# Pictureless grow...where's your imagination?



## kailiwela44 (Jul 2, 2008)

I am a unsucessful grower of a female plant.  If you are to look at my introduction thread it gives you a basis of my experience in the past, either failure or male, and part of my current grow.
Currently I have two Citral (Nirvana), #1 & #2, which have just survived germination.  The worst part of my grow seems to be the temperature, High in the low 90F's.  This has been adjusted by adding DIY co2--yeast, sugar, h20 as suggested by this forum.  My grow is in a box 
23" x 14" x 23" which will be converted to a flower box once my girlfriend, child, and I move into our new home (maybe i'll be able to add pictures then--~12/08).  With this grow i will us a 'lst' to keep the plant short and to train all the new growths that will come as i saw in my first grow.  The water i will be using is filtered tap water.  I adjust the ph to be between 6.0 & 7.0.  

#1 is about a few days older than #2.

#1 has just started a second set of leaves with the 2 and 3 fingers growing on the first set of leaves.  Although "she" started of as being stretched and broken, "she" has survived my clumsyness and is starting to take form.  "she" is being grown in a 8inch pot, with part of the stretched stem buried,  with Black gold top soil, a pinch of Osmocote slow release nut (19-6-12), a pinch of dolomite lime, 1/3 perlite added to soil, and perlite filling the bottom until it's above the drainage hole.

#2 has one set of leaves, a thicker stem, half the height of #1, and what appears to be the second set of leaves forming in the middle.  The soil and mediums are the same but i added sphagum moss because i needed to get rid of it.

Hope to see the imaginitive during my grow and harvest.  

Much mahalo,
kailiwela44


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## Melissa (Jul 2, 2008)

*good luck with this grow eace:*


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 2, 2008)

#1 watered 250mL water with 0.3mL molasses mixed +250mL pH adjusted water.  "she" is looking very healthy and strong.  I may have to add a chopstick to hold her up before i can LST.

#2  watered the same as #1.  new growth is still forming.  First set of fan leaves are widening.

Both plants are rotated 90 degrees everyday four hours before lights off.  I'm typically not home when the lights turn on, usually forget to rotate the pot after work, and my work schedule differs two days out of the week.
If i remember to, i'll measure the height of my Citrals and the widths of all sets of fan leaves.

stay irie,
kailiwela44


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## Ilikebigbuds (Jul 2, 2008)

good luck with your grow, I was wondering what  kind of lights you are using?


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 2, 2008)

Ilikebigbuds said:
			
		

> good luck with your grow, I was wondering what  kind of lights you are using?


currently i have three 40w daylight CFL and three 26w cool white cfl.  I was running four 40w but one of the bulbs burned out recently.  When i go into Flowering i will be using four 40w Soft White Cfl and two of the 40w daylight CFL.  
My lights are set up so that i have one 40W about 2inches from both Citrals, and three 26w near the roof of my box.  I know its far away, but with one of the 40w near the plant my temperature reads 90's F.  
As i LST, the two 40w located will be moved near the roof, between the other four bulbs, to get good light on the canopy.  If there are any new growths under the canopy, they will be removed for good air circulation and if the cutting is a good candidate it will be used as a clone.  
Any suggestions for a newbie at cloning?  is the soil cloning guide on this forum a higher % winner or does anybody have an easier way of doing it?  I have rockwool cubes, cloning powder, and a humidity dome currently at my disposal.

one luv,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 2, 2008)

When i first started to grow it was all about saving cash:woohoo: 
then a 2nd reason came which is to always have stash.
:goodposting: 
A third point came up which is the experience to grow.
:watchplant: 
Experiencing each strain i really must know!
:hairpull: 
To reach my goal i must keep it cool.
 
Because when everyone else buys i can call them a fool.
:hitchair: 
As each agonizing day passess to grow some weed.
 
It will be all worth while when my weed feeds my need.
:ccc:


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 2, 2008)

Hey Kaili...Sounds good..do you have a fan blowing on them?..we need to get the temps down below 88..IMO they slow down and dont produce well..how about an ac unit?..the heat is why I dont grow in summer my friend..why do you rotate the containers for?...and heres wishing you nothing but FEMALES my friend..KEEP M GREEN


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 3, 2008)

Cool, someone actually got my short hand version of my name correct.  Thank you.:banana: :48:   
As far as my grow goes, i do have a intake fan which blows air ground level, and another fan which blows air onto the babys as well as the light (typically a few degrees warmer than floor level).  I cant use A/C because, to me, its really a waste of money for me & my family.  I love my plants but my mentality is when the weather gets hot hit the beach (sorry babies).  Me not wanting to use an A/C is why i add some extra C02 (If you can't beat it, work around it).  As far as growth goes, the higher temperature doesn't seem to effect the plants negatively--no heat stress (yet), no heat stretching (stem splinding), and fan leaves are getting wider, staying green, and new sets can be seen forming:watchplant: .  
My lights are on mostly at night and up till about noon 18/6.  My previous attempt was using "See more buds" technique, but between noon and 4pm the sun hits my room and shoots the room temp up a few degrees.:rant:   
Today on my lunch break i was able to check to see what my temp range is during lights off in the afternoon.  It ranges from 83F to 85F.  Oddly enough, if i add a fan to my closet, my temperatures rise...idk why.
By years end i'll be living elsewhere with my chicks (gf & baby) where my girlfriend demands some a/c.  she's cool with the herb (reason why i quit ciggs) and helped me with my ventilation problem (she does HVAC, plumbing, and CAD drafting for a living).  If it wasn't for here, my temps would still be in the upper 90's.  

Much mahalo, pau hana (finish work)
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 3, 2008)

oh yeah, the reaso why i rotate my pot is because the light closes to my plant is vertical.  So, i rotate it to get an even distribution of light.  Same concept that plants grow/"reach" for light.  wow, i never knew what they taught us in 2nd grade science would apply to me today.  Even crazier is that i remember it.  Hmm.  must of been the 2nd hand smoke from my dad.

