# Need ideas for new grow space



## lyfespan (Dec 22, 2014)

Well I finally have the new space acquired, now I'm trying to develop the best layout for perpetual growing. Meaning I'm going to need

1. a mother and clone room
2. Veg room
3. I'm hoping for 2 bloom rooms
4. Drying and curing area
5. General work room(transplanting and such)

I have plenty of power, there are several roof penetrations to hookup to for exhausting air(20' ceilings), I will be leaving room for van deliveries at the roll up door. 

View attachment image.jpg


I will have a front office/living area in the 14x24area as well.

I will be fine tuning the measurements on here tomorrow, after I properly measure the space. This is just rough overall measurements.


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## Joe420Camel (Dec 23, 2014)

any HVAC in place already?
temp range in your area?  like coldest winter temp to hottest summer 

lots of height to play with... "too much" (for now)
2 levels when needed but a "ceiling" of some sort for now could provide benefits... only certain areas/rooms  



[not exactly sure if/how it would effect my input but...] 
Is this 100% legal or ... ?


--->SECURITY<---


"proper" chemical storage area

clean ... cant have the back door open and UPS [NO offence Hamster L.] throwing boxes into your grow room (air)

drainage... lots of water around.. poopoo happens, be ready
electrical runs... UP UP and AWAY from harms reach
air... 2 separate or shared cooling/grow.  dehumidify/filter and recycle or swap-in from outside

LED / HPS 


--

LOTS of Industrial / business stuff here to look @ and get ideas / buy.
http://www.grainger.com/

:48:


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## lyfespan (Dec 23, 2014)

Joe420Camel said:


> any HVAC in place already?
> temp range in your area?  like coldest winter temp to hottest summer
> 
> lots of height to play with... "too much" (for now)
> ...


I'm all legal, nonprofit collective.
Right now I'm just looking to lay the space out, all other logistics will be handled after spaces are set. Yes I have ac, fans lights , I'm in SoCal, and we are heading into winter temps should be staying pretty cool, I have heaters. 

Lol at security, yes everything will be all closed up in individual rooms, so I can park a van inside, and receive deliveries,  all ele is over head drops,  I have water and drains. Plus everything will be on drained tables so I can contain all water.

So far I'm thinking
Veg room 10x14 a crossed from the rr, next to that bloom room 10x14, down the rr side , divide into 3 6x10 rooms.


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## Joe420Camel (Dec 23, 2014)

right on!  
never know where the -0- line is these days 

big room broken down into sub rooms with hallway connecting  

wall placement takes longer than spewing topics out... need a little time

LOL @ security ? ... ...   then I suggest plenty of insurance (health and property)
but
-->room layout<-- is the topic and I shall return (on topic)


COOL little online room layout program/sight:  http://www.homestyler.com/designer 

.


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## lyfespan (Dec 23, 2014)

Security is alarms, and ip webcams


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## orangesunshine (Dec 23, 2014)

I would simply divide space into two rooms one half size for cloning mother and veg...second room double in size for flowering


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## lyfespan (Dec 23, 2014)

orangesunshine said:


> I would simply divide space into two rooms one half size for cloning mother and veg...second room double in size for flowering



These are the things I don't think about, how the plants will be the biggest in the bloom room, which will require me to make that area as you said double to my veg room.

Thanx for that heads up.

I'm thinking I will probably use 6-10   1000 watt sun system ACDE fixtures, these are air cooled double ended fixtures. Bloom room size is looking to be 10x14, but I might make it bigger to have walking room all the way around the tables, plus I would like to have all plants off the walls by about 2ft.


