# Trimming water leaves 3 weeks into flower



## Bgrow91 (Feb 7, 2012)

Hi guys. Thanks for hour help last post. I am currently in my 3rd week of flower. And everything looks fantastic. Not a bad leave on any of them and the buds look great. But I trimmed all of them the other day pretty bare. Not to crazy only big water leaves. And I have been getting different responses from everybody. I would love to hear what you guys think about all of it. Thank you.


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## dman1234 (Feb 7, 2012)

are you saying you trimmed the large fan leaves???

if so you shouldnt have, buds dont need direct light, fan leaves do, they then feed your buds, they are like solar panels collecting energy to feed buds.


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## pcduck (Feb 7, 2012)

Bad idea, because of what dman has already posted. Plus I do not like doing any trimming once in flower. I do not like giving them any undue stress. I do trim all the lower branches(lollypop them) while still in veg but once in flower nothing.


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## Locked (Feb 7, 2012)

Not a good idea IMO as well....I do all my trimming of the lower portion of my ladies in veg not flower. And I don't remove fan leaves so much as lower branches. Keep an eye out for hermies if you did it three weeks into flower. Jmo


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## Hick (Feb 7, 2012)

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=60239


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## Jericho (Feb 7, 2012)

As everyone above has said it's not the best idea. 

Some people think that the more light you get on the leaf's around the bud the bigger the bud will get but this is a common misconception. Think of it this way, if you have your roof spotted with small solar panels on every other meter and then bigger ones over the top covering the whole roof, Would it be beneficial to take away the bigger ones covering the whole roof so the smaller ones get light?

No it wouldn't, the more leaf that is exposed to the light the better for the plant. Fan leaf's are big and out there because they pick up and process the most energy.


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 7, 2012)

may be stupid question but what are "water leaves"?


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## Growdude (Feb 7, 2012)

Bgrow91 said:
			
		

> And everything looks fantastic. Not a bad leave on any of them and the buds look great.


 
If they looked good why would you do that?


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## Jericho (Feb 7, 2012)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> may be stupid question but what are "water leaves"?


 
We are presuming they meant fan leaves.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 8, 2012)

Bgrow91 said:
			
		

> Hi guys. Thanks for hour help last post. I am currently in my 3rd week of flower. And everything looks fantastic. Not a bad leave on any of them and the buds look great. But I trimmed all of them the other day pretty bare. Not to crazy only big water leaves. And I have been getting different responses from everybody. I would love to hear what you guys think about all of it. Thank you.



This was an unwise thing to do and I cannot imagine where you would be getting different responses.  EVERY experienced grower KNOWS that the fan leaves are where the majority of photosynthesis takes place.  I cannot imagine any experienced grower anywhere who would think that it is okay to remove the majority of the fan leaves (I would not be taking these people's advise).  Sorry, but removing the fan leaves was a bad decision and will most likely have a large detrimental affect on your yield.  This is not just anecdotal info, science backs this up.


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## stevetberry (Feb 8, 2012)

I will also jump on the band wagon and say that removing fan leaves is a no no, not just for photosynthesis but this is where hormones are stored and could make your plants reveg or turn hermi.  Questions like this should be asked before the act not afterwards.  JMO.


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## funkybud (Feb 8, 2012)

I had a completely different experiance than all of you.
i was thinking the same as you for the last 30 years of growing. my harvest was always on the low side,4lbs with 2k hps.100% indica[klar]. the past 2 harvests,i removed the fans just to try something different. it worked,increasing the yield by almost a lb. i thought the one harvest was just a fluke,so i did it with the last harvest, the same thing.increased yield.
maybe its just the pheno that i am growing. no changes to enviroment,reusing the organic soil for the second year so far,indoors.


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## astrobud (Feb 8, 2012)




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## ozzydiodude (Feb 8, 2012)

:yeahthat:


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## dman1234 (Feb 8, 2012)

funkybud said:
			
		

> I had a completely different experiance than all of you.
> i was thinking the same as you for the last 30 years of growing. my harvest was always on the low side,4lbs with 2k hps.100% indica[klar]. the past 2 harvests,i removed the fans just to try something different. it worked,increasing the yield by almost a lb. i thought the one harvest was just a fluke,so i did it with the last harvest, the same thing.increased yield.
> maybe its just the pheno that i am growing. no changes to enviroment,reusing the organic soil for the second year so far,indoors.


