# Why is miracle gro a no no



## Starbuck

I heard lots of folks say not to use miracle gro but are they talking about their soil or their fertilizer or both and why?


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## jingo

I'll  give those crystals to mother plants, ive known guys used straight through if it's what you have.... use it

I think a couple good flushes during the grow you would be fine.

I did use some miracle grow soil re potting a plant just before flower all went fine.

My current nutes for soil are super soil and no nutes till week 2 flower, then FFBBGB with every other water. For dwc I use gh series with a schedule from www.growweedeasy.com


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## Rosebud

Some people can grow with it I hear. I used to use it on my ornamental plants  and it was ok.  I am an organic dirt grower and MG is in no way organic. It also feeds your plants whenever you water. Not good for pot.  There are just some really wonderful soils out there especially for MJ.  Lots of us make our own soils too... 

We are talking fertilizer and soil. Not the best medium to grow great cannabis in.


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## Starbuck

Thanks jingo for your help, however I'm gonna have to look up most of your last paragraph in the nute dictionary lol


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## Starbuck

Hey Rose thanks to coming to the rescue for me again! I have used miracle gro on house plants and really got excellent foliage. Not really what I'm looking for my pot plant. I've never used mg soil at all for anything. A friend did and nute burn was a major prob for her. As for my gro I know there are much better mediums and nutes, it's just they don't fit my budget. I'm trying to gro for personal use only. This is my first try and I just feel I'm going about all wrong. But practice makes perfect?


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## Locked

The only soil I use is Miracle Grow Seed Starter.  Unlike the other Miracle Grow soils it has none of those time released nutrients.  It costs me about 4 bucks a bag for the 8 Quart bags at Home Depot.


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## pcduck

If that's all you have it will work.

Add a little bit each watering and increase the amount slowly. When flipped to flower or when they start to flower quit using for 2 weeks then begin to use Mg tomato in small amounts each watering until about finished then just water.

Our one member The Brother Grunts did some amazing grows just using Mg ferts.


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## jingo

Starbuck said:


> Thanks jingo for your help, however I'm gonna have to look up most of your last paragraph in the nute dictionary lol



Your welcome

Just remember when you use MG to PH your R/O before mixing GH or FF unless you're in FFOF then......


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## Dman1234

It is a fantastic nute for Veg. I have grown hundreds of plants using only it as a nute in Veg, never even a hint of an issue. I have never and will never use it in flower.


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## 8planets8

Now i hear this oh boy i could have let my plants grow but i had to get rid of them anyways because of my apartment nosy neigbors oh well i working on my next grow and after listening to everyone mgrow is not the correct soil to be useing anyhow so much for though here today gone tomorrow. 888


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## The Hemp Goddess

Most of the MG soils come pre-nuted or have those moisture crystals in them.  MG that is pre-nuted does not have the right combination of nutrients for cannabis and nutrients are released every time you water.  The moisture crystals cause the soil to always remain too moist.  Cannabis likes to have the soil dry out some between waterings to bring enough O2 to the roots.  I have found the MG fertilizers also do not have the right combinations of N-P-K.  Like duck said, you can use it.  But, IMO, there are just so many other far better choices out there that it is way way down my list on what I would use.  You can always make up your own soil mixture.  

Starbuck--This: "...My current nutes for soil are super soil and no nutes till week 2 flower, then FFBBGB with every other water. For dwc I use gh series...."  

means this:  ...current nutrients consist of super soil (a mixture pre-made and allowed to age with a number of organic substances in it).  This provides all the nutrients for the vegging phase.  Then at 2 into flower he adds Fox Farm Big Bud and Grow Big with every other watering.  If he is running a deep water culture system, he runs General Hydroponics 3 part Flora series.

We can get pretty loose and free with our acronyms sometimes, forgetting how confusing those can be to newer growers.  Hare some other acronyms used in this thread:  FFOF=Fox Farm Ocean Forest  R/O=Reverse Osmosis GH=General Hydroponics  FF=Fox Farm.


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## ziggyross

I'm using MG soil right now because at the time it was the only soil I could afford other then the soil from Southern States. I could not afford 25.00 a bag for FFOF. The plants seam to be doing really well.


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## DrFever

well it appears many  growers  do use MG  Raids on marijuana growing operations have already turned up Miracle-Gro products. Hagedorn said he takes that as a good sign of brand awareness, but he fears some growers could be reluctant to use such a "mainstream" product -- and something tells me he's about to find out how strong the "organic" movement continues to be in cannabis cultivation.

http://www.tokeofthetown.com/2011/06/miracle_gro_makes_a_play_for_the_medical_marijuana.php


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## WeedHopper

Ive grown with MG outside and my Pineapple Express turned out very nice. Course I also used Compost teas,,but for Flower I used their Bloom Booster and it worked just fine. With that said,,A good soil like FF is much better for growing Weed then MG. Hopefully MG  will start making soils just for growing Weed where ya can buy it easier,,like at Home Depot.


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## 8planets8

ziggyross keep us up to date on your m grow soil i had it but decided agaist it let us no how your grow comes along.888


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## DancesWithWeed

FFBBGB = Fox Farms Big "Bloom" and Grow Big


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## Delta9

I have never used Miracle Grow personally-but according to Soma[ the organic ganja guru]-
their ferts are apparently full of heavy metals..:/


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## Warrior

It will work...........But all that has been said above is true....I would go back and read "The Hemp Godess"'s post.....there was a guy on Youtube that would do experiments from time to time, with his MMJ.......and this fella made sure it was a "useable" experiment and the data was valid(now you have too subscribe too see his vids?).....and the Miracle Grow plants.....looked almost just as good as the others he used GH with.....  Its not for me, as I ws warned not oo use any soil with nutes already inside, ever. I need to be in control!! lol  

Mind you, this guy was testing MG NUTES & Soil(less).......Good luck all!


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## hippy59

I just picked up some jacks classic 20\20\20 with micro whatever. same as MG supposedly but cleaner. the greenhouse guy uses it to start all his plants, which I don't buy, but gonna try it anyways with 1 plant only. they have a bloom booster that's 10\30\20 or something.


