# Is this a polyploid?



## NYC_Diesel x Jack_Herer (Jun 9, 2009)

So I got this Ed Rosenthal seed plant with growth that does not match my other seeds. In addition, at each node where two shoots usually come off the plant there are 3 (I tried to show this in the pic below, sorry it's a bit out of focus).  I have read a couple posts recently on ployploids but I am not well versed in them at all.  I have seen some say this could be a great and rare characteristic to have, other posts seem to say these are usually male.....what do you all think?

Regardless I am kicking the plant into flowering today so we will know the sex soon enough.


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## zipflip (Jun 9, 2009)

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=117031&d=1244266789
hey nyc this a pic of one i got thta seems similar to this whored poly thingy too. 
  an to be quite honest i may have even accidentally pulled or somethin to make a leaf depart from a plant lol but i do not remmber so im goin wit the fact that this the way it was cuz when i started mine i didnt pay much attention to them as much as i do now cuz i had others finishin buddin up an that kinda needless to say distracted me from everythin in life for bout teh last week there. 
 but anyway i saw that other thread ya was all chattin bout it and even copied it all down in my e-notes for my personal reference. but 
 im guessin it would be one them there poly deals. is yours only on one set node thats like that tripod looking to it. cuz on mines it just that one set and all is normal above it all. an no signs of scarring from any preexisting leaf vein brutally ripped from its body .   if it was... poor thing haha. 
 sry just flappin . got nice buzz on tanite man.
  but despite the hype of em all bein more male than anything im still gonna let mine go an watch it tho. 
   i so wanna get a plant sometime that like this total oddity like i mean somethin so weird ya write home bout it after seein it.. lol
  i got some artistic ideas im gonna dabble into wit some clones if my girls reveg successfully an i can get as far as gettin cuttings from them ever.
  oh man this is nuts man. sory but off the subject but have you ever tried quittin smokin cigarettes if ya a smoker? lol
  im currently goin for kikin teh habbit. an a buddy told me do it liek i quit drinkin. quit cold turkey stay busy an stay hi.  LOL  
  i have to say it was the best advise i ever got from anyone.  i told my doctor bout it when he asked how my drinkin was goin years bak. he laffed an said he couldnt agree more an give me this crazy grin like he a smoker an believes in its medical an healing capabilities lol.
  wow im goin off  somewhere far now.
  but yea i got one them whored polyplids things too lol


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Jun 9, 2009)

is it like this guy was?

he had 3 cots, 3- first sets, second, third and fourth, etc... then he started alternating and got flowered and used to make Blush, KULT, and Skush.

I'm told the tri-foliate trait was passed on, as reported by a couple test growers and myself in more than one cross.


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## NYC_Diesel x Jack_Herer (Jun 9, 2009)

yea it's showing this at all nodes so far.  It was a strange sprout.  It came through as a seedling and just sat with it's waterleafs looking all funny for about a week before it started growing at all.


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## zipflip (Jun 9, 2009)

lol   mine prolly just lost a leaf somewhere long the lines then. lol. 
i woulda noticed one wit 3 coty's in the beginning tho for sure but never did. bummer.. (sarcasm)


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## Hick (Jun 9, 2009)

NYC_Diesel x Jack_Herer said:
			
		

> So I got this Ed Rosenthal seed plant with growth that does not match my other seeds. In addition, at each node where two shoots usually come off the plant there are 3 (I tried to show this in the pic below, sorry it's a bit out of focus).  I have read a couple posts recently on ployploids but I am not well versed in them at all.  I have seen some say this could be a great and rare characteristic to have, other posts seem to say these are usually male.....what do you all think?
> 
> Regardless I am kicking the plant into flowering today so we will know the sex soon enough.



.search here for.."whorled phyllotaxi"...it's not necessarily a sign of polyploid...


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## NYC_Diesel x Jack_Herer (Jun 9, 2009)

thanks Hick.


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## Vegs (Jun 9, 2009)

> other posts seem to say these are usually male.....what do you all think?



In my previous Blue Mystic grow I had one of these and it turned out to be a male.


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## BioShaman (Jul 5, 2009)

Nirvana has a few strains with that mostly WW.


