# Hermie..



## nvthis (May 3, 2009)

I have had this male hanging around for about 6 months. I woke up this morning to something interesting. Thought I would throw up a pic fer fun..

As the male plant turns...


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## Rockster (May 3, 2009)

According to some,males that produce female flowers can be potentially desireable for use in crosses.

Although it does seem counter intuitive doesn't it?


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## zipflip (May 3, 2009)

thats crazy, man.  how'd u keep a male around for 6 months without him violating all ya girls?


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## nvthis (May 3, 2009)

You know what's really weird? This male has never done this. I have had it for a while. Last week I accidentally splashed it with some Olivias solution. Quite a bit of it actually before I realised what I was doing. I am not insisting that the two things are related but... Strangely coincidental.


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## nvthis (May 3, 2009)

zipflip said:
			
		

> thats crazy, man. how'd u keep a male around for 6 months without him violating all ya girls?


 
It was an interesting (to me) plant/pheno from a pack of seed that I was saving for a rainy day. That rainy day would have been in about two more weeks lol. I have had to pick a few balls off him over them months.


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## nvthis (May 3, 2009)

Rockster said:
			
		

> According to some,males that produce female flowers can be potentially desireable for use in crosses.
> 
> Although it does seem counter intuitive doesn't it?


 
Hey Rockstar, what do you know about this? I know nothing. I have read that hermie 'males' can contribute some very favorable traits (i.e. extremely heavy resination and better yeilds? Hmmm, I dunno. If that were true everybody would want one right?) and will actually _reduce_ future hermies???:confused2:  I don't know how that works but if you have any info I would like to take a look.


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## BuddyLuv (May 3, 2009)

There are a few breeders who talk about it. I am all for killing any Hermie. I believe Bombpuff would be the one to ask, he had some stuff posted about it before.


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## nvthis (May 4, 2009)

BuddyLuv said:
			
		

> There are a few breeders who talk about it. I am all for killing any Hermie. I believe Bombpuff would be the one to ask, he had some stuff posted about it before.


 
Buddy, nice tip there bro. I haven't been able to find much at all. Thanks.


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## 4u2sm0ke (May 4, 2009)

:ciao:  I be right back  i find  THCdispecers thread..but  i will tell ya  its a lot of reading..and IMO..shouldnt be done..I dont hear Good things about Femminized seeds..But  I was subscribed to his thread..I be back:bolt:



:ciao:  here it is  good luck 2u
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32489


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## nvthis (May 4, 2009)

Holy crap, smoke, you weren't kidding. That was some pretty intense reading there. Unfortunately it never really dove into the male perspective. Bummer. I wanted pollen from this thing pretty quickly but by the looks of things this will be yet another plan scratched. 

Thanks for the link bro, it is a good and informative thread


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## 4u2sm0ke (May 4, 2009)

your welcome.  sorry it was of no use other then good read..good luck 2u  on your endevors:ciao:


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## leafminer (May 4, 2009)

Rockster said:
			
		

> According to some,males that produce female flowers can be potentially desireable for use in crosses.
> 
> Although it does seem counter intuitive doesn't it?



This is exactly what I am doing. See my thread, "The Backbreed Experiment". The pollen came from some Mexican brick that was really, really high smoke even though it was full of seed, stems, and leaves. 
All the seeds became male sativas with purple 'cat tails'. As per notes by DJ Short, almost certainly a true breeding hermie variety and from the Oaxaca 'sweet spot'. 
The 50-50 I made in the F1 cross has now fully cured and I love it. 
Next is the growing of backbred F2's (the 50-50s crossed back to the sativa again) and retest the type of high achieved with the aim of selecting a hermie-free genotype as close as possible to pure sativa, with the aim of stabilising the cross into a strain.


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## bombbudpuffa (May 4, 2009)

From DJ Shorts "Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis"-

_"Backward" hermaphrodites are declared males that eventually sport female flowers(as opposed to the usual female to male hermaphrodite).These are rare occurences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I found to be genetically valuable. Many resinous and desirable males exhibit this trait, which almost guarantees against hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female to male ratio in it's progeny._

I've never used a bw herm but I am looking.


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## nvthis (May 4, 2009)

Bombbud, Thank you very much for dropping by! Looks like I'll give it a whirl then. That little tidbit might have been what I read. Thanks again, my friend. Now I'll cross my fingers and hope the pollen is viable!


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## BuddyLuv (May 4, 2009)

Told You BBP would be along to help.


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## leafminer (May 4, 2009)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> From DJ Shorts "Cultivating Exceptional Cannabis"-
> 
> _"Backward" hermaphrodites are declared males that eventually sport female flowers(as opposed to the usual female to male hermaphrodite).These are rare occurences, usually sterile but sometimes viable, that I found to be genetically valuable. Many resinous and desirable males exhibit this trait, which almost guarantees against hermaphroditism in subsequent generations as it also increases the female to male ratio in it's progeny._
> 
> I've never used a bw herm but I am looking.



Yep, that fits exactly the type that I am using as males. I still have some pollen so if it's viable, I'll have a go at using it to pollinate a female 70-30 to get even closer to the original. My real problem is that I don't have enough garden space away from prying eyes.


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## trav_420 (May 4, 2009)

If a female that herms produces pollen with only xx chromosomes. Then does a male that herms produce female flowers with xy chromosomes?


