# thinking of   giving LED a try



## DrFever (Aug 9, 2014)

Well after  some  researching   and allot  of bias claims  from   LED growers 
 I  for one am not sold  on LED  anytime soon ,,,  but have decided   to actually    give it a try and see for my own  eyes   results  growth rates  and of course  Yields 
With so many  false  company claims  LED is one really hard  subject  to understand     
 this is what i so far came up with     LED although many claim there by far more  efficient    one would guess  with there 50,000 hr life  expectancy   and actually running  there LEDS know where near  100 percent   but in the   65 percent  range   know wonder   they last longer   there not running really at  full peak  EVER
 Heat  is another misconception    Really i guess if you  running   90 watt  UFO  but in reality  its like  40 watts   there would be no heat   but this is really  FALSE  Claims    cause i have spoke  to many  LED growers  and   They report  to me  saying  that  Heat  is generated  big time  as you get up in wattage LED 
Another thing i have been reading about is   they do not  really  show out put power  on LED  systems ?????  as a grower  i could give a shat about in  put power  its whats  coming out to me that matters    Right ???
 and most importantly   PAR values on  LED   this is a good one   you be surprised sure many led companies will show possibly very high readings By clustering the LEDs closely together and using narrow beam optics, it is very easy for a manufacturer to show an extremely high PAR measurement directly under the fixture. However, unless you are only growing one plant in this exact location, you need to know how much PAR is being distributed across the entire grow area. Since most LED lighting systems centralize the LEDs into a small fixture footprint, these systems naturally produce very high PPFD levels directly under the fixture. However, these light levels will drop significantly as you move the PAR sensor just a small distance from the main fixture housing. 

Then  we get into  the      LED companies mentioning 1 w 3 w 5 w 10 w or the amount of watts drawing wattage of the LED does not tell you anything meaningful about the lighting system&#8217;s performance. Since LED and fixture efficiency varies widely, the wattage of the LED is  in reality  stupid 

So with that all said     it sure puts a cluster  fawk  into deciding  what  LED  is  the one for you   right  my thoughts tho     Do your  Home work before  shelling out  lots of money 
 Now  from what i  have looked at   for LED's  i have broken it down to  possibly   3 different  companies   will study further   as well after talking with these companies   on which one i am going to purchase  and actually    test it  for my self  once an for all  
   Enjoy   here are the links  to the  3  LED  types i am very interested in 

http://www.bmlhorticulture.com/spydr-600-grow-max-spectrum/    my  first choice so far    amazing spread  light bar  set up  really  neat 

http://www.illumitex.com/illumitex-led-products/neosol-ds/  my second  choice    this is the one many claim that is the 1000 Hid replacement 

http://www.topledgrowlight.com/mars-ii-1600w-led-grow-light.html#.U-aFtxBdWVN   my third  choice      1600 watt mars 2  and this one  1/4 price  1600 watts  interesting  for sure 

whats your thoughts people ??


----------



## Rosebud (Aug 9, 2014)

I really liked the Topled until I got a new one that I like even better. I am not at liberty to mention where I got it yet so I am really no help. The topled is nice. Has a veg and a bloom setting.  For my space they said one  would work, I didn't believe them and got 2. not sorry. But i have only had them a couple of months or so, so it is way to early to tell. I do think mine run at full speed or percent. 
I also ran my flower alone which i found out after doing it for a month that is will blow up if you do that... The directions didn't mention that, but in hindsight I should have known. It is good they didn't blow. The fan is only on in veg..


----------



## Locked (Aug 9, 2014)

I was a skeptic and very weary of buying an LED set up. I also have one of the panels from TopLed that Rose has and I am currently in week 7 of Flower with my Larry OG cut. They are more frosty looking this run than the last I did under HPS. But to be honest the yield is down a bit but I am chalking that up to being under lit in a 4x4 tent and not training my plants properly. Even with those mistakes my Larry cut has some pretty big frosty buds. I will be adding another LED light to the mix in the next week or so and then I will be able to do a proper run in a 4x4 tent under LED.


----------



## orangesunshine (Aug 9, 2014)

i too am just about to set up a flower room of LED in the next week or so---the technology is there---from my thimble of knowledge on these i take a leap of faith based on some friends experiences---concensus says we need to look for the proper specific  spectrum's for flower and veg of our herb---the drivers tend to wear out sooner on the less pricey models than the actual led light itself---key is a buying from a reputable company that sells replacement bulbs and drivers that take the place of the ballast


----------



## P Jammers (Aug 9, 2014)

DrFever said:


> whats your thoughts people ??




The passive heat sinks scare me on the first two. Haight was one of the first to try that tech and it failed miserably. That said of the first two I like the second one better. Basically the same wattage, but the light spread is about half and where I think it should be. The first one does allow you to add more bars and power supplies so you could technically build a fixture for that footprint, but at a whole lot of money. There are certainly better deals out there with what I think is better, safer tech.

The Mars lights use 5 watt LED's. They do put off quite a bit more heat than 3 watt diodes so that needs to be a consideration. They do allow more wattage over a smaller space and the spread is not as extreme as the other two. That for sure would be the upside of the three you have listed. The downside at least for me  is that 5 watt LED's are not needed and most of the rest of the LED builders world wide agree.

http://www.theweedblog.com/led-grow-lights-3-watt-vs-5-watt-vs-10-watt/

If you're in to that kind of coin, I think I would add this to your list as well: http://www.hydrogrowled.com/336X-PRO---500W-LED-Grow-Light-P87C60.aspx

I also would put the California light works on the radar.

