# some problems, please help. *PICTURES*



## loolagigi (Jul 27, 2009)

ok guys and gals. i have a journal on these plants but havnt been able to get the advice i need. i even posted in problems section, and its hard because some people are using soil, so the advice may be non benificial. i gatta try here. i am in a cabinet with temps at 77 humidity 50. using lots of cfl's. using flora nova grow for nutes. ppm has been about 400-500.  ph 5.6-5.9.  they are in cubes on top of rockwool. i "dip" my plants in solution when it seems fit. i just "LEACHED" by pouring phed water over cubes hoping to clean whatever is hurting them out. maybe i am missing something. can anyone help? 2 plants are almost 4 weeks old and topped, the others are not topped and are almost 3 weeks old.


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## UKgirl420 (Jul 27, 2009)

if its not nute burn maybe a k or mag  defincency ,,,eace:


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## loolagigi (Jul 27, 2009)

UKgirl420 said:
			
		

> if its not nute burn maybe a k or mag defincency ,,,eace:


thanks uk, k is potash right?  and when you say deficiency, you meen it lacks it or there is too much?  whatever it is i need suggestions on what to do to fix it.  anythong.


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## loolagigi (Jul 27, 2009)

i calibrated my pens, so i think it might be over watering and something else, maybe a few things.


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## 420grower (Jul 27, 2009)

You my friend are overwatering,I may be wrong but if you could take some pics of the roots I could give you a positive answer,by dipping your girls you create a slight vacumn that starves your roots of oxygen so badly needed,are your roots in your res.?what are the temps in your res.,your plants appear to be waterlogged,nova nutes are great and it takes a heavy dose to burn,even in hydro,I say let them dry to a close wilt and feed from the top thru the plants roots,don't give up,there are great growers on this site,we will get you back on track


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## dr pyro (Jul 27, 2009)

i think you need either mag or cal or possibly both treat for one if not that go to other


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## loolagigi (Jul 27, 2009)

420grower said:
			
		

> You my friend are overwatering,I may be wrong but if you could take some pics of the roots I could give you a positive answer,by dipping your girls you create a slight vacumn that starves your roots of oxygen so badly needed,are your roots in your res.?what are the temps in your res.,your plants appear to be waterlogged,nova nutes are great and it takes a heavy dose to burn,even in hydro,I say let them dry to a close wilt and feed from the top thru the plants roots,don't give up,there are great growers on this site,we will get you back on track


thanks 420. i will post pics of roots tonight. the plants are not in a res.  they sit out in pots with holes in the bottom. inside the pot is hydrton that the rockwool cube sits on.  what really sucks is, since this is my first hydro, when my plants started showing probs, i kept changing and adding solution which has caused the overwatering, and im sure more problems.  how come people with dwc, and ebb and flow can water their plants several times a day if not all day, and not be over watered?  i am using hydro, should i treat my rockwool like soil and let dry out some before "dipping"  in solution?  should i use nutes everytime, or maybe every other like i did with soil. it seems like i will be ok, but i know where hermies come from. thanks for the glimpse of hope. roots look skinny and yellowish.


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## DirtySouth (Jul 27, 2009)

420grower said:
			
		

> You my friend are overwatering,I may be wrong but if you could take some pics of the roots I could give you a positive answer,by dipping your girls you create a slight vacumn that starves your roots of oxygen so badly needed,are your roots in your res.?what are the temps in your res.,your plants appear to be waterlogged,nova nutes are great and it takes a heavy dose to burn,even in hydro,I say let them dry to a close wilt and feed from the top thru the plants roots,don't give up,there are great growers on this site,we will get you back on track


 


Hold on man,its the EXACT affect of ebb-n-flo.Water log will cause root rot not dippin your plant.As you remove excess water is removed via gravity,as the water leaves the air enters.Like a vacume effect.


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## loolagigi (Jul 27, 2009)

dr pyro said:
			
		

> i think you need either mag or cal or possibly both treat for one if not that go to other


thanks, how do you treat for that, never really came across this problem b4.


