# Problems in Michigan



## mswit10296 (Jan 30, 2012)

Just got this from a forum to which I belong. If you live in Michigan please take the time to read this and react as your conscience and convictions so directs you. We are loosing this fight right now. They may succeed in putting the genie back in the bottle on this one here in Michigan. The fact that the folks behind this are public officials using public resources to subvert the public will in order to project their morals on the majority is the most disturbing aspect of this. 

Body of Notice I cut and pasted:

Hi Folks, I am writing you today to share important news and information from the front. Because you have been writing, calling and visiting your Reps. In historic numbers, the legislature is scrambling to adjust their position on these Bills. They are now saying that they will be submitting new Bills. We have heard there will be five of them. We have also heard that they are losing support in the legislature. The people are in the fight and they will not be ignored. What this means is we must continue to apply pressure. We must keep doing exactly what were doing. We must get a lot more people involved. We need to be sending them thousands of letters a day. The one thing the government has proven is that they cant be trusted with our law, patients and caregivers. For the next month we must educate the public. Continue to lobby the government anyway we can. We will win this fight.
We are fighting this fight on many fronts. We are doing around the clock conference calls to determine and maintain the correct course of action. We will not leave any stone unturned.
The people know the facts of our case. We enjoy their support. They are watching with interest how we are treated by the government. Over the last three years, the amount of terror that has been heaped upon our community is beyond belief. I have listened in horror as the attorney general and members of the legislature have slandered and libeled the sick and dying. They now ask us to trust them immediately after they introduce an abundance of Bills that will land patients in jail. At this point the government must implement this law as voted on by the public. 

Please keep sending emails. Weve got their attention. Now lets finish the fight. Click the link below to quickly send your letter to every Rep or use one of our prewritten letters.

Please visit both of the links below to send a clear message to the legislature. Time is short. Please help us and yourself by defending the act. "http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/ email/MMMA_minorml_email_form_letter1. html">Call, Visit Or write Your Rep. Before It Is Too Late! Click
We Must Save The Michigan Medical Marijuana Act!Help us save the Michigan medical marijuana act by clicking here! It only Takes a Couple of Seconds to sign This petition

"http://michiganmedicalmarijuana.org/"& gt;Keep up with the latest news by Clicking Here

Here is a summary of the House Bills and what they would mean to patients and caregivers.

HB4397 Forbids a club who charges a membership to have events. This means almost all social events would be illegal. 
HB4463 Would forbid felons from being caregivers
HB4661 Is the School, Church and Daycare law. This law would nullify the Act.
This law would punish the sickest patients in Michigan. Those that live in areas of high population are much more likely to be impacted. For instance in Holland, 85% of th cities population was excluded, because of drug free zones, from the protection of the act. The national average is 80% of a metro area. In areas where studies have been conducted, minorities and poor people were much more likely to be impacted by drug free zones. In one state the enhanced penalties were absorbed by minorities to the tune of 96%. 
Hb4834 This is the add a photograph Bill. This Bill goes much further than that. It opens the law up to law enforcement having full access to our registry data. It would provide a shopping list to police. You have t read the complete text of these Bills.
HB4850 Would make it illegal for a caregiver to transfer to a patient that he/she is not connected to. It also makes it illegal for a patient to acquire meds from anyone other than their primary caregiver. The penalty for both patients and caregivers is a felony conviction which bar the defendant from asserting the Medical defense. This means if a caregiver had 72 plants and 15 ozs. They would be facing 7 years in Prison and a $500,000 fine. They would be tried under the PHC/CSA. Patients with 12 plants and 2.5 ozs. Would be facing 4 years and a $20,000 fine.
HB4851 Redefines a doctor/patient relationship. Patients would be denied the Medical defense if the doctor did not follow the Standard of Care. In addition this Bill would redefine what a locked enclosed facility is. This Bill would mean prison for patients and caregivers.
HB4852 This Bill would subject all of us to the whims of local zoning boards. Folks in many localities know what this means. Townships would be able to outlaw growing patients and cargivers.
HB4854 Would make it illegal for a caregiver t advertise. If the caregiver does advertise they would be looking at a year in jail.
HB4856 Would make it illegal to transport marijuana except in limited circumstances. A patient or caregiver would subject to 90 days in prison.
HB5286 would allow police with a search warrant the right to check the registry prior to execution of the warrant. 

