# flushing before harvest?



## krazycraker

how do you flush yur plant before you harvest if your plant is in miracle grow, i was told to flush it 2 weeks before harvest to get rid of chemical taste, but the soil has everything in it, so how do i flush it?:ccc:


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## choking_victim

with plain, filtered, ph set water. no nutes


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## rhenderson

You flush 3 times the container amount. Meaning if you have a 3 gallon container then you run 9 gallons of water through it and stop giving it nutes. The reason is that it will wash away the chemicals and will remove the harsh taste at harvest. If you dont flush then when you harvest and cure you will have potent weed that taste as harsh as $60/ounce commercial bunk


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## krazycraker

it will wash away that chemical taste, i dont really feed them any nutes figured miracle grow was enough, i did give it nutes a few weeks ago, so i still need to flush it even though all the late release ferts are still in it, will it still have that chemical taste?


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## onelove420

when ur flushing it the plant uses the last of the nutes in the soil and leaves to survive.but i dunno with miracle grow flush 3 weeks prior to harvest


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## Growdude

Flushing is a myth, all i know is my weed tastes smooth and tasty without flushing.
I grow hydro and have never had chemical tasting weed, no sparks or any other myth you have ever heard.

I do taper down on nutes as harvest time is near but never did a 2 week flush IMO the last few weeks produce THC the most and there is no need to starve a plant at this stage.

Taste is very strain and cure dependent.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

heres a tip, when you flush.  Flush the plants, then wait 2-3 days before harvest.
 if you flush, then immeidately harvest, it will take longer for your buds to dry out.
  If u harvest 2-3 days later, the soil should be dry, and the plant will not have so much water in it

 Imho flushing is not a myth, you do not want a chemical taste in your buds.
  and yes taste is strain related, but you can alter the taste in many ways. Ex. Mollassas...this gives you sweet tasting buds.
 Im a big fan of using mollassas. Taste is also soil related, dont you ever smoke bud that is very Earthly tasting??? thats because it was properly flushed, and you almost get a dirt taste...but dont get me wrong, i loooooove the dirt taste of weed. it seems so natural.


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## krazycraker

mollassas? how do you use mollassas? do you just put in the soil, in with water? and how much? also on my first two grows i used miracle grow and did not flush the first was really nice, the second tasted like straight up MG but i figured that had alot to do with my wife pulling the plants and shaking them upside down to get dirt off, shoke all that dirt into buds, i was crushed noooooooo :hairpull: but anyway im going to change evrything over to foxfarm on next grow thanks for help everyone:smoke1:


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

ya Black Mollassas, you mix in 1-2 table spoons into a gallon of water.
 you should first mix the 2 table  spoons of mollassas with a small ammount of hot water, so it disolves.

 Here, found this if you want to know more http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5149


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## Stoney Bud

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> Imho flushing is not a myth, you do not want a chemical taste in your buds.


 
There is no scientific testing of any kind that suggests flushing does anything to the taste of MJ.

If anyone has found any, I'd sure love to read it. So far, all I've ever seen is "He said, She said" type of pro-flushing comments.

It sounds like a good story, but after 40 years of growing weed, I've never seen any difference between flushed weed and weed that hasn't been flushed.

In a real double blind test, I don't think anyone would know the difference.

The same with the Molasses thing. Plants don't absorb sugar. Molasses only creates a balance in the root area that enables it to absorb nutrients more efficiently. None of the human related "sweetness" from the sugars is in any way absorbed by the plant.

Lots of stories like this are handed down from camp fire type talks. Like ghost stories, they are fun, but mostly just stories.

It won't hurt you, it just won't do anything either. 

I believe flushing to be one of those stories. It just sounds good to humans. Hey, flush all that nasty taste out with copious amounts of water. It's like rinsing your laundry to get soap out.

Sounds good, but sound is all it is.

Flushing makes humans *feel* good. It doesn't do diddly to the plants.

I'll believe that until someone shows me some double blind testing to back it up. Same thing with the Molasses stuff.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

i dont know about flushing for sure, 
 But im possitive that mollassas works, i have tested it my self. my buds always taste better if i use mollassas, and the molassas plants norm. have bigger buds


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## krazycraker

i think i will try the mollassas thing on my next grow ill do one with and one without mollassas and start a journal on them but i dont think that will be till after the holidays


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## lyfr

i flushed my first two grows for only 2days and i didnt taste chem.E&F,rockwool.
                    happy trails


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## jb247

If you grow organically, then there really is no need to flush your plants, but if you are using chemically enhanced nutrients, your finished product will taste of chemicals without a flush. I've seen it happen, and the stuff was nasty tasting.

I use molassas during my flower stage, I do think it improves the flavor of the weed. It also helps me produce bigger buds.

Peace...j.b.


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## Stoney Bud

jb247 said:
			
		

> If you grow organically, then there really is no need to flush your plants, but if you are using chemically enhanced nutrients, your finished product will taste of chemicals without a flush. I've seen it happen, and the stuff was nasty tasting.
> 
> I use molasses during my flower stage, I do think it improves the flavor of the weed. It also helps me produce bigger buds.
> 
> Peace...j.b.


 
Sorry man, I don't believe it. Like I said, when someone finally does a double blind test on it, I'll believe it does something.

I've never flushed a single time. My weed tastes just like anyone else's if they flush or not.

When someone says "I think it", then I don't mind. When someone says something is fact with no real proof, it bothers me.

The "Flushing" thing started from nothing but someones imagination. I've heard a lot about it, but I've seen no side by side, double blind testing that would prove it. Why doesn't someone prove this once in for all?

I mean, I can "say" that I think putting a flashing orange light on my crop for the last twenty days of flowering makes the flowers bigger and makes them taste much, much better, and I can get a great rumor going with a hundred other people swearing it works too, but that's all it is. People "saying" it's true.

I think flushing is one of the biggest, time wasting rumors I've ever seen in the MJ world. It has spread to hundreds of growers that do it just because someone else "says" it's better.

I've had it both ways. I've told people both ways. I've had people swear that the weed I gave them was WAY better than the unflushed weed I gave them next. Neither was flushed. They were both from the same bag.

