# led vs. fluorescent



## skullcandy

got this in an email i got from supplyer

Too Much (Wrong) Information? For Sure! 

Every day we see tons of data being thrown around the internet on forums and blogs concerning the operational costs of LED and other grow lights.

Sadly, most of the numbers are either concocted or way off the mark; and it's tough to make an apples-to-apples comparison because of fundamentally different natures of two different lights.

So, we decided to dig deeper and settle this once and for all. Instead of churning numbers out of thin air, we're going to give you solid, hard data on operational costs of LED and fluorescent grow light.

LED vs. Fluorescent Grow Light 

The lights we're comparing are XML 350 (Running Wattage: 336 Watts) and Sun Blaze 48 (Running Wattage: 468 Watts).

But before we dive into the data set, we'd like to point out that many people mistake LUX values or wattage as benchmarks against which all grow lights are measured. In reality, neither wattage nor LUX value determine how potent a light is.  

The Number That Really Matters: PAR/Watt 

What truly determines the potency and efficiency of a light is PAR value (External link: Wikipedia). PAR measurement is useful for a number of reasons, the primary one being that it measures the band of light (400nm-700nm) where photosynthesis can occur. A secondary reason is that the light is measured uniformly. LUX readings are geared toward the way humans see light, so greens and yellows are given a higher weight than purples and blues. PAR readings measure nearly the whole visible light spectrum, 400nm-700nm, evenly.

Therefore, the only benchmark you should be comparing lights against is PAR/watt, which is quite simply a measurement of photosynthetically active radiation generated by a light source for every watt it consumes.

Now then, let's look at these numbers:



Bottom Line: The Diamond Series XML 350 LED light clearly blows its fluorescent counterpart out of the water by costing 6.2% less to run.

Imagine running 10 of these in your grow space and you can see this 6.2% adding up. And let's not forget that the cost of electricity increases every year like clockwork, so it doesn't really make sense to save on upfront costs when you'll be losing money on the backend.

If you grow commercially, this 6.2% savings in operational costs means higher profit margins and more money in your pocket.

But here's what you probably didn't know: The PAR/watt value for XML 350 is 17.23 while the PAR/watt value for T5 is 6.04. In other terms, XML 350 offers 185% more photosynthetically active radiation that plants actually use while costing 15% less than T5 fluorescent light. That is almost two times more PAR/watt!

Even if you compare LUX values, XML 350 generates 212% more light in the visible spectrum than T5 48 Sun Blaze. Talk about knocking it out of the park!

See the results below for actual spectrometer readings:



There it is, folks. You'd be hard pressed to find numbers more accurate. Let us know what you think by replying to this email and stay tuned for an awesome infographic next week.

Click here to read full specs for Diamond Series XML 350

Until next time,
I'm Kyle @ Advanced LED Lights


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## DrFever

Well most of the stuff you read  or google will say how much better LED is  more efficient, less heat   bla bla bla, owe i forgot   and cause of the spectrum,  better quality product. 
 quality comes from the strain and of course   degree of the grower  to  get it there.
 But  Bottom line its about  yield  and LED  just does not cut it yet   
Ask your self  one thing  when a person searches   on the tube  for:ED you get  just the 90 watt grows etc never a  par test or another  actual tests  given to actual good  growing lights 
 Anyways    you here all the crap about LED growers  saying it can compete with  HPS  but 99 percent of the time   its never   done   i say forget about LED  and look into plasma if your worried about heat   cause i  can guarantee you  Plasma     will Kick  LEDS  butt    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XnHglynTIdE[/ame]


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## Locked

I think PJ would be one person I would want to hear from on this topic. The dude has put in a lot of time and effort into LED's. He is the guy I would and will go to when it comes time for me to put my foot into the LED waters. jmo


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## DrFever

I am  sure PJ  will tell you   that  LED will  produce what  70 lumens   per watt where  plasma will do 140  lumens per watt 

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTGsM9pplUs[/ame]


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## skullcandy

you might be right but i have no current intrest in plasma i do like the LEDs thought i just started another plant under the led lights i got, and i can not complain with what i get out of them, and the artical is just a comparason done by the led market mostly pointing out there results in what the lights used up in electrical and put out in light from what i read the leds put out three times more light the the t5s and cost less the run not to mention the lights last for a few years opposed to a few months .


