# Anyone ever grow on a 12/6 schedule?



## Hackerman (Nov 15, 2014)

I have been reading some info on people who tried running 12/6 light schedules during flowering.

This doesn't seem all that strange in that the plants need 12 hours of dark to produce the hormone that makes them flower. But, once this hormone is distributed throughout the plant, how long does it take the plant to process it? If it is only 6 hours, I guess this could make sense.

The big question I had on this topic (and no one seems to know the answer) is, "Do the plants perceive each 18 hour cycle as a "day"?

If so, this would the plants mature in 60 "18 hour days" or 60 x 24 hours?

Jorge says that growers are claiming as big or bigger yields with the 12/6 but I still can't get an answer as to the maturing time.

If the plants would produce even the same amount as a 24 hour cycle (12/12) and mature in 60, 18 hour days, this would shorten maturity time by as much as 25%

Just curious if anyone has actually done this and if they can tell me if the plants perceive 18 hours as a "day".


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## orangesunshine (Nov 15, 2014)

i have read much about this lighting schedule---plants do not recognize an 18 hour day---they are a 24 hour photoperiod plant---anything less confuses the plant and will likely delay and stunt flowering---"circadian rhythms rule"

where did u find info---i would like to check it out

check out "marijuana forced flowering" by tom flowers


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## Hackerman (Nov 15, 2014)

I have to wonder if the plants would adapt to an 18 hour circadian rhythm after several (or many) generations.

What originally got me thinking was something Jorge posted a while back on his forum and someone brought it back up recently. 

_I talked with Dutch and Canadian gardeners who claim their plants flower under a 6-hour dark and 12 hour light photoperiod. This expedited, 18- hour photoperiod regimen is supposed to work, but I'm not sold on it. Gardeners say that their harvest is undiminished, and that they are getting 25 percent more cannabis in the same time. I have not visited their garden rooms to verify these claims. No electricity is saved by adopting this regimen. _

http://www.marijuanagrowing.com/showthread.php?1272-Photoperiod-for-flowering

Sure would be nice to have a strain that matures in 40 days or less. LOL


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## Locked (Nov 15, 2014)

Didn't Clarke cover this in his book Marijuana Botany? Pretty sure he did and they might need the 12 hour dark period to induce the flowering hormones but they also need the 12 hours of light to properly create the "goodies".  Any less than 12 hours of light and you start cutting into the max levels. 

http://ytdj.org/PDF Library/Cannabis/Marijuana Botany.pdf


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## orangesunshine (Nov 15, 2014)

i don't buy into it either---does make for an interesting discussion tho---in addition to the orange/red light spectrum---key ingredients i guess would be strain specific---like something that originated farthest the equator and if somebody could actually verify the optimal amount of time tha strain would take to fully metabolize (lack of a better word) the dark period

another guess is the 12/12 is just an average and different strains will perform better under a different regime


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## Hackerman (Nov 15, 2014)

orangesunshine said:


> another guess is the 12/12 is just an average and different strains will perform better under a different regime



You're right in that it is just a guess but what if......

If one had the time and resources, they might start breeding those strains and picking phenos that mature earlier and earlier.

30 days veg/ 30 days flower with no loss in yield. 

Albeit, I just vaped about 5 bags from my Extreme so I am thinking anything is possible. LOL

And, just for the record, I am also, generally speaking, against this kind of thing. I like to keep it as close to Mother Nature as I possible can.


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## Hackerman (Nov 15, 2014)

Hamster Lewis said:


> Didn't Clarke cover this in his book Marijuana Botany? Pretty sure he did and they might need the 12 hour dark period to induce the flowering hormones but they also need the 12 hours of light to properly create the "goodies".  Any less than 12 hours of light and you start cutting into the max levels.
> 
> http://ytdj.org/PDF Library/Cannabis/Marijuana Botany.pdf



The only thing I found in MB is 

_"Drug
Cannabis production requires 11-12 hours of continuous darkness to induce flowering and at
least 10 hours of light for adequate THC production (Valle et al. 1978)."_


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## Hackerman (Nov 15, 2014)

EDIT: Nevermind. My copy didn't have a bibliography.

