# New Indoor Hydroponics... PICS!



## tangerine dream (Nov 17, 2012)

Ok, I am setting up a new indoor grow room. I have never grown bud before however I have done a lot of research.

I am going to attempt a Hydroponics set up, which hopefully you should be able to recognise with my rough mock up of what I'm hoping it will look like. Because the room is reasonably large (6' 9" x 2' 7" x 8' 3") I was looking to have separate flowering and vegetation rooms, this way I can keep mother plants in one room and continually clone them, then once they have reached the right size I can move them into the budding room. 

This entire room is located in my basement and has already been cleaned out and painted white, I am going to line the walls with tarpaulin and then place mylar around where the plants will be situated. Ventilation will be achieved through a combination of oscillating fans and squirrel cage fans (1 large oscillating fan in the small alcove located at the back, for the flowering room, 1 small oscillating fan located near the entrance, for the vegetation room, and 1 squirrel cage fan located at the top of each of the rooms)

In the vegetation room I was thinking of having a combination of cool white and warm white fluorescents for the new clones and a 600w metal halide bulb for the mothers and older clones (I may later choose to just have the mh lamp). The flowering room would contain a 600w high pressure sodium bulb. 

The images attached are a very rough design of what I would like the room to look like (just the plants, not lighting/ventilation etc)  and although it may not look like this in the end I wanted you guys to have an idea of the shape of the room. All the attached images are to scale.

Dimensions:
Large room - height 6' 9" 
                - width  2' 7" 
                - depth  8' 3"

Small room - height 4' 7"
               - width  2' 9"
               - depth  2' 7"

At the moment this is all hypothetical and I am open to change if you can help think of any ways to manage my space better. At the moment the small room is only being used to fit a largish oscillating fan because it can not be easily accessed without having to disturb the plants in the flowering room.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 17, 2012)

Obviously I will keep you updated with pics once we have started the build, and advice throughout will be appreciated.


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## pcduck (Nov 17, 2012)

:ciao: T-D

Looking at your set up you have a real nice start.

I would like to point out where I see where you may need improvement.

For lights I would suggest t-5's for veg/mother room. An eight bulb t-5 would be sweet in there.

Your flower room is under lit. Most growers like to have 5000 lumens per square feet. Your flower room with it's dimensions would need approximately 106,600 lumens. Most 600's put out between 88,000 to 98,000 lumens so more would be needed. Two 600's in that space would be cranking it, 2 400's would work though. Having 2 would also give you better light coverage.

Not sure about your squirrel cage fans as I do not know the cfm's. I like have negative pressure in my grow room when my ventilation fan is operating.


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## Locked (Nov 17, 2012)

I agree with pc...I use HO T5's for veg and get results like this>>http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=198043&d=1353178627

I would go with two 600W HPS in either cool tubes or ventilated hoods. 5000 lumens a sqr foot in veg is the minimum. I like to shoot for more like 7500. jmo


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 17, 2012)

So are you going to split the larger room into 2 rooms?  How big will each room be?  Will you actually have room to keep mothers and veg plants?   

I dislike mylar.  It is hard to work with, wrinkles easily and does not wash well at all.  I would either paint the walls flat white (the easiest and cheapest) or use panda film.

I would go with T5s to veg.


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## ShOrTbUs (Nov 18, 2012)

What type of hydro setup do you intend to use? I"m worried about the dimensions you chose. Since the space is less then 3' wide, it looks as though when you go into your room your going to have to move your plants around alot to get things done. Creating a lot of extra work that you wouldn't need to do if the dimensions of your space were different.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 19, 2012)

Shortbus- I was thinking dripper system for the veg room and Ebb n Flow for the flowering room. I was also worried about having to move things around, but I think if I set things up right and with some help I could change water without *TOO* much hassle. Obviously I would like the room to be wider but this is all I have to work with.

The Hemp Goddess- My flower room would just be 1 room (as seen in the plan), the smaller room connected to it would be used to house a larger oscillating fan. The walls are already white, but I'm going to be lining them with white tarpaulin to make it water proof, help with the air tightness and just generally keep this room separate.

pcduck & Hamster Lewis - I was considering getting 2 bulbs for the coverage reason, but I would then need to purchase an extra ballast and extra set up would be required, but if you think that 1 600w wouldn't be enough then guess I have no choice. You think I should use florescents for the veg room rather than MH then? and particular reasons?  

