# Flush or not?



## solarz (Dec 17, 2008)

Hello MP,
I've been trying to diagnose this, well....not really, i'm pretty certain it is nute burn, but because of the method of grow i'm using (MassP Coco Buckets) i was trying to convince myself that it was anything but nute burn.  

I have this plant in a bucket with amended coco (i added High N guano, High P guano, green sand for K, earthworm castings, and dolomite lime) and perlite.  I was under the impression that even tho the coco is already amended, that you can still 'feed' the plants and the coco will retain what isn't needed, and give what is needed.  So needless to say, i probably gave this girl a good 4 or 5 feedings of flowering nute tea.  

I'm in the 4th week of flowering on this girl and i think that i'm in serious need of a flush, so i was just double checking with the good folks here about that.  So flush or what??  Thanks for the time/advice.

solarz


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## blancolighter (Dec 17, 2008)

Whoa man, thats not nute burn, thats what a phosphorous deficiency looks like. Not to worry though, your leaves are lookin like that cause the buds are taking all the Phosphorous from the leaves to develope. 

You dont need to flush at all, probably would do more harm than good, washing away the nutes (esp phosphorous) your plant still has available. The only thing you might want to do is get some water runoff and PH it. Plants do start looking like your around this time in flowering, but yours does look a bit excessive. See if your runoff water PH is low, which can hinder macro nutrient (the main nutes, nitrogen, pohosphorous and potassium) uptake. 

Hmm looked a bit more at your post, looks like you had dolomite lime in your mix, so your ph prolly isn't off, but it wouldn't hurt to check. You may have used up most of your High P guano in your soil already, so you might want to look into feeding your plant some ferts high in P. 

Bottom line though, your plants will be fine and should make some killer buds, whether you do or don't end up adding a little more P.


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## solarz (Dec 17, 2008)

Well, thats odd, because i was feeding the ish out of her...in addition to what i already amended, and i just knew it was nute burn.  I'm shocked that it is P out of all things, but i will bump up the P on the next feeding and see if that helps.  Thanks for the input.


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## slowmo77 (Dec 17, 2008)

i disagree with some of what blanco said. its never normal for a plants leaves to turn brown and curl up.. the only thing you should see is a lite yellowin towards the end of flowering.. it looks to me like nute burn. sounds like you mixed your soil with nutes pretty good.   

what does the new growth look like.. are the tips of the new growth yellow or look burnt?


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## blancolighter (Dec 17, 2008)

Hey slowmos the man, sorry for the misdiagnosis, I missed the part where you said you fed them a bunch of flowerin tea... I just had a similar looking problem that turned out to be a nute def. 

Anyways, yea give her a good flush and keep us posted on how she's doin. Try a two step flush, gettin the soil good and wet, wait like 20 min, then flush her out, this way really gets rid of extra nutes.


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## solarz (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanks for the replies.  I was just in checking on her, and the new growth is looking good.  its looks relatively normal...green and lush.  Its just the older fan leaves and a few that are up top around the top cola that are looking brown and crispy.  So do yall recommend that i flush her out or just leave her be and continue to finish the grow using straight water and molasses?


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## slowmo77 (Dec 17, 2008)

oh im far from the man.. thats just my opinion and trust me i've been wrong before and will be again. it could be a sever P defi.

wait for a few more replies from other members just to make sure before you do anything..


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## blancolighter (Dec 17, 2008)

I'd say saturate your soil with water, let it sit a little bit, then ad more water till you get some run off and then PH it. Post your Ph and go from there. If your PH is normal, I'd say give your plants a flush. If your Ph is low, you might be getting locklout, like I originally thought, but prolly you're just nute burned like slowmo said. The runoff PH will give you the answers....


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## godspeedsuckah (Dec 18, 2008)

solarz said:
			
		

> Hello MP,
> I've been trying to diagnose this, well....not really, i'm pretty certain it is nute burn, but because of the method of grow i'm using (MassP Coco Buckets) i was trying to convince myself that it was anything but nute burn.
> 
> I have this plant in a bucket with amended coco (i added High N guano, High P guano, green sand for K, earthworm castings, and dolomite lime) and perlite.  I was under the impression that even tho the coco is already amended, that you can still 'feed' the plants and the coco will retain what isn't needed, and give what is needed.  So needless to say, i probably gave this girl a good 4 or 5 feedings of flowering nute tea.
> ...



The problem with coco and the reason why I am not using it again (I am using these hempy buckets also) is that coco eats nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, and sulpher and turns it into potassium. When coco releases nutrients for the plant to use there is no regulated amount, in your coco the plant could be getting way too much or too little of a nutrient and you won't know until it is a mess. I have been adding worm castings to the top of the buckets, watering with RO water (1/8 tsp epsom salts) and avoiding all fertilizers until mine get's under control. I think coco has it's purpose and is a good medium, however, I am going back to soil. I will use the coco in my garden as a mulch.


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## smokingjoe (Dec 18, 2008)

One of the reasons I will never grow in soil.


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## andy52 (Dec 18, 2008)

ditto,in dwc you do not have to guess on what you are giving your plants.its there.


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## solarz (Dec 18, 2008)

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> The problem with coco and the reason why I am not using it again (I am using these hempy buckets also) is that coco eats nitrogen, calcium, magnesium, and sulpher and turns it into potassium. When coco releases nutrients for the plant to use there is no regulated amount, in your coco the plant could be getting way too much or too little of a nutrient and you won't know until it is a mess. I have been adding worm castings to the top of the buckets, watering with RO water (1/8 tsp epsom salts) and avoiding all fertilizers until mine get's under control. I think coco has it's purpose and is a good medium, however, I am going back to soil. I will use the coco in my garden as a mulch.



