# 1000w HID vs. Magnum+ LED vs. Apollo 10 LED vs. Penetrator 336x - The Showdown!



## reddfata (Jul 12, 2012)

Little late getting this journal together, so will be playing catch-up for the first couple days!

Grow summary;

4 independent rooms, 4' wide x 8' long x 8' high. Each room is equipt with 1 x 4" 165 cfm intake fan and 1 x 4" 165 cfm outtake fan.

Room 1 is outfitted with a 1000w hypotek digital ballast running a 1000w dual arc bulb. cost of this lighting system was $299.99 for the ballast, $169.99 for the reflector and $159.99 for the bulb. Total cost $629.97

Room 2 is outfitted with a Apollo 10 LED grow light that is drawing 2.65A or 325w. Cost of this setup is $799.99

Room 3 is outfitted with a Magnum Plus LED grow light that is drawing 2.42A or 294w. Cost of this setup is $1099.99

Room 4 is utfitted with a Penetrator 336x pro LED grow light that is drawing 4.15A or 515w. Cost of this setup is $2199.99

Each room will have an even number of female lowryder 2 auto flower in them. The goal is to see what if these LEDs can really stack up to a 1000w HID system and also to see which LED is producing the most GPW for the money!

I am finally ready to do this first grow off, I popped 30 Lowryder2 autos and planted them on the 28th of June and moved them into 2 of my 4 x 8 x 8 test rooms. 14 are under a 1000w dual arc HID setup and 13 are under the mag+ and regular 357 magnum par amp 2012 in full veg mode. They have been on 24 hours of light since the 28th and will switch over to 18/6 for the rest of the grow starting today. The 27 survivors will be broken down to 6 per room with the extra 3 going one each into the LED rooms. The nutes being used for this grow are Advanced Nutrients...


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## reddfata (Jul 12, 2012)

ok so the plants have been sitting under the mag+ and regular mag and the 1000w dual arc on 24/7 light cycle since the 3rd of July. I have been watering by hand everyday and fed the ladies on the 6th, 8th and on the 9th.

Tomorrow the plants will be divided up evenly and placed into the test rooms. I will mark the plants that were vegged under HID and those under the Magnum LED so we can see if there is a noticeable difference in plant structure or yields.

And now, here come the pics...


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 12, 2012)

This should be a great thread nice way to set up and compare he different light systems


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 12, 2012)

You are only running autos?


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## PartyBro420 (Jul 12, 2012)

I should hope you've got a whole lot of spare cash, are affiliated with a magazine, or company directly, cause DAYUMN that's a lot of money to put out just to test some lighting equipment!

I looked at those magnum LED systems and wanted to throw up a little bit in my mouth. 

I'm no genius but I love electronics. I grew up with a father that was an electrician in the navy, and always loved to take things apart and put them back together, so I looked up the components for the LED lighting systems... and... uhhh... well... If you have a soldering iron, access to a printer that has never had normal ink run through it, and access to an electronics hobby supply shop... You can print your own circuit board and build the system yourself for under $200, and you can customize it for whatever size/shape/spectrum you want. You can even build in timer circuits so when you flip a 3 way switch it goes from off->12/12->24/0. No wall timers required ever again for lighting.

LED lighting systems IMO are the wave of the future... as soon as they don't cost so much to purchase outright. What we use now works wonders, it's just a matter of efficiency currently.

Sometime in the next year i'm going to undertake this as a hobby project and do a DIY post on building your own LED lighting system.

Great looking set ups though and I can't wait to see your results! Green Mojo!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 12, 2012)

We've been thinking that LEDs are the wave of the future for about 10 years or so now.....

I hope to see a comparison grow with regular photoperiod plants rather than autos sometime in the future.


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## Locked (Jul 12, 2012)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> We've been thinking that LEDs are the wave of the future for about 10 years or so now.....
> 
> I hope to see a comparison grow with regular photoperiod plants rather than autos sometime in the future.






			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> You are only running autos?




The only way even today's LEDS can compete with HID is lowryders....LEDS just don't hve the penetration power. PJ has been working with LEDS over at Cannetics and pretty much said you hve to keep the plants small and grow more plants to get near the yield you wld get with HIDs. So I am not surprised with the choice of autos over regular photo period plants. Jmo


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Jul 13, 2012)

Pics?  Please?


