# What to do about rising electric cost?



## Kilowatt2008 (Jan 16, 2009)

I have done almost everything.... 
I am asking anyone? 
who knows anything about saving or reducing my power bill.
So i may still afford to keep on going?
I saw a product has anyone heard or used this devise on h20gardening.com
rpu190? if so let me know what you think??

Please help or I might have to shut everything off just to afford my month bill.


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## mendo local (Jan 16, 2009)

Gotta pay to play.


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## CasualGrower (Jan 16, 2009)

I searched h2ogardening.com for that product and did not find the product.


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## mendo local (Jan 16, 2009)

I looked too, couldnt find it


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## kubefuism (Jan 16, 2009)

If your in serious need... Find an electrian whose your buddy as well... talk to him about capacitors.  They hold a charge for your bulb strike so they don't suck all kinds of juice from your line causing the spike.  They slowly feed and hold a charge.  Turning a bulb on consumes the most power.  this is really affective is you have the means... Good luck


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## yumyumbubblegum (Jan 16, 2009)

*When you say everything do you mean everything? I have a 1000w digital system, Vortex fan, fan inside the tent (both fans 24/7), a little space heater (on low 24/7) and my bill only went up $20, I changed every single light bulb in my house with mini CFL's and saved like a extra $7.00, so basically I am paying $13.00 xtra, I am guessing your KWH charge is more then mine tho...*

*IMO the only way to grow for free is outdoors, but evenstill there is a cost, as we all know the reward always outways the cost... :hubba:*


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 16, 2009)

I use the heat from the light to heat my bedroom in the winter, thereby saving on my heating cost.  However, the way I look at is that, no matter how expensive electricity gets, it is not going to ever cost more to grow it than it does to buy it.


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## BBFan (Jan 16, 2009)

All good advice, though I think yumyum gave you the best advice- look at the other items in your home that consume electricity and how you can reduce those costs- cfl's in light fixtures, turn off and unplug items you're not using, how cold is your refrigerator- turn it up a bit, etc.
Unless you've got a massive grow set-up, making these adjustments will offset your increased costs.
And like HG said- it sure alot cheaper than going out and buying it!


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## 215zealot (Jan 16, 2009)

Well, you need to cut ALL corners, but unless you are running 4000 watts you dont need to really worry.

We converted every single light bulb to CFL, they run 14 watts instead of the standard 60 watt light bulbs, so we shaved off about 200 watts in my house that way.

Also, when your TV and computer are off, shut off the power strip 100% so it isnt sucking up juice.   We also never run the heater or any other electric appliances unless absolutely neccesary.

The only thing i indulge in is my flatscreen and xbox, which runs about 1000 watts, but i try to keep that down to a 2 hours a day between me and the roomate.


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## leafminer (Jan 16, 2009)

Well, like Country Cowfreak says, man, you go big.  
He suggests relocating in survivor mode in some deserted and hurricane-bashed part of the SE, establishing an air strip, getting in touch with Mr Chavez, who will recognise you as an independent country and open an embassy, and it will be simple to export the product in the diplomatic bag.
Me, I am not so sure. 
I think maybe having a glass roof might be a better solution.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 16, 2009)

H20 used to carry that product, they got a lot of heat from the power companies and took it off their site, even though they still sell it.  However, I found their supplier.  http***rpu190 DOT 9966 DOT org

I found this post due to doing a google search because I told my brother about this thing about two weeks ago and he wanted to buy it, when I went back to h20 they no longer have it on the site, so I called them.  Me being a tighwad w/ my cash, I did more googling.  This little bad boy works... and works well.  I wont go into what I have running, but lets just say that I am not concerned about my pwer bill being any type of red flag to undesired people.

~HTR~


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## mendo local (Jan 16, 2009)

Kilowatt2008 said:
			
		

> I have done almost everything....
> I am asking anyone?
> who knows anything about saving or reducing my power bill.
> So i may still afford to keep on going?
> ...


 

And he didnt even come back after 1 post.


