# LST and the Big Fan Leaves



## omnigr33n (Oct 19, 2008)

I have started to LST for the first time and I have to say that it really makes the tending of my plants a lot more enjoyable. 

I have one question.  What do I do with the big fan leaves that block light to the new growing colas? If I leave them will it affect the growth of the new colas?  I am thinking I should just leave them where they are.


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## Hick (Oct 19, 2008)

Those fan leaves are solar collectors, that provide for the process that supplies energy to your plant.."photosynthesis" 
IMO.. don't remove them. Don't tuck them away from the light. They are what utilizes the light more than any other plant part


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## omnigr33n (Oct 19, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> Those fan leaves are solar collectors, that provide for the process that supplies energy to your plant.."photosynthesis"
> IMO.. don't remove them. Don't tuck them away from the light. They are what utilizes the light more than any other plant part



Thats what I initially guessed, but needed a second opinion.  Didn't seem right to hide away such huge photosynthesis factories.  Thanks Hick, you da man dude.


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## megan23247 (Oct 19, 2008)

*I read somewhere the other day not to cut the fan leaves cause "Mother nature put them there and Mother nature doesnt make mistakes."  This is true im sure BUT considering that when we do things like LST  plants and were kinda 'messing with nature' then do those same rules apply?  Im just curious cause I to have a plant that im doing LST on and I thought about this the other day because I have some fan leaves also blocking the underneath growth.  Normally I leave them alone and let "mother nature" take its coarse but I questioned removing them this time since I am kinda 'tweaking' my plants 'natural' way of growing.  Just wondering.  *


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## omnigr33n (Oct 20, 2008)

I don't see why you cant try and move them out of the way.  AS long as they are still receiving light.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 20, 2008)

omnigr33n said:
			
		

> Thats what I initially guessed, but needed a second opinion.


 

Looks like you have gotton four opinions...Leave them Be..The plant will adjust itself to the light...with us doing LST its going to happen..just wait a day os so..it will grow past the leaf...the thing I watch 4 is that they dont lay on top of soil..seems to cause problems..JMO..Hope this helps



take care and be safe


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## FizGig (Oct 20, 2008)

Hhmm...Here's another opinion to consider; I've been known to remove a fan leaf or 2 (or 3), IF they are in a bunch and concealing the majority of the light to lower leaves branching to bud-sites. - I only do it sparingly.

megan23 makes a very good point about the "tweaking" of the plants during LST; the removing of a few fan leaves is just another example, IMO. - Anything to encourage better growth all around.


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## NorCalHal (Oct 20, 2008)

Hick is correct man. Fan leaves are the "solar" panels that provide the needed energy to promote health bud growth.

If you feel that the leaves are blocking the lower part of the plant, then cut off the lower branches that are getting no light. It is FAR better to trim up the lower part on the plant then to pull leaves trying to get light to lower branches that will produce inferior buds.

Trust us, you will be happier!


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 20, 2008)

well put NorCalHal....5 stars..IMO


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## JBonez (Oct 20, 2008)

What ive been doing is just moving the fan leaves to expose the newer grow lights, i kinda tuck them to the side, that way they still recieve light, seems to be working so far, check this pic out, look at the budsites


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## Bleek187 (Oct 20, 2008)

ok.. whats gonna happen is..... the parts of the plant that dont get light are gonna turn brownish and die off... what i do personaly is about every 2 or 3 weeks i cut off most of the big fan leaves.. this lets light get to new growth and in about a week there are new big fan leaves so the plant isnt hurt at all.. then when i take clones i cut off all big fan leaves, take my clones and cut off lower leaves that i know im just gonna cut off later anyway.. i thin tha plant out  prolly 3 or 4 times between taking clones..