Shoots,
kailiwela44


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## someguy (Jul 3, 2008)

4u2smoke said:
			
		

> Hey Kaili...Sounds good..do you have a fan blowing on them?..we need to get the temps down below 88..IMO they slow down and dont produce well..how about an ac unit?..the heat is why I dont grow in summer my friend..why do you rotate the containers for?...and heres wishing you nothing but FEMALES my friend..KEEP M GREEN


ha ya, i live on the coast i grew up on. always been mild, even in summer. first summer i grow, record heats! thank god, budda ect., i had an a/c i randomly got from a friend emptyin his storage for moving. didnt use it for 2 years but hung onto it. ended up not having a fan in town for sale by day 2!!!!!!!! what was usually 80 tops outside was 100 for 4 days straight. lucked out be being prepared!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 3, 2008)

Last night when i got home from work, I checked the dimensions of my plant.  
#1 stood at 3" tall and her 2 sets of fan leaves are 3" wide respectively.  I got so mind set on LST yesterday that i decided to give it a shot.  i have her tied about a 1/4" from the soil, and above the first set of leaves.  Early this morning when i checked on #1, "her" 3 set of leaves have taken shape. Aside from the lowest fan leaf, #1 is begining to grow turn upwards.  I will leave her with only one tie until a fourth set of leaves are grown.
#2 is at a whopping 1" tall and just over 3" wide.  "Her"second set of leaves are starting to be independant.  She will be LST after i observe how #1 reacts.
As for my temperatures, the max temperature it reached yesterday was at 93.4F--The thermometer is inches from #2.  I have a sensor near #1 so i can eyeball the temperature without having to go into my closet.
The maximum humity was at 60" +/- 5% according to manufacturer.  And the low was at 44".

have an irie day.
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 6, 2008)

These are my notes for:

July 4, 2008

Temperature
High 96F lights on (35C)
Low lights off 82.9F (28.3C)

Humidity-
High 55%
Low41%

No signs of heat stress
July 5, 2008

Temperature
High 95.4F (31.7C)
Low 85.3F (29.6C)

Humidity
High 49%
Low 40%

No signs of heat stress
*#1 Citral*

Watered 16oz of ~6.5 ph water
After 4 hours runoff removed
5oz
ph ~7.0


Measurements
~4.5" Fan leaves diameter(11cmX11cm)
Bushy top from LST,(ties removed, scratches from twist ties, will purchase pipe cleaner)

*#2 Citral*

Watered 16oz of ~6.5ph
After 4 hours runoff removed
6oz
Unable to produce clean ph sample.  Will assume ph is similar with #1


Dimensions
First pair of leaves 4.5" (12cm) Diameter
2nd set of leaves 4" (10cm) Diameter
3rd set forming
Forgot to measure height

The high acidity from both Citrals run-off, i will adjust the H20 ph as follows:

500mL of 5.0<6.0ph
500mL of 6.0ph with traces of molasses
500mL of 6.0ph
500mL of 6.0ph
My observations for the preceding days are:
1.  Twist ties work for LST, but it damaged the stem and created an eye/heart sore.
2.  On July 4th, temps were higher because of fireworks.
3.  LST is fun to just stare at.  #2 will begin LST after growing 3 sets of fan leaves. 
4. hard to determine how many sets of leaves, from #1's LST, as higher leaves grew more fingers than leaves shaded near the soil.

Aloha,
kailiwela44


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 6, 2008)

hey Kaili..I like to use soft pipe cleaners to tie my Girls Down...also I like to use electrical ground wire 12/2...its green and you can bend hooks at the end and the wire is coated with soft sheating..I learned this from PotBelly here..who I havent seen around for a while..hope he/she is ok..anyway I would like to see some photos...that 90+ temps and no stress?  wow..good job..KEEP M GREEN


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 7, 2008)

4u2smoke said:
			
		

> hey Kaili..I like to use soft pipe cleaners to tie my Girls Down...also I like to use electrical ground wire 12/2...its green and you can bend hooks at the end and the wire is coated with soft sheating..I learned this from PotBelly here..who I havent seen around for a while..hope he/she is ok..anyway I would like to see some photos...that 90+ temps and no stress?  wow..good job..KEEP M GREEN


I went to a local craft shop and bought a couple dozen of them.  I got the extra co2 when the temps reach that height.  It mostly reaches the 90F's when the sun is still out.  night time when i periodically check the temps are in the upper eighties.  
The air that hits the citral feels cooler than room temperature.  My theory is that even though the temps reach a higher temperature, the cool air that blows on the girls, along with co2, alleviates some of the stress. 
If the Citrals becomes males i plan to grow them out to collect pollen for future use.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 7, 2008)

I have started to take pictures starting from July 4, 2008.  Because i am using a work computer, i am not able to upload any of the pictures until i get to my gf computer.  I plan to post all pictures in a gallery type setting with the dates to refer back to.  Then for all those who are faithful, we can turn it into a discussion board(?)--things that worked, what will work better, etc... i really do want to keep this pictureless until the very end..."where's you imagination"


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 7, 2008)

okay  will fallow along....KEEP M GREEN


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 7, 2008)

4u2 i just visited some of your grow room pages.  My next grow i'm gonna grow t44.  I couldnt fine out your total yield for the LST and not LST plant.  What were they?  If you cured them better, do you think the smoke would've been better?  If so, would it be something you would clone or hybrid?


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 8, 2008)

#1 
Watered with 500mL of 5.0<6.0ph water.  Run off was gone by morning.  
Lots of new growth forming.  "She" is starting to get bushy, a canopy is begining to form, and covers about 1/3 of the pot.  added one more pipe cleaner to expose new growth.  The original top is still highest point but other branches are getting larger.

