# new lights



## zigggy (Aug 5, 2016)

good morning ,,,hey just came into a little cash (800)what to change my flowering room lights not sure want to do ,,,now I have 3 600 hps ,,,was thinking leds but have never used them and I don't believe the hipe ,,,the room is 10x10 ,,,thanks for any help in advance ,,,ssbw


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## Rosebud (Aug 5, 2016)

Hey Zigggy, if it was me I would get another 600 or a 1 K HPS.. just me, hopefully others will chime in.


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## WeedHopper (Aug 5, 2016)

Im with Rose My friend.


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## grass hopper (Aug 5, 2016)

zigggy said:


> good morning ,,,hey just came into a little cash (800)what to change my flowering room lights not sure want to do ,,,now I have 3 600 hps ,,,was thinking leds but have never used them and I don't believe the hipe ,,,the room is 10x10 ,,,thanks for any help in advance ,,,ssbw


 
hi ziggy! i have (3) 600w in a 54 inch by 96 inch tent. i think the lighting is bout perfect. u have more than double my space!! i would run (3) more 600w. be just right imho. run it by htg or any good grow store. seems a few guys are switching back from leds back to hps. BIGGER BUDS! better penetration. if u can move your xtra yield. oh yea.. jmo GOODLUCK.


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## zigggy (Aug 5, 2016)

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*VIPARSPECTRA Reflector-Series 600W LED Grow Light Full Spectrum for Indoor Plants Veg and Flower .....found on amazon 200 each ///do they do what they say?????*


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## Grower13 (Aug 5, 2016)

A friend of mine just harvested 1.6 grams per watt using one of these......... 4x4 space...... 9 plants...... flood and drain system....... General Hydro 3 part  nutrients.

light uses 520 watts.  http://illumitex.com/neosol-ds


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## WeedHopper (Aug 6, 2016)

HPS


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## Rosebud (Aug 6, 2016)

zigggy said:


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Can you send a link zigggy?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 6, 2016)

First, congratulations on coming into some money.  That is always nice.  One of the things to keep in mind with LED is that good LEDs are not cheap....and cheap LEDs are not good.  In other words, I have concerns about a $200 LED being able to replace a 600W HPS.

If you are thinking of the changeover mainly because of heat, you might want to improve your ventilation or add an A/C to the space and stick with your HPS.  And heat is not always bad.  In the winter, I vent the heat from the lights back into my living space.  LOL--at my new house (a grow house in the past), I have ducting that connects to the heating system already in place.

While you do have a 10 x 10 space, you do not necessarily have to use all of it.  If you are happy with a 3 light grow (IMO, a nice sized personal grow), you might consider a tent like grasshopper has and set up a seperate vegging tent/space.  Tents come in all different sizes, so it is easy to get one that works for the space you have.  I love love love having different spaces for veg and flower.  Having seperate vegging and flowering spaces means that you can harvest every 2 months rather than every 4 months.  And could also set up a perpal grow wh plants are cycled in and out of your flowering tent on YOUR schedule.  A veg space/tent can be lit with a relatively inexpensive T5 fluourescent light.  And as these run fairly cool, it is fairly easy to keep the space cool.

You have a lot of options with a 10 x 10 room.  Most of us have some kind of goal or plan in mind when we set up a space.  Maybe if we knew what you hope to get out of your space, we could help you better.  For instance, some people want as large a harvest as they can get.  Edibles and concentrates takes more product than if you just smoke or vape it.  Some people are more interested in quality over quantity.  Some people grow only for themselves, some grow for other, too.  Determine your needs.

I always love being able to improve my grow space.  You have a lot of options.  Have fun with this!


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## Rosebud (Aug 6, 2016)

I was thinking zigggy, if those are your dad's lights you might think about replacing the bulbs too. Just a thought.


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## Gooch (Aug 11, 2016)

i would go with a ceramic metal halide CMH 315 preferably an endomaxx as they are the best, it runs on 240v which means less current and less heat. I just bought one, with 800 you could get 2 and that would cover and 8x8


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## Hushpuppy (Aug 11, 2016)

Is that the same as the double ended bulbs?


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## grass hopper (Aug 11, 2016)

said on radio show growers were getting 2 grams per watt using double ended 1000w bulbs. they sent me one free. i have no use for it. need really high ceilings...   G13, how much for those leds u put a link up on???  do u truly believe he got 1.6 grams per watt?? u see any pics. got to be an AMAZING crop.. thanks!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 12, 2016)

Unfortunately, unless you already have 220V, the CHM would be quite expensive, as you would have to get 220V to your space.  And as one who needed an electrician when we removed a wall for a kitchen remodel....they do not come cheap.  

