# The Death of my Hydroponic Experiment...



## metalchick832 (May 30, 2007)

I am saddened tonight to report the total failure of my homemade hydro system.  The basic set up I used is this:

http://www.wynia.org/wordpress/2006/08/29/setting-up-a-hydroponic-herb-garden/

Imagine that with a fish tank instead of a Rubbermaid box.  Mold began to grow on the rocks around the stem and also when I pulled one up to transplant it was moldy on the root as well.  What did I do wrong?  

Also, I'm a little confused as to whether the bottom of the grow container or pot should be submerged in the water at all times... Some said yes, and some said no, so I tried both and they both died.  

Help me please!!!!  There is nothing in this whole world that I want more right now than just some good homegrown bud... and I can't seem to acchieve that dream!  Help me Obi Wan... You're my only hope.   

~Metalchick


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## TheDrowner (May 30, 2007)

Did you seal it off so it was light proof?

If you didn't you probably had algae growth from the light.

I have no experience with hydro but have heard of the above statement and read it.

Peace TD


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## Growdude (May 30, 2007)

Only the roots hang down into the nute solution, pot should be a few inches above the water.
No light should "touch" the water.
Must use airstones in a DWC setup.


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## Object505 (May 30, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear that your first hydro experiment did'nt go well. Belive me I know how it feels to have an experiment fail like this. Have you considerd converting your hydro basin to a drip type system. This can be easliy done with a pump (found at home deopot) and some drip tubbing (also at home depot) HAve fun with it and good luck.


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## Grownothing (May 30, 2007)

You want the pot to be a few inches above the water level, and in a DWC you want alot of oxygen, which means air stones bad.
Like 3 6inch airstones powered by a not bad pump will definately do the job.


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## metalchick832 (May 31, 2007)

That's the kind of airstones I have Grownothing... also, I have a rather powerful bubblewand running along the back of the aquarium as well, just for some extra "umph".  I do have valves on it though, and I read a little while ago that using valves inhibits your airflow or some such thing.  Is that true?  I wonder if I should take the valves off and just use multiple pumps?  I have at least 20, 40+ gallon pumps lying around, so it's not like I would have to buy anything.

~Metalchick


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## RatherBBurnin (May 31, 2007)

Ditch the aquarium and go get a rubbermaid container.. its going to be more of a problem then anything.... the roots need complete darkness... and the rubbermaids are like $15 at the most.. This will prevent what happened last time..


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 1, 2007)

You need to keep your res water temps below 70F degrees! I use frozen bottles of water...gallon or half gallon milk jugs or 2 liter plastic coke bottles, whatever you want to use or have around the house that you can fill with water and put a cap on it, then freeze it...Put the entire frozen bottle in you res. Just do what you have to do to keep your res water nice and cool...I try to keep mine at 65f but at least keep it under 70f.


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 1, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> You need to keep your res water temps below 70F degrees! I use frozen bottles of water...gallon or half gallon milk jugs or 2 liter plastic coke bottles, whatever you want to use or have around the house that you can fill with water and put a cap on it, then freeze it...Put the entire frozen bottle in you res. Just do what you have to do to keep your res water nice and cool...I try to keep mine at 65f but at least keep it under 70f.


The best temp for the root zone is 72 degrees F.

Where did you get your information from Viracocha? If the root temps are below 60, the plant will actually stop growing.

If you do a google on "Ed Rosenthal rootzone temp" you'll find an article explaining what I've said.

If your information is from a reliable source, I'd like to read it please.

Thanks.


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 1, 2007)

metalchick, I'd suggest that you move up to an ebb and flow hydro system. Lots less to worry with and you'll have great growth. If you decide to do this, I'd be glad to help you get it set up.

Good luck!


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 1, 2007)

OK, I did not say to below 60f, I said below 70F...However, I do know that nute sol holds more oxygen at lower temps and temps below 70f will help control humidity thus helping to prevent mold within the res.

The best temps for a nute uptake is 60-75f, however, temps above 75temps invite mold and above 85f and there will be little oxygen in the nute sol for the plant to use and the roots are easily damaged or prone to rot and fungus...And below 50f the plant will stop growing...So, I try and maintain 65f with my frozen bottles of water, and I have had no problems yet as far as mold or root rot. My plants are growing faster than I want them to grow, if that is possible?

