# Building a 1 watt LED light



## screwdriver

Thought I'd dive into the LED light ceespool of marketing.  Well, I didn't learn much so I'm guessing at most and the rest is wrong but I can't tell which it is what.  

I bought the LEDs and driver, made a box, drew out schematic,  made a dot pattern and so much more.  Here's the dot pattern.

Imagine the picture here.

The darker red dots will be 660nm.
Lighter red dots will be 625nm. 
Blue will be 450nm.
And the pink dots will be from 380 to 700nm.
Still making decisions.

The box that the circuit board will be mount on is 9 x 9 x 4.5 ( inches).  I just bent up some thin aluminum. I'll add the duct holes layer.  This will replace the mh fixture.  So I made the box to fit in that area .    The cabinet this goes in is small and I want to vent any heat. 

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## screwdriver

I have many questions but can't seem to figure out the answers.  Everytime I thought I found the answer, I ran across a different answer.  I thought if it was on the internet it had to be true. 

What ratio of red to blue?
I found, blah blah blah, 8:1,7:1,6:1,5:1, blah blah.
What about a wide spectrum LED mixed in with the reds and blue? How much more or less?  
How many do I need?  

Anyway,  I probably settled for too many but it will have a dimmer to tone it down if need be.  I'll put a switch to cut out the blues in case I want to turn off.


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## Budlight

When building an LED light is it possible to put a UVA LEDs in them to help kill mould and bacteria in the room at the same time


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## bombbudpuffa

These help with your specs. 

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## bombbudpuffa

As far as blue/red ratios I'm not sure what's the correct amount but if you're replacing mh you're going to need a lot more blue. 

The full spec leds should work fine. Just ordered some for a new light build I'm working on.


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## bombbudpuffa

Budlight said:


> When building an LED light is it possible to put a UVA LEDs in them to help kill mould and bacteria in the room at the same time


Yes you can add UV. I'm not sure if it will kill mold or bacteria.


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## Budlight

bombbudpuffa said:


> Yes you can add UV. I'm not sure if it will kill mold or bacteria.



 The only reason why I ask is because in some house furnaces they will run a UVA light to kill mould and bacteria to help keep the air cleaner so I was just wondering if a person was to run some UVA LEDs in their lights would it work the same way I see how the UVA light kills bacteria but would it be harmful to the  plants and you would probably have to have a switch to turn it off because you wouldn't want to be in the room with the uva light on


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## screwdriver

.....I could add a uv led but,  not a big fan.  There is some uv and some ir if the specs on the pink dot led are correct.  Got the pack today and it says 380 - 840.  Remember, that's 1 watt for the whole range.  So I guess that's enough that I don't need to add a specific led for uv.  Not smart enough just a guess. And just a guess that it's enough of the other wavelengths in the center.

I think uv kills or oxidize anything organic. Whatever the proper term.  Such a good idea that while she is sleeping I have a uvb light in there (without the plant)  temporarily.

So if I pretend there is as much red as blue in the pink dots the ratio is 2:1. My limited understanding is that more work gets done with the reds but enough blue keeps the stretching down.  How much is needed is probably depends on the size of grow area.  I may need more blue to keep the internodes  tight.

Do you think more blue than 2:1 ?

This is a small cabinet. 18 x 18 in.  I wanted to spread the lights out over the 9 x 9 .  I could pack them tighter but I thought the spread was a better idea. 

I'm also guessing at how many are needed.  Currently a 70 w mh.  I draw about 80 watts of power on the circuit most of it in the form of heat.  If leds are more efficient than that circuit should have less wattage. Given I choose the correct leds.


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## screwdriver

So I got the pink dots.  10 in the pack.  These are from a supplier that didn't think specs were important and only got limited info.  So I hooked one up.  It's hard to describe how bright but I'm only driving it at about 20%.  My eyes see only the pink but the camera can see the ir.  I used that area to determine the lens angle.  By my fancy calculations it is 120 degree. 

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## bombbudpuffa

Uv bulbs are used to increase resin production so your plants will benefit from a lil. Most of the led grow lights I've run across have some if added. The chart I posted says if can also help thicken leaves but I'm not so sure. I'm adding uv to my light.

As far as the ratios...you may be right about the red leds but the one I'm building will mostly be blue as I'll be using mine as a supplemental light in flowering.

What type of year sink are you using?


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## screwdriver

I didnt put any uv specific leds on the board.  I thought about scattering some 5 mm leds in the mix but haven't found how much uv is needed.  I added some full spectrum pink leds with uv.  Figured the 1 watt is spread across the range so hopefully not much  uv.  There is no fancy chart on the spectrum like other manufactures but I expect it to be close to the charts of other manufactures.  YES, I KNOW not all leds are created equal blah blah blah.  This is what I got to work with.

Heat sinks,  I have to turn them down on the lathe.  Made from half inch round stock with a groove cut in the middle.  A little perspective.....1 watt = not alot of heat.  This is the first prototype idea I'm testing.  The idea is to drill a hole into the circuit board,  one side the led is soldered spanning the hole.  The other side the heat sink will insert into the hole. The circuit board is the black strip in the pic.  I also, may not need the top tier of the button or I can enlarge the diameter of the single lower button. 

Maybe someone can do the heat calculations and explain ? 

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## screwdriver

Marketing says this can be used in all phases?  Red / Blue ratio, 9:1 ?  In this type of light., what size leds, who makes them, what's all of the wavelengths proportions?  I never see technical specs of why one light is better than another.  Maybe all the info is in the box.
Maybe the expensive ones give all the specs in their marketing. 

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## screwdriver

My impression of heat.....its hot, yeah so hot

So I found and maybe understand a little about the 5 sqin of plate per watt.  Not all of the output of the LED is heat.  So I'm not going to need all that surface area but to figure out the surface area of my last design would be tedious. What if I cut the vertical slots in my half inch round stock?  I get close, over three as a guess.  And worked much better. 

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## bombbudpuffa

Works better because those grooves added more surface area to your heat sink.

I buy all of my 3w diodes already mounted to a 20mm "star" heat sink so all I have to do is attach them to a bigger heat sink. I'm going to build a small sized light(60-80w) so I'll add a fan(s) to my bigger heat sink only if needed.


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## Locked

screwdriver said:


> Marketing says this can be used in all phases?  Red / Blue ratio, 9:1 ?  In this type of light., what size leds, who makes them, what's all of the wavelengths proportions?  I never see technical specs of why one light is better than another.  Maybe all the info is in the box.
> Maybe the expensive ones give all the specs in their marketing.



Don't know if this will help but the King LED Light I bought has it's specs listed. 
Here they are:


Product Description
Size:1200W
King and King Plus series products are exclusively selling by KingLED,others are knockoff 
Specifications : 
Dimension: 400*213*60mm (15.75x8.39x2.37inches) 
Power:1200w(120pcs*10w) 
LED Type: Epistar LEDs 
Full spectrum for vegetative and flowering stage: 410nm, 430~440nm, 450~475nm, 620~630nm, 650~670nm, White, IR(730nm) 
(It is hard to see clearly by eyes, very dim.Please don't think they are not working. Instead, it plays an very important role in the flowering and fruiting stages of plants.) 
Coverage Area: about 3.5 x 5.2 ft(The lighting area and the height are changeable according to different plants and environments.) 
Lifespan: >50,000hours 
Worldwide Voltage: 85v-265v 
Working Frequency: 50~60Hz 
Modular Power Cord(Available in US, UK, EU, AU,JP)


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## bombbudpuffa

The light I'm building will have these nm-

400-410
440-450
460-470
520-530
620-630
660-665
400-840(full spec)
4000-4500k
6000-6500k


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## bombbudpuffa

Hamster Lewis said:


> Don't know if this will help but the King LED Light I bought has it's specs listed.
> Here they are:
> 
> 
> Product Description
> Size:1200W
> King and King Plus series products are exclusively selling by KingLED,others are knockoff
> Specifications :
> Dimension: 400*213*60mm (15.75x8.39x2.37inches)
> Power:1200w(120pcs*10w)
> LED Type: Epistar LEDs
> Full spectrum for vegetative and flowering stage: 410nm, 430~440nm, 450~475nm, 620~630nm, 650~670nm, White, IR(730nm)
> (It is hard to see clearly by eyes, very dim.Please don't think they are not working. Instead, it plays an very important role in the flowering and fruiting stages of plants.)
> Coverage Area: about 3.5 x 5.2 ft(The lighting area and the height are changeable according to different plants and environments.)
> Lifespan: >50,000hours
> Worldwide Voltage: 85v-265v
> Working Frequency: 50~60Hz
> Modular Power Cord(Available in US, UK, EU, AU,JP)



It's crazy how close in spectrum you're light is to the spectrums I chose for my light. I'm thinking about adding a lil green and Orange nm also...just not sure yet. I might not since I bought the full spec chips...they may have enough light in the areas I didn't pinpoint.


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## RubyRed

Good topic as Im in a build right now

:48:


tcabs


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## screwdriver

Those king specs are .....????

