# Why do you add lime?



## lyfespan

Ok so everyone here is yelling to use lime in soil mixes, I have contemplated this for sometime now.

Why the hell would one add a product designed to drive the ph of my soil UP, I'm beginning to think some people are just tossing ideas out there.

My findings, my soil is already high in PH, my run off is always above 6.5, and my plants never have any coloring issues, nor lockout.

So fast forward to this week, like a dumb *** I let the board coercers me. I used lime in a few pots when transplanting and now I'm loosing the bottom leaves to extreme yellowing.

So my question is why the [email protected]$K are people using lime, is you soil so acidic that you're fixing it back up or what, because I'm failing to see the need for LIME ever.


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## Locked

> &#8226; Dolomite lime is high in magnesium. Dolomite has a neutral pH level of 7.0, which when mixed with the soil, creates the optimum pH levels for cannabis growth. Dolomite lime is available at local garden centers.



From this article>>>http://www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com/nutrient-deficiencies-and-soil-amendments/

I always use dolomite lime and never have issues.  It buffers ph real well in soil.


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## Batman

What is better to mix?


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## lyfespan

Hamster Lewis said:


> From this article>>>http://www.ilovegrowingmarijuana.com/nutrient-deficiencies-and-soil-amendments/
> 
> I always use dolomite lime and never have issues.  It buffers ph real well in soil.



Runn off from plants with lime is 8.9without is 7


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## Hackerman

From what I have read, lime does not raise OR lower pH. It neutralizes it. So, if it's above 7 it neutralizes it to 7. If it's below 7, it neutralizes to 7.

I don't believe it's anything even close to adding pH up or down. 

Again, from what I understand, the lime neutralizes the hydrogen in the soil to make, essentially, less of it and, therefore swinging pH (power of Hydrogen, after all) toward 7.

It's almost like it thins out the hydrogen so it has less effect on the overall volume of soil.


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## Locked

lyfespan said:


> Runn off from plants with lime is 8.9without is 7



Like hackerman said Lime can't raise or lower the PH above or below 7 on it's own.  It buffers at 7 ph.    Checking your run off and chasing a certain ph will usually create way more problems than it solves. I never check my run off.


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## Dman1234

All these ppl with runoff fascinations, put the propper ph in and your done, stop worrying about runoff.


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## pcduck

Feed the soil..... no worries.


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## Droopy Dog

Unless you really screwed up and used hydrated lime, look elsewhere for your yellow leaves.

Lime is ground up ROCK and usually takes a couple weeks before any effect. Besides that, I've grown plants in pure ground up limestone, so the rant carries zero weight with me.

Farmers have been using lime ever since they had the ability to crush limestone, hundreds if not thousands of years ago. Lime did not come along with the internet. 

Have you ever gardened or tried to grow anything besides mj? You should.

With very few exceptions, about everything used in growing is acidic and your high soil pH is a mystery, especially if you are using a mix. Just what are you using to check pH?

There is something else going on here and it is most assuredly not the lime.

DD


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## Hushpuppy

For organic grows, or even some of the synthetic grows in organic medium, dolomite lime is another valuable amendment to use. It serves several purposes and is a valuable amendment. But that doesn't automatically mean that ALL grows should be using it. I have recommended it many times but found that it doesn't work well in the soilless medium applications, at least not for me. 

With any advice, you should verify the information as much as possible before diving into it as some people just don't know what they are talking about. Some people know what they are talking about but don't fully understand your specific situation well enough to give you proper advice. Still others merely offer suggestions off of information that they have "heard" and don't really know iff that advice is good or not. And some of us simply make mistakes sometimes.

It is very challenging at best to diagnose another person's grow without actually being there. That is why we often ask so many informational questions before offering advice. But even with a lot of information from a grower, it is still very easy to misdiagnose problems for even the most experienced growers.  There are so many variables that one missed variable can be a deciding factor in properly diagnosing issues. It is very much like being a human doctor. That is why they call their positions a "practice" and not an exact science.

With any advice given on a fforum like this, the information is purely opinion. Some is very experienced and well educated opinions, but others are purely speculation. That is why it is your responsibility to "vet" that information before applying it.

I am curious as to why you decided to use lime if your plants were doing well before adding it.


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## Rosebud

Why are you so mad about lime.... it is lime. I don't add it in organic grows. I don't add it to my native soil either because we are very alkaline here.....If i lived where acid loving plants grow well, i would add it. 

