# Sick plant...pics



## GreenBandit

it doesnt look like this guy is goin to make it...it's about 20 days old and lately i've noticed the leaves are starting to curl inwards, they're also starting to turn yellow...i think i over-watered it, was givin it about 2 cups every 4 days or so...anyone have any idea what the problem is from lookin at the pics??..yall agree its over-watering??...also do u guys think it will recover with careful nursing?


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## brainwreck

they need Magnesium, and quick

greetz


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## Hick

hi green'....it does look alot like mag defficiency. Try foliar feeding with about 1/4 tsp of epsom saltz dissolved well in a quart of water. That should correct a mag problem, untill you can get some nutes to them roots.
  I need to ask, is that coco fiber it's in?...Are you giving it any nutrients yet?..The medium looks nice and light 'n airy, but also looks totally void of anything with food value for your plant. 
   It really doesn't show overwater symptoms, look here..
Plant Abuse page


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## Herbsparky

I agree with Hick...the soil looks devoid of nutrients and the plant is showing signs of it.


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## Grim Reefer

Is that wood on top of the soil or is your plants root in shreaded wood. Just keep in mind that dried wood will make you solution very aciditity and will cause nuke lockouts. If the PH ilevel is below 5.50 for long period time, this will cause a MAG deficiency.

Grim


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## notthecops

I kinda think it looks like spider mites.  Check under the leaves with a magnifying glass.  If you see little yellow or white bugs moving around, you got mites.   If not......What they said^^^


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## GreenBandit

> HICK : I need to ask, is that coco fiber it's in?...Are you giving it any nutrients yet?..The medium looks nice and light 'n airy, but also looks totally void of anything with food value for your plant.



yep the medium is called coco coir growing media, the package says that it contains nutrients, as this particular product is specifically for hydroponic growing...i just started fertilising last week as well.

The funny thing is that i have 3 plants all together and the other 2 are looking quite good, its just this one that is giving me problems.  I've been doing everything the same with all 3 plants but in this particular plant i've been giving 2 cups of water instead of 1 because it's in a larger pot...so thats why i thought over-watering was the reason for its bad condition.

if one is lacking magnesium then how come the other 2 are fine?...i have noticed a slight curling of the leaves of the other 2 but no yellowing or anything...u guys still think i should try the magnesium?? 

Heres pics of the other 2 aswell....


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## GreenBandit

see in the second pic if u look closely the leaves are starting to curl inwards....is this something to be worried about guys?


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## GreenBandit

Oh and no spider mites NTC...


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## nobogart

hello bandit, does the coco fiber package list what the nute`s are and amounts?

looks like all of the plants are showing the same signs just more pronounced in the one.

have you checked ph if so what is it at?

from the limited information and the pictures i would have to say mag defficiency also, pending further information.


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## Hick

GreenBandit said:
			
		

> see in the second pic if u look closely the leaves are starting to curl inwards....is this something to be worried about guys?



....I still feel you're short on magnesium. See the leaves "praying" ?..they're praying for some mag.. IMO....I'd still like to see sme ph #'s, too, from your medium and your water.  Coco fiber is something I've never worked with.


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## notthecops

I agree with Hick.  If it's not mites, what's your PH? and Nute levels?


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## GreenBandit

ok looks like i have to go out and get a pH tester...ill let yall know


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## notthecops

You just answeed the question lol!!

If you haven't tested it, I garantee it's too high.  Most tap water is around 7-8, by the time you add your nutes, it's probably higher.  While you're at the store getting a PH tester, get some PH down while you're at it.


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## GreenBandit

i always let my water stand in a open container for at least 24hrs before using it...does this help with controlling the pH levels in the water??

also do u guys think its possible to save this guy?..or is it too late??



> Hick: 1/4 tsp of epsom saltz dissolved well in a quart of water.



sorry but im not familiar with how much a quart of water is...can someone tell me wats that in cups or mls??

...and the package of the medium im using only says it contains organic fertilisers and that its pH is 5.7-6.2


thanks again guys im determined to save this guy


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## GreenBandit

Another quick question...i have to transplant the plants to bigger pots so i was thinking i would be better off just using a completely different medium that contains the appropriate nutrients... would this help the plants or shock them??...thanks in advance


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## Hick

hey bandit..sorry, a quart is .95 litres, and a tsp = 4.9 ml.