EDIT AGAIN:

Anyone have a copy of this study?

valle, j.r., pharmacological activity of cannabis according to the sex of the plant


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## Locked (Nov 15, 2014)

View attachment thc production.jpg


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## Hackerman (Nov 15, 2014)

Hamster Lewis said:


> Research has shown (Valle et al. 1978) that twice as much THC is produced
> under a 12-hour photoperiod than under a 10-hour photoperiod



Yeah, I saw that but it doesn't apply here. The theory does not change the 12 hour dark period. Only the light period.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 16, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> I have to wonder if the plants would adapt to an 18 hour circadian rhythm after several (or many) generations.
> 
> What originally got me thinking was something Jorge posted a while back on his forum and someone brought it back up recently.
> 
> ...


 
Yes, it would.  This is kind of what the developers of auto flowering strains were aiming at.  Jorge says only that he has heard of it, never seen the grows and he is not convinced.  I have seen nothing anywhere or read anything that makes me believe that this works.  I have seen journals where people start, but like other things that do not work out, they somehow just disappear....

 I mean really, if this worked wouldn't larger commercial growers be doing it?  It would really be the breakthrough of the century!


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## DogBoy420 (Nov 17, 2014)

I think (according to all the reading I've done) that exhaustive studies have been performed on all light cycles pertaining to MJ growing.  No stone has been left unturned.  And the overwhelming evidence shows:

1. 24/0 is better than any other light cycle for veg.

2. 12/12 is better than any other light cycle for flowering.


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## Hackerman (Nov 17, 2014)

Then, you wouldn't mind posting a link to all those "exhaustive studies"? LOL

In the reading I have done, there has been virtually no studies done on this. LOL I did find a few posts where people are experimenting but..... an exhausting study? Not.

I feel so sorry for close-minded people. 

One way.........


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## DogBoy420 (Nov 17, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> Then, you wouldn't mind posting a link to all those "exhaustive studies"? LOL
> 
> In the reading I have done, there has been virtually no studies done on this. LOL I did find a few posts where people are experimenting but..... an exhausting study? Not.
> 
> ...



It's in here:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Growers-Handbook-Complete-Cultivation/dp/0932551467/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1416262998&sr=8-1&keywords=marijuana+books[/ame]


and here:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Marijuana-Horticulture-Outdoor-Medical-Growers/dp/187882323X/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1416263097&sr=8-2&keywords=marijuana+books[/ame]


and here:

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Cannabis-Grow-Bible-Definitive-Recreational/dp/1931160589/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1416263130&sr=8-3&keywords=marijuana+books[/ame]


I've read them all, cover to cover.


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## Locked (Nov 17, 2014)

Some people will always waste time trying to reinvent the wheel.  If it worked then there would be plenty of growers doing it.


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## Hackerman (Nov 17, 2014)

DogBoy420 said:


> Personally, I'll never make the mistake of wasting my time on you again.  Starting now.



Thanks bud, I appreciate it. Maybe you could even delete that disgusting display of ignorance you posted above for me. 

And, just FYI, there's nothing in any of those books about a 12/6 schedule but thanks for wasting your time, anyway.

And, remember, no more posting in my  threads, you promised. 

Love you, man.  

Peace..


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## Hackerman (Nov 17, 2014)

Hamster Lewis said:


> Some people will always waste time trying to reinvent the wheel.



Like adding bearings to it to make it better.

Otherwise you would still be pushing around a round stone.

I can't believe you people. Any new ideas frighten you to death and make you angry. LMAO

So sad. I certainly didn't expect it from you, Hamster.


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## DogBoy420 (Nov 17, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> Thanks bud, I appreciate it. Maybe you could even delete that disgusting display of ignorance you posted above for me.
> 
> And, just FYI, there's nothing in any of those books about a 12/6 schedule but thanks for wasting your time, anyway.
> 
> ...



Alright Hack, I had to come back to apologize to you for being a jerk.  I still believe that my original response was correct (that 24/0 and 12/12 have been proven to be ideal), but I was a jerk in my second post.  I apologize.  

Good growing to you.


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## Hackerman (Nov 17, 2014)

I hate when people are nice to me. Go back to the way you were. LMAO

Not a second thought, bud. If I apologized every time I said or did something wrong, I wouldn't have time for anything else. LOL

Peace

Is that your lab in the avatar?


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## DogBoy420 (Nov 17, 2014)

Peace.  For always.

That's actually not my lab, but my lab looks just like the one in my avatar.