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## loolagigi (Jul 27, 2009)

DirtySouth said:
			
		

> Hold on man,its the EXACT affect of ebb-n-flo.Water log will cause root rot not dippin your plant.As you remove excess water is removed via gravity,as the water leaves the air enters.Like a vacume effect.


damn dirty i wish mine looked like that. i think im loving them too much with dipping them everyday. im doin something wrong fo sho.


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## DirtySouth (Jul 27, 2009)

Only he has no way of squeezing excess water from wool,which is key if you want to water w/ the intensity he wants to.By jumpin 150-200 ppm aday,eachday for a week,watering 1x a day(mostlikely still soggy from day b-4)


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## loolagigi (Jul 27, 2009)

DirtySouth said:
			
		

> Only he has no way of squeezing excess water from wool,which is key if you want to water w/ the intensity he wants to.By jumpin 150-200 ppm aday,eachday for a week,watering 1x a day(mostlikely still soggy from day b-4)


the way im thinkin is i need to water everyother if not every three days for now, but id i do that....as water evaporates, ppm, and ph probably rise.....so should i run around 300-400 ppm so it can increase during the "dry out" time?


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## DirtySouth (Jul 27, 2009)

You can puchase cal/mag if you want.Also you could add 150 ppm of tap to correct cal/mag def.If thats what your thinkin.


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## dirtyolsouth (Jul 28, 2009)

Hey Loola...  ds...

How goes it? 

Is it possible to 'over water' in hydro?  Years ago I used a constant drip hydro system with hydroton buckets and a controller reservoir without over watering issues.  I never did care for rockwool but I thought one of the best qualities about it is that you really can't over water it as any excess drains away and the rockwool is only capable of holding the right amount.  That's why I always liked it for starting seedlings...   

I think the theories about nute lock out from the salts they had built up is likely.  Maybe go with plain water for a few days and then really low ppm with nutes until they look happy.  A few days of water might be helpful to really let the plant tissue flush out any stored up nutes.  Cal/Mag may help too but you probably won't see if the problems are corrected until you see new growth.  

I hope things take a turn for the better soon.  MJ is such a resilient plant and your roots are nice so hang in there...

Peace!


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## DirtySouth (Jul 28, 2009)

agreed 100%, only loolagigi was jumpin ppm's tooooo quick.I stay in wool my entire veg and have noticed WAY HEALTHIER roots when I kinda "squeeze" the xcess fluid from the wool.This helps ensure roots are nice-n-fat-white.His nute to root ratio was advancing way to fast IMHO.
 Then once in flower drop ppms like 300-400 ppms and w/ in the next few weeks following the flip is when I start to see mag. def?Only he's still veggin, I NEVER exp. this so early on in growth
 His are droopy(old growth,new looks perky,also a healthier lookin green IMHO)which is from excessive water round the roots,kinda starvin them of air,or so I believe.What do you think,dirtyolsouth?I warned from the start about nute burn and only advancing 100 ppm's every 4-6 days,esp. since this is unknow "bagseed"


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## DirtySouth (Jul 28, 2009)

Being in wool for a bit its my belief that soggy rockwool can/will cause complications. After more error in trial,lol it has been more effective to water by weight, in my case.


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## dirtyolsouth (Jul 28, 2009)

Yup ds... 

I would think that since the cubes are in hydroton pebbles that they should be draining very well.  I think most users of rockwool cycle their feeding and saturate the rockwool and when the feed cycle is over and then it drains off any excess and over time the rockwool slowly dries.  But to eliminate over watering from the possiblities maybe just hold off for a day and then water for one feed a day for a few days.  They are relatively small so the rockwool shouldn't dry out too much in one day.  When there are signs of new healthy growth start again with very low ppm nutes...  1/3 or 1/2 strength.  

The good news is that it's not too late to stop over feeding!  They're still kicking and only need to be flushed out and given a new lease on life...  They should snap out of it soon Loola cuz with hydro things can get well when things are right almost as fast as they can go south when they're wrong...   