You might try a fish store or a pool/spa store for a cheap ph kit, if a meter is outta the question.
   Setting water out overnight is good for dissapating chlorine, but I don't think it affects ph much.
   What ratio are the N-P-K's at in the medium?...does it list the micro-nutes?..



> contains organic fertilisers and that its pH is 5.7-6.2


....sounds good, (just a tad low for soil..IMHO) but something is amiss, me thinks.


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## GreenBandit

> Hick:What ratio are the N-P-K's at in the medium?...does it list the micro-nutes?..



had a good look at the packaging and nothin about NPK ratios, all it says is thats its 100% organic and it contains micro-organisms ...

how often u think i should use the epsom salt dilution for?


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## notthecops

"Micro-organisms" aren't your main nutrients.  They are micro-nutrients.  You need to get some nutes.


Letting your water sit overnight only makes your PH stable (doesn't drift), you still have to adjust it.


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## GreenBandit

well the nutrient solution im using contains the appropriate ratios of NPK as its specifically formulated for the vegative growth phase...thing is i first applied it about a week ago and over the past 7 days there has been significant changes in the appearance of my plants, which anyone can see in my thread in the 'Grow Journals' section of this board.  

So now im starting to think that i either used too much nutrient solution or i waited too long (15days) to start applying nutrients to the plants.

what do u guys think??

..also i noticed that the nutrient solution i have contains no magnesium at all. . .is this unusual for a vegetative fertiliser? no phosphorus (P) either.  The greater ratios of nutes come from nitrogen, potassium, and calcium - roughly equal amounts of calcium and nitrogen and a lesser portion of potassium...

i applied the epsom salt solution...can anyone tell me if i should do this on a regular basis? how often? or should it just be a one off thing to bring magnesium levels up?



thanks again


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## Hick

N-P-"C"..  Calcium is not a major nutrient, and can cause lockout problems if over applied. I've never encountered a fertilizer comprised of.. " nitrogen, potassium, and calcium - roughly equal amounts of calcium and nitrogen"....What is the Brand name?...surely there is info on the www

   It isn't _highly_ unusual for ferts to not contain magnesium, though mj does require a higher concentration of it than most plants. Dolomite lime is an excellent source of magnesium. Just mix in 1-2 tbsp. per gallon of soil.

   Foliar feeding epsoms should continue untill you've corrected the problem. But, I would mist with fresh water at intervals in between, to wash off the excess salts. They could eventually plug the pores and cause more problems.
Add a tblsp of epsoms to a gallon of water when you water, untill you are ready for transplant, then mix the lime to your new medium.(Lime also acts as a ph buffer, which you also need it appears)

    "If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.

Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients."


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## GreenBandit

ok cool thanks for the info


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## Grim Reefer

The best product that I have found for MAG as an additive for soil is (Green Sand).
Then you add a good heaping of Bat Guano and some worm casting, how could one go wrong. 

However, there are many other factors involved for excellent soil: Drainage, Aeration. Bud is easy to grow, but difficult to grow to its full potencial and I believe many will agree with me.


Specs:
GreenSand (0-0-7)
http://www.planetnatural.com/site/greensand-soil-amendment.html

Used as a soil conditioner and fertilizer since the 1970's, GreenSand (Fertrell Company) is mined from deposits of minerals that were originally part of the ocean floor. *Contains about 7% total potash, along with iron, magnesium, silica and as many as 30 other trace minerals.* May also be used to loosen heavy, clay soils. Improves plant health. Broadcast 50-100 lbs. GreenSand per 1,000 sq. ft. OMRI Listed for use in organic production. 

Mexican Bat Guano:
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=MBG400

Pure bat guano has been used for centuries as a plant food of the highest quality. An excellent source of Nitrogen, as well as other trace elements all vegetative crops need, our Mexican Bat Guano (10-2-1).


Jamaican Bat Guano
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=JBG400

Nothing is better for blooming flowers or ripening fruits than our Jamaican high phosphorus Bat Guano(1-10-0.2). This guano is most effectively used at the root zone, which heightens root and bud development. 