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## AluminumMonster (Jul 13, 2012)

So this test is being conducted from seed????  Seems to me that from clone would be the most accurate way to conduct this test. There are too many variations in plant growth (even with autos) to make an educated decision. What happens if you end up with 20 males? Are you gunna flower out 2 autos under a 1k? Because i dont think i would waste the electricity.
not to mention the fact that 30 autos cost what 100 per 10pk.  So every time you use LED's ya gotta drop $300 on beans, idk......switch to clones and this test might mean something....JMHO


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## Locked (Jul 13, 2012)

AluminumMonster said:
			
		

> So this test is being conducted from seed????  Seems to me that from clone would be the most accurate way to conduct this test. There are too many variations in plant growth (even with autos) to make an educated decision. What happens if you end up with 20 males? Are you gunna flower out 2 autos under a 1k? Because i dont think i would waste the electricity.
> not to mention the fact that 30 autos cost what 100 per 10pk.  So every time you use LED's ya gotta drop $300 on beans, idk......switch to clones and this test might mean something....JMHO




I am thinking he probably did an Auto Seed run first....like you said autos are expensive.  I think from clone wld hve worked well too...wld hve given the opportunity to run Lolipops and keep them compact. Plus you wld be running 12/12's and not autos.


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## AluminumMonster (Jul 13, 2012)

:yeahthat:  I sure hope he made a seed run before this lol.  I can't imagine buying that many beans for every grow.


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

Sorry guys, got a bit behind here. Will catch the journal up then get to everyones questions .  Thanks for following along!


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*July 3rd HID room*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*July 3rd - LED room*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

July 6th - HID Room


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*July 6th - LED Room
*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*July 8th - HID room*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*July 8th - LED Room*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*July 9th - HID Room*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*July 9th - LED Room*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

13 days in from seed... the move to the independent rooms takes place tomorrow.

As you can clearly see, vegging under the magnum+ and par amp original magnum is completely killing the 1000w dual arc HID... everything is the exact same in terms of medium and nutes being fed to these plants, the only difference is the light source!!!


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*13 days from seed HID...*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*13 days from seed under LED...*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

14 days from seed... ladies were watered today and divided into the seperate rooms. Plants vegged under LED have been marked. It is obvious that the HID plants are suffering from some sort of PH problem. I will be measuring PH and PPM starting tomorrow. The LED vegged plants show no signs of PH problems.


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*14 days from seed under HID...*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*14 days from seed under LED...*


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

*Plants moved to individual rooms...*







​


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## reddfata (Jul 15, 2012)

Each light is at 30 inches abouve the tops of the pots. I will measure PAR values of each room tomorrow as well as spectral output of each light...


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## reddfata (Jul 24, 2012)

Plants have been in the individual rooms now for 2 days... I had to back off the HID by 5 inches because it was burning the plants. Ph issues are present so I will be obtaining a new ph / ppm meter on Monday to fix that issue. So far the Magnum+ is looking the best and the Apollo 10 is looking pretty good also. The 336x plants seem to be the same and the HID plants got some heat damage. Watered yesterday and just fed them now. Here come the pics...


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## nouvellechef (Jul 24, 2012)

Any kind of set back. Esp PH, for the most part, will negate this whole side by side. It will simply just take them too long to recover and make up lost time. Side by sides are really tough all around. Just soo many variables. I have seen lots show a few pics of led grows vs HID, well documented too. It always comes down to everyone talking about cost savings on killowatt savings. Thats fie and all, but if grower A, uses the cheapest bottled nutrients and LED's and gets x number of grams in yield and grower B uses a HID and organic amendments for the whole cycle and harvests x number of grams. It will negate the net cost per gram based(killowatts used) on using very very very cheap organic amendments vs bottled nutrients. 

But anyhow, best of luck.


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 24, 2012)

:ciao: good to see you posting as just one person


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## Parcero (Jul 27, 2012)

Cool stuff.

Keep it up.

Good luck.


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## WeedHopper (Jul 27, 2012)

Your HID plants are stretching because the light cannot be put any closer to those little seedlings. They look a little burnt to me even from that distance.
T5s would be much better then HID for such small plants, cause ya can set those T5s right on top the plants.
Bet ya can set those LEDS right on top of them too,which is where they need to be to maxamize those LEDS.
Cool test, but those seedlings are gonna have problems with a 1000 watt Hid.:icon_smile:


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