# Fertilizer?



## Spookyashell (Jul 22, 2014)

Hello fine people.
 I'm a complete noob when it comes to growing and have a question about Nutrients. From my youtube guides it says I should use fertlizer with 20-15-15 during growth and 15-20-15 during flowering.

Problem is I can't find anything close to that. For growing I find 4-2-2 here and for flowering I find 2-2-4 , general purpose fertilizer here has 7-1-5.

 The guides I see use powder they mix into water, while what I find is already liqiud, is that why its so much lower? Coz it has already been watered out some?

 I have ordered a bottle of VitaLink earth bloom for the flowering stage. Is it usable? its only NPK 2-2-4. I also bought some 0-20-0 pellets at the farmers shop I mixed into new soil and transplanted the plants for blooming.

Reason I transplanted to new soil before blooming is the plants showed sign of nutrient burns, I've been using the 7-1-5 during growth and I saw it has 31 grams of salt per 100 ml, thats like 31% salt (Jeez). But it just need 1/4 of a bottlecap per liter water, so they haven't gotten 31 grams of salt tough.

I've pretty much done every mistake in the book so far, but I've learned so much for next time.

I also broke off some roots during transplant, Is there anything I can do to encourage root regen? Like water more? Spray water with nutrients directly on the leaves?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 22, 2014)

I don't know where you got the 20-15-15 and the 15-20-15, but I wouldn't be comfortable with nutrients with those N-P-K ratios, especially the one for flowering.  I recommend that you check out some nutrients formulated for cannabis and go with those.  My personal favorite is the General Hydroponics Flora series.  It is a 3 part nutrients that uses different quantities for different phases of flowering.  Just for comparison, the GH Flora Grow is 2-1-6, the Micro is 5-0-1, and the Bloom is 0-5-4.  The general formula for vegging is 3 parts grow, 2 parts micro, and 1 part bloom, for flowering it is the reverse--3 parts bloom, 2 parts micro, and 1 part grow.

I order all my nutrients online because I cannot get what I need locally.  While you can use the VitaLink, IMO, you are far better off with nutes formulated for cannabis.  Amazon has some good prices.  Try to stay away from any fertilizers with too many salts as they build up.


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## Spookyashell (Jul 22, 2014)

Thank you so much for taking time to help me out. I have those values from youtube guides. They use some blue powder 20-15-15 for growth and 15-20-15 for flowering, some use 10-30-15. I have seen several different guides, but all american. So I'm starting to think it might have something to do with them using PPM and us europeans using mg/L as mesurement. But I thought the values was percent.

So 31 grams of salt per 100 ml is alot, like I thought?

I see at the farmers shop that tomato fertlizer have pretty high numbers and from what I read they have simular needs as Cannabis. But that is pellets ment to be mixed into the soil, not liquid fertilizer.

So I'm pretty confused as to what fertilizer I should use. The high numbers I see in American youtube guides due to the difference the mesurement from US vs EU? Or is the difference that its powder to be mixed in water, not liquid to be mixed in water?

I don't want to order from abroad as everything worth over £20 inc postage have to be custom declared (Norway) and there is a substantial import fee to pay as well as 25% VAT on top of that. 

Another thing: I have 2x 250W CFL with a reflector each, one is 6400K and the other 2700K would you use both or only the 6400K during Vegie?
And would you use both or just the 2700K at flowering?

I have them in a closet thats roughly 1.5 meters x 60 cm (and about 2 meters high) I have the reflectors hanging in chains so I adjust them just about 8-10 cm over the tops. And a 20cm fan for circulation.
4 plants atm to make sure I get a female, going to kill off any males as soon as I can determine sex. Using both lights atm, just put them into flowering a few days ago.