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## Locked

Dr....the OP is not interested in Plasma lights. Although interesting it's not relevant to his question.  LED's have come a long way and they will continue to improve. As with anything dealing with current technology, you tske a risk that after you buy the latest and greatest, the next best thing can show uo and even be cheaper..  My wife got her first Smart Phone right before the technology took off. She was stuck for 2 years with a piece of crap until her contract was up.


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## skullcandy

two years with a crappy phone i bet that sucked, no offence but i had been pissed if that had happened to me .


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## Locked

skullcandy said:


> two years with a crappy phone i bet that sucked, no offence but i had been pissed if that had happened to me .



I listened to my wife complain every day and night..lol.
I was more than happy to get her a Note 3 when her contract was up. 

And no offense taken.


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## skullcandy

well at least the technalogie is there now and it takes people like your wife who invest in things for them to become better . so i would sure think that now is the time to get a high teck phone they work alright with good providers like verizon, at&t ..at least IMO


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## DrFever

TBO LED have come a long way  and again better tech is always coming around the corner   is led  better then fluorescents ??   
well it all depends i guess  if your  tight wad and worried about  you electrical bill  of a measly few bucks growing with  either of these   types of  lights, then  save up for your LED  cause  they will  be more cost efficient  and most importantly for them tree huggers out there  environmentally  friendly   what a perfect sales pitch   environmentally friendly lol 
 does not size of room also make a difference ????
Fluorescents are still cheap compared to  LED  and will light up a room at a overall  lower cost  
 but for instance  the higher wattage you go and larger rooms you go  HID has 
 the advantage  against  single mid-wattage LED lamps purely based on light intensity, coverage and penetration from a hid  Leds just don't have the  same coverage and penetration 
  So now many people are being lured into LED's ....  and i wonder why ??? so they are comparing  240- 300 watt led to a 400 MH     so  what kind of yields are we really talking about ????? 4 - 6 oz ????? how much was initial  LED investment ??
  how fast will you smoke that  before next harvest is done... Or how much would you of you  made  if sold    after   expenses ??  food , misc  power bills.
 All i see  from growing with LED  is  low heat , low electrical bill,  but with that you get smaller then average yields  , airy buds 
 I used to grow non stop  summer thru winter   but again a person needs a break from this now and again  that is good medicine lol 
but  either way i  when i did   i would pull  3 grows  and harvest  18 pounds not including  20 oz  of hash from this as well   enough weed/.hash to smoke  for all year and some if i want or   unload  it  @ 2300 per  you do the math  with less then  1000  total power bill now   that is being efficient 
 Skull  its all cool what your doing  not bashing nothing  happy growing  doc


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## P Jammers

DrFever said:


> I am  sure PJ  will tell you   that  LED will  produce what  70 lumens   per watt where  plasma will do 140  lumens per watt
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lTGsM9pplUs


Nope, you won't hear me say a word on plasma's, as I have Zero experience with them and I don't speak on things I have no backed up facts about. 

I will say however that I out yield most 2 to 1 LED's vs HID lighting all day long and do watt for watt.

And for the record, lumens mean **** if the color/spectrum is not in tune. If lumens were truly the driving force, we'd all be using halogens.


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## P Jammers

DrFever said:


> But  Bottom line its about  yield  and LED  just does not cut it yet


Pick a strain any strain and I'll out yield you 2 to 1 in the same amount of time.

21 day veg only.

Wanna see some real facts, put up or shut up time.


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## Rosebud

What a concept.... not talking about a subject you know personally nothing about?????

WOW.... Thanks PJ.   Sarcasm intended.

Loving my LED's.