Thanks,
Blueberry

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## Roddy (Jan 30, 2012)

*HB4463 Would forbid felons from being caregivers*

This IS the law already.


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## pcduck (Jan 31, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> *HB4463 Would forbid felons from being caregivers*
> 
> This IS the law already.



So is HB4850

Maybe they are duplicating some of the laws so that the citizens understand them better.:confused2:


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## Roddy (Jan 31, 2012)

Hey Ozzy, ever wonder how these threads get sidetracked??? Yep, it's comments like this that I've come to expect from the pot stirrer. Congrats duck, you can't keep out of a thread (hey, who was it said that???) without making it into a mudslinger. IGNORE!!!

Hey Herm, you want to complain about pollution, why not start with the one who seems to antagonize most of these??


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## Herm (Jan 31, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> *HB4463 Would forbid felons from being caregivers*
> 
> This IS the law already.



No it isn't.  The law as it stands right now is people with a felony conviction for drugs can't be care givers.  You seriously need to stop and do a google search before you make ANY posts.


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## Hick (Jan 31, 2012)

without reading the bills, herm, I think...you and roddy said THE SAME thing. "Both" of you are saying convicted felons can NOT be permitted care givers.

"HB4463 Would forbid felons from being caregivers
This IS the law already."... <-- roddy

"The law as it stands right now is people with a felony conviction for drugs can't be care givers."...<--you
:confused2:.. 

just in case you missed this..
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showpost.php?p=750672&postcount=16
thanks


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## Herm (Jan 31, 2012)

There are hundreds of different felonies out there other than drug convictions.  If we are saying the same thing he needs to learn what the words hes using mean.

HB4463 would change it from drug felonies to all felonies.


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## pcduck (Jan 31, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Hey Ozzy, ever wonder how these threads get sidetracked??? Yep, it's comments like this that I've come to expect from the pot stirrer. Congrats duck, you can't keep out of a thread (hey, who was it said that???) without making it into a mudslinger. IGNORE!!!
> 
> Hey Herm, you want to complain about pollution, why not start with the one who seems to antagonize most of these??



Roddy you really need to chill. :rofl::rofl: 

I believe many people on our forum are just getting tired of your act.

Not everything on our forum is about you,even though you believe it is:rofl::rofl:

Where was I slinging mud?:rofl::rofl:


Maybe you should go back to bed then get up on the right side with a better attitude.

And please do ignore me, you have mentioned this so many times and never do.


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## Hick (Jan 31, 2012)

Herm said:
			
		

> There are hundreds of different felonies out there other than drug convictions.  If we are saying the same thing he needs to learn what the words hes using mean.
> 
> HB4463 would change it from drug felonies to all felonies.



ahhhh.. that clears that up


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## NorCalHal (Jan 31, 2012)

Now, thats some CRAZY restrictive bills MI has got there. Have fun with that.


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## Roddy (Jan 31, 2012)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Roddy you really need to chill. :rofl::rofl:
> 
> I believe many people on our forum are just getting tired of your act.
> 
> ...




You are correct, as I've said, gunshy from the latest rounds. Used to seeing nothing but mudslinging from you, and figured this was yet another innuendo slant at us "slow MI folk".  My bad and I apologize, duck!


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## Roddy (Jan 31, 2012)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Now, thats some CRAZY restrictive bills MI has got there. Have fun with that.



And it only looks to get worse....


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## Roddy (Jan 31, 2012)

Hick said:
			
		

> ahhhh.. that clears that up



Yeah, in a nice and friendly manner, no less!


