# Giving MMJ a BAD name



## NorCalHal (Apr 27, 2008)

These clowns put us all a step back.


http://www.modbee.com/local/story/281477.html


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## nickname (Apr 27, 2008)

i don't see what they have done thats any different to what any other dispensary would have done, they were operating under the law and paying taxes as such, its just that america can't get straight on its laws


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## NorCalHal (Apr 27, 2008)

nickname said:
			
		

> i don't see what they have done thats any different to what any other dispensary would have done, they were operating under the law and paying taxes as such, its just that america can't get straight on its laws


 
Check out his website and video.


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## headband (Apr 27, 2008)

MMJ gets shut down, doing nothing wrong. I only have 2 good ones left, where i use to have 5, In santa barbara. 





> The collective sold marijuana with names such as "purple skunk," "train wreck" and "God's gift" for prices that ranged from $40 to $300 for one-eighth of an ounce.


IDK about $300 for an 1/8th, top price i have seen was $85 and 1/8th in LA.


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## gregsolartan (Apr 27, 2008)

headband said:
			
		

> MMJ gets shut down, doing nothing wrong. I only have 2 good ones left, where i use to have 5, In santa barbara. IDK about $300 for an 1/8th, top price i have seen was $85 and 1/8th in LA.


 
Damn nice racket going on but it is wrong if they a filling botched Rx's...To me it's the same as those online pharmacies with their $150 "Doctor Refferal" fees...LOL I can right now buy any pill I want because I paid some bogus Dr. whom I've never seen or spoken with to write me a script!


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## holdmyown (Apr 27, 2008)

why is it that everytime someone makes sum money, they think they can rap? or is it that they have the money so they just dun care about making fools of themselves


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## NorCalHal (May 1, 2008)

Here is an update. The case is now in Federal Court in Fresno.

For those that do not know, this is the ONLY dispensary case that has gone to trial. ALL others have had the cases dropped or plea deals reached.

Even though I know the real story, this will be a landmark case for dispensaries in The State of California.


http://www.modbee.com/local/story/285565.html


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## lyfr (May 1, 2008)

gee, sounds like helpin people was real important to them...for 6 million dollars.


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## Fadeux (May 1, 2008)

> "We think there's a good-faith argument here," said attorney Anthony Capozzi of Fresno, who represents Scarmazzo. "They, in good faith, thought they could be doing this. They didn't have any intent to violate the law."





> In that video, Scarmazzo, who pulled in $13,000 a month as treasurer and secretary of the collective, flashes wads of cash and shakes his fist at a mock-up of the City Council, which voted to ban businesses such as his.




Thats just ridiculous. Shut em down, lock em up, and take their cash. People like this only validate the idea that "there is no mmj, and these dispensaries are just drug dealers." People like this dont do any of us any good at all.


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## Fadeux (May 1, 2008)

headband said:
			
		

> MMJ gets shut down, doing nothing wrong. I only have 2 good ones left, where i use to have 5, In santa barbara. IDK about $300 for an 1/8th, top price i have seen was $85 and 1/8th in LA.



300 Bucks an 1/8th?!?!?! Thats 100 bucks a gram!

Thats criminal enough in my book. Lock em up!


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## tashido (May 3, 2008)

imo thats why this site exists so people arent forced to pay these crazy prices , That in it self is just wrong. Charging 300$ for an eigth that is.
damn crooks.....


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## Fadeux (May 3, 2008)

Pot should be legal. Millions of people are getting boozed up right now, most of them will drive somewhere, a small percentage will actually end up killing people. We don't have to elevate marijuana to this idol status. Yeah, it works great for med patients. Its disgusting and inhumane that they get locked up for smoking it, but I find it disgusting that its illegal for anyone. These ridiculous profits are created by this prohibition. Legalize it, and the prices will drop dramatically. Taxpayer benefits will increase exponentially. 

Regardless of your stance on medical marijuana, its easy to argue that this prohibition is just retarded...


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## Hick (May 3, 2008)

Fadeux said:
			
		

> Let's be honest, this site isn't nobel, its not serving some "better purpose for humanity."
> 
> Pot should be legal. Millions of people are getting boozed up right now, most of them will drive somewhere, a small percentage will actually end up killing people. We don't have to elevate marijuana to this idol status. Yeah, it works great for med patients. Its disgusting and inhumane that they get locked up for smoking it, but I find it disgusting that its illegal for anyone. These ridiculous profits are created by this prohibition. Legalize it, and the prices will drop dramatically. Taxpayer benefits will increase exponentially.
> 
> Regardless of your stance on medical marijuana, its easy to argue that this prohibition is just retarded...