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## orangesunshine (Dec 23, 2014)

where's the water rezzy going---maybe consider pvc/speghetti hose with emmitters for watering if your in dirt---think i would also run 2-3' isles down the middle---8 wall mounted oscillating fans---2 rows 4' wide on the sides and 2- 5' middle rows of plants---space the hoods 2' apart on each row---if you have climate control you could skip the air cooled hoods/ducting and use a simple bulb with a bat ray wing type reflector---whats your medium---5 gal hydro buckets would work great here---do you have a drain on a concrete floor


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## zem (Dec 23, 2014)

it sounds a lot like my typical growroom only scaled down like 10x LOL I run 2x400w flowering and i have cloning and vegging in a chamber with 3x36w fluro tubes + 3x23w cfl. I like to close the flowering chambers completely like a box on a table and leave everything else open, this way i have only the required space for flowering where i cannot work easily because of light period constraints, so the rest of the room and the res that waters my flowering plants are all accessible at all times. I placed the vegging and flowering chamber on a shelf and placed another shelf on its top to store things. just next to the veg table is a sink for washing and working with water. i like to use a single fan to ventilate bothe spaces, but on your scale, i guess it will only make sense to make separate venting systems for veg and flowering as i don't see this happening with a single fan with so many watts.  place the res under the tables, and utilize all the surface area that you have, make use of height by making shelves on which you can veg or maybe even flower. place sinks and tools in strategic spots for practicality. to me, it's only a fantasy to build such a grow op


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## lyfespan (Dec 23, 2014)

orangesunshine said:


> where's the water rezzy going---maybe consider pvc/speghetti hose with emmitters for watering if your in dirt---think i would also run 2-3' isles down the middle---8 wall mounted oscillating fans---2 rows 4' wide on the sides and 2- 5' middle rows of plants---space the hoods 2' apart on each row---if you have climate control you could skip the air cooled hoods/ducting and use a simple bulb with a bat ray wing type reflector---whats your medium---5 gal hydro buckets would work great here---do you have a drain on a concrete floor



I am looking into a RO unit, and will have a 100 gallon res., I'm still going with soil for now, because I think I will have enough to worry about with the climate amend lights as well as babying new unfamiliar strains. I'm hoping for 1 1/2-2 feet of space all the way around the room, as well as isles between the tables. I'm still going with air cooled hoods, I'm in SoCal, and summer will prove to be a challenge trying to keep cool.  I will be running watering lines to each plant and will have 4 different phases of flowering in the bloom room, all about 2 weeks apart meaning in going to have to have separate  tanks for each of the time frames in flower, ie early bloom, mid, late and flushing. I'm doing the system to get away from hand watering. I will engineer and build a pump and sprink valve timer bank to control the watering. And so far there are no floor drains, but not like I can't plan and put one in, I'm the TI contractor anyway, just gotta pull building permits.


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## lyfespan (Dec 23, 2014)

zem said:


> it sounds a lot like my typical growroom only scaled down like 10x LOL I run 2x400w flowering and i have cloning and vegging in a chamber with 3x36w fluro tubes + 3x23w cfl. I like to close the flowering chambers completely like a box on a table and leave everything else open, this way i have only the required space for flowering where i cannot work easily because of light period constraints, so the rest of the room and the res that waters my flowering plants are all accessible at all times. I placed the vegging and flowering chamber on a shelf and placed another shelf on its top to store things. just next to the veg table is a sink for washing and working with water. i like to use a single fan to ventilate bothe spaces, but on your scale, i guess it will only make sense to make separate venting systems for veg and flowering as i don't see this happening with a single fan with so many watts.  place the res under the tables, and utilize all the surface area that you have, make use of height by making shelves on which you can veg or maybe even flower. place sinks and tools in strategic spots for practicality. to me, it's only a fantasy to build such a grow op



Well let your mind run wild man, I'm looking into all possibilities. This will be home for the next year at least, so I want to pre plan for any **, so I don't have to rework **** when it's full of girls.

For air handling I'm looking into a 33000 cfm air handler for my exhausting, and 2 15000 cfm intake fans. Yes you read those right, I'm using commercial equipment that will be roof mounted.

I intend on having shelves for clone trays, as well as for seedlings and younger girls, mothers will have rolling stands for each.


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## Joe420Camel (Dec 23, 2014)

isolation space (room) for incoming clones?

2:1 flower to veg... see, ratios like that are things I don't know being a stealth-cabinet grower. 
[but I own a 100k ft2 building of industrial, light manufacturing rental space so I know big(ger) buildings ]

Wall in too much at first and then sub-divide that space into what you are using now and what's just storage for now.
Any "extra" room(s) can be considered flex-space and can change into whatever you need.

Reverse think it... what WON'T/can't be grow space ---> ALL else IS grow space.

