# HID or Flourescent?



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

_*Hello all,

I was reading a article in High Times about growing with Flourecent lights and doing you whole grow with them, advantages (heat) and disadvantages (smaller buds). I got screwed on a 1000w HF setup (it was only a 400w, the peeps did not know what they had), I was going to order a new 600w (this will better suit my needs) systeem today but, I read this article and it piqued my interest so, I figured I would post the question.. 

What is your opinion ? I have a 20 sq. ft. grow tent AND I will also have to deal with heat (I already have the heat issue figured out, if I get the HID) *_


----------



## Melissa (Aug 18, 2008)

*go for the hid ,,better results everytime :48:*


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

HID all the way. It's tons easier than setting up multiple flouros in your grow room, and the energy bill isn't that much more expensive.
  I know you said you had the heat thing figured out, but with proper ventilation you shouldn't any problems with heat...
  good luck, and hope I've helped.

 p.s. I don't know your budget, but I would suggest you having 2-400w lights for your space. Use your 400 w you already have, and buy another if you think it's suitable.


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

choking_victim said:
			
		

> HID all the way. It's tons easier than setting up multiple flouros in your grow room, and the energy bill isn't that much more expensive.
> I know you said you had the heat thing figured out, but with proper ventilation you shouldn't any problems with heat...
> good luck, and hope I've helped.
> 
> p.s. I don't know your budget, but I would suggest you having 2-400w lights for your space. Use your 400 w you already have, and buy another if you think it's suitable.



_*yes I was thinking that 2 400 would work BUT I do not have the room...*_


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

hmmm... don't have the room...? I don't know. How don't you have room if you don't mind me asking?


----------



## PUFF MONKEY (Aug 18, 2008)

look at this light system...and check out the price !!!!


http://www.hydrowholesale.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=hydro&Product_Code=ELS100AC&Category_Code=ELS


----------



## Growdude (Aug 18, 2008)

choking_victim said:
			
		

> hmmm... don't have the room...? I don't know. How don't you have room if you don't mind me asking?


 
You have 25 sq/ft. how can you not have room.
so you need 1000 watts to get the recomended 5000 lumens per sq/ft.


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

with 1000 watt lights, you have to hang the light further away from the plants than you would a 400w, losing lumens in between.
 Using 2-400w, you could have the lights more spread and more on top of the plants, creating just as many lumens for 800w than you could get for 1-1000w and cover more 'direct light' space in the process. If you don't have the room, that's understandable, but I would have to make room, IMO.

 hope this has helped _someone_.


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

choking_victim said:
			
		

> hmmm... don't have the room...? I don't know. How don't you have room if you don't mind me asking?


_*
My issue is that I also need to run a air cooled reflector and I simply would not have the room for all the air ducting that I need to run and cool the light, also being able to move the lights up and down would be a hassle... Also, I already sent the supposive 1000w light back to the seller.....*_


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

*This is what I am looking at W/the  "air cooled 6" reflector and bulb upgrades*

htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=48969

*I can't post links until I post 15 times so you will have to put the www in....*


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

You would only have to have an in-duct, and out-duct, 
- but I can agree that inline ducting reduces more heat, faster, and is the same method I choose.
  Growing sativa indoors I only had to move the lights once a week.
 - I do also agree, it is easier with one light further away.

 .....Sorry I couldn't help.
  I just like all the pain-staking time it takes for me to make it how I want it.


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

nice, that would work well.

 a single 600w air cooled mh-hps is what I'm working with now as well.
 I plan on getting another 400w mh-hps so I could have two rooms. 
Or using it for a bigger crop, using the 600 to veg, and using both to flower.


 p.s. I would surely get their extended 4 year warranty on the ballast. I've had ballasts go out on me in the middle of flower...it is no good.


----------



## Growdude (Aug 18, 2008)

choking_victim said:
			
		

> with 1000 watt lights, you have to hang the light further away from the plants than you would a 400w, losing lumens in between.
> Using 2-400w, you could have the lights more spread and more on top of the plants, creating just as many lumens for 800w than you could get for 1-1000w and cover more 'direct light' space in the process. If you don't have the room, that's understandable, but I would have to make room, IMO.
> 
> hope this has helped _someone_.


 
I just dont agree, you make it sound like 2 400's are better because they can be closer, then with that logic CFL's must be better yet because they can be even closer.

What he needs is 5000 per sq/ft and thats going to take a 1000 watt hps, thats 155,000 lumens

Now if his room is rectangle then I like the idea of 2 fixtures vs 1 but if its square the I like the single 1000 watts because the amount of lumens far out weighs any small light differance to the plants.

I also believe light intesity is directly proportional to potency and IMO why outdoor MJ is better. now thats just my opinion.


