# Your basic rights



## mrkingford

I've read some strange posts here about their rights so i thought i would post i few GUIDELINES as it's impossible for me to post every state law.
These things hold true in the USA.

The 5th amendment; The right to remain silent
The 4th amendment; The right to be free from; unreasonable searches and seizures

First lets review LEO entering a home;
1) LEO may enter a home after an arrest if the arrestee is occupying that residence, if their chasing a convict, to protect life or serious damage, and certain other instances like if the owner agrees or of course they have a warrant

A record of the search MUST be kept by LEO and you can DEMAND a copy.
You may be present during the ENTIRE search UNLESS it hinders their investagation.
If anything is seized, make sure to demand a copy of those items.


If you feel you are being arrested wrongfully, do not resist LEO, settle it later, NEVER RESIST as i read another poster did and was riped from his car and thrown to the ground and cuffed.

You see in the BILL OF RIGHTS their a part called "Preamble", it is the most important part of The Bill of Rights------The preamble which tells specifically that the Bill of Rights was to make sure the government KNEW it was limited to the powers stated in the Constitution and if it did'nt the amendments were rights of the people the government could'nt screw with.

The first 10 admendments are declaratory and restrictive clauses, this means they supercede all other parts of our constitution and restrict the powers of our constitution.


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## mrkingford

In short, if you KNOW inside and out your amendment rights they will be GOOD ENOUGH to protect you without tons of legal knowledge.
These 10 amendments over ride other parts of the constitution which LEO;aka; courts will TRY to use against you.
This is how many things wind up in SUPERIOR Court !


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## mrkingford

Misconceptions about Miranda rights;


True or false;    LEO must give you your Miranda Rights PRIOR to questioning you?
False
The Miranda warning is only in affect during a custodial interrogation.
Inother words the person being questioned is ALREADY in custody or BELIEVES he or she is NOT free to leave.

Remember, a police officer has NO authority to "cut a deal", only the D.A. does. As a matter of fact LEO only files charges, they need to be accepted by the da 1st. 
Even if you snitch for a deal it FIRST must be approved by the D.A.
If you exercise your Miranda rights and LEO asks you even one more question, he has violated your rights.


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## mrkingford

When arrested  a "complaint" is filed.
A complaint is an Affidavit sighned against you by your accuser.(LEO)
It must be presented to the DA, then;

An Indictment is a FORMAL accusation that identifies specific charges against you. ( the DA does this )

First court date is the Arraignment.  
This is a simple hearing informing you of the charges against you.
You plead guilty or not guilty, then ROR (released on your own recognizance) or bail is set.

( bail jumping is a seperate offence and NEARLY IMPOSSIBLE to defend )

Next comes the Preliminary hearing.
This is where the State puts on evidence to show their is cause to start a trial.
Heres where it gets complicated, next there is/can be;
Pre-trial procedures, plea bargining which is PRICELESS AND A GOOD attorney can use things such as;

A Huntley hearing which can suppress statements made to you by LEO

A Dunaway hearing which suppress statements on the grounds LEO did not have proper cause.

A Wade hearing which suppress identifacation

A MAPP hearing which suppress seized items on the ground LEO had no right to search your home,auto etc.

A SANDOVAL hearing insures that the DA cant use your past criminal record to smear your credibility

If no deals are worked out a trial is set.

If your convicted of a felony you lose some of your cival rights in addition to a possible cival suit.
It IS possible you get a "certificate of relief from cival disibilities that may relieve the effect of a felony conviction."


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## mrkingford

Oh my god, i feel like i'm back 7 years ago giving lectures to interns, lol.

There's a test later so be prepared, lol.............


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## mrkingford

P.S. 
These are USA laws..........................If your not from the USA please ignore the above, i have NO EXPERIENCE in other countries.


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## mrkingford

Next comes sentincing if your found guilty or plead guilty.

There are also Post sentincing hearings such as;

modifacation of sentence, restitution or appeal.

Your sentince will depend on several things such as;
the level of the crime, example;
Misdemeanor a,b,c,d,e    or felony a,b,c,d,e,

And precedent from former cases like yours in that State/county.

