# Beginner question i think on to germinate or not



## Gooch (Aug 19, 2015)

I bought my seeds from crop king, I am excited to grow them in a ebb and flow hydro system. I have picked up rock wool as a starter medium for the seedlings. I have germinated many seeds in practicing(taking bag seeds to root and beyond) using the techniques required by crop kings to offer their guarantee which is soaking it in water then moving it to plain white paper towel, I have even done it without soaking them in a glass of water and just using the paper towel, I have a 99% start rate, 0% finish rate:vap_smiley:
My problem is this... everywhere i read and or watch people just put seeds in the rockwool and let it all happen in their, it said 5-7 days which is a freaking lifetime from soaking/paper towels which can take 2-3 days. Now in all fairness the straight into medium and let it happen calls for warm, light and humidity, where as my tried and true method calls for warm dark humid.

I think one solution might be to soak it and once the tap root pops drop it in the rockwool covered with light.
Or 
complete the full process ie.. cup of water and paper towl then into rockwool when taproot is 1/2-1" with light(floros)
My concern with the second method is whether it will root properly but that also could matter where the light is....

AHHHH
More testing about to begin on the last of my test seeds


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 19, 2015)

There is really no reason at all to soak seeds....if they are fresh.  It makes me wonder how old the seeds are as they are telling you to soak.  Every time you handle a seed, you risk damaging it or passing pathogens to it.  Not sure how you are going to get it into rockwool when the tap root is 1/2-1" without damaging it.  I have really never heard of a seed company requiring something like this to guarantee its seeds.  The seeds do not need light until they have popped through the medium.  

This just sounds pretty bizarre to me....   

Also, 5-7 days is not that long.  Look at what you are planning--soak in water, wait, put into paper towel, wait, put into rockwool.  As the plant will still be encased in the seed hull, you will have to bury the tap root below the surface, and then wait for it to pop through.  This is probably a 5-7 day process.


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## Gooch (Aug 19, 2015)

Yes i agree with you on the length of the taproot, as i just watched a video of a guy trying to put it into rockwool, had a very difficult time, so i suspect i will try it and put it in the rockwool with 1/4" coming out.
I will run a few tests tonight and see how long it takes to get to an actual starting point of 2 leaves above the fold.
I am going to 
1-just germinate inside the cube with light
2-germinate one no light to 1/4" and insert with light


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## Rosebud (Aug 20, 2015)

This is my favorite read on germination:  http://mandalaseeds.com/Guides/Germination-Guide


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 20, 2015)

You do not need light until they pop out of the medium.  Putting light on them when they don't need it just dries out the medium faster.

Be sure to presoak your rockwool cubes in water pH'd to 5.5.

I also like Mandala's germination guide that Rosebud linked.


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## Hushpuppy (Aug 21, 2015)

I also use the paper towel method for germination. I prefer this method specifically because I have had seeds that were put in soil that failed to germ. With the paper towel method, I let them go a couple days in dark, warm place (I also wet my towel with 80f water), and then when I see the seed shell has cracked and the tap root is just beginning to emerge, I move them to my medium and cover them, and set under my lights in order to keep them warm. I don't use any intense light at first as I only want to warm the surface of the soil/medium. I get very good results with this method.

All that said, I have to agree with THG on the handling of germed seeds. It is very delicate and vulnerable at that point. Mishandling of the germed seeds can easily damage and/or kill the seedling. I wouldn't have a problem with placing them in the RW cubes (except that I hate RW) as the cubes usually have small openings that can be expanded to accommodate dropping the germed seed in and then covering with a small amount of loose material. If the root tip ends up facing up rather than down (as Murphy's law demands) I don't worry about it as the tap root will right itself.


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## Gooch (Aug 21, 2015)

Thanks hush, do you only grow in dirt? I have such terrible luck with dirt i think its because you have to pay alot closer attention to everything because its organic. I am hoping my attempt at hydro is going to be more fruitful as someone :yay: bullied me into using my purchased feminized seeds


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 22, 2015)

I personally think that organic is way harder than hydro.  I never do as well with my soil plants as I do with my hydro ones (but I keep trying).  I don't run ebb and flow as I have better luck with DWC, but I will lend you a hand as I can on hydro.


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## Gooch (Aug 22, 2015)

what is the difference between ebb and flow and dwc?


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## NiceBud (Aug 24, 2015)

Gooch said:


> Thanks hush, do you only grow in dirt? I have such terrible luck with dirt i think its because you have to pay alot closer attention to everything because its organic. I am hoping my attempt at hydro is going to be more fruitful as someone :yay: bullied me into using my purchased feminized seeds



HIGH

If you use organic soil all you do is water till the day of harvest. If need be add some more ensimes. Once its a plant in a big pot. Its mostly watching it for fun. 

I've heard things in hydro grow faster. The room I have is great for dirt medium.


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## Hushpuppy (Aug 24, 2015)

Hey Gooch, actually I never grow in dirt. I am strictly a hydro farmer. But I like to do things differently than most, and I found that me and my plants love using coco coir which is soilless (but organic) medium. It is a bit tricky to use coco coir in hydro because you have to be careful to not let any of the fine particulate matter get into the water. I actually use a hybridized setup(which incorporates DWC, UC, and timed Top Feed) where I have my plants start in cups of coco, then they get moved to the larger planters and set into the hydro system. I am using larger net bottomed pots with 3gal "smartpot" bags in the pots to hold the coco coir from getting into the water. I have great success and enjoy this method.

Organic soil method is challenging to many people because you really have to understand the functions of organics and microbiology, and the symbiotic relationships that are absolutely necessary for its success. Some folks just get it, and they are able to do it with great success, while others struggle with it. For those who "just get organics", its easy and simple. But for those people who don't have that "organic" connection with organic growing, its a constant struggle. Hydro is actually very straight forward and relatively simple. Once you learn the "mechanics" of hydro, and remember the laws of hydro, the rest follows over time and experience.

Hydro is definitely better than organic/soil (for some people) but one method doesn't give better results than the other. Its more of what works best for you and your unique circumstances and environment.


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## Gooch (Aug 30, 2015)

I am perplexed at the differences in growing in hydro and growing in soil especially in this first stage. Here are 2 plants at same age. I think because in dirt the seed has access to nutes right from the go, but in hydro they say to ph water to 5.5 and only use that? 

View attachment week1-h.jpg


View attachment week-1.jpg


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 30, 2015)

I think there is something wrong.  I never ever have had plants in hydro and plants in soil so different in size, even after a week.  I never put the rockwool into the hydro unit until it has roots through the bottom of the cube and then I bury the rockwool below the hydrotron (the rockwool can grow algae).  I do not know exactly what is wrong, but the seedling in the rockwool is way behind....and that is not normal.


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## WeedHopper (Aug 30, 2015)

And it looks stretched.  Very strange.


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## Gooch (Aug 30, 2015)

I should put this has gone beyond the question asked and is continued here http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=72334&page=3

I agree once the root came out the bottom I buried it, but it stretched before it came out?


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