# Aquashield and Chem Nutes



## Genuine (Jun 29, 2011)

I'm using a bubbleponic system.. My seedlings are about 9 days old and looking pretty good as they are ust starting to grow their second pair of leaves but im seeing some brown on the roots. I was looking to get Botanicare Aquashield, but im afraid that i may neutralize the positive effects of Aquashield with GH Flora Series nutes. basically im afraid i might kill the beneficials in Aquashield with the Chemical nutes in the GH nutes. Am i right, or can I still go for Aquashield? Ive also read about Dutch master Gold Zone. Its a bit more pricey, but ive seen great reviews for it and since its chemicals i would assume i wont have too many problems other than potentially overdosing the roots. 

Does anyone know if Aquahield is good for me, or do I need a chem based root protectant/stimulant like Dutch Master? Are there any root buffers iin particualr someone could recommend for  a DWC/bubble set up?

Anyone have experience with this Dutch Master Gold Zone?


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## Growdude (Jun 29, 2011)

at 9 days old, forget about anything other then the GH until it looks like your problem is gone.

I wouldnt be using much for nutes,under 400 PPM, and make sure your PH is ~ 5.8


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## Genuine (Jun 29, 2011)

yeah im having no trouble with feeding and the foliage actually seems to be growing fairly decently its just that in 1 of my 3 plants the root had dried out  or something mid-root and shriveled and turned brown even though its in a bubble system which i found strange, and then i noticed that the other two have a little browning also so im afraid there may be something there which i need to get rid of or maybe i need to provide some support for them. Ive already sterilized the res and all other tools and equipment with bleach and hydrogen peroxide. it does not seem to progressing but the roots don't really look as preppy and happy as other roots i have seen for plants in the same stage of growth. the two other plants that are barely affected are growing good in my eyes. that one with the dried root has stunted and i dont think it will grow or maybe it will but very slowly cause the root has definitely elongated but has not branched out like the other 2 and still has a little stretch of shriveled root which is probably restricting a lot of nutrient intake. anyways i read that Aquashield is safe to use for seedlings all the way to flower and beyond and I think ill probably get it. I just want to make sure im not wasting my money with Aquashield if my nutes will just kill the beneficials in it and thats what im trying to find out.


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## Growdude (Jun 29, 2011)

Ive never used it but Im sure it wont hurt, but Im sure its not the fix, My advice is more air to the rez.


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## Genuine (Jun 29, 2011)

i had a feeling that too much exposure to air might have been one factor that caused the root(s) to shrivel so i placed more water in the res like 2 days ago and the 1 plant that had it bad seems to be hangng in there fighting off the oppressive forces. 

Could high res temps possibly have caused this? I think that might have been another factor. I was leaving the plants in the Cali sun throughout the day for about 4 days after they sprouted and  they grew beautifully, but this was also the time that i noticed the problem. I then brought them inside and into their grow box and its been another 4-5 days since then. idk if it really helped but it certainly did not make things worse and like i said before two of the 3 are looking really attractive whilst the other is stunted and seems to be dying a slow death although it still looks nice and green as if its only 3/4 days old.  its 2nd set of leaves are even starting to grow out, but slowly in comparison to its siblings and the first pair seem to be getting weaker.

the more i observe it seems the problem is not really progressing or regressing, so in a way its good. it just hurts to see the affected root like young and healthy towards the stem and near its tip but all ravaged in the middle...and then i see a little light brown here and there on the other two plants and that makes me sleepless at night  ...

I'll talk with my local hydro dude tomorrow and set things straight. wish i had some pics you all could overlook. it would probably help a ton in identifying the problem.


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## Genuine (Jun 29, 2011)

Just checked on the plants and looked at the roots and actually they seem to be getting better including the ravaged one. ( i had not checked since last night) In fact the roots have really started to get pretty long and the two healthy ones' roots are branching out quite a bit. I wish you guys could see these kids. they are freaking beautiful! the middle of the foliage where the leaves are growing out from are like a bright neon green and then it fades into a perfect green and the leaves themselves are fanned out so profusely its like a peacock flashing its feathers.

Im still talking to t he hydro dude tomorrow though. I wish i could just bring in the plant itself to get diagnosed.


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## Locked (Jun 29, 2011)

Glad it's looking better brosef.


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## Growdude (Jun 30, 2011)

Genuine said:
			
		

> i had a feeling that too much exposure to air might have been one factor that caused the root(s) to shrivel
> 
> Could high res temps possibly have caused this?


 

You cant get to much air to your roots. But high rez temps definetly can cause this.

Water looses its ability to hold O2 the higher the temp gets.


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## Genuine (Jun 30, 2011)

I think the most affected one is going to die. the leaves are starting to droop. those initial sprout leaves (chrolomi-something?) have turned yellow and curled up while my other two are really showing their colors and still have those initial seedling leaves. 