A pre-sentence investagation report is compiled for the judge and includes things such as;
past criminal record, family and financial circumstances, harm to the victim, circumstance of the offence and the VICTIMS can make written statements that usually impact the judges decision.

In some minor cases the judge may allow a "defferred Judgement" which means if the defendant completes a certain "time frame" or "classes" or whatever the judge states you will relieve your sentince and your record will be wiped clean like it NEVER happened.

If found guilty you can appeal but if acquitted the state CANT appeal !
Also there is the Appellate Court...................


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## mrkingford

Appellate Court

An Appellate Court is ANY court of Law that is empowered to hear an appeal of a trial court or lower tribunal. 
The court system is divided into 3 parts;
1) The trial court
2) The Appellate court
3) The supreme court

If you lose your Appellate appeal you can then appeal with the Supreme court as it has power over Appellate courts.

However the Supreme court is the LAST STOP !!!!!


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## mrkingford

Learn these and you'll be fine.


*Bill of Rights *

*Amendment I*


Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances. 
*Amendment II*



A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed. 
*Amendment III*



No soldier shall, in time of peace be quartered in any house, without the consent of the owner, nor in time of war, but in a manner to be prescribed by law. 
*Amendment IV*



The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized. 
*Amendment V*



No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation. 
*Amendment VI*



In all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the state and district wherein the crime shall have been committed, which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defense. 
*Amendment VII*



In suits at common law, where the value in controversy shall exceed twenty dollars, the right of trial by jury shall be preserved, and no fact tried by a jury, shall be otherwise reexamined in any court of the United States, than according to the rules of the common law. 
*Amendment VIII*



Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted. 
*Amendment IX*



The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people. 
*Amendment X*


The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people.


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## wmmeyer

Let me pose a hypothetical situation in order to ask a question about the appeal process:

A person is found guilty of an offense and is sentenced to, for example, 5 years in the state corrections.  The person files an appeal.  The next higher court hears the appeal, and decides that the judgment was faulty for some reason.  They can cancel the whole decision of the lower court and the guy goes free.  Right?

OK, so taking the same example, could the higher court in reviewing the lower court's decision find that the penalty was NOT enough, and sentence the guy to more than the original 5 years?  In other words, is the higher court bound by law to only find in favor of the appealer, or can it work both ways?


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## mrkingford

wmmeyer said:
			
		

> Let me pose a hypothetical situation in order to ask a question about the appeal process:
> 
> A person is found guilty of an offense and is sentenced to, for example, 5 years in the state corrections. The person files an appeal. The next higher court hears the appeal, and decides that the judgment was faulty for some reason. They can cancel the whole decision of the lower court and the guy goes free. Right?
> 
> OK, so taking the same example, could the higher court in reviewing the lower court's decision find that the penalty was NOT enough, and sentence the guy to more than the original 5 years? In other words, is the higher court bound by law to only find in favor of the appealer, or can it work both ways?


 
Short answer, NO, your sentence can't get worse.

The Appellate court is NOT there to give you a trial, that was already done. They SIMPLY decide if they are going to UPHOLD the ALREADY imposed sentence.
However, there CAN BE MANY things inbetween GOING to jail and appeal.
Toooooo many to get into without specifics in a case.
In order to get an Appellate appeal there must be sufficient cause for it, such as the forementioned.
Plus, it's REAL expensive and who pays for it? YOU DO !


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## dman1234

while there may be slight uneffectual differences, Canadian law is very very simillar, the main differences being terminology used and Canadians do not have the right to bear arms, also,
 in the end result the penalty for possesion and or cultivation in Canadin law may be a little more relaxed, but as for your rights to illegal search and siezure and the process that follows an arrest and or questioning are very simmilar in both Canada and the US.


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## mrkingford

viper said:
			
		

> doesnt the patriot act hinder or suspend some of these amendments ?


 

EXCELLENT question, YES, with conditions.

This HUGE and COMPLEX law recieved little to no review by Congress and was signed by Bush on 10/26/01.

There's NO WAY i could type this out, but i CAN answer specific questions.

P.S. LEO LOVES this law as it's confusing and difficult to decifer.


