# 1st grow few questions



## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

hi first time growing this year ive read a few books/posts but some of the information was inconsistent or didnt apply to my situation.

i germinated 9 seeds from an especially seedy bag of Northern lights(as far as i know) 8 made it out of those about 3 are noticeable larger than the rest.
*is this just genetics or something that i can change to help the runts catch up*. my set up isnt ideal but its all i can do at the moment. 



i have the sprouts in some small pots indoors on a window that gets good light during the day and the past few days ive been putting them outside to grab some sun as were having a bit of a heat wave i will be moving them outside when they are ready.* judging by pictures how long till i can safely plant out here? also are these pots too small, i see tiny ends of roots coming out the bottom not a lot just one or two on each would replanting them to bigger pots be worth it or just wait till i can put them outside? *
i was thinking of using the tomato grow bags though *i wonder if there will be drainage issues* 
also these bags are quite shallow *does cannabis need room for deep roots or would wide shallow roots do?
* the bags are about 3 feet long and a foot or 2 wide and about 5 inches deep. i cant find any information on whats in these or on anything else around here they all just seem to tell you what you can do with them but nothing on the ingredients, so im not sure if these will be great or not. shops here suck...

ive looked up sexing the plants but they never really say what age you can do this from (or i missed it). i will be growing in two different spots so id like to keep 2 definate females in one spot and then the rest in the other. the plants are about 3 weeks old and i would like to get them outside as soon as possible. 

im at a latitude of 53 o 00' N so conditions arent perfect but its supposed to be a hot summer for once and so far it is. 
also i havent used any fertiliser etc so far, i cant find any of the products mentioned on here or in books around here so *how bad is miracle grow?* easily found is all. anyway.. sorry for the long read but any help/answers are appreciated.

(photo from a few days ago they are a bit bigger now also one of the runts looks a bit yellow compared to the rest, fixable or is this a death sentence?)


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## The Hemp Goddess

I would try and get them under some 24 hour light so you can get a little more growth before putting them outside.  I am not a soil grower, so have only limited knowledge.  However, I would recommend against Miracle Grow.  Get some decent nutes from a hydro store or online.  I like General Hydroponics nutes and many people here use Fox Farm.  Do not plant in shallow containers--the roots need space.  It will probably be 6-8 weeks before you can sex these.  Watch out for hermies as this is bagseed.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

hi thanks for the suggestions, 24 hour light isnt an option this year, i think next time ill grow indoors but this has to be as if for now. definately not optimal conditions so i know it wont turn out great or anything.

about the roots i was thinking of giving each plant a single bag would that be enough room for roots? it would help me bring them inside if weather gets crappy as this will probably happen. this would be only for the two i am keeping close by the others will be planted in the ground with compost etc. 

ive heard mixed things about miracle grow anyway ill get looking for nutes, see if i can get anything around here.

cheers for the sexing timeline was hoping it would be quicker, good to know.


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## thomas 11111

I wouldn't bother with the bags.  I went to the dollar store and got 3 gallon garbage cans. They were 3$ each.  I drilled holes around the bottom of them (not in the bottom though) just around the sides at the very bottom.  They work great.  That might be an option.  I strongly recommend no miracle grow also.  I am on my first grow also and used 1 application at 1/4 strength and wish I wouldn't have.  It gave my plants minor burn :shocked:  and luckily I noticed it immediately and flushed them and stopped it quick.  I started with 4 ak-48 and all showed sex there 4th week.  I use 4 4' cool white fluorescents for veg and they work fine.  Hope this helps.  Good luck!  :watchplant:  

P.S.  The pics are at 9 days seed.  Just 2 40 watt 4' flouro's.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

looks tasty, ill try and keep away from the the miracle grow, has anyone any experience with growbags? i would think that roots would spread out wide and get enough space that way but maybe this is wrong. one plant per bag seems like a similar amount volume as with a largeish pot. if its a stupid idea ill try and get pots but its to keep it hidden as its in a garden with neighbours etc. might not sound like it but it would be less conspicuous in the bags for me. 

also how long till outside planting would anyone recommend? preferably i would wait till i can sex them but if this is stunting them then maybe ill put them out earlier. though as it is i have them out from morning till late evening. i bring them inside at night but im worried about screwing with the whole night and daylight ratio, as is they arent in darkness for most of the night as theyre just in a room, so light leaks etc. is this a big problem keeping in mind this is only temporary.