#2
Soil was still moist and pot is on the heavier side.  Eyeball guess she'll be super thirsty tommorrow 7/9/08 @lights on.  
Getting really wide and not much vertical growth.  I don't have my notes on me but i believe 'she' is about 6.25in across with three sets of fan leaves--3rd set showing five fingers.

As an observation.  The temperatures do reach the 90s F, but only for a few hours during lights on.  Typically about two hours in the begining and two hours in the end.  These are during the afternoon times.  Shoot I forgot to mention that light regiment is 20/4 since 7/4/08--after #2 past germination.  For aproximately 12 hours the temperature will ranges from 87F-89F (still not ideal but pretty close).


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 8, 2008)

kailiwela44 said:
			
		

> 4u2 i just visited some of your grow room pages. My next grow i'm gonna grow t44. I couldnt fine out your total yield for the LST and not LST plant. What were they? If you cured them better, do you think the smoke would've been better? If so, would it be something you would clone or hybrid?


 
Thanks Kaili...I think that was put in another thread..but as for the side by side..I yeilded a little more over an oz..each..I did find that LST is great if you are limited on height..ans far as yeild diff...LST= smaller budds..I dont have height restrictions in my shed 8'..but do still like to touch my girls..what Ladie doesnt like to be carest  and tied down onece in a while? :hubba: ..Yes I do think if I slowed down the drying and the cureing it would Have been smooth..but it does have lots of resin..and very sticky the DEADLINE cured real slow and it is smooooooth...and has a good taste..I will keep this one around a while...putN on my IMAGINATION CAP..

Looks like you got lots of weed growN in there..lol...May want to back off the nutes a bit...They look.....well....like nothin..lol..Just kiddN..Keep us posted but most of all KEEP M GREEN


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 8, 2008)

Kaili..sorry..I did try to clone the t44 but am new and couldnt get it  at the time..I am getting better...but I would say yes I would clone or hybrid..thanks again friend


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 9, 2008)

#1 is getting real bushy:hubba: .  "her" canopy has covered half the pot with a couple of the original top hanging over the edges.  She smells real grassy and leaves are dark green .  How many nodes?  idk?  too much bush to tell--lots of new growth forming at exposed areas.  I never noticed on my other grow, but does the stem near the soil shed it's skin?  It could be from the damage received while using twist ties, but #2 shows similar traits--As long as they don't grow into an Audrey II life is good.  lol.  Top of soil is still moist and pot is heavy when lifted.

#2 really wants some H20 (feed me Semore). Before i came to work, she felt really light when lifted, but no droopiness nor heat stress.  #2 will be watered with 6.0 ph water.  The nodes are green, she has three healthy set of leaves, and a fourth set of leaves taking shape--already showing me there are going to be five fingers.

As a random thought...I will be flowering the citrals when August comes.  Before the 12/12 lights come on, i will keep the lights off for approximately 32 hours before turning them back on--apperantly it promotes the flowering stage without confusing the plant.  The lights on will be from 9p.m. to 9a.m. since i will be home during lights on, these are the times where the temperature is at its lowest while remaining stable, and i will also be able to keep her in total darkness during the day as oppose to night--don't ask why it just works this way.

Hmmm...two weeks and still no beans from Nirvana (Top 44, aurora indica)  i'll assume it was because of the holiday this past weekend.  If nothing by Monday, i'll give them a holler--"john" suggested aurora indica and bubbleliciouswhich were the two i was looking at from the strain wizard.  I'll wait till the skills are steady before growing bubblelicious.  

Stay irie,
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Jul 9, 2008)

Good bro


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 9, 2008)

kailiwela44 said:
			
		

> #1 is getting real bushy:hubba: . "her" canopy has covered half the pot with a couple of the original top hanging over the edges. She smells real grassy and leaves are dark green . How many nodes? idk? too much bush to tell--lots of new growth forming at exposed areas. I never noticed on my other grow, but does the stem near the soil shed it's skin? It could be from the damage received while using twist ties, but #2 shows similar traits--As long as they don't grow into an Audrey II life is good. lol. Top of soil is still moist and pot is heavy when lifted.
> 
> #2 really wants some H20 (feed me Semore). Before i came to work, she felt really light when lifted, but no droopiness nor heat stress. #2 will be watered with 6.0 ph water. The nodes are green, she has three healthy set of leaves, and a fourth set of leaves taking shape--already showing me there are going to be five fingers.
> 
> ...


 

Wow did I screw that up...sorry Kaili..


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 9, 2008)

This Laptop...and these Fat fingers..and Im a bit  stoned..my Message is in your quote...ROLMFAO...


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 9, 2008)

No wonder I didnt see anything else..lol..2 weeks huh?  never ordered from them..I always wait a good 6 weeks but then im USA ..I hear their good mayB some here can pop in a smoke a bowl..and then tell us both huh?  Thanks for shareing with us..even if I cant see them..say...what if you need help on your girl?...you will need to post pics then..yes?...Not that I wish anything Bad on you my friend I wish nothing but FEMALES fat with BUddssss..But I am still Subscribed...KEEP M GREEN


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 9, 2008)

4u2smoke said:
			
		

> Wow did I screw that up...sorry Kaili..


