# First grow in Promix, 2 weeks in and plants showing rust spots???



## jsmits420 (Sep 27, 2013)

Just like the title says... everything was going good until one plant starting getting some brownish spots on the lowest set of leaves, the 2 larger first leaves. Then, a couple days later I check on them after I watered the day prior at 6.8 and runoff was 6.8, and now 3 or 4 plants have these spots!! I thought it might be the rust mold or something so I hit it all my plants with a light spray of 'Safer' Garden Fungicide which is OMRI listed just in case. But the more I think about it the more I feel like it's a ph issue. If it's in promix, which is basically hydro, should I have it lower than 6.8, like 6.2?? I was going to use this anyways as a preventative but sure enough with my luck my plants are acting funky!  I'll attach pictures (Actually I can't I'll link my journal since it won't let me http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66265.) And more on the setup- 4x2 tent; temps 78-80 ; humidity 40-50 ; 465cfm fan sucking out of the top ; passive intakes at the bottom; and 2 fans inside, one pointed at the lights and one oscillating pointed a the plants. All the plants are dancin. It's about time to feed anyways as I only added about 3 parts HF to 10-12 parts Promix just to start the seedlings off in and give them that extra mychorriaze(sp) for root development. Oh, I also added a little lime to help buffer ph, as recommended by other Promix growers. I don't know if they're just deficient and the ph is off, ready for food, deficient in cal/mag which I have an actual cal/mag or epsom salt, or if the little bit of nutrients in the HF can't be absorbed because of the ph or what? Any input would be grrrrreat because this is really bothering me. I'm stumped. I had perfectly green plants a few days ago and BAM ugly rust spots ironically after watering. No bueno. Should I flush them, feed, and hit with some cal/mag? Or is it something worse......


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## jsmits420 (Sep 27, 2013)

Fungus gnats.... great. I swear this made me lose my last crop the dirt I got from my local shop has GOT to be infested. I hope I can save these


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 28, 2013)

Hey just finished looking over your threads and first I would say, quit panicking. I don't think its as bad as it seems. The first problem that I see appears to be necrosis on the first set of true leaves, and I suspect that is from older damage from keeping them too wet. I don't see any new necrosis on the younger leaves so I think they will grow out of it. They will probably look worse before they look better so try to ignore the damage on those lower leaves as they will die off as the plant grows anyway.

The more serious issue at this point is the fungus gnats. They are not a dire issue at this point but definitely something you want to get in check. The neem oil that is dilutable is a good option for them but not the best option because they really don't feed on the plants as much as on detritus in the soil. But when they run out of stuff in the soil to chew on, they will begin attacking the roots. I would mix up a light solution of neem and water and add that to all of the cups at the next watering. You shouldn't have to do much with PH for that unless it is waay out from 6.5 after mixing it.

You also need to get some sensor pads if you don't have any as they are great for eliminating the flyers that get around the plants. I would set several of these around and in between the plants, trying to set them on the cups so that they are at the same level as the soil but not so close to the leaves to get them stuck to the pads. Eliminating the flyers eliminates the egg layers that lay eggs in the soil.

I think your plants are getting closer to needing some nutes but I have found the best way to tell is to look at the cotyledons(round seed leaves) and see if they are yellowing yet. Once mine begin to get real yellow and start wilting, that is when I begin a very mild feeding solution. Now One thing here that you will have to be careful of; you already added some worm castings which the mycho should be already chelating and making available to the plants, so that will affect how you proceed with feeding(if the cotyledons are yellowing yet). 

I would begin with a 1/4 strength nute regimen for starters (but I would wait at least a few days more so that the neem, which you need to add at the next scheduled watering, will have time to process into the soil). 
At this point, don't overreact and get in a hurry to try to fix too many things at once. Doing too much is as bad as doing nothing, sometimes worse. Be patient and focus on one issue at a time and I think they will survive


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## jsmits420 (Sep 28, 2013)

