# Yellowing leaves



## DonJones (Feb 19, 2010)

Variety:  Permafrost
Medium: Black Gold
Nutrients: FLD 3 part Late veg mixture
Temp: 85F to 89F
Recent changes:  Moved into other room and placed under HPS & MH mixture Ratio: 1:1 instead of straight MH

Light cycle:  16/8

Problem:  The second day after moving under HPS/MH mixture and the first day after feeding just like we have been feeding them for several weeks, about 2/3 of the way up the plant, on different branches of varying age, suddenly we got about 10% of the fan leaves only in a narrow band around the plant yellowing along the edges and then stayed the same for 2 more days.

The effected leaves aren't getting any worse of any better and it is not spreading to any other leaves.  The leaves feel just like the healthy dark green ones next to them.

The first picture is of the biggest leaf effected while still on the plant.  The second picture is approximately 90 degrees around the plant at the same height and is the second largest leaf from the third picture which is of 3 effected leaves picked and laid on white paper to better contrast.  The pictures on the plant were shot in a 50/50 mix of HPS & MH light without flash.  The third picture was shot under incandescent light with flash.  The leaves in question in the first 2 pictures are slightly below center of the picture.  The ones higher aren't actually turning copllor -- it is just the way the HPS light is hitting them.  The one in the ceenter of the first picture is actually the best one.

The leaves are NOT curling or drying out.

All of the nutrient deficiencies that I read about involved curling leaves and implied a more wide spread distribution in the plant.

The other 4 plants that were moved with it and feed out of the same batch of nutrient mixture are doing just fine even though they all 5 had even thing done as closely to identically as possible.  However the other 4 are a different variety.

What do you think is going on and why are the effected leaves in a narrow band around the plant, even though some of them are twice as far from the junction between the branch and main stem as others?

Any insight you can give will be appreciated.  Right now it doesn't seem to be a crisis because it isn't getting any worse.

Thank you and great smoking everyone.


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## ta2dguy (Feb 20, 2010)

hi don, how are you?  i figure you already got the ph dialed in . i did not see it in your post. the reason i ask is in my eyes i see a few def. issues, intervenal chlorosis, purplish stems/stalks, necrotic patches  and where the effected areas are on the plant leads me to believe that the ph is slightly outta whack or maybe that one plant is more sensitive than the others in the ph level you are at. please remember don that it is just my view of what i see but when dealing with multiple def. symptoms i look to the ph first..... but i know you already know that . good luck don and happy growing.


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## DonJones (Feb 20, 2010)

ta2dguy,

Thanks man.

The reason I didn't mention the PH is because I forgot it.  As well as I can tell with my color reagent testing the PH is 6.0.  I have a meter on the way in the mail.  I'll check the PH for sure as soon as it gets here.

The stems/stalks have always been somewhat purplish, but the person who gave me the clone said that was a trait of the variety.

What does "intervenal chlorosis" mean?  This is the first time I've seen that term used.

Man you have a lot better eyes than I do if you can see all of those things from my lousy pictures.  I need to get a better camera that has macro capability so that I can take better close ups.

Any idea why they yellowing leaves appeared over night after the first feeding under HPS?

Do HPS highlight border line PH problems?  I know the Humbolt additives lines mention if they are used under HPS, the lights need to be raised approximately 12" over night, but I don't know why.

Thanks again.

Great smoking.


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## ta2dguy (Feb 20, 2010)

intervenal chlorosis is where the flesh between the viens of the leaf turn yellow but the viens remain a noticeable green colour instead of the whole leaf uniformly turning yellow  . i learned a long time ago that how yellowing occurs means a great deal. does it start at the tips and move in, does it start at the stem and move out, does it start at the bottom, top or middle of the plant   etc. all mean something different... sometimes . i dunno what else to say don, i am surprised that no one else threw an idea or two in but i am sure they will soon enough. thats the best i got man . good luck for sure and i would say that they dont look bad right now but keep a good eye on them it can happen fast sometimes. happy growing.


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## DonJones (Feb 21, 2010)

Aman about changing quickly.

Looking at the different leaves, I think they are starting to yellow at the outer edge pretty much full length of the leaf -- at least that is the way the less effected leaves look --, but I'm not sure because this seemed to happen over night.

