# First time grower using ebb and grow system



## Gooch

I still have everything in packages currently.
I am working with 2 tents, and I would like to create a cycle that can consistently keep me medicated.
I have several hydro units
1- 12 pot ebb and grow system with time controlled feeding, each bucket is 3 gallons i think and my rez is 50 gallon.
1- 6 unit hyndro box which i will likely use for mothers
1 daisy cloner
I have options for nutes also
Floraseries advanced performance nutrient system
Roots organic buddah bloom/buddah grow nutes
Rooting powder 
the system will be powered by 2 600 watt digital ballasts
1 240 watt led
1 250 watt floro, and many cfl's(mothers)


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## zem

i run a perpetual grow with 2x400w flowering, i use 5x36w fluros for veg chamber and a bunch of cfl's only in the cloner to warm it up. i don't really grow mother plants, i just keep the genetics that i want running as clones and flower the bigger plants, this saves a me space and power that i don't really need to be using. the key in running a successful perpetual grow is to have the clones rooted timely at a good rate of success, for that you need to keep healthy moms and a good cloner with right temps and humidity and mediuum. I take clones from the plants as i put them in flowering either the same day or a week into flowering and veg them until i harvest the flowering plants then clone from the previous clones that were vegging and put the veggers in flowering and so on. it becomes quite simple as long as you got your cloning dialed


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## Gooch

Pardon my ignorance but wouldnt a clone of a clone loose something genetically?


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## Gooch

I have a daisy cloner, do you know anything about it? I have a humidifier, what do you use for a medium? I was looking at sure to grow
Sorry for the barrage just so many questions


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## The Hemp Goddess

Gooch said:


> Pardon my ignorance but wouldnt a clone of a clone loose something genetically?


 
No.


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## zem

i use oasis foam cubes for cloning. i heard conflicting reports of stg medium, i'm sure it is not worth its price, as i get almost 100% with much cheaper oasis foam


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## Gooch

can you send me a link for the oasis


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## zem

i buy it locally from florist shops, you should find it by google search in hydro stores


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## Gooch

ok i googled it but i can only but them in bulk for some reason. I dont want a hundred of them lol. I will check the local store see what they have and or offer. I just watched some videos on the sure to grow, but i would like to price all the potential mediums and see whats the most effecient, clean, light, and easy to use.


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## Gooch

on nutes for hydro, do you use organic or chemical?
I have GH flora series performance pack which has 10 different bottles and instructions on when to add what.
I think i am going to run a test cycle on Hermie seeds i got to work out the kinks before i grow my bought seeds


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## zem

start your good seeds. starting with hermies is as if you were expecting to kill your plants.  there  is no need to assume that. you want chemical hydro ferts


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## Gooch

well my reasoning is i spent money on the other seeds and i want to work out any newbie mistakes on something i didnt buy. The hermies were from NYC sour diesel.
I am not trying to kill the hermies i am hoping they are all females and the bud turns out awesome, but again likely running into problems due to newbie syndrom. Just like with my test dirt i am pretty sure she is not doing well i am flushing currently.
I have GH flora series erformance pack which is chemical and that is what i was going to try.


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## Gooch

my current concerns are getting the other tent setup with the new ebb and grow system
Making sure it is working properly, getting a good medium that is light. then i will start to germinate and see how everything works out.
Since i bought this system used i think its smart to sterilize/clean it, any recommendations on cleaning supplies? Tent, buckets, drum, controller.
Also water I have town water that is around a 7 ph I was thinking of a reverse osmosis system.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Do not run unknown seeds.  Bagseed could be from the plant selfing or it could have been pollinated with some stray ditch weed.  This is a 4 month process and it is worth it to get quality seeds.  There is also the fact that hermy seeds react very badly to stress, something that happens a lot with new growers.  It IS worth it to get quality genetics, even for your first grow.    

If you do have hermies and they release pollen, it can be very hard to get rid of completely for subsequent crops.  There is no reason that your first crop should not be a success.


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## Gooch

ok I will cave into the peer pressure :dancing: and use my purchased seeds which are feminized. But i am not understanding how to take it from a seed into the hydro system, i see alot of plugs for clones, but not alot of seed pods


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## zem

Gooch said:


> ok I will cave into the peer pressure :dancing: and use my purchased seeds which are feminized. But i am not understanding how to take it from a seed into the hydro system, i see alot of plugs for clones, but not alot of seed pods



You took the right decision. growing a plant requires patience, and if you did it good, it would suck to not have a decent harvest, only because of bad genetics. 
If I understand it correctly, you have and ebb and flow system with what, hydroton as medium? if you are using oasis cubes or stg or rockwool, the cubes can be transplanted straight into hydroton. if you are using something that needs a pot or container to hold, you can seed them in netpots and transplant that. after transplanting, you just need to make sure that the water level reaches the cube or netpot when you flood. I have a couple of pics one for a clone and another for spinach seeds that were started in oasis 

View attachment 20150630_212940.jpg


View attachment 20150501_005646.jpg


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## Gooch

I have not chosen a medium yet, I looking for lightweight, and clean so I will probably go with STG, and stg makes a clone insert but i did not find a seedling starter. The STG has a 1 1/2" square hole that the clone starter plugs into.


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## The Hemp Goddess

You can use rapid rooters or rockwool cubes to start your seeds and then just put that into your medium. 

What is STG?


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## Gooch

STG is sure to grow http://www.suretogrow.com/
its supposed to be the best, super light, dense rooting, does not affect the ph, clean


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## zem

yeah stg is probably good but pricey, it is white so makes more algae growth, there is no magic medium, if you put stg in cold dry conditions, you would end up in low rates, and if you put soil rockwool oasis peat etc.. in warm humid cloner, you will end with good results jmo


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## Gooch

well i have a tent and it is consistently at around 80 degrees and relative humility of 60%
The reason i wanted to go with stg is because its clean and light, hydrocorn im told can clog systems etc, unless you use really large piping, i can get coco stuff but i am highly allergic to coconut, peanuts, tree nuts etc so i need to be cautious with what i use. I am certainly open to suggestions. I was hoping that the conditions would be a good fit for the STG, plus i believe using the STG i would have to have fewer watering?


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## zem

oh now i get what you're trying to do, that is finding a medium for the ebb and flow, and not just for clones. in this case, the price of stg becomes ridiculous imo i use hydroton with no problems at all, i have a simple net filter on the flood and drain holes that makes it impossible to clog and i just forget about it, never had an issue for many years that way. i use 3/4" hose. rockwool cubes are also an option.


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## Gooch

i understand I dont think it ends being that much more money though its about $6/pot . Is there a good means to control algae? I suspect i will take a look  at rapid rooter and rockwool since both are non organic


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## Gooch

ok I have my ph up and down now, along with a few different testers, Bad news on my soil plant, I think i burnt it up pretty bad, i did  not realize the led put off so much heat i had it really close, I am trying to nurse her back so hopefully everything turns out well.
I need a couple more parts for my tent, some tubing and i will be off to the races


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## The Hemp Goddess

How close do you have the LED?


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## Gooch

5 inches away i hung it vertically and was on the side of the plant, im such a tool, i am not sure she is dead, i am trying to nurse her back now but it appears my soil is a  acidic also at 5.5, i did not have a soil meter before today cause i would have put in some 7 or 8 ph to try to draw it up before giving it 6ph liquid nutes, more rookie mistakes rushing not paying attention even though i thought i was ;-(


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## The Hemp Goddess

Read the directions that came with the LEDs.  I have never heard of any that recommend the light that close.  I keep mine 12-24" away.

Soil?  I thought you were going ebb and flow?


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## Gooch

I have a single plant in soil i used MG, and it was an experiment, i did not mean to burn it at all let alone this badly. This is why i am switching to hydro, i just purchased everything for hydro and i am trying to figure out how to get the seeds started I think i am going to use the paper towl only method, and when the tap is about 1/4" i will put it in the rockwool.
I will soak the rockwool in 1/4 strength seedling.
The GH calls for 
2.5 grow micro, bloom, and rapid start
1 mil floralicious
10 milflorablend
I will 1/4 each of those for the cubes, and maybe even soak the paper towel in it
What do you think of that idea?


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## Gooch

ok questions about nutes for hydro, and i suppose soil also for that matter. I am curious about PPM, is that increased because of the nutes, or is that just the water itself, and how does ones lower/lessen/eliminate? I took a sample of the nutes i have mixed in a 1 gallon jug(1500ppm tap) i used full strength nutes and i was taking the full strength nutes and watering them down. I assume this is the wrong way of approaching it?


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## zem

when you dissolve soluble solids in water, your ppm rises. the correct meaure is EC which is electrical conductivity of the water, the instrument measures that and converts it into ppm (parts per million) so you are basically measuring the concentration of ferts in water. 1500ppm is on the high end, and usually growers don't grow at these levels except some strains in peak flowering. a seedling is grown a bit before beginning to add ferts at low 1/4-1/3 strength and increase gradually. hope this helps


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## NiceBud

I Love the clone aspect. Keeping a good strain moving on. Its just so perfect,


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## NiceBud

MG

There are other time release soils that work better. I get sick root penetration on the kind that drain the best and hold moisture.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Gooch said:


> I have a single plant in soil i used MG, and it was an experiment, i did not mean to burn it at all let alone this badly. This is why i am switching to hydro, i just purchased everything for hydro and i am trying to figure out how to get the seeds started I think i am going to use the paper towl only method, and when the tap is about 1/4" i will put it in the rockwool.
> I will soak the rockwool in 1/4 strength seedling.
> The GH calls for
> 2.5 grow micro, bloom, and rapid start
> 1 mil floralicious
> 10 milflorablend
> I will 1/4 each of those for the cubes, and maybe even soak the paper towel in it
> What do you think of that idea?


 
Soak the rockwool cubes in 5.5 plain water.  I would not use all those nutes on the rockwool.  Seeds are not seedlings.  It is extremely easy to kill fragile little plants that have just popped.


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## Gooch

you don't use any nutes at all in the rock wool? all the videos i have seen from people using rockwool showed they first soak in 5.5 ph, then they rinse and sometimes add .10 of nutes to the rockwool, if i don't give it food in rockwool what will it eat? how will it root?


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## Gooch

I did get some rapid start rooting enhancer 1-.05-1 says 1 tsp per 5 gallons of water


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## Gooch

ok well my first attempt to test the system went well but i am thinking my tent is not made properly for an ebb and flow system as the holes are 12-14 off the floor. The ebb and flow needs to be level so the water travels freely within the system. So now I am going to use the tents for the seedling stage to get them healthy, and growing vigorously within the rockwool. I am going to start with a 2" starter cube, and likly move it up to a 4 or 6 inch block then put it in the clay pebbles i got as the first medium, although it isnt exactly clean it is light. I am going to setup the ebb and flow on the floor inside a room i am building with orca grow film.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Gooch said:


> ok well my first attempt to test the system went well but i am thinking my tent is not made properly for an ebb and flow system as the holes are 12-14 off the floor. The ebb and flow needs to be level so the water travels freely within the system. So now I am going to use the tents for the seedling stage to get them healthy, and growing vigorously within the rockwool. I am going to start with a 2" starter cube, and likly move it up to a 4 or 6 inch block then put it in the clay pebbles i got as the first medium, although it isnt exactly clean it is light. I am going to setup the ebb and flow on the floor inside a room i am building with orca grow film.


 
I don't understand this post....what has to go through the openings that would interfere with the ebb and flow?


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## Gooch

well the tent is not big enough to hold the controller unit which is what pumps water back to the drum.When the water get pumped into the system it goes into the controller box, and all the hoses hook up to the controller box, then connect to the buckets, so the buckets are inside the tent the controller is outside the tent, and since my tent was made before ebb and flow systems were used the holes are much higher. They were used for bringing in and out wires etc..


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## Gooch

so my new plan of attack is to get them started in the tent(2-3weeks) while i build the room out that they will go into, and setup the system on flat ground


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## zem

can't you simply make new holes in the tent to meet the requirements for your watering system? i normally have the control res below the grow chamber which is placed above the res on a table. keeps res temps lower and i can manage the res any time during lights off. i would never place it inside the flowering chamber


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## Gooch

I could cut the tent, but it would ruin it, and it would make it harder to block out all light, Maybe i can try some mcgyver **** and cut grommets into the tent and put plastic pass through's to connect the water, maybe i till try that, or just put a small hole and pass the plastic connector through, I shouldn't hvae to access it though its kind of a set it and forget it, i need access to the drum so i can test water, and add nutes etc..
mine goes from a 55 gallon drum, pumps into the controller that distributes its to the buckets, and floats and timer that shuts off and turns on each


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## zem

imo you are worrying a lot, it is fabric you can make a tight cut and squeeze the hose in, and then duct tape the fabric to the hose. use black lightproof duct tape if required to make it 100% lightproof. if i want to seal duct tape at the end for a permanent fix, i just use some pva with a brush to seal its end


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## Gooch

Yep I think I am going to have to, Thanks for the advice


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## Gooch

ok update, i have cut holes in the tent, I have tested the system and it appears to work well, although i think i am going to buy another controller unit with more floats for backup and safety, mine only has 2 floats, so if the top one fails it will keep filling, and flood out. 
I am going to get some plastic tubs, rather then use the 55 gallon drum. I have germinated the seeds and put them into the rockwool, soon enough i will have seedlings poking up looking for the light. I am going to be gentle and give them floro for the first few weeks increasing the floros each day or 2.
When should i start with the nutes?


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## zem

wait until the first set of new leaves appear then start with 1/3 strength or so.
i use overflow hole with simply a timer and gravity to drain back to the res, this way i need no floaters at all and if timer fails the overflow prevents flooding


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## Gooch

so i noticed that seedlings in hydro are much less robust then seedlings in dirt, I believe its because seedlings in dirt have nutrients at their disposal, and seedlings in hydro just have ph'd water
Both these plants are at a week old 

View attachment IMG_20150828_234936_749.jpg


View attachment week-1.jpg


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## zem

i suspect that the small cube is not dug in deep enough and the taproot reached the ends of it and is having hard time going through the dry zone. make sure the water level is reaching the cube at every flooding and flood it more often. I would definitely place the cube deeper too. at this point I would also add a 1/4 strength to help it too.


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## Gooch

yes i started 1/3 strength and the cube is being flooded, i had just pushed  it into the stones, I also gave 1/3 to the one just popping out so hopefully that one will have better first growth, i suspect i will have to support this first one though at some point


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## Gooch

I also put an air stone in my reservoir not sure if i should have or not but it seemed like a good idea to oxygenate the nutes


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## The Hemp Goddess

I would get that cube buried under the hydrotron.  Rockwool can and does grow algae.

I have never had a hydro seedling lag behind a soil seedling like that.  In fact, my hydro plants usually outgrow my soil plants.


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## Gooch

well my motto is if it can go wrong , with me it will go wrong, this is why i wanted to start with bag seeds rather then the ones i bought but its ok ill pull through this and they will be just fine in the end. I may even buy a cover for it to block uv, I did not want to bury the stem in rocks because its still very fragile


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## Gooch

the pic in the dirt was my MG experiment, then i accidentally murdered her


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## The Hemp Goddess

I think that you should have waited for the plant to be a bit bigger to put into the hydro unit.  I wait until I have very good root growth coming out of the bottom of the cube.  I also bury them in the hydrotron so that the stem is completely buried without any damage to the stem.  As your little baby probably still does not have much root growth, I would pull the cube out and bury it.  Then you can be sure that the cube is getting wet during the flood cycle and you will not have to worry about algae growing on the cube.   

If you are prepared and go into this with the knowledge you need, there is no reason for "everything to go wrong for you" (try to think more positively--negative vibes can bring negative actions).


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## Gooch

unfortunately its not possible to gain the knowledge without performing the tasks, sometimes repetitively. But I am not negative, I know exactly what would happen going in with no real experience, of course its going to be disastrous, but how else can one learn without making the mistakes.
I am very positive, I can make them survive and even strive, and I will learn the lessons for the next grow. Which will hopefully be clones


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## The Hemp Goddess

LOL--not true at all.  You can gain knowledge from others who have gone before you.  You just have to ask and avail yourself to it.  There is absolutely no reason that a first grow need be disastrous.  You can read so you can avoid mistakes.  You truly do not have to make all the mistakes yourself to avoid them.  The more you read, know and ask questions, the better your grow will be.  I know many that had stellar first grows because they studied, asked questions,  and did what experienced growers recommended.


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## Sweetmansticky

Thg is right !! Seeing/ reading about a mistake is enough to instil in you to be weary of making the same mistake


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## Gooch

Not for everyone, every person learns differently, understanding how you learn is vital, i know how i learn, i have all the knowledge and understanding, but still manage to make simple rookie mistakes because its new and i learn from doing. No worries my girls 2 of them that are left will be just fine, or I could kill them both either is possible 

View attachment IMG_20150902_183737_546.jpg


View attachment IMG_20150902_183742_782.jpg


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## Gooch

I am currently running 1/3 of nutes, should i be adding another 3rd, should i change the water? if i change the water what do you usually do with the old nut solution? is it ok to just throw in the drian or should i dump it on plants outside?


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## zem

i dump my water in the drain because i don't like to saturate the garden with chemical ferts. a weekly res change is common practice although i run it for longer, but as a newb, it would be good imo. as for the concentration, i would not give that tiny seedling more than 1/2 strength, 500-600ppm


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## Gooch

well i am currently at 1/3 270ppm i was going to boost it to 2/3 at around 500ppm, but instead i will cut it to 1/2 and 500ppm. both seeds are same age, one seed stretched, and the other seems normal. I was hoping to be able to throw the ferts on my pear tree, but that might not be a good idea. I am currently filling the 2nd container with filtered water, and i will add nutes then ph it to between 5.5 and 6.5. Then i will likely pump the old stuff out into the sewer


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## Gooch

I am also excited to report hat i got my stg (sure to grow) medium in, it cost me $24 for 6 inserts for my ebb and grow. I also was fortunate to find a full out grow using ebb and flow and STG in the 420magazine forums, which gave me some great insights into issues i was trying to find a fix for before i ran into it, like algae, and why the insers sit so low in the bucket etc.. I am about to start germinating the next set of seeds and put them into the STG i think i will try the last 3 seeds and then i will order more seeds, can someone recommend a seedbank in canada? I just used cropkings I was very happy but there is a limited selection


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## The Hemp Goddess

I use Hemp Depot in Canada.  They do not take CC, so you do have to get a MO or send cash, but it is not a biggy to pick up a MO somewhere.  They are handling a lot of different breeders' gear now.  http://hempdepot.ca/


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## Gooch

Updated photos I also started week 1 nutes 100% 

View attachment IMG_20150904_172347_127.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

I have found that my grass in my yard likes it when I dump my res water into the yard. I have not had any issues with it causing any problems for my grass. My mower on the other hand isn't to thrilled about it.


