# Hanging Fluores



## McDoobie (Oct 28, 2009)

I searched for almost 2 hours and found nothing on this.

I have dual tube 40 watt fluoros that have been horizontal for 3 months in my garage. I decieded they could be put to better use so I mounted them vertical along the wall of my new space. After 3 hrs or so 2 of them died and were smoking. 

Is there a known issue with mounting these vertical or just bad luck?


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 28, 2009)

Good question, let me see if I can find the manual thing to the ones I just got as I have little experience with them. Someone should be along to help you if not.

OK, the tech guide said nothing..not yes or no. My intuition tells me its not a good idea because it would cause all heat to rise to one end of tube. I'll be waiting with ya for the answer on this one.

THG??


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## leafminer (Oct 29, 2009)

Congratulations McDoobie. You are hereby elevated to the rank of MJ Scientist. 
You correctly used scientific method, :bong: 
Is there a known issue with mounting these vertical :fid: as a hypothesis, :joint: 
and then performed an experiment that, I would say, proves that there maybe wasn't a known issue before, but now there is a known issue - the tubes blow. :huh:  
Sir, you get my vote for best Newbie of the year! And I am not being sarcastic.


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## leafminer (Oct 29, 2009)

Seriously, do NOT mount regular fluoros vertical (on end). That is not in their design envelope. Not for the ballast's ability to dispose of heat; not in the probability of heat rising from the ballast ruining the capacitor and / or starter; furthermore, the heat from the ballast will have smoked the delicate phosphor coating on the inside of the tube, which is why you said 'smoked', and not only that, but if the tube were still lit, it would be emitting dangerous class B UV radiation sufficient to cause corneal and / or retinal damage and skin burns. Not to mention what it will do to your plants. (And not to get too smug, us people using HIDs need to take care of the outer envelope.)
I recommend CFLs for your next experiment.
Umm . .. if the tubes got broken, then you might want to consult the manufacturer regarding the possibility that you are going to soon have more in common with the fungal side of life.
Just j o k i n g (this last bit)


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## McDoobie (Oct 29, 2009)

The tubes did not blow, and still work fine. I did blow a ballast in one unit, and started to overheat the second but I repaired the burnt wire and all is good. I am gonna have to find another plan as my space wont hold 4ft lights horizontally. Would I have the same issue if mounted diagonally, say maybe 45 degrees? 

I always watch carefully that I am not sure of. I figured since I found nothing about it anywhere good or bad, and I have seen them mounted vertical in many applications I would give it a shot and see what happens.

Thanks guys for your help.


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## leafminer (Oct 29, 2009)

Why use 4 ft tubes? Use 2 ft tubes instead!


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## McDoobie (Oct 29, 2009)

Because I just got laid off and I'm trying to not spend anymore than needed. So I am using what I had available and all I have are 4ft long double tube fixtures.

I did find some 300 watts cfls today, 2700k, 4100 lumans so I bought 3 of those to help aid flowering.


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## Budders Keeper (Oct 29, 2009)

The only thing I found on angles is HID/mh...which recommends no more than 15 degrees off horizontal.


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## leafminer (Oct 29, 2009)

McDoobie said:
			
		

> Because I just got laid off and I'm trying to not spend anymore than needed. So I am using what I had available and all I have are 4ft long double tube fixtures.
> 
> I did find some 300 watts cfls today, 2700k, 4100 lumans so I bought 3 of those to help aid flowering.



300 W cFLs do not exist as far as I know. 150W is the biggest and they cost a fortune. Please use the actual, real, rating when you talk about CFLs. What were they, 45 watts? Those are about $30 each here. And you bought low colour temp ones? Maybe they were very cheap. They are trying to get rid of them I noticed. I only buy 6300K. The white spectrum contains all colours and is also useful for veg.


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## McDoobie (Oct 29, 2009)

I never seen them before myself, but home cheapo had them at 15 bucks each today. 300w=68w.