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## DrFever

Delta9 said:


> I have never used Miracle Grow personally-but according to Soma[ the organic ganja guru]-
> their ferts are apparently full of heavy metals..:/


 Delta  you can  get on the monsano  kick also  but in reality   MG works  period  or they be out of business  years ago  right ????  you mention   metals    most of the food  we buy today contains  some sort of metals     ( Iron ) etc   you ever look in the food you buy  what  poisons are in there  but  we still eat it  right  everything  to make product look and  last longer   but at the end of the day  it is poisoning  us 

  Hey look at the vid 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V265pGgsBnM[/ame]


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## Kindbud

id never used mg nutes or dirt just my opinion its not optimal conditions for marijuana plants it can be done but never be as good as organic bud or bud grown with correct nutes


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## DrFever

Kindbud said:


> id never used mg nutes or dirt just my opinion its not optimal conditions for marijuana plants it can be done but never be as good as organic bud or bud grown with correct nutes


 i dont understand  what your trying to say  ????   last time i checked   marijuana  didn;t grow  in hydro millions of years ago lol  so out of curiosity  what is marijuana's optimal  conditions  ?????   or medium   
TBO  know one can really claim ???????
 that    its all strain related   really    lighting , humidity , and most importantly  temps play a important roll  on final product  growing in organic  does not mean your going to get the best possible  THC    
 i have friends  that grow in hydro  even tho  they get direct food   with proper medium and chemical nutes  your pretty much  giving them the same  thing  for instance   from friends grows  in hydro  it grows  pretty fast   , in my situation     soilless medium   pro mix  BX and other added components   from clone   it   grows just as fast   and yields  just as much  again  as i feed them chelated   with  humix  and fulvix  amino acids    and they  frost up  nicely  and grow  stupid  fast  first pic  is 35 days  from a 3 -4 " clone   hordilux  superblue  MH / HPS in one bulb    3000 watts  worth      all i can say is find what works best for your situation  and run with it  tweak it till  everything is optimal 
In all seriousness  organic growing  is a slow process as     plant nutrients  need to be  decomposed  before plant  uses it  so when a def occurs  it can take a long time to  recover 

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## The Effen Gee

Because it's lazy. 

Real talk.


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## Delta9

*DrFever*- I think *Kindbud* is saying they would not use Miracle Grow products [soil or nutes] because in their opinion it is not comparable to an organic grow with nutes tailored to MJ. This is not a hydro vs. organic argument at all. I think you got the wrong end of the stick there so to speak..
At least I hope I understood your point correctly *Kindbud*- because I tend to agree-

MG is a general purpose commercial synthetic product- and as you yourself stated *DrFever*, .."find what works best for your situation".
So each to their own aye? 

Nice pics by the way-your buds look DAANNNNK


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## Delta9

DrFever said:


> Delta  you can  get on the monsano  kick also  but in reality   MG works  period  or they be out of business  years ago  right ????  you mention   metals    most of the food  we buy today contains  some sort of metals     ( Iron ) etc   you ever look in the food you buy  what  poisons are in there  but  we still eat it  right  everything  to make product look and  last longer   but at the end of the day  it is poisoning  us
> 
> Hey look at the vid
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V265pGgsBnM



*DrFever*-Iron in my food?? -sure I can deal with that!
After all its a very common and naturally occurring mineral in blood, soil and consequently our red meats and many green vegetables etc. 

The types of heavy metals I am talking about are the ones not produced by biological means and are toxic to our health such as Lead, Chromium, Mercury, Cadmium, Aluminium etc..
If you have no problem with that type of thing in your MJ that you smoke- good luck to you fella- chuff away !:joint:

And for the record, I never stated that MG doesn't work- I am sure it does for you and many others.

Thanks for the vid though-that was interesting  -pulling iron out of bran flakes with magnets sure brings a new meaning to the term "playing with your food" lol


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## Kindbud

delta u are correct


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## The Effen Gee

My opinion: 

If you are using MG for ANYTHING, you are not passionate about growing cannabis.


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## Locked

I am with you Gee...


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## Hackerman

I used it for decades. I just didn't know any better. I did try to use Peter's Plant food when I could find it but stuff like Fox Farms and all the stuff they have now was non-existent in those days.

It worked fine for me and the strain I was growing. I am using the Fox Farms trio on my current grow. Given the high cost and all the boasting, I expect to see a CONSIDERABLE difference.


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## Kindbud

im with you too gee


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## Rosebud

The Effen Gee said:


> My opinion:
> 
> If you are using MG for ANYTHING, you are not passionate about growing cannabis.




I want that tattooed!!!!!!! Thank you, I agree.


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## nouvellechef

I would agree with Gee. It's just not optimal to produce consistent top notch flowers.


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## The Hemp Goddess

:yeahthat:  Exactly.  Just because something _will work_ does not mean that it is a good thing--IMO, it should be considered more of a "no other option" thing.


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## Locked

General Hydroponics 3 part is pretty cheap.  Why use MG when at worst it will open you up to all sorts of problems and at best allow you to grow sub standard bud?


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## Dman1234

Im not going to get into it but the all purpose blue powder is a fantastic nute for vegging MJ. I have used it hundreds of times in Veg not only without issue but with fantastic results, always switched to GH for flower.
Thats probably all im going to say on it as i expect to get hit hard for my comment.


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## stonedagain714

i used mg soil on my first grow,with the little nutrient balls in it.the problem i had was every time i watered the balls would break and the ph went crazy could not keep it right.imo using unferted soil,you can control the ph better.the ph matters because plants can take up nutrients better when it is at the right ph level for that specific plant type (rose,orchid, mj).


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## Rosebud

Dman, it is good that it worked for you. Maybe Canadian mg is different?  Like i have said before, i used it for ornamentals for years. Just not something i would use on something i am going to ingest... I am weird that way.. organics be me.

Glad you spoke up too dman.


