# What's causing this??



## Treebeard (May 6, 2014)

Been trying to work out why this doesn't look right? Thought it could be heat stress but no other signs of it. The PH drops a lot every day, could be something to do with it?

System is ebb n flow using clay pebbles. Under 2 x 400w. Ec 1.2 PH 5.8. Using GH nutrients.

Any ideas?? 

View attachment image.jpg


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## Treebeard (May 6, 2014)

Better photo? 

View attachment image.jpg


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## BenfukD (May 6, 2014)

plant is reveg.  Do you have light leaks?


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## Grower13 (May 6, 2014)

What are your temps? What strain? 

Looks like reveg kinda to me.


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## Treebeard (May 6, 2014)

Temp 27c & Ak47


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## Grower13 (May 6, 2014)

Could you have a light leak in your flower area/room?


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## Treebeard (May 6, 2014)

I think you could be right! Didn't even think about that. Will it return to normal growth? Any ideas about the drop in PH? I correct the PH up to around 6 and will drop to 5.4 within 24hrs. Thanks for the help


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## Grower13 (May 6, 2014)

If your water is from city tap water you shold let it sit out for 24 or more hours before you add or adjust any thing......... give them 12 hour of complete dark and they will bloom........ you may need to add a week to your flowering time.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 6, 2014)

Could you be trying to mix things up too quick, not letting things buffer properly, and are therefore, maybe not getting good reading in the first place?  Dropping pH is rarely a problem in hydro, most people have it rise.  Are you using good quality calibrated meters?  You can't really draw water, mix nutes, pH, and stick the plants back in the system.  You need to draw water, let it sit 12-24 hours for the chlorine to evaporate, nute the water and then wait at least several hours before you pH.  That will have to set for several hours again before you check the pH and adjust if necessary.  I am thinking that things are not being allowed to buffer and you are pHing down too much without realizing it.    

I also believe that it is looking like a reveg.  Light leaks often cause this.  The leaves will not recover per se, but it will get back to normal growth after a while.  I think this generally results in a longer flowering time too as the plant has stopped the flowering hormone to start vegetative growth again.


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## Growdude (May 6, 2014)

Rapid PH drop in hydro can be a sign of root rot. Look at the roots, are they nice and white?


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## Rosebud (May 6, 2014)

I say it is in re-veg. So you must have a light leak somewhere. If you stop the leak it will return to blooming but will have circling leaves and weird growth for a while first.


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## BenfukD (May 6, 2014)

That plant is reveging.   The end product wont be worth a **** if you don't fix the dark cycle.  And even then your not yielding.  In my opinion flip the light cycle back to 24/0.. let her finish reveging...and pump that Biatch up

Ben


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## Treebeard (May 8, 2014)

Thanks for the replies. Was definitely a light leak, never stood in the room
In the dark so i didn't realise how bad it was! Not solved the PH issue yet though. My water isn't city water, it's basically spring water, it's about 5.4ph and won't read anything on the EC meter. It does have unusually high levels of certain things though, I've got a water analysis somewhere which might be helpful. 

The roots look healthy to me. The only other thing is my PH up is pretty darn old, could it loose its strength over time? 

I used to come on MP quite a lot a few years ago and haven't been on here for ages. There used to be a couple guys who where really helpful called the brothers grunt and stoney bud, are they still about?

Thanks again for the help


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 8, 2014)

The Brothers Grunt do not come here any more.  Sorry to report that Stoney Bud passed away a few years ago.  I still think of him quite often.


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## Treebeard (May 9, 2014)

I'm very sad to hear that, I'm sure he is missed by all, He seemed such a nice soul.

On a different note, I hope to be on MP more frequently so will be around to listen and learn from all of you.

Thanks again


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## SirGreenThumb (May 11, 2014)

Curious, did you stop using the nutes to see if the ph would still drop?


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 11, 2014)

How are you measuring the EC.  I am a plumber and have a real hard time believing that you are taking water from a spring that has 0 ppms.  Even RO water will read something.  I also question water that is 5.4 ph naturally....are you sure your meters are calibrated correctly? 

However if this is true, you are probably in need of some extra Cal-Mag.  Most water has some Ca and Mg occuring naturally in it.  If your water does not, you will probably have to add it to your flowering regime.

How (exactly) are you mixing your nutes and pH'ing your solution?  Are you letting thigs buffer so you get good readings?


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## Treebeard (May 12, 2014)

It would be strange thing to not tell the truth about....I'm measuring using a bluelab truncheon. I've calibrated them many times because I couldn't understand what was going on. I drain then rinse my reservoir, flush through and clean then fill again then add nutrients at rate on GH bottles, let it settle 24hours then check EC & PH. 

The water is completely untreated, the soil is peat. I was wrong about one or 2 things, the water is now from a bore hole which I forgot, has been a spring for many years and the PH is lower than i thought. I managed to find the analysis for you to have a look. 

