# ? on topping



## maryjane22 (Nov 15, 2007)

okay i know what topping is but exactly how do u do it..where exactly do you top?


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## Mutt (Nov 15, 2007)

Hope this helps a lil.


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Nov 15, 2007)

may I?...

just go down the stem from the top of the plant about 3 branches and take your top from there. at around 3 - now... what you _preferrably_ want to do is make your cut right above where 2 branches are generally close together - some are closer together and some are further apart... you want to make your *diagnal* cut with a sterilized razor or pair of scissors (spelling?) _alchohol_ 
so if you make it at the 4th or 5th "node" it's ok... just make it at a close-together node cuz these will both become new tops in that case.


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## maryjane22 (Nov 16, 2007)

okay and when can i do this in veg or in flower..does it make a difference


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## md.apothecary (Nov 16, 2007)

let me show you. 

PIC 1 AND 2 you will see the regular plant BEFORE topping

PIC 3 shows MY method of topping. This is simply to pluck the baby leaflets on the innerside. I do NOT cut a whole top of a plant, the recovery is MUCH longer and can stunt growth. is my topping tweezers. FYI - PINCHING is a form of "topping".

PIC 4 is the plucked piece from the plant

No point in doing this in flower mode in my opinion because you're not trying to split branches here, you're trying to grow flowers. If you take away the energy to flower, you will most likely end up with less. Do it before you flower.

PIC 5 6 7  - The results of the plant after a few days of recovery. The main stem has branched into two new main stems.  The NEW growth is the lighter green stems, not the purple stems.


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## Mutt (Nov 16, 2007)

Added to the growing resources page.  Thanks guys. :aok:


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Nov 16, 2007)

That crazy vancouver guy said:
			
		

> may I?...
> 
> just go down the stem from the top of the plant about 3 branches and take your top from there. at around 3 - now... what you _preferrably_ want to do is make your cut right above where 2 branches are generally close together - some are closer together and some are further apart... you want to make your *diagnal* cut with a sterilized razor or pair of scissors (spelling?) _alchohol_
> so if you make it at the 4th or 5th "node" it's ok... just make it at a close-together node cuz these will both become new tops in that case.


 
I need to add to my method here... I forgot to mention about using my topped piece to make a clone for another mother plant. that's what I was initionaly describing how to top the plant. I thought the person was asking how to make a clone by topping the plant. k... I'm done for now... gunna go fire up again. later....


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## 85cannabliss (Nov 16, 2007)

hey i top my plant just like MD, it seems to be the best way. you are just stopping the plant still in height, the new growth is the side branches growing faster. and those 2 new colas are just side branches. but they form your new top colas.


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## Ethan-2.6- (Jan 28, 2008)

I like MD's way of doin it. So the tiny leaves in the middle of the top leaf u pluck? And also generally... can u top more than once? using leaves u already topped? And does LST only occur once when ur first bend the plant? Or do u do it periodically?


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## Mr. Bubbles (Jan 28, 2008)

Why take the top 3 branches down? Why not top sooner, sounds like you wasting growth.
Are you taking into account cloning the top?
I just top when it looks like it can be taken off cleanly, is there advantages to 3 branches down I am missing?


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## headband (Jan 28, 2008)

not just the leaves, but all the new growth, yes you can top more than once, i have a grapefruit plant that has 5 tops


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## headband (Jan 28, 2008)

mr bubbles,  less bud sites, those are branches that fatty nugs would be on, if you let more than three grow, i let mine go around 10 branchs before i topped


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## headband (Jan 28, 2008)

sry it wont let me edit posts, heres the 5 top


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## octobong007 (Jan 28, 2008)

maryjane22 said:
			
		

> okay and when can i do this in veg or in flower..does it make a difference


personally, in veg is your time for topping unless you want some funky bud...yes, it will grow like that.  you can make your bud looked like a freak of nature.
if your wanting alot of tops, how long your vegitation is will determine how much you can top...i got a beautiful lady with 12 main stems, she looks awesome...kept her short too, about 15 inches total height.  top away dude, just make sure you let her heal and you'll be fine.
edited:  pretty lady there headband


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## Mr. Bubbles (Jan 28, 2008)

headband said:
			
		

> mr bubbles, less bud sites, those are branches that fatty nugs would be on, if you let more than three grow, i let mine go around 10 branchs before i topped


 
Thanks of the info, the post I was referring to said down from the top 3 branches. I just wanted to know why allow the 3 additional branches to form only to be removed.

