# any help will be greatly appreciated!



## leastofthese (Dec 3, 2009)

so if you have read my cola? post (which they are moving over here to indoor growing) you will be up to speedd, if not here is my delema.

I started my grow out in a out building the weather got colder so now I have moved them indoors. they are flowering well and making progress. I believe that I may have retarded them because of the tempature. they are now in an area where the temp is 65 to 75 drgees. I was leaf feeding then until I found out that I wasnt suppose to while flowering there doesnt appear to be any damage. 

my question is how long do I let them flower or is there any time limit. here are a few pics to give you an idea of their present state. the one that isnt flowering I am just wondering if there is anyway of telling what it is, it is getting the same lignting as the ones flowering. 16/8. grow light tubes from a local store, two sets of two light 48".  















thanks for any comments or  suggestions!:watchplant:

they appear a little dry watering about every three days. using fresh water for a week then will go back to feeding them. was afraid my soil might be getting to acidic..


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## leafminer (Dec 3, 2009)

You've got flowering plants in 16/8? :doh: 
They appear to be revegging. I am not surprised. You need to run 12/12 in flower.
I don't think you have enough lumens on those plants. They will do fine if you get the time correct, and add some more light. Except for that one on the right of the first pics . . . what IS that? I would have tossed it on to the compost heap by now, it hardly has any canopy at all, waste of space.

Yeah I just took another look, for sure they are in reveg. Oh dear . . . it is going to stress them out but you really have little option except to change the lighting schedule to 12/12. They will pause again . . .


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (Dec 3, 2009)

leafminer said:
			
		

> what IS that? I would have tossed it on to the compost heap by now, it hardly has any canopy at all, waste of space.


 
:holysheep:  :holysheep:  :holysheep:  :holysheep: 


Those are def revegging...  Good luck...  do you have anymore seeds?


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## leastofthese (Dec 3, 2009)

leafminer said:
			
		

> You've got flowering plants in 16/8? :doh:
> They appear to be revegging. I am not surprised. You need to run 12/12 in flower.
> I don't think you have enough lumens on those plants. They will do fine if you get the time correct, and add some more light. Except for that one on the right of the first pics . . . what IS that? I would have tossed it on to the compost heap by now, it hardly has any canopy at all, waste of space.
> 
> Yeah I just took another look, for sure they are in reveg. Oh dear . . . it is going to stress them out but you really have little option except to change the lighting schedule to 12/12. They will pause again . . .


 
revegging?? sorry dont know the lingo yet but believe your telling me that they are going back into grow mode, so what your telling me is I am screwed and have messed this bunch up?? new at this and an really ignorant but then I guess learning by failure is how the wheel was made!


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## leastofthese (Dec 3, 2009)

JustAnotherAntMarching said:
			
		

> :holysheep:  :holysheep:  :holysheep:  :holysheep:
> 
> 
> Those are def revegging... Good luck... do you have anymore seeds?


 
revegging- de vegging ?? no more seeds so am I screwed? by cutting to 12/12 will I save anythin? will be on the hunt for more seeds now!

thanks!:holysheep: :holysheep: :holysheep: is right!


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 3, 2009)

Like Leafminer said I wouldn't waste my time and space with the first on not doing anything.  The others will probably be okay if you keep them on a 12 on 12 off light cycle.  Re=veg means exactly that...they are reverting back to vegative state because they are recieving light in too long of an interval.  I almost said recieving too much light, but that would not be correct, because they do need more light, just in a shorter amount of time.  If you don't have a HID light you need to get as many compact flourescents on them as you can afford to get.  They will be done when the trics have turned to cloudy colored, and I like mine to have about 25% amber...some people like more amber it's a matter of prefernce....get more light, and put it on a 12/12 light cycle....asap!


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## 4u2sm0ke (Dec 3, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> so if you have read my cola? post (which they are moving over here to indoor growing) you will be up to speedd, if not here is my delema.
> 
> I started my grow out in a out building the weather got colder so now I have moved them indoors. they are flowering well and making progress. I believe that I may have retarded them because of the tempature. they are now in an area where the temp is 65 to 75 drgees. I was leaf feeding then until I found out that I wasnt suppose to while flowering there doesnt appear to be any damage.
> 
> ...


 

They  are  revegging  and  The  first  few  pics  show  they  need  more  light ...IMO...take  care  and be safe:bolt::bong:


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## leastofthese (Dec 3, 2009)

thanks all going to get more lights as soon as this is done!


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## fleshstain (Dec 3, 2009)

if they are already re-vegging, as they appear to be, i'd put them under a constant 24 hour light cycle.... or at least an 18/6....


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## Krazeydays (Dec 3, 2009)

You sure have a problem, Imo I would put them under 24 hr. light and see what happens,
chances are they will herme on ya with all the stress.  good luck


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## leastofthese (Dec 3, 2009)

fleshstain said:
			
		

> if they are already re-vegging, as they appear to be, i'd put them under a constant 24 hour light cycle.... or at least an 18/6....


I am kind of conflicted here, 12/12 or 24/7 or 18/6??? what am I trying to do here dont I need them to start re flowering?? they have been in a colder enviroment but are not at a constant 68-75, so the goal I would guess is to get them to re flower right?? is that done in the 24/7 mode or the 12/12?  or would it be best to let them go 12/12 for a week and see what happens or the other way around 24/7???  you guys have the kowledge I started this just stumbling into it and came to the realization there is more to it them throwing light on them and watering them!!! so I get the HUB award (HEAD UP BUTT) this season but have I ruined them or are they just a bit retarded like me and could they come out of it???

thanks you guys are pillars of knowledge for us wondering around out here in the dark!!:holysheep: .


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## lordhighlama (Dec 3, 2009)

24/7 and 18/6 will veg your plant.

12/12 is what you will use to flower your plant.

At this stage it may be best to let them go all the way back into veg (setting the light to 24/0) for a week or two then switching back to 12/12.  May cause less stress this way.  Either way you have halted the flowering process so if your not in to big of a hurry let them veg for a few weeks.


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## fleshstain (Dec 3, 2009)

:yeahthat:

exactly! thanks lama!


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 3, 2009)

Except that the way those are budded up, they are going to take alot longer than a few weeks to fully revert back to veg, thats why I said I would toss the first one, and finish budding the ones out that already have decent sized flowers on them...your looking at a month to a month and 1/2 to get those fully reverted IMO, when you could just keep them flowering...they are already stressed out...so either way will work, but reveg on bag seed seems like alot of wasted time and energy to me...do what you think best...there is no right or wrong here...only oppinions


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## leastofthese (Dec 3, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Except that the way those are budded up, they are going to take alot longer than a few weeks to fully revert back to veg, thats why I said I would toss the first one, and finish budding the ones out that already have decent sized flowers on them...your looking at a month to a month and 1/2 to get those fully reverted IMO, when you could just keep them flowering...they are already stressed out...so either way will work, but reveg on bag seed seems like alot of wasted time and energy to me...do what you think best...there is no right or wrong here...only oppinions


 
well I loaded them up with two more 4 fters with two bulbs each so now I have 4-4 fters going, I guess I will run them on a 12/12 for a week I think I should see some results whether good or bad by then I would think. time isnt an issue results is what I am after. next grow will be more thought out.  my problem is quality seeds I fear this is even a deeper subject then the grow. I depend on opinions of those that are in the know and have walked the walk. so let the suggestions fly if you want to I can use all the ideas I can get. 

I have quit feeding them through the soil and leaf feed them because I didnt want to screw up the soil. but have learned since not to do that doing flowering! 

will go back to bottle feeding them through the soil and find a cheap way to check the soil. read that the plants will take about as much food as one can give them but havent been socking it to them just one teaspoon per gallon of water but havent been giving them the whole gallon at once, water them when the soil feels dry.

thanks again


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## fleshstain (Dec 3, 2009)

you can't simply "keep them reflowering" if they've already started re-vegging.... hormones have already changed....

since time's not an issue, i think you'd be better of letting them re-veg for a few weeks then switching them back to 12/12.... it'd also give the, sorry for the term, puny looking one a chance to get some more foliage on her....

be it bag seed or good seed, this could be a great learning experience for you....


