# 1st Micro/Stealth Grow - Vanilla Kush & Lowryder #2



## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 25, 2012)

Hi MP'ers.  This is my 1st time growing period, so take'er easy on me.  

I started this grow about 23 days ago (from seed).  I'm using a PC case and a Lowryder Grow Box (I know, I know, but it's all I can afford/do, as my space is extreeemely limited).

I'm in this for a personal stash, 2 plants at a time.  More than anything I need to learn now vs later and get that part of it out of the way, and get my system down.

I would appreciate any help or advice at all, especially as I get into flowering.  My plants are very small and in the area of the country I am in, you don't go big unless you want to go to jail and be on the news. 

Current state of both plants are below.  They are a bit runtish, but are short/small strains by nature.  I have improved/worked on a # of things to get them going. 

The Run down:

Vanilla Kush Feminized 
Lowryder #2 Auto Feminized

1 gallon pots (tall and skinny, all I can fit in there)

FFOF soil 
General Organics GO Box for nutes (BioMarine, BioWeed, BioThrive, BioRoot etc..,)

Filtered PUR water used for watering, recently got a Milwaukee digital PH monitor, am currently feeding at PH of 6.2.

Temps the last week or two have been a bit high: 75-81 F.
Humidity levels low, bought a Vicks steamer to raise it a bit today and put it in closet, levels are around 35-47% now.  I can't do much more about that.

Small mite/gnat problem that seems to be under control, spray once a week with organic pesticide (herbal/oils).

Most recent pics are below.  Fed her tonight at 9pm, watered her last on Weds with plain PH water and molasses (unsulphured).

VK looks pretty healthy and I'm relatively happy.

I am worried a bit about the Lowryder #2, looks somewhat sick, some leave discoloring and until tonight, lots of curling and drying out.  I lowered her from the lights and again raised the humidity some, put some perlite in both their pots today and aerated the soil a bit by hand. 

Thanks for reading! Pics are from last night, they look a tad better today and a tad bigger...


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## OGKushman (Feb 25, 2012)

Pic 3....Oh wow those leaves look crazy! Like some jungle weed or something! Is it romaine? 

Looking good, in pic 3 it looks a little lime green so it might need some more nitrogen. 

Sending some mojo your way!


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 25, 2012)

Thanks OG - fed them tonight with the full-line of GO's, the LR looks rough to me up close.  I sure hope that helps.

But, I have a feeling that I have too much nitrogen on the LR2 (first two photos) and too little in the VK (last 2 photos, lighter green plant).  Or maybe too little in both, I can't tell, wish the pics were better.

LR2 leaves are bluish-grey and dark, tears on leaves with lime green in tear areas, a couple of smaller leaves curled up and dried up top.  Bottom fan leaves are yellowed-out - so I don't know, they aren't getting much light though, it's bushy as hell.

I tried flushing on Weds., but maybe the soil was too gunked-up, and I shouldn't have added the molasses. 

I need to save the LR2 as she's a week away from flower! Not sure how to get the Nitro up now - the soil is soaked into overflow.


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 25, 2012)

good luck to you, i have yet to see a PC grow box setup go to finish, hopefully your the first.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 25, 2012)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> good luck to you, i have yet to see a PC grow box setup go to finish, hopefully your the first.



Really? that's not good, although i've seen others do it successfully online. With these small auto plants and 2 ft. plants, I don't see why you couldn't do it relatively well for a personal stash I guess.  I don't expect more than an oz tops out of two plants, lucky if I get more I suppose...and that would be fine.

Thinking my soil is water-logged and blocking out the nitro btw.

Thanks for the responses - would love any help as I go.


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 25, 2012)

the autos i grow end up 3ft+ not including the pot, given i dont grow lowryders though or do any training, so i cant say how tall that strain will get.

kushes love to grow bushy and have lanky branches. 
"Vanilla Kush grows to about 55- 60cm in height indoors and takes her cannabis seeds 60-65 days to flower"

just a heads up.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 25, 2012)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> the autos i grow end up 3ft+ not including the pot, given i dont grow lowryders though or do any training, so i cant say how tall that strain will get.
> 
> kushes love to grow bushy and have lanky branches.
> "Vanilla Kush grows to about 55- 60cm in height indoors and takes her cannabis seeds 60-65 days to flower"
> ...



