# College Student Paying Way With Marijuana Crop



## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

*College Student Paying Way With Marijuana Crop
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]posted August 25, 2008[/FONT]

A 21-year-old Ooltewah man who authorities say was paying his way through college with a basement marijuana crop had charges bound to the Grand Jury on Monday.

Andrew Eugene Richie is charged with manufacturing marijuana, possession of marijuana for resale, possession of drug paraphernalia and possession of a prohibited weapon.

County Officer Eliott Mahaffey said he was investigating an allegation involving Brad Kyle went he went to the residence of Richie at 8703 Snow Hill Road.

He said there was a report that Kyle, who was driving a gold Infiniti, was making threats to kill someone.
*
*The officer said he began to question Richie, saying he was suspicious when he was untruthful with him about his relationship with Kyle.

He also said there had been reports about a lot of traffic going to the Richie residence.

He said Richie agreed he could walk through the house, saying there were no drugs or weapons inside.

Officer Mahaffey said the house had a strong odor of marijuana. He said items he spotted in the house included a .22-caliber rifle, a sawed-off shotgun with a bullet in the chamber and drug paraphernalia.

He said he asked to check the basement and Richie first said he did not have a key. Then he agreed to let him in.

Officer Mahaffey said Richie told him he would find "a lot of marijuana. You're going to love this. You'll probably get a promotion."

The officer said there were fluorescent lights and an irrigation system for 144 marijuana plants.

He said Richie also pointed out some opium.

Richie told where the officer could find $700 in his bedroom.

The officer also found a notebook detailing drug sales and amounts owed. "He kept very good records," the officer said.

Officer Mahaffey said Richie "was making enough money to pay his way through college."

Attorney Jerry Summers had a number of questions about the search and whether consent had been given.

He said Richie has no prior record.*



*hxxp://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_133869.asp*


*one of my friends went to tennesee last week and brought back a newspaper wit this  same deal in it. so i found it online thought it was  crazy.*
* i mean, this kid was growing so he could go to college. how do imprison someone wit these intentios man...*
*  one of my old friends back in the day did this. he came from a very broken home. family was dirt poor and he pretty much had to quit school high school when was 17 to help on the farm after his dad had a heart attack. so u can bout see how college was not even an option to him. he could not get a loan or grant for watever reason, so he started growing weed  to pay thru college after he got his GED.  he honestly never even smoked the crap. just  sold it. then one day a game warden  was snoopin round  on his land  beins he herd gunshots thinkin it was poachers, was his story and he stumbled upon his  grow.  even knowing all this and  it bein verified all the way down to his  not using MJ and  the story of poor family wantin to go to college etc.. the judge still give him 15 years. its been 9 since he went in and up for parole next year.  *
*  the guy hadn't even gotten to his first harvest ever and he got busted. nor had he made any money yet from it.*
*  this system makes it tough almost impossible fopr some to ever acheive and move forward in life and to be productive members  of society so it forces some of the best people into desperation thus selling drugs for money  to pay bills    go to school etc... *
*  "The government giveth and the government taketh away"*
* 


*


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## Hick (Aug 30, 2008)

shoulda' got a J. O. B. ... 
.. he has just made "life" a LOT more difficult for himself..


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

So ripping off stoners by selling weed at stupid high prices is ok as long as it keeps someone from having to get an actual job like tens of thousands of other kids have done to work their way through college.

Becoming part of the CRIME-GUNS-DEATH cycle of selling weed is ok then?

NO, IT IS NOT.

It sounds like the kid was too stupid to be in college. He'll meet lots of other stupid people in prison were he can join in and tell his story to other CRIME-GUNS-DEATH greedy A-holes that think ripping off people because YOU NEED MONEY is ok.

Screw the little greedy A-hole. I hope he enjoys prison.


*GROW YOUR OWN. TAKE MARIJUANA AWAY FROM THE CRIME-GUNS-DEATH cartels and give it back to the people who use it as the friendly weed it is.*


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

wow.....     sometimes life throws curveballs at some people  that makes and prevents them to do and be wat they can or want and most the time that factor is MONEY and how is it ripping people off sellin it for that reason. it not like dude was  jackin up a trumped up price to  be gredy bout it.
  to those who cant grow their own but can afford to buy or prefer to purchase it i say hey thats their perrogative man.  nothin is for free in this world. 
  think of all the risks and  work energy time effort etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc it took just so u could have that  fat ounce u may have purchased.  thats the reason for high prices bro.  and them reasons are the result of our own governments doings on marijuana. hell, if it  wasnt illegal and people were allowed to grow and distribute themselves tax free do u really thinkk that the prices would ever remain as high as they are?
  thats why weed is so dam high priced more. its not the  distributors its our government. they have their ways of putting a suffocating control on everything weather obvious, silently subliminally intentional or accidental etc etc... 
  as for my friend who did this to ern way thru college. his dad had a heart attack he was the oldest his next  in line sibling was a sister who was only 8. and his mom was in no shape to do all the work on the farm herself and his dad had heart attack restricting him from the farming and handling of the cattle himself thus making it dificult for him to even go get a part time job on the side to pay way for school. also the little money that the farm was bringin in was barely enough to get by  it all went back to the banks preventing foreclosure.  
now could they afford to hire any help.
  all this was  so that he could raise enough money  to at least hire some help etc and get  on to college, until they could sell out on the farm and not be left with 2 pennies to rub together.

this is the sad life of so many farmers around here and getting worse as years go by. 
  so tell me wat u woulda done in his situation given the  option to grow and sell.



			
				POTUS said:
			
		

> So ripping off stoners by selling weed at stupid high prices is ok as long as it keeps someone from having to get an actual job like tens of thousands of other kids have done to work their way through college.
> 
> Becoming part of the CRIME-GUNS-DEATH cycle of selling weed is ok then?
> 
> ...


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## Hick (Aug 30, 2008)

...so is his family better off, now that hes in jail??
..can't work the farm 'at all' from prison.. 

  but it looks like it worked out for him..
  I hear they do have the oppurtunity to further their education in prison..


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc it took just so u could have that fat ounce u may have purchased. thats the reason for high prices bro.
> 
> so tell me wat u woulda done in his situation given the option to grow and sell.


 
Sorry man, that's bull. He did it because it was easy money. He didn't care that he was joining the ranks of the Drug Cartels by ripping people off with stupid high prices for each oz of weed he sold. Save the crap about the gov and how much time and risk it took. That's the standard line from rip off artists who sell weed.

Had I been in his position, I would have gotten a regular job and worked as hard as I could, as many hours as I could to pay for my education or would have gone back later and done it at a more favorable time.

The need for money is NOT a good reason to rip off people.

"Oh, I sold meth so I could support my poor ailing grandmother who lost all her money to the big bad government".

So THAT'S what you would call a good reason?

Like I said, justifying a rip-off is just that.

I grow my own. I GIVE AWAY what I don't need to those who I call friends. There's a concept.

GREED makes MJ sellers eyes light up. "Oh man, this is great Szhit! It sells for 100 bucks an eighth in the city, I can sell it for 80 and make a killin! The stupid idiots will think they're getting a deal !!!"

This is how greedy little jerks think.

Then they buy guns and leave them loaded in their closets in case some other rip-off artist decides to rip them off. Then they're willing to KILL ANOTHER HUMAN to protect their stash of over priced weed.

Don't even try to justify selling weed at street prices to me.

Tell me you sell world class weed for your cost plus 100% to make a FAIR profit and you'll hear me say "Hey, that's cool man."

I've been growing weed for a LONG, LONG time. Right now, it costs me about $300 a pound to grow. I don't need the money so I give my extra away when my friends need it. If I did sell it, and I have in the past, it would be at $5 an eighth. That's TWICE what it cost me to grow it.

Risk, smisk, you smoke weed. You grow weed for yourself. The risk is always there. If you use that risk to justify ripping off someone by selling weed at 20 times a fair price, you're nothing but another slime-ball cartel wannabe.

