# breeding help



## sunakard2000 (Nov 30, 2015)

just got a few questions id like to get answered,
first off a bit of info, i currently have 3 Satori growing, 2 have shown as male and the third is female, although i can simply clone and keep the female going i would like to have seeds for the future in case something happens and i need to restart from scratch.
one male is tall and has thinner long leaves, the other male is a bit shorter, much more compact and has big fat wide leaves.
my thought was to take a batch of clippings from the female and get them rooted, as i am not looking to get a whole crap ton of seeds i was thinking of growing the clippings out for a few weeks just to get them a bit bigger and then start flowering them. i guess my biggest question for this would be timing, i know males take a little less time to mature while the females take a bit longer, so when should i put the males into 12/12 for flowering, and how far into flowering do i need to wait for pollination, i want to just keep them all in the same tent and let them pollinate a bit more naturally and clean the tent later before i put more plants in to flower, 
i just want to make sure my timing is correct so the females are far enough into flowering when the males start to burst pollen so the females have enough time for the seeds to fully mature.
this is my first time pollinating plants so any and all info to keep them on track time wise would be helpful. thanks in advance


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## Rosebud (Nov 30, 2015)

You could take clones of the male to slow him down. I like fertilizing in my bathtub. Then after they are bred you can kill the males and wash down the walls and the tub and the female.  I have never had a problem doing it that way.
Another thing is if the male is ready faster you can collect pollen. Again in the bathroom. Away from any grow. 

Let me know if you need more info.  Good on the extra satori seeds. The thinner stemmed one would seem to be more sativa to me but satori always has big fat fan leaves that look indica.


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## sunakard2000 (Nov 30, 2015)

the female i have just showed 4 days ago, but the 2 males showed about 2 weeks ago, if i take clones from the female and pollinate the original and put the males and the female into flower at the same time, would they mature at the needed rate, i dont remember how long but i remember reading that seeds need a specific amount of weeks to fully mature before the plant can be harvested, but the plant needs to be so old before pollinating so the seed maturation lines up with typical harvest for that strain, i really dont want to botch the first attempt at this since i really dont want to do it again, but figured since i have a good bushy fat leaved male and a female that making seeds would be better then buying more from Mandala, good product but why bother with the insane cost and possible loss in transit... this just seemed easier lol. just looking to have some stashed away for that proverbial rainy day.

also im guessing you meant you pollinate not fertilize in your tub so you dont have to clean the grow room, do you still grow them out and just bag and carefully move them to the tub for pollinating? im a little confused on that part of your response. 

also after some thinking time iv decided to trash the tall thin male in favor for the shorter bushier fatter leaf male. i like the aroma of the fatter one and it looks to have more tricomes so why not breed those qualities into the female, which looks like she is kinda inbetween the 2 males, not as lanky as one but also not as compact and fat as the other.


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## Rosebud (Nov 30, 2015)

Sorry if i confused you. In this case fertilizing and pollinating are the same thing. Seeds need 6 weeks roughly to mature. I like to pollinate pre-flowers and then let her flower normally. That way you can get 100 or so seeds. not the whole plant. Then you will have a finished female with bud and seeds at the same time.. Not seeded bud, just the preflowers are seeded. 

This is what i do and I am no breeder but I have done some "pollen chucking"  I take the female with either flowers or preflowers into the bathtub. I bring in the male. I shake his pollen over the female. I let them spend the night together. Then rinse him and kill him and bag him in the bathtub.  Then I rinse her off. Water kills pollen, but not after 24 hours. But i rinse her and let her dry before taking her back to flower room so no pollen is taken back.

Your method of picking a male is really good. Most folks go by smell of the males and of course structure, etc.  So sounds like you have a nice male. All mandala stuff is nice.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 2, 2015)

so if i pollinate the preflowers instead of the whole plant, so i dont get a crapton of seeds, im guessing that once seeds mature they cant "over mature" like the plant can if flowered too long, so basically they should be ready 2-3weeks before the plant is, correct?
also i still need to flower the male ahead of time inorder to pollinate the preflowers yes?


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## Rosebud (Dec 2, 2015)

The boy needs to have balls first, then they open to little white flowers that are full of pollen. The seeds, most of them will stay put til you harvest. OR you can take them when they are nice and dark.

Yes, the boy needs to flower so he has the pollen.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 2, 2015)

well seeing as im short on grow space, i mean i have a good sized veg area and a large 6.5x6.5x7.5ft tent for flowering, but thats it, i dont really have another room i can segregate a male to, guess ill just have to flower the male in the tent and clean it really good the day the female sits in my tub getting it on with the male... eeh better then nothing i suppose.
1 more question, since as i said i dont have another room i can flower the male in, would bagging him for transit down the hall to the bathroom be a bad thing or is that alright, yah know to try and keep pollen from going everywhere...

