# Grow worth saving or how bad is it?



## nextgenweed (Oct 22, 2019)

Hello everyone, new grower here...

My main questions/concern is the size of my plants at this stage that they seem too small, and I am thinking maybe because of mistakes made they're not going to get much bigger if they're worth saving, because some people in an online chat on discord said it might be best to trash them, some others saying they're worth saving so I'm not sure and just need some experienced advice there on that please.

But basically they are saying because I didn't start adding nutrients from week 1 (I only started to add a nutrient at week 3 and even then its only been about 2 tablespoons of unsulphured molasses into 1 gal of water) that they aren't in great shape now and won't be later this far into the grow.

I had planned to focus on adding nutrient solutions mixed with the water during the flowering stage while having this soil that is supposed to have all the nutrients needed for the veg stage with only water being said/required to be added so i thought I was safe, I didn't want to add extra anything and risk nutrient burns from what was already in the soil.

Let me give you a general overview of the grow

I have a grow diary up with pictures for each week here to show progress with some general information
https://growdiaries.com/diaries/422...dae-grow-journal-by-infinitiverse-growdiaries

I'm now 5 weeks into the grow growing indoors with a 4 x 4 tent.
I started off with 12 plants ( 4 strains x 4 plants each)
Banana Mint, Frozen Candy, Kool Whipped, & Ice Cream Sundae strains.
Setup:
4 x 4 Tent
Grow lights (19w LED for seedlings)
Grow light 1200W VIPARSPECTRA LED (540w true power draw)
Humidifier kept on low to keep humidity around 50-55%
1 x air intake
1 x exhaust fan with hose
1 x large fan (heavy duty but small sized) inside pointed at the LED to move heat best (it also makes just enough wind to lightly wind stress the plants but not move them back and forth too much)
1 x small fan low powered aimed at the plants
Tent stays sealed with temps 72 F at night and 81F during the day now avg
Light schedule 18/6
Not using CO2

Grow Log:
Planted them on the 16th of Sept.

1st week 09-16-19 - 09-23-19: - 2 inches
I had finished germination with them the last 48 hours before and the roots were 1/4 an inch long so
they were placed into cut in half 1 liter water bottles with Miracle-Gro Performance Organics all purpose in ground soil under a 19 watt LED full spectrum grow light 24 inches from the soil with 24 hr light schedule.

2 days after that I raised the light to 28 inches and kept the 24 hr light schedule.
That week I watered almost every day with every other day not watering touching soil 1 inch in to test if it was dry or not for needing water everyday with humidity readings showing staying about 51% , 70 F at night 77 F during the day.

After first week they seemed to be growing okay except the stems seem a bit weak on some especially.

2nd week 09-23-19 - 09-30-19: - 3 inches

Replaced the 19 watt LED full spectrum grow light with a full spectrum VIPARSPECTRA 1200W LED light (540W true power draw) and played with the light height that week settling at 51 inches from the leafs to the light.
Added a larger and stronger fan to point at the lights to help move the heat and to increase airflow enough to help stress the plants a lil to try and get them to grow stronger stems.


Into the 3rd week: 09-30-19 - 10-07-19: 3 and half inches

Transplanted them from the half a litter bottles that had Miracle-Gro Performance Organics soil into 1 gallon containers with Total Harvest Control Organic soil.
This resulted in all of them wilting quite a bit some more than others.
Added 2 tablespoons of unsulphured molasses into 1 gal of water and started feeding them this every other watering now.
Also the leaf colors at the top of the plants is a much lighter shade of green which started a little even before the transplant but is happening more now and can't seem to get the plants to all lift up looking healthy like they once were over a week ago now but with transplant a week of stall/shock can be expected from what I've read and heard.

4th week 10-07-19 - 10-14-19: 4 inches

1 plant especially has been very dwarfed in size compared to the rest at 2 and a half inches in height, the one I featured in the last picture, The bottom leafs turned brown and died (I removed them after taking that picture).
Was hoping to see more growth if not in height than with the leafs but not seeing much improvement.
3 of out of the 12 plants seemed especially sick / wilted, from the recent transplant last week I thought the 1200 watt LED light @ 51 inches from leafs might be too much for them and stressing them further so they were set aside and put under 19 watt LED veg lights 18 inches from the leafs to monitor for a few days with a small fan on low.

5th week 10-14-19 to 10-21-19: 4 inches

Plant growth seems stalled still and the top leafs of the plants most have a lighter shade of green now.

Did I mess up by not adding nutrients since week 1?

If so, is it too late to start adding now and expect the yield to be more or less about the same if I had started since week 1?

Is it worth finishing the grow or will they suffer ill health effects later regardless from lack of nutrients during the veg stage?

If anyone needs more detail pictures or need to know anything more that I could tell you about the grow I'm doing please let me know.

Thank you again for your input everyone is much appreciated!