 
No offence, but that doesnt make any sense, there are alot of these threads on the web, pics would help.


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## pcduck (Feb 8, 2012)

Marijuana Botany

by Robert Connell Clarke said:
			
		

> Removing large amounts of leaves may interfere with the metabolic balance of the plant. If this metabolic change occurs too late in the season it could interfere with floral development and delay maturation. If any floral inhibitors are removed, the intended effect of accelerating flowering will probably be counteracted by metabolic upset in the plant. Removal of shade leaves does facilitate more light reaching the center of the plant, but if there is not enough food energy produced in the leaves, the small internal floral clusters will probably not grow any larger. Leaf removal may also cause sex reversal resulting from a metabolic change.



This is science not guessing


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## Jericho (Feb 9, 2012)

Got to agree with the duck on this. Maybe there were other factors at play. Getting an extra lb from destroying your plant makes no sense at all.


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 9, 2012)

I have to call B s. Once fans are dead or plucked yield suffers and growth slows. A pound more I can not believe for one second if you removed all fans


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 9, 2012)

I also smell something fishy.  For starters, 4 lbs from 2 1000W is almost a gram a watt.  There is no way that I believe that someone stripped the fan leaves and got a pound more--over a gram a watt.

What we are saying is backed up by science--it is not just anecdotal.  Cutting fan leaves off a flowering plant is like cutting your legs off before the marathon believing that you will run faster because you weigh less.


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## funkybud (Feb 9, 2012)

it was my wife who said;
 "why don't you cut those big leaves off, we dont grow for leaves,we grow for buds." my reaction was the same as yours. i dont think so.that will make the buds smaller.she convinced me to try it once.it worked so i did it again.same thing. klar is a g13 backcross,from my experiance they are a heavy producer in the first place. wicked stone and reaks to all heaven.
 i grow with one plant per square foot in a 9 x5 area. it works for me. if i could pics up i would. 
it doesn't make sense at all.i do agree.


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## astrobud (Feb 10, 2012)

just think of the bud it could have had if you had not cut them leaves. nice new pic htg


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## WillyGreen28 (Feb 13, 2012)

Ok so I have been trimming shade leaves for a while and have found no negative effects. I prune throughout the entire flower cycle. I have a DWC setup with one 600w HPS in a 3 x 5 space. I'm averaging 5-8oz per plant dry. I've been getting these results for a few years with several strains. According to everyone here, I should be getting terrible results. That's just not the case.


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## Hick (Feb 14, 2012)

it isn't only according to the folkls here, it is _"SCIENCE"_...:confused2:
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=753165&postcount=16
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=752816&postcount=5


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## Jericho (Feb 14, 2012)

:yeahthat:


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 14, 2012)

Sorry, but I want to see some of those 8 oz plants that you trimmed 1/3 of the plant away and took fan leaves off in your 3 x 5' room with a 600W...


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## Bong Puller (Feb 17, 2012)

Would love to see one of your "Water leaves" from your 1 gm a watt grow. :hubba: What kind of nutes you using and how strong are ya running them in veg. and flower?  I would really like to hear where your G-13 is from is it the old cut from the government?  So many G-13 stories out there ya know..:ignore:
Karma brother,
B.P.


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## WillyGreen28 (Feb 17, 2012)

I appreciate everyones opinion on this matter. I have learned a ton on this site from reading all of your posts and am gratefull for the knowledge. I'm sure you all have much more experience than I do. I have just always trimmed shade leaves. Not all of them, but a lot of the upper leaves & throughout the stalk. I have done it thoughout the entire flower cycle. Now after reading all of you seasoned growers opinions, I'm going to stop & see if I get better results. I'm just saying that I have been getting these same results consistantly since switching to DWC. THG I don't have any pics from past crops but I'll take pics of my next crop. I don't think I'm talking about crazy numbers. I see other people on here with similar setups getting similar results.


