# Stretching/Vertical Growth?



## 420THChef (Feb 12, 2011)

So, by having the light farther away from the plant, regardless of the cons of doing so, would that necessitate stretching or an accelerated vertical growth?
:shocked:


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## ozzydiodude (Feb 12, 2011)

it will cause stretching and weak stems


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## 420THChef (Feb 12, 2011)

alright, sweet.


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## Locked (Feb 13, 2011)

If you do it during flower you can expect light airy buds also.....


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## Hick (Feb 13, 2011)

420THChef said:
			
		

> So, by having the light farther away from the plant, regardless of the cons of doing so, would that necessitate stretching or an accelerated vertical growth?
> :shocked:



........curious... as to why you would want to stimulate vertical growth?

  "Stretch" is usually not sought after, as it moves the mass of your plant 'further' from the benefits of the light, slows growth, and makes for weaker, less productive plants..
  "Taller" does NOT mean more production/yeild, faster maturity, or faster growth, but quite the opposite.


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## Roddy (Feb 13, 2011)

I agree and disagree with Hick here...stretch...bad. Taller plants not always mean bigger yields...but may lol do it right and your plants will thank you for your efforts.


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## Locked (Feb 13, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I agree and disagree with Hick here...stretch...bad. Taller plants not always mean bigger yields...but may lol do it right and your plants will thank you for your efforts.




Stretch and vertical growth are not the same thing. You want to keep the nodes tight while increasing the plants size...but you don't want stretch which wld be a lot of space between nodes. A tall plant with big distances between nodes and a tall plant with tight node growth are not the same animal. Yes if you train your plants correctly (lst, super cropping, etc) you will increase yield. If you let your plant stretch not only will your yields not increase you will also be left with a tall spindly plant that will most likely have problems even standing up and unless you employ a lot of side lighting you will most likely have quite a bit of light airy buds. My Power Kush got away on me a bit and got stretched...the bottom half of the plant is pathetic yield and bud development wise.  JMO


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## BBFan (Feb 13, 2011)

:yeahthat: :goodposting: 
Good post Hammy.


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## 420THChef (Feb 13, 2011)

Thanks for your input everyone.

I have a unique training technique along with LST that, when done properly, yields favorable results.
The plants end up growing quicker, but like a muscle they are nourished after the strain and rebuilds its proteins larger and stronger. 

I monitor the few plants i have under much scrutiny and measure and compare lapse photos for size and color changes regularly. I am very invested in my garden lol. I grow as if they were children I suppose. Also regularly play music. Mythbusters aside, music is shown to stimulate plant growth. uite noticeably in some cases.


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## ozzydiodude (Feb 13, 2011)

Cool. Why don't you do a grow journal and share you way of growing with us.


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## trillions of atoms (Feb 13, 2011)

super cropping?


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## Wetdog (Feb 14, 2011)

So, you want to make it taller in order to make it shorter?????????

Wet


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## Roddy (Feb 14, 2011)

LOL, I think we agree fully here, Hammy, that's why I said if done right....just wondering though, why Hick asked this: ........curious... as to why you would want to stimulate vertical growth?


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## Hick (Feb 14, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> LOL, I think we agree fully here, Hammy, that's why I said if done right....just wondering though, why Hick asked this: ........curious... as to why you would want to stimulate vertical growth?



because vertical stretching is "usually" NOT something you want "stimulated".
 "Vertical" growth, puts more of your plant. further from it's light source. Reducing the efficiency of your space. 
it is why ppl train, top, super crop, FIM, ect. all processes that _"inhibit"_ stretching your distance *away* from the light source.

_"If done right"_.. is such a vague and elusive statement.
What would "you" consider.."right"?