Sorry I have been late responding, I only have chance to check these threads when I'm at work, will be checking throughout today and tomorrow though.


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## pcduck (Nov 19, 2012)

> You think I should use florescents for the veg room rather than MH then? and particular reasons?



Yes...Less watts, less heat,  able get the plants real close to reduce stretch, the HO T-5's work great in veg. I have a 4 bulb in my 2 x 4 tent and just love it.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 19, 2012)

But it seems as though they aren't very concentrated at the blue end of the spectrum which is what I thought you needed with vegetative growth.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 19, 2012)

Also PC you mentioned about the squirrel cage fans, what sort of CFM's would I need for each room?


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## pcduck (Nov 19, 2012)

They make both veg bulbs(6500k) and bloom blubs(2700k) for the t-5's. 
Just make sure you get the 6500k's.

You have roughly 120 cubic feet in your flower room. I like exchanging my grow room air about 3-4 times a minute. So a 360cfm would work but I would go larger because of  any additions(carbon filter,ete) made will cut down on the cfm's.  I like the brand Vortex for my fans so I would put an 6" in the flower and a 4" in veg both with speed controllers.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 19, 2012)

tangerine dream said:
			
		

> But it seems as though they aren't very concentrated at the blue end of the spectrum which is what I thought you needed with vegetative growth.



I'm not sure what you mean by that.  You can buy HO T5 tubes in the 6500K range which is perfect.  Where is your vegging space going to be?

I really see no reason to line the walls of the room with a tarp.  But if you do, make sure that it is reflective.  Just because a surface looks reflective, does not mean that it is--take foil and mirrors for instance.

A 600W is not enough light for the space you are planning.  Because the room is long and narrow, you really need 2 lights.  Even a 1000W would be hard pressed to adequately light the ends of the room.  I have a 1000W in a space 3 x 6.5 and it is just enough to do the 6.5' of length.

I have never used a squirrel cage, but I have 440 cfm centrifuge type fans on both my 1000W and my 600W.  I use a speed controller with both fans.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 19, 2012)

pcduck & The Hemp Goddess - Sorry I must have been looking at the wrong type of bulbs but I see now that they should be perfect. 

So I have been looking at my flowering room lights and I am in agreement that 2 lamps are necessary, would 2 400w be enough or should I just double what I already intended and get 2 600w? It seems like 2 400w would be a little less that optimal. 

Thank you for the ventilation advice also! I will take a gander at the Centrifugal fans.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 19, 2012)

Yes, IMO, 2 600s would be great.  

Not saying that the squirrel cage fans wouldn't work.  I am just not familiar with them.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 19, 2012)

In my experience, the squirrel cage fans work great but are noisier than the centrifugal fans, and they are awkard to set up and connect up to your stuff because of their shape makes the weight off balance and the output flange is always square rather than round.  You won't regret getting 2 600w rather than 400w because the higher lumens and the dual light angles will really eliminate almost all of the shadowing that can cause the lower buds to not fill out as good. With the higher lumens will come denser, more potent buds.


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## Old Resin (Nov 19, 2012)

How many plants do you plan on flowering? It doesn't look to me like you have room for an ebb n flo unless you are going to put the resevoir outside of your room. Also, you may want to consider a wall mount fan or two, and pitch the squirel cage. IMO it would be better to seal the room for CO2 enhancement and cool your lights with a fresh air source-in one side and out the other, or from the outside space if it is cool in your basement.
I know THG will freak when I say this-but a booster fan that kicks on with your lights with a fresh air source will cool your lights and save some money. I cool two 1000w hps this way-you can lay your hand on the fixture.
If I read your print right-you are going to split the large room for flower and veg? If so-1 1000w hps should do you for the flower side-and one t-5 for the veg. Of course, if you seal the room for Co2-you will need an air conditioner and a de-humidifier. I tried to edit your pics with my recomendations but was unable to. 

