# The Flattop Treatment



## PencilHead (Jan 31, 2010)

Going for total canopy control here. Took out the top 4 or 5 nodes and lollipopped crap outta everything else. Left the longest suckers on the top 2 nodes so I've got doubles on those 4 branches. Planning on stretching the lowers up toward the top crown--if they wimp out and don't make it, I'll chop them. That leaves me with maybe 20 bud sites, all of which should get decent light. Shooting for a 30-36" diameter plant at about 4-5 feet high--I want monsters.

Think they're ready to go 12/12? They're only 3 of them and they're about 2 months old and in 18 gallon chum buckets.  WW from seed/Organicare Pure Earth Aeration (coco coir formula)/all 6 FF nutes/a dash of Gramdma's and a dash of Epsomes as needed.

I'm experimenting here since I've gotta break my grow down this summer to go assume my alternate identity. Does anyone see any problems I may have with this foolishness?


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## nouvellechef (Jan 31, 2010)

They look very healthy. No probs at all, they are gonna produce alot of goodness man. You got the height in there it looks like to let her go. You prob already know her strain. So have idea of stretch. Look like plenty of light, so that will keep her down to minimum. Nice work.


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## umbra (Jan 31, 2010)

nice. the more budding sites the better. so much depends on how the plants react and canopy management.


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 1, 2010)

Looks good PH!  Can't wait to watch you flower these girls out!


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## diablo_cannabis (Feb 1, 2010)

those things are gonna be the monsters you want for sure! So you have three plants each in its own 18 gal bucket? How many lights and what wattage are you running? I cannot wait to see what you come up with! It is gonna be amazing.

I grow in 5 gal buckets 4 to 5 plants per 1000W mondo hoods and by harvest time my plants are 6' tall and I can expect 1lb to 1.25lbs per light. I trim away all the lower larf crap and concentrate only only on big buds. I have trellis netting set up to pull the branches out as they grow.


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## PencilHead (Feb 1, 2010)

Diablo, that's amazing.  Nice to see someone trying different things.

Right now, I'm running 2 600w MH conversions, and will flip over to HPS bulbs when I go 12/12 of course.  I'm contemplating picking up another 400 watts since I think I can keep the room cool with a bit more light.  I rotate and reposition every day so I get good penetration anyway, but like you said, these girls are going for the ceiling when I hit flower.

Home Depot had these buckets for like $6 so I grabbed a few, popped holes in the bottom, picked up some 20" water heater drip pans.  I've always grown in 5 gallon buckets as well but always noticed how totally root bound my end product was when I broke the buckets down.  I know I'll have watering and nute adjusting issues until I get it dialed in correctly--that's the big reason I went with the coco coir this go.

I'm a big proponent of lollipopping, but as DOS warns, watch out for mold on those big old colas living in the South.  But I do get some massive buds that way, I just have to keep the wind on them constantly.

Thanks to everyone for checking in.


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## PencilHead (Feb 7, 2010)

Pulled the top ones down more, pulling the bottoms up--really flattening out the tops now.  We'll see.  I'm having fun anyway.  They're 22" from the dirt and about 28" in diameter today.  Two weeks into flower.

I've got to edit in here and say I got this idea from DirtyOlSouth.  Thanks, bro.


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## dirtyolsouth (Feb 7, 2010)

:headbang2: :yay: :clap: :yay: :dancing:  :dancing: :yay: :clap: :yay: :headbang2:

Hellz yah!

Ya can't tell I like it can ya?  Very cool bro... that's a winning profile for sure... awesome pruning and training...  Talk about a very even bud site profile for lots of medium large buds with more light getting to MORE bud surface....  Much better than bottle-necking all those auxins into a few tops and your botrytis risk I'll bet dropped a ton vs lollipopping too...   I'm gonna pull up a chair for this one fo sho! ​


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 8, 2010)

I'm really liking it to man!  I tried my hand at LST this grow, and I'm sold on it!  I have yet to harvest it yet, to see if the yeild is any better doing it this way, but it definately uses the space better than a single cola grow.  My canopy didn't stay as even as what you have there, but it was pretty even non the less.  A few stray buds decided they wanted to grow long and thinner, than others that decided to be short and dense.  

I was a little nervous around 5 weeks into my grow just seeing what looked like was going to turn into a bunch of popcorn, but they all ended up filling in and fattening up.  It's just a little nerve wracking at first, casue I'm used to seeing one main huge cola, with a little bit of smaller stuff.