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## Tater (Jan 17, 2009)

Where are you people drawing power from that is this dirty?  Do you run your home off of generators?  The electrical grid is monitored for spikes and surges and for the most part they do a good job.  I have my doubts on whether that thing would work in town at all.  It sure would stop the power spikes from showing when your lamps fire up, but so do digital ballasts.  Not only that but is your lights turning on going to be your giveaway or maybe it will be the 4000 watts of power being consumed for 12 hours everyday like clockwork.


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## andy52 (Jan 17, 2009)

i do not pay an electrical bill in MI. and was wondering if anyone else living here could give me an estimate on what their cost is for running there grows.i've been using 1 400 watt lumatek with 2 blowers.


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## Flyinghigh (Jan 17, 2009)

yumyumbubblegum said:
			
		

> *When you say everything do you mean everything? I have a 1000w digital system, Vortex fan, fan inside the tent (both fans 24/7), a little space heater (on low 24/7) and my bill only went up $20, I changed every single light bulb in my house with mini CFL's and saved like a extra $7.00, so basically I am paying $13.00 xtra, I am guessing your KWH charge is more then mine tho...*
> 
> *IMO the only way to grow for free is outdoors, but evenstill there is a cost, as we all know the reward always outways the cost... :hubba:*


 
:rofl: :rofl: With all what U said about what U run and ur bill Only went Up 20 bucks....:rofl: 
I must be doing something wrong because as soon as I hooked up my 400 watt Hps and ran fan 24/7 and my bill went up 45 bucks more a month and with my heater going, it went up another bucks which I don't know and I have change all my light in the house to CFL's too..


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## Hidesert (Jan 17, 2009)

I live in the calif desert with 350 days of pure sunshine. I lowered my electrical bills from $300 a month to $250 a year !!!  I installed a 5 Kw solar system. My meter runs backwards during the day and then runs forward in the night. Its called "Net Metering". My solar energy produced during the day is fed back into the electrical grid, thus the backward rotation of my meter. I have a 2200 sgft house, 1000 sgft photography studio, heated pool, hot tub and the bill is only $240 a year and I get that bill once a year.
When i turned my 400 w MH and my Agro Son 430w HPS light on I never saw a difference in my electrical


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## Hick (Jan 17, 2009)

Hidesert said:
			
		

> I live in the calif desert with 350 days of pure sunshine..... I have a 2200 sgft house, 1000 sgft photography studio, heated pool, hot tub .....


.. Need a 'house guest'??


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## 84VW (Jan 17, 2009)

Hidesert said:
			
		

> I live in the calif desert with 350 days of pure sunshine. I lowered my electrical bills from $300 a month to $250 a year !!!  I installed a 5 Kw solar system. My meter runs backwards during the day and then runs forward in the night. Its called "Net Metering". My solar energy produced during the day is fed back into the electrical grid, thus the backward rotation of my meter. I have a 2200 sgft house, 1000 sgft photography studio, heated pool, hot tub and the bill is only $240 a year and I get that bill once a year.
> When i turned my 400 w MH and my Agro Son 430w HPS light on I never saw a difference in my electrical



do you mind sharing what the initial setup cost was?

everything i have found so far is just to expensive for me to setup right now


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## Vegs (Jan 17, 2009)

> give me an estimate on what their cost is for running there grows



About 20 some-odd bones.


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## Kilowatt2008 (Jan 17, 2009)

Kilowatt2008 said:
			
		

> I have done almost everything....
> I am asking anyone?
> who knows anything about saving or reducing my power bill.
> So i may still afford to keep on going?
> ...



1/17/09 UPDATE

I found a website I bought the device.  It was to much. But no one else buy
one tile I know how it works.
I did get a copy of my TOS from the power company. It say this device is 
illegal meaning a (2nd degree misdameanor) + a $300 meter reset fee.

and only if the power company want to press charges?

SO with that in hand I am going for it.:hubba:

I can not afford to loose all my work. I invest over $25k. 

I have 7 fixtures running + attic fans + 5 ton AC unit + 16 pumps + CO2 + an RO filter system and A 24/7 Ip camera set up.

