# Left Plants in the Wrong Hands (please help)



## Dr. GreenBrain (Apr 9, 2009)

Hello,


I asked a trusted friend to look after my plants while I was on vacation last week, and I came back to what looks like some pretty sick plants. I'm not sure if it's because of his doings, but he did accidentally feed the plants twice (Instead of a schedule of Feed, water, water, he did Feed, Feed, water).

I did have some minor problems with the plant that I posted here before I left for my trip. But, before I left I flushed all my plants because the soil PH was very acidic. Please check out the pictures in the other post too, and let me know if you think it's over ferts, soil PH still acidic, or something else. Also, please tell me what I can do to correct the problem.

I don't want to blame my buddy if it's something I did wrong before I left, but he even put in the grow journal that he f-ed a few times. 

The last two pictures are of my little buds!


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## Newbud (Apr 9, 2009)

(Instead of a schedule of Feed, water, water, he did Feed, Feed, water).
 Says it all to me, over fert
If it is a good flush and a return to normal feed pattern should see em right.
Dont sweat it too much unless they dont pull out of it, if new growth seems fine after the flush you'll be cool


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## StoneyBud (Apr 9, 2009)

It's a common misconception that plants can "eat" like humans. You can keep a human alive by feeding it really rich foods every third day and nothing but water between. If you treat a plant that way, you'll kill it or at the very least, make it grow weird.

Your water/nutrient strength should be at a level that allows you to feed the plant with every watering. Reduce your nutrient strength so that you can do that.

What you're doing now is OVERFEEDING them on the "feeding" day, and UNDERFEEDING them on days you don't use any nutrients. The plant won't grow correctly until you adjust your nutrient strength so that the plant receives the same amount of fertilization with every watering.

With the method of feeding/starving your plants that you're using, it would also be nearly impossible to keep your ph steady.

Start with a solution that is 1/8th of the suggested strength on the nutrient container. Use that with every watering. Adjust your ph until you have it where it should be in the nutrient/water solution and make sure to keep it there.

Don't put your plants into flower until you have them healthy again. The conversion to flowering will only aggravate the problem and harm your plants.

What lights and type of nutrients are you using now? What is the suggested level of mix on the container? What strength are you using now?


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## Newbud (Apr 9, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> It's a common misconception that plants can "eat" like humans. You can keep a human alive by feeding it really rich foods every third day and nothing but water between. If you treat a plant that way, you'll kill it or at the very least, make it grow weird.
> 
> Your water/nutrient strength should be at a level that allows you to feed the plant with every watering. quote]
> 
> ...


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## StoneyBud (Apr 9, 2009)

Newbud said:
			
		

> there plenty of soil growers who don't feed that way.


Are you suggesting that a feeding/starving method of caring for plants is better than providing a steady routine of properly balanced nutrients to a plant with every feeding? If so, please tell me what logic you have for this suggestion.


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## Newbud (Apr 9, 2009)

If you take the time to read the thread i not suggesting anything i merely passing on observations.

What you are implying is the same issue i've had, some coco growers will occasionally use plain ph'd water between feeds but i and many others would never dream of it as what you sayin IMO they require a routine of of balanced nutes BUT there routine also works for them.
Same goes for every type of medium including soil.

If it works it works and i dont question there methods even if they do go against my own.

Many people use different methods, dont question my intelligence just because your methods differ.

I subscribe to the same methods as you, but others dont with great success, just because its not your way it doesn't make it wrong


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## AJNAG EKOMS18 (Apr 10, 2009)

they werent burned too bad,just feed it pure water for the next two times and it should be okay,if you dont like the browness on the edge u can just cut it with scissors


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## Mutt (Apr 10, 2009)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> Are you suggesting that a feeding/starving method of caring for plants is better than providing a steady routine of properly balanced nutrients to a plant with every feeding? If so, please tell me what logic you have for this suggestion.


I space out feedings unless they want more. but my medium is always slow releasing nutrients too. using organic medium with several top dressings of worm castings during grow and teas. feeding tends to hang about  Just giving it a kick in the butt when needed.
but it also depends how your growing too. I think if just using concentrated ferts then stable consistant feedings is better IMO.


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## BuddyLuv (Apr 10, 2009)

Soil and Hydro are completely different feedings. In Hydro you set your mix to a certain ppm once a week then top off with water. I have found soil needs less nutes because they retain nutes from previous feedings and would burn if given 1400-1800 ppms a week. His problem does not look bad at all IMO. I have had way worse and still ended up with a great harvest. I think people take their plants alittle too personal and want every leaf to be perfect. Try growing outdoors sometime and you will see that the plant can take far more abuse then what people think.


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## StoneyBud (Apr 10, 2009)

Newbud said:
			
		

> ...just because its not your way it doesn't make it wrong


You're right of course. Some methods work better than others. Some have been proven over time to be more effective than others. Some people learn from others research, others choose to try to prove it wrong.

That's what makes the world go 'round.

