# How to fully automate my grow? (Advanced users answer)



## LegendaryGT (Nov 28, 2008)

Hey all. I want to fully automate my grow so that I can start getting exact numbers, and begin logging and analyzing statistical data. I want to use this to produce the best quality of buds.

Basic stats:
- DWC
- 25-60 plants
- 2 rooms, one veg with MH and one flower with HPS
- The rest is basic

I need ANY ideas/solutions/aid you have concerning automation. So far, I have determined that I need the following:


- A digital thermometer & humidity gauge with an LCD display. (This will not control anything, simply measure temp and humidity. We will connect this to our universal controller.)
- A continuous digital TDS meter. (This will measure PPM/pH and connect to our universal controller)
- pH probes (Goes with the TDS meter, if they don't have them, or need more.)
- Advanced digital high load timers (To automate lighting, Co2 injection, and feeding Schedules. These are basic timers, however I may not need these if my universal controller is apt enough, any thoughts about this guys?)
- Optional Metering Pumps (These will actually disperse the pH adjuster and nutrient solutions into the reservoir.) 

Basically, the goal is that all the sensors/meters will transmit their information to a universal software application that then controls all the actual processes. In fact, I need to make a general list of corresponding processes, i.e. which processes should be linked?

Examples:
- Turn off the co2 when the lights are off
- Turn on the auxiliary fan when it becomes too hot
- Turn off co2 when it becomes too hot or humid

What are some other ones? When is the optimal time for feeding...? With the lights on or off? Because that would be another one.

I see many problems with it truly being automated. Mainly, the fact I don't know of any software that will be able to control all these facets in a price range that's reasonable (I see some going for 2500 dollars). Some are cheaper, but have less features.

What features could I get away with not having fully automated and logged?

I'm thinking if the lights are on their own timer would be fine... Since I will never want the lights being changed automatically. Also, the air pumps will not be automated as they will be on 24/7.

I'm just trying to jot down some ideas and get the gears moving. I really need help on this so give me anything!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 28, 2008)

How many tens of thousands of dollars do you have to spend on this?


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## LegendaryGT (Nov 28, 2008)

Well that's what I mean... I don't want to go crazy with spending. I'm going to be building everything and buying everything as raw as possible. The pricey things will be the universal controller and the various sensors.

So let's say the budget is 2000.

Lights: 500
Seeds: 50
Rockwool: 25
Hydroton: 25
Liquid pumps: 100
Air pumps: 150
Air stones: 50
Cabinet materials: 300 *Includes tubs, mylar, screws, wood, zipper, hooks, etc.)
Fans: 150
Fertz: 100
Thermometer: 60
pH meter: 40
Timers/Power accessories: 50
Tools: 100 (Anything we don't have, but need and can't borrow)

Which leaves 200 dollars for this universal controller. Everything is a rough estimate and could cost more or less, and I haven't listed everything but I think it's a fair estimate. But this universal controller is crucial for automating everything. If I can't find one for under $400 then I will just do a normal DWC, which will bring down the cost of a lot of other things.

Again, if anyone has any advice or answers to my questions, please speak up! Serious answers only please!


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Nov 28, 2008)

buddy... for one thing, IMO... yer dreaming... this is something that a team of people would need to work on to engineer, design and implement... and it would probably take this team months to do the project... and yer estimations on cost... well... let's just say..."yer dreaming"...

almost NOTHING ever goes to plan...

is this yer first grow?... just keep it basic and get at least one under yer belt so that you have a much better understanding of the aspects of this hobby.

it's just my opinion... and after all... I'm just some crazy guy from Vancouver, Canada....  

it's like... u wanna grow bud?...or throw money into a pit?....


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## Growdude (Nov 28, 2008)

One day I will do this, I work with industrial automation and have thought about this quite abit.
Main costs for me would be the dosers for PH and nutes because I would use a PLC or programable logic controler.

None of which can be bought for $200 and you would need to know how to program it, wire it and have the software for it.

I would do it just for the novilty but would be handy.


