# Butane testing thread.



## OGKushman

I have yet to see a can of butane leave *nothing *behind. 

I would like members of the forum to take their butane and follow this test procedure, post results please. 

1. press butane can tip against mirror
2. drain butane for 2 seconds
3. dry with hair dryer
4. tilt mirror into light and snap a pic 
5. tell us the brand


thanks guys!

oh! and this is Power 7X super refined


----------



## OGKushman

No one else? I'll go buy some other cans in the name of science if I have to :rofl:

A little more digging and I quickly discovered this residue is likely Sulfur from the hydrogen sulfide in all butane.

**I am not a doctor but...ewwwww


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

:ciao:   *OGkush*

Ive never done butain extraction...whats the purpose of this test?...to find a butain that doesnt leave a resadue behind?...I think they all will as it is an aresol product....Ill see what they have at the store later to help ya out

take care and be safe


----------



## OGKushman

I have been told many times that certain butanes are "pure" and have yet to find one. I do own an extractor but don't use it anymore after the 7x i had left a white residue in my Pyrex. Doesn't mean I don't like BHO...just that I'm concerned for other fellow smokers


----------



## Growdude

anybody ever try this test with the cheapest crap stuff to see if you can see any difference?

I used the Vector 5x but never tryed this test.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Oh..This is good stuff here...even though I have never tried BHO...

So sorry *OGKUSH *brother..I will look again tomarrow...was very busy tooday


*GrowDude*...Much respect brother..What would be the cheapest??..I seen some crap at grocery store....never got into refilling lighters  but You and *OG *has caught my intrest...mostly that of a test

Butaine and fire???

take care and be safe:bolt::bong:


----------



## Graywolf

OGKushman said:
			
		

> No one else? I'll go buy some other cans in the name of science if I have to :rofl:
> 
> A little more digging and I quickly discovered this residue is likely Sulfur from the hydrogen sulfide in all butane.
> 
> **I am not a doctor but...ewwwww


 

Hydrogen sulfide smells and tastes like rotten eggs and is detectible inparts per billionth, so a sniff should answer your question. 

I suspect it is the <50ppm oleaginous waxes (paraffin) that typicallycontaminates butane.

It doesn't matter that it is only .000050 parts of the whole, if you spray down(1) whole, you still have 50 pieces left behind.


----------



## OGKushman

Paraffin wax makes sense. So that's why fat BHO hash oil globe hits taste like a a Duraflame fire log.
I'm done with BHO though. Can't stand knowing that stuff is in there.


----------



## Irish

wax on, wax off grasshopper...


----------



## niteshft

If you are going to smoke weed you are going to smoke wax. MJ has waxes in it as well as oils and other stuff. You're making a big deal out of nothing, really. You are consuming petroleum products every day.


----------



## OGKushman

I use ceramic plates, aluminum water bottle, stainless flatware, glass smoking pieces, store weed in mason jars.......

Stay as far away from petroleum products as possible. 


Just had a buddy come by today and bring his bubble bag system...never made bubble from my trim before, only butter/ISO/BHO...I think he convinced me. It bubbles and tastes SO GOOD. And it came from water


----------



## OGKushman

Man it's so tasty. The terpenes are def still in there...


----------



## Hick

:cool2: ....


----------



## NorCalHal

Shoot thru glass tubes. Shoot into pyrex placed on a small burner, this will evap all butane aprts. There is more to it, but my boys kill it with this method. Amber Glass.


----------



## OGKushman

That won't get rid of the wax and other solids that don't evap^ 


:rofl: @ my duraflame log comment again . I forgot about that.


----------



## OGKushman

Doing some more searching...



> "you are planning on doing this to the butane ran extracts right? A fat and wax removal process?"
> 
> No my game plan was to use hexane first, than after vacuum purge, add ethanol (95% beverage grade), winterize, coffee filter, than activated carbon, than coffee filter, finally syringe filter - 0.2um finally vacuum purge.
> 
> Anyways, I though hexane was for the primary extraction. Could be wrong.
> 
> Whatever goes first ethanol or hexane, im definitely doing either hexane, heptane, or pentane. Though I think I have a lead for a batch of hexane used for soy bean oil processing (so should be a good product).




These dudes are nuts with their extractions...anyone who wants to learn some cool chemistry here is the link... (sorry about the bad language but it's the link )

hXXp://www.fuckcombustion.com/threads/abv-concentrate-experiment-what-method-is-best.4331/


----------



## Growdude

OGKushman said:
			
		

> That won't get rid of the wax and other solids that don't evap^
> 
> 
> :rofl: @ my duraflame log comment again . I forgot about that.


 

I dont believe there is wax in butane, not like that glass is showing.
That would plug up a butane lighter the first use.

There is more to it we arnt getting.


----------



## OGKushman

Growdude said:
			
		

> I dont believe there is wax in butane, not like that glass is showing.
> That would plug up a butane lighter the first use.
> 
> There is more to it we arnt getting.


There really isnt. What do you mean you dont believe it? It's wax and heavy metals.

 I've been doing a lot of research about this lately and I have come to the conclusion that there are FAR better substances to do extractions with.


----------



## ozzydiodude

Ice and ice cold water as simple and natural as it gets.


----------



## NorCalHal

All I can say is my boys are making a concentrate with no impurites at all, and from butane extraction. It has been testing at 80% and is perfectly clear. It goes for BIG money.  Personally, I don't make it at all, so I am not sure the exact steps they do, but I know they use a double boiler also.
There is a HUGE new trend called "Dabs", and it is catching on big time. I too have bought a "dab" rig for my bong, and it is truly one hitter quiter.

I was taken off guard recently at a party that Steep Hill labs thru. All the big players were there, including the De 'angelo's and many NORML folks. No one was smoking herb. I was saddened. They ALL were taking "dabs". Concentrate only. 

Anyone familar with what I am talking about?


----------



## OGKushman

Hal u remember a while back when I posted the hash oil globe on the forum from my local shop called Aqua Lab Technologies? No one had seen it. I have since retired it and no longer want to smoke that waxy crud. Take a "dab" as big as you can, milk it yellow and taste that lovely crap in it. It tastes like a candle, I had said it before I knew there was crap in it that this stuff doesn't feel right. You can't boil out the crap that's in it. Your friends ever do a mass spec on a sample? I'd like to...