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## Kindbud (Jul 22, 2014)

yes 32 grams is alot got to remember 1 ML = 1 gram i use liquid nutrients i stay away from powder nutrients just my opinion i have used FF and adv nutrients both of the great but after a few runs i switched back to Dyna Grow so much easyier and cheaper... Id use both of the lights 1 isnt the right specs for veg but it wont cause any harm and will help with ur lumes a sq ft


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## Spookyashell (Jul 22, 2014)

Kindbud said:


> yes 32 grams is alot got to remember 1 ML = 1 gram i use liquid nutrients i stay away from powder nutrients just my opinion i have used FF and adv nutrients both of the great but after a few runs i switched back to Dyna Grow so much easyier and cheaper... Id use both of the lights 1 isnt the right specs for veg but it wont cause any harm and will help with ur lumes a sq ft



Thank you, will the 6400K daylight bulb hurt flowering? Or is 12/12 light/dark all that really matters?


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## Hushpuppy (Jul 22, 2014)

I agree that you should use both lights ffor veg as the 2700K spectrum is still helpful to the plants and does increase the amount of lumens that are needed. I can tell you that you are already under lit for even vegging the plants. Proper lighting is (minimum)3000 lumens per square foot of growing space (during the veg stage) and (minimum) 5000 lumens per square foot (during flowering). Your space is roughly 3'x6' in feet which is 18square feet total. That would require a minimum of 54000 lumen output during veg and 90,000 lumens ffor flowering. The 250w CFL are good lights but not the best for the amount of energy used and heat generated. 

I would recommend that you get a 400w metal halide/HPS(or possibly even 2 of them) electronic lighting system to use as your main lighting and then use the CFLs as extra side lighting. The reason I say this is because MJ is a high energy plant that needs a very high amount of light energy to produce the complex chemical compounds that we all love. The more light (in the proper spectrum) that you can supply to the plants, the better that they will yield at harvest. 

The increase in lighting will also increase the amount of heat generated so you will definitely need to make sure you have very good ventilation for removing the heat, and replacing the CO2 depleted air with fresh air for them to breathe.

As far as nutrients are concerned, The Hemp Goddess is correct that you should stay away from anything that is not specifically formulated for MJ. There are many people who use regular fertilizers and the popular "all purpose" stuff but that is so rife with problems and many who use these fail to produce anything worth having. MJ is a very "need specific" plant that will flourish with the right conditions and produce beautifully, but will fail miserably when not given proper care.

You don't have to buy products from The States as there are several quality suppliers of good products for growing MJ there in both The Netherlands and in The UK. You will have to look them up online but they are there. There are 2 top products that are available to you locally for feeding. One is "Hesi" and the other is Advanced Nutrients. I suspect that you can also get General Hydroponics as well. I have not tried the "Hesi" products but I have read that many of the EU growers (and breeders) really like it. I have used the Advanced Nutrients products and like some of them a lot. I currently use Their Jungle Juice 3part which can be used in any growing medium(like natural soil, soilless medium, or hydroponics). I also use their "Mother Earth Super Tea" which is a 2 part "organic" liquid feed that can be used in soil or hydroponics.

As for following stuff you see on Youtube, I would be very careful off watching and believing what is shown there. Some people on there are quite legitimate but others throw out stuff that is not at all worth listening too. From the sounds of it, the people using the "blue powder" for fertilizer are using Miracle Grow All Purpose plant food. While there are those who use that with good results, they are usually very experienced growers who know all of the nuances of growing and feeding MJ. All too often, when people use "all purpose" ferts, they end up burning-up their plants.

You have come to a good place to get the proper help as many of the people here are good, experienced growers who are passionate about this hobby, and are willing to help a new grower learn the best methods, or at least tried and true methods


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## Spookyashell (Jul 23, 2014)

Hushpuppy said:


> I would recommend that you get a 400w metal halide/HPS(or possibly even 2 of them) electronic lighting system to use as your main lighting and then use the CFLs as extra side lighting. The reason I say this is because MJ is a high energy plant that needs a very high amount of light energy to produce the complex chemical compounds that we all love. The more light (in the proper spectrum) that you can supply to the plants, the better that they will yield at harvest.
> 
> The increase in lighting will also increase the amount of heat generated so you will definitely need to make sure you have very good ventilation for removing the heat, and replacing the CO2 depleted air with fresh air for them to breathe.
> 
> ...



