# Massproducer's Coco buckets



## massproducer

OKay, I know I have promised for a couple of weeks now to post this thread, but I really wanted to post a detailed thread on my Hempy method.  I say hempy but they are not really the same as hempy's, I take hempy's to the next level, I tried to understand the science behind hempy buckets.

Before I get into my method and medium, lets explore hempy buckets in general.  

Hempy buckets are basically any bucket (I like 5 gallon pails), with a .5 inch hole punched, cut or drilled in the side about 2"-3" from the bottom.  There can not be any other drainage holes because this will become a simple built in rez, that the roots can feed from constantly, as this small rez always stays filled.  It is very important to measure the hole as it can not be any higher then 3", as only the root tips like to be constantly submerged in a passive system.   I will go over all of this in a lot more detail when we get to the bucket preperations, this is just a very high level overview.

What is the benefit of growing in hempy buckets as opposed to normal soil-less grows?

Firstly, because this has a built in rez and plenty of Dissolved Oxygen, the system has a phenomenal growth rate, once everything is dialed in, the growth rate rivals DWC...  Seriously!

Secondly if you are using chemical nutes, it cuts down on the waste because there is a lot less run off (more on this when we talk about coco coir).

Thirdly, my method when using coir, is IMO the easiest way to get dependable results using organic hydroponics.  That is right, coco coir is 100% organic and my method can be used with both organics and chems.


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## massproducer

Now that we have done a brief overview, we can now get more specific.  We will first look at the mediums that have proved the most benefical to me.  I use perlite and coco coir.

I have used everything from straight perlite, to perlite and vermiculite, and finally to coco and perlite.  I have used all of these in different concentrations and different strategies, but i find the method I am using now to be the best.

But first, what is Coco Coir?

Coco Coir
Coco coir is a relatively new growing medium available these days for the hydroponics soil less culture. Coco coir is being produced as a bi-product of the coconut tree. Coconut husk is processed to produce fibrous material for use as a growing medium.

History
Coconut coir (fiber made out of coconut shells) has been used in different parts of the world for many years. Initially this fiber had been used for making twine, mats and brooms by western civilizations, but it had never been looked at as a growing medium for plant growth in the western world, although it had been used as a growing medium in ancient India and China. The use of this product as a medium for plant growth started in the late '80s, and moved into the commercial sector in the early 90s. Since then its use has increased day by day in home gardening, growing roses and vegetable production, and in the hydroponics industry in general.

Coconut coir is one of the most versatile materials man has ever extracted from Mother Nature. It has traveled a long way since its humble beginnings as the ubiquitous tying ropes. Coir today is used to make everything from door mats to rugs, rubberized coir mattresses, decorative rugs, garden supplies and growing medium. It is not just a natural product - it also has some winning advantages that make this product a premium choice for modern soil less growing systems.

Properties
Coco coir is a proven best alternative to any growing media. Its use as a growing medium outperforms any other medium used for growing vegetables, ornamentals and tree plants. Its soft structure promotes easy root penetration and healthy growth. Coco coir is 100% environmentally friendly. It is a renewable resource that is consistent in quality. Coco coir has the best physical and chemical properties to promote better plant growth.

&#8226; Coco has high water-holding capacity. It can hold water up to eight times of its weight and release it over a period of time.
&#8226; Coco has ideal pH in the range of 5.8-6.7
&#8226; It has excellent drainage and air porosity for better plant growth
&#8226; Coco is very low in EC and carries mostly potassium salts, which is an essential major plant nutrient
&#8226; Cation exchange capacity is very good
&#8226; Coco coir has some anti-fungal properties that help plants to get rid of soil borne diseases. It inhibits pathogens like Pithium
&#8226; Coco is very easy to re-hydrate after being dehydrated
&#8226; It is a biodegradable source that degrades very slowly and has a life of three to four years
&#8226; Contains significant amounts of  phosphorous (10-50ppm) and potassium (150-450 ppm)

As mentioned above Coco coir is not just a natural product with very good properties for plant growth - it also has some winning advantages over other growing mediums.

Advantages of Coco Coir
&#8226; It is a 100% renewable resource
&#8226; Coco coir is light in weight
&#8226; It is consistent in high quality
&#8226; Coco coir is completely environmentally friendly
&#8226; The top of the product layer in grow bags/pots always remain dry, leaving behind no chances of fungal growth
&#8226; Coco coir never shrinks, cracks or produces crust
&#8226; It promotes better root systems in a short time
&#8226; Coco coir is odorless, pleasant to handle, and uniform in composition


If you plan on using chemical nutes, then I would highly recommend you using something specially formulated for Coir, something like Advanced Nutes - Monkey JUice or Canna COCO nutrients.  Coco coir's only bad attribute is that it will absorb certian nutrients while releasing others that it is rich in, so you need to add extra, N and Calcium for atleast the first few feedings while the cation exchange is balancing nutrients.


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## massproducer

So now we know what Coco Coir is...Lol

It is time to look at the design of the buckets.

As I said earlier, this is propably the easiest part of the entire set up.  All you need to do is make a mark 2"-3" from the bottom of the bucket, that's it.  Of course you want to thoroughly wash the inside and outside of the buckets.

The pictures are just showing the hole punched into the bucket 3" above the bottom of the bucket


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## cuy103

WOW.  Phenomenal information!  Thanks!  Hopefully, once I become more skilled at growing I can try out this technique.  Keep'em coming.  I'll be looking forward to this informative thread!  ​


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## massproducer

Now we are coming to the important part of the set up... The medium

As i stated earlier, I use Coco coir and perlite, but not in a simple mixture.  I found that one of the reasons that Hempy's work so well is because they somewhat simulate the water table in nature, which is one reason that trees get so large and have no real problem with a localize acute drought.  

What is the water table?

Basically in nature the earth is layered with different layers doing different things and providing different elements.  The top layer is where a lot of the magic happens, it is where the majority of the microbes and fungi are and as such where the majority of the availabe nutrients are.  As you go farther into the earth, the soil becomes more clay and rock, and then eventually we reach the water table, which is at sea level usually, and is basically an underground water source.  The same as a well.   This is basically unimportant but I like to know how and why things work, so I can understand and improve on my previous results.  The main thing to remember is that each level of ground get increasingly more damp until we reach the water table.

Another very cool thing happens in nature, that plants that reach the water table often have very specialized roots, that preform different duties based on the level of ground they are in.  meaning some roots will be specialized to uptakes nutes while others the ones that reach the rez will mainly uptake water.  This also happens somewhat inside in our grow rooms but not on the dynamic level that it happens in nature because of the layering.  The roots reaching the water table do not have a lot of nutes to eat, because there is less microbes and the water they are feeding on has a very low ppm, which is what happens when you use my method with coco, because the COCO filters the nutes and actually absorbs them and releases them as the plants need it, it has an excellent caution exchange, the best of any medium.

Why is any of this important?

It is important because it this is the most efficient way for the roots to grow and thrive, it eliminates a lot of nute burn, and causes the roots to grow and try to look for more nutes, increasing the plants size and uptake abilites.


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## docfishwrinkle

very simple & educated overview thanks. ironically ive been useing this stuff for a while only on various lizards, amphibians, & arachnids. i have 6 bricks laying in my basement. which will probably make up 3-5 gal buckets. couple of questions though.
1. could i adapt it to fit under a scrog screen useing buckets that have been cut down to approx. 3 gal? (limited on height)
2. what is your coir/perlite ratio?


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## massproducer

Now i will show you the way in which I layer my buckets, to create the water table effect in my buckets.

The first layer or bottom layer which simulates the rocky layer before the water table is made up of 100% perlite with a slight amount of lime or eggshells.  This is to provide calcium, as this is the one element that will for sure be present in nature at the water table as calcium is basically in all water, rather hard or soft.  This layer stops right above the drainage hole.  So the rez will consist of water and perlite.


The second layer, consists of about 75% perlite and 25% coco coir.  Just mix the two together in the correct proportions, nothing special has to be done.


The third layer is about 50% perlite, 40% coco and 10% worm castings.  From this point on we start to mix in our organic soil amendments, taking into consideration there NPK value and the age the roots will be when they reach this spot.  Meaning the top few layers we mix in alphalfa meal, kelp meal and fish meal because the plants will be in need of a Nirtogen boost when they first are transplanted into the system because we use these for our flowering room.  So in the first 2 weeks of flowering I like to provide extra N and Mg, so that I avoid deficiences during the stretch.  But on the contrary in the lower portions I like to add guanos and high p castings, because the plants should be well into flowering when they reach this area and will require a higher p and K value but because I grow in coco coir, I don't really have to worry about providing excess K, because the coir itself is full of it.

The next layers are your choice as to how many you have and the types of amendments, if any you add.  But the idea is to steadily work up your layers until the top layer is 95-100% coir.  The most important thing about these layers are that you want to increase the amount or organic amendments with each layer to support the ever increasing amounts of microbes and fungi, that means adding more kelp meal, adding spent coffee grinds bees pollen(More coming soon on bee's pollen, so stay tuned), and carbon sources.  The wonderful thing about Coco coir is that it is so great at harbouring beneficals.  It is 100% organic, meaning the beneficals are actually eating the medium, so it does have to be replaces ever year or two, but the beneficals totally thrive, which makes your plants thrive.

Create a nice sized hole before you transplant, and add... Molding spent coffee grinds (eeewww, mass your gross) and worm castings and transplant.  Even if you plan on using chems, for the first feeding I suggest you innoculate your buckets and medium with a simple arreated castings teas(More coming up on brewing the tea).

why molding coffee grinds?

The main and fastest colonizing fungi is Trichoderma, or Green Mold.  This fungi is also the most prevelant benefical fungi in our coco coir, and is what we are trying to culture in our medium.  It not only decomses organic matter to make them availible for the roots to uptake, it also kills any pathogen that enters its territory.  By leaving spent coffee grinds in a open bowl, the spores will find it quick, colonize it and star releasing enzyes to break down the coffee and kill of any bad bugs that may have beat them there.  After a few days you will see a green coating which is trichoderma, trichoderma is a type of mychorrizae fungi, a symbiant.  So thats why I always save my coffee grinds.  And egg shells for calcium.


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## LowRider

good thread.  keep it coming.  I'm marking this thread


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## TheChosenOne

so this is hempy buckets
thanks for the tip will try this out with my clones


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## massproducer

Okay so this is how i make my tea, it is very easy and very quick.

Firstly take a bucket, i use an extra 5 gallon bucket, and fill it with water.  You need to let the water sit out for atleast 24 hours, I like to even hook up my air stones and pump now and bubble the water.

After 24 hours, I take a woman's nylon (stolen from the wife), and put about a cup of worm castings inside and tie it off.  Next I tie the end of the nylon to the handle of bucket and put the part with the castings inside the bubbling water.  I like to add a bit of kelp meal for the fungi to feed on and some colonized coffee grinds, along with about a table spoon of blackstrap mollasses.  I also take a bit of my daughters aquarium gravel and add it to speed the process.

I let this bubble for 24 hours, squeezing the castings and nylon ever few hours to release as much microbes as possible, then I remove the nylon and use the castings to top dress my other plants, and add more mollasses and bubble for 24 more hours.

When done, I dilute the mixture and foliar feed it as well as top feeding


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## massproducer

So thats basically it, I think I covered everything, but if not just let me know, what you what me to elaberate upon.

Because I run a perpetual grow, i always have plants flowering together of all different ages.  Well here is a few pictures of the grow room right now, sorry for the colour on some of them


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## massproducer

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> very simple & educated overview thanks. ironically ive been useing this stuff for a while only on various lizards, amphibians, & arachnids. i have 6 bricks laying in my basement. which will probably make up 3-5 gal buckets. couple of questions though.
> 1. could i adapt it to fit under a scrog screen useing buckets that have been cut down to approx. 3 gal? (limited on height)
> 2. what is your coir/perlite ratio?


 

Yes this method works for any size container, because I use these really only to flower, I usually cut my buckets down to about 3 gallons, because I do not need that much medium for flowering.  But yes I am actually growing right now in multiple size containers because I wanted to know just that question, and I am trying to really test my method to get the best results.  

I will say this though, coco really causes the roots to explode, you will even see roots growing out the top of the medium... They grow everywhere, so the bigger the container the bigger the plant.  But i have some very nice sized plants growing in 1 gallon milk containers, but they were only flowered in there, but I have yet to have a problem with them.


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## massproducer

Great question Doc, everyone keep em coming.  The answer to your second question is in post number 7, right after your question.

I thank everyone for there kind words, lets keep it green


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## KGB30

Quest Mass

Can you enlighten me on how the water valve 3 unches from the bottom helps?

Does the Valve hole just release water to help the roots from getting rottened.

Thanks Mass


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## bombbudpuffa

The valve is a drain valve. It sits up high so you have a res in the bottom. This is the only type of hydro I didn't fail miserably at. Very simple. Great thread Mass!


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## massproducer

yup bomb got it, the hole ensures that the water level stays under the hole, and water above the hole will get drained out of the bucket, which will prevent over watering


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## KGB30

Thanks Mass & Bombbudpuffa


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## TheChosenOne

nvm i guess im wrong about the pots lols:aok:


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## massproducer

The one thing I forgot to talk about is the feeding schedule.

I feed my plants about every 2-3 days with either an organic tea or 800 - 1000 ppm of advanced nutrients Monkey Juice.  I also always add a tablespoon of blackstrap.  Because of the microbial and fungal life within the coco it is a good idea to use dechlorinated water for all feedings.  

Every 3rd watering is just blackstrap and water, to flush any excess salts.

The goal with feeding is to keep the rez pretty much full all the time, so that the plants can eat constantly while still recieving crazy amounts of dissolved oxygen from the medium.  

This is the point in my system of using pure perlite in the rez area, the perlite will create tiny air pockets, while still wicking the water back up into the medium where the specialized roots are feeding and the beneficals are doing there thing.  With an organic medium you do not want the medium to dry out too much because some beneficals need moisture to survive and most need it to thrive.  But with this system it is almost impossible to overwater your plants, because of both the bucket design, and the perlite and coco.

In the first week while the roots are trying to reach the rez you will want to feed everyday, after the roots hit the rez you can back off to every 2-3 days.  You will know that the roots have hit the rez beecause there will be an explosion of growth almost overnight, it truly is amazing.


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## Tom O'Bedlam

maybe...SOMEDAY...I'll try this. Let me get past the first time soil grow. I like it tho..


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## massproducer

honestly, I think this is easier then soil, because there is no worries of overwatering, the ph is almost unimportant, and over feeding is almost no existant.  This is all because of the coco and drain hole.


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## 4u2sm0ke

Well massproducer....you almost had me on the bubble cloner..had some success with it..i am a strong dirt farmer.and still ambut after reading threw most all your threads over the past year,,This one I been fallowing and enjoying it.I would like to experiment some more this winter and am secretly going to try a single .5 gal grow. 


heres my question for the massproducer.  in this bucket grow Im curious if I can use prlite in net basket insted of cocco balls..or what ever those cerial looking things are?  ..i am a lover of perlite and love it that its 50% of this set up...this is some good stuff but dont let anyone on marP know I said this ..okay?   thanks


KEEP M GREEN


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## massproducer

Yes you can use 100% perllite if you wanted to but that would be more of a normal hempy buckets, and would be immpossible to layer.

Coco coir, is not balls tho, it is almost like a cross between peat moss and soil.  It is great

By the way, your secret is safe with me


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## [email protected]

intresting very intresting, i might have to try this method after i use up my FF soil.


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## massproducer

I hope ya do try it out [email protected], any questions I'm always around


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## HippyInEngland

massproducer said:
			
		

> I will say this though, coco really causes the roots to explode, you will even see roots growing out the top of the medium...


 
Hi Mass 

Roots are not designed to grow in light and light is bad for roots, do they grow out of the surface much?, do you cover the bucket with something so the light doesnt get to the surface roots?

Absolutely fascinating post, thanks for sharing this with us :aok:


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## massproducer

while this is true, root hairs and roots in general, only live for very short periods of time, the are designed to capture all of the availible nutrients and water in that perticular area and then they die providing food for the soil microbiology which in turn then breaks this down to be reabsorbed.  Roots are constantly growing and dying.  Light is bad for roots because it slows that root hairs growth, but before that happens the roots reorient themselves and grow back into the medium

Point being we are talking about seeing roots poking our of the medium, maybe .0005% of the actual root mass.  I can confidently say that you will never have a problem with these root hairs going up out of the medium a bit


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## MarPassion

Awesome thread Mass!!  Thanks for posting this and  I will add it to the grow resource page.


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## massproducer

Excellent Mar, I am just glad I had something to contribute to our wonderful community


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## docfishwrinkle

bravo, bravo!!! well done. convinced me to make the switch, on the sole part of not having to worry about the pH too much. my ? is can i still use this method with the leftover fox farm fert 6 pack i have. then im going all natural.


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## massproducer

yeah, fox farm would work wonderfully because of all of the organics, these buckets are living so the more organics you can feed the medium the better.


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## miketheman

Hey mass I was wondering if you put an airstone in the bottom with the pearlite, Would it be better for air or no?


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## lyfr

sup Mass,  gonna have to try this one with my next clones.  By then i'll have 2 hands (got cast ).  seems like a bit of work to set up which means more fun to me   i like that once its set up it seems to be pretty self sufficient...and i got bored with the rockwool though never had any major probs with it.  got soil goin now,  but i want to learn as many different ways to grow as i can...and try them all!  you have a talent for explaining the details with an approach that makes it very easy to understand!  thanks 4 da info


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## halzey68

oh boy is that scary.  since the perlite in the bottom is the rez and its full of water/nutes, what if you were to put an airstone under the perlite so the rez in the bucket was being aireated?? that would add a good amount of oxygen for the plant, huh? 
I plan on making a hempy bucket for 1 plant in my next cycle to try it out on. ill make a hole for a line to the airstone at the same heigth as the drain hole. 
 Sound like it might be beneficial???


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## [email protected]

if you used a airstone it wouldent be hempy method or massproducers coco bucket method as they both dont use any moving parts, or pumps, and would be more dwc, so might as well just go dwc jmo. thats why i think this method appeals to me so i dont have to run a bunch of air pumps. im defintly trying this soon. anyways ill letcha know as soon as i try your method out man, ill prbbly have some ?s.


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## massproducer

It has been tried before Halzey, it was found that with normal hempy's it didn't really have any real benefit from adding an air stone.  The rez gets used up very quickly, and because you are always watering and the water has to trickle down through the medium, it actually aerates the water as it flows down into the rez, IMO a better thing would be to aerate the nute solution before you feed your plants.  I like to bubble my nutes or water for 24 hours before I feed my plants and it provides plenty of D.O, but you could always try it out and report back to use, because I am always open to ways we can improve everything, but I myself don't think it will really help much at all.

Also as Toke said, the greatest thing about this method or hempy's method, is that there is no moving parts, nothing to break or malfunction, no worries of dissolved Oxygen or root rot, but you can still achieve a phenomenal growth rate that will rival other active mthods such as DWC, that totally rely on moving parts.

I am known to overcomplicate things for myself at times but with complication comes problems, so the point of this method was to avoid the complications while still keeping a very nice growth rate.

Great question Halzey


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## [email protected]

yup that aerated water does wonders i always use a air pump to aerate my water before feeding indoor, outdoor etc and im just useing normal pro mix and fox farm soil for now untill i order up some good perlite, vercumilite, and coco to try Massproducers method!!!!

another thing i used like a 40 gallon air pump to airate 1 or 2 gallons i figure the more GPH or pgm or what ever the faster you should have fully aerated water but thats JMO.


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## Aurora_Indicas_Dad

i'm using them coco disks right now (the ones you soak in water and they expand to the size of a gallon pot) and i'm loving it,its my first time using it and i'm actually considering using it over rockwool.like you said,ph is never a problem. i do have to water every 2-3 days,but i.m.o. it drys out alot faster than soil but i'm lovin it.definitly some good stuff.






			
				massproducer said:
			
		

> Yes you can use 100% perllite if you wanted to but that would be more of a normal hempy buckets, and would be immpossible to layer.
> 
> Coco coir, is not balls tho, it is almost like a cross between peat moss and soil. It is great
> 
> By the way, your secret is safe with me


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## Mutt

massproducer said:
			
		

> honestly, I think this is easier then soil, because there is no worries of overwatering, the ph is almost unimportant, and over feeding is almost no existant.  This is all because of the coco and drain hole.


more to it than that i think. the coco is really just the medium. its the factory your feeding, but yeah LO should not require much monitoring in PH. microbes take care of the feeding.  just keep them buggies happy 

online bro of mine sent me something on microbial life of coco...i'll see if i can dig it up. 

Great thread mass....sorry if i butted in did not read entire thread...but your on track  can't wait to see how this turns out for ya 
:farm:

edit: one chem dude converted 200,000,000 to go


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## massproducer

Yeah if you are using coco coir like soil, IMO, you have to start treating it more like hydro, Coco has excellent water holding capabilites but it also hold extreme amounts of air, so if you have no rez then you want to feed your coco coir almost everyday at times, but atleast every second day.


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## massproducer

Mutt said:
			
		

> more to it than that i think. the coco is really just the medium. its the factory your feeding, but yeah LO should not require much monitoring in PH. microbes take care of the feeding.  just keep them buggies happy
> 
> online bro of mine sent me something on microbial life of coco...i'll see if i can dig it up.
> 
> Great thread mass....sorry if i butted in did not read entire thread...but your on track  can't wait to see how this turns out for ya
> :farm:
> 
> edit: one chem dude converted 200,000,000 to go


 

Well i have been experiemnting with different mediums for a while, in hempy style buckets, and using coco coir is a totally different game.  Coco has the ability to harbour beneficals like no other medium because of its organic composition.  It build the strongest root systems, and with the amendments that I used and explained, it really is that simple.  

A normal hempy bucket is not the same as my coco layers buckets, they work somewhat differently, all because of the layering and because of the coco's properties.  It is practically impossible to overwater and because of the coco and the way that coco regulates nutrients overfeeding is somewhat hard as well because the coco will absorb the nutrients that it needs, while releasing others that it is in excess of.

The largest obsticle to over come is the cation exchange.  Once this is balanced it is truly smooth sailing.  I always feed my beneficals diverse food sources so that I get all possible microbes and fungi to colonate my medium but with coco it is not even really required because the beneficals can feed directly on the coco itself.

Because of coco coirs ph, which is around 6-7, all nutrients stay availible to the plants, and you should have no ph problems, and that is not to mention that the beneficals will also regulate the PH, but using something like peat moss, which is the main constitue on something like promix, ph becomes important because the ph of peat moss is around 4, so even with the beneficals going to work you still need to monitor the ph.  With the ph of peat moss being so low, it is very easy for nutrients to become insoluable and collect as salts, this is greatly reduced by coco because of its cation exchange rates.


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## massproducer

I though that I would post a couple pics of the mycorrhizal fungi at work.  It is somewhat hard to see, but all of the white fuzzy stuff you see on my medium is the benefical mycorrhizea taking over my medium.

This is what you want to see.  It is the fruiting body of the fungi, and contains the spores.  At this point it has already created a symbiotic relationship with the plants roots and is providing minerals and protection to my roots.  It would be very hard for a pathegenic fungi to invade my root zone or really even my medium


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## massproducer

Here are a few updated pics...

These are the Purps, and were flowered at about 6 inches.  They now stand almost 3 feet.

You can look back at some of the previous pics to see the progress of this plant


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## Abso

I may have to try a few of these.


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## massproducer

The first pic is the same purps

The second and third are of the most surprizing plant i have, It is Kush and it has exploded in the past week since it has reached the rez.

You can see this plant as well in the earlier pics I posted, it is the small plant in the back.  Well it is surely not small anymore.  Both this and the purps has stretched very efficiently, but have stretched about 4 times there original height, and these are very strong indica dominate plants, that you just do not expect this type of growth from.  I normally hate stretching but sometimes it is very beneficial, if you have the space, which i do.  The internode distance is great, but both this and the purps have transformed into bushy single cola plants.

What I mean by that is that the plants started bushy and are suppose to be bushy, and they still are very bushy with very nice branching, but because they have stretched so efficiently, each branch of the original bushes have stretched into very long single colas, it is more evident with the purps, as I am expecting many colas as long as my arm.


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## massproducer

a few bud pics from one of my kush plants getting closer to harvest, but still a couple of week away

While they look a little burned it was actually a magnesium deficiency, as I was still experimenting with different amendments and feeding schedules and medium.

These were grown in a medium closer to original hempy buckets, these are still rather impressive when you cansider I was totally experimenting.


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## massproducer

Here is what my purps should look like.  These were grown in a medium similar to the first kush but with more coco coir added.  These buckets were not layered and contained no amendments, they were also in full 5 gallon buckets that were too big for me because i usually transplant right before flowering into my buckets.

These are wonderful plants, but are kind of small because of the buckets being too big, the roots did not reach the rez during the stretch, it took them longer to explode, so I got smaller plants, with big chuncky buds.  It is funny because they kind of resemble God bud, like this.

So the goal is to make sure your buckets are big enough to support the plant during flowering, but small enough as to let the roots reach the rez within the first 2 weeks of flowering.