This is a petroleum byproduct. Not safe no matter what your friends tell you. It goes for big money because most people don't know or care what they are smoking. CO2 extract is much better and tastier, not to mention does not contain petroleum and gives you a more pure product.

Extracting THC using a petrol fuel????

You know how cocaine is made right? 


There are better ways to get stoned guys.


----------



## pcduck

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> All I can say is my boys are making a concentrate with no impurites at all, and from butane extraction. It has been testing at 80% and is perfectly clear. It goes for BIG money.  Personally, I don't make it at all, so I am not sure the exact steps they do, but I know they use a double boiler also.
> There is a HUGE new trend called "Dabs", and it is catching on big time. I too have bought a "dab" rig for my bong, and it is truly one hitter quiter.
> 
> I was taken off guard recently at a party that Steep Hill labs thru. All the big players were there, including the De 'angelo's and many NORML folks. No one was smoking herb. I was saddened. They ALL were taking "dabs". Concentrate only.
> 
> Anyone familar with what I am talking about?




Yep Got an adapter for the bong. One is a real small triangle bowl like thing that you touch a glass rod to and the other is a dome like thing with a metal titanium plate that swivels up and under the dome once heated. Then place the dab(concentrate) on the titanium plate. To hit it. While hitting it this way I have never tasted a petroleum byproduct. I have tasted it when hitting a bowl that has gotten to hot and has burned the product.


----------



## OGKushman

And Hal, 80% and no impurities??? :giggle:

What's the other 20%? 

*you can't answer that without a mass spec on the sample.


----------



## OGKushman

In addition, Vector (the brand used most by stoners)appears to be only 60% (SIXTY) butane. That's 40 percent not butane 

hXXp://www.vectorkgm.com/catalog/butane/Vector_Gas_MSDS.pdf

Some of that stuff is lubrication for torch lighters!

Just for shiggs and gittles I looked up power 7x and Ronson


hXXp://www.gpsidental.com/uploads/files/Ronson Butane Refill MSDS - May 2000.pdf


Edit: just found this but not power specifically. Still can't find power's. Hmmm

hXXp://www.originenergy.com.au/files/MSDSCommercialButane.pdf

Apparently they don't guarantee any percentage, and clearly don't monitor "batches".

Mercaptans are also present. Which can affect your central nervous system. It can be present in such small amounts that would require a spectrograph to determine how much. In larger amounts it smells bad but in small (mg/kg) amounts you may not detect it.


Inhaling some of the butane on its own will eventually lead to your central nervous system breakdown. 



> Some inhalants change cardiac physiology and increase the risk for cardiac failure. For example,butane (from cigarette lighters), freon (from aerosol propellants) and toluene (from glues) hypersensitize cardiac cells to norepinephrine, the neurotransmitter that stimulates cardiac contractions. Inhalants interfere with the transport of oxygen by interfering with the binding or release of oxygen by red blood cells. The resulting hypoxia also causes cardiac cell hypersensitivity to norepinephrine. Norepinephrine sensitivity and hypoxia can cause cardiac muscles to defibrillate or begin contracting randomly. A syndrome called Sudden Sniffing Death (SSD) occurs without warning, and discontinuation of breathing the inhalant does not reverse the sequence of events.


hXXp://www.wickedroots.com/Vaporizers/Neurotoxic-Effects-Butane-Gas.html



Again, I need to ask why people still use it? Too bad I already know the answer. Because getting high now is more important then thinking about the future. Quote me on this: within a few years to decades there will be a huge increase of neurologically impaired people. Anyone wonder why those NOS balloon guys you knew in high school are now legally retarded? Your mind...You don't get that back.

I care guys, dont want to argue...so just trust your instincts.


----------



## 7greeneyes

all i can say is love my QWISO ...:hubba:


----------



## OGKushman

eace:


----------



## NorCalHal

Haha...OG. I hear ya bro. I know what you are talking about, the wax,yellow looking stuff. To me, that is full of junk. The product that my boys are making is straight glass, we call it Jolly Rancher. Clear amber.
When Steep Hill tested it, I am not sure what all they tested for, but I know that they tested for butane traces, and found none.
Now, I ain't trippin, just relayin' what I know about it. I have hit it quite a few times, and absolutly no bad taste, just tasty hashness. I will have to get some pics of this stuff. It is not wax at all. Not oil either.
I appreciate your concern bro, but that is the trend going on, and it is only getting bigger.
Here is the menu from the dispensary I vend it too. Notice the HUGE list of concentrates they carry. It surely isn't going away anytime soon.

hXXp://legalmarijuanadispensary.com/dispensaries/california/south-san-josecampbell-dispensaries/4539


Nice PC Duck! I too just got a rig a couple of weeks ago. I got the titanium Nail and Dab rod is titanium also. I have been layin' people out.

I do know the that 8.9% of the remaining 20% was CBD's.


----------



## The Effen Gee

Some key points to bho extracts (erls, dabs) and proper smoking apparati:

You cannot vape off all terpinoids in temps below 1600 degrees. 

Heating metal i.e. titanium to temps as high as this can cause the metal itself to emit vapors. No bueno. Use quartz nails, or a noodle if your all crazy like that. 

Use either map gas (yellow tank) or a really good butane torch (vector makes a sweet one) to heat your smoking apparati.

Get a reclaimer. All the recollected oil has been decarboxylated (site spelling) and can be ingested as-is. 

You can smell butane in your wax if its not done. 

If you are not using a vacum pump to extract butane, you are doing it wrong. Period. 

If you have cloudy oils, theres butane in it.
Same for bubbles. 

Texture is strain specific. 

Do NOT use galvinized. Copper is ok. Pre made glass tubes often are incorreclty sized. 

Use cotton tshirts for filter mediums. Cut them tight to fit, or you'll get "Wick-off".

More refined butane is better. 

Your heat threshold is very tiny. As in, its really easy to overdo it, or under cook it. 

