# Sacramento supervisors outlaw medicinal pot dispensaries in the county



## FruityBud (Dec 13, 2011)

Sacramento County supervisors said they wanted to make it unambiguous that they won't permit medical marijuana dispensaries.

So board members passed a county zoning amendment that fails to include the words "medical" or "marijuana" or "dispensaries."

Instead, supervisors are seeking to bring an end to the county's once teeming medical marijuana trade by denying business permits to establishments that conflict with "either state or federal law, or both" under a new policy approved Tuesday.

The board's action comes after aggressive code enforcement efforts  and threats of federal prosecution or property seizures  shuttered all but a handful of marijuana stores in the county's unincorporated communities.

Officials said medical marijuana outlets were never permitted under county zoning laws. But that didn't stop as many as 99 dispensaries from opening in the past two years.

So board Chairwoman Roberta MacGlashan said supervisors voted 4-1 Tuesday "to clarify our existing ordinance" because it "didn't address marijuana dispensaries."

Even though the amended zoning code still doesn't, MacGlashan said the supervisors' vote now effectively bans marijuana stores by making it "clear we don't allow any use that is inconsistent with federal law."

The vote came after counsel Michelle Bach and other staffers told supervisors the only local land use they know of that conflicted with federal law is medical marijuana.

Supervisor Phil Serna, the lone dissenting vote, said his colleagues took an unnecessary action given the county's already "robust code enforcement" against dispensaries.

Serna said the vote effectively bans both marijuana stores and cultivation in the county. He protested it "foreclosed the opportunity" to negotiate zoning rules to accommodate seriously ill medical marijuana users.

The vote came after county staff advised supervisors of a state 2nd District Court of Appeal decision in October that said the city of Long Beach could not license dispensaries because of federal marijuana laws and a District Court ruling in November upholding a city of Riverside ban on pot stores.

In addition, supervisors had an Oct. 7 press release by California's four U.S. attorneys that announced enforcement efforts "aimed at curtailing the large, for-profit marijuana industry that has developed" in California in violation of U.S. law.

Supervisors also faced a procession of angry speakers Tuesday, including people saying they used marijuana for cancer or pain. One, Dr. Davis Allen, a physician who recommends cannabis, charged supervisors were violating the rights of voters who passed the 1996 Proposition 215 medical marijuana law.

"If the California citizens voted to make marijuana medicine, it's your duty to facilitate that," Allen said.

Orangevale resident Jeanne Larsson, who runs A Therapeutic Alternative dispensary in the city of Sacramento, said the county only enabled a deluge of unregulated pot clubs by failing to accept a limited number of dispensaries and impose operating rules as the city did.

"Your lack of attention and fear of regulation helped create an atmosphere where not-so-responsible collectives (dispensaries) could thrive," Larsson said.

County officials said Wednesday that only seven dispensaries remain open in the incorporated region. They are the Common Roots Collective on 52nd Avenue, Elevated Collective on 65th Street, Touch of Earth on Auburn Boulevard, Herbal Connoisseur on Kitty Lane, Kingston Wellness on Sunrise Boulevard, Magnolia Wellness on Greenback Lane and Arcade Health and Wellness on El Camino Avenue.

County lawsuits for zoning violations are pending against Herbal Connoisseur and Magnolia Wellness, and Arcade Health and Wellness is due to close by court order Monday, officials said.

*hxxp://tinyurl.com/875ertm*


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## Roddy (Dec 13, 2011)

*Officials said medical marijuana outlets were never permitted under county zoning laws. But that didn't stop as many as 99 dispensaries from opening in the past two years.*

I've said it a few times, it's this kind of action that makes for trouble and bad press. 

*"If the California citizens voted to make marijuana medicine, it's your duty to facilitate that," Allen said.*

Well, no, it's the voters' jobs to make the law what they want and not work around it. In other words (Hal), They shouldn't have settled on what they could get?????

(puts on his nomax)


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## NorCalHal (Dec 14, 2011)

Roddy, Roddy, Roddy....not understanding the program...again.....

I sure am glad you take such an interest in Cali's MMJ laws.

So, the City of Sac allows dispensaries. They are licensed and regulated.

The county had no such regulations and it was an open field. So, anyone and everyone opened up dispensaries out of city limits.

The influx of dispenaries forced the County of Sac to come up with rules and regulations, and simply put, they just decided to outlaw them, for better or worse.

Me personally, could care less. It is up to each county/city to decide if they want to allow dospensaries in thier area. It is up to the city/county to amend zoning laws to reflect thier decision.
Sac county finally came up with regulations. Too bad it was to just ban them instead of regulate them, but I am sure this makes you happy Roddy.

Your last comment shows lack of knowledge of our MMJ laws....again. And alas, I am tired of explainging our laws to folks that will just not get it.

Good try at getting me fired up....but I have bigger fish to fry.


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## Roddy (Dec 14, 2011)

First, Hal, how can this make me happy?? You keep pretending I am the bad guy here because your state can't play by the rules. What? You yourself are the one that kept telling me how we passed the laws....

So, you're saying the city said it's ok, but the county said no?? Now, why do you suppose they said no instead of reaping the big tax income generated?? And tell me, weren't you all allowed to have a say in this or was this passed without your ability to voice opinion?? See, I recall saying these things get passed without our say and all I heard back was we voters screwed up....so which is it?? 

And you're correct, I only know what I read...which is what everyone else knows...right??? Back to that perception again??? But it seems to me that the official making the statement that the county never allowed dispensaries must be mistaken, if your statement is true?