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## leastofthese (Dec 4, 2009)

fleshstain said:
			
		

> you can't simply "keep them reflowering" if they've already started re-vegging.... hormones have already changed....
> 
> since time's not an issue, i think you'd be better of letting them re-veg for a few weeks then switching them back to 12/12.... it'd also give the, sorry for the term, puny looking one a chance to get some more foliage on her....
> 
> be it bag seed or good seed, this could be a great learning experience for you....


 
what would hurt letting them go 12/12 for a week and see what happens, they have been in a colder climate then where they are now so maybe they could be in sort of a dormant state. does that sound possible?? and how often would one water and feed.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 4, 2009)

Flehstain has a point....how long have they been on 18 hrs of light?  I was under the impression that you had them 12/12 and only had them switched back to 18 for a couple of days..in which case I  think you could switch back to 12/12 no problem, if you have had them on 18 hrs for awhile, and are starting to get crazy growth single bladed twisted leaves etc then it has been long enough to actually start to re-veg...in which case he is right you should let them fully revert back or they are just going to be a stressed mess.  I still think it is an expensive way to learn a lesson by re-veging bag seed.

Honestly if this is the case (IF IT WERE ME) I would pitch them and start over, you'll be in the same place in a month to a month and 1/2 with plants that have not been all stressed out.  I don't like to re-veg though so I'm probably a little biased on that...to me it is a waste of time...I would just grow new seeds...but that is me...if you have the patience go for it.

Oh and the best advice I can give ya is next time research everything before you germinate a seed.


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## Gagneezy (Dec 4, 2009)

Order urself some new seeds fo show and just start from scratch! But you should definately educate yourself on light cycles and shiot because that is the most important thing for your plant. Also when your flowering under 12/12do not disturb their dark time at all it should be completely dark. And veg time can vary 24/0 - 18/6 - 16/8 and the best of all 12/12 with one hour of light in the middle of the night. Saves you abit on power and ur plants will love it!


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## BBFan (Dec 4, 2009)

Hey guys- just a question...

I've never re-vegged a plant.  By looking at_ leastofthese's _pictures- what are the indicators that she is revegging?


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## fleshstain (Dec 4, 2009)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey guys- just a question...
> 
> I've never re-vegged a plant.  By looking at_ leastofthese's _pictures- what are the indicators that she is revegging?



the lack of flower production and the increase in foliage production....


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## fleshstain (Dec 4, 2009)

Gagneezy said:
			
		

> Order urself some new seeds fo show and just start from scratch! But you should definately educate yourself on light cycles and shiot because that is the most important thing for your plant. Also when your flowering under 12/12do not disturb their dark time at all it should be completely dark. And veg time can vary 24/0 - 18/6 - 16/8 *and the best of all 12/12 with one hour of light in the middle of the night. Saves you abit on power and ur plants will love it!*



that seems like a pretty off the wall statement to me.... i can't figure out if he's serious or not?

anybody else heard of this one?


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## leafminer (Dec 4, 2009)

When you see bud starting these strange-looking twisted single leaves coming out the top, that's reveg. 
I see a lot of conflicting opinions here.
If this were my grow I would:
1) Toss out the bare plant that's got hardly any canopy.
2) Switch the lights to 12/12 immediately and let them finish, get some smoke off them. Probably pause 10 days and then flower out in another 6 weeks or so.
3) Get some good genetics (seed) and start another grow immediately.
That should cover all the bases, yes?


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## nouvellechef (Dec 4, 2009)

Cut down, clean room, get clones/order seeds, start fresh, grow lots
of bud. End thread


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## leastofthese (Dec 4, 2009)

thanks excellent advice by all.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 4, 2009)

fleshstain said:
			
		

> that seems like a pretty off the wall statement to me.... i can't figure out if he's serious or not?
> 
> anybody else heard of this one?


 
I too hope this statement was a joke...why would you want to interupt your light period with an hour of darkness????


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 4, 2009)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey guys- just a question...
> 
> I've never re-vegged a plant. By looking at_ leastofthese's _pictures- what are the indicators that she is revegging?


 
I did not really notice much that showed me it had been re-veg, that is why I had originally said to flip it back to 12/12.  After looking at the pics again that are showing bud, I could see how the single bladed kind of twisted leaves could look like a re-veg, although I have had this same type of growth in a regular flowering cycle...many of my buds grow single bladed leaves once into heavy flowering.  Basicaly I was going by what was said not the pics.


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## leastofthese (Dec 7, 2009)

so I am giving them a week of 12/12 with more light to see what happens will post before and after pics for opinions after the week. if opinion is still they are re vegging I will go to 24/7 cycle do I feed again? I read that you dont feed during flowering. 

thanks for all the advice


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 7, 2009)

wait you either need to do one or the other, you can't keep flipping them back and forth.  if you put them into flower, then leave them in flower.  if you decide to re-veg, then re-veg until they are totally back into the veg state...but don't flip them again in a week if you don't see what ya want.

I don't know where you heard not to feed in flower, but it is wrong.  You definately need to get a good bloom nute, lower in (N) and higher in (P), depending on the last time you fed them, I like to feed once a week...I can't remember if you were in hydro or not...if you are doing hydro, I'm not the guy to ask, if your in soil, then I would feed them a mild bloom nute, and increase it a little each week until you get the tips of your leaves slightly burned.


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## leastofthese (Dec 8, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> wait you either need to do one or the other, you can't keep flipping them back and forth. if you put them into flower, then leave them in flower. if you decide to re-veg, then re-veg until they are totally back into the veg state...but don't flip them again in a week if you don't see what ya want.
> 
> I don't know where you heard not to feed in flower, but it is wrong. You definately need to get a good bloom nute, lower in (N) and higher in (P), depending on the last time you fed them, I like to feed once a week...I can't remember if you were in hydro or not...if you are doing hydro, I'm not the guy to ask, if your in soil, then I would feed them a mild bloom nute, and increase it a little each week until you get the tips of your leaves slightly burned.


 

I am not flipping them back and forth I have waited tohear what everyone said then decided that putting them in 12/12 for a week and see what happens was the first theing to do. because if they werent in veg state and were just the result of temp light  or food then I surely dont want to put them in a veg state. I have since added more light moved them indoors to a climate controled 72 degrees and will start feeding them again today. coming sunday will be one week of 12/12 but will give it another week of 12/12 with new lights and food. I would think in a week there should be visible change good or bad. I am taking pics today to compare the temp change and three days of more light. you guys make the call. like I said another week of lights temp and food should answer any questions.


I know I am not using the best lights(8 40 watt floresent grow lights) in a 5x3 area, but this is the beginning not the end. as I have noticed here on site every grow is a learning experience and a improvement on past conditions.


thanks for your paitence and help


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## leastofthese (Dec 8, 2009)

these three are from 12/8. temp change,double the lights, and no food.











I am learning my mistakes and am correcting them, will resume feeding and give one more week of all three(feed,double the lights, and temp control) and if no obvious improvement will switch to 24/7 to re-veg them.

again thanks all


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## leastofthese (Dec 8, 2009)

some how messed up the last post these show from the beginning of my post to moving them inside and the above post shows the present.

thanks to all


these two are from 12/3 two days of indoors better temps soil flush and no food.


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## lordhighlama (Dec 8, 2009)

jmo... but now that you have decided to keep with the 12/12 schedule I would not go back to 24/7 again.  They were already re-vegging and to switch them back and forth that many times would surely cause LOTS of stress.  Just keep with 12/12 and flower them out.  again jmo!

good luck!!!


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## leastofthese (Dec 8, 2009)

well I guess I am having more trouble trying to get all these pics on the same page sorry here are the ones from 11/30. these are from one of my first posts.


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## leastofthese (Dec 8, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> jmo... but now that you have decided to keep with the 12/12 schedule I would not go back to 24/7 again. They were already re-vegging and to switch them back and forth that many times would surely cause LOTS of stress. Just keep with 12/12 and flower them out. again jmo!
> 
> good luck!!!