[yaya Joe, now draw some walls dude! LOL]

EDIT:
nope still brain-storming, sorry

bringing in outside air bugs me... 
filtering/manipulating (RH/temp, Co2/O2 etc) inside air seems "safer" in my mind


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## lyfespan (Dec 23, 2014)

I just ordered all the table and rack makings, everything was being clearances at lowes.

I'm planning on 3-  10'x26" tables in my flower room and 3- 6'x26" for veg, and mothers all with slope, casters, vinyl corrugate sheeting tops and collection drains to take care of excess water.

I got 2 of these http://www.lowes.com/pd_71034-80752-184874C-DS_0__?storeNumber=0769&selectedLocalStoreBeanArray=%5Bcom.lowes.commerce.storelocator.beans.LocatorStoreBean%402be22be2%5D&productId=3473479&ipTrail=75.140.23.122for clones and seedlings. I like these because you can hook a t-5 to the underside of each shelf. Again on casters too..

Just had a thought I think I'm going to put double doors on a few of the rooms, for larger accessibility.


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## orangesunshine (Dec 24, 2014)

socal---we be neighbors---if you plan on perpetual grow imo a/c climate control s/b #1 consideration sparing no expense cause we know summer temps will tip 100 real quick ruining a crop---you might also reconsider the r/o water cause the waste from r/o is pretty substantial and may not be needed if the tap is decent---if you do decide to go w/the r/o you might also consider coco instead of soil---i look forward to anything about the new spot you care to share---bigger badder is always better


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## Joe420Camel (Dec 24, 2014)

.

**dimensions are "close" @ BEST but its a start

the "garage" area needs refinement... pushed up or down to give max space on the side its NOT on. 
:48:


edit
20' tall walls?
insulated "drop-ceiling" enough barrier? 
the entire air "pocket" above all the room and hallway ceilings is a MASSIVE heatsink/temp ballast you could circulate into and out of each room (from above) individually while manipulating the large "pool" of air they draw from... which IS separated from the garage by a 20' monster. 

View attachment lyfepan-layout-1.jpg


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## lyfespan (Dec 24, 2014)

orangesunshine said:


> socal---we be neighbors---if you plan on perpetual grow imo a/c climate control s/b #1 consideration sparing no expense cause we know summer temps will tip 100 real quick ruining a crop---you might also reconsider the r/o water cause the waste from r/o is pretty substantial and may not be needed if the tap is decent---if you do decide to go w/the r/o you might also consider coco instead of soil---i look forward to anything about the new spot you care to share---bigger badder is always better



Well hello there. Climate control is all handled, I have my own specialist, hell I even have portable cart A/C units. If I have to move or cool air he does all my calcs. I'm done dealing with the water ph issues, and with water paid, the RO unit seems not too expensive. Never gone the coco route, that triple and quad washed stuff gets expensive, like coco connoisseur. I'm not washing 40 bales of coco that's for sure.

I'm taking suggestions to try and make it bigger badder, but efficient as well.


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## lyfespan (Dec 24, 2014)

Joe420Camel said:


> .
> 
> **dimensions are "close" @ BEST but its a start
> 
> ...



This is very close to what I'm drawing up, I am doing a lower ceiling about 12-14 ft, too allow the for the heat buffer zone, I will be exchanging that air separate from the air below, all intake air will be cooled and drawn from lowest points, but that's all for my air specialist to handle.

Average temps in there now is 64-70. 

This is my initial trial spot, I will only be here for 1 yr. I hope, lol


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## orangesunshine (Dec 28, 2014)

if you don't use coco or hydro---r/o is not worth the expense---the whole point of r/o is sterile water of which in most cases isn't needed with bagged soil---same as coco---you have 100% control of the water/grow medium compositions---no washing needed for most coco---roots makes a good product with added perlite---botnicare blocs could be added for a better blend with less perlite---you could recycle the coco and your good to go---are you married to a nute line yet???if not check out the heavy 16 line


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## lyfespan (Jan 1, 2015)

orangesunshine said:


> if you don't use coco or hydro---r/o is not worth the expense---the whole point of r/o is sterile water of which in most cases isn't needed with bagged soil---same as coco---you have 100% control of the water/grow medium compositions---no washing needed for most coco---roots makes a good product with added perlite---botnicare blocs could be added for a better blend with less perlite---you could recycle the coco and your good to go---are you married to a nute line yet???if not check out the heavy 16 line



I have tons of GH I'm going thru, I'm looking to the APTUS line, and NPK raw. Soil feeding and conditioning are also where I'm headed, and possible a DWC run.