It's all in your heads!

Peace to you. Do whatever makes you feel good, but please don't try to tell me that it's proven. It isn't.

It's the same thing with the molasses. If I gave any of you a blind test of weeds that had or had not been done with molasses, you wouldn't know which was which.

The only reason you *think* it helps is because you *know* which one has it. Again, it's all in your heads.

Let's start another one; Let's say that putting cigarette ashes in your water will make the weed cure faster. If ten of us say that baloney, within a month, it'll spread to other boards and people will swear to it.

hehe, I love it.

I've been growing weed for more than 40 years. If it's been tried, I've seen it. You wouldn't believe some of the things I've heard over the years.

Good luck to all of you, but remember, until you've tried something in a totally blind test, you really don't know if your mind is being fooled by suggestion.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

jb247 said:
			
		

> If you grow organically, then there really is no need to flush your plants, but if you are using chemically enhanced nutrients, your finished product will taste of chemicals without a flush. I've seen it happen, and the stuff was nasty tasting.
> 
> I use molassas during my flower stage, I do think it improves the flavor of the weed. It also helps me produce bigger buds.
> 
> Peace...j.b.



 I agree, if you do grow organically, then ya you dont need to flush.
 Organic bud really has the Earthly/dirt flavor, i lovvve it yeaaaa.

    Most organic growers dont know that there is a much much better way to set up there organic soil mix, and you would never have to feed, screw with the ph, or do anything. the soil is completly self contained.
 In true living organics, it doesnt directly feed the plants whatsoever.  Organics simply creates an enviorment in which your soil's fungus,microbes,bacteria, and other beneficial creatres ( The Microlife) can thrive, doing what they do in nature: Feeding the plant's roots exactly what they need.
   Using this type of organics increases the yeild and potency, and you can yeild about 80% of what you would, if you grew hydro.. thats alot of bud from indoor soil.

   Organic growing is deep man, there alot more involved than people would think.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

"It's the same thing with the molasses. If I gave any of you a blind test of weeds that had or had not been done with molasses, you wouldn't know which was which"

  I am 100% positive that molasses works. It is a 100% proven Fact the Mollassas works, and is good for the plant.
  Molasses also provides a small source of Nitrogen.
 A very strong source of Potassium.  It provides Trace elements. And it also Provides  SIMPLE SUGARS!!!  Which the plant can obsorb, uptake.
     Just one dose of molasses supplys a week of simple sugars,  2 weeks of medium-high strength potassim release. 
  All of this feeds whatever microlife is surviving in your soil.

Stoney bud, i know u have been growing for over 40 years, and you may of heard some crazy bull poo; but growers have become alot smarter over the last 40 years, and certain practice has been proven to work...like the one i mentioned above.


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## Capt. Skinx

I have found studies backing the use of unsulphered molasses in "High Times" magazine and in other accredited studies, and use it myself. Sugar is what allows plants of ALL types to properly process photosynthesis. Molasses is the "purest" form of sugar on the market due to its processing, and is completely water-soluable. The flushing thing I cannot attest to, though I use flushing methods myself for simple peace of mind, as my wife smokes what I grow, also. In any case, neither will cause harm to your plants if done properly, and remember, IMHO, LESS IS MORE..........


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## krazycraker

thanks for everyones input, like i said i think i will try the mollassas with one plant and leave the other one alone, an experiment i love it. also does anyone know where to get foxfarm ocean forest, ive looked on wormsway and cannot find ocean forest, thanks again for everyones help

:48:


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## Stoney Bud

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> "It's the same thing with the molasses. If I gave any of you a blind test of weeds that had or had not been done with molasses, you wouldn't know which was which"
> 
> I am 100% positive that molasses works. It is a 100% proven Fact the Mollassas works, and is good for the plant. Molasses also provides a small source of Nitrogen. A very strong source of Potassium. It provides Trace elements. And it also Provides SIMPLE SUGARS!!! Which the plant can obsorb, uptake.
> 
> Just one dose of molasses supplys a week of simple sugars, 2 weeks of medium-high strength potassim release.
> All of this feeds whatever microlife is surviving in your soil.
> 
> Stoney bud, i know u have been growing for over 40 years, and you may of heard some crazy bull poo; but growers have become alot smarter over the last 40 years, and certain practice has been proven to work...like the one i mentioned above.


 
I'm sorry man, but you're wrong about the plant using any sugars from the molasses. Plants are incapable of using sugars via the root system or any other system outside the plant. Sugars used by the plant are created within the plant as a result of photosynthesis. Read this information below and you'll understand more about what I'm trying to say. The information below IS proven by testing.

Let me explain what it is that I'm saying in more in depth.

The addition of molasses to SOIL will in some cases, help control the population of nematodes in the soil.

Trials for the control of nematodes have been done on several types of plants. Papaya, onions and cabbage are the most thoroughly tested crops.

In a papaya plantation on Maui where high and damaging populations of reniform nematodes had caused a reduction in fruit yield and quality, the molasses applications lowered nematode soil populations and resulted in marked improvement in the tree growth and harvestable fruit. When applied to Chinese cabbage, there was a decrease in the numbers of Heterodera nematode cysts following harvest. 

Preplant applications of molasses to onions improved plant color and onion yield although no difference in soil nematode populations or in cyst number was observed. Molasses soil amendments supply carbohydrates and alter the C/N ratio. This affects the soil microbial ecology, usually resulting in lowered populations of plant parasitic nematodes as well as having other favorable effects on plant growth. The specific mechanisms involved are not well understood and vary with the crop, soil conditions, and nematode species present.

Soil populations of some microorganisms and of microbial enzymatic activity were also increased by the soil amendments. Under sterile conditions, molasses was not toxic to nematodes so the suppressant effect was probably due to antagonism by microorganisms, to changes in oxygen concentration due to microbial metabolism of molasses, or to the release of toxic compounds from decomposing molasses. Organic amendments such as molasses do not pose a threat to the environment that chemical pesticides do since they are readily decomposed in soil to CO2 and harmless organic products.

