# What soil to use



## FUM (Mar 12, 2010)

>>> With all the info on FF and other soils I'm kind of in awe as what to use for my organic growing soil. I already have my bat guano, worm castings ,kelp meal, liquefied and home-made kelp, peat moss, organic cow dung with some other thing that are my thing. Now I'm wondering what to use for my "organic soil". If there are products out there that say that they are organic and they're not, I don't don't want to be fooled and have it come back on my patients that i grow for. So please, someone advise me to a true and tested "organic soil" for my 2010 grow. Thank you all and Organic green blessings. This grow is outside and greenhoues grow.


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## panic in paradise (Mar 12, 2010)

well i use;

cococoir 1
pearlite     .65
spagnum peat moss(60/40 pearlite and peat)
organic nutrient and sterility gauranteed compost  .3
look for mushroom compost, not made from them, but what was used to grow them after 2-3 years of composting.

worm casts 1 20th of your finished product, or mix with some peat moss and pearlite to use as top soil, or add while potting around the root ball.

ill throw in a cup of botanicare dry bloom fert into 10-12 gallons of soil. 2 6 5 + calcium

you have to keep the nitrogen levels at or above 1.5, or it will eat it self, actually, and be useless or destructive rather to the plant eventually. but you should statrt adding nutrients after a month max anyway.

using th cow manure may not be a good idea indoors, idk what you have there but, you can get sick, or invite pests and diseas/fungi in such an environment. i think i might know what brand you have, and i used it  once, but the crop failed from my own causes.

the mix aove will do it, or some variation. a lot of the time i will just use cococoir, pearlite, and some wormcasts... good stuff. alfalfa meal may be a better choice then the wormcasts for a full N P K plus longevity. the worm casts though will most likely be in the mushie compost, along with feather meal, blood and bone meal, low acidic soft black bark, and cotton seed.

i havent had any PH problems using S peat, at moderate amounts.

texture is important, grab a fist full of your mix, squeez it, pull your fingers away, it should start to crumple but retain shape, then collapse if poked slightly 
just keep trying, failing, winning! learning every day... the more you stay astute and study + practice, the better the results will be all around.


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## parkone (Mar 12, 2010)

My suggestion, Black Gold organic, seems to be a fine product and working well. Comes mixed ready to go!

Formally known as Black Gold® All Organic, this rich, loamy mix is a premium choice for all-purpose gardening applications. Our 100% organic base consists of screened earthworm castings, Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss, compost and forest humus. We blend in perlite and pumice to ensure optimum aeration. Listed by the Organic Materials Review Institute(OMRI)[/URL] for organic production


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## Budders Keeper (Mar 12, 2010)

I had great luck with coco+perlite+organics but couldn't give you the exact mix...I measure by handful's. I have had good luck with FFOF+perlite and organics but I've been reading a lot about people blaming FF for various bugs lately. Never had bugs in mine but I only go through about a bag a month for my mom's. Subcool has a fantastic thread on how he does organic soil as well.


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## FUM (Mar 12, 2010)

This is an outside grow and in a green house. I am looking for brand name "true organic soil(s)".


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## BBFan (Mar 13, 2010)

Hey FUM-

I'm strictly indoors nowadays.  I used FF Happy Frog on my last grow.  Worked pretty well, but potent on it's own without any amendments.

I'm trying a supersoil run on my current batch and I'm going to try "Roots Organics" in a 1/3 supersoil topped with 2/3 Roots Organics.  From what I can tell it's all organic and seems to have all the bases covered- I just hope it's not too hot.  It's expensive at about $25US for 1.5 cu. ft.  It has most of the ingredients you listed and a few others.

With all the ingredients you listed, are you just looking for a base soil to amend to make your own mix?


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## FUM (Mar 13, 2010)

Exactly BBF. Just an true organic base soil to mix my goodies into. Bingo you got it. For sure i will look into "Roots Organic". Hopefully this is the end of the road for my hunt. Thank you BBF and green blessings.


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## panic in paradise (Mar 13, 2010)

roots organic is some good stuff., and they have a soiless aireation mix aswell.

i bout 2cuF. of that, and then started mixing it my self afterwards, you have total control or knowledge of what you are adding. it isnt "organic" 100% but prehistoric peatmoss is hard to labe as organic,  as well as other possible ingredients.