Not really trying to irk you, Hal!


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## Hick (Dec 14, 2011)

each municipality or county, has the ability to ban dispensaries. "WITHOUT" a vote by the public. It's called County Commissioners and city council.... it can even be accomplished without a public hearing/input/discussion. Commissioners/councilmen simply vote amongst themselves, behind closed doors. Like in Washington...


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## tcbud (Dec 14, 2011)

Shasta County....or was it the city of Redding, outlawed dispensary's the first of December.  The price of pot has gone up from $800 to $1000 a pound up to hitting $2500 according to the local news network (this in two weeks from the ban).  Same will happen in Sac County too, makes it hard if you don't grow or cant grow.  Now crime will go up, very sad.

Maybe it is a conspiracy to close up all the medical dispensary's in time for the federal government to make it legal to sell and the big pharmaceutical company's can get in on a clear playing field.  Paranoid thinking goes well with good reefer.

(The last statement is said in humor, or......is it?)


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## Roddy (Dec 14, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> each municipality or county, has the ability to ban dispensaries. "WITHOUT" a vote by the public. It's called County Commissioners and city council.... it can even be accomplished without a public hearing/input/discussion. Commissioners/councilmen simply vote amongst themselves, behind closed doors. Like in Washington...




:yeahthat: but when I suggested this, I was told we MI voters accepted what we could....however, you do have a right to voice opinion and to even make motions at city council meetings...around here at least.


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## Roddy (Dec 14, 2011)

tcbud said:
			
		

> Shasta County....or was it the city of Redding, outlawed dispensary's the first of December.  The price of pot has gone up from $800 to $1000 a pound up to hitting $2500 according to the local news network (this in two weeks from the ban).  Same will happen in Sac County too, makes it hard if you don't grow or cant grow.  Now crime will go up, very sad.
> 
> Maybe it is a conspiracy to close up all the medical dispensary's in time for the federal government to make it legal to sell and the big pharmaceutical company's can get in on a clear playing field.  *Paranoid thinking goes well with good reefer.*
> 
> (The last statement is said in humor, or......is it?)



:rofl: :rofl:


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## Roddy (Dec 14, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> each municipality or county, has the ability to ban dispensaries. "WITHOUT" a vote by the public. It's called County Commissioners and city council.... it can even be accomplished without a public hearing/input/discussion. Commissioners/councilmen simply vote amongst themselves, behind closed doors. Like in Washington...




Heading that way in a few weeks, Hick, how's the snow situation?? And Hal, I may make it all the way to Cali...my card good there?? I was told it is in Vegas, will be interesting to find out, and to see how they work!


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

tcbud said:
			
		

> Shasta County....or was it the city of Redding, outlawed dispensary's the first of December.  The price of pot has gone up from $800 to $1000 a pound up to hitting $2500 according to the local news network (this in two weeks from the ban).  Same will happen in Sac County too, makes it hard if you don't grow or cant grow.  Now crime will go up, very sad.
> 
> Maybe it is a conspiracy to close up all the medical dispensary's in time for the federal government to make it legal to sell and the big pharmaceutical company's can get in on a clear playing field.  Paranoid thinking goes well with good reefer.
> 
> (The last statement is said in humor, or......is it?)


 
My City/County has a ban also.

I saw the same news story about the price of herb going up, and I gotta say that is the biggest lie yet. How they come up with this is crazy.
Around my parts, Herb price is at a ALL TIME low. Seriously crazy, and I see it driving folks out of the biz like crazy. I have never in my years seen the price of all grades so cheap, quite unbelievable.

I do see the price going up to in price for sure, but we won't see that until Juneish. I do believe that it will go back to the price range of about 5 years ago or so, as a drought is coming this summer, I see it forming.


And yes TC...they are setting up for the big takeover...believe that....and New Jersey will lead the way.


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## orangesunshine (Dec 15, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> each municipality or county, has the ability to ban dispensaries. "WITHOUT" a vote by the public. It's called County Commissioners and city council.... it can even be accomplished without a public hearing/input/discussion. Commissioners/councilmen simply vote amongst themselves, behind closed doors. Like in Washington...




edumacate me in govt 101 please if i am misunderstanding something here---fed law trumps state law---state law trumps county and city law---in turn making it legal to grow with a proper medical recommendation from a doctor under the state guidelines---forget the dispensaries cause they were never included in prop 215---counties and cities only have control of opening or closing dispensaries and increasing or decreasing the plant count from the state guideline---if a city or county does not have a regulation in tact than state guidelines are the fall back---cities and counties do not have the power to re-write prop 215 at their whim and take away the state right to grow with a recommendation regardless of a city or county banning a dispensary---si or no


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## Hick (Dec 15, 2011)

first of all OS, I 'despise' the politic process.A sham of the supposed "of the people, for the people, and by the people"...


> cities and counties do not have the power to re-write prop 215 at their whim


  Let me ask you this, ever been in a 'dry county'??  
They may not be able to "re-write" it, but they might be able to 'regulate' you out of it. Start imposing regulations, requirements, "permits/licenses", or standards that must be implemented. 
  CA has several 'different' regulations, per different municipalities/counties already. e.g. "99 plants", "100 sq. ft", "no exposed outdoor grows", ect. don't they?  Couldn't it very well be set at 3 plants, or at 3 sq. ft.?  A $1000 permit?  $5000 permit?


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

I'd not be surprised at just what powers the PTB hold.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> I sure am glad you take such an interest in Cali's MMJ laws.



