# Raccoon Killing Time!



## The Effen Gee (Jul 3, 2009)

So I have this Koi pond, well...had.

A raccoon has now, in two seperate trips eaten ALL my Koi. Some I have had for years.
The simple fact he has come back three times is mindboggling, when you take into account I have already shot this animal...twice, confirmed.

I even lost track of his blood trail two nights ago after putting TWO rounds into this animal.

People have cats here and I enjoy having fish. Raccoons are overpopulated and highly aggressive towards other animals and people.

I have also lessenes the squirrel population arnoud these parts as well, strangely there are more birds around this year...

So...

What is the best way to bait a raccoon. 
I own a crossman g1 extreme pellet rifle that puts rounds clean through a squirrel. 
Entry and exit. About the size of a dime on the exit. 

One shot, one kill.

Yet this scavenger, whose body mass is twice that of the biggest cat I have seen, took TWO of them and ran off, only to return and finish cleaning out my pond.

I am angry to say the least. 

I really want to jump out of my walnut tree, tackle and knife to death this animal with my bear hands.

..I will settle for a "Quiet" kill.


Any recommendations?
































What is the best wat to bait,


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## dman1234 (Jul 3, 2009)

get pirhaunna's


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## kaotik (Jul 3, 2009)

you don't know anyone with a little 22 or anything eh?
pellets will not kill a coon, not without a perfect shot anyway. obviously this thing is tough, and at twice the size of a usual cat i think you may need something bigger.. well to humanely kill it anyway. sounds like you're only hope with pellets is to make it bleed to death, that's just kind of cruel.


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 3, 2009)

Damn, I remember losing all my fish to a Heron.

You could try to poison it.

You could try to trap it.

Or you could stop playing with pellet guns and use a 12 gauge.

The problem with poison is its inhumane and not guaranteed to be eated by the raccoon but could be eaten by a pet.

I understand your loss, I lost about £300 of fish.

I filled the pond in and built a greenhouse on top of it, the greenhouse is still in use today :hubba: 

Vermin is vermin, no getting away from it.


eace:


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## kaotik (Jul 3, 2009)

12 gauge  lol  if you don't mind pellets in your koi.
a 308 would rip it apart just as well


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## SherwoodForest (Jul 3, 2009)

Hot dogs and dog food kibbles will get him to come right up and eat out of your hand, then blast that sucker with a rock. While he is stunned, get him in a choke hold and slice his throat from ear to ear til his head falls off. I had huge koi fish and battled with coons each year. I was able to keep the big birds away using a stone statue of a Heron. It also helps to make your pond 5 feet deep or more. Man I was a koi pond building some ***** years ago, took me two weeks to dig my 10,000 gallon pond but what a beauty! Post some pics of your pond and fish, love to see them.


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 3, 2009)

SherwoodForest said:
			
		

> Hot dogs and dog food kibbles will get him to come right up and eat out of your hand, then blast that sucker with a rock. ....



Not a bad idea, Sherwood, but it will be more fun to shoot it .  I'm partial to the 12 gauge mentioned by HIE above, but a cheap .22 caliber rifle will do the job quieter and cleaner .  You can buy a cheap .22 at WallyMart


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## Rockster (Jul 3, 2009)

Please stop shooting at animals with inadequate weaponry.

I understand you wanting to protect your Koi carp but wounding an animal for doing it's thing is not good karma now is it?

Is netting at all possible and have you asked pro's for advice on this so you can enjoy your fish in peace without hi powered weaponry in the equation?


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 3, 2009)

Enjoy what fish?



> eaten ALL my Koi



Its payback time :hairpull: 

A net is not going to stop something the size of a small dog.

If it is brave enough to come into a garden and ravish a pond, it wont be long before its into the trash can then into the home.

eace:


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 3, 2009)

Stop picking on my pellet gun!

I live in dense, urban/sprawl. Firearms are not a great idea for me to use, especially since the police station is three blocks down the street from my house.

Poisoning is too mean, I THOUGHT that I could get a quick kill with this rifle, as it is scoped and has a muzzle velocity of 1000+fps. 

I _assumed_ it would do the trick. Perhaps the Gamo hunting pellets I got are not as good as I thought, even though they advertised small game including raccoons. 

Serously, if location allowed I would have ended this with the first shot, the first time.
Although I feel bad about wounding this animal, I an not cruel, I am simply amazed "it" came back for seconds.

...after I shot...and chased him. 
It got a good look at me too. 

Netting would work, but I have decided to keep my pond fish-free for now. 
Possibly until I move, so I can just redo the whole damn thing. 

...If I DO get this animal, nothing will go to waste. Promise.

I also promise to do it as humanely as possible, unless I have to tackle the noctournal scavenger, then he gets knifed.


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 3, 2009)

That fps will kill it if you do a head or neck shot, its body mass will absorb the power on a body shot.

eace:


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 3, 2009)

Thats what I thought. 

I am sure that my scope is off by a bit, that would explain the body hits as opposed to head/neck. 

Make no mistake folks, I am familiar with guns and am a better than decent shot. 

Not all of us are gun hating homosexuals out here who wear peta shirts and eat tofu.

I LOVE to go shooting. Not really hunting, mostly range targets.

Full torso silhouettes are my faveo.


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## AcesUp (Jul 3, 2009)

I have built about 30 ponds. The way we "protect the koi" is to install a "cave" in the pond. As long as the fish have a place to hide they seem to be ok. All we do is take a piece of corrugated drainage pipe (appropriate size for the pond - usually 12" diamater or larger) cut it in half down the length and set it on the bottom with the arch up. then we conceal it with rocks and stones to hide it. Hope this helps.


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## mrkingford (Jul 3, 2009)

Last year my wife spotted a racoon mama and her baby climbing up my deck posts and going through trash bags and eating plants and making a mess.
Well this sucker is here again this year. Last week i heard it on the deck at 1am and went for my bb rifle and then after seeing this behemouth i went for my .380, my wife grabs me and says, " that's mean " but i continue and then she uses reason and says " that will make enough noise to wake the neighbors and call the police and your growing ", ok, so women are smarted then men often enough, so i go back to the bb gun and she gets 2 pots and bangs them together and chases it off the deck, i run out back with my dog ( in the pic, a 121lb. Pittbull) in the dark and all i hear is it russleing through the woods, so i give up, for now..................SOB.


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## phatpharmer (Jul 3, 2009)

I'm against killing all animals, call me a wimp!LOL But I just can't stand to think that some poor little animal is suffering!


                                           Phatpharmer


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 3, 2009)

phatpharmer said:
			
		

> I'm against killing all animals, call me a wimp!LOL But I just can't stand to think that some poor little animal is suffering!
> 
> 
> Phatpharmer



That's why I need to adjust my scope. 1k fps is pretty fast. 

A human could not take two rounds and continue.
I wonder if there is a chance the animal id rabid?
Would it have been ore aggressive towards me?

Anyone dealt with rabid animals?


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 3, 2009)

AcesUp said:
			
		

> I have built about 30 ponds. The way we "protect the koi" is to install a "cave" in the pond. As long as the fish have a place to hide they seem to be ok. All we do is take a piece of corrugated drainage pipe (appropriate size for the pond - usually 12" diamater or larger) cut it in half down the length and set it on the bottom with the arch up. then we conceal it with rocks and stones to hide it. Hope this helps.



That is a good idea.

I thought a cinderblock would work, along with a pile of river rocks which formed caves.

Those were all over the place this morning. 
It even ripped out the filter assembly. 

There are claw marks everywhere and my pond water smells really bad.

I guess i will put it on my outdoor plants. They might love it.


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## SmokinMom (Jul 3, 2009)

Can you make some sort of cover out of chicken wire or something?

It wouldnt be that pretty, but you could remove it when your actually out enjoying your fish.

Anyhoo just a thought.


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## SPEARCHUCKER (Jul 3, 2009)

All a pellet gun will do is piss it off. Kinda surprised it actually broke skin. With that fur and thick hide.

When I was a kid, I had this kids Bow. Bout 20lb bow lol. I saw this raccoon out in the woods. Ran out with my little bow and arrows. Shot the thing dead square in its side. 
Well the arrow bounced off him. And the race was on. I was flyin to the house, raccoon hot on my tail. He was pissed.

Now though, I have a few farms around me. One of the people catches them in live traps and takes them to a new area and drops them off. Just cause its funnier to make your problem, someone elses.


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## thedonofchronic (Jul 3, 2009)

phatpharmer said:
			
		

> I'm against killing all animals, call me a wimp!LOL But I just can't stand to think that some poor little animal is suffering!
> 
> 
> Phatpharmer


 
i feel the same way, maybe its just us ontarians 
dont get me wrong, i get real furious when i hear them outside my
bedroom window at night hitting down my garbage cans and feasting..
but theyre just trying to stay alive. i just give em a little "shoo"


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## SPEARCHUCKER (Jul 3, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> That's why I need to adjust my scope. 1k fps is pretty fast.
> 
> A human could not take two rounds and continue.
> I wonder if there is a chance the animal id rabid?
> ...



Ill tell you now he doesnt have rabies. He can catch fish, and know to run from humans. If he wasnt acting normal, then he would have it. Like if he ran crooked and stumbling.

And 1k isnt that fast. Unless you can get within 20 feet of him. I wouldnt recommend you keep shooting the animal. Just going to get little pellets lodged under his skin, making him suffer bad. Cause I doubt 1k could break bones enough to get in and kill him. Pellet guns are not ment for that sized animals, it wont penetrate its skull, and it wont break ribs enough to get in and kill him from a distance.


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## Bobo (Jul 3, 2009)

I feel for ur delema. We had to put a coon down a few weeks ago with distemper wouldnt leave the house and was 1 mad lil bastsrd. Im not gonna bang on ur pellet gun but but ur seriosly under armed we cought ours in a live trap with a dgood old pb&J and called DNR. They told us we wasnt allowed to shoot it so they sent the shariff who shot it with 00/ buck and the thing looked at him like he was retarded I laughed in amazment. After the second shot it wasnt moving to well but was still kicking and not happy with us then came the shovel of decapition from the shed when we found out it couldnt run up or legs and finnished the job. Now i dont beleive in being crule to animals but these little bastards are tanks on 4 legs and as crual as it looks i think the shovle is the only way but if u can get it into a live trap put ur pellet gun through the bars and shoot it through the eye first


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 3, 2009)

The gun is retired for this operation.

Looks like I might get my hands dirty. Time to make a tree perch.

The loss of my fish I can deal with, as I have waay too many as it is.
I am doing this because there are a lot of really cool cats in my neighborhood and I would hate to see any of them get mauled by a raccoon.


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## Hick (Jul 3, 2009)

> Not all of us are gun hating homosexuals out here who wear peta shirts and eat tofu.


... Oh comon' now.. we both know that ain't true!   
.. but back to your immediate problem  hee hee   once a 'coon finds a food source they are tenacious.. they are intelligent.. and that have that 'thumb'  . but what you may be dealing with is a family or multiple coons. IME even a 177 pellet @ 1000 fps in the body cavity "should" have proved fatal.. or at least made him "reeeally" sick   
I've dispatched dozens w/ a 22 @ 1100 fps. 
  They LUV sardines...


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 3, 2009)

thedonofchronic said:
			
		

> i feel the same way, maybe its just us ontarians
> dont get me wrong, i get real furious when i hear them outside my
> bedroom window at night hitting down my garbage cans and feasting..
> but theyre just trying to stay alive. i just give em a little "shoo"



The only thing that's for certain when it comes to raccoons is a small problem will quickly grow into a large problem


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## Sir_Tokie (Jul 3, 2009)

Get a .22 rifle with a scope sight it in to dead bulls-eye at 25 yards. Now take a small mag light(flash light) and tape it to the bottom side of your rifle barrel. Then take a Mt Dew 20 oz plastic bottle and slip it over the end of your rifle barrel, tape the bottle to the barrel. Wait till dark, set up on him/her when you see it turn the light on point into it's eyes, this will cause the animal to be blind for a few seconds and pause, then take your shot. The green from the bottle will reduce the muzzle flash and the bottle will act as a silencer (a must for suburban areas). Or use a live trap with sardines catch him/her and take to country and release or call animal control. I have done all 3 and they all work. But you'll have to do something because once they find a food source getting rid of the food source or getting rid of them is your only option. Also when a pellet gun is stating FPS that is max velocity at point blank range, and point blank range is only 3 feet. So to  get your 1000 FPS you would need to be 3 foot or closer, past that the pellet starts to loose speed as gravity and friction take over...take care..


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 7, 2009)

Update:

Raccoon has killed the survivors. Returned the next few nights to completely destroy my pond. Ripped the filter assembly OUT.

...So I hid.

I hid on top of the overgrown dog kennel. I hid for HOURS.

I watched the bait. Unwavering.

When he came into view, put his head in the jar for a sniff...

....I put a .177 brass coated pellet direclty through his left eye. He jumped and spun. One of those shots that almost brings tears to your eyes it was so money.
By the time he hit the ground, I was on him...knife out.

5 seconds it was over. Start to finish.
He must have been three times the size of a morbidly obese cat.

Huge claws, huge teeth.

I would have called animal control, but I have six foot tall pot plants in my yard.

He is being prepped at the local taxidermist. New coatrack.







Fishies, you have been avenged.
Neighborhood cat's, you are safe again.

...for now.


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## Sir_Tokie (Jul 7, 2009)

That's  1 down and most likely a few more to go, good luck with them and sorry to hear about your pond and fish. Sounds like he has hit up a few ponds to have grown that large though...take care..