Grasshopper, why do you need really high ceilings for the 1000W double ended?  What kind of ballast and reflector do they use?   And do YOU believe that people are getting 4-1/2 lbs from a double 1000W?  A 4 oz plant is actually a nice sized plant indoors...but we are talking about 18 4 oz plants to reach 4-1/2 lbs.  Just seems a bit much for the space that a 1000W will cover.

My understanding has always been that you need tall ceiling with LED as the fixtures should be about 2' away to prevent bleaching and get the correct spectrum mix?


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## NorCalHal (Aug 12, 2016)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Grasshopper, why do you need really high ceilings for the 1000W double ended? What kind of ballast and reflector do they use? And do YOU believe that people are getting 4-1/2 lbs from a double 1000W? A 4 oz plant is actually a nice sized plant indoors...but we are talking about 18 4 oz plants to reach 4-1/2 lbs. Just seems a bit much for the space that a 1000W will cover.


 
Hi THG! 

Running Dual ended really breaks away from the traditional model of "1000 watts over a 4x4 area".
I really stopped looking at that way of measuring production from rooms. 

If I was to look at the GPW method, then I am hitting around 3+lbs per 1000w light right now...and that is running less producing tougher strains.
Basically...one of my dual ended lights cover an area around 5.5 x .5.5 feet. Way bigger spread then a regular single ended bulb.
Room design is a huge impact also. By this I mean using the available overlapping light from the fixtures and "squaring" up you garden, allowing no space within the canopy to not be used by the plants. 

I have seen a few rooms with 10' ceilings do well with dual ended, but I prefer 12'.

To give you an example of how high I run those lights, I start the plants out under them a solid 7-8' above them. I have my lights hung at the top of my room and leave them there. I don't move them at all. And no...I do not get plant stretch and long internode spacing at all.
By the time they start pushin' pistils...they are a good 4-5 feet from the lights.
I have a lot more info on this, just holler and I can post some more, I'm just pressed for time right now.


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## Gooch (Aug 13, 2016)

double ended run hps and MH so the white/blue is what stops the stretching, similar to the CMH spectrum which you keep at least 3ft above and get no stretch. its funny i thinka wise investment for every grower would be to switch to 240v, it will literally cut the current in half, meaning less draw, less heat and all of your ballasts can be run with 240 i ran 1 line and have a 4 light controller. I suspect an electrician might charge 100+material that seem like a great investment


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 13, 2016)

LOL, Gooch, I can tell that you have not hired an electrician for a while.  A hundred bucks will not even get them through the door.  I do have 220 at my place (the people who lived here before were quite the growers) and will utilize it when I set up an indoor grow.  I have one ballast that is 220 only and another 1 or 2 that are switchable.  

NCH, thanks for the info on the lights.  Always keeping my eyes open for that something better.  Unfortunately, I do not have the height for the double ended bulbs...I was hoping that you didn't need_that_ much room, but apparently good old 8' ceilings are not going to cut it.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 13, 2016)

Gooch said:


> double ended run hps and MH so the white/blue is what stops the stretching, similar to the CMH spectrum which you keep at least 3ft above and get no stretch. its funny i thinka wise investment for every grower would be to switch to 240v, it will literally cut the current in half, meaning less draw, less heat and all of your ballasts can be run with 240 i ran 1 line and have a 4 light controller. I suspect an electrician might charge 100+material that seem like a great investment


 

Running your equip at 220/240 doesn't really cut your draw in half at all sir. It just splits the draw to 2 hot legs instead of one.
If it takes 9 amps to fire a ballast on 120...then it takes 4.5 amps per leg (still 9 amps total), requiring 2 legs. A little more efficient and but no less amp draw at all.

Yes THG...higher ceilings is a must imho.


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## WeedHopper (Aug 13, 2016)

Glad you explained that NCH,,,thats what i thought.