No blasting tubes in your apartment, hotel, or any areas where bystanders may be injured, should the very likely happen. No more than two cans indoors, per six hours. No exceptions. 

Oh, and I just thought I should add, that dabbing is HUGE. Bigger than most of you could possibly imagine. An entire new industry has exploded, because people are realizing you can take one hit and get the job done. Not three joints, hash hands, and bad breath later.

You are also UNPROTECTED by the law. Even though this is techincally not a coversion, its still illegal and yes, they do throw people in prison for making it all the time. Medical card or not. 

Oh, and wear potholders, cause that extractor gets cold as ****. No more than four cans per tube. Any more than that, and your extractor is too big. 



Class dismissed.


----------



## Graywolf

OGKushman said:
			
		

> In addition, Vector (the brand used most by stoners)appears to be only 60% (SIXTY) butane. That's 40 percent not butane
> 
> hXXp://www.vectorkgm.com/catalog/butane/Vector_Gas_MSDS.pdf
> 
> Some of that stuff is lubrication for torch lighters!
> 
> Just for shiggs and gittles I looked up power 7x and Ronson
> 
> 
> hXXp://www.gpsidental.com/uploads/files/Ronson%20Butane%20Refill%20MSDS%20-%20May%202000.pdf
> 
> 
> Edit: just found this but not power specifically. Still can't find power's. Hmmm
> 
> hXXp://www.originenergy.com.au/files/MSDSCommercialButane.pdf
> 
> Apparently they don't guarantee any percentage, and clearly don't monitor "batches".
> 
> Mercaptans are also present. Which can affect your central nervous system. It can be present in such small amounts that would require a spectrograph to determine how much. In larger amounts it smells bad but in small (mg/kg) amounts you may not detect it.
> 
> 
> Inhaling some of the butane on its own will eventually lead to your central nervous system breakdown.
> 
> 
> hXXp://www.wickedroots.com/Vaporizers/Neurotoxic-Effects-Butane-Gas.html
> 
> 
> 
> Again, I need to ask why people still use it? Too bad I already know the answer. Because getting high now is more important then thinking about the future. Quote me on this: within a few years to decades there will be a huge increase of neurologically impaired people. Anyone wonder why those NOS balloon guys you knew in high school are now legally retarded? Your mind...You don't get that back.
> 
> I care guys, dont want to argue...so just trust your instincts.


 
Or consider keeping it in perspective?  There is light years difference between residual butane in parts per millionth, and sniffing butane.


----------



## Graywolf

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> Some key points to bho extracts (erls, dabs) and proper smoking apparati:
> 
> You cannot vape off all terpinoids in temps below 1600 degrees.
> 
> Heating metal i.e. titanium to temps as high as this can cause the metal itself to emit vapors. No bueno. Use quartz nails, or a noodle if your all crazy like that.
> 
> Use either map gas (yellow tank) or a really good butane torch (vector makes a sweet one) to heat your smoking apparati.
> 
> Get a reclaimer. All the recollected oil has been decarboxylated (site spelling) and can be ingested as-is.
> 
> You can smell butane in your wax if its not done.
> 
> If you are not using a vacum pump to extract butane, you are doing it wrong. Period.
> 
> If you have cloudy oils, theres butane in it.
> Same for bubbles.
> 
> Texture is strain specific.
> 
> Do NOT use galvinized. Copper is ok. Pre made glass tubes often are incorreclty sized.
> 
> Use cotton tshirts for filter mediums. Cut them tight to fit, or you'll get "Wick-off".
> 
> More refined butane is better.
> 
> Your heat threshold is very tiny. As in, its really easy to overdo it, or under cook it.
> 
> No blasting tubes in your apartment, hotel, or any areas where bystanders may be injured, should the very likely happen. No more than two cans indoors, per six hours. No exceptions.
> 
> Oh, and I just thought I should add, that dabbing is HUGE. Bigger than most of you could possibly imagine. An entire new industry has exploded, because people are realizing you can take one hit and get the job done. Not three joints, hash hands, and bad breath later.
> 
> You are also UNPROTECTED by the law. Even though this is techincally not a coversion, its still illegal and yes, they do throw people in prison for making it all the time. Medical card or not.
> 
> Oh, and wear potholders, cause that extractor gets cold as ****. No more than four cans per tube. Any more than that, and your extractor is too big.
> 
> 
> 
> Class dismissed.


 

Which terpenoids require 1600F? As hydrocarbons, all that I am familiar with, are  converted to CO2 and water vapor around half that temperature.  Carbon itself burns at 400C/752F.  That is why self cleaning ovens operate in that range. 

Whether you need a vacuum or not, sort of depends on what form you are using your oil in.  It isn't needed if you are decarboxylating afterwards, for instance. 

I hope you are kidding about no more than two cans of butane indoors per six hours.  I recommend zero cans indoors at any time, with no exceptions. One can is more than enough to blow a roof off. 

In Oregon,we are protected by the OMMP laws, and extracting oil is legal.


----------



## The Effen Gee

One can of butane will not blow your roof off. Thought you may be a bit smarter than that. 

Its not weather you need a vacum or not, its you need a vacum pump or quit. I've shared enough secrets about butane hash making as it is.

In california, you are WIDE OPEN to prosecution. Regardless of what people may tell you, I have more than a few homies who either are broke fighting the legal battle, or are in jail..excuse me..prison.


----------



## Graywolf

The Effen Gee said:
			
		

> One can of butane will not blow your roof off. Thought you may be a bit smarter than that.
> 
> Its not weather you need a vacum or not, its you need a vacum pump or quit. I've shared enough secrets about butane hash making as it is.
> 
> In california, you are WIDE OPEN to prosecution. Regardless of what people may tell you, I have more than a few homies who either are broke fighting the legal battle, or are in jail..excuse me..prison.


 
And I thought you were smarter than to use butane indoors, but it looks like both our dreams were dashed.

Exactly how much explosive force do you imagine 300 ml of liquid butane will create at 233:1 liquid to gas ratio?  Something to be brushed aside and casually ignored?

