# Dual spectrum-3 strain-ebb&flow-SOG



## Budders Keeper (Sep 11, 2009)

Here's the scoop..
400w HPS, 400w MH...hortilux bulbs in both 
2X4 flood table
Rockwool cubes on Grodan expert slabs
GH 3 part-Hygrozyme-Endo/Ecto Myco-Gravity
Wh/Rhino-Hashplant-Bubblegum and/or Big Bud
19 total plants
6" elicent + phat filter for air-cooled HPS/exhaust
4"  vortex + phat filter mounted and on stand by if needed
36" oscillating tower fan
185 GPH pump
20 gallon res.
Flat white walls

*  I think that covers it. I'll be doing 3 floods a day once it get's rockin', doin 1 right now...200ppm-5.9ph. The clones were took from my new mom's; *
*WR=clone, *
*Hashplant=.NL seed, *
*Bubblegum=.NL seed, *
*Big bud=.NL seed.*
*  Temps are a little high right now(80-85) due to the heatwave this week. RH is 50-55. The room is 5x5 with the table centered in the middle and the 2-400's are crammed together directly over table...it's pretty bright! *
* Now it's your turn  all comments and criticism/ suggestions are always welcome...go ahead and rip me for the cube-covers, they were free *


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Sep 11, 2009)

BK    Im pretty sure that your using the white squares to reflect light back up at the plant right?   

I was reading earlier today in another thread that lighting on the bottom sides of leaves cause stretching bc the plant thinks its competing for light with another plant...  

Im not tellin you what to do just sharing what i read earlier....

good luck...


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## Budders Keeper (Sep 11, 2009)

JustAnotherAntMarching said:
			
		

> BK Im pretty sure that your using the white squares to reflect light back up at the plant right?
> 
> ..


Hello JAAM, thanks for stoppin in. They're actually to block light from rockwool so it doesn't get algae growin on it. I've never worried about the algae on the RW as it dies off when canopy fills in and blocks the light...but a friend gave them to me so I pretty much put them on for his benefit.


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## Budders Keeper (Sep 26, 2009)

Hit 12/12 today, This is a pic of the hashplant. Seems to be a very compact plant, even with the light reflected back up. The 1 in the background is white rhino. Had a slight Cal/Mg def. as usual at this point...solved it with MagiCAL. Things are moving along smoothly so far. Res. is now sitting at 1046 ppm's of equal parts GH3+1 ounce of MagiCAL. 
5.9ph.

Temps still a little high..80-85(the rhino hates heat!)but heatwave is almost over!

Thanks for stopping in


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## ElJefe1971 (Sep 26, 2009)

Budders Keeper said:
			
		

> Temps still a little high..80-85(the rhino hates heat!)but heatwave is almost over!
> 
> Thanks for stopping in



Dude, I m in SoCal and our heat wave is starting to drive me nuts.  I too am averaging around 80 -  85 during the peak of the day, but my Fire Purple seems to be doing fine.  I think if I can get the temps in the sweet spot they will respond even greater. I believe some cool weather is right around the corner though.  Keep it green!


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## Budders Keeper (Sep 26, 2009)

Hello ElJefe, I'm hearing a few more days and the heat will be gone for now. 3 of the strains have no visible signs of stress, but the white rhino has a little edge curl from the heat. Nothing major but I can tell they will be happier in cooler times.


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## ishnish (Sep 27, 2009)

:ciao:
:watchplant:


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## chris1974 (Sep 27, 2009)

Im gonna use those covers next time for sure, I had some serious alge growin durring veg....  I recomend em !  Ill bee keeping an eye on this one, alot like what I have set up !


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## Budders Keeper (Sep 28, 2009)

Hello ishnish and chris, thanks for stopping by. My overconfidence brings bad news No more hashplant! I jumped the gun thinking "I'm sure it's gonna be a female" and cloned away:hitchair: You know the rest of the story. Put my rhino mom in there to make up it...pics later today, and..uh...lesson learned


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## Budders Keeper (Sep 30, 2009)

Here's a few pics of the changes. The middle pic is an X white rhino mom I've managed to sort of form down the edge of the tray. It's in a 3.4 gal pot of coco+org that is sitting on the floor. The last one is the rhino clones in the tray. Tried to get a pic of the space between the nodes. I changed the res today, 1210ppm's for now. GH + magical(1/2oz for whole res)+ hygrozme. Triing to get something going quickly to fill a couple gaps from the missing hashplant  I have some bubblegum cuts with 5 days on them. Hopefully I'll see roots in a couple days so I can get them in there. Time to hurry up and wait for the flowers:ccc:


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## Budders Keeper (Sep 30, 2009)

Heres my moms' veggin'.