I only need 65 more days to complete my initial start up. I will let you all know the out come. In 2 weeks i get a bill for half my usage. Last month was nearly $600 (Tip never go over $800 in my area call for a driveby and a fly over) Plus the power company raised their rates by 25% for this jan month. I am FREAKING out.:holysheep:


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## Hidesert (Jan 17, 2009)

start out cost was about $45,000 after all of the rebates, both federal and state that was $17,000, my out of pocket was $28,000. If you spread that out for 10 years, my monthly would have been $230 for the amount. Should be getting my yearly bill next month.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 17, 2009)

Hidesert said:
			
		

> start out cost was about $45,000 after all of the rebates, both federal and state that was $17,000, my out of pocket was $28,000. If you spread that out for 10 years, my monthly would have been $230 for the amount. Should be getting my yearly bill next month.



WOW!!  That is a lot of cash I would rather spend on other stuff... the deal I got was 200 smackers and took me just a couple minutes to install and I was done.  Since I have installed mine (just short of a year ago)  I show a lot less usage, but I actually have a lot of things running... plus I saved over 1k $$ over what I paid last year.

~HTR~


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## unogrowdude (Jan 17, 2009)

When talking about your ele bill you should look at what you are paying a kilowatt hr now, then if you can look at what you were paying for a kilowatt hr last year. Utilitily companys hike their rates every year.


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## INTHEDES (Jan 17, 2009)

I live in the calif desert with 350 days of pure sunshine. what a coincidence,oyr altitude is around 2300 feet above sea level, it was around 75-80 today!pretty cool(warm)


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## Romy (Jan 17, 2009)

Buy a lot of water, as much as your refridgerator and freezer can hold and put it in both your freezer and the fridge. Its kinda hard to explain, but imagine a cooler. You put ice in it and it keeps your stuff cool. Ice lasts a lot longer in a closed, insulated environment as opposed to an open environment. So by doing this, you're turning your fridge (biggest energy cost in every home) into an oversized cooler, so it won't have to click on and keep things cool as long, thereby saving you a little more money.


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## Hidesert (Jan 18, 2009)

INTHEEDES .....where from Ridgecrest here


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## Hidesert (Jan 18, 2009)

hardtoremember what did you install?


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## TheEnhancementSmoker (Jan 18, 2009)

Romy said:
			
		

> fridge (biggest energy cost in every home)


I don't know what your source is for that, but I can guarantee you that my A/C costs way more to run than the fridge.


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## ross (Jan 18, 2009)

you invested over 25K?  wow how many pounds are you planning on getting?


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## hardtoremember (Jan 18, 2009)

Hidesert said:
			
		

> hardtoremember what did you install?



That rpu gadget that was asked about in the beginning of the thread... he was asking where to get it.  I originally got my from h20 gardens, my brother wanted one several months later, and I found h20's supplier for a little less $$.  I noticed in another thread on this forum and a thread on another forum some people saying sounds too good to be true.  Well, I use it and have been for just over a year now, it paid for itself in the first 30, and I have saved over 1k from what I paid last year, as well as running a bit more than what I ran last year.  200 bucks beats the hell outta 45k up front costs.  One day I may go with some of those solar panels and such, because I just think it smart to be prepared, but while I am short on $$, this will do well for me.

~HTR~


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## hardtoremember (Jan 18, 2009)

TheEnhancementSmoker said:
			
		

> I don't know what your source is for that, but I can guarantee you that my A/C costs way more to run than the fridge.



No doubt, I have never heard of a fridge being a high kw user, my a/c is a damn hog compared to my fridge.  He may have a fridge from the early 50's or something, an antique he doesnt want to part with maybe?

~HTR~


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## INTHEDES (Jan 18, 2009)

hardtoremember said:
			
		

> That rpu gadget that was asked about in the beginning of the thread... he was asking where to get it. I originally got my from h20 gardens, my brother wanted one several months later, and I found h20's supplier for a little less $$. I noticed in another thread on this forum and a thread on another forum some people saying sounds too good to be true. Well, I use it and have been for just over a year now, it paid for itself in the first 30, and I have saved over 1k from what I paid last year, as well as running a bit more than what I ran last year. 200 bucks beats the hell outta 45k up front costs. One day I may go with some of those solar panels and such, because I just think it smart to be prepared, but while I am short on $$, this will do well for me.
> 
> ~HTR~


 
I'm interested in paying $200 & savin thousands,thee me specifics


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## hardtoremember (Jan 18, 2009)

hardtoremember said:
			