Good Luck!


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## DirtySouth (Jul 28, 2009)

This is what I tell him, he thinks ist gonna fix what is already done,as he's new.I had him flush and cut in 1/2 as he was over 1000 ppm,which is not unheard of only he jumped at a high rate quickly.I hope hearing from others will reasure him.
To me, dirtyolsouth, it looks as his new topped growth is perkier with a healthier green hue to it.Light and cameras do minipulate much altho.I warned him when he started advancing quickly,and again when the leaves showed what I was worried about.Can't MAKE him, ya know.
 He did flush for a couple waterings and dropped ppm to 490ish. I advised him to hold steady and watch New growth. Some talk bout def. has him worried I'm sure.


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## dirtyolsouth (Jul 28, 2009)

DirtySouth said:
			
		

> This is what I tell him, he thinks ist gonna fix what is already done,as he's new.I had him flush and cut in 1/2 as he was over 1000 ppm,which is not unheard of only he jumped at a high rate quickly.I hope hearing from others will reasure him.
> To me, dirtyolsouth, it looks as his new topped growth is perkier with a healthier green hue to it.Light and cameras do minipulate much altho.I warned him when he started advancing quickly,and again when the leaves showed what I was worried about.Can't MAKE him, ya know.
> He did flush for a couple waterings and dropped ppm to 490ish. I advised him to hold steady and watch New growth. Some talk bout def. has him worried I'm sure.



It maybe better at this point to go with a paint by the #'s approach than a wait til you see burn method.  I know when I was new to all this that's what I needed as I didn't have a feel for intuitively knowing what to do.  These are seedlings, right?  They won't have the vitality a clone would of that size and should be fed much less Loola.  I think if you start with water once a day for a few days and then back WAY off on the nutes when you do resume feeding they should take off soon.  Keep the ppms low for a while and see how little you can feed them and keep them happy instead of how much you can push them as that's not working right now.  I'm growing organic in soil but for reference my max tds last bloom was 1000ppm with 40" plants with large canopies and I still had some nute burn issues.  When I grew hydroponically I did push 1400-1600 at peak feeds during week 4 but with clones I would out at 200 ppm for at least a week and s-l-o-w-l-y increased it from there.  I'd use the FloraNova feed schedule as a starting point when you're dealing with clones but go easier with seedlings and see what happens.  It just might amaze you!

Once you start to get more of a feel then play with nute strength and pushing them but it's better to be patient at this point as it's very easy to kill them with kindness!

We're all pulling for your plants...    chin UP!

Peace!


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## loolagigi (Jul 28, 2009)

DirtySouth said:
			
		

> This is what I tell him, he thinks ist gonna fix what is already done,as he's new.I had him flush and cut in 1/2 as he was over 1000 ppm,which is not unheard of only he jumped at a high rate quickly.I hope hearing from others will reasure him.
> To me, dirtyolsouth, it looks as his new topped growth is perkier with a healthier green hue to it.Light and cameras do minipulate much altho.I warned him when he started advancing quickly,and again when the leaves showed what I was worried about.Can't MAKE him, ya know.
> He did flush for a couple waterings and dropped ppm to 490ish. I advised him to hold steady and watch New growth. Some talk bout def. has him worried I'm sure.


thanks everyone for there responses....right now i am giving just phed water, and letting them dry out in between. when they need thier next watering i will feed with only 350 ppm.  dirty, the most i have fed them was 600, not 1000. i have braught that numberdown since signs of burn. i see newer green growth on top, but still not the look i am going for. tonight i wont touch them. tomm, if they feel light by weight, i will go with 350 ppm.


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## DirtySouth (Jul 28, 2009)

my bad.


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## dirtyolsouth (Jul 28, 2009)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> thanks everyone for there responses....right now i am giving just phed water, and letting them dry out in between. when they need thier next watering i will feed with only 350 ppm.  dirty, the most i have fed them was 600, not 1000. i have braught that numberdown since signs of burn. i see newer green growth on top, but still not the look i am going for. tonight i wont touch them. tomm, if they feel light by weight, i will go with 350 ppm.



