# Adequate lighting?



## Carlo (Mar 1, 2011)

Hello all,

I'm new to indoor growing and have a lighting question. I plan on growing about 5 fem plants in a small/medium closet. I plan on using 1 T5 four-foot fluorescent (2 bulbs) for vegetation and 1 HPS 400 watt lamp for flowering.

Do i have enough lumens/lighting for the 5 plants? what if i attempted to grow six plants, which seems to fit, is there enough lumens?

Also, at the flowering stage, could I use both lamps to increase the lumen?

I believe that it's a not good idea to use both in the vegetation phase, but i'm not sure. 

Any insight is greatly appreciated.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 1, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Hello all,
> 
> I'm new to indoor growing and have a lighting question. I plan on growing about 5 fem plants in a small/medium closet. I plan on using 1 T5 four-foot fluorescent (2 bulbs) for vegetation and 1 HPS 400 watt lamp for flowering.
> 
> ...



Lighting needs are figured by square foot rather than plant count.  I would recommend a 4 lamp T5, as a 4' 2 bulb T5 will not give adequate coverage over 4', regardless of the depth of your space.  A 400 W HPS is good for about 10 sq ft.  

Keep in mind that yield is more a function of your lighting and the strain you are growing.  By this I mean that you are not going to get more yield by putting more plants in your space.  I think that for a 3 x 3 space (what you can adequately cover with a 400W HPS) that I would keep my plant count to 4 with about a 6-8 week veg.


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## budman45 (Mar 1, 2011)

i would use just the 400 watter you need just as many lumans for veg as you need for flower


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## Carlo (Mar 1, 2011)

Could I use both lamps? You guys are pretty knowledgeable. I like that!


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## nouvellechef (Mar 1, 2011)

budman45 said:
			
		

> i would use just the 400 watter you need just as many lumans for veg as you need for flower



No you dont. Thats crazy talk.

Yes you can use both the T5 and the 400.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 1, 2011)

budman45 said:
			
		

> i would use just the 400 watter you need just as many lumans for veg as you need for flower



I'm sorry, but this is incorrect.  You need 3000 lumens per sq foot for vegging and 5000 lumens per sq foot for flowering.  In addition, your vegging room can be significantly smaller than your flowering room as plants generally increase in size 2-3 times when put into flowering.  I veg with 216 watts of T5s in a 4 x 2 space and flower with 1200w in a 3 x 6.5 space.

While you can use both lights during veg, you would be better off, energy wise, to veg with a 4 tube 4' T5 and flower with the 400W hps.

What are your plans for ventilation.  This is almost as important as your lighting.


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## Carlo (Mar 1, 2011)

Although I'm using the closet, the entire room is empty. The entire place is empty. Therefore, I was thinking that i could use a fan in the closet and maybe 1 on each end of the closet. Do you believe this would be adequate? I would then ventilate out of the room window.


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## nouvellechef (Mar 2, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Although I'm using the closet, the entire room is empty. The entire place is empty. Therefore, I was thinking that i could use a fan in the closet and maybe 1 on each end of the closet. Do you believe this would be adequate? I would then ventilate out of the room window.



I have a feeling you mean cheap little oscilating fan? You skimp and go cheap in this sport, you pay for it in the end. Just so you know. GL


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

what kind of fans should be used for ventilation?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 2, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Although I'm using the closet, the entire room is empty. The entire place is empty. Therefore, I was thinking that i could use a fan in the closet and maybe 1 on each end of the closet. Do you believe this would be adequate? I would then ventilate out of the room window.



You really need an exhaust fan--look at Can, Eclipse, Vortex, etc..  You need to exchange the air--your plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on.  Oscillating or box fans will just push the air around.  In addition, you will most likely find that the closet runs too hot without one.


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

thanks for everyone's advice. i'm ready to grow, but still waiting on seeds. Patience is a virtue, at least that's what I hear.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 2, 2011)

You have your space set up and running?  How large is it?  From your opening post yesterday, it appears that things were still in the planning stages?