 
I had them on 16/8 for a few weeks them switched them to 12/12 to see if they would come out of the veg mode and start re flowering. if there isnt ay improvment in a week with all the changes I will then switch them to 24/7 they havent been there for over a month. went to 16/8 when they started flowering. am looking for the least stress and best results. never switched them back and forth. went from 24/7 to 16/8 to 12/12. just found this site and was taking the advice of a friend which truned out to be the wrong advice. after a week I will re post pics and go on the advice of the majority since I believe everyone of you are wwwwwaaaaayyyy further down the road on this then I am.

thanks for your time!:doh:


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## lordhighlama (Dec 8, 2009)

I see... again good luck. :aok: I'll check back in on this one in a week then when u post up your update.   :ciao:


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 8, 2009)

got ya!...I think that you will find that they will do good in 12/12 if that is how the lighting shedule went, 24, 18, 12...then you should be fine with letting them finish on 12/12...sorry for the confusion!  Hope all grows well for you!


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## leastofthese (Dec 8, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> got ya!...I think that you will find that they will do good in 12/12 if that is how the lighting shedule went, 24, 18, 12...then you should be fine with letting them finish on 12/12...sorry for the confusion! Hope all grows well for you!


 
no problem I probably didnt explain myself good enough in the beginning. thanks for all the advice!


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## leastofthese (Dec 10, 2009)

ok so since it looks like I may have the flowering problem under control here is a new question. I have 8 4' Fluorescent bulbs going in an area 3x5x8, I am pretty sure from one poster that my lighting isnt good enough at that reply I was only running 4-4' floresents. I doubled that but doubt that my lumens are up there good enough to do a maximum job. I have a 400 watt metal halide lamp with which is probably a 36k bulb, but from what I am reading that is really only good for vegging. So!

would it be better to run the halied light instead of the 8 Fluorescent bulbs the bulbs are grow bulbs but only put out 1600 lumens each for a whopping 12,800k?

 my thinking is the more lumens the better even though the light might not be premo for flowering it is better then less lumens!


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## lordhighlama (Dec 10, 2009)

yes the more lumens the better, definitely stick the MH in the flower box... can you get the 400w in with the tubes?  That would be ideal.

right now you only have 853.33 lumens per sq ft.  During flower you want to try and achieve 5000 lumens per sq ft.  You need way more lumens in that grow box.  The 400w alone will produce 36000 lumens so that gives you 2400 lumens per sq ft.  Getting better but still not enough.  You really need to get the MH bulb in with the tubes.  Still that will only give you 3253.33 lumens per sq ft.  Is there anyway to shrink up the sq ft of the grow space a little bit?  Working with 15 sq ft is alot of floor space


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 10, 2009)

Yeah...you can use the MH all the way through.  Some actually prefer it over the HPS, I don't personally but some do.  You need to hang the MH for sure, the thing with the floro's is that they can't penetrate your canopy the way the MH will.  So that is where lumens get confusing, if you have 10 gazzillion lumens that won't penetrate, they are only feeding the top of your grow.  Like Llama said if you can fit them all in there that would be nice, but if you can't, definately go with the MH.

I had a question for you though about your light cycle, you said you went from 24 to 16 to 12....how long have you had it on 12/12?  Because really there never was a re-veg issue if this is the way you did your lights.  The buds showed after you went to 12/12, and they have been on 12/12 ever since?  correct?  if so then you should be fine, with no stress whatsoever at least from the lights.  Did the re-veg subject at the beginning of this thread only result because members thought it looked revegged?  That is why I commented on you not flipping back and forth because I thought you had already flipped from 12/12 back to a veg light schedule...that would stress them if you kept doing that...I hope I'm makeing sense...lol


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## leastofthese (Dec 10, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> yes the more lumens the better, definitely stick the MH in the flower box... can you get the 400w in with the tubes? That would be ideal.
> 
> right now you only have 853.33 lumens per sq ft. During flower you want to try and achieve 5000 lumens per sq ft. You need way more lumens in that grow box. The 400w alone will produce 36000 lumens so that gives you 2400 lumens per sq ft. Getting better but still not enough. You really need to get the MH bulb in with the tubes. Still that will only give you 3253.33 lumens per sq ft. Is there anyway to shrink up the sq ft of the grow space a little bit? Working with 15 sq ft is alot of floor space


 

my 4' lights barely fit in there so without taking the 4-48' lights out and just going with the MH light only, no way. the two plants I have are in five gallon buckets I could probably get them in a 3x3 space with just the MH light. that is probably the way I should go dont you think? that would give me only 9sqft and that ought to up the lumens per sqft.. I probably have another month or so of flowering.

thanks again for all the help


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## leastofthese (Dec 10, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Yeah...you can use the MH all the way through. Some actually prefer it over the HPS, I don't personally but some do. You need to hang the MH for sure, the thing with the floro's is that they can't penetrate your canopy the way the MH will. So that is where lumens get confusing, if you have 10 gazzillion lumens that won't penetrate, they are only feeding the top of your grow. Like Llama said if you can fit them all in there that would be nice, but if you can't, definately go with the MH.
> 
> I had a question for you though about your light cycle, you said you went from 24 to 16 to 12....how long have you had it on 12/12? Because really there never was a re-veg issue if this is the way you did your lights. The buds showed after you went to 12/12, and they have been on 12/12 ever since? correct? if so then you should be fine, with no stress whatsoever at least from the lights. Did the re-veg subject at the beginning of this thread only result because members thought it looked revegged? That is why I commented on you not flipping back and forth because I thought you had already flipped from 12/12 back to a veg light schedule...that would stress them if you kept doing that...I hope I'm makeing sense...lol


 
ok on the lights I will probably make the grow box smaller I think I can get it to 3x3 but without the Fluorescents. 

as for the grow cycle it was 24/7 then 16/8 when they started flowering bad info made me leave them at 16/8 for the first few weeks. I didnt change them to 12/12 until about 10 days ago. still I dont have the right lighting yet and didnt start feeding them until yesterday because of bad info. hopefully if I change the box to 3x3 and use the MH light and keep feeding them once a week things ought to pick up some.  tell me do you water between feedings?

thanks again for all the help.


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## lordhighlama (Dec 10, 2009)

9sqft is much better than trying to light 15 with that light.  You'll be looking at 4000 lumens per sqft that is not to bad.  I would put the 400w in and shrink up the space.  

As for feeding your rite about the feedings,, try to feed once a week.  If your plant is thirsty between feedings then just give them ph'ed water.  You'll be able to see if they are getting thirsty!


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 10, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> 9sqft is much better than trying to light 15 with that light. You'll be looking at 4000 lumens per sqft that is not to bad. I would put the 400w in and shrink up the space.
> 
> As for feeding your rite about the feedings,, try to feed once a week. If your plant is thirsty between feedings then just give them ph'ed water. You'll be able to see if they are getting thirsty!


 
:yeahthat:   That is weird that they stared flowering under 16 hrs of light, maybe that is the reason for the funny growth.  I wonder if it was just enough to start them to flower, and just a little over to confuse them...I have never tried a 16 hr light schedule though...wierd.  Anyway now that we are past that little piece of bad advice...on to the next...you live and learn.  I would do what Llama said.  yes if my plants get too dry between feedings I water with plain ph'd water.  I think you will have good results with the MH...you may suprise yourself.  Alot better than the floro's.


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## leastofthese (Dec 10, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> 9sqft is much better than trying to light 15 with that light. You'll be looking at 4000 lumens per sqft that is not to bad. I would put the 400w in and shrink up the space.
> 
> As for feeding your rite about the feedings,, try to feed once a week. If your plant is thirsty between feedings then just give them ph'ed water. You'll be able to see if they are getting thirsty!


 
i could probably put the flors vertical but then may run into a power problem so for now will just go with the MH. any suggestion on a ph meter, at local stores or are they mostly mail order. got the scope from radio shack but then I doubt they carry ph meters!

thanks


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 10, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> :yeahthat:   That is weird that they stared flowering under 16 hrs of light, maybe that is the reason for the funny growth.  I wonder if it was just enough to start them to flower, and just a little over to confuse them...I have never tried a 16 hr light schedule though...wierd.  Anyway now that we are past that little piece of bad advice...on to the next...you live and learn.  I would do what Llama said.  yes if my plants get too dry between feedings I water with plain ph'd water.  I think you will have good results with the MH...you may suprise yourself.  Alot better than the floro's.