My friend, you must understand that ALL of the USA "take such an interest in Cali's MMJ laws". You'd be amazed how often Cali is brought up in discussions at board meetings....here in lil ol MI!


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## Herm (Dec 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Heading that way in a few weeks, Hick, how's the snow situation?? And Hal, I may make it all the way to Cali...my card good there?? I was told it is in Vegas, will be interesting to find out, and to see how they work!



Last I checked Michigan was the only state that honored other states medical cards.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

Not sure, Herm, but a friend in Vegas told me my card would be honored in Vegas....she may have meant I'd be issued a card though, I never asked details! Will be interesting to find out! Thinking about it and knowing how the system works here though, unless they hand you a card in person at the tie of visit, I'd not have a card until my next visit (and then it'd have expired LMAO).


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> First, Hal, how can this make me happy?? You keep pretending I am the bad guy here because your state can't play by the rules. What? You yourself are the one that kept telling me how we passed the laws....


You are the bad guy....you believe what you read and you believe the glass is half empty.
We fully play by the rules my ill informed friend. When there is no ruleset, we rock it out till they make one.



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> So, you're saying the city said it's ok, but the county said no?? Now, why do you suppose they said no instead of reaping the big tax income generated?? And tell me, weren't you all allowed to have a say in this or was this passed without your ability to voice opinion?? See, I recall saying these things get passed without our say and all I heard back was we voters screwed up....so which is it??


 
Ahhh...read again my friend...I didn't say the county said no. The County had no regulations in place. The influx of dispensaries forced the county to make regulations, and the County board decided to ban them. There was plenty of opposition, but alas, it is up to a few folks to decide, it was never put to a Vote. It was approved by conservitive folks like yourself.
If it was put to a vote, it would have passed and there would be dispensaries in the county. 



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> And you're correct, I only know what I read...which is what everyone else knows...right??? Back to that perception again??? But it seems to me that the official making the statement that the county never allowed dispensaries must be mistaken, if your statement is true?


 

The County had NO CHOICE but to allow dispensaries, as they are legal in California. Dang son, how many times I gotta explain this.
They are legal in the State...period. It is up to each City/County to put up bans or put regulations on them. Simple as that. If a City/County does not have regulations or bans against them, then it is open to anyone to open one.
So yes, the county official was wrong.

What is happening is all cali cities/counties are being forced to either regulate, or ban dispensary operations. This is a good thing. It is forcing folks to talk about it and make a decision.

Now, the areas that have put bans in place are under fire from support groups. This is leading to petitions, which will lead to a Vote by the residents.
As it sits now, the citizens of the areas effected are at the mercy of a handful of conservitive politicians that just decided to place a ban on it because of thier perception of MMJ.
What needs to happen is a vote by the people of each area. This is what is going to happen.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

*You are the bad guy....you believe what you read and you believe the glass is half empty.* Oh my, then there sure are a lot of us "bad guys" out here....YIKES!

*We fully play by the rules my ill informed friend. When there is no ruleset, we rock it out till they make one.* This reminds me of the kid asking the mom if he can go out and play, she says no, so he asks the dad....


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

*Ahhh...read again my friend...I didn't say the county said no. The County had no regulations in place. The influx of dispensaries forced the county to make regulations, and the County board decided to ban them. There was plenty of opposition, but alas, it is up to a few folks to decide, it was never put to a Vote. It was approved by conservitive folks like yourself.
If it was put to a vote, it would have passed and there would be dispensaries in the county*

Did the county say no in the end?? So I am correct, then? Seems you have issues with my way of thinking...instead of trying to work around the way things are and allowing for conservative thinking, why not work hand in hand?


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

*The County had NO CHOICE but to allow dispensaries, as they are legal in California. Dang son, how many times I gotta explain this.
They are legal in the State...period. It is up to each City/County to put up bans or put regulations on them. Simple as that. If a City/County does not have regulations or bans against them, then it is open to anyone to open one.
So yes, the county official was wrong.*

So, if I don't lock my doors, it's ok to walk in my house as you please?? I thought following the laws meant the ones in place, not making them as you go and hoping no one gets mad.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

*Now, the areas that have put bans in place are under fire from support groups. This is leading to petitions, which will lead to a Vote by the residents.
As it sits now, the citizens of the areas effected are at the mercy of a handful of conservitive politicians that just decided to place a ban on it because of thier perception of MMJ.
What needs to happen is a vote by the people of each area. This is what is going to happen.*

I'd think following the laws would help the perception, which would paint us in a better light, which would be helpful in swaying the PTB!


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

I'll add that something Orange posted is telling...*forget the dispensaries cause they were never included in prop 215* Something tells me you voters out there forgot to include this and are now working around that problem. Something also tells me this has been a big part of the problem. I even see the mentality "they didn't say no specifically, so it must be yes".

And Hal, none of this is an attack, just pointing out how it looks to us who believe everything we read  Truly, we're all on the same side, hope there's room for this "bad guy"....keep in mind the majority are much of the same mind as me and only know what the press writes (although you paint me this way, I'm sure you realize this is far from true lol,)


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## orangesunshine (Dec 15, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> first of all OS, I 'despise' the politic process.A sham of the supposed "of the people, for the people, and by the people"...
> 
> i agree---not sure if i have ever been to a "dry county" and really never gave them much thought cause i wasn't dry---i do understand the "regulate you out" process and do get it
> 
> ...