350ppm is fairly mild but why are you wanting to feed them again already when they are still trying pulling out of the funk?    :confused2:   imho they don't need any more nutes right now.  Check them a couple of times a day and try to ignore them the rest of the time.


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## Super Silver Haze (Jul 29, 2009)

loolagigi, what size grodan blocks are you using?

i used 4 " (too big) and i onlywatered them every 3 days or so.  i did squeeze out theexcess water from the blocks the first watering and they didnt like it at all, they wilted and looked far worse than after they were cloned.  to wick excess h2o out of the Grodan i would sit it on a dry block of grodan and this worked fine.  i would water by weight.


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## DirtySouth (Jul 29, 2009)

How do you figure 4" wool is "too big" ? I love it. Less watering!


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## loolagigi (Jul 29, 2009)

heres an update......2 days ago i flushed. i let them sit for 2 days with nothing, this morning i noticed lots of droopyness and decided when i got home i would feed. i ganna use 400 or just under for ppm. at 5.7 ph. here are pics of right now, and i will post new pics in a few hours.  I HAVE NOT DIPPED YET, SOLUTION IS GETTING BUBBLES.....LET ME KNOW WHAT TO DO IF YOU ARGUE WITH ME DIPPING.  CONTAINER ARE LIGHT WEIGHT.


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## loolagigi (Jul 29, 2009)

ok well its been an hour or so. the pots were so light that some felt empty. i dipped at 356 ppm, and 5.7 ph.  after i dipped all plants i checked ppm and ph, ppm barely rose, and ph only went up to 6.  heres some pics immediatly after dip to compare with pics later.  new growth seems green, but droopy. i pulled the bigger ones away from the light a little to see if they will perk up for light. maybe i should go 18/6 so theres a dark period. not sure yet.


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## loolagigi (Jul 29, 2009)

acually what running through my head is flower these guys and go back to dirt, but thats just a "thought"


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## DirtySouth (Jul 29, 2009)

drop em in the dirt!


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## loolagigi (Jul 29, 2009)

DirtySouth said:
			
		

> drop em in the dirt!


hydroton and all?  after i drop them in should i just give them a good water?


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## DirtySouth (Jul 29, 2009)

??


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## loolagigi (Jul 29, 2009)

n/m


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## loolagigi (Jul 29, 2009)

im throwin the towel in this one, if they die its ok. i learned a lot. ill give emm another week, if it keeps going this way ill have to pull out the firing team.  thanks for everyones help.


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## Super Silver Haze (Jul 29, 2009)

DirtySouth said:
			
		

> How do you figure 4" wool is "too big" ? I love it. Less watering!


 
they were too big for me.  it took to long for roots to emerge from the 4", but you are right less watering.

it was my first attempt at cloning and all 3 are doing good but ill use smaller Grodan Blocks next time.

loolagigi, dont kill them.  grow them out, learn whats wrong and you will be better off next time.  why dont you transplant them into soil?


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## mr.greengenes (Jul 29, 2009)

Why don't you convert your hydroponic system to bubbleponics. Stick them in a reservoir with an airstone and an air pump and nutes. My 3 Super Lemon Haze were put into a Stealth Hydro bubbleponics system on July 1 and are a foot tall and very healthy. Change the water every 10 days and add water as needed. Don't throw in the towel yet. See if they'll respond to this method. This is my first hydro grow so it could well be that I don't know what I'm talking about.


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## loolagigi (Jul 30, 2009)

Super Silver Haze said:
			
		

> they were too big for me. it took to long for roots to emerge from the 4", but you are right less watering.
> 
> it was my first attempt at cloning and all 3 are doing good but ill use smaller Grodan Blocks next time.
> 
> loolagigi, dont kill them. grow them out, learn whats wrong and you will be better off next time. why dont you transplant them into soil?