I don't get the angst.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I add lime to all soil grows, including organic.  The lime simply helps stabilize the pH.


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## Locked

Some more info on Lime and the types available for use:


*Lime  Different kinds*

*Quicklime (calcium oxide)* is a white solid having a crystalline structure. Quicklime is highly reactive with water, generating considerable heat in the hydration process. It can be bought at masonry supply stores. CAUTION: *HIGHLY CAUSTIC*

*Hydrated lime (calcium hydroxide)* is a dry powder obtained by treating quicklime with sufficient water to satisfy its chemical affinity for water, thereby converting the oxides to hydroxides. It can be bought at garden centers. *CAUTION: CAUSTIC*

*Garden lime is calcium carbonate*. It is usually manufactured by grinding marble stone to a fine dust. The dust can be bagged as such or it can be pelletized to make it easier to go through a spreader.

*Dolomitic lime* is garden lime that contains a small percentage of magnesium carbonate. Most garden lime sold in Georgia is dolomitic lime.


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## lyfespan

I used the Espoma lime, if it's a buffering, and not raising above 7 that's fine, I get that concept. 

Dman, it's just for investigative purposes that I check the runoff in problem plants.

Also looks like my problems with my soil are a mixing issue, I'm buying a cement mixer to rectify this. I'm getting the issues only in certain pots, having nothing to do with strain or anything else so...with any luck. Because why else would I have issues with 3 plants going all yellow while 40 don't. 

Live and learn


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## bwanabud

lyfespan said:


> I used the Espoma lime, if it's a buffering, and not raising above 7 that's fine, I get that concept.
> 
> Dman, it's just for investigative purposes that I check the runoff in problem plants.
> 
> Also looks like my problems with my soil are a mixing issue, I'm buying a cement mixer to rectify this. I'm getting the issues only in certain pots, having nothing to do with strain or anything else so...with any luck. Because why else would I have issues with 3 plants going all yellow while 40 don't.
> 
> Live and learn



I ran into serious issues here, mixing lime and other additives to my media. All grows aren't the same, and taking general advice will KILL your grow. Water quality, style of grow, media or soil, types of nutes, H2O PH,,,are all integral parts of quality plants & health. 

I paid a huge price for not diagnosing my choices, and following general advice...as said without exact details, a lot of bad advice is stated. I see threads here on the board, that exactly pertain to the same issue...people assume what you have, and lend bad info because of it...they mean well.

Without a very length communications with Hushpuppy, I may have never figured out the issue. After many tests and changes, we have gotten back on path. I probably should start a thread discussing the problem, but chances are it would turn into a peeing battle....and I wouldn't want to offend anyone, but yet continue to see the same incorrect advice.


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## Rosebud

If you are seeing us give bad info I would like to know Bwana.


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## Dman1234

bwanabud said:


> I ran into serious issues here, mixing lime and other additives to my media. All grows aren't the same, and taking general advice will KILL your grow. Water quality, style of grow, media or soil, types of nutes, H2O PH,,,are all integral parts of quality plants & health.
> 
> I paid a huge price for not diagnosing my choices, and following general advice...as said without exact details, a lot of bad advice is stated. I see threads here on the board, that exactly pertain to the same issue...people assume what you have, and lend bad info because of it...they mean well.
> 
> Without a very length communications with Hushpuppy, I may have never figured out the issue. After many tests and changes, we have gotten back on path. I probably should start a thread discussing the problem, but chances are it would turn into a peeing battle....and I wouldn't want to offend anyone, but yet continue to see the same incorrect advice.



This sort of defeats the purpose of the site imo, if you have have info on a subject and it helped you solve an issue, why not share it so others can use it.


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## bwanabud

Rosebud said:


> If you are seeing us give bad info I would like to know Bwana.





Dman1234 said:


> This sort of defeats the purpose of the site imo, if you have have info on a subject and it helped you solve an issue, why not share it so others can use it.



Folks I'm not implying "bad" info, but certainly incorrect information...and maybe Hushpuppy or I should start a thread, this isn't really the best place for that...out of respect to the OP. But I mention it because Lime is one of the problems, it can help you...or cause serious problems.

