# About cloning



## Pete (Jan 11, 2019)

If you clone a vegging plant before you know the sex, what do you get? .... specifically, is it only always one specific sex or can it vary and .... B. Is there anything can be done to encourage a female out of it? Thanks.


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## umbra (Jan 11, 2019)

you get whatever the donor is. if its female you get female. there are 3 possibilities male, female, and hermaphrodite . B, It doesn't work like that


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## Keef (Jan 11, 2019)

Wait ! ---Give Ole Pete a head ache !-- Telling him about the exception ?-- Selfing !-- You'll have to do some reading Pete !--- A female plant can be turned male and bred back to itself to produce seed -- It's a shame but U can't turn a male into a female even if U Jesus !


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## umbra (Jan 12, 2019)

Keef said:


> Wait ! ---Give Ole Pete a head ache !-- Telling him about the exception ?-- Selfing !-- You'll have to do some reading Pete !--- A female plant can be turned male and bred back to itself to produce seed -- It's a shame but U can't turn a male into a female even if U Jesus !


Yes you can, they just cause more problems than they solve


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## Pete (Jan 12, 2019)

So what I'm taking away from this is.... don't waste your time cloning something you aren't sure is female, but if you do, the only way you can ..... I just need to find some freakin' seeds.


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## Keef (Jan 12, 2019)

Pete they got some mix and match places that sell single seeds -- Order U some feminized seed -- Everyone is a girl !
If I can order seed and have them delivered to Texas then U can get seed where ever U are --If U looking for easy and quick maybe try some feminized autos ?--


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## Pete (Jan 12, 2019)

Hey Keef...

Yeah, I'm in Michigan so it's all legal now but it will be another year before any serious retail gets off the ground, they're still working on licensing and such. I have tried to find places to order seeds, but they've all been overseas and want you to jump 9 flaming hoops then somehow turn your money into bitcoin and it's all too much for me. Then they tell you you may not get 'em anyway.  Is what you're doing any easier?


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## Pete (Jan 12, 2019)

........ and I'm not sure about auto flower. I like the idea but not sure about yields and potency yet. If it is as good of quality as Indica, then I'm interested for sure. I'm just trying to keep a reasonable stash flowing for myself and my wife.


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## Keef (Jan 12, 2019)

Try Elev8 seed -- It's been awhile but I have ordered from them !


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## thegloman (Jan 12, 2019)

Pete
Most well established seed co's are good about getting the seeds to you.  I've bought from Nirvana seeds several times and never had a problem. I send cash. No hassel, no "lost" payments or shipments.  
There's autos now that are quite good!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 12, 2019)

I don't think it is a waste of time to clone unsexed plants.  Chances are that 50% of plants are female.  Cloning takes very little space and it is as easy to clone a bunch of cuts as it is just a few cuts.  And practice make perfect.   So, IMO, clone away and experiment to see what methods work best for you.  Having great cloning skill is very valuable.

I just ordered from an overseas seedbank (that I have never used before) that was pretty much hassle free.  They responded promptly to n e-mail I sent them.  I'll let you know how the transaction goes.


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 12, 2019)

I bought from attitude seeds in the UK. You can use(or could last I ordered) a credit card as long as you shopped with the currency set as GBP. When I had it set to USD, it would not allow me to order. Sent them an email and they replied with that trick. You get charged like a 3% surcharge by your credit card company but $3 on $100 seemed fair to me so I would not have to use bitcoin or send cash. Also if you choose stealth shipping(an extra $15)you will get a crappy belt or a tee shirt that has your seeds concealed within.


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 12, 2019)

Oh and I am in Massachusetts. We are legal now too but we were not when I ordered seeds. Our legal weed took 2 and a half years after we voted for it to become available and is now selling for prices around the benchmark of gold. Still can’t buy seeds here. Probably because they are too busy raping consumers with price gouging sums and why would they want to help out the consumers?


