# Cannabis two week old seedling trouble, please help!



## mortaion

Hi

Two weeks ago I've started germinating three cannabis seeds from SensiSeeds, my first growth ever. They all germinted quite nice and fast, once the roots were 1cm I've burried them in the soil 3mm deep. Several days later there were amazing results, extremely fast increase in height and the first real leaves were showing, soon followed by a second set of leaves. Whilst the second set of leaves were developping I could notice the first set of leaves (the first two) both losing greenness and becoming slightly yellow, I did my research and decided it was due Nitrogen deficiency although I wasn't sure. The soil was universal potting soil with an NPK rating of 14-16-18 specially made for seedlings. The next the day the leaves became more yellow, I decided it was time to fertilize , buy some liquid nitrogen fertlizer (7-3-5) which also had all the trace elements. I did like the instruction said, 20ml each 2500ml and I watered the plants. 
Now the next day, the yellowness is still increasing on all three plants.

What do you think? Should I just wait or should I do something else? (BTW: I am not 100% sure its Nitrogen Deficiency)

Extra technical information;
-3 Plants under 125w blue 6500K CFL with reflector..
-12 days since germination.
-A lot of ventilation (three mini computer fans).
-Temperature always between 75F-85F with an average of 80F.
-Seeds: Femenised Early Skunk Sensi Seeds.
-Humidity always between 35-70 with an average of 40.
-18h CFL lights, 6h full dark.
-Watering throughly till some drops out from bottom every 2,5day's. (I think I sometimes slightly overwater them, not much)
-Water I give them is controlled bottled water with a pH of 6.8
-Anythingelse you need to know? Pictures: hXXp://www.rollitup.org/indoor-growing/671952-cannabis-two-week-old-seedling.html#post9224837
P.S: Sorry for my english , I am from Sweden

Regards


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## pcduck

Welcome to the Passion:ciao:

Pictures need to be posted on our site here. Many here including me will not go off site to look at pics.

Just water with plain water. By the NPK rating of your soil you should have plenty of nutes for 30 days or so.


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## mortaion

I don't think that watering will help, the first set of leaves are dying and I can't post pictures in this forum if they aren't online availble (URL) which I don't have.

I found a similiar picture on the internet: It looked exactly like this two days ago :   https://www.google.be/search?q=yell...544-yellowing-leaves-seedlings.html;3647;2735

right now it's even more yellow and I think it's dying, Please help


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## Rosebud

Hi, and your English is just fine. 

Seedlings don't really need food at two weeks. All you can do now wait. 

It sounds like your watering fine, water till it runs out the bottom, then wait till dry to water again.


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## mortaion

Any idea what could be the cause of the yellowing?


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## Kb435

K I also am on my first session little later in the game and several books down I'm learning to leave my plants alone. First off never fertilize seedlings because over doing it is going to kill them. No matter what if u do use fertilizer on seedlings use like a tenth of what they say or you can burn the crap out of them and as they grow older u will c which plants like how much fertilizer and how often. Start small though and watch how each one individually reacts when they get into veg growth and eventually bloom.  Good luck I hope you the best also could just be a bad seed but you can alway clone when you figure out which plants carry the best genetics.


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## pcduck

mortaion said:
			
		

> Any idea what could be the cause of the yellowing?



Lock out from to many nutes and/or pH being off after adding the nutes.


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## mortaion

Thank you for your reaction but honestly, If I don't do something the first true leaves will defently die, the others will probably follow, followed by the whole plant, is there really no one that can help me?


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## skullcandy

have you tried adding iron cal/mag


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## mortaion

No, but that's in the fertilizer that I gave them yesterday, how long does it take before I can see signs of improved after adding fertilizer?


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## Hushpuppy

Hey I can't swear to it but it sounds like you have burned the roots of the seedlings by planting them in prenuted soil. I'm not sure how much you know about growing MJ but MJ seedlings do not like having nutrients available(unless it is light organic soil). When MJ first germs, it produces the two little round leaves called "cotyledons". These are the food supply for the seedling while its roots develop and toughen-up. Typically, for the first 2-3weeks, you shouldn't introduce ANY nutrients to the soil or seedlings as they are utilizing the nutrients in the cotyledons. If chemical nutrients are added before the roots are ready, the harshness of the chemicals will burn up the tender roots of the seedlings. Most of us here typically will start seedlings in soil or medium that is nutrient neutral and then not add any nutes until the cotyledons begin to die off(as they will do when the plant is done with them).

You said you put yours in prenuted soil that was made for seedlings but it has a very high number for the NPK value. What kind of soil is it? Do you intend to stay with chemical feeding or do you want to go with organic feeding?

I suspect that your soil and subsequent fertilizer addition is frying the roots of the seedlings. I would suggest that you "flush" them with straight water to remove most of the nutrients. Do that by slowly pouring 3x the amount of water as you have soil, through the soil and allow it to drain away.(if your pots are 1liter pots then you would use 3 liters of straight water poured slowly through the soil so that it washes away the nutes in the soil.)
I can't swear that they will survive at this point but they may. Once they are done draining the water that was flushed through them, let them set under their lights and dry out some before watering again. Do not feed them anything for at least 1 week and try to not overwater them. You want the soil to stay just moist, not wet or dry.

They will most likely continue to get worse for a few more days before they get better. I would wait about 10 days before adding any nutrients to them as there should still be a small amount of nutrients left in the soil for them. At 10 days, if they look like they are improving then you can get some nutrients that are formulated for MJ and feed them about 1/4 of what the nutrients call for. Feed them like this for 10 days, giving them nutes with every watering. If they respond well, then after 10 days you can double the amount of nutes mixed into your water, and continue for another 10 days. By this time they should be back to full vegetative growth and you can double the level of nutes again, which should bring you to full dosage feeding.

Good luck my friend  I hope they survive for you


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## mortaion

Wow thanks that's what I call some good authority information and instructions!
But when I was searching for soil in the gardenshop, I told them I was going to germinate seeds and I need some soil to germinate tomato seeds (Obviously I couldn't say it was MJ) so they recommended me the soil they gave me , with NPK 14-16-18. Leafs started to get yellow so I fertilized them but I will let the ground first dry out before flushing because otherwise the soil will be too wet for a too long time. Over two day's ill flush them, thanks for the advice, in the past 24h, both leaves yellowed even more but the new ones are looking perfectly healthy and it looks like the growth increased a little since fertilisation. 

Thanks!


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## pcduck

When HushPuppy mentioned flushing it was to remove the excess nutes. Watering a little bit over time is not going to flush out the excess nutes. Only large amounts of water applied all at once will do this. My plants would rather have a bunch of water at once, then allowed to dry. Then to have the soil constantly wet.

Once the leaves are damaged they will not repair themselves, a grower looks at the new growth to check for the health of the plant.


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## Rosebud

a grower looks at the new growth to check for the health of the plant.---pcduck..

That statement needs to be a sticky. So true.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I think that Hushpuppy has nailed it.  I cannot imagine a seed starting mixture having a NPK of 14-16-18.  That is far too hot to start any kind of seeds in, I don't care what they were.  When starting seedlings, you want soil with virtually no nutrients in it.  In fact, you should really never use prenuted soil with MJ--things like miracle grow just do not give cannabis what it needs and you have no control whatsoever over how many nutes it is fed.  

