# Male Hermie WW Plant with LONE FEMALE FLOWER!



## mgfcom (Mar 10, 2009)

It is interesting: last night while I was trimming my male + pollenating I noticed the male plant had a single female flower: i.e. a male hermie? i.e. NOT a female plant with male flower, but male plant with a single female flower. So I cut it, and smoked it.

Tonight I post and BombBudPuffa replies with serendipitously good news:  according to a well-known breeder DJ Short, male plants that are hermies (producing female flowers) will breed to produce potent pot!

...This came serendipitously tonight after my own thinking and pondering over past many months during this DP WW grow (I am so thankful:  I have learned sooooooo much, so many nuances of the fine art of growing, over this past grow) that perhaps the MJ plant naturally has hermies as part of its built-in survival mechanism, i.e. even a lone plant (either female or male) will produce an opposite-sex flower in order to ensure that seeds will be produced and reproduction will succeed with next generation continuing the life given by the parents.  

Perhaps it is not something that should be so feared this hermie thing, everyone I read here recommends that these be pulled because they carry the hermie genes.  ...but what if MJ has these genes naturally, and such hermies (especially in females) have the same chance of passing on these genes as MJ plants that do not ever hermie.  Yes, maybe stress will facilitate hermie flowers to appear, but perhaps the genes and ability/likelihood to hermie is the same in all MJ plants? ~~ naturally!

What do others think (I would appreciate posts that do not have the attitude of "oh, you are so stupid", and attackful, belligerent, hostile, and hurting.


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## Lemmongrass (Mar 10, 2009)

Humans have hermmie genes naturally too, but you dont see us trying to breed trannys to make a super tranny child.


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## cadlakmike1 (Mar 10, 2009)

The comments I am about to make are not to be rude towards you, they are to help educate any new grower who accidentally stumbles across this thread. Unfortunately you have been grossly misinformed and you are misinforming others.

I have a lot of respect for Bombbudpuffa, and I would be very surprised to hear that he was advocating someone very new at breeding to use a male hermie as breeding stock. I read the comment he made and I think you took it a little out of context. I'm not familiar with where DJ Short said anything about male to female hermies, but he is a well respected, very experienced breeder, and I doubt he wrote anywhere for a first time seed maker to use hermie plants.

Hermies(Hermaphrodites) are plants that have both male and female reproductive parts. This is a trait that is often brought on by over-stressing plants. Some seeds are predisposed to be a hermie if they were made by a hermie plant. Very rarely will a female or male plant from good genetics turn hermie unless it is in deplorable conditions. After reading through mgfcom's other thread it does not surprise me that he/she had a plant turn hermie. If the average grower discovers a hermie growing in their grow room it should be destroyed immediately for several reasons. Firstly, that plant is going to produce little to no smokeable bud. All the plants around it will be pollinated and now produce seeds which will reduce the quality of that bud, every one knows sensimilla is better than seeded bud. Pollen is not easily cleaned, juat kill the plant before it has a chance to release. Lastly, all the seeds produce by the hermie plant will produce more hermies, an undesirable trait that should eliminated. You wouldn't breed to sickly runt dogs together, the same applies to plants, you want to be selective in pollinating and try to procreate healthier plants, not promote weak genes.  

There is a process to making feminized seeds which includes hermies, but this is induced by various chemicals and not for the weekend pollen chucker. Even those experience in breeding know that this technique is controversial and does not produce 100% female seeds. 

Cutting the leafs off your plant is very bad for it. The leaves are where photosynthesis occurs. The leaves are also storage centers which will often dump there nutrients to feed the buds in late flowering. Removing leaves is just bad for the plant, and should not be done by anyone(unless you are doing an advanced technique like topping, in which you still don't remove fan leaves). To make a long story short, DO NOT REMOVE LEAVES.


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## mgfcom (Mar 10, 2009)

well, cadlakmike, thank you that your tone was not rude.

Here is what bombbudpuffa said:  QUOTE: "According to DJ Short, males that hermie will breed potent pot."  It seems pretty clear to me what he is saying.

Yes, I agree seedless bud is better than seedy bud.

...but if stress were a factor in my male hermie becoming hermie, then my female should also be hermie - but she is not.  They both have been under the same growing conditions because they are in the same pot.

I don't support making feminized seeds, especially with chemicals because it is unnatural.

Yes, I agree (and have noticed) that the stems left (from the leaves I cut off) that I leave on are used as storage for moisture and nutrients.  The same is true of the leaves I leave on.  I really think everyone says this is bad because they have never dared to try it.  They just do what others tell them in books, magazines, and internet to not chop, not trim, etc. 

The female I have after one week of not cutting is SOOO leafy.  Those top leaves on each growing end I left on are becoming so big, and more tiny leaves and flowers are starting at each node starting to fill out.  I expect all these will turn into buds that will slowly begin to connect to each other as they fill out.

We will all know (as I will share my learning experience with you) what are the results of my trimming experiments.  I theorize that it is ok until beginning of flowering and that successful flowering and bud production can be done if trimming stops at the beginning of flowering.

Expand your mind, and consider other ways of doing things.


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## cadlakmike1 (Mar 10, 2009)

I'm not going to be drug into a silly argument with you. I know that trimming leaves is bad for marijuana because I have done it many moons ago and witnessed negative results. I have seen people do this(not nearly to the extent that you have done) and have very negative results. I know that over stressing a plant causes hermies because, again I have seen it happen. I am not quoting books or magazines, I am speaking from personal experience. 