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## Gooch

Thanks hush, I assumed i would leach through , and might be additional beneficial to the trees i have growing but i did  not want to harm them.


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## Gooch

Here is the gh flora series performance pack nutrient schedule 
That I am using 

View attachment IMG_20150905_135600_938.jpg


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I am also excited to report hat i got my stg (sure to grow) medium in, it cost me $24 for 6 inserts for my ebb and grow. I also was fortunate to find a full out grow using ebb and flow and STG in the 420magazine forums, which gave me some great insights into issues i was trying to find a fix for before i ran into it, like algae, and why the insers sit so low in the bucket etc.. I am about to start germinating the next set of seeds and put them into the STG i think i will try the last 3 seeds and then i will order more seeds, can someone recommend a seedbank in canada? I just used cropkings I was very happy but there is a limited selection



 I did alright by these guys: quebecannabisseeds 
Sent an Email transfer, got them in week, discreet, freebies, 8 of 10 popped and are still healthy


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## Gooch

THG and Sopappy thank you both for the suggestions I am looking into both


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## The Hemp Goddess

Please try to find some other nute line than GH.  They were  bought out by Scott's.  The only way we can keep Monsanto from killing our earth is to quit supporting them.


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## Gooch

I understand I am looking for other solutions but the next best is like 4 times the price, do you have any suggestions?
alot of people are recommending technaflora that is the one that is uber expensive


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## Gooch

Today's picture up comes after nute change in friday 

View attachment IMG_20150906_170635_375.jpg


View attachment IMG_20150906_170645_366.jpg


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## Gooch

Tent conditions I currently have 10 cfl's and a 240 watt florescent, temp 23 degree c humidity is 67%. I have 2 going in clay pebbles, although not very clean they are lightweight, and 1 pot with STG in it to see what happens with algae. I am about to germinate another seed to stick in the STG


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## sopappy

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Please try to find some other nute line than GH.  They were  bought out by Scott's.  The only way we can keep Monsanto from killing our earth is to quit supporting them.



Disgusting company. I always liked Scott's products, are they 'Monsanto'? <br/>
If you have a list of companies that you don't support, please post.


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Tent conditions I currently have 10 cfl's and a 240 watt florescent, temp 23 degree c humidity is 67%. I have 2 going in clay pebbles, although not very clean they are lightweight, and 1 pot with STG in it to see what happens with algae. I am about to germinate another seed to stick in the STG



Not very clean? the stuff that settles on the bottom of the bucket(s)?<br>
better there than going through your pump


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## Gooch

I know but comparatively STG has zero  crap at the bottom, it actually makes it all the way back to the tub.
I am going to keep using the GH for now as its what i am currently used to although i am looking into the technaflora, which might even be more simple.


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## Gooch

9pm just started germinating another seed, this one will go into the STG after germination and then into STG as a medium.
also here are some new pics 

View attachment IMG_20150907_211626_315.jpg


View attachment IMG_20150907_211621_056.jpg


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## The Hemp Goddess

Well, I am still using GH, too as I had gallons of it and I am too poor to throw it away.....but I did buy it before Scott's bought them out.  I am at the bottom of the gallons now though.  I do have Jungle Juice sitting on my shelf and some AN pH Perfect.  If I do not like the Jungle Juice, I will probably try the Technaflora.  While nutes may be expensive, when you look at what they cost in relation to what you get, it is not a big deal.

Sopappy, Monsanto, Scott's, and Miracle Grow are all in bed together.


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## Gooch

THG I am noticing a little turning on my leaves of both plants, I am using week1 seedling stage for my nutes although they both  seem to be past that now?room conditions. 24c 69% humidity lights are 15 inches away temp is at height of plant. Ph is a little difficult to get exact as my meter isnt working properly but i have the drops and i try to keep it around a yellow which is 6, they are being fed 4 times a day I have a 15 minute cycle on 4 times a day. 

View attachment IMG_20150907_211621_056.jpg


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## sopappy

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Well, I am still using GH, too as I had gallons of it and I am too poor to throw it away.....but I did buy it before Scott's bought them out.  I am at the bottom of the gallons now though.  I do have Jungle Juice sitting on my shelf and some AN pH Perfect.  If I do not like the Jungle Juice, I will probably try the Technaflora.  While nutes may be expensive, when you look at what they cost in relation to what you get, it is not a big deal.
> 
> Sopappy, Monsanto, Scott's, and Miracle Grow are all in bed together.



Gotchya, _dam, I liked Scott's stuff but I'll _read the label, Monsanto, Scott's, and Miracle Grow


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## jc2010

If the picture shows these were grown with the 3 part jungle juice in Promix. With just to of there additives bud candy and big bud. I ran these at 12ml a gallon of bloom 6 ml micro and 3ml of grow for the bud candy it was 7ml a gallon and I had powdered big bud and used a 1/4tsp per gallon. I also use Apple cider vinegar to bring ph down. Takes about 6mils to get my water to a 5.7 or so hope this helps you out 

View attachment IMG_20140906_162026.jpg


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## The Hemp Goddess

I would try and get the pH down a bit.  With hydro, I like my top end to be 6.0.  I always start lower (5.4 to 5.5) and let it drift up.  There are some nutrients that are just not available at 6.0.  Also, get a new pH meter asap.  Strips are simply not accurate enough.

I think that they do look very good though.  I think that they are happy with the watering cycle.   I see no sign of nute burn, so the strength of the food is okay.  Just work up slowly.


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## jc2010

With the decomposing moss it seems to turn out very good. I will try a little lower on thank you for your insight


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## sopappy

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I use Hemp Depot in Canada.  They do not take CC, so you do have to get a MO or send cash, but it is not a biggy to pick up a MO somewhere.  They are handling a lot of different breeders' gear now.  http://hempdepot.ca/



I thought maybe I'd find that satori everybody talks about here but no luck.<br/> can you get it in Canada?


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## Gooch

Thank you, I can currently only on week one seedling nutes, but this friday i am going to change it to week2 early growth, and as for the meter i am disappointed, I have a blue labs combo meter but the probe is bad, then i get a ph tester by hannah and that one wont read either, I have the solution of 4 and 7 ph and when i try to calibrate it i never stops falling, arrgggg.... I am going to try to get it lower then 6 and hopefully not to low


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Thank you, I can currently only on week one seedling nutes, but this friday i am going to change it to week2 early growth, and as for the meter i am disappointed, I have a blue labs combo meter but the probe is bad, then i get a ph tester by hannah and that one wont read either, I have the solution of 4 and 7 ph and when i try to calibrate it i never stops falling, arrgggg.... I am going to try to get it lower then 6 and hopefully not to low



I found the metres take getting used to, mine still frustrates me but it's just a voltmetre. I think what happens is solution remains on the tip and screws up subsequent readings, you have to rinse well between every reading.<br/>
and the readings are not instant, you have to wait until it settles.


----------



## Gooch

I started germinating a 3rd seed on monday night, today i checked it and had a 1/4 inch taproot which i put into some STG and we will see what happens


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## Gooch

updated images. Tomorrow night i will switch to early growth nutes 

View attachment 9-10-15.jpg


View attachment 9-10-15-2.jpg


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> updated images. Tomorrow night i will switch to early growth nutes



It's a little hard keeping up with you  what are these seedlings sitting in?
just the hydroton pellets? a rapid rooter? another kind of plug?


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## kletus

jc2010 said:


> If the picture shows these were grown with the 3 part jungle juice in Promix. With just to of there additives bud candy and big bud. I ran these at 12ml a gallon of bloom 6 ml micro and 3ml of grow for the bud candy it was 7ml a gallon and I had powdered big bud and used a 1/4tsp per gallon. I also use Apple cider vinegar to bring ph down. Takes about 6mils to get my water to a 5.7 or so hope this helps you out




Apple cider vinegar? Pros and cons of this practice


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## kletus

Oh and the plant great gooch [emoji106]&#127995; I have a blue labs combo. It says to calibrate it monthly. I calibrate mine every other day or so. Otherwise the readings seem to get screwy


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## Gooch

sopappy if you look back to page three you will see them as seedlings in rockwool, i buried the rockwool so as to avoid algae, I have 2 growing inside the rockwool, and i just started a new seedling in STG as an experiment, and i am going to keep the week one nutes going for the STG and then im going to start the 2 in rockwool on week2 early growth nutes you can find the image of my nutes on page 4.

Kletus- Thanks man i appreciate the encouragement as this is my first grow in hydro, i am very happy so far, every day i look I have new growth. I just picked up some co2 in a bag that i am going to unleash on them, untill i can get my hands on a proc02 bucket


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## Gooch

@Kletus what is the apple cider vinegar? please elaborate


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## Gooch

Ok so i just installed a bag of CO2 above my girls its a small bag and likely wont get it to the 1200ppm i need for optimization but i think every little bit counts. I am going to get a cheap tester maybe


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## Gooch

jc2010 said:


> If the picture shows these were grown with the 3 part jungle juice in Promix. With just to of there additives bud candy and big bud. I ran these at 12ml a gallon of bloom 6 ml micro and 3ml of grow for the bud candy it was 7ml a gallon and I had powdered big bud and used a 1/4tsp per gallon. I also use Apple cider vinegar to bring ph down. Takes about 6mils to get my water to a 5.7 or so hope this helps you out



How many gallons is your reservoir that you used 6mil apple cider vinegar?


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## kletus

Ive read about the vinegar but don't anyone that's done it.


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> sopappy if you look back to page three you will see them as seedlings in rockwool, i buried the rockwool so as to avoid algae, I have 2 growing inside the rockwool, and i just started a new seedling in STG as an experiment, and i am going to keep the week one nutes going for the STG and then im going to start the 2 in rockwool on week2 early growth nutes you can find the image of my nutes on page 4.
> 
> Kletus- Thanks man i appreciate the encouragement as this is my first grow in hydro, i am very happy so far, every day i look I have new growth. I just picked up some co2 in a bag that i am going to unleash on them, untill i can get my hands on a proc02 bucket



I swear those pictures weren't there when I went back before hahaha... I am growing in dirt and in water and it's a pain, I would not germinate in that STG if you are DWC, you just can NOT successfully transplant them in to the pellets. It's dirty, and the roots all clump together in to one mass, I tried 4 times now and none took.<br/>
transplanting in to the buckets is stressless with the plugs.<br/>
I sez you will get next to no benefit from the CO2 effort, just feed them gobs and gobs of fresh air.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Gooch, sorry, but I wholeheartedly agree with Sopappy--unregulated CO2 is a waste of time, money, and energy.  Good ventilation with air exchange every minute or more will be more beneficial than those CO2 bags.  This is not a case of where "every little bit helps".  I must be controlled and regulated and you also have to other things when enhancing CO2.  A proc02 bucket is not going to be any better.  At this stage of the game, just get the basics down and don't worry about adding CO2 now.  Unless you do it right, with a tank or generator, controllers, monitors, and regulators, you are just wasting money.  LOL--get some proper pH up and down with the money you save.

I would not use any food products to raise or lower pH.  They break down very very fast and really do not do a good job.  Just get something meant for the purpose that you are using it--pH up and down for horticulture.  Proper pH is critical in hydro and messing around with weak or ineffective things to pH will probably have bad results and cost you more time and money.


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## Gooch

Sopappy they were absolutely there ;-) I am using ebb and flow not DWC. 
THG- hopefully I should have my meter figured out tomorrow, i have already spent a couple hundred on testers and solutions but its a learning process. I will get it, the girls look happy, and from  my limited reading on co2 i believe the average room has around 300ppm of co2 and ideally you need to add around 1200ppm to get up to 1500ppm which is ideal. But they eat co2, so although it is not a significant increase with generators and controllers etc,,,it has to be some type of improvement or not, I am in experimental stage and i need to perform these tests and get results although i appreciate the input.
here is a quote from an article on hight times "Increasing the CO2 level from 400 ppm to as much as 1,500 ppm can increase plant growth by nearly 40 percent"
http://www.hightimes.com/read/cultivation-clinic-co2-can-increase-yields-40


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> ......and i learn from doing. No worries my girls 2 of them that are left will be just fine, or I could kill them both either is possible



:rofl:
I love your attitude, Gooch.


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## Gooch

Its great.. everything i physically touch i break, everything i try that is new i need to make ridiculous mistakes, in order to actually learn the lesson. Its not the easiest way but for the viewing audience it should be enjoyable


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Its great.. everything i physically touch i break, everything i try that is new i need to make ridiculous mistakes, in order to actually learn the lesson. Its not the easiest way but for the viewing audience it should be enjoyable



Yup, it's the hard way. I learn lots of things that way. Lot's do, there's even an expression eh? But I hardly think you're the anti-Midas 
I wasn't laughing at you, just the predicament, been there, done that.


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## Gooch

Well I am laughing at my self, i had a nice plant going in MG and i got a led and didnt look at any instructions just plopped it 5 inches away and burnt her to a crips... literally at 16 inches. I have thick skin and if someone can learn from my lesson then that is great


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## Gooch

just did a nute change and first cycle just finished, I accidentally used late growth formula, hazards of mixing HAF :smoke1: but on a good note i used the formula for 10 gallons but have 17 gallons of water so i think i will be fine, ph is around 5.5 and ppm is 900


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## Gooch

ok so with 1 full day of c02 and 12 hours of a nute change this is what i am looking at. I see new full growth 

View attachment 9-13-15-am.jpg


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Well I am laughing at my self, i had a nice plant going in MG and i got a led and didnt look at any instructions just plopped it 5 inches away and burnt her to a crips... literally at 16 inches. I have thick skin and if someone can learn from my lesson then that is great



Dammit, Gooch, ya gotta read the label hahaha, but sorry about the plant.
Don't get sucked in to thinking that you'll hit on some magical combination of things that gets you superior results. You'll have to literally not give a **** or you won't enjoy this. 
They like helping around here, post your woes!


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## Gooch

Well i wouldnt say i dont give a ****, i morned for 2 full days when i killed her, but **** happens sometimes when you are trying new things, and i am willing to live with the consequences. I am not really looking for a magical combination, more im trying to learn how each interaction produces or doesnt produce results. Then next grow I will change something and see what happens then the next something else etc..
I may have killed the new seedling also, im hoping not we will see if i see new growth. I put it too deep into the STG and the head was trying to find it way out and did not find the hole. Fingers crossed, or ill just start another :confused2:


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## Gooch

on a good note I am at 100% germination


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## Gooch

I just FIMMED the bigger of the 2, so in the next set of pics you should notice that change


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## The Hemp Goddess

I would leave CO2 enhancement until you get some experience under your belt.  Trust me, there is far more to it than simply throwing a CO2 bag in there.  While CO2 can enhance yield, it must be controlled and regulated and there are other factors that must be met.  Those bags are a waste of time, effort and money.  Concentrate on the environment in your space and learning to grow.  If down the road you can get everything you need, you can make your space air tight, you can coordinate your CO2 and exhaust, you have enhanced lumens and your space is dialed in well....then  add CO2, but do it right.

Don't you have ventilation running?


----------



## Gooch

I do not have ventilation running atm because my temps are fine, i have air being pulled in and open ports on the tent to exhaust naturally. But i do have ventilation for when i flip the MH on. Then the heat will start to increase, and i will need venting.
current tent conditions 22c, 70%
Also the bag of co2 was very inexpensive like 20 dollars and it last for 6 months, so it isnt a huge investment or wasting alot of money, and my expectations are not high. But any additional help i can provide i am apt to do


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## Gooch

also on the last image you can see some reddening on the fan leaf stem, should i be concerned?
Edit.. Took a new pic to see a little better maybe 

View attachment red-stems.jpg


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## The Hemp Goddess

Gooch said:


> I do not have ventilation running atm because my temps are fine, i have air being pulled in and open ports on the tent to exhaust naturally. But i do have ventilation for when i flip the MH on. Then the heat will start to increase, and i will need venting.
> current tent conditions 22c, 70%
> Also the bag of co2 was very inexpensive like 20 dollars and it last for 6 months, so it isnt a huge investment or wasting alot of money, and my expectations are not high. *But any additional help i can provide i am apt to do*


 
IMO, this is not really a good thing to do when getting started.  You are far better off to learn the basics and then start getting fancy after you have some experience.  You need to learn what works and what doesn't.  Otherwise you will be buying into every bogus product out there that is supposed to increase yield.  And the CO2 bags are one of those bogus products that are not worth the trip to the store, let alone the $20 you spent.    

How much CO2 does the bag put out?  If you do not know, I would recommend getting an exhaust system set up right away.  A good exhaust system will give you about 300 ppms.  I can pretty much guarantee you that the CO2 bag is not capable of anywhere near that.  

CO2 is not one of those things that a little more helps.  Unless you can get the levels to 1200-1500 ppm, maintain them, coordinate ventilation, and have enhanced lumens it is totally a waste.


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## Gooch

Well it last 6 months so i wont be getting another if i dont like the results. I am working on getting a reading in the tent for what it is producing. I believe mine is alleged to produce 700ppm its the small one, there was a larger one that does over 1000ppm. Regardless i have it already and its in there, we will see what happens


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Well it last 6 months so i wont be getting another if i dont like the results.
> --snipped--



How will you know? Maybe that spectacular yield wasn't the co2. Maybe it was the  the nutes you used or a sweet spot in the room, flawless pH, perfect feeding, ideal temperatures, something in your water, or a full moon?


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## The Hemp Goddess

Gooch said:


> Well it last 6 months so i wont be getting another if i dont like the results. I am working on getting a reading in the tent for what it is producing. I believe mine is alleged to produce 700ppm its the small one, there was a larger one that does over 1000ppm. Regardless i have it already and its in there, we will see what happens


 
I do not know what this bag is made of, but there is no way that something that cost $20 is going to produce CO2 levels of 700 for 6 months.  And the PPMs are dependent on the room size, so unless they mention a specific sq footage, there is no way at all they can tell you what _your_ ppms are.  I hate these a-holes who blatantly lie to make a sale.  It would be totally cool if you could just pop down to the hydro store and buy something for less than $50 that would provide a constant 1000 ppm for 6 months.....but....like you said, you already have it so you of course are going to use it.  I really want to just discourage from buying another.

So how are you going to coordinate this with ventilation when you get where you need ventilation for heat relief?  You have to be close to getting them under the MH aren't you?

