# rogue tap root



## CrashMagnet (Mar 17, 2022)

This seedling has been struggling for over three weeks. Another of the same seeds germinated at the same time and is now almost a foot high. I germinated them in a paper towel and stuck them in RW when the tap roots were 1/4 inch long, then moved them to DWC as soon as I saw roots sticking out of the RW. I gave the healthy one to a friend, but didn't think this one could handle the move, so I kept it.







The sick plant's tap root turned around at some point and came back out the top hole in the RW.That root is dead now, but the roots below it are still growing slowly. At the rate it's growing I will be hand watering it for a couple more weeks before the roots hit water.






Just wondering if I'm wasting my time and should just toss it. It's one sick seedling. Maybe it would do better in soil. Here it is on life support, out of the big DWC and resting in a jar with tap water adjusted to 5.8, warm air bubbles and 40K lux for 18/6.


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## Airbone (Mar 17, 2022)

I would let it go.
If it does recover it will probably herm.


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## boo (Mar 17, 2022)

agreed, why spend months growing a sickly plant...you've not got a lot of time invested with this plant, give it a decent burial and begin anew...


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## bigsur51 (Mar 17, 2022)




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## CrashMagnet (Mar 17, 2022)

My wife wants me to keep it. I have space under the light, so I think I will put it in a solo cup with dirt. If it survives someone will want it. I have more seedlings just waking up that I want to keep. Too many actually for the state I'm in.


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## WeedHopper (Mar 18, 2022)




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## bigsur51 (Mar 18, 2022)

CrashMagnet said:


> My wife wants me to keep it. I have space under the light, so I think I will put it in a solo cup with dirt. If it survives someone will want it. I have more seedlings just waking up that I want to keep. Too many actually for the state I'm in.
> 
> View attachment 290671





a happy wife is a happy life eh


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## WeedHopper (Mar 18, 2022)

It's a runt and maybe she feels sorry for it. Poor thing needs to be out down and a few words said over it 
Could burn it and put the ashes in a box for her.


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## SubmarineGirl (Mar 18, 2022)

I’ve got a little runt I’m letting hang out too. Pic with big sisters planted the same day same strain


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 18, 2022)

bigsur51 said:


> a happy wife is a happy life eh



I do anything she says, anything at all. It works for me : )


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## Hippie420 (Mar 18, 2022)

A couple of drops of bleach and a ,"Honey, it looks like Jesus called the little plant home" might be called for.

Yeah, Kevorkian was a close friend of mine.


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## pute (Mar 18, 2022)

Cull it.


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## WeedLord (Mar 18, 2022)

Before it Grows


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## OGKushman (Mar 18, 2022)

5.8ph for a seedling is what killed it


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 18, 2022)

OGKushman said:


> 5.8ph for a seedling is what killed it



Really? What should it be?


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## OGKushman (Mar 18, 2022)

CrashMagnet said:


> Really? What should it be?


For a seed 6.5 is ideal. It just needs water.  Even 7.0 hose water in old leached soil will start a seed. All the nutes for the first few sets of leaves are contained within the seed.


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## Bubba (Mar 18, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> I’ve got a little runt I’m letting hang out too. Pic with big sisters planted the same day same strain View attachment 290709


Ive grown runts out, but they were not diseased. Odd little phenos sometimes it turn out tasty and powerful.

Bubba


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 18, 2022)

OGKushman said:


> For a seed 6.5 is ideal. It just needs water.  Even 7.0 hose water in old leached soil will start a seed. All the nutes for the first few sets of leaves are contained within the seed.



Thanks, I didn't think that applied to a seedling with a couple of sets of leaves. I didn't feed it, just down adjusted the water. I'll try not to kill the others...


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 19, 2022)

It had a little root rot, but I don't think that explains all the burned leaves. Seedlings = 6.5, got it. 









Technically, I didn't toss it yet It's resting in the shade of some tomato plants in a dutch bucket. That's not green light on the perlite, it's algae. If it survives, I'll have to setup an isolated pot to avoid letting that annoying algae escape to other containers. I don't really expect it to survive the nutrients the tomatoes are drinking, though.