I have a water pump in the res just to help move the water around and i noticed that the surface of the tubing seems to have a little film of slime. nothing visible really though and honestly i dont really know if it is slime or if the tube is just wet lol...but i did see some what appears to be brown algae insde the tubes too   i think there may be a weak link somewhere in my set up. its probably not the pump because i only just added it thinking it might help reduce the chance of infestation. I guess i was wrong.

im kinda afraid here. my girls are only 10 days old. the best treatment for this is something called Physan 20, but  idk if the saplings will be able to handle such a chemical. 

ugh i dont really know wht to do or say. anyone got some advice? i could really use some guidance in this situation. i dont really even know if its brown algae infestation or if there is even any unwanted organism in my res, but slightly brown roots plus the discovery of little light brown patches my tubing is enough for me to conclude there must be some type of infestation just now beginning to invade. its nothing bad yet, but if i dont take care of it soon, it could get worse. but if i take of it soon, i could be killing off my little babies alongside the "invaders" and thats not something i want to do.....ahhhhh WHY?


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## WoodyPheonix (Jun 30, 2011)

I was going to reply yesterday but got cought up in something else.
My thoughts were you have a light leak somewhere and from what you are saying about algae, this sort of confirms it for me. Algae cannot survive without light!
Touch what you think is affected and if it is slimey follow the instructions here http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2177 
Since the remedy includes using H2O2 and water, it is perfectly safe for seedlings of that age.
If you have a clear "indicator tube" anywhere, get rid of it, they are usually the cause. Otherwise, check everything, especially making sure the netpots are not bleeding light through the clay pellets. I have had this problem before and my girls recovered but it took time.
Green mojo my friend and I hope your babies recover. W


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## Genuine (Jun 30, 2011)

do i need to add 5ml per gallon or 5ml total? also do i need t soak the roots completely in the solution or just let it sit as i have it now about 1 inch above water?


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Jun 30, 2011)

I've run into some strange gunk when I ran DWC bubblers, and could never find the light leak. Peroxide didn't work for me, I ended up using Dutch Master Zone. It nukes everything, I had no problems after that. Weekly rez changes and everything was gravy.


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## WoodyPheonix (Jun 30, 2011)

5ml per gal.
Empty your buckets out then pour the new solution back in through the netpot.
If you use clear air lines, the hole where it enters the bucket is probably the place to cover with tape. Level indicators and the netpots are the usual leaky places. Also white buckets reflect the slightest bit of light.
I just stick a bit of duct tape over the airline hole and make sure the netpot is deep enough to stop tiny bits of light getting through.
W


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Jun 30, 2011)

WoodyPheonix said:
			
		

> 5ml per gal.
> Empty your buckets out then pour the new solution back in through the netpot.
> If you use clear air lines, the hole where it enters the bucket is probably the place to cover with tape. Level indicators and the netpots are the usual leaky places. Also white buckets reflect the slightest bit of light.
> I just stick a bit of duct tape over the airline hole and make sure the netpot is deep enough to stop tiny bits of light getting through.
> W



That's the strength I was using the 30% peroxide at if I can remember right. 1 tsp per gallon. It didn't do anything noticeable in my setup and I was surprised as I had read lots of rave reviews on it. Clearly it has worked for lots of folks.
I was running DWC, RO water, thick black 5 gallon buckets. The air lines going in were also solid black 1/4" rubber, taped hole. 6-inch net pots filled with hydroton... I never could find the leak. Looking back, maybe I should have covered the hydroton...? My roots developed a brown slime and the peroxide was my first attempt at knocking it out. It just didn't help in my situation. 
After adding the DM Zone, I noticed an immediate turn around in root health. After 3 days, lots of new root growth. After a week, things were definitely back on track, gleaming white roots and no more algae scuz.
The stuff is pure chems, and definitely wasn't the option I wanted to go with at first. But in the end, it was the solution to a problem that would have ended my grow in week 2 of flowering. 
This was my first real attempt at hydro, so I'm by no means an expert on the subject. Just sharing what worked in my situation. :farm:


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## Genuine (Jun 30, 2011)

thanks a ton for everyones input. hearing the Doc's statement has convinced me to buy DM Zone. All i ever read is that it is very strong so care is necessary when applying; that it works, and that roots always explode after applying.

Do you mind detailing the entire process of how you added the Zone to your plants? Like i said ealrier, mine are only 10 days old and so I have to scale down whatever you did for your plants to the correct levels for mine. I have a set up almost exactly like yours except i have 3 plants in the a 5 gal right now since they are youngins.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Jul 1, 2011)

Genuine said:
			
		

> thanks a ton for everyones input. hearing the Doc's statement has convinced me to buy DM Zone. All i ever read is that it is very strong so care is necessary when applying; that it works, and that roots always explode after applying.
> 
> Do you mind detailing the entire process of how you added the Zone to your plants? Like i said ealrier, mine are only 10 days old and so I have to scale down whatever you did for your plants to the correct levels for mine. I have a set up almost exactly like yours except i have 3 plants in the a 5 gal right now since they are youngins.



