absolutely right_ about how unlikely I'd get discovered that way. I have a vistor who's a friggin' bloodhound, every time he comes in here, he bellows out: "PHEW! what's that? You got a grow op in here?" I wanna smack him but just carry on about how careful I am with my vaporizer and would he please shut the eff up! It's in a locked basement (I can never find the key when somebody wants a tour of the place), panda lined room, can on the exhaust down in to the basement drain. Nobody else coming in here says squat. 
Sometimes I drive through neighborhoods and I recognize that grow room smell, not the same as smoking it, hard to define, but I wouldn't vent through a can out on to a sidewalk for example. Like you say, smell, loose lips and garbage... I sometimes run out to the garbage truck pretending I'm late and toss it in myself but even that is odd enough. Thank gawd for the actual smoke itself or I'd be a total basket case.


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## zem (Mar 25, 2015)

sopappy said:


> Yup, I get a tad melodramatic about fire but that's just because I am not in a single family house on it's own lot. If I came home to fire, well, I'd rather not go there.
> And of course _you're absolutely right_ about how unlikely I'd get discovered that way. I have a vistor who's a friggin' bloodhound, every time he comes in here, he bellows out: "PHEW! what's that? You got a grow op in here?" I wanna smack him but just carry on about how careful I am with my vaporizer and would he please shut the eff up! It's in a locked basement (I can never find the key when somebody wants a tour of the place), panda lined room, can on the exhaust down in to the basement drain. Nobody else coming in here says squat.
> Sometimes I drive through neighborhoods and I recognize that grow room smell, not the same as smoking it, hard to define, but I wouldn't vent through a can out on to a sidewalk for example. Like you say, smell, loose lips and garbage... I sometimes run out to the garbage truck pretending I'm late and toss it in myself but even that is odd enough. Thank gawd for the actual smoke itself or I'd be a total basket case.



with time, I got used to having my grow close to neighbors without me worrying at all. the entry of my basement is on a common stairway, and when i go in there i would keep the door open and light on, this looks so much more normal than seeing me getting out of a dark basement, and I have tools and stuff that are the perfect excuse for a guy to spend some free time there. I have had people go in with no problems, I feed their curiosity early on and get it done with, they think they know whats in the basement, and don't want to go there again. I actually get foreign workers to go in my growroom and work there when my plants are out, and they are ignorant clueless poor people and they could not tell what they are building, and when they see my veggies seeds sprouting in my cloning chamber, they think that this is an indoor nursery for my veggies greenhouse. IMO paranoia is another reason that people are suspicious, like "neighbors keep to themselves", well if I had to close up on myself and be paranoid all the time, then i'd rather not grow. I always treated mj like wat it was, a plant. my first ever grow was on an open roof, i was still at school, i took my shots and just placed them in huge buckets up there, a lot of people saw it, some commented on it, but i pretended that its just some bird feed residues that sprouted, i never cared less if cops would know and it just passed and was harvested with no issues.


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## sopappy (Mar 25, 2015)

zem said:


> with time, I got used to having my grow close to neighbors without me worrying at all. the entry of my basement is on a common stairway, and when i go in there i would keep the door open and light on, this looks so much more normal than seeing me getting out of a dark basement, and I have tools and stuff that are the perfect excuse for a guy to spend some free time there. I have had people go in with no problems, I feed their curiosity early on and get it done with, they think they know whats in the basement, and don't want to go there again. I actually get foreign workers to go in my growroom and work there when my plants are out, and they are ignorant clueless poor people and they could not tell what they are building, and when they see my veggies seeds sprouting in my cloning chamber, they think that this is an indoor nursery for my veggies greenhouse. IMO paranoia is another reason that people are suspicious, like "neighbors keep to themselves", well if I had to close up on myself and be paranoid all the time, then i'd rather not grow. I always treated mj like wat it was, a plant. my first ever grow was on an open roof, i was still at school, i took my shots and just placed them in huge buckets up there, a lot of people saw it, some commented on it, but i pretended that its just some bird feed residues that sprouted, i never cared less if cops would know and it just passed and was harvested with no issues.



:shocked:


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## sopappy (Apr 1, 2015)

P Jammers said:


> ---trimmed ---
> 
> To replace a 1000 watt HID use roughly half the wattage, so 500 watts  roughly. 460 to be exact. Just keep in mind you want to use more-  smaller fixtures over larger more powerful [heat making] ones.