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## pcduck (Dec 15, 2011)

You Roddy just don't get it and never will. This happens most the time when they pass new laws.





> You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to NorCalHal again.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> *You are the bad guy....you believe what you read and you believe the glass is half empty.* Oh my, then there sure are a lot of us "bad guys" out here....YIKES!
> 
> *We fully play by the rules my ill informed friend. When there is no ruleset, we rock it out till they make one.* This reminds me of the kid asking the mom if he can go out and play, she says no, so he asks the dad....


 
I love how you pretend to know what is happening in our State...love it.

You really don't see the big picture. Think about it man, it is just like Strip clubs. They are legal in Cali, but some areas don't allow it. So, they had to change zoning alws and amend codes to disallow them.

Same thing. The movement is forcing areas to either regualte, or ban.

When they ban them, that starts the legal process in that particular area. Not only for the opponents, but also, more importantly, the activists to step up and fight the change in court. This is happening everywhere.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> *The County had NO CHOICE but to allow dispensaries, as they are legal in California. Dang son, how many times I gotta explain this.*
> *They are legal in the State...period. It is up to each City/County to put up bans or put regulations on them. Simple as that. If a City/County does not have regulations or bans against them, then it is open to anyone to open one.*
> *So yes, the county official was wrong.*
> 
> So, if I don't lock my doors, it's ok to walk in my house as you please?? I thought following the laws meant the ones in place, not making them as you go and hoping no one gets mad.


 
I thought you were smarter then this.....

There was no law in place at that time. Once the ban was put in place, they all closed on thier own. I trip on your statement. Wow.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

No law in place doesn't mean it's open to do what you wish. when people start acting as if it does, they are then forcing laws to be made, most times against what you want. My guess, and I could be wrong, is that many places would rather be worked with than worked.


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## pcduck (Dec 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> No law in place doesn't mean it's open to do what you wish. when people start acting as if it does, they are then forcing laws to be made, most times against what you want. My guess, and I could be wrong, is that many places would rather be worked with than worked.



Yes it does, the same thing is happening here with the internet cafes(gambling places) they passed the law, they opened up all over the place then the counties/cities/ townships make their regulations.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

Part two applies there, then, laws are made to stop what was obviously not meant to happen. However, had there been workings between the two sides, things may have been different. In other words, "mavericks" might not always be the best approach.


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## nvthis (Dec 15, 2011)

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

"A"[email protected]%$#&$%^%@$&#%^--------->"B"

Ahem... If getting from "A" to "B" were easy, MI would have gone first...  

Compulsively and obsessively trying to impose your personal beliefs and unwanted, unsolicited long distance (2,250 miles) opinions and arguements about stuff happening in Cali to people that are _actually from Cali_? Well, that's just inherently, utterly, totally, undeniably and unexcusably frickin' retarded. 

Ok.. Off to work then....


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

Hey NV....it's not my beliefs, my views or anything.....I think you too misunderstand who the enemy is! You may want to think just who is trying....no IMPOSING these laws upon you, then you'll understand I'm just voicing how it's seen from afar. And you know what, Washington is even further afar than I...

Retarded, such a harsh way to say wrong, really slams the true "impaired".


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## Herm (Dec 15, 2011)

There is no debating that the federal government says a large amount of you guys are breaking the rules.  After watching 3 episodes of weed wars I'm just waiting for the fed's to kick in harborsides doors.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

:yeahthat: 

From the looks, very little is being done to paint MMJ in a better light, which means we're always going to be outlaws. I'm guessing also that not all the noise is purely coming because TPTB are against MMJ, but also because of public complaints.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

Herm said:
			
		

> There is no debating that the federal government says a large amount of you guys are breaking the rules.  After watching 3 episodes of weed wars I'm just waiting for the fed's to kick in harborsides doors.


 

Well, I'm a gambler, and I would bet the farm that the Feds don't touch Harborside. It's a fight they don't even want.

btw, there has only been 2 episodes, #3 comes on tonight.

Everyone on these boards here are breaking the Feds "rules". At least some of us are standing up and pushing back.

If Roddy had his way, we would all send letters and play nice nice and it will all work out for the greater good.

Don't you understand how laws change bro? Playing nice nice only works if your tryin' to open a popsicle stand, not when it comes to demanding that the goverment recognize that folks will not change and it is THEY who need to change.

Fargin crazy man. Don't you remember Alcohol prohibition? Was it all the kind folks sending letters and voting that repealed it? Heck no.
It was the deluge of "speak easy's" that opened and fed the demand. It was the guy who had the balls to open one and risk his freedom to give you your drink.
It was the cats who started a criminal enterprise bootlegging. You call them criminals....I call them hero's.

Bottom line, prohibition ended because the goverment saw that folks were going to do it anyway and all that it did was make honest folks criminals and criminals rich.


You know....all this crap doesn't matter anyway. It will be legal. Well, "Medical" MJ will be legal, not recreationally. It will be reclassified to Schedule 2, therefore allowing it to be officially "Prescribed", opening the door to Pharma taking control.
You laugh,but that is the way it is going to go down.

Whole 'nother rant there.

What I am tryin' to get at Roddy is simple, and maybe you can understand.

MI has had MMJ since what, Dec '08? all of 3 years.
Lucky for you, you had Cali to look at. All other States have CLEAR regulations on MMJ because of the chaos here in Cali.
I think we can agree on that.

Cali has had MMJ since 1996. 15 years man. Don't you think we should have a good set of regulations by now? Well, we don't. Hence the chaos...duh.
Some areas in Cali, Like Oakland, SF have CLEAR regualtions in place, and you hear of no bad stories coming from there.

