# Co2 benefits..worth it ?



## PUFF MONKEY

howdy all. i just finished building my co2 rig and was wondering what the best way to use it is...does the veg room get anythnig special from it or only the flower room...when should i run it? lights on/off ? and what kind of "improvements" should i expect if done right ? it is a bottle/reg setup btw..thanks


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## PUFF MONKEY

P.S everyone of my DNA freebies popped(-sleestack) !!!! gonna put them in the net pots tomorrow !!!


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## BBFan

I don't use supplemental CO2, so I can't really comment.

The one thing I can say without a doubt is that plants require CO2 to perform photosynthesis.  This has nothing to do specifically with flowering, but everything to do with growth.  Photosynthesis only occurs during lights on.

Absolutely give your plants CO2 while in veg.

Good luck and let us know how it works for you.


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## ray jay

Puff, You going to start a journal on your DNA plants?


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## legalize_freedom

BBfan said about all I was going to...I've nevr used it...let us know how it works for ya!


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## OGKushman

Worth it for optimum growth and required for grows with out ventilation.


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## jmansweed

OGKushman said it right - it's important w/o ventalation. When I run larger romms I'll use it also. Lots of plants in one space frequently use up the natural, available CO2 quickly.


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## PUFF MONKEY

so if i'm growing 18-36 plants, how long would it take for them to bring the ppm from 1500 back down to 300 ? i was planning on useing a solinoid regulator and leaking it for an hour and off for 3-4....the Co2 calc says my room size with the reg set to 2cuft per hour would need to be "on" for and hour and that the room should be replenished ever 3-4 hours.....what would you do ?


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## PUFF MONKEY

does a steady 1500 ppm's of Co2 spell a health problem to me in my grow room ?


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## JBonez

Co2, hmm... good question.

From an analytical point of view,

unless you are going to increase lumens per square foot,
increase nutrient regimen/maintenance, control humidity so you can run higher temps, then id say dont waster your time.

Unless your grow is completely sealed tho, you are gonna have a rough time keeping things consistent.

jmo mang.


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## nouvellechef

Exhaust your room before you go in, or I would. I would get a controller. Let it guide itself. I am on the fence whether to run CO2 generator or not. Also, I want to see Sleestack grow also. I have those freebies waiting for new home. You still need to exchange air in room with filter and fan, yes?


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## dirtyolsouth

Hiya Puff Monkey/MPers...:ciao:

I used CO2 for many years when I had limited ventilation and high grow temps at other locations.  Ime if you keep your temps down and keep a constant air exchange going, CO2 just isn't necessary although that's not saying it doesn't work.  To really use it effectively you need to run a closed ventilation system with your lighting exhaust so you're not constantly pulling CO2 enriched air out of the room faster than you can put more in.  If you go with that approach and run your filter within your room with a fan constantly pulling your air/odors thru the filter and exhausting it back into your grow space.  To keep CO2 at the proper elevated levels requires a lot of gizmos...   You need a solenoid controlled regulator which will be controlled by a CO2 PPM analyzer which is the brain of the unit that tells the regulator when to release more CO2 into the air...  You can also do it with timed injections but it take some experimentation to find what seems to work the best.

Peace!


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## BioDynamic

PUFF MONKEY said:
			
		

> howdy all. i just finished building my co2 rig and was wondering what the best way to use it is...does the veg room get anythnig special from it or only the flower room...when should i run it? lights on/off ? and what kind of "improvements" should i expect if done right ? it is a bottle/reg setup btw..thanks





CO2 is extremely important for photosynthesis. (carbon Fixation) . Just remember the equation for Photosynthesis:

*2n CO2* + 2n H2O + photons &#8594; 2(CH2O)_n_ + 2n O2

*carbon dioxide* + water + light energy &#8594; carbohydrate + oxygen

Even the 3 types of photosynthesis are based on how they incorporate Carbon Dioxide:  *C3*, *C4* photosynthesis _(Carbon Fixation 3 & 4)_ and *CAM* photosynthesis (_Crassulacean Acid Metabolism_). 

*Remember the definition of Photosynthesis? *
A process that converts *carbon dioxide* into organic compounds (sugars/carbohydrates) _USING THE ENERGY OF LIGHT <--- _
Therefore, keep lights on during CO2 supplementation, and CO2 off during dark periods.
The more light the more CO2 there should be.  Or better, the higher PAR rating you have, the more CO2 you should supply. Different lights cause different CO2 'intake' rates/efficiency...



CO2 Enrichment is tricky to deal with sometimes. There are many different methods (homemade to spending a few dollars).  You need a perfectly sealed chamber, and a CO2 meter (Vital instrument). Depending on you method(s) of CO2 generation, will decide other specification for your op.

CO2 and ventilation don't mix. A problem if you are using HID's. Unless you can keep the temperature of the room stable without flux and venting, ...Co2 could possibly be a waste of time


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## nouvellechef

Few bucks? Try couple thousand. If I pull the trigger, I am for sure running those heat exchangers. So it would go, filter>fan>hood>exchanger. Think it would vastly cut down on AC. I also saw sealed off duct flanges on both walls, dual fans on both ends going thru lights when on.


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## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Few bucks? Try couple thousand. If I pull the trigger, I am for sure running those heat exchangers. So it would go, filter>fan>hood>exchanger. Think it would vastly cut down on AC. I also saw sealed off duct flanges on both walls, dual fans on both ends going thru lights when on.





There are so many methods you can use to create Co2.  Ranging from 20$ to 200$ to 2000$

Buying a CO2 generator is a extremely expensive, and can be a waste of money. Same-goes for home-made methods as well, ...CAN BE a waste of money. However, ..For those who can't spend thousands of dollars, and those who can like to get into arguments about which is better ...I  think I'll stick to explaining how to make Cheaper home-made designs, so more people and everyone can get use out of them. Both work. Both fail. Both have different costs.


I can get a 5* months supply of constant CO2 for 200$ or less. Look into a product called  *Co2 BOOST  *or*  Co2 Pucks.  I use one of these methods + 2 home-made methods that can cost as little as 20 dollars a Month. Sometimes less

*2 different kinds of home-made Co2 Generators/Dispensers...  20$-30$ is a good price for both of them. 

I buy in half bulk. Enough for at least one month supply at a time...it's not hard to figure out.

*1 -* Either empty 2L pop bottles, or one big 5 gallon water jug, or pail, bucket, etc.
     Aquarium tubing from the pet store  (3-8$)
     Sugar 
     Yeast (Dry Brewer's Yeast)


*2 -* Couple Big boxes of baking soda
     1-2 Big jugs of Vinegar
     FIJI water bottle (I find rectangular shape works easier sometimes)
     I use pin needles
     Container

NOTE: I'm explaining how to do all this with minimum $$$. 

The first method is making alcohol. The yeast eats the sugar and produces Co2 and Alcohol.  The ratio of sugar to yeast is always a lot higher. The more sugar and yeast, and BIGGER chamber, ..the more/longer Co2 will be produced. You make a  small hole in any of the lids, maybe 2 or 3 if you have a pail and those giant round lids, and you insert the aquarium tubing, and seal it off... I use crazy glue. A lot of people already know this method, it's common, cheap, simple, and no matter what it does create extra Co2 which is a beneficial aspect. 
Some people find doing this a waste of time, but that's up for debate, as some people love creating things like this for fun and experience, - You start off making pop bottle Co2 dispensers, then get creative and start coming up with your own ideas, like i thought up my drip system for Co2, A 2 big boxes of baking soda and big jug Vinegar (less than 10$) ...can produce Co2 in a drip system steady for weeks if made properly. There's also some other things you can do to this method.
I have done it. And it does work, as the meter tells all.


The second method is making your own drip system. Basically get a container and pour a nice amount of baking soda. You then fill the FIJI water bottle with vinegar and either put 1 really really tiny hole, or ..(it should be experimented with but maybe more, it's always different every time i make one). Vinegar is thin. I usually put one small hole in the lid VIA fire and needle, tac...and  leave the need in the hole (melted pastic or C.glue) suspend the FIJI bottle over the BSoda container, and make sure it drips vinegar onto the Bsoda, ...10 or less drips a minute is good.
Voila co2 making drip system for 20$ or less.


I always make a set up of each method in a grow room, along with Co2 pucks, or, sometimes Co2 Boost. Some people say none of these methods work, but I've used them all many times, and I also use Co2 meters so I can VISUALLY see how much ppm of Co2 my chamber has. They all work. You just have to learn how to handle a gaseous nutrient.


Another good way for Co2 ...is going to Wal-mart (only some Wal-marts have it) ...Is purchasing DRY ICE


There are many other cheap ways as well.
 


Supplementing Co2 is a great way for speedy growth (faster cell division).  Before carbon can be incorporated into plant tissue it has to be &#8220;reduced&#8221; from its state in the CO2 molecule; it has to be chemically reacted with water and high energy electrons to become a &#8220;carbohydrate. The more light the more Co2, faster growth takes place.

Six molecules of water plus six molecules of carbon dioxide produce one molecule of sugar and six molecules of oxygen. It is easy to see that environment conditions and the amount of light available dictate the level of sugar that the plant will produce. This energy is used by the plant to maintain biological function; any excesses in production will be stored in the plant.

 Carbon Fixation is carried out by the enzymes RUBISCO and sometimes PEPCase. 
TRIACONTANOL nearly doubles a plant&#8217;s rate of photosynthesis! Research suggests this is because TRIA directly increases the activity of enzymes involved in photosynthesis and growth, such as RUBISCO, PEPCase, ATPase, NADH-oxidase, and malate dehydrogenase.    When using products that contain any of those enzymes, or Triacontanol the fatty acid and My personal favourite phytohormone, alone with Brassinolide., you should also be increasing your Co2 production


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## The Hemp Goddess

I am sorry, but the homemade CO2 things that use things like yeast and vinegar are useless.  CO2 enhancement needs to be regulated and monitored to be effective.  If you cannot keep CO2 levels at around 1500 ppm (and other things like more light and heat) and coordinate it with your exhaust, you are far better off just exchanging the air in your space 3-4 times a minute.


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## BioDynamic

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I am sorry, but the homemade CO2 things that use things like yeast and vinegar are useless.  CO2 enhancement needs to be regulated and monitored to be effective.  If you cannot keep CO2 levels at around 1500 ppm (and other things like more light and heat) and coordinate it with your exhaust, you are far better off just exchanging the air in your space 3-4 times a minute.





That's what CO2 meters are for, to measure the ppm in the atmosphere. Anything that produces Co2 works.  It's the knowledge & techniques of the user that lead to faulty outcomes.

Like I said Co2 is tricky, and harder to manage.  These methods help me constantly stay at a ppm range of 700-1250ppm  (I control the ppm of course).  I don't just say they work. I can digitally check my ppm levels at anytime, and these methods have worked perfectly for me. 
 If it works perfectly fine for me, and not for you...  then you obviously have done something wrong. 

Saying these don't work is a lack of experimentation and trial and error. If they work for me, and I can measure the carbon dioxide levels directly, and accurately, ...and have seen the proof in and out for years, ... than it can work for anyone.  Especially novices, and people not looking to spend a lot of money.


They work.  You just have to do it right.


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## legalize_freedom

So Byodynamic....how do you measure and regulate your c02?  I'm intersted in hearing this as I have tried all these hmoemade methods, with little to NO improvements in yeild....I think one is much better concentrationg on better ventilation, bringing in fresh c02 enriched air, than messing with these c02 buckets, vinegar and bakeing soda, yeist and sugar methods...there is just no way to regulate it...trust me I tried them all.  You would need many many 2 liter bottles to produce the amounts you would need for even a 4' x 4' area.  I'm interested in hearing your proof.


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## jmansweed

I find the same results as LF. I own a large propane co2 producer and occasionally run tanks. Using home made methods, although maybe effective in smaller grows, has proven to be an insufficiant way to supply and more specifically monitor levels in my situation as well.


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## nouvellechef

CO2 generators are a waste? I am telling you right now, you can run your pucks and homemade goofball stuff vs generator. No contest, bro. Hence 750-1200ppm. Now i want to light those pucks up with monitor and see what the ppm can achieve.


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## BioDynamic

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> So Byodynamic....how do you measure and regulate your c02?  I'm intersted in hearing this as I have tried all these hmoemade methods, with little to NO improvements in yeild....I think one is much better concentrationg on better ventilation, bringing in fresh c02 enriched air, than messing with these c02 buckets, vinegar and bakeing soda, yeist and sugar methods...there is just no way to regulate it...trust me I tried them all.  You would need many many 2 liter bottles to produce the amounts you would need for even a 4' x 4' area.  I'm interested in hearing your proof.




Keep in mind I grow in chambers i make. Sometimes regular sometimes Aeroponics. I make chambers out of anything. I love working with soil, and BioDynamic Agriculture, ... and I find Aeroponics to be superior to other methods of growing as well. Leading to the point is that I never grow more than 4 plants at a time. Usually 2-3 plants will produce enough bud for a years supply.  I, on average, yield 2-3 pounds of bud per plant. When I use some other special supplies and techniques I can yield much more. I don't use chemicals or synthetics.

Leading to the next point ...With 2-4 plants yielding the same as 40 plants of someone Else's grow, i can take away all that space, and use much smaller areas. I then have a much more complete control over my atmosphere. 
I can turn anything into a grow chamber._ (I am currently working on turning my old 52 inch big screen into a secret aeroponic grow chamber. (neat?).  _Since I only ever work with 4 or less, and i can control much more... Co2 works better for me.


*Measuring Co2* is absolutely simple with my *Tim8* (spelt properly). It measures temp & humidity as well. I wanted the gold colour version, but they were sold out at the time. I paid just over 200$ and that was with shipping. Lasts for years.

If by 'regulating' you mean shutting on and of, and maintaining specific levels of ppm, ...that's easy? 
The drip system is easy to stop at any moment you desire. If levels get passed where you want them you just replace the cap to one without a hole or drip mechanism.

As for the pop bottle method, you'd just have to remove one by one or add until the levels drop/rise, although it never really seems to be a problem for me, as I never have to worry about overdosing. It's always nice steady levels ranging from 700 to 1400ppm (max I will go.).  As long as it stays in these levels during the daylight photoperiod, than I normally don't play around with anything.

Space isn't to much of an issue when you can design any size chamber, 4x4 for example, ...and hook up as many as a dozen or 2 dozen  homemade co2 dispensers to it _(of course you don't have the much but some people do, especially those making alcohol as much as they are growing.) . 
_ 
How?  It's all about design; especially out-side-the-box designs. 
When it comes to making your own home-made chambers (any size), you have even more control over your atmosphere & space, and it also allows you to do some* things without entering. (I avoid going into the area to keep checking up on specifics, during their day periods when Co2 is mostly being used) [open the door bye bye Co2]).
I check moisture levels every 3-4 days, soil fertility once 2wice a week (Lamotte Professional Test Kit)  , once a week I check sugar levels using a Brix Meter.  Every few days I check chlorophyll levels with my LEAF Chlorophyll meter.  temperatures are always stable never have to worry, and since i use mostly LED's watering and feeding isn't as often so I again I don't have to enter or open so many times. 

 ...trust me, it's not hard to create high co2 levels with any of these methods.


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## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> CO2 generators are a waste? I am telling you right now, you can run your pucks and homemade goofball stuff vs generator. No contest, bro. Hence 750-1200ppm. Now i want to light those pucks up with monitor and see what the ppm can achieve.





It's not Hence 700-1200ppm.

Those are the levels I CHOOSE to have. I can make any level of co2 I want, ranging from 100ppm to 3000ppm.  Using the homemade methods.  It isn't hard.  Why do you guys have such a hard time?  Why is it so impossible that I have and do it?   It's not science fiction.  And It's not just pop bottles, I said you can also use 5 gallon jugs, or pails, ...  I'm pretty sure I listed off a few sizes of containers. 

I choose 700-1200ppm.  When I use my special products like TRIA, RUBISCO, and pPeptase ...Then I up my levels of Co2. However, ever since I started getting pounds per plant, I haven't used those as much. So i keep levels 700ppm during seedling and early veg, and I up it as the plant grows. Normally I stay at 1200, Odd time 1400ppm ....but I never exceed that because I choose not to.

WHat does choosing my ppm level have to do with home-made Co2 methods not working?  * NOTHING*


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## BioDynamic

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> So Byodynamic....how do you measure and regulate your c02?  I'm intersted in hearing this as I have tried all these hmoemade methods, with little to NO improvements in yeild....I think one is much better concentrationg on better ventilation, bringing in fresh c02 enriched air, than messing with these c02 buckets, vinegar and bakeing soda, yeist and sugar methods...there is just no way to regulate it...trust me I tried them all.  You would need many many 2 liter bottles to produce the amounts you would need for even a 4' x 4' area.  I'm interested in hearing your proof.






Remember I said 2L pop bottle or 5 gallon Jugs, or...


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## nouvellechef

Oh no, here we go. 2-3 pounds per plant? Holy smokes. Pics please. Espically in a growing "chamber". This is gonna get good, stay tuned.

PS, did I just see mostly LED's? Oh no, this thread could be epic.


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## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Oh no, here we go. 2-3 pounds per plant? Holy smokes. Pics please. Espically in a growing "chamber". This is gonna get good, stay tuned.
> 
> PS, did I just see mostly LED's? Oh no, this thread could be epic.




Lol, ...I guess you missed the year 2009. The most revolutionary year in marijuana genetics history. I never said I yielded pounds due to Co2, enrichment or LED's

I said I use Monochromatic light for mostly for VEGGING for establishing a large vivacious rhizosphere. Not for flowering. And I use a mix of a few different types of lighting technologies for the different stages of growth. LED's develop amazing root zones. I've seen it in my past aeroponic set ups. But I also:

I have 6 300w cfl 2700K 
I have 4 300w cfl 6500K

I have 4 LED lamps, 1 is high-power.

I have 2 250w white Light CFL's for fuller spectrums ... white is to help develop carotenoids. 

How I use them in combinations is different for plant stages. I also use a couple 150watt incandescents each morning and night time to simulate sunrise and sunset better for flowering. (the Pr and Pfr phytochrome response) along with the 2700K cfl's, and my highpower LED red/orange 635nm,  and my 660nm LED lamp

==========================================

I have 2 Feminized *Euphoria Express* beauties growing right now 6 feet to my left.

_*You have any idea what Euphoria Express Is?  *_or these:

Euphoria?
Elephant Bud?
Elephant Outdoors
Jedi 41?
Jedi Death Star?
Indica 50?
Labyrinth Bud?
Pickle Bud ?
Oracle Bud ?
Storm Trooper Bud?
Vampire Bud?

Here, ... this is for marijuana lovers everywhere. 

Visit this side site: I can't post/spam a bunch of links so I compiled a list on this one site. START AT THE BOTTOM OF THE LIST! THAT'S WHERE THE BEST ARE ...My Favourite is Euphoria.   This is why I get 2+ pounds of dope, for all of you doubters.  *One strain even produces 10 pounds of dope outdoors.  

*www savelifestore.blogspot com   (dont forget the dots)


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## nouvellechef

Pics dude. You said about 2-3lb's per plant. I want to see. This could possibly change the face of growing. 

PS, didn't miss best dank of 2009. My links below don't lie.


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## jmansweed

Bio Dynamic - i have been trying to get feedback on BC SEEDS for a while. Does that bud really yeild harvests as advertised and more importantly - 40%THC?  - lets here the details please........


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## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> Bio Dynamic - i have been trying to get feedback on BC SEEDS for a while. Does that bud really yeild harvests as advertised and more importantly - 40%THC?  - lets here the details please........





*BCSEEDS ...Is amazing!!!*


I ordered a 5pk feminized Upstate Seeds, ...and they gave me 6! + 24 free seeds of some of their best strains!

IT TOOK 6 DAYS FROM THE TIME I MAILED TO THE TIME I RECEIVED. 

I grew 3 of the Upstates, and I yielded an average of *1040g per plant* 

This was without HID lighting, and without my specialized products like TRIA and Brassinolide.​
Understand... You grow any of those strains I listed properly, you yield like you've never yielded before.  I have never dealt with another Seed bank since I discovered BCseeds.  I'm sure they use HID's to yield what they yield on the site, but like I said, I Don't use HID's and i average 2-3 pounds per plant. 

My first time I got less, but it was my fault. 

As for the THC % ...I haven't personally measured the cannabinoid content from any of my grows from BCSeeds yet, BUT I am definitely going to this grow.However, I can definitely say ...The highs are the best I've ever had.  And EUPHORIA IS FUC**NG FANTASTIC!!! Never been high for so long in my life

I use the Cannalytics "Cannabis Fingerprint Kit" - it's a cannabinoid test kit almost anyone can do at home.  It uses a process known as Thin Layer Chromatography (TLC) to separate and identify cannabinoids on a special impregnated TLC-plate. Im not going to get in to specifics but for further information about Thin Layer Chromatography visit wikipedia or something.
10$ a test it will tell you which cannabinoids are present and the approximate % of CBC, CBG, THC, THCv,  CBD, CBN, CBNv, and CBNd.  The results is the % measured against the rest of organic substances belonging to buds like aminoacids, sugars, terpenoids, vegetal hormones etc. For ex. when people say "20% THC"  this is a measurment of the percentage of THC against the rest of the cannabinoids not the percentage of THC in the bud.