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 2, 2009)

Things are picking up...here's one with the lights off.


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## ElJefe1971 (Oct 2, 2009)

Looks great Budders . . . whats with the bungee cord?


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 2, 2009)

ElJefe1971 said:
			
		

> Looks great Budders . . . whats with the bungee cord?


Thank you ElJefe, The bungee cord is hooked on a plant that was a little tall. The weight of the bungee was enough to bend the plant over...I usually use fishing weights but the bungee was laying right there.


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## chris1974 (Oct 2, 2009)

Lookin real good BK !


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 13, 2009)

Things are looking good, I think. The fatter bud is the rhino and the other is big bud. Questions? comments? advice?


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## ElJefe1971 (Oct 13, 2009)

Looks awesome . . .mine are getting there as well.  How many more weeks are you going to flower?


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 13, 2009)

Thanks ElJefe, they are only 18 days into flower. I expect the Rhino to go 7.5-8.5 weeks...and the 3 big bud about a week longer, but I have never grown the big bud out yet. I'm just so happy to have the E/F tray goin again. Been doin coco/org's for the last couple years. This is kind of a trial run to see what I can expect from the rhino and the big bud in the tray. The next one is going to be all bubblegum, growing a mom out from seed now. Thanks for looking!


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 15, 2009)

It's killing me having to wait 12 stinkin hours before I can see my ladies again. They are filling out so fast compared to coco. Nice to be a part of the E&F club again!


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## ElJefe1971 (Oct 16, 2009)

E & F is that much better???


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 19, 2009)

The growth rate is definately faster. I was running coco for the "flavor". Got the same white rhino in E&F to see how much difference there really is in taste. Mass producers coco buckets had faster growth than plain coco but still not like the E&F. DWC is the only thing I've seen keep up with E&F but I've never done Aero-ponics.


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## ElJefe1971 (Oct 19, 2009)

cool . . . I will keep that in mind for future grows.  I know e&f is fairly easy and simple to set up, but you do waste a lot of water.  I'e heard god thing about aeroponics - but that was one guy with a small system.  Keep it green man!


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 20, 2009)

ElJefe1971 said:
			
		

> but you do waste a lot of water.


I only use a 20 gal res and change it every 10 days. I don't waste it though...my house/yard plants get some gourmet food every 10 days. I've even used a garden sprayer to do my lawn with the leftovers! 
  Well things are moving right along, at 25 days 12/12 now. Here's a pic 4 ya.


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 20, 2009)

Thought I'd throw up a pic of last years grape ape. It's whats for breakfast:hubba:


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## ElJefe1971 (Oct 20, 2009)

Things are CERTAINLY moving right along!  Looks great Budders . . . great looking girls.


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 20, 2009)

Why, thank you sir.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 21, 2009)

*Budds  keeper*...looking   great  my  friend....I  run  the  *massprocer  *coco  buck  as  well...the  fast  growth  is  due  to  amendments added...not  just the  coocco...I  grow  mostley  in  soil  and Love  to  clone  useing  the  cocco..seems  to  work  well  for  me..i  also  use  the  bubble  cloners  from *massman  *as well..If  ya dont mind...Gonna  pull  up  my  milk  crate  fallow  along  the rest  of the  way ..How  many  more  days  ya  have?  Im  a  hit  my  bong  now...take care and be safe:48:


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## BBFan (Oct 21, 2009)

Hey Budders Keeper-

Nice grow you got going on.  Are you still using both bulbs?  Are you rotating plants or switching the bulbs?

If not, do you notice any difference in growth on the ends of your table?

Thanks- Again Nice Job!


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 21, 2009)

-4u2- welcome, and thanks for stoppin by. I ran I plant in plain coco and couldn't stand that it had nothing in it so I mixed with perlite, vermi-castings, bone/blood, bat guano (high P kind-indonesion) and tried a couple Mass buckets. The Mass buckets definately get the prize! I hit 12/12 on 9-26 so I would guess I still have another month.

-BBfan-Welcome, great to see ya! I am still using both bulbs(will be till harvest). I am not rotating plants or switching bulbs, just letting it roll. The only difference I can tell so far is the Mh end of table crystalled up faster, and the Hps end bulked up quicker. I'm only really using the rhino for info as I am familiar with that strain. I also have a rhino mom trained into 2 main stalks, growing in coco/perlite/org. One main stalk pulled under hps end, and the other pulled under the Mh. When lights come on I'll move it away from table and get a pic to put it in perspective. I will also get pics of the rhino on the far end Mh and another on the far end hps. My biggest surprise was the ones in the middle (both spectrum) do not show a significant difference from the hps.