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## skullcandy

dr fever you cold be right about the hid lights not sure but the comparison here was about the cost of running the leds vs the cost of running the t5's and the amoutof plant useable light they put out i think the leds won . this one


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## DrFever

P Jammers said:


> Pick a strain any strain and I'll out yield you 2 to 1 in the same amount of time.
> 
> 21 day veg only.
> 
> Wanna see some real facts, put up or shut up time.



You are absolutely right    lumens  mean nothing  i been trying to tell people here all the time   but anyways  i am all about  YIELD  and for me i am sorry , Being efficient  going to be a long time before  LED can compete with  HID or even  plasma   out of curiosity  PJ  ???? 
how many LED's is needed  to  make  6.5  - 7.5 pounds   Cost wise ????   do you make this amount  consistently   i average 1180 dry grams per `1000 watts    Also  PJ   i realize  that LED  can grow  in vegetative state  Yet  most  growers i know  using  LED   add  HPS  in flower   why is that ????  could  it really be  cause  lack of penetration power ???   bottom line   from what i see on other forums  most led growers are averaging  .56 and up to 1.3 grams per watt  but again    from 60 grams dry to 600 grams  dry  know  where close  to 3500 dry grams lol       
And  to say you will beat me  2 -1     is looking for trouble there PJ    put up or shut up   ok  i will try to post   a plant  21 days veg   can you please  post one  as well from clone  ?????  LED  is great for Veg  so it should  be bigger  NO ??? 
 Skull  the lights you choose are definitely not the only factor that will affect your growing success and yields.  But with everything equal   more light equals more  bud  end of story   friends have pm'd me  about  why i chose to run  plasma  in between   my 1000's  and the truth is  LEP  lasts 3- 5 times longer then  HPS ,,, and with  LEP  sun like full spectrum   it is a smart  choice  over  adding more   HPS or led  as supplementary lighting    we will see  this fall  how it turns out     18,000 watts worth      Gavita, LEP, and MH 

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## DrFever

Rosebud said:


> What a concept.... not talking about a subject you know personally nothing about?????
> 
> WOW.... Thanks PJ.   Sarcasm intended.
> 
> Loving my LED's.


 Wrong  i do know and have read lots on led  there Rose ,,,,,
With LED's, you are only producing light in very narrow bands of spectrum. The idea is to make all the light on the plant useable. So LED's have 2-3 times the PAR output of HPS. This is where the efficiency comes in. The problem wiht most LED's are that they don't have the correct spectrum represented to grow efficently and most people simply don't understand what they need to do to make an LED grow successful..  they  buy a LED  and ejust go with what is there  ending up in upset   Rose  out of curisoty  what is your spread on your diodes 120 degree ????  from what my friends are telling me  if you want to go LED  you want to go Quad Band with a 6:1:1:1 ratio.
 they also told me  go with diodes that have a 90 degree spread instead of the traditional 120 degrees and use high power diodes. 
Remember that LED's produce NO UV-B  and no far red or infra red light. So if you are only using LED's your going to need to add suplimental lighting  for full spectrum to promote branching. LED's  don't typically come in a configuration with any light produced beyond 660nm. Far red (above 700nm) is what triggers shaded branches to grow out into the light. So if you want to grow bushes you will need to add other lighting  or you won't get branching and your internode spacing will be extremely tight. 
 and this is why so many add  cfl's , flourous, reptile lighting, and   HPS in with there LED's 

And as for comparing  LED to  HID  a friend  ran  a LED set up  equivalent to a 2000 watt hid  watts  and i will see if i can get him to join up  and post his grow ???? He will tell you  he produced some  really nice buds  but the yields didn;t come close  to matching  a 2000 watt hid grow  black star 480 watt  i should just buy this  and do a side by side  being i am  experienced  but lets look  at what really is needed   here Size: 15.75" x 8.375"

Coverage Area: 3' x 2' (6 Square Feet)

LED Chipset: 3W

Number of LED's: 80

Rated Hours: 40,000

Bands: 6 Band

Red: 630, 660nm

Blue: 425nm

Infrared: 730nm

Ultraviolet: 380nm

White: 12000k

Worldwide Voltage: 90v-240v

Modular Power Cord (Available in US, UK, EU, AU)

Warranty: 3 Year Limited
 and do a closet grow haha wondering if 2 of these  are comparable to  1000 hid


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## skullcandy

like the buds there dr fever i have not measured what amout of grams i get from my leds but i will be sure to do that at the end of my current grow i got one j-zone in dwc and will be using only 235 watts of LED light i will remember to measure it before i smoke it . 

