# Regarding LED quality



## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

So I'm back to plead for more knowledge, this time it's the lights.

I keep reading that cheap LED's tend to produce small buds. So I'm confused about the nature of a cheap LED. I have one that looks like most of the others, round corner rectangle with fans and 60/10 watt bulbs. I bought it through Walmart for 55 bucks. It has a 3 year warranty. So my question is... is that considered a "cheap" LED, as in maybe poor quality lights or could they mean this applies to idiots who take 20 LED pantry lights and try to grow with them?

And while we're talking about it... how many plants do you recommend for each light as I know I'll need more for the extra plants? 

BTW... my current plant I started out like 2o inches below it, but it's now only about 10 inches below the light and shows no signs of distress at all... so that makes me wonder if it's an issue too.

And ... what makes a healthy leave cup in rows between the veins. I have  ONE leaf doing that.

Thanks.


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## No Clue (Jan 18, 2019)

Sounds like you have a lot more research to do! I grow with LED because I have no venting for hot lights (I grow in homemade tents) and I can’t afford the electric bills! There is tons of info online. What you will find is that the LED lights do not penetrate the canopy as well as the other lights so you will do better with SCROG. I have several lights each supposedly giving me 600 watts worth of light. I use one per plant when I do not SCROG. (My setup is very small—can only flower 3 at a time) . The other nice thing about LEDs is that you can put your lights very close to the girls. Mine stay about 6 or 8 inches from them and they love it. Maybe my buds are smaller than they would be but for my situation LEDs are the only way I can grow and my children (32 and 34 y.o.) are VERY happy with my grows so it must work o.k.!! (They are both medicinal users—I do not use it myself as I am a nurse).  I hope that helps a little!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 18, 2019)

Be sure and read the info for the lights you use.  My LEDs need to be about 2' from the canopy to get the best performance.

If you want to put your lights right up next to your plants, I would suggest using T5s.

Also, ventilation is for more than cooling lights.  For proper photosynthesis, your plants need a continual supply of fresh air (CO2). 

I would say that anything under about $400-500 is considered a cheap LED.  The good ones are $1000 or more.


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

Well OK, lots to consider then. I'll probably not grow more than a half dozen at a time. The smells aren't an issue because it's legal here now but I don't want to advertise either. Thank you for the detailed input!


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## Locked (Jan 18, 2019)

Pete said:


> So I'm back to plead for more knowledge, this time it's the lights.
> 
> I keep reading that cheap LED's tend to produce small buds. So I'm confused about the nature of a cheap LED. I have one that looks like most of the others, round corner rectangle with fans and 60/10 watt bulbs. I bought it through Walmart for 55 bucks. It has a 3 year warranty. So my question is... is that considered a "cheap" LED, as in maybe poor quality lights or could they mean this applies to idiots who take 20 LED pantry lights and try to grow with them?
> 
> ...



I use King LED's. one 1200 (135 US Dollars) and one 1500 (150 US Dollars) in a 4x4x6.5 Flowering Tent. This was my last harvest. No small buds.


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## Locked (Jan 18, 2019)

I run 4 to 6 plants in my 4x4x6.5 Flowering tent. Strain an phenotype has a lot to do with yield. The strongest smoke I have ever had was called Hippy Slayer. It would only produce 2 ounces dry in the same tent where a strain called Boysenberry would put out 3 to 4 ounces dry per plant.


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## St_Nick (Jan 18, 2019)

Based on your description of your light, I'd guess you are square in the ""cheap" spectrum of the Led band of light.  Name brands these days from the Chinese market are considered "by me" to be mid-range and offer a good value for money spent.  Top tier lights are really more designed for pros and serious hobbyist who get a boner over having the best of everything.  The truth is a given area of space whether 3x3 or 4x4 or whatever will produce a given amount of weed assuming you provide the correct amount of light. You can choose from any number of different types of lights these days and do very well.  Do some research and find a good one in your price range.  I do suggest staying with previously discovered and well reviewed lights though.  There are a ton of overhyped lights out there.


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

Hamster Lewis said:


> I run 4 to 6 plants in my 4x4x6.5 Flowering tent. Strain an phenotype has a lot to do with yield. The strongest smoke I have ever had was called Hippy Slayer. It would only produce 2 ounces dry in the same tent where a strain called Boysenberry would put out 3 to 4 ounces dry per plant.