Worm Casting: (Use top soil as a filler. Do not use Mirale Grow soil, will become very *saltly* with in a short time.)
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=WCA400

Earthworm castings (1-0-0) contain abundant essential elements plants need for healthy growth, but all worm castings are not created equal! Wiggle Worm Soil Builder PURE Earthworm Castings are among the most consistent worm castings commercially available because they're manufactured indoors in premium peat humus. 

Castings rival chemical fertilizers in their nutrient composition, providing a concentrated source of calcium, magnesium, and nitrogen. Outdoors, line the bottom of your hole or furrow with three inches of castings. Indoors, use one part castings to three parts potting soil. 

Perlite (Aeration):
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=PER944

Because it doesnt crush fine stems or root systems, lightweight Perlite is perfect for growing delicate plants such as lettuce. You can mix perlite with topsoil or potting soil to increase root zone aeration or use it by itself or mixed with other sterile media in drip or passive hydroponics systems. 

Clearex (Salt Remover) I recommend this 100%, best every 21 days.
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=CLE400

Nutrient salts can build up over time creating a toxic condition in your hydroponic media or potted plants. Use Clearex as a front-line defense against this deadly situation. Clearex loosens the bond between nutrient salts and your growing media to allow thorough leaching of salt deposits. 

Final Flush Regular (Removes the harshness)
http://www.wormsway.com/detail.asp?sku=FFL400

Plants are 90% water. During growth and production stages of a plant's life, it can store excess water-soluble fertilizer salts in its tissues leaving fruits and vegetables with a bitter flavor. Final Flush eliminates excess salts so you can enjoy a sweet harvest. Half-liter size. 



If you are going to grow in soil, I do recommend putting a layer of rocks at the bottom of the bucket (5 gal), about 2 inches thick. If get the rocks from out side somewhere, bleach them first to kill any unwanted pest. Also Remember to drill lots of holes in the bottom of the bucket for drainage.

Peace,
Grim

Pic of my last grow in soil:


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## Weeddog

Very nice looking bud you got there Grim.


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## GreenBandit

yeh that sure looks good


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## Hick

niiiiiiice plant grimm!....greensand is a product that I've not used, but I do use castings extensively. They could be the answer to the problem, for sure. Maybe a tea or a top-dressing, or a tea AND a top-dressing.


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## GreenBandit

ok well i think this guy is making a nice recovery  ...thanks everyone for the helpful advice


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## Diseased Strain

What strain is that Bandit ? Sorry man. I missed this thread somehow. Comin in late.


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## GreenBandit

i really wouldnt have a clue about the strain...these were just some seeds i saved from a good batch of greenary i had a while back... does this plant look familiar to anyone? i suppose its too early to tell from appearance


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## Goldie

Grim, that plant of yours is a BEAUTY! What strain, please?

GB, I dunno...I`m thinking indica. It sure is nice & bushy, to be so small.


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## razorback

Alot of suppositions here and they all are possible. eliminating mites. would look to a nute problem. first would advise you to get rid of the mulch. as it decomposes it consumes nitrgen. from xperimenting with how much is too much, this looks like too much and micro element deficiency and many other things that cause clorosis like a radical PH factor. MJ will tolerate a fairly broad range of percent of hydrogen, but it does have a breaking point.If you're gonna grow and use all the specialized nutes follow the others advise ,get a ph meter.very small investment. I have after screwing around with aplant too much as it appears that you have as well, carefully transplant it to new potting soil that says it is neutral and begin with rooting compound with B1 and super thrive. you will be glad you have this stuff for the future anyway. then take it easy and let them grow.Eons ago when first started growing dont know how many plants were killed and stunted by fooling with them too much. Lots of good advise on the board, good luck Rzb PS if you have some more beans i would reload incase the remedy doesnt workout, and trim the yellow leaves, as the recovering plant has to support them too, this will force the growth to the top.....................It also exibits symptoms of a virus ,wash yer hands before you go around other plants


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## Diseased Strain

It's not mulch. It's a new type of coconut fiber stuff that is suposed to be good for planting. Or so I hear.