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## massproducer

As always questions are welcomed and encouraged.

Keep it green


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## lyfr

first off thanks man...now,  if i got pure indo clones in 1 gal pots[], ffof, can i transplant it into one of these?  3 or 5 gal?  i want to 5 of them this way and and put them in flower room ( 30 x 50" ) with one 7 gal soil mom thats already in there...400 hps.   thank ya Mass


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## massproducer

You should have no problems transplanting from ffof, I would go with 3 gallon buckets, depending on the current root ball,  if you are going to take them into flowering right away.  The goal is to get those roots down into the rez, before the end of the stretch, so they explode during the stretch and create a lot more bud sites then would normally be.

It sounds like you have a nice plan there lyfr


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## hayzy

Could you do a sog grow with this...with 1 gallon pots for the whole time, think that would be fast finish with the res kicking in


----------



## King Bud

I'm growing in coco mulch, with a 1/2 inch layer of coco coir (long strands of coco) on the bottom, which was intended for stopping the mulch from being flushed out the bottom when I over water (stupid reason, mulch doesn't flush out too much to be a problem).

I always feed the top of the buckets with nutrient rich water, and since reading this, for a select few, I am also bottom feeding with pure pH adjusted water.

I've bottom fed my buckets before.. but just didn't notice any benefit.

What I've noticed is that the bucket doesn't absorb all the water right away (so long as they're well watered), so in essence I've created a reservoir in the drain pan. It does disappear quickly (it's about an inch high), as I have to refill the bottom almost everyday, depending on how often I feed them. 

I yanked some plants out of their pots, and noticed thick long roots growing through the layer of coco coir strands.. while the buckets with no reservoir, there are no such roots. I _think _I've also noticed a growth spurt on those with the res, but s'too soon to tell.

Great thread MassProducer! You can bet I'll be bottom feeding the others, once I'm thoroughly convinced.


----------



## massproducer

hayzy said:
			
		

> Could you do a sog grow with this...with 1 gallon pots for the whole time, think that would be fast finish with the res kicking in


 
If you are going to do a sog then yes 1 gallon pots would be alright but keep in mid that coco coir will cause the roots to grow bigger and fuller then peat moss or potting soils, so you really should use something bigger then you would normally use for soil.

I would say a 2 - 2.5 gallon bucket would be best, also you can't use pots because they have holes in the bottom which will just cause all of your nutes to flow through, this would be just growing with coco, which is wonderful, but is a bit different then what I am doing.

Either way good luck and keep us posted.


----------



## massproducer

King Bud said:
			
		

> I'm growing in coco mulch, with a 1/2 inch layer of coco coir (long strands of coco) on the bottom, which was intended for stopping the mulch from being flushed out the bottom when I over water (stupid reason, mulch doesn't flush out too much to be a problem).
> 
> I always feed the top of the buckets with nutrient rich water, and since reading this, for a select few, I am also bottom feeding with pure pH adjusted water.
> 
> I've bottom fed my buckets before.. but just didn't notice any benefit.
> 
> What I've noticed is that the bucket doesn't absorb all the water right away (so long as they're well watered), so in essence I've created a reservoir in the drain pan. It does disappear quickly (it's about an inch high), as I have to refill the bottom almost everyday, depending on how often I feed them.
> 
> I yanked some plants out of their pots, and noticed thick long roots growing through the layer of coco coir strands.. while the buckets with no reservoir, there are no such roots. I _think _I've also noticed a growth spurt on those with the res, but s'too soon to tell.
> 
> Great thread MassProducer! You can bet I'll be bottom feeding the others, once I'm thoroughly convinced.


 


Sounds good, are you feeding your plant chemicals or organics?  Let me know if you ever need help with anything.


----------



## tn_toker420

Wow...Very interesting method...If i ever get started indoors i'll really have to consider this if the resources are available for me...The buds are lookin' nice...The kush is really good lookin  , keep us updated


----------



## King Bud

> Sounds good, are you feeding your plant chemicals or organics?


Right now I am feeding strictly chems. When I transplant them for flowering (right now I am intentionally stunting their height with a very low tds), I will probably add some bat guanos and worm castings to the top layer of coco mulch.

MassProducer, here's a link I think you'll like: hXXp://www.cannabisculture.com/articles/1534.html


----------



## massproducer

I actually came accross that same article a while back and it has always fascinated me.  MY method incorporates some of the same elements.


----------



## raoulduke2.0

I have been looking for something well rounded to settle on for my second grow, when the time comes and after this read, I have found it. This thread is tops. Props Mass Producer.


----------



## ozzydiodude

This tea receipe is just what I was looking for. Thank for the great info.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

hey mass! best thread read in while. i have couple questions. 1st of all i was wondering about worm castings, i can't find up here in MI within few minutes of house. my question is out of these existing items laying around in my basement: bone & blood meal, mushroom compost, kelp meal, epsom salt, & terra cycle castings(various castings pelletized/granular), would that be enough to sustain & even better make them thrive? id be useng grounds & eggshells also.do you use any lime in your mix cause i dont recall you mentioning it? just dawned on me you said coco has 6-7 ph. if you feel so kind maybe help me in order of layers if i can get away w/ what i have. noobie here & still learning npk values for different amendments. what could be minimum # of layers, im thinking of going 4-5? love the fact that its somewhat of a set it & forget grow. oh yeah one last thing i promise, ill be putting 16"-20" plants from one gallon pots into 5 gal. is this ok? thanks for everything in advance.


----------



## ozzydiodude

:farm: MassProducer I have just joined MPF  :woohoo:      the info found here is the BEST!
:heart:  :dancing:  :heart: 
I have grown outside for 20+years. Just moved indoors the first problem :hairpull:  Spider mites.
solved thanks to you and HICK. I plan to post my closet growroom design after it proves to work. I haved used a soil pot design that is the same as your buckets, they work fantasticly outside, I am glad to find out they work indoor as well. Is black all right for inside?  If black is use outdoor the sun heat the soil to much. 
 Again Thanks to All for sharing:48: :watchplant:


----------



## massproducer

yup, you sure can use black buckets inside... I would recommend something that makes it hard for light to get through to the root mass, It is not as important as it is with traditional hydro because the coco coir will eat any light that does happen to enter the buckets


----------



## massproducer

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> hey mass! best thread read in while. i have couple questions. 1st of all i was wondering about worm castings, i can't find up here in MI within few minutes of house. my question is out of these existing items laying around in my basement: bone & blood meal, mushroom compost, kelp meal, epsom salt, & terra cycle castings(various castings pelletized/granular), would that be enough to sustain & even better make them thrive? id be useng grounds & eggshells also.do you use any lime in your mix cause i dont recall you mentioning it? just dawned on me you said coco has 6-7 ph. if you feel so kind maybe help me in order of layers if i can get away w/ what i have. noobie here & still learning npk values for different amendments. what could be minimum # of layers, im thinking of going 4-5? love the fact that its somewhat of a set it & forget grow. oh yeah one last thing i promise, ill be putting 16"-20" plants from one gallon pots into 5 gal. is this ok? thanks for everything in advance.


 

Yeah everything sound great, you do not have to worry about the worm castings, because the coffee grinds will do a lot of what the castings do, so you should be perfectly fine.

I do not use lime because I do not have to worry about the ph too much because of the ph of the coco and the fact that the beneficals will take care of a lot of that for me, also adding the eggshells is basically like adding lime, because eggshells are basically the same thing, eggshells are basically like 97% calcium carbonate, same as lime.

I like to use about 4-5 layers, adding more coco to each layer until the top layer is basically all coco and amendments.  

A 5 gallon bucket should work great for plants that size, you are going to have some monsters on your hands in a few weeks, good lick and keep us informed


----------



## docfishwrinkle

massproducer said:
			
		

> Yeah everything sound great, you do not have to worry about the worm castings, because the coffee grinds will do a lot of what the castings do, so you should be perfectly fine.
> 
> I do not use lime because I do not have to worry about the ph too much because of the ph of the coco and the fact that the beneficals will take care of a lot of that for me, also adding the eggshells is basically like adding lime, because eggshells are basically the same thing, eggshells are basically like 97% calcium carbonate, same as lime.
> 
> I like to use about 4-5 layers, adding more coco to each layer until the top layer is basically all coco and amendments.
> 
> A 5 gallon bucket should work great for plants that size, you are going to have some monsters on your hands in a few weeks, good lick and keep us informed


music to my ears! im supercropping @ moment to scrog if my slow flowering of previous grow will ever finish. its @ 12 wks flower!also i found coco coir years ago for reptiles. you can get 3 bricks which makes 21-24 liters for $7 @ local pet shop. food for thought.


----------



## trillions of atoms

great thread MP, useless and i have talked for hours on the original hempy buckets, he also uses co2, sealed chambers, and verticle lighting to maximize growth.


loved the thread bro- great job!


----------



## massproducer

Everything looks perfect lyfr, you have everything you need.  Let me know if you need any help layering your buckets or with anything else, trust me it will be very fun, I think you will really like this method.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> very simple & educated overview thanks. ironically ive been useing this stuff for a while only on various lizards, amphibians, & arachnids. i have 6 bricks laying in my basement. which will probably make up 3-5 gal buckets.


 3 bricks when mixed in porportion will make 6-2.5 gal buckets 1/2 of what i thought. yeah 6 bricks overkill, but will seal in 5g buckets & its ready for next time.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

i converted last night. heres recipe for "soil" mix & tea. let me know please if there is anytrhing that should be takin into consideration. my one worry is about tea if i should dilute b/4 feeding to ladies.

"soil"
1st layer-100% perlite(1/2" above overflow hole),1tsp pulverized eggshell, 1/2tsp lime

2-75% perl(5c), 25% coco(1.5c)

3-50% perl(2.5c), 40% coco(2c), 10% mush. compost(.5c)

4-25% perl(1.5c), 75% coco(3.75c), 1tsp terracycle guanos(npk=5-3-4), 
   3 tbs bone meal(6-12-0)

5th-0% perl, 100% coco(5c), 1c kelp(1-0-2), 1/2c blood meal(12-0-0)

in trans plant hole on bottom .5c colonized coffee grounds spread evenly then plant & .5c grounds packed in sides & topped w/ coco.

tea (2gal)

2c mush. compost

2c kelp

2tsp fish emulsion

2tbl molasses

.5tsp epsom salt

2tbs araga-might

araga-might is used to buffer, stabilize, & remineralize ro water for reef aquariums. contains calcium, carbonate, strontium, magnesium, & potassium. all aereated 24 hrs, water decanted, & diluted w/ 2 gal ro for use.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

hers pics


----------



## massproducer

Looking very nice doc, I am not sure how I missed this, but either way you have everything under control.  Everything sounds and looks great.  I do not have any experience with araga-might but it sounds great as well.

With the tea you want to dilute it because you are extracting all of the soluable nutes from whatever is in your tea.  So your 2 gallons of tea will go quite a ways, I dilute it to about 10 parts unchlorinated water to 1 part brewed tea.  So your tea will feed about 20 gallons of medium.

Also you will want to feed them lightly everyday until the growth takes off, as then you will know that they have reached the rez.


----------



## massproducer

I have not been updating things as much as I should have so here i am with a few pics.

Firstly we have some Mendo purps - sativa pheno, it has the most delightful skunky, grape Kool-aid smell and taste.  This is truly one of the best strains i have tasted in my life, and i do not say things like this normally.  This perticular pheno will be in my garden for a very long time to come.  When it comes to taste, this is right up there with sour diesel.


----------



## massproducer

next we have a big sativa dominate BC kush.  This plant is huge, it has a nice hashy, kushy smell and a refreshing sour citrus hashy flavor.  This is not my favorite kush pheno, but it is a classic kush, growing on a sativa frame, it also has a very unique high.  It has a strong heavy kush high but also can be racy if you smoke more then you really should.

It is really starting to fill out now


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Those look Fantastic  mass...


----------



## massproducer

Lastly we have an indica dominate Purps.  This is somewhat different then its sister.  This purps is very indica, with very tight internodes, and a killer couch-lock high, and i mean killer.  This pheno doesn't have any of the skunky smell that the sativa pheno does, instead it has a candied or baked blueberry spice smell, when I say spice, i do not mean a peppery spice, more like a cinnimon/nutmeg baked smell.  All of this is undertoned by a very pungent hashy smell.  Some would say that this actually has a better, more complex smell and flavor then the other pheno, but I am a lover of fruity skunky, diesel flovered herbs, and that is what the sativa pheno is, it is kind of like sour diesel crossed with purple urkel.  But as i said, this indica pheno is also a keeper and kills the sativa pheno in pure potency power.  This is the herb that will put you to sleep very quickly, while the sativa pheno will have you wanted to go party. But they are both happy weeds.

It is only a few weeks into flowering now, so I will update when she gets older


----------



## massproducer

Thanks smoke, I am sure loving my new buckets because they make me look good...LOL


----------



## docfishwrinkle

massproducer said:
			
		

> Looking very nice doc, I am not sure how I missed this, but either way you have everything under control. Everything sounds and looks great. I do not have any experience with araga-might but it sounds great as well.
> 
> With the tea you want to dilute it because you are extracting all of the soluable nutes from whatever is in your tea. So your 2 gallons of tea will go quite a ways, I dilute it to about 10 parts unchlorinated water to 1 part brewed tea. So your tea will feed about 20 gallons of medium.
> 
> Also you will want to feed them lightly everyday until the growth takes off, as then you will know that they have reached the rez.


thanks for all the info much appreciated. yeah the tea was diluted 1:1 & dispersed between 6 plants, so roughly a heavy 1/2 gal per plant! i now added more distilled water to dilute & fill "res"(1/2g per plant). reason being figure roots will be there in min of 7 days. only a thin layer of coffee grounds seperates root ball from top of res layer. they came from 3/4g pots. i'll keep you informed through a GJ i started way back. ill put in signiture if youre interested. sorry if it felt as i was starting to jack your thread.


----------



## massproducer

not at all doc, this tread is for everyone who would like to try this method, or even anyone is is simple interested.  Never feel like you can't post in here, the fact is that you guys are the ones really keeping this thread alive, which I would love it to evolve into a massive 40 pagee thread, listing everyones results and pitfalls.

Respect and keep it green, or purple!


----------



## godspeedsuckah

Hey mass, can you reuse the coco coir for future grows?


----------



## docfishwrinkle

massproducer said:
			
		

> The wonderful thing about Coco coir is that it is so great at harbouring beneficals. It is 100% organic, meaning the beneficals are actually eating the medium, so it does have to be replaces ever year or two, but the beneficals totally thrive, which makes your plants thrive.


forget post # , but 1st page w/ pics showing mixes of layers


----------



## massproducer

Yup you sure can, you just need to remove some of the coco in order to relayer your buckets and then you are good to go.  However because coco coir is an organic medium, it will eventually breakdown and need to be replaced.



			
				godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> Hey mass, can you reuse the coco coir for future grows?


----------



## Dozingoffaroundthecorner

Mass P this is one of the most helpful threads I have read on here. 

Coco reminds me of hemp a lot. I wonder if it is possible to grow in a hemp medium with the same consistency.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

When cloning, can I clone in rockwool and then transplant right into the coco coir?


----------



## massproducer

Yup you sure can, or you can just fill up a plastic cup with coco and clone in those and then transplant into coco buckets, but rockwool is fine



			
				godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> When cloning, can I clone in rockwool and then transplant right into the coco coir?


----------



## massproducer

I am not quite sure of all of the properties of hemp as a medium but i will have to look into that for sure.

Thanks



			
				Dozingoffaroundthecorner said:
			
		

> Mass P this is one of the most helpful threads I have read on here.
> 
> Coco reminds me of hemp a lot. I wonder if it is possible to grow in a hemp medium with the same consistency.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I am trying your method with this grow I am starting now. Once my room is finished I will do it. MY plan was to keep the 2 mothers in 5 gal pails. When I am ready to flower (Northern Lights and Aurora Indica) do you think I would be better off with a 3 gallon pail? Actually, after harvest I could replant my next clone right into that 5 gallon pail I flower with couldn't I? I was also wondering if I need to use distilled or RO water with this method. I have hard water, or can I check my ec reading on my water and use it if the reading isnt to high?


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I just called my local garden center and they can get 3.5 cubic feet of coco peat (he says its the same thing) for $12.95. Is it the same?


----------



## massproducer

coco peat is basically the same thing, except that the peat is a courser grade that may include things like coco chips, while coco coir is very fine.  Coco peat has basically a similar texture to peat moss, but still has all of the wonderful properties of coco coir.

I would go with the 5 gallon if you are going to be flowering a well established plant like a mother, because your roots are going to expand in unexpected ways and you do not want them to be limited by the space they have.

You do not have to use RO or distilled water but i would recommend letting all of the chlorine evaporate for 24 hours before mixing nutes and feeding your plants.  Depending on how hard your water is, it may not be a problem at all because coco acts as a buffer but actually requires a bit more calcium in order to fully buffer and release nutes, so if your water is hard with calcium, which most hard water is because of the limestone located deep in the earth, then it may actually be benefical.  Just make sure that you watch your plants for any signs of lockout or deficiency, and remember that the first places to look in coco are N, MG and Calcium, then you'll be fine.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I am going tonight to get the coco peat and I will also get a few bricks of coir to mix it. I can't wait, this will be fun. I was reading that with coco coir you can maintain a plant for a few years without the need to repot. Do you believe that mass? The reason why I ask is because with your method I think I could re-veg a plant a few times before I need to start over again. What are your thoughts?


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I am going to drive you crazy massp. Besides the above question, are fox farm nutes safe to use with coco?


----------



## docfishwrinkle

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> I am going to drive you crazy massp. Besides the above question, are fox farm nutes safe to use with coco?


im in day 5 of conversion & plants have gone from nute burned & flushed out looking from month of plain h2o to nice greener plants. theyre not as green as should be but definate improvement. will show lil of porn later. sorry the answer to your question is yes. at least im positive on your liquids, not sure on granulars. mass p?


----------



## massproducer

yup fox farm nutes work great with coco, most things work wonderful with coco, as long as you remember the areas that could give you problems, and have a solution to those problems before they occur.  So the is N, MG, and calcium

As long as you have enough root space in your bucket then not repotting and revegging would work wonderfully in coco, I would just say make sure that you have enough root space because the roots are going to grow, a lot and fast.


----------



## gmo

I can hardly wait to try this mass.  Hopefully next go round I can get this thing setup.  Your buds are looking really good, that sativa purp looks amazing.  Keep it up, and thanks for the great tutorial.


----------



## massproducer

So here we are on the best day of the year...harvest day!  Well because I do a type of prepetual harvest, i usually harvest a plant or 2 every 2-3 weeks, this time I only have 1 plant to harvest but I have been waiting to harvest this plant for weeks, it is my mendo purps, sat dom.

Let the show begin


----------



## massproducer

Shall we continue?


----------



## massproducer

Keep it going
for some reason I can only upload 3 pictures at a time now?


----------



## massproducer

More


----------



## massproducer

Alright here is the last of this set


----------



## docfishwrinkle

well its been 7 days since given coco a go, & im pretty impressed how well sick plants snapped back from ph shock. ive been topping & trimming brown leaves to try & get a even canopy. once is achieved will flip. im scared i only have 16" to light. with these buckets growth is amazing! i know my roots are in res. cause past 4 days ive gained 8" of new growth on some of lower branches!:holysheep:  think im going to have to shackle these lil girls down. im hoping 2 get couple oz per plant. do you think this is a good guess? planning on flipping by saturday.


----------



## massproducer

They look fantanstic Doc, i am very happy for ya, but even happier that someone else now can experience the power of these buckets, they truly are great, thats the reason I felt compelled to post this thread.

by the looks of things as long as you lighting can support them, then yes a couple of oz per, is definiately in reach... a little advice, be prepared for the stretch because you are going to have some monsters on your hands.  As you said, be prepared for some heavy bondage, but wow I am very impressed.

So in your first week, what is your overall feeling of my bucket design?


----------



## massproducer

by the way...Doc and I are still looking for converts  :hubba:


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

im still temping...but will have to wait untill next Fall...but am enjoying the thread very much..


----------



## docfishwrinkle

massproducer said:
			
		

> by the looks of things as long as you lighting can support them, then yes a couple of oz per, is definiately in reach... a little advice, be prepared for the stretch because you are going to have some monsters on your hands. As you said, be prepared for some heavy bondage, but wow I am very impressed.
> 
> So in your first week, what is your overall feeling of my bucket design?


 
im running 600w digital, & watering after res & coco have been filled with approx. 1 gal i now add 6 cups to 1/2 gal every 3 days.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I am going to do the same thing you guys are doing starting this wednesday; utility people coming this week to do an install :rant: that my beautiful wife just had to have    but I am going to try re-vegetating using this method. I was talking with my local hydroponic dealer and he raves over using cocoa. According to him you should have no problems re-vegetating a plant in 5 gallon buckets for a good year or more. He said the cocoa takes so long to break down and it can support plant life for much longer than a bucket of soil.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

hey mass! have a ? for you. seeing that i put plants w/ 1 gal root ball into a 2.5gal bucket & the soil around root ball is pro mix bx do i need to worry about root rot still? reason i ask is coco is still moist 1/2-1" from surface & soil around root ball is going to be even more moist. my res has lil water in it, but would like to top off. i thought of 2 possible remedies if rot is a concern. 1 would be to painstakingly gently water outter perimeter to avoid pro mix. 2 would be to fill res through 1/2" hole with a funnel. thanks for the apprenticeship.


----------



## massproducer

It shouldn't be that big of a deal Doc, because promix has pretty good aeration and although the coco feels somewhat moist i can bet that it is holding a lot of oxygen, the best way to fight root rot is by providing oxygen.  Also as long as you are feeding the microbes they will fight off rot as well.

Basically just look for any signs of overwatering and deal with it accordingly if it appears but root rot will not be the first sign


----------



## tn_toker420

Hadn't had the chance to really stop by lately...But that mendos Purp is just beautiful Mass , truly...It's almost an exotic looking plant really...So whats your secret to getting the leaves to have such a change in color , temps.??? Anyway, wish i would've come by sooner, that girl just made my day  ...Keep it Up Mass, keep it GREEN...


----------



## Uncle Dolge Monster

massproducer said:
			
		

> by the way...Doc and I are still looking for converts  :hubba:


 
I'm in week 6 (of 12) in my current grow.  I will be using this method for the next grow, in about 6 weeks. I'll keep you posted.

Thanks, by the way!


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Hey, Mass, I just ordered some coco. I was wondering if it works well as just an additive to soil. From what i've read it doesn't compact like soil so it provides more air to the roots. Would you recommend using it stand alone or would it work just as good as an additive? Thanks!


----------



## massproducer

yeah it is great as an additive, but if you have enough I think it works even better as a stand alone alternative to soil and peat.  It hold much more air, and because of its benefical properties, i think you will love coco by itself.  The one problem is that you kind of have to water it everyday and treat it more like hydro then soil, but it is good because with coco their is never any problems with rewetting, like in soil and peat.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

mass whats happenin'? been having an issue past couple days & cant diagnos myself. upper leaves look like been exposed to too much heat but not the case. tested w/ 2 other thermometers & 2" above canopy is 80* @ highest. leaves are "praying" w/ tips curling down. like combo of heat & over/under water. couple leaves are remaining "fresh" green appearance as if they just started poppin', but are lil' smaller than my hand (cant get good pic). cant figure out. two waters ago was 10/2 1/2 strength nutes f.f. filled til slight overflow. next water 10/6 cause symptoms started showing of overwater from the 2nd thats why waited 4 days. that feeding did molasses water @ 2 tbls/gal. today mixed up & aerating 4 tomorrow 1/2 strength wk 2 flower f.f. nutes, molasses, 1/4 tsp epsom/gal, lil superthrive. thinking might be cal/mag def, but not really sure. well heres some pics. oh yeah roots are trying to jump out of buckets! this **** is crazy! thanks again for sharing all your hard work w/ us, much appreciated. maybe im over reacting but its not heat or overwatering. so this is why im questioning. dont know if ill do another "white strain" as they say sensitive to nutes. 1/2 dose nutes is all shell take. she ever so gently shows nute burn on tips. as long as it stays where its at shes taking up max nutes.


----------



## massproducer

are these the most significantly damaged leaves?


----------



## lyfr

These were the same size clones when i transplanted.  1 is your layered coco bucket and the other is FFOF, both 12/12 for about 11 days.
  You got me convinced...thank you sir 
View attachment 82615


----------



## docfishwrinkle

massproducer said:
			
		

> are these the most significantly damaged leaves?


yes, but every day few more per plant


----------



## massproducer

Thanks Lyfr...you got your self some beauts there

Doc, I would say that overall your plants look wonderful, I would actually say that you may have a tad bit of underwatering based on the slight wrinkle on the leaves, but this is no problem at all.  There may also be a bit of nute burn starting to happen, but once again this is no problem whatsoever, if it just stayed in the tips.  Try watering every 3 days and just give some dechlorinated water with a bit of molasses.  I like to kind of flush em out every week or so, but just giving them a feeding of plain water and molasses, to make sure that the salt levels aren't adding up, and to ensure that the coco is properly releasing the nutes in the correct amounts.