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## thomas 11111

Bogart Mc Thunderdunk said:
			
		

> looks tasty, ill try and keep away from the the miracle grow, has anyone any experience with growbags? i would think that roots would spread out wide and get enough space that way but maybe this is wrong. one plant per bag seems like a similar amount volume as with a largeish pot. if its a stupid idea ill try and get pots but its to keep it hidden as its in a garden with neighbours etc. might not sound like it but it would be less conspicuous in the bags for me.
> 
> also how long till outside planting would anyone recommend? preferably i would wait till i can sex them but if this is stunting them then maybe ill put them out earlier. though as it is i have them out from morning till late evening. i bring them inside at night but im worried about screwing with the whole night and daylight ratio, as is they arent in darkness for most of the night as theyre just in a room, so light leaks etc. is this a big problem keeping in mind this is only temporary.


    Lots of people use smart pots.  They are bags.  Someone posted the other day about wallmarts blue shopping bags that you can buy were made out of the same material.  They are cheap and they hold around 3 gallons.  That would be another route also.  The 5 inch deep bags are probably not good though.  Mj roots like to grow deep.  I'm not sure about sideways.  I dont know if sideways roots would be very stable. But,  like I said.  Ia m a newbie myself.  I'm sure someone with more experience will chime in.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

thats an idea, i could get some canvas bags might be better and still incognito. 

also tomorrow im going to grow site 2 to prepare it a little, any tips? im gonna be diggin up alot and refilling with compost etc, any tips on whats best to use. im looking through material at the moment just asking here too. lots to read at the moment.


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## Locked

We need some of our outdoor growers to chime in....I grow indoors in dirt but outdoors is a bit different. I believe I hve read of peeps digging out grow holes and filling them in with good soil and even Organic amended soil. I wld not use MG nutrients either...they sell cheap, good MJ nutes like General Hydroponics Floranova 3 part. But not sure how well they wld work with outdoor growing. If I cld grow outdoors I wld dig my holes and fill them in with Nchef's Organic mix...then you wld only hve to worry about watering if it didn't rain enough. The feeding part wld be done pretty much. JMO
I am flat out faded so none of that might make sense....lol. Too much Jamaican bud today...


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

i think ill plant a few out tomorrow probably better than in a window anyway and if not ill still have some to try again with.

ill dig a few feet down and fill with compost and hope for the best. all compost ive found here is sparse on details(no ingredient list or ph), is there a certain vague type(ie. potting soil) that would be best no matter what brand etc that i could easily find or something to look out for as id prefer not to have to buy online and think ill be doing something tomorrow no matter what. if it turns out bad i will try again with the remaining plants. i have more seed so if this all goes badly ill probably buy some fittings and good soil online then grow indoors.

any ghetto way of improving soil without having access to much in the way of materials. like adding rocks/kitty litter to potting soil to help it breathe, was just looking though another forum and someone recommended that. stupid or not?..


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## thomas 11111

I would think that kitty litter would be absorbent.  The only thing that I would think they would be trying to replace would be perilite which is used for drainage and nutrients stick to the pourus surfaces. Not only that I would also think that kitty litter has some kind of chemicals in it which can't be good for MJ.  I wouldn't try it.  Or maybe they were using it to retain water.  Sorry I couldn't help more.  There's a couple things to mull over though.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

yeh they were saying the clay type id assume that wouldnt have many chemicals in it but who knows. anyway yeh it was just an interesting possibly stupid idea, not planning on doing it.

any known perlite replacements like this though?


