# Anyone using the full bio-canna range ?



## saycheese (Jan 5, 2009)

i am using full bio canna in bio terra 


my problem is thus-

yellowing from bottom up 
i am considering this as normal in third wk of flower, leaves curling and dropping not burning- still moist when they drop no crispy ends
affects the bottom third

lots of clawing round middle
leaves are a normal green not dark but wrapping up like little runner beans


after 6weeks in the bioterra im pretty sure they used all the available nitrogen etc i top dressed with guano (8-0-0) one half teaspoon per plant one w.eek before the switchover to 12/12 they didnt go dark green and they continued to slowly yellow.

for this reason i dont think its nitrogen toxicity

ive been very careful with bloom and boost using less than is recommended, even on a chart written for the plants im growing specifically.

for this reason i dont think its flowering ferts overdose

the worst affected plant the soil is a bit acid, i tested it at 5.5

TRYING TO AVOID ANY KIND OF FLUSHING 

the biocanna soil im using reckons its ph buffered with ferts the feed i give is usually around ph7 but i switched to plain water which is higher.

my grow shop did stress not to ph in this dirt i am really stumped

HELP!!! anyone with time to help me i would much appreciate it, maybe someone whos using this same nute range as i cant find posts by many who are.


1 by 1 by 2 tent

400w digital hps with super lumen switch pressed, 125w ecolight bloom.

passive intake, exhaust 4" rvk 

bio-canna soil. bio-flores. bio-boost. bio-rhizotonic. superthrive

temps- highest temp reaches 30 degrees usually a little less

tap water, stood for at least two days. 


=
THANKS AGAIN in advance to anyone who can help out.


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## saycheese (Jan 6, 2009)

i am begging for a response from anyone, especially someone who has used these nutrients successfully as im a first timer with this

HOW SHOULD I (IF AT ALL) ALTER PH WHEN FEEDING INTO ORGANIC SOIL???

i was altering it to 7 during veg with hydro ph down cos my sink water is ph8
could this have lowered the ph of my soil? 
or perhaps left salts,
 i think i read that in lowering ph with hydro ph down the molecules attatch in a way forming salts?

first week the seedlings showed ph probs (warping leaves, stunted) from ph7.4 from bottle. and i put em in HOT soil not knowin any better! 

IM AT A CRUCIAL STAGE PLEASE HELP ME OUT 
-I REALLY HAVE READ AND DIGESTED AS MUCH AS I CAN AND CANNOT FIND THE SPECIFIC ANSWERS IM NOT JUST BEING LAZY

(apart from being too lazy to flush four gal thru each pot)

thankyou.


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## andy52 (Jan 6, 2009)

1st off your ph is too high at 7.0. you need to adjust your water and nute solution before watering and feeding.i would keep the ph at between 6.5-6.8
  if you are having problems i would flush the soil good.then get your ph back on track.i have never used this type soil tho.i used ffof soil for all my soil grows.


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## pcduck (Jan 6, 2009)

Flush and get your ph where it should. for soil it is between 6.5-6.8...5.5 is way to low for soil, the acid is burning them up


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## saycheese (Jan 7, 2009)

I got some garden lime.........?

shall i use it.

was thinkin a sprinkle scratched into the top of soil might help.

i noticed after my last watering at tap water ph (8.0) they clawed and cigar/canoed more making me more sure that the symptoms are of a ph/lockout problem. also noticing stunted growth across the board since.

i watered with bloom fert 6ml in 5litres and boost 8ml in 5litres the time before last. this is less than 50% strength i think and  all previous feedings were weaker

nobody knows i have ten ladies staying over... they cant all take a bath!


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## pcduck (Jan 7, 2009)

saycheese said:
			
		

> I got some garden lime.........?




What type is your lime Dolomite or hydrated?
Hydrated is a real fast action and hot.


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## Rockster (Jan 7, 2009)

Don't panic pcduck,

 could you tell us your feeding regime.ie,are you only feeding the flores now?

 Sounds like you might have to add a little of the veg nutes to supplement nitrogen as they sound underfed.I've got a mate using canna bio and he has the same problem so added some grow and job sorted.

I use Bio Bizz and that has the same problem,inadequate N in the bloom mixture so its standard practice to continue feeding a small amount of grow with your bloom and just watch the leaf colour,if they darken quickly just back off the grow

Don't bother about adjusting ph with compost,its totally unneeded usually as the compost will buffer it into the range for you unless you have very high tapwater ph and yours is a tad high so make some up and measure and if its not higher than 7.5 you are fine.Ph adjustment is for hydro only as is flushing.

So many people say yellowing of leaves is normal in mid flower,na,it just shows you've underfed your girls and the plant yellows low down as it does something called 'translocation' which is the movement of soluble salts from the lower to the higher portions of the plant in order to save the terminal bud,its a survival mechanism which shows you visibly that the plant is stressed.