Sorry man, you're trying to talk that crap to the wrong person.


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## Tater (Aug 30, 2008)

Potus what gives the government any right to decide what I can and cannot ingest into my body whether it is cocaine or coca cola.  And since when is 100% of what it cost you to produce something a fair market price.  Want to know what it costs to take barrel of oil out of the ground in Fort McMurry?  About 8 bucks and then we sell it for about 100 bucks a barrel.   Why because its how economics work.  Its supply versus demand.  If I were able to grow pot in a field and grow acres of it the supply would soon outstrip the demand and drive prices down.  Now because it is an illegal substance to begin with (which makes you a criminal along with the cartels and no better in the laws eyes) this makes it much harder to obtain.  The demand is now larger than the supply.  If people quit buying weed because they had enough or didn't need anymore prices would drop.  It's pretty basic economics.  And it is pure economics because you aren't dealing with an addictive substance.

I see no problem with selling weed to put yourself through college.  People that grow wheat do the same thing.  Do you honestly believe that if you offered a farmer triple for his wheat crop he would say no?  Of course not but the only way that would happen is if something happened to the supply and the world was left short.


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## clanchattan (Aug 30, 2008)

dollars to doughnuts ''Richie" was matriculating with asperation of a b.s. in buisiness admin. i'll give 3:5 odds. now he'll have to persue a ph.d in DUMBASSITY. with a minor in taking it deep while incarcerated. records are not needed for PAY-GO. no cash no dope.

and another instance of a ignorant person being walked on by a cop. ''Dur..sure you can take a look around, ossifer, you dont need a warrant.''

what a dolt.

a lil financial aid? a lil student loan? a lil grant money?

(in my best john witherspoon voice) '' The word for today is job, Craig. J-O-B.''


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## KGB30 (Aug 30, 2008)

Sooner or later it will be legal and then all the liberals can shove it.lol


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## andy52 (Aug 30, 2008)

tell you what,i worked my *** off paying my own way thru college.my family was poor also.i'm the only one in my family that finished college.it was rough and sometimes i felt like giving up.but i persevered.my mom and dad were proud of me also.it took many yrs. to pay off my student loans.at the time it never entered my mind to do it any other way.some people look for the easy way out and it bites them in the arse.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

potus---- exactly, u been growing a long long time and sold in past etc etc... but there are still some of us who are right where u were  before u did ur very first grow along wit others etc.  u've grown accustomed to having a constant supply and not having to deal wit dealers and prices to buy it etc, 
  yeah if i became a novice to growing  over the years which i'm sure u have become urself.  300 bones for a whole elbow is pretty damn good in my mind especially for some nice  prime cured nuggs.  yeah if i was in ur boat and had an endless supply and never had to relly worry bout finding smoke or how to get it etc yada yada then yeah i'd say hell wit it and to all my frenz>>>one for you, one for you , one for you and one for you and so on for no charge as well.  but not everyone in this world is as fortunate or in any similar position as u to where an eith is nothin really.
  maybe someday i will be tho. that is my goal and my whole reason for  learnin to grow my own and be good at it so i too one day can be self sufficient and generous with wat i have.
  but u  dont realize how things are  i dont think. actually i think it more the location and  the numbers of supply and demand like tater said. (diddo)
  and yes there are  greedy people in the drug game who are very deceiving and ripp off artist etc etc.
  but one thing to think about.   when u go to buy a new car u go to a car DEALERSHIP right?   no dam difference there. supply and demand popularity efficienncy etc all play  important factors in the price of the car.  and if everyone else sold any product of theirs for wat it cost them then where would orur economic infrastructure go?  and you dont think that  weed bein illegal doesn't play a great role in our economic standing. hell where do u think our government gets the money and wat have u to fund these drug wars on POT especially.  u dont think ur being hustled by our govt  even wit high taxes beins thats obviously one source  of the funding to  put people  who sell use posess and yes even grow like even urself, behind bars.   (hipocritical?)   also knowing that they could find ur stash or grow and take ur families home  ur car/s everythin in it   just cuz u harmlessly grow  for ur own...?  i think our government is not to be defended in this matter by anyone on MP  JMO.  as they(govt) are merely snakes in the grass.  they the real dealers and pushers and the root of it all and wat drives people to do wat they do  most the time as far as prices go for weed man. 
  i dont mean to offend u if i did by any of this  and also i hope u dont look at me with the impression that im some sort street thug dope peddlin  cold greedy hustler.   CUZ I"M NOT.  we all do wat we gotta do. and if i pay say 300 for a qp personal and someone asks to buy some u dam rights i'm not just gonna give the **** away.  i dont sell weed tho but lets just say i was i sure as hell would charge standard price for it. if it was up to me it'd be more considerin i have to travel and risk gettin caught wit it etc...  there's a price for everything in this world now days.  ur biggest hustlers are the oil company's and friken wal-mart-oh my god they ridiculous.  and most of all the kingpin of all the corruption all stems down to our government.  just think bout it man.  if u had to go to say ten states away  to  get some for decent price are u gonna come back after drivin  that far  wit **** on u  the risks etc just to give the stuff away as stocking stuffers on xmas...?  
  i myself do not like the way the MJ world runs most the time either wether prices quality etc... but  hey its life  so i pay the fee man.  or i just go without. or  u can grow ur own like all us are doing or are tryin to do and  be efficient at it.  but some  just absolutely have the means of growing their own so they resort to  buying the stuff commercially. thats their choice weather i like it or u like it or they like it or not.     
  i mean do u go to wal-mart  for toilet paper and realize that they  raised the price  from last time are u gonna go to the service desk and give them the same speech u did in this thread bout  bein greedy etc etc... or u just gonna mutter under ur breathe how its bullshit and buy the toilet paper anyway?  u want to wipe ur *** dont u?  so u just pay for the crap.  how is it any diff from this?  do u think the economic world ever charges just enough for things to cover the cost of wat it took to make it all?  i doubt it.  same goes for everythin in the world.
  but the part bout my frend gettin a job...  yeah i agree but dude  sometimes desperation and emotions mixed  with the possible onset of catrastrophe can drive even the most honest and  civil people to doin desperate things especially when confronted with life altering dilema's so they do wat they gotta do but within reason.  
  when he did  buy some and resell it  yeah he charged  more than what he paid for it but that was cuz he got it cheaper in bulk as so many do and he still sold it at fair market treet value. not some  outrageous unrealistic price.
  he basically supported his whole family saved the farm and was almost to enough money to where he could  get banks paid off  and mom would be able to live in peace  and  could throw in towel on farming but still keep the home at least and he could go off to college to better himself  later to better his family.    and the guy never ever once smoked it.  was not in any way a hoodlum of sorts etc.. just a small town farm kid livin thru tough times. his dad passed on a year after his heart attack and  it was only his mom an sister left. so even if he hadnt gone to prison for this and he'd have  done everythin society told him to do then i guarantee he and his family woulda lost everything and ended up wit nothin anyways. so tell me u wouldnt take a gamble  if  ur balls were ion a vice like such and tell me u'd work in a area where without a diploma or college degree ur makin under 8/hr now days here if ur lucky. in my town everythin minimum wage. and no way can u save a  flippin farm from foreclosure on that my friend.  
  talk to a financially strapped farmer once see wat he'd tell ya.  
  he was young with the weight of the world on his shoulders at the time and an opportunity arose that could make or break him when if he never took it it  would have  likely broke them anyways.  i think anyone would do the same if in that situation if u had no other feesable doable ways or means otherwise.  he took that opportunity so does that make him a deviant or a greedy  hustler?
  sometimes u gotta do wat ya gotta do if no other means to do so. ya know wat i mean.
  hell, i cant even remember one person who ever bitched at his price or quality.  as matter of fact  he was one the fairest sellers i ever had met as he never smoked so im guessin it never had that greed effect on him  wit it cuz that maybe.   
  but either way u wil have ur opinions i will have mine and everyone else will have theirs. there's so many angles to which u could look at this  in as well too


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

1. Potus what gives the government any right to decide what I can and cannot ingest into my body whether it is cocaine or coca cola.