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## johnp (Feb 14, 2011)

View attachment 003[1].JPG
i have recently taken over being a med caregiver the original grower let the plants grow, never trimming only watering and little nutes these plants all have stretched, at first the plants were cramped together they are in a bigger room now having more area and in turn more light what should i do they are still tall but i am dropping the light when i do top them so they will stop the stretch View attachment 019[1].JPG


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 15, 2011)

johnp said:
			
		

> View attachment 159921
> i have recently taken over being a med caregiver the original grower let the plants grow, never trimming only watering and little nutes these plants all have stretched, at first the plants were cramped together they are in a bigger room now having more area and in turn more light what should i do they are still tall but i am dropping the light when i do top them so they will stop the stretch View attachment 159922



You need way way way more light (among other things) for those if you hope to get anything at all.  I recommend that you start your own thread and you will get way more responses.


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## Roddy (Feb 15, 2011)

Currently in process of moving my bud rooms to two 10'x14'x10' rooms, will be trying to grow 7' tall plants...we'll see how this works!


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## zem (Feb 15, 2011)

:holysheep: with these plants and this light, i'll be surprised if you get more than stems and pistils as harvest. maybe couple of crappy joints lol i think you will need several kw of light to flower those monsters


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## Hick (Feb 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> LOL, I think we agree fully here, Hammy, that's why I said if done right....just wondering though, why Hick asked this: ........curious... as to why you would want to stimulate vertical growth?
> 
> Currently in process of moving my bud rooms to two 10'x14'x10' rooms, will be trying to grow 7' tall plants...we'll see how this works!


http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=662177&postcount=14  I hope that answered 'your' question satisfactory. Any chance of you returning the courtesy?..

10X14 is going to require somewhere around seven 1k hids for coverage.. 



> The intensity of light observed from a source of constant intrinsic luminosity falls off as the square of the distance from the object. This is known as the inverse square law for light intensity.
> Thus, if I double the distance to a light source the observed intensity is decreased to (1/2)2 = 1/4 of its original value.




At double the distance, the same light spreading out through clear air without being absorbed, falls on four times the area at double the distance but gives only a quarter of the illumination. 
This is why we don't often see 7 foot tall plants indoors.


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## nouvellechef (Feb 15, 2011)

This thread lost me. 

OP: Hope you got your answer

JohnP: You need to take cuts, if you want to keep that strain and trash those plants. Not worth the time and energy to finish those.

Roddy: 2, 10x14 bud rooms? You sure you know what your dealing with here? The cash to dial rooms like that is in the tens of thousands. I know.... As far as 7' plants. Thats so ridic I dont know where to begin. Hope you were joking. Not only would it be a nightmare to tie up, if indeed they do make it to a healthy 17 weeks or so, but the lumen loss would be ridic also as far as penetration to the lower canopy. Indoor plants are geared to be trained or topped and keep them as low as possible. As said, just because you grow a   7' plant doesnt mean it will yield heavily. I could out yield a 7' with a 2' and have a much easier grow session as far as many factors.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 15, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Currently in process of moving my bud rooms to two 10'x14'x10' rooms, will be trying to grow 7' tall plants...we'll see how this works!



I am curious why anyone would want to try and grow a 7' plants indoors?  No matter what kind of light you have, the bottom half of your plant is not going to get good light.  I don't see an upside here?


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## BBFan (Feb 15, 2011)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I am curious why anyone would want to try and grow a 7' plants indoors? No matter what kind of light you have, the bottom half of your plant is not going to get good light. I don't see an upside here?


 
But I sure would like to see it done right.


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## Roddy (Feb 15, 2011)

I dunno, but the 6' I grew produced a nice 9.5 oz of killer dope. Like I said, we'll experiment and see.....

Have a 3' tall trainwreck I've been training out a bit, will veg her a few more weeks to see how tall we can go!


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## Roddy (Feb 15, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=662177&postcount=14  I hope that answered 'your' question satisfactory. Any chance of you returning the courtesy?..
> 
> 10X14 is going to require somewhere around seven 1k hids for coverage..
> 
> ...



Sure Hick...what's the question?

