# why why why, pics



## loolagigi (Feb 24, 2010)

these plants were beautiful 2 days ago. all i did was clean bucket, add 200 ppm, and ph. is it my flora nova nutes? should i flush?  i dont get it.  i  found this floating residue on the edge of my buckets at water level. its not bubbles, the air stone is out.  im ganna clean bucket with h202 and just add plain water with no flora nova.....what else can i do?


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## loolagigi (Feb 24, 2010)

the same thing happened 2 weeks ago. as soon as i added more nutes, then i added some h202, and im sure as the nutes had been uptaken , it was mostley water. they grew great until i added this damn flora nova. whats weird is i have used it before just fine. i dont know anymore. it dosnt look like nute burn....and my ph is dialed in.  sick of cleaning res grrrr


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## ozzydiodude (Feb 24, 2010)

Looks like a Mag deficiency to me by the way the leaves look. :confused2: on the stuff in the water


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## loolagigi (Feb 24, 2010)

i have epsom salt, should i addd some?  maybe its my water?
and if it is a mag def, why do conditions get better as the week goes on?


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## loolagigi (Feb 24, 2010)

just added about 2 tsp of epsom salt. i am afraid to add nutes right now.....as we speak i am waiting for ph to stabilize.    maybe i need to let my water sit out for a day or 2 before introducing the roots?


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## ishnish (Feb 24, 2010)

where's the water coming from??
could be microbes in there already??  maybe?


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## ozzydiodude (Feb 24, 2010)

This was copied and pasted from OG' problem solver Hope it might help 

This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.

If the starting water is above 200 ppm, that is pretty hard water, that will lock out mg with all of the calcium in the water. Either add a 1/4 teaspoon per gallon of epsom salts or lime (both will effectively reduce the lockout or invest into a reverse osmosis water filter.

Mg can get locked-up by too much Ca, Cl or ammonium nitrogen. Don't overdo Mg or you'll lock up other nutrients.


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## loolagigi (Feb 24, 2010)

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> This was copied and pasted from OG' problem solver Hope it might help
> 
> This can be quickly resolved by watering with 1 tablespoon Epsom salts/gallon of water. Until you can correct nutrient lockout, try foliar feeding. That way the plants get all the nitrogen and Mg they need. The plants can be foliar feed at ½ teaspoon/quart of Epsom salts (first powdered and dissolved in some hot water). When mixing up soil, use 2 teaspoon dolomite lime per gallon of soil.
> 
> ...


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## pcduck (Feb 24, 2010)

:confused2: When there is a mag def doesn't the plant _Pray for Mag_ Where the tip curls towards the sky and_ prays_


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## LEFTHAND (Feb 24, 2010)

*the leaves look to be as a taco would...curling in on themself...
yes ..... no.......??
kinda like a nasty ph spike up or down??
LH*


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## PUFF MONKEY (Feb 24, 2010)

did you flush completely or did you flush just enough to break the crappy salts loose and leave a little behind ?


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## ishnish (Feb 24, 2010)

Whoa!!!
there's five plants in the one res????
i think the other four could be starving the poor thing.

I had four in the same res before and one of them were bigger than the other 3 combined, two seemed half ok and the fourth was a runt of runts with strange leaves and whispy worthless buds..

EDIT/ADD:  and they all started out the same size as well as they were all clones from the same mom


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## loolagigi (Feb 24, 2010)

flush completly? i dont know you could do it not completely.  and ish...im just ganna find the females and clone them as a practice run in new closet.


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## ishnish (Feb 24, 2010)

ah...  well I'd recommend one plant per container for the future.
pain in the arse they get to be when they're big..


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## pcduck (Feb 24, 2010)

Well 5 plants using different nutes in different proportion will get ya a screwed up grow(nute deficient) . That is why I like 1 plant one bucket each plant eats what it wants and does not have to worry about what is leftover.


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## WHODAT (Feb 24, 2010)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> the same thing happened 2 weeks ago. as soon as i added more nutes, then i added some h202, and im sure as the nutes had been uptaken , it was mostley water. they grew great until i added this damn flora nova. whats weird is i have used it before just fine. i dont know anymore. it dosnt look like nute burn....and my ph is dialed in. sick of cleaning res grrrr[/quote Are you shaking the bottle before adding to your res ?