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

I had been planning this for awhile now. However, this forum has really helped me 'tighten up' my plan. I had already bought everything before I learned from this forum.

In hindsight, I would have bought from a different seed bank, would have bought 1 T5 florescent lamp with 4 bulbs rather than the two bulb kind, and would have bought the HPS 400 watt lamp with a built-in fan. 

My closet is 2x6 feet. I believe my seeds are not are going to arrive until at least 1 more week. I have the soil, perlite, pots, etc. 

Therefore, my last concern is ventilation, which I'm now assessing. 

Have I missed anything?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 2, 2011)

With a veg space that size, I would recommend getting another 4' 2 bulb fixture (and that would still be underlit).  With 12 sq ft and a 10000 lumen light, you are at less than 1000 lumens per sq ft.  This could well cause your plants to stretch.  I think that HTG has them for around $50.  If this is not in the budget, I think I would add the 400W after they get a couple of weeks old, this will cost quite a bit more in electricity than if you can manage another T5.  I think you make a good decision not getting the 400 with a built in fan.  Do you have an air coolable hood?

You are going to want your space set up and dialed in before you germ any seeds.  This means running the lights, having your ventilation set up and running, and making sure your temps are within growing range.


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

Thank you. Do you think I should buy another t5 2bulb or just buy the 4bulb and that way I can use both and have 6 bulbs going?


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## Jericho (Mar 2, 2011)

If you can afford it i would purchase the 4 bulb, That way you may not be underlit.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 2, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Thank you. Do you think I should buy another t5 2bulb or just buy the 4bulb and that way I can use both and have 6 bulbs going?



Six tubes would be better.  Can you fit both the 4 tube fixture AND the 2 tube fixture in your closet?


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## Locked (Mar 2, 2011)

I always feel bad when the new people find out just how much goes into this...time, money and effort wise. It's not a simple as it seems.

Don't get discouraged bro....your first grow is alwaysna learning experience...hell every grow seems to be a learning experience...and I am okay with that.


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## Wetdog (Mar 2, 2011)

Right now, I would be more concerned with ventilation than more lights.

None of those (what THG mentioned) are cheap and take more than just plugging them in to set up.

You REALLY have to have this taken care of before that 400w gets sparked up.

Wet


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

What if, although I'm using a closet, the entire bedroom is empty (the entire house is empty for that matter) and I left the closet sliding doors somewhat open. Wouldn't that help the ventilation? I would then use the bed room window to ventilate. Would that work? 

Also, I believe that all six tubes would fit & i could also use them with my HPS lamp to help make more lumens. 

Privacy isn't an issue in the house.


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

Also, I've been pricing the t5 4-bulb lamps and the price range from $60-$200. Is there any difference in the brands? If so, which is the better brand?


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## Jericho (Mar 2, 2011)

I cant comment on the brands as dont have T5s but if you leave the doors open you will loose allot of light, wouldn't really be worth it. How tall is the closet? Is this a built in closet? 

If it is a built in one then you might want to consider getting a cheap door to replace it with and then hock up a venting fan to the cheap door,


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

With t5 florescent 4-bulb lamp, do i get all 4 in 3000K spectrum bulbs which is listed as being for bloom or all 4 in 6400k spectrum bulbs which is listed for grow or get 2 in each kind? I'm assuming all four in 6400k which is best since the lamp is going to be used in early on. I think.  

I might as well try to get is at right as possible. Thanks again.


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## Growdude (Mar 2, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> With t5 florescent 4-bulb lamp, do i get all 4 in 3000K spectrum bulbs which is listed as being for bloom or all 4 in 6400k spectrum bulbs which is listed for grow or get 2 in each kind? I'm assuming all four in 6400k which is best since the lamp is going to be used in early on. I think.
> 
> I might as well try to get is at right as possible. Thanks again.