		

> H20 used to carry that product, they got a lot of heat from the power companies and took it off their site, even though they still sell it.  However, I found their supplier.  http***rpu190 DOT 9966 DOT org
> 
> I found this post due to doing a google search because I told my brother about this thing about two weeks ago and he wanted to buy it, when I went back to h20 they no longer have it on the site, so I called them.  Me being a tighwad w/ my cash, I did more googling.  This little bad boy works... and works well.  I wont go into what I have running, but lets just say that I am not concerned about my pwer bill being any type of red flag to undesired people.
> 
> ~HTR~



Here is the info I gave earlier in the thread, website name is there.   I talked to the guy there today, he said he is willing to do a review with this site if they are interested.  I can tell you personally, it works, and its worth it.  I have talked to these guys several times because I have sent friends there, lets just say the friends I sent there have nto come after me for messing things up, they have actually hooked me up with some of their contacts for stuff that I needed 

~HTR~


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## Hick (Jan 19, 2009)

..."stealing" electricity is NEVER a good idea. It not only reflects negatively on all growers, but also provides leo with "another" charge _"when"_ you do get caught.
  On any given day, you can find a headline reading about guys like you..
"Grow-op busted after worker discovers utility theft"... so now the uninformed believe that we are all not only pot smokers, but we are thieves as well. 
"Most" of us here, are working, upstanding citizens of the community. Some are little league coaches, volunteer firemen, business owners, nurses, room mothers at school. The list goes on and on. "THAT" is the image that we should make efforts to convey/portray. Not further incriminate the growing community, by showing the world we are also theives.. "IMHO"... 
  Nothing is going to make the elec. co. report you/turn you in/prosecute you faster, than stealing their product.


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## The Effen Gee (Jan 19, 2009)

Wanna save power?

DITCH THE THOUSAND WATTERS!!!

they are outdated and obsolete. 

I (we) rock 600's and grow monsters, saves a significant amount of power.

Plus, if you are running your flower cycle through the day, it's gonna cost you. My lights turn on @ 10:00pm and turn off @ 10:00am.

My power bill is pretty cheap. Plus I only run minimal ventilation fans during the dark cycle. 

No need for wind tunnels in the dark.


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## aaonehundred (Jan 19, 2009)

I thinks this is what guy is talking about .. hXXp://www.reducepowerusage.com/


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## The Effen Gee (Jan 19, 2009)

Ah, yes, the RPU-190.

I see folks selling them all the time either in the hydro store or on Craigslist. 

I have heard mixed reviews, I feel a little apprehensive, like I do about LED technology.

I gotta see results FIRST. Or hear from someone firsthand who had successful results.

If so, that's the next thing on the "Stuff I really, really need to buy" list.


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## leafminer (Jan 19, 2009)

I'm an electrical installation engineer with experience up to 16,000V/10MW and I can tell you right now, that the RP thingy is a scam.
The only way you could reduce your bills by connecting something ACROSS the meter - between the in and out terminals - is if that device either diverts power that would otherwise flow through the meter (in which case the RP190 will basically be a piece of thick wire that you're paying for - totally ILLEGAL - it is called THEFT - 
or, it has a current transformer in it and turns the meter backwards (yes I know how to build these for about $15 and I don't tell people how because once again it is illegal, and theft)
Any idea of connecting capacitors to 'correct the power factor' is complete rubbish because all you would be doing is reducing the losses in the power company's own lines. It will not do a thing for your power consumption. And the power company usually seals "their" side of the meter and makes it illegal to break those seals.
So it's a scam. Either ON you or BY you.
Oh, and please don't connect car audio stabiliser caps across your house supply. It will go off like a hand grenade. Literally.


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## Vegs (Jan 19, 2009)

> If so, that's the next thing on the "Stuff I really, really need to buy" list.



Oh yeah!


