# First grow box - plz help



## guykhoury9 (Nov 2, 2014)

Hey Everyone , i finally built my first grow box . 

Dimensions : 

- Height : 39.3inches / 3.28ft / 100cm
- Width : 23.6inches / 1.96ft / 60cm
- Depth : 15.7inches / 1.31ft / 40cm

Lights : 

Veg : 
3 x 23w (100W / 1398lm / 2700K) CFLs 
3 x 23w (100W / 1398lm / 6500K) CFLs

Flo : 
4 x 23w (100W / 1398lm / 2700K) CFLs 
2 x 30w (135W / 1950lm / 2700K) CFLs

The only thing i haven't figured out yet and just discovered the problem today (Due to lack of knowledge and experience) : No ventilation , temperature rising to 30+C°/86+F° . 

I ordered : 
1) Small desk fan . Will be placed inside the box for air circulation .
2) 2x10 CFM Pc Fans . (Not sure how to mount them , either intake or exhaust) 

P.S : Will be growing 2 x Purple Bud (Feminised Seeds) - 75% Indica

Any help on that would be GREATLY appreciated guys ! 

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## Rosebud (Nov 2, 2014)

You have put a lot of work into that box. I have never used cfl's before but I believe they run hot..

I will bump this so others will pop in... Green mojo for you grow.

:bump::bump:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 3, 2014)

First of all, ventilation is for more than heat control.  Your plant needs a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on for proper photosynthesis.  Also, with CFLs, you may find that when you get as many of them as you need that the computer fans may not take care of the heat.

I would get rid of the foil--there is nothing good about foil in a grow room.  There are reasons for this.

You will need more light.  Lighting needs are figured by lumens per sq ft.  For vegging you want 3000 lumens per sq ft of light in the blue spectrum and for flowering, 5000 lumens per sq ft in the red spectrum.  Your space is a about 7 sq ft.  So you will need 21,000 lumens for vegging and 35,000 lumens for flowering.  These are minimums.  Most of us like to get our lumens up around 7500 per sq ft for flowering. There are some places where you can scrimp or improvise, but your lighting is not one of them.  Your lighting is directly tied to your yield.  To get to minimum lighting, you will need about 16 23W 1400 lumens bulbs for vegging and about 25 for for flowering.  A 400W MH/HPS dimmable in a cooltube would most likely be cheaper than buying all those CFLs. You should also have reflectors for the CFLs as you are loosing about 1/2 your light--it is just being disbursed to the top of your space.  While the plants are very small, you can get away with less light, but after 3 weeks or so you want your light bumped up to the 3000 lumens per sq ft. for vegging.

Other than the needing way way more light, and probably more ventilation, the box looks nice.  I think you are wise to start with known genetics and a strain that will stay smaller as you have very limited headroom.


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 5, 2014)

Wow thats some great information right there ! Thank you for taking the time to explain to me everything you wrote above ! Ventilation , problem solved ! Did a pretty decent work ill post pics of that later . And as for the lights , i know its true but it sounds crazy lol ive seen people grow really nice buds with way less power , intensity , lumens , etc .. than i have ! This is my first grow so im just trying to keep it a bit simple and mostly a little "cheap" aswell ... I might consider buying an HPS light for my 2nd grow when im a bit more experienced . But like you said , light is the most important factor ! I also thought about adding reflectors but then again , i have 6 lights in total which most of them are going to be on the sides of the plants so they'll get enough light from those ones . Ill probably get reflectors for just the ones hanging on top . Is there anyway i could do my own reflectors ? And what about the aluminium foil ? Why is it bad ? I only used it to get more light reflection . Anyways thank you again for your help ! Much appreciated


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## Iron Emmett (Nov 6, 2014)

Aluminium foil doesnt reflect as well as you would think, it can also hold in heat and create hot spots in your grow, you would be better served to actually paint the inside of your box with a flat white paint, it will reflect more light than foil. the paint is also easy to clean and can help prevent the growing of mold etc.

