# New guy here!



## justblaze (May 27, 2006)

Little history about myself...about three years ago I let good ol' mary jane take a leading role in my life and decided it was time for a long overdue break. Fast foward to now and got my own place, great paying job, and all my ducks in-a-row if you will. 
I've been contemplating the idea of growing for quite some time and have recently came across a great secret place to grow. Have a room 10'x25' and think im ready for it again. Gonna use 2x 1000w mh/hps switchable lamps and my Jack Horror & Big Bud seeds came yesterday. 
I need to disinfect the area completley and was wondering if bleach diluted with water will be safe to spray throughout the entire room, I'm scared it might effect the grow at a later period. Any other safe disinfectents to use? 
Lastly, I would like to buy anti-detection foil but goddamn is that stuff expensive, about $500 a roll and I need only a fraction of what I'll be buying, any suggestions on where to buy this stuff cheap? Anyways thanks for the read and I'll be back soon.

Thanks
-jb


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## Biffdoggie (May 28, 2006)

10 x 25 will need way more than 2 1000s.


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## GanjaGuru (May 28, 2006)

My suggestion is to start out small.

Make an inner room 3' x 3', at least 6' high and put a 600W HPS in there, preferably with an EYE bulb, and killer ventilation.
A first-time indoor grow is fraght with pitfalls.  It's common to have failures or far less than optimum results the first time through.

If you want to disinfect a growspace prior to use with 1 cup bleach to 1 gal. of water then fine.

I've never heard of "anti-detection" foil.  Sounds like a crock to me.

Lights generate heat.  That heat has to be exhausted somehow.  You could line a room with lead; the heat still has to leave somehow.

The main way cops find out about indoor grows is a high elect bill.  If you're using 2x or 3 x the kw's of surrounding properties, or 2x--3x the kw's as previous tenents, it might raise suspicions at the utility co.
Another reason to start out small is you might not like the lifestyle change an indoor garden dictates.  An illegal garden is stressfull.
Vacations?  Forget about it.  Can't leave for more than 2--3 days in a row.  Unexpected knocks, phone calls where the caller hangs up when you answer, a helicopter fly-by, someone sitting in a parked car--things that happen now but are basically ignored will take on an entirely new meaning when you have an indoor grow.
Btw, the #1 rule with a garden, indoors, backyard or in the woods--TELL NO ONE.
It's the old equasion. You tell 1 person, they tell 1 person and so on; soon half the neighborhood knows you're growing.


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## Stoney Bud (May 28, 2006)

Hey JustBlaze, good to meetcha man! You're going to love this group. There are lots of pros here that can get you on track and suggest countless methods of growing successfully to you.

You've got a good sized room there. You can save some money and use light travelers or light tracks. Those are devices that will move your light in either a circle or in a straight line. Most of the straight ones are 4 to 6 feet long and the circle ones move in a circle that has a diameter of about 3 to 4 feet. The reason these work so well is that MJ can't tell if the light has been interrupted for brief periods of time. The photosynthesis and transpiration will continue as if the light was directly above, even though it's not for a short time. This works in vegetative and flowering cycles.

However, you can break a light cycle just as easily. If you want an uninterrupted period of darkness, one spark of light within that period will make the plant think the light has been on the entire time. This can ruin a flowering plant. As long as you use them properly, light tracks will work great and can triple your grow area with no extra lights.

If you put each of your 1000's on a 6 foot light track, you can grow in an area about 8 feet long by 6 feet wide. That will leave you an outside boarder to walk around and tend your plants.

For a grow that size and using light tracks, I would suggest that you use Hydroponics for your growing method. This will maximize the potential of your plants. Of course, as everyone here knows, Hydro is all I use and I'm kind of prejudiced about using it. Ha!

Good luck to you man. If you do a "Google" on Light Tracks or Light Movers, you should be able to find them. Let me know if you need more help.


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## GanjaGuru (May 28, 2006)

I used light "tracks" and was diappointed with the results.  I though I could achieve the benefits of extra lights.  It didn't work that way.
Plants growth is affected by the* intensity* of light, not it's mere presence.  When the light isn't directly overhead, the plant recieves less than optimum light.
Sun circles are a different matter.  They are like a ceiling fan with a light at the end of 2 or more blades.  They travel like 300 degrees, then reverse.
The purpose of using sun circles is to light up all parts of a plant (like the sun does in it's arc through the sky).  They are not used to increase the sq/ft of the growspace.