Got several vacuum pumps, but certainly don't need them to adequately purge butane by other processes.  For instance, after winterizing a BHO, how much butane is left?  

Oil is also legal in Oregon, regardless of the state of affairs in CA, therefore your absolute statement is untrue, exactly as I stated.  

I simply took exception to your untrue absolute statements about vacuum and legality, but quite frankly I consider you telling newbies that it OK to use up to two cans of butane indoors a criminal act.

Since ya'll newbies on this forum don't know either of us from Adams off ox, may I suggest that you ignore us both on the subject and do your own research by calling your local Fire Marshall to get his professional input and your local District Attorney for his views on reckless endangering.


----------



## Hick

..... I dunno id I'd call it "criminal", but I agree with the idea that extraction w/ butane 'indoors' is dangerous. Ventilation would be "paramount" IMO..

It doesn't need to "blow the roof off"... only a digit err two, or your face!1  

  vacuums and legalities, I'll leave to the house cleaner and lawyers..


----------



## NorCalHal

What Effen is talking about is The legality of BHO in Cali. It is Illegal. Period.
Only Water extraction is legal under MMJ laws. Butane Extraction carries the same charge as manufacturing Meth. Good Times.

You are absolutly wrong Effen on the vaccuum pump. There is better ways my friend. Come see me. We are killin' it in the Bay.


----------



## Graywolf

There have already been pictures posted of houses with sections of the roof blown off, from indoor extractors using butane, and would it even be OK if it just blew out a few windows and ear drums, or subjected the surroundings to a 3500F plus degree fireball.

My use of the term crimimal act, hinges on whether we define telling someone gullible something is OK, that gets them killed or maimed, is just irresponsible or a crime against the innocent.   

I'm willing to call it by any name as long as everyone reading this thread either understands how dangerous it is or researches it further untill they do.  

Here is an article on Butane safety that ya'll might check out, along with questioning your local Fire Marshall.

hXXp://skunkpharmresearch.com/butane-safety/


----------



## The Effen Gee

Hal, I gotta see this. Hit me up.


----------



## Killuminati420

@OGkushman lol according to all testing facilities properly made bho is absolutely clean. docters have sat down and discussed this. conclusions have been reached. 
and as far as a dab tasting like a candle...lol? are you used to smoking out of a joint or some unknown grade metal pipe? 
i dab off of quarts or highly educated titanium and it tastes like a super tasty candy of whatever strain i made it from.

maybe your doing it wrong?  lab results show properly done bho is absolutely clean.  lol i dont know what else to tell you.


----------



## OGKushman

id like to see these lab results... And how do you dab quarts? :rofl: what? what exactly is "highly educated titanium"?

I have a titanium nail...oh only if the crash didnt happen. Many of you forget i was the first to post the hash oil globe here. I got it from Aqua Lab here locally who had the first designs.  I still have the pics around...

Im not here to laugh or poke fun. I know its got crap in it that i dont want in me. If its made with small butane lighter refill cans its got unwanted stuff in it.  ill give Jeff at Cannachemistry a call and arrange some mass spec testing. You know me im always good for some results on paper.


----------



## OGKushman

Ok so i did some google searching and lo and behold look what pops up. 

hXXp://aqualabtechnologies.com/concentrate-utensils/highly-educated-titanium.html

Aqua Lab hahaa. This place is down the street from me.

So they changed the name lol you realize you have the same setup i have had since mid 2010?  In any case, when the chemist calls back ill set it up. Going to have him test the stuff i can scrape off a mirror that evaporates from one can. 

What worries me is inhaling the butane as it comes out of the can. Not when it burns in the BHO. If it were 100% pure and not vector style small can butane we wouldnt be having this discussion. 

Edit: Small update. I havent heard back from jeff at Cannachemistry so I just got off the phone with a rep from Intertek. They are going to determine if their west coast or their Houston lab can accomodate a full spectral analysis on 3 samples of evaporated butane residuals. They will contact me within 24 hours with a quote and the size of sample needed. I know and trust Intertek and believe their Lake Forest Ca. lab should be able to test this.


----------



## pcduck

> What worries me is inhaling the butane as it comes out of the can. Not when it burns in the BHO. If it were 100% pure and not vector style small can butane we wouldnt be having this discussion.



I thought we were discussing the residual butane left in the bho?

If we are discussing inhaling straight butane, then I would have to agree with OGK and say inhaling butane is bad for you.


----------



## Killuminati420

OGKushman said:
			
		

> id like to see these lab results... And how do you dab quarts? :rofl: what? what exactly is "highly educated titanium"?
> 
> I have a titanium nail...oh only if the crash didnt happen. Many of you forget i was the first to post the hash oil globe here. I got it from Aqua Lab here locally who had the first designs.  I still have the pics around...


lol hash oil globe thats old school. people called it that when the domes first came out in the early 2000s. the skillet (curves) have been around since at least the 60s lol. and if you want to hear some doctors talk about bho theres a lot of vids of the recent denver cup where they do just that.
lol dab OFF of quarts, just like ti lol. highly educated is the best titanium company, using medical titanium(grade 2) that holds heat the longest, burns even, has no taste and will never break. i ordered mine from just down the st from you at aqualabs  
im stuck ordering ti till darby gets his connect on lock.


----------



## OGKushman

Ok boys and girls i had a conversation with the chemist this morning.

Jeff Brown (who is happy to answer your questions, xxx.cannachemistry.com) has Mass Spec tested many "lighter refill" extracted samples. The residual on the mirror in the original post is a type of petroleum oil added by the company to expand the flame when it comes out of a lighter and to lubricate the lighter. His words were "if you are using lighter refill butane then you are concentrating this oil and smoking it, if you want to do it properly using butane you must purchase it somewhere like airgas."  I asked him for some Mass Spec printouts on BHO that he has done before so i could get around paying 800$ for a run of the sample. We should be meeting up in LA tomorrow. 

Now intertek has still not returned my call but i suspect rhem to be substantially cheaper (i told them im a student still and this is for a project).

Keep loling killuminatti...some ACTUAL labratory results, and not just talk, are about to blow your mind.


