# Equipment options?



## FruityBud (Jan 28, 2011)

Hello to all.

I'm ready to start to get supplies and put things together, but unsure about a few things first. With the information I have below, what would be the best option for an ideal setup.

Going with a 250w HPS/MH Lumatek ballast.

I have a choice of reflectors to choose from, but not sure which one to pick:

Adjust-A-Wing
Aerowing
Cool Tube 125mm
Mantis 250/600w

Size of my grow box 2x2x6

Going with a 4" extractor fan, my options for the fan are;

S&P TD-160/100, 100mm/4inch Airflow:160m3/hr
S&P TD-250/100, 100mm/4inch Airflow:250m3/hr

With that 4" fan, I would need 4" insulated ducting? and how many and what size would you have the passive intakes as?

For filter, the one they have at my local is called Fresh Filter, anyone heard of or use one? they come in these size's; 100mm, 125mm and 150mm, I'm guesing I need to get the 100mm?

Any more information needed, just ask.

Thanks.


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## Jericho (Jan 28, 2011)

im taking it your room dimensions are in feet. So we need to change the fan speed into ft3/m to make it easier. your 160m3/h = 94ft3/m and your 250m3/h is 147ft3/m. 

You have 24 ft3 in the box and you want to change the air between 3-5 times a min. 

A filter will reduce the pull a little so compensate for that. I would go with the 250m3/h and 100mm filter. with out the filter it is changing air 6 times a min, add the filter to that you should still get 4-5 times a min.


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## Peter Jennings (Jan 28, 2011)

Jericho said:
			
		

> You have 24 ft3 in the box and you want to change the air between 3-5 times a min.
> 
> A filter will reduce the pull a little so compensate for that. I would go with the 250m3/h and 100mm filter. with out the filter it is changing air 6 times a min, add the filter to that you should still get 4-5 times a min.



Those numbers are incorrect. You want to remove all of the air in the room once in three to five minutes. 

This is being incorrectly stated here continuously and is Not the industry standard.


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## Jericho (Jan 29, 2011)

Peter Jennings said:
			
		

> Those numbers are incorrect. You want to remove all of the air in the room once in three to five minutes.
> 
> This is being incorrectly stated here continuously and is Not the industry standard.



I have read on many sites, and have had advise from many people about the air exchange and you are the only one ever to tell me once every 3-5 min. 

If you changed the air once every 3-5 min in that grow area i would bet you would have problems with humidity and heat. 

I'm sure someone else will comment about this. for now i stick by 3-5 times a minute.


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## Peter Jennings (Jan 29, 2011)

Jericho said:
			
		

> I have read on many sites, and have had advise from many people about the air exchange and you are the only one ever to tell me once every 3-5 min.
> 
> If you changed the air once every 3-5 min in that grow area i would bet you would have problems with humidity and heat.
> 
> I'm sure someone else will comment about this. for now i stick by 3-5 times a minute.



How many sources would you like before you agree you have the incorrect information?

Got an Ipad I'll send you a link to a grow room calculator?

first source - hxxp://www.marijuana-seeds.net/OdorControl.htm - and I quote "The filter size required for you application will depend on the amount of air flow required for your application. Two rules of thumb are to maintain an air flow that is *eight to ten times the total volume of your vented space per hour*, or, for indoor growing applications, 150 CFM per 1000 watt light bulb"

second source - hxxp://hydroponicsdictionary.com/index.php?s=air+exchange - and I quote "General Hydroponics Carbon Air Filters work with any popular inline fan. Calculate the size of your room and choose a fan *that completely exchanges the air in the room eight to ten times per hour.* Then choose the appropriate filter with the correct CFM and flange size to match that fan.

Third source - hxxp://www.atlantishydroponics.com/Carbon-Filters-and-Air-Purification/Carbon-Filters-and-Air-Purification.asp

Humidity and Heat only come in to play if those issues were not set up properly to begin with but do not play a part in proper air exchange calculations for thriving plants. When we talk about air exchange and what is needed the calculation is based on the amount of air that is removed and brought back in to a room in order to keep CO2 levels where they need to be, or should I say at a level where plants can thrive.