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## thomas 11111

Bogart Mc Thunderdunk said:
			
		

> yeh they were saying the clay type id assume that wouldnt have many chemicals in it but who knows. anyway yeh it was just an interesting possibly stupid idea, not planning on doing it.
> 
> any known perlite replacements like this though?


  Vermiculite is good.  That is actually what I meant when I put perilite but I'm pretty sure they are both used for the same thing.  You should be able to find one or the other at farm supply stores.  They usually have a nute section.  That would be a good place to find a good medium also. We have a couple different ones in my area and I have seen them at both.  If you can find worm castings that would be a good thing to mix in also.  The plants in the cups above had worm castings added in the medium and they took off right from the get go.

VERMICULITE - is puffed mica which has been "popped" with heat. It is inert, and holds water like a sponge. It is often mixed with other ingredients to loosen the mix and aid in both its water and air retention. It comes in various sizes. The coarse and medium sizes are preferred because they allow more air to form between the particles than the fine. Vermiculite is very light weight.

PERLITE - is puffed volcanic pumice. It does not absorb water, but holds it on/in its pitted surface. It is used to loosen planting mixes and stabilize their water holding properties. It is so light weight it floats in water. It comes in various sizes. Coarse perlite allows the most air to mix with the
medium.
SAND - both construction or horticultural - was much more popular as a soil ingredient before vermiculite and perlite were available. It performs many of the same duties in the planting mix; stabilizing water retention and loosening the structure. The problem with sand is its weight. Even a cupful of sand adds considerable weight to a container.
GRAVEL - holds a little water on its surface and loosens soil. It is heavy and tends to sink in the medium. It is sometimes used alone in hydroponic mixes.
LAVA - holds water on its irregular surface and holes in its structure. It is lighter weight than gravel. It is sometimes used as a hydroponic medium. Clay pellets are sometimes used in place of lava because they are lighter weight Pea size pieces are the best to use.
STYROFOAM - is hydrophobic, and is used to keep mediums dryer. It is extremely lightweight and tends to float to the surface of the medium. Usually the little balls are used but sometimes irregular chips are.
PEAT MOSS - is chopped and decayed moss. It performs many tasks in planting mixes. It helps to retain water and holds nutrients and is a nutrient buffer which holds excess nutrients rather than letting them remain too concentrated in the water. For this reason most commercial mixes contain peat moss. It is very acidic and will lower the pH of the medium so that it should compose no more than 20% of the mix.
STEER MANURE - is fairly rich in nitrogen and other nutrients including trace elements. It holds water well. Many growers swear by it. Unless it is pasteurized, it may contain insect eggs and other pests.
BARK - is lightweight, absorbs water and holds air in its pores. As it comes in contact with fertilized water it slowly deteriorates, becoming more of compost. It is used extensively by commercial greenhouse growers. It can be substituted for lava and it weighs much less


What Growers Do In The Confusion
All of this information might seem a little confusing. An interested Party might ask, "Can&#8217;t someone just throw some dirt in a pot and plant the Seed? What&#8217;s with all of this complex stuff?" Selecting the right medium is very important to the plant, and the mixes are easy to prepare.
Successful houseplant growers often choose their favorite house plant mix. Here are some adaptions of popular mixes. The mixes with soil, compost or worm castings contain some nutrients for plants and help to "buffer" the nutrients supplied through the water. Buffering - means holding nutrients within the chemical structure so that they are temporarily unavailable. This helps prevent over fertilization.
Organic Mixes
These mixes contain organic ingredients which help to support plant growth and act as a buffer.
1. 4 parts topsoil, 1 part peat moss, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part perlite. Moist. Contains medium high amounts of nutrients. Best for hand watering systems.
2. 1 part worm castings, 2 parts vermiculite, 1 part perlite. Light weight, high in nutrients.
3. 1 part worm castings, 1 part compost, 1 part topsoil, 2 parts vermiculite, 2 parts perlite, 3 parts styrofoam. Holds high amounts of water and air.
4. 1 part worm castings, 1 part peat moss, 1 part lava, 1 part vermiculite, 1 part perlite, 1 part styrofoam. Good buffering capabilities.
I some of this helps.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

thanks thomas interesting read. i got what i could anyway found perlite and then bought some multi purpose compost and some peat reduced compost all very vague and unlabeled. ill try an mix something out of this. 