I veg with the 150 watt lights you mentioned.


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## 3rdbase (Oct 30, 2009)

thoes are interesting what are ....they cool..warm  and are they good for say side lighting supplementing overhead hps


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## McDoobie (Oct 30, 2009)

Soft or warm. 2700k is good for flowering. Im using them as main lights and so far so good (48 hrs in).


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## 3rdbase (Oct 30, 2009)

are you flowering with them if so how many tomato plants  and how tall.... i might buy some today for side lighting


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## McDoobie (Oct 30, 2009)

I just started flowering with them 2 days ago. They are transplants from out in the cold I brought inside. Just 2 plants.


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## DonJones (Oct 31, 2009)

The standard advice I have seen for vegging is COOL white  and Warm/Soft white for flowering.   Personally I haven't used either yet.


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## 3rdbase (Oct 31, 2009)

ya but it seems nobody can answer me my ? wll cfl lighting the side worrrrrrrrrrrrrk


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 31, 2009)

McDoobie said:
			
		

> I never seen them before myself, but home cheapo had them at 15 bucks each today. 300w=68w.
> 
> I veg with the 150 watt lights you mentioned.



Those are NOT 300W.  They are 68 watts.  The equivalent wattage figures do not mean diddley.  What are the sockets, cords, and reflectors going to cost?  For the money, you could probably almost have purchased a 400W HPS (50,000 lumens compared to 12,600 lumens)


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## McDoobie (Oct 31, 2009)

I know they are not technically 300w, but the 150w I have are = to 40w. I already had the set ups from my garage. I used to fabricate race car frames so I have tons of spot lights laying around. I paid 45 dollars so far, thats not to bad.

Ill post a few pics when the lights come on.


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## 3rdbase (Oct 31, 2009)

hemp g   ....sometimes i wonder if you smoke to much...just because ive been reading your replies to some of these threads ,..and your always talking about adding more light...some people dont want to add anymore to the e bill i hear people saying on this site 1000 this 1000 that ...but serious where i live one 1000 is like 150 extra dollars a month even a 400 adds to the bill ....so some people do fine with floros ....he might not have the money for a 400 watt.......but i do agree with getting a 400 watt minimum ....for any small setup...


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## Hick (Nov 2, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> ya but it seems nobody can answer me my ? wll cfl lighting the side worrrrrrrrrrrrrk



"IF"... you can get them close enough to the plants that they recieve beneficial lumens.."_without_" shading them from the hid
"more" useable light/lumens is always better than "less"....


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## Growdude (Nov 2, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> but serious where i live one 1000 is like 150 extra dollars a month




.28 cents a Killowatt hour @ 18 hours   I dont think so.


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## 3rdbase (Nov 3, 2009)

figure all the things that run in your house.in a month id love to see someone who pays less than a 100 a month.....ive has several light setups even with nothing running but the lights for a month 4 600s is like 400 bucks...add 1600 more watts for 4 1000s.....post a pic of ur bill without ur address just the amount...........some people are doin 4 5 or 6 1000s..... i want to see what there payin


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## Growdude (Nov 3, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> figure all the things that run in your house.in a month id love to see someone who pays less than a 100 a month.....ive has several light setups even with nothing running but the lights for a month 4 600s is like 400 bucks...add 1600 more watts for 4 1000s.....post a pic of ur bill without ur address just the amount...........some people are doin 4 5 or 6 1000s..... i want to see what there payin




Are you saying 1, 1000 watt light costs $150.00 to run but 4, 600 watters is $400?

If you want to know what it really cost to run your lights just multiply the Killowatt hours by the rate you pay.

ex. a 1000 watt light run 18 hrs a day @ .07 cents per killowatt hour is 
18 killowatt hours per day x 30 x .07 = $37.80 per month.


