# help identifying deficiencies, 3 plants



## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 7, 2012)

i am growing 
1xjack 33
1xwhite siberian
1xsour ak
they were planted about 35 days ago but due to ph issues they have been slowed down alot they were seedlings for a long time starting to grow now though still slow. 

the jack 33 seems like it has a N deficiency especially on the lower leaves and maybe still ph problems but im not sure, see pics 1 and 2. last runoff on all pots was around 6.5-6.6 when watering with 6.8 water last friday when they were transplanted into these 2.65 gallon pots, i wont be able to check again till they dry out a bit more the bottom most leaf on this looks like nute burn a bit in the photos but it isnt just half of the leaf has turned yellow.
they dont look quite so lime colored under natural light but still too light for normal. also the leafs seem strange not glossy.










 the white siberian is the smallest and has a few dark spots along the vein on some fan leaves im not sure what this would be it also shows patchy green starting out lower down. see pic 3.





the sour ak seems prettymuch fine other than a set or two of leaves at the bottom which are a little yellow.

these are all in a  3x3 tent with a 400 watt MH in cooltube, well ventilated, temps stay around 70-80 during the day and 70-60 during the night, feeding with 3 part general hydroponics nutes at recommended levels. 

i have epsom salts, ph up/down, a bottle of magnesium in the post which should be here tomorrow and some garden lime(not sure if dolomite, ingredients are "screened limestone, neutralising value 45%, total passing through 150 micron sieve") 

i have looked through deficiency threads etc but i just cant tell, would you think it is still the effects of lockouts due to the ph problems.
what should i do to help these get growing properly 
any help appreciated.


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## Hushpuppy (May 7, 2012)

Those girls don't look too bad brother. I suspect you may have a little bit of upset roots from the transplant(but I wouldn't swear to that) They look like they just haven't been eating well for a while now. I guess that is a result of the PH issue that you say you had, It probably stunted the root growth which kept them from feeding properly. I would suggest that you make up a diluted nute solution and foliar feed them for a couple weeks. I would say take your normal nuted solution and cut it to 1/4 strength with water and put in a spray bottle that has a good atomizer on it(sprays a real fine mist) and spray them pretty good(get them dripping wet) right when the lights go out for their night. Be careful to not soak them while the lights are on them as that can cause burn spots to form. If you run yer lights 24hrs then you can cut half of them off or spray then cut them off for 2 hrs so that they can dry before the lights come back on. Hope this helps friend


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 8, 2012)

cheers hushpuppy, yeh i just wanted to catch anything before it got too bad. 
i bought a new pressure spray bottle there with a decent atomizer ill give the foliar feeding a shot, how often would you foliar feed? i just usually water by soil wet/dryness. 

im using a 20/4 lightcycle till the switch anyway.


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## Hushpuppy (May 8, 2012)

I would foliar feed them once per light cycle when the lights go out.


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## getnasty (May 8, 2012)

Foliar feedings are generally recommended in the morning, from what I've read. I've read on these boards that a lot of the members here don't recommend foliar feedings at all. It's not that they're hazardous to your plant or anything, but many have seen little to no benefit in doing so. Me, personally, it gives me the illusion that I'm doing something to take care of my girls as it just seems like I'm doing nothing but letting them do their things most of the time and I wanted to feel a bit more involved during the vegetative process.

I foliar with my own mixture during the vegetative stage only. I mix a half strength feeding of Fox Farm Grow Big, full strength feeding of Thrive Alive, and 1 TBSP of Cal-Mag. It started out as an experiment, but soon became something that I incorporated into daily care of my girls. I have had no nutrient deficiencies, and very little nutrient burn (in fact, the only time the plants have been burned is when I gave them a heavier feeding/watering than normal) so I can only assume that my foliar feedings are doing absolutely nothing for the plants in their vegetative growth, or theyre doing everything right. I did notice that my cuttings seemed to root faster than people here said they should. Like 3-4 days faster. But it's hard to say that my thrive alive foliar feeding is what caused this. The strain could just be extremely easy to clone.

Got a little side tracked there. Just figured I'd throw it out there that foliar feedings, from everythign that I've read, should be conducted in the morning. Myself, personally, I did them twice a day. Once in the morning and once at night, soaked from top to bottom. The moisture was gone from the leaves within half an hour after the foliar spray, if not sooner than that.