In summation to the above information, I can say that when a dilution of 1:20 (3 gal molasses per 55 gal water) is used in SOIL, the following benefits were noted in testing:

Alterations in the soil microflora favorable to plant growth.

Postharvest soil populations of Heterodera cysts were lowered.

The use of molasses would allow growing without nematicide applications.

Molasses provides a carbon source which alters the C/N ratio in soil and this affects the soil microbiota which in turn effects the available nutrients.

A difference between treated and untreated areas in the number of nematode cysts in the soil with lower numbers in the treated area.

There was also a visible difference in tree height and bearing between the two field areas tested. The effect of the molasses on the papaya trees and yield was remarkable. Trees regained their green color and leaves began to grow again. The trees also began to produce marketable fruits that had good shelf life and good taste.

The "good taste" and other beneficial end results that were noted were the result of the absence of harmful soil parasites, not by the uptake of sugars that are contained in molasses. *Plants do not use sugar supplied via the root system or from any means exterior to the plant. 
*
The sugars present in molasses are not taken up by the plant. This is a common mistake among people new to plant biology. 

Plant sugars, which are formed by the plant during photosynthesis, are an essential component of plant nutrition. Like water, sugar (usually in the form of sucrose, though glucose is the original photosynthetic product) is carried throughout the parts of the plant by the vascular system. Phloem, the vascular tissue responsible for transporting organic nutrients around the plant body, carries dissolved sugars from the leaves (their site of production) or storage sites to other parts of the plant that require nutrients. Within the phloem, sugars travel from areas of high osmotic concentration and high water pressure, called sources, to regions of low osmotic concentration and low water pressure, called sinks. (Osmotic concentration refers the concentration of solutes, or sugars in this case; where the concentration of solutes is highest, so is the osmotic concentration). 

Sources 

The nutrient-rich regions that supply sugars for the rest of the plant are called the sources. Sources include the leaves, where sugar is generated through photosynthesis. When they are high in supplies, the nutrient storage areas, such as the roots and stems, can also function as sources. In the sources, sugar is moved into the phloem by active transport, in which the movement of substances across cell membranes requires energy expenditure on the part of the cell.

Sinks

Sinks are areas in need of nutrients, such as growing tissues. When they are low in supply, storage areas such as the roots and stems cane function as sinks. The contents of the phloem tubes flow from the sources to these sinks, where the sugar molecules are taken out of the phloem by active transport. 

Pressure Flow 

The mechanism by which sugars are transported through the phloem, from sources to sinks, is called pressure flow. At the sources (usually the leaves), sugar molecules are moved into the sieve elements (phloem cells) through active transport. Water follows the sugar molecules into the sieve elements through osmosis (since water passively diffuses into regions of higher solute concentration). This water creates turgor pressure in the sieve elements, which forces the sugars and fluids down the phloem tubes toward the sinks. At the sinks, the sugars are actively removed from the phloem and water follows osmotically, so that conditions of high water potential and low turgor pressure are created, driving the pressure flow process.


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## Stoney Bud

So as to not get lost among one of Stoneys verbose posts, the point I'm trying to make is that YES, molasses can be beneficial to plants when applied in soil that possibly has an existing population of nematodes, if used in the proper dilution.

Over usage can cause many harmful effects including, but not restricted to mold growth, insect infestation and clogging of the root system.

If no nematodes are present, many other forms of natural, organic nutrient balance are available that will give more benefit to the plant.

Basically, IMO, molasses has no real benefit beyond that of reducing the amount of nematodal cysts present in the soil that cannot be arrived at with other organic methods that are safer to the plant.


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## jb247

"When someone says "I think it", then I don't mind. When someone says something is fact with no real proof, it bothers me."

I also stated that I have had smoke that was grown non organically, and not properly flushed, and it tasted like somebodies sock...nasty.

Peace...j.b.


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## Stoney Bud

jb247 said:
			
		

> "When someone says "I think it", then I don't mind. When someone says something is fact with no real proof, it bothers me."
> 
> I also stated that I have had smoke that was grown non organically, and not properly flushed, and it tasted like somebodies sock...nasty.
> 
> Peace...j.b.


 
That's why double blind testing is necessary to determine if it's in your head or not.

In a double blind test, neither the person smoking OR the person giving them the weed would know which was which. The flushed weed or the non-flushed weed.

You already know what it is you're smoking. That blows the test right there. It means nothing, because you already know that you're smoking the flushed or non-flushed weed.

You'd have to grow two plants in an identical way. Exactly identical.

Then, have someone else flush one and not the other and mark one "A" and one "B".

Only that person would know which was the flushed.

Then, yet another person takes the weed and rolls a joint from each without knowing which is "A" or "B".

You then try each of them under exactly the same circumstances. One on one day, then the other on another day with the same exact timing and circumstances as the first day. Same time, same everything.

Do this and mark down which you think is which.

Do this until you've been given random samples of both where one day you're smoking the same weed both times and another day, you're smoking the other weed both times. Then days where you smoke each of them in different order.

That, my friend is what double blind testing is.

IF after all that, it turns out that you have actually chosen the flushed weed as superior in taste to the non-flushed weed, then I would believe the process.

Until you've done that, it's not a fair test because you already know what it is that you're smoking each time.

All testing that is scientifically accepted is done this way to eliminate the "Human" factor out of it.

If someone were to tell you for months that the flushing caused the smoke to be harsh, you'd be telling me it was harsh now. That's the human factor man. People *always* sense what it is they are told will happen. It's just human nature.

Set up a double blind test with two of your friends and try it.

Each time you smoke one, write down "Harsh" or "Mellow". Tell them to switch them around and to also give you only one type at least once and tell you it's both.

I'll guarantee you that you'll not get it right. You'll be saying that both types are harsh and mellow. That's why double blind testing is so valuable. It separates the baloney from the facts.

Or, if you choose not to do the testing, be at peace man. It really doesn't matter what you do. 

Flush, don't flush. Wave a blue flag at them at 3:12pm each day while standing on your left foot. Do whatever makes you feel good man.

But until the flushing is tested via the double blind way with neutral observers, it's really not confirmed that flushing does anything but make people think what they already do.

Peace man. Enjoy your weed and just do what makes you feel good.


