# plants are in trouble



## oahno (Mar 21, 2011)

i'm about 2 months from seed in 7 gallons of coco.  everything was going great until i underwatered once and they turned yellow overnight.  i tried to rectify this by giving them straight ph'd water until i saw 1/4 or so runoff but then they got even worse with heavy signs of overwatering.  now its 3 days after i watered them the pots are still painfully heavy to lift and all the new growth is yellow as well (probably because i gave them straight water).  not to mention they are not bouncing back from the drooping.  what should i do am i just screwed at this point.  how long will it take for them to recover if they recover at all.


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## AluminumMonster (Mar 22, 2011)

A few questions and maybe i can help.

1- is your medium straight coco?
2- what are you ph'ing your water too?
3- what was the runoff ph?
4- what kind of water? ie. distilled, tap, r/o?
5- what are yor temps/ and r/h at?

And if you have a pic that would help too.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Mar 22, 2011)

:bump:  for answers

:48:


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## oahno (Mar 22, 2011)

ph is 5.8 runoff is closer to 6.5 or 7 because its bcuzz coco and its well buffered.  using tap  that is 30 ppm, aerated off the chlorine.  was using ro but had to use way too much ph up to get it into range. maybe there's something horrible in the tap water but at 30 ppm i dunno.  this was the first time i used tap.  the runoff was 700 or so the same ppm i fed them with 5 days before they went bone dry.  they are not fully rooted in the 7 gallons yet they were only transplanted 2-3 weeks ago so they take a while to dry out.

temps are great now 70-75.  keeping humidity below 60 with a dehumidifier but with 800 cfm constantly pulling out i can't get it much lower at the moment.

they had the problem the night it got to 85+ with 75% humidity and they were basically bone dry.  they started to drop their lower leaves and yellowed up really quick.  then when i hit them with the ph'd water to rectify the situation i severely overwatered them obviously.

the main thing that concerns me is the new growth looks awful.


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## oahno (Mar 22, 2011)

pics

should i foliar feed them or something?  even the plants that sustained the overwater pretty well have really bad new growth (the 2nd pic).  it's like they are getting zero nutrients (i guess they aren't since i gave them none in the overwater).


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## AluminumMonster (Mar 22, 2011)

IMO they do look a little over watered, but i think there is an underlying issue with the ph as well. I've been doing a lot of reading on coco lately and every where i look they say to keep the ph down around 6. I would let them dry out a little and water with a lite nutrient dose and try ph'ing it around 5. Also, you may want to try distilled water.


Oh, i almost forgot, they are deffinitely salvagable.


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## Locked (Mar 22, 2011)

Was this the type of coco that needs to be rinsed real good to get the salt out? If so did you rinse it real good? I don't use coco but I agree it looks like there is at least one underlying issue here.


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## oahno (Mar 22, 2011)

I really don't think the ph is an issue but I will knock it down to 5.5 next time.  I will let them dry out another day or two and hit them with 4 ml of a & b aqua flakes and nothing else.  in my experience and many others bcuzz coco doesn't need to be rinsed.  as I said they were fine in it for 2 months i doubt this issue would pop up overnight.


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## Locked (Mar 22, 2011)

Well they certainly look a bit underfed....not sure though if that is a ph lockout thing or if they need more nutes.


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## PencilHead (Mar 22, 2011)

You can't over-water with coco or coco mixes with one watering--unless you left them sitting in that 25% run-off.  If it's a white strain, you might wanna do some Ca/Mg supplementing in that coco, too.  

Hammie, if the coco is a mix or a bale from the grow shop, it's more than likely been rinsed.  If it's from somewhere not MJ specific, it's could be salty and need washing.


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## oahno (Mar 22, 2011)

you absolutely 100% can overwater in coco.  have you ever grown in 7 gallons of coco before? i don't mean to argue but it's pretty obvious to me and many others.  i'm not saying this is 100% of my problem at all but it is what caused the classic overwater droop i'm almost positive.

if you water too much in coco your plants will not grow, its best to let them dry out 80%.

you need to rinse basically every single brand other than b'cuzz & canna.  and then you need to charge it (sit in some base nutes + calmag) for at least 2 weeks.  again, other than b'cuzz & canna since they do all of this for you already.

but as i said i don't want to switch subjects and I do appreciate any and all help.


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## PencilHead (Mar 23, 2011)

Nope, never grew in 7 gallon containers--I grow in 18 gallon chum buckets.  Please read the qualifying portion of that statement: "You can't over-water with coco or coco mixes with *one watering*"  I stand by that statement for most any MJ specific media.  If one-time watering were posible then the flushers among us would have a logistical problem, wouldn't they?  And, a big factor in coco use is the ability of the roots to continue to breath when wet--that's why it's used it in big container apps.  How about Organicare Pure Earth?  Should I have been washing that for the last year-and-a-half even if I've been doing just fine with it outta the bag?  You're tossing out broad generallities, bro.  And, when the smoke clears, I'll bet you a dollar two ninety-eight that your problem ain't over-watering.  JM outrageous O.  Good luck and peace either way.




			
				oahno said:
			
		

> you absolutely 100% can overwater in coco. have you ever grown in 7 gallons of coco before? i don't mean to argue but it's pretty obvious to me and many others. i'm not saying this is 100% of my problem at all but it is what caused the classic overwater droop i'm almost positive.
> 
> if you water too much in coco your plants will not grow, its best to let them dry out 80%.
> 
> ...


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## AluminumMonster (Mar 23, 2011)

Oahno, pencilhead has been at this a lot longer than me and shown some sick grows on here as well. If it were me i would take his advice.