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## leafminer (Jul 7, 2009)

Good that you got him.
I was going to recommend making a quarter ounce of fulminate of mercury and hiding the package in a sardine.


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 7, 2009)

Nice shootin', Dead Eye


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## BBFan (Jul 7, 2009)

:rofl: :rofl: 
Great story Effen.  I was sorry to see it end.  A real cliff hanger.

Tell me another story, please?


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## mrkingford (Jul 7, 2009)

LOL, i almost wet myself, lol.
Great story...................Please post the ugly ba*****s pic when you get him back.  
Also, use his eye socket as an ash tray for futher revenge.

I can't wait to get the one on my deck.


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## TURKEYNECK (Jul 7, 2009)

Coons LOVE anything shiny, and as hick said..sardines.. what you need is a trap, down here animal control will let you borrow one.. some aluminum foil and a can of tuna or sardines.. will guarantee a catch


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## mrkingford (Jul 7, 2009)

TURKEYNECK said:
			
		

> Coons LOVE anything shiny, and as hick said..sardines.. what you need is a trap, down here animal control will let you borrow one.. some aluminum foil and a can of tuna or sardines.. will guarantee a catch


 

ima goin shoppin


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## TURKEYNECK (Jul 7, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> ima goin shoppin


 
there ya go buddy! makin a hat aye? Not many folks eat coon down here, ......just possum


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## nvthis (Jul 7, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> Update:
> 
> Raccoon has killed the survivors. Returned the next few nights to completely destroy my pond. Ripped the filter assembly OUT.
> 
> ...


 

:rofl: Brutal. Effen, you are an animal, man!! I love it...   

If you ever get the chance...:  I picked up a J.C. Higgins Sears, Roebuck & Co. for $50 from an old man when we were working on his house. It is a single shot bolt action .22 that shoots CB rounds. I'll bet it is even quieter than your pellet gun!  It's a real quiet killer when it comes to the smaller side of the animal kingdom. Perfect for urban warfare.


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## TURKEYNECK (Jul 7, 2009)

You could also find a .17 guage.. extremely accurate and like a pop-gun
..If it's the kill yer after


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## Growdude (Jul 7, 2009)

Do you have the Gamo CFX single cock spring gun?

Mine is dead on and deadly.


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 8, 2009)

I have a g1 extreme that has been modified. 

Single side ris system with a laser designator.


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## Tater (Jul 8, 2009)

I have plans in the making at the moment with my brother to try to spear a bear.  If you have any more problems maybe that would be a quiet and intimate way to deal with the bastids.  Our plan is to set out a bait barrel and then build a tree stand above it then stab the bear to death with a big spear.  Should be fun.  My bro is just looking into the legality of it all atm.


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 8, 2009)

I am always down for the Arnold style.

Shirtless, mud painted. 
"Come on! Kill me now!"


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## mrkingford (Jul 8, 2009)

TURKEYNECK said:
			
		

> there ya go buddy! makin a hat aye? Not many folks eat coon down here, ......just possum


 
Lol, he climbs up my deck and knocks over the trash cans and makes a HUGE disgusting mess several times a week.
I would love to catch him.

I have several weapons, but all are to large caliber to shoot that close to the house, except my .380.
I think i still have 1 or 2 bb guns in the garage that were my sons, hiimmm, i'll check later.
I actually wanted to trap him and take him to a nice lake with woods around it but traps are like $ 30.00 at least and a single round of .380 is only like .15 cents.       

Funny, he must not like the rain cause he almost never comes when it rains, and it's been raining everyday except 3 since 6/1, including now as i'm typing.

Thank's for the tip Turkey.................

Hey,   EFFIN GEE.                 
           how much did it cost to stuff????


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## Budders Keeper (Jul 8, 2009)

I had a buddy lose a few very expensive coy to coons. He put a little electric fence with wire at 4in and 8in and he hasn't seen them since. He did however hear some crazy noises for a few nights he said.


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## PencilHead (Jul 8, 2009)

Sounds like a lotta fun, but coons are probably the #1 carrier of rabies, so be carefull out there.

I've got an 85 pound Rottie/Black Mouth Cur cross that doesn't tolerate four leggers in her yard.  By the time I realize there's a problem back there all I need is a shovel.


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## cubby (Jul 8, 2009)

Two years ago I was sitting on my back deck smoking a bowl and heard this scurrying sound and assumed it was my niehbors little dog (very wierd animal) Until I heard a crash on my deck. I turned on the lights and drew back the shade cloth curtain and there on my deck were 4 large racoons. At first I "shooed" them as was suggested earlier, they just looked at me unfazed. I picked up a fire-place poker I use for the BBQ and waved it at them, no response so I sprayed them with the garden hose, they ran under my deck. When I came out the next day my deck was a mess. They had returned in the night and knocked over several plant pots and even untied some of the hanging plant holders. I was so p.o.ed I bought myself a high power pellet gunnand waited for them to come back, sure enough that same night they showed up, when I flipped on the deck lights the closest one to me just stood on his back feet and waved his front paws at me like I was the intruder. I shot him smack dab in the center of his chest, he let out a squeel and ran to the other end of the deck where he got tangled in the shade cloth and died. His three little friends scurried up the fence over the garage and have never come back. I don't know if raccoons have a memory that tells them where to stay away from or not but they havent been back to my propertie. If they were'nt so destructive they would be more than welcome. I have tons of bunnies living under my deck but they have never been a problem as far as my gardens or anything so they can stay. Stray cats on the other hand, I catch in a live trap, bring them home and tell thier owners keep them off my propertie, if they come back a second time they go the way of the raccoon. I won't abide some cat using my veggie garden as an auxilliary litter box or killing the bunnies. Thier called "house cats" for a reason, keep them in your house.


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## mrkingford (Jul 8, 2009)

PencilHead said:
			
		

> Sounds like a lotta fun, but coons are probably the #1 carrier of rabies, so be carefull out there.
> 
> I've got an 85 pound Rottie/Black Mouth Cur cross that doesn't tolerate four leggers in her yard. By the time I realize there's a problem back there all I need is a shovel.


 

He sounds like a good dog.
I have an American Pitt Bull Terrier 3rd generation, he's 121 lbs. and is extremely dominate.
IF my dog caught him it would'nt be pretty.
I guess thats why it only comes at night?


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## SPEARCHUCKER (Jul 8, 2009)

Thread kinda reminds me of that movie Harlem Nights.
When Arsenio and another guy are firing off machine guns and heavy stuff. Then the 3rd guy pulls out his little pop gun when they are done firing with the little "bang bang".
And Arsenio starts screaming. "Put that little @#$%#$% away! Dont be shootin off that little @#$%@#$%!"


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 8, 2009)

So...

Last night at about two, I am outside smoking my night cap.
As I walk back tothe front door I see this blur on the fence in front of me. I realize this grey blur is possible the king of the local raccoon gang. Made the one I shot seem like a child. 

So he sees me, makes his way slowly up the tree. stops at about my head level and just looks at me. 

So I get my gun and a shovel.

I shot him right in the neck. Seemed to me like the round about bounced off his skin.

He moves up the tree and sits there....looking at me.
I am making allkinds of hissing and pissed of animal noises and my cat is watching through my security door.

I shot at this thing three more times, using my mounted light to get some glint from his retnas so I have some kind of target.

No dice.

So I hid...for HOURS.

Finally when the sun came up I decided to go to bed.

Poison, no. High caliber or firearms...no.

Sardines worked in a glass mason jar as a shot trap, but I have no cage and this guy is big.

If he comes back tonight, I will get him with my mitts again if i have to.







There, the story continues.


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## SherwoodForest (Jul 8, 2009)

Tat's some crazy stuff man, haha.


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## mrkingford (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok, i found the bb gun my wife hid from me a couple weeks ago in the garage. Now i need to go buy pointed tip rounds. I already got tuna and a roll of tin foil, i'm gonna get him soon, hehe.


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## SPEARCHUCKER (Jul 8, 2009)

What I use to do with the kids pellet guns is cut welding rods into like 3/4 inch pieces and sharpen the ends. Could sink them like that into an Oak or anything. Extra weight and the tip give it alot more velocity.
Can go to like AutoZone, Lowes, or pretty much anywhere and grab a small pack of rods.

Cant call someone with something bigger to take care of the bigger raccoon though?
I got 2 neighbors that call me every time theirs a noise in the bushes.
1 time though one of them called about some "doggies" in her yard. So I went on over. Wasnt no little "doggies" like I was expectin. Was a couple huge pits that had broke loose from down the street. 
First shot. From out the truck window. Let me tell ya, nothing quite rings the skull like firing off some 00buck from out the cab of a truck. lol 
Felt like I had been spinning in a circle for an hour.


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## tcbud (Jul 8, 2009)

:rofl: 





			
				mrkingford said:
			
		

> LOL, i almost wet myself, lol.
> Great story...................Please post the ugly ba*****s pic when you get him back.
> Also, use his eye socket as an ash tray for futher revenge.
> 
> I can't wait to get the one on my deck.


 
my thots exactly, well, not quite exactly....


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 8, 2009)

After this string of encounters with raccoons, I strongly recommend AGAINST using anything less than a .22 cal or bigger. 

If I had my old compound, no issues whatsoever. I traded it for a bike years ago.

If you DO use an air rifle this is what I have learned:

1. Make sure your gun is accurate, you have a good target and you can get off more than one shot. Unless he rears up or you have target on his underside...useless. I was laying on the ground ten feet from the one I shot...for HOURS. I got lucky the first time.

2. If you go for a head shot, good luck. These guys have TINY heads in relation to the body size. I have never seen a raccoon this close that was that big. They must be eating well this year...obviously. 

3. If you can wound him, most farm type tools (i.e shovel, mattox, pitchfork or even a hoe) you can finish the job without getting your hands dirty. These things are covered in fleas and god knows what else. I bagged the one I shot immediately and stuck him in a cooler for the trip.

4. Don't be scared. Remember the food chain. Wear gloves, jacket, pants and shoes. Don't go after him in your flip flops like I did last night. 

5. Avoid tackling, pinning, wrestling and stabbing a raccoon. Afterthought is often scary. Those things have really, really sharp and long teeth. If you do get them in your hands, it seems like they can "Spin in their skin" or they are not attached to the epidermis. Watch the claws. If you have to handle one, get on top of his back and pin his legs under neath him. Hand on the neck, knees holding. His lungs are right between his shoulder blades or you could attempt to break his kneck. Good luck with that one. 

All in all, if you can...call animal control.

If you seek adventure with a little suspense and a little mess....do it yourself. I have read that rabies is quite common among raccoons. Dont know about my area but I do know i don't want them roosting in my tree and helping themselves repeatedly to my pond. I would much rather them try to knock over my garbage cans like civilized animals. Plus, the neighbors have some really cool cats that come around and they all seem to get along with each other...to I feel like I should remove the threat to them at the least. 

Crap...I shoot at least three squirrels a week trying to save my Black Walnut tree that, until I started the process was dying.


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## SherwoodForest (Jul 8, 2009)

I had a raccoon attack me before. That dude was massive and climbed me like a tree. His teeth shreaded me and the sucker got almost to my throat before I could throw him off. That was 20 years ago, I still have scars.


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## LassChance (Jul 8, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> So I have this Koi pond, well...had.
> 
> A raccoon has now, in two seperate trips eaten ALL my Koi. Some I have had for years.
> The simple fact he has come back three times is mindboggling, when you take into account I have already shot this animal...twice, confirmed.
> ...



O man...bummer.
 But look...if he was shot twice and still came back...says he was pretty damn hungry. Remember, he doesnt know they were "pet" fish.

 Can you get one of those "Have a Heart" traps and just trap him and move him to anothwer hunting ground?

 Seems kinda wrong to kill him for eating fish, like Nature intended.

 Lassie


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## BBFan (Jul 8, 2009)

> Don't be scared. Remember the food chain.



:rofl: :rofl: 

Effen- You've got a knack for storytelling.  I can't wait to read about your adventures tonight.


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## mrkingford (Jul 8, 2009)

I did not realize they were this mean or large. I have both a bb air pistol and a pump action air bb/pellet rifle. Both are old and i bit rusty and probably not dead on accurate.  Maybe a trap would be better, or to leave the dog on the deck for a night.


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## Budders Keeper (Jul 8, 2009)

SPEARCHUCKER said:
			
		

> nothing quite rings the skull like firing off some 00buck from out the cab of a truck. lol
> Felt like I had been spinning in a circle for an hour.


sorry for the sidetrack Effen...
 Spearchucker, when I was about 10 my dad shot a coyote that was killing our chickens..pointed the barrel of his black powder rifle out the back door and boom..felt like the roof rose up like a cartoon, talk about your ears ringing
  I bet that black powder rifle would take care of them!


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## LassChance (Jul 8, 2009)

kaotik said:
			
		

> 12 gauge  lol  if you don't mind pellets in your koi.
> a 308 would rip it apart just as well



Aw jeeez, now!  Why deprive a living creature of his life for being hungry and eating his natural food?  The coon didnt KNOW it was a man-made pond full of "pet" fish, for cryin out loud.
How about spending a few bucks on a piece of SCREEN just under the surface...it wouldnt show and the fish would be safe...and so would the coon.

A raccoon is much higher UP the food chain than a fish.  MUCH more intelligent, warm blooded, a mammal...should die over eating a few damn fish?  Come on. 

Man builds pond where Nature didnt put one.  Man buys pretty fish to amuse him.  Coon eats fish.  Man must now kill.  Give me a freaking break.  What's more UN-natural?  a coon eating fish or a human building a phony pond and paying big bucks for fancy goldfish for his amusement? If the human didnt have foresight enough to screen over the pond, learn a lesson, buy more fish and a screen...and get over it.