I am pretty sure I've never seen a bud the size of a pop can. Those are beautiful. Is it Indica?


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## Locked (Jan 18, 2019)

Pete said:


> I am pretty sure I've never seen a bud the size of a pop can. Those are beautiful. Is it Indica?



No it is a hybrid that leans more towards Sativa. Head high with a great buzz and energy. I have been running her for a couple years now. I lost all my clones but luckily got about 50-60 seeds off a couple plants that selfed themselves. So all those beans are fem beans.


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## St_Nick (Jan 18, 2019)

I don't remember where I heard this but in my experience it rings pretty well true.  "for maximum yield you need 66 watts per square foot of light"  Now that is a rule I tried to adhere to in my HPS days but it is pretty well true of leds as well.  We're talking wall watts here with one gram per watt considered to be a well established grow.  The advantage of led is the lower cost involved in reaching that number.


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

St_Nick said:


> Based on your description of your light, I'd guess you are square in the ""cheap" spectrum of the Led band of light.  Name brands these days from the Chinese market are considered "by me" to be mid-range and offer a good value for money spent.  Top tier lights are really more designed for pros and serious hobbyist who get a boner over having the best of everything.  The truth is a given area of space whether 3x3 or 4x4 or whatever will produce a given amount of weed assuming you provide the correct amount of light. You can choose from any number of different types of lights these days and do very well.  Do some research and find a good one in your price range.  I do suggest staying with previously discovered and well reviewed lights though.  There are a ton of overhyped lights out there.


That's a great breakdown. And I will look into it more for sure. My grow needs won't likely exceed a half dozen plants and the one I've learned on is doing great so I may try a couple more of the same lights then next year maybe shell out for something more serious.


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

Hamster Lewis said:


> No it is a hybrid that leans more towards Sativa. Head high with a great buzz and energy. I have been running her for a couple years now. I lost all my clones but luckily got about 50-60 seeds off a couple plants that selfed themselves. So all those beans are fem beans.


I aspire to make my small garden as potent as I can. I'm more of a Kush guy so I'm waiting on some OG seeds supposed to be here any day now. I'm going to try cloning soon, but I want to be really prepared. I'm one of those people who can make one little mistake into a Bikini atoll. So I am curious how you lost your clones. Do they reach a point where they just aren't viable anymore or did you have a disaster? Nice collection of beans ya got there too... the girls didn't abandon you entirely.


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## Locked (Jan 18, 2019)

Pete said:


> I aspire to make my small garden as potent as I can. I'm more of a Kush guy so I'm waiting on some OG seeds supposed to be here any day now. I'm going to try cloning soon, but I want to be really prepared. I'm one of those people who can make one little mistake into a Bikini atoll. So I am curious how you lost your clones. Do they reach a point where they just aren't viable anymore or did you have a disaster? Nice collection of beans ya got there too... the girls didn't abandon you entirely.



Getting cloning down is a fundamental to having a perpetual grow. When I pop beans I always clone any females I get and then once I see a great pheno I drop all other clones and clone that pheno aggressively so that I can run her as many times as possible before I shut down in early Summer. I try to get at least a pound dry to put away for the months between my next grow. I lost my clones because keeping them alive and healthy for months at a time while not flowering is tough. I shut down for about 4 months and keeping mother plants alive and happy in the summer here in NJ is tough. Too much heat. I have in the past put my cuts in the fridge for up to a month before rooting them and it worked but it is still hit and miss. Most people avoid selfed beans like the plague but I have come to love them. It lets me keep a copy of that great smoke in bean form for later use.


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

St_Nick said:


> I don't remember where I heard this but in my experience it rings pretty well true.  "for maximum yield you need 66 watts per square foot of light"  Now that is a rule I tried to adhere to in my HPS days but it is pretty well true of leds as well.  We're talking wall watts here with one gram per watt considered to be a well established grow.  The advantage of led is the lower cost involved in reaching that number.


My grow room at the moment is a shower stall I'll be tearing out during some remodeling this year and is about 10 square feet. But having said that, it doesn't seem like the one light would be enough. And I will have a minimum of 4 to 6 plants so in that regard it seems that at least two 600w LED's will be necessary. Not to mention you can only fit one under a light anyway. So does any of that thread into what you think?


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

Lewis... you keep clones refrigerated? Is that the usual method? I always wonder how you manage the lighting when you keep cuts relatively dormant. Also, what is your preferred dip for rooting?