In a good grow where the gardener reads the plants requirements you can have a plant in full flower and its tip to toe green and lush and may only lose a few fan leaves as it gets fully mature and this is genetic,it doesnt happen(yellowing)with all strains.

So could you come back this way with your feeding regime please mate and also,do you operate a good wet and dry cycle?
By this I mean do you water your plants till saturated and then not rewater till at least 80% of previously given water has been taken up as this a very important thing to do as it draws fresh gases into the compost and keeps it oxygenated.

The curling or clawing does sound like your growing medium is waterlogged.


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## pcduck (Jan 7, 2009)

Rockster said:
			
		

> Don't panic pcduck,



Not my grow so I am in no panic.

*saycheese* Here is a feeding schedule link change the _xx_ to _tt_
hxxp://www.progressive-growth.com/hydroponic_recipe-Bio-Canna.php


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## Tater (Jan 7, 2009)

Wow nice post rockster.   Only thing I can think to add is asking what are you using to test your ph and how are you testing your ph?  Do you water the plant and test the run off or are you using one of those soil ph meter things from walmart.  If you do test the runoff are you using litmus paper or a digital meter?


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## Rockster (Jan 8, 2009)

Aw'right Tater,

 I don't Ph test at all apart from checking my tapwater occasionally and as thats usually around 7.3 so I don't need to adjust.

I've Ph adjusted in the past and now just don't bother as the compost buffers it into the right range and am sure if I measured my runoff it would be in the 6.5 or thereabouts ballpark so why add phosphoric acid?

Ph and ppm is hydro's worry and I use cheapo compost with Bio Bizz which is an excellent organic plant food although you have to add a touch of grow to the bloom mix to keep em an even green all over and also give one shot of magnesium salts which you get from any chemist for about a pound,as organic magnesium is difficult to get into a liquid feed formulation in adequate amounts.

It's simple and it works time after time and I'm approaching 2 weeks flowering and ALL my fan leaves are intact and the whole plants are the same colour tip to toe,so theres me setting myself up for a fall as my diary here will either back up my words or shoot me down ha ha!


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## Berttieboo (Jan 8, 2009)

Rockster said:
			
		

> Aw'right Tater,
> 
> I don't Ph test at all apart from checking my tapwater occasionally and as thats usually around 7.3 so I don't need to adjust.
> 
> ...


No way man, tap water ph varies where you are.Ph is very important even in soil.Yes hydro needs more accurate ph adjustment but to just not ph test(especialy when a plant appears to have lockout)is murder.Why not just water with vinegar.


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## Rockster (Jan 8, 2009)

It doesnt actually vary much at all where I am.

7.1- 7.4 is fine and its never been out of that range so I don't bother as I don't need to!

So yes way man! 

My plants never exhibit deficiencies,certainly not from nute lockout,so ph dosnt even come into it. They ask for food and I feed em,job done!

 Keep it simple,if it aint broke don't fix it!


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## Berttieboo (Jan 8, 2009)

Im reffering to the original posters grow Rockster not your grow.Im not digging you,if youve figured your ph levels to be constantly withing required range then thats good, but if you read the original post it points to wrong ph/lockout so to advise not to test his/her ph is imo wrong.His water could be very different to yours.
Peace


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## Rockster (Jan 8, 2009)

Ok mate,no worries but his water and feed mix comes out at around ph7 so its right on the money although he says his pure water is a tad higher although thats to be expected so I don't really see a ph prroblem here to be honest but do agree you need to know initially if everything is in the right ballpark.


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## Berttieboo (Jan 8, 2009)

IMO ph 7 is still to high,I wouldnt water my plants with it.


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## Rockster (Jan 8, 2009)

Then we'll have to agree to disagree but his soil ph is quite acid (5.5)so adding feed at ph 7 is gonna buffer itself out just fine methinks but you could measure the runoff for additional peace of mind.

But hey ho,we need to find out actual quantities of of magnesium and calcium given as I do suspect thats the problem as excesses of those elements most certainly can cause the problems the plants are exhibiting.


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## pcduck (Jan 8, 2009)

ostpicsworthless:




			
				Rockster said:
			
		

> I don't Ph test at all apart from checking my tapwater occasionally and as thats usually around 7.3 so I don't need to adjust....
> 
> ...Ph and ppm is hydro's worry and I use cheapo compost with Bio Bizz



:rofl:


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## saycheese (Jan 9, 2009)

im about to peek into the room, they woke up an hour ago, im givin em time to apply some slap!


still cant think how 30% strength doses of fert have built up to a ph imbalance

i read the sphagnum peat moss in my soil blend has a tendancy to be/get acidic  ( i grabbed pearlite fer nex time)

next grow i will be using bio-terra (in the brown bag, organic, grow nutes fer four weeks)
but amending the mix with pearlite

does anyone know if its a good idea to add a little lime to this mix?
jus askin cos the soil is meant to buffer by itself, don wana overlime it