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## justafarmer (Nov 17, 2014)

DogBoy420 said:


> I think (according to all the reading I've done) that exhaustive studies have been performed on all light cycles pertaining to MJ growing.  No stone has been left unturned.  And the overwhelming evidence shows:
> 
> 1. 24/0 is better than any other light cycle for veg.
> 
> ...




uh say what???

#1 = INCORRECT!

Plants need sleep to bro......would you keep a chicken awake 24 hours a day, in an attempt to get more eggs? Now that'd just be cruel man.....

18/6 for the win amigo!


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## justafarmer (Nov 17, 2014)

DogBoy420 said:


> It's in here:
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/dp/0932551467/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20
> 
> ...



dang you sound a little sarcasatic and rude eh?



have a bowl and take it easy man!


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## DogBoy420 (Nov 17, 2014)

justafarmer said:


> dang you sound a little sarcasatic and rude eh?
> 
> have a bowl and take it easy man!



Yes man, I was very sarcastic and rude...but I apologized to Hack...we're cool now...


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## DogBoy420 (Nov 17, 2014)

justafarmer said:


> uh say what???
> 
> #1 = INCORRECT!
> 
> ...



Honestly man, I think the scientific community has proven that MJ benefits from 24/0 over 18/6 in veg.  I believe in science, so I believe what the scientists say.


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## justafarmer (Nov 17, 2014)

DogBoy420 said:


> Honestly man, I think the scientific community has proven that MJ benefits from 24/0 over 18/6 in veg.  I believe in science, so I believe what the scientists say.




what scientists?


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## Locked (Nov 17, 2014)

justafarmer said:


> uh say what???
> 
> #1 = INCORRECT!
> 
> ...



Actually Cannabis does not need a dark period and that has been backed by science.  Not all plants need a dark period in Veg.


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## justafarmer (Nov 17, 2014)

DogBoy420 said:


> Honestly man, I think the scientific community has proven that MJ benefits from 24/0 over 18/6 in veg.  I believe in science, so I believe what the scientists say.




"scientific community",.......how vague.

I know the scientific community, and have included a pic of me and my friends to prove it!
Here, have a pull on this -------> :48: 

View attachment Weird-Science-robert-downey-jr-34568357-1287-701.jpg


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## Hackerman (Nov 17, 2014)

LOL, why do my threads always turn into flame fests? LMAO

Actually, I do believe quite a few people "in the know" have experimented with light cycles and about every experiment I read was in favor of a 24/0 light schedule during veg over any other cycle. That much we, pretty much, have in the bag.

The dark cycle is where all the testing is going on now. Blue lights.... staggered cycles.... a few others.

I am the kind of person that doesn't necessarily need to get bigger buds or more THC from running a blue light at night. The results of the test are not the most important thing. The knowledge one gains throughout the testing process is the true reward. If we happen to get better pot, that's just a by-product. The true quest is the quest for knowledge, not answers.

It was best said when Commander Riker was talking to my good friend, Data. And, Data was explaining that his quest was to become human. When Riker asked him if it bothered him that he knew he would never actually reach his goal, Data's reply was, "_...the task itself, yields it's own rewards"_.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 18, 2014)

Justafarmer--LOL--you are not going to win on this one.  Cannabis is in a class of plant that does not need or benefit from a dark period.  It will grow all the time the light is on and other needs are met.  When you shut the lights off for 6 hours, the plant will stretch more, giving you longer internodal spacing and therefore, less bud sites and less bud.  Bottom line is that running 24/7 gives you a shorter bushier plant in less time.  The only time I every shut my vegging lights off at all is if the heat gets too great when it gets hot in the summer.  Cannabis is not a chicken and vise versa.  Mammals need sleep, cannabis doesn't.  There IS research on this and by _real_ scientist and _real_ scientific studies.  If you do the research, you will find out that this is true.  The 18/6 is really not beneficial in any way over the 24/7 unless you are trying to combat heat and need a "cooling-off" period.


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## Hackerman (Nov 18, 2014)

From the studies I have read and the experiments I have seen, the only advantage to an 18/6 is that is provides for a better root and stem growth.

While this would NOT be beneficial during vegging (unless you love smoking stems. LOL) it has shown to possibly be a better cycle during cloning (and, possibly seedlings although everything I read was pertaining to cloning).

This is an easy test to run so I will definitely try this next time I clone.

Still, I have seen very little on the short day (or blue light) thing. Time will tell. If it IS beneficial, there are people who will test and test until they find out. I was thinking about buying a tiny tent just big enough for 1 small plant, just for experiments.