I topped my first plant at the 5th node, but in the thinking above I should of grown it to 8 nodes to top at the 5th.  Interesting read none the less.


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## headband (Jan 28, 2008)

you wouldn't want to top 3 branches down either, then you loose those three top branch nugs. maby i just dont understand what your saying.


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## headband (Jan 28, 2008)

top in veg only, unless you want crap buds that look weird from all the stress like octo said


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## Mr. Bubbles (Jan 28, 2008)

headband said:
			
		

> you wouldn't want to top 3 branches down either, then you loose those three top branch nugs. maby i just dont understand what your saying.


 
I am not saying anything, just repeating what someone else wrote above and you misinterputed because it sounded odd.   

I to would advise against topping in flower, I tried and it shocked the **** out of the plant. The yield was pathetic to say the least.


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## the widowmaker (Jan 28, 2008)

I personally have never found a benefit to yield from topping.

Over the time i've been on various forums, i've noticed that a lot of people will always advise you not to take fan leaves off, as they are a source of energy for the plant.

Well if you take off the top and the top 3 nodes then surely your losing more than just taking the fan leaves.

I personaly have had similar effects to topping by just removing key fan leaves at important time to let light through to the lower bud sites to let them develop.

I had some northern lights and I didn't top at all, i just removed fan leaves that were blocking light of these lower bud sites and they soon rose up and blossomed.

To lose out on the main cola which is worth 2 ounces or more could be a costly mistake in my opinion.

I grant that at times and certain situations it will work better for some people, mixing a topping with a scrog will get a great yield for a closet grower.

Don't take this as me hating, just saying


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## longtimegrower (Jan 28, 2008)

Some plants grow really bushy and there is no need to top but others grow straight up with very few limbs and if you don`t top them they may grow to tall and get top heavy and damage the plant. Topping slows down the hight of the plant and lets the main stem grow stronger. In other cases you can keep a plant from growing tall enough to be seen over your fence or from reaching the top of your grow area. Yield may not be the only reason for toping or not toping. I may not be able to grow a 7 foot tall plant in my flower bed without it being seen but i might can grow a 2 foot one that i keep topping through out the summer untill it starts budding. Everyone always want`s too take sides on weather it makes more bud when what we should look at is that topping is a great stealth  alternitive. Slim


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## octobong007 (Jan 29, 2008)

i'm with ya on your thoughts longtimegrower.  with my own reasons, the bottom line is its what i want to do.  some may say it wont work, well they need to do alot more research and experimentation on their own.  i like to top every chance i get for 3 weeks to a month, then let her grow another month.  all that vegitation on a plant with 12 to 20 main stems, i think it looks cool...and those ladies are MINE.  just have fun with your grow, if its like work, you probly shouldn't be growing.  this opinion is mine and mine only, but in the event someone wants to borrow it, i give my permission with the understand that i am not liable what is done with it, or whom it may be used on.  lmao, have fun bro's and sis's, aint that what its all about?  smell dat funk in dah air baby...yeaaaaaaaa


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## md.apothecary (Jan 29, 2008)

Space is the limitation. I like to grow in more confined areas instead of a large area to utilize the lights more. Micro growing for me produces just as much as large area growing, but with less overall costs. Plus, instead of hassling with a single  large plant the risk of something happening to it is greater for me than having multiple topped plants.

I top my plants because they like to run for the light and by topping, it's easier IMO than doing LST and having string and bent branches and such all over the place. 

My method of topping is by pinching instead of removal of the nodes. I simply pluck and pull, so technically, it's not actually loosing anything, but building a bushier plant for the colas. In the long run, a double branched plant that forks at the top will create two large colas that DO produce more than a single stalked plant. But this is just in my own personal growing experiences. Differences will be discovered through trial and error, plus your conditions and strains play a large role in this as well.


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Jan 30, 2008)

the widowmaker said:
			
		

> I personally have never found a benefit to yield from topping.
> 
> Over the time i've been on various forums, i've noticed that a lot of people will always advise you not to take fan leaves off, as they are a source of energy for the plant.
> 
> ...