Lots of ** to wade through on this tech for sure. 

Best of luck.


----------



## DrFever (Aug 10, 2014)

PJ  i herd about the passive  but it does come with  3 year warranty  thats a bonus  was thinking  2 of them   with  6  other  single light bars   run  vertical  or  go  two  72" long and run them on ends   and do a 48 x 96 scrog   either way  looks like its going to be   around  2500  any way you look at it,, Or  go  mars 2   but i hate  the thought of chinese made  crap  there is a reason  1600 mars 2 is  for 650   a Big reason

 PS  PJ  have  you ever herd  of  LED  fixtures  rusting  from inside out ?????   i have herd  a few horror stories   with  fans  from  to humid  environments   GReenhouses etc    i like running my  rooms  high  humidity  in veg and early part of flowering


----------



## MR1 (Aug 10, 2014)

Fever, give one of those expensive ones a try, I would like to see what they can do.


----------



## P Jammers (Aug 10, 2014)

DrFever said:


> PJ  i herd about the passive  but it does come with  3 year warranty  thats a bonus  was thinking  2 of them   with  6  other  single light bars   run  vertical  or  go  two  72" long and run them on ends   and do a 48 x 96 scrog   either way  looks like its going to be   around  2500  any way you look at it,, Or  go  mars 2   but i hate  the thought of chinese made  crap  there is a reason  1600 mars 2 is  for 650   a Big reason
> 
> PS  PJ  have  you ever herd  of  LED  fixtures  rusting  from inside out ?????   i have herd  a few horror stories   with  fans  from  to humid  environments   GReenhouses etc    i like running my  rooms  high  humidity  in veg and early part of flowering



I have "heard" but not seen any rusting. I have run around 8 brands now and have seen no issues in that area.

As far as "cheap Chinese" I think you'll find that no one in the US uses an all US built Diode and to my knowledge every company out there is sourcing internationally.  Most of these companies are Chinese, and they lead the world in the actual tech. US companies are cashing in now because they have had the chance to actually grow with the lights  unlike the Chinese and are making adjustments to get them better. 

And then there are a whole lot of people using sites like Alibaba finding cheap lights not seen in the US, renaming them/branding them and making all kinds of false claims and selling them as a brand new light. 

Saw recently 2 guys get recently called out for that type of thing when their lights started failing almost immediately because they started selling before they were even tested...


----------



## DrFever (Aug 10, 2014)

PJ so you telling me  there is no difference in  a  taiwan made    Diode then a   one made in the USA???? 
 I am also sure there are tons of scams out there,,, As for  my second choice finding the price  really high  for just one unit 
  I am confident  that the lighting  industry mark up is high  so in reality  i am hammering them to lower it  as for being a documented grow   which will be unbiased  and i will do the best i can.

So i am  leaning towards the  BML   spydor    as for the spread     of  36 inch  by  36 inch  the unit itself is  36 x 36  to begin with   and will cover    4 x 4  area    i am not going to really  on something that is smaller   and said to  cover 4 x 4 area  where i think   umol readings will  really suffer  in real time  settings  or  the angles the have them at    makes a  huge difference  in everything     still going to  work on lowering the price of the units 
 As for the passive  cooling  have a read  thinking   the  tech is and will replace   fan cooling  in the near future   

http://www.ledinside.com/knowledge/...cooling_high_power_led_light_engines_20120308


----------



## P Jammers (Aug 11, 2014)

DrFever said:


> PJ so you telling me  there is no difference in  a  taiwan made    Diode then a   one made in the USA????



Actually I said nothing of the kind. There are several colors used in LED's that are not made in the US. It's like a company "claiming" they use Cree diodes, which in some cases they are. Fact is, Cree only makes about 2 of the colors used in say a 7 band array. So the first question to a company using Cree should be, ok so what do you use for the other 6 colors outside of white?

Fact is, If you're being told that a light is using all US diodes and everything else, you are being lied to. 

Lastly, that article is almost three years old when the solid state stuff was about to come out. It failed, and failed miserably. 

Has it been improved?

Guess you better hope it has if you go that route.
:farm:

PS, A good LED light, and by good I mean something that is better than HPS is costly to build. The key is to find one that has been built with integrity with high end parts, and little profit. Even then they are not going to be cheap which should tell anyone in the market.

Good LED's are not cheap, and Cheap LED's are not good.

Did a little checking last night after I saw your links. Those first two lights are way too high on price. They should be half that cost or less. The COB tech is way too new, and to give a 3 and 5 year warranty is insane.

Perhaps you can work a 90 day money back deal on one? Without any proven documentation, I'd hate to play guinea pig to those...

:2cents:


----------



## Dannygrow (Aug 27, 2014)

Maybe you can check the Apache led and area 51 , real good quality ones .Area 51 use cree led chips , cree led chips are the best one in the world . Philips led cann't beat Cree LED chips.


----------



## yooper420 (Aug 27, 2014)

Have used 2 Advanced Diamond Series 300`s for 5 grows. For my money, and yes they are expensive, but worth it in the long run. Very happy with the results. Think I did enough research before I bought them. And yes you can have heat issues with LED`s, I do in the summer. This is because my grow room is very well insulated for growing in the winter. Top, bottom and walls are insulated. Can`t imagine the heat issues with the "hot" lights. My grow room, inside is 7'x7'x7', painted ceiling white. Use back half for growing, so 3.5'x7' gets covered good by the 2 lights. Just my 2 cents worth. Peace.


----------