A personal blood vendetta against an animal whose only sin was eating his natural food is just plain wrong. The coon killed for food.  Is the avenging human going to eat the coon? I understand they go great with sweet potatoes.

Failing that, take a deep breath, laugh it off and let the coon live.   If a human wants a pretty pond and some pretty fish, let the human use his greater intelligence to protect the fish--and not expect the coonj to respect his "property". To a coon, a fish is a fish. And the coon is right.

Lassie


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## Hick (Jul 8, 2009)

hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-AX9QoFhEhI
..."at least he has the option of whoopin' all them dogs, and walkin' off"..:rofl:...


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## LassChance (Jul 8, 2009)

Budders Keeper said:
			
		

> sorry for the sidetrack Effen...
> Spearchucker, when I was about 10 my dad shot a coyote that was killing our chickens..pointed the barrel of his black powder rifle out the back door and boom..felt like the roof rose up like a cartoon, talk about your ears ringing
> I bet that black powder rifle would take care of them!



Man's war against coyotes is a never-ending debacle of death. Yes, a coyote will eat chickens or the occassional calf, no doubt.  But the main food source of the coyote is moles and voles and prarie dogs.
Interestingly, more cattle break legs stepping into mole or prarie dog holes every year and are "put down" than are killed by coyotes, by far.

In nature, coyotes live in family groups with one Alpha female and only she mates and breeds.  Normally, an Alpha female coyote bears two pups once a year.  However, when the coyote population is threatened , such as by the annual widescale shoot-a-thons held in the Southwest, ALL the females will breed and often have litters of four or more.  Furthermore, when the coyote population is low, females will breed twice yearly.

In other words, the more coyotes humans kill, the more coyotes are bred and born. 

Due to the annual slaughter of Southwestern couotes, they have migrated to the northeastern US as far as New York state and as far southeast as Florida.

The only way to control the coyote population is to leave them the hell alone.




Lassie


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## mrkingford (Jul 8, 2009)

Lasschance;

I respect all wildlife, as a matter of fact, i am a member of National Wildlife and contribute each year at LEAST once.
But, in the bible, god does say man has control over beasts and such................if i pay for my land, i can do with it as i please.
i don't go into their place of habitat and disturb them.
What's good for the goose..................................


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## cubby (Jul 8, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> Lasschance;
> 
> I respect all wildlife, as a matter of fact, i am a member of National Wildlife and contribute each year at LEAST once.
> But, in the bible, god does say man has control over beasts and such................if i pay for my land, i can do with it as i please.
> ...


 


I don't bye into the the whole biblical nonsence, nor can you do what you wish with "your" land. But that being said raccoons are not endangered species, they are pesky vermin, their right to exist ends when become a nucance. If they stay in the woods where they belong I wont kill them, but when they negatively impact my standard of living "BOOM" thier gone.


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## Hick (Jul 8, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> Man's war against coyotes is a never-ending debacle of death. Yes, a coyote will eat chickens or the occassional calf, no doubt.  But the main food source of the coyote is moles and voles and prarie dogs.
> Interestingly, more cattle break legs stepping into mole or prarie dog holes every year and are "put down" than are killed by coyotes, by far.
> 
> In nature, coyotes live in family groups with one Alpha female and only she mates and breeds.  Normally, an Alpha female coyote bears two pups once a year.  However, when the coyote population is threatened , such as by the annual widescale shoot-a-thons held in the Southwest, ALL the females will breed and often have litters of four or more.  Furthermore, when the coyote population is low, females will breed twice yearly.
> ...



I remember a local public forum where coyote killing/population control methods were coming under scrutiny by some peta city folks. 
  The peta representative was saying that all the was needed was to trap as many males as possible, and neuter them..
  One of the local ranchers had to tell her.."Lady, they ain't screwin' my sheep, they're EATING them!".. 

(trying to keep the tone _lite_ here )


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## mrkingford (Jul 8, 2009)

cubby said:
			
		

> I don't bye into the the whole biblical nonsence, nor can you do what you wish with "your" land. But that being said raccoons are not endangered species, they are pesky vermin, their right to exist ends when become a nucance. If they stay in the woods where they belong I wont kill them, but when they negatively impact my standard of living "BOOM" thier gone.


 

I was only poking, i'm not a bible freak, i won't be knocking on your door to preach anytime soon ,lol..

And i think we are stating the same thing.?.?
Stay off my area and you live..................
I don't care if they wonder through the 8 acres i have, just stay away from my house and trash! 
I had 4 turkeys walk through my property in may, one was a huge male and 3 were his women, it happened my Pitt was out in the woods doing his business and they were walking his way not knowing.
He saw them and took stance ( a REAL pitt WON'T bark, growl or warn as they enjoy fighting and look forward to it ). the male turkey saw him and opened his wings to look big and mean and poised toward my pitt as to defend his women.

It's a good thing he listens to me and stood in position til i ran to him and took hold of his collar. We walked to the side a bit and the turkeys continued on and actually stopped at the pond, drank, then moved on as if just another day...........

Could have had an early thanksgiving but i don't kill innocent animals.


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## dr pyro (Jul 8, 2009)

had the same problem i used my night vision scope put it on my .22. use a 22 short sounds like a cap gun when shot or use the long ones with either 2 liter bottle taped on the end or a potato to silence it.17 hmr would work to but its alot louder than 22.pellet gun will not kill  him unless you get a good placed head shot


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## dr pyro (Jul 8, 2009)

or get a have a hart trap put some cat food in there as soon as he goes in cage drops then load him up drop him some where far away


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## BBFan (Jul 9, 2009)

Hey Effen- Where's the update?  This is like an old time radio show and I'm tuning in for today's sequel.

Lasschance:
No offense, but isn't it contradictory to even mention the food chain if your concern is for animals in general?  What makes a fish less than a viable creature than a raccoon?  Because it's furry and warm-blooded?  If ants enter your home, do you trap them and release them outside, or do you kill them?  They're only doing what they are genetically programmed to do- hunt for food.

Unfortunately, there are circumstances where humans and certain wildlife cannot coexist in the same area.  Sounds like this is one of those circumstances to me.  Although the fish are gone, these creatures continue to come around Effen's home- making them a potential threat to his family and pets.

Besides, he tells the stories so well.


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## PencilHead (Jul 9, 2009)

Cruel is putting treble hooks in bait suspended off the ground.  Cruel is putting anti-freeze in bowls around your place.  .22 shorts are just vermin control and much kinder.  

As for the "doing what's natural" wasn't Atilla the Hun just doing what was natural?  The Goths?  The Visigoths?  Sulliman the Great?  Hitler and Mousollini?  Man is proprietary by nature, so wouldn't kicking the spit out of an intruder be a natural thing?

Yours truly
The Devil's Advocate


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## Hick (Jul 9, 2009)

> Besides, he tells the stories so well.


well he ain't no Jerry Clower...

I found lass's response confused/confusing, also. Interesting that it's "ok" for the coons to assert _their_ place in the 'food chain, but not so for effen to assert 'his' dominant position over them in the same natural chain... :confused2:
  No offense intended Lass, but I find responses like that are most often "emotionally" based,(_poor_ li'l racoons) and really do not reflect reality or 'good common sense'.  The fact is, the coons are an imminent threat to not only his family and pets, but to the entire neighborhoods families, pets, gardens, ect. 
  I don't understand how protecting them is any less a natural avenue of pursuit, than the coons natural instinct to be a sneak thief. If say, a pack rat came into the coons lair to steal the coy that she had brought home to her brood, would the coon be wrong in eliminating it? (poor lil packrat) 
 Or would it be different, if effen were removing them because they were eating say his sweet corn?

I don't want this to degrade into an argument over "animals rights", but I would like to gain a better understanding of your views.


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 9, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> 4. Don't be scared. Remember the food chain. Wear gloves, jacket, pants and shoes. Don't go after him in your flip flops like I did last night.


 
 

eace:


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## Hick (Jul 9, 2009)

..


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 9, 2009)

eace:


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## Hick (Jul 9, 2009)

..all he needs is "my" shower cap!


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## tcbud (Jul 9, 2009)

Great Props guys, I mean.....
:rofl:


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 9, 2009)

I went on a night bike ride last night and came home at around 1:30. 
Went upstairs, fell on my bed and crashed.

At around 3 am my cats are going nuts in front of our bedroom door, which is windowed. 
I can see that something tripped my motion sensor floods in the yard...my cats are more than interested in something in front of the door and I can swear I hear something, but I had recently adjusted the air/filtration setup in my planted discus tank...so I mistook one nois for another. Plus I was dog butt tired.

This morning when I opened my bedroom door, the screen door was not only shreded at the bottom, it was bent out as if something was trying to pry its way in.

Like seriously, how insane are these animals?
Do they "Nest" or burrow?
Are there any natural repellents?

...and Hippy, those rasta thongs...Almost dead on. Mine dont have the leaves though, just the colors.


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## tcbud (Jul 9, 2009)

You do know effin, those critters move in packs?  Gettin back at you for killen their bro.....


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## LassChance (Jul 9, 2009)

ArtVandolay said:
			
		

> Not a bad idea, Sherwood, but it will be more fun to shoot it .  I'm partial to the 12 gauge mentioned by HIE above, but a cheap .22 caliber rifle will do the job quieter and cleaner .  You can buy a cheap .22 at WallyMart



"Shooting it is more fun"???
That's truly sickening.
Can somebody explain to me why men love to kill?  Is it some leftover Caveman edit? Or some kind of power rush?

Or is it just that men ate basically edit  who honestly believe they have some kind of god-given right to take the lives of animals for ANY reason?

What part of "All Life is Sacred" do you guys not get?
Do you have ethics? Respect for the other animals we share this planet with?  Evidently, not. Raccoons eat fish. Accept it. That he ate a pricey Koi is not a sin worthy of the death penalty.

You got yer Heroin, Crack and nicotine, but NO chemical is more dangerous that estrogen .

Maybe one of these days I will feel a similar urge to kill something for fun.  But IF I do, I'll be blowing the heads off every rifle-happy Second Ammendmant supporting, God given rights loving, believer of The Constitution of these United States I see, certainly not raccoons.

LassChance

edited for content by Hick


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 9, 2009)

Roger that.

Perhaps I will put him outside for them to see.
I got him back from the taxidermist this morning.




Actually, the guy told me it would be a while. I guess he is busy stuffing all the rich folks tiny dogs or something...


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 9, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> "Shooting it is more fun"???
> That's truly sickening.
> Can somebody explain to me why men love to kill?  Is it some leftover Caveman ****? Or some kind of power rush?
> 
> ...



It has been scientifically proven that carrots "Scream" to their bretheren when you pull them out of the ground.

I am willing to make the claim that cannabis also emits high amounts of pheramones when you start cutting them down.

All life is all life including whatever you eat.
Matter cannot be destroyed, only altered from one form to another. 

Don't you fret Lass, I am sure we will all kill ourselves before we wreck the place too bad. 

...But before you get all bent out of shape about guns, animals and killing I invite you to:

A, Spend a week in the woods without one. Really deep in there...where there ARE predators bigger than you.

B, Do a little reading on what kind of threats the very un-endangered raccoon poses to the neighborhood.

C, I hope to god that you don't eat meat and own no leather.

D, Try to not be such a man hating, gun hating, wanting to use guns to kill gun users kind of person. Sounds a little crazy to me.


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## LassChance (Jul 9, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> I went on a night bike ride last night and came home at around 1:30.
> Went upstairs, fell on my bed and crashed.
> 
> At around 3 am my cats are going nuts in front of our bedroom door, which is windowed.
> ...



Could have been a possum or a coon. If you have dog food or cat food out, they will try to get in for a snack.

I opened my oven one Thanksgiving morning to put the turkey in...and there was a young possum, living comfy and cozy in the broiler!  he even had a little stash of cat food in there with him and was evidently coming and going theu the Kitty Door, LOL. He was maybe two months old, weighed less than my cat.

I threw a towel over him, lifted him out and carefully set him down outside, where he trundled off.

Last year in the dead of night, my dogs went NUTS, barking, growling like crazy.  I jumped up and turned on the light.  There by the head of the bed was a little dead possum...poor little guy was stiff, his mouth open, his tongue lolling out.  His eyes were open and glazed and I could see rows of razor sharp little teeth in his open mouth.

So, I picked up a tee shirt and used it to grab the criitter by his tail, carried him up the stairs and still holding him, rumaged for a garbage bag, found one and shook it open.
I dropped the corpse in and tossed the bag outside the fence, figuring the next day I would dispose of the body.

Only...next morning, the bag was EMPTY.

The little guy was only playing Dead.  When I think of what could have happened if he had suddenly decided to "come to life"...I get chills.  Imagine those rows of teeth gnawing up my arm!

Lesson learned:  When you see a "dead" possum, UNLESS you also see BLOOD, guts and brain fragments...chances are, he aint dead at all.

Lassie


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 9, 2009)

I found a dead baby possum in my yar a week ago. Guess it fell off its mom or something.

It had all the little brown specks on it, so I bent over for a closer inspection...

Fleas. the thing was COVERED in fleas. 
I had to burn it before I picked it up and threw it away. 

Nasty creatures. There is bounty on the invasive possum in New Zealand, as they have no natural predators and decimate the bird and ancient tree population.


