# LEDs



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 19, 2007)

Anyone know what type of red leds I would need? Will these work?


----------



## Growdude (Oct 19, 2007)

Alienbait is the LED man, I dont know.


----------



## audix2359 (Oct 19, 2007)

Since my temps have been really hard to control with my HID light, I've been really looking into LED set up's.  Ebay has some good deals but the best cost per light bulb I could find was here:

http://www.gro-tek.com/SALES.html

The 24 pack works out to 18 cents per light, while the 12 pack bud buster works out to 22 cents per light.  When you're talking 1500+ lights, that makes a big difference.  

Here is a link to an LED grow that's still going on.  

http://www.ledgrow.eu/

It looks like they're using about 16 watts per plant.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 20, 2007)

I found some very affordable ones. I might invest in 10 of them:hubbaafter a trial run with a couple, of course). Another link, better one.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 24, 2007)

This lil sucker is brighter than I thought it would be! 70 leds and I thinkk i'd need 5(or thats what i'm going to get to play with) of them for one plant. Looks cool, actually lights up the whole room, not as much as your reg house bulb for sure though.


----------



## mastersativa (Oct 24, 2007)

Looking sweet BBP, are those the par 30 90 led blue ones? I was also looking at those ones on ebay but was wondering how they actually perform. Keep up the good work professor!


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 24, 2007)

par30 70 LED 3.7 watt 110v


----------



## mastersativa (Oct 24, 2007)

I cant wait to see how you come out with these leds. I think i am more excited about watchin your grow than mine, lol.


----------



## AlienBait (Oct 24, 2007)

That light looks nice.

Don't forget the reds.   You will need around a 5-1 red-blue ratio.


----------



## Rdrose (Oct 25, 2007)

This is very interesting BBP.  I am really interested in how this works for you!   When are you going to start?


----------



## md.apothecary (Oct 25, 2007)

I just got all my LED lights in yesterday. I haven't built my fixture yet, but I purchased mine on ebay. 8 LED bulbs, at 13 watts each bulb, over 100watts total power, enough to fill a 32sq. ft room. This is strictly for my flowering room, as I have more reds than blue. It's like over 1300 individual LED bulbs. I hope to get the rig up and running soon! I have some plants (bag seed) ready for testing as soon as it's done! 


That blue looks nice! If this works out, I am thinking of buying blues for the veg room.


edit: BTW, The 8 lamps is for 32sq. ft, BUT.... I will be putting them in a 6sq. ft area!  Super-bud, here I come!


----------



## lowrydergrower775 (Oct 25, 2007)

ive decided to do a mini grow box grow with leds lol maybe 1 or 2 sq ft but over loaded with light


----------



## lowrydergrower775 (Oct 25, 2007)

mmmm


----------



## lowrydergrower775 (Oct 25, 2007)

sorry for posting again :stuff-1125699181_i_      lol click on see it alot better


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 25, 2007)

> When are you going to start?


When I get more lights. Probably be a while. 





> see it alot better


420nm(lol) in blue and 660nm in red is the best.


----------



## lowrydergrower775 (Oct 25, 2007)

420 imagine that lol


----------



## JerseyFreshB (Oct 25, 2007)

Do these lights put out much heat BBP? Maybe i could get a few to use a supplemental light along wityh my HPS...Think it would be worth it?


----------



## md.apothecary (Oct 25, 2007)

JerseyFreshB said:
			
		

> Do these lights put out much heat BBP? Maybe i could get a few to use a supplemental light along wityh my HPS...Think it would be worth it?



LEDs do NOT put off hardly any heat at all. Warm to the touch. Super cool (double meaning intended.)

check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED for info on LEDs in general. Good read... if you can understand it.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 25, 2007)

> Do these lights put out much heat BBP?


I'd say a tenth of what a fluoro does so no...not much at all.


----------



## octobong007 (Oct 25, 2007)

:watchplant: just waiting on those results from bombbud...at the second, i'm working on building a "possible" stealth box with cathodes and led's....my led's should be in any day now.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 25, 2007)

Okay, just ordered 2 PAR38 80 red leds. Thats puts me at about 10w and 230 leds. I'll get three more then I think i'll be set for veg.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 26, 2007)

They were out of those bulbs so I ordered a par30 120 led and they were out of those too. They gave me a free upgrade to par38 120 led though so i'm very happy! Will keep this updated.


----------



## audix2359 (Oct 26, 2007)

Looks good, I'll definitely be following your experiment.  