Power : 1200w (120 @ 10w)
Does the w stand for watts?   I would read that as 120 of the 10 watt leds.  Seems misleading.  If anybody can explain that spec, I would be interested in knowing if the leds are 1watt or 10.   I'm sure they want to keep the ratio of all the LED bands a secret.  It would be interesting to see the secret research on how they came to the conclusion for their product.

The one I'm building is about half the physical size and about 50 - 1watt leds.  This will used in veg.

HL, is there a switch on the light for the different phases?  
If so, can you tell how many or less blue there are in the different phases?


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## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> The light I'm building will have these nm-
> 
> 400-410
> 440-450
> 460-470
> 520-530
> 620-630
> 660-665
> 400-840(full spec)
> 4000-4500k
> 6000-5000k



Are they all 3 watt?
How many of each?
For which phase?


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## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Are they all 3 watt?
> How many of each?
> For which phase?



Yes, they will all be 3w. I haven't decided on the configuration yet but I'll do a documented build when everything gets here. The light I'll be building will be for veg and supplemental lighting during flower.


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## Locked

screwdriver said:


> Those king specs are .....????
> 
> Power : 1200w (120 @ 10w)
> Does the w stand for watts?   I would read that as 120 of the 10 watt leds.  Seems misleading.  If anybody can explain that spec, I would be interested in knowing if the leds are 1watt or 10.   I'm sure they want to keep the ratio of all the LED bands a secret.  It would be interesting to see the secret research on how they came to the conclusion for their product.
> 
> The one I'm building is about half the physical size and about 50 - 1watt leds.  This will used in veg.
> 
> HL, is there a switch on the light for the different phases?
> If so, can you tell how many or less blue there are in the different phases?



No. My Mars has a switch for veg and a switch for flower.  The King does not but says it works for both.  Personally I don't care.  As long as it works in flower it is all good. I use HO T5's for Veg and they work great.  If I can get an LED fixture for veg great but Flower is where I care right now.


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## Locked

bombbudpuffa said:


> It's crazy how close in spectrum you're light is to the spectrums I chose for my light. I'm thinking about adding a lil green and Orange nm also...just not sure yet. I might not since I bought the full spec chips...they may have enough light in the areas I didn't pinpoint.



I have to say I have been more than surprised at how well this King LED light works. I will be getting a anther one for sure. It's just hard to replace the Mars light since it has worked well. I am kinda waiting for it to burn out. Lol.  Not quite wishing. Just ready when it does.


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## bombbudpuffa

Hamster Lewis said:


> I have to say I have been more than surprised at how well this King LED light works. I will be getting a anther one for sure. It's just hard to replace the Mars light since it has worked well. I am kinda waiting for it to burn out. Lol.  Not quite wishing. Just ready when it does.



Ever consider building one? Easy and not as costly as one would think.


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## Locked

bombbudpuffa said:


> Ever consider building one? Easy and not as costly as one would think.



I have thought about it. Not sure I can handle yet another project with the amount of time work takes up. I am currently growing weed, growing magic mushrooms, getting ready to make a batch of Pineapple Wine, and a batch of IPA Beer.  My wife got me a Wine making kit and a Beer Brewing kit for Xmas.  I will eventually give making a LED light fixture a try.  

Did you link to where you get your parts? Would love to know the best place to get parts from.


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## Dan789

Hamster, I'm going to put an amp meter on my king 1200, I'm pretty sure it's not drawing 10 amps, but strangely when I bought and first plugged it in, thought I did check the lux output next to my other fixture, I never bothered to check wattage it used.  I guess I just was eager to get the tents populated and going.


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## Dan789

My king 1200 is drawing 1.95 amps x 120 volts =234 watts per hour.  (GW-KNG S60)


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## screwdriver

Dan789 said:


> My king 1200 is drawing 1.95 amps x 120 volts =234 watts per hour.  (GW-KNG S60)



Thanks for the info.
I'm glad the W  wasn't for watts.  How warm does the top of the light get?   I assume there are fans, but the rest of the light.


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## Dan789

Screwdriver, I doubt the top of the fixture ever gets to 100 degrees. I'm using one 6" centrifical fan to exhaust two 4x4 tents and the exhaust fan isn't pegged, I don't think its at the second of the three speeds.


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## Locked

My units are low 80's at the bulbs  not much hotter on top.


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## screwdriver

Cool to the touch.  Mine will still be vented so it should stay super cool.
Heres the box without the holes for the air flow.   Kind of boring.  9"x 9"x 4.5" 

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## Dan789

Screwdriver, very interested on your light build, on those heat sinks is the round stock steel, or aluminum?  Just curious.


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## bombbudpuffa

Hamster Lewis said:


> Did you link to where you get your parts? Would love to know the best place to get parts from.



EBay bud! Sorry I missed your question. When my stuff gets here I'll start a thread with links.


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## screwdriver

Dan789 said:


> Screwdriver, very interested on your light build, on those heat sinks is the round stock steel, or aluminum?  Just curious.



The old idea with round stock was aluminum.  I don't think steel would work.
New idea is back to plan A.  I'll use some 1/4" plate.  

I thought about ebay but just dont trust as much.  I went to china instead?  Took about 3 times as long to get them if thats an advantage?   Same thing on ebay except the seller had to wait. Probably same price in the end.


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## screwdriver

I think this is the final drawing of the light.  All the leds are surface mounted, placed in the same direction spanning a hole thru the circuit board.  The connection for each series of leds are at the upper part of the image.  It maybe hard to explain but those connections go to the buck puck board (still making) 

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## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> I think this is the final drawing of the light.  All the leds are surface mounted, placed in the same direction spanning a hole thru the circuit board.  The connection for each series of leds are at the upper part of the image.  It maybe hard to explain but those connections go to the buck puck board (still making)



That looks good screwdriver. Anxious to see what it looks like and how bright it is. 

My chips were taking forever to get here so I contacted the seller and it's Chinese New year and they won't be back into office until Feb 5. Haven't heard a thing about my heat sink I ordered either. On the bright side I bought a driver with my full spec leds and didn't even notice until I was contacting the seller.


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## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> That looks good screwdriver. Anxious to see what it looks like and how bright it is.



Thanks, I know I took the long way to build and the parts were taking so long to receive.  Been moving too slow on this quickie project.  Got all the parts now and can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel, just not the led yet.

Last hurdle was using the schematic program, eagle, not the program so much as the learning how to create a new component that was not in the library.  I should have the final touches to the bucky board and hopefully learn how to use the cutter next week.  Thats for the circuit boards. Looks so much easier to use that fancy aluminum extrusion and T nuts.  Thats the way I would recommend. 
BUT, I got so much crap and scrap that sometimes I get carried away.

So, I got my crayon out and drewed it on paper.  That pic is worth a thousand words. 

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## screwdriver

Here's my little box. 
It just shows the lens angle with the vertical distance of the light cone is 6" on the outer two leds.  These are 1 watt leds with a lens angle of 120 degrees.  I still have to check the other leds to confirm. But I wanted the wide angle.  Which is one reason why different led lights need to be at different distances from the canopy.  For those who have leds from a manufacture,  a simple way to find out is with a piece of paper, distance from led (up close), and diameter of light pattern.  A little math to find the angle.  Makes it easier to compare lights.   I think with the 120 degree angle I'll be able to grow in a 6-9" band of light.  There are 48 leds and they are spread out over a wide foot print. And I should be able to get the light close to the canopy.  I think if they were a 30 or 60 degree you would have to be further away from the canopy. Even though they are still a 1 watt led. (All guesses) 

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## bombbudpuffa

We should just merge into one big diy LED thread.


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## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> We should just merge into one big diy LED thread.



You can do that if you want...kind of hard to piss me off over the internet, while being stoned, talking about stuff I know very little.
BUT...this thread may deter people from actually building a light.  Your thread, to me, is the better option to show people how easy it really is.  No need to make a box, circuit board, blah blah.  Just straight forward, solder wire to star pad, mount on heatsink.  hook up power and done.  There are even lenses for some of the extrusions.

On my light, I should be able to change some of the output of the leds in my design.  Whether by dimming or turning off some of the leds.  It should be versatile.  Will more blue light help?  Will more red?  What if I only have one little plant, can I turn off a couple rows to save a pennys worth of energy?


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## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> You can do that if you want...kind of hard to piss me off over the internet, while being stoned, talking about stuff I know very little.
> BUT...this thread may deter people from actually building a light.  Your thread, to me, is the better option to show people how easy it really is.  No need to make a box, circuit board, blah blah.  Just straight forward, solder wire to star pad, mount on heatsink.  hook up power and done.  There are even lenses for some of the extrusions.
> 
> On my light, I should be able to change some of the output of the leds in my design.  Whether by dimming or turning off some of the leds.  It should be versatile.  Will more blue light help?  Will more red?  What if I only have one little plant, can I turn off a couple rows to save a pennys worth of energy?



Okay...about ratios. I've been reading tons and read everything from 2:1 red:blue to 8:1 red and blue. I'm guessing most of these are being geared toward flowering. I'm going for a 1:1 ratio with it slightly leaning more to the blue side. If you look at plant chlorophyll and spectrum charts you don't see a 2:1-8:1 ratio in favor of the reds but actually slightly more action in the blue spectrum.

