# Pros&Cons of Seeds vs. Clones



## afghani77 (Mar 24, 2009)

Hi guys!

I am setting up a small grow and would like to
do a short cycle SOG method. Always grew from seed
before, but thinking of doing clones this time.
A bit worried though, because I tried rooting
my own cuttings before and very few of them 
rooted.
Would like to hear what other growers think
is better way to go. Also, if anyone dealt with good seedbank
locally in Canada i would very much like to hear about it.
Thanks!


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## PaPaTiLt (Mar 24, 2009)

How about a Florida boy lol, definitely use clones, seed plants need bigger pots because  it has a ton of roots, and seed plants will have males and untangling that mess will be a problem.
I get about 35-40 grams per clone flowered at 1 foot in 8 inch pots in a sog

The most solid seed bank I ever did business with is at Planet skunk.com. 
the only thing I dont like is that fact I cant get nirvana seeds from them anymore, I heard Nirvana will not sell to the USA any more, Ill have to check that myself


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## Codybear (Mar 24, 2009)

so will a clone give up more bud than an F1?  According to jorge C. , the hybrid from seed will produce more.


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## PaPaTiLt (Mar 24, 2009)

yes a hybrid from seed will produce more but clones can be planted close to each other and you can have twice as many plants in the same aread, the idea is to maximize yield in a small space. I get a much bigger yield from 24 clones than I do from a single plant which will take up 3x3 area. So its a single 5' tall and 3'wide beast or 24 36" clones, which do think will produce more


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## blancolighter (Mar 24, 2009)

Clones are gonna be just as good as their seed counterparts unless you carelessly select your mother, and/or are past the 11th generation of clones, in these cases, clones will begin to lose their vigor. 

Seeds give ya males for breeding options, as well as a variety of mothers to pick for the best cloning and breeding options. Cloning, clones you take will be ready to flower as soon as they root, so you can manage size better if ya need em real small, like said before (that is, once the mother plant hits it's 6 week maturity point, any clone you take off the mother plant will be the same age as mom)

Theres reasons to use both clones and seeds, one isn't inherantly better than the other, they both serve good and different purposes.

If ya want a bunch of plants though without always stating from seed and waiting for the plants to mature though, keep a mother plant and take clones.


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## NewbieG (Mar 24, 2009)

Clones kill seed.  There is no comparison.


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## Hick (Mar 24, 2009)

PaPaTiLt said:
			
		

> yes a hybrid from seed will produce more but clones can be planted close to each other and you can have twice as many plants in the same aread, the idea is to maximize yield in a small space. I get a much bigger yield from 24 clones than I do from a single plant which will take up 3x3 area. So its a single 5' tall and 3'wide beast or 24 36" clones, which do think will produce more


..Apples and oranges???
  a clone will produce just as much as it's donor/mother, if given sufficient veg time, to get to size. ..clones are "identical genetic replicas" of the donor, why would they not produce identical?..  Clones from a female will _always_ be female. No guessing or waiting. Root veg and flower.. in small spaces with size restriction, clones are superior.. IMHO. You can flower at any size, as long as they are rooted.
  Another factor to consider is plant count. "24-36in. clones" are going to net you a more serious charge, than 1-5' plant. (Heaven forbid, you are ever caught.)  


> seed plants need bigger pots because  it has a ton of roots


..because they are vegged longer?..IMO



> seed plants will have males and untangling that mess will be a problem


.. if they are in separate pots, as they "should" be,,.. what mess to untangle?.. unless you're talking hydro.


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## blancolighter (Mar 24, 2009)

Apples and oranges indeed.



			
				NewbieG said:
			
		

> Clones kill seed. There is no comparison.


 
Bad statement, there's no clones without a seed, as well as genetic enrichment, and so on and so forth... 

If you mean for this guys situation, clones may be better, than yea...

Clones and seeds have different roles in growing, and both are equally important in growing MJ.


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## PaPaTiLt (Mar 24, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> ..Apples and oranges???
> a clone will produce just as much as it's donor/mother, if given sufficient veg time, to get to size. ..clones are "identical genetic replicas" of the donor, why would they not produce identical?..  Clones from a female will _always_ be female. No guessing or waiting. Root veg and flower.. in small spaces with size restriction, clones are superior.. IMHO. You can flower at any size, as long as they are rooted.
> Another factor to consider is plant count. "24-36in. clones" are going to net you a more serious charge, than 1-5' plant. (Heaven forbid, you are ever caught.)
> ..because they are vegged longer?..IMO
> ...


we are talking about a sog grow with a screen here, chill out and read the thread properly. I can assume we all grow weed and I would assume we all know if you veg anything long enough...........bla bla bla
it was a simple Q and A, and you jump in trying to change the topic, easy does it there killer


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## Moto-Man (Mar 24, 2009)

afghani77 said:
			
		

> Hi guys!
> 
> I am setting up a small grow and would like to
> do a short cycle SOG method. Always grew from seed
> ...