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## mrkingford

Examples of the Patroit Act ( abuse )

LEO can now;

1) monitor web surfing, cell phones, wire taps,ISP records, AND, AND AND, those whom PROTEST FOR LEGITMATE reasons

2) add DNA samples of ANYONE convicted of ANYTHING !!! ANYTHING !!!

3) and then there is the lovely " SNEEK AND PEEK " searches on homes, this ALLOWS LEO to enter a home without a warrant or even the homeowners knowledge or permission and WITHOUT informing them a search was done.

Think you can handle yourself alone with LEO now ???


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## mrkingford

viper said:
			
		

> did they renew this law ? i know it was for a certain period of time but dont know if it was continued . i cant believe it wasnt reviewed by congress


 
NO, they say it's getting worse !!!!!
Actually adding new and updated things from what i understand.
No, congress " peeked " at it, but it was NEVER reviewed by experts, this Act was written in haste just like the stimulas bill and pushed through the same way, " in OUR bests interests "


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## SherwoodForest

That's good stuff and I myself have been my own lawyer in my cultivation case. I demanded deferment of judgment and got it. I was first offered 360 days in jail, a felony conviction and a 10,000 dollar fine. I wittled it down to zero days in jail, no felony conviction, and no fine. I did N/A meetings and drug rehabilitation courses and finished with no felony conviction for a charge of cultivation, intent to distribute, and possesion of 22 pounds of marijiana. All this was in a state and county where MJ was illegal, I win!


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## mrkingford

SherwoodForest said:
			
		

> That's good stuff and I myself have been my own lawyer in my cultivation case. I demanded deferment of judgment and got it. I was first offered 360 days in jail, a felony conviction and a 10,000 dollar fine. I wittled it down to zero days in jail, no felony conviction, and no fine. I did N/A meetings and drug rehabilitation courses and finished with no felony conviction for a charge of cultivation, intent to distribute, and possesion of 22 pounds of marijiana. All this was in a state and county where MJ was illegal, I win!


 

Question.....How did you know about Defferment??? the judge must have been astonished !?
You got a GREAT DEAL, don't know if i could have done better, lol.:hubba: 
You were SMART to make sure your record stayed clean.

TIP;
Have your criminal record pulled, sometimes like a credit report, it's not accurate, some DUMMY INTERN enters wrong or whatever.


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## viper

WTG sherwood , do you gents know anything about employee background checks , like can they only go back so far and if a case was deferred do you have to list it on an application ? is having your criminal record pulled free?


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## mrkingford

viper said:
			
		

> WTG sherwood , do you gents know anything about employee background checks , like can they only go back so far and if a case was deferred do you have to list it on an application ? is having your criminal record pulled free?


 

Assuming we are talking about America.  ( gents sounds like overseas,lol )

1) Is it a local, state or federal check ?

2) it's not how far THEY go back, it's YOUR record, and it's starts when YOU get put into the system

3) NO, if the defferment is over, you SHOULD have had a court date to be " released ", you then leave with your "papers".
You should have followed up by checking your record 3 months after the defferment.

4) is it free???? IT'S PUBLIC KNOWLEDGE, you CAN'T HIDE IT.
Look up YOUR towns/cities court system, enter YOUR info. and BAM !
You can do it NOW !

If it was deffered, there will be no record and you do NOT have to EVER mention it to anyone INCLUDING LEO !

hope this helped........................Peace


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## SherwoodForest

I knew about deferment because during the 90's I was a marijuana rights activist and had attended several court cases involving MJ. I also watch alot of episodes of Ironsides and Mattlock.


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## mrkingford

viper said:
			
		

> lol , youd be surprised what you could pick watching tv


 

Lol, i would'nt trust myself to be my own doctor, if i were'nt a lawyer i would'nt try to defend my freedom.
Kinda like YOU fighting the Heavyweight Champion of the World for your freedom.    Most won't get far.......................


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## mrkingford

I'll now cover your rights WHILE in custody.
This is where LEO will leave you sit til your ready to talk.
It may feel like your in Vietnam Nam, alone, scared, not knowing what's next, but don't worry, now you'll know.