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

I'm really not too lazy to spend hours on the web understanding the processes. I am one of those people who cannot make sense of the vastness of information so the possibility of avoiding sketchy information in a forum like this is nearly 100%.  I can stay focused on smaller blocks of information. My cognitive skills are like waves... some days it works, most days no. So I'm very grateful for everyone's attention and interest. Great place.


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## Locked (Jan 18, 2019)

I have to say I would not breed with them. Just use them for personal use.


Pete said:


> Lewis... you keep clones refrigerated? Is that the usual method? I always wonder how you manage the lighting when you keep cuts relatively dormant. Also, what is your preferred dip for rooting?



A couple of years ago I did an experiment to see how long I could keep clones refrigerated and still keep them viable. 1 month was the limit for me. At 5 weeks they did not root. It is not the usual method. Most times you take your cut, prep it, dip it, and root it.  I use Clonex rooting gel. https://www.epicgardening.com/best-rooting-hormones/

If you are going to try and keep a clone alive for an extended period of time and conditions don't allow for a mother plant then I find cloning the clone as a good method. Basically you root a clone, wait for it to get just big enough to take one or 2 cuts off of it and then root those clones. Once the roots take you kill the mother plant and repeat the process for as long as you need to. Clones need very little light compared to a mother plant. I usually use a single small CFL bulb.


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## Pete (Jan 18, 2019)

I hope you got Bud of the Month for that monster.


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## umbra (Jan 18, 2019)

I use dip n gro. When looking at the output of leds, the 66 watt number Nick gave means nothing. Leds are measured in PAR ( photosynthethically active radiation) not watts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation
If you are too lazy to look stuff up, maybe you should just buy weed. Growing isn't for everybody and it is work to get good at it.


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## St_Nick (Jan 18, 2019)

umbra said:


> When looking at the output of leds, the 66 watt number Nick gave means nothing. Leds are measured in PAR ( photosynthethically active radiation) not watts.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Photosynthetically_active_radiation


You are absolutely correct.  However,  way back in the day, a person would say a requirement for maximum production in a 4x6 tent would start with a 1000 watt gavida. That light is by anyones standards a top of the line fixture and still used in a lot of gardens.  It generates a true and realistic 750 par using 66 watts of power/per square foot from the wall.  My Leds use 248 watts at the wall to generate 480 par under the light. But out at the borders of the area the par dropoff is terrible.  That's why the low power high wattage lights like the spyder are so effective.  
they don't have blaster high par numbers but their design allows even coverage over a measured area.  High power low wattage lights like mine will penetrate more like a hps but the coverage falls off rapidly as you approach the boundaries.  In the end though, the rule still holds true.  It takes roughly 66 watts of consumed power per square ft. to maximize efficiency of a grow area, no matter the .  The reason I use this reference is because Pete said he is after knowledge, the implication I took was he probably understood watts, might not understand micromoles, par and the calculatin necessary to figger it all out.  If you buy a King 1500 or a Mars whatever or a viparspectra what you will find is with these middle of the road leds, 10sq ft area needs about 600 true watts of led power.​


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## St_Nick (Jan 18, 2019)

Now that's just my opinion based on my experience but I did sleep at a budget inn once


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## umbra (Jan 18, 2019)

St_Nick said:


> Now that's just my opinion based on my experience but I did sleep at a budget inn once


No problem with your explanation. You are correct. I look at micro mole/joule both the PPF and efficacy as well as total electrical power.


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## Growdude (Jan 19, 2019)

St_Nick said:


> That's why the low power high wattage lights like the spyder are so effective.  ​




What is a high wattage low power light?  Watts and power are the same thing.​


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## umbra (Jan 19, 2019)

I think Nick has mixed electrical and optical measurements together, I think he meant something like high PAR, and low power consuming leds like the spydr are so effective.


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## St_Nick (Jan 19, 2019)

What he said!


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## umbra (Jan 19, 2019)

If you want to look at the PAR, it is a measurement of energy, ie micro mole per joule. I think that is where the confusion starts. It is a measure of power, optical PAR, that range of wavelengths that the plant sees from 400 nm to 800 nm. So while electrical power = voltage x current and that measurement is in watts, you are correct in your statement, but it doesn't apply to the micro mole/joule power, only electrical power. Clear as mud right?