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## Locked

Dman1234 said:


> Im not going to get into it but the all purpose blue powder is a fantastic nute for vegging MJ. I have used it hundreds of times in Veg not only without issue but with fantastic results, always switched to GH for flower.
> Thats probably all im going to say on it as i expect to get hit hard for my comment.



I used the all purpose Blue Powder my first grow and it worked well in veg. I then used the Pink One that came with the hydro kit I was dumb enough to buy, and was less enthused by the results.  I think the Blue stuff could be used so long as you do like you do and switch to something better for Flower. Flower is where the Magic happens.  



stonedagain714 said:


> i used mg soil on my first grow,with the little nutrient balls in it.the problem i had was every time i watered the balls would break and the ph went crazy could not keep it right.imo using unferted soil,you can control the ph better.the ph matters because plants can take up nutrients better when it is at the right ph level for that specific plant type (rose,orchid, mj).



Yeah the MG soil is tough to grow in...I tried the moisture control one back a couple years and life sucked.


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## Hushpuppy

Hey Dman, did you really use the MG nutes for veg or did your dog get on here again and write that? :doh: I can't believe that you would admit to such sacrilege   

As I have said before, it is certainly doable to use the MG nutes, especially if you are an accomplished grower. I won't knock anyone for doing what they can or have to do, or even for experimenting, but for noobs who will have a large enough learning curve to work around, I try to advise against using it so that they can eliminate that as an issue to deal with for the first few grows.


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## Hackerman

It boils down to this..... If you CAN buy better nutes... buy them.

However, if you can't (for one of many reasons I can think of) then the MG is better than no nutes at all.

That was the situation I was in.


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## Dman1234

Im not trying to tell anyone to use it, im just saying i have had great success with it in veg, I dont use it in flower, I flower 9-10 weeks.
im not saying im some great grower but here is what Miracle Grow has done to my plants in a few short weeks.
I should probably shut up now, LOL. 

View attachment Jan 8 2013 001.JPG


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## Hackerman

They look great. However, I have to wonder if they would be even better with the more specific nutes. Not saying they would but with all the hype about Fox Farms and the others, they should be considerably better.

You should start feeding 1 or 2 of them a high end nute and see if there's a difference.


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## Kindbud

i guarantee you their will be a big difference in growth.... MG compaired to FF, GH, Dyna gro, advance nutrients etc they are better forumulated to suit mj and its needs


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## pcduck

Before the internet and before hydro stores started popping up(if you consider 60 miles one way popping up). All you had to use were what the box stores carried. Not to many choices to choose from, ya know. MG and Peters for chems. I used MG for years outside and had some amazing grows when I used it. Like Dman mentioned worked great in veg.


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## Rosebud

Dmans the dman.


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## Hushpuppy

Hey Dman I hope you don't think I was dissing on you. I was totally kidding. You are an accomplished grower with nothing to prove to anyone. I am not trying to blow your skirt up but I am sure that if anyone can make it work, you can. 

I would be willing to bet that there is little difference in the veg growth results between using MG and using MJ formulated nutes. The difference (I believe) comes in later when the unused parts get bound up with needed parts and toxicity begins to develop. For experienced growers who have dealt with synthetic chems, adjusting and accounting ffor these issues is easier to work out to prevent the problems that can arise ffrom the heavier chems. The ones who have the most difficulties are those who don't know to account for the strength and buildup tendencies of the stronger "all purpose nutes".


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## Kindbud

id do organic before i used mg just my opinion


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## Delta9

Kindbud said:


> id do organic before i used mg just my opinion




word.


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## Dman1234

Hushpuppy said:


> Hey Dman I hope you don't think I was dissing on you. I was totally kidding. You are an accomplished grower with nothing to prove to anyone. I am not trying to blow your skirt up but I am sure that if anyone can make it work, you can.
> 
> I would be willing to bet that there is little difference in the veg growth results between using MG and using MJ formulated nutes. The difference (I believe) comes in later when the unused parts get bound up with needed parts and toxicity begins to develop. For experienced growers who have dealt with synthetic chems, adjusting and accounting ffor these issues is easier to work out to prevent the problems that can arise ffrom the heavier chems. The ones who have the most difficulties are those who don't know to account for the strength and buildup tendencies of the stronger "all purpose nutes".



Never thought that for a minute Hush. just wanted to share that it can be good in Veg, I wouldnt use it in flower, and i wouldnt tell someone else to use it,  thats all.


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## DrFever

You be amazed  what little NPK used will still grow a plant  its knowing , reading your plant 
 Kind bud ???  there has been many horror stories over FFOF  from thrips , gnats , spidermites  also ph issues  to say your  guarantee  that the more expensive nutrient lines is going to do better  don;t fall for that gimmic  find a nutrient line that is readily available when you run out   there are lots of grows documented, using MG  from all products  
 i did 35 plant grow on other site to prove  that MG works,,,,   dammed if i can find the pictures  and it turned out well   we all use our lines of nutrients  and additives   if you seen  my veg schedule   with amino acids  silica,, my A and B  , fulvixes     super thrive also aspirin,   like many other growers use there different types   and in flower again  Different  stuff 

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## Hackerman

I think it's time for an experiment. I am getting ready to harvest my "Trough experiment" (which appears to be a screaming success, by the way) and I am getting ready to take clones from the Critical Kush mothers and start a new crop.

I will be growing in 16, 2 gallon buckets, as usual. Using Fox Farms soil and the entire regime of FF nutes including Grow big veg and Big Bloom flower with Tiger Bloom and some Cha-ching.

For this experiment, I will designate 4 clones to Miricle Grow. I'll start the clones in MG seed starter. Grow the plants in MG potting soil and feed them nothing but MG green and blue. I will distibute them evenly thrughout the grow rom and we'll see just how much difference it makes.

Sound fair?


