# We really need a Breeding and propagation section



## Mutt (Sep 7, 2006)

Just wanted to get a question answered and realized the section it NEEDS to be in doesn't exist. But with the current problems didn't want to bug MarP about something trivial.

Question:
When finishing out seeded bud. Do you let it grow till its almost dead? or harvest when the trichs are ready?
Also on the lower "fluffy" less light buds. Will the seeds be more likely non-viable or sub-standard? This one is important to me as I don't want to accidently mix em up with the tops if this is the case.
Never seeded one ID or really intentionally before. I do know a trained tied and topped male is about the wierdest thing to look at.   LOL


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## I_H8_MY_X (Sep 7, 2006)

When finishing out seeded bud. Do you let it grow till its almost dead? or harvest when the trichs are ready?

Hi Mutt,

I read this on Harvesting Drying & Curing its a sticky Hick wrote.. has some pictures and stuff which is good to know..


http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1938


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## Mutt (Sep 7, 2006)

Thank I H8 my X. but this is a sorta breeding question not a harvest/cure kinda question. I look at trich color, but seed viability may be different and really what the question is focused on.


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## Ptbo_Stonerz (Sep 7, 2006)

Mutt. I don't know for a fact, but with thoes Lowriders I seeded, (In the journal section), I waited till the trichs were half brown/cloudy. The bud was good but 3/4 of my seeds are no good. I germinated 10 seeds, 5 cracked open so I planted them, they came out of the soil about an inch then they died. The only thing I can figure happened is i didnt let the seeds mature enough. The pack of 11 Lowrider seeds I purchased I got 9 to grow to fully mature plants. I'll leave this open to some more experienced growers because this is just my first experience with making seeds.
Why don't you ask the Doc, (doc. Chronic), he should be able to help Mutt.


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## Mutt (Sep 7, 2006)

Thanks man for the input. Talked it over with another member here (thanks..you know who you are.  ). He said to wait until the Calyx just starts to break open with the seed. Trich color is not taken into consideration. and to get the most viable seeds is to do a partial harvest and work my way down the plant. The lower fluffly buds will have smaller seeds. but not less viable if done this way. Just for any others that have the same question.


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## I_H8_MY_X (Sep 7, 2006)

sorry mutt misunderstood the question, I thought breeding is the same as growing or flowering...


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## Mutt (Sep 7, 2006)

No problem dude. Making seeds is different than growing sens. bud. Selection process is more rigid and how you fert is different as well. You don't flush at all and keep nitrogen as well as the bloom fert. Ussually seeded bud is harsher because of this. But the point is to make your own crosses and seeds so you don't have to buy more. . I myself HATE payin for seeds. Esp. the cost of seeds. Its highway robbery on some. I agree the breeders are needed and deserve there dollars for all there hard work. I'll never dispute that. But 10-20 bucks a seed come on. that makes one plant worth a huge amount of bucks.


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## skunk (Sep 7, 2006)

whoever you spoke with mutt is correct in my breeding exsperience . i had thecalyxs break open as soon as 6 weeks into flowering . but i also made sure i pollenated 2 times or more earlier than late to make sure i had seeds to share with friends.


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## I_H8_MY_X (Sep 7, 2006)

wow that sounds complicated... too much for me at this time... the seeds I got where from a friends, this sure has been a learning curve for me, its really kept me on my toes and appreciate plants alot more... good luck with your seed growing project... wanna here rip off...

Our Canadian government is charging money for medical marijuana... the price is a rip off... $5.00cdn per gram plus taxes, they gotta be kidding me and they say the police destroy's the crops when they raid grow ops...please i think they've been smoking something rotten... I think they should give the shit away to people who need it...


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## bejohnst (Sep 8, 2006)

Mutt,

Quick question how you pollinated your female. Did you put a male and female in a seperate room and let it be done naturally? I'm interested in cross breading this time around. I only have one chamber and want to just do a bud site or two. Is this even worth it in your opinion?


