# Help Identify the issue



## scud626 (Nov 11, 2012)

HI,
     I am a  first time grower and I am seeing a start to a problem that I  would like to stop it before it gets too bad. To start, I am using 10ML/gallon of pro blend grow with about 2.5ml/gallon of calcium. I have two plants growing in a single 5 gallon DWC with a water pump to provide water to the top. The water pump is set to run 1/2 hour for every 3 hours. The temp has been 65-82 for the whole grow. I checked the PH every other day and the highest it has been is 6.5. I adjust it down to 5.8 every time.
 Any assistance in trying to figure out what is going on would help, I just don't want it to develop to a bigger problem down the road. On the first leaves after the cotyledon there is some brown spots starting from the tips it has moved up and started on the next set of leaves, I have attached a picture of the issue. Any suggestions would be helpful because everything I read does not match.


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## pcduck (Nov 11, 2012)

Looks like some nutes splashed on them. sort of hard to tell from your pic.

DWC stand for deep water culture where your roots are submerged in a nute solution with aeration from an air stone 24/7. Sounds like you are doing a ebb-n-flow/drip system variation.


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## scud626 (Nov 11, 2012)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Looks like some nutes splashed on them. sort of hard to tell from your pic.
> 
> DWC stand for deep water culture where your roots are submerged in a nute solution with aeration from an air stone 24/7. Sounds like you are doing a ebb-n-flow/drip system variation.



It is the DWC I just made a system that has a drips system through the hydroton clay pellets.  I think your Right on the the nutes. I did the first time mistake overfeeding them. I sprayed them with a nute water mix :doh:. I stopped pretty early and now the only leaves that have that on it are the ones I sprayed. Also it may be my drip system was splashing off the media. it was up pretty high, I have turned the flow down  I was thinking of spraying daily with just PH adjusted distilled water. I attached a photo of the other leaf that has damaged and my drip system . any suggestion thanks


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 12, 2012)

I would let the pH go from about 5.3 or 5.5 to 5.8 rather than starting at 5.8 and letting it drift up.  There are some nutes that are not uptaken well at 5.8 or higher.

I don't know how big your plants are, but I never add calcium or magnesium until they are in flowering.  Is there a reason that you are adding cal?  I tried Botanicare several times, but never had really good luck with it--it was probably just me, but I seemed to end up with deficiencies with it.

I don't quite understand the purpose of the drip with the DWC once the plants have roots that reach the water.  I find any time I put a water pump in a 5 gal bucket/tote the water pump raises the temp of the reservoir to undesirable temps.  Make sure that you are monitoring the temps of the solution in the bucket and that they are not getting too warm.


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## scud626 (Nov 12, 2012)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I would let the pH go from about 5.3 or 5.5 to 5.8 rather than starting at 5.8 and letting it drift up.  There are some nutes that are not uptaken well at 5.8 or higher.
> 
> I don't know how big your plants are, but I never add calcium or magnesium until they are in flowering.  Is there a reason that you are adding cal?  I tried Botanicare several times, but never had really good luck with it--it was probably just me, but I seemed to end up with deficiencies with it.
> 
> I don't quite understand the purpose of the drip with the DWC once the plants have roots that reach the water.  I find any time I put a water pump in a 5 gal bucket/tote the water pump raises the temp of the reservoir to undesirable temps.  Make sure that you are monitoring the temps of the solution in the bucket and that they are not getting too warm.




The  only reason I put Cal in the mix is because. I read everywhere with botanicare and distilled water you have to add cal/ mag. The nutes I bought came with a small cal sample bottle. I have bought CAL MAG was going to add when I add fresh nutes rethinking that now.
       The drip system came with the hydro system. I am starting to see that it really not needed after the roots hit the water.the tubing and pump may just get in the way of the roots. I checked the water temp it is fine. I am going to remove the pump and get my ph at ~5.5 thanks.


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## scud626 (Nov 12, 2012)

Ok so I went to check them this morning and they are now curling it looks like Mag issue. I am attaching a picture. I need to swap the nutes today and before I want to make sure I need to add more/less or add mag or something else


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## pcduck (Nov 12, 2012)

Those first set of leaves always die off.

What does the new growth look like?


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## scud626 (Nov 12, 2012)

The new growth looks good only that first leaf and the second set have any kind of blemishes. I will attach photo of the full plants and the damage on the second leaves. Thanks for your quick response


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 12, 2012)

A Phospherous deficiency will look very similar to that but I think that is a chemical burn from where you sprayed them with nuted water. (IMO)Foliar feeding is tricky and shouldn't be used except in emergency situations. I would say to leave them as they are and see if the problem continues to spread to other leaves. If it doesn't show up on other leaves then it is most likely an isolated event like the foliar feed.


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## scud626 (Nov 12, 2012)

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> A Phospherous deficiency will look very similar to that but I think that is a chemical burn from where you sprayed them with nuted water. (IMO)Foliar feeding is tricky and shouldn't be used except in emergency situations. I would say to leave them as they are and see if the problem continues to spread to other leaves. If it doesn't show up on other leaves then it is most likely an isolated event like the foliar feed.