I originally wanted to keep the watering regimine strict, but being that #1 is a little older the soil dried up pretty fast.  As far as my ghetto style moisture check it worked on my last grow so until i really mess up i'll keep going.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 9, 2008)

4u2smoke said:
			
		

> No wonder I didnt see anything else..lol..2 weeks huh?  never ordered from them..I always wait a good 6 weeks but then im USA ..I hear their good mayB some here can pop in a smoke a bowl..and then tell us both huh?  Thanks for shareing with us..even if I cant see them..say...what if you need help on your girl?...you will need to post pics then..yes?...Not that I wish anything Bad on you my friend I wish nothing but FEMALES fat with BUddssss..But I am still Subscribed...KEEP M GREEN


the last time i ordered i got them in about 9 days.  I think what kills their shipping method is that people expose how they do their discreet shipping.  
I got tempted for my not-yet-received seeds and sent them an e-mail. I basically stated that i haven't received my order yet and what i should do.  
From my short experience with them...
1.  friendly customer service via e-mail--what goes around comes around.
2.  a bit pricey compared to DR Chronic sells their seeds, but like us growers we try to cut out the middle man.
3.  They sponsor Roll it up dot org--good site but i prefer this one because the experience growers say that their growing methods are the best way; i.e. like how some hydro people crap on us earthly folk.
4.  Other smaller companies sell their seeds.
5.  I hope to reach the state of Nirvana.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 10, 2008)

4u2smoke said:
			
		

> This Laptop...and these Fat fingers..and Im a bit  stoned..my Message is in your quote...ROLMFAO...


Its cool.  One of reasons why i don't use my gf's laptop. As soon as i go to my chick's (not being sexest) house i'll bring my camera and upload some pics.  That reminds me to take more tonight. Plus you should see all the reviewing i do before posting.  lol.  
As far as needing help, my dad seems to state a lot of the things that i've read from other's posts and resource page.  So, he is kinda like my warning light before all hell breaks loose--he's more tuned in to outdoor growing.    I just try not to get him too involved cause he was into ice (what us hawaiians call crystal meth) and his advice is to mainly do high stress training--topping and never heard of LST. Not to mention its a lot easier for me to have more a discussion and hear other's opinions.  whew...am i being a babbling stoner?  probably.

see ya 2morrow,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 14, 2008)

Nirvana beans received.  Next grow will Aurora Indica or Top 44 on 12/12, from sprout to harvest, with my Citrals--experiment.

i've been sick with a stomach flu and forgot to note the temperatures and humidity.  My observations have led me to conclude that temps max out @ 93F, on a very hot day, with the typical range being from 86F to 89F--lights on.
On a side note, if i remember, i'll post my Narrative paper i wrote a few years ago in my college English class.  "*Stoniercropolot Munchieguy"*.  I'd like to share this because it's funny and i lost my process paper on how to roll a doob.

7/11/08
#1

500mL H20 with 1/4 TSP of Molasses
15 min for runoff to be gone waters another 500mL of straight H20

There are light green patches on two of the older set of fan leaves
one leaf is curled at the end
All new growth are green with no yellowing

Five sets of Fan leaves
three 5 finger
one 3 finger
original top 3 finger

Approimately 3" tall (7cm) before LST re-applied; Just under 8" (20cmx20cm) wide
LST re-applied
Original top hanging over edge
New shoot looks to be new cola

Soil added to fill gaps
#2

3.25" tall (8cm); ~9"x9.5" (23cmx24cm) wide
5 sets of leaves
Lowest leaf set one finger
2nd three fingers
one 5 fingers
two 7 fingers

With my new fan in the box the temperatures have dropped to ranges in the mid 80's.  I believe this along with a air purifier cools the temperature down in the box and closet.  The air purifier exhausts cooler air than it intakes.  The strength of the exhaust is comparable to a small fan.  
About a week or two before i turn the lights on to 12/12, i will germinate one Aurora Indica or Top 44 seed and do the grow on a 12/12 light regiment after it's first set of fan leaves grow.  As to the pot size i'll be using i'm not too sure at the moment, but i will research other posts to see what can be used--maybe even a 20oz soda bottle.

Be cool,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 15, 2008)

Nothing too new to report on the plants.  However, I have placed the bulbs i will be using for flowering so i can see how the temperature reacts--use to get close to 100F with the old way of circulating air.  Currently, I have four 40w Soft white (2700K; 2600 lumens) and two 40w Cool white (6500K; 2600lumens).  It comes to about 15,600 lumens over a 25"x14" (about 1.5ft squared) or 25"x14"x23" (just under 2cu.ft).  Thats all the math i am going to do now.  If anyone loves math more than me, would you please fill in other info i may need to know.  
From my trial run today, the temperatures are gonna start reaching the mid 90F again--they don't call them Warm white for nothing.  This is okay for me because i started C02 again.  The temperature use to hit mid 90s in the middle of the night.  So, i'm about five to seven degrees cooler than before on hotter days than before...make sense?  
On thursday, i will cut the light down to 18/6 to simulate oncoming winter and aleviate some temperature problems.  The two hours that will be turned back will be one hour after normal lights on and one hour before lights out (On at 6p.m. off at 12p.m.)

"wanna get high",
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Jul 15, 2008)

Sounds good. Sweet setup from what you stated.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jul 15, 2008)

oh yeah Baby..lets get it on...


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 16, 2008)

KGB30.  Good luck on your moonlight clone.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 16, 2008)

Power went out today just as lights were about to turn off .  So i'm not worried about that:spit: .  What i am worried about is that i will be one hour late to restart the lights.  Hopefully they won't get stressed out on having one 17 hour day followed by 18 hour days. i placed a Top44 seed into rockwool and once she has her first set of leaves, she goes into the box with the citrals.  Since T44 will be mostly on 12/12, the entire box will be put into the 12/12 cycle, regardless if it's earlier than the original date, once the first set of leaves have formed.  However, i will still put the Citrals in total darkness for about 33 hours till lights on again.  Top44 will be grown using regular black gold top soil with extra perlite and in honor of the CFL guru, she will be grown in a 20oz "Mug Rootbeer" bottle.

Max temps 89F (shaded from fan leaves, but still not close to mid 90).  I switched the plant positions (#1 where #2 was, and vice versa).  This actually helped the circulation and lowered the temperature of my box (pictures will do justice once their posted).  