HOW?


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## loolagigi (Jul 30, 2009)

aplaisia said:
			
		

> Loolagigi.... Why are you putting your pH at 5.7? Typically every plant in hydroponics will need a pH between 6 and 6.5!!!!!!!!!!
> 
> Change your pH and don't worry about your ppm too much. C. Sativa can stand pretty high ppm. Even as young as yours.
> 
> ...


ILL TRY IT, CANT HURT ANY.


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## loolagigi (Jul 30, 2009)

mr.greengenes said:
			
		

> Why don't you convert your hydroponic system to bubbleponics. Stick them in a reservoir with an airstone and an air pump and nutes. My 3 Super Lemon Haze were put into a Stealth Hydro bubbleponics system on July 1 and are a foot tall and very healthy. Change the water every 10 days and add water as needed. Don't throw in the towel yet. See if they'll respond to this method. This is my first hydro grow so it could well be that I don't know what I'm talking about.


started off with dwc;;;;;;i failed.


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## DirtySouth (Jul 30, 2009)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> started off with dwc;;;;;;i failed.


 


get your water checked, brother this works wonders 4 me.I have no clue what went wrong? Hows the new growth lookin? Lower growth gettin worse?


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## loolagigi (Jul 30, 2009)

DirtySouth said:
			
		

> get your water checked, brother this works wonders 4 me.I have no clue what went wrong? Hows the new growth lookin? Lower growth gettin worse?


not sure....


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## loolagigi (Jul 30, 2009)

should i cut off the bad leavs?


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## loolagigi (Jul 31, 2009)

Bump


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## JBonez (Aug 1, 2009)

ok, first off, you say cubes, are they in cubes covered in a layer of clay aggregate(hydroton)???

If they are in rockwool cubes then buddy listen up good, unless the roots are protruding from the rockwool, then you are definately overwatering.

rockwool is usually a once a day thing, maybe more but in just cubes with slabs, once a day is the most they can take

Side note, Floranova is great, but the FN Grow isnt need, Just the FN Bloom.

Use the bloom for the entire cycle (from veg to bloom). It contains enough NPK in a very harmonic ratio for veg and bloom.

For seedlings, i use FN Bloom in mini rockwool cube seed/clone starters.

For cuttings, give em about a 3-500 ppm solution, watch for burn, its easy to spot while causing almost know damage to the leaves. Just back off if so.


Take it or leave it, it works perfectly for me and this is my first hydro grow.

here is a pic of my little flowering tent, notice how healthy they are!

After seeds sprout and a week or so has gone by and the rockwool has dried out, for their first watering, give em 100ppm or close to it of bloom.

Each few days, add nutrient and slowly bring it up to a max of 600ppm untile you are ready to flower.

Now, After a week in bloom, you are gonna have to trust me on this, but raise the ppm's to 1400, yeah yeah, i know it seems high.

if you see burn, guess what, drain a little res solution and add pure water, you prob wont even have to alter the ph unless you addback nutrient.

thats whats so great about ebb&flow, problems are neutralized within a res swap, speaks for itself.

Now, depending on your meter, you have two conversion rates, either a .5 or a .7 conversion.

.7 conversion=1400ppm target
.5 conversion=about 950 ballpark tarket

bluelab truncheons are the bomb, its what i use and its very accurate with no calibration, about 160 with the cleaning kit, but worth the money!

so find out what meter you have and the conversion rate it displays ppms in.

here is the lucas formula, with ro water doing exactly as he said it would, and my plants are THRIVING.
This is my small flowering tent, you can see my big one in my sig.

Google ask Lucas, and read until you bleed. my success is based exactly of his recommendations for growing.


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## loolagigi (Aug 1, 2009)

Super Silver Haze said:
			
		

> they were too big for me. it took to long for roots to emerge from the 4", but you are right less watering.
> 
> it was my first attempt at cloning and all 3 are doing good but ill use smaller Grodan Blocks next time.
> 
> loolagigi, dont kill them. grow them out, learn whats wrong and you will be better off next time. why dont you transplant them into soil?


just transplant cubes and hydroton in a pot with soil?  is that ok?