----------



## OGKushman

And i think that killumniati was talking about quartZ (as in silica dioxide) not quartS (as in a liquid amount). Dabbing quartS did not seem possible to me. 

And to pc my inhaling butane comment was directed at greywolf's post 30. When i mentioned inhaling it i didnt mean inhaling what was left in the oil. You got to sit a foot or 2 away from your extracted butane while you extract. If you can smell it your inhalin it.


----------



## LEFTHAND

OGKushman said:
			
		

> You got to sit a foot or 2 away from your extracted butane while you extract. If you can smell it your inhalin it.


 
*one can alway wear a carbon filtered half mask...*
*when i make mine.. which isnt too often and this thread is making me think twice lol... but i always brought my full faced painting mask home..*
*(work in a painting shop) lol...*

*thats when i have done indoors..in garage with the door open 3ft n the back door open  great air flow..*

*LH*


----------



## Graywolf

OGKushman said:
			
		

> Jeff Brown (who is happy to answer your questions, www.cannachemistry.com) has Mass Spec tested many "lighter refill" extracted samples. The residual on the mirror in the original post is a type of petroleum oil added by the company to expand the flame when it comes out of a lighter and to lubricate the lighter. .


 
Thanks for the link bro!  I sent Jeff an e-mail to see if he will share the specifics of what he found with us too, including the standards that he is using, so that we can duplicate his experiments with our own gas chromatograph.

I am particularly interested in exactly what compound he found, as no petroleum residues show up under UV, as is typical of petroleum products.


----------



## OGKushman

Have not been able to get to LA and jeff has not been able to get to me yet. Im throwing in the towel on the single life in 4 weeks and my life has been crazy! 

Whew. Just had a toke. I havent gone this long without smoking in years! 

Ill be back ASAP.


----------



## Graywolf

OGKushman said:
			
		

> Have not been able to get to LA and jeff has not been able to get to me yet. Im throwing in the towel on the single life in 4 weeks and my life has been crazy!
> 
> Whew. Just had a toke. I havent gone this long without smoking in years!
> 
> Ill be back ASAP.


 
No reply to my e-mail yet either!  

Congratulations on your upcoming wedding!


----------



## bho_expertz

Ya OG. Congrats man.


----------



## Graywolf

Dan K. Liberty said:
			
		

> hey graywolf if you wanna set up a canna lab let me know - have experience, would relocate to cali in a heartbeat (already have sibs out there), standardizing methodology and getting state certification are the biggest hurdles but it would be a labor of love


 
Thanks for the good thoughts bro!  Sadly we are in Oregon, and will just be using the GC to sort out our own samples, though we will be using the same standards as the local labs for hire.

Good luck getting to CA!  There seem to be a number of labs springing up in CA and some of them have to be looking for experienced talent!


----------



## NorCalHal

Dan K. Liberty said:
			
		

> hey graywolf if you wanna set up a canna lab let me know - have experience, would relocate to cali in a heartbeat (already have sibs out there), standardizing methodology and getting state certification are the biggest hurdles but it would be a labor of love


 
No worries about a State Certification for a canna lab, because there is none. Anyone can do it.


----------



## NorCalHal

OGKushman said:
			
		

> Keep loling killuminatti...some ACTUAL labratory results, and not just talk, are about to blow your mind.


 
waiting for my mind to be blown.


----------



## Graywolf

So far I've not gotten any answer back from Jeff, so he may also be waiting for a response too.


----------



## NorCalHal

Looks like Jeff lags............


----------



## sMACkaddict

comon norcal, og said he was gonna blow killuminati, not you


----------



## sMACkaddict

ha...ha... JUST KIDDING!:bolt:


----------



## Killuminati420

OGKushman said:
			
		

> Have not been able to get to LA and jeff has not been able to get to me yet. Im throwing in the towel on the single life in 4 weeks and my life has been crazy!
> 
> Whew. Just had a toke. I havent gone this long without smoking in years!
> 
> Ill be back ASAP.


 
ever get any results from jeff?
you can buy pure n-butane (pharmaceutical/completely pure) that isnt diluted(cut) to increase quanity to flip it.
you can rarely find newport too, the only n-butane sold retail.


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

think OGK is on an extended honeymoon . . . haven't seen him on the boards since June


----------



## Killuminati420

Dan K. Liberty said:
			
		

> think OGK is on an extended honeymoon . . . haven't seen him on the boards since June


ahhhh, nice! grats OG! :clap:  :48:


----------



## dirt and more

Killuminati420 said:
			
		

> ever get any results from jeff?
> you can buy pure n-butane (pharmaceutical/completely pure) that isnt diluted(cut) to increase quanity to flip it.
> you can rarely find newport too, the only n-butane sold retail.


 

Better check the MSDS sheet on this butane. Doesn't give % of ingredients as other products.  Easy to find on ebay
Label says near zero impurities.


dirt


----------



## dirt and more

Killuminati420 said:
			
		

> ever get any results from jeff?
> you can buy pure n-butane (pharmaceutical/completely pure) that isnt diluted(cut) to increase quanity to flip it.
> you can rarely find newport too, the only n-butane sold retail.


 

Better check the MSDS sheet on this butane. Doesn't give % of ingredients as other products.  Easy to find on ebay
Label says near zero impurities.


dirt


----------



## dirt and more

i'm concerned as much as anyone about unwanted chemicals in the body. How many drink diet sodas on here? Doing away with aspartame would do everyone as much good including me, but do we worry?

dirt


----------



## Graywolf

dirt and more said:
			
		

> Better check the MSDS sheet on this butane. Doesn't give % of ingredients as other products.  Easy to find on ebay
> Label says near zero impurities.
> 
> 
> dirt


 
What is missing in the discussion, is perspective.  The bigger question is what are the impurities?

Since the answer is oleaginious waxes, propane, cyclopropane, and isobutane, which have low toxicitity, are we really debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?


----------



## sMACkaddict

6!!


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

Graywolf said:
			
		

> What is missing in the discussion, is perspective. The bigger question is what are the impurities?
> 
> Since the answer is oleaginious waxes, propane, cyclopropane, and isobutane, which have low toxicitity, are we really debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin?