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## Grower13 (Feb 17, 2012)

I have read a strain description recently on a seed site. Where the breeder suggest the upper leaves be removed well into flower. So the lower buds can get light and grow. If pressed I could find it...... it is on one of two sites. This is how growers start pulling leaves off their plants. I look at it this way..... I can't think of a single crop, flower, bush or tree which does anything better after the leaves are pulled of it. :bolt:


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## WillyGreen28 (Feb 17, 2012)

I'm not saying to remove all the shade leaves, but some yes. I don't know specifics, but I think it's somewhat common knowledge that pruning plants will help them to grow bigger yields. Am I just confused? It's possible.


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## Hick (Feb 18, 2012)

..I was..._"defoliating"_... in the early 80s  (ala 1970s mentor ho also taught me to drive a nail into the stalk,to boil the roots, and to hang them upside down to allow the thc to run to the tops..:rofl
  NONE of it improved anything IME. Then I read a book about plant physiology, and it all made sense...


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## Hick (Feb 18, 2012)

multifarious said:
			
		

> good for you hick
> 
> Your happy with your methods and I am very happy with my methods. I am also well read and experienced in not only growing Cannabis but also a wide variety of horticulture experience.


exactly..... but the fact is, 'you' are also employing _extensive and advanced_, in your words, "canopy management". Not simply plucking off leaves. 
  I don't like it when you appear ..'confrontational" (ie.."those who constantly bash the technique without having ever experimented with it")   
I AM  farmer...:farm: for over fifty years...My lively-hood depends on it. AND I've been growing pot for over 30 years. thg is a grower for 30+ years. To suggest lack of experience or experimenting I see as a feeble attempt to discredit quite honestly, and it irks me.


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## ozzydiodude (Feb 18, 2012)

For the Defoliation method to work right you have to start from seedling pulling the sun leaves off and you do not remove any lower branches. IME with it the plants took 2 or 3 extra weeks and I may have seen a 10% difference. I tried the method in 92.


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## greenmentat (Feb 20, 2012)

I think it's also going to depend a lot on the strain and the height of the plant.  If you veg a GDP for two-three months and top it to turn it into a bush then the whole thing is likely to be one large mass of thick fan leaves and there's no way light is going to penetrate into that  After kicking it into flower some of the branches will stretch up and extend out of the fan leaf mass but a lot of the branches will still be concealed by the fan leaves.  The accepted scientific opinion that I'm reading here, I think, says that the fan leaves will collect the energy and buds will grow well on the lower part of the branches that are concealed by fan leaves.  I say..sure.... but, not as well as if you had cut off some of the fan leaves so that some light could hit some of the lower nodes on the branches.  I like to expose at least three nodes down.  Just sharing my very humble experiences.


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## OGKushman (Feb 21, 2012)

This whole thread :rofl: has. to. be. a. joke.


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## NCGuerrillaking (Mar 12, 2012)

Word, i tried that last season on 3 of my viking clones and it was a bad idea. my plant stopped growing and my buds dried out on the plant. some ******* told me it would make my buds grow faster and that wasnt the case at all. Dont do that.


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## migia (Mar 12, 2012)

This is crazy!!!
Why not just ask the plant.......:doh:


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## Markers (Mar 13, 2012)

> thg is a grower for 30+ years.


Thats funny she dont hardly look 30 in her picture. as for the leaves I think they're fine where they are


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 13, 2012)

Every grow I've had so far I've trimmed leaves off. I understand why people choose to remove leaves. And to me it does make sense that it would in some ways be beneficial. 

I mentioned trimming some leaves in my first journal post and it sparked a bit of a controversy.

In my honest opinion, I believe that towards the 2/3+ point of your flowering stage, giving your plants a light shake, or even snapping a few leaves isn't necessarily for increasing the production so much as speeding up the latter portion of the flowering cycle. When it's "assaulted" for lack of a better word, It strengthens itself like any living organism. As well, like any other organism, if you attack/wound it, It's still wounded and it is going to take time to heal especially if you go a bit overboard.

My next grow I'm not gonna be cutting or trimming or breaking any leaves off. 

I also understand from the opposite side, that the plant uses it's leaves to feed, so removing them is essentially like adding an extra length to your oesophagus. It's going to take longer for food to reach where it needs to get.

So... In my conclusion... The benefits and drawbacks end up weighing even, so it just isn't necessary. You may end up with a few harder denser nugs on the plant, but the area in which you trimmed from isn't going to feed properly from that point on, and you will probably lose a bit of density and content in that area.