It is the other MAJORITY of cali that does not have clear regulations in place, after all this friggin time. 

People are sick of it. So, no local regualtions....we will follow State Law.
Some cities rolled with it, some are fighting tooth and nail. 

So, don't try to educate me on what I see and live everyday. If we are all on the same team, then listen to what californians have to say, 'specially on a MJ forum.

If you told me something about MI MMJ, I would tend to believe you over a FOX news story........

But then again, I think the glass is half full


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

I hear you Hal, and I do understand. However, I disagree that breaking the law for change is the only choice and I, like others, see it hurting as much as helping. Maybe if all other choices had been tried before simply being mavericks would have helped, but a bit late now, right?

At least you do now agree that our laws were in part because of your state's actions!! This has been a hard point all along! I feel we're making progress here! :dancing:


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## HabitualConcepts (Dec 15, 2011)

Yep, don't really know too much, but with all the back and forth at this point Amsterdam seems like the best choice.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

Spain...Amsterdam seems to be backtracking!!


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I hear you Hal, and I do understand. However, I disagree that breaking the law for change is the only choice and I, like others, see it hurting as much as helping.


 
That is the point at which you are not understanding. No one is breaking the law. Of all the dispensaries that shut down or got closed down by LEO, no one is going to jail. Why? No one broke any laws. They broke "Moral Code".

People opened up shop because they were following the law and felt comfortable enough to do so. Everyone has a team of Lawyers telling them it is OK. Believe me.

Now, because of the slow acting cities/counties, they are just now passing bans and limits.
They are getting shut down after the fact man.

Now all the cats that got shut down are suing in court, forcing the issue.


Like MI, there are people that ran these clubs illegally. There has been a couple of cases of charges files. But with any business, there are going to be folks who push the limits. 
I have read a few articals about clubs in MI that got shut down too my friend, and I don't point fingers and lump all MI folks together, neither should you.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

I think you get all bristly because I talk about your state and it's bad side....obviously, there's good as well. I don't really lump all together either, just seems pointless to continually say "of course we all know there are bad clubs just as good"...that's a given. 

However, how many good press articles have you seen about Cali's dispensaries??? Yep, the issue is the bad stuff, this is why I talk about it, and no, not dismissing the good.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

I like the fact there's lawsuits going forward, that's cool. I bet if those who are suing hadn't been shut down, no lawsuit though.....reacting to the issue puts us on the defense, we need to be on the offense more. Something tells me everyone had an idea this wasn't entirely legal, maybe some lawsuits before the ban would have been a good choice as well. We can push them without breaking laws.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> However, how many good press articles have you seen about Cali's dispensaries??? Yep, the issue is the bad stuff, this is why I talk about it, and no, not dismissing the good.


 
About as many as I have seen on MI clubs....lol.

Actually, I see them all the time, be it in Bay area newspapers and even Sac.

We actually have a TV show about Cali dispensaries in a good light....it's called Weed Wars.

Of course, some folks choose to point at the folks running the club and pick on them because of the way the look or "dress", but thats easy.
It's much harder to see the fact that the kid with Gran Mal was helped greatly by that one particular club being allowed to operate.


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## HabitualConcepts (Dec 15, 2011)

lol backtracking more like hopeful backpacking! Who's coming?


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

LOL, even as some see weed wars as a good thing, many will say it just points out we're a bunch of stoners looking to be high all the time. I am also glad you have good press about the dispensaries there, wish nat news wold pick it up...what a dream LOL

MI clubs are illegal as far as I know, none seem to be closing though. I think they're watching Cali again lol I've had this very talk with my lawyer (who also owns a shop) and he's tried to bring good light of all the business, but...so I do understand that is a tough problem as well.

Never watched WW, but if they could show the helpful side now and then, it would really help! Ah, Cali's are Cali's...dress and personal appearance doesn't sway me either way. I mean, I have a gay son who likes to dress awful weird, so I am thinking I'm pretty accepting!  That shouldn't sway people...but I know it does!


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

HabitualConcepts said:
			
		

> lol backtracking more like hopeful backpacking! Who's coming?



:rofl: The long swim is a deterrent!


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## orangesunshine (Dec 15, 2011)

*roddy*---luv ya man but you do need to pull your head out of the sand---all dispensaries and their function are illegal under 215 in ca because there is no provision for getting the medicine to the people---oakland took the lead in solving that problem by opening a dispensary and yes it is illegal under fed law but legal under city of oakland ordinance---most other cities and counties throughout the state sat on their hands in tweeking their own ordinances in the shadow of 215 and are now being forced to get into the game because the people deferred to state law and pushed the envelope as they did in oakland by opening dispensaries---

prohibition is the closest correlation to our situation but falls short where the 2faced powers to be of the time were doing plenty of drinking and really are not as openly engaging in the consumption of the hippy lettuce---

most definitely laws are being broken on all levels of fed, state, and city---this is the only way for them to be changed and will remain chaotic until everyone is on the same page---the only way the fed can get into the game at this point is to go after the dispensaries to pave way for their horse which is BIG PHARMA---

had 215 included a commercial vehicle to get the meds to the people the issue of dispensaries would be mute---the cities would have a stronger common thread pushing the fight entirely focused against the fed and BIG PHARMA---


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

When you all were working with the state to get this prop on the ballot, why wasn't dispensaries brought into the equation?? 