As Hush said, don't foliar spray right under your HID. It'll magnify the light and burn your plants. I found with light mistings, it doesnt do this, even under the HID light, but if you're going to soak your plants, you're going to have puddles form up, and the droplet puddles will burn. If I'm going to foliar in the morning, I pull the plants from underneathe the light by a foot or so, spray them, let them dry a little bit, and then move them back. At night, if I foliar before the lights go off, I don't have to do that.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 8, 2012)

cheers for the info hushpuppy and getnasty, ill get on it. 

the pots take a good while to dry out anyway so id say this is the only way theyll get enough food for a while without drowning them and causing further problems.
thanks

ill probably feed at night since my dark time is only 4 hours its close enough to morning too and im not usually awake when the lights come on.


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## Growdude (May 8, 2012)

Are you giving them nutes now?
If so how much and how often?


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 8, 2012)

hey growdude they were in small 5 inch pots till last week as i was still fixing ph issues, in them i watered/fed when dry probably about every 3-4 days and was giving 5ml grow 5ml micro 2.5ml bloom per gallon but a little less earlier on, ive just been following the general hydros schedule. i last watered with nutes when i transplanted on friday i think and since then have just been letting them dry out as i already have root problems. i was going to up it this feeding, do you disagree with foliar feeding being my best bet?


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## Growdude (May 8, 2012)

Bogart Mc Thunderdunk said:
			
		

> i was going to up it this feeding, do you disagree with foliar feeding being my best bet?


 
No not at all.  In fact if you think the roots could be a bit damaged I wouldnt up the nutes just try the foiler feed, if they start taking off then up it.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 8, 2012)

yeh i agree, i was thinking of upping it before the thought of foliar feeding sorry it came out confusingly i just read back over it there.. ill stick to quarter strength for now as hushpuppy said unless recommended otherwise, cheers for the interest anwyay.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 8, 2012)

what would you ph it to? just wondering if it doesnt count as soil since its not really. the nutes added to my water bring it to 6.6 without any changes made so far.
the soil is probably on the acidic side if this matters, i have been raising it slowly.


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## Hushpuppy (May 8, 2012)

If you are asking about the ph of the foliar feed water, I would say around 6.8-7.0 as this doesn't affect the roots which have to have the specific PH setting.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 8, 2012)

yeh thats it exactly, just getting used to ph'ing in general wasnt sure if there was an uptake range for foliar like hydro soiless etc, thanks alot.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 15, 2012)

the photos are growing but slowly, still foliar feeding nightly with 1/4 strength GH3 nutes. there are alot of roots coming through the bottom of the pots but the plants are around 7/8 inches tall with 7/8 nodes, i would have expected more growth by now, the pots are near dry now so i may water with phd water and check runoff incase it has drifted back down again. day 47 btw
any thoughts?
wasting my time?


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## Hushpuppy (May 15, 2012)

I think they are coming along fine. They nare a little limey looking(pardon the pun), and I say you need to up the nutrients (to the soil)at this point if you are seeing roots. They look like they are quite hungry but still look healthy at the same time. You have very good and tight node spacing which will serve you. If you have been soil feeding as well as foliar feeding then I would say increase it to double. If you haven't been soil feeding then add nutes but don't increase till the next feeding, *and* keep foliar feeding for another week as this should give them a little jump start. 

How tall do you want to get them? do you intend to LST all of them?


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 15, 2012)

ah good, was getting anxious. the soil has a tiny bit of ferts in it as a part of the soil i mixed up was prenuted but very little i will start feeding again.

im not really sure on height, the tent i have is 6 and a half feet tall and 3.3 feet wide/deep. counting equipment and pots id say i have four feet from soil to work with depending on how close the cooltube can get.
i have only grown photos outdoors before so ive never had to consider the stretch. i was planning on bending these over a week or so from flipping to half their height. reading grow logs of these strains (what little i could find) i read the white siberian stretch about twice the height and nearer three times for the j33though i have only been able to find one of each so hard to tell. also one with the sour ak not stretching too much but that grow was flowered early.so maybe no lst for the sour ak some for the WS and more for the J33
the easyryders will be done in around a month maybe a few weeks more so there will be more space.
the fan keeps temps around 75 pretty well so far i think i could get it lower if needed with a few intake adjustments if that factors in during a crowded flower though ill be switching to a hps 600watt(seems like stoned ramblings to me but just incase).
what would you recommend?