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## NorCalHal (Mar 13, 2012)

All Bad.

Cutting leaves 2/3rds into flower is plain crazy. Do what you will. You said it yourself, it "speeds up" flowering cycle. Why would anyone want that? If it "speeds up", it's not growing to full potential, which equatyes to lesser quality and lesser yield. Why grow at all then?

Most folks know that the last 2-3 weeks is the most critical in herb production, and that is where most folks blow it. I trip out on it.

Defoliate is also a bad word....pruning....that is the key.


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

*When it's "assaulted" for lack of a better word, It strengthens itself like any living organism. As well, like any other organism, if you attack/wound it, It's still wounded and it is going to take time to heal especially if you go a bit overboard.*

IMHO, you're making the plant heal herself when all it's energies should be going to bud production.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 14, 2012)

PartyBro420 said:
			
		

> ...When it's "assaulted" for lack of a better word, It strengthens itself like any living organism. As well, like any other organism, if you attack/wound it, It's still wounded and it is going to take time to heal especially if you go a bit overboard...



I'm not sure where you came up with that, but it is really not true with regards to most (maybe all)  living things.  Most living organism that you assault/attack/wound do NOT end up stronger.  They are ultimately weaker.  And as Roddy mentioned, they should be making bud, not trying to heal themselves at this point in their lives.


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## migia (Mar 14, 2012)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> I'm not sure where you came up with that, but it is really not true with regards to most (maybe all)  living things.  *Most living organism that you assault/attack/wound do NOT end up stronger.*  They are ultimately weaker.  And as Roddy mentioned, they should be making bud, not trying to heal themselves at this point in their lives.



[Just a question] With all due respect.....

Is this not the whole point of FIM, supercropping, and topping (the bolded, quoted sentence)? We wouldnt want them weaker, I think partybro is correct.......


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 14, 2012)

Well, anything that has an immune system, when able to fight off an invading bacteria, while being weaker right off the bat after spending energy to repair the damage done, it becomes accustomed to what it has to do in order to fight it off more efficiently if it should return, or change.

All living things change and adapt and strengthen themselves to the conditions they're presented with. Plants are no different.

Marijuana plants have already shown you all this whether you've watched it with open eyes or not... Stalks thicken because of wind, plants reach for sunlight. They adapt to the conditions they're presented with in order to ensure the survival of species.

I never said go crazy and start hacking away at the plant. I came to the conclusion that it's pointless to do it as well. Just from a different thought pattern than you may have.

If you're comparing breaking a leaf off a plant to a quadruped or biped breaking a limb, that's a gross over-comparison. Breaking a limb would be akin to taking the stalk of the plant and bending it 90 degrees to one side.

What I meant before by "speeding" up the flowering, I think you may have mis-interpreted also. The plant is going to flower until you remove it from flowering conditions, or brutalize it to the point it needs to re-veg. You're ultimately in control of how long you allow your plant to flower before harvesting it. So perhaps "speeding up" wasn't the correct term to use there.

I'm not advising people to trim leaves, nor am I saying it's a bad idea. Everyone has their own methods, and reasons for using them. You'd all be liars if you said there weren't loads of places around the internet with instructions to trim minor foliage.

Far be it from me to tell you what to do, but give people your opinion rather than telling someone else their opinion is wrong or bad, because whether you use the methods or not, many people have seen success as a result of this, and many have seen failure.

Edit: Also, I mean no disrespect by answering this question because the answer seems very pompous, but THG I learned that in High School Biology.


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## migia (Mar 14, 2012)

PartyBro420 said:
			
		

> *Well, anything that has an immune system, when able to fight off an invading bacteria, while being weaker right off the bat after spending energy to repair the damage done, it becomes accustomed to what it has to do in order to fight it off more efficiently if it should return, or change.
> 
> All living things change and adapt and strengthen themselves to the conditions they're presented with. Plants are no different.*



I am not experienced with cannabis botany, however, this is the exact logic I was using myself as I believe it may be applied here. I believe those statements above are consistent and correct in *general*.

A perfect example: the flu shot. This is exactly how it works.

Again, not a professional but I will confess that I do read a hell of a lot about a hell of a lot!!