I hope I'm not irking anyone, my intent is to learn and to grow big yields. Knowing the room I currently am in couldn't hold more than 4 plants the size of the Kandy Kush I recently harvested (beautiful plant I might add, as green at harvest as the day I took her from veg as opposed to the shorter Northern Lights and Pineapple Express which both had a severe cal/mag def), I have no choice bit to move up in size if I am to bud more than 4 plants at a time. I don't necessarily have to use the full size of the rooms, but will use as much as needed. Elec costs will soon not be a worry, so neither will amount of lights save initial costs and cooling issues...and bulb replacements as needed of course.

I hope to bud upwards of 12 plants at a time, 4 for myself and 4 for each patient, producing enough to keep us all in more than enough dope to smoke. Even if I grow shorter plants, they definitely will be 3' on average in width....room will be needed regardless of how tall the gals are grown.


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## Roddy (Feb 15, 2011)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> This thread lost me.
> 
> OP: Hope you got your answer
> 
> ...



Not joking and not seeing how a foot taller will be much more of a problem...we'll see. As I said above, my 6' plant was the most healthy of the ones I've grown so far...could be strain had a lot to do with that, but then, I can always live with growing the KK since she is an awesome high and taste. Win/win, if this is indeed the case. I say 9.5 ounces was harvested, this was the total of the plant harvested on harvest day, I was smoking her a few days before harvest, and we smoked a good amount while taking off stem and putting into jar...before being weighed. Actual total was likely a lot closer to 10 ounces...and I think I harvested a week early.

As for easy...right up until the last 3 weeks or so, I didn't do a thing but water the 6' beaut...I could have gotten incredibly lucky, but am more than willing to try again! Tying up...was a nightmare at times...what fun that was though! :smoke1:

Adding...as far as dialed in, I am currently growing using a 1k HPS, a 400w MH and an osc fan....nothing more in equip. Dialing in as I go at this point as money allows. Can't wait to see what I harvest when I do have the optimal set-up!


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## nouvellechef (Feb 16, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Not joking and not seeing how a foot taller will be much more of a problem...we'll see. As I said above, my 6' plant was the most healthy of the ones I've grown so far...could be strain had a lot to do with that, but then, I can always live with growing the KK since she is an awesome high and taste. Win/win, if this is indeed the case. I say 9.5 ounces was harvested, this was the total of the plant harvested on harvest day, I was smoking her a few days before harvest, and we smoked a good amount while taking off stem and putting into jar...before being weighed. Actual total was likely a lot closer to 10 ounces...and I think I harvested a week early.
> 
> As for easy...right up until the last 3 weeks or so, I didn't do a thing but water the 6' beaut...I could have gotten incredibly lucky, but am more than willing to try again! Tying up...was a nightmare at times...what fun that was though! :smoke1:
> 
> Adding...as far as dialed in, I am currently growing using a 1k HPS, a 400w MW and an osc fan....nothing more in equip. Dialing in as I go at this point as money allows. Can't wait to see what I harvest when I do have the optimal set-up!



Got pics of the 9.5oz er?


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## Roddy (Feb 16, 2011)

my avatar is one of the KK at 6 weeks budding, she's at 6' 7" following the stalk, she's 6' total from soil to top of bud if going straight up....the pictures all say I have already uploaded...except this one, which is same as my avatar.


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## Hick (Feb 16, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Sure Hick...what's the question?
> 
> I hope I'm not irking anyone, my intent is to learn and to grow big yields. Knowing the room I currently am in couldn't hold more than 4 plants the size of the Kandy Kush I recently harvested (beautiful plant I might add, as green at harvest as the day I took her from veg as opposed to the shorter Northern Lights and Pineapple Express which both had a severe cal/mag def), I have no choice bit to move up in size if I am to bud more than 4 plants at a time. I don't necessarily have to use the full size of the rooms, but will use as much as needed. Elec costs will soon not be a worry, so neither will amount of lights save initial costs and cooling issues...and bulb replacements as needed of course.
> 
> I hope to bud upwards of 12 plants at a time, 4 for myself and 4 for each patient, producing enough to keep us all in more than enough dope to smoke. Even if I grow shorter plants, they definitely will be 3' on average in width....room will be needed regardless of how tall the gals are grown.