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## Pete (Jan 12, 2019)

Really appreciate all the suggestions. Great forum, lots of cooperation. I am busy again. Thanks. I'll post anything that comes of it all.


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## umbra (Jan 12, 2019)

In Michigan … greatlakesgentics.com


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## 2RedEyes (Jan 12, 2019)

One reason to clone is to determine the sex of the donor if you don’t already know...clone as soon as you can and send the clones into flower, then if you get a male you can pull the donor out of your grow so he doesn’t spread unwanted pollen...I prefer growing known females but you can’t get everything you want in a feminized seed...


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## Keef (Jan 12, 2019)

I like to keep a male around but when he gets outta control and I'm not ready for him I'll take a couple cuts off him--When they root I throw the bigger piece away and keep on keeping get on -- Keeping them small I was maintaining about 2 dozen varieties in a square yard at one time -- Use it like a library file card -- Pull out the one or more  I want --- grow it up a bit -- chop it into cuts replace the original cut in veg and run the cuttings --
Pete U might want to consider setting up a permanent grow with 2 grow areas --  Then again I used to know this other guy in Michigan -- He had a red cement mixer to make bubble hash -- He said up here we grow our smoking weed inside and turn the outside grow into bubble hash !
It's something to think about ?


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## Pete (Jan 12, 2019)

Keef said:


> I like to keep a male around but when he gets outta control and I'm not ready for him I'll take a couple cuts off him--When they root I throw the bigger piece away and keep on keeping get on -- Keeping them small I was maintaining about 2 dozen varieties in a square yard at one time -- Use it like a library file card -- Pull out the one or more  I want --- grow it up a bit -- chop it into cuts replace the original cut in veg and run the cuttings --
> Pete U might want to consider setting up a permanent grow with 2 grow areas --  Then again I used to know this other guy in Michigan -- He had a red cement mixer to make bubble hash -- He said up here we grow our smoking weed inside and turn the outside grow into bubble hash !
> It's something to think about ?



You keep the male around for fertilizing, right? After everything I've read, there aren't many other uses for it in this field anyway... 

I probably won't be setting up 2 rooms. We're in a modular.  Even the doorways are stupid small. You have walk sideways to get in without wrenching a shoulder on the jambs.


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## Pete (Jan 12, 2019)

2RedEyes said:


> One reason to clone is to determine the sex of the donor if you don’t already know...clone as soon as you can and send the clones into flower, then if you get a male you can pull the donor out of your grow so he doesn’t spread unwanted pollen...I prefer growing known females but you can’t get everything you want in a feminized seed...



So when you clone an unknown, like, as soon as you can, how long does it take to show the sex?


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## 2RedEyes (Jan 12, 2019)

I don’t know as I have not done that...I guess you can take a clone after you get 4 or 5 nodes then allow it to root and you can flip it to flower ...I guessing it’ll take a couple of weeks to flower and see what sex it shows...I have such limited space that I don’t use clones, I mostly grow feminized seeds but I have grown regulars as well and am right now...I just flipped my plant to flower when they got to an appropriate size for my cabinet and a couple showed male after a couple weeks and I pulled them...someone here who is smarter than me will come along I guess...


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

umbra said:


> In Michigan … greatlakesgentics.com


Got some OG Kush on the way. I do appreciate the help, bud.


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## Growdude (Jan 13, 2019)

Just take clones and flip the lighting, no need to wait for roots.
Shows sex in about 2 weeks.


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

Growdude said:


> Just take clones and flip the lighting, no need to wait for roots.
> Shows sex in about 2 weeks.



How would you prep the clones to last long enough to sex them?


