# pH balance - organic means??



## Ravishing_68 (Dec 5, 2006)

I am sure I read somewhere what people were using instead of buying pH down and pH up bottles...they had their own "recipes" but I'll be darned if I can find it now...doing a search comes up with nothing.

I am using DWC with bubblers so I need something that hopefully would not clog the bubblers.


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## Shibumi (Dec 5, 2006)

Looks like we're both on the same planet today, Ravishing.  Same setup here and today for whatever ungodly reason my Ph shot up to 7.3.  I try for an average of 6.75.  Dont know why this happened as I never had issues like this before.  

Is there anything I can use to lower it a bit?  Would epsom salts work?


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## Ravishing_68 (Dec 5, 2006)

oh dear...I would never let my pH get higher than 5.8 !  I think it was hick that sent me this chart.  For hydro you keep it a little lower than dirt.  

I've still not found the post...I'm pretty sure it was potash and something else organic to change the pH.  For now I'm using bottled pH down. ~Rav eace:


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## Tonto (Dec 5, 2006)

To expound on this a little....
I have no idea what natural things can be used to raise and lower the PH. 
However, once you do get the right ph in your hydro system, how do you know how much nutes to use? I mean, I know that most nutrient companies have charts and stuff, but different strains act differently. Also, if you use 1 tbs per gallon, then 3 days later, how much is in there? I would assume that this is where a PPM Meter would come in handy, but even if you have one of those, what are you looking for??
Say my tap water has 250 ppm. What do I want the PPM to be after I add nutes? Should I do my best to check the water every day, and add nutes/water/ph up/ph down to "fix" the solution daily?
Don't mean to thread jack, maybe we can get all this info on one thread.


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## leelow (Dec 5, 2006)

apple cider vinigar a viableis  organic acid or ph down. does not last to long


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## KADE (Dec 5, 2006)

vinegar = ph down
baking soda = ph up

these dont last too long... but ph should be checked everyday anyways.. so it shouldn't matter.


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## Ravishing_68 (Dec 6, 2006)

aaah there you go...vinegar and baking soda... I am using products that came with caddy that just say pH down and pH up.  I'm almost finished with the bottle of pH down and was wondering if something else would be better to use as I have no idea what is in these bottles.  As it is, every two days I have to pH it down to 5.8 it tends to go up to 6.1 and I don't want it any higher.


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## Ravishing_68 (Dec 6, 2006)

As to respond to Fluid1... you are more than welcome to thread jack me anytime   I don't know what post I found this on but here it was I cut and paste to my cheat sheets.

ppm goes up, PH goes down=plants require less nutes.
ppm goes down, PH goes up=Plants require more nutes
ppm stable, PH goes up=Equilibrium=Good thang.


I found this also:
Most hydroponic solutions should be in the range of 150-600 parts per million in disolved solids. 300-400 ppm is optimum. It is possible to test your solution or soil with a electrical conductivity meter if your unsure of what your giving your plants. 
Keep in mind most disolved solids readings are usually on the low side, and actual nutrient levels are usually higher. It is possible with passive hydroponics, to get nutrient build-up over several feedings, to the point the medium is over saturated in nutrients. Just feed straight water now and again, until you notice the plants are not as green (slightly), then resume normal feeding. 

If this is true, I'm running ppm's too high, but it doesn't seem to adversely affect my plants. I had thought I'd heard that when they are in their 3+ week of veg you can go as high as 1000ppm and in flowering as high as 1200... but I've not been able to find where I got that information from.