Thanks for replying, I popped one out of the cup last night to see if there was any root damage or any larvae and it was SO rootbound. Whoever can keep their plants in solo's for 3 weeks props. MY roots were growing back up to the top to get the fresh water I'm assuming lol. But my plants were wilting because of it I haven't been overwatering since that was addressed initially. So I x planted to 1 gallons last night and gave a slight (1/4 strength) dose of nutes and they're already green'ing back up a little today. The part that was bugging me, was that it was 'spreading' ...but it could simply be what you stated. The overwater was just starting to show affect to those plants. But I have the neem oil, and I've got my fan CRANKED up to the max, tent is completely sealed, and I've got screens catching any adult gnats that were in the tent because my tent is completely sucked in lol. So my theory is, let the ones with wings get sucked into my trap, literally, and address the larvae IF they show signs of being present. But from the outer edges I saw no larvae and it seems that just the leaves that look bad will stay bad. I know you can't fix a leaf and to check new growth, and all new growth this morning was pointing to the sky happy and green. I think the nutes helped, along with the up pot. But it'll take a few days to adjust after the transplant so I'll keep my eye on them and post pics when or if they're ok/worse.  I'll just write off those ugly *** leaves lol. My main concern, since I lost my last entire crop of medicine was to powdery mold. I battled it for 2 weeks and just restarted. Plus I was in the middle of moving so whatever. Took my losses. But thank you for your reply I WAS freaking out but I think I just need to sit back and relax and let this run it's course. I believe I caught it early enough as I still haven't even found enough adults to get past 2 hands yet and I was letting them dry out pretty hard core the past week. But I'll keep everyone posted, and I'll go ahead and try a little neem oil in the next watering. Roughly 3 days since I gave a little nutes last night along with some pre sprayed promix with thrive alive b1 to help aid in the transplant.


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## Rosebud (Sep 28, 2013)

Good luck Jsmits, i know nothing about ph, so I am just saying...green mojo to you and your girls.


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## jsmits420 (Sep 28, 2013)

Thank you very much Rose. Been a constant battle the last few grow(attempts) and with the crap dirt around here and dealing with gnats and mold CONSTANTLY it makes me want to get wet because the supply of good dirt in the south is minimal. At least in my area. I still have some straight promix, about half a bale..if this grow goes south I'll try my promix with NOTHING from that store and if I'm still having issues, I'm going hydro. It shouldn't be causing me this much stress it's supposed to be fun right?  And I love it I've just been struck with bad luck lately :/


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## jsmits420 (Sep 28, 2013)

Just sucks, all the money invested, had a batch or SS infected, because of the store.Last bag of HF was crap..Every bag of dirt they have is crap. And this isn't coming from just me but multiple growers and even a rep from this area. And I'm not making excuses or trying to place blame on anyone as that's not my style. But if your supply is out of date and been sitting on the shelves for waaaay too long and you have BUGS flying everywhere in the store, probably need to change something. Sorry for the rant.  Just frustrated and in pain. Just want things to go right! Probably my fault for buying from the store when I notice critters flying everywhere. Literally everywhere.  Makes me really feel like an idiot lol. Just searched hydro real quick and res temps seem to be the determining factor. Might just go all out and get a chiller and throw this dirt away.


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 28, 2013)

I'm surprised to hear that they have that much root growth at this point but that is good. It sounds like they may be getting underway. I typically don't leave mine in the cups for more than 2 weeks myself before I transplant. 

It seems like plants grown in a more soil-like environment take longer to react to and show of problems than plants grown in hydro. If they were already pretty root-bound, that could have been contributing to the issues as well. I think you will now continue to see them grow and strengthen, probably quite fast as well. The transplant can sometimes slow them down and cause some yellowing but not always. You may just see them hesitate for about a week while the roots stretch out a bit then the canopy will take off again, or they may just take off straight away(I have seen that happen many times).

I know it can be super frustrating to get started, especially when you just happen to have a bad run of luck starting right out the gate, but at this point you have rounded a good bit of the learning curve already, and it will help you later on. Now you just have to be patient for a few and watch them grow. I can tell you that hydro can cause just as many head-aches until you get used to thinking in the hydro terms. They all have their learning curves and can make you feel like an idiot, but *hang in there and see how these go*. If you decide you want to try hydro at some point in the future I would be glad to help you any way I can, just shoot me a PM if you want to talk about it


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## jsmits420 (Sep 28, 2013)

