# need some help! got pics



## mojomon (Jul 18, 2005)

These are two of my six seedlings at one week.  I'm using an NFT hydro system, MH bulb (conversion bulb that works in 400w hps system) about 3 feet from plants (sse my prior post: grow room pics) going 24 hours, distilled water (kept balanced at 5.4, never got above 5.8-6.0 prior to correcting) with "base" nutrient for first week, and today just added half strength "grow" and "catalyst" nutrients after res water change out.

Leaves seem yellow, and on one they seem not only yellowed/discolored but drooping a bit, on the other are smaller than all the rest and more discolored. The other 4 seedlings seem to have no abnormal appearances, and are growing at a slightly faster rate.

Can someone give me some possible causes for these seedlings symptoms?

Appreciate any assistance---
Mojo


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## bizzy323 (Jul 18, 2005)

it's nutrient burn, since your not suppose to give any type of nutrients for the first two weeks. I suggest you clean out the water and keep it at 5.5 see what happens.


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## mariofromontario (Jul 18, 2005)

~well. i dont know what food u r using, so i am not sure about that side of things, but for sure salt build up could impede water uptake for sure, and block out nutrients. grodan is pretty much a sponge, that gives up its water easy, about 75 percent available, hydroton or the clay shit, holds almost no water, and (MAYBE) this is part of the problem. Try treating the seedlings a little more like clones, make sure they have a few fuzzy roots hanging about berfore palacing them in your system, especially if your nft trays dont reverse, and there is poor contact w/ the nutrient solution. Another tip, if you would like is,.... None of the feed charts, or recommendations on the back of bottles take into account the amount of light available, they all seem to assume people use 1000 watt bulbs. less light = less food. With a 400 watter, cut the food in half, if it says 1/2 strenghth ,try a 1/4. hope this helps.. take care, Mario.


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## mojomon (Jul 18, 2005)

Thanks for the ideas---
Today I changed out the water and replaced with distilled water pH balanced to 5.5.  Plan on flushing for at least 24 hours, more if needed.  Hope they recover...
-Mojo


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## mariofromontario (Jul 18, 2005)

hey Mojo, if you flush dont over do it! flush until you figure all salt buildup is gone, then Feed! expanded clay, and grodan has almost no ability to hold nurients and water away from the plants, they leach super easy! especially clay. the whole process should take only a hour or so. you could speed it up by pouring water by hand from the top until your empty res is full. throw away the water and mix up new food, and feed immidiatly!!! you may have to top feed a bit until the roots are better developed. dirt guys may dispute this but, their medium has a c.e.c of at least 80, once your roots growing down the trays, you will have a c.e.c of, 0! **** all, hence super high performance. C.E.C= cation exchange capacity, a mediums ability to hold nurient away from roots. ive heard of guys doing 2 leaches; one w/ luke warm water ) and a touch of wetting agent,  (to help dissolve salt deposits) then a second at regular temp with food. Im sorry if this is long winded but i dont want to give bad advice if i cant help it.


What kind  of food do you use?


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## mojomon (Jul 19, 2005)

Thanks Mario:
Actually, the nutes came with the set-up, and are only identified as base, grow, catalyst and bloom. Base is used the second week (or after first set of strong leaves shows), then a mixture of base, grow and catalyst from third week on until ready to flower, when bloom is added to the mix.
This is my first grow and my first system, so I am going pretty much by the instructions (spoken like a true newbie...).  I'm using Dutch rockwool with hydroton expanded clay pellets.
I ended up flushing for 24 hours (I poured water throught the tops as you suggested about halfway throught the flush) and just a little while ago changed out the res, balanced to 5.5 pH, and added 1 tsp base (1/4 less than they recommended).  Of the six plants in the system, it's only the two in the photos in my original post that are showing the burn, so my guess is that maybe they have had poor rooting since sprouting.  The other four don't seem to be affected. 
Thanks for the help---anything else I might need to know/do?


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## mariofromontario (Jul 20, 2005)

hey Mojo, i ran a drip system for a couple of years, simililar to yours a bit, at least once the roots develop; and the thing that seem to really help me was when i upgraded my resivoir. (plz keep in mind i did ok without all the crap im gonna blab about) I got a res chiller, and kept the water at about 65 degres, this is good defence against a host of dirty little organisims that feed on the roots. Pythium is the most common. Cold water also holds more oxygen then warm. The second thing i did that they really seemed to dig was when i added my second resivoir. As the water evaporates from your res and the water level gets lower, bad things things can happen.If the plants are young and not eating a whole lot, the ppm (food strength) can actually increase, also the ph will swing a bit faster. When plants are big and hungry the water goes down quite fast, and so can the food strength. What the second res does (did) is, it kept the main res topped up. when they are young i just filled it with fresh water, as they got older i put just a bit of food in it. the second res was just a rubbermaid bin with a hose going to a float valve in the main res.


WIthout this crap, just remember to:
~top up your res w/ fresh water to maintain a constant level
~change your res at least once a week
~Use hydrogen peroxide
~make sure your water never gets too warm
~ and dont stress out (like i did) over possible rare deficientcys.
If you use a good quality line of food, any problems you come across should be a matter of siimply, too much food, or to little.
~ well over half the problems ive had, that i thought were food related , were really enviromental probems, or mecanical. Hydrogen peroxide is a staple. use the 35 pecent crap. if purchased from a grow shop itll have the instructions, you dillute to around one percent so it goes a long way. 1 litre is about ten bucks. Your system is the perfect enviroment for all kinds of things to grow in, not just plants, so you will need to keep it sterile. 
the only other thing i can think right now is stay away from karbo load or any such products, These are fructose , fruit sugar , and are the perfect souce of quick energy for nasties to thrive. you can use them but wait a bit untill you learn a bit more about good bactera, microbes and crap.
 take care.


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## bizzy323 (Jul 20, 2005)

mojo the nuts they give with the setup, is piece of shit don't use it anymore. They burn the plants. try to use flora series or maxi grow. peace


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## mojomon (Jul 20, 2005)

Thanks Mario and Bizzy--

Looking for an affordable chiller and I just ordered some maxigro and maxibloom, 1.5 lb each.  Second res with float valve sounds like a great idea, will give it a try.  It's been 24 hours since last change out and plants are looking good, so hopefully the most I will lose are the two in the photos.  The smaller of the two looks a lot worse, but the other one seems to be holding well.  Keeping my fingers crossed--
Thanks for all the info, and I'll be back to pick your brains some more!
muchas gracias,
mojo


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