# First grow, 1000w/600w venting/fire questions



## Tact (Oct 28, 2009)

Hey all, first time poster, and first time grower, with some questions.

I am putting together a grow in my basement (see attached pictures below), the grow area is in a cool basement, poured concrete floor, 6x6x6.5 is the dimensions of the area. Two walls are concrete (behind, and right), one is 1' partition wood (left), with the other side being open, I figured I could seal off this area with heavy plastic and perhaps Mylar to keep all the light in the grow area, cut a slit down the middle to access the grow. I live alone (except for my female Akita ), in a small 1000 square foot house. The grow will be Serious Seeds White Russian (from seeds), I have 12 seeds, plan on germing 6-8. I am going to use either a 1000w HPS/MH or a 600w HPS/MH (feedback on light size for this grow area, which do you think would be better?).

Now to my questions, if you can quote sections and respond to those, it will make it easier to follow and respond back to !

*1)* Either way, I am scared of heat, I am paranoid of a fire, and my subsequent arrest and seizure of my home! Therefore I absolutely plan on getting a high-quality vented hood with whatever light I get. In regards to passive/active exhaust and intake, how does this work exactly? I see that vented hoods have your typical 6'-8' flange, allowing for you to put on a (scrubber) -> Can/Vortex -> exhaust, and drive the air AWAY from the grow. How then would you be bringing air INTO the grow to cycle the air? 

Is the exhaust through the hood simply to remove heat/odor, because I do not see any hoods with a second flange to bring IN air? I was looking at the 750 CFM Vortex 8' blower, this would be attached to a scrubber that would be attached directly to the hood, then I was going to drive it through an 8' (or 6' if people seem to think 8' is overkill) and into my dryer ducting that then dumps outside (see pictures for the ducting area), perhaps by putting an elbow with an additional opening to allow for another duct to be connected to the existing dryer duct work.

*2)* But! My dryer duct work looks like it is only 6', but when it dumps outside is actually only 4'. So would an active exhaust of 6'-8' dumping through a SHARED 4' exhaust be a potential fire hazard due to the light fluffy dryer dust that gets expelled outside through this duct work, though dryers exhaust air is hot itself..? The distance the blower would be pushing would be about 20 feet, really is quite a straight shot with minimal turns in the duct work, see pictures below.

*3)* Power. There is limited outlets in my basement, and the ones that are there look very very old. One near where my dryer duct work exits my house is a 3-prong, which makes me assume it is grounded, but who knows? I attached a picture of my circuit breaker box if anyone can derive any information from that. Should I expect to contact a licensed electrician, and what exactly should I tell him I need if I need to do so? I don't want to tell him* "HEY MAN, GROWING WEED, HOOK ME UP THERE BUDDY"*, how much power would I expect to need by way of outlets with a 1000w HPS, (1-2) 6'-8' blowers, an oscillating fan to cool the canopy, etc. Again, I am very paranoid about a fire, I plan on getting a smoke detector and several fire extinguishers.

*4)* Slightly moldy basement. My house is older, the basement has cracks down the walls, and is generally humid with a sump-pump. Every time it rains these cracks in my walls accumulate SOME moisture, but don't ever reach the floor. This is an environment that seems prone to a bit of mold in these crack (dark, damp, etc). How much of an issue is this with the plants? I can seal off the grow area (but not air tight) by putting heavy-plastic around the 6x6x6.5 (LxWxH) area.

*5)* The ceiling is only 6.5" feet tall, the ceiling is also old, dry, wood. Again, I fear a fire, should I put FIREWALL (with nails) up on the ceiling and on the left 1' wood partition? I could nail it up and suspend the grow light from that, that would reduce my height to about 6".

So to recap:

*How many blowers should I buy (an assumption of a 1000w or 600w), what size 6'/8'?

Is it a good idea to put an elbow onto my existing dryer exhaust and attach my grow active exhaust to that? If so, what size scrubber should I get to ensure that what dumps outside (right into my neighbors driveway) does not have a smell issue?

Thoughts on my heat/mold concerns?

How many 3-prong grounded outlets should I expect to use for this one-light grow? Do I need to get an electrician out here to drill a hole in my concrete wall (behind my grow), or through the 1' wood partition on the left (in picture #1) and make sure my circuit breaker is capable of handing the load?*

I appreciate any, and ALL feedback! I have been pouring over the information on the website and in the forums but have some clarification questions, as well as specific questions regarding my grow in particular.


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## kasgrow (Oct 28, 2009)

In that size of room you should be using 2 1000watt hps, at least. I would have an electrician run 220 to the basement. It will reduce the chance of your wiring burning up from too much heat. Tell the electrician you are going to put a hot tub down there so you need 220 with large gauge wiring. You can have him wire up a 220 timer at the same time and a couple of outlets. I use 220 for my flower room and it has a dedicated circuit. Make sure you use large enough wiring to handle the amperage that you need. He can also run a dedicated circuit for 110 at the same time to run your fans and other devices. Have him put in lots of 110 outlets around the room for ease of use. Also have him put your outlets above waist level for safety.  I do my own wiring but you should have a professional do it if you don't know what you are doing.


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## Tact (Oct 29, 2009)

Kasgrow thanks for the response man I really appreciate it !



			
				kasgrow said:
			
		

> I would have an electrician run 220 to the basement.


Isn't this the same size outlet used for plugging in things like a dryer? I thought your typical 1000w HPS has a standard 110 volt plug. One of the 1000w lamps I was looking at sais it comes standard with a 110 volt plug, that can be upgraded to a 240 volt.. for 10 bucks, but I didn't see 220 volts anywhere. I will copy paste the details, but I can't link to the lamp because I need 15 posts before I can post a link.


1000W HPS System /w Bell Washington LR 1000 Reflector           $469.95

 *240V Wiring Upgrade -* 	This option will allow you to run  	your ballast at 240 volts. The ballast will arrive to you wired at 240V with  	a 240V plug instead of the standard 110V house plug.  



			
				kasgrow said:
			
		

> You can have him wire up a 220 timer at the same time and a couple of outlets.


What is a 220 timer, and what is it used for ?



			
				kasgrow said:
			
		

> Make sure you use large enough wiring to handle the amperage that you need.


How much amperage would I need for just ONE 1000w HPS? I want to make sure I have no heat issues before going to (2) 1000w HPS . If an electrician asked for example, _"So how much amperage are you going to need here, and what size wires would you want?"_, what would I say, a hot tub is a good idea but how about a number?




			
				kasgrow said:
			
		

> Have him put in lots of 110 outlets around the room for ease of use.


Great idea, what do you figure something like this would end up costing from a pro-electrician, $400+?

Any input on the ventilation, mold, etc.

I am still confused regarding the basics of push/pull ventilation.

Again, thank you mucho for responding!


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## fort collins ak-47 (Oct 29, 2009)

kasgrow said:
			
		

> In that size of room you should be using 2 1000watt hps, at least. I would have an electrician run 220 to the basement. It will reduce the chance of your wiring burning up from too much heat. Tell the electrician you are going to put a hot tub down there so you need 220 with large gauge wiring. You can have him wire up a 220 timer at the same time and a couple of outlets. I use 220 for my flower room and it has a dedicated circuit. Make sure you use large enough wiring to handle the amperage that you need. He can also run a dedicated circuit for 110 at the same time to run your fans and other devices. Have him put in lots of 110 outlets around the room for ease of use. Also have him put your outlets above waist level for safety. I do my own wiring but you should have a professional do it if you don't know what you are doing.


 

great response,i was going to give advice on the spa idea,or sauna idea.good to see people using their heads.another excuse for basements is a pottery kiln.my kiln runs 5000 watts at 240.


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## dirtyolsouth (Oct 29, 2009)

HI Tact...

GREAT post... very well put together...   WELCOME to MP!  

That's GREAT info from Kasgrow...  There's a bunch of helpful growers here but don't forget all the info from past posts on just about any topic so sometimes the search function will pull up threads that go through many scenarios.  I like to use Google's 'advanced search' function and use it to 'search within a domain or website' for marijuanapassion.com 

It sounds like you're going to have a very nice personal grow setup and you're thinking about ALL the right things...   Ventilation ventilation ventilation....   You're going to have plenty of fresh air in your grow room and you're already going to be one up on the odors by not ever letting them build up with your good air exchange going on.   I grown in a small 2 x 4 x 8 closet in a spare bedroom.  I have a 1K switchable Quantum digital ballast in a 6" cool tube built into a reflector.  I have a 40 lb carbon filter first in my ventilation chain, then a 6" chunk of the semi rigid, bendable 6" duct about 18" long going from my filter that's hung high in my closet to the intake side of my cool tube...  then out of the cool tube into a rigid elbow connector and it then goes up an 8' piece of 6" semi rigid duct.  I have my fan mounted in the attic, hung on rubber straps to reduce vibration and noise and a 630cfm Eclipse/Ostberg fan does all the work.

My system keeps things in the mid to upper 70's as long as the temps in the bedroom where the closet is are in the lower 70's...   I have a passive 4" intake that is adequate for cool air supply from fall til spring and in the summer I use a window a/c unit to keep temps and humidity under control and a 4" inline fan to blow cool air into my intake...   Since your grow will be in your basement you're gonna be one up on the temps already...

Another thought....  Carbon filters and ventilation work amazingly well to control odors.  I grew for many years with only ventilation, always piping it out of the rooftop so that it would dissipate and be minimal outside the house.  It worked pretty well but I never had peace of mind growing weed until I bought my first carbon filter.  I swear it's going to be the best investment you make other than a HPS light...   I think something around a 40lb filter will be more than adequate for your 1K grow but it's better to get one too big than too small.  You could separate the filter from your exhaust and just run the filter constantly from within the room with another, lower powered fan...  one rated for the filter probably closer to 300cfm...   If you hook up a filter to an inline fan and keep it constantly exchanging the air in the room thru the filter odors never get a chance to build up at all... period...   And you can hook up your exhaust for your lights independently...  You could even pull fresh air from outside to the intake side of your light's hood/cool tube and pull the heat off the bulb and exhaust it outside...   This is probably the most efficient way to set up your system...