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## JBonez (Oct 20, 2008)

Bleek187 said:
			
		

> ok.. whats gonna happen is..... the parts of the plant that dont get light are gonna turn brownish and die off... what i do personaly is about every 2 or 3 weeks i cut off most of the big fan leaves.. this lets light get to new growth and in about a week there are new big fan leaves so the plant isnt hurt at all.. then when i take clones i cut off all big fan leaves, take my clones and cut off lower leaves that i know im just gonna cut off later anyway.. i thin tha plant out  prolly 3 or 4 times between taking clones..



Not that im speaking from my vast experience or anything, but im pretty sure that removing bigger fan leaves is not a good thing, i have no problems exposing my future budsites with proper training and manipulation,and have not found a need to cut off any leaves unless they are dead, or very close to dead and dried up. Im pretty sure that cutting off these "energy factories" is most certainly going to stunt growth at a noticeable level, again, not that i have experience or anything, im a newb and learning, but i try to stick to what the seasoned gentlemen & ladies have told me on this site.


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## NorCalHal (Oct 20, 2008)

Bleek187 said:
			
		

> ok.. whats gonna happen is..... the parts of the plant that dont get light are gonna turn brownish and die off... what i do personaly is about every 2 or 3 weeks i cut off most of the big fan leaves.. this lets light get to new growth and in about a week there are new big fan leaves so the plant isnt hurt at all.. then when i take clones i cut off all big fan leaves, take my clones and cut off lower leaves that i know im just gonna cut off later anyway.. i thin tha plant out prolly 3 or 4 times between taking clones..


 
This is not sound advice.

Do NOT cut your big fan leaves off. Period. As I said, if you are worried about the undergrowth not getting light, cut out the undergrowth.


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## Tater (Oct 20, 2008)

Why does this keep coming.  How is killing your plants food source a good idea?  Of course when you cut the fan leaves you see the plant respond with vigerous growth, its trying to replace all the leaves you took from it.  If you cut the roots then the leaves wouldn't grow until the roots caught up to the foilage.  If you cut the foilage the roots won't grow until the foilage catch's up to the roots.  Bigger roots = bigger harvest.  Cutting fan leaves off is moronic.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 20, 2008)

DITO Last posts ..what are you thinking *Bleek187* my friend.


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## Bleek187 (Oct 21, 2008)

hmmm.. i guess it depends on what your doing with the plant..

so let me clarify...

If we are talking about a plant in flower... then no.. dont cut off the fan leaves... i usualy lollypop my plants which is pretty much cutting off most of the undergrowth... they will end up with one big cola and 4 or 6 big branches with nice size buds...

If we are talking about a Mother or a plant that you are keeping in Veg while doing LST... then i say cut away... you cut off the fan leaves and guess what... more grow back...


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## Bleek187 (Oct 21, 2008)

heres my mom thats under LST

Fist pic is just after i took clones from her... 
i took 25 cuttings and trimmed off all the big fan leaves..
i also cut off a lot of small fan leaves on new growth...


the second pic is exactly 2 weeks later...


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## desertsead (Oct 21, 2008)

I do a screen of green set up were I trim the bottom part of the plant, leaf canopy in the middle and buds minus the fan leafs on top.  This work very well *if you have a small light like a 250w *were the light gives less penetration.

If you have a larger light like a 400 or biger were you have more penetration you can keep the uper fan leaves.


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## snowberry (Oct 21, 2008)

what are some general pointers for LST... Im somewhat new


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## Hick (Oct 21, 2008)

Bleek187 said:
			
		

> hmmm.. i guess it depends on what your doing with the plant..
> 
> 
> If we are talking about a Mother or a plant that you are keeping in Veg while doing LST... then i say cut away... you cut off the fan leaves and guess what... more grow back...



Well, you got 'that' right.. "you cut off the fan leaves and guess what... more grow back."
but do you "think" that forcing the plant to _RE_-produce the fan leaves is a good thing?  Forcing it to RE grow leaves, rather than expend that energy into new productive growth doesn't make much sense.
  The "canopy" feeds the entire plant. When you remove leaves from the canopy, you eliminate the plants ability to photosynthesize. Photosynthesis is _THE_ process that allows your plant to convert light into usefull energy. Removing them goes against all botanical/biological facts.