I doubt that the plant actually started flowering under a 16/8 light regime.  It was most likely simply preflowers.  I would be very concerned with hermies with all the different light schedules these plants have had.


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## leastofthese (Dec 10, 2009)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I doubt that the plant actually started flowering under a 16/8 light regime. It was most likely simply preflowers. I would be very concerned with hermies with all the different light schedules these plants have had.


 
cool light thanks for the ideas. like I said they were 24/7 since they broke grownd a friend told me to make them flower they had to be at least 16/8 so that is what they were at for about a month Id say, then they started showing flowering (or what I thought was flowering) I didnt move them to 12/12 till about 10 days ago. but then I had the lighting wrong, the temp was low, I read to not to feed during flowering so for them to still be alive I feel blessed!

I have learned alot in my short time here and you people have saved me alot of trouble. 

my next grow I hope will be quality seeds, that will be another question down the road, I feel opinions on the seed subject is critical since someone already buying from a source is better then a hit and miss approach.


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## leastofthese (Dec 10, 2009)

:holysheep:  I put the mh up and it sure looked like they were doing the wave to me!!!!!:woohoo:


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 11, 2009)

LOL...yeah they are going to love that.  We already covered the possability of hermi's right?  When we were talking about the lights at the beginning of the thread.  I think you will be allright because you didn't go back and forth it was more like a gradual less light thing...and those pics at the beginning of the thread are certainly more than pre-flowers...they were budding.

Anyway, if we didn't cover hermi's, your definately going to want to keep a close eye on them for pollen sacks...look online for all the pics you can of different hermi's so you get an idea of what you are looking for.  You run the risk of hermi's when you don't know what your genetics are anyway, hell even when you do know the genetics it's a good idea to keep a close eye on them.  Your plants are gonna thank you for the light!  PM me if you ever have a question and you don't feel like posting it...I'm laid off and way too bored anyway.  Good Luck!

Do you have a hydro store in your area?  If not, I would just order one online, Hanna makes a nice pen type tester for around 40-45 bucks.


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## leastofthese (Dec 14, 2009)

here are a few pic of the last few days with the growroom shrunk down to 3x3 my MH light and feeding them again. just read about feeding during flowering so got some 15/30/15 food the best I could find on short notice and is waaayyy better then what I was using. got a ph/moisture meter and the ph is 6.7 to 6.9 so I hope they are on their way! that first pic is one I dusted with some male pollen just that one stem has the pods which I believe to be seeds. some of you have talked about hermie?? looked at some pics but couldnt tell. expecting them to really take off with the new food, and have estimated they have been flowering foe about two weeks.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 14, 2009)

They look good and healthy bud!  I will be sending you a pm later tonight or tommorrow.  Hope all is well for you!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 15, 2009)

Your new food is not a good food to use for flowering.  You cannot just go out and pick up any old food you find at HD or Lowes.  You need something with very little N for flowering.  The pH moisture meter combinations do not work and IMO are worse than nothing, because you believe that you are getting a good pH reading, but you are not.  Either return it or throw it away and get a real pH meter.  IMO, they should not even sell those cheap combo units as they NEVER work correctly.

Quit taking advise from your "friend".


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## Super Skunk (Dec 15, 2009)

No kidding 2 years ago I burned an entire grow with one of those PH/ moisture instruments. I just use plain ol' litmus paper. Every time I buy a good digital PH meter it just falls out of my shirt pocket, usually in my water! As far as nutes go, there are places online that you can buy nutes that are made for our type of gardening. It is much cheaper over time to get those before a grow. They will pay for themselves after the first grow. If you search on here you can see what others use. Look at some of there plants in the gallery, this should give you a really good idea of what you need. Most of the people on here have no problem giving up some of there growing wisdom to other members. But for gods sake do as the Hemp Goddess said throw that meter away! They can and will cost you a crop!


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## lordhighlama (Dec 15, 2009)

when I first started out I did the same thing leastofthese and got duped into purchasing one of those combo ph moisture meters.  Realized quickly it was completely worthless.  

But just the other day I was able to use it as a probe to remove some lint from my outdoor dryer duct so that the louver would close again.  

Yay looks like it did come in handy after all.  lol


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## leastofthese (Dec 15, 2009)

Super Skunk said:
			
		

> No kidding 2 years ago I burned an entire grow with one of those PH/ moisture instruments. I just use plain ol' litmus paper. Every time I buy a good digital PH meter it just falls out of my shirt pocket, usually in my water! As far as nutes go, there are places online that you can buy nutes that are made for our type of gardening. It is much cheaper over time to get those before a grow. They will pay for themselves after the first grow. If you search on here you can see what others use. Look at some of there plants in the gallery, this should give you a really good idea of what you need. Most of the people on here have no problem giving up some of there growing wisdom to other members. But for gods sake do as the Hemp Goddess said throw that meter away! They can and will cost you a crop!


 
ok thanks for the advice I thought the price was to good to be true! Ill just get some litmus paper, where do you get that anyway? was reading about light height last night and figured I better move the light up some had it about 3 inches off the top didnt see any damage but the poster advised the other guy to move his about 8 inches away so that is what I did. I am going to have problems sooner then later, my MH light is an old warehouse light and is about 18 inches from the ceiling and am almost there so if my plants dont grow any higher then about 8 inches higher I will be ok. 

thanks again


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## BBFan (Dec 15, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> when I first started out I did the same thing leastofthese and got duped into purchasing one of those combo ph moisture meters. Realized quickly it was completely worthless.
> 
> But just the other day I was able to use it as a probe to remove some lint from my outdoor dryer duct so that the louver would close again.
> 
> *Yay looks like it did come in handy after all.* lol


 
:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 15, 2009)

The litmus paper is not ideal either, I will find a web address to a cheap digital ph meter that will be more what you are looking for.  Sorry I was really busy lastnoght, and really did not pay attention to your post, other than looking at the pic real quick.  You want your light at least 8 inches, you may even need it farther if it is too hot, hold your hand ontop of the plants for 1 min, if your hand gets too hot, then the light is too close.  Some of us can get away with haveing the light 8" away because we have air cooled hoods, is that what you have?

As far as the nutes go, that is my fault, I told him it was better than NOTHING, or VEG Nutes.  So I told him to get something that was higher in P, because he needed to be feeding them something.  He has no hydro stores around him.  I figured MG, or something available that had a higher (P) than (N) was better than nothing.  True it is not optimal, but he needs to get through this one, and his next grow will be dialed in a little better.

I'm sorry if you misunderstood what I meant about the ph meter...maybe I wasn't clear enough, those moisture meters are junk, I will see what I can dig up for you for a website.


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## lordhighlama (Dec 15, 2009)

a good website that I have used and recommended to other members here is hXXp://www.eseasongear.com/ replace the XX with TT

They have very reasonable prices and a great selection of meters.


EDIT:

This is the meter I use and it is on sale right now...  hXXp://www.eseasongear.com/miphwaphte1.html

Great meter and is very accurate.


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## leastofthese (Dec 15, 2009)

Super Skunk said:
			
		

> No kidding 2 years ago I burned an entire grow with one of those PH/ moisture instruments. I just use plain ol' litmus paper. Every time I buy a good digital PH meter it just falls out of my shirt pocket, usually in my water! As far as nutes go, there are places online that you can buy nutes that are made for our type of gardening. It is much cheaper over time to get those before a grow. They will pay for themselves after the first grow. If you search on here you can see what others use. Look at some of there plants in the gallery, this should give you a really good idea of what you need. Most of the people on here have no problem giving up some of there growing wisdom to other members. But for gods sake do as the Hemp Goddess said throw that meter away! They can and will cost you a crop!


 
so how do you use the litmus paper I got some just to cross reference the two till I can get a better meter.

would you say that the top pic is producing seeds? it is the only one I dusted and is the only one on the plant that is putting on what I believe are seeds.


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## leastofthese (Dec 15, 2009)

no worries got on the www and found a procedure really cant tell that well so I will do it again to see what I can come up with looks like it is around 6. how low do I let it get before I need to flush the soil with pure water?


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 15, 2009)

I can't tell if there are seeds or not, I can't get the pictures to get bigger, to get a good look.