i can do mix no. 1 except for the vermiculite
could i just use 2 parts perlite? 
also here its pretty wet most of the year would this impact what i choose? im guessing less peat than usual...

or any ratio someone could recommend? or one of those to stay away from? gonna go read though some resources anwyay hopefully ind something related. cheers for the info


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

did it, will post pics when i have some if they survive!

planted 6 out so two left for closer planting, buried up to the semi leaves cant remember the name at the moment, embryonic? so a bit more stable hopefully theyll start to bulk up.

mixed some mixed use compost with perlite, bit of topsoil, peat and some gravel best i could do for now anyway.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

just a question on fertilisers if anyone knows, went to local gardening shop got what i could. 

its Doff liquid growmore 
N-P-K 7 7 7 
any idea if this will be ok or kill plants...? again limited resources. will only be using a very diluted amount, any advice?

instructions for fruit and veg so guessed it was safe. anything to look out for? good or bad


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## The Hemp Goddess

I would get some decent fertilizer online formulated for mj if none is available where you live.  You want something with more K and less P.  For instance GH Flora Nova Grow (a 1-part nute) is 7-4-10.  You need different formulas for flowering than for vegging.


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## PencilHead

thomas 11111 said:
			
		

> I went to the dollar store and got 3 gallon garbage cans. They were 3$ each.


 
Hmmm, the Dollar Store, huh?  Damn, bro, b'leive you got screwed outta two bucks.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I would get some decent fertilizer online formulated for mj if none is available where you live.  You want something with more K and less P.  For instance GH Flora Nova Grow (a 1-part nute) is 7-4-10.  You need different formulas for flowering than for vegging.



yeh ive read a bit about nutes just hard to find something ill try and get something delivered. was looking through alot i think ill have another look anyway i remember seeing some with higher K i was just looking for something short term anwyay will buy better stuff and some with more phosphorus for flowering. thought itd be better than nothing anyway.

theyre looking good but havent grown all that much yet. bad weather last week. i have noticed a possible problem... one or two leaves on the largest plant have some damage to them little white marks(not really spots) ill try and get a photo up maybe it would help diagnose it. 
should i remove the leaves outright?  

must get some bug repellant.


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## The Hemp Goddess

No, do not remove the leaves unless they are over 50% damaged.  Don't spray until you have identified the problem and then treat with the correct problem.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> No, do not remove the leaves unless they are over 50% damaged.  Don't spray until you have identified the problem and then treat with the correct problem.



cool, was waiting to see anyway. ill get a pic up when i can.


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## Locked

PencilHead said:
			
		

> Hmmm, the Dollar Store, huh?  Damn, bro, b'leive you got screwed outta two bucks.



Lol.....


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## ftw2012

ive grown outdoors for a few years now and i think that it is important to remember that we are growing a weed....last year i had good results and i never ferted once...also i just planted them in the regular soil....remember that once you have them out and theyve gained some growth you really dont have to bother them unless its insanley dry or you have to kill a male...just remember if you dont get good nutes then you might be better off using nothing or only ferting once or twice over the whole growing season...good luck


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

ftw2012 said:
			
		

> ive grown outdoors for a few years now and i think that it is important to remember that we are growing a weed....last year i had good results and i never ferted once...also i just planted them in the regular soil....remember that once you have them out and theyve gained some growth you really dont have to bother them unless its insanley dry or you have to kill a male...just remember if you dont get good nutes then you might be better off using nothing or only ferting once or twice over the whole growing season...good luck



yeh im taking a minimalistic approach, not going to go mad on nutes but a few times through the season at diluted levels.

found some stuff in my shed that is 5-2-5 but it is a generic brand basicly wal mart brand substitute over here. is there any difference? 

also heres a photo of the leaf damage

any idea what this is? removal of leaves necessary? this was a few days ago so could be worse or better by now i wont know for a while
just looks like nibbles to me..