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## Growdude (Nov 28, 2008)

LegendaryGT said:
			
		

> Well that's what I mean... I don't want to go crazy with spending. I'm going to be building everything and buying everything as raw as possible. The pricey things will be the universal controller and the various sensors.
> 
> So let's say the budget is 2000.
> 
> ...


 
Your not even close on costs your going to need some kind of doser. as well as a controler for all the other functions you would need to automate like CO2/ventilation water levels and height of your lighting.
hxxp://hydroharrys.com/catalog/product_info.php/cPath/12/products_id/1687?osCsid=24303c6645cfd6f24decdd809e865987


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## Lastritez (Nov 28, 2008)

If this is your first grow, and TCVG says, just keep it basic, get some idea of what YOU need to do everyday to care for the plants, cos if for some reason something goes wrogn with all the gadgets and you have to wait 1 - 4 weeks for a replacement, your plants will still need caring for in that time.

IMO making everything automated removes some of the pleasure of growing, but having said that I would be interested in seeing the results and what your findings are.

Good luck!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 28, 2008)

LegendaryGT said:
			
		

> Well that's what I mean... I don't want to go crazy with spending. I'm going to be building everything and buying everything as raw as possible. The pricey things will be the universal controller and the various sensors.
> 
> So let's say the budget is 2000.
> 
> ...



You are actually probably a little under budgeted for a "normal DWC", especially if you are going to try and set up 2 grow rooms.  Fir instance, I do not think that you can find a quality pH meter for $40 and you also need calibration fluid and pH up and down.  I am with the others--I do not really think an automated system is realistic.  Start small and learn how to grow.  There are a lot of rewards to the "hands-on" approach to growing.


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## LegendaryGT (Nov 29, 2008)

All of you stated that I should grow basic first, and then move up. Don't be fooled, just because I'm new to this site does not mean I'm new to growing. I've got over 30 harvests under my belt.

*Vancouver Guy:* 
I'm currently in university and although my major is not in engineering, I have several buddies majoring in mechanical and electrical engineering. They would definitely be able to help me with the technical side of things. I don't expect them to do anything overly complex, just minor things such as working with the software, integration, etc. I've already stated that there will be more costs and extras and am prepared to go a bit over budget. Thanks for the criticism though, it always helps to be brought down to earth.

*Grow dude:*
I would love to talk more if your interested in automated grows. If by 'dosers', you mean the pumps that would draw fluid from the nutes and pH solutions, then I had accounted for them under 'liquid pumps'. Perhaps 100 bucks is a bit low, maybe 200 is a bit more realistic as I made need a few. 

I understand that universal controllers (PLC) are expensive, as I stated in my first post but I was just wondering how cheap they can go. I've found a decent one for just under $500. The link you provided is good, but there are far cheaper models available if you go looking. Also, I have knowledgeable friends who could help me with programming it, and hopefully I could find some open-source software or freeware that could help me out.

*Lastritez: *
I've done enough grunt work to have already 'enjoyed' the manual process of growing. I'm looking to further my hobby and I'm really interested to create a database of statistics and analyze that data to figure out trends for optimal conditions. I want to perfect the art of growing!

*THG:* 
I realize $40 is a little low for a high-quality digital pH meter but it's just an estimate, and I can save money if I can get one unit that does pH, temp and nutrients. 


I realize that this will be hard to accomplish but I like to entertain the idea. This will be a small-time grow op in commercial terms, but rest assured, this is for commercial purposes. If it wasn't for lack of space, I'd be going a lot bigger.

Perhaps people were confused by my post count, but I am not a beginner, so any concrete help would be awesome! Criticism is good too I guess. Lets me get both sides of it... but I'm going to have to pull the trigger soon on how I want to do this. I want to get the seeds germinated by mid-December.


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Nov 29, 2008)

right on, man... ya sound like ya know what yer getting yerself into :aok:

good luck, man... although... I'd be a little worried about all my "college buddies" knowing about my grow... but, if ya got it covered... all the power to ya, man... i'm sure everyone here would be eager to lend their support....