Hey A77, not sure why I clicked "Thanks" - prolly cuz I'm high  Anyways, bcseedking.com was just great in price, communication and discretion.

Good luck!


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## curiouscat420 (Mar 24, 2009)

PaPaTiLt said:
			
		

> we are talking about a sog grow with a screen here, chill out and read the thread properly. I can assume we all grow weed and I would assume we all know if you veg anything long enough...........bla bla bla
> it was a simple Q and A, and you jump in trying to change the topic, easy does it there killer




uhm, Hick was just pointing out that these "facts" that everyone is stating about clones are silly... Clones are the same as the mother, if they are not, then they are not a clone... check it out on dictionary.com

mothers come from seeds, or from clones... basically, the difference has nothing to do with anything at all imo... a clone is simply ONE branch of a seeded mother plant, which is why you can place more in one area...


maybe Hick and i are the only ones that get what a clone actually is...  


so, dont be rude after only 4 posts... you havent earned it.


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## Friend-of-a-friend (Mar 24, 2009)

Your cuttings you took earlier may not have rooted due to either not humid enuff (I always keep mine in humidity dome), or your medium temp may have been too low. Just like a bean likes heat to pop, so a clone likes warmth to root quicker. If you do decide to go from clones, hopefully this might help ya. Clones also like weak light until well rooted. I use a small flouro tube for mine.


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## NewbieG (Mar 24, 2009)

blancolighter said:
			
		

> Apples and oranges indeed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



lol obviously seeds have their place in the growing universe, but that wasn't the questions asked or the question answered... he asked if he should grow from seed or clone, thats a no brainer, if he has the choice, clone. Read the question so you know what the answer is to next time...


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## blancolighter (Mar 24, 2009)

PapaTilt, and NewbieG, are you and papatilt the "stay on topic police" or somethin?? I was addressing the not so correct info presented after the main post, or am I only allowed to answer the first posting? 

Also, seed or clone, not a no brainer,  AUTOFLOWERING plants are something to consider here. They grow from seed and finish in a relatively short time, stay a managable size, and you don't have to go to the trouble of keeping a mother plant around, so thats another reasonable option to look into. In fact, if this person doesn't have the room for a mother, it would be a great route to go.

How about next time instead of dissing on how I didn't post addressing the original question, you actually put forward some good information on the topic instead. Sure I may have been off track a bit, but I gave some actual info regarding clones, that shoot, maybe someone gained from. What did you contribute  besides the comment "Clones Kill Seed. No Comparison", when in fact, I would say autoflowering seeds would be a great alternative to clones in his situation, especially when he said he had trouble getting clones to root before, but apparently has had success with seeds.


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## Hick (Mar 25, 2009)

PaPaTiLt said:
			
		

> we are talking about a sog grow with a screen here, chill out and read the thread properly. I can assume we all grow weed and I would assume we all know if you veg anything long enough...........bla bla bla
> it was a simple Q and A, and you jump in trying to change the topic, easy does it there killer


hmmm.. at risk of being accused of "splittiing hairs".. a _sog_ does not employ a "screen" ..  that would be termed _sCrog_ I think....and I think you "assume" too much. 
We have growers from every stage of learning here, Some on their initial grow. Some have never cracked a seed before in their life. Others were growing crops while you were learning to crawl..
  I simply 'expanded' on your post, where I felt it could be mis-interpreted..."I" felt that 'some' of the information was slightly mis-leading, and could stand verification. As did others.... I never attacked you or your post, please show me the same respect...
.. thanks....

And, I think I'll go "off topic" a bit further here.. "WHAT" is becoming of our forum??.. Why suddenly do I feel that I'm seeng more and more rudeness, insults, and attacks lately??...:confused2:


> this forum doesn't need the crap you're bringing in, how about you just get lost......brainless comment ......


  Come on folks. ....We are better than that.  
(not meant to be directed at "you" solely blanco, your post was convinient for referrence)


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## blancolighter (Mar 25, 2009)

Eh, I am putting myself through a dry spell and am at the irritation stage... I got put off by the attitude that Papatilt brought in. I've noticed alot of the new guys bringing in some of the rudeness I see in the other forums (and why I don't post at em), guess I just stooped to their level. Edited my post, I'm in a better mood this morning.