Yea, if these don't react well after the transplant and they keep having issues, I'm running nothing but promix and DL. No castings, no nothing. Just on 5 FEM seeds I got so I don't have to worry about space and sexing. Since the Promix is sterilized from the factory I really have faith in it. And I've seen multiple people on here with outstanding pure promix grows(Melvan etc). Haha funny you mention that, I was just looking at what size containers to run DWC for a 3 plant perpetual system, considering I already have 3 gallon bubble cloner built, I just need ONE mom from these then I can move on. I have a closet that I want to convert  that's 8ft long, 2.5ft deep and I just envision that thing stuffed with plants, with two separate hoods, one on the right side for older plants higher running at 750w with my dimmable Lumatek 1k and on the left side for the younger plants in flower lowered and running 400w. At first I was thinking making it my veg area, but it's so perfect it already has the exhaust port for the portable AC I'm getting so all I need is a dual outlet converter for my ventilation exhaust and my AC exhaust. Plus, in veg the temps need to be higher so I won't need the AC for that, and I have a closet for that. I'm thinking with the AC regulating temps I wouldn't have much worries with res temp, and if so then I could run the cheap method with frozen bottles or get some chillers. Regardless, I'm running with what I got now, nothing to do but learn from it now. 24 hours after feeding a little bit of yellowing on the newer leaves but I'd say that's just their reaction to nutes. And I'd say I timed it perfectly because every plants cotyledons were yellowing last night. But I was amazed how fast these grew in PM. I wish I snagged a picture but literally I've seen pics of 3-4 week old plants in solo cups covered in white roots and that's exactly what mine looked like.  What would you suggest as a trial hydro single unit DWC? A little 5 gallon tub with a couple stones and run a fem seed? I'll PM you. Slightly intoxicated at the moment haha -_-


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## jsmits420 (Sep 28, 2013)

Another thing, my mix was suuuuper airy, so the roots had plenty of room to move around. They were super twisted at the bottom, and they still had the little hairs on the roots so they aren't infected YET. But I keep finding adult gnats steadily. I have my room set up to where they have no where to go but into the screen, then I pinch the fuckers and KILL EM! Next watering I'll add the need oil. But I def. think it was the right call to transplant and feed. They were droopy, stunted, and just didn't like where they were at I feel like. At least I FEEL I did the right thing, and I'll know in a few days if my gut instinct was right


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## trillions of atoms (Sep 29, 2013)

PH issue or need a full range of nutrients and micro nutrients.

PERIOD.


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## jsmits420 (Sep 29, 2013)

TOA- when I fed them I ph'd to 6.5, is this right or should I lower it since it's basically hydro? I was in a rush, and only mixed one gallon of nutes so they'll most likely be dried out very quick. I had to go ASAP and didn't even get the whole top of the container filled and didn't get any runoff. But prior to transplant, when they were 1 week old I was giving pure distilled water @ 7.0. No issues until near the end of week 2. Then dropped it to 6.5. Thoughts? Thanks!!


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 29, 2013)

Hey Hemp Goddess said something that caught my attention. If the Neem oil is OIL and not a dilutable version like Azamax then you definitely *don't* want to do a drench with it. But you can actually mix some with water in a spray bottle and add just a drop of dish detergent to it to break up the oil and then spray it lightly onto the soil around the plants and around the space in places you don't mind having it get on. This will deter the gnats and other bugs that may want to get to them. But keep the sticky traps to catch any flyers that want to hang around the plants.


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## jsmits420 (Sep 29, 2013)

No it's dilutable, but I also have the Azomax bottle with the little cartridges that you dump in and mix with water that I COULD use as a soil drench. The plants have been boomin' since I transplanted them and gave them some food. I was very surprised. And every time I check the passive intakes where I have screens to catch the adults I find maybe one or two just stuck there, still alive, I just have my fan cranked up to the max to suck them out, then push them back into my trap muahah. And pup I'll be sendin' you those pics on a pm I just uploaded them. And my mistake they're 30gal rubbermaids. Get at me! I want to tinker! haha


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## Wetdog (Sep 29, 2013)

Couple things with the lime.

You mentioned a 'little' lime. Just what is a 'little'? I cup/cf is what you want.

BIG thing I've noticed with dolomite and fresh mix, fresh being the first time it's been grown in.

The Mg in dolo seems to take longer to break down than the Ca and I've needed to give a shot of Epsom Salts early on and one time only. A tsp/gallon of water takes care of it and by the time it's used up, the Mg from the dolo becomes available.

Worth a shot and a tsp/gallon of water watered in isn't going to hurt anything.

Wet

BTW, treat ProMix as soil, not hydro. It's not hydro by any stretch. It's what's known in the trade as a soiless mix, but that does not equate it to hydro.