I agree with sopappy--you really won't be able to tell if it helped.  Most do not grow with CO2 enhancement and still have magnificent yields.  You just kind of need to take the word of experienced growers that CO2 enhancement requires a tank or generator, a regulator, and a monitor, air tight grow space, coordinated ventilation, enhanced lumens, etc.


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## Gooch

It does specify a room size I got the 4x4 room size and mine tent is 3x3 , there is a 10x10 one also. I had not considered the exhausting  when i turned on the mh light, and how to control the loss, I guess i will put the fan on a timer that keeps the tent a specific temp, or i can exhaust out the top rather then the bottom, and then it wont affect the co2 as it will still fall onto the plants before being exhausted maybe. 
I will eventually have a proper system to regulate the co2 correctly, I am currently not sold on the bag, although i have had significant growth i believe it has to due with nutes and ph more then co2 although i think it is definitely helping
I agree with sopappy also, there is never a way to know, unless i did a separate tent with nothing and see which tent did better. I still want a co2 meter to see what this is doing if anything. I may just use my house co2 detector see what it says the ppm is


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## Gooch

Here are some pictures post fimming
The first picture is one day after fimming/topping full view. The second pic is going to be my mother i believe, and the 3rd pic is a closeup of the surgical area, showing new growth 

View attachment 9-15-15-fimmed.jpg


View attachment 9-15-15-mother.jpg


View attachment 24hours-post-fimming9-15-15.jpg


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## Gooch

I think i am going to change from once every 6 hours or 4 times a day, to once every 4 hours or 6 times a day, I am hoping it will increase growth.


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I think i am going to change from once every 6 hours or 4 times a day, to once every 4 hours or 6 times a day, I am hoping it will increase growth.



Are you talking about top watering here? wow, I thought I was a detail freak , let me know how it goes.
Broken pellets hold water, the solid ones, not so much but they still SEEM damp up to 12 hours later (to me)
:48:


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Here are some pictures post fimming
> The first picture is one day after fimming/topping full view. The second pic is going to be my mother i believe, and the 3rd pic is a closeup of the surgical area, showing new growth



wow, I thought those plants were going to stumble but they look good, nice thick stalk.


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## Gooch

sopappy said:


> Are you talking about top watering here? wow, I thought I was a detail freak , let me know how it goes.
> Broken pellets hold water, the solid ones, not so much but they still SEEM damp up to 12 hours later (to me)
> :48:


No i have an ebb and flow, that means i have a reservoir with say 15 gallons, then i have lets say 3 2 gallon buckets and the controller box is 3 gallons. When the time hits it pumps from the rez into the controller, then from the controller its gravity fed to the pots that fill up for 15 mins, after 15 minutes another switch is activated and the water is pumped from the controller back to the rez there by draining the pots


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## Gooch

sopappy said:


> wow, I thought those plants were going to stumble but they look good, nice thick stalk.


Thanks man i think they are doing ok, there is clearly one with indica traits and one with sativa traits. But they both seem to be doing well, and they seem to be enjoying the 5 watering cycles i may increase it to 6


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Thanks man i think they are doing ok, there is clearly one with indica traits and one with sativa traits. But they both seem to be doing well, and they seem to be enjoying the 5 watering cycles i may increase it to 6



if it ain't broke, don't fix it


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> No i have an ebb and flow, that means i have a reservoir with say 15 gallons, then i have lets say 3 2 gallon buckets and the controller box is 3 gallons. When the time hits it pumps from the rez into the controller, then from the controller its gravity fed to the pots that fill up for 15 mins, after 15 minutes another switch is activated and the water is pumped from the controller back to the rez there by draining the pots



It sounds like I could do ebb and flow with my RDWC, interesting.
Do you have pictures of the buckets and the interconnections?
Or can you do up a quick drawing of the system,?
I'm confused. You leave the water in the buckets for 15 minutes and the roots are dry for 5 hours ?!? they get five 15 minutes baths a day?
and why do you need the controller?


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> It sounds like I could do ebb and flow with my RDWC, interesting.
> Do you have pictures of the buckets and the interconnections?
> Or can you do up a quick drawing of the system,?
> I'm confused. You leave the water in the buckets for 15 minutes and the roots are dry for 5 hours ?!? they get five 15 minutes baths a day?
> and why do you need the controller?



The controller is the brains of the system, you have 1 pump in the controller, and one pump in the rez, inside the controller are floats so when it is full the pump shuts off and as it drains into the pots it fills back up, then they stay submerged for 15 minutes, and then they are without flood for 4 hours 45 mins, but there is additional water and moister in the medium and that is where the roots grow to, in search of food. Also when the water gets pumped out it pull oxygen into the roots through the medium. Its my understanding that the in the root system you want it kept dry, even when growing in dirt you shouldnt water them till its almost bone dry or so i have read 

View attachment ebb-flow.jpeg


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## Gooch

If its something you interested in I can send you a link to a better controller unit, comes with everything in the grey box on the bottom bucket. mine has only 2 floats one for fill one for drain, this unit i found and am going to buy myself comes with 4 floats for backup and safety, I can pm it too you not sure if I can share the link in here or not.
Its probably very easy to adapy your RDWC because the r is recirculating right?


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> if it ain't broke, don't fix it


The problem is i cant find information on other peoples grows, this is why i am making this journal for others who might want to use ebb and flow, there are videos for sure but nothing about feedings, so i am not sure if i should be giving 5 hours between or less or more i dont really know so im taking it in steps i moved it to 5 they liked it, i will let that chill then move it to 6, see what happens.


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> If its something you interested in I can send you a link to a better controller unit, comes with everything in the grey box on the bottom bucket. mine has only 2 floats one for fill one for drain, this unit i found and am going to buy myself comes with 4 floats for backup and safety, I can pm it too you not sure if I can share the link in here or not.
> Its probably very easy to adapy your RDWC because the r is recirculating right?



No, not yet, thanks. I have my re-circulating on for half hour and off for a half hour so I'm thinking the roots do get dry but FIVE HOURS, holy smokes, that's a long time. Is that system your own design? If not, what do they say for cycles?
What is that moisturizer thing all about? it sounds like a drip.


----------



## Gooch

When i did my dirt i let it get crazy dry like i would water it like once every 2 days and she seemed to grow pretty well, until i murdered her. all my fluids flood in the bottom and flow out the bottom there is nothing coming in on top, like a drip. Most recommendations for the ebb and flow is 4 times a day that I have found, unless using a medium like Sure To grow then its once or twice a day because of its retention. The controller is only $119. and then you build the rest yourself. This is not my design its a company called cap I bought it used. I dont use the 55 gallon drum i got a 30 gallon tub instead.


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> When i did my dirt i let it get crazy dry like i would water it like once every 2 days and she seemed to grow pretty well, until i murdered her. all my fluids flood in the bottom and flow out the bottom there is nothing coming in on top, like a drip. Most recommendations for the ebb and flow is 4 times a day that I have found, unless using a medium like Sure To grow then its once or twice a day because of its retention. The controller is only $119. and then you build the rest yourself. This is not my design its a company called cap I bought it used. I dont use the 55 gallon drum i got a 30 gallon tub instead.



Okay, so, you took out an innocent plant, as long as you learned from it hahaha
I went looking for time intervals myself, it's amazing how often it is not mentioned. 5 hours seems too long to me but yet, your plants look fine. I'm going to leave my drip off longer.


----------



## Gooch

I was at 6 hours, lol im thinking if it water it more it will grow faster, but im not sure how all that works exactly im sure there is a point of no gain. I found some that did it once an hour for 15 minutes, some that did it once every 6 hours for 30 minutes, and once ever 4 hours for 30 minutes, so i have changed a few of the cycles to stay on for 30 and others to stay on for 15, so i am at 5 floods, 2 of them at 30 mins

I notice on the potential mother i have leaves acting strange and they are very pointy is that good or bad? 

View attachment 9-18-15-closeup.jpg


View attachment 9-18-15-fi.jpg


View attachment mother-9-18-15.jpg


View attachment mother-9-18-15-side.jpg


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## sopappy

Lift some pellets carefully just before flow time and check on the roots and pellets  for moisture, I don't think you'd want them dry for too long. If they looked dry, i'd shorten the dry cycle.
Oxygen is the magic ingredient you are looking for, I'm assuming you have major bubbling going on in that rez... instead of buying that CO2, you could have bought ceramic air stones 
plants look good


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> Lift some pellets carefully just before flow time and check on the roots and pellets  for moisture, I don't think you'd want them dry for too long. If they looked dry, i'd shorten the dry cycle.
> Oxygen is the magic ingredient you are looking for, I'm assuming you have major bubbling going on in that rez... instead of buying that CO2, you could have bought ceramic air stones
> plants look good



I checked after a couple hours of a dry cycle and there is still plenty of moisture from 2" to the bottom, I also just fired up the MH so I am going to keep an eye on the temps and the distance to plants etc...
I do have a 60 gallon air stone in 15 gallons of water. hopefully that is enough.
You dont think the bushy ones leaves are looking funny?


----------



## sopappy

I left a pot of pellets "drying" all day, they're still dark after 12 hours. I'm still doing half hour on/off though, I want the re-circulating but I've moved my drip to the outside edge of the pot.  
You mean the top two pictures? Yes, I noticed that, new growth too, any brown spots?
Closest thing on growweedeasy I can see is a boron deficiency. 
Can you get a look at the roots?


----------



## Gooch

here is the latest pic its getting worst.
I can pull it out when it floods next if i take it out dry i wont be able to put it back in 

View attachment curling leaves on mother-9-18-15.jpg


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## Gooch

I am thinking it might have to do with my screw up mixing the nutes, i used the late growth instead of early growth, but it was about 2/3 strength, im going to change it up tomorrow


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## Gooch

roots 

View attachment 9-18-roots1.jpg


View attachment 9-18-roots2.jpg


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## Gooch

I am thinking possibly zinc so i lowered my ph a bit, it also looks like heat stress but the temp at plant height is 73f and currently 65% humidity, so i dont think its heat, i have my mh about 2 ft above which should be plenty of space


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## sopappy

oh ****, sorry! I thought you could just lift a bucket. That disturbed them, not good, dam. Boy, i blew it there, sorry Gooch... on the bright side, they look great, no root issues!
I bet you'd do better with rapid rooters too, listen to THG, 
and treat my posts as entertainment, I know just enough to make me dangerous.


----------



## Gooch

no worries she is fine, the roots are not out of the bucket yet as its still only 3 weeks from seedling, and i took it out when it was flooded so it went back in easy peasy, on another note, i changed my nutes from the 6 part gh flora series to just floranova and i took my ppm from 900 down to 600 and my ph back down in the 5's and it seems the new growth is not curling ill give it a day or 2 to verify it. The problem with rapid rooter is its not clean. Next grow is going to be all Sure to grow medium, I bet it will be the best grow i ever do, and per bucket it is 6 dollars, it cost me 50 bucks to fill 3 buckets with clay. so i will save 10/bucket and hours of not having to wash anything, boom!!! 

View attachment nute-change-9-19.jpg


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## Gooch

Damn i have to keep adjusting the ph down, it keeps going above 6 even after i drop it to 5.5, once cycle and it goes up. Is that normal?
I also notices spots on some of the older growth leaves you can see it in the pic


----------



## Gooch

I read in one of the forum posts somewhere that one of the first signs of over watering is curling and drooping, coincidence that i added more floods? i think so. I changed it up to 3 floods for 30 mins each see what that does, along with adjusting the ph down


----------



## BigTree420

Lookin good so far! It's all about trial and error!


----------



## Gooch

Thanks bigtrees420, did you see the leaves on the bushy one? I am thinking combo of over feeding and to high ph so i have addressed both scenarios i moved feeding to once every 8 hours for 30 mins instead of 5 floods for 15mins, and i will keep adjusting the ph down


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## BigTree420

I did see and hopefully adjusting your solution and feeding schedule will take care of that...I have been growing in soil for almost ten years so I don't want to give you any bad advice on your hydro set up - although I have been considering trying one of these systems you are using and that is why I opened this thread up to begin with.  One thing I did note when it comes to your ventilation set-up - maybe I read it incorrectly but you said you are using an inline fan to bring air in and are letting it exit the tent on its own through the vent flaps? In my experience it is better to use your inline fan to exhaust the air out and let air get sucked in through the holes in the tent creating a sort of vacume to draw fresh air in...you want to exhaust more air than you have coming in or you will end up with heat/odor issues down the line.  This is from my own personal experience. But keep up the good work! Everything is deff looking great especially for your first grow!


----------



## Gooch

Well I mis spoke, I have an inline fan that is not being used atm no need very small grow. I am using a dual fan at my screened vent rectangle i have it set to a temp of 75 so it will keep the temp around there, I have one side blowing in filtered air, and the other half blowing out, I am currently at 23c and 57% humidity
Here are some updated pics of the leaves discoloring on my bushy one, and a bunch of post fimming with close to 9 new heads,
I would love to grow in dirt but to date have been unsuccessful, i heard hydro is overall easier so i went this route. The ebb and flow is amazing I think i hit the magical floods on the first shot with the every 6 hours 4 times a day in the clay for 15 mins, when i boosted it up to more feedings, and 900ppm nutes i started having issues, so i dialed it back to 600ppm and now at 3 feedings once every 8 hours but on for 30 mins. I dont think the discoloring will stop in the leaves affected i am just hoping it doesnt happen to more 

View attachment 9-20-15-discoloring-1.jpg


View attachment 9-20-15-discoloring-fimmed-1.jpg


View attachment 9-18-count-the-heads-1.jpg


View attachment 9-18-count-the-heads-2.jpg


View attachment 9-18-count-the-heads-3.jpg


View attachment 9-18-count-the-heads-4.jpg


View attachment 9-18-count-the-heads-5.jpg


View attachment 9-18-count-the-heads-6.jpg


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## Gooch

ok I just had my hannah meter replaced with a new one, and it seems to be working fine now, but apparently i was up the 6's and 7's and I suspect not good enough uptake of the nutes, I have adjusted it down with the new meter fingers crossed


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Damn i have to keep adjusting the ph down, it keeps going above 6 even after i drop it to 5.5, once cycle and it goes up. Is that normal?
> I also notices spots on some of the older growth leaves you can see it in the pic



Let it go to 6, gooch, you're in veg.... 6.0 to 6.3 is great for veg in hydro, worry about 5.7 - 5.9 when yer flowrin'


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> Let it go to 6, gooch, you're in veg.... 6.0 to 6.3 is great for veg in hydro, worry about 5.7 - 5.9 when yer flowrin'


well im not sure because i know zinc, boron, manganese, and iron uptake in the 5.5 range or on that end of the spectrum, and curling can be zinc deficiency also along with ph but if i get the ph down and allow the uptake it will hopefully fix itself


----------



## Gooch

What do you think about the one i FIMMED ?


----------



## Gooch

I believe the majority of my issues might have been due to starting the MH, my humidity went down to 50% with a humidifier running, i went back to straight floros and cfl and the humidity is back to almost 60%, i would like it in the 65 range even 70. I am keeping the nutes between 5.5 and 6.2 at 600ppm till i nurse them back, couple leaves were  getting crispy


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> What do you think about the one i FIMMED ?



eff, I missed it, which picture?


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I believe the majority of my issues might have been due to starting the MH, my humidity went down to 50% with a humidifier running, i went back to straight floros and cfl and the humidity is back to almost 60%, i would like it in the 65 range even 70. I am keeping the nutes between 5.5 and 6.2 at 600ppm till i nurse them back, couple leaves were  getting crispy



If I was under an MH and you pulled me away and stuck me under CFLs, I'd think I was being punished.
Humidity isn't a deal killer, the plants generate all lot of it themselves. Try slowing down your exhaust if you can. I disagree with your higher humidity, maybe for clones.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> well im not sure...



but I read it on the internet, Gooch.  good point
we should have to cite our sources if it's not personal experience


----------



## Gooch

Well the leaves were brittle and dry, so I figured the MH was to much for them at this point, and when i flipped it back to the cfl's and floros the leaves went back to not being brittle. So I am not 100% sure what the problem was the temp was fine in there, only thing that changed was humidity. but even before the humitidy dropped to 50 the leaves were reacting badly to something


----------



## Gooch

I think i am finally on the road to recovery, i see the leaves opening up and its starting to smell nice 

View attachment 9-22-road-to-recovery.jpg


View attachment 9-22-road-to-recovery-1.jpg


View attachment 9-22-closeup-mother.jpg


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> eff, I missed it, which picture?


here is the pic post fim 

View attachment 9-18-count-the-heads-1.jpg


----------



## Gooch

This is going to be an eventful weekend, I am going to pick 4 clones to add to my tent, I am picking up a new controller unit to make a second setup for flowering here is a link to the ebb and flow controller unit i am buying. Then hopefully a month and a half ill be flipping all 6 to flower and starting 6 clones, and on my way to revolving crop


----------



## Gooch

ok so I am back from my side thread asking for help with my leaves, and i have some updated pron 

View attachment 9-27-fimmed.jpg


View attachment 9-27-mother.jpg


View attachment 9-27-fimmed-2.jpg


----------



## Gooch

here is an overall shot of my tent, now with 6 females in it 

View attachment full tent.jpg


----------



## Sweetmansticky

Is that light not a little close for a led? 
Sorry if it's a stoopid question I know nothing about led!


----------



## Gooch

that is a floro not an led and that sir is not a stupid question if you follow my story lol
I do have an led that is not getting used till flower and it will be all the way at the top.
I have 10 or 11 cfl's of various wattages but all daylight, and 250 watt floro, above the floro is the 600 hps but not on


----------



## Sweetmansticky

Ahah I see , I thought you had already set up the led. Nice clean set up you have. When you planing on flipping? And installing led?


----------



## Gooch

I have a second tent that will house 2 600 watt hps, and the led. I think i am not going to use the mh, i dont know i may try it again. I just plopped 4 clones so once they start getting some growth ill move them 5 to the other tent and start 5 more The bushy one i want to use as a mother and get some clones going. So probably 2-3 weeks ill throw them in 12/12


----------



## Sweetmansticky

Nice sounds like your gonna have a nice lil set up.


----------



## Gooch

Well my goal is actually to get perpetual going so I never need to buy it again. I am also learning so I can help sick people grow their own


----------



## Hushpuppy

If you don't have a fan blowing in there, you need to get one to keep the air moving so the plants don't get hot with all those lights. I try to keep at least on small fan on the floor to push the cooler, fresher air up to the plants and blow the warmer, oxygen filled air up and away from the plants.