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## Growdude

jb247 said:
			
		

> "When someone says "I think it", then I don't mind. When someone says something is fact with no real proof, it bothers me."
> 
> I also stated that I have had smoke that was grown non organically, and not properly flushed, and it tasted like somebodies sock...nasty.
> 
> Peace...j.b.


 
Probably just cured wrong.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

jb247 said:
			
		

> "When someone says "I think it", then I don't mind. When someone says something is fact with no real proof, it bothers me."
> 
> I also stated that I have had smoke that was grown non organically, and not properly flushed, and it tasted like somebodies sock...nasty.
> 
> Peace...j.b.



 Ok here are my FACTS!
    you can find it all here...Read up. But i will post my main points here.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19710

    This is a nice debate we have here, im enjoying it. and thank you stoney for posting some good info. buuuut...

~The main benifits of Molasses are  Nitrogen, Potassium, Trace elements, and Simple sugars

~ Since molasses is great source of potassium snd simple sugars for feeding the microlife, it is Great for the plant, and very good for your soil.

~ REMEMBER THIS :The better the soils structure...the more air that can get to it...the more aerobic activity youll have. ...more Areobic activity equals more Microlife. More microlife equals happier plants, and happier plants equal bigger better buds. Amen
 ( That microlife needs to be happy, before the plant is happy.)

~ Using molasses is good for all stages of growth. a dose will supply one week of simple sugars, 2 weeks of medium strength potassium and Nitrogen release.

 So molasses isnt a Basic Need, but it is just an addiiton to making your soil happy, and it benifits the plants in numerous ways.

 also, here is a spread sheet of the basic Mixes found in a Living Organic Soil. http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id=o04837377873472954342.8961477849920657353.06626317065159785985.5568242921235324859&hl=en&action=1&tile=0&rpert=100&tfe=&srow=0&erow=12&fprt=false&scol=0&ecol=6
  The spreadsheet shows what the benifits are from each addition.

 So my point is, that Molasses isnt a Must, but it is benificial.
  I personally believe that Molasses does have a Positive effect on the taste of MJ. I have applyed Molasses to my LO many times, and i honestly find that the molasses buds taste better than when i dont use it. IMO

 Stoney i realize that the plant can&#8217;t process Normal sugar. 
because the grains are too large for the root to uptake it properly. You run a big risk of the sugar clogging the roots and reducing the nutrients to the plant. When the plant can&#8217;t take in enough nutrients the plant turns in on it&#8217;s self and uses up all the stored nutrients before it dies off.
  But since Molasses is already a liquid, and you mix it with how water, which breaks down the sugar even more,  and since molasses only supplys Simple Sugars, and not grains... Maybe it can uptake the Simple sugars. If it did, wouldnt it break it down, and produce glucose?? and wouldn that sweeten the buds??


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## Stoney Bud

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> Ok here are my FACTS!
> you can find it all here...Read up. But i will post my main points here.
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19710
> 
> This is a nice debate we have here, im enjoying it. and thank you stoney for posting some good info. buuuut...
> 
> ~The main benifits of Molasses are Nitrogen, Potassium, Trace elements, and Simple sugars
> 
> ~ Since molasses is great source of potassium snd simple sugars for feeding the microlife, it is Great for the plant, and very good for your soil.
> 
> ~ REMEMBER THIS :The better the soils structure...the more air that can get to it...the more aerobic activity youll have. ...more Areobic activity equals more Microlife. More microlife equals happier plants, and happier plants equal bigger better buds. Amen
> ( That microlife needs to be happy, before the plant is happy.)
> 
> ~ Using molasses is good for all stages of growth. a dose will supply one week of simple sugars, 2 weeks of medium strength potassium and Nitrogen release.
> 
> So molasses isnt a Basic Need, but it is just an addiiton to making your soil happy, and it benifits the plants in numerous ways.
> 
> also, here is a spread sheet of the basic Mixes found in a Living Organic Soil. http://spreadsheets.google.com/ar?id=o04837377873472954342.8961477849920657353.06626317065159785985.5568242921235324859&hl=en&action=1&tile=0&rpert=100&tfe=&srow=0&erow=12&fprt=false&scol=0&ecol=6
> The spreadsheet shows what the benifits are from each addition.
> 
> So my point is, that Molasses isnt a Must, but it is benificial.
> I personally believe that Molasses does have a Positive effect on the taste of MJ. I have applyed Molasses to my LO many times, and i honestly find that the molasses buds taste better than when i dont use it. IMO
> 
> Stoney i realize that the plant cant process Normal sugar.
> because the grains are too large for the root to uptake it properly. You run a big risk of the sugar clogging the roots and reducing the nutrients to the plant. When the plant cant take in enough nutrients the plant turns in on its self and uses up all the stored nutrients before it dies off.
> But since Molasses is already a liquid, and you mix it with how water, which breaks down the sugar even more, and since molasses only supplys Simple Sugars, and not grains... Maybe it can uptake the Simple sugars. If it did, wouldnt it break it down, and produce glucose?? and wouldn that sweeten the buds??


 
No, I'm sorry man. Plants do not take up sugar. None. No way, no how. It's just not what plants do.

Did you read the part in my previous post about plant sugars? They are produced via photosynthesis in the green parts of the plant and transported or stored by the plant until use.

There is simply no way for the plant to use sugar via uptake from the roots.

Whoever is telling you that MJ takes up sugars is blowing smoke. It sure sounds good but just doesn't happen. As for the taste, if you give your plants ANY form of potassium and Nitrogen in the correct quantities, it's help the plant reach it's best performance.

Again, double blind testing would prove it one way or the other. Until then, it's what is known as "Anecdotal Evidence".


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

soo then you agree with me then that molasses is benificial to MJ. Besides the sugar part.


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## Capt. Skinx

Great debate. I still will continue to utilize molasses. Studies differ.


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## Stoney Bud

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> soo then you agree with me then that molasses is benificial to MJ. Besides the sugar part.