But your have nothing to worry about, because trust me, ALOT of people would love to see those in their grow room, when they opened the door, me included.  Plus you will start to get a feel for the coco and how it works, so that you can totally talior to providing what the plants need, from what I can see it looks like you are starting to get that feel already.  But yeah i think everythings fine


----------



## massproducer

Actually Doc, it could all be from slightly underwatering, because as the leaves usually on top loose water, the amount of nutes gets more concentrated within the leaves which can easily burn them if the water is not replace with the leaves cells within a given time.

Meaning basically slightly underwatering can cause your leaves to look and feel shirvilled, and cause slightly burnt leaves


----------



## massproducer

Lyfr, welcome to the club


----------



## docfishwrinkle

thanks & yeah they can only tolerate 1/2 nutes & are staying stable w/ thier slight burn. i thought might b over reacting but wanted to be sure cause had rough 1st grow & want the best 4 my girls. my water schedule is nutes, water w/ molasses, then water. sound ok? oh yeah i use ro only.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

lyfr that is 1 hell of a "proof is in the pudding" tell all. maybe more will sign up 4 this easy vigorous grow method.


----------



## lyfr

I didn't even realize i was supposed to be given them nutes too!  I been giving em plain water/mollasses wtater every other time.  another confirmation...my 2 coco buckets were the only thing i had that tested 6.5 ph...FFOF's were about 7-7.2 and the 50/50 FFof/coco's are sittin about 6.8.  thats the coco keepin the ph down right


----------



## docfishwrinkle

lyfr said:
			
		

> I didn't even realize i was supposed to be given them nutes too! I been giving em plain water/mollasses wtater every other time. another confirmation...my 2 coco buckets were the only thing i had that tested 6.5 ph...FFOF's were about 7-7.2 and the 50/50 FFof/coco's are sittin about 6.8. thats the coco keepin the ph down right


so you been growing ur biggest plant in coco/perlite mix in layers w/o nutes 4 how long? no organics @ all? thats amazing! coco must be the wonder drug!lol:hubba:


----------



## lyfr

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> so you been growing ur biggest plant in coco/perlite mix in layers w/o nutes 4 how long? no organics @ all? thats amazing! coco must be the wonder drug!lol:hubba:


 9/16...nothing.  first couple weeks just water, then I started adding molasses every other time.  yep, coco/perlite layers/3" res...but i did add bat guano,alfalfa meal, blood meal, vermi castings w/humus &myco's, a sprinkle of epsom salts and a sprinkle of lime ( the Mg, Calcium thing Mass mentioned ), the ashes that fell in from the doobie i was smokin and a whole lotta love.  Allthat in different amounts/layers of course.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

nice thats pretty much more or less what i did. thats awesome you have a side by side comparison. originally i thought u did w/ plain coco & h2o! def keep this thread updated w/ ur experiences & pics! what strain you have? ive bubblelicious & shes touchy.


----------



## lyfr

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> what strain you have?.


grape ape...and i just got a few more.  i do all my update's on new set-up link in my signature, i just wanted to stop in Mass'es thread for a minute


----------



## solarz

MassP, is coconut bark(for reptiles from Petsmart) efficient to use instead of the coco coir that you use?   Or what about the coco fiber that they sell at home depot/lowes that are used in hanging baskets?  Would either of those work?  I can't find the coco coir locally...or i just don't know where to look (any suggestions?).  Thanks


----------



## docfishwrinkle

solarz said:
			
		

> MassP, is coconut bark(for reptiles from Petsmart) efficient to use instead of the coco coir that you use? Or what about the coco fiber that they sell at home depot/lowes that are used in hanging baskets? Would either of those work? I can't find the coco coir locally...or i just don't know where to look (any suggestions?). Thanks


im using reptile coco right now you can get 3 bricks in a pack 4 around $8. each brick makes roughly 2 gal of coco. use ro to expand it. look @ post 64 & 67.


----------



## solarz

ok, thanks Doc.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

2wks today in flower & i need a bigger space. this method is insane i water every day 1qt to top "res" per plant, but will let them go for two days before ferts then give em 1/2 gal per plant & this is what happened. next time around definately useing scrog screen i built almost a year ago.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> I am going to do the same thing you guys are doing starting this wednesday; utility people coming this week to do an install :rant: that my beautiful wife just had to have   but I am going to try re-vegetating using this method. I was talking with my local hydroponic dealer and he raves over using cocoa. According to him you should have no problems re-vegetating a plant in 5 gallon buckets for a good year or more. He said the cocoa takes so long to break down and it can support plant life for much longer than a bucket of soil.


whats up GSS are you converted yet? just looking over thread & havent heard...


----------



## godspeedsuckah

yes indeed, planted 4 northern lights and 4 aurora indica lastnight.  can't wait to see what happens. your grow looks awesome doc


----------



## godspeedsuckah

hxxp://www.planetganja.com/highsociety/showthread.php?t=63904

This is a link I found which states you can use much smaller containers than with soil and still have very large grows in coco. What do you guys think? I would think you need some kind of automated watering system.


----------



## ugmjfarmer

Hey Massproducer, have you ever thought of converting this into a full system by using 1/4 supply line, a drain for run-off and a big res that could supply 12 or more of these buckets for a week or longer.

It seems like you could set it to fill the buckets every 2 days with 1 gallon or so of water and just make up new solution every week, making it a true automated hydo system with much more redundancy than a normal system given how infrequent you would need to irrigate. 

Maybe its possible to even just sub-irrigate as well.

I know it sounds like more work to setup, but really you could do a system like this with 48 plants and only have to work on them once a week when its dialed in. I'd love a system that grows 12 plants of 4 different strains (48 total) with 4 res's that I only change once a week. Since its drain to waste, there is no messing with PH every week. Yet your water usage would be decreased significantly over any other drain to waste, and your nutrient usage would be reduced too.

Think about it, for 48 plants to make it a week, you'd only need close to 100 gallons (or less, im probably over exaggerating) a week to make it work.


----------



## lyfr

ugmjfarmer said:
			
		

> Hey Massproducer, have you ever thought of converting this into a full system by using 1/4 supply line, a drain for run-off and a big res that could supply 12 or more of these buckets for a week or longer.
> 
> It seems like you could set it to fill the buckets every 2 days with 1 gallon or so of water and just make up new solution every week, making it a true automated hydo system with much more redundancy than a normal system given how infrequent you would need to irrigate.
> 
> Maybe its possible to even just sub-irrigate as well.
> 
> I know it sounds like more work to setup, but really you could do a system like this with 48 plants and only have to work on them once a week when its dialed in. I'd love a system that grows 12 plants of 4 different strains (48 total) with 4 res's that I only change once a week. Since its drain to waste, there is no messing with PH every week. Yet your water usage would be decreased significantly over any other drain to waste, and your nutrient usage would be reduced too.
> 
> Think about it, for 48 plants to make it a week, you'd only need close to 100 gallons (or less, im probably over exaggerating) a week to make it work.


Sorry to but in...but,IMO that would take away 1 of the main reasons i went with this type grow...no pumps,filters,stones or other electrical/mechanical devices to mess with


----------



## massproducer

Yup, while I love the idea and think that it would be great for some, I kind of like the fact of this having no moving parts, so nothing that can break or malfunction.

To run say 48 of these buckets you would need a major amount of space and light.  To even run 12 buckets, you need to have a lot of space, because when these take off, they really take off, almost beyond belief, 2-3 plants in say a nice sized closet is going to be very cramped, ask Doc.

I truly do like your idea, and as you said, things would be totally automated, i can bet that a lot of people would love to add your adaption to the system.  This is a route that I have gone down in the creation of the buckets, but opted for the simplicity and dependability of no moving parts.  I will tell you one thing tho, while it would make feeding easier, it will not increase the systems efficiency, unless you are running as you said 48 buckets, as I am sure feeding 48 buckets would almost become a full time job, and caring for 48 full grown plants in these buckets would definiately become a full time job.

Trust me these plants grow fast and get very big given the veg time.  What i mean is that a clone vegged for 1 week in my buckets, will basically equal like a 3 week veg in soil.


----------



## ugmjfarmer

Well in a big system like that, the whole key would be to get the plants to hit the res right as they start to bud. Can you imagine the speed you could get in the stretch and bud production?

But your right, simplicity wins. 

So if one was so inclined to setup 12 of these (seeing as that's the minimum number i'll be licensed for come november 2nd), how much light would one want? 2) 1000's? Are we talking about a 4lb system?


----------



## docfishwrinkle

hey mass whats up? was wondering if you thought of this or if its a bad idea? instead of having a weep hole at top of res couldn't you do a sight glass like a dwc bucket? im asking cause i hate watering till overflow especially when its nute time. only obvious draw back is to water lil, wait, then look @ glass. if you don't get carried away w/ water to flood your bucket then should be ok right? also you could see exactly how much shes drinking per day. i like to record as much as possible on an almost daily basis (ocd).


----------



## massproducer

The main reason that it is important to water till you see some overflow is because it re-oxygenates any stale water that may have been sitting in the rez since the last watering.

I agree that this is the biggest pain in the back, but as you said with time you start to understand how much water the plant will take at any given time.  I myself don't mind the overflow when it comes to feeding just water, but I try to be as precise as possibile when I water with my nutes, I do this by feeding it very slow and giving all of the water a chance to soak into the coco before adding any more, this way I can control the amount of run off, to my liking... But yes if you just pour in what you think they need you may be in for a nice overflow when the water soaks into the coco


----------



## docfishwrinkle

another question that i previously asked lyfr is, do you think that if i went dwc & fed organics i could still achieve that soil taste? until now w/ buckets i was going deep water, then your thread magically appeared & im convinced w/ the vigorous growth. want to veg no longer than sex appears then flower, but of course have big *** plants too. like to try every option to see what im capable of & what suits my needs. tell you what though im never goin' to let the coco's go. citral seeds, coco, scrog next grow. im convinced i can pull a #! please let me know your thoughts.

doc

oh yeah girls are @ 21 days 2day. can you say christmas green?


----------



## docfishwrinkle

x-mas green


----------



## lyfr

i use regular planter trays to catch overflow, dump them all in a bucket and feed my fushia's with it...but i also only have 6 buckets goin right now.  I was thinkin of usin my 2 x 4 tray to hold them and putting a bucket under the drain to catch it all at once.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

They are mighty fine doc, beauties!!! Are those 3 or 5 gallon buckets? I looked on my mop bucket and it doesn't say. All 4 Northern lights and 4 Aurora indicas sprouted in coco  I mixed some perlite, worm castings, and steamed bone meal to start them in. They seem to be very happy.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

thanks & actually 2 1/2, tallest plant is 40". sounds good give us some center folds to drool over  oh yeah ur avatar scares the **** outta me!


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I was going for some Holiday cheer. I like how you clean the lower branches on your plants, it really makes a big difference with airflow and plant health.


----------



## massproducer

I too use trays to catch the run off, and just like you I use it to feed my other house plants and they seem to love it.

Doc your plants look wonderful... Great job, man I really love coco

I have a bunch of pics to put up as well but i have been being lazy lately, but I will get them up tonite or tomorrow for sure.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

yes i believe so & also main reason is w/ these coco's i didn't comprehend how explosive these plants were going 2b, even though i was warned by the creator himself. wanted to focus the energy upwards. my space is 4x4x5h. wheres the porn?lol


----------



## docfishwrinkle

mass please do give us the pics of the mighty fine "fat" green ladies. if poss strain & age thx.


----------



## greenfriend

WOW those plants must be lovin it!  ill bet nothin makes better tasting bud than all those natural ingredients.  very informative. thanks!


----------



## lyfr

Somthing I noticed betwwen the FFOF and the MCB...same age and all, exactly,  but the FFOF has about 30% hairs that have turned,and the MCB hairs are bright white with no signs of slowin.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

yeah i noticed that from last soil grow compared w/ coco's this grow, but didnt know what to think being completely diff. genetics. today marks 4 wk flower almost 1/2 way there. im so giddy already. ill post pics after trick or treating.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

heres the pics 4 wks flower


----------



## canibanol cannonball

very nice buds 'Mass i checked in your journal just in time to watch them explode


----------



## lyfr

Howdy Mass, I got a question.  In 24 hours all the top fan leaves on 1 coco-buck got crispy and the lower fans lost maybe 50% moisture.  When i poked a thing in drainhole about a quart of water came out(about what i give it each day) that apparantly was stuck in there from previous watering.  Are the drowned roots what wrecked the leaves?  will upper root system recover?  3 other coco-bucks were same distance from aircooled lights with same care other than plugged drain hole.  thank you so much for your help.  There is a pic in my journal i cant figure out how to move


----------



## bombbudpuffa

Hey, Mass thanks for the thread. My coco/soil mix is working out amazingly. I might try straight coco in the near future.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

bbp give us sum porn!!!!!!!!!!! do it you wont be disappointed. just got done tying up branches. oh yeah you grow w/ pro mix right? if so theres a thread about it, you probably already saw it. come on wheres the pics...lol sorry just giddy from the intoxicating fragrance & dogfish head 90 min ipa


----------



## massproducer

Yeah it sounds like that that the problem lyfr...  While those damaged leaves will not probably revive the root system sould regenerate with no real problems, the growth could be stunted for a bit but all of the roots that were damaged and died will now become organic food for the microbes that will start thriving again

All will be fine, just monitor them for a week or so and let me know if they are worsting or starting to get better, if you have any liquid seaweed/kelp these are the times that I find it most beneficial




			
				lyfr said:
			
		

> Howdy Mass, I got a question. In 24 hours all the top fan leaves on 1 coco-buck got crispy and the lower fans lost maybe 50% moisture. When i poked a thing in drainhole about a quart of water came out(about what i give it each day) that apparantly was stuck in there from previous watering. Are the drowned roots what wrecked the leaves? will upper root system recover? 3 other coco-bucks were same distance from aircooled lights with same care other than plugged drain hole. thank you so much for your help. There is a pic in my journal i cant figure out how to move


----------



## godspeedsuckah

Hey mass, just wanted to update you on the coco grow I am doing now. Lastnight I transplanted 2 into your buckets, in a few days I will see how they like it. I followed your directions in the layering and worked in worm castings, spent coffee grounds, alphalfa meal, and steamed bone meal for the ammendments. I only transplanted 2 because I needed to soak another bale of coco. Tonight I will have the other 5 transplanted. So far just the straight coco with bone meal and worm castings (for germination) has sustained the plants quite well. I am hoping they will really enjoy these buckets. I will give them a couple more weeks to adapt to the change and do some tying down before the festivities begin


----------



## lyfr

massproducer said:
			
		

> the roots that were damaged and died will now become organic food for the microbes that will start thriving again
> 
> if you have any liquid seaweed/kelp these are the times that I find it most beneficial


Thanks Mass, you already answered my next 2 ?  just put 2 more coco bucks 2 the flowerroom(total of 4)...love'em


----------



## Tom O'Bedlam

man, this post just keeps on going and going and going...


----------



## massproducer

That's the goal anyways...lol


----------



## godspeedsuckah

Your bucket system is no joke Mass, I am really impressed. I have a little nute burn because my germination pots were light on the nutes and they needed a little kick last week. Anyways Aurora Indica and Northern Lights 19 days veg time and 2 days after transplanting into the 5 gallon buckets.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

My only concern I have with the buckets is watering. I can't seem to give them enough water. I will go back through this thread and see if you note how much water will be needed for the first few days of transition. So far I can water them every day and they seem to want more.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

massproducer said:
			
		

> In the first week while the roots are trying to reach the rez you will want to feed everyday, after the roots hit the rez you can back off to every 2-3 days. You will know that the roots have hit the rez beecause there will be an explosion of growth almost overnight, it truly is amazing.


 
Are you talking organic nutrients? What about all the amendments which have been added to the mixture, will this cause alot of nute burn on the plants? 

Also mass, it was touched on but not clarified, I have hard water with a PH around 6.8 - 7, will the metals and salts in the water be a serious problem like they can be with soil and cause lock out. I really don't want to feed tap water and then switch back and forth with distilled, the ph fluctuation will cause problems. I have been cutting the water in half with distilled to ease any future problems.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

Now all the plants seem to be taking a turn for the worse. They are wilting and slumped over. I checked the coco about 3 inches down in and it doesn't seem they are over watered. I followed your guidelines to the "T" and have no idea what is going on now. A response would be nice.


----------



## massproducer

u just need to feed dechlorinated water for the first little bit, until the plants tellyou they need food... Butthey will require a lot of water in the first few days to week... Take a few more pics and show me what they look like... Your hard water should not be a major problem, same with the ph, but chlorine is not your friend...  You will need to water everyday for about a week, get another pic up tho so i can see what we are working with.


----------



## massproducer

It is very hard to overwater coco unless your drain hole gets clogged and the water can't flow out, but that is where coco and soil differ, you do not want coco to dry out, it likes to be constantly moist as the beneficals need moisture to survive as well, so any watering problems will usually be underwatering


----------



## lyfr

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> I have hard water with a PH around 6.8 - 7, .


I use water straight from the tap..100-150ppm,  never adjusted ph with the coco-buck's and run-off is always 6.5, i do let it set out 24first.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

Ok guys here are the pics, poor things 
My temps are 75 day 68 night, 45% humidity.
I am watering 24floz her bucket per day. I gave them a dose of ferts today which helped with the yellowing. Here are the pics.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

My Ph in the buckets is a steady 6.8. I have had this happen before with 1 or 2 plants but not all of them all at once. This has me very confused. At first I thought they were over watered now I am not sure.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

massproducer said:
			
		

> Your hard water should not be a major problem, same with the ph, but chlorine is not your friend...



We have a well no city water or chlorine to worry about. This is the strangest thing.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

:bump:


----------



## Mutt

for the watering prob. seen many use a passive drip system ( or gravity feed) when doing hempy's  cheap way to curb underwatering


----------



## godspeedsuckah

The buckets are dripping, a couple were clogged, be back in a while, doing some last minute construction on the room.


----------



## massproducer

Just to clarify with you, have you followed all of my suggestions for amendments and amounts?  Was your coco throughly flushed and wetted prior to transplanting?  I need to know all of your amendments and what you are feeding


----------



## massproducer

Okay that makes total sense godspeed, because the indica with the huge leaves kind of looks a bit overwatered but without the drain hole clogged I have never had any overwatering proplems because once the coco is hydrated it will not takes more water then it can handle and then the perlite basically holds a lot more air then water, so the excess water literally just comes pouring out of the drain hole, it is kind of weird because when the coco is too wet it is almost like instantly that it starts pouring out.

So clear out those holes, maybe even make em a bit bigger and everything should be great


----------



## godspeedsuckah

massproducer said:
			
		

> Just to clarify with you, have you followed all of my suggestions for amendments and amounts?  Was your coco throughly flushed and wetted prior to transplanting?  I need to know all of your amendments and what you are feeding



The coco was flushed and steralized before use. The top 3 layers I used 2 cups of worm castings, 1 cup alfalfa meal, 1 tablespoon steamed bonemeal with those layers.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

massproducer said:
			
		

> Okay that makes total sense godspeed, because the indica with the huge leaves kind of looks a bit overwatered but without the drain hole clogged I have never had any overwatering proplems because once the coco is hydrated it will not takes more water then it can handle and then the perlite basically holds a lot more air then water, so the excess water literally just comes pouring out of the drain hole, it is kind of weird because when the coco is too wet it is almost like instantly that it starts pouring out.
> 
> So clear out those holes, maybe even make em a bit bigger and everything should be great



I pulled the drain tubes out and the water was dripping pretty good. I may leave them out so they can continue to drip tonight. I was also thinking of running distilled water through them but that may be overkill. They really do look over watered.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> I pulled the drain tubes out and the water was dripping pretty good. I may leave them out so they can continue to drip tonight. I was also thinking of running distilled water through them but that may be overkill. They really do look over watered.


you have drain tubes in bucket? why is this? might have airlock or obstruction blocking


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I had 1/2" pvc for a drain "tube" but I pulled them now I just have the 1/2" hole in the side.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

There is a slight improvement from yesterday, they are starting to perk up a little bit  The more I think about it there was a overwatering problem. I soaked the cubes and never rung out the excess water, and then continued to water. A mistake I never should have made to begin with but did, I guess it is part of getting use to something new. Hopefully they will be fine and take right off.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

youll be alright, dont sweat it


----------



## godspeedsuckah

they look pretty pathetic at the moment. I am misting them a few times a day just to give them something because they don't seem to be taking anything in. Hopefully in a few days they will pick up.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

just plain water or maybe kelp?


----------



## godspeedsuckah

A weak solution of Big Bloom and then plain water. They are picking up a little better today. I lifted the light to about 3' above them and increased the humidity in the closet. We will see what happens. Im willing to bet I don't make that mistake again


----------



## smokingjoe

have you tried foliar superthrive?


----------



## godspeedsuckah

No I haven't. I will do some reading on it. Thanks smokingjoe!!


----------



## godspeedsuckah

The plants are doing much better. I wrote earler either in my journal or in this one that I did a little lollypopping and haven't watered them in 4 days. I have been misting them and that has really helped them out. The ph is still 6.8, I am going to do some research on lowering it to around 6.0 - 6.2. Maybe by tomorrow morning they will get just a little bit of water to see how they react.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I have decided against using my tap water anymore until I get an RO system after new years. My ph is 8.0 and my ppm is through the roof. The brand of distilled water I buy has a ph of 6.3 and the ppm is nearly non-existent. The plants are beginning to perk up well, in a few days I will give them some food. I have started 12/12 they are on their 3rd day of it. The Northern Lights have been FIM'd since they will be much bigger than the Aurora Indica, and I only have 7' of closet height.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

hey godspeed..10 days since last pics,,could you please throw up some new pics..Im takeing in  all I can on these coco buckets..mass man should be back soon..Im very interested in this method..Thanks


----------



## godspeedsuckah

The short squat buggers are Aurora Indica and the 2 more sativa like are Northern Lights. You can see they are still recovering a little from the ph fluctuation and over watering but I do believe we are on the road to buddage soon 

Growth is stunted a little due to my mistakes, I think by next week they will have a huge improvement.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> The short squat buggers are Aurora Indica and the 2 more sativa like are Northern Lights. You can see they are still recovering a little from the ph fluctuation and over watering but I do believe we are on the road to buddage soon
> 
> Growth is stunted a little due to my mistakes, I think by next week they
> will have a huge improvement.


 

Thaught you couldnot over water in these buckets?  and They are in the stretch point of flower..looking forward to next weeks pics..KEEP M GREEN


----------



## godspeedsuckah

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> Thaught you couldnot over water in these buckets?  and They are in the stretch point of flower..looking forward to next weeks pics..KEEP M GREEN



Well you can overwater. I have learned that coco not only holds ALOT of water but it retains it longer than soil does too. I am having a tough time getting use to them but I think they will work out good. After the reveg I will be doing a couple clones in Ocean Forest as well.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

wasnt impressed with Ocean Forest soil..JMO..dont nobody go a bashing on me now..Like I said I am still learning this method..and waiting for *mass man* to step in..I know coco retains moister..did you happen to use to much in the "Layering" proccess?  I am putting one togather now to practice my self..and it seems to me that the top two Layers really only get a lot of coco..top "Layers mostley amendments?..Like I said Im still researching and Fallowing along here..thanks


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I measured the coco with a 1 pound butter dish. My first layer was 2 scoops of perlite. Next layer was 1.5 scoops perlite and .5 scoop of coco. Next layer was 1 scoop perlite, 1 scoop coco with 1 cup worm castings, .5 cup alfalfa meal, 2 tablespoons steamed bone meal. Next layer was .5 scoop perlite 1.5 scoop coco with 1.5 cup worm castings .5 cup alfalfa meal and 1 tablespoon steamed bone meal. Next layer was .25 scoop perlite 2.5 scoops coco 1 cup worm castings, .5 cup alfalfa meal, sprinkle coffee grounds and .5 tablespoon bone meal. Last layer was less than half the ammendments with just a tiny bit of perlite and all coco.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I think my biggest mistake is I did not squeeze the excess water out of the coco before I layered it and watered afterward. I think coco is awesome to grow in, I just had to fix the problem I created.


----------



## massproducer

Now the problem here was not the coco it was your plugged drain holes, i really do not think it is fair at all to say that the coco caused your problems or my bucket design contributed to the problem... Coco does not hold excess water, it holds just enough, not to much and not too little, the only time you can overwater these buckets is if the drain holes are not big enough and plug so that the water can not drain, which the pvc pipe in the drain hole did.

Your plants are starting to perk back up, they are actually looking rather good, but don't bash the buckets or coco because either caused this problem.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

massproducer said:
			
		

> Now the problem here was not the coco it was your plugged drain holes, i really do not think it is fair at all to say that the coco caused your problems or my bucket design contributed to the problem... Coco does not hold excess water, it holds just enough, not to much and not too little, the only time you can overwater these buckets is if the drain holes are not big enough and plug so that the water can not drain, which the pvc pipe in the drain hole did.
> 
> Your plants are starting to perk back up, they are actually looking rather good, but don't bash the buckets or coco because either caused this problem.