These hydro units would fit in your space and are very flexible and cost effective-I have 6 of them-
http://www.hydrogrowersusa.com/en/products.php?id=645


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

Old Resin- The reservoir I was thinking could be stored underneath the tray which would contain the plants... if not it could be stored underneath the oscillating fan in the small alcove. The room will be sealed but I haven't decided how I'm going to supply the plants with extra co2 yet.

Just to make sure everyone understands my pictures. If you look at the floorplan there are 2 rooms, 1 larger room and a very small room attached (in the 3d model you can see it has an arched ceiling). The smaller room will contain a table with a fan on it and possibly the reservoir underneath. The larger room will be split into 2 rooms the flowering room and the vegetation room. The bud room will be approximately 6' 9" x 2' 7" x ~5' and the veg room will be 6' 9" x 2' 7" x ~3.5'.

I thought that would be enough for an ebb n flo. I was looking at budding 4 plants at a time (possibly 6 occasionally if possible, but 4 is what we're currently looking at growing). I really thought that about 12.5ft² would be plenty enough room to bud 4 plants, am I being really naive? 

I am going to be purchasing some of the products for my set up tomorrow, probably just lights, ventilation & a partition for the entrance, room separation and for ensuring the room is sealed. Any links which people have found to be good would be greatly appreciated, I'm in the UK. Thanks a lot for the hydroponics set up you linked it looks brilliant. I have been thinking about making my own, it doesn't look particularly difficult and then it can be perfectly customised for my obscure room dimensions. But this still hasn't been decided.

Hushpuppy your input on lighting is also appreciated.


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

> 2 400w be enough or should I just double what I already intended and get 2 600w?



Room dimensions:

2.58' X 8.25' = 21.28 square feet. The square footage(sqft) of your flower room.

21.28sqft X 5000 lumens(min lumens needed for flower) = 106,425 lumens needed.

 A 400 watt Digilux bulb initial lumens is 60,000 lumens X 2 would be 120,000 total initial lumens. That gives you 5639 lumens/sqft for your flower room.

A 600 watt Digilux bulb initial lumens is 95,000 lumens X 2 would be 190,000 total initial lumens. That gives you 8928 lumens/sqft for your flower room.

The shape of your flower room really dictates that 2 lights would be better then 1.

Both would work, but the 2 600's would be better, growers choice.

These dimensions were taken from your original post. And know I see you have changed,





> 6' 9" x 2' 7" x ~5'


 so these are no good


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

My flower room wont be 2.58' X 8.25', the shape of the room essentially renders the smaller room (with the arched ceiling) useless for growing, so the 2.58' X 8.25' room is going to be split into 2 rooms. 1 room that is approximately 2' 7" x ~5' and another room approximately 2' 7" x ~3.5'. If you look at the 3d models you should be able to see how I intend to use this space. The smaller room (4' 7" x 2' 9" x 2' 7") will be used for storage of the fan and possibly reservoir for the budding room.

I have just made another picture which should explain things better.


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

2.5 X 5 = 12.9 sqft X 5000 =64,500 lumens needed. 1 600 would work for flower room. Would be a bit more difficult to get good light spread because of the length. May need to turn hood to find best coverage.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

In 12.9ft² how many plants do you think I could flower? And do you think that last picture is the best way to optimise this oddly shaped room?


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

Depending on what size plants you grow 4-5, maybe can squeeze a 6th in there. If you grow like I do.

Where are the entrances? Do you have separate entrances for all rooms? I like the room set-up just need to be able to maneuver easily.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

No, this is 1 of the issues, the only entrance is located at the far left of the floor plan, so I would need to walk through the veg room to get to the flowering room. maneuverability is going to be 1 of my greatest difficulties.


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

That just cut your plant count in half, as you would need to squeeze by both rooms to get to your storage area. Entrance Doors for both areas are really needed. May want to re-thing the hydro growing and go with a different system and/or media.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

Hopefully this will give you a better idea of things.

Try to combine this with the 3d models.


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

Yea, It is just 2'7" is not much width. Would need to grow smaller size plants to get around them.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

but if the reservoir is stored in a container below the plants, I would be able to just slide it out. I would have a friend helping with the water changing etc. I would have the controls for the fans located near the tarpaulin partition. So I wouldn't need to get close to them.