*The right of an elected government. It's been done this way since the very first government ever existed. If you don't like it, then move to the middle of the Congo or somewhere a government doesn't control every day life. Governments control. It's a fact of life.*

2. Since when is 100% of what it cost you to produce something a fair market price.

*Since I said it. It's called an opinion. It's sure as hell more fair than charging someone the same price for an 1/8th of an ounce of weed what it cost to grow an entire damn pound of it. Get real.*

3. Want to know what it costs to take barrel of oil out of the ground in Fort McMurry? 

*No.*

4. I see no problem with selling weed to put yourself through college. People that grow wheat do the same thing.

*Your opinion. You have a right to it. I don't agree. I also have that right.*

5. Do you honestly believe that if you offered a farmer triple for his wheat crop he would say no? Of course not but the only way that would happen is if something happened to the supply and the world was left short.

*If someone can get an asked price isn't what I'm talking about. Someone who uses guns to support their involvement in selling weed at the highest possible price they can get is a low-life, scum sucking rat with no scruples or morals that should be bent over a tree and butt screwed until they scream like a wounded chipmunk.*

*That's my opinion of course. I don't expect anyone to agree with me unless their opinion matches my own.*

*I don't like street sellers. I never have. I've met a bunch of them and they all, every single one of them, is a low-life who will screw their own mother for a dime and then take more money to sell her.*

*There have been no exceptions. I would risk saying that in the last 40+ years of seeing street sellers, I've more than likely seen more of them than you have. I've seen hundreds of them. Each and every single one of them was exactly what I've described. Greedy, slimy, sneaky, money hungry, low-life, scum who pray on anyone stupid enough to use them or desperate enough to use them or just want some weed bad enough to pay the stupid, selfish, ignorant, greedy, low-life price these Butt-wads demand.*

*Was I clear?*

*hehe, no hard feelings man. It's the way I feel.*


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

clanchattan said:
			
		

> dollars to doughnuts ''Richie" was matriculating with asperation of a b.s. in buisiness admin. i'll give 3:5 odds. now he'll have to persue a ph.d in DUMBASSITY. with a minor in taking it deep while incarcerated. records are not needed for PAY-GO. no cash no dope.
> 
> and another instance of a ignorant person being walked on by a cop. ''Dur..sure you can take a look around, ossifer, you dont need a warrant.''
> 
> ...


 
*one day a game warden was snoopin round on his land beins he herd gunshots thinkin it was poachers, was his story and he stumbled upon his grow. was the  probable cause for warrant*


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## clanchattan (Aug 30, 2008)

possible defense strategy.

"He said Richie agreed he could walk through the house, saying there were no drugs or weapons inside."

- "no your honor, i did not. the officer told me he had probable cause, told me if i co-operated things would be easier for me in the long run."

"Officer Mahaffey said the house had a strong odor of marijuana. He said items he spotted in the house included a .22-caliber rifle, a sawed-off shotgun with a bullet in the chamber and drug paraphernalia."

-"move to strike statement and evidence from the trial due to violation of defendants 4th ammendment rights." and where im from we sleep with unlocked doors and loaded burglar alarms.

"He said he asked to check the basement and Richie first said he did not have a key. Then he agreed to let him in."

- again, strike due to violation of 4th amendment. and probably gained access by placing the suspect under duress.

UNLESS THE COPS HAVE A WARRANT TO SERCH, TELL THEM TO GO GET BENT. DO NOT BEHAVE IN A MANNER THAT WOULD ALLOW THEM TO HAVE PROBABLE CAUSE. DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH PEOPLE WHO MAKE DEATH THREATS. DO NOT FALL FOR THE CO-OPERATION BULL. AND MOST OF ALL, WHEN YOU REALIZE THAT " THIS IS REALLY HAPENING TO ME " DO NOT SPEAK. KEEP YOUR CAKE EATER IN THE CLOSED POSITION AND DO NOT MAKE A L.E.O.' S JOB EASIER BY HELPING HIM/HER DO IT.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

andy52 said:
			
		

> tell you what,i worked my *** off paying my own way thru college.my family was poor also.i'm the only one in my family that finished college.it was rough and sometimes i felt like giving up.but i persevered.my mom and dad were proud of me also.it took many yrs. to pay off my student loans.at the time it never entered my mind to do it any other way.some people look for the easy way out and it bites them in the arse.


 
  wow i swear people do not read  some posts they just skim them and respond however they seem fit.
  i said in my very first post explainin it.  he didnt qualify for student loans nor grants.  thats wat a prior possession charge does to you in our state and wit our government the way its set up. he had a charge  erlier when he was 17 for possession wit intent to sell 2 seperate bags of weed on him was all.  
   did u know that drug charges  practically disbar u from any sort of government assisstance wheather it be student loand welfare foodstampe  etc etc... nor did his family have the credit for a dam loan as the bank was already threatenin to take the farm as they was behind due to his dad havin heart attack and not bein able to push weight round farm any more.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

clanchattan said:
			
		

> possible defense strategy.
> 
> "He said Richie agreed he could walk through the house, saying there were no drugs or weapons inside."
> 
> ...


 
 my bad on this remark.  i assumed u were rollin wit the center highlite along wit everyone else in here speakin of my friend i wrote about below the article. oops


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> potus---- exactly, u been growing a long long time and sold in past etc etc... but there are still some of us who are right where u were before u did ur very first grow...


hehe, my first grow was on the edge of a berry patch in a cow pasture in 1950. NOBODY smoked weed then except blacks and musicians. It just wasn't done yet. I tried it and liked it. A friend gave me a whole jar of seeds and I spread em all over that thicket. They got mowed down by the farmer who owned the land the next year because they were making his cows crazy. They called it "Locoweed" for that reason.

When I went into my first big city, I met the first person who sold weed. He also sold heroin and had a string of whores. He wasn't a nice person.

Neither have any of the people I've met who sell weed since then. Corner any of them and they'll slit your throat for a nickle worth of weed. As I've said, I've never seen an exception and I've met a crap load of em.

Why do they need the guns? Because they are willing to take another humans life over some weed. 

I don't like people like that.

You didn't insult me man. I understand where you're coming from. I've heard the same arguments HUNDREDS of times. I think you're naive. Wait until you see one of these sleazeballs murder someone over a little weed and then come back and discuss it with me. I've already seen it.


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## cuy103 (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> *College Student Paying Way With Marijuana Crop
> [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]posted August 25, 2008[/FONT]
> **
> He said Richie agreed he could walk through the house, saying there were no drugs or weapons inside.*


*

-Why would he agree to let the guy walk around in his house AND claim nothing was there...tsk tsk

*


			
				zipflip said:
			
		

> * He said he asked to check the basement and Richie first said he did not have a key. Then he agreed to let him in.*



*
Why would he agree, AGAIN, to let the guy walk around his GROW ROOM?*


			
				zipflip said:
			
		

> * Officer Mahaffey said Richie told him he would find "a lot of marijuana. You're going to love this. You'll probably get a promotion."*



*
Why would you tell an officer this..."You're going to love this.  You'll probably get a promotion."  Is he nuts???*


			
				zipflip said:
			
		

> * He said Richie also pointed out some opium.
> Richie told where the officer could find $700 in his bedroom.*



*
-Again, why's he telling him all this stuff?  He should have shut his mouth and called a lawyer.*


			
				zipflip said:
			
		

> * Attorney Jerry Summers had a number of questions about the search and whether consent had been given.*



*
-"...whether consent had been given?"  I thought "Richie" agreed to letting him in his house, letting him in his grow room, and telling him about his opium and here his money was?  
*


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> wow i swear people do not read some posts they just skim them and respond however they seem fit.
> i said in my very first post explainin it. he didnt qualify for student loans nor grants....nor did his family have the credit for a dam loan as the bank was already threatenin to take the farm as they was behind due to his dad havin heart attack and not bein able to push weight round farm any more.