However, the test only goes up to 25, ... .


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## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Pics dude. You said about 2-3lb's per plant. I want to see. This could possibly change the face of growing.
> 
> PS, didn't miss best dank of 2009. My links below don't lie.




Nouvelle: These are my past grows ...And I'm sorry but I do not take pictures of any ILLEGAL GROW OPERATION, ..and upload them to my computer where they will forever be stored (Even if you delete them , police can recover any information that's ever been on your computer), ...and them post them on a public forum for absolutely anyone to see/ access.

If you do that where I come from ...You are asking for trouble.  That, and I also don't own a digital camera. 

However, I'm not the only person who yields these amounts !!!???   I have come across several people online who also yield pounds AND SOME OF THEM DID TAKE PICTURES. 

But law enforcement is changing around here, I live in the biggest dope growing community in southern ontario, and using HID's are dangerous.  Police here love their new infra-red technology, and they make a lot of busts by watching electricity bills, and using infra red sensors in helicopters and going over the whole community. 

Laws are getting very very strict around here, and to take pictures and put them on my computer is just something stupid, and risky.

However, ...I have 12 day old beauties growing, ...maybe I should take pictures THIS ONE TIME before and after harvest. It would be nice o shut ppl up for once lol.   

Although I don't blame you guys for doubting me, ...but yielding pounds of dope is a simple thing these days.  Marijuana horticulture has changed forever 2009, not just in genetics



And it did change the face of growing, Next 3-4 years are going to be the most interesting  for the whole marijuana growing industry.  There will be some new lighting technology  coming out soon too. and LED's as well will be even stronger

Nouvelle go to Bcseeds.com and Look up the strain UPSTATE and EUPHORIA UNLIMITED ...Read the description, it explains a few things for you

Upstate came out in 2008 and was the first of 'the next generation'. Nobody thought it was going to be beat for at least another 10 years. All of a sudden 2009 came out. They discovered a bunch of new Cannibinoids never seen before, rare phenotypes, and genetics .......which created plants with 50% THC, 8-10 hour BUZZES, and plants that yield 2-3-4-10 pounds of bud > Look up  Elephant Outdoors 

Elephant and Euphoria are the 2 strains that changed everything.


Extremely high yield is somewhat easy to achieve, ...Even before these genetics came out, people were still getting pounds per plant.  Manipulation.  Doesn't mean Potent.   Potency is the hardest, and least unknown factor of marijuana botany. (Resins, and such). Potency still has an ambiguous definition when it comes to the biology of the plant.  (to us it means ...strength, but to describe potency as a biochemical assay, or biological process, is quite not there yet).


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## JBonez

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> That's what CO2 meters are for, to measure the ppm in the atmosphere. Anything that produces Co2 works.  It's the knowledge & techniques of the user that lead to faulty outcomes.
> 
> Like I said Co2 is tricky, and harder to manage.  These methods help me constantly stay at a ppm range of 700-1250ppm  (I control the ppm of course).  I don't just say they work. I can digitally check my ppm levels at anytime, and these methods have worked perfectly for me.
> If it works perfectly fine for me, and not for you...  then you obviously have done something wrong.
> 
> Saying these don't work is a lack of experimentation and trial and error. If they work for me, and I can measure the carbon dioxide levels directly, and accurately, ...and have seen the proof in and out for years, ... than it can work for anyone.  Especially novices, and people not looking to spend a lot of money.
> 
> 
> They work.  You just have to do it right.



You gave us a textbook breakdown about co2, 

but i got a question.

How is that relative to marijuana when the factors supporting the exceeded use of co2 are whats really important, ie: environment.

Temps must be raised, This increases transpiration, and with a bigger need to transpire comes the need to process minerals and move nutrients and water through the plants system.

This creates a humidity problem. This is directly counterproductive to raising temps in the first place.  If the plants arent capable of transpiring into the saturated air, then co2 will be useless as the plant wont make use of it in the first place.

You need to run 1200ppm or higher to see a physical difference in size/structure.  Keeping this ppm level is paramount, and unless you are running a pretty dialed sealed grow, then you would just be wasting time.

Im not even going to touch the home made co2 generators, they dont emit enough to be regulated to the saturated requirements needed to directly observe any gains. I know a few guys who had their time with co2, part of the reason i dont use it.

Imagine if you will, enhancing your cultivation skills to accomplish bigger yields would be a great goal.


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## BioDynamic

Lol - Speak of the Devil 

The Nature of Things: The Downside of High. Modern Pot Vs. 1960's

_(I'm watching it right now everyone should check it out Feb 4th)_

Premiering: Thursday January 28, 2010 at 8 pm on CBC-TV
Repeating: Thursday February 4, 2010 at 10 pm ET/PT on CBC News Network



Teenagers who start smoking marijuana before the age of sixteen are four times more likely to become schizophrenic. That's the startling conclusion of some of the world's top schizophrenia experts, whose research is featured in the new documentary The Downside of High.

The scientists' groundbreaking work on the connection between marijuana and mental illness also reveals that, for all young adults, smoking marijuana nearly doubles the risk of developing recurring psychosis, paranoia and hallucinations - the hallmarks of schizophrenia.
Ben Nixon
Ben was first introduced to marijuana while at a high school in BC. His increasingly psychotic behaviour led to a year-long hospitalization.

The Downside of High, directed and written by Bruce Mohun, tells the stories of three young people from British Columbia who believe - along with their doctors - that their mental illness was triggered by marijuana use. All three spent months in hospital psychiatric wards, and still wage a battle with their illness. Today's super-potent pot may be a big part of the problem. Modern growing techniques have dramatically increased the amount of THC, the psychoactive ingredient in marijuana - ramping up the threat to the developing teenage brain.

But there's an intriguing twist to the story: in the process of cultivating more potent strains of pot, growers have also been breeding out a little-known ingredient called cannabidiol that seems to buffer the effects of THC. So today's high-octane pot actually contains a double-whammy - more psychosis-producing THC, and less of the protective CBD or cannabidiol.
Tyler Rideout
Tyler was 14 years old when he first started experiencing psychotic episodes.

For many people, smoking marijuana is not a big deal - it is, after all, the most widely-used illegal drug in the world. The Downside of High provides a scientific perspective on some of the little-known and little discussed risks of marijuana, particularly for teenagers.

The Downside of High is directed and written by Bruce Mohun, story-produced by Maureen Palmer, and produced by Sue Ridout for Dreamfilm Productions of Vancouver.


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## Growdude

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Pics dude. You said about 2-3lb's per plant. I want to see. This could possibly change the face of growing.
> 
> PS, didn't miss best dank of 2009. My links below don't lie.


 
:yeahthat:


----------



## BioDynamic

JBonez said:
			
		

> You gave us a textbook breakdown about co2,
> 
> but i got a question.
> 
> How is that relative to marijuana when the factors supporting the exceeded use of co2 are whats really important, ie: environment.
> 
> Temps must be raised, This increases transpiration, and with a bigger need to transpire comes the need to process minerals and move nutrients and water through the plants system.
> 
> This creates a humidity problem. This is directly counterproductive to raising temps in the first place.  If the plants arent capable of transpiring into the saturated air, then co2 will be useless as the plant wont make use of it in the first place.
> 
> You need to run 1200ppm or higher to see a physical difference in size/structure.  Keeping this ppm level is paramount, and unless you are running a pretty dialed sealed grow, then you would just be wasting time.
> 
> Im not even going to touch the home made co2 generators, they dont emit enough to be regulated to the saturated requirements needed to directly observe any gains. I know a few guys who had their time with co2, part of the reason i dont use it.
> 
> Imagine if you will, enhancing your cultivation skills to accomplish bigger yields would be a great goal.




Okie dokie. If you say so. But I'm aware of the relationships of Co2 temperature and Humidity, that's why I have all 3 in on special 200$ meter. But I could very well be doing something wrong. However, it wouldn't be in the ground, or in my aerospace.


And Upstate yields 1400g or so per plant under 1000 watt HPS and HID setups by major professionals. 

I don't use any HID systems, I use mainly LED's,  except for flowering I use CFL's as my main source and LED's as a supplement....   You think that's enough to yield me over 2 pounds bud???  I think not.  I cross my Biodynamic agriculture (advanced/enhanced organic) techniques with my aeroponics techniques, ...and my infatuation with water-structuring science.   

If I'm yielding pounds with LED's & CFL's and no HID's (company uses 1000w HPS), and without doing anything right with the co2...      You really think I'm doing all that much wrong?   


The reason why I don't go beyond 1400ppm was because one time I had it at just over 2000ppm and my plants died. I know it wasn't the soil, pH or shock, or light, or over/under watering.. 
I test everything ...I use a TDS/EC Meter, ORP meter, Moisture Meter, soil & water Ph testers,  Professional Lamotte soil test kit with a couple Ion Meters NPK and NA, multi-sensor Quantum light meter, LEAF chlorophyll meter, Co2, temp, humidity, and Brix meters.   So I figured 2000 was too high, and going from 700-1400, throughout the stages of it's life would be a normal level experience for a plant.  

Guess I'll have to try something sometime.


----------



## JBonez

ok now im just bedazzled.

You are telling me that you are pushing out the required light intensity of a hid to make use of the extra co2 with flouros and led's?

You see, the extra co2 you are using can only be beneficial if you are able to political name the 5000 lumens per square foot or so output.

Hids can accomplish this, and flouros if the plant was actually scrogged so all of the plant could be exposed and the flouros kept close.

You might think of switching to hid's to make use of that co2, the added intensity would benefit you greatly.


----------



## legalize_freedom

LOL...you thought up the idea of mixing vinegar and bakeing soda huh???  Thats funny because I have never met you and I have heard about it.  Tried it and through it in the trash, when it didn't work..."your idea" must have really traveled...did you get a patent on that?....lololol

I'm interested in seeing your proof on all that you are claiming ...you got pics?  Cause it's going to take alot to convince most of this that have been doing this stuff for a couple of minutes.


----------



## warfish

BioDynamic,  You only grow 4 plants at a time in a small chamber and you get 2-3 lbs per plant.  Hmm, ok...

A good yielding plant will give lets say 500 gm per sq meter.  So lets say with your super seeds and technique you can even triple that at 1500g per sq meter.  Thats a bit over 3 lbs per sq meter.  To average it out lets say you get 2.5 lbs per plant, 4 plants, thats 10 lbs.
So you need 3.33 sq meters area with all that said in order to obtain the 10 lbs.  Thats 35 sq ft of area.  Hardly a small self contained chamber.
Now your talking a large area to have to regulate co2 in not too mention you would need 315,000 lumens of light for that area to take advantage of the extra co2 your supposedly creating.  I'm betting your cfl's and led's are far short of even half of that.

I do believe that to come in here and make such claims while offering no proof of said claims is just inviting doubt in you.  

My advice to you would be to start a grow and fully document it with pics and additional info.  Then we cannot dispute your claims.


----------



## nouvellechef

BC seeds is claiming what he says he's producing. So, idk. I must of missed BC seeds somehow. They have strains that are supposed to produce bud with 40% thc and 1200g per sq m. $400 for 10 pack. If this is true someone needs a journal on it. Lol, 1 grow would last me 10years of smoke, talk about curing process.


----------



## BioDynamic

warfish said:
			
		

> BioDynamic,  You only grow 4 plants at a time in a small chamber and you get 2-3 lbs per plant.  Hmm, ok...
> 
> A good yielding plant will give lets say 500 gm per sq meter.  So lets say with your super seeds and technique you can even triple that at 1500g per sq meter.  Thats a bit over 3 lbs per sq meter.  To average it out lets say you get 2.5 lbs per plant, 4 plants, thats 10 lbs.
> So you need 3.33 sq meters area with all that said in order to obtain the 10 lbs.  Thats 35 sq ft of area.  Hardly a small self contained chamber.
> Now your talking a large area to have to regulate co2 in not too mention you would need 315,000 lumens of light for that area to take advantage of the extra co2 your supposedly creating.  I'm betting your cfl's and led's are far short of even half of that.
> 
> I do believe that to come in here and make such claims while offering no proof of said claims is just inviting doubt in you.
> 
> My advice to you would be to start a grow and fully document it with pics and additional info.  Then we cannot dispute your claims.





Warfish... Like I said I don't blame people for doubting me. I didn't come here to show off, I didn't come here to brag, or say I am better than anyone. I thought I was here to share how I got it, but everyone seems to be stuck in some sort of bigot robot mode.  You ever seen a 13 pound carrot?  Or a 90+ pound Pumpkin? ..you ever hold a lettuce head 2wice as big as your own?  


Lights -  *6  *3oow CFL 2700K  ..*.1800watts total*

 4  LED lamps ...One 400w = 1000w HPS 1400$ Highpower Illuminator Pro LED
 One 135w 185 $ Cree LED Dual band
 One 35w 80$  tri-band
 One 35w 80$  660nm

*4 300w CFL 6000K .... 1200Watts*
            2 250w 3000K  ...500watts



Trust me ...I have more than enough light.



ANd when you grow with Both BioDynamic techniques, and Aeroponics ....  You too would be surprised by your own work.

And I never said I keep my plants in a  chamber their whole life.  Sometimes they go from aeroponic, to my personal soil, ...to outside.  Sometimes reverse, or a different order.

And documenting an illegal grow op is very dangerous in this area. Laws and enforcement are different everywhere.  And it is a big factor in the way people grow and do things. It's just like another factor of Growing.  Why i don't use HID's, ...Why I don't take pics of an Illegal grow op to forever upload them to my computer then to a public forum for anyone to trace. However, .... I have 2 beauties growing right now. now 13 days old from planted germination...each has 10 leaves.  
Maybe ... I will takes pictures at the end of this grow ...However, I i'm not using aeroponics or any chamber unless I finish my big screen tv secret grow box (lol)

I'll see what I can do


----------



## monkeybusiness

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> You ever seen a 13 pound carrot?  Or a 90+ pound Pumpkin? ..you ever hold a lettuce head 2wice as big as your own?


Sure i've seen those. What i haven't seen is a 2 lb indoor pot plant and i still don't..
The difference is when these people did what seems like the impossible they actually took pictures and documented it. They didn't just say it happened and expected people to believe the 'extremely implausible'.

 I know you say you're not going to take pics of an illegal grow op but until you can provide some kind of documentation as to what you claim, then no one is going to buy into it because we all know the likelihood of it being complete rubish. I would be more than happy to give you credit for such an unbelievable accomplishment but without seeing it it will have to remain 'unbelievable'.


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> Sure i've seen those. What i haven't seen is a 2 lb indoor pot plant and i still don't..
> The difference is when these people did what seems like the impossible they actually took pictures and documented it. They didn't just say it happened and expected people to believe the 'extremely implausible'.
> 
> I know you say you're not going to take pics of an illegal grow op but until you can provide some kind of documentation as to what you claim, then no one is going to buy into it because we all know the likelihood of it being complete rubish. I would be more than happy to give you credit for such an unbelievable accomplishment but without seeing it it will have to remain 'unbelievable'.





You seen those?  Good, because the same thing can happen with buds 

It's fine though. I guess it is unrealistic for me to believe someone would want to try and do what I did to see if they get the same results themselves.  Except of course done in their HID's for better results. 
If endangering myself by taking  pictures to prove is what it takes then I guess that's all there is to it.  No point in dragging on the conversation if all it leads to is a bunch of people in doubt and disbelief. 

I won't speak of it anymore. Sooner or later it'll speak for itself from somewhere out there


----------



## nouvellechef

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> I won't speak of it anymore. Sooner or later it'll speak for itself from somewhere out there


 
Now were talking!! I have seen a 12oz er indoor and man it had string everywhere. I guess I want to believe you man and I will be the first to say, srry dude, you were right. The BC seed bank claims what you say. I got some extra money, maybe I will try to get some of those seeds and I will do a journal. If your knocking out 2-3lb's per plant with LED and CFL's, thats baller status, imo. Hope to see you around here more.

PS, it does not stay on your CPU forever when you take pics either.


----------



## legalize_freedom

send me some of those 400 dallar seeds for free, and I'll document the whole process....but I won't believe it until I have seen it...come on man, would you believe me if I came from no where makeing these claims, and refused to show a pic.  Hell I was accused of not really growing on this site, because I couldn't provide a pic...and I wasn't even makeing any claims out of the ordinary...lol...the doubt is to be expectd.


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Now were talking!! I have seen a 12oz er indoor and man it had string everywhere. I guess I want to believe you man and I will be the first to say, srry dude, you were right. The BC seed bank claims what you say. I got some extra money, maybe I will try to get some of those seeds and I will do a journal. If your knocking out 2-3lb's per plant with LED and CFL's, thats baller status, imo. Hope to see you around here more.
> 
> PS, it does not stay on your CPU forever when you take pics either.




No apology necessary. 

And for the record ...My methods of growing are highly unusual and unconventional...

I use electricity to electro-shock my plants on a regular basis. This is one of my main reasons I have such great growth and yield even under dim light. 
(I won my grade 11 science fair because I grew a plant in total darkness using electricity)


For soils recipes I use    

*AZOMITE* (very unique volcanic rock dust)  70+ trace elements
Glacial Rock dust
*Vashon* Glacial Rock Powder (Paramagnetic) 60 trace elements
Magnetite & Paramagnetic Rock Dust
Soil Ox
Vermicompost
powdered quartz
I use 7 species of ectomycorrhizal and 7 species of endomycorrhizal fungi
and just started using Voodoo Juice
A small amount of water polymers
HUmus / HUmic acid
Fulvic acid
Crushed Egg shells


I use tons of other things as well for the soil as well. I'm always making biodynamic composts, and recipes. to add into the soil.  Every plant has its own unique amino acids, enzymes, ...pineapple for example just had a new enzyme discovered.  Plants feeding plants.

Feeding recipes are even a much different story.


----------



## nouvellechef

Grow journal homey. Wipe your CPU clean after. Easy Cheesy. I am telling you, if you can produce what you say, you will change the way ppl grow.


----------



## BioDynamic

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> send me some of those 400 dallar seeds for free, and I'll document the whole process....but I won't believe it until I have seen it...come on man, would you believe me if I came from no where makeing these claims, and refused to show a pic.  Hell I was accused of not really growing on this site, because I couldn't provide a pic...and I wasn't even makeing any claims out of the ordinary...lol...the doubt is to be expectd.




If you came making these claims, I wouldn't doubt you were telling the truth. Or even think anything of it really. I'd ask you your ingredients and if you had special techniques.

I've met many people get pounds of dope per plant and HAD THE PICS to prove it. For a couple years now I've met many people. 

And Like i said, I am an avid advocate of biodynamic agriculture and Aeroponics, The 2 healthiest and highest yielding methods in horticulture, ...

Growing 2 pounds per plant is not an outrageous claim anymore. Hasn't been for a couple years now. Maybe it's suspicious a little if the person doesn't have pictures ...  But, ...over time you can tell if a person knows what he/she is talking about, and can tell if they walk the talk.

I am highly unconventional in my methods and techniques ....I use electricity, Magnetism, monochromatic and pulsating light, plus highly mixed spectrums, UV LED's, and even begun testing ultrasonic sound stimulation of plant growth.

I bet if you added 
 electricity, 
AZOMITE volcanic rock dust
*Vashon* Glacial Rock Powder
and some magnetite 

You'd increase your yield by at least an ounce or 2, if not more


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Grow journal homey. Wipe your CPU clean after. Easy Cheesy. I am telling you, if you can produce what you say, you will change the way ppl grow.





Lol ._*..wrong. *_ Whatever goes on your computer stays on your computer forever. Doesn't matter if you  reformat, or wipe it all clean.  POlice and hackers can bring up anything that has ever been on your computer or that has been deleted off your computer.

Hacker 101 ...Nothing is ever fully gone or deleted. You want to clear your computer/ hard drives ...throw them in the microwave.


I can't change anything. I made the change myself to conform to get these yields.  I'm sure I'm still not doing the best I can achieve. 

The face of growing changed by itself.  I'm not the only one producing these outcomes there are hundreds of people especially here in Canada. There is one guy I talked to i remember his name o one of these forum DAVE ..with a number in the name ...He knows. I seen his plants one cola was over a foot long. 17 inches !!!  ...he got 2.5 pounds average off all of his kush plants.


These new genetics, new methods, new products, ....The change has already happened my friend ...we just have to catch up


----------



## jmansweed

2 to 3 pounds indoor with led lights!? I'm sorry but pictures are in order here. I'm w/ Legalize on this one. If your so concerned about proof on the computer why are you on it in the first place? I used to be nervouse about this also but once you decide to share information, you may as well jump in. I'm guilty of not posting pics here and there myself - I was called out on a site for promoting Hygrozyme. I was called shilling and had to work to restore my rep. convincing every one I literally didn't work for Hygrozyme. What with your rep anyway? 

