# Watts vs. Yield



## old blue (Sep 1, 2008)

I'd like to get to the bottom of the lighting issue here. If someone were to have a 400watt hps in a 4x4 area, would they DOUBLE their yield by adding an additional 400watter(using lst method, so not worried about the penetration issue), with all other factors being equal? Or what would a realistic increase be in yield? I'm trying to figure out if the cost to yield would be worth it in the end.


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## Kupunakane (Sep 1, 2008)

Yo Ho old blue,
  The chase for more Lumens is a beautiful thing. As long as your not burning your babies up then you only need to consider what is realistic. In a 4X4 area a 600 watt Hps with a lean towards the blue shift will do well. Obviously 800 watts would surpass that as would a 1000 watter.  The plants will take as much as you wish to give them. Consider how many Lumens are put out by the Sun !!
  It comes down to what you can afford, and can you dispense the heat, and will your large increase in electrical usage draw attention. 

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna


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## old blue (Sep 1, 2008)

KingKahuuna said:
			
		

> Yo Ho old blue,
> The chase for more Lumens is a beautiful thing. As long as your not burning your babies up then you only need to consider what is realistic. In a 4X4 area a 600 watt Hps with a lean towards the blue shift will do well. Obviously 800 watts would surpass that as would a 1000 watter.  The plants will take as much as you wish to give them. Consider how many Lumens are put out by the Sun !!
> It comes down to what you can afford, and can you dispense the heat, and will your large increase in electrical usage draw attention.
> 
> ...



I'm not worried about cost. But i DO want to use the 400 i already have also. I pretty sure heat won't be a problem either, cause it'll be in a walkin closet. and if need be, i'll vent exhaust into the attic and add a portable a/c.  What would u recommend adding to my 400 for that size space? i didn't know if it would make growth uneven if i connect a 600 to a 400. I may even decide to go to a 4x5 space instead for a lil more room, if i'm adding more lighting.


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## old blue (Sep 1, 2008)

I just thought of something. How bout adding one of those $20 150watt hps vapor tight lights to each end of my 400??? That'll add 30,000 lumens for only $40, bringing my total up to 85,000 lumens. ;-)  Or do u think it'd be possible to fit one of those 150 watters onto each side of a cooltube, or would the bulbs touch? hmmm.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 2, 2008)

Puffnstuff has a good thread in the DIY on air cooling a 150w hps.

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28235

I am working on a dual 150W cool tube set up. It is a bit different, but this thread inspired me.


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## old blue (Sep 2, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Puffnstuff has a good thread in the DIY on air cooling a 150w hps.
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28235
> 
> I am working on a dual 150W cool tube set up. It is a bit different, but this thread inspired me.



That's an awesome setup! Are those the $20 150watters that everyone is raving about, or regular ones with a detached ballast? I wanna make one just like that. Where'd u get the glass?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 2, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> That's an awesome setup! Are those the $20 150watters that everyone is raving about, or regular ones with a detached ballast? I wanna make one just like that. Where'd u get the glass?



Thanks.  I got these lights at a yard sale for $2 each, but they were the enclosed yard light type of HPSs, so I think they are the same.  The glass is a Pyrex Bakearound, made for baking round bread loaves.  They are not made anymore.   I have purchased several from E-bay.  I am going to do a DIY on this, but I have a bit of electrical work left to do.  I may go ahead and start the DIY--all that's actually left is putting ends on the cords.  I am going to use this light on a scrog that I have started (my first scrog).


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## lyfr (Sep 2, 2008)

i used a 400 for a 2x4 hydro tray for several grows and it did great IMO.  so 2-400's for twice the space + or - the extra foot would work great. IMO the extra 400 would do much better than 2-150's and is probably more efficiant electrically.  at 100 bucks its only 60 more than the 150's


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## Albrecht (Sep 2, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Puffnstuff has a good thread in the DIY on air cooling a 150w hps.
> 
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28235
> 
> I am working on a dual 150W cool tube set up. It is a bit different, but this thread inspired me.



That's cool HG.  btw, what makes it a "cool tube"?  Is it just that the lights are enclosed in glass, or do you have some kind of fan in the glass or something?