Plants need no nutes whatsoever for 2-3 weeks and then, you start nutes at a very low level and work up.  Unfortunately, I doubt that there is any saving them.  I think the initial yellowing was causwed by nute burn and adding nutrients just made the situation worse.  Start with soil with NO nutes, and use nutes formulated for mj like General Hydroponics, Fox Farm, etc, etc.

Flushing isn't a process that you do over 2 days.  Flushing is a big wash of water all at once to flush excess nutrients out.  Watering a lot over 2 days is just going to activate more of those time released nutrients.  If your soil mixture does not have good drainage properties, you are not going to be able to flush them.

You should be running your lights 24/7 and you will need more ventilation.  Three mini computer fans is not really very much air.  You need to exhaust old air out and bring new air in.  How many lumens does your light put out?  

Please no direct links.  I don't think anyone is going to go to RIU to look at pics.  Can you post them here?  They will need to be resized.


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## mortaion

Looks like there's a clear misundersanding.
I will wait two days BEFORE I am going to flush (3l all at once) because right now the soil is still wet/moist because I watered them two days ago and I don't want to overwater the or cause rootrot that's why i'll wait two days before I will flush them.

Secondly the new set of leaves ('three leaves in one' at once on both sides) are developping and are looking extremely green and healthy whilst the two old ones are decreasing, yellowing even more and even becoming slight brownish, they are lost. I hope those two leaves will "attract the attention of the plant and that the plant will first destroy and stock his excess nutes in them and they hold it out for two days" so the plant doesn't has to "choose a new victim, the newer set of leaves". I think they will survive it if both leaves last two days.

Thirdly , the signs of the plant also look extremely hard on a Potassium deficiency (even more then on a N deficiency) the affected leaves are curled upwards, yellowing from tips to knot.

When I did some research on pictures of nutrient burns , I don't think they look like the situation is right now so I still am not sure if it really are an excess nutrients that are causing the burn. Why did the plant wasn't effected for the first 7days? Why did the 7th day the plant looked extremely healthy and green and only from on the 9th day, just when it was producing a new set of leaves I could some yellowing? If it was a nutrient burn shouldn't it affected the plant a lot earlier?

Anyhow I think it's a good idea to flush them like you guy's mentioned. The computer fans are actually doing a great job, If I use a real fan it will bend the stems of the plant and cause too much air circulation. When they entered vegatative state over several weeks I will place the real fan.

By the way, the 125w CFL 6500K lamp with reflector is hanging 3" away and puts out 8500lumens, soon an additional 20w CFL lamp will be placed.

Tried to resize pictures etc.. but it's not possible to easily post pictures on marijuanapassions, did my best. (If you aren't a RIU member you could maybe check http://forum.grasscity.com/sick-plants-problems/1225455-two-week-old-seedling-sick-need-help.html but only if you want to, just trying to give you guys extra information)

Any more advice?


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## The Hemp Goddess

At 2 weeks with the soil you planted them in, they can't be deficient in anything.  It really doesn't matter if the soil is wet when you flush them.  The purpose of a flush is to try and wash all the excess nutrients out of the soil.  Actually since they are still small, I would repot them in better soil.  I cannot tell you exactly why they seem to have started out okay and then went south, except that it probably took the time release nutes that long to start to time release.  Regardless, that soil is too hot for baby seedlings, it does not have correct proportion of nutes for healthy vegetative growth, and you will probably continue to have problems because you cannot contrl the release of nutes or control how much of everything the plant is getting.

If you have new healthy growth, the plant will most likely survive, but that doesn't mean that it is healthy.  We are passing on info that we have learned from growing hundreds and hundreds of plants.  We have your best interests at heart.  Our only goal is to help you grow and harvest great bud.

Your light is good for a space a little less than 3 sq ft, which is like 18" x 24".  That light will do for a while, but really soon, you are going to need way more light.  You want a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft for vegging and a minimum of 5000 when flowering.  You might want to look into a HPS.  CFLs are the most expensive lights to use for growing, putting out the least lumens per watt.  And when you get as many as you need, they generally run hotter than a HPS.

You need to different kinds of fans in your space.  You want a fan to move the air around inside your space--you do want the stems to move some as this strengthens them.  You also need a decent exhaust fan.  Plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on.

Please, no direct links--they can lead anywhere and most peeps are not comfortable with that.


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## mortaion

I got pictures! Please help me further, I really appreciate all help 

Please everyone who is reading this give your opinion! :icon_smile: Let's try to save some greatful plants 

Note: Only one fan is on the photo's, I've tooken the other ones away, but there are three medium sized computer fans producing lot of air circulation, a new fan will be installed next week. Max temperature ever recorded was 86F


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## The Hemp Goddess

It really looks like nute burn.  The tips of the new growth looks like it is a little crispy, too.  How does it look to you since you are right there and can get a good look?

The soil looks very dense without good drainage properties.  I am thinking that even without the nutes, that this is not a good soil for growing cannabis.  If this were my grow, I would be for getting new soil--something with some perlite in it and no nutes.  I get a product from Home Depot that I like to use to start seeds and use as the base soil in my super soil.  I would transplant them in new soil and bury them up to the first set of real leaves.

Do you have a fan exhausting air out?


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## Dr. Green Fang

> The soil looks very dense without good drainage properties.



Actually yeah, I thought "man that looks kinda muddy" eh? I'm new to this, but it looked muddy hence the need for some drainage. I use Sunshine Advanced Mix #4 and love it! I have to water everyday though, so be prepared for a lot of drainage and aeration....which is great for your root system though!  

Also, I thought nute burn as well, from looking at the damage. 

(*disclaimer* I am new to this, but I think what I do actually now know is sound info :confused2: )  

Who knows.. lol .. Green mojo to yo! :aok:


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## mortaion

Thanks alot The Hemp Godness and EllisD for your opinions! Really appreciated

I am still not entirly sure about the wheter its a burn or a deficiency or somethingelise but I think you are right it could be a burn.

Is there anyone experienced in this that can also confirm this or give their opinion, just to have a second one.

Really thanks for the recommendations, well I'll buy some different soil without any fertilizer, ill flush them and transplate them to soil which has no nutes (ill do my best finding one) and I will also add perlite.

1) How much perlite should I add?
2) Any other, recommendations? 
3) Do you think that the plant will make? How big do you estimate the chances?
4) Will this have later an affect on the plant (yield,health) 
5) If I flush and trasnplantate tomorrow, when will I see improvement? Will it still worsen for several days or will it directly stop and start curing? 
6) On which key ingredients should I be looking for the soil?

Again many thanks and sorry for the questions but google is very controversial some say totally the opposite of others, but believe me I've done hours of research but it's extremely hard to see the difference in real life between a deficiency or burn for me.

Thanks!!!


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## The Hemp Goddess

I use a product called Kellogg's Patio Plus that I get at Home Depot.  It is a good base soil, is inexpensive, already has perlite in it, and is organic.  Check out the organic section for some good soil mixtures.

The nute burn diagnosis is not based on appearance alone, although the appearance is consistent with nute burn.  Part of the diagnosis of nute burn is based on how hot your soil is and that you fed on top of that.  The chances of it being a deficiency in a plant that young when it is in soil with that many nutrients in it is incredibly slim, virtually nil, IMO.  Seedlings simply do not want or need any food until they are 2-3 weeks old.  And even then, you start out with 1/8 or 1/4 strength nutes.  Just to give you a comparision, the vegging nutes I use are 7-4-10

New growth on the plant is a good sign and they should most likely recover if you can get them in better soil.  Any time you stress plants you affect the overall health of the plant and it will take some time to recover, but they should recover.  The improvement will not be immediate, but they should not get any worse.  Try and take enough of the old dirt so that you do as little root damage as possible.  But you also do not want any more of that soil than you absolutely need.  Your tomatoes may just love it.  