That said, I'm no scientist so take this with a grain of salt. 

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## screwdriver

Too me, its all either confusing or I cant find the information I need to understand.  So Im hoping I'll be able to dim something or turn off or on a different spectrum.  This is just for my veg cabinet.  Overkill but changeable until  I understand a little more.


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## bombbudpuffa

You just need to put diffent leds on different drivers if you want to turn some off and leave some on. You'll need dimmable drivers to turn the brightness up and down.


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## screwdriver

Feels like Im rushing this????  Must do yard work since its so nice outside.  I'll be back later. 

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## bombbudpuffa

That's going to look really nice.


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## screwdriver

It looks like its coming together or at least I can see that it might work.

Here my thinking,   I have a LPF-60D-24 constant current power supply.  That is  24 vdc and 60 watts of power.  Hope its enough.  "D" is for dimmable,  I can control the output of this power supply.  That will power the buck board.   That board is used to distribute power and control the different strings of leds.  The LDD-1500L, is a buck circuit that with an output rating of 1500 mA.  More  than what I need for this project but will still work.  My strings are only drawing 350mA.  The board also allows me to control the individual strings of leds. There is a pin on the chip that senses a pwm signal.  All the outputs of those chips will be wired to the led board.  The led board has all the surface mounted leds.  They have the "built in" lens so I don't think a hood or secondary lens will be used. 

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## Budlight

screwdriver said:


> It looks like its coming together or at least I can see that it might work.
> 
> Here my thinking,   I have a LPF-60D-24 constant current power supply.  That is  24 vdc and 60 watts of power.  Hope its enough.  "D" is for dimmable,  I can control the output of this power supply.  That will power the buck board.   That board is used to distribute power and control the different strings of leds.  The LDD-1500L, is a buck circuit that with an output rating of 1500 mA.  More  than what I need for this project but will still work.  My strings are only drawing 350mA.  The board also allows me to control the individual strings of leds. There is a pin on the chip that senses a pwm signal.  All the outputs of those chips will be wired to the led board.  The led board has all the surface mounted leds.  They have the "built in" lens so I don't think a hood or secondary lens will be used.



 Looking really good my friend I really can't wait to see your finished product


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## screwdriver

Well ?????

Heres plan A.  My original idea was to mix the strings with different colors.  Add the voltage drop for each series led in the string, add a couple volt cushion and parallel the six strings.  I  have the dimmable power supply, but this thing isn't that wicked powerful.  I think  I can raise it a couple of inches to get the same results as dimming.

Do I really need to control a few extra watts of leds in a small light?
Do I really need to separate leds, to control a single color on a string?
I'm leaning towards, no, no.
I'm leaning towards, KISS. 

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## Dan789

Gentlemen, would you mind sharing who your searching for and purchasing components through?  Ive done some searches but it would benefit all to get some feedback on the suppliers you're using. Though my background is in Electricity, I've haven't been involved in electronics too much since classes in high school, where are you gaining the technical backup for your circuit designs?   Much appreciated.


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## screwdriver

Dan789 said:


> Gentlemen, would you mind sharing who your searching for and purchasing components through?  Ive done some searches but it would benefit all to get some feedback on the suppliers you're using. Though my background is in Electricity, I've haven't been involved in electronics too much since classes in high school, where are you gaining the technical backup for your circuit designs?   Much appreciated.



The easy answer is google.    The long drawn out answer is life experience and how to apply that experience to any new experience.  I can go on but I'll have to google the rest of my thought.

Circuit design?   Not much of a circuit, + to -.

I am just using the software because the leds I bought are surface mounted and will be on fr4 board. I didn't want the traces to cross over each other.  Makes it easier to have less solder junctions and it gets me thinking about TRON.  I bought them off of amazon, from a company in china.  Long wait, poor quality control in manufacturing, maybe not even the correct spectrum, but cheap.

Many different ways to design stuff,  there are comprises, requirements and oops in all my designs.


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## screwdriver

Feel free to correct me.
This is an option for a LED array.  Not a complete drawing, but enough to start.

In the first circuit there are 6 blue LEDs and 2 red that I want to power.  The power supply that is being used is LPF60D-24.  The voltage is 24vdc and up to 60 watts of power.  Its a constant voltage power supply, it always wants to put out 24vdc whether the load is .3 amps or 2 amps.  

I'm not going to bore you with the details of Ohms Law.  The only thing you have to know now is that it clearly states, smoke'em if you got'em.
So, the first circuit is switched on and running within spec.  Everybody's happy.
That's just a fantasy world.  Well, it will work.  Still a fantasy world.   Problem comes when you try to find that resistor.  What is it?  In this type of circuit, I call it a current limiting resistor.  Its used to determine the amount of current flowing in the circuit. In this case, I want 350mA to flow.  And following Ohms Law, smoke break.....
I'm back....
I see somebody calculated 1.14 ohm resistor needed for this specific circuit of LEDs.  If we change the value of the resistor higher or lower the current will change.  I want 350mA, not 320, 400.  So a 1.14 ohm resistor is needed.  In my perfect circuit, all the LEDs are lit.  Why is 350mA so important?  Its not really super important but I want the LEDs to perform up to the manufacture specs.  You can get the forward current rating from the datasheet.  In my case, the 1 watt LEDs that I am using all have the same foward current rating, but different foward voltages.  The numbers above the LEDs and resistors are the voltage drops across each component.  Remember, I only have 24 volts.  When you add up all the voltage drops you get 23.6.  So the difference between what the power supply always puts out, 24, and all the LEDs drops, 23.6, is the voltage drop on the resistor.  Again,  Ohms Law break.........
I love perfection.
Wait I got these LEDs from blah, blah, blah.  The forward voltages vary between each LED.  Maybe not much but some.  Those little numbers add up.  That also means I can't figure out the exact value for the resistor until I know them.  Maybe I can use a potentiometer and adjust it until I read the current that I want. 

OK,  I got the LED voltage drops, the correct value of resistor, the power supply.

Then heat happens.

What if one LED fails?  

In second circuit, the LED fails by opening.  I know the manufactures claim 50000 hrs of life.   Blah blah 50000.   That's NOT being driven at 100% of its current rating.  Its life is alot shorter driven at 100%.  Then add the ill effects of heat and the life becomes even shorter.  Anyway, most of the time when they fail it will open the circuit.  You loose that circuit of lights, the other LEDs aren't affected but there is no light.  You troubleshoot circuit and repair.  Not a big problem.

But what if the LED shorts out. 

In the third circuit the LED shorts out.  The power supply will still put out 24vdc.  So the voltage of 24 still gets distributed to rest of the circuit.  But the datasheet spec said 3.2 volts for a blue LED. It doesn't add up.  Well, that 3.2v is when it is driven at 350mA.  Now that one LED is shorted, its voltage drop is distributed to the rest of the circuit.  So each LED and resistor gets a little more volt drop onto it.  For the resistor, it heats up.  The LEDs, the more voltage allows the LED to conduct faster (current rises) so they have more power and they will be brighter.  Not a big problem, the LEDs are brighter thats what I want!  

Back to reality.....

That little voltage in this case, according to Ohms Law,  smoke break....

Missed it.

Yeah, its gets brighter for a little while then the cascade effect happens because of the increased current flow with each failure.  They all short out by the time reality sinks in.  Imagine if it was your whole light, poof.

I does happen on occasion.

In my light there are multi strings of LEDs.  So it may only take out a portion of the overall light.  The other strings would be in parallel to the example circuit and wouldn't be affected by that circuit, hopefully.

For your homework,  calculate the value for the current flow in the third circuit when the blue led shorts out.  Hint:  the extra 3.2v is not distributed evenly amongst the components.

Valid circuit to use but the failure mode is a concern and to be able to find the correct resistor, also.  I  didn't even get into the heat issue on this circuit so I'll put it on the back burner for now. 

View attachment circuit.png


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Dan789 said:


> Gentlemen, would you mind sharing who your searching for and purchasing components through?  Ive done some searches but it would benefit all to get some feedback on the suppliers you're using. Though my background is in Electricity, I've haven't been involved in electronics too much since classes in high school, where are you gaining the technical backup for your circuit designs?   Much appreciated.