----------



## Gooch

I do have some fans I will fire them up and get a breeze going


----------



## Gooch

Updated images aka Pron- This is a proper introduction to the new girl who are going berserk, in a good way.
First will be wonder woman#1, then wonder woman#2, then bubbleicious, then hindu Kush
The other two are named fimmed and mother respectively 

View attachment wonderWoman1-9-30.jpg


View attachment wonderwoman2-9-30.jpg


View attachment bubbleicious-9-30.jpg


View attachment hindu-kush-9-30.jpg


View attachment fimmed-9-30-15.jpg


View attachment mother-9-30-15.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

Oh yeah, they are looking much better. It looks like their health has bounced right back. 
There is still a little bit of Mag deficiency showing in the last plant (the leaves have a taco shell fold to them, which is an early sign in some plants of mag def). But if you continue to give them the calmag like we discussed, that will go away and the leaves will flatten out.


----------



## Gooch

That could have also been too close to the cfl i moved the lights up now, next pics in a day or 2


----------



## Gooch

I am still seeing curling but only on new growth and some top stuff, not alot, I am changing water and nutes tonight, I added 4mil/gal this time, then i will dial it back next change to about 3
Wonderwoman-1


Wonderwoman-2

bubblicous


Hindu kush


Fimmed


Mother 

View attachment 10-2-wonderoman-1.jpg


View attachment 10-2-wonderoman-2.jpg


View attachment 10-2-bubbleicious.jpg


View attachment 10-2-hindu-kush.jpg


View attachment 10-2-fimmed.jpg


View attachment 10-2-mother.jpg


----------



## Gooch

I am 30 days in I am thinking about timing the flip to have some bud for christmas/new year, I want to wait till o hallows eve but i think that will put me past new years on harvest, so now I may be thinking of flipping them on the 16th. What does everything think?


----------



## wordwar-ingreenink

Go for it


----------



## Gooch

Yea i think its a good idea, im gonna start taking clones , and get them going.


----------



## Hushpuppy

Typically, they are ok to flip when they get to 6-8wks old. But it is best to watch the top growth and when you see the branches begin to alternate (rather than growing out in pairs where each branch is growing on the opposite side of the stem) then they have reached sexual maturity and are ok to flower.


----------



## Gooch

updated pron just took this pics I will add in the fimmed one later 

View attachment 10-5-wonderwoman1.jpg


View attachment 10-2-wonderoman-2.jpg


View attachment 10-5-bubbleicious.jpg


View attachment 10-5-hindu-kush.jpg


View attachment 10-5-mother.jpg


View attachment 10-5-fimmed.jpg


----------



## Gooch

Hushpuppy said:


> Typically, they are ok to flip when they get to 6-8wks old. But it is best to watch the top growth and when you see the branches begin to alternate (rather than growing out in pairs where each branch is growing on the opposite side of the stem) then they have reached sexual maturity and are ok to flower.


is that 6-8 weeks from seedling pop or from first actual set of leaves? I am searching for pictures of sexual maturity since i have only recently heard of it


----------



## Hushpuppy

That would be from the day that the seedling breaks the soil. There can be a little variation to that depending on the health of the plant from germ to flip, and depending on the strain. Typically the Sativa dominants will take longer to do everything. 

I did a little picture to illustrate the difference in maturity with alternating branches and immaturity with non alternating branches. please forgive my crude pictures  

View attachment plant maturity.jpg


----------



## Gooch

I took a close up of the fimmed one is this alternating? 

View attachment fimmed-staggered.jpg


----------



## Hushpuppy

Yeah it appears from the upper leaves that they are indeed alternating. The lower leaf nodes(and branches) aren't alternating because they grew out when the plant was still immature, so they will never alternate. The new growth is what will alternate.


----------



## Gooch

lol thanks for that info :joint4: That is like expecting the already damaged leaves to go back to normal
I am going to fire up the mh again and see what happens


----------



## Gooch

On the 35th day Gooch Said "Let there Be Light" and it was so.
Now hopefully they are healthy and can drink it up 

View attachment let there be light.jpg


----------



## yarddog

Dang bro.  All those cords make me nervous.  I have all my connections outside the grow.  And also make sure to have the cord where it will not carry a drip to either the device or connection.


----------



## Gooch

Well after only hours under the mh light we have problems 
Well the cords are nt long enough to readch outside and its the veg tent so its on 24, they are all tie wrapped together and secured 

View attachment light issues1.jpg


View attachment light issues2.jpg


----------



## Hushpuppy

What is the temperatures in there after all the lights are turned on? I noticed the reflector fixture for the MH light is a parabolic and isn't enclosed. That leads me to wonder about the ventilation in that space. I personally would ditch the parabolic and get a nice cooltube fixture with a large rectangle reflector. Then I would hook up an exhaust fan to pull the heat from the light out of the space. Then I would remove all of the cfl lights. As it is now, it has to be generating a LOT of heat that isn't able to escape without very good ventilation.


----------



## yarddog

I've seen a huge amount of heat with my hps compared to the t5.  I've got my fan on high now.  Looks like its getting too hot to me


----------



## Gooch

Well the temp at the top of plant is 22c  I raised it to the top and kicked it down to 50 on the ballast and they started recovering I think


----------



## yarddog

That's 71 degrees Fahrenheit.  Not hot at all.   How is your ventilation system?   Lights not too close is it?


----------



## Gooch

Yes I believe the light was to close and i had it on 100%(ballast) So first thing i did was raise it up, and then i kicked the ballast down to 50%, and when i got home today this is what i saw.
order is mother,fimmed,wonderwoman1 then 2, then bubbleicious, then hindu kush 

View attachment 10-7-mother-burnt.jpg


View attachment 10-7-fimmed-burnt.jpg


View attachment 10-7-wonderwoman-1.jpg


View attachment 10-7-wonderowman-2.jpg


View attachment 10-7-bubbleicious.jpg


View attachment 10-7-hindu-kush.jpg


----------



## sopappy

yarddog said:


> Dang bro.  All those cords make me nervous.  I have all my connections outside the grow.  And also make sure to have the cord where it will not carry a drip to either the device or connection.



Here! Here!
Gooch, you gotta tidy that up. You have buckets of water in there.
Are you using GFIs? I'm not sure about on the lights but everything else fer sure. Temp alarms should catch most trips, you wanna be checking the room a lot too anyways (CO2) 
If you put one on the first receptacle from the panel, the rest of the circuit will be protected too.


----------



## Gooch

yes everything is on gfi and separate circuits and i only have buckets of water for 30 minutes 4 times a day, Im pretty sure it was to close to the light and they are feminized seeds so i should have been more delicate with them. Starting it at 50% and up way high would have been smart but i was haf.
Hushpuppy- I do have a cool tube but this is just for vegging, actually this may be the 2nd hood in the flowering room on cool tube and this one along with the led, then all the cfl, and floros will stay on the mother and clones/seedlings


----------



## Gooch

Also none of the cords even come close to touching the floor, they are all supported and connect at the top of the tent, nothing to worry about I have an associates in electronics and i could have been an electrician. I also build voice and data networks, and design/devlop websites and then market them online
Edit!!! There is a fan on the ground, I will put it on a bucket so it is off the floor


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## Gooch

New pron from the normal view to stay consistent in the pictures 

View attachment WW1.jpg


View attachment 10-7-ww2.jpg


View attachment 10-7BBL.jpg


View attachment 10-7HK.jpg


View attachment 10-7-fmmed.jpg


View attachment 10-7-mother.jpg


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## yarddog

Gooch, I have three bubblicious in flower now.  Nirvana seeds.  First week of flower now.  I'll be watching your girls.  


That's me looking through your blinds!!


----------



## Gooch

I got it as a clone, all are clones except the mother and the fimmed those are crown royal seeds from cropking, I got 2 wonderwoman, a bubblicous and a hindu kush as clones


----------



## Gooch

I want to take some clones from the crown royal and get them started, but i think i should wait till they recover a little more


----------



## zem

you would not do that in the middle of flowering now, but it is a good idea to sketch a little plan for outlets and connections that you need in appropriate places


----------



## Gooch

Yes this is just the veg tent flower tent will have allpower on outside, no lights from anything will be in the room, unless its daytime for them. Inn the veg room i just have simple plugs for light outlets, with 5 ft cords i think, so i put the power strip up top tied to the tent that runs the majority of them and another smaller power strip for fans.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Also none of the cords even come close to touching the floor, they are all supported and connect at the top of the tent, nothing to worry about I have an associates in electronics and i could have been an electrician. I also build voice and data networks, and design/devlop websites and then market them online
> Edit!!! There is a fan on the ground, I will put it on a bucket so it is off the floor



I'm a klutz, Gooch, I'd get tangled up in there all the time.


----------



## yarddog

Me too.  I'd ruin everything


----------



## Gooch

well i put it together, so obviously its not an issue for me, I tried many configurations and this is what worked out best. The cords all stay at the height of the lights, so 5 ft off the ground ish. but when you see the flower tent pics you will see a difference.


----------



## Gooch

just ordered 6 new buckets for the flower tent hopefully they come in next week, I will be ordering a new controller tomorrow, my new seeds should be coming in soon, cant wait.


----------



## Hushpuppy

You will find with almost every grow you do, that your setup will evolve. As you do stuff and learn things, and pick up little tricks, you will make changes and adjustments until you have it all dialed in ................ Then you will decide that you want to go bigger, or in a different place and you will start the process all over again :doh:


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> well i put it together, so obviously its not an  issue for me, I tried many configurations and this is what worked out  best. The cords all stay at the height of the lights, so 5 ft off the  ground ish. but when you see the flower tent pics you will see a  difference.



It must look like it, but we're not ganging up on you, Gooch 
If you're as sure-footed as a billy goat, you'll be fine in there!
BUT... neatness counts too
Can you still get those porcelin lamp bases? 
I'd parallel them on a 2 x4 and have just have the one feeder

The plants look great!


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> just ordered 6 new buckets for the flower tent hopefully they come in next week, I will be ordering a new controller tomorrow, my new seeds should be coming in soon, cant wait.



HDPE #2 plastic? 
I mention this because I thought I was oh so clever researching and buying the good stuff but totally dismissed the storage totes I use to  let the water sit and de-chlorinate... I just went down and checked, BOTH were the crappy stuff. Friggen' details.


----------



## Gooch

Well i ordered cap 6 bucket expansion kit so should be the same buckets i have, and i did not think anyone was ganging up on me.


----------



## Hushpuppy

Hey Gooch, I like the avatar pic. "Starry Night"?..... Or "stony night"?


----------



## Gooch

with me every night is a stony one, and every day for that matter, i actually have it on my deskt as an animated gif, but when it resized it killed the animation 

View attachment starey-nights.gif


----------



## Gooch

updated pron 

View attachment 10-10-wonerwoman1.jpg


View attachment 10-10-wonderomwan-2.jpg


View attachment 10-10-bubblicious.jpg


View attachment 10-10-hindu kush.jpg


View attachment 10-10-fimmed.jpg


View attachment 10-10-mother.jpg


----------



## Gooch

I see the tops of the crown royals showing a little stress due to evaporation of liquids, my ppm was at 1400 and my ph was stopped at 5.6 then i noticed i lost a **** ton of water so i filled it back up got the ppm down to 1050 and ph is at 5.8, lets see what happens. I noticed the curling over of the new growth leaves which set off alarms in my hollow head


----------



## Hushpuppy

That's cool animation. I love art, especially when I am high. I went to the Ballet yesterday and took a small bowl of hash with me and burned on the way there. I like the Ballet and a real good buzz makes it fascinating 

I think you did the right thing with the water. They also look to me like they are getting a little hot and/or dry stuffy air on top. Do you have good air movement within the grow space? and good ventilation?


----------



## Gooch

I have one fan pushing out, my temp is 21c and rh is 62, it was as high as 70 before i turned on the fan


----------



## Gooch

I also moved the cfls up because my fimmed one is getting to large, I may have to move her quicker then i had hoped. hope the buckets come in soon


----------



## Gooch

Is it ok to top after sexual maturity is reached? mine are a bit too tall and i think its going to cause a problem in the flower room although that tent is larger. I dont know the general rule of thumb is double plus half if im not mistaken


----------



## zem

if you think they will be a problem in flowering, then they probably will be a problem. Yes you can top, but some strains react differently to it. I top whenever i can and then prune lower parts too in the early days of flowering


----------



## Hushpuppy

If you know its going to be some time before you can move them to flower, you can top them to any level you want (if they aren't Hardcore Indicas, which look like tobacco when growing). You could top them all the way back down to very low, or as far back as there is green growth. I wouldn't recommend that much except for a "mother" plant. But if you want to cut back several nodes to give them another couple weeks of grow time, it shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Gooch

ok so on the 16th i moved the girls into the flower chamber, and have them on 2 600w hps and 1 240 led, fighting highs and lows in temp swings,because its getting colder during the day now when the light is off. I am going to pick up a tiny personal heater to put in the tent and come on when the lights go out, I am also going to get a rez heater as my temp is down to 66 i would like it up the 70 range 

View attachment flower room.jpg


View attachment wonderwoman 1.jpg


View attachment 10-18-bubblicious.jpg


View attachment 10-18-hindu-kush.jpg


View attachment 10-18-wonderwoman-2.jpg


View attachment 10-18-fimmed.jpg


View attachment 10-18-flower-2days.jpg


View attachment 10-18-flower-2days-1.jpg


----------



## Grower13

I see some skills in your plants Gooch........ good work....... now the real show starts........ green mojo.


----------



## Gooch

grower no skill at all this is basically my 3rd attempt in my lifetime i successfully grew 22 years ago once, then i tried again in june killed her in july, tried again in aug and here we are. I appreciate the compliment and hopefully everything works out. I am dealing with some high fluctuations in temp from 90 to 60 so that is not very good i am picking up a heater today to maintain 80ish in there when lights are out


----------



## zem

hey there Gooch, the difference in temps should not be that big and if it is, then I suspect that maybe you have inadequate ventilation


----------



## Hushpuppy

I would agree. You shouldn't have that big of a swing unless the ventilation isn't strong enough when the lights are on. Having a little heat to keep the dark period in upper 60s to low 70s would be good, but not 80s.


----------



## Gooch

yes i agree was intentionally letting the temps get up in the high 80's low 90's and figured a 10 degree swing at night would be good its 20 degree now, my high yesterday was 86 low 63. I am in a basement also so its pretty cold naturally


----------



## yarddog

Gooch, I'm in the same boat as you.   Two weeks ago I was using a open window at night to drop the temps down to the 60's.  Now with window closed, temps fall to 64.   That's with my central heat turned on. My grow swings from about 75 to low 60's.  I Need some heat


----------



## Hushpuppy

You definitely don't want to let them get below 60f until they are in the last stages, and then only if you are wanting some cold colors to show up in strains that will change colors in cold. 
Gooch, If you have them in a tent in the basement then what I like to do is have a room within a room so that I can modify the temps within the outer room to close to what I want the grow room to be so that the air coming in isn't too cold or too warm. I use both ac and heat (depending on the season) and modify the outer room air to upper 60s to lower 70s continuously so that the inner space can stay in the upper 70s.


----------



## Gooch

hush its funny you say that because i put a heater inside the tent and it only comes on when lights go out, but i also had a heater i was going to put in the room the tent is in, but i decided it might be a waste now i am rethinking it, thanks


----------



## Gooch

watering cycles for flowering. I am using ebb and flow should i be feeding when the lights are off, on or both? I currently feeding them every 6 hours as i have been the entire grow stage


----------



## Gooch

is there any light spectrum that can be used that wont disrupt flowering cycles?


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

I have problems in the winter with keeping my flowering space warm enough during the winter during lights out, too.  I usually solve this by putting up a vegging tent next to the flowering tent and use the air from the vegging tent to raise the temps of the flowering tent during the night.  Space heaters are quite expensive to run and the thermostats do not work very well--I usually find the space gets too hot.  So rather than use a 500-1500W heater, I use a 400-600 HPS and exhaust the air from the veg tent to the flowering tent during lights out.  This has worked well for a number of years.


----------



## zem

i normally dont feed when lights are off. anyway, you should get a timer to run the ebb and flow


----------



## Gooch

I have a timer for the ebb and flow i have it set to every six hours, 4 times a day but 2 of those times the lights are off, and i wasnt sure if i should be feeding with lights off?


----------



## Hushpuppy

Im not sure about ebb n flow but I do a variation that is topfeed, and I run mine 4x per 24hrs. 2 of those is during the dark period. I have mine set to water them just before the lights come on, then halfway through the on time and then just before they go off, and finally at the mid point of the off time. You really have to judge it by how dry they get between waterings.

If you want to go into your grow during the dark period, buy a "headlight" that uses green LEDs. The plant will not recognize green light. something like this will work but you have to wear a ballcap. [ame]http://www.amazon.com/MasterVision-308G2G-LED-Light-Green/dp/B001BDIB3S/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1445458251&sr=8-29&keywords=green+flashlights[/ame]


----------



## Gooch

I wonder if i can use my night vision googles would that work, i wasn't sure what it was spreading for a light so i didn't want to use it. I am going to buy the ones you just sent me since its not that much and i would really like to get in and see what the temps are and what the humidity is, my humidity is very low, like 39. I know this is not good it causes the plant to shut down so i am going to put a humidifier in


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Im not sure about ebb n flow but I do a variation that is topfeed, and I run mine 4x per 24hrs. 2 of those is during the dark period. I have mine set to water them just before the lights come on, then halfway through the on time and then just before they go off, and finally at the mid point of the off time. You really have to judge it by how dry they get between waterings.
> 
> If you want to go into your grow during the dark period, buy a "headlight" that uses green LEDs. The plant will not recognize green light. something like this will work but you have to wear a ballcap. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001BDIB3S/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20



far out, be scary for the plant though , 
I just use those green incandescent bulbs. (watch out for readouts and led indicators, you should go into your dark room sometimes, peed me off once or twice)
interesting re recognizing green light... does this mean the plant sees itself as clear (or see-through) and not blocking light at all or maybe not as much as we think.