I can tell by your obvious displeasure with my post that I've again managed to piss someone off.

I think I'll just be quiet.

Someone has a question, PM me. Otherwise, I'll let others present advice.


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## Elephant Man (Apr 10, 2009)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I space out feedings unless they want more. but my medium is always slow releasing nutrients too. using organic medium with several top dressings of worm castings during grow and teas. feeding tends to hang about  Just giving it a kick in the butt when needed.
> but it also depends how your growing too. I think if just using concentrated ferts then stable consistant feedings is better IMO.



So true

'Feeding constantly at the same level' is a pretty good description of hydro, but has nothing to do with growing in soil at all, especially organically.

Most organic ferts are not readily available to the plant, and if you give them at every watering, there will be a mushroom cloud where your plant was.

All my ferts are dry and pre-mixed in, other than one transplant, they get nothing but water.

There are many mediums used for growing, the only one I have seen totally fail is a closed-mind.

There have been way too many rules thrown at this plant for way too long.


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## blancolighter (Apr 10, 2009)

Hey, you're all right! There's no right or wrong here, just what works for specific sets of circumstances, and we all grow in our own enviroments. What Stoney Bud has said will apply to some grows, and what the others said about feed/water will apply to other grows, there is no "one way is right" method. I myself kinda use a combo of the methods, and my schedule goes something like this: a light watering one day, the very next day a feeding, then I wait for the soil to dry out enough for me to repeat the process again. I feel that the one day of just water in my soil gives the plants a chance to work out any extra nutes it may have, and the feeding the next day keeps the plants nearly constantly eating like stoney bud said. So yea, its kinda a combo I guess of what everyone said. This works in my very specific soil mix though, and by no means would I recommend this to someone else as anything else but brain food.


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## Kupunakane (Apr 10, 2009)

I have to agree here,

   Blancolighter really has said it the right way. I tip my hat to you bro. My own schedual has changed so many times I feel like I will never settle down on a set routine.

 During veg I go with liquid fish emulsion,  and if any of you have ever used this stuff you might remember how badly you can toast your babies. I had to work pretty hard to learn how I needed to use it for the ladies.

  Then just when I think I have a good grip on it all,  I find I'm switching over to the flowering cycle,  and it all changes again.

  Can ferts build up in soil,  and jump out,  and surprise you by cooking your ladies. Oh-hell yes it can, and at the time when you would swear that you got a death grip on it all too. 

   LOL -  I laugh, but have gritted my teeth many times over it.

   Most of you know that I like to grow weird exotics, and that makes it all the more of a challenge. Some babies are so sensitive to ferts that you better be johnny on the spot if you goof even slightly.

   All that being said, remember that the idea is to have each and every one of the ladies dancing for our pleasure. So they need to be treated well. No-one can argue that point. Plants are different too, and one needs to adjust period, Can't argue that either, so I suggest that we share this instead --> :48:


smoke in peace
KingKahuuna


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## StoneyBud (Apr 10, 2009)

blancolighter said:
			
		

> I myself kinda use a combo of the methods, and my schedule goes something like this: a light watering one day, the very next day a feeding, then I wait for the soil to dry out enough for me to repeat the process again. I feel that the one day of just water in my soil gives the plants a chance to work out any extra nuets it may have, and the feeding the next day keeps the plants nearly constantly eating like stoney bud said.


Now, if you continue your reasoning, adjust your nutrient mix down to what your plant will manage and use properly with each watering, your plant would be receiving the perfect amount of nutrients, (with no extras), each watering. This would keep your ph at a more constant level and the plant would grow at it's optimum rate as it would be dealing with constants instead of a roller-coaster rate of nutrient supply. Adjusting the nutrient mix to properly feed the plant at various stages of growth using precise amounts of all variables is what it's all about.

The easy way is to *not* be precise, give the plant what you *think* is the correct amount of nutrients, skip days to counter over feeding and hope for the best.

That also works, but my point is that the more precise method works better and can be reproduced as long as the variables stay at defined amounts.

This is done for many food crops in many labs throughout the world each day with millions of plants. It's why we have the ability to grow the amount of food per/acre that we do, year after year.

The same science is applicable to MJ.

It just takes more work than most are willing to perform.


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## D3 (Apr 10, 2009)

I agree with BuddyLuv, I had one leveled by hail & it came back bigger & better than it was. A friend cut one down to the ground & it grew from just a stalk sticking out of the ground.


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## tcbud (Apr 10, 2009)

I learned something here Stoney, I never even considered to feed at every watering.  I just do the once a week thing after I feel the ferts in the soil are depleting (starting with small doses for small plants).  I guess I am gonna give your way a try.  Feed lightly every watering, and see what happens.  Not like anything in my brain is set in granite, and certainly in this growing area I have lots to learn and hopefully time to learn it.


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## Elephant Man (Apr 10, 2009)

In my opinion, if feeding at every watering is what you want to do, you are much better off going hydro or some other form of inert media, which soil is not.  You are missing the entire point of soil in the first place.