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## massproducer (Sep 2, 2008)

i would say that you will need atleast another 400, a 4 x 4 area is right on the upper limits of a 1000 watter, if you are using it efficiently.  A 1000 will give you 62-63 watts per square foot, which is great, adding an extra foot in any deminsion will lower a 1000 to 50 watts per square foot, which is the lowest you really want to go.

I would consider getting another 600 to go with your 400


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 2, 2008)

Albrecht said:
			
		

> That's cool HG.  btw, what makes it a "cool tube"?  Is it just that the lights are enclosed in glass, or do you have some kind of fan in the glass or something?



It is called a cooltube because you do have the ability to cool it--in fact that is the only real reason for enclosing the bulbs in glass--so that you can put a fan and ducting onto the glass tube and cool the light.  I am thinking that  I will probably use CPU fans on this particular setup to cool the light.  Since it is only 2 150W bulbs, I think that will be enough.


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## old blue (Sep 2, 2008)

massproducer said:
			
		

> i would say that you will need atleast another 400, a 4 x 4 area is right on the upper limits of a 1000 watter, if you are using it efficiently.  A 1000 will give you 62-63 watts per square foot, which is great, adding an extra foot in any deminsion will lower a 1000 to 50 watts per square foot, which is the lowest you really want to go.
> 
> I would consider getting another 600 to go with your 400



Hey MP, instead of buying a 600 to add and a flouro setup for my vegging area, i'm probably better off just using my 400 with my mh bulb(it's htg's digital 400 w/a hps bulb and a mh bulb) for the vegging area instead of flouros, and then just buying a single 1000 hps for the flowering, right? That'll probably be a cheaper and more efficient way to go, huh?


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## Albrecht (Sep 2, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> It is called a cooltube because you do have the ability to cool it--in fact that is the only real reason for enclosing the bulbs in glass--so that you can put a fan and ducting onto the glass tube and cool the light.  I am thinking that  I will probably use CPU fans on this particular setup to cool the light.  Since it is only 2 150W bulbs, I think that will be enough.



So lemme see if I have this right.  The glass doesn't get in the way of the light coming out, and the way that you cool it is put a duct perpendicular to the glass tube and then put a fan at the other end, and that will cool the whole light the best?  Do you think that's better than having a smallish 6" fan blowing directly on the exposed bulb?  Because I have two lights like those going, and plan on using then in subsequent grows, and would like to tighten up my setup for optimal cooling in the future.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 4, 2008)

This set up is not a lot different from the larger cooltube setups you can buy.  If you have a larger light, a smallish fan does almost nothing to control the heat.  With an enclosed bulb that is connected to ducting, the heat is actually "carried away" and exhausted where you want.  In the winter, I use the heat from my lights to help warm my house.  

Every light I use or have ever used has been air cooled.  I think that it makes a big difference in the heat.  I will need to mount some kind of reflector over this (unless I decide to use it vertically).


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## RIDERX70 (Sep 6, 2008)

What light is better for budding? A 600 MH or a 1000 HPS.  I am curious because the MH has an orange light and the HPS has a white light.


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## raoulduke2.0 (Sep 7, 2008)

RIDERX70 said:
			
		

> What light is better for budding? A 600 MH or a 1000 HPS.  I am curious because the MH has an orange light and the HPS has a white light.




I think everyone would agree that High pressure sodium lights are unsurpassed in their ability to bring the best out of a plant.


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## PUFF MONKEY (Sep 7, 2008)

RIDERX70 said:
			
		

> What light is better for budding? A 600 MH or a 1000 HPS. I am curious because the MH has an orange light and the HPS has a white light.


.....other way around...i use a 1000w HPS for budding...only thing better is the sun


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## Puffin Afatty (Sep 7, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> I'd like to get to the bottom of the lighting issue here. If someone were to have a 400watt hps in a 4x4 area, would they DOUBLE their yield by adding an additional 400watter(using lst method, so not worried about the penetration issue), with all other factors being equal? Or what would a realistic increase be in yield? I'm trying to figure out if the cost to yield would be worth it in the end.