I hear you, too, Orange, but the same question arises, when you knew these dispensaries weren't in the language, why didn't everyone work with their county /city on all lvls that pertain to this?? IDK, maybe some tried, but no one has said this, just that they saw the opportunity for opening dispensaries...


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

I'm going to try to tackle how it all came to be......

Mind you, No other state had even thought about passing a law like we did, so there was nothing to go by but a few simple words and the will of the voters.

As I stated, we continue to fight for what other states now take for granted.

Prop 215. This was a proposition that gathered enough sigs to be put on the State Ballot in 1996. It was simple enough. Here is the exact text.




			
				Prop215 said:
			
		

> SECTION 1. Section 11362.5 is added to the Health and Safety Code, to read:
> _ 11362.5. (a) This section shall be known and may be cited as the Compassionate Use Act of 1996.
> (b)(1) The people of the State of California hereby find and declare that the purposes of the Compassionate Use Act of 1996 are as follows:
> (A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the person's health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine, or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.
> ...




Nothing stated about distribution. What did we know? All we KNEW was that if you had a MMJ rec, that you were not subject to State Criminal charges.

Day 2. Peron opened up the first club in SF on market. It was not called a dispensary, it was called a collective. I still am not sure where the term "dispensary" came from.
Peron saw it as his newly passed right to ensure folks had a way of getting thier herb.
So, of course, numerous lawsuits later, the Cali Senate bill 420, to deal with the legality of what was going on. This was in 2003, 7 years after 215 passed.

SB 420 recognized that Californians have the RIGHT to collectively cultivate MJ. That was a HUGE step. A step all other States take for granted. So, your welcome.

_11362.775. Qualified patients, persons with valid identification cards, and the designated primary caregivers of qualified patients and persons with identification cards, who associate within the State of California in order *collectively or cooperatively to cultivate marijuana for medical purposes*, shall not solely on the basis of that fact be subject to state criminal sanctions_


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

Who brought about the 420 bill (love that, perfect)?


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

That one line right there confirmed that we are in the right. 

If you understand business, then in a collective, everyone contributes something, be it herb, money or sevices. That is the basis of a collective.

So, off we go. Collectives start to take off in 2004.

Oh no! It's out of control. These darn "collectives" are making money! How can the State get paid, since it's LEGAL staewise and we can't shut them down? Let's start making regualtions and taxing them.

Now we are in 2008. The Attorney General of Cali, Jerry Brown, Top Cop for the State, sends out a set of guidelines for everyone to follow, to stop the confusion.

I will link this read. Alot of stuff.

hXXp://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/press/pdfs/n1601_medicalmarijuanaguidelines.pdf

Here is where officially, everyone is told to pay taxes.

This is also where we were told what EXCATALLY we had to do to be complient with the State as far as all paperwork.

This is also where we were told that we had to operate as a Non-Profit.
Before 2008, we didn't have to be. How you like that.

So, from the top cop of Cali himself, he recognized that collectives can and will operate legally.

Guess what happened next? Obama took office.
Ok, so now we have a clear set of guidlines from the Top Cop himself. And we have a New president who gave direction to his Justice dept that they are to leave Medical States alone.

An Industry was born.


So Roddy, this struggle may be new to you, but it is an old one for us.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 15, 2011)

SB420 was a bill passed by the Senate which actually got reversed in court on a few iitems, like plant count. SB420 tried to restrict plant count to 6 mature/12 immature. This was overruled allready. Come to find out, the Senete cannot change a voter approved measure.
haha.


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## Roddy (Dec 15, 2011)

Yeah, but who brought about the bill??


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## orangesunshine (Dec 15, 2011)

not sure who brought the bill---but now if you weren't confused yet---the cities and counties are struggling with putting their spin on interpreting what will happen in their little village by banning, setting limits, rules and regulations thru ordinances---


everyone is breaking the law---it just depends on who is interpreting it---


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## Roddy (Dec 17, 2011)

I'm not really asking who personally....just if it was brought up by the public or govt. I'm guessing govt.

Thanks for the info, Hal and Orange!


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## Sl4ck3rThcGrower (Dec 17, 2011)

I must say that both your opinions are valid "enuf" tho i sway to one side more. Doesnt everyone love the word game, government loves to make bills that they can fight over later. What can i say other than California is just where im from and i didnt even smoke in 1996, but i thank others for their efforts and i have litterally while chilling in a "Club" in Sacramento met a Lobbist for Cali lawmakers who has aids and collected alot of thoes signatures himself. Oh yeah they MISSED a OPEN club "Valley Health Options, 1421 Auburn Blvd. gotta give it to them


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## HemperFi (Dec 17, 2011)

It's all about the almighty dollar. I was born in Cali (Oakland) I grew up there -- I started smoking weed in Cali -- and I never stopped. I don't live in Cali now -- too many people, cars and regulations, etc. I am not on a crusade to get weed legal. Hell, I don't want it legal. I have been smoking regularly for over forty years -- strictly for recreational purposes and because I like being high. I have never even been ticketed for illegal use of weed, but if I got busted, I'd fall to my knees in front of the judge and cry my eyes out. I'd swear I smoked weed because of PTSD and depression, and I'd tell the judge if it wasn't for MJ I'd would have been one of those people you hear about visiting McDonalds with an AK-47. I'd get probation, and I'd continue to smoke weed every day, but not for medicinal reasons. A couple of years ago I went and got a percription, so I could buy weed from the dispenseries here where I live, but I never sent the paper work into the state. The percription itself worked for a year, and I could get another if I wanted. I do qualify, but all this legal stuff scares me. I don't want to be on some government list. I grow my own now, and there is no way I'd do it legally. I don't do it for profit, but I do sell some on occassion. I supply a man who truly needs it for his pain issues, and the extra income really comes in handy. One in a thousand people with MMj cards actually use MJ for med reasons -- you know I'm right. If there is ONE dispensery (anywhere) that isn't in it for the money -- I'll kiss your bum. It irks me to see this MMJ thing being used as the main reason for legalizing weed. I see it is as a basic human right and a persuit of my happiness. The fight over legalizing weed is all about money -- who's going to profit? I'm betting on the drug companies who will eventually be given permits to grow government weed -- and the rich will get richer.... So what's new?