The others who did micro grows with LR2's that I've seen, ended-up betwen 12-14" from what I've seen - it's so comically short i'm not worried.  They can get pretty big, but, my pots are soooo small (deep, but not wide at all, about 1 gallon).

I do have a full 24" of space for the VK, and the whole cabinet for her, I think she'll be ok, as her pot is so small, can't see her getting too big either.

I'm thinking of just going organic for my next round and keeping it simple, now that I know that I need to use more  soil aeration amendments, how to dial-in the PH for my water, and how to control my grow environment better (even though it is not ideal, it "should" still work well enough).  I need to use wider pots too - or even smart pots (but am worried about those being too messy as I have to use very small trays in this space).

Thanks again man.


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 25, 2012)

while pot size will stunt a plant somewhat, its not a good way to control heigth. what will happen is it will get rootbound and just stop producing or show stress/ hermy. ive had a sativa in a 2 gal grow bag that hit almost 6ft tall before i had to transplant it.

heres my sour kush in a one gallon bucket (about 4 1/2ft), started eating itself alive due to being rootbound, but this was pretty much harvest time. i did no training and its mother was lanky also.

View attachment 185048


also in the background do see that taller container, ive grown autos in them (1 gal, tall and not wide) they get pretty big in them, but became rootbound.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 26, 2012)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> while pot size will stunt a plant somewhat, its not a good way to control heigth. what will happen is it will get rootbound and just stop producing or show stress/ hermy. ive had a sativa in a 2 gal grow bag that hit almost 6ft tall before i had to transplant it.
> 
> heres my sour kush in a one gallon bucket (about 4 1/2ft), started eating itself alive due to being rootbound, but this was pretty much harvest time. i did no training and its mother was lanky also.
> 
> ...



Yes sadly until I start growing in my 1.6+ gallon plus bucket, I won't get a good yield from these, if I get half an oz out of the LR2 at this point, I'll be happy for a first timer.  

Thanks for the info that says I should start flowering the VK next week at 30 days, I think your examples are good reasons why I shouldn't wait very long, and accept the personal-sized yield. 

I am not a heavy smoker, I can hold onto an oz for a few months, so I'd love to do it right and get a small yield that's quality, than blow out the house with it.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 26, 2012)

If you can see this, his plant looks very much like mine in regards to color of the leaves and state they're in now.  I have 4-5 weeks left on her (the Lowryder #2).  So if I get a result like this, it is all I'm expecting. I'd be completely happy with that. And he grew his in a pc case.

hxxp://forum.grasscity.com/micro-grows/804444-lowryder-2-pc-grow.html


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 26, 2012)

Just wanted to mention that this thing has saved my grow as an odor eliminator, for other micro/stealth growers, I don't even need ONA or filters when I use it:

hXXp://www.amazon.com/Professional-...CW9W/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1330244093&sr=8-1


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 26, 2012)

Dragonfly2921 said:
			
		

> If you can see this, his plant looks very much like mine in regards to color of the leaves and state they're in now.  I have 4-5 weeks left on her (the Lowryder #2).  So if I get a result like this, it is all I'm expecting. I'd be completely happy with that. And he grew his in a pc case.
> ]


 
i dont see a grow, he may or may not have even grown in a pc case. like i said hopfully your the first i see, good luck to you again 
you notice alot of PC grows are labled "my first grow"


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## Grower13 (Feb 26, 2012)

green mojo to ya


:48:


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## Hushpuppy (Feb 26, 2012)

My friend; you have chosen a difficult way to start growing for the first time, but your results are not bad so far. I am not a soil grower so My knowledge is lacking here but I would say don't use molasses at this point because it has its own challenges that can aggrivate seasoned growers. The key for you is to make sure you have mixxed some very good soil with proper ammendments and such for proper aeration before getting any seeds started. 