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## mountain man

Yah !!  Spider mites !


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

course of action? 

was reading a sticky on here about them a few hours ago said they werent too much of a problem outdoors.. true? or maybe just compared to indoor grows.


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## The Hemp Goddess

*Marijuana is not a weed* and if you want to get the most out of it, you do need to take care of it.  There is a huge difference between the plants being "okay" and producing dank bud.  I would recommend fertilizing regularly, especially during flowering.

I am not sure that what you have is spider mites.  Check the underside of the leaves for the little buggers and/or their eggs.  They are very small, almost microscopic.  What are the dark things on the leaves?


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

i will fertilise but those 6 are far away so i dont get to see them as much. two closer will be taken care of (unless theyre male). 

at the time i looked underneath and saw nothing really it was a liltle light on the other side of where they were white on top but didnt see any bugs/eggs. the dark things are just specks of dirt, probably off my shoes removed them before i left anyway. 

would you trust generic brand 5-2-5 nutes? or could they be harsh and not worth the risk.
still planning to get some online at some point but im very busy at the moment so would be handy if these would do for a bit anyway.

will have another look when i get a chance and see if its progressed anyway.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

just some pics as an update. 6 left now two runts just got the chop, one plant is showing weird leaves but has always been a weird one also stressed with aphids etc. i planted these four too close together i think might try to LST them but for now theyre growing away fine anyway.


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## Locked

They look a lil N hungry.....other then that not too bad looking at all.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

yeh still looking for something decent, been giving them nutes that have like 7-7-7 and 5-3-5 so less than ideal and just started with a bit of seaweed. had no ingredients, ill find something better anyway looking again this week.

still no sex though any guess to how long that should take? shoots at all nodes but no pistils or anything that could become them yet.


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## Locked

When you start seeing alternating nodes you will know they are sexually mature and pre flowers can start showing at anytime...keep an eye out for them.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

still a while so cheers


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## tcbud

I'm with *THG*, I am unsure also that what you have there is spider mites.  The mites sign will be white/yellow dots (pin head size or smaller) spaced out, not so bunched up as that.  Outdoors you can get spider mites, I had them very bad last year.

If you are gonna LST them, head on and do it.  If you are in the Northern Hemisphere, you have about four weeks or so to veg.

Looking good* Bogart*.  I also recommend nutes, especially in flower.  Good luck to you.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

cheers, yeh i havent seen anything on those plants since then.

i come from the north. forgot had to LST in veg will get on it, this time at least i only want to spread them out a bit, no drastic change just give them some more space and light. 

is it too late to top? gonna go read up about all that again anyway but just wondering. i fancied trying it on one plant to see the difference unless its not much use now.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

found some 5-2-6 nutes should be better than what ive had so far anyway


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## jibba069

I don't tear any leaves off my plants. I usually let them fall off outdooors or indoors cause then your just creating a spot the plant has to heal. If it's 50percent dead then its still 50 percent alive. let nature do its course on something like that..


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

semi-update, 6 out of 6 females, hopefully no hermis pop up. plants are about 5 foot but might not finish due to terrible weather and planting too late. harvest pics to come if i get anything anyway.


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## drfting07

Pictures would be awesome! Hope all is going well


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## Lemon Jack

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> *Marijuana is not a weed* and if you want to get the most out of it, you do need to take care of it.  There is a huge difference between the plants being "okay" and producing dank bud.  I would recommend fertilizing regularly, especially during flowering.