Stoney Bud, I know you know what your doing and talking about. You have helped me more than anyone else has, but I just wanted to clarify what I actually wrote and provide the info I thought to be correct...As I am just going off all the reading I have been doing and the little experience I have had with my hydro herb garden...Do you need any Basil, Cilantro or Sage? I have plenty...

As far as references go, lets see, p.187 of Gardening Indoors by George Van Patten; p.319 of the Marijuana Horticulture The indoor/outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes

I fully agree with Stoney on the Ebb & Flow...Use his plans in the DIY...Look for StoneyBud's 4 unit hydro system or something close to that! It is easy to build and has a proven track record!!!!!


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 1, 2007)

Hydroponics for the Home Gardener by Stewart Kenyon with foreword by Howard M. Resh, PH.D; 

Hydroponic Tomatoes for the Home Gardener by Howard M. Resh PH.D


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## metalchick832 (Jun 2, 2007)

Stoney, a how to would be wonderful.  I have been looking at some of the pics on how to do them, but I can't seem to figure it out step by step.

Thanks,
Metalchick


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 2, 2007)

MetalChick,
 Hey, I am not StoneyBud of course but I did stay at a...

...He-He! Kiddin aside, I just built Stoney Bud's 4 unit hydro system, it is easy to build and does not cost near as much as the commercial ones...Here is a link to the DIY:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6674

More info on the DIY 4 unit hydro system:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3908

For more pics and proof that the system works very well, try this link:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7166
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10181

...I hope this helps, sorry about your troubles...


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 2, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> OK, I did not say to below 60f, I said below 70F...However, I do know that nute sol holds more oxygen at lower temps and temps below 70f will help control humidity thus helping to prevent mold within the res.
> 
> The best temps for a nute uptake is 60-75f, however, temps above 75temps invite mold and above 85f and there will be little oxygen in the nute sol for the plant to use and the roots are easily damaged or prone to rot and fungus...And below 50f the plant will stop growing...So, I try and maintain 65f with my frozen bottles of water, and I have had no problems yet as far as mold or root rot. My plants are growing faster than I want them to grow, if that is possible?
> 
> As far as references go, lets see, p.187 of Gardening Indoors by George Van Patten; p.319 of the Marijuana Horticulture The indoor/outdoor Medical Grower's Bible by Jorge Cervantes


 
Well, here we have a difference of references and actual experience. You've found a very valid reference and have actual experience doing what you've read. That's the perfect argument. No kidding.

In the 25+ years I've been growing with Hydroponics, I've used every method *except* DWC and used Ed Rosenthal's experience and advice to stay at 72 degrees and had equal results with never having any mold and have had fast growth.

"Low temperatures, however, slow down the rate of plant metabolism. Cold floors can lower the temperature in containers, thereby lowering root temperature and slowing germination and plant growth. Ideally, the medium temperature should be 70 degrees.

When watering, tepid water should be used. Cultivators using systems that recirculate water can heat the water with a fish tank heater and thermostat. If the air is cool, 45-60 degrees, the water can be heated to 90 degrees. If the air is warm, over 60 degrees, a 70 degree water temperature is sufficient."
http://www.quicktrading.com/tips16.html

I've never used his method of heating the water above 75F, but I can guarantee you that he has done it successfully, or he wouldn't have allowed it to be printed.

In another source, he suggests 72F.

Root Zone Temperature (RZT) is self-explanatory - it is the temperature in the area of the roots. Marijuana thrives when its roots are kept at room temperature, about 72 degrees. When the air temperature remains at 72 degrees and the root zone is cool, which often happens when containers are placed on a cold floor, the roots do not work as efficiently as they do at a higher temperature.
http://cannabisculture.com/articles/2565.html

Of course, there are other observations that come into the discussion:

"High root zone temperatures often plague indoor growers running water culture (aero/bubbler/dwc/hydro) systems. These systems are subject to rapid heating by intense HID lighting, which increases root zone temperatures, which decreases dissolved oxygen (DO) levels. Rapid plant growth, combined with low DO levels, can cause oxygen deprivation which in turn can result in infection by opportunistic pathogens such as pythium. 

The key to maximum growth is to keep the air temperature at 75-80F, but the root zone at 68F or less. Note: the reservoir should be kept slightly cooler than the rootzone - irrigation and system heating will warm the water by the time it reaches the roots. 