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## kaotik (Jul 9, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> I went on a night bike ride last night and came home at around 1:30.
> Went upstairs, fell on my bed and crashed.
> 
> At around 3 am my cats are going nuts in front of our bedroom door, which is windowed.
> ...


 
ohh, they're comin' for ya, lookin' for revenge.. better sleep with one eye open 
natural repellant? got a dog? mine put the run on anything that comes into my yard (i'd hate for them to actually corner a 'coon though, or even a cat.)
there's not really any natural repellant for those buggers though. they can be pretty persistant. (maybe the stuffed raccoon will do, but i'd think it'd probably attract them to it, they're curious.)

i'm with lass to an extent, and undertastand where she's coming from.. i'm a big hippy when it comes to nature.. and i do value animals (usually more than humans in most cases  ) 
i feel that's kind of our purpose here; to protect everything on this planet, as we're the only species here that can (we're doing great at that eh?)  but when an animal is not taking heed to the initial warnings (rocks, pellets) it's time to do something. 
yes it would've been better to not kill it, but really he didn't have a whole lot of options here. 

i don't like shooting animals, and seldom shoot anything i don't plan on eating.. but i think he was justified in shooting this coon, it obviously had no plans on vacating the area.


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## The Effen Gee (Jul 9, 2009)

koi fish or carp...definitely easy to replace.

A beloved pet cat, not so easy. Plus, like mentioned before it's not like there aren't alot of them around.

When I last visited monterey, I saw raccoons that were twice the size of the one in my yard. Grotesquely big. Scary to get near big. Possibly could take you down if mad enough big. 

Harmfully big.


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 9, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> "Shooting it is more fun"???
> That's truly sickening.
> Can somebody explain to me why men love to kill?  Is it some leftover Caveman ****? Or some kind of power rush?
> 
> ...



There's an awful lot of bad language in that thar post .  And I don't subscribe to any of your **, especially your "All Life is Sacred" theory.  I repeat - a 12 gauge and/or a .22 in the head is an effective solution to a real problem.


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## LassChance (Jul 9, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> He sounds like a good dog.
> I have an American Pitt Bull Terrier 3rd generation, he's 121 lbs. and is extremely dominate.
> IF my dog caught him it would'nt be pretty.
> I guess thats why it only comes at night?



He comes at night because they are nocturnal.

I have a Pit, too.  Not as big as yours, but a great dog, best Ive ever had.  He's sweet as he can be and loves people.  Not crazy about other male dogs, tho... He's not purebred, just a foundling that some cracker threw away and thank god, he found my door, hungry and covered with ticks and fleas. Now he's plump, healthy and gorgeous with the bluest eyes you ever saw.

Dogs are the best people.  I had this cracker neighbor who threatened to shoot him if he saw my dog on his property.  I said, "Let's not get to shooting each other's families, pal.  You wont like it."
If he hurt my dog...Id blow a hole the size of a football thru that SOB. Thank god, he moved last year.

Lassie


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## BBFan (Jul 9, 2009)

> i feel that's kind of our purpose here; to protect everything on this planet, as we're the only species here that can (we're doing great at that eh?)



I'm sorry Kaotic but I'm going to disagree there.  What gives us the right to alter or change the natural course of things.  We have no clue how to do it and shouldn't try.  Look at how we screwed up Yellowstone (removal of predators, etc).  We cannot protect that which we have no clue of how to protect.

Lassie-  Dogs are the best people?  That why you have that name?


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## cubby (Jul 9, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> "Shooting it is more fun"???
> That's truly sickening.
> Can somebody explain to me why men love to kill? Is it some leftover Caveman ****? Or some kind of power rush?
> 
> ...


 



     Someones got her knickers in a knot. Wheather or not you like it killing is the most prevalent means to an end in nuture. All predators kill for food, territorie, mates, and the protection of thier own. 
    All life is sacred, since when? Grow up, it's not a cumbyah world, never has been, never will be. 
    Additionaly, nowhere in this thread has anyone promoted the idea of killing raccoons or anything else purely for "fun". 
    And your harrang against men in general would seem to indicate maybe you need something...........:hubba:


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## tcbud (Jul 9, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> He comes at night because they are nocturnal.
> 
> I have a Pit, too. Not as big as yours, but a great dog, best Ive ever had. He's sweet as he can be and loves people. Not crazy about other male dogs, tho... He's not purebred, just a foundling that some cracker threw away and thank god, he found my door, hungry and covered with ticks and fleas. Now he's plump, healthy and gorgeous with the bluest eyes you ever saw.
> 
> ...


 
I take exception to ALL of the above, cept the part about blue eyes.  I am sure that calling someone a Cracker is bout as bad as using the dreaded N word.  I on the other hand, have two dogs that I personally would love to put a rifle site to.  They belong to the nice neighbor.  I have told them the doggie po po is not my cup a tea or I would have one of my own.  I have told them I dont enjoy seeing the Deer being run by my window by their sweet "family members".  She says she keeps the dogs to scare bears, and when a bear comes by she calls on my husband to come shoo it out of her driveway.  Where it was sitting eating afore mentioned dog food (bait?).  I dont mind coons (not to be confused with the N word variety), and I sho do like a good Cracker with my tomato soup (not to be confused with the type of Neighbor you, Lass have), but as funny as this thread is, I'd hate to see it be closed due to biggitry (and I dont even know how to spell it).  I AM mightily offended by it in *any* form.

(in edit)  Now who has their panties in a bunch?  Guess that dog thing hit a nerve.  I wrote out a bunch on fleas and ticks having rights too, this bongin in the afternoon is dangerous stuff.  And well, I prolly need a dose of that "something" cubby was talkin about too.


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## Hick (Jul 9, 2009)

..ain't it funny  how when "some" are faced with a valid question or asked for an explanation, that they simply do not have a sensible answer, or a shred of evidence to support it, they immediately attack with racial slurs, name calling and foul language?.. :rofl:.. 
  I find it true all too often with the liberal treehugger, PETA, Sierra club, ELF, ALF, WPA, WSPA, types. 
  They defend their position with nothing but emotion. You simply cannot argue emotion with common sense OR facts.


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## cubby (Jul 9, 2009)

tcbud said:
			
		

> I take exception to ALL of the above, cept the part about blue eyes. I am sure that calling someone a Cracker is bout as bad as using the dreaded N word. I on the other hand, have two dogs that I personally would love to put a rifle site to. They belong to the nice neighbor. I have told them the doggie po po is not my cup a tea or I would have one of my own. I have told them I dont enjoy seeing the Deer being run by my window by their sweet "family members". She says she keeps the dogs to scare bears, and when a bear comes by she calls on my husband to come shoo it out of her driveway. Where it was sitting eating afore mentioned dog food (bait?). I dont mind coons (not to be confused with the N word variety), and I sho do like a good Cracker with my tomato soup (not to be confused with the type of Neighbor you, Lass have), but as funny as this thread is, I'd hate to see it be closed due to biggitry (and I dont even know how to spell it). I AM mightily offended by it in *any* form.
> 
> (in edit) Now who has their panties in a bunch? Guess that dog thing hit a nerve. I wrote out a bunch on fleas and ticks having rights too, this bongin in the afternoon is dangerous stuff. And well, I prolly need a dose of that "something" cubby was talkin about too.


 


     I have been a dog owner my whole life, and have always provided them a fenced in yard to play in. My dogs are my responsability, not my niehbors. My dogs have always been properly trained and socialised. They don't bark without reason, when i hear my dog bark I go and find out why. I would no more alow my dog to relieve himself in a niehbors yard than I would put up with my niehbors dog doing it in my yard. I am to the bone a dog person but if my niehbors dog routinely came on my property they'd hear about it. If it continued I'd call animal control. If it continued after that then I would just have to assume the owners didd'nt want the dog anymore and would be forced to erradicate the problem. If I could catch it I'd drive it to a dog pound far away, If it was an agressive dog, well thats what Winchesters were invented for.
    The idea that someone works hard to provide a home and property for their family but must contend with uninvited and unwanted intruders is just rediculous. A mans (or womans) home is his/her castle, and should be respected as such.
    But what do I know, in the eyes of less resonable/ reponsible people I might be considdered a Cracker.......hopefully a ritz, not a plain old saltine.....have a heart.


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## Hick (Jul 9, 2009)

tcbud said:
			
		

> I take exception to ALL of the above, cept the part about blue eyes.  I am sure that calling someone a Cracker is bout as bad as using the dreaded N word.  I on the other hand, have two dogs that I personally would love to put a rifle site to.  They belong to the nice neighbor.  I have told them the doggie po po is not my cup a tea or I would have one of my own.  I have told them I dont enjoy seeing the Deer being run by my window by their sweet "family members".  She says she keeps the dogs to scare bears, and when a bear comes by she calls on my husband to come shoo it out of her driveway.  Where it was sitting eating afore mentioned dog food (bait?).  I dont mind coons (not to be confused with the N word variety), and I sho do like a good Cracker with my tomato soup (not to be confused with the type of Neighbor you, Lass have), but as funny as this thread is, I'd hate to see it be closed due to biggitry (and I dont even know how to spell it).  I AM mightily offended by it in *any* form.
> 
> (in edit)  Now who has their panties in a bunch?  Guess that dog thing hit a nerve.  I wrote out a bunch on fleas and ticks having rights too, this bongin in the afternoon is dangerous stuff.  And well, I prolly need a dose of that "something" cubby was talkin about too.



You know what I found quite effective on neighborhood mongrels running my property, was a painball gun!...
Send a big black rotty home with a bright pink paintball shot on him, it serves a dual purpose. Not only does the dog get a good lesson, it conveys a significant _warning_  "message" to their owner..
  And I like your idea of including ticks, fleas, mites, cockroaches, ect. in the "all life is sacred" theory.. "even" the ones carrying the Bubonic plague, rabies, west nile, ect. ect. ect.


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## PencilHead (Jul 9, 2009)

Well, I'll admit: I'm a cracker--several ways.

Gee, this is all I gotta say and the Talking Heads said it best. Did I already mention .22 shorts?  High Standard Sport King if you can find one. 

Im mad...and thats a fact
I found out...animals dont help
Animal think...theyre pretty smart
**** on the ground...see in the dark.

They wander around like a crazy dog
Make a mistake in the parking lot
Always bumping into things
Always let you down down down down.

Theyre never there when you need them
They never come when you call them
Theyre never there when you need them
The nevere come when you call them down down down down.

I know the animals...are laughing at us
They dont even know...what a joke is
I wont follow...animals advice
I dont care...if theyre laughing at us.

Theyre never there when you need them
They never come when you call them
Theyre never there when you need them
The nevere come when you call them down down down down.

They say they dont need money
Theyre lvinign on nuts and berries
They say animals dont worry
You know animals are hairy? 
They think they know whats best
Theyre making a fool of us
They ought to be more careful
Theyre setting a bad example
They have untroubled lives
They think everythings nice
They like to laugh at people
Theyre setting a bad example
(go ahead) laugh at me.


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## cubby (Jul 9, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> You know what I found quite effective on neighborhood mongrels running my property, was a painball gun!...
> Send a big black rotty home with a bright pink paintball shot on him, it serves a dual purpose. Not only does the dog get a good lesson, it conveys a significant _warning_ "message" to their owner..
> And I like your idea of including ticks, fleas, mites, cockroaches, ect. in the "all life is sacred" theory.. "even" the ones carrying the Bubonic plague, rabies, west nile, ect. ect. ect.


 


    I love that paintball idea, I can slip that in nicely between the dogpuond and the winchester. If fluffy comes home with a bright red spot on the back of his head they certainly can't say they were'nt warned.
    I wonder if her theory of "all life is sacred" applies to bugs eating her grow? Doubt it. Selective objectivity must be great. As far as the vulgarity, it's a sure sign of a weak mind and weaker argument.


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## AcesUp (Jul 9, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> He comes at night because they are nocturnal.
> 
> I have a Pit, too. Not as big as yours, but a great dog, best Ive ever had. He's sweet as he can be and loves people. Not crazy about other male dogs, tho... He's not purebred, just a foundling that some cracker threw away and thank god, he found my door, hungry and covered with ticks and fleas. Now he's plump, healthy and gorgeous with the bluest eyes you ever saw.
> 
> ...


 
Nice statement after you just bashed everyone that likes hunting. Get real.


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## dr pyro (Jul 9, 2009)

you didnt cry when you put that bird in the oven thanksgiving morning did ya.i ahad to shot 2 out of 3 of my neighbors pits came in my yard mauled my pit. neighbor was warned 6 months later made another attempt threw my gate got threw and went to maul my dog again. 2 shots from my 12 gauge 2 dogs never went home that day. neighbor came over crying  threating me and my family( she was arrested 3 times before she got the hint). she was warned to  many times. she was another peta treehugger who was a complete idiot one thing they all have in common


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## mrkingford (Jul 9, 2009)

I also was offended by "cracker".
If the reverse word was used, a ban would have been in order.
Kinda shows the current state of American racism, one sided.
I am shocked a mod did'nt block the word or edit it or comment about it.
But it's none of my business.

Everyone loves their dogs, i hope.
Mine is trained very well. 
I have had him sine he was 6 weeks old.
He does'nt bark or growl, but he will defend with passion.
He, like another posters dog hates other dogs but is a people "dog".
He has more friends than i do.  
Sometimes when he's out back and looks into the woods and just takes his stance and it's a sight to see, lol.  He knows something is there, but i wont allow him to chase it. He listens to my commands.

I love wildlife and even have 2 owls in the woods and they hoot between 3-5am, i don't know why, but like clockwork, 3-5am.
One calls to the other, and back and forth for hours.

I just don't like my trash cans knocked over and the nasty mess left, is it too much to ask for some basic respect?

After all i do pay the mortgage. I make the rules. Period.


