# 2 (smart)meter opponents arrested in Naperville: 'A society of violating one another'



## 7greeneyes (Jan 25, 2013)

*I see alot of postings on mj growing forums regarding concern over their smart meters. Use common sense as well as be sure to pay your bill and don't steal electricity and you'll be fine. This is what happens when you physically confront the power companies' installers.*

url: h*MP*p://articles.chicagotribune.com/2013-01-24/news/chi-naperville-smart-meter-arrest-20130123_1_meter-opponents-smart-meter-wireless-meters

*Two (smart)meter opponents arrested in Naperville: 'A society of violating one another'*​ 
Two vocal opponents of Naperville&#8217;s initiative to install wireless electric meters on homes were arrested after interfering with the installation process, according to city officials.

Police are accompanying crews this week as they install smart meters at homes that previously sent away installers.

&#8220;The previous installation attempts were met with some resistance and we wanted to ensure our employees&#8217; safety,&#8221; City Manager Doug Krieger said.












Naperville has installed smart meters on 57,000 homes and is about 99 percent through with the process. Officials have said the project will make the electric system more reliable and efficient and reduce costs.

However, the Naperville Smart Meter Awareness group has expressed concerns over whether the wireless meters will affect health, security and privacy. The group has a federal lawsuit pending against the city.

The two women arrested Wednesday are leaders of the group.

Malia "Kim" Bendis of the 2200 block of Mercer Court was charged with two misdemeanors &#8212; attempted eavesdropping and resisting a peace officer.

Jennifer Stahl of the 1400 block of Westglen Drive, received two ordinance violation citations &#8212; interfering with a police officer and preventing access to customer premises.

Stahl, who was released from custody about 4:30 p.m., said when she refused the smart meter, installers accompanied by police cut the bicycle lock she had placed on her fence and entered her backyard. She then stood in front of her electric meter and refused to move.

&#8220;It was forced on my house today,&#8221; she said. &#8220;It was really a violation. I violated something, but I&#8217;ve been violated too so I guess we&#8217;re now in a society of violating one another.&#8221;

The city, which has repeatedly declared the wireless meters to be safe, offers a non-wireless alternative meter to residents with concerns. There is a $68.35 initial fee for a non-wireless meter plus a $24.75 monthly fee for manually reading it. Stahl said residents who want a non-wireless meter should not have to pay for it, and said she represents other homeowners who were not able to continue to refuse the wireless meter installation.

&#8220;I have not done the work of attempting to educate the community and advocating for the right of anybody in Naperville to refuse the smart meter just to stand off to the side,&#8221; she said.

Bendis exited the Naperville Police Department about an hour later to handful of smart meter opponents who cheered for her release.  She declined comment, citing the advice of her attorney.

Krieger defended the city moving forward with installation of the meters despite the objections from some homeowners.

&#8220;The city has always had and maintains the right to access our equipment, and today we were simply exercising that right,&#8221; he said.


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## Ruffy (Jan 25, 2013)

we will see! i didnt allow them to install in my rented legal grow home, my lawyer is my landlord lol
i have a yr left on my lic & 1 yrs left till our canadian gov changes the rules for no more residential grows are allowed.
when they see im running 2k of power in the eve,they prob have a copper come see me lol. i also have 2 cops that live right behind me. 
i dont care cause im legal, but we will seee. & yes i pay every fat hydro bill that comes threw,


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## Dman1234 (Jan 25, 2013)

These meters come up as a topic once in awhile, but they are nothing, pay your bill and nothing ever happens unless you go massive. i have had a SM for atleast 5 yrs and i have had 1200 watts going on and off at the exact same time everyday for the whole 5 yrs. they allow the power company to charge you different rates at different times of the day and thats pretty much it.


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## 7greeneyes (Jan 25, 2013)

Like I've told my way paranoid grow guru, Dude, the power company will not rat you out, the bigger the bill the more revenue that comes back to them. As long as you're sensible with your usage and don't utilize a warehouse to bloom you're golden. oh yeah and DON'T STEAL ELECTRICITY!!!


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## MeNtAlPaTiEnT (Jan 25, 2013)

Well, if you use high electricity and the cops look at your usage because they are already scoping you out, they can use that as evidence to obtain a warrant. Happened before.