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## hollowpoint (Oct 23, 2019)

Hi nextgenweed   Welcome to MP...Nice looking grow journal you made there....The Master growers here will give you their  opinions soon....In the mean time look around and enjoy the forum.


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## oldfogey8 (Oct 23, 2019)

I wouldn’t trash them. I assume you have drainage holes on your pots. I give my plants nutes every other watering. I water every 36 to 48 hours. I see in one pic wk5 where it looks like you watered about a 2” circle around the plants stem. I drench the soil and look to get some run off out of the holes on the bottom. Cannabis likes a wet/dry cycle. I don’t know about your soil but if you are going to feed your plants, start out at about a quarter strength then work up from there. I am no master grower but have had pretty good luck in the 7 years I have been growing. The plants are pretty resilient and yours should bounce back. Water and food...


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## Lesso (Oct 23, 2019)

Ok. I uploaded your picture from your link and then color corrected it.
I personally wouldnt trash it. They are starving. You can see that as a comparison yo those healthy clones in the foreground.  Also why is your light 5 feet and 4 feet away? They require more energy than that. You can tell by how long that stem is. Bring the light down, and feed them.
As a comparison i put a 5 week pic from my 3 plant  grow. I used proper feeding and 24 hrs of light at a proper distance. It sounds like you have a good setup. Just tweek and learn it


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## Lesso (Oct 23, 2019)

I dont know why all the pics doubled...you get the point


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 23, 2019)

If they are not dead or dying, do not trash them.  This is one of the reasons that I prefer photoperiod plants to autos--you have time to "fix" mistakes.    

First, very few experienced growers will add food at 1 week).  At that age, they still have stored food and adding food could kill them.  You did right by not feeding too early.  Most people start food around 2-3 weeks.  I am not familiar with the soil you are using, but it obviously is not doing its job.  Also, molasses is not plant food and does nothing at all to feed the plants.  In organic grows, molasses feeds the microbes in the soil, the microbes feed the plant.  I don't know if you did something that may have killed the microbes that are supposed to be in your soil (like watering with chlorinated water) or if the soil is just not up to par.  But, I agree with Lesso, your plants are starving....and looking for more light...

According to manufacturer's directions, the 1200 Viparspectra is supposed to be kept 32" away from the plants while they are vegging.  You have your light at 51".  This is most likely also affecting their growth adversely.  Get the light down where it belongs.  When they start flowering, you will move the light down further (24").  And you may need more light.

A couple of other observations:  Do not put plants in clear containers, like plastic water bottles.  Roots do not like light.  This can cause algae to grow on the roots.  This is my own humble opinion, but stay away from MG products.  The company is an evil company that is in bed with Monsanto and Scott's--they put money before people (stepping down off soap box now).  Twelve plants are way too many for a 4 x 4 tent.  If these had grown like they should have, you would be way overcrowded.  More plants does not mean more bud.  Overcrowded plants will actually produce less.  Just as a for instance, I am hoping to be able to get 6 plants into a 5 x 5 space without overcrowding them.  I may need to go to a 4 x 8 tent though.  Have you checked your water to see what is in it?  Do you let the chlorine evaporate out of it before you water your plants?  Chlorine and chloramine can adversely affect plants.

Lastly, I'm not sure I would be taking the advise of the people in the chat group you referenced.


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## oldfogey8 (Oct 23, 2019)

Your soil claims ‘water only start to finish’. If it has what the ingredients list says it has in it, something is really wrong. As THG said, maybe the microbes were killed off. Chlorine in city/town water will kill them but can evaporate in a few days if allowed to sit out in an open container. Chloramine is worse as it is supposed to remain in the water a lot longer. I bought some water treatment on Amazon that is intended for fish tanks that neutralizes both chlorine and chloramine. I think it was $6 with free shipping and looks like it will treat my water for a long time(5 ml for 30 gallons, comes in a liter bottle so that is 200 30 gallon tanks). Quick fix might be to go buy some bottled water until you get your home water sorted out(and hope your microbes are not all dead). And give them a good soaking then let the soil get dry down to about a knuckle deep. Repeat. If they don’t respond to bottled water, you might need to buy some compost tea at a hydro store to revive the soil. The problem with a product that claims water only is that it may not be intended for cannabis.


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## stinkyattic (Oct 23, 2019)

"A product that claims water only may not be intended for cannabis": this is 100% true! Long-lived houseplants have very different nutritional needs than a short-lived annual being forced indoors, and those potting mixes take away your ability as a grower to control their feed rate.

Also Lesso and HempGoddess have given you some great advice. 

Aaaandddd... Lower your lights!!!

If you have serious tap water chloramine fears you can make a pretty simple DIY water pretreatment setup using activated charcoal and a trickle system with a gallon milk jug balanced over a 5 gallon pail, and a tiny aquarium pump. See pics. Here I'm using it on my desk at work to do a proof of concept test on stripping azo dye residue (organic molecule binding a metal atom, typically chromium) from metal plating rinse waters. Chloramine is also removeable with activated charcoal. This is 2L dirty water with a 1L charcoal chamber. Scale up as needed so you can drip your tap water overnight and then use it to make ferts the next day. Tiny little water treatment facility for like $20, including the pump!