""...._"If done right"_.. is such a vague and elusive statement.
What would "you" consider.."right"?".. 
  Wondering what you considered "right"..  I was interested in what you intended for lighting mainly, "IF" you plan to go 7'.    
I thought maybe you had some immaculate system for side lighting, vertical, ect. to cover the lumen loss/distance. 
Just interested to see ...


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## pcduck (Feb 16, 2011)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I am curious why anyone would want to try and grow a 7' plants indoors?  No matter what kind of light you have, the bottom half of your plant is not going to get good light.  I don't see an upside here?



I am also :confused2: on why they would do this.

I was just in Lower Western Michigan and seen some 6' tall plants in some indoor grow rooms. The growers had trimmed the branches off the first 4.5' of the stalk. So that the actual bud sites were only 1.5'-2' of the top half. Sort of looked like a 2' tall plant on a 4' tall stick. I do not know why they did this.:confused2: 

Roddy if your plant is as green when you harvest as when it is in veg, I would either let it go longer or cut down on the nitrogen.just my $0.02:bong:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 16, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> .....I say 9.5 ounces was harvested, *this was the total of the plant harvested on harvest day*....



Then this was wet weight--far different than dried weight.


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## Roddy (Feb 16, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> ""...._"If done right"_.. is such a vague and elusive statement.
> What would "you" consider.."right"?"..
> Wondering what you considered "right"..  I was interested in what you intended for lighting mainly, "IF" you plan to go 7'.
> I thought maybe you had some immaculate system for side lighting, vertical, ect. to cover the lumen loss/distance.
> Just interested to see ...



THANKS Hick, I do have plans for T5 side lighting as well possibly some vert to boot. Not gonna play the track game, a friend has those and I'm not impressed...would rather have continual lighting at all "day" time.

Truly, I see some are skeptical as to the truth of my 6'+ plant...that's cool! I am more than happy with the finished product and have nothing to prove here at all, just asking questions and making plans. If it can't be done, no biggie, I will still be using all the equip, no loss at all (experience is priceless).


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## Roddy (Feb 16, 2011)

pcduck said:
			
		

> I am also :confused2: on why they would do this.
> 
> I was just in Lower Western Michigan and seen some 6' tall plants in some indoor grow rooms. The growers had trimmed the branches off the first 4.5' of the stalk. So that the actual bud sites were only 1.5'-2' of the top half. Sort of looked like a 2' tall plant on a 4' tall stick. I do not know why they did this.:confused2:
> 
> Roddy if your plant is as green when you harvest as when it is in veg, I would either let it go longer or cut down on the nitrogen.just my $0.02:bong:



I have a few pics around here somewhere of the plant when cut, me standing beside it...yes it's nice and lush still. Yes, I already said I believe I plucked her a touch early, I guess around a week...had around a 50/50 amber trich count, but betting more amber would have made this beast even better? There was a slight amount of yellowing of the big fan leaves, but the plant was still very healthy looking at time of harvest. Nitrogen? Not sure which product added that since my nutes are in the bud room which is in darkness right now, but I doubt I was overfeeding it in any way...likely wasn't giving her enough attention (I am certain there will be doubt with this statement as well, but it's true). I BELIEVE the reason for her staying so healthy and hassle-free was the fact I took her from a 5gal container and moved her to an 18g container right before she started budding. The new soil and the new room for root growth likely made her one happy gal!

Your lollipopping comment, I have a friend doing this right now and I tell you, if Id have done that to the kush, I'd have lost a few oz as the bottom branches most certainly produced a good quantity of quality tight bud! Trust when I say I will not be chopping on the plants early for any reason.


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## Roddy (Feb 16, 2011)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Then this was wet weight--far different than dried weight.