I'd be happy to set my worst plant next to your best and ask any *experienced* growers which plant they would prefer to have. I do think people should experiment with different growing techniques, but there is no reason to test something that has been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt to have negative results. 

You have purchased very good genetics, with minimal help from you they can produce a very nice end result. They would be better left to their own devices than what you are doing to them.


> We will all know (as I will share my learning experience with you) what are the results of my trimming experiments. I theorize that it is ok until beginning of flowering and that successful flowering and bud production can be done if trimming stops at the beginning of flowering.



As you stated here this is your theorizing and experimentation. I am pretty confident what the end result will be. If you ever let enough leaves grow to take clones, take two, leave one unmolested growing next to one you do what ever you want to and see which has a better end result. I think as you are posting about this you need to make it overly clear that this is an experiment and based on no science. Good luck with everything.


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## Hick (Mar 10, 2009)

> Yes, I agree (and have noticed) that the stems left (from the leaves I cut off) that I leave on are used as storage for moisture and nutrients. The same is true of the leaves I leave on. I really think everyone says this is bad because they have never dared to try it. They just do what others tell them in books, magazines, and internet to not chop, not trim, etc.



hXXp://www.emc.maricopa.edu/faculty/farabee/BIOBK/BioBookPS.html <-- there lies your answer..
   "Photosynthesis" ... 

...and being a studied student of DJ Short, I can say with little doubt, that either you or BBP have taken that statement out of context. Hermies procreate hermies.. there is no question about it.  It is not a desirable characteristic in a breeding project.


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## Rockster (Mar 10, 2009)

mgfcom said:
			
		

> well, cadlakmike, thank you that your tone was not rude.
> 
> Here is what bombbudpuffa said:  QUOTE: "According to DJ Short, males that hermie will breed potent pot."  It seems pretty clear to me what he is saying.
> 
> ...



 With respect,it's not us that need to expand our minds to take in a 'technique' that is actually harmful to cannabis.

 I agree there are other ways of doing things but within a basic set of principles that have to be adhered to in order your plants have good basic health throughout their life so I really don't know whats making you fly in the face of common sense and removing the plants very solar panels?


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## CasualGrower (Mar 10, 2009)

These threads make my head hurt.......


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## Motor City Madman (Mar 10, 2009)

You cant argue with science.


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## mgfcom (Mar 11, 2009)

For those speaking of science, they should know that the scientific method is a method for proving/testing established science, and this is the essence of science:  questioning the established understandings and expanding.

...Instead of being dragged into argument with all the very vocal haters here at MJP who have taken little sound-bytes of what I have said out of context and who wish to be vocal in their criticism (not understanding what I have said entirely), I will just continue to do things the way that is best for me, and if I am feeling generous to help and enlighten others (considering the vocal haters here why should I help them?) then I will let the pictures of the buds speak for themselves.


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## Hick (Mar 11, 2009)

mgfcom said:
			
		

> For those speaking of science, they should know that the scientific method is a method for proving/testing established science, and this is the essence of science:  questioning the established understandings and expanding.
> 
> ...Instead of being dragged into argument with all the very vocal haters here at MJP who have taken little sound-bytes of what I have said out of context and who wish to be vocal in their criticism (not understanding what I have said entirely), I will just continue to do things the way that is best for me, and if I am feeling generous to help and enlighten others (considering the vocal haters here why should I help them?) then I will let the pictures of the buds speak for themselves.



Please... do flatter us with your blown up opinion of yourself and you generous help.... 
The "vocal haters" that you speak down to, are the premier growers with experience and knowledge.  Facts are facts... removing leave from your plants during veg or flower, is nothing less than a form of deprivation/starvation non-conducive to their health or growth. It isn't a matter of "opinion". It is scientific fact and it is called Photosynthesis.
  Selectively breeding hermaphrodite genetics into any gene pool is counter productive to the further advancement of stable, drug quality strains. Hermies dominate feral hemp, thus producing just that.."hemp".. 
  You feel free to venture down that path of self destruction, but do not expect the experienced and knowledgeable growers to set idly by while you attempt to pass along incorrect or destructive  advice to those prone to accepting it, just because "you" say it is okay, when all of science says it "ain't so"...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 11, 2009)

mgfcom said:
			
		

> For those speaking of science, they should know that the scientific method is a method for proving/testing established science, and this is the essence of science:  questioning the established understandings and expanding.
> 
> ...Instead of being dragged into argument with all the very vocal haters here at MJP who have taken little sound-bytes of what I have said out of context and who wish to be vocal in their criticism (not understanding what I have said entirely), I will just continue to do things the way that is best for me, and if I am feeling generous to help and enlighten others (considering the vocal haters here why should I help them?) then I will let the pictures of the buds speak for themselves.



I'm sorry, but I don't quite understand your attitude.  No one is "hating" on you.  You came here asking questions of the more experienced growers and then dis them for telling you what you asked to be told???????

No one is taking "sound-bytes" of what you have said and I believe that most of us _*do*_ understand what you have said.  There is just no other way to put it:  Pulling off fan leaves is bad for a plant.  And there are no good hermies.


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## Smoko (Mar 12, 2009)




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