I should be getting my LED stealth box up and running this weekend.  I've already got plants that have broken ground so I just need to get the stealth box built and the plants moved.  I'm going to run at least 140 watts of LED light for 5 square feet.  In total, I'll have 225 watts of LED's to play with and if I can cram more light into the box I definitely will - room might be be an issue.  Either way, I'll have around 2000 LED's for the area so I'm pretty excited.


----------



## Red-Eye Jedi (Oct 28, 2007)

Does anyone know if anyplace like Lowes or Home Depot sell LED's like thiese?


----------



## audix2359 (Oct 28, 2007)

No, they do not.  Google LED grow lights for some links or try Ebay.


----------



## DankCloset (Oct 28, 2007)

iam interested in this now, i want to see some results first before i try it


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 29, 2007)

Got the 120 led bulb today. I added it to my blue bulb for a total of 190 leds which I have germing(Mr.CultivationJunkie) some AK48xPurpWidow. 1st pic is lights on, 2nd lights off. Btw, I started these the day before yesterday, one sprouted today.


----------



## JerseyFreshB (Oct 29, 2007)

Sweet... are you going to make this a grow journal for them?

I'm interested in the results..


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 29, 2007)

> are you going to make this a grow journal for them?


I'm going to update on the leds here. I'm not sure if i'm going to have enough leds to do a full led grow from start to finish though. I'll keeep them under leds until the stretch gets too bad.


----------



## DankCloset (Oct 29, 2007)

yeah thats what i was wondering about, have u confirmed it?


----------



## AlienBait (Oct 29, 2007)

Right On, Man!  :woohoo: 

This will be fun to watch.  I'm curious to see if your leaves get all twisty.  I've seen that happen when people veg with LEDs.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 29, 2007)

> yeah thats what i was wondering about, have u confirmed it?


Confirmed what?





> This will be fun to watch.


Not as fun as doing it. I'm kind of at a cross roads. I know i'm going to get more but I don't know if I want to concentrate on veg or flower. I'll probably go with a few more blues and stick to veg for the moment...we'll see.


----------



## audix2359 (Oct 30, 2007)

I'll definitely be following.


----------



## DankCloset (Oct 30, 2007)

DankCloset said:
			
		

> yeah thats what i was wondering about, have u confirmed it?



the stretching


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Oct 30, 2007)

DankCloset said:
			
		

> the stretching


:doh:Sorry....they just popped soil yesterday(1) and today(2) so not yet. I decided to go with more blue than red and stick to vegging with the leds. I noticed that my seedlings seem to like the blue a lil better so I ordered a PAR38 80 led for a total of 270 leds. My goal is 1000(8 blues, 4 reds) then i'll see how well these suckers veg a single plant.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 2, 2007)

Still waiting on that LED bulb:watchplant:. The plant I have vegging under the 2 I have isn't getting enough light so I hope it's here today. I've had these leds on continuously since they arrived and they are still waaaaay cooler than a cfl. I'll post pics of the plant when my other light arrives.


----------



## DankCloset (Nov 2, 2007)

cool beans, cant wait to see, gotta kick that ups driver in the @#% to get him moving lol


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 4, 2007)

After a lil research it seems *violet leds will work better than blue leds*. Violets are closer to the 420nm mark than any blue is. The thing is, violets are hard to come by unless you construct it yourself. My plant is growing very slow and has twisted, ugly leaves but it's growing and not stretching too much. Heres some pics under the led lighting then reg lighting.


----------



## AlienBait (Nov 4, 2007)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> My plant is growing very slow and has twisted, ugly leaves but it's growing and not stretching too much.


 
If the leaves are all twisted, you need to pull the light away from the plant a little (or so I've been told).


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 4, 2007)

> If the leaves are all twisted, you need to pull the light away from the plant a little (or so I've been told)


Why would this help?


----------



## AlienBait (Nov 4, 2007)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> Why would this help?


 
I don't have experience with this, like I said earlier it is what I was told, but when the leaves start twisting they are trying to get away from the light because they are just getting too much.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 5, 2007)

I have heard it too. Your leaves will actually stand straight up once they've reached beyond the light (above the actual light source). If the light is too close, it's receiving light directly from the source in all sorts of directions, but the direction it receives most causes them to get gnarly and twist towards the light. As a matter of fact... I just noticed that my plant was growing between my two flourex lamps in my veg area and the leaves were all twisted and crazy looking. I need to see if I can get a pic.


----------



## Mr.Unsleep (Nov 5, 2007)

I have two questions.

1) I have a 150,000 lumen hps bulb, and it's about 14-16 inches from my canopy, covering let's say, 3' x2' spot- 2 of my plants have twisting leaves happening on the top growth canopy. Does the curling apply to this as well? Just too close?