  I agree, IMHO, it should be 'decriminalized' for recreational and/or medical use. AND, I believe as you said, the horrendous _*Black Market*_ prices would cease to exist.. Upstanding citizens, assets to society, would'nt be haveing their lives ruined by rediculous prosecutions, ect. ect.
BUT....





> Let's be honest, this site isn't nobel, its not serving some "better purpose for humanity."


  IMO... "*THAT"* is _exactly_ what I like to believe MP is about. If we provide a safe friendly environment, in whish we educate and provide concise, correct information, on how folks can free themselves from paying those rediculous prices and contributing to that 'black market',organized crime, commercial ripoffs, ect. ..is that not a "noble" gesture??   AND beneficial to society/humanity?? 
  I think we are. If MP allows a single patient to free himself from the grip of those "theives" chargeing $100 p/gram, we have implimented a very noble action.. IMO.


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## Fadeux (May 3, 2008)

I think I phrased it badly, people on here are great, and do great things for people, but we're pot growers, we aren't out there feeding starving people, or curing cancer. Just my opinion.


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## THE_DUDE (May 3, 2008)

No but we are treating it!



What are _you_ doing to help *fadeux* other than playing the arcade and pointing fingers?


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## Fadeux (May 3, 2008)

THE_DUDE said:
			
		

> No but we are treating it!
> 
> 
> 
> What are _you_ doing to help *fadeux* other than playing the arcade and pointing fingers?



I'm an active member of my states NORML group. Would be at the rally today, but its 6 hours away. I'm currently helping lay the framework for the ballot we would like to propose in the 2010 election.  Not that I need to justify any of this to a stranger on the internet. Ill try to clarify one more time for people what I was trying to say. 

These guys are not helping the cause whatsoever, they are just drug dealers. If you smuggle vicodin across the mexico border and sell it to people who cant get it (for whatever reason) you're just a drug dealer. They are acting stupid, and irresponsible, and making way too much money doing it. 

But I also don't like how people come down on commercial growers on here. Commercial growers supply a well defined need in our society. If people didn't want to buy it at the price they pay for it, commercial growing would dissapear. 

I would have no problems with what these guys did, were they not disguised as a medical facility. The ultimate goal in my book is the legalization of pot. Or decriminalization, I personally like Hollands structure myself. 

If you grow a few plants and smoke them, fantastic. If you grow a few and give them away to cancer patients, fantastic. If you grow several and sell them cancer patients for a reasonable fee to cover your overhead, fantastic.  If you grow under a medical program, and take advantage of sick people with profit in mind, and make rap videos about how [email protected] you are, the get hosed... You're just a p.o.s. drug dealer.

Not to say dealers are all bad, but these losers are. And yeah, we're treating cancer, but don't act like you don't enjoy a little medicine yourself. How about selling your crops and donating all the profits to cancer research? Anyone here actually do that? And I really don't see how the arcade comment is relative. Am I not a good enough person to play a game of pool once in a while?


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## trillions of atoms (May 3, 2008)

:spit: :doh:


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## Hick (May 4, 2008)

> If you grow a few plants and smoke them, fantastic. If you grow a few and give them away to cancer patients, fantastic. If you grow several and sell them cancer patients for a reasonable fee to cover your overhead, fantastic. If you grow under a medical program, and take advantage of sick people with profit in mind, and make rap videos about how [email protected] you are, the get hosed... You're just a p.o.s. drug dealer.



....Here ..here!!!!:aok:


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## Mutt (May 4, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> I think we are. If MP allows a single patient to free himself from the grip of those "theives" chargeing $100 p/gram, we have implimented a very noble action.. IMO.


and with whats going on in england with lead being put in the buds to add wieght....even more reason why teaching others to grow there own is noble.


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## NorCalHal (May 4, 2008)

Great reading!

The reason I posted this is it is a MAJOR issue here in Nor-Cal. These clowns were str8 out for profit, as ALL POT CLUBS ARE, don't be fooled. There is no clubs in the Bay Area that pay more then $4000 a lb., but yet they still sell eighths for $60. Do the math. It's the whole fact that he wanted to become a rapper and flaunt it to the "man". And the video sealed their fate, imho. Now, when MMJ is brought up around here , these fools are what is brought up. They put us back 10 years.