WOW relax. I wrote that "I think coco is awesome to grow in, I just had to fix the problem I created." Nobody is bashing anything, and I do not appreciate your very aggressive attitude over this. I created the problem and it is being fixed, it isnt a flaw in your design or a problem with the coco; and yes I do believe that it is possible to over water coco because when completely saturated it can retain an awful lot of moisture for a longer period of time than soil can. I am stating a fact not bashing this design.


----------



## lyfr

Just a thought, You keep saying "dripping out" and the water/nutes comes squirting out of my buckets and i only have a quarter inch hole...could your all perlite layer be below drain hole rather than slightly above it?  dont know if it would matter just seems like your water should be pourin outta the hole


----------



## godspeedsuckah

Yeah the perlite is above the hole and they are working fine. I for some reason thought I should have 1/2" pvc sticking out of the hole to help with the draining so I wouldn't have perlite coming out. It worked with the pvc just not as well as when I took it out.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

When you water the buckets do you water them until the excess is coming out the hole? I just saturate the buckets but not until the water is coming out.


----------



## lyfr

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> When you water the buckets do you water them until the excess is coming out the hole? I just saturate the buckets but not until the water is coming out.


 I always make sure i see it comin out since I drowned one The 3gal take about 32oz a day with maybe 6-10 comin back out.  I'm gettin excited, almost time to harvest my first MCB:hubba: 
View attachment 88762


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## godspeedsuckah

I will do that lyfr, thanks. I think a part of the problem I was having is my tap water (well water) ph is over 8.0; until I get an RO system I will just use distilled ph'd at 6.3. Nice Buds 

You said that your 3 gallon takes 32oz per day. Is the surface of the coco dry before you water or do you just water daily?


----------



## massproducer

Its all good godspeed, I just took exception to the remark that these buckets definately can be overwatered, which i just will dispute... With no problems with the drain hole, you can not overwater these buckets or coco in itself... You can, and i do totally saturate my coco almost everyday, so that the water builds up on top for a very breif second, and then it totally drains, it comes flying out of the drain hole... the coco DOES NOT even get mucky like soil does, it is more like a self regulating sponge, where it takes what it can handle while the excess just flows through with no chance of being absorbed

If you can understand why i would get somewhat upset and correct what I think was a slight mispreception then I don't really know...  it took a lot of research and hard work to come up with and test my buckets, and I have no problem with any problems that we as a community can work through but to just say they can be overwatered when there was a deviation from the original design is not fair, especially if this is being said to someone contemplating running these buckets...  I admitt i really shouldn't have flew off so quick but understand these are my babies and as such I am the only one that can truly defend them whole heartedly...

But my bad, happy growing


----------



## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT

*Hey MP ya might have made a mistake but they are bouncing right back and looking good.  *


----------



## [email protected]

hey MP and everyone useing MP buckets, i just wanted to share this with everyone theyre called earth box's... heres a link to theyre website,and they explain the earthbox
hxxp://www.earthbox.com/consumer/instructions.html#stepone..
i thought theyre were a couple intresting things on earthbox that could benefit MP coco buckets also.
heres a couple ideas that i stole from my moms earthboxes
Eb uses a feed tube this tube goes down into the reservoir and i think it must help exchange the old stale water faster
Eb uses black tarp so you have no soil showing, creating less insect problems
EB uses rectangle boxes 
again from what i read theyre is nothing wrong with MP coco buckets, these are just simple suggestions.


 ive never grown mj in this design but i do have to water moms garden every month when shes gone, so i do use these earth box's just not on a normal basis.


----------



## lyfr

massproducer said:
			
		

> Its all good godspeed, I just took exception to the remark that these buckets definately can be overwatered, which i just will dispute... With no problems with the drain hole, you can not overwater these buckets or coco in itself... You can, and i do totally saturate my coco almost everyday, so that the water builds up on top for a very breif second, and then it totally drains, it comes flying out of the drain hole... the coco DOES NOT even get mucky like soil does, it is more like a self regulating sponge, where it takes what it can handle while the excess just flows through with no chance of being absorbed
> 
> If you can understand why i would get somewhat upset and correct what I think was a slight mispreception then I don't really know... it took a lot of research and hard work to come up with and test my buckets, and I have no problem with any problems that we as a community can work through but to just say they can be overwatered when there was a deviation from the original design is not fair, especially if this is being said to someone contemplating running these buckets... I admitt i really shouldn't have flew off so quick but understand these are my babies and as such I am the only one that can truly defend them whole heartedly...
> 
> But my bad, happy growing


geez Mass, your always jumpin on everyone  ,  my limited experience with MP buckets reflects this exactly.  I do water mine atleast 5-6 times a week, till i see water squirt out.  I kinda thought i had to water them every day to airate...and like the rockwool...if you can't overwater why not blast em' with some fresh each day


----------



## lyfr

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> You said that your 3 gallon takes 32oz per day. Is the surface of the coco dry before you water or do you just water daily?


This is in flower for the record...and surface is not totally dry each day.  I made kindof a little mote that circles plant,  maybe2in wide and a half in deep,  that stays wet but the rest dries.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I will start watering them how both you and mass water yours. I wasn't sure if I should run that much through but now I can see it will be fine. I will stock up on my distilled tonight and get to it tomorrow morning.


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## godspeedsuckah

My apologies massproducer, now I understand the concept. It takes a while for something to sink into my head. I take back what I wrote, you really CANT overwater these buckets. I just ran 4 gallons of distilled water (ph 6.3) through the buckets until 10 - 15% run off occurred and checked on them a few hours later and those plants have not been happier!! I was treating them like a soil grow when they are not soil at all, they really are hydroponic. Now I need to invest in an RO machine soon, I never realized how much water they actually need this way. I will be investing in distilled until I can get an RO system.


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## massproducer

no apologies needed, trust me it is a learning curve for us all, i think that once you get the waterings down, you will really like these, because it really does bring hydro and soil together...

I am happy to see everything seems to be working better for ya now, just wait until they really take off, and ya start seeing the root hairs growing up throught the coco, i think that is one of the coolest things i have ever seen because roots usually grow with gravity, but coco can even defy gravity, mahhaahaa, lol


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I was off to a bumpy start but I really believe they are going to be twice the plants next week. I will put pics up tomorrow and you can see the difference in just a couple days. I need to start fertilizing now, I will use Big Bloom, Tiger Bloom, open sesame and molasses shortly; next watering. I do feel like it is all coming together now  Should be a real good winter  Thanks.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I checked on my plants this morning and the growth rate is unbelievable; I have not seen this much growth ever in previous grows. Tomorrow they will get 1/4 strength feeding with 3 tablespoons molasses. I will post pics tonight, you never would guess they are the same plants.


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## docfishwrinkle

they are fricken crazy wait til u get 6" plus in one day! no joke. think ill though pics up thur @ 8wk. ur in for a ride. ive multiple colas @ 12-14". only thing is b prepared 4 jungle growth. next time ill keep in mind cause im limited to 3x3x5 area of grow area & im beyond maxed w/ 6 - 2.5gal bucks. they are actually choking eachother out. in a month or so im doing a scrog w/ nirvana citral, after i do some mods & cleaning. keep ur eyes peeled 4 GJ.


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## godspeedsuckah

I wrote this morning that I could not believe the growth overnight. I finally understand how the system works and am installing an RO system in my house tonight so I can take full advantage of these buckets and save me som $$ with distilled water. I did not water them today but I will be tomorrow morning. This is just 1 day after a good leeching with distilled. They are going to amaze me!!!


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## docfishwrinkle

hold onto ur pants & sharpen that machete!


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## godspeedsuckah

:headbang:


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## bombbudpuffa

I grew this a while back after first running across Hempys bucket. The res was filled with hydroton or expanded clay balls. The medium above the res was just Promix with added myco. White Rhino is the strain. I couldn't believe this lil container grew such a monster.


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## godspeedsuckah

Dang bombud you never cease to amaze.


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## 4u2sm0ke

11/17  Monday

Hey mass man&#8230;been Fallowing along as you Know &#8230;well I have decide to give one a try Now. .I used a cat Liter container ..I find that these and Grow bags fit my setup the best.and their will be minimum Altercations to  my Grow room..I like Docfish&#8217;s  setup.  He has a Pan under all his buckets. .I can do this in summer.  Right now I have this in the front of Veg. Okay heres what Ive done so far..Besides researching &#8220;Bee pollen&#8221; for the past Month or so..lol.. Now I know the  great Benefits it has for the Human consumption. And the antioxydents. But nothing  yet on soil amendmant..I  Have 5 Hives myself but realy  only for pollenation. .of fruit farms..Good side Money too. BTW, .Got tired of the Honey process&#8230;.which Brings Me to My first question.. would ther be better bennafits of using my Raw Honey in place of the Back strap?  


Cat liter bucket&#8230;drilled hole 3 inches up. .filled bucket bucket  1&#8221; over drain hole with perlite..I use a Folgers coffee can as measure and it makes a nice scooper..

1st Layer..3 scoops Perlite.. 3 scoops coco..

2nd Layer&#8230;.2 scoops perlite..2  & 1/2scoops coco..1/2scoop spent coffee grinds. 1 scoop worm poo...2 TBL spoon Kelp meal..Fish meal,Alfalfa meal..and  

3rd Layer&#8230;1 scoop perlite..3 & ½  scoops coco..1 scoop worm poo..1/2 Scoop  spent coffee grinds 2 TBL spoons Kelp, fish, and Alfalfa meal,  1 TBL spoon &#8220; Bee Pollen&#8221;

4th Layer..  ½ scoop perlite..5  scoops coco..1/2 scoop spent coffee  grind @ TBL spoons Kelp,fish,Alfalfa and 1 TBL spoon &#8220;Bee pollen&#8221;

Top Layer will be all coco coir


Transfer my clone and  Gave  1 quart of my Tea..(worm castings..Tagro mix..black mushroom compost, sea weed)  I use a paint strainer bag.. and fallowed your method of  making tea&#8230;.Thanks

11/18

Today is day one. Mass &#8230;..please tell me why I added &#8220;Bee Pollen&#8221; .I am stumped.. also..you say you use these for  flower..do you not Veg these?  I have height  restriction&#8217;s in Veg room right now..and when should I put her in Flower room?  I have 7 feet.of height ..and Harvest..first soil grow this Fall..But in the meantime I can bring my bucket to my light..then back down.. I enjoyed making this bucket..just as I do my soils..and am anxious to see the EXPLOSION!!!  I think I  may have found my medium  between hydro/soil.  That sounds great to me..I love working with organics in Veggie garden and have been pleased with the results I get..but am always looking to improve. .Thanks mass man.. you truly are an ASSET to this community..

My Bucket has odor elimanating carbon..lol


KEEP M GREEN


----------



## massproducer

Everything is looking great smoke...  I do veg my plants but i have been revegging clones and not keeping Mums lately as to save space, and I usually just let the clone root and reveg in a plastic or styrofoam cup in a larger sized rubbermaid container...  when I run out of space or feel that the plants are ready I transplant them into full sized buckets and start flowering...  I would say that you do not want to flower anything too small or immutare but you also want to take into consideration that these buckets can honestly get out of control very quickly as for the growth rate, so you want to keep in mind that your plants will probably stretch, but in a good way, more then soil, a lot more then soil, because during the stretch they seem to really take off,, it is almost like they do not want to stop growing...  so just keep that in mind, I would plan for them to triple during flower, they may not quite triple but there is a very real possibility that they could...

As for the bees pollen, I like to use it for a variety of reasons, firstly because in coco we are trying to harbour as diverse a community of microbes and fungi as possible with the medium... Each grain of pollen comes with its own set of benefical microbes and fungi, which helps break down our organics so our roots can eat
Sceondly, pollen is basically almost half protein, which protein breaks down into amino acids, amino-acids are the building blocks to all life and are very hard to come by in natural organic forms...  some very high priced pro nutrient formulas now use amino acids in their formula's with great success, to name two are big Bud and connie, from advanced nutrients...  Basically pollen in itself is a complete food source and contains everything you or your plant needs to sustain life...
Thirdly because of all of its antioxidant, vitiman and hormone profiles

This is something in which there isn't much concreate evidence as to how bees pollen helps plants, so i have to use logic and anadotal evidence, as well as the research from my own experiments, but so far I am very pleased.

The honey is not as good an idea, because the honey unlike the pollen, has strong anti-fungial properties which would hinder the growth our beneficals, and honey doesn't quite have the same amount of nutrients as blackstrap, if it is possible, then I would try to go for the blackstrap...

Lastly, with your bucket, make sure it never gets too dry, I mean it can dry out on top but try not to let it get too dry and DO Not TREAT IT LIKE SOIL, treat em like hydro, my coco on top usually looks like it was watered not long ago, and feels kind of spongie


----------



## solarz

MassP,
I was just wondering if the fact that using coco changes the feeding regime of the plants.  what i mean by this is...when i use a soiless mix enriched with things like fish, kelp, and alfalfa meals, guanos, castings, etc...i typically just feed straight water with LK and molasses throughout the entire grow.  This allows the amendments to break down for the plant to use...without burning the plants.  I have noticed that people are usin your coco buckets, which already have amendments included, while STILL feeding a variaty of teas.  To me, this would burn the plants pretty bad, unless the coco actually has something to do with it??

I'm thinking it has something to do with the statements you made about coco only releasing what needs to be released...while holding/keeping everything that is plentiful within the "soil" mix???  This is just a guess...but i would like a little bit of info about it if you wouldn't mind (or anyone else who knows).  

I made the switch to your coco buckets a week ago Friday...and everything seems to be going good.  I have one plant (which i'm still trying to sex) that i burned while still in veg...but the new growth is lookin really good.  I'll get some pics up later when the lights come back on.  

Thanks,
solarz


----------



## solarz

Is it ok to transplant into the coco buckets after putting a plant (in a regular pot) into flower to determine sex first?  I ask b/c i recently found out that BOTH plants i put into flower in a coco bucket turned out to be MALES.  So i was wondering if i could place them in flower until they show sex, then transplant into the coco buckets...in an effort to not waste the buckets?  Thanks in advance.

solarz


----------



## massproducer

yeah you can no problem, i myself just do not like to transplant once i start flowering, but it can be done no problem


----------



## Mutt

heard a lil rumor tho mass...thought maybe you could help me out in disproving or proving it. had a reputable peep once tell me that sats will still grow root mass at a much faster rate than indies. that after flower started was not much use in xplant an indie, but true sats would benefit more so.
I have only done sats outdoors yrs ago...haven't had the pleasure of going a really heavy dom ID yet. just wondering. sorry for rambling, just wondering if you had info on that. been googling but you know how specific questions being answered go on the internet 

thank for any input everyone else too.


----------



## massproducer

Yes I would agree with that...  I actually find that really strong sat doms will actually continue to actively grow roots almost right up until harvest...  While most indi's basically stop there real root growth about 3 weeks or so into flowering, They start to focus all of their energy on budding, which more makes use of the developed root system to feed, while some sat's will want to keep spitting out foliage and then filling that foliage in as they go

IMO, indi's have more defined growing characteristics, while sat's can be all over the place, I think that is one thing that makes true sat's so hard to grow, even for very experienced gardeners, it is always a guessing game with sat's... but I'm starting to ramble off topic

Basically, IMO, anytime foliage is still growing, the roots are probably still growing too support the new foliage...  When i say foliage I don't mean bud leaves, i mean the huge fingered fan leaves that sat's never seem to stop spitting out


----------



## massproducer

Well guys, sadly this is going to have to come to an end...  this will be the last day that I update this or any other post...

For those of you that understand effort and hard work, it has truly been a pleasure...  I will always continue my quest for knowledge and understanding of our beloved plants and will still be able to be reached by PM for a while for any questions or concerns, or you can send me a pm to chat about the future...

I am sorry that it has had to come to this but a person can only really take so much disrespect before they get fed up...  I know you have no clue what I am talking about, but thats all good... those that do, haha good one


Peace Out


----------



## Hick

Let's not allow this to bleed drama out on the forum folks.
  If need be, we'll close the thread.
  I'm sorry that mass' feels that he has not been given his due respect. I'm sory that we cannot please everyone, all of the time.


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## 4u2sm0ke

okay mass man...I respect you my friend and will do as you ask..because I need your help


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## docfishwrinkle

later until we can cross paths again my friend...


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## docfishwrinkle

well thought id post what these coco's did for me & w/ some more experimenting & getting used to em they will be truely amazing. i already posted in my GJ so heres the link http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26436


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## godspeedsuckah

The buckets have been great for me as well doc. I had a few bumps in the road because of my own doing. Now it seems so long as I don't over fertilize them they just explode. After all of this I have 1 AI girl and 1 NL girl. So long as all goes well I will reveg them if they are good smoke and keep them around for a while.


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## docfishwrinkle

whats up GSS? throw up some porn gotta see it!


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## Thorn

I'm really sad to see you leave mass, you have brought a lot of knowledge and good advice to many of us here...you are one of our teachers  Good luck in what you decide to do, I hope everything turns out ok for you  I will send you a pm in a mo.


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## 4u2sm0ke

Here is Mine..Hope to hear from you massproduccer..I have had some new growth and feel its about to take off..I put 2 quarts of water threw it everyday..the smell is bad..lol..This poor girk been threw heck  but hope she does well..lol..This is fun.. 


anyone doing these and want to add their thaughts..I would like to hear them..


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## docfishwrinkle

$*%&[email protected]#[email protected] aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i effin hate when u type a fricken book go to post & guess effen what, poof entry disappear. this happens all to often. anybody know why? be nice 2 get fixed!!!!!!!!

anyhow wuz up 4u? well i forget what i was goin 2 ask now........... oh yeah are those droplets on the leaves? if so what r u foliar feeding? im lazy right now, but were u having probs w/ buckets? i know GSS had watering issue. what nutes u giving "her"? ok nuf ?'s. later...

stay stoned

DFW


----------



## godspeedsuckah

When my wife get's back with the camera I will put up some pics again. I am having an issue with the new growth being a pale green. I have added a small amount of worm castings and steamed bone meal to the surface to let it leech down in. That is only on the sativa looking "northern lights" one lol. Still haven't heard back from them on that, I do believe they mixed up my seeds. Hopefully it is a killer sativa. I tied her down some more today. lol.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> $*%&[email protected]#[email protected] aaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! i effin hate when u type a fricken book go to post & guess effen what, poof entry disappear. this happens all to often. anybody know why? be nice 2 get fixed!!!!!!!!
> 
> anyhow wuz up 4u? well i forget what i was goin 2 ask now........... oh yeah are those droplets on the leaves? if so what r u foliar feeding? im lazy right now, but were u having probs w/ buckets? i know GSS had watering issue. what nutes u giving "her"? ok nuf ?'s. later...
> 
> stay stoned
> 
> DFW


 

Thanks Doc...I dont folior feed..I had just treated for mites ( neem oil )  and i have yet to give any nutes..just 6.6 PH water every day..the run off is still brown and stinks..lol..do you think i should start giveing nutes?  I use all 6 Fox Farm nutes..not sure on feeding schedual  other then what I have read here..If I give 2 quarts of water everyday..would i add nutes to every other day then?  Im use to soil and allowing the soil to dry..andy and all help or suggestions are welcome..   Thanks Doc..

I only have problems with the server busy  when i type a book  :rofl:


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## docfishwrinkle

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> Thanks Doc...I dont folior feed..I had just treated for mites ( neem oil ) and i have yet to give any nutes..just 6.6 PH water every day..the run off is still brown and stinks..lol..do you think i should start giveing nutes? I use all 6 Fox Farm nutes..not sure on feeding schedual other then what I have read here..If I give 2 quarts of water everyday..would i add nutes to every other day then? Im use to soil and allowing the soil to dry..andy and all help or suggestions are welcome.. Thanks Doc..
> 
> I only have problems with the server busy when i type a book :rofl:


 
how long have u had these plants in buckets? see when i transplanted into these buckets my root ball was placed on the top of res layer so in about 1 wk roots were swimming in res. i didnt have any stagnant water sitting in res. it was my understanding that need to water in small increments often but not give "full" waterings til roots hit res. i never once checked ph of runoff or water or soil @ anytime b/c of natural buffer of coco. as far as nutes i used all 6 f.f. also once a week. during stretch i watered every day about 1/2 gal. after stretch i watered as follows:

note:all water has been aerated min. 24-48hrs. molasses 1tblsp/gal

mon-molasses/ro

tue-no water, mixed water,nutes, & molasses bubbled for 2 days

wed-no water - i like to starve girls for 2 days b/4 nutes so they eat all their food :hubba: 

thur-feed 48 hr tea mixed on tue

fri-no water

sat-molasses/ro

sun-no water

hopefully this will help. i dont know if this is the best way but its mine 
next grow will probably vary lil, im going all organic & not sure about what my plan is. any info on how often i can use a "tea" would be good.

 stay pie eyed  

DFW


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Thanks Doc..its been 3 weeks now..Im learning with this one  and your saying i shouldnt add water everyday?  I thaught i was in order to agitate the water..lol..i will stop for a day or two..and wait to hear from you  or mass man..lol..and :watchplant:


----------



## pcduck

It was my understanding that the final layer(or bottom 3 inches) was to act like an aquifer. If this is right, a aquifer is an underground  river of water, which is always flowing.JMO But I could have misinterpreted it also. So saying all that, I would water everyday.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

yeah my wording is a lil screwy, sorry bout that. water every day when the roots are making their way to the res. water just enough to keep coco wet but not to allow water to flood res at this time. this will help w/ stagnant water issue. once roots hits res then i watered daily. flood res frome here on out. i flipped 12/12 when res had roots. after stretch i watered @ wk schedule above.

how far down in the bucket was bottom of root ball when transplanted?


----------



## miketheman

Hey mass I was gonna do the coco bucket thing, But my cat used all my coco that was drying out in a rubbermaid for a litter box. I was so pissed. So I just did dwc instead. I still wanna try this and was wondering how it would do compared with dwc, because my dwc is rocking! Maybee I could keep some mothers in coco buckets. Do you think that would work? Can I use my GH flora nutes for moms in coco?


----------



## gmo

Dang dude!  I sent you a PM earlier today and hadn't heard back from you, then realized I hadn't seen you post in a while.  I'm really bummed out to hear you are done here, what a downer.  I really appreciate everything that you personally taught me while you were here, the help you gave was priceless, and I for one will really miss having your insight on this forum.  Good luck with your journeys.


----------



## 215zealot

hey if im using coco coir + hydroclay how often should i water plants and how many fluid ounces do you reccomend?? im using lucas formular and im in 1st week of flowering.


----------



## solarz

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> The buckets have been great for me as well doc. I had a few bumps in the road because of my own doing. Now it seems so long as I don't over fertilize them they just explode. After all of this I have 1 AI girl and 1 NL girl. So long as all goes well I will reveg them if they are good smoke and keep them around for a while.



I think that i have or am over fertilizing.  I'm either burning the mess out of the plants, or i'm starving them somehow...but i'm thinking its the burn.  I have them in a coco bucket with amended soil (high P guano, greensand, kelp, etc) and i was also feeding them a flowing guano tea (because i thought that the coco would absorb what wasn't needed and release whatever was needed).  Needless to say, i think that this has severly burned my plants, so my question is...should i flush, should i just start giving straight water from here on out, or what?  I'm on my 4th week of flowering and am only seein the issues on the older fan leaves, and just a few of the buding leaves.  Any help would be greatly appreciated.  

Also after flushing amended soil, will there be a need to start feeding nutes (because the amendments all got flushed away??)? Thanks in advance.

solarz


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

pics 4U 


Thanks mass man..


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

okay  im wanting to know if this can be kept as a mother plant..and if so  How long ?  or am I supose to flower her all ready?  she is starting to grow fast..I had a problem with my PH  but have got it back under control.  oh  and as you can see.. Ive done some LST on her..Thanks for all the help..:bolt::bong:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> okay im wanting to know if this can be kept as a mother plant..and if so How long ? or am I supose to flower her all ready? she is starting to grow fast..I had a problem with my PH but have got it back under control. oh and as you can see.. Ive done some LST on her..Thanks for all the help..:bolt::bong:


 
4u2 i would say def on keeping as mom. i do know that coco supposedly will last couple years @ least b4 it breaks down. dont forget to flush those salts though. im gonna to try also but prolly not til april. keep us posted on results. when they start growing fast you better hold on. thats why i think coco would be awesome from moms pumpin out clones 2 have a nice perpetual grow. i have a ? 4u, 4u2. why are you worried bout ph in coco? ive always had prob w/ low ph & since i went coco havent checked or even thought about. im all giddy like a school girl now, i cant wait to see ur results. this bub im smoking gets me that way also.........so i gotta jet:lama:


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Thanks Doc..Im glad to hear I can keep her as Mother..she is growing very Fast..as for the PH  I checked a while back  and it was 7.6  and not sure how. But is now down to 6.5  do I need to worry about rootbound with these?  Useally  I only been keeping them long enough to get rooted clones  then I flower them...When I flower  do I continue the water  then feed  then water  then feed..on daily basis?  Ive read this thread so many times  I forgot..:rofl: Thanks for the help  and I will be asking for you again..Thanks :bolt::bong:


----------



## solarz

Honestly 4u2smoke,
i would really go back and try to read the first couple of post that MassP made about the cation exchange with coco.  I have been using a coco bucket and i was also feeding a flower nute tea...and i severely burned one of my plants.  I would also get in touch with godspeedsucka and ask him to explain to you the way that coco works.  I think that we have had the same problems, but he will probably be able to explain it to you better.

