# Adding organics to soiless mix to use with earth juice nutes



## next (Mar 15, 2015)

Hey guys, so I have had slight problems in the past running pro-mix and earth juice. I have read that it is somewhat of an uphill battle trying to do liquid organics in a soilless medium. There's not enough organic matter to help the organisms and such create a nice little home to feed my pant.

I have a few options to amend my soilless (pro-mix hp) with, so that it will hopefully be more "organic" and work better with my earth juice nutes.

Earth worm castings I know are great, and I have enough to add about 10% to the volume of dirt I need. 

Kelp meal I read would be a good addition, was going to add that at a rate of 1-2tsp per gallon of soil. 

Azomite! Wetdog adds 1cup per 1ft³ of soil, I was going to add the same amount, it would be a replacement for my microblast nutes. Works out to about 10ml per liter of soil to get to 1cup / 1ft³

Dolomite lime to help buffer the PH, I think pro-mix HP has it in there, but a little more probably won't hurt either, was going to add it at a rate of 1tbsp per galon of soil.

Any thoughts or suggestions? Thanks guys


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## Rosebud (Mar 16, 2015)

Hey Next,

this is where you need to be reading.. you are on the right track.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54272


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## next (Mar 16, 2015)

Thanks Rose,

I've read literally hundreds of posts about earth juice, including that one  

How do you use your earth juice? Do you bubble, or adjust your ph?

I'm pretty sure I fried my last plant from the low ph, I didn't bubble, or adjust ph, it was a test of sorts.. didn't turn out so good for the lil guy. 

I ended up leaving out the kelp meal, figure I can always make a tea out of it and use it later. I'm nervous about adding extra's to the soil still, although it would be nice to just grow with water. One day.. one day..


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## Rosebud (Mar 17, 2015)

Next, remind me what your medium is. Are you all organic?   the simplest grow for me was ffof and  earth juice.  When i grow outdoors or if something needs food stat I make a tea, but indoor, sometimes i do, depending on what the plant is asking for. I know that sounds weird but if you grow the same strains for a while they tell you when they are hungry.


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## next (Mar 17, 2015)

Should be all organic, pro-mix is the medium I have. I've never seen this FFOF where im at but I will for sure be keeping a look out. Seems like everyone loves the stuff


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## Rosebud (Mar 17, 2015)

Amazon.com Fox Farm Ocean Forest.


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## next (Mar 17, 2015)

Haha, that was the first pace I checked!

$35 for 12 quarts, not bad.. the kicker.. $142 shipping :O


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## Rosebud (Mar 17, 2015)

I belong to amazon prime so it is free shipping. who could afford that?????


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## zem (Mar 17, 2015)

hey there next, interesting topic, you said that it is soilless, is pro-mix not a soil?


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## next (Mar 17, 2015)

I believe that is a whole other can of worms, probably a debate for a whole other thread. as well.

But a quick look at wikipedia shows "Soil is the mixture of minerals, organic matter, gases, liquids, and myriad organisms that together support plant life"

None of which are present in pro-mix, perhaps some minerals to buffer the ph. But it is an inert substrate that contains little to no nutrients, or minerals. 

If you put a plant in pro-mix it will wither and die without the help of fertilizer

Anyways I do believe the general opinion is that pro-mi and sunshine mix are considered a soilless medium


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 17, 2015)

next said:


> Haha, that was the first pace I checked!
> 
> $35 for 12 quarts, not bad.. the kicker.. $142 shipping :O



Never mind the shipping, $35 for 3 gallons of mix!?! That is insane! $10+/gallon?!?

For right at $35 I can make 10x that amount of my basic mix. ~10 cf+- = 75 gallons more or less = 300qts.

4cf bag of perlite---- $22.00
3cf bale of peat moss ----$10/$12    Expands out to a bit over 5cf.
2cf bag of pine bark fines----$2.50

Total: $34-$37    ~$2.15/gallon. Even adding amendments the cost would stay under $3/gallon.

This is close to, but not quite, Pro Mix. My peat moss comes from the same company that makes Pro Mix (Premier) and is all I use.

It is super easy to amend Pro Mix with dry amendments and to make it a living soil in its own right. The real kicker is when you use EJ along WITH the living. soil. The combo was an accident with great results.

Dry amendments can lead to sticker shock if you try and get everything at once, but there are just a couple 'must haves'. The rest can be gotten as time and funds permit.Just what do you actually have? Thought I saw kelp mentioned, what else?

Wet


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## next (Mar 17, 2015)

Hey there,


I have the entire original earth juice lineup but those are all liquids.
Grow/Bloom/Xatalyst/Meta-k/Microblast/Hi-Brix Molasses

And some Muskie fish emulsion

Not many dry amendments on hand
Dolomite lime
Azomite
Kelp Meal
3 liters EWC left

I have a bale of pro-mix hp, and a bale of sphagnum moss, and a big bag of pro-mix organic vegetable and herb mix

recently picked up some sunacat organic dehydrated sugar cane juice, to use with tea's.

Seems like alot but its never enough it seems..


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 17, 2015)

You have a full bale of PM? That expands to what, ~6cf or so?

You will need some perlite (2cf bags at HD for easy source), and more EWC.

If you have 5-6 cups of the kelp meal, dolo lime, and the azomite you will be GTG.