When I have done breedings, I usually leave seeded plants go until the seed acyualy splits the calyx, or until you can here them rattling in there.

I told you about getting flamed for the nute...lol

I've never used the strips, so i couldn't tell ya...they come with directions don't they?  I would imagine  mix your nutes with water, and then dip the strip, and compare the color to a chart, but I'm guessing.  More importantly is checking your run-off water that comes out the bottom of your pots drainage holes, that will give you a close idea to what your plants are sitting in right now.  But you really need to order a good meter, then you'll know to the hundreth where you are with the strips you will be getting a rough estimate, and with the moisture/ph tester even a rougher one.


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## leastofthese (Dec 15, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I can't tell if there are seeds or not, I can't get the pictures to get bigger, to get a good look.
> 
> When I have done breedings, I usually leave seeded plants go until the seed acyualy splits the calyx, or until you can here them rattling in there.
> 
> ...


 

I told you about getting flamed for the nute...lol????

I found a procedure for checking the soil you take a tablespoon of soil and mix it with a cap of distilled water to a milk shake slurry let it set for a hour then drop you strip in it for a minute then rinse with distilled water..:hairpull:  there wasnt a brown shade on the paper so the closest it was, was about 6 on the old ph scale. the meter reads around 6.5 the plants dont look bad or anything (no yellowing)just thought it would be best to keep an eye on the soil. I only used fish fert and after reading it the content was about 5/1/1 which was just stupid on my part. I did alot of leaf feeding as not to get the soil to acidict which may be why the plants are as pretty as some of the others that I have seen. but what the heck if you cop a buzz and have some stash isnt that the whole idea of this?? 

I went ahead and got some MG that is 15/30/15 no matter what anybody says the plants have to like that better then what they were getting. they were getting a bologna sandwich without the bologna before so they ought to be estatic getting some good stuff. not the best but like you said this is a learning grow, I'll will strive for perfection on the next grow! must be doing something right the grow room has that oh yeay !! smell !! :hubba: 

I have a few questions on lights lumens to be specfic so will talk to you later. wasnt on much this weekend had some nice weather and took the old motorcycle out for a spin.


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## Super Skunk (Dec 16, 2009)

Okay here is my deal. I grow my mother plants in a mixture of perlite and mushroom compost. In order for me to determine the PH of the growing medium I use a very simpe and cheap method. I use only distilled water, just a small amount in a medicine cup, I then mix the soil to form a slurry. I dip the end of a short piece of litmus paper into the solution, count to 5, and remove. I wait about a minute, then compare the color to the chart on the paper.To be completely honest the PH for MJ does not have to be exact, this is a very tough and reselient plant and can actually thrive in most conditions. I have found litmus paper on e-bay real cheap, or you can obtain it from any science store. Now the only reason I use litmus paper is because I always seem to either drop my meters and break them, something always happens to them. If you do use a meter, make sure to always clean with distilled water after each use. A meter that has not been propery cleaned and taken care of is worthless. The main thing that I have learned in growing, is it is not rocket science. If you keep it simple they will grow. Thats why I use litmus paper. 
Now for my clones I use stright silica sand that is cleaned. Dip em in root hormone stick em in the sand and water. Works like a champ! My dad has used this method since the late 50's, and it has been kinda passed down. Once the rooting starts I wash the sand away with my water that I feed with. (I also check that with paper) I then transfer them into periite. I let those little darlings grow until they are full grown ladies. I use a total of 3, 4' flourecent lights. I use a warm light as well as a plant light in each light fixture. These lights are on 24-7. When they are ready to bud, I first get all the nutes mixed and toss a piece of litmus paper into the resivor. I then have 2, 600w HPS light set on a 12/12 cycle. I used to keep those lights about a foot or better from the tops, but There is an article it the DIY section that enables me to now get my light right down on the canopy. This uses a cylindrical pyrex globe that I put into the ventilation system. Then I sit in my rockin' chair and wait for the trycs to turn just the perfect shade. For this I have a cheap microscope that you would find in a childs science kit. Easy as pie. I only use Flora series nutes, Micro/Grow/Bloom. There are really alot better nutes on the market, that is just what I use, it is sold at the local feed store here. I keep it between 82 and 86 degrees year round And I rotate every month. This keeps me in fresh herb year round.
  Alot of people on this site has helped me to produce ALOT bigger yields using the same amount of energy, And to top it off I now grow a higher quality MJ. I just don't do the meter thing. I will get two or three of them for christmas and I bet one of them if not both of them will be in the trash not working within 2 months. It will no doubt be my own fault, so I buy cheap litmus paper that seems to outlive my meters. It's time to toke!


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## leastofthese (Dec 16, 2009)

Super Skunk said:
			
		

> Okay here is my deal. I grow my mother plants in a mixture of perlite and mushroom compost. In order for me to determine the PH of the growing medium I use a very simpe and cheap method. I use only distilled water, just a small amount in a medicine cup, I then mix the soil to form a slurry. I dip the end of a short piece of litmus paper into the solution, count to 5, and remove. I wait about a minute, then compare the color to the chart on the paper.To be completely honest the PH for MJ does not have to be exact, this is a very tough and reselient plant and can actually thrive in most conditions. I have found litmus paper on e-bay real cheap, or you can obtain it from any science store. Now the only reason I use litmus paper is because I always seem to either drop my meters and break them, something always happens to them. If you do use a meter, make sure to always clean with distilled water after each use. A meter that has not been propery cleaned and taken care of is worthless. The main thing that I have learned in growing, is it is not rocket science. If you keep it simple they will grow. Thats why I use litmus paper.
> Now for my clones I use stright silica sand that is cleaned. Dip em in root hormone stick em in the sand and water. Works like a champ! My dad has used this method since the late 50's, and it has been kinda passed down. Once the rooting starts I wash the sand away with my water that I feed with. (I also check that with paper) I then transfer them into periite. I let those little darlings grow until they are full grown ladies. I use a total of 3, 4' flourecent lights. I use a warm light as well as a plant light in each light fixture. These lights are on 24-7. When they are ready to bud, I first get all the nutes mixed and toss a piece of litmus paper into the resivor. I then have 2, 600w HPS light set on a 12/12 cycle. I used to keep those lights about a foot or better from the tops, but There is an article it the DIY section that enables me to now get my light right down on the canopy. This uses a cylindrical pyrex globe that I put into the ventilation system. Then I sit in my rockin' chair and wait for the trycs to turn just the perfect shade. For this I have a cheap microscope that you would find in a childs science kit. Easy as pie. I only use Flora series nutes, Micro/Grow/Bloom. There are really alot better nutes on the market, that is just what I use, it is sold at the local feed store here. I keep it between 82 and 86 degrees year round And I rotate every month. This keeps me in fresh herb year round.
> Alot of people on this site has helped me to produce ALOT bigger yields using the same amount of energy, And to top it off I now grow a higher quality MJ. I just don't do the meter thing. I will get two or three of them for christmas and I bet one of them if not both of them will be in the trash not working within 2 months. It will no doubt be my own fault, so I buy cheap litmus paper that seems to outlive my meters. It's time to toke!


 
thanks sounds pretty simple and for me the simpler the better. my plants are doing good now I might have an issue with the temp the hood on my MH light started getting loose from bumping it when I am checking the progress of the plant so instean of it falling off the next time I bumped it I took it off and made a sheild out of foil, with out it alot of light escapes off the plants, my temp about 7 or 8 inches below the bottom of the light bulb is around 91. I can hold my hand and it isnt uncomfortable but read the growers guide and it says not to go above 95 and I dont have much wiggle room there if my fan goes out or something happens.  I am trying to vent some cooler air in with out much success.. the temp halfway down the plant is around 84 or 85. I put two of my two buble flors back in and maybe that brought the temp up some the bulbs arent hot but the ballasts probably get warm and bring it up a few degs.


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## lordhighlama (Dec 16, 2009)

even in the mid 80's is a bit warm leastofthese.  You should really try and get those temps down into the mid 70's for optimal growing temps.  

You say you took the hood off of your MH... what type of hood had you been using?  Seems strange, most are screwed onto the socket.  91 at the canopy seems very hot, I would suspect you will notice some heat stress from that.