IME/O, i'd stay away from using flowering nutes...except for maybe using a few worm castings every now.  Feed the plant what it asks for/needs.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

:watchplant:


:bolt::bong:


----------



## leafminer

Good lookin plants. I'm going to try this reservoir method myself next grow. I do rate coco, very easy and productive medium to use.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> Thanks Doc..Im glad to hear I can keep her as Mother..she is growing very Fast..as for the PH I checked a while back and it was 7.6 and not sure how. But is now down to 6.5 do I need to worry about rootbound with these? Useally I only been keeping them long enough to get rooted clones then I flower them...When I flower do I continue the water then feed then water then feed..on daily basis? Ive read this thread so many times I forgot..:rofl: Thanks for the help and I will be asking for you again..Thanks :bolt::bong:


 
sure youll still get root bound eventually. imo 5g bucket would be sufficient for long term mom. about youre nutes, just feed once a wk. like u would w/ any other method of growing. i think in this thread i outlined my feeding schedule. ill look & if its not here ill find & link 4 u


----------



## docfishwrinkle

4u2 my outlined feeding schedule is on pg 12 post #236. i noticed ur girls r def exploding. good job mang! keep it up! i wonder what GSS is doin? i havent seen any pics of his coco. i know he has a new baby, but i need to see some of his work in progress.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

Hey doc, how are things? I ended up killing the NL, she was just way too out of control. I have 1 Aurora Indica lady who is doing real well. Here are a couple pics of her @ 29 days flowering. 

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95472&d=1230983499

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95473&d=1230983499

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95474&d=1230983499

I am going to keep her in this 5 gallon MP bucket for a reveg and one more flowering after I harvest some buds in about 5 weeks or so. If she is still going real well I was thinking about cutting the 5 gallon in half and sinking it part way into one of those big plastic tubs you can get at Walmart. That should give her enough root space for a year or two  All is well, hope all is well with you too.


----------



## massproducer

Looking very good guys, Doc i see that you have continued our work, I am very impressed, I knew that I left everything in the right hands, lol

4u2smoke look at those little bushy monsters, haha, good work, make me proud


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

massproducer said:
			
		

> Looking very good guys, Doc i see that you have continued our work, I am very impressed, I knew that I left everything in the right hands, lol
> 
> 4u2smoke look at those little bushy monsters, haha, good work, make me proud


 
:ciao:  my friend  and its good to see you...I pm you a few times  but  never heard back..hope is all well..I am likeing these very much and am trying my Hardest to make you proud!!!  I have another one I made for the clones I have in you bubble cloner..thanks for that too ( you know)  and the explosion  has happened..i am going to do a side by side  with soil and this *mass* *bucket* but know that your bucket will out perform my soil bucket. this will be interesting..i think  and this is just my stoned brain..that the soil plant will grow faster then the mass bucket..untill the mass bucket roots hits that res..i want to thank  *Docfish* for sticking with me..and *solarz*  for getting me to straighten out head on cation exchange..this next bucket will be even better Im sure..   and will continue it in this thread if you dont mind..thanks massproduccer..you truely are an ASSET to this Community :bolt::bong:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> Hey doc, how are things? I ended up killing the NL, she was just way too out of control. I have 1 Aurora Indica lady who is doing real well. Here are a couple pics of her @ 29 days flowering.
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95472&d=1230983499
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95473&d=1230983499
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=95474&d=1230983499
> 
> I am going to keep her in this 5 gallon MP bucket for a reveg and one more flowering after I harvest some buds in about 5 weeks or so. If she is still going real well I was thinking about cutting the 5 gallon in half and sinking it part way into one of those big plastic tubs you can get at Walmart. That should give her enough root space for a year or two  All is well, hope all is well with you too.


 
GSS i knew u might chime in! hope all is well in ur world. AI is looking great. ur plan w/ cutting bucket off is excellent. u  might think aboiut trash can if you doint have height restrictions. well either way u do keep us informed w/ lots of pics. take it sleezy.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

massproducer said:
			
		

> Looking very good guys, Doc i see that you have continued our work, I am very impressed, I knew that I left everything in the right hands, lol
> 
> 4u2smoke look at those little bushy monsters, haha, good work, make me proud


 
mass its great 2 hear from u! as far as "right" hands dont know about that but im trying. im more like 2 left hands, lol. unfortunately im being forced 2 take a "break" from my new found hobby . ol lady 4 whatever reason got sketched out. dont know why, but lil by lil i will convince her eventually. im going 2b making mods to room while i wait 4 go ahead:hubba: . im bummed cause i was stoked bout coco scrog i had planned. oh well soon enough. take care & be careful. whats in ur room at mo?


----------



## docfishwrinkle

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> i want to thank *Docfish* for sticking with me...


 
4u thanks! isnt this why we r here in this lil community, to give & recieve info to put us all on that plataeu of accomplishment. sorry 4 not remembering, but have u flipped lights yet? if so how long ago? if not b prepared for insane growth in 2 wk stretch. lol


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> 4u thanks! isnt this why we r here in this lil community, to give & recieve info to put us all on that plataeu of accomplishment. sorry 4 not remembering, but have u flipped lights yet? if so how long ago? if not b prepared for insane growth in 2 wk stretch. lol


 

:rofl:...I just PM you...I have my setup in my shed..so I have diffrent rooms..Veg area 4 x 6 1800watts MH..flower room 4x6 2 @ 1000HPS..and yes as I stated in the PM  I am at week one 12/12  and Im affraid she is going to take up Half my flower room:holysheep: ..maybe I should not have done LST..:rofl:


----------



## kebnekajse

hi mp and everyone else doing buckets!

first of all: very well-written guide. informative and easy to understand. it sound a bit too good to be true, but since people tried it and like it, i assume it really works. 

i'm starting to plan my next grow that i will start in about 3 or so weeks. it all depends on how quick i will build my new box/closet. but i will def try your bucket style of growing, but not excactly what you do. 

first of all, i'm having trouble finding all the things you put in your coco. second, since i'm not that experienced, i don't have a clue at what depth the roots have grown in what time. third, i'm scared of doing the medium wrong from start since it would be hard tho fix. but you mix the coco with organic nutes just because you like it, not because it's necessary, right? 

i will however do layers with different ratios of perlite/coco just as you described. the layering is because the roots specialize in different theings, some take up water, some take up nutes. i will use canna coco nutes + some pk13/14.

have i got the basic idea right?


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

:ciao: *kebnekajse*.:welcome:...I just read this thread  like 100  times  and just did as I have been told..just get it going and these guys will help..I will do what i can..and be patient  *massproducer *pops in...*Docfish *and *Godspseed*..are here as well..  Good luck  Mine is week 2 of flower:bolt::bong:


*Doc*...she is Loveing the feed schedual...will post pics Next weekend  stretch should be done...oh..and she is takeing up half my flower room ..


----------



## godspeedsuckah

kebnekajse said:
			
		

> hi mp and everyone else doing buckets!
> 
> first of all: very well-written guide. informative and easy to understand. it sound a bit too good to be true, but since people tried it and like it, i assume it really works.
> 
> i'm starting to plan my next grow that i will start in about 3 or so weeks. it all depends on how quick i will build my new box/closet. but i will def try your bucket style of growing, but not excactly what you do.
> 
> first of all, i'm having trouble finding all the things you put in your coco. second, since i'm not that experienced, i don't have a clue at what depth the roots have grown in what time. third, i'm scared of doing the medium wrong from start since it would be hard tho fix. but you mix the coco with organic nutes just because you like it, not because it's necessary, right?
> 
> i will however do layers with different ratios of perlite/coco just as you described. the layering is because the roots specialize in different theings, some take up water, some take up nutes. i will use canna coco nutes + some pk13/14.
> 
> have i got the basic idea right?



I amended my buckets with everything and then had some problems. I may be wrong here but it is my belief that you do not need to add any of these amendments and the reason for this is that you really don't know what the plant is eating if you do this. When I reveg this AI girl I am going to use the same bucket style but with no ammendments. I will have the reservoir in the bottom and mix in some perlite with the coco but I will not add anything else. I will be running my ph at 5.8 and feeding the coco with botanicare nutrients. I think the plants would grow better without all the ammendments. JMHO. 

Your roots are going to grow insanely quick and you will be watering your plants once a day. In coco ph is very crucial. I don't care what you hear you need to monitor your ph and keep it around 5.8 - 6.0. If you are using tap water than you need to check your EC and PH. 

Coco is great to grow in and the results do outperform soil IF, and I can't stress IIIIFFFFFFFF enough, you have all your conditions correct. If you are going to feed the canna line of nutrients than I would not add anything else to the coco. Coco is not the magic answer to everything and it does not buffer everything perfectly; trust me if your ph is off you will know it


----------



## kebnekajse

nice to hear that i will be able to grow with plain coco/perlite and canna nutes. 

good yoy told me about ph aswell, i would have gone for a bit higher, 6,2-6,8 cause that is what i thought it should be. and yeah, i learned about the importance of ph the hard way...


----------



## massproducer

The amendments serve a very important function, which is to regulate the cation exchange rates as coco like to release k, but likes to absorb ca, nitrogen and magnesium, if you do not take this into account then you will have problems with those three things...

Honestly godspeed it sounds like you never throughly rinsed you coco, which would mean that it was full of salts, potassium salts to be exact which will lock everything out, but trust me using ORGANIC amendments is not what your problem was, organic amendments take time to break down and become availible for the roots to use, the roots do not eat the amendments, the microbes eat the organics and then the roots eat the microbial waste...

But it is very important to throughly wash your coco before you use it, because as I stated many times coco floats in salty sea water until harvested and it also naturally has high levels of K, which the k is not the problem it is the salt from the sea water.


----------



## kebnekajse

massproducer said:
			
		

> The amendments serve a very important function, which is to regulate the cation exchange rates as coco like to release k, but likes to absorb ca, nitrogen and magnesium, if you do not take this into account then you will have problems with those three things...



so a worst case scenario is k-poisoning at the same time as ca,n and mg-def?

but isn't this the reason that you use coco nutes instead of soil nutes? i just asumed it was, or does coco behave different than soil in other ways aswell?

the only things you mention that i can get a hold of without ordering from abroad is wormcastings, guano and moldy coffeegrinds (i drink LOTS of really stronk coffee). but that won't do for N, or will it?

never seen kelp/blood meel etc. 

thanks for taking your time to educate us.


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## massproducer

honestly all you need is your grinds for the Nitrogen, and eggshells for calcium, some epsom salt from walmart for MG and then just feed with a coco based nute...

Yeah the coco nutes contain more organic, n, mg and K, but you will find that it can take about a week or two to fix the cation rates without amending, which is a week that your plants could be growing...  But hey all we can do is work with what we have...  So pick up what you can, and I will help you work with what you have


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

and   *solarZ  *reminded me to go back and read the first few pages again on cation exchange..I use Fox Farm nutes  which is organic accept for tiger Bloom..My Next Bucket i plan to be all Organic..by makeing my own Teas

*massproducer*...we :heart: ya man


----------



## kebnekajse

great news mp!

of course i can see the benefits of a week growing instead of a week looking sad cause my medium is warming up.

i can easily get a hold of those things.

can't wait to start, just have to build my new box first. i'm gonna have so much fun!


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## massproducer

good luck bro, keep us tuned in


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## godspeedsuckah

massproducer said:
			
		

> The amendments serve a very important function, which is to regulate the cation exchange rates as coco like to release k, but likes to absorb ca, nitrogen and magnesium, if you do not take this into account then you will have problems with those three things...
> 
> Honestly godspeed it sounds like you never throughly rinsed you coco, which would mean that it was full of salts, potassium salts to be exact which will lock everything out, but trust me using ORGANIC amendments is not what your problem was, organic amendments take time to break down and become availible for the roots to use, the roots do not eat the amendments, the microbes eat the organics and then the roots eat the microbial waste...
> 
> But it is very important to throughly wash your coco before you use it, because as I stated many times coco floats in salty sea water until harvested and it also naturally has high levels of K, which the k is not the problem it is the salt from the sea water.



Yes I washed my coco very well before I used it. I am not even going to bother with this. I would not use epsom salts in your coco. Every coco thread I have seen states you do not use epsom salts at all in coco. Pick up some calmag + and do yourself a favor.


----------



## massproducer

bro, look at the main ingredients in calmag, Calcium Nitrate, Magnesium Nitrate, Iron EDTA,  These are all chemicals, and stronger chemicals then epsom salt, lol, why would you not add epsom salt to your coco, once again look at any good coco nutrient and look at the ingredients, tell me do you happen to see Magnesium Sulphate, which is epsom salt...  It is funny that you seem to be the one who has had the most problems, and if you go back through this thread you can clearly see that you have already *admitted* that you were not following the instructions listed in the thread, so honestly, take it somewhere else, start your own thread or whatever, but please stay out of mine because all you do and have done is muddle the waters...  Its really not worth it with people like you, the set it and forget its, of the world. good riddens


----------



## massproducer

thats a good one, don't use epsom salt, it is just in every coco nutrient availible, like canna coco, monkey juice and house and garden coco


----------



## massproducer

last but note least:

In agriculture and gardening, magnesium sulfate is used to correct magnesium deficiency in soil (magnesium is an essential element in the chlorophyll molecule). It is most commonly applied to potted plants, or to magnesium-hungry crops, such as potatoes, roses, tomatoes, and peppers. The advantage of magnesium sulfate over other magnesium soil amendments (such as dolomitic lime) is its high solubility.

Anhydrous magnesium sulfate is commonly used as a desiccant in organic synthesis due to its affinity for water. During work-up, an organic phase is saturated with magnesium sulfate until it no longer forms clumps. The hydrated solid is then removed with filtration or decantation. Other inorganic sulfate salts such as sodium sulfate and calcium sulfate may also be used in the same way.


----------



## SmokinMom

This is an informative post on Massproducers coco buckets.  Lets keep it that way.  Thanks.


----------



## kebnekajse

well, today i started looking in regular gardencenters instead of shops with a more "shady" profile. and, ta-da! bloodmeal, kelp, fishemulsion... why, oh why, do i make things so hard on my self all the time.

dirt cheap aswell. 

well, now i'm of to repott my basil, rosemary and coriander ( i guess you call it cilantro though). have a nice day.


----------



## godspeedsuckah

I wont be posting in this thread again mass only because I want you to save face and feel like you have accomplished something. I will however state that you should rethink the way you have simply amended your hempy bucket; your plants are far from something to strive for. Every picture has leaves folded under and burned severely.


----------



## massproducer

LMAO, yes bro these are burned severely, and they are surely not something to strive for... 
edit...  Like i stated earlier, you screwed up your plants and you even admitted it, why and how, because you just read what you wanted to read and took it from there...

You weren't watering like hydro, you had some type of plug in your drain hole and flooded your plants, you followed none of the instructions but were the first to say, these do not work...  No you didn't do your homework...

When you can grow the purps like this then come and talk to me,


----------



## massproducer

and please go and do some research on what hempy buckets are... tell me after that do hempy's use coco?  Tell me do hempy's amend the medium?  Tell me are hempy's organic?  Tell me do hempy's use straight perlite in the rez?  and tell me do hempy's have layers consisting of different amounts and concentrations of medium...  Also do hempy's work behind the same scientific principles that my buckets do?

Tell me, were you the only one that used these buckets to complain?  The fact is that everyone else that has common sense and that can follow simple instructions had bumper harvests...  Unfortunately this does not include you because you lack the main ingedient for success, which is common sense, when you find some then maybe your grows won't all turn out like garbage, but again until then, happy growing MG man

But one thing is for sure, you will never be on my level


----------



## massproducer

Please do not laugh at my horrible, burned plants, I think god speed is right, this really doesn't work, and i think i should rethink the system :holysheep:


----------



## massproducer

Last but definately not least...  This is a hazy sativa trapped in a indy's body


----------



## Thorn

lol mass, good to see ya around mate. They look ok from where i'm sitting, but then anything would compared to my littluns hehe  hope you are well.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Hello *massman*..and friends of coco coir..

My first bucket went hermie..That plant did not like stress what so ever..all the ones i did LST on hermied..so  I wanted to try it again..this time with My Favorite Plant Called Frosting..Now I think the roots have hit the res  and I plan to put her into flower on Sunday..I really enjoy these and cant wait to see this one in flower..well enough of me :bolt::bong:


----------



## jasonscruff

can anyone help me please .my leaves r getting brittle  .they r 4 weeks old  and about 5 inches high ive just transported them to bigger pots and there in coco soil  the room is about 4x4x2 and ive just switched to 6oo hps what am i doing wrong.....


----------



## jasonscruff

mass can u help me please .. my leaves r going brittle on my 4 week old plants ... wot am i doing wrong ....


----------



## leafminer

PICS please.
How far from the plants do you have the light? Sounds like heat stress to me but without pics ....


----------



## jasonscruff

the light is now ceiling height . (about 2ft from plants ) also i havent fed them a feed yet only ph balanced water


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

jasonscruff said:
			
		

> the light is now ceiling height . (about 2ft from plants ) also i havent fed them a feed yet only ph balanced water


 

we are going to need to see what we are talking about my friend..  are you doing these buckets or just growing in coco?  good luck:bolt::bong:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

sounds like theyre getting too much heat, but as stated b/4 we need 2 c what it is that has u worried. pics plz


----------



## solarz

I'm glad that this post came back to the top, because i am running a new set of MassP coco buckets.  The first run i SEVERELY burned b/c i was still feeding the nute amended soil.  This go around, i kept the amendments the same, except now i i have only feed once, when i first put them in the coco buckets, with EWC tea w/ liquid Karma and Molasses.  Since then, i have just been feeding Plain tap water that has been left out with LK and molasses.  This seems to be doing the trick...i have nice green leaves, and 6 overall healthy plants.  I'll get some pics off of the came and post them up of the girls in the flower room.  They really exploded thru the stretch, and now i have a feaking jungle in my closet.  I can't even fit in there anymore...i have to lay outside the closet and reach under the canopy just to water them :holysheep:.  I've also hade to tie all of them down b/c they were shooting up so fast.  Just wanted to give an update, as well as my $.02 about the MassP buckets.

solarz


----------



## docfishwrinkle

thats effen sweet solarz! give us the porn we sit & dream about all day. thats weird u burnt ur plants on 1st run. i ammendend the **** outta mine & fed full strength once a week w/ nutes & tea. but whatever works 4 u & the ladies r happy then do it. but yeah give us pics now dammit! lol


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

yeah   *solarz*...wheres the Porn:lama:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

:goodposting:


----------



## solarz

Whats up guys...sorry i haven't gotten any pics up yet.  I actually ran into a sort of problem.  I'm running 2 indica dominate and 3 sativa dominate (bag seeds) and 2 of the 3 sats are going thru some type of problem.  I tried to diagnose, and i thought it was a K deficiency, and tried to feed a pretty good flowering nute tea...and the problem didn't seem to get better, and actually may have gotten worse.  I promise to post some pics up a lil later tonight when the lights come on, and maybe yall could give me some input as to whats going on.

OTOH, the indica doms are doing GREAT.  They are 5 weeks into flowering, and haven't dropped any leaves, or had any problems as of yet.  so we'll see.

I have made my first seed purchase (mandala satori, speed queen, 8 mile high) and plan on running 2 of each strain.  Of each strain, i plan on running one MassP bucket and one DWC bucket to see whats really what whith these buckets.  I'm also doing it to see if there is really a difference to organically grown bud vs. hydro buds.  I'm starting to germ tonight, so hopefully they will be ready to put into the rapid rooter plugs on the 1st of March.  Wish me luck :hubba:

solarz


----------



## solarz

Here are some pics of the entire closet (5 MassP buckets) and then some shots of one of the sat. dominate plants i was talking about earlier that is showing some signs of sickness.  I'm not sure what it is, but from what i've read it looks to be either manganese, or K issues.  Maybe someone here can tell.  

And before the questions start...i have no clue what the ph of the run off is, and this is not because i'm lazy, rather its because of my understanding that ph isn't an issue with these buckets.  So i havent checked my ph since starting this grow.  I thoroughly washed the coco before use, so i'm pretty sure that's not the issue.  I've been mostly feeding straight water with liquid karma and black strap molasses, with ONLY ONE feeding of a flowering nute tea (EWC, high P guano, peruvian seabird guano [high p and k], kelp, liquid karma and blackstrap molasses).  Any suggestions would be appreciated. 

solarz


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

hey *solarz*...*massman  *and or *docfish *should be along shortly. They have helped me  greatly...I am new to these as well  but  dont mess with my ph on these either..i have my second one in flower and just transplanted a Purplebud in another mass bucket..i too am running a DWC  with these  but mostly organic soil..you will have to check the *BHC  *thread to see my DWC..it is a freak..lol.  


Please take a :bong:  the Doctor will be right with you


----------



## solarz

4u2smoke, 
what is the BHC thread...where is it located?  

I'm going to finish these 5 out that i have in flower now, which are a few days short of 6 weeks.  After that i'm going to run 5 gal dwc buckets, with 2 liter MassP buckets...to see if there really is a noticeable difference in organics and hydro.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27765&page=137


its a thread started when they got rid of the shout box..I post in there  i dont do them   this was the first one..but  will have to say  these massbuckets would be right up ther with DWC..as massbuckets are between soil/hyrdo..i like it..and let me know when you run these  i will subscribe..anyway  those are looking nice my friend  sorry didnt mention earlier..:bong:


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

That yellowing looks like it should to me my friend..thats low on plant  so plant has used its resources  just let it fall natual..


----------



## docfishwrinkle

solarz like 4u said everything looks normal 2 me. would be nice if we could open up pics to get a larger viewing size. i wouldnt sweat it, but if u could resize pics so we can open up. thx


----------



## solarz

how exactly do you resize to be able to open them up?  I use MS Paint to resize the pics.


----------



## solarz

Ok, here are some more pics that are bigger, so you can see the issues i was talking about.  I actually took one of the problem plants down, b/c it was just so slowly growing and presenting so many problems.  It was also a lazy plant..lol, dropping branches and all (and the buds weren't even that big).  But you can see the spotting on the leaves.


----------



## thedonofchronic

what do you think the first pic there is from?
got the same spots


----------



## solarz

I'm not sure what that problem is.  I have two plants that are showing these signs, and then i have another plant (all three from the same cut) that isn't showing any issues at all, besides the normal yellowing.  They are all in 5 gal buckets amended exactly the same, and they all get the same food.  So i'm at a loss as to why/how this is happening.  I'm one day short of 6 weeks in flower, so i'm hoping those indica doms.(the last pic) will be ready soon.

solarz


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

not sure solarz..I was going to ask what the PH  of the water you use is..Thats what it looks to me..In my soils grows I get this in some plants and not others..I think its the Plant it self..But mine useually do this in Veg..so im confused as well..Massman  should be along shortly to help..Like i said b4  Im new to these so not sure if i can be of any help..just be here for support my friend..Thanks for the pics. KEEP M GREEN


ps..That 3rd pic looks to be heat issues..what are the temps and how close to light?


----------



## solarz

I think you may be right about the heat issues.  Before my room was hitting the high 80's with the light on...sometimes even up into the 90's.  The thing is, it wasn't really hot inside the closet.  I would go in there and it wouldn't be hot at all.  I just reworked my flower closet yesterday to create more of a sealed environment.  Before, i think the heat(coming from the cooling the light) that was "supposed" to be exhausted, was getting back into the grow room some how.  Now i have weather stripped everything, and the temps were around 79f after the light was on for about 6 hrs.  Anyway, i'm done rambling.  I'm off to work on some more stuff...i have a Warlock lady that just showed her parts this morning...so i'm debating weather i want to put her into a MassP bucket...or let her keep going in the 1 gall pot i have her in now...and just take some clones to find a good mom.  

solarz


----------



## thedonofchronic

keep er in the pot 
jmo obvs, warlock sounds dope man get some pics of that one


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

put in a mass bucket SolarZ:lama:


----------



## solarz

I'm thinking of going with a mini MassP bucket and i think i may use amended soil instead of the coco.  Haven't decided yet, but i need to quickly, because that thing is getting BIG.  I think i'm going to top her tonight and clone the top.

I also took some pics of the roots and stuff from a massp bucket. It was from the other sat. dom plant that i pulled a couple olf days ago.  I'll post those up shortly.

solarz


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

:ciao:  Solarz...I think it would be good to stay with Mass way.... in this thread anyway..Im sure you understand..



Hello friends  heres mine at 3 weeks in flower and really budding nice..at the rate shes going she sure to bring me my 3 oz  (dry) plant:hubba:   another update as she progresses..:bolt::bong: 



sorry  friends...server wont let me post pics...Dont know why  but hope they get it fixed soon..