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## dirtyolsouth (Jul 9, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> You know what I found quite effective on neighborhood mongrels running my property, was a painball gun!...
> Send a big black rotty home with a bright pink paintball shot on him, it serves a dual purpose. Not only does the dog get a good lesson, it conveys a significant _warning_  "message" to their owner..
> And I like your idea of including ticks, fleas, mites, cockroaches, ect. in the "all life is sacred" theory.. "even" the ones carrying the Bubonic plague, rabies, west nile, ect. ect. ect.



I love the paintball idea...  It reminds me of a comedian who had a routine that said we should have stick on darts that we can shoot at cars when the driver does something stupid, unsafe, illegal while behind the wheel.  When a cop sees your car with X amount of darts on your car he has to pull you over and give you a ticket.  

When I lived out in Cali my buddy found a very annoyed mother and 7 baby possums when he opened his dryer.  Evidently mama possum had brought the babies in through the ventilation duct.  He had a neighbor who worked at the local animal shelter and he came over and removed them.  I don't think I'd want to grab a mother possum protecting her young...  And any other solution could get very messy.


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## mrkingford (Jul 9, 2009)

dr pyro said:
			
		

> you didnt cry when you put that bird in the oven thanksgiving morning did ya.i ahad to shot 2 out of 3 of my neighbors pits came in my yard mauled my pit. neighbor was warned 6 months later made another attempt threw my gate got threw and went to maul my dog again. 2 shots from my 12 gauge 2 dogs never went home that day. neighbor came over crying threating me and my family( she was arrested 3 times before she got the hint). she was warned to many times. she was another peta treehugger who was a complete idiot one thing they all have in common


 
Before i got him i did a lot of research on bloodlines and such.
He is a 3rd generation and both his parents and 1 of his grandparents are champions, thus a strong bloodline.
He was $1600.00 when i got him, and worth every penny.

A true Pitt has "gameness" (look it up), it means the willingness to fight to the death without retreat despite any pain.
The more gameness the better the bloodline.
Pitts were bread in the 1800's to fight bulls and bears. 
They were bread to ignore pain as they have an 18 times higher tollerance than the next dog.
So, if my pitt was attacked by 3 dogs, he would stand there til he died from blood loss or til he killed every dog.

When he was 3 (he is 7 1/2 now ) i took him to a public park.
He was on the leash and before i knew it 2 dogs, a mastiff about 140 lbs. and a dobermin pincher about 120 lbs. OFF their leashes.
My dog at the time was only about 110 lbs. but in his prime.
He was hit before i let go of the leash, now some people say you can break up a dog fight, ahh, nope.
I just let go of the leash and watched, what could i do ?
The other dogs owners ran over but it too late to stop it, my pitt's ear was bitten badly and bleeding a lot but he stood firm and got hold of the dobermins front paw/leg and bite it and broke it, the pincher yelped and hobbled off to its owners and the 2 went to town for about 2-4 minutes ( trust me its a LONG time ) and my dog finnally got hold of the mastiffs huge neck and put him down.
We all went over and i used my shoe on his bottom jaw and pulled up with the leash in his top )roof of his mouth) til we could get his neck out.

Blood was everywhere on every dog, park rangers there, women crying, etc.
Bottom line the other people were wrong and got 2 tickets for dogs off leash and offered to pay my vet bill, but after seeing their dogs, i really, really felt bad.
That was the only time he ever attacked! 
Now i KNOW i can trust him as my familys protector.
( his ear took 14 stiches and still has the scar )


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## dr pyro (Jul 9, 2009)

well he never backed down i actully had to jump in i got bit my stupidity even after i broke it off he wanted more he was actually going to go back for more after i had locked the gate he just looked at me then collasped. he lost alot of blood he got likeover 100  stiches on his legs and his ears where completly ripped off. after that i had lost it.seeing him like that and the irresponsible owner just letting her dogs do whatever they want.its was hard to watch anything like that i do not wish to ever see that ever again


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## tcbud (Jul 9, 2009)

I would like you kind people to know I will not be shooting or paintballing any dogs.  I have been putting up with the dog crap, and do miss the deer grazing near my home, for years now.  They are my nieghbors and there will be no fued over something like this.  I live in the woods, You would think the dogs could find a place away from the house.  Mostly they do.

I live with animals and enjoy the heck out of them, these animals all have ticks and fleas.  They are wild.  When in a pinch in my life I have eaten poached deer, easier to eat than poached eggs.

I do not leave out garbage for the racoons or bears.  I do not put out a salt lick for the deer (I have thot of it tho, but the dogs would have a heyday).  I dont build ponds and stock them with fish and expect wild animals to leave those fish alone.  I grow my plants, mind my own business, and expect the same treatment from humans.  I also enjoy the owls near my home, but would have rathered all the spotted owl were dead everywhere, as the childern here are hurt by less money for schools because of less timber sales on government lands.  Kids should come before owls.

I am not a tree hugger, tho there are some trees on the California Coast that should be preserved in my opinion.  Things are never black or white, life is more shades of grey.

I really like this forum and threads like these are one reason why.  Diversity.


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## BBFan (Jul 10, 2009)

Nice post TC-

But I didn't take the "cracker" comment you mentioned in your previous post as offensive- some of the other comments perhaps, but cracker didn't bother me.


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## Hick (Jul 10, 2009)

tcbud said:
			
		

> I would like you kind people to know I will not be shooting or paintballing any dogs.  I have been putting up with the dog crap, and do miss the deer grazing near my home, for years now.  They are my nieghbors and there will be no fued over something like this.  I live in the woods, You would think the dogs could find a place away from the house.  Mostly they do.
> 
> I live with animals and enjoy the heck out of them, these animals all have ticks and fleas.  They are wild.  When in a pinch in my life I have eaten poached deer, easier to eat than poached eggs.
> 
> ...



great post tc, I think we're in total agreement  ....and to elaborate on my "paintball" post, I caught one of these dogs (a BIG St bernard no less) exiting "my" chicken coop, with one of "my" chickens in his mouth. 
  I contacted my local deputy. He informed me that I was perfectly within my rights to shoot and kill "any" threat to my animals or personal property. IMO.. as a farmer/rancher, "animal lover", it is not only my 'right', but my _duty_ to protect 'my' domestic animals. 
   Now, I know the ppl that own the dogs. I kow some have children and these are their 'pets'. I would never want to injure or kill any kids pet, and that is exactly what I told the deputy. But you know what?.. after sending only two home with paintball on them, the problem ceased! I didn't have the unsavory chore of killing anything, or "seeing" my personal property destroyed. 
  The same ppl that condemn the dog, coyote, wolfe, bear, 'coon, ect.(predator) shooting, would also be the first to condemn me if I were not feeding, watering, or otherwise "taking care" of them properly as abuse. 
  I live with, and have lived with wild animals for the better part of 50+ years. I feel that gives me at least, some sembelance of authority to speak of my experience. I'm an avid hunter and have been for 40 years. As such, "I" am most concerned with the welfare of wild animals. I buy in excess of $300 worth of liscences every year. THAT money goes directly to supporting wildlife. Over that time frame, I have given in the neighborhood of 12 _thousand_ dollars toward the maintenance and control of our wildlife. Our DOW recieves *$0* from the 'general fund'.(no taxpayer funds) It is funded primarily by the purchase of liscences. 
   Without naming names or pointing fingers, I wonder if any of the complaining crowd have given so much as 12 dolllars in that time. 
    Nearlly all of my neighbors have bear problems. They have bird feeders, hummingbird feeders, corn for the turkeys(btw is also illegal). They put their garbage out, they leave pet food out. Yet they call the division of wildlife to complain..and ask for $$ as reparation. :confused2:... DOW then spends _my_ monies, to trap and relocate the bear "when" possible. 
  "I" don't have those problems. But "I" don't _bait_ them. On the rare occasion that a "conditioned" bear enters my domain, I use tactics that makes it an.. unpleasant.. experience. In the words of a wise old DOW officer.."A fed bear is a dead bear".  
  We have had at least 3 incidents of bears entering homes this year already, while ppl and their kids were present!.. There is nothing "natural" about that. Those bears have become 'conditioned'. Accustomed to human presents, AND associate it with food. It isn't the bears fault. It is the people's...


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## Hick (Jul 10, 2009)

....WoW!!!!... that musta' been an exceptionally fine joint this morning..
sorry for the long rant...


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## PencilHead (Jul 10, 2009)

Possums?  Possums?  Tell 'em about our possums, Art.  We got possums on the half shell here that are stupider than the original shell-less version.  When they roll up like a rolly-poly, you just chunk them over the fence into the neighbor's yard.


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 10, 2009)

I have never heard of the term 'Cracker' before so googled it.

Tut.

eace:


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## BBFan (Jul 10, 2009)

I thought cracker was a slur about a white person of low intelligence or class.


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## Hick (Jul 10, 2009)

HippyInEngland said:
			
		

> I have never heard of the term 'Cracker' before so googled it.
> 
> Tut.
> 
> eace:


 hie.. after exchanging a pm w/ lass', I believe we misinterpreted her use of the word as a racial slur. I don't think it was intended such.  
and for that, I have apologized there, and will again here.


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## PencilHead (Jul 10, 2009)

A cracker can be a Georgian (Georgia Cracker).  A cracker can be a Floridian (Florida Cracker).  There's all sorts of nonsense about the origin of the term.  Bet your axe it wasn't from them "cracking whips to drive the oxen or mules along as most will try to convince you--poor arsed crackers couldn't afford shoes, let alone oxen or mules.  

The best and most believable I've heard is that it was from a similar sounding Cherokee or Creek word that meant something along the lines of: something-white-that crawled-out-from-under-a-rock.  I got this from an old half Cherokee/half Seminole who I worked with in Savannah who could also pull your leg if you didn't watch out, so IDK for sure.

I do know this: it is definitely a racial slur used to describe poor white Southerners, as is the term 'white trash.'  Just like the N word, if you ain't one, you can't use it even being cute.  But, hey, that's no worse than saying I never met anyone from NJ that wasn't an A-hole, or saying everyone I've ever met from Arkansas was a pecker-wood, or that island people smell funny.  Bigotry uses many faces and voices as does predjudice and stereotypification.

But, I'm a cracker with a considerable amount of native blood and, being a Southerner for about 400 years back, I'm sure I'm toting my share of Black blood.  I have extremely tough skin, but if I hear you call anyone a cracker, a spic, a red-skin, a dago, a chink or an N, I'm gonna walk off and never speak to your ignorant arse again, so long as we both shall live.

If you aren't the one targeted and insulted, why would you think that using these terms is okay, cracker?


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## tcbud (Jul 10, 2009)

It is always hard for City folk to understand wild animals, when they have had absolutely no experience with them.  I pay my licence fees too, the husband gets a deer tag each year, and I for one hope he comes home empty handed.  Mostly because I dont care to eat deer meat.

I was taught if you kill an animal, you are to clean it and eat it.  So the killing is something I have avoided, till the Bass fishing bug bit me.  Not because killing game is inhumane.  When fishing, I have a deal with the husband, I dont have to touch the slimy buggers (I graded salmon for a few summers on a fish processor in Alaska and have had a lifetime of slime, thank you), I dont have to clean them, and I dont have to cook them.  I do eat them with lemon tho.
I have a funny story for you Hick, about dogs.
Back in the seventies, we had a real "hardass" type sherriff up here.  He was a law unto his self.  He personally kept the "hippies" out of the county for years (I have nothing against "hippies", I have long hair myself).  Anyhow, a friend of mine who lived right on the edge of town, in a new house, had stock.  Cows, chicken, turkeys, all around his home.  Three dogs kept comming up to his place and were terrorizing his stock.  This went on till he thot to talk to the Serriff.  Our Sherrif told him to shoot the dogs next time they ran his stock.  My friend killed all three dogs.  Turns out the dogs belonged to the Sherriff, one had made it home to die.  Sherriff was pretty pissed.  Couldnt charge him with property damage, as their were witnesses to his words to kill the dogs.  My friend got a ticket for shooting a fire arm in city limits.   We have no "city limits" here, then or now.
I agree with you bout "bait".  We used to have tired old bears up here at the dump all the time, that were relocated.  Our trash now is actually locked up at night, and I mean the Counties thrash, the whole building full of trash is locked down every night!  I saw two this year now, one dead on the road, and one live with a tag out by the lake.  They are beautiful, but not an animal I want to mess with.
I was also pretty high when I wrote that post about bigetry.  I am glad to hear Lass didnt mean it the way it sounded.  Thanks for being a good mod.


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 10, 2009)

PencilHead said:
			
		

> Possums?  Possums?  Tell 'em about our possums, Art.  We got possums on the half shell here that are stupider than the original shell-less version.  When they roll up like a rolly-poly, you just chunk them over the fence into the neighbor's yard.






*Opossum Info: *Opossums are the only North American marsupials. The females of this group have a  pouch on the belly where the young are carried and nourished for a time after their birth. Opossums are  2-3 feet long including the naked scaley tail, and weigh 8-14 pounds as adults. They live in a variety of habitats.  The are nocturnal animals. Opossums are omnivores, and will eat almost anything, including insects, snails,  rodents, berries, fruit, grasses, leaves, carrion, pet food, and garbage.  They prefer meat to vegetables. 