Keep in mind that while people may say that cannabis and tomatoes have the same needs, they do not.  Cannabis has its own special needs and there are fertilizers formulated for the needs of mj.


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## Dr. Green Fang

Take a look at your Cotyledons. They look green and healthy, yeah? They have all the nutes in them that your plants needs. Until they start yellowing, you really shouldn't even have to consider nutrients. Also, with no airation the roots can't breath or drain properly. 

So it looks like nute burn from hot soil with new seedlings and you could use different growing medium. I'd highly consider what I recommended and wish you lots of luck :aok:


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## Dr. Green Fang

> *Sunshine Advanced Mix #4*
> 
> Description:
> 
> Beginning with select ingredients and formulated by a team of professional horticulturists, Sunshine® Advanced #4 Growing Mix is recommended for indoor growing. OMRI listed for organic gardening, this myco-active mix it retains moisture while providing improved root aeration and drainage to develop strong, healthy root systems for maximum stem, flower and foliar growth.
> 
> 
> Ingregients:
> 
> Peat Moss, Coir, Perlite, a Multi-species Blend of Endomycorrhizae
> 
> Applications:
> 
> Designed specifically for growing indoor foliage crops, vegetables, herbs and other consumable crops.



1) How much perlite should I add?
*A) I didn't add any, my soil had it.*
2) Any other, recommendations? 
*A) Make sure your fan is giving enough air movement around the space and that heat isn't an issue. Not really fully a recommendation to your diagnosis, just a general thought I've had.*
3) Do you think that the plant will make? How big do you estimate the chances?
*A) Yeah, I do think they will with new soil and proper lovin'.. but I'd say you have a 75/25 chance, 75% being good. Don't over water and don't let it get dry (watch it good with your new soil, it will drain way better than this stuff!)*
4) Will this have later an affect on the plant (yield,health) 
*A) If you catch it soon enough it shouldn't, but if it does, it shouldn't be detrimental at this point.. it hasn't had a chance to take off. Are the seeds "autos" or "photos"? That's a determining factor to if you've stunted the yield as well*
5) If I flush and trasnplantate tomorrow, when will I see improvement? Will it still worsen for several days or will it directly stop and start curing? 
*A) No matter what, expect those leaves to dry up and fall off.. LET them though. The plant will let you know when the leaf is weak and will either fall off on it's own or you'll "graze" it off. I think you would see improvement within a solid weeks time, gradually over days. It may look worse after it looks better though, if you're putting into new soil, so be prepared for that mentally lol. *
6) On which key ingredients should I be looking for the soil?
*A) Perlite, Coco Coir, Pete Moss *


Remember I'm new, but other members will gladly step in and mention if I've said something wrong or at least elaborate. Be strong, and don't worry too much.. you can always plop some more seeds at this stage.. at least you're not at week 4-6 with detrimental issues :aok:


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## Hushpuppy

I was going to come back and explain this for you but my "Grow Friends" have explained it better than I could have, and they also saw the need of using different soil as that soil (which would be great for tomatoes) is too hot and too dense for MJ. I think some good organic soil would be ideal for you as it usually has a good mixture of nutrients and aeration that the seedlings need. 

The sooner you can get them moved out of that soil and out of the high level of nutrients in that soil the better your chances of them surviving.


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## mortaion

Wow you all three have just made my day (and saved three cannabis plants), really. 
Unbelieveable how gentle and nice you guys are, very patient, very mature and giving very good information.

Really so satisfied I made a topic on this forum, best forum ever!
Over a week I'll be back with new pictures and information to give you guy's some feedback, let you all know if it worked out or didn't.

Thanks!


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## The Hemp Goddess

Oh, don't make us wait a week.  Let us know how it is going.

Thanks for the kind words.  There is something that is just so special about growing your own.  We are quite happy when we can help someone else learn to grow their own and be independent.


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## Dr. Green Fang

Yeah, this place recently helped me out (few months ago) and I only find it proper to pay it forward in some other threads.. cheers for listening and starting the topic. :aok:


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## trillions of atoms

You have a strong soil and no drainage due to composition of soil......

 transplant and add perlite , worm castings and dolomite lime...and water well after the plants dry good.

problem solved.


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## mortaion

As soil there is just no nonfertilized soil in my garden center, unbelievable.
Ill think I'll just buy some bricks of coco peat add perlite and 10% of my current soil which will be flushed first, should this be allright?


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## Dr. Green Fang

> there is just no nonfertilized soil in my garden center, unbelievable.



Do a search for Hydro stores in your area. I have to drive 1 hour and 20 minutes one way, just to get to my store.. but it is SO worth it!! :aok:


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## mortaion

Went to another gardenshop and also there, they didn't had soil that didn't contain no fertilizers so they recommended me the one with the least ferts, 7-6-6 NPK , organic enriched with Mg and Ca it sais. Based on coco peat.

It looked quite decent, I also bought a bag of perlite (1kg, 10l) I will search google for a good ratio to mix, flush my plants right now and then transplant them into their new soil.

What you guys think?


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## The Hemp Goddess

You don't have a Home Depot or Lowes or hydro or grow store?  There are many companies that make unnuted soil.  IMO, 7-6-6 is still pretty hot.  My vegging nutes are 7-4-10.  and they don't get fed full strength until they are about 4 weeks old.   In addition, YOU want to be the one to contgrol the nutes, not the soil.  7-6-6 may be fine for tomatoes, but it isn't what cannabis wants. 

Look up some good soil mixtures on line.  Mandala cautions against using too much perlite in your soil mixtures.  In addition it is a non renewable resourse, so I try and not use too much.


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## Grower13

I've read you can mix 100% organic peat.... perlite..... vermiculite.....  together.   3parts peat, 2 parts perlite, 1part vermiculite....... I was gonna use this until I found promix in my area....... still had to add more perlite and  vermiculite to my pro mix to put more air in the soil. MJ likes to get wet and dry out often to grow its best in my experiences with it.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I think that peat is too acidic to use in that strength.  And perlite and vermiculite do about the same thing, which is help aerate the soil.  I'm thinking that the soil mixture is going to need to contain more.

If the place he lives has a couple of garden stores, I would think he can find some kind of soil that is not nuted somewhere.


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## mortaion

What I've done right now:
Flooshed the three plants while being in their original (bad soil) container with 3.5times the volume.
Next I've made a circle of about 3.5" in diameter around the plant, digged it out and repotted them in the new soil* a 2liter pot (3/5gallon +-).
*The new soil, which sourrounds the plant, under , above and on the sides is made from a commercial coco peat soil that I have combined with perlite. I've used approx 30% perlite and 70% peat , I guess..
After that I flooshed (2x) the new container yet again to get rid of some the NPK rating 7-6-6 which is in the coco peat soil. Since the perlite is pure and doesn't contain any fertilizer I think I will be fine, I really couldn't find anything lower then NPK 7-6-6. 
When the mixture was moist I could see a big difference with that soil being moist and the soil beforehand I had being moist. This soil drains aloootttt better, feels better, feels airy, I think it's okay?