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## pcduck (Jan 31, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> You are correct, as I've said, gunshy from the latest rounds. Used to seeing nothing but mudslinging from you,



I have not been mudslinging, just correcting your misinterpretations/misunderstandings and of your constant arguing of your misinterpretations/misunderstandings.


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## Herm (Jan 31, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Yeah, in a nice and friendly manner, no less!



I come here to get accurate information.  As you can see I post very little in the years I have been a member here because I try to only post when I know the information I am posting is correct.  Posting incorrect information in a forum like this can really screw people over so before you hit the submit button you should probably check to make sure that the information you are posting is correct.


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## pcduck (Jan 31, 2012)

:yeahthat:


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## Roddy (Jan 31, 2012)

Herm said:
			
		

> I come here to get accurate information.  As you can see I post very little in the years I have been a member here because I try to only post when I know the information I am posting is correct.  Posting incorrect information in a forum like this can really screw people over so before you hit the submit button you should probably check to make sure that the information you are posting is correct.



And by all means, if you see anything incorrect, correcting nicely makes for much nicer conversations and less angst.


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## Herm (Jan 31, 2012)

Or you could just stop posting things that are wrong.


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## Locked (Jan 31, 2012)

Herm said:
			
		

> Or you could just stop posting things that are wrong.




Herm that just won't happen....Roddy enjoys arguing himself in circles too much.   Nice to see the list of peeps getting tired of His crap getting bigger and bigger. I guess it is so bad that he now unloads on pc for no reason at all.


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## Roddy (Feb 1, 2012)

Herm said:
			
		

> Or you could just stop posting things that are wrong.



Yep, I suppose we're all human and mistakes happen. Asking for someone to not make any....well that's not thinking clearly, is it??


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## Roddy (Feb 1, 2012)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> Herm that just won't happen....Roddy enjoys arguing himself in circles too much.   Nice to see the list of peeps getting tired of His crap getting bigger and bigger. I guess it is so bad that he now unloads on pc for no reason at all.



Yeah, duck is just a huge victim, now isn't he??


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## Roddy (Feb 1, 2012)

Herm said:
			
		

> I come here to get accurate information.  As you can see I post very little in the years I have been a member here because I try to only post when I know the information I am posting is correct.  Posting incorrect information in a forum like this can really screw people over so before you hit the submit button you should probably check to make sure that the information you are posting is correct.



Most of what you read below ANY of the opening posts is merely OPINION, opinions are neither right nor wrong, they're opinions. Reading anything below the OP and expecting NEWS really isn't gonna be overly helpful, the news is the OP and the rest is our thoughts, feelings and OPINION.

I missed one word, sorry about that. Sure am glad you corrected me, I see I wasn't the only to have missed it?


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## Grower13 (Feb 1, 2012)

Definition of OPINION
1
a : a view, judgment, or appraisal formed in the mind about a particular matter b : approval, esteem
2
a : belief stronger than impression and less strong than positive knowledge b : a generally held view
3
a : a formal expression of judgment or advice by an expert b : the formal expression (as by a judge, court, or referee) of the legal reasons and principles upon which a legal decision is based
&#8212; opin·ioned adjective


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## Herm (Feb 1, 2012)

Its better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you are a fool than open it and remove all doubt.


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## Roddy (Feb 1, 2012)

I've said it before and am happy to say it again, PROVE ME WRONG!! Anyone can sit around and scream how wrong someone is, back your words. I've said this several times in many threads and no one proves anything, just keeps on pretending their right. Sorry, but you telling me I'm wrong doesn't mean much unless you can back it.

The fool is the one who keeps mouth shut and never learns. Discussion helps all, it gives others' points of view and allows for learning, I'm ALL for that.