2) Secondly, How much $$ are the arrays you're using Bombbudda? I'm curious in this growing with LED's and I might take a stab at it.  I was also thinking that LED's could be added to a grow under HPS for say, side growth or lighting the undergrowth nearer the bottom?  I'm really liking the no heat factor involved. You could maximize bud production spots pretty easily this way, imo. But LED's have like little penetration tho, right?


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 5, 2007)

> Does the curling apply to this as well? Just too close?


You have a 1000w(?) in 6 square ft, 14-16 inches from your plants...definitely too close.





> How much $$ are the arrays


I'm averaging around $20 a bulb and I need around 10 so they are expensive.





> LED's have like little penetration tho, right?


Very lil.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 7, 2007)

Growth is so slow. Probably because They are under around 10w of lighting. Twisted leaves but hardly any stretch at all. I'm going to give her some of my chlorophyll stew today and see how she responds.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 7, 2007)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> You have a 1000w(?) in 6 square ft, 14-16 inches from your plants...definitely too close.I'm averaging around $20 a bulb and I need around 10 so they are expensive.Very lil.



This is true, however in energy costs alone the first year, you will most likely make up for the cost in $200 worth of LEDS. 

No fans required and depending on your wattage, MUCH less than running a single 250w HPS for a year at say 4300 HOURS!! (OUCH! That's just a 12 HR FLOWER CYCLE!) That's almost the life of the HPS bulb! and you'd REALLY want to replace an HPS or MH bulb after that kind of use as it does start to fade and burn out as it ages.

So really, in the long run, that's not a bad deal.


----------



## Mr.Unsleep (Nov 7, 2007)

What's the life span of an LED? I know they burn out as well.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 7, 2007)

Mr.Unsleep said:
			
		

> What's the life span of an LED? I know they burn out as well.



I've posted an FAQ and energy/price saving chart here

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19343

Q. How long do LEDs last?
A. LEDs are rated by manufacturers to operate under normal conditions for approximately 10 years or 100,000 hours of continuous use. As LEDs get older, they tend to dim and fade but aren't susceptible to blinking like incandscent or fluorescents.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 7, 2007)

All i'm going to say is i'm not impressed so far. Besides the heat and how long they last...they don't touch my hids. I'm going to get more though so we'll see when I have the right amount. Btw, i'm also going to play with diff spectrums than red and blue...namely amber.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 7, 2007)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> All i'm going to say is i'm not impressed so far. Besides the heat and how long they last...they don't touch my hids. I'm going to get more though so we'll see when I have the right amount. Btw, i'm also going to play with diff spectrums than red and blue...namely amber.



Where was your grow link again? Did you have pictures of your LED setup? I want to see it compared to mine.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 7, 2007)

It doesn't compare. I have 3 led bulbs that equal 270 leds.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 8, 2007)

I put a test plant under 8 LED lamps (1300+ LEDs) and noticed a new birth of a node and set of leaflets. This was overnight. So, it will be interesting to see it tomorrow on Day 2 of putting it under LED's.

However, this test is going to be mainly for flowering this bagseed plant. I am just waiting for the light barrier material to arrive on friday before doing a flower cycle. But am using the LEDs for veg on the plant until it arrives, and to acclimate the plant to the new type of lights. Looks good so far.

Must say I was super impressed by the temp difference between LED and CFL. You can literally touch the LEDs with no burns. temp is 4 degrees cooler on the LED side of the closet than is the CFL side.  I personally had a problem with heat and venting with my HPS so I had no choice but to look at alternatives.

i THINK once you get enough lights, you'll probably get it down solid. Just let me know when you do!


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 13, 2007)

Has anyone used the cree leds? If so, how do they compare to reg leds? I'm thinking about trying a feew of them.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 14, 2007)

I was looking at those a while back, however I didn't get them because they looked too small for a good grow area. I know now after having my LED's running for a week or more that they are extremely directional. I was able to mount 6 of the lights I had in flexible flood lamp fixtures to adjust where they're pointing, but these are very small lights, and I was told that you'd have to also purchase an extension of 1.5" to fit into any socket other than a standard lamp fixture. I don't know how true that is, but that's the rumor....

OUCH! That guy does not combine shipping! $8.99 S/H PER BULB?! outrageous!


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 16, 2007)

I just ordered a uv led bulb and an amber led bulb. The uv is 385-395nm and the amber is 600nm. We'll see if the extra wavelengths help.


----------



## AlienBait (Nov 16, 2007)

Great!  Looking forward to seeing the results.