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## Growdude (Nov 29, 2008)

LegendaryGT said:
			
		

> *Grow dude:*
> I would love to talk more if your interested in automated grows. If by 'dosers', you mean the pumps that would draw fluid from the nutes and pH solutions, then I had accounted for them under 'liquid pumps'. Perhaps 100 bucks is a bit low, maybe 200 is a bit more realistic as I made need a few.
> 
> I understand that universal controllers (PLC) are expensive, as I stated in my first post but I was just wondering how cheap they can go. I've found a decent one for just under $500. The link you provided is good, but there are far cheaper models available if you go looking. Also, I have knowledgeable friends who could help me with programming it, and hopefully I could find some open-source software or freeware that could help me out.


 
Do you have a link to the "pump" that you are talking about?

Do you have a link to the PLC for $500?  I would like to see what kind your looking at.
With a PLC you need to have the right I/O and I dont know of one that can input PH, thats why you need the doser.
It monitors PH and adds the proper amounts of PH up or down needed to the feed water.
Also your PLC needs to be able to handle the analog inputs such as temps.
most all have temp. input modules that will snap into the rack.

Here is a picture of a PLC project from my work. This just uses 2 basic I/O cards, relay out and 24v input.


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## Weezy (Nov 29, 2008)

Damn man...I spent $150 on ventilation for my 400 watt, 120 for a cab, 140 on seeds, etc etc...jesus I must be throwing money in a pit if someone thinks they can do a two room setup for what is stated...hah.

And letting all your college buddies know all this...cmon man wake up


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## Puffin Afatty (Nov 29, 2008)

*the problem is $$$, those automated injectors are pricey, but if you get the nutes balanced correctly, I think you can go 1 month between checking/adjusting, that said, I've lost crops to various disasters over the years when I left for more than a week or so 

the real issue isnt ppm, that is fairly easy to predict and alter with addition of water on a set timer, but ph can be a real hassle unless you have it stable, very very stable :hubba: 

I once had my res so stable that I didnt need to adjust for 6-8 months, got complacent and almost killed another crop 

I almost bought the controller [shown in a thread here somewhere] I think it was hanna instruments :aok: *


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## LegendaryGT (Nov 29, 2008)

Weezy said:
			
		

> Damn man...I spent $150 on ventilation for my 400 watt, 120 for a cab, 140 on seeds, etc etc...jesus I must be throwing money in a pit if someone thinks they can do a two room setup for what is stated...hah.
> 
> And letting all your college buddies know all this...cmon man wake up



I stated the estimated costs in my second post, you don't think any of them are close?


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## Weezy (Nov 29, 2008)

What I'm saying is the $150 6" Vortex that I have is (although overkill for me) not enough for a two room setup. I spent almost half of the $2000 on my personal 400 watt cab...that is organic. 

I just do not see it feasible unless we have a different opinion on what a "two-room setup" is. Hell, I guess I could buy all the DWC stuff and another cab and put them in two different rooms and call it a two room setup and get it all around $2000 but it sure wouldn't be automated. I just cannot picture something costing around $2000 that would be that big and do everything automated so you just sit there and pay the elec. bill. 

On a side note: I do enjoy spending time with my "hobby" and giving all the TLC I can but then again im a "hands-on" kind of person. I like to do everything myself without much assistance with labor

It also bothers me that this "setup" would cost only $40 for seeds...unless you start very small and work up.  It just seems to me that a legit setup would hope to incur more of a variety of seeds...


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## LegendaryGT (Nov 29, 2008)

No need to have a variety... bag it and tag it and send it out the door.

I understand 2000 is low for this kind of setup, but I would be willing to go over budget like I said if it was a good deal. I have built quite a few cabs in my day, so we'll see if this one proves to be different but I should be able to do a good but basic DWC setup for under 1500 that includes a veg room and a flower room.

And I need more posts before I can post links! This sucks!


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Nov 29, 2008)

bud... just keep relying to your own thread... it will be done fast... no one's gunna complain if you drag on yer own thread....


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Nov 29, 2008)

u know, buddy... the more I think about it, the more this whole idea of yers sound really interesting to see if you can pull it off...