It has been my understanding that plants will grow to match their root structure. You are concerned about not having big enough planters and at the same time wanting to have small plants. I think you are working in contradiction to your needs. check out this thread on doing "micro-grows". I think it will be a real eye opener for you as harvests of 1 oz routinely came off these plants which were grown in 12oz containers.
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58204&highlight=micro+grow

Just a side note, I think your ph may be a little low for soil. most peeps here running in soil tend to keep PH closer to 6.8-7.0. And for the temp issue, make sure you got good air flow through the grow area to pull the heat out and give them fresh air. Green mojo for you girls.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 26, 2012)

Hushpuppy said:
			
		

> My friend; you have chosen a difficult way to start growing for the first time, but your results are not bad so far. I am not a soil grower so My knowledge is lacking here but I would say don't use molasses at this point because it has its own challenges that can aggrivate seasoned growers. The key for you is to make sure you have mixxed some very good soil with proper ammendments and such for proper aeration before getting any seeds started.
> 
> It has been my understanding that plants will grow to match their root structure. You are concerned about not having big enough planters and at the same time wanting to have small plants. I think you are working in contradiction to your needs. check out this thread on doing "micro-grows". I think it will be a real eye opener for you as harvests of 1 oz routinely came off these plants which were grown in 12oz containers.
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=58204&highlight=micro+grow
> ...



Thanks Hush, appreciate all of the info.  Surprisingly the LR2 has been the most troublesome, still have yellowing and what looks like either a burn or a deficiency.  The VK looks great today.

I will raise my PH as where I'm at doesn't seem to be working very well regardless, and will just do a straight watering most likely, later in the week (no molasses).

The temps are high 77-81 now usually, but, there is good air flow and I have a fan blowing right on the LR2.

I'm thinking of going organic for my next grow, to hopefully take some of the hassle out of all of this.  Need to learn the best way to go there for my situation.

Thanks again.

PS - you can see the poor new growth on the LR2 - stunted-looking leaves with yellowing and some spots/discoloring in general.  It's kind of fuzzy.  The VK looks pretty healthy.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 26, 2012)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> i dont see a grow, he may or may not have even grown in a pc case. like i said hopfully your the first i see, good luck to you again
> you notice alot of PC grows are labled "my first grow"



Hehe yeah just his "results" showing...so I'll assume that's possible.

I have no other way right now of doing this, other than growing it in a small case or PC box, so, I'm determined to make it work for me. 

Thanks for the mojo everyone.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 27, 2012)

I've determined that my soil's PH is too low after testing it - apparently it is in the 5.5 range right now- ugh.  So, I have deformities.  Plant is still growing, but this needs to be dealt with.

My soil is still thoroughly soaked at the moment.  

What is the best way to raise your soil's PH level at this stage? Any suggestions from vets? 

I did raise the PH of my last watering to 6.8 yesterday to try and flush it out some, and just added some Cal-Mag solution to it (prob shouldn't have done that). 

Should I mix-in some dolomite lime over the next few days? I realize it is not going to remedy itself overnight and it's best to let it rise slowly...not sure how much lime to add though...(1 gal container)

Help!


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 27, 2012)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> the autos i grow end up 3ft+ not including the pot, given i dont grow lowryders though or do any training, so i cant say how tall that strain will get.
> 
> kushes love to grow bushy and have lanky branches.
> "Vanilla Kush grows to about 55- 60cm in height indoors and takes her cannabis seeds 60-65 days to flower"
> ...



BTW - thanks for the reminder. I am growing my VK in a separate box that has 2 ft" of vertical space (a little less with lights up top) and the whole width of the box to herself.  Beautiful plants, may take a clone, but, am not sure about that yet (no room).