----------



## solarz

first of all, congrats 4U on the MVP...well deserved.

Now, i'm still debating on weather to go with the coco massp bucket...or to do a massp bucket without the coco...and using a another amended soiless mix.  I'll probably recycle one of the earlier massp buckets i pulled from this current grow and throw a clone from the warlock in there and see how it does.  I've already started 2 Speed Queen, Satori and 8 mile high's in DWC this week.  They are still tiny, but have roots galore!  So please....be on the look out for a growlog for those (which will be my first official log).  I'll probably do one side by side with DWC and a MassP bucket, using the same cuts just to see how each produces and smokes/tastes afterwards.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Hello everyone..here is my *Massbucket*  she is in the 4th week This strain can go an easy 9-10 weeks  I like to harvest at late 7-8..all ready she has past the one I put in BPOTM a few months Back  at this same age.:clap:  I cant wait to see her in another 4 weeks:yay:  so far everything is going well i think.  Ill keep ya posted..oh and the Purplebud I started is doing okay..will post on that one later..:bolt::bong::watchplant:


----------



## solarz

Hey 4u...i see you are doing well with your MassP buckets.  I just transplanted my warlock lady into a MasP bucket (except using "soil" instead of the coco).  I just gave it a light watering yesterday and will giver her a GOOD feeding of ewc tea in about 2 days or so.  From there on out, i'm just going to feed water + molasses + liquid karma.  I'm probably gonna keep it in veg for another week or so, then in to the flowering room.  I'll post some pics later when i get home.

BTW...the 3 that i already have in flower in the coco buckets...one of them is SEVERLY yellowing, and i'm not sure exactly what it is.  I'll post some pics up of that also and see if anyone has any ideas/suggestions.

solarz


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Pics 4U 


just chugging along..doing good..


----------



## MysticWolf

Great post Mass Thanks though I have a few questions please.

1)Do you set all your prepped buckets in a drain pain with say a drain tube?

2)Every 2 to 3 days are you top watering with the nutes and wash until you get a bit out of the drain hole? IE roughly how much every 2 to 3 days.

3)How do you harvest cut at bucket level?  Part two of this is after harvest how can you best recover the bucket and material? Or do you do a whole bucket break down and say a rinse ETC?


----------



## docfishwrinkle

MysticWolf said:
			
		

> Great post Mass Thanks though I have a few questions please.
> 
> 1)Do you set all your prepped buckets in a drain pain with say a drain tube?
> 
> 2)Every 2 to 3 days are you top watering with the nutes and wash until you get a bit out of the drain hole? IE roughly how much every 2 to 3 days.
> 
> 3)How do you harvest cut at bucket level? Part two of this is after harvest how can you best recover the bucket and material? Or do you do a whole bucket break down and say a rinse ETC?


 
1. NO DRAIN LINE!!! i believe godspeedsuckah tried & gave him probs.

2. 2-3 days water when u know that ur roots hit res. b4 res just water enough 2 keep plants alive. nutes once a wk, but i also found that i could use teas once a wk also w/ nutes on diff days of course.

3. harvest like u would anyother plant. i trim on plant then cut branches 2 hang. ive never reused, not 2 say u cant, but bucket is layered for how plant would use nutes in various stages of life. coco is only good for 2-3 yrs tops.

hears a feeding chart i came up w/ for these buckets.

note:all water has been aerated min. 24-48hrs. molasses 1tblsp/gal

mon-molasses/ro

tue-no water, mixed water,nutes, & molasses bubbled for 2 days

wed-no water - i like to starve girls for 2 days b/4 nutes so they eat all their food :hubba: 

thur-feed 48 hr tea mixed on tue

fri-no water

sat-molasses/ro

sun-no water

hopefully this will help. i dont know if this is the best way but its mine


----------



## MysticWolf

Got ya Doc though I was not talking drain line I just want a drain pan under my buckets to catch any possible run off. More a no runs drips or errors thing as I don't own this place YET.

I've used a similar setup for orchids and lilies and I have an extra bucket here to play with and some weird looking bag seed from a friend so I'm going do a lil experiment with one bucket  but will take pictures in case it works out as it is an old orchid trick. who knows it might work out good. 

I got another question too did ya'll rise your coco three time with just clear clean water thats what I did for lily and orchid prorogation? 

BTW pardon and stupid questions I'm a new legal med user and refuse to pay the prices they want to charge here. So I'm taking my ornamental hort background and gonna apply it to well tomatoes "yep thats what I was told to call them when I ask for supplies" I still find that funny as heck.

Mass thankyou Doc thanks too your both kewl.

MW


----------



## peaceful

Awesome thread gentlemen/ladies.  Just read the whole thing and am excited to try the MP buckets.  Special thanks to MP!!!  
I have an important question, my room is warm, 75*F lights on and up to 85*F lights off.  This will keep the res kinda warm.  Will this be a problem?  I know Cowboy had a hermie and thinks it may be due to warm res temps.  I know this is different, but, could it be a problem?


----------



## MysticWolf

peaceful

Res temp has allot to do with sex and propagation in many kinds of hort not just MJ.

I'm a knew grower as well so I'm learning allot though I can share one trick we used to do with lilies and orchids. 

They make several brands of fiberglass insulation that have a reflective foil back not paper. 

Next you just cut lengths and lean up against your buckets the insulation holds the temp down helps keep roots dark and drops the temp and the backing reflects usable light back into the grow space. 

If you want to get fancy you can run foil or mylar along the top edge of the insulation too to grab a bit more light.

If you can up your air turn over in the room a bit about 3 more turnovers and hour should get you about a 5 degree drop give or take ...depending on ambient air intake.

MW


----------



## docfishwrinkle

keep in mind temp of these resivoirs is not like a true hydro in reguards that dwc res needs to be no warmer than low 70's hopefully mid sixties. this helps oxygen to remain rich in res water. this is a passive hydro so it leans more towards a soil grow & will tolerate much higher temps. 1st hand my floor temps reached 80 on many occassions. meaning my canopy temps were in low 90's. as u you can see in this thread my 1st run w/ these buckets proved 2b a winner. thx mass!


----------



## peaceful

I may try a "micro" coco bucket.  I have a 2g bucket or maybe even a cut off 1g milk jug.  Any reason I can't pop a freshly rooted clone into a 1g version of MP's bucket?  That sounds fun actually.  An entire grow cycle in a 1G MP Coco bucket.  I have a VERY short flowering chamber so a small bucket is necessary unless I transplant when moving to flower.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

youll have 2 tame that beast when she stretches. plant will easily double in height! if use milk jug make sure 2 make it so light cant penetrate 2 root zone. healthy plants like @ least 1g of soil to 1 foot of plant. keep in mind if lst is used to think of how tall shed b if left 2 grow natural.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

:ciao:  *massman  *and *Docfish*...been haveing a lot of server busy the last few weeks. Harvested the top Cola that was 16 inches long and 4 inches round:yay:  the rest I am takeing this weekend..Trichs on top cola @ about 30% Amber..Sorry no scale here..but from previous Harvests of this PLant " *Frosting*"  Your coco bucket Did me GOOD *docfish*.... its your feeding schedule that I ran this in..thanks buddy   and now my other one is PurpleBud  from seedsman..this is a clone from a female I have harvested this same time..and are very simular..and is why I chose to cross them:hubba: Thanks again Guys..will update on the Purple bucket:rofl:  as she grows..shes just hittting res and i turn to flower on 4/20..take care and be safe:bolt::bong:

oh and to the person asking about drip pans..i use all sorts as you can see..I also say  dump  anything left in pan next day..it smells  awefull:giggle:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

nice 4u! make sure 2 get pics up @ chop. what nutes u useing? f.f.? last "?" i promise. can u plz give details how u have purple buck layered (mixing ratio & ammendments)? gotta know im fiending on a grow so im gunna live vicariously in ur grow.


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

Should a clone be vegged for a while before going into a 3 gallon bucket?
I've got clones in 16oz cups right now and was going to put most of them in soil and save one to try in a coco bucket. I'm thinking my coco bucket will have a 2" res of perlite and then be mainly coco up top with a little perlite. Normally in soil, I go from the 16oz cup to a 1 gallon grow bag, and then on to a 3 gallon bag after vegging for a month or so. Would it be better to transfer my coco-bucket clone to a 1 gallon bag of coco for a little while and then put her in the 3 gallon bucket or just go straight for the bigger bucket and water daily? The clone is around 5 inches tall atm and well rooted.
Any help greatly appreciated if anyone is still following this thread:farm:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

go straight 2 bucket. its going to take the better part of a week for those roots 2 hit res but you will know when shes there. one other tip if u do it this way, water with plain water & flood res  until roots get in there then fert.  this way ur not wasting ferts & is a good way 2 figuring howmuch water res holds.  r u going to use coir or pith? i opted pith cause retains water a lil better. what ferts r u useing? sorry 4 all da ?'s.  need anything just holler.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

go straight 2 bucket. its going to take the better part of a week for those roots 2 hit res but you will know when shes there. one other tip if u do it this way, water with plain water & flood res  until roots get in there then fert.  this way ur not wasting ferts & is a good way 2 figuring howmuch water res holds.  r u going to use coir or pith? i opted pith cause retains water a lil better. what ferts r u useing? sorry 4 all da ?'s.  need anything just holler.


----------



## solarz

DFW, i'm not trying to step on your toes, but i wouldn't be so quick to recommend that people should fert amended coco.  In *most* (not all) cases, this is a sure fire way to nuteburn/overferting.  When you have amended coco and add flowering teas, etc...it is a bit too much.  Now i can say that giving EWC teas every watering would be ok, but IMHO giving flowering teas isn't going to give you a good result.  

solarz


----------



## docfishwrinkle

solarz said:
			
		

> DFW, i'm not trying to step on your toes, but i wouldn't be so quick to recommend that people should fert amended coco. In *most* (not all) cases, this is a sure fire way to nuteburn/overferting. When you have amended coco and add flowering teas, etc...it is a bit too much. Now i can say that giving EWC teas every watering would be ok, but IMHO giving flowering teas isn't going to give you a good result.
> 
> solarz


 
solarz, dr manny was talking of perlite & coco, no ammendments. ive done 2 coco grows one documented here & one done w/ no documentation on any site. both those grows ive ammended my coco in layers as stated in this thread & given organic teas @ 100% strength.  oh & by the way they were both white strains. whit strains are more sensitive to nutes than any other strains.  i dont have any probs w/ burn. thats the beauty of coco it naturally buffers & releases nutes as plant needs.  also stated 2 manny was 2 feed plain water til he knows that roots are in res which lets plant acclimate to new home. have you even done a full run w/ these coco buckets? if so what were ur probs? b/c this is the easiest & most productive way of growing. once u dial in youll pull more than dwc.

take care

DFW


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> go straight 2 bucket. its going to take the better part of a week for those roots 2 hit res but you will know when shes there. one other tip if u do it this way, water with plain water & flood res  until roots get in there then fert.  this way ur not wasting ferts & is a good way 2 figuring howmuch water res holds.  r u going to use coir or pith? i opted pith cause retains water a lil better. what ferts r u useing? sorry 4 all da ?'s.  need anything just holler.


Thanks for the responses 

I will be using Canna Coco, which I think is coir... doesn't really say on the bag. I was gonna try out the Canna Coco nutes too, but I've still got gallons of FoxFarm stuff so I'm gonna try that out for my test run. And DFW is right, I will be using just straight ferts, no amendments to the coco/perlite.
Strain is Peak's Skunkberry, which is pretty nutrient tolerant in my limited experience so I should be able to push the limits with this test run and see where it gets me. I'm getting around 1 1/4- 1/1/2 pounds from 10 girls under 2 600's in Ocean Forest right now, I would ideally like to up the yield a bit and lower my number of plants. I'm also hoping to cut my veg time down a bit also.
DFW- When you say flood the resevoir the first week or so til the roots hit it, I'm thinking you mean water the bejeezus out of it until it's basically flushed and is all clean/new water? That would take care of any stagnation right? I will be watering daily until I see that growth spurt I've been reading about.
I'm transplanting tomorrow morning so I will update this as I progress. 
Thanks again  :farm:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

Dr. Manny Bowles said:
			
		

> Thanks for the responses
> 
> I will be using Canna Coco, which I think is coir... doesn't really say on the bag. I was gonna try out the Canna Coco nutes too, but I've still got gallons of FoxFarm stuff so I'm gonna try that out for my test run. And DFW is right, I will be using just straight ferts, no amendments to the coco/perlite.
> Strain is Peak's Skunkberry, which is pretty nutrient tolerant in my limited experience so I should be able to push the limits with this test run and see where it gets me. I'm getting around 1 1/4- 1/1/2 pounds from 10 girls under 2 600's in Ocean Forest right now, I would ideally like to up the yield a bit and lower my number of plants. I'm also hoping to cut my veg time down a bit also.
> DFW- When you say flood the resevoir the first week or so til the roots hit it, I'm thinking you mean water the bejeezus out of it until it's basically flushed and is all clean/new water? That would take care of any stagnation right? I will be watering daily until I see that growth spurt I've been reading about.
> I'm transplanting tomorrow morning so I will update this as I progress.
> Thanks again :farm:


 
yes manny canna is coir & fox farm nutes did me well in 1st run.  i used f.f. mix w/ organic tea ingredients & brewed 1-2 days while being aerated fed this once a week then plain water other days. i was useing pith where you have coir so you will have to water everyday. which is a bonus cause ur getting that unintentional flush. my bubblelicious ended up being able to take 125% recommended f.f. feedings! dont know if was a total waste of nutes but was fun to see. back to ur inquiries. flood res yes to prevent stag water. yes when u c spurt get on feeding schedule. also if ur growing these girls au natural then i recommend flippin @ that time also. plants easily double. glad 2 c u are thinking about giving a run. if i may ask could you run a plain coir bucket & a layered for comparison. if u do im sure you wouldnt b sorry:hubba: . if not @ least keep us updated w/ pics. 

thx & GL

DFW


----------



## solarz

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> solarz, dr manny was talking of perlite & coco, no ammendments. ive done 2 coco grows one documented here & one done w/ no documentation on any site. both those grows ive ammended my coco in layers as stated in this thread & given organic teas @ 100% strength.  oh & by the way they were both white strains. whit strains are more sensitive to nutes than any other strains.  i dont have any probs w/ burn. thats the beauty of coco it naturally buffers & releases nutes as plant needs.  also stated 2 manny was 2 feed plain water til he knows that roots are in res which lets plant acclimate to new home. *have you even done a full run w/ these coco buckets? if so what were ur probs?* b/c this is the easiest & most productive way of growing. once u dial in youll pull more than dwc.
> 
> take care
> 
> DFW



Wooaaahhhh...DFW,
you seem to be on the defense/attack.  I clearly stated i wasn't trying to step on your toes, nor anyone else's.  I never even mentioned anything about this style of growing, and to answer your question, yes i have completed an entire run with these buckets _(several in fact..have a few going as i type)_.  Check back a couple of pages...my problems were documented there.  I spoke with MassP directly about the issues i had, and i also shared with him my solution to those issues.  So please, don't come at me as if i'm speaking from no experience.  Do you not remember, i was right there with you when YOU first learned of this method.  So i don't need any insight into how easy this method of growing is. 

Like i was trying to get across before, i wouldn't be quick to tell a new grower to this method, to use teas on amended soil.  The reason i say this is because everyone uses different amendments at different levels...so adding the tea may be totally uneeded.  I'm sorry if i misread your post the the person, but that is still no reason to give such a sharp response.  I'm not here to disprove anyone...only to help.  Sorry if my original post came of as any way other than that.

solarz


----------



## solarz

Dr. Manny Bowles said:
			
		

> Should a clone be vegged for a while before going into a 3 gallon bucket?
> I've got clones in 16oz cups right now and was going to put most of them in soil and *save one to try in a coco bucket. I'm thinking my coco bucket will have a 2" res of perlite and then be mainly coco up top with a little perlite.* Normally in soil, I go from the 16oz cup to a 1 gallon grow bag, and then on to a 3 gallon bag after vegging for a month or so. Would it be better to transfer my coco-bucket clone to a 1 gallon bag of coco for a little while and then put her in the 3 gallon bucket or just go straight for the bigger bucket and water daily? The clone is around 5 inches tall atm and well rooted.
> Any help greatly appreciated if anyone is still following this thread:farm:



Just to clarify, this is where my confusion came.   I just assumed that he was talking about a MassP coco bucket, because it was being discussed in this thread.  Again...my apologies for misreading the posts.

solarz


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> if i may ask could you run a plain coir bucket & a layered for comparison. if u do im sure you wouldnt b sorry:hubba:


Sounds like it would be fun if I had more time and space. If I veg this bucket for 1-2 weeks and then put it in my flowering area, it's going to be there with 10 others that will be around week 6 of flower and are around 50" tall. So it's going to get a little crowded under my lights this time around  I will be re-building and rearranging my room after this cycle so I will have mucho space next time tho :hubba:

Am I really going to have to water everyday even after the roots hit the resevoir?

Thanks again


----------



## solarz

after the roots hit the rez (beleive me, you'll know when they do) you don't have to water everyday.  You can go every other day...or whatever you need to do, but it doesn't HAVE to be everyday.  But my *MY* experience running these buckets...i had better growth/yeild when i treated the coco bucket like hydro instead of soil.  I'm saying that to say...that i watered everyday and had better results from the same strains in the same conditions.  

Manny, how exactly are you planing on feeding the plants?  What nutes are you going to be using?

solarz


----------



## LassChance

massproducer said:
			
		

> The one thing I forgot to talk about is the feeding schedule.
> 
> I feed my plants about every 2-3 days with either an organic tea or 800 - 1000 ppm of advanced nutrients Monkey Juice.  I also always add a tablespoon of blackstrap.  Because of the microbial and fungal life within the coco it is a good idea to use dechlorinated water for all feedings.
> 
> Every 3rd watering is just blackstrap and water, to flush any excess salts.
> 
> The goal with feeding is to keep the rez pretty much full all the time, so that the plants can eat constantly while still recieving crazy amounts of dissolved oxygen from the medium.
> 
> This is the point in my system of using pure perlite in the rez area, the perlite will create tiny air pockets, while still wicking the water back up into the medium where the specialized roots are feeding and the beneficals are doing there thing.  With an organic medium you do not want the medium to dry out too much because some beneficals need moisture to survive and most need it to thrive.  But with this system it is almost impossible to overwater your plants, because of both the bucket design, and the perlite and coco.
> 
> In the first week while the roots are trying to reach the rez you will want to feed everyday, after the roots hit the rez you can back off to every 2-3 days.  You will know that the roots have hit the rez beecause there will be an explosion of growth almost overnight, it truly is amazing.




Man...this is The Holy Grail of MJ growing.  Many thanks for sharing this.
Im wondering...can the Hempy be combined with the SOG?  And if so, couldnt containers like plastic kitty litter boxes (2' X 1.5' X 9"? say, two rows of four plants?  More? Less?

I feel compelled to try...LOL! After reading about the tremendous root growth, how deep would the containers need to be? Is 9-10 inches deep enough for a SOG??

Lass


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

solarz said:
			
		

> after the roots hit the rez (beleive me, you'll know when they do) you don't have to water everyday.  You can go every other day...or whatever you need to do, but it doesn't HAVE to be everyday.  But my *MY* experience running these buckets...i had better growth/yeild when i treated the coco bucket like hydro instead of soil.  I'm saying that to say...that i watered everyday and had better results from the same strains in the same conditions.
> 
> Manny, how exactly are you planing on feeding the plants?  What nutes are you going to be using?
> 
> solarz



I will go by what Docfishwrinkle said and just use water until I think the roots have hit the res and then use FF nutes somewhat according to hydro schedule I'm thinking. The only amendments I made to the coco was about 1 cup perlite/per gallon and I added Subculture B, + M. Sounds like I will be watering more now :farm:

edit- I forgot to add that I also use Liquid Karma and Cal/Mag also. These 2 and the FF trio at a balance of around 1000ppm.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

hello  DMB..go with what DOc is saying  I ran a few of these as well now..sorry no Harvest pics Doc..had them but server busy  I gave up trying..I didnt start useing my FF nutes until Flower..and then  use Docs  feeding schedual some pages back..I have great results with these buckets..the hardest thing for me was mixing the layers correctly..after you get the mixxes down..its a cake walk.  Good luck  and stick close to this thread..lots of great help here..take care and be safe:ciao:


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

So I transplanted a clone Saturday morning into my coco-bucket and watered until the res was leaking a little water. Tonight (Monday) the coco is still very wet at the top even with a fan moving air across it. From the looks of things I still won't need to water for a few days...
Did I misunderstand and water too much from the start? Usually after transplanting into soil I would just water enough to soak the roots but not necessarily the entire bag of soil. I kinda thought the coco would dry out a little faster than it has, maybe it's wicking from the resevoir? I have an extra clone and coco if I messed this one up, and could start a new bucket if need be. The clone is showing nice new growth, but I'm wondering if the roots aren't staying _too_ wet. I feel like I should flush out the resevoir but I'm afraid to re-soak the coco. Any ideas?


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

hello my friend..you cant over water with these buckets..and I wouldnt flush the res..what i do see is you only need to water a cup of water evry day  untill the roots hit the res...then  water just until it comes out res hole..and I would go with Docs feeding and watering schedual..untill you get the handle on the amendments..when I started  useing Docfish  schedual  my plants started exploading in better looking growth..ill go back  and look for the post..I printed it and put  on my wall for quik reff..good luck..any pics of these beautys?


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> hello my friend..you cant over water with these buckets..and I wouldnt flush the res..what i do see is you only need to water a cup of water evry day  untill the roots hit the res...then  water just until it comes out res hole..and I would go with Docs feeding and watering schedual..untill you get the handle on the amendments..when I started  useing Docfish  schedual  my plants started exploading in better looking growth..ill go back  and look for the post..I printed it and put  on my wall for quik reff..good luck..any pics of these beautys?



Thanks 4U, no pics yet. Maybe this weekend when I have a little time. 
I just planted the spare clone I had in a new bucket and I'm gonna scrap the other one. It's been 4 days and the coco is still very wet. No biggie, lesson learned.


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

What ph are you guys watering at? I usually stick to 6.3 in soil, but have dropped to around 5.8-5.9 for this bucket. Am I too low?


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Yes..i run mine just as i do soil..6.5-6.8  I think the normal Hyrdo ph 5.8  is to low..but  thats my thoughts...you setting one of these up?  if so share with us in here will ya please..take care and be safe


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> how long have u had these plants in buckets? see when i transplanted into these buckets my root ball was placed on the top of res layer so in about 1 wk roots were swimming in res. i didnt have any stagnant water sitting in res. it was my understanding that need to water in small increments often but not give "full" waterings til roots hit res. i never once checked ph of runoff or water or soil @ anytime b/c of natural buffer of coco. as far as nutes i used all 6 f.f. also once a week. during stretch i watered every day about 1/2 gal. after stretch i watered as follows:
> 
> note:all water has been aerated min. 24-48hrs. molasses 1tblsp/gal
> 
> mon-molasses/ro
> 
> tue-no water, mixed water,nutes, & molasses bubbled for 2 days
> 
> wed-no water - i like to starve girls for 2 days b/4 nutes so they eat all their food :hubba:
> 
> thur-feed 48 hr tea mixed on tue
> 
> fri-no water
> 
> sat-molasses/ro
> 
> sun-no water
> 
> hopefully this will help. i dont know if this is the best way but its mine
> next grow will probably vary lil, im going all organic & not sure about what my plan is. any info on how often i can use a "tea" would be good.
> 
> stay pie eyed
> 
> DFW


 




Bumping this post  for *Dr Manny*..  here is the schedual  i use..it seems to work well 4me


----------



## Budders Keeper

Hey Mass, apparently your on vacation or something...just in case your watching I'm getting ready to harvest my first bucket. I followed your instructions exactly with the layers and all and have never seen such incredible growth! Plus I saved a bunch of bucks cause I barely even used nutes. I cannot believe the incredible smell compared to previous grows of the same strain. I can put up pics if anyone is interested. Thanks again Mass, hope all is well.


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> Yes..i run mine just as i do soil..6.5-6.8  I think the normal Hyrdo ph 5.8  is to low..but  thats my thoughts...you setting one of these up?  if so share with us in here will ya please..take care and be safe



Yeah 4U, I've got one going. Mine is a bit different from the way you guys did yours tho, as the only amendments I added to the coco was a bit of perlite and some Subculture beneficials. So, I will be depending more on my nutrients to feed...
My FF Grow Big/Hydro says to feed at 5.8-6-3, so my usual 6.3 would probably be OK. That would be nice as I have my normal soil girls going too so to be able to ph my solutions the same would save me a little time. 
Pics coming soon :farm:


----------



## solarz

Honestly, i haven't checked the ph on my water that i use in these buckets, i just bubble it, and add whatever i'm adding that feeding and go for it.  If you have incorporated dolomite lime into your soil make up, it will naturally buffer the ph, hence making any water ok.  Manny, i'm not sure if you added and dolomite, but i'm thinking you didn't b/c i remember you saying you only added a bit of perlite and that's it.  I'd stick to listening to 4u on this one, but i was just giving you some info if you wanted to take a crack at it next gro around.  It just takes another step out of the process, adding another reason to these buckets simplicity.