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## Mutt (Sep 8, 2006)

I'm flowering the male under a 250W. I treat the male just as good as a female. I will collect pollen, dry it, put it in a couple of film canisters and freeze. That way I have more control and freedom when it comes to pollenating. and not limited to just the ones I'm flowering at the moment. I think Hick told me I have a year to use it. So that gives me quite a bit of time to work with it.
To me its worth it to make a few crosses and see if they turn out good. Plus dusting a branch or two is great. still end up with some seeds and regular good ole unseeded bud.
But I do have a NL female clone in with it.. gonna cover that whole thing and collect pollen for future use.


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## Hick (Sep 8, 2006)

bejohnst..collect the pollen and carefully brush it on a single branch or flower cluster with an artists paintbrush or Q-tip swab with no fan or wind present. One grain of pollen + one pistill = one seed.


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## can of ownage (Sep 8, 2006)

just jumping in this thread... when u collect pollen whats the safest and best way to do it? and ive never done this but it sounds like u can "half seed" a plant? like have the plant grow normally and just have a couple branches seed? this is some real interesting stuff....ahh and while im here..... how do feminiazed seeds come to be? they say they back pollenate females..... how in the world??? thats like saying u back sexed a couple women to create a couple daughters for them...... doesnt sound logical... and yea i agree ive read almost everything on the site but the question still remains..... HOW IN THE WORLD DO I GET PLANT A AND PLANT B TO GIVE ME PLANT C????

and dont say just put a male and female in the same room .... i want some controlled type thing going on... dont want to try and breed 2 plants and be like *** at the end.... lol... try crossing NL and BlueBerry to get.....shrooms??? 

but in all seriousness any advice on this? i would love to read up on this


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## astra007 (Sep 8, 2006)

on my O/D grows which are separated by miles.  i collect the seeded bud as the bud swells - puts on weight in the last weeks of flower, then i shake the the buds in a seed shaker.  you must not handle the seeds anymore then needed and then with gloves on.  pick out all the white 1's and discard = twizzers.  i place them in airtight containers and store in a cool dark place not a freezer as you dont want moisture in the seed to freeze.  hope this helps.


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## Hick (Sep 8, 2006)

*TOTALLY* segregate the "chosen" male. If you plan to flower him only once, you can simply set him on a mirror, sheet of glass, or any _clean_ flat surface and let him do his stuff. The pollen will drop onto the glass and is easily scraped up and collected with a razor blade. 
It should be _dry_ and have all of the plant material(flower petals,ect) removed before it goes into an "air tight" container with a descicant pack or a few grains of rice to absorb any moisture.
  It can then be stored for long term use. Either in the freezer or in the 'crisper' drawer of the fridge for shorter term. Freezing it keeps it viable for a longer period of time, but can only be thawed once, in my experience. If you want to use it multiple times, make individual packages to freeze it in. 

  Once you have chosen the female you wish to pollinate, defrost the pollen to room temp and apply it to any individual branch or bud with a small artist type paint brush or Q-tip swabb.. Leave the circulation fan off during pollination. Any residual pollen can be spread by the fan.


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## Hick (Sep 8, 2006)

astra007 said:
			
		

> on my O/D grows which are separated by miles.  i collect the seeded bud as the bud swells - puts on weight in the last weeks of flower, then i shake the the buds in a seed shaker.  you must not handle the seeds anymore then needed and then with gloves on.  pick out all the white 1's and discard = twizzers.  i place them in airtight containers and store in a cool dark place not a freezer as you dont want moisture in the seed to freeze.  hope this helps.



"Ditto"...I agree. Don't freeze seeds. A "_cool dry_" place is best for seeds.


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## can of ownage (Sep 8, 2006)

thanx hick that answers alot of questions except 1 really... how do u feminize seeds? im not sure if any1 here knows how but the only thing ive ever heard is to back pollenate females? how does that really work? how can u really pollenate 2 females with each other? like i said its like saying in human terms that u bred 2 females to alway produce female off spring... its just really bothering me that i dont know....


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## astra007 (Sep 8, 2006)

dutch passion had a good write up somewhere about fem seeds as they were the first to commercially sell them.  gibberellic acid - google it  or go to:  www.super-grow.com   good write up there


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## astra007 (Sep 8, 2006)

why not move this to the GERMINATION CATEGORY as it does involve aspects thereof?  also that category is not used much.