Pictures will follow. Any other comments or advice? Would love to hear/learn.

(P.S: You all were right, it was a nute burn not a defficiency I've did some research and compared photo's)


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## mortaion

Here are some very detailed pictures, I think.
How is it looking? Do you think it will make it? Wat should I expect the coming days?


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## trillions of atoms

the new growth looks good, dont worry about the older leaves.

let the soil dry out really good before watering again. sprinkle a lil dolomite lime on top if you didnt add it to the soil.

you will see them come back around. NO NUTES!


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## mortaion

Great, so happy 
In the coming days, will the leaves still continue to somewhat get more yellower or brownish or will that stop immediately?

And will the NPK 7-6-6 harm? although it's partly flushed away (I hope, not sure)


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## Grower13

Please let me know how the soil does for you....... hard to get the right stuff in my part of the world too......... I think your plants are gonna be fine now........ good luck

:48:


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## mortaion

Sure I will, tomorrow I'll take new pictures to see if the yellowing stopped , etc.. Ill take a picture of the soilbag and content if you want?


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## The Hemp Goddess

mortaion said:
			
		

> Great, so happy
> In the coming days, will the leaves still continue to somewhat get more yellower or brownish or will that stop immediately?
> 
> And will the NPK 7-6-6 harm? although it's partly flushed away (I hope, not sure)



I am worried about the soil being too hot--7-6-6 is still pretty hot for seedlings and it is not the right proportion of nutes for cannabis.  The soil I use is 0.3-0.1-0.1 just to give you an idea.  That translates to 23 times more N and 60 times more P and K in your soil than mine.  When soils come pre-nuted like this, they generally have time release nutes that you cannot flush out.  The leaves that are damaged will not recover and they will probably continue to deteriorate some.  Watch the new growth--that will tell you how things are going.  New healthy growth will tell you things are on the right track.

Try and find a source for soil that has no nutrients in it.  A town large enough to have at least 2 garden centers should be large enough to find soil without nutes.  A lot of organic soils are not nuted and I can't believe that there is no organic soil at the garden stores or seed starting mix (which I have never seen pre-nuted).


Green mojo for your little ones.


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## mortaion

Wish you could give some soil  !
But anyhow, I really do hope they will do fine, its a big improvement from 14-16-18 to 7-6-6 but it also contains perlite which in mass when combined with the peat reduces the NPK. 

I really can't do any better, been at three different gardenshop, it's just unbelievable. I asked one guy if they had soil without nutes, they told me yes over there are coco peat bricks of 5kg, take them! 
When I went over there I read the label and it said "100% pure coco peat (+ added nutes NPK 14-16-18) I was like "really?"
Then I asked don't you have a soil that has no nutes? He told me , no all plants need nutes, here this soil with NPK 7-6-6 can never harm a plant unless its a carnivorous but even not carnivorous. So I thought I will take the 7-6-6 and add some perlite..

I'll watch the new growth closely and let you guy's know. Meanwhile, the plants already have their first set of three leaves and theyre developping fast.


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## Grower13

It's a MG world. 

"Then I asked don't you have a soil that has no nutes? He told me , no all plants need nutes, here this soil with NPK 7-6-6 can never harm a plant unless its a carnivorous but even not carnivorous."


About the way it is around here........... I finally found half way what I needed at a big feed store.


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## Dr. Green Fang

hxxp://www.amazon.com/Sunshine-Advanced-Mix-4-1-0/dp/B008PGF9PC


Deliver it directly to your door.... it's just soil. :confused2:   

If it is truly that hard to get non-nuted soil, then make the purchase online. No need to worry when buying soil  


Good luck on the mix, it will probably work but may fight a bit in the early stages. It's good that you flushed it the best you could... I'd imagine. Again.. I'm a n00b hah :aok:


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## The Hemp Goddess

I'm with EllisD.  I would order online to my door or drive to the next town to get soil good enough for my plants.  The garden guy doesn't know what he is talking about.  Seeds planted in a soil that hot are going to have problems.  In addition, not all plants like a 7-6-6 ratio.  This is far too much N for flowering Cannabis and not enough P.

Grower, even MG makes a seed starting soil with no nutrients in it.  I think they also make an organic soil that has no added nutes in it.

Do you have a home improvement store like Home Depot or Lowes anywhere close?  I drive 60 miles to get my soil, which I use outdoors for veggies, too.  Good soil is critical to a good grow.  You may have to drive a ways or bite the bullet and have it shipped to your home.  Soil is that important.  And remember that you are trying to grow a product here that is quite expensive "retail".  It is worth it to go the extra mile to provide the right soil mixture.


----------



## Dr. Green Fang

> I'm with EllisD. I would order online to my door or drive to the next town to get soil good enough for my plants.



Exactly.. I mean consider this. Yes, you feed and water your plants, and tend the canopy.. but the soil is the home of your roots. That's the heart and soul of your entire plant! You'd want a nice comfortable place where you could take your shoes off and stretch out right? Not be all crammed with horrible air you can't breath and the smells.. BLEH! You wouldn't like it, and neither does your plant. 

It's like a good pair of shoes, yeah? 

Do we need some more analogies? hahah  :aok: 


I think what you have should work, but isn't the optimal way to go about it. Also, you stand less of a chance of saving them. But hey, you've already done it.. may as well see where it goes now. I think it looks better visually, certainly. So hopefully they withstand the initial onslaught of nutes. If not, just do as suggested and get the right home for your girl :aok: 


Cheers and greenest of mojo to ya! I sure hope they survive so you don't have to worry so much, BUT.. if they do survive, don't think; "Oh well gee, I can just keep doing this.." .. sure you could, but don't you want the best chances you can get with everything?


----------



## mortaion

*26h update with pictures before and after* On photo's I said 36h but It's actually 26h , sorry!

As you can see there isn't much difference. I think that no green parts became yellow but only the yellow parts became more brown, I could be wrong I've made some pictures and edited some to show you. On the last two photo's the second leaf looks more brown overall then the other but please not that this is due it's a more detailed picture (you can see the plant hairs) and there's a different background and light intensity. What you guys think?


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

I think that the new growth is looking healthy.  The damaged leaves will not heal them selves and you will eventually lose them.  They will fall off when they have taken everything useful out of the leaf.  The look of the soil is a lot better.  However,  find a source for soil that is not prenuted, even if you have to drive a ways or order online.  Even if the plants can handle the strength of the soil, a 7-6-6 is not a good N-P-K ratio for any phase of growing cannabis.

Generally somewhere on prenuted soil it says how long it feeds for.  Is there anything like that on the bags of soil you got?


----------



## Kb435

First off dude flush your plants or transplant to a non crazy high nute soil. they also sell 4ft fluorescent lights and active tubes for under 20$ at walmart which will do you justice in veg while you save to get a real light in your grow like HID or LED they run cooler just a lot more $ than HID.

Oh and yes nute burn. Listen to the people one of the ten people saying it.


----------



## mortaion

@The Hemp Goddess:

By the way: I am preparing those plants for outside. At 6-7weeks, when flowering starts I'll move them outside.
And about the soil; Nowhere within 2hours driving I can find a gardenshop that sell soil with no nutes, I live quite remote. 
It's already a lot of work to transplantate them and flush, took me 3hours total. Not that I'm lazy but I just don't got somewhere a day free to be away for 5hours (2 driving + 2 driving + 1 looking). 
I hope the soil will do fine for the plants this time while I am aware I don't have the perfect conditions. I'm new and I don't aim for commercial amounts , just a little bit for research would be enough.
I think it said it feeds for 8 weeks, But I will check it right now and correct if wrong
I am happing the situation is looking better, how big do you estimate the chances that it will survive? 50% ? 70 % ? 90 % ? 99%?