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## Kindbud

i dont doubt that u can use it but the dyna gro i use is just as easy never had ph problems or any problems using it its not that expensive 20 a quart and that will last me a while.......and are we talking about soil or nutes because i have no problem with the mg soil with no nutes it works fine...... just when it come to nutrients id never use mg nutes just my opinion


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## Dman1234

Hackerman said:


> I think it's time for an experiment. I am getting ready to harvest my "Trough experiment" (which appears to be a screaming success, by the way) and I am getting ready to take clones from the Critical Kush mothers and start a new crop.
> 
> I will be growing in 16, 2 gallon buckets, as usual. Using Fox Farms soil and the entire regime of FF nutes including Grow big veg and Big Bloom flower with Tiger Bloom and some Cha-ching.
> 
> For this experiment, I will designate 4 clones to Miricle Grow. I'll start the clones in MG seed starter. Grow the plants in MG potting soil and feed them nothing but MG green and blue. I will distibute them evenly thrughout the grow rom and we'll see just how much difference it makes.
> 
> Sound fair?




If your talking to me then just use the All purpose Nutes (blue powder) I dont think anyone is disputing that their soil with nutes sucks and their soil without nutes is fine. I have never used and would never use their soil with nutes, its horrible stuff.

Just to be clear i always used Sunshine mix soil with MG nutes in veg and switch to GH nutes in flower.


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## Rosebud

Monsanto owns scotts. Nuff said. 

I have such an easy way of growing organic for the old lady that has a bad knee, no reason to ever buy that crap.


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## Hackerman

Dman1234 said:


> If your talking to me....



When you talk as much as I do, you talk to anyone who will listen. LOL

No, not talking specifically to anyone. Just wondering what the results of an experiment like that would be. You hear a lot of really bad things about MG and a lot of very good things about products like Fox Farms. I would expect to see a DRAMATIC difference based on all the hype, the trouble and the cost. I would be quite shocked and very disappointed to see very little difference in the two.


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## DrFever

Hackerman     when i  did my experiment  i used  MG  with  nutes in it as well as  there  organic line  more or less added   3 different types of mg product  mixed into one batch  it  grew no different   i was amazed   every one  tends to think  that the slow releasing  nutes   
and  how some  growers  tend to  water till run off  which in my mind is not a good idea ,, Any ways    i more or less  bottom fed   solved many issues   would add   1 - 2 cups on top   and couple cups  on bottom  which  plant and soil would  suck up   worked well in veg    as in middle of veg i started adding  700 PPM of nutes  and up  till  harvest 

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## bobkat

without performing large scale double blind tests you'll only ever prove what you want too. It takes far much more data collection to say this is better than that etc


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## Growdude

:yeahthat:





bobkat said:


> without performing large scale double blind tests you'll only ever prove what you want too. It takes far much more data collection to say this is better than that etc



"Back in the day" MG was all there was for the most part.

I've grown many outdoor and a few indoor grows using MG and soil.

If you don't burn them MG will work just fine, but very easy to over do it.


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## Rosebud

I would enjoy the taste test, but that would be subjective too. We need double blind studies you are right bob.


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## BenfukD

:rofl:

I like the powder and if used right works well.  and way cheaper than those " MJ spacifics"

what works for one may not work for others.  And if you never tried it..Dont comment on it.  makes you look Dumb


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## The Effen Gee

Lemme re-edit my original point:

If you grow pot with miracle grow products, you are not passionate about cannabis. You are lazy, and you support awful companies that pollute the hell out of our home. 

IF YOU USE MIRACLE GROW AND CLAIM ITS A GOOD PRODUCT TO USE QUIT GROWING POT AND ESPECIALLY QUIT TELLING PEOPLE TO USE MIRACLE GROW. 

Dont be lazy, dont be cheap.

BE PASSIONATE.


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## Hackerman

You forgot "Be Open Minded".

LOL


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## Dman1234

The Effen Gee said:


> Lemme re-edit my original point:
> 
> If you grow pot with miracle grow products, you are not passionate about cannabis. You are lazy, and you support awful companies that pollute the hell out of our home.
> 
> IF YOU USE MIRACLE GROW AND CLAIM ITS A GOOD PRODUCT TO USE QUIT GROWING POT AND ESPECIALLY QUIT TELLING PEOPLE TO USE MIRACLE GROW.
> 
> Dont be lazy, dont be cheap.
> 
> BE PASSIONATE.





PFFFFFT, its EXCELLENT to veg with and im not lazy at all, I didnt tell anyone to use it, you have an opinion as do I, but we both know what opinions are like dont we. I was just offering my experinces with the product not telling anyone what to do, unlike your post.


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## The Effen Gee

Using mg is a cheap, lazy cop out. 

Also, you give money to the bad guys. So theres that too. But who cares.

AND..

Yes. I AM telling people how to grow. Because its 2014, the internet exists and there is no excuse to use garbage products. I pay 19 bucks for maxicrop fish emulsion and it takes a biiiig faaat dump on any chem veg nutes. Keep using ammonium nitrate (or maybe even AMFIL) to feed your plants. IDGAF, my point: 

Its LAZY, its not passionate. Its cheap and weaksauce. This whole "what works for you" crap stopped days ago. Theres only one way to properly grow pot. And thats using proper ingredients.


No, mg is not EXCELLENT. Its crap. Thats like saying cattle given hormones or other garbage works excellent. What standards of excellence we have these days. 

And DMAN, I hate to sound like a jerk (oh wait...no I dont) but your "fantastic" looking veg plants look like garbage. Good job using MG products.


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## Dman1234

The Effen Gee said:


> Using mg is a cheap, lazy cop out.
> 
> Also, you give money to the bad guys. So theres that too. But who cares.
> 
> AND..
> 
> Yes. I AM telling people how to grow. Because its 2014, the internet exists and there is no excuse to use garbage products. I pay 19 bucks for maxicrop fish emulsion and it takes a biiiig faaat dump on any chem veg nutes. Keep using ammonium nitrate (or maybe even AMFIL) to feed your plants. IDGAF, my point:
> 
> Its LAZY, its not passionate. Its cheap and weaksauce. This whole "what works for you" crap stopped days ago. Theres only one way to properly grow pot. And thats using proper ingredients.
> 
> 
> No, mg is not EXCELLENT. Its crap. Thats like saying cattle given hormones or other garbage works excellent. What standards of excellence we have these days.
> 
> And DMAN, I hate to sound like a jerk (oh wait...no I dont) but your "fantastic" looking veg plants look like garbage. Good job using MG products.




