# Sopappy's so so grows



## sopappy

I finally found the right thread! I hope my mentors find me here, I've gotten some great help and am making some headway. If you see something amiss, I value your two cents
I have 5 Dark Angel & 5 Blackberry something, half in dirt, half in hydro. I've had such rotten luck with seeds (you suck, Ron Hill, good luck with Ironseedsales.com) that I plant half in dirt as back-ups. This time, everybody's doing okay so far. 

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## sopappy

I have 5 in 4 pots, here's 2 of them, all I 've done so far is a top at the 3rd node and the lower fans. 

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## sopappy

I have two RDWC systems, 2 and 3 buckets with small rez. I don't think I've got this ramp thing down yet at all so I post my readings , so far they're both sitting at 6.1 and 1400 and 1500 ppm 
The smallest one just dropped a few roots in the water, the others are looking great, I didn't want to lift them as I did some LST yesterday and tied down the branches 
I don't think I won't to top anymore 

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## sopappy

10 Azura Haze (12 weeks! what was I thinking?) 
Planted last Tuesday and had to turn on the light this morning 
I only have two of the 6500K bulbs in the fixture. 

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## sopappy

Drinking about .5 L a day each 
Eating a bit too, 10ppm per system, but my ramp is still backwards, 
pH wants to fall, I pH up the refill. 
I don't want it to fall from 6.0 in veg! I deny them the goodies above 6.0 
 I'm thinking I start at 6.3 next reset


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## Grower13

sopappy said:


> Drinking about .5 L a day each
> Eating a bit too, 10ppm per system, but my ramp is still backwards,
> pH wants to fall, I pH up the refill.
> I don't want it to fall from 6.0 in veg! I deny them the goodies above 6.0
> I'm thinking I start at 6.3 next reset


 


my ph ramp is from up to down...... who said that's backwards....... I set my ph at 6.2-6.3 and let it fall through the range to around 5.5....... I topoff the reservoir mostly to reset ph....... do add nutes one time when  topping off during the 2 weeks between water changes.


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## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> my ph ramp is from up to down...... who said that's backwards....... I set my ph at 6.2-6.3 and let it fall through the range to around 5.5....... I topoff the reservoir mostly to reset ph....... do add nutes one time when  topping off during the 2 weeks between water changes.



 The guy with them colourful buds, hello 13.... drop by anytime  
Backwards indeed, sorry about that, yes, there are others here who piped up on that, and thank gawd, I was going nuts. I figured with different nutes, it might change.... but I guess I'm okay with a backwards ramp, some say it's wrong way though (but I appear to be in good company)  resetting later today at 6.3


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## Rosebud

Nice pruning on these.. Greenest of mojo.  Are they a little hungry?


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## sopappy

This time last year I was wrestling with bad seeds from Ironseedsales.com (Ron Hill) in Toronto Canada and it was a nightmare, see "soppappy's ugly babies" I thought it was the coco but I know now it was the seeds, he's a slime ball. Please post about these places, I can't go after this guy without coming out (pardon the expression) <br />

Here's what good seeds from Dano at quebecannabisseeds.com do...
His seeds after day 4 in rapid rooters...
PS... one shipment got "lost" on it's way here and was replaced, good place! 

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## sopappy

Rosebud said:


> Nice pruning on these.. Greenest of mojo.  Are they a little hungry?



 Thanks, Rosebud. I've got HP watching over my shoulder. I'm trying his manifold but I've stopped topping or at least, want to. 
 I am thrilled with what they are doing. I stopped at the I pattern and see two middle branches pointing up now, the thrilling part is the two on each side coming up, they'll fill in the empty space on top of the pot! 
 I'm holding the fans of the branches I'm hoping will fill in the space, there's a branch next to these as well. I want these to be 8 x 1 foot tall fat bastids! 
 hungry? uh oh, I liked that shade of green but I thought I might be on the high side at 1400 and 1500 ppm,
I haven't done my change yet, they are nibbling 10ppm / 12 hours, 
I can dilute. 

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## sopappy

I was taking pictures with the LED off and thought I'd take a peek. <br /> 

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## sopappy

When would you flower these? <br />
(80% sativa strains) I have about 2 feet headroom (I want 8 jumbo hotdogs per plant!)
pleeeeeease I have the stakes! <br />
(I've never used them, they mock me!) 

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## Grower13

might want to start soon....... those sativa strain can hit the ceiling in a hurry in 20 or so days of stretch........ although good LEDs do seem to slow down stretch........  get those stakes ready.


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## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> might want to start soon....... those sativa strain can hit the ceiling in a hurry in 20 or so days of stretch........ although good LEDs do seem to slow down stretch........  get those stakes ready.



 soon, days? I was hoping for a visual cue. In dirt, I often saw a doubling of height when flowered so I just flowered at a certain height. I have 2 feet of  headroom left. 20 days of stretch? when they start flowrin'? yikes 
 (not picking on you here, 13, anybody, or nobody, just ponderin') 
What's going to happen next? I don't want them to bushy up! Will going to flower stop that? 
The way they are now, each branch has one fan. How do I stop at these 8 branches? The branches will want to branch some more?  Do I just cut those off now? (but but but they look like they could form part of that branch's cola.... isn't that how the colas form? but if they grow away from the branch... popcorn?)  

I'm scouring the internet for time lapse videos, cause I'm smrt, eh 
Can't find one with mid to late veg, sheesh 

I'm starting to see alternating nodes... reliable visual cue? 
or should I wait until I see their privates?


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## sopappy

I was hoping the picture would show the future 'colas' I'm hoping for.
The 4 in a row are easy to see and the 2 on the side in the foreground show but the 2 on the other side are hard to see. I'm wondering if I should trim the 2 starting out to each side... seems far too ambitious for me to expect 8 colas.
The smaller plants made the choice easy.. I have 3 of them as 4 bangers.
Should I cut the xtra 2 on each side on the bigger girls? 

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## sopappy

I'm thinking it's soon now but I'm also going with HEIGHT as my visual cue and I also see alternating nodes, I'm winding down to flower this week: Lamp goes off for 2 hours tomorrow and then another 2 hours every day until 12/12 on Friday.

NB: Dumb move with those wooden stakes in the hydroton, white fuzz forming, hope I pulled them in time, saw some on the rocks too :-(


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## sopappy

Lamp was off for 6 hours today, half way there, took a couple shots. I was startled to see how dark the green was, nutes must be close, some tips browning. No ramp all veg, forced them from 6 - 6.3, just this last week first dip below 6.0, 

I automated my cooling coils with a rainbird solenoid on a tap. I should have made a video for THG, some spectacular leaks, thannkfully just the one in grow room, the hose flew off the coil you see there you see there (has clamps now , sprayed the wall, plants fine, 

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## Bongofury

Looks like your catching on to this growing hobby Sopappy. Plants look great. Green mojo.


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## sopappy

Bongofury said:


> Looks like your catching on to this growing hobby Sopappy. Plants look great. Green mojo.



 Thanks, Bongofury, this place straightens you out pretty quick


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## Bongofury

sopappy said:


> Thanks, Bongofury, this place straightens you out pretty quick



it sure does.


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## Rosebud

Those are looking great... how fun is this?


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## sopappy

Rosebud said:


> Those are looking great... how fun is this?



 Thanks, Rose.  Day 2 of flower, eating and drinking, I could just bust! and the seedlings under the 6500K, it's like i just got a new lamp. It's so nice not doing the firefighter thing, from one crisis to the next. I hope it lasts. 
I have dirt and water side by side, same strains, same age, the stems on the water are considerably thicker.  I've also managed to keep the pH 6.0 - 6.3 for veg ...more by accident than design; so I'm trying to keep it below (5.7 - 5.9) in flower. I read it somewhere. It doesn't seem to be hurting them (unless that's why they 're so dark)


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## sopappy

Well, it didn't last.. I'm my own worst enemy. I wanted a Sativa strain but hadn't stumbled across this tidbit until this morning. I've been going crazy trying to figure out what to trim on these plants and here's why... (sorry, forgot to grab source, just took the note)
  Some strains are better suited than others for the main-lining method. The best strains for main-lining display &quot;single cola dominance,&quot; which means that it tends to grow in the class &quot;Christmas tree&quot; shape of Indicas, Afghani strains, Kushes, etc.  
Sativa dominant strains often do not grow in this shape, and tend to have lots of secondary branches naturally spring up.
   shitshitshitshitshit, can't win fer losen


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## sopappy

It's getting fun now... I'm halfway to 12 weeks and am out of headroom with Sativas!  I have no idea what I'm going to do if they don't stop going up and all the branches sheeesh
Supercropping is all I can think of but they're close now and i don't see any damage.... 

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## grass hopper

lookn good bud.


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## sopappy

grass hopper said:


> lookn good bud.



 Thanks, 6 weeks, I don't have your thumb, yours look like that at 3 ! but it's still fun


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## WeedHopper

Looking good bra. Yehaaaaaaaaa


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## MeNtAlPaTiEnT

Thats going to look amazing when its all ready for chopping. Doing very good!


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## sopappy

update: They never got a whole lot better than this, another pathetic yield. I'm afraid these LEDs just aren't cutting it. Environment is ideal, I'm penny-wise, pound (get it?) foolish
I'm converting these buckets to ebb&flo and looking at HPS again.


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## WeedHopper

Good for you Bro,,,HPS is the bomb,,,hell i did better with T5s then ive seen with LEDS. 
Wait for it,,wait for it,,,okay now PJ can talk some crap. Lol


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Good for you Bro,,,HPS is the bomb,,,hell i did better with T5s then ive seen with LEDS.
> Wait for it,,wait for it,,,okay now PJ can talk some crap. Lol



I'm not putting it in a cool tube either, I'm pissed, I haven't seen a nice big fat cola in years.


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## Hushpuppy

Pappy; I wouldn't put an HPS bulb in the grow space without a hood to direct the light to the plants (you probably already know this). If your room can handle the increased heat from an open bulb then get a batwing hood, but the cool tubes with the reflector on the outside will give you excellent coverage and allow you to draw the bulb heat out. Here is where I buy all of my fixtures and ballasts. Never had a problem with this equipment. This is the fixture that I use, but not sure if you need a 400w or 600w. http://www.zenhydro.com/ipower-grow-light-400w-hps-dimmable-cool-tube-xl-reflector-set.html


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Pappy; I wouldn't put an HPS bulb in the grow space without a hood to direct the light to the plants (you probably already know this). If your room can handle the increased heat from an open bulb then get a batwing hood, but the cool tubes with the reflector on the outside will give you excellent coverage and allow you to draw the bulb heat out. Here is where I buy all of my fixtures and ballasts. Never had a problem with this equipment. This is the fixture that I use, but not sure if you need a 400w or 600w. http://www.zenhydro.com/ipower-grow-light-400w-hps-dimmable-cool-tube-xl-reflector-set.html



I started years ago with 600W Mh in veg, 1K in FLR, both in tubes vented through the rooms, in a basement, sucked house air thru tube back out to house and STILL it was too hot and expensive but I'm just not getting anywhere with these LEDs

yes, a hood fer sure but no tube, it blocks some helpful UV rays, no?
Flower only, 600W HPS w/ just the wing thing, I'll have to run A/C too, ching ching dam but if I get decent yields 

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## Hushpuppy

I haven't found any losses with the tubes that I use. There has to be some loss but not enough for me to tell any difference. But I have used the open wing hoods and struggled with heat. Heat/humidity is a significant challenge for me here in NC. If my grow was big enough, I wouldn't grow in the summer, but I have to for my patients that depend on my meds. 
I have nothing against LED but it has its own set of parameters that have to be used for it to work best. I have my methods down with the lighting that I am using so I don't care to upset the apple cart that I have. 

I use a portable AC unit right now that fits into the ventilation set up that I use, and while it works ok, it is a little bit of a pain and more expense.


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## sopappy

okay here I am, stumbling along again, having success with seeds so I thought I 'd try bombing at cloning and on my way, HP trying to help:



Hushpuppy said:


> I spray my clones when I put them in the 2ltr soda bottle domes, and I spray the domes as well. I do this once a day for the first week. then less as they seem to hold their own.
> 
> I can't spray these wimps, the weight of the drops.
> they bend eventually, that's what happens, see pic, two in front promising, one in back is what the end up looking like, don't get it,
> 
> Then I start removing the domes for short periods and then longer periods. You will find some variation in how much misting the plants like depending on the strain. I also put just a couple drops of rooting tonic in my misting water so that they get a little foliar feed to help them along. Some plants love this, and some hate it.
> 
> my clones aren't having any of this , ready to throw in the towel
> 
> I personally don't like to leave my rooter plugs open like you have yours because it allows for too much drying, too fast, but under the larger dome it may not be an issue.
> 
> mine are still damp to touch 24hrs later, I ca watch color shade on side of plug go down the plug
> 3 ft from 2 x T5 room temps, 80 - 95 HUM, I remove dome at 90 until 80 again, spray dome,
> 
> I also cut off any larger leaves before putting them into the cloner, and only leave smaller leaves or cut them in half. It seems to help hold the plants in suspended animation while the rooting hormones take over.
> 
> doesn't seem to help, should lamp be off ???
> 
> If you have large leaves under light, they want to do their "veg" function and that slows the rooting function, and the leaves continue to lose water due to normal "veg" function which robs the clone of moisture that it currently has difficulty retrieving from the plug due to being cut. The cut stump will absorb moisture through "capillary" action but it is no-ways as efficient as what just a couple roots are able to do. That is also why we keep the air very moist. It prevents the cuttings from losing water as fast and allows them to take in a little from the air.
> 
> aha, nevermind
> thanks as usual, HP



here's my clones still surviving so far 

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## sopappy

I learn everything the hard way, never should have spiit the trunk like that, I don't have the room, still, I'm trying some serious pruning before going to flower (this week)
goal is 4 - 6 branches total, topped. 

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## sopappy

Not too thrilled with my ebbing and flowing in the new tub either, 3 of them in suspended animation yet roots showing. 
I stop flow to just below the plugs now and lengthened period to every 3 hours.

bottom row, 2nd from left, scrawny pos 

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## sopappy

oh, and another thing, I used to go same strain but got bored, big mistake
too many strains going on here

See that scrawny looking thing with the yellow marker?
I was getting pissed and was going to pull it.... two weeks and a half weeks later 

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## Hushpuppy

Having multiple strains is ALWAYS a challenge, even for the most experienced growers. Its just more to keep up with.

If your cuttings are still standing and looking ok, you are still in the game. Its not over until they die. Even if they get looking rough, they can come back.

Those that are behind will take off shortly and will catch up.


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## Hushpuppy

The cuttings look like they are holding their own but they will handle being misted if you have a very good spray bottle that atomizes the water good. They don't need to be soaked with the spray, just wetted. *However*, if they are getting a good level of humidity under the dome then you shouldn't have to mist the cuttings.

You have to be very careful with lighting. Too little lighting and they will either die or begin to flower. I had several try to flower while in cloning because my light levels were too low and I was also giving them a dark period of 4hrs. I keep mine under 24hr light.
What kind of lighting do you have over your cuttings?


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## WeedHopper

Sending Green Mojo your way my Friend.


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## sopappy

Hi HP, this is not my cup of tea, I think I'm losing them
The close-up is of a couple tops I took and I thought they'd root for sure but look dead to me, nice big stack bent over, others seem to be hanging on
You can see lighter shade on the plugs, I syringe them w about 10mL 300ppm water
I stopped misting until better bottle (thanks)
I nuke water 2 min, pour into tray (cubes do NOT touch) dome steams up
phasing into 18/6 from 24, only 2 tubes in that T5
it's room temp in the dome, creeps up a bit
hum 80 - 95
do I give up on those 3 in the close-up? 

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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Sending Green Mojo your way my Friend.