@Kb435 Please keep you out of the disscusion, I have already flushed them and transplantated them like mentioned in this forum thread. 4ft FL tubes are not the ideal over here, they are too expensive for the wattage they put out. I use compressed fluorescent lights, (CFL) at this point I got one 125w that puts out close to 10000 lumen (a little bit less). At week 4-5 I'll buy three additional 20w CFL for each plant. At week 7 they will be moved outside. The light is not an issue and is more then enough for cannabis plants and also for yield I am aiming for. I've heard people using just a single 26w for each plant.. So the light is fine


----------



## Dr. Green Fang

I'd give it a good 60-70% ... If I had to guess. 

Either way, time will tell. And you can always pop more beans and keep on experimenting at least


----------



## mortaion

Thanks, what do others think about it's chance? 
And I am not planning to grow cannabis often, just once in a few years to do experiments (I am a student, medicine).


----------



## Hushpuppy

I think at this point you have saved them from death  I think they have better than 60% chance to live. They may struggle a bit until they get stronger but you are going in the right direction now. Marijuana is a very finicky plant to grow(it is only happiest when all the conditions are just right) but it is also very hearty and determined to survive.

TOA told you to get some *dolomite lime *to add to your soil, that is very important for you at this point because coco coir is more on the acidic side of mediums and it will cause the soil PH to fall too low for the plants to be happy. Read your soil bag to see if it says anything about the soil PH. If it says that it is above 6.0 with the added nutrients, you may be ok, but if it says less than 6.0 then you will need to have some of that lime to "buffer" the soil. Even though you flushed the new soil, the chemicals used in adding the nutrients to it will still be there some, so I would doubt that the flushing will have changed the PH much. 

PH is very important to the health of your soil, so what kind of water you use to water them will also have an affect on the PH and soil conditions. You should check your water as soon as you get a chance to see what kinds of chemicals are in it. I know that in many places in Europe the water is high with calcium and some other minerals. This will be important to know so that you can take precautions to keep anymore problems from occuring


----------



## mortaion

The pH is claimed to be 5.0-6.5 of the coco peat soil itself.
But because I added 30% of 7.5pH perlite I think I should be fine? Or does this not compensate? 
Our tapwater is pH 6.5-7.1 and normally has a high content in calcium but because we have a "calcium remover machine" (don't know how it's called in english) there's almost no calcium in our water. It's possible that it contains other minerals or anorganic substances, I have no idea but the taste is quite normal and its pleasent to drink. 
After flushing the soil three times I checked the water that dripped out from the bottom and it was 6.7
Am I fine or should I still add the lime?

About the photo's in attachment: The first photo look a bit yellow but the new growth is actually very green, it looks somewhat yellow due to light conditions, but its 100% green. Rest isn't

(P.S: Switched lights from 18/6 to 24/0 , I am not capable of respecting exactly  18/6 hours cycle, can't do anything wrong with 24/0, just the electricty bill) Also bought 3x new 20W cfl lights for each plant which will be tomorrow installed hanging 1-1.5" above the plants.


----------



## Hushpuppy

It sounds like your water is good and the PH is just a bit high (for my comfort) at this point, but I wouldn't try to do any adjusting right now. From everything you say here, I think you are good to let them continue without anymore changes for now. But keep in mind that this is a dynamic process. It will constantly change over time. We have to continually monitor the different aspects of the grow to make sure it stays in the happy range. Your temperature and humidity is exactly right. If your water is around 20c then that will be good for the plants, as they don't like water above 24c or below 17c. 

As I said before, the system is dynamic and as the plants grow, they will take up the nutrients within the soil, and this will change the chemistry of the soil. You should monitor the run-off once a week and note the changes in PH as that will tell you a little about what is happening and if you need to add a little lime to the soil. I am certain that you will not be able to grow these plant to harvest with just the nutrients that are in the soil now. This soil will probably carry them for 3weeks of good growth before they need more nutrients added. I would suggest that you look at some of the online hydro/grow stores for nutrients that are formulated specifically for marijuana. I think Advanced Nutrients and Hesi are very available for you there and are both solid product lines. I would look at getting a 3 part nutrient brand as that will cover most if not all of your nutrient needs.

Something to know about MJ is that it is a very "high energy" plant like most fruiting plants. The chemicals that it produces are complex and require a lot of light energy. When they are small and in the vegetative phase of growth, they don't need as much but as they get bigger, they will need more and more light as they are steadily producing and storing the chemicals needed for the flowering phase. A good rule for making sure your plants are getting the levels of light that they need to produce good buds is: at a very minimum 3000 lumens of output per square foot of growing space during the veg phase. And at a very minimum, 5000 lumens per square foot for the flowering phase. I can't remember how many square feet are in a square meter at the moment and I don't have my chart. It is easy to maintain the level of lumens when they are small because the growing area can be kept smallbut as they get bigger, they will take up more area so the lighting needs grows quickly. I am not going to make suggestions to you at this moment, this is just for you to have this information.


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## mortaion

Thanks a lot!
The light should be fine, a1bout 9000 lumens on 1.8square ft. 
When the three additional lights are placed it will be 12500 lumen for 1.8square ft for the moment.
I am prepared to buy additional lights if needed and additional fertilizers online specialised for marijuana but we will talk about that later. Ill post atleast every 3-4day's an update and let you guy's know.

I think I should water them tomorrow because last time watering was Wednesday if I remember, but the soil is still moist.
Should I flush again when watering this time or not anymore?


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

If you are looking at doing this for a while, I would encourage you to check out T5 fluoro tube lights.  They have a lot better lumen to watt ratio than CFLs and spread the light better. 

I doubt that you are going to be able to keep those plants in 1.8 sq ft for 6-7 weeks--you are talking a space say 12" x 21".  The CFLs do not have much penetrating power.  They will be fighting for space and more light.

Your soil is important enough so that you should make the trip to get it.  Garden stores are not the only places that carry soil is it?  Here home improvement stores carry more than most garden shops.  And virtually any place that sells plants sells soil.


----------



## mortaion

It isn't a real room, actually.
The 1.8sq ft can change to x sq ft when needed. 
I know a lot of people that use a lot less lumens and light then me so I think the light won't be an issue.

12500 lumen for 3 plants is more then enough if theyre online staying till week 7 which is only five weeks to go :icon_smile:


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## Kb435

Perlite bro lots for ur soil. They still alive


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## The Hemp Goddess

mortaion said:
			
		

> It isn't a real room, actually.
> The 1.8sq ft can change to x sq ft when needed.
> I know a lot of people that use a lot less lumens and light then me so I think the light won't be an issue.
> 
> 12500 lumen for 3 plants is more then enough if theyre online staying till week 7 which is only five weeks to go :icon_smile:


*
Light is always an issue.*  The amount of light is directly related to yield.  My point though is that I doubt that you are not going to be able to keep 3 plants in 1.8 sq ft for 7 weeks without overcrowding them and causing them stress due to the overcrowded condition.