She is getting close to 30 days old now and is looking strong, I think I will force her into flower this week, if not immediately, or she'll get too big.  I've kept the lights close up until now, and she's remained short and bushy.  I also trimmed or fimm'd a stem and now she's got 2 main branches growing at a 45 degree angle each way at least (versus straight up).

My PC box is my "auto" box - I am/was torn on the container size issue - but from what I can tell, these little 1 gal white pots I have will do just fine for the smaller auto's I think.  The key is to get my system down and perpetually grow these suckers every two months and stagger a bit.  They start flowering so fast it's ridiculous.  I can already see the main cola forming on my Lowryder #2 and it's not even 30 days old (thus my need to save it now).


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 27, 2012)

Dragonfly2921 said:
			
		

> BTW - thanks for the reminder. I am growing my VK in a separate box that has 2 ft" of vertical space (a little less with lights up top) and the whole width of the box to herself.  Beautiful plants, may take a clone, but, am not sure about that yet (no room).
> 
> She is getting close to 30 days old now and is looking strong, I think I will force her into flower this week, if not immediately, or she'll get too big.  I've kept the lights close up until now, and she's remained short and bushy.  I also trimmed or fimm'd a stem and now she's got 2 main branches growing at a 45 degree angle each way at least (versus straight up).
> 
> My PC box is my "auto" box - I am/was torn on the container size issue - but from what I can tell, these little 1 gal white pots I have will do just fine for the smaller auto's I think.  The key is to get my system down and perpetually grow these suckers every two months and stagger a bit.  They start flowering so fast it's ridiculous.  I can already see the main cola forming on my Lowryder #2 and it's not even 30 days old (thus my need to save it now).


 
like i said dont grow lowryders so couldnt tell you on height on t hem but they might work out for you if starting to flower now, i had grown poison dwarf from G13 and the grew about 6 inches when they where flowering 

as for the kush, is it 30days since the seed went into the ground or 30 days since it has sprouted? trying to force flower it before its ready will just cause it to stretch even more (something you dont want) i would wait till it has alternating nodes and preflowers on the main stem before trying to flower, thatll help keep the plant more compact and will start to flower quicker with less stretching after the flip. to me it dont look ready.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 27, 2012)

Here's some pics of the Vanilla Kush (left) - there's pre-flowers on the stems and it's growing two main stalks with flowering/bud sites appearing already. So, I thought it might be good to start 12/12 tonight or tomorrow...

This thing still has 2+ months to go, so I don't want a monster, it's doing much better than I thought it would for a first timer.  No yellowing really, just some light green on the new growth.  Minimal damage on the older leaves.


I also bought some dolomite lime (Epsoma) and a bag of Happy Frog potting soil, and mixed up a new smart pot in my PC case with a lot of perlite and a little Happy Frog jump start fertilizer for a new Northern Lights Auto Fem (left). I may have to do waterings in the tub with the smart pot now.  We'll see how that works in such a small space.  But, nothing like fitting a 2 gallon pot in there with plenty of horizontal space for maybe some scrogg with my screen.  My CFL lighting is adequate, but not overly powerful.

You can see the Lowryder #2 on the right and the damaged leaves.  Letting her dry out and then just straight PH 6.8-6.9 water later in the week.  Then will start feeding her the Go Organics Bloom/Flowering schedule next weekend most likely.

I added 2 tsbp's of the dolomite to the LR2 and mixed it into the soil as evenly and as deep as I could by hand.  I'm hoping this brings the PH up and gets her right over the next few days.  Not much more I can do at this point.

I suppose I'll add a little more lime in a few days if the PH doesn't rise, unless that's not recommended.

Thanks for the feedback Nugs.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 27, 2012)

PuffinNugs said:
			
		

> like i said dont grow lowryders so couldnt tell you on height on t hem but they might work out for you if starting to flower now, i had grown poison dwarf from G13 and the grew about 6 inches when they where flowering
> 
> as for the kush, is it 30days since the seed went into the ground or 30 days since it has sprouted? trying to force flower it before its ready will just cause it to stretch even more (something you dont want) i would wait till it has alternating nodes and preflowers on the main stem before trying to flower, thatll help keep the plant more compact and will start to flower quicker with less stretching after the flip. to me it dont look ready.