The rules for use of powers such as custody are outlined in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act ( PACE ).

When your taken in these things are allowed WITHOUT YOUR consent;
fingerprints, oral swabs, saliva, photos and footwear impressions

These may be REQUESTED but NOT FORCED ON YOU;

blood, urine, semen, pubic hair and dental impressions

If your remanded into custody you have the rights to;

FREE legal representation, a phone call, food AND exercise, a warm clean cell with bedding, at LEAST 8 hours rest in EVERY 24 hours

How long can i be held in a JAIL ?

24 hours, however it can be extended to 36 hours. WITHOUT being charged!
There is ONE EXCEPTION, it's the Patroit Act, it states you can be held up to 7 days without being charged!


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## mrkingford

DWI.......this is tough because each state is specific in itself.

Here are some GENERALS, look up YOUR state's laws.

The legal limit differs depending what type of vehicle your driving.
The BASIC limit in ALL states is 0.08% , BUT if your younger than 21 it's lower !!!!!
If you drive a commercial truck it's 0.04% 

If you do get pulled over DO take ALL the tests given because;

1) the refusal in itself ( in many states ) is a SEPERATE CRIME !
    You agreed to " complied consent " in most states ( check yours ) which means you implicitly agreed to take a chemical test if suspected of DWI when you recieved your license.

2) Your driving PRIVILEGE can be suspended for a year

3) you can be viewed as ADMITTING YOUR OWN guilt !

You can file a petition for a review of your license suspension with the circuit court.

Again, check YOUR state.......................and don't drink and drive folks, smoke instead................


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## mrkingford

Search and Seizure

The Supreme Court rencently updated rules on search and seizure by a narrow vote.
NOw, evidence gained by police through " isolated negligence " MAY BE USED in a court of law !
This is a significant narrowing of the " exclusionary rule " the underpinning of the constitutions 4th amendment that gaurds against " illegal search and seizure " and the allowence of illegally gained evidence against defendants.

Example;

You get pulled over and LEO and find an outstanding traffic warrant ( or something ) , you state " thats been taken care of ", which is true.

Leo searches your car, finds weed and charges you.
You get to the jail and the jail finds out you DID take care of the warrant, but now the "search and seizure" was not legal according to the 4th amendment, but now the Supreme court states that this evidence CAN be used EVEN though it was an "illegal" search and seizure.

Rules are changing everyday!
Check YOUR criminal record NOW.
here's how;
Look up YOUR cities/states offical court website and enter YOUR info.
You can check criminal, traffic, cival....................


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## mrkingford

Can LEO seize what they find in a frisk?

Depends.
Suppose they told you they are frisking for a weapon and pat you down and feel a hard object in your pocket they are permitted to reach in and take it.
Suppose however LEO feel something soft in your pocket that could not possibly be a weapon LEO has NO right to seize such an item.
Strange huh,
The supreme court has held that LEO conducting a pat down search for WEAPONS is not entitled to seize an item that based on LEO's sence of touch bore no resemblance to a weapon.

That's why you NEED an attorney that is KNOWLEDGABLE.
There are suppression hearings for such things.


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## zipflip

excellent thread kingford
    "NORML FOUNDATION FREEDOM CARD"
    heres the link if any interested in printin a copy for them selves as well./
hxxp://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=3407
 just clik on "download the pdf document" an go from tehre.
  i hope someone finds it useful as i already have.
 the card reads as follows:

THE FOUNDATION FREEDOM CARD
The U.S. Constitution prohibits the government from interfering with
your right to remain silent, to consult with an attorney, and to be free
from unreasonable searches and seizures by law enforcement.
However, it is up to you to assert these rights. This NORML Foundation
Freedom Card will help you do so effectively.
If you are confronted by a police officer, remain calm. Be courteous
and provide your identification. Politely refuse to answer any further
questions. Ask to talk to an attorney. Do not consent to any search of
your person, your property, your residence or your vehicle. Tell the
officer you would like to give him or her this card, which is a statement
of the constitutional rights you wish to invoke. Do not reach for this
card until you have obtained the officer&#8217;s permission to do so.

