# phytochrome manipulation



## gottaloveplasma (Sep 5, 2015)

Anyone here familiar with phytochrome manipulation.  Supposedly far red light can allow you +2 hours lights on and 10% more dli without messing up flowering so you get more weight out of plants.  Anyone familiar with this would enjoy peoples input and knowledge on this.  Especially Umbra if he's got anything on this.


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## WeedHopper (Sep 5, 2015)

PJ could chime in on this

http://hortsci.ashspublications.org/content/44/2/231.full

Also Found this

Phytochrome is a photoreceptor, a pigment that plants, and some bacteria and fungi, use to detect light. It is sensitive to light in the red and far-red region of the visible spectrum. Many flowering plants use it to regulate the time of flowering based on the length of day and night (photoperiodism) and to set circadian rhythms. It also regulates other responses including the germination of seeds (photoblasty), elongation of seedlings, the size, shape and number of leaves, the synthesis of chlorophyll, and the straightening of the epicotyl or hypocotyl hook of dicot seedlings. It is found in the leaves of most plants.

Biochemically, phytochrome is a protein with a bilin chromophore.

Phytochrome has been found in most plants including all higher plants; very similar molecules have been found in several bacteria. A fragment of a bacterial phytochrome now has a solved three-dimensional protein structure.

Other plant photoreceptors include cryptochromes, phototropins, and UVR8, which are sensitive to light in the blue and ultra-violet regions of the spectrum.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 5, 2015)

So there is pr and prf. Not sure what they are but the 5minutes of the far red can change one to the other making the plant think the night was actually longer.  It is also called Emmerson Effect.  These red lights I see range from 50-150$ and I'm interested in it myself. Seems cool.  Also there are things blues do and can also be triggered with a large pulse or perhaps few minutes of use.


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## umbra (Sep 5, 2015)

yes I have played with all of these. I started using HeNe lasers at 632nm, but it wasn't far enough in the spectrum, so I used Nd:YAG at 1064nm ( near IR ). For the blue pulse I used the Nd:YAG 3rd harmonic at 355 nm. It doesn't make enough difference to get too excited about. While all of this makes for interesting reading, it doesn't make a poor grower into a good 1. It doesn't take a genetically inferior strain and make it double its output. The whole point to growing is to give the plant everything it needs, the other types of manipulation that you are talking about are more for going beyond genetic barriers and imo are not worth the extra work. I have way too many plants to deal with...because a good grow keeps me so busy I don't have time to play with it anymore.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 5, 2015)

Thanks umbra was enough for me to loose interest.  If you would have come out and said yes you can use far red for 5mins at lights out and this will allow you to flower 2 more hours a day id of been Interested.  I just came across this and thought I see if anyone has researched or had experience with this.  It still seems cool but out of my league&#55357;&#56833;


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## umbra (Sep 5, 2015)

If there was any value in it, NorCalHal or Aluminum Monster would be doing it. There are all kinds of ways to manipulate plants, most are not specific to cannabis, but may or may not work. For most commercial growers, if there is not a direct cause and effect relationship that translates into a bigger yield, a shorter flowering time, or frostier buds, then you will not see them using it.
1 of the best things to learn is how to open the stomata to increase the plants ability to increase CO2 intake.


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## Locked (Sep 5, 2015)

I love your enthusiasm glp, but you have to learn to walk before you can run.  I think you will get a much better reward from getting the basics dialed in *First*.  There will be time for cutting edge lights, nutrients, and plant manipulation techniques later.  I see way too many growers trying to do things like add CO2 before they even have the basic skills down. jmo


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 5, 2015)

Yea basically vpd to keep stomata open correct?


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 5, 2015)

I agree with you guys 100%.  I'm just insatiable reader.  Thank you Umbra.  I am sure it will take a minute to get house ac RH leaf temp and tent temp, fan speed etc In balance.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 5, 2015)

Ps proud new owner of bluelab ppm pen and all the solutions for ph and ppm probes.  Now I got both.  Gathering all the tools I want &#55357;&#56842;.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 6, 2015)

That is one of my problem with your nute line.....if it is organic, why do you need to pH it?


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 6, 2015)

With all due respect I don't care.  Its cleanest line out there.  If you don't like it I don't give a crap.  Quit trolling me. If you want to know anything about ask the owner.  They have contact information.  Obviously I'm shity middleman for information, go get it from the horses mouth.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 6, 2015)

Anyone else interests in the line here is a video on it.

Base Nutrients
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HZg1KaWwIfs

Additives
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_BjbW2KPbTw


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## Sweetmansticky (Sep 6, 2015)

Sounds like every other promo video . Better, bigger ,more ,stronger ,healthier. There is no magic nute line. So stop focussing on any thing that a sales person / sales pitch video says and listen to the folks round here trying to offer you help. 

K.I.S.S
Keep it simple   stupid 

Just my .02 .I'm outty.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 6, 2015)

I don't care about bigger better etc.  Its a clean nutrient line.  Period I'd rather not use salts and I like idea of highly active soil life.


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## Rosebud (Sep 6, 2015)

If you want an active soil life you don't need a product line. Maybe you outta take a look at some organic growers journals.  most good ones don't use product lines... I don't know one that ph's either... no fancy gadgets... hmmmmmmmmm


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 6, 2015)

Well like I said last grow with this ****.  If it works for me awesome.  If not ill be doing just labs, ewc tea, fpe, sst  etc.


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## Locked (Sep 6, 2015)

gottaloveplasma said:


> I don't care about bigger better etc.  Its a clean nutrient line.  Period I'd rather not use salts and I like idea of highly active soil life.



Highly active soil life wouldn't require you to PH anything if it was truly Organic.