I will take your advice and hold-off a few days on going to 12/12 with the Kush. 

If my LR2 goes another 6 inches in flowering I'd be happy and have plenty of space.  But right now she's so darn ugly and beat up from the soil PH problem, it seems, I am just trying to salvage what I can out of her.  I'm pretty sure I have a major lock out going on at the moment.  And I'm pretty sure it'll take another 2 weeks for the lime to really raise that PH and a couple of waterings/feedings...and by then I'll only have maybe 2-3 weeks left til harvest.

I was given bad/conflicting advice about PH levels, that's for sure.  

My soil is completely acidic at 5.5 right now and has been for the last 2 weeks at least - thankfully the VK has not reacted as badly to it as the LR2, which again looks like crap right now.  Frustrating.  I have to believe this is my problem.


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## PuffinNugs (Feb 27, 2012)

I like soil Ph around 6.5. Nothing over 7 or under 6


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 28, 2012)

That's what I'm shooting for...thanks much for the help/mentoring, again.

Have already noticed some improvement since this AM in the color of the leaves (healthier green, better texture in some, haven't seen that since it started frankly) but the damage is fairly extensive and my soil is smelly and water-logged.  Gave her a light flush tonight to get the lime going and need that stuff to dry out thoroughly, trying to avoid a transplant later this week.

Operation save my baby continues...


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 28, 2012)

Eh, so much for that.  The Lowryder #2 looks like it's on the brink of death, deformed/underformed leaves with bright-green edges, darkly colored fan leaves, hasn't grown much in a few days now, new flowers are bright green, but stunted and shriveled-looking.

I put her in a new, slightly bigger pot, on top of some perlite, got rid of as much of the old soil as I could, kept what the roots were clinging to.  They looked like they had balled-up some where the drainage holes were on the bottom of pot, but, I didn't see any glaring problems with them, nor did I smell any rot etc..., but they were pretty stringy and not overly abundant.

I think it was a bad mixing job by me with the soil (not enough perlite for one) and I probably over-watered/fed her and of course the acidic PH.

If anyone is even reading all of this crap, I put some Happy Frog around her root base/old FFOF soil, with more perlite and about 1.5 tbsp's of dolomite lime (Epsoma) then spray watered the top of the soil some to get the Happy Frog ferts working a bit.

If she doesn't noticeably improve or show signs of coming around or growing in the next 3-5 days, may ditch her and concentrate on my VK and new NL auto fem.

The VK is looking pretty healthy and bushy, minimal damage to her leaves - want to keep it that way now.  I'm concerned about her small pot and really am testing my patience to start flowering her, as I approach 30 days of veg.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 29, 2012)

Sooo, after all this time I realize I should have never been using PH Up/Down liquid solutions and preferably an organic-based soil (like Happy Frog) with the GO Organic Nute Box line.

My PUR tap water has a 6.8 PH after sitting out for the day and adding some Chlorine remover - but am now wondering if the damn Chlora-X is harming things as well, no answers there, but that shouldn't affect PH or make it acidic? 

Any ways, on the right track I think, time for patience, let 'em dry out completely, hope the lime works, maybe get some Earth Juice PH Up tomorrow, and feed normally, without the PH solution/adjustment to the water, later this week.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 29, 2012)

Here is the Vanilla Kush, bushy as hell.  I have 2700k flowering lights (3) on her now, temps are up there with the 3 23w bulbs (5800 lumens for one plant).

I am planning on starting 12/12 tonight at midnight on her, she is just getting too big already, and I'll keep the lights fairly close, plus we'll be at 30 days from seed tonight at midnight.  

Any objections/words of advice about doing that? She has a looong flowering period of 9-10 weeks.  I am going to do auto's from here on out. 