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## SubmarineGirl (Mar 20, 2022)

Bubba said:


> Ive grown runts out, but they were not diseased. Odd little phenos sometimes it turn out tasty and powerful.
> 
> Bubba


Right now I still have room for my runt, unless the hubs decides to use hippies idea with the bleach drops . It’s thick and unusual looking maybe a bit deformed and only about an inch tall but I think it’s trying to come around. Her two sisters are 8-10 inches tall. I just fimmed one of them yesterday after 5 nodes.  I’m gonna give the little one a transplant in a little bigger pot just to see if she comes around. Maybe I can at least learn something from the whole runt experience


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## Bubba (Mar 20, 2022)

I had one in a batch of OG Kush that smelled like orange pop, and one in a batch of Purple Dawn that reeked of garlic and onions.

Bubba


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## SubmarineGirl (Mar 20, 2022)

Bubba said:


> I had one in a batch of OG Kush that smelled like orange pop, and one in a batch of Purple Dawn that reeked of garlic and onions.
> 
> Bubba


I’m guessing they smoked different than their sisters?


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## Bubba (Mar 20, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> I’m guessing they smoked different than their sisters?


Oh yes, and both very strong


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 21, 2022)

The runt perked up in the perlite with the tomato plants. I don't get it. PPM is around 2500 and heavily weighted toward phosphorus and potassium. But what was left of its leaves were stretched toward the light and not drooping at all. Maybe there was something in the rockwool it didn't like, and it recovered when I pulled that stuff off.

So I rescued it, chopped off the dead branches, and moved it into its own container. Since yesterday it's grown half an inch. It's an auto, so I can stick it outside to flower and pollinate itself if it herms. It will probably switch to flower in less than 3 weeks, so I'm just going to leave it in the 2" basket and one quart jar. 







I'm still a little paranoid about using the DWC bin even with all new water and the right PH, so I only moved one of the new seedlings in. It's looking lonely in there by itself in the shadow of the (planned) mother plant.


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## SubmarineGirl (Mar 21, 2022)

I have a good feeling about that little runt


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## WeedHopper (Mar 21, 2022)

If it's an Auto it's time is running out. They only grow for so long no matter what you do. That's why cloning them is a waste of time.
Don't wanna burst anybody's bubble but I wouldn't get to excited about it getting much bigger and giving you a harvest.
As for the DWC. Just keep your pH between 5.5 and 5.8 and you will be fine. Make sure you keep your solution temp 75 and below. Warm water is not good in a DWC. I use to have to use frozen water bottles to keep my temps down because I didn't have a chiller


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 21, 2022)

WeedHopper said:


> If it's an Auto it's time is running out. They only grow for so long no matter what you do. That's why cloning them is a waste of time.
> Don't wanna burst anybody's bubble but I wouldn't get to excited about it getting much bigger and giving you a harvest.
> As for the DWC. Just keep your pH between 5.5 and 5.8 and you will be fine. Make sure you keep your solution temp 75 and below. Warm water is not good in a DWC. I use to have to use frozen water bottles to keep my temps down because I didn't have a chiller



I badly abused two of its seed siblings in the last/first grow, and managed to get maybe 1.5 ounces from them in the end. I would be happy with that, but mostly just keeping it alive because my wife likes it. 

In the DWC I was told PH of 6.5 is for seedlings?? It was at 5.8 when the runt started dying.

I have a chiller, but haven't needed it yet. There's no A/C in the room, so I expect to need it by the spring. There's also a fridge on the other side of the wall. I have been thinking about seeing if keeping the air pump in there would work instead of using the chiller. No practical reason for trying it, just my engineer's compulsion for doing things differently.


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## WeedHopper (Mar 21, 2022)

The 5.8 had nothing to do with the seedling problem. I have grown in DWCs many times. Never had a seedling die and I always kept my solution between 5.5 and 5.8.
Were you feeding them at the time?


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 21, 2022)

A little Cal-mag and hydroguard if I remember right. I don't think I added anything else other than vinegar to get the PH down.