----------



## Gooch

here is a modification on that [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Hydrofarm-AELC-Active-Green-Light/dp/B003URCBZW/ref=pd_sim_469_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=0SHNN42TJA4T3BSEMTNF&dpID=41zgcB2xg%2BL&dpSrc=sims&preST=_AC_UL160_SR160%2C160_"]item by hydrofarm [/ame]


----------



## Gooch

ok so this is what i am trying. I have hooked up my inline 400cfm fan and variable speed adjuster, I hooked that to the top hole in my tent, I have it being pumped out of the tent room into the basement, I have a humidifier running in the room with the tent but not in the tent, I have a vent hole open to take in the humid air being produced in the room outside the tent. I am trying to keep the humidity and heat at set levels but i dont have a controller for this


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> interesting re recognizing green light... does this mean the plant sees itself as clear (or see-through) and not blocking light at all or maybe not as much as we think.


interesting question but it is a fact the leaves block the beneficial light spectrum because it is absorbing its rays, so green light is not seen in the spectrum used for photosynthesis i believe is what he was saying?:confused2:


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> interesting question but it is a fact the leaves block the beneficial light spectrum because it is absorbing its rays, so green light is not seen in the spectrum used for photosynthesis i believe is what he was saying?:confused2:



Green light is not used for photosynthesis, just red and blue so they don't react to it. I think I'm just hung up on why the leaves are green, coincidence? I don't think so.
:smoke1:


----------



## Hushpuppy

Let me blow your mind a little. Consider this; leaves are not green in the summer, and they don't turn red/orange in the fall. A red car is not red. Blue water is not blue. Color is in the light. To our eyes, different wavelengths of light appear as colors. A red car is one that has pigments in the paint that reflect wavelengths of light that appear to our eyes as red. Healthy leaves have chlorophyll that absorbs multiple wavelengths of light, but they reflect the wavelength that appears green to us. In the fall, the green chlorophyll dies off and leaves only the types of chlorophyll that reflect yellows and oranges. 

I actually tested this as a science experiment for my son's school's science day. I used red, blue and green LEDs inside a fully enclosed box that was painted flat black on the inside. If I placed a blue ball inside the box and shined the blue light, it appeared blue. But if I shined red or green light on the blue ball, it appeared black. I did the same for a red ball, a yellow ball, and a green ball. The green ball appeared blue in the blue light but black in the red light. The reason it appeared blue in the blue light is because green color in the ball is a mixture of blue and yellow. If there is only red light present then the blue, green and yellow balls will not reflect any of the red light from the LED so it appears black.


----------



## yarddog

Very fascinating isn't it! What is reality?   What are we not capable of seeing? Or smelling, or touching???


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Let me blow your mind a little.
> 
> just finishing a bowl of sour deisel, great
> 
> Consider this; leaves are not green in the summer, and they don't turn red/orange in the fall. A red car is not red. Blue water is not blue. Color is in the light. To our eyes, different wavelengths of light appear as colors. A red car is one that has pigments in the paint that reflect wavelengths of light that appear to our eyes as red. Healthy leaves have chlorophyll that absorbs multiple wavelengths of light, but they reflect the wavelength that appears green to us. In the fall, the green chlorophyll dies off and leaves
> 
> I got hung up here wondering if you spelled leaves correctly
> 
> only the types of chlorophyll that reflect yellows and oranges.
> 
> I actually tested this as a science experiment for my son's school's science day. I used red, blue and green LEDs inside a fully enclosed box that was painted flat black on the inside. If I placed a blue ball inside the box and shined the blue light, it appeared blue. But if I shined red or green light on the blue ball, it appeared black. I did the same for a red ball, a yellow ball, and a green ball. The green ball appeared blue in the blue light but black in the red light.
> 
> oops, starting to drift here
> 
> The reason it appeared blue in the blue light is because green color in the ball is a mixture of blue and yellow. If there is only red light present then the blue, green and yellow balls will not reflect any of the red light from the LED so it appears black.



another keeper


----------



## Hushpuppy

Perception is reality. I know you understand what you think you heard me say, but what you don't understand is that what I said isn't exactly what I meant  :doh:


----------



## Gooch

So I made the biggest rookie mistake, I never went into my flower chamber with lights out, apparently i forgot the fan i put in there has 2 blue leds, so this morning i went into the tent and i was like mother Fu^&%r so i taped it off and hopefully it wont have t bad of an effect on them we will see soon. Not sure if it matters but the blue light was on from the first time i put them into flower which was last week


----------



## Hushpuppy

I seriously doubt that will make much difference unless they were shining directly onto the tops of the plants. Those kinds of LEDs are very low power. Plus if the plant sees that light from the beginning of its onset of flower, then it becomes accustomed to it being there and doesn't have the same level of affect on the plants.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> So I made the biggest rookie mistake, I never went into my flower chamber with lights out, apparently i forgot the fan i put in there has 2 blue leds, so this morning i went into the tent and i was like mother Fu^&%r so i taped it off and hopefully it wont have t bad of an effect on them we will see soon. Not sure if it matters but the blue light was on from the first time i put them into flower which was last week



Don't be so hard on yourself, I've been caught on that one lots of times, 
tape falls off led indicators, readouts, keypads, etc ,
you have to go in there 
hold a white card in front of your face. You shouldn't see it.

oh jeeze, I didn't see HP's post, I defer of course, where's that sig line of mine?
but I still like sitting in the dark talking to my plants.


----------



## Gooch

i was hoping that it wouldnt really matter much and im sure it wont, the led was at the medium level not the tops, and i dont see signs yet of hemies, but i thought it might have delayed the budding process, they are pretty bright, and in the mylar tent the whole thing was blue i was like DOH! grabbed the gorrilla tape and got it covered


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> i was hoping that it wouldnt really matter much and im sure it wont, snipped -----



ya, that's that wishful thinking stuff that you (meaning me) do when you're looking at balls thinking hairs are coming hahaha
I had one of two fem seeds go male on me of late, 
only thing I can thing of is 2 'nights' of red glow from two 4 digit temp readouts.


----------



## Gooch

wait till you see my updated pics tonight, i see flowers sprouting all over the place i am ecstatic, with future bud to enjoy


----------



## Gooch

ok here we go check these out and let me know what you think, im a newb and know **** from shadows, so any help is much appreciated. 

View attachment 10-25-closeup-1.jpg


View attachment 10-25-closeup-2.jpg


View attachment 10-25-closeup-3.jpg


View attachment 10-25-closeup-4.jpg


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----------



## Hushpuppy

They look to be flowering to me. The only thing I see that concerns me is the plant in pic 3. It appears to be suffering a deficiency, looks like it needs more magnesium.


----------



## Gooch

actually that one was under athe same ballast that was causing me troubles with the MH I think the ballast is bad or something because all the other plants are fine and all get the same liquid, the other ones around her did not grow as well as the ones under the other hps. So i ordered a new ballast and hopefully that fixes it or i have to get a new hood also


----------



## Gooch

I assume this is not good? this was on the plant that looked bad, it was also getting quite a bit too much water. I cant see anything moving around not sure what it is 

View attachment 10-26-web.jpg


----------



## Hushpuppy

OH NO  SOUND THE ALARMS THE BORG IS ATTACKING. seriously, check real close for tiny spiders as that looks like webbing. If so you need to pull out the big guns right away. They will wipe out your crop in a hurry when they get established.


----------



## Gooch

I have neem oil i was planning on using it when lights go out tonight but i could not find anything moving anywhere? i was using a microscope and it looked like lint but it is the only plant showing this, should i pull her out? its sitting right in front of a fan also


----------



## Gooch

well for sure that plant had a problem, i removed it and sprayed it and saw all kinds of webbing, so i pulled her "leave the gun grab the cannolies"
I have not seen any issues on the others at this point but when lights go out i will be giving them a good soaking with neem


----------



## Hushpuppy

Better safe than sorry when dealing with the Borg. They are a hard bunch to destroy once they are established, from everything I have heard. I have been fortunate to not ever get them in mine, but I have seen them attack other plants and wipe them out quickly. maintain your vigilance as the mites are very tiny and difficult to see. They look like specks of dirt with the naked eye. Do a google image on them to see what they look like.


----------



## Gooch

so worst case scenario can i still use the buds for oil even if i cant smoke it?


----------



## Gooch

and looking closer at the third pic above closer i can see web all over the place on it


----------



## zem

Gooch said:


> so worst case scenario can i still use the buds for oil even if i cant smoke it?



oh no they feed on the bud leaving only their **** behind. the infected part is good for nothinhg


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

First, DO NOT USE NEEM OIL!  Yes, I am shouting.  Neem oil is useless for anything IMO.  It blocks the pores of the plants and does absolutely nothing at all to combat the mites.  At this point you need something strong to combat them.  If you are organic, I would get some SNS 217.  Otherwise, I would get something strong like Forbid, Floramite, or Avid.  You need to get on them fast, but not with neem oil (I would like to see you throw that away completely).

Zem, mites generally feed on the underside of the leaves, sucking the juices out.  They generally do not really feed on the buds, but may be present on buds if you have as bad infestation (and he does).  They do not feed on the buds and leave all their **** behind  however.  The bud is fine to smoke. 

Gooch, hit all the plants ASAP with something that will work (not neem).  You can probably get rid of the mites and have just about as fine a harvest...if you hit them right away with something serious.


----------



## WeedHopper

:yeahthat:


----------



## Hushpuppy

I wouldn't throw away the neem oil. I wouldn't use it for fighting spider mites as it is relatively ineffective. But you could put it in several bowls and place them around your grow space to deter other bugs from coming in. I wouldn't mess with it right now though, you need to focus on something more powerful to wipe out the borg. I would say that since they were only showing on the one plant that you have time to use the SNS but if you begin seeing them on other plants, you may want to break out the heavier guns like Floramite or Avid asap.


----------



## Gooch

thank you guys for providing me with the information i will go to the hydro store tomorrow and see what they have or i will order it online, can i buy it at stores you think?


----------



## zem

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Zem, mites generally feed on the underside of the leaves, sucking the juices out.  They generally do not really feed on the buds, but may be present on buds if you have as bad infestation (and he does).  They do not feed on the buds and leave all their **** behind  however.  The bud is fine to smoke.



oh ok, so I had spiders that ate buds a few times before, they really munched the bud hollow, I assumed it was spider mites, what could that be? I never had leaf only eating spider, so then I guess I never witnessed spider mites, but I am sure I had witnessed those nasty bud eating spiders several times in the past


----------



## Gooch

I picked up a bottle of sns217 and i am going to spray them as soon as lights come on, its a pita to get them out though they are so big now, can i spray them in the tent or is better to take them out and spray them


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

It is better to take them out if you can.  You are going to have to make sure that you spray the entire plant making sure to coat both the tops and bottoms of the all the leaves.  As bad as the webbing is, I would suspect that other plants have mites but the infestation hasn't gotten to the web stage....yet.  I have never seen just 1 plant in a closet infested.

Zem, I do not know what kind of bug/pest you had.  I only seem to get mites up here in the mountains and they do not eat buds.  Spider mites are almost microscopic and don't actually eat plant material, but suck juices out.  Anyone who can help Zem out with what kind of spider eats buds?


----------



## Gooch

ok here is a fairly funny bit of info. I am posting on multiple forums so i get varied advice. on this other forum someone replied to me that they had spider mites and how they got rid of them was to make the humity 80-90% for a couple days and this apparently causes them to die and their eggs to die. 
Now the funny part.
when i switched to 12/12 i put them in a used tent, i cleaned the tent somewhat. but when i put them in i started having some trouble with heat and humidity for like 4 or 5 days my humidity was 80-90% my walls were wet, and i was seeing a problem with the one plant but i attributed it to the light, then i added my exhaust fan, turned the second hps off and got the humidity under control, a couple days later i took the pics which showed the new flowers and the web, i used a magnifying glass on the webbed plant and could not find any movement at all from anything, but i was not going to put the plant back in covered in the web so i killed her, and i am checking every day two three times a day and the rest of the plants are fine and thriving, so i think i might have killed them off mid attack and didn't even know anything had happen, until i took the pics of the flowers.

So if you purchase a used tent start out by raising the humidity in it for a week or so with the lights on, and then clean it and do it again.
I have the chemicals on hand if i need them but i am going to refrain from using them yet


----------



## Gooch

updated pics 

View attachment 10-29-1.jpg


View attachment 10-29-2.jpg


View attachment 10-29-3.jpg


View attachment 10-29-4.jpg


View attachment 10-29-5.jpg


View attachment 10-29-6.jpg


View attachment 10-29-7.jpg


View attachment 10-29-8.jpg


----------



## Gooch

so since i took your advice about buying the pestacide i figured i needed to look more closely to make sure there were not any more spiders even thought they look super happy and healthy. So i cut a couple leaves off and visually inspected them and bam saw the little f&ck#rs and took each out of the tent and sprayed liberally top and bottoms, i also trimmed back a bunch of stuff at the bottom and some fan leaves, is it bad to cut fan leaves now?


----------



## zem

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Zem, I do not know what kind of bug/pest you had.  I only seem to get mites up here in the mountains and they do not eat buds.  Spider mites are almost microscopic and don't actually eat plant material, but suck juices out.  Anyone who can help Zem out with what kind of spider eats buds?



it has been years that I had not seen them, they were light colored very tiny spiders that munched on the buds and moved slowly through the crop, when i tried to spray with weak organic stuff they were spread like crazy, it was better to let them munch on a limited infected area


----------



## Gooch

when is it too late to remove the fan leaves?


----------



## Hushpuppy

Zem; not sure what that was that you had. The insect world is 5x as vast and varied as our world so it could have been a different variety of spider mite or plant eating mite. It could have been tiny caterpillars. There are lots of plant munching critters.

Gooch; it should be fine that you removed some of the leaves. If you have a real "leafy" plant, its not too bad to remove some of the fan leaves during flower but you have to be careful in doing it as it can stress the plant into herming. hopefully, if the genes are strong for that plant(s) then they will survive the stress without herming.

For future reference, the little white spots that I can see on the healthy leaves in the pics that you posted above, those are where the mites have punched their juice sucking straws into the leaves and sucked out the green juice. Thrips and mites will often show that way. With thrips, they typically will start on the bottom leaves and work their way up, leaving the leaves with thousands of little white spots or tiny white trails on the leaves. With the mites, you will often see the little white spots before you see the webs.


----------



## Gooch

Thanks hush and everyone else who helped out, I am checking everyday i am also looking into a more powerful solution as the first spray did not remove them, unless they just stay there and die?


----------



## WeedHopper

Hushpuppy said:


> Zem; not sure what that was that you had. The insect world is 5x as vast and varied as our world so it could have been a different variety of spider mite or plant eating mite. It could have been tiny caterpillars. There are lots of plant munching critters.
> 
> Gooch; it should be fine that you removed some of the leaves. If you have a real "leafy" plant, its not too bad to remove some of the fan leaves during flower but you have to be careful in doing it as it can stress the plant into herming. hopefully, if the genes are strong for that plant(s) then they will survive the stress without herming.
> 
> For future reference, the little white spots that I can see on the healthy leaves in the pics that you posted above, those are where the mites have punched their juice sucking straws into the leaves and sucked out the green juice. Thrips and mites will often show that way. With thrips, they typically will start on the bottom leaves and work their way up, leaving the leaves with thousands of little white spots or tiny white trails on the leaves. With the mites, you will often see the little white spots before you see the webs.



Yeah they kicked my morning glories ace this yr.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

Mites are quite tough to get rid of and to top it off, they develop resistance to pesticides/miticides.  It often takes more than one application to eradicate them.  As you are not growing organic, you may want to look into Forbid, Avid or Floramite.  These products are expensive, but it only takes a little bit.  There are resellers on E-bay who sell small quantities to those of us that only need small quantities.


----------



## Gooch

I am going to try the hippy way first. I ordered 1800 lady bugs I will sprinkle 20-30 per plant at first and see how that goes and add more as needed. or i could put 100 per plant i guess more is better especially since all my plants are being affected including my veg tent which means it was probably on the clones.


----------



## Gooch

I am a little disappointing right now, i have beautiful girls with buds forming but i have no stank yet, when i smell the leaves i cut they stank like crazy. but my grow room nothing


----------



## yarddog

Man can not judge reefer on smell alone.  

Ancient Proverb.


----------



## Hushpuppy

For some strains the florals develop at different times. Some barely have much odor all the way to the end.


----------



## Gooch

I know i just get so jealous when i read everyone elses post talking about how stanky their grow is.


----------



## Gooch

I am still under attack by the borg, but i have a plan of attack now, i am picking up no pest strips tomorrow and i will go lights out for 2 or 3 days completely sealed tent no light no exhaust no nothing. after 2 or 3 days i should have pest free tents


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

I would not recommend this.  First, No Pest strips are quite toxic.  Second, they do not kill spider mites.  Third, your plants really cannot go 2-3 days with no ventilation.  I think your only real option is getting some serious miticide and get it on right now.  You are soon going to be beyond the time you want to use miticides.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I am still under attack by the borg, but i have a plan of attack now, i am picking up no pest strips tomorrow and i will go lights out for 2 or 3 days completely sealed tent no light no exhaust no nothing. after 2 or 3 days i should have pest free tents



Gooch, if you want to try something reckless , I read about a technique tio kill them and I posted it on Doc's thread....  you raise the temperature really high for 20 minutes, I can't recall exactly, maybe google it but it sure seemed plausible to me and a quick-fix or what?

But, like THG said, you don't have much time now, the insecticides are tried and true, but 20 (ATTENDED!) minutes of crazy heat? how risky can that be and what if it works?


----------



## Gooch

sopappy i have had it at 90+ with humidity around the same, and when lights are out i have been kicking the humidity into over drive also, someone had said high humidity kills them also. 
THG are you sure because the packaging says it will kill them and I agree i am fearful of the 2 days no lights, i will still be burping the tent to get fresh air in i just wont be exhausting. Do you think the strips could harm the plant, It says its oderless and kills all insects and listed off a bunch, plus some people have recommended this as they have used it in the past. I am trying not to use hard insecticide this is why i got the lady bugs i figure an army of hunters cant hurt, and i am hoping that the pest strip will work and be done, if not i have lady bugs, if that doesnt work i will have to use the nukes


----------



## Gooch

ok so my current plan of attack is find the no pest strip and use it for 2 days, then i should receive the ladybugs, and i will let them loose after the tent has been aired out, if that doesn't work i am going to get mighty wash made by npk I have heard really good things about it so hopefully by this weekend we will be bug free


----------



## Gooch

well today is an exciting day for me because i took my first clone a little over a week ago and i have waited impatiently for something to happen and tonight i popped it open and bam 2 long roots, omfg i am so excited i just cant hide


----------



## Gooch

here is some updated pron from the flower tent 

View attachment 11-2top-1.jpg


View attachment 11-2top-2.jpg


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

Sorry, but if that is your plan of attack, I am afraid that you will not even begin to eradicate them.  