Think I have the nute/ph thing down now, surprised the VK has survived my ignorance, and this small pot and this crappy soil mix so far, hope she makes it.  Fed her early this AM on her first bloom/flowering schedule to get it going, with "proper" non-PH'd adjusted water this time.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Feb 29, 2012)

Final update for a few days...barring new developments...the Nirvana Northern Lights Auto Fem popped-up this morning, after planting in the pot (not germinated) on Monday afternoon (not even 2 days) in the Happy Frog soil with some extra lime and lots of perlite in a smart pot. 

The Lowryder #2 horror is also below.  I fed her this morning (bloom/bud feed) with the GO's organic nutes I've been using, as I hadn't since transplanting, and felt she needed a boost to get right with the new Happy Frog soil/lime added.  As you can see, under/ill-formed leaves, discoloring, and the flowers/bud sites look dried-up a bit.  It's a train wreck right now. Upsetting and I've lost some sleep over it. (was counting on having some nice kind to smoke in early April, I have NONE now and won't!)  

The reason I want to try and save her is, one, to see if I can do it, and two, there must be at least 8-10 bud/flowering sites (can't see them all here) all over this thing, the GO's nutes really do wonders if applied correctly I imagine.  Crossing my fingers there's enough time for her to recover, only have about 4-5 weeks left on her.  I have 3 flowering 2700k CFL's on her now also, and fans blowing directly on her (hot temps in low 80's usually, and the RH is too low for my tastes - 27-35% normally). I have to learn how to grow in those conditions.   I have no other choice.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Mar 2, 2012)

Right now, the Vanilla Kush is my pride and joy, I hope she makes it and fits inside this 2ft. case - about 9 weeks left of flowering (lol) to go - going on her 3rd day of FL at midnight tonight. 

These are supposed to be "short" plants - but I need her to come-in around 20" tops (typically 21-24") to make it - I am not LSt'ing in this little pot.  The CFL's have kept her short and bushy - the General Organics nutes have been incredible considering this crappy soil mix job I did.

Can't wait to see/smell her buds in a few weeks hopefully.


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## Roddy (Mar 5, 2012)

Just jumped in and wanted to mention about the 2 plants/one pot deal...this might hurt you more than help. I understand you're looking to keep the gals short as to height limitations, but this likely will only rob one of the gals of root room while making both gals fight for room, meaning both will suffer. 

Vanilla kush was a good grow! Watch her for stretch and lankiness, I think most kush pants like to stretch a bit, as has been my experience so far!


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## Dragonfly2921 (Mar 18, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Just jumped in and wanted to mention about the 2 plants/one pot deal...this might hurt you more than help. I understand you're looking to keep the gals short as to height limitations, but this likely will only rob one of the gals of root room while making both gals fight for room, meaning both will suffer.
> 
> Vanilla kush was a good grow! Watch her for stretch and lankiness, I think most kush pants like to stretch a bit, as has been my experience so far!



Hey Roddy - haha - thanks for the comment - yes she stretched quite a bit for what was "supposed" to be a short plant - that I had to kill her off - sucked.  That was actually one plant with two big nodes - I could've managed the height but couldn't deal with the 60+ day flowering period and smell here - live and learn.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Mar 18, 2012)

Long time since I revisited this thread, but the Lowryder 2 is about 2 weeks from harvest I think - I had all kinds of ph issues as mentioned above - learned from it - but she's hitting the home stretch now and if I get a half oz or less, that's fine.  Only 9" tall, lots of thick buds all over, but, nothing impressive - it's my first grow under difficult conditions, should be successful.

So, here's the update, will check in after harvest early April - can't wait. 

Oh yeah I upgraded to a UFO Blackstar 100W 6-band LED and have a veg box and flowering box (PC Case) now - which has really helped with the flowering.  She is ugly.  I have 2 Cream caramel's that just sprouted in my 2 ft veg box, will see how I do with those the next 60-65 days.


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## Dragonfly2921 (Mar 22, 2012)

Gettin' fat - maybe a week or so away from harvest. 

Looks like i'll be your first PC grow to finish Puffin'.  It can be done!


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