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## Gooch (Aug 13, 2016)

hrmm i am not sure that is true, if you run 2 parallel circuits the voltage adds up the current stays the same, if you run 2 series circuits the current adds and the voltage stays the same. Sorry its been 20 years since i was in electronics school but i believe you are running 2 120v circuits in parallel when running 240, i could be wrong. Also i have never hired an electrician i do it all myself sorry for the ignorant statement ;-)
here is a site explaining it in more detail then you would ever want to know lol


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## NorCalHal (Aug 13, 2016)

Gooch said:


> hrmm i am not sure that is true, if you run 2 parallel circuits the voltage adds up the current stays the same, if you run 2 series circuits the current adds and the voltage stays the same. Sorry its been 20 years since i was in electronics school but i believe you are running 2 120v circuits in parallel when running 240, i could be wrong. Also i have never hired an electrician i do it all myself sorry for the ignorant statement ;-)
> here is a site explaining it in more detail then you would ever want to know lol


 
You are correct in saying that it is basically 2 120v "hot legs" to make a 240v circuit, all ran back to a 2 pole breaker at the panel.

So, with that said, you are just dividing the amperage load between 2 hot legs instead of 1 when you run 240. That's why when you read the elec info on a ballast, it will say 9 amps at 120v, 4.5 at 240v. That doesn't mean that it only takes 4.5 amps to fire the bulb, it still takes 9 amps to fire it, but at 240, it is 4.5 amps with 2 legs totaling 9 amps to fire it up. Hope this makes sense. I'm pretty danked out.

No matter what, equipment needs so many amps to fire up. Lets use the ballast example again.
Run on 120, its 1 hot leg at 9 amps, at 240, it's 2 legs at 4.5 amps, at 3 phase, its 3 legs at 3 amps. 

End of the day...your power meter will spin the same regardless of running equip at 120 or 240 or 3 phase for that mater.

The equipment will run a little more efficient, but negligible in regards to your power bill. The savings is gained when setting up the electrical system really only if you are going big. By this I mean it is cheaper to buy the wire needed to run big amperage load equipment then if you set it up for 120v only.


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## Hushpuppy (Aug 14, 2016)

Very good point Hal. Glad to see you still coming around here with us dude.


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## Gooch (Aug 14, 2016)

yes thank you for the info, my particular circumstance using the endomaxx 315 meant that i needed 240 and since i have 3 other ballasts i figured it would be better to run them all on 240, using 1 controller for four lights. and looking on the ballast says 240 3amps not 3 amps per leg of your 120 so i figured hopefully i will save on power also(the meters measure amps not power), maybe the ballast need higher voltage and not really high amperage the watts(Power) are still the same, maybe getting 120v up to the voltage it needs to be, requires more current at 120, again all **** that ran through my mind as i was considering the change over. which was going to happen one way or the other


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 15, 2016)

Amps times volts equals watts.  When you use 240v instead of 120v, you are using 1/2 the amps, but twice the volts, so power consumption is basically the same.  The same ballast that uses 3 amps at 240v will use 6 amps when running at 120v.  So for comparision sakes (actual wattages will vary a bit) 3*240=6*120. meaning that power consumption will be about the same regardless of whether are using 240V or 120V.


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## Gooch (Aug 15, 2016)

That is correct THG but the meter on the side of my house does not measure power usage it measures amperage used.


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## sopappy (Aug 15, 2016)

Gooch said:


> That is correct THG but the meter on the side of my house does not measure power usage it measures amperage used.



nope, that would be an ammeter
the power company sells power, which is measured in watts
Power equals the current times the voltage. P=I*E
110 W = 1.0A * 110V
110 W = 0.5A * 220V


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## WeedHopper (Aug 15, 2016)

All i know is they both will shock the crap outta yas. Ouch


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## Gooch (Aug 16, 2016)

Ahhh good looking sopappy i presumed because the breaker box is setup in amps that is how they measured, a quick look at the bill its kwhours


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## sopappy (Aug 16, 2016)

Gooch said:


> Ahhh good looking sopappy i presumed because the breaker box is setup in amps that is how they measured, a quick look at the bill its kwhours



I actually did not fully understand it myself until I read NorCalHal's post.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 16, 2016)

Gooch said:


> That is correct THG but the meter on the side of my house does not measure power usage it measures amperage used.



No, power usage is measured in kilowatts.  And that is what you are charged for.
Amps x voltage equals watts.


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## sopappy (Aug 16, 2016)

NorCalHal said:


> You are correct in saying that it is basically 2 120v "hot legs" to make a 240v circuit, all ran back to a 2 pole breaker at the panel.
> 
> So, with that said, you are just dividing the amperage load between 2 hot legs instead of 1 when you run 240. That's why when you read the elec info on a ballast, it will say 9 amps at 120v, 4.5 at 240v. That doesn't mean that it only takes 4.5 amps to fire the bulb, it still takes 9 amps to fire it, but at 240, it is 4.5 amps with 2 legs totaling 9 amps to fire it up. Hope this makes sense. I'm pretty danked out.
> 
> ...