EBay or LEDsupply


----------



## Dan789

screwdriver said:


> Feel free to correct me.
> This is an option for a LED array.  Not a complete drawing, but enough to start.
> 
> In the first circuit there are 6 blue LEDs and 2 red that I want to power.  The power supply that is being used is LPF60D-24.  The voltage is 24vdc and up to 60 watts of power.  Its a constant voltage power supply, it always wants to put out 24vdc whether the load is .3 amps or 2 amps.
> 
> I'm not going to bore you with the details of Ohms Law.  The only thing you have to know now is that it clearly states, smoke'em if you got'em.
> So, the first circuit is switched on and running within spec.  Everybody's happy.
> That's just a fantasy world.  Well, it will work.  Still a fantasy world.   Problem comes when you try to find that resistor.  What is it?  In this type of circuit, I call it a current limiting resistor.  Its used to determine the amount of current flowing in the circuit. In this case, I want 350mA to flow.  And following Ohms Law, smoke break.....
> I'm back....
> I see somebody calculated 1.14 ohm resistor needed for this specific circuit of LEDs.  If we change the value of the resistor higher or lower the current will change.  I want 350mA, not 320, 400.  So a 1.14 ohm resistor is needed.  In my perfect circuit, all the LEDs are lit.  Why is 350mA so important?  Its not really super important but I want the LEDs to perform up to the manufacture specs.  You can get the forward current rating from the datasheet.  In my case, the 1 watt LEDs that I am using all have the same foward current rating, but different foward voltages.  The numbers above the LEDs and resistors are the voltage drops across each component.  Remember, I only have 24 volts.  When you add up all the voltage drops you get 23.6.  So the difference between what the power supply always puts out, 24, and all the LEDs drops, 23.6, is the voltage drop on the resistor.  Again,  Ohms Law break.........
> I love perfection.
> Wait I got these LEDs from blah, blah, blah.  The forward voltages vary between each LED.  Maybe not much but some.  Those little numbers add up.  That also means I can't figure out the exact value for the resistor until I know them.  Maybe I can use a potentiometer and adjust it until I read the current that I want.
> 
> OK,  I got the LED voltage drops, the correct value of resistor, the power supply.
> 
> Then heat happens.
> 
> What if one LED fails?
> 
> In second circuit, the LED fails by opening.  I know the manufactures claim 50000 hrs of life.   Blah blah 50000.   That's NOT being driven at 100% of its current rating.  Its life is alot shorter driven at 100%.  Then add the ill effects of heat and the life becomes even shorter.  Anyway, most of the time when they fail it will open the circuit.  You loose that circuit of lights, the other LEDs aren't affected but there is no light.  You troubleshoot circuit and repair.  Not a big problem.
> 
> But what if the LED shorts out.
> 
> In the third circuit the LED shorts out.  The power supply will still put out 24vdc.  So the voltage of 24 still gets distributed to rest of the circuit.  But the datasheet spec said 3.2 volts for a blue LED. It doesn't add up.  Well, that 3.2v is when it is driven at 350mA.  Now that one LED is shorted, its voltage drop is distributed to the rest of the circuit.  So each LED and resistor gets a little more volt drop onto it.  For the resistor, it heats up.  The LEDs, the more voltage allows the LED to conduct faster (current rises) so they have more power and they will be brighter.  Not a big problem, the LEDs are brighter thats what I want!
> 
> Back to reality.....
> 
> That little voltage in this case, according to Ohms Law,  smoke break....
> 
> Missed it.
> 
> Yeah, its gets brighter for a little while then the cascade effect happens because of the increased current flow with each failure.  They all short out by the time reality sinks in.  Imagine if it was your whole light, poof.
> 
> I does happen on occasion.
> 
> In my light there are multi strings of LEDs.  So it may only take out a portion of the overall light.  The other strings would be in parallel to the example circuit and wouldn't be affected by that circuit, hopefully.
> 
> For your homework,  calculate the value for the current flow in the third circuit when the blue led shorts out.  Hint:  the extra 3.2v is not distributed evenly amongst the components.
> 
> Valid circuit to use but the failure mode is a concern and to be able to find the correct resistor, also.  I  didn't even get into the heat issue on this circuit so I'll put it on the back burner for now.



Screwdriver, So looking just at the voltage drops or Vt / Et (where Vt/Et is total voltage drop)of the third circuit you'd drop 3.6 volts across your resistor.  Using then simply ohms law I=e/r you'll have I= 3.6/1.14, that's I = 3.157 amps, much higher than the capacity of the driver power supply.  imho your resistor should be 10.4 ohms and also at least capable of withstanding 2 watts of power.  At the 1.14 ohms , you'll be subjecting it to over 24 watts of power and of course much higher amperage (for a short time).  Not having any knowledge/experience with the drivers, I'm curious if they have any overload protection for just this sort of fault?


----------



## Budlight

What are your guises thoughts of running something like this on a light similar to the one your building 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00C498MGY/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20









Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## screwdriver

The above way is only an option, whetever the values.  I really want to control the current at 350 mA and let the voltage drop be.

You may be able utilize the ebay board but I have not had good luck.  Not for this type of project but bought a motor controller and was not what the rating was.

I'll be using the meanwell buck for a constant current of 350 mA with two LEDs or 6.  It should work, dont know never used one.


----------



## screwdriver

Did a horrible job of etching but still works.  This board distributes the power to each string of LEDs. Even though these are dimmable I am not going to use it.  Just leaving this pin open. 

View attachment 20170127_211343.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Did a horrible job of etching but still works.  This board distributes the power to each string of LEDs. Even though these are dimmable I am not going to use it.  Just leaving this pin open.



You're way over my head dude. I'll have to look into the ldd. I've only used the constant power supply drivers.


----------



## screwdriver

I think those are the same thing, different package.   Do you plug those into the wall?


----------



## screwdriver

I googled.  I remember. 
 Mine is just split into two components.  Different route.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Here's an example 

View attachment 60W_LED_driver_30_70V_680mA_B__35735_zoom.jpg.cf.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

At one time I wanted to be able to turn off some strings but changed my mind.  Now, I just want to run them all the time and no dimming feature either.  Your example would work, for 3w, but there are different ones that work for 1w.  I got to make a circuit board for my light.

Heres the latest pics.
Timer module installed.
Buck board and power supply mounted.
Power cord connected.
One end mounted with blower sleeve. 

View attachment 20170128_144516.jpg


View attachment 20170128_144600.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> At one time I wanted to be able to turn off some strings but changed my mind.  Now, I just want to run them all the time and no dimming feature either.  Your example would work, for 3w, but there are different ones that work for 1w.  I got to make a circuit board for my light.
> 
> Heres the latest pics.
> Timer module installed.
> Buck board and power supply mounted.
> Power cord connected.
> One end mounted with blower sleeve.



No dude those will actually run 1 and 3w chips.


----------



## screwdriver

Nearly ready to test. 

View attachment 20170202_212952.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Now that looks awesome! Can I see the other side of the board if at all possible?


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Here's the configuration I believe I'm going with. Now a few things could change but this is basically what I'll have. Sorry for the crappy drawing. The chips will be spaced a lil better on the actual light. 

View attachment 2017-02-03_02.21.49.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

Heres a pic thru the hole.  I just milled some quarter inch aluminum so the quarter inch squares would stick thru the board.  The back side of the circuit board also had copper on it but most came off.  The copper on the back side doesn't electrically connect to anything.

On a side note::  Wear some sunglasses while working on light.  Went to bed last night but could still see the lights with my eyes closed. 

View attachment 20170203_065203.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Here's the configuration I believe I'm going with. Now a few things could change but this is basically what I'll have. Sorry for the crappy drawing. The chips will be spaced a lil better on the actual light.



Do you solder all the wires onto the stars then place into slot or place the stars then solder?


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Do you solder all the wires onto the stars then place into slot or place the stars then solder?



I'm going to put them in place then solder.


----------



## screwdriver

Testing 1, 2, 3, Testing 

View attachment 20170204_170226.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Nice!!


----------



## Budlight

Looking good buddy :48:


----------



## screwdriver

Thanks peoples.


----------



## screwdriver

Parallel circuit.

Yes, you can run your LEDs in parallel.  I will you use the above image (post#59) of the driver and some 1 watt LEDs. The specs I read are:  30 - 70 vdc @ 680 mA.  The LEDs forward current will be 350 mA.  With the constant current output of the driver I can run two strings of the LEDs in parallel.  There will be 340 mA running through both strings.  Since the voltage is from 30 to 70 volts and in this case, the voltage drop on each LED will be 3.2 volts. I can have from 10 to 21 LEDs in each string.  BUT....


The 3.2 volts is an estimate at a given current. Each strings total voltage drop difference allows more or less current to flow in that string.  Instead of 340 mA in each string, you could have 360 mA on one string and 320mA in the other.  This would simply cause one string to be brighter than the other.  Depending on the differences of individual LEDs, you may or may not be able to see the difference. There may also be enough of a difference to significantly impact the light.  As in the forward voltage drops of the LEDs on one string are in the upper range ,3.4, and the other string they are at the lower end 3.2. That would be .2v per each of the LEDs for a total of 4v. My guess is you may see smoke from one side conducting harder than the other.

So what if an LED fails?

In the second drawing the LED fails by opening. The rest of the LEDs in that string just go out with no damage. But the 680mA of constant current has to go somewhere.  Which, with only one other path, the full current of the driver goes through the other string.  That much current through the LEDs most likely will damage the whole string until one goes out in that string.

What if it shorts out instead?

Anybody? 

Bueller.
Bueller. 

View attachment parallel.jpg


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## bombbudpuffa

Can you solder a resistor of some sort on each led?


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Can you solder a resistor of some sort on each led?