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## Herm (Feb 1, 2012)

I don't understand why you are okay with a post first and find out if its correct later.  If you aren't sure about something you post as fact, why bother posting it?  Are you saying that I'm wrong?

hxxp://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admincode.asp?AdminCode=Single&Admin_Num=33300101&Dpt=CH&RngHigh=

R 333.125   Revocation; nullification.
(b)  That a primary caregiver no longer qualifies for  approval  under  the 
act based on a felony drug conviction.

R 333.103   New registration  application;  qualifying  patient  and  primary 
caregiver.
(vi)  A primary  caregiver  shall  authorize  the  department  to  use  the 
information provided on  the  application  to  secure  his  or  her  criminal 
conviction history to  determine  if  he  or  she  has  a  felony  conviction 
involving illegal drugs. 

(15)  "Primary caregiver" means a person who is at least 21 years  old  and 
who has agreed to assist with a patient's medical use of  marihuana  and  who 
has never been convicted of a felony involving illegal drugs.

Now I have had to waste my time finding this information because you felt the need to talk about something you didn't understand.


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## Locked (Feb 1, 2012)

Herm you are wasting your time.....Roddy is *that* person. 
I am sure you hve met his type in real life. He can never be wrong.


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## Roddy (Feb 1, 2012)

Herm said:
			
		

> I don't understand why you are okay with a post first and find out if its correct later.  If you aren't sure about something you post as fact, why bother posting it?  Are you saying that I'm wrong?
> 
> hxxp://www.state.mi.us/orr/emi/admincode.asp?AdminCode=Single&Admin_Num=33300101&Dpt=CH&RngHigh=
> 
> ...




NO, I agreed I missed the word and apologized? The rest of my comments weren't aimed at this thread in general.


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## Roddy (Feb 1, 2012)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> Herm you are wasting your time.....Roddy is *that* person.
> I am sure you hve met his type in real life. He can never be wrong.



Seems some think they are never wrong if all they can do is scream how someone else always is??  Once again, I'm happy to admit when wrong, WHEN I AM. I have many times in the past (why, I've admitted mistakes in a few different threads in the last few days, for example  ), am not afraid to admit it at all.


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## pcduck (Feb 1, 2012)

Herm said:
			
		

> Its better to keep your mouth shut and have everyone think you are a fool than open it and remove all doubt.





			
				HL said:
			
		

> Herm that just won't happen....Roddy enjoys arguing himself in circles too much.





			
				HL said:
			
		

> Herm you are wasting your time.....Roddy is *that* person.
> I am sure you hve met his type in real life. He can never be wrong.



:yeahthat:




			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> The fool is the one who keeps mouth shut and never learns.




That is no different then the fool that opens their mouth and still never learns.:ignore:

Roddy I have proven you wrong so many times and you just argue your self in circles trying to prove yourself right.(see all of your above posts) This is even after I have used the links that you supplied trying to prove yourself right. You are the most confrontational poster since White Widow and that one other dude mfg.com(or something like that).


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## Locked (Feb 1, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Seems some think they are never wrong if all they can do is scream how someone else always is??  Once again, I'm happy to admit when wrong, WHEN I AM. I have many times in the past (why, I've admitted mistakes in a few different threads in the last few days, for example  ), am not afraid to admit it at all.




:holysheep: 





			
				pcduck said:
			
		

> :yeahthat:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Lol....those are some names from the past for sure.


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## mswit10296 (Feb 2, 2012)

OK  Not sure what the heck all that was about.  It was not my intention to start an argument with that post.  I found a flier at my MM dispensary and that led me to look into this on a local forum of MM users.  I know I am not brightest bulb in the pack.  I am however somewhat confident you will discover there are subtle differences between the bills.  No, I did not take the time to compare each version word of word.  For that I sincerely offer my heart felt apology for being that much of a Neanderthal.  However I think Ad hominem attacks on myself and others is very unproductive for our common cause.  Remember we are advocating for the same cause, all of us!   Would it not be easier to use your editorial diatribes to promote legalization of cannabis and not demonizing others?  