If I use the actual wattage figure, for LEDs, do i still need 35 - 50 w per sq ft ?  (or can i halve that too, 17 -25 w)


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## Joe420Camel (Apr 1, 2015)

P Jammers said:


> Keeping it real the 90 watt number is for sure the high side of things and crush HPS square foot for square foot.
> Most of my areas are at 60 watts PSF range and do at and above 1GPW
> 
> The 90 watts per square foot that everyone is starting to use is a little misleading, so please let me clarify.
> ...



Shoot for as close to 60w (or more) DRAW wattage per square foot as you can afford to.



P Jammers said:


> I'm only ever talking actual draw. Super important, and a good question.
> 
> Otherwise, the listed wattage can say whatever they want, and many of them do.
> In fact most list what the wattage of the total LED diodes are in total which is very miss leading to most.



PJ usually refers to DRAW wattage #'s  as its the only way we can try to compare different fixtures from different manufacturers.
:48:


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## Wantstogrowbuds (Apr 1, 2015)

Would a 300w LED light be good for like 1 mega plant in a closet? In three different closets of the house!


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## sopappy (Apr 4, 2015)

Joe420Camel said:


> Shoot for as close to 60w (or more) DRAW wattage per square foot as you can afford to.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Joe420Camel (Apr 4, 2015)

LOL 90 is what some of us NUTS shoot for :stoned:

the thing is there is tent growing and then ROOM growing
tents focus "all" the light, rooms... don't

us "small timers" in tents can use a bit less wattage since we aren't loosing as much as the 
bigger grow's room does


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## sopappy (Apr 5, 2015)

Wantstogrowbuds said:


> Would a 300w LED light be good for like 1 mega plant in a closet? In three different closets of the house!



You should see what the lads are doing around here with single plants under 400W HIDs. Check out the grow threads. You will be amazed at what some of these guys can get from one seed.

Sorry about waylaying your thread like that, it seemed relevant though. 
 3 separate closets sounds like a ventilation nightmare. I'm starting to think I should've gone with tents.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Apr 5, 2015)

sopappy said:


> I'm starting to think I should've gone with tents.



Still can, can't you? :aok:


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## WeedHopper (Apr 5, 2015)

What is the Draw to the LEDs? Is it the lack of heat or what? I mean ive seen some nice grows dont get me wrong,,,ive just never seen the nice Big Dence Buds like ive seen with HPS.
 Ive done T5 Grows  that compare to what ive seen with LEDs so far,,so i was just woundering what the upshot to LEDS are. And dont get mad,,im just curious. 
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=819918&postcount=19


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## Kraven (Apr 5, 2015)

I'm here for the answer myself


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## P Jammers (Apr 5, 2015)

WeedHopper said:


> What is the Draw to the LEDs? Is it the lack of heat or what? I mean ive seen some nice grows dont get me wrong,,,ive just never seen the nice Big Dence Buds like ive seen with HPS.
> Ive done T5 Grows  that compare to what ive seen with LEDs so far,,so i was just woundering what the upshot to LEDS are. And dont get mad,,im just curious.
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=819918&postcount=19



There are several draws. Half the power = half the cost to flower and veg your plants. 

Plants have far less stretch under LED compared to HID lighting.

Because LED light feeds the plants unlike HID lighting, less food is used to grow your plants.

Cooling a room can be done much easier and no more running exhaust fans cooling lights. 

View attachment 1.jpg


View attachment 2.jpg


View attachment 3.jpg


View attachment 4.jpg


View attachment 5.jpg


And now you can't say you haven't seen any dense nugs of any size.

When I am on the average pulling 1.5 to 1.7 GPW on plants vegged 14 to 21 days it would be silly to even consider every using HID lighting again for me. 

I never got these numbers with HID, and if anyone out there claims to do better, then lets see it.

I've got well over 100 strains documented under LED now if you'd like to see more pics. Everything Hammy does now is LED as well and he does not have a year under his belt quite yet. 

Oh, I did forget one important thing about LED's.

They make trics go crazy.

View attachment 9.jpg


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## WeedHopper (Apr 5, 2015)

Oh theres no doubt those are nice buds,,,but i still dont see the Big Dence Buds i see from HPS. Ive seen HUGE BUDS from HPS,,,have not seen that from LEDS yet. Thoses are nice,,,but nowhere near as big as what i have seen with HPS. Im not saying your not growing nice Girls,,cause they are pretty. But most look Fluffy to me, compared to what ive seen here at MP with HPS grows. Plus the cost of LED light systems is what crosses my eyes.
I do think you guys grow the best looking Buds ive seen grown by LEDS .

