# Why does the PH change so dramatic ?



## 000StankDank000 (Feb 5, 2015)

Ok so I bubble my water for sometimes up to 4 days to get the chlorine out. I just bubble tile I need to use it. I will adjust the PH down to 6 then the next day check it and it be 8 so I drop it back down to 6 make sure 100% next day back at 8 . Just tap water in a 5 Gal bucket with an air stone? 

I thought I was just stoned so I tryed it on the next batch of water and did the same thing. It's checked with digital meter and backed up with drops 8 is blue 6 is yellow so big difference.

I read duck talk about calcium in water before but don't get it


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## bwanabud (Feb 5, 2015)

Yep, sounds like Calcium or additional elements in the water causing stability problems...been there, done that


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## Locked (Feb 5, 2015)

What are you using for ph up and down?


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## samarta (Feb 6, 2015)

If I understand you to say you are just bubbling your water, know that water alone (especially tap) with bubbles will increase in ph because of the oxygen.  Try your experiment with your nutes and if the recommended dose will not hold within better ranges, you're going to need to use store bought water.  I use distilled


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## Dman1234 (Feb 6, 2015)

You are using ph strips to test?  not reliable at all,  I never bubble my water, I fill a water jug, add nutes, let it sit for 30 mins, correct the ph and water the plants, you need to look into getting a digital ph meter.


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## samarta (Feb 6, 2015)

Dman is right on - I learned that one the hard way- almost-Saved only because the digital arrived in time for me to see just how wrong my strips were.  Not off a little - Completely Wrong!


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 6, 2015)

Blind leading the blind. Where in my post does it say test strips guys?

Checked with drops backed up with digital PH pen
I'm using PH up from hydro store


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## Dman1234 (Feb 6, 2015)

Whats with the blue and yellow comment, drops or strips, they are all useless.

Blind leading blind? Really buddy, LOL your funny, you should drop the attitude, people are just trying to assist you, the attitude just turns them off, you clearly need the help so maybe a little more understanding would be a good idea.


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 6, 2015)

Was a joke bro . I didn't think you of all people would have gotten upset. It came of wrong as the internet doesn't show . 

The digital meter was backed up with drips 8 PH is Blue 6 PH is yellow. 

I wanted to know why is it PH to 6 and goes back up to 8 in 24HR nothing but air stone.


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## bwanabud (Feb 6, 2015)

000StankDank000 said:


> Was a joke bro . I didn't think you of all people would have gotten upset. It came of wrong as the internet doesn't show .



Sarcasm doesn't play well in print, a smiley face helps people know you were kidding  Dman is just trying to help.

I assume you have city water, since you mentioned chlorine...take a Calcium test of the water, see how high it is...you can get a cheap test kit at a Fish/aquarium store.


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 6, 2015)

So is it just high calcium that does this? Will It ever level out?
I need to figure this out as I wanna start " playing" with DWC .  I'm scared the DWC bucket is gonna need to be adjusted daily . 

   That's all I get on my iPad


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## bwanabud (Feb 6, 2015)

A few things could do it, but Calcium is on the list...and cheap to find out if that's what's wrong. If you have a TDS meter, that reading would give us a feel for your water quality also.

One way or the other, you have to get the answer...not guess. So facts are better than wasting time on a bad grow, it's probably something in the water...and hydro would be out of the question unless you invest in a RO system.


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 6, 2015)

So your saying cause of the crazy swings a hydro grow would be out of the question. I wouldn't be able to keep the PH from day to day. I would have to use RO or Distilled water and add nutes . 

Will have to find this cheap calcium test kit. Or get it tested.


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## Dman1234 (Feb 6, 2015)

000StankDank000 said:


> Was a joke bro . I didn't think you of all people would have gotten upset. It came of wrong as the internet doesn't show .
> 
> The digital meter was backed up with drips 8 PH is Blue 6 PH is yellow.
> 
> I wanted to know why is it PH to 6 and goes back up to 8 in 24HR nothing but air stone.



Who uses drops and a colour chart to back up a dig meter, I live in Toronto so i was following you to help you out but i have lost interest as you come across as a know it all that posts questions that show you are cluless, good luck, im out.


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## bwanabud (Feb 6, 2015)

Dman1234 said:


> Who uses drops and a colour chart to back up a dig meter, I live in Toronto so i was following you to help you out but i have lost interest as you come across as a know it all that posts questions that show you are cluless, good luck, im out.



Sorry to see you go Dman, you're a very helpful member with tons of knowledge....have a good weekend.



000StankDank000 said:


> So your saying cause of the crazy swings a hydro grow would be out of the question. I wouldn't be able to keep the PH from day to day. I would have to use RO or Distilled water and add nutes .
> 
> Will have to find this cheap calcium test kit. Or get it tested.