> what are some general pointers for LST... Im somewhat new


look in the indoor section for the "sticky" on 'low stress training'..


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## Bleek187 (Oct 21, 2008)

all i know is... if i dont cut off my fan leaves ... the undergrowth will start to die... if i do cut off the fan leaves... the undergrowth takes off and gives me bigger better clones... so whatever... maby if i had 209323 more lights on the plants i wouldnt need to do this but you cant tell me im wrong... i do it and it works perfectly for me.. dif strokes for dif folks i guess


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## JBonez (Oct 21, 2008)

Gentleman.


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## NorCalHal (Oct 21, 2008)

Bleek, it's not that you are just wrong, you just look at it differently. I am sure it works for you, but there are better ways of training a mother.
As far as pulling fan leaves off of FLOWERING plants, that is not wise AT ALL.
Cutting out the undergrowth is by far the better way to go, if you want a good yeild that is.

If you cut out the undergrowth, and left the fan leaves alone, you will get more clones faster. The plant will get bigger, thus giving u more shoots to cut in less time.


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## PercyCultivator (Oct 22, 2008)

i might as well get my little piece in about this subject!
i DO cut fan leaves off and IN MY OPINION (you may have your own) its GREATTTTT! 
I do it strategically... once i have around 3 - 4 pairs of leaves i will begin to remove one or two of the LOWER fan leaves to expose the immature bud sites, and in conjunction with squeezing the stem within about 2 -3 days the gap where the fan leaf was has been filled by the lower budsites that have grown up into its space. PLEASE NOTE I ONLY EVER CUT FAN LEAVES THAT COME OFF THE MAIN STEM, NEVER ANY OTHERS!!!
Anyways, by the time the bud sites have grown some more fan leaves should have emerged at the top of the plant meaning i can cut of another fan leave off 1 - 2 nodes above where i last removed leaves.... this then allows the budsites that were exposed previously to develop further and the ones that were being shaded by higher fan leaves to be exposed and grow big!!

All in all in results in all the lower branches that would be underdeveloped to end up being all most as tall as the plant itself. I almost end up with a table of budsites.

Basically i believe you can cut fan leaves as long as you dont go crazy!
Oh and in a 1.2 x 1.2 x 2.0m space i managed to get 6 oz + of two separate plants under a 600w light (12 oz minimum in total off TWO plants!!) so to me cutting off fan leaves isnt an issue. 

Hope my info has been helpfull 

p.s. I NEVER CUT ANY LEAVES OFF IN FLOWER, I ONLY DO ALL MY FAN LEAF CUTTING IN VEG STAGE!!


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## PercyCultivator (Oct 22, 2008)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Hick is correct man. Fan leaves are the "solar" panels that provide the needed energy to promote health bud growth.
> 
> If you feel that the leaves are blocking the lower part of the plant, then cut off the lower branches that are getting no light. It is FAR better to trim up the lower part on the plant then to pull leaves trying to get light to lower branches that will produce inferior buds.
> 
> Trust us, you will be happier!


 
i have to disagree in my opinion!!
by removing the fan leaves carefully and strategically ive had the LOWEST of branches that come out of the plant stem strech up to be as tall as the whole plant itself and by keeping it level with the top of the plant by bending the top over i have ended up getting highly developed colas as a result. The more sites that get light the more bud youll get, so cutting of the lower branches just means you loose out on bud!


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## Hick (Oct 22, 2008)

:confused2:...


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## godspeedsuckah (Oct 22, 2008)

I have cut myself shaving before and it kinda stung.