#1 original top has once again become queen of the mountain but with about two other shoots looking like tops as well.

Have a nice day ,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 17, 2008)

KGB30 said:
			
		

> Sounds good. Sweet setup from what you stated.


 
Thanks,  I have three bulbs on top on both sides--The four warm white on the ends with the cool white in the middle.  When i make a new box i'll try to have the bulbs spread to four sides--two on each side (soft white), one in the middle on the front and back (cool white).  The box i have now is an old night stand from some Waikiki hotel my dad got from rubbish (one hotels trash is a growers grow box):hubba: .  It was a pain in the butt:fid:  to cut out the vent holes.  I only had a drill (thank god for the right bit):fid:  and had to drill holes in a circular shape to get the big hole:fid: .  It was about 1/2 inches thick:fid: .  I have a hunch that the thickness of the box keeps the heat higher .  

Oh, seperately, the switch to 18/6 will start today because of the power outtage.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 17, 2008)

7/15
#1 was watered with 1L of h20
#2 was watered with 1L of h20
After 45 minutes, run-offs from both plants removed.

7/16
As i posted earlier there was a power outtage on this day.  When i got home the power had been out for about five hours (timer was behind).  I didn't get to go home right away, but when i did the lights were still off.  This means that there was about nine hours of total darkness .  I decided that instead of risking light schedule stress i would put these "girls" into flower .

#1-25 days old since sprouted

4" tall
canopy covers 1/2 of the pot diameter:hubba:
#2-21 days since sprouted

4.5" tall
12" diameter:hubba:
Foilage:hubba:
1 single finger
1 three finger
1 five finger
1 seven finger
1 nine finger
newest set is going to have at least 7 fingers, but is not fully developed yet

I recorded the temperatures but as i was re-writing my notebook i excluded them because of STM (short term memory):doh: .  From my buzzed memory the highs were 89.1F and ~50% humidity.  The low was ~81F, but i forgot what the humidity was.

As i was measuring the sizes of the Citrals, i realized that left over vertical space, for #2, is limited to about 4" before she hits the lights.  I am able to remove the two Cool white bulbs and place them at about dirt level.  If i need to do this, depending on space, i'll keep the 40watters in there or switch them out for 26watt warm whites.  If i do not need to move the lights and when she does get a few inches away i'll apply LST to keep her from hitting the lights.  According to Nirvana, the Citrals should take about 8 weeks to flower.  According to the "See More Buds..." book, she can grow up to 100% taller--last male was about 50% taller before i showed that male who's the man. j/k.

Top 44 still has not sprouted.  Because i've already put the lights into 12/12, i removed T44 from the grow space untill "she" sprouts.  once she has sprouted she will be placed into her soda bottle and added into the grow box--hopefully she won't stretch too much.

Stay irie,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 18, 2008)

#1 watered 500mL h20 w/ 0.25 tsp of MG bloom:ignore: 

#2 watered 1L h20 w/ 0.25 tsp of MG bloom:ignore: 

After an hour, #2 still had some runoff left in 'her' tray.  Instead of watering #1, i switched the catch trays and the excess h20 from #2 was soaked up by #1.  #2 is starting to widen.  i need to look up situations where horizontal space becomes an issue.  #2 only has about an inch from two sides of the walls.  

The yellowing leaves i found on #1 earlier are still alive.  The yellowing hasn't spread to other leaves, new growths are healthy looking green, no curls (which would happen if it was infested?).

Both have their separate smells, #1 smells like any other type of greenery i have outside, and #2 has an almost skunky smell to it...interesting smithers.

As for my nutes, I will alternate using MG Bloom and Scultz african violets every fifth watering. I will use two waterings for straight H20 then one watering with molasses, then H20, then Nutes.  The regimine should be something like this...
(started) MG...h20...h20...h20w/molasses...h20...schultz...h20...h20...h20w/molasses
...h20...MG...h20...etc.

I still am taking pictures.  My chicks laptop screen is going down so posting pictures will be delayed--as if there are any already.  I'm still trying to decide how to post them when i do;  i.e. edit past posts or refer pictures to dated posts.

be stoned and enjoy your weekend,
kailiwela44


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## Larnek (Jul 18, 2008)

Good to hear its still going good. As for light stress I've asked around everyone and they say in veg the changing of the light cycle shouldn't cause any stress. I moved from 18h to 24h in order to reset light schedule to to nighttime when I go into 12/12 tonight or tomorrow night. Sounds like we'll be harvesting citrals together in 8 weeks!


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## KGB30 (Jul 19, 2008)

kailiwela44 said:
			
		

> KGB30. Good luck on your moonlight clone.


 

She is hot & sexy. She makes a person drewal. lol


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 21, 2008)

7/20
#1 Watered 1L h20
#2 Watered 1L h20

After one hours run-offs from both Citrals removed.

#2 is starting to stretch out.  She grew about 2" tall since lights switched to 12/12.  First set of leaves, single finger, is starting to yellow.

#1 is also stretching upward.  First set of fan leaves yellowing completely and may fall of soon.  These were the same leaved which already had yellow spots.


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## KGB30 (Jul 21, 2008)

Sounds good bro.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 22, 2008)

i am planning for a grow closet consisting of veg area, flower box, and cutting/cloning area.  Please add some input as i have just under six months to plan and construct what i need.  Cost effeciency helps the most along with optimism.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=285730&posted=1#post285730


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 23, 2008)

#1 watered with 1L of H20 w/ 1.25 TSP of Molasses
#2 watered with 1L of H20 w/ 1.25 Tsp of Molasses

Typically i water the Citrals when lights first come on.  This watering i had to do just before lights out.  When i first checked on the Citrals at lights on they had a little bit of weight to them and the perlite on the bottom felt cool--usually means its still moist.  When nearing lights out I checked on the two again and they both had drooped considerably, the pots were obviously lighter, and the perlite was dried out.  There was still run-off left, but i will remove any leftover when lights come on tonight.