By the way Rose, THANK YOU so much for the speedy and very helpful replies, i know somewhere on this site all the info i needed was just laying around in some thread somewhere, but this is a pretty huge site with tons of threads, its so nice to have people like you who just know everything lol, so much nicer to ask a few questions and get the answers needed without countless hours and hours of trolling through endless threads... lol iv done that before when i first started so i dont really want to do that again ;P

ill get some pics and such when things are almost ready to start rockin and ill update my grow journal since i never did get around to finishing out my first satori/fruitylicious grow journal.

thanks again for everything, out of all the sites, this is still my top favorite. the community is awesome!


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## Rosebud (Dec 2, 2015)

Thanks Sunakard. Yes, bag him. Pollen is lighter than air. Water is your friend when it comes to killing pollen.

I have had pollen release in the grow room, could you tell? LOL, it is a giant mess to clean.. because it is light than air. Since you only have one female it isn't as scary as pollinating a whole room.  Good luck.. you may want to play some  nice music for the couple.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 2, 2015)

The males will flower with very little light.  I do not do much breeding, but when I did, I put the male in a cabinet in my storage shed with a T5 light and he did just fine.  I didn't want to take a chance of the male dropping pollen and pollinating everything.  You might want to try and find a place that you can sequester the males as you never can predict when they will open and spew pollen.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 2, 2015)

hey THG, when you sequestered the male in your shed, did you have any fans on it like usual to keep airflow or just the light, i could set something up in my bedroom for a few weeks if needed but i dont have any extra fans to use. if he would be fine in an open room with just a T5 i could do that, would make it easier i suppose since i wouldnt have to clean a tent, my original plan was to just clean the tent, i figured the ventilation system hooked upto the tent would be enough to keep pollen from escaping into the general room, but i wasnt planning on having anything but the male in the tent, the female still needs a few weeks to veg out, i plan on taking 7 clippings this friday to clone, the female auto topped herself at the 3rd node, weird but hey she looks great, just took a few weeks longer to recover and show sex.


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## sMACkaddict (Dec 2, 2015)

I would be worried the fan would blow away all the pollen...


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## RubyRed (Dec 2, 2015)

I like to start flowering the target female a week before the Male so as She will have more pistils available for take. ( some males will start dropping pollen a week 10 days and female may not have much hairs)   I also like to use the same tent room..when the male has finished dropping I then chop him into a garbage bag and take away.  I wait a few hrs then mist the female and remove her for room cleaning. The thing I dont like about "selected: pollenating"  is that when the plant is producing the seed..it slows the production of THC so and IME stray pollen cant be controlled..

I agree with thehempgodess on the male not needing much light.  My first pollen collecting I used a refrigerator box and a few cfl bulbs.  be sure he still gets 12/12 and correct temps.  another thing people forget it the feedings.  If you want the best seeds you can get then why not treat the male as you do the female??  if you just want collect pollen this is the way I would attempt it.  

Have fun


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## RubyRed (Dec 2, 2015)

sMACkaddict said:


> I would be worried the fan would blow away all the pollen...




Not blow away but blow outside and all over you.  be sure to mist yourself down before entering the females room as pollen can attach to your cloths and then blow off to the females...just saying:joint4:


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## RubyRed (Dec 2, 2015)

H2O Kills Pollen


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 3, 2015)

I just used a small computer fan to maintain some air flow, but it was not much.  The pollen did not get blown away, but you could put some kind of filter on the exhaust (such as it is) to catch pollen if you are worried about the pollen being sucked out.

I have some concern that the clones may take too long to root and get big enough to pollinate as the male is already flowering.  You may want to try and collect some of the pollen.  I would also suggest taking pollen from both males as it seems they are 2 different phenos.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 3, 2015)

well a little late for that, i already murdered the tall lanky male, i just didnt like how it looked or smelled, i really like the short and compact male he has such a fruity scent with a hint of skunky pine... ooh well, after all im only looking to make some seeds for the future and those "rainy days" when things go sideways and i gotta restart, 
also i have already abandoned the clone>flower idea, as per Rosebud im going to just let the female grow out a bit more, let her get bigger and more preflowers, then by the time the male is ready and done, the female will be big enough to pollinate her preflowers, i do want seeds but not seedy bud, so it seems like a good idea, one of those 2 birds one stone kinda deals. hell even if i only get like 20 seeds ill be happy, its 20 that i wouldnt have to pay 14 bucks per for... so that will be worth it, plus as my last grow, well went sideways and i had to restart i never did get a chance to taste any finished satori, but the smells were awesome so im really looking forward to both good bud and seeds for later on.

i really do appreciate the help and info from everyone. its been helpful and still the ever growing learning experience... ill keep yall posted on whats going on when things get a bit closer. 

ooh one last question, since i know THG and Rose have grown out satori and id assume at least one male, about how long does it take for a satori male to fully mature and be ready to drop pollen? like 5-6weeks if i had to guess?