There are two answers to that question, yes and no.  The yes side says with a few extra components and more complexity it can be done (not to each LED).  The no side says, use that LED driver in post #59 to power LEDs that can handle that current level output.  The image actually shows 12-20 @3w   

Barring any failure it still can be used just with two strings of parallel 1 watt LEDs between 10 and 21 per string.  You may have to compensate during the build by measuring the voltage drops on each string and each LED so the two strings match but that brings up other negative factors we'll discuss  infused into later posts.


----------



## screwdriver

This is the schematic of my light.  The lighter red LEDs are 620-625nm,  darker reds are 660nm, blues are 440-450nm and the pinks are the full spectrum 380-840nm.  The light pattern shown is the same on the light.  The other spec on the LEDs that I measured was the lens angle.  While it may not be exact, the majority of the light spread measured from within an inch of the LED are:  for blue the lens angle was 90 degrees and 120 degrees for the rest.  I could have choosen a more narrow len angle and then I would just need a little more distance from plant.  Since my head room is limited I was aiming for the wide angle. 
Why the different wavelengths and how to choose?
I guessed, whatever looked pretty in my head.  Don't look at the light after you build it.  
Here's some thinking stuff.
This could have been made in a completly different way and be even better but this is more of my path.  At one point I wanted to control different strings and maintained the ability to add that in the future if and when somebody claims that a light schedule of 5 minutes of blue on then 2 minutes of red on while blue is off for 3 minutes. Then when red goes out for 8 minutes the blue blinks at a rate of no more than 39.99 hertz.  Opps, sorry I got cynical up in your as.   I'll continue.
How big did I need to go?  I don't know couldn't really make heads or tails of the needs or wants.  So I looked around at what I had.  Some things in my design are because I have it versus using the more appropriate item.  I wanted to use a 12 volt 15 amp power supply but got discourged when I couldn't find the other pieces of the puzzle quick enough and the thing is HUGE (say it right).   I settled for a 24vdc 60watt power supply (constant voltage). Plug the input to my 120VAC outlet, the other side will go to the circuit board.   Whatever the amount of LEDs I used I wanted to keep the total output power of the light box to be around 50watts.  The 60 watts of my power supply fit that bill. 
Then I moved on to how many LEDs I could power with the power supply I choose.  Using intelligent guessing and Ohm Law Break  

View attachment cob.png


----------



## screwdriver

Pictures 

View attachment 20170205_105929.jpg


View attachment 20170205_105948.jpg


View attachment 20170204_112609.jpg


View attachment 20170204_092556.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Glad I don't have to do all that work. Mine is basically plug and play besides soldering the chips together. The hardest thing about mine is deciding on the colors.

You're light looks like it should produce. Can't wait to see it growing.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Pictures



Yea....that's really good looking. Anxious to see how they perform.


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Glad I don't have to do all that work. Mine is basically plug and play besides soldering the chips together. The hardest thing about mine is deciding on the colors.
> 
> You're light looks like it should produce. Can't wait to see it growing.



I agree.


----------



## screwdriver

Looking at this information.  The three strings of red, circuits 1,3,5 each have a different voltage drop across the LEDs, 21.5, 21.48 and 21.68.  That's the differences in the manufacturing some have an easier time doing what they are supposed to do.  Each string still has the 350mA flowing thru it.  The blues and pinks have the 350 flowing and those voltage drops are slightly different also.

I was going to measure the drops across each LED for the fun of it but the lights were so bright, I couldn't really see, on my attempt anyway I may have touched something I shouldn't have and the string went out.  oops moment.

One advantage to using the LDD350L, it does have circuit protection from overload.  It shuts down the output until the problem is removed.  So instead of that rush of current, because of the short, taking out the LEDs it just shuts off.

If LED opens,  Turns off that string, doesn't affect any other LED in that string (other than turning off) or in other strings on light.

If LED shorts,  Not much, LED goes out, current not affected in that string therefore the remaining LEDs operate normally.  LDD350L compensates and the output voltage is lowered while maintaining the 350mA output also. 

View attachment cob.png


----------



## bombbudpuffa

This is basically what I'm shooting for. LEDsupply didn't send enough nuts or bolts to screw them all in place. Was going to contact them but it would be quicker to just run out and buy more.

Crees still haven't arrived and I'm impatient. If I want to I can switch out chips later. 

View attachment 2017-02-06_11.11.05.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

Is the back side of the stars blank?
Do you use thermal compound ?


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Yes they are blank and yes I do use thermal compound.


----------



## screwdriver

Update on the cob.
I have been checking the temperature of the heatsinks, mainly the heatsink with the 6 LEDs.  The sinks with 5 red LEDs temps are 110 degrees F and the 6 LED sink runs about 120f.  Those temps are without an exhaust fan on.  I think its running cool enough without a fan but it will eventually put into the cabinet with a fan.


So, thinking this might be for flowering.  4 to 5  5watt LEDs per heatsink with eight heatsinks.  This one will need to be in a cooltube.  I got to do it again but I think the crosssectional open area is more than the area between the tube and the bulb socket of the HPS.  There's enough spacing on the sink for the LEDs, can expand if I need but probably not needed. 

View attachment 20170206_174745.jpg


----------



## Kraven

Been following along and i'm really impressed. Looks like your well on your way to a working prototype. Thats where the tweaking really begins, good luck and green mojo.


----------



## screwdriver

Kraven said:


> Been following along and i'm really impressed. Looks like your well on your way to a working prototype. Thats where the tweaking really begins, good luck and green mojo.



Thanks.

This is my test subject I commandeered from work.  Our secretary didnt realize it needed water. Shes more into shoes than plants.  I eventually found it in my rubber tree planter on its death bed for a second time.  The first time it went without water it lost all the pretty flowers.  She thought it would suck water from it when I watered the rubber tree.  So I carried it out on a gurney.

I transplanted and watered.  She quickly formed a support group in a sunny window.  She looked much better just getting a little water on a regular basis.  Nothing extra special just a little love.  It was about two weeks of that.

I put her under my light at 18/6 and about 16 inches away.  Soon after, it just looks happier.  Dont know if it is just because she looks prettier under the light.  The stems feel stiffer, the biggest improvement is the feel of the leaf.  Before, with the winter light and water, the leaves felt dry and stiff like they would  crack if I flexed them too far.  Now, with 18/6 super LED, the leaves feel more pliable and velvety.  Very happy with the results so far.

Moved her closer to the light, shes about 11 inches away now. 

View attachment 20170207_071328.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Great work screwdriver! Do you think you'll have to add any exhaust to keep it cool...the components.


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Great work screwdriver! Do you think you'll have to add any exhaust to keep it cool...the components.



Thanks.


So far, everything is running at or below 120F.  Thats about 50c.  Which is well below any ratings in the specs.  I believe the interface between the LED and heatsink are cool enough.  The best I can check is with an IR thermometer.  I cant find any area that is over 120F no matter where I point on either side of the board.  I also get fairly close to narrow the reading area. The other component temperatures are about the same, also within their operating range.  So far so good.  This testing is in a large volume room and there is a small fan kind of pointing towards the hole moving a little air but definitely not like an exhaust fan.  In a small cabinet there would be a need to remove that amount of heat with an exhaust fan.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

That's really awesome. No way mine will just passively cool. I'm going to have to add a fan to my heatsink.


----------



## Budlight

Just out of curiosity what is your guises thoughts on those 50 W LED chips that come with the built-in driver


----------



## screwdriver

Budlight said:


> Just out of curiosity what is your guises thoughts on those 50 W LED chips that come with the built-in driver



 I'm no expert.  With that type, all the ground work is done for you.  Don't have to worry about the spectrum, heat, lens, power. Nothing wrong with letting others do the work for you.

A slight advantage to the 1, 3, 5 watt LEDs are they have a built in lens.


----------



## screwdriver

She's still looking good.  Leaves feel thicker.  Moved to 7" from light,(not the tall stem) 

View attachment 20170208_173637.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Looks like the color is blending very well. I'm so anxious to get mine together and running...just keep hitting road blocks. Now I have to wait for more nuts and bolts because I couldn't find them locally.


----------



## screwdriver

I lost my confidence in the ir thermometer.  I put a thermocouple in two of the heatsinks,  one on the center 5 red LED and the other on the 6 LED heatsink.  The full spectrum LED really heat up fast and the hottest,  the blue ones don't put out much heat and the red ones fall in the middle.
The latest picture, the heatsinks heat up within the first hour. 

View attachment 20170209_195821.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> I lost my confidence in the ir thermometer.  I put a thermocouple in two of the heatsinks,  one on the center 5 red LED and the other on the 6 LED heatsink.  The full spectrum LED really heat up fast and the hottest,  the blue ones don't put out much heat and the red ones fall in the middle.
> The latest picture, the heatsinks heat up within the first hour.



Good info. I hope it's the same with the 3w diodes since my light is heavily blue. How's the begonia doing?


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Good info. I hope it's the same with the 3w diodes since my light is heavily blue. How's the begonia doing?



Awesome.  She looks so much happier.  Moving her up couple inches later on.  Waiting to see any damage from the light.  Even when she was 16 inches away I saw improvement under the light.


----------



## screwdriver

Moved her up a bit.  Most of her is at 5.5 in.  Still don't see any damage to the tall one.  Temps are running the same.  Seems to be stable. 