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## GreenBandit

ok guys i need some more advice...take a look at these 2 pics, my other 2 plants are now showing some serious signs of poor health....i've checked the pH and both read in the 6.2-6.4 range...too high?...from wat i've read this is not the problem and i feel it may be because i foliar fed these guys a few days ago and possibly ive caused some burning in the leaves...not sure

as u can see the older leaves are starting to really yellow up and die, the tips are starting to brown and curl up...i've checked for bugs but nothing, i really don't know what to do to help them, i don't want to over-fertilize but they seem to be screaming out for more nutrients....any advice guys??? thanks in advance


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## GreenBandit

a friend of mine said this was normal and nothing to worry about as the older leaves tend to yellow as the plant grows...is this true?

he also suggested it could be a nitrogen deficiency if the rest of the leaves are also starting to yellow...can anyone verify this??

wat should i do to correct the problem??


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## Grim Reefer

Start over and use soil or true hydro. Who ever told you to use coconut fiber without a drip system is an idiot. Dude it is time to start over and do it right, learn from your mistakes.

Grim


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## GreenBandit

start over?...i'd like to at least try and save them before taking any drastic measures.. i'm sure its just a nutrient deficiency of some sort...even if they don't make it at least i can learn more about the entire grow process as more problems begin to arise so i'll be better off come next grow...any other advice about these yellowing leaves guys?


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## Grim Reefer

It is going to take them longer to recouprate, then it would be to just start over. 

On my first attempt to grow hydro, I tried one plant. 2 weeks into flowering she developed a MAG issue. I was able to correct the MAG issue, but it hurt the plant so bad that the flowering stop and she just grow tall for 9 weeks and only produced 22 grams of non-smokeable bud (I had to throw it out). I have learned it is best to start over right, them to wait and see what happens. 

Your other (best) option, is to transplant into soil, veg for another 3 to 4 weeks. This may make them healthy enough to flower, not sure. I do believe you will have another 4 weeks of veg no matter what you do.

Wish you luck, 
Grim


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## razorback

Diddo to what Greaper said! Get over it, did a little research and bagsseed is considered by many to include' ed rosenthal' a source of viruses, Sargeant stripes to be specific or one of the other 3 hemp streak nightmares.They produce symptoms just like nute probs etc..weedworld#42 from2002 had a very good piece on this.burn the plants and sterilize anything associated with it,or you could have it over and over or worse spread it around.No the sky isnt falling,but that sure does look like the Sargeant. Get some good seeds from a reliable source and enjoy growing. happytrails Rzb  PS there are many sources of supplies but here is one that has EVERYTHING ,They will send you a very comprehensive catalogue free www.sunshinehydro.com  or another is www.discount-hydro.com  They also have grow manuals resonable too ,lol>  we all learn as we go buddy .peace.................


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## Hick

hey razor, got a link that I can read up on these virus's?...new news to me, I'm interested.


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## Grim Reefer

I thought "Ed Rosenthal" was the Bud expert, who grow for cancer patients. I'm confused on this one, RZ. I would also like to see this link of the virus report. Or just maybe the US government labeled him as a virus.

http://www.green-aid.com/edrosenthal.htm

Grim


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## cincy boy

it looks like your overwatering them man


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## Diseased Strain

I dont know anything about coco fiber. And I'm not good at "guess my problum" But mine do that at the bottom, turn yellowish and curl up when they get about root bound. How big is the pot ? Looks like a 6" or 8" to me. To small for a plat that size in soil. Not sure about the fiber thing though.


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## GreenBandit

well i just transplanted these two guys about 4 days ago into larger pots (~12" from one side to the other), so im don't pretty sure they're not root bound....they are now 4 weeks old

over-watering u think CB...might be a possibility, but i doubt thats the problem as i've been very cautious not to over-water by waiting til practically the entire medium drys out before re-watering..but who knows

heres some recent pics...i think ur right Grim im probably better off just starting over and scraping these 2....i applied some more epsom salt dilution yesterday in case its a mag deficiency but something occurred to me last night, the fertilizer i've been using contains high amounts of calcium and i read too much calcium can block the uptake of magnesium.  But then again it might not be a mag issue at all...what to do???


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## GreenBandit

> Grim: Who ever told you to use coconut fiber without a drip system is an idiot



i really like using this coco coir stuff its nice and light, easily aerated, and doesn't absorb any of the nutrients hence avoiding high acidity in the medium.  It can also be re-used.  My question is, is it really necessary to have a drip system with coco coir?