Then he could have just waited on further schooling until after he worked a full time job and also worked the farm until it sold.

Because he was in a hurry to go to school doesn't justify becoming another cartel wannabie street scum weed seller. He could have gone to school ten years later.

That means he would have had to sacrifice his own desires for those of someone he loves instead of not caring enough to do so.

Man, you're talking to the wrong person about this. I have real hard feelings about this issue.

No hard feelings man. I've seen a lot of pain come down over weed sales.


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## clanchattan (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> 1. Potus what gives the government any right to decide what I can and cannot ingest into my body whether it is cocaine or coca cola.
> 
> *The right of an elected government. It's been done this way since the very first government ever existed. If you don't like it, then move to the middle of the Congo or somewhere a government doesn't control every day life. Governments control. It's a fact of life.*
> 
> ...


 
1. you dont have to move out of the country. you can vote, lobby, fundraise and support laws you want and laws you dont. the idea of constitutionalisim is that the government is equally responsible to the people as the people are to the government. unjust laws are why america exists in the first place. read the constitution and tell me where it says the government controls the people. this is an equitable society.

2.The gun thing. alot of these articles reference firearms like people aren't allowed to own them. this is bull. iv'e got a right to protect my family, and my property, and there's no law saying i cant have a loaded gun in my house where i live. and if there was id intentionally disobey it. i was raised around guns and my son is being raised around them. they are tools. they put food on my table. like my maul puts wood in the wood stove. and my garden puts canned veggies in the pantry. they are to be respected. i getting a little bit tired of reading quotes by leo's that skew the 2nd amendment. if a leo donsn't want to deal with the fact of an armed citizen, than be a plumber. the article said he had a gun, not that he used it in support of selling weed.


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## cuy103 (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> Why do they need the guns? Because they are willing to take another humans life over some weed.



I think he had them guns for protection.  If he's growning that much weed and selling it all, he's got a lot of cash on hand.  And if there's a lot of traffic going in and out of that house, someone might realize he's growing stuff and try to rob him.  JMO


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

1. you dont have to move out of the country. you can vote, lobby, fundraise and support laws you want and laws you dont. the idea of constitutionalisim is that the government is equally responsible to the people as the people are to the government. unjust laws are why america exists in the first place. read the constitution and tell me where it says the government controls the people. this is an equitable society.

*And, and I want world peace and, and all people to love each other and and....*

*Reality sucks sometimes. Marijuana will be illegal for the next 50+ years. It works that way for those who control the power. Those who control the power, control the laws. Like I said, reality sucks, but I do see it.*

2.The gun thing. alot of these articles reference firearms like people aren't allowed to own them. this is bull....the article said he had a gun, not that he used it in support of selling weed.

*hehe, he was growing a basement full of weed and had a loaded sawed off in his closet......"Honest, Mr. Piggie, it's in case I saw a mouse or a cloth eating moth that might eat my kids jammies...." Uh-huh....SURE....*

*Crack me up. If the dude caught someone trying to steal his crop, he would have murdered them on the spot with that shotgun he had ready to do just that. You're naive if you think not.*


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> Then he could have just waited on further schooling until after he worked a full time job and also worked the farm until it sold.
> 
> Because he was in a hurry to go to school doesn't justify becoming another cartel wannabie street scum weed seller. He could have gone to school ten years later.
> 
> ...


 
i totally agree wit u on the street dealer aspect an such. trust me.. y u think im so die hard bout  growin my own for myself now. im bout fed up wit it as u are. hence everyone has that choice in life to grow or buy  one or the other to smoke. it is a shame but i'm sure  that if we all could be self sufficient and efficient in everythin in this world then walmart and oil companies etc wouldnt be like the street thug dealers of the corporate world. 
  even when it becomes legal people are still gonna have that choice to grow own or just buy it and i guarantee even when legalized there will still be alot higher markup  on it vs growin it urself just as it is now. only the legal risks are  then voided out.  and hello uncle sam taxin the **** out of it and u know why the govt. will do this.... BECUZ THEY CAN
  the only difference between the govt. and our guntoting drug cartellians etc... is our govt. has no one above them, and that they are more influencial and convincing and do things politically even tho politics dont mean a thing. the govt is gonna do wat it wants to do irregardless.   JMO
  watever happened to "we the people..."?  i think over the years that has gone out the window as well as alot of other things in this world as time goes by. 
  sorry for raggin on ya back bout it man.  i do not mean any offense by it, it just that he was a very good frend of mine years ago and he was a good guy wit a good heart and spirit.  just got desperate and probably felt overwhelmed by the financial situation at such a young age and was  taken by it when he saw an opportunity/gamble, and took it.  tho he lost and doin time now. he did manage to save the farm for his sister an mom tho. at the very least when in the time it woulda taken him to do it by workin  he woulda lost it  before long at all.


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## KGB30 (Aug 30, 2008)

USA right to bare arms for pro tection of your self or love ones... Like that guy in texas who shot two guys stealing from his neighbors.lol


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

cuy103 said:
			
		

> I think he had them guns for protection. If he's growning that much weed and selling it all, he's got a lot of cash on hand. And if there's a lot of traffic going in and out of that house, someone might realize he's growing stuff and try to rob him. JMO


EXACTLY.

To protect his weed and it's sales and the profits from those sales, he was willing to take another human beings life.

WRONG WAY TO THINK.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> 1. you dont have to move out of the country. you can vote, lobby, fundraise and support laws you want and laws you dont. the idea of constitutionalisim is that the government is equally responsible to the people as the people are to the government. unjust laws are why america exists in the first place. read the constitution and tell me where it says the government controls the people. this is an equitable society.
> 
> *And, and I want world peace and, and all people to love each other and and....*
> 
> ...


 
no, i  am right long side u there.  the gun thing.
different people hold differnt things at different values, is all i  can see in that.  some would just say screw it take the ****. some would say not over my dead body.  and that  bein me, not sayin i'd kill someone over my grow but  hypothetically it would  absolutely devastate me to where i'd prolly definately hurt someone if they jacked me.  listen to slomo77's story in his thread. he went to work and come home to find his whole harvested an cured stash and left him nthin to smoke.  

jus curious.... how would u react if someone came in ur home to jack u of all u had. and u had a gun in ur closet say a huntin rifle actually for hunting.  u cant tell me u wouldnt at least pull the thing on them for thinkin they could come into ur home an strait jack ya stuff an a'least try scare em.  gotta do wat ya gotta do. this world is shady. and full of shady people


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

clanchattan said:
			
		

> if i caught some one in my house trying to steal anything, my tv,stereo,cash,stash,rash ointment,my hustler or my hamster, that person gets a load of double-aught low brass rubber buckshot in the thighs. and if he dies than he shoulda stayed the hell outta my house.
> 
> as far as seeing reality i guess its easier to see it than do something about it. jaded are we?


 
i'm wit ya on this one clan...


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> i totally agree wit u on the street dealer aspect an such....
> sorry for raggin on ya back bout it man. i do not mean any offense by it, it just that he was a very good frend of mine years ago and he was a good guy wit a good heart and spirit. just got desperate and probably felt overwhelmed by the financial situation at such a young age and was taken by it when he saw an opportunity/gamble, and took it. tho he lost and doin time now. he did manage to save the farm for his sister an mom tho. at the very least when in the time it woulda taken him to do it by workin he woulda lost it before long at all.


I do understand. I took no offence from anything you've said man. I hope you took none from what I've said.

"Desperate times call for desperate measures". That expression has been around a long time.

It doesn't say "Desperate measures are always ok to do if you're desperate".

Think of it this way as well; had someone in that district gotten a bug up their butt over some "new kid" selling weed in their area, they might have come and murdered the entire family over it. I've seen that one as well. More than once.

The farm wouldn't have made much difference then.

Becoming part of the problem isn't the cure for any problem.

Peace to you man. I mean no harm. I'm old, I'm stubborn and quite often I'm an azzhole. There are more than a few people right here on MP that would back that statement up.