I can't wait to see how this turns out for you man!  I think, like me, you'll be a changed man...lol...I'll let you know how yeild was once drying and everything is done.


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## PencilHead (Feb 11, 2010)

legalize_freedom said:
			
		

> I'm really liking it to man! I tried my hand at LST this grow, and I'm sold on it! I have yet to harvest it yet, to see if the yeild is any better doing it this way, but it definately uses the space better than a single cola grow. My canopy didn't stay as even as what you have there, but it was pretty even non the less. A few stray buds decided they wanted to grow long and thinner, than others that decided to be short and dense.
> 
> I was a little nervous around 5 weeks into my grow just seeing what looked like was going to turn into a bunch of popcorn, but they all ended up filling in and fattening up. It's just a little nerve wracking at first, casue I'm used to seeing one main huge cola, with a little bit of smaller stuff.
> 
> I can't wait to see how this turns out for you man! I think, like me, you'll be a changed man...lol...I'll let you know how yeild was once drying and everything is done.


 
I've got Purple Maxx--my grow guy doesn't cary Snow Storm U--and Gravity to toss at them this grow.  I'm going with the Maxx for the first time with this feed today.  I'm hoping to see the results I keep reading about from you guys who have tried it.   

  LF, didn't you say you started with half strength on the Snow Storm initially?


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 12, 2010)

Hey man I sent ya a PM but I thought I'd better answer it here to just incase someone rfrences this in the future.  I fed the SSU at full strength, at the flip to 12/12 just following the directions.  I did cut my nutes and the SSU back to 2/3 of what I had been feeding when I fed the 2 applications of Gravity per the directions.....my plants were varocious eaters, and I never did hit max nutes with these throughout the grow, I think I was very close at 1 1/2 strength when I had to cut back for the Gravity feedings.  I will find the max with the clones though, once I flip them to bud, my very first feeding is going to start at 1 1/4 strength and then I'll work up from there until I get that slight tip burn.


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## PencilHead (Feb 12, 2010)

Thanks for hitting me back on the PM.

Dropped the Maxx on them yesterday.   Using these huge buckets and going into coco at the same time, I'm still moving very slowly on my dial in.  

The switch to coco's odd--never seems to dry out and the plants don't droop when they need water.   But on the upside, I'm feeding the crap out of them and they're growing in a mad sick fashion.  My room's 4.5' X 8' and these 3 plants may push me out of there completely.  They're so broad now--30" to 36"--that I can't LST them anymore; no place left to go but up.

Nothing to do now but kick back and look cute while I wait out the stretch.


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## PencilHead (Feb 22, 2010)

Threw the Purple Maxx to them feeding before last.  This is at 3 weeks 12/12 today.  The buds you see are all there are, no pop-corn, no air bud, no nothing.  I've only got the three though. 

This experiment may contain some fatal error I'm not educated enough to foresee, but I'm having so much fun right now that my teeth may start photosynthesising.


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## monkeybusiness (Feb 22, 2010)

Wow Pencilhead, awesome! looks great


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## loolagigi (Feb 22, 2010)

super, super super, nice training, mojo at cha


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## dman1234 (Feb 22, 2010)

these are awesome pics, does anyone ever use or hear of using 
tomatoe cages?


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## dirtyolsouth (Feb 23, 2010)

Dude...

Wow & wow...:hubba:  Look at those bangin canopies!  You know me...  I love the lazy lollipop, flat-top!:aok:  They are really gettin cola-tized too.   Nice, nice, nice...  I really look forward to the final stretch, bro.

Peace!


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## PencilHead (Feb 23, 2010)

dman1234 said:
			
		

> these are awesome pics, does anyone ever use or hear of using
> tomatoe cages?


 
Thanks, D.  I've seen pics of tomato cages around MJ and even thought about it.  Maybe if I was outside.


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## PencilHead (Feb 23, 2010)

I can't believe how these things are eating--I'm doing 3 gallons, full strength FF full line plus the Maxx, every 6 or seven days and looks like I'm about to go to every 5 days.


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## ishnish (Feb 23, 2010)

:aok:
looks awesome!
got my chair..
:watchplant:


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 23, 2010)

looking good man!!!


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## ssjric (Feb 28, 2010)

Every things looking great PH!!! I can't wait to see the end product!!!