If the officer fails to honor your rights, remain calm and
polite, ask for the officer&#8217;s identifying information and ask
him or her to note your objection in the report. Do not
attempt to physically resist an unlawful arrest, search or
seizure. If necessary, you may point out the violations to a
judge at a later time.
THE N FOUNDATION
1600 K Street, N.W.. Suite 501
Washington, D.C. 20006
202-483-5500 www.norml.org

*I hereby invoke and refuse to waive all of the following rights and
privileges afforded to me by the U.S. Constitution:
&#8226; I invoke and refuse to waive my Fifth Amendment right to
remain silent. Do not ask me any questions.
&#8226; I invoke and refuse to waive my Sixth Amendment right to an
attorney of my choice. Do not ask me any questions without my
attorney present.
&#8226; I invoke and refuse to waive all privileges and rights pursuant
to the case Miranda v. Arizona. Do not ask me any questions or make
any comment to me about this decision.
&#8226; I invoke and refuse to waive my Fourth Amendment right to be
free from unreasonable searches and seizures. I do not consent to
any search or seizure of myself, my home, or of any property in my
possession. Do not ask me about my ownership interest in any
property. I do not consent to this contact with you. If I am not
presently under arrest or under investigatory detention, please allow
me to leave.
&#8226; Any statement I make, or alleged consent I give, in response
to your questions is hereby made under protest and under duress and
in submission to your claim of lawful authority to force me to provide
you with information.*


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## cadlakmike1

I think it would also be worth mentioning that any person placed on probation or parole waives their right to the fourth amendment.  It would be nice if you could list more applicable laws to those placed on parole/probation if you get a chance.


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## zipflip

:48:


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## cadlakmike1

Interesting.  I'm currently not on any form of paper but I wouldn't mind knowing more about it just in case down the road, well you know....


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## cadlakmike1

You know what else I'm curious about. If someone owns guns and there house is searched and both pot and the guns are found is that person in more trouble?  This is assuming all their guns are legal and registered.


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## cadlakmike1

Well first about the wording, the smallest words make such a big difference on things like search warrants, especially in what areas can and can not be searched so I see no reason why specific wording can not be used to defend oneself in a court of law.

Second, that's pretty scary about the gun drug laws.  I would really like to know more about that.  I hope to hear more.  Obviously the laws are different depending on total weight of what you are caught with and also whether you were cultivating or not, I wonder if you are caught with any amount plus a gun, even in your residence, if that is a pretty serious charge.


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## SherwoodForest

cadlakmike1 said:
			
		

> You know what else I'm curious about. If someone owns guns and there house is searched and both pot and the guns are found is that person in more trouble? This is assuming all their guns are legal and registered.


 In my case the cops took my guns and several banana clips I had. I wasn't a previous affender though. But they were all up in my junk about the clips because they didn't find the Mac10 they came from. Lucky for me I sold that pos before the raid. All the guns were legal and I got no extra charges due to them.


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## BBFan

Good post mrkingford.

This is the best advice here:



> I hereby invoke and refuse to waive all of the following rights and
> privileges afforded to me by the U.S. Constitution:
>  I invoke and refuse to waive my Fifth Amendment right to
> remain silent. Do not ask me any questions.
>  I invoke and refuse to waive my Sixth Amendment right to an
> attorney of my choice. Do not ask me any questions without my
> attorney present.
>  I invoke and refuse to waive all privileges and rights pursuant
> to the case Miranda v. Arizona. Do not ask me any questions or make
> any comment to me about this decision.
>  I invoke and refuse to waive my Fourth Amendment right to be
> free from unreasonable searches and seizures. I do not consent to
> any search or seizure of myself, my home, or of any property in my
> possession. Do not ask me about my ownership interest in any
> property. I do not consent to this contact with you. If I am not
> presently under arrest or under investigatory detention, please allow
> me to leave.
>  Any statement I make, or alleged consent I give, in response
> to your questions is hereby made under protest and under duress and
> in submission to your claim of lawful authority to force me to provide
> you with information.



That was written by an attorney and will protect your rights.