I know one person who just put this to the test so we may have more information in the coming months.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 19, 2014)

I read about people using this light schedule years ago.......and then nothing.  That alone tells me huge amounts.  The idea has been out there for many many years--probably a decade or more.  And you can be absolutely sure that it has been tried by many people and obviously to no avail.


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## Hackerman (Nov 19, 2014)

Have you tried it?


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## Dman1234 (Nov 19, 2014)

You dont have to try everything to know its a bad idea, for example I have never tried Crystal Meth but i still know its a bad idea.


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## AluminumMonster (Nov 19, 2014)

If you spot me the 4 grand to cover my possible loss i'll try it for ya:bong:


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## Hackerman (Nov 19, 2014)

Never mind guys. Sorry I mentioned something new. I know how that frightens you all. LMAO

If you don't have something intelligent to post, it's probably better if you just don't post. 

Otherwise, just keep doing everything the same way. Personally, I like new ideas. If you don't, that's fine. But, don't think your ignorance and close minded lifestyle should stop others from being open minded and learning new things.

Please, as a favor to me. Keep it positive or just don't post.

Thanks

Peace


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## AluminumMonster (Nov 19, 2014)

I do this for a living bud. The possible benefits don't outweigh the risks. Not even close. 

Now if you want to give it a go, i'll follow along


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## Dman1234 (Nov 19, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> Never mind guys. Sorry I mentioned something new. I know how that frightens you all. LMAO
> 
> If you don't have something intelligent to post, it's probably better if you just don't post.
> 
> ...



Lol, its not new, 12-12 is the best schedule for flowering,  sometimes you just have to accept facts, its not about not trying something new its about not trying something the will affect yeild in a negative way, I dont see any negative comments so im not sure where that came from.


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## Locked (Nov 19, 2014)

Nothing NEW being talked about here.  People have been trying to find a better or quicker light schedule for years and years.  I didn't see any negative comments either.


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## justafarmer (Nov 19, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> Never mind guys. Sorry I mentioned something new. I know how that frightens you all. LMAO
> 
> If you don't have something intelligent to post, it's probably better if you just don't post.
> 
> ...







yep, you sounded pretty "positive" right there,.......NOT


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## Hackerman (Nov 19, 2014)

See what I mean. It's very difficult to carry on an intelligent topic with stuff like...

_If you spot me the 4 grand to cover my possible loss i'll try it for ya

yep, you sounded pretty "positive" right there,.......NOT 

I do this for a living bud. The possible benefits don't outweigh the risks. Not even close. 

And you can be absolutely sure that it has been tried by many people and obviously to no avail. 

I know the scientific community, and have included a pic of me and my friends to prove it!

Some people will always waste time trying to reinvent the wheel. _

None of these comments provided any real useful contribution to the topic.

The thread started out OK but then the "one way" stuff started.


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## AluminumMonster (Nov 19, 2014)

I have read some of your comments hackerman, and they aren't always appropriate for the thread. Stop being so sensitive and hit this.:48:


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## Dman1234 (Nov 19, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> See what I mean. It's very difficult to carry on an intelligent topic with stuff like...
> 
> _If you spot me the 4 grand to cover my possible loss i'll try it for ya
> 
> ...



I just assumed you were trolling for an argument again, it gets old, sorry if i miss read.


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## orangesunshine (Nov 19, 2014)

wheels off the bus again...lmfao...play nicely children or someone's going to get a timeout


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## Rosebud (Nov 19, 2014)

OK Kids, Hackerman if you wonder why your threads fall apart, what would be the common denominator?

I personally grew that way until I came to MP and found out I was wrong to do that. I come from a master gardeners background and felt that pot needed a dark period to do whatever roses or other plant do. I learned better. I switched and would never look back. 

No one is frightened of doing new things, thus me using led's, etc.  These folks know what they are talking about. Deal with it.

And if i may continue to be snarky, the reason I didn't post in this thread until now, is I saw the heading and was bored by it. It has been dealt with ad nauseum.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Nov 20, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> Never mind guys. *Sorry I mentioned something new. I know how that frightens you all.* LMAO
> 
> If you don't have something intelligent to post, it's probably better if you just don't post.
> 
> ...