All and all, I wish no one harm. I try to live without causing harm to anyone and do the best for me that I can.

Good luck to you and everyone here on MP.

DON'T SELL WEED. GROW YOUR OWN.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> EXACTLY.
> 
> To protect his weed and it's sales and the profits from those sales, he was willing to take another human beings life.
> 
> WRONG WAY TO THINK.


 
but u know wat. i bet whoever would try to break in there obviously is aware of the extremez of his operation and would probably see fit to bring a weapon themselves.  i mean who would be so dumb as to enter a lions den to take his meal from him unarmed man.  and if he comes a toting a gun and u aint got one well guess wat. maybe he'll let u live and just take ya stash or maybe he'll plug one in ya then take ur stash. i say he played his card right given the circumstances really. played it safe. IMO


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

clanchattan said:
			
		

> if i caught some one in my house trying to steal anything, my tv,stereo,cash,stash,rash ointment,my hustler or my hamster, that person gets a load of double-aught low brass rubber buckshot in the thighs. and if he dies than he shoulda stayed the hell outta my house.
> 
> as far as seeing reality i guess its easier to see it than do something about it. jaded are we?


 
You and I see the value of human life differently.

As for doing something about life....you have no idea.


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## clanchattan (Aug 30, 2008)

i read slomo's story and am about to go check up on it. from the beginning of this country we were allowed to keep firearms for a reason. so we could eat, protect ourselves, loved ones, and possesions, and our country from all threats foreign and DOMESTIC.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> I do understand. I took no offence from anything you've said man. I hope you took none from what I've said.
> 
> "Desperate times call for desperate measures". That expression has been around a long time.
> 
> ...


 
*LOL   no way not where I'm from tho not here.  small towns all over this state and farmers etc... its laidf back as far as  big time drug dealers and  guns etc.. like that tho.  maybe just a harrassing telephone call is all ya'd get round here  lol.*

stubbornness comes wit age i say  lol  jus playin tho....
  naw its cool im not offended. i was actually  intrigued by ur debate on all these  points etc...    a'least i kow ur not one who always agree's wit everyone or wats bein said just to fit in like a poser so say.  UR REAL MAN just keep it up
  thanks


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## clanchattan (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> You and I see the value of human life differently.
> 
> As for doing something about life....you have no idea.


 
yeah id, like to retract the whole jaded line. that was a little low.
i dont know you or what you've done or been through. im sorry for that and im goin to edit it out right now. it was uncalled for.


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> jus curious.... how would u react if someone came in ur home to jack u of all u had. and u had a gun in ur closet say a huntin rifle actually for hunting. u cant tell me u wouldnt at least pull the thing on them for thinkin they could come into ur home an strait jack ya stuff an a'least try scare em. gotta do wat ya gotta do. this world is shady. and full of shady people


Regardless of why they did so, if someone threatens my life, I have no intentions of letting anyone end my life prematurely. I sincerely hope it never happens, but if someone breaks into my home with weapons and intent of harm to me, my own survival dictates that I end their life if necessary to preserve my own.

The next evening, the gators would get a nice free meal of azzhole. The police would never be involved.

However, if someone came in and stole my crop, and everything between the walls, if I didn't have to kill them, I sure wouldn't.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

clanchattan said:
			
		

> yeah id, like to retract the whole jaded line. that was a little low.
> i dont know you or what you've done or been through. im sorry for that and im goin to edit it out right now. it was uncalled for.


 
Interesting quote in ur signature (ben franklin)


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

clanchattan said:
			
		

> yeah id, like to retract the whole jaded line. that was a little low.
> i dont know you or what you've done or been through. im sorry for that and im goin to edit it out right now. it was uncalled for.


Thanks man. "Heat of passion" remarks are seldom meant. You're prolly a very nice person! You are a stoner after all!


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## clanchattan (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> Regardless of why they did so, if someone threatens my life, I have no intentions of letting anyone end my life prematurely. I sincerely hope it never happens, but if someone breaks into my home with weapons and intent of harm to me, my own survival dictates that I end their life if necessary to preserve my own.
> 
> The next evening, the gators would get a nice free meal of azzhole. The police would never be involved.
> 
> However, if someone came in and stole my crop, and everything between the walls, if I didn't have to kill them, I sure wouldn't.


 
im personally not going to take the time to ask..........if im there.
if im not there then thats what my homeowners policy is for.

i dig the gator theory, i got 275 acers of mountainside to lose them in.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> Regardless of why they did so, if someone threatens my life, I have no intentions of letting anyone end my life prematurely. I sincerely hope it never happens, but if someone breaks into my home with weapons and intent of harm to me, my own survival dictates that I end their life if necessary to preserve my own.
> 
> The next evening, the gators would get a nice free meal of azzhole. The police would never be involved.
> 
> However, if someone came in and stole my crop, and everything between the walls, if I didn't have to kill them, I sure wouldn't.


 
Well, i'm not talkin killing someone who tries to jack ur stash solely. i'm talkin if say that just in case time when and if someone were to come wit a weapon and throw it at u in a sense... lol  i wouldnt go off rambo on  someone tryin to rob me. i'd try to use my fists the real way a man does it not a ***** way wit a gun but if someone pulls a gun or kniife on me or family u dam rights i'll be too...  but i'm not one for killin someone over somethin material either but if my life or that of my families is threatened then i'd do wat i had to.


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> *LOL no way not where I'm from tho not here. small towns all over this state and farmers etc... its laidf back as far as big time drug dealers and guns etc.. like that tho. maybe just a harrassing telephone call is all ya'd get round here lol.*
> 
> stubbornness comes wit age i say lol jus playin tho....
> naw its cool im not offended. i was actually intrigued by ur debate on all these points etc... a'least i kow ur not one who always agree's wit everyone or wats bein said just to fit in like a poser so say. UR REAL MAN just keep it up
> thanks


I've figured out old from practice. Over my life, I've lived in almost every major city in the US and quite a few in other countries. They are all the same....just different languages spoken. A few weird local characteristics, but pretty much the same.

Power rules. Nothing else much matters in survival. Stay out of the area between opposing powers and you'll live as long as I have.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> Power rules. Nothing else much matters in survival. Stay out of the area between opposing powers and you'll live as long as I have.


 
now if those arent some true words of wisdom i dont know wat are.  makes total sense really....

but really there are no opposing powers in my area honestly.  its more the oil industry thats takin over my state the last year or so. its mad crazy oil boom here lately  thats bout the most power ur gonna find anywhere round here


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

clanchattan said:
			
		

> im personally not going to take the time to ask..........if im there.
> if im not there then thats what my homeowners policy is for.
> 
> i dig the gator theory, i got 275 acers of mountainside to lose them in.


Theory? hehe


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

People out here in the swamp don't need things like garbage disposals and such.

Ever seen a really big gator? I'm talkin about a 12 to 14 footer.

Big, fat, smart and mean.

I have one that likes to come up each night where I scrape off my dinner scraps over the railing.

When I catch a nasty ole gar or find some road kill nearby, I like to bring it to him for a snack.

Cotton-mouths, rattlers, copperheads, coral snakes, scorpions....

See em every day almost.

Not the type of place someone comes to break in....hehe


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> People out here in the swamp don't need things like garbage disposals and such.
> 
> Ever seen a really big gator? I'm talkin about a 12 to 14 footer.
> 
> ...


 
u aint got no dog or cat by chance do ya? or did ya? lol  gator around in back yard an all.... i think that'd be  awesome livin somewhere like such.

we got an occasional mountain lion is bout as ferocious as ya gonna find up here lol


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## Tater (Aug 30, 2008)

Clanchattan thats what I'm trying to say.  Its not fair to paint everyone with a broad brush.  