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## Hippie420 (Mar 21, 2022)

I use a product called Milkstone remover. You buy it from the local farm store (TSC around here). It's used for cleaning milking equipment, and it's phosphoric acid, the same acid in your Coke. The stuff looks just like the PH down you buy at the local grow shop, but it's half the price and a tad stronger.
To raise PH, I use NaHCO3, which is the fancy name for good ole Arm & Hammer baking soda. A pinch goes a long way.


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 22, 2022)

They seem happy after 24 hours in the hydroton. Only difference from the one that (almost) died is I'm using root riot plugs instead of rockwool, and there are six plants instead of one. Oh, and these are auto GSC instead of (I think) "early miss auto". I'm having some heat problems in the bloom tent and didn't think I could keep it cool in the summer,  so I went with autos outside the tent. I'm just relieved they aren't falling over like the last one.


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 25, 2022)

The new seedlings are doing the exact same thing as the first one. Not sure what I'm doing wrong. The water is 5.9-ish with just some calmag and hydro guard, 69 deg and just touching the baskets. I dumped the media out of one this morning, and the roots were clean but not much longer than when I transplanted. The seedling I rescued has grown more root in the same amount of time, and it's leaves are not yellowing.






I did have a weird issue yesterday. Overnight the PH had gone from 5.9 to 7.8 with the temperature staying a constant 70 deg. I adjusted back to 5.8 and went to work. It was at 7.9 when I got home. I adjusted again and two hours later it was above 7. Emptied the water and cleaned the bin and added all new back in, and now the PH isn't drifting much. Does vinegar spoil and become alkaline or something? Hasn't happened anywhere else. 

I'm hoping replacing the water will make the seedlings happy, but I dunno. If it gets much worse those seedlings are going into dirt pots, and the bin in the trash. Maybe I should just add a drain and perlite <sigh>


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## WeedHopper (Mar 25, 2022)

I always used regular PH up and PH Down. PH will drift but it shouldn't drift that much that fast.


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 25, 2022)

Tomato reservoir using the same stuff never does that. I was expecting to find a dead mouse on the bottom.


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 28, 2022)

The sick seedling/dwarf may be gone for good this time. It was growing pretty well the last several days, but this morning it was limp like it was dehydrated - in the hydroponics. I put a bok choi seedling in it's place to see if the water caused it, but the bok choi was half an inch taller when I got home from work. 

Anyway, I have several solo cups prepared for some clones I'm giving away, and moved the dying/dead seeding in to one of those. No way it will survive at this point, but I'm fascinated by its struggle. If it does live, it only has a couple of weeks left before it starts flowering, and it currently has just six gnarly leaves left. I'll be entering it in the bud of the month contest for sure : )


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## gmo (Mar 29, 2022)

@CrashMagnet hey fellow tote grower . I read through the thread and see a couple problems. No worries, get em corrected and I'm sure your future grows will be successful!
First, I see something about the solution being 2500ppm?! That is insanely high for any part of the grow! What's your starting oom before adding any nutrients to your water? At that point in the grow my nutrient solution is about 600ppm. Follow your feedchart. Speaking of, what nutrient line are you using? I use the 6 part general hydroponics flora line with the addition of hydroguard 
Second, get that hole where your air lines are running covered up. You want 0, zip, zilch light getting in to your reservoir. Algae will cause pH swings and weird issues.
Third, shoot for a reservoir temperature in the range of 62-68f. Use the chiller if you need. Putting your air pump in a fridge will help, but I'm not sure if it will get you to that range. Experiment if ya feel like it, but keep it in that range to prevent root rot --  which will also cause pH swing and other issues.
Feel free to read through my past grow journals in the grow journal section of the forums. I've been growing in dwc/aero for a while now with great success. I absolutely love how easy it is to manipulate and know what is going on with your plants.
Also, reach out with questions. I'd be happy to help!
One last thing -- will you please put in a vote for March Bud Picture of the Month if you haven't done so already? The contest ends in a few days and I'm trying to rally up a few more votes. A link to the contest voting thread:


			https://www.marijuanapassion.com/threads/march-2022-bud-picture-of-the-month-vote-today.80688/


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## WeedHopper (Mar 29, 2022)

You can also use frozen water bottles to keep your solution temps down.