  

I'm with you Widow...I say don't top.... but possibly pinch if it's a height thing, less stress at the time and it accomplishes the same thing. If height is not the issue - DON'T TOP - IMHO. If you are doing a Bonsai, sure, especially to keep a mother short and bushy. I recommend a scrog grow for any height issues or LST to get a better yield.
PS. When you top you get smaller stems which means smaller buds, just a thought...in a scrog you get larger buds in a tight area without topping and hence a great yield.


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## md.apothecary (May 18, 2008)

I don't necessarily beleive that you get smaller stems by topping. You simply get MORE stems that are starting from square one instead of your main stem being the ONLY stem on the plant. The only reason it seems to give you more bud is because you have more nodes on the single stem when you don't top than when you do because you're removing those nodes when you cut. However, I don't think this is necessarily why you get more bud. I think it has to do with maturity of the split stems after topping.

If you were to top/pinch earlier on, and allow for more maturing of the new growth, you'd come out probably better than a single stem. You'd end up with two new stems of bud, plus your main stem of bud as well, plus any additional internodes along the way. 

:woohoo:

I'll have to see what Jorge says and let you in on it later


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## md.apothecary (May 18, 2008)

Jorge Cervantes says....

PRUNING
Does topping the main bud slow down plant growth? Does it affect other buds and knock them back from their full potential? 


Pruning or topping plants redirects their growth hormones. By pruning selectively, you manipulate auxin hormone levels in branch and flower tips. Removing a branch or branch tip causes hormonal balances to shift. Cutting the meristem (top growth tip) of a cannabis plant will diffuse hormones (auxins) and cause greater concentrations in lower branch tips, which will cause lower buds to gain girth and weight.

Always use clean instruments when pruning. A sharp pair of pruners will work best in this case. Sanitize clippers and blades between cuts by dipping in rubbing alcohol. After pruning, the open wound invites diseases and pests. Wash your hands and tools before and after pruning. Make cuts at a 45-degree angle to discourage moisture from sitting on wounds. When you prune during flowering, floral hormones are diffused and flowering is retarded. It takes a month or longer for hormones to build up to pre-pruning concentrations.

Remove spindly branches and growth that is not collecting light energy, including dead and dying leaves. Pruning lower branches concentrates auxins in upper branches, which forces growth upwards. Cut lower branches off cleanly at the stem so no stub is left to rot and attract pests and diseases. If you must harvest a little smoke prematurely, removing a few lower branches will diminish the harvest the least. Pruning out spindly branches and growth inside plants opens up the interior and provides more and better air circulation. It also allows light to reach deeper inside plants.


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## massproducer (May 18, 2008)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> If you were to top/pinch earlier on, and allow for more maturing of the new growth, you'd come out probably better than a single stem. You'd end up with two new stems of bud, plus your main stem of bud as well, plus any additional internodes along the way.


 
This is just not true, if you top your plant the two braches below your cut become your two new main stems.  Your main stem does not grow back.  

Topping, LSTing or whatever training method you use is only as good as your availible space.  It is all about your space, lighting and plant numbers.  IMHO, Topping is beneficial for a mother plant, but there are other training methods that are superior to topping to maximize your availible space and lighting, while keeping plant numbers at a minimum.  I am a fan of Lsting and SCROG as the gaurantees an even canopy while topping doesn't and requires some sort of other training to go along with it.  

I always lillipop my plants to create better air flow, and free up energy the plants can use to create bigger buds.

To make a long story short topping, lsting or whatever can only improve your yeild if you are not maximizing your space.


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## Old Hippie (Jul 6, 2008)

-and my girls are over 8 ft tall. with 2 main branches. you can even tell where i toped now, its a V shaped knot in the middle of my plants.

The pic is where I top Her in early june


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## JogaBonito521 (Aug 13, 2008)

When is the earliest you can top a plant?