Excellent explanation, NorCalHal, that 3 phase stuff ALWAYS confused me but I'm laughing now, nicely done!


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## umbra (Aug 16, 2016)

NCH set up my room, and it is pumping out some dank.


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## WeedHopper (Aug 16, 2016)

You have a great Mentor my friend.


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## grass hopper (Aug 16, 2016)

they sure talked the 1000w double ended light up on weed radio show. made it sound like 2 grams per watt was typical.. they said keep lights 5 feet from plants which took me out in my house...  8 foot clgs..     ncl , are u using these lights and do u get that kind of poundage??? thanks!!


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## NorCalHal (Aug 16, 2016)

grass hopper said:


> they sure talked the 1000w double ended light up on weed radio show. made it sound like 2 grams per watt was typical.. they said keep lights 5 feet from plants which took me out in my house... 8 foot clgs.. ncl , are u using these lights and do u get that kind of poundage??? thanks!!


 

The short answer is...Yes and Yes. Best lights in the industry hands down imho.

We were just talking about the height of the Gavita's off the canopy today.
I am fortunate, I built my rooms with 12' ceilings. My Dual ended lights hang about 1 foot off the ceiling. I never move them at all. They stay put.

When I start a new click, I will bring the plants in and set them up on custom tables we fabricate. The tables are about 2.5' - 3' tall. The pots I use put them up another foot or so. 
So, when I put them under the Dual ended lights when I first put them in the room they are a solid  7 feet below the lights. Sounds crazy, but no stretch issues or weird growth at all...ever.

I used to raise and lower them and keep a solid 4 feet of distance from the plants all the way through the cycle. After talking to a Gavita tech guy, he convinced me to set them up at the highest distance and let the plants grow into them. A lot of tech explanations, but basically, at the younger stage of growth, the cannabis plant doesn't need such intense light. He stated that if I left the lights at the highest point, the canopy would naturally stay even.
He was absolutely correct. My gardens have never been more uniform.

It would be tough to run dual ended in a smaller ceiling space. I think that if you used air cooled and ran Indica dominant strains, you could pull off some dank in a lower ceilinged room, say 8'.

On that note...they do sell lower wattage dual ended lights, like 600w. Id bet that those would ROCK a smaller ceiling space. I know on hotter days, I dial back my dual ended lights to 800w from 1000w and see no difference in bud structure of weight. 

Something to think about.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 16, 2016)

sopappy said:


> Excellent explanation, NorCalHal, that 3 phase stuff ALWAYS confused me but I'm laughing now, nicely done!


 

Good deal bro! That's all 3 phase is...3 hot legs instead of 2 for 240 and 1 for 120. The trick for 3 phase is just balancing the load back at the main panel and not overloading 1 of the legs.
One thing I learned is in industrial areas with 3 phase power, when you run a 2 pole breaker the 2 legs do not give you 240v...it is actually 208v.
At a home, the 2 legs together do add up to an actual 240v.
At least this is the case for industrial in Cali...not sure on other states.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 16, 2016)

umbra said:


> NCH set up my room, and it is pumping out some dank.


 
Your KILLING it this run!


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## sopappy (Aug 17, 2016)

WeedHopper said:


> All i know is they both will shock the crap outta yas. Ouch



yup, you can get a pretty good lift from 110, 220 is even better
but RF will knock your socks off and leave a mark 
I test 9V batteries with my tongue


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## grass hopper (Aug 17, 2016)

WOW AND WOW!!! Thanks hal, i wanna try those soo bad. umbra and hal, u guys gotta post some pics at some point.    PLEASE....   We have been thinking on moving. Dear builder. We would like a small ranch, with a big basement with at least 12 foot ceilings. please..and a pond and lots of critters around..blue state would be nice. low taxes.


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## zigggy (Aug 20, 2016)

thanks for all your answers,,,,,gonna buy three new hortilux bulbs (600s) ,,taking things slow for right now ,,,have a lot going on ,,,my sons first year of school ,,,he's getting so big,,,,after life calms down will take another look at improvments ,,,ssbw


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## sopappy (Sep 4, 2016)

excellent choice, eating my heart out

moral of this thread is you need 12 foot ceilings to run HPS / MS bulbs.
I have 2 rooms, 7 ft ceiling so am stuck with my LEDs and T5s
I have 2 LEDs, 2 T5s (veg tubes) to cover 24 reg seeds to 12 flowered.

LEDs for flower, T5s for veg or
LEDS for veg, T5s (w reds) for flower or
one of each for both rooms?


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