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 3, 2015)

ooh also my tent would vent right outside my room, not back into it, and i do have a carbon scrubber filter so that would catch anything if it was actually necessary, but seeing as its vented outside its not an issue, 

btw i already got a small set up with little air circulation, i can add a fan from a distance if absolutely  necessary, for the male to flower, in another rooms closet which is next to the bathroom, so even less distance to carry the male...


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## RubyRed (Dec 3, 2015)

Male starts dropping pollen around week 3 of 12/12,  It will open a few in week 1 nad even his preflower can open while in veg.  IME  the Male is finished around week 6 of 12/12.  if your just collecting pollen I would suggest you place the male slightly sideways (tilted) and place a cookie sheet under it so pollen falls on it and then a couple times a day tap his stalk and pollen falls on sheet.  hope this helps


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## The Hemp Goddess (Dec 4, 2015)

I have only grown out 1 male and it was years ago--I really do not remember.  Sorry.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 4, 2015)

no problem, i appreciate the help either way... 

iv gotten a pretty basic and thrown together setup for the male in my bedroom closet as opposed to my spare bedroom (grow room) with a tent, but its good enough i guess, decent air flow, very very subtle, not enough to rustle leaves or even make it sway so i think it will be good enough for the male.

the female iv been training her into a wide Y almost T shape to expose the undergrowth for faster growth for clones, its almost perfect that the one of the 3 that happened to be female somehow auto topped herself at the 3rd node and is kicking strong, and when i took the clones just a few min ago i didnt clip all the way to the stalk, leaving just the first set of leaves and their new growth of the side branches i took as clones, hoping for a nice full and bushy plant before she goes into flower when ever the male is ready, so loads of female preflowers for seeds and then into flower for nice nuggets... or so i hope... 

thanks again for all the help, ill be setting up a new journal sometime soon of this new grow, once things get a little more progressed.


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## Rosebud (Dec 4, 2015)

If you put him in 12/12 it will probably take 3-4 weeks for pollen, I think that may be strain dependent, not sure. After you see balls it can take 2 weeks for all the flowers to open but some will open sooner.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 7, 2015)

ooh awesome, even less time then i expected, and yes he was already showing balls, like 1-2 per crotch of stem and side shoots, some places a cluster of 3 already, so hopefully its as you say and only a few weeks... would line up perfectly... 

granted its only been the weekend but the clones are still looking nice and healthy and if all goes well they should start blasting roots by the end of this week/weekend...

thanks again for all the help, both Rose and THG, as always your info and help is greatly appreciated


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## Rosebud (Dec 7, 2015)

Mojo for seeds!


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 9, 2015)

thanks yet again for all the info and help. the male is currently doing very well in flower, more and more nanner clusters are growing and i cant wait till its further along, my 9 clones from the female are looking great even though i had to adjust things so the dome would keep more moisture, and the female herself is looking all sorts of sexy lol... coming along nicely... almost wish sometimes there was a fast forward button on these plants lol...


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 20, 2015)

ok so this morning i went to check on my male, i noticed that a single pod on one of the lower branch nodes popped and spewed onto the leaf below... seeing as one popped open im sure more will follow... is there anything i should do like maybe put a piece of paper or tin foil down to collect any that doesnt nicely fall onto a leaf? 

seeing as its getting closer to finishing, might still have a few weeks to go for the majority of the plant, but reguardless i want to make sure iv covered every base... 

thanks in advance for the help


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## Rosebud (Dec 20, 2015)

Yes, put a catcher under him. We actually saved pollen in a tiny jar. A make up (powder or blush) brush is the way to knock the pollen off without it flying to far...  Aren't those little white flowers tiny? and kinda cute?


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 20, 2015)

yeah i was actually just looking closer at it a few min ago thats really funny you said something, i was just thinking the little white flower with tiny little nanner shaped pods hanging inside the white flower by the smallest most itsybitsy stems i have ever seen... they really do look pretty and its so interesting just how drastically different the males are from the females.
and its pretty perfect that i got a small makeup brush already cleaned and waiting from when i had strawberries a few years back.
so i was leaning towards the tin foil because its way easier to see fine white/beige pollen then on white paper lol. so is it ok to just have it sitting ontop of the pot around the base of the plant or should i do something to rig it up higher towards the bottom most branches? im not in a super hurry since it was only one pod/flower and it was on the crotch of the main stalk and the 2nd from bottom most side branch. just dont wanna do something i shouldnt yah know.


