# The benefits of Growing with Organics



## Mr.Wakenbake (May 11, 2007)

This is not my work.. this is courtesy of Doobiebro from 420genetics.com..


*Growing with Organics* 			 			 			 		 		 		 		The first and best reason to consider using organic fertilizers instead of chemicals is that there is almost zero chance that you will burn (overfertilization causing injury or death) the plants with them. When fed organic substances, plants will only take in the nutrients they need, leaving the rest in the soil. Additionally, organic fertilizers are broken down slowly in the soil by microorganisms, which ensures a steady supply of nutrients to your plants; also, lots of soil microorganisms are good for the soil and consequently, your plants as well.

Chemical fertilizers, on the other hand, are in a highly soluble form and are generally of a much higher concentration than organic fertilizers. Upon applying them to the soil, they are quickly taken up by the roots. Because they are so concentrated, this rapid action will cause the plant to take in toxic levels of nutrients if the fertilizer is overapplied, leading to injury and even death if the levels are high enough. Additionally, chemical fertilizers leave salts behind in the soil. If the plant is not flushed periodically (every 1-2 months), these salts will build up to levels that are dangerous to the plants. (As a related note, if the soil is not flushed just prior to harvest, the taste of the smoke will be adversely affected.) Finally, chemical fertilizers have an adverse effect on soil microorganisms, including earthworms.

Beyond the issues of soil chemistry and nutrient uptake, there is little question that using organic substances are better for the environment, even when growing indoors. Organic fertilizers - blood and bone meal, fish emulsion, manure, worm castings - are renewable. Petroleum, which chemical fertilizers are synthesized from, is not.
For the outdoor grower, choice of fertilizer has an even more profound effect. Successful outdoor growing is closely linked with the health of the soil. Chemical fertilizers, as mentioned, have an adverse effect on soil life, which decreases the biodiversity and overall health of the soil. Chemicals are also far more soluble than organics, and are often washed away with rain or a too-heavy watering. Not only does this not help your plant, it also causes a potential pollution problem - for instance, toxic algae blooms in lakes and ponds are often linked with fertilizer run-off from lawns.

Organics are not without their drawbacks, however, especially to the indoor grower. Some organic fertilizers, fish emulsion in particular, have an odor that may offend delicate noses. (However, any security measures involving air filtering or ionization should keep the smell to a minimum.) Also, because organics encourage soil life, there are sometimes more problems with insects, particularly fungus gnats. Finally, organics require a greater investment of time and effort: chemical fertilizers' main advantage is their ease of use.

In the event that you face insect problems, there are a number of organic controls at your disposal. The easiest homemade, all-purpose bug killer is about a teaspoon of soap (I prefer Dr. Bronners Eucalyptus or Peppermint, which are generally eco-friendly and may have additional insecticidal effects) in a spray bottle of water. Spray any bugs you see, the plants (including the undersides of the leaves!) and the soil surface thoroughly with this solution. The soap coats the outsides of the bugs' bodies, which suffocates them.
Another, stronger option is Tobacco tea. The nicotine in tobacco is one of the more potent poisons known, and will generally wipe out even mites, which are usually quite difficult to kill. It's worth remembering that nicotine is poisonous, so keep that in mind. (Unless you also smoke cigarettes, in which case, go crazy.) Here is a recipe:
Buy a package of Chewing Tobacco and put the whole package into 1 gallon of warm water. Let it stand in a warm place overnight 12 hours minimum. Filter the solution using a coffee filter and put it into a clean spray device. You can add 4 tablespoons of dish soap to this and spray the foliage down. Make sure you get the mites. Spray the tops and bottoms of the leaves. Once you have done this sparay the floor and walls in the grow area. Bear in mind that the spray may brown the leaf tips and visible pistils. This is a very powerful contact insecticide.
If you feel like going the store-bought route, a product called Safer Insecticidal Soap has been used with good results. As a final resort, you can use insecticides made from pyrethins, which are synthesized from certain varities of Chrysanthemums. Although they are reportedly non-toxic to humans and animals, they are a potent toxin and probably shouldn't be used anytime near harvest.
With any insecticide, multiple treatments over a 1- to 3-week period will probably be necessary to kill the bugs, plus any new ones that hatch after your first applications.
Finally, perhaps the best route is to go outside and catch some ladybugs (or order them from a nursery or garden supply). Ladybugs are vicious insect killers, but won't touch your plants.