Everyone here has always been generous with their well meaning help & advice, but in reality there are some very hard lines drawn in the sand as to what actually effectively works. There are many ways to grow MJ, and many ways that don't work because of bad info....this is why you see the EXACT same threads on the board, continuously rehashing the same problems & sicknesses. 

The experience learned growing 4 plants in your basement, is completely different than growing 200 budding plants at a time,,,,when cycling 10 strains the learning curve is much faster, and the problems much more evident...that's a fact.

I'll touch base with Hushpuppy and see if he wants to address it, I'll be pulling out of town for a few weeks soon(on Wednesday)...so maybe best to deal with it later...I don't know.


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## Rosebud

How long could it take? ha.  I know it takes a long time to get thoughts together but you would be doing us a big service, both ya'll.

I believe the OP, Lyfespan would be interested too.


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## Hushpuppy

I would not mind doing a thread on this subject, but the key to what Bwanabud is saying is that every individual grow is unique because of environmental and human variables. It is easy for any of us who are more seasoned growers to look at a particular problem that is put up on the board for advice, and we end up looking at the OP's problem through the perspective of our own grows. 

Not to say that it is wrong for us to do that but if you take 5 of the most experienced growers here and have them address a certain issue, or how they go about handling a grow, you will get 5 different answers and 5 different methods. No single method is wrong, but the problem is, (and I am guilty of making this mistake), the solutions need to be custom fitted to the individuals' own set of circumstances and unique variables. I have had many new growers ask for my individualized help because they couldn't figure out which person's advice to follow. 

I try to tell new or less experienced growers that my method is just one of many solid methods on here, and it is up to the individual to learn as much as they can about MJ growing so that they can sort out the 5 different answers to a single question, and apply the one that best serves their unique situation. This is no one's fault nor is it necessarily "bad advice". It is more the pitfalls of open opinions being read by someone who is lacking in the level of knowledge needed to discern which information (best) applies to the individual with the question.

This is why whenever a grower asks a question about a particular problem or concern, we ask for as much information as possible so that we can give you the most accurate diagnosis. But even then, there can be multiple diagnoses with multiple solutions that will accurately apply to a given unique situation. It is up to the OP to "vet" the information as much as possible to be certain that the solution chosen actually fits that individual's problem or situation.

For example; we have seen repeatedly the question of flushing come up and be debated quite passionately. To the inexperienced grower, these debates often leave them as confused as they were when they asked the question. That is because, there are people here who have their grows so dialed in that they can sleep walk their way through a maintenance session. These people see absolutely no need to ever flush. I see fflushing as a very valuable tool for keeping issues from occurring for new growers who are using synthetic nutes. It is not a tool that should be used by every grower for every situation. 

If I stop here, there will most certainly be many people who are growing organically (but not fully understand that they are fully organic) and they could easily think that fflushing is a good tool ffor them when it is absolutely the wrong tool for them as organic growers. We as experienced and knowledgeable advice givers have to be diligent to be sure we are giving advice that truly applies to the OP's specific situation and not just throw out generalized methods or solutions. But it is also the responsibility of the OP (new or inexperienced grower) to do the necessary homework so that you understand the advice that is given to you. 

As always, if you are confused about advice laid out in a thread, please don't be afraid to ask. If you have to, go to any off the experienced growers individually to get more specific advice as there is NO one solution that fits all problems. Even the most accurate advice may need to be tailored to ffit your unique situation. I hope this helps


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## Rosebud

Thanks Hush. you rock.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I have never seen or heard that adding lime to soil is/can be a problem.  Bwana, what kind of problem did you have using lime and how do you know it was the lime?  Gardeners and farmers have been using lime forever to help stabilize pH.


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## Dman1234

Hushpuppy said:


> I would not mind doing a thread on this subject, but the key to what Bwanabud is saying is that every individual grow is unique because of environmental and human variables. It is easy for any of us who are more seasoned growers to look at a particular problem that is put up on the board for advice, and we end up looking at the OP's problem through the perspective of our own grows.
> 
> Not to say that it is wrong for us to do that but if you take 5 of the most experienced growers here and have them address a certain issue, or how they go about handling a grow, you will get 5 different answers and 5 different methods. No single method is wrong, but the problem is, (and I am guilty of making this mistake), the solutions need to be custom fitted to the individuals' own set of circumstances and unique variables. I have had many new growers ask for my individualized help because they couldn't figure out which person's advice to follow.
> 
> I try to tell new or less experienced growers that my method is just one of many solid methods on here, and it is up to the individual to learn as much as they can about MJ growing so that they can sort out the 5 different answers to a single question, and apply the one that best serves their unique situation. This is no one's fault nor is it necessarily "bad advice". It is more the pitfalls of open opinions being read by someone who is lacking in the level of knowledge needed to discern which information (best) applies to the individual with the question.
> 
> This is why whenever a grower asks a question about a particular problem or concern, we ask for as much information as possible so that we can give you the most accurate diagnosis. But even then, there can be multiple diagnoses with multiple solutions that will accurately apply to a given unique situation. It is up to the OP to "vet" the information as much as possible to be certain that the solution chosen actually fits that individual's problem or situation.
> 
> For example; we have seen repeatedly the question of flushing come up and be debated quite passionately. To the inexperienced grower, these debates often leave them as confused as they were when they asked the question. That is because, there are people here who have their grows so dialed in that they can sleep walk their way through a maintenance session. These people see absolutely no need to ever flush. I see fflushing as a very valuable tool for keeping issues from occurring for new growers who are using synthetic nutes. It is not a tool that should be used by every grower for every situation.
> 
> If I stop here, there will most certainly be many people who are growing organically (but not fully understand that they are fully organic) and they could easily think that fflushing is a good tool ffor them when it is absolutely the wrong tool for them as organic growers. We as experienced and knowledgeable advice givers have to be diligent to be sure we are giving advice that truly applies to the OP's specific situation and not just throw out generalized methods or solutions. But it is also the responsibility of the OP (new or inexperienced grower) to do the necessary homework so that you understand the advice that is given to you.
> 
> As always, if you are confused about advice laid out in a thread, please don't be afraid to ask. If you have to, go to any off the experienced growers individually to get more specific advice as there is NO one solution that fits all problems. Even the most accurate advice may need to be tailored to ffit your unique situation. I hope this helps



Gotcha, but what was the issue and solution?


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## pcduck

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I have never seen or heard that adding lime to soil is/can be a problem.  Bwana, what kind of problem did you have using lime and how do you know it was the lime?  Gardeners and farmers have been using lime forever to help stabilize pH.




To much lime can cause lockout of many elements, especially K


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## Rosebud

THG, i had my soil tested outdoor soil...dirt and we can't use lime here as it is too alkaline to start with. This is not the case when growing indoors with a home made soil or even ffof.. I don't add lime to that as it is already done.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Well too much of anything is bad.  What if you use the right amount?  What is the downside?  

It is my understanding from everything I have read that lime does not make soil more alkaline.  If anything it makes it more acidic, but its major job is simply to buffer the soil.  Is this incorrect?


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## pcduck

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Well too much of anything is bad.  What if you use the right amount?  What is the downside?
> 
> It is my understanding from everything I have read that lime does not make soil more alkaline.  If anything it makes it more acidic, but its major job is simply to buffer the soil.  Is this incorrect?



What is the right amount? I have read members recommend from a tbs. to handfulls.


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## Locked

pcduck said:


> To much lime can cause lockout of many elements, especially K



:yeahthat:


That being said I will still use Dolomite lime every grow.  Just don't over do it.


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## Locked

pcduck said:


> What is the right amount? I have read members recommend from a tbs. to handfulls.



I mix my soil in a 5 gallon bucket and always add 2 handfuls of sweet lime per bucket.


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## Dman1234

Hamster Lewis said:


> I mix my soil in a 5 gallon bucket and always add 2 handfuls of sweet lime per bucket.



Same, a big fistful to 3 gallons, not saying thats perfect, just what i have always done.


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## Wetdog

pcduck said:


> To much lime can cause lockout of many elements, especially K



True. But that amount is also very close to turning your mix into cement. Like using 4-5x more than recc. Ground up rock is ground up rock.

I add a good bit of Ca, but from other sources, not increasing my lime. I keep that @1cup/cf and add gypsum for the extra Ca, also @1cup. The gypsum actually lightens soil or the mix.

Wet


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## pcduck

I use roughly a tsp/cf if that much..
Most of my cal comes from gypsum, oyster shell, and zebra mussel shells.
I reuse my soil. If were to use such a large amount my soil would be cement after a couple of grows.