I am sorry, I did use improper terminology, but no, the final weight was of dried and ready to smoke bud. I weighed her the next day and the next, no loss due to drying since being jarred and locked up. Took 4 days total of drying time, am burping the jars locked in the safe and slowly smoking the dry but uncured product right now along with the pineapple express. The curing buds have a bit better taste and seems to be a touch more potent...but that just means it's gonna get better?? LMAO, what a deal! And when I say better taste, keep in mind that the KK has been named the #1 choice of a friend I consider a very seasoned smoker (40 years+ of smoking)...and his buddy is harvesting a plant about once a week or so (many choices, I am very proud to be the grower of the best so far). He has the only dried buds, none cured (he doesn't keep his in a jar, but a baggie...guess it'll also slowly cure there??)

I will also add, my 9.5 oz of dope set the bar around here, was the most harvested, the biggest plant grown and the best product...SWEET!! This is, of course, between myself and several friends, I am more than certain others have grown far more quantity and quality from a single plant...but does make one proud!


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## Roddy (Feb 16, 2011)

I do plan to go to 7', as I said, how much different from the 6'+ plant can it be? If it doesn't work, oh well, live, learn and love it all! 

To the OP...hope this is all benefiting you, didn't mean to hijack your thread at all...will start a new one if it's thought this is best.


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## Roddy (Feb 16, 2011)

Oh, and Hick...7 1k hid sounds about right...I was planning on using more, but that's good to know, THANKS! Plan is to use growzilla hoods, placing 1 HPS and 1 MH in each hood...not sure how many as yet, but starting with 2 growzillas and the lights I currently have, will add as I have need for the space.

Plans for side-lighting are 8 bulb T5's wrapped around the room to feed the bodies...have used this method with the fluorowing lighting the body of the kush, I suspect this was partial reason for the nice tight lower buds.

IF I decide vert lighting is needed, it won't cost much (hanger and bulb) and can be aded simply enough!


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## Roddy (Feb 16, 2011)

Ahhh, a little less high, I see why my weight statement was misunderstood...lol, I'm not good at expressing my thoughts at times (usually when high lmao).

THG, I did mean this:  I say 9.5 ounces was harvested, this was the total of the plant harvested on harvest day...

But what I meant is that's the weight of all bud harvested on harvest day, NOT what it weighed harvest day. In other words, the weight of all buds harvested on harvest day was 9.5 oz dried. There was more than the 9.5 oz, as I said, but it was smoked up as sampling and during jarring. I recall the bud I cut early and quick-dried was 10grams.


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## nouvellechef (Feb 16, 2011)

Well I will say this. Dual 14x10 rooms is more dank then you would know what to do with. Mega chron bro. When done correctly. If your yielding 9.5 zips in a soil application, inside. Then I guess you could take that into a larger setting. 9.5zips is a big yielder in soil, inside.


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## trillions of atoms (Feb 16, 2011)

Dual bulb vert lighting  blubs spaced a foot or two, and flower tonight. lol 


spread the plants out in the one room...at 8 sites would pull all that these plants could do in thier current conditions without repotting into tubs and doing it right with co2.

14kw with a couple plants per set would be enough but just throwing a 1k or two will (like everyone said) be void of purpose other than the meristem canopy that gets all the light. the lower buds will be zilch because of crowding and stretch. But you can still yield nice with a couple thousand watts and what ya got....you just will have ALOT of plant height with a foot canopy of buds above if lucky...


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## Roddy (Feb 17, 2011)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Well I will say this. Dual 14x10 rooms is more dank then you would know what to do with. Mega chron bro. When done correctly. If your yielding 9.5 zips in a soil application, inside. Then I guess you could take that into a larger setting. 9.5zips is a big yielder in soil, inside.



My friend building the rooms will also have a license and be a caregiver, so we'll need more room as time goes by...won't be using all space right off.

As I said before, i could have been incredibly lucky with the first plant, but will have a lot of fun trying to replicate!! The main cola on that beast was 1oz alone.


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## Roddy (Feb 17, 2011)

trillions of atoms said:
			
		

> Dual bulb vert lighting  blubs spaced a foot or two, and flower tonight. lol
> 
> 
> spread the plants out in the one room...at 8 sites would pull all that these plants could do in thier current conditions without repotting into tubs and doing it right with co2.
> ...