You do realize your claiming larger indoor yeilds (with your light conditions)than any one has heard of on this site or any site I've been on for that matter. Nouvell is correct - you would change the face of growing if these claims are legitament. In fact, if you have proof of this I think incarceration is the last thing you would have to worry about. Fighting off High Times employees would be more of an issue I think. I'm very familiar myself with increasing the paramagnetic force of soil and how increasing electrical conductivity can effect growth rates. I've experimented myself with this some what. Increasing plants relasionships with the Earths magnetic core so to speak. All these things are interesting and exciting.

As I mentioned I've been wrongly accused myself on a site and I'll refrain from doing the same. Much of your technical information is accurate and interesting but I can't swallow these claims - electicity or not - proof is appropriate at this point.

Thanks for sharing your info but please elaborate : 

thanks - Jman


----------



## Growdude

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> I've met many people get pounds of dope per plant and HAD THE PICS to prove it. For a couple years now I've met many people.



Please post links to these pictures, I just want to see what size buds it takes to make a 2-3 pound harvest from one plant.

P.S. a low level format will erase everything from your computer, I know its a bit rash to keep your computer clean but it will.


----------



## Growdude

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> I seen his plants one cola was over a foot long. 17 inches !!!  ...he got 2.5 pounds average off all of his kush plants.



Wow 17 inches ..... that's nothing compared to my grows but Ive never gotten yields like that.


----------



## nouvellechef

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Lol ._*..wrong. *_Whatever goes on your computer stays on your computer forever. Doesn't matter if you reformat, or wipe it all clean. POlice and hackers can bring up anything that has ever been on your computer or that has been deleted off your computer.
> 
> Hacker 101 ...Nothing is ever fully gone or deleted. You want to clear your computer/ hard drives ...throw them in the microwave.
> 
> 
> I can't change anything. I made the change myself to conform to get these yields. I'm sure I'm still not doing the best I can achieve.
> 
> The face of growing changed by itself. I'm not the only one producing these outcomes there are hundreds of people especially here in Canada. There is one guy I talked to i remember his name o one of these forum DAVE ..with a number in the name ...He knows. I seen his plants one cola was over a foot long. 17 inches !!! ...he got 2.5 pounds average off all of his kush plants.
> 
> 
> These new genetics, new methods, new products, ....The change has already happened my friend ...we just have to catch up


 
I will bet he used HID's? I can believe 2lb's plus with long veg time and long flower, perfect enviroment and a expert grower. CFL's, electroshock, fingering your plants(fems hopefully) and whatever else you claim is non sense dude and you know it. Either way i wish you future green mojo, lord knows you need it. out...


----------



## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> 2 to 3 pounds indoor with led lights!? I'm sorry but pictures are in order here. I'm w/ Legalize on this one. If your so concerned about proof on the computer why are you on it in the first place? I used to be nervouse about this also but once you decide to share information, you may as well jump in. I'm guilty of not posting pics here and there myself - I was called out on a site for promoting Hygrozyme. I was called shilling and had to work to restore my rep. convincing every one I literally didn't work for Hygrozyme. What with your rep anyway?
> 
> You do realize your claiming larger indoor yeilds (with your light conditions)than any one has heard of on this site or any site I've been on for that matter. Nouvell is correct - you would change the face of growing if these claims are legitament. In fact, if you have proof of this I think incarceration is the last thing you would have to worry about. Fighting off High Times employees would be more of an issue I think. I'm very familiar myself with increasing the paramagnetic force of soil and how increasing electrical conductivity can effect growth rates. I've experimented myself with this some what. Increasing plants relasionships with the Earths magnetic core so to speak. All these things are interesting and exciting.
> 
> As I mentioned I've been wrongly accused myself on a site and I'll refrain from doing the same. Much of your technical information is accurate and interesting but I can't swallow these claims - electicity or not - proof is appropriate at this point.
> 
> Thanks for sharing your info but please elaborate :
> 
> thanks - Jman





Did I say I only use LED's???  re-read the light list. May not be LED's, but for 2-4 plants ...over 3000 watts of 7 different types of lighting ...

Anyone has never heard of??   Actually... It only seems to be you people who have never...

I have found many people who grow pounds per plant indoors.  So stop singling me out as if I am the only one?  This news is old, but not exactly viral. 

HOW ABOUT IF YOU WANT PROOF ....You simply look for those people who yield that much.  Make a new thread calling out top all Pound growers.  See if any show up ....there are some in grasscity ... and rollitup .

I AM NOT THE ONLY ONE WHO HAS ACCOMPLISHED THIS.   Sheesh.

And you are the first one Jman, who has known a little something other than conventional.  Have you actually attempted the electro-shock?  It's amazing. I would back up the electro-shock before I would the 2pounds.  


And my lighting conditions are better than using JUST HID's.


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> I will bet he used HID's? I can believe 2lb's plus with long veg time and long flower, perfect enviroment and a expert grower. CFL's, electroshock, fingering your plants(fems hopefully) and whatever else you claim is non sense dude and you know it. Either way i wish you future green mojo, lord knows you need it. out...






Lol. If you say so oh mighty lord who has tried it for himself.


----------



## jmansweed

You mentioned you have 4 LED lights that produce amazing roots?! on page 2

"I am highly unconventional in my methods and techniques ....I use electricity, Magnetism, monochromatic and pulsating light, plus highly mixed spectrums, UV LED's, and even begun testing ultrasonic sound stimulation of plant growth."

I believe you mentioned LED's above also. What is your lighting? You also mentioned CFL's.


----------



## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> You mentioned you have 4 LED lights that produce amazing roots?! on page 2
> 
> "I am highly unconventional in my methods and techniques ....I use electricity, Magnetism, monochromatic and pulsating light, plus highly mixed spectrums, UV LED's, and even begun testing ultrasonic sound stimulation of plant growth."
> 
> I believe you mentioned LED's above also. What is your lighting? You also mentioned CFL's.





Yes, LED's produce amazing root growth. I see it everytime when I go from soil to aeroponics, or when I do straight Aero.  LED's really do have amazing effects.  NOT FOR FLOWERING!!   But i guess since i do not have pics it won't be true.

============================================

Lights -  *6   *3oow CFL 2700K  ..*.1800watts total*

           4*  LED lamps *
One 600w  1400$ Highpower Illuminator Pro LED  (i stated before 400w, but its 600w)
                                 One 135w 185$ Cree LED Dual band (normally costs 300$)
                                 One 35w  80$  tri-band
                                 One 35w  80$  660nm

*4 300w CFL 6000K .... 1200Watts*
            2 250w 3000K  ...500watts  ..easy to add more
====================================== 

I am in the middle of experimenting with Ultra Violet Light as well. I bought a couple devices that have 50 UV LED's ...I'll be testing the effects of UV in different ways as when I get some more seeds.  I have never had anything more beneficial than electricity.  Applying electricity to a grow is PHENOMENAL.


----------



## BioDynamic

Growdude said:
			
		

> Please post links to these pictures, I just want to see what size buds it takes to make a 2-3 pound harvest from one plant.
> 
> P.S. a low level format will erase everything from your computer, I know its a bit rash to keep your computer clean but it will.




They are not links, they are people in forums.   Go to grasscity, and rollitup ...there's people in those 2 that yield pounds. 

I will go through and see if I can find any of them again ..One IS named DAVE ....he's the one with 2.5 pounds per kush plant.  Beautiful pics ....


----------



## BioDynamic

These are 2 pics I saved from when I talked to a Guy (I think Dave had the 2.5 pound Kush plants)


----------



## jmansweed

Bio,

3000 watts is more like it - I'm sorry I missed that. Can you talk to us about how many plants you run under that 3000 watts? Lets talk grams per lumen and/or grams per watt please. I'll easily pull that much wieght off 3000 watts. I also am well aware people have produced incredible yeilds off individual plants. I myself have pulled substaincial amounts off an indoor individual. There are proven strains, like those of Arjans Haze that can consistantly make huge harvests when grown correctly for example. I'm not doubting your claims but I'm questioning your methods. Not in legitimancy but in methodology. Are you for example vegging a single plant for long periods of time to create a large, appropriate foundation? These types of things are important to reveal when making huge harvest claims. 

In truth - this thread is for the OP. I don't want to stray into our tecniques. I'll make a new thread - like the one your saying will bring the heavy growers out of the wood work. We can discuss my involvment with electro-magnetic experimentation there Bio. I find it very interesting and yes, I have experimentated with it.

Thanks guys......Jman


----------



## nouvellechef

I agree with above. I want to look into your grows further and understand them. If you have been on other sites, you should know, without documentation, might as well not chime in. Just the virtual world. Can you expand on a single grow please. Start to finish.

Aeroponic
veg time
flower time
nute schedule
total watts
ventilation set up
strain
Number of plants
Sq ft
etc

Thanx and looking foward to understanding this. I told you, other growers recognize that this could change growing if a schedule was adhered too.

PS, i dont care what other growers have achieved. I care about your grows.


----------



## jmansweed

started it:

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=52100


----------



## Growdude

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> View attachment 149721
> 
> 
> View attachment 149722
> 
> 
> 
> These are 2 pics I saved from when I talked to a Guy (I think Dave had the 2.5 pound Kush plants)


 
These buds are average, but lets hope there more of them because this is not 2.5 pounds.

Here are some buds for ya, this entire harvest was 740 grams.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Gallery/showgallery.php/cat/521


----------



## BioDynamic

Growdude said:
			
		

> These buds are average, but lets hope there more of them because this is not 2.5 pounds.
> 
> Here are some buds for ya, this entire harvest was 740 grams.
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/Gallery/showgallery.php/cat/521





Ya there was tons of buds, i just took 2 pics out of apprx. 20


----------



## monkeybusiness

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> I've met many people get pounds of dope per plant and HAD THE PICS to prove it. For a couple years now I've met many people.
> 
> And Like i said, I am an avid advocate of biodynamic agriculture and Aeroponics, The 2 healthiest and highest yielding methods in horticulture, ...
> 
> Growing 2 pounds per plant is not an outrageous claim anymore. Hasn't been for a couple years now.



If so many people have accomplished this there would be pictures on the internet. Not pictures of a few drying buds (that don't prove a thing) but pics with the actual plants. If more than a few have accomplished this then _SOMEONE_ wouldn't be able to resist a picture of a 2 lb plant. 

It's like saying you can lift a car over your head and not providing proof. And frankly, if someone _COULD_ lift a car over their head, there's no way they _WOULDN"T_ take a picture of it. If more than a few people (as you claim) have raised 2 and 3 lb plants, there _WOULD_ be a picture. But there isn't because it hasn't been done. And it sure as heck hasn't been done under fluorescents! Pure fiction..



(what's next, you gonna tell us you _SELL_ just such a system?)


----------



## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> Bio,
> 
> 3000 watts is more like it - I'm sorry I missed that. Can you talk to us about how many plants you run under that 3000 watts? Lets talk grams per lumen and/or grams per watt please. I'll easily pull that much wieght off 3000 watts. I also am well aware people have produced incredible yeilds off individual plants. I myself have pulled substaincial amounts off an indoor individual. There are proven strains, like those of Arjans Haze that can consistantly make huge harvests when grown correctly for example. I'm not doubting your claims but I'm questioning your methods. Not in legitimancy but in methodology. Are you for example vegging a single plant for long periods of time to create a large, appropriate foundation? These types of things are important to reveal when making huge harvest claims.
> 
> In truth - this thread is for the OP. I don't want to stray into our tecniques. I'll make a new thread - like the one your saying will bring the heavy growers out of the wood work. We can discuss my involvment with electro-magnetic experimentation there Bio. I find it very interesting and yes, I have experimentated with it.
> 
> Thanks guys......Jman




I never grow more than 4 plants.

And my one LED is a high-power 1400$ machine.   Not from china, nor hong kong, nor taiwan.  Not a cheap *** model, not street light LED's,  not a joke.  Again, LED's are not prime for flowering, but for establishing very fine healthy plants and massive root zones, they are a treasure. 
I've personally seen that point dozens of times in my own aeroponic set ups.   



And you can't talk grams per watt or lumen.  Because each light bulb of a different technology produces different results in that respect.  600w HPS, is different than a 600w CFL, or 600w LED. Each producing it's own effects on the plant itself. Which is why I use LED's of 6 different wavelengths  (460nm, 555nm, 615nm, 635nm, 660nm, and white LED's which have a combination of a few wavelengths)  ANd why I use 2700K, 6000K, 3000K, and the radiation that comes from incandescents.  (Yes, I throw in a few of those during flowering, not for the yield I dont believe it does much, but it does something it does add far red. 
For vegging, I use the incandescents to simulate sunrise and sunset with the pr and pfr phytochrome response.  ...I even do some other things but I won't get into it.


LED's may not be able to be a main source of light for flowering due to lack of far red radiation, etc. , ..But none the less LED's effects on the plants are undeniable.   Plants grow. They grow fairly quickly, and the best part is the root mass. If I never would have seen LED's in aeroponics I never would have been interested, and still wouldn't know what they are about.  But the difference was great enough for me to notice and to make me change some ways.

And a very good point about being more specific about my grow. But see nobody had any inquiry after i simply told my side. They just blabbered me into different speeches and doubting and ..etc, instead of asking for certain details.

But yes, key point is I do grow my plants for a fairly long time.  I start growing in January _(my plants are 13 days old right now_) ...and I begin flowering in August or so. About a month or so before this entire area explodes with marijuana (Oct). Prices are very high, everyone is dry, ...and the green is nothing but gold.  Usually 6-7 months of Veg, and 2-3 1/2 months of flowering.  Schedules are always different sometimes shorter, sometimes even shorter than shorter.

But, my plants grow quickly and vigorous regardless of what light I use, ...my soil alone gets plants to explode into life. It's one of the reasons why I do not feed my plants anything for the first 3 weeks .of their lives.  And why I speak highly of BioDynamics. 

I also use electro-shock after the 3 week mark as well almost everyday. And, I should really start documenting the results from it. I think I'm only going to shock one of my plants for a few weeks and take some pictures for you guys. I germinated them, planted them, and did/do everything identically. They are 13 days old right now, untouched. I'll start in one week, and we'll see 


And besides that, ... Here is also how I am able to prepare for the big times...for I am a big fan of *Triacontanol* and *Brassinolide. *

During the middle of Veg I will also add Gibberillic Acid 3x. Two weeks apart each. No more than 3x.

The odd times I use IAA and IBA, ...and once in awhile I will use NAA, but since LED's, I don't really have a need to mess around with NAA, but once in awhile.


These methods allow me to get from zero to 90, in no time at all. It's not hard to get a plant that's only 1 month old, and have it at 4-6 feet tall, ...or with other dimensions.   Although that's not anything recommended, I'm just saying.  Time can be manipulated for plant life.

Again, I don't blame you guys for your doubts.  But, instead of doubting or denying, or being a bigot, .......learning to confront everything with epistemological skepticism can be a much better way to approach the unknown or the 'unheard of'.


(and I'm not just talking to one person here, I know I'm quoting one of you, but I'm usually talking to everyone whenever I reply


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> If so many people have accomplished this there would be pictures on the internet. Not pictures of a few drying buds (that don't prove a thing) but pics with the actual plants. If more than a few have accomplished this then _SOMEONE_ wouldn't be able to resist a picture of a 2 lb plant.
> 
> It's like saying you can lift a car over your head and not providing proof. And frankly, if someone _COULD_ lift a car over their head, there's no way they _WOULDN"T_ take a picture of it. If more than a few people (as you claim) have raised 2 and 3 lb plants, there _WOULD_ be a picture. But there isn't because it hasn't been done. And it sure as heck hasn't been done under fluorescents! Pure fiction..
> 
> 
> (what's next, you gonna tell us you _SELL_ just such a system?)




I  know it was ignorant sarcasm, but Why sell a system when you can _share the knowledge_ and get the same results?


 I didn't come here to talk **** for some unknown reason.  I finally felt I was good and knowledgeable enough to converse with professionals and the like. (These forums).  As far I was concerned, ...everyone already knew the revolution of 2008-09, ...And I've seen many ppl talk and show their op, all in the pounds before these super-strains...  I apologize, but I thought it was a common thing. Because it certainly isn't impossible, or implausible.  

And I have also seen a man support a car on top of his head ..V.Wagon if I remember correctly.

 It's like saying a 12pound carrot doesn't exist.  Yet, many many many people have seen all those.  You think that's any different than achieving high yields from mary jane???

 Come on


----------



## legalize_freedom

Nice buds Grow dude!  You did them indoors??? I'm impressed!  Who bred the white Widow???


----------



## monkeybusiness

well first off, name calling doesn't prove your points...just your age

So lets dumb this down for little ole me. You're saying that by use of florescent and LED lighting, co2 enrichment, and electro-shock therapy you get, on average 2-3 lbs per plant? Show me a single link of a single indoor plant that produced 2-3 lbs, much less one under _florescent_ lighting  (when you can't, proceed with your name calling)


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> well first off, name calling doesn't prove your points...just your age
> 
> So lets dumb this down for little ole me. You're saying that by use of florescent and LED lighting, co2 enrichment, and electro-shock therapy you get, on average 2-3 lbs per plant? Show me a single link of a single indoor plant that produced 2-3 lbs, much less one under _florescent_ lighting  (when you can't, proceed with your name calling)





Lol ....Your ignorance is getting rather annoying.  And, if calling you a *spazz*, makes me 'immature', ...than I'll take it. You exaggerate like a 12 year old as if though I was cursing wildly and destroying your feelings.   
And since you're still only talking about Co2, and LED's ....It obviously tells me that you have either not read properly anything I've said, ...or you have no idea what half the stuff I mentioned is.  i.e TRIA, BRS, GA3, ...Aeroponics and Biodynamic agriculture (havent i said that  2 dozens times by now)?  I use over well over 3000 watts of power from 3-4 different light technologies, for only 2-4 plants.  
Perhaps go over some of my soil ingredients ... If you know what any of them are, your mouth wouldn't be yapping so rapidly

Again, I have taken much criticism for my first experience on a forum, I am not impressed, ...so before you start typing stupidity again, ...Why don't you go over the whole thing so you at least seem a little bit more intelligent the next time you speak

Second, ...NO, I DIDN'T SAY or lead on to the fact that " by the use of florescent and LED lighting, co2 enrichment, and electro-shock therapy you get, on average 2-3 lbs per plant"
See, if you actually read anything I have said, you wouldn't have been dumb enough to say something like that. I use many techniques and form.  

And the fact, that you don't read or reply in a respectful manner, (or without a lot of wrought, for that matter), depicts YOUR AGE or maturity level. 


Are you done yet?


----------



## BioDynamic

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Nice buds Grow dude!  You did them indoors??? I'm impressed!  Who bred the white Widow???





Is this towards me?  If you are talking about the 2 pics I posted, I didn't do those. Those were 2 pics i saved, (out of apprx. 20), of a Guy named DAVE, who yielded an average of 2.5 pounds per plant.  He used a Kush Plant. He had an entire room full of buds like those hanging.

One of the many people I cam across.  Who apparently don't seem to exist.


----------



## monkeybusiness

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> Show me a single link of a single indoor plant that produced 2-3 lbs, much less one under _florescent_ lighting  (when you can't, proceed with your name calling)





			
				BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Lol ....Your ignorance is getting rather annoying.  And, if calling you a *spazz*, makes me 'immature', ...than I'll take it. You exaggerate like a 12 year old as if though I was cursing wildly and destroying your feelings.
> And since you're still only talking about Co2, and LED's ....It obviously tells me that you have either not read properly anything I've said, ...or you have no idea what half the stuff I mentioned is.  i.e TRIA, BRS, GA3, ...
> 
> Again, I have taken much criticism for my first experience on a forum, I am not impressed, ...so before you start typing stupidity again, ...Why don't you go over the whole thing so you at least seem a little bit more intelligent the next time you speak
> 
> Second, ...NO, I DIDN'T SAY or lead on to the fact that " by the use of florescent and LED lighting, co2 enrichment, and electro-shock therapy you get, on average 2-3 lbs per plant"
> See, if you actually read anything I have said, you wouldn't have been dumb enough to say something like that.
> 
> And the fact, that you don't read or reply in a respectful manner, (or without a lot of wrought, for that matter), depicts YOUR AGE or maturity level.
> 
> 
> Are you done yet?


that's what i thought


----------



## Old_SSSC_Guy

i am sure you mean well Bio, but what you say just comes off like somebody claiming they grew mondo bud in a Phototron or something.  best of luck in your testing regardless...


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> that's what i thought





Explain to me what links have to do with other people on forums.

You can find the links just as easily as I can.  So... what are you trying to prove exactly?


----------



## BioDynamic

Old_SSSC_Guy said:
			
		

> i am sure you mean well Bio, but what you say just comes off like somebody claiming they grew mondo bud in a Phototron or something.  best of luck in your testing regardless...






Yes, but you don't seem to understand.  I'm coming here not trying to claim any thing. I thought this was where people come to tell times of growing.  Not discriminate, or use sarcasm to put down others.

Because I'm one in tons of people who happen to have a different outcome from others all of a sudden I'm a joker.

And growing MONDO bud, ..is 100x easier than growing Potent bud.  Anyone can manipulate the plant to yield TONS of bud .trick to increase your yield ...Birth control pills. I watched my dad experiment with that a few times ...quite detailing ....Doesn't mean it'll even get you high.  Listen a pound or 2 on one plant... Is not highly unheard of.