----------



## Dr. Manny Bowles

Ok, here's a few pics of my current situation  

First pic is my clone in the coco bucket, flash makes her look a little pale. Nice new growth going on.
Second couple are my veg tent setup and my other Skunkberry soil kiddos, topped yesterday.
The rest of the pics are of my current adult Skunkberries, at around week 5 of flower. These things are monsters, I vegged way too long. The biggest was around 56-inches last time I measured. They went into flower at around 20 inches.
Anyways, I'll update with some new bucket pics as things start happening.
Thanks again :farm:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

Budders Keeper said:
			
		

> Hey Mass, apparently your on vacation or something...just in case your watching I'm getting ready to harvest my first bucket. I followed your instructions exactly with the layers and all and have never seen such incredible growth! Plus I saved a bunch of bucks cause I barely even used nutes. I cannot believe the incredible smell compared to previous grows of the same strain. I can put up pics if anyone is interested. Thanks again Mass, hope all is well.


 
silly wabbit post those pics!


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Budders Keeper said:
			
		

> Hey Mass, apparently your on vacation or something...just in case your watching I'm getting ready to harvest my first bucket. I followed your instructions exactly with the layers and all and have never seen such incredible growth! Plus I saved a bunch of bucks cause I barely even used nutes. I cannot believe the incredible smell compared to previous grows of the same strain. I can put up pics if anyone is interested. Thanks again Mass, hope all is well.


 


We Love pics...and without them  we dont believe you:rofl:  I wanna see these Beautys:lama:


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Dr. Manny Bowles said:
			
		

> Ok, here's a few pics of my current situation
> 
> First pic is my clone in the coco bucket, flash makes her look a little pale. Nice new growth going on.
> Second couple are my veg tent setup and my other Skunkberry soil kiddos, topped yesterday.
> The rest of the pics are of my current adult Skunkberries, at around week 5 of flower. These things are monsters, I vegged way too long. The biggest was around 56-inches last time I measured. They went into flower at around 20 inches.
> Anyways, I'll update with some new bucket pics as things start happening.
> Thanks again :farm:


 
Nice garden:aok:


----------



## Budders Keeper

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> We Love pics...and without them we dont believe you:rofl: I wanna see these Beautys:lama:


I was hopin to wait till harvest cause it's kinda tight in there, but I'd hate to look like a fibber Gimme a few and I 'll post it. By the way, my wife didn't believe me either till I took it out...the plant that is!








I just did a 3gal to try it. This strain has never been a big producer but i'm in it for the flavor/high.  G-13 X sensi-star=S-13 or dirtteen since it's not pure G-13


----------



## budwiser

What do you guys use as grow medium during the veg stage?  Just bought some coco coir and am going to try this method!


----------



## docfishwrinkle

u could use soil. i did, went from 3/4g soil pot to 3g bucket. now all i use is coco pith. its finer & holds water longer than coir. if you use coir only for veg id water 1-2 times a day. are u going from seed? if not veg in bucket. keep us posted & ur plans. 

GL

DFW


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## 4u2sm0ke

*Budskeeper*..You did a great job..nice and frosty:aok:  you need any help Harvesting you be sure to let me know okay?  take care and be safe


----------



## massproducer

Wow guys... I am sooo freaking proud...  You guys are really finding your groove with the coco, and I am very impressed.  I love coco, in a way that is hard to explain until you actually experience it.  

I am going to post some pics up in a bit of my current grow.  I know I have been MIA...  I really have been going through some stuff, but I am feeling so much better now.  Thanks for carring on the legacy while I have been gone


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Glad to see ya my friend..we are loving these buckets..thanks for bringing them to us..I knew you would be back  in..Hope all is well with you..cant wait to see the pics..Im off to work now  and hope to see some from the Master himself when i get home..welcome back my friend..


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## docfishwrinkle

whats up mass? good 2 c u. glad 2 hear ur on the rebound, i 2 have had a run of bad luck, but all will get better brother.

take care

DFW


----------



## gmo

Nice to see you back around mass.


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## massproducer

Here are a few big males that i had to cull from my flowering room...  I have had to start from stratch, I lost all of my mums, so I was forced to start over with selecting a few new mum.  I have BC Mango, BC Kush and some MS-17, which i was provided by Health Canada, I bought 60 seeds for $40 canadian.

I Started about 20 seeds of each strain.  culled about 1/3 undesired traits, including runts.  About 2 weeks ago I culled the garden again this time down to the 12 best.  Of the 12, 4 of these are showing male, 8 confirmed females. So I am left with 2 beatiful different kush phenos, a wonderful selection of mango that smells delish, and 5 fabulous MS-17 speciments.  I have tried to purpously leave more MS-17 because there is a lot more variation with the governments breeding program, and it shows through in the variation of phenos, with them all being somewhat similar but all being very different, but of all of the government plants that i kept, I got 1/7 male to female ratio.  I actually had to cull some very nice ms-17 plants because I just had to many and not enough room.  I was not very impressed with the milled produced I got from Health Canada as in the canaabis itself, but I also saw the potential.  But I am very impressed with the seeds I have received.  They are very vigourous and have a great kushy type smell, but more fruity then coffee, but very piney/ skunky/ fruity pungency.  

Well here is a few males, that is why I was posting, man I can ramble, lol

I will serious post the females tonight.


----------



## Funkfarmer

I am using coco in my ebb and flow system and i had some fuzzy mold growing on top, is this something to worry about? I did spritz it with a mold control product for plants and it seemed to work, but will this be a prob?


----------



## massproducer

Well see for me I am an organic gardener, so mold to me is a wonderful thing, and is one of the great things about coco, Coco is full of microbes and beneficals, so trying to fight against them is basically going to be an endless battle that you will never win.  The mold in coco will not harm your plants, they actually feed off of the coco itself.


----------



## Cannabiscotti

so what would you think about adapting this to an outdoor grow? would it be possible to set it up so it would be very lil maintenance? lets say i got a whole dug. it is mostly clay for soil. the whole is roughly 2ft by 3ft. just over 2 ft deep. this hole is very near a stream, and the bottom of said hole is very rocky with a bit of water that was hit. what/how much additives do you think i could put in to make it less maintenance? available i'v got my perilite/coco mix, perilite, mushroom compost, blood/bone meal, some coffe grounds cookn', fish emulsion, peat humus, some organic garden soil, and some pelletized limestone. and some rock availbe for the bottom of whole.  
 how much of the limestone would you add?  i'm sure i could throw some egg shells in instead/also. what' ya think?


----------



## massproducer

Just a couple of shots


----------



## massproducer

These plants are just starting to bud, they range from 5 1/2 feet to a bit over 6 feet and are in 3-5 gallon coco buckets.  So far all are very healthy,  losing only a couple of fan leaves due to N and Mg, which has always been a problem at around week 3 of flowering, even before coco.  It is not a problem at all, just a natural part of the aging process.


----------



## dirtyolsouth

Hi Massproducer & all...

Killer grow scene you've got going...  & this is some very valuable info to take in.  Thanks so much for sharing...   I'm only recently back into our beloved hobby after a several year hiatus so I'm currently getting my sea legs back with a nice organic soil grow.  I'm only trying to grow enough meds for myself so I'm just looking for great methods to the best product.  Your approach is fascinating and groundbreaking with your use of organics and beneficials in the hydro arena.  I have grown a lot in the past with a Coco/Hydroton mixture when coco was relatively new indoor gardening but there have been some major developments in Coco since then and it sounds like you're on the cutting edge.  After a few soil grows are under my belt I think I'll do a run inspired by your brilliant work...   Thanks again for all the contributions and may all your yields be dank!

Happy Growing!


----------



## docfishwrinkle

dam mass, impressive as always. what size tent r u useing to house those beasts? looks very crowded. oh yeah the strain is....? so are you ammending soil & useing tea? sorry 4 all the questions, but im outta the game for now.


----------



## massproducer

It is actually not a tent, it is about an 8 x 4 closet, it just has the panda film covering the spot where the door is to eliminate any light leaks, it is more croweded then I would usually like things but I am doing a mother run right now so I had to veg them for about 5 weeks, but it is more then managable, thats why they call me the massman, lol...

Right now I have some BC kush, BC mango and some MS-17, which is Health Canada's official strain.  

I am basically running my usual set up, I am adding a bit more kelp now as I like its microbial activity and its conditioning effects/mineral content but other then that just the usual guano/kelp/ casting teas, and of course our buddy Mr. Blackstrap.  I have also been adding more bees pollen to both my medium and my teas.

Good to hear from ya Doc, hope to see ya around, and hope things take a turn for the better for ya.  The future is only as bright as we make it.


----------



## massproducer

This is somewhat of a difficult question for me to answer because I have never grown with this method outside.  One big thing is that you have to look at these buckets just like you would look at any type of hydro set up.  What that means is maintenance.  There is just no way around that.  These buckets require more time then an average soil grown garden because they grow sooo dang fast.  My plants drink close to a gallon of water everyday during flowering, and you can not let coco dry out like you can with soil or it will mess with the cation exchange.

You may be better suited to go with soil outside unless you can care for the plants everyday.



			
				Cannabiscotti said:
			
		

> so what would you think about adapting this to an outdoor grow? would it be possible to set it up so it would be very lil maintenance? lets say i got a whole dug. it is mostly clay for soil. the whole is roughly 2ft by 3ft. just over 2 ft deep. this hole is very near a stream, and the bottom of said hole is very rocky with a bit of water that was hit. what/how much additives do you think i could put in to make it less maintenance? available i'v got my perilite/coco mix, perilite, mushroom compost, blood/bone meal, some coffe grounds cookn', fish emulsion, peat humus, some organic garden soil, and some pelletized limestone. and some rock availbe for the bottom of whole.
> how much of the limestone would you add? i'm sure i could throw some egg shells in instead/also. what' ya think?


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

hello massman...your closet looks great as allways.  Thanks for shareing with us..Hope things are doing well 4U..sorry aint been on much..had a career change and needed to foccus on that..as you know i grow in the fall in a shed due to heat issues i dont run in summer and am a week or two  from end season..flipped the whole shed to 12/12  on 4/20..andyway  I felt that my peuplebud bucket didnt look to well due to mites and the cold to hot..so i went ahead and placed outside with my others for the summer to see how it does..was meening to ask ya about the buckets outside  and see that you have yet to do them..My question is....Is this 4-5 gallon container large enough to make threw a summer grow?  I know you like to put into flower after roots hit res..and  i have been covering the top when it rains..maybe i should leave off ..last summer in my container grow she got way to much water..but  with these i know you cant over water..whats yer thaughts?  she is laying over to the side because in end April we had heavy rains and winds..knocked her over..so i put in a support stake  #5 rebar  and used some styrafoam to support the stalk from the edge of the container..I have her behind my scrog and PurpleBud i have in the ground..so far the bucket is doing well outside IMO..i live in Seattle and believe we start flower eng Aug  begining Sept..IDK..lol..and am looking forward to running this massbucket again next fall..i am loving the coco..i have even found that my clones  after rooting in my massproducing bubble cloner:lama:  ( thanks again for that one)..and placeing straight in 4 inch pots of coco  started growth faster..not sure  on facts..but  will work more on that  next fall..I live near the ocean and the kelp comes easy..i throw in outside garden...how can i prep this stuff for these buckets?  I use a granual  from box in my ammendments..wonder if the fresh stuff would be better?  I know should rinse maybe  suzz of salts..well now im rambling..cuzz im excited  and high as hell..lol..anyway  just thaught i would share and ask a few questions..

the pics are not in order..but the date stamp is correct..

Thanks for being here my friend..take care and be safe:ciao:


----------



## Cannabiscotti

massproducer said:
			
		

> This is somewhat of a difficult question for me to answer because I have never grown with this method outside. One big thing is that you have to look at these buckets just like you would look at any type of hydro set up. What that means is maintenance. There is just no way around that. These buckets require more time then an average soil grown garden because they grow sooo dang fast. My plants drink close to a gallon of water everyday during flowering, and you can not let coco dry out like you can with soil or it will mess with the cation exchange.
> 
> You may be better suited to go with soil outside unless you can care for the plants everyday.


 

well, i used a variation. bottom layer is rocks. 
then a layer of perelite, then the dreaded MG organic garden soil (i put it at the bottom so the plants are a lil older when they get to it.) mixed with coco. a few egg shells and a bit of pelletized lime. didn't see dolomite where i was at-so i know it'll take some time to work. 
then i used a bit of manure type soil i found at wally world.--but decided i didn't like it so much, so i only used a bit. added to that some more coco and some peat humus and perelite with a dash of bone and blood meal and mixed it up.
and from there up i used up the rest of my coco, perelite, peat humus, and 3 bags of mushroom compost. and i mixed some coffee grains in. saved some to use when i transplant to the location. 

I plan on hitting that with my compost tea and let it fester for a few days before i transplant. I know i'm late on the game for outdoor, but screwed up my first indoor crop--so i started some more and i'm gonna put the 5 survivors outside in a lil patch and see what happens. 

whe i dug the hole i hit water and rock at the bottome of it.(bout 18 inches)  so i'm hopin with all that perlite and coco it should be able to stay reletively moist. and yes, it did really suck carrying all that out to the plantsite.


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## 4u2sm0ke

just  throwing up  an update  massman..she is doing very well I think...I just dont know if she will make it  to finish  in that container..hopw everything is well in your  garden..take care and be safe


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## docfishwrinkle

dam 4u! shes doubled in 9 days easy! all that sun that seattles getting now a days is spoiling her. hear its been above average w/ the sun there. put ur umbrellas away & get the sun screen. anyhow take it sleezy.


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## dirtyolsouth

:yeahthat:

Geez Louise...  my 130,000 lumens can't compete with THAT type of growth in 9 days!  I'm interested in what Mass thinks about container size with coco...  Very nice plant and it looks like it's really banging on all cylinders 4u2...   You, your girl and mother nature are in harmony...   She'll soon be rivaling your hedges!

Peace!


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## godspeedsuckah

Looking good folks. Looking good Mass.


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## docfishwrinkle

GSS good to see ya around. still have any coco buckets going?


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## godspeedsuckah

Nope not anymore; they are too advanced for me LOL but they really do work well. I am growing in soil again. I am doing a mandala run: Mandala #1, 8 Mile High and Speed Queen; also some Mazar from gypsy nirvana  How is everyone doing? Plants look great.


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## 4u2sm0ke

:ciao:  GSS...ive heard a lot of that speed queen..is it an auto?  i too am mainly a soil grower  and  run  this 1 bcket..I like it..but  does seem to be more work  mixing the amendments..ive screwed those up  a lot..lol..but  i think i got this cat liter bucket  neasures down..we will see next fall..this  purplebud i have outside..i am wondering   if she will make the distance..or maybe shoulda used a larger container for outside..maybe a 40gal  garbage can:rofl:  anyway  Im high as hell right now..so I better go  watch  my ladies..Glad to see ya again  GSS..take care and be safe my friend:bolt::bong::watchplant:


----------



## godspeedsuckah

LOL, it is definately a good method and I think you have it figured out pretty darn well  :48:  Thanks and you be safe too friend.


----------



## KILL COPS

Anyway to post an exact break down of the mix you use.

I got the general idea, I just dont want to burn out my plants adding to much coffee or something in the wrong layer.


What about doing just a straight up coco/perlite bucket, basically constructed the same way, but with weekly low level feeding?

I use the organic humboldt like now with 100% promix bx without amending the soil with anything but beneficial microbe mix from my local hydro shop.


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## docfishwrinkle

sure you can do it. im running straight coco only w/ toms outside & give teas only & theyre booming. layer amendments in which the plant needs em & add teas & watch out! dont let coco dry out though.


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## 4u2sm0ke

was hopeing to get an answer but i suppose i will just :watchplant:


Ill let ya all know


:ciao:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

whats up 4u? i dont know about size of ur bucket supporting ur plant all summer, but it looks as if might be wanting a lil nitro. everything looks great! how do u get away w/ growing all those beasts in ur backyard? seattle pretty lax on the issue? wish i could have an enchanted forrest in my yard. im thinking of taking a tool crib so you have to go through a door & adding a lock. our law here states that must have in a locked structure. ill have 2 do some investigating on the issue, but seems 2b the only way 4 me. also guaranteed neighbors will ***** also, but if its w/in laws eff em! i just dont feel like being harassed by small town pigs. anyhow 4u keep it up all is good.

DFW


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

hey Doc...Rule # 1.   Dont tell no one!!!!  I gave an extra shot of "N"  but  seems to still be a light green..I do like that its moveable..I moved around the yard to keep in sun..I think where it was..the larger plants was shading her..so now she is out and about..this is whats nice about containers..easy to move around..But  plant restricted to hieght..take care and be safe my friend:bong:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

psst... i dont tell anyone. just neighbors are so close theyd def smell/see. ahhhh the whole lack o' light. yeah makes sense. give her the light. shes lookin might fine.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

true  on the smell...hell i can smell them sometimes from the mailboxes  which is around the corner..but  there are alot of other smells around as well..and skunks are all over here..as for nieghbors..I dont have any  really close by that can see..I own the two houses  here  and we have a wetland area behind..my only fear was delivery or postman..but  a lock on my entry gate solved that:aok:  but  i do  still get parranoid  at times..Mostly when i am really high..and I am going to go work on that now:ciao::bolt::bong:


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Okay friends..heres an update..*Massman*..hope you doing well..I think this may make the term  idk yet..she has been threw some HOT weather..two weeks ago we hit 100 a few days in a row and was forced to water every day and one time again at night..she was wilted bad...temps now are very more like normal..high this week low 70..today we havy mist  wich she is loving the bath..no rain yet  and when it does thats what the cover is for..and when it get into sept/oct  i have a makeshift green house for cover:aok:  will keep ya posted..take care and be safe:bolt::bong:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

wow 4u all looks good concidering the wacky weather shes been experiencing. id say def pushing the limits on the kitty litter bucket! she must like having her stomata cleansed by the mist ;-} anuhow good work & keep it up.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Dam..aint anyone else doing these massbucket?  oh well..heres mine..hopeing she will finish..she is farther along then the Monster Purplebud  i have outside..and is forming real nice..hope she makes the cutt  take care and be safe


----------



## HippyInEngland

Mass's last post was almost 3 months ago, so dont expect him to pop along to help out  

eace:


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

Thanks  *HIE*....He will see it when he gets back..thanks..Have a great Labor Day..if ya partake



okay  *massman*..I think she wont make it now..she is turning yellow more and more each day...she is much further along than the one in the ground..they was both outat same time..just think  this kitty liter bucket just isnt big enough..maybe if i woulda started her in april..she was all ready a few weeks in veg when moved outside..will keep ya posted..:bong:


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

pics 4u


----------



## Hempinvader2003

Hi Masspruducer!First of all I can say your system is excellent!!Im going to custruct my new grow room,and i would like to try this system.The only  problem is,that i cant go every day to watering,it would be too suspicius...I wondering what do you think,can i connect your buckets with a simlpe automated watering system with a reservoir?

Thx a lot!!!!


----------



## docfishwrinkle

Hempinvader2003 said:
			
		

> Hi Masspruducer!First of all I can say your system is excellent!!Im going to custruct my new grow room,and i would like to try this system.The only problem is,that i cant go every day to watering,it would be too suspicius...I wondering what do you think,can i connect your buckets with a simlpe automated watering system with a reservoir?
> 
> Thx a lot!!!!


 
hey hemp invader welcome. mass doesnt hang here much anymore, but we can help. 1st off your building a room where you have to sneak to? 

anyhow you could do a automated waterer, but you might find that youll be wasting excessive nutes. if you plan on useing straight water just make sure your ph is close. id also maybe compost your organics 1st this way they are more readily available to your plant. look into getting some humic acid & azomite.

if you plan on useing nutes then make sure your res is well aerated or nutes will go "sour". not sure how long theyd last im not a hydro guy, but im guessing no longer than couple days. based on experience w/ brewing teas. 

if this is your 1st indoor then you are in for a fun ride. coco is fugin awesome! very forgiving after the first 2 wks(cation exchange). what strain are you going w/? also growing is very addictive so good luck restraining yourself on going to go look @ em multiple times a day. lol 

good luck

DFW

oh ****! 4u looks like she might pull through. looks like a maybe a cal/mag def? if she dont finish in time then ship her over here & ill run her through my bubble bags. lol good luck brotha


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

hello  *Massman*..and  the  rest  of  *ya*..:bong:


*doc*..she  did make it:yay:  not  the  best   looking  but  shell  get  the  job  done..sure  was  fun..but  must  say  This  is  a lot  better  indoors..she  went threw  a  lot  this  summer ..I  left  all  the  lower  stuff on  and  will take  soon..Im  reading  up  on  that  bubble  hash...Wish  me  luck should  have  one  of  these  buckets  running   around  christmas..untill then  take  care   and  be  safe:bolt::bong:


----------



## docfishwrinkle

glad to hear she made it. bubble hash is def worth the bag investment. good to see this experiment. i was thinking of doing but dont have stealth outside. looks like i will try to do one w/ a larger res next year. maybe along the lines of 20g or larger. christmas time is hopefully when ill be running again. gotta get legal. wifes in nursing program & if i get popped then her career is done. going for mri thursday. well looks like youll have enough smoke for a lil while. lol. take care


----------



## leafminer

I just got through with my coco bucket experiment. Not gone as far as flower because the one bucket I tried turned out to be one of the males.
For me, the experiment was neither a success or failure.
What I noticed was a big burst of growth about week three. But then the other plants caught up, and they ended up the same size. Oh well. I am thinking of making a modified bucket with an air line and hydroton in the bottom.


----------



## docfishwrinkle

dont give up give her another go around & this time will be a girl. LM what i did in these was to pop seeds in a coco/perlite mix @ 60/40 let em show sex then put into buckets. i used 3/4g pot to sex then put into a 3g bucket. this works great for couple reasons. one being ur saving time & materials & second when you put 3/4g pot into a 3g bucket the bottom of root ball will be setting directly on top of the 100% perlite layer. then its a matter of a couple days to hit the rez then jungle growth.


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> dont give up give her another go around & this time will be a girl. LM what i did in these was to pop seeds in a coco/perlite mix @ 60/40 let em show sex then put into buckets. i used 3/4g pot to sex then put into a 3g bucket. this works great for couple reasons. one being ur saving time & materials & second when you put 3/4g pot into a 3g bucket the bottom of root ball will be setting directly on top of the 100% perlite layer. then its a matter of a couple days to hit the rez then jungle growth.


 



:ciao:


----------



## tastyness

Wow- I totally love this thread. 

OK, this looks like the most excellent method and I'm going to give it a try. 
I'm starting with some seeds and would also like to try some clones from my current plants (in veg stage).  I'm curious what you would recommend for starting medium- I'm thinking either rockwool cubes or 16 oz cups with a mix of 60% coir and 40% perlite.  
Is there any special recommendation for preparing the coir?  The package simply says "soak in 9 gals of water or light nutrient solution"- I'm not sure I want to make that much right away. Or is it OK to mix it all up and keep it around.  
As soon as they are ready they will go into 3 and 5 gal buckets layered as described in the original post. Going under fluorescent (maybe CFL) for veg stage.  I have 3 plants in soil ready to go to flower- would it make sense to move them into masscoco buckets prior to the change to 12/12? 

Mass- thanks for this most excellent method.  The gardener in me gets the logic and benefits of mimicking mother nature. 