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*Notes on Some Commonly Used Organic Ferts:*

*Blood Meal:* 13 - 0 - 0
Blood meal has one of the highest concentrations of Nitrogen of any organic fertilizer, and is consequently a popular choice for the vegetative growth period. In its dry and slow-acting form, it can be mixed in with the soil at a rate of 1 to 2 tablespoons per gallon of soil mix. However, many growers prefer to use it as a soluble fertilizer as it acts very quickly without much danger of burning - much like the action of a chemical fertilizer, but without the risks.
To make blood meal tea, soak 1 tablespoon of blood meal in a gallon of water for 5 to 7 days. The longer you wait, the higher concentration of N the tea will have. Shake well, then strain out the solids and water your plants with the tea.

*Bone Meal:* 1 - 11 - 0
Bone meal is high in Phosphorus, and is most suitable for the flowering period. However, as it is a slow-release fertilizer, it is fine to add to the soil earlier in the grow period. (Perhaps the best course of action is to add it to the mix you perform your final transplant into.) One caution about bone meal, especially in Europe, is that many growers will not use it for fear of spreading Mad Cow Disease. Although this has not been proven, it is wise to bear this in mind.

*Fish Emulsion:* 5 - 1 - 1
Fish emulsion is a liquid solution made from decomposed fish and sometimes other ingredients. It is an exceedingly gentle fertilizer and is thought by many growers to be the best "first fert" to use on young plants. Its NPK ratio is also ideal for vegetative growth. It is usually mixed with water at a rate of 1 to 3 tablespoons per gallon.

*Worm castings:* 0.5 - 0.5- 0.3
Also known as worm compost or good ol' worm sh*t, this may be the single best all-purpose fertilizer. Although the nutrient levels are relatively low, worm castings somehow have amazing effects on plant vigor, and anyone who has used them can testify to their effectiveness. They are very gentle on plants, making them ideal for seedlings, and also contain micronutrients. Worm castings can be used as part of the soil mix (no more than 15% total volume is suggested) or can be made into tea (1 part WC to 5 parts water) and applied as watering solution or as a foliar fertilizer.

*Kelp Meal:* 1 - 0.5 - 2.5
Kelp meal provides over 60 trace elements, plus growth promoting hormones and enzymes. As such, it is often used to ensure the plant is properly supplied with micronutrients. Can be used as part of the soil mix (1-2 tablespoons/gallon) or brewed into tea at the same rate.


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## newgreenthumb (May 14, 2007)

Good post.  The best thing about organics to is that it will contain more of the micronutrients and trace elements than synthetic ferts and the lower sodium content is wonderful.  Remember the old addage "feed the soil and not the plant". :farm:


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## Professor bongwater (May 14, 2007)

Nice addition Mr. Wakenbake!! THANKS!!


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## bombbudpuffa (May 15, 2007)

> We do not recommend the use of fish meal, blood meal, or bone meal for health reasons. These are waste products from industrial type animal farms and can be full of residues from antibiotics, hormone treatments, or stem from diseased animals.


from Mandalas' FAQ.


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## herbman (May 15, 2007)

nice post


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## BSki8950 (May 15, 2007)

yea im deff going organic for my next grow ... my last 2 grows have been pretty much crushed because of nute burn ...


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## bombbudpuffa (May 15, 2007)

BSki8950 said:
			
		

> yea im deff going organic for my next grow ... my last 2 grows have been pretty much crushed because of nute burn ...


Worm castings and Mycorhizzal fungi for soil additives...nothing tops this combo!


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## Runbyhemp (May 15, 2007)

Yep, nice post Mr. Wakenbake, organic all the way :aok:


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## BSki8950 (May 15, 2007)

this will help me alot on my next grow .. thanks alot Mr. Wakenbake


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## shuggy4105 (May 16, 2007)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> Worm castings and Mycorhizzal fungi for soil additives...nothing tops this combo!


i have the castings but i`ve never heard of mycorhizzal fungi. Where would i pick this up at? is there a brand name?


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## bombbudpuffa (May 16, 2007)

http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/I didn't spell it right.


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## Mr.Wakenbake (May 16, 2007)

We do not recommend the use of fish meal, blood meal, or bone meal for health reasons. These are waste products from industrial type animal farms and can be full of residues from antibiotics, hormone treatments, or stem from diseased animals.



man .. i have alot of respect for mandala, however these meals are not as dangerous as he makes them out to be.. you just need to wash your hands after handling.. 

I mean who the hell wouldn't..blood bone and fish meal are all great organic additives...don't let mike fool ya lol ..


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## bombbudpuffa (May 16, 2007)

I used it in my AK48 grow. That was before reading this though. He's not fooling me...he just made a good point. I don't want to chance it in any case...i'm planning on smoking these babies. I've been following the Mandala instructions with everything. Haven,t had a prob since, very sound advice and tips imo. Peace.