*Biology: *Opossums have many unusual physical features. As stated, they are marsupials. The females have 13 nipples upon which the young cling, as they grow in the pouch. As they get older, they push each other off until about four are left, then they leave on their own. They are famous for their prehensile tail, which they use for balance and grasping, and can occasionally hang from, though this is rare. They are also known for "playing possum", a defense tactic of mimicking death when frightened. They have opposable thumbs, and are excellent climbers. They usually only live 2-3 years, even as adults. The males have a bifurcated penis, which led to a myth about them copulating through the nose. They have 50 teeth, which is the most of any mammal, except for some killer whales, I'm told. They have incredible immune systems and are low on intelligence compared to other mammals.  *

Nuisance concerns: *Opossums are prolific breeders, and need places to live. Oftentimes human structures, such as the undersides of porches and sheds provide ideal habitat. Opossums can raid garbage cans and steal pet food. They can also carry parasites and diseases, although rabies incidents are much less frequent than in other animals, such as raccoons. I often encounter opossums living in attics, where they make a terrible mess with their droppings, and a lot of noise. Opossums are also the most common dead animal that I deal with, because they don't live long in the wild, and tend to die under homes and in attics.


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 10, 2009)

PencilHead said:
			
		

> Bigotry uses many faces and voices as does predjudice and stereotypification.


 
So its a form of Obfuscation.

eace:


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## LassChance (Jul 10, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> Lasschance;
> 
> I respect all wildlife, as a matter of fact, i am a member of National Wildlife and contribute each year at LEAST once.
> But, in the bible, god does say man has control over beasts and such................if i pay for my land, i can do with it as i please.
> ...



Mr K--
Belonging to the Wildlife Association and sending a check once a year seems contradictory to your enthusiasm for gathering your gear to kill your own maurading raccoon.  Your wife, evidently a spiritual person, said straight up it was "mean". That didnt matter to you--only the possibility of the cops showing up stopped you.  Here's the important thing, the Thinga Importanta as you might say, Mr K--it IS mean. That a man armed with a gun can kill a raccon is no big surprise. And nothing to be proud of.  Id pay money to see you or Effin Gee armed with a jacknife taking a full grown male raccoon on.
No chance of that, eh? Nah...you might get hurt!  Better to hide in the bush and aim thru a scope...

 You "dont go into their place of habitat and disturb them..."...pardon me?  You bought land...and somehow believe the wildlife who lived on that land since the beginning of time are supposed to know it's "your" land now?  I suggest you ARE living on THEIR land  and it might behoove you to live in peace with them.

"In the Bible. god does say"..:?  Im sixty years of age and frankly, I doubt I will live enough years to point out to you, chapter and verse, every stupid, absurd, false, ridiculous statement in the bible.  However, if you are able/willing to buy that your Main Man was born of a virgin, raised the dead and cured lepers, ler alone that he rose from the dead himself... then I imagine believing man has "dominion" over animals was an easy one.  The book you quoted also says it's fine to sell your daughters into slavery, not to eat swine and not to cut your beard or hair.  Had a haircut or a BLT lately?  What's your daughter worth on the open slave market, would you say?  How is it, I wonder, that christians get to pick and choose the bits that serve them?

In the midst of the billions of Buddhists and Hindus on this planet who KNOW  all Life is sacred and only to be taken for food and who KNOW that there are as many paths to God as their are people Seeking...we have the Christians, The Muslims and the Jews, all religions founded in the middle east in a frickin desert by patriarchs ...bloodthirsty enough, convinced enough  of their "specialness" to God and certain enough that their "truth" is THE Truth... that each  killing off the other two must be  exactly what God wants.

Question:  What;s as dangerous as a faithful Muslim?
Answer: A faithful Christian.

Were it not for Constantine and that  escaped slave, Patricius (aka Patrick_, "driving the serpents" from Lesser Britain, we of western European decent would still be worshipping the Great Goddess, respecting all living beings and celebrating those real events of the Great Wheel, summer and winter solstice, spring and fall eqquinox, Beltane and Hallomas as we should be, not the mythical events of "virgin birth" and "rising from the dead"... a Religion preceeding JC by a hundred thousand years.

There never were snakes in Ireland, Wales or England.  The Druids wore the mystical tattoos of serpents around their wrists as a symbol of the Goddess and the Great Wheel--the snake swallowing itself.  History is, indeed, written by thee conquerquers.  The Old Religion was purged by the christians, never adverse to killing anybody who didnt see it their way.  You'd think a century or two of persecution might have taught them not to percecute others...but hey, when an integral part of your mythology is " I am THE way and THE Light and "Only thru ME shall you see the Kingdom of Heaven..."...well, there's your built in excuse for purging an entire culture, destroying artifacts, sacred places and re-writing history in your favor. As a result, we of the West now mostly follow a religion formed on the other sied of the planet with which we have NOTHING in common.  Enough swprds, and hey--you can do that!

I liked you a lot, Mr. K.  I relate to you as an "old timer", we who lived the Age orf Aquarius, we, the "Woodstock Generation".

I wish you had not said the magic words, "The Bible says..." to me.  Not that I dont appreciate the bible.  I used to have one.  However, one day I ran out of toilet paper.

LassChance


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## cubby (Jul 10, 2009)

Is'nt religion supposed to be a NONO?


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## LassChance (Jul 10, 2009)

cubby said:
			
		

> I don't bye into the the whole biblical nonsence, nor can you do what you wish with "your" land. But that being said raccoons are not endangered species, they are pesky vermin, their right to exist ends when become a nucance. If they stay in the woods where they belong I wont kill them, but when they negatively impact my standard of living "BOOM" thier gone.



I can respect that, Cubby.  I had a family of mice living in my heat vent last winter--I could hear the babies squeaking in there.   Still it was winter...and I couldnt blame a mom mouse for bringing her babies inside to a nice warm spot--my heat vent!

So, first I took a big aluminum bowl, smeared it with Wesson oil, put a big dollop of peanut butter in the bottom...and the next morning there were four baby mice in the bowl.  But mom wasnt there...maybe too big to not be able to jump out, maybe too smart to even go in in the first place.
Now I had a dilema!  The babies separated from the mom!  Couldnt stand that...so I wiped the oil off the kids and put them back in the heat vent.  That night, I heard the happy squeaking of reunion.
So...next day I went on line and found an ultrasonic device that makes a sound rodents hate...ordered it and plufgged it in!  Havent had a single rodent since then.

However, had it NOT worked, I expect sooner or later Id have had to set a mouse trap.  Thank goddess I didnt have to.

Last summer I was tripping with some friends down the road, old Hippies.  A Copperhead came swimming down the stream we were sitting by, and while we watched, he left the water and moved langoriously up the bank.  My friend jumped up to get his gun.  I slowly walked toward where the tall grass was rippling and sat down in it's path.  The snake finally reached where I sat, Indian style, perfectly still, in his path.  He moved toward me very cautiously, his tongue flicking . Remember, I was tripping!  and very consciously beaming love and peace his way.  When he reached me, he looked at me with either curiosity or disdain, but not fear, then moved along, about his snake biziness, right past me. When Brett got back with his gun, the snake had gone. I like snakes.  If he had chosen to explore me, climb up my body and wound himself around my neck, I would have considered it a great honor and even a Blessing. Im way too big to eat...and was not threatening him.  Why would he have bit me?



Lassie


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## LassChance (Jul 10, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> I was only poking, i'm not a bible freak, i won't be knocking on your door to preach anytime soon ,lol..
> 
> And i think we are stating the same thing.?.?
> Stay off my area and you live..................
> ...



Thank you, Mr. K. At least Im not weeping any more.
But please at least think about this:  ALL animals are "innocent".  Even the coyote who brings down a sheep, even the dog who goes after a chicken, even a coon hungry for sushi.  Their motive is food, not the thrill of the kill. ...let alone some "belief" he has a "right" to kill. Food, man.  To eat is his motive.This, if nothing more, sets them apart from humans. My question is....is there an "innocent " human?  Past the age of, say, 12? Can we kill everybody over 12 for their lack of "innocence"?

Let me put this question out there....I guess it's painfully clear I dont believe in killing except for food.  Will you (all) ponder this?  WHAT IF the majority of people on Spaceship Earth all saw things my way?  That killing is an act of possessiveness, unless we kill to eat?

What if Christians, Muslims and Jews agreed that ALL life is sacred to God, whatever name we call Him (or Her) by?

OMG!  WHAT IF we actually respected each others opinions even if we dont agree? That Allah, Yaweh and JC are ALL the SAME god?

What if, we all knew we dont "
own" land, the land owns us?  And we are blessed to call this or that piece, "mine"? What IF we copuld see a coon hunting for our Koi and say, "geeez, man...I guess I gotta build a cave for the fish to hide in...that little guy is hungry..." instead of running for a rifle?

OK, this is where the Chorus sings, "We are the world...we are the chjillun..."

Im just saying.  We DO have the potential to rise above our killing instincts.

LassChance


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 10, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> ... blah
> 
> ... blah
> 
> ...



PriestofKnowledge is back!


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 10, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> BLT
> 
> LassChance


 
That means bacon lettuce and tomatoes here.


Lass, you know the rules, you have passed the line.

Maybe its best to remove what you pasted.

This is a really interesting thread, do you really want to spoil it?

Kneejerk is within all of us, so is taking 10 to calm a bit before lighting the powder.

Which did you choose?

eace:


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 10, 2009)

ArtVandolay said:
			
		

> PriestofKnowledge is back!


 
You are sooo funny sometimes, you really do make me sit here and laugh to myself.

You have quite a gift of reading from the corner and seeing something from an angle unusual.

You could make a career from what you possess.

eace:


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 10, 2009)

I doubt that career stuff.  I'm just happy to have found a good woman that can put up with me .


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## SPEARCHUCKER (Jul 10, 2009)

I just want to randomly step in and say. Im hammered.
So these huge long paragraphs. I just cant do.
If cliff note versions can be attached with them. Please do so. 
Thank You!


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## LassChance (Jul 10, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> well he ain't no Jerry Clower...
> 
> I found lass's response confused/confusing, also. Interesting that it's "ok" for the coons to assert _their_ place in the 'food chain, but not so for effen to assert 'his' dominant position over them in the same natural chain... :confused2:
> No offense intended Lass, but I find responses like that are most often "emotionally" based,(_poor_ li'l racoons) and really do not reflect reality or 'good common sense'.  The fact is, the coons are an imminent threat to not only his family and pets, but to the entire neighborhoods families, pets, gardens, ect.
> ...



This is an excellent queston, Hick.
I have four dogs and a couple of cats at this time, have had as many as a dozen dogs at a time, LOL.  I moved from Atlanta to the mountanis of western NC seven years ago and almost immediately began taking in homeless dogs.  It took a while to learn that the mountain folks still do things the way their fathers did---and spaying or neutering  animals is not common.  So, literally dozens (well, hundreds) of homeless dogs and cats too---wander the roads, searching for food.

But I digress.  Anyway, I noticed that my (many!) dogs seem to have a certain...well, what I call, "Doggy Politics"!  Say one has a chew toy.  The others do NOT attempt to take it, BUT they WILL sit and watch....waiting for the moment the dog-with-the-toy momentarily forgets, is distracted...and walks away.  THEN, some other dog can take the toy.
Now...the first dog, the one who did have the toy....seems to understand he has losat the right to it.  He wont rtry to re-take it...he will join the watchers, waiting pariently for the new toy owner to momentarily lose his focus and walk away.

or even just LOOK away!

But...the thing is...arent we, as humans...supposed to be a "higher" life form?
I knew this woman when I was 14 who worked in a lab.  I was very impressed because she wore a white lab coat, was a "grown up" and drove a car.  She worked at Emory University in one of the drug labs.  She said to me that sometimes she held a lab rat in her hands and felt a rush knowing she held the power of life and death over the mouse/rat.  She could "test" that rat with a new drug OR give it the placebo, at her whim. She said, "
Sometimes, I just hold a white mouse and think, I could just squeeze it til it dies if I want to."
Then she said, "But you know what?  I also realize I can also choose NOT to...and let it live...and that's power, too."

For reasons I can only guess at, we humans do hold that power over every living creature.  Yes, we CAN kill them ...if they eat our Koi, if they steal a sheep, if they bite our kid, if they...are just there and we dont want them to be.  We have that power.

But we CAN choose NOT to kill them.

They say there are "no atheists in a foxhole".  LOL, well, prolly not.
There are also no atheists when he has cancer, or his kid has been diagnosed with leuikemia.  Trust, me, anybody will quickly become religious when their kid is diagnosed with a fatal illmess. You will pray, find a Voodoo woman..., go to Lourdes..whatever.

So...we humans, we powerful humans...will pray to a god we didnt even believe in yesterday...to please save the life of our kid, our spouse, ourselves.  We beg for mercy, for compassion, for healing to this Being that may or may NOT be there.

Now...I dont expect a raccoon prays much.  or a lab rat.  Or even my beloved dogs.  But I do know this:  every living being, even a paramecium, may opnly have one "thought", but that "thought" is, "I want to live." We all want, 100%, whether we're a rat or a human...to live. Is my 100% bigger than a coons 100%?

To a coon, dog, cat, frog, fish...we ARE god.  If they could pray...we would be the God they address, "Please, let me live."

Maybe there is a God who hears our little human prayers.  Maybe not.  I dont know.  But I know I HOPE there is.  And I hope He/She/It will hear me and let me live.
Just...live.

So...how different am I from a coon, coyote, lab rat?    Am I really more special, more beloved by God?  Frankly, If I were God...I wouldnt be putting the humans in First Place.

We all want to live, feed our young and just....live.

Can we pray to that God that may be there to save out kid from cancer while at the same time, managing to not notice the coon that offers the same prayer for survival to US, the "gods" of his universe? Can we hope for compassion when we dont also give it?  IF God is dissapointed by ANY of His/Her/It's Creations...which species do you suppose it is?