Save the other stuff till later, this will just be PM.

Wet


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## next (Mar 17, 2015)

Yes still have a full bale. I'm not sure on how much a bale expands to, lots of people say different things. I wouldn't doubt if it expanded to almost 8-9cf

For what its worth I was running out of time, the tap roots were coming out the bottom of the pots for my autoflowers, so I used the last of a pro-mix bale and mixed the following.. I did this yesterday..

20 gal pro-mix (was like 1/3 of a bale)
1.5gal EWC
3cups azomite
20tblsp dolomite lime

I was nervous about the kelp meal so I left it out, I didn't really have the time to let it "cook"

I'm still all ears tho, I will mix up this bale for use this summer, for either outdoor, or my satori grow that will kick off in the next month or two.  I will make a run to a large garden center to pickup the perlite and EWC. 

How much ewc do you recommend? 

Thanks for your time, muchly appreciated.


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## next (Mar 18, 2015)

Have you ever tried out the dry powdered nutes from earth juice?

[ame]http://www.amazon.ca/Hydro-Organics-Earth-Juice-HOF04023/dp/B005H79JYO/ref=sr_1_7?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1426695864&sr=1-7[/ame]
[ame]http://www.amazon.ca/Hydro-Organics-Earth-Juice-HOJ50202/dp/B0055F4B28/ref=sr_1_9?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1426695897&sr=1-9[/ame]
[ame]http://www.amazon.ca/Hydro-Organics-Earth-Juice-HOJ50002/dp/B005DPDNRY/ref=sr_1_11?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1426695897&sr=1-11[/ame]


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 18, 2015)

No, the PM won't expand to double, perhsps a bit over 1/2. My 3cf compressed bale of spagnum peat moss expands out to just under 5cf or so.

Never tried the EJ dry ferts. I do use Espoma dry ferts that are available locally. Same quality with no shipping charges.

ALWAYS source locally when you can!!

BTW, do a top dress with the kelp meal on those plants where it was omitted from the mix. 1tbl/gallon of mix will do just fine. Scratch it into the surface if you can without disturbing roots.

*I* apply lime @1 cup/cf, which is 2tbl/gal IIRC. Mostly now, the 'handful' method is used. Exact measurements with organics aren't necessary once you get a feel for it.

The EWC is a toughie since I've never used bagged EWC. Have my own worm bins and use much less than most recipes call for, 20% or less. A blend of EWC and compost works well also. I'd really suggest Craig's list for any local. Much cheaper and usually better quality. Starting your own bin is best.

Really suggest reading the Soil Mix sticky for ideas and insight.

Meanwhile locate perlite in 2 or 4cf bags. Anything smaller will kill you in cost. 4cf bag here is $23. 2cf is ~$17 and it gets more expensive as the bags get smaller.

Wet


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## next (Mar 19, 2015)

Not much local around here.. but if I drive an hour or two my options open up alot. I found someone selling vermicast on craigslist but chickened out last minute. A worm bin may be in the near future if the wifey is willing to feed them when im gone, lol..

I went shy on the lime because it says the pro-mix hp has it in there already, but good to know for next time.

The plants in question are only 4 day old seedlings, which is why I left out the kelp meal, should I still add it as a top dress this early on? I'm sure I can work it into the soil, theres lots of room around the 3" peat pot. I have read of people saying it gets quite warm the first day or two after its mixed in, just don't want to burn the little guys..

I have a compost bin setup, it was in my basement but it started to get stinky so I gave it the boot. Just a large trash can, its been going for almost a month now, but won't have any compost for another month or two at best. Especially now that isn't outside chilling..

Muchly appreciated!

I have read alot about mixing soils, the kicker is I have a large quantity of earth juice.. it was cheaper to buy gallons rather than quarts.. so... thats why I was trying to find an inbetween soil, something that would compliment the earth juice I already have. Also I didn't prepare ahead of time, so I couldn't wait for the soil to "cook"


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 19, 2015)

No, wait at least several weeks to add the kelp. Didn't realize they were just seedlings.

You CAN add the kelp now to the miix you will be xplanting the seedlings into. Kelp doesn't need all that long to cook and you'll be fine.

BTW, this mix will work excellent with EJ,  Just use the EJ as you normally would. Bubbling is best, if you can. 

Wet


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 19, 2015)

zem said:


> hey there next, interesting topic, you said that it is soilless, is pro-mix not a soil?



We call it a 'soil', but it is soilless as it contains no actual dirt. 90%+ of all bagged mixes are soiless and certainly anything peat based, like ProMix, FF, or Roots for example.

Wet


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## next (Mar 19, 2015)

Thanks Wet,

Patience is a virtue with these sort of things, glad to know I was heading down the right track. 

Earth juice baffles me.. sometimes the ph rises perfectly after 36-48 hrs, other times it sits at 3.7 for ever.. usually I mix up another batch and try again.

I think adding a small amount of EWC to the earth juice definitely helps the ph rise, without the ewc I struggle.

Thanks for the replies and helping me figure this one out


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 19, 2015)

THAT^^^^ is where the well limed mix comes in, then it really doesn't matter the pH of the EJ.

Had the same thing happen with the varied pH after bubbling, but always used it anyway.with no problems.

Wet


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