# How many lumens is too much?



## Skool

Ok, I have been reading where it is advisable that one has at least 5000 lumens per square foot of grow space.

At HTG supplies website they say the following
(source "http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Digital-Greenhouse-600-watt-HPS-Grow-Light.asp"]hXXp://www.htgsupply.com/Product-Digital-Greenhouse-600-watt-HPS-Grow-Light.asp)

"[FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Brand New HIGH OUTPUT 600 watt High Output HPS bulb emits 95,000 lumens - standard 600w HPS bulbs which emit only 72,000 lumens."[/FONT]

Ok, I have noticed that some sites say 90,000 lumens for the 600 watt HPS lamps. So, from there if I were to run two 600 watt HPS lamps in a 4'x4' rooms and I used the figure of 90,000 lumens per lamp that would be 180,000 lumens in 16 square foot of space. That comes up to 11,250 watts per square foot. I know this is not to much because I am reading (right here on this site) where some of yall are doing this.

My question is, how many lumens is too much per square foot? 

If you could get your grow space up to 20,000 lumens per Sq Ft would you be able to produce more buds or better buds or is my thinking flawed?

Thanks for listening to my rookie questions.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Im sure you have sen this "sticky"
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43715

I like the chart that shows the break down of lumes  at diffrent distances...IMO..from your question.."is there too much light"?...yes...Ive ran all sorts of lumes  from 3000sf...to 10k sf....and IMO..artificial lighting can be harful if too much added...and I dont think the stores are talking gardens like ours...but more for vegtables/flowers

take care and be safe


----------



## Skool

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> Im sure you have sen this "sticky"
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43715
> 
> I like the chart that shows the break down of lumes  at diffrent distances...IMO..from your question.."is there too much light"?...yes...Ive ran all sorts of lumes  from 3000sf...to 10k sf....and IMO..artificial lighting can be harful if too much added...and I dont think the stores are talking gardens like ours...but more for vegtables/flowers
> 
> take care and be safe


 
I admit to not having read that yet. Thank you for pointing to it. Going to read ity now


----------



## ishnish

I personally run about 10,000 lumens per sq ft.  I love it.  If I had the technology to try 20,000 L/sq/ft -  I would.  But that's me.  On a side note.. 20,000 might require the same eye protection that welders use..
I bet if you had 20k lumens + 1800ppm CO2 + DWC w/ 30Watts of bubbles per plant.  how did kmk put it??  Kavorki buds the size of a Volkswagen?


----------



## Hushpuppy

I think that level depends a lot on the strain as well. I have 3 strains in the same space(8sqft) under 4 T5s and the Burmese Kush gets light burn when the lights are closer than 12", while the 2 blue strains have grown right to the bulbs and aren't burning a bit. This is just an edgamacated guess but I would think no more than 15KLMs unless the lights are being kept more than 2' away from the plants.


----------



## OGKushman

ISh IIRC "1-1000 watt high pressure sodium, in a room the size of a ****'n telephone booth" 

:rofl:

so yea...like 20k l/sf hahahaa

I run 10-13k and have great success. just have to get the buds swinging a little in the fan so it doesnt develop hot spots. I have been really considering a few SHORT light movers just to keep buds from frying.


----------



## ishnish

OGKushman said:
			
		

> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to OGKushman again.



:holysheep:


----------



## OGKushman

Wait:rofl:

That quote of yours hahahaha it says "OGK must wait to give OGK more rep" :rofl:


----------



## ishnish

OGKushman said:
			
		

> Wait:rofl:
> 
> That quote of yours hahahaha it says "OGK must wait to give OGK more rep" :rofl:



:rofl:  My bad..  My next cut isn't due for two weeks...  and all I have in the meantime is hash...  mistakes are bound to be made..


----------



## OGKushman

ishnish said:
			
		

> :rofl:  My bad..  My next cut isn't due for two weeks...  and all I have in the meantime is hash...  mistakes are bound to be made..


I know how that goes :hubba:

If i could pass you some i would :48:


----------



## PartyBro420

You also need to remember that you're probably looking at the Initial lumens provided by the bulb, over time it will lessen by a substantial amount.

Like for instance according to the mfg the 1kw MH bulbs I have start out with an initial 110,000 lumens, but have a "mean lumen output" of 95,000

Also, I think as long as you keep the conditions correct (temp/humidity/ph etc.) the more light available to the plants the better. Although I'm uncertain as to whether or not MJ has a cap point at which more light just can't help.


----------



## Skool

I want to thank you guys for your answers.

I have started shopping for 600 watt HPS systems. I have been looking at Lumateks digital systems. Fairly pricey but I see where they have 3 year warranties plus a 2 year prorated warranty after that.

Any other manufactures you guys tend to trust?


----------



## ishnish

I have two 400W lumateks that have been holding strong for almost 4 years.  no experience with anything else as of yet.


----------



## Skool

ishnish said:
			
		

> I have two 400W lumateks that have been holding strong for almost 4 years.  no experience with anything else as of yet.


 
Thank you Mr Nish, I am currently viewing on Ebay a Lumatek that claims to be a 400/600/1000 ballast. I think you just run the one bulb, 1000 watt, and just step the power down. Not sure how accurate the step downs would be. 

I have stepped away from the plan of building a room. It looks like I could buy a Secret Jardin tent a lot cheaper than it would be for me to complete a room. It looks as if I could get a 3'x3' tent, a 600 watt lamp with cool tube, a couple of inline can fans and a mini split for a decent price. It would be a good way to start I suppose.

or

a 4'x4' with two 600 watt lamps.