I hope 

this is the one pictured here . 

I am not as an experienced of a grow as you or P jammers but will try anyway ...:vap_smiley: 

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## DrFever

Awesome skull   i hope you do well  my friend   bottom line  if we don't try  new things  we will never know


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## skullcandy

you and me both .I think with all the info i got from the mp and ED rothahials huh can't spell his name but i got one of his grow books and theres plenty of info in there , should get me buy okay :cool2:


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## P Jammers

DrFever said:


> Awesome skull   i hope you do well  my friend   bottom line  if we don't try  new things  we will never know


Funny you would post that considering you have never run a real LED and have no facts of your own except what "your buddies do". 

Waiting for that 21 day plant your gonna post, and if you think anyone with a clue is going to believe that SOG plant you posted is 21 days from root you are high.

Like I said I don't post on things I don't have a clue on. You should do the same.

2 to 1, and I'll use less than 60 watts to grow the entire plant. Pretty sure you'll be hard pressed to find a 60 watt HPS, but by all means get your ducks lined up and LMK when you're ready.

Maybe your buddies can learn something as well...

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## DrFever

pj   the first pic is day 21  under 1000 watts  but if you like here is  another under  Gavita  owe and a bud   just for you   and another but day 36   hordilux  super blue  MH/HPS  in one bulb 3rd picture is  21 days in this post as well ,
 I forgot  i also run  C02 might be a difference  sorry i don't grow  60 watts  but hey  if you got the power  to challenge me  with 1000 watts  or more  please let me know   again  this fall i be running  close to 20,000 watts  if your in that league  would be even better  last picture is  2000 watts  70 plants 

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## orangesunshine

imo---you be stinking up skullcandys led thread---with all due respect i checked in to see skullcandys led v florescents not your hps dank in totes dr.


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## DrFever

tru dat orange  sorry skull  you get  Ed Ross  book  your on your way  Even Ed mentions  LED's should be used as supplementary lighting  but again  what would he know right ???

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P31l6tImo0A[/ame]


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## Grower13

Leds have come along way in the last 6 years.........


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## Rosebud

Pj, some people on the internet post pic's as their own and they are not really theirs.


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## Grower13

Rosebud said:


> Pj, some people on the internet post pic's as their own and they are not really theirs.


 

One of those people has made post on this thread.


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## Rosebud

Yes they have and many others.... guy holding a cola in front of his face ring a bell?


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## DrFever

your claiming that i am posting pics that dont belong to me ???? every pic in this  thread i posted is my grow


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## NorCalHal

IMHO.... lights are only 1 small part of the equation. SO many different factors are involved. There is no way a "my show vs your show" contest can be played out, 'specially on the 'net. Shoot man, it can't be played out hardly with folks livin' next to each other.

BTW..I'm high as heck and lovin' the apostrophe's haha.

bottom line, folks grow for many different reasons. Growing scenarios will greatly differ for each one. IE, personal use, an extra few lb's, or full scale production. 

I personally know ALOT of growers, from the closet cat to the warehouse grower. Given the same pheno clone, you will always get different results. Most of the guys use basically the same type of light set ups, HID. So, you would think that the herb would be close to the same, and it never is. It never fails too, each person will claim there's is the best. Sigh. Gotta love pride.

It is too easy to slam someone else's method, I too have been guilty of that. But I have learned to respect what each person brings to the table, some bring a lot, some barley anything. You may learn what to do, as well as what not to do. 

Both PJ and Fever have mad skillz that should be shared and respected. Each of you grow very different, and that is cool. The folks that are learning from you two, choose you because your specific style best suited their "growing application", be it space, money, heat issues.ext. So, no need to challenge, as it could never be proven.