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## leastofthese (Dec 16, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> even in the mid 80's is a bit warm leastofthese. You should really try and get those temps down into the mid 70's for optimal growing temps.
> 
> You say you took the hood off of your MH... what type of hood had you been using? Seems strange, most are screwed onto the socket. 91 at the canopy seems very hot, I would suspect you will notice some heat stress from that.


 
the light was an old warehouse light and had this big round dome liking hood that was clear. it was screwed into the base of the ballast but was held on by a cheesey bracket on two sides with some 5/16 screws not doing their job probably not because of their design but because my girth in a 3x3 grow box looks like a skin on a brautwurst!  bumping is usually going on!  
my concern was the thing falling off on the plants and me loosing my mind becaues I didnt do anything!  the temp is down to 87, 7 or 8 inches below the bulb so the fan adjustment helped. if needed I can put another fan on the floor. right now I have a fan at the top of the plants blowing towards the ceiling to move the hot air away and out of the top of the grow box. I read the guide in the newbie post and it said 95 deg was taboo between, but 80-85 was best but that with co2 90 was best!

If I am sitting at 87 at the top half way down or at the dirt its in the low 80s..


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 16, 2009)

higher temps are okay with CO2, but you don't have that...you do really need to try and get those temps down.  Low to mid 70's is optimal, but you can get away with high 70's.  I start freaking, and moving fans increasing ventilation moving lights back...whatever I can do to drop the temp once they get in the 80's.  If I had to choose between the extra light of the floros, or getting my temps down, I would get my temps down, because your 400 is enough light for your size grow.  Heat is another one of the stresses that bring on hermi's.


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## BBFan (Dec 17, 2009)

Temperature is critical to plant growth.  Photosynthesis creates energy for the plant to do it's life functions.  5% of that energy goes to cellular growth with the rest being used by other functions.

Respiration is a critical process for a plant.  A large portion of it's energy is spent on it.  For most plants, when temperatures get above 80 degrees F (27 C), the plant must spend more energy on respiration.  There is a point where growth actually ceases as there are no sugars available for growth.  Too hot for a prolonged period will actually lead to negative growth:  ie- death, as the plant feeds on itself for the energy it needs.

For growth to occur, photosynthesis must exceed respiration.  This is not opinion, but rather scientific fact that has been verified with all types of plants.  Google "plant respiration temperature" and you will find plenty of resources.

Get a fan up at canopy level to exhaust the heat that is building up around your light and draw cooler air up through your plants.

Good luck to you.


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 17, 2009)

Thanks BB....I always appriciate it when you come through with the scientific lingo...I know heat is bad, but I'm not able to say why in the way you do it...finesse...Thanks man!


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## leastofthese (Dec 17, 2009)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Temperature is critical to plant growth. Photosynthesis creates energy for the plant to do it's life functions. 5% of that energy goes to cellular growth with the rest being used by other functions.
> 
> Respiration is a critical process for a plant. A large portion of it's energy is spent on it. For most plants, when temperatures get above 80 degrees F (27 C), the plant must spend more energy on respiration. There is a point where growth actually ceases as there are no sugars available for growth. Too hot for a prolonged period will actually lead to negative growth: ie- death, as the plant feeds on itself for the energy it needs.
> 
> ...


 
did as you said got the fan down at the canopy level and put another at the top to exhaust the heat that builds up itis down to 77deg probably will get a little lower hasnt been fixed long. did as legalize_freedom said and took the two flors out but if the temp stays down I will probably put them back in and watch if they dont raise the temp they will have to help. one cant have to many lumens can they?/

thanks for the help you guys have saved my 1st grow so all the credit goes to the site and its posters!!!:woohoo:


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## leastofthese (Dec 17, 2009)

must be doing something right went to check the soil ph and found a bunch of tiny coppertone bottles and sunglasses so I guess it was to hot for them. I wish they would just say something it would make it alot easier!!!


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 17, 2009)

LMAO @ sunglasses


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## leastofthese (Dec 17, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> LMAO @ sunglasses


 
if you think that was funny I went back later to check the temp and(men in black ref) could have swore "I heard all hail L"!!


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## BBFan (Dec 18, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> one cant have to many lumens can they?/


 
Not in my opinion!

Glad things are working out for you _leastofthese_!  Keep it green and happy growing!


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

well I can see the importance of the old grow journal now. I guess I will consider the flowering starting when I moved them inside on oct.30th. and switched them from 16/8 to 12/12 that would make them about in the start of their 8th weeks into flowering. know knowing the genetics of the seeds and are what most consider (bag seed) which I presume is something off the street I have no idea what they should look like.

here are a few pics maybe some of you can tell me what I am holding here. I took a sample yesterday and am drying it for testing.  I have read alot on site and my head is banging!! so much to absorb so many things I did wrong, but! their still alive and turning into something. have learned alot for the first time. now not having a grow journal or being sure what they look like when they start flowering the 8 weeks in my be a bit much, not sure so am not sure how long to let them grow, read the longer they grow the weaker the thc levels get. got a scope looking through that thing is like walking around with binoculars on, but the best I can tell the little white hairs are clear and a few of them are amber color but not to many of them. any help will be appreciated!:holysheep: 

thanks for the advice!


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm confused again leastofthese... in an earlier post u said that u switched to 12/12 at the first part of december.  Now your telling us you flipped to 12/12 on Oct 30???  But then you also said that you flipped back to 24hrs after you brought them inside.  But you also said that you have only gone from 24hr to 16/8 to 12/12.

Alot of contradicting posts going on in here my friend.  Gotta tell us what the real story is before we can give you any clue as to where your at.

I can tell you though those plants look nowhere near a plant at 8wks flowering.  Also you don't want to look at the pistels (sp) with the scope you want to look at the trics.  By looking at those pics you have very little tric production at this point.  Long ways to go still IMO!

The pistels tell you nothing, them turning brown has nothing to do with when you harvest.


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> like I said they were 24/7 since they broke grownd a friend told me to make them flower they had to be at least 16/8 so that is what they were at for about a month Id say, then they started showing flowering (or what I thought was flowering) I didnt move them to 12/12 till about 10 days ago.


 
you wrote this on december December 10th... so you said here you switched to 12/12 on the 1st of december.


edit: ok,, went back a ways in your thread I see now what your saying about Oct. 30  That was when you flipped them to 16/8 correct?  This is not when you started flowering, 16/8 won't flower a plant.  It seems that it causes very strange growth yes but not flowering.  You started flowering at the beginning of December.  So you've been at it for just over 3wks.

That is about where I would say your plants are development wise as well.  Again still a ways to go before even thinking of checking trics.


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> I'm confused again leastofthese... in an earlier post u said that u switched to 12/12 at the first part of december. Now your telling us you flipped to 12/12 on Oct 30??? But then you also said that you flipped back to 24hrs after you brought them inside. But you also said that you have only gone from 24hr to 16/8 to 12/12.
> 
> Alot of contradicting posts going on in here my friend. Gotta tell us what the real story is before we can give you any clue as to where your at.
> 
> ...


 
I apolige for my lack of communication skills. they were out in an outbuilding until oct 30th in that period they started out on 24/7 a friend advised me to switch them to 16/8 and they would show male or female which they did. it started getting cold so on oct 30 I moved them inside and switched them to 12/12 which is what they have been on since then. hae had a few issues witht he lights and have been on MH 400 watt a majority of that time. didn feed them until I moved them in got bad advice on that one so started feeding them a 15-30-15 local food from the old hardware store best I could do on short notice have been feeding them when the ground gets cracked and dry looking. checking the ph with a worthless meter I have been told and ph paper ph is around 6-6.5.  well there is the fact brother sorry for the confusion my fault.

thanks again


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> you wrote this on december December 10th... so you said here you switched to 12/12 on the 1st of december.


 
like I said sorry for my lack of communciation skills totally my fault. If your right thats great that they have a long way to go. now what was it you said I need to look at under the scope? trics.??
I am glad I have a ways to go I was beginning to think I might have stressed them to the point that I might have retarded them where they wouldnt grow to their fullest under the conditions. I guess the major thing that worried me was the temp but they didnt get below 55deg so hopefully I didnt do to much damage. one thing though they sure do smell!!  thats a good thing right??