So would you suggest that i flush...or just do as you do and keep feeding straight water?  I'm still up in the air about which decision to make, because i don't want to do more harm than good by doing the wrong thing.


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## blancolighter (Dec 18, 2008)

Do you have stuff to check your PH, cause what you need to do is just get a little run off water and PH it. 

If your PH is above 6 (well in the 6-7 range), do the flush right away. If it is below 6, raise your PH up and start feeding again.


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## solarz (Dec 18, 2008)

I checked it with a soil ph meter yesterday and it was between 6 and 7.  I'm not sure how accurate it is, because that was my first time using that...but i will test it again tonight after i water and see what i get then.


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## godspeedsuckah (Dec 18, 2008)

Are you using tap water?


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## godspeedsuckah (Dec 18, 2008)

My guess would be that you are lacking in magnesium, sulfur and calcium. Either purchase some calmag to use when you feed your nutrients or use about 1/4tsp of epsom salts with your nutrients. Keep in mind that you need to ph your water after you add your fertilizers and calmag (or epsom salt) and also check the run off to see what is going on with your coco.


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## blancolighter (Dec 18, 2008)

They sell Ph buffer 7.0 at almost any store, its just a few bucks, dip your ph meter in that solution and you'll know how on your ph meter is since that stuff is ph 7 on the dot...


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## slowmo77 (Dec 18, 2008)

im staying with nute burn. i'd flush with ph'd water and give it a plain water for a week after it drys out from the flush.. as long as the new growth is health and the damage doesn't spear any more you got it beat.. if you'd like to see some good info on sick plants look at the 2nd link in my signature.. it has pics of sick plants.. the fourth pic down looks like your plant to me see what you think


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## andy52 (Dec 18, 2008)

I AGREE WITH THE NUTE BURN.THATS ONE REASON I WOULD not USE COCOCOIR


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## Wiseguy_Chef (Dec 18, 2008)

i disagree with u all, its in PH lock up from what i see. it ant geting no nuits from the roots so its eating itself. if it was burt i would think u would see damage on the buds an not just the leafs. JMO. but i would retest. most ph metters need the soil or coco to be wet in order to test.


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## slowmo77 (Dec 18, 2008)

heres a pic of a nute burned leaf.. it looks like your plant to me  but you can tell more about your plant than we can.. pics don't show everything


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## solarz (Dec 18, 2008)

Godspeedsucka,
yes i am using tap water, but i let it sit out for at least 24 hrs (if not more) before adding it to a BIG bin i use to bubble water constantly.  I have a soil ph meter, and it says not to use in water, so i haven't...so i'm not sure what the runoff ph is.

Slowmo,
I agree that it looks like nute burn, and that is what i was thinking all along.  it it does resemble the leaf in the pic a lot.  I am going to flush her out tonight when i make it home, and start her on a regime of strait water and epsom salt.  I haven't feed her any nutes since last tuesday, only straight water.

How accurate are the ph test strips they sale at gardening stores?  Thats about the best thing i will be able to get to test runoff ph.

Thanks for all the help guys.  Still open to any suggestions though.


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## solarz (Dec 19, 2008)

Well, i just took a ph reading from the soil with a soil ph meter and it red 6.5.  So i'm currently flushing it with 10 gals of h2o. I'll check the ph again in the morning before the lights go off and see if the flush helped any. Hopefully this will get things back on track, and from here on out, i'll be sticking to h2o and molasses.


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## godspeedsuckah (Dec 19, 2008)

If you have some worm castings it wouldn't hurt to top dress the plant with them, maybe 1/4" on the surface and water slowly to let it seep in. That will help out with the nitrogen your plant needs and the coco is absorbing. The worm castings are low in nitrogen, should only be 1-0-0 however they do work, build good structure in the coco, and contain other micro elements good for the plants. If you are going to use epsom salts with every watering than I wouldn't use any more than 1/4tsp per gallon. I only use epsom salts when the plant looks like it needs them and then at only 1tsp per gallon followed by straight water the following day.


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## solarz (Dec 19, 2008)

Ok, thanks for the advice, i'll give it a shot.  I flushed it last night and tested the ph and it was a little more than 6.5 after the flush.  Hopefully things will get better for this lady, because she's actually a nice 2 headed monster


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## blancolighter (Dec 19, 2008)

Hey man, whether you figure this thing out or not (looks like you got things under control), you should still get some nice buds, doesn't look like your oplant is gonna hurt beyond losing some fan leaves, whatever the problem is...

No worries!


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## Metro (Dec 19, 2008)

Your PH in coco should be somewhere around 5.5 - 6.2.
Flush, start on a weak nutrient regime, and then water more often with a bit of runoff after each watering at least once or twice a day.


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## Metro (Dec 20, 2008)

smokingjoe said:
			
		

> One of the reasons I will never grow in soil.


 
What does this have to do with this person's coco grow?
Soil is not even close to coco. Different rules.

The problem may stem from the fact that the grower used soil amendments (i.e. LIME).
Do you know why lime is used in soil. It's to raise the PH! You may never get the ph to lower this grow.Coco is inert. You don't need to check the runoff for anything if you start with coco and your nutes. Adjust the ph 5.8. Make sure you have the proper ppm. Don't use epsom salts. Use Cal-Mag + or another cal mag sup. even with tap water.
Think Hydro!!!!!


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## solarz (Dec 21, 2008)

Thanks for all the tips, but on the cal-mag...i only have epsom salts and the cal-mag made for human consumption.  I flushed the bucket and am using straight water and molasses from here on out.  thanks again.

Metro...are you saying that my ph was thrown off by the addition of the lime?


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