Thanks, WH


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## WeedHopper

Ive always used Bubblers for my clones and then into 5 gallon DWC's. Never tried what your doing. Good luck.


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Ive always used Bubblers for my clones and then into 5 gallon DWC's. Never tried what your doing. Good luck.



That's a great set-up for starting seeds in rapid rooters
but not getting anywhere with my clones.

I'm not following using a bubbler for clones....
cut the clone, insert into neoprene,
is the tip just sitting in bubbling water?
nevermind, watching youtube this morning, questions later


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## sopappy

Well, that didn't take long. I'm off on my latest mad quest for clones. I'm going to throw together this poor man's cloner, 
love this guy's attitude too
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EERN8FLbioY
(think how much I'll save on neoprene inserts alone !!!)

then I'll empty my two trays into my new cloner bubbler and put some seeds in those trays, going to be lots of green in there or I die trying!


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## Hushpuppy

Man I hate you are having so much trouble. But keep trying, modifying and adjusting, you will find the right thing. I have a friend that clones in little Dixie cups of just straight water. He changes the water every day, and he gets about 50% success. The bad thing here is that some strains can be more difficult to clone and that can make you second guess yourself. A bubble cloner may be the trick for you. They work quite well.


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## umbra

there are many ways to do the same thing, what ever works for you is the best method. When I first moved the Cali 2 years ago, I had been popping beans considerably more than taking clones. I was doing rooters cubes and clonex and getting mixed results. Sometimes it worked great, sometimes not so much. I asked people out here what they did. My technique wasn't bad, it was the clonex. Now I use rockwool cubes, because it is the standard out here, and I use dip n gro. 100% every time. Good luck, green mojo.


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## Hushpuppy

I looked at that video and for easy to clone strains that will work fine but for harder strains, it may give you grief. Look at this video as it has some really good info for you I think.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHjwMH5336U

 Its an ad for the HTG Octo-cloner which is a good type of cloner (I used to have one but gave it to a buddy who was struggling). I built my own bubble cloner out of a small tote that I cut holes in the top and fit some foam pipe insulator pcs into the holes and that left me with about 1/2" openings to set my cuttings in place. I'm sure I have pics somewhere in my journal. http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70037&page=2   Start at the top of pg2 and you can see where I made it, and then several slides down, you can see the cuttings and how I like to snip them back some.

If you are "handy" you can build one easily enough. But the video shows some important techniques that will help you if you haven't seen them before.


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## sopappy

umbra said:


> there are many ways to do the same thing, what ever works for you is the best method. When I first moved the Cali 2 years ago, I had been popping beans considerably more than taking clones. I was doing rooters cubes and clonex and getting mixed results. Sometimes it worked great, sometimes not so much. I asked people out here what they did. My technique wasn't bad, it was the clonex. Now I use rockwool cubes, because it is the standard out here, and I use dip n gro. 100% every time. Good luck, green mojo.



Hi Umbra,      cat skinning...many ways, fer sure, what I find most perplexing is you never really know what worked and didn't work, lots of variables.
I've got something that works with seeds, the rapid rooters
but I don't like the rooter staying there ebbin' and flowin/ too soggy...
I likely won't be able to germinate in the foam now hahaha


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Man I hate you are having so much trouble. But keep trying, modifying and adjusting, you will find the right thing. I have a friend that clones in little Dixie cups of just straight water. He changes the water every day, and he gets about 50% success. The bad thing here is that some strains can be more difficult to clone and that can make you second guess yourself. A bubble cloner may be the trick for you. They work quite well.



I think I'm my own worst enemy, HP, I keep 2nd guessing my plan when I learn something new.... now I'm upset because i walk past that huge rez bubbling and being cooled and it's doing NOTHING for two hours between flows.
I hate waste!
I'm going to get some re-circulating goin' on but hope to avoid root issues with an ebb&flo every couple hours.
Failing that, I'm putting a foam float on the rez with 8 net pots.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> I looked at that video and for easy to clone strains that will work fine but for harder strains, it may give you grief. Look at this video as it has some really good info for you I think.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHjwMH5336U
> 
> Its an ad for the HTG Octo-cloner which is a good type of cloner (I used to have one but gave it to a buddy who was struggling). I built my own bubble cloner out of a small tote that I cut holes in the top and fit some foam pipe insulator pcs into the holes and that left me with about 1/2" openings to set my cuttings in place. I'm sure I have pics somewhere in my journal. http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=70037&page=2   Start at the top of pg2 and you can see where I made it, and then several slides down, you can see the cuttings and how I like to snip them back some.
> 
> If you are "handy" you can build one easily enough. But the video shows some important techniques that will help you if you haven't seen them before.



Very nice cloner thingie but spray looks like it could strip paint. My clones are frail things. excellent video, thanks

I dropped an empty net pot in to a bucket with water and a stone.
Level about an inch below the pot.
Then dropped all my clones through the bottom holes and the leaves hold them up. Only the males will survive hahaha
Don't care, have seeds to start in 2 weeks
I'm trying polyurethane foam cubes for better drainage later in ebb& flow
I'll get started on my cloner later, and probably clone yours.


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## Hushpuppy

Good luck with it Pappy, You will hit the right combination at some point. Hopefully sooner than later.


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## sopappy

On the tray, bottom row, second from left
compare it to 18 days ago, previous page
Compared to the one to it's left, it was infuriating me, I almost pulled it,
these are all regular seeds now
Made a huge mistake planted a variety of strains. 

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## sopappy

Cut a couple of lower branches off and decided I'd stick them in a plug and watch them die. I just can't do this clone thing 

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## sopappy

Sorry about the light.... I can't bring myself to turn that light off for even a few seconds. Last grow, beautiful big plant hermied and I got those banana things. I think it was because i was doing a lot of green light excursions. I do not trust green lights anymore. I just won't go in. 

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## sopappy

and here's my cover's neighbour. I smell my grow (in flower) sometimes when I'm coming and going. Awkward to say the least. This spring a skunk moved in and I've made comments to dog walking neighbours... watch out for the skunk,
I thought it'd be a great cover but I still smell that distinct odor waft by now and then. 

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## sopappy

view this in black & white and it's easier to see
this is a white widow, a seedling 2 Jun, 7-8 weeks ago, 
that clump on the bottom is 4 nodes above that the 5th
and the 2" gap to next 6, 7, 8, 9, 10
(I dropped from 24 to 18 is my guess, 2 other WW aren't as bad)

How would you trim this plant?

I'm thinking of cutting away the clump at the bottom,
keeping 4 branches and topping it

regular seed, tallest plant, if it's not a male, it will be after the trim :-( 

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## WeedHopper

Im seeing rabbit stew. Yehaaaaaaaaa 

Nice job Bro.


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## Hushpuppy

Those plants look like they are doing well. That last one looks like it stretched when you went to 18/6 but no problem. I would cut them all in half myself so that the lower branches will come out. HOWEVER, those also look very Indica in structure. Very Indica don't always like to be topped. If you want the side branches to come out more on them, remove all of the fan leaves from the lower 2/3 of plants (without cutting the secondary growth at those nodes) and they will branch out more.


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## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Those plants look like they are doing well. That last one looks like it stretched when you went to 18/6 but no problem. I would cut them all in half myself so that the lower branches will come out.
> HOWEVER, those also look very Indica in structure. Very Indica don't always like to be topped. If you want the side branches to come out more on them, remove all of the fan leaves from the lower 2/3 of plants (without cutting the secondary growth at those nodes) and they will branch out more.



cutting them in half? Do you mean top them at the middle node?

when you say secondary growth, is that a branch starting at a node?

you'd keep that tight node mess at the bottom?


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## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Im seeing rabbit stew. Yehaaaaaaaaa
> 
> Nice job Bro.



I saw a couple Asians stalking it with a butterfly net and bolted for my camera. All setup and ready to record, I was praying they'd catch it... be vewy, vewy quiet!

Thanks, it's looking pretty good in there. Isn't a day goes by I don't have to clean up a spill in there, I'm not going to get busted, I'm going to get electrocuted.

(attn pot harm thread folks... see that double use of "in there" in that last sentence? I think pot does that.)


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## sopappy

Here's the foam I'm trying, Zem. When i first filled the tray, they all started floating hahaha, didn't see that coming
It takes a minute to fill the tray, 10 minutes to drain and I turn the pump on every 15 minutes.


UPdate: total flop, I hope I didn't incline those embryoes to go all male on me
they're in RR now
a foam would be superb for ebb and flowing but the seeds did nothing
this foam is probably treated with something and I killed a dozen seeds :-(
I'll know in 4 days, rapid rooters are hard to beat

water & electricity.... if I disappear, probably electrocuted myself
had the lamp down close to new seedlings, forgot about old faithful
luckily I was standing there and slid one of the plastic pots over the hole
phew 

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View attachment ebbandflow.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Never buy pre-mixed nutes, there's another picture of this REZ after using it, nasty.
I'm back to the mixing A + B and much better.
I shook the living crap out of that bottle too, no difference, horrible syrupy stuff, yuck 

View attachment dontbuy.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Here's the gang in veg under LEDs...  I'm concerned I might be too high on the nutes but I think they look great here.... any sign of burning? 

View attachment nuteburn.jpg


----------



## sopappy

I'm trimming some plants readying for flower and can't bring myself to just chuck those branches so I thought I'd torture them for awhile first.
Some guy on the interweb get roots this way apparently 

View attachment clone.jpg


----------



## Sin inc

well hi there pappy seams like you have things dailed in the way you want.
looking forward to see more of the ladies


----------



## pcduck

Try setting your rapid rooter on top of perlite. Fill with water till they almost float. Works for me:aok:


----------



## sopappy

Sin inc said:


> well hi there pappy seams like you have things dailed in the way you want.
> looking forward to see more of the ladies



nope, wrong guy, I'm so out of sync with my gals, it's almost entertaining

I'm trying to germinate in air conditioner foam seals and home-made ebb &flo seedling trays w/ mats and needlessly complicated HA controlling it all.
pull up a chair, it'll be hoot


----------



## sopappy

pcduck said:


> Try setting your rapid rooter on top of perlite. Fill with water till they almost float. Works for me:aok:



I'm trying to replace the RR because they'll get too soggy in my half and half ebb &flo RDWC systems. The things take forever to drain. I'm trying foam in hydroton instead.

That is an excellent idea. I gather you don't water the plugs, just keep the perlite wet?


----------



## pcduck

That's  right sopappy:aok:
Works for Rockwool also.


----------



## sopappy

pcduck said:


> That's  right sopappy:aok:
> Works for Rockwool also.



I think you just solved my floating foam problem, pictures to follow...


----------



## Sin inc

pulling it up and takeing a seat:volcano vaporizer:


----------



## sopappy

hahahaha well, just in time, foam failed
perlite works okay but the foam doesn't wick,
and I just got this sick feeling that the roots might not be able to penetrate it or maybe it's treated for mold or something
I always think of this **** AFTER :-(

I saw necks in 3-4 days with the plugs, it's been 4 days in the foam and the shells haven't even cracked so back into the plugs they went 

View attachment plugs.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Here's a shot of the stems, ones in the pots are back-ups about the same age.
Different strains here as well. The one closest to camera got trimmed to 4 branches and topped. They're all about 6 weeks
left quadrant, upper right (and to her right) were pathetic looking things last week

handheld, tripod in flower 

View attachment tray.jpg


View attachment sunuva.jpg


----------



## sopappy

wow, gooogle advanced search works superbly here but
who makes the best cloner?
24 - 36 sites

oh, here we go again, procurement from eskimo land, ridiculous land o' liberals
why does amazon.ca even bother? THEY SUCK 

View attachment canadasucks2.JPG


View attachment canadasucks.jpg


----------



## sopappy

3 males pretty much jumped up and down at about week 6 in veg tray
that big stalk I was bragging about, male
unremarkable finding males, i prefer regular seed, but this time, while moving the eyepiece in to position 
(look, I'm sorry, but I find that erotic every time 
I swear I could feel the difference, (oh crap, a dink), before I even looked

the roots looked good, nice white, some staining, the roots smell reminded me of carrots, I'm hopeing that's a good thing

transplanting with rapid rooters and hydroton is painless
only bummer is trimming the roots, that's why the little pots for back-ups
the roots are perfect to drop into net pots and the tray


----------



## sopappy

As usual, I'm running out of pot way too early :-(
Here's the flower room, starting week 3, 
4 in rdwc, 
2 handwatered in hydroton and they're keeping up !!

I check out your grows 
so I hope you all realize how difficult it is to post here some days

almost half way thru flower for pete's sake 

View attachment flowermonday.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Lost a pump some time yesterday,
I noticed this morning because the water temp in the REZ was staying about 2 degrees below normal, no ice needed and it was still warm in here ???

I wonder how warm the water in the buckets got, (bubbles only, no circ)
dammit, could have been worse w/o bubblers i guess

Who would have thought a rez magically staying cool was a problem?

and root activity heats up the water, fascinating
I can monitor both pumps with the temperature gauge in the rez
it wasn't beeping at me to change the ice cubes 
hindsight


----------



## sopappy

From that orange bucket... I found two plants that seemed to have a tap root so i dropped them in to plugs and put them under the T5 

3 up in 4 days but concerned about all them laggards 

View attachment thursday.jpg


----------



## sopappy

the clones keeled over under the T5s

this is a double post, hope that isn't rude, but having a cow here
this is 4 plants in RDWc and 2 hand watered in pellets (okay so far)
leaves are sorta translucence, pale green, picture is actually pretty good
started with last bucket, one across (closest to LED)
ppms are about 500, ph 5.7 - 6.0 

View attachment 101_0044.jpg


----------



## stinkyelements

Hey pappy, looks like they need some foods....I don't know much about rdwc. I skimmed through your journal a bit. Good stuff. I see your not too happy with the LEDs and although being new to LEDs myself I think you would strongly benefit by training your girls a little more for an even canopy and focusing most or all bud production to top colas and get rid of lower sucker shoots from my understanding LEDs don't get enough penetration to do much to any bud production that isn't sitting at canopy level. So your plants are focusing unnecessary energy to undesirable buds. Anyway just my thoughts


----------



## sopappy

stinkyelements said:


> Hey pappy, looks like they need some foods....I don't know much about rdwc. I skimmed through your journal a bit. Good stuff. I see your not too happy with the LEDs and although being new to LEDs myself I think you would strongly benefit by training your girls a little more for an even canopy and focusing most or all bud production to top colas and get rid of lower sucker shoots from my understanding LEDs don't get enough penetration to do much to any bud production that isn't sitting at canopy level. So your plants are focusing unnecessary energy to undesirable buds. Anyway just my thoughts



I was thinking LEDs feed the plant so halved the nutes, I've since done a rez change and upped the nutes.

Training was a letdown, I did the mainlining thing and it was fun but it just seemed to me like I got two small trunks instead of one big one
, ie same friggin' yield but lost a lot of time waiting for plants to recover. 

I removed lower third on the ones in flower, I'm aiming for 4 - 6 branches per plant this time, remove lower third. And I'm topping at the 7th


----------



## stinkyelements

Nice. Hopefully that helps, otherwise your grow looks good. I recently did the same thing and topped a blue kush that could or would have been a massive single cola I think and is now two small tops, my idea was to do a scrog of sorts and that single plant kinda threw that plan out. I would try topping earlier at the 4th maybe in the future I think it gives you more control and more time to dictate how they grow and start training earlier before it gets too tall and less manageable


----------



## GhostMan

Hey Sopappy, nice grow man.. I've got a question. On page 1 the seeds look like they are coated as the are popping. Is that a coating ?