If I can randomly find people with a similar kind of op ..So can monkeyman


Do you think hydroponics is hard to average 2.5 pounds of dope?  No.  Indoors? No.... Outdoors?  ...3x easier to grow pounds.


----------



## BioDynamic

Old_SSSC_Guy said:
			
		

> i am sure you mean well Bio, but what you say just comes off like somebody claiming they grew mondo bud in a Phototron or something.  best of luck in your testing regardless...






Yes, but you don't seem to understand.  I'm coming here not trying to claim any thing. I thought this was where people come to tell times of growing.  Not discriminate, or use sarcasm to put down others.

Because I'm one in tons of people who happen to have a different outcome from others all of a sudden I'm a joker.

And growing MONDO bud, ..is 100x easier than growing Potent bud.  Anyone can manipulate the plant to yield TONS of bud ...Doesn't mean it'll even get you high.  Listen a pound or 2 on one plant... Is not highly unheard of.

If I can randomly find people with a similar kind of op ..So can monkeyman


Do you think hydroponics is hard to average 2.5 pounds of dope?  No.  Indoors? No.... Outdoors?  ...3x easier to grow pounds.


I don't understand, how you people think someone could come on here, make up an imaginary grow , ...spend all this time wasting it trying to talk to a bunch of digital people, for a pleasure that I can't even begin to understand???   I don't get how coming on here and making up stories would ........would........jesus in all hell it doesnt make one degree of sense.  Like f**k.  

Ya, lets make up an imaginary grow, create a thing and become a member of a forum , tell people a fake story and back it up with a million things to say, and ........what?  get what out of it?  a laugh????    My dad just died, and the the mother of my son just killed herself.   You really think I'm looking for a GxD damn laugh? Or to make up jokes and fairy tales and waste my ******* time  like ***....sorry  sorry sory ..... starting to get a little agitated over a digital application. Apologies

I just don't understand what antics you people are used to seeing from other people on here, ...But  ...I'm sorry to hear ...but ..I'm no ******* joke. My words are not jokes, ..and if you people do not believe in pounds ,.....MAYBE YOU SHOULD  BE EXPLORING more dynamics of marijuana horticulture


----------



## jmansweed

BioDynamic,

Understand you posted some hefty claims regarding growth rates and potency. People here are calling you out for the simple reason that claiming something and explaining something are two different things. We would all be excited if you put together a thread that explained your methods and results. 

Pictures are not the only way to explain. Obviously your eager to share some ideas and we are all eager to hear them. You have to realize spouting out some growth hormones names and fancy jargon on lights explains nothing to the majority of readers here.

Start by explaining why and how then you can show us results. Now, instead of actually sharing info with anyone this thread has begun to spin out. You guys are busy name calling. Lets concentrate on valuable context.

If your methods of growing are the practice of many growers who have achieved large numbers please tell us specifics. The reason Monkey asked you to dumb it down is because frankly, there's a bunch of wordy ** in between broad statements associated with wavelengths and phytochrome responses. All of which some of us are familiar with. None of which explains how you achieve pounds a plant. 

Break it down on a new thread of your own man. Give us some real numbers on vegetative times and lighting schedules. We are only asking from you what many of us ask from each other.

I also want to point out to every one reading that yes, vegging a plant out for 7 to 8 months can produce huge foundations for flowering but is entirely uneconomical in the larger scheme. Even if yielding 2 pounds a plant, growing 4 plants under 3000 watts flowering. Thats only a little more than 8 pounds in 10 or 11 months. With a perpetual harvest growing average sized plants I'll produce well over 25 lbs in the same amount of time with 3000 watts as I'm sure many of you would. We need to put things in perspective here.

Biodynamics, stop being so defensive and proactively shut every one up with a thoughtful thread explaining things in manner that everyone understands please.

Hope this all works out and happy smoking

Jman


----------



## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> BioDynamic,
> 
> Understand you posted some hefty claims regarding growth rates and potency. People here are calling you out for the simple reason that claiming something and explaining something are two different things. We would all be excited if you put together a thread that explained your methods and results.
> 
> Pictures are not the only way to explain. Obviously your eager to share some ideas and we are all eager to hear them. You have to realize spouting out some growth hormones names and fancy jargon on lights explains nothing to the majority of readers here.
> 
> Start by explaining why and how then you can show us results. Now, instead of actually sharing info with anyone this thread has begun to spin out. You guys are busy name calling. Lets concentrate on valuable context.
> 
> If your methods of growing are the practice of many growers who have achieved large numbers please tell us specifics. The reason Monkey asked you to dumb it down is because frankly, there's a bunch of wordy ** in between broad statements associated with wavelengths and phytochrome responses. All of which some of us are familiar with. None of which explains how you achieve pounds a plant.
> 
> Break it down on a new thread of your own man. Give us some real numbers on vegetative times and lighting schedules. We are only asking from you what many of us ask from each other.
> 
> I also want to point out to every one reading that yes, vegging a plant out for 7 to 8 months can produce huge foundations for flowering but is entirely uneconomical in the larger scheme. Even if yielding 2 pounds a plant, growing 4 plants under 3000 watts flowering. Thats only a little more than 8 pounds in 10 or 11 months. With a perpetual harvest growing average sized plants I'll produce well over 25 lbs in the same amount of time with 3000 watts as I'm sure many of you would. We need to put things in perspective here.
> 
> Biodynamics, stop being so defensive and proactively shut every one up with a thoughtful thread explaining things in manner that everyone understands please.
> 
> Hope this all works out and happy smoking
> 
> Jman




Do you realize How long that'd take. I would need a website, not a thread.  And phyto hormones aren't fancy.

And my claims about potency came from the genetics not my techniques. So my only claim, is high yields.

(ToBeC)


----------



## nouvellechef

It could change peoples lives for the better. That should be enough of a factor to put it into perspective for everyone lurking and posting. I for one would love to see it in a new thread. As far as I know the MODS would let you type as much as you physically can. Get er done.


----------



## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> BioDynamic,
> 
> Understand you posted some hefty claims regarding growth rates and potency. People here are calling you out for the simple reason that claiming something and explaining something are two different things. We would all be excited if you put together a thread that explained your methods and results.
> 
> Pictures are not the only way to explain. Obviously your eager to share some ideas and we are all eager to hear them. You have to realize spouting out some growth hormones names and fancy jargon on lights explains nothing to the majority of readers here.
> 
> Start by explaining why and how then you can show us results. Now, instead of actually sharing info with anyone this thread has begun to spin out. You guys are busy name calling. Lets concentrate on valuable context.
> 
> If your methods of growing are the practice of many growers who have achieved large numbers please tell us specifics. The reason Monkey asked you to dumb it down is because frankly, there's a bunch of wordy ** in between broad statements associated with wavelengths and phytochrome responses. All of which some of us are familiar with. None of which explains how you achieve pounds a plant.
> 
> Break it down on a new thread of your own man. Give us some real numbers on vegetative times and lighting schedules. We are only asking from you what many of us ask from each other.
> 
> I also want to point out to every one reading that yes, vegging a plant out for 7 to 8 months can produce huge foundations for flowering but is entirely uneconomical in the larger scheme. Even if yielding 2 pounds a plant, growing 4 plants under 3000 watts flowering. Thats only a little more than 8 pounds in 10 or 11 months. With a perpetual harvest growing average sized plants I'll produce well over 25 lbs in the same amount of time with 3000 watts as I'm sure many of you would. We need to put things in perspective here.
> 
> Biodynamics, stop being so defensive and proactively shut every one up with a thoughtful thread explaining things in manner that everyone understands please.
> 
> Hope this all works out and happy smoking
> 
> Jman




Your more than Right Jman.  but, understand, that these, ...are only heft claims to 'those', and nothing new to 'others who have already been there'

I came on here to tell my stories and explain. Dont you see? That was why I came on here was to explain how I did it, ...but then I had one impeachment after the other. (((That;s where you see the conversation begin to spiral into nothing but a lack of linguistic relativity)))

What you just told me to do finally after all htis **, was what I came here to do in the first place. And I started out, by trying to give simple advice on how to generate home-made Co2. 
Doesn't matter how much co2 ...any amount of Co2 is beneficial (relative to other co-factors). 

Next thing you know there's a war. For some reason, people can't seem to make simple home-made co2 producers work. Anything that generates Co2,...works. As long as you can handle the element and change the other related variables accordingly. But everyone had to come from all angles to counteract anything I said.

Pictures are not the only way to explain I know, ...But AFTER I STARTED EXPLAINING THINGS, ..they did nothing, but ..well you know.  BUt if you didn't notice they did not care for explanations, ..they wanted pictures for proof. Links. PICS AND LINKS PICS AND LINKS WHERE ARE THE PICS AND LINKS.   Like nobody can steal photos off the net or photoshop. 

And he said dumb down the name calling name calling....oh no, ...all I said was Spazz ... ...Seriously?  Go tell on me little kid. (not you fig. o' speech)

And maybe, ..from the very beginning,..I was here and waiting to share all my steps, and different grow ops. THAT'S WHY I JOINED.  Was to share how I got my ways and to hopefully learn other unique ways, .....So why are you giving me the lecture?  When everything your teling me is what I came here for in the first place, ....then I had a bunch of people ...bringing me into their little one dimensional dialogues.   Like they have done nothing or tried near to nothing ...any unique methods.  All they know is what everyone already knows.  ...yet they can talk upon methods, etc ...that they have no experience nor any knowledge of.  SO again, why are you lecturing me?

Maybe you should be telling those other guys how to treat people on this forum, or how to ask proper questions to assess the rest of the _____.

Am I the one who really needs a sit down chat?  Not likely.


----------



## jmansweed

We have taken time to put substantial threads together and it would benefit you also. 

I'll say it once more. Stop defending yourself with useless context and explain things properly. This is an excellent forum - I just think you started off on the wrong foot. My advice is meant only to help lead you in the right direction in regards to this community. I'll maintain the fact that I believe you have some valuable knowledge and we would like to hear about things further. However, if your not willing to take the time explain yourself properly - don't bother claiming huge yields around here.

My thread is open regarding 1 lb or more a plant indoors. Your welcome to join it when ever. It was your recommendation..............Thanks Bio

Jman


----------



## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> if your not willing to take the time explain yourself properly - don't bother claiming huge yields around here.
> 
> 
> Jman





Did I not just say that that's what I came here for???  You are doing nothing but telling me what I came here to do in the first place.

So...Stop telling me to do what I came here to do. It's hard to do that when I have people left and right saying the **** they are saying. Maybe if it was you this entire conversation, it wouldn't unfolded just as I thought, and you are explaining to me.

Why don't you tell the other people, (who should know more about these forums)  how to talk ______ to people.  Hmmm?

All I thought I was going to do was exactly what you are saying. But members of this forum, ...had to speak in their manner.

Thank you for ending the B.S.. 

 But again, ...I wouldn't have to defend myself if someone did not push forward with accusations, and denial, and oh you're b.s, your yaking crap, or blah blah blah..... You keep telling me to do this and this, Why? ...I may keep speaking but it is in response. Cause and effect my friend.  So why, are you telling me, ...what to say?  I'll stop defending myself, when people stop 'attacking'.  Because, defending can only be put into effect, ...through action.    Think


----------



## BioDynamic

And apologies Jman, and anyone really, for any temperament. But, I have very bad reactions with ignorance. And when talking over a damn computer, ...people don't seem to read, or 'hear' things properly.


Nearly everyone who posted, took the conversation and changed the direction every time.  They didn't fully read, or comprehend ...etc etc.    

I came here to talk and explain ...So, i dont understand why I am being told to ..talk and explain. When I can't because people won't shut up, and ...let me speak.  Always have to oppose, or .....etc etc etc

ok?  ok.   

Now, ...Why would I now try and explain anything to people who don't understand/know/dont want to know/ dont believe/ etc .......anything?

That's how I began, and I began with simple stuff .... and nobody took it in.  I forget which one had some experience with electricity and paramagnetism, but besides that.... nothing but negative feedback.  You think anyone wants to speak when getting comments like that???

I think the lectures need to go out to the other Do0oD's

J Do0oD


----------



## jmansweed

Alright Bio,

My point has been we want to hear what you have to say. This specific thread is not the place to do it nor was it the place to have this discussion. I attempted to make a new thread regarding "1 lb plants or more - indoors", almost immedeately after you requested it to better develop a place for a discussion of this nature. I have had experience with many things you talk about including paramagnetism and electricity associated with plant growth. Again, this is not the context for that kind of discussion nor the place to defend yourself. 

I repeat my advice because your missing my point. Stop wasting time here and approach things from a manner that would benefit not only us but yourself. I for one am interested and always welcome new ideas and perspectives. 

I'm in no place to lecture you nor anyone else on this forum. I've just been in your shoes before and am trying to help out. 

I'm going to get high and water some plants - I hope we can have a discussion some time Bio......best of luck


----------



## monkeybusiness

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> But again, ...I wouldn't have to defend myself if someone did not push forward with accusations, and denial, and oh you're b.s, your yaking crap, or blah blah blah..... You keep telling me to do this and this, Why? ...I may keep speaking but it is in response. Cause and effect my friend.  So why, are you telling me, ...what to say?  I'll stop defending myself, when people stop 'attacking'.  Because, defending can only be put into effect, ...through action.    Think


Oh please. 
You haven't had to defend yourself. You just been asked to provide one shred of evidence from anywhere or anyone on the internet to substantiate your outrageous claims. And while you say there's proof all over the internet, you still have yet to do so. Instead, you have gone into an adolescent laced tirade defending your personal self. Don't make a claim you can't possibly prove and then you won't get so personally upset. Simple enough.


----------



## zem

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> And for the record ...My methods of growing are highly unusual and unconventional...
> 
> I use electricity to electro-shock my plants on a regular basis. This is one of my main reasons I have such great growth and yield even under dim light.
> (I won my grade 11 science fair because I grew a plant in total darkness using electricity)


:huh: :shocked: i'm still in page 3 :rofl:


----------



## zem

crazy claims, you say you have 3000watts of fluros and LED's over 4 plants i'd wana see this setup with incadescents that are only useful to cook your grow and the sugar yeast crap you would need a ton of sugar in there to make the ppm's high enough at least go do the maths of the chemical reaction that results in CO2 and figure how much you would need i tell ya i did the maths and didnt bother try it because i believe in the laws of science, when mathematically i cannot provide enough CO2 then it just cant happen. you come here claiming that everyone else has missed year 2009 and you were the onky one up to date, and you dont wana post pics for safety yet you say where you live and you describe your crazy grow, i tell ya if the cops wanted to get ya they just could locate you from your posts but they would never go to a grower who claims such claims cuz then they would know that you're really growing nothing. i claim and it is my belief that you dont even grow, you might be in the period of research or maybe just fantasizing about growing, provide pics to prove me wrong PLEASE


----------



## Growdude

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> But yes, key point is I do grow my plants for a fairly long time. I start growing in January _(my plants are 13 days old right now_) ...and I begin flowering in August or so.  Usually 6-7 months of Veg, and 2-3 1/2 months of flowering.


 
My plants were vegged 2 weeks and flowered for 10. thats 3 month turnaround for 740 grams.

So in 10 months I could yeild 4.9 pounds.

The diference is I grow mine in a 2x5 closet with 1200 watts of power, no added Co2, elctroshock, hormones, birth control pills or magnets.


----------



## Growdude

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Is this towards me? If you are talking about the 2 pics I posted, I didn't do those. Those were 2 pics i saved, (out of apprx. 20), of a Guy named DAVE, who yielded an average of 2.5 pounds per plant. He used a Kush Plant. He had an entire room full of buds like those hanging.
> 
> One of the many people I cam across. Who apparently don't seem to exist.


 
No he is talking to me.

Yes LF these were grown indoors, its the White widow monsters grow in my sig.


----------



## nouvellechef

Lol. Fill the thread out, show us how it's done in a simple written format. It can be done. You have the ability to change the face of growing if put into a simple, understandable schedule. Thanx


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Few bucks? Try couple thousand. If I pull the trigger, I am for sure running those heat exchangers. So it would go, filter>fan>hood>exchanger. Think it would vastly cut down on AC. I also saw sealed off duct flanges on both walls, dual fans on both ends going thru lights when on.


for sure....i'm at about $4,000 into my setup  but i need it cause "i got alot of mouths to feed"...let me give you a better understanding of my setup....picture 1 big room with little to no ventilation...now imagine that the 1 big room has 2 smaller rooms constructed within..oh wait, here's a paint doc..


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

the Co2 will be set up to leak freely into the main room, thus being pulled into each grow room, used and then filtered back in to the main room


----------



## nouvellechef

Ok,

1: The 2, 55gal rez's feed both room thru 1" or so line.

2: The CO2 is outside the room huh and the fan pulls it in?

3: You cool your hood or no hood?

4: What size tank for CO2 and how long will it last at what ppm? 

5: So if I am gonna run a chiller inline with RO and Rez, how would it layout to the flood and drain? Water line in>RO>chiller>Rez>Flood and drain?

Thanx


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

the 55's are just a res to refill my reses lol...my veg room has no aircooled light but they're floro's . the veg room has a 45 gal res and the flower room has a 70 gal res.the flower room has 2x 1000w HPS's in sunspot 6" air cooled  hoods with a 460cfm fan to cool them. my Co2 tank is a 20lb tank i think(about 9" wide, 2 1/2' tall). to answer #5, a lot of pumps lol..


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

remember, i'm not teaching anything here...i'm asking you guys's opinion of my idea


----------



## nouvellechef

This thread got outta whack anyhow. So..

I like your set up. How you gonna know the ppm in the room? You have a monitor in there?

So will will that set up line for H2O, chiller, rez, RO work? Or should it be changed around? When you say alot of pumps, you just mean each has its own, yes?


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

most everything i use is gravity fed cept for the 2 water pumps it fill the trays. my RO fills the 55's..when i need to clean a res, i have 110 gal of RO on hand to refill with...if i was running a chiller, i would use 1 per res.. no prechilling of main RO tanks. as far as co2 ppm's, the regulator and timer should take care of that with the correct calculation.


----------



## nouvellechef

Nice. Ok so tell me how you set up a 36 spot Ebb for nute solution,

RO
Rain barrels
Ebb system
Chiller, one large chiller is more than enough to run out a 55 gal Ebb rez.

So where does the chiller fall in with the Ebb rez?


----------



## JBonez

this bio guy is nuts. What a jumbled bunch of posts.

Yo puff, ya get your answer? lol.


----------



## legalize_freedom

BioDynamic, please accept my appologies for anything I may have said that was offensive to you.  It is obvious to me that you have a wealth of knowledge in many things that alot of us here are not used to.  We are alos used to people posting pics of dang near everything, even their dogs.  So you can see why when you didn't want to show us pics, to the majority of us it looked like someone playing games. (which we do seem to get from time to time)  We here are not used to seeing yeilds that you are speaking of grown indoors, so you just need to understand that although many of us came across as harsh, it was only because to us your claims seemed to far fetched.  You definately know some things about techniques that I have never heard about, and would be interested in hearing more of, if you can find it in yourself to except my apology, and continue on with what you originally meant to do here.

You are right, many of us are set in our ways about how things should be done...it's in a way sad because even though our ways work, that can work against us.  Meaning that because we feel that we are fairly successful with the way we are doing things, we have no reason to look beyond that.  I'm sure you can understand that.  If it aint broke don't fix it mentality.  I am interested in hearing more of your ideas, and hope that this first encounter does not scare you off, or tick you off to the point of not sharing.  I know for myself I can very easily dismiss something as fiction, if it goes against the way I do things.  

I can tell by your posts that you have some excellent ideas about growing, that do not fit into the "norm", and we need people like you willing to do things like this in order to evolve...the way we are currently doing things works...but that does not mean that it is the best.  

Again please accept my apology, BTW sorry to hear about your sons mother, and your Dad!  Best wishes to you.


----------



## nouvellechef

What's the best option for a air cleaner when running CO2?


----------



## BBFan

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> BioDynamic, please accept my appologies for anything I may have said that was offensive to you. It is obvious to me that you have a wealth of knowledge in many things that alot of us here are not used to. We are alos used to people posting pics of dang near everything, even their dogs. So you can see why when you didn't want to show us pics, to the majority of us it looked like someone playing games. (which we do seem to get from time to time) We here are not used to seeing yeilds that you are speaking of grown indoors, so you just need to understand that although many of us came across as harsh, it was only because to us your claims seemed to far fetched. You definately know some things about techniques that I have never heard about, and would be interested in hearing more of, if you can find it in yourself to except my apology, and continue on with what you originally meant to do here.
> 
> You are right, many of us are set in our ways about how things should be done...it's in a way sad because even though our ways work, that can work against us. Meaning that because we feel that we are fairly successful with the way we are doing things, we have no reason to look beyond that. I'm sure you can understand that. If it aint broke don't fix it mentality. I am interested in hearing more of your ideas, and hope that this first encounter does not scare you off, or tick you off to the point of not sharing. I know for myself I can very easily dismiss something as fiction, if it goes against the way I do things.
> 
> I can tell by your posts that you have some excellent ideas about growing, that do not fit into the "norm", and we need people like you willing to do things like this in order to evolve...the way we are currently doing things works...but that does not mean that it is the best.
> 
> Again please accept my apology, BTW sorry to hear about your sons mother, and your Dad! Best wishes to you.