Long story short, I vegged for 3 weeks in a very small Ebb/Flow setup in 3" rockwool cubes, then transplanted them each into 5 gallon DWC buckets for flowering. The algae set in about right at the end of vegging in the E/F setup and continued to get worse once in DWC. I started Zone 1 week after transplanting into the bubblers, I believe at the recommended 'light' feeding. <<I need to double check my notes on that, they are in my grow room and it's lights out atm, I will repost my exact measurements tomorrow when I can get to my notes.


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## WoodyPheonix (Jul 1, 2011)

Something just occured to me on reading Dr's post. 
What is your res temp Genuine?
High res temps could cause root problems too.
Just been reading write ups about DM Zone and it sounds killer stuff. Would like to know what is in it though!
Something else that can help with root problems is trachaderma and it can be used in hydro.

Stay frosty dudes. W


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## Genuine (Jul 1, 2011)

Yeah i think initially high res temps had been the cause since i was leaving the plants outside in the sun and the water must have been 80+. im keeping the plants in the box now and the water is floating around in the low 70's during the day and high 60's at night. i got another air pump but DM zone was unavailable at the local hydro store. This weekend im gonna completely change their pots, res, water, and everything and see what happens from there.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Jul 1, 2011)

Hmm, your temps sound ok to me. I think 65-70 is optimal, WoodyP or somebody that knows more about hydro than me will line you out.
I checked my notes and I was adding Zone at the recommended 'continuous' dose of 1ml per gallon. You can get more aggressive with it but it worked for me just at the low dose.
It's derived from Potassium Nitrate and Copper Sulfate, which explains why it looks and smells like pool cleaner  
I couldn't get it here in OR because it's not licensed here, but it is available just about everywhere else. Ebay is your best bet if you can't find it locally.
Good luck fighting the scuz! :aok:


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## Genuine (Jul 1, 2011)

Yeah I got it! Found it at the local hydro dude from the town nearest mine. Did some hardcore scrubbing and upped the nute supply. also got me some mylar. i feel like im opening the door to some heavenly galactic paradise whenever i open the door to the box now thanks to brightness from the mylar. i began germination of a replacement seed for Fiona (the one that recently passed, and whose leaves  i also ate LOL. just smelled a little like weed and couldnt resist...Tasted like weak bud lolol) 

Lets see how this goes!


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Jul 2, 2011)

Keep us updated


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## Genuine (Jul 2, 2011)

do you know if the timing when adding the nutes after the Zone matters? Liike directions say to add Zone before PHing, then after PH add nutes. So what i did was put the Zone, waited 5 mins then PHed, then waited another 10 mins and added the nutes. Do you think that separation of time was necessary?


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Jul 2, 2011)

Ph-ing should always be your last step, otherwise the nutrients you add will change your solutions pH after you have adjusted it.
The bottle of Zone I have says "Add Gold Range Zone before nutrient then adjust pH (5.5-5.8)"  
I added it as the first step when mixing up my solution, then nutes, then pH. No time in-between.


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## Genuine (Jul 2, 2011)

ok i just wanted to be sure that the chemcals got diluted cause i wasnt sure if concentrations of ZOne would effect the nutes in any way. And yeah i also checked the Ph after nutes. Mine never affect Ph though. In fact once I Ph the res i never have to adjust it until the next time i clean it. pretty odd but a good oddity.

I got another air pump today. woo. now for the explosion of growth (fingers crossed)


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## Genuine (Jul 3, 2011)

o i dont think Zone was the answer to my problems. The brown stuff is back with a vengeance. Not too bad, but not good. Gonna try a peroxide dunk tonight. Can someone just detail how i should do it? Do i just change the res and sterilize with the peroxide and/or bleach and then also add peroxide to the res before nutes and such? Do i flush and change res again or can i just add it along with the zone and nutes? 3% at 5ml per gallon right? can i add nutes to it or shoul di just stick with peroxide for a couple of days?

since i dont have a cam i have to use other photos for reference. this is basically what my roots look like except not nearly as bad and less roots. but im thinking if i dont get a handle on it soon it could end up like this.
http://www.420magazine.com/gallery/data/500/1134Root-rot-CB2.jpg


is it root rot or brown algae? is the peroxide a good choice for this?


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## Genuine (Jul 5, 2011)

ok so i take back anything negative i said about DM Zone. Whatever was threatening the plants' roots is definitely losing the fight. the Roots are really  pulling through and the plants themselves looks as though they have been shot in the veins with life. no real explosion of growth or anything, except the roots themselves to some extent, but they do look like they can run a 5km marathon, albeit with a smoke break here and there. in short, DM Zone worked for me. 

but i think i need to get some humdity in there. The leaves look to have that V shaped cupping which if i remember correctly is a physical sign from the plant that has to do with little humidity in the air or something...? if anyone could clarify on that issue id appreciate it very much


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