----------



## sopappy

stinkyelements said:


> Nice. Hopefully that helps, otherwise your grow looks good. I recently did the same thing and topped a blue kush that could or would have been a massive single cola I think and is now two small tops, my idea was to do a scrog of sorts and that single plant kinda threw that plan out. I would try topping earlier at the 4th maybe in the future I think it gives you more control and more time to dictate how they grow and start training earlier before it gets too tall and less manageable



I only wait until the 7th because it is a sturdier plant than at 4
I see spectacular results here with training but I never get results
steep friggin' curve for some of us hahaha


----------



## sopappy

GhostMan said:


> Hey Sopappy, nice grow man.. I've got a question. On page 1 the seeds look like they are coated as the are popping. Is that a coating ?



Thanks, I've done about a dozen grows and my starts are stupendous but something always happens in the home stretch :-(

Those aren't the seeds, they are small hydroton pellets.
When I started using the rapid rooters, they were coming up with helmuts on
so I drop a pellet or two after the seed and they come up without the hat


----------



## sopappy

dam dam dam
I was hoping for a spectacular recovery being hydro, man, that is a sickly pale green 
and all around the buds, all new growth
I changed rez, doubled nutes, let water go to 70,
NO CHANGE in 2 days

6 in flower, they are not all the same strain and
2 of the 4 plants in the same RDWC are just fine, 
2 with shitty colour are also the two biggest (naturally)
2 in separate pots are also okay
same nutes I've used for years, never seen this
but not surprised, nope, not at all, right on schedule, bring it on, ya sob, 
I'm not cut out for this i tells ya


----------



## pcduck

What is the rate of growth for the 2 bigger ones compared to the 2 smaller ones?


----------



## sopappy

pcduck said:


> What is the rate of growth for the 2 bigger ones compared to the 2 smaller ones?



the 2 affected ones grew faster, stems are twice as big as unaffected 2 others in rdwc and they are all bigger than unaffected 2 hand watered

they are not all the same strain but I mixed up the tags again


----------



## pcduck

Well I would think that the 2 with problems are the same strain. The 2 are out-growing their nute regiment. I would either feed more often or feed them a higher ppm of nutes. But since they are mixed with healthy plants you can do neither without effecting the others. Is there any way to remove them?


----------



## GhostMan

sopappy said:


> Thanks, I've done about a dozen grows and my starts are stupendous but something always happens in the home stretch :-(
> 
> Those aren't the seeds, they are small hydroton pellets.
> When I started using the rapid rooters, they were coming up with helmuts on
> so I drop a pellet or two after the seed and they come up without the hat


 Well good luck on this one bro... The hats..lol I couldn't figure out what was going on from the picture.


----------



## sopappy

pcduck said:


> Well I would think that the 2 with problems are the same strain. The 2 are out-growing their nute regiment. I would either feed more often or feed them a higher ppm of nutes. But since they are mixed with healthy plants you can do neither without effecting the others. Is there any way to remove them?



Yes, I can lift them out and drop them in separate buckets and hand water.
Pain in the *** but I should be punished for mixing strains.

I increased ppms for all 2 days ago, lights on in a few hours, if still no change, I'll isolate them.


----------



## sopappy

GhostMan said:


> Well good luck on this one bro... The hats..lol I couldn't figure out what was going on from the picture.



The only problems that i haven't had are bugs.... I have had everything else and every single grow too, NOT a single ONE went smoothly! 

The little pellets block the light too.... waaay classier than ripping off a piece of the plug,...  not sure if the hat


----------



## sopappy

I'm moving the 8 plant tray into the flower room so I had a chance to look at the roots. 
Not sure what the staining is but they smell great. You can see the one I transplanted and had to cut the roots to fit in the pot. I did 3 like that and noticed on the other 2 that I didn't cut enough off the roots, I think they folded over themselves and stopped, roots are only coming out the sides (not shown in picture)
I fear they won't do so hot now. So, THAT back-up strategy doesn't work, they're in flower with no roots. 

View attachment rutz3.jpg


----------



## GhostMan

Bro it seems like every grow I've done Murphy showed up in some way. Maybe future grows will run smoother.. Cheers m8!


----------



## sopappy

I think I found my chemical imbalance, HP, 
Finishing up my A + B jugs of bloom nutes and I have more A left than B

I'm going to try some different nutes, that RAW stuff maybe


----------



## sopappy

GhostMan said:


> Bro it seems like every grow I've done Murphy showed up in some way. Maybe future grows will run smoother.. Cheers m8!



when it happens, I like to sing that PATCHES song from way back,
usually just the part at 1:39
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zNpt161iG-Q


----------



## sopappy

Okay, out of the pot in to the fire.... seems I wasn't too high on the nutes afterall
The problem plants are the only two that reacted like this.
IF this is nute burn that is....  not many affected, 1 -3 per plant, it is still growing and original pale green hasn't changed 

View attachment burn.jpg


----------



## GhostMan

Wish I could help, but I've only ever done soil.


----------



## sopappy

GhostMan said:


> Wish I could help, but I've only ever done soil.



ya gotta be quick in hydro, I just noticed these leaves this morning
and if I'd seen them from first sign, it's easier to troubleshoot


----------



## Hushpuppy

Pappy look for a pattern in the necrosis on the plants. If that is just a few leafs here and there on the plants(down low) then that isn't too much of an issue as the older leaves will get used up and "yellow off" as they age. I get quite a bit of that down low as my plants age. Once those leaves down low lose the majority of light, they will begin to yellow off and the plant will actually take available nutes from those leaves then kill them off.

It can also be a symptom of the plants just not being happy. I suspect that the genetics of those 2 plants just couldn't handle the stress of the changes that you made and I would bet the roots got damaged by the stress. (that is why I tell people to not do major changes to grow in the middle of a run, only minor tweaks).....Hard to say but that is one possibility when they just won't respond to fixes while everyone else is doing fine.


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Pappy look for a pattern in the necrosis on the plants. If that is just a few leafs here and there on the plants(down low) then that isn't too much of an issue as the older leaves will get used up and "yellow off" as they age. I get quite a bit of that down low as my plants age. Once those leaves down low lose the majority of light, they will begin to yellow off and the plant will actually take available nutes from those leaves then kill them off.
> 
> It can also be a symptom of the plants just not being happy. I suspect that the genetics of those 2 plants just couldn't handle the stress of the changes that you made and I would bet the roots got damaged by the stress. (that is why I tell people to not do major changes to grow in the middle of a run, only minor tweaks).....Hard to say but that is one possibility when they just won't respond to fixes while everyone else is doing fine.




That diagnosis sounds about right to me, HP. and I think you warned me about that too but I changed my set-up mid stream and it was probably more steessful than i thought. I've been mucking around with my timing too, this week should be very telling, I'm leaving them alone


----------



## Hushpuppy

Yeah I think that maybe they just couldn't handle it. Some strains can handle that stress without a problem. I've had strains that you couldn't kill with a lawn mower, and Ive seen some that I just couldn't make happy. Just let em ride and if something comes to mind, run it up the flagpole and see how it flies.


----------



## WeedHopper

Freaking Pineapple Express was one of the strongest plants i ever grew.


----------



## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Freaking Pineapple Express was one of the strongest plants i ever grew.



I'll try it, I'm having trouble with seeds again now too, I think the free seeds they give you must be old


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Yeah I think that maybe they just couldn't handle it. Some strains can handle that stress without a problem. I've had strains that you couldn't kill with a lawn mower, and Ive seen some that I just couldn't make happy. Just let em ride and if something comes to mind, run it up the flagpole and see how it flies.



I just wanted to add an ebb & flo try and went off the deep end fiddling but finalized it all yesterday.
I'll post each sytem, I 'm not sure of what I am doing 
An hour before daybreak, I'm afraid to go in there


----------



## sopappy

this is my modified (R)DWC (long story)

-1 control bucket (w/pump and tube to rez) connected to 4 x (5gal/20L) buckets connected at the bases, an airstone in each bucket
-30gal/120L reservoir (w/pump and tube to feed the end bucket, top feed

when the rez is full, there is about 2 inches of water left in the buckets
when the buckets are full, level is half way up the hydroton, just below rapid rooters

It takes about 10 minutes to fill the buckets
and then they sit in bubbling water about 15 minutes (not recirculating)
it takes about 10 minutes to drain the buckets
and they sit in air, bottom 2 inches is bubbling water, for 15 minutes
repeat

how long do you think the buckets should stay full?
how long do you think the buckets should stay empty?

ebbing and flowing hydroton twice an hour doesn't seem excessive to me
and bubbling when it's stagnant shouldn't hurt
and the roots hanging in the air for 15 minutes with their feet in bubbles sounds like a friggin' spa to me

repeats hourly day and night
I think 15 minutes is about right but easily changed

-------- morning after reset
The pH dropped like a rock overnight from 5.6 to 5.1 and I was expecting it to go up. 
They drank 3 litres (3 quarts) but the ppms did not change
I added ph up to the rez to bring it to 5.5


----------



## sopappy

I bought a 2nd rez, a tub sits on top of it with a cover with 8 holes for
4 inch net pots with about 4 inches below the pots
I added airstones to the rez and the tub and use the overflow to re-circulate

I turn the pump on 45 minutes every hour, and let it drain and sit 15 minutes. (easily changed)
hydroton again, rapid rooters, similar levels

----------- morning after reset
this system is behaving
drank 3 litres and ppm from 700 down to 460
pH at 6.2 already but I'm letting it go 12 hours


----------



## Gooch

sopap i am so f'ing happy to hear you are going ebb and flow bro, also i like th sounds of the raw, so let me give you the low down as i know it and i have only had success with ebb and flow going on 4 grows knock on wood all successful. 
first to the fill times i have 2 thoughts on this 1 is every 4 hours and the other is every 6 hours. in veg i go every 6 and in flower i go every 4 hours. I leave mine filled for 30 mins. I also do not use an airstone in the buckets but i have several in the res i figure makes more sense to oxygenate the entire res and fill them all and drain and repeat has worked perfectly for me. Also make sure the buckets completely drain dry(literally)
Part 2 using RAW
I have used raw since week 3 of my first grow when i discovered it and again i attricbute most of my success to it and harley smith for giving me the undestanding of what the plant needs and when it needs and why it needs it. 
How i feed. I use the RAW biostimulants every single res change 
Kelp, humic acid, amino acids(OmniA), Silica, and every other res change i add vitamin b, then i add in a single bottle formula GH floranova some of the highest quality strictly NPK nutrients made period.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> sopap i am so f'ing happy to hear you are going ebb and flow bro, also i like th sounds of the raw, so let me give you the low down as i know it and i have only had success with ebb and flow going on 4 grows knock on wood all successful.
> first to the fill times i have 2 thoughts on this 1 is every 4 hours and the other is every 6 hours. in veg i go every 6 and in flower i go every 4 hours. I leave mine filled for 30 mins. I also do not use an airstone in the buckets but i have several in the res i figure makes more sense to oxygenate the entire res and fill them all and drain and repeat has worked perfectly for me. Also make sure the buckets completely drain dry(literally)
> Part 2 using RAW
> I have used raw since week 3 of my first grow when i discovered it and again i attricbute most of my success to it and harley smith for giving me the undestanding of what the plant needs and when it needs and why it needs it.
> How i feed. I use the RAW biostimulants every single res change
> Kelp, humic acid, amino acids(OmniA), Silica, and every other res change i add vitamin b, then i add in a single bottle formula GH floranova some of the highest quality strictly NPK nutrients made period.



Thanks for the numbers, Gooch, I'm still playing with that.
I've mucked things uyp a bit as usual.

I have to buy Bloom nutes within a week or so and looking at that RAW thing for sure, sounds complicated though :-(


----------



## sopappy

By jezuz, I think they're coming back, praise be, I don't see as much of the sickly lime colour and they seem to be greening up
but the pH just plummets even after I upped the nutes in the buckets
if pH down again after sleep today, I'll up it again (under LED,  870)

the tray is great, eating and drinking, not sure what dialed in means but i think I'm close with the tray anyways 

View attachment onmend.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Amazon.ca BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA what a joke!

Anybody know where I can find this stuff in Canada? 

View attachment amazoncom.JPG


View attachment amazonca.JPG


----------



## Gooch

sopappy said:


> I have to buy Bloom nutes within a week or so and looking at that RAW thing for sure, sounds complicated though :-(


not at all this is the low down... Harley smith did research and development over 10 years or so, and figured a bunch of **** out about how plants grow what they need why they use it etc... he created Mother plant A-b which was the first solution to incorporate biostimulants along with all the NPK needed etc..
so with the RAW biostimulants you are getting all the information he developed. Now if you havnt noticed all the nutrients are using a-b formulas, this has been the case since the mother plant nutrient in early 2000. The problem is they do not say what biostimulants they are using and in what proportion. So i wont use a-b forumlas for that reason. I choose a single bottle grow and single bottle bloom because it is so easy especially dealing with a res. You simply fill the res start with adding in the bio stimulands- amino acids, kelp, humic acid, cal-mag, and silica(1/8-1/4 tsp per gallon). then you add your NPK base nutrients and your set. there is actually a class tonight at 5pm i am going to pm you a link to register


----------



## sopappy

I emailed a ways back about where to get it in Canada, haven't followed up yet, soon
Our products are distributed through Greenstar wholesale and Megawatt Wholesale in Canada. Please get in touch with them to find the nearest retailer to you that carries our products.
Most hydroponic stores should have access to our products. If they don't currently stock something, they can order it for you.


----------



## sopappy

I think I might just make it. My numbers for the 8 in the tray make sense 
but the buckets are still a little wonky, pH falling but not plummetting any more
and I still see some pale green but I see lots of greening up too. 

View attachment greeeeeeeeeen.jpg


----------



## sopappy

I'm going to add another tray, strictly ebb and flow under my T5 
I buy REGULAR seeds and grow in only hydroton with rapid rooters
I have 4 in buckets, 8 in the tray, half way through flower for 12 (and a couple laggards)

So, I want 24 - 30 seeds started a week ago (3rd wk of flower)
and having trouble with seeds again, only 8 of 20 up so far so Sopappy is so panicking,
planting another 15 blueberry today (when new tray ready for the 8 I got which frees up the cool whites flourescents for blueberry seeds.

I'm not buying his damn tray unless he has Jungle Juice


----------



## Grower13

If your topping off  and your ph is falling in the res........ makes me wonder if your bubbling the water in the res hard.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> If your topping off  and your ph is falling in the res........ makes me wonder if your bubbling the water in the res hard.



4 buckets, one control, one rez
bubblers in the 4 plant buckets only
hose waterfalls in to the rez
are you saying there can be TOO MUCH oxygen?

the rez pump fills the 4 buckets (sit full for 15 minutes)
the control pump then empties the 4 buckets (and they sit empty 15 minutes)
it takes about the same 10 -15 to fill and empty
so this happens EVERY HOUR, too much?
As it's hydroton, I figured i couldn't leave them dry longer than 15 minutes.
I can adjust either or both of the full vs empty cycles


----------



## Grower13

Yes..... I was pumping so many bubbles into my res it was lowering my PH......... went to a smaller pump and went with making it put out bigger bubbles........ not really trying to oxygenate the water....... just trying to keep nutrient mixed well between the 12 hour watering cycle I use.

I know a few peeps who are using small fountain pumps on timers to flume (mix) their res every so often instead of air pumps.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> Yes..... I was pumping so many bubbles into my res it was lowering my PH......... went to a smaller pump and went with making it put out bigger bubbles........ not really trying to oxygenate the water....... just trying to keep nutrient mixed well between the 12 hour watering cycle I use.
> 
> I know a few peeps who are using small fountain pumps on timers to flume (mix) their res every so often instead of air pumps.




This is making sense. I think I'm messing things up with too much up and down in the buckets (it sucks out and draws in fresh oxygen they say) and with the bubblers, it's too much. Interesting.