Yes I am thinking that just unsure because it started in bottom leaf (first serated one) and went to the next one but that could be because those where the only two on the plant when I used the foliar spray. IDK I will wait to see if it spreads. If it does I have Liquid Karma that does have phospherous in it I may just add that to the mix at something like 5-2.5ml\gallon. When should I trim these damaged leafs if at all?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 12, 2012)

I don't think it is a nute deficiency  I think they are too small to be exhibiting phosphorus deficiency.  I would keep the nutes simple, especially at this size.  I personally would just give them the Botanicare.  Get your pH where it should be.  Start lower, like 5.3 or 5.5 and don't let it go over 6.0.  Do not foliar feed--I also believe that is what caused the spotting.  Do not trim the leaves, they are still useful to the plant.  The plant will drop them when they are of no use.  What exactly is the res temp when taken with a thermometer?


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## scud626 (Nov 12, 2012)

the temp is 22C when lights are on and 21-20 when off I tested that first cause it looked to be coming from the roots up. I am seeing my error with spray. That's what I get for not consulting the boards before I did it. Thank you all for your responses I will start post pics so we can all watch the them grow


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 12, 2012)

We live and learn. I am still amazed at things I learn about this amazing plant. Just when you think you got it all figured out, you find out something new again 

If you pay close attention to your plants, you will eventually learn to recognise what they want and need as if they are telling you what they want. It takes time and patience to learn them but you will if you read and watch


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## scud626 (Nov 14, 2012)

ok so I changed the water with 10ml/gallon grow and 2.5ml of cal mag. The brown spots in picture is moving up the plant.At this point I have no idea if it was not the foliar feed. My PH is set at 5.6. I turned off the drip system because the roots have reached the water in the rez. Please help!!


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## DrFever (Nov 14, 2012)

here is my take on this matter  looks like start of light burn  from the radiant heat  , raise lights little higher ,   or mag deficieny


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 14, 2012)

That does kinda look like it could be light burn. What kind of lighting are you using on them and how close is it to them? 

Don't over-react to this. You have time to correct it if you haven't already. The damage to the lower leaves won't harm anything at this point if it is stopped at the lower leaves. Once the plants get bigger those lower leaves will most likely die off anyway when they get buried by the higher canopy that will develop. Don't pull them off as the plant will use the chemicals within them for nutrients further up the plant. Once they are all dried up and shrivelled then you can remove them if the plant hasn't dropped them. Be patient and take things one at a time until the problem is solved.


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## pcduck (Nov 14, 2012)

I would try to get my water temps down to the 18 to 20 degree range.

Is your air stone really bubbling/ like boiling in your bucket?

Forget the cal/mg as your grow nutes should have enough in it for the veg period.

What are you using to measure pH?

I like to start my pH at 5.6 and let it drift up to 6.0 before readjusting to the 5.5/5.6 range. When I switched over to r/o I noticed that the pH would self adjust itself if given time before using pH adjusters.


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## scud626 (Nov 14, 2012)

pcduck said:
			
		

> I would try to get my water temps down to the 18 to 20 degree range.
> 
> Is your air stone really bubbling/ like boiling in your bucket?
> 
> ...



ever since turning off the water pump I have been in the 19-20 range my air stone was set on high I turned it down last night. 
 I use a digital tester for my PH. I will let it drift a little more. I calibrated the unit before use.

 my lights are about 3 " from the top of the plant. I was thinking heat but why would the issue start from the bottom


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## pcduck (Nov 14, 2012)

Leave your air stone on high and run it 24/7.

Let your plant regroup before doing anything and let it grow.


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## scud626 (Nov 14, 2012)

here is a picture of what it looks like this morning at this point all I have done is raised the lights from 3 to 6" from the plant


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## pcduck (Nov 14, 2012)

What kind of light are you using?


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## scud626 (Nov 14, 2012)

Two cfl 6500k 125 w


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## pcduck (Nov 14, 2012)

I am pretty sure it is not your light.:aok:

Most cfl's you can get pretty close with no problems. Place the back of your hand at the same level as the top of your plant.  Then raise or lower your light till you fell a slight warmth, that is where I would put my light.

As I previously stated I would leave things be. Let the plant recover and watch your pH, but let it drift some.

Patience is golden when it comes to growing


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## scud626 (Nov 14, 2012)

thanks I will just freaking cause it is spreading up the plant. I will leave them be for now. I was wanting to switch to flower soon but I dont want to stress them out more. I am getting a rez temp gauge would a fish tank  one work


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## pcduck (Nov 14, 2012)

Yes a fish tank thermometer will work, just do not get the ones that go on the outside of the tank.


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## scud626 (Nov 15, 2012)

All right so I do not see this blotching spreading even have some new growth taking off almost looking like it is taking the place of damaged leaves. I was this close to flushing for 72 hours with 5.6 PH water. When the lights came on I changed my mind the plants are looking a little better. I post some picture here to show. Due to limited space I need to switch to bloom I am just scared it will be too soon and just cause unwanted stress at this point.


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## pcduck (Nov 15, 2012)

I would let it veg until it has recovered.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 15, 2012)

I wouldn't switch to bloom until they show sexual maturity or about 5-6wks because if you switch too soon they will stretch like crazy rather than switching over to flowering right away. I would also put at least 2 more bulbs on them so that they won't stretch for the light. They are nice and compact right now and the extra light will help keep them that way until the switch to 12/12


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