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

Pete I understand your situation but  this is when 2 grow areas come in handy -- It's just hard to run a continously garden with one grow area -- What I would do in your situation is think about outside -- Get U something started -- U can sex them small by tuning the lights to 12/12---I pinch the top grow point out a week or so before sexing -- It encourages limb growth for clones --Get rid of any males or hermies --Flip the lights back to 18/6-- Get U some solo  cups or small containers and start rooting cuttings -- After the last freeze take them girls on a ride -- Keep a couple in the house --Put a couple here --a few there ?-- Then U can turn the lights back down and bloom what U kept in the house -- U can clone anything at any time for any reason --


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

Pete -- I'm tell U how to make a bubble cloner real quick -- It's a container ( Giggy used to use a 3 lb coffee can)-all U need is a cheap aquarium air pump and stone -- The rest U can find -- cut out a piece of Styrofoam that will float on top the water in the container-- Stick a hole thru the Styrofoam-- A cutting goes thru the hole with stem end in the water (tap water will work fine)-- Put the air  stone in the water and run it 24/7 -- float Styrofoam holding the cuttings-- Most will root in less than 2 weeks -- U can lift the Styrofoam out on occasion to look at root development -- When U got roots U can transplant into dirt -- They don't even have to be under light to root --


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

Keef said:


> Pete I understand your situation but  this is when 2 grow areas come in handy -- It's just hard to run a continously garden with one grow area -- What I would do in your situation is think about outside -- Get U something started -- U can sex them small by tuning the lights to 12/12---I pinch the top grow point out a week or so before sexing -- It encourages limb growth for clones --Get rid of any males or hermies --Flip the lights back to 18/6-- Get U some solo  cups or small containers and start rooting cuttings -- After the last freeze take them girls on a ride -- Keep a couple in the house --Put a couple here --a few there ?-- Then U can turn the lights back down and bloom what U kept in the house -- U can clone anything at any time for any reason --


I'm probably going to have to consider that dual grow room possibility. Makes a lot more sense when you put it that way. 

All the cloning I've watched, that's the first I've heard of doing it that way. Sounds reasonable and simple enough. Good stuff and I'll let you know what way I take it. Thanks dude.


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## umbra (Jan 13, 2019)

Take clones and put in a glass of water, then sex. change water after a week


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

umbra said:


> Take clones and put in a glass of water, then sex. change water after a week


... so are you describing not using cloning solutions? Just clip, scrape and put 'em in good water? and... No food, or that tea I get at the grow store made of worm turds and bat scat?


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

What's this scrape ?---No -- No rooting solution are anything - I just take a cutting and put it in Cloner -- My first cloner was a 25 spot aero cloner-- Once I saw how it worked I started building my own on a larger scale --Add nutes and U growing aero -- I like water pharmering -- No guessing --No watering or feeding -- Set it up and check the pH once a week or so and adjust -- I was running a whole 2 month bloom cycle without changing out my nute water --Just topping off with RO water -- I'm change to once a month !-Maybe some drip and drain tables ?
My current system pretty much runs itself  -- I don't really grow weed -- I kinda stay out the way and let it grow itself !


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## umbra (Jan 13, 2019)

Pete said:


> ... so are you describing not using cloning solutions? Just clip, scrape and put 'em in good water? and... No food, or that tea I get at the grow store made of worm turds and bat scat?


Just to sex them, you don't need that. If you want roots or to keep it, then yes you want nutes and/or cloning solution.


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

That thing about keeping a male around ?-- He just for breeding -- Sometimes U got to hang on to a male until U have his intended the right size and age to breed - I wanted some stuff born and bred in Texas -- Wasn't none so I bred my own -- I like growing stuff I bred !--


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

I said tap water to root in but that's not what I Do--- I take a cutting and put it in an aero basket and collar and stick it in an empty grow hole in veg ---forget about it !- I clone in nute water --Same thing I grow in -- No cloning solution


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

Keef said:


> What's this scrape ?---No -- No rooting solution are anything - I just take a cutting and put it in Cloner -- My first cloner was a 25 spot aero cloner-- Once I saw how it worked I started building my own on a larger scale --Add nutes and U growing aero -- I like water pharmering -- No guessing --No watering or feeding -- Set it up and check the pH once a week or so and adjust -- I was running a whole 2 month bloom cycle without changing out my nute water --Just topping off with RO water -- I'm change to once a month !-Maybe some drip and drain tables ?
> My current system pretty much runs itself  -- I don't really grow weed -- I kinda stay out the way and let it grow itself !