 Thank you for good info.


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## Spookyashell (Jul 23, 2014)

Hushpuppy said:


> I agree that you should use both lights ffor veg as the 2700K spectrum is still helpful to the plants and does increase the amount of lumens that are needed. I can tell you that you are already under lit for even vegging the plants. Proper lighting is (minimum)3000 lumens per square foot of growing space (during the veg stage) and (minimum) 5000 lumens per square foot (during flowering). Your space is roughly 3'x6' in feet which is 18square feet total. That would require a minimum of 54000 lumen output during veg and 90,000 lumens ffor flowering. The 250w CFL are good lights but not the best for the amount of energy used and heat generated.



Thanks, but after an exeact messurement the closet is only 4 feet (125cm)by 1.5 feet (45 cm) so its only 6 square feet. The 2700K is 20.000 lumens and the 6400K is 15.000 Lumen.

I will get another bulb of each, so I get 30.000 Lumens of 6400K light during veg for 2 plants in 6 square feet, and 40.000 lm of 2700K during flowering. Shouldn't that work?


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## Spookyashell (Jul 23, 2014)

multifarious said:


> Looks like you can get GHE and Advanced nutrients in Norway
> 
> 
> http://www.hobbydyrker.no/butikk/plantenaring/ghe
> ...



 Thanks for the link, I'll probably order from there. Is it floraduo grow / bloom I should get?


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## Spookyashell (Jul 23, 2014)

multifarious said:


> Upgrading to a hps light setup, with adequate ventilation, will undoubtedly produce better budz than a cfl setup



I know, but then I need to buy new reflectors, ballast, bulbs + better ventilation. For now I'll stick to CFL, coz then I only have to buy 2 bulbs. I will never grow big anyway. I would be happy getting 20-25 grams on each batch of 2 plants, thats all I need.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 23, 2014)

I predominately use the GH 3 part Flora series also, but have also had very good luck vegging with the GH Flora Nova which is a 1 part nutrient.  

The thing to keep in mind using CFLs is how much more they cost to run every month over HIDs.  You will be running 500W in veg and only getting 30,000 lumens and 40,000 lumens in flowering.  A 400W HPS will get around 50,000-55,000 lumens--this is a 20% difference.  And no matter how you cut it, CFLs simply do not produce as much as HPS, even given the same amount of lumens.  And the CFLs will probably prove harder to cool.  Many people are under the misconceptions that HPS runs hotter than CFLs, but lumen for lumen, the CFLs will run hotter and it truly is easier to cool an HPS.  You need ventilation regardless of what type of lighting you use and your temps.  Plants need a continual supply of fresh air for proper photosynthesis.


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## Hushpuppy (Jul 23, 2014)

:yeahthat: totally agree with the above statements. If you are tight for money, stay with what you have for now as with the new dimensions you listed, you have enough lumens for vegging. Save your money and get the 400wHPS rather than buying extra CFLs. It will be far easier to cool it and the space. Look for a light like this: http://www.hpsgrowlightstore.com/gr...ube-reflector-with-large-add-on-wing-set.html
This setup in the glass tube allows you to connect a centrifugal fan to it via flexhose, and you can use the fan to suck the heated air out off your grow space and blow it out into another place in your house or outside of your house. Then as it pulls the heated and CO2 depleted air out, it will be sucking in fresh, cool air that has plenty off CO2 that the plants need.

I know it sounds like more and more but if you want really good quality (not just quantity) buds then it is well worth it. In very short amount of time you will find that you are actually saving money over buying bud and will be getting much better quality. Even with using the lights and exhaust fan and small oscillating fan in your grow, you still will not see a big difference in your electricity costs.