But you have other fundamental building blocks to address like your lighting and you should approach this like, improvements to any single part of the system won't help until you improve them all. You've got good building blocks in the advice above: )


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## Ganjagrandaddy (Oct 24, 2019)

oldfogey8 said:


> Your soil claims ‘water only start to finish’. If it has what the ingredients list says it has in it, something is really wrong. As THG said, maybe the microbes were killed off. Chlorine in city/town water will kill them but can evaporate in a few days if allowed to sit out in an open container. Chloramine is worse as it is supposed to remain in the water a lot longer. I bought some water treatment on Amazon that is intended for fish tanks that neutralizes both chlorine and chloramine. I think it was $6 with free shipping and looks like it will treat my water for a long time(5 ml for 30 gallons, comes in a liter bottle so that is 200 30 gallon tanks). Quick fix might be to go buy some bottled water until you get your home water sorted out(and hope your microbes are not all dead). And give them a good soaking then let the soil get dry down to about a knuckle deep. Repeat. If they don’t respond to bottled water, you might need to buy some compost tea at a hydro store to revive the soil. The problem with a product that claims water only is that it may not be intended for cannabis.


mate , I am doing as you do with the aquarium tap safe BUT , it is a huge risk too. The chemicals are for fish and may contain formaldehyde and other bennies killing chemicals too. I have been using tepsafe in coco and rdwc but now going to a comparison LOS v coco so have scoured for a better alternative and guess what ??? it costs pennies.  If you use a readily available vitamin C tablet and drop it into your res , the chlorine will be magnetised to the vit c and drop to the bottom of your tank/container. it also deals with the chloramine by using it up alongside the chlorine into a harmless waste gas. If your agitating your res with rdwc ect then there are also products called revitalise by ecothrive. it does same thing but in volumes of moving water. Save The Bennies.......lol If you look for a product called charge , it will restock your living bennies to get things going again. this is another ecothrive product and no I am not a rep or affiliated in any way but know how hard getting it right with organic can be.


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## Ganjagrandaddy (Oct 24, 2019)

On  quick note , Living organic soils/supersoils only need water to provide nutes to the rootzone. The living bacteria do all the work and you only have to feed them a little aerated compost tea with molasses occasionally to keep them alive. decent water with no chlorine/chloramine is the only requirement EVER... reused for as long as you keep feeding the herd and with only a stem to chop at harvest , leaving the roots where they are for the herd to use up. You can then recharge with a top dress and plant the next girl straight into the pot. fully organic and self sufficient and not a nutrient bottle in sight


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## oldfogey8 (Oct 24, 2019)

Ganjagrandaddy said:


> mate , I am doing as you do with the aquarium tap safe BUT , it is a huge risk too. The chemicals are for fish and may contain formaldehyde and other bennies killing chemicals too. I have been using tepsafe in coco and rdwc but now going to a comparison LOS v coco so have scoured for a better alternative and guess what ??? it costs pennies.  If you use a readily available vitamin C tablet and drop it into your res , the chlorine will be magnetised to the vit c and drop to the bottom of your tank/container. it also deals with the chloramine by using it up alongside the chlorine into a harmless waste gas. If your agitating your res with rdwc ect then there are also products called revitalise by ecothrive. it does same thing but in volumes of moving water. Save The Bennies.......lol If you look for a product called charge , it will restock your living bennies to get things going again. this is another ecothrive product and no I am not a rep or affiliated in any way but know how hard getting it right with organic can be.


Good info. I have not tried the dechlorination stuff I bought yet. It is part of my longer term scheme to make compost tea which I may implement this grow but may not. At this time I let my water sit out for a few days and the plants seem to be doing well (so by extension, my micro herd must be doing ok at the least). I do like the idea of using vitamin c though provided it doesn’t adversely affect pH. Thanks again.


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## stinkyattic (Oct 24, 2019)

Building supersoils is an art and a beautiful thing when mastered it's the difference between stuff like miracle-gro, and having a living organism which isn't just your plant... and the latter does not come out of a bag. I'm always impressed when folks pull it off. It's like a terrarium lol


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## Ganjagrandaddy (Oct 25, 2019)

stinkyattic said:


> Building supersoils is an art and a beautiful thing when mastered it's the difference between stuff like miracle-gro, and having a living organism which isn't just your plant... and the latter does not come out of a bag. I'm always impressed when folks pull it off. It's like a terrarium lol


thankfully it can come from a bag now with many LOS supplies being offered now. I live in the uk and trying to build using some of the ingredients would be so difficult to obtain. My ecothrive is a los that is 100% organic , no nutes needed but bennie teas as you go along. I know there is also a sub cool supersonic now too. seems an emerging product market is born now. great for us that want to go with the no till grows for a comparison without killing our plants trying to get it right.lol


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