You guys do a lot of work to get your results and it don't come easy I know. So just up front, thanks for sharing your hard earned brain work and successful results. I appreciate it all and keep the suggestions as references.

Definitely interested in water.


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

Keef said:


> I said tap water to root in but that's not what I Do--- I take a cutting and put it in an aero basket and collar and stick it in an empty grow hole in veg ---forget about it !- I clone in nute water --Same thing I grow in -- No cloning solution



I'm getting ready to run an RO system for my house.  That should power down my water issues.


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

umbra said:


> Just to sex them, you don't need that. If you want roots or to keep it, then yes you want nutes and/or cloning solution.



So making sure I'm clear....

Just to sex them, it can be a couple weeks but they won't probably root much during that time and they stay healthy just plugged into water that long. And then if they're females, I can just start to root them at that point?


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## umbra (Jan 13, 2019)

Pete said:


> So making sure I'm clear....
> 
> Just to sex them, it can be a couple weeks but they won't probably root much during that time and they stay healthy just plugged into water that long. And then if they're females, I can just start to root them at that point?


Yes, or take fresh cuts and root them, because now you know their sex. Or mark it on the label and continue to veg and take cuts at another time.


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

I have been known to do it almost opposite of that Umbra --
I move a plant to bloom to sex it -- When I've got a girl I take some cuts and move them back to veg -- It's a new girl and I don't know what I got so sometimes I just let the original seed plant stay in bloom and finish up while the cuts are rooting -- So I get a taste ---If I like it I can come back with all the cuts I want --
Pete -- Umbra said something important -- If U got more than one variety-- U got to keep everything labeled !-- I cut label squares out of milk jugs and write the variety on it and it stays with the plant til harvest !


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

umbra said:


> Yes, or take fresh cuts and root them, because now you know their sex. Or mark it on the label and continue to veg and take cuts at another time.


Makes sense. Thanks.


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

Keef said:


> I have been known to do it almost opposite of that Umbra --
> I move a plant to bloom to sex it -- When I've got a girl I take some cuts and move them back to veg -- It's a new girl and I don't know what I got so sometimes I just let the original seed plant stay in bloom and finish up while the cuts are rooting -- So I get a taste ---If I like it I can come back with all the cuts I want --
> Pete -- Umbra said something important -- If U got more than one variety-- U got to keep everything labeled !-- I cut label squares out of milk jugs and write the variety on it and it stays with the plant til harvest !


Yes, label. yes....


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## Rosebud (Jan 13, 2019)

I use honey for cloning and like it.


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 13, 2019)

i use honey as well though my cloning aptitude lately has been pretty poor. keefs aeroclone method has me thinking...


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

Only one thing about an aero cloner-- If it don't have a fitered pump it will make U crazy -- Then there's water temp -- pump running heats up your nute water -- It hits 80 degrees I get white slime -- I use those 35 gallon black and yellow boxes got a checkerboard top almost laid out for drilling -- I run about 12 gallons of nute water -- pump on 15 off 15 -- That 396 gph pump make it rain in those boxes -- I pump fresh air thru the boxes with an aquarium air pump-- People say that pump and stone don't oxygenated the water -- bubbles is too big -- I'm not trying to oxygenated anything -- I'm just moving air thru the boxes for air exchange -- It's a good system for cloning and early veg but I'm switch to something else for bloom -
34 grow holes in each box -- 68 in a square meter --
That might be a little over the legal plant limit in Texas ?


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 13, 2019)

Uh, I was told there’d be no math...