I'm going to make the empty period 15 minutes maybe 4 times a day and not at all overnight but I'll let them wallow in the DWC (only circulated 4 times, always bubbled) for the rest of the time.

I did the fountain thing at first with my new rez and just pointed it up, nice action on the surface but I forgot about the rez draining, the lower the water got, the higher the fountain went... I heard the splashing and went down to see a 3 foot geyser, great action but kinda noisy.

I drop pumps into buckets to mix nutes all the time.... really fun to watch stoned.


----------



## sopappy

It's been a week, these gals have gone up about .1 per day, at 5.9 Ph today 
drinking about 1/2 quart each daily, ppms were at 650, wed,thu,fri but dropped overnight (their day) to 350 today 
nute change tomorrow? or go another week?, what ppms?
about a month into flower 

View attachment tray.jpg


----------



## sopappy

still having pH dropping issues with the buckets
I've slowed it (I think) by diluting the tank, reducing the ebb and flow cycle, I leave them submerged all the time and drain for 15 minutes every 4 hours
It's down to 5.5 this morning. definately doing a rez change tomorrow or tonight so left it alone today, sleeping
The 4 drank 4 quarts, ppm finally moved a tad 50 down, somebody snacked
sitting at 800 all week, but drinking all week
some burnt tips on two healthy, pale green mostly gone on 2 problematics,

I'm thinking my bud stacking ain't too great, I'm halway through flower.

when I look at that picture, I see those upper leaves reaching for the LEDs, 
it looks like they want more to me. I was thinking of putting the buckets in a circle under the LED and hanging a vertical 250W HPS in the middle u nder the LED

(man I risk some serious burns and I'd have to get used to wearing sunglasses a lot more, I'm bad for that but I don't look at the LEDs but vertically in the middle of the circle....
I wonder if they'd keep going up or bend toward the lamp and smother it, real risk of that
I think I just talked myself out of that idea 

View attachment reaching.jpg


----------



## Grower13

leaves up means happy plant.........

lack of buddage  and stretch is mostly cause by lack of light or genetics.

You shouldn't be burning tips at an 800 ppm....... mine did that until I got my daily topping off set up right....... correctly topping off twice daily fixed that issue for me.

I know many whose ppm's start out over 1000 up to 1200 in a fresh res using LEDs

What are you feeding?

How much of it are you using in the res mix?

what kind of LED are you using?........ most of the good ones require the light to 12 to 18 inches above canopy to keep them from bleaching the leaves and burning the plant.


----------



## Gooch

about the ph, if you use calmag or some silica products its good to add those first into your res before the nutrients. 
about the lack of buds- in the spoon feeding regiment you would be adding in more phosphorus during the first 4 weeks of flower and that will create more bud sites and faster bud starts. I cannot comment on your system strategies as i dont do DWC, which is apparently a reverse ebb and flow lol,
on the burn i think DWC uses a more watered down nute solution because it is in liquid most of the time?


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> leaves up means happy plant.........
> 
> lack of buddage  and stretch is mostly cause by lack of light or genetics.
> 
> >>>then she's not happy, she wants more light, you're not helping hahaha
> 
> You shouldn't be burning tips at an 800 ppm....... mine did that until I got my daily topping off set up right....... correctly topping off twice daily fixed that issue for me.
> 
> >>>flower is 7am to 7pm off (thanks to that **** McGuinty)
> so I check daily at 7am and 7pm and top up dammit so that's twice a day, why am I tormented so?
> 
> waaaait a minute... 7pm lights on, i just checked both rezes, no change, no drinking, they were sleeping, you have to top up when they wake up ??
> 
> I know many whose ppm's start out over 1000 up to 1200 in a fresh res using LEDs
> 
> >>> I'm getting pissed off now
> I read sudden drop pH means too much nutes so I back off to 800 from label 1100 (change cycles too) and drop slows but continues
> 
> What are you feeding?
> >>> you wouldn't recognize the nutes, nobody does, G.E.T technologies
> I'm doing less tha hydro label sez but LEDS I figured.
> 
> How much of it are you using in the res mix?
> >>>less than label recommends for hydro, I add some micronutrients (thrive)
> 
> what kind of LED are you using?........ most of the good ones require the light to 12 to 18 inches above canopy to keep them from bleaching the leaves and burning the plant.
> >>> mine is 320W (actual) and sez 24" for bloom (made in china but cree 3W leds they claim)



thanks, 13, replies above >>>


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> about the ph, if you use calmag or some silica products its good to add those first into your res before the nutrients.
> about the lack of buds- in the spoon feeding regiment you would be adding in more phosphorus during the first 4 weeks of flower and that will create more bud sites and faster bud starts. I cannot comment on your system strategies as i dont do DWC, which is apparently a reverse ebb and flow lol,
> on the burn i think DWC uses a more watered down nute solution because it is in liquid most of the time?



Don't need Phosphorus, Gooch, I 've got plenty of bud sites. They just seem too far apart at 4 weeks. What does RAW have to fatten the bastards up and fill all that space between them?


----------



## Gooch

well phosphorus is the energy element and it gives the plant extra energy to create more budsites is my understanding, starting week5 you fatten em up by giveing them extra potassium which is the health/quality element and it helps pull the sugars into the forming buds, during heavy flowering the plants will pull the available potassium down to deficient levels within 2-3 days, so every 2-3 days i add potassium back in so the plant can continue to build


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> well phosphorus is the energy element and it gives the plant extra energy to create more budsites is my understanding, starting week5 you fatten em up by giveing them extra potassium which is the health/quality element and it helps pull the sugars into the forming buds, during heavy flowering the plants will pull the available potassium down to deficient levels within 2-3 days, so every 2-3 days i add potassium back in so the plant can continue to build



now we're talkin' , I'm just starting week 5 and I won't get the RAW stuff in time, I'm in an igloo in Canada, amazon still sells books to us.
What else has potassium I could use?

could I sprinkle a little salt in there? what's chloride? will it hurt them?


----------



## Gooch

bad idea, what hydro store is near you locally? you are ideally looking for potassium sulfate


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> bad idea, what hydro store is near you locally? you are ideally looking for potassium sulfate



Procurement in Canada is a pain. I rarely find what I want here.

I was more kidding about the salt (season to taste)
I'll look for potassium sulfate.


----------



## Gooch

is procurement a store you go to? sorry around  me i have indoor garden centers, that carry everything you would every need to start,fix, or upgrade an indoor grow. I am not sure about laws in canada or how it all works i just assumed there were local shops you can go to and buy what you need. pm me your address send me money on paypal and ill send it to you


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> is procurement a store you go to? sorry around  me i have indoor garden centers, that carry everything you would every need to start,fix, or upgrade an indoor grow. I am not sure about laws in canada or how it all works i just assumed there were local shops you can go to and buy what you need. pm me your address send me money on paypal and ill send it to you



procurement is procuring or acquiring **** and up here, I might as will be livinbg in an igloo, but don't get me started 
I'm still waiting for my G13 markers, a MONTH.(like comic book days ffs)

And Very kind of you to offer but no, there's always a workaround or a substitute. I'm still waiting to hear back from one outfit.


----------



## Gooch

i know there is a way to make it organically but obviously that takes time to make


----------



## sopappy

Can't get nuthin' up here, I'll be sticking with my GET technologies guy, he's too helpful and I picked up a used 1K HPS and ballast for 100-
I'm thinking that will make a bigger difference than anything else.

This is week 6 and the buds are there, but nothing anywhere near looking like it'll make a cola, too embarrassed to take a picture :-(
I paid a small fortune for those damn chinese LEDs and I'm saving on electricity but I don't have anything to smoke!
(money will get you through times of...

I have two weeks left of yet another disappointing grow under those LEDS
should I rip out the LED now and put in the monster for the last 2 weeks or wait until next flower?


----------



## sopappy

so I've decided what I'm gonna do now...    (Zeppelin circa 70s)

Ebb & flo was a huge mistake... but lessons learned
4 buckets are back to RDWC with drips in each bucket but I'm adding a wrinkle.
The rez is gone, control bucket is rez now.
They re-circ for 1:45 hours and drain to empty
then re-fill to neck of the plant (top of the hydroton)
and drain to 1" below net
and recirculate, repeat as nauseum

Ebb and flow tray is going RDWC, aint that hard, I just leave the pump on and add bubblers to tray and the rez

I am not differentiating between day and night until somebody convinces me otherwise 

aaaaaaand I have a 1k HPS I really, really, really want to stick in my flower room
but I'm dragging my heels.... I'll shock them hahaha

oh, the Zeppelin reference... having trouble?.... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2cOYzDtpEmI    go to 3:39

not enough? okay, go here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AduBW3iCNY
you're in the spirit world, *******


----------



## sopappy

not my fault
I'm on alcohol instead of pot, makes me an overbearing jerk
I had to do this 

View attachment todays posts.jpg


----------



## sopappy

sorry gang, out of pot, can't handle beer... 14 beers in 14 hours not too bright
my apologies for the silly postings


----------



## Gooch

I dont think you problem is the ebb and flow cause you were not really using it as an ebb and flow. You were using it backwards, and keeping it filled rather then keeping it empty. you should be keeping them filled for 30-45 min and empty for 4-6 hours


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I dont think you problem is the ebb and flow cause you were not really using it as an ebb and flow. You were using it backwards, and keeping it filled rather then keeping it empty. you should be keeping them filled for 30-45 min and empty for 4-6 hours



I'm half french, backwards actually makes sense to me. 
I thought I'd try and add a couple 15 minute empty periods during the day,
it made sense when I was stoned but pretty silly in practice
I did revert the buckets back to RDWC with bubblers in each,
I keep the water level just below the net pots and the last bucket is top fed


----------



## sopappy

Well, another lacklustre yield but decent enough pot. Nothing picture worthy :-(
but I have pot 

What a menagerie, I bought a variety of regular seeds and as always, lose track. Ph woes in the org bucket set up. 
Next batch coming were all started within a 2 -3 week period and are all over the map. Seed dude gave me free seeds too, must be the autoflowers, well, I have two of them with buds in veg ??? I guess they go to flower anytime now. Leaves me two more free spots, I'm thinking the two biggest. 

View attachment veg.jpg


View attachment auto1.jpg


View attachment auto2.jpg


----------



## Keef

What up Pappy ? -- Just keep sticking them into bloom !-- I've run a lot of small plant !-- Nothing wrong with that !-- Not a fan of Autos !--I'm a cloner !-- No reason to clone an auto !


----------



## Gooch

hey man its really not that hard you just have to stick to it, i go with the golden rule KISS that is why i use single bottle grow and single bottle bloom and add my own biostimulants, cause i get high quality every time without fail. I know you dont like monsantos etc... but its the highest quality materials and that is all that  matter s to me


----------



## sopappy

Keef said:


> What up Pappy ? -- Just keep sticking them into bloom !-- I've run a lot of small plant !-- Nothing wrong with that !-- Not a fan of Autos !--I'm a cloner !-- No reason to clone an auto !



I got 24 slots in my veg room, 12 slots in my flower, 
I start reg seeds when the small trays are empty (12 in each tray)
yup, just trying to get a rotation going, frustrating at times

I threw pics of autoflowers in for yuks but really, what I do? put those runts in flower??


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> hey man its really not that hard you just have to stick to it, i go with the golden rule KISS that is why i use single bottle grow and single bottle bloom and add my own biostimulants, cause i get high quality every time without fail. I know you dont like monsantos etc... but its the highest quality materials and that is all that  matter s to me



I can't argue with your results but i think, in my case, anyways, it's more a case of the lighting. My LEDS are 5 years old, I haven't tried flowering with T5s but I bet results are close, I may go with all T5s when LEDs die (how do you know?)
I like the KISS thing but RAW hard to find up her.

far out, look, there's that damn pot thing again, I said 'case' twice up there
I should submit myself to some clinical study or something,


----------



## Gooch

yes i suspect an old light is not a good thing, the t5 powerveg lights look pretty awesome and i bet produce better then what you have


----------



## Hushpuppy

Hey Pappy, just checking in on you. Looks like you are slowly getting it together. You are really jumping hard from crawling to a dead run by trying to set up the cycling of veg to flower. That is a very challenging method to master. I'm still trying to master it myself. Fortunately, I am only tending 3 plants in flower and about 5 in veg. If you are tending to more than 10 plants in 3 different stages, that's a lot of work.

If you stay at it you will get it. It will all begin to jibe for you at some point, and all the bells will ring in your head saying "that's how it works!" But you definitely need to make another investment in new lights. As technology age goes, those LEDs are just about obsolete at 5 years old. I don't know if the beam degrades over time with a LED like it does in chemical vapor lighting, but Im willing to bet you aren't getting as much light energy as they really need for flowering and vegging.


----------



## sopappy

Hushpuppy said:


> Hey Pappy, just checking in on you. Looks like you are slowly getting it together. You are really jumping hard from crawling to a dead run by trying to set up the cycling of veg to flower. That is a very challenging method to master. I'm still trying to master it myself. Fortunately, I am only tending 3 plants in flower and about 5 in veg. If you are tending to more than 10 plants in 3 different stages, that's a lot of work.
> 
> If you stay at it you will get it. It will all begin to jibe for you at some point, and all the bells will ring in your head saying "that's how it works!" But you definitely need to make another investment in new lights. As technology age goes, those LEDs are just about obsolete at 5 years old. I don't know if the beam degrades over time with a LED like it does in chemical vapor lighting, but Im willing to bet you aren't getting as much light energy as they really need for flowering and vegging.



Great pep talk, HP and I needed one. Maybe 1/2 oz per plant :-( but the pot is great, tasty and smooth even though I have no idea what it is  Even with G13's tags, I still lost track.

Every time I try a rotation, it gets effed up by seeds that don't pop or pop and stand there like the walking dead wasting space. So I have kind of given up on scheduling things as odd as that must sound. I can easily move the plants in the net pots around, like whack a mole, I just lift from one hole to another. I also cut 5 inch holes in lids so I can even drop them in the buckets.  

As I pull plants to harvested out of the buckets, I replaced them with the biggest from the veg gang freeing up holes for plants from the seedlings tray
freeing up the trays for new seeds. I'll just keep filling holes under my shitty lights. I'm debating T5s now or stumble along (practicing) until I can afford something better

Incidentally, I'm hoping the plants in the wee trays in the net pots will do the air pot thing with the roots and be going crazy inside that clump of pellets. When I drop them into a hole, I'll keep water level (bubbled) up to bottom inch of pot.


----------



## Gooch

i think the key to a consistent rotation is cloning


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> i think the key to a consistent rotation is cloning



BWAHAHAHAHAHA well, that explains a lot, I can't clone either!


----------



## DirtyDiana

I have to tell you Pappy, I have truly enjoyed watching your progress.  It has been informative as well as entertaining!   By the way, those 5 year old LEDS--  were they in use during that time or just stored?


----------



## sopappy

DirtyDiana said:


> I have to tell you Pappy, I have truly enjoyed watching your progress.  It has been informative as well as entertaining!   By the way, those 5 year old LEDS--  were they in use during that time or just stored?



Thank you for that, DD, I get a kick out of your memes, I steal some for tweets. 
There's another thread of mine here where there's a lot of handholding and good information on maintaining a rez. Wish I'd started out here first 

LEDs pretty much in use, I'd guess 3 full years on, something like that.
I'm going to have to stumble along with them for awhile yet, I tried a 1K again for flower room and it was too hot in 20 minutes. I won't try HPS again until higher ceiling . LED tech and new stuff coming, maybe ceramic is cooler. The new LEDs want high ceiling too I'm reading.


