# Tips and tricks with PJ using LED tech, It's not just the lights



## P Jammers

*Lucas on Pruning

**I have been using these techniques for years, and  find they work really well on plants from seed, and I still remove most  of the lower branches on cuts. Figured I'd share this info for anyone  who does not practice pruning, or understand why it is we do it.

PJ
 *



*> How do you feel about pruning*

                                    I am strongly in favor of pruning,  and think PistilWhipt deserves great respect for popularizing the  concept with our community.


                 5-6oz from 250w is excellent, and would probably be of lower quality and lower quantity without pruning.


                 My rules of thumb on pruning are as follows.
                 1. Remove the bottom 3 main branch pairs, they will end  up shaded, and will produce popcorn if left on the plant.
                 2. Prune before going 12/12, not after, or at least no later than 2 weeks into 12/12
                 3. Using a model of an unpruned plant that has produced   the 7th leaf pair, topping it below the 7th pair (use the top as a   clone) 

                 and then removing the bottom 3 branch pairs (can also  be used as clones) will leave three strong branch pairs to be bloomed.
                 4. On large plants, whose 3 main branch pairs from step  3  exceed 12" in length before 12/12, each of those 3 branch pairs will   also benefit from removing the bottom 3 branch pairs...
                 It is VERY beneficial to focus plant energy into strong   shoots, and to remove any shoots that are less than 1/8" in diameter  by 2  weeks into 12/12.
                 Fat shoots make FAT buds.


*> So now I wonder about all that bottom growth - to trim or not to trim?*
                Im a big proponent of pruning here are some parameters


                 1. in my experience, the first 3 branch pairs from the   bottom are going to be thin, will get shaded, and will produce popcorn.  I  cut them off at beginning of 12/12, for use as clones for the next   cycle..
               2. if leaves are touching close to the mainstem 3 weeks   after 12/12 starts, to a point where condensation occurs overnight   between overlapping leaves, the canopy is too dense, I will remove the   first 3 pairs of shoots at the bottom of main branches, same as I treat   the mainstem..
               3. I top plants above leaf pair #6, leaving a total of 6   branches to bloom..2 weeks after topping is a good time to flip to   12/12... topping and removal of lower side branches can also be done   together, at begin 12/12.. depends on plant density how big a bush you   veg to....

*> I'm still confused whether trimming the very  bottom  branches puts more energy into the tops or diminishes overall  plant  energy which could lower yield.*


                 indoors, pruning can increase yield by focusing plant   energy into primary branches whose tops are in the effective range of   the light. In this scenario, removing lower branches that are underlit   and underperforming, reduce the amount of aggravation the grower   experiences at manicuring time.


                 arguably there is more yield from pruning, by focusing   growth hormones from the removed lower branches, into the upper   branches, making them produce fatter buds that if the plant energy were   distributed to a larger number of smaller branches..
                 if the plants are outdoors, there may be more merit to   the unpruned approach, but indoors, with limited lighting effective   distances, I think pruning to focus energy is important. 
                 in fact, now that you have an excellent bubbler design,  I  would focus on the cloning, vegging, and pruning system, so you  bring  the most health and vigor into the flip..


*> Is this horizontal grow something I should shoot for.*

                  if you like scrog, yes.. I don't like to train horizontal, cause it uses up time

                  I choose to veg plants to a candelabra shape, by  pruning  as described above.. then use bamboo stakes if needed to  support the 6  remaining branches on the plant. 

*> do you suggest cutting the lower three branch's because they do not get enough light from above to produce good bud...?*


                 yes, and also because the plant has growth hormones  that  have an antigravity feature, that is, the growth hormones flee the  base  of the plant, and concentrate on the physically highest point of  the  plant 


*> or do you NEED to cut off 3 to 7 percent of the canopy period to get good results and quality bud...?*
                 in my opinion, yes, you NEED to cut off 30%-50% of the canopy


*> will the low branch's always produce medium to low quality bud even if its not popcorn...?*
                 try it and let us know what you think.. Im telling you its a waste of time..


*> also, when you say to take the top 4'' off do you mean the single highest top*
*yes, here it is by the numbers*
                 when a plant has 7 leaf pairs at the main stem, 
                 1. remove the bottom 3 pairs, and their associated shoots/branches
                 2. cut off the top of the plant below 2 pairs and the   center shoot this leaves 4 places for strong vigorous shoots to grow   into a collumnar shape. The strategy is for top lighting.. but will also   work with side lighting
                 the benefit of this aggresive prune is to create a  sturdy stem, and strong colas.. no skimpy wimpy branches flopping  around..