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## Jericho (Jan 29, 2011)

Seem to be getting a little hostile pete. Ok you are right. For the plant to thrive that may be the right amount of air exchange needed. What do you do then if you would like to cool the room or lower the humidity by exchanging air faster? 

People do not only use there fan systems to correct the amount of CO2 in there grow space. It is used for much more. 

This is a forum where everyone's opinion is welcome. I have given my opinion on the matter and you have given yours. End of.

This Is my opinion made up from my experiences and the knowledge of others on the site i trust because of there hands on experience with growing. Frankly you can name as many sources as you like. It will not change my mind about it,


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## Peter Jennings (Jan 29, 2011)

Why is it every time I state facts people say I am being hostile? I'm not even in the ballpark of being hostile. Trust me on that.

Lets me answer your question with another question. How do large companies, or any large growing operation cool and deal with humidity levels in "closed loop systems" ?

You'll find your answer there.


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## dman1234 (Jan 29, 2011)

i always aim for 3 times a min approx.


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## Jericho (Jan 29, 2011)

Peter Jennings said:
			
		

> Why is it every time I state facts people say I am being hostile? I'm not even in the ballpark of being hostile. Trust me on that.
> 
> Lets me answer your question with another question. How do large companies, or any large growing operation cool and deal with humidity levels in "closed loop systems" ?
> 
> You'll find your answer there.


 
Let me answer you with a question. Are we companies or large growing operations here? If you want to be smart about it then answer it your self.


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## Peter Jennings (Jan 29, 2011)

My point was it's done the same way. I think we can all see at this point who the one with hostility is.


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## Jericho (Jan 29, 2011)

When you are being smart about your answers rather than just giving an explanation i hope my frustration does show through my posts. 
If you would answer with an explanation of why it should be done like this rather that just saying i am wrong then it would be helpful.

There is no hostility in my posts just frustration from your criptic answers.


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## Peter Jennings (Jan 29, 2011)

Jericho said:
			
		

> When you are being smart about your answers rather than just giving an explanation i hope my frustration does show through my posts.
> If you would answer with an explanation of why it should be done like this rather that just saying i am wrong then it would be helpful.
> 
> There is no hostility in my posts just frustration from your criptic answers.


Fair enough. Thought that is what I was doing in the first post I had with sources. Did you read them?

Heading out the door now but I will be happy to explain any aspect of grow rooms. Its what I do.


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## Jericho (Jan 29, 2011)

The links that you have given are just copy and pasted from hydroponic stores with reference to filtering the smell. It does not say anything about the CO2 needed for a full plant, or options to dealing with humidity or heat with a fan. 

I understand your point and how you worked it out. What i am saying is that these sites are basing the calculations of exchanging air for the purpose of odour control not to deal with the above. 

If you have other sources i would like to read them, i am interested in finding out more. If you have the knowledge then share please. How would you control heat in the room without the use of air exchange?


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## FruityBud (Feb 1, 2011)

Thanks for the replys guys.

Jericho: Yes, dimensions are in feet.

On reflectors, I have only heard good things about the Adjust-A-Wing, but if heat will be a problem I will be kicking myself in not getting the Aerowing, I think its Air-Cooled.  Has anyone used an Aerowing in an 2x2?

And would I be better off putting the fan and filter inside or outside the grow box?

Thanks again.


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## dman1234 (Feb 1, 2011)

filter inside room, fan outside room IMO.


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## Jericho (Feb 1, 2011)

FruityBud said:
			
		

> Thanks for the replys guys.
> 
> Jericho: Yes, dimensions are in feet.
> 
> ...



I keep mine inside the tent just because i grow auto's and have allot of head room and its not far till it vents out side.

No clue about the reflectors, I prefer cooltubes


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## Peter Jennings (Feb 8, 2011)

Jericho said:
			
		

> If you have other sources i would like to read them, i am interested in finding out more. If you have the knowledge then share please. How would you control heat in the room without the use of air exchange?



TBH if you have read any articles in Rosebug magazine, and or High Times back in the day I have been published in both. To date I have pretty much bit my tongue on my experience because I don't want to come off as arrogant because no one knew me here. 

I built my first professionally built groom room in 1979, and most of the time I try an educate people based on the industry standards. 