Potus:  I myself have enough plants in my bedroom because I grow using clones and grow 2 tubs of 8 at a time switching 12/12 as soon as they root.  With my mums included and the other batch of clones I have waiting for those tubs to empty I have enough plants to put me in jail for more than a few years if I was punished to the full extent of Canadian law.  I'm also a hunter and have rifles and amunition around my house because it's almost hunting season.  Now if a cop walked in on that and the article got put through the spin machine how do you think I would come out looking.  Would I to be painted by your dealer stereotype even if I hadn't sold weed and they charged me with intent to traffic simply because I have scales?  Potus the types of dealers you are running into are definetly not the norm here in Canada.  I have never even heard a story from a friend of a friend where violence was involved in the selling of weed.  I worked in the nightclub industry for 6 years and never heard of such a thing.  Maybe its different here.  Most people that sell weed up here are either kids who would rather play video games than work or guys in their 50's who are retired and have nothing better to do.  None of the people I buy from carry guns, they all love their mothers, and they all love weed.  Not of them sell crack or run around gangbanging or whatever it is.  Maybe thats why our opinions differ so much.  You are entitled to your opinion and I mine, its never dull debating (hehe) with you Potus.


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> u aint got no dog or cat by chance do ya? or did ya? lol gator around in back yard an all.... i think that'd be awesome livin somewhere like such.
> 
> we got an occasional mountain lion is bout as ferocious as ya gonna find up here lol


The dogs stay in front. The cats stay inside....

Got to meet a mountain lion up close and personal once. Not something I ever want to do again.

I've got a Hawk here that likes to swoop down and dive bomb me once in awhile. I think she gets a kick out of it. I wear a hat...

It is cool living here. No one messes with me and I have all the fishing and hunting a man could want. Big city only 90 minutes away.


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## Tater (Aug 30, 2008)

Just so you know the post above I totally missed the whole second page of this conversation

lol thats what you get for learning me how to grow pot lol


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

Tater said:
			
		

> Clanchattan thats what I'm trying to say. Its not fair to paint everyone with a broad brush.
> 
> Potus: I myself have enough plants in my bedroom because I grow using clones and grow 2 tubs of 8 at a time switching 12/12 as soon as they root. With my mums included and the other batch of clones I have waiting for those tubs to empty I have enough plants to put me in jail for more than a few years if I was punished to the full extent of Canadian law. I'm also a hunter and have rifles and amunition around my house because it's almost hunting season. Now if a cop walked in on that and the article got put through the spin machine how do you think I would come out looking. Would I to be painted by your dealer stereotype even if I hadn't sold weed and they charged me with intent to traffic simply because I have scales? Potus the types of dealers you are running into are definetly not the norm here in Canada. I have never even heard a story from a friend of a friend where violence was involved in the selling of weed. I worked in the nightclub industry for 6 years and never heard of such a thing. Maybe its different here. Most people that sell weed up here are either kids who would rather play video games than work or guys in their 50's who are retired and have nothing better to do. None of the people I buy from carry guns, they all love their mothers, and they all love weed. Not of them sell crack or run around gangbanging or whatever it is. Maybe thats why our opinions differ so much. You are entitled to your opinion and I mine, its never dull debating (hehe) with you Potus.


 
this bout exactly the same way it is here really too


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> I've got a Hawk here that likes to swoop down and dive bomb me once in awhile. I think she gets a kick out of it. I wear a hat...
> 
> It is cool living here. No one messes with me and I have all the fishing and hunting a man could want. Big city only 90 minutes away.


watch out for them hawks or any big bird of prey like that. i had a cat once that i witnessed bein swooped up by an owl once as a kid. i watched the owl swoop down and all i herd was my cat let out an awful screech like i never herd from a cat before. and it took off wit it.  just like that  jeepers creepers dude in that movie swoopin down and grabbin people.  never saw my cat again after that... i was told they'll eat cats. i didnt think anyone would beleive me when i'd tell them the story


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

Tater said:
			
		

> Clanchattan thats what I'm trying to say. Its not fair to paint everyone with a broad brush.
> 
> Potus: I myself have enough plants in my bedroom because I grow using clones and grow 2 tubs of 8 at a time switching 12/12 as soon as they root. With my mums included and the other batch of clones I have waiting for those tubs to empty I have enough plants to put me in jail for more than a few years if I was punished to the full extent of Canadian law. I'm also a hunter and have rifles and amunition around my house because it's almost hunting season. Now if a cop walked in on that and the article got put through the spin machine how do you think I would come out looking. Would I to be painted by your dealer stereotype even if I hadn't sold weed and they charged me with intent to traffic simply because I have scales? Potus the types of dealers you are running into are definetly not the norm here in Canada. I have never even heard a story from a friend of a friend where violence was involved in the selling of weed. I worked in the nightclub industry for 6 years and never heard of such a thing. Maybe its different here. Most people that sell weed up here are either kids who would rather play video games than work or guys in their 50's who are retired and have nothing better to do. None of the people I buy from carry guns, they all love their mothers, and they all love weed. Not of them sell crack or run around gangbanging or whatever it is. Maybe thats why our opinions differ so much. You are entitled to your opinion and I mine, its never dull debating (hehe) with you Potus.


Having a sawed off shotgun loaded in the closet isn't a "hunting" gun. It's for killing humans. If you think that the billion dollar marijuana industry in your country doesn't support the same guns-death-murder events as it does everywhere else, then I would suggest that you're naive.

You just don't see it because you're not in the act. If you track back any seller, you find a supplier. Track that one back and you find his supplier. Go far enough up that hill and you've found the cartels.

Unless you're on the moon.

Find the cartels and you've found murders, beatings, maiming, bombs, death and low-lifes.

If you're at the bottom of the hill, you support the rest of the ant hill with your efforts.

If you are supplied by a private grower, and that is becoming more and more common, then you've escaped the cartels for now. When the cartels want that distribution area, they'll give that grower one chance to join, leave or die.

That's the way it works everywhere. I've seen it in quite a few countries. I see no reason why yours should be any different.

The private grower exists until the cartel decides to take that area. Then it's over.

It's that power thing man. They got it and they'll keep it as long as they can.

It's because of these types that the governments of each country are so adamant about stopping the drugs including MJ. They aren't battling you and I; they're after the cartel powers. It won't end, ever.

Private growers get busted because the tail is now wagging the dog. The cops have all that power and money. They have to use it now.

We get it just like the cartels get it. If the cops find us, we go down. If they find guns, they see you just like they see the cartels.

That's why I stay SMALL and NEVER sell. One pound at a time. When it's almost gone, I do another.

I got carried away on the last round. I did three crops of different weed for some variety and still have most of it. My friends love it. I just don't have enough friends to give it to.

What a problem.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

dammit y doesnt the U.S.  just strait legalize the weed and make it legal to grow for personal then it would  in due time end all the contributions to the big cartels in the MJ aspect.


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> watch out for them hawks or any big bird of prey like that.


You've got that right! I saw an owl take a rattler once. Big ole 5 footer. It pounded it until it's head was dust and then carried it up to a tree and ate it. I watched it with my binocs until it's tail disappeared down the owls gullet.

My Hawk has been here for years. She knows I won't hurt her. She just loves to dive bomb me. When I shake my fist at her, she lets off a big screech and flies back up into her next in one of my oaks.


----------



## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> dammit y doesnt the U.S. just strait legalize the weed and make it legal to grow for personal then it would in due time end all the contributions to the big cartels in the MJ aspect.


Because if you see a Politician, you don't see the cartel guy feeding the Politician money. If the Politician doesn't take cartel money, the one in the next office does. They feed each other like maggots and there isn't that much difference between them.


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## TrailerTrashed (Aug 30, 2008)

Turning a person who grows and sells marijuana into a criminal is like turning a person who grows and sells apples, oranges, tea leaves, coffee beans, carrots, corn, sugar cane...into criminals. Toiling over soil, preparing it for seed, planting said seed, nurturing it through its life cycle, and then harvesting its fruits. All takes great time and effort, and is work. If after the harvest there is more fruit than needed...why would'nt it be traded or sold? Nobody freaks when the guy who grows corn sells it to "Jack Daniels" to make poison. He is'nt considered a thug. Why is the guy that sells his marijuana?
It is my God givin right to plant seed and harvest its fruit. The fruit is then mine and I am free to do with it as I please. No matter what "Big Pharm" and a buncha sheople think. IMO Much Love.