I changed the lighting arrangement.  I moved my two 40 watt CW near pot level on opposite corners and switched the bulbs out for  26 watt Warm whites.  I had put a 40 watt Warm white near the plant, but after 30 minutes the tip on one of the fan leaves had burnt to a black crisp.  There seems to be no problems with the 26 watt and there is still good light penetration to lower growth--i still rotate #2 90Degrees daily.

The lower fan leaves on both Citrals are yellowing.  My observation is that there will be space from soil level to the next fan leaves.  This should help my ventilation and the lower fan leaves would stop air flow to the other side of the plant.

#2 has a lot of new growth on the lower portion of the plant.  If i were still vegging i could see 4 potential cuttings.  All are a couple inches, fairly thick stemmage, two or three nodes. Still no sign of sex, the trunk on is healthy green and thick, not too much stretching compared to my previous male.

#1 Looks small compared to #2, but is a lot more bushier.  Lots of under growth--i can see why i would give 'popcorn' size buds.


have a nice day,
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Jul 23, 2008)

1.25 TSP of Molasses  how does this help plants?  I was just wondering because I am always wanting to learn something new.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 23, 2008)

KGB30 said:
			
		

> 1.25 TSP of Molasses  how does this help plants?  I was just wondering because I am always wanting to learn something new.


supposedly it helps give the plants carbohydrates.  There are also other things which are benificial such as Mg...umm...other than NPK.  Mainly its a good source of carbs and sugars, and the carbs produce sugars for energy.  Atkins diet is not MJ's diet.  
Using Mollasses during flowering supposedly helps its flowers bud fatter. It is also recommended that blackstrap molasses is best, but as long as the molasses is unsulphered it can be used.  Mine is unsulphered, but not blackstrap--diet Molasses? lol
As far as the ratio goes, most growers use 1TSP per gallon of water.  I used 1.25 TSP because, so far, there are no such thing as Molasses burns, i was super baked mixing it up, and i was in a rush to finish so i won't get to work too late.  Some people use it every watering i only use it sparingly--thing stinks and is stickier than sticky buds.
There is a thread in the resource section from 3LB (three little birds) about the use of 'magical molasses'.  It's a long read and should take about ten minutes if your up to it.  I skimmed through and still took a while.

peace,
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Jul 24, 2008)

Thanks bro get some sleep.. Good Morning & be safe.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 25, 2008)

#1 is about 7" tall which means "she" almost doubled her height with one week of 12/12.
#2 is about 8" tall and almost doubled her height.  The diameter with the droopy (need to water soon) is about 12"...so if it were to perk up i'm assuming it could be and additional 2"--since one week of 12/12.  
Still no sign of sex
As for my Top44, "she" has come up out of the rockwool cube and is still trying to shed it's shell.  I can see what appears too be it's first set of fan leaves.  It's really amazing comparing the size of the Top44 and Citrals (about one month)  

have a nice weekend and lots of aloha,
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Jul 25, 2008)

Glad they are doing good..


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 28, 2008)

7/26/08
Watered both with 1L of H20.  
After about 30min after watering, i went to check for the amount of run-off and what did i see?  Aphids:holysheep: .  Thankfully they were mainly on #2 instead of both.  So, i ended up taking a trip to Wal-mart at 2am and picked up some Fruit and Vegetable insect killer.  Smells like tattoo ink  and has, so far, rid the plant of any aphids .  I also cleaned the box thoroughly, removed run-offs, cleaned overflow trays, and removed necrotic leaves with brown spots.

7/27/08
LST'd #2.  "she" was getting so tall that she was about to hit the top lights:hubba: .  I bent about 1/3 of her over.  #2 still has not showed any signs of sex.  According to one of Ed Rosenthal's books, the aphid problem could be a reason why #2 hasn't showed any sex yet:hairpull: .
#1 has showed me some hairs on two of her nodes.  To be safe, i also cleaned her with the spray and removed lower necrotic leaves, but those did not have brown spots like #2.

7/28/08
#2's cola is making it's way back to being vertical.  Still no signs of aphids.

Be cool,
kailiwela44


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## Larnek (Jul 28, 2008)

Sucks on the aphids, mine are still going good. Noticing some yellowing of lower fan leaves on all three of mine as well. After the nute problem I'm having with the bagseed not sure if I want to give any nutes until I'm sure they need it tho. No sex determination yet either but maybe by tonight when lights come on, it'll be 6th day I think?


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## KGB30 (Jul 29, 2008)

Sounds good minus the aphids.


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## kailiwela44 (Jul 30, 2008)

7/29
#2 showed me that its a he.  If #2 didn't get attacked by aphids i probably would have let him grow out and fertilize #1 in an effort to get more seeds.  Oh well.
#1 is definately a female.  She is giving a couple more hairs and i'm just waitin to see how many nodes she will bloom hairs. 
I switched out the 2 26w SW for the two 42W CW and re-arranged the bulbs.  I have one pair of 42 SW near pot level, above those in two of the corners are the 42W CW, and the other corners have 2 42W SW.

have a nice day.
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Jul 31, 2008)

I hope you get a fatty cola.lol .. Did ya kill the Aphids?


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 4, 2008)

8/2 watered 1L of H20.

All of the lower fan leaves have turned yellow and were removed by lightly pulling at them.  It exposed all the new growth which is very bushy and does not allow the stem to be visible.  
No pests since spraying.  
She is still giving a couple hairs each day.

have a nice day


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## KGB30 (Aug 4, 2008)

kailiwela44 said:
			
		

> 8/2 watered 1L of H20.
> 
> All of the lower fan leaves have turned yellow and were removed by lightly pulling at them. It exposed all the new growth which is very bushy and does not allow the stem to be visible.
> No pests since spraying.
> ...