Do you know or have a chart that shows how many lumens get lost, say per foot or somthing? would be interesting.


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

choking_victim said:
			
		

> You would only have to have an in-duct, and out-duct,
> - but I can agree that inline ducting reduces more heat, faster, and is the same method I choose.
> Growing sativa indoors I only had to move the lights once a week.
> - I do also agree, it is easier with one light further away.
> ...



_*I would like to run 2 400w but heat is a real big issue for me, I live in N.Ca and it hovers around 100 degrees (now) so I need to think ahead. I have a little portable ac / heater unit that keeps the room at around 80 degrees and already have the ducting for the light all figured out, my grow tent already has the input/output holes in it.. I will take pics when I have it complete...*_


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

I had looked at a chart previously at a local hydro store, I just recalled doing the math at the store and realized 2-400 were just as effective, but I don't have standing proof.
  If anyone can find a chart, that would be very helpful. I'm on the look out now.

  floros don't penetrate as well.


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

hahaha, lets just say a 1-1000w on a light mover is more efficient than all the above.


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

I found this....

 "The brightness of the light goes up as you get closer to the bulb, or fades as you get further away.

A given amount of light fades by the square of the distance from the source. Just like the surface area of a sphere (area = 4*pi*R^2), if you double the distance, the brightness goes down by 2x2, to be 4 times dimmer.
If you triple the distance, the brightness goes down by 3x3, to be 9 times dimmer."

 this doesn't necessarily answer our question straight up, but it does give an equation.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 this is even easier..


The formula is quite simple and may help you understand. I=L/D2

I=Intensity
L=Light output
D2=Distance squared

So using the handy fluorescent rule of thumb, we are going to calculate how many lumens the plants will get two feet from the light.

75W x 85L = 6800 Lumens. (I have more lumens than this but we will use this as an example.)

I=L/D2
1700 Lumens = 6800L / (2&#8217;x2)
1700 lumens at two feet away will be the &#8220;Intensity&#8221;.


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

*Thanks everyone!
One last question.... should I top my plants? I have a Durban Poison, a couple Blue Cheese"Big Buddah"  a few Mangos and finally a couple THC Bombs, they are all about 1 1/2 mo. old.. I know this is not the place to post this but I figured what the heck....*


----------



## akirahz (Aug 18, 2008)

you could top, fim, lst, or even super crop them, its personal preference really


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

akirahz said:
			
		

> you could top, fim, lst, or even super crop them, its personal preference really



_*I guess a better question would be "how do I top"? or is there a thread I can read?:48:*_


----------



## choking_victim (Aug 18, 2008)

two different ways I've learned.

 1. cut the main stem off the top, leaving the two branches below to become the tops. (leaving you with 2 main tops)
 2. barely cut the top, just enough for it to slow the growth to the main growth; letting the side branches catch up by the time it heals.
 leaving you with possibly 3 tops instead of the standard one.

  it's a way to get branchier plants.

 LST (low stress training) will get you small bushier plants
 and SCROG (screen of green) will as well


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

*I will post some pics so I can get a better idea...*


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

*One last thing I should mention..... they are all going into 10 ga. containers today...*


----------



## That crazy vancouver guy (Aug 18, 2008)

hmmm... I'm not all excited about that plant you are showing there, bud...

looks sneakingly suspicious to be a male you have there....


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

*Here are some better pics, I pointed to where I think to cut... sorry for the dumb questions but, I do not want to make a wrong cut...*


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

*This is a "THC Bomb"*


----------



## Growdude (Aug 18, 2008)

I never top so low just pinch off the very top most new growth.

A little late for topping IMO. LST might do better.

Your baby needs light!


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

That crazy vancouver guy said:
			
		

> hmmm... I'm not all excited about that plant you are showing there, bud...
> 
> looks sneakingly suspicious to be a male you have there....



_*I was thinking that but... I am not seasoned at this yet ... That was my one and last DP that some one gave me and told me it was "feminized" ... I know the "Blue Cheese" is, as I ordered those myself...*_


----------



## yumyumbubblegum (Aug 18, 2008)

Growdude said:
			
		

> I never top so low just pinch off the very top most new growth.
> 
> A little late for topping IMO. LST might do better.
> 
> Your baby needs light!



_*YES! I know That is why I got mad when the light I got was wrongly advertised! I had a 1000 watt bulb and was ready to go (1 week ago) Just to find I was sent the wrong ballast...  I should have my new light here by Weds. 

Right now I have them under (6) 4ft sunlight floro's (as close as I can get 'em....)

Oh well ... now I will have everything I need next time, and I have a extra surplus of beans....*_


----------