HG is spot on about light, she really knows her stuff, you said you want to keep it inexpensive, which is understandable, but you may want to consider that you are going to be dedicating alot of time and energy into growing these plants, it is well worth the investment to help them be as happy and healthy as you can, when you factor in the power and seed cost, you may actually pull less usable bud than you could buy with the cash spent from your box. in the end of course its completely your choice and your grow, but im sure you would be much happier with the outcome if you invested in some serious lighting.

BTW i really like the box you made, nice work man


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 6, 2014)

Regardless of how it appears, foil is a poor reflector of light, as are mirrors.  There is science to back this up.  Painting the interior of your box with FLAT white paint will give you a lot better reflective surface than anything else for the money.  Flat white paint is quite a bit more reflective than glossy paint, so another case where appearances are deceiving.

Not sure where you have seen the great grows with way less energy and less light, but it just doesn't happen.  If you do not get more lighting, you simply are not going to produce much if anything.  Just because you have the lights concentrated in one area is not going to make much difference--the light will disburse throughout the entire room.  Truly if people could simply throw a few CFLs into a box and get dank bud, way way more people would be growing.  There are no shortcuts and running a box so underlit is really not even going to provide you with that much experience.  Plants that are grossly underlit and plants that are well lit behave entirely differently throughout their growing period.

Like Emmett says, it is your choice, but keep in mind that you do get out of this what you put into it.  Scrimping on light is the worst thing you can do...


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks to both of you for the really nice info ! Ive made some research on lights and stuff , but i wanna ask you then what would be the recommended "type" and "energy" for this type of box ? Including the cooling system and everything ! Its been 3-4 days since i planted the seeds , i also added the ventilation system which is doing wonders (managed to drop the temp from 32C/90F to 25C/77F ! Everything's been going really well (for now) . Ill post pictures to show you whats happening atm


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 7, 2014)

Pictures Below 

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## AluminumMonster (Nov 7, 2014)

Nicely done! I do love a well thought out DIY.:48:


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## MR1 (Nov 7, 2014)

Looking good , you could put your fan at plant level to get some airflow on the seedlings , it will help strengthen the stems and would also direct the heat upwards towards your exhaust fans.


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 7, 2014)

Thanks guys


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 8, 2014)

MR1 is correct about getting the circulating fan down where it will stir up the air around the plants and help strengthen their stems (for those big colas you are going to grow).

Without reflectors, you are loosing a big chunk of your light as it is basically radiating 360 degrees.  It is important to make the best use of your light, especially when using CFLs.  

My first post, I mistook the height for the length, so you do not have as much space as I had at first thought--the pics looked like it wasn't 39" long, so I went back and reread your post.  Us old construction workers just get used to dimensions being given as length, width, and height last.  A 150W HPS would cover your space, but I would sure like to see you with more light than minimum, so maybe a 250W.  Or better yet, the 400W dimmable ballast which gives you the option of running from 200-400W.  The CFL lighting you have will probably take you through vegging, so you have some time to save your pennies for a HPS.  Using an HPS to flower is really worth it.  The difference in yield will probably be more than enough to cover the cost of the light if you figure what you would pay for it on the street.  Another bonus will be lower power bills every single month--CFLs will require about twice as much (or more) wattage as the HPS.  Amazon has some good deals on HID lighting packages (ballast, bulb, reflector, usually hangers, and a timer).  Get an air coolable hood.

Your vents will have to be made light tight when flowering time comes.


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 8, 2014)

About the fan , i thought placing it on top aimed at the bottom would create an air cycle that will push the cool air to the top mixing with the hot air in order to have a constant stable temperature (And its aimed at the plants aswell) . But ill give your suggestion a try  

About the reflectors , i tried to look for some reflectors in shops nearby but couldnt find any , and i dont wana order online anymore because im having problems with the post office atm (they're kinda renovating so its taking long to recevie the stuff and sometimes the packages are getting lost) . So would you know of any way i could create my own reflectors ? 