Found this,,not sure how acurate. 

Watt-for-watt, most grow lights give off about a similar amount of heat. Some lights are more efficient than others (for example HPS is more efficient than CFLs, and will produce more light and less heat for the same amount of electricity), but when it comes to determining heat, wattage is a good way to generally estimate how much heat is going to be generated in your grow room.

That means that 400W of CFLs will produce about the same amount of heat as 400W worth of HPS or LEDs. One of the big differences is how each of the types of lights dissipate extra heat.

While some MH/HPS lights are installed as a naked bulb under a reflector (cheap &#8220;wing&#8221; style HPS hoods), MH/HPS lights are often encased within an enclosed hood that allows the grower to hook up the light system directly with ducting so an exhaust fan can be used to expel the heat.

LED models are usually built with heatsinks and/or built-in fans to help disperse the heat evenly without concentrating any heat directly on the plants. Even with these extra bells and whistles, it&#8217;s still important to use an exhaust system to get rid of extra heat unless it&#8217;s naturally cold in the grow room.

CFLs unfortunately don&#8217;t have any built-in way to disperse heat because they were not originally intended to be grow lights (or used in huge numbers like they are in most CFL grows). With CFLs, the main way to deal with heat is to keep the grow very small or disperse heat with an exhaust system.

If a claim about grow lights sounds too good to be true... it probably is!

Warning! Be wary of crazy claims! 
If something sounds too good to be true about a grow light, it probably is!

Especially when it comes to LED grow lights, there is a lot of misinformation out there. The truth is that when it comes to growing cannabis, LED grow lights are not currently more efficient than an HPS light when it comes to yields/watt. 400W of HPS will almost always get more yields from cannabis than 400W of LED.

Yields & Potency

When it comes to improving your yields, the most efficient grow light is an HPS. When I say "efficient," I mean the amount of usable light produced for the amount of electricity needed. Because HPS lights are so efficient, using an HPS light during your cannabis flowering/budding phase is the fastest way to improve your yields.

*When it comes to improving your potency, LED grow lights seem to help the plant produce more trichomes and bring out the natural odor of the plant, and many growers believe the overall quality and potency of buds is increased when using LED lights during the flowering stage.

A combination of HPS and LEDs seems to provide some of the best benefits of both - big yields plus high quality and potency. This may be because a combination of HPS plus LEDs more closely mimics the autumn sunlight that cannabis plants are exposed to in the wild*.

A recent cannabis harvest - buds are drying on racks

Cannabis plants can use a lot of light, and this upgrade guide will help you figure out the best way to upgrade your grow lights in your budget, but there comes a point when adding more light just doesn&#8217;t increase yields any more.

Please note: The further your grow light from the plants, the less powerful the brightness but the greater and area the light will cover. The key is finding the right type of lights that give you both the coverage and brightness you need to achieve your goals.

At some point, cannabis hits a saturation point and just can&#8217;t use any more light. This usually happens when a grower has more than 100W of grow lights per square foot. This also can happen when the grower keeps powerful lights very close to plants. In this case, you can actually increase yields even further by sealing your entire grow area supplementing with CO2.

Just remember that adding extra CO2 to your grow room is a waste of time and money unless you&#8217;ve hit the maximum amount of light that your plants can use, and you will have to completely seal off your grow area (so it&#8217;s basically airtight) in order to supplement with CO2 effectively. It&#8217;s important to note that while supplementing with CO2 may increase your yields, it does not affect the quality or potency of your buds


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## Dr. Green Fang (Apr 5, 2015)

> That means that 400W of CFLs will produce about the same amount of heat as 400W worth of HPS or LEDs. One of the big differences is how each of the types of lights dissipate extra heat.



Just tossing this out there. 400w of LED are worth around 400w of HPS... in marketing speak. 400w LED is labeled as such, and most 400w LED's have 175-220 Actual Draw Power (a term now being used by LED companies in their specs) Actual Draw is all that matters when considering LED. They mark it at 400w because they are basically claiming it is an equivalent to 400w HID in delivery, but they really only draw half of that (there's your half of savings on your electric) 

Check this out, I replaced my 1,200watts (2 fixtures) of HPS for 1,600watts equivalent (4 fixtures) but I'm now only ACTUALLY drawing about  700watts from my outlet. You see, that's 175w x 4 fixtures = end result, and now that's with 4 (led) fixtures instead of 2 (hps) fixtures, so my footprint is now way more versatile! I can move my levels more precisely and have much better direct lighting coverage with about half the actual draw ($$ saved) 

Also, my fixtures aren't even close to as hot as the HPS was running. I was tentative too WH, but after going balls deep and buying 8 fixtures, I'm very happy with my choice...and now I'm even looking to sell my HPS fixtures I do believe.  

