# Update on leaf-cirrhosis



## The Poet (Sep 11, 2016)

Still having the same old problem! 
New growth sure but old leaves are not alive. {I wish I had a camera} 
They're doing better than they were but I have, in an attempt to solve the problem:

1. washed soil.
2. Azamaxed plants and room.
3. washed pots and cleaned everything.
4. I grow without compacting the soil, {light and fluffy}
5. No over watering!
6. I changed my 400w hps bulb!
7. checked ph of my rain water.
8. I use Empire Builder soil + perlite.


     Now I am wondering about ph!
In the first place how can 'store bought' soil be way out of ph for what it is supposed to be used for?
Secondly, I can't check 'soil' with this ph thing I have. 
   It is two bottles of higher ph and lower ph.
 I am supposed to mix a bit of, {stuff x in bottle #3} 
 and see if the sample is {yellow-yellow/green} but its fine. 
My water and nutes are good but what about my soil?

    Do I need a soil ph tester? 


                                  Thank you...


                                          The Poet...&#9834;


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## Rosebud (Sep 11, 2016)

Poet, i know nothing about PH. I do organics.  I wish i could help.. someone will. hang in. sounds like your doing everything right, i am  not familiar with that soil though.


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## Grower13 (Sep 11, 2016)

Empire Builder soil
Ingredients:

Crafted with pride from coco coir, sphagnum peat moss, composted forest product, worm castings, coco chips, lava rock, pumice, perlite, gypsum, langbeinite, sea bird and bat guano, fish bonemeal, feather meal, bonemeal, limestone, greensand, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, glacial rock dust, azomite, soybean meal, and rice bran.

FAQs:

What is the pH of EmpireBuilder?

Around 6.5 pH.

What should I do before or when I transplant into Empire Builder?

Water in media slowly enough to completely wet out soil a day before transplanting.

What is the percentage of worm castings?

Around 10% by weight.

Do I need to amend the soil?

For most plants no, some plants may require additional feeding for best results.

Will this soil burn seedlings or transplants?

Most healthy starts will do just fine in well-watered soil.

NEED TO KNOW.....

are you adding nutrients?
how much perlite are you adding?
tell me about your rainwater.... ph.... how you catch it...... how often are you watering?
How big are your pots? 
How big are your plants?

If your not adding nutrients and your PH is ok....... but this soil sounds like organic to me.......... My first guess is something you said it's not....... so not sure I can help you.


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## Grower13 (Sep 11, 2016)

also...... how did you wash the soil?


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## Rosebud (Sep 11, 2016)

Thanks G13, I googled it and there seems to folks that love it and others that don't. The first ingredient is coco?  I haven't grown in coco or do i add it to my own soils. I know lots of folks love it.   Is this the soil you have used forever Poet?


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## Grower13 (Sep 11, 2016)

Rosebud said:


> Thanks G13, I googled it and there seems to folks that love it and others that don't. The first ingredient is coco? I haven't grown in coco or do i add it to my own soils. I know lots of folks love it. Is this the soil you have used forever Poet?


 

A little Epsom will solve any issue that well draining coco could cause........


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 11, 2016)

With that soil Having a significant amount of coco, I would definitely add some Epsom initially so that coco doesn't leach it from the greensand. I would also have to wonder about the microbe herd in this medium. It sounds well amended but if it doesn't have a live and healthy microbe herd, it will perform poorly, like trying to feed babies raw meat. (They cant process it.) Do you use any microbe inoculant?


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 11, 2016)

To the pH question: If you are working with organic medium that is active, as long as your source water is close to 6.8 pH, you should never have to check that (unless the microbe herd has perished for some reason).


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## The Poet (Sep 11, 2016)

Grower 13 and Hushpuppy!


   I use Empire Builder soil because the owner of the Hydro store said it was his best soil. 
He was the one who recommended the Dyna Grow nutes too after me complaining about the cost and difficulty in mixing Canna stuff and that Espoma was granulated and not able to be used with accuracy.
 Not "Canna specific".
33% perlite, 
1/4- 1/2 teaspoon Dyna Grow nutes, 8"- 16" plants.
Soil is Empire Builder and I water it in empty 3 gallon buckets every 3 days for two weeks to 'wash out' the soil before using it as I got a batch that was too strong.
My water comes off the 'tin roof' barn and sits in barrels.  


     But wait!