During my discussion on another forum I was asked what had changed here in Michigan since MM was passed in 2008 with almost a 2/3 margin.  I cut and pasted that response below.  It is my opinion of what is going on here and is NOT a statement of fact.

My response to the question what has changed in MI since 2008?:

During the 2010 mid term elections we elected a lot of conservatives at the state and local levels. One of the people of note is Rick Snyder our governor. Bill Schuette is our AG and is VERY conservative and who will not stand for this abomination on his watch! Both Schuette and Snyder have recall efforts going on at this time. I think they may succeed with Snyder but I doubt they can muster the necessary volunteers to get enough signatures to unseat Schuette. The southern half of Michigan is governed for the most part by conservatives and 2010 just made that worse. I think they are trying to get as much headway for their cause before the conservatives are handed their *** on a platter in Nov. There are several local prosecutors of the conservative persuasion that need to make their constituents aware of their moral crusade against this abomination. This is a testosterone infused pissing contest and has nothing to do with medicine, public health, or any other reason that could be intelligently debated.  And they have unlimited funds which we were nice enough to send them via our taxes. By proposing what they are it will fragment the opposition by offering too many choices to fight with limited funds. Which we have the honor of providing out of pocket to fight the money we sent in with our taxes to fight a cause passed by 2/3 of the electorate. It is exactly what is wrong in DC. The House of Representatives is a prime example of what I am talking about. For God sakes everyone GET OUT AND VOTE TO THROW THE BUMS OUT or not your choice!    

Also another fun Michigan Factoid:

I read an article in a local newspaper (weekly 5 to 10 pager) unfortunately I tossed the paper.  But here is a synopsis of that article as I remember it.  Again I apologize for any inaccuracies.

The local cops had a sign they towed behind a vehicle warning folks about random drug inspections ahead. Of course they did not set up such a roadblock. What they did was set up a car presumably a speed trap and observe how people reacted to avoid the inspection. The sign stated drug dogs are in use at the inspection site. They had folks pulling u-turns and everything. When they interviewed the sheriff his stated reason for this was something like: I can't stand the thought that some people were driving through his jurisdiction with illegal substances on board. (that is not a direct quote I don't have the article anymore for an exact quote). I think the ACLU got involved with this and they have suspended this entrapment scheme. Oh make no mistake about this they CAN put the genie back in the bottle where she belongs as they see it.

I will refrain from posting here in the future. I don't want to be responsible for dragging the forum down with unchecked facts.  No matter how inconsequential they may be.  mike


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## Roddy (Feb 2, 2012)

pcduck said:
			
		

> :yeahthat:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*That is no different then the fool that opens their mouth and still never learns.:ignore:* Oh trust me, I learn plenty.... :rofl: :rofl: The only thing you've ever proven to me is you can't even follow a dispensary vs caregiver discussion.


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## Herm (Feb 2, 2012)

mswit10296 said:
			
		

> OK  Not sure what the heck all that was about.  It was not my intention to start an argument with that post.  I found a flier at my MM dispensary and that led me to look into this on a local forum of MM users.  I know I am not brightest bulb in the pack.  I am however somewhat confident you will discover there are subtle differences between the bills.  No, I did not take the time to compare each version word of word.  For that I sincerely offer my heart felt apology for being that much of a Neanderthal.  However I think Ad hominem attacks on myself and others is very unproductive for our common cause.  Remember we are advocating for the same cause, all of us!   Would it not be easier to use your editorial diatribes to promote legalization of cannabis and not demonizing others?
> 
> During my discussion on another forum I was asked what had changed here in Michigan since MM was passed in 2008 with almost a 2/3 margin.  I cut and pasted that response below.  It is my opinion of what is going on here and is NOT a statement of fact.
> 
> ...




No one was referring to you they were talking about Roddy.


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## pcduck (Feb 2, 2012)

And then the circle starts again:rofl:


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## Roddy (Feb 2, 2012)

pcduck said:
			
		

> And then the circle starts again:rofl:



I'm happy to quit when you are, my friend.