*> when you say [leaf pairs] do you mean to say branchs*
                 yes
                  remove the bottom 3 pairs, and their associated shoots/branches
*> do you mean to REMOVE top of the center stalk,  AND  the remove tops of the first 2 sets of branchs below the center  stalk as  well causing them to all pair off and double*
                 no
                 the strategy I outline is to produce 4 strong branches,  untopped, and to remove everything else above and below them


*> Can I still remove some of the LARGE fan leaves that are shading some of the lower buds
* 
                  that is very controversial. I lean to the don't cut   anything off side of the debate, but there are times when a little leaf   pruning can help expose lower buds. Do a little experimenting, and   decide what you like.

                  Consider the pros and cons are that removing a fan  leaf  removes the sugar factory for the bud branch where that fan leaf   attaches. Chances are you will get a fatter cola if you leave the fan   leaf on, even if lower buds don't get bigger, which they might not have   anyway, since they are on skinnier branches and further away from the   light, and further away from the top of the plant. The top of the plant   has more growth hormones than lower branches..

                  I lean towards focusing energy into fewer bigger top   colas, instead of many smaller lower buds. Hence my preference for 4-6   main branches, candelabra style.

                  Since you are at day 26, I would not cut anything else   off.. but try to learn from how densely the plants are filled in, and   watch how much canopy depth it allows.

                  you obviously mastered the horizontal fill of your   canopy, now you get to fine tune the depth of it. Yield is not just   about square feet, its also about depth.

                  Depth has to do with pruning, and letting light get between the plants.

                  It is Not ideal to have wall to wall contact between  the plants, cause that only leaves the tops to get light..

                  not sure if you get my drift.. basically, overvegging, will create a canopy with less depth.

                  having too many side branches also creates canopy with less depth

                  ideally, separate colas that are 18" tall spaced 6" apart, is the design goal of candelabra style.

                  for bush style, which is what you have right now, it  is  better for the plants not to touch each other.. yours are touching  too  much.. but you will still be very happy with what you have rising  out of  the canopy of leaves.

                I think of it that way, the colas Rise above the canopy   of leaves. Hence back to your original question, should you cut leaves,   no. Not if they are feeding cola towers.


*> I wonder, would this candalabra approach yield more than the single?* 

                  it is not for yield, its to keep the canopy from being too tall.
                  topping is a way to reduce the stretch. On a plant  that  will normally stretch 3 feet, topping it will produce a 2 foot  stretch.

                  yield comes from having the colas as close together as   possible, while still getting light penetration, because yield comes   from not just the square feet, but additionally from the depth of   canopy, to produce maximum yield volume.

                using more plants puts the colas closer together, which is good up to a limit 



*>  How do I grow sea of green best, with high plant numbers and highest bud to leaf ratio possible?*

                by pruning the lower part of the plant off by week 2 of 12/12 so only the top shoot has a chance to bud 



*> Q: When you get really energetic grow tips, what is the best way to control this?*

                  topping. although, I don't top secondary branches..  unless  you are limited by height. Any topping after 12/12 starts can   potentially reduce yield.. try to do all topping before 12/12


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## P Jammers

So if you are reading this and are new to LED lights then  I hope to  shed some light on the subject based on what I have learned the last  four years from trial and error. I think most people think, well I'll  just do everything the same as I did with HID lighting and get the same  results or even better. While that may work and you obtain some really  killer better tasting smoke, I can assure you yield will go down if you  are not training your plants properly. 

While I have run, and still run some 6 footers from time to time, I like  to stick with 2 to 3 foot plants with 6 to 8 mains ONLY. From those  mains, skys the limit as to how many total tops you want to run, but you  will see lots of popcorn if it is allowed to remain on the plant and  get shaded.

Typically what I do unless it is a sassy kush stretcher, I like to flip,  and 10 days later remove any additional lower growth that has taken  place, and at that time I tie them to stakes. Some go sooner, and some a  little later. We are trying to maximize light penetration even more so  over HPS which I don't feel a lot of people do that run single cola  plants.