----------



## Gooch

sopappy did you try the 1k on 50% or 75% or is it a magnetic non adjustable ballast?I run all my 600's at 75-50%


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> sopappy did you try the 1k on 50% or 75% or is it a magnetic non adjustable ballast?I run all my 600's at 75-50%



Magnetic dinosaur. But I must admit, I sure liked the look of that room when it was on. :-(


----------



## Keef

LEDs come a long way in the last 5 years !-- We have to worry about heat and power consumption since we in a prohibition state !--  so we have to use LEDs !-- We got some Mars Hydro 300 Reflector Series! -- The last group I bought were 5 watt chips instead of the prior 3 watt chips !-- We are kinda in the middle of changing things up but I try to stick another couple plants in bloom every couple weeks as plants come out  !-- D.D. and I are cloners !-- Still got a White Widow plant that turned 3 in August !--BPU-X-B.B. is coming up on 2 and they showing no signs of slowing down  !-- I know some keep a mother to take cuts from but I clone from clones !-- We take the cuts they root within 2 weeks -- Veg about a month then off to bloom !-- Say U got a 60 day finisher !-- Put something in bloom every 2 weeks and after 2 months something starts coming out of bloom every 2 weeks !-- Learn to clone -- peeps here got all sorts of ways to clone--We'll teach U !-- D.D. and I may not be able to help U much we run aero from cutting to harvest but Keep working on that rotation !-- We got more than 10 plants in at least 3 different stages !-- Switching to tie on labels because my biggest problem is making sure I keep track of who's who !-- Like Hamster Lewis said it gets complicated !-- Last cycle I wanted to make some more BPU-X-B.B.  seed !-- I got sloppy !-- By boy left me more seed than U can shake a stick at !-- Learned my lesson !


----------



## sopappy

Keef said:


> LEDs come a long way in the last 5 years !-- We have to worry about heat and power consumption since we in a prohibition state !--  so we have to use LEDs !-- We got some Mars Hydro 300 Reflector Series! -- The last group I bought were 5 watt chips instead of the prior 3 watt chips !-- We are kinda in the middle of changing things up but I try to stick another couple plants in bloom every couple weeks as plants come out  !-- D.D. and I are cloners !-- Still got a White Widow plant that turned 3 in August !--BPU-X-B.B. is coming up on 2 and they showing no signs of slowing down  !-- I know some keep a mother to take cuts from but I clone from clones !-- We take the cuts they root within 2 weeks -- Veg about a month then off to bloom !-- Say U got a 60 day finisher !-- Put something in bloom every 2 weeks and after 2 months something starts coming out of bloom every 2 weeks !-- Learn to clone -- peeps here got all sorts of ways to clone--We'll teach U !-- D.D. and I may not be able to help U much we run aero from cutting to harvest but Keep working on that rotation !-- We got more than 10 plants in at least 3 different stages !-- Switching to tie on labels because my biggest problem is making sure I keep track of who's who !-- Like Hamster Lewis said it gets complicated !-- Last cycle I wanted to make some more BPU-X-B.B.  seed !-- I got sloppy !-- By boy left me more seed than U can shake a stick at !-- Learned my lesson !



ditto re the LEDs, LEOs, and ******* Liberals tilting at windmills
if I get cloning down, I'll save for new leds, someone else here likes those mars, looking forward to that. 
Might buy another T5 but a crummy 2 tube daylight flourescent is kicking *** down there, almost as good as my 4 tube T5 ???!!!???

yes, i like your type rotation, if they can veg forever, I figure I just keep filling the empty hole in the flower room. I love my G13 tags but I use them to show the date I flowered the plant. I'm only growing one strain at a time. Too much drama with these 3 seed packs when you want 24 plants 

seeded grow? nothing worse than that 'tink' sound as a seed falls on the table while you're trimming but I saved a small fortune on seeds that time.


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> hey man its really not that hard you just have to stick to it, i go with the golden rule KISS that is why i use single bottle grow and single bottle bloom and add my own biostimulants, cause i get high quality every time without fail. I know you dont like monsantos etc... but its the highest quality materials and that is all that  matter s to me



single bottle? I thought you were a RAW regimen guy


----------



## Gooch

I use floranova which is single bottle nutrient for my base, then i use raw to spoon feed, i add extra potassium and phosphorus at different times to steer the crop


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> I use floranova which is single bottle nutrient for my base, then i use raw to spoon feed, i add extra potassium and phosphorus at different times to steer the crop



I'll never buy a single bottle again. Syrop. Had to shake the living **** out of it and I never felt it was mixed enough, horrible stuff. 
As soon as i get decent lights, I'm trying that pinwheel thing.
How hot does that ceramic one get?


----------



## sopappy

What's with these freaks? I'm thinking it must be the free autoflowers he gave me but *** did i do wrong here? I sprouted them and left them under veg like the regulars but these three were a total waste of time 
except for the novelty value i guess 

View attachment ***.jpg


View attachment auto.jpg


----------



## sopappy

I think there's something in the air here. Here's a top that's been sitting in suspended animation for about a week now 

View attachment clone.jpg


----------



## sopappy

my little colas
maybe a day or two before harvest here and this is pretty much the best I ever see under those leds. 

View attachment led2.jpg


View attachment led1.jpg


----------



## Grower13

nice healthy plants at finish......... congrats on harvest......... looks to be good quality bud......... LED growing has come a long ways.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> nice healthy plants at finish......... congrats on harvest......... looks to be good quality bud......... LED growing has come a long ways.



Thanks, 13.  Kinda light on the trichromes and odour but does the trick.
It's not a dense bud, quite fluffy but it looks great in a little plastic bag. I'm not minding this really. I had to buy before last harvest and the pot was DENSE, little rocks, quick to powder, I burn through it twice as fast as mine.


----------



## sopappy

Here's blueberry under the T5s 6K... I haven't been logging hours.
Last time i saw plants "reaching" like this, I had the wrong colour temp tubes.
These are about a year old, 6 months on I guess.
Do I need new bulbs already? 

View attachment please.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Rotation, what rotation? It has gone out the window. I'm just filling spaces under lights dropping 10 seeds at a time hoping for 8 healthy, and subsequent 4 females for harvest.
Each light has 4 or 8 holes (10 for seedlings)
I start 10 seeds at a time about a week or two apart when there's room at the inn.
It's labour intensive and I'm constantly on the prowl for males or thirsty plants just in pots   between systems or waiting for a hole.
But it seems to be working in some oddly satisfying way. 

View attachment 100_0042.jpg


----------



## Gooch

a little trick for you to blast some trichs, find bulbs with uva and uvb


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> a little trick for you to blast some trichs, find bulbs with uva and uvb



You mean those lizard bulbs you find in pet food stores? Careful with those, Gooch, you'll put your eye out. 
Seriously, UVB is nasty on the eyes I read somewhere and a quick google... yikes

UVA rays penetrate deep into the dermis, the skin's thickest layer. Unprotected exposure can lead to premature skin aging and wrinkling (photoaging), and suppression of the immune system. UVB rays will usually burn the superficial layers of your skin. It plays a key role in the development of skin cancer.

Nah, my problem is lighting alright but I'm going to just suffer along with LEDs and T5s until the next big thing


----------



## Gooch

yes i understand i have special glasses to wear that protect me, but that is also what drives the plant to produce the trichs


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> yes i understand i have special glasses to wear that protect me, but that is also what drives the plant to produce the trichs



I used to try to wear sunglasses in my rooms just to be on the safe side. I also try to wear safety glasses when I use the chemicals, they're sitting RIGHT THERE but I catch myself rarely wearing either, you can't do that with those glasses, Gooch. Be careful. 
Mom out!


----------



## Gooch

i never go into my flower room without my uv glasses i have 4 super hps and a CMH all are putting out uv and other spectrums not good for the human eyes, so for sure i never go in without em unless i cant find em then o well lol 
but the plants explode with  trichs, no joke


----------



## sopappy

Well, it's getting silly really fast trying to light them when they're all over the map 
like this but I sure am good at spotting the males and not so painful when yer making room for another up and comer
I also only harvest one or two at a time so I have to pull it out of the RDWC and sit it in a single bucket with that rinsing solution and a stone. 

View attachment gettingsilly.jpg


----------



## sopappy

these guys are overdue, got a bottleneck going in flower, my rotation has some flaws 
I thought those 4 big ones were all blueberry but that one plant looks like a whole different strain (maybe it is)
Got rid of free 3 packs of seeds, what a mess

STARTING TO FLUSH IN RDWC
I'm draining half the rez and replacing with ph'd tap water
3 days
draining all and replacing ph'd tap water (and floraclean sic? just using up bottle, don't think it does much)) 
3 days
draining all.... ad nauseum
I'm starting early 2 weeks to go, I want to see lots o yellow leaves this time 

View attachment multiple strains.jpg


----------



## sopappy

sure get a a kick out of this plant but I may have influenced a male here,
I put the wee pellets to help them shed their helmuts coming up and to block light 

View attachment blocked.jpg


----------



## sopappy

I keep thinking about 'member berries 

View attachment morning girls.jpg


----------



## WeedHopper

They still have red balls. :rofl:


Just messen wit ya.


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Nice setup sopappy!


----------



## sopappy

bombbudpuffa said:


> Nice setup sopappy!



I wasn't using my T5s until this place straightened me out, THG suggested cooling between canopy and lamp and HP told me which bulbs I should be using. That's just the surface... it's why I post so much, they catch things  

View attachment 100_0091.jpg


----------



## WeedHopper

Looking good my friend.


----------



## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> They still have red balls. :rofl:
> 
> 
> Just messen wit ya.



They're girlzzzz !!!!  I took so much flack over that crack I had to get them new shoes. Look at the leg on this one!

Seriously though, why the F is she stretching? that's a 6K HO...
should I be closer still? 

View attachment 100_0090.jpg


View attachment 100_0089.jpg


----------



## sopappy

I think that air pruning thing is happening to the roots here. i don't have enough room in the tub so the "air-pruned" one sits in a tray. Same strain, same birthday, 

View attachment 100_0087.jpg


----------



## sopappy

nah, they like the tub better

update:   that bigger plant in the tub turned out to be male
I've found the fast growers are usually the males
just like us, they burn out pursuing females 

View attachment 100_0092.jpg


----------



## johnnybuds

Cant Wait To See Them With Buds :smoke1:


----------



## sopappy

johnnybuds said:


> Cant Wait To See Them With Buds :smoke1:



sure, here's what's going on in the flower room. 

View attachment 100_0094.jpg


View attachment 100_0093.jpg


----------



## sopappy

I'm about to order 3 aquarium heaters, my rezeses have been as low as 14C with nothing really showing on the plants. I got away with the rooms a little hotter over the summer by keeping the water cooler. I wonder if keeping the water warmer means I can let the room get cooler. I hate to have to put a heater in the flower room.


----------



## Gooch

well be careful as this past flower cycle i let the temp swing quite a bit, 65f low to 85f high cause them to herm slightly since it was only the last 3 weeks or so. when using a heater i use a ceramic heater, i paid like 10 bucks at wallyworld they work fantastic


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> well be careful as this past flower cycle i let the temp swing quite a bit, 65f low to 85f high cause them to herm slightly since it was only the last 3 weeks or so. when using a heater i use a ceramic heater, i paid like 10 bucks at wallyworld they work fantastic




not so much the purchase of the heater as the cost to use it :-(


----------



## sopappy

Sure wish I knew somebody on the other side of the border, look at this rip-off.
I'd love to get 3, me and 2 for my lads for Christmas, hate to bother but pm me if able,
we see what cost to ship to me, add gratuity, I email transfer, no riskier than seeds  

View attachment grinder.JPG


View attachment amazon.JPG


----------



## Budlight

sopappy said:


> Sure wish I knew somebody on the other side of the border, look at this rip-off.
> I'd love to get 3, me and 2 for my lads for Christmas, hate to bother but pm me if able,
> we see what cost to ship to me, add gratuity, I email transfer, no riskier than seeds



 Wow that's quite the price difference


----------



## Grower13

I sent out a small bubble envelope earlier this week to Canada........ under 6 ozs........ cost almost $10.00........ it's filling out the customs form I don't like.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> I sent out a small bubble envelope earlier this week to Canada........ under 6 ozs........ cost almost $10.00........ it's filling out the customs form I don't like.



I can't see that huge a difference being the shipping, I've seen other huge discrepancies like that all over Amazon.ca 
lots of US stuff at reasonable exchange, some are crazy, i see it on Ebay sometimes too, just a ridiculous huge price, like they don't want to sell ???


----------



## sopappy

culling the herd... I almost wish they wouldn't give me free seeds. I've had 3 of these ugly things taking up space in my flower room. I had lost track of the strains, had a schmozzle of 3 seed bags, what a mess. I finally got sick of looking at these and threw them out. 

View attachment 100_0096.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Sitting in a tray, roots just poking out bottom, still top watering, I'm hoping it's just hunger, the other 3 are fine, fresh nutes tomorrow 

View attachment 100_0099.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Free seeds, thanks for nothing! I'm going to be bitching all the way through this one. Sweet something, TEN OF THEM... TWELVE week flower, 
they're already a motley crew:
one didn't come up, 2 walking dead, 3 sick looking, but look at those 4 promising males!

awfully pale.... Nitrogen again? 

View attachment 100_0098.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Budlight said:


> Wow that's quite the price difference



something fishy if you ask me


----------



## Lesso

sopappy said:


> Sitting in a tray, roots just poking out bottom, still top watering, I'm hoping it's just hunger, the other 3 are fine, fresh nutes tomorrow



Looks like N. Good luck with her


----------



## sopappy

Lesso said:


> Looks like N. Good luck with her



sure does, thank you, I've been too cautious on my nutes but now after reading up on this I'm thinking I got a bad batch. I see hints of it on the other plants too, hope you caught this in time  
is there a quick fix? foliar spray? I'm thinking I can pee in my rez from what I'm reading. That can't be right.

i thought this was interesting...:

You should gradually switch over to bloom fertilizers to ensure that you dont run into a nitrogen deficiency during flowering. Use the following fertilizer example for how to carry this out properly:

First Week of Flowering: 1 part bloom fertilizer and 1 part vegetative fertilizer
Second Week of Flowering: 2 parts bloom fertilizer and 1 part vegetative fertilizer
Third Week of Flowering: 3 parts bloom fertilizer and 1 part vegetative fertilizer
Fourth Week and Beyond: All bloom fertilizer


----------



## sopappy

Other items that might do the trick include:

Calcium nitrate (CaNO3) as a foliar fertilizer
Urine
 the rest of these won't work in hydro!! 
Fish emulsion
Bat or seabird guano
Cottonseed meals
Alfalfa
Manure
Feather meal
Fish meal


----------



## Lesso

Dont over feed her right away. Just get your ppms up to about 900 and she will come back if she isnt too far gone. You will see nice green tops. Those bottom leaves prob wont heal. Just dont shock her with too much all at once.


----------



## sopappy

Lesso said:


> Dont over feed her right away. Just get your ppms up to about 900 and she will come back if she isnt too far gone. You will see nice green tops. Those bottom leaves prob wont heal. Just dont shock her with too much all at once.



haha, I did good for a change... I didn't buy anything or try urine. But I did do the change last night, ended up at 920  but Ph this am at 6.3
I'd rather 6 but will leave it until tomorrow
She is in a tray with 7 others, roots just starting to touch so have been top watering, twice a day, 24 T5
upper plant still looks pale but other 3 showing signs at bottom!, I may have caught this in time, hope so   -thanks!


----------



## sopappy

another laugh... what the heck is this? Is this a seller that ran out of lids? who the **** would pay 100 bucks for a plastic lid?
wait a minute, I know this one, we voted for a liberal cuck pm who put the Q in LGBTQ (we think he's fidel's love child)  
all us cranky old white guys are trying to put a lid on this clown, law of supply and demand I guess 

View attachment lids.JPG


----------



## WeedHopper

Im a Painter,,i have more 5gal bucket lids then i know what to do with. And they make paint made for plastic.