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## afghani77 (Mar 25, 2009)

Wow! What a heated debate 
Thanks everyone for the input! It seems that clones would be my best bet.
And yess, thatnks Hick, for the "hairsplitting" correction - I probably did not
describe my intended method well enough - I did mean Sea of Green with
many small plants next to one another, rather than bending or trimming larger plants. Thus no screen intended there, although I would like to try that
sometime as well.
It is interesting to hear that clones may have smaller flowers than plants grown from seed... 
Suppose I will take my time to first select a mother with favourable traits
and then only go on to the main grow.
Thanks, moto-man, for suggesting bcseedking I heard good things about them too. Will probably order next week.
Anyone ordered before from cannadis.org? 

Thanks again for so much info!
I will sure get a grow blog going as soon as I have the thing growing:
Happy farming, everyone!


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## afghani77 (Mar 25, 2009)

Oh! One other thing:
As far as selecting mother goes, any suggestions on how to select
the one that will give most viable clones that will root better?
Is there any particular "clone viability" test?
Thanks again!


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## blancolighter (Mar 25, 2009)

afghani77 said:
			
		

> It is interesting to hear that clones may have smaller flowers than plants grown from seed...
> Suppose I will take my time to first select a mother with favourable traits
> and then only go on to the main grow.


 
This is what a few of us were getting "off topic" trying to explain (and getting reprimanded for). Unless for the reasons stated above already, clones will flower the exact same way as their mothers. 

Well the only way I'm aware of to select a mother that shows cloning vigor is to clone a few plants and see which one has a better rooting success rate, sadly no shortcut to this knowledge...


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## NorCalHal (Mar 25, 2009)

afghani77 said:
			
		

> Oh! One other thing:
> As far as selecting mother goes, any suggestions on how to select
> the one that will give most viable clones that will root better?
> Is there any particular "clone viability" test?
> Thanks again!


 


First off, I have to say that Hick was dispelling the false information made by some folks in this thread, plain and simple. False info is more harmful then the DEA.

Selecting a mother plant is a JOB unto itself.

Start with seeds. Germ them, Veg them. The day that you flip the seedlings over to 12/12, you must take a few clones off of each one. You MUST lable each clone taken as to what plant you took it off of.

Now, as you flower out your seedlings, you will see which one is more to your liking. Be it, produces more, better quality,faster veg, fast rootting time, a number of reasons that are important to you.

Once you nail it down to which seedling looks best to you, you should have the appropriate "clone" to reveg and make the "Mother".
Now, any clones taken off of the new "mother" will be an exact "clone" of the plant you picked.


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## Hick (Mar 25, 2009)

> And yess, thatnks Hick, for the "hairsplitting" correction - I probably did not
> describe my intended method well enough - I did mean Sea of Green with
> many small plants next to one another, rather than bending or trimming larger plants. Thus no screen intended there, although I would like to try that


 ... I wasn't confused by your sog description '77. 





> Root veg and flower.. in small spaces with size restriction, clones are superior.. IMHO. You can flower at any size, as long as they are rooted.


...
   and in your case, and for a sog, recommended clones. 
As for choosing your mother/donor,.."I" prefer to flower the plants frrom seed, as NCH recommends. And choose my donor by watching the plant from seed AND sampling the "final product". Then retaining one of the preferred plants clones as the "keeper/mother".


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## curiouscat420 (Mar 25, 2009)

i have only grown from seed... so my opinion is bias.. i found it really easy to do... 

thing is, it is 4 months from seed to harvest usually, and about 3 for clone to harvest... i imagine that if you vegged that clone for an extra month (to catch up with the seed) it would produce a very similar yield...

i also like the seed idea because of the following reasons

a) you can transport seeds
b) you KNOW your strain (assuming it isnt bagseed)


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## NorCalHal (Mar 25, 2009)

curiouscat420 said:
			
		

> b) you KNOW your strain (assuming it isnt bagseed)


 

What I have found over the years is even when you get 10 seeds from a reputable seed bank, there are still going to be variations of that strain.
The 10 seeds are the same strain, known as a "genotype" (spelling??)
The variations of the "genotype" are whats known as a "phenotype".

Finding the phenotype you want and preserving it is what it's all about for me. That is the key in finding true "dank".

You have to realize too that the phenotype I choose out of the 10 might be different in the pheno you choose. It is all personal preferance. There is no correct "pheno", it's the characteristics you find apealing that make it unique.

