# choosing fluorescent or CFL for cloning / seedlings /moms room



## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

*hi folks
i am going to buy 3' X 3'  tent for keeping  7-8 moms under vegging all the time and making my clones and vegging my seedlings
(i have 5' X 5' sqft flowering room already )

i will buy 250 or 400 **watt  MH lamp some day,but now i should buy **Fluorescent (or CFL,i dont know  ) for the vegging moms and clones.
i know only thing that i should buy 6500k**Fluorescent.
that is all..


but i dont know how many  **Fluorescents and how many watts should i buy for keeping 7-8 moms at vegging stage all the time and rooting and growing my new clones..
the brand is important ?

in addition,should i buy T5 or T8 and which is better  ?i dont know anything about  **Fluorescents..

In addition,can i buy CFLs instead of fluorescent lamps ?CFLs are very very cheaper than T5/T8 fluorescent lamps ..

what is your opinions ?*
*
i will keep my seedling under these **Fluorescents for first 10-15 days untill they would be rooted and after 10-15 days,they will go under 600 watt hps to keep on vegging..

i need your helps,thanks 
*


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## noneedforalarm (Feb 6, 2009)

i think the money your going to spend on all those fluoros(which cfls are the same thing CFL-compact fluorescent light)you would be better off buying a 600 watt MH(if possible).i also know that if your going to purchase any fluoros you need to purchase a 200 watt CFL which youll have to order online.that being the case just order a MH online off ebay for cheap.im sure you can find one no problem.im sure someone else will chime in with some more information.but read on this for now and others opinons until you get what you need.also welcome to the site.


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## noneedforalarm (Feb 6, 2009)

i just looked on ebay not extensively but enough to find a 1000 watt MH brand new for 200 bucks.now that would be well worth the money....you can also try craigslist for some items to
the link to the light,just replace the xx with tt of course.

hxxp://cgi.ebay.com/MONSTER-1000-w-Watt-METAL-HALIDE-MH-GROW-LIGHT-W-HOOD_W0QQitemZ220352711099QQcmdZViewItemQQptZHydroponics_Seed_Starting?hash=item220352711099&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1205%7C66%3A2%7C65%3A12%7C39%3A1%7C240%3A1318%7C301%3A0%7C293%3A1%7C294%3A50

i dont know why its so long = / but whatever


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

but i read '' the powerful lamp is not good for rooting clones and new seedlings .the best lamp is flouro for them ''

therefore,
even if  i have got a mh ,i will also have to buy  flouro or CFL for young plants.
if i havent got Mh,i will  have to buy  flouro or CFL for young plants.

as the result,flouro  or CFL must be bought for rooting clones and seedlings to get the best result.


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## Growdude (Feb 6, 2009)

7-8 moms? I can easy get 25 + clones from 1 nice mom plant.


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

lol: i am newbie man..
but you are right..i dont have to keep 8 moms..

but there is not very things that would change..

i will still need to keep about 4-5 moms from different strains..


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## WeedHopper (Feb 6, 2009)

You need a minimum of 3000 lumens psf while vegging and such,,5000 is what most shoot for,,, and most shoot for even more lumens,, the more Lumens,,,the better yeild is what most will tell ya.Course ya need the right spectrum. 
You have 9sf x 3000 minimum= 27,000 lumens, Thats like 10 42 watt cfl's @ 2700 lumens per @ 2700K. THey have them at Lowes. HIDS are the best,,but Floras(T5's) and CFL's will work. I know,,I have some in Flower right now under Floras and CFL's. Nothing special,,but its mine and it smokes real good. :hubba: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=408130&postcount=1


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 6, 2009)

A T5 is more money because it is a high output fluoro.  A 54W 4' T5 puts out 5000 lumens or 92.6 lumens per watt.  A 42W CFL puts out 2700 lumens or 64.3 lumens per watt.  I would recommend T5s for vegging, they are simply more cost efficient and you will see it every month on your power bill.  What kind/size light are you running in your flowering room?