----------



## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Im a Painter,,i have more 5gal bucket lids then i know what to do with. And they make paint made for plastic.



I remember using a plastic paint on window trim, Plastico or Plasmo or some ****, covered and wore like vinyl, could never find it again.

How would you cut a 5" hole in one? 
No jig saw, I tried a razor blade, scary, cut 4 holes, the hold the net pot but sloppy. and lids are HD orange translucent stupid stupid stupid 

think I can find bla....      oh , waaaaait
jesus christ, i can paint the lids.

thanks, WH


----------



## WeedHopper

Yesser,,,you can paint the lids.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Krylon-1...fault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n

Cut holes in Lid.  https://www.google.com/search?clien...p..1.8.2520.yfQxM5twyIw#imgrc=VWs95PUZqZY1AM:


----------



## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Yesser,,,you can paint the lids.  https://www.walmart.com/ip/Krylon-1...fault&beacon_version=1.0.1&findingMethod=p13n
> 
> Cut holes in Lid.  https://www.google.com/search?clien...p..1.8.2520.yfQxM5twyIw#imgrc=VWs95PUZqZY1AM:



I can't spend that on a hole saw for 4 lids but I'm thinking I'll regret trying anything else.


----------



## sopappy

***?
I have (8 plants in) a 40L tray sitting in a 60L rez with a control bucket connected to and same level as the rez with a 1' long 1 1/2 inch tube. 
When I read ppms in the control bucket, it is waaay different than ppms in the tray, 
say 600 vs 200, pretty big difference. It's not ebb and flow as it keep recirculating.
The pump is in the lower res moving the water to the overflow back to the rez.
Guess i'll fetch the kodak 

View attachment 100_0103.jpg


View attachment 100_0102.jpg


View attachment 100_0101.jpg


----------



## Gooch

if the fluid is constantly recirculating then why would the ppm be different? that would be my first question to answer. Is it possible not all the fluid is being recirculated?


----------



## Grower13

are you topping off your rez?....... ph and ppm's will vary greatly unless your resetting you water back to the same level/amount at least on  daily bases.


----------



## N.E.wguy

cutting holes in plastic cheap i would say a pair of right angle cutting vinal trim snips from HD or Lowes just start the whole with a paddle bit or some thing


----------



## sopappy

N.E.wguy said:


> cutting holes in plastic cheap i would say a pair of right angle cutting vinal trim snips from HD or Lowes just start the whole with a paddle bit or some thing



cute. almost as expensive as a hole saw though but a heck of a lot more usefull, thanks for that


----------



## N.E.wguy

i just did it in a 5gal top drilling 5 holes in the circle and used tin snips


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> are you topping off your rez?....... ph and ppm's will vary greatly unless your resetting you water back to the same level/amount at least on  daily bases.



yup, in fact, I think you were the one that got that ramp thing through my thick skull. I keep a daily log, am constantly having to lower pH (in flower and veg) They are all eating and drinking in all 4 systems, not much though, 10 - 30ppm per day. drinking is consistent, I'm topping up with pH'd water daily.

I discovered the discrepancy after a reset.. I was watching for the water to start overflowing so I could find my level in the rez and noted the pH and ppm while the lid was up ( I can lift it like hood of car)
Next day I check ppms and am dumbfounded to read 200 in that bucket when it was 600 day before, I lift the hood and it's 600 or close
You can see the hose connecting the tub and the bucket, the pump is submersed and pumps up to the upper tray constantly (with bubblers)
I'm actually measuring at either end of that hose,
it doesn't make sense, must be some weird flow going on, think I'll chuck the bucket.


----------



## Grower13

try un phed water in your top off...... just the water you start with.......... I don't use ph ed water for topping off...... un ph ed water should reset the ph and never adjust any thing til after you've topped off.........how big is your rez?..... what's your watering schedule? when are you topping off?are you pumping air into reZ via air pumps?

oh yeah...... go by what the rez numbers are.


----------



## sopappy

N.E.wguy said:


> i just did it in a 5gal top drilling 5 holes in the circle and used tin snips



HA! never thought of more than that first hole! I'm still buying new snips though, mine are 30 years old. I'm using the HD orange lids with panda paper
aprons to cover the hydroton and the lid.
thanks for the tip


----------



## sopappy

Gooch said:


> if the fluid is constantly recirculating then why would the ppm be different? that would be my first question to answer. Is it possible not all the fluid is being recirculated?



Yup, must be an eddy or something, some strange. 
I don't need the access point to top it up, I lift the lid, and I don't need the level indication either. (I can drop a ruler into the rez from the side like a dipstick)

the bucket goes after I get a plug , 
I just thought it was curious, my 4 bucket system doesn't do that, control bucket matches buckets.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> try un phed water in your top off...... just the water you start with.......... I don't use ph ed water for topping off...... un ph ed water should reset the ph and never adjust any thing til after you've topped off......
> 
> I take my clipboard and read pH in all 4 systems.
> I note how much the level has dropped... 1/4 inch= 2L for example.
> I now know the pH and how much top up is needed.
> If the pH is off, usually too high or at peak.... say 6.3, I want to get it down so I adjust the 2L top up with 20 drops of pH down.
> A crap shoot at first but I get close and will see pH of say 6.0 next day and it can ramp up again.
> If I use tap water, it's can be 7.6 to 8.3 and will increase my overall pH when I want it lower so I'm confused now
> 
> ...how big is your rez?.....
> 10 gallons approx
> what's your watering schedule?
> recirculating DWC, I reset when I've added 10 gallons of top ups
> when are you topping off?
> every night at 7pm after a couple vape bags
> are you pumping air into reZ via air pumps?
> yup, top and bottom
> 
> oh yeah...... go by what the rez numbers are.
> ya, for sure, I was thrilled at first when I saw they were finally gorging themselves, sigh.



see above for answers, thanks


----------



## Grower13

cut way back the air your pumping in to res........ you only want it mixed...... you don't need added oxygen in your water........ to much air pump into water messes with your ph..... it did mine.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> cut way back the air your pumping in to res........ you only want it mixed...... you don't need added oxygen in your water........ to much air pump into water messes with your ph..... it did mine.



almost a live chat here, G13
I do remeber seeing that but I wanted to keep bubblers going in case the pump fails... killing them with kindness again. 
I'll save a fortune on pH down, thanks.


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> almost a live chat here, G13
> I do remeber seeing that but I wanted to keep bubblers going in case the pump fails... killing them with kindness again.
> I'll save a fortune on pH down, thanks.




in fact a few of us have started to flume our water by puttin a small fountain pump in the rez on a timer to run on a timer for about 15 mins 30 mins before watering.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> in fact a few of us have started to flume our water by puttin a small fountain pump in the rez on a timer to run on a timer for about 15 mins 30 mins before watering.



Yup, I'm a flumer. I drop a pump into 40L green bins full of city water when I'm preparing my nutes. I like breaking the surface, relaxing sound, sure beats that monster air pump, gawd my poor plants.

On your oxygen tip, I just read an excellent article on oxygen and am flying off the deep end again. I 'm pulling all my stones out of all 4 systems. The water is constantly moving and dropping through the overflow, that should be plenty of oxygen. (but I'm just turning the air pumps off overnight first  

http://www.just4growers.com/stream/...truth-on-dissolved-oxygen-in-hydroponics.aspx

jeeeze, you'd think more would be better.
thanks for your help, G13


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> cut way back the air your pumping in to res........ you only want it mixed...... you don't need added oxygen in your water........ to much air pump into water messes with your ph..... it did mine.



i do remember reading those posts but it just didn't click.
all the bubblers are gone
it is so peaceful in there, all I hear is the water trickling now
I'm hoping what you mean by "mixed" is moving, it also falls down the overflow, not exactly a waterfall. Wish I could measure the O content.
If the pH stops racing up I'll know I reckon
I'm still not sure how you caught that when I was whining about my control bucket readings.

I pulled the stone out of this bucket, Here's the wee flume I'll use before top feeding the seedlings. Cheap tiny 12vdc pump, I use the same rig to top feed the other tray in veg. 

View attachment 100_0132.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> cut way back the air your pumping in to res........ you only want it mixed...... you don't need added oxygen in your water........ to much air pump into water messes with your ph..... it did mine.



while you're here,
my 4 bucket rdwc with a contol bucket (small rez) is always dripping (flowing) on 4 plants, I had bubblers in all buckets...
don't need 'em? with the flowing down the rocks and constant re-circulation...
here too? no stones?


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> while you're here,
> my 4 bucket rdwc with a contol bucket (small rez) is always dripping (flowing) on 4 plants, I had bubblers in all buckets...
> don't need 'em? with the flowing down the rocks and constant re-circulation...
> here too? no stones?



with rdwc you have roots sitting in the water........ if you have roots sitting in still water I think you need bubbles........ moving water doesn't need bubbles imho.


----------



## WeedHopper

Roots definitely need oxygen in the water to thrive.


----------



## Rosebud

Just stopping in to say hi, looks like your in good hands here.. mojo dood.


----------



## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Roots definitely need oxygen in the water to thrive.



Agreed but I'm thinking you can overdo it. I've been constantly battling my rezs to keep my pH down, using pH down every top up. I have recirculating water in an ebb and flow system and I had bubblers everywhere. 
I pulled all my stones and am recirculating or fluming.
I'm anxious to see pH readings tonight.


----------



## WeedHopper

Cool. Getter done. Yehaaaaaaa


----------



## sopappy

Rosebud said:


> Just stopping in to say hi, looks like your in good hands here.. mojo dood.



Hey Rosebud,    Have a seat and I'll scoot and get you a nice cup of Thrive!

Yup, I like my little corner here. I just write down everything I'm up to and sooner or later somebody catches something


----------



## sopappy

WeedHopper said:


> Cool. Getter done. Yehaaaaaaa



Just plucked another one this morning, might even have a whole oz on this one.
Blueberry.. great way to start the year.
aaaaand my sour diesel is going over real good, chap said it was best sour diesel he ever had and I guffawed of course, but it is pretty damn good
all these problems and the stuff still gets you high


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> Agreed but I'm thinking you can overdo it. I've been constantly battling my rezs to keep my pH down, using pH down every top up. I have recirculating water in an ebb and flow system and I had bubblers everywhere.
> I pulled all my stones and am recirculating or fluming.
> I'm anxious to see pH readings tonight.




set your ph at 5.7 and top off with plain un phed water and see......... ph should rise as plants use nutrients......... topping off with un phed water because your plants shouldn't be using ph down(lol)..... so  it should keep the ph ed at the same place except for the rise caused by uptake of nutrients....... that's why it is important to top off to the same amount of water after each watering.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> set your ph at 5.7 and top off with plain un phed water and see......... ph should rise as plants use nutrients......... topping off with un phed water because your plants shouldn't be using ph down(lol)..... so  it should keep the ph ed at the same place except for the rise caused by uptake of nutrients....... that's why it is important to top off to the same amount of water after each watering.



I'm not getting "unpH'd water"  You mean out of the  tap at 7.8 - 8.2 ?
I like to sit it in 40L tubs with 10 mL H2O2 24hrs and then pH to 6.0
(had pythium once but I can stop the peroxide but I figure it's harmless after 24 hours)

oxygen makes pH rise yet it's a good thing when plants do it,
how do I know when the rise is good vs too much O2
ie... how fast is a normal rise? 
or can I expect bigger ppm drops vs 30ppm now, 6 med plant.

I am getting the top ups right but I am not sure if I'm using the right top-up water  and you say no to ph down ?!?
Do I have to do a rez change if it hits say 6.5 in one day, it's wrong to try and correct it?

5.7 in both flower and veg? I'm too high right now (I can't believe I said that), I have veg at 6.2 but flower is okay at 5.7, buckets are flushing at 6, 
my ppms in veg are 830, 390 for the seedlings, flower is only 570


----------



## Grower13

what ever your stating water is....... I want you to top off with that...... no adjustment.


----------



## sopappy

Where's that chap who wanted to slow growth?  The largest of these are 2 months old.
I still can't read plants, I've been top-feeding these once or twice a day. 
I can ebb and flow these trays. Twice a day enough? 

View attachment 100_0135.jpg


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> what ever your stating water is....... I want you to top off with that...... no adjustment.



Aha! (light bulb on) got it


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> Where's that chap who wanted to slow growth?  The largest of these are 2 months old.
> I still can't read plants, I've been top-feeding these once or twice a day.
> I can ebb and flow these trays. Twice a day enough?



room temps this time of year can slow down growth......... how are you top feeding those?


----------



## Lesso

sopappy said:


> Where's that chap who wanted to slow growth?  The largest of these are 2 months old.
> I still can't read plants, I've been top-feeding these once or twice a day.
> I can ebb and flow these trays. Twice a day enough?


Twice a day would work.


----------



## Lesso

Are your ppms that low in flower for any reason? Its not uncommon to go as high as 1400 to 1600 for hungry strains.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> room temps this time of year can slow down growth......... how are you top feeding those?



by hand with a flume, drop the pump in to the rez and use the use hose from pump to water like a garden hose, I just pass over the rocks

I'll use the same thing to top water in the veg tray when the roots don't reach the water

PH readings are same as last night, no spike. I'm encouraged.  
I had them high at 6.0 though, I'm adjusting everybody to 5.7 tonight and taking ppms. 
Then I'm putting away the pH down.

THC laughs at me but I've seen or read  5.7 - 5.9 for flower
and 6.0 - 6.3 for veg..... you say 5.7 - 6.3 for both ?


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> room temps this time of year can slow down growth......... how are you top feeding those?



hooking up the heater tonight :-( 
It dips down to 60 in flower with lights off 
and it's not that cold yet


----------



## sopappy

Lesso said:


> Are your ppms that low in flower for any reason? Its not uncommon to go as high as 1400 to 1600 for hungry strains.[/QUOTE
> 
> dammit, mesmerized with pH issues, I wrote that so I wouldn't forget and I forget, I was mixing for 1000, that's troubling. I also think I got crummy veg nutes from the same guy. GET technologies, nobody knows them.
> Trying something new next go round.


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> Lesso said:
> 
> 
> 
> Are your ppms that low in flower for any reason? Its not uncommon to go as high as 1400 to 1600 for hungry strains.[/QUOTE
> 
> dammit, mesmerized with pH issues, I wrote that so I wouldn't forget and I forget, I was mixing for 1000, that's troubling. I also think I got crummy veg nutes from the same guy. GET technologies, nobody knows them.
> Trying something new next go round.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> what nutrients are you using?  we'll know what causing your issues once we start watching whats happening with your ph and ppm's now that we got you water the same every single time.......... you ever think about running 1/4 inch lines from a irrigation hub from inside the rez?..... put it on a timer and your auto pilot.
Click to expand...


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> sopappy said:
> 
> 
> 
> what nutrients are you using?
> GET Technologys two part GROW and 2 part BLOOM
> http://www.growingedgetechnologies.ca/
> finishing off jugs..open to suggestions...
> 
> we'll know what causing your issues once we start watching whats happening with your ph and ppm's now that we got you water the same every single time..........
> I'm still not at square one yet, I brought everything to 6.0 yesterday and botched my nute level or have a bad jug of nutes.
> I had to use pH down and I don't want to overshoot, tedious process
> 
> you ever think about running 1/4 inch lines from a irrigation hub from inside the rez?..... put it on a timer and your auto pilot.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> answers above
> I need a picture re the hub, I'm lost
> and why a timer? pumps are always on
Click to expand...


----------



## sopappy

pH seems to have been tamed !
I got turned around a bit trying to hit 5.7 yesterday and had to adjust this morning but this evening, 12 hours later, no ph jump!
however, they didn't eat or drink. 
the one small rez was 5.4 so I just re-did it to 5.7 860 this time.
I did no topping up.
youngsters 5.7 860
veg tray  5.7  860
flr tray  5/.7 860
buckets  5.7  90  (flush)

my meter must be off, how could I have hit 860 exactly in all 3


----------



## Lesso

Did you rinse it in distilled water before you measure each res?