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## ShOrTbUs (Jan 25, 2013)

in jersey the government pays for something like 40-60% of the cost of installation for solar panels on your home. so when i move to my new house, i'll be going green for sure. then when i have my friend who is an electrician come in to wire my new grow room. i'll also have him add the extra panels needed as well. the less people who know about my power consumption the better. HERE'S TO GOING GREEN          :48:


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## MeNtAlPaTiEnT (Jan 25, 2013)

Maybe one day you can incorporate solar panels Shortbus?


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## ShOrTbUs (Jan 25, 2013)

MeNtAlPaTiEnT said:
			
		

> Maybe one day you can incorporate solar panels Shortbus?



ohh i plan on it in the future


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## MeNtAlPaTiEnT (Jan 25, 2013)

ShOrTbUs said:
			
		

> ohh i plan on it in the future


Very cool! Have you kept up to date with the current technology? I think most conventional solar panels only convert something like 20% of light captured into energy.... Still quite a ways to go it seems!


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## BackWoodsDrifter (Jan 26, 2013)

Any smart meter have in my parts be the one in me pants  Wifes says its smart cause it stays away from her mostly

BWD


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## BackWoodsDrifter (Jan 26, 2013)

Gots more red rep! From pilgrem who failed to leave mark on the wall. Sorry for offendin ya and also sorry yual raised coward. Id say sorry personaly but yual didnt give me chance so be sayin my mind here to open forum  Hope yur trails end well who ever ya be!

BWD


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## WeedHopper (Jan 26, 2013)

It aint the Power Company or Smart Meters ya need to be aware of. Its yur mouth,,keep it shut and nobody will know.


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## pcduck (Jan 26, 2013)

Know what?


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## DrFever (Jan 26, 2013)

7greeneyes said:
			
		

> Like I've told my way paranoid grow guru, Dude, the power company will not rat you out, the bigger the bill the more revenue that comes back to them. As long as you're sensible with your usage and don't utilize a warehouse to bloom you're golden. oh yeah and DON'T STEAL ELECTRICITY!!!


See  its not the power company you need to worry about  its like many companies  like health care privatizing , and that is what you need to worry about  see  these smart meters  will be montored by a outside source  and billing  etc is also a outside source , i know this cause my ex wife does the billing 
  and them outside sources  can sell your idenity just like how you get  add calls,  survey calls  etc how you think they got your number ???? 
 and that is where the problem lies  your private information is  going through  a few hands ,
 And Trust me  cops can get all that info like nothing  pretty easy really seeing  more power consumption at certain times of the day  yup  they just monitor you  for a while / under cover investigate  and after a while  they jump on you 
  Hell i have friends    4 years after the  fact got busted  for conspiracy , money laundering  for importing 700 kilos over a span of 2 years  and guess what they were not growing  nothing  at the time of arrest  but there in jail ?????


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## Ruffy (Jan 26, 2013)

> Hell i have friends 4 years after the fact got busted for conspiracy , money laundering for importing 700 kilos over a span of 2 years and guess what they were not growing nothing at the time of arrest but there in jail ?????


?


bro that has nothing to do with growing!
when your that big selling chems, thats all they need, Then to catch u with it. ur done, & conspiracy to comit, is for murder,
if u sell enuff blow ect, that what they charge u with due to the possability to kill all the people you sold to. not 1 single thing to do with weed bud


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## WeedHopper (Jan 26, 2013)

:huh:


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## sasnak (Jan 26, 2013)

Damned if you do & damned if you don't.....

If you do accept a Smart Meter you are open to whatever may or may not come along with it. Most likely nothing based on probable cause laws.
If you don't accept a SM, the question becomes, why? There are a lot of answers to this question from health concerns to a NATO conspiracy theory, so just pick one.
Of course when you refuse a SM a little red flag is apt pop up as to why you really did'nt want a SM, plus now you have  be concerned about who that meter reader really is and if he is looking at just your meter. JMHO


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## DrFever (Jan 26, 2013)

Ruffy said:
			
		

> ?
> 
> 
> bro that has nothing to do with growing!
> ...



 700 kilos of pot and yes  conspiracy,  money laundering , goes with it


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## WeedHopper (Jan 26, 2013)

I like Smart Meters. It keeps Meter readers outta my yard. Unless you are already on the cops radar,,a Smart Meter is not gonna get you busted. Moving Lips is what gets you busted.
Ive NEVER seen anyone busted for Kilowatt Usage unless they were stealing it in the 1st place.