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

CowboyBudsky said:
			
		

> You need a minimum of 3000 lumens psf while vegging and such,,5000 is what most shoot for,,, and most shoot for even more lumens,, the more Lumens,,,the better yeild is what most will tell ya.Course ya need the right spectrum.
> You have 9sf x 3000 minimum= 27,000 lumens, Thats like 10 42 watt cfl's @ 2700 lumens per @ 2700K. THey have them at Lowes. H*IDS are the best,,but Floras(T5's) and CFL's will work. *I know,,I have some in Flower right now under Floras and CFL's. Nothing special,,but its mine and it smokes real good. :hubba:



but i read at many forums '' hids are not good for seedlings and rooting clones .HIDs are the best for vegging plants,and flouros are the best for rooting clones and young seedlings ''

@The Hemp Goddess
i have 600watt hps in 23sqft tent.i i will grow about 25 plant.i want to keep few moms to get clones from them in the future..thats way i will buy a homebox S.(80 X80 cm )
i will use this for keeping moms vegging so that i can get clones ,and i'll also use this tent for rooting the clones..
someday i will buy a mH for only vegging,but not today.


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## WeedHopper (Feb 6, 2009)

charlesweedmore said:
			
		

> but i read at many forums '' hids are not good for seedlings and rooting clones .HIDs are the best for vegging plants,and flouros are the best for rooting clones and young seedlings ''
> 
> @The Hemp Goddess
> i have 600watt hps in 23sqft tent.i i will grow about 25 plant.i want to keep few moms to get clones from them in the future..thats way i will buy a homebox S.(80 X80 cm )
> ...


 
That I dont know,,and I aint gonna lie. I use Floras,,so I wouldnt know if HIDs are bad for seedlings or not...but,,my guess is its still gonna be about the distance the lights are from the seedlings as long as your heat is not an issue in the Growroom.


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

> and* You need a minimum of 3000 lumens psf while vegging and such,,5000 is what most shoot fo*r,,, and most shoot for even more lumens,, the more Lumens,,,the better yeild is what most will tell ya.Course ya need the right spectrum.


but look at this :


> The T5 Light Wave is supplied with 6500k 54w cool daylight tubes and tests have shown that they make an excellent substitute for metal halide lamps giving great performance and saving power when used in the vegetative growth stage. By adding red lamps they can also be used to good effect in the flowing stage. The T5 Light Wave can be suspended horizontally or vertically making them good as either a main or a supplementary lighting system. To see them in action check the article in the resource section of our site.
> 
> &#8226; Low running costs
> &#8226; Low heat
> ...



1200 X 350mm =4.8' X 1.4 ' = 6.72 sqft.
total lumen : 17800
17800/6.72 = 2648 lumens for per sqft.

does it mean that this is  useless ?


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## WeedHopper (Feb 6, 2009)

Not sure about the T5 setup or tubes your looking at,,but my T5's are 5000 lumens per tube.I have a 4ft 6tube T5 setup,, putting out 30,000 lumens and 6 CFL's putting out 15,600 lumens,,for a total of 45,000 lumens for 8sf of Grow area.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=408130&postcount=1


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 6, 2009)

:yeahthat: 

My T5s put out 5000 lumens per tube also.  

While 2648 lumens per sq ft is not "useless", you will be underlit, as you are in your flowering room.  More wattage/lumens translates directly to more bud.  While there are many many factors that contribute to the quantity of bud you get, nothing plays a bigger part than your lighting.  

Can you provide a link for this light--the lumens just seem low for a HO.