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## can of ownage (Sep 12, 2006)

thanx astra now alot of questions can be answered


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## seattle420 (Sep 14, 2006)

true breeding of marijuana takes years and years to get enough plants.

I wouldn't reccomend it for most people especially if they haven't grown for many many years.

A true breeding strain is two plants bred over and over until their offspring show consistent traits of their combined parentage. Most hybrid crosses are unstable in this regard. Maybe twenty percent will be identical to thier parents. The only way to reproduce them consistently is to clone them. Most of the true breeders are landraces that did not reproduce and select indoors. It is not a matter of weak genetics or good ones it is a matter of consistent expression of a valued genotype in the phenotype.


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## seattle420 (Sep 14, 2006)

I would NOT reccomend "BREEDING" marijuana.

you'd have to be one hell of a farmer with one hell of a big farm to do it properly.

A true breeding strain is two plants bred over and over until their offspring show consistent traits of their combined parentage.

 Most hybrid crosses are unstable in this regard.

 Maybe twenty percent will be identical to thier parents. the rest will be swhag.

The only way to reproduce them consistently is to clone them.

 Most of the true breeders are landraces that did not reproduce and select indoors.

 It is not a matter of weak genetics or good ones it is a matter of consistent expression of a valued genotype in the phenotype

if you all of a sudden find just a few seeds in your buds, you've only got a 20 percent cjhance that it is any good.

 say you missed a male plant in the back of your grow your gonna have to bleach the hell out of your room cause there's pollen everywhere and you wann grow marijuana san seeds. SINSEMILIA! if your breeding alot of seeds in a short amount of time they will more than likely be hermie swhag.

get some real deal seeds, choose mother plants, and then clone the hell out of em!


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## astra007 (Sep 14, 2006)

ah, tell me oh wise 1 - where do you purchase a mother plant?  and breeders want pollen.  if ya dont know what yer talking about -

im a breeder and have several breeder buds - you definately have never been in a breeder set up; now have you.  you can use any F1 to breed with or a land based original.  look up the definition of an F1.  and we use seed not clones.


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## can of ownage (Sep 14, 2006)

astra ur the one that lead me here from 3 different forums all in kindness and in the light of a promise for some knowledge so im dying to see this section do u think u could just mayb write a lil bit of what u know and what needs to be done what to look for how to do it etc.? your my weed rolemodle ( i know that sounds bad ) but could u just write a lil at a time to help us noobs out? ( and thanx for answering my email... id be lost without ur guidance)


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## seattle420 (Sep 14, 2006)

oh moderate one astra, you are the one who always answers my posts as soon as I post em.
 man, you sure are on your computer alot.

when do you find enough time to breed all those plants?

I didn't say anything about your suggestion except that *I* Me*myself*
wouldn't reccomend breeding marijuana indoors anywhere except maybe holland.

I'd just say this, there ought to be two sections, one for "PROPAGATION" (doesn't that mean cloning r cutting)
and one for "BREEDING"

yeah man, learn about breeding on a forum, good idea!
the world needs more schwag.

 to answer your question:

I get the mother plant from some seeds that were imported from holland.


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## astra007 (Sep 14, 2006)

hey can - go to indoor growing and i will answer all you ask or you can pm me - no problem.  ok bud.  and seattle - plants grow by themselves and im disabled so ya i do spend alot of time on my computer - your point?  and any female plant can be a clone mother my friend.  does not have to come from holland.  what you want to breed 2 plants are 2 separate F1 stable hybrids.  you will then get only 2 separate pheno's wherein each is dominent.  the male or the female line.  then ya choose.


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## Mutt (Sep 14, 2006)

seattle420 said:
			
		

> yeah man, learn about breeding on a forum, good idea!
> the world needs more schwag.
> 
> to answer your question:
> ...


 
Well, I beg to differ to that entire statement. Where do you think a lot of seeds come from. Some of those "famous" breeders DO live in the states. What about new strains. Where do you think those come from. Dude, this is such an "un-educated" answer to making crosses, trait isolation, hybridization. 
Schwagg HA. Its all in how you do it. Try doing some reading before making such a statement please. 
Google, Robert Connel Clark; Mendel's Law; Backcrossing; Marijuana Trait isolation; and just about anything written by SOMA or DJ Short. That'll get you started on the right path.