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## pcduck (Sep 6, 2015)

You forgot AEM.

How do you know it's a clean line? Because they told you it was?

Ocean salt/water contains over 80000 different microbes.

I am beginning to think you like failure. We all have tried to help you complete a successful grow, but you just do not want to heed our advice. Which is ok, as I will still be sitting back smoking big buds, while you continue to fail. Your failures and posts are becoming quite amusing.:aok::bong:


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 6, 2015)

Well,  everyone using this line is using lots of ewc teas labs etc.  Also slf-100 it is 4 unique bacteria to the industry.  All good.  I am going to try the line again.  If not good this go ill be using the buildasoil.com approach.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 6, 2015)

Agree to disagree.  Hopefully I can prove you all wrong.  Objectively looking at situation looks like cards are stacked against me.


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## WeedHopper (Sep 7, 2015)

All That red is hurting my eyes. Lol
Honestly,,i dont understand why your even here. You dont take any instruction,,and have none to give.
Your kinda like a Hemorrhoid, ,,just a big pain in the asssss.


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## Rosebud (Sep 7, 2015)

:yeahthat:


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## yarddog (Sep 7, 2015)

Dang weedhopper.  Ha-ha.  I usually refrain from negative talk here.  
When I joined, I didn't even know how to tell a male from a female cannabis plant.  I asked, received and studied the advice that was given to me from you all. 
Just because it was told to me doesn't mean I did it.  I took the advice and gathered my own decision. Sometimes if it just didn't feel right, I wouldn't do it ya'lls way.  
But I listened. And I've learned much.  With so much left to learn.  
I like quote's.  So here's another. 
" a  wise man learns from the mistakes of others". 

Plasma, my advice for you. 

Stop being bullheaded.  You need to be humble.  You don't know very much at all about growing mj.  That's perfectly OK. To be expected with your experience level.  
What you should be doing is gathering the advice from others and looking at it all.  Take the average and run with it.  The majority will rarely be wrong.  These people here have nothing to gain with your success or failure.  Why would they tell you wrong?   Your salesman on the other hand, they have everything to gain trying to sell you more stuff. 
Unless you show a willingness to listen to advice, I'm out of your threads.  Not that I have much to offer myself, but non the less, I am done.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 7, 2015)

I've got over 8 boxes of free samples.  Just from that nutrient company.  I've spent less than 100$ on additives.  I'm trying this stuff again.  I agree about majority usually being right.  Made joke about it ^^^.  I'm trying again.  I don't understand that I say I know why I screwed up plants. Wasn't lines fault.  People forget that.  Also in another group im in there are hundreds of people that love and believe in the line.  I've got people to help w line also.


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## WeedHopper (Sep 7, 2015)

I know ppl who like Lines,,,sure messes up yur nose though. Never forget that girl on Cheech and Chong who was snorting lines of Ajax,,,, :rofl:

You are a good or PERSISTANT salesmen.  Me thinks you found your calling.


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 7, 2015)

I'm not selling ****.  I'm just saying I am trying it again.  You guys are trying to sell me on ff.  When I already got something.  What nutes do you use weed.


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## umbra (Sep 7, 2015)

LOL WH is an organic grower, he doesn't use nutes...he starts with a compost pile. When I was in Barcelona at Spannabis, I partied with Remo and Big Mike from AN. They have been sending me free stuff for a couple of years trying to get me to endorse them. They are still waiting. While AN products work, most can be reversed engineered for a fraction of the cost. What makes the most sense, is understanding how plants feed and then you don't need nutes.


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## Rosebud (Sep 7, 2015)

Thank you Umbra, what a concept!


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## WeedHopper (Sep 7, 2015)

Thank You Umbra,,,I am an Organic Gardner for sure,,and I don't do lines anymore. LOL
When I grow DWC I use Dutch Master Grow A&B and Bloom A&B. They worked for me and was fairly cheap. Would I recommend them,,nope. I will tell you they worked for me,,but so would probably most of the other Ferts my friends here on MP use. NONE OF THEM will be worth a **** if you cant grow.
You are sold on this Line Of Ferts,,not sure why,,but thats cool. Its your choice my friend,,use what ya want. But I will say this,,,when you ask a question,,it might be a good idea to SOMETIMES ,,,,I know this is hard for ya Little Brother,,, but ya might pay attention to the answer and ya might even try what PPL are telling you. Heaven forbid they are right,,and not the Salesman ya have taken on for a Mentor.
Sometimes I think you just like to argue and piss PPL off,,,hence all the RED.
I have a Son like you,,he will argue with a fence post and think hes right. The fence post by the way has never bailed his *** out of trouble,,,just his ******* Dad.. LOL


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## gottaloveplasma (Sep 8, 2015)

I here that.  I want to be there.  Id like to do strait homemade ****.  I'm not there yet.  Need more space and knowledge.  But for mow I got lots of stuff plan on using.  I'm sure hoping this round goes better.  In my defense... Last year was ok learned **** loads just not happy with 24z for an outdoor season.  Indoor didn't fair well.  But with all the problems I had I still pulled very smooth smoke.  Burned awesome and very clean.  I've had other buds from this line incredible.  I see many people that are happy with it.  I'm very interested in doing my own organic ****.  I think it would be kick *** cool.  Weedhopper you think the buildasoil is a good base for organic bottle less nutes?  I like idea of seed sprout teas.  Ferments and labs.  I do need a compost pile.  No where to do it though.  I'm wanting to try the buildasoil next go.  Is this something that can be done indoors?  How much space do you need?  Can one do this on a few shelves.  Keep supplies and minerals and such and all the jars?  I don't mind taking nature hikes and grabbing up leafs and rotting limbs but what do I do with it after that.  I don't think I have the room for it.


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