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## diablo_cannabis (Jan 20, 2009)

Kilowatt2008 said:
			
		

> 1/17/09 UPDATE
> 
> I found a website I bought the device.  It was to much. But no one else buy
> one tile I know how it works.
> ...



if you can afford to have 25k invested in this project why is a measly 600 bucks a month such a big deal? And any type of device or attempt to steal power will set off more red flags than your total power consumption.

if you are concerned about 'fly overs' or 'drive bys' insulate your rooms. Fly overs and drive bys are non issues where i live, but i did it anyway because of the harsh summers.  --- Spend a few hundred bucks on some r15 insulation, crawl up into the attic and lay it all out above your grow rooms put several layers if need be.
 for the walls i used 2" polystyrene sheets, they come in 4' x 8' sheets, and just put a few dabs of silicone and stuck them to the walls. I doubled up so i now have 8" of total insulation on my exterior walls.

this should eliminate the need for a heater and you should only need oscillating fans or can fans, which are much cheaper to run.


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## Hick (Jan 20, 2009)

> Please help or I might have to shut everything off just to afford my month bill......
> 
> I can not afford to loose all my work. I invest over $25k..........
> 
> I have 7 fixtures running + attic fans + 5 ton AC unit + 16 pumps + CO2 + an RO filter system and A 24/7 Ip camera set up



I'm just not sure, but the longer this goes, the more it appears an elaborate charade' to get the product attention. (a similar charade as the LED lights fiasco)
I mean comon'.... if you invest *$25,000*.... you wouldn't foresee, anticipate future electrical costs???.. *$25000* invested ..and can't afford a measly $600 bill?
_Something_ just doesn't 'gel well'...:confused2:


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## The Effen Gee (Jan 20, 2009)

wow.

with 25k I would have installed solar arrays and a battery bay to take myself off the grid.

Man, with that kind of investment, I may have attempted to tap into the earths heat by drilling a hole into the mantle...

How and why did you manage to spend so much money?

I have and often help design and build grow rooms often...I have yet to see ANYTHING cost more than 9 or 10k at the most.

...did you buy the gold plated ballasts?


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## hardtoremember (Jan 20, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> ..."stealing" electricity is NEVER a good idea. It not only reflects negatively on all growers, but also provides leo with "another" charge _"when"_ you do get caught.
> On any given day, you can find a headline reading about guys like you..
> "Grow-op busted after worker discovers utility theft"... so now the uninformed believe that we are all not only pot smokers, but we are thieves as well.
> "Most" of us here, are working, upstanding citizens of the community. Some are little league coaches, volunteer firemen, business owners, nurses, room mothers at school. The list goes on and on. "THAT" is the image that we should make efforts to convey/portray. Not further incriminate the growing community, by showing the world we are also theives.. "IMHO"...
> Nothing is going to make the elec. co. report you/turn you in/prosecute you faster, than stealing their product.



WOW!!! interesting the way someone can make something sound good only if it suits them, but if it doesnt, they go to a MORAL high ground and look down their nose at it.  Growing and using marijuana in most area's of North America is ILLEGAL, no matter the reason you rationalize it for yourself.  Yet, using a device to reduce your powerbill by way of a product that was clearly explained to me before I purchased it that it does not steal or cheat in anyway, it simply is similar to inserting a device to your vehicle to have better petro consumption than the way it was manufactured, is that illegal and looked down upon also?  I was sent an email by the sales person over there explaining the technology of this, it is not some bypass, diversion, or cheating item, it keeps them from over charging you because of spikes and surges.  For example, when your a/c comes on, there is a huge spike when it comes on, then it goes down to normal consumption, this thing keeps that spike from happening and you from paying for it.  For you, "theft" is too much of a disgrace sounding thing, yet for me, it is more of a disgrace to be known for using drugs, do you see how that sounds and how insulting it can be.  I personally dont touch the stuff, I grow for my brother who is incapable of doing it for himself, the truth of the matter for either case, I am not injuring anyone or violating anyones rights (U.S. Constitution).  I hold my head high because I do not use drugs, nor do I steal.  I find it insulting that someone who does not have one or know anything about it will judge me as a theif on a forum based on illegal activity in most area's.