ONE more thought...  For $29 you can buy a 'Speedster' motor speed controller and have your high output exhaust fan plugged into it for precise control of air flow cuz when it's cooler outside you'll be able to back off on the fan speed/noise made by the exhaust.  The fans are pretty quiet especially if you don't couple them with your structure and use heavy duty rubber straps (next to bungee at home depot) to hand the fan from.  Most of the noise however is from the w-h-o-o-o-o-o-s-h of air going thru your ductwork...   If you can use insulated duct it helps cut the w-h-o-o-o-o-o-s-h down quite a bit...

I'll read back thru your post...  but this may give you some info to start with.  hit me back if you have more questions...

Peace!


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## Tact (Oct 29, 2009)

dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> HI Tact...
> 
> GREAT post... very well put together...   WELCOME to MP!



Thanks bro, I appreciate the hospitality! :smoke1:



			
				dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> I have a 40 lb carbon filter first in my ventilation chain, then a 6" chunk of the semi rigid, bendable 6" duct about 18" long going from my filter that's hung high in my closet to the intake side of my cool tube... then out of the cool tube into a rigid elbow connector and it then goes up an 8' piece of 6" semi rigid duct.



So do you have duct work going _in_, and _out_ of your lamp? The lamps I have been able to find only have one flange, allowing for only one duct piece, which I assume is for exhaust? This is what I am not getting about ventilation, when people are bringing in active air, are they just dropping a piece of duct work on the floor that is somehow bringing air in from outside. Like a blower by a window pushing air 20 feet into the grow room itself, then the exhaust coming off the lamp and going outside?



			
				dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> You could separate the filter from your exhaust and just run the filter constantly from within the room with another, lower powered fan... one rated for the filter probably closer to 300cfm... If you hook up a filter to an inline fan and keep it constantly exchanging the air in the room thru the filter odors never get a chance to build up at all... period... And you can hook up your exhaust for your lights independently... You could even pull fresh air from outside to the intake side of your light's hood/cool tube and pull the heat off the bulb and exhaust it outside... This is probably the most efficient way to set up your system...



So hook up a carbon filter (40 lb. you suggested?) to a 300 CFM blower and just mount it to a piece of wood and put it on the floor for example? Then the air in the room itself would be getting scrubbed before the exhaust even has a chance to push the air from the room out of my house through my dryer duct exhaust?



			
				dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> The fans are pretty quiet especially if you don't couple them with your structure and use heavy duty rubber straps (next to bungee at home depot) to hand the fan from.



Great idea !

Thanks so much for taking the time to help Dirty South, karma gods always find a way to smile on such things. BTW how do I thank people in forum threads?  :ccc:


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## DonJones (Oct 29, 2009)

Tact,

*WELCOME OT THE FORUMS.  THEY ARE AN EXCELLENT SOURCE OF INFORMATION, BUT READ THE IMPORTANT MESSAGE POSTED AT THE START OF EACH FORUM AND SUB-FORUM.*

Unless you learn a whole lot real quick you are going to get yourself into a lot of trouble blindly asking questions and following blindly following answers from the forums.  Now before everyone starts pissing and moaning, I use the forums a whole lot for growing information, but without a GOOD basic understanding of electrical things, these Q & As will get you hurt real quick.
*
For your own safety and benefit, address electrical and heating/air conditioning questions to professionals in those fields, not your unknown grow buddy.  Questions here on those issues should be more of the nature of "How much electrical power do I need for a grow room of a given size?"  and "what kind of ventilation do I need?" then "How do I handle my odor problem?" and PLEASE SEPARATE THEM OUT INTO DIFFERENT THREADS SO YOU CAN FOLLOW THE ANSWERS AND THE PEOPLE ANSWERING CAN FOLLOW THEM TOO.  If I know a lot about say heating/air conditioning (no I don't claim to know a lot about any one subject, but I do know enough about a lot of things to know when I'm getting good or bad advice and when I'm going to get into trouble) but little about electrical and even less about odor control, how long do you think I'm going to try to follow a thread that deals with several things besides the heating/air conditioning topic before I get frustrated and drop out?* 

The rest of this post will deal with the electrical issues because without electricity your dead in the water.  I'll address your other issues in separate posts, that way they are easier to follow and comment on.

It is impossible to answer your questions about the electrical issues because you aren't giving us anywhere near enough information.  Stop and think, has anyone asked you about what kind of electrical service your old house currently has -- like does it use fuses or circuit breakers, how far is it from you main box to your grow room, how much amperage will you current main service handle?  If you have a 100 amp fused main panel, you are NOT going ot safely be able to add 40 or more amps to the load without having to shut down part of the house when you are running the grow room.  Also her are 2 vital terms for you 110v = 120v and 220v = 240v -- they are just different ways of measuring the same thing.  If you want a better explanation than that you are going to need at least a basic understand of AC electricity.

My following answers are based on the premise that you have sufficient residual available power in your main service after you subtract what you currently use from its total rating.  For example I have a 200 amp 220 volt circuit breaker main panel that I use a electric water heater (30 amp, 220 volt) and a electric clothes dryer (30 amp @ 220 volts) and a 70 amp @ 220 volt sub panel for my shop running off of. That gives me a current 220 volt load of 130 amps leaving me 70 amps @ 220 volts or 140 amps @ 110 volts available to run the entire house off of.  Now if I take 40 [email protected] 220 volts for my grow room, which is the equivalent to 80 amps @ 110 volts or 4 20 amp 110 volt circuits, that leaves me with 30 amps @ 220 or 60 amps @ 110 volts to run the rest of the house off of.  That is marginal for the average house but since you live by yourself, that would probably be sufficient IF you don't use electric heat or air conditioning.

In my case I'm in a lot better shape than the numbers show because my shop only uses the whole 70 amps @ 220 volts when both my commercial air compresseor and electric welder are running at the same time, which is very seldom.

Now do you see what the problem with simplistic questions and simplistic answers are?

*My advice to you is to get a couple of estimates on having a sub panel of at least 40 amps @ 220 volts installed in your basement with say 4 different 20 amps @ 110 volts circuits installed in your grow room with the plugins mounted from the ceiling.  If the want to know why you need it, tel them you are going to start doing wood work in there and want each of your major tools on separate circuits.  That is a totally normal set up for a hobby wood working shop and will be sufficient for your grow needs for ever.  Use 110 volt lights and fans, it is a lot simpler that way.  The reason you see so many people talking about 220v lights is because there was a time that 11o v HID (MH/HPS) light weren't available.*


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## DonJones (Oct 29, 2009)

Now to the issue of the basic suitability of your basement for a grow area.  IF if is always damp and musty down there, it is a good bet that you are going to have issues with MOLD, being too cool, and not enough fresh air.

First fix the cracks that you were talking about so that you have a cleaner and less moldy environment.  Then figure out what you are going to do about heat in the winter because most basements without a heat source are going to be in the 50f to 60f range or cooler, which is really too cool to grow effectively in.

Next, what are you going to do to get fresh air into the grow operation because exhaust ventilation will NOT work without a suitable and equal source of fresh air.  Also you are going to have to be heating that air in the winter.  The plants need a lot of fresh air regardless of whether or not you have a heat problem and the warmer it gets the more fresh air they need.  You will get all kinds of estimates on how much fresh air you need but I think everyone agrees you need pretty close to at least 1 complete air exchange per minute, and I think that is actually on the low side.  To figure out how much many air exchanges you will get, you figure the cubic feet of your grow room and divide that into the Cubic Feet per Minute your ventilation system will move.  the result is your fresh air/stale air exchanges per minute.  In your case the volume of your grow room is 234 cf which would theoretically give you 2.8 air exchanges per minute with a 650 cfm fan.  On a practical basis I would figure getting 2 exchanges/min because the 650 cfm fan will NOT move that much air through filters and tubing, especially the flexible kind or through elbows and Tees.

*Without being able to see your house, I would suggest that you get the 650 cfm fan and vent it outside and try running it for a while  to see if it gets rid of the stale musty odor before going any farther with your grow operation.  One possible solution to the heat issue is what I do in my home.  I draw the fresh air out of my heated area and vent the "stale" air back into the house and let the house heating and air conditioning take care of the heating cooling issue.  *


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## DonJones (Oct 29, 2009)

Now lets talk about the lighting issue.

Most people seem to sue 5,000 lumens/square foot as the standard in determining how much light you need.  In your case your floor area is 36 square feet -- 6X6=36 ( the height isn't real relevant because you can adjust the distance the lights are above the plants by several different means).  When you multiply that by 5,000 lumens/ square foot you get 180,000 lumens needed.  Since 1000 watt HPS average around 135,000 lumens, on e 1000 HPS will be marginal. However, using the specs for Pulserite 600 watt HPS @ 90,000 lumens 2 600 watt HPS lights would be right on the money and 2 1000watt HPS would be over kill but not enough to hurt any thing except to generate more heat.  In my humble opinion 2 600s is almost always better than 1 one 1000 because it gives you safety if you loose a ballast or a bulb since you will still have 600 watts available while you get it replaced instead of no light.  Also, it lets you distribute the light a little better.  Running all MH or a mixture of HPS and MH during veg seems to give a lot better results than just using HPS all the way through, or you could add the needed blue spectrum by adding several "cool white" fluorescent lights during veg.

*In my opinion it it better to get 2 600s with switchable/autosensing ballasts so that you can run either MH or HPS because they are a lot cheaper than buying one MH ballast and another HPS ballast.  Keep looking around for cool tube type lights that use 2 fittings, one for intake and one for exhaust with a sealed housing including a sealed glass lens because then you can control the light heat without having to worry about the odor problem.  If you just start looking on the various hydro/grow equipment suppliers web sites they are readily available.*

Now lest's see what kind of a hornet's nest I've stirred up.