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## yumyumbubblegum (Feb 6, 2009)

*I have a 2' 4 bulb  T5 set up in my HomeBox XS for my moms, I think a MH setup would be a little overkill for a veg room/tent (unless you have ahuge grow room) I think alot of people here keep their moms/veg under T5's (THG & NCH come to mind) *
*
Here is my completed setup waiting to be put to work *

*EDIT: In a HomeBox S you would probably want to run a T5 so you don't have to worry about heat and taking up all your valuable headroom for trying to cool a MH JMHO...
*


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

i cant give lnk
pls remove  '' # ''
w#ww.progrow.co.uk/acatalog/info_4265.html

@CowboyBudsky; thanks for pics
@yum,thanks for pics
but why dont you use an exhaust for homebox XS? how do you change the air  inside of tent ? 

your system is that ?:
pls remove  '' # ''
ht#tp://htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=49229


> # Low Profile - only 2.25 inches !
> # Four 2&#8217; High Output T5 Bulbs Included
> # *Overall Dimensions: 12 3/4" Wide x 24 3/8" Long x 2 1/4" Deep*
> # F24T5HO High Output bulbs have extremely high lumen per watt rating - 2,000 lumens per bulb! *This system emits an impressive 8,000 lumens!*



total lumen for per sqft = 1.3 ' X 2.4 ' =3.12 total lumen =8000 
8000/3,12 =2564 per sqft

well,isn't  it  too low ?
why did i think it is too low ?  because :



> and You need a minimum of 3000 lumens psf while vegging and such,,5000 is what most shoot for,,, and most shoot for even more lumens,, the more Lumens,,,the better yeild is what most will tell ya.Course ya need the right spectrum.


@The Hemp Goddess
thanks for   infos

*
i may be wrong but i am trying to learn something..as i said,i am newbie..

thanks  *


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## yumyumbubblegum (Feb 6, 2009)

*If you are going to be installing this in a HomeBox S then you have to consider that this is a 4' light and the HBS is only 31.5" wide. *

The *Homebox Small*, like its larger counterparts, is a portable alternative to building a permanent grow room. Assemble the aluminum frame, pull the one-piece tent over the frame, secure via zippers, and insert the secondary flooring. Quick and easy set up requires no additional tools; just add your lights and other equipment and you're ready to go! The durable Homebox tent is light- and air-impermeable with a reflective white plastic inner lining. Upper frame supports reflectors without built-in ballasts and features an attachment to mount an exhaust fan and filter as well as a six-inch outlet sleeve for ducting fan exhaust. Measures 31.5" x 31.5" x 63.                              			        

*also posting links like this is the norm (replace the xx with tt)

hxxp://www.progrow.co.uk/acatalog/info_4265.html*


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## CasualGrower (Feb 6, 2009)

OK, I Veg under 4 ft 40 watt tube shoplights, 2 tubes a light..... 1 plant per 5 gallon bucket and 3 buckets a light I could probably get 5 buckets under the light of each, but my space is not condusive to that atm. (untill the plants start to get some size anyway)..... Nice tight node spacing (just keep your light close).

If ya wanna get cheaper.... Go get some of those clamp on work lights with the 10 in aluminum reflector......  while plants are young, screw in a 13 watt CFL and drop that reflector right on top that plant..... when the plants starts to get a lil size, change it out for a 23 watt CFL..... after it gets big enough for that it will be ready to bloom.


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## yumyumbubblegum (Feb 6, 2009)

*Yes, it is low BUT I should  have said that I have all the stuff to wire together 7 CFL's that I have @ 1100 lumens (before my stroke I was a electronics tech. for 24 years, so wiring is my specialty, I have all the tools and connectors) so I can squeeze in 7700 more(ish). The space I had available only allowed me a XS, so I will make it work  as for circulation, I have a thin fan that I will be putting behind the tent  blowing air in through the bottom vent, when I put plants in there I will determine if I need that other fan in there (I will want the floorspace)..*





			
				charlesweedmore said:
			
		

> @yum,thanks for pics
> but why dont you use an exhaust for homebox XS? how do you change the air  inside of tent ?
> 
> your system is that ?:
> ...


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

thanks yumi.