View attachment 20170210_182900.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

Here's the next project.  This design will be much simpler.  Will be used in flower.  I'll be using the meanwell LDD1500L this time.  It will deliver the constant current for the 27  5 watt LEDs for a grand total of 135 watts.  Similar to the 1 watt design but  anybody should be able to do this if they have patience to tap 6-32 screws.  I'm still thinking about the power but I think I'll be using what I got for now, 12vdc constant voltage power supply.
I'm also using a parallel circuit for the blue and the full spectrum LEDs and a little overdriving of the red LEDs. 

View attachment 20170210_193448.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

That one is going to be really nice!


----------



## screwdriver

I got impatient so I moved her up  to 4".  There also seems to be some action going on underneath.  I guess the bright white on the leaves is the reflection of IR.  Looks pretty.

I checked the overall power on the light.  It draws .45A which makes a 54 watt cob.  It takes 11.2 watts to make the 42.8 watts that the LEDs use to make the pretty colors. 

View attachment 20170211_182238.jpg


View attachment 20170211_171743.jpg


View attachment 20170211_165356.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

That thing is going to have tons of flowers!


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> That thing is going to have tons of flowers!



I hope they bloom under the light.  Poor girl, she better hurry because I got other priorities.

Done testing with ambient conditions.  This is a graph of how fast these things heat up.  I put the light in its new home with duct work. 

View attachment 20170212_091236.jpg


View attachment 20170212_083623.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

Step 1:  Decide to build a light.

Buy circuit board and ferric chloride, you can use finger nail polish or buy the rub on transfer lines.  I used nail polish this time.
Hope you have drill and bits, maybe a dremel and a tap for the screws.
You can use 2" wide quarter inch thick piece of aluminum from the hardware store or online.  This design uses the heatsink edge being flat and not milled like the 1 watt board.
You don't really need the circuit board, a piece of masonite would work also then just use wire to interconnect the LEDs.   Just needs to be fairly thin eighth of less and stiff.  The buck circuit, LDD1500L also comes as a wired in/out instead of the pinned package.   The LEDs that I am using are the same as the 1 or 3 watt in size.  I drilled half inch holes and mounting holes for the heatsink.

Paint circuit board
Each circuit board
Clean circuit board
Solder to new circuit board. 

View attachment board.jpg


View attachment 20170211_225101.jpg


View attachment 20170211_233019.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

How drill the holes in the right place?

I used a predrilled board for proper  hole placement but you can also use a piece of paper with the component pushed thru.  Take the paper, lay over circuit board and drill holes.  Use a tiny drill bit but try not to break it.

For the heatsinks I drilled holes for a 6-32 tap. 

View attachment 20170212_111352.jpg


View attachment 20170212_111601.jpg


View attachment 20170212_103737.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

Here it is sort of put together,  minus all the LEDs.  Still waiting.
The golden stuff on the ends is Kapton tape.  Its a high temp insulating tape.
There it is in the tube. 

View attachment 20170212_104855.jpg


View attachment 20170212_104927.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

The schematic.  I think its correct. 

View attachment Untitled.png


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Screwdriver can I use crees with the bridgelux as long as they're rated the same? I can't find the answer to this anywhere. 

View attachment 2017-02-13_15.42.07.jpg


View attachment 2017-02-13_15.41.38.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

The crees themselves 

View attachment 2017-02-13_15.56.03.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Nevermind. Seems the seller had the listing wrong. The cree xb-d are rated for 350ma not 700ma. I have 350 and 700 drivers so I'll have to put them on separate drivers. Thanks anyway though.


----------



## screwdriver

Its always good when I don't do anything and you still get the answer.

The nice thing about LEDs is you can drive them with a wide range of current.  The more current, the more heat and light.  On some LEDs that would affect the luminous efficacy.

In the 5 watt light,  I'll be using 1500mA instead of the rated 1100-1200mA for the reds.  More light and if the heat is controlled the LED should survive.  The blue and full LEDs will be driven at 750mA in the parallel/series center string.  They are rated for 560-700mA.  I'm  also adding a little protection on those LEDs that I didn't include in the schematic.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Are you using cheap Chinese components like me?


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Are you using cheap Chinese components like me?



Sadly, yes but I refer to cree datasheets .


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Nevermind. Seems the seller had the listing wrong. The cree xb-d are rated for 350ma not 700ma. I have 350 and 700 drivers so I'll have to put them on separate drivers. Thanks anyway though.



I think you can drive them at 700 for the 3 watts or about 3 watt output. Driving them at 350 will run cooler but at a lower light output.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

I'm going to see how hot they get on 350 first. I might just make a different light with the crees without any nm chips but K chips instead...out of curiosity.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Sadly, yes but I refer to cree datasheets .



Hey those cree I bought from China are outdated but rated at 300lm per chip. That's 3x more bright than the cheap epistars. Sometimes you can get some good deals. My full spec stars were $3 for 10 and they're bridgelux.


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> I'm going to see how hot they get on 350 first.



Thats always a good idea.

Here are some pics from the datasheet.  The first image shows if you increase the current you increase the luminosity  but the important part is at the top, Tj=85c.

The second image shows what happens to the luminosity as the LED heats up.  Thermal management is kind of important in keeping these things alive and putting out light.

The LEDs that I'm using don't have this type of spec in writing but all LEDs follow a similar path.

Has anybodys light overheated and took out multiple LEDs or even one LED? 

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## bombbudpuffa

I haven't had any led chips blow out and all I've used is the cheapos.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Finally got my nuts and bolts. Have to even the chips out n solder it altogether. 

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## screwdriver

What are the colors in your pattern?


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> What are the colors in your pattern?



http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1006613&postcount=64


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Just have to hook up the drivers. Hopefully she'll be on tomorrow. 

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## screwdriver

Do the screws have nylon washers.
Can you measure the voltage drop on each string at a given current.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Do the screws have nylon washers.
> Can you measure the voltage drop on each string at a given current.



Yes and I have a voltage meter but idk how to use it. Lemme YouTube it real quick.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Do the screws have nylon washers.
> Can you measure the voltage drop on each string at a given current.



You might be better off telling me what setting to put the meter on and where you want the probes at lol.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Together! 

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## screwdriver

Voltage, dc,  auto range?  Maybe if there is a range selection?  Red, anode. Black to cathode.  Doesnt matter if the reading is neg if its a digital.

Current,  insert into circuit in series.  Can look at driver for that if a constant current driver.


----------



## screwdriver

Oh yeah,  for current the meter leads need to be in the correct spot in meter and the selector on amps.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Dude! I should've told you...I don't know anything about electricity. Can you show me on your light with the meter exactly what you want me to do?


----------



## screwdriver

If I had crayons it would have looked better.  The pic is for voltage.
Whats the current rating on the driver? 

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## bombbudpuffa

Oh I gotcha! I'm much more visual. You just want to see what it's rated vs what it's actually putting out. Gimme a sec as it's already in my tent. I'll have to take it apart a lil.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Sorry but my meter is out of batteries but I took a bunch of pics to show you what I did and all of the drivers. I'll run out and get another meter when I'm off Sunday and take some readings for you.

Pic 1) the driver running the fan
Pic 2) the driver running 11 of my chips
Pic 3) the driver running the remaining 17 chips
Pic 4) used wago connectors to hook up the drivers to my power cord 

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## bombbudpuffa

Put all of the drivers in a project box from radio shack. I drilled holes for the wires and the mounting nuts and bolts. I put rubber grommets in the holes the wires were to run through. The project box is sitting up a lil off of the heatsink so the fan can push air under the project box. 

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## bombbudpuffa

Here's the spotlight it puts off at different spacing.

Pic 1) 1 ft
Pic 2) 2 ft
Pic 3) 4 ft 

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## screwdriver

Looks good.  I assume it was easy?  
What are the temps on the hot side?  Did you add an extra fan?
The black box,   any vent holes for heat?  Where did you place that box?


----------



## bombbudpuffa

No heat at all. Let it run for an hour last night and it was still cool to the touch. The drivers don't get hot at all. Yea this light was very easy to build. 

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## screwdriver

I have some extra 1 watt LEDs left over so started looking around and found enough parts for a start.  I took apart a broken PA system and removed the heatsink off the amplifier and cut in half.  Thats the black part in the center.  The two end pieces are my scrap test piece from our new waterjet.  I had to learn how to use it so why not cut something useful.  Tied it all together with a couple of 1/8 inch steel rods about 8 inch long that I  found on the floor.  Cut some threads on the ends for nuts and tighten down. 

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## screwdriver

Here are the extra LEDs.  I left out the blue one just to keep the light balanced.  I will have more 5 watt LEDs to put on this but this is the start.  8 reds and 2 full spectrum, currently.  For this light I'm just going to glue the LEDs with thick CA.  I have used super glue in similar ways but maybe not this much heat but I read it on the internet that it would work.  Must be true. 