The best of every thing to you.  I don't want to discourage you, but on the other hand I do NOT want to see you make mistakes because you jumped in without thinking things through.  It is a lot less expensive and safer to think things through before you start than to correct errors after you get started.

In case you are wondering, I have a 12' x 6' flower room and a 4' x 12' veg room and it is already becoming too small, but then I'm trying to supply the medicinal needs of 3 patients.  Currently I run 5 400 watt MHs but am updating as I get money. 

Also, if oyu are going to try to run one grow area, you might consider growing one or more of the autoflowering strains because they are simpler to grow.  You don't have to switch light schedules or light types and you don't have to worry about when to put them into flower because they switch on their own.  They don't usually yield quite as much per plant/grow as the normal strains, but they are a lot more flexible and let you keep a perpetual harvest going in one room if that interests you.  Also they run between 40 and 80 days from planting the seed to harvest so over the period of a year, you can get nearly the same or maybe even more yield because of the mjore crops that you can grow.


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## Tact (Oct 29, 2009)

Hey Don, thanks for the reply I really appreciate it bro! Seriously, these forums are very warm, and friendly, I am truly impressed and grateful. Few sources of information exist in this world that help to alleviate the questions of the human condition like a website full of helpful people, competently, realistically, and supportively aiding people in the _safe _pursuit of fat buds :watchplant:.



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> Tact,
> 
> *WELCOME OT THE FORUMS. THEY ARE AN EXCELLENT SOURCE OF INFORMATION, BUT READ THE IMPORTANT MESSAGE POSTED AT THE START OF EACH FORUM AND SUB-FORUM.*



Thank you for the welcome, after I made my post I started looking at the _'sticky' _posts at the top, I did not even notice them before hand, I am not an avid forum poster on the internet. On that note I really appreciate people answering my questions when I clearly could of _'searched'_ some of my questions prior to asking them. Your advice on not taking hardcore electricial information as anything more then a basis before consulting a professional is a wise one, thank you for putting that in perspective for _my_ own safety!



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> Now if I take 40 [email protected] 220 volts for my grow room, which is the equivalent to 80 amps @ 110 volts or 4 20 amp 110 volt circuits, that leaves me with 30 amps @ 220 or 60 amps @ 110 volts to run the rest of the house off of. That is marginal for the average house but since you live by yourself, that would probably be sufficient IF you don't use electric heat or air conditioning.



My house is extremely inefficient, and I am a bit of an energy hog, though I am starting to take steps to lower my carbon footprint. In the summers it gets extremely uncomfortable in my house, even with the AC running all day (until the sun sets). My AC can not get the temps below 75 degrees even when it runs constantly, it is like an epic battle between two elements, _Fire and Ice _(seen the movie anyone?), and my AC rarely beats mother nature. I have had my AC looked at etc by HVAC pros and they all say my AC is fine etc. Its just a poorly insulated house with a not-so-great addition the previous owner made, in my opinion to increase the square footage prior to trying to sell it. In the winters I do run my HEAT and I also leave a PC on 24/7 for networking purposes, given that I would rather have too much amperage available then too little.



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> *My advice to you is to get a couple of estimates on having a sub panel of at least 40 amps @ 220 volts installed in your basement with say 4 different 20 amps @ 110 volts circuits installed in your grow room with the plugins mounted from the ceiling. *



So a sub-panel, I take it is a separate box, next to, or near my existing circuit breaker box? BTW the distance from the grow area to my circuit breaker box is about 10 feet, very very close. What you reckon a rough ballpark estimate would be for such a thing $300-$500 from an electrician? Cost is not an issue really, more so I want convenience to plug things in, the ceiling is a great idea for where to put the outlets, that should help keep cables off the floor. So one outlet for the lamp exclusively, one or two for the blowers, and then another outlet for an oscilatting fan/(de)humidifier/radio etc, which should all be able to share an outlet. That seems perfect.




			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> First fix the cracks that you were talking about so that you have a cleaner and less moldy environment. Then figure out what you are going to do about heat in the winter because most basements without a heat source are going to be in the 50f to 60f range or cooler, which is really too cool to grow effectively in.



Great idea, I was thinking of filling in the cracks with an epoxy, then painting the walls, and floor of the grow area with that gray paint you see in automotive garages, half the basement is carpet over concrete, no pad. I know there is something you can treat walls with, hand held light of some kind that you can _zap_ mold on walls with, then _'seal' _that wall with an anti-mold agent.. i will do some research.

I never thought about heat for the winter, hmm. To use a heat exhange from the rest of my house would mean either going up some stairs with duct work, or finding/increasing the size of a hole in the floor somewhere in my basement ceiling. Originally, I was going to exhaust through my dryer ductwork outside, and bring in air through a different, side window in my basement on the back of my house where a window opens up to my backyard. I was considering opening the window (it slides left to right), putting in a piece of wood cut to fit the size of the window (in front of the screen that is) and cut out a whole 6"-8" in the wood for the duct work to rest in, secure it, and use that for an active intake. This would be right behind my AC unit, well hidden and in my backyard. This however does not address the issue of bringing in cold-cooler air into the grow room, and then how to heat it for the MJ, Missouri has hot-humid summers, and cold-brutal winters. Very good point that I had not considered. Perhaps in the winter I could just use a scrubber in the grow room itself to scrub the air, but not exhaust it all? Using the lamp to raise the ambient temperature of the room. Somehow this seems like a bad idea to me. 



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> *Without being able to see your house, I would suggest that you get the 650 cfm fan and vent it outside and try running it for a while to see if it gets rid of the stale musty odor before going any farther with your grow operation. One possible solution to the heat issue is what I do in my home. I draw the fresh air out of my heated area and vent the "stale" air back into the house and let the house heating and air conditioning take care of the heating cooling issue.*



I will attach a few pictures of my basement, and make a basic top-down layout schematic.




			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> *
> In my opinion it it better to get 2 600s with switchable/autosensing ballasts so that you can run either MH or HPS because they are a lot cheaper than buying one MH ballast and another HPS ballast. Keep looking around for cool tube type lights that use 2 fittings, one for intake and one for exhaust with a sealed housing including a sealed glass lens because then you can control the light heat without having to worry about the odor problem. If you just start looking on the various hydro/grow equipment suppliers web sites they are readily available.*



Interesting, maybe I will do (2) 600s then, I could always reduce the size of my grow ares with a partition-like tent of Mylar/some reflective material to make my grow area smaller, and more proportionate to the lumens that a typical 1000w HPS/MH will produce. I was looking into the switchable ballasts, and was planning on getting an MH and HPS bulb to better harness the full growth of veg (20/4 or 18/6) before going flowering (12/12). Great info.

Thanks again for taking the time out of your day to respond to my questions!

:bong:


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## Tact (Oct 29, 2009)

DonJones, I uploaded some photos.

Photo #1: This is the doorway that leads from the wooden partitioned side of the grow area, the back wall and right wall being concrete, with the last open area leading to my dryer/washing machine and HVAC/water heater. The floor is covered in carpet up to the sliding door, then is poured concrete beyond and in the grow area.

Photo #2: This is the window I was thinking of running the active exhaust to, it is directly behind where I was standing when taking photo #1. You can see some ductwork along the ceiling, that seems to dump outside, through I am not sure if cutting into that is a good idea??

Photo #3: This is the mold I was talking about, this is at the base of my stairway leading down to my basement. I do not seem to see any mold in the poured concrete side of my basement, but I don't go back there nearly as much either, it only takes one mold spore also is my understanding.

Layout schematic: I just wanted to give you a quick perspective of my basements layout, I would say the dimensions are roughly 15'x30', but I am guesstimating.

Photo #4: Movie poster of Fire & Ice (1983) .


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## SkunkPatronus (Oct 29, 2009)

Find a decent electrician and support his family, you really need his expertise, you know nothing and it could kill you.  I did and i have had him come back a number of times to do more stuff, clearly worth every penny.  Get the outlets that pop 'off' when water hits them...   don't ask.

Choose another method of dumping the hot humid stinky air, you're clothes drier will smell like a skunk if you use the same ductwork as it, because it will permeate any ducting attached.  It looks like you have a window available in that basement, use that?  And you sure don't want fluff in your light...yikes!

An ozone maker will keep the basement smell free, for times when you open the room up to work with the plants.  It will also kill off molds, yeasts, bacteria and viruses in your basement.  I make mine, i have a few.  Find an old neon sign and remove the transformer and make one, the internet is chuck full of diy ozone maker instructions. 

Fire wall your ceiling so that you can stop worrying about it, but it probably won't be an issue.

Don't invest in the best switchable ballast that could light up Las Vegas and forget about all the other stuff needed to grow, balance your budget and don't forget to invest in the little things that get overlooked after the million dollar light... a decent ph meter, good nutes, decent dirt, decent seeds. 

Good luck with your learning curve, it's a looooong strange trip.


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

hey if you got electrical questions pm me i can help you out.ive been an sparky (electrician) for a long time. subpanel is the way to go like don said. but keep in mind if you choose 240 your timers and stuff will have to match. you can still run 2 600 off a 20 amp breaker and be fine. the actual breaker will trip at 16 amps. a 1000 draws 9.5 amps on 120 so you could really only have 1 light per breaker with maybe couple fans.if you have room in box for more breakers and wanna stay cheap thats the way to go. either way you are safe. one is not safer than other just a matter of what you have left in your main box for spaces.


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## BBFan (Oct 29, 2009)

Hi Tact.

I wouldn't dare offer any suggestions.  May I instead wish you good luck in your endeavor.  I look forward to seeing your first grow.

Based on the quality of your questions- sounds like you'll do great.  I'm sure you'll do the right things, and do things right.  Welcome to MP!