Yes, I am *sure* than No Pest strips will not kill them.  And believing that No Pest strips are not an insecticide or dangerous is a mistake--it is an insecticide and it is toxic.  But, instead of a quick spray and done, you are letting toxic fumes spread throughout the area of your grow space...and beyond into your living space.  There are tons and tons of products out there that SAY they will kill mites, but few of them actually work.

Lady bugs will not work either.  Their preferred food is not mites and they will only eat them if there is no other food at all around.  They will not eradicate them.  And when I used them, they died and I found dead lady bugs later in the buds--icky and gross.  

Fresh wash will wash some of the mites off, but they will do nothing to get rid of them.

You are at a critical time here.  If you do not get rid of them soon, you are not going to be able to do anything at all as it will be too close to harvest.  I really really recommend hitting them with something serious and quit *****-footing around with ineffective things--that just makes them stronger and harder to kill.


----------



## WeedHopper

Its also my understanding that most the eating is done by the Ladybug Larvae.


----------



## Hushpuppy

I agree with THG on this.


----------



## Gooch

ok I will forgo everything and go nuclear rather then natural, maybe ill try the ladybugs in the flower tent and see what they can do in there. I am going to have to decontaminate the tent after the grow, then move the flowering into that tent and clean out the flowering tent. Makes me regret getting clones, i just wanted to fill out the space


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> ok I will forgo everything and go nuclear rather then natural, maybe ill try the ladybugs in the flower tent and see what they can do in there. I am going to have to decontaminate the tent after the grow, then move the flowering into that tent and clean out the flowering tent. Makes me regret getting clones, i just wanted to fill out the space



Slow down, Gooch, you missed the part about finding ladybug bits in buds.  Yuck


----------



## Gooch

that was a typo i meant in the veg tent with the mother and clones and babies  lol


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

We always try to tell people to sequester clones when they get them from another source to make sure they are free from pests or disease, to prevent this kind of thing.  I am sorry that somehow we did not let you know this.

If you have not purchased the lady bugs, don't.  They will not even begin to eradicate the mites.  It is truly a waste of money.  

Did you try SNS 217?  If not try that.  It is organic and gentler than the others I am mentioning.  If you did and it did not eradicate the mites (doesn't always work for me), I would go with some Forbid, Avid or Floramite.  These are STRONG, so make sure that you follow directions to a tee.  With mites the statement "Whatever doesn't kill them makes them stronger" is absolutely true.  Trying to eradicate them with ineffective measures makes them more resistant to treatment.  It is good to change up treatments.  I have SNS217, Forbid, and Floramite in my arsenal.

Good luck eradicating "The Borg".


----------



## sopappy

The Hemp Goddess said:


> We always try to tell people to sequester clones when they get them from another source to make sure they are free from pests or disease, to prevent this kind of thing.  I am sorry that somehow we did not let you know this.
> 
> If you have not purchased the lady bugs, don't.  They will not even begin to eradicate the mites.  It is truly a waste of money.
> 
> Did you try SNS 217?  If not try that.  It is organic and gentler than the others I am mentioning.  If you did and it did not eradicate the mites (doesn't always work for me), I would go with some Forbid, Avid or Floramite.  These are STRONG, so make sure that you follow directions to a tee.  With mites the statement "Whatever doesn't kill them makes them stronger" is absolutely true.  Trying to eradicate them with ineffective measures makes them more resistant to treatment.  It is good to change up treatments.  I have SNS217, Forbid, and Floramite in my arsenal.
> 
> Good luck eradicating "The Borg".



Which one is the strongest and any idea how long the shelf life is, THG?
I want one sitting in a corner in my room with one of these on the wall. 

View attachment FIRE_EXTINGUISHER--EMERGENCY-EXIT-SIGN_tmb.jpg


----------



## Gooch

Yea im pretty sure i did not discuss picking up the clones it was a spur of the moment thing, and i did not even consider, so live and learn i guess.
if i remove all plants are they still in the grow area or the entire basement, do they only live on plants?


----------



## yarddog

I had mites once.   The kind on a chickens butt.    Bought a fine looking rooster and released him into the pen.   Had mites on them all within .7 seconds.   Well, maybe not that fast.  But it was quick!!!


----------



## Gooch

well i think i may have slowed them down with the sns217, Randomly chosen leaves from each plant show less spiders, but still there, will continue with the sns217 see where it leads, i am also looking into mighty wash which can be used throughout flower stage


----------



## Gooch

I have received the reinforcements and released the first wave into the veg tent, since i already purchased them i figured i may as well see what they can do, only released about 50, will release more later, and then more in the morning. The seem very active on the plant that is for sure, and the info i read says they can eat 4-5 spider mites/day


----------



## sopappy

Now you've got a ladybug infestation. 
In addition to all that stuff THG said, those mothers are MEAN these days, I bet they bite you.


----------



## Gooch

lol its so cool watching them charge all over the plants top side under side, the only food source for them is the spider mites so if they dont eat they dont live


----------



## Hushpuppy

Its a shame you can't get some food and keep them in an aquarium for months and then take them out when you need them. :aok:


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Its a shame you can't get some food and keep them in an aquarium for months and then take them out when you need them. :aok:



I still say he's next on the menu 

are they all males? can you get all males? how ironic. 

View attachment Ladybuglifecycle.GIF


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> lol its so cool watching them charge all over the plants top side under side, the only food source for them is the spider mites so if they dont eat they dont live



man, I'd be having NIGHTMARES going through this, you're a rock!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yBXUSMRCKno


----------



## Gooch

hey man its my first grow and im learning so im happy, they are still budding and and the buds are growing daily, so i am just slowly trimming all the leaves off soon enough they wont have anywhere to be lol or ill get em with the sprays


----------



## Gooch

well im pretty sure that life cycle only matters if they have food to eat, so they better get to eating these spider mites so they can live lol cause that is all thats for dinner for the entire life cycle


----------



## Gooch

Hushpuppy said:


> Its a shame you can't get some food and keep them in an aquarium for months and then take them out when you need them. :aok:


I bet i could the guy where i bought them has  been selling them for 7 years direct, he raises them


----------



## Gooch

updated pics things are moving along nicely 

View attachment 11-6-1.jpg


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----------



## sopappy

ahah! (inhales deeply) The flower tent looks great! what week are you in the pics here? and I can't see if they are in dirt or water.


----------



## Gooch

its hydro currently ending week 3 start week 4 sunday, thats only 4 plants i want 6 to 9 in there think they will fit?


----------



## Hushpuppy

They are looking happy enough considering the bugs being in there. I wouldn't grow more than 4 at a time in a 4x4 or 5x5 tent. I find that plants that are allowed to grow bigger before flowering will be stronger and produce more, bigger, better buds. But that is my opinion.


----------



## WeedHopper

:yeahthat:


----------



## Gooch

yea the one in there that is all stretched was the one i fimmed and it stretched inside the rockwool, the mother which was the best of the 2 is still in the flower tent and im pulling clones off her. the others were clones that i got from outside which is what caused the spider mites lol


----------



## Gooch

I am making a notable change in the res. I drained the res to 2.0ec, I then added in raw phosphorus, and raw amino acids. From what i understand when flowering begins the plant uses more phosphorus and later in the flowering it uses more potassium, but giving more potassium when it doesnt need it or more phosphorus when it doesn't need isnt good. The Raw amino acids are designed to help the plant utilize its nutrients better and allow the uptake of calcium better. This will be a week long experiment and we will see how the plants respond. i wish i could have started this at the beginning of flower but it is what it is ;-). 
if anyone is interested in hearing how the plant uses nutrients throughout its cycle here is alink to a sweet video by a scientist
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BleWpBYweHE


----------



## Hushpuppy

Yeah I did watch that video. It is rather interesting. The one thing you have to remember is that when someone like that is saying "this is the best stuff, this is what you need", they are being paid to sell that product. But He is correct about a lot of what he is saying. The difference in what he has and the nutrients that I have is, my nutes already have all of that stuff mixed up in 3 different bottles in formulated proportions so that all I have to do is adjust the ratio of the 3 parts to get real close to what my plants need, rather than having to go through 12 individual elements(using different amounts of each) to build the nute solution from scratch. 

Some of those things could be handy in some situations but I see it as being more tedious than necessary.


----------



## Gooch

well i think he is saying its the best stuff as in its the most pure, its basically a breakout of the nutes you mix together except the nutes you mix together have nitrites rather then ammonium, this is why he says to half the nutes your using and spoon feed what it needs at various points in the form the plant wants. Well I am learning a ton even if it ignore the products. But i do appreciate you watching and giving me feedback


----------



## Gooch

2 day update with pics, everything is progressing excellent the plants seem to enjoy the change in nutes and their uptake of water is impressive once i cut the nutes I am running at 2.0ec. I picked up mighty wash and holy **** do my plants look great the leaves look great even the ones that were damaged look good, I will give them another spray at lights out tonight. I am also going to work on the mother who has not been treated with anything, im going to take some clones and trim back a ton of leaves. 

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----------



## WeedHopper

Why do they look stretched? Sorry I didnt read the full thread to see what lights your using,,plus im high as hell.


----------



## Gooch

well only one really stretched and that one has given me problems from the seed on with stretching, the others i defoliated due to mites one climbed up to the hps light i have at the top of the tent i know i should have had it closer to them but some were big some were small, but really there is only the one and i fimmed it then it sent shoots out from everywhere


----------



## Hushpuppy

They look real good. Keep giving them what they need and they will give you some fat little nuggets.


----------



## Gooch

I am very happy with my nute/res change I went from 2.8ec to 2.0ec and i have noticed significant water uptake by the plant and i think the buds are getting fatter, every other day i am having to add water to the res just as expected as i was told lowering the salinity of the res will allow more water uptake from the plants. I also suplemented the plant with amino acids to help with the uptake of all nutes, esp calcium, and phosphorus which will help stimulate more bud sites, then at week 5 i will stop the phosphorus and start the potassium supplement, and maintain the 2.0 ec.
HP thank man i really appreciate the kind words, i am attacking with mighty wash which has no smell and makes the leaves shine like a freshly waxed car. I believe i have the spider mites under control in the tent


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> its hydro currently ending week 3 start week 4 sunday, thats only 4 plants i want 6 to 9 in there think they will fit?



That extra stuff you're doing must be working, I start week 6 tomorrow and not nearly as fast growth.

I've never used a tent but plant # depends more on the light, distance and pattern.
I don't think crowding is good but Doc sure crams them in there.


----------



## Gooch

yea but you are doing experiments with mainlining I am just trying to get one under the belt, and i am so happy i found the raw videos because i am beginning to understand the nutrient plant symbiosis, and i may try some soil this summer and do an outdoor, we will see how this one goes and the follow up, then i will be outdoor


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> yea but you are doing experiments with mainlining I am just trying to get one under the belt, and i am so happy i found the raw videos because i am beginning to understand the nutrient plant symbiosis, and i may try some soil this summer and do an outdoor, we will see how this one goes and the follow up, then i will be outdoor



hahaha, that's very diplomatic of you, Gooch, thanks 
I'm "experimenting"... hahaha, wish I could say i was doing that on purpose!

Did you see the docs Kraven left on my thread re nutrition? 
what do you mean by RAW videos? 
(if it's earlier in this thread, disregard, i'll find it.)


----------



## Gooch

weird i thought i posted the video and info about raw-soluble in here, but i cant find it, stoner problem :joint4:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BleWpBYweHE

This video explains how the plant uses the various nutrients that compose all grow/flower solutions, but breaks it out into all the raw ingredients and recommends using half strength nutes and spoon feeding it what it wants at various stages


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> weird i thought i posted the video and info about raw-soluble in here, but i cant find it, stoner problem :joint4:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BleWpBYweHE
> 
> This video explains how the plant uses the various nutrients that compose all grow/flower solutions, but breaks it out into all the raw ingredients and recommends using half strength nutes and spoon feeding it what it wants at various stages



Hoist with his own petard !!!    see 12:50 

I watched the whole thing.... is that RAW line complete or is it meant to augment existing nutes? It's a great concept, heck, 70 acre cuke growers must know of what they speak but if I have to augment existing nutes.... it's useless to me and I'd never buy it. 
Are you trying it?


----------



## Gooch

yes i am using it and he referrs many time to hemp and medicines he knows what his products are used for, he was merely a consultant on the cuke farm. Have you seen the growth in my buds in the last week? all due to his advice cut back on the nutes and spoon feed them what they want, my **** is getting fat, like holy **** fat, pics to come


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> yes i am using it and he referrs many time to hemp and medicines he knows what his products are used for, he was merely a consultant on the cuke farm. Have you seen the growth in my buds in the last week? all due to his advice cut back on the nutes and spoon feed them what they want, my **** is getting fat, like holy **** fat, pics to come



"cut back on the nutes" is too vague for me. 
Can you not pick from his assortment of bags of goodies and mix up a batch appropriate for the timeline? or are you just adding to your own nute routine?


----------



## Gooch

well i am using floranova bloom and i was at an ec of 2.8 and he mentioned cutting nutes in half because the salinity inhibits the uptake of water and minerals so i dropped my ec to 2.0 and added a dash 1/16tsp of phosphorus per gallon, then i added 1/8tsp per gallon of amino acids, and in just a week my bud sites have multiplied and the size and thickness of my flowers are growing daily 

View attachment 11-10-bblicious.jpg


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----------



## Gooch

This coming week i am going to change the nutes keep it at ec 2.0 and add in some kelp and humic acids, then the following week i am going to keep the ec of 2.0 and add in some potassium and calmag along with some amino acids and my **** is going to explode-- i hope

I am currently on day 26 of flower


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> well i am using floranova bloom and i was at an ec of 2.8 and he mentioned cutting nutes in half because the salinity inhibits the uptake of water and minerals so i dropped my ec to 2.0 and added a dash 1/16tsp of phosphorus per gallon, then i added 1/8tsp per gallon of amino acids, and in just a week my bud sites have multiplied and the size and thickness of my flowers are growing daily



I missed the cutting in half part, thanks.
But how do you know what to add and when?
Your girls are pulling ahead and I think you're a week behind me to boot.
Fascinating stuff this spoon feeding but I feel like I'm trying to walk before I can crawl.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> This coming week i am going to change the nutes keep it at ec 2.0 and add in some kelp and humic acids, then the following week i am going to keep the ec of 2.0 and add in some potassium and calmag along with some amino acids and my **** is going to explode-- i hope
> 
> I am currently on day 26 of flower



I'd sure like to try some of that acid.
I'm at day 42, I need a tripod but here's a cola, lots of stem there 

View attachment 42 days.JPG


----------



## yarddog

sopappy said:


> I'd sure like to try some of that acid.


I bet you would.   Haha


----------



## Gooch

yarddog said:


> I bet you would.   Haha


that is a whole other forum lol 
ok you are at day 40ish that is week 5 that means you to get your ppms up to 1000 like yesterday and ph it to 5.5 then if you have a hydro store near you i bet they carry the raw stuff i know the hydro stores near me do go get some potassium, just an fyi this can all be used in dirt or hydro i just dont know anything about dirt but i know he talks about dirt and the various things to use to feed the microbes etc... but for sure right now you want to get your nutes at least 1000, your poor babies are starving


----------



## Gooch

wow I had an adventurous night last night i was watching a class with harley smith plant nutrician 1 and my gfi blew in my tent i run in the room see the mcguyver **** i had going on in the fill bucket got un mcguyvered and blocked the shutoff float, and pumped 10 or 15 gallons into my tent and room etc, it was an amazing class and i was waiting for my question to be answered, and hour later i got everything cleaned up and back in working order and then my pc wouldnt boot, so i went outside smoke a couple bowls while the power was unplugged from my computer and came back in and it booted. Then i get home and after the big blowout i plugged the humidifier into the wrong strip likely due to the bowls, so i had a rh of 85 lol but when i cracked my tent i had a huge smile on my face because the bubblicous the tall one with the stacking buds :watchplant: i tied it up last night cause it was leaning a little, well that little is now a lot lol


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> I missed the cutting in half part, thanks.
> But how do you know what to add and when?
> Your girls are pulling ahead and I think you're a week behind me to boot.
> Fascinating stuff this spoon feeding but I feel like I'm trying to walk before I can crawl.


That is exactly how i feel i have watched the video over 100 times no joke and sat in on several live talks, i am hooked i love it because he isnt really selling his product so much as he is providing me with so much information, i feel like i should be paying him. I only started this a week ago and i only found the video 2 weeks ago, but using the raw materials in hydro is so easy


----------



## Hushpuppy

I think that Raw stuff is bad. It turned that one bud totally blue :doh: :hubba:


----------



## Gooch

Hushpuppy said:


> I think that Raw stuff is bad. It turned that one bud totally blue :doh: :hubba:


yea that is what happen when i tried to add them all together lol 
just an FYI if you got the RAW humic acid it will help to stabilize your ph at the roots


----------



## Hushpuppy

Yeah I noticed that when I watched the video. its something to think about. The only thing is, in hydro, at least with my plants, they seem to do better with the pH drifting continuously.


----------



## Gooch

if its a good ramp then obviously there is nothing to change, I think he was referring to huge spikes usually happens when people use ro water, or distilled


----------



## Gooch

luckily for me i supported that bubblicious cola she is leaning hard lol, I added water and some base nutes but did not add anymore phosphorus as i was going to remove it all this weekend i didint feel it was necessary to add more, this weekend i will incorporate some seaweed and hunic acid, maybe even some vitamin b, then the following week i will start adding the potassium 

View attachment 11-11-cola.jpg


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----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> that is a whole other forum lol
> ok you are at day 40ish that is week 5 that means you to get your ppms up to 1000 like yesterday and ph it to 5.5 then if you have a hydro store near you i bet they carry the raw stuff i know the hydro stores near me do go get some potassium, just an fyi this can all be used in dirt or hydro i just dont know anything about dirt but i know he talks about dirt and the various things to use to feed the microbes etc... but for sure right now you want to get your nutes at least 1000, your poor babies are starving



Nobody is going to believe me but I'm now seeing some browning on the leaf tips starting and I'm at 500, not 1000.
voodoo
I'm still going to 1100 tomorrow.

Nice pictures, the excitement begins!


----------



## Gooch

well then i would suggest first we get your meters reading properly because there is no way you are getting a burn at 500ppm 5 weeks into flowering, unless i am missing something. Without properly working tools there is no way for you to succeed. If you know exactly what your ppm/ec are, and your ph then you can have a grow that will blow your mind.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> well then i would suggest first we get your meters reading properly because there is no way you are getting a burn at 500ppm 5 weeks into flowering, unless i am missing something. Without properly working tools there is no way for you to succeed. If you know exactly what your ppm/ec are, and your ph then you can have a grow that will blow your mind.