   I went outside today in order to see how the little outside crop was doing about the leaf cirrhosis and I was amazed to find that it had entirely disappeared. Lots of new growth and the cirrhosis was not noticeable on the older leaves. The sun did it! The sun cured the plants of whatever was ailing them. 
   Remember me mentioning that I had replaced my 400w bulb?
I was suspicious about the light and I don't know why. 
My bulb was not more than a year or two old and I can't see why it would be responsible for such a weak crop and am reluctant to blame it just yet but  replaced it yesterday. 

        The plants have been outside for a week and they are fine now.
I'll see if the new bulb helps. I am sure it will as every little bit helps and the light is the most important thing. With the Autumnal Equinox Sept. 22 {right around the corner} I may 'go outside'...

   Does this sound familiar to anyone?
   What are the symptoms for being lit by a weak light?
   The 'dim bulb' syndrome? 
   Hmmm...


                  We may be onto something.


                                               The Poet...


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## pcduck (Sep 12, 2016)

You have organic soil and using synthetic nutes. The soil sounds like you can go 6 to 8 weeks without feeding. Damaged leaves will not regenerate. Although outdoors is great, with indoor grows we are trying to improve on the outdoors. If you are getting that sort of results from moving them outdoors, I would be checking my fresh air exchange and my temps.


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## The Poet (Sep 12, 2016)

Duck!


     Organic soil and synthetic nutes! Wow, you are right and I have had problems with mixing the two before. Maxi-grow didn't like Canna nutes at all. I had one following the other and they didn't mix well. The residual one clashed with the newly added other. This is important and I feel I am getting closer to solving the problem of why my plants are doing so bad. There isn't anything as valuable as this solution.

   So, I need new soil or a different fertilizer. 

   I think that since moving them outside and the complete recovery that has ensued that the sun showed that one problem is the old bulb. 
   I have had a new $20. bulb in their for one day but let me ask you this...

   I have always used cheap bulbs. 
I ask for a 400w hps bulb and always buy the cheapest one they have. 
They always look at me kinda funny and say "the cheapest?" 
So there are bulbs ranging from $20. to $95. for the old 400w and are the more expensive bulbs really that much better? I think I'll go with a $40 bulb next time because it can't hurt. 

   I didn't realize Empire builder soil had enough nutes in it to be a problem with Dyna grow. It being just soil. And it was the owner at the Hydro store who recommended bot together! I'll call him and go by there today!

   Thank you Duck. I'll get back to ya...


                                      The Poet...&#9834;


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## pcduck (Sep 12, 2016)

I use the mid-range bulbs and change out every 6 months.


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## The Poet (Sep 12, 2016)

Alright, I am going down to the Hydro store tomorrow and stock up on a different soil and fertilizer. 
Several years ago when I had just found the forum here and the Hydro store opened up, I went in and asked for happy frog or some such soil and was given Empire Builder. Having had a bad experience with co co before, I didn't notice that Empire builder had co co in it, so its no wonder my plants don't like it.
   So... with that said, what soil do you guys use? 

   Rosebud, if I bought Happy Frog and used it with their dry fertilizer would I be organic?

   I recognize the name Happy Frog as how could one forget it. It is the same price as general all purpose soil in bags I may get Happy Frog unless I get better directions. I'll get 'Frog' and re-pot everything throwing the old soil in my flowerbed. There.

         It was the soil with co co in it, {and nutrients which are not compatible with Synthetics} compacted and over watered, then fertilized with a synthetic fertilizer. This and placed under a $20. light. Poor plants! 
I am on the mend so to speak. Tomorrow {if I can get there} I'll resupply with new soil and ditch the old stuff. Use Happy Frog fertilizer and with a new bulb... everything is good.

   What brands of soil do y'all use?



                                  Thank you...


                                            The Poet...


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## Hushpuppy (Sep 13, 2016)

Weak light will cause your plants to stretch and grow real fast. But they will be very spindly and have long spaces between each leaf on the stems. eventually the plant will wilt some and possibly yellow off faster on the lower half of the plant.


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## Gooch (Sep 17, 2016)

if you are trying to grow organically then do not buy chemical nutrients as the chemical nutes trigger the plant to kill off the microbes as there is no need for them when you use nutes. So first you need to figure out what you want to do, organic, or add nutes...
I am in pure hydro because well **** soil and coco they both did nothing but cause me problems everytime i have ever used them, troubleshooting this problem or that problem, in hydro i troubleshoot nothing ever.


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## Rosebud (Sep 17, 2016)

Poet, how bout you keep your soil and change the nutes. My nutrients that I use after the bat guano and worm castings, is Earth Juice. It is a good organic nute.

You are getting the best help we have here, isn't that awesome...these folks will get you figured out.


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## Rosebud (Sep 17, 2016)

Here is a thread you might like to look at..the organics section here is awesome.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54272


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