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## kasgrow (Oct 29, 2009)

For heat in the winter you can turn off your light fan. You can use a dehumidifier to solve any humidity problems. You don't need to exhaust your air in the grow room if you run co2. I never exchange the air in my flower room because I use co2. In the summer I run the fan to cool my lights when they are on. In the winter time I put the fan on a timer to control temps. A basement is actually a good place to use if set up right because it stays cool. With some on and off times of your light fan you can control temps. My lights have ducting from the outside through the light reflectors and up through the roof. Remember the plants take in co2 through their leaves and exhaust oxygen so you have no need to replace the air in your grow room if you add co2. 
As for the electrical questions an electrician will have to make sure you have capacity to run the power. You can have the main panel replaced with one that can handle the extra panel. You do want to add a sub panel and an electrician will install a sub panel for your hot tub. I use a 50 amp sub panel in my garden. The electrician will be able to tell you what gauge of wire you need based on the distance from you main panel and your sub panel. You will have to get an estimate from the electrician because I do my own electrical wiring. The 220 timers are to control you lights on and off times.


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## kasgrow (Oct 29, 2009)

If your room is sealed up and use co2 you don't need to worry about a carbon filter because you are not pumping your grow room air outside. .


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## DonJones (Oct 29, 2009)

Tact,

Thanks for the pictures.  

The first thing I see is you have more than a mold problem there.  You have a crack that is letting ground water seep through the crack in your wall.  If you don't get it fixed correctly it will only get worse.

On the electrical issue, take Dr Pyro up on his offer.  With his guidance and a little common sense you can probably do this your self.  Forget about using 240/220v volts any further than the subpanel.  It only complicates buying equipment.  timers, lights, fans, pumps and what ever will all be more expensive and have no advantage.  one advantage that you have is an unfinished ceiling so you have a place to run the wiring.

Let me think about the other issues.  Oh yes, what is behind the wall where that round duct goes through?


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## kasgrow (Oct 29, 2009)

I use a 600watt and a 1000watt hps in my garden that is 6x8. I plan on replacing my 600watt with another 1000 watt hps. I also am going to get a light mover so the light will cover my whole garden. I grow trees in my garden so I need more light to penetrate the canopy. If I could afford the electricity I would add two more 1000 watt hps. If you check out my sig you will see old pictures of my grow room.


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## DonJones (Oct 29, 2009)

*CAUTION -- supplementing CO2 is NOT a thing to do lightly or a substitute for getting everything else right first!  If you don't have everything else dialed in, the supplementing with CO2 is a waste of time and money.  Supplementing CO2 is a very advanced technique and not to be used by anyone without good habits and information.  If you are interested there are other threads dealing with the pros and cons, but it is NOT amateur hour if you don't want it to kill someone!
*
Even more important, supplementing with CO2 in a NON airtight room what abuts a living area is very dangerous as is forgetting to thoroughly ventilate the grow area before going inside.

*That stuff will kill you or your loved ones if you aren't very careful!*


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

very good advice don


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## Tact (Oct 29, 2009)

SkunkPatronus said:
			
		

> Choose another method of dumping the hot humid stinky air, you're clothes drier will smell like a skunk if you use the same ductwork as it, because it will permeate any ducting attached. It looks like you have a window available in that basement, use that? And you sure don't want fluff in your light...yikes!



Good advice, I will take this to heart. I have two windows along the wall that my circuit breaker box is on in my basement (as seen in my top-down paint basement layout drawing), I could use one window for exhaust, and one for intake? The exhaust window being the one behind my air conditioner unit in my backyard.



			
				dr pyro said:
			
		

> hey if you got electrical questions pm me i can help you out.ive been an sparky (electrician) for a long time. subpanel is the way to go like don said.



Thanks for the guidance! I will private message you a question for some clarification, but plan on contacting a licensed electrician on Monday.



			
				MindzEye said:
			
		

> IMO before any of this is done you need to seal those cracks and sterilize your basement... All that mold is no bueno for buds...



This will be my next task, over the week I am going to research how to seal this crack, and 'seal' the area with an anti-molding finish. Thanks for the reply bro. 



			
				BBFan said:
			
		

> I wouldn't dare offer any suggestions. May I instead wish you good luck in your endeavor. I look forward to seeing your first grow.



Thanks man, I appreciate the good vibes! :ccc:



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> Oh yes, what is behind the wall where that round duct goes through?



Behind that wall is an open area in-between the grow area and my HVAC/water heater. You can see that open-spot in my original post, picture #2, that is angled towards my dryer.



			
				kasgrow said:
			
		

> If you check out my sig you will see old pictures of my grow room.



Will do bro, the more info the better, I am a sponge. :bong:

Thank you everyone for your replies, I truly appreciate you all taking the time to respond, multiple times in some cases, to my questions and concerns.


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## kasgrow (Oct 29, 2009)

Co2 is not that difficult. You just need to study up on it. Seal your room and monitor your c02 with a cheap test kit and then keep it there. C02 is not dangerous if you keep your levels right. If you can exchange your air in the room without temp and humidity problems then you don't need it but it helps. I have used c02 in my garden for years now with no problems so I know what I am talking about and I have the buds to prove it. Co2 sinks to the floor and not up. You need to use fans to circulate it. My co2 hoses are on the ceiling so the co2 can sink down to the plants. Once you have your regulator dialed in to maintain it's level you just keep it there.


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

kasgrow said:
			
		

> Co2 is not that difficult. You just need to study up on it. Seal your room and monitor your c02 with a cheap test kit and then keep it there. C02 is not dangerous if you keep your levels right. If you can exchange your air in the room without temp and humidity problems then you don't need it but it helps. I have used c02 in my garden for years now with no problems so I know what I am talking about and I have the buds to prove it. Co2 sinks to the floor and not up. You need to use fans to circulate it. My co2 hoses are on the ceiling so the co2 can sink down to the plants. Once you have your regulator dialed in to maintain it's level you just keep it there.


haha you can not just get a bottle and a timer and just toss it in and get results. you need the proper equip to run this setup effectively. look to spend over 1200.00 to get monitors and controllers to run this equip in sinq with each other. cheap test kits a garbage and co2 is dangerous.please you seem to have very limitied  knowledge. this can get somebody killed.i advise whos reading not to listen to this guy. get the right equip that when co2 levels get to high the system shuts down and when low it auto turns on. all this has to tie into your exhaust so when exhaust is on your co2 is off. just because you run co2 doesnt mean you dont have to exchange the air you still must exchange air.


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## kasgrow (Oct 29, 2009)

dr pyro said:
			
		

> haha you can not just get a bottle and a timer and just toss it in and get results. you need the proper equip to run this setup effectively. look to spend over 1200.00 to get monitors and controllers to run this equip in sinq with each other. cheap test kits a garbage and co2 is dangerous.please you seem to have very limitied knowelge that can get somebody killed.i advise whos reading not to listen to this guy. get the right equip that when co2 levels get to high the system shuts down and when low it auto turns on. all this has to tie into your exhaust so when exhaust is on your co2 is off. just because you run co2 doesnt mean you dont have to exchange the air you still must exchande air.


Do you use c02? All you need is a tank, regulator, timer and test kit. Do you have a clue of how to use co2. It is not dangerous if you use it right. You don't need to exhaust your room you just need to keep your co2 levels right. I have been growing for about 30 years now and c02 is not rocket science. I spent about 500 dollars for all the equipment I use. Two tanks, a regulator, timer, test kit, and hose. Do some research before you decide I don't know what I am talking about. A tank last me 3 weeks. I have not used an exhaust fan in my room since I started using co2 and I grow big healthy plants. I think it is you that he should not listen too.


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

im not here to argue.please do some more reading before posting your making yourself look like a fool.to all check around the board here there are people who run it correct with great results.


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

and yes i do run it with grest success. my results from the simple toss in bottle in timer method where horrible alittle bit of dif but not much.my results now blow away my previous setup but it cost me like 1400 with my co2 generator


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

o by the way your posts seem to have some flaws its not 220 he would run its 240 bud also 110 try 120 like i said your knowelege is limitied


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## Tact (Oct 29, 2009)

Well. Regardless I have some costs to worry about prior to C02, like dropping $500-$1000 on an electrician, yet to buy a light, soils, nutes, clean up the mold, and run the duct work. I do have my seeds though!

Kasgrow I appreciate the advice, I think people are just looking out for the interest of people who don't have your extensive 30 years of experience in growing buds, which is very impressive. 

It's all good. :ccc:

BTW dr pyro love your avatar, Grandma's Boy is ******* hilarious.


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## kasgrow (Oct 29, 2009)

Here is a recent picture of my garden with no exhaust. You decide who to listen to.


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

your pics mean nothing to me when your pulling ozs i'm pulling lbs bud. b sure to check out my journal i will post up from start to finish when harvest is done. i will post all details from equip to my final weight.any way i'm not jacking his thread to argue with you.tact you wanna see some pics just hit me up in pm ill send some to ya.like i said tact any quest feel free to hit me up via pm


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## dr pyro (Oct 29, 2009)

oops double post. don offers sound advice he knows his stuff


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## kasgrow (Oct 30, 2009)

dr pyro said:
			
		

> your pics mean nothing to me when your pulling ozs i'm pulling lbs bud. b sure to check out my journal i will post up from start to finish when harvest is done. i will post all details from equip to my final weight.any way i'm not jacking his thread to argue with you.tact you wanna see some pics just hit me up in pm ill send some to ya.like i said tact any quest feel free to hit me up via pm



I pull pounds too. Those are just a couple of my plants. One papaya on the right and an og kush on the left. I have a perpetual harvest so they are at different stages. There are many more in there like it. I am not here to argue either but when you say somebody doesn't know what they are talking about and give false information I have to call you on it.


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## kasgrow (Oct 30, 2009)

Sorry for the argument with dr pyro Tact. Good luck with your room and do lots of research. If you have any more questions(edit) post them here. Where the accumulative knowledge and experience are allowed to elaborate and/or review it  There is a lot of good and bad advice out there.


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## Hick (Oct 30, 2009)

co2 can and will "KILL" if not administered and monitored properly. Because kasgrow has extensive experience with it, does not mean it should be taken lightly. Three decades of experience useing it in "your" grow, does not excuse advice that could put someone in danger. 
If the basement is often occupied by any other living beings, be it pets or people. Serious consideration, steps should be taken to ensure their safety. Such as co2 monitors, the grow being "sealed" and exhausted _out_ of any living areas.