Im not gonna worry about it. 

Ive had hundreds of plants in veg and if they could be better its not by much, very few issues and almost no deficenies and all on MG Nutes. that was my point in the first place and it still is. I discuss MG Nutes with know one until someone says it doesnt work or is no good, then i pipe up with my opinion. the difference is im right. enjoy.


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## MR1

I don't see any garbage, plants look real good to me. :fly:


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## The Effen Gee

MR1 said:


> I don't see any garbage, plants look real good to me. :fly:



I see no prolems here at all. 

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## MR1

That is it , that makes them garbage .


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## The Effen Gee

In this industry? Yep.


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## MR1

Ok man, I just usually wait for the final product before I start to judge.


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## Dman1234

those plants are from a past grow, the one in the back left had some issues unrelated to MG, big deal, i had no intention of saying they were someting special, they were just a pic i had handy, like i said, there have been literally hundreds of gorgeous vegging plants posted on here by me all grown in VEG with MG. so i posted a pic of 9 plants and one shows issues (unrelated) and the other has minor nute burn cause im such a M Grow expert i can push the limit. ha ha :ccc:
im done here, it works as a Nute in VEG really well, any pics i have posted on here since i joined in 2008 were all vegged with MG. peace


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## Kindbud

Vegged using Dyna gro...... my plants wouldn't look like this and be that big if i used MG sure they would grow but i want my plants to grow to their full potential and i just dont think Mg can do that just my opinion but idk why this argument is still going on lol 

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## Dman1234

LOL whatever, thats a joke right, why the need to compare? it works, get over it.

i showed you it works and have with hundreds of pics, you showed me dyna grow works too, good for you. what you claim is unproven and pointless.

BTW, very very nice plants, but nothing i havent done by vegging with MG>


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## SmokinMom

You must spread some Reputation
around before giving it to Dman1234
again.


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## pcduck

I am not in the industry, nor do I smoke leaves. But they all look good to me.


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## Kindbud

lol hahahahaa yeah dman it was a joke u can veg a plant with alot of different nutes some are betters then others just a mater of preference and experience and Pc we wear talking about vegging plants not flowering  i would hope noone would use Mg Nutes in flowering on their plants but anything is possible im not bashing anyone just stating my opinion


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## BenfukD

The Effen Gee said:


> Lemme re-edit my original point:
> 
> If you grow pot with miracle grow products, you are not passionate about cannabis. You are lazy, and you support awful companies that pollute the hell out of our home.
> 
> IF YOU USE MIRACLE GROW AND CLAIM ITS A GOOD PRODUCT TO USE QUIT GROWING POT AND ESPECIALLY QUIT TELLING PEOPLE TO USE MIRACLE GROW.
> 
> Dont be lazy, dont be cheap.
> 
> BE PASSIONATE.








your opinion is Bunk:argue:


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## DrFever

Nutes are nutes  its  reading  your plant  and knowing what  it needs  and thats the bottom line   if were going to start  poking at lower  leafs  on a plant  to show that  MG  is no good  to me that is lame  very lame  MG  does work   its not a lazy mans way  you still got to put the effort in  on mixing  reading   PPM / Ec  so please  explain  whats lazy  about it   you buy it almost at every  retail store ????     and there the bad  people ???? oh please  when was the last time  you looked  at any ingredients added  to pro long shelf life , colorings added to meats  , or any other obfuscated  label,   how about  the United states government is corrupt they not bad people  ???   spying   listening  to your phone / texts, . oil industry,  lumber industry  got to be the worst  you think   there clear hectares  of land    which in turn effects water table , and the damage ????  excess mud slides floods  you name it   all over  and  you support them  are    or even better yet  what about Wal Mart's or  other  child   slave labour    you know the stuff  you  buy  from them  are they not bad 
  oh here   please diagnose  this MG grown  plant   wold love to  here  your opinion   T E G 

View attachment IMG347.jpg


View attachment IMG348.jpg


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## The Effen Gee

Ive shared my opinion. 

MG = lazy half *** growing. 

Its not passionate, its the exact opposite.


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## Dman1234

The Effen Gee said:


> Ive shared my opinion.
> 
> MG = lazy half *** growing.
> 
> Its not passionate, its the exact opposite.



you just keep saying that, what makes it any easier than other nutes????? nothing.

everyone of the hundreds of plants i have posted here in veg over the last 7+ yrs have all vegged with MG, every one of them. theres my proof, where is yours...


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## BenfukD

I Bet this FingG cant use it and is why he spots up his ***


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## WeedHopper

I see things havent changed much. Degrading PPL for what they use in their grows is not cool. Dman can deffinatly grow dank weed,,so why dog him Bro, or anybody eles for that matter??? I thought we were here to share our grows and knowledge,,not degrade PPL for there way of growing. At least they are growing.
And by the way,,just because they make Nutes for Weed doesnt make them the Good Guys or a good Company,,no more then MG PPL are bad. The only true way of not being the BAD guys who mess up the Planet,, is growing completely Organic.
OH yeah,,Those Fire Crackers are the Bomb Bro.


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## Dman1234

just so we are all clear, i didnt want any of this, but you cant just make blanket statements about something you have no knowledge of, MG does extremely well for vegging MJ plants. if you dont like that it is fine, but it doesnt make it false.


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## SmokinMom

Differing opinions are perfectly okay when delivered in a polite manner.  Resorting to insults only shows a lack of maturity and people skills.  Dman, from what I read, you handled yourself just fine.  

Where is Tbg.... Miss ya bro.


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## BenfukD

Dman1234 said:


> just so we are all clear, i didnt want any of this, but you cant just make blanket statements about something you have no knowledge of, MG does extremely well for vegging MJ plants. if you dont like that it is fine, but it doesnt make it false.