I tried to get a picture this morning and it's gone hahaha, it must have been another acid flashback. I was reading about dialing in perfect ppms by watching for first signs of brown so I scoot downstairs and there it is!


----------



## Hushpuppy

But you still forgot to post it :doh:


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> But you still forgot to post it :doh:



I looked again this morning and shrugged it off but my tri-pod arrived this aft. It was a drone and scared the living crap out of me what with having a stealth operation and all....
The leaf that shows it best is out of focus. Nothing really but if I was trying maximize my nutes, it would throw me. 
(I doubled the ppms with no change). 

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----------



## Gooch

o man that one that is all light is starving bad that is like all metals missing or not at adequate levels, im sure she will green up a bit with some real food on the plate


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> o man that one that is all light is starving bad that is like all metals missing or not at adequate levels, im sure she will green up a bit with some real food on the plate



the yellow one on the lower left? naw, she's doomed, I'm already picking at her, can't be any worse than the crap I got today, sheesh

she's one of the neglected back-ups in dirt, paid minor attention to pH, used my old nutes, they all got the same thing and they're in crappy dirt too, I just couldn't put my heart in to it, pre-occupied with the hydro


----------



## Gooch

lol well she could easily come back with a ph adjustment and some nutes ;-)


----------



## Gooch

well sopappy im not afraid to upload images ;-) 

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## Hushpuppy

Gooch, those nuggets are getting fatter and fatter


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> well sopappy im not afraid to upload images ;-)



I thought I posted, I preview and am on to something else  :doh:

these look superb!, I love that pyramid shape they're starting with 
and they look dense,

this is going to sound stupid but how are you lighting those shots?


----------



## Gooch

well the colored ones are under a full spec led 240w, and the others are just in the hps using a mobile app called hdcam


----------



## Gooch

Tonight i am changing the nutes and no longer adding cal/mag i will be at about 900-1000 ppm or 1.7-2 ec I will add 1/16tsp per 2 gallon of potassium and we will see this bitches really start getting dense, I will also be adding amino acids to help with the uptake of minerals


----------



## Gooch

lights off i have higher humidity 60% i think this allows the flowers to take in the moisture externally and lights on i have lower humidty 40-50 i think this allows them to perspire better and when they perspire they uptake nutes


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> o man that one that is all light is starving bad that is like all metals missing or not at adequate levels, im sure she will green up a bit with some real food on the plate



I felt pretty bad about this so I ran some water through her and the runoff pH was 6.5 on the nose. I gave her some of the FloraBloom.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> lights off i have higher humidity 60% i think this allows the flowers to take in the moisture externally and lights on i have lower humidty 40-50 i think this allows them to perspire better and when they perspire they uptake nutes



I wish I could find it but I just was reading lower humidity in flower is good, the chap said he even tries for 20% last couple weeks. I think it had something to do with turpenes.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Tonight i am changing the nutes and no longer adding cal/mag i will be at about 900-1000 ppm or 1.7-2 ec I will add 1/16tsp per 2 gallon of phosphate and we will see this bitches really start getting dense, I will also be adding amino acids to help with the uptake of minerals



You mean bigger, I don't see how they can get any denser.
I'm anxious to see what those Amino Acids do too, that guy had me on the edge of my seat.


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> I wish I could find it but I just was reading lower humidity in flower is good, the chap said he even tries for 20% last couple weeks. I think it had something to do with turpenes.


yes it stimulates the plants natural defense and builds up a coating of crystals to protect itself


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> You mean bigger, I don't see how they can get any denser.
> I'm anxious to see what those Amino Acids do too, that guy had me on the edge of my seat.


The amino acids aid in the uptake of trace minerals and help feed the microbes within the roots to help stimulate them to multiply. I was using them and phosphorus for the first stages of bloom to try and build more bud sites, i think it worked, now i switched it up and i am no longer adding phosphorus and i am instead adding potassium which the plants use to turn the stored energy into sugars for the flowers it is supposed to make the buds grow and grow and grow it was 1.16 tsp for every 2 gallons so very little was used i believe it was a half tsp for the 20 gallons. I dont want to over due it 

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----------



## Gooch

well its only been 1 days but its been to long for me not to post pics.
The buds are super dense, there is a slight fruity smell in the air 

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## Hushpuppy

They are looking quite happy. 

Pappy: yeah it is better to have lower humidity during flower. Especially if you have plants that grow big dense buds like Indicas, you want to keep it very low as they get closer to harvest so that they don't mildew. I lost about a half oz of my best buds from my last harvest because they had got too big and dense and began to rot in the center. And I was keeping my humidity around 50%. I should have had it down to about 30%.


----------



## Gooch

good to know i will keep mine lower also


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> They are looking quite happy.
> 
> Pappy: yeah it is better to have lower humidity during flower. Especially if you have plants that grow big dense buds like Indicas, you want to keep it very low as they get closer to harvest so that they don't mildew. I lost about a half oz of my best buds from my last harvest because they had got too big and dense and began to rot in the center. And I was keeping my humidity around 50%. I should have had it down to about 30%.



I can only dream of having problems like that HP, That's like a woman with large breasts complaining about a sore back, or some porn star worried about his 'blood pressure'.... just trying to cheer you up, HP, the way you grow, you can shrug off a loss like that but it is a heartbreak, the 4 oz monster?

yup, nice looking girls, Gooch


----------



## Gooch

i think my next grow is going to be miles better then this as i adjust due to mistakes


----------



## Hushpuppy

sopappy said:


> I can only dream of having problems like that HP, That's like a woman with large breasts complaining about a sore back, or some porn star worried about his 'blood pressure'.... just trying to cheer you up, HP, the way you grow, you can shrug off a loss like that but it is a heartbreak, the 4 oz monster?
> 
> yup, nice looking girls, Gooch


 
Yeah, it sucks to lose a little from an 16+oz harvest :rant: That was lost from my Blue Dream harvest. The 4.5 was my auto. That one didn't make real big dense buds, just enough to be good


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> i think my next grow is going to be miles better then this as i adjust due to mistakes



Looks like you are totally in to that RAW thing. I can't sign up (TOR) so I'm hoping you do a thread on it.


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Yeah, it sucks to lose a little from an 16+oz harvest :rant: That was lost from my Blue Dream harvest. The 4.5 was my auto. That one didn't make real big dense buds, just enough to be good




Curious. Feminized seeds are bad enough, I never thought I'd buy those, but I do. What's an auto-flower? and why did you buy one?

(ha pardon me, Gooch, I thought I was in my thread.)


----------



## Hushpuppy

Yeah Autoflowers are another genetic variation of MJ. They historically have been lousy smoke producers but new breeding has led to some really decent results. The benefit of autos is that they don't require as long of time to grow and flower. Typically, about 11 weeks from seed to harvest. They also don't require the 12/12 light schedule but rather a 20/4 schedule. I didn't order these, I got them as freebies when I ordered seeds from The Single Seed Center, where I get most of my seeds.

I have had some freebies that were junk but most have been at least decent.


----------



## Gooch

here is some closeup money shots from the hindo kish and one from the crown royal 

View attachment 11-17-closeup-hk1.jpg


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----------



## sopappy

The massive loss of fan leaves sure hasn't seemed to hurt them. You did that in veg though, right?


----------



## Hushpuppy

them thangs got tentacles!!


----------



## Gooch

no i defoiled them around 2 weeks into flower, and right after i defoiled i started using the raw stuff, imagine if i had been using the raw the whole time? take a look at my second grow's root zone after 2 week its pretty amazing i think


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> Looks like you are totally in to that RAW thing. I can't sign up (TOR) so I'm hoping you do a thread on it.



here is a link to the thread i started, please share it with as many people as possible http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72744


----------



## Gooch

Im sorry i dont know what TOR means as a reason for not being able to sign up?


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Im sorry i dont know what TOR means as a reason for not being able to sign up?



TOR is an anonymous (so they say) browser and I can't watch videos with it and I don't want to register an email address.


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> TOR is an anonymous (so they say) browser and I can't watch videos with it and I don't want to register an email address.


ok but its not illegal to watch videos on plant nutrition, is it? why cant you just use a normal browser


----------



## Gooch

2 day picture update, i turned up my nutes to 2.6ec and after 3 cycles it was down a couple gallons and upon refilling the ec was 2.3. 
there are some crown royal pics 

there is wonderwoman1

there is wonderwoman2 

there is the hindu kush
 and my wonderful tie up job 

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----------



## Gooch

ok so i went a little picture crazy tonight but i also tie some of the branches out so i can expose more light to them sort of HST opposite of LST which is done when the plant is more pliable lol did i coin a new term and method? I also hooked up my second sealed reflector and then installed the ventilation to pull the heat out of the lamps in an effort to control the heat and humidity a little better. 

View attachment 11-21-ww1.jpg


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----------



## Gooch

and here is the High stress training during week 5 in flower lol 

View attachment 11-21-cr-hst-anchor.jpg


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----------



## Gooch

Checked the res ec was rising and ph was dropping looked inside and saw the girls drank like sailors on leave, so i added a couple gallons of water, and the ec was at 2.1 so i was happy they took in the nutes and since this is later in flower they are sucking up all the potassium so i added a 1/4tsp of potassium that nudged my ec to 2.2 and took my ph from 5.9 to 5.8 it says 1/16 per 2 gallon so i based it on 10 gallon very small amount added but it only take a little to satiate the needs, to much and it will burn


----------



## Gooch

Today is my picture updating I at the top 3 will be the crown royal, then wonderwoman1 then wonderwoman 2 1 pic each then the hindu kush 

View attachment 11-23--cr1.jpg


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View attachment Copy of 11-23-ww1.jpg


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----------



## Hushpuppy

It looks like there is a lot of amber trichomes in that second to last pic. Have you taken a leaf off to look at it under the scope?


----------



## Gooch

no its the camera i think i hot a button that took an amber photo, i am only week 6 flower on hindu kush which i believe is typically 8-9, as a matter of fact the picture above it is the same spot just not microscoped
hrmmm i wasnt even looking but now i think i see what you mean you were looking at the second to last pic I will cut a leaf off when lights come on to look closer seems very early day 39 flower


----------



## Gooch

ok so i pulled a leaf checked her its all clear, check at the bud also all clear but holy **** is there a sea of trichs


----------



## Grower13

looking good Gooch.......... going to be a great winter:48:


----------



## Gooch

Thanks G13 i am hoping i can keep it together for just a couple more weeks lol I am lagging behind in my second grow, i was hoping to have 6 plants going for the next cycle but it looks like 5 might be the number again if i an get the other 2 clones to root, or else i will have to get some external clones again bu i will be more cautious and inspecting


----------



## Gooch

picture update time we start with wonder woman 1 then 2 then crown royal and finally hindu kush 

View attachment 11-26-ww1.jpg


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----------



## Hushpuppy

Oh yeah  that last one looks killer It looks like an RPG 

It ironic that I could see amber trichs in your pictures but I can rarely see them in my leaves unless I take the leaves outside in the sunlight to see the amber.


----------



## Gooch

I think its a trick with the lighting because then i am on the other side of the tent the pics come out light, but that side of the tent is always red, i am not an optics expert i just think its weird


----------



## Gooch

I think i have 2 full weeks left, I am not sure how to approach finishing them, should i flush, should i not, should i only flush a day or 2 before i pull them is it different because i am in ebb and flow?


----------



## Gooch

is it detrimental to top my mother plant I would like to take about 8 nodes no major shoots, the stem is 1/2"-3/4""thick where i want to top it, I am going to put her in the flower tent next cycle in about 4-5 weeks 

View attachment 11-27-mother-stem.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I think i have 2 full weeks left, I am not sure how to approach finishing them, should i flush, should i not, should i only flush a day or 2 before i pull them is it different because i am in ebb and flow?



The guys that are 'dialed in' with their nute regimen in soil don't.
I'm waiting for an answer on this one myself, 
aren't you RDWC as well? what do you do there?


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> The guys that are 'dialed in' with their nute regimen in soil don't.
> I'm waiting for an answer on this one myself,
> aren't you RDWC as well? what do you do there?


RDWC is too much work similar to soil but not as random.
I am in ebb and flow baby, simple res changes and monitoring ph/ec/temp in one place for me. I kept it simple yet sophisticated and redneck


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> RDWC is too much work similar to soil but not as random.
> I am in ebb and flow baby, simple res changes and monitoring ph/ec/temp in one place for me. I kept it simple yet sophisticated and redneck



Is a model railroad too much work? I love it! I just got some new stones and now have another reason to go play down there.


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## Gooch

well my computer is right next to them so i am always here, and always smoking, peeking  playing with clones and seedlings and mother etc... I think once i get a good perpectual system going i am going to try a dirt grow as a novelty, but for production ebb and flow is the only way to go ;-)


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## Gooch

I am attempting some different techniques during this first grow.
1st- hydro- ebb and flow-success
2nd-cloneing-success
3rd-Raw Nutes-Success
4th-bud backstacking-waiting for results
5th-bud washing-after harvest
These are various techniques that i found both on this forum and the other forum i am posting in (420)


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## Hushpuppy

Flushing synthetic systems is very personal choice as you can do it either way. Flushing soil/organic grows is nearly always a NO. There are certain occasions where an organic grow may need to be flushed, IF something has gone WAY wrong. Otherwise, it is detrimental to flush organic grows.

I generally don't flush mine toward the end because I do tiered harvests, but even when I was growing commercially, I would only cut off the nutes during the last week as the plants are generally done building at that point and are only ripening. If you do a good dry/cure to your bud so that all of the green material is allowed to break down then you don't really need to flush them. Unless you like really "clean" tasting bud, or you had some issues with them during flower and/or had to give them heavier nutes, I don't think final flushing is necessary.


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## Gooch

How high do you let the ec get in full flower? I am hanging around 2.8 which around 1400ppm but the bottle says to add 3tsp/gal at 30 gallons that would be 90tsp i added 1/2 that and got to 2.8 so i assume if i added the whole 90 i would be at somewhere way off the scale? So what am i missing?


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## Hushpuppy

I never do what the instruction say to do. They want you to buy more nutes so they give you a generic number to go by. I generally will only run about 1200-1300ppm with a max of 1400ppm for heavier feeding strains. But that can vary with different nute brands. I use the Jungle Juice 3part, mother earth super tea, and hygrozyme during flower.


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## Gooch

I am using floranova 1 all in one mix, they drank it down to 2.1ec so i just supplemented with some potassium and this weekend will be a new res change and coming up on the last 14 days maybe, getting antsy 
Here are some pics 

View attachment 12-2-ww1-cola.jpg


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## Hushpuppy

Looking real good


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## WeedHopper

Pretty Blue,,very nice.


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## Gooch

Thanks HP and WH this is coming down the stretch, i am checking trichs daily although we are still all clear no cloudy but i know that is going to start changing soon. I am not flushing I will take each branch as its ready, and label it for what strain and trich colors, i am hoping to pull some 50/50 cloudy/clear some 90/10 cloudy amber and some 90-10 amber cloudy


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## WeedHopper

Bro,,,that is porn to me. Bieutiful color.


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## zem

Nice Gooch, starting with your good genetics was the right decision and now only 3 months after that decision, you got what you earned that is a very nice first grow congrats! I tried going back through the long thread could not find the strains that you are growing...


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## Gooch

I am growing 2 wonderwomen, 1 hindu kush, and 1 crown royal, the 2 wonderwomen and hindu kush were clones and the crown royal was the one that stretched in the beginning and all the way through lol, the second crown royal i used as a mother and i am trying to pull more clones off of now. I got 1 successful clone.

Yes i am certainly glad i used my seeds but i killed 4 plants before i got the ones going so it might have benefited me to experiment on other seeds but i wouldnt be where i am now that is for sure


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## Hushpuppy

This growing MJ thing is an ever constant learning process. Either you are learning how to do it, or learning how to do it better.


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## Gooch

especially for me since this is my first time, i have heard the 3rd grow is actualy the first real grow, so i am finishing #1, I have #2 in veg and #3 going to start soon


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## Gooch

well i have some cloudy showing up now, so its time to prepare the drying boxes.
Is it better to take the entire plant in one shot, take each branch as its ready, or take each bud when it looks ready?


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## Hushpuppy

That is sort of up to you and your conditions. If the plant is a very open plant that allows light to get to most of the buds then you can probably take the whole plant at once when the top buds are well done.
But me personally, I like to take the top half(or third) of the plant when its ready so that the lower half can get more light and ripen more. This also makes for better hash as the trim down low gets to ripen more as well.


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## Gooch

here is a picture update at day 53 in flower 

View attachment 12-8-ww1.jpg


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## Gooch

picture update from day 53 continued crown royal and hindu kush 

View attachment 12-8-crown-royal1.jpg


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## Gooch

We are at day 56. beginning of week 8 I did a res change added 2.1ec of base nutes, then added in potassium, kelp, vitamin b, and amino acids(OminA) for a final ec of 2.4


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## Hushpuppy

Those flowers are coming along nicely. I see some dank tasty smoke in your future


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## WeedHopper

Very nice my friend.
HUSH I never thought of that,,,taking the top and letting the bottom grow,,,good idea. Course I did sneak buds from the top to smoke. Lol Yehaaaaaaaaaa


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## zem

Very nice Gooch, from the looks of it, you can begin to go easy on the nutes, in how long are these strains supposed to finish ?


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Very nice my friend.
> HUSH I never thought of that,,,taking the top and letting the bottom grow,,,good idea. Course I did sneak buds from the top to smoke. Lol Yehaaaaaaaaaa



I'll know I'm a successful grower when I can stop tossing fresh buds on top of my fridge :laugh:


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## sMACkaddict

gooch, lookin awesomeeee...  its beginning to look a lot like christmas :icon_smile:


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## Gooch

Zem the hindu kush and crown royal say 9 week, the wonderwoman says 8-10, The problem is i didnt have proper light under one of the wonderwomen and the crown royal for the first 4 weeks of flower the last 4 they have been under proper light so they may take a little longer to ripen. I plant on takeing limbs selectively as they ripen to where i want to pull them, some will be pulled at 50% cloudy/clear, some will be pulled at 50%cloudy/amber, and some mostly amber. I am currently mostly clear a few cloudy no amber


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## Gooch

I have been dealing with higher then normal humidity one day as high as 75%, because its raining and stormy here, I am trying to keep it in the 60% range, i think i need to setup an exhaust fan for when lights go out, damn i wish i had a temp/humidity controller that will be the next get fo sho


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## zem

you need your exhaust 24/7 anyway, plants themselves release humidity and in stale air, you would get mold. in my growrooms, i cannot get by without a dehumidifier in late flowering due to the high humidity that is normally in my climate. i would normally have it running for the final 20 days or so


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## Gooch

Well there is plenty of air circulation, i have my tent open, a window open, and fans blowing on it 24/7 so im not worries about stagnate air. Typically my tent has been between 35-50% steady, and i got a rain storm and didint account for it and it spiked to 75 one day and 65 today, and i have decided to keep my exhaust fan which pulls air through my lights and out of the room on, and it should keep the humidity steady i hope


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## Gooch

This patience crap is for the birds, I am not going to pick them early i am going to wait till i see trich color (Mantra).
Here are somej updated pics 
I am currently feeding at twice a day for 30 mins with an ec of 1.9 

View attachment 12-19-ww1.jpg


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## Grower13

looking good........