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## Hick (Sep 14, 2006)

astra007 said:
			
		

> ah, tell me oh wise 1 - where do you purchase a mother plant?  and breeders want pollen.  if ya dont know what yer talking about - s.t.f.u.
> 
> im a breeder and have several breeder buds - you definately have never been in a breeder set up; now have you.  you can use any F1 to breed with or a land based original.  look up the definition of an F1.  and we use seed not clones.



"Breeding" and "seed makeing" are two totally different aspects. 
"Breeding" requires a facility where numerous males and females can be grown to maturity for carefull selection of desirable traits from various phenotypes.After several generations of back crossing and inner breeding, you _may_ be lucky enough to produce a stable F1.  
Seattle is correct in saying "breeding should be left to those with a fluent understanding of genetics and heredity, along with a facility that accomodates for it." Breeders are people like Shantibaba, DJ Short, Breeder Steve, Chimera, ect.

"Seed makeing" only requires a female plant and a bit of pollen. We can all do this!! and seed makeing is what astra is talking about.."IMHO" and not _breeding_. 
I would still urge even the lowly seedmakers () to use some selection process in their efforts. *"Choose only the best[/u] do away with the rest." ..select for qualities that you desire and are beneficial to further improving the chacteristics of the plants.  
F1 hybrids (the first cross of two diffeent strains) will quite often produce a very desirable fast growing, good producing plant(hybrid vigor). Often exhibiting  near 50/50 characteristics of the parent plants and all quite similar. 
(example: White widow female X Blueberry pollen) This forms an F1 hybrid and not a "Blue Widow". F2's will exhibit more diversity. Here's where large facilities and 'educated selection' come into play. Here is a simple bit of math that reflects the possible(hypothetical) # of variances through an F3 hybridization.
[FONT=&quot]"P-1: Usually on P-1 being the parent Generation there are 2 variances or phenotypes. [/FONT][FONT=&quot]

F-1: This being the first finial generation from the parent line. 
F-1 can have as many as 4-8 different phenotypes.

F-2: Being the second finial generation from the parent line. 
F-2 can produce as many as 16-32 different phenotypes.

F-3: This being the third finial generation from the parent line.
F-3 can produce as many as 64-128 different phenotypes."[/FONT] 

The crossing of two parents of the same 'stabalized' strain(P1s),(example WWxWW) should produce plants that closely resemble the parent strain. The problem here, is called "inbreeding depression".   (Caused by the deletion/elimination of certain "alleles" over generations) Causing a loss of vigor and overall plant health and quality. Eventually leading to a less desirable product. 
I'm NOT trying to discourage anyone from makeing seeds, quite the opposite. I would still encourage interested people to make that hybrid cross, make yourself a few seeds, make enough to pass a few on to a prospective grower free gratis. I'm all for getting as many quality seeds into as many prospective growers hands as is possible without further depleting the genetic diversity of the plant.*


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## Mutt (Sep 14, 2006)

Hey Hick,
Isn't it the early flowering males that cause a decrease in the potency of the hybrid. Isn't it the healthy late flowering Male crossed with a healthy desired female?
And yeah, breeding and seed making are different. I think I throw around the term "breeding" to loosely. Breeding takes years. Making a batch of seeds for yerself takes once. LOL 
but back to topic. I still think the mis-conception that people making there own seeds is producing schwagg seeds is false.
Its all in the slesction process. IMHO.


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## Hick (Sep 14, 2006)

I agree, to a point mutt. "Selection" is imparative, but selection from  "diversity" is also important. 
I agree that early flowering males are 'less' desirable candidates for parentage, in most cases. And I absolutely dis-agree with the statement that "seed makers" are producing schwagg or schwagg seeds, "IF" the pollination was made with a purpose and NOT hermie related.
 Even an open pollination of plants will produce a quality hybrids in most cases. It is when you get into a few generations of inbreeding that the health and vigor can begin to deteriate due to "inbreeding depression". 
When/if this occurs, it can often be re-instilled with an outcross to another P1 or F1 hybrid.