I'm done rambleing, Thanks for looking...all advice appreciated...and your kind words as well.   BK


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 22, 2009)

Added two more..bubblegum clones..to fill in gaps from the missing hashplant. Still trying to figure out how to get my candy grow in the tray as well. Batt's died on the cam so pics will be a little later. changed res; 1400ppm, 5.8ph, gh3 + dry koolbloom, 73degree res., 80 degree room, 50-60% RH (I know but it's the best I can do...got lots of fans!).


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## BBFan (Oct 22, 2009)

Hey BK-

Thanks for the reply.  Interesting about the growth rates and trich production between the mh and hps.  The difference on my test was staggering.  I'll keep checking on ya if that's OK.  

Boy that rh is awful high for flowering.  I go a little overboard and keep mine below 35%- usually around 28%.  I've read several different articles about aridity and increased trich production.

But at those levels, I think you need to watch for bud rot.

Awesome job though.


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 22, 2009)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey BK-
> 
> Thanks for the reply. Interesting about the growth rates and trich production between the mh and hps. The difference on my test was staggering. I'll keep checking on ya if that's OK.
> 
> ...


I am watching daily, hourly almost, for the dreaded rot. I flowered at 70-80% before the dehum with no probs, just lots of fans. The 25 pinter runs 24/7 this time of year to keep Rh down. I could put it in the room but then temps go up to 90 creating more Rh which causes the dehu to run...it's a careful dance between temp and Rh over here but it keeps it interesting at 3am when the wife wakes me up with " that _darn _thing is beeping again!" She has really good ears, I have to rely on my sense of touch to wake me up:angrywife: . Yes, it's a pretty staggering difference here too. Thanks for stoppin in!  BK


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 23, 2009)

BBfan, got some more coming. I tried to take as many angles as I could for you to compare...but be advised this is in no way a "scientific test" but I'm you figured that out!


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 23, 2009)

Hello friends, moving right along. I can't believe I'm already tying buds up:hubba: . The tray is definately producing much faster than the past. *I* believe this is due to extra lumens rather than extra spectrum. I am so disappointed in the Mh both for veg and flower(compared to hps and I understand the lumen diff.) that I will be retiring it after this grow and adding another a/c hps. Can't wait to see 2-400HPS rockin 8 sq. feet. Probably overkill and hopefully the bud coming out will also be overkill!


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## BBFan (Oct 23, 2009)

Looks Great BK-

Easy to see which are under the mh and which are under the hps (even without the noticeable color difference in the pics) but rather based on the growth.

It's great that you're going all the way through with the mh to the end- I gave up on the mh to improve yield when the difference became so apparent.  Looking forward to your final results and perspective. :hubba: 

But, I still think it's the lumens that are making the difference (like you mentioned), and it's not the spectrum.  I'm getting a 600 watt unit for my next grow to compare the difference on a lumen to lumen basis (I currently also grow under 2- 400 watt units in 10 sq ft).

There is just so much more photosynthetic response to the spectrum put out by a metal halide compared to the spectrum of an hps.

But, as most of us are small time growers, the difference may be so negligible as to not be worth it.  We'll see.

Thank you for the journal- your growing skills are very impressive.


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 23, 2009)

> It's great that you're going all the way through with the mh to the end


It's that or one light, And the girls are attached to slabs of rockwool so can't really move'em either.



> photosynthetic response


Your losin me, man



> your growing skills are very impressive


Aww shucks, thank you_pounds_  BK


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## IRISH (Oct 23, 2009)

BBFan. i believe he's scrapping the MH, for another 400Hps. . would that be correct BK?...

i also see the difference in vegging with my 400Hps, as long as flowering, as opposed to vegging with the 250Mh, and the cfl's. the only downfall i've encountered is strain dependant in some will need more pinch/training so they don't try to reach the light too awful quickly.( ie...hybrids)... ...

can you give me a size on your wr, as well as bg BK? height? circumfrence?...

very nice job man. looks like a very nice harvest in your near future...

edit>...that grape ape was looking like breakfast of champs dude. lol...


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 23, 2009)

Hello IRISH, yes I will be scrapping the Mh, but, after this grow.



> can you give me a size on your wr, as well as bg BK? height? circumfrence?...