:aok:


:48:


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## WeedHopper

Correct you are Dman. I have used MG for yrs with no problems in my gardens.Now i mostly use organics,,but MG IS NOT A DEMON.
 I have a passion for Golf  but just because i dont have the best golf clubs doesnt make me a lazy golfer. LOL


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## SmokinMom

WeedHopper said:


> I have a passion for Golf  but just because i dont have the best golf clubs doesnt make me a lazy golfer. LOL





Are you sure about that WH?  :giggle:


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## The Effen Gee

People have their own methods of growing and it works for them. 

I have my own method of sharing my opinion and it works for me. 

Here in california, we set our standards SO high its redic. Especially if youre growing medical grade. 

If a club, or a buyer (broker) learns you use miracle grow nutes on your product its not getting sold. 

Furthermore, yes. Its LAZY. And as far as the golf analogy, it would be the same as showing up to the course with fisher price toys, as opposed to real clubs. 

Sure, you can hit a ball, but nobody is going to take you seriously and you are only being an underachiever. Basically, youre only hurting yourself. 

Yes, mg = lazy

Find me a grower who does this as a career, and deals with markets and medicine who will condone the use of the worst chemical ferts other than AMFIL. 

Find ONE. 

...Ive been here HOW long and people are shocked Im such a jerk?


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## The Effen Gee

Also worth mentioning, Miracle grow is owned by Scott. The same jerks who bring you awesome products like Ortho and Ready-to-pollute turf builder. 

They are HEAVY backers of Monsanto. So, go ahead, keep on giving your money to the very same people who are trying (or so it seems) to kill us. 

Also, they have been sued a few times for including chemicals in their products that have been shown to cause cancer. 

So go ahead, use all the MG you want. Just dont give it to anyone else or you may be poisoning them.


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## WeedHopper

Not everybody here grows for a living. It is a hobby to me,,not a JOB.
If Your method of sharing is being an ***,,so be it,,but its still not cool. And as for Golf,,we and most the Peeps I know are not Pros,,we go to have a good time and chill. I will check out the Fisher Price clubs though,,Im having trouble with my Long Irons. LOL
As for as being shocked,,NO im not shocked that your being a Jerk. The fact that you like being a Jerk tells me plenty. Me thinks ya been eating to many Fire Crackers Bro.


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## WeedHopper

SmokinMom said:


> Are you sure about that WH?  :giggle:



How did ya know I was asleep in the Golf Cart SM? LOL


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## The Hemp Goddess

WeedHopper said:


> How did ya know I was asleep in the Golf Cart SM? LOL



 Weedhopper, I thought I was the only one who did that......


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## Dman1234

this has become boring and repetitive, Who gives an EFF what California thinks or does, I know i sure dont, and i can guarantee they cant tell the difference.  frankly they mean squat to me,  it works and it works great for Veg. and talking about something you dont understand just makes me laugh, try not to fall off your self made pedestal its probably along way down.    Enjoy the thread.


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## Kindbud

wow lmao thats funny i don't golf to much work lol i go to the driving range or go play mini golf lol


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## Kindbud

im with ya dman i don't see why this is still being argued over


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## BenfukD

Kindbud said:


> or go play mini golf lol




I get the GREEN Ball


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## WeedHopper

Hell I like a little heat every once in awhile. Bring it on Effen. LOL. 
Just kidden. Take a Chill Pill Effen,,since your Weed doesnt do it for ya. Never seen so much anger from a Stoner. I tell ya its those freaken Fire Crackers Effen makes,,done messed him up.:bolt:


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## Kindbud

WeedHopper said:


> Hell I like a little heat every once in awhile. Bring it on Effen. LOL.
> Just kidden. Take a Chill Pill Effen,,since your Weed doesnt do it for ya. Never seen so much anger from a Stoner. I tell ya its those freaken Fire Crackers Effen makes,,done messed him up.:bolt:



    hahahaha LMAO


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## WeedHopper

By the way,,those Fire Crackers are the Bomb,,and will kick your butt. Thanks Effen for the recipe.


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## WeedHopper

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Weedhopper, I thought I was the only one who did that......


I have a blast playing Golf,,and I pretty much suck at it.:baby:


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## Hushpuppy

I use bowling rules when I play golf :doh:


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## WeedHopper

Hushpuppy said:


> I use bowling rules when I play golf :doh:



Hey,,,thats a great Idea Hush. Cool. New Rules.


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## 8planets8

i have to agree since so many are anti mj i tyed it and my plants were growing like a bat out of hell,then i read i should not have used mj well i'm sorry i piched my plants i wasted all my effort and time money etc etc but im starting a new grow pretty soon so lay off the man to each his own 88888888


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## Starbuck

whoa guys all I wanted was a simple answer to what i thought was a simple question. It seems I just started a wave of difference of opions. I'm just an old woman trying to grow for the first time. I had good results with MG on houseplants and didn't know if it was a good idea for MJ. I'm more confused now than when I first asked the question. I need medical marijuana and my grow is not doing a damn thing I think it has more to do with my lighting than my MG. Cos they aren't growing anymore. I cut back the light to see if I could get them to flower but the poor little plants don't look any different then when I cut the light down. Which was three weeks ago. The plants look healthy but they aren't flowering. They haven't grown any either which I heard they would do when the light was cut, I had them on a 17 hours schedule of light and I cut them to 10 hours of light. I should prolly just stick to buying MJ but it's not legal in my state. So I have a very hard time finding bud. I don't understand why young people won't sell to old people. When I was a teenager I could get an oz for $10 and you could barrely keep the bag closed. Now they sell in grams of hydro thats not really hydro it's ditch weed. They think cos I'm old I'm stupid. I guess I should just give it up and die already. But I sure like weed, sorry I'm ranting but I've been drinking because I can't get no smoke. I hate alcohol! never have liked it but when the pain comes I do what i gotta do. Why haven't the plants started budding yet? I really really need my weed.


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## Starbuck

oh shoot now ya'll will start arguing about lighting. Nevermind. Just try to focus on my last question. Why aren't my plants flowering?