 My son got stopped in his car and the PO performed an illegal search on his person and found a pipe.  He then asked my son if he could search the car and my son assumed he was under arrest so he consented.  My attorney got the pipe thrown out but couldn't get the bag the PO found in the car thrown out.  So, the best advice is keep your mouth shut!


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## BBFan

> A Huntley hearing which can suppress statements made to you by LEO


How would a defendant in PA request a Huntley Hearing?



> The rules for use of powers such as custody are outlined in the Police and Criminal Evidence Act ( PACE ).


Who authored the PACE Act and when was it enacted?


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## mrkingford

BBFan said:
			
		

> How would a defendant in PA request a Huntley Hearing?


 

As STATED NUMEROUS TIMES, CHECK YOUR STATE LAW.
Where did I SAY PA???????????????? in ANY of the formentioned??????

I infatically stated GENERAL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## mrkingford

Zip, about that card, it's fine and all but a bit winded, lol.
Once you invoke your right in any manner by asking for an attorney, it's valid.


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## mrkingford

If you ask for an attorney they may NOT continue to question you, PERIOD, no need to read off a book or state everyone of your rights.
But i'm sure the card would give them a good chuckle,lol.


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## mrkingford

BBFan said:
			
		

> OK.
> You still have not answered my questions about the Pace Act or where is the case law that substaniates your claim of a 36 hour pre-charge detention?quote]
> 
> Most agencies will release within 12-36 hours so as NOT to infringe on the MAXIUM 48 hours WHICH MOST STATES DON'T USE, because who's to say the exact moment of custody? If they go over, you can sue.


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## monkeybusiness

As an fairly intense personality myself i can totally understand how these things take a hard turn quickly (especially when talk of legalities are the topic). But i would like to point out the original, honorable intention of this thread. This is a resource most people don't even think to pursue until they are already in trouble. Knowing your rights and how to properly exercise them is knowledge i think should be digested by every pot smoker/grower AND something that will help us avoid getting in trouble in the first place. Cops play tricks. The more we know the less likely their tricks will work.
 Obviously we are all on the same side so i hope we can take a deep cleansing breathe and get back on course.

 I mean no disrepect to anyone involved.


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## Hick

I'm going to open this thread back up., as I feel it is beneficial. 
A few pms have been exchanged, an apology has been offered.  I hope BB and mrk' will agree to abide by our rules of conduct.. "no personal" attacks, no "flaming".


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## mrkingford

cadlakmike1 said:
			
		

> I think it would also be worth mentioning that any person placed on probation or parole waives their right to the fourth amendment. It would be nice if you could list more applicable laws to those placed on parole/probation if you get a chance.


 

AGAIN, check YOUR state law, but where i practiced;

Probation is granted with the understanding you have been placed on supervision by "your county" court of common pleas.
EVERYONE must comply with general rules (again, check YOUR STATE) and also you may be placed on "special" conditions by the judge.

Futher conditions can be applied during anytime of your probation.

You may NOT leave your state without permission and often if you still owe monies to the clerk of courts.
You must notify your PO of any changed in your employment or residence.
Your PO has full access WITHOUT a need of a warrant to ENTER ANYWHERE YOU reside anytime !
Your PO has the power to detain you in jail TIL you see a judge again.

You have 72 hours to report any new offence or to report if your under investigation by LEO.
You may NOT possess a weapon ( firearm ) if you were convicted of a felony OR a misdemeanor if it involved violence.

What happens if my PO hates me and is out to get me?
Speak with their supervisor, EVERY PO has a supervisor and you may get a different PO or the supervisor as a PO ( be careful of what you ask for though, you might get it ).

To be clear, YOU ARE IN THE LEGAL CUSTODY of the court until your probation is DONE !

You may NOT consume alcohol or be in places where it is served without prior permission.

You must submit to any tests given for alcohol or drugs.

And finally to answer your question about losing your 4th rights;

Act 35   61 P.  S.  331.27b   defendant is required to submit to a warrantless search of his residence, person, auto.


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## mrkingford

Violation of Probation

A request is filed with the court of clerks to revoke your probation.