Hope this helps. ~ Rav


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## leelow (Dec 6, 2006)

ravishing\
i am starting to hypothesize,that the contant ph down chase, is or can be detrimental to your nutes and plant, 
i feel that if your ph has stabilize from 5.6-6.3 i will leave it be, allowing the plants to enjoy the nutes without huge amount of acids, in your res.
I have left my plants at higher ph levels without any harm.
if you do regular top offs, with 1/2 or 1/4 strength it should also bring your ph down and put some buffer back in as well.
At certian stages of plant  life, it may be neccesarry to do more frequent res. changes.if  ph is fluxuating wildly.
leelow


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## KADE (Dec 6, 2006)

Ravishing_68 said:
			
		

> As to respond to Fluid1... you are more than welcome to thread jack me anytime  I don't know what post I found this on but here it was I cut and paste to my cheat sheets.
> 
> ppm goes up, PH goes down=plants require less nutes.
> ppm goes down, PH goes up=Plants require more nutes
> ...


 
PH will go up because of roots growing as well... 
PPMs do vary depending on products... but most fall in this type.


(this is all based on a standard tap water ec ~250-300)

Seedlings and Stem Cuttings - EC700
Week1 veg - EC1000
Week2 veg all through week 7 of flowering - EC2000
Week8 flower shouldn't be needed to be measured.. you are flushing nutes the last week.
Depending what your rockwool has for internal EC you can get it up to EC3000 with many strains  the last week of nutes for a last bit of bud growth. Normally anything above 2200 is a nono.

Things can go WAAAY more advanced then that... for instance.. ppm/ec readings should be taken from the rockwool using a wool syringe... and res adjusted accordingly... ph should also be tested from in the wool everyday too... no one does it... but it is supposed to be done that way.


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## Tonto (Dec 6, 2006)

How often should the ppm be measured and adjusted? What exactly is EC?


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## Tonto (Dec 6, 2006)

Ravishing, how high is your water lever in your DWC system?


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## Ravishing_68 (Dec 7, 2006)

I used to be like a new mother checking my "baby" plants every day.  This is my 2nd grow and it's going well so I'm trying to leave them be and check their water, pH and ppm every other day.  

I have my water level about 4 inches deep.  In the beginning the water was getting too warm so I would put in a reusable ice block to keep it cool. now they seem fine so I try to leave them alone.

I wasn't expecting 7/10 sprouts really I was expecting to have 4 at most.  I am trying to use LST to give each the max light they deserve to grow hardy and when they are sexed I will then pick the top 4 females.

Is EC= to PPM?  my tap water is 69ppm.  I am using Dyna-gro (but when these bottles are finished I'm going to go to B'cuzz due to the fact that they are 100% organic.

Here is information I found when reading about B'cuzz:
Since the outset of the company six years ago, Atami has developed into a leading research company in the area of biological technical engineering. The company supplies various growing media (soil and coco fibre products), liquid plant nutrients, and bio-stimulators. These products meet the highest quality standards and are produced according to ISO quality standards and the standards of the Dutch RHP Foundation (Quality Mark). Production conforms to the standard of Good Manufacturing Practice (GMP). 
The high level of concentration of the nutrient supplements makes their use very economical. Tailored to the specific wishes and needs of growers, Atami has put two nutrient product lines on the market: B'cuzz products and the ATA range. The B'cuzz products are especially developed for growers who look for maximum results from their plants in terms of yield and quality; a product line that is characterised by sheer fine-tuning. The ATA range consists of nutrient products that are relatively easy to handle and these combine well with other similar products that are available on the market.


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## Tonto (Dec 7, 2006)

What do you mean by 4 inches deep?

Where is the water level in relation to the pots, what size are the pots? 

I use organic Fox Farm nutes.


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## KADE (Dec 7, 2006)

Fluid1 said:
			
		

> How often should the ppm be measured and adjusted? What exactly is EC?


 
ec and ppm is basically the same thing.... if you have a ppm meter you have a ec meter that calculates ppm... ec is more accurate.

either way... if you dont have a tds/ppm/ec meter dont bother! dont need it unless ur goin REAL advanced in growing.


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## Tonto (Dec 8, 2006)

KADE said:
			
		

> ec and ppm is basically the same thing.... if you have a ppm meter you have a ec meter that calculates ppm... ec is more accurate.
> 
> either way... if you dont have a tds/ppm/ec meter dont bother! dont need it unless ur goin REAL advanced in growing.