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## NorCalHal (Oct 22, 2008)

PercyCultivator said:
			
		

> i have to disagree in my opinion!!
> by removing the fan leaves carefully and strategically ive had the LOWEST of branches that come out of the plant stem strech up to be as tall as the whole plant itself and by keeping it level with the top of the plant by bending the top over i have ended up getting highly developed colas as a result. The more sites that get light the more bud youll get, so cutting of the lower branches just means you loose out on bud!


 
You hit a good point. Some lower branches are viable,as long as the tops can reach the upper canopy. In this case, I would just "strip" that low branch of the lower nodes and leave the top.

But really, you shouldn't cut good fan leaves out to "promote" this. If the lower brach is going to produce good bud, it will reach the canopy. But you still want to strip that branch of lower growth.

Folks, don't take this as just "chopping" off all nranches 8" up the stem. What we are talking about is stripping the "undergrowth", which means leaving tops of branches, but stripping the shaded areas. You have to understand that the light getting to a bud site is not what is creating the bud. It is the light being gathered by the fan leaves that create the energy and "food" for the bud site. 

You are correct by saying that leaving all this will get you more "bud". But, if you clean up all that lower undergrowth, you will get less bud, but your buds will be bigger, thus giving you more weight.


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## godspeedsuckah (Oct 22, 2008)

I do the same thing as you NorCal, I do not do a true lollipopping (spelling) of my plants, but I do remove some of the lower branches for good airflow under the plants. I have never seen, with my own experiences, any buds on the lower branches that I would miss by doing this.


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## Tater (Oct 22, 2008)

I like how the experts in this thread spout opinions while those of us which have done the required reading assigned by the teacher get to quote facts.  I challenge anyone to go read a botany book either on MJ or a plant of similar structure and then come back here and tell me that cutting fan leaves off is a good idea.  If you can then one of two things happened.  You didn't understand what you were reading or you are to stubborn to admit that you were wrong.  Fan leaves and strong root systems are what create big buds, and big pumpkins, and apples or roses.  Without these two things there would be no food for the plant to use to make these wonderful thing.  By cutting the fan leaves off you force the plant to focus on regrowing growth that it has already once produced, and while doing that it will not develop new root structure (if it does it will be at a much much slower rate) until it has replaced the damage you have inflicted on it.  Now if you hadn't of stripped those fan leaves off it could have concentrated on NEW growth and NEW root growth.  I'm pretty sure I explained this once already but maybe I wasn't clear the first time.


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## Hick (Oct 22, 2008)

..AND employing .."in conjunction with squeezing the stem"... Supercropping, as Percy says  above, will encourage those lower branches to 'catch up' to the canopy.. 
But I agree whole heartedly, that removing fan leaves should seldom, if "ever" be recommended. nor is it 'beneficial'..


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## omnigr33n (Oct 22, 2008)

I don't understand why people just can't use pipe cleaner to just train and move them out of the way.  Its not hard and is way less stressful for the plant.


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## FizGig (Nov 7, 2008)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Hick is correct man. Fan leaves are the "solar" panels that provide the needed energy to promote health bud growth.
> 
> If you feel that the leaves are blocking the lower part of the plant, then cut off the lower branches that are getting no light. It is FAR better to trim up the lower part on the plant then to pull leaves trying to get light to lower branches that will produce inferior buds.
> 
> Trust us, you will be happier!


 
True that. - I normally remove the lower 1/3 leaves, just for this reason...
I also believe, a "strategic" removal of a leaf or 2, that will allow more light to filter to the overall canopy, can be beneficial in the long-run.

And IMO, I learned this from a "pro" that's been growing some supreme weed (inside & outdoors) for years..."To each their own."


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## Flyinghigh (Nov 7, 2008)

Just go and Buy some CFL's and hang them around the bottom of ur grow, that if your not getting penatration from light up above.. I do that when in Flowering and maybe during Veggie and that depends on how many plants I got going on in the room.

Myself I wouldn't cut any fan leafs off till they turn yellow at the end of grow..


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