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 29, 2022)

gmo said:


> @CrashMagnet hey fellow tote grower . I read through the thread and see a couple problems. No worries, get em corrected and I'm sure your future grows will be successful!
> First, I see something about the solution being 2500ppm?! That is insanely high for any part of the grow! What's your starting oom before adding any nutrients to your water? At that point in the grow my nutrient solution is about 600ppm. Follow your feedchart. Speaking of, what nutrient line are you using? I use the 6 part general hydroponics flora line with the addition of hydroguard
> Second, get that hole where your air lines are running covered up. You want 0, zip, zilch light getting in to your reservoir. Algae will cause pH swings and weird issues.
> Third, shoot for a reservoir temperature in the range of 62-68f. Use the chiller if you need. Putting your air pump in a fridge will help, but I'm not sure if it will get you to that range. Experiment if ya feel like it, but keep it in that range to prevent root rot --  which will also cause pH swing and other issues.
> ...



Hey @gmo thanks for the info and the thoughtful post. All this stuff is pretty new to me, so of course I'm over engineering it. I've been surfing your grow journals already, and still trying to get my grow environment under control.

The PPM of 2500 was actually for my tomato dutch bucket. They were growing too fast and I was running out of room, so I over fed them phosphorous and potassium to force them to bloom early. As soon as I saw flowers I backed off the feeding. PPM is around 1200 now, and fairly balanced based on the GH feeding chart.






The algae is loving the water I'm giving it! I need to cover the perlite with foil to kill that stuff, but the bin is against two walls with some gym equipment blocking the other side. It's hard enough just getting in there to prune the lower branches. Once the weather lets me move them outside, I will take care of that algae.

I'm using the 3 part GH nutrients with added cal-mag and hydro guard. The water in the DWC bin comes out of the tap at around 200 PPM, and the added nutrients bring it up to around 700-750 PPM.

Thanks for reminding me about covering the slot for the air adjusters. I had to go out and fix that before I replied!






There's still a little yellow left in some of the leaves from my screw up with the vinegar, and the one on the left without a visible number was the first one I put in and has two leaves seriously bent down. But they all seem healthy otherwise. New growth is all dark green, with just a little tip burn.

I was hoping I could get away with water at 70-72 deg. I can maintain that without a chiller, but not 68. Water bottles melt way too fast for me to keep doing that every day. I will setup the chiller soon. 

I did cast my vote earlier. Looks like I picked the winner : )


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 30, 2022)

Sorry for the long post. I'm stoned...

Ha, my little runt has recovered yet again. It's still a little droopy, but getting stronger in its new solo cup home. Seems like it gets sick whenever I leave it in the same pot for too long. And it's flowering! I thought I had two or three more weeks, but it's starting now. 










I also transplanted a couple of clones this morning. I was planning on giving them to my brother who is in town for a few days. But when I got home from work...






No more keeping clones in the dark! That IS a female, yes?






If not, I'm going to be putting a cooler over the two for 12 hours a day to see what their offspring look like. White Widow and early Miss. You can tell they like each other...


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 31, 2022)

It's getting crowded in the grow room, but the chiller is up and working! I really didn't want to run the hoses through the top, but the alternative would have been to remove the frame after draining out much of the water. 

Wish I had done this in the beginning. It would have saved a lot of work! It went from 72 deg to 68 deg in under 45 minutes with the room at 81 degrees. My only complaint is the display on the thing is green (my wife tells me) which is invisible to my eyes. I have to take a pic with my phone and convert it to black and white to read it. 

And pay no mind to the mother plant in the back. She's still sulking over the flushing she got yesterday.


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## gmo (Mar 31, 2022)

Fantastic!  I'm glad to you got the chiller up and running.  Even though it was a hassle, it'll be so worth it in the end!


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## CrashMagnet (Mar 31, 2022)

gmo said:


> Fantastic!  I'm glad to you got the chiller up and running.  Even though it was a hassle, it'll be so worth it in the end!



Thanks for the advise. I had been planning to ignore much higher temperatures. I found a chart of saturation levels of dissolved O2 in water based on temperatures and was surprised at the difference a few degrees make. I'm thinking I should drop it down a little lower after seeing where you are keeping yours.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 3, 2022)

The DWC plants are doing great now! Hard to believe how fast they are growing. 