----------



## mortaion

mortaion said:
			
		

> It isn't a real room, actually.
> The 1.8sq ft can change to x sq ft when needed.


----------



## mortaion

Think I will be buying a 400watt MH lamp.
hXXp://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/130895144786

What do you guy's think? Although 22000 lumen is low for a 400watt MH lamp, it's self balasted and cheap + more then enough for my three plants if I combine with current CFL 125w.


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## The Hemp Goddess

"THIS LAMP REQUIRES NO CONTROL GEAR TO OPERATE AS THE BALLAST, IGNITOR AND CAPACITOR ARE BUILT IN TO THE LAMP. TO USE SIMPLY SCREW IN TO AN E40 LAMP HOLDER, CONNECT TO AN AC 220-240V SUPPLY AND THE LAMP WILL GIVE OFF 400W OF HIGH POWER METAL HALIDE H.I.D LIGHTING."

I have never even heard of a self-ballasted light.  I have a hard time believing that the components contained within the ballast can somehow be shrunk to fit inside the bulb itself.  In addition the price is very low for a bulb that does not require a ballast.  I would try and find someone who has used a bulb like this before I purchased one.  I am thinking that the heat that will come off that is going to be horrible.


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## Hushpuppy

You know, I'm not sure but that almost looks like a scam to me. I assume that the ballast components are in the metal cup at the base of the bulb. For it to be that small, it would have to be micro components. To my knowledge there is no way that those components that are small enough to sit in htat metal cup are going to be able to handle the current that goes through there, and the level of heat generated by that bulb would be enough to kill those micro-components in a very short period of time. It may work but will not put out anywhere near the level of light that it says.

Mortaion, you need to get a light like this: hxxp://www.hpsgrowlightstore.com/hps1510/best-grow-light-systems/400-watt-grow-light-sets/ipower-grow-light-400w-hps-mh-dimmable-basic-wing-reflector-set.html

With this light you will have a reflector that will throw all of the light energy down to the plants, and you will already have the socket, wiring, ballast, and 2 bulbs. One bulb MH that will work in the fixture during vegging, and then a HPS bulb that will cover the plants during the flowering period with a different spectrum of light that is specifically for flowering. Both bulbs will work in the same fixture with the same ballast.  You should be able to find a comperable unit like this on Ebay.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Look how big the base on even small wattage CFLs are.  I am really not understanding how this light could work.


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## mortaion

I've did some "research" and it looks like it isn't a scam:

"Self-ballasted lamps[edit]
As of 2012 several companies started to offer self-ballasted metal-halide lamps as a direct replacement for incandescent and self-ballasted mercury-vapor lamps. These lamps include an arc tube with a starting electrode as well as a tubular halogen lamp which is connected in series and used to regulate the current in the arc tube. A resistor provides the current limiting for the starting electrode. Like self-ballasted mercury-vapor lamps, self-ballasted metal-halide lamps are connected directly to mains power and do not require an external ballast. In contrast to the former, these lamps usually have a clear outer bulb without a coating, making the arc tube and the halogen lamp tube clearly visible from the outside."
*Source: Wikipedia* (although it's not always trustable)




But even a big brand like Philips offers 6x25watt self balasted metal halide lamps for only 50 dollar (37pounds+-):

http://1000bulbs.com/category/25-watt-self-ballasted-par38-metal-halide-lamps/


The cons are that the lifespan and lumens are about half lower than those with ballasts, an average 400w unbraned metal halide lasts only 6000hours and puts out 23000 lumen. We all know that for a 400w MH , 22000 lumen and a 6000hours life span is very bad but for it's price it's perfect, I think.
I am not a serious grower and I would throw the bulb away or put it in the garage somewhere after my growth. 22000 lumens would be a big improvement in comparance with the current 9000. And I will be able to use both, I also don't need a HPS light because I won't be flowering indoors. 

I already have a reflector, conenctor, E40 socket for my CFL setup so I just have to unscrew and screw the MH back in, done! The CFL will be placed with an E40 hanger inbetween the three plants.
Do you guys still have the same opinion or did I changed it a little?


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## Hushpuppy

I forgot that you will be flowering outside. As I am understanding you, this will be just a 1 time grow for studying the chemistry of the medicinal properties of MJ? Then I understand that you don't want to spend much money on the better components for this grow. 

One thing I did notice in the description of your light, you said that it has a Halogen bulb inside the glass outer tube. That would make sense for it being able to handle the heat as the Halogen element tubes don't get quite as hot. The problem however with Halogen is that the light spectrum is around the 4000-5000Kelvin range which is not the best for vegetative growth. You want 6000-7000Kelvin(or 400-450nanometers) light spectrum for best vegetative growth. You need to verify the light spectrum on these bulbs before buying one or you will just have a nice garage light rather than a proper grow light. If it doesn't have the right spectrum then you are better off with high quality cfl.


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## pcduck

Just get a t-5 if using just to veg.


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## Hushpuppy

Here is the light that you need *IF *the spectrum is not right on the bulbs that you are looking at: hxxp://www.discount-hydro.com/hydrofarm-compact-fluorescent-bulbs/
This company has a location in the UK. I believe it is called "basement lighting.com". 1 or 2 of these would serve you well if you can get them.


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## The Hemp Goddess

There is a huge difference between 25W bulbs and 400W bulbs.  And look at how large the 25W are compared to the 400W that you are looking at, which just looks like a normal bulb.  However, even if they are what they are supposed to be (although I have a hard time believing a self ballasted 400W bulb can be that inexpensive),  I am worried about you being able to control the heat, which is going to have to be horrible.

I would a lot rather see you get some T5 fluoros if you can.

*Hush,* you are talking about halogens--is he talking halide or halogen--there is a huge difference there, too.  Halogens are no good for growing.


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## Grower13

What if his research is us and not the plant?:confused2: :bolt:


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## pcduck

Grower13 said:
			
		

> What if his research is us and not the plant?:confused2: :bolt:



If that is what his research is about then his conclusion would be..._Wow the government has been spreading propaganda and lies about Mj _:icon_smile:


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## mortaion

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> I forgot that you will be flowering outside. As I am understanding you, this will be just a 1 time grow for studying the chemistry of the medicinal properties of MJ? Then I understand that you don't want to spend much money on the better components for this grow.
> 
> One thing I did notice in the description of your light, you said that it has a Halogen bulb inside the glass outer tube. That would make sense for it being able to handle the heat as the Halogen element tubes don't get quite as hot. The problem however with Halogen is that the light spectrum is around the 4000-5000Kelvin range which is not the best for vegetative growth. You want 6000-7000Kelvin(or 400-450nanometers) light spectrum for best vegetative growth. You need to verify the light spectrum on these bulbs before buying one or you will just have a nice garage light rather than a proper grow light. If it doesn't have the right spectrum then you are better off with high quality cfl.



Emailed him, the light spectrum is 5000K 
Which probably has a peak in the early 400nm's?
I think it isn't that bad, maybe I'll buy two and use a splitter. About the heat, do you guy's think it will be that bad? I am able to buy two new 6-7inch fans. I do know that "T5 lights" or other may be much more ideal but like Hush mentioned it's a one time growth. Only need very small amounts for analysis.


----------



## Dr. Green Fang

Buy a good T5 fixture, sell it after your grow is over for nearly the cost of new :confused2: 

If you're experimenting for study, shouldn't you have at LEAST semi-optimal conditions? Or is trying to do this half way crooked part of the study? My point is.. if you spend money on a T5 fixture, e B a y or the list of Craig's will certainly get you nearly all your money back. Especially if you're only using this for one grow. 