View attachment water.pdf


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## ShOrTbUs (May 12, 2014)

Offspring_36 said:


> It would be strange thing to not tell the truth about....I'm measuring using a bluelab truncheon. I've calibrated them many times because I couldn't understand what was going on. I drain then rinse my reservoir, flush through and clean then fill again then add nutrients at rate on GH bottles, let it settle 24hours then check EC & PH.
> 
> The water is completely untreated, the soil is peat. I was wrong about one or 2 things, the water is now from a bore hole which I forgot, has been a spring for many years and the PH is lower than i thought. I managed to find the analysis for you to have a look.



well clearly from the report that there is no way your water could read 0 ppm. i would consider calling bluelab and seeing if they will replace your ph pen. if it's reading 0 ppm on your water then it's either not calibrated correctly(i doubt it), or it's faulty.


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## Treebeard (May 13, 2014)

Well this stuff goes way beyond my knowledge really but I did a quick bit of research and apparently  97 us/cm (micro Siemens) is equal to 0.097EC so that might not read on the bluelab?


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 13, 2014)

I'm with shortbus.  Even RO water rarely registers 0.  And water from wells, springs, underground sources generally tend to be teaming with dissolved solids.  Not to imply that you weren't being truthful, just that something is wrong with the whole picture.  As one who works with water all the time and especially non-municipal water, I just found it highly improbable (virtually impossible) that you have a natural source of water with 0 PPMs--it just doesn't happen.  This of course now makes us suspicious of the pH readings.


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## Treebeard (May 13, 2014)

Ok well thanks for the replies. I can't really add anything to help i'm afraid, all I can tell you is what the meters are reading and provide that water analysis, which was done by a geological survey company after the bore hole was put in. The PH reader is definitely calibrated, I can't find the EC calibration fluid at the moment which is annoying.  I know very little of chemistry but I know the water is a little unusual, a copper water tank lasts less than 5 years before corroding through, I've had to install a stainless steel one now. And anyone who has blonde hair and washes it here it goes a little green from the copper after a while! 

I doubt any of that helps but it's interesting. 

So based on the water analysis is there anything that looks like it could cause a problem?


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## trillions of atoms (May 14, 2014)

Get an r/o filter and forget about what might be in there. Focus on getting some fresh buffer and calibration solution. Get two points of test not just one thats a ph of 7. try and get 4 or 10 or all three and calibrate with them all to make the meter more accurate.


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## TrollMaster5000 (May 14, 2014)

i thought the " claw " was a N tox ?  :confused2:


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## trillions of atoms (May 15, 2014)

It does- that and big ph swing can cause it.

Are we discussing his overfert issue or light leak?

 He had both. I saw the curl and thought that was his question too at first. Then noticed the sprigs of leaves popping through the buds.

I was talking about the last question he asked about his water quality.

:bong:


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## TrollMaster5000 (May 15, 2014)

trillions of atoms said:


> It does- that and big ph swing can cause it.
> 
> Are we discussing his overfert issue or light leak?
> 
> ...


it was hard to tell by the pic i thought he was talking about the claw its all i noticed really  
 cheers


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## Treebeard (May 19, 2014)

Right I've now calibrated the meters with various calibration points and they are all correct. EC meter was correct anyway and still reads nothing in the tap water. I've just adjusted the PH with some new PH up so will see if that helps. With both my EC meter and the water analysis reading very low EC surely they can't be wrong. I don't understand why I'd want an RO machine?? Isn't that for hard water?


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## Treebeard (May 19, 2014)

Oh the only leaves that are curling are the weird ones from the re-veg, there's no other sign of overfert, It's only at 1.2ec so shouldn't cause a problem?


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## trillions of atoms (May 23, 2014)

If the are still curled its not going to grow out of it those leaves will stay the same . If they started recently there is still a problem.


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## orangesunshine (May 23, 2014)

i have my doubts that ur water is causing ur plants to re-veg---but if u are convinced that is the case---u may consider buying a reverse osmosis waster filter---if i were u---i would also double check for light seeping into the room during the dark period---make sure ur timer is giving u the proper dark period---check ur nutes to be sure u are not feeding excessive N by mistake


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## zipflip (May 27, 2014)

IME, too much nitrogen for a lot of sativas or even some sat doms they will show signs as if reveging as stretching of buds, etc....  all without showin any signs of overfert burn that u typical attribute with overfeeding...  either way id bet dollars to donuts its dimply doin the reveg thing form too hugh N levels. even with organic soil mixes ive doen back in the days wheile tryin to get my mix right and id have too much N in it I would get this, time to time.  like I said mostly wit sat's and sat doms.  also could just simply be genetics. is it bagseed by chance. and if so is it some brick shwag bag seed..  if so then prolly some sativa genetics im sure .
 also too high of temps in flower can cause excess stretching when they suppose to be fattening up buds.  its their way of keepin cool getting more air thru buds to keep cool I  imagine


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