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## screwdriver

This is the power pack that was salvaged from the bottom of a trash can.  Notice the output voltage, 12vdc.  This is a poorly regulated power pack but I'll make due.  Now, notice the voltmeter on the left, 15.90v.  Thats the unloaded output.  Once there is a load, the voltage drops.  This is one reason its difficult to design this style of circuitry.  How far will it drop?  So in this type, it can be done but I didn't use Ohm's Law.  I just made some guesses and looked at the meters.  Here's another reason,  since the current isn't controlled the heat causes it to rise.  So I want the initial current draw to be a little lower.  In this case, there is plenty of cooling by the heatsink and the current didn't raise very much. 

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----------



## screwdriver

This the latest.  Added an extra resistor in parallel.  The 10 ohm resistor resulted in about 250mA of current through each string.  The meter is placed in the circuit reading the over all current of both strings but each string was tested the same.  The resistor placed in parallel is a 15 ohm(oops, looks like an 18 ohm).  Somebody can figure out the new resistance but the result was each side is drawing about 315mA.  I'll leave it there for now. 

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----------



## screwdriver

Here is a new test plant.  Another saved from the trash can. 

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----------



## bombbudpuffa

Screwdriver you're insane! You're going to make an electrician out of me in no time. So, my constant current drivers keep me from having the heat issues you're talking about? What's a good brand multimeter? All I have is a cheap one from harbor freight.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Here's some more pics of the light on. Really bright for 84w(probably a lil less once I get some readings on it). 

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## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Screwdriver you're insane! You're going to make an electrician out of me in no time. So, my constant current drivers keep me from having the heat issues you're talking about? What's a good brand multimeter? All I have is a cheap one from harbor freight.



No,no,no.  Well, maybe in a roundabout way in the last no.  By using the constant current power supply of 600mA you have restricted the amount of heat that will be created by the LED.  Also, the heatsink has sufficient surface area and a fan to dissipate alot of heat.  So in your case, yes, using that 600mA constant current driver is keeping the LED light cool.  BUT, if you used a 1500 mA constant current drivers, you may not be able to dissipate enough heat with that heatsink and fan. Then the LEDs run a little hotter causing possible damage.  Many benefits to keeping the LED cool.

With most stuff, the cooler it runs the better.   Including the drivers. 
In the LED driver for the first string .  The output max is 48vdc @600mA.  Working at the max power it will put out 28.8 watts.  Lets look at the input, 110-265vac  and .2 amps.  Which works out as 24watts.   Well, the above math aint cool, input 24watt, output 28.8watts.  You can't have more output than input.  So, I assume it to be about 24watts power in that package.  Do you want to use it at its max rating or do you want to dial it back a little?  I think of heat, if it will be in some cooling path, is there other little heaters mounted near it, whats the ambient temp where it will be located.  A bunch of stuff.  Maybe I would drop it to 80%.  That 24 watt power pack now is used at about 20 watts of total output power.

The second driver, max output of 27watts.  We have missing input information to help us decide.  So I can guess a max of 25-30 watts.  Other information:  Some thermal specs TA:50c(max),  I take that as the maximum ambient temp this thing wants to live in to work right.  122 farhenheit.  (Whats the temp inside that sealed black box mounted on top of the light where the temp is highest on the light)  With assumtions of heating the max output of the driver drops to the 25watt mark for me.  And 80% of that is 20watts.

The above is just my start guess design, by the time the project ends I would expect the design to draw about 40watts of power for the lights.  An extra 10 watts to generate the 40watts.  Plus an extra 5watts for the fan. For a total of 55watts from the wall.  That should be about 2.2 amps draw on that house circuit.

I think your design uses a little more power.   My guess is 56.88watts total power to run your light with 41.88watts of energy going toward making light.  Of that, most is still heat.

Your little heaters can put out more light but they will get hotter.  

Meters.  If I was rich, I would get a Fluke.  I like how the name sounds, I like the colors they use in their design, I like the shape and features.  They are far more accurate than harbor freight meters.  If you get them calibrated regularly and take care of them.  I buy cheap harbor freight, or the Depot meters because I don't need  3.5 decimal accuracy or anything fancy.  I just need a semi close indication of accuracy.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

You've really got me thinking now. Time to buy me a few different drivers and see how bright I can get this light and still control the heat. Right now...there is zero heat. The light doesn't even get warm. I did think my drivers were 700ma until I started putting the light together.


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> You've really got me thinking now.



Sorry.


----------



## screwdriver

Got the 5 watt LEDs today.  And visible difference but the same size. 

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----------



## screwdriver

Start off by using a little flux.  Check the polarity.  In this design, I didn't make all the LEDs placement direction the same.  I marked the positive and negative sides on the circuit board, rechecked, then started over to make sure I had the LEDs placed correctly before I started to solder. 

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## screwdriver

Action shots.  First solder to board,  clean all the excess flux off the board with alcohol, position heatsink on board and tighten down.  Resolder the LEDs.

The last step was to set the backs of the LEDs flat against the heat sink. 

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## screwdriver

All the LEDs are soldered to the board.  Cut those black squares and put between the heatsink and LED back.  Its a double sided thin sticky tape that is supposed to aid the transfer of heat to the aluminum.  Not the best product but OK. 

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## screwdriver

Here's a pic of the LEDs in action and in the cool tube just as I turned it off.  Its too bright for my camera phone, the pic comes out all blurry.

Even though its bright, I checked the current on the strings and they were all low.  My power supply just didn't cut it.  I have to go out and get a new one then I'll have more specs on the light. 

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## screwdriver

This is the completed light from trash and left overs.  All the LEDs are super glued to the heatsinks.  Doesn't feel that warm.  The hottest spot on the heatsink is on the silver heatsink right above the "full spectrum" LED.  106 F. 

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## screwdriver

Here's the schematic for the little light with voltage drops and currents.  Starting on the left of the image.  The power pack in use had a .23A draw from the wall which worked out at 27.6watts.  The power packs output with the LED load is 12.71vdc at 1.1A.  I measured the total current draw of the circuit by unsoldering the connection in the above picture and placed a meter in line.  The meter was set to read for current.  The other currents were measured doing the same thing but in different areas of the wiring.
The voltage drops were measured across the LEDs and resistors. 

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View attachment Untitled.png


----------



## screwdriver

Testing in cool tube.  Temperature of the center heatsink is about 18 degrees above ambient. 

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----------



## screwdriver

Plenty of action down below.
The leaf that was closest to the light seemed to be curling more.  It was about an inch from the light.  I don't see any damage to the leaf just the curl.  I think the light should kept no closer than 2 inches above the top of the plant. 

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----------



## screwdriver

So if you start out growing a plant that is green then it changes color to purple in its natural growth cycle,  should the light spectrum change to maximize growth when the leaves are purple?


----------



## screwdriver

I cut the hours of the day from 20 to 14 and the flowers started popping thru the canopy.  Ready to set it out in the real world.  May not see it in the picture but the colors seem more vibrant then before. 

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----------



## screwdriver

Here is the first failure on my veg light made with the 1 watt LEDs.  A circuit of 6 blue LEDs went out.  You can see from the picture below that there was a little current flowing thru the burnt out LED causing the other ones to dim.  Easy enough to diagnose and repair.  Removed the bad LED, replace and test.
It probably took longer to remove the mounting chains than to resolder the new LED. 

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----------



## screwdriver

My little 40 watt veg light seems to be working better than the old 70 watt mh.  I had  couple of blue LEDs burn out so I just solder a wire around the LED.  I think the cause is cheap LED but it could also be the heatsink design and the LED maybe overheating.

What I have noticed. 

The leaves feel thicker.
The colors really pop out. (My begonia flowers are more vivid than the flowers that bloom in my front window)
The internodes are tighter,  maybe too close but the plant grows perfectly for the size of my flowering cabinet.
Less power to operate
Less heat in the grow area and easier to manage.

I'm sold on my LEDs for vegging.


----------



## screwdriver

I am stepping out of my little cabinet and into a little bit bigger tent in a closet. 
I found a computer that was going to the recycler so I grabbed the heatsink from the cpu.  In this use I wanted different airflow so I popped the fan off and flipped it over.  Now the air is pulled thru the fins by the fan, then into the duct going outside the tent.  The fan is powered by a power pack from an old router from cable company.  I never seem to throw away the power packs. Anyway, it is a 12vdc @ 1.0amps,  the fan is a 12vdc @ .7amps 

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----------



## screwdriver

I bought a 100w full spectrum LED and lens kit.  The LED is a 34vdc @ 3.0amps.  To mount the LED I used the existing screws on the heatsink and drew up a cover in autocad.  Then printed. 

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----------



## screwdriver

Here's the cover and mounting.  May not be able to tell from the picture but there is some grease between the LED and heatsink. 

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----------



## screwdriver

All lit up. 

View attachment 20171104_162127.jpg


----------



## screwdriver

I just have the vent laying over the top of the fan.  I'm printing an adapter but it ain't done yet.  And a peek thru the window. 

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----------



## screwdriver

This is how the LED is powered.  With the printed adapter in place. 

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----------



## bombbudpuffa

Nice build!