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

TrailerTrashed said:
			
		

> Turning a person who grows and sells marijuana into a criminal is like turning a person who grows and sells apples, oranges, tea leaves, coffee beans, carrots, corn, sugar cane...into criminals. Toiling over soil, preparing it for seed, planting said seed, nurturing it through its life cycle, and then harvesting its fruits. All takes great time and effort, and is work. If after the harvest there is more fruit than needed...why wouldn't it be traded or sold?


It's a matter of who's doing the buying and selling.

If it's the same guys who buy and sell Heroin, crack and the usual cartel type crap, then it's a nasty bunch of thugs.

It's just not the same as the guys selling or growing corn and the like.

It sounds good, and it's a standard argument, but it's a fantasy.

Big money equals big crime. Big crime equals cartels when it's drugs.

Cartels equal guns-death-murder.

Nasty thing it is.

Grow your own. Stay out of the business of selling weed.

You'll live to be as old as dirt like I have.


----------



## TrailerTrashed (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> It's a matter of who's doing the buying and selling.
> 
> If it's the same guys who buy and sell Heroin, crack and the usual cartel type crap, then it's a nasty bunch of thugs.
> 
> ...


 



Sorry I disagree. You should look into who these so called "cartels" really are. My friend your government is the only cartel. You have been tricked into thinking otherwise it seems. Any time a private grower takes money away from these thugs, the grower helps the cause... not hurts. IMO Much Love.


----------



## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

TrailerTrashed said:
			
		

> Sorry I disagree. You should look into who these so called "cartels" really are. My friend your government is the only cartel. You have been tricked into thinking otherwise it seems. Any time a private grower takes money away from these thugs, the grower helps the cause... not hurts. IMO Much Love.


 
i feel the same way of our GOVT. as well.   its as tho they're an Anarchy of their own. which technically they are. lol
  its just that they have the good majority of society backing it up and  are very well organized as most cartels are too. 
  just cuz some guy wants to trade some his harvest or watever does not make him one them people right up there along side the gun toting cartel members JMO


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

TrailerTrashed said:
			
		

> Sorry I disagree. You should look into who these so called "cartels" really are. My friend your government is the only cartel. You have been tricked into thinking otherwise it seems. Any time a private grower takes money away from these thugs, the grower helps the cause... not hurts. IMO Much Love.


Ok, I'll grab the bait...

Are you saying that there is no such thing as a drug cartel in any other country?

I'll mention only the largest; Columbia, Mexico, Russia and almost the entire mid-east.

Are these fictions?

If this is what you're saying, then I'm sorry but I don't believe you.

No one would say that these cartels don't exist or that ANY country is more of a drug cartel than any of these.

Please explain.

I'm on my way out for awhile, but I'll be back on in a few hours.

Peace.


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## trillions of atoms (Aug 30, 2008)

"Sorry man, that's bull. He did it because it was easy money. He didn't care that he was joining the ranks of the Drug Cartels by ripping people off with stupid high prices for each oz of weed he sold."


did you buy weed off of him? how did you know he was making "crazy money" dood had 700 bux in his bedroom ....WOW 


thou shall not judge less thou be judged....i say ive grown weed...and i own guns. just because i have had both doesnt make me a cartel. 


im just playing devils advocate. i say hes stupid for telling someone hes gunna kill them and letting the cops in knowing that he has a setup. not calling him an ******* because he sells weed at "crazy prices" and runs a "drug cartel". 

edit- point blank the dude fked up its his fault....no bones about it. 

what comes around goes around


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

this whole debate the last couple pages  was  mostly about the part i spoke of in reference to the news article i found. i havent been defending the guy in the article but my friend i spoke of below  in my comments  just under the  article  in the very first post.  its reall back an forth. i guess thats wat i get for  mixing a real life happening in the same post as a news article.... lol
  i'll jst let u al have at her  from here lol... its wore me out already.  opinionated debates can be fun but also   they drag on an on an on an on... lol


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## TrailerTrashed (Aug 30, 2008)

Who profits from marijuana being illegal in this country? I'm not saying these cartels don't exist. I'm simply saying they are allowed to exist and are a cover for the same dudes who own Coke and Ford, Texaco and Mobil, Phizer and Wyeth...( You know the guys that run this country.) Are you saying that these "cartels" are functioning business as usual because the government can't stop them? Right now our borders are so tight you cant get a pot seed across, but commercial illegal drug sales have done nothing but grown. How come? I'll tell ya why. Because the "powers that be"(same dudes as above) are letting it in. Heroin should have almost disapeared after Afghanistan..has it? And who's really making all the profit? So instead of saying "cartel" why not just say Bush/Cheney ? Drug dealers with suits.(The worst kind.) Again I will say the only cartel is your government. IMO Much Love.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

TrailerTrashed said:
			
		

> Who profits from marijuana being illegal in this country? I'm not saying these cartels don't exist. I'm simply saying they are allowed to exist and are a cover for the same dudes who own Coke and Ford, Texaco and Mobil, Phizer and Wyeth...( You know the guys that run this country.) Are you saying that these "cartels" are functioning business as usual because the government can't stop them? Right now our borders are so tight you cant get a pot seed across, but commercial illegal drug sales have done nothing but grown. How come? I'll tell ya why. Because the "powers that be"(same dudes as above) are letting it in. Heroin should have almost disapeared after Afghanistan..has it? And who's really making all the profit? So instead of saying "cartel" why not just say Bush/Cheney ? Drug dealers with suits.(The worst kind.) Again I will say the only cartel is your government. IMO Much Love.


 
:yeahthat:  true that...  and i said i was gonna step away from this  lol....


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## greenmehtV12 (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> potus---- exactly, u been growing a long long time and sold in past etc etc... but there are still some of us who are right where u were before u did ur very first grow along wit others etc. u've grown accustomed to having a constant supply and not having to deal wit dealers and prices to buy it etc,
> yeah if i became a novice to growing over the years which i'm sure u have become urself. 300 bones for a whole elbow is pretty damn good in my mind especially for some nice prime cured nuggs. yeah if i was in ur boat and had an endless supply and never had to relly worry bout finding smoke or how to get it etc yada yada then yeah i'd say hell wit it and to all my frenz>>>one for you, one for you , one for you and one for you and so on for no charge as well. but not everyone in this world is as fortunate or in any similar position as u to where an eith is nothin really.
> maybe someday i will be tho. that is my goal and my whole reason for learnin to grow my own and be good at it so i too one day can be self sufficient and generous with wat i have.
> but u dont realize how things are i dont think. actually i think it more the location and the numbers of supply and demand like tater said. (diddo)
> ...


 

I agree. Around here not everyone who smokes would grow. Good buds are hard to find, and so is money. Real smokers always have understood that it takes alot less money to produce an 8th than it costs, well i shouldnt say real smokers just those who have grown. But its not like thats gonna stop someone from getting an 8th cuz where else would they get it? Poeple who do grow good keep it between them and themselves too, Idk if sharing buds with friends will bring the price of it down.  all we can do is share the power of growing with others. its always been free if you grow it!


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

TrailerTrashed said:
			
		

> Who profits from marijuana being illegal in this country? I'm not saying these cartels don't exist. I'm simply saying they are allowed to exist and are a cover for the same dudes who own Coke and Ford, Texaco and Mobil, Phizer and Wyeth...( You know the guys that run this country.) Are you saying that these "cartels" are functioning business as usual because the government can't stop them? Right now our borders are so tight you cant get a pot seed across, but commercial illegal drug sales have done nothing but grown. How come? I'll tell ya why. Because the "powers that be"(same dudes as above) are letting it in. Heroin should have almost disapeared after Afghanistan..has it? And who's really making all the profit? So instead of saying "cartel" why not just say Bush/Cheney ? Drug dealers with suits.(The worst kind.) Again I will say the only cartel is your government. IMO Much Love.