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## Growdude (Jan 19, 2019)

thxs i get it


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## Pete (Jan 19, 2019)

As mud. 

Think I'll stay my novice a$$ out of the lighting business.


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## St_Nick (Jan 19, 2019)

Pete said:


> As mud.
> 
> Think I'll stay my novice a$$ out of the lighting business.


You will be fine . If you grow a bushy resin plant you nailed it.   If not, you'll have some learning and can do better next time


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## umbra (Jan 19, 2019)

Everybody over thinks the whole thing. It's a plant ...to get good at this you will kill many plants. It's how we learn


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## Pete (Jan 19, 2019)

I don't have "many" plants to kill. So overthinking are the notes I draw my final conclusions from. Don't you?


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## umbra (Jan 19, 2019)

There is a process of skills. It starts with germinating, then vegging, then flowering. Being able to go from seed to dried bud. While the type of lighting can impact the final product, T5 lights can grow plants from seed to bud. Leds can do it also, but until you can go from seed to bud successfully the finer points of growing that we are talking about have little


Pete said:


> I don't have "many" plants to kill. So overthinking are the notes I draw my final conclusions from. Don't you?


Some give up after their first time and some don't. All the research is great but it's not a replacement for experience.


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## oldfogey8 (Jan 24, 2019)

The best buds I’ve grown were grown from seed under t5’s start to finish. very dense buds, good tasting and powerful smoke. See in my signature the link to the buckeye purple and Thai grows. I am still learning with my LED(king 1200). I don’t think I have enough PAR with the 1200 and probably should get another 1200 or 1500 but I am sure I will exceed my best grows that I had with t5’s. Not in the budget for now though. In the end, you will kill your plants because you want to smoke them. You will make mistakes and have success as well. Grow for the fun of it and you will learn what cannabis likes and doesn’t. All the advice and help from all these master growers will help but only experience and genetics will get you coke can sized buds and 30+% THC buds. I screwed up my first grow really badly but it was still some of the best smoke I’d had to that point because it was mine.


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## Locked (Jan 24, 2019)

As long as you keep the PH of Nutrients and water in the correct range, establish a long enough Dark period during Flowering and feed even close to often enough you will get some bud at the end. How much and its quality is where fine tuning comes in. It can take several grows. 

When I am about to put down a Mother Plant for size and age reasons I take some cuts, wait for roots and then experiment on the Mother Plant to see the different effects different things will have on them. Right now I have 2 Moms that are flowering in 24-7 light after being neglected nutrition and watering wise.  Once I started feeding them a Flowering mix they started budding up nicely. Not sure what to make of it yet. Could be a combination of the stress causing the plant to hermie and try and save itself. I figure the Flower Nutes just sped things up. 

Get the basics down and then start tinkering. jmo


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## Devile (Jan 25, 2019)

There are many cheap leds on Ebay and Amazon, no warranty, certificate, Spectrum, PAR test picture, they also like to use fake theme of products to attract customers. If you read this essay, it will help you to choose right led: 
https://www.mars-hydro.com/info/did-you-buy-real-1000w-led-grow-light.html


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## Pete (Jan 28, 2019)

umbra said:


> There is a process of skills. It starts with germinating, then vegging, then flowering. Being able to go from seed to dried bud. While the type of lighting can impact the final product, T5 lights can grow plants from seed to bud. Leds can do it also, but until you can go from seed to bud successfully the finer points of growing that we are talking about have little
> 
> Some give up after their first time and some don't. All the research is great but it's not a replacement for experience.



Couldn't agree more. I've always been one to go too far to the point of mental chaos over too much information. But in the end, that's how I imagine lots of people function. 

And I understand your point on starting out anxious and losing interest once the true level of expertise needed to do well shows up. I'm sitting on an acoustic guitar kit I paid over $1000 on 13 years ago. Part way in, the full magnitude arrested my brains and now I have an awesome, high end guitar that somebody will buy from me and finish building some day. ... the best laid plans.....


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## umbra (Jan 28, 2019)

2RedEyes is a luthier, maybe he can help you finish it


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## Pete (Jan 29, 2019)

umbra said:


> 2RedEyes is a luthier, maybe he can help you finish it


No kidding? I will touch base, thanks.


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## Capt. Stabby (Jan 29, 2019)

Nice plant Hamster!


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## Locked (Jan 29, 2019)

Capt. Stabby said:


> Nice plant Hamster!