I did week 5-8 with LED's on my last run, and they are just as dense as the densest thing I ever ran with HPS. Currently, I have a run that will have had all 8 weeks under LED, and they are just over 4 weeks in. Something of notice...



> Oh, I did forget one important thing about LED's.
> They make trics go crazy



^^No lie here! I was impressed to see trichs growing to the TIPS of the large fan leaves...some the size of my hand, with trichs going right to near the ends! Very excited to see what happens here with my last 4 weeks, but so far I'm very much impressed with LED's. 

Not trying to nay say, or "side" a way or not.. but my current testings (detailed in my Dr's Office) have shown some amazing things, and I can't wait to see where else I can go from here.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Apr 5, 2015)

> Warning! Be wary of crazy claims!
> If something sounds too good to be true about a grow light, it probably is!



I  very much agree with this  There's some crazy *** companies out there!!


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## WeedHopper (Apr 5, 2015)

How much are those 4 LED fixtures?
And I am not apposed to Evolution of Growing Lights,,as long as it involves,,Evolving.
If they ever bring the prices down i might give it a try after i see a side by side that shows Evolution.


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## WeedHopper (Apr 5, 2015)

Maybe I just need to see a REAL side by side done here at MP,,with everything is exactly the same( Space,Medium,Nutes and TLC) except Lighting of course,,,and nobody jacking the HPS grow whilst nobody can see. lol


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## Dr. Green Fang (Apr 5, 2015)

Hah  

I bought 8 fixtures and got them all for $1,350. Sara will sell them for $168 if you directly to her (or anyone else for that matter from Mars Hydro, but I deal with Sara) for the Mars II 400w fixtures (175w Actual Draw) 

So 4 fixtures would be rough $675 with free shipping...and that shipping is silly fast! Myself, and HighBrixMMJ and a few others recent purchased, and we all noticed a crazy fast shipping! I got mine in 2 days.  

I would do a side by side, but honestly can not see the point in running a hot light source, that's an extreme fire hazard and will pull 400w more of electric.. I'm kinda "over" HPS really. I was exceedingly scared and worried about doing this, and went head first when I filled my two tents with LED's but it seems to have been well worth it!


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## Dr. Green Fang (Apr 5, 2015)

The thing with the Mars Hydro stuff, is.. you're not buying timmers in lights, and dimmers for diodes, and remotes etc etc. You're not even buying a darn power switch! You're buying a decent quality light with no frills. With other companies, the initial cost can be really pricey and there's lots of bells and whistles you don't need that jacks the price way up. Some of them are more worth it than others, but there certainly is a sea of LED crap out there! 

PJ is my skipper in that essence. hah! :rofl:


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## Joe420Camel (Apr 5, 2015)

the only part I have issue saying/relaying/conveying is the: 1/2 wattage part.
I live the 60or90w/sqft  so I pass that on freely.

by my logic, if "industry standard" is 1000w or 1200w(2x600) HPS in a 4x4 tent and LEDs grow in 1/2 the wattage, then a 500-600w DRAW LED should grow a 4x4 tent.  (600/16 = 37.5 w/sqft)
But if I do the math the other way... 
4x4 = 16 sqft  
16x60=960  (edited out the 90w/sqft as we are talking INSIDE a tent and NOT room)
Thus a 4x4 tent should have 960w DRAW LED... (not even close to 1/2 of 1000 or 1200)


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## Dr. Green Fang (Apr 5, 2015)

Now you have to dip into spectrum and PAR beyond that Joe :aok:


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## Joe420Camel (Apr 5, 2015)

that's fine and I'd love to (will) learn all that too  
but I can't see past my "logic road-block" posted above.

So lets assume the quality of the LED light is better (not disagreeing just taking a logic step) that still does not make 960 one half of 1000.

and if we keep looking @ it from the "1/2 watt" side, then the higher quality LED light should do what a 1000w HPS does with 500w so why should I suggest some one get 900+ watts of LED to grow in a 4x4 tent?
(4x4=16 x60= 960)

:48:


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## Dr. Green Fang (Apr 5, 2015)

> but I can't see past my "logic road-block" posted above.



