# Root bound in DWC.



## mazda3234wd (Jul 12, 2009)

OK after fighting PH problems for the last month i decided it was time to get down to this tub and see if i could flush it out... Will try and explain this as well as i can... the tub is 20L in size, tho i only have 10L in at a time. this way i figure tubs only half full and roots are have a bit of air.. usually i get a nice little root ball at the bottom of the tub when the plants get large..( like in pic attached) although, ive never seen a root ball like this one, I couldnt even push into it with my finger and its taken up about 1/3 of the tub and its the shape of the tub to the point where its solid. although there is room above the root ball. this still wont help will it? cuz i belive roots always search downwards. soooooo.. I saw this and got more upset... Is this the reason my plant has been going from ph 5.6 when i change to 8.0 in 2 days? Im 6 weeks in Flower with a super silver haze and i dont know wat to do now.

One idea i had... there is still room above the root ball.. can i lift the root ball up and place some objects in the bottom of the tub so there is more room at bottom for roots to continue growing? and like pull the root ball apart a little bit? or do i leave it as is? im soo confused with this plant.. never has growing been this hard for me  I just wanna see PH sit at 6.0 for longer than 2 hours. 

First pic (old plant) is wat usually happens to the root balls, which i thought was fine.. the one i have now, if u can picture it, the whole bottom part of root ball is a solid. i cant take a pic of it cuz its too hard to get 2. took me and 2 mates to even lift this plant up... its huge.

2nd pic is why its soo hard to change this tub out... its kinda under the ground and there is no head height left in room. note to self... never letting plants get this big again.


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## nvthis (Jul 12, 2009)

Whoa.


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## CronyStoga (Jul 13, 2009)

That root ball looks SIC!! I'm running my first grow in a DWC system aswell and I wish I had those kind of root. Even at 3 weeks into flowering. Seems like what your doing is fine. I have a 20 L bucket where the water is filled up just slightly above the basket so the entire root ball is submerged into the solution. I"m nowhere near being a pro and I don't even know if what I"M doing is ok but seems to be fine. What I have noticed is that with PH, when you add nutz to the res. your ph will go down right?  Hence why I have to add ph up to bring it from 5.2 to 5.9. So I'm thinking that if after 2 days your ph goes up to 8 or so I'm thinking your plant is absorbing all its nutz and basically you have left is just water (typical city water ph is 7.7, at least in my area it is). or the plant has absorbed all the nutz but have gotten stuck in the root system explaining the solid mass. I've been told to do a system flush but in a DWC I'm not really sure how to do that. Maybe you can even help me with that seeing as you have more expirence than me. Possibly soltion is do a flush, wait a couple of days and add more nutz than normal. Of course being careful not to over fert your plant. Once again correct me if I'm wrong seeing as I have absolutly no expirence whatsoever and this is still all new to me..


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## StoneyBud (Jul 13, 2009)

That's one of the reasons I love Ebb and Flow. After 3 months of growing, I end up with a tenth of that amount of roots and a perfect crop.

It takes plant energy to create roots. If the plant is wasting it's time making massive roots, it's not creating stems, leaf and bud with that wasted energy.


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## nvthis (Jul 13, 2009)

Stoney, I hear what you're sayin' dude and see an opportunity to learn something here. What you say seems to contradict what I have heard about the root/foliage balance. Since they support each other do they not generally find that balance on their own? And if there is an abundance of root does that not encourage veg/stem/bud growth? (Conversely doesn't 'rootlock' halt vegetative growth until the problem is solved?) I was always under the impression that if the balance becomes uneven the plants would halt the growth of one or the other until balance was reachieved.. Not arguing with you here, just trying to figure this in my head and, possibly, pick up a better understanding of how it all works. Thanks.


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## StoneyBud (Jul 13, 2009)

Hey nvthis, there are lots of variables involved with root growth. I'll give you two very brief examples that are by no means the only two possibilities:

1. Soil Grow. Poor soil, not many nutrients and little for a plant to survive off of. As long as water and light are available, the plant will grow MASSIVE and extremely long roots with a huge network of smaller roots in an effort to find and gather nutrients sufficient to allow the plant it's maximum capability of growth.

2. Soil Grow. Well balanced, organic soil loaded with a perfect balance of nutrients needed by the plant. Perfect water supply and lots of sunlight. The plant will thrive with the least amount of roots. The majority of the roots it does grow will be for physical plant support, not the gathering of nutrients. If this same plant is supported with a layering of support screen that would eliminate any stressing of the plant via wind or natural movement, then the roots would even be smaller and less major roots would develop. The root structure that did develop would be mostly small, hair-like roots with lots of "herring bone" development.

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As you can see by the two examples that show *major* differences in how roots develop, there is a spectrum of possibilities in how a plant creates roots and what those roots are intended to do.

There is one more condition that can be a major factor in root development in Hydroponic applications. Hormones. What a huge effect summed into such a small word. Modern nutrient solutions are a mixture of "Best Case" parts, totaled into what the manufacturer hopes will be as good as possible for most applications.

However, as shown above, the application can be as varied as the type of plant, area of the world, type or lack of soil and amount of light.

These variances can cause an "off the shelf" nutrient to do some pretty wild things. In a Hydroponic DWC application, Plant support can be a deceptive variable. 

I've seen some that use NO support other than the tiny bit given by a 2" to 4" net pot full of hydroton. The poor plant wiggles, waves and bumps it's way into thinking it constantly needs more root support. 

As a result, it redirects a LOT of plant energy into the creation of MORE ROOTS that just float around in the reservoir without creating any additional support for the plant. The plant never quits producing these support roots. The roots aren't needed for the gathering of nutrients, they're created by the plant as an attempt to support itself.

If that same plant were supported in some manner with a well stabilized screen and/or support ties, then the plant will STOP trying to create that support itself and concentrate on gathering nutrients and stem/leaf/bud growth.

Massive roots DOES NOT translate into better growth. Quite often, it means just the opposite.

The variances between grow types, support types, plant types, pruning types, topping or not, wind stress, owner rubbing stress and nutrient contents is extreme to say the least.

If one were to supply proper and stable support to each plant so that it literally will not move below the lowest leaves, a nutrient solution that is manufactured to provide what the plant needs at any given stage of growth, (not twenty types of nutrients named to make someone think "oh goody"), and the proper light, then normal, nutrient gathering roots could be expected.

If, in a DWC application, the nutrients used have too many root growth hormones, then it won't make much difference what you do otherwise. The plants systems have been bypassed and "fooled" into thinking it needs more and more roots. If you use a nutrient that creates a massive root growth *regardless* of support or adequate nutrient supply, then I would suggest modifying or changing your nutrient types, strengths or quantities.

I hope I made this very wide scope of plant growth and the reasons for different types of root growth more clear to anyone who needed the information.

Long life, prosperity and lots of love. - Stoney -


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## nvthis (Jul 13, 2009)

Right on Stoney. That was better than I could have expected, and it totally makes sense. This gives me some ideas behind my own rootlocking issues. Thanks.


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