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## pcduck (Jan 26, 2013)

Pay your bill

If you want to grow enough for a warehouse, go to a commercial district and grow, there they are use to high consumption.

Pay your bill


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## WeedHopper (Jan 26, 2013)

:yeahthat:


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## Dman1234 (Jan 26, 2013)

no one is getting a search warrant because 1200 or even 3000 watts go on or off at set times, at least not where i live, if your really big and not legal, that could be different, there are a million reasons people can be using power.


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## Ruffy (Jan 26, 2013)

sorry doc, i thaught u were talkin coke not weed, my bad, ill just shut up now lol


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## DrFever (Jan 26, 2013)

Dman1234 said:
			
		

> no one is getting a search warrant because 1200 or even 3000 watts go on or off at set times, at least not where i live, if your really big and not legal, that could be different, there are a million reasons people can be using power.


 Very true   but with them smart meters  they can tell what times more power is used  and if your vegging 18 hrs  it can track it  whats to say they decide to run a program to  red flag   customers  that run  plant cycles  of 18 /6  or 12 /12  don;t think it isn;t easy to do  its  the new era  right  where our rights are taken away  and government can do what ever they like.
 no different then  the obama care program ?? where eventually every US citizen will have a micro chip in them , they say its to do one thing when in reality its there to monitor your movements track you  incase of a out of control tax policy and citizens take a run at the government 
 bottom line its all about Control


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## cubby (Jan 26, 2013)

DrFever said:
			
		

> no different then  the obama care program ?? where eventually every US citizen will have a micro chip in them , they say its to do one thing when in reality its there to monitor your movements track you  incase of a out of control tax policy and citizens take a run at the government
> bottom line its all about Control



.
.
.
.
Apparently you need one of those jackets that buckles up the back...
And read the rules....leave your political conspiracies at the door.


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## Rosebud (Jan 26, 2013)

DrFever said:
			
		

> Very true but with them smart meters they can tell what times more power is used and if your vegging 18 hrs it can track it whats to say they decide to run a program to red flag customers that run plant cycles of 18 /6 or 12 /12 don;t think it isn;t easy to do its the new era right where our rights are taken away and government can do what ever they like.
> no different then the obama care program ?? where eventually every US citizen will have a micro chip in them , they say its to do one thing when in reality its there to monitor your movements track you incase of a out of control tax policy and citizens take a run at the government
> bottom line its all about Control


 
Paranoid much?


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## BackWoodsDrifter (Jan 26, 2013)

Ifin I can put ways to grow without worry it would be plain to simple pilgrems.
First thing we all knows and that be tell no buddy of what ya doin then no buddy can tell some one else this were it snow balls then someone with axe to grind or in need to get self out of trouble aint goin to roll on ya cause they dont knows what yur doin right.

Second it be simple thing this hydro thing pilgrems all ya gots to do is plain and simple. Keep yur useage in fluctuation and never ever set to schedual then no one can pin point use and how much is used makin warrent imposable. By this I mean never run everything at a regular schedual. For example ifin yur runnin 1000w light on 18/6 and a heater 24/7 and fan 24/7 and lets say idk a dehumidifier well ifin they run one day at set time then ifin yual have ability to change a set schedual without hurtin yur plants then do it. Ifin the next day the temps get high enough to turn yur heater off then do it or ifin yual want to show a varience in light well for a day here or there bump lights on to 19/5 (Veg we be talkin) or if ya can turn yur fan of couple hours. The whole point be keep it changin in some way or form and they can never get proper warrent cause a Justice would not risk it without concrete proff of evidence. Just keep it changin and yual  never get pin pointed. Works fur me and i sleep like baby at night well that be the shine workin but I do sleep without worry. Hope yual have safe trails and hope I might have given idea to help keep peace of mind 

BWD


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## Mainebud (Jan 27, 2013)

From personal experience I will say this, the police can and will use your electric bill to get a search warrant. But not based on that alone. They will check your electric bill because someone told them you are growing. So they will use that as a piece of the puzzle. A confidential informant has to pass a test called Anguilla-spinnelli. They have to prove reliability and basis of knowledge. Typically they have ratted on someone else that led to conviction and that satisfies reliability. The other is they have to say something like I was in his bedroom and he showed me a grow tent full of weed. Then when warrant is executed that info has to match. Understand this, the police have to provide enough evidence to a judge convince him to allow them to violate your constitutional rights. So IMO based on some experience with the legal system, a high electric bill alone is not enough to justify a search warrant. But it may be enough to get them snooping. Enemy number one? Our need to brag! Be safe or be legal my friends!