Haha its fine , you kinda scared me with all those lumens in the beginning i was like where the hell am i gonna put all that ? lol 
So about the HPS lights , to be specific , will the 250W one cover all the space i have for both my plants during the flowering stage ? Im gona research and see how much they cost here in the shops nearby with the accessories . 

And about the prices on the streets where i live now its about 10&#8364; per gram approx which is about 13$ . Quite good i guess lol

Now about the vents , i usually cover them with towels (sounds cheap i know) during the off time when there is no light (the exhausts are put on the timer aswell coz the temperature drops usually when its dark and thats what i want) . And i actually did a test to see if there is any light coming in when its all dark by placing several cams recording the inside ; result was dark af ! My box is placed in the corner of my room where its the most dark so it barely gets any light even during the day . So i guess its all good for flowering ? 

Now i have one last question , i tried researching alot about the subject but i still kinda wanna hear your opinion about it (you seem really experienced  and im thankful to be getting some help from someone like you) . When should i exactly switch to the flowering stage ? I know the purple bud doesnt grow that much in height but ive read alot of different articles stating different amount of weeks that the plant should remain in the veg stage , so im kinda lost  another thing i learned is : for example your plant will be 2ft tall by the end of flowering , you switch from veg to flowering when its at 1ft (depends also on how much does it grow during the flowering stage) . Any recommendation of when i should switch mine to 12/12 given the the free space i have inside my box ?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 9, 2014)

Yes, you can probably build some kind of reflector for the CFLs, but the HPS is probably going to have to be purchased online.  Virtually all reflectors, etc come UPS or Fed Ex.  I have never had anything that size of weight come USPS, so the service from the post office is anon-issue.  Amazon has some good prices on HID light set-ups.  

A 250W will cover the size of your current box fine.  I would recommend looking on-line and getting a digital ballast that will run both MH and HPS and that is dimmable.

If you are in veg, you should be running your lights all the time.  There are a number of reasons for this, but the first is that your plants will stay shorter and bushier if you run the lights all the time.  This is especially important when the space is short as your is.  Manually covering the vents when lights go out is not going to work either.  And towels will not work--get something that will not let the light through.  Just because your camera could not see light does not mean that your plants will not.  Towels WILL let light through.  Also it is a mistake to believe that you are going to be at home every single day and/or remember at exactly the right time to cover the vents manually for the time it takes to flower a crop.  You will need another solution when it comes time to flower.

I would say that $13/gram isn't what I would call a great price, but if that is what it goes for where you live, that is what it goes for.  So, an oz runs a bit over $350.  A 400W dimmable ballast, MH and HPS bulbs, cooltube, hangers, basic time from Amazon--$150 [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-GLK400CT24E-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B00547I5I8/ref=sr_1_15?ie=UTF8&qid=1415549991&sr=8-15&keywords=250w+hps[/ame].  Four inch exhaust fan and carbon filter from Amazon--$100 [ame]http://www.amazon.com/VenTech-Inline-Exhaust-blower-Scrubber/dp/B005GJ7TFE/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1415550181&sr=8-2&keywords=4-+carbon+filter+fan[/ame]

After you gets a few crops under your belt and some experience, if you get your space dialed in, you could produce 1/2 to 3/4 pound every harvest, every 3-4 months.  Kind of makes the spending of $250 seem well worth it, doesn't it?


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 10, 2014)

Alright i will look everything up on amazon . As for the light , i just thought like logically when the plants grow in nature they still get moon light , etc .. So i mean if the cameras couldnt capture it inside the box i guess it shouldnt be a problem since there is no direct light in contact with the plants . But then again , im going to get something better like you said to cover the wholes since i dont have accurate measurements about intensity and **** (just to be sure) . 

And about the veg phase ? Any idea when should i go 12/12 ?


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 10, 2014)

Posted the message twice**


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 10, 2014)

Regardless of what you may believe, even small amounts of light will make a difference.  The moon is not real light--it is only light reflected from the sun and it is about a quarter of a million miles away from the earth.  In addition, growing outdoors is not like growing indoors.  We are not trying to mimic outdoors when growing indoors.