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## Oregon Bob (Jul 5, 2009)

Seems to me that 1 is higher than 3 which is higher than 2...?  Is this correct, even if by 1/8-1/4" differences?

When i had my one poly it was discernibly bunched together... all at the same horizontal point of the stalk.  This was unmistakable.  Hick might be right on.  Best brah.


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## Hick (Jul 5, 2009)

I'm seeing these being referred to as polyploid. .... they ARE 'whorled phyllotaxi'.  
According to what I have read, polys do not occur naturally in mj. It 'must' be treated with hazardous chemical (colchicine) sp?.. to induce polyploidism.  


> pol·y·ploid  (pl-ploid)
> adj.
> Having one or more extra sets of chromosomes: a polyploid species; a polyploid cell.
> n.
> An organism with more than two sets of chromosomes.





> Polyploid
> 
> (genetics) an organism or cell having more than twice the haploid number of chromosomes.Of a cell or organism having more than twice the haploid number of chromosomes; a polyploid cell; a polyploid species.Organisms that possess two sets of each chromosome.



tri-foliate/quad-foliate growth does not indicate multiple sets of chromosomes. .


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## zipflip (Jul 5, 2009)

curious tho hick. have you seen my thread in my sig wit my whorled girls.  i got the seeds from buds so tehy was not treated liek ya said.  but i too  knwo wat your talkin bout wit the bein treated wit chems. i cant recall the name of it off top my head but it starts wit "c"   and read  somewhere that out of 1000 seeds treated wit the chem "c" maybe 10 will sprout and them suppose to be like some super mj or somethin to that effect.
  but now in my case wit mine now wat would cause this other than it be natural?

edit:  here is where i read of the whole whorled deal.
Clarke, Robert C - Marijuana Botany an Advanced Study
page 30 polyploidy - it starts explainin it .  hxxp://www.scribd.com/doc/9700900/Clarke-Robert-C-Marijuana-Botany-an-Advanced-Study

colchisine is the name the chemical an i was off on the number seeds thing. my bad.


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## Hick (Jul 5, 2009)

whorled phyllotaxi, what you have... does not mean it is poly', nor treated with "c"...


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## zipflip (Jul 5, 2009)

so then is this just a fluke of mj nature then or wat distinguishes polyploids from plain whorled phylotaxi. i think i worded that right, no?


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## Hick (Jul 5, 2009)

zipflip said:
			
		

> so then is this just a fluke of mj nature then or wat distinguishes polyploids from plain whorled phylotaxi. i think i worded that right, no?


adj.
Having one or more *extra* sets of chromosomes:
n.
An organism with more than two sets of chromosomes.


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## zipflip (Jul 5, 2009)

so basically my girls have down syndrome ?  lol
 if im not mistaken down syndrome has to do wit either extra or one less chromosome.

see this is the whole part that throws me off wit the whole polyploid.



> Polyploidy
> 
> Polyploidy is the condition of multiple sets of chromosomes within one cell. Cannabis has 20 chromosomes in the vegetative diploid (2n) condition. Triploid (3n) and tetraploid (4n) individuals have three or four sets of chromosomes and *are termed polyploids*.



then it goes on sayin that it doesnt occur naturally an only by bein treated wit chemical colchicine


> Polyploidy has not been shown to occur naturally in Cannabis; however, it may be induced artificially with colchicine treatments.


 now my seeds i had used were from a big bag of good nugs a friend mine got while back. and he is a far cry from bein teh least bit intelligent to where i could say he treated them lol. so that parts ruled out wit mine i'd say.
  could it be possible that the grower whom the buds came from had treated the seeds he grew an harvested these buds from which the seeds came from.?   
   i keep googlin an all i keep gettin is the same info "marijuana botany literature"
  i knwo i need to clear this up and give it a definite closure to the hype before it drives me nuts sooner or later to say the least . lol


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## Hick (Jul 5, 2009)

> Triploid (3n) and tetraploid (4n) individuals have three or four sets of *chromosomes *


..not leaves.
What makes you think your plants have mulptiple sets of chromosomes?  
you have _tri-foliates_ not triploid..