I am NARI certified, IRC certified, IIRC certified, and I carry a a class C general contractors license in three states. I am nationally certified in electrical, plumbing, and carpentry. 

I some eyes that may be an arrogant post however I have tried to help people without having to go in to all these details.

Now, if you would like to sit back and learn something from a professional, I will be happy to help, but if you want to continue to jst spout off about "what you have read on other places" I will sit back and let you give the wrong info based on your second grow in a tent without anything other than your opinion.

I did say I would come back to this thread. Took me a week to think about what I wanted to say, and TBH cool off a bit. 

I apologize in advance to any members who may find this post offensive.

It is/was not my intentions.

Peace,
PJ


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## Jericho (Feb 8, 2011)

Peter Jennings said:
			
		

> TBH if you have read any articles in Rosebug magazine, and or High Times back in the day I have been published in both. To date I have pretty much bit my tongue on my experience because I don't want to come off as arrogant because no one knew me here.
> 
> I built my first professionally built groom room in 1979, and most of the time I try an educate people based on the industry standards.
> 
> ...



Actually i do find you to be rather arrogant and offensive. Just to throw that out there. (*My opinion*)

You belittle my posts and what the people here have taught and expect your word to be taken because you are certified.
Just because you build to the industry standard does not mean you are always right. 
There is more than one way to grow cannabis, no one way is right. It depends on your preference.

The thing is that you say your way is right but will still not give any explanations as to why. Just that you have been taught this way and got a certificate for doing it this way does not make it right.(*My reason*)

You say i have only done 2 grows, funnily enough you only know what i have told you, nothing more. 

So instead of putting other members down, why don't you try giving your *reason* as to why your *opinion* would be better and then let the member asking decide what they would prefer to do. If you did that they i wouldn't find you arrogant i would find you knowledgeable. 

Until you decide to give some facts as to why your option is better then i will continue to use mine and share my opinion on mine untill i am taught (with actual knowledge instead of another opinion.

This is how a forum works.


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## Peter Jennings (Feb 8, 2011)

Actually i do find you to be rather arrogant and offensive. Just to throw that out there. (*My opinion*)
And I find you to be extremely green and ignorant on the subject at hand. 

You belittle my posts and what the people here have taught and expect your word to be taken because you are certified.
You are the one out here giving people advice with the incorrect info, not I. Call it what you like. I doubt you would be so defensive if you actually had some credible sources to back your claims. 

Just because you build to the industry standard does not mean you are always right. 
Never claimed to always be right, but if you want to get right down to it, I am right here and you are wrong, and if you like I can dig up some other threads to show you are consistent in giving bad and incorrect advice.  

There is more than one way to grow cannabis, no one way is right. It depends on your preference.
Who said anything about growing cannabis? This discussion is based on growroom air exchange, and your incorrect data.

The thing is that you say your way is right but will still not give any explanations as to why. Just that you have been taught this way and got a certificate for doing it this way does not make it right.(*My reason*)
You lost me here. I'll have to ask my 25 year old to better explain. Are you actually stating that someone who is trained professionally only has an opinion after 30+ years? 

You say i have only done 2 grows, funnily enough you only know what i have told you, nothing more. 
So r u admitting to the fact that you have told lies to all of us here now? I think it's pretty obvious to most the experience level you have, but do tell.

So instead of putting other members down, why don't you try giving your *reason* as to why your *opinion* would be better and then let the member asking decide what they would prefer to do. If you did that they i wouldn't find you arrogant i would find you knowledgeable.
Outside of you, never had anyone here make this claim. Perhaps they can chime in. My opinion happens to be backed by more than 30 years in the business. How much you have again? I am not putting you down, I am giving the correct info based on facts. I am not going to do the leg work for you, and because of your piss poor attitude will never give you advice, but I will make corrections when you spout off about something you have read about and have not done. 

Until you decide to give some facts as to why your option is better then i will continue to use mine and share my opinion on mine untill i am taught (with actual knowledge instead of another opinion.
I posted some links in this thread to help explain air exchange. The fact that you don't understand the concept is on you. 

Rather than just sit here and argue with me like a child, why don't you drink some of that advice you were giving before your three edits of your return to me and post up some credible links to show us all how you are correct.. :hubba: 


This is how a forum works.
:chuck: I know Kung Foo 

Am I out of line here MP?


