# Cloned too many times



## johnnylongjohns (Oct 28, 2012)

I have an old super silver haze strain that has been cloned from a clone, from a clone, from a clone, many times. It seems to be getting weaker root structure and a less of a producer. Is it possible for the strain to become weakened after time? Should i grow a big dense mother plant to try and compensate or bring back that vigor and growth of old? (to clone from) The potency is still there, just not the quanity and growth i am use to seeing.


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## dman1234 (Oct 28, 2012)

IMO, not a chance, something else is causing the change. how many generations would you estimate its been cloned?


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## Locked (Oct 28, 2012)

There are clone only strains that have been passed around for many years and still have the vigor and potency. Like dman said, I would look elsewhere for a reason. jmo


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## Rosebud (Oct 28, 2012)

I have had mom's look terrible. They needed a new pot, some root trim and some food. The clones have never degenerated in potency or anything else.


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## Old Resin (Oct 29, 2012)

In my own opinion-it's better to take your best one and keep it for a mom. I used to make clones-veg them-then make clones before I flipped the lights on the clones I just vegged-so I didn't have to keep a mom-I noticed the same thing-I attributed it to plant stress-and kept a mom. Healthy mom=healthy clone=healthy plant.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 29, 2012)

Rose, I believe he is talking about not keeping mothers, just taking clones from clones.  There is no reason a mother should not be fine for many many years.  

I had a strain that I took clones from clones from clones.....After about 5 years, I noticed some degradation. I do believe that after x number of years, it is possible for clones to lose their vigor.  All the other strains in my closet were doing great, so I really don't think it was anything I was doing wrong.  However, 5 years was a good run and since I do not have room to keep mothers, I will continue to take clones from clones from clones from clones......


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## 7greeneyes (Oct 29, 2012)

my first foray into growing was with "clone only's" and the 45 day skunk we had did indeed destabiliuze after ten yrs or so.

I read an article where Shantibaba says you have to take a cutting of your favored cultivar and grow it outside, thus strengthening it for the next year, then either taking that plant back inside or taking a cutting from that plant...repeat yearly...
One of the only ways not to lose that hybrid vigor in a much loved strain....


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## Roddy (Nov 1, 2012)

Good read so far.......


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## dman1234 (Nov 1, 2012)

a clone is a clone, how can it lose vigor?


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## 7greeneyes (Nov 1, 2012)

imagine taking a xerox of a xerox.....

then copy that xerox then copy that xerox etc etc ad infinitum, you begin to lose focus of what ther intial copy looked like, you lose image fidelity so to speak....

the same happens with the genetics locked within a poly/hybrid, eventually weakening it a point it no longer looks like the same strain....hell doesn't even smell the same....

can't really explain it except for an analogy, and yet a half assed one at that...lol...

I use to call it Hybrid Anemia for lack of a better word....I ga ve back the Skunk cutting to the original Dude and he told me I was wrong and somehow mixed upo strains. yet that was indeed the skunk from yrs b4 :sadfaced:


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## WeedHopper (Nov 1, 2012)

You guys never see the Movie,,Multiplicity? Funny as hell.One of the clones was so dumb he kept pizza in his wallet. He was the 3rd clone.


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## 7greeneyes (Nov 1, 2012)

:rofl:

3rd time today I get to :yeahthat: one of Weedhopper's posts...lol...


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## WeedHopper (Nov 1, 2012)

Thanks 7greeneyes.

On the serious side. I have cloned many times and never had a problem I didnt create, but I didnt clone clones for over a yr at a time. I think it was about 4 times. So Im not sure how it would effect the clones after 5 yrs.


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## 7greeneyes (Nov 1, 2012)

we took ours beyond the 10 yr mark then it all went down the **** chute


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## johnnylongjohns (Nov 16, 2012)

I am at 3 years with this strain. Cloned 5 to 6 times (crops) per year. Do i keep after it? Or, get some fresh strains going to replenish the Haze ??  I have still been hard pressed to find ANYTHING as potent as my Silver Haze.


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## WeedHopper (Nov 16, 2012)

If it aint broke ,,dont fix it.


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## jmansweed (Nov 16, 2012)

The issue of genetic degration has come my way a few times and my only response is my experiences.

I've been cloning my Reclining Buddha since 2001 with no loss to potency or vigor. I also had a pheno of Skywalker I cloned for almost 7 years. At times I had "Moms", one living over 3 years hydroponically, but the majority of the time I clone my clones as well. As most of us, I frequently start new seeds and always put the new strain head to head against Buddha to determine what the most viable strain for my production preferences is. I'm still growing Buddha.

Only a few strains out of the many failures I've had, did I attribute genetic weakness to the problem. Of course there were plenty generally genetically weak phenos that I started and eliminated, however, there were also some interesting plants that simply quite on me. 

I grew DJ Shorts Blueberry for example, she continued to provide me with lesser quality clones every cycle until finally she simply fizzled out. I also had an incredible Bubble Chem slowly become a uni-foliate and eventually loose it's productivity. Both these plants reacted this way while the rest of the garden thrived as usual. Both, at one time, provided rich, quality harvests.

So I suppose my long winded point here is that chances are it is fine and I'd continue the effort if you enjoy growing the strain. IMO it's a rare thing to loose genetic vigor. It simply has not happened to me frequently.....

good luck and I hope her vigor returns!


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## WeedHopper (Nov 16, 2012)

If ya find a piece of pizza stuck in yur planter,,Stop Clonning.


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## johnnylongjohns (Nov 16, 2012)

Good stuff Jman !  Weedhopper: Pizza ??   Huh, did i miss somethng ?:icon_smile:


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## WeedHopper (Nov 16, 2012)

johnnylongjohns said:
			
		

> Good stuff Jman ! Weedhopper: Pizza ?? Huh, did i miss somethng ?:icon_smile:


 
Yeah,,read post#11 above.


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## johnnylongjohns (Nov 17, 2012)

Duh !!  GUess i am slooooowww !!!


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## dman1234 (Nov 17, 2012)

but a clone is a clone, an exact replica. its not very similar but slightly weaker, so 200 generations later isnt it still an exact replica


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## johnnylongjohns (Nov 18, 2012)

Therein of, lies the question............   I suspect many factors come into play on any given plant strain.


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## niteshft (Nov 19, 2012)

I had a Jack Herrer that ended up being discontinued because it lost it's potency. At the moment, I have a couple of cuts of an outdoor plant that started producing 3 fingered leaves and never reverted back. I had the Jack and Purple Diesel do that as well and the leaves were much longer than the original plant. It didn't effect the potency at all but it sure got attention. I reversed the Purp D with the 3 fingerd leaves to collect pollen and dusted the same plant. The resulting seeds produced normal plants.


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## jonesfarm (Nov 20, 2012)

I had a clone of skunk#1 that had been given to me when it was at least 4 years old and I used it in sea of green method.That's 3 cloning mothers per year starting in 1991and it only died of because I left my grow room in incompetent hands for 2 weeks in 2003 and the idiot neglected the crop and  didn't water for the entire time.
 Keep the strongest apical clones as your Mothers and you can go for ever


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