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## kasgrow (Oct 30, 2009)

I agree with you on this Hick. I don't live in my garden nor do any pets. The key is a sealed room. Don't vent into your living space. If co2 is leaking into your living area at too high of a concentration it can be dangerous and kill. You don't need to max out your ppm's for healthy growth. I test my ppm's from time to time to make sure all is well.


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## Growdude (Oct 30, 2009)

Tact said:
			
		

> Well. Regardless I have some costs to worry about prior to C02, like dropping $500-$1000 on an electrician,



If you go with the 2, 600 watt lights they can be safely run from a single 20 amp 110/120 circuit. And by the way 110/120 or 220/240 are considered the same voltage and are often referred to equally.

So with just 2, 20 amp 110 volt circuits you would be in business.


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## dr pyro (Oct 30, 2009)

same voltage diffrent plugs i sent him a pm on  using 600s those 600 will draw around 10amp with 6 left for some fans and what not


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## dr pyro (Oct 30, 2009)

cost ya maybe 300-500 for breakers and plugs installed depends on how much wire he may have to run.


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## kasgrow (Oct 30, 2009)

kasgrow said:
			
		

> Co2 is not that difficult. You just need to study up on it. Seal your room and monitor your c02 with a cheap test kit and then keep it there. C02 is not dangerous if you keep your levels right. If you can exchange your air in the room without temp and humidity problems then you don't need it but it helps. I have used c02 in my garden for years now with no problems so I know what I am talking about and I have the buds to prove it. Co2 sinks to the floor and not up. You need to use fans to circulate it. My co2 hoses are on the ceiling so the co2 can sink down to the plants. Once you have your regulator dialed in to maintain it's level you just keep it there.



As you can see I didn't give bad advise. I said to study up on the subject first and maintain proper levels.


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## dr pyro (Oct 30, 2009)

y are you still starting stuff get off his thread you got something to say to me send it via pm keep this out of his thread


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## kasgrow (Oct 30, 2009)

I am not starting anything I am just debating what has been said.
Remember I am talking about tanks not generators. Generators need constant monitoring, tanks don't. I will not post in his thread anymore out of respect for him, you can stop anytime also.


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## 3rdbase (Oct 30, 2009)

fiiiiiiiiiiyyyyyyaaaaaa!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!noooooooooooooo!!   quit ya blodclot cryan


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## dr pyro (Oct 30, 2009)

mindz so you wanna have a grow off im stayin away from you ive seen your pics haha do it up lets see co2 bottle timer vs your setup.i got money on you


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## dr pyro (Nov 5, 2009)

any updates bud you get the electrician there yet


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## Tact (Nov 8, 2009)

dr pyro said:
			
		

> any updates bud you get the electrician there yet


Yo! Electrician is coming out on the 12th, and I got two quotes from handymen to start work sometime next week. I will attach a layout picture of my plan at this time. My cover for the moment is I am going to have a pottery wheel (like in the movie Ghost :hubba. Therefore this pottery wheel generates a lot of heat due to keeping the clay at a malleable temperature, requiring ventilation in and out of the room by way of ducting. I am having the handyman seal off the sliding door way, and make a hidden bookshelf, that opens like a door. See link below (I can't link sites till 15 posts, I will post twice more then link it as a reply!).


The one good thing about the economy sucking is handymen are working for cheap, both guys said they could do this door and all the work in one day. My light arrives the same day the electricians come on the 12th, and due the good graces of DirtyolSouth I have been getting great input, back and fourth dialogue and suggestions regarding getting everything squared away. Picked up some Advanced Nutrients (per Souths nute lineup suggestion) from a all-cash seller in downtown STL (seedy warehouse, no sign ). Got some Fox Farms Ocean Forest/Light Warrior, pH meter/calibration, all my pots, etc. Picked up a Can 33/6"HO combo that will just scrub air in the room, and have a 409 CFM I am going to use in the duct work, considering getting a second one to make sure the duct work has great air flow from intake to exhaust. 

Needless to say I am excited to get started, getting closer each day. The bug man sprayed on Friday, the whole perimeter of the grow area, whole basement, and exhaust and intake of the duct work areas to come.


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## Tact (Nov 8, 2009)

And this makes 15!

:clap:

Hidden book shelf in action.
hXXp://video.yahoo.com/watch/496987/2644143

How to make it:

hXXp://www.instructables.com/id/Hidden-Door-Bookshelf/

Though this is just an 'option', default studs and door is in the estimate also.

Showing this to the handymen, they said they could make it np.


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## DonJones (Nov 8, 2009)

Tact,

Before you spend a lot of money on a concealed doorway, think of this "What would your first reaction be if you went into a basement and saw a pair of walls that obviously weren't outside walls and formed a room in the corner with NO apparent way in or out?"  My first thought would be "What is he hiding behind those walls?  I'll bet most of you would have similar reactions too.  I'll guarantee you that any competent drug cop will see that as a flag immediately and either tear the walls down to see what is behind them or find a sympathetic judge to issue a search warrant allowing them to tear down anything suspicious.

Concealed doorways are only effective when it is not obvious that there is a room or passage way behind the wall the hidden doorway is in.

Yes, the hidden doorway is kind of cool, but it really isn't going to serve any purpose.  How are you going to conceal the signs of frequent traffic through your book case?  How are you going to explain the ducting going into and out of the walled off area?  

Regardless of whether you try to hide it or not, you need to get rid of the slider and have some kind of swinging door with an overlap to stop the light.  If you need the extra storage of the shelving down that wall that is fine, but do NOT close that corner of without some visible access or you might as well put up a sing saying something like "Guess what I have hidden in this area.  A much more effective thing would be to close the doorway off, build your shelves, close off the end of the grow area by the water heater with some kind of usable doorway through that wall.

Remember the purpose of "stealth" is NOT to hide something as much as to avoid arousing suspicion.  A room with no visible access is an instant flag of suspicion.  On the other hand a cobbled together looking wall and doorway just looks like someone really didn't care about what was behind the walls.  Of course it must blend into the rest of the basement.  Either too shoddy of workmanship or t good of workmanship in relation to the rest of the basement will both raise flags of suspicion.

Just my experience in law enforcement in the military and searching for contraband of all sorts.


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## Tact (Nov 8, 2009)

Don, 

There is a door right next to where the sliding door was, its in the layout picture as a square, like a window. There is another sliding door farther down in the layout by the washer and dryer. No one except me has ever even been in my basement (except the electrician/handymen), much less police officers, not even my girlfriend of 3.5 years has set foot in my basement, it is unused except for weights, washer/dryer. Like I said though, the hidden bookshelf is an option, with the main estimate being for studding and a lockable door. If the police start going through my house I don't know if a locked door would be any more of deterrent then a hidden bookshelf . 

Having said that, I am not spending a lot of money, which is why this economy + handymen work is so good like I said! There is no way great way explain to ducting going in the grow room, or out of the room, with either a standard door, or a hidden bookshelf doorway, either way its obvious this ducting is out of place as my dryer is on the other side of my basement already. My floor joist layout simply sucks for running more duct work, cant saw holes through them as it would be dangerous to the stability of the floor above, so I need to drop under them and run against the 'grain' of the the direction they run. Horizontally with the joists is almost completely occupied by duct work already in place for the A/C system duct work, the path of least resistance, and short of a mess of duct work mazes across my basement s to run the duct work as it is in the layout diagram. 

If people are searching my house for something illegal I would have major problems already it seems, I would hope it would never get to the point people are *1)* in my basement _period,_ or *2)* police are searching my basement/house at all . I am going out of my way to make sure all the air is scrubbed in the room 2.5x a minute, not letting stagnate smell build at all much less leave the room, and light can't escape above the floor joists in the room itself to the rest of the basement due to stapling black bag/insulation around the ceiling floor joist openings. I appreciate your concern though, I have no tools, and the cost of tools would be far more then having a guy put up a partition w/door and run a straight line of duct work through (2) 6" holes, similar to dryer exhaust vents already in place in my basement.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 8, 2009)

It looks like you are drawing air from outside the room, through the light, and then ducted outside the room to cool the light, which is great.  However, you are going to need to exchange the air in your space 3-4 times a minute.  Do you have plans for fresh air exchange?

I agree with Don on the door thing.  And what do the handymen think about a hidden door?


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## Tact (Nov 8, 2009)

The handyman said he had built them before and that he just did one for a wealthy family that wanted one for their children, I told him I needed shelf space in my basement and why not do shelf I saw online and just make it a door? He went on to make suggestions as to 'hide' a lockable door knob by hollowing out a book and putting it over the knob , he also said the steel frame in the DYI links above were not needed unless I was putting more then 500 lbs on the door/shelf. So he seemed game, but I guess it is completely unnecessary.

Pictures attached, this shows the "north' wall of my layout, it has an 80 year old coal chute. This pops off but has awkward dimensions that I have been able to find an A/C unit of fitting within. It can not be 'cracked' open, its either on, or off, it used to have hinges but when I had my driveway done they had to pop off the hinges in order to properly make the driveway contour away from there so water would run the other direction (which it does). If its off the whole door is off, with a big opening obviously. I will attach a few more pictures of my idea of how the duct work and hole would run into one side of my basement to the other side and exit

Would bringing air through such an intake, not be enough you gather? Is the idea that the exhaust would be taking all the intake air before the plants get to eat up the C02/fresh air? If that is the case, then I guess a third hole (separate from intake/exhaust) would have to be figured out. Originally an A/C was going to be used in the 'hatch' spot, but I can't find one that fits there, also the shot from my driveway shows an A/C hanging out the back of such an area could look odd, the vents however could just be assumed to be dryer venting for all anyone knows.