??-I am guessing that a 6.4 soil ph, if you watered at ph7 ,
the mixture would buffer down thru the range from 7 - 6.4
allowing nutes/minerals etc to be uptaken at there own optimum ph as it passes ( meaning some nutes get eaten better at say 6.8 and others at 6.4)

what if your soil was closer to ph7 and your water was 6.4 ?
would it buffer thru the range the opposite way?

if my soil is say ph5.5 is there any reason i cant just water with plain water ph7-ph8 and let this drag the ph up? ( apart from nutes being unavailable for uptake untill mix has buffered down in a feed mix, would just plain water at a high ph help? or just stress and warp leaves )

mebbe i need to do some reading bout gardning in general i have never been a gardener untill two month ago 

lets see if the lime dun anything.... could be a disaster....


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## saycheese (Jan 9, 2009)

AAAAAAAAAAAAGH

watering seemed not to go down well

dont ask why cos i was high i fed with-

(in 5litres)
2ml bio flores
bout half teaspoon blackstrap molasses
1drop superthrive

at ph7

1100ml of feed per 11litre pot. 
(this amount has me watering evry four days, it was three days in veg)

and i top dressed all with bat guano 8-1-1 (half teaspoon) cept the worst that got dolomite lime

the yellowing has crept up to the fan leaves near the buds and all plants exhibit a downward  curl on the leaves

(but not cigar shaped downwards rolled margins as was original problem, just down, not rolling up sideways like a cigar)

the lime i added to the worst affected plant may not  have hurt as the yellowing seems very slighty less severe on ths one .mebbe too early to tell

ANY IDEAS ANYONE?

i thought molasses might have screwed em but people seem to be using it at tablespoon per gal (3.8litre) i only put less than a dessertspoon in 10litres
(not sure wot anyone calls this spoon. the normal one you would eat frosties with)

could i possibly be UNDERfeeding? whenever ive added any feeds/products, i read up on whats added per GALLON so ive, at very most, added that amount to a 5litre bottle. cept possibly flores.

could a nitrogen deficiency during the 12/12 stretch have hurt me bad?

FEEL MY PAIN.my budsize has not seemed to increase for a week.i see the pod that ejects the trichome wanting to swell.


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## saycheese (Jan 10, 2009)

this thread is full of my rambling so ive come to a few conclusions -

veged in bioterra for 6 weeks (longer than the nutes in the soil last)

First feed after the 12/12 switch i gave flores 

this probably lead to the yellowing as the plants wanted an 'N' hit while they stretched

and possibly the acidity problem as the 'P' and wotever else accumulated unused in the soil

one of my pals waters evry 7 days, in the same size pots, same dirt, same strain under a stronger hps. i water evry 3-4 days. 

its possible that deep in the root ball has been too moist

anyone know if the plant can wilt if there is any moisture left deep within?

should i wait for full blown wilt a few times to make certain of a healthy WET/DRY cycle?


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## saycheese (Feb 3, 2011)

ok so im more in the know these days, most of my ramble above is simple stuff to me now but i still ph to 6.8. Im scared to stop doin it 
.
and as i want to pot up in 40percent perlite and water daily, to be more like hydro, i wonder if ph'ing is actually important??
.
How badly will ph down affect microlife? .
Can anyone point out any problems with this method im about to adopt?


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## Roddy (Feb 3, 2011)

pics of the leaves and the plant showing where the leaves are would truly help those who know. I am not one of those, but ask, are the leaves showing any brown spots on top and when you look at the leaves from below toward the light, do you see what looks like tiny holes?

seems we were posting together...doubt you'll be watering daily using any type of soil unless the plant is too ig for the container...and then maybe not still lol My understanding is that ph is important...period. Someone with more know, please feel free to correct me!


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## saycheese (Feb 3, 2011)

what im sayin is i want to get my soil mix just airy enuff so i can drench every morn at lights on and be almost dry by the same time next day, gettin more o2 into the rootzone than less frequent watering


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## saycheese (Feb 3, 2011)

note -the plants i first posted about were ash 3yrs ago.


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## maineharvest (Feb 5, 2011)

saycheese said:
			
		

> what im sayin is i want to get my soil mix just airy enuff so i can drench every morn at lights on and be almost dry by the same time next day, gettin more o2 into the rootzone than less frequent watering




That is called hydro my friend.  I believe its ebb and flo.  You might want to check out the hydro section.


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## saycheese (Feb 6, 2011)

aah but i want to keep my organic mix peatmoss guano etc and use bio nutes,
just more perlite and more frequent water.
Would this really make my setup a hydro setup?
I dont want to lean too far towards hydro, or use pumps or drippers.
.
I wil check the hydro section and c wot i can c.


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