----------



## Grower13

sopappy said:


> Grower13 said:
> 
> 
> 
> I need a picture re the hub, I'm lost
> and why a timer? pumps are always on
> 
> 
> 
> 
> you could probably get by with watering them 3 or 4 times a day for 15 or 20 min each time.........
> 
> always top off your rez........ it's the only way to know if your plants are eating.
> 
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-6-Port-Free-Flow-Manifold-MANIFRE1PK/202262488
Click to expand...


----------



## sopappy

Lesso said:


> Did you rinse it in distilled water before you measure each res?



nope, and yup, that does bother me dipping the probe in 4 independent rez.
damn... especially after enduring pythium once. I've been prepping all water with 10mL H2O2 per 40L and I try to wait a few days before using it. But I want to stop the H2O2 and use it for wiping down/cleaning only.

pH readings are already tedious enough.... 
but why distilled? Sure, 0 ppm but still ph of 4.0- 4.5...  I'm not seeing how it helps.

what about an alcohol wipe between readings or perhaps an H2O2 wipe with a moistened death rag that I'd forget and pick up without gloves on :-(

I use de-min over distilled to store the probe.
Procedure after (final) use is to swish in vinegar jar, rinse under cold running water, and store de-min water in storage cap.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> sopappy said:
> 
> 
> 
> you could probably get by with watering them 3 or 4 times a day for 15 or 20 min each time.........
> 
> always top off your rez........ it's the only way to know if your plants are eating.
> 
> 
> http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird-6-Port-Free-Flow-Manifold-MANIFRE1PK/202262488
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'm not using my ebb and flow tanks like everybody else. When I found I couldn't leave them flooded for 15 or 20 minutes, I switched to a constant flow. (All I can do is fill it up and turn off the pump and it drains right away)
> 
> I think I do get that topping off thing... what happens is I'll overshoot the mark adjusting pH at a reset and, if it's low, I add water to correct the pH and then throw off my "level".... but I'm getting there. That rainbird manifold.... (it'll be 40 bucks up here har har)
> I use the rainbow solenoid to top and start flow through cooling coils but that flopped horribly  used a small fortune in cold water!
> but I have the solenoid... city water to tap to solenoid to manifold to 4 rezes.... is that it?
> Can't be.... all tanks get same feed of water, smaller tanks would overflow.... or does the manifold feed individual plants in same tray on same rez?
> 
> I don't think I ever would have twigged to that oxygen thing... I even ordered fancy-*** bubblers with micro pores and my buckets and trays were washing machines. Not a good idea to do a lot of reading stoned... Amazon just showed up with two more huge bubblers... free to good home.
> 
> 13, Please keep an eye on my posts, I plan to post my readings until I get settled in to a routine and know what I'm doing -thanks
> 
> Ditto, Lesso... thanks, lads....
> 
> weehooo... saturday morning wake and bake coming up and a good feeling about your grow! MP to the rescue again!
Click to expand...


----------



## Grower13

"enduring pythium".......... we can fix that too.........


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> "enduring pythium".......... we can fix that too.........



I completely shut down and hand washed everything :-( 
no recurrence so far and I still smell carrots, nothing funky,  so I think I'm okay.

AHHA! the bag did the trick... 
you DO feed separate rezes from that manifold... you use those toilet bowl float lever things to stop flow right at the tank physically
I'm too little and 4 different solutions in 4 diferent reses..... bloom, veg, weak veg, and flush
clever idear tho


----------



## Grower13

too wet to long...... maybe warmer temps...... hopefully it will stay away........ if not..... a couple of things you can do to stop it.


----------



## sopappy

neat video, pretty cool little flow controls on that rainbird stuff, I was wondering how you could control that, the little taps don't work well. I have the solenoid and a suitable wall wart. I doubt I'll ever use it again. if you want it and yer not stealth, pm me.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Rain-Bird...E1PK/202262488 

View attachment Capture.JPG


----------



## sopappy

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrwk9SvdaLk 

View attachment 10yrsafter.JPG


----------



## Grower13

Why don't you use flood and drain system you got?


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> Why don't you use flood and drain system you got?



I read too much. 

It's easy to justify now though, I prefer flume to bubbles and pumps are always  on. In the buckets, the stream is from 1/4 tube on  top of the rocks. In the two tubs, the pump is in the lower pushing water up across and down the overflow, always moving (I'll lift a plant, look down and watch, like a gentle river flow, i love it and the splashing as it drops back in to the tank, I'm getting a sleep mask and a sleeping bag)

The only ebb and flow is the seedling trays that I actually have 5 week veg plants sitting in (waiting for a spot in the veg tray)
I find myself top watering those because I'm hoping  the roots are amassing in the rocks a la air pruning but I don't think it's working all that great. i move them to the tray and water a few inches away, top water for awhile.
I'm slowing growth but no room for them yet anyways.

My rotation is absolute insanity but I had months of seed problems, can't clone at all and simply throw a ton of **** (seeds) at the wall and hope some stick.

On the excel sheet... each square is a plant, there are 4 systems (rez)
middle bar separtes flower left from veg (24h) righjt
12 in flower, 24 in veg, reg seeds

understatement:
madness, not working as planned so far 

View attachment Capture.JPG


----------



## Lesso

sopappy said:


> nope, and yup, that does bother me dipping the probe in 4 independent rez.
> damn... especially after enduring pythium once. I've been prepping all water with 10mL H2O2 per 40L and I try to wait a few days before using it. But I want to stop the H2O2 and use it for wiping down/cleaning only.
> 
> pH readings are already tedious enough....
> but why distilled? Sure, 0 ppm but still ph of 4.0- 4.5...  I'm not seeing how it helps.
> 
> what about an alcohol wipe between readings or perhaps an H2O2 wipe with a moistened death rag that I'd forget and pick up without gloves on :-(
> 
> I use de-min over distilled to store the probe.
> Procedure after (final) use is to swish in vinegar jar, rinse under cold running water, and store de-min water in storage cap.


Distilled is ph neutral and non reactive. You need to wash the dissolved solids off of your probes between measurements....then rinse after use before you put it away. Otherwise your measurements are contaminated.alcohol wipes and peroxide wipes will leave residue...thats no good. Just a solo cup or beaker of distilled and a quick swirl of the probe is all you need. It may add to the tedium, but taking inconsistent measurements are more tedious and can be harmful. Science.....science i say.


----------



## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> too wet to long...... maybe warmer temps...... hopefully it will stay away........ if not..... a couple of things you can do to stop it.



I think biggest thing is water temp. I've been able to keep mine 65 - 68 ever since those awful days and great so far. I'm stopping my H2O2 except for death rag.


----------



## sopappy

the madness continues, I'm readying up to program my lights for this new lighting craze called gas lamp 12 / 1 or something, here's my new lighting regime.... I figure if it works, a hundred bucks a month, not a deal breaker but stealthier, I like how it hides the pattern better

12 hours lights on, 5.5 lights off, 1-hour lights on, 5.5 lights off in veg
then for flower, every 2 weeks, days get shorter until flower
11 hours on 13 hours off
10.5 on 13.5 off
10 on 14 off
9.5 on 14.5 off 
last weeks of flower you should be at 
9 hours on and 15 hours off


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## Lesso

A lot of variables in your lab. Do you have a control set up to compare results?


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> A lot of variables in your lab. Do you have a control set up to compare results?



Frankly, Lesso, I'm making this up as I go along. 
I got tired of getting rid of dirt (a la Great Escape) so I went hydro
been tinkering ever since...
those ******* things hurt like hell when you step on them too

update..... were you referring to the gaslight schedule?   run parallel schedules on sister plants? nope, I'm stooopid complicated now


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## Lesso

Hydro is my home chemistry set...just too much fun to tinker with.
And yes the gaslight thing. Side by side would be very cool to watch.


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## sopappy

dear diary
2 harvested, horrible to trim, lousy yield again
3 damn males, TWO IN FLOWER ROOM FOR THREE WEEKS GODDAMN IT 
(7 YEARS AND THEY STILL SNEAK PAST ME !!!)


UPDATE: horrible looking stuff but packed a punch, wish I knew what it was


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## sopappy

scorecard
Remaining 2 in bucket flush drank 2L, ph steady at 5.7
plants in flower tub drank 8 litres, pH dropped from 5.7 to 5.5, ppm dropped 100 
plants in veg trays drank a litre, pH from 5.8 to 6.2, ppm dropped 100 (not sure)
plants in veg tub drank 4 litre, pH rose from 6.0 to 6.1, ppm dropped 90
these numbers stlll may be skewed but those are the hugest ppm numbers I've ever seen!


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## Grower13

sopappy said:


> scorecard
> Remaining 2 in bucket flush drank 2L, ph steady at 5.7
> plants in flower tub drank 8 litres, pH dropped from 5.7 to 5.5, ppm dropped 100
> plants in veg trays drank a litre, pH from 5.8 to 6.2, ppm dropped 100 (not sure)
> plants in veg tub drank 4 litre, pH rose from 6.0 to 6.1, ppm dropped 90
> these numbers stlll may be skewed but those are the hugest ppm numbers I've ever seen!



3 of the 4 did like we are looking for............. plants seem to be drinking well........ just keeping watching........ we want a swing in ph from 5.6 to about 6.3.......... but with the numbers you posted above you should have happy plants and they should be looking good........ we want the swing to take 3+ days......... my flowering res takes 10 days or more to make the swing......... rez sizes vs plant size and numbers make a big difference in swing time........ btw....... i have'nt checked my ppm's in 6 months.


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## sopappy

Grower13 said:


> 3 of the 4 did like we are looking for............. plants seem to be drinking well
> 
> if it drops again tonight, i'll reset it
> 
> ........ just keeping watching........ we want a swing in ph from 5.6 to about 6.3.......... but with the numbers you posted above you should have happy plants and they should be looking good........ we want the swing to take 3+ days......... my flowering res takes 10 days or more to make the swing.........
> 
> is that when i reset? hits 6.3?
> I've been tracking the top-ups or 2 weeks, whichever first.
> 
> rez sizes vs plant size and numbers make a big difference in swing time........ btw....... i have'nt checked my ppm's in 6 months.



couldn't have done it without you, thanks

He doesn't check ppms because he keeps repeating his perfected grows.
Trichromes on trichromes fps, I'm not taking this bait 
He doesn't measure the ppms because he already knows what they are

update: pH dip must have been a mistake, tonight, all 4 pHs are sneaking up like they're supposed to but drinking only tonight, ppms barely moved.
might just be in my head but I do think they are looking better


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## sopappy

iQUOTE=Lesso;999452]Hydro is my home chemistry set...just too much fun to tinker with.
And yes the gaslight thing. Side by side would be very cool to watch.[/QUOTE]

My analogy is a railroad set but I like that lab thing, I bought REAL beakers too. 
I only have the two rooms so can't do that comparison thing. Time lapse of clones under the different light cycles would be very cool indeed.


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## sopappy

Holy crap, c-o-l-d out of the tap, 44F ... cheapest way I can think to warm it up is to sit a 5 gal pail in a big sink of hot water.

I threw 10 Jack Herer seeds down the kitchen drain.
Not a good idea to do this stuff stoned :-(

Growth is still slow but they aren't just sitting there !! pictures when I'm finished the resets, harvesting and slaughtering males. 

View attachment 101_0043.jpg


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## sopappy

These are regular seeds, close to 6 nodes, no alternating, no sex, I think they are 6 - 7 weeks from seed... too early to flower? what's the risk? 

View attachment 101_0029.jpg


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## Lesso

I would top them and wait for alternating nodes. Flipping before they are mature results in poor quality buds.


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> I would top them and wait for alternating nodes. Flipping before they are mature results in poor quality buds.



Damn, can't have that. Thanks. I'll wait


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## Gooch

yep true enough wait till you see alternating nodes, that signifies maturity to flower, good call lesso


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## sopappy

I'm at 10 modes and still no alternating.... is that normal?


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> I would top them and wait for alternating nodes. Flipping before they are mature results in poor quality buds.



ooooooooooooooooh I can still top, I missed that...
I let this batch go to 10 nodes and like to top at 7
I can still do that so am I watching for alternating on the branches now?


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## Lesso

Top them, lst if you have to. Just wait for signs of maturity.....alternating nodes or preflowers before you flip


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> Top them, lst if you have to. Just wait for signs of maturity.....alternating nodes or preflowers before you flip



Hey Lesso, seasoned greetings!

cripes, I keep forgetting to check their genitals,
I'm going to pay for that
but I HATE prying like that every day, you can turn them you know


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## sopappy

I wanted to avoid the plugs so I carefully stick wet seeds to a pellet and gently cover with a layer of pellets.
Nuthin' for a week...

I member those seeds in the fridge and sprinkle them over the net pots, within 4 days... chia pets
then I just sprinkled some over a tray

It's not quite bag seed, I had a Northern lights grow that was seeded 
but everybody was getting sick of it haha, well, it's back. 

View attachment 101_0035.jpg


View attachment 101_0034.jpg


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## Gooch

from seed it can take 1-2 months to start alternating/mature


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> from seed it can take 1-2 months to start alternating/mature



sounds about right, I plan 2wks rooting, 2 weeks seedling, 4 weeks veg
I hope that's true about keeping them in veg indefinitely.

I'm culling these already. I got ticked off at 10 seds that wouldn't sprout in hydroton so i just sprinkled a little cannister of seeds (from a seeded grow, gawd, I hope it was the cheese) across the 10 net pots laughing, a hail mary.
Last year about this time I couldn't sprout anything, I was weighing the rooter plugs ffs, now I have a chia pet

no room at the inn, serious cull coming, I feel terrible, I didn't mean for this to happen, I can even "experiment" on some, I feel evil
rather give them away but I'm sure some hermies in there

(any chance my hydro can shorten the 12 wk flower ?
what effing timing, sweet gold 12 wk flower are next in to flower room, another month to keep 50 -70 plants in veg!

on the bright side, they survived the transplanting and are growing in just the pellets, I could bust 

View attachment 101_0040.jpg


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## Lesso

Hydro wont shorten flowering time. Just veg time.


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> Hydro wont shorten flowering time. Just veg time.



darn, another fine mess I've gotten myself into
looks like I'll have to spring for T5 bulbs and flower in my veg room


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## sopappy

This is that black and white 6miL (?) poly, (panda film) I just started doing this over a couple CW tubes and no issue, it's barely warm to the touch.
But I'm draping this one over 2 4' T5 HO 52W tubes and the plastic does get warm to the touch,
I keep lifting it off the fixture and no sticking, it's outside the grow rooms, kinda cool part of the business, I like the protection for the seedlings but don't want to burn the place down either 
Can it be too bright for seedlings, they seem fine. 

View attachment 101_0043.jpg


View attachment 101_0042.jpg


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## sopappy

This is that black and white 6miL (?) poly, (panda film) I just started doing this over a couple CW tubes and no issue, it's barely warm to the touch.
But I'm draping this one over 2 4' T5 HO 52W tubes and the plastic does get warm to the touch,
I keep lifting it off the fixture and no sticking, it's outside the grow rooms, kinda cool part of the basement, I like the protection for the seedlings but don't want to burn the place down either 
Can it be too bright for seedlings, they seem fine. 

View attachment 101_0042.jpg


View attachment 101_0040.jpg


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## Rosebud

Wow, you got babies all over the place.. have fun. looks like  a nice spot for them


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## sopappy

Rosebud said:


> Wow, you got babies all over the place.. have fun. looks like  a nice spot for them



yup, and no room at the inn either.... I was thinking I'd get 10% germ from some seeds from seeded grows few years back and I got almost all of them up, males, hermies, gawd knows what's all in there....
all these nice new labels I got too and i have to leave them blank.