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## Hushpuppy

The above statements are proof that each of these growers has done it long enough that they have dialed in their grows to their unique set of conditions, and are now staying with the methods and patterns that are giving the best results for them. It is proof that every grow is unique enough (when added to the individual personalities and personal preferences) that different things will work or not work for different people.

Bwanabud's problem was multi layered. It started with him having a high level of calcium in his water that he didn't realize was there. Also, he was combining organics and synthetics in a way that just wasn't compatible with each other. He tried to combine the advice off several people on here. While each set of advice and methods worked ideally for those individuals, Bwana's combining the different methods created their own problems due to incompatibility, which became compounded by several factors that I can't go into ffor his privacy. Suffice it to say that he is having to find the best methods that work the best ffor him, and the old adage of *keep it simple* is one that applies well in growing MJ.


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## lyfespan

View attachment image.jpg


Here's my one plant issue, if it wasn't a feminized nevilles chem, I wouldn't care, but she's one of only 6 that I have, would like to see her make it but. I'm not gonna waste space either


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## lyfespan

She is in vermifire/vermiworm 50/50, #4perlite, greensand, oyster shell,Mexican bat guano,and a lil great white,5 gallon smart pot.

Feeding with the GH line up, in the last week of veg, on their mix chart for drain to waste.

Temp 74-78, humidity 35-50%


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## bwanabud

lyfespan said:


> She is in vermifire/vermiworm 50/50, #4perlite, greensand, oyster shell,Mexican bat guano,and a lil great white,5 gallon smart pot.
> 
> Feeding with the GH line up, in the last week of veg, on their mix chart for drain to waste.
> 
> Temp 74-78, humidity 35-50%



What is your water PH ?


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## lyfespan

bwanabud said:


> What is your water PH ?



Water ph is always 6.4. Checked with a meter.


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## Hushpuppy

You say you are feeding with the GH line up? are you using GH Fflora 3part which is synthetic nutes? if so then that is a problem. Any time you make up soil with raw materials like greensand, guano, worm castings, those things are raw materials for organics. They need to have a healthy microbe herd to break those raw materials down into elements that can be absorbed by the plants. The microbes form a symbiotic relationship with the plants. But if you then introduce synthetic nutrients to the mix, very often you kill the microbes off before they can break down everything. Then the raw materials are no longer able to break down and just sit in the soil. 

All of these materials are dissolving chemicals into the soil that can directly conflict with the synthetic nutrients which are just pre-chelated chemicals. The conflict of chemicals can cause you to have radical pH drift or it can lock up certain nutrients where the plants are unable to take them in.

The issue on that plant looks to be severe magnesium deficiency. It would seem unlikely that such a problem could occur with just one plant iff they are all in the same medium and getting the same nutes, but chemistry and biochemistry is full of variables that are often hidden, and it is these variables that can cause this to occur.

You can verify the problem by making a mild solution of Epsom salt and lightly spray the plant (away from the others) every other day for 6 days. By day 10 you should see significant improvement. If so then it is mag deficiency. Iff it doesn't change then the problem is a different deficiency like potassium.

I recommend that you quit using the synthetic nutes (if that is what you are using) and get some nutrient teas to feed with along with more microbes in the soil and a little molasses tea to help the microbes get going again. You may actually have to do a light fflush to remove the GH stuff If a lot has been put in.


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## lyfespan

Guess the pic never made it up here she isView attachment image.jpg
 you can see the rest of the plants are just fine. The rest of the nevilles chems are cloche to 2' tall this ones barely a foot tall. 

Now it is easy to just yank the plant and toss it, but that offers no lesson, but loss. So I will try to fix the lil girl to use her as a learning tool.


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## Hushpuppy

If that is the same plant as the rest then I would say that there is definitely a lack of both calcium and magnesium. The reason is that calcium deficiency usually lends to a plant not growing very big, and magnesium deficiency typically shows with the light green to yellow margins on the leaf fronds.

Now if all of the plants are in the same medium and same food, water, light, temps, then I would be very inclined to think that you have a genetic anomaly (if these all came from seeds and not clones). If this is the case then you will not be able to do much to save it. The reason is that genetic anomalies that lead to these kinds of problems are usually not able to overcome because it is similar to cancer or MS that will eventually kill the plant.


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## Rosebud

Just as a side, that plant in Rosedom would be a virus. Roses that show that leaf anomaly is virus in the root stock.  Makes me wonder if it is in cannabis also.


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