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 6, 2009)

electric is too expensive here  ..
well,in any case;
we must have at least 1 mh,1 hps and 1 flouro set to achieve  the best 
,is it true ?
i have homebox XL silver with 600watt hps  @ cooltube
i will buy 400 watt mh for homebox S.. 
(little question:can 400w MH lamp be used in 125mm X 490 mm Cool Tube ? )  
i will buy a flouro (or cfl ) set for my clones & seedlings & vegging moms ..
i will keep moms under flouro 18/6 or 15/9..when i get clones from moms,i will put the clones  on Homebox XL under flouro for 10-15 days until rooting and at  this stage 400 MH will be used for vegging moms in homebox S for 10-15 days (untill clones come )
after 15 days,if my clones would be rooted well and look like healty ,in other words,if cloning process would be succesfull,they will go to homebox S under 400w MH,and they will begin vegging..
and old moms will be destroyed ..

1)
Q:why will i use homebox S instead of  homebox XS ?
A:i will begin to grow in solo cups and after they rooted( about 15 days later),i will transplant  them nearly 4 litre pots that are 15cm X 15 cm.
i will grow almost 25 plants.
homebox XS is not enough big for 25 plants that in 15cm2 pots...
i will vegging the girls  in homebox S under 400w mh and in 15cm2 pots..

After vegging phase,i will put 22 or 23 plants to flowering room under 600w hps.
and the rest 2 or 3 vegged girls will be '' new mother moms '' and they will  keep on vegging under flouros or CFLs..

it is my plan.
what do you think ?


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## yumyumbubblegum (Feb 6, 2009)

*25 plants in a XL? 25 plants in a XXL would be alot

I have 6 and it is way to crowded for me jmo tho...*


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 6, 2009)

Okay, those are 2' tubes, which is why the lumens are lower--the wattage is also lower.  I think you will be okay vegging with that fixture.  I am really impressed with what the T5 will do.  This is a link to some pics of my girls.  All the plants have been vegged with a T5 fluoro. 
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25704


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Feb 6, 2009)

I just put my 400mh away and now just veg with t5's. Almost no heat, and way less power. Also, you don't need to run a big blower to cool your veg space which is nice. I replaced my 400 with 14 2-foot t5's and I still use about 300+ watts less (counting the blower) and I get waaaay better coverage in my tent (2.5x5). Nodes are tighter and plants are just generally bushier which is what I'm going for.


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 7, 2009)

Dr. Manny Bowles said:
			
		

> I just put my 400mh away and now just veg with t5's. Almost no heat, and way less power. Also, you don't need to run a big blower to cool your veg space which is nice. I replaced my 400 with 14 2-foot t5's and I still use about 300+ watts less (counting the blower) and I get waaaay better coverage in my tent (2.5x5). Nodes are tighter and plants are just generally bushier which is what I'm going for.


mate it sounds like pretty cool,but i have 1 extra cooltube 490 X125 mm and i want to use it for 400mh..
i know that mh lamps are more belly than HPS.
at least sumnaster MH lamps is so..
i saw pihilips mh lamp are  as  thin as HPS
can i use 400w mh with 125mm X490mm cooltube ?

and 14 flouro and probably each is 27w and 2000 lumen is equal to approximate 28000 lumen .
400w MH is 29000..they are almost same..but flouros are more expensive ..(reflector  and 4 X digital balast for 4 flouros)
i will already use a 350m3 exhaust in my vegging room(homebox S )
and i have already had a cooltube 125m X490mm..
thats why i would prefer MH for vegging but for cutting flouro should be used i think.