 
Bravo _Legalize_Freedom_!  Well said.  You truly deserve the honor that was bestowed upon you- and this is a perfect example of why you do.


----------



## nouvellechef

I bet Bio is putting together a sweet how to guide of growing big girls!! So with CO2, what is needed for exhaust for room?? Is all that's needed is a air cleaner or fans and scrubber that recycles in room?


----------



## legalize_freedom

HMMMmmmm well it looks like he may have decided this wasn't the place for him.  Guys I don't mean to preach, and I'm just as guilty of jumping on someone that comes here makeing wild claims, but I think this guy may have had some interesting things to share.  He defiantely mentioned some growing tactics that have some credibility that are a little outside of the box of "normal" thinking.  In the future we should really think about the way we come across to people...maybe try to be a little less abusive in the way we word our statements.  I hope this guy comes back, he did mention some things that I personally would like to hear more about.


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> I bet Bio is putting together a sweet how to guide of growing big girls!! So with CO2, what is needed for exhaust for room?? Is all that's needed is a air cleaner or fans and scrubber that recycles in room?


nobody cares about our posts lol...i got it figured out though...my freebies are 8 days from sprout and already have branches....i got 11 out of the 12 i planted(cause i tried to help one and killed it) and all is sound with the planning


----------



## zem

i think i might switch from HPS to cfl's and incadescents :laugh:


----------



## JBonez

funny, im actually ditching flowering with hps in favor of cfls.

I think since ive gotten that pesky "learning how to get big yields" down, i may go vertical with a couple 250w cfls, i think i can turn some heads, but i wont make any claims until i can back it up with pics at least.


----------



## nouvellechef

Word. I hooked up a car battery to the Rez and ready to shock the living you know what out of 
it. Hopefully will yield 2-3lbs per plant, well at the very least, I can say tried the shock method.

PS, he asked for it. I am all for hearing someone out. But they need to provide something more than just telling me it works. If it worked that well, he would have to think about what I said, it would change the face of growing as we know it. I wished him the best of luck and still do.


----------



## pcduck

I cannot believe I read this whole thread...Why?

But I did see an electro-shock plant grow (with pics), the plant could in no way produce 2.5 lbs..maybe a joint if it was a pinner.. the grower had also removed all fan leaves for some reason, that I cannot remember.


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

i just spent my life savings on all the ufo led boards i could find...i'm giving away my 2 luma 3.0 switchable ballasts as i feel i will no longer need them....led's and incandescent "grow" bulbs are all i should need to pull 3 lbs per plant after 25 days of flower.


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

and which one of you peters ruined my thread ???? lol  jk idc


----------



## BioDynamic

Here's a grow from 4 years ago.    


And I started shock treatment on one plant out of my 2, started almost a week ago.  And you can without a doubt tell which one I have been shocking. Leaves are already twice the size, than the untreated.  I need a digi camera.


----------



## nouvellechef

Wow, very nice man. Hope to see a grow journal from ya, you have too much talent from your words and now a pic not to share it with all of us. That is if it can be put into a format we could follow. Thanx for sharing!!


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Word. I hooked up a car battery to the Rez and ready to shock the living you know what out of
> it. Hopefully will yield 2-3lbs per plant, well at the very least, I can say tried the shock method.
> 
> PS, he asked for it. I am all for hearing someone out. But they need to provide something more than just telling me it works. If it worked that well, he would have to think about what I said, it would change the face of growing as we know it. I wished him the best of luck and still do.





Lol.   Give it time, ...sooner or later after the industrial era, sooner or later e are going to need avanced methods for cultivation in agriculture. Agriculture is the largest industry on the planet.  You know how much research is being done with electricity, magnetism and paramagnetism, ultrasound, sonic boom, monochromatic lights, pulsating light, etc etc etc etc ....   

//query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=980DE1D91530E733A25754C1A9649C946397D6CF"]//query.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=980DE1D91530E733A25754C1A9649C946397D6CF[/URL]

Like what does it say when hundreds of universities and research institutes are all proving you wrong?  Oh, that's right, you'd rather have proof from me, than a research institute.  Let's take electricity for example...

You people do realize that electricity is constantly in the atmosphere right? Electric and magnetic fields.  Plants do use these. Electrophysiology of plants has been studied for quite some time now with more extensive research than ever.
In fact ..it even now has it's on sub-science in agriculture : Electro-Culture.  Not only that, plants produce electricity. And there is millions of dollars being poured into tapping into trees as a resource for electricity they are also trying to create a hybrid plant that can produce more electricity than any other . This is all part of the Green Revolution.

//www.actahort.org/books/29/29_34.htm"]http://www.actahort.org/books/29/29_34.htm[/URL]

://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Cql6R3qxAWwJ:rsnz.natlib.govt.nz/volume/rsnz_26/rsnz_26_00_003960.pdf+electricity+and+plant+growth&hl=en&gl=ca&sig=AHIEtbT691nYSCqAc13J5_HwxurLHzZOAw"]http://docs.google.com/viewer?a=v&q=cache:Cql6R3qxAWwJ:rsnz.natlib.govt.nz/volume/rsnz_26/rsnz_26_00_003960.pdf+electricity+and+plant+growth&hl=en&gl=ca&sig=AHIEtbT691nYSCqAc13J5_HwxurLHzZOAw[/URL]

if you type with quotes "_Electroshocking plants_ brings chemical rewards"  you will find that this was news that went viral around the net after the J_American Chemical Society_ and _American Institute of Chemical Engineers_ published there findings. Not about yield, but there's a point at hand here. Might be perfect for increasing extra cannibinoids in your plants. After all, plants feed by the very action of Cation Exchange.  Long story short ...positive and negative charges. Electrical energy is essential for life, just as much as photonic energy, and magnetic energy.

www.redorbit.com/news/science/1320718/electrical_stimulation_increases_chemical_yields_in_plants/index.html"]http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/1320718/electrical_stimulation_increases_chemical_yields_in_plants/index.html[/URL]

Easy to do method >p://www.motherearthnews.com/Organic-Gardening/1984-01-01/Photovoltaic-Root-Stimulation.aspx[/URL]

//74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:3IrU1KCP1vgJ:www.unilorin.edu.ng/unilorin/publications/stimulation-of-plant-growth.pdf+electricity+and+plant+growth&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a"]http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:3IrU1KCP1vgJ:www.unilorin.edu.ng/unilorin/publications/stimulation-of-plant-growth.pdf+electricity+and+plant+growth&cd=9&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=ca&client=firefox-a[/URL]
://www.jstor.org/pss/3741480"]http://www.jstor.org/pss/3741480[/URL]

p://www.nytimes.com/1985/04/09/science/electricity-may-play-role-in-plant-growth.html[/URL]


p://www.unilorin.edu.ng/unilorin/publications/stimulation-of-plant-growth.pdf[/URL]


Not only that but new patents are being created for this method as well, researched and tested, and again, proving you wrong.
://www.freepatentsonline.com/5819467.html[/URL]


Also effects phyto-hormones like IAA >>://jxb.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/content/abstract[/URL]/28/2/338

I can list another couple dozen references and get real technical, .but hey ....it's all bull I guess.


----------



## nouvellechef

I believe you homey. Put a grow journal together so we/I can understand it. To be honest, all that stuff is way over my head. I am a great cook, father and like to smoke some herb at home. My plants put out super chron, maybe not 2lb's, but enough none the less.


----------



## bizzy323

thought led lights arent good?


----------



## legalize_freedom

Hey Bio...glad you made it back.  Hey man really That plant is unbelievable!  (see what we meant?)  Thanks for posting it.  Please stay man and tell us more about what you got going on.  The whole thing is you are talking about things that most of us here have not heard of, or have heard very little about.  I know we can come across as a bunch of animals...lol...  

Thanks for all the links to all that info, alot of them are sources that I know are reputable.  The problem is that the rules here are that we are not supposed to post live links.  Do you think you could edit them to hxxp instead of http, that way they won't get deleted, before everyone gets a chance top read them.  If you leave them like that they will get deleted as soon as a mod see's them.  I know there are a few of us that would like to read more.

Anyway glad you stuck it out, and didn't bail.  I hope you will put together a grow journal, even if you don't feel like showing pics all the time.  I've only posted 2 picks in the last 3 months...there are no rules saying you have to, just don't be surprised if people give you crap without proof...lol...sorry but it will probably continue to happen from time to time.  Just know that there are at least of a few of us that would like to see/read more, hear more from your grow etc...sometimes you have to have thick skin...you gotta understand that.  Thanks for posting all the info man!


----------



## zem

ok i have to admit, that pic got me :shocked: however i couldnt see the other plant that was not shocked? anyway for some reason i dunno what i almost believe that it's your own pic but hey thats NOT a cfl or incadescent is it?  hope to see more of your grows, not necessarily a grow journal, maybe your own thread about electroshocking plants, this is a topic i know VERY little about. cheers


----------



## Hick

> And there is millions of dollars being poured into tapping into trees as a resource for electricity they are also trying to create a hybrid plant that can produce more electricity than any other


  ......a "current" bush?????...


----------



## BioDynamic

zem said:
			
		

> ok i have to admit, that pic got me :shocked: however i couldnt see the other plant that was not shocked? anyway for some reason i dunno what i almost believe that it's your own pic but hey thats NOT a cfl or incadescent is it?  hope to see more of your grows, not necessarily a grow journal, maybe your own thread about electroshocking plants, this is a topic i know VERY little about. cheers




Ok, for the last time, ...I SAID I DO NOT USE LED'S FOR FLOWERING. OK!? UNDERSTAND PEOPLE, YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION PROPERLY. YOU ASSUME TOO MUCH AND DON'T ANALYZE ANYTHING. 

First ..that isnt the  2 plants one shocked and one not. I said its a photo from a grow from 4 years ago. To prove that high yields have been around for many many years. This is only few years back but trust me people have been doing it for much longer.

I NEVER SAID I GET HUGE YIELDS JUST BECAUSE OF LED's!!!!!!!  UNDERSTAND THAT DID YOU READ THAT?  I use LED's to establish extremely large rhizospheres, and very healthy plants throughout vegetation. I also use a couple of other lights but not much because LED's are perfect for Vegging if you know what you are doing. Every technique I use, is yield enhancing. Not just a method of maintainability.

Flowering is different I use LED's but not as my main source.!!!! <<<READ THAT for GxD sucks start understanding.  I also said I have used  HID for years. I have stopped. That's only to say that I have actual knowledge and experience with ALL lighting technologies minus the Sulphur Plasma light, ...
where as most people only know one side to the whole story but have too much to say in the matter like they actually know and have experience.

 I GET HUGE YIELDS BECAUSE I INTEGRATE THE BEST OF THE BEST of products, techniques & methods, and genetics. Along with some other very unique philosophies that I guess just don't work because everyone says so but I do them anyway, and hey guess what.

==================================
=================
==============================
ok im going to summarize what I do ..and I mean summarize greatly because . ...just because.  WHy is it easy to get such huge yields?


I NEVER GROW THE SAME WAY TWICE. I have tried so many methodologies that it's mad. I continue to use only what brought out the greatest results.

I use LED's, CFL's, Incadescents, and sunlight. Flowering only gets the sunlight because I begin vegging in January, And usually 6-7 month of Veg, and 2-3 months flowering.
I begin flowering in summer, where I can combine all my lights (if I want), plus bring my homemade setups out side for pure sun from 11:30am until 4-5pm.  Ok!? Understand people when you sit there and come up with all your gibberish that you have not been listening or inquiry with any sort of intelligence. ..actually I should say common sense.


As for products I use a very wide variety of the best this planet and any market has to offer. Understand I use extremely technical approaches that are very very dynamic in themselves for the physics and kinetics of plant growth and metabolism ...and ultimately ..of plant life.  
Did you know if done properly a country the size of Australia could yield enough food for the entire world if done properly?  Just understand you live in a very ignorant era, and some years from now, ...this'll all be over for you people. 
Even the understanding of photosynthesis will change. ****even the equation for photosynthesis will be re-written soon, as it is incomplete and ...a damn joke. I understand elementary physics and chemistry so well, that the equation that you learn in college and university I laughed when I first read it, a university books, ...and the equation is wrong in all of them. Even in encyclopedias*****   


favourite Products:  (not the whole list)

*AZOMITE, **** all-time favourite product, and all of you should do your research
*VASHON* glacial rock dust, 
*Paramagnetic, Volcanic, and Glacials rock dusts*  << (If you knew anything, these would in all your grow operations. 

*endo* and *ecto Mycorrhizal fungi,*

*trichoderma, *from certain sources, and *Harzianic Acid*
*
Biozome Archaeobacteria* & *MycoApply MAXX*

*Paenibacillus,* & a few exclusive strains of *Bacillus*, from VooDoo Juice.   
    (contains a broader range of more effective beneficial microbes than any 
     other root booster formula.)
*Water Polymers*
*Soilox*
*Hydrogen Peroxide*
*Powdered Oyster Shells* (very specific source)
*HUMUS/humic acid - *I order from a source which shall remain nameless but resides in america and has the highest % of humus in the soil in the world.
*Fulvic Acid
Sensizym - *one of the only biologically active complete enzyme regimen in the world

*Nirvana - *
And I also order a variety of  kelps and seaweed strains of all different types and make my own blends.

*Organic B
Magnetite
Mixed Crushed crystals not powdered (quartz, amethyst, etc)

(among other things)



*KEY POINT, I also use *:

Oligosaccharides* ...like *Agricultural CHITOSAN OLIGOSACCHARIDE* ....it's better than Chitosan and better than oligosacc.
*Triacontanol******
*Brassinolide******   two of my favourites
*Gibberellic Acid*
the rare time i use *IAA*. *IBA*, and *NAA* _(indole-3-acetic acid, Indole-3-butyric acid, and 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid)_


Just to name a few.



Techniques and methods are just as important ...I'm going to leave out electric shock and magnetism and all my water structuring methodologies, as ... you people are either not ready for it, or don't even care, or ...just doesnt matter.


However: I will say this:     I start in soil. Sometimes I'll keep it soil throughout the whole grow, sometimes I transplant after awhile in soil to my aeroponics system allowing it to get the best of both worlds. Sometimes  I do just aeroponics.

_rregardless of that, one technique is very important when using anything but HID's.  It's called ScrOG. Screen of Green.  A technique only around 10 years old or so. This method here, allows me to  Maximizing yield from any light source.   OK THIS HERE ....IS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHY I GET SO MUCH BUD, with my type of lighting. _*Not only that, ...i use well over 3000watts for 4 or less plants.  and I use about 5 different lighting technologies each having their own specific effects on plant growth.  LED's (specific frequencies for specific plant stages), CFL's (6000K, 3300K, and 2700K 3 different spectrums), Incadescents for extra far red to trigger pr and pfr phytochrome responses, and Full spectrums bulbs.  PLUS PLUS PLUS ...when summer comes, My friends help me take my plants outside for pure sunshine baby. Ok. I am very dynamic in every aspect of agriculture. I do a million things more than anyone I know. Don't even get me started on water.  *



If you do not know anything about *BIODYNAMIC AGRICULTURE/gardening, / movement* that's becoming viral across the world. then you do not understand why I am getting such large yields from just my soil alone.  You see when you combine yield enhancing techniques from every angle, Soil, water, plant food, atmosphere, light.  and extra external stimuli ....jesus you can yield any amount.


I don't kno what else to write, i dont want to re-read all that if I missed anything or didnt explain soemthing right or you need more detail (I left out a good 90%)  .....then by all means ask, just dont be rude, or ignorant please I am really having a hard time as it is right now, I don't need anymore. 


Apologies if I get edgy at all.


----------



## BioDynamic

zem said:
			
		

> i think i might switch from HPS to cfl's and incadescents :laugh:





That wouldn't be the best idea. Throw in some LEd's and make sure you get at least 3 different kinds of CFL's, along with 6 different frequencies of the monochromatic light.  INcandescents are used for ....super growth or anything like that  ..ok ...they emit a special radiation that doesn't come from many lights except HPS. ..Incandescent mimic HPS  (to an extent) ...so ...it benefits the grow no matter what, but it's not for spectacle.  If you can make your grow portable.  Once you start achieving really large yields, you wont ever need more than 4 plants. And you can make portable 'setups' that you hopefully have a place hidden outdoors to use sunlight as well.


----------



## BioDynamic

Hick said:
			
		

> ......a "current" bush?????...





:giggle: Haha, (if i'm getting that correctly)


----------



## nouvellechef

Holy moses dude. You got skills. I have no idea about any of that. I am sure Jman will respond, hes got skills and maybe could wrap this around his brain. GL


----------



## pcduck

so you take your plants outside everyday and bring them in everyday when in flower?


----------



## BioDynamic

pcduck said:
			
		

> so you take your plants outside everyday and bring them in everyday when in flower?



When summer arrives 6-7 months into veg, I begin flowering. I have FRIENDS come over to help me bring my set ups outside from 11:30am to 4-5pm. Maybe 6 or so ..i should really be letting them stay outside until SUNSET, AS the angle of the sun's rays to the Earth allows far red radiations to penetrate and reach plants ending/re-starting the *pr* and *pfr phytochrome response* so very important for flowering.  (WHICH IS WHY I USE INCADESCENTS TO IMITATE IT)
... Then I bring them back inside into the set up under my light set up to finish the 12 hour cycle. Throwing the sun in there obviously is the smartest thing to do and is also a big reason for yield.

I made my set ups portable 2 years ago after wanting to bring them outside but my ScrOG setup was attached to the walls. 

Now I use garbage pails as pots. 2 for one plant (one inside the other for draining), ..or sometimes I use those bins you find at wal-mart hold like 10-15 gallons.  ANd I make my ScrOG set up...and I attach it to the bin or garbage pail, so that I can (ALONG WITH FRIENDS this isnt a one person job after a certain point)  bring them outside. 


*LINK REMOVED*

^^ This is an idea of how I set it up.  Mine's a little bit different but same idea.



			
				JBonez said:
			
		

> funny, im actually ditching flowering with hps in favor of cfls.
> 
> I think since ive gotten that pesky "learning how to get big yields" down, i may go vertical with a couple 250w cfls, i think i can turn some heads, but i wont make any claims until i can back it up with pics at least.




LEARN ScrOG method!!!   It will be a highly valued method of yours once you learn (if you do not already know).  ESPECIALLY when using Fluor's or CFL's ...it maximizes yield with any type of lighting. Can even double, and if done right, triple.  (maybe not your first time)



			
				bizzy323 said:
			
		

> thought led lights arent good?




BIZZY: 


LED's are amazing.  Just not for inducing flowering or increasing the flowering process in general.  ONly as a supplement to floering lights are they really beneficial.  When flowering   You want to use HID's or CFL 2700K, and use  LED's as a supplemental light only.  LED's are monochromatic light  (light of a single wave frequency) ..and ...universities and research institutes wouldn't be spending millions of dollars in research into this technology if it wasn't the next big thing.  

*
ACTUALLY OFF TOPIC HAS ANYONE EVER USED SULPHUR PLASMA LIGHTS????*  If anyone can get ahold of this technology, ...YOU better. It's 10x better than HID's, more efficietn more powerful. I could only imagine my yields if I got ahold of it

blue (460nm)
orange (615-635nm)  (635 orange is amazing for veg growth even performed better than BLUE in many studies!!!!!! HOWEVER, YOU WANT TO COMBINE THESE COLOURS TOGETHER BLUE & ORANGE especially for Veg adding white helps develop carotenoids ...the structures of lights and effect on the physiology and biochemical processes of plants is still very highly unknown.  Some say green light has no effect on plants *hoWever THIS IS ALSO HIGHLY UNTRUE*

Red (660nm)
White LED's are a mix of yellow, green ...they have a more Full spectrum structure. 


=========


vegging - You want blue, orange, and white mostly, and a little bit of Red.

Flowering - you can either take out the Blue and white LED's, ....But Leave in Orange and RED



LED's are a blessing when it comes to establishing a beautifully impressive and massive ROOT ZONE.  Bigger roots bigger yield cold hard fact.  

My roots get so massive that I need to use garbage pails as pots.  LED's  just think VEGGING AND ROOTS.  Healthier plants more resistant to shock ( i know i transplant 3-4 times / plant / grow.    And I haven't had one problem since I switched my lighting.   Hydroponics is absolutely horrible for transplant and shock. Aeroponics solves all those problems.


----------



## legalize_freedom

Hey man thanks for posting all your amendments.  I'm going to do some reading later on azomite...I had not even heard of it before...so a big thank you!  If it will help keep my plants healthy and happy I'm all for trying new things!  So with the way you build your soil, I'm assuming that you don't use a nute line?  Just water with various teas and what not...or do you have a line that you include?  Thanks again for overlooking all the initial sarcasm!

Hick...Thanks for editing instead of deleting!!!!