 

Since you are flowering with the HPS I would get all 6400k bulbs, and still use it while flowering alongside the HPS.

Its what Ill be doing with this T5 8 bulb, 40,000 lumens. perfect sized for my 2x5 closet.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 2, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Also, I've been pricing the t5 4-bulb lamps and the price range from $60-$200. Is there any difference in the brands? If so, which is the better brand?



I have the HTG brand, which are the inexpensive ones.  I have been happy with these.  The tubes are warrantied for a year.  I would get the 6400K tubes.  I didn't see a 4' 4 tubes fixture for $60?

I have this one:  hXXp://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-4-Foot-4-Lamp-High-Output-T5-Fluorescent-Grow-Light.asp

And this one (which is a 2' lamp):  hXXp://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-2-Foot-2-Lamp-PL-55-Tek-Lamp.asp


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## Carlo (Mar 2, 2011)

I was considering the SlimStar 4 Foot 8 Lamp High Output T5 Fluorescent....I believe that would be 40,000 lumen....Is that considered good growth lighting for my 2x6 closet?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 2, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> I was considering the SlimStar 4 Foot 8 Lamp High Output T5 Fluorescent....I believe that would be 40,000 lumen....Is that considered good growth lighting for my 2x6 closet?



Yes, 40,000 lumens in 12 sq ft would be great, however, that fixture is 26.5" wide.  If you only have 24", it is not going to fit.

You could put 2 of the HTG 4' 4 tube fixtures (linked above) in your closet as they are only 10" wide.


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## Roddy (Mar 3, 2011)

Love seeing all the support going on here, well done!


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## Carlo (Mar 6, 2011)

Based on the size of my closet (2x6), I believe that I can fit a T5 4-foot, 6-bulb, lamp that creates 30,000 lumens.

Would 30,000 lumen be good lighting for the closet space?  I wanted a T5 40,000 lumen lamp, but it does not fit. Also, (2) T5 20,000 lumen lamps do not fit.

Therefore, is seems like 30,000 is the best that i can do for the growth stage. Hopefully, that is sufficient lighting. 

I still have a HPS 400 watt lamp for the flowering stage & hopefully i can somehow fit the T5 lamp as well.


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## Jericho (Mar 6, 2011)

You will be 600 lumens off for veg, Its not too bad, maybe adding a a few cfls as side lighting to make up for it. 

So that you know how to work it out in the future you want to aim for 3000 lumens per square foot for veg and 5000 lumens per square foot for flower. 

Your space is 2x6 so that's 12 square foot, Times that by 3000 = 36.000 lumens needed. For flower just times the floor space by 5000 lumens and thats what you will need.


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## Carlo (Mar 6, 2011)

Once again, thanks a lot everyone. I'm really amazed at how there is to consider, but i remain excited.

What about the 120 watt high powered L.E.D. Grow Light? HTG ad says that it produces more lumen than a HPS 600 watt and much, much less heat. Also, that it is also capable of being used both in the vegetation and flowering stages. Is this true? If so, maybe that would take care of my lighting problems?


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## Roddy (Mar 7, 2011)

No experience with LED lighting, but all I've heard say it's not "there" yet? It would be great if one could produce more lumens than a 600w, would be a great light indeed! If you decide to drop the $ on one, please let us know how it goes!


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## Jericho (Mar 7, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Once again, thanks a lot everyone. I'm really amazed at how there is to consider, but i remain excited.
> 
> What about the 120 watt high powered L.E.D. Grow Light? HTG ad says that it produces more lumen than a HPS 600 watt and much, much less heat. Also, that it is also capable of being used both in the vegetation and flowering stages. Is this true? If so, maybe that would take care of my lighting problems?



There are allot of mixed feelings about LED light. Most say there not there yet and i agree. 