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## tashido (May 5, 2008)

The majority of these comments or statements are completely correct. I believe Mp exists for the general fact as to help other fix their problems reguardless of if it is paying 100$ an eigth to ease pain , or just some casual smoke being as it shouldnt be criminalized. 
I personally believe we all have our own reasons for growing and or smoking so there really is no wrong reasons and if there are its not our buisness why others need or want it. I personally suppourt anyone trying to improve their lives or themselves By taking off the edge or whatever they want to call it.


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## lyfr (May 6, 2008)

ill agree, pot clubs are out for profit. there prices are rediculis(?) most of the time there "highgrade" is either stale or its been kiefed out already.   I have got very good bud from clubs and was glad to pay 60 at the time, but im sooo glad i dont have to deal with that anymore.


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## Fadeux (May 6, 2008)

The dispensaries need to turn a profit, its silly to be in any business and not do it. The question at hand is their amount of compensation. If one were to sell them top quality stuff for, say 5 bucks a gram, and they turned around and sold it for 8 or 9 bucks a gram, I'm cool with that. Getting the black market rates at a "legal" shop seems kind of ridiculous. 

MMJ is a touchy subject with me. We have kids bringing pot to high schools because they have notes saying they can have it. There HAS to be a better way. Californias dispensaries are a huge breakthrough in this battle, and THEY HAVE TO BE RUN VERY RESPONSIBLY! Like it or not, pot is a recreational drug.  I like it, I can easily manufacture a ** story about why I should take it medically. Doesn't make it right. Psilocybe Mushrooms cure cluster headaches, doesn't mean kids can bring them to school. (They too, should be legal) 

It seems to me that california gave an inch in the "War on Drugs" and some places have taken a mile. This is where my opinion starts to contradict itself.  See if you can follow (sometimes I even have a hard time)  The mile they have taken is not morally wrong in my eyes. My beliefs say "Hey! Grow as much of this stuff as you want, and sell it for whatever people will pay for it!"

Why do I believe that? Because it should be the law for everyone, not just 
mmj patients, but joe schmuck too.

Now cali comes along and says, "Its ok for medical patients. Ok, we've got a chink in the armor. Fantastic! Let's show people this isn't chaos. Lets roll with this, and show people its not a plague, show them it can be done responsibly. Lets keep the underground, underground...  Lets let the people who ACTUALLY NEED THIS STUFF get it publicly. 

A lot of them do now. For some reason, they pay as much as I do in AZ for weed. How is this happening? Why doesnt the CEO for pfizer make rap videos? Well, because hes not a moron I guess... 

Pot has two faces. Medical and recreational. Recreational face is a drunken 22 year old, while medicals face is a 60 year old chemo patient. Recreational's face is effing it up for EVERYONE. The recreational side it whats always attacked  Don't believe me? Ever see the commercial of the guy who gets high and runs over a girl on a bike? They neglect to mention how many people get drunk and run over girls on bikes. (I like to get drunk, but I don't drive, I am capable of responsible drinking.)

If you grow pot for medicinal purposes, you are providing a service to people. You are spending your time and money to produce a good that has a specific need for people. You are entitled to a profit. This discussions foundation boils down to what type of profit you are entitled to. When you get "black market" prices for this service, you are just as guilty as anyone selling pot to high schoolers. So the fundamental argument is "What is a legitimate profit in this business?" I don't have any answers for that one. 

If you can make 2 million bucks a year growing pot, somethings wrong. Farmers don't make that kind of money. 

The only way to determine legitimate prices, is to legalize it for everyone. Then let the free market determine the price, not the black market. Unfortunately, with Cali, it is a much different situation. 

Last election, of the three states with medical marijuana on the ballot, (NV, CO, and SD) South Dakota was the closest of any of passing it (49% to 51%) My parents voted no on it. They really wanted to vote yes, but the bill made it legal to smoke MJ anywhere tobacco can be smoked. That's what turned them off. How many MMJ patients do you know that would "demand" the right to smoke their medicine in public? Practically ZERO. Thats the heart of this debate. Lets get it legal in our own homes. WHO CARES ABOUT PUBLIC?!  Im a free market person. (and ron paul supporter) I dont think the gov has any right to dictate your business decisions. If you dont want people to smoke pot in your bar, just say no. It's that simple. It's your business... But this bill would mean that every business that allowed smoking cigarettes would have to allow MJ. Thats just retarded. 

This issue is obviously clouded by 1000's of different things, legally, and morally. Let's focus on people that it helps first. That vet with PTSD, who cant sleep at all, unless he smokes a joint before bed. The chemo patient, who feels like they have the worst flu ever, after every treatment. Lets exploit that. Honestly. Lets show the world that, "Hey, Pot isnt bad, its not bad at all!" The recreational use will follow. Cali is focused on people it helps right now, not [email protected]'s that make rap videos, and black market profits. 