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Holy moses dude. You got skills. I have no idea about any of that. I am sure Jman will respond, hes got skills and maybe could wrap this around his brain. GL





Yes, I could tell by the way Jman spoke he has more of a professional manner. I've been digging around in his posts, good reading.  So many posts all over this whole forum though, sheeshesh.  I believe he is the one who also was aware of some of the stuff I mentioned, I'm sure he might have even done small experiments, but most likely nothing ambitious.  Not sure if there is much he don't already know.


----------



## BBFan

Hey BioDynamic!

Thanks for the info.  I've been looking into these products and have made a few purchases, including another product you mentioned called "Agricolas Best Minerals".

I'm having trouble finding Soilox- it appears to have been discontinued by the manufacturer (at least that's what I found).  Any ideas on substitue or similar products?

Thanks.


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Ok, for the last time, ...I SAID I DO NOT USE LED'S FOR FLOWERING. OK!? UNDERSTAND PEOPLE, YOU ARE NOT PAYING ATTENTION PROPERLY. YOU ASSUME TOO MUCH AND DON'T ANALYZE ANYTHING.
> 
> First ..that isnt the 2 plants one shocked and one not. I said its a photo from a grow from 4 years ago. To prove that high yields have been around for many many years. This is only few years back but trust me people have been doing it for much longer.
> 
> I NEVER SAID I GET HUGE YIELDS JUST BECAUSE OF LED's!!!!!!! UNDERSTAND THAT DID YOU READ THAT? I use LED's to establish extremely large rhizospheres, and very healthy plants throughout vegetation. I also use a couple of other lights but not much because LED's are perfect for Vegging if you know what you are doing. Every technique I use, is yield enhancing. Not just a method of maintainability.
> 
> Flowering is different I use LED's but not as my main source.!!!! <<<READ THAT for GxD sucks start understanding. I also said I have used HID for years. I have stopped. That's only to say that I have actual knowledge and experience with ALL lighting technologies minus the Sulphur Plasma light, ...
> where as most people only know one side to the whole story but have too much to say in the matter like they actually know and have experience.
> 
> I GET HUGE YIELDS BECAUSE I INTEGRATE THE BEST OF THE BEST of products, techniques & methods, and genetics. Along with some other very unique philosophies that I guess just don't work because everyone says so but I do them anyway, and hey guess what.
> 
> ==================================
> =================
> ==============================
> ok im going to summarize what I do ..and I mean summarize greatly because . ...just because. WHy is it easy to get such huge yields?
> 
> 
> I NEVER GROW THE SAME WAY TWICE. I have tried so many methodologies that it's mad. I continue to use only what brought out the greatest results.
> 
> I use LED's, CFL's, Incadescents, and sunlight. Flowering only gets the sunlight because I begin vegging in January, And usually 6-7 month of Veg, and 2-3 months flowering.
> I begin flowering in summer, where I can combine all my lights (if I want), plus bring my homemade setups out side for pure sun from 11:30am until 4-5pm. Ok!? Understand people when you sit there and come up with all your gibberish that you have not been listening or inquiry with any sort of intelligence. ..actually I should say common sense.
> 
> 
> As for products I use a very wide variety of the best this planet and any market has to offer. Understand I use extremely technical approaches that are very very dynamic in themselves for the physics and kinetics of plant growth and metabolism ...and ultimately ..of plant life.
> Did you know if done properly a country the size of Australia could yield enough food for the entire world if done properly? Just understand you live in a very ignorant era, and some years from now, ...this'll all be over for you people.
> Even the understanding of photosynthesis will change. ****even the equation for photosynthesis will be re-written soon, as it is incomplete and ...a damn joke. I understand elementary physics and chemistry so well, that the equation that you learn in college and university I laughed when I first read it, a university books, ...and the equation is wrong in all of them. Even in encyclopedias*****
> 
> 
> favourite Products: (not the whole list)
> 
> *AZOMITE, **** all-time favourite product, and all of you should do your research
> *VASHON* glacial rock dust,
> *Paramagnetic, Volcanic, and Glacials rock dusts* << (If you knew anything, these would in all your grow operations.
> 
> *endo* and *ecto Mycorrhizal fungi,*
> 
> *trichoderma, *from certain sources, and *Harzianic Acid*
> 
> *Biozome Archaeobacteria* & *MycoApply MAXX*
> 
> *Paenibacillus,* & a few exclusive strains of *Bacillus*, from VooDoo Juice.
> (contains a broader range of more effective beneficial microbes than any
> other root booster formula.)
> *Water Polymers*
> *Soilox*
> *Hydrogen Peroxide*
> *Powdered Oyster Shells* (very specific source)
> *HUMUS/humic acid - *I order from a source which shall remain nameless but resides in america and has the highest % of humus in the soil in the world.
> *Fulvic Acid*
> *Sensizym - *one of the only biologically active complete enzyme regimen in the world
> 
> *Nirvana - *
> And I also order a variety of kelps and seaweed strains of all different types and make my own blends.
> 
> *Organic B*
> *Magnetite*
> *Mixed Crushed crystals not powdered (quartz, amethyst, etc)*
> 
> *(among other things)*
> 
> 
> 
> KEY POINT, I also use *:*
> 
> *Oligosaccharides* ...like *Agricultural CHITOSAN OLIGOSACCHARIDE* ....it's better than Chitosan and better than oligosacc.
> *Triacontanol******
> *Brassinolide****** two of my favourites
> *Gibberellic Acid*
> the rare time i use *IAA*. *IBA*, and *NAA* _(indole-3-acetic acid, Indole-3-butyric acid, and 1-Naphthaleneacetic acid)_
> 
> 
> Just to name a few.
> 
> 
> 
> Techniques and methods are just as important ...I'm going to leave out electric shock and magnetism and all my water structuring methodologies, as ... you people are either not ready for it, or don't even care, or ...just doesnt matter.
> 
> 
> However: I will say this: I start in soil. Sometimes I'll keep it soil throughout the whole grow, sometimes I transplant after awhile in soil to my aeroponics system allowing it to get the best of both worlds. Sometimes I do just aeroponics.
> 
> _rregardless of that, one technique is very important when using anything but HID's. It's called ScrOG. Screen of Green. A technique only around 10 years old or so. This method here, allows me to Maximizing yield from any light source. OK THIS HERE ....IS ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS WHY I GET SO MUCH BUD, with my type of lighting. _*Not only that, ...i use well over 3000watts for 4 or less plants. and I use about 5 different lighting technologies each having their own specific effects on plant growth. LED's (specific frequencies for specific plant stages), CFL's (6000K, 3300K, and 2700K 3 different spectrums), Incadescents for extra far red to trigger pr and pfr phytochrome responses, and Full spectrums bulbs. PLUS PLUS PLUS ...when summer comes, My friends help me take my plants outside for pure sunshine baby. Ok. I am very dynamic in every aspect of agriculture. I do a million things more than anyone I know. Don't even get me started on water. *
> 
> 
> 
> If you do not know anything about *BIODYNAMIC AGRICULTURE/gardening, / movement* that's becoming viral across the world. then you do not understand why I am getting such large yields from just my soil alone. You see when you combine yield enhancing techniques from every angle, Soil, water, plant food, atmosphere, light. and extra external stimuli ....jesus you can yield any amount.
> 
> 
> I don't kno what else to write, i dont want to re-read all that if I missed anything or didnt explain soemthing right or you need more detail (I left out a good 90%) .....then by all means ask, just dont be rude, or ignorant please I am really having a hard time as it is right now, I don't need anymore.
> 
> 
> Apologies if I get edgy at all.


wow....i think i'll just clone a few more to make up for the yield difference and stick to my GH 3 part for now...


----------



## zem

if your goal is research, then i suggest you do this with some laboratory help and some funding with some legal plants where you can really make a difference to the agricultural world. you're most probably wasting your money and effort, many researchers are already way ahead of you and get funded by the state, you can go work along with them and catch up from where they got, thats at least my opinion.


----------



## BioDynamic

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey BioDynamic!
> 
> Thanks for the info.  I've been looking into these products and have made a few purchases, including another product you mentioned called "Agricolas Best Minerals".
> 
> I'm having trouble finding Soilox- it appears to have been discontinued by the manufacturer (at least that's what I found).  Any ideas on substitue or similar products?
> 
> Thanks.




SoilOX = hxxp://www.elementshydroponics.com/item/887 
hxxp://www.wellcoolstuff.com/thestore/prods/WANS.html

hxxp://growmaster.co.uk/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=144

hxxp://www.irishheadstores.com/product/A_Z/Soilox_1kg_Nutrients/7545


*  (Am I allowed to post links like this at least) ?  *


----------



## zem

PUFF MONKEY said:
			
		

> wow....i think i'll just clone a few more to make up for the yield difference and stick to my GH 3 part for now...


:yeahthat: and just how many lifetimes of weed supply price does your room cost to build?


----------



## pcduck

> (Am I allowed to post links like this at least) ?



No.... they frown upon posting of any outside links..Just change the tt in http to XX or else a mod will do it


----------



## BioDynamic

zem said:
			
		

> if your goal is research, then i suggest you do this with some laboratory help and some funding with some legal plants where you can really make a difference to the agricultural world. you're most probably wasting your money and effort, many researchers are already way ahead of you and get funded by the state, you can go work along with them and catch up from where they got, thats at least my opinion.





Lol. Sir, you have no idea. University of Calgary , my main title career, lifes work, is  RESEARCH AND DEVELOPMENT.   It is the only true ubiquitous science. 

It's very hard to explain what exactly I am studying for majors and ALL of my theses.  However, ...there is so much going on right now, that I won't be doing my own work exactly rather the work of others ..because ..electricity, and magnetism, elctic and magnetic fields, ultrasonic stimulation of plant growth, intermittent light or pulsed light, all those thing i named off before, ..  plus many other weird and new techniques are all underway.   And I'm on my way to becoming a part of it. However, ...my own research, ...I don't think i exactly am doing any. Except, at hoem grows but im just merely experimenting with things that are already known ...I AM BEHIND. With everything i do I am far behind, I know certain techniques that are just insane ...Like using Lasers Red and Blue (BLUE LIGHT IS VERY VERY VERY UNIQUE AMONG ALL OTHERS) ..especially Blue Lasers. ... There ..I think it'll take me a month or so, but I should make a thread dedicated to all the weird techniques that are underway.  Certain technologies, etc.

I am going to school for research and development, ...but everything I am doing, is the work of those before me. There is no credit for me to achieve except maybe do it better someday. But i am rather limited in new technology compared to research institutes ...so.


----------



## nouvellechef

My hats off to you sir. Moving plants that size late in flower daily, in and out of grow room is amazing. Cant even imagine, at 4-6oz per plant moving them around daily. I prob smoke to much and am lazy though.


----------



## BioDynamic

zem said:
			
		

> :yeahthat: and just how many lifetimes of weed supply price does your room cost to build?






Very good qquestion.  But first I should mention that I can almost create anything out of anything.   Like right now I am turning my 52 inch big screen into a little secret grow space, ... or for comparison you ever see those stoners in movies that can make a bong out of absolutely almost anything

I use innovation like that.  If I live in a place that doens't have a right sized closet, I can make a 'room'  inside a room ...many ways and relatively cheap. 

I've made so many different kinds of aeroponic systems using, almost everything.  It's not hard to make aeroponic set up using JUST POP BOTTLES. (everyone thinks you need high pressure pumps and stuff, but no you really don't).

If I want to make a room in a room I either go to home depot and buy some really cheap thin boards they have many sizes big and small, some cheap corner beads, ..you can really decide to use any materials you want, wood can come from anywhere in my town for free, and ..you can even use drywall and even create a really secret hidden room type chamber, of ganja. I haven't attempted it yet, as it's more appropriate for a owned home. I even took training in drywalling, taping, and mudding, just for that purpose at MOJO drywall.  At the time i could even get drywall for free. 
If not, it's really not hard to come up with ideas. 

a box or 2 or 3 that big screen tv's come in, can be transformed and re-inforced to create a nice little grow op room.   Although eventually, ..sometimes I need to use a room, with at least 7 foot ceiling and some major space. I have a beautiful walk in closet now  6 feet by 7 feet by 8 feet, perfect for to giant beauties.

I used big screen tv boxes before, and re-inforced it with 20$ worth of board, ..and I bought enough mylar for 10$ to cover the whole inside including the bottom ... when i use all my lights like say i use my 6 3oowatt CFL's, ..I bought 3 socket 2 ays splitter so i only need three socket, to hold 6 bulbs, i use cheap lamps i don't do any wiring I dont  fu** with electricity, never no way not one bit nuh uhh, nooope, nadda, nil, zip zilch, zero, bye.   


products are pretty cheap for the most part, ...and methods i try to use as much as a self sustaining methodology as possible. Home-made things, set-ups, gadgets and gizmos,...


etc etc etc

But over all I find most of this stuff and the best prices in the market.

Lights probably cost the most ...But as for the products list, ...some of it is Cheap, and a couple of the things are expensive.  VOodoo Juice is almsot 150$ for 500ml ... Sensizym is 40-50, same ith Organic B. Nirvaana is 35$, ...azomite I can get 5$ 1kg + delivery  or like 60$ for 44lbs....

The stuff Like TRIACONTANOL, BRASSINOLIDE, GIBBERILLIC ACID, IAA IBA NAA, ...And the like, I can get them all very very cheap ... all of them for 30$ ...fulvic acid is about 40$, humic acid is about the same, ...  

Crystals like the quartz and amythest i use for mainly the same reasons some people leave stones in theres, ..except I use crystals. So no need for anyoen to try these unless you believe in soemthing.  They have very unique properties when it comes to interaction with forms of energy. I'm not claiming anything on yield or any enhancements from it, i just use it to help soil structure. Instead of pebbles.  However, I will be trying out powedered crystal, or crystal dust, sometime, just not with these plants, ...I'll go buy some pansies or marigolds and grow a couple and try it out to see. 


Kelp and Seaweed extracts, or bundles are all fairly cheap as well


Mycorrhizal fungi with water polymers coems together i can get for like 5$ for 3oz ...water polymers a re a very good safe guard. Can save your *** sometimes that's for sure.

again most of these products last for 3-4 grow operations, since i have such a variety, ...other products last for a couple years  (TRIA,BRS<IAA<IBA<NAA, )

Chitalin O. ...I get for cheap ...14$


etc etc etc


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> My hats off to you sir. Moving plants that size late in flower daily, in and out of grow room is amazing. Cant even imagine, at 4-6oz per plant moving them around daily. I prob smoke to much and am lazy though.




haha ...it definitely is not easy, ...Garbage pails filled with like 30 pounds of dirt, plus the plant, and when it's wet soil I Won't even attempt.  I Need help when I move them It's not a one person task at all once in the bins or garbage pails, and the ScrOG attached, ... thank GxD for whoever invented patio doors easy to take off. (minus any burglary attempts)


----------



## BioDynamic

PUFF MONKEY said:
			
		

> wow....i think i'll just clone a few more to make up for the yield difference and stick to my GH 3 part for now...





Lol, it's a lot easier than it sounds believe me. And ,... so much fun. And it leads to nothing but better understandings, of everything. You really get to learn, ...not just do another somthing.


----------



## Growdude

That big plant looks nice but IMO its no way to grow efficiently, 6-7 month vegg time then 2-3 month flower, thats 8-10 month turnaround , I can complete 3 harvests in that amount of time. 

Needing help to haul plants in and out every day?.. no thanks.


----------



## BioDynamic

I Don't need to grow that long, ...I just do.  It's perhaps the only, as you said, part of my game that is costly.  ...  And isn't always that long.  But regardless of the length of time(as long as not too short), ...i can grow in one op what you can grow in 3 ....and with only 4 plants or less.  I never have more than 4. How many do you have?

And it doesn't need to be everyday like I said.  But the more the better obviously. A lot fo time and patience involved but ...not hard work at all. I love it I live it. Passion

But growing just isn't a hobby of mine, it is also a study. Agriculture is the biggest business in the world. And, modern Agr. is very primitive, ...and a lot of change is coming. All this time and steadiness, attention to detail, and different combinations of many different variables, ...I truly learn in my garden, ...I don't just grow. I am preparing for a  career in research and development. And this is a very big part of what I'll be doing. Kind of like at home school.

However, I could start my grow up a couple months after january and get almost the same results, but I love starting up on my Birthday, and I love taking care of plants it's almost like a child dont do it if you are not going to do it right and patiently. May be stupid but plants just aren't plants to me. They are the very reason why we exist in the first place. The key to all life in the universe is Biochemistry. The key to all life on earth is Autotrophic plants.

I like growing them big, I like getting to know them. Each and every strain. (lol) And I do not like re-starting operations so many times a year, one year one op. Almost all my methods are self sustaining, or very inexpensive ...So I guess it balances it.


And my friends want to help. This is more than just some closet scene for us. Marijuana isn't my future, but all of this is. And the stuff that we grow goes for quite a bit in the country beside me.

And we get together, and they help me out I sometimes need more than 2 hands and arms for many things.... holding branches, or lifting, helping me measure... etc etc

I measure sugar content , chlorophyll content, I use a lamotte professional soil test kit, and Lamotte humus  kit,  moisture, light, pH, ORP, EC/TDS, Co2 levels,  ....I am in the middle of buying a new meter that measures the ...well in a nutshell it measure the *'activity, of the stomata*. !! how cool is that. I might even be forgetting about something...

I spend lots of time , probably more than mostly anyone. I love it. And it is so worth it on so many levels regardless of price. I'd pay the costs anyday

Everything so meticulous and highly-wrought


----------



## surreptitious

if you are moving plants outside and then inside every day why dont you just grow in a greenhouse?


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

JBonez said:
			
		

> Co2, hmm... good question.
> 
> From an analytical point of view,
> 
> unless you are going to increase lumens per square foot,
> increase nutrient regimen/maintenance, control humidity so you can run higher temps, then id say dont waster your time.
> 
> Unless your grow is completely sealed tho, you are gonna have a rough time keeping things consistent.
> 
> jmo mang.


how many lpf we talkin' ? i'm already at 300,000 lumens over a 5x9 area..and i'll surely feed em' to the max...already got a fix for the humidity...lids...


----------



## BBFan

It's not only lumens Puff Monkey- temperature is also critical when adding CO2.

Maximum photosynthesis peaks at about 88 degrees with a CO2 rate of 1500ppm.

But I agree with JBonez- you must find the limiting factor in your grow- otherwise everything else you do is for naught.


----------



## BioDynamic

surreptitious said:
			
		

> if you are moving plants outside and then inside every day why dont you just grow in a greenhouse?





Someday I hope to. However, ...I live in the biggest dope growing community in Ontario.  Crop robbing is a big thing around here. Greenhouses raise suspicion, and attracts major attention. (not many greenhouses around here)

It's also one of those everyone knows everyone type of locations. Word travels faster than sound around here.     <(o.0)>

Indoors I have an alarm. Plus I can hear anything. And plus, my grow is always hidden very very well indoors IN a HOUSE. not as easy in a greenhouse. Like my secret little Big screen TV grow 'box' might look a little weird sittin out there, lol, ...Nowhere to hide in case of unexpected guests.


----------



## BioDynamic

Oh yes, I also forgot to list that I also use *Polyamines, *as well*.

*I am a big fan of *re-generation* which is something I do every so often.  When I do this, my 2nd harvest only takes a couple months, and my yield is even larger than the first.  However, sometimes I fail at this, and end up with hermy's, or just lower yield. *

But *quite often it's a beautiful technique. One year, 2 giant harvests, Only one start.


----------



## legalize_freedom

I agree that Bio's way is not the most efficient ....but hey if it's what he likes then who am I to judge...there are many ways to build a house, as long as the end product passes inspection, who cares if someone does it a certain way.  Thats the beauty of growing, to each his own.  I'm certainly not going to start growing 6 ft plants, long veg etc....but theres nothing wrong with someone doin it.  There is no wrong way, unless your plants are dieing.


----------



## moaky

wow.....
anyways.....
if your gonna use co2 and money isnt a option and you have a climate control what is the best way and easiest way?  with a regulator?  or a generator?
the generator gives off heat from the propane and humidity right?


----------



## 420grower

if temps are a problem,I say meter it thru a good climate control unit,in this day you can't go wrong if you can afford it,my room 9x6x7 cost me around 1800.00 money well spent,almost grows itself,temps,humidity,exhaust,intake,co2,all units run from one box.have fun with it,if money is no object you can grwo great today


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

i'd go with the reg setup....pure Co2 and nothing else


----------



## moaky

420grower said:
			
		

> if temps are a problem,I say meter it thru a good climate control unit,in this day you can't go wrong if you can afford it,my room 9x6x7 cost me around 1800.00 money well spent,almost grows itself,temps,humidity,exhaust,intake,co2,all units run from one box.have fun with it,if money is no object you can grwo great today



yeah i got  all that except the co2. just wondering about the co2.
thank you for the help

PUFF MONKEY	i'd go with the reg setup....pure Co2 and nothing else

thats what i thought  thanks for the help


----------



## nouvellechef

Wondering how those total controllers work. If I already have De-humid, AC, CO2. Do they all just plug into the controller and it turns on the unit when it falls below the specified level?


----------



## PUFF MONKEY

yep


----------



## nouvellechef

Lol. Almost all new ac, de-humid are digital. So what is the point of a $700 controller?