I dont know how they can say that they put out more lumens as i dont see how they can compare the two. HPS puts out much more spectrum's of light than LED lights do so to compare them by lumens just seems pointless IMO.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 7, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Once again, thanks a lot everyone. I'm really amazed at how there is to consider, but i remain excited.
> 
> What about the 120 watt high powered L.E.D. Grow Light? HTG ad says that it produces more lumen than a HPS 600 watt and much, much less heat. Also, that it is also capable of being used both in the vegetation and flowering stages. Is this true? If so, maybe that would take care of my lighting problems?



No, that is not true at all.  If it was, we would ALL be using 120W LEDs instead of burning 600W of HPS.

The 6 bulb T5 with 30,000 lumens should do you just fine.  IMO, you don't need to add CFL lighting to it.  I am running a little under 3000 lumens/sq ft in the veg closet.


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## Carlo (Mar 7, 2011)

I think I'm going to go with the T5 6-bulb for vegetation. Thanks everyone.

Now, I have an opportunity to exchange my HPS 400w lamp for a HPS 600w, since it hasn't been used. Of course I have to pay the difference and for shipping. But, is this recommended? 

My closet size is 2x6 closet....I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I still have to resolve my ventilation issue which I have not yet done.

Wouldn't the HPS 600w give off much more heat than the HPS 400w?

I was considering on just using the HPS 400w land along with the T5 lamp, how does this idea sound? I believe this may be better due to the heat issues.

Summer is arriving soon and I live in southern Arizona. A lot of heat!


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## Locked (Mar 7, 2011)

I veg with a 4 bulb 4 foot HO T5 setup in my 2x4 tent....even though I am 4000 lumens short of 3000 per sqr foot you wld not know it to look at the plants it vegs....you shld be fine vegging with that 6 bulb set up...it might be 6000 lumens short but in my opinion the fact that you can get the lights right down on them makes up for any short comings....jmo


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## Growdude (Mar 7, 2011)

Carlo said:
			
		

> Now, I have an opportunity to exchange my HPS 400w lamp for a HPS 600w, since it hasn't been used. Of course I have to pay the difference and for shipping. But, is this recommended?
> 
> My closet size is 2x6 closet....I'm pretty sure the answer is yes, but I still have to resolve my ventilation issue which I have not yet done.


 
Maybe you can use the T5 as side lighting, otherwise it will block the HPS and putting it above it would be pointless.

My grow closet is much like yours (2x5) I use 2, 400 watt HPS with narrow refeltor hoods and it covers great. just an idea.

Venting without an outside air source is going to be difficult.
What I have to do is open the doors whenever my light is on and use my Bedroom AC to control the heat build up in summer or crack my window in winter.
I regulate my grow room temps by regulating my bedroom temps.

If you look back at my grow journals you will see what I use for fans.

Its not easy but can be done and with great results, if I may say so myself.


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## Carlo (Mar 7, 2011)

Right on GrowDude! Just as I was losing hope.... Since no one is in the house, I can have the closet doors open (and even the bedroom door if needed) and can regulate the room with the house's a.c.  I'm going to look at your journals. Thanks alot. Hope it works.

How many plants can you flower in the 2x5 closet?


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## Llama (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm going out on a limb here in reference to ventilation. Last year I did a 'bathtub grow' that was very successful. I grew 10 plants to harvest in a 6'x3' bathtub. I built a light frame out of pvc pipe. I covered the whole thing with white polyvynil. My sole light was a 600w hps. The only ventilation I used were two 'cheap' oscillating fans. The grow room plastic was always open during the light phase and closed during the dark phase of 12/12. I never had a heat build up issue. I kept a thermometer in with the plants and it never exceed 82 degrees.My next grow is in a dedicated room that is 10'x16' I will grow no more than 12 plants at a time. The plants will have AC and fans, but again, no ventilation other than leaving the door open. I will again be using a 600w hps for my lighting needs. As soon as I start this grow, I will start a journal w/pics. My premise is that if you have a big enough space, you may not need the extra expense of ventilation.