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## ishnish (Feb 28, 2010)

:aok:  :48:   :watchplant:


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## PencilHead (Mar 1, 2010)

ssjric said:
			
		

> Every things looking great PH!!! I can't wait to see the end product!!!


 
Yeah, life sucks--now I gotta expand my drying closet.  Damn it, man.


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## PencilHead (Mar 8, 2010)

5 weeks 12/12 and eating me outta house and home.

Did Purple Maxx through last Saturday.  I've grown this strain out several times so I know I got extra stacking from the Maxx.

Cogitating on whether to Gravity or not--I'm in the land of 
Botrytis, and Botrytis loves the fatties.


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## legalize_freedom (Mar 8, 2010)

dang man....I've seen some funky buds before...but that one looks just like a gallon jug!

Very nice man...I didn't have a problem with mold either time I used Gravity, but I have alot of air flow, and keep my RH below 50% in flower.  If your worried just try it with one, but you'll have to move your light up, which will mean haveing to raise the pots that don't get the gravity.


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## subcool (Mar 9, 2010)

With buds that size IMO the only way to stop the botris is to lower the temps slightly and get more air going.
Even then some strains just really are think and wet and just get attacked.
I wish I had some magic solution for ya but I had never even seen mold until I moved out west its just not common down south.

I would be thinking of removing a few fans to create some air movement but other than adjusting your growing environment which I am not sure you can do more.

Sub


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## PencilHead (Mar 9, 2010)

Thanks for looking in, Sub.

I've only had the one bout with the Bot, and that was pretty much self-inflicted (worked it out and kicked its butt thanks to DOS's experiece).

I'm in the deep south and I'd never seen or heard of Botrytis before I got serious in this sport.

I'm running 4 oscillators and a couple of inlines. I run one oscillator at dirt level and have one in each opposing corner of the room; the 3rd is at ceiling level for cooling. I'm stepping up the smaller inline to an 8" for air exchange only.  Also, I can leave the door open a lot of the time--my room's off my studio where I work hard all day (wink, wink).  The RH in the house is acceptable as the central HVAC keeps it below 50 usually.  I need to rig my personal space AC to drain the condensate rather than burning it back into the room.  

I rarely run over 50 RH in my grow room, so I hope I'm cool.

What about running fans at nite?  Good idea?  Anyone?


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## subcool (Mar 9, 2010)

My fans never shut off and Id be heading to Lowes for a dehumidifier I have 3 and pipe in em to the outside no dumping buckets

Sub


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## nouvellechef (Mar 9, 2010)

subcool said:
			
		

> My fans never shut off and Id be heading to Lowes for a dehumidifier I have 3 and pipe in em to the outside no dumping buckets
> 
> Sub


 
Mine don't shut off either, almost a year straight. This was only $175 and I use the filtered watered sometimes. Best investment ever late flower.


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## PencilHead (Mar 9, 2010)

What should my desired RH be in late flower?

Lemme know--I can throw some money at it like everything else.


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## nouvellechef (Mar 9, 2010)

50 is not bad. I run 38 with just a simple oversize one. Doesnt run all the time either. I have great water, so i can use it, as is. Sq ft is 12x12, it fills 18gal bi-weekly. Surprising huh? Alot of moisture.


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## PencilHead (Mar 9, 2010)

nouvellechef said:
			
		

> 50 is not bad. I run 38 with just a simple oversize one. Doesnt run all the time either. I have great water, so i can use it, as is. Sq ft is 12x12, it fills 18gal bi-weekly. Surprising huh? Alot of moisture.


 
Yeah, well you're in the only North American rain forest up there.  You got rain, I got oceans--everywhere.

I'm reading 56 outside and 46 inside my room today.  When the outside RH soars, so does my inside RH.

My to do today is to pipe the condensate from my personal space AC to the outside, see what that does for me.  Otherwise, looks like a couple hundred bucks for a dehumidifier.

Thanks.


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## PencilHead (Mar 10, 2010)

subcool said:
			
		

> With buds that size IMO the only way to stop the botris is to lower the temps slightly and get more air going.
> Even then some strains just really are think and wet and just get attacked.
> I wish I had some magic solution for ya but I had never even seen mold until I moved out west its just not common down south.
> 
> ...


 
Will this stress the plants out being 5 or 6 weeks into flower?