I'm saying if you're having water stability issues, I would get to the bottom of it before I'd ever start a hydro system. RO comes with it's problems too, you have to add all the the elements back into the water. And it wasted 3-4 gallons for each clean gallon produced.

*Stank you owe Dman an apology*, do the right thing and square up with the man :cool2: It's always best to make friends in a small community, MP is a bunch of cool friends willing to help people out...unless you screw one of their family :evil:


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## Dman1234 (Feb 6, 2015)

bwanabud said:


> *Stank you owe Dman an apology*, do the right thing and square up with the man :cool2: It's always best to make friends in a small community, MP is a bunch of cool friends willing to help people out...unless you screw one of their family :evil:




LOL, thanks, but its not like that, I dont think he screwed me, I got rubbed the wrong way by your comment StankDank and I prob over reacted, I will forget it if you will, sometimes we miss read something and we are all capable of over reacting.


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## Joe420Camel (Feb 6, 2015)

Either way, lets solve the Ph issue 

I have to adjust my Ph every day (in flower) and I have a small enough grow I use distilled jugs of water.

obviously a different situation than stank's bubbled tap water but I'm always "all ears" when it comes to ph drift threads

PS 
I bet its an age thing. (half the stuff he says rubs me wrong but I don't think he means it that way...) 
stank, early/mid 20's?
almost everyone else, 35-50?
:48:


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## bwanabud (Feb 6, 2015)

Joe420Camel said:


> Either way, lets solve the Ph issue
> 
> I have to adjust my Ph every day (in flower) and I have a small enough grow I use distilled jugs of water.
> 
> obviously a different situation than stank's bubbled tap water but I'm always "all ears" when it comes to ph drift threads:48:



I've dealt with PH drift for years, constant battle when bubbling nutes for a 24 hr period. When I was running well water high in calcium, it drifted up 2 full points...I run rain water now and it drifts 1 full count down, if I keep bubbling it it drifts more. The drift certainly tells you what it's doing in the soil/media later...run off tests become critical if not organic growing.


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## Joe420Camel (Feb 6, 2015)

non organic DWC 5gal tote

which is where stank is headed (DWC) I believe.

hard to imagine fighting the water along with the roots/nutes


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 7, 2015)

Dman I didn't mean to offend you. I'm glad you can let stuff roll off you. And didn't run with it . My mistake.

I made this post to go along with my DWC I just wanted to know why now I know it has to be tested or use RO etc
Thanks 

View attachment ImageUploadedByTapatalk1423311935.097085.jpg


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 7, 2015)

When you are running hydro, one of the first things you need to do is get your water tested.  If it is bad, then yes, you will need RO or distilled water.


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## pcduck (Feb 7, 2015)

City water supplies have buffers added to them. These buffers raise the pH and maintains this pH in order so that the water lines do not create an electrical charge, ruining the water lines.

Most nutes also have buffers in them in order to maintain the proper pH for the plants.

Mix the 2 together and both buffers are reacting to each other. Either add more nutes taking the chance you may burn up your plants or add a pH adjuster.

R/O water has no buffers. In theory then the nutes should place the pH level at the proper numbers for plants, when mixed. When I use GH3 and my R/O water, the mixture drops to 5.6 and very slowly drifts up as the nutes are consumed by the plants.
Most city water supplies around me use calcium as their buffer.


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 7, 2015)

What is " bad water" over 400 PPM from tap.
.?.???


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## pcduck (Feb 7, 2015)

To high for me.
My city water averages around 108 and I still went with R/O just for the ease of pH'ing.
I did have many successful grows using straight city water.

This all depends on the individual grower and what is acceptable to them


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 7, 2015)

Trying to get water tested got a NO at my shop I spend $1000 when I got started . New shop time that will help.


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 7, 2015)

My PPM is 190 from my Tap


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## bwanabud (Feb 7, 2015)

000StankDank000 said:


> My PPM is 190 from my Tap



I'm not a hydro guy, but thought the rule of thumb was 200ppm go with a RO system.


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## Kraven (Feb 7, 2015)

000StankDank000 said:


> So is it just high calcium that does this? Will It ever level out?
> I need to figure this out as I wanna start " playing" with DWC .  I'm scared the DWC bucket is gonna need to be adjusted daily .
> 
> That's all I get on my iPad



Stank, I'm running a five gallon DWC using 3 gallons of solution. I will see my pH drift from 5.7~6.2. As the plants are taking up nutes it takes them as it needs them, that changes the ion concentration of the water "that is a healthy drift" My plant gets all the nutes she needs as she moves up and down the pH scale. I would get concerned if your going from 5.8 to 6.8 over a 24 hour period, then there are buffers in your water that are acting wacky ....Calcium and some other trace nutes. If you find this to be the case switch to store bought r/o or distilled, then you know exactly whats going on and why. Hope that helps some.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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## emrldthumb (Feb 8, 2015)

I'm having a similar pH drift issue, my tap is only about 110ppm. My municipal water utility has a tap analysis report on their website that lists the annual high, low, and average numbers for various elements. Have you checked if yours does the same? A one time test only really helps if it's a subterranean water source, if it's surface water then it'll fluctuate a lot throughout the year. For example the tap analysis report says my calcium ppm ranges from low teens to mid-50s throughout the year, averaging somewhere in the mid 20s.