I've had a series of setbacks in other areas, though. My poor dutch bucket tomatoes might be toast, or more accurately ice cubes. I put them out yesterday, and they didn't like the 45 deg overnight temperatures, even with a heated reservoir. Not too upsetting, I guess. I have other tomato plants. Might actually be a relief to be done with them. I did the dutch bucket thing mostly to see how it works. I learned a lot about what not to do : )

But the plants in the grow tent are messing with me as well. Any help on this would be much appreciated. Two of them changed overnight from having very minor tip burn to this (the yellow one came out of the bean that color, or turned shortly after).












Here is the first one from a few days ago. Just some minor tip burn.





Both are about two weeks from harvest, I think. Trying to decide if there is anything I could or should do about it. It looks like they need potassium to me. I have some water soluble potash I could mix into the water. Not sure if that's the right approach, though.

Temp is 77 to 81 depending on the light schedule. RH is kept under 45%. 

Soil is 70/30 coco and perlite with some added worm casings. 

Watering to runoff every other day now, though I haven't measured EC on the runoff. They go through the water so fast I'm considering watering every day. The dark green one is in a 3 gal pot and takes a gallon of water every other day. The yellow one in in a 7 gal pot and takes 2 gallons every other day. 

Using FF nutes and CalMag every other watering.

Mars TS3000 set around 90% when the tent is closed and max when it's open.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 3, 2022)

Oh, just for reference, here's the DWC seedlings today.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 6, 2022)

I doubt anyone is following this thread anymore, but I thought I should post an update on my sick auto seedling. She has fully recovered in her solo cup home, and is definitely flowering. 






Behind her is a clone I thought I had cut from a female WW plant, but it turned out to be from one of the males. I have three other clones just like it, though they haven't flowered.






These showed up this morning.






My understanding is if a photo period pollinates an auto, you get photo period.  Going to let it happen anyway, and see what kind of seeds I get. Probably a bunch of herms.


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## WeedHopper (Apr 7, 2022)

Yep. Hermies


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 7, 2022)

Hmm, I was joking about hermies. If that's really what I'll get, maybe I'll just toss the male. I'm mostly curious to see if this runt of an auto ever produces any real buds. It's small enough I could take it outside and plant it with the spinach and no one would notice.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 8, 2022)

Well, the thing took off last night. It's still only 4 inches tall, but there were roots sticking out of the solo cup drain holes this morning, so I moved her into this pot. I harvested one of her abused sisters in that pot a couple of months ago, and got more than an ounce from it. I'm thinking I can just stick her outside after the last cold night which should be Monday.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 9, 2022)

Arg, I was all proud of myself last night for saving my wife's favorite runt of a pot plant. Then the lights came on in the flower tent. Five days ago it was just a little tip burn, and only a couple of pants. Now all of them show it, and this one is much worse. 

I had switched to just water and cal-mag, thinking it was nutrient burn. The temperature never gets above 81 degrees, but the probe on the controller failed almost two weeks ago, and I'm running the fan at 80% 24/7 until the replacement arrives. That has put RH down in the low 30% range most nights. So maybe it's heat stress? I turned the light down to 75% last night, just in case.


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 9, 2022)

CrashMagnet said:


> Arg, I was all proud of myself last night for saving my wife's favorite runt of a pot plant. Then the lights came on in the flower tent. Five days ago it was just a little tip burn, and only a couple of pants. Now all of them show it, and this one is much worse.
> 
> I had switched to just water and cal-mag, thinking it was nutrient burn. The temperature never gets above 81 degrees, but the probe on the controller failed almost two weeks ago, and I'm running the fan at 80% 24/7 until the replacement arrives. That has put RH down in the low 30% range most nights. So maybe it's heat stress? I turned the light down to 75% last night, just in case.
> 
> View attachment 293287


What lights are you running remind me please and we’re you running them at 100% all along? and is this the runt? Can we see the other plants too with less damage?


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 9, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> What lights are you running remind me please and we’re you running them at 100% all along? and is this the runt? Can we see the other plants too with less damage?