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Here's my latest screwdriver. I'm using 2 citezen clu048 cob chips, 1 4000k and 1 3500k. Theyre being driven at 600ma and pulling a lil under 45w from the wall, 44.2w to be exact. They're so bright I can't believe I wasted so much time with the lil 3w chips. 

View attachment 2017-11-11 17.07.54.jpg


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----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> They're so bright I can't believe I wasted so much time with the lil 3w chips.



I agree.  But the little ones are fun to play with.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> I agree.  But the little ones are fun to play with.



Right now on cobkits.com you can buy the citizen clu048 chips for $9-11 each. They're regularly $20+ and kind of fun to play with themselves. I'm going to build another just as soon as my other components arrive.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Here's a lil light I threw together using a cheap Chinese 20w cob with an integrated driver. Just soldered a 110v ac plug to it, mounted it to a heat sink and it's done. Pulling a lil over 12w from the wall. 

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----------



## screwdriver

I like the idea of the integrated driver, but it does keep all the heat dissipation at the light.  Did you get a reflector or lens for it?  I have a 60 degree on my full spectrum and a 120 degree on a red led.  Still debating if  a lens is necessary, but it looks cool.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> I like the idea of the integrated driver, but it does keep all the heat dissipation at the light.  Did you get a reflector or lens for it?  I have a 60 degree on my full spectrum and a 120 degree on a red led.  Still debating if  a lens is necessary, but it looks cool.



It's just like any other chip that I've played with. It needs a heat sink. No I didn't buy any reflectors. I like the cobs without refkectors. Coverage is better. Here's one I built using lenses but I took the lenses off. 

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----------



## bombbudpuffa

Latest build. 3 citizen clu048 1212 chips running at 1050ma on a dimmable inventronics driver. Pulling 30w from the wall fully dim and 140w from the wall turned up 100%. Using three active heatsinks driven in line by some lil 12v drivers. 

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----------



## screwdriver

I saw this along time ago but finally made one for my lights.  It needs alot of improvements but I'll still be able to look at the spectrum.  Simple design off the internet.  I cut out some pieces of wood to make a box.  Painted the interior flat black.  Theres a divider mounted at about a 30 degree angle with a diffraction gradient placed over a window in the divider.  A USB camera looking through the slide and window to the slit.  A small slit cut into the front panel where the light enters. 

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----------



## screwdriver

This is the spectrum of an old CFL I used to calibrate the spectrometer.  I calibrated the software graph by dragging a couple of pointers to the correct peaks.  One peak is 436nm, that corresponds to the Mercury used in the bulbs.  The second peak is 546nm, also mercury.  Theres no pointer but there is also a mercury peak about 692nm.  In my bulb that peak is about 687nm. 

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----------



## screwdriver

Heres a uv bulb spectrum,  you can see the 436nm peak, slightly off at 437nm and the other at 694nm.  Im too lazy to look up what gases cause the other peaks. 

View attachment 20171206_190615.jpg


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Man, I wish I understood what you were talking about.


----------



## screwdriver

Just looking at the spectrums of some bulbs that are laying around the house.  I really want to see the spectrum of the "Full Spectrum" LED but haven't got that far in testing.  It would also be nice to see the spectrum shape of the other LED colors.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> Just looking at the spectrums of some bulbs that are laying around the house.  I really want to see the spectrum of the "Full Spectrum" LED but haven't got that far in testing.  It would also be nice to see the spectrum shape of the other LED colors.



Yea, I get what your testing for. I'm just not getting how you're doing it. Like the lil box thing. What's that program?


----------



## screwdriver

I just ripped this off the internet, the box is used to shield all the light except a little tiny sliver that goes thru the slit.  The slit width is important in the future but not for now.  The distance of the box slit to camera is also important for future calculations, may be beyond me.  For now, I want the wavelength peaks.  The intensity of a particular wavelength is for the future, baby steps.
The software is Theremino.  A diy place on the internet. Just having phun with photons..
The diffraction gradient splits the light into its rainbow of components with magic.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> I just ripped this off the internet, the box is used to shield all the light except a little tiny sliver that goes thru the slit.  The slit width is important in the future but not for now.  The distance of the box slit to camera is also important for future calculations, may be beyond me.  For now, I want the wavelength peaks.  The intensity of a particular wavelength is for the future, baby steps.
> The software is Theremino.  A diy place on the internet. Just having phun with photons..
> The diffraction gradient splits the light into its rainbow of components with magic.



Gotcha! Any links to the diy? I like magic...especially if it makes pretty lights.


----------



## screwdriver

Theremino.com
The spectrometer software is under the automation link. There is also a pdf showing how to make the box. I dont think there is any dimensions to the box so I just made it like the pictures.  It could use improvements but I just wanted it done.  Now I can tweek here or there to improve.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Thank you!


----------



## screwdriver

This is from the manufacturer of my LEDs. 

View attachment Untitled.png


----------



## screwdriver

Here's my spectrum image for the Full Spectrum, Red 660nm, Royal Blue 440-450nm.
However, I'm not real confident in this spectrometer.  Still trying to  figure out the software too.  Not sure if it retains the calibration after it shuts down or you have to recalibrate each time.  It is semi close to being calibrated. 

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## bombbudpuffa

That's super interesting. 

I just hooked one of these up to a light. Pretty cool to use a remote on them. 

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----------



## bombbudpuffa

The Theremino stuff is incredible. Took a while to find the software and diy but looks simple enough. Going to try it just as soon as I get a new laptop.


----------



## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> The Theremino stuff is incredible. Took a while to find the software and diy but looks simple enough. Going to try it just as soon as I get a new laptop.



That was the hardest part of the project, finding the software.

I saw the dimmer you installed.  For the little 1-5w haven't seen any leaf burn except when within an inch from the full spectrum LED.  The 100w is a little different, wish I would have got a dimmer, but the drivers I bought didn't have that feature.  Getting a little burn at 1.5 feet, safer at 2 feet.  Maybe need to take off the lens.

I would like to see a build with a red, blu, grn   100w LEDs with the drivers that have the remote to change the color spectrum,  then program the appropriate spectrum for the growth cycle.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

screwdriver said:


> That was the hardest part of the project, finding the software.
> 
> I saw the dimmer you installed.  For the little 1-5w haven't seen any leaf burn except when within an inch from the full spectrum LED.  The 100w is a little different, wish I would have got a dimmer, but the drivers I bought didn't have that feature.  Getting a little burn at 1.5 feet, safer at 2 feet.  Maybe need to take off the lens.
> 
> I would like to see a build with a red, blu, grn   100w LEDs with the drivers that have the remote to change the color spectrum,  then program the appropriate spectrum for the growth cycle.



They make the controllers for that for lil or nothing. Throw one together. Need a link?


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## screwdriver

That's going to be a someday project,  I'm still working on yesterday's project not to mention last weeks project is still waiting to be completed.

I dug out some other lights for a quick look at their spectrums.
Fluorescent tube in a work light,
old metal halide,
really old HPS.

All my tests are completed in the least controlled environment.  There is also a reflection that can be seen at times.  Thats all or most of the spikes in the black region.  I think there is also too much light getting thru and over driving the camera. 

View attachment Fluorescent tube.jpg


View attachment Metal Halide.jpg


View attachment HPS warmed.jpg


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## bombbudpuffa

Maybe make the light slot more thin? Loving what you're doing in this thread.


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## screwdriver

bombbudpuffa said:


> Maybe make the light slot more thin? Loving what you're doing in this thread.



Hard for me to make thinner.  Wood isn't the best material to make a thin slot.  It will have to be made from some metal so it can be adjustable.  I may just be able to use a couple of polarizing lens but don't  know if that affects the spectrum.


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## RubyRed

:48:


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## bombbudpuffa

My be a lil sliding door like design where you can adjust the slit.


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## screwdriver

That is the way to do it,  but it has to be precise.  That's the part I have to think about.  I think about how parallel those door have to be, type and shape of material.  I have to make sure it doesn't cause light leaks or more reflections.  

Here is the tube light spectrum.  With a little modifacation to the spectrometer.  I taped a calibrated piece of a milk jug across the slit.  One of the problems with the spectrometer is the length, hard to fit into a little cabinet.  I think it shows a pretty good representation of the spectrum of my tube light. 

View attachment 20170221_190600.jpg


View attachment 20171210_112948.jpg


View attachment 20171210_112559.jpg


View attachment 20171210_112502.jpg


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## screwdriver

This is a good representation of the spectrum from the 43w box. 

View attachment 20170212_083623.jpg


View attachment 20171212_201552.jpg


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## screwdriver

Here's another style,  3500K  50watt  cobs with the driver built in.  
I scavenged the heatsink from a PLC that was heading to the recycle pile.  I printed the end caps to fit a 4 inch flex duct.  Drilled a bunch of holes and tapped to mount the LEDs.  The screws were also from the PLC.  Wired up and plugged in.  They're bright enough. 

View attachment 20171012_084804.jpg


View attachment 20171012_084814.jpg


View attachment 20180323_064508.jpg


View attachment 20180421_171941.jpg


View attachment 20180425_070955.jpg


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## screwdriver

And the spectrum. 

View attachment 50watt cob.png


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