 
If used in the proper amount and in soil only, yes it's good for decreasing a nemotodes present in the soil. As a nutrient, almost worthless. During it's breakdown, it helps a little, but no more than a hundred other types of additives, but benificial as an organic additive.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

ya, but you could pay $50 for a bottle of Molasses  "additives", or you could pay $2.


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## Stoney Bud

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> ya, but you could pay $50 for a bottle of Molasses "additives", or you could pay $2.


 
Something about adding a substance that is full of sugar to the soil in my inside grow bothers me. I live in Florida. The cockroaches, palmetto bugs, ants and about 1,000 other bugs would have a picnic in my grow room I think.

For those who can use it and find that it helps them, I'm happy for you.

I'll stick to my General Hydroponics "Flora Series" as the only nutrient I use. It works great for me.

Good luck to you. I hope you have great results.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

here stoney bird, read this post. this should set your straight on the subject of molasses   http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19866


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## Stoney Bud

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> here stoney bird, read this post. this should set your straight on the subject of molasses http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19866


 
Sorry man, it hasn't changed my mind. We'll agree to disagree. Molasses is great stuff on pancakes. A little butter, a glass of milk, and you've got what it's best at.


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## Hick

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> here stoney bird, read this post. this should set your straight on the subject of molasses   http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19866


  long c/p post deleted Ekoostic'. The entire article was/is already included on the resoources page, for anyone interested.


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## headband

Growdude said:
			
		

> Flushing is a myth, all i know is my weed tastes smooth and tasty without flushing.
> 
> 
> Taste is very strain and cure dependent.


I know for a fact that flushing plants will get rid of the harsh/taste. Ive seen friends flush all but one plant, just to seeeee..


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## Stoney Bud

headband said:
			
		

> I know for a fact that flushing plants will get rid of the harsh/taste. Ive seen friends flush all but one plant, just to seeeee..


 
Dude, you have no idea how many times I've heard that. As I said earlier, I've switched pot around that has been flushed or not and every time I say one or the other is flushed, whoever is smoking it says "Wow, that's a lot cooler smoking" when they just smoked the weed that wasn't flushed.

Look up what a "Double Blind" test is. That type of testing PROVES it one way or the other.

He said, she said stuff isn't reliable. It's in your head, not in your taste buds.


----------



## headband

harsh buds ****:spit:


----------



## Growdude

headband said:
			
		

> I know for a fact that flushing plants will get rid of the harsh/taste. Ive seen friends flush all but one plant, just to seeeee..


 
What harsh/taste are you trying to get rid of?
My plants taste sweet and smooth.


----------



## gangalama

Stoney Bud said:
			
		

> There is no scientific testing of any kind that suggests flushing does anything to the taste of MJ.
> 
> If anyone has found any, I'd sure love to read it. So far, all I've ever seen is "He said, She said" type of pro-flushing comments.
> 
> 
> In a real double blind test, I don't think anyone would know the difference.
> 
> The same with the Molasses thing. Plants don't absorb sugar. Molasses only creates a balance in the root area that enables it to absorb nutrients more efficiently. None of the human related "sweetness" from the sugars is in any way absorbed by the plant.
> 
> Lots of stories like this are handed down from camp fire type talks. Like ghost stories, they are fun, but mostly just stories.
> 
> It won't hurt you, it just won't do anything either...........
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> 
> Are you speaking from experience? Because Ill tell you right now theres a little thing called carboload thatll make you eat your words. Its available from grotek, and YES our favourite plant definately does make use of sugars. And as for flushing, it is no myth. There are several products to aid in flushing as it is part of the growing process, though most people use straight water. Its recommended by growers in holland for goodness sake, if anyone knows they know!!!


----------



## Stoney Bud

gangalama said:
			
		

> Stoney Bud said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> There is no scientific testing of any kind that suggests flushing does anything to the taste of MJ.
> 
> If anyone has found any, I'd sure love to read it. So far, all I've ever seen is "He said, She said" type of pro-flushing comments.
> 
> 
> In a real double blind test, I don't think anyone would know the difference.
> 
> The same with the Molasses thing. Plants don't absorb sugar. Molasses only creates a balance in the root area that enables it to absorb nutrients more efficiently. None of the human related "sweetness" from the sugars is in any way absorbed by the plant.
> 
> Lots of stories like this are handed down from camp fire type talks. Like ghost stories, they are fun, but mostly just stories.
> 
> It won't hurt you, it just won't do anything either...........
> ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
> 
> Are you speaking from experience? Because Ill tell you right now theres a little thing called carboload thatll make you eat your words. Its available from grotek, and YES our favourite plant definately does make use of sugars. And as for flushing, it is no myth. There are several products to aid in flushing as it is part of the growing process, though most people use straight water. Its recommended by growers in holland for goodness sake, if anyone knows they know!!!
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yes, I'm speaking from both a Botanical point of view and from more than 40 years of growing weed.
> 
> No, the plants do not make use of sugars in Molasses. No, flushing has not been proven to do a single thing by anyone in Holland or anywhere else.
> 
> And lastly, (sorry MarP), Holland doesn't have any increased knowledge of weed than any other place.
> 
> Marijuana Botany is a science. The science of it hasn't even had any real testing done on either Molasses or Flushing.
> 
> If you know of anything other than just another fireside story, let me know with a link to the testing.
> 
> You've not disproven a single word of what I said. You've mearly repeated the same unproven story line yet again.
> 
> Never ask a guy who sells Oranges if Oranges are the best thing in the world. Of course he'll agree. So will the guy who sells "Carboload". He's a saleman, not a botanist.
Click to expand...


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## Stoney Bud

Growdude said:
			
		

> What harsh/taste are you trying to get rid of?
> My plants taste sweet and smooth.


 
I wonder the same thing, Growdude. Some strains are harsh as hell no matter what you do to them. Some are not.

Any real testing of a process involves what is known as "Double Blind" testing.

Until a real Botanist actually does a double blind test on "Flushing", it's still nothing but a myth that is as popular as Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

Most people LOVE to swear by myths.

Honest, a friend of mine knew a guy who knew a guy who knew a lady who actually SAW the Tooth Fairy kissing Santa while he was flushing the freakin Christmas Tree!


