# Light advice



## joshdnoonan (Feb 1, 2020)

First time grower here.  Got the seeds sprouted and put in pots.  I need to upgrade my lights looking for recommendations.


----------



## cardgenius (Feb 1, 2020)

It all depends on how much space you plan to grow in and how much money you have to spend but from your picture it looks like you’ll need a decent amount of coverage. 2x4 or more?

I’d look into the line of Spider Farmer LED fixtures. Lots of growers here and on YouTube use them and get great results. Look at the SF-2000 specifically.


----------



## thegloman (Feb 1, 2020)

For budget concerns
Look at spider farmer sf1000 & sf2000.
Then look at king plus 1500w.
I use king 1500, king 1300 and sf1000 for 5-6 plants.
If your finances allow there are some excellent LEDs out there.


----------



## Lesso (Feb 1, 2020)

I run a spider farmer sf4000 and mars hydro sp250


----------



## Locked (Feb 1, 2020)

I am a King LED user and I love them. I always recommend them to growers on a budget. 
I have both a 1200 and 1500.  If I could do it over I would have gotten 2 1500's. 

155.00 US with free shipping for Prime members. 

https://www.amazon.com/Double-Spect...ASJ464JYY7H&psc=1&refRID=KBAES12DZASJ464JYY7H


----------



## notthecops (Feb 1, 2020)

Consider me old school, but I use HPS and MH. Yes, not as easy on the hydro bill, but the results make up for it.

I start with 600w and move up to 1000w for flower


----------



## Locked (Feb 1, 2020)

notthecops said:


> Consider me old school, but I use HPS and MH. Yes, not as easy on the hydro bill, but the results make up for it.
> 
> I start with 600w and move up to 1000w for flower



I was the same way until I got to the new LED Tech. I get comparable yields using less electricity, produce less heat and don't have to buy replacement bulbs every 6 months to a year. I will never go back.


----------



## notthecops (Feb 1, 2020)

Hamster Lewis said:


> I was the same way until I got to the new LED Tech. I get comparable yields using less electricity, produce less heat and don't have to buy replacement bulbs every 6 months to a year. I will never go back.



Since you’ve used both, do you find LED’s get the same light penetration? I get that they are bright, but from what I’ve seen, they don’t penetrate bushy plants as much.


----------



## Locked (Feb 1, 2020)

notthecops said:


> Since you’ve used both, do you find LED’s get the same light penetration? I get that they are bright, but from what I’ve seen, they don’t penetrate bushy plants as much.



They get enough penetration to do the job well. I always try to train my plants and open them up anyway. I usually remove the lower growth to focus the plant's energy on the main branches. I didn't this time because I was in a rush to get some fresh bud for my wife.  This is what I have going now in my Flower tent. A satori. I can still pull 3 ounces dry and I only grow in 1 gallon Smart Pots. That is the same amount I was getting under HPS using 1-gallon Smart pots. Plus I can grow later into Spring. Temps remain lower.


----------



## Daxtell (Feb 2, 2020)

Hamster Lewis said:


> I am a King LED user and I love them. I always recommend them to growers on a budget.
> I have both a 1200 and 1500.  If I could do it over I would have gotten 2 1500's.



I ordered the 1500 this morning.  How much space does it light?  I am deciding which lamps for veg and flower. My veg space is 2.5' x 4.5', and flower space is 3' x 3' (but I may extend it to 1 m^2.)  I have a 1200 and 600 already.  The 600 is far too little for my space


----------



## thegloman (Feb 2, 2020)

LED's don't penetrate as well as HPS or MH but there is much less power consumption and WAY less heat.
If you practice Proper exfoliation techniques and open the plant up, the LED's will produce just as well and for over all less money.
I would invest in the best LED I could afford.
The sf4000 is an Awesom light but I can't afford one.
Id have to say the King plus 1500w is my best for the money light.  155 bucks and its BRIGHT!


----------



## oldfogey8 (Feb 2, 2020)

Daxtell said:


> I ordered the 1500 this morning.  How much space does it light?  I am deciding which lamps for veg and flower. My veg space is 2.5' x 4.5', and flower space is 3' x 3' (but I may extend it to 1 m^2.)  I have a 1200 and 600 already.  The 600 is far too little for my space


I have a 3’x3’ tent as well. The 1500 supplemented with the other 2 should work well. I have a King 1200(I took hamsters recommendation a few years back) and it is bright but I needed more light for the space. I now use the 1200 with 2 ‘600 watt’ LEDs (they draw like 150 watts) and I am very happy with my buds. My only problem is my tent gets a bit hot (lower 80’s with all 3 lights going and I have read mid 70’s is less likely to burn off terpene)but I only have a 4” centrifugal exhaust fan(I forget the cfm). As gloman stated, defoliation is a must to get good light penetration. I am still working up to the proper level of defoliation. I am a bit of a chicken when it comes to that...
Good luck.