Exactly were growing quality product here. To get the most out of it you got to put the most into it.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

drfting07 said:
			
		

> Pictures would be awesome! Hope all is going well



here you go, 

these two plants are behind the 4 best ones by about a week id guess and those are much bigger but theyre in another location so i only have pics of these two for now. 

out of six plants i got six females, no hermies so far anyway. pretty good for bagseed, still have around 50 left might plant them out in the wilderness next spring and see what happens.

i know theyre early in flower but how long does it look like they have left. have had a really bad "summer" and not long left till it gets frosty but any slim chance of me getting these finished?
i got some canna terra nutes btw.
i will be happy getting anything off of these.


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## PuffinNugs

from the pictures it looks like you have quite a way to go. 4-5 weeks atleast, is my guess


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## Locked

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> from the pictures it looks like you have quite a way to go. 4-5 weeks atleast, is my guess



:yeahthat:

Those don't look even close to done....they look like they are about 2 weeks in. So maybe another 6 if ya lucky.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

thought as much, atleast the other 4 i have are ahead of these anyway. first frost is in late october early nov. see what happens, if i have to pull early how long from now would they have any effect(even just enough to make hash from)? just im guessing ill probably have to. might be able to bring these two indoors and maybe cover the other 4 if they need it.

have an auto grow going so i wont be too miserable if i get nothing off these but it would be nice to get something.


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## drfting07

Late Oct here too


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

late october is being pretty hopeful for me anyway, 

heres another bud for some estimation if anyones bothered, this is from the 4 that are further along(not by much i know)

what do you think? these ones are atleast a little frosty looking.
same as others or 3-4-5? just trying to figure out what ill do.

also its very wet here but also pretty cold will mold be less of an issue than usual due to temps?
cheers


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

went to check on the plants there a day or two ago and saw a tiny bit of mold, its getting risky with frost too so i have taken them early but through a scope there were a few amber trichromes so im happy enough pretty sure theyd have been dead if i had left them another week.

not dense buds but for the terrible summer i had im happy to have this. we had max 15 good days and even at that thats good for here probably bad for most countries and the rest was rain rain rain atleast i didnt have to water them only for feeding though.
plants in pics are lst'd grew pretty huge probably six foot if not tied down.

 think i got a few ounces but could be wrong. i kept only the bigger buds to dry and have half a garbage bag full of popcorn and trim which ill make some hash from in the freezer till i get some bubble bags(heard this was fine correct me if not but might be too late now).

humidity here is 70%-90% but i have a single use dehumidifier and so far have it down to 45 or so. threw anything remotely moldy and im keeping an eye on them for anything but seems to not have spread.

had a worrying phone call today. some friend of a friend being an idiot prank calling me saying he was the police and i was under investigation for something unrelated to growing but started off by mentioning one place i grow in just out of chance and vagueness had me freaking out. horrible paranoia and worst possible timing. no one knows anything just a really unlucky coincidence with drunken idiots and bad timing.

all hung up to dry anyway and im happy, house reeks wonderfully.

two plants still outside in pots at a different location which i might pull just to make some hash from them. 
got an auto grow a few weeks from harvest too, doing well in  my t5 cabinet thing russian rocket fuel and easyryders, good times.

next season im pretty sure im going to put alot of autos outside guerrilla grow style as i think theyll have a much better chance of finishing and growing something respectable.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk

yeh i wanted to but i was rushed as i wasnt planning on harvesting and had to work that night had about an hour to cut them down trim and hang 4 plants. i know itll slow down drying a bit but it was the only option. working till like 3 am 
that was a few days ago anyway theyre on their way to be dry leaves already curled into the buds so i think itll have to be once theyre in jars at least. ill probably just rip them off and throw them in with the popcorn when im making hash.

i did a better job on the few biggest main cola ones at the start, they were hung first so hidden by the others


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