I don't have a ton of time today to get in to any of the other things  that are important, so today I leave you with pics of plants at 2 to 3  weeks in to flower to show you how we open it up.

Final results first 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





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Here is an example of a crazy sativa I ran.

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Here is a shot of trimming before the two weeks.

Before
View attachment 11.jpg


After staking
View attachment 12.jpg


Completion
View attachment 13.jpg


Next to having your LED at the right spot above you plants, this is the  single most important thing you can do to increase yield and pretty much  eliminate popcorn from the equation. [Well unless your growing some **  strain. 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




Of course, if you still grow with HID lighting, this will also improve  yield for those lights as well. I just want to make sure no one is going  in to this thinking they are gonna get the same yield they would on a  single cola plant, cause you won't using LED tech.

Questions, Comments, Concerns?


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## MR1

Thanks PJ for posting the info, should be very helpfull to many people.


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## Dman1234

Thanks PJ. Exactly what im looking for. Its great to know there is a place to come when i have questions or concerns and get experienced responses. Thanks again.


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## Locked

Good stuff my friend...thanks for breaking it down.  As more and more folks choose LED lighting they will need help transitioning their grow styles.    I know I am still working on getting it right.


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## NorCalHal

Hiya PJ. I see you use stakes also, here is some clips that I found from hydrofarm that I use instead of tiein' them. These clips rock. Big time saver.

http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8002


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## Locked

NorCalHal said:


> Hiya PJ. I see you use stakes also, here is some clips that I found from hydrofarm that I use instead of tiein' them. These clips rock. Big time saver.
> 
> http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8002



They look interesting. How exactly do you use those?  Do they clip to the stakes?    Thanks for sharing bro. I currently use Pipe cleaners. Can be a PITA sometimes.


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## NorCalHal

Ya HL, the just clip together around a stake, and they have a tab to unclip them, very easy to use. Very cheap too.


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## bwanabud

NorCalHal said:


> Hiya PJ. I see you use stakes also, here is some clips that I found from hydrofarm that I use instead of tiein' them. These clips rock. Big time saver.
> 
> http://www.hydrofarm.com/product.php?itemid=8002



I've been using these for a few years now, they're great for controlling the plants growth spurts...fast shooters during the stretch. I SCROG and cage all of my plants, the clips work great on bamboo stick or scrog netting. I also twist a 12" piece of garden wire onto each clip, and pull the top down...to allow the canopy to catch up in late stretch times.

I could post up some pics if needed.


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## P Jammers

Orchid clips also work very well.
http://www.tindaraorchids.com/stakes_clips.htm


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## bwanabud

P Jammers said:


> Orchid clips also work very well.
> http://www.tindaraorchids.com/stakes_clips.htm



I like those too, may have to try some...appreciate the info


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## The Hemp Goddess

I kind of like this kind of clip:  [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Luster-Leaf-Rapiclip-Garden-Tomato/dp/B000ZIKD9U/ref=sr_1_9?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1411840919&sr=1-9&keywords=rapiclip[/ame]

As a side note, the clips that NCH linked can be found at Amazon cheaper.


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## bwanabud

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I kind of like this kind of clip:  http://www.amazon.com/dp/B000ZIKD9U/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> As a side note, the clips that NCH linked can be found at Amazon cheaper.



Yes THG, I got mine off of Amazon....I think in 100 count bags, may have been 50... I have a lot of them, they are very versatile.


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## NorCalHal

I really like those clips PJ, looks to be a little easier to take off. I use probably close to 5-600 per room, so the cost is a little high, but I think I will try them. I wish they were another color, it sucks when you got to cut the plant and have 1-2 clips you have missed! Those might blend in too much for me.
I am sure you can find those clips a lot cheaper then Hydrofarms retail price, I am spoiled and pay next to nothing for those clips.
All of the above sure beat twisty tie's!


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## Locked

Yeah I got a bag of 100 of those twine clips on amazon for 1.99 and shipping was more than twice as much as the clips. 4.99 for shipping.   Will see how well they work.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Twine-Clips-Mega-25mm-Terracotta/dp/B003XEH17U/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1411921400&sr=8-1&keywords=Twine+Clips+Mega+25mm+Terracotta%2C+Pack+of+100[/ame]


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## Dman1234

ok A question has popped up, with hid I always used the back of the hand metheod to set the light the correct distance from the plant tops, does this still apply? or is there an ideal sweet spot with LED? im up and running with cabinet holding at 75F and i could get this light real close to plant tops if thats what im after.


