# Leaves yellowing and drooping..



## Track (May 23, 2014)

So, I'm 9 weeks into flowering and my leaves have becomes yellow and droopy.

At first, I thought it was because I hadn't watered in a while, but water isn't having any effect on it.

I understand that this is supposed to happen at the end of the plant's life, but my trichomes are still not amber.

I bought a 30x loupe today, and they're not amber as far as I can see. Perhaps I need a 60x loupe..?


----------



## P Jammers (May 23, 2014)

ostpicsworthless:


----------



## trillions of atoms (May 23, 2014)

Yellowing is normal later in flower. If your close to pulling her down just let her finish.


If they start to evenly yellow out early...hit them harder with nutes.


----------



## Track (May 23, 2014)

I don't know if you'll be able to see that much with the HPS on.

Basically, all the leave are this yellow:






And this droopy:


----------



## Track (May 23, 2014)

trillions of atoms said:


> Yellowing is normal later in flower. If your close to pulling her down just let her finish.
> 
> 
> If they start to evenly yellow out early...hit them harder with nutes.



I gave them a 20% extra dose of BioBloom yesterday. So far, no change.


----------



## Hackerman (May 23, 2014)

JMO for how ever many grains of salt...

The curling/drying leaves and tip burn look like too much nutes.

The leaf wilting and the crunchy looking buds look under watered or too low humidity.

Maybe some clean waterings once or twice.

My sativa does loose leaves when it flowers. They yellow and drop of, bottom first. But, they stay moist through the yellow stage.


----------



## Track (May 23, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> JMO for how ever many grains of salt...
> 
> The curling/drying leaves and tip burn look like too much nutes.
> 
> ...



Mine are definitely not moist. The leaves are as dry as a bone and usually are, even though the soil is damp. Any more, and I'd risk over-watering.

I'm not under-watering and this happened after I watered clean for a week.

The humidity is in the high 40% usually, sometimes 50%. I have a humidifier, but I figured if the humidity got above 60%, that would be a problem for the buds.


----------



## Hackerman (May 23, 2014)

Everything sounds right.

Maybe they're just getting close to done. I am getting close to being done and I am dry and a little droopy.


----------



## trillions of atoms (May 23, 2014)

Low RH and fans can cause crispy leaves.  Def not a nute burn. Droopy leaves =over/under watering.


----------



## Hushpuppy (May 23, 2014)

I think she is just about done, and the look off the plants at this point are more a result of a not quite balanced and health issues grow throughout the life cycle. Even though they look good, and look like they haven't suffered terribly throughout their lives, their environment has been out of balance enough to cause them to die back earlier than normal. I wouldn't give anymore nutes, I would be cutting them back to half strength ffor the final weeks ripening. Just begin collecting the ffan leaves as they fall to remove them. She should be ready within another 5-9days. 

The strain appears to be close to a 50/50 ind/sat but you may not get much amber as that is controlled by genetics. Iff you see they are mostly cloudy, then you are good.


----------



## Track (May 23, 2014)

Hushpuppy said:


> I think she is just about done, and the look off the plants at this point are more a result of a not quite balanced and health issues grow throughout the life cycle. Even though they look good, and look like they haven't suffered terribly throughout their lives, their environment has been out of balance enough to cause them to die back earlier than normal. I wouldn't give anymore nutes, I would be cutting them back to half strength ffor the final weeks ripening. Just begin collecting the ffan leaves as they fall to remove them. She should be ready within another 5-9days.
> 
> The strain appears to be close to a 50/50 ind/sat but you may not get much amber as that is controlled by genetics. Iff you see they are mostly cloudy, then you are good.



Definitely a lot to think about here.

1.) What could I have done to balance them out throughout their life-cycle? What do you mean they suffered?

2.) The strain is White Widow - could it be that it's not meant to have any amber trichomes..?

3.) How long should I wait? If I wait 3 weeks will the buds die, as well?


----------



## trillions of atoms (May 24, 2014)

It should amber up...make sure your loupe is strong enough. I think hush means PHing the solution if its off.

if the ph is outta wack the plant will not assimilate proper nutrients. There could be plenty of "food"  but the plant cant use it.


----------



## Track (May 24, 2014)

trillions of atoms said:


> It should amber up...make sure your loupe is strong enough. I think hush means PHing the solution if its off.
> 
> if the ph is outta wack the plant will not assimilate proper nutrients. There could be plenty of "food"  but the plant cant use it.



pH has been in check since the beginning. Though, even if it wasn't, why show symptoms now? I've been using the same amount of pH down for months.