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## DrFever (Jan 27, 2013)

Smart meters provide highly detailed energy-use data. The info can be used by police to find and to bust indoor pot farms, by insurance companies to determine health care premiums, and by criminals to determine if you own high-dollar appliances and when is the best time to steal them. And that's only the tip of the potential privacy invasion iceberg.

In central Ohio, police file at least 60 subpoenas each month for energy-use records of people suspected in indoor marijuana growing operations, reported the Columbus Dispatch. Most of the houses with indoor pot growing operations are reportedly in quiet neighborhoods without much traffic. DEA agent Anthony Marotta said the subpoena is only one tool used to catch "grow house" operators. Police get a tip about suspicious activity, but if undercover officers don't discover anything illegal during a stake out, then utility consumption records can be sought. "How else can I get an indicator to get probable cause if I can't see anything?" Marotta said to reporter Dean Narciso.

digg

High electricity usage does not always indicate a pot growing operation. DEA agent Marotta told the Columbus Dispatch of a federal investigation that surprised drug detectives. "We thought it was a major grow operation ... but this guy had some kind of business involving computers. I don't know how many computer servers we found in his home."

Using the smart grid for surveillance to catch marijuana growing operations is far from a new concept. NeverGetBusted documented "fishing for pot" by "trolling for data" back in 2006. In 2007, the Dallas Criminal Defense Lawyer Blog reported on Texas warrantless surveillance programs in which Austin Energy provided Austin Police with customer usage information to find indoor pot farms.

But according to the Baltimore Sun, pot growers use pirated electricity by tapping and routing lines, unmetered, to their grow rooms. Smart meters can change that by identifying the undetected illegal power lines. Software will detect anomalies and electricity theft. British Columbia Hydro's smart-meter expert Fiona Taylor told the Vancouver Sun, "This system will allow us to follow the flow of electricity from point to point. We will be able to see at a macro level what is happening." By cutting back on the 3% of illegal electricity used by pot growers, BC Hydro expects smart meters to pay for themselves in under 10 years.

In comments via several online articles about using the smart grid to target indoor marijuana gardens, some people say that every minute a police department "wastes" by reading electricity consumption could have been used to fight "real" crime like murder.

The U.S. Department of Energy warned [PDF] that smart grid technology can provide a highly detailed household profile of energy consumption and said policies are needed to restrict utilities from sharing consumer usage data with third parties. The National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST) outlined Potential Privacy Impacts that Arise from the Collection and Use of Smart Grid Data [PDF].

From reading it, a person might wonder if smart meters will be real-time surveillance spies. It suggests that insurance companies might use the smart meter data to determine health care premiums, such as if there is high usage at night which would indicate sleep behavior problems. Besides looking to bust pot farmers, law enforcement might use the data as "real-time surveillance to determine if residents are present and current activities inside the home." The press might wish to see the smart meter data of celebrities. Criminals may want to see the data to determine the best time for a burglary and what high dollar appliances you might have to steal. Marketers might want the data for profiling and targeting advertisements. Creditors might want the data to determine if behavior indicates creditworthiness.

It is little wonder that privacy advocates call for robust privacy policies since the captured smart meter data can reveal an intimate and highly detailed look into people's lives. Security experts also call to plug potential smart grid security risks. Lockheed Martin general manager of Energy and Cyber Services said the smart grid could include as many as 440 million new hackable points by the end of 2015, reported Computerworld.

There is a great deal of good that smart grid technology can do, but it holds many potential privacy and security problems. Without strong privacy policies, smart meters could easily become be real-time surveillance spies.


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## DrFever (Jan 27, 2013)

Rosebud said:
			
		

> Paranoid much?