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## loolagigi (Feb 24, 2010)

yeah i get it, one pot per plant. its all i had at the time. I AM ONLY USING THESE TO CLONE FROM. they will not be forced to flower. just waiting for some pre flowers, and off with thier heads....cloned to death.  i am doing a bagseed run to make sure i am prepared for the killer genetics that i ordered. 
so far my batting average sucks. i can see how 5 plants need diff things...but then again i have seen dwc totes with several plants in them....as i think about it, they were probably clones...anyway.


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 24, 2010)

ishnish said:
			
		

> Whoa!!!
> there's five plants in the one res????
> i think the other four could be starving the poor thing.
> 
> ...


 

could you define: "half ok"?....and runt of runts?:confused2: 

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: 

IMO epsoms should only be used as a quick fix...if you continue to have problems you should get some cal-mag, or trace minerals....at least give it a sip of molasses.


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## ishnish (Feb 25, 2010)

good question...   half ok = half not ok...   
I suppose i meant to say, that two of them did well but could have done much better if they had their own space..
and the runt of runts is exactly that..  wish i had a pic to show...  cleaned all the MJ related stuff out my comp last december..


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 25, 2010)

I was just giving you a hard time man...no worries, just funning on your choice of words


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## 420benny (Feb 25, 2010)

Is half okay like being  slightly  pregnant? lol


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## ishnish (Feb 25, 2010)

420benny said:
			
		

> Is half okay like being  slightly  pregnant? lol



:rofl:   that's so funny cause my girlfriend IS slightly pregnant!!!
:rofl:


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## zem (Feb 26, 2010)

it could be severe deficiency, in hydro when you flush plants they would show deficiency pretty quickly, 200ppm is way too low, it's not always burns, i'm in hydro and IME i have dealt much more with deficiency than with burns.  in veg under fluros i go with 600 ppm when the plants are big enough. it could also be root problems so H2O2 might help, just take care to give the right ratio of H2O2 too much would burn them and too little would lose its effect. hope this helps


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## loolagigi (Feb 27, 2010)

zem said:
			
		

> it could be severe deficiency, in hydro when you flush plants they would show deficiency pretty quickly, 200ppm is way too low, it's not always burns, i'm in hydro and IME i have dealt much more with deficiency than with burns. in veg under fluros i go with 600 ppm when the plants are big enough. it could also be root problems so H2O2 might help, just take care to give the right ratio of H2O2 too much would burn them and too little would lose its effect. hope this helps


what amount per gallon do you use?


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## zem (Feb 27, 2010)

0.1% of H2O2 30% solution or 1% H2O2 3% actually most of the times i go with 1/2-2/3 of that


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## PUFF MONKEY (Feb 27, 2010)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> flush completly? i dont know you could do it not completely. and ish...im just ganna find the females and clone them as a practice run in new closet.


yeah, you can flush incompletely...depending on your medium..if you break salts loose but do not flush it all out it will do that to your plants..


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## blondeboy (Mar 1, 2010)

*This looks like a chemical deficiency problem. I would suggest gently removing the entire plant from the soil and gently spraying it with a mixture of purified water + a ½ tea spoon of Epson salt.  Remove all of the old soil from the roots with a clean water sprayer. This &#8220;flush&#8221; will immediately remove all toxic chemicals. Thereafter, throw away all of old soil and start over with some new soil that has the right amount of PH level.  The new soil should be very fine.  Then mud-up the soil for a day so that the plant will regenerate its nutrients.  During this process turn off the lights for 12 hours so that the plant can rest and soak up in the mud.  After a day of seating in the muddy soil, remove all the excess water and repot it in some new soil with a little bit of sweet lime. Return it to the regular light cycle.  *


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## legalize_freedom (Mar 1, 2010)

blondeboy said:
			
		

> *This looks like a chemical deficiency problem. I would suggest gently removing the entire plant from the soil and gently spraying it with a mixture of purified water + a ½ tea spoon of Epson salt. Remove all of the old soil from the roots with a clean water sprayer. This flush will immediately remove all toxic chemicals. Thereafter, throw away all of old soil and start over with some new soil that has the right amount of PH level. The new soil should be very fine. Then mud-up the soil for a day so that the plant will regenerate its nutrients. During this process turn off the lights for 12 hours so that the plant can rest and soak up in the mud. After a day of seating in the muddy soil, remove all the excess water and repot it in some new soil with a little bit of sweet lime. Return it to the regular light cycle. *