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## 3rdbase (Nov 3, 2009)

dude in cali they have a tiered system with pge......so the more you use the more youll pay per kw....3rd tiere 33cents ....no 4 1000s would put you easy in that tiere so you can do the math....4 or 6 600s...about the same.. thats why i said what i said where do you live and how much do you pay....cuz im looking at my bill right now...ive had a 3200 watt system 12/12 so 1600 watts 24/7 ....and a 3000 watt digi system...its not 35 bucks per thousand i want what ur smokin....:hairpull:


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## PUFF MONKEY (Nov 3, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> figure all the things that run in your house.in a month id love to see someone who pays less than a 100 a month.....ive has several light setups even with nothing running but the lights for a month 4 600s is like 400 bucks...add 1600 more watts for 4 1000s.....post a pic of ur bill without ur address just the amount...........some people are doin 4 5 or 6 1000s..... i want to see what there payin


someone is stealing power from you....prolly to grow their pot


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## dr pyro (Nov 3, 2009)

3rdbase so far you r posts( all over forum) have been absolutely ridiculous you ask a question people answer and its not the answer you want so you rip them.you ask the same question about lighting in 5 diffrent threads and then jump over to someone elses thread and answer there lighting question with some crazy answer that makes no sense.hemp goddess is right in about 99.9 percent of her posts so instead of jumping down her throat why not apply that advice to see if it works. also you criticize other very knowelegble members on here that have been growing since you where a twinkle in your dads eyes.if you dont like the correct advice given to you dont ask questions. it does cost 35 bucks to run a 1000 at the  rate  he applied do the math its really simple. 33 cents  kw i may be wrong here but there is no way thats what you pay.


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## dr pyro (Nov 3, 2009)

avg price per kwh in cali is between 10-11.5 kwh, here in the northeast we get pounded avg 12-17 cents kwh


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## 3rdbase (Nov 4, 2009)

dude just because i ask about lights doesnt mean i dont have very good knowledge of them....to ur point i never attacked anyone bonehead,,,ur instigating ....point 2  ican jump on ant forum topic you dont own this site bonehead...point 3 im in my 40s and been growing for over 20 years....point 4 dont you ever post on my thread again ...:rantoint 5 why would i say i pay x amount for pge and lie...your the one that makes no sense....by the way ive might of just joined this site but to tell you the truth with ur false accusations makes you look really childish grow up sir....no need to respond to my post because ur a bonehead.


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## dr pyro (Nov 4, 2009)

ex. a 1000 watt light run 18 hrs a day @ .07 cents per killowatt hour is 
18 killowatt hours per day x 30 x .07 = $37.80 per month


ok so how is this not around 35 a month please enlighten me on your math. im justa bonehead trying to understand basic math can you help me please


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## 3rdbase (Nov 4, 2009)

dude for the lassssssst time....just look up pge rates ...man ur dense  i fear someone like you should ease up a bit on the mj..:argue: 7 cents a kw..lmao try 33 cents or 40...i dont know where u live man but it must be in the clouds:48:


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## Kcar (Nov 4, 2009)

3rdbase is right. Here is a little chunk of my bill:

Charges
09/05/2009 - 09/30/2009
Electric Charges $221.83
Baseline Quantity 215.80000 Kwh
Baseline Usage 215.80000 Kwh @ $0.11531
101-130% of Baseline 64.74000 Kwh @ $0.13109
131-200% of Baseline 151.06000 Kwh @ $0.25974
201-300% of Baseline 215.80000 Kwh @ $0.37866
Over 300% of Baseline 153.08485 Kwh @ $0.44098


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## dr pyro (Nov 4, 2009)

im glad im not the only one. i see the rates but he was saying that growdude was off with his numbers or at least thats the way i'm reading it.so how many kwh can you use before you start to see hike 1 then the second one and so on.wow if your paying out .44 kwh your getting  porked big time in cali


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## OldSkool (Nov 5, 2009)