Something like this used for the intake/exhaust vents:

*http://www.iaqsource.com/product.php/fantech/com6p/?product=112108

http://www.artiscaps.com/exhaust.html

http://www.irawoods.com/Fantech-DGD6-Designer-Exhaust-Grill-w-Collar-Damper-for-6in-Duct



*

Edit: I re drew up the layout to show the changes to the door, and detailing some of the other things in the basement. Also the sliding door by the grow room was taken OFF the sliding mechanism rail, which was removed as well, the door will be cut to fit the hole of the sliding door gap, and nailed to the opening so it will be seamless with that wall from the outside of the grow room. No sliding mechanism, no gaps.


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## Tact (Nov 9, 2009)

This is quick update showing:

*1)* the intake/exhaust ducting going to be used to cool my light*
2)* the air exchange that will bring in fresh air into the grow room *
3)* the fan/scrubber that will sit in the corner and scrub the air before it ever leaves the room


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## DonJones (Nov 10, 2009)

Tact,

Those are some good looking varieties from what I've heard about them.

On the concealed door, why do you even need a door there if you are going to have another way in and out of your grow room?  I'm just not understanding.  Putting the book/storage shelves across that wall sounds like a good idea by itself, but why the concealed door? Why not just cover it up with the bookcase, unless you just want the concealed door because you think it cool, which is okay too?

On the end wall with the locked door, why not move that wall down ot the end of the narrow area to where the existing wall takes the jog away from the basement wall?  It won't cost anymore to put it there and it will give you more room to work in, to store your growing supplies/equipment or to expand your grow area if you should decide that you want more room.

You are correct that a lock will not even slow down law enforcement if they are searching your house, they will just destroy that much more if they have to break down locked doors.  As my grandfather used to say "All a lock does is keeps the curious and honest man out but it only makes it harder for a thief or a cop to get in."

On your ventilation issue, my suggestion, based on the premise that your light has an air tight lens and your carbon filter only has one exhaust tube and the intake is through a series of holes in the outside wall, would be to put a intake opening near the floor on the water heater end of the room and then let the ventilation system suck air from that opening where it will be coolest and fresh into your room then then enter the carbon filter that you have mounted on a shelf or something so that it's close to the ceiling where the temp is highest, then through the ducting to the open end of your light(s) flow through the light(s) then exhaust the clean heated air where ever you need to exhaust it.  

You could either exhaust it  into the basement when it is cool/cold to help heat your house or through one of the windows when you don't want the heat going into the basement.  That will take care of both your odor and heat problem all at once.  The only drawback is you will have to figure a way to ventilate when the lights are off without it getting too cool in the room, because the carbon filter will only work when the air is moving through it.  If the air isn't going through the filter then it will let the smell out into the basement and if it is too cool near the floor and you aren't adding heat some way, then you could cold stress the plants.

If you don't mind using an A/C to cool the basement, you could just dump the exhaust out of the wall up higher and back into the basement keeping the exhaust up higher than the intake by quite a bit and preferably as far away from the intake as practical.

All you are really worried about is 1. keeping the temps around 70F to 85F, maybe 90F with preferably at the most a 15F swing in a 24 hour period; 2. getting enough fresh air into the room to keep the co2 and o2 levels balanced; and 3. keeping the odor under control.  With a little thought and help from the rest of us, you should be able to figure out a way to do all of those things in one system.

Personally, I don't think you will have that much heat problems.  I'm running 4 each magnetic ballasted MHs in my flower room and only using a 6" round commercial equipment cabinet fan for exhaust and my temps never get over 90F, and that was before I added the intake vent from under the stairway-- now they stay right around 80F and that is without using separate cooling for the lights. I'm running 1600watts of magnetic ballasted lights which is going to put out a whole lot more than your single electronic light.  

Either way, you are going to have a good setup by the time you get done.  Good smoking to you and everyone else.


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## Tact (Nov 10, 2009)

Hey Don,



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> On the concealed door, why do you even need a door there if you are going to have another way in and out of your grow room? I'm just not understanding. Putting the book/storage shelves across that wall sounds like a good idea by itself, but why the concealed door? Why not just cover it up with the bookcase, unless you just want the concealed door because you think it cool, which is okay too?
> 
> On the end wall with the locked door, why not move that wall down ot the end of the narrow area to where the existing wall takes the jog away from the basement wall? It won't cost anymore to put it there and it will give you more room to work in, to store your growing supplies/equipment or to expand your grow area if you should decide that you want more room.



The concealed door was abandoned, its just a door now, a normal door, in a normal studded partition wall. As for not moving it down further, I still can, there is some ducting that blocks that area though, large rectangular ducting, so it would make for an awkward partition if I cut straight across where the wall kicks into the HVAC side of the basement, I can always ask the guy though, shouldn't be a big deal. Though that ducting means the wall on the left side of the partition would only be 5' tall as opposed to 6.5' on the right side of the partition.

As for the intake air 
(for c02, not cooling the hood), its going to come in by way of negative pressure through the floor joists, I will attach a picture. The carbon filter has its own fan dedicated to it (Can 33/Can 449 CFM blower) sitting in the corner, or mounted in the corner so it gives more floor room, that will just recirculate the air over and over in the room itself. Finally a 409 CFM fan will be blowing air out of the room and into the rest of the basement, allowing fresh air to rush in through negative air pressure through the floor joist openings. My basement actually has ducting and vents that have great airflow for heat/cold air from the HVAC, its a partially finished basement, I have always kept those vents closed, but can attach some extra 25' ducting I have and hook it into that line, drop it through the floor joists and into the grow area, this can bring warm air if it gets to cold in the winter, or cold air if it gets to hot in the summer. As often as possible I am going to leave my basement windows open (none of which can see into the grow area) to allow fresh air to roll in and be sucked up through the floor joists passively, due to the negative pressure of blower 2 from my diagram. One last change I made was the blower for the hood venting system will actually be just inside the partitioned room, and past the hood, if I need to get boosters I can , but 630 CFM should be able to haul the air in/out enough to cool the light hood. 

So to clarify there is 3 things going on with the ventilation, the first is a ducting system just to pull in air over the light, then suck it out of the house. The next one is just for c02 air exchange to bring in fresh air, this involves a blower blowing air OUT of the room, passively allowing fresh air to come in through the floor joists. And the third, a constant dedicated blower/filter that will scrub the air continuously in the room itself. I have a speedster fan controller if one element is dominating the other, like air being expelled from the room before being scrubbed. The cubic feet of the area is 182 feet, the blower and filter can scrub 449 CFM per minute, with no ducting being attached, just sitting on the filter directly. So roughly 449 / 182 = *2.5 times the air will be scrubbed in the room per minute*


Pictures:

*1) *This is where the ducting can attach when colder/warmer air needs to be dumped in my room using my homes HVAC (i leave this bastard on 24/7 in the summer).

*2)* This is a shot of the floor joists which lead to the grow room (over that closet wall), note this is the closet from the diagram near the North wall.

*3)* Showing just how large an opening the floor joists actually is, allowing for plenty of fresh air to be negative pressured into the room itself, C02 air exchange.

*4)* A quick update in ventilation and layout system, showing the movement of blower 3 to just inside the grow area.

Electrician comes out Thursday, handyman comes out on the 30th, I have all my supplies, just waiting for the walls to go up, duct to be run, then I will germinate. My light and pH supplies arrived today. :hubba:


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## cmd420 (Nov 10, 2009)

Like Dirty said..welcome .....and you put your post and q's together well dude....

I don't think that you brought it up, but I wouldn't mess with the cO2 thing until later when you get the basics down....

And lastly: quote.."Great idea, I was thinking of filling in the cracks with an epoxy, then painting the walls, and floor of the grow area with that gray paint you see in automotive garages, half the basement is carpet over concrete, no pad. I know there is something you can treat walls with, hand held light of some kind that you can zap mold on walls with, then 'seal' that wall with an anti-mold agent.. i will do some research."

You want to paint the walls with a white paint that will create a more sterile and reflective enviornmet than gray paint...reflect your light to get more from it..

again..welcome!


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## dr pyro (Nov 10, 2009)

i wanted to see the other guy do co2 and you do fresh air


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## DonJones (Nov 11, 2009)

Tact,

You're thinking about what you are doing before you do it and that is the most important thing in getting a good setup from the start.  However, for the size of operation that you are setting up for I think you are needlessly complicating the ventilation systems and going for greatly more than what you will ever need.  You are doing great and all I'm trying to do is to give you enough information to make the best decisions that you can instead of having to guess.

If you are going to use the area between the rafters for fresh air intake, that is gong to be the hottest air of anywhere in the basement. For a grow area the size of yours, one cold air return cover over a 8" high hole between 2 studs in the new wall will provide all the fresh air you will ever need via negative pressure like you are talking about doing through the rafters and it will be cooler air in the summer. If you go to Home Depot, they have crawl space vents like the one in my picture edited to add picture here that have screen in them to cut down on insect movement, which your open rafter thing won't do.  If you  decide to stay with the open rafters at least get some window screen and screen them.  Also, for negative pressure to work properly your exhaust system must move more air out than the intake, what ever it may be, open rafters, leaky doors, vents through the wall or what ever, will let in.  Otherwise you are going to have great inflow in the rafter opening closest to where your exhaust opening is and little inflow in the other rafter openings and very possible outflow through some of them.

On having to put a short door in the new wall, try seeing if you can put a full height one between the ducting and the outside wall, and do NOT make it narrower than 30" if at all possible.  If not I'd just wall it uptight and use the doorway you already have.  Since you don't show water supply or drainage in your plans, I presume you will be carrying it and soil in and out of your grow area and take it from me, you don't want to be bent over or trying to squeeze through a narrow door while you are doing it.