 
  :huh: :confused2: :confused2: :huh:


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## ozzydiodude (Mar 1, 2010)

:yeahthat::goodposting::confused2:


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## zem (Mar 1, 2010)

:huh: :shocked: :rofl:


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## jmansweed (Mar 1, 2010)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> these plants were beautiful 2 days ago. all i did was clean bucket, add 200 ppm, and ph. is it my flora nova nutes? should i flush?  i dont get it.  i  found this floating residue on the edge of my buckets at water level. its not bubbles, the air stone is out.  im ganna clean bucket with h202 and just add plain water with no flora nova.....what else can i do?



I've had build up in my water similar to the stuff in your pics. It was too much Calcium. Excessive Calcium in the water, when mixed with nutes can lead to build up. Specifically Sulfur and Calcium combine into Gypsom. A white chunky substance. This usually sinks though.?

Your pics look like early Mg def. This is easily a cause of high Calcium also. I may have missed the details on you water supply, do you RO? If not, the above scenario could easily be a cause. 

Epson salts will work but it takes repeated applications. Also, pH, temp and higher EC all have effects on uptake.....happy smoking


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## loolagigi (Mar 1, 2010)

yeah man... i let water stand out and bubble for 24 hours....24 hours later they seem a lot better. on the next res change i will let water dit out again...but if it gets bad again..i will try some distilled water i baught. trying to steer around the distilled water...id rather just use my tap if i can get away with it. ill post pics tomm.  btw i dont have a r/o. money is an issue.


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## legalize_freedom (Mar 2, 2010)

I think jmans saying that maybe your tap has too much ca in it....leaving it sit out longer will not get rid of calcium...I'd go with the distilled or RO, to see if that fixes you.  Thats the problem with tap water...you start out with ppm's that you don't know what it is or the levels it's in there.

I trust jman!


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## trillions of atoms (Mar 2, 2010)

you must have a quality tds ppm ph meter- quality water- quality nutrients and quality genetics to get a quality product. check your meter- if its off calibrate it. drop back on the nutes like your doing and dont go overboard on the Mg. get some distilled water and run that through your system. if youve been feeding with flora nova all along just back off the amount you feed with. if you just added it for the first time- go back to what you were doing before and go from there... if you do good for a while and something happens and youve got your bases covered- start looking at what you might have done differently the last go around and see if you can eliminate that one thing... just take a look at one thing at a time and see if theres something new or different.

 it might be something very simple!


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## jmansweed (Mar 2, 2010)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> i have epsom salt, should i addd some?  maybe its my water?
> and if it is a mag def, why do conditions get better as the week goes on?



As plants grow larger they need more Ca. In your scenario the little ladies can't absorb the amount in your water. This leads to an over abundance generally which limits uptake of Mg and probably a few other nutes as well. We typically notice Mg first.

Fortunately it seems your plants grow through this issue and eventually have the capacity to handle the Ca levels - then Mg becomes more available and growth continues normally.

Maybe try a solid water source for the first few feedings - at least a predictable one. As things progress try switching back to the tap. 

Hope you work it out - they look solid any way....:aok:


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## JBonez (Mar 5, 2010)

fix your ph. Hint, Nova ph will typically rise (well out of the P range) quite a bit over a short amount of time, especially if you use tap water that is more alkaline than the nutrients.

Ive noticed that flora m&b keep the ph almost at the perfect 5.8, I like the natural rise with the nova tho, just too messy


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## loolagigi (Mar 5, 2010)

its my water, i have been using distilled for a week and things have gotten better. never noticed the ph rise with the nova grow.


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## JBonez (Mar 6, 2010)

oops! i was referring to Nova bloom, i used it from seedling to bud w/o the FNG.


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## surreptitious (Mar 10, 2010)

loolagigi said:
			
		

> its my water, i have been using distilled for a week and things have gotten better. never noticed the ph rise with the nova grow.



loolagigi,  i think it's also a combination of the nutes and water.  i have used the flora nova series for my first few rounds of clones.  always had problems, thought it was me.  

on my latest batch of clones i'm using the 3 part GH stuff and it's working a lot better.  you can buy the hardwater micro which i believe has less chlorine, magnesium and calcium.  these nutrients are already present in your 200+ ppm water.

that's my suggestion / opinion.  good luck.


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