This is the little runt I allowed to stay in the tent as long as she behaves. I couldn’t bear to leave the little thing out of the tent. Even tho it’s in the tiniest pot maybe a one gallon or smaller, and her leaves are ugly and have been her whole life so far and she doesn’t seem to thirsty and gets no special attention except a daily check for herming she still has quite a little stack of bloom on her and this bloom smells much stronger than the rest in the tent for some reason. I just happened to be all up in her business checking really close when I discovered this…my clones are starting their 5th wee of flower


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## gmo (Apr 9, 2022)

CrashMagnet said:


> Arg, I was all proud of myself last night for saving my wife's favorite runt of a pot plant. Then the lights came on in the flower tent. Five days ago it was just a little tip burn, and only a couple of pants. Now all of them show it, and this one is much worse.
> 
> I had switched to just water and cal-mag, thinking it was nutrient burn. The temperature never gets above 81 degrees, but the probe on the controller failed almost two weeks ago, and I'm running the fan at 80% 24/7 until the replacement arrives. That has put RH down in the low 30% range most nights. So maybe it's heat stress? I turned the light down to 75% last night, just in case.
> 
> View attachment 293287


That certainly looks like nutrient burn/overfeeding to me.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 9, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> What lights are you running remind me please and we’re you running them at 100% all along? and is this the runt? Can we see the other plants too with less damage?



I have a Mars TS3000 in the tent. Until I got the 6" AC Infinity fan recently I ran it at 75% when the tent was closed, because I couldn't control the temperature otherwise. I still ran it at 100% in the early evenings when I was awake and could leave the tent open.

That last image wasn't the runt. I'm not 100% sure, but it might be one of the Dismal Swamp seeds I grew. Either that or a Norther Lights, but I can't remember for sure. It's had a long life, mostly as an abused veg, both under and over watered at times.

Here's the whole crowded tent from March 26 before I got the big fan. And a recent image of the yellow one in the back with similar leaf damage. I'll try to get a decent shot of all of them tonight when the lights come on.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 9, 2022)

gmo said:


> That certainly looks like nutrient burn/overfeeding to me.


I think my mistake was to keep giving them nutrients every other watering when they started drinking their pots dry three times a week. Now I get why everyone says to measure the runoff : )


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 9, 2022)

CrashMagnet said:


> I think my mistake was to keep giving them nutrients every other watering when they started drinking their pots dry three times a week. Now I get why everyone says to measure the runoff : )


Yes maybe. Those plants take less than you think. We usually over care for them. I don’t use many nutrients in veg as I transplant them as the use up the soil nutrients just a bit of CalMag. I like to water a lot tho. Wish all my plants drank like that


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 9, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> Yes maybe. Those plants take less than you think. We usually over care for them. I don’t use many nutrients in veg as I transplant them as the use up the soil nutrients just a bit of CalMag. I like to water a lot tho. Wish all my plants drank like that



I was just making a mark on a white board every watering. The days with even marks got nutrients, the odd ones just water. It didn't really occur to me watering 3-4 times a week required a different nutrient schedule than watering once or twice a week. Seems obvious now, of course.


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 9, 2022)

CrashMagnet said:


> I was just making a mark on a white board every watering. The days with even marks got nutrients, the odd ones just water. It didn't really occur to me watering 3-4 times a week required a different nutrient schedule than watering once or twice a week. Seems obvious now, of course.


Well I’m glad you’re learning. Like me we learn by our mistakes. Looks like you can recover tho


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 9, 2022)

Cal Mag deficiency maybe? Look on growweedeasy. They have pics of plants with different deficiencies. The pics I saw seemed like cal mag problem to me….


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 9, 2022)

oldfogey8 said:


> Cal Mag deficiency maybe? Look on growweedeasy. They have pics of plants with different deficiencies. The pics I saw seemed like cal mag problem to me….


It could be, but I give them cal mag even on water only days.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 9, 2022)

So here's the whole mess. It's difficult to get a good view of the tent while surrounded by Girl Scout Cookies - they are starting to flower already, too.






Lots of coco-perlite mix.






The one I posted earlier is even worse tonight. Soil still too wet to water. Also note the curling leaves on the one bottom right.






And "Miss Yellow" is looking worse as well.






So more cal mag and less everything else?