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## Locked

No you don't want the unit right down on top of them like HO T5's.  I think it's like 18 inches you want to shoot for.


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## Dman1234

Thanks HL


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## Locked

Dman, found this on their website:

Tips:

Indoor use only 
Not intended to get wet, avoid water damage by keep all drip emitters, hoses, misters away from the LED light housing 
Recommended height above plant is 12-36 inches depending on different wattage of the light


I would think you need some distance to get the right mix of colors.  The TopLed unit is a reflector not a lens unit but I would still think some distance would be needed.   I know with the units that use Lens you have to get the distance right to get the right mix.


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## Dman1234

Hamster Lewis said:


> Dman, found this on their website:
> 
> Tips:
> 
> Indoor use only
> Not intended to get wet, avoid water damage by keep all drip emitters, hoses, misters away from the LED light housing
> Recommended height above plant is 12-36 inches depending on different wattage of the light
> 
> 
> I would think you need some distance to get the right mix of colors.  The TopLed unit is a reflector not a lens unit but I would still think some distance would be needed.   I know with the units that use Lens you have to get the distance right to get the right mix.


 

Good info, Thanks, I do remember reading that at some point but i had totally forgot. thanks again.


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## Rosebud

Mine are about 14 inches from the top of the plants.


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## yooper420

Keep my LED`s no closer then 12". Try to keep them around 16"-18".


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## Joe420Camel

.


I try for 12-14" off the "majority" of the canopy so some tops may get (no closer than) 10"



---


any thoughts, input or advice on my current grow (first two pics) would be greatly appreciated (and heeded)  

300w of Hydro Grow LED in a  20" x 25" x 5'8" box/cabinet

this is my first try at a non-SOG plant (last two pics)




:farm:<---intraining 

View attachment PICT0915a.jpg


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View attachment PICT0877a.jpg


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## P Jammers

It's looking good if you are only wanting the tops. I prefer to stick to the 6 to 8 tops and go SOG over that may tops. Even the popcorn will be less than popcorn and I like a more open canopy if I can get it and flower top to bottom.

I can also at times flip clones at 14 days rooted that way and keep them short. Overall grow times way shorter with zero wasted growth.

Just curious why you choose to do less plants more veg over the more plants zero veg to speak of?

In any event, your plants look super healthy, so you are for sure doing a good job. 

These tips are certainly not the rule on every single plant every strain. Just some basic tips to increase yield's on most...

Best of luck with the tech. It's here to stay and right around the corner, HID's won't be able to keep up at all.


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## Joe420Camel

P Jammers said:


> It's looking good if you are only wanting the tops. I prefer to stick to the 6 to 8 tops and go SOG over that may tops. Even the popcorn will be less than popcorn and I like a more open canopy if I can get it and flower top to bottom.



would you suggest to remove the node below the main on each stem?

this plant was flipped yesterday 

from the top-shot, you can match-up pairs of tops; main and the node below. 
I only have 5 main stems. 
The "bottom" stem topping paired off so nicely, I left them both thus 6 pairs of tops... 

{mental note: 6 pairs = 12 tops... NOT 6-8 like the man just said.}



P Jammers said:


> I can also at times flip clones at 14 days rooted that way and keep them short. Overall grow times way shorter with zero wasted growth.
> 
> 
> *Just curious why you choose to do less plants more veg over the more plants zero veg to speak of?*



my first (of 3.5 ever) grow was some bag-seeds. I let them grow till they showed sex in VEG so that's about what I replicated with the next two FEM seeds. This is the first clone (4th plant ever) I've ever taken to flower. 


part of it is also the LEGAL situation. I live in a decriminalized but NON-Medical state. Until I don't have to hide in my basement like a 16 year old kid in my par... sorry... I'm dancing around the felony line etc etc. If I had to stand before a judge (before my fine state/country pulls its head out of its...) I would be able to say that I had ONE friggen' plant, gimme' a break!




P Jammers said:


> In any event, your plants look super healthy, so you are for sure doing a good job.


/bow :48:



P Jammers said:


> Best of luck with the tech. It's here to stay and right around the corner, HID's won't be able to keep up at all.


keep me in the loop , I'll "guinea pig" anything you suggest


:farm:<---intraining


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## Dman1234

Hey PJ, could you make a suggestion for a small VEG only LED? I am looking for something that will cover a 2x2 area for seedlings and clones only. any suggestion would be great.