 
Remember George Carlin? 

"Newsflash . . . scientists have discovered that _saliva_ causes _cancer_!! . . . . but only when taken in _small_ doses, over a _looong_ period of time . . . "

:rofl:


----------



## dirt and more

How about using ether instead of butane?  pros and cons? Availability? Purity? End product? Been considered on as an option on this forum in the past?
dirt


----------



## Graywolf

dirt and more said:
			
		

> How about using ether instead of butane?  pros and cons? Availability? Purity? End product? Been considered on as an option on this forum in the past?
> dirt


 
Sorry, never tried diethyl ether, but it would clearly work.  It is polar, and based on the ethane molecule, as is ethanol.  It just has the oxygen molecule in the middle, as opposed to on one end like ethanol.

Availability here, is about the same as other reagent grade solvents, as is the purity.  I've read that it can produce a nice end product, but have no personal experience.


----------



## Graywolf

May I clarify?  The molecule would actually be butane, without the oxygen molecule in the middle, but the oxygen splits the four carbon butane atom into two, two carbon ethyl atoms, hence the di ethyl name.


----------



## Graywolf

dirt and more said:
			
		

> i'm concerned as much as anyone about unwanted chemicals in the body. How many drink diet sodas on here? Doing away with aspartame would do everyone as much good including me, but do we worry?
> 
> dirt


 
I do, so I don't drink aspartame.


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

dirt and more said:
			
		

> How about using ether instead of butane? pros and cons? Availability? Purity? End product? Been considered on as an option on this forum in the past?
> dirt


 
I have mentioned it a few times on this forum, and I actually have done a number of cannabis oil extractions with diethyl ether . . . in the distant past . . . so I will tell you everything I can

What I had was laboratory reagent-grade 99.99% pure ether in a 4 liter aluminum can . . . the average joe can't just go pick this stuff up somewhere, it was purchased from a scientific chemical supply company, and it would have required proof of lab certification in order to . . . order . . . . . . it also became known in the 80's that people were using ether to freebase cocaine, and that caused a clamp-down on availability, so that is the biggest drawback . . . you almost need to know somebody who is an authorized purchasing agent at a certified laboratory or industry to get your hands on a can of it.

The pro's are many . . . butane is _much_ more volatile - it explodes easier with its lower ignition point, and it has a boiling point below room temperature when at normal atmospheric pressure. The ether didn't need to boil off like butane does - it just gently evaporated - but it was plenty quick enough for me (a liter would evaporate in less than an hour) . . . you also seem to get very happy all the sudden while you're working with it - but not quite happy enough to light up a cigarette !!  

I remember one extraction I did up in the attic of my home in the middle of the winter . . . this was in the early 90's . . . freezing cold, dry air up there . . . so I set the extract next to an open window with a fan blowing the fumes out, and this stuff evaporated so cold and so fast that it formed little ice crystal castles (kinda like the ones you grow on charcoal in 7th grade science class) sticking out horizontally from the sides of the pyrex dish I had it poured into !!

When it was dry I brought it downstairs . . . and as it warmed, the ice crystals melted and the last bit of ether evaporated . . . and the beautiful amber oil drizzled down the sides and into the bottom of the dish . . . just fantastic looking stuff . . . pure and very delicious . . . smoked in a pyrex pipe by heating the glass, it had a sweet bubblegum taste and a rip-roaring high . . . the batches where a bit of fine plant sediment got thru resulted in a soft, pliable, oily brown ball of thc that you could pick up and knead with your fingers . . . we called it "silly putty" !!

Hexane is even less volatile than ether, and perhaps not so difficult to obtain . . . but if I could get my hands on some ether again, it would be my number one choice - without a doubt !! :joint:


----------



## 420ftw

I have used colibri butane for all my oil. seems to be very pure and clean.

maybe I know no different but it always comes out a beautiful amber and not taste of butane at all.


I haev done it all with a glass cake pans.

I have 2 cake pans, one is smaller than the other so that they can fit inside each other.

I run my butane through my tube into the smaller cake pan, once all cans have been run through I put the smaller cake pan into the larget cake pan and I pour hot tap water in the larger cake pan, that creates enough heat to boil off all liquids ( some times I need to do this twice as the water cools down)

once done I scrape it out with a blade 

FYI, I do my in the garage with the door crracked for ventilation.


----------



## Killuminati420

dirt and more said:
			
		

> How about using ether instead of butane? pros and cons? Availability? Purity? End product? Been considered on as an option on this forum in the past?
> 
> dirt



ether extracts aren't done a lot because it takes longer to purge off all the contams, its a highly volatile, flammable liquid(solvent thats usualy used for liquid, liquid extractions) and harmful to the skin making it more hazardous to handle.
also because ether isnt a complete non polar solvent, although it is low polarity, its not as low as butane.


 vector and power5x is what i usualy run with but ive used many.
with bho its all about the purge, which most people dont do enough and leave it an oily sticky unhealthy mess that will slowly kill you if steadily consumed...(most people dont use vacuum pumps and arent that educated about it. takes 8hours to a few days to get all the butane completely out)
 i do a low heat purge as im running and continue with the heat as i vac.
i can make it come out whatever consistency i want. doughlike, looking something like cookie dough...  white crumbly honeycomb, completely clean see thru jelly, hardened bright yellow foam, all types of wax, amber glass "shatter". 
i do oil runs every few days making anywhere from an eighth to an ounce+ of errl each run.


----------



## The Effen Gee

^^^

Pretty much this. 

710 for days.

#dablife #dunklife


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

:bump: where the hell is OGKushman . . . . aint seen his azz since he got married last June THIS THREAD MUST NOT DIE !!

:48:


----------



## Hushpuppy

Is hexane good for BHO? I have seen it in the paint store in a liquid, so I would think it would be easier to work with but harder to purge.