It's like when I quit smoking cigs. I just.. didn't put the cig to my mouth. 

Well, just.. tell yourself you want to see past your logic road-block and then lemme know what you gaze upon!   



> So lets assume the quality of the LED light is better (not disagreeing just taking a logic step) that still does not make 960 one half of 1000.



It doesn't have to, I believe is the answer here 
I'm sure PJ can shed proper light on this


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## WeedHopper (Apr 5, 2015)

Like I said,,those babies gonna have to drop down in price before i try them. And again,, i will have to see a side beside done by someone i trust,,such as,,lets say,,,,,,ME,,,,,,before i can see if it is the Evolution of Grow Lights,, or just another stab at it. And that aint gonna happen cause I aints gots no money for them expensive bastages. lol

I will say i love my Led lighting i use inside and outside my home. I have replaced all my lighting at home with LEDS because it saves me money,,THATS PROVEN,,,and the lighting is great for reading and such. Did the same thing yrs ago with CFL over incandescent,,,saved money.
But reading and growing is two different things. I will just have to watch you guys grow with LEDS,, and show me a Great Big Huge Dense Ace Bud.
 And then,, i will still have to grow with HPS,,cause i cants afford those expensive Bastages. :rofl:
Besides my Wife will get mad ifen i cant afford to put Gas in her Jag.

:48:


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## next (Apr 5, 2015)

Lol, I think u just need to drop 5 bills, and get some led grow lights. That's the only way, kinda like santa clause, seeing is believing 

I used HPS in the past, my grows were good everyone was amazed..

Now I have LED's, and my mind is blown.. it was a scary leap, but the plants love it and u can tell.. The only reason I can see that you would get less yield, is because you have to relearn what you know about grow lights. You may have your lights too close, or too far away.

I have grown some buds u can't squeeze with your fingers, and I am an amateur with some led's, so they can be dense. And the trichs like they all say.. 

I think my leap into the led lighting has turned my mediocre plants, into photo quality amazing beautiful sticky icky icky plants 

I say, do it!!


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## next (Apr 5, 2015)

This is from an autoflower plant that I was going to throw away because it was lagging very far behind the others, it was sick and just had a rough life, but still on a sick plant, led's can grow some big dense nugs. 

View attachment 20150218_084011.jpg


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## WeedHopper (Apr 5, 2015)

Yes but did you quit smoking Ciggs? lol

Nice Bud. Im gonna keep watchen you guys,,yall are doing a great job with those LEDS.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 4, 2015)

Okay, so I am looking at 700-800W of LED to replace a 400W HPS...I am not seeing where the savings in electricity is going to happen?


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## WeedHopper (May 4, 2015)

Savings is what i would need to afford Leds. Lol


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## Dr. Green Fang (May 4, 2015)

You're not going to replace 400watts of HPS with 800watts of LED... if you're talking EQUIVALENT. Or are you saying you're about ready to upgrade from 400watts of HPS to about 800watts of LED? I'm confused here THG. 

If you want to replace a 400watt HPS light, use something that has about 175-225watts of actual draw power... that's about equivalent. And in that regard, you save nearly half, since draw wattage is half. 
Also, and you're not talking about this but since we're past the whole "confused about draw" part (we're past that ya? hah) you save on about half or MORE for nutes. Do not run your nutes the same level as you have, I don't care how well known your strain is. I'm 110% proof that you need to heed that warning! lol.. 

So.. save almost 1/2 on electricity and a little more than half on nutrients used.


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## zem (May 5, 2015)

you forgot to conclude "and yield the same or better" part there... thats what i would like to talk about, g/w ratio...


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 5, 2015)

Yes, I am looking to replace a 400W MH/HPS with 700-800W of Led...or close to 400 working watts.  That is what I was told that I would need.


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## zem (May 5, 2015)

thg im curious if thats what you need then why are you still considering this? :confused2:


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## Joe420Camel (May 5, 2015)

.

no bulbs to buy
less cooling (fan watts)
less nutes used 

better weed(?)

cool purple glow 


off the top of my :fly: head
:48:


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## zem (May 5, 2015)

Joe420Camel said:


> .
> 
> no bulbs to buy
> less cooling (fan watts)
> ...


i need heat for 9 months per year. bulbs are cheap. my ferts are cents in cost... if im not saving electric im not buying led just to have a cool blinding purple light lol i wonder if this LED hype will ever end with a conclusion?