I attempt to mimic nature, and lucky for me, here it does not rain nutes.
I did not create this method of growing, it's been going on for longer than any of us have been here.


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## Alistair (Apr 11, 2009)

Just back off on the nutrients for awhile, Dr. GreenBrain.

Actually, I like StoneyBud's advice.  It makes sense to me.  Why not?  You can feed once every two weeks with X amount of fertilizer, or feed once a week with 1/2X fertilizer.  Who knows?  It just might work out more efficiently.


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## StoneyBud (Apr 11, 2009)

Elephant Man said:
			
		

> In my opinion, if feeding at every watering is what you want to do, you are much better off going hydro or some other form of inert media, which soil is not. You are missing the entire point of soil in the first place.
> 
> I attempt to mimic nature, and lucky for me, here it does not rain nutes.
> I did not create this method of growing, it's been going on for longer than any of us have been here.


Unless you're using organic additions to your soil, your soil is lacking in one thing or another. There is no such thing in nature as "Perfect Soil". There are three ways to resolve deficiencies in soil; Use chemical soil additives, use organic soil additives or a nutrient solution that is added at every watering if you want the plant to grow at it's best.

Mimicking nature is the worst way to grow. You'll learn that if you stick with it. Nature never has a "Perfect Environment". By using an adjusted nutrient solution and using it with each watering, you can make up for what Nature is lacking in.

Or, you can do the same thing by including Organic growing techniques which also don't mimic nature, but make it better than nature does.

Elephant Man, you seem to want to argue with me. If you spent half the time you've spent arguing with me on listening and researching what I've said, you'd be better off.

Millions of people in the world are "Mimicking Nature" by living with no modern alternatives to "Natural Living". Most of them are starving to death.

The countries that use Non-Natural methods to increase harvest weight and nutrient content are the ones that have the best food and plenty of it.

Nature indeed. What a crock. Organics isn't even "Natural". It's a combination of natural substances as an artificially balanced additive to natural soil. Nothing natural about it. Without mans assistance, the soil would remain natural and lacking in the amount and balance of nutrients that allow the plant to grow at it's best possible rate and productiveness.

You go to the best place on earth for soil and take a sample. Test that sample and you'll find it lacking in something that would make a plant grow better. Add those missing parts and the plant will grow better than that "Perfect" soil that came from Nature.

That's *my* opinion of what Nature can do for you.

I haven't missed a thing about how soil growing works. You however have missed the entire point of soil additives, natural or not.


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## chinaman (Apr 11, 2009)

very intersting read...well said stoney)

good day


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## smokeytimes (Apr 13, 2009)

chinaman said:
			
		

> very intersting read...well said stoney


 

I agree Stoney has a lot of years doing this. I would like to think he has seen it all.


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## Mutt (Apr 14, 2009)

:shrug: erm.......
I don't see where Elephant Man even attempted to aurgue. just stating his side.

I think he's trying to replicate the environment of the original landrace and providing it with its natural environment to get as close to true original expression as possible. (he mainly works with Land Race Sativas..occasional hybrid...but landrace sats is his thing)

Also those countries (ours one of the main ones) that use non-natural methods also are greatly damageing our ecosystem. Ever see a deer with deformed antlers near heavily chem fertilized farms? Streams fish population decimated?

Stoney Always side with you on 90% of stuff...this time I can't. I know his fert schedule and its chimed in. Soil mixture commonly found in nature and everything he puts in whether mushrooms, vegetables, it all likes it commonly found in horse cow pastures untilled and unworked. Thats pretty much natural. IMO Its not like he's using anything not readily available right out his door. 

As far as his research....Google Elephunt Man or Elephant Man. I'm 1000% sure you'll find enough information from him for a weeks long read. Probably why he didn't offer much up...posted all over already.



			
				Stoney Bud said:
			
		

> Elephant Man, you seem to want to argue with me. If you spent half the time you've spent arguing with me on listening and researching what I've said, you'd be better off.
> 
> Millions of people in the world are "Mimicking Nature" by living with no modern alternatives to "Natural Living". Most of them are starving to death.
> 
> ...


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## Klicks (Apr 14, 2009)

Okay friends, this was a great read for me today.  I hit and miss with every new type of growing method.  The point is that I really enjoy experimentation   

Right now I'm window growing a two footer with a blue light overhead.  I have a fan on all time kickiing light fluffy breezes around the room.  I have a rolled skirt around the back of her to pick up more of the sun, the skirt is foil with green tule glued over that.  WEIRD  

Don't know what will happen, but if it looks like a girlie and continues to be a girlie.........

And I sure as heck hope the girls I have now produce big time 
Even though MJ is legal here now.........it's gonna be costly.........probably more so than cigarettes 

Forgot where I was....I'sa buzzed.  Anyway, I totally appreciate all  advice I can get in this forum.   Ya'll's my favorite site.  


CARRY ON !!!


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