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## Lesso

You shouldve called this journal "sopappys box of chocolate grow" he never knows what hes gonna get....lol


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## sopappy

I laughed 'til I cried, Lasso, so true. Lad was just over today and we were discusing the merits of jars 6, 7 and 8 which were most excellent and 4 and 5 which, unfortunately are filler for hash joints.

It doesn't stop there either, my equipment mocks me.
I'm a bit of a packrat and saved the holes I cut out of the two inch foam board for the trays.
I knocked over a stack of them and I left that one in the corner just the way it fell. 

View attachment 101_0046.jpg


View attachment 101_0045.jpg


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## Lesso

Awesome. I like that guy....he looks he he knows what you're up to. And he approves


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## umbra

Lesso said:


> You shouldve called this journal "sopappys box of chocolate grow" he never knows what hes gonna get....lol


I certainly hope he doesn't call the thread that, that's one of my strains. BoC = chocolate thai x coco kush.


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## Grower13

umbra said:


> i certainly hope he doesn't call the thread that, that's one of my strains. Boc = chocolate thai x coco kush.


View attachment fg.jpg


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## umbra

yup, you never know what you might find


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## sopappy

what can I do about this algae? I use a little H2O2 when I prep my water.
First time I've run in to this and all i use is hydroton now
light is on 24hrs, I water twice a day
not happening in the net pots  
can i ignore it, they'll be transplanted in to net pots in couple weeks 

View attachment 101_0050.jpg


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## sopappy

I don't remember reading this in the manual. Cost me a probe :-( 

NEVER STORE THE pH ELECTRODE IN PURIFIED WATER

Storing the pH electrode in purified water (RO, DI, or distilled) will shorten the life of your pH electrode. The reference cell has a high salt solution. Placing the probe in purified water will cause the salt to diffuse out and the water to go in. Storage solution is not only formulated to maintain the reference salt concentration but also has chemicals to keep bacteria and fungus from growing in the solution.  If storage solution is not available then use pH 4 buffer.

http://hannainst.com/ph-electrode-maintenance-calibration-guide

milwakkee probe arrived and they say white vinegar wash and rinse under tap is okay
pH 3.5 storage is okay too


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## sopappy

here's some of those odd looking buds and here's where the bastid belomgs 

View attachment 101_0056.jpg


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## sopappy

his rootball was odd looking, only that one strand went anywhere, the transplanting is not going as smoothly as I'd hoped. I.m really regretting tossing all those seeds in the tray, i never thought that many would sprout! I've got about 60 more plants than I can handle, but great practice I guess and many don't survive long.

RANT
those shitty looking yellowing green ones are Sweet Gold, frail fussy things, free seeds, 12 week flower, thanks for nothing, who the hell ever heard of sweet gold, some dumb hard to grow cross with acapoco gold I suppose, nothing on internet
I couldn't have thrown THESE 10 seeds down the drain instead of the Jack Herer, nooooooooooooooooooo
getting off to a bad start here 

View attachment 101_0055.jpg


View attachment 101_0060.jpg


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## sopappy

I look at that odd rootball and wonder if there's any point in leaving the air gap in those tubs. 8 plants sit in 8 holes, 2" thick foam board, tray on top of reservoir, pump always on up to tray and back through overflow. No bubblers.
The plant doesn't seem to be using the air gap or are those roots taking oxygen from the air. I can't see them drowning if there's still the top 2 inches of dry pellets. (5" net pots)
I can also ebb and flow but I haven't been doing that what with the re-circulating but I can't see harm other than too much oxygen HA!


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## Lesso

I think you said it already about he roots looking wierd...no bubbler. Get rid of the air gap and add a bubbler. Or ebb and flow. But either way get rid of the air gap. These roots dont grow in the air. They need either oxygenated solution or a substrate. Otherwise they become more like stems like in the pic.
By the way....i come for the grow but I stay for the rants.


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> I think you said it already about he roots looking wierd...no bubbler. Get rid of the air gap and add a bubbler. Or ebb and flow. But either way get rid of the air gap. These roots dont grow in the air. They need either oxygenated solution or a substrate. Otherwise they become more like stems like in the pic.
> By the way....i come for the grow but I stay for the rants.



Check. I raised the overflow and have the water licking the bottom of the pots now, I say licking because it's always moving. I'm hesitating on the bubblers. G13 had me pull those and my pH settled right down. I also drain the tray to the tub 4 times a day and it re-fills after 15 minutes.


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## sopappy

Just hooked my RO that I don't really need but I like the fresh start thing.
I'm filling 2 40L bins (figure 4 hours each) to use next change.
No bubbling, the feeder hose from RO is at ceiling dropping 4'
In 4 hours, I'll drop in a flume and 10mL H2O2
(another 4 hours with other bin)
nutes, week 3 veg, 100 call mag, 200 A+B grow 
I have tried the myco thing, diluted syringed couple times over pellets
what am I missing? micro-nutes now? 

View attachment drip.JPG


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## sopappy

Here's the survivors of my Hail Mary seeding in hydroton attempt. Carefully placing the seeds amongst the pellets didn't work but scattering a handful across the top did, should be easy enough to replicate next time.
yes, that's a boot tray under cool whites, refugee camp, it's cold too
some are doing really well, and they are all about the same age +/- a week or so
(except those two pos sweet 12weeks) 

View attachment camp.jpg


View attachment trays.jpg


View attachment pink.jpg


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## Lesso

sopappy said:


> Just hooked my RO that I don't really need but I like the fresh start thing.
> I'm filling 2 40L bins (figure 4 hours each) to use next change.
> No bubbling, the feeder hose from RO is at ceiling dropping 4'
> In 4 hours, I'll drop in a flume and 10mL H2O2
> (another 4 hours with other bin)
> nutes, week 3 veg, 100 call mag, 200 A+B grow
> I have tried the myco thing, diluted syringed couple times over pellets
> what am I missing? micro-nutes now?



I didnt like my ro filter at first either. Caution though...i used a similar bin when i first started. I filled it with water and as i was mixing solution it burst like a water balloon. I didnt consider the weight of that much water. Prob not the exact one though. Just beware of any bulging or stretch marks in the plastic. Your Grow is looking good.


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> I didnt like my ro filter at first either. Caution though...i used a similar bin when i first started. I filled it with water and as i was mixing solution it burst like a water balloon. I didnt consider the weight of that much water. Prob not the exact one though. Just beware of any bulging or stretch marks in the plastic. Your Grow is looking good.



I'll take a closer look at those (and others) bins, yikes.

The waste was bugging me but I dump a lot in the washer and some jugs too. I also flush the membrane before (and after) use for 2 min,
I'm saving that water for drinking.
I remove 50ppm from city water, my filtres should last awhile.
and I may end up having to add back 50ppm to steady the pH

just read another tip to put a bubbling bucket between RO out and DI cartridge (bubbling removes CO2, increases DI life)


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## sopappy

Here's a shot of the ebb & flo trays under T5 next to the boot tray, top watered under some old crappy cool whites I had (and drained when boot tray is full). These plants are all about the same age... why am I buying T5s and bothering with ebb& flow? 

View attachment trays.jpg


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## sopappy

this ebb and flow with the nice big fat reservoir underneath and constant flow is doing much better. Those 2 on the left in big pots are waiting to get in to flower room.
The ones in the tub, again, are all about the same age, those big ones could be at most 2 weeks older than the others, must be males :-( 

View attachment ebb.jpg


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## Gooch

i like using ebb and flow with individual buckets, i am using 2 gal currently, but i am going to move up to 5 gallon next


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## sopappy

I just squashed a spider in my room :-(
turned on a pump and maybe a small pea-sized off-whitish body with many legs scurried from under the tray, I lunged and missed, man! fast! but got her with my thumb on second stab, yellowish innards.
where do spider mites come from?


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## Budlight

sopappy said:


> this ebb and flow with the nice big fat reservoir underneath and constant flow is doing much better. Those 2 on the left in big pots are waiting to get in to flower room.
> The ones in the tub, again, are all about the same age, those big ones could be at most 2 weeks older than the others, must be males :-(



 those ones in the middle are looking pretty nice my friend  keep up the good work


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## Budlight

sopappy said:


> what can I do about this algae? I use a little H2O2 when I prep my water.
> First time I've run in to this and all i use is hydroton now
> light is on 24hrs, I water twice a day
> not happening in the net pots
> can i ignore it, they'll be transplanted in to net pots in couple weeks



 When I ran a similar set up for my aquaponics, I found I had to keep the water level about 2 inches from the top so the top hydroton would stay dry. Hope this helps


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## Lesso

sopappy said:


> I just squashed a spider in my room :-(
> turned on a pump and maybe a small pea-sized off-whitish body with many legs scurried from under the tray, I lunged and missed, man! fast! but got her with my thumb on second stab, yellowish innards.
> where do spider mites come from?


Lol not from spiders lol


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## Gooch

sopappy said:


> I just squashed a spider in my room :-(
> turned on a pump and maybe a small pea-sized off-whitish body with many legs scurried from under the tray, I lunged and missed, man! fast! but got her with my thumb on second stab, yellowish innards.
> where do spider mites come from?



when spider mites grow up they meet a spider mite of the opposite sex, and they fall in love and have baby spider mites. God made it that way

:vap_smiley:


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> i like using ebb and flow with individual buckets, i am using 2 gal currently, but i am going to move up to 5 gallon next



Ya , I didn't think that through. I have to give the same to all 8 plants, I have to flush all 8, throw different strains in to the mix and you end up with a real mess. 

And I'm still fiddling with it too, I'm over run with plants so I'm improvising, it's awful, somebody should stop me.
It's why I'm not posting pictures, they look pretty beat up.


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> when spider mites grow up they meet a spider mite of the opposite sex, and they fall in love and have baby spider mites. God made it that way
> 
> :vap_smiley:



booooooriiiiiing, check out Mr Dummie' preying mantiseseses

Honey! I'm home!......mmmmmm, c'mere.....ya....oh ya..... babeeee ....................................................hey, what the..?


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## sopappy

Lesso said:


> Lol not from spiders lol



Took a little theatrical license there, but it was STILL scary. It's the only plague I haven't suffered.


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## sopappy

Budlight said:


> When I ran a similar set up for my aquaponics, I found I had to keep the water level about 2 inches from the top so the top hydroton would stay dry. Hope this helps



Why do you want to keep the top 2 inches dry? Are you using those plugs? I'm not, just the roots and the pellets. I let the level go almost to their necks and flow down the overflow for a half hour then let it drain and sit for an hour, repeat, all day


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## Gooch

sopappy said:


> Why do you want to keep the top 2 inches dry? Are you using those plugs? I'm not, just the roots and the pellets. I let the level go almost to their necks and flow down the overflow for a half hour then let it drain and sit for an hour, repeat, all day





sopappy said:


> Ya , I didn't think that through. I have to give the same to all 8 plants, I have to flush all 8, throw different strains in to the mix and you end up with a real mess.
> 
> And I'm still fiddling with it too, I'm over run with plants so I'm improvising, it's awful, somebody should stop me.
> It's why I'm not posting pictures, they look pretty beat up.



the reason to keep the top 2 inches dry is to stop mold/mildew from forming when light hits moisture, then bugs, etc.... i have never run a single strain and i have only run a few twice, i currently have 6 strains in veg 12 plants, Luckily i am part of a local growers group so if i have to many clones or need clones there is always an outlet


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## sopappy

I know, I know, great spot. It's temporary 
Look how fast that filtre is changing indicating colour. Absurd. I just got it. and doing that pre-flush thing too 

View attachment filktre.JPG


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## sopappy

here I go messing around again, I pulled the 8 hole tray out and am ebb and flowing once an hour. My veg room is overflowed with Unsexed and muchos plants, I have to cull but how do you cull cannabis? Males always look better.
I'm thinking this  is hard on the roots but I don't seem to be losing any. 

View attachment ebband.JPG


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## sopappy

what did that chap call it gaslight or something like that?
they look like vines in flower (or I did something else wrong but never seen this before.
Pretty much no fan leaves now (older picture) and yet she grows. weird. 

View attachment iternode.JPG


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## sopappy

On the bright side, I've got a good one in flower, (wish I could've cloned her)
I've never had a root this big under those LEDs 

View attachment myrutz.jpg


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## sopappy

getting ready to move 5 plants in to flower, 2 are suspicious males
I try to influence their decision by forming them in to hangman's nooses around their necks 

View attachment noose.jpg


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## sopappy

Gooch said:


> the reason to keep the top 2 inches dry is to stop mold/mildew from forming when light hits moisture, then bugs, etc.... i have never run a single strain and i have only run a few twice, i currently have 6 strains in veg 12 plants, Luckily i am part of a local growers group so if i have to many clones or need clones there is always an outlet



I'm pretty sure my algae thing TOTALLY disappeared when I stopped using those plugs (but jury still out, lots of variables)

Your group sure would have solved my accidental glut, terrible thing I'm doing to these plants, I'm an unfit parent :-(
legalize this ****, dammit, I'm not a criminal


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## sopappy

I'm hoping growing right from the rocks wasn't a fluke. I'd like to avoid those plugs,
I'm thinking that white on the stalk (neck?) looks much healthier 

View attachment rutz.jpg


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## sopappy

shoot.... that jug on the end had 300mL more remaining than it's mate.
Looks like two feedings with B only, you'd think I would have caught it with unusual pH or ppm reading but nooooooooo 

View attachment damn.jpg


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## sopappy

I'm pathetic. I have all these friggin' plants and I'm running out again already. Still at least 6 weeks to go haha, I'm screwed again, my pot never cures long, a waste!
I have a huge plant in my 4 bucket system, she is dominating that clump of green there. At 4 weeks too, I've never had a plant look like that at 4 weeks uder those LEDs. And all 4 plants treated the same of course. Unknown strains too. 
Picture has no depth, hard to see but the difference in the plants is amazing. 

View attachment yuge.jpg


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## sopappy

I must be stressing this lot, I'm getting more males than usual. Here are 4 more ready for a spin in the washing machine before they're stuffed in a garbage bag, the sneaky bastards. 

View attachment males.jpg


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## sopappy

This my flower tray, the 4 in back are either some realyy strange strain or the result of that gaslight weird lighting thing I tried for a couple weeks. I can't fgure out how they are growing, it must be all coming from the roots, no leaves. 

View attachment 4x4.jpg


View attachment gaslight.jpg


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## sopappy

things getting back to normal with these recently flowered
(going to be hard to rinse the 4 in the back) 

View attachment next4.jpg


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## sopappy

and it just all went downhill from there... too embarrassed to post pictures!
I think it's the seeds, I've tried 3 companies so far and the plants have all been sickly, common denominator... ME
but look at these! 6 down, 6 up 
I've seen so much crap come up in last few months that I was shocked at these babies. They're are just up this weekend and look at the stems! Shucked those helmets easily and are a luscious green. I have a fan on them and they just vibrate!. 
It's been so long since I've seen healthy plants, I don't want to **** it up.... 
chemdawg regular seeds, , that's 2 T5 HO tubes
the fan keeps temp to a balmy 76 and I have them an inch away 
too close?
(they are about 3" away in the pic, I moved them closer, let the killing with kindness begin)

Look at that sickly bastard lower left corner, it's about 3 weeks old for petes' sake
(I say it's the seeds because I'm hydro and have 6 - 8 different strains in the same tub,
I'm no farmer, they all get what it sez on the label, nothing fancy, lighting is not so hot but adequate.

I'm anxious to see if it continues with this supplier, I'm not doing anything different really, why the success?
my conclusion is, just like people, I think all lot of problems come from shitty seed 

View attachment 100_0037.jpg


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