			
				The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Okay, those are 2' tubes, which is why the lumens are lower--the wattage is also lower. I think you will be okay vegging with that fixture. I am really impressed with what the T5 will do. This is a link to some pics of my girls. All the plants have been vegged with a T5 fluoro.
> ww#w.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=25704



i am glad to hear that..
thanks my friend.



			
				yumyumbubblegum said:
			
		

> 25 plants in a XL? 25 plants in a XXL would be alot
> 
> I have 6 and it is way to crowded for me jmo tho...



why m8 ?

all plant would be put into 20 litre pots thats 25X25 cm 
homebox XL is 120cm X120 CM

it means almost 25 pots can be put into homebox XL..isnt it good idea ?

do you think how many girls i should  grow  at once  ?

ps: as you see,i am still hungry for new ideas lol


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## WeedHopper (Feb 7, 2009)

I have found that my plants need at least 1.5 to 2 sf of growspace per plant,,in order for lights to penatrate and for the branches to have room to bush out. I have 8sf and I dont like over 3 to 4 plants in there at one time. 3 works best for me,,but my grow is just for me and the Wife.


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 7, 2009)

according to this formula,you can grow 8/1,5 = max 5.3 plants at once,and i can grow (23sqft tent ) max 15,3 plants at the same time for flowering tent..
but for vegging rooms,we may grow more plants in smaller areas cuz vegging plants are smaller than flowering ones..
i mean i can vegg  20 plants  in 15cmX15cm pots (4 litre) at 80 cm X 80 cm tent under MH for first 30 days ,is it true ?
and after vegging,i will transplant them bigger pots like 20 litre and they will go to flowering room under 600w hps,and rest 4 plants will be '' vegging moms ''

i am learning..this forum is a great school for me..thanks my friends for everything.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Feb 7, 2009)

charlesweedmore said:
			
		

> and 14 flouro and probably each is 27w and 2000 lumen is equal to approximate 28000 lumen .
> 400w MH is 29000..they are almost same..but flouros are more expensive ..(reflector  and 4 X digital balast for 4 flouros)



Actually, t5 setups have come way down. I have about $450 invested in my 3 fixtures including bulbs. When you add up a decent hood, ballast, MH bulb and blower, the t5's are cheaper. Bulb replacement will be about $200 with the t5's compared to $135 for the MH bulb but I will save that $65 in power so it's worth it I think.
If you already have the equipment, they by all means go with the MH. I think you will have a hard time fitting 20 vegging plants under one 400 though, at least after the first couple weeks. 
Are you planning on flowering all 20 under a 600? If so, you may need more light there also.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 7, 2009)

Basically, x watts of light is going to produce y quantity of bud, regardless of the number of plants you have.  I believe that you are going to find that having that many plants in that small a space is going to make it hard to care for them.  Is there any reason that you have chosen many many small plants instead of growing several larger ones, especially since you have a 600W?


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 7, 2009)

there is no reason mate..
i thought that 20 or 25 plants in 31 1/2 '' x 31 1/2'' x 63'' tent under 600w HPS would be ok..however,i was wrong..

i will try to grow 15 plants for first time..

@Dr. Manny Bowles
i dont understand why it is hard to vegg 20 plants under 400w MH (30000 lumens ) in 31 1/2 '' x 31 1/2'' x 63'' tent ?


> *I think you will have a hard time fitting 20 vegging plants under one 400 though, at least after the first couple weeks.*
> Are you planning on flowering all 20 under a 600? If so, you may need more light there also.



why mate ?
i will vegg 20 plants under 400W MH in homebox S..i will choose the best 15 girls for flowering  and they would go to 47 '' x 47 '' x 78 '' tent under 600w hps..and the rest 5 girls would stay at homebox S as '' vegging moms '' under 110w T5 flouro..
400w MH produce 30000 lumens..i will buy homebox S (31 1/2 ''  x 31 1/2 '' x 63'') for vegging room.it means nearly 3000 lumens for per sqft ..
why shouldnt i keep 20 plants under 400W MH at the same time ?
MH would produce 3000 lumens for per sqft ..
what is the wrong on that ?