 

Glad to hear she is better.. Good luck..


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## 4u2sm0ke (Aug 4, 2008)

hey kaili..just thaught I would stop in and say Hello...things sound good..i read up on sugars and molassus...I read you introduce that in the 6 and 7 week of flower...no tobe used all the time...I have not used it personally but always looking to increase yield..but then again we are all looking for that " Holy Grail "..keep us posted



KEEP M GREEN


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 6, 2008)

8/4/08
watered 1L H20 w/ 3/4tsp Molasses.

I noticed that on the newer shoots the lower leaves are turning yellow.  The first set of branches seem to be affected by this the most and is blocking out light for the higher shoots.  I want to do some trimming, but i'm not sure if i should.  
The biggest new growth had once been the top cola.  It is bushy at it's top, but on set of the lower leaves have turned yellow and was removed easily.  There are no signs of aphids.
The new shoots are creating a bush around the stalk and i'm completely puzzled on what i should do.  I am unable to see if the new shoots have pistles or not.  
IMO, this is a...strong light type of strain???  It would probably do better with an HID.

brb gotta do some work,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 8, 2008)

Watered 1L h20 before lights out.  I won't be able to check on the girl for couple days. 

I removed a couple of the shoots that didn't seem to be growing.  I kept the ones which where sturdy and remove the softer ones.  After doing so, It really opened up the space for air and better light to the shoots i left.
Unfortuanately i'm at about 3 weeks of flowering but i have still not seen any bud growth like Larnek.  I'll wait and see if removing some of the growth will help the ones i left.

Have a nice weekend,
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Aug 8, 2008)

Good luck on the bud growth... Have a nice weekend buddie.


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## Larnek (Aug 8, 2008)

You don't want to be removing those leaves on your own. The plant will use the sugars created in all the leaves for whatever it needs. Even the yellowing ones are fine, when the plant is finished with them they will absciss themselves. And removing them prematurely causes the plant to have to heal the stem at that wound, further reducing the food it can use for bud production. Mine are doing the same thing. Bottoms yellow out and I just let them drop off when naturally ready. ANd yeah, I think its the HID that gives me the bud production, but you can see how non-bushy mine are tho. Definitely want to veg with just the CFLs and fluoros next time to make a bush.


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 12, 2008)

Watered 1L H20 w/ half tsp of MG Bloom.
I think the yellowing of the leaves were attributed to low ph of the water i was using--around 6.0.  Since the previous watering, the yellowing of leaves have slowed down just a bit--about 6.5ph...it's still yellowing, but not as fast.  
IDK if it makes a difference but i change the fan cycle in my box.  When the lights are on the fan will run for an hour, then shut off for half-an-hour, and the cycle repeats.  When the lights are off.  fan turns of for half-an-hour, then shuts off for one and a half hours, then the cycle repeats.  The temperature, during lights on and fan off, will rise a few degrees before the fan turns back on.  The reason why i am trying this out is to give her a break from all the turbulance to focus on flowering (stoney idea huh?)

gtg,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 13, 2008)

okay. i tried uploading my pictures, but each one is too large to upload.  Does anyone know how i should do this?


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 13, 2008)

okay. i tried uploading my pictures, but each one is too large to upload.  i don't want to download the program promoted on the link so i apologize, but we'll have to wait.  

peace,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 13, 2008)

ah ha success!!!  Hope you can read adobe.  it's the only way i could get it to fit. 

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## kailiwela44 (Aug 13, 2008)

i didn't arrange the pictures in chronological order.  Basically this is the entire grow 

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## kailiwela44 (Aug 13, 2008)

the last of them.  The second to the last picture is the Nirvana-shop Top44 as of 8/7/08--it's bigger now so i'll take a new pic.  and the last picture is Citral #1 as of 8/9/08.  As far as all the previous pictures go...#1 is the LST and #2 (male) is the one which was left to grow naturally.  Thank you to 4u2smoke, kgb30, and larnek for input and knowing where their imagination is.  Any questions?  

Aloha,
kailiwela44 

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## HippyInEngland (Aug 13, 2008)

Open your pictures using paint, re size them, im not going to download anything from this site onto my comp.


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 14, 2008)

i'll get to it this weekend hopefully.

aloha,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 15, 2008)

...


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 15, 2008)

:d


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 15, 2008)

:hubba: This is #1 flowering as of 8/9/08.  Hope you enjoy


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 15, 2008)

oh yeah...1L H20


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## SirSmoke-a-Lot (Aug 15, 2008)

very nice!


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## Larnek (Aug 15, 2008)

What a difference growing with CFLs does. So much more bushy then my leggy girls, but can definitely see why I paid for the HPS with the bud production. Hope yours picks up some!


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 18, 2008)

8/14 watered 1L h20.  
Just about all the fan leaves covering the new growth has yellowed and been removed.  Majority of the, main cola, fan leaves appear to be picking up a thin layer of frost, the nodes are getting more hairs, and has what appears to be shoot leaves forming.  
The largest newest growth, once the old main cola, has appeared to be gaining lots of hairs, bushing, and budding???  since i havent' seen a female plant grown i'm not sure if it is budding or not, but it appears that way.  
Each of the new shoot's leaves appeared to be droopy.  Once they received hours of light their fan leaves are starting to pop open--dark green with burnt tips.
Still no aphids.

have a nice week,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 25, 2008)

#1 had started her "explosion of growth", as described in SMB..., on her main cola and lower branches.  The second ranked cola has appeared to be healthier than the main cola.  The main colas has her fan leaves curled under--imo due to the lack of proper ehaust at the celing.  
I also observed that the circulation fan has contributed to the higher temps overall inside the box.  I switched the time for the circulation fan to be running for 30min and off for 30min during lights on.  Lights of regimine has stayed the same.  The effect this had on the temperature is quite reasonable to continue to use.  When the fan turns on, the temp will rise a few degrees, then turn off, lower a few degrees, and repeat.  
I'll take a few pictures on this Thursday as it is about the fifth week of 12/12.
I believe that the higher temps have slowed its flowering growth, but the added co2 may help her potential yield.  Fingers crossed of course.

have a nice day,
kailiwela44


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## KGB30 (Aug 25, 2008)

Awesome grow buddy...Nice & dark green


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 31, 2008)

pictures 1,2,3 taken from 8/20.  pic 4, 5 from 8/25. pic 6 from 8/28


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 31, 2008)

pic 1, 2, 3, 4 are from 8/28. pic 5, 6, 7 are from 8/29.