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 13, 2019)

Sounded easy and fool proof. Unfortunately I am a fool. I could bet on the only horse in a derby and the poor horse would be dog food before the gate dropped.


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## umbra (Jan 13, 2019)

You're really Dilbert aren't you?


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 13, 2019)

I aspire to someday be as good as dilbert...


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## Keef (Jan 13, 2019)

OF --U want a aero cloner ?-- When U get ready to build one I tell U exactly how to do it - No math !-- All the tools U need is an electric drill -- A 2 inch door knob drill and  A PVC pipe cutter or saw -- Glue da pump with filter to center of ceramic tile -- Make a square figure 8 PVC spray manifold -
Drill holes in lid with door knob drill -- Drill spray manifold with included drill bit from a package of micro sprayers -- screw micro sprayers into holes -- using included adapter attach sprayer manifold to the pump  -- and done -- 
U buy the aero cups and collars -- They also come in 3- 4 and 6 inch sizes --
The lights and pumps are on timers and aquarium pump runs all the time --


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## Pete (Jan 13, 2019)

Rosebud said:


> I use honey for cloning and like it.



You apply it like cloning chemicals?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 14, 2019)

If it were me, I think I would put the cuts in something like rapid rooters and endeavor to get them to root.  Learning to clone is a valuable skill.  And if you do have females, you won't need to start over--it can take 2-3 weeks (or more) for a cutting to show sex.  Also, just like when you are flowering, you need to make sure that you have 12 hours of absolute darkness


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 17, 2019)

Pete said:


> You apply it like cloning chemicals?


i do. i just dip the cutting in honey and stick the cutting in a small rockwool cube. i usually have pretty good results(though my last attempts were not good-mark it up to excessive moisture and thus rotten stems)...


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

oldfogey8 said:


> i do. i just dip the cutting in honey and stick the cutting in a small rockwool cube. i usually have pretty good results(though my last attempts were not good-mark it up to excessive moisture and thus rotten stems)...



I keep hearing about honey as opposed to chemicals or whatever is in those solutions. Is that, in your case, just because it works well and you stick with it, or is there a less talked about benefit?


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## No Clue (Jan 18, 2019)

Pete said:


> So what I'm taking away from this is.... don't waste your time cloning something you aren't sure is female, but if you do, the only way you can ..... I just need to find some freakin' seeds.


Pete....check out ILOVEGROWINGMARIJUANA.COM.  I LOVE Robert Bergman.  His seeds are awesome and he replaces them if they don’t grow well for you. He gives you lots of free info and has good sales. He develops his own strains. He has a free grow bible you can download.


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 22, 2019)

Pete said:


> I keep hearing about honey as opposed to chemicals or whatever is in those solutions. Is that, in your case, just because it works well and you stick with it, or is there a less talked about benefit?


It works well and I have it in my kitchen cupboard. Honey is supposed to have antibiotic and antifungal properties.


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## bluegrasser (Jan 23, 2019)

oldfogey8 said:


> It works well and I have it in my kitchen cupboard. Honey is supposed to have antibiotic and antifungal properties.



Sweet !


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## Capt. Stabby (Jan 23, 2019)

umbra said:


> In Michigan … greatlakesgentics.com





Yup!  (IRG)  Ice River Genetics, FTW!

Edit:  also The Vault now takes American Credit Cards.  I did it myself about 3-4 months ago, Couldn't pass on the HSO Chocolate Mint Og.


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## umbra (Jan 23, 2019)

Pete said:


> I keep hearing about honey as opposed to chemicals or whatever is in those solutions. Is that, in your case, just because it works well and you stick with it, or is there a less talked about benefit?


Its a hormone. Plants operate with a similar chemical neuro transmitters as humans.


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## STIGGY (Jan 23, 2019)

Capt. Stabby said:


> Yup!  (IRG)  Ice River Genetics, FTW!
> 
> Edit:  also The Vault now takes American Credit Cards.  I did it myself about 3-4 months ago, Couldn't pass on the HSO Chocolate Mint Og.