I've got some new seeds germinating now and wanted to get some ppls advice on which type of medium to plant them in...im thinking of trying a soil grow this time round but im worried about certain issues like drainage, build up of nutrients (i.e. hot-spots), and especially pests...is there a better alternative for peace of mind?...how bout half soil half coco? would that make any difference..?


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## Hick

Weed World issue 42 

I didn't spend a lot of time looking, but did a couple search's to no avail. I can't believe there isn't more info on them, especially if they re effecting folks mj crops. I'd think some of the larger forums would be undulated with information/questions. 

Bandit...I'm dumb as hell about hydro, but if you decide to go w/ soil, I might be of assistance in steering you correctly.


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## GreenBandit

yeh actually i think i might give it a try this time round seeing as my last 2 grows have been with coco...any particular types of soils i should be looking for? is there anything else i can mix in with it to increase drainage, aeration etc?? any advice would be much appreciated hick..cheers


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## Hick

sure bandit...lemme' see here.
  I prefer "Black Gold all organic potting soil", made with  "Canadian sphagnum peat mos, compost, earthworm castings, forest humus, perlite and pumice"
I hear good things about Fox Farms Ocean Forest, too. These are only a couple of "name brands" that I'm familiar with. There are plenty more out there. 
   I like to add around 15-20% more perlite to the BG(aeriation and drainage). I also ammend with around 10% more castings and a couple tbsp of hydrated lime p/gallon of soil, but probably not neceassary with a good fert regime and if your feeding water is in the acceptable ph range. 
   I have some links stored somewhere here that provide some recipes for mixing your own medium. See if I can dig 'em up if you can't find a source for good dirt.


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## GreenBandit

thanks hick...im gonna start a new grow in another month or so, decided to try and flower this plant here first. . .think it'll yield much under a 400w HPS? it's about 5-6 inches tall atm...


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## cincy boy

keep the one closest to the camra and toss the others and keep the one for trial and air


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## razorback

Ed Rosenthal is a noted authority on the cultivation of MJ in all areas.He has authored many books on growing,which include plant pathology.dont have a link at the moment,but "sinsemilla tips"and most grow books address the problem of hemp streak viruses. Just for quick reference I refered to issue #42 of weed world magazine, it had an article in it about viruses.As for me it was part of my curriculum of study in college.there was research on Hemp cultivation in the US during WW2, during which thousands of acres of MJ were grown all over the midwest,and it is still all over the place as a weed<lol> The hemp streak viruses are not only transmitable on clothes and carried by wind but actually get into the genetic composition of a strain. they then seem to come out of nowhere,thats why caution must be used when buying seeds and espesialy bag seeds.As for Ed, he has forgotten more than most of us know about botanical matters.  Go to   www.fsbookco.com for a partial listing of books by E.R. and many others. Alot of information available Pce   Rzb


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## razorback

Grim Reefer said:
			
		

> I thought "Ed Rosenthal" was the Bud expert, who grow for cancer patients. I'm confused on this one, RZ. I would also like to see this link of the virus report. Or just maybe the US government labeled him as a virus.
> 
> http://www.green-aid.com/edrosenthal.htm
> 
> Grim


                      just posted a responce to you're question, it popped up on the next page.cant believe such a lack of info on forums concerning viral issues either,it is a bad problem.folks treat it symptomaticaly as a nute prob.a common way to test for it is to place a chrysathamum or geranium next to a sick plant , in3-5 days if its viral they will have it, burn it all.


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## Hick

thanks razor. I get the chance, I'll dig a little to see what I can find. About all I did was google "seargant stripes virus" and "marijuana virus" I'm sure the info is here somewhere, just gotta' get out the shovel.. I know a grower that used chrysanthamums when she found mites in her flower room at about 6 weeks in. She claimed the mites would leave the mj for the chrys's, then she could toss 'em out. 

bandit, I apologize for the hijacking of your thread. It was/is a diagnosis that I had never considered, and interests me.


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## GreenBandit

hey hijack away...i think this thread is about done with anyway, thanks agian all for ur input...


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