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## dman1234 (Apr 5, 2011)

ventalation isnt only for cooling but for the replenishment of co2, plants need fresh air to grow.


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## nouvellechef (Apr 5, 2011)

Llama said:
			
		

> I'm going out on a limb here in reference to ventilation. Last year I did a 'bathtub grow' that was very successful. I grew 10 plants to harvest in a 6'x3' bathtub. I built a light frame out of pvc pipe. I covered the whole thing with white polyvynil. My sole light was a 600w hps. The only ventilation I used were two 'cheap' oscillating fans. The grow room plastic was always open during the light phase and closed during the dark phase of 12/12. I never had a heat build up issue. I kept a thermometer in with the plants and it never exceed 82 degrees.My next grow is in a dedicated room that is 10'x16' I will grow no more than 12 plants at a time. The plants will have AC and fans, but again, no ventilation other than leaving the door open. I will again be using a 600w hps for my lighting needs. As soon as I start this grow, I will start a journal w/pics. My premise is that if you have a big enough space, you may not need the extra expense of ventilation.



Your crazy. You have not a clue of what you are talking about. What defines successful? Ventilation provides numerous things. 10x16 and a 600? Sweet. Cant wait for dank pics.


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## Locked (Apr 5, 2011)

Llama said:
			
		

> I'm going out on a limb here in reference to ventilation. Last year I did a 'bathtub grow' that was very successful. I grew 10 plants to harvest in a 6'x3' bathtub. I built a light frame out of pvc pipe. I covered the whole thing with white polyvynil. My sole light was a 600w hps. The only ventilation I used were two 'cheap' oscillating fans. The grow room plastic was always open during the light phase and closed during the dark phase of 12/12. I never had a heat build up issue. I kept a thermometer in with the plants and it never exceed 82 degrees.My next grow is in a dedicated room that is 10'x16' I will grow no more than 12 plants at a time. The plants will have AC and fans, but again, no ventilation other than leaving the door open. I will again be using a 600w hps for my lighting needs. As soon as I start this grow, I will start a journal w/pics. My premise is that if you have a big enough space, you may not need the extra expense of ventilation.




Do a grow *with* adequate ventilation and then tell us if you still think the grow without really was successful....yes you can grow MJ with very little ventilation and probably get some bud but you wld do a lot better with ventilation...and who the helll wants to be bothered with opening and closing plastic everyday? What a PITA that wld be....

And I am not even going to comment on the absurdity of using one 600w in a 10x16 area....


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## Jericho (Apr 5, 2011)

Llama said:
			
		

> I'm going out on a limb here in reference to ventilation. Last year I did a 'bathtub grow' that was very successful. I grew 10 plants to harvest in a 6'x3' bathtub. I built a light frame out of pvc pipe. I covered the whole thing with white polyvynil. My sole light was a 600w hps. The only ventilation I used were two 'cheap' oscillating fans. The grow room plastic was always open during the light phase and closed during the dark phase of 12/12. I never had a heat build up issue. I kept a thermometer in with the plants and it never exceed 82 degrees.My next grow is in a dedicated room that is 10'x16' I will grow no more than 12 plants at a time. *The plants will have AC and fans, but again, no ventilation* other than leaving the door open. I will again be using a 600w hps for my lighting needs. As soon as I start this grow, I will start a journal w/pics. My premise is that if you have a big enough space, you may not need the extra expense of ventilation.



If you are using an AC unit then you have ventilation, otherwise were is the hot air going?


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## Growdude (Apr 5, 2011)

Jericho said:
			
		

> If you are using an AC unit then you have ventilation, otherwise were is the hot air going?


 
The hot air is recirculated thru the cooling fins in the front, the hot air you feel out the back of a AC is the air cooling the condensor.

But as far as (proper ventilation) all my grows were done with only a window in a bedroom closet with only a AC , small closet grow. Open and close doors each day.
I have yet to see bigger buds grown indoors.

Yes its a PITA but I gotta do what I gotta do it just can be done.


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