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## Starbuck

2 plants supposedly white widow I admit I have tried to hurry them along. My light is a standard grow light I bought at wal mart. I don't really have a way of photographing them but they are quite small like 6" or so. I saw a video on youtube that said a plant could flower at 3 weeks. Mine don't want to cooperate. I don't want them here when my children come to visit because all of them do not like the idea of me smoking. " THANK YOU DARE" for telling my children such trash about marijuana! " They will be here in mid August so reguardless of how well my plants are doing they will be gone before then. I do plan to start again. Now that I have found this forum perhaps I can do it properly.


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## Starbuck

It's a 2' flourescent grow light it says 17watt supposed to be full spectrum


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## Starbuck

I started from seeds, put them in pots on June 4th, had them on 24 hours of light for three weeks, I topped them waited a week and then dropped them down to 17 they are in a closet with foil to reflect the light back to them. Left them alone until July 5th, then dropped the light to 10 on 14 off. From the vid I watch they should have flowered by now


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## Hackerman

Also, just FYI. Aluminum foil is about the worse thing you can have on the walls. It doesn't reflect well at all.


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## The Hemp Goddess

I am an old lady, too.  While I live in an area where there are a lot of older people who smoke and have no problems getting bud, it is so much nicer to be able to grow your own.  Let's see if we can get you on the right path here.

First of all, maybe we should talk about what your budget and space considerations are.  There really is a reason that bud is expensive--it can be a pita to grow, it takes a long time to go from seed to cured bud, it takes a fair amount of money to set up a proper grow, and it takes a whole huge amount of knowledge, study, effort, time, and love to get a plant done.

Also do not put too much trust in You Tube videos--while there IS a lot of good info there, there is also a lot of B S.  A plant will flower when it is sexually mature and not before, regardless of the light schedule.  So, one of the answers to your questions about not flowering is that they are not ready to flower.  Trying to force them to flower before they are sexually mature (IMO) only causes them to stretch and you lose out on 12 or more hours of light the plants really need to grow and create more bud sites.  So, first of all, get them back under 24 hour light.  However, there is so much more.  So maybe we should start at the beginning. 

Space/budget/lighting considerations--you need a dedicated space that you can control the lighting and environment.  The size of this space is dependent on the amount of light you have (or vice versa).  Like mentioned, the big problem is your light--you don't have nearly enough of it and it really is not the right kind of lighting even though they call they grow lights.  Lighting needs are generally figured using lumens per sq ft.  Bulbs should have the number of lumens written somewhere on the box.  For vegging, you are gong to need a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft and 5000 lumens per sq ft for flowering.  So, with a 2' tube that puts out 1700 lumens, you can see that you need way more light.  So, I think that the place to start is to ask you if you have a space you can set-up, ventilate, and keep absolutely 100% dark when flowering and what your budget is for this project?  This will help us determine the kind of lights/ventilation to recommend.

Good luck--us old ladies need to stick together!


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## Hackerman

For first time growers, I can't say enough good about the "tents" that they sell today. They have so many of the initial obstacles built-in.

Reflection, Isolation, Intake, Exhaust.... All taken care of.

For a newb, if the budget and space allows.... a small tent (about 3'x5'), a 600w HPS HID and a single inline exhaust fan.

The tent's passive intakes should be adequate in most cases. Super easy, almost idiot proof setup. Exhaust fan inside or outside of the tent depending on your situation. Tie in exhaust and you're ready to start facing all the other hurdles in growing. LOL Ph, temps, humidity, nutes, blah blah blah. LOL

Still, I think these tents are really the tits. I love mine.


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## Delta9

:yeahthat:


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## The Hemp Goddess

Hackerman has made great point--tents offer a lot of advantages and can be purchased in a myriad of sizes.


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## Warrior

:headbang:


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## DrFever

The Effen Gee said:


> Also worth mentioning, Miracle grow is owned by Scott. The same jerks who bring you awesome products like Ortho and Ready-to-pollute turf builder.
> 
> They are HEAVY backers of Monsanto. So, go ahead, keep on giving your money to the very same people who are trying (or so it seems) to kill us.
> 
> Also, they have been sued a few times for including chemicals in their products that have been shown to cause cancer.
> 
> So go ahead, use all the MG you want. Just dont give it to anyone else or you may be poisoning them.


  Oh Boy  Effen   when as last time  you looked into the  skys  over LA    smog  pollution  or what   I  Think  rest of USA   should put a law  suit on  California  for   polluting  the AIR????   what yea think   and your worried  about  people  supporting  or using  MG  products omg   

 Here  top 20  polluters  in usa   YOU  SEE  them in there  ????

 1. American Electric Power  130 million tons

2. Duke Energy  127 million tons

3. Southern Company  118 million tons

4. U.S. Government  77 million tons

5. Berkshire Hathaway (through MidAmerican Energy)  71 million tons

6. Ameren Corp  68 million tons

7. Luminant Generation  62 million tons

8. FirstEnergy Generation  53 million tons

9. AES Corp  51 million tons

10. Xcel Energy  51 million tons

11. Dominion Resources 44 million tons

12. NRG Energy  44 million tons

13. Edison International  41 million tons

14. Exxon Mobil  39 million tons

15. Calpine  38 million tons

16. DTE Energy  38 million tons

17. LG&E and KU Energy LLC  35 million tons

18. Entergy  35 million tons

19. BP America  34 million tons

20. ConocoPhillips (prior to Phillips 66 spinoff)  31 million tons. 
 Can you comprehend  millions of Tons 
 So please Monsanto is  really the least of   USA's worries  hahaha  you mentioned  in CALI   they strive  for  excellence on  there Dispensaries   WHY  because  every person and there  dog  is growing  hahaha     out there  jesus  christ  think about it   did not Cali  declare  chapter 9 ????   i think there is more people on welfare in Cali there anywhere else in usa   work is at a crawl  so whats left ???? San Diego  chapter 9      Grow weed in dem da dare mountains    all thats left to do    hey ?>>>???? 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...-s-cities-that-have-gone-bankrupt-in-one-map/


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## SmokinMom

^ good post


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## buddogmutt

Long story short they have yet to make a product geared for marijuana growers..and other company's are..I live and die by Fox Farms Ocean Forest! From germ'd seed to harvest it's all I've ever used(indoor). And I'll never stop.