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## astra007 (Sep 14, 2006)

the whole problem arises with north american "breeders" that dont take the time to stablize a hybrid IMHO.  d.j. shorts and breeder steve as well as simon from serious have worked their strains for over 10 years, while numerous n. american breeders like dan k., jordon or res dog have created unstable hybrids in their race to market the wonder bean.  then these strains are cross bred with god knows what.  

i have taken an old school blueberry female and "bred" it with a male land based original for over 5 years.  for 3 seasons it has proven to have only 1 pheno consistantly.  we have bred it back as you say; always using the same genetic materials.  so what are we?   hhhmmmm.  our b/b is mainly SATIVA like the original b/b not the new b/b bred for the indoor market that is 80% indica.  and it was crossed originally with another sativa but a heavy producer.  we were told that we have created an outdoor breeder strain that is a F1 stable by a geneticist and botanist.  but who knows as she is canadian?  eh?  oh ya hick, you dont need a lab or a thousand plants; just hard work and time.


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## Hick (Sep 14, 2006)

*P.S.....A Breeding and Propogation"* section is being formulated by MarP as we speak...


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## astra007 (Sep 14, 2006)

oh and i do make seeds too.  im not pissed off or anything; just 1 of a team that has spent alot of time and resources in developing an unique strain.  so i guess im a little of both. a "breeder"  and a "seed maker"   hehehe


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## Hick (Sep 14, 2006)

OK astra, I can agree wholeheartedly with your NA breeders analogy. BUT what I see you have done is 'further' propogate the BB by selectively xing "your" preferred phenos to produce a BB pheno that you like. You haven't created a "new strain". And I agree wholeheartedly that much of the diversity has been eliminated (especially with the NA "breeders") by selecting toward early flowering and short plants. Which are great for an indoor friendly environment, but eliminates the sat. side of the chacteristics, which also depletes diversity.
I never said "breeding" couldn't be achieved with smaller facilities, but the oppurtunity to discover and capture those "exceptional" pheno's/chacterisitics ARE greatly reduced. "Breeders" call us "closet hacks".


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## Mutt (Sep 14, 2006)

Hick said:
			
		

> I never said "breeding" couldn't be achieved with smaller facilities, but the oppurtunity to discover and capture those "exceptional" pheno's/chacterisitics ARE greatly reduced.


 
I notice a lot of articles and posting on certain seedbank forums. That top breeders make routine visits to morrocco and Africa and well all over the place. Collecting, studying, and colaborating trying to find charecteristics from any variety they can get there hands on. Then working with those choices to find the "holy grail".
I read an article by DJ Short. He stated his "dream" place to breed would be a stadium with those super 4K MH all over the place. To allow each plant to show its self without any limiting factors such as confined space and things of that nature. I'll see if I can find that link though..was interesting regarding Sativas mainly. I'll do a quick browse around my link library.

Edit: here it is. How to bring out the Sativa and breed the ultimate buds

Also, you said something about hybrids and there phenotype varying. I don't know... some hybrids and how they grow are utterly amazing. Yes it is a PITA when I order seeds and the pheno is all over the place. I feel "jipped" but when getting a hybrid f3 or something and seein it grow compared to the others is just fun. Every now and then I like to mix things up. Not grow the same old same old. IMHO


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## seattle420 (Sep 14, 2006)

You haven't created a "new strain".


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## Mutt (Sep 14, 2006)

seattle420 said:
			
		

> You haven't created a "new strain".


 
HA, I freakin wish. LOL
At about 1 buck a pop per seed, one plant would make me retire. 

But I gotta say it. How many times have people been ripped off around here. I mean sub-standard seeds, or F2's and being told they were F1's from so-called "respectable" seed banks. Or worse yet no seeds at all. To me those its a crap shoot no matter what you do. but you do get a feel for who you can trust somewhat..but then you gotta deal with confiscation. 100 bucks worth of seeds gettin nabbed, or hermie, or have traits all over the place is part of the game I guess. and when they are "authentic" they are a freakin fortune. I like variety, but payin the prices I been seein. Good gawd.