----------



## Kupunakane

Yo Friends,

   I know that you guys are getting sorta caught up in the idea of using Carbon Dioxide, and some of you have gone on to say, that you will go 100% C02. Well, I'm here to tell you that you babies will most likely die off, or produce much less than what your putting into them.      

Here is why, Should you go 100% carbon dioxide then where is the healthy supply of oxygen that the plant also needs ? Do you think it will off gas enough oxygen for herself to grow with ?
 I don't think so.

 Some of you might even be thinking I am off my rocker to even suggest that a plant needs oxygen to grow right? So let's ask the question; "Does a plant need oxygen to grow ? the answer is;
  YES!!! they perform cellular respiration too,  to get energy for themselves!  therefore they need oxygen in the last step on cellular respiration to form ATPs.


smoke in peace
much love
KK


----------



## nouvellechef

Jman, thoughts? Or Bio.


----------



## BBFan

KingKahuuna said:
			
		

> Yo Friends,
> 
> I know that you guys are getting sorta caught up in the idea of using Carbon Dioxide, and some of you have gone on to say, that you will go 100% C02. Well, I'm here to tell you that you babies will most likely die off, or produce much less than what your putting into them.
> 
> Here is why, Should you go 100% carbon dioxide then where is the healthy supply of oxygen that the plant also needs ? Do you think it will off gas enough oxygen for herself to grow with ?
> I don't think so.
> 
> Some of you might even be thinking I am off my rocker to even suggest that a plant needs oxygen to grow right? So let's ask the question; "Does a plant need oxygen to grow ? the answer is;
> YES!!! they perform cellular respiration too, to get energy for themselves! therefore they need oxygen in the last step on cellular respiration to form ATPs.
> 
> 
> smoke in peace
> much love
> KK


 
Good points KK-

But, isn't respiration a light independent function? Certainly in flower it's a non-issue, because you wouldn't be giving co2 to plants while they're in the dark- which leaves plenty of time for the Calvin Cycle.

However, during veg it's a different matter I guess. Though much is said about maintaining 1500 ppm's, I've actually been reading alot about keeping the ppm's between 700 to 1000 ppms. (I think it would be nearly impossible, except perhaps in a vacuum, to achieve a 100% concentration).  There should still be plenty of o2 left over for the final processing of carbohydrates, wouldn't you think?


----------



## BioDynamic

BBFan said:
			
		

> Good points KK-
> 
> But, isn't respiration a light independent function? Certainly in flower it's a non-issue, because you wouldn't be giving co2 to plants while they're in the dark- which leaves plenty of time for the Calvin Cycle.
> 
> However, during veg it's a different matter I guess. Though much is said about maintaining 1500 ppm's, I've actually been reading alot about keeping the ppm's between 700 to 1000 ppms. (I think it would be nearly impossible, except perhaps in a vacuum, to achieve a 100% concentration).  There should still be plenty of o2 left over for the final processing of carbohydrates, wouldn't you think?




Wasn't I told earlier on, (and argued with), I believe it was on this thread about co2 ...that my production of Co2 beginning at 700ppm while they were babies, and raising it as they get older to a max of 1400ppm was a waste of time. I do not cross this line I said because one grow at 2000ppm my plants died, ...and someone was arguing with me saying that 700-1500ppm was too low to see any results, and they were saying my  the reason I had such low levels, was because I had made home-made set ups, but I was purposely controlling and keeping them at that range, and ... SO...

Leads to my question... 

What has everyone else experienced? WHat echelon of ppm, or what ranges, has everyone had success and failure with?  

I'm sure every strain has slightly different genetics for this but on a general basis, ...Although it might be tricky to explain I know, because temperature, humidity, amount/intensity/type of light technology, among others, all have their say in the carbon fixation process, but again on a general level ...  Where has ppm began to mean failure in your experiences?


----------



## BioDynamic

KingKahuuna said:
			
		

> Yo Friends,
> 
> I know that you guys are getting sorta caught up in the idea of using Carbon Dioxide, and some of you have gone on to say, that you will go 100% C02. Well, I'm here to tell you that you babies will most likely die off, or produce much less than what your putting into them.
> 
> Here is why, Should you go 100% carbon dioxide then where is the healthy supply of oxygen that the plant also needs ? Do you think it will off gas enough oxygen for herself to grow with ?
> I don't think so.
> 
> Some of you might even be thinking I am off my rocker to even suggest that a plant needs oxygen to grow right? So let's ask the question; "Does a plant need oxygen to grow ? the answer is;
> YES!!! they perform cellular respiration too,  to get energy for themselves!  therefore they need oxygen in the last step on cellular respiration to form ATPs.
> 
> 
> smoke in peace
> much love
> KK





*100% Co2 is absolutely crazy. If you were to even enter such a room, YOU WOULD PASS OUT AND DIE!!!  *

Marijuana may have one of the highest carbon fixation rates in the world, but 100% Co2 levels would be 101% toxic.


Some people claim success with ppm levels of 2000ppm or above. I experienced death with it, and it was definitely a Co2 problem. 

Perhaps specific adjustments in the room could have made 2000ppm, ...more beneficial however?  

But my opinion would (because of the only success I've had) be the best levels are 1000-2000ppm respectfully. Less at an earlier stage of growth. What does everything else think?




And yes, the green of the plant 'eats' co2, while the roots 'eat' as much oxygen as possible. Oxygen created by plants obviously comes from the water while the oxygen in the CO2 gets incorporated in the carbohydrates created by the plants.  


But if 2000ppm or above can be beneficial, ..what does it take (exactly-ish) in the rest of the room to make it so???


----------



## moaky

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Lol. Almost all new ac, de-humid are digital. So what is the point of a $700 controller?


if you have a co2 regulator going on just a timer when lights are on then your wasteing co2.  when your exhaust turns on your co2 is sucked right out of the room. thats what my $300 controller does. turns my co2 off when the fans turn on.


----------



## monkeybusiness

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Here's a grow from 4 years ago.
> 
> 
> And I started shock treatment on one plant out of my 2, started almost a week ago.  And you can without a doubt tell which one I have been shocking. Leaves are already twice the size, than the untreated.  I need a digi camera.


 Is that an HID light in the picture?


----------



## moaky

BBFan said:
			
		

> It's not only lumens Puff Monkey- temperature is also critical when adding CO2.
> 
> Maximum photosynthesis peaks at about 88 degrees with a CO2 rate of 1500ppm.
> 
> But I agree with JBonez- you must find the limiting factor in your grow- otherwise everything else you do is for naught.


 so during flower would you keep your temps that high.  i thought it would stress the plants out.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

moaky said:
			
		

> so during flower would you keep your temps that high.  i thought it would stress the plants out.



You need elevated temps for enhanced CO2 levels to be utilized.


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> Is that an HID light in the picture?




Quite.


----------



## monkeybusiness

Interesting. You said you got these results under a combination of florescent, led and incandescent lighting with no HID's used. I don't see any florescent, led or incandescent lights in your picture, Just an HID..



			
				BioDynamic said:
			
		

> .. but like I said, I Don't use HID's and i average 2-3 pounds per plant.


 I truly hope and encourage you to do a grow journal and document the process for getting 2-3 lbs per plant w/out an HID because i still haven't seen evidence that it can be done.


----------



## nouvellechef

Ok so, yes or no is the consensus. You can or cannot run just a CO2 generator at 1500ppm?


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> Interesting. You said you got these results under a combination of florescent, led and incandescent lighting with no HID's used. I don't see any florescent, led or incandescent lights in your picture, Just an HID..
> 
> 
> I truly hope and encourage you to do a grow journal and document the process for getting 2-3 lbs per plant w/out an HID because i still haven't seen evidence that it can be done.






I also stated that* I used to use* HID's.  2006 I still wasn't using LED's as the technology wasn't like it is today. I didn't say that picture had to do with any of my newest techniques,  I said that picture was to state that large yields have been around for years. Stop referencing the picture. 



I crossed over to LED's and CFL's in 2008. 

And though I have never documented any grow, I have changed or added other techniques that provide much better yields than if I was just using simple methods.

For one, my ingredients list is phenomenal. Most products I use to feed my soil and plants are second to none. Best of the best, and the variety of different types of stuff I use is quite large in itself. ( I gave a list earlier in this thread of some* of the things I use.

And ever since I switched from HID's to my other lights,  I use *ScrOG*.  This method alone nearly doubles my yield compared to if I were not to use it. This method is a great companion when using something other than HID's. 

And incandescents, as I said, are used to stimulate the pr and pfr phytochrome response to help initiate flowering better, no for any sort of yield enhancement.


tml


----------



## monkeybusiness

Well i guess we are back to where we started then. 2-3 lbs under an HID is maybe possible, though unlikely and claiming the same can be done under a combination of florescent, led or incandescent lights is absolutely not believable.
 But i hope you prove me wrong!


----------



## nouvellechef

Were about to find out soon. 18 gal tote, DWC, Vertical 4k watts. I like Bio. He is a little snippy, but I like it none the less


----------



## monkeybusiness

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Were about to find out soon. 18 gal tote, DWC, Vertical 4k watts. I like Bio. He is a little snippy, but I like it none the less


Sweet nouvellechef! I'm looking forward to watching. The more i try to wrap my head around the idea of vertical lights and grows the more i'm digging it.  

And don't misunderstand, I'm here to learn and share. I love forward innovative thinking and I'd be one of the first to give it a go but I've never seen any evidence that it can be done. If it can, lets see it. Then way more people would be willing to listen and try it. You don't send the first man to the moon w/out a camera.  Just my opinion though..


----------



## nouvellechef

I have never used hoods as 09' was first year from outdoor. But some say I am stupid for not using hoods. But until they have tried it, I would not knock it. When that 1k bulb hangs 10" from plant, halfway down the plant. Those lower "popcorn" nugs, are not little. Maybe not top colas, but each lower branch on the AK's below, were very very heavy.


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> Well i guess we are back to where we started then. 2-3 lbs under an HID is maybe possible, though unlikely and claiming the same can be done under a combination of florescent, led or incandescent lights is absolutely not believable.
> But i hope you prove me wrong!





Oh, under HID it's very possible.  There is more of this situation, more than CFL's and LED's.  Keep  in mind I use 6 300 watt CFL's 2700k, plus some very very impressive LED fixtures, and I always throw in a couple small timers like full spectrum, 3300K bulbs, ......and I only grow 4 or less plants.  Most of the time only 2 or 3.


 And when combined with my ingredients list, and  ...ESPECIALLY ScrOG ...(((I do not believe I would be yielding high with CFL's and LED's if I did not use this method)))  ...I began this as soon as I switched my lighting, so I never did see how crappy yields can be with just a simple set up.


And to say it is impossible is, more or less, the unbelievable part. We can bend and tie light into knots, yield 100 pounds pumpkins and nearly 20lbs carrots, ... we can (I can make a list of endless things), ..but yielding a couple pounds of bud with CFL's , LED's ...all the right ingredients and techniques, ..is impossible?   That is what is absurd.   But still, you guys are right for not believing in just anything...  epistemological skepticism


----------



## zem

if you put so many cfl's and an A/C maybe you could pull it off but it would be crazy expensive and inefficient. if you pu 1kw cfl's/LED combination and 1kw HPS the HPS would be much better yield and less heat. get us some real pics for this CFL grow, all you gaveus was a plant under HID


----------



## monkeybusiness

I hope you understand with claims this far fetched it's not only hard to believe them, but hard to take your methods seriously. It just seems that if you could do something so magnificent and unbelievable that you'd want everyone to see it and learn how it's done. (you do seem like you want to teach your stuff). I've never heard of someone upgrading _from_ an HPS _to_ cfls. 

And how could you not want to show off such a feat? 2lbs w/out HID's?? 

 You can talk in all the circles you want but it just seems suspect to me.

 I for one would love to see it. Sounds like a crazy setup


----------



## legalize_freedom

I have upgraded from a 400w MH/HPS to a t5 floro in veg.  The 400w was overkill for my small space, and I thought it would be better utilized in the flower room.

I believe what Bio is saying is true, I have seen these huge pumkins and carrots, and really don't think it would be that hard to pull it off with good genetics.  I think however that we don't see it because it is not what most of us are going for.  Most of us are out to get the most amount of high grade pot out in the shortest amount of time.  Most of us are not going to do a 3 month veg.  

As far as the LED's go I think in a SCROG type set-up this could work to, we know that the LED's don't have the penetration power, but the technology is there with them now to be able to flower as long as you have an even canopy.  

Anyone can choose not to believe or to believe what each other is saying...it really doesn't matter.  I think we are wrong to knock any new ideas that are being put forth, if someone chooses not to believe or use them that is fine, but saying you don't think it's possable without ever trying these ideas is being very closed minded.  Not too long ago we had a memeber here who was going to do an experiment with LED's and thought he could pull off some amazing weights with them.  Unfortunately he got sick of being harrassed by people and left before we got to find out what ever became of these experiments.

Not long ago people were saying it wasn't right to grow with verticle lights...look whats happening with that now, we are seeing killer yeilds coming from these set-ups...so just because someone is trying new things, doesn't give me the right to judge them or ridecule them...of course I still have the right to believe them or not, and pics would make that a little more believable, but even pics can be decieving.

None of us would even be growing indoors if it weren't for people that think outside of the box.


----------



## legalize_freedom

Bio I have used the fermentation method with 2 liter bottles in a 4'x4' space and had 4 bottles brewing and saw no noticeable increase in yeilds.  I had no way to measure the amounts of c02 I was producing...but just running the 4 bottles was an xtra cost that I didn't need, also more time invested in replenishing the yeist and sugar every week.  I don't know that I would have had the space or time to make more of these.  This is what I have tried, and decided that my yeilds wer the same as if I was to just ventilate my space really well...bringing in c02 enriched air.  I'm not saying they didn't work either, I just found that it wasn't worth my time and money...definately not a good enough experiment to say that all homemade c02 contraptions are useless...just enough to proove to me that if I want to introduce c02 into my grow, I'm better off spending the money to get properly set up.  Otherwise I feel like it was a waste of my time.


----------



## nouvellechef

Agreed. LF. We just saw earlier in the thread a 19 day veg time and 9 week flower put out a a lb, from a single plant. Right genetics, mega watts (imo) and a green thumb. I am hopefull it can be done and documented.


----------



## BioDynamic

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Bio I have used the fermentation method with 2 liter bottles in a 4'x4' space and had 4 bottles brewing and saw no noticeable increase in yeilds.  I had no way to measure the amounts of c02 I was producing...but just running the 4 bottles was an xtra cost that I didn't need, also more time invested in replenishing the yeist and sugar every week.  I don't know that I would have had the space or time to make more of these.  This is what I have tried, and decided that my yeilds wer the same as if I was to just ventilate my space really well...bringing in c02 enriched air.  I'm not saying they didn't work either, I just found that it wasn't worth my time and money...definately not a good enough experiment to say that all homemade c02 contraptions are useless...just enough to proove to me that if I want to introduce c02 into my grow, I'm better off spending the money to get properly set up.  Otherwise I feel like it was a waste of my time.




The home-made devices aren't exactly the greatest thing. But, the main point is ...It doesnt matter if it is home-made, a generator, or, anything else, from anywhere...if it produces Co2, ....then it works, end of story.

Now, I never have more than 4 plants or large area, so a couple home-made dispensers aren't all that much of a big deal.  And the pop bottle ones, only last 3-7 days. 
However, if you take a 5 gallon pail add a couple pounds of sugar and the proper amount of yeast, ..make 2 or 3 of these, and it's a little different. Steady flow for quite some time.  Start the first one, then 4 days or so later start the next, then 4 days after that start the next.  Costs less than 20$, and it Does supply Co2 regardless. 
Sometimes once they all run out after a month or so, I don't even worry about it. Maybe even skip a month and add more co2 month after, it's really no big deal compared to the rest.

I don't really consider co2 to be a yield enhancer. It help plants grow faster, and larger in a shorter period of time, but in the end it's pretty much just adding to the overall of the plant not the yield alone.  

And I do not go all crazy if co2 levels are low, ...as long as  keep it above 700ppm.

Either way, any method of Co2 production works. As long as it produces co2, ...and having a meter can really tell you if it's working or not. And mine says they elevate co2.  For how long, is another story.


----------



## BioDynamic

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I have upgraded from a 400w MH/HPS to a t5 floro in veg.  The 400w was overkill for my small space, and I thought it would be better utilized in the flower room.
> 
> I believe what Bio is saying is true, I have seen these huge pumkins and carrots, and really don't think it would be that hard to pull it off with good genetics.  I think however that we don't see it because it is not what most of us are going for.  Most of us are out to get the most amount of high grade pot out in the shortest amount of time.  Most of us are not going to do a 3 month veg.
> 
> As far as the LED's go I think in a SCROG type set-up this could work to, we know that the LED's don't have the penetration power, but the technology is there with them now to be able to flower as long as you have an even canopy.
> 
> Anyone can choose not to believe or to believe what each other is saying...it really doesn't matter.  I think we are wrong to knock any new ideas that are being put forth, if someone chooses not to believe or use them that is fine, but saying you don't think it's possable without ever trying these ideas is being very closed minded.  Not too long ago we had a memeber here who was going to do an experiment with LED's and thought he could pull off some amazing weights with them.  Unfortunately he got sick of being harrassed by people and left before we got to find out what ever became of these experiments.
> 
> Not long ago people were saying it wasn't right to grow with verticle lights...look whats happening with that now, we are seeing killer yeilds coming from these set-ups...so just because someone is trying new things, doesn't give me the right to judge them or ridecule them...of course I still have the right to believe them or not, and pics would make that a little more believable, but even pics can be decieving.
> 
> None of us would even be growing indoors if it weren't for people that think outside of the box.





And for the whole canopy penetration thing, ...LED's can get passed all that. Yes, they say LED's cannot penetrate the canopy.  Which is probably mostly true, however ...LED's  can be placed anywhere in the grow room. I have an LED fixture below my plants on the ground shooting light upwards as well as some above (like the sun), ..and ....   

and ..there are these new designs, out as well.  Lights (LED's) that you can wrap around your plants.  Like X-mas tree lights. Providing light to any inch of your plant. Yes, grow lights in the design of x-mas lights. They have videos on youtube testing these products out. Oh yes, youtube has  videos of HID vs LED, and etc etc.


Three names of the new designs

LED Droplights
LED Canopy Lights
LED Stemlights  <<< I bought a couple of these to try (smaller versions)


Vertical lighting can be very beneficial. Actually, light going to places on the plant you're not used to seeing of course will be good.  My lights surround my plants from every angle. I EVEN have them set up underneathe shining light upwards.


----------



## BioDynamic

How long do most of you veg for???   3 months or less?   Because I go from January til Summer.   

*And as I stated before*, When I begin flowering, I don't just use my CFL's, ..My plants also get sunlight most days for many hours as I bring my set ups outside.  usually 1130am - 4-5pm

So I guess to say that I use only CFL's and LED's is a little understated.


----------



## jmansweed

In regards to this thread - the benefits of CO2 will only be seen clearly if maintained at levels above 1000 ppm for the entire flowering cycle in a 100% sealed environment. In my experiences home made buckets do very little specifically when not consistent or monitored in any way. You energy is better wasted in ventilation and not having CO2 as a priority. 

Home made mixes can indeed make CO2 - but insufficient amounts for our typical grow rooms. It simply is not an efficient way to apply CO2 for most of us.

Bio - you should really start a grow journal and let us follow. Reading through your posts here is down right confusing. Huge yields w/ different light programs and methods and so on. It's all very interesting but the info is trickling out in a way thats a little jumbled and hence, maybe a little suspicious? (I say that w/ all due respect) 

How about it?............I think you have some valid concepts.


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> I hope you understand with claims this far fetched it's not only hard to believe them, but hard to take your methods seriously. It just seems that if you could do something so magnificent and unbelievable that you'd want everyone to see it and learn how it's done. (you do seem like you want to teach your stuff). I've never heard of someone upgrading _from_ an HPS _to_ cfls.
> 
> And how could you not want to show off such a feat? 2lbs w/out HID's??
> 
> You can talk in all the circles you want but it just seems suspect to me.
> 
> I for one would love to see it. Sounds like a crazy setup






Well, I understand that to most of you guys the claims are far-fetched, because you've never seen_ (which i can understand)_ or haven't heard of _(which I don't understand)_.  I'm surprised you people have met nobody else with yields around a pound or so.  I've met many people!?    

Hard to take my methods seriously?  There's nothing wrong with the way I explain my methods, what's wrong is the fact that you do not believe in such great yields.

I use CFL's and LED's and sunlight, absolutely nothing wrong there...

My ingredients list is phenomonal. Take AZOMITE for example...  you want to increase yields? spend 20$, buy a 2 pound bag, ...use it on one plant and not on another .....and see the yield difference from just one simple product yourself. This one product alone will boost the yield of anyone's grow in this forum. You want even more yield, ..throw in the *ScrOG* method, ..you want even more? Use *TRIA* or *BRS* ...all the things I have listed, ...are far from unbelievable.   I just think you aren't grasping certain concepts.  

Putting the best methods/techniques with some of the best products on the planet and achieving a little more than usual.....There's nothing unreal about it.