As if...we humans really are special,. somehow? Yes, we have bigger brains...and free will.  And just LOOK what we've done with those Gifts!

Karma is karma.  We all kind of get it.  If you extend compassion, you have a better chance of receiving compassion.

You CAN shoot the coon, stab the bear with a spear, squeeze the lab mouse.  You bet.  You have that power.

But you also have the power to choose NOT to. Out of simple empathy for a Being over whom you have the power of Life and Death, just as God holds that same Power over you and me.

Which decision puts you in a position to ask for mercy/compassion/healing from the God of Man?

This is just me talking now and I dont know crap.   But I do have a .45 in a towel up in the closet and I COULD kill me a possum coon, stray dog, coyote, hell I could shoot a bluejay. Woowoo.  I choose NOT to.

Why do I own a gun?  LOL...because somebody gave it to me, actually, saying he was worried about me, an "old blind broad living alone".  And really, I DO feel better, just knowing it's there.  I do.  For one thing, IF one of my dogs got hit by a car, mauled by a bear or wild hog and was seriously hurt, Im glad I have a method to stop his suffering instantly.

Where I live, I havent even locked my door, go to town and leave the front door standing wide open.  I LOVE this place!  In Atlanta, I uused to have to nudge the occassional wino awake in my yard, saying, "listen man...you gotta GO."  Hookers were blowing guys in my driveway!  LOL!  I didnt even own the damn gun then...but now, well, Im a gun owner and glad of it.  I prob oughta take it out of the guestroom closet and take it down to my room....in case some Ice junky breaks in, and doesnt get eaten by the dogs...would I shoot an intruder?


BET YER ***!

Why?

Because a HUMAN who chooses to break in to MY house oughta KNOW BETTER.   This makes him unlike a coon, a possum or a rattlesnake. If I found a rattler in my bed, Id get him out of my house, you bet...but without klilling him.  A human crack addict choosing to hit the old blind lady's house...has made a serious error in judgement.

Okay.  Ive had my macha moment.  In truth, yeah, Id shoot...but Id prolly aim at his knee and give him a serious lecture while waiting for the damn ambulance.


Lassie


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## Hick (Jul 11, 2009)

> "no atheists in a foxhole".........we ARE god....we would be the God they address....the "gods" of his universe...God is dissapointed...just as God holds


hee hee.. and I was concerned about this turning into a politcal thread..

Whether by grace of someones God, or because I have a larger brain, free will and an articulating thumb... I AM king of my domain.  I guess it all boils down to "how" we choose to impose our will on that domain that is important.
   I refuse to discuss religious aspects, IMO it has nothing to do with the subject. Muslim, christian, jewish, buhdists, ect.. all _"preach"_ of the sanctity of life, unfortunately they have all failed at some point in history of 'practicing' what they 'preach'.. and I'm not a huge follower or fan of any of them.
We aren't going to agree on many of the finer points, I can see that...
   But I would like to comment on a couple of your statements.. "doggy politics"..
 In any "pack" or family group, there is always an alpha.. a dominate individual.. If that alpha were to want the chew toy, all it requires is a very subtle gesture, probably not even noticed by someone unfamiliar with canine communication. A slight 'lip curl'.. or simply a dominate stance, head held above the lesser dog, tail held high. Any challenge to superiority is not tolerated in a nature.   

Something we DO agree on, is the " a HUMAN who chooses to break in to MY house oughta KNOW BETTER."..."would I shoot an intruder?


BET YER ***!"
  Absolutely!... and I would also assume that the intruder had "intention to harm". Premeditated intention... and would recieve no compassion. 
A word of advice  the kneecap is a pretty small target  aim dead center. He can listen to your lecture just as well with a hole in his belly as in his leg, and you're far more likely to make the shot 
  Glad you got out of Atlanta  sounds like a real nice place.


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## dirtyolsouth (Jul 11, 2009)

hXXp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDfmPSrPGqE


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## LassChance (Jul 11, 2009)

ArtVandolay said:
			
		

> There's an awful lot of bad language in that thar post .  And I don't subscribe to any of your **, especially your "All Life is Sacred" theory.  I repeat - a 12 gauge and/or a .22 in the head is an effective solution to a real problem.



O I DO so hate to offend!  Im sure the words I used have NEVER passed YOUR lips!
" 12 gauge and/or a .22 in the head is an effective solution to a real problem"
Truer words were never spoken.  Especially when you add the little smiley faces.  Who could possibly disagree with such sage wisdom as that?  If something pisses you off, by all means, blow it's head off.  That's certainly been the credo of Mankind for 100,000 years or so, give or take...and just look how well it's worked for us so far.

Of course, things have changed since Cro Magnon times.  Back then, we used big rocks to bash each other's heads in. Now we're civilized, doncha know, enlightened. No need for messy close-up killing, anymore. Thanks to Modern Technology, hey...we can now kill small animals or humans from a nice, safe bloodless distance.
"
Got a PROBLEM?  SHOOT IT!"

So...since I have this problem with this neighbor who wants to kill my dogs...should I use the 12 guage, a .22 or my own .45, do you think?

Reason I ask is, hey a coon is just a coon and a Koi is just a fish...but a lowlife fifth grade educated mortar forker ice hole who DARES to threaten MY dogs...well, that Sunny Beach NEEDFS to die.
Dont you think?

Lassie


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## LassChance (Jul 11, 2009)

tcbud said:
			
		

> I would like you kind people to know I will not be shooting or paintballing any dogs.  I have been putting up with the dog crap, and do miss the deer grazing near my home, for years now.  They are my nieghbors and there will be no fued over something like this.  I live in the woods, You would think the dogs could find a place away from the house.  Mostly they do.
> 
> I live with animals and enjoy the heck out of them, these animals all have ticks and fleas.  They are wild.  When in a pinch in my life I have eaten poached deer, easier to eat than poached eggs.
> 
> ...



Man...I wish YOU were my neighbor!

Lassie


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## LassChance (Jul 11, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> great post tc, I think we're in total agreement  ....and to elaborate on my "paintball" post, I caught one of these dogs (a BIG St bernard no less) exiting "my" chicken coop, with one of "my" chickens in his mouth.
> I contacted my local deputy. He informed me that I was perfectly within my rights to shoot and kill "any" threat to my animals or personal property. IMO.. as a farmer/rancher, "animal lover", it is not only my 'right', but my _duty_ to protect 'my' domestic animals.
> Now, I know the ppl that own the dogs. I kow some have children and these are their 'pets'. I would never want to injure or kill any kids pet, and that is exactly what I told the deputy. But you know what?.. after sending only two home with paintball on them, the problem ceased! I didn't have the unsavory chore of killing anything, or "seeing" my personal property destroyed.
> The same ppl that condemn the dog, coyote, wolfe, bear, 'coon, ect.(predator) shooting, would also be the first to condemn me if I were not feeding, watering, or otherwise "taking care" of them properly as abuse.
> ...



It may surprise you, but I wholeheartedly support and agree with you.
In the Old Days, folks would load their shotguns with rock salt and it's amazing how a butt-load of salt tends to make bears, dogs, coons and coyotes NOT come back to your land.


Lassie


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## cubby (Jul 11, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> O I DO so hate to offend! Im sure the words I used have NEVER passed YOUR lips!
> " 12 gauge and/or a .22 in the head is an effective solution to a real problem"
> Truer words were never spoken. Especially when you add the little smiley faces. Who could possibly disagree with such sage wisdom as that? If something pisses you off, by all means, blow it's head off. That's certainly been the credo of Mankind for 100,000 years or so, give or take...and just look how well it's worked for us so far.
> 
> ...


 


    The man told you to keep your dogs off his property. He has every right NOT to have your animals on his land.So if you alow your dogs on his property it's YOUR fault when they get shot. Regardless of local ordinances, pets, whether they be dogs,cats or whatever should be resonably and responsibly kept on thier owners property. I am a lifetime dog owner but if your dogs came on my property, after you had been told to keep them off, I would feel bad, but they would still be dead.
People who take position that because you live "out in woods" you can allow your pet to roam free are not responsible pet owners. When they leave your property you have surrendered that animals health and safety to the whims of your niehbors. If they are shot, poisoned, or run over by a car you're at fault. If your willing to let them wander freely you don't care about thier welfare thier just an accessorie to your ego and existance. 
   You try to sound like, and probably believe you are, a good steward of your animals. But regardless of how friendly your animals might be if you're allowing them to roam around outside of your sight and control, your not.
If you can't see them and don't know where they are, they might as well be abandoned. If they are not inside a fenced in enclosure they are succeptable to attacks by cruel people, other stray dogs, or rabbid wildlife.
   Before you take issue and act in a holier than thou manner in regards to how people safegaurd thier property from marauding vermin, take a few minuets to prevent your animals from becoming the kind of wandering pests someone might want to shoot. As much as you might like to see yourself as an animal rights supporter the fact of the matter is ANIMALS DON"T HAVE RIGHTS. They exist at mans mercy. When they become problematic (or plump and tasty) thier done.


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## tcbud (Jul 11, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> Man...I wish YOU were my neighbor!
> 
> Lassie


 
If you were my neighbor, would you keep your dogs off my property? keep their **** on yours? keep them from chasing deer and fox? keep them from digging nice holes in my bank as they go after ground squirels? In otherwords would you contain your dogs, chain, cage or otherwise constrain?  If so, I wish you were my neighbor too.  Maybe we could even share a cuppa tea and a bong hit or two?  Or would you let your dogs run free and do what my neighbors dogs do?
Dogs and cats dont have "rights", beyond being treated humanely.  Here they (dogs and cats) are considered property.  And at my home considered a nuisance, tho they do go home when I yell at them, or head that way anyway.  I dont consider it "humane" to allow your animals out of your imediate juristiction (no farther from you than you can see them in other words).

And I still think Racoons should not be "baited".  People should take some responsiblity for all trash or "bait" left in the yard.  If something gets into it, fix the problem, lock it up, nail it down.  No more problem.  Tho with effin here, I am still thinkin' the dead racoons relatives are gonna get him.


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 11, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> O I DO so hate to offend!  Im sure the words I used have NEVER passed YOUR lips!
> " 12 gauge and/or a .22 in the head is an effective solution to a real problem"
> Truer words were never spoken.  Especially when you add the little smiley faces.  Who could possibly disagree with such sage wisdom as that?  If something pisses you off, by all means, blow it's head off.  That's certainly been the credo of Mankind for 100,000 years or so, give or take...and just look how well it's worked for us so far.
> 
> ...



I knew you would come around, Lass!  How does it feel for the sun to shine on you for a change?   If you need any help with anything else, just let me know.  Glad to help 

Oh, one more thing.  I don't make the rules here, I just pointed out that you broke them .


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## LassChance (Jul 11, 2009)

BBFan said:
			
		

> I thought cracker was a slur about a white person of low intelligence or class.



Bingo.  That's exactly right. The stereotypical image of a Southerner as a trailer dwelling, cousin marrying, hard drinking fundamentalist member of the KKK who beats his wife and kids is all too common.  Noooo...those are crackers, not Southerners in general.  Crackers give Southerners a bad name.

Lassie


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## LassChance (Jul 11, 2009)

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> It has been scientifically proven that carrots "Scream" to their bretheren when you pull them out of the ground.
> 
> I am willing to make the claim that cannabis also emits high amounts of pheramones when you start cutting them down.
> 
> ...



Sage advice, Im sure.
However, Ive lived in Brooklyn and east Baltimore.  So, it takes something a bit bigger and a great deal badder than a raccoon to scare me.


LassChance


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## cadlakmike1 (Jul 11, 2009)

I kill a groundhog about once a week.  The only ones I shoot are the ones that go into my garden.  1" outside the garden I won't shoot, the second they touch one of the plants that I am growing for food, I shoot, those are the rules of engagement I have put in place for myself.  Technically, I could shoot every one of them I see, they are a nuisance animal in my area, I choose to only shoot the ones that touch my food.

Some people say that using a gun is inhumane.  I use a .223, more than adequate caliber for something so small, nothing that size suffers with a direct hit from that.  I'm very good with that firearm, and my garden is well within my range so my shots are accurate, single, kill shots.  Now some on here would like to bring up the food chain and debate what is natural and what is not.  The groundhogs are only doing what is natural, and I have no intentions of eating them, so does that make me wrong?  Or is it ok to defend one's food?  IMO, the food chain does not just include killing for food, it includes defending your food.  If I just scared the animal away he would be back the next day.  I'm not going to trap him and take him to someone elses farm so he can do the same thing to them.  

I too own a pitbull.  He weighs about 98 lbs and is very game.  Best dog I have ever owned in my life exceptionally well trained.  SCHI CH.  Some on here have seen pictures of him, I've posted them on this site.  Would it be more natural for me to give him the ok to get it?  Unintentionally he has gotten a hold of several small nuisance animals that unknowingly wandered into the wrong yard.  I can assure you it isn't pretty, but he will eat what he kills.  (until Dad(me) catches what he is doing and promptly puts an end to it).  My mind will not be changed, I am an avid supporter of wildlife organizations, but my house is my castle, nothing(beast or person) will take food away from me without a fight.  

Effen, based on some of your previous posts I am sure you are an accurate shot.  Your pellet gun is a .177 caliber weapon.  They do make .177 guns that fire actual bullets specifically for varmint.  I would look into one, they are really quiet, your neighbors probably wouldn't even realize you fired a gun.  You could even add a scope to it depending on the range at which you are firing.  I'm sorry for you loss, I really enjoy a nice pond.  While some on here may bash you for doing what you did, I support it.  Those were your pets, what makes them less valuable than a cat or a dog?  I assure you that if a bear came, and was attacking any persons dog on here they would not just sit by and watch, even though the bear is higher on the food chain.  Everything is relative and you can't judge someone for their decisions when there morals might differ from your own.  It is ok to disagree quietly, but no need to bash.  I am really rambling, sorry, but I hope I got my point across.