With  90 percent of people actually growing illegally  yea paranoid is a good thing  wouldn't you think ????  for instance  look at canada      you caught with 4 plants its mandatory  5 years min      and yes  Full  5 years in jail    now some of these  medical growers with a license again like in canada  hae abused there privileges.
  and that is why  canada health has changed  everything by 2014  that alone will in time impact what happens down south as both countries  work hand in hand  
bottom line its all **  and un constitutional  out rights are slowly being taken away  and were not doing fck all about it , when was last time  you crossed a border or went over seas ????  you see how much  security  hell  you look at them wrong they can hold you  for how ever long they want   and just say   your a suspected terrorist  and pow


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## BackWoodsDrifter (Jan 27, 2013)

Courts in Canada be callin our current laws flawed pilgrem so Enforcement agencys aint touch nothin less it real blaiten. Laws have to be overhauled and to many charges gettin tossed right now so Leos are spendin time doin things and chargin only things that stick. Canada be evolvin just thought I would update yur Canadian info 

BWD


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## Rosebud (Jan 27, 2013)

"no different then the obama care program ?? where eventually every US citizen will have a micro chip in them , they say its to do one thing when in reality its there to monitor your movements track you incase of a out of control tax policy and citizens take a run at the government 
bottom line its all about Control" 

I believe this is what prompted my response, I stand by it. Micro chip? Really?


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## DrFever (Jan 27, 2013)

Rosebud said:
			
		

> "no different then the obama care program ?? where eventually every US citizen will have a micro chip in them , they say its to do one thing when in reality its there to monitor your movements track you incase of a out of control tax policy and citizens take a run at the government
> bottom line its all about Control"
> 
> I believe this is what prompted my response, I stand by it. Micro chip? Really?



Seems people will be getting more than they bargained for in this new health care bill.

The Obama health care bill under Sec. 2521, page 1,000 will establish a National Medical Device Registry. What does a National Medical Device Registry mean?

National Medical Device Registry from H.R. 3200 [Healthcare Bill], pages 1,001-1,008:
(g)(1) The Secretary shall establish a national medical device registry (in this subsection referred to as the registry) to facilitate analysis of postmarket safety and outcomes data on each device that (A) is or has been used in or on a patient; (B)and is (i) a class III device; or (ii) a class II device that is implantable, life-supporting, or life-sustaining.

A "class II device that is implantable?"

Then on page 1,004 it describes what the term "data" means in paragraph 1, section B: (B) In this paragraph, the term data refers to in formation respecting a device described in paragraph (1), including claims data, patient survey data, standardized analytic files that allow for the pooling and analysis of data from disparate data environments, electronic health records, and any other data deemed appropriate by the Secretary."

Approved by the FDA, a class II implantable device is a "implantable radiofrequency transponder system for patient identification and health information."

So those who opt to be included in the Obama health care plan will be offered an implantable chip which will include medical history, patient survey data, and any other data they might need to diagnose your illness or condition. Are you sure you want to go down this slippery slope?

Jason Conley
Harrison

* * *

There are a few things that cause concern in the health care reform, but being forced to have a microchip implanted in you is not one of them. The section you are referring to has nothing to do with implanting chips in people. Clearly, you don't even understand what a Class II and Class III medical device is. This section of the bill clarifies what was put into place under the Safe Medical Devices act of 1990. It was then modified in 1997 as the Food and Drug Administration Modernization Act was signed.

Briefly, a Class III medical device is a device that is life-sustaining or life-supporting (like a pacemaker or a heart valve). A Class II device is a device that requires additional qualification but not as much as a Class III device (like an X-ray machine).

It's best to do some research and have an idea of what you're talking about. People, on both sides of the aisle, need to quit listening to the scare tactics of media blow-hards.

Again, this has nothing to do with sticking microchips in people. The purpose is to have proper records and reporting of malfunctioning Class II and Class III medical devices. Not so scary is it?

Lewis Baxter
[email protected]

* * *

Mr Baxter apparently doesn't know as much as he would like. Virginia legislators would disagree with him as well since they just passed a bill to outlaw involuntary implantation of the public with microchips.

This is your future Mr. Baxter whether you like it or not. Quit watching CNN and look around to the real world. You might even crack open a Bible because this is in it as well.

Michael Richardson
Red Bank

* * *

Mr. Baxter, 
I believe that the information you provided is well researched and correct. I dont believe that this health care bill mandates microchips for everyone.

However, I do fear that the phrasing of this part of the bill could be laying the groundwork for tracking medical information for everyone via microchips in the future. And Im not a fan of that. 

Mr. Richardson, I sincerely hope you are not implying that this country should be governed based on mythical prophecies from the Bible. Maybe you should close your Bible and look around the real world yourself.


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## Rosebud (Jan 27, 2013)

I am not allowed to talk politics on this site, I read the rules. Which is a very good thing.


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## Dman1234 (Jan 27, 2013)

WeedHopper said:
			
		

> I like Smart Meters. It keeps Meter readers outta my yard.