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## lyfespan (Jan 1, 2015)

Ordered the fixtures for the veg room, found some HO T-5  12 lamps, so I got 4, those along with the few other 6 and 8 lamp fixtures, I think my room is covered. But then again 12 lamp fixtures for 170 I could always use more


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## Joe420Camel (Jan 1, 2015)

did you have more accurate measurements?

DWC is easy, IMO, but you'll really want (need) a continuous read-out ph/ppm(temp) meter.
So easy to walk past, glance @ the #'s and know its all good or needs tweaking VS bring out the pens and rinse them off and storage liquid for the ph etc.


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## zem (Jan 1, 2015)

imo a big scale grow is not easy with a DWC system. i would go for flood and drain, or drip systems, but if you are determined to eventually grow in soil, then imo it is best to just start with soil and skip hydro


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## lyfespan (Jan 2, 2015)

Actual measurements and utility locations for new space
View attachment image.jpg


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## lyfespan (Jan 2, 2015)

Off to go look at drums to build my automated watering system, 

1. 275gal
2. 55gal
3. 55gal
4. 20gal
5. 20gal


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## Joe420Camel (Jan 2, 2015)

Sweet! 
(you made CLEAR where the dimension went to IE OD or ID of room/wall :heart 

I will bang out a drawing tonight!

Too bad I don't have the drawing program I worked with for 10 years (won't run on PC with an OS newer than Win2k... emulator?) 
I did filing room layout/optimization for Dr's offices and hospitals.


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## Joe420Camel (Jan 2, 2015)

.

I'm going to keep the window open and see if you have any input I can edit in.

So feel free to throw ideas around

I threw in a wall dividing the electrical/water room from the rest and assumed you would be walling in the ENTIRE garage area... just assumptions
:48: 

View attachment PICT1129.jpg


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## lyfespan (Jan 4, 2015)

multifarious said:


> Free Download
> 
> http://www.sketchup.com/



Thanx for this big time


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## Joe420Camel (Jan 4, 2015)

wow I think (I have not opened or run the program yet) that may be just what the Dr. ordered...

FP3D (floor plan) was my program, looks like there are a few free versions out there.

Tonight's project (after rez swap)


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## lyfespan (Jan 4, 2015)

Well I had the 4 lights fixtures on order, 12 lamp HO T-5s. Those were so cheap I went ahead and ordered 2 more. That brings the total lamp count to 72 lamps, 3888watts, 360,000 lumens covering 140 sq ft, I think that's a good start. Next I will see about a few around on the walls.


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## lyfespan (Jan 4, 2015)

Kinda thinking something like this for lighting layout, I have the veg room lights all here, 6  12 lamp T-5 fixtures to start with. In the bloom room, I will be using SunSystems air cooled 1000 watt double ended fixtures, 10 of them, later I might look at adding LEP, LEC, or LED to aid the blooming spectrum.

View attachment image.jpg


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 4, 2015)

Joe420Camel said:


> .
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That is a sweet setup you sketched up. You even kept his boxed in deliver part he wanted.

Can't wait to see the finished product.


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## lyfespan (Jan 4, 2015)

Trying to get a list of equipment needed, I almost forgot about wall mount fans, and clone rack. I'm sure I'm missing other things oh like a water test and monitoring system, and what else. Let's hear it what els might I need


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## Joe420Camel (Jan 5, 2015)

overall sizes add wall thickness... I.D. should be correct 

View attachment supersize.jpg


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## lyfespan (Jan 5, 2015)

Joe420Camel said:


> overall sizes add wall thickness... I.D. should be correct



Looks great, I'm thinking the little roomby the garage area will just be left open for dirt work, ie cement mixer and workspace


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## lyfespan (Jan 7, 2015)

Well today was a deal scoring day,
 7- four tube T-5 fixtures for 100$,

 3pumps to move my water around the shop 120

3  triple, and one double Orbit sprinkler manifold with sprinkler valves for 80

2 sprinkler timers and outdoor timer boxes for 40, 

count less other small items I spent 380 today, on 1200 worth of equipment,

 I LOVE LIQUIDATION CENTERS.