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

migia said:
			
		

> [Just a question] With all due respect.....
> 
> Is this not the whole point of FIM, supercropping, and topping (the bolded, quoted sentence)? We wouldnt want them weaker, I think partybro is correct.......



I believe the reason for fimming etc is to make the plant bigger, give you more nodes. I surely don't hurt my plant to make it stronger, I don't think that's the way to go at all. Hurting a plant does one thing, makes it get healthy again. Since you're hurting the plant during the most important part of the budding cycle, making it use it's energies to heal detracts from it's ability to produce buds. Of course, the plant heals, but then it is behind in budding and you surely know it can't just magically make that time up...right?

So, at best, you're delaying harvest...not sure how this is considered speeding up the growth.

Fimming etc is done during veg, MAYBE early bud if situation demands it, at a time when the gal can direct it's energies to heal and not slow the growth as much!


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

Well, anything that has an immune system, when able to fight off an invading bacteria, *while being weaker right off the bat after spending energy to repair the damage done,* it becomes accustomed to what it has to do in order to fight it off more efficiently if it should return, or change.

I think the boldened part shows that you understand hurting a plant weakens, slows growth and is not helping in bud stage.

I also hope you realize taking leaves is more like denying the plant food more than getting a virus and that the plant will not re-grow the powerhouse used to continue to feed.


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

Imagine it as an electric plant, the electricity is produced by the turbines (or whatever). Say there's 20 turbines producing power, you take 3 away, are you going to be producing as much power??


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

*A perfect example: the flu shot. This is exactly how it works.*

You're not giving it a shot, you're removing it's power plants, stuff that won't be replaced during bud.


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 14, 2012)

I think you're overcomplicating things now. And perhaps taking things meant as general comparisons a little too directly. The bold part you took from what I had said, doesn't mean that something is going to turn out weaker in the end. And we're not growing to just stare at them at 3/4 full maturity.

I hesitate to speak for more than myself, but I believe what we're trying to get across is we're not directly comparing the different things like a flu shot, or a broken leg, in 100% direct context. giving a plant a flu shot could mean giving it a dosage of anything to aid in reversing a negative effect.

Might not have been the best example to use a flu shot, but the idea is still there that the antibodies will recognize the virus the next time it's present and deal with it faster.

If topping a plant isn't hurting it, then trimming leaves wouldn't be either. I don't understand the logic behind your statement?

"*I believe the reason for fimming etc is to make the plant bigger, give you more nodes*. *I surely don't hurt my plant to make it stronger*, I don't think that's the way to go at all. Hurting a plant does one thing, makes it get healthy again."

We're not talking about hurting the plants to the point that is going to shock them into any sort of state. Mother nature does this naturally to plants with wind and rain... So if it appears as a natural condition, why would it be bad to simulate it? Most genetics have become accustomed to wind and rain obviously over the years, or they would never survive.

I think we're all confusing things into a muddled together topic.


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## migia (Mar 14, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> A perfect example: the flu shot. This is exactly how it works.
> 
> *You're not giving it a shot, you're removing it's power plants, stuff that won't be replaced during bud.*



Understood......
Thats why i wrote "in *general*" in my previous post.

I was being abstract......Generalizing is an excellent approach when we are unsure (whats better?). I only want to help here; teach people what I know and learn what they know at the same time.....ya know?
Knowledge: it's all so powerful!


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## dman1234 (Mar 14, 2012)

What an amussing read.


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

*If topping a plant isn't hurting it, then trimming leaves wouldn't be either. I don't understand the logic behind your statement?*

Not many of us top a plant 3 weeks into budding. Topping a plant during veg will indeed slow the grow as well. We're talking two different things here...cutting a plant's branches/topping as opposed to taking away it's ability to photosynthesize. 

I'm listening with an open mind, I just haven't seen a thing that would sway me to believe taking leaves off helps in any manner...


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

*We're not talking about hurting the plants to the point that is going to shock them into any sort of state. Mother nature does this naturally to plants with wind and rain... So if it appears as a natural condition*

What we are talking is reducing a plant's ability to photosynthesize, all injury shock aside! 

I have several plants, any one I walk up to and give a tug to a leaf will mean the leaf stays in place unless given a very forceful tug...because they're healthy leaves on healthy plants. Mother nature doesn't take the healthy leaves with wind or rain...imhe.