This comment goes to "leafminer" as well, which moral high ground are you on about what is ILLEGAL and ok, and what is ILLEGAL and not ok?  I know for a fact that what I installed is not illegal.  I dont care if you THINK you can make one for 5 bucks, I am happy for what I paid, because it was explained that there are people out ther that THINK they know how to make this, and they are talking before actually knowing what this thing is, it is not just some peice of metal jammed into that back of a meter or something, that kind of stuff will get someone hurt, killed, or homeless due to fire.  I feel safer with this thing on my house for several reasons, I now have less risk of fire in my house because now I dont have spikes going through my house that could cause an electrical fire, I also am not worried about some jerk at the power company that smokes pot at home deciding that I am breaking some law because my consumption is above what he "thinks" it should be and rats me out to Law Enforcement so I get harrassed.

Just my honest opinion, did not expect to get flamed or to flame, or to judge or be judged in a forum like this.  Just answered a question that I knew that answer to.

~HTR~

P.S.  I also just noticed the post that this is a charade of some sort... I dont get paid by anyone to state my opinion, I am in the security consulting business  and have been for over 12 years, I have no need to make sales for some internet site.


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## The Effen Gee (Jan 20, 2009)

^^^^

There is a giant difference between "Stealing" and "Growing Marijuana" (which is kind of stealing from the govt')

You wan't to talk about moral integrity...why do I have to PAY MONEY for fresh, clean water?

HHMMMM???


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## Lemmongrass (Jan 20, 2009)

because you live in an area densely populated enough that there isnt abundant naturally occurring clean water so you pay a company to transport clean and deliver it to you at a nominal fee. you are paying for the difference in water quality as there is no way to sustainable consume fresh water that isnt processed with 6.3b on this rock.

of course you could always go to the red motherland, where communist water meter pays you!


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## hardtoremember (Jan 20, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> ^^^^
> 
> There is a giant difference between "Stealing" and "Growing Marijuana" (which is kind of stealing from the govt')
> 
> ...



Lets examine what you just said, first, there is a difference between stealing and growing marijuana... what is the difference if they are both considered to be against someones law?  Second, having to pay money for fresh, clean water, if you were to purchase and/or create a device to process and clean the water coming from your tap to be as healthy as the water you get from a clean river in the hills, is that cheating the water company that is sending you in their opinion fresh, clean water?  And to save the pipes in your house, you connect this device to the main line?  That almost sounds like theft huh?  If I am attaching to the main line, I must be doing something illegal?  Just saying things off the top of my head, as I said before though, I find it interesting how someone can rationalize something that suits them, but if in their opinion, they dont like it or find it not in their own moral area of agreement, they judge THAT person as being the "bad person" or simply look down their nose at them... My mom used to call that... the pot calling the kettle black.

~HTR~


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 20, 2009)

We are not talking about man's laws and the legality of growing or theft--we are talking about morals, right and wrong.  If you do not see the moral difference between growing a natural substance that is legal in many places and stealing...well, I am speechless.


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## The Effen Gee (Jan 20, 2009)

The water issue is about moral integrity not stealing.

If you have guilt issues with "your masters" who seem to be a bunch to be feared (not by me though) than you need to take that up with yourself. 

Not here.

Growing weed in your house or on your property is not stealing. In fact you are STIMULATING THE ECONOMY because if you are doing things right...

...it's EXPENSIVE.

I agree, saving power would be great, but I don't think attaching a large capacitor to your house is going to effect much.

We turn on our lights @ 10% (we use dimmable 600 watt digitals) and then SLOWLY increase the light intensity.

Works like a charm.

Tips: 

Insulate your room.
Vent well and EFFICIENTLY.
DITCH THE THOUSAND WATT LIGHTS!!!!!
Get a PH meter
Use Mylar or white paint...everywhere.
Run 16/8 then 12/12 to save power
Open the doors and let your room heat your house, which rocks by the way.
Purchase more effective and efficient fans.
Get a thermostat up.
Put your fans on timers, only need a small circulator for the dark right?

Now drop all this "we are doing a disservice to our society" crap and save that for the D.A.R.E. preasentations to scare fifth graders.

No guilt for what I do here and.....

ABSOLUTELY NO GUILT FOR RIPPING OFF THE MAN. EVER. PERIOD. 

Water is not property, it's a resource and could be free to all.