Thanks Cap.


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## 2RedEyes (Jan 30, 2019)

Pete, where are you in terms of your acoustic guitar build? It can be daunting but it can also be done...


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## Lawrenc Smith (Jan 31, 2019)

Pete said:


> Couldn't agree more. I've always been one to go too far to the point of mental chaos over too much information. But in the end, that's how I imagine lots of people function.
> 
> And I understand your point on starting out anxious and losing interest once the true level of expertise needed to do well shows up. I'm sitting on an acoustic guitar kit I paid over $1000 on 13 years ago. Part way in, the full magnitude arrested my brains and now I have an awesome, high end guitar that somebody will buy from me and finish building some day. ... the best laid plans.....


I am a guitarist and I've been told by my luthier that sometimes kits are good but need special tools to put the kit together.  That has kept me away from building an acoustic, although I am considering building an electric.  I read some replies here so I hope you finish the kit.  Back to this topic, I am on my first grow operation and noticed I was "overthinking" everything I was doing.  I have settled down and am only researching what I need to know for the stage my plants are in. They are in the flowering stage and so I am really in uncharted territory!


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## 2RedEyes (Jan 31, 2019)

It’s just as easy to make a mistake building a guitar as it is growing weed...at least mistakes in the build are appearant...you can see what you did wrong... lotta times I just wonder what I did wrong with my grow...All these practices require Practice!


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## Pete (Feb 1, 2019)

2RedEyes said:


> Pete, where are you in terms of your acoustic guitar build? It can be daunting but it can also be done...


At this point, I have the sides with all the braces and kerfing done and a top with all the bracing and the back and bracing.


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## Pete (Feb 1, 2019)

Lawrenc Smith said:


> I am a guitarist and I've been told by my luthier that sometimes kits are good but need special tools to put the kit together.  That has kept me away from building an acoustic, although I am considering building an electric.  I read some replies here so I hope you finish the kit.  Back to this topic, I am on my first grow operation and noticed I was "overthinking" everything I was doing.  I have settled down and am only researching what I need to know for the stage my plants are in. They are in the flowering stage and so I am really in uncharted territory!



Maybe your luthier doesn't want the competition? I tooled up for this kit and there are a few things for sure but outside of the saddle spacer (45 bucks), some small bullnose planers, maybe ten bucks each, you probably have most of the tools you need at home, and there again, depending on how much you want to do as opposed to pre-made parts. It can get pricey if you want to shape the sides with radial disks and do some power planing or make arch tops from scratch. You should check out some of the cheapo builds on youtube. These guys make amazing acoustics with plywood and dog snot.... nothing specialized at all. Maybe they're possessed, I don't know.

I'm pretty much relegated to each stage like you but I've had some really great people here respond with tons of help that has given me a leg up for sure. I'm gonna remain guilty of overthinking and over-everything on the first plant, after that, probably like the second child... it can do whatever it wants as long as it's home when the street lights come on.


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## Pete (Feb 1, 2019)

2RedEyes said:


> It’s just as easy to make a mistake building a guitar as it is growing weed...at least mistakes in the build are appearant...you can see what you did wrong... lotta times I just wonder what I did wrong with my grow...All these practices require Practice!



2RedEyes for President.


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## Aksarben (Mar 4, 2019)

At this link:  https://www.growweedeasy.com/lux-meter   it shows measurement for LUX, which would seem an easy solution to follow over PAR, or am I missing something?    It also stated in the beginning of the article that LUX does not work for LED lighting.  Wonder why that is?


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## oldfogey8 (Mar 4, 2019)

Lux is a measurement of light as perceived by the human eye. PAR is concerned with photosynthesis which is more pertinent to growing plants than how our eyes see the light.


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## umbra (Mar 4, 2019)

couldn't have said it better. They make PAR meters just for this. Most are pricey and unless you are growing in a warehouse, you will only use it a couple of times when first setting up a garden.


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## Aksarben (Mar 4, 2019)

My little plant, under the dual SANSI  LED lights.  THey have full spectrum including green.






Coming out of a node....


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## oldfogey8 (Mar 4, 2019)

More light would help the plant be more compact. Not trying to be a jerk, but you will need a lot more light to flower under.