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## the chef (Feb 8, 2011)

Fellas...DAm!..FB can take both of your ideas and make it his own....it's not like he gonna be able to follow specs to a perfect T. Smoke a bowl....show each other up on a grow journal..........a friendly noy so friendly comp! You 2 ...2 plants of your choice......whos bud is the best....air flow and exchange are more important so lets see who's more dialed in! You can trash each other there and let FB get back to his.......dam chill! Get it up fellas! I'll subscribe........i dare ya!


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## Jericho (Feb 8, 2011)

Peter Jennings said:
			
		

> Actually i do find you to be rather arrogant and offensive. Just to throw that out there. (*My opinion*)
> And I find you to be extremely green and ignorant on the subject at hand.
> 
> You belittle my posts and what the people here have taught and expect your word to be taken because you are certified.
> ...



I tell you what pj i will let you say what ever it is you like. Fact of the matter is that you have still not given any reason as to why your way is right. Just that you have experience so that's all that counts. When you give factualy reasons as to why air exchange is better at once every 3-5 mins instead of 3-5 times a min then i will listen as i said before. 

I do not need to tell this site my entire back ground, what i have grown in the past is my business, There are some that know me better and some i prefer not to share with.

You want to dig up some of my threads then go ahead. Once again unless you give me an actual reason as to why i am wrong then i am not going to bother with you any more. You can come onto any thread and correct me if you like, just make sure you back it up with a little more than "i have experience but i don't want to share the knowledge."

The links you gave only stated the air exchange compatible with the filter you posted. It does not give any info as to why it should be done like that, or how it benefits the plant. If you cannot answer these questions then why are you correcting me?


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## Jericho (Feb 8, 2011)

the chef said:
			
		

> Fellas...DAm!..FB can take both of your ideas and make it his own....it's not like he gonna be able to follow specs to a perfect T. Smoke a bowl....show each other up on a grow journal..........a friendly noy so friendly comp! You 2 ...2 plants of your choice......whos bud is the best....air flow and exchange are more important so lets see who's more dialed in! You can trash each other there and let FB get back to his.......dam chill! Get it up fellas! I'll subscribe........i dare ya!



Chef buddy all is cool with me. As i said above i gave my opinion and he gave his and its up to the member to choose. I just dont like it when someone tells me im wrong and then does not back up the claim.

I always do a GJ and anyone is welcome to look in. I do not have to prove my way  is right. FB asked i answered with MY OPINION and PJ did not like it. He didn't give a reason to back his i gave one for mine. 

I am sorry FB, i hope that you have the info you need. I will head out of this thread as i think its past its due date. 

Peace to all.


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## Peter Jennings (Feb 8, 2011)

Hope this helps someone:
hxxp://www.aquaculture-hydroponics.co.uk/admin/web-inf/uploads/documents/ventil-bound.pdf


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## igotgreensmon (Feb 24, 2011)

Peter Jennings, please do not 'leave the building'. People who are looking for experience know it when they see it. Therefore, I urge you to continue contributing to this forum if you feel you have helpful information to give.

I'm one of those members who has read extreme amounts of the forum, knows quite a bit from experience, but rarely (never) posts. Reason being, is because I know there are many more *qualified* people on here to learn from. Yes I could probably help some people, but I enjoy trial/error.

  Jericho, while you may have airflow moving 3-5 times a minute, the FACT is that the industry STANDARD is indeed once every 3-5 min. This coming from an a/c contractor. That absolutely does not mean that removing the air in your grow space at a faster pace is not acceptable. Just expect to refill C02 tanks a little more..... ?duh? 

 I understand how it is frustrating to see incorrect information written multiple times. The way to fix that is to create your own thread, providing information on what you've learned throughout the years, and how you came about doing things the way you do.

Also, can we be clear that opinions are much different than preferences. And facts just are.

I'll go on to say my personal preference has never been faster than once every few minutes. It's also of low importance to me, so to argue one way or the other would be a waste of time.

Finally, before you click the 'post reply' button. If you could replace what you've written with any of the following, just close the page... : "I don't care, you're wrong. Quit making fun of me. My opinion is very important." or my fav. "I demand respect."