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## Roddy (Mar 14, 2012)

One last thing to remember, we're not out to "mimic" mother nature with indoor grows, we should be out to give the absolute best conditions possible.


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 14, 2012)

If mother nature can snap a tree down it can most certainly take a leaf off a MJ plant. 

We may not be trying to mimic mother nature with our indoor grows, but I still don't think it's such a terrible thing to do if you believe it works and end up with no negative results.

As for topping, maybe I'm not so familiar with it, but would you not also be taking off some leaf with this as well? 

mother nature includes animals and humans, anything that's a part of life IMO. 
Like for instance, a deer or family of deer for generations have been grazing an area with mj in it, since deer like to eat it, eventually the seeds produced from the plants would likely stop itself from flowering on the lower portion, and grow to a height at which the deer could no longer reach it without toppling the plant,  to adapt to avoid loss in the future. This could take 15-100 generations worth of breeding to see, but it eventually would present itself.

This technique may be better suited to long term breeding projects where certain goals are in mind as opposed to our personal stash.

Like I mentioned before though, I won't be trimming anything any more because I came to the conclusion that even though I believe it does something, the pros still weigh even with the cons in my mind so the extra effort is a mute point.


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## Roddy (Mar 15, 2012)

*If mother nature can snap a tree down it can most certainly take a leaf off a MJ plant. *

My point is it isn't the norm, it's damage caused by excess.

*We may not be trying to mimic mother nature with our indoor grows, but I still don't think it's such a terrible thing to do if you believe it works and end up with no negative results.*

You may not be able to tell negative results, but there's no doubt a plant deprived of it's ability to work will not be optimum and that equates to negative results...imho

*mother nature includes animals and humans, anything that's a part of life IMO. 
Like for instance, a deer or family of deer for generations have been grazing an area with mj in it, since deer like to eat it, eventually the seeds produced from the plants would likely stop itself from flowering on the lower portion, and grow to a height at which the deer could no longer reach it without toppling the plant, to adapt to avoid loss in the future. This could take 15-100 generations worth of breeding to see, but it eventually would present itself.*

LOL...dunno about you, but I don't have that kind of time and truly, I'm not out to re-invent the wheel!! Pappy always told me, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

*This technique may be better suited to long term breeding projects where certain goals are in mind as opposed to our personal stash.*

I can think of no instance this would be beneficial, but I am open to learning...

I'm guessing many people have tried this, I haven't seen much saying it's a good practice.


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## ozzydiodude (Mar 15, 2012)

> mother nature includes animals and humans, anything that's a part of life IMO.
> Like for instance, a deer or family of deer for generations have been grazing an area with mj in it, since deer like to eat it, eventually the seeds produced from the plants would likely stop itself from flowering on the lower portion, and grow to a height at which the deer could no longer reach it without toppling the plant, to adapt to avoid loss in the future. This could take 15-100 generations worth of breeding to see, but it eventually would present itself.



I see 8 point deriffes with enough neck roast to last all yr :rofl:


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## Roddy (Mar 15, 2012)

lol Ozzy......


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 15, 2012)

The deer thing was an example of how mother nature doesn't just involve the elements to alter the way other things grow/live.

No one person has that kind of time anyway unless they're devoted to the project. That's a (possible) minimum of 5 years if you do everything correctly, all the way up to a quarter of a century to see your results if you manage approx 4 different harvests a year. 

I don't feel like going on and on about this any longer, it's the second time it's come up and caused a crazy amount of controversy.

I can think of one great one, off the top of my head. Teaching genetics to cope with minor loss of ability to photosynthesise. I'm positive there are numerous other ideas that have yet to be imagined as well.

Again, I don't want to put words in anyones mouth, but it seems to me as if you're assuming that I'm just talking about butchering a plant basically. 

I agree that there is less potential for harm in veg stage for cutting, because it's just gonna grow more, but you're never going to convince the people that still do it in flower and don't come to a conclusion themselves that it doesn't work for them, or doesn't do what it's meant to.

maybe i'm crazy and just think too much about it, but it all makes sense in my head :icon_smile: I hope I didn't seem like I was trying to step on anyones toes, I'm a very passionate person about nature/energy because it's all intertwined.

We can all agree to disagree on this I think.


