# How to avoid hot strikes?



## nvthis (Oct 12, 2009)

Well, winter is fast approaching and it's got me thinking...

I read somewhere (can't remember now) about some piece of equipement that will shut your system down during power surges and you have to reset them manually. Is this right?

Mine runs through the circuit breaker (of course) and through a heavy duty strip. This won't stop restrikes during momentary loss, though. So what to do, what to do? What does everyone else do? Ideas anyone?

Oh, also, I shine at night so sleeping through any event is highly likely..


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## nvthis (Oct 12, 2009)

Mmm... No, I don't think that was it. I could be totally wrong, but I am pretty sure. By memory it was slightly more specialized then that. However I suppose at the end of the day maybe it might do the same thing? Thanks man.


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## StoneyBud (Oct 12, 2009)

nvthis said:
			
		

> Mmm... No, I don't think that was it. I could be totally wrong, but I am pretty sure. By memory it was slightly more specialized then that. However I suppose at the end of the day maybe it might do the same thing? Thanks man.


Yes, you can get a high quality "Whole House Surge Protector" that will not let spikes slam your equipment. I've used one for several years now. I would suggest going onto a Home DIY site and asking about them. The electricians on the site will guide you to the right purchase and tell you how to install it properly.


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## ArtVandolay (Oct 12, 2009)

Our power utility calls it SurgeSense and will install it for about $175.  I believe it arrests the surge at the meter and before the breaker panel.  Check with your power utility would be my advice.  Over.

When I first read this, I thought you were talking about hot flashes.  In my experience, there is no protection from hot flashes except to cower in the basement with the dogs until it passes.


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## StoneyBud (Oct 12, 2009)

ArtVandolay said:
			
		

> Our power utility calls it SurgeSense and will install it for about $175. I believe it arrests the surge at the meter and before the breaker panel. Check with your power utility would be my advice.


Is there a monthly service charge associated with the installation of the device, Art?

The one I bought is a small box about 4" x 4" and installs directly into the breaker panel in the house. It has a couple of small red lights on it that lets you know it's enabled and working.

It also comes with a $25 thousand dollar, 5 year warranty for all of your household appliances and electronic equipment.

You'll have to go to "Intermatic.com" to find it. There linking URL's are really stupid.


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## ArtVandolay (Oct 12, 2009)

No, Stoney, no monthly charge.  You can purchase it or lease it (for a monthly charge).  It's advertised to protect major appliances.  The utility claims, however, that 60% of surges happen within the home.  Then they try to sell you surge-protected outlets, too.

Like yours, it installs at the electric meter and redirects lightning (surges) hits.


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## Kcar (Oct 12, 2009)

He's not trying to avoid surges, he's trying to avoid hot re-strikes when
the power goes out and then comes back on. There is such a device,
but it's name eludes me.


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## StoneyBud (Oct 12, 2009)

Kcar said:
			
		

> He's not trying to avoid surges, he's trying to avoid hot re-strikes when
> the power goes out and then comes back on. There is such a device,
> but it's name eludes me.


That's nothing more than a UPS, (Uninterruptible Power Supply). It maintains house current, prevents brown-outs, rapid on-offs and surges from damaging individual equipment. You can get one that is device level up to house level.

Or perhaps they've invented something I'm unaware of...


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## nvthis (Oct 12, 2009)

Kcar said:
			
		

> He's not trying to avoid surges, he's trying to avoid hot re-strikes when
> the power goes out and then comes back on. There is such a device,
> but it's name eludes me.


 
Exactly 

Stoney, Art I humbley appreciate the great info and it may be the course I need to take. Keep it comin' bro's!

But $175.00 and the help of an electrician? Mm, I was kinda hoping for something a little more appliance specific. I read somewhere (I am starting to doubt myself a little here, so at least I am pretty sure I _think_ I read it) about some piece of equipment that you attach directly to your grow and during an outage (even momentary) it will shut the system down until you manually reset it. Some guy was talking about having just picked one up and how it worked.

If I can get the time tonight I will surf it up on line if I can.


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## StoneyBud (Oct 12, 2009)

nvthis said:
			
		

> Exactly
> 
> Stoney, Art I humbley appreciate the great info and it may be the course I need to take. Keep it comin' bro's!
> 
> ...


Hey nvthis, there are programmable UPS's. They have ones that will support a LOT of power for a short, shut-down time. You program it to begin the shut down if the power outage lasts longer than ten seconds or so.

Do a search on auto-shutdown UPS. That should get you some results. The larger ones are costly, but I've seen them run an entire lab for a ten minute shut-down. You can use them on individual equipment or in a "shared" environment.