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## jsmits420 (Sep 30, 2013)

Wet, I added 1 cup per 5 gallons. I recall being told that's what to add by someone, it's on my thread somewhere. The other one of whether or not to amend promix or not. But now that I did the math, I see I went a little over with it. And I do have the epsom salts in the blue tub, it's organic and little white crystals so I'll hit it with that tomorrow when I water next and feed since they still seem hungry and I didn't really get a good feeding 2 days ago, then I'm going to treat the soil/surface of the soil with Azomax.  This will be my last run with soil or soiless I've decided. I did all my research on hydro about 3 or 4 years ago and that's what I originally wanted to run and had the bulk of my knowledge about, but coming back from my time in the service I got big into organics so tried SS and pretty much all the dirt from my local shop is trash. The demand just isn't in my area for it and it just sits on the shelves and goes bad. Not to mention it's run by a bunch of ...... well, they're nice people, they just have a pretty coasty job let's say that. Bug are everywhere, and there are pets at this shop. And I hope I'm not coming off as arrogant because I do not intend to at all, just frustrated with the amount of money I've wasted and lost on valuable beans. I'm just frustrated at the current moment as I've been battling dirty dirt (haha, it worked out perfectly that way) for the past 6 months. And I'm more hands on and want to be involved so just watering and letting them sit isn't really working for me. So I'm workin' on a plan with Pup right now with the extra space I have to  getting some totes up and running ASAP. I'll be switching to hydro and running Botanicare nutes until I find something better. But I'll run with what I got now. And if anyone out there wants some earth juice nutes I have tons of it (the entire line) and I can give it away for practically nothing...  I appreciate everyone's help and advice and I may stick with promix as my medium for hydro, but I seriously doubt I want to. But I'll keep my GJ going as long as the plants can live and hopefully I get everything resolved and taken care of and they bounce back and I at least get SOME meds off of it!! Green mojo to all, and you guys are the best!


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## sunakard2000 (Sep 30, 2013)

in reguards to your soil issues... have you ever thought about ordering your soils from somewhere else? may be a little bit more money but youll be more likely to get better quality soil if you order from somewhere out of your area and just have it shipped... just a thought if yah still like organics


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 30, 2013)

You can set up a DWC for not much money.  I personally do much better at hydro than I do soil.

I would like to suggest GH nutes rather than Botanicare (except I use their Cal-Mag).


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 30, 2013)

Hey you said the kids are looking a little weak and "powdery"? Shoot us a pic or 2 so that we can see whats happening. I wouldn't be overly worried at the moment if they don't look as good as they first did when you xplanted them. That happens sometimes when xplanting. Powdery mildew is a whole other ball game though. If you have that occurring already then you will need to do some serious revamping of the grow area. But first we need pics to be sure.

And I agree with THG on using GH 3part rather than the Botanicare. Not that I don't like the Botanicare but I am not familiar with how it would work in the hydro setup.


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## Melvan (Sep 30, 2013)

And you're not growing in promix. You're in a soil mix. Running in only promix is a whole different beast. And, honestly, with all the trouble you've been having you would do well to do a simple promix run and weekly and feed schedule.


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## jsmits420 (Oct 1, 2013)

Sun-  I have thought about that but I've decided to go back to my original plan. I got out of if for a while and when I came back all the hype was on organic and supersoil. But I don't feel like paying for shipping and I've given up on organics. I'm getting wet! But thank you for the suggestion, I did give that a thought just too expensive and I like the idea of hydro.

THG- I would have to agree, although I haven't been able to show it yet, that I too would be better at hydro. I'm more hands on and I like to be involved more. And giving more attention is more what I want to do anyways. I'm going to run with these and do the best I can, and learn what I can, but I'm currently in the process of planning and designing with pup some 30 gal totes running a 2 plant perpetual cycle every 4-5 weeks. Stay tuned 

Hush- No PM. Had to be the x-plant.

And Melvan, damnit! I've been saying this a lot lately, I should've gone with my gut. I added the castings and lime and the stuff I added ended up being infected with gnats. The store I have available to me is garbage. And that's not just my words, more than one. More like a couple hand fulls. I do have half a bale left of some HP and I might use that in my setup me and HushP are working on but I might just got 75/25 Coco/Perlite. And I'll run the Botanicare until I'm out unless they're just bad, but I seriously doubt it then I'll switch to GH or AN, their 3 part lines.

I just like the control of hydro. I can't just water and sit around. I like to be up in my plants biz and always checking on them. That's why I was having an issue the first week of over watering. I know the curve will be high for hydro, but originally it's what I did all my studying on in the first place. So it's not unfamiliar territory. I still have my layout plans for DWC from 07! Hahah. But I'll let these ride out, and I may even take some cuttings if I get there and pop them in some rockwool and get it rollin' with my new setup.

If you want to see recent pics I updated my journal. I believe this thread is done I just had necrosis on the first leaves from original over watering most likely and ph issue since I was dropping it lower than needed because I was treating it as JUST promix. I've been hitting 6.8 on my last 2 water/feedings.  Thanks to all!


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