I have to second this
IRG (Ice River Genetics) are awesome


ALSO
Anyone who plans to shop at the Vault Seeds
You can use my discount code  stiggy11 to get 11% off the order


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## zigggy (Jan 23, 2019)

I was putting stuff up into storage and I found a vhs tape called ready set grow ,,,most have belonged to my dad ,,,looks like he ordered it from high times magazine ,,,,,,must be 20/25 years old ,,,trying to find a vhs tape player so I can see it ,,,,,should be fun to watch


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## STIGGY (Jan 23, 2019)

zigggy said:


> I was putting stuff up into storage and I found a vhs tape called ready set grow ,,,most have belonged to my dad ,,,looks like he ordered it from high times magazine ,,,,,,must be 20/25 years old ,,,trying to find a vhs tape player so I can see it ,,,,,should be fun to watch


That is way cool
Maybe if you get it working you could post it to youtube and link it here,


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## STIGGY (Jan 23, 2019)

zigggy said:


> I was putting stuff up into storage and I found a vhs tape called ready set grow ,,,most have belonged to my dad ,,,looks like he ordered it from high times magazine ,,,,,,must be 20/25 years old ,,,trying to find a vhs tape player so I can see it ,,,,,should be fun to watch


I wonder if this is it


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## zigggy (Jan 23, 2019)

,,,,,thanks stiggy ,,,,never thought of using youtube ,,,but I gave it a shot and there it was ,,,says it was put up on youtube  in 2012 ,,but I think its much older than that ,,,now I don't have to track down vhs player ,,,gonna log off and watch this ,,,gonna put the boy on the bus ,,,make me some tea ,smoke a joint and watch this video,,,,,heck they have a ready set grow #2 ,,if the first one is good ill watch the second one,,,,stiggy you beat me to the puch


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## STIGGY (Jan 23, 2019)

zigggy said:


> stiggy ,,,,never thought of using youtube ,,,but I gave it a shot and there it was ,,,says it was put up on youtube  in 2012 ,,but I think its much older than that ,,,now I don't have to track down vhs player ,,,gonna log off and watch this ,,,gonna put the boy on the bus ,,,make me some tea ,smoke a joint and watch this video,,,,,heck they have a ready set grow #2 ,,if the first one is good ill watch the second one,,,,stiggy you beat me to the puch



Well
Ziggy and Stiggy sounds like a team LOL
We think a like .
I also watch some not bad


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## Capt. Stabby (Jan 23, 2019)

Ahhhaaa the good ole days, the freak brothers comics, Fritz the cat, and Isomerizers.  And of course Hightimes mag.

You know I started reading the thread and jump to the end, so I don't know if this was already spoken about.  You can split an aloe leaf and rub the cutt in it as a cloning gel, and if you start with the damping off, put a dash of cinnamon at the base.


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## umbra (Jan 23, 2019)

willow water and aspirin will work, they trigger a hormonal response in the plant


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## umbra (Jan 23, 2019)

Root hormones are used in the cloning process to encourage plant cell growth. Plants naturally contain hormones called *auxins*, which help plants determine whether or not they should develop more leaves versus more roots. When you purchase a root hormone in a bottle, you’ll be using a synthetic auxin.
https://www.kelp4less.com/shop/cloning-powder/


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## bluegrasser (Jan 23, 2019)

umbra said:


> willow water and aspirin will work, they trigger a hormonal response in the plant



Wasnt Asprin developed from the inner bark of willow ? I think Native peoples used it.


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## umbra (Jan 23, 2019)

bluegrasser said:


> Wasnt Asprin developed from the inner bark of willow ? I think Native peoples used it.


Correct


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## bluegrasser (Jan 23, 2019)

umbra said:


> Correct



Thank you. So, what other compound or chemical is in the willow to trigger a hormonal reponse in plant material ?