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## astra007 (Sep 14, 2006)

mutt, i agree with ya.  and hick, i agree that in the fine sense of the word - no we are not *PROFESSIONAL breeders. *  all mj started from land based originals; correct?  theres about 1000 produced by mother nature.  where did the other 9,000 plus come from? ours has b/b, ultimate thai, white russian, a n.a. skunk, afghani, kush and a south america strain in the make up.  all bred to create a blueberry flavored, heavy outdoor yeilder, mold resistant, high THC hybrid that grows well in higher altitudes with minimum care.  a 85% sativa dom.
i forget that im speakin to experts sometimes with a long time experience.


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## seattle420 (Sep 14, 2006)

I wouldn't want to get moderated out of this web page.

all I said was my opinion.

forgive my freedom of speech.

 I have been growing for ten years, and never saw any need for "breeding"

I just grow nice well chosen mother plants and clone them, and regenerate them as well.

 I don't care if my writing bores you. or anyone else.


if you don't like it, just ignore me.
 I hate that!


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## Mutt (Sep 14, 2006)

This turned into a debate. No worries here. Thought there was at first..but hey its opinion, no flaming. 
Debate away IMHO.


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## Hick (Sep 15, 2006)

Maybe my 'definition' of a "Breeder" or breeding, is overly judgemental. But I am NOT "dissing" anyone when I say "seedmaker". I don't mean it in any disrespectfull manner. I consider myself a 'hobbiest' seedmaker. By no stretch of the definition would I consider myself a "Breeder", by my definition.


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## P. BLAZUH (Sep 15, 2006)

Hick said:
			
		

> *TOTALLY* segregate the "chosen" male. If you plan to flower him only once, you can simply set him on a mirror, sheet of glass, or any _clean_ flat surface and let him do his stuff. The pollen will drop onto the glass and is easily scraped up and collected with a razor blade.
> It should be _dry_ and have all of the plant material(flower petals,ect) removed before it goes into an "air tight" container with a descicant pack or a few grains of rice to absorb any moisture.
> It can then be stored for long term use. Either in the freezer or in the 'crisper' drawer of the fridge for shorter term. Freezing it keeps it viable for a longer period of time, but can only be thawed once, in my experience. If you want to use it multiple times, make individual packages to freeze it in.
> 
> Once you have chosen the female you wish to pollinate, defrost the pollen to room temp and apply it to any individual branch or bud with a small artist type paint brush or Q-tip swabb.. Leave the circulation fan off during pollination. Any residual pollen can be spread by the fan.


 How far into flowering should  the female plant be before you brush on the pollen?


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## Hick (Sep 15, 2006)

I like to dust them early, soon after pistils start to form buds. That provides ample time for the seeds to ripen well, and allows for a 'some' seedless bud formation after the pollination. 
It takes a minimum of 4 weeks for seeds to form and mature.


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## skunk (Sep 17, 2006)

i do mine at appr. 2 weeks into flower then again at 2in a half weeks to make sure i have pollenated but then again thats just me .


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## AeroTX (Sep 20, 2006)

how do the know what seeds will be female and which will be male? i picked up this booklet form a shop in amsterdam that sold seeds of many great strains and they say that the seeds are all female, how does this work?


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## seattle420 (Sep 20, 2006)

it's botany 

look up gibberellic acid

 but why mess with mother nature?
 she never likes that!
 you shoulda just picked up some seeds
and left the pamplets.


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## Mutt (Sep 20, 2006)

There are other methods of feminizing seeds than the use of gibbeleric Acid. but I agree why put chemicals like that on herb. Also when that chemical is used, it makes the bud unsmokable. So you basically going for fem'd seeds with unsmokable bud. But it is not as easy as it sounds.


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## seattle420 (Sep 20, 2006)

"But it is not as easy as it sounds."
 and also it's not nessacary.
it takes too much time to do it.

and there are hazards.
 that's why I do not suggest breeding for the average grower.

just get a hold of some really good seeds, probabaly from holland, and grow them and then choose a few for mother plants and clone away!

when you just breed willy-nilly all you ened up with is 20 percent good,
 80 percent SWHAAG

 steve kubby has a way to adjust the lighting to produce more female plants.
 from seeds it's in his video, which I have yet to see.