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## Spookyashell (Jul 23, 2014)

You guys are so nice and helpful. Glad I came here.


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## Spookyashell (Jul 23, 2014)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I predominately use the GH 3 part Flora series also, but have also had very good luck vegging with the GH Flora Nova which is a 1 part nutrient.
> 
> The thing to keep in mind using CFLs is how much more they cost to run every month over HIDs. You will be running 500W in veg and only getting 30,000 lumens and 40,000 lumens in flowering. A 400W HPS will get around 50,000-55,000 lumens--this is a 20% difference. And no matter how you cut it, CFLs simply do not produce as much as HPS, even given the same amount of lumens. And the CFLs will probably prove harder to cool. Many people are under the misconceptions that HPS runs hotter than CFLs, but lumen for lumen, the CFLs will run hotter and it truly is easier to cool an HPS. You need ventilation regardless of what type of lighting you use and your temps. Plants need a continual supply of fresh air for proper photosynthesis.



Yeah, At the moment we are building a new kitchen, so I have had to hide my plants in a basement closet, carpenter can't see them. My Brother (certified electrician) is comming to hook me up with power outlets in the attic, there I will have vent good enough for 400W HPS. He is on vacation for a month, but when he gets back I'll build a flower box up there. Then I'll probably get a 400W HPS, 54.000 Lumen. But its only 2100K, hope thats not a problem.

For vegie my prefered webshop has max 5500K, isn't that a bit low?
Probably just use the 30.000 lumen per 500W CFL for a while. Spent quite a bit on equipment just to get me started already. My domestic partner will probably freak if I go all out. I'm just happy she is ok with me growing some in the first place. Its illegal here after all.

 Thanks for all your great advice.

Have killed 2 out of 4 plants now (males) , Grrrr, but atleast one is a sure female, and the other is a suspected female.


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## MR1 (Jul 23, 2014)

Spooky, try to find the Son Agro 430watt hps bulb with matching 430 watt ballast. You can use it for veg and flower. I have used them for years, now in storage since switching to led.


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## Hushpuppy (Jul 24, 2014)

If you can't find the Son Agro430 the regular 400whps with the 2100K will be fine for flowering. Not the best for vegging though. Most of us use one set of lights in around the 6500K spectrum for vegging then move the plants to another space or move the lights to put in different lights with the 2100-3000K flowering spectrum.


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## Spookyashell (Jul 25, 2014)

Thinking of getting this for flower

http://www.designbelysning.no/vekst...400w-hps-paere-digital-ballast-reflektor.html

58.500 Lumens, if 2 plants arn't happy with that they can go F themselfs 

What reflector would you get from the options?

I have also ordered the 3 part nutrients ( grow, micro,flower ).
Now spent over £500 ($800) on equipment, soil, fertilizers, timers, fans, lights, reflectors +++ . But atleast I now have supplies to last me a long time. Got my rooting gel, incubator, dusting mist spray and Vitalink bloom nutrients today 

Oh, and if I get this 600W (90.000 lumen with 600W bulb) Can I later connect a 400W bulb to the ballast, or will the ballast push 6ooW at the 400W bulb since its digital?
http://www.designbelysning.no/600w-hps-paere-digital-ballast-reflektor.html


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## Hushpuppy (Jul 28, 2014)

I would recommend that you get the KR2 299 or the cool tube reflectors. You don't want to use an open reflector in a small grow space as you will have an extremely difficult time controlling the heat.

The 600w light that you show is not adjustable so you wouldn't be able to put anything but a 600w bulb in it. If you think you may be expanding later then the 600w would be good but if you will only be using the current space then the 400w will be sufficient.

I know it seems like you are steadily dumping money into this even before you have anything to show for it, but it is worth it when you get a year out from now and you are getting amazing buds. The good thing is that this initial setup cost will last you quite some time, and it will reward you nicely. It is well worth the investment


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