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 15, 2022)

I got ambitious a couple of days ago and put a tray under the one with the most nutrient burn so I could collect some runoff. PH was ~5.9, not much different from the water. But PPM was over 3500 (I know). 

When the lights came on tonight I took it outside and sat it on an inverted bucket, then got the hose and ran water through it for close to 15 minutes. When it was over the run off PPM was still over 900, so I flushed it for another 10 minutes and got it down to 600. 

If it recovers over the weekend, I think I will do the same with the other plants, since they were on the same feeding schedule. It seems happier to me, even though it's only been a few hours. Vodka at dinner really tunes you in to plant feelings, especially when you have three of them (vodka shots, not plants)  : )


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 16, 2022)

So far, so good. It wasn't even drooping this morning. The light had just gone off when I went out for a look, so I just glanced at it and zipped up the tent. 

Here is the sick runt that started this thread. It developed some nitrogen burn when I re-potted it in Happy Frog. It gets nothing but water from me, and has been problem free until now. It's at least something I know how to address. I'm determined to keep this thing alive until harvest time.


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## SubmarineGirl (Apr 16, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> This is the little runt I allowed to stay in the tent as long as she behaves. I couldn’t bear to leave the little thing out of the tent. Even tho it’s in the tiniest pot maybe a one gallon or smaller, and her leaves are ugly and have been her whole life so far and she doesn’t seem to thirsty and gets no special attention except a daily check for herming she still has quite a little stack of bloom on her and this bloom smells much stronger than the rest in the tent for some reason. I just happened to be all up in her business checking really close when I discovered this…my clones are starting their 5th wee of flower View attachment 293289


I ended up taking her out of he tent and chopping her up in a salad as I was afraid she was taking on to much stress and it was causing me stress checking her twice a day for balls.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 16, 2022)

I guess I should have started this thread in the grow journal forum. I didn't think at the time I would be posting much. Now every time a fly lands on a leaf I want to take a picture and post it! Might as well keep it all in one thread, though. 

My GSC's spread out more than I anticipated. Changing the nutes today was a real challenge. I hope I can simplify that process before the next grow. I've already given up on pruning for the day. They will get a more thorough Easter trimming.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 16, 2022)

SubmarineGirl said:


> I ended up taking her out of he tent and chopping her up in a salad as I was afraid she was taking on to much stress and it was causing me stress checking her twice a day for balls.


I would have done the same if my wife didn't want me to keep it. It's still the first plant I check in the morning, like it's a sick child.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 20, 2022)

Believe it or not, I got a trash bag full of trimmings from this mess yesterday. Looks like a scene from Predator. I have to stick my face in the foilage just to check the water level. Have to fix that on the next grow. 

A hand full of leaves showing calcium deficiency or "PH fluctuations". No idea why. The PH barely moves from the 5.8 I get just by adding nutes, and I'm using double the cal-mag recommended.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 20, 2022)

Then there is this little one. Same seeds, same nutes, same light, everything. But it's 1/4 the size of its sisters. Early on I was swapping positions in the DWC to try to keep them all the same, swapping positions with the smallest and biggest plants, etc. This one just crouches in the corner and hardly grows at all. It's roots are much larger than any of the others, though. Go figure.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 20, 2022)

Oh yeah, this is from my mother plant. Maybe one leaf in 25 looks like this. I know, more cal-mag, but I already give everything double the recommended amount. I'm starting to suspect there is another reason for calcium deficiency that has nothing to do with nutrient level. Thinking I will start giving it water at PH 6.5 for a while to see if that corrects the problem. The 5.8 I usually adjust to is not so good for calcium uptake.


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 21, 2022)

I don’t know much about DWC growing but could it be a problem with the roots due to temperature or oxygenation of the root zone? If your reservoir feeds other plants without similar issues, temperature is probably not the issue. A larger plant would likely have a larger root ball and need more oxygen I would think. Clogged air stones maybe? If the roots were healthy and taking up nutrients well, doubling the concentration of nutrients should give you signs of nutrient toxicity. Again, I don’t know much about DWC. Just trying to spitball some ideas.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 21, 2022)

oldfogey8 said:


> I don’t know much about DWC growing but could it be a problem with the roots due to temperature or oxygenation of the root zone? If your reservoir feeds other plants without similar issues, temperature is probably not the issue. A larger plant would likely have a larger root ball and need more oxygen I would think. Clogged air stones maybe? If the roots were healthy and taking up nutrients well, doubling the concentration of nutrients should give you signs of nutrient toxicity. Again, I don’t know much about DWC. Just trying to spitball some ideas.