 
*I use a 400 in a 4x4 area and my plant fills it completely.  I tie her down alot to keep the canopy within the effective range of the 400w [20-22 inches]  adding another light will do me no good above the canopy, however, using a stronger light [600/1000] or providing light below , would allow me to deepen the canopy and increase yield   that said, in a 4x4 area any lamp stronger than a 400w is largely wasted horizontally, while the vertical depth of the canopy can be deepened.:hubba: *


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## Hick (Sep 7, 2008)

400 Watt HPS Hortilux Bulb - 54000 Lumens
4x4= 16 sq ft
54,000 in 16 sq ft = 3,375 L.p.sq ft.
  I wouldn't say a 600 would be a "waste" at all.. 
600 watt hps 90,000 lumen
90,000 in 16 = 5,625 L.p.sq.ft
but about perfect.. IMO


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## old blue (Sep 7, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> 400 Watt HPS Hortilux Bulb - 54000 Lumens
> 4x4= 16 sq ft
> 54,000 in 16 sq ft = 3,375 L.p.sq ft.
> I wouldn't say a 600 would be a "waste" at all..
> ...



With that being said, would a 1k be even better than the 600? Because if i'm buying a new light, there isn't much price difference between the 600 and the 1k. I know that heat is the big issue with more watts, but i'll be running a dedicated outside inlet and exhaust running thru an air cooled hood, so there shouldn't be too much of a problem.  And i also have about 9' of ceiling height to move light around. Btw, i'm still not sure if i'll use 4x4 or 4x5 floor space. I want 4 big plants.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Sep 7, 2008)

old blue said:
			
		

> With that being said, would a 1k be even better than the 600? Because if i'm buying a new light, there isn't much price difference between the 600 and the 1k. I know that heat is the big issue with more watts, but i'll be running a dedicated outside inlet and exhaust running thru an air cooled hood, so there shouldn't be too much of a problem.  And i also have about 9' of ceiling height to move light around. Btw, i'm still not sure if i'll use 4x4 or 4x5 floor space. I want 4 big plants.



When talking about lighting, more is generally better, if you can control the heat.  I think a 1000W is the best choice for a 20 sq ft space.


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## BuddyLuv (Sep 7, 2008)

The more light the bigger the yeild.


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## kasgrow (Sep 7, 2008)

I recommend going with the 1000 watt hps for flowering. The difference in price to buy is not much. The 1000 watt bulbs are easier to find and cheaper than the 600. I have both a 600 and 1000 in my garden. The 1000 will fill your area better and give you more penetration. I am only running one light right now since I don't need to grow many plants right now. I have 3 large plants and one smaller plant growing right now. I have had as many as 20 growing under a single 1000 in a sog with excellent results.


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## HydroManiac (Sep 8, 2008)

a gram per watt of sog is considerd good


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## New_2_Chronic (Sep 9, 2008)

The 600 will put out more lumens per watt than the 1000... therfore more light using less energy....no brainer in my book... I have a 600HPS in a 4X4.... does quite nicely....


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## old blue (Sep 9, 2008)

New_2_Chronic said:
			
		

> The 600 will put out more lumens per watt than the 1000... therfore more light using less energy....no brainer in my book... I have a 600HPS in a 4X4.... does quite nicely....



I see ur point, about more lumens per watt. BUT, the bottom line is, the 600 still produces ALOT less total lumens.  So, for an extra $40, u get 55,000 extra lumens.  i think it'd be a lil foolish not to purchase the 1k, as long as it can be vented enough.


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## Puffin Afatty (Sep 9, 2008)

* horizontally, a 400w covers a 22 inch radius[44 inch circle], a 600w will cover a  33 inch radius[66 inch circle] and a 1000w will cover a 53 inch radius[106 inch circle]  The depth of a canopy it will effectively grow is equal to the radius when the lamp is suspended above a level canopy

When I say wasted, I simply mean the lamp could cover more than the 4x4 area horizontally :hubba:

by surrounding the lamp vertically and horizontally, you could increase the depth of the canopy with the same 400w lamp*


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## BuddyLuv (Sep 9, 2008)

you want to basically have 50 watts per square foot when flowering.


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 10, 2008)

im growing in a closet box dem. 20'' - 29'' - 52.5''  and i have a 600 watt mh/ hps. i calculated the square feet at 3.89 is this correct? and i also calculated my watts per square foot at 154 is this bad? as its 3 times the minimum amount? and my box without anything done to it yet no exhaust, intake, lights, stays at 74.7 degrees and 41% humidity how hot do u think the light will make the room if i have 2 4" dampers for intake and a 6'' vortex 449 cfm exhaust?


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