----------



## trillions of atoms (May 24, 2014)

They yellow naturally anyway unless your really hitting them hard.

I have no history on your grow methods.

if the ph WAS "in check"  then this plant is just finishing.

no worries dude just let her go.


----------



## Track (May 24, 2014)

trillions of atoms said:


> They yellow naturally anyway unless your really hitting them hard.
> 
> I have no history on your grow methods.
> 
> ...



You mean let her die? But then won't the buds die with her?


----------



## trillions of atoms (May 24, 2014)

No... the leaves yellow n die off.

then you trim them off...then trim buds off stems after chopping...then dry/cure.


----------



## Hushpuppy (May 25, 2014)

You have 2 types of leaves on your plant. The big ones are the "fan" leaves which are the chemical factories and solar panels ffor the plant. The other leaves are the bud leaves or "sugar leaves". The sugar leaves are the smaller leaves that grow in with the buds and get covered with the resin glands (the sugar). Often when plants are grown organically the "fan" leaves will "yellow off" towards the end of their life cycle. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is a problem but when plants are grown in "optimal conditions" this "yellowing off" occurs less.

I wasn't saying earlier that you weren't doing something wrong as much as there can be little things that can affect how the plants grow. Temps and humidity, air flow, microbe level, pH in the soil, root binding, moisture level in the soil, light intensity. Any of these things can be off enough to lend to early senescence (yellowing off) without ever showing any issues before the onset of senescence. By many growers it is considered normal.

If I remember correctly, WW is not a heavy nitrogen eater, so that could lend to the yellowing off. I think the WW doesn't get real amber at max ripeness. I would cut a sugar leaf or 2 from a couple of the buds and take them out into bright daylight to examine under the lens. You should see some that are clear and most of them cloudy, milky looking, and you may see a couple that are amber. If you don't have 90% or better milky trichs then let them go a few more days and check again. Even if all of the fan leaves die and fall off, as long as the sugar leaves are still green you are ok.


----------



## Track (May 26, 2014)

Hushpuppy said:


> You have 2 types of leaves on your plant. The big ones are the "fan" leaves which are the chemical factories and solar panels ffor the plant. The other leaves are the bud leaves or "sugar leaves". The sugar leaves are the smaller leaves that grow in with the buds and get covered with the resin glands (the sugar). Often when plants are grown organically the "fan" leaves will "yellow off" towards the end of their life cycle. That doesn't necessarily mean that there is a problem but when plants are grown in "optimal conditions" this "yellowing off" occurs less.
> 
> I wasn't saying earlier that you weren't doing something wrong as much as there can be little things that can affect how the plants grow. Temps and humidity, air flow, microbe level, pH in the soil, root binding, moisture level in the soil, light intensity. Any of these things can be off enough to lend to early senescence (yellowing off) without ever showing any issues before the onset of senescence. By many growers it is considered normal.
> 
> If I remember correctly, WW is not a heavy nitrogen eater, so that could lend to the yellowing off. I think the WW doesn't get real amber at max ripeness. I would cut a sugar leaf or 2 from a couple of the buds and take them out into bright daylight to examine under the lens. You should see some that are clear and most of them cloudy, milky looking, and you may see a couple that are amber. If you don't have 90% or better milky trichs then let them go a few more days and check again. Even if all of the fan leaves die and fall off, as long as the sugar leaves are still green you are ok.



OT: This damn website is telling me I can't rep you again.

I hate that.

On topic: Does the senescene mean that the leaves are no longer functional?


----------



## P Jammers (May 26, 2014)

I'd venture to guess that you food was a little on the low side which caused your plant to draw from it's self for food in the end here. At 9 weeks, and judging by your leaves I'd say you have an indica leaning plant which in most cases finish in the 10 week range.

I think all you are seeing is what the Internet seems to call fade. Personally I call it starvation, but to each their own.

I'd get a pair of of scissors ready to go.
:farm:


----------



## Hushpuppy (May 27, 2014)

:yeahthat: Senescence is the 10 dollar word for "fade". Once the leaves reach that point, they are no longer feeding the plant through photosynthesis, but are instead being cannibalized of their available nutrients for the feeding of the buds as she is finishing up flowering. Yes you can go ahead and remove every leaf that has yellowed fully as it is no longer viable. This will also expose the lower buds to light for a few days to help them to ripen.