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## gangalama

Carboload. Ive used it and Ive not used it. I have eyes and and perfect use of all my senses. It makes your weed better. Dig your heels in as far as you want, it dont make you right. and I might add that  I tried carboload after several referals from grower, not the _used car_ salesman.


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## gangalama

And as for flushing all the asian growers Iknow dont flush. No one likes their weed, No one.  As for the dutch Im gonna have to repeat that they know what they're doing, but hey we could just listen to *YOU*


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## SmokinMom

Stoney- we need your moleasses joke here.


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## Growdude

gangalama said:
			
		

> And as for flushing all the asian growers Iknow dont flush. No one likes their weed, No one. As for the dutch Im gonna have to repeat that they know what they're doing, but hey we could just listen to *YOU*


 
Some people will hold on to anything because its what they believe.
Hey the dutch do it thats good enough for me .

Well ive tryed it and I know what my results are, not seen any from you.

Do your own testing dont believe anything anyone tell you.


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## Stoney Bud

gangalama said:
			
		

> And as for flushing all the asian growers Iknow dont flush. No one likes their weed, No one. As for the dutch Im gonna have to repeat that they know what they're doing, but hey we could just listen to *YOU*


 
Dude, lighten up.

Like I said, I've been growing weed for 40+ years.

I'll stick with what I like. You stick with what you like.

It's all good.

***
Did you hear about the Mama Mole, the Papa Mole and the Baby Mole that were down in their mole hole?

Well, they smelled something that was FANTASTIC!

The Papa Mole, he sticks his head outta the hole and he says, "I smell PANCAKES!"

The Mama Mole, she pokes her head just past the Papa Moles head and squeezes up and says, "I smell BUTTER!"

The Baby mole, he wiggles and pokes and tries to get past, but he can't! He yells out, "I smell Moleasses!"

HAHAHAHAHA, let's all lighten up a bit. If you like to use Molasses on your plants, who am I to care.

Molasses *has* been proven to help improve soil. However, it's also been proven by Botanists that cane sugar does not in any way get absorbed by any plant. I'll welcome any proof from a scientist that shows different.

Peace to all !


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## SmokinMom

I knew you wouldn't let me down Stoney.


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## Stoney Bud

SmokinMom said:
			
		

> I knew you wouldn't let me down Stoney.


 
I LOVE tellin that one!


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## Stoney Bud

Anecdotal evidence is an informal account of evidence in the form of an anecdote, or hearsay. The term is often used in contrast to scientific evidence, as evidence that cannot be investigated using the scientific method. The problem with arguing based on anecdotal evidence is that anecdotal evidence is not necessarily typical; only statistical evidence can determine how typical something is. Misuse of anecdotal evidence is a logical fallacy.

Scientific method is a body of techniques for investigating phenomena, acquiring new knowledge, or correcting and integrating previous knowledge. It is based on gathering observable, empirical and measurable evidence subject to specific principles of reasoning. A scientific method consists of the collection of data through observation and experimentation, and the formulation and testing of hypotheses.
Although procedures vary from one field of inquiry to another, identifiable features distinguish scientific inquiry from other methodologies of knowledge. Scientific researchers propose hypotheses as explanations of phenomena, and design experimental studies to test these hypotheses. These steps must be repeatable in order to predict dependably any future results.

While in some cases, Anecdotal evidence is sometimes proven by Scientific method, in itself, it isn't proof of anything because of it's lack of documentation in exactness and repeatability, which can only be done via Double Blind testing to prove an absolute result.

Double-blind trials:

Double-blind describes an especially stringent way of conducting an experiment, usually on human subjects, in an attempt to eliminate subjective bias on the part of both experimental subjects and the experimenters. In most cases, double-blind experiments are held to achieve a higher standard of scientific rigour.

In a double-blind experiment, neither the individuals nor the researchers know who belongs to the control group and the experimental group. Only after all the data are recorded (and in some cases, analyzed) do the researchers learn which individuals are which. Performing an experiment in double-blind fashion is a way to lessen the influence of the prejudices and unintentional physical cues on the results (the placebo effect, observer bias, and experimenter's bias). Random assignment of the subject to the experimental or control group is a critical part of double-blind research design. The key that identifies the subjects and which group they belonged to is kept by a third party and not given to the researchers until the study is over.

Double-blind methods can be applied to any experimental situation where there is the possibility that the results will be affected by conscious or unconscious bias on the part of the experimenter.


----------



## headband

Stoney Bud said:
			
		

> Yes, I'm speaking from both a Botanical point of view and from more than 40 years of growing weed.


so then you think the bud gets better or what? just cus i dont understand.
thats a lot if time. mabe it doenst matter, do what you do and well do what we do.


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## Stoney Bud

headband said:
			
		

> so then you think the bud gets better or what? just cus i dont understand.
> thats a lot if time. mabe it doenst matter, do what you do and well do what we do.


 
Yes, it is a lot of time and hundreds of crops. I've seen no difference in flushed or unflushed weed. As I keep saying, I've switched them around and people keep picking whichever one I *say* is flushed, or not, depending on the set of their mind PRIOR to trying the weed.

That is why a double blind test has to be done to prove it. That type of test removes any possibility of bias.

But, as you say, do what you like to do with your own weed. If jumping on one foot while humming rock music makes you think your weed tastes better, then jump and hum away!

Good luck to each of you, and I hope your crops are many and strong.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

good oll magical mollases


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## headband

woord.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

you kno, ive have never noticed the difference before either, but it seems logical to flush out all the Salts and what not..... doesnt it???   cant hurt.




			
				Stoney Bud said:
			
		

> Yes, it is a lot of time and hundreds of crops. I've seen no difference in flushed or unflushed weed. As I keep saying, I've switched them around and people keep picking whichever one I *say* is flushed, or not, depending on the set of their mind PRIOR to trying the weed.
> 
> That is why a double blind test has to be done to prove it. That type of test removes any possibility of bias.
> 
> But, as you say, do what you like to do with your own weed. If jumping on one foot while humming rock music makes you think your weed tastes better, then jump and hum away!
> 
> Good luck to each of you, and I hope your crops are many and strong.


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## SmokinMom

If you want to then go right ahead AH.  