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## zipflip (Jul 5, 2009)

o ok.  whorled trifoliates not whorled polyploids.
  thus the one wit four leaves would be termed tetrafoliate?
 it was all the chromosome thing i kept misinterpreting for number of leaves then....
 wow i feel like an indiot now.  

 so then how in teh hek does one determine how many chromosomes ya plant got. lol  

so all this bein said an now thati understand it wat ya been tryin to basically pound into my head the whorled foliate thing is classified as wat then.
   they just freaks ?

dont bail on me hick.  your the only one so far whos been able to shed any real light on this for me so far.
  i just wanna knwo wats teh reason for them or cause or watever is all im gettin at.
  cuz up til now it been like sleepin wit women whom i never caught they names. lol


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## Hick (Jul 5, 2009)

:aok: ..you got it!.. and I would "guess' tetra or quad-foliate   
I don't have any idea "what" causes it. It 'is' considered a mutation I believe.


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## zipflip (Jul 5, 2009)

> It 'is' considered a mutation I believe.


 sweet!!!!! my girls are freaks..  lol
 its all good. freaks have a place in life somewhere too i suppose. and i guess im the lucky one to get 3 of them. lol  either way they better ern their keep an put out or get out... :laugh: 
  thanks again hick for helpin me sort out the confusion.


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 5, 2009)

Hick, zipflip and NYC thank for the info it clear up my thinking on polyploid and multi-foliate eace:
sticky maybe


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## zipflip (Jul 5, 2009)

now i dont feel so...er derr!!! over this fact. 
 im assumin you was confused as well same as i was ozzy,no?
 i feel better now its cleared up tho.

ps have ya seen my freaks yet ozzy. ya gotta check teh pic wit the 7 calyxes on one node.
  its in y whorled freaks link in sig. on the last page pic post.
  now i mean the one is an absolute freak imo.


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## SherwoodForest (Jul 5, 2009)

My Whorled polyploid is a very trippy plant. It started with the 3 pod leafs, then had 3 single starter leafs. Now it has the next set of leaves and they are round like a rose bush leaf. Pics shortly!


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## SherwoodForest (Jul 10, 2009)

Here she is. The other day I looked and the top new set of leaves was all curled up and so I looked into it, and a worm flopped out! That tiny sucker was fast, but I squeeshed the life outa him. Anyhoo, the plant looks cool.


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## zipflip (Jul 11, 2009)

i think your just as misinformed as we were on the whole whorled thing sherwood 
  thats wat our discussion on the page before this one. that they actually called whorled tri-foliates or tetra-foliates(four) i got a 2 tri's and 1 tetra both bout 4 wks into flowr right now.
  i believe the term polyploid is used to define a chemically induced whorled plant rather than the freak of nature like we here all have. lol
  i was confused for longest time too tho. but just thought id clead itup for ya. 
  im anxious to seee how yours turns out.  so many say they all mostly males but all three my whorled plants are female. only one popped a couple balls but pulled em off an since then none have returned that i have noticed anyway. (knock on wood) lol
  good luck wit yours man.
  you gonna keep tabs on it in ya journal aswell?


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## MindzEye (Jul 11, 2009)

Lol I got here too late, Hick beat me to it... Its a Trifoliate not polypliod...   Trifoliates are almost allways MALE!! I have seen some trifoliate females, if you get one that is female save it for a mother... Its a rare plant!!


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## zipflip (Jul 11, 2009)

> if you get one that is female save it for a mother... Its a rare plant!!


 well i got 2 tri's that are female. one went herm onme an i pulled its bags off(only 2 on the whoel girl) and none come back so far. and i also got a tetra(4) foliate as well thats a female and to me wat i can see is that this tetra is loaded wit  trichs compared to any my other tri's or normal girls by far.  
  my 2 tri's aint relly nothin to write home bout tho imo. they a lil wimpy lookin in the buds to ay the least really. and teh one that went herm on me it has hardly any trich production that i can see compared to any the other plants as well.
  now if my tetra lives on an stays female i may consider reveggin her for a mom. either way im a reveg one of the bunch for a mom.  i got my eyes ona particular normal female  tho as well. shes a beast in my eyes. lol