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## Mr.Wakenbake (May 16, 2007)

lol u won't be smoking bone meal or blood meal or any other thing that may be in the meal...

Anyone that believes that crap about organics needs to read some more about how organics work. With chemicals you have to worry.. not organics.


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## bombbudpuffa (May 16, 2007)

Btw, there are very good organic alternatives to blood and bone meal. You could replace blood meal with feather meal-http://www.groworganic.com/item_F940_FeatherMeal50Lb.html?welcome=Twhich is cheaper and releases nitrogen slower than blood meal. Then there is fish bone meal-http://www.groworganic.com/item_F312_FishBoneMeal316050Lb.htmlall the benefits, none of the risk.


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## shuggy4105 (May 17, 2007)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> http://www.fungi.com/mycogrow/I didn't spell it right.


cheers dude. Shuggy.


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## bombbudpuffa (May 17, 2007)

Mr.Wakenbake said:
			
		

> lol u won't be smoking bone meal or blood meal or any other thing that may be in the meal...
> 
> Anyone that believes that crap about organics needs to read some more about how organics work. With chemicals you have to worry.. not organics.


Hey, now...don't get touchy. I've done enough reading on organics to know I don't want to mess with blood meal. It's my choice and i'd like people to know if they have the same worries about blood and bone meal that there are alternatives. Has nothing to do with reading just being careful. I don't want to chance giving MY babies anything harmful...what you do is your business. Peace.


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## shuggy4105 (May 17, 2007)

what`s the problem with bone meal?I`m now worried!


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## bombbudpuffa (May 17, 2007)

There is nothing to support anything is wrong with either blood or bone meal but neither is there any scientific evidence that you can't be harmed by industrial by products. To be safe, i'll never use them again but I won't tell you not to use them though. To each his own.


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## newgreenthumb (May 20, 2007)

Espmoma products are full of blood, bone and fish meal but I have had good results with them as long as I stay the organic path.  Many of the decomposed animal carcasses in nature may have some form of illness but the plant and the soil finds a way to utilize this for growth with minimal problems.  :farm:


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## Mr.Wakenbake (May 21, 2007)

Just remember .. when you buy organic foods at the store. They were grown predominatly with blood, bone, and cottenseed meals.

Most bone meal, blood meal  or any other animal by product is steamed to kill any bad bacteria in it before shipping. I def know the FF peace of mind brand is steamed. 

If you are worrying about blood and bone meal giving your plants a disease its  just not possible. The micro-organisms in the soil take care of any "disease" ...

I know that some people regard breeders personal opinions as golden rules  to follow, but again it's just their OPINIONS.. with NO PROVEN FACTS TO STAND BEHIND THEM.I have corresponded with mike and jasmin on a few topics  and i find that i disagree on many things. But that's the beauty of it.. everyone has their own grow style./


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## bombbudpuffa (May 22, 2007)

I wasn't trying to start any animosity. Sorry if it seemed that way. Theres plenty of info about blood and bone meal besides the mandala faq. Just wanted to let people know that there has been discussion about bad effects of using these products, which haven't been tested either way that I could find,and that there are alternatives, that are cheaper, without these same discussions. I like your thread and agree...organics are the way to go! Let's be cool and not argue over what we're putting in our dirt! I even tried to give you rep but I must spread 1st.


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## Mr.Wakenbake (May 23, 2007)

no bad blood man.. there are millions of ways to grow great chronic.. and trust me i am no pro nor do i know the best way...no worries man


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## nvthis (Mar 19, 2010)

bump


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## nouvellechef (Mar 22, 2011)

Miss NV and BBP, maybe this will get BBP to actually log in. I know he peeks at the forum incognito 

Anyhow. Lets talk about what has been posted here. As far as the meals go. While I dont care either way about the bi product of animal meals, as BBP said there is much much much and better alternative then blood. After switching to a combo of alfalfa and soybean meal, I have seen multiple positive results over the previous mix using blood. With the addition of rice hulls like we spoke about in a thread that got lost, they are silica based and provide aeration. When these hulls break down over time, they increase the uptake of the amendments. I have seen it first hand. The ratio of both soybean and alfalfa is 1tb per gal of medium, cooked for 30 days. Also along with a full line of other ingredients, but the point here is to push the soy/alfalfa combo as I cannot tell you enough positive things I have seen using it.

The other issue is when using blood meal, it creates a toxification with the lime and you possibly lose up to 40% of the nitrogen that you put in. Just money lost, then you need to make up for it in late flower. Sucks

Thats it. Maybe even Mr.Wakenbake will chime in.

Wish I could toss a @Mr.Wakenbake @BBP


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