 
*Hackerman, what we are trying to tell you is that this is not a new idea.*  It has been kicked around for years.  People have tried it and abandoned the idea as not working.  I have seen at least a dozen people start on this schedule and then when it isn't working you never hear from then again.  I have looked at thousands of grows over the years.  I have read about tons of different kind of growing methods over the years and I have tried many of them myself.  Some things work and some things don't.  There are some things that are worth experimenting with and there are some that aren't.

 Just because we are rejecting an old idea that has not been proven to work and is against all botanical information we have about cannabis does not make one ignorant and closed-minded.  This really is an OLD idea that did not work.

Sit back, take a deep breathe, and take a hit on something great.  You are really getting too up-tight over this.


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## Hackerman (Nov 20, 2014)

Yeah, yeah, I know. LOL

You guys just don't understand the horrible childhood that made me this way. LOL In short, I was a "gifted" child (what a frigging nightmare) out of high school and into college when I was barely a teen. Being thrust into an adult (yes, college was "adult" to me at the time. LOL) world and what was worse.... an adult world where everyone around me maintained a 200+ I.Q. Everything I did was scrutinized. Every word I spoke had to have footnotes and bibliographies. If I farted, I had to provide a full bibli on what I ate and why the fart smelled like it did. And bibli's had to be based upon fact or established theory.

After almost 10 years of that, I just can't help myself. LOL

So, if you will all be so kind as to tolerate my demands for proof and substantiating data on every word you say and every post you make, I will, in return, share with you my method for growing a cannabis plant from seed to harvest in 30 days with no loss in yield over today's methods (when I discover it. LOL).

Sorry gang.

THG... you keep saying you have read dozens of threads on this topic. I can not find a single one (well, I found 1). Can you please post some links to the threads your talking about? Thanks


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## surfinc (Nov 20, 2014)

Maybe you could set up a small room or tent
Run one at 12-dark 8 light 12 dark 8 light 12 etc....a small adjustment to start...thus getting a full day in 20 hours not 24... "theoretically" making 7 days 140 hours not 168..
So 4 hours gained per day x 56 days = 224 hours..thus cutting off maybe 9-1/2 calendar days per run.....x 6 runs a year... Potentially 60 in a year...maybe getting a whole other run in there from the saved calendar days ...
So ...Digital timers can be set like that....
I'm kinda stoned....what are we talking about again??

Give it a whirl bro....I'll pull up a chair ...


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## Hackerman (Nov 20, 2014)

Yeah, I was thinking of getting a small tent just for experiments. However, something like this would have to be done on a big scale to get any meaningful results. 

Next crop, I'll separate a plant or 2 and run them 12/1 just to see how they compare to the others in 12/12 in terms on maturity time and overall health but the results could never be considered conclusive. That's for sure.

Still, there may be plenty to learn along the way. And, that's what's important to me. Might be fun.


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## surfinc (Nov 20, 2014)

Committing like that was for the Henry fords of the world...

What would you say is a minimum growth period?
What is a minimum dark period?
If you knew those answers then you could dial it perfect....
Until then I stick with the Indians....or maybe analog timers ...or...
What are we talking about?? 
:48:


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## pcduck (Nov 22, 2014)

Hackerman said:


> Yeah, yeah, I know. LOL
> 
> You guys just don't understand the horrible childhood that made me this way. LOL In short, I was a "gifted" child (what a frigging nightmare) out of high school and into college when I was barely a teen. Being thrust into an adult (yes, college was "adult" to me at the time. LOL) world and what was worse.... an adult world where everyone around me maintained a 200+ I.Q. Everything I did was scrutinized. Every word I spoke had to have footnotes and bibliographies. If I farted, I had to provide a full bibli on what I ate and why the fart smelled like it did. And bibli's had to be based upon fact or established theory.
> 
> ...



:rofl::rofl: 

200+ IQ
30 years of growing
Still asking noobie questions
:rofl: :rofl:


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## Hackerman (Nov 22, 2014)

One thing I learned in all those years was that, no matter how much you know, you don't know it all.

I can't believe I have grown for so long and have done it wrong for so many years. Still, if it's like everything else, I'll be leaving noob status pretty fast and into new things. Thanks to the peeps here and a few other places.

It's becoming a fun hobby for me again with a lot a new things to learn.

Hey PC.... do the letters F O mean anything to you? LMAO


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## pcduck (Nov 22, 2014)

Yes Hackerman it does.
To me it means that you lack the intelligence to use more appropriate words. But that is just me.LOL.


:rofl:


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