I haven't checked lately, but back in like '99 or 2000 the company that made sun circles went out of business.


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## Stoney Bud (May 28, 2006)

GanjaGuru said:
			
		

> I used light "tracks" and was diappointed with the results. I though I could achieve the benefits of extra lights. It didn't work that way.
> Plants growth is affected by the* intensity* of light, not it's mere presence. When the light isn't directly overhead, the plant recieves less than optimum light.


The plant reacts to the presence of the light and the intensity. When that light is taken away for less than an hour, the photosynthesis changes not one bit. The MJ plant won't even "know" that the light was not directly overhead. This has been proven beyond any doubt by scientists. The plants growth and health will not alter in any way what-so-ever, except that the plants yeild and bottom growth will increse, not decrease. There are no differences in how this affects MJ plants.

If you had disapointing results after trying it, it's because you did it incorrectly. If you would like to explain to me how you used the tracks, and what other parameters you used, I'd be more than happy to show you the proper method to use.

***********
Why move your light?

Moving one light on a 6 foot rail should increase your light's area of coverage by approximately 1.6. This translates into lower operating cost due to higher single light yields. The lumens produced by a grow light decrease the greater the distance from the bulb. To avoid plant killing heat associated with stationary grow lights, the bulb must be kept at a greater distance from the plants. For example, your plants end up getting far less lumens than you are actually paying for. By moving your light, you may run a tighter plant to lamp tolerance (using more of what you are paying for) without generating plant killing heat. Again, this translates into lower operating cost through higher yields. Moving your light from one end of your garden and back will give your garden light at a much greater variety of angles. This allows more light to reach the foliage at the bottom of the plant, which is normally shaded by the foliage at the top of the plant. As a greater portion of the plant takes part in the process of photosynthesis, lower operating costs result from greater yields. 

Light movers and light tracks replicate the natural movement of the sun, allowing grow lights to reach all sides of your plants. By spreading the light over a greater area, light movers and tracks promote even growth and are cost-effective since they alleviate the need for multiple lights. Light movers give you the control you need to grow vigorous and uniform plants.

A very popular way to grow more with less setup costs and a lot less running costs. Basically, the light is hung on a long rail. How long is up to you. The light is moved from one end to the other using a silent low wattage motor. When the light gets to one end it stops for approximately 1 minute before making its return journey. In effect, it does the job of two or three lights just using one. This light rail will reduce running costs by half to two thirds depending on the setup.

The most efficient way to use high intensity lights is to have them moving within the grow room. There are many advantages to this, and a number of different ways it can be done. Moving the lights will eliminate plants tendency to grow toward the light source and provide light to areas which otherwise may be shaded. Since the light is moving, it can pass quite close to the plants without burning the leaves. Moving lights cover more area than stationary ones, reducing electricity costs and ensuring more even growth. 

More intensity also allows plants to be placed much closer together, greatly increasing yield and quality. The size and shape of your room will determine the type of light mover that will best suite your needs. Lineal light movers carry the light fixture slowly along a track and back again during the light cycle. Most are six feet long, support a single lamp, and are recommended when the growing area is long and narrow. Circular light movers are best when the length and width of the room are similar. 

They are designed to carry either one, two, or three lights, ideally lighting a ten by ten foot area. This diameter can be reduced but rarely extended. Two arm and three arm light movers are most popular, with the latter supplying much more light per square foot. More intensity means plants can be placed much closer together, greatly increasing yields.

Light movers are mechanical devices that, as the name implies, move an HID in a fixed pattern over a garden. A light mover can increase the coverage of a light by 140%. The real advantage is MUCH more light is available to the plants when the light is in motion. With a stationary light all that is shaded will remain in the shade, but with a mover the light will hit from different angles giving better coverage.


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## GanjaGuru (May 28, 2006)

Hold on there a minute podner.

Are you saying that for example a 600 watt light provides just as much light energy when it is 4' feet away as it does when directly overhead?  No way.