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## Hushpuppy (Feb 9, 2015)

Getting a water analyses is a good thing to do so that you have a base-line of chemicals and pH, but you can work with many different levels of chemistry and be successful if you know what is in it. But don't forget that even distilled water will change pH value as it is aerated due to the dissolution of different elements like nitrogen (which is abundant in our atmosphere), oxygen, CO2, etc. over time. Also, you will(should) have pH drifting in a hydro system for the simple reason stated above, that the pH will change as the plants draw elements out of the solution.

But as I understood the original statement of curiosity. In plain water(unchlorinated, <200ppm) which I thought Stank was using ffor pH test, that has little or nor dissolved elements other than atmospheric gases at normal pressure, When aeration is applied, more atmospheric gasses are forced into the water where more of these elements is dissolved. This constant raising of elements in the what is changing the pH. However, these ph changes, in plain water, are rather small and easily overtaken by normal nutrient dosing.


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## next (Feb 11, 2015)

I have noticed that "plain" water, whether it is RO or Tap its PH is very easily affected because there isn't much in it to begin with. You see this more so with RO water because there is nothing in it.. 

Think of it like muddy water... RO water is like PURE water, so it doesn't take very much dirt and it gets muddy.. 

Tap water has a little bit of mud.. so it takes more to effect it, but not much.

When you add nutes to the water, you make it really MUDDY (or ph'd) so then the effects of the atmosphere, ect don't have as much of an effect on it.

the muddier the water, the more mud it takes to change the color. With pure RO water you can't get a ph reading, it flies all over the place, but you add 1 spec of ph down and it drops like a rock.. the more you add to the water, the more you have to add to have an effect. Take plain water, add 1 drop ph down, it will drop it significantly, then take some water that has nutes mixed in, and that 1 drop of ph down wont do much, because there are already 40 drops of ph'd nutes in there.

Wow im baked!


Make sense? lol


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## techrons78 (Feb 17, 2015)

000StankDank000 said:


> So is it just high calcium that does this? Will It ever level out?
> I need to figure this out as I wanna start " playing" with DWC .  I'm scared the DWC bucket is gonna need to be adjusted daily .
> 
> That's all I get on my iPad



Personally bro you need to read wsy more before doing hydroponics everyone thinks its easy. .your plants are sbout to die or are having problems. .that being said stick to soil for s couple times..you will learn allot..


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## techrons78 (Feb 17, 2015)

next said:


> i have noticed that "plain" water, whether it is ro or tap its ph is very easily affected because there isn't much in it to begin with. You see this more so with ro water because there is nothing in it..
> 
> Think of it like muddy water... Ro water is like pure water, so it doesn't take very much dirt and it gets muddy..
> 
> ...


x2


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## 000StankDank000 (Feb 20, 2015)

techrons78 said:


> Personally bro you need to read wsy more before doing hydroponics everyone thinks its easy. .your plants are sbout to die or are having problems. .that being said stick to soil for s couple times..you will learn allot..




Or I could try 1 DWC bucket while I do my 2 soil grows to get the hang of it.


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## next (Feb 20, 2015)

Grow some lettuce in your DWC


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## Hushpuppy (Feb 21, 2015)

Hydro growing is not as difficult as many people fear. It is more involved in ways than soil growing, and it requires a dedicated attention to detail, but the rules of hydro are quite straight forward and easier to learn than organics (IMO). The great thing with hydro is that you know precisely what is in the system, you know what the plants are getting because you are feeding the plants directly. It is really a matter of getting familiar with the process and getting used to following a specific set off rules and parameters.


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## Kraven (Feb 21, 2015)

Hushpuppy said:


> Hydro growing is not as difficult as many people fear. It is more involved in ways than soil growing, and it requires a dedicated attention to detail, but the rules of hydro are quite straight forward and easier to learn than organics (IMO). The great thing with hydro is that you know precisely what is in the system, you know what the plants are getting because you are feeding the plants directly. It is really a matter of getting familiar with the process and getting used to following a specific set off rules and parameters.



That has been my experience so far. I learned the rules and all I do is follow them and my grow has been phenomenal and this is my very first attempt at hydro after decades of soil grows.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com//www.pinterest.com/pin/create/extension/


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