Peace


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## Roddy (Dec 17, 2011)

*but all this legal stuff scares me. I don't want to be on some government list.*

Although I am certain I am on a list that my state has, I don't believe that list is shared with any law enforcement agency, the application I filled out had a line that said no info would be shared without checking the box (or something to that effect, not exact wording).

I have been legal for 2 years, I know people who have been legal since the start, I know of only one that's been visited, and that was because he was growing outside and the choppers saw his garden. After looking it over, they gave tips on how to better secure it and left him alone! I was told by my lawyer I should call the police and tell them I'd like my operation inspected...no chance. He told me he's asked several times, no one comes out!

They're not bothering with us legal folk, but the busts for illegal activity is still going....so that could be another way to get on a list, my friend!!!


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## NorCalHal (Dec 18, 2011)

HemperFi said:
			
		

> If there is ONE dispensery (anywhere) that isn't in it for the money -- I'll kiss your bum.


 

Pucker up.

I find alot of your post as condritictory, but I'll tackle this one first.


Harborside. They run totally legit. Not making any profit at all. 

I'll go wash my bum for you.


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## HemperFi (Dec 18, 2011)

Harborside is not transparent -- do you know where the money is going? -- we all hear what they say, and IMO it's all a front for the "business." Multi million dollar business... The contrdiction came about because I lost my connection -- had to get weed somewhere...

Don't you sell weed to Harborside?


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## HemperFi (Dec 18, 2011)

*KISS*

I don't want to argue, but if someone like me (a pot head) is thinking these things, what do you think Mr. Joe conservative is thinking?

Peace


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## NorCalHal (Dec 18, 2011)

All good Hemper...no worries bro. 

Harborsides books are transparent, meaning they are full open with what they make and pay out. No one is getting rich, believe that.
They have 50+ employee's/with health benefits and 401K

They better make money, or they would shut down.

The whole $ issue in peoples minds is thier lack of understanding how a Non-Profit works.


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## Soumyananda (Dec 19, 2011)

They should approve proposal for dispencery. After all its a social work.


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## HemperFi (Dec 19, 2011)

Hal, I do not believe there isn't a skim going on -- there is an offshore account getting fat somewhere -- don't be naieve. I was wondering how much dope (medicine) you are selling (vending) to Harborside every week. I'm not trying to be a a pain or disrespectful in any way -- how does it work? -- do you pay taxes on your income? You say no one is getting rich, and compared to Bill Gates that is probably true, but compared to a veteran living under a bridge -- it isn't true. With all that cash floating around, someone is getting what I would call rich. Just trying to keep it real...

Peace


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## orangesunshine (Dec 19, 2011)

check out how a "non-profit" is set up---all the $$$ goes back into the operation---operating expenses, salaries, benefits, etc...if there is a surplus of $---it gets donated to a charity, the community, or somewhere else---not offshore---think along the line of philanthropy for the excess cash


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## Sl4ck3rThcGrower (Dec 19, 2011)

I could live 5x better if i ran a non-profit business, hahaha


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## orangesunshine (Dec 19, 2011)

yea i hear that---philanthropy is a pretty cool gig if you can get it---:rofl:


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## HemperFi (Dec 19, 2011)

I put it along the lines of Human Nature -- of which I have very little confidence...


Peace


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## ston-loc (Dec 19, 2011)

So skeptical on a well known dispensary dealing with millions in and out yearly, yet we're all getting raped by big biz and banks and our own gov by trillions yearly and people just shrug and ignore it.... Sad sad state this country, and humanity is in..........


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## ston-loc (Dec 19, 2011)

And making a living, and taking care of your employees with benefits isn't "getting rich". Running a business costs money. And people that work there as full time jobs deserve to be paid just the same as any other occupation. Lots of bogus vibes I'm feeling from some replies.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 20, 2011)

HemperFi said:
			
		

> Hal, I do not believe there isn't a skim going on -- there is an offshore account getting fat somewhere -- don't be naieve. I was wondering how much dope (medicine) you are selling (vending) to Harborside every week. I'm not trying to be a a pain or disrespectful in any way -- how does it work? -- do you pay taxes on your income? You say no one is getting rich, and compared to Bill Gates that is probably true, but compared to a veteran living under a bridge -- it isn't true. With all that cash floating around, someone is getting what I would call rich. Just trying to keep it real...
> 
> Peace


 
They say ignorance is bliss........

It's sad to think fellow stoners don't want to and refuse to beleive that folks are really following the law regarding what can be done in cali. Very sad.

I guess it goes to show someones true character if they can't believe someone else could. Remember, just cause you would steal (skim), doesn't mean other people would.

It's easy to sit and write assuptions of what you "think" is happening. It's alot harder to do your homework and make thing happen.