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## DankHobbyist (Jan 8, 2015)

With RO mix it 2:1 with tap if tap is not nasty if you have good tap use it any way.


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## lyfespan (Jan 8, 2015)

DankHobbyist said:


> With RO mix it 2:1 with tap if tap is not nasty if you have good tap use it any way.



I scored a prefiltter today to run in front of the RO unit, and the RO unit has 1:1 capability


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## lyfespan (Jan 8, 2015)

lyfespan said:


> Well today was a deal scoring day,
> 7- four tube T-5 fixtures for 100$,
> 
> 3pumps to move my water around the shop 120
> ...



Oh I forgot the per filter unit for my water system, that was free.


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## lyfespan (Jan 10, 2015)

Very nice, someone else working on a project I am.


Here my watering system layout from supply to plant.

Pre filter for sediment-> RO system-> 275 gallon tank, with air stone and circulation pump-> 110v pump, remote controlled, or timer activated-> jandy valve motor activated-> 2-275 tank with air stone and circulation pump, one for the veg room, one for the bloom room-> 110v pump, remote controlled, or timer activated-> sprinkler manifold with solenoid valves, remote controlled or timer activated-> 1/2 PVC lines with drip line manifolds every 4'-> 1/4 lines with drip emitters 1/2 gpm, four per plant.

Pre filter $20.00 
RO. $200.00
275 tank. $100.00 ea
In line transfer pump. $20.00 ea
Sprinkler manifold w/ valves. $30.00 ea
1/2 PVC sch 20 20' length $2.00 ea
1/4 drip line 100'. $10.00
1/2 gpm drip emitters 50pcs. $1.00
12 station orbit IRIS timer w/ remote $200.00
Single pole 120v w/ 24v coil contactor. $10.00 ea
Sprinkler timer box. $10.00 ea
12x12x4 ele pull box. $20.00

With this system I'm able to water from anywhere in the world as it's web based, I will hard pipe my warehouse with the PVC, I will be using the sprinkler timers 24v signal to activate contactors to operate my transfer pumps either by the timer, with the remote that the timer comes with, or with the web access app.

RO will fill the 275 tank for storage, a pump will move it to a motorized jandy valve that will fill the tank either in the bloom, veg, or mother rooms

The sprinkler manifolds will have the same transfer pump system before the valves, this will be my pressure to the sprinkler manifold, which of course will be hooked to the timer, and will feed the drip system at each table.

Waste water will be drained from tables and into collection for testing. 


In front of the RO and in back of the RO is a dual TDS sensor, it costs $30.00

And the Hanna monitoring system is $600.00

So for 1000 bucks I have a system I can operate with a remote control, it's on timers, and I can access it from the web.
Thank you I'll be here all week.


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## orangesunshine (Jan 10, 2015)

Thank you I'll be here all week.


lol---i already bought tickets for the 10pm show tomorrow---are tix for the slide show still available


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## lyfespan (Jan 11, 2015)

orangesunshine said:


> Thank you I'll be here all week.
> 
> 
> lol---i already bought tickets for the 10pm show tomorrow---are tix for the slide show still available



You know it, would be much of a show if they weren't.


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## lyfespan (Jan 11, 2015)

Given the rough layout dimensions over to a friend over at Nanolux, to optimize the lighting. Really want the new DE fixtures


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## lyfespan (Jan 17, 2015)

Ok finally nailed down the room sizes.

Bloom room- 13' 10"x14', as close as I could get to 14x14.

Veg room- 10'x10', this allows for the lights to be spaced off the walls 1' all the way around.

Open work space-9'x7'


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## Joe420Camel (Jan 17, 2015)

right on 

I brought my favorite toy home for the weekend to measure out (and draw up) my basement. 

I'll update your drawing too. :48:  
[ same room/hall layout? - 3' doors?  -  entire 1/3 left open for garage area?  ]

possibly start a thread of my own.