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## MR1 (May 5, 2015)

Probably better off sticking with hid Zem, unless higher quality bud is enough for you.


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## P Jammers (May 5, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Yes, I am looking to replace a 400W MH/HPS with 700-800W of Led...or close to 400 working watts.  That is what I was told that I would need.


Not sure who told you that, but you have it backwards. If you are replacing 400 watts of HPS you need 200 watts of LED power.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 6, 2015)

PJ, you are the one who told me that I need 700-800W for a 3 x 3 space.  Per your recommendations, I am looking at a 700W Mars II or 2 400W Mars II, like DGF is running.


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## P Jammers (May 6, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> PJ, you are the one who told me that I need 700-800W for a 3 x 3 space.  Per your recommendations, I am looking at a 700W Mars II or 2 400W Mars II, like DGF is running.


Where did I say a Mars 700 delivers 700 watts of power? They are actually only 300 watts. I may have said tyo get the MarII700, but I never said use 700 watts. Huge difference!!!!!!

If you read what is stated on this very thread I clearly said



P Jammers said:


> To replace a 1000 watt HID use roughly half the wattage, so 500 watts roughly. 460 to be exact. Just keep in mind you want to use more- smaller fixtures over larger more powerful [heat making] ones.



I have stated more times than once that when we talk LED power we always need to use power consumption as a baseline. 

I did just go back a re read your response and you did add around 400 to the post, but that fixture is closer to 300 not 400.

If you had originally asked me what can I use to replace a 400w watt HPS I would have said a LED that uses 200watts to function.

The delivery is just very confusing and made me think you thought you need to double your wattage when in fact you are using around half.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 6, 2015)

No and I did not say that.  I am looking at approx. the same wattage using a 400W HPS as 2 400W Mars II or a single Mars II 700.  The specs say up to 380 watts, so while not fully 400W, it is not anywhere close to 1/2 the wattage.  And 9 sq ft x 60 (working) watts is 540W, so even the 700W and the 2 400W look they would be underpowered if we use 60W per sq ft.  I am just confused.....So _can_ I replace my 400W HPS with 200 working watts of LED?


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## P Jammers (May 6, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> No and I did not say that.  I am looking at approx. the same wattage using a 400W HPS as 2 400W Mars II or a single Mars II 700.  The specs say up to 380 watts, so while not fully 400W, it is not anywhere close to 1/2 the wattage.  And 9 sq ft x 60 (working) watts is 540W, so even the 700W and the 2 400W look they would be underpowered if we use 60W per sq ft.  I am just confused.....So _can_ I replace my 400W HPS with 200 working watts of LED?


From what I can see, and I just went back and re read your PM is that you are changing up your room size each time this pops up.

You told me you were using a 2.5 x 2.5 tent which is 6.25 feet. Now it is 3x3 9 sf.

You changed the game by almost 180 watts by the change you made. At the original size you would have needed about 360 watts.

You now need the estimated 540, but that is by your doing with the change you made.

Your 400 was never even brought to my attention.

If your goal is to match your old 400 then use 200 watts of LED power and you can expect the same results. If you want to have the chance to achieve better use the 60 watts per foot so long as you are in a tent or have the ability to reflect.


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## 000StankDank000 (May 6, 2015)

Did you win the lottery THG? Going LED sounds pricey


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 7, 2015)

LOL stank--no, I did not, but I have been taking tough jobs in tiny little crawl spaces I never would have otherwise (and eating Ramen) to save money up.  Also, I had a couple of benefactors step forward and offer to help me out and get me "into the 21st century".


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## Joe420Camel (May 7, 2015)

So wait, let me get this straight... hard work, sacrifice and kindness pays off in the 21st century?

who knew?

GL THG
:48:


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## WeedHopper (May 7, 2015)

Cant rob peter to pay paul. Lol
Ill stick with what i can afford,,and it aint Leds. Love the pink color though.


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## sopappy (Jun 23, 2015)

WeedHopper said:


> Cant rob peter to pay paul. Lol
> Ill stick with what i can afford,,and it aint Leds. Love the pink color though.



 I haven't had to replace a bulb since I bought my LEDs and those bulbs were 50 - 100 bucks a pop, sooner or later, LEDs have got to be cheaper. You'll end up hating that colour though, it makes the plants look sick.


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