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## nvthis (Oct 12, 2009)

Right on, thanks Stoney!


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## poop-dog (Oct 12, 2009)

You could wire a magnetic breaker in line. So if a surge happens it will throw the breaker and you would have to manually flip it back. I lazily have used some for on and off switches


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## nvthis (Oct 12, 2009)

****-dog said:
			
		

> You could wire a magnetic breaker in line. So if a surge happens it will throw the breaker and you would have to manually flip it back. I lazily have used some for on and off switches


 
I am, admittedly, more of a plug'n'play kinda sport, but explain more please...


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## poop-dog (Oct 12, 2009)

It is just a little magnetic breaker. It has a positive and negative connection. You can just wire them in line. 

You would, if you just want it for you lights, would want to pick one with a slightly higher wattage/amperage than your lights pull. If the mag breaks you just set it back. Any electronics supply store/computer store should have them.

Watts to Amps:                   *Amps = Watts /                 Volts*
Amps to Watts:                   *Watts = Amps x                 Volts *

This one is CRAZY expensive but serves the purpose of a picture. I would expect a 20 - 40 dollar range.

hxxp://cgi.ebay.com/Thermal-Magnetic-Circuit-Breaker-TMC-Style_W0QQitemZ330366484047QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item4ceb607e4f


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## TURKEYNECK (Oct 13, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> Yes, you can get a high quality "Whole House Surge Protector" that will not let spikes slam your equipment. I've used one for several years now. I would suggest going onto a Home DIY site and asking about them. The electricians on the site will guide you to the right purchase and tell you how to install it properly.


 
Ideally a back-up generator would be in place..coupled with the surge protectors you wouldn't have to worry about power outages...the only problem is that by the time the generator takes over your HIDs are out and will need time to cool before "re-igniting" them.. which in theory could be wired on an electronic 'counter/timer' (by an electrician) to avoid any chance of failure..it's easier said than done,but technically you could 'automate' everything so if there is an outage while your out of town...
sorry for rambling.. the subject got my gears turning:hubba:


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## pcduck (Oct 13, 2009)

nvthis I too have read where there is a manual type of timer that when you lose power it will not re-light unless you do it manually. ...Thanks now you have me looking to where I have read this previously.:laugh:


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## nvthis (Oct 13, 2009)

pcduck said:
			
		

> nvthis I too have read where there is a manual type of timer that when you lose power it will not re-light unless you do it manually. ...Thanks now you have me looking to where I have read this previously.:laugh:


 
BINGO baby! See? Oh man, I thought I might have been seeing stuff. Again.


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## Kcar (Oct 13, 2009)

Found one.
http://www.discount-hydro.com/productdisp.php?pid=77&navid=5

Pretty cool. might be a cheaper one around.


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## nvthis (Oct 13, 2009)

Kcar, thank you! You are the man bro


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## Droopy Dog (Oct 14, 2009)

Kcar said:
			
		

> He's not trying to avoid surges, he's trying to avoid hot re-strikes when
> the power goes out and then comes back on. There is such a device,
> but it's name eludes me.



We had the same thing on the central air when living in SoFla.

Like a timer sort of deal that would keep the compressor from trying to re start for 5 minutes or so after a momentary outage.  It let the pressure bleed off for a safe re start and do it automaticly, unless the breaker tripped.  We had lots of momentary outages during the rainy season.

I can't think of the name either, but the devices have been around for at least 14 years.

DD


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## nvthis (Oct 14, 2009)

aplaisia said:
			
		

> Ahhhh...HOT START/ Hot Strike.... lol
> 
> I understand now...lol
> 
> ...


 
I currently use none. But ima 'bout to get this.


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## balorevileye (Oct 14, 2009)

****-dog said:
			
		

> You could wire a magnetic breaker in line. So if a surge happens it will throw the breaker and you would have to manually flip it back. I lazily have used some for on and off switches




If what **** Dog is saying is kinda what your after, how to do it exactly is you can get a 25 amp single phase contactor with two normally open contacts. Bring your live wire from your fuseboard to the bottom of the two different normally open contacts and loop the two together. Now at the top of the contactor at the other side of the normally open contacts above, one of the contacts can be used to supply your equipment that you want protecting. The other normally open contact can be wired to one of the contacts for the coil of the contactor and the neutral (ground) is connected to the other (the two previous contacts used are typically labelled A1+ A2 on the contactor.) How the reset button is added is by running a wire from the bottom of the normally open contacts (at the bottom of the contactor), thru a normally open spring loaded push button onto whatever coil of the contactor (A1 or A2) you made the live. This makes the contactor isolate your equipment in the event that supply dropped off etc and you would manually reset it by pressing the push button. 