A judge may not revoke unless/until;

1) a finding the defendant violated a condition AND
2) A hearing with the defendant present and represented

You can, after that hearing, file a motion to modify a sentence imposed after revoking within 10 days.

This rule does not apply to probable cause "gagnon 1"
But to "gagnon II" which needs to be initiated in writing to the clerk of courts.


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## BBFan

Good info, mrkingford.  Thank you.


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## mrkingford

To touch on a misconception that was on another thread.

A probation officer does NOT have the power to revoke your probation, PERIOD.

They CAN detain you in jail, file on you for revocation, and you will sit in jail til the judge sees you.

In our American court system, never does 1 person have sole power over you.
You are entitled to a defence AND representation even if charged with revocation or new crimes.


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## mrkingford

Also for FYI;

The general way it works is a new PO fresh out of college with their 1st degree ( usually works as a po while getting higher degree to climb up the ladder ) is that they get the smallest minor non-violent violators.

So, rule of thumb is, the more serious the crime, the more experienced the PO., thus harder to get away with things.

If your on probation for a 1st offence for a non-violent crime your PO will probably not bother you unless YOU cause it, thus you can get away with slightly pushing that fine line.


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## mrkingford

Parole;

I really am not informed enough to feel comfortable about posting on this.
When i recieved my degree i worked for a firm and did all sorts of cases pertaining to criminal ( except rape and child sex cases, i REFUSED at my interview! ) for 6 years.
Then i recieved an offer from a "head hunter" ( a professional employment angency that HUNTS for specific canidates for specific employers and tries to "relocate" their current employment to their clients employ ) to work as a retained lawyer ( which is FREAKIN CAKE WORK,LOL) for a " company " to represent their " employees ", thats all i'll say on that.

I did that for 5 1/2 years til i got sick and moved here.

I really only did 4 or 5 parole hearings, several were in violation, i did a lot of study prior but only case specific, so i CAN'T feel comfortable about speaking on the subject.....................


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## mrkingford

PD's ( public defenders ) vs. PC's ( private counsel )

Don't believe me please. 
Check your local municipality.
This is ALL public knowledge and YOU can check NOW !

This may take time as you have to get a list of PD's from the muncipality's website then compare to each case's defender but if you stick with a 1 or 2 month period in a short time you can do the ratio's of guilty vs. anything else per defending PD or PC and even more specific per crime, race, etc.

Then you can decide if a PD or a PC is best for you.


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## mrkingford

I was asked a question by someone i know, let me present what happened;

Her son was in a shopping mall and was wearing a back pack. Mall security was looking for teenage theifs that were robbing the mall and were using back packs to steal items ( he was not part of this ). Mall security approached him and searched him and the back pack and foung a bowl and several bags of weed. They held him til the cops came and he was arrested and charged with sale of MJ and possesion.

His 4th amendment rights were obviousily violated right?
WRONG!

Read this and be AWARE.

Private security personnel currently outnumber police officers in the United States by 3-1. As a result, whether you're shopping in a supermarket or a pharmacy, working in an office building, you may be more likely to be confronted by a security guard than by a police officer. At the present time, in todays society the Fourth Amendment does NOT apply to searches carried out by NON-governmental employees like private security guards.

Thus evidence retrieved can and is used in court against you!


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## IRISH

this is where the boy made the mistake of letting mall security ever touch him, or his private property. i was in a similar situation as above. at a supermarket/dept. store. i was browsing around the sporting goods area as my wife grocery shopped across the same store. i was looking at a boaters safety kit, picked it up off from the shelf, and it had been opened prior to me touching it. all the contents went helter skelter all over the aisle floor.

i should have left it for someone to do thier job. instead, i picked up all the seen contents, and returned them to thier 7x12 box, then set this item back on the shelf, and mosied about my window shopping. 

i did get the feeling i was being watched, and, or followed over the next 45 minutes , or so, until i met up with the wife, paid for the items she had gotten, then exited the store.

thats when two security guards circled us, and asked me to return to the store with them. i had no clue they had thought i had stolen an item, or items', from the boaters safety kit.

that was until they asked me to empty my pockets. . they stated thier suspicions, saying stuff like, 'we got it all on camera'. i told them fine. "if you have me on camera shoplifting, do your job, and get mgmt, and the police here".