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## umbra (Jan 23, 2019)

I don't know. The hormone is 1,n,indol something


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## bluegrasser (Jan 23, 2019)

umbra said:


> I don't know. The hormone is 1,n,indol something


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## umbra (Jan 23, 2019)

Indolebutyric acid


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## 2RedEyes (Jan 23, 2019)

So clones for sexing, just cut it and flower it? sounds like a good use of my space bucket...
Ive done weeded out the gents but next time I try growing some regulars, I’ll give that a go...


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## Capt. Stabby (Jan 24, 2019)

2RedEyes said:


> So clones for sexing, just cut it and flower it? sounds like a good use of my space bucket...
> Ive done weeded out the gents but next time I try growing some regulars, I’ll give that a go...
> View attachment 251380



What the heck?  Is that a reservoir?



I'm going to order a free sample of Urbnatural and give that stuff a try


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## umbra (Jan 24, 2019)

It's a self contained grow chamber with Leds


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## 2RedEyes (Jan 24, 2019)

Just a five gallon bucket with light, a fan and some control switches in the lid...the bottom has another smaller bucket grafted in to give a little more depth but you can also add bucket rims on top to get more height...the lights are the new led bulbs with the guts stripped out and installed in the lid...is a self contained micro grow space...I’ll use it to clone some plants for sexing or maybe try making some feminized seeds...the white elbows at the bottom are air vents...air gets sucked in at the bottom and out at the top...no filter so it’s gonna stink...


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## STIGGY (Jan 24, 2019)

Interesting to say the least


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## Pete (Jan 28, 2019)

No Clue said:


> Pete....check out ILOVEGROWINGMARIJUANA.COM.  I LOVE Robert Bergman.  His seeds are awesome and he replaces them if they don’t grow well for you. He gives you lots of free info and has good sales. He develops his own strains. He has a free grow bible you can download.


I actually did download that. Lots of good $hit that guy offers. Thanks for the heads-up!


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## Pete (Jan 28, 2019)

STIGGY said:


> I wonder if this is it



Pre LED days.


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## Capt. Stabby (Jan 28, 2019)

umbra said:


> Indolebutyric acid



Can't go wrong with Indo in the spelling!  Derp!



umbra said:


> It's a self contained grow chamber with Leds



So cool.  I was stumped.   



2RedEyes said:


> Just a five gallon bucket with light, a fan and some control switches in the lid...the bottom has another smaller bucket grafted in to give a little more depth but you can also add bucket rims on top to get more height...the lights are the new led bulbs with the guts stripped out and installed in the lid...is a self contained micro grow space...I’ll use it to clone some plants for sexing or maybe try making some feminized seeds...the white elbows at the bottom are air vents...air gets sucked in at the bottom and out at the top...no filter so it’s gonna stink...



Dang Red, good idea.  I have a 5gal clone bucket I made with 6 neoprene inserts in the lid and an airstone, I also have a larger one with like 28 or 30 sites.  Water pumps inside so boo on that.  The water gets hot because of that and I have to change out two frozen water bottles, every 6 hours, to keep it anywhere close to the right temp


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## JGVermont1965 (Jan 31, 2019)

Pete said:


> Hey Keef...
> 
> Yeah, I'm in Michigan so it's all legal now but it will be another year before any serious retail gets off the ground, they're still working on licensing and such. I have tried to find places to order seeds, but they've all been overseas and want you to jump 9 flaming hoops then somehow turn your money into bitcoin and it's all too much for me. Then they tell you you may not get 'em anyway.  Is what you're doing any easier?


True North Seedbank, from them to my doorstep in 5 business days.
They're a Toronto based company and customs isn't a problem. 
They're about average to high average in price but your beans are fresh and they come in the original breeder packs.


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## JGVermont1965 (Jan 31, 2019)

I live in Vermont so Michigan should work just as easily from Toronto.


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