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## P Jammers

Dman1234 said:


> Hey PJ, could you make a suggestion for a small VEG only LED? I am looking for something that will cover a 2x2 area for seedlings and clones only. any suggestion would be great.


http://www.topledgrowlight.com/reflector-led-grow-light-96x3w.html#.VD80GvnF-So


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## Joe420Camel

P Jammers said:


> http://www.topledgrowlight.com/reflector-led-grow-light-96x3w.html#.VD80GvnF-So




The above light in use (24/7)
Cloned and Vegged the plant in the other pictures.


-----------

2-sided grow cabinet: flower full height, Veg has fans/pumps/filters under a shelf

-----------


Well, I took her down to 5 "arms" with only a "finger and thumb" left...

Take the "thumb" too? 
(flipped 10/10/14)



:farm:<--intraining 

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View attachment PICT0926a.jpg


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## Dman1234

thanks guys, i bought my big light there, dont know how i missed this one. Thanks again.


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## Dman1234

Question, I will only be using this light for early Veg, because it has a grow and bloom switch and I will only be using the grow I am buying led's that will never be used. does anyone sell a veg only light without going custom built?


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## MR1

Or you could use both grow and bloom switches on and get full spectrum.


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## P Jammers

Dman1234 said:


> Question, I will only be using this light for early Veg, because it has a grow and bloom switch and I will only be using the grow I am buying led's that will never be used. does anyone sell a veg only light without going custom built?





MR1 said:


> Or you could use both grow and bloom switches on and get full spectrum.


What he said. 

I built some custom veg only lights several years ago, but I no longer deal with that company.

BlackStar/Gotham Hydro makes a veg only light, but because everyone I know has had them fail I would go with the light posted above.

There are for sure better lights, but not at that price point.


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## Dman1234

ok full spectrum, should i also be doing that with my bigger light ? Im currently vegging with it and im only using the grow switch, i have a lot too learn with this new tech.


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## P Jammers

Dman1234 said:


> ok full spectrum, should i also be doing that with my bigger light ? Im currently vegging with it and im only using the grow switch, i have a lot too learn with this new tech.


That will depend on your plant. Most will not stretch under full spectrum while others will with just veg. Try it both ways and see how your plants react.


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## Dman1234

well i must have two that don't stretch with just the grow,  the first 4 nodes are so tight i could use a little stretch to start training, very impressed with the light so far.

So would it make sense to stick with just grow, and add the bloom the last few weeks of veg and continue full spectrum 12-12 through the end of flower? thanks for the info.


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## P Jammers

Dman1234 said:


> well i must have two that don't stretch with just the grow,  the first 4 nodes are so tight i could use a little stretch to start training, very impressed with the light so far.
> 
> So would it make sense to stick with just grow, and add the bloom the last few weeks of veg and continue full spectrum 12-12 through the end of flower? thanks for the info.


Sorry missed your post. The only thing I would do different than what you normally did  in the past is lesson the strength of the food a bit by say 20% or so. Keep your food mixes the same in terms of when, and if you used a "Transition" nute program in the past stay the course.

I run hydro, so I am either running straight veg food, or straight flower food and plants change the day they are flipped. The combination of the two mixing together for me is a transition sort of.


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## Dman1234

Thanks PJ but i was referring to the lights grow/bloom switches.

as  for the nutes i found out already that i need to cut back on nutes, burnt them pretty good but they recovered nicely.


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## Dr. Green Fang

That light you posted for just under 100, PJ... it's been haunting my thoughts since you posted it! 

I think I need to get it.


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## P Jammers

Fine if you're planning to just veg some plants, but it's not going to do a whole lot in flower


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## Dr. Green Fang

Veg only :aok:


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## Dr. Green Fang

MR1 showed me a neat light that seemed like a "better bang for the buck" in my grow journal, what are your thoughts on this light PJ? Directly comparable to the one you linked or stronger / weaker? 

http://www.mars-hydro.com/led-grow-light-100-3w.html


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## P Jammers

Dr. Green Fang said:


> MR1 showed me a neat light that seemed like a "better bang for the buck" in my grow journal, what are your thoughts on this light PJ? Directly comparable to the one you linked or stronger / weaker?
> 
> http://www.mars-hydro.com/led-grow-light-100-3w.html



If you want a light that is basically set up to bloom with no bloom/veg switch go with MR1's light. If you want a light designed to veg go with the one I posted.