In some ways you are ahead of me and I've been growing as many as 35 plants at a time between my veg & flower rooms for nearly 3 months now.  I just sat down and prioritized the needed construction and tried to do the most critical ones first and do them in a way that they wouldn't interfere with the less critical ones when they came due.  I thought and changed my plans many times for nearly 2 months until my son, who has a lot of remodeling experience, and I started putting the walls in and then we probably made at least a half dozen small changes while we were building it.  Like the fresh air intake and the exhaust fan through my hall door -- that didn't happen until after the outside air cooled down enough that we weren't using the house A/C, and now by recirculating the air from in the basement instead of exhausting it outside, we have cut way down on the use of the furnace.  (I just run the fan constantly to circulate the air between the downstairs and upstairs and in 40F weather entire house stays above 65F.)  I thought it would be wasteful to heat the air some how, run it through the grow room and then blow it outside.  To me that was just like cutting 6" hole in the wall and running the fan constantly.

Also, how are you going to keep the light out of the grow room if for some reason the basement light gets turned on or left on during the dark cycle? Any easy way you have of making those spaces light tight where they cross the top of the existing wall is going to greatly restrict air flow.

The difficulty that I see with using the scrubber in the room instead of ducting it outside of the room and thereby creating a negative pressure and sucking all of the odor laden air through it, is when you just recirculate air in the room, the scrubber will NOT be able to process all of the air and you may have odors leaking out of your room; however using the scrubber to develop your negative pressure will process ALL of the air as it leaves the room.  

If you pull cool fresh air into the room along the floor,then exhaust the hot air from near the ceiling back into the basement through your scrubber, I don't think you will need to worry about cooling your light or the room.

Keep on questioning things until it make sense.  That is how we use the knowledge and experience of the group to avoid repeating other's mistakes.  As we used to say in the 60s (oops I'[m dating myself now) *"Keep the faith baby and good smoking to you!"*


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## Tact (Nov 11, 2009)

DonJones said:
			
		

> If you are going to use the area between the rafters for fresh air intake, that is gong to be the hottest air of anywhere in the basement. For a grow area the size of yours, one cold air return cover over a 8" high hole between 2 studs in the new wall will provide all the fresh air you will ever need via negative pressure like you are talking about doing through the rafters and it will be cooler air in the summer. If you go to Home Depot, they have crawl space vents like the one in my picture here that have screen in them to cut down on insect movement, which your open rafter thing won't do. If you decide to stay with the open rafters at least get some window screen and screen them.



Great point regarding having the passive air intake be LOW, rather then high, due to the fact that hot air rises, therefore a passive intake via floor joists = warmer air. How about this as a solution. In my layout diagram, fan #2 will be mounted HIGH on the partition wall, actively expelling mostly warmer air into the rest of the basement. I will then take either heavy duty plastic and cut it into square shapes, and staple them in between each of the floor joist areas, or heavy duty garbage bags and do the same thing. While this will hardly be air tight, it will allow less air to enter through the floor joists, then I will have a LOW hole on the partition wall(s) for a passive, colder air, intake. I can make two passive intake holes to guarantee a cumulative higher opening of passive air intake compared to any cracks/floor joist areas not sealed with the stapling of plastic material in the floor joists and put those crawl space vents over them you mentioned from Home Depot. I have a screen I can cut into squares and staple to the partition drywall/in between studs, to try and limit particle/insect entry due to airflow (them being blown in). I did however get my whole house/basement sprayed by the bug man, and have not seen in a live insect, save for a few spiders, ever in my house, but who sees/looks for spider mites for example prior to growing?

As for the light, my basement is unused, I can guarantee that no light will be on the basement PERIOD, there is no 'switch' just three pull-chains with bulbs in them, none of which are near the grow room. There is however windows but the light that will come in will not be able to truly get in the grow room, if for some reason a modicum of light does, I will eliminate it, to the point of putting cellophane sticky material over the windows, or simply put towels/blankets over them, they are small windows, and none are close to the grow area, the closest one being by the circuit panel (see diagram, or pictures page 1). Due to the awkward ducting, the easiest approach, is where I have the partition now, it does limit the length of the room to 8 feet, I am fine with that for now, I am only growing for myself though, a few Lbs will go a loooooong way. And finally, a full size door is a must for me, so I can go in and get out easy, luckily by my dryer is a full sized drain, as well as hot/cold water faucets, so not much hauling of water. Finally, I might want to go buy the knob myself, as I take it the handyman (who is getting the studs, door, drywall, nails) will not get a locking door knob for an interior door. I also will e-mail him telling him I need a full-sized door, just to clarify the point. I bought the ducting, which is 6" insulated, to reduce noise of the wh-o-o-o-o-o-sh from the longer ducting, and the intake/exhaust vents, because those are hard to find locally in 6" size, I had to order them online.

So in summation changes to ducting for active air exchange:

*1) *Partially-seal with heavy duty plastic/garbage bags in between the floor joists by stapling, achieving a total air-seal will not be possible short of putting wood/caulking in there or dry walling across the ceiling (like a normal upstairs ceiling), I want to avoid this for two reasons, the first lowers the usable height of the room, and two, radiant heat? So the objective would be to make the floor joist air penetration less cumulative entry space then the passive air intakes.

*2)* Have an active 6" exhaust, being powered by a 409 CFM fan blowing air out of the top of the partition wall, left side of the door. By positioning it high on the partition it will be more warm air, as opposed to cooler air which will be closer to the floor.

*3) *Have two to three 6" passive air intakes, positioned on the left-right of the door (partition wall). Negative pressure will bring in more cool air, due it the hole being closer to the floor rather then the ceiling.

I guess the only question then is:

Is my approach to sealing the floor joists as a passive (warmer air) intake remedied by my plastic/bag partial-sealing approach? Obviously it won't be anymore near air-tight, but if it makes the cumulative area less then the passive intake holes on the partition wall, will it be negated due to physics of negative pressure?

I can take pictures, or draw a diagram if any of this is not clear with my words.

Thoughts?


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## DonJones (Nov 11, 2009)

Tact,

Like I said in my edit of my last post, you're doing great.  Your explanation and thoughts were easy to follow.  Here are my thoughts and hopefully they are as easy to follow as yours were.

 If you keep the ceiling open like it is, paint it white before you start.  It will add a lot to the appearance of your room and also seal any dirt or other things that might be up there now.  I wish I had taken the time to paint mine before we started installing lights and moving plants in but my son was way over his legal limit and needed to get them out of his house because he was told that someone had narced him off.  In fact if I remember correctly they were already in my wife's car so she could claim them if the LEOs showed up (I hadn't obtained my prescription yet at that time because we were having difficulty getting medical records).

On the ceiling issue, sheet rocking it right to the rafters without framing it the other way will only lower your ceiling by 1/2" and would take care of both the light tightness and enable you to control the air flow better.  I'm not sure exactly what you meant by radiant heat, but yes it would cut down on the heat transfer immediately above the grow room but if vented back into the basement the heat would spread throughout the basement somewhat evenly before transferring up through the ceiling/floor into the living area.  What ever you do to the ceiling, paint it white and put plenty of paint on.  I think a gallon should probably cover all of your walls and ceiling.

Either way would work and if you are careful stapling the plastic it would be both air and light tight enough. Make sure you can't see any light through the plastic you use even with your grow light on and close to the plastic.  


Another approach to that and similar situations is to buy some 1/2" or thicker styrofoam insulation board (anything under 1/2" gets fragile enough that it is hard to work with -- I find either an electric carving knive or a jig saw works pretty good if you take your time.  I have even used my circular saw and table saw, but that was because we were working with 4" x 6" logs and cutting them down to fit in the walls of my shop.) at one of the home improvement stores and carefully cut out pieces that are tight enough to wedge into the holes.  That solves all of your issues with the open rafters.

*Everyone --This is also a good way to close off a window into a grow area, just put some kind of curtain between the glass and the foam board so the styrofoam isn't noticeable from outside.  It also cuts down on the sound and heat transfer through the blocked off window and is easy to remove if you decide to use the window in the future.*

On the vents, they have several different sizes and at least 2 colors, brown and white.  They will just barely let you put small nails/screws into the studs.  If you get one of the 6" vents and just cut a rectangular hole slightly less that the height of the vents between two studs, that will give you nearly twice the intake area of a 6" round fan.  If you decide you need more intake area later it is easy enough to add it later.  *It would be better if you could have your intake and exhaust openings  nearly opposite each other rather than on the same wall, if practical.*  If you already have the flexible ducting, then just fasten a short piece of it between the opposite corner of the room from your intake, then run it through the vents on your light and then out the exhaust hole.  Although if you have an exhaust stub on the air scrubber, mount the scrubber as close to the ceiling as practical and hook your exhaust hose to it so that ALL of the exhaust air has been deodorized immediately before being exhausted.  But if you don't have a stub, then just use the scrubber as close to the open end of the exhaust hose as is practical.  If you vent the scrubber through the light and then outside of the room and find that the hose is restricting the airflow too much you can always put a booster fan in over by the partition later.

*Everyone -- at least locally here in Spokane, WA, both 6" and 8" insulated flex ducting is available in the build supply.  If memory serve correctly, it was about $1.00/foot in 25' lengths*

If I have missed any thing just remind me.  My suggestions do NOT mean there is anything wrong with your ideas, just that there might be a more effective and simpler way to handle things, and I freely admit that I'm frequently way off base.

 Are you going to grow in soil (including dirt or the commercial soil substitutes) or go hydro?  IF you are considering hydro, you might want to consider the  various 5 gallon bucket threads in the DIY section.

Good smoking brothers and sisters!


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## DonJones (Nov 11, 2009)

Tact,

Like I said in my edit of my last post, you're doing great.  Your explanation and thoughts were easy to follow.  Here are my thoughts and hopefully they are as easy to follow as yours were.

 If you keep the ceiling open like it is, paint it white before you start.  It will add a lot to the appearance of your room and also seal any dirt or other things that might be up there now.  I wish I had taken the time to paint mine before we started installing lights and moving plants in but my son was way over his legal limit and needed to get them out of his house because he was told that someone had narced him off.  In fact if I remember correctly they were already in my wife's car so she could claim them if the LEOs showed up (I hadn't obtained my prescription yet at that time because we were having difficulty getting medical records).