Just my thoughts. I mean, you seem quite mentally invested in this study, why not do this logically? :aok:


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

mortaion said:
			
		

> Emailed him, the light spectrum is 5000K
> Which probably has a peak in the early 400nm's?
> I think it isn't that bad, maybe I'll buy two and use a splitter. About the heat, do you guy's think it will be that bad? I am able to buy two new 6-7inch fans. I do know that "T5 lights" or other may be much more ideal but like Hush mentioned it's a one time growth. Only need very small amounts for analysis.



Yes, I believe that the heat is going to be horrendous, however for 13 pounds you may want to try it.  Regular MH get quite hot (hotter than HPS) and if this is self ballasted, there is going to be ballast heat along with the heat the bulb naturally puts out.  Are you planning on buying a reflector?

 What kind of 6-7 fans are you planning on getting?    Just moving hot air around will do nothing to cool things.  You need the ability to bring cooler air into your space and exhaust hot air out.  Intakes can be passive, but you do need a good centrifuge type exhaust fan and a source for cool air.


----------



## mortaion

Just stumbled up on this auction:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2-X-5500K...243&pid=100005&prg=7588&rk=2&sd=330865005885&

Maybe I just buy this and add it to my other 125w CFL (2x 150w CFL for only 15 pounds!) Will this be better ?


----------



## mortaion

*UPDATE*

It's hard to tell if the plants are doing okay if you aren't experienced so I let you guy's judge here are the pics.

As you can see it isn't going perfect, but I don't know wheter it's good or bad, you tell me! (Multiple opinions are appreciated!)

What are the brown mini spots in the middle of the leave? And does it matter that two new leafs are "weakening, slightly yellowing"?


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## Dr. Green Fang

New growth looks good to me, and surely seems like they are bouncing back. :confused2:


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## Hushpuppy

The plant looks good. It is doing OK. Don't worry about the little bit of browning as the plant has suffered damage to both the leaves and the roots, and it will take time for these to heal (or be replaced). Those smaller leaves will eventually yellow and die once the plant gets bigger. As soon as its roots get back right and start feeding the plant good again, she will take off growing and will be nice and green. 

Those little brown spots are most likely the remnants of nute burn damage that are showing up in random places. If, as the plant grows, you continue to see a pattern of brown spots, then we have another issue but I suspect that's not the case here.

Those lights are like the ones that I had shown accept that they are 5500K rather than 6500K. See if you can find the 6500K as that is the ideal spectrum of light. Its funny, Our eyes can't see it but the 5500K light has very much green in it, which is worthless light to a plant. It will make you plant look really green because the plants leaves will reflect the green light from the bulb rather than absorbing its photons. If you can't find any other bulbs in 6500K, the 5500K will work, just not as good.


----------



## mortaion

Again, many thanks for *everyone *(in special Hush) supporting my project, every comment is appreciated!

I'll do my best finding 6500k bulbs, Ill let you guy's know and will post more updates with photos over three days, might ask some more questions tomorrow about the lights that I'll buy. Thanks²


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## Dr. Green Fang

Yes 6500k is truly one of the most important aspects here. :aok: 

Hush is quite good.


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## The Hemp Goddess

Are those actual 150W or equivalent wattage?  The pricing seems more in line with a 150W equivalent than an actual 150W.  Over here, a 42W which is a 150W equivalent runs around $10 each.  In addition, I am always a little leery of bulbs that do not list the lumens.

I am not sure that the spectrum is _that_ critical.  Some people veg with HPS which are usually in the 2500-3500K range.  I am more concerned about the lumens.


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## mortaion

Since it's almost 30cm long I can be quite sure it's actually pure 150w and not equiv. 
Would be quite strange to have a 30cm long and 9cm wide but only 42watt CFL bulb.

Lumens isn't metioned anywhere but it should be around 9000 I guess, it's sold over 70 times so I don't think it can be that bad, sellers has also nice feedback. But to be honest, I have no idea about the lumens either probably not a 12000lm standard as most 150w CFL's but it's can't be that bad otherwise people would have complained I guess...

Ebay is a constant competing market, thousands of sellers attempting to sell their goods as cheap as possible. Don't look at the prices, they can be ridiculously low because the seller, based in UK buys directly from the Hong Kong seller in amounts of 1000+. 
But don't worry, 95% of CFL's are made in Hong Kong, it's not poor quality it's probably the same quality as you would find in your local hardware store.


----------



## mortaion

*Again, no clue how they are doing, you tell me!
*
I did notice that the tips of the leaves became more brownish, the pics tell the story.

(UPDATE: Cotyledons are 80% brown )


----------



## Hushpuppy

They look like they are going to survive this initial burn.  Don't even worry about those leaves that are already burnt as they will eventually die and fall off, but that will be when the plants have grown bigger. As long as the leaves are at least half green, they are still producing for the plant so don't remove them. The plant will actually take the important nutrients from those leaves before dropping them.


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## mortaion

Hi,

*New growth is looking yellow on 2 out of 3 plants?*
Cotyledons are completly gone, could it be a defficiency this time? Or somethingelise? *Help please* and fast , thank you very much!

Thanks!

Edit: I did water them two times in a week but I did not checked pH but I did checked pH a week ago which was 6.8 If I remember correctly. Temperature, humidity and airflow can't be the problem.


----------



## The Hemp Goddess

You say that temps RH and airflow cannot be the problem.  Let's go over that again to make sure the environment is really okay.

Cotyledons always yellow and fall off.

How are you checking the pH?  What is the water quality of the water you are using?  

It is hard to try and give advise when they are in prenuted soil.  The yellowing doesn't really look a N deficiency to me either.  I am almost wondering about micro-nutrient deficiency.  Do you have any nutes for them?  What are you planning on feeding them?


----------



## mortaion

Actually, growing cannabis is a lot complicated then I thought it would be, it demands much more then the average plants.

But anyhow here is a picture of a liquid fertilizer I bought, it's the best I could find for the vegetative fase for cannabis.
*View second image, the first one is turned upside down*  It's another language but I hope you understand if not ask me.

Basically it sais: Liquid Fertilizer with NPK 7-3-6 with trace elements (=sporenelementen) , add 20ml each 3liter.

Water quality is just tap water that might be somewhat high in calcium, has a neutral pH (6.7) and tastes normal , further things I don't know


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## Hushpuppy

Hey Mortaion, so sorry to be late getting back to you on this. I agree with The Hemp Goddess that they are suffering at this point from micronutrient deficiency. When you flushed the soil, it must have stripped it better than we thought. With the damage that they suffered in the beginning, they had to use up their cotyledons sooner. So now it is time to feed them a bit. *This is where you must be extra carefull.*

The nutrients that you show there look like the correct line of nutrients for the vegetative stage but don't go by the directions exactly. What you need to do is look at the directions and see if it gives specific directions for feeding very young plants. If it doesn't say anything about young plants, and it only says to give 20ml per 3L water, that is for adult plants. What you will need to do is get a container that you can keep the water in for watering/feeding them. Then fill it with the 3liters of water and only add 1/4 of the total to the water. That means for right now you will only add to the water 5ml of the nutrient solution. 