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

My reservoir would be to big to just slide out to change out the nutes and do a complete res change. hint: Look into one of those battery operated kerosene transfer pumps. 

You will always need to get close to them:aok: To check them for insects, nute problems,ete and when they get heavy with buds you will either need to stake them or be able to tie them up so they don't just fall over.

2 people in a 2'7" space with big bushy girls


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

I was thinking of doing water changes with a pump... do you think this would solve a lot of my maneuverability issues? In terms of checking the plants, I think with some ninja skills I could make it into that alcove containing the fan to check the back plants. Obviously this space isn't ideal... but it's my only choice.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

just looked at those battery operated kerosene transfer pumps, it looks perfect. I am worrying about space much less now. Like I said, in terms of checking the plants I am confident I will be able to access all of them.


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

If you got to you will Yes the pump will help It sure did for me, plus saves a lot of time. Hydro involves moving a lot of water and the closer and easier the water is, the more enjoyment you will have growing. Just wanted to let ya know that is a tight space and will take some maneuverability.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

Now you know the dimensions of the room, I understand that 1 600w bulb should provide more than enough light for that space but would the coverage be ok? should I perhaps go for 2 lower watt lamps to aid with coverage?


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

This really depends on the footprint of your reflector and the orientation. If using an a/c reflector it be would the easiest just set it up so that your duct work is running the same direction of your room, but your light spread would be better if you rotated it 90 degrees, and use a couple of  90 elboes.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

So you think the lights should be facing horizontally rather than hanging from the ceiling pointing downwards?


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

No... I don't grow that way but some do...By orientation I mean the angled sides of your reflector would be horizontal to your length and the flat side would be horizontal to the narrow side. From above, this make the reflector footprint longer down the length.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

ahhhh I see, just so I know we're on the same page, is this the sort of thing you were trying to describe... sorry for the crudeness of the drawing, it was rushed.


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

Yep... and I am looking down the long length of your room


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

Had to edit the above post because it did not make sense.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

yes that was the idea, the view is standing by the partition and looking down the length of the room at the back wall..... so 2 400w lamps?


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## Old Resin (Nov 20, 2012)

I was thinking of the ebb n gro-with the pots and 30 gal res barrel-not the flood table-those are still over $200. I think if you use a cool tube instead of a hooded light-you will get more light spread-but with only 4 plants you should be able to move them tight enough under one light. I recomended 1 light as opposed to 2-as a cost base suggestion. 1-1000w digilux hps = 155,000 lumens.
A minigen co2 generator would work pretty sweet for you in your space. The C.A.P co2 controller is the most economical and works well. If $$$ is an issue, you could start with the Exhale co2 bags and add a generator later as $$$ becomes available. IMO it's most economical to just buy your end result desired equipment first-depends on how patient you are.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

But since I only have a 12.9ft² flowering area I wouldn't need a 1000w lamp, the only reason I was thinking about 2 lamps was because of coverage. To be honest I think I am going to end up building my own hydroponic system because of my restricted width and everything is going to be a very tight fit so I don't think an ebb n flo system will be *TOO* expensive... it's just a large tray and a container with some pumps and tubes. 

Why would you suggest your method? Because I was thinking the flood table would be a good method.


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## Old Resin (Nov 20, 2012)

A couple of suggestions for your space


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

sorry, I can't relate that diagram to my space. Could you save and edit my original floorplan picture I posted in the original post.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=198020&d=1353164096


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

I am unable to up load it
I think once you get the reflector you will see what I mean.

The room is a long rectangle with 2 long side and 2 short sides.
The reflector is a long rectangle with 2 long side and 2 short sides.
The reflectors 2 short side will be parallel to the rooms 2 long side.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 20, 2012)

pcduck- I was talking to Old Resin


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## pcduck (Nov 20, 2012)

tangerine dream said:
			
		

> pcduck- I was talking to Old Resin



opps sorry

I would suggest ya get a few grows under you belt before even thinking of co2. As far as those exhale bags I would not waste my money. There is absolutely no way to control how much co2 is produced or when.