That one leaf is from a mother plant growing in Happy Frog. I cut them off and it looks fine for a couple of weeks, then they show up again. 

Good idea on the air stones, though. I used cheap ones, and I haven't checked them since the DWC bin became a jungle on top. The roots are all tied together making it difficult to raise the baskets very high, but maybe I can raise the lid up enough to take a look. I keep getting a couple of leaves per plant showing some calcium deficiency, even though I have extra cal-mag in there. Not sure if lack of air would cause the same thing, but it's worth checking. 

Reservoir temperature is kept constant at 66 degrees. So if it's a reservoir problem it has to be air flow.


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 21, 2022)

CrashMagnet said:


> That one leaf is from a mother plant growing in Happy Frog. I cut them off and it looks fine for a couple of weeks, then they show up again.
> 
> Good idea on the air stones, though. I used cheap ones, and I haven't checked them since the DWC bin became a jungle on top. The roots are all tied together making it difficult to raise the baskets very high, but maybe I can raise the lid up enough to take a look. I keep getting a couple of leaves per plant showing some calcium deficiency, even though I have extra cal-mag in there. Not sure if lack of air would cause the same thing, but it's worth checking.
> 
> Reservoir temperature is kept constant at 66 degrees. So if it's a reservoir problem it has to be air flow.


That’s what I figured since it sounds like you are running other containers and they are not seeing the same issue. Could the root ball have encased the air stones maybe? I know roots grow towards water in soil and can ruin sewer pipes but maybe in hydroponics, roots seek our oxygen. Again, no experience in DWC but I used to troubleshoot complex systems where I had to look at the system as a whole and figure out what module was causing problems. Hopefully you get to the bottom of it. That is a MILG(mother I’d like to grow)….


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 21, 2022)

oldfogey8 said:


> That’s what I figured since it sounds like you are running other containers and they are not seeing the same issue. Could the root ball have encased the air stones maybe? I know roots grow towards water in soil and can ruin sewer pipes but maybe in hydroponics, roots seek our oxygen. Again, no experience in DWC but I used to troubleshoot complex systems where I had to look at the system as a whole and figure out what module was causing problems. Hopefully you get to the bottom of it. That is a MILG(mother I’d like to grow)….


I do need to pry up the top and take a look at those stones. I can always stick another set of air hoses it if the roots have kidnapped the others. From what I can see through the access port I use to change the water, the roots are pretty massive and tangled with one another.


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 21, 2022)

It's definitely nothing to do with the air stones. There are 8 stones and all seem to be working well. The dark areas of the roots are just shadow where the flashlight isn't hitting. They are all very white and healthy looking. Wonder if they would make good spaghetti : )


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## oldfogey8 (Apr 21, 2022)

I have tried cannabis root. It is not like spaghetti. It is awful…


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 21, 2022)

Update on my runt. From march 19 to today here's the transition...

March 19





April 21





It was a lot of work for the tiny buds I'm probably going to get, but it did survive to flower. Next time I will take everyone's advise and toss it before I show it to my wife!


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## CrashMagnet (Apr 22, 2022)

I wish I had kept track of what strains I was growing. I just had so many seedling die on me early on I stopped paying much attention to what seed went where. Now these two can be Alien OG, Blueberry or White Widow. 






I have one I know is a blueberry, and these look nothing like it, so I'm guessing the larger one is the Alien OG and the smaller one White Widow. I have some still in flower I know are Alien OG, and the taller one looks just like them. So the smaller on must be a White Widow. I did flip it pretty young.

I wouldn't really care, except the male I thought was a White Widow was really an Alien OG, and it pollinated the little one. I have 28 mature seeds from it. I think I'll call them Alien Widow seeds for now. I want to grow a couple just to see how they do, but won't make any more seeds without knowing exactly what they are. Oh Well...

From now on, tags for every plant!


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