Sell your crop to CA dispensaries, but ask yourself first, "Am I making a black market profit, or a reasonable profit?" You should already know the answer. And make sure the dispensary you sell it to knows the answer as well....


Hope this made sense... Peace and love to everyone!


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## Fadeux (May 6, 2008)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Great reading!
> 
> The reason I posted this is it is a MAJOR issue here in Nor-Cal. These clowns were str8 out for profit, as ALL POT CLUBS ARE, don't be fooled. There is no clubs in the Bay Area that pay more then $4000 a lb., but yet they still sell eighths for $60. Do the math. It's the whole fact that he wanted to become a rapper and flaunt it to the "man". And the video sealed their fate, imho. Now, when MMJ is brought up around here , these fools are what is brought up. They put us back 10 years.



4k a pound? Really? Im in the wrong freakin business... Grow it, Sell it, Enjoy it! But lets keep the black market out of this...


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## NorCalHal (May 6, 2008)

Great reading Fad!

I am suprised that other states allow minors to become MMJ patients. That is not the case here in Cali. I do understand that the clubs MUST make money. They have MANY high priced lawyers on retainers waiting for the "man" to kick the doors in. Even tho it is legal in the states eyes, the feds still are not having it.

When the club I brought up got busted, the "man" kept the store open that day and busted everyone coming in. They got 3 guys who were bringing in herb to sell. One good thing was none of the "customers" did time, just big fines and Community Service.

4000 a lb. is pretty much going rate both in the clubs and on the street. I do know of folks getting a little higher prices on the street, but no more than 4800.

And to get 4000 from the clubs, it had better be DANK. Outdoor prices are around 1500-2500 lb. 

Legitimate profits. You are correct sir, how do you define this? What I see here is supply and demand. Right now, we are in a sellers market. The clubs pretty much pay what folks ask, up to around the 4000 mark. But come october/november, the clubs will dictate what they want to pay. That is because they become SLAMMED with tons (and I mean tons) of cheap outdoor. This lasts about 2-3 months, then everyone gets sick of the "outdeezy" and go back to the Indoor dank.

We see alot of "beesters" here too. That is the commercial brought in from British Columbia. It is strickly ran by Oriental gangsters and the smoke sux. You can get BC smoke for under 1500 lb. They tried hard as hell to break into the club market to no avail. I give the clubs credit for that. Those are the folks that need to be pushed out.

All in all, all the clubs I have dealt with are pretty cool. This was the first one that was obviously ran by wanna be thugs. But don't get me wrong, the one that got busted was probably the smallest of all the clubs I have seen. I know clubs that make a mil a week. No Joke.


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## Fadeux (May 7, 2008)

The "Kids" I've seen news stories about, were actually in cali. Maybe they were over 18. I don't know prop 215 that well, but I know there are people in cali bringing weed into public schools and using MMJ as the excuse. Debating if this is right or wrong isn't the real issue to look at. IMHO, its a bad thing, it does us no good. Even if a kid has full blown cancer/aids, and marijuana is their only salvation, let them leave school once or twice a day to take their medicine. If you're healthy enough to even go to school, you can leave to smoke your meds...

Like I've said, I love hollands system. Its not legal, but its tolerated. Im no lawyer, and I don't know their laws, but I do know a few things about the culture. I actually asked a cop there if I could smoke a joint in public. I'd heard too many people tell me, "Only in coffee shops." He looked at me like I asked him if it was legal to take a dump there. "Of course," he said very quickly and went on his way. However, it's considered rude by the dutch to smoke in public. In fact, most Dutch people I know have never actually smoked in their lives. They just don't care if YOU smoke. Could a better system be possible? I'm told its illegal so the police can deal with people causing problems. Shop owners can only sell so much, and they are VERY strict at regulating that themselves. I tried to buy 5 grams of peacemaker with a friend of mine, and the shopkeep clarified, "This is not just for you, it is for you and your friend." (A friend was with me) 

Pot is everywhere in amsterdam, but the people who run the shops take it very seriously. VERY seriously. They have a limit they can sell to one person, and they will NOT break it. I saw on a "Dan Rather Reports" a guy was  able to get MMJ for himself, and a caregivers card for his dog. (that way he could buy twice as much) It happened to be an undercover dea guy. 

Fortunately, he couldn't touch the doctor, that is up to the medical board. But that doctor isn't doing us any favors. A dog needs pot? Now it's a circus. Thanks doc.... 