Why would we? I, just like Harborside, pay taxes on all income generated. Why wouldn't I? I can finally show income legally. I like my job.

I know the folks at Harborside personally, and the folks running the show are not about getting rich, they are true hippies man.  I don't think it would be wise to be "skimming" while you are being audited by the IRS for months on end. Pretty hard to skim when they are on you like fly's on ****.

There is no need to skim. You can legally claim a nice salary and have the BEST health insurance and retirement plan. No need to be shady bro.

Understanding how a Non-Profit works is something I am not going to try to explain to you. No one is getting rich.....well maybe Uncle Sam.


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## Herm (Dec 20, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> All good Hemper...no worries bro.
> 
> Harborsides books are transparent, meaning they are full open with what they make and pay out. No one is getting rich, believe that.
> They have 50+ employee's/with health benefits and 401K
> ...



I know exactly how a not for profit works.  I worked for the largest not for profit catholic health care provider in the country (which was way bigger a not for profit than you will EVER work for.).  I knew the salaries of the top guys there and while the business might not be making a profit the owners and people in the top spots were paying themselves a mint.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 20, 2011)

Herm said:
			
		

> I know exactly how a not for profit works.  I worked for the largest not for profit catholic health care provider in the country (which was way bigger a not for profit than you will EVER work for.).  I knew the salaries of the top guys there and while the business might not be making a profit the owners and people in the top spots were paying themselves a mint.


 
Again...people assuming.

Sorry friend, I worked for the largest non profit in the US for 2 years.

So, it does sound like you know how a non profit works. Yes, the top execs/owners can, and do make a good salary. It is perfectly legal too.
In my State, non profit salaries are capped, so the sky isn't the limit.

What you call a "mint", I might call not enough. Some folks are not happy with the old 9-5 work grind and punching the timeclock. Some have better goals in life.


There is a reason that the owners/execs make more then the average worker...it's called stress.
Any monkey can go to work and do as they are told for 8 hours, and those monkeys get a paycheck....and wait patiently for the next one.

Some take the challenge and manage folks and the business, they make alot more.

You sound like the 8 hour paycheck guy and you don't seem happy about it.
Noone to blame but yourself. Some folks have drive.

So, don't pretend to know what I may or may not have done.

Now, I don't work for a non profit....I own one. Big difference my friend.


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## HemperFi (Dec 20, 2011)

I have nothing against someone having ambition. What bothers me is the hypocracy. You are not selling dope to help people -- you are in it for the money -- It is set up as a "non-profit" because that is the only way it would ever be allowed to happen. I have been smoking weed for over 40 years -- I have known plenty of dope dealers -- too many. I never met one who wasn't in it for the money -- DeAngelo is in it for his ego -- and the money. 

Just keeping it real...

a lot of inuendo in some of the statements made.

Peace


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## Herm (Dec 20, 2011)

Wow Norcalhal being a cocky ******* in a thread and everyone ignoring him again?  Would have never guessed.


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## orangesunshine (Dec 20, 2011)

HemperFi said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> a lot of inuendo in some of the statements made.
> 
> Peace




glad to hear that you are using inuendo in making your statement that people are selling dope for profit and not to help ailing conditions


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## NorCalHal (Dec 20, 2011)

Herm said:
			
		

> Wow Norcalhal being a cocky ******* in a thread and everyone ignoring him again?  Would have never guessed.


 
Great retort. 



			
				Herm said:
			
		

> I know exactly how a not for profit works.  I worked for the largest not for profit catholic health care provider in the country (which was way bigger a not for profit than you will EVER work for.).


 
Ya bro....thats not cocky. 

Keep on keepin' on son.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 20, 2011)

HemperFi said:
			
		

> I have nothing against someone having ambition. What bothers me is the hypocracy. You are not selling dope to help people -- you are in it for the money -- It is set up as a "non-profit" because that is the only way it would ever be allowed to happen. I have been smoking weed for over 40 years -- I have known plenty of dope dealers -- too many. I never met one who wasn't in it for the money -- DeAngelo is in it for his ego -- and the money.
> 
> Just keeping it real...
> 
> ...


 
No innuendo man, I'm straight calling you out. Obviously you sell Dope for profit, and you are hating cats that can do it legal.
Just keepin' it really real.



			
				HemperFi said:
			
		

> Still... they do a "blend," we do a cure, and in the show I watched, they seemed to know what their* customers wanted* -- so do we...


 
Ya bud, I got your number.

So, what's hypocritical about any of this? Sounds like we both sell herb for $, but I do it legal, and you don't. So you want to hate on folks that do it legal?

It is like any other job bro. This is just a dream job.


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## NorCalHal (Dec 20, 2011)

I trip on why you cats hate so much on it.

What really baffles me is if most anyone of you had the chance to grow for a living, most of you would ,I would think. Why wouldn't you? 

If your all waiting for full legalization, it ain't going to happen.....ever in the USA.


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## ozzydiodude (Dec 20, 2011)

I believe that most people that grow their own wouldn't try to support theirselves with growing. They know how hard it is just to grow enough to keep theirself in smoke. The thought of growing 10 to 15 times that amount, just to keep them in money is more that they want to take on


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## Roddy (Dec 20, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> I trip on why you cats hate so much on it.
> 
> What really baffles me is if most anyone of you had the chance to grow for a living, most of you would ,I would think. Why wouldn't you?
> 
> If your all waiting for full legalization, it ain't going to happen.....ever in the USA.



:ciao: I'm not hating, bro, need some help out there?


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