You're in extreme denial, but again I don't blame you.

 But it's not like it is hard to find out for yourself.  You want me to prove it when any one of you can prove it yourselves.

Start out small. Buy some AZOMITE and do a test on one of your plants. Add ScrOG.  Add anything I've said, ...and then you will see for yourself. 

* (I suggest don't mess around with LED's  ..stick to your HID's!!!*  As LED's can complicate things if you don't kno what you are doing


----------



## nouvellechef

Grow journal, Bio. Cmon, one time. Were in Feb, your 4 plants should be coming along very nicely, I bet. Let us follow you, I for one, Jman and Legalize would follow it with open minds. Give us some pics of the set ups.


----------



## BioDynamic

jmansweed said:
			
		

> In regards to this thread - the benefits of CO2 will only be seen clearly if maintained at levels above 1000 ppm for the entire flowering cycle in a 100% sealed environment. In my experiences home made buckets do very little specifically when not consistent or monitored in any way. You energy is better wasted in ventilation and not having CO2 as a priority.
> 
> Home made mixes can indeed make CO2 - but insufficient amounts for our typical grow rooms. It simply is not an efficient way to apply CO2 for most of us.
> 
> Bio - you should really start a grow journal and let us follow. Reading through your posts here is down right confusing. Huge yields w/ different light programs and methods and so on. It's all very interesting but the info has trickling out in a way thats a little jumbled and hence, maybe a little suspicious? (I say that w/ all due respect)
> 
> How about it?............I think you have some valid concepts.




Yes, I noticed I am all over the place trying to fill in everyone's inquiry. And even my grow journal will be absolutely random.  I do not have feeding schedules, or lighting schedules, or... Everything in my op is random. I never feed the same meal 2wice, everyday is something completely different with lighting, ..everything.  People use the same meals and lighting schedules /same everything throughout the entire grow. 

Everyday is different for my plants. So, would I just write down what I do everyday?  That'll take me half a year ...





===============
That's why you absolutely need a Co2 meter when using any Co2 method.  I spent just over 200$ on mine, ..and I used it when i started out with simple home-made methods.  *ANYTHING PRODUCING CO2 WILL ELEVATE LEVELS, END OF STORY.  *

100% sealed environment is vital.  It's a matter of '_for how long_', that really makes the difference.  5 gallon pails (2-3) with enough sugar and yeast can produce quite the amount of co2 and last for some time. (20-30$ total spent a month). 

Now co2 is useless when ventilation and someone has to keep entering the room all the time, etc etc.  BUT I use LED's for vegging , ...and I can go 3-5 days without entering my room, and I never have to worry about anything, my soil is super nutritious, heat , and everything else isn't a worry.


All in All... I'd say all co2 methods CAN ALL BE THE SAME.  It makes no difference which way the co2 is produce, as long as the technician has the skills to capture and control it.  That being said, if you have the money, ..go ahead and blow it on fancy equipment. If you do not have the money or love making things and etc etc, then blow your time on the home-made ways.  Either way...  Co2 WILL BE PRODUCED, ..it'll just be up to you and your skills to make use out of it because even having a generator with steady constant supply can mean nothing, just like the pop-bottles, if other factors are in the way.

Im just saying, I have done home-made ways, and I have a co2 meter that told me how well they worked.  And they do.  Just not as easy ...


----------



## jmansweed

Bio, I'm very instinctive with my shedule also - and this gets explained with my methods in regards to a grow journal or any informative post really. In truth, applying things randomly does have a system. Plants have demands we all must meet and they expose those things in the chaotic world of nature that are consistent and predictable. With that in mind I think sharing your methods is less complicated than your implying. We all have common goals. It's more of a discussion than a description anyway - right? Thats how things seem to go here.


----------



## monkeybusiness

A single picture would solve this issue but one isn't being produce because it most likely isn't happening. Unicorns might exist too but most aren't going to believe such nonsense till they see it. Talk till your blue in the face about how you have one. Doesn't make it true. 
 No one would love to see a 2lb plant grown indoors under fluorescent and leds more than me but the reason we aren't seeing it is obvious..


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Grow journal, Bio. Cmon, one time. Were in Feb, your 4 plants should be coming along very nicely, I bet. Let us follow you, I for one, Jman and Legalize would follow it with open minds. Give us some pics of the set ups.




K, ...what does a journal all consist of??



And I HAD 4 growing... I mentioned earlier my gf went ballistic 2 weeks ago and destroyed everything.   put a hole in my wall ...and door......Dumped all my plants and pots onto the ground tipped and dumped everything, trashed everything, dumped all my products in the toilet and down the drain .......threw my LED's in the garbage........

 I managed to salvage 2 of my plants one was completely broken but I have it and it's somewhat alive.   The other one is doing sorta fine, but I no longer have products and am in the middle of ordering (waiting for 2 weeks now for money to go through to pay pal, then i have to order hten wait 3 more weeks)



I spent 490$ on 5 seeds  ...I only have 2 plants left, ..barely making it.   

Either way ...I'm doing this grow, and if they die , I'm getting more and I will document and take pics of everything. 

Would love nothing more than to make Monkey eat his own Business.


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> A single picture would solve this issue but one isn't being produce because it most likely isn't happening. Unicorns might exist too but most aren't going to believe such nonsense till they see it. Talk till your blue in the face about how you have one. Doesn't make it true.
> No one would love to see a 2lb plant grown indoors under fluorescent and leds more than me but the reason we aren't seeing it is obvious..





So... what?   Just because you haven't seen makes it untrue???  Think your reasoning is a little jaded.

Talk til your green in the face about how it *doesn't* exist, doesn't make you any more right than me.  

To say something doesn't exist seems more highly unlikely than saying something exists.


And the only thing obvious is I have no proof.  But to say that means it doesn't exist,.. really isn't all that logical.


*AND MONKEY .....FOR THE LAST TIME ........DURING FLOWERING ...MY PLANTS GET MUCH SUNLIGHT AS WELL...   OK, SO BEFORE YOU OPEN YOUR MOUTH ABOUT THIS AGAIN ............MAKE SURE YOU READ THIS PART AND STOP REFERENCING HIGH YIELDS TO JUST FLUORESCENTS AND LED's, or just one factor*

You're saying nothing but gibberish. I may sound like gibberish to those who have no idea what I am talking about. But, your logic is ....not doing so good.  I don't get high yields JUST because of ONE thing. I get it because of EVERYTHING.  All you keep doing is trying to reference high yields to one factor. And even when you do htat you are not even doing it right.  I SAID LED'S, CFL'S ANNNNDDDD SUUUUNNNNLIIIIGGGHHT ...........So why are you complaining that my lighting is not good enough to produce high yields????


----------



## jmansweed

Bio - go the main forum page - find "grow journals" and start a new thread there.

The discussion of your methods would not only be better suited for that but those actually interested in your methods can find the info easily. There's allot of non-CO2 related info on this CO2 thread - which is fine - but will be more available on a thread titled appropriately. 

I'm looking forward to it


----------



## monkeybusiness

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> So... what?   Just because you haven't seen makes it untrue???  Think your reasoning is a little jaded.
> 
> Talk til your green in the face about how it *doesn't* exist, doesn't make you any more right than me.
> 
> To say something doesn't exist seems more highly unlikely than saying something exists.
> 
> 
> And the only thing obvious is I have no proof.  But to say that means it doesn't exist,.. really isn't all that logical.


Talk in circles all you want dude. We both know it ain't happening. Show me a picture of this mobile scrog that you and your friends roll out into the sunlight everyday. Educate us w/ a step by step grow journal. 

Otherwise...


----------



## monkeybusiness

jmansweed said:
			
		

> Bio - go the main forum page - find "grow journals" and start a new thread there.
> 
> The discussion of your methods would not only be better suited for that but those actually interested in your methods can find the info easily. There's allot of non-CO2 related info on this CO2 thread - which is fine - but will be more available on a thread titled appropriately.
> 
> I'm looking forward to it


Darn fine point Jmansweed! My apologies for all the non co2 talk


----------



## BioDynamic

monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> Talk in circles all you want dude. We both know it ain't happening. Show me a picture of this mobile scrog that you and your friends roll out into the sunlight everyday. Educate us w/ a step by step grow journal.
> 
> Otherwise...





Ain't ??? 


Please don't tell me you think a mobile ScrOG doesn't exist ......  Tell me you have seen one of these.  

It's nothing more than a bin or garbage pail with  ScrOG  screen attached to it!?   If you have anything to say about something like that I'm just going to start ignoring you because you'd be a complete waste of time to chat with at that level of ignorance.


This isn't mine but you get the idea >  hXXp://hyperspaces.free.fr/culture/Techniques/SCROG,28.jpg


And I don't think anything like you. I did at one point. But I met people who yielded no different than what I do now. And they told me how. I was fascinated not a discriminator. 

I am not one for believing in many things, but to think a plant cannot produce a couple pounds of bud, ...you'd have to be a complete idiot.

And comparing a unicorn to a plant being able to produce large amounts of bud, ...I think you're a little off base there.

*
You seem to be coming up with more excuses than I am, for someone who has only been on one side of the fence*


----------



## monkeybusiness

BioDynamic said:
			
		

> I spent 490$ on 5 seeds  ...I only have 2 plants left, ..barely making it.
> 
> Either way ...I'm doing this grow, and if they die , I'm getting more and I will document and take pics of everything.
> 
> Would love nothing more than to make Monkey eat his own Business.


I hope you do prove me wrong, so lets move this to a grow journal. But as far as making me eat my own business, well.. 





			
				monkeybusiness said:
			
		

> Talk in circles all you want dude..





			
				BioDynamic said:
			
		

> Ain't ???
> 
> 
> Please don't tell me you think a mobile ScrOG doesn't exist ......  Tell me you have seen one of these.
> 
> It's nothing more than a bin or garbage pail with ScrOG screen attached to it!? If you have anything to say about something like that I'm just going to start ignoring you because you'd be a complete waste of time to chat with at that level of ignorance.
> 
> 
> This isn't mine but you get the idea >  hXXp://hyperspaces.free.fr/culture/Techniques/SCROG,28.jpg
> 
> 
> And I don't think anything like you. I did at one point. But I met people who yielded no different than what I do now. And they told me how. I was fascinated not a discriminator.
> 
> I am not one for believing in many things, but to think a plant cannot produce a couple pounds of bud, ...you'd have to be a complete idiot.
> 
> And comparing a unicorn to a plant being able to produce large amounts of bud, ...I think you're a little off base there.
> 
> *
> You seem to be coming up with more excuses than I am, for someone who has only been on one side of the fence*


----------



## nouvellechef

This thread has gone on long enough, end it Bio. Start a journal and keep it concise. I can tell you luv to type, so try and keep it like this in the journal so we can follow it.

Exact lighting specs inside
Exact soil mix
Nutrient schedule by day or whatever you feed it. Name and amount
ventilation set up and/or CO2 set up
Pest regime-never saw you mention it. 

Just list those followed by a picture. Check in every couple days or once a week and keep us updated with pics and changes to the regime. This is long overdue and could change the face of growing. Looking foward to it!! Thanx


----------



## BioDynamic

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> This thread has gone on long enough, end it Bio. Start a journal and keep it concise. I can tell you luv to type, so try and keep it like this in the journal so we can follow it.
> 
> Exact lighting specs inside
> Exact soil mix
> Nutrient schedule by day or whatever you feed it. Name and amount
> ventilation set up and/or CO2 set up
> Pest regime-never saw you mention it.
> 
> Just list those followed by a picture. Check in every couple days or once a week and keep us updated with pics and changes to the regime. This is long overdue and could change the face of growing. Looking foward to it!! Thanx




This thread is the only home I've ever known. I can't leave.  Not until it has 34 000 replies like that one thread I just seen.  

Jokes


And I will do a journal. I'll enjoy it. *How do I post pictures from my computer?* Do I have to upload it to one of those photo sites?

...However, I'm not starting it until I have all my stuff again. So, probably not for another 3 weeks, but that shouldn't mean anything. Right now I have them in nothing more than a cheap organic bag of dirt i had to buy quickly I just bought the first one I seen, I was in a rush to save the plants from total death.

However, there is one minor problem. I can no longer bring my plants outside as I have a new place, and I'm located in the inner city limits.
On the bright side of that note, ...I guess we will really get to see how well CFL's and LED's do completely by themselves. I think that's an even better idea and should go up on the records. 

Just remember when doubting and arguing my methods ...they include sunlight and indoor lighting, it's kind of a shaded area to conclude one thing as a source of high yield  (which are those people singling out only one detail, which is erroneous.) To say I get high yields just because of LED's or CFL's, is something you guys have said. Not me. You keep singling things out which is nonsensical and creates nothign but an argumentative paradox. 
I got the best of all indoor, with the best of outdoors (sunlight). Everyone knows it's even easier to get higher yields outdoors. I never said I got high yields because of one specific thing like you ppl keep implying. I understand bigotry. So, I don't blame anyone for not believing a word I say, ...what I do blame is for people not paying attention to wast I do write and speak before they think, and I blame myself for not explaining things 100% the best way I could have. But I'm sure I said more than enough , at least, ..for people to be smart enough to say my high yields are impossible by LEd's themselves , etc.  Pay attention, in the near future, and I'm going to do my best to conform to this place. I like it and its hard arse rules.  Sheesh. Convincing you guys is going to be harder than getting high yields ahaha.

And also, for the record, ...I never came in here preaching my methods were better than anyone elses. I never was prejudice to anything except the ignorance and information intolerance that was presented to me. I never once thought I was a big shot let alone trying to act like one?  I never said or implied anything to that sense. I thought nothing more than, I am far from professionall and wanted to come here looking to improve my methods from you people. People from forums a few years ago got me this far, and now ...high Yields are nothing to achieve. I thought I was entering into the same scenario.

You think high yields and unicornland are doppelgangers? High yields are from from fairyland now ladies and gentleman.  ...They are actually short of spectacular.   There's something else I am after. Far more multifarious, and complicated and ...IMPOSSIBLE than pounds per plant. 

What I want ... in my self-mastery in the garden, ...is to grow an entire grow -doesn't matter in size-, ...but, NOT HAVE ONE SINGLE YELLOW LEAF ever, NOT ONE LEAF EVER TO WILT, OR BURN, ...NOT ONE TIP TO CURL OR BEGIN TO DIE, ...NOT ONE SIGN to the human eye that there is any sort of deficiency or illness anywhere in or on any of my plants. Not one sign of chlorosis or necrosis, not one hole to form in any leaf ever, ....this is where It begin to cross from reality to unicornland.

Every garden I see, ...even in extreme professional gardens, .... there are too many (to me) dying leaves, to many signs. There is always a problem in every garden.  TO me, ...this is where I think, what you guys think of high yields. High yields are nothing,... and I think I'm going to do some searching for those certain people and see if I can bring them here to join. 


Bye bye dear sweet thread. *throws confetti*

See you all around the forum. And, ...really? over 34 000 replies on one thread? That's probably a read the length of one of my grows. This place is packed...

Any highly recommended threads???


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## nouvellechef

Dude, that's way too long for me to read. I am way to stoned right now to even comprehend it. Just follow my advice above and let's see some beastly plants. GL.


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## legalize_freedom

I'm glad you have decided to stay Bio....lol....that was some read!  I thought I was long winded...sheeeshh...just kiddin man.

I'm going to take you up on your suggestion to try Azomite...I'll let everyone know my results with it.  I know of at least one other member that was also going to try it, who isn't a rookie, so we'll see what this magic dust will do.  But if I start seeing unicorns...well...I'm smoking another bowl.

I'm looking forward to your journal Bio .....6 months a yr whatever it takes...we got nothing but time man.


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## PUFF MONKEY

i'm willing to bet that i can employ a co2 system in an open area(not air tight) and still reap 100% of the benefits...what do you want to put on it..lol..i may use a lot of co2 BUT, it can be done...all that is needed is the right amout surrounding the plants at any given time with enough light intensity...


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## BioDynamic

PUFF MONKEY said:
			
		

> i'm willing to bet that i can employ a co2 system in an open area(not air tight) and still reap 100% of the benefits...what do you want to put on it..lol..i may use a lot of co2 BUT, it can be done...all that is needed is the right amout surrounding the plants at any given time with enough light intensity...





I bet you can, and I bet once it's done, it's nothing but simple.


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## PUFF MONKEY

my thoughts as well though it may not be economically sound, in theory (or fact) it will do it's job...so with that said, i ask Bio how much light is needed in a 5x9 square foot area ? i'm here to learn so teach away...


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## PUFF MONKEY

i ask anyone the same question as well.


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## PUFF MONKEY

i also have a full O2 bottle lol...what would you do with it ?


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## PUFF MONKEY

not welding O2 either...person O2 lol.


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## BioDynamic

What are you talking about?  What do you mean NOW my plants are dead?

 I mentioned about a week ago that my gf had destroyed everything. I said that. Yes, I did. She destroyed everything when they were only a week old.  I mentioned this before, a few days after it happened.  There are only 2 left, .well 1 and 1/2 now, ...and I have no products, I gave my friend 285$ to order more stuff for me off the net and that was 2 fridays ago, ...and apparently it hasn't gone from the bank to pay pal, ..so I have to wait another 3 weeks before delivery.  
I ordered a feminized 5 pack of Upstate for 490$, ...and I have pretty much only one left, ...and certain spots are already showing sign of deficiency.    This doesn't mean anything is over.  You think just because this happens I'm not continuing the grow or journal for proof?  NO.   But I can't do anything til I have products.  

I bought a cheap bag of organic dirt, which i now see is infested with fungus gnats, and I re-planted them, one had a broken stem, and started drooping, so I put it in a quick home-made aeroponics thing took me 10 mins to make.  In a  couple days I may only have one plant.  


This doesn't mean I won't be doing my grow journal. So can you please stop insulting me with those messages whoever is sending them.


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## PUFF MONKEY

??????????????????????????????? i'm confused


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## BBFan

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I'm going to take you up on your suggestion to try Azomite...I'll let everyone know my results with it. I know of at least one other member that was also going to try it, who isn't a rookie, so we'll see what this magic dust will do. But if I start seeing unicorns...well...I'm smoking another bowl.


 
Hey LF-

Actually alot of peope have been using it.  It's part of Subcool's super soil recipe.


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## legalize_freedom

Oh really BB?  I guess i didn't realize that.  It's been awhile since I read up on the SS.  I'm looking forward to trying it non the less, just read up on the history of it and what not last night.  Will be ordering it soon.  Has anyone found the cheapest place to aquire it yet?

Bio if someone is bothering you with private messages there is an ignore button that you can choose to use.  I have not had to use it yet, but I have thought about it a couple of times.


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## pcduck

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey LF-
> 
> Actually alot of peope have been using it.  It's part of Subcool's super soil recipe.



:yeahthat:


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## nouvellechef

eBay. $9 for 5lb's I saw. Not sure about shipping. On there website it lists where you can get it by state.


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## legalize_freedom

I found 2 lbs for 5.95...and postal rates...I think 2 lbs is plenty to check it out on.  I got just the clone...I call her #3...she's the most productive of the 6, and I have 2 of her.


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## nouvellechef

Get er done LF. Assuming your gonna do a super soil outside this year? wait this thread is all outta whack.... 

On another topic, Bio, your GJ may be the most anticipated GJ on MJ passion since its inception, FYI. Cant wait.

I know Hick is excited....


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## legalize_freedom

I'm going to try out these free nutes from General Organics, but I want to build the best soil I can for them to, and then I'm going to run side by side with my FF/Humboldt Counties Own schedule...to see what works better for me.  But yeah I do plan on putting a few clones out and about again this year.  Maybe some Auto's to, if get some paychecks rolling again to be able to buy some seed.


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## screwdriver

PUFF MONKEY said:
			
		

> ??????????????????????????????? i'm confused


Your confused?  I'm confused.

Could you show off your "rig", describe it and update?  After 11 pages of.....?  I was really just interested in your stuff.


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## legalize_freedom

screwdriver....puff has an awesome grow room!  It can be found in the grow journals section.  I haven't visited him for awhile, so I'm not sure if he hooked up the c02 or not...but his room is top notch.


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## Locked

If these seeds existed i wld think the major breeders wld hve bought seeds and made crosses from them....and then all of us wld already hve said genetics...or is there a government conspiracy keeping that from happening?


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## ronnie77

Carbon Dioxide (CO2) levels should be high, particularly during the FLOWERING PHASE . Growth rates can be increased dramatically if the CO2 level is near 700 ppm. 300 ppm (Outside Air) 700 ppm (Ideal) 2000 ppm (Plants Burn) 5000 ppm (Death) CO2 is cheaply produced by burning Natural Gas. However, heat and Carbon Monoxide must be vented to the outside air. CO2 can be obtained by buying or leasing cylinders from local welding supply houses. Beware! The DEA has asked the supply houses to provide lists of large CO2 users. If you are questioned, simply say "I have an old mig welder at the house and I want to try and patch up my (Lawnmower, car, trailer, etc.). If you find that you are making lots of trips to the supply house, complain that your "buddy" keeps leaving the cylinder valve open all night. This should provide a plausible excuse.


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