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## tcbud (Jan 20, 2009)

I'm going with bb, turn off the powerstrips to the computer and TV, anything that is "instant" on is pretty much "on" all the time.  Heating with the lights from the grow room is also good advise.
I live in a place that prolly has the cheapest power in the nation and my bank of floros raises my bill about $20 a month.  Good to know now, that a 1000w light is not preferable to the 600w.
Good luck to you.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 20, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> The water issue is about moral integrity not stealing.
> 
> If you have guilt issues with "your masters" who seem to be a bunch to be feared (not by me though) than you need to take that up with yourself.
> 
> ...



The point I was making is that being judged on an item I answered a question about being told that I am stealing, when I know for a fact I am not is a bit unnerving, I used maybe some poor metaphores to make my point... but the bottom line is that unless you test something yourself, why would I be called a theif in so many words, you even got it wrong above... it is not a capacitor, and has never been described as one, yet... it is stealing?  So far I have seen a lot of guessing on what I purchased, and no facts, one person has said it bypasses, or steals, the other said it is a capacitor, and that stealing is bad... what the hell?!  I am not stealing, I am not trying to steal, I am not having denial about it or anything of the sort, the damn thing works for me, I never endorsed it for anyone here to go out and buy it or break any laws, I just gave my account and made a comment about spending 200 instead of 45k on a more socially accepted method of saving power, or doing all these, unplug your strips, buy more  modern this or that, I just paid 200, took 5 to install it, and wham bam it works, and not by way of breaking any laws that have been inferred... sorry I posted an answer to a question.  I'll leave it at that.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 20, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> We are not talking about man's laws and the legality of growing or theft--we are talking about morals, right and wrong.  If you do not see the moral difference between growing a natural substance that is legal in many places and stealing...well, I am speechless.



Repetative.... What is moral for you and what is moral for someone else is always going to be different, why push yours on me and me push mine on you is the point I was making... FYI: as said several times, I know I am not stealing, someone simply inferred I did and I take that as insult by someone who themselves rationalizes wrong and right or moral or immoral based on what suits them.  I simply used metaphores based on what was talked about, even if it were completely my opinion or not does not matter.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 20, 2009)

What I am speechless about is the ignorant judgement based on ignorance... not meant as an insult, meant as the words actually mean.  I would not debate politics if I did not know about the politician in office, so if you really dont know about what I installed, how can you intelligently base some of these comments as some sort of fact.

~HTR~

I'm done... I'll leave it alone, and it sucks this is how I made my first impression on a forum I hoped to enjoy.


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## The Effen Gee (Jan 20, 2009)

Hold on a second and take a breath or two.

If this works for you, than what do you care what other people think?

I suggested a thread section dedicated to product reviews..

upon reading most of this thread I will assume it wont work in reality 'cause too many folks feelings get hurt. Perhaps it would not work.

If you say this Item works, effectively than you could leave it at that. Answer as many questions as you can and try to not get riled up when you feel attacked. Takes away from the item and the issue, saving power.

Led's get shot down constantly, I feel some of it is the helplessness that most of us are forced to use the most inefficient lights on the planet. 

What do you mean I have to run 2400watts of power for 12 hours a day?

I really wish this problem could be addressed more and I feel as legalization for mediciane will help the industry develop itself and we will get those amazing new inventions that save the day...

For now I guess it's really a sore spot for most...Including myself.

..and please, don't give up on us.


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## Hick (Jan 21, 2009)

hardtoremember said:
			
		

> I'll leave it alone, and it sucks this is how I made my first impression on a forum I hoped to enjoy.


Okay, I appreciate an 'honest' review. But I have also been around theses forums long enough to know that the charades/scams that I spoke of, DO exist. 
If I wrongfully accused you, I apologize. 
  But I question the legality of your device. If it's all legal and legit, why oh WHY, would the site be forced to remove it from their site product list? If I'm selling a "device" to improve your "petro" mileage, am I going to remove it from the market because Exxon tells me to?? If it isn't "cheating" or stealing from the service provider, why would "they" care? 


> I did get a copy of my TOS from the power company. It say this device is
> illegal meaning a (2nd degree misdameanor) + a $300 meter reset fee.