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## seattle420 (Sep 20, 2006)

18.3 Producing Female Seeds http://www.dutch-ganja.com/sexual-variants-in-cannabis.html

If it were possible to know which seeds are female and which are male, marijuana growing would be even simpler than it is. There is not practical way to discern the gender of a seed - but there is a simpler procedure for producing seeds that will all grow into female plants. 

To produce feminized seeds, the plants are fertilised with pollen with male flowers that appear on a basically female plant. Such flowers appear on intersexes, reversed females, and hermaphrodites (see section 17). Female plants have an XX complement of sex chromosomes; therefore, the pollen from the male flowers that form on female plants can only carry an X chromosome. All seeds produced from flowers fertilised with this "female" pollen will thus have an XX pair of sex chromosomes, which is the female genotype. 

Although the male Cannabis plant can produce female flowers, it cannot produce seed; so there is no chance of mistakenly producing seed on a male plant. It is possible to use pollen from an intersexual plant that is basically male (XY); the resulting crop of seeds will have the normal 1:1 ratio of males to females. For this reason, choose a plant that is distinctly female as a pollen source. A female plant with a few random male-flower clusters, or a female plant that has reversed sex are both good pollen sources. The seed bearer can be any female, female intersex, or reversed-female plant. 

In most crops, careful inspection of all the females usually reveals a few male flowers. And often, when females are left flowering for an extended period of time, some male flowers will develop. If no male flowers form, you can help to induce male flowers on female plants by severe pruning. One such procedure is to take the bulk of the harvest, but to leave behind some green leaves to maintain growth (as described in the section on "Double Harvests" in section 20). Most of the plants will continue to form female flowers, but male flowers are also likely to form. At times, the plants may not grow particularly well, and may in fact form distorted and twisted leaves, but they will produce viable seeds as long as some stigmas were white when pollinated. (Remember, it only takes a few fertile buds to produce hundreds of seeds.) Pollinate the female flowers by hand as soon as pollen becomes available. 
{Figure 82. A solitary male flower on a female plant provides "female" pollen. (Also see Figure 84 for a female reversing sex.)} {Figure 83. Growth may not be vigorous, but seeds will form if stigmas are white when pollinated.} 

Under artificial lights, turn the light cycle down to eight hours after cutting the plants back. The short cycle helps to induce male flowers on female plants. 

Male-free seed can also be produced by pollen from a natural hermaphrodites. The progeny, however, may inherit the hermaphroditic trait, resulting in a crop with some hermaphrodites as well as females. This could be a problem if you want to grow sinsemilla the next crop.


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## seattle420 (Sep 20, 2006)

sounds like alot of work, I think I'll stick to my bonafide seeds and clones


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## Mutt (Sep 20, 2006)

seattle420 said:
			
		

> "But it is not as easy as it sounds."
> and also it's not nessacary.
> it takes too much time to do it.
> 
> ...


 
I actually agree.  
but...if you willing and able to to spend the years it takes to "create" your own. (without hacking others work) then go for it. but read, study, and let it become more than a hobby. Me I'll settle for my own crosses and a little trait isolation and backcrossing for fun. but thats because I'm fascinated with herb in itself. but not that I would ever attempt "breeding" for sale. but to me crossing and stuff is not such a bad thing. It means free seeds. some might not be great, but you never know when you'll stumble into a great pheno. but..its not easy, its actually frustrating, time consuming, and I notice dry spell of no sens bud. So it is a sacrifice. But I love growing just as much as smoking. I'll do it till the day I die. its not yeild or potency for me, its the love of gardening it.


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## skunk (Sep 20, 2006)

i have read about this long time ago and have collected my female bannanas and ended up losing them before i had the chance to breed . but to make things sound less complicated . let your female go aproximately 10 to 14 days longer in flower than the due date then it will volunteerly form male bannanas with pollen in it . then you wait for another female into flower that has been there for appr. 2 to 2in ahalf weeks into flower  then pollenate it like you would with male pollen . just keep in mind to stick the male bannana in the freezer in a freezer bag or somen so you wont lose it like me . another way that i would not do is to stress it out after the forth week into flower with light stress , fertizer stress , ect.  but then your looking at the hermie genes . the best way would be the 1st way just time  just 2 more weeks into flowering .


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