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## loolagigi (Aug 1, 2009)

i cut off bad leafs, i know your not supposed to but i need new growth. just fed after these pics, will post update tonight  thanks for the support.


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## loolagigi (Aug 1, 2009)

OK, I HIT EM HARD.....NOW WHAT?  LET THEM SIT?  OR RUN PHED WATER THROUGH THEM?  NOT SURE, WHAT WOULD YOU DO????????????????????  GOT GOOD LOOKIN ROOTS, GATTA BE LOCK OUT FROM PH. I HAVE BEEN GIVING 5.6-5.9 PH, MAYBE I NEED TO RAISE IT SOME?????????????????IVE HAD THIS DROOPYNESS, CURLED LEAF THIS WHOLE GROW     ***? i just used tap water with clearex...ppm was 340, and ph was 6.5 with no additives......what do i have to lose?   i feel like i am performing cpr.   ill try anything


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## Super Silver Haze (Aug 1, 2009)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> just transplant cubes and hydroton in a pot with soil?  is that ok?



im new togrowing also so take my advice with a grain of salt but i would try and pull the cube out of the hydroton unless there are alot of roots shooting through the bottom of your netpots.  i just dont feel comfortable stressing the plant from damaging the roots.  i dont think you will run into problems if you transplant with the hydroton, just make sure the top of the cube is covered with soil.

my clones were in 4 " grodan and they were transplanted in soil and they look to be thriving.  

i think in a different thread Jbonze offered excellent advice to you.  me, i still am unsure of your method of growing.  am i right that you are doing Ebb & Flow?

it still seems to me you get the droopy leaves from overwatering.  are you still squeezing excess water out of the cubes each watering?  when i squeezed the excess water out of mine they got all wilted for a few days.

good luck


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## loolagigi (Aug 1, 2009)

Super Silver Haze said:
			
		

> im new togrowing also so take my advice with a grain of salt but i would try and pull the cube out of the hydroton unless there are alot of roots shooting through the bottom of your netpots. i just dont feel comfortable stressing the plant from damaging the roots. i dont think you will run into problems if you transplant with the hydroton, just make sure the top of the cube is covered with soil.
> 
> my clones were in 4 " grodan and they were transplanted in soil and they look to be thriving.
> 
> ...


i am dipping cubes into solution the cubes are sorrounded by hydroton, and are in a pot with holes at bottom. no ebb and flow...dip.  i dont wanna transplant in soil, i wont learn **** from that. if i choose a method its from the start to finish. live or die.  i leached as explained above. ill wait a couple days and let cubes dry out a little. hopefully clearex, and water cleaned out whatever is building up in my medium.  well see.......thanks for your advice.


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## JBonez (Aug 1, 2009)

Let em dry out


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## loolagigi (Aug 1, 2009)

JBonez said:
			
		

> Let em dry out


thanks j, dont go far.........


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## loolagigi (Aug 1, 2009)

once they dry out, then what?


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## JBonez (Aug 1, 2009)

then rethink your watering or feeding practices, let em dry out, and when they perk up, water them less.


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## loolagigi (Aug 1, 2009)

JBonez said:
			
		

> then rethink your watering or feeding practices, let em dry out, and when they perk up, water them less.


stick around


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## loolagigi (Aug 2, 2009)

well after a week of trying all types of things it seems a good flush with clearex did it. i think i am going to flush again today, whatcha think?  compare pictures from last shown above...looks to me leavs have perked up


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## loolagigi (Aug 2, 2009)

added this


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## loolagigi (Aug 2, 2009)

ok here we go. im ganna test the worst plant with a little b1 and flush to see if it helps. then apply to others if needed be.........these pictures were taken seconds after i used 1/4 tsp/ gal of tap water and top watered heavilly to clean out medium......pics to come.....


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