My recommendations are based on years of experience, not opinions based on 1 or 2 grows with the tech.

Both lights will grow plants, but the one I linked you to is for what you asked.

Personally, I use 2 lights over a 4x2 and use about 180 watts total and use 2 bands only.


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## Dr. Green Fang

Oh hey thanks.. this is why I came here, PJ. For direct thoughts from you about it. I am looking to veg only with them, cover as much space as I can with it and have very healthy (no stretching) veg setup. 

Thanks PJ :aok:


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## Joe420Camel

.


UpDate to plant from post 28



:farm:<--intraining 

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## meiniye

it seems good


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## P Jammers

Saw a couple people talking LED's only flower down about 12", so thought I'd bump this thread since I flowered out a 6 foot plant top to bottom and have instructions here on how to.

If LED's only flowered down 12" I  would have stopped using them after the first time i used them. It's just not true with good LED's.

Don't believe the hype.

View attachment user61_pic2472_1383957706.jpg

5 foot plant as an example.


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## sopappy

P Jammers said:


> *Lucas on Pruning
> 
> **I have been using these techniques for years, and  find they work really well on plants from seed, and I still remove most  of the lower branches on cuts. Figured I'd share this info for anyone  who does not practice pruning, or understand why it is we do it.
> 
> PJ
> *
> 
> 
> 
> *> How do you feel about pruning*
> 
> I am strongly in favor of pruning,  and think PistilWhipt deserves great respect for popularizing the  concept with our community.
> 
> 
> 5-6oz from 250w is excellent, and would probably be of lower quality and lower quantity without pruning.
> 
> 
> My rules of thumb on pruning are as follows.
> 
> snipped for clarity




Boy, did I pick the wrong guy to poke. 
THIS is exactly what I was looking for, thanks kindly P Jammers


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## P Jammers

sopappy said:


> Boy, did I pick the wrong guy to poke.
> THIS is exactly what I was looking for, thanks kindly P Jammers


Water under the bridge.

Hope this info helps.
:48:


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## Rosebud

That was me that said that, I thought you told me that PJ. So sorry I am spreading falsehoods.


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## P Jammers

Rosebud said:


> That was me that said that, I thought you told me that PJ. So sorry I am spreading falsehoods.



Totally clueless as to what you're talking about TBH.
Said what?


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## Rosebud

P Jammers said:


> Saw a couple people talking LED's only flower down about 12", so thought I'd bump this thread since I flowered out a 6 foot plant top to bottom and have instructions here on how to.
> 
> If LED's only flowered down 12" I  would have stopped using them after the first time i used them. It's just not true with good LED's.
> 
> Don't believe the hype.
> 
> View attachment 223448
> 
> 5 foot plant as an example.




This is what i was talking about, sorry about that.


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## P Jammers

Rosebud said:


> This is what i was talking about, sorry about that.









I saw it posted like three times, but not by you. Tisk Tisk


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## zem

cool, so how tall of a canopy does a LED grower need to aim for? I don't think it is 6 ft right? i would need to build a new ceiling :laugh:


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## P Jammers

zem said:


> cool, so how tall of a canopy does a LED grower need to aim for? I don't think it is 6 ft right? i would need to build a new ceiling :laugh:



That's going to totally depend on ones style of growing. I see people doing anywhere from 2 to 4 foot plants. I also see people screen out large areas with low plant numbers and do well. 

The key is knowing how far down said LED fixture will get in to the plant. Taller the plant, less dense the canopy can be so plant will need to be opened up.


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## buzzyman32

Hello all. Saw your thread and figured I'd chime in. I've been growing outdoors for years and now I'm on my first grow inside. I do take alot of foliage off my plants and train them the way I want them to grow . It's working so far insode,just don't have more than a couple months for veg and then bloom. I'm bout through the veg stage now. And I'm using leds and one 400 watt hps . Here's a couple pics. First ones an outside grow . My style of growing I named ground pounding 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	






















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## Budlight

Joe420Camel said:


> .
> 
> 
> UpDate to plant from post 28
> 
> 
> 
> :farm:<--intraining



 Wow Joe those girls are looking crazy :48:


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