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## Rosebud (Dec 20, 2015)

I like parchment paper to collect. It is easy to get off the paper and into what ever you are putting in on..I think you lose less, but not sure. Are you going to breed to one of the females now or just collect or what?

Liked your observation about the males.. Nature is so interesting. males don't have that much going for them unless you count those little white flowers and what they produce. 

I was just thrilled I wasn't allergic to this pollen.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 20, 2015)

yeah i was thinking of cleaning up my room a bit and setting up the tent again for flowering, give the female i have a week to pump out more preflowers since at the moment there are like only 20 or so over the whole plant and id like a bit more then that, then just pollinate the one female and be done with it, im mainly breeding to get more satori seeds since its a satori male and female, i dont think it will be something i do again since keeping them separated isnt as easy as i would like, maybe if i get another small tent i can get into breeding projects but at this point in time its mainly to get more satori seeds without having to A, wait weeks for the shipment hoping it gets through customs, and B the money, i know good genetics are worth every penny but if iv already paid for good genetics why not just make seeds on your own rather then paying like $100+ for say like 10-12 seeds... plus its kind of a cool learning experience, i might revisit the idea later down the road but at this moment im only concerned with replenishing my Satori seed stock, id love to find a short and dense female, i prefer the squatty plants to be honest.


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## Rosebud (Dec 21, 2015)

That all sounds good. Yes, it is a risk breeding. But i would do the same thing if I were you. Free seeds are worth it. And fun to see the pheno's you get.. And lets face it satori is a wonderful plant and smoke. yay,


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 21, 2015)

well i dont have any parchment paper, i do have wax paper but decided against that, just doesnt seem smart so i just went with tin foil, gotta do what yah gotta do... 

so once i get a good bit of pollen to drop/decided to move female to bathroom for breeding, what would be the best method? try to brush off what i can from the male and collect it on my makeshift tray and just dump on female or is there some trick im missing?

sorry for all the questions lol but i dont wanna mess this up, free seeds are awesome but this is kind of a one shot deal since i didnt take any clones from the male... just dont wanna leave anything out i could have asked yah know.


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## Rosebud (Dec 21, 2015)

Here is what i have done, i have no idea if it is right, but i got seeds.

Close vents and turn off fans in the bathroom. Put female in tub. Go get male and close the door.  I shake him over her real well. You can use your pollen and brush some of your collected on if you want.  Or you can save the pollen for another time. Then i turn her and do it again. Then they stay overnight together. In the morning i kill him ( oh dear) and rinse him off well before baggin him and taking him thru the house to the garbage. 
Then I rinse every part of her off so she doesn't have any pollen. Back to her room she goes.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 21, 2015)

cool cool kinda what i thought, so any reason for leaving him with her for the 24hrs


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## Rosebud (Dec 21, 2015)

No, just thought it was polite...LOLOLOLOL...i kill me.


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## sunakard2000 (Dec 22, 2015)

lol polite... about as polite as a Praying Mantis... all like... awe youre cute i wanna bump the nasty with you... ooh that was fun now come here so i can omm nom nom your head off... nom nom nom...


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## Rosebud (Dec 22, 2015)

No, not like that... a nice evening together and the guy leaves and gets hit by a truck..happens all the time.


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## bud88 (Dec 29, 2015)

Too funny!


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## Rosebud (Dec 29, 2015)

Did we get some seeds? I hope so!


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## RubyRed (Dec 29, 2015)

ostpicsworthless:


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## 000StankDank000 (Dec 31, 2015)

No he got hit by a truck remember


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## sunakard2000 (Jan 4, 2016)

lol i havnt scrolled down this far in the main forum page in a while... sorry no, no seeds yet, the male is about 7-10 days from being done with popping all pods, and the female is going into flower tonight to stack on more pistils, currently she only has like 20 or so preflowers and im looking for a bit more seeds then that, so ill let her stretch and flower a little bit in hopes that she stacks on more pistils, im aiming for like 50+, i want a good bag of seeds so i can search for those nice short and stocky females as opposed to all the females iv seen from my original order of Satori seeds from Mandala... the only short and stocky plant i got from the 10 seeds i ordered is the current flowering male, and since i want seeds why not try to breed that structure into the next generation of seeds, would be great to get short, stocky, fat leaf, uber compact structure on a female, heck the male didnt even stretch that much, i wanna say he stretched maybe 50%... he was around a foot tall and now fully flowered he is just a fuzz over 1.5foot tall, so he gained about 6-7 inches from stretch, as opposed to previous females i did flower early last year that doubled in height from flowering stretch... i might not update this thread, but i do have my current grow journal going and ill be posting some pics when things progress a bit more... so check in there, links in my signature if you cant find it in Grow Journals.


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