I am thinking about a possible problem for you, however...

you say you want to fully automate it, but to what purpose?... I mean... did you not want to have to visit the grow yerself to do these things yerself?... I find, that is the joy of this hobby... doing all this stuff all the time, as you are rewarded for your efforts with good smoke... but, nevermind me...cuz I was thinking... how are you going to automate the system to notice deficiencies on the plant and when to correctly increase nute strength for maximum yield/potency... mind you, if you wanted to automate all the "normals", but still were active in the grow all the time, you could change all your variables as needed... yet, that seems like a hell of a lot of work as compared to changing as said variables as needed.

quite a lot to think about with your project... (I'd turf the idea myself....)


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## THCPezDispenser (Nov 29, 2008)

Looks good man, following along with interest.


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 29, 2008)

Custom Automated Products already sells full greenhouse controllers. The only thing needed would be a pH controller from Hanna and you need a massive resevoir for the pumps they make. They do not have a small cc injection set-up yet. I run a XGC-1 with universal modules for the lights and fan so I do not overload a circuit. The only thing I have to do in my room is adjust the pH.


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## LegendaryGT (Nov 29, 2008)

That crazy vancouver guy said:
			
		

> u know, buddy... the more I think about it, the more this whole idea of yers sound really interesting to see if you can pull it off...
> 
> I am thinking about a possible problem for you, however...
> 
> ...



I would definitely need to adjust variables as I saw fit. But after awhile (maybe a couple of cycles), I would find the optimal numbers for everything and could leave the grow for increasingly longer periods. 

I would more do this to further the hobby as I have grown weary of the 'grunt work' that was once satisfying. I simply want to analyze data, create some graphs and charts and create some REAL info that can help everyone. But like I said, this is a pipe dream, we'll see if I actually decide to go through with it.


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## andy52 (Nov 29, 2008)

if you can set this up for 2000 it would be lit by candles.i do not have an elaborate setup and i have close to 4000 in my setup.it sure as hell is not automated,unless you call me waking up and staggering over and making sure everything is working.if i did have an automated system,i would still have to check it more often than i do my andy contained system.jmo


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## THCPezDispenser (Nov 29, 2008)

This may come in handy, instructions on how to build your own PPM meter if you are into that kind of stuff 

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34766


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## eastla_kushsmoka (Nov 30, 2008)

Look For Those Super Big Buckets That Trees Come In Get Ur Self A Couple Bags Of Ff Oceanforest A Couple 1000watt Hps Npk Nutes And All Those Lil Side Micro Bacteria Feedin Nutes And U Could Probably Get The Pounds U Need


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## abc123 (Dec 14, 2008)

found this for ya...
hXXp://growtronix.com/store/


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## greenfriend (Dec 21, 2008)

after you've got ur automated setup going you might setup a couple webcams in the room, one looking at the plants so that you can see any deficiencies and one at ur thermometer, hygrometer, other sensors.  u could check up on your plants from a computer anytime, anywhere.  would give you some peace of mind about your investment if you are away from the room for a few days


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## smokingjoe (Dec 21, 2008)

There was a bust a little while ago in outback Queensland where a bloke ha done just that Greenfriend.

He had the perfect setup, fully automated.  

He only got busted when it caught fire.


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## HydroManiac (Dec 21, 2008)

Weezy said:
			
		

> What I'm saying is the $150 6" Vortex that I have is (although overkill for me) not enough for a two room setup. I spent almost half of the $2000 on my personal 400 watt cab...that is organic.
> 
> I just do not see it feasible unless we have a different opinion on what a "two-room setup" is. Hell, I guess I could buy all the DWC stuff and another cab and put them in two different rooms and call it a two room setup and get it all around $2000 but it sure wouldn't be automated. I just cannot picture something costing around $2000 that would be that big and do everything automated so you just sit there and pay the elec. bill.
> 
> ...


 


You spent 1000 USD on a 400 watt HPS cause your gullable


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## diablo_cannabis (Dec 22, 2008)

Nice! I am currently working on completely automating my hydro rooms.

for timers check these out. they work great. you can set up to have each module turn "on" 4 times and "off" 4 times. The control module can be placed anywhere in the house. You can control up to 8 modules per controller. You can turn any module on or off at anytime from the controller or turn everything off at once.

homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/main/co_disp/displ/carfnbr/163/prrfnbr/3126/X10-Lighting-Control-Kit

if you use those timers you might wanna go with the grounded modules for better protection.

homecontrols.com/cgi-bin/hci.pl?pgm=co_disp&func=displ&strfnbr=2&prrfnbr=3079&sesent=0,0&search_id=336919
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i have: all (veg & grow) lights, heating, air circulation, exhaust fans, CO2 and watering all automated with these timers and they are working great!