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## Aksarben (Mar 4, 2019)

I have another plant, OG Kush Auto on the right side in smaller pot.  It is growing pretty compact.  This one you see, I have no clue to what it is.  It was from MSNL seeds and was a "premium feminized mix" bag of seeds.  Cheap, but no clue to what it is.   Other plants are oranges, and a banana.  Yes I live in SW Michigan.  One can  hope for fruit someday.  Can't wait for it to warm up around here and move things outside.   Right now, March 4th, only 8 degrees outside,,  windy.... snowy (lake effect) so blowing snow as well.  Where's that mangy groundhog????


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## umbra (Mar 4, 2019)

When I lived on the East Coast I grew oranges, lemons, limes, tangerines, and bananas


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## Devile (Mar 5, 2019)

oldfogey8 said:


> More light would help the plant be more compact. Not trying to be a jerk, but you will need a lot more light to flower under.



When I changed my no brand led 37W/SF to my Mars proII1600 led, 46W/SF, it help increase my yields


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## Alexphillips (Mar 17, 2019)

Cheap LEDs do not give desired results because they made with using low quality material to keep their cost as low as possible. if you really want to grow healthy plants buy a branded LED like MarsHydro, Advanced Platinum, Zooped LED, COB LED, KIng Plus etc . Check their current price online


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## Aksarben (Mar 17, 2019)

To me cheap LED is a 8 dollar bulb.  I paid about $40.00 a piece for  my 2 SANI LED lights.  Things are growing great with them, but I did not specifically choose them because of the cost, but more on the quality of the light spectrum.  In LED  40 watts (actually are around 37W) is not the same light intensity as a regular incandescent bulb.  More lie 4x the luminosity.  I know then they go off in the early evening, it seems strangely dark in that area of our living room.  The 2 are like a HUGE amount of light, in full spectrum.  Once can channel more of the light with just a little trick of using Mylar and increase light effect for a larger distance.


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## Growdude (Mar 18, 2019)

oldfogey8 said:


> More light would help the plant be more compact. Not trying to be a jerk, but you will need a lot more light to flower under.



Agree 100%
Almost anything will veg. Also doesn't sound like its in total darkness, going to have problems in flower.


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## Aksarben (Mar 18, 2019)

Growdude said:


> Agree 100%
> Almost anything will veg. Also doesn't sound like its in total darkness, going to have problems in flower.


Probably not totally dark until around 1 AM around here.  I have thought of moving it into our spare bathroom that has NO windows, in the late afternoon, and just shutting the door.   However, I also figured I'd pot it in a new grow bag I recently bought, and move it outdoors.  Weather is not co-operating with me though.  Most nights are in the 20s.   Can't wait for spring!!    I figured once in the grow bag  I can put it in the wagon, and move it into nice light in the back yard (live in the country and yes, Michigan now allows us to grow 12 plants)  and in the latter part of the afternoon just moving it into our metal shed and shutting  the door until nightfall, then moving it back out again for the next day.  Pain in the butt but would otherwise probably vegetate all summer long until around Sept 22.  Now, the problem with SW Michigan, close to the lake, is that we get really rainy weather in late September and into October and November.  I work at a winery and there is always issues with rain and harvest, and sometimes some of our grapes, like Vignoles,  put so much water into the berries that they cause bursting int he cluster and then sour rot starts to take ahold, along with other fungus problems like powder mildew, downy mildew.... etc.   So want to avoid late fall flowering.


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## elliek (May 21, 2019)

Aksarben said:


> To me cheap LED is a 8 dollar bulb.  I paid about $40.00 a piece for  my 2 SANI LED lights.  Things are growing great with them, but I did not specifically choose them because of the cost, but more on the quality of the light spectrum.  In LED  40 watts (actually are around 37W) is not the same light intensity as a regular incandescent bulb.  More lie 4x the luminosity.  I know then they go off in the early evening, it seems strangely dark in that area of our living room.  The 2 are like a HUGE amount of light, in full spectrum.  Once can channel more of the light with just a little trick of using Mylar and increase light effect for a larger distance.



I have used a 600w Lush Lighting system for the last three years, at 2 plants per grow, once a year. The lighting has produced ~ 4 oz from each plant during the first two years,  Stacked Kush(4 oz / plant) the last was Cookies Kush (5 oz per plant). The Lush LEDs seem to be able to penetrate right to the bottom of the plant. LEDs less heat, less electric. I cannot get closer than 18" from the tops with the Lushes or they will burn the plants. I think they are remarkable after I've used HIDs & MHs for 12 years before.


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