----------



## Track (May 27, 2014)

P Jammers said:


> I'd venture to guess that you food was a little on the low side which caused your plant to draw from it's self for food in the end here. At 9 weeks, and judging by your leaves I'd say you have an indica leaning plant which in most cases finish in the 10 week range.
> 
> I think all you are seeing is what the Internet seems to call fade. Personally I call it starvation, but to each their own.
> 
> ...



No way, dude. I fed them too much if anything.


----------



## buddogmutt (May 29, 2014)

That's what they do around harvest time 

View attachment image.jpg


----------



## Hushpuppy (May 29, 2014)

Pretty flowers Buddog. That is definitely what you want them to do normally.


----------



## Track (May 30, 2014)

Hushpuppy said:


> Pretty flowers Buddog. That is definitely what you want them to do normally.



Well, 2/5 of my plants is almost completely yellow.

Should I harvest before they get to 100% yellow or after?


----------



## Rosebud (May 30, 2014)

Leaves have nothing to do about timing your harvest. Leaf color tells you if your out of nutrition.   The only way to know when your plants are ready is to check the trichomes.


----------



## Track (May 31, 2014)

Rosebud said:


> Leaves have nothing to do about timing your harvest. Leaf color tells you if your out of nutrition.   The only way to know when your plants are ready is to check the trichomes.



But everyone's been telling me that yellowing leaves are a sign that the plant is naturally dying, i.e. time to harvest.

The trichomes have not changed in the past 3 weeks. They're always 90% cloudy (as far as I can tell).

Also, I'm starting to think I may have OVER-fed the one plant that is most rapidly yellowing. Possibility?


----------



## Hushpuppy (May 31, 2014)

I forget, what strain are these? Determining when to harvest is a function of several factors. The first being, knowing when the breeder says they are supposed to be ready. The next one is looking at the trichomes to see what stage they are in. Also knowing the strain of the plants helps to determine IF the trichs will turn amber. If the breeder says the flowering is 9 weeks and you still don't have amber by 12 weeks then its time to harvest. One problem with this plan is the fact that if you have issues during fflower, that can cause the flowering time to be pushed out however many weeks it takes for the issues to be resolved.


----------



## Track (May 31, 2014)

Hushpuppy said:


> I forget, what strain are these? Determining when to harvest is a function of several factors. The first being, knowing when the breeder says they are supposed to be ready. The next one is looking at the trichomes to see what stage they are in. Also knowing the strain of the plants helps to determine IF the trichs will turn amber. If the breeder says the flowering is 9 weeks and you still don't have amber by 12 weeks then its time to harvest. One problem with this plan is the fact that if you have issues during fflower, that can cause the flowering time to be pushed out however many weeks it takes for the issues to be resolved.



This is what I am growing, AFAIK..

http://www.seedsman.com/en/white-widow-feminised-seeds


----------



## jewboy (Jun 8, 2014)

The yellowing leaves are normal in as much as they are at the stage of the plants growing and fyi also dying.
The droopy leaves are either over or under watering.
Trics colour, well i never harvest by this and never have done in years of constantly growing, i go by the firmness/density of the buds alas the higher buds will be denser than the lower smaller buds but this is how i do things.
Jewboy


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 9, 2014)

White Widow is supposed to be almost all Sativa but is a hybridized plant so it may not truly follow the "typical" characteristics off a 100% Sativa, which would be a long flowering time among other things. The breeder said 8 weeks fflower. If you didn't have any issues throughout the life of the plants, and they had ideal conditions to grow in then they should ffinish no later than 9weeks. However, unless you have the (nearly) perfect setup, you can't entirely go by a set 8-9weeks, but if your setup is decent and the plants suffer no stresses during the flowering period, then you should be able to say no later than 10weeks.

However,  if the seeds you got are F1 breeds (which at this point I would think those would have to be F3) then the stability of the phenotypes is quite weak and can cause the grow parameters to be very varied.

All that said, I would go ahead and harvest them and see how they turn out. Sometimes you just have to learn some stuff through trial and error, as the variables are just not able to be calculated.


----------



## mrnice (Jun 17, 2014)

If i am not mistaken, did you not state you grew five plants and harvested 450 gms dry!!
If these were two of the said plants then i seriously believe you are taking far too much medication Track.
No way Jose.
Mrnice


----------