You are so far away from going to 12/12 that we do not even need to discuss it now.  It will be 6-8 weeks before the plants are ready to be put into flowering.


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 11, 2014)

Alright ! Sounds good that's what i was thinking . Ill be posting pictures of the growth :watchplant:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 12, 2014)

Wonderful.  A picture if worth a thousand words (most of the time).


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 14, 2014)

Update : Week 2

Couldnt fin any reflectors , so i just did my own 

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## lovbnstoned (Nov 16, 2014)

they look good so far


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 23, 2014)

3rd Week of veg 

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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 23, 2014)

Why are they all wet?

I would remove the foil from the container that you are using (for a drip tray?)  Foil is a very poor reflector of light, it is worse when it is wrinkled.  Use some regular drip trays under the plants.  Foil belongs in the kitchen.

Your plant looks good, however I detect a bit of nute burn on the tips of the leaves and tacoing of the leaves could be the beginning of a problem.  What are you feeding them and how much?  Are you Phing your nute solution?


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## guykhoury9 (Nov 24, 2014)

They're wet because i sometimes spray a little water on the leaves to make them feel fresh (i know im paranoid) lol .. 

The foil that you're seeing here is nothing at all , i used this box to put the plants in only because i didnt have drip trays .. And this box was actually my base , i wanted to grow my plants in it but then i changed my mind and expanded by building the wooden box  however i do have relfective parts still covered with foil but atleast they're smooth and not wrinkled , i just place them around the plants but you can't see them here in the pic . Im just gona keep going with the foil atm , dont think ill change the whole interior anymore until after the harvest .

The plants look good yes , and the yellow thingy on the tip of some leaves got me questioning myself ... I finally discovered that when watering the mix of nutrients (nitrogen , phosphorus , potassium) into my plants , some of the liquid was touching the leaves and thats why they turned yellow .. After i discovered that , i always made sure to pour the water+nutrients straight into the soil . Problem got solved 

About the doses , it said on the instructions to mix 2 doses with 3 liters of water . So i started with just one dose and going up progressively .


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## guykhoury9 (Dec 7, 2014)

Quick update : my right plant has been growing perfectly good . Left plant looks like sh*t dont know why 

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## guykhoury9 (Dec 15, 2014)

Week 6 : Right plant is looking good and still growing nicely .

Left plant's recovering (i stopped adding nutrients) 

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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 15, 2014)

Spraying the foliage is not necessarily a good thing.  I think you could quit that practice.  Both plants are showing signs of nute burn.  so, I would ease up on the nutes on both.

Again, please, please get rid of the foil.  It is a poor reflector of light.  The plants do not want or like light reflected to the underside of the leaves.  It can also create hot spots that will create burn spots.  It is detrimental to your grow.  Foil belongs in the kitchen, not in the grow room.

Overall, they look quite nice.  They are bushy and full.  What kind of nutes do you use and how much do you feed them?


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## lovbnstoned (Dec 17, 2014)

ya learn something everyday,, i'll remeber what ya said HG


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## guykhoury9 (Jan 17, 2015)

Sorry guys i havent been able to update since a long time , hope everyone spent some good time with their families on the holidays . 

Unofrtunately , i am here to say that my grow was unsuccessful ...

I have absolutely no idea why my plants have been reacting like that (Will post pictures) , but im gona try and write down the things that i might have done incorrectly and harmed the plants . 

Those were the plants , 3 weeks and 2 weeks ago on the final days of vegging . 

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## guykhoury9 (Jan 17, 2015)

Ok so here are the shocking images now ... The last 2 pictures are the most recent ones , and the first one was taken about a 5 days ago when the symptoms started to appear .