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## Roddy (Feb 2, 2012)

*However I think Ad hominem attacks on myself and others is very unproductive for our common cause. Remember we are advocating for the same cause, all of us! Would it not be easier to use your editorial diatribes to promote legalization of cannabis and not demonizing others? *

Some can't understand the "we're all on the same sides" thought and attacks...well, glad I'm not the only one seeing such actions!


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## pcduck (Feb 2, 2012)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I'm happy to quit when you are, my friend.




If that is the case why don't you just quit posting? 

I am not the one that everyone is arguing with. If I was wrong I am sure and would expect one of our members would correct me but they don't. 

I wonder why? Maybe because I am the one that is not wrong


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## Roddy (Feb 2, 2012)

And again, most of these threads have NO RIGHT OR WRONG, some pretend they know all and are right all the time, doesn't make it so. MOST of these discussions are THOUGHTS, OPINIONS and DISCUSSIONS! So, ANYONE can scream how right they are, and some pretty much do all the time.

The only mistake I made was one word in this thread, deal with it! Or go on and on and we'll have fun all day like this. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:


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## pcduck (Feb 2, 2012)

pcduck said:
			
		

> And then the circle starts again:rofl:



Does anything more need to be said?:rofl:


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## Roddy (Feb 2, 2012)

*The local cops had a sign they towed behind a vehicle warning folks about random drug inspections ahead. Of course they did not set up such a roadblock. What they did was set up a car presumably a speed trap and observe how people reacted to avoid the inspection. The sign stated drug dogs are in use at the inspection site. They had folks pulling u-turns and everything. When they interviewed the sheriff his stated reason for this was something like: I can't stand the thought that some people were driving through his jurisdiction with illegal substances on board. (that is not a direct quote I don't have the article anymore for an exact quote). I think the ACLU got involved with this and they have suspended this entrapment scheme. Oh make no mistake about this they CAN put the genie back in the bottle where she belongs as they see it.*

Sounds about right for MI, some counties are "BOSS HOG" counties lol! 

I was on my way to Vegas one year (several years back, maybe '01) When I saw a sign on one of those retractable booms, the sign was still facing out, but the arm folded in...sign read something to the effect that drug checkpoint ahead. No clue whether there ever was a checkpoint or not, but it did make for a scary drive. Can't recall which state this was, could have been Nebraska or further west.


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## Roddy (Feb 2, 2012)

*GET OUT AND VOTE TO THROW THE BUMS OUT or not your choice!*

I have to ask again, what candidate choice is there??


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## Hick (Feb 2, 2012)

mswit10296 said:
			
		

> OK  Not sure what the heck all that was about.  It was not my intention to start an argument with that post.  I found a flier at my MM dispensary and that led me to look into this on a local forum of MM users.  I know I am not brightest bulb in the pack.  I am however somewhat confident you will discover there are subtle differences between the bills.  No, I did not take the time to compare each version word of word.  For that I sincerely offer my heart felt apology for being that much of a Neanderthal.  However I think Ad hominem attacks on myself and others is very unproductive for our common cause.  Remember we are advocating for the same cause, all of us!   Would it not be easier to use your editorial diatribes to promote legalization of cannabis and not demonizing others?
> 
> During my discussion on another forum I was asked what had changed here in Michigan since MM was passed in 2008 with almost a 2/3 margin.  I cut and pasted that response below.  It is my opinion of what is going on here and is NOT a statement of fact.
> 
> ...



THANK YOU mswit for posting the article. 
 unfortunately, due to some simply NOT able to remain "on topic" and "discuss the issues", the adolescent behavior of attacking each other with insults and personal innuendos, I'm forced to close yet another thread. 
  Please do not take it as anything that "YOU" have done, or any fault in "your" posting. 
We (the majority) value your input and appreciate your post.
THANK YOU....


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