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## Roddy (Mar 15, 2012)

*but it seems to me as if you're assuming that I'm just talking about butchering a plant basically.* 

No, PB, I understand what you're saying and all. For me, even a few leaves taken is too much...take no leaf before it's time!

*but you're never going to convince the people that still do it in flower and don't come to a conclusion themselves that it doesn't work for them, or doesn't do what it's meant to.*

Maybe I just don't understand what it's "meant to" do? What benefits are you supposed to see from taking the leaves?

*I hope I didn't seem like I was trying to step on anyones toes, I'm a very passionate person about nature/energy because it's all intertwined.*

Not at all, I think we share a passion! It's great to actually discuss and disagree in a friendly manner!

*We can all agree to disagree on this I think.*

Yes, yes we can...unless you'd like to change you view! :rofl: J/K, my friend!


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 15, 2012)

In the case of taking the leaves the desired result, from what i've read and understood for myself, is to give the plant more reason than it's light cycle to believe that winter/harsh weather is coming, so it in turn steps up final production preparation and in the normal flowering time essentially is supposed to give you a stronger final product.

You don't have to cut leaves to do this, but it's just another method people use. Some blast heavy metal at plants, some chill them slightly, some cut leaves. Even give them a bit of a shake more than the fans would blow them about.



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> Not at all, I think we share a passion! It's great to actually discuss and disagree in a friendly manner!



2 cheers for weed, if this was about booze someone would have started a real fight


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## Growdude (Mar 15, 2012)

PartyBro420 said:
			
		

> but you're never going to convince the people that still do it in flower and don't come to a conclusion themselves that it doesn't work for them, or doesn't do what it's meant to.
> 
> maybe i'm crazy and just think too much about it, but it all makes sense in my head :icon_smile: quote]
> 
> ...


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## Roddy (Mar 15, 2012)

*Some blast heavy metal at plants*

Mine are pre-conditioned, then LOL!! :headbang: :headbang:

I see now what you're trying to accomplish, THANKS for the reply, PB!! It may not be for me, but I now understand!


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 15, 2012)

No one posted a picture in regards to it hindering either so why are you singling that out?

My first journal i removed leaves from, it turned out great except i got anxious and took them down a week too early. 

2 of the 3 final plants were stunted from beginning, you can see in the first picture. They began to grow sideways so i propped them up with a small shiskabob skewer, until they became able to support themselves. All 8 were germed and planted at the same time and treated equally. 

To be honest the one I cut the most off of tasted the best, whether that had anything to do with me cutting I have no idea, I would assume it didn't. 

Like i already said though, I'm not advising people to trim, or to avoid trimming. It ends up being a mute point in my opinion, you lose a bit from where you trim, you gain the same amount in the rest of the plant in the end.

Do what you feel works for you until you come to the conclusion yourself that it doesn't work. That's what advice is here for, our experimentation.


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## PartyBro420 (Mar 15, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> *Some blast heavy metal at plants*
> 
> Mine are pre-conditioned, then LOL!! :headbang: :headbang:
> 
> I see now what you're trying to accomplish, THANKS for the reply, PB!! It may not be for me, but I now understand!



Heh, it generally takes me a while to coherently put my point together so people can understand it.

I play classical music for mine up until the last month, then it's 3 songs on repeat "RJD - Holy Diver, Pantera - Immortally Insane, and to finish it off I like to mellow out the round with Paul McCartney - Live and Let Die"

Starts off with the epicness of Dio, followed up by a bit of brutality, finished off by some playful suspense.


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## OGKushman (Mar 15, 2012)

Music emanating from garages and houses 24/7 have been known to draw attention from neighbors.

*Just a thought


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## Prospector (Mar 23, 2012)

OOOPs, I also removed enough to plug the potty because I ran out of room in my micro grows and thought that I needed more light deeper into the lower region. This was 4 days ago and the other leaves have done a great job filling in the extra space. I also added an additional 150 watt HPS making a total of 400 watts for 1.5' by 2' area for a few days to energize more leaf growth.

I'll keep reading and since this is my first grow, I will certainly find out how to do it better next time.


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## Roddy (Mar 24, 2012)

*I'll keep reading and since this is my first grow, I will certainly find out how to do it better next time.*

:aok: It's all about learning, and learning and....


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