I dunno, but the very lowest branches on the KK produced...nicely I might add! I don't recall but maybe a couple of completely useless branches, the rest produced good tight bud.


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## Roddy (Feb 17, 2011)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> Well I will say this. Dual 14x10 rooms is more dank then you would know what to do with. Mega chron bro. When done correctly. If your yielding 9.5 zips in a soil application, inside. Then I guess you could take that into a larger setting. 9.5zips is a big yielder in soil, inside.



The Kandy Kush has trainwreck in her, known for her yield...could be the strain and getting lucky (keep in mind, this was my very first successful harvest). I have 3 more beans to drop, we're gonna test and see!

I have a trainwreck upstairs right now, tied down a bit and being trained. She's at 30" right now, but is bent over a good bit as well as being tied down on many branches. No room in budding for another week or so, we're gonna see how big this beast can go! She was recently transplanted to a 10gal smartpot...so should be good to go!


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## trillions of atoms (Feb 17, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I dunno, but the very lowest branches on the KK produced...nicely I might add! I don't recall but maybe a couple of completely useless branches, the rest produced good tight bud.




Depends on your definition of good tight bud bro... 


If your canopy with horizontal lighting is @ 7 ft..and your lower branches are a couple feet to 5 feet under that with (how much lighting you running again??)  will self explain what lumen content they will get after crowding and atmospheric penetration. Plants vegging at three feet will take substantial vert lighting all around to yield "good and tight" on my standard with decent weight.

This is not talking hypothetical either as I've had more than "one successful harvests" with more than "one method or methods that  are done right yield favorable results".


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## Roddy (Feb 17, 2011)

LOL TOA, all that put in simple terms means you feel the plants will not get much light due to crowding and canopy...understood.

I don't know how else to put it, but the plant was a good producer from top to bottom, not many branches were useless altogether while many produced at least some favorable bud! I mean, my standard, your standard....it still produced 9.5 oz of tight, hard and very appealing bud. IF I can do this with one plant under 1400w of HID and having on and off side-lighting of another 125w and only using an osc fan and the open door as vent....I will be blown away should it get better! I will say that the buds were different from any I had ever seen...almost a "grape-bunch" type effect, they looked like cornrolls of buds

I have no doubt as to your or anyone's ability here, TOA and I in no way am making light of anything anyone has said...and I say again, I may have been incredibly lucky....but I can only report what I have experienced and the results. I can't determine what your standard is, but will tell you I am smoking the best dope I have smoked in many a year...and I grew it all myself! Whether I can do it at another foot taller or not is left to be seen, but I am more than game to try and am happy to hear the info given (and take the ridic and impossible comments as a challenge).

I love this forums, a ton of great help has come my way in the short time I've been here....

ETA: Here's a pic of 4 randomly picked buds from the KK jar: 



Here's a pic of my around 30" White Widow under the 6 bulb T5 vegging...she's almost as wide as tall with some training being done at this point: 


Last pic I took...here's the Pineapple Express. Now, talk about tight solid buds...WOW, these suckers will bounce! However, not as potent as the kush...sweeter tasting though!


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## pcduck (Feb 17, 2011)

Roddy what brand of light and ballast do you run for flower?

If you can get the same light penetration from top to bottom on 7', I would like to improve my lighting and I want what you got. 

BIU:bong:


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## Roddy (Feb 17, 2011)

Bulb 1 is a 100w Hortilux EYE Super HPS, bulb 2 is a GE (I believe) 400w MH. Bulb 3 is a Fluorowing 125 daylight florescent used for side-lighting. Ballast is unknown, will get the name tonight...it's in bud room which is in darkness. 

I'll add that the osc fan is generic and doesn't osc, I open the door during daylight hours for ventilation. There's also an electric heater used for both temp readings and to keep the otherwise unheated pantry (was a porch originally and is very poorly insulated at best) warmish. This is the extent of equipment used for flowering to date. Scary, ain't it?


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