Optimum root growth occurs at 70-75F; however, destructive root diseases also grow and reproduce rapidly at these root temperatures. Maintaining nutrient temperatures at or under 68F maximizes root growth and DO, and inhibits pythium."
http://marijuana-ro.com/cms/index.php?page=how-can-i-keep-my-reservoir-cool

In my entire experience of 25+ years in hydroponics, I've never had any problem with keeping a reservoir temp of 75F. I'm certainly not saying it couldn't happen, and the increased oxygen in a DWC system would be extremely beneficial. In an ebb and flow system, oxygen isn't a concern. The actions involved with the recirculation processes of an ebb and flow system eliminate any possibility of that occurring.

DWC has become a very popular system to use and is highly dependant on oxygen content in the rootzone/reservoir. Saying this, in conclusion, I have to agree that keeping the reservoir/rootzone temps in a DWC system between 65-68 degrees F would be the best idea.

In the other forms of hydro, I would continue to disagree and would suggest using 72-75 F rootzone temps and using one of the many treatments that are safe to use on MJ reservoirs to eliminate the possibility of Pythium contamination as well as many others. An example of this type of treatment is "Rebound":

*"Rebound* kills *Pythium* and other pathogens in your hydroponic system. When symptoms occur, add 1 mL of *Rebound* per litre of water in your reservoir, and continue weekly until the symptoms clear up."
http://www.rootrotrebound.com.au/root_rot_treatment.php

As with all science, there are always differences of opinion and conflicting reports of experimentation results.

Thanks for bringing this topic up, Viracocha711. I hope you find the included comments in my rebuttal interesting.

Good luck to you, as always,

Stoney.


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 2, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> MetalChick, Hey, I am not StoneyBud of course but I did stay at a...


 
HAHAAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

Viracocha711, you gave me one of the best laughs I've had in some time with this remark....I love that commercial!


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 2, 2007)

Yes, I love to hear everything you say...Especially when you go into detail on a topic...All I am at this point in my hydro hobby career is a sponge looking to soak up knowledge! I feel bad because I have yet to read any of Ed Rosenthal's books...And I know how important he has been to medical marijuana movement and more so to the education of those who grow the divine herb. I think I will hit Amazon today and order 1-2 or of them, ANY SUGGESTIONS?

...As far as my set up and what I have observed in my short experience, this is some avg's from my notes...I think this will sound a little better, I keep my res temps at 65F-70F; my root zone at 70F-75F; and my air temps at 68F-73F at night and 74F-80F during the day...However, some days I have had air temps at 83F-84F...And so far no mold or any other problems related to diseases.

However, should a mold problem arise, is it safe to spray a mild peroxide solution on the mold itself, whether it be on the plant or on the growing medium or inside the res? Or is there a better way if mold appears?

Thank you very much Stoney Bud for your help! I really hope I will be able to harvest 1/2 what you do using your set up...As soon as I get a new digital camera I will show you what my version of your system looks like, OK?

One difference is that I will be using a Hortilux EYE 600 watt super HPS w/ 25% blue spectrum...Compared to your 2 430 watt HPS! So, I know i will not have the lumen's you do but I should still be able to have a nice grow, don't ya think? 

I decided to invest in a digital ballast per your advice(I love it, it is silent no noise!) and I also have a an air cooled reflector that will actually pull the hot air from the bulb via duct and a vortex fan and carry it completely out of the room...

Anyway, I love to hear your opinions, criticism, and any advice you have, please! And thanks!


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 2, 2007)

Stoney Bud, 

Yes or No?

Marijuana Grower's Handbook
by Ed Rosenthal

...I like the fact it comes in a spiral bound edition!!


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 2, 2007)

Marijuana Success Indoors
Garden Tours and Tips
by Ed Rosenthal

HHMmm...How about this one?

I may buy both of these...I am also looking for a book dedicated to cooking with cannabis and alternative methods of use besides smoking....Any suggestions?

YIKES, If this thread has evolved in such a way you see fit to move it, then please do, sorry.


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 2, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> Stoney Bud,
> 
> Yes or No?
> 
> ...


 
Oh yeah, that's a good one...hehe look below.


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 2, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> Marijuana Success Indoors
> Garden Tours and Tips
> by Ed Rosenthal
> 
> ...