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## nouvellechef (Mar 10, 2010)

No


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## legalize_freedom (Mar 10, 2010)

PH  I have my fans running all the time in flower, and when my RH hits 47 or so I kick on the dehumid.

I've never had a problem with mold or mildew (knock on wood) and It's pretty humid up here a mile away from Lake Eire.  I just don't see how it would really have a chance to set in though with all the air I have moving around... and my buds have always been really dense...even these sat buds were, not like the Afghani's, but they were in no way light and whispy!


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## PencilHead (Mar 10, 2010)

Do you guys run all fans, even oscillators, or are we talking the inlines only?


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## legalize_freedom (Mar 11, 2010)

In bud I run all fans 24/7 after about 4 weeks in, otherwise I only run oscilateing during lights on, but I run my exhaust 24/7 all the way through.

I'm sure haveing it once is what your problem is...you got a little shell shock is all...so I can understand being worried.  keep the RH below 50 and air moving.  In the summer when it's real humid here I ran the dehmid during the dark cycle, because that is when my RH seemed to soar.  Try to keep your temps down...and pray...lol....good luck bud, I've never grown in the south, so I don't know what your going through...and hope I never have to.


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## PencilHead (Mar 12, 2010)

40 days into it, the buds are beer bottle size now--20 on each plant .  The Maxx really stuck it to them.  

I'll hit 'em with the Gravity probably this week-end.  They get much bigger, I'll have to figure out how to get a front-end loader in there at harvest.  Yeah, I got problems, problems and trouble...

Trouble...
Trouble, trouble, trouble, trouble
Trouble been doggin' my soul since the day I was born
Worry...
Worry, worry, worry, worry
Worry just will not seem to leave my mind alone


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## legalize_freedom (Mar 15, 2010)

I haven't been on much lately bud...but wanted to let you know I peaked in here...things are looking great!


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## dirtyolsouth (Mar 15, 2010)

Dude...

YOU are a HOOT~!:holysheep:  

"I'm worried about botrytis... Where's the Gravity?" ​
LOL...  Bud rot is my nemesis.  I run all my fans and inline fan 24/7 although I do have a thermostat fan motor speed controller that ramps it down to around 30-40% during lights out but that is more due to stealth during the daytime when my lights are out and people are more likely to drop by.  I will conquer this botrytis crap...   I've come a long way in my approach to canopy management.  I'm LOVING your flattop treatment PH...  Perfection in a canopy imho...   but I'd shy away from the Gravity personally.  I must testify that I have a full bottle on the shelf too... I think the key is doing exactly what you did and also choosing strains that are a bit less dense as well.  If you end up with beer bottle buds it's definitely time for a good kind of worry... One thing I'm starting to do is harvest a bit earlier after reading Sub's thoughts on choosing the proper ripeness for the type of strain.  In the past most of my bud rot has happened in the 11th hour when I have some amber and I'm waiting on more...  I hope I dig cutting the indicas cloudy and crosses a bit less amber cuz I'll bet that alone will eliminate my bud rot.  If I grow 70+ day strains it's gonna be strains like Bubba K that dont get quite so dense.

I just picked up some Greencure fungicide too.  I've been doing some preventative applications of GC in hopes of helping to avoid not only bud rot but also any chance of PM happening in my grow.  Do you ever get that down your way?  I have some clones that came originally from Cali and the guy I got them from has been battling PM so my guard is up...:hubba:  From what I understand, it's pretty rampant out west...

Anyhooo...  Your plants look amazing PH...  Easy on the agua, por favor...

Peace!


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## PencilHead (Mar 15, 2010)

Thanks, Legal and Dirty both.  

Well, I hit the Gravity.  I may live to regret it.  So I redid my venting this week-end.  Went from passive intake only to another active intake as well, reset my fan timing devices, dropped my AC setting to 76.  And if doing a lot of worrying and fussing helps, I'm in good shape.

Oddly enough, the buds are finally starting to open up a bit, separating from the two largest pieces at the bottom some.  It's almost like when the branches start falling outward toward harvest time, but with the buds doing it.  I've never had numerous massive buds like this, so I've never noticed that phenomenon, but I'm happy with the development.

I've gotta, gotta jar this crop--have to shut down this summer go be someone else for a while, sell a few copies.  

Anyone knows a good Santeria or Obeah woman, have her read a chicken's entrails for me, okay?


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