I shall get out the old tape measure in a couple hours when the lights come on. The bg I just put a couple clones in to fill a couple gaps but I will post pics along the way. The wr...you want the 3gal coco along the side, an HPS-RW-E&F, or a Mh-rw-e&f

Thanks for stopping in, and for the kind words as well.  BK


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 24, 2009)

OK IRISH,, the rhinos are running about 10-12inches tall, and about 25 to 30 inches in circumference including all side branching. 
Bubblegum is 3inches and 4inches tall..2 day @ 12/12.
                        Happy trails,.,BK


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## IRISH (Oct 24, 2009)

nice. nice. carry on...


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 25, 2009)

I can tell I'm not gonna like the big bud...or maybe I just got a superr-leafy, slow budding, nute sensitive, ugly looking pheno .  Love that rhino! Threw a few extra clones I didn't want to kill in their (bubblegum). Another note on the big bud, all the hairs are turning and it's barely been a month...been checking for nanners but they are acting as if they have been pollenated( hairs turning, very little trich's). Anyone have any thoughts on the big bud? Mom is from seed, did I just get a lazy pheno or what...I'm ready to kill her now but I know if I do the buds will will be the best I've ever had and she will be lost. I hate murphy!


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## sundancer245 (Oct 26, 2009)

wow....looking great BK ...murphy is my worst enemy too!  green mojo for your ladies!  :aok:


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## captain1 (Oct 27, 2009)

Budders Are your bulbs Blue spectrum? I was thinking of using my 1000w MH with a 3000 kelvin MH bulb and my 1000 hps. Whats your thoughts would you rotate them? Is it even worth it? MH Red spectrum bulb is 115,000 lumens so I would think results might be good.


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 27, 2009)

captain1 said:
			
		

> Budders Are your bulbs Blue spectrum? I was thinking of using my 1000w MH with a 3000 kelvin MH bulb and my 1000 hps. Whats your thoughts would you rotate them? Is it even worth it? MH Red spectrum bulb is 115,000 lumens so I would think results might be good.


I'm running EYE bulbs in both..HPS/MH..no conversions. I would definately rotate them...and I think it would be worth it if you can keep 2000w cool. I am getting rid of Mh all together and just gonna vegg a few days under T-5's, another week under HPS, then flower. The_ blue_ end of my table was smaller than the _yellow_ end but matured faster(just started having hairs turn last night on Mh end..no signs of hairs turning on HPS end). I would not go buy a conversion bulb just because I would rather put my money towards HPS if I was in your shoes..but..before this grow I would have believed different. Hope I was able to answer your Q's captain, and thanks for looking! Think take some naked pics of my moms!


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## chris1974 (Oct 27, 2009)

Those buds are lookin awesome *Budders   *another successful grow


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 27, 2009)

1) Bubble gum mom recently butchered
2)Rhino bush-mom (BBFANimagine flowering that!
3)big bud mom I'm sick of trying to please and ready to kill!
4)Gifted mango clone, soon to be mom.
5) bubblegum babies, freshly chopped(2 hours)
6)mom party
7)playing around!

I'll get some more pics of the pretty flowers for ya'all in a couple days. I have strings/bungies/shoelaces/zipties holding up the buds now...pretty funny sight but they were about to go swimming! Happy trails...BK


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## IRISH (Oct 27, 2009)

loving the buds BK. ...nice grow...

love the 'crank' you've done to the Bubblegum Mom^ in first pic...

Flipping my entire room in my multi strain grow right now. ...


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## captain1 (Oct 27, 2009)

HOLY MUDDER got a hair Cut!


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 27, 2009)

Howdy all, Forgot to tell you about my little experiment. That rhino mom is in a 2 gal pot filled with shredded rockwool and to be doin pretty good. I keep a gal container filled with water/nutes close by and give it a squirt with a turkey baster (1oz I think) 3,4,5 times a day or whenever I think about it.

IRISH, flipping the room always gets me all giddy. Even when someone else is doin it...exciting times ahead.

captain1, I just can't get myself to throw any away so I'm trying to hold out till the BG roots so I can use for clones. You are correct though...she practically has an afro!


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## Budders Keeper (Nov 2, 2009)

Any thoughts?  Questions?  Advice? Flamin?  I welcome all comments  Just remembered flamin is against the rules..so, uhh...constructive criticism, yeah that's better 

Thanks for your support!  BK


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## ElJefe1971 (Nov 2, 2009)

Looks delicious. When do you chop? I just cut mine down yesterday - they are hanging and drying.  I will post some pics of the buds as I manicure them.  Not sure what my yield will be, but there are some nice buds for sure


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## Budders Keeper (Nov 3, 2009)

Hi ElJefe, just checked the trich's and they are mostly cloudy. I will let them go till half amber or longer, I don't like to move! I'll be searching out your harvest pics for sure. Well here's a few pics, bored this morning.