There are quite a few people out there that are helped by marijuana. This has always been my philosophy. Lets say that EVERY SINGLE MMJ patient IS LYING. Lets say the medical evidence is all bullcrap. Who are they hurting? I'm not for a second saying that they are bullcrapping (man I hate how this site makes me use that term...) but lets, for the sake of argument, just say they are. They arent hurting anyone! Not a soul. They smoke their medicine, and it makes their lives better. So they say. Well, they can say whatever they want. We live in AMERICA. We are supposed to be free. As long as they are not bothering you, me, or anyone else, they should be allowed to do WHATEVER THEY SEE FIT TO HELP THEMSELVES. Period. It ends there. The mass profits, and recreational use are a side car to this issue. Legalize it tomorrow, and the only people who will smoke, ARE THE PEOPLE WHO ALREADY SMOKE. It won't change society. (unless we have jetpacks  ) 

If you cant drink responsibly, go directly to jail, if you can't smoke responsibly, go directly to jail. I'm not saying this is right, but its a compromise. 

Show me 3 guys getting high in their basement, and I'll show you three guys who aren't causing any trouble!


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## NorCalHal (May 16, 2008)

Well, they had thier day in court and the Jury reached a Guilty Verdict on most counts. One count hass a 20year manditory minimum.

http://www.medicalmarijuanaofamerica.com/content/view/220/119/


As much as I disagree with how they operated, they should not get 20-life.


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## NorCalHal (Nov 22, 2008)

Well, the drama is over. 

A little background.

I knew both of these cats very well. Lukes brother is a good friend of mine. I am saddened for his family.

Even though I disaggreed with Luke and how he operated his club, and the cats he had in volved, thiere sentence was out of hand.

Friday afternoon, Luke was sentenced to 22 years, and rRck got 20 years for operating a MMJ dispensary. All Federal time.

This will now open the door for the Feds to shut down California dispensaies, giveing them the precedent they need. Sad Day in Cali


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## nvthis (Nov 23, 2008)

Kinda funny but when we were paying 4+ dollars a gallon for gasoline, and the petrolium companies were turning in record profits every quarter, I don't remember any of them doing 20+ years.


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## Fadeux (Nov 25, 2008)

Yup, this is a no-win situation for anyone...


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## PUFF MONKEY (Nov 25, 2008)

gayest.....video...ever!!!!!....but at least they are in a fed joint...they are wayyyyy nicer than state prisons......i've been in both...sadly , there is NO parole in the federal penal system...thats a minimum 15 on a 20


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

The rap commercials were out of hand I dont believe they deserved the time but I also think giving back there dispenserie would be very dishonest like norcal said there not the only dispenserie in the San Joaquin valley by far and to plain advertise about it was pure genius to DEA in convicting them I do hope they get a deal from the DA if its not to late 20 years is a long time in prison for just distributing marijuana even on a large scale nothing more 8 years anything more would have not been fair.


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## PUFF MONKEY (Nov 25, 2008)

Unconstitutional
Written by Stephanie, on 2008-05-16 13:09:42
It is unconstitutional to prosecute and imprison caregivers that are following state laws. Hopefully, Americans will take back our right to govern ourselves through the state (see the Constitution, Amendment 10). Only then will American's truly be free from this oppressive government controlled by the power elites. A special thanks to Scarmazzo and Montes for their continued fight for American rights.


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## HydroManiac (Nov 25, 2008)

Im trying to become a medical care giver and i still go around feeling marijuana is illegal even though I got my club card you know??


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## Icex420 (Nov 25, 2008)

HydroManiac said:
			
		

> Im trying to become a medical care giver and i still go around feeling marijuana is illegal even though I got my club card you know??



According to the country's government it is..


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## NorCalHal (Nov 25, 2008)

Being a caregiver and doing what these cats did are two different things Hydro, so don't trip too hard man. As long as you keep it stealth and don't open a storefront in the SJ Valley, you will be fine. The SJ Valley is simply not ready yet for this type of "scene". That is what is sad. You can go an hour west to the Yay Area and the "scene" is totally different.


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## painterdude (Nov 25, 2008)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Well, the drama is over.
> 
> A little background.
> 
> ...



Hey NorCalHal........did you know their lawyers?.....are they connected?....the 'big guy' is giving out pardons right now......WOW can't imagine doing that amount of time.....one night in Orange County was enough for me......I have a 'get out of jail free card'.....and I wish all of you had one too.......I am sorry for your friends and their family members.....but kaka does happen......painterdude


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