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## andy52 (Aug 14, 2008)

excuse me for being new,but doesn't topping give you more colas in the long haul.you top and you get 2 main colas,right?i topped 4 of my plants when they were 2 weeks old and they are some healthy looking,fat and sassy plants.started to say girls,hope so.lol


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## dman1234 (Aug 14, 2008)

Im far from an expert but i have had alot of success toping, maybe im simplifing but i just cut the top off when its  at about 10-12 inchs, make a clone out of it and it bushes rite out, i have had no issues indoor or out. JMO


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Aug 14, 2008)

JogaBonito521 said:
			
		

> When is the earliest you can top a plant?


 
you can top a plant any time... within reason, of course... (you can't top a 4" seedling...)

I did supercrop a 4" clone in my 400ml beerglass grow, though....


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## Klicks (Nov 23, 2008)

Many, many thanks for this info.  It's the best info I've picked up today.  I'm getting ready to set up and am hoping for the best.


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## New_2_Chronic (Nov 23, 2008)

Hey MD.Apothecary.

To correct you a little the method you do is not actually topping, Its Fimming, which is actually different. IMO I have done both and they both have different results.

Topping results in multiplication of the growing tops, it also encourages bottom branching. Fimming, as you have shown usually just stoops growth from the top and makes the bottom of the plant branchy and bushy. If you do not remove enough of the new growth with FIM you will still wind up with only on top, just the plant will be bushier.

Both of these methods work well in controlling height, and increase budsites which increases yield. Yes I said id does incease yield. Its true when your main cola is intact it weighs a might hefty portion of the plants yield, when you top you will have more smaller colas, instead of one larger one. These colas will have a greater overall weight than that of your single cola if not topped.

If you check out my journal I show Topping, Fimming, and Supercropping on 6 plants that are now under a SCROG 1 week into flower.


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## Jake2635 (May 2, 2009)

Thank u.. I a fristtimer this year,tired of buying b/s,thanks


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## Dankerz (May 2, 2009)

i grew this from seed..once she reached her 4/5 node i cut her back to/at the second node..after that i clipped leaves and branches here and there..she now 45 days old 4-5" tall and has 10 main tops. she is going to be a beast in a few weeks:hubba:


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## D3 (May 2, 2009)

I read this about 10 years ago. They said there are 2 ways of topping, md.apothecary nailed the first one. Second no one thouched on. I do this all the time & it works. Just pinch the top new growth HARD. Dont remove it. It dammages it much worse than just topping it & can cause 3 tops to grow instead of 2. It doesn't work all the time, but I get about 60% with 3 tops.


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## buzzby (Jun 3, 2009)

the widowmaker said:
			
		

> I personally have never found a benefit to yield from topping.
> 
> Over the time i've been on various forums, i've noticed that a lot of people will always advise you not to take fan leaves off, as they are a source of energy for the plant.
> 
> ...


Lol, I did the same thing, and one person on here... after i asked if i screwed up told me... I needed 2 do some serious reading, quit hacking up my plants, and pruning was only for people that knew what they were doing. I thought this person was rude as hell, and i was quite offened by the reply, but as i told people I am new, but in 2001 i grew some killer *** bud, and never topped the plantss, just pulled a few leaves off in the 1st 3 wks of vegitation, so this just goes to show people that they don't need to be topped. =) GREAT POST WIDOWMAKER


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## CoolAsAFan (Jun 3, 2009)

i think LST is the way to go for the average grower, topping should be more common for mass grows, as tying many plants would be dificult. with LST, you get the exact same benefits w/o inducing any stress. my 2 pennies


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## Newbud (Jun 3, 2009)

Topping and pinching so they grow as multiple equal height cola's, and do away with the smaller branches and shoots.
Get less srappy buds.
Probably better for sativa dom but only used it with my PP as yet.


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## blondeboy (Jun 7, 2009)

This is the best method by following these instructions.  I usually like to pinch the new growth first, w/o removing it, and  let it heal for a while. Your developing root growth when your pinching it and it allows the steam the stealth that it will need to carry the weigh of the bud.   It will branch out developing more fan leafs which will eventually become flowing sights.  Meanwhile,  3 extra top branches will rise up from the top, most of the time. When those new 3 branches mature to a stealth level, 3or 4 fan leafs down, carefully top them.  I eventually top those 3 new developing branches to make 3 times as many clones from pinching first.  But if you&#8217;re in a big hurry to light up a joint, don&#8217;t top just pinch!  It will take longer to flower, if you top it.