I built a growbox that was approx. 4.5' x 3'.  Initially I had 2 400 watters in there.  A friend gave be a light track so I set it up with *1 *400w light and used the other one elsewhere.
My yield was just a tad over 1/2 of the yield vs. when I had 2 static 400w in there.  Other conditions were as identical as possible.


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## Stoney Bud (May 28, 2006)

GanjaGuru said:
			
		

> Hold on there a minute podner.
> 
> Are you saying that for example a 600 watt light provides just as much light energy when it is 4' feet away as it does when directly overhead? No way.
> My yield was just a tad over 1/2 of the yield vs. when I had 2 static 400w in there. Other conditions were as identical as possible.


No, I'm not saying that a light 4' away will provide the same intensity of light as one directly overhead. Nothing in what I said states that.

I'm saying that you can put the light closer to the plant, thus increasing the intensity of the light that the plant recognises, and also move the light, thus preventing radient burn due to the closeness of the light, and you can cover as much as 160% as much area just as effectivly as a stationary light, thus resulting in less operating costs and higher yeilds.

Your lessened yeild may be the result of lower transperation because of a failure to increase parameters to the higher level of growth provided by the increase intensity of light or you didn't put the lights closer as you should have.

I think perhaps your disagreement may stem from not knowing that the plants reaction to light is much slower than you realize. The plants simply do not notice that the light is gone. The length of light absence that is allowable without change in photosynthesis differs slightly with plants, but a 15 minute absence per/hour isn't noticable to any plant.

Track lighting cycles can be adjusted to provide a 15 to 60 minute cycle.


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## GanjaGuru (May 28, 2006)

I'm sorry, my 15 years of experience of growing indoors, and common sense, indicates to me that a plant grows better under a light that is directly overhead than one that hardly ever is and can be up to 4' or more away.

Ever grown pot in the shade?
I don't mean constant shade, I'm talking about "mottled" sunlight; sunlight shining through leaves (and always on the move).  Sometimes direct sunlight is shining on the marijuana, sometimes it's slightly blocked by leaves.
I've done this and believe me the plants in mottled shade don't do as well as the plants in full sunlight.
When the light on the rail is way down at the other end, it's as ineffective as sunlight blocked by leaves, maybe even more so.


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## Stoney Bud (May 28, 2006)

GanjaGuru said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, my 15 years of experience of growing indoors, and common sense, indicates to me that a plant grows better under a light that is directly overhead than one that hardly ever is and can be up to 4' or more away.
> 
> Ever grown pot in the shade?
> I don't mean constant shade, I'm talking about "mottled" sunlight; sunlight shining through leaves (and always on the move). Sometimes direct sunlight is shining on the marijuana, sometimes it's slightly blocked by leaves.
> ...


Ganja, you're not understanding what I've already posted. Please read it again and try to understand the science behind what I'm telling you.

I'm not saying, have not said, and never will say that a plant will grow better when further from the light.

I've been growing indoors using Hydroponics for 10 years longer than you've been growing indoors in anything. That has nothing to do with knowing or not knowing the science behind using a light mover. Having nothing to do with the subject, it would be a cheap shot if I tried to use that to substantiate my argument. Neither will my having grown pot for longer than you've been alive enter the discussion. That too wouldn't be appropriate.

You keep talking about light being closer or further from the plant. That has absolutely nothing to do with the use of a light mover. Please stop repeating the same thing. I understand what you're saying, but you are not understanding what I'm saying.

What I'm saying is that a plant does not recognize an absence of light when that absence is brief within a given time span. The plant simply does not know in any way that the light is no longer there as long as that absence is brief in the amount of 15 minutes before re-establishing full maxed out light. It has nothing to do with shade or indirect light. You're talking apples and I'm talking oranges. This isn't something I've thought of Ganja. It's proven, existing science.

Once again I'm telling you that if you had a reduced yield from a crop while using a light track, then you were using it incorrectly or not supplementing the plant to make up for the increased transpiration. This can be the only explanation for something tried and proven, not working for you


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## GanjaGuru (May 28, 2006)

Ok this discussion has now become pointless.

I know lots of knowlegable experienced people who grow indoors, hydroponically and otherwise.  I only know 1 grower who uses a light mover and that's a sun circle.

And I'll leave it at that.


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