You will mix this thoroughly and allow it to set for 1hr then check the PH of the solution. Then wait for 6hrs and check it again. If the PH does not change(and it is at the proper range of 6.5-6.9), it is ok for using to water/feed the plants. If the PH does change then you will need to wait another 6hrs and then check it again. Once the PH has reached a point where it isn't changing anymore then you can add in adjusters if it is outside the proper PH range(or use it if it is in the acceptable range).

If it isn't at the proper PH then you will need to adjust it to the proper PH by adding PH adjuster chemicals(acid buffer to lower PH and alkalinity buffer to raise PH). Then you will need to mix thoroughly and allow it to set again for 1hr and then test PH again. You may have to do this several times to get it right. Start by adding small amounts like 1-2ml of buffer chemicals at a time so that you don't over-shoot the target PH as it isn't good to be adding in both types of buffers to the same solution. After you have done this a few times, it will get much easier, and you will be able to skip steps as you learn how much of each chemical affects the solution PH.

Once you have the water/feed solution ready, you can add to the soil of each plant just enough water to wet the soil good. I wouldn't soak them to the point that they drain water unless the soil is drying out fairly quick. Keep your solution for future watering when the soil gets dry. With this type of watering/feeding, you will be feeding them every time you water, which is ok to do when you don't have soil with nutrients in it, and your solution is mild. 

Use this level of nutrients in your water for about 7-10 days unless you see significant growth withing 5 days. If you do see significant growth then when you need to make up another batch of "nute" solution, you will increase the level of nutes to 10ml to 3 liters of water and continue to water/feed as before. After 7days at this level, you should see continued significant growth. If no problems occur to this point and the plants are looking healthy you can increase the nutrients to 15ml per 3liters at the next batch of water/feed solution you make up for them. 

Each time you increase your nutrient level in your solution, give the plants 7-10days to react to the "nute" level before increasing again. This will allow you to monitor their growth and see if any problems occur. You will continue to increase the level of nute in the solution until you reach 20ml per 3liters or until you begin to see the tips of the leaves begin to burn again like they did at first. If you see this "tip burn" on the newer leaves, or the leaves begin to curl under as if forming the the shape of predator bird claws, that means you have reached the maximum amount of nutrients that the plants can handle, and you will have to use 5ml less in next batch of solution. If you have a fresh batch of solution and the plants show max "nute burn" or "leaf curl" then just dilute the solution with 1 liter of water rather than disposing of it. 

I know this is a lot to take in  but it gets easier over time as you get familiar with the needs of growing MJ. As you said, growing MJ is not at all as simple as one would think. Many, many new growers discover this and many end in failure because they are unwilling to embrace the needs of growing MJ. It is far more involved that one would think, but not as difficult as one would fear.


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## mortaion

Many thanks, I've done the steps you said.
pH was good (5ml / 1000ml). I've fed each plant 330ml, nothing drained out of the bottom (2l pots). 

Another question:
When I compare my plants to others it looks like mine is growing really slow  
It's already in it's third week and if I checkout some others , at their third week they are ALOOOOTT bigger are they lying or is mines slow because of the problems?

Thanks


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## Hushpuppy

Your plants are behind the regular growth rate because of the damage that they suffered at the beginning. They have had to rebuild their root system as well as repair damage throughout the plant body. The yellowing that we are seeing in them now is a possible sign that the roots have failed to regenerate, but I am hoping for you that it is just the lack of nutrients from the flushing. Now that you have added back the nutrients, we will see what happens. If they don't begin to grow more and see the leaves become more green within another 3-5 days then I fear they may die. I am hoping they make it. Green grow mojo my friend


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## mortaion

Thanks, I will keep you guys updated.
Also, when I transplanted the plants several weeks ago (1-2?) I couldn't see any roots only as close as 1,5 inch from the stem but anyhow we will just wait and see. Thumbs up!


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## mortaion

I think it do was a micronutrient defficiency.
Some yellow restored back green, judge yourself and compare with the two other pictures taken before.

But.. the micronutrient problem is solved but some other leaves browned even more (fertilizer burn)? So I don't really know what to do now, let the plant live with the micronutrient problem or take away that problem but live with nutrient burns?

It's really so remarkable how much this plants demands to just live healthy , it's never good enough


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## N.E.wguy

it's still growing is a good thing they are hard to kill but you shoudl pop a few seeds next time never bank on one sprout


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## Dr. Green Fang

> It's really so remarkable how much this plants demands to just live healthy , it's never good enough



Well, especially the way you did it to start, etc.. ya know? If you knew what you know now from learning by MP and trial/error... it would go a tad smoother. :aok:


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## mortaion

To be honest, the two comments above don't make me any smarter, anyonelse with some usefull critism,advice or predictions? Can't really use this kind of critism.

Thanks


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## Dr. Green Fang

lol


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## Hushpuppy

Hey Mortaion  It looks like adding back some nutrients was the right move for them as they definitely look better. That nute burn is actually old damage that is still showing itself. When they have been burned like they were, it takes some time for them to recover and they often will show continuing damage on the older leaves that wasn't noticed before. I believe the damage to the older leaves doesn't show right away as it is internal to the leaf, and the plant is trying to save the leaf even as it is showing more and more damage.

The important thing is that the newest leaves are still healthy. At some point the plant will decide that the older leaves are too damaged to be of use, then it will remove any usefull materials from those older leaves and allow them to dry up and fall off. The plant will take the materials and move them to the younger leaves to strengthen and grow them faster to support the plant's needs. Right now it seems like growing is far more difficult but that is because they started out badly and are still weak. Once they fully recover, they will take off and do better. 

The good thing about having these kinds of problems early is that you are learning more than you realize about the nature of MJ. As I said before, MJ is a very "finicky" plant but it is also a very hardy and determined plant. Try to remain patient and continue to feed them lightly until they start to grow a little faster. They will get stronger and will get growing faster, and then you will have to increase the level of nutrients to keep up with them.


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## mortaion

Ahaha, such a comment is *lovely*! Very usefull critiscm,advice and predictions, all three in one!
And that's true it's an awesome learning experience. Next time, I'll think twice before growing MJ , haha.

Okay fine, I will do that, the next time I water them, should I add again 1/4 fertilizer or water with pure water?

Thanks


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## Hushpuppy

Now you will continue to give them 1/4 fertilizer every time you water. Make sure to only water when the top of the soil feels almost dry to the touch. Stick your finger down into the soil to your middle knuckle and feel the moisture. You don't want it to be totally dry but mostly dry with just a little moisture. That is when it is ready for more water. If the very top of the soil is dry but down inside the soil it is still quite moist, then wait another day and check it again.

Stay with 1/4 fertilizer until you see the plants start to really take off growing. When you see that significant growth going, then it is time to increase the fertilizer to 1/2 strength. It will most likely be another 7-10 days before you increase the fertilizer to 1/2 strength.


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## mortaion

Thank everyone for help but..
the plants didn't gained any size in almost a month..
It didn't die but the already excisting leaves reduced size in more then 100% and started to lose color. It isn't dead but I decided to put the lights off since today, it's over they won't ever recover.

I did my best, gave them fertilizer but they are just damaged too much I think.
Next year more luck

I want to thank everyone in special Hushpuppy to give me this experience and advice, enjoyed it!


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## Hushpuppy

So sorry the adventure has to end so soon. I hope you try again with the new knowledge you have already gained


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## trillions of atoms

I think this thread ran its course....


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