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## zem

very nice Gooch! you might be able to get by the final flowering stage with such humidity with a lot of strains or with a certain size of buds. but i have found it impossible to prevent bud mold when buds are very bulky and humidity is high even with a lot of air movement, the big buds will mold from their core so beware of that in later grows. this is a very nice 1st grow its a great start for you, do you have any clones ready for after harvest?


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## Gooch

ZEM I definitely understand we dont want high humidity it was only 2 days hopefully it is not a problem especially since my buds seem on the larger side. I do currently have 3 more plants ready and at sexual maturity, 1 crown royal clone, one from seed and a white cookies from seed. I attempted 7 more clones and I only had the first one take. I am going to try to reproduce precisely what i did the first time with clones of the plants ready for flower and hopefully it works out. You can see the next set with the second link in my sig


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## Hushpuppy

Hang on Gooch, they are almost there. I am not seeing a lot of new calyx growth so they are getting close.


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## Gooch

Yea they just keep getting more dense? they are all falling over even if i have them hung they just fall the other way lol


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## Gooch

So i am curious, when it says 9 weeks wouldnt that be 70 days? I realize 9x7=63 but 63 would be first day of 9th week, so the last day of 9th week is 70, also beginning of week 10. Am i just on a good Wake-N-Bake


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## zem

Gooch said:


> So i am curious, when it says 9 weeks wouldnt that be 70 days? I realize 9x7=63 but 63 would be first day of 9th week, so the last day of 9th week is 70, also beginning of week 10.* Am i just on a good Wake-N-Bake*



yeah lol because end of 10 weeks is 10x7=70  end of 9 weeks 9x7=63 ... jeez i want a bowl of what you just smoked


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## Gooch

lol man it was good had me all confusalled


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## Gooch

I am on day 73, still holding my patience as i am not seeing color yet, I may pull them this weekend im not sure. I changed the res gave them 1.7ec of base nutes and 1/2 tsp of potassium RAW, 1tsp of both kelp and amino acids for a total ec of 2.1 still only feeding them twice a day and keeping the humididty mad low in the 30's  so i think im seeing some shrinkage lol 

View attachment ww2-12-23-15.jpg


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## Rosebud

Do you not have an eye piece? Those look pretty rough. I haven't been in here and looks like you had some issues. Mojo for the harvest.


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## Gooch

I do but i dont see any amber, they missed a feeding so they went about 20 hours without water thats why they look rough i think


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## Gooch

they were starting to dry on the vine because my hose fell off my fill line and was just circulating inside the res, so they got no food or water for 20 hours and they did not enjoy that, as the leaves are now crispy, so I pulled the hindu kush which i found out was actually bubblicious lol I thought i lost the bubblicious apparently i lost the hindu kush, anyways here is that plant all chopped up and put into the drying box. I did not wash these as they were very crispy and i didnt want to chance it, the rest will be washed. not sure on weight as i dont have a scale but i would say3-5 oz would be a conservative guess the cola alone was probably an ounce easy, not sure what that might equal when its all done. Still have 3 more plants to pull.

Sorry for the shitty pics here is a better one 

View attachment 12-25-bblicious-harvest-drybox1.jpg


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View attachment 12-25-bubblicious-choice.jpg


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## Gooch

The deed has been done. All plants are chopped down and the drying has commenced. I used a technique called bud washing on 3 of the 4 plants but none of the colas.
I have 1 plant in a drying box which has a fan that turns on every hour to push air out and pull it in, the temp is 65 and the humility is 62,
Then i have he other 3 plants that all got washed and they are all hanging in the flower tent temp is 75 and humidity is 46 

View attachment 12-26-hanging.jpg


View attachment 12-26-harvest1.jpg


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## Grower13

nice harvest...........I wear latex gloves when I trim

:48:


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## Kraven

Yup me too G13, then toss it in the freezer when I'm done and thirty mins later you stretch the fingers and all the hash pops off nice and easy.


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## Gooch

well i was handling them very gently so there wasnt much beyond what you see, I did not give them a fine trim, so anything with sugar is still on, but thank you for that tip i will definitely be using that when i do my fine trim, thats why i love this forum, so many little tricks and tips.

Has anyone done bud washing before?


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## zem

i did something like that once, like soaking washing then drying the bud, it dried faster, results were not good. i was trying to save moldy bud, why are you considering doing it?


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## Gooch

well my primary reason for doing it was to remove any dust, doghair, dead spider mites etc... and i found a really good thread on another forum where a member name DocBud has a thread dating back a bunch of a years uptil today with success story after success story basically you have 3 buckets first has lemon juice and baking soda, second bucket and 3rd bucket have just water, and if you thought you had mold you start with peroxide and water, but i only did 3 bucket, and it seems to have been good so far, i have them in the dark with 67f, and 53%rh,


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## zem

whatever man, I cannot recommend doing that, but if you had to then i guess it's okay, just avoid messing the bud so much after harvest next time and consider it lesson learned. i would never put lemon or anything with residue


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## Gooch

Ummm there has been no ill effect to learn a negative lesson from? But I will be doing a blind taste test when they are all dried, I will let you know the results. Its really no different then washing your vegetables, if you do not remove all the dust, and hair etc.. then you smoke/eat it. Seems very logical to me, trichromes are not water soluble enough to worry about affecting them, its just a washing off of the yuck


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## Gooch

I dont have an actual weight as i dont have a scale but i filled 4 quart sized jars, and 3 1 gallon freezer bags, and the picture of the bud is one of the one that was washed 

View attachment harvest.jpg


View attachment wonder woman bud-1-1-16.jpg


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## Kraven

Gooch I had to google that "bud washing". I can tell you for sure that none of the people I know has ever incorporated that into a process. I would be very concerned about mold. To each there own I guess, in my humble opinion it's a waste of time and like most other internet stuff it's just that...stuff.


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## Kraven

Gooch said:


> I dont have an actual weight as i dont have a scale but i filled 4 quart sized jars, and 3 1 gallon freezer bags, and the picture of the bud is one of the one that was washed



With good tight buds it usually comes out to about 1.5 oz per jar, the zips are closer to 3. Nice haul brother, good looking bud too.


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## Kraven

I've been growing since 1978 in some form or another, be it OD guerrilla or indoor....your gonna end up with moldy bud, so try to be careful and make sure you look at all your stored bud frequently to make sure it doesn't mold. I was trying to hold my tongue but if you ended up with mold and you sucked that into your lungs that would be a lesson that you might not survive...please trust me, I'm a medical professional and have seen mold inhalation cases.


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## Gooch

yes i agree but there is no mold, as matter of fact it was kind of opposite , it actually dries really fast and the is now to dry i think, i cant even keep it at 50% with belvida packs. I also did a smoke test and gave out blind taste tests i am awaiting the results from, but for sure the washed bud tasted cleaner, and smoother almost like no hit was taken but on exhale holy crap, on the other side i could feel the other going in the lung and made me cough, both tasted great and the buzz was very heavy


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## sopappy

Kraven said:


> I've been growing since 1978 in some form or another, be it OD guerrilla or indoor....your gonna end up with moldy bud, so try to be careful and make sure you look at all your stored bud frequently to make sure it doesn't mold. I was trying to hold my tongue but if you ended up with mold and you sucked that into your lungs that would be a lesson that you might not survive...please trust me, I'm a medical professional and have seen mold inhalation cases.



 That was an important post, should be a sticky or whatever you call them. 
 I jarred my first crop of Northern Lights and I hit it out of the park, beginner's luck BUT never even knew about mold until I saw it. I had to throw all of it out, and some looked just fine. You can NOT cut it out, it starts from the INSIDE out, by the time you see it, it's too late. 
I'm kind of kicking myself now though, could I have made hash ?


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## Gooch

I think you could have made RSO with it as you cook RSO, not hash. I was very concerned with mold because of the size of my buds, so the last week or more the humidity was in the 30's and the entire week and a half of drying they were in the low 40's, now i am trying to get it up to 62 and i am stuck on 51


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I think you could have made RSO with it as you cook RSO, not hash. I was very concerned with mold because of the size of my buds, so the last week or more the humidity was in the 30's and the entire week and a half of drying they were in the low 40's, now i am trying to get it up to 62 and i am stuck on 51



 If you can reduce your exhaust fan speed, the humidity should increase.


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## Gooch

yea i had it as low as it would go and i had a humidifier on, not in the room with them but outside them room with the air being pulled in, I think i am in good shape they are floating at 50-51% in the bags with boveda packs, and i constantly check them to make sure they are smelling nicely and looking nicely. Everything is off branches and the buds are nice and solid from the back stacking i did


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> yea i had it as low as it would go and i had a humidifier on, not in the room with them but outside them room with the air being pulled in, I think i am in good shape they are floating at 50-51% in the bags with boveda packs, and i constantly check them to make sure they are smelling nicely and looking nicely. Everything is off branches and the buds are nice and solid from the back stacking i did



 backstacking? training or feeding?


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## Gooch

its either back stacking or bud stacking in the last 2-3 week of flower you cut the 3 fealer tips off and it makes the bud start "filling out" making it more dense and solid like you expect rather then squishy


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> its either back stacking or bud stacking in the last 2-3 week of flower you cut the 3 fealer tips off and it makes the bud start &quot;filling out&quot; making it more dense and solid like you expect rather then squishy



 fascinating, I didn't think you could cut anything in flower


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## Gooch

yea if you look at the buds there are 3 little white tips, that is what you trim off


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## NiceBud

Gooch
Don't stress about mistakes. We all make them. Your first grow will have them. Document everything. Make a grow journal in this forum. With picture updates. We will help you. Mistakes will happen till you get all your skills developed. That is just the way it goes. If you start with a plant that might hermie. The pollen can travel over a mile. You never want pollen loose in your house or grow area. It could come back and pollenate your best perfect plant. Then you are screwed even more. We are here for you.


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## Gooch

nice bud thank you, but this grow was done in january, and produced some incredible cannabis, the dry and cure went perfectly as i had some 4 moths curing and it was just incredible, or so im told. I have had 3 total harvest now. I have incorporated bud washing every time, with zero mold ever, not only that i am now part of group of growers within my state and they are beginning to perform budwashing after tasting my grows. I suggest everyone try it at least with 1 branch, the problem you will have is once you find out its so great you wont be able to go do it to all the buds as it has to be done at time of harvest. I lost my info for this forum and just recently recovered it. I really enjoy the people in here


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## Hushpuppy

Welcome back Gooch  glad the harvests have gone well for you.


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## Gooch

Thanks HP I cant wait to share what i have been upto. Its called Precision Scrogging and it was invented locally. Most people think SCROG using nets, this is flattening the plant and securing it to a patent pending invention called the pinwheel. There was a write up in 1000watt magazine on it. 
the pictures are a 3ft tall plant that was not grown for the pscrogging specifically but i just decided to try it so i snapped her down flat I did this the end of june so all these pics are over a month old 

View attachment 20160623_222601.jpg


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## Gooch

and here is what she looks like now 

View attachment aug-shot.jpg


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## NiceBud

Gooch. Wow. What a plant. So thats how it grows when you bend the big branches down. That is a must do on my list. 

Side note. Love Vincent Vangoh. Starry night was always my favorite. Great choice,


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> and here is what she looks like now



wow, mainlining on steroids, pulls up a chair, this I gotta see, 
cheese and rice, that looks like a lot of work
are you doing any trimming at all? or just the bondage?
the branches look too flimsy to me, when is flower?
are you using the RAW stuff?


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## Gooch

that was all trimmed up, a week later it blew up into this

I agree they do not look huge but the branch they come off of is so yoyo fo support, flower is going to start this weekend.
Yes i am still using raw biostimulants and a base nutrient of GH floranova(single bottle for grow, single bottle for bloom) 

View attachment aug-canopy.jpg


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## Gooch

NiceBud yea you tie them down and the inner nodes turn into main stems and ascend, this flower cycle will be a journal here http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=73858


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## Hushpuppy

That thing reminds me of the old wooden erector sets that had the wooden dowels and wheels with the holes for mounting the dowels. 

For those interested in the scrog, be careful to know your strains before doing this as not all strains like to be scrogged. Plants with very Indica structure will not do right under scrog. However most 50/50 hybrids do well with it.

Be sure to feed that thing well Gooch, or it may try to eat you  "feed me!!!"


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## Gooch

it is not at all dissimilar, it is simply a support structure to strap the plants down. I believe it has been done with pure indica and pure sativa also, the plants reacts the same. It starts with a single topping and then strapping those down allowing the inner nodules to fight for their place as king cola, the more you tie back the biggest the more faster the others come up

Scrog is putting a net over them right?


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> that was all trimmed up, a week later it blew up into this
> 
> I agree they do not look huge but the branch they come off of is so yoyo fo support, flower is going to start this weekend.
> Yes i am still using raw biostimulants and a base nutrient of GH floranova(single bottle for grow, single bottle for bloom)



I gave up on trimming, if it all comes back, what's the point?
LST don't work for me neither, I get two smaller colas instead of a big one.
I'm thinking the only way I'll increase my yields is with better light.

I may try that FloraNova again but I HATE those single bottles. 
You shake the living crap out of the bottle and it still pours like molasses and made a mess of my syringes, yuck!


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## Gooch

Well my theory behind trimming and letting it all fill back in is it get some light down into the lower section, we will see what happens with this grow, if all goes accordingly it will be a story in a magazine.
if you mix small batches use a shot glass measuring and or mix it with water. I have a 30gal res so i add 14 tablespoons so i have a large measuring cup and mis it with water before adding it. But why i really love the single bottle is because it is just NPK nothing else and the floranova specifically is super high quality NPK, the rest all offer a-b formulas or 10 bottle mixes etc.. since i use RAW for all my biostimulants all i need is NPK base


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## Hushpuppy

SCROG is screen of green. So anything that will forma screen and hold the branches horizontal to force the side branches to become top colas, that is a scrog. If you put anything over them and just allow the branches to grow up through just becomes a support screen.

 I have had a couple plants that absolutely did not like being scrogged. They weren't full Indica, more like 70/30, but they grew like tobacco, straight up. even when I topped one and tried to scrog one, they just resisted too much and then rewarded me with tiny buds. I would say more often than not, most plants can do scrog but you have to watch out for those that don't. Some breeders will tell you to not scrog that particular strain, rather do it as SOG.


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## Gooch

well i put it below and then strap them down and then just let them grow, I am not a fan of scrog or even SOG, mostly because i did not like having all my plants connected and then have to try and free the plant during harvest, using the pinwheel harvest is less then 5 seconds because it hasnt grown through anything, you simple slide each node out of the pinwheel and chop, and each plant maintains its individuality, that was super important. But since this is the first time i am doing it personally we shall all see exactly what happens good bad or indifferent


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Well my theory behind trimming and letting it all fill back in is it get some light down into the lower section, we will see what happens with this grow, if all goes accordingly it will be a story in a magazine.
> if you mix small batches use a shot glass measuring and or mix it with water. I have a 30gal res so i add 14 tablespoons so i have a large measuring cup and mis it with water before adding it. But why i really love the single bottle is because it is just NPK nothing else and the floranova specifically is super high quality NPK, the rest all offer a-b formulas or 10 bottle mixes etc.. since i use RAW for all my biostimulants all i need is NPK base



NPK and nothing else is for the RAW thing, ahah.
nope, never buying single bottles of anything again hahaha

Light penetration... the plants don't see green, all those leaves you're cutting off allow light to pass through, I think of them as transparent and see them in a whole new light. 
(he said light)


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## Gooch

sopappy said:


> NPK and nothing else is for the RAW thing, ahah.
> nope, never buying single bottles of anything again hahaha



Well the GH flornova is super high quality, and if you get on board with the biostimulants from raw its a perfect addition for a base nutrient. then you spoon feed it the RAW NPK, just to give it a nudge in the right directions


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## Hushpuppy

Gooch: that is a distinct advantage with that pinwheel device being individualized to each plant and making it easier to disassemble it during harvest. Someone was thinking about that for a while but they might just have a solid product there


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## Gooch

yea the guy that invented it has been growing for many man years his name is Scott Cambra, he currently hand makes them. I believe maybe the march issue of 1000watt magazine has a couple page write up on it


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> Well the GH flornova is super high quality, and if you get on board with the biostimulants from raw its a perfect addition for a base nutrient. then you spoon feed it the RAW NPK, just to give it a nudge in the right directions



GH is those Monsato bastards. I'm trying Jungle Juice next.
I'm assuming it's comparible. I like the idea of augmenting with RAW.
Why are you saying spoonfeeding RAW NPK?
Isn't NPK the floranova base and you just nit-pick RAW stuff as needed or appropriate.
I mostly skimmed looking at pictures, do you mention in this thread what and where you add the RAW?


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## Gooch

spoon feeding raw npk means adding extra phosphorus during early veg and early flower, and adding extra potassium during heavy flowering like week 5 on. and if you ever develop a nitrogen def the raw nitrogen is ammonium nitrate which can be used a foliar feed also for direct fixes


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> here is an overall shot of my tent, now with 6 females in it



Hey Gooch,

Are those buckets filled with pellets or are there netpots?
if netpots, your roots hang in air (below netpot) when drained?

How high do you fill those buckets on the flow cycle?

and that's a rockwell 4 inch cube in there or that wee plug?

thenk yew


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## Gooch

ok my buckets are filled with clay pebbles, and the roots grow through the bottom of the bucket, and leaving them in air is good it allows them to breath, as long as there is no light, if you are in a netpot its easy to put them into clay pebbles, the benefit to the clay is that they hold onto nutrients and in the dry cyce the roots can still feed.
 I fill mine about 4-5 inches up
its hard to remember exactly what each one is in most were cones from coco or dirt, i think one might be a 2x2 rockwool


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