On the ceiling issue, sheet rocking it right to the rafters without framing it the other way will only lower your ceiling by 1/2" and would take care of both the light tightness and enable you to control the air flow better.  I'm not sure exactly what you meant by radiant heat, but yes it would cut down on the heat transfer immediately above the grow room but if vented back into the basement the heat would spread throughout the basement somewhat evenly before transferring up through the ceiling/floor into the living area.  

What ever you do to the ceiling, paint it white and put plenty of paint on.  I think a gallon should probably cover all of your walls and ceiling.

Either way would work and if you are careful stapling the plastic it would be both air and light tight enough. Make sure you can't see any light through the plastic you use even with your grow light on and close to the plastic.  


Another approach to that and similar situations is to buy some 1/2" or thicker styrofoam insulation board (anything under 1/2" gets fragile enough that it is hard to work with -- I find either an electric carving knive or a jig saw works pretty good if you take your time.  I have even used my circular saw and table saw, but that was because we were working with 4" x 6" logs and cutting them down to fit in the walls of my shop.) at one of the home improvement stores and carefully cut out pieces that are tight enough to wedge into the holes.  If absolute stealth is needed then seal the edges and any seams with the aluminum foil type duct tape -- it is a lot more light resistant than any color of regular duct tape.  That solves all of your issues with the open rafters.

*Everyone --This is also a good way to close off a window into a grow area, just put some kind of curtain between the glass and the foam board so the styrofoam isn't noticeable from outside.  It also cuts down on the sound and heat transfer through the blocked off window and is easy to remove if you decide to use the window in the future.*

On the vents, they have several different sizes and at least 2 colors, brown and white.  They will just barely let you put small nails/screws into the studs.  If you get one of the 6" vents and just cut a rectangular hole slightly less that the height of the vents between two studs, that will give you nearly twice the intake area of a 6" round fan.  If you decide you need more intake area later it is easy enough to add it later.  

*It would be better if you could have your intake and exhaust openings  nearly opposite each other rather than on the same wall, if practical.*  If you already have the flexible ducting, then just fasten a short piece of it between the opposite corner of the room from your intake, then run it through the vents on your light and then out the exhaust hole.  Although if you have an exhaust stub on the air scrubber, mount the scrubber as close to the ceiling as practical and hook your exhaust hose to it so that ALL of the exhaust air has been deodorized immediately before being exhausted.  But if you don't have a stub, then just use the scrubber as close to the open end of the exhaust hose as is practical.  If you vent the scrubber through the light and then outside of the room and find that the hose is restricting the airflow too much you can always put a booster fan in over by the partition later.

*Everyone -- at least locally here in Spokane, WA, both 6" and 8" insulated flex ducting is available in the build supply.  If memory serve correctly, it was about $1.00/foot in 25' lengths*

If I have missed any thing just remind me.  My suggestions do NOT mean there is anything wrong with your ideas, just that there might be a more effective and simpler way to handle things, and I freely admit that I'm frequently way off base.

 Are you going to grow in soil (including dirt or the commercial soil substitutes) or go hydro?  IF you are considering hydro, you might want to consider the  various 5 gallon bucket threads in the DIY section.  DWC and waterfarm are very easy and inexpensive if you do it your self.

Good smoking brothers and sisters!


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## Tact (Nov 11, 2009)

I picked up the insulated ducting already actually, the price was $26 for 25' feet, so about $1 a foot. Far cheaper then hydro stores online which charge $2+ per foot. As far as sheetrock going up on the ceiling, I will look into this, it would help seal the room in a bit more. The styrofoam idea if I do not go with sheet rock is a good idea, lightweight and tool less (save for cutting) installation. 

This is a soil grow, I have FFOF and FFLW, already have my nutes, pH solutions and meter, and just got back from home depot getting more basic supplies like a tub to mix the dirt in, another for storing the nutes in, and having a tub to pour excess water runoff from water (from the saucers the pots will sit on) and then I will dump that dedicated runoff water tub down a drain near my washer/dryer. I have about all the pieces to the puzzle, 7am, tomorrow the electricians are coming over, then on the 30th the handyman will be here. Then I can put the puzzle together, this though gives me 19 days, or nearly 3 weeks to fine tune aspects of my grow area plans. Radically altering the handyman job might result in a new contract being drawn up is my only grievance with too much change, as it was already printed up and signed and the checks cut. I own three tools, a tape measure, a hammer, an electric drill. Dirtyolsouth showed me a nifty drill bit that can cut circular holes in drywall, so I can cut more holes in needed in the partition, or where needed in the future with that.

Edit: BTW regarding the carbon filter, I got a Can combo filter/fan. They fit into each other seamlessly and the plan was to let it sit in the corner (or mount it high in the corner) and let it scrub and dump the air back into the grow room, not duct out anywhere. It is a 449 CFM blower, while the active exhaust (not for the hood to keep the lamp cool) is a 409 CFM blower. I have a speedster fan controller and can lower the fan speed of the active exhaust if it is letting stinky air escape prior to the scrubber getting at it. I also added a picture of the partition wall, and where I asked the handyman to make some cuts. The the top left 6" hole is the active exhaust hole (near the top), it will connect to a 6" flange that is a 4"x12" square duct on the other side, I bought the appropriate vent cover for the hole. The 10"x10" hole on the bottom right will be the passive air intake, I bought a vent cover for that as well. The 6" hole at the top right is what will run the duct work out of my house, dumping the hot air coming off the light. I have large piece of screen that I can cut the appropriate size and staple gun the screen to the studs/drywall. I also mentioned to him to let me know the prospects of getting sheetrock nailed to the ceiling. The electrician came this morning, all went well.


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## DonJones (Nov 12, 2009)

Tact,

I'm still a little confused.  I'm not familiar with the filter you are using.  Will it let you exhaust through a duct?

The upper left active exhaust vent goes into a 4"x 12" square duct.  Then where does that duct go to and what is it exhausting for , air circulation or heat? 

Is the partition going to be sheet rocked on both sides or only one?  

Personally I only did one side for 2 reasons:  First one side was all I needed except for appearance purposes and very few people will ever be inside of the grow room to see the exposed studs, and second I getting old enough that I have to look at making the house salable some day and having fully framed walls dividing what could be a 10' x 12' bedroom into a 6' x12' room and a4' x12' room would be kind of hard to sell with unless I find someone who wants to have 2 indoor grow rooms.

That nifty drill bit that can cut circular holes in drywall, is it for one of those mini high speed router type things or does it go into your regular drill?

Either way be careful using it because if it is less than 1/8" thick at the thinnest point, it will break real easily if you put very much side pressure on it trying to cut too fast.  I've tried them in the little high speed mini router and I have tendency to feed them too fast and break the bits.  You need to be ready for a lot of airborne dust using any kind of power tools around sheet rock.  Even using a hand saw causes a mess cutting sheet rock. 

Do you realize that it really isn't all that much harder to cut a hole through the outer rafter joist, in your case the wall behind your water and water heater, than it is to cut one through the rim board at the end of the rafters, your case the back wall where you currently plan on venting the lights?

Hang in there.  You're making great progress!  Good smoking.


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## Tact (Nov 12, 2009)

Hey Don,



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> Tact,
> 
> I'm still a little confused.  I'm not familiar with the filter you are using.  Will it let you exhaust through a duct?


 
Here is a link to the fan/filter combo, though this is not where I bought it:

http://www.planetnatural.com/cgi-bin/planetnatural/can-combo-33

The fan is 449 CFM, and the filter is rated for more cubic feet then the cubic feet of my grow area. Due to both products being Can brand they fit into each other without an additional flange. The plan is to let it sit in the corner of the room, in the back, or mount it up high on the ceiling. There is only one access point into the carbon filter, and that is where the blowing side of the fan will rest. Constantly sucking up air in the room, and pushing it through the filter. The fan dedicated to this job is rated at a higher CFM then the fan dedicated for an active exhaust. Also a Speedster fan controller was purchased to have the ability to lower the fan speed of the 409 CFM dedicated exhaust blower if stinky air is getting pushed out of the room before it can be scrubbed. Again, there is no way for ducting to be run out of the back of the scrubber unless I cut it open somehow (not sure you should do that?). I already have all three fans.




			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> The upper left active exhaust vent goes into a 4"x 12" square duct. Then where does that duct go to and what is it exhausting for , air circulation or heat?



A 409 CFM Sunleaves blower is going to be hooked up to a foot of ducting and blowing warmer air (notice the 6" hole in the top left of the partition door, left of the door) out into the rest of the basement. If this raises the ambient temperature of my basement/house, I will take the ducting out of my house by dumping it by a window. I do not anticipate this being the case, but if it is the case, I am ready for it with the solution. The cooling of the light should be exceptional with cool air rushing over the light, then being dispelled out of the room, then house by way of the light cooling system.



			
				DonJones said:
			
		

> Is the partition going to be sheet rocked on both sides or only one?



Yes only one side will be sheet-rocked, I don't care about the aesthetic interior. Also I setup with the handyman to have the ceiling sheetrocked as well, this should help with control over airflow/lighting. He will also cut the three holes in the diagram I made. I was advised by a couple of peopel not to cut holes through the floor joist if I can avoid it, something about their thickness and its importance in structural integrity (this house is almost 100 years old). Having sheet-rock going up on the ceiling should resolve several of the issues you brought up. I am going to take some 'dry-run' tests, to analyze the temperature, daytime/nighttime, the light leak, and the changes in RH. If termperture is still too warm there are some options I have with runnign ducting through a vent in my basement that is an active A/C fed cooling vent with ducting and dump it into the room form the above the floor joists (I can make a small hole in the sheet-rock ceiling if this is needed). This would be bringing in warm/cool air depending on the season as it would be the same air the rest of my house is getting from my HVAC.


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## sopappy (Feb 28, 2015)

Tact said:


> snipped lots of great stuff for clarity...
> 
> *1)* Either way, I am scared of heat, I am paranoid of a fire,[/QUOTE
> 
> ...


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