The things i think may have damaged the plants are :

I switched the flowering 1 week ago 
I added 2 more 135W cfl's (Caused alot of heat)
Added a carbon filter with extraction fan 
Reversed my "Pc extracting fans" so they would be blowing air inside the box (Intake fans)

So : 1 carbon filter + extraction fan + 2 intake fans + 2 passive intake holes

A couple days ago i noticed the temp going up to 38°C which 100°F .
I then removed the 2 big CFL's that ive added and the temp went back down.

About 4 days ago aswell , i think i over watered the plants (water mixed with nutriens) , and mix came back out of the holes down below and stayed in the plastic container for about a day . 4 days later (Today) , the soil is still wet (which is usually not normal) , so i guess by overwatering the plants i caused some kind of draining problem ? 

I dont know if i can do anything to revive the plants , or if i should put them back on vegging so they can get more light , ive lost hope now . 

I ordered a 300W led growlight which ill be receiving next week , ive had it with the hot temp rising and killing the plants . 

Anyways , i hope someone can tell me what went wrong precisely and guide me to the best way possible to try and revive the plants . (One of them looks better than the other though) .

Thank you 

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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 18, 2015)

Sweet Jesus 
I'm a noob that looks like it got way to Hot temp wise and dryied out and was corrected before totally plant melt down. 80F MAX or bad things happen.


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## guykhoury9 (Jan 18, 2015)

I did a bit of research and figured it was over fed with nutrients which killed it , i did some flushing with pure water and i think its becoming better now


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 18, 2015)

You never said what you are feeding them and what soil you are using? Did you PH the water?


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## bbr7515 (Jan 18, 2015)

http://cdn.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=209285&stc=1&d=1380940812

nice box!! my first grow was with cfl.. if the link works, this is what the plant looked like at the end


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 19, 2015)

I believe that it is a combination of high heat in the space and nutes that are too hot.  Why did you switch to flowering nutes?  Are the plants sexed?  

I also wonder why you added the filter this early and what fan do you have connected to it?  PC fans are not nearly strong enough for much more than a PC--they do a poor job in a grow space.  Remove the filter.  If you do not have a centrifuge type fan, you are going to need one.  One decent exhaust fan will do the job.  You do not need intake fans for a space so small.  I would remove the CPU fans altogether once you get a decent fan.  

Now on to food.  What exactly did you feed them and how much?  I am quite sure that they have bad nute burn, too.  However, you said you flushed and now I am wondering.....

If you flushed your plants properly (this takes about 4 times the volume of the container you are flushing) it might not dry out in 4 days.  So, did you actually give them a good flush and let the runoff go somewhere else (this is the stuff you are trying to get rid of)?  Did you use enough water?  Flushing is far far different than a heavy watering, which is not necessarily good.

An LED is still going to require decent ventilation.  Air exchange is for more than heat control--the plants need a continual supply of fresh air all the time the lights are on.  I personally like to exchange the air in my space several times a minute.  And you WILL need a centrifuge type fan to pull air through a carbon filter and the fan needs to be sized to the filter you have. 

They may or may not recover.  I would take them out of flowering though and let them try to recover or if these are bagseed, I would start over.  This is the kind of stress that makes the hermy come out in bagseed.


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## guykhoury9 (Jan 20, 2015)

THG , i was waiting for your answer lol always detailed and specific . 

First of all the nutes are still the same ones i have been using since the start .

The filter fan i got isn't a Pc fan , its actually a filter compatible fan that has the requirements to do the job for my space . I got the 100mm one , here's a link :

http://www.alchimiaweb.com/en/alchimia-in-line-extractor-product-4837.php

Filter : 

http://www.alchimiaweb.com/en/alchimia-can-lite-100150-carbon-filter-product-5300.php

The 2 Pc fans i still have are just intake fans now , i will remove them if you say so .

As for the food , i gave them half the dose suggested on the bottle , they didnt say how often , but the label says : mix 2 doses with 3L of water . I mixed 1 dose in 3L and gave each plant the same amount . I think i over did it though like every 2 days , but i really dont know how often i should feed them . 

As for the flushing , i didnt mesure the amount of poured water , but i kept watering and waiting , till the water came out "almost clear" . Did it like 6-7 times in the kitchen sink .