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## oahno (Mar 23, 2011)

then how does this problem happen overnight from one watering of nothing but 5.8 ph'd tap water?   as I said for 2 months I had no problems... 

I hear a lot of attacks and what my problem isn't but nothing to do to fix it....

also again a different subject but the organicare isn't 100% coco as I am using.  I am referring to straight coco bails or loose when I talk about the flushing.  your organicare has nutrients premixed with it so it is charged already and i'm guessing they flush the portion of the soil that is coco.  i would never flush a pre-nuted mix.


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## nouvellechef (Mar 23, 2011)

Yep. You need to look beyond overwatering. Something is up. I cant say what for sure, only time will tell. GL


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## oahno (Mar 23, 2011)

ok, i will troubleshoot a few different ways on a couple of plants.  also get a good idea of the runoff even though i really hate to water them to runoff again so soon.  if anyone has any ideas to try beyond whats already been said i'm willing to try anything at this point.


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## nouvellechef (Mar 23, 2011)

oahno said:
			
		

> ok, i will troubleshoot a few different ways on a couple of plants.  also get a good idea of the runoff even though i really hate to water them to runoff again so soon.  if anyone has any ideas to try beyond whats already been said i'm willing to try anything at this point.



Dont worry about run off. Only what goes in. You should be recycling your medium. It will get better and more stable over time. GL


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## Locked (Mar 23, 2011)

The reason I don't check my runoff is because it can lead to more problems then answers IMO....I feed and water with everything ph'd to 6.5 for soil...Not sure what the number is for coco. When you start checking ph of run off and then start adding nutes or water at different ph's to try and *Fix* what is wrong that is when the problems seem to start. JMO


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## oahno (Mar 23, 2011)

definitely agree with that, just trying to figure things out.


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## oahno (Mar 25, 2011)

so i hit them with 4 ml each of house & garden aqua flakes a & b & 2 ml each of camg+ from general organics.  i waited until they dried out a bit.  ph'd to 5.6 but this took a ton of ph up.  like 2-3 ml a gallon.  the signs of overwater are pretty much gone.  now all of the leaves are turning yellow and dieing as quick as possible, as if someone hit them with pesticides or something.  they are looking worse than ever and within 24 hours from the last water.  now i'm afraid they are just going to die within a week.  i have no idea what to do, i am very very discouraged and about to just say **** it all to be honest.  what a nightmare.


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## Locked (Mar 25, 2011)

oahno said:
			
		

> so i hit them with 4 ml each of house & garden aqua flakes a & b & 2 ml each of camg+ from general organics.  i waited until they dried out a bit.  ph'd to 5.6 but this took a ton of ph up.  like 2-3 ml a gallon.  the signs of overwater are pretty much gone.  now all of the leaves are turning yellow and dieing as quick as possible, as if someone hit them with pesticides or something.  they are looking worse than ever and within 24 hours from the last water.  now i'm afraid they are just going to die within a week.  i have no idea what to do, i am very very discouraged and about to just say **** it all to be honest.  what a nightmare.



Ah man don't give up....what is your grow experience? I grow in soil with GH floranova 3 part nutes. Coco interests me but I have stayed away because it seems like it wld be harder then what I do now. It gives great results when dialed in but I worry about it being more of a hassle. Have you grown in coco before?


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## oahno (Mar 25, 2011)

thats the thing.  the best crop i've done was in straight coco with 2-part gh nutes ph'd to 5.5 everytime.  i'm pretty experienced with growing and i'm just all in on the coco thing right now or i'd just put them in soil.  the most discouraging thing is that they were looking so good for 2 months all the way from seed and now all of my hard work is going down the tubes within 1 week.  and it seems like there is nothing i can do to stop it.

thanks for the kind words i will do my best.  gonna hit them with nothing but 5 ml per gallon of pbp grow and no ph adjustment next time, not much else i can do but troubleshoot.  i'm thinking the ph down and ph up i used quite a bit of might have caused these problems but obviously i don't know **** so who knows.


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## Locked (Mar 25, 2011)

oahno said:
			
		

> thats the thing.  the best crop i've done was in straight coco with 2-part gh nutes ph'd to 5.5 everytime.  i'm pretty experienced with growing and i'm just all in on the coco thing right now or i'd just put them in soil.  the most discouraging thing is that they were looking so good for 2 months all the way from seed and now all of my hard work is going down the tubes within 1 week.  and it seems like there is nothing i can do to stop it.
> 
> thanks for the kind words i will do my best.  gonna hit them with nothing but 5 ml per gallon of pbp grow and no ph adjustment next time, not much else i can do but troubleshoot.  i'm thinking the ph down and ph up i used quite a bit of might have caused these problems but obviously i don't know **** so who knows.



Okay so you have used it before...good to know. Can you put up a cpl pics? Maybe we can still help you save them.


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## oahno (Mar 25, 2011)

good luck, they seem to be getting worse by the hour, and since i just fed them yesterday i don't dare feed them again today.  i'm seriously just fucked i think.


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## oahno (Mar 25, 2011)

i have all the pure blend stuff and all the aqua flakes stuff as well as camg+ from general organics.  what should i do, are there any coco experts on here at all.

i tested a bit of runoff just a handful of coco off the top it was 6.9-7.0 ph and around 200 ppm on all 3.  as i said i hit them with about 550 ppm just 24 hours ago but the ppm runoff number could be skewed because i just grabbed it off the top and most of it was probably dryish by now.


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