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 7, 2009)

is different spectrum flouros needed for '' cultivation of cuttings and seedlings '' and '' the growth of young plants '' ?
 i saw this,is it true ?

hXXp://www.udopea.de/product_info.p...L-D-Super-80-18W-865--18Watt--1300-lumen.html



> Standard light color with average color rendering (1B). Fluorescent lamp with a diameter of approx. 26mm.* Light color: 865 (is equivalent to 6500 Kelvin)**The cool-white light of Philips TL-D Super 80 is* *especially capable for the growth of young plants!*
> High durability, high light effort, neutral-white light color



hXXp://www.udopea.de/product_info.php/info/p15657_Philips-TL-D-18W-830--18Watt--1350-Lumes.html



> Standard light color with average color rendering (1B). Fluorescent lamp with a diameter of approx. 26mm. *Light color: 840 (is equivalent to 4000 Kelvin)**The blue-white light spectrum is especially recommended for the cultivation of cuttings and seedlings!*
> High durability, high light effort, neutral-white light color


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 7, 2009)

I think that you should really consider vegging with a T5 instead of the MH.  I can truly say that I see very little difference in vegetative growth between my 400W MH and my 216W T5.  And electrical costs do not even figure into this decision.  I live in an area where electricity is fairly cheap and I also use the heat from my lights to help heat my house in the winter.


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 7, 2009)

only problem of MH is heat ?
lets calculate again..
216w T5 fixture would provide max 20000 lumens,and 250w MH equal to 20000 lumens..almost same.. again..
but heat is very important issue..
also as we talk,300w T5 are equal to 400W MH,too..
however...
if i use MH,i will use it in cooltube with 350m3 extractor.
if i use T5,i need to put 300w T5 fixture for homebox S..
reflector of 300W T5 system are very big(at least bigger and heavier than MH..
bigger and heavier things bring about bigger custom issues(yes i buy it online and from a foreigner country )..

i have to think at twice..


but i really dont know if it is really hard to vegg 20 plants under 400w MH


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## WeedHopper (Feb 7, 2009)

Hey man,,ya seem to be arguing with yourself about the T5's or MH. Use which ever one ya think is best for your setup.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Feb 7, 2009)

Hmm, I tried to upload some pics to show you a t5 veg, but tonite its not working. Veg on:bong1:


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 8, 2009)

thanks my friends.i am taking a look all journals..
the best way it is..


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## nvthis (Feb 8, 2009)

I think you will quickly find, as I have, that not all plants are created equal when considering artificial light. When growing outdoors there is little consideration needed for plant width and even less for plant height. This all changes indoors. The hardest issues I deal with is space management. You are talking about maxing out your space with plants that aren't even grown yet and the bigger the light the faster your space issues are going to become apparent. Some strains are very aggressive and compound the problem. Having indy's, sats and highbreds together will also cause you heartache. Unless you are going to flower your mothers each time and veg your fresh cuts for your next round you are going to find out the hard way that living plants don't always do what you want them to. All the reading, math and logic you can cite won't make your mothers behave. It is a bad feeling having to exclude a mother you have grown to term because you can't support her with the space she needs, like when she becomes rootlocked and begins giving you all sorts of issues because you have determined in advance that she will exist in the pot size that best fits your convenience. When folks are saying your space won't work, it's most likely because they have been there-done that. Take it to heart and start with fewer moms until you know what they can or can't do. You will be much more pleased with yourself in the long run. One thing I have learned that might apply here is use fluros and as few as you can get away with. You don't need much to maintain a mother plant. Hell, you don't even need t5's. You can still get tight noding and if you tie down the main stems to control height you can take the clones from the side branching to keep her width in check. Don't worry, with only one flower room, you will have cuts to spare...


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Feb 8, 2009)

Here's those pics I was trying to get at last night. This tent is 2.5'x5' and is pretty much completely full with 10 skunkberry ladies. These girls have been vegging under t5's for around 2 months and are in 3 gallon bags. I can't wait to flower them


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## charlesweedmore (Feb 9, 2009)

thanks my friends


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