How you mounted the fluoros has nothing to do with them dying on you. 
I have eight 4' fluoros mounted vertically on the walls of my cab with the magnetic ballasts at the bottom. They have been running for months like this without one problem. Is there adequate airflow for cooling in your setup?
Did you allow for a space behind the fixture for cooling air circulation? Are you using the correct wattage bulbs for the ballast rating? How old are the ballasts? The bulbs? Wiring? Check it all. Especially the ballast's rating for bulb type and wattage. If you try and burn a 25 watter in a ballast made for a 40 it will slowly kill the ballast from overcurrent draw. Same goes the other way around. Hard starts if it's cold, higher wattage bulbs than specified as well. With vertical mounts you have to be extra careful with the pins touching the fixture when installing and replacing.


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## 3rdbase (Nov 6, 2009)

Kcar said:
			
		

> 3rdbase is right. Here is a little chunk of my bill:
> 
> Charges
> 09/05/2009 - 09/30/2009
> ...


my point is valid so u fo:ignore:


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## fleshstain (Nov 6, 2009)

3rdbase said:
			
		

> point 2  ican jump on ant forum topic you dont own this site bonehead...point 3 im in my 40s and been growing for over 20 years.... point 4 dont you ever post on my thread again ....



point 2 and point 4 seem to contradict yourself.... if you can jump on any thread, so can he or anyone else for that matter.... as you said, you don't own the boards....

and on point 3, *ACT LIKE IT!*


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## Kcar (Nov 6, 2009)

I wonder if the fluorescent bulbs are meant to be hung on their
pins, keeping them in contact with the contacts. putting them on their
ends could make the light end (Top) not make good contact. Beats me.
Probably depends on the fixture and the type and quality of the end caps.


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## captain1 (Nov 6, 2009)

My T5s are hung vertical with no issues. Funny thing is if they arent supposed to be hung this way why do they sell the optional vertical hanging brackets?


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## OldSkool (Nov 7, 2009)

Kcar said:
			
		

> I wonder if the fluorescent bulbs are meant to be hung on their
> pins, keeping them in contact with the contacts. putting them on their
> ends could make the light end (Top) not make good contact. Beats me.
> Probably depends on the fixture and the type and quality of the end caps.


 
I'm sure that _originally _they were designed and meant to hang horizontally.
BUT, we MJ growers are a curious and resourseful bunch!  

I have no problems with my four tube, double ballast fixtures hanging upright on the walls. They are spring loaded for good contact whether they are twist in or snap in.
The pin sockets can also be adjusted by sliding them closer to the tube for contact on most.


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## Kcar (Nov 7, 2009)

Yeah, my T5 is the same, but they have the new style twist locks.
I was thinkin of the old style t12's They might not do so well on end.


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## slmndl (Nov 24, 2009)

1. I just need lights for indoor germination/veging (not flowering-will do outdoors in spring) For say 10 -20 plants.
2. WHICH lights? compact? regular long tubes? high output fluorescent? OTTlites?  Brand (eg Sonagro?) Wattage?
3. Yes I have read and read and read. On this forum and others.  Everywhere. Mindboggling. Just need straight simple answer for small indoor grow seed through veggie.
Thank you!


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## Hick (Nov 25, 2009)

slmndl said:
			
		

> 1. I just need lights for indoor germination/veging (not flowering-will do outdoors in spring) For say 10 -20 plants.
> 2. WHICH lights? compact? regular long tubes? high output fluorescent? OTTlites?  Brand (eg Sonagro?) Wattage?
> 3. Yes I have read and read and read. On this forum and others.  Everywhere. Mindboggling. Just need straight simple answer for small indoor grow seed through veggie.
> Thank you!



A lot depends on your personal preferences slim. T5's come highly recommended by some, "I" prefer HID, others like cfls.  What you should concentrate on, is getting 5,000 lumens per sq/ft of grow area, in the most efficent manner.


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