Sorry man, that's a fantasy. Yes, the cartels exist. Yes they bring hundreds of tons of dope across the border, no the US Government doesn't help them. You haven't a shred of evidence that what you've said is true. You're saying it because it's a popular baloney rumor among those who like to say such bull, but again, you haven't a shred of evidence that what you're saying is fact. What a crock. The borders aren't tight. They never have been and they sure as hell aren't now. Where in the hell are you getting that baloney from? If you're just going to make crap up, then just be quiet. What you've said is nonsense.

If you think it's true, then provide some sort of proof from a source of some kind other than a tabloid.

More Bush bashing crap won't fill the gaps. The cartels exist because they are HUGE armies of guerrilla growers and runners. The whole thing is covered by an army of guns and murders. Please, research the topic before spilling that nonsense again. Politicians are involved, yes. At lower levels. The ones at the top can't be involved. Have you any idea how closely the top government officials are watched by everyone? Hell man, they can't even get a piece of butt without half the world knowing it the next day. Running Cartels? Shear nonsense. Give me a break. Heroin is produced in twenty different countries. A-ghan slows, it just gets filled in by someone else.


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

zipflip said:
			
		

> :yeahthat: true that... and i said i was gonna step away from this lol....


No, it's not true. Not a single word of it. It's baloney that is passed around the Internet by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about. You might as well say that  bosco the clown produces the H in the world. It has just as much fact backing it up. You can SAY anything, but showing evidence of what you're saying is much more difficult. Car makers responsible for drugs....GIVE ME A BREAK. Total, nonsense.


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## TrailerTrashed (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> Sorry man, that's a fantasy. Yes, the cartels exist. Yes they bring hundreds of tons of dope across the border, no the US Government doesn't help them. You haven't a shred of evidence that what you've said is true. You're saying it because it's a popular baloney rumor among those who like to say such bull, but again, you haven't a shred of evidence that what you're saying is fact. What a crock. The borders aren't tight. They never have been and they sure as hell aren't now. Where in the hell are you getting that baloney from? If you're just going to make crap up, then just be quiet. What you've said is nonsense.
> 
> If you think it's true, then provide some sort of proof from a source of some kind other than a tabloid.
> 
> More Bush bashing crap won't fill the gaps. The cartels exist because they are HUGE armies of guerrilla growers and runners. The whole thing is covered by an army of guns and murders. Please, research the topic before spilling that nonsense again. Politicians are involved, yes. At lower levels. The ones at the top can't be involved. Have you any idea how closely the top government officials are watched by everyone? Hell man, they can't even get a piece of butt without half the world knowing it the next day. Running Cartels? Shear nonsense. Give me a break. Heroin is produced in twenty different countries. A-ghan slows, it just gets filled in by someone else.


 

You my friend obviously are the knower of all things...Open your eyes and your mind. There is the proof you ask for but never really seek. IMO (I always put that cause they are my opinions and not always facts.)  Much Love


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> No, it's not true. Not a single word of it. It's baloney that is passed around the Internet by people who haven't a clue what they're talking about. You might as well say that bosco the clown produces the H in the world. It has just as much fact backing it up. You can SAY anything, but showing evidence of what you're saying is much more difficult. Car makers responsible for drugs....GIVE ME A BREAK. Total, nonsense.


 
i was making reference to car dealers and sales man in comparison to  rippin people off but we still seem to always go to them  "becuz where else we go for a car" and we accept it.  in accordance to the exact topic at hand when i made reference to car dealers was wat i was talkin bout. and how they distrusting crooks tryin to rip people off all the time.  

 tell me people how many times u herd the line from a car sal;es man "  she gots high miles but they're all highway miles and that an elderly couple owned it before"...  my friken own brother is a car sales man and let me tell u wat he works for the most reputable dealership in the city he lives in and man are them guys crooks and liars and cheats tryin to talk anythin up just to make a sale.  
  im referin to the comment u made bout someone talkin how his weed is bomb *** stuff and makin it all glam to make more money off it....
  it had really nothin to do wit MJ directly.


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## King Bud (Aug 30, 2008)

To me, the system of our world (the behind-the-curtains people with all the power, the double face of law and media, the masses of sterile-minded predictable consumers) is still very _strange_. It's always a great pleasure here to glimpse everyone's world view.


Being young, the only laws that govern me are my values, which are still soft and evolving.


I can understand why we would look down on murderers, and thieves, and greedy business people.. but where is the line after which we lose respect for the dealers? Or has every dealer already crossed it, by using marijuana to make money? 




> Because he was in a hurry to go to school doesn't justify becoming another cartel wannabie street scum weed seller. He could have gone to school ten years later.



He could have.. but he didn't.. that says a lot about his character. Some people wait to take, while others create.


Forget for a moment that this guy might be a lowlife videogame junkie idiot who doesn't value his customers or the life around him..

And know that I understand there are other options.. loans, and crappy jobs.. 

If he used the opportunity as a stepping stone to a greater life, working non-violently, not ripping anyone off, not becoming overly greedy.. why look down on him? 

I wouldn't. :watchplant: 

I think there is a point where that stress (of a loan, of work) overweighs the stress of dealing.. so long as you're comfortable with the morality behind all of it.


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## POTUS (Aug 30, 2008)

TrailerTrashed said:
			
		

> You my friend obviously are the knower of all things...Open your eyes and your mind. There is the proof you ask for but never really seek. IMO (I always put that cause they are my opinions and not always facts.) Much Love


No, your wiseass comment isn't on target. I don't pretend to know all things, but I sure don't talk nonsense either. Yes, there is a few thousand sources for what I'm saying. No, there isn't ANY sources for what you're saying. Please, if you want to make it sound as if I'm incorrect, then show me ONE real piece of evidence that the major car makers are responsible for the drug cartels being able to operate.

My eyes are fully open. That's why I can see baloney when it's presented to me. My mind is also very much open. It's the reason I can tell halfassed crap from real argument.

Show me any evidence of your fantasy being true and not just a case of imagination.

Keep the wiseass remarks to yourself. They don't impress anyone.

Peace.


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## zipflip (Aug 30, 2008)

i never said the car dealers are responsible for the dam cartel man lol.. sorry but like i said above. i was making a comparison  showing u an askin wats the difference in when it came to ur comment bout the thug tryin to overcharge some weed he got cheap  and liein bout it just to decieve someone into payin more than it really worth...   
 point of it is carsalesman and their dealerships live by the same code of ethics if not worse than some the dealers i've actually met known know and probly  will know in future quite possibly.
  all our governmoent and corporate world does is monopolizes the economy in ways  and todays society is so either misinformed or just lack the knowledge and facts of such thus leading the big honcho's into thinkin they got the world by the balls and  feed off all of us.  really no difference in principal except for the cartel contribution part.


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## TrailerTrashed (Aug 30, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> No, your wiseass comment isn't on target. I don't pretend to know all things, but I sure don't talk nonsense either. Yes, there is a few thousand sources for what I'm saying. No, there isn't ANY sources for what you're saying. Please, if you want to make it sound as if I'm incorrect, then show me ONE real piece of evidence that the major car makers are responsible for the drug cartels being able to operate.
> 
> My eyes are fully open. That's why I can see baloney when it's presented to me. My mind is also very much open. It's the reason I can tell halfassed crap from real argument.
> 
> ...


 

I dont think you understand. I have nothing to prove to you. I stand by all that I said. They are my opinions and I am not trying to talk anybody else into them. If you dont like them...cool. Yours I find very interesting but I still know your really the one whos full of sheople sh*t. Take it with a grain of salt. Or dont. My wise *** comments will flow. IMO Much Love.


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## Hick (Aug 30, 2008)

TrailerTrashed said:
			
		

> My wise *** comments will flow. IMO Much Love.


...or they won't.. 
  it's been a spirited discussion.. but we won't tolerate name calling or insults....
  As is often the case, when asked to present "facts" to substantiate their 'arguement', it resorts to insults and name calling, rather than any evidence.


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