 
Yes, that's a great one too.


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## metalchick832 (Jun 2, 2007)

Okay Stoney, how 'bout that step by step ebb and flow system?

Thanks,
Metalchick


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 3, 2007)

metalchick832 said:
			
		

> Okay Stoney, how 'bout that step by step ebb and flow system?
> 
> Thanks,
> Metalchick


 
I've put one in the DIY area and if you look at the top of the 1st and 2nd post in that thread, you'll find this link to all the questions and answers to the thread:


HOW TO THREAD
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6674&highlight=4-Unit


QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3908

Quite a few people here have this system up and running. You'll love this setup. Just post any questions you have in the Q&A area.

Good luck to you!


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 3, 2007)

Stoney Bud said:
			
		

> Oh yeah, that's a good one...hehe look below.


 
...Is that pic actually your book?

I love spiral bindings, especially on books that are to be used as quick references.:aok: 

BTW-I bought it!


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 3, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> ...Is that pic actually your book?
> 
> I love spiral bindings, especially on books that are to be used as quick references.:aok:
> 
> BTW-I bought it!


 
Good for you! It's a great reference book. Yes, that is the one I have sitting next to me when I'm posting on the group. I always double check the answers I give in several places before I post them. I wouldn't want to send someone down the wrong path because my memory isn't real hot these days.


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 4, 2007)

Good deal! I can't wait to get it!


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## MergeLeft (Jun 6, 2007)

Interesting to see someone else uses the frozen bottle trick- I've used it in aquariums to keep the fish from cooking. 

I on my first hydro grow, DWC, and now I'm wondering what will happen if I'm growing during hot weather. How do you monitor the temp, and at what point should I get worried & try to cool things down?

Great thread, prevented a problem that surely would have hit in July.


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 6, 2007)

MergeLeft said:
			
		

> I on my first hydro grow, DWC, and now I'm wondering what will happen if I'm growing during hot weather. How do you monitor the temp, and at what point should I get worried & try to cool things down?
> 
> Great thread, prevented a problem that surely would have hit in July.


 
An instant read thermometer is the best to use.

There are two distinct temperature areas.

1. Above the ground or that part of the plant that is in the air all the time.
2. The temperature in the root zone or media or the temperature in your reservoir or where the roots are below the ground or media.

The above ground temps should not ever go over 90. 75-80 is best.

The root zone should be at 72 degrees for perfect growth and you can use a treatment such as "Rebound" to avoid Pythium contamination or other problems.


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 7, 2007)

MergeLeft said:
			
		

> Interesting to see someone else uses the frozen bottle trick- I've used it in aquariums to keep the fish from cooking.
> 
> I on my first hydro grow, DWC, and now I'm wondering what will happen if I'm growing during hot weather. How do you monitor the temp, and at what point should I get worried & try to cool things down?
> 
> Great thread, prevented a problem that surely would have hit in July.


 
Yes, I have actually found the correct size bottle to use in my res to keep the res temps right where I want them...In other words I have tried many dif size bottles until I found the one that will keep my res in the correct temp range. I use a 2 liter coke bottle frozen solid and I only have to change it out each AM when I get my coffee.


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## Stoney Bud (Jun 7, 2007)

Viracocha711 said:
			
		

> Yes, I have actually found the correct size bottle to use in my res to keep the res temps right where I want them...In other words I have tried many dif size bottles until I found the one that will keep my res in the correct temp range. I use a 2 liter coke bottle frozen solid and I only have to change it out each AM when I get my coffee.


 
That's very *cool*hehe, Viracocha.

Mine sits out in an airconditioned room, so I don't have that worry, but that's a real good trick to know.


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## Viracocha711 (Jun 8, 2007)

LOL! Thanks, yeah, many mornings drinking coffee and freezin bottles, my wife thinks I have lost my mind! That res sits below several south-southeast windows so it gets sun all day.  I also found that covering your res with black plastic to keep the sun out will also act as a water heater! I changed that mistake right away! 

...Things will change once I get my first Cannabis Hydro (Stoney Bud's 4 unit Ebb & Flow) system up and running. That res will be on a concrete floor, if needed, and on foamboard when needed...And in an AC/Heat controlled room without windows and insulated on all 4 sides & the ceiling. So, I will have several options to play with to keep the res temps where they should be.


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