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## zipflip (May 4, 2009)

trav_420 said:
			
		

> If a female that herms produces pollen with only xx chromosomes. Then does a male that herms produce female flowers with xy chromosomes?


  too much scientific stuff for me to know that. but either way :bump:


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## TURKEYNECK (May 5, 2009)

subscribed****


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## nvthis (May 5, 2009)

TURKEYNECK said:
			
		

> subscribed****


 
An impromptu breeding thread? I dunno man,  still gotta get this pollen to work But, I'm down. Let's see what happens then?


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## Rockster (May 5, 2009)

leafminer said:
			
		

> This is exactly what I am doing. See my thread, "The Backbreed Experiment". The pollen came from some Mexican brick that was really, really high smoke even though it was full of seed, stems, and leaves.
> All the seeds became male sativas with purple 'cat tails'. As per notes by DJ Short, almost certainly a true breeding hermie variety and from the Oaxaca 'sweet spot'.
> The 50-50 I made in the F1 cross has now fully cured and I love it.
> Next is the growing of backbred F2's (the 50-50s crossed back to the sativa again) and retest the type of high achieved with the aim of selecting a hermie-free genotype as close as possible to pure sativa, with the aim of stabilising the cross into a strain.



What do you mean,pollen from Mexican brick,leafminer?

If you've pollen,isn't it more probable to have come from a female hermie,hence the seeds within the brick?

Ah,you mean the seeds grown out produced males with a few female flowers,all of 'em?

All males with this condition? If so,they could be of interest.


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## tcbud (May 5, 2009)

great thread, thanks for the info, i have a male to female hermi myself,
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=41266
You say you are gonna try and breed the male/female pollen to female?  I just got the preflowers that are male, then he turned......


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## leafminer (May 5, 2009)

Rockster said:
			
		

> What do you mean,pollen from Mexican brick,leafminer?
> 
> If you've pollen,isn't it more probable to have come from a female hermie,hence the seeds within the brick?
> 
> ...



- Exactly! It was a fine smoke, productive of many strange creative ideas. Therefore I tried to grow it. Every time I tried a crop, it was all male plants, I got really pissed off with ripping them up and planting more seeds. Finally I just decided to set up a grow room and buy some Dutch seed which was why I got started on the Aurora, a decision I don't regret because it is a great strain for end-of-the-evening use.

I found I could get high on the male plants by smoking the leaves and pollen sacs. It wasn't great but it was better than nothing. So I grew the plants in a corner of the garden, they turned into 8 foot things and I found them later on growing purple cat tails. These cat tails are not like the usual colas, they are cone-shaped and quite flexible, they droop. 

I dried a few of the cat tails and discovered the smoke was quite psychedelic, very unlike the Aurora indica. So, thinking a combination of the cat-tails and Aurora might be a good high, I used pollen from the best male to selectively pollinate my best Aurora female. The seed became the 50-50 bud that I'm enjoying at the moment. It's an early-evening high, doesn't send you to sleep like the Aurora, but still a very strong stone. And extremely dank! The fully cured bud fills the room with its aroma when I open the jar. So this was the first stage of the experiment, and I have a few dozen of the 50-50 seed in cold storage.

In the last grow I still had my 'big daddy' sativa alive, so I took some more pollen from it and used that on three of my 50-50 hybrids to produce what I've called the 70-30 sat dom. But please correct me if my understanding is faulty. I guess I have about 60 seeds of the sat-dom variety.

So right now I am growing the first of this sat-dom from seed, four of them are already up, and I am noting carefully their characteristics, because DJ Short noted that the full variety of genotypes is likely to be seen, except in my case because I back bred to the sativa rather than crossing my F1's, I expect the variety to be heavily skewed to sativa rather than indica.

The seedlings seem very vigorous, germinated in two days to cotlydons + first true leaves, and have dark purple stems. I'll take pics of course. Going to be interesting to see what happens.


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## nvthis (May 9, 2009)

Ok, so I have prepped the male for pollen. I have not touched the female part of this plant at all and the shoot that is throwing female flowers is getting taller. There are now 6 nodes of consistant female flowers on this one branch. This is interesting. So, I am curious as to what to do with it. I am sort of thinking maybe I should cut the fem branch, throw it in the cloner and see what happens? Really have nothing to loose by doing this and the results could be interesting. Any thoughts?

To be cont. (If I do continue, I will start a new thread for it and leave a link here)


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## NYC_Diesel x Jack_Herer (May 10, 2009)

So from my understanding your plant's genetics are male, and you have forced a part of the plant to start producing female flowers???

I could be wrong about this, but it is my understanding that if you take a male plant and force it to stress and produce female flowers so that it can pollinate itself, you are just going to produce all male seeds.  I was under the belief that a female plant should be used and stressed to produce male flowers, polinating itself and producing only female seeds. That is crazy about the cloning gel.

In my second grow ever my plants went hermie becasue I did not ventilate well enough and they stressed out, the finished product looked more like brickMJ even though it was freshly cut, stuff was awful.  Also the last time  Iwas ever silly enough to use bagseed.

As far as breeding goes I don't know.  It seems to me like if you bred a hermie male and a female without hermie characteristics some of their offspring would display hermie traits and some wouldn't due to genetic variation.  Removing the hermie trait from the offspring would take many cycles of breeding wouldn't it?  I'm curious myself because breeding is an area I lack experience in.  Even if you take the two plants mentioned above and breed them to produce seeds, and are able to find a mother out of their offspring that does not produce hermie traits, it is worth the risk of pollinating your entire garden and the time it will take to go to the trouble?  Seems to me it would just be much easier and faster to dispose of hermies without mercy...hermie plants that is....hermie people should be left alone.


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