Quit arguing about it and follow Nike's advice.  Just do it.


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## Mutt

Salt build-up from chem ferts can create imbalances and cause trouble in the soil. So I say flush em out. Excessive "N" can make it harsh with CHEM ferts only in soil. Mainly cheap ferts I noticed problems with like the neon green MG all prupose. You guys can beleive me or not don't really care. Not gonna argue. Now with hi-end nutrients and soil...prolly no different flushed or unflushed... again ONLY with really cheap ferts did i notice it. I don't know why...I'm not a botanist. Just noticed it wasn't good smoke compared to one I flushed. I do know that chems "force feed" the nutrients to the plant. Flushing makes the plant use up whats left in the plant prior to harvest. If this wasn't true than fert burn would NOT happen. where organic this is not the case. (organic can get burnt but not as easily as chem ferts)
Organic does not have that problem. So no need to flush. There is a lot I still have to learn about organic. I read everyday.

But as far as everything else.
We all do things different and end up with great end products. Thats what matters. Giving many options and letting the grower figure out what works best for them. Not much use aurguing. Try it or don't, to me I'll give it a shot if its not off the wall too bad. If it works great I'll keep doing it...if it don't then on to another thing. We are ALL learning constantly whether 1st grow or 100th grow....still should be learning. Until its tried it should not be commented on by someone.

BTW: I gotta say....the 3lb are as close to scientists for MJ as we are gonna get. At least there comprisons aren't blind. Most gardners growing maters are more into yeild. Not factors of potency and overall flavor of the herb. So until its legal and allowed to be experimented with in a lab we'll never know for sure. There is valid documentation on mollassas some on this site, but that ain't all thats out there. I will be trying it next grow as this flower is still got chems and cannot use mollassas. Next grow is all organic. So then I will know. I just go by what I see and the ones that have used mollassas in organic mediums were down right amazing. Just because a botanist did not log in here and give me scientific data, doesn't mean its not true.
hope I didn't step on any toes....just the way I see things. I'm out.


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## Ekoostik_Hookah

SmokinMom said:
			
		

> If you want to then go right ahead AH.
> 
> Quit arguing about it and follow Nike's advice. Just do it.



 *sigh*....i wasnt arguing. i only read the post above mine. i was just saying what i thought.


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## pyroguy

i dont flush for harvest just the general well being of the plant. i reveg mine so there is a constant salt battle. youll notice that after a flush the plant will have a burst of growth. always a nice thing.


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## Stoney Bud

Ekoostik_Hookah said:
			
		

> you kno, ive have never noticed the difference before either, but it seems logical to flush out all the Salts and what not..... doesnt it??? cant hurt.


 
Yes, it is good to flush if you have a salt buildup. That can occur at any time in a soil grow if you use the incorrect amount of nutes.

However, it involves nutrient take up, which in turn involves the health of the plant. I don't believe that the flavor of the weed or harshness of the weed has anything at all what-so-ever to do with flushing of the soil.

Flushing a perfectly healthy plant just before harvesting it is unnecessary.


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## Stoney Bud

Mutt said:
			
		

> the 3lb are as close to scientists for MJ as we are gonna get. At least there comprisons aren't blind. Most gardners growing maters are more into yeild. Not factors of potency and overall flavor of the herb. So until its legal and allowed to be experimented with in a lab we'll never know for sure. There is valid documentation on mollassas some on this site, but that ain't all thats out there.


 
There have been thousands of tests done on marijuana in labs across the world. Lots and lots of real scientists work with it on a daily basis. It's turned every which way but loose. If you do a Google on Scientific testing of Marijuana, you'll discover that it IS allowed to be tested in any qualified lab and is so tested. Mostly in respect to it's use as a med. However, in all the testing I've read of, none has been done on "flushing" to improve flavor or harshness of the plant when smoked.

Yes, as I've said, molasses has been proven in scientific testing to improve the soil in SOME cases. Again, it's not been tested with marijuana by anyone in the field of science when applied to marijuana.

As for the "I just go by what I see and the ones that have used mollassas in organic mediums were down right amazing." That's exactly what I'm talking about. You have no idea what else influenced that growth in those grows. You're using Anecdotal evidence to try to prove a scientific point, which is a logical fallacy and doesn't mean a thing. I'm not trying to step on any toes either. I'm trying to get an understanding of what a scientific test involves that WOULD prove something.

I can't make that any clearer.


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## Stoney Bud

Anyone who is irritated at this thread is welcome to not read it.

This isn't an "Argument" it's a civil, polite, (mostly), discussion about the differences of flavor and smokability of marijuana in respects to scientific testing and Anecdotal evidence.

This is a MARIJUANA group. If a discussion about it bores or bothers someone, then stop coming into this thread and reading it.

Nobody has gotten in anyone's case here or is name calling or anything wrong.

It's good to get different points of view on the table and discuss them in this manner. It separates myth from fact and the unproven from the proven.

It's also a great way to get new methods out and air them.

I certainly don't mean to stomp on anyone's feelings here. I pose the scientific data and method to the group that involves the exact topic of the site. That's what this thread is about.

Regardless of method, I wish everyone here the best of luck with all of their grows. That goes without saying.

*Green Mojo*, all the way around!


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## Mutt

Stoney Bud said:
			
		

> Molasses *has* been proven to help improve soil. However, it's also been proven by Botanists that cane sugar does not in any way get absorbed by any plant. I'll welcome any proof from a scientist that shows different.


 
This article does not address regular household cane sugar. Maximum Yield (Good Hydro mag) had it on sugars and plants. The plant is not getting filled up with mollassas. The microbes in the organic soil is breaking it down and feeding it to the plant. My point is Organic growing is vastly different than chem growing. You are dealing with just the plant to feed. Organic growing is feeding the lil microbes and things and making them happy in turn making the plant happy.
Not the case with Chemical Hydro or Chemical Soil.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20645


> Almost all plants use sugars as their main source of fuel. They transport these sugars along with water and other elements throughout their systems, either for food or to create amino acids for biosynthesis to fuel cellular respiration.