----------



## Bleek187

Good read. Here are my thoughts. BHO nomatter how you purge it will still contain impurities. If you don't mind smoking butane and other impurities in your thc then go for it. If you want something more pure you could do a ISO extract and smoke dabs of ISO oil. I think ISO extract has less impurities than BHO due to the fact that you are extracting with 100% pure alcohol. I think the alcohol evaporates out of the extract leaving less impurities in the oil. Ever vacuum purge ISO extract? I never understood why people would do BHO extract and then purge with ISO. Why not just extract with ISO in the first place. 

IMO the most pure extraction process would be through kief. Tumble it, shake it, whatever. You use no chemicals to extract the THC, you simply freeze them and catch them when they break off. The kief remains 100% pure. If you go water extraction with bubble bags its basicly the same thing just as a wet extraction. I prefer dry kief because i can then make it into whatever texture i want. You can leave it as a powder and sprinkle it into your bud when you role it or into a bowl. You can make a tincture with it and put a drop on whatever or just a drop under your tounge. You can make infuse it with butter, honey, oil. You can also press it and heat it to make it more gewy for dab hits. But it stays pure. 

Just my thoughts on it all. =)


----------



## effdecaf

Theres places in Alaska where people are driven to huff hairspray.
Bums drink listerine.
Some people in arab countries huff Butane.
How much butane do you inhale when you use a butane lighter to light your bowl?
How many of the impurities get deposited into your smoking piece?
What temp does marijuana vaporize compared to the impurities?
How fast does butane trapped in your extract escape when burned, faster than you inhale lighter fluid from lighting the extract in the first place?
What happens when you drive behind a giant diesel big rig?
Why do asians wear masks when holding a warm moist thing infront of your face breeds bacteria unless its someones crotch?
Unless of course, they're blue waffling.

Think this butane hype is like global warming, caused by the sun, misrepresented by 'skkkientists' and really has no cause for alarm.


----------



## NorCalHal

effdecaf said:
			
		

> Think this butane hype is like global warming, caused by the sun, misrepresented by 'skkkientists' and really has no cause for alarm.


 
If you think Global warming is not real, you must never have watched Chasing Ice.


----------



## effdecaf

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> If you think Global warming is not real, you must never have watched Chasing Ice.



Isnt that a hollywood movie? Does it indirectly support wealth redistribution in the form of carbon credits?

The movie lists the credentials of a lot of researchers, I don't have the patience to research their political and financial obligations or contributors.

Deep sea ice researchers might have an answer towards trends but I petition you this:

What, on this Earth, has never been produced from it, and contributes towards a significant change towards the total state of what the Earth intends for itself. Do we even know what Gaia wants? 

Diamonds? Gold deposits? Meteor impact sites?

I guess the ice age was a pretty significant event.

How badly has the nuclear meltdown in Fukushima affected ocean life? Other than tiny increases in isotopes in dilutions that are not significant towards genetic manipulation, the ocean kinda ate up all that runoff and hasn't spit out four headed sharks...

I still enjoy the effects of BHO as well as many other types of hash, and have not had any ill effects from 10+ yrs of smoking BHO off and on, while attaining two degrees.

I petition that BHO has less ill effects than living in a transportation based urban area. I'm fairly certain things like the Cali rim fire and other natural occurrences spew tons of "emissions" that the EPA, FDA, CIA, and hollywood would deem EVIL.

SF would rather go without water than to create more dams.

EDIT: Oh yeah, and this-> A chilly Arctic summer has left nearly a million more square miles of ocean covered with ice than at the same time last year &#8211; an increase of 60 per cent.


----------



## NorCalHal

Now, I'm with you on folks, including researchers, having hidden agenda's.
That was something I have not looked into at all in regards to the making of that flick.

Take a look at the Ice core data from the last 400,00 years, and you will see clearly that we are on a cusp, ready for a big fall in regards to CO2 levels and global temps. What this means is anyone's guess, as it has been over 100,000 years since the last fall in temps and CO2 levels.

As far as BHO, toke it up my friend. I personally dislike it and prefer fat joints of my homegrown. Is it bad for you? Who is to say, as the process is very different from hash maker to hash maker.
I don't always smoke hash, but when I do, I prefer Cold Water.


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

At the end of the day, I do agree with you, Hal.  Doing the ether oil was fun, and I've looked into trying butane or hexane too.

But no matter what extraction method, I think for me nothing is gonna beat the aesthetics and purity of just getting out the scissors, chopping up some nice fresh bud, stuffing the zig zag man and sparkin up.

Now if *OGKushman* would get back in here, I might change my mind . . . 

:joint:


----------



## effdecaf

Most global warming alarmists blame humanity. Ice core data tied to electromagnetic fluctuations of the solar EM field make more sense to me. I do agree we are on some sort of polar flip (possibly) cusp, but what that means to mankind probably isn't something we can control or speed up to any reasonable degree.



			
				NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Now, I'm with you on folks, including researchers, having hidden agenda's.
> That was something I have not looked into at all in regards to the making of that flick.
> 
> Take a look at the Ice core data from the last 400,00 years, and you will see clearly that we are on a cusp, ready for a big fall in regards to CO2 levels and global temps. What this means is anyone's guess, as it has been over 100,000 years since the last fall in temps and CO2 levels.




BHO can be purified by simply heating it up slowly and releasing the butane, as far as the 'trace' impurities, I put it to you that even organic foods in some markets have worse things in their composition under the guise of "things that fall outside of the scope of organic regulations." The whole world isnt out to lie cheat and steal, but the organic push has raised a lot of mis information and outright preposterous claims by distributer and manufacturers of human goods.


			
				NorCalHal said:
			
		

> As far as BHO, toke it up my friend. I personally dislike it and prefer fat joints of my homegrown. Is it bad for you? Who is to say, as the process is very different from hash maker to hash maker.
> I don't always smoke hash, but when I do, I prefer Cold Water.



The process is relatively the same, you put your product in a tube, run butane through a nozzle in the top and collect it out the bottom. Butane sinks compared to atmospheric gasses, and needs a relatively high concentration to hit its combustion/flame needs in terms of energy. I am a fan of cold water extraction but tbh screens with micron differentiation can be changed based on their stretch, age, and handling procedures. 72microns will rarely stay a 72 micron screen in most peoples operations.