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## MindzEye (Jul 11, 2009)

zipflip said:
			
		

> well i got 2 tri's that are female. one went herm onme an i pulled its bags off(only 2 on the whoel girl) and none come back so far. and i also got a tetra(4) foliate as well thats a female and to me wat i can see is that this tetra is loaded wit  trichs compared to any my other tri's or normal girls by far.
> my 2 tri's aint relly nothin to write home bout tho imo. they a lil wimpy lookin in the buds to ay the least really. and teh one that went herm on me it has hardly any trich production that i can see compared to any the other plants as well.
> now if my tetra lives on an stays female i may consider reveggin her for a mom. either way im a reveg one of the bunch for a mom.  i got my eyes ona particular normal female  tho as well. shes a beast in my eyes. lol



What strain is this again? I have a buddy who mass produces white widow with his huge trifoliate WW mother... He has bred some strains that had trifoliate tendencies but as usual they are almost all male... Try using them for thier genetics, if you unlock the secret to female trifoliate plants you would be a legend amongst breeder worldwide LOL... BTW this dude is super stingy with clones, Ive been begging him for over a year LOL...


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## zipflip (Jul 11, 2009)

im not sure wat strain as i got the seeds form a buddy who gets his smoke from someone in another city who grows larger scale. but from wat ive seen from other people grows wit white widow etc especially smokeybears girls. i wouldnt doubt they WW tho. they look identical in every which way. stature shape form etc everythin.
  buti called my buddy up last nite and he said he gonna ask his guy wat strain it was he got the seeds form. i told my buddy next time he gets bud to ask wat strain it is before he goes givin me beans. i get all the seed i want for free. just only i dont really know wat tey are. but he said he gonna find out. but im bettin money on it  they WW tho. but who knows.


> Try using them for thier genetics, if you unlock the secret to female trifoliate plants you would be a legend amongst breeder worldwide LOL...


  you talkin for breeding(pollinating)?  
  i tarted to save a male aside for pollen to do justthis but i gave up on it all an trashed him. lol.  i wish my skillz were more apt tho now. cuz he was a big beutiful male at that for sure.
  bt unlocking the secret to trifoliate gen's... ? i wouldnt have the slightest clue where to begin on that one.
  i almost dont feel worthy to have these girls now. as they'd prolly be more beneficial to someone else who knows wat they doin tho for sure.
  but who knows im prolly gonna reveg the tetra(4leaf foliate ) one and tha one plain female thats a big girl of the bunch. butlike i said thetri's really aint nothin to write home about. mine anyway i mean. they really wimpy in the buds as well as their form even. but still none the less they puttinout buds tho.  
  so wat benefit ya think i can use these girl to?
  heck if i knew you an you was here id say come over when i reveg them and give em a haircut. as you'd prolly know better how to use it to its potential.
  like i said i dont feel worthy to be carryin these girls now.  LOL as im still new to growin yet.

PS- there pix of them in my thread in my signature "my whorled freaks" if ya curious in checkin em out..
 i just got my cam back from borrowin it to a friend so im a prolly put up sum more pix of em tonite.
  and hey mindzeye, if ya know of any info on all these tri/tetra foliates an genetic etc  please give me a heads up. the only thing i ever find is teh section in clarkes matijuana botany.  i aiint findin much more info on em anywhere.  
  thanks


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## mistisrising (Aug 4, 2009)

MindzEye said:
			
		

> What strain is this again? I have a buddy who mass produces white widow with his huge trifoliate WW mother... He has bred some strains that had trifoliate tendencies but as usual they are almost all male... Try using them for thier genetics, if you unlock the secret to female trifoliate plants you would be a legend amongst breeder worldwide LOL... BTW this dude is super stingy with clones, Ive been begging him for over a year LOL...



I have a Kaya feminized plant outdoor right now that's whorled. Are you saying that you can increase the occurence of this by using it to breed? Since kaya is a medium thc strain bred to be left somewhere, would it be beneficail to f1 it with a more potent strain, or just clone the piss out of it next year?


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