----------



## Firepower

Some people are just stuck in lala land and wont budge for the real facts, look at religion,  J/K.. REALLY.......DONT START A RELIGION THREAD NOW!!
But the facts are here and just because someone posted it in the internet doesnt mean is true, anyone can type whatever they want, real information pages provide the reference as to the testing of their findings just for that reason or to the source which was verified by the author.
Ive spent over a year in this forums and molasses helping make the smoke smoother is a returning argument that just never wins., honestly i lost count how many times we had this same thread go on about some 1 who swears by it but yet has never tested the facts..
as to the facts  well i wont be putting any molasses on my plants, im just going to have a 1 0n 1 conversation with them and let them understand they need a smooth taste by harvest!!.:**:

Good luck all and glad to be back around the waters again..:aok:


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## Stoney Bud

Stoney Bud said:
			
		

> Molasses *has* been proven to help improve soil. However, it's also been proven by Botanists that cane sugar does not in any way get absorbed by any plant. I'll welcome any proof from a scientist that shows different.


 


			
				Mutt said:
			
		

> This article does not address regular household cane sugar. Maximum Yield (Good Hydro mag) had it on sugars and plants. The plant is not getting filled up with mollassas. The microbes in the organic soil is breaking it down and feeding it to the plant. My point is Organic growing is vastly different than chem growing. You are dealing with just the plant to feed. Organic growing is feeding the lil microbes and things and making them happy in turn making the plant happy.
> 
> Not the case with Chemical Hydro or Chemical Soil.
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20645





> Almost all plants use sugars as their main source of fuel. They transport these sugars along with water and other elements throughout their systems, either for food or to create amino acids for biosynthesis to fuel cellular respiration.


 
You and I are agreeing, Mutt.

As I've said above, molasses helps condition soil through microbial action. It isn't the same with all plants. Some plants don't respond to it. As far as I know, no scientific testing has been done on marijuana and molasses. 

In your last quote above, you have something that is totally true. However, it's talking about the sugars that are created by the process of photosynthesis, not sugars supplied from outside the plant.

I'll repeat a well known fact from botany; Sugars introduced to a plant via the root system or foliar system will harm plants, not help them unless used in the proper, non-lethal quantities. No plant on this planet absorbs ANY sugars from any outside source. The only benefit of molasses is that it conditions the soil. Many other products do the same thing.

We can toss this back and forth as much as y'all want to, but it won't change the facts. The sugars in molasses and other products cause microbial action in the soil when used in the proper ratios and in the process of doing so, they create an environment that helps the plants absorb their natural nutrients from the soil.

If I might suggest to everyone; do some research on the net about plants and cane sugar. Molasses is made from Sorghum Cane. Any plants that are fed too much cane sugar will die from it. In excess, it causes nutrient lockout. When using it in soil, it has to be used in the proper quantities.


----------



## Mutt

Don't forget to add in there stoney that it MUST be organic. Microbial Life MUST be present to breakdown the mollassas. I guess what I'm saying in organics you feed the lil buggies and they feed the plant. so soil conditioning is critical. No chems and nothing that will harm the lil buggies in the soil.

All cool stoney. 
Good debate....
The chem dudes will Always butt heads with the non-chem dudes. LOL
but good to pick at each others brains.


----------



## Stoney Bud

Mutt said:
			
		

> The chem dudes will Always butt heads with the non-chem dudes.


 
Who you callin a butt head?


HAHAHAHAHAHHAA


I crack me up!


----------



## KADE

maybe the 'chem' users that don't know what they are saying....
but last time i checked... all the gold/black products were still basically organic... 

humic/fulvic acid is all the same


----------



## screwdriver

Why is flushing a myth?
Isn't the purpose of flushing to alter the taste? I can't speak of flushing getting rid of magic chemicals in the bud, but it has to alter the taste.

Certainly there are many ways to alter the taste at various stages of growth and after the harvest. I assume that if you smoke a freshly picked leaf versus one that has had time to cure (The process of breaking down the chlorogreenstuff, proteins, sugar or whatever is in there) your palette would sense a difference. The only thing I can see a double blind test will prove is that there would be a difference. How does a double blind test show what process the bud grown or method of cure. Which manufacturers process is better to drink coke or pepsi?

So how does flushing affect taste?

This is what I think.  Those things that happen when a leaf is deprived of life whether alive or dead are still happening. Those big leaves are yellowing the small one are too, but you can't see it yet. When you smoke a leaf that is green it will be harsh. If you let it yellow whether during the cure or "alive" on the plant you are mellowing the smoke. 
How much chlorogreenstuff is in a yellowing leaf compared to a healthy leaf.
I have read in so many places that chlorgreenstuff is what make the smoke harsh. Less chlorogreenstuff less harsh? How much less is debatable.

So I put flushing down as a ghetto cure method for people that want less bud from their plant and may want to smoke it quickly. No offensive meant it is just the path taken. The last weeks of your bounty being deprive:hitchair: 
There are other methods of growing, in my opinion, that make my garden more efficient and taste better. I am also getting stoned if that matters.
Good luck to those flushing.


----------



## Stoney Bud

screwdriver said:
			
		

> Why is flushing a myth?
> So how does flushing affect taste?


 
Both sides of the issue were copiously discussed during this thread. If you read the entire thread, you'll understand all the issues that were discussed.


----------



## headband

screwdriver said:
			
		

> . No offensive meant it is just the path taken. The last weeks of your bounty being deprive:hitchair:
> 
> Good luck to those flushing.


stop arguing bro, people have their ways and you have your way. let it be, maby you should have posted when this topic was rolling. You dont have to understand or agree why people flush just let us be.


----------



## Hick

I always flush after #2...but sometimes don't after #1...


----------



## HGB

Hick said:
			
		

> I always flush after #2..



same here 


:48:


----------



## screwdriver

I have reread the thread and I understand completely. Thank you.

I apologize if my comment sounded like I was arguing. 
I am truly sorry I didn't post when this thread was rolling.

I will never speak of this again. Sorry


----------



## HGB

screwdriver said:
			
		

> I will never speak of this again. Sorry



I hope you do.... it's all good input my friend :hubba:   

thanks for your post 



:48:


----------