Each of the Phenotypes, though similar, will have many differences about them. Some big, some not. A big one is flower time. Even though they are the same "strain", some will flower faster then others, at least that has been my experience.

When you are working with a chosen "phenotype", that means you have chosen a mother and take cuttings and flower those out. To me, that is when you truly know your "strain".

Sorry for the ramblings...


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## Codybear (Mar 25, 2009)

I was impressed with the BC mango from BC seedking.  Awesome looking sugary crystal coated buds with the smell that reminded me of a fruit market.  yummmm.  Great effect also.


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## curiouscat420 (Mar 25, 2009)

NorCalHal... your words are that of an experienced grower...


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## King Bud (Mar 25, 2009)

Seed Pro: You have the choice of any strain available. No one learns that you're growing (assuming you deal anonymously with the seed bank)


Clone Pro: You save time, if you're rushing to flower. You get better genetics (assuming the clone bank chose their mother out of a large batch of seeds, or have the original genetics). Less expensive.

Clone Con: You have to deal face to face, so someone knows you grow. In comparison, there is usually a very limited selection of strains.


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## NewbieG (Mar 25, 2009)

blancolighter said:
			
		

> PapaTilt, and NewbieG, are you and papatilt the "stay on topic police" or somethin?? I was addressing the not so correct info presented after the main post, or am I only allowed to answer the first posting?
> 
> Also, seed or clone, not a no brainer,  AUTOFLOWERING plants are something to consider here. They grow from seed and finish in a relatively short time, stay a managable size, and you don't have to go to the trouble of keeping a mother plant around, so thats another reasonable option to look into. In fact, if this person doesn't have the room for a mother, it would be a great route to go.
> 
> How about next time instead of dissing on how I didn't post addressing the original question, you actually put forward some good information on the topic instead. Sure I may have been off track a bit, but I gave some actual info regarding clones, that shoot, maybe someone gained from. What did you contribute  besides the comment "Clones Kill Seed. No Comparison", when in fact, I would say autoflowering seeds would be a great alternative to clones in his situation, especially when he said he had trouble getting clones to root before, but apparently has had success with seeds.



*EDITED*

As far as your auto flower statement its still an inferior choice. You get more choices, higher yield per plant, you could even get faster harvests if you use a fast flowering strain like AK's... Spitting out key words liek "autos" and "gene pool" does not mean your presenting information... I realize you got a better rep here, but my point is none the less valid. do to my rep what you'd like.


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## Newbud (Mar 26, 2009)

:holysheep: :argue: :chillpill: :48: 
Check resources section for good cloning advice.
Dare'nt post anything else lol


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## blancolighter (Mar 26, 2009)

Sorry man, I did that in a huff and meant to fix it, here's your rep back... Quittin smokins a *****, just got pissed.

Its all about presenting this guy with info and options man. Knowledge is one of the most valuable tools in what we do, and since knowledge is such a valuable tool, I'm glad I posted all I did


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## PaPaTiLt (Mar 26, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> hmmm.. at risk of being accused of "splittiing hairs".. a _sog_ does not employ a "screen" ..  that would be termed _sCrog_ I think....and I think you "assume" too much.
> 
> 
> Sorry if I come off hard, Im just a to the point kind of guy, and yes, you are splitting hairs about the scrog, sog.
> ...


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## blancolighter (Mar 26, 2009)

> Im just a to the point kind of guy



lol, not tryin to bash ya or anything, but it was just kinda funny to see in front of a rambling post...


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## Newbud (Mar 26, 2009)

Edit: Deleted my post so not to lower myself and bring anymore negativity to this forum


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## afghani77 (Mar 27, 2009)

NorCalHal, thanks for the detailed step by step. It does sound like a serious
job onto itself, indeed! From your description of the process i would think it
is from six to eight months before you "know the mother" as you said.
Does it sound about right?


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## afghani77 (Mar 27, 2009)

You're right, King Bud, I didn't consider the anonymity aspect of the
deal with clones...
I guess I will start from seed as before, but this time will have some patience to
select a mother for the keeping.
Thanks for advice


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## NorCalHal (Mar 27, 2009)

afghani77 said:
			
		

> NorCalHal, thanks for the detailed step by step. It does sound like a serious
> job onto itself, indeed! From your description of the process i would think it
> is from six to eight months before you "know the mother" as you said.
> Does it sound about right?


 

Yes sir, it takes time and effort to "weed" out bad phenos and pick viable ones.


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