"organic" or "custom" but natural - additive free - from the eatrh, mixed and ammended by your own hands is nice too...  and the only way i could imagine doing it... 

get the roots organic, it is good stuff, but really, i use the first bag to pour used soil into for reammending sweetining up, and then to be used out side. try making your own batches. its a bit expensive gathering all the ingredients initially, but then youll be making 15g bin after 15g bin, of wonderfull, chem free/addive free, as is soil, made by yours truely, you! 

different plants like different ingredients aswell, or different amounts of aireation, topfeed, or bottom. do the roots dive? or spread? i just couldnt have some one think they know what my plants need, i have a spectrum and they are all picky, except the AKs and purple ice haha.


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 13, 2010)

panic in paradise said:
			
		

> roots organic is some good stuff., and they have a soiless aireation mix aswell.
> 
> i bout 2cuF. of that, and then started mixing it my self afterwards, you have total control or knowledge of what you are adding. it isnt "organic" 100% but prehistoric peatmoss is hard to labe as organic,  as well as other possible ingredients.
> 
> ...


:yeahthat: 

PIP is correct about the initial cost, but I noticed a 2cf bag (~15 gallons) is +-$40.

I just mixed up 2cf of my own mix, 100% chemical free, organic (if you can count peat moss and perlite as organic), for (estimate), ~$10 or less.

Buying soil/mix is silly when you can do it much cheaper and waaaaay better than anything that comes in a bag.

DD


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## panic in paradise (Mar 13, 2010)

i see how your patients are demanding an organic grow, again use the roots organic, i go through the largest clinic and providers in WA st, and in the back amongst disgarded flood tables, and other stuff that makes me wish they would have a garage(haha) sale! there are stashes of empty RO bags.

when i go for clones, there is ordinarily around 75 - 100 to chose from, if that tells you anything. but i think the use the RO for rooting plants, and mix their own for the bigguns.


while growing this crop in the RO, be working on your own soild mix, its also nice to have the raw materials around. for instance, i have rockwool slabs/blocks, and cubes that i can cut up for clonning, or recent, filling 3 gal pots for flowering in, peat and pearlite 50/50 for a seedling bed, coco and pearlite(65/35) for a nice "organic" soiless mix to keep mothers, or to use in ebb and flow for vegging, then to tranfer into soil for flowering, peat/wormcasts/pearlite(40/30/30) as a top soil or to scatter in arounf the roots while repotting. 

use vermiculite/pearlire(50/50) for cuts, or at the bottom of pots like afghans and such whom like prefer, bottom feeding.

be careful with the worcasts, do not use more the 1/20 into your mix. eart juice nutrients have all the things you are looking for;

earth juice - grow is blood meal, steamed bone meal, bat guano, sulfate of potash, sea kelp, and molasses.

EJ catalyst, is oat bran, sea kelp, wheat malt, molasses, and yeast(conditions/fluffs soil,  attracts moisture to the roots and builds an environment for microorganisms to thrive in, which is a laaarge part of "organic" growing. you must have those micro organisms, your patients might not understand, that "organic" in this sense should be defined, as using a living medium.

these nutes are extremely sensitive, i spray my orchids with them, and jamacain bat guano, in a 1/3 solution, and have never burned one flower, and they are notoriously touchy...

i do add a cup or more of organicare - pure granular bloom per 10-12 gallons of soil

it is organic and consists of;
composted poultry litter, fish meal, sulfate of potash, and seaweed. 6% calcium, and 25 humic acid.

i dont see how they can certify some of these things as organic, like the peat moss which cannot be, seaweed, kelp, bat guano, fish emulsion(farm raised id guess ;( ) feather meal,  they are harvested from the earth wild so no guarentees can be made, they are hopefully the most pure form of the product, cleansed of harmful impurities and then used. gathered hopefully in a timely, thoughtfull way, unlike hydroton and pearlite which are stip mined, but i can not imagine planting anything in soil w/o pearlite... maybe teracotta pieces, or styraphome... but id rather pearlite.


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## FUM (Mar 14, 2010)

pip, i just googled roots organic soil, i like what they say about it and going to run it. Just like you were sayin' pip, gathering all your own ingredients , mixing them up for each lady/plant and knowing that now it is (now) basically chemical free and naturally resentment to pest, molds, mildew, frost, drought and so much more. Growing organically is harder and cost a little more, But the rewards totally out-weight cost and work. Folks say that they love my smoke and tell me that they hoard it for themselves and don't share it with others. That's telling me that I'm doing something right, and it's going to get better and more better. 2010 is going to rock in the SUN baby.Green Blessings to you all.

Why must i watch the amount of worm-castings in my mixture?