Butane can be further extracted like people say on here with ISO or CO2 or running it under vacuum.

Activated charcoal can remove many impurities of many types of organic reactions.

Things with the similar polar/solubility complex as pure D9THC can be employed in purity to extract ONLY a small/select range of cannabanoids.

Peoples predilections to health, safety, and harm reduction keep a lot of people in ignorance. I'm not saying you're all WRONG about detrimental health effects of smoking BHO... When I've smoked a LOT of UNKEMPT or improperly purified BHO I've noticed it take a toll on my lungs and throat, but then again working 30 hour physical labor job on top of full time school has left my body and mind in worse agony with a longer repair to get back to baseline or health.

Every cell (nearly) is replaced entirely in 7 years. Anything that cannot typically becomes cancerous.

If you have damaged cells or systems that you have not mutated the base genetics, then your body will rebuild itself to health in an (insignificant) amount of time compared to the typical human lifespan.

Every method of smoking and appreciation of marijuana is something I am open to. From 80%+ "shatter," to very clean and amazingly aromatic bubble hash, to the teenage scavenge for lost buds in the trunk...


----------



## effdecaf

Dan K. Liberty said:
			
		

> I think for me nothing is gonna beat the aesthetics and purity of



Subjective vs critical analytical methods are not the same. Aesthetics is reasonably a personal preference, and purity is something that can be tested in a lab.

BHO, ice hash, hexane/solvent pulls, will ALWAYS be more potent than the bud it started with, no matter how pretty or disgusting it looks (stock or end product), unless someone has absolutely NO idea what they are doing and mess up the extraction process.


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

I am no stranger to analytical methods, sir.  In fact, I spent several years as a chemist, performing everything from simple wet chemical analyses to GCMS and ICP (Inductively-Coupled Plasma) refractometry.

Although I am clearly stating my personal preference from an aesthetic point of view, I am also applying reason and logic to my personal conclusion.  No concentration technique can result in an end product that is more "pure" than it was beforehand.  Also, one has to take into account the extra time, effort and cost in the concentration process.  If it's worth it, then fine.

And potency is great . . . but I don't like fading after two hits.  I just wanna sit here and puff on a freakin doob all day! :joint:


----------



## effdecaf

I guess its symantics when relating purity to potency etc. I respect your experience in analytical methods but I put it to you this: your personal prefference for wanting to hit the doob all day doesn't relate to the safety of any extracts. 

For most "purity" is akin to "potency" at least in the retail market for these extracts. Many 'impurities' are also chlorophyll and other organic moleculesi n the bud itself. So running it into a concentration that also strips these impurities leaves the final product PURER and also with a higher concentration resulting in more POTENCY. I should be more careful with my terms.

Someone with this extensive of chemistry knowledge should be able to at least see the merit in that. I spent some time doing GCMS and a multitude of analytical techniques on compounds. I am no expert or pro in the field, but my rants are mostly relating to the safety and healthy hazards people perport about BHO/HEXANE/supercritical/ETC extractions and how it relates to both misinformation and ignorance not really to time/effort/etc.

For me its all love of the sport and the product that keeps me growing and experimenting with everything. Appreciation, the eye of the beholder, is only limited by ignorance. Knowledge brings more awareness, which brings more appreciation - even if its not accepted (such as appreciating the sheer will of Hitler while denouncing the fact that it was employed in completely embarrasing ways in regards to a healthy human condition - btw **** the nazi's).


----------



## NorCalHal

effdecaf said:
			
		

> Most global warming alarmists blame humanity. Ice core data tied to electromagnetic fluctuations of the solar EM field make more sense to me. I do agree we are on some sort of polar flip (possibly) cusp, but what that means to mankind probably isn't something we can control or speed up to any reasonable degree.


 
Climate scientists are 95% confident -- that is to say, surer than ever -- that humans are responsible for at least "half of the observed increase in global average surface temperatures since the 1950s."

This is the major headline from the report, as it marks a stark spike in confidence over the last 12 years, as scientists were 90% confident in 2007 and 66% confident in 2001 of the same conclusion.

An increase in carbon dioxide concentrations that is "unprecedented" in the last 20,000 years, along with increases in other emissions, have driven up average temperatures by about 0.6 degrees Celsius (1 degree Fahrenheit) since 1950, the report states.

Worst-case predictions are that by 2100, temperatures could increase by as much as 3.7 degrees Celsius (6.6 Fahrenheit), the report says.


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

yeah, and all those propellants spitting out your butane are contributing to the ozone hole!:joint:


----------



## 7greeneyes

facetious mode: on


I personally wouldn't mind a permanent spike in global warming, it gets chilly during the Winters  here....

:joint4:


facetious mode: off


we're damned if we do and we're damned if we don't. Money controls politics which controls the laws which control the people.

What are are you going to do, make wealth illegal?!? As long as there's humanoid's clinging to this spinning dirt ball, they're going to exploit what they can:  be it people, laws, ethics, politics, or the World for that matter, nothing means nothing once a man gets a taste for true, mind-altering wealth.

What they use to call gold fever....


----------



## Dan K. Liberty

7g . . . I want to party with you, man

:fly:


----------



## effdecaf

7greeneyes said:
			
		

> a taste for true, mind-altering wealth.
> 
> What they use to call gold fever....




Ever try bitcoin mining? LOL

Seriously though, I like my 71-78 degree breeze w full sun, anything more or less is UNACCEPTABLE...

I think the concept of making wealth illegal & terrorizing our sense of world presence with pseudo-science, detract from the human condition.


Keep on rockin' in the free world man :lama:!!!


----------



## NorCalHal

effdecaf said:
			
		

> I think the concept of making wealth illegal & terrorizing our sense of world presence with pseudo-science, detract from the human condition.
> 
> 
> Keep on rockin' in the free world man :lama:!!!


 
Absolutely not. No such thing as "human nature", it is all taught and learned from birth, not a pre determined condition.


----------



## 7greeneyes

Dan K. Liberty said:
			
		

> 7g . . . I want to party with you, man
> 
> :fly:



:aok:

:ccc:


----------