 
I'm not looking for anything too advanced of course.... but a PPM meter seems quite necessary, as I'm not wanting to have to change the water and nutes any more than I have to. I'd much rather find a system like Ravishing, where I can just check the PH and PPM's every couple days and compensate with water/nutes/ph up or down.


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## Ravishing_68 (Dec 8, 2006)

Ok, what I have is a 10 gallon rubbermaid tub with 3" netpots.  I attached bubblers to the top and I have pump in the tub that pumps the water through the bubblers.  I try to time this to be 1 drop every 2-3 seconds, very slow, because my roots are now well established in the tub. Also in the tub is the 12" air stone strip and the roots really love it, I think next time I will get two strips to run in there.  so from the bottom up 4" is water and then I have about 5" air.. about 1- 1 1/2" below the pot is the top of the water.

Here I went and took pictures...they say they are worth a 1000 words  
Pic 1 - 10 gallon tub
Pic 2 - Bubblers
Pic 3 - Roots (note two plants are not keeping up with the others roots don't come to the water, but still are looking well up top)
Pic 4 - 12" air stone (brought out of water so you can see it)

Hope this helps... eace: ~Rav


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## Tonto (Dec 8, 2006)

Very nice!! I was thnking all along that you had a typical DWC system, and in fact you have a drip system!! I have a very similar setup as that, but I do not have the drip system going. Just pure DWC bubble system. I have a single air pump with two outlets, and each of those outlets has a splitter on it, and I'm running 4 air stones. Have you ever had any issues with algae with the drip system? Again, it looks great, thanks for posting pics, Ravishing! :joint: :clap:


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## KADE (Dec 8, 2006)

Fluid1 said:
			
		

> Very nice!! I was thnking all along that you had a typical DWC system, and in fact you have a drip system!! I have a very similar setup as that, but I do not have the drip system going. Just pure DWC bubble system. I have a single air pump with two outlets, and each of those outlets has a splitter on it, and I'm running 4 air stones. Have you ever had any issues with algae with the drip system? Again, it looks great, thanks for posting pics, Ravishing! :joint: :clap:


 
I thought the same thing! We were tricked!!


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## Ravishing_68 (Dec 8, 2006)

Fluid1 said:
			
		

> Very nice!! I was thnking all along that you had a typical DWC system, and in fact you have a drip system!! I have a very similar setup as that, but I do not have the drip system going. Just pure DWC bubble system. I have a single air pump with two outlets, and each of those outlets has a splitter on it, and I'm running 4 air stones. Have you ever had any issues with algae with the drip system? Again, it looks great, thanks for posting pics, Ravishing! :joint: :clap:


 
I never knew what I was doing, it came as a turn key system and someone once said it was a DWC so that is what I stuck with.  When I first started the seeds I did have algae on the top of my rockwool, you can see it in the pics but it has not been a problem.  Also when I bought my system it was used and I think they did a switcheroo on me and sent it with a clear tub which took me a while to figure out and then when I did, I ditched that and no more algae in the water.


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## KADE (Dec 8, 2006)

Ravishing_68 said:
			
		

> I never knew what I was doing, it came as a turn key system and someone once said it was a DWC so that is what I stuck with. When I first started the seeds I did have algae on the top of my rockwool, you can see it in the pics but it has not been a problem. Also when I bought my system it was used and I think they did a switcheroo on me and sent it with a clear tub which took me a while to figure out and then when I did, I ditched that and no more algae in the water.


 
It is still definately dwc... i didn't know u were using drips too tho.... the "bubbler" i thought was airstones.


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## Tonto (Dec 8, 2006)

Oh man, they gave you a clear tub? That's beat up!  
Your setup is very nice, is that a HPS light I see? Do you happen to know the strain of herb that you've got growing right now?


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## Ravishing_68 (Dec 9, 2006)

that is a 400 watt MH light for veg, have a 400 watt HPS for flowering.  I am growing Northern Light x Big Buds that I got from gypsy nirvana seed boutique.


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