they had me, and wife in thier office. they actually wanted to strip search me. i told them no, and to do thier job again. after they had threatened me, and tried a few intimidation tactics, they seen my 6'4", 220 lbs. was'nt budgeing. my wife rained down on them, when they tried to forcibly attack me. there was more fists flying in there than an ali-frazier match...

at this time, they were backed into a corner, and beaten down severly. i never touched one of them. this is when my wife rips her blouse half off, busts through the office door into the store , and begins screaming rape, at the top of her lungs...

moral to this story...they should have done thier job, and phoned the police... 

i did'nt steal anything, and as this scenario was played out, turns out, each of them had previous sex offender tags. seems this store did'nt do background checks on employees, leaving them wide open to what came next...(mrkingford)... ...


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## Hick

:rofl:.... way kool irish!


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## zipflip

wat happened to MKF? i noticed his avy is blank etc..  :confused2:  he split now too? or ya still round MKF


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## AcesUp

Yea. Why is mrkingford's avatar gone? I notice this every now and again with other members.


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## monkeybusiness

ya know, he musta deleted his account a few weeks back. I noticed at the time because he had just started some sort of 'ya ever wonder' type of thread and in one of the reply's UK420girl said something to the affect of 'ya ever wonder, why someone starts a thread then deletes their account'. I'm paraphrasing because i can't remeber what was said or even the title of thread. Tried to look for it but couldn't find it.
 Where ever he is, hope all is well!


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## Hick

MrK' asked that his account be deleted... "personal issues"


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## zipflip

well now i knwo i guess.

thanks.


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## mcdstvn

Great thread, bookmark'd so I can get one of those cards. They seem handy. Just whip it out of your wallet every time you get pulled over.


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## tomjo

EDIT  

Please don't SPAM our forum.


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## DEA REWARDS

Report Drug Traffickers To be-a-snitch.com


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## pcduck

DEA REWARDS said:
			
		

> DEA reserves the exclusive right to determine whether an individual will receive a reward payment and the amount of such reward payment.



So what you are really say is ' Become a snitch and you may find yourself in a ditch, cause we ain't gonna pay ya.' 

Go get a real job, smuck:aok:

BIU :bong::ciao:


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## spiritglove

If you accept a plea bargain, that is, you agree to plead guilty to a lesser offense, or have any number of charges dismissed, for a specific sentence, saving the State/Fed time and money.  You have then only limited rights to appeal. Then you can appeal generally only the illegality, or harshness of the sentence, violations against your right to a speedy trial, the trial court failing to determine your competency to stand trial, the state law is unconstitutional, your plea was not voluntary and knowing, the trial court has not jurisdiction over you or the matter at hand, conviction based upon false evidence, the improper denial of a motion to suppress, or inadequate legal counsel.
  The rule of thumb is simply this, if you know that they have a solid case against you, your better off taking the plea, if there is a substantial  reasonable doubt you can raise, then take it to trial.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW YOUR RIGHTS, YOU DON'T HAVE ANY!!

If you fail to raise any appealable issues before the court of original instance, then you loose the right to appeal on those grounds. 

If you remain silent regarding your rights, then they are considered waived, you loose them.


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## Batman

Good to read, thanks!


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## spl1f

The most important right is the right to remain silent.
Even if a police officer asks someone in the USA
"Are we on planet earth?"  
Politely reply "i would like to consult with my attorney please"
Whether it be before a judge or police officer or the district magistrate
that's the answer i give.  It can literally save a person thousands of
dollars in fines, costs, restitution and possibly years of incarceration.
Also, for those who can, have an attorney already paid for.
So before xyz "hits the fan" have a lawyer already retained.
Never hurts to have bail money already available via your attorney.
Locations differ, states differ and even counties differ.  So do the homework
for your general area, meaning if xyz attorney has a good rep in that specific
county, might be the one to have on retainer.  Doesn't hurt to have the
attorney in charge of sending money to your "books" just in case your
staying for a bit.  That way you are not destitute while in jail.
That's money for phone calls, food, clothing, shampoo etc...


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