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> like I said sorry for my lack of communciation skills totally my fault. If your right thats great that they have a long way to go. now what was it you said I need to look at under the scope?


 
check back on my edit... I figured out what you meant by the oct. Oct.30 comment.  I was confused for a minute.  Nothing to look at under the scope yet.


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> check back on my edit... I figured out what you meant by the oct. Oct.30 comment. I was confused for a minute. Nothing to look at under the scope yet.


 
tics??? so how far into flowering do you think they are? will get back later nice day before the big storm go to go ride the old scooter!:hubba:


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> tics??? so how far into flowering do you think they are? will get back later nice day before the big storm go to go ride the old scooter!:hubba:


 


time to read up...  

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1938

I think your 3wks along... only because thats how long they've been flowering.     Have fun on the Hog!!!


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 21, 2009)

I would agree with Llama...they look to be only a few weeks into flower.  When he was talking about trics, he means the little crystals that you will see if they are not there yet, that is fine, but they will start showing soon if not already.  There will be small crystals all over the buds, and maybe some of the leaves in the bud.  You need to start watching the crystals (trichomes) with your magnifying lense.  They will start out clear, and over a short time they will switch to cloudy looking, and then ripen into amber...for your wifes pain, I would suggest letting them get between 30 to 50% amber colored, as she is using it more for relaxing and pain.  The lower the amount of amber trics the more of a head high, and the higher amount of amber trics, the more of a couch lock type high will be felt...once they go from clear to cloudy you need to keep a good eye on them, because they can sometimes go from cloudy to amber really quick...I didn't click on the link that Llama put up, but I'm assuming it is an article, or thread on trics...I need to PM you that info to man...sorry I haven't done that yet.

Wish the weather was nice enough to break my scoot out...lol...if my buddies I ride with heard me say that I would catch all kinds of heck...lol pansy yass...etc etc


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

yep lf, that's a link to one of the stickies on trics... very good read for leastofthese when he gets a chance!


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

lordhighlama said:
			
		

> time to read up...
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1938
> 
> I think your 3wks along... only because thats how long they've been flowering.  Have fun on the Hog!!!


 
will do thanks for the link! read my next post I have a question for all opinions on lighting.
thanks again


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I would agree with Llama...they look to be only a few weeks into flower. When he was talking about trics, he means the little crystals that you will see if they are not there yet, that is fine, but they will start showing soon if not already. There will be small crystals all over the buds, and maybe some of the leaves in the bud. You need to start watching the crystals (trichomes) with your magnifying lense. They will start out clear, and over a short time they will switch to cloudy looking, and then ripen into amber...for your wifes pain, I would suggest letting them get between 30 to 50% amber colored, as she is using it more for relaxing and pain. The lower the amount of amber trics the more of a head high, and the higher amount of amber trics, the more of a couch lock type high will be felt...once they go from clear to cloudy you need to keep a good eye on them, because they can sometimes go from cloudy to amber really quick...I didn't click on the link that Llama put up, but I'm assuming it is an article, or thread on trics...I need to PM you that info to man...sorry I haven't done that yet.
> 
> Wish the weather was nice enough to break my scoot out...lol...if my buddies I ride with heard me say that I would catch all kinds of heck...lol pansy yass...etc etc


 

yeah I bet they would too! well it was in the 50s today and I just couldnt resist! insulated shirt and insulated coat and I was good to go!:woohoo: people though I tell ya they just dont pay attention. it was bad enough them not paying attention before cell phones but its like driving through a mine field now!!! put my foot in more then one door I'll tell ya. dont worry about it you said you wanted to take your time and from the sound of things I have about 5 more weeks if 8 weeks is the tops but I believe some of the stuff out there goes 11 weeks doesnt it??? 

not knowing what I have is a problem so like you said I need to keep a close eye on it. got the seeds given to me was suppose to be pretty fine stuff but the more I read this site the more I believe anything bought on the street has training wheels on it compared to what most of you grow!  that is the club I want into!  read your dr. atomic thread and looked at some seeds and have a few ideas, message me when you get the chance.

thanks again


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

ok heres the deal I was going out to my out building the other day where i used to grow and noticed I had this old street light on the roof for lighting the area. well I havent used it in years, so the old light bulb went off in my headd ! I have read that hps is prefered for flowering so I thought what the heck what if this was an old hps. well it isnt its an old 150 watt mercury light. cant really find anything on them the epa probably banned them anyway. 

but my question is could I put a 150 hps in there and make it work if not how about a mh?? if I could put a hps would it be enough lumens for flowering??

thanks again, and again!


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

oh boy leastofthese... I am by no means capable of answering this one... I can tell you that the mercury light is good for nothing in your grow space, but I have no idea if you can convert the ballast.  Donjones might have an idea for you, might shoot him a PM.


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> will do thanks for the link! read my next post I have a question for all opinions on lighting.
> thanks again


 
great link but after reading I think my brain is bleeding. must have toked one to many in the old days brain just isnt what it used to be. more or less when the little clear lollypop looking things start showing :watchplant:time is getting near!  right??


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## leastofthese (Dec 21, 2009)

ok update!! just checked them out before putting them to bed. checked the small leaves next to the buds and they had little drops of clear whatever you call it but it was for sure what I am looking for, but the looks of it, you hit the date right on the head lordhighlama. 3 weeks looks about right and that makes me  from ear to ear!! I was thinking that the temp drop might have dwarfed them but it must have just slowed them down and the 16/8 light was just enough to show the sex. I hadnt found this site so the only way to tell the sex was to flip the lights, thank the lord I didnt go 12/12 and then flip them back!!

I was concerned I thought the size was small compared to some of the pics I have seen in the gallery. I know therre are different sizes of colas but knowing they are just babies eases my mind!

thanks again well mnf is on and its time to set back have cold one and watch these guys try and break each others legs!! :yay:


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

close... when the little clear lollypop things  "trics" turn from clear to cloudy time is getting near!


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## lordhighlama (Dec 21, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> ok update!! just checked them out before putting them to bed. checked the small leaves next to the buds and they had little drops of clear whatever you call it but it was for sure what I am looking for, but the looks of it, you hit the date right on the head lordhighlama. 3 weeks looks about right and that makes me  from ear to ear!! I was thinking that the temp drop might have dwarfed them but it must have just slowed them down and the 16/8 light was just enough to show the sex. I hadnt found this site so the only way to tell the sex was to flip the lights, thank the lord I didnt go 12/12 and then flip them back!!
> 
> I was concerned I thought the size was small compared to some of the pics I have seen in the gallery. I know therre are different sizes of colas but knowing they are just babies eases my mind!
> 
> thanks again well mnf is on and its time to set back have cold one and watch these guys try and break each others legs!! :yay:


 
good to hear your  from ear to ear... as you should be.  But I'm off as well, already cracked my first cold one and am heading to the couch right now!!!


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 22, 2009)

I quit drinking awhile ago...sometimes a cold one sounds good to me, but then I remember that I drink 20 more (i never had a couple) and end up fighting cops, friends, neighbors....lol...basically I'm an idiot when I drink, not a very good dad or boyfreind, or human being for that matter...so I just don't do it anymore.  man sometimes a cold beer sounds good though...oh well.

I don't think you can use that ballast for a hps...but I'm not sure either Llama was right Don Jones seems to be pretty knowledgable about that stuff.  I do know that the mercury light is useless, but don't know if you can convert it either.  Your 400 should be plenty for what your wanting to do though.  I grew 3 indoor grows with a 400 from veg to harvest and had like 6 plants in a 2' x 3' x 6' area, I had nice tight buds and averaged about 60-80 g/per plant on the atomic northen lights, and about the same on my afghani #1

yes, with bag seed you don't know when it's going to finish, and honestly even when buying these hybrid seeds we use you can't really count on the breeders estimated time....it is exactly that, e-s-t-i-m-a-t-e-d.  But yeah I mean if your turn out to be heavy sativa dominant...hell they can go for 14 weeks.

Also, when you look at all these bud pics...you notice all the crystals all over most of them...the little sparkly deals light bouncing off them...those are the trics we are talking about.  Those when observed under a scope, or even a good magnifying glass (I like a 30x jewelers loop) will start out clear, and then change to cloudy, and then to amber...amber being done...well actually they will turn dark or black after amber, but you don't want them to go that far...then they have degraded.