. 

View attachment PICT1142.jpg


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## 000StankDank000 (Jan 18, 2015)

The DE fixtures are so Awesome lifespan you going with them?


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## lyfespan (Jan 18, 2015)

Joe420Camel said:


> right on
> 
> I brought my favorite toy home for the weekend to measure out (and draw up) my basement.
> 
> ...



Oh hell yeah baby I used mine all day today, building walls in the office space/ living area.

Here's a rough dirty drawing of the areas I measured out last night
View attachment image.jpg


The 14' runs towards the door, that 13'10"wall couldn't be bigger because of that existing door coming into the warehouse area.


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## lyfespan (Jan 18, 2015)

000StankDank000 said:


> The DE fixtures are so Awesome lifespan you going with them?



That's the hope, budget or sponsoring allowing.


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## NorCalHal (Jan 18, 2015)

IMO...the key is maximizing your power, meaning..running as many lights in an area as the power will allow. 100 amp 3 phase will allow you to run about 18 lights or so with all the cooling and accessories. In the scheme of things...it's not much power for a shop that big.
That's a big shop to only run a 14x14 flower room, especially if your gonna run DE set-ups. I am not sure if you started swingin' hammers or not, but really take a look at maximizing your flower room.

As far as the Veg room, it doesn't need to be near as big. I understand that you want a perpetual grow, but once you place them in the flower room, the plants will double in size, so you can get away with a smaller veg.

What are your plans for cooling? 5 ton AC? Mini split?

For security, take a look at SimpliSafe. Do it your self set up with 24/7 monitoring. If something happens, they call YOU, not the cops. I run these alarms in all my spots.

The biggest mistake I see folks make in large warehouse grows is the main exhaust, or rather the lack of one. It is VERY important to exhaust air from the main warehouse, replenishing the air in the shop. You shouldn't need a powered intake, as the warehouse door itself allows air into the shop. There is always a gap at the top of the roll up door.

Think about a filtered trim area. I personally just trim in the main flower room, as that is where the filters are for the most part. Trim time is the most vulnerable time, maximum reekage.

Are you gonna run sealed rooms with CO2 or pull air? It's tit for tat really.

Make sure your electrician knows whats up. Use 3phase breakers with 3 phase contactors and a 110 timer to fire the contactor to fire the main lights. Unless you are going with Gavita's, in that case, have dedicated live outlets wired for the lights and trigger them by using the EL1 or 2 controller by Gavita. Balancing your elec panel is CRITICAL. Prob the most important part of firing up a big show.


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## lyfespan (Jan 18, 2015)

NorCalHal said:


> IMO...the key is maximizing your power, meaning..running as many lights in an area as the power will allow. 100 amp 3 phase will allow you to run about 18 lights or so with all the cooling and accessories. In the scheme of things...it's not much power for a shop that big.
> That's a big shop to only run a 14x14 flower room, especially if your gonna run DE set-ups. I am not sure if you started swingin' hammers or not, but really take a look at maximizing your flower room.
> 
> *I'm really limited by this panel, hence the size of the bloom room, I figure I can only get about 10 DE running 110% @220V, that's about 55-60 amps I guess I could take the bloom room up to 250 sqft. Based on a 5x5 footprint*
> ...


*guess that's me, I'm doing all the wiring, lol. I was thinking 3 phased contactors fired by a 24V coil triggered from a sprinkler timer, but the EL2 would be nice, just need to wire 10 220V outlets in the ceiling.*


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## lyfespan (Jan 18, 2015)

Just added up the amps for the veg room lights, 55amps, yikes.
Add in the bloom lights 55amps, looks like a new panel is in my future.

Well 225 amp 3phase. I'm not paying for 400 when I know I'm going to bounce in a year.


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## lyfespan (Jan 30, 2015)

Security ordered, found out I'm on high leg delta, fml, put in for panel upgrade from my cheesy 100 amp 120/208 panel. Dam city is getting noisy now, can't wait till I'm all in. I got girls growing at an alarming rate, wanted to get them into the new space before transplanting again, but I got roots coming out of the bottom of the bags.

Ahhh I feel like Tweek, Aahh Too Much Pressure!


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