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## SensiStarFan (Feb 24, 2011)

In fact, EVERYONE here can potentially be correct when they talk about how often they need to exchange the air in their grow area.  I do not have a degree in botany.  I have never been a contractor or a plant biologist.  But what I do understand is LOGIC.

LOGICALLY, a plant will obsorb CO2 from the air in order to "breathe".  Yea this is dumbing it down a bit but logically and basically this is what happens.

Now, let's say Bob is growing 2 small plants in a 500 cubic foot area.  And Jim is growing 20 plants in a 200 cubic foot area.  OBVIOUSLY, Jim is going to need to exchange the air in his grow area more often than Bob in order to keep up the same CO2 levels in the air because his larger and more numerous amount of plants in a smaller cubic area is eating more CO2 from the air.  
EDIT: How often you need to exchange the air in your grow space depends on your grow area and what you are growing in it.  CFM ratings on fans and manufacturer suggestions are just that, suggestions.  

Tu comprende?


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## Jericho (Feb 24, 2011)

I exchange the air 3-5 times a minute for a reason. I suggest it for a reason and i give my reasons for doing so. 
All the experience and proof i need is in my GJ and many others as to how well it works. 

IMO it is the cheapest and easiest way to cool a 600w HID lamp.


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## Jericho (Feb 24, 2011)

igotgreensmon said:
			
		

> Just expect to refill C02 tanks a little more..... ?duh?



When using Co2 your room needs to be sealed no ventilation, meaning you would not be exchanging air so actually no you would not be refilling any co2 tanks a little more.


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## NorCalHal (Feb 24, 2011)

imo, changing air 3-5 times a minuate is plain crazy and not needed. Try that formula with a 25' x 25' x 12' room, you would need multiple 14"fans pushing and pulling. That 7,500 cu/ft, and you want to exhange this amount of air every 12-15 seconds???? Never happen.


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## WeedHopper (Feb 24, 2011)

If you setup your growroom to have Negative Airflow,,it will be fine.
2x2x6= 24cf
That aint gonna take much of a fan to take care of that grow space.
A 100 cfm fan should move the air 4 times a Minute(way more then ya need) and give ya plenty Negative Airflow , which will take care of heat and smell. If ya add a filter it will effect the CFM to a point. The last I heard. CFM means Cubic Feet of Air moved per Minute.
I personally like my air moved twice a minute,,and thats plenty .


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## benamucc (Feb 24, 2011)

yo fruity!  first off high five!  

second, and final...i'm hoping to post a DIY $12 4" carbon filter. (carbon refills will be along the lines of $6)  SUPER easy build.  I hope to get it photo'd and posted this afternoon, but if not today for sure tomorrow!!  

i'm not sure if it'll be big enough for your space, but depending on how much you're exhausting the space it might just do?!


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## nouvellechef (Feb 24, 2011)

You guys are wild and crazy! Having a larger fan will not hurt, just that simple. Speedster if need be. Better control of multiple things. Jericho is correct from that standpoint. But no, 3-5 every min is def not needed to grow to full potential. I have 880cfm exhaust for 1500cf. Use 440cfm for intake.


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## cubby (Feb 24, 2011)

3-5 times per minuet is not air exchange.....it's a wind tunnel.


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## WeedHopper (Feb 24, 2011)

Good one Cubby.:48:


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## v35b (Feb 24, 2011)

Would love to sitin on that one....


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## raz (Mar 25, 2011)

Man as a bod who sits back on the forum and just likes to watch/read and learn i was finding the exchange of opinions rather interesting....(recognising the fact that opinions are like arseoles, everyones got one)....

But the thread was getting pretty savvy and some info was being exchanged...

No matter wat anyone says, it was obvious both guys have some knowledge/exp
and i was hoping to read a bit more about airflow,exchange co2 ect...Which is wat i thought this forum is about, just us guys helping each other out by exchanging info based on our own experiences, trial and errors etc...?

Theres no ultimate puff guru or authority just yet....But i would hope that peeps here would continue to exchange info in a dignified/civillised manner...Or maybe have a smoke b4 they get heated...?

Keep the info comin guys, its extremely helpful and worthwhile...This forum has helped me bundles.....Peace....


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