The plants seem to be growing new leaves now , do you think i should put it back on veg ? 

As for ventilation , i think i have a pretty good ventilation process going in the box with the extraction fan i have for the filter and 2 seperate portable fans ventilating the inside of my box . At night the temp drops to 22°C (71°F) and during the day when the lights are on it goes up to 30°C (86°F) . So i concluded that the only thing that may be getting heat is the lights , thats why i ordered a 300W Led light from "Mars Hydro" with 3 built in fans (Sucks that i payed the same amount on all my CFLs -.-) .


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## guykhoury9 (Jan 26, 2015)

oh and btw , the new fan that i got which i posted a link previously , is a 100CFM fan , and my grow space is equal to 8 cubic feet . So 100/8 = 12.5 times air renewed per minute . Am i right ?


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## guykhoury9 (Jan 26, 2015)

multifarious said:


> I'm sorry to say but that fan is not fit for purpose.
> 
> A little explanation would be good buddy ...
> 
> ...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jan 26, 2015)

Multi is correct.  I am getting so angry by the lying money grubbing SOBs that are selling unsuitable things to new growers just to make a buck.  There is no way thast fan is going to pull through that carbon filter.  Sorry...


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## guykhoury9 (Jan 27, 2015)

The Alchimia can-fan rs is much more suitable and very similar to the one thg recommended you to buy on the 9th November.

So this would be suitable ? http://www.alchimiaweb.com/en/alchimia-can-fan-rs-100/200m3h-extraction-fan-product-5272.php

Thanks for the help guys !


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## guykhoury9 (Jan 27, 2015)

There is this one too : http://www.alchimiaweb.com/en/tubular-duct-rvk-100a-160-m3-100mm-diam--product-635.php


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## guykhoury9 (Feb 1, 2015)

*Quick Update*

So i received my 300W Led panel , germinated 3 purple bud seeds and planted them 3 days ago into the soil . 

Temperature's been stable at 28°C (82°F) , but humidity at 35% .. I ordered a small humidifer to be able to get the number back to 50-60% .

I ordered a Dark Street 60x60x150cm (2'x2'x5'ft) grow tent that ill be using for vegging and flowering aswell . 

THG .. I finally removed the foil  Helped alot with the temp !

Will post more pictures in about a week or two .

Peace guys 

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## Joe420Camel (Feb 1, 2015)

seedlings under LED can be tricky.

#1 do NOT mist your leafs!  standing water on them will act like a magnifying glass and burn the leaf like ants on the sidewalk

I popped a bean under LED a few weeks ago.  It had a fair amount of stretch @ first so I lowered the light and then promptly (re)taught myself the above lesson.  Now I've moved the light almost all the way back up and things are doing ok.

It's going to vary from fixture to fixture so I can't really recommend a height for your light.  just pointing a few bumps in the road I hit and maybe help you avoid them.

green mojo for the grow!
:48:


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## guykhoury9 (Feb 2, 2015)

Joe420Camel said:


> seedlings under LED can be tricky.
> 
> I popped a bean under LED a few weeks ago.  It had a fair amount of stretch @ first so I lowered the light and then promptly (re)taught myself the above lesson.  Now I've moved the light almost all the way back up and things are doing ok.
> 
> :48:



Yea i stopped spraying the plants ! thanks for the info though

By saying you re-taught yourself the above lesson you mean you burned the plants when you lowered the light ? 

Im thinking of putting my CFL's back for the first couple weeks (2-3 weeks) then changing back to LED . What do you think ? Would it cause a disturbance with the intensity change ? 

By the way guys , i just discovered that there's a bunch of small flies inside my box (left the window open last night so they got in) .. My friend had the same issue and told me that he solved it by mixing something like lemon and garlic into water and spraying it in his box . He told me its harmless to the plants but really annoys the flies so thats how he got rid of them . Anyone has any other idea ? I imagine lemon mixed in the soil would change the PH no ?


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