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## Hushpuppy (May 16, 2012)

Sounds like you have a good plan so far. I agree that letting them get a little taller then bending them over would be good. After you bend them over, let them have a week or two to get the secondary growth going good then flip them when they are about 12"-16" tall. I would be afraid to go any higher than that with the stretching that will occur. When you switch over to the 600w you will definitely need to watch the heat. Keep the air moving through the tent at a good rate to constantly pull out the heat. As long as it doesn't get over 80, your in good shape. Over 85 and the buds will suffer and get airy. 75 is an ideal temp for them.

I would suspect that you will end up with a sea of green by the end of it from the bushing that will occur from bending them over, but it will make them produce nicely. This is just my personal like, but I like to put a "fence" or "net" over my girls while they are growing so that when they stretch upwards, they will grow up through it and will be supported when the buds get heavy (although, if they are more sativa dominant and produce only nugget buds rather than the "donkey Kong" indica buds you may not need that).


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 17, 2012)

cheers ill do that. the fan i have is too much for the tent so i think i should be ok and if not i have my old one to add about 100cfm ontop of that anyway. ill have a read through your grows and check out the netting if its in them. i  might do that though the stalks are pretty stiff already on them from fans(or genetics?) ill have to lst slowly. also i will probably have to move them once or twice from room to room just as im growing in a spare bedroom, any guests screw things up. 
fed them one full strength feed yesterday and today they have an extra inch or so in height so maybe they just needed a break to grow roots. seeing the starts of alternating nodes too so much happier.

thanks alot youve been a big help, ill be back with more complaints if i need to


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## Hushpuppy (May 17, 2012)

Yeah, glad to hear they are starting to grow, that is a good sign that they are back on track. If they are stout branches then a top fence shouldn't be needed. Having to move them is going to be a pain once they are in flower. Hope that doesn't have to happen. If you need anymore help just give us a shout


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 20, 2012)

yeh i know, itd be much easier to just tell people as none would really care but im in the school of thought of tell no one if they dont need to know so ill have to bear the burden and hassle to keep it that way otherwise disappear for months at a time. all other rooms wouldnt have adequate ventilation/privacy etc. ill just try to keep it to a minimum

one last question if youre bothered(or anyone) just doesnt seem worth starting a new thread with all the info here.

 they are all darkening to a normal shade and much better growth still speeding up but they are still in 2.65 gallon pots. with the planned flip around 12-16" would they end up rootbound before harvest with this space or should i transplant now before its a problem. im just a  bit apprehensive of doing that again due to all the problems i had with soil/transplant. i have some soil i made up that i tested and came out around 6.5 composed of just some cheap seedling starter potting soil with added perlite in it. made it up incase i was going to scrap this and start again basically.

would they do well in the 2.65 pots or is that much too little?


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## Hushpuppy (May 20, 2012)

Hey no worries about additional questions on this thread, after all it is your thread to begin with. Ask away 

As for the 2.65gal pots. That is tough to say as I am in hydro and my plants are in 2liter pots and can get as tall as 1.5m. They get very rootbound but since I am feeding them constantly, it doesn't seem to bother them. I would think since you aren't depending on the soil to feed them and are instead feeding them yourself, they should be fine even if they get rootbound. It seems like to me that plants that get rootbound and begin to struggle are those that depend on the soil to feed them rather than the addition of manual feeding. They run out of room for the soil to help them and then when nutes are added, there isn't enough "stuff to hold the nutes in place for the plants to be able to take it in. 

I would say that if they get rootbound in flower and start to falter then lower the nute amount by 1/3 and feed twice as often so that are getting a constant supply of nutrients. Just make sure to aerate the solution for 24hrs before adding it to the plants so that they stay oxygenated since they will be staying wet more.


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## Bogart Mc Thunderdunk (May 20, 2012)

true.. good stuff ill go with that anyway. i already aerate the water so thats that covered i guess ill just top up the pots to the rim and hope for the best.
cheers:aok:


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