----------



## oldfogey8 (Feb 2, 2020)

Japanfreak said:


> The advertisement for the King 1500w LED is so misleading, like most stuff on Amazon. It says it can replace a 1000 HPS. That is not close to reality. At 280w it might be able to replace a 400 or 600. For $120 you can get a 600 HPS system and any grower should be able to pull over 10 oz.
> 
> Here's my observations on what good growers can do with lights.
> HPS should be hitting anywhere from 0.5 gpw to 1.0 gpw
> ...


 
So with 2 King LED lights using your estimates you will get around 1/3 more weight per grow but will spend about 1/3 less on energy for the lights alone which does not take into account energy to cool a tent with an HPS. Using 13.19 cents per kwh, you would save $30 or per 8 week cycle so every year, you save the cost of a King 1500 and an LED lasts (supposedly) 50000 hours. So you also save on bulb replacement(1 new bulb per year?). You also need less vertical space as LEDs can be used closer to the canopy if you don’t have high ceilings. Bottom line as I see it is LEDs have a lot of advantages over HPS/MH illumination(initial cost, cost to run, heat, grow space volume) and the technology will only get better (spectrum versatility) and cheaper(as the cost for middle of the road LEDs is about half what it was 10 years ago) going forward.


----------



## Locked (Feb 2, 2020)

Japanfreak said:


> Correct me if I am wrong, I think I read in your thread that you are pulling 4 oz from those 2 lights? So that's 185 watts plus 280 watts for a combined 465 watts? Most of the grows I see with the newer quantum boards/cobs are pulling in over 1gpw so more like a pound or so for that power consumption. So either I read or misunderstood your yields, or I'm thinking those might not be quality lights.



I had to start this grow from scratch as I didn't have clones to use.  I only got one female, a Satori. That 4 ounces will be off one plant in a One Gallon pot. The 2 lights are overkill but it is a 4x4x6.5 Flower tent so I wanted to make sure it was properly lit. I normally run 5 to 6 plants in there and get 3 ounces per plant minimum. Usually more. Most LED companies oversell their lights when it comes to replacing an HPS. I don't buy that hype but I did buy the lights and love them.


----------



## oldfogey8 (Feb 2, 2020)

Japanfreak said:


> Basically yeah. For sure, LEDs are the way of the future. I am switching to them for my summer grows and keeping my HPS in the winter where I use that heat for my home and the oil savings offset the electrical costs. Obviously not all LEDs are equal though, you still have to pay attention to actual watts.


Makes sense. As hamster stated, most LED manufacturers oversell their products. I kinda look at their PPFD and try to use that value to make sure I have enough plant-usable light for flowering(another leap of faith is taking their measurements for fact).  The older King Plus lights have IR and UV LEDs included in the array which from what I have read are beneficial to cannabis. I am not sure if the newer ones do as they changed the design and now have a bloom and veg switch. I have 2 Growstar 600 LEDs which I bought because they have 2 COB LEDs along with an assortment of different spectrum LEDs. According to the literature for the lights I have about 2100 umol/m^2-s at 18” but that would be if all 3 were illuminating the same sweet spot. I’ve read that ~1000 umols is a good number for flowering. I don’t have a meter nor the money to buy one but I think the lighting is good for my space as I got some nice dense crystally buds. My pruning needs some work to get my yield up. I got around a half gram per watt of nice bud and a bit more of popcorn that I will be using to make CO2 hash. Hopefully proper pruning will minimize the popcorn...


----------



## Lesso (Feb 2, 2020)

Not to mention that you will see a surge in your resin production/preservation leading to higher levels of thc. I did a side by side on this site. Green crack grown under the hps was fluffier and less covered in trichomes. Under the led i had much frostier denser buds.
I used to grow under hps too, as i was convinced there was no real better alternative. Now, from experience, i can tell you that is no longer true. I pull a bigger, more potent, denser yield with the  same wattage on my led. Running about 980 true watts. Last run i did not max out my space and pulled 33 or oz. This time im im thinking i should get 1200 grams or so.
I no longer have a heat issue either, btw.


----------



## notthecops (Feb 2, 2020)

Some interesting reading for sure.
I don’t have an issue with heat using 2 x 1000w’s though. I have them air cooled, pulling air from the carbon filter, through the lights, taking it directly outside the house.  So one fan takes car of smell and heat.  The only difference I would compare to for my own set up, is cost of hydro, which I know would be significant. However the yields I get make up for it for sure.

Guess I’m just happy with what I know, but I would like to learn more about LED’s from all of you, without hijacking this thread any further....lol


----------



## stinkyattic (Feb 2, 2020)

I'm with Hamster on this one. Ran only HID until recently when the higher end Samsung daylight leds became affordable. I run 2 sf2000 plus a HPS600 for heat (It's FREEZING in the stinky attic in winter) and being able to throw more watt equivalents into a small space from multiple point sources without overheating the plants or melting your romex kinda negates the penetration issue. 
Hid bulbs are so short lived and so expensive to replace that the modern LEDs coming down in price as much as they have make it an easier choice for a cheap Yankee like myself! Pinch those pennies til they scream!
I do also have a bit of a fear of blurple lights as tattletales seeping out around my incomplete window blackouts, which is a factor when deciding on which LED array suits your space.


----------