Sorry Ive no picture but Il post one up later to simplify it as its easier than ive described. Its really handy though and cheap too!!!!


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## IRISH (Oct 14, 2009)

got my mind running also Nv. been searching through loads of hot strike/manuel restart breakers for hours. brilliant. ...

wow evileye, sounds like your good with wiring things. it's good to have someone on our team here with this knowledge. ex navy?...


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## nvthis (Oct 14, 2009)

IRISH said:
			
		

> got my mind running also Nv. been searching through loads of hot strike/manuel restart breakers for hours. brilliant
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Growdude (Oct 15, 2009)

aplaisia said:
			
		

> Damn... balor lost me...
> 
> Are these standard breakers your calling single phase contactors?
> I've got to go spend a few hours at Home Depot after Reading htis post... lol
> ...



Hes is talking about a contactor or relay,  not a breaker.

Basicly you are wiring it so the normally open control contacts,not the main contacts, hold the relay energizied once you push the momentary push button.


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## leafminer (Oct 15, 2009)

What's wrong with a 'hot strike' as you call it? It's a perfectly normal thing and built in to the running specification of bulb and ballast . . . all that's happening is that if you have a temporary power outage, the arc extinguishes and then the bulb has to cool down until the vapour pressure lowers to the point where the main arc strikes again. No biggie.


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## balorevileye (Oct 17, 2009)

Growdude said:
			
		

> Hes is talking about a contactor or relay,  not a breaker.
> 
> Basicly you are wiring it so the normally open control contacts,not the main contacts, hold the relay energizied once you push the momentary push button.




Ya, its a contactor or relay Im refering to. Im on holiday at the moment so couldnt post that photo and was doing it from from memory. In reply to Irish's question Im from Ireland and fix street lights 5 days a week so Im sick of wiring and fixing stuff like that!! It comes in handy at times as its makes a difference wiring control box's that do a lot of the work for you. Im working on a remote monitoring system 4a hydro setup that sends daily updates of reservoir level, ph and cf and sends a warning if somethings wrong but thats sumthing for another thread i suppose!!

As for if somebody is afraid that a hot strike damages the bulb it doesnt, the superheated ionised gas in the inner tube of the just needs to cool down a fraction for the ignitors pulse (the little bolt of lightning it looks like if you look closely at the inner tube) to excite the sodium vapour (presuming its a Son bulb).

If your wiring your own system as I do with magnetic ballasts etc then just watch out for anticycling ignitors. On powering up these only try to light the bulb for about 20 seconds and then stop until power is cut. If the bulb is lit then its on and if it hasnt lit (due to a hot strike) then it wont and should come on as normal on the next days cycle which is a bit of a waste.


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## leafminer (Oct 21, 2009)

Ah, no problem. So far as igniters are concerned, it sounds like you might have been thinking about mercury arc rectifiers, outlandish things I used to deal with as an engineer. I think early mercury vapour lamps used them too. There's no igniter as such in modern discharge lamps.


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## balorevileye (Oct 27, 2009)

leafminer said:
			
		

> Ah, no problem. So far as igniters are concerned, it sounds like you might have been thinking about mercury arc rectifiers, outlandish things I used to deal with as an engineer. I think early mercury vapour lamps used them too. There's no igniter as such in modern discharge lamps.



Not quite so right!!! There is an igniter in every son lighting circuit (including built in to the digital son ballasts), when their separate as we use them with the magnetic ballasts except where you have a son bulb with a built in igniter (usually situated below the arc tube and it looks like a small black glassy tube). Mercury vapour bulbs just use a ballast and no igniter, ive never heard of a mercury arc igniter but all mercury gear over here is being phased out so their a thing of the past I presume.


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## Old_SSSC_Guy (Nov 18, 2009)

sorry for the old bump but there is a 15 minute delay relay made specifically to stop hot strikes.  You can google "CAP 15 Minute delay" to find it at a lot of grow shops.

if its a spike your lights will prolly stay on anyway.  a "hot strike preventer" just delays any restart (usually from power outage, not spikes) for 15 mins so the bulbs can cool to restrike normally. but if you've seen any outdoor HID light you'll see that on power out they just restart normally once the buld has cooled. doesn't -seem- to effect bulb life much...





			
				nvthis said:
			
		

> Well, winter is fast approaching and it's got me thinking...
> 
> I read somewhere (can't remember now) about some piece of equipement that will shut your system down during power surges and you have to reset them manually. Is this right?
> 
> ...


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