----------



## ishnish

The more the merrier, as long as you keep the temps under control.
Good Luck and I'll keep an eye out for a GJ.


----------



## Skool

ishnish said:
			
		

> The more the merrier, as long as you keep the temps under control.
> Good Luck and I'll keep an eye out for a GJ.


 
Concerning the GJ, I will be going to Alaska in June for some seasonal fishing work. I will not return until late August or Early September. Its a good gig (pun intended) but I will not be able to start a grow until then. The work will also my seed money (another pun) for the grow. I cant wait until then.


----------



## nouvellechef

Get a large hood rather than a cool tube. Magnum xxxl preferably. You only need one inline fan. You dont need a mini split unless your gonna run CO2. Just a waste as the fan sucks the cool air right out. Will it help? Yes. The intial cost and run time will cost alot more. I run harvest pro elites from Sunlight Supply(same maker as xxxl hood). Never had one hiccup.


----------



## dxhydro

ishnish said:
			
		

> The more the merrier, as long as you keep the temps under control.
> Good Luck and I'll keep an eye out for a GJ.


 

Hello!

I'll have to stick with Ishnish on this one. Marijuana is not a shade plant -it wants as much direct sunlight as possible.
If your lights produce more heat than you can disipate, your plants will suffer. There is a temperature point at which the plant will quit growing and use stored energy to keep cool. This can be seen indoors and out when the leaves curl up like a funnel trying to catch any drop of water they can. So if you are running 10Kw, make sure your cooling system can remove that heat.
Supplemental CO2 enrichment not only provides plants with CO2 that enhances the photsynthisis process but also allows you to grow in higher temperatures. Every strain is different and some can grow in hotter climates or conditions than others. Most strains "like" 77f and growth will be adversely effected if the temp rises to around 86f. 
Unless your plants have adequate nutrients and water, lighting beyond a certain level and CO2 enrichment will have little, if any effect.
Marijuana is an amazing plant that can grow at an incredible pace in the right conditions. It needs fuel, in the form of nutrients to process light and needs light to process the fuel into sticky, sweet resins whose purpose is to gather pollen to reproduce and spread the happiness (which, in nature is the plants main function).
It's the growers job to help spread the happiness!
-DX


----------



## ishnish

Skool said:
			
		

> Concerning the GJ, I will be going to Alaska in June for some seasonal fishing work. I will not return until late August or Early September. Its a good gig (pun intended) but I will not be able to start a grow until then. The work will also my seed money (another pun) for the grow. I cant wait until then.



Alaska is definitely the place to be in the summer time. 
Just look out for the debris from Japan while you on the water.  and when your on the land, good buds shouldn't be hard to come by either. :hubba:


----------



## ishnish

dxhydro said:
			
		

> Hello!
> 
> I'll have to stick with Ishnish on this one. Marijuana is not a shade plant -it wants as much direct sunlight as possible....
> -DX


Nice to have ya on board DX.  :48:
All this talk about lumens makes me want to experiment!! :icon_smile:

I'm thinking of a 2x2x7 box with one 600w or 1000w....
maybe several of these boxes...  then get a strain that can handle mass lumens...  then breed it to handle even more lumens!!! 
Let's make a stain that thrives in 50,000 L/sq ft! :hubba:
Screw time lapse photos, I want to watch it grow in real time!!


----------



## Roddy

ishnish said:
			
		

> Nice to have ya on board DX.  :48:
> All this talk about lumens makes me want to experiment!! :icon_smile:
> 
> I'm thinking of a 2x2x7 box with one 600w or 1000w....
> maybe several of these boxes...  then get a strain that can handle mass lumens...  then breed it to handle even more lumens!!!
> Let's make a stain that thrives in 50,000 L/sq ft! :hubba:
> Screw time lapse photos, I want to watch it grow in real time!!



No thanks, I pay enough in elec already....


----------



## akhockey

I run an aircooled 1000 in a 3x3 and figure its a hair over 14k lumes per ft squared. I noticed a huge improvement in yield in some autos that I crossed awhile back. I think there does get a point when too much light is harmful though. Even when there arent any hot spots I get some bleaching when they get too close to the light. I am lucky enough to rarely if ever having to fight high temps in my shed. I'm usually worried about getting more heat in there.


----------



## SquidyPacheco

ishnish said:
			
		

> Nice to have ya on board DX.  :48:
> All this talk about lumens makes me want to experiment!! :icon_smile:
> 
> I'm thinking of a 2x2x7 box with one 600w or 1000w....
> maybe several of these boxes...  then get a strain that can handle mass lumens...  then breed it to handle even more lumens!!!
> Let's make a stain that thrives in 50,000 L/sq ft! :hubba:
> Screw time lapse photos, I want to watch it grow in real time!!



Edit: You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to ishnish again. 


Lol I kinda think of it in the other way .. lets create a strain that can handle very low lumens and still produce well.. that way we can spend less on electric,, and outdoor growers could plant in better coverd areas.. I like your thinking tho.. if you want a trait in your MJ breed it in...  I actually would like to know if there are any strains that preform at a lower lumen output then normal..

Aloha
Squidy


----------



## Roddy

If someone really wanted to get creative with their breeding, a plant that sheds all it's shade and sugar leaves before harvest would be great....no ore trimming!


----------



## Skool

Roddy said:
			
		

> If someone really wanted to get creative with their breeding, a plant that sheds all it's shade and sugar leaves before harvest would be great....no ore trimming!


 
Only if the plant will seperate the sugar leaves for you so they are easy to collect for hash making. :ignore:


----------