This past thursday 8/28 made five weeks of flowering.  I attribute her late bloom to the bugs i had to get rid of.  Since taking on the critters, there have been fewer spotting on the leaves, more growth, and the blooming of pistils.  
The main cola is full of leaves at each node with pistils forming also.  

hope you enjoy,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Aug 31, 2008)

I was also able to control the temps by regulating the circulating fan.  instead of the fan being on throughout lights on the intervals go as on 30min, of 30, on, off etc...  This allows the temp at soil level to range from 84F to 88 (88, 89F usually when needs to water).  Her watering has went from every 3 days to every 2 days of 1L of water.  
I have discontinued the use of Molasses because IMO this is why the bugs came to start.  Reasons why are because:  Only find bugs in soil.  No bug problem before Molasses or after stop of use, stinks like a mo fo.  
I forgot to mention that the smaller plant is my Top44 which is rootbound and 12/12 from seeds.  I won't transplant, just leave it as such.  Earlier just before lights out i think i may have seen a pair of pistils on her higher node.  Does anyone remember when i planted her?  Gonna try feed some nutes come second week of September.

much aloha,
kailiwela44


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## DomsChron (Aug 31, 2008)

looks like my last bagseed man you should have a pretty stoned harvest :banana: :bong1: :bongin:

GREEN MOOOOJOOOO


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## kailiwela44 (Sep 10, 2008)

picture 1 and 2 are from 9/5/08.  Pic 3 is the Top44 pinched at the nodes, in a 4"pot, and 12/12 from seed, also taken 9/5/08. pic 4 is the second cola, pic five and six are of other shoots.  Pic seven is of the top44 showing me pistils--i attribute her deformed look to pinching.
Some of the pistils are turning orange.  I plan to harvest the main cola and the second cola.  The others will be left to reveg.  I plan to use molasses one last time at watering, which is tomorrow, and straight water the rest of the way.  

peace,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Sep 23, 2008)

update.  It's been a while.  These pictures are from earlier this morning. Most of the larger fan leaves have fallen off, I flushed her last week sunday.  She has filled her cola a lot since the flush, and hopefully harvest will be soon.  Two days ago the trichomes were clear.  I hope they are cloudy when i check at lights on so i can harvest.  

kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Sep 23, 2008)

This is the Top44 i've been doing 12/12 from seed.  She sprouted august 9.  The first pic is from 8/18 two days after supercropping.  The second picture is her trim job.  And the last is from earlier this morning.  Her tops are starting to become individuals instead of a conopy.

kailiwela44


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## 4u2sm0ke (Sep 23, 2008)

looks good kali...you plan to harvest when trichs turn cloudy?  no amber?  and what ever happen to our emagination?...lol..pictureless grow..lol..thanks for shareing with us


take  care and be safe


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## kailiwela44 (Sep 24, 2008)

lol.  it was suppose to be enitirely pictureless, but as things came up i have some resources i used to get something up here.  I'll be chopping her down when the tri's are cloudy.  I really don't like being lazy.  I may even leave a couple of the lower buds to overripen and hermie to collect pollen.  I plan to use the pollen on the Top44 as an experiment--i've read that this is also a way to get feminized seeds.  the process involves not harvest bud spots so they end up naturally creating pollen to self pollinate themselve.  I think this is how Soma does it. oh, time for lunch and pipe scraping.

kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Sep 25, 2008)

I've done some reading and need some clarification on a few things regarding trichomes. 

On the lower branches, i have the normal looking trichomes which some are becoming milky. Along with those normal looking trichomes are non-glandular trichomes--without the head. 

In the middle of the main cola are a small amounts of normal looking trichomes with mostly non-glandular.

The top of the cola only has non-non-glandualr tri.

Questions i have:

1. Since the lower branches have some milky trichomes and non-glandualr trichomes, do the non-glandular trichomes develop the bulb over time and catch up? or does it remain a non-glandular/bulbless trichome?

2. If the lower parts of the plant matures first, am i able to harvest from the bottom up? i only read of people doing the opposite top to bottom.

3. How often do i need to check the trichome development? if strain dependant is there a given range for indicas, indica/sativa, sativa strains? i've read that the harvest window varies so i assume checking trichome should vary.


Another thing i read about was when do you consider the start of flowering period. Some say when 12/12 is initiated and others say when flowers show. So, in regards to my Citral, if it is according to 12/12 she is over 10 weeks into flowering period plus another week for the pest problem i encountered. if it is in regards to showing flowers, she is almost eight weeks--if i remember correctly.


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## kailiwela44 (Sep 26, 2008)

I watered her for the last time last night and removed the run-off after about a half-hour. I removed the run-off because the past two weeks, she has had her moments of taking an extra day to dry the soil. Hopefully, she'll dry out her soil by either tomorrow so i can chop her down. If not then either way she will come down Sunday night at the latest. Note to self: take before and after pictures. The trichomes have become cloudy so i guestimated to give her the extra days to develop all around (actually i was too lazy to do anything but water)

have a nice weekend,
kailiwela44


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## kailiwela44 (Oct 1, 2008)

after all this waiting, she's not the best  but damn it feels good to finally harvest!


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