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## 420benny (Jul 12, 2009)

Well put Mike! We are on the same page. I don't go looking for raccoons to kill, but when they  break in to my chicken or duck pen to kill my animals, then out comes the 12 gauge, and I don't quit until the problem is solved. I love animals of all kinds, but there are rules at benny's house, too. Mess with my family, pets or possessions and you will pay.


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## mr.greengenes (Jul 12, 2009)

:holysheep: What a thread! It's true what they say about animals making good human interest stories. And yes, I do mercilessly kill bugs that attack my plants. I knew a neighbor who trapped a racoon and drove a steel spike through it to kill it. I thought that was pretty gruesome. Anyway, my 2 cents is to trap it and drown it or something. This is probably one of the most interesting threads I've ever read.


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## tcbud (Jul 12, 2009)

LassChance said:
			
		

> Bingo. That's exactly right. The stereotypical image of a Southerner as a trailer dwelling, cousin marrying, hard drinking fundamentalist member of the KKK who beats his wife and kids is all too common. Noooo...those are crackers, not Southerners in general. Crackers give Southerners a bad name.
> 
> Lassie


 
So...You knew what you were saying when you slurred your neighbors with that "Cracker" comment.  And I thot you didnt know.  I take back what I said in the PM I sent you and you never replied to.  Never did you say a word after I called you a bigot, I guess I know why now, you my not friend are one.


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## LassChance (Jul 12, 2009)

cadlakmike1 said:
			
		

> I kill a groundhog about once a week.  The only ones I shoot are the ones that go into my garden.  1" outside the garden I won't shoot, the second they touch one of the plants that I am growing for food, I shoot, those are the rules of engagement I have put in place for myself.  Technically, I could shoot every one of them I see, they are a nuisance animal in my area, I choose to only shoot the ones that touch my food.
> 
> Some people say that using a gun is inhumane.  I use a .223, more than adequate caliber for something so small, nothing that size suffers with a direct hit from that.  I'm very good with that firearm, and my garden is well within my range so my shots are accurate, single, kill shots.  Now some on here would like to bring up the food chain and debate what is natural and what is not.  The groundhogs are only doing what is natural, and I have no intentions of eating them, so does that make me wrong?  Or is it ok to defend one's food?  IMO, the food chain does not just include killing for food, it includes defending your food.  If I just scared the animal away he would be back the next day.  I'm not going to trap him and take him to someone elses farm so he can do the same thing to them.
> 
> ...



I can dig it.  I dont see anything wrong about protecting your food pets and family.  It sounds as if you only kill for those purposes. I dont hear any note of revenge, or "How dare they! I'll show em...." in your post. It isnt about killing for the sake of Ego.
Whether a Koi qualifies as a pet , suggesting an exchange of affection, or an ornament...or whether a bear is higher than a dog on the food chain are arguable, but screw it.  It's way too fine a point and not worth the trouble.

Perhaps Im too subtle of mind, but IMO, having the "one inch away" rule in protecting your veggie garden and blowing away a fish eating coon becaue you can are miles apart.  TThat you could have a "one mile" rule or an "anywhere on MY land!" rule but have chosen one inch suggests (well, shouts) that respect for critters and innate compassion reign in your character, which is clearly pretty evolved.

LassChance


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## tcbud (Jul 12, 2009)

Lass,
I guess your compassion for animals supercedes compassion for Humans.


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## LassChance (Jul 12, 2009)

tcbud said:
			
		

> So...You knew what you were saying when you slurred your neighbors with that "Cracker" comment.  And I thot you didnt know.  I take back what I said in the PM I sent you and you never replied to.  Never did you say a word after I called you a bigot, I guess I know why now, you my not friend are one.



I wonder...what part mof the country fo you live in?  Iappreciated your PM more than you know and thought my replies on the board had suffienently explained my position.  Im very sorry.

The land here in the Smokies is as beautiful as any land on Earth. You cant swing a dead cat and not hit a stream, spring or lake.  Fish and game are abundant and the land is fertile and the summers long.

So it kinda gets your attention after you live here a while that the locals no longer farm their land but prefer wellfare checks and Walmart to growing and canning. Every road, stream and trail are the personal toilets and garbage dumps and to finish off a six pack in your truck and toss the cans out the window is standard.  The same cracker I spoke of lives upstream from me and I have seen him dump paint, kerosene and the remains of a one gallon container of Round Up INTO the stream.  He has a "right" to do this,you see, because it's "his" stream, at least the part he dumps in is his and where the toxins go or what damage they do are not his problem.

There are no "leash" laws, let alone spay and neuter, so all the dogs produce a couple litters a year and when the puppies are weaned, you drop them off in a carddboard box at the nearest dump. You cant drive to town wiothout passing half a dozen starving dogs on the road.

Are ALL mountain people crackers?  No.  Only the ones who disrespect their land, their waters and their animals and wildlife.

Now...if despising these ignorant  SOB's indicates bigotry, LOL, then indeed I must be a bigot. I have no love and nothing but contempt for them... (reminder:  Im not speaking of mountain people--only the despoilers among them) which works out pretty evenly, since Im  representative of all they fear and loathe, too.  Im one of those obnoxious "city sonsabitches" who is foolish enough to think our waters and land should be kept pristeen and dogs and cats should be spayed.  Im just unreasonable, that way.  It seems I am a defender not only of animals, but of land and waters, too.

And I have no apologies to make for it.

Regardless...it's been fun and it's been real and thank you all for teaching me SO much about Growing MJ.

 It was never my intention to besmirch these halls with my bigotry....   but I didnt know Im a bigot. now that I know, I can sure take it out,  and yes, I'll be careful to not let the door slap me in the butt on my way out.

 best of luck to all Growers Special thanks to TCBud and Hick.

LassChance


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## tcbud (Jul 12, 2009)

If you came here to learn about growing why all the stuff on animal rights?
I personally dont get into threads like this often, I was really enjoying the thread, as effin is in the midst of the suburban spral and having critter problems.  I do take exception Lass when someone calls people names of a derogotory nature.  I take offence.  I am mostly here to enjoy the forums and grow my plants.
I am sorry you live in a state that does not take the environment seriously.  I pity the dogs you mention.  There are no leash laws outside citys or county juristicton here, so....as a neighbor of a dog lover, I put up with their crap.  I also put up with tree huggers changing the laws about logging, and children suffer due to less moneys at school that logging brought.  I recycle, I stay home unless I absolutely need to go to town, I vote.  I try to get along with people Lass, I try to be possitive, I held out an olive branch to you, speaking of letting a door slap me in the ***....  You on the other hand, have been name calling long enough, you got lousy neighbors. Bummer.
Lets get to growing and let this crap go.  I am willing.  What have you got growin?
peace Lass.  This is really a very nice place, give it a real chance.


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 12, 2009)

ArtVandolay said:
			
		

>


 
You are bad :rofl:

eace:


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## mr.greengenes (Jul 12, 2009)

I'm as guilty as anyone of breaking the rules of posting on this site. IMHO this thread did break a lot of rules with respect to acts of violence, etc. Lass, let cooler heads prevail and take awhile to think about the controversy. This is a great site and you did make some excellent points though many I would admit that I don't agree with.


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## Tater (Jul 12, 2009)

> Id pay money to see you or Effin Gee armed with a jacknife taking a full grown male raccoon on.
> No chance of that, eh? Nah...you might get hurt! Better to hide in the bush and aim thru a scope...



I'll do it.  Catching and killing stuff is my specialty, but always with a reason.  Or at least a reason I'm ok with.  Its funny that you mention the lack of interaction in killing/hunting now a days with the advent of long range rifles and scopes.  Its the exact reason I have started to go backwards and no longer hunt with a rifle.  Now I use bows, eventually I would like to try spears, or atlatels, heck a few years back I tried stalking a deer that had bedded down and tried to get on its back to stab it in the throat with a knife.  I failed but its was a great experience.  Foods gotta come from somewhere, and I refuse to eat the chemically fed "enhanced" bullcrap in the stores.

Oh and just so everyone knows their is a big difference between living in the woods with services up to your house and garbage collection and people living around you even if they are a few miles away, and living in the freaking woods.  Walk into northern Alberta, BC or any area like it that is uninhabited and a gun is a must.  We are at the top of the food chain, period.  

As far as choosing not to kill things goes, I make that choice everyday.  I stop my vehicle for cats crossing the road even though I despise them, I don't stop my truck and shoot coyotes just because I saw one, I buy liscences and don't poach.  Learn a bit about conservation (I mean real conservation not this all life is precious crap cause sometimes killins just got to get done.)

Also sitting in front of that copperhead was a stupid position to put yourself in and that animal.  If it had of attacked you it would then need to be destroyed and you would be the proud owner of a couple of really nifty puncture wounds.  You're lucky you didn't learn the lesson Timothy Treadwell did.  There's another idealistic tree hugger who found out the hard way that  nature can be *****.


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 12, 2009)

Don't you see what's happening?

Within 30,000 years the Earth has become a small place.

When a species develops too prosperously it will naturally expand, like a virus grown in a petri dish, the only way to keep it in check and keep its numbers down is for nature and extraneous events to slow or minimise its over efficiency.

This is where death arrives.

Death is not our enemy, it is a line where once crossed, the genus has expanded too far.

eace:


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## mr.greengenes (Jul 12, 2009)

Death is not our enemy, it is a line where once crossed, the genus has expanded too far.

eace:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, maybe...except for my 87 year old mother in-law. She refuses to die and I've given up trying to help her. But seriously, my wife and I are trying to talk her son into giving her medical cannabis so it will improve her appetite.


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## Hick (Jul 13, 2009)

> Regardless...it's been fun and it's been real and thank you all for teaching me SO much about Growing MJ.
> 
> It was never my intention to besmirch these halls with my bigotry.... but I didnt know Im a bigot. now that I know, I can sure take it out, and yes, I'll be careful to not let the door slap me in the butt on my way out.
> 
> best of luck to all Growers Special thanks to TCBud and Hick.



now see.... "WHY" we don't care for all the 'off topic' subjects?..  
lass was warmly greeted, treated kindly, and perfectly happy at MP,  as long as we remained talking about MJ cultivation. I'm betting even the killing of pesty mites, gnats, slugs, ect. would be acceptable. 
  But now, because of her views on subjects _totally_ unrelated, we may have lost an otherwise great member.  
  I'm sure, if I were to fully express my opinions on these subjects, I would be labled a 'right wing nut job'. NO doubt.  And would probably make some enemies here. Not unlike lass' has.


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 13, 2009)

yeh its great to kill tings spec humans not in2 killin no critters thou wen no arms bin dun cept sum stoopid fishs eten up which is nather int it
Time4Plan-B


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 13, 2009)

hi tc i noticed lass apolagised fer her comment even thou she dint mean it dat way.
shes no biggot man.
so why u comment or defend on all dis animul rites den.
so u agris on animel crulty dus ya.
pelet in da left eye den stabed to deth...so funny dat.
Time4Plan-B.
cop an ak n spray dats the mentality of kids 2day


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 13, 2009)

English, please?


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## UKgirl420 (Jul 13, 2009)

you write with the mentality of a school kid ,,,,,

i dont mean any disrespect  but i could hardley fathom out more than a few sentances eace:


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## ArtVandolay (Jul 13, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> ...


I'm a right wing nut job, too.  Tea, anyone? :hubba:

You said you might have to close this thread


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## gourmet (Jul 13, 2009)

We have the same problem in our ponds but we simply net them over.  In addition to raccoons we also have seagulls.

Coyote urine is somewhat useful for raccoon, depending on if you just have one raccoon or many raccoons.


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## cubby (Jul 13, 2009)

Time4Plan-B said:
			
		

> hi tc i noticed lass apolagised fer her comment even thou she dint mean it dat way.
> shes no biggot man.
> so why u comment or defend on all dis animul rites den.
> so u agris on animel crulty dus ya.
> ...


 



WHAT?


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## HippyInEngland (Jul 14, 2009)

Time4Plan-B said:
			
		

> hi tc i noticed lass apolagised fer her comment even thou she dint mean it dat way.
> shes no biggot man.
> so why u comment or defend on all dis animul rites den.
> so u agris on animel crulty dus ya.
> ...


 
So many spelling mistakes yet your introduction to the forum was error free.

 

Join Date: *07-14-2009*

*eace:*


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## nvthis (Jul 14, 2009)

Time4Plan-B said:
			
		

> hi tc i noticed lass apolagised fer her comment even thou she dint mean it dat way.
> shes no biggot man.
> so why u comment or defend on all dis animul rites den.
> so u agris on animel crulty dus ya.
> ...


 
There is no way on earth anyone could possibly spell this poorly while maintaining any kind of definable grip on the English language. There is a mindful sentence structure, proper spacing and a relatively remote intelligence (and I mean _relatively_, as in my hip hop rapping 13th cousin 9 times removed from the backwoods of Oklahoma). Pure poser. 

"kids 2day" wear their jeans around their knees and their boxers up to their elbows and talk just.....Like.....You!:rofl: 

Look, if you want to make friends here, don't try to pretend to be something you are not.... Unless, of course, you are just Papabeach1 reincarnated. Why, then, I guess it's ok  Fan leaf?:48:


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