A word of caution:  Do not look at the UV LEDs when they are plugged in, it could damage your eyes.  OR, wear some glasses that protect against UV light.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 16, 2007)

AlienBait said:
			
		

> Great!  Looking forward to seeing the results.
> 
> A word of caution:  Do not look at the UV LEDs when they are plugged in, it could damage your eyes.  OR, wear some glasses that protect against UV light.



Absolutely! Retinal burn doesn't feel good, AND it's permanent in most cases! But looking directly at any LED light is painful! I was doing some work under my lights the other night trying to adjust the height of my fixture and the damn timer kicked on when I was looking at the red/blue combo lights...


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 16, 2007)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> I just ordered a uv led bulb and an amber led bulb. The uv is 385-395nm and the amber is 600nm. We'll see if the extra wavelengths help.



Where did you order from? How much??

Are they PAR38?


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 16, 2007)

> Where did you order from? How much??


Ebay. They were like 5 bucks apiece w/o shipping.





> Are they PAR38?


I doubt it.


----------



## audix2359 (Nov 16, 2007)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> I put a test plant under 8 LED lamps (1300+ LEDs) and noticed a new birth of a node and set of leaflets. This was overnight. So, it will be interesting to see it tomorrow on Day 2 of putting it under LED's.
> 
> However, this test is going to be mainly for flowering this bagseed plant. I am just waiting for the light barrier material to arrive on friday before doing a flower cycle. But am using the LEDs for veg on the plant until it arrives, and to acclimate the plant to the new type of lights. Looks good so far.
> 
> ...



I know you've said that you got your LED's off of Ebay, do you mind posting a picture of the bulb?  I'm pretty sure I got the same LED bulbs that you did.  Are you using 24/0 lighting?

I'm curious because I gave up on the LED's that I have for my current grow.  I'd like to use them in the future for all the energy and heat advantages so the more info the better


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 16, 2007)

I will get pictures tonight, got to wait for the light cycle to go "on" so I can open the "Bat Cave". I purchased a set of 8 for $200 on ebay, 1344 LED's or something, each was 13watts... I just ordered some supplemental lighting 

PAR38 Amber, Green, and a WARM WHITE (Full Spectrum) to hopefully help with the flowering process. So far tons of veg growth when they were on 18/6, but as of lastnight they went on to 12/12 for flowering. Of course, it won't be on for another 9hrs or so.


----------



## audix2359 (Nov 16, 2007)

Thanks, I know what you're talking about.  I've got pretty much the same set up.  I'd love to follow a grow log if you're doing one - I could stand to learn a thing or two about growing effectively using LED's.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 19, 2007)

I got the uv bulb today. For 18 leds it is bright. I'm going to try and build a lil grow box for my leds later tonight out of a fish aquarium stand. I'll post pics when it's finished.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 20, 2007)

i wasn't able to get my pics yet, since I ordered a green, amber, and warm white light to add to my mix. I will get pics on Weds. but the lights I have now are definitely working for VEG. but not doing much for flower... hoping to add some umpf! soon.

can't wait to see the UV light setup!


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 20, 2007)

Took me a couple hours to cover this thing...I was watching tv and smoking. Its efficient enough. Just need more leds. Should have a couple more arriving today. 1st pic- the box glowing in the dark. 2nd pic-the outside...ugly...I know. 3rd pic- inside. 4th-inside.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 20, 2007)

is that an old computer case? or like a metal stand turned into a box? looked rather large to be a PC case. Anyway looks good... what lamps do you have coming again.. what colors?

I am thinking of getting a friend of mine and myself a 150w hps for flower and just building a seedling/clone box with the LED's if all else fails.

My setup would include a shelf full of led's, two 65w fluorex lamps for mother plant vegg'n, and possibly one 150w HPS for flower'n

but your setups looking good for now!


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 20, 2007)

> is that an old computer case? or like a metal stand turned into a box?


It's a metal aquarium stand.





> what lamps do you have coming again.. what colors?


I have 2 24 led bulbs, 1 blue, one amber, on the way. I'm really only trying to veg one plant under them but my flower room has run out of room for some reason.


----------



## bombbudpuffa (Nov 23, 2007)

I had to add a 15w fluoro tube and 26w cfl for a lil extra lighting. I ordered a high powered cree led bulb thats 3 watts and 2 blue cold cathodes(thanks AlienBait) that i'm going to try and replace the fluoros with. I'll post pics when my box is purple again.


----------



## md.apothecary (Nov 24, 2007)

kewl, i just got my green, amber, and warm white PAR38 LED's in and will hook em up later. 

But not to steal your thunder, i wanted to mention i got a few pics lastnight of my previous setup, but to show similar problems everyone has with LED's.... I think part of it can be explained by the 40/60 phenomena.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19952


----------