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## BBFan (Mar 14, 2010)

panic in paradise said:
			
		

> EJ catalyst, is oat bran, sea kelp, wheat malt, molasses, and yeast(conditions/fluffs soil, attracts moisture to the roots and builds* an environment for microorganisms to thrive in, which is a laaarge part of "organic" growing.* you must have those micro organisms, your patients might not understand, that "organic" in this sense should be defined, as using a living medium.


 
Hey PIP- Good post!

But the micros and the necessary environment to sustain them are not a large part of organic growing. They are THE part. Without them, your plants will not benefit from organic amendments as typically they need the micros to break them down into usable elements.

When mixing teas or soils, I add mychos directly to the mix to increase and maximize the beneficial microbes and fungi. They're readily available and of course totally organic.

I use about 20% worm castings in my mix. Loaded with beneficials.

Good luck FUM! Can't wait to see what you achieve this year.


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 14, 2010)

Why would peat moss not be considered organic?  I mean it does come from eons of dying/dead spagnum moss collecting in a bog.  If not organic, then certainly natural. 

I used to get bale's of spagnum back when I lived in a climate where I could grow platycerium ferns (staghorn ferns), and used a peat moss mix for those ferns that went in the soil.

Perlite I can understand, but it is a mineral and inert after it gets 'expanded'.  Life would be very difficult without perlite and I end up using 3-4 4cf bags a year.

DD


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## panic in paradise (Mar 14, 2010)

BBFan said:
			
		

> Hey PIP- Good post!
> 
> But the micros and the necessary environment to sustain them are not a large part of organic growing. They are THE part. Without them, your plants will not benefit from organic amendments as typically they need the micros to break them down into usable elements.
> 
> ...



haha i stand corrected 

the 20% wormcast thing  is very imporatant.. i dont knowwhat happens exactly, but easy on the stuff, id imagine nute burn, like fire.

i keep an 8 qt bag a LB of wormcasts, and then add +,-- 2 quarts peat moss, and 2.2-2.5 peatrlite. and as i said, that is used as top soil, or for when replanting placed around the roots.

or as a tea, but lots of guarenteed analasys compost, will have WC's in it; MUSHROOM compost!

i regretfully didnt use any MRC this batch, but when i did, my BlueBerry's went nutso in it. amazing.


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## 2Dog (Mar 14, 2010)

I use roots organic and the roots organic grow and bloom products


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## FUM (Mar 18, 2010)

So a plant won't grow in 100% worm castings ?  I would think that that would be the bomb. Or 50%. Has anyone ever tried this??? I don't think that they'd burn at all. Please advise. Someone out there knows and we'll find them here on MP by g. Green Blessings.


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## Droopy Dog (Mar 18, 2010)

FUM said:
			
		

> So a plant won't grow in 100% worm castings ?  I would think that that would be the bomb. Or 50%. Has anyone ever tried this??? I don't think that they'd burn at all. Please advise. Someone out there knows and we'll find them here on MP by g. Green Blessings.



Yes, you CAN grow in 100% WC, it will not burn anything.

The 20% deal is because WC are so darned heavy and dense that you run the very real risk of waterlogging/rot and the like.

It's great stuff (I have my own worm bin), but too much of it will make your mix too soggy.

DD


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## FUM (Mar 20, 2010)

Thank you DD that's answered my ?. I did not think that WC's would burn the plants.


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## panic in paradise (Mar 20, 2010)

i have an ATF, and a Hawaiin Frost in 3 gal pts that just started floweringt, in all Grodan GowCubes and a top soil of coco/pearlite/peat/WC's. they, well all my plants, have only been getting Earth Juice products, Jamacain Bat guano, Mollasas, and_ superthrive_.

they seem to love the enviroment of the Grow Cubes, which as im sure you know is basically nothing, except whats put in. 

the nutrient content of your mix is trivial compared to the texture, you will have to give them nutrients eventually, like with a month at the most... texture is something you will have to play with. grab a handful, squezze it, let it go and sit in the palm of yor hand.. it should expand a bit, then stop, and with a poke of your finger, crumble down. its kind of nerve wracking potting your plants in your soil the first time, unsure of how it will turnm  out.

3 cococoir
2 pearlite
1.2 sphagnum peat moss
.7 compost guranteed nute anlasis & searility
bottom 2" hydroton

i have recently seen wormcats mixed with coco shavings, probally 65/35 for soil buffering, or as a wetting agent/sweetener, sold by the sq1' and id bet could added freeley; reasonably priced too.

this is an interesting page about organic/inorganic soil soil ammendments, and amending, as well as CEC/substarte comparisons.


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