*CO2:*
I set up my CO2 system using pretty much just what i had laying around other than the cylinder: and old computer power supply, 12v solenoid valve and CO2 regulator. **Picture below**. I used the power supply to get 12v to the solenoid valve, the timers turn on and off the power supply to open the valve 3 times a day for 1 hour each time. At that same time the timer is set up to turn the exhaust fans, circulatory fans, and heater off.

i was looking for CO2 meters for my system so i could measure the ppm and found a unit at mcmaster.com  part # 39035K69. its a little pricey but maybe worth it in the long run. that'll be the next thing i buy. it also ready temperature.

*
HEATING:*
for the heating i wired in a generic digital thermostat so that i can keep my temps around 70deg F, but being that the heater has a fan i had to also use a timer module to turn it off when i want it turned off.


*WATERING:*
for watering i purchased one of these units: atlanticwatersystems.com/index.php?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage-ask.tpl&product_id=18&category_id=3&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=4

Using this unit i ran a "tee" from my refrigerator water line to the unit through the attic. The water system is set up on a float switch that fills a "dummy" 40gal reservoir (rubbermaid trash can) so the water can get to room temperature before it ever gets to the plants. The actual reservoir, another 40gal trash can, also has a float switch that turns on a submersible pump in the "dummy" reservoir to keep the level topped off. Being that my nutrient solutions are different for both veg and grow i also put a float switch in the grow reservoir (15gal trashcan).

The pumps that feed to the drip systems is on have their own timer modules and also have an unplugged "tee" at the bottom to act as a "bubbler" to keep the nutrient sediment from settling at the bottom. 

With all this automated all i have to do daily is check my pH (which is usually right at 6.0 in the dummy reservoir), add nutrients to my watering reservoirs, and raise or lower the lights.

i also rigged all my lights on a pulley system so i can raise and lower them from one location in the room rather than having to deal with chains and what not.


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## diablo_cannabis (Dec 22, 2008)

oh yeah also, i spent about $3000 to set up 300 sqft of total grow space. Not too bad only $10 per sqft. thats including 8 600watt HPS lights


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## Weezy (Dec 22, 2008)

HydroManiac said:
			
		

> You spent 1000 USD on a 400 watt HPS cause your gullable


 
I spent ~$92 on a 400 watt HPS and wired it together..its coils and not digital but it still works well... .  

The soil, variety of beans, pots, pens, cabinet, etc etc all came to about a grand...


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## NorCalHal (Dec 22, 2008)

Not sure if GT got this going or not, but here is my 2cents.

Do not automate your nuit mix. Hand make your Nuits every week. You will have a ph flucuation, but that is normal, and as long as it is within limits, you need not worry. I have seen a few auto nuit/PH mixes, and it caused the most problems. Of course you can automate the feeding schedule, just not the actual nuit mix.
As far as the DWC levals, that is easy enough, no fancy equipment man, just commen sense and gravity will work fine, that along with a $15 float valve.

So, if you can make your own nuit mix, the rest will be EASY.

Use a C.A.P. Controller, one with Fuzzy Logic for your Co2. You will not be disappointed at all. 
Ensure that your grow room is completly airtight. Your intake should have a dampner on it also. Completley seal your lights and aircool them by drawing air from outside the grow room, thru the lights, exausting out of the grow room.

I ran automated rooms with little issues. I also used CO2, but it got old quick changing those bottles man. I perfer to be forced to check on the room every few days, rather then depend on auotmation, but auotmation is great.
Just don't consider it "turn-key" and expect it to run itself and produce like mad. You get what you put into it.