Cheers
Tastyness


----------



## tastyness

Here is what I culled from the posts- I'll be using this to help me layer the buckets.  If there are things I missed, please let me know


----------



## 4u2sm0ke

:ciao:  *tastey*..and  welcome..I  run  one  of  these  and  like  it  very much...*Massman  *aint  been around  in  a  while  but  I  can  help  where  I  can  ..and we  also  have  *docfish  *up  there  whos  helped  me  even  more  then  massman...(  No  pun  intended  massman)  I  get my  choir  in  a  block  that  has  4  at  1  inch thick  and  12x12..i  bust  it  up  and  soak  for  a  few  days  mixxing  well to  make  fluffy..I  then  put  in  tote and  mix  more  to  make  nice  and  fluffy...this  is  the  most  intense  IMO...and  then  I  use  his  Bubble  cloner to  make my clones..I  take  the  cocco  and  mix  it  with  my  soil  at  50/50..then  transfer  the  clones  to this  mix  and  then  after they  take  well..i  move them  to  the bucket..and  start  the   feeding  schedual  docfish  gave  a  few  pages  back...when  the  root  hit  the  Res  Ill put  in  flower...IMO..you  should  take  clones  from  the  ones  you  are  puting  in  flower  and  read  this  thread  100  time  like  I  did...remember  the  :exchange  :aok:  doc fish  is  a  great  source of  help  you  can PM  him  for  help  ..i  check  this  thread  from  time  to  time..I  have  started  one  last  week..hers wher she  is..ill  have my  own  thread  started  soon. Look  for  it in my  signature.....hope this helps  take  care and  b safe


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## tastyness

OK so I've sprouted some new seeds in Rockwool and some in mini coco buckets. What's a mini coco bucket?  Red plastic 16 oz cups with vermiculite on the bottom and coco on the top.  Hole punched in the side so that the overflow can come out.  I'm still molding up my coffee grounds and would like to move the rockwool babies into coco.  What size buckets would you recommend?  How long can the seeds go in the 16 oz cups do you think?  I only lost one of the seeds- came up nice then shriveled and died.  Can someone tell me what causes that?  I would like to do a grow journal and am not sure if I should post it here OR in the GJ section.  I have some clones going as well, the rockwool ones are not doing well.  I'm thinking they need some nutrition?  The ones in my coco seem to be doing great.  Again I used the 16 oz cups and a 60/40 mix coco/perlite to hold them.  I've got them in ziploc baggies and they are looking green and healthy.  Finding worm castings is proving to be a challenge.  I suppose I could simply use some nutes instead but I wanted to try and follow the thread as closely as possible, and I was planning on using the tea.  Sorry for rambling- the highlight of the day is checking in on the ladies


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## docfishwrinkle

wut up 4u & tasty? 4u do you sleep @ all? seems like you have so much going on in s.h.e.d., which u do. tasty id go for 5g buckets if you have the headroom. i do 3g. 16 oz cups will prolly last you no more than a month & prolly will be root bound to hell. imo i dont like to transplant more than once, especially when they are young. i start in 3/4g pots. more soil, but i sleep well @ night. shriveled plant that died just happens sometimes. mutants that mother nature doesnt want. i know mass told me & 4u to post in here as it is a tutorial so ppl would learn about these kick *** buckets. your rockwool sounds like you didnt ph your cubes first. WC can usually be found in your mom & pop nurseries even in winter. alright gotta go get my swerve on


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## 4u2sm0ke

tastyness said:
			
		

> OK so I've sprouted some new seeds in Rockwool and some in mini coco buckets. What's a mini coco bucket? Red plastic 16 oz cups with vermiculite on the bottom and coco on the top. Hole punched in the side so that the overflow can come out. I'm still molding up my coffee grounds and would like to move the rockwool babies into coco. What size buckets would you recommend? How long can the seeds go in the 16 oz cups do you think? I only lost one of the seeds- came up nice then shriveled and died. Can someone tell me what causes that? I would like to do a grow journal and am not sure if I should post it here OR in the GJ section. I have some clones going as well, the rockwool ones are not doing well. I'm thinking they need some nutrition? The ones in my coco seem to be doing great. Again I used the 16 oz cups and a 60/40 mix coco/perlite to hold them. I've got them in ziploc baggies and they are looking green and healthy. Finding worm castings is proving to be a challenge. I suppose I could simply use some nutes instead but I wanted to try and follow the thread as closely as possible, and I was planning on using the tea. Sorry for rambling- the highlight of the day is checking in on the ladies


 



:ciao:   Happy  growing..Im  in  agreement  with  *docfish*,,I  only  transplant one  time...from what  I read..these  are  to  flowr..so  not  much  veg...I  have  mine  in  my  signature if  ya  wanna  take  a  look  see..I  do  Lst  ( *L*ow *S*tress *T*raing )  and  when the  roots  hit  the  RES:lama:...Best advice  i  can  give  here  is  what  was  tol  to  me...Go  back and  read  up  on  Cacion(sp)  exchange:aok:..as fo t he  see  dieing..welcom to  the  wonderul  world  of  Beans...some  will  not  pop  some  will  mutat  some  will  shivel  up..just  a Bad  trait..I  dont  mess  with  tose  they  get  yanked  first.I  use  cat  liter bucket  about  4.5  gallons...well  gotta  grow  now..hope  to  see ya  have  a  bucket  going  soon...untll  then  take  care  and  be safe :bolt::bong:

*Docfish*....I  starte  my  own  wormcast  bin...My  nurseries  say  its  a  seasonal product...but  i  did  get  a  few  bags over  the  summer  for  Fall grow..

*Massman*  and  his  Fallowers..:48:


Thught  ya  would  like  to  see  the root  structure  of  the  Purple Bud  I  did outside. Sory  couldnt  keep perlite  togather:spit:..Hope  ALL  is well  in  Massworld


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## tastyness

Thanks guys for all the help.  Quickie- why is it taking so long for my coffee grinds to mold?  Does it work better covered or uncovered?  I'm not a coffee drinker but had friends save me some.  Do you keep the filters in there too?


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## docfishwrinkle

leave the lid off. reason being is so the spores can find the grounds. i toss the filter unless i throw it into the composter. usually about 3 days & top layer is all green. mmmmmmmm yummy.

4u yeah i just remembered that the nursery down the street mixes their own soil so they always have it on hand. i think they grow...lol. they always have pro mix bx & all the good stuff we use around here. wish i still had the pic of the mj plant that they had growing w/ a palm tree in front of there store. it was about 18" tall & female. went back to go buy later that afternoon for $15 but someone yanked it.


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## tastyness

OK- so I scored the worm castings.  Yipee! Starting some tea today to feed the two ladies in the grow room, and to have ready for when the babies can start having something other than water.  Am I understanding correctly that the tea described here should provide everything my babies need?  

I want to take the 3 seeds in Rockwool and move them into buckets ASAP.  The 2 survivors in the coco can wait for 2 weeks before I move them.
The buckets I'm planning to use are two leftover dishwasher detergent buckets from Costco & the one the laundry soap comes in- which is bigger.  
Is there some easy way to tell how big a pot is?  I never know what size mine are especially when I'm recycling.  One had 12kg in it/ the others 9.9kg but that is all the information I have.  They look kind of like the kitty litter ones above.
Do I have to do anything special because they are in rockwool and are being transplanted to my bucket? How deep should they be if the cubes go straight into the coco? 

I wonder if it is too cold in my house for the mold to have fun- it has been out all week and still looks totally like grounds.

I'll post pictures later of the current situation.  I spaced and left the clones uncovered too long yesterday and 3 of them are quite distressed.  I'm thinking that room is too cold as well.  Room is probably mid 60's-los 70's daytime, and cooler at night.


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## docfishwrinkle

tasty i wouldnt say the tea (mass' recipe) has everything you need right off the bat. id use it as a building block to get the beasties in coco to colonize so you can add other nutes in there so the bacterias (EM's) can break down what you want your plant to eat. i hope you can make some scense outta this mottled explaination. google effective micro-organisms & this will help yuo understand what tea/buckets are trying to accomplish. read also on N-P-K values & when to use these values @ different stages of plants life. these buckets can be used full cycle but generally intended for flower. some of the ingredients i use are blood & bone meal, kelp meal, muriate of potash, azomite, dolomite, w.c., compost, bokashi, blackstrap, epsom salt, jamacia & peruvian bat guanos, sea bird guanos & others. i dont have specific quantities just an eyeball & a hand. i steep for 48 hrs & never store longer than 7 days & this is still aerated.

IMO never use buckets for growing that contained harsh chems. you wouldnt eat outta that bucket would you or store food in it? i believe that chems would be adsorbed then leeched back to your plants. tsc has black buckets for 4-5 bucks.

just bury cubes to top & call it good or depending on size of plant you might want to get those roots as close to the res as possible. really need those pics to help you out better.

as far as clones a constant 75 is what i find works for me. mid 60's @ night & mid 70's during day would be good for flower.

toke to ya later


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## 4u2sm0ke

*tasty*  looking  forward  to  your  pics..please  post  some  in  here  as we  can help  and  others  can  learn  from...I  like  to  throw  some  moldy  coffee  grinds  in  the  whole  when i  transplant...also  if  the  grids start  to  dry  on ya  b4 molding  try  misting  some  mollases  on the  top  :aok:..


Im  gonna  go  against  *Docfish  *and  say  those  laundry  buckets  are  okay  as  long  as  ya  clean  out  very  well..I  thaught  same  thing  with  my  kitty  liter..but  was  told to  wash with  bleach  and  rince  well...I  havent  seen a problem..I  use them  for  my soil  grows  as well...


teas are  great  but  I  use  Fox farm nutes  as well.  okay  gonna  hit  my  bong  now:ciao


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## ghost_marine21

thanks mass  that helps me out alot for being a first time grower


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## docfishwrinkle

gm21 welcome. you stumbled upon a great thread. mass doesnt frequent here much anymore, but everyone here is very helpful, so dont be afraid to ask away.


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## HazeMe

Do any of you know if GH 3 part works ok with this setup? I know mass said you need to be careful with certain nutes. Has anyone used GH 3 part only? Also, you don't need to put a valve in or anything, right... Just a hole 2-3" from the bottom? I'm getting ready to make a run with some cindy and I've been eying this setup for a while. I like the idea that it is so simple. 

Thanks
HazeMe


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## 4u2sm0ke

Hazeme...welcome..:48:


IMO..the  GH 13 is  a  hydro nute..and  this  system  seems  to  be in the  middle  of  soil and  hydro...i  use  Teas  and  Fox  farm  nutes...if you  layer  the  medium  correctly  you  wont  need  much nutes..just  my  Thaughts..

*ghost marine21*....Welcome  these  are  Awesome  huh?:lama:



:ciao:   *Docfish*...:48:


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## docfishwrinkle

haze me if you wanted to go this route w/ 3 part id leave out the amendments & just do coco perlite layers as described. ppl do passive hydro w/ chems all the time.

4u whats up brutha? hows that red dragon cut doing? been looking @ barneys & that one is calling my name. just gotta scrape some funds together after the holidays. one last thing hows that nirvana cali-orange smoke, smell & did you get a pheno that lives up to its name?


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## 4u2sm0ke

Hello  *Doc*..Happy Hollidays:48:


I  have  a rooted  and  growing  clone of RD:yay:  Placed  the  LST  Dragon  in  flower on  the  4th..you  can  watch  he  in  my  signature....And its  deff..worth  scrapping  up  the funds  for:aok:  My  buddy  said  this  Star  gazer  is  a  Huge  produccer  as well..  will  e  flowering  some  soon  and  crossing  it:lama:  okay  gotta  grow  now

take  care  and  be safe:bolt::bong:


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## warfish

I have ran out of almost all mediums I had in the house and am currently out of cash for more of the stuff i'm familiar with and I have 2 seeds that may need a home.  I do however have a block of Coco and alot of vermiculite.  I just am unsure if this combination would work for this?  Any tips or hints on what I might be able to do?  

Thank you, 
Warfish


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## BOSTON BAKED BEAN

I am  very intereste in  this meth...   This is my first grow and i  have to try as much as i can so i can  find whats best but with the meth you can never over or under  feed ...  thanks for the info          
                             kris


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## fort collins ak-47

quick question for anyone with a good answer.
i have spent,but not moldy green tea leftovers.not cheap *** tea.it came rolled in ballls and is now after use,stringy and leafy.jasmine,smells beautiful.any help in top 2 layers of mass buckets?i would think that it would be benificial but want opinions from all of you.will be doing a whole mass bucket grow with pics.will take first pic 2nite .what is the easiest method for posting.imagebam or similiar?


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## fort collins ak-47

warfish said:
			
		

> I have ran out of almost all mediums I had in the house and am currently out of cash for more of the stuff i'm familiar with and I have 2 seeds that may need a home.  I do however have a block of Coco and alot of vermiculite.  I just am unsure if this combination would work for this?  Any tips or hints on what I might be able to do?
> 
> Thank you,
> Warfish



i would just use the coco and not add vermiculite.hope this helps.


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## fort collins ak-47

massproducer said:
			
		

> This is somewhat of a difficult question for me to answer because I have never grown with this method outside.  One big thing is that you have to look at these buckets just like you would look at any type of hydro set up.  What that means is maintenance.  There is just no way around that.  These buckets require more time then an average soil grown garden because they grow sooo dang fast.  My plants drink close to a gallon of water everyday during flowering, and you can not let coco dry out like you can with soil or it will mess with the cation exchange.
> 
> You may be better suited to go with soil outside unless you can care for the plants everyday.



i don't see why this could not be incorporated into 55 gallon rubbermade trashcans outdoor?bottom level goes up 12 inches not 2-3 inches.maybe 8"etc along with mass' plan.we may need to double up on the trashcans though for support?

if you live somewhere where you can do this,pics would be wonderful.


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## docfishwrinkle

4u grew a 5g bucket outside. did ok. needed a trash can. i think od grows would do better in a good "worked" soil then coco. did a experiment w/ toms in garden & one in a keg cooler w/ coco. garden soil was amended organically for 7 yrs. coco was amended w/ blood, bone, kelp meals, azomite, myco, bacillius, & guanos. both were feed teas. brewed 55g @ a time for 2-3 days w/ organics & molasses whole season twice a week.

about your tea leaf. id def grind it to coffee grounds consistancy b4 amending. helping it break down faster for plants. might want try drying it then chopping it in a micro processor. if you start getting into organics they will become a friend real fast. good for pulverizing dolo also.

ill try & find pics of my toms. garden one had vines that stretched good 10'. softball size fruits. coco did ok, vines were around 6'. junior sized softball. did you notice u posted 420.


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## fort collins ak-47

docfishwrinkle said:
			
		

> 4u grew a 5g bucket outside. did ok. needed a trash can. i think od grows would do better in a good "worked" soil then coco. did a experiment w/ toms in garden & one in a keg cooler w/ coco. garden soil was amended organically for 7 yrs. coco was amended w/ blood, bone, kelp meals, azomite, myco, bacillius, & guanos. both were feed teas. brewed 55g @ a time for 2-3 days w/ organics & molasses whole season twice a week.
> 
> about your tea leaf. id def grind it to coffee grounds consistancy b4 amending. helping it break down faster for plants. might want try drying it then chopping it in a micro processor. if you start getting into organics they will become a friend real fast. good for pulverizing dolo also.
> 
> ill try & find pics of my toms. garden one had vines that stretched good 10'. softball size fruits. coco did ok, vines were around 6'. junior sized softball. did you notice u posted 420.



thanks doc.plan on getting tea leaves as small as possible.lime is very fine.felt good about it,but wanted advice.you jumping in is beautiful.thanks.massproducer has given you way beyond mad props is why i asked here.you both rock.thanks,one love.

will be posting now if i can figure it out?


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## fort collins ak-47

did not work to well.


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## docfishwrinkle

fc when attaching pics hit attachment manager & make sure ur pics r resized w/in specs found in attachment manager. the pic manager can only be found in post reply & not in quick reply. direct links are frowned upon by mods here so in http replace tt w/ xx. they say it jepordizes safety, but everyother forum im on lets you & havent seen any ill results. whatever rules r rules.


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## docfishwrinkle

thats one way of posting em i guess. if you hit tab on bottom left of a post-says "post reply" hit this. then look @ bottom of text window & there is a link to resize & post pics. hope this helps.

id probably move your scrubber to outside perimeter of plants so you can get the light down lower to plants & it also is going to block lumens from getting to your pants.


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## RiskyPack

Just a small question.. could you mix in ashes from burned wood in the the lower levels? I've heard it should have excellent PK ratios for flowering.. Unsure on the levels though.. Any thoughts or suggestions on this?

I heard it might also create some PH problems, but maybe this could be solved by adding ph down?


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## docfishwrinkle

you could but in small amounts. ph will be effected so maybe go lighter on the dolomite. not sure on amounts always been leary about it. its npk is 0-1-3 on average. if you can afford to donate 1 plant to science then i would. substitute dolo w/ ash & see. ill see if i can dig something up on amounts. good question risky.

did some digging & found 1g of ash to sq meter. so figure depth @ 6" for average garden soil. should be more, i like 10" deep in garden....anyhow back to topic. 9sq ft x .5 ft deep=4.5cu ft. so 1/2g to 2.25cuft, 1/4g to 1.125 cu soil. id add 4cups to 1cu ft of soil. roughly 6 gal of soil to 1 cu ft of soil. i hope you could do 1 plant w/ ash & no dolo & rest of them as you normally do w/ dolo. be interesting to see. keep us posted.


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## admiral of the black

Please explain how you would self drip this system.  Also does the bucket need to be in small plastic pool to take run off?  If so do you leave the water in the pool or take it out?  Suggestions Please!!!


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## Dr. Manny Bowles

admiral of the black said:
			
		

> Please explain how you would self drip this system.  Also does the bucket need to be in small plastic pool to take run off?  If so do you leave the water in the pool or take it out?  Suggestions Please!!!



You want to remove any standing water you might have.
I use variations of these buckets and also soil potted plants, and have them in a 3x5 metal tray. The tray has a hose/drain on one side and is jacked up a bit on the other side so runoff runs to the drain and out into a bucket.


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## huffypuffy

I did the same thing as mass did, sort of. I put the hole in the bucket 2" up, but I put 3" of perlite (the hydroton sized perlite) in the bucket, then a regular 25% perlite and 75% coco mixture for the rest of the bucket. using coco a/b every third watering and having no problems. one plant is over 1/2 pound. Well it will be as I am in the 7 week of a 12 week cycle. I kept one coco pot in an 8 liter flower pot and it is the puniest of all. So coco in hempy style bucket is better. I have true hempys (25% vermiculite and 75% perlite) going now in veg just to see if it's different then coco in hempy style. still using coco a/b.


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## jackson1

huffypuffy said:
			
		

> I did the same thing as mass did, sort of. I put the hole in the bucket 2" up, but I put 3" of perlite (the hydroton sized perlite) in the bucket, then a regular 25% perlite and 75% coco mixture for the rest of the bucket. using coco a/b every third watering and having no problems. one plant is over 1/2 pound. Well it will be as I am in the 7 week of a 12 week cycle. I kept one coco pot in an 8 liter flower pot and it is the puniest of all. So coco in hempy style bucket is better. I have true hempys (25% vermiculite and 75% perlite) going now in veg just to see if it's different then coco in hempy style. still using coco a/b.



Good info huffypuffy. Personally, i think this system is as easy as it gets considering it's basically a manual hydro system and just about fool proof.


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## sharkattack1984

I grow in coco professional no perlite as coco had great drainage I use Cocos a and b and super thr 
ive feed them 3 times a day start of 3ml fisrt then 10ml till flowering then 20ml of a + b super thrive then introducE canna boost then 3 weeks into flower ill use pk 13/14. Untilled the last 12 days and then pure water my room.   Temp is 25.7 humidty. 65% that's just without.  Ventilation.


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## sharkattack1984

I grow in coco professional no perlite as coco had great drainage I use Cocos a and b and super thr 
ive feed them 3 times a day start of 3ml fisrt then 10ml till flowering then 20ml of a + b super thrive then introducE canna boost then 3 weeks into flower ill use pk 13/14. Untilled the last 12 days and then pure water my room.   Temp is 25.7 humidty. 65% that's just without.  Ventilation.


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## Oldtyme

Ooh. Year old thread bump, but I had questions.

I'm a firm believer of the KISS method of doing things.....but this is TOO simple to be true.  

So. It's a bucket w/ a hole...then layers of stuff & water / nutes?  

Would 3 or 5 gallons be best? (I have both)(also...my room is only 6 foot high, so will I need the extra 2 gallons of root space?)

Are you saying that w/ the Coco that pH is "not that important"?  I only ask because I do have high pH hard water (about 330ppm from the tap & 8ish pH)(well water)

Anyways.  I just put my coffee grounds in a bowl while I await answers  

(ooh.  Also.  How late is "too late" to add clones?  I have two that are about 4-5 inches now & one that is about 7)


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## 707NewGenGrower

wont the standing water at bottom eventually cause root rot?


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## Oldtyme

I dunno NewGen:  I've wondered about that too.

Just an update.  I did two buckets (the 3 gallon kitty litter buckets).  I filled up to the hole w/ hydroton.  The rest I used perlite.   I had my doubts this was going to work, but it is : )


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## 4u2sm0ke

707NewGenGrower said:
			
		

> wont the standing water at bottom eventually cause root rot?


 

No...the hole in the bottom allows for water to escape..So when ya water/feed...it arrates the water in the bottom...hence rfreshes the water   I even used an air stone and pump in one..but didnt add any bennefit i could see...I also tried the drip..but again  no real diffrance...


*oldtyme*....congrats on the start up...I too used the kitty bucket...How did you ammend your layer's?   and throw up some pics of ya girls when ya get a chance...I would love to see them..untill then take care and be safe


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## Oldtyme

I just used hydroton up too the drain hole........the rest is perlite. 

I read other places that they only used perlite throughout the entire bucket.....I figured with the hydroton I wouldn't have to worry about the perlite coming out of the hole. 
I might try something else next time if others think I should layer it like the original post. 
I liked that they were started in 4 inch rockwool cubes as I know they were getting water (after transplant) & I could tell when they were needing it.  I've been using GH Flora 3 part nutes. 

Anyways.  Here's a picture.  Do they look OK?    I know they are a LOT bigger than when I planted a couple weeks ago.   (ignore that other dirty plant over there...lol.  That's me trying to learn LST : )

(FYI: The bucket plants are AK48 (so I'm told)(AK48 is supposed to be more indica, but those leaves are SO narrow I'm starting to wonder)


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## 4u2sm0ke

look nice my friend...ALlthough the coco is in the mix...the reason for massproducer to make the  layers as he stated...was to create the Earth like structure..will be interesting to see how yours Turn out as Ive never seen MJ growing in straight perlite...But lets not get this thread sidetracked By another Hempy style  eh?  :48:


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## docfishwrinkle

old tyme, 1st off howdy & second what you have now are hempy buckets. how often are you watering? im not real sure but i believe you're gunna want to water them 3x's a day. look into threads by artvanolay, he uses gh 3 part w/ em.


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## Oldtyme

Yeah. I didn't mean to sidetrack with another 'method' but they were so similar : )  I think the very first page someone mentioned "so it's basically a hempy bucket"... and that's when I went googlein' & decided to try this method.
(a big reason was.....that I read the perlite was reuseable & often produced better plants in the next grows.....that & nobody answered my question.lol.)

The do get daily water right now.   That's why I liked the big rockwool cubes.  They hold a lot of water.   It's been nute/regular/regular/nute/etc & they seem to be loving it.  I just went downstairs & they look bigger than they did yesterday.


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## docfishwrinkle

Sounds like u have it down. GL


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## 4u2sm0ke

:yay:   Grow Baby Grow


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## Darkling

Thanks Mass. I am trying to follow and re-create your modified hempy system, but I am new to all of this.

Can you elaborate on your layers and what you put in them? I follow up to and including the second layer from the bottom but then it gets a little fuzzy.

Thanks.


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## Darkling

Thanks Mass. I am trying to follow and re-create your modified hempy system, but I am new to all of this.

 Can you elaborate on your layers and what you put in them? I follow up to and including the second layer from the bottom but then it gets a little fuzzy.

 Thanks.


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## leafminer

I have one or two buckets I made up, I've tried them with other types of plant too. In general I find that early growth is faster, but that they end up the same.


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## tastyness

Hi,
As I'm taking my last few girls to their final purpose I thought I would share these pictures.

These were some clones from my first grow with Mass Coco's method.
Under flourescents - mix cool/warm total 6 bulbs on 18 hrs a day.  With these buckets you can never over water, pests seem minimal and even if you do miss a watering- they tend to bounce back well.

I'm wondering does anyone know a way to hurry the flowering along.  Turns out I need to vacate the area by June 30th.  I switched to 12-12 about 10 days ago and 3 days ago switched to HPS light.  Not sure how far I can get them in 25 days.

Any ideas much appreciated.  It would a shame to have these beauties die for no reason.


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## 4u2sm0ke

Plants look nice and healthy...Unfortunatly you cant speed the Flowering up..try  and figure out how ya can finish them up..take care and be safe:bolt::bong:


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## DCkush

Would it be possible to just add soil in with the coir and perlite after the first steps of just perlite and coir.. I have a unopened bag of fox farm and it has a grip of beneficial things in it.


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## __ATM__

ive heard havnt tried yet but switching to 13/11 instead of 12/12 will hurry up things but to the cost of yeild read somewhere and it seemed to have alot of backing on the site i found it on i will try to find and post link


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## mrcane

Sounds Great, Thanks
I will mark this and some day when I have my way, I will grow!!!


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## Time4Plan-B

Bad luck tastyness no way to speed along flowering but tbh the size of those you wil have pleanty of bud although immature will still stone you and the best part is you grew it yaself.
Mass ive not looked back since i went 'hole in the bucket coco grows' sorry i do it the other way but cannot bring myself to state the bitter old mans name he lent to the 'buckets with an ole in dem'
Lol
T4


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## weave2768

i  would like to know if i let my beautiful trainwreck plant stay in vegie stage one more week (which would make it five weeks) make the buds bigger and better then flowering it now at four weeks which it looks awsome at 16 inches an has 96 pistles on it now!!!!  any tips would be helpful thanks!


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## 4u2sm0ke

> has 96 pistles on it now!!!!




:stoned:

you counted them?....maybe better let it go to 100


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## e2paradise

i like it ,  why the marijuana so beautiful??????


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## The Hemp Goddess

LOL--Because it was NOT grown with LEDs.

Please go away.


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