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## buddogmutt

I love my tents, but if I could designate my entire garage to growing. Or a room in the house. I'd junk my tent, run 3-4 1000watters on tracks and grow..use household AC to control temps during the day like I do anyways...my tents are out of necessity not choice...but I love'm. If you can't be with the grow setup you love, love the one you got!


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## Hackerman

buddogmutt said:


> I live and die by Fox Farms Ocean Forest! From germ'd seed to harvest it's all I've ever used(indoor). And I'll never stop.




Do you mix it with anything (perlite/vermiculite) or do you use it right out of the bag?


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## buddogmutt

Hackerman said:


> Do you mix it with anything (perlite/vermiculite) or do you use it right out of the bag?



Right out the bag...


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## Rosebud

Fever, monsanto is NOT the least of Americans worry.  Do you like eating round up? Do you like that every piece of corn is GMO'd with BT?  That goes for any corn syrup, high fructose or just the old fashioned kind. Do you want to know what foods have some sort of corn product? A lot.  Do you want to know how a farmer has been trying for 3 years to be certified organic when a gmo'd pollinates his clean corn? 

Don't get me wrong, i hate Exxon too, but they aren't as insidious as Monsanto and I really hate monsanto. 

I don't want to get more weird, but why was autism never heard of before.....nevermind. not the place.

Bud,  I love FF everything. Except the nutes i have never used them. I use HF for my base now though.


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## DrFever

Rose   just because a company  buys another company   known as  G D Searle  that had the patent for Aspartame  it all falls really back to the people you  voted in  right  its not these companies poisoning you  ????  its the  Government  that allowed this   Bottom line if you  owned  or made a company and it was doing  good  and running legally.  your not about to   close the doors down  when your  making  millions   I don't care  what anyone says   once you   taste  money  and a lot of it   nothing  else matters  in reality its all about the money  Right ???
 Just because a company buys another  and keeps them separate   should mean  that MG  is bad


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## Hackerman

The bottom line is this..... no one is forcing anyone to eat GMO products or support any faction that you don't favor. It's all about free choice.

However, you need to be educated and intelligent about it. Know what you're eating. Know what foods are GMO, if you don't like GMO. Personally, I am a High Fructose Corn Syrup freak. So, I read labels and I research what I eat.

It's all about choice.

Truth is, those people that eat all that crap and garbage don't seem to be any less healthy than those of us that eat straight organic and natural. LOL Still, it makes me feel better, knowing what I put in me.

But, on the other hand, I don't blame Monsanto or anyone else who is on the dark side. I am a successful business owner and I know and understand what it is to make money. 

Like I said, for me, an intelligent consumer, it's all about choice.


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## BenfukD

Politics


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## Rosebud

Good posts you guys. The only thing i disagree with is the freedom of choice Hackerman. You and I can choose to pay the high price to eat organic, but most of the population doesn't have that choice.


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## Hackerman

It is cheaper for me to make my own bread than it is to buy Wonder Bread. Same with pasta. And, a ton of other foods of fresh vs store-bought. I make awesome pizzas out of home-made pitas (flour and water) and a couple fresh veggies (tomato, green pepper, etc). It is way cheaper than the $8 frozen pizza from the store that I always see the "poor" people buying.

And "fast food" (which is what most "poor" people eat), is way more expensive than home-made foods. 

Yeah, Prime steaks and Chilean Sea bass are expensive but high carb diets like pasta and rice is very very cheap.

I say everyone has a choice, rich or poor.

Now, stupid....... that's a different story. LMAO It's stupid that makes people choose bad foods. They read the FRONT of the package and they believe it's "Made with REAL Beef", when they should be reading the BACK of the package and realizing what's REALLY in the package.

Little things like that.

I've been rich and I've been poor. I have eaten good foods through both. Because I had the choice AND the knowledge.


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## Hackerman

Oh, and I personally know several "certified organic" farmers and according to them, the entire "organic" thing has been raped and now it is 90% bull. The "no pesticides" rules have been revised and many of the other requirements have been totally dropped with the entry of the big players.

Just like everything else, when it started becoming popular and the market got big enough, the big money players had to get into it. 

I mean, Pillsbury has "certified organic" flour and Kraft has "certified organic" cheese. I can only imagine. LOL

LOL, just thought of something. I'll bet Monsanto has a couple "certified organic" products. LMAO


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## Hackerman

_In the wake of a 12-year battle to keep Monsanto's Genetically Engineered (GE) crops from contaminating the nation's 25,000 organic farms and ranches, America's organic consumers and producers are facing betrayal. A self-appointed cabal of the Organic Elite, spearheaded by Whole Foods Market, Organic Valley, and Stonyfield Farm, has decided it's time to surrender to Monsanto. Top executives from these companies have publicly admitted that they no longer oppose the mass commercialization of GE crops, such as Monsanto's controversial Roundup Ready alfalfa, and are prepared to sit down and cut a deal for "coexistence" with Monsanto and USDA biotech cheerleader Tom Vilsack. _

http://www.organicconsumers.org/articles/article_22449.cfm

_Just when we thought that buying &#8220;Organic&#8221; was safe, we run headlong into the deliberate poisoning of our organic food supply by the FDA in collusion with none other than the folks who brought us Aspartame. NutraSweet, a former Monsanto asset, has developed a new and improved version of this neurotoxin called Neotame. 

    Neotame has similar structure to aspartame &#8212; except that, from it&#8217;s structure, appears to be even more toxic than aspartame. This potential increase in toxicity will make up for the fact that less will be used in diet drinks. Like aspartame, some of the concerns include gradual neurotoxic and immunotoxic damage from the combination of the formaldehyde metabolite (which is toxic at extremely low doses) and the excitotoxic amino acid. (Holisticmed.com)

But surely, this product would be labeled! NOT SO!!! For this little gem, no labeling required. And it is even included in USDA Certified Organic food._

http://farmwars.info/?p=4897

Geeze, I did a quick search and there are a zillion examples. It's worse than I thought. LOL  Apparently, our pot is the only thing left we can safely consume. LMAO


----------