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## leafminer (Dec 22, 2008)

If you wanted to do something like that on the cheap, I would start with a left-over PC. Add an A-to-D card to get the input signals into the PC and add a D-to-A card to control outputs. Then write a program in Quickbasic or Visual Basic to control the cards. Keep it as simple as possible. Use simple programmable timers to control everything possible, like the lights, and the ebb-flow pumps. You wouldn't need to automate so much; like, temp control could be done with a sensor that turned on fans when required. The program woud have to sense pH and adjust it by turning on a dosing device for up, or one for down, depending. But there would be a lot of programming and testing required. Personally I would just automate everything possible using simple timers and sensors and leave the rest to the good old human brain.


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## eastla_kushsmoka (Dec 22, 2008)

you should make your own 5 gal dwc system grow some hydro green monsters simple just buy some buckets order some net lids hydroton get a cpl good pumps nutes ph/ppm meter and your good to go gotta think smaller with bigger plants you get cought your going away for a long time you know alot of people cant handle that and start yappin away at the mouth but thats bad for peoples health so you wouldnt want that


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## greenfriend (Dec 22, 2008)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Not sure if GT got this going or not, but here is my 2cents.
> 
> Do not automate your nuit mix. Hand make your Nuits every week. You will have a ph flucuation, but that is normal, and as long as it is within limits, you need not worry. I have seen a few auto nuit/PH mixes, and it caused the most problems. Of course you can automate the feeding schedule, just not the actual nuit mix.
> As far as the DWC levals, that is easy enough, no fancy equipment man, just commen sense and gravity will work fine, that along with a $15 float valve.
> ...



ya what he said.  dont skimp on ur equipment.  my setup uses CAP fuzzy logic controller, CAP MLC-8 lighting controller, and CAP environmental controller, cept i use a GEN-2 propane Co2 generator so i dont have to replace Co2 bottles - i highly recommend these products.  if u dont cut corners during setup and buying equipment, automation is not that diffucult. HOWEVER, the complete setup set me back bout $9000.  also agree bout adding nutes and pH by hand.  good luck!


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## LegendaryGT (Dec 24, 2008)

thanks a lot guys! loving all the ideas! christmas put a hiatus to this setup/grow but the seeds arrived a couple days ago and we should be purchasing everything really soon and have it all up by mid january. still undecided on just how much will be automated...


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## hydronix (Jun 7, 2011)

i am a programmer and i have mastered the automation part here are the things my creation can do

lights
fan
cooler
temp
ph
ppm
orp
co2
water level control with laser eye
basically i set up the parameters of all these listed (i might have missed a few)  and the computer controls it all, to much heat it can turn on cooler or fan, if still to much it shuts of lights if you specify, the probes are all in the water and it turns on co2 when needed, if it needs dosing it also dose that as well i can even add a motor too the light so it can lower it or raise it all automated, basically you set all the parameters and the system functions exactly as you tell it to, the beautiful part of this is that you can check everything live on your iphone or smart phone, it can email me if anything is outside of parameter, only after it has followed all the inputs i have specified, i am thinking of calling it hydronix, oh also you can turn on and off everything that is programed with your phone also manually,  ill post later when i figure out what else i need to set up to control,  if you pros out there have any advise i would love it,  all the materiel i have used has cost me about $1400 so far,  once i know everything that is associated with growing i am sure i can finalize my system and have it on its way to hydro shops.


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## hydronix (Jun 7, 2011)

oh and also it logs every condition so you can look back and see what worked best and fine tune it,  automatizing is not because people don't want to spend time with plant its purpose is to grow the optimal product with optimal condition


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## Mutt (Jun 7, 2011)

last post said:
			
		

> 12-24-2008, 12:37 AM


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Jun 7, 2011)

i know it resurrects this old thread, but you can definately automate your grow much cheaper than most people think.  i will have a grand total of about $250-$300 in a computer controlled room -- NOT including grow gear, only for the controller system itself.  part one is making a device that controls the power sources for the room (I posted that in the DIY forum) and part 2 is controlling it with most normal Win/Linux/Mac/DOS computer that can run Perl scripts. 

i'll be posting that part 2 in the DIY forum within the next couple of weeks.  even though this thread is 3 yrs old there's still validity in the goal... heh...


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## Hick (Jun 8, 2011)

:aok:...


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