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## Old Resin (Nov 20, 2012)

I can't seem to edit your photo's-it's a front view-go stand in front of your room and look at it. I recomend removing the little cubby, where you want to put the squirel cage, and replacing it with a door to your flower room. partition the room to make your veg-and leave the existing door.
I sduggested the hydro system because it will fit in your space-and you should be able to get 6 grow sites from it(add or remove pots)-as I mentioned in my other post-when you said ebb n flo-I thought ebb n gro-comes with 6 pots and a 30 gallon resevoir barrel-it's large and expensive.
I also think that you will find that after you price everything out, and spend the time building it-it will be very close to the same cost.
My lighting recomendation is also for cost-one ballast-one bulb-one fixture.
The minigen co2 unit is the most cost effective unit unless you can find something else on sale-but it is also very small-good for your space.
I don't know what kind of condition your basement is in-but here, they are mostly moldy and musty-not what you want for ventilation for your girls. Thats why I recomend sealing the room for co2 and using a frewsh air source from outside. Also-if you use the fresh air source to cool your lights-you are not venting any smell-and don't need a charcoal filter($$$).
I grow in a 4'x9'x6' canning cellar in my basement-I make these recomendations from my own experience growing in a basement,(a crappy one at that).
This is my grow-week 7:http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=63049


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## Old Resin (Nov 20, 2012)

As for the Exhale bags-no way to control it-but I seen a marked improvementt in my crop after using them-so I bought a co2 generator=greater improvement.


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## Old Resin (Nov 20, 2012)

I hope this helps..


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## tangerine dream (Nov 22, 2012)

Sorry that I haven't been able to come on lately, like I said I only have chance to look at this forum at work But I feel that I should clear some things up about my growing space.

It is located in my basement, and is a little hallway that is situated by the stairs, all of the walls seen in this picture 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



are uneditable as that is where the stairs are, the smaller alcove (with the curved arch) I'm guess is just some of the available space underneath the stairs.

The wall in this image 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	



faces the rest of my basement and this is where my exhaust ducts will go, this wall is somewhat modifiable if needed. 

FYI Old Resin- the alcove is being used for a oscillating fan not my squirrel cage fan.

I will post a new picture which should clear some things ups


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## tangerine dream (Nov 22, 2012)

Ok this is looking straight down my grow room but the rest of the basement is included. there is also a chimney down there, it is bricked up at the moment, but I thought it would be worth mentioning.

As you can see the vents will exhaust air out and into my garden, possibly higher up than displayed in the picture. 

The room is made entirely of brick.


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## pcduck (Nov 22, 2012)

> this wall is somewhat modifiable if needed.



If this is the wall facing away from the stairs, I sure would try putting a door in it to your flower room


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## tangerine dream (Nov 22, 2012)

yes... this could be an idea  sure would make things a hell of a lot easier! If not I am considering at least some sort of window... its just that it's a brick wall and would require some building effort, we have an in house builder who could help out but he is usually busy with other tasks.


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## pcduck (Nov 22, 2012)

Yes it would.

Would take out most of the aggravation of crawling around with water. You would enjoy your gardening experience a whole lot more


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## tangerine dream (Nov 22, 2012)

pcduck- I was also wondering if you thought 2 400w lamps would be enough for that room, considering you said I only need 65,000 lumens and since 400w bulb should output 60,000 lumens 2 should be plenty.


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## Old Resin (Nov 22, 2012)

Did youy consider possibly using the room to flower and getting a tent/constructing other structure for veg? Or are you married to the dual use of this room?


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## tangerine dream (Nov 23, 2012)

I suppose that could be a possibility, after planning it all out I am starting to realise that the narrowness of this room is an issue. It is definitely something to consider.


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## tangerine dream (Nov 23, 2012)

would a de humidifier be necessary in my flowering room? or is that something to condsider at a later date?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 23, 2012)

Whether you need a dehumidifier depends on the humidity of your space.  I have to add a humidifier to my space.


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## tangerine dream (Jun 9, 2013)

tote dimensions


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## pcduck (Jun 9, 2013)

I would wait until I had it in full operation before worry about a dehumidifier/ humidifier. The use of one depends on what your humidity is like, plus the type of growing. When I have watering bubbling(DWC) it raises the humidity on its own.


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## tangerine dream (Jun 9, 2013)

sorry PC I posted that image in the wrong thread, please dis regard this thread, as this design is old.


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