I'll be getting ahold of you soon.  I was on the hemp depot tonight and noticed that they raised the Dr Atomic seeds from 75 bucks to 90, so if your thinking about his gear, So I will check a few other places that carry his stuff, and see if they have raised also...I saw that KIND SEED was carrying his for 75 still but I have never done business with them, and don't know much about them.  I will check greenmans site though and see if they are rated.  Later...enjoy your frosty ones!


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## BBFan (Dec 22, 2009)

leastofthese said:
			
		

> ok heres the deal I was going out to my out building the other day where i used to grow and noticed I had this old street light on the roof for lighting the area. well I havent used it in years, so the old light bulb went off in my headd ! I have read that hps is prefered for flowering so I thought what the heck what if this was an old hps. well it isnt its an old 150 watt mercury light. cant really find anything on them the epa probably banned them anyway.
> 
> but my question is could I put a 150 hps in there and make it work if not how about a mh?? if I could put a hps would it be enough lumens for flowering??
> 
> thanks again, and again!


 
Hey Leastofthese!

That mercury vapor light really won't do anything for your grow.  And the ballast for those older mercury vapor lights is not the same as a ballast for a hps or mh.  There should be a code on the ballast label- it probably says Hxxx (2 or 3 digits).  A MH ballast would be Mxx and a HPS ballast would be Sxx.  If it's not one of those, don't use it.

Good luck with your crystally ladies!


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## leastofthese (Dec 22, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I quit drinking awhile ago...sometimes a cold one sounds good to me, but then I remember that I drink 20 more (i never had a couple) and end up fighting cops, friends, neighbors....lol...basically I'm an idiot when I drink, not a very good dad or boyfreind, or human being for that matter...so I just don't do it anymore. man sometimes a cold beer sounds good though...oh well.
> 
> I don't think you can use that ballast for a hps...but I'm not sure either Llama was right Don Jones seems to be pretty knowledgable about that stuff. I do know that the mercury light is useless, but don't know if you can convert it either. Your 400 should be plenty for what your wanting to do though. I grew 3 indoor grows with a 400 from veg to harvest and had like 6 plants in a 2' x 3' x 6' area, I had nice tight buds and averaged about 60-80 g/per plant on the atomic northen lights, and about the same on my afghani #1
> 
> ...


 
yeah I know what your talking about in the drinking dept. in the younger day I was all over the place MJ was about the only thing I could do that didnt send me into a out of control state. I buy a 12 pack maybe every two weeks havent been drunk in 25 years gave it up when the kids started coming along. have always been blesses with being able to quit whatever it was I got into did it all from MJ to H was blesses that the monkey never got ahold of me. 

the tics I saw are on the small leaves next to the bud they are not all over the place or very highly populated so that is why I thought lordhighlamas est of three weeks was pretty right on. will probably watch them until they get about 50/50 amber I guess and them do the big chop!! this question I have may de stupid but when harvet is done is the plant also done or can I re-veg it and get some clones? what I have read is cloning during flowering isnt a very good idea and is hard to do.

thanks again


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## leastofthese (Dec 22, 2009)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey Leastofthese!
> 
> That mercury vapor light really won't do anything for your grow. And the ballast for those older mercury vapor lights is not the same as a ballast for a hps or mh. There should be a code on the ballast label- it probably says Hxxx (2 or 3 digits). A MH ballast would be Mxx and a HPS ballast would be Sxx. If it's not one of those, don't use it.
> 
> Good luck with your crystally ladies!


 
thanks Ill check it out!


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 22, 2009)

you can reveg if you want, but by then you'll have some high grade seeds, and won't have aneed for those bagseed plants anymore, I mean unless they are just some killer that you have to keep, I wouldn't waste the time.  But yeah you can if you want.  You can clone from flowering plants it's just harder, and takes longer for them to root, and they have to re-veg to, so it's kind of a PITA.  

You have a ways to go b4 you need to watch the trics, I just wasn't sure you knew what we were talking about yet.  What do you have for a bike?  I have a chopped 60 sporty, and a 78 FLH. The sportster I've had since I was 19...dang 20 yrs, and it was my first bike...I'll never sell it, but I rarely ride it.  The FLH is much smoother ride


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## leastofthese (Dec 23, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> you can reveg if you want, but by then you'll have some high grade seeds, and won't have aneed for those bagseed plants anymore, I mean unless they are just some killer that you have to keep, I wouldn't waste the time. But yeah you can if you want. You can clone from flowering plants it's just harder, and takes longer for them to root, and they have to re-veg to, so it's kind of a PITA.
> 
> You have a ways to go b4 you need to watch the trics, I just wasn't sure you knew what we were talking about yet. What do you have for a bike? I have a chopped 60 sporty, and a 78 FLH. The sportster I've had since I was 19...dang 20 yrs, and it was my first bike...I'll never sell it, but I rarely ride it. The FLH is much smoother ride


 
yeah your probably right about the plant if I can score some quality seed It would be a waste of time. have a couple picked out in the dr. atomic line message me when you have the time.

I have a 2000 Yamaha 1100 V star a poor mans harley! I have had several bikes but seems like I have always needed something so ended up selling them. the last thing was the wife wanted a carport so say goodbye to the old goldwing!!  I know the dig on jap bikes but the harley is so out of my price range. besides I got a friend with a 96 fatboy I think thats what its called and he seems to work on it quite a bit. he can only get 80 miles out of a tank and I am getting 140 so that in its self is enough to make me by jap! I am not one of these that need a status symbol or buy american bikes! I would by american if they made an affordable on but there just not out there! shoot I can take my baffels out and sound just like a harley and if I speed by quick enough no one will know the difference until they see me at the stop light!:hubba:


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 23, 2009)

Hey man...I'm not one of them hard core, "I'd rather walk through dog crap barefoot, than ride a jap bike" kind of guys.  I owned a Valkrie for a few yrs 6cy 6 seperate carbs, but got hard up for money, and had to sell it.  Both of my harley's were bought in the late 80's before the prices got out of hand, when all the yuppies and movie stars started riding them.  I traded for the sportster was equivelent to 1200 bucks, and paid 3500 for the FLH...I couldn't afford (or would want) a new one...lol.  My Valykrie was like a caddilac...smooth nice ride, with plenty of power.


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## leastofthese (Dec 24, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> Hey man...I'm not one of them hard core, "I'd rather walk through dog crap barefoot, than ride a jap bike" kind of guys. I owned a Valkrie for a few yrs 6cy 6 seperate carbs, but got hard up for money, and had to sell it. Both of my harley's were bought in the late 80's before the prices got out of hand, when all the yuppies and movie stars started riding them. I traded for the sportster was equivelent to 1200 bucks, and paid 3500 for the FLH...I couldn't afford (or would want) a new one...lol. My Valykrie was like a caddilac...smooth nice ride, with plenty of power.


 
well economics plays the big part in what I ride. I would rather be riding without dog crap on my boot then not riding! my 1100 is plenty quick enough to get me in trouble and as for the harley thing I used to own a 
kz 1000 and a buddie had a new 1983 sportster i dont know if it was because amf was building them back then or what but he had to carry tools and stop every 50 or 60 miles and stop and tighten everything up. we were going down the road one day and his horn just fell off!!!! I guess the moral to that story is dont by a bike from a company that build bowling machines!

everyone has their choices mine just happens to be cheaper like I said economics !


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## legalize_freedom (Dec 24, 2009)

I feel the same way...whatever you got to do to keep your knees in the breeze.  I have some friends that are Mr harley....lol...it's an ego trip for them, I just love to ride..if I could buy a brand new bike I would get a BMW, or a ducati, personaly...but I can't even make a truck payment at the moment...lol...lay offs suck!


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## leastofthese (Dec 24, 2009)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I feel the same way...whatever you got to do to keep your knees in the breeze. I have some friends that are Mr harley....lol...it's an ego trip for them, I just love to ride..if I could buy a brand new bike I would get a BMW, or a ducati, personaly...but I can't even make a truck payment at the moment...lol...lay offs suck!


 

BMW now your talking that would be my choice if I had the doe! who cares about status as long as you can have the wind in your face.


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