My meters arrived today so I will be checking the PH tomorrow once I get a chance to activate and calibrate it.  I'll also get a chance to check the PPMs.

The FHD recommendation is for 5.3 to 6.3 after mixing.  They say that their nutrients are nearly neutral so far as PH goes, but I'll see.

Thanks for the answers.

Great smoking.


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## ta2dguy (Feb 23, 2010)

hey don, how did things go? i am kinda curious cuz it is always good to see a problem either fixed or in progress. the pics and info could be of great future value to not just you or me but to anyone reading the thread . i have a huge interest in it cuz i have a hard time keeping my ph down and diagnosis of ph issues is a definite major issue with growing. thanks in advance .


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## DonJones (Feb 24, 2010)

My PHs were a little lower than the colored reagent indicated -- about 5.95 versus 6.0 and after they set for about 24 hours they seem to drift down a couple of tenths.  After mixing the FHD nutrients and letting them sit for a couple of hours the PH drops to 5.4 or 5.3 depending upon whether or not it is the veg or flower mix.

Outside of a slight yellowing at the extreme tips of reach little point along the leaves, every thing seems to be staying about the same on all of the plants.

When I took pictures and enlarged them to full screen, the small yellow tips weren't really clear so I didn't post them.

Another thing that is strange is my raw tap water only shows 169 PPM but the analysis from the water department shows 209 -- but that analysis is an average of their samples and is about 6 months or more old so there could be a 40 point change.  What is strange is were mixing 3 gallons at a time and using medical syringes that are marked in 0.1 ml to insure accuracy and then checking the PPMs we find that using precisely the formula that the nutrient manufacturer lists, our solution PPMs are approximately 250 to 300 PPMs higher than the label says they should be for that particular mixture formula, even after subtracting the initial 169 PPMs from the raw water.  

I'm beginning to wonder if maybe that is because our meters use different conversion factors, say one is a 0.5 and the other a 0.7 conversion factor.  Or am I mistaken that 2 meters of different conversion factors will show a different PPM in the same sample?

Great smoking.


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## ozzydiodude (Feb 24, 2010)

Hey *Don* when growing in soils you want a 6.3 to 6.5 PH


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 24, 2010)

Don...I'm sorry ...but I'm too stoned to read all that...your plant didn't look like it was doing too bad though...at least nothing to sweat about.  

your patients will never see the leaves.


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## EsC420PoT (Feb 25, 2010)

I could be wrong , but id say its either a nitrogen  deficiency or that the mixture of the MH and HPS may be cookin your plants a lil, try adding nuts and/or moveing the lights a lil futher away. Hope this helps.


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## blondeboy (Mar 1, 2010)

This looks like a chemical toxicity problem. I would suggest gently removing the entire plant from the soil and gently spraying it with purified water.  This &#8220;wash out&#8221; will immediately remove all toxic chemicals. Thereafter, throw away old soil and start over with some new soil with the right amount of PH level.


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## trillions of atoms (Mar 2, 2010)

blondeboy said:
			
		

> This looks like a chemical toxicity problem. I would suggest gently removing the entire plant from the soil and gently spraying it with purified water. This wash out will immediately remove all toxic chemicals. Thereafter, throw away old soil and start over with some new soil with the right amount of PH level.


 


dont do this.



back off feeding.....feed with pure distilled water. see if they start to tyellow out evenly. if they do you know there not getting enough food. if its a diffency then it could be one nutrient there not getting and need. 

if you did nothing but add another light- either back that light way off the plant or take it back out and see.

it could be a circumstantial thing where you had something going on in the rootzone and it just so happen to pop up after adding the light... theres so many questions to ask to  try and see what it could be.

what kind of soil, water, genetics, how far is the lights from the plants, wats the high temp during mid day light on, what kind of ventilation, how are you measuring your nutes, how do you test your water and soil, etc...etc...

to try to diagnose a plant problem all the info on the grow must be laid out. and every little detail!!!


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## JBonez (Mar 5, 2010)

Don, while im not a fan of flushing agents, i would suspect a potential salt buildup?

Have you ruled that out?

I see a little Mg def, you feeding them enough? looks like they are getting an imbalanced nutrient schedule, not sure, i hate soil, lol.


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