Can Exxon prosecute me for swapping out my 4 barrel Holly double pumper for a 2 barrel FoMoCo?? No.
but If I attach a device to their gas pumps, that decieves or cheats them, by reciving "petrol" without paying for it.(your analogy)They most likely can. That would be "stealing", no?
If in fact, the 'device' actually allows you to consume "less" power, THAT isn't "stealing".. then the elec. supplier would not have a legal leg to stand on, in attempting to prosecute a consumer or distibuter of the device. 
No different than Exxon prosecuting FoMoCo for distributing 2 barrel carb's.
Am I way off base here?? 

I'm sorry you toook such great offense to my "moral" high ground. But as I see it.. "a spade is a spade is a spade"... if you are recieving and useing electricity produced by a supplier without paying the supplier, IMO (and apparently in the eyes of the electical suppliers and many here).. it's stealing. 
  If you are useing "less" power/energy by improving "efficiency" that is not stealing...IMO
I fail ro see any middle ground. Either you are paying for the elec. you use or you aren't.


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## INTHEDES (Jan 21, 2009)

Hold on here guys,if you don't like what is written...don't read it(we still have a couple rights...)but me ,myself would like to know a-little something something about this.
1.Can your meter reader see the rpu190?
2.Can a person with no electrical experience install?
3.You said something to the matter of they took it off their site but still offer it,or something to that matter.You also said something about it NOT being ILLEGAL.I'm having mixxed emotions about that.
4.How could the electric company know your implicating this"rpu190"(***. the answer to #1 is no)
 I'm interested but need to know more,thank you 4 your time.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 21, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> Okay, I appreciate an 'honest' review. But I have also been around theses forums long enough to know that the charades/scams that I spoke of, DO exist.
> If I wrongfully accused you, I apologize.
> But I question the legality of your device. If it's all legal and legit, why oh WHY, would the site be forced to remove it from their site product list? If I'm selling a "device" to improve your "petro" mileage, am I going to remove it from the market because Exxon tells me to?? If it isn't "cheating" or stealing from the service provider, why would "they" care?
> 
> ...



I understand your viewpoint, but everything I have learned about the product I am using, you are not stealing, you are not getting more power for nothing, it makes it so you pay for what you use and doesnt allow spikes and surges to go through your meter, which is a huge amount of your bill.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 21, 2009)

INTHEDES said:
			
		

> Hold on here guys,if you don't like what is written...don't read it(we still have a couple rights...)but me ,myself would like to know a-little something something about this.
> 1.Can your meter reader see the rpu190?
> 2.Can a person with no electrical experience install?
> 3.You said something to the matter of they took it off their site but still offer it,or something to that matter.You also said something about it NOT being ILLEGAL.I'm having mixxed emotions about that.
> ...



No, you cant see it once you install it, I installed it and I am not an electrician, took me about 5 minutes, they sent me a video on how to do it when I got it.  When I called h20, they said they were getting harrassed by a couple utility companies, but nothing legal happened, they just didnt want to deal with them, so they just sell it when people ask about it, one lady there said she would probably put it back on the site later.  I have had mine on for over a year and have not got any hassle, my bill always goes lower in the winter anyway, thats when I put mine on, my biggest savings are over the summer because of my a/c.

I gave their website earlier to answer someone else, you prob should call them, they are the ones who sell it and can explain a lot better than me.

~HTR~


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## INTHEDES (Jan 21, 2009)

did you have to remove their "seal" or their meter in any way?


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## iClown (Jan 21, 2009)

Kilowatt2008 said:
			
		

> I have done almost everything....
> I am asking anyone?
> who knows anything about saving or reducing my power bill.
> So i may still afford to keep on going?
> ...


 I USE CFLs FOR EVERYTHING. GROWING. SEEING. EVERYTHING.


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## INTHEDES (Jan 23, 2009)

i RUN MY LIGHTS 4 12 HOURS(8PM-8AM),SO I CAN REMOVE VEGGIN PLANTS (DURING THE NIGHT CYCLE)AND PLACE BY THE WINDOW.


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## hardtoremember (Jan 23, 2009)

INTHEDES said:
			
		

> did you have to remove their "seal" or their meter in any way?



There is no "seal" on my meter, even when they replaced it with the newer digital meter, they did not put one on.  If you do have a tag, the video I got from them shows a way to remove it if you want to, without cutting it.

~HTR~


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