If I remember
1) jungle from mh end
2)poor little candy-G in the middle of it all
3-4) bubblegum clones flowered at first sign of roots
5)big bud..for me=big disappointment but I probably didn't do the right dance to get it to flourish. Still fighting to not kill BB mom.

Hopefully chopping the rhino in a week or so. I've had Gravity running for a couple days. I plan to change out res tomorrow and run about 400ppm's till they finish. Should be my best yeild yet on the table and it's not even full. Thanks for checking it out ya'all!   BK


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## BBFan (Nov 6, 2009)

Well, one thing I must say, I certainly would send you some plants, as I would trust you to be my _Budders Keeper_!  

So you're throwing out the MH after this grow?  Frankly, I'm having second thoughts on that topic.  I think I may have been premature in my decision to scrap the MH in flowering.  I'm anxiously waiting for your final report.

Much respect to you for your growing skills!

And what the heck, go ahead and flower that Rhino Bush mom! :hubba:


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## Growdude (Nov 6, 2009)

Budders that is one nice grow. :hubba:


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## the chef (Nov 6, 2009)

Wow! Your gonna be up to your budders in..budders!


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## asyouarei (Nov 8, 2009)

great methodical grow, pics look great.


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## Budders Keeper (Nov 8, 2009)

asyouarei said:
			
		

> great methodical grow, pics look great.


Thanks for stoppin in!

Thanks to all for the good words 

Started harvest at about 20% amber. Pics after harvest:hubba:


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## Budders Keeper (Nov 9, 2009)

Here's afew last minute pics of the grow. If I remember..the 3rd and 4th pic I tried to show how I bent and pulled the rhino mom(coco+per+org) to grow along the edge of tray. I cut all the growth out that wasn't facing the light and ended up with a wall of buds along the side of tray. The second pic shows part of that hanging. The 3week bud with the mature rhino in the background is bubblegum(.NL). A quick burn and I'll put up the box-hangers..huh


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## Budders Keeper (Nov 9, 2009)

I'm about half way there, maybe a little more. 25 years of skateboarding took a toll on my wrists and I can only handle about an hour a day with the snippers. I'm really happy with this grow . I saw where I can yield much more by creating a sort of faux coliseum by putting a mom on each side of the tray and pulling it down/apart to form a wall-of-plant on each side...all within 18inches of the light max. I decided to get rid of the Mh .....and get a switchable ballast so I can still use a lil Mh when needed (didn't mean to scare ya BBfan  in the end I saw that it can be beneficial at certain times.). Also need to get a matching hood to air cool both lights and that will also allow me to put them closer together to get more of a "mixed spectrum" rather than 1/3mh-1/3mix-1/3hps which is pretty much how this grow went. Sorry I'm ramblin but I learned a lot this round as un"scientific" as it was...and since I put down here I can _waste_ my memory on other things:hubba: 

*THANKS to all who stopped by to look, share, and advise  Smoke report in 7 days but right now I gotta jump over to 4u's candy store put a little pic up.*


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## 4u2sm0ke (Nov 9, 2009)

Very  Nice  Harvest...And  congrats  on the  way  to  use  the  Moms..will  be  looking  forward to  your  next  show of  pics..very  nice  job..:48:


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## sundancer245 (Nov 12, 2009)

very nice BK   you really bent that mom over dude! i have a couple now that i think im gonna have to do that too...they are just getting too big and i cant flower them till my auto's are done...very nice looking harvest...will check back for the smoke report:hubba:  congrats on an awesome job!


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## Budders Keeper (Nov 12, 2009)

sundancer245 said:
			
		

> very nice BK  you really bent that mom over dude! i have a couple now that i think im gonna have to do that too...they are just getting too big and i cant flower them till my auto's are done...very nice looking harvest...will check back for the smoke report:hubba: congrats on an awesome job!


Thanks all 
Sundancer- While I was flushing her out in veg I took advantage and carefully worked the coco loose while carefully creating a lean to the plant, I then bungied each of the two stalks(slight pressure/pull) towards light. This put the original canopy at about a 45 degree angle which was aimed at light. If canopy was left straight up in pot only 1/3 of canopy would have gotten light from where it was sitting. 2 weeks into flower I trimmed out all growth not facing light. Maybe that will give you an idea or 2. Thanks for the good words and green luck with your bigguns!

:ciao: 4u2!


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