I wish i could get a smart meter for my gas too, they still have to come out to read it once in awhile.


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## BackWoodsDrifter (Jan 27, 2013)

Rosebud said:
			
		

> "no different then the obama care program ?? where eventually every US citizen will have a micro chip in them , they say its to do one thing when in reality its there to monitor your movements track you incase of a out of control tax policy and citizens take a run at the government
> bottom line its all about Control"
> 
> I believe this is what prompted my response, I stand by it. Micro chip? Really?


 
Unfortunately little lady ifin yual carry and use those fancy cell phones then yual been officialy micro chipped. They can do the same thin with those things sorry bout the reality of it 

BWD


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## Rosebud (Jan 27, 2013)

I realize that BWD, but a cell phone is by choice, I don't believe President Obama is going to microchip anyone but perhaps his dog Bo.


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## BackWoodsDrifter (Jan 27, 2013)

Rosebud said:
			
		

> I realize that BWD, but a cell phone is by choice, I don't believe President Obama is going to microchip anyone but perhaps his dog Bo.


 
Nope I agree with ya! Some pilgrem tryin to put chip under me skin goin to find it like tryin to pet a rabbid badger in the middle of a coon fight everyone in the area not leavin without lots of scares requirin medical attention. And I still be walkin away without the chip cause the only ways it be in me is ifin Im dead and not much movement recorded then 

BWD


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## 7greeneyes (Jan 28, 2013)

There's too much loose information and nothing verified. Now I've been growing for 15 + years and have always paid my bills, have grown in the middle of heavy populated cities to living in podunk WA. Not once have I (knock on wood) been busted. You first have to be ratted out for them to get any sort of leg up on you. Once again all this supposition and hyperbole means nothing when all the older growers have been suckin off the grid w/o any sort of problem. 

We do not live in Russia or China, where they have a constant monitor of it's citizens. We have certain inalienable rights, such as Privacy and Curtilage. 

Pay your bills, don't bloom in a wherehouse and Don't Steal Electricity! Again alot of open supposition and no proof.

I've been through that NeverGetBusted Again Website, we need more heroes like him.

I live in WA so the power companies are more likely more lax with growing since everyone does it...lol...but my grow guru taught me those four simple rules and I've been golden and so should you. 

Don't Tell Anyone. Don't Steal Electricity, Pay your bills and dont be greedy (don't bloom more plants then you really need or "Wherehouse bloom").


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## brimck325 (Jan 28, 2013)

these meters dont concern me right now, its in the future. when the feds legalize they wont let us grow, just like our neighbor canada is doing. only a matter of time....


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## Dman1234 (Jan 28, 2013)

brimck325 said:
			
		

> these meters dont concern me right now, its in the future. when the feds legalize they wont let us grow, just like our neighbor canada is doing. only a matter of time....



its true, if things go as they are headed up here in Canada all MMJ patients will have their weed provided for them by the gov in the next couple years. they wanna make it illeagal to grow period, legal smoker or not.


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## 7greeneyes (Jan 28, 2013)

brimck325 said:
			
		

> these meters dont concern me right now, its in the future. when the feds legalize they wont let us grow, just like our neighbor canada is doing. only a matter of time....


 
oh yeah, just like they do with Homebrewer's....wait no they don't, they don't care at all. Now if that homebrewer caused a fire and became a possible public danger, then yeah of course you'd expect them to take legal action.


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## MeNtAlPaTiEnT (Jan 28, 2013)

It is obvious the government is set on gleaning as much money from its citizens as much as possible.


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## WeedHopper (Jan 28, 2013)

7greeneyes said:
			
		

> There's too much loose information and nothing verified. Now I've been growing for 15 + years and have always paid my bills, have grown in the middle of heavy populated cities to living in podunk WA. Not once have I (knock on wood) busted. You first have to be ratted out for them to get any sort of leg up on you. Once again all this supposition and hyperbole means nothing when all the older growers have been suckin off the grid w/o any sort of problem.
> We do not live in Russia or china, where they have a constant monitor of it's citizens. We have certain inalienable rights, such as Pirvacy and Curtilage.
> Pay your bills, don't bloom in a wherehouse and Don't Steal Electricity! Again alot of open supposition and no proof.
> I've been through that NeverGetBusted Agains Website, we need more heroes like him.
> ...


 
:yeahthat: :48:


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