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## buzzby (Jun 7, 2009)

blondeboy said:
			
		

> This is the best method by following these instructions. I usually like to pinch the new growth first, w/o removing it, and let it heal for a while. Your developing root growth when your pinching it and it allows the steam the stealth that it will need to carry the weigh of the bud. It will branch out developing more fan leafs which will eventually become flowing sights. Meanwhile, 3 extra top branches will rise up from the top, most of the time. When those new 3 branches mature to a stealth level, 3or 4 fan leafs down, carefully top them. I eventually top those 3 new developing branches to make 3 times as many clones from pinching first. But if youre in a big hurry to light up a joint, dont top just pinch! It will take longer to flower, if you top it.


this is what i did today , just pinched the top and left it there:hubba: :hubba:


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## spliffkid (Aug 3, 2009)

It is important to know why you are topping your plant(s) before actually doing so. In some cases, topping a plant encourages additional sites from which 2 new pairs of vegetative shoots will be born from. If your light source is inadequate, then you may want to top your plants at a young age to encourage a shorter, more bushy looking plant. More times than not, people top or prune their plants because someone told them they need to do it. Nothing could be further from the truth here. Topping, like pruning, is a remedy for specific types or outcomes that one wishes to achieve. For God's sake, if you are outdoors, and have the space, let the individual plants genetics do their thing, and enjoy the variety of this most impressive and interesting species :holysheep:


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## smokeymcbuds (Aug 26, 2011)

hi im new to growing and this site ive been on all day reading and have got alot of insight ive read alot about LST but was wondering i toped my plant and now its about 5 1/2 weeks old i feel like the stem is to tuff to LST is there a real difference between HST or LST other than the wait for the plant to heal its wounds how many times can i do it before it really hurts the plant how long should i wait between tops


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## Hushpuppy (Aug 26, 2011)

The difference between HST and LST is in the name. HST(high stress training) involves cutting and breaking of the plant to achieve some result (typically slowing verticle growth or creating multiple stems and/or colas). 

This activity causes considerable stress to the plant and could concievably injure the plant to the point of stunting or even killing it. The key to HST is to do it when the plant is at its healthiest and in the strongest mode of growth so that it can handle the stress and heal itself. It also requires considerable knowledge and experience that can only be achieved by injuring and/or killing a given number of plants with this method  

I have literally _broken_ branches and bent them horizontal and came back a few days later expecting them to be dead, only to find that they healed themselves and had straightened back halfway upright. Young vegging MJ, when healthy, is very resilient.

Some people are not comfortable doing HST or just don't think it is necessary to achieve results when LST(low stress training) is a viable alternative. LST involves manipulating the plant in any way that does not do injury to the flesh of the plant. 

You can tie down a plant from its first week to its last without causing any stress. Even an older plant can be tied and bent as far as possible without breaking, and then adjusted more every few days until the plant is bent as far as desired. 

More often when a plant has grown too tall and stiff to bend, the upper portion and/or the longer side branches can be tied to allow more light penetration into the depths of the plant to encourage lower bud maturation.

In my opinion and experience, the best use of LST is when a plant is at 3-4 weeks old, it is bent over to encourage it to grow on a low diagnal. This allows and encourages all of the side branches to to grow upward, which when taller than the meristem, will be given the hormones that promote main cola growth and development.

There is another very good method that goes with this called "ScrOG". That is a "screen of green". By using a screen(with 1-3" holes) low over the growing plant, it is encouraged to grow horizontally beneath the screen, which allows equal light penetration to all of the plant. This also encourages the side branches and tertiary growth to reach for the light and become main colas.

Both LST and ScrOG are usefull methods for keeping a plant growing low and for maximizing the bud production of a single plant. I hope this gives you some perspective on these methods.


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## v35b (Aug 26, 2011)

Nice post HP. I've had to do a bit of bondage on my last two grows.


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## smokeymcbuds (Aug 27, 2011)

thanks that was helpful didnt know what scrog was so thanks for the ex


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## Sol (Aug 27, 2011)

i just posted this pic to show an example of lst on a young plant. This one has been in this position for about a week. I'm not sure of everyone practice but on young ones i like to give a few days rest ,untied, for a few days ,then re-adjust with a little more bend. I spose' you don't have to do that, but i do.
 Anyway, ....and she's about a month or so old.


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