STRAIN. imho..the most important factor in achieving high yields. Period. Some strains got it, some don't. Shoot man, pheno's within the same strain make a huge difference.
That is why I trip on yield bragging, too many factors.

Sorry for the ramble, been a while since I have been on MP.


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## skullcandy

DrFever said:


> tru dat orange  sorry skull  you get  Ed Ross  book  your on your way  Even Ed mentions  LED's should be used as supplementary lighting  but again  what would he know right ???
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P31l6tImo0A



thats cool Dr fever we all here to chat anyway


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## skullcandy

NorCalHal said:


> IMHO....
> 
> 
> STRAIN. imho..the most important factor in achieving high yields. Period. Some strains got it, some don't. Shoot man, pheno's within the same strain make a huge difference.
> That is why I trip on yield bragging, too many factors.
> 
> .



i wonder if using nutes to get bigger yields affects the quilty of the bud as in more bud with weaker high vs. less bud with stronger high . any opinion on that .


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## The Hemp Goddess

skullcandy said:


> i wonder if using nutes to get bigger yields affects the quilty of the bud as in more bud with weaker high vs. less bud with stronger high . any opinion on that .


 
 I have never thought of nutes as something you use to "get bigger yields".  I feed my plants because every living thing need nourishment of some kind.  Nutrients are necessary just for survival.     

 I think what maybe you are asking is if each plant is only capable of producing x amount of THC regardless of its size, so that larger plants would have a lower THC content?  I can say that in my experience the answer is no.  I have had little 1 oz Satori plants and large 4.5 oz ones--they all produce about the same high, i.e. the bud grown on the 4.5 oz plant is not weaker than that grown on the 1 oz plant.  

 If this is not what you mean, could you please clarify it a little?


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## skullcandy

THG that was a perfect answer to what i was thinking . i guess i should have written it in a question instead of typeing my thoughts . thanks THG


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## Locked

Looks like someone got cold busted.  Nice job multi.


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## P Jammers

Hamster Lewis said:


> Looks like someone got cold busted.  Nice job multi.


And using four year old data tah boot from a guy on RIP.

Buwhahaha
:**:


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## 7greeneyes

Let's keep this civil....

I love healthy non-negative competetion tho so.....LET'S GET READY TO RRRRRRRRUUUUUUUUMMMMMMBBBBBBLLLLEEEEEE!

LOL...Love the pics PJ and Dr. Fever.


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## P Jammers

7greeneyes said:


> LOL...Love the pics PJ and Dr. Fever.



Boysenberry Walker, a new creation of mine at 5 weeks in. 58 watts of LED power on this one.

Don't try this at home. :guitar:

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## Rosebud

Beautiful...Looks like you sprinkled something on that...Wonderful shot.. Boysenberry is very good looking.


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## skullcandy

Rosebud said:


> Beautiful...Looks like you sprinkled something on that...Wonderful shot.. Boysenberry is very good looking.



rosebud I think p jammers sprinkled trichones on those leafs...
dam how did he do that .


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## 7greeneyes

love that frost on  you Berry walker cross there PJ :aok:


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## skullcandy

well i like the fact that the studies show led it more light per watt but i still want a set of badboys t-5's the four footers with 6-8 bulbs  maybe after the leds i got are used four a couple years being they last so long.


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## Dman1234

the dr is so funny, once he posted a pic of all the money he makes as a commercial grower, it took me 30 seconds to find his pic online, it was 205 million a pic the police took during a bust, so so funny. 

check it out post 29 and 31 
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=852334#post852334


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## lyfespan

Dman1234 said:


> the dr is so funny, once he posted a pic of all the money he makes as a commercial grower, it took me 30 seconds to find his pic online, it was 205 million a pic the police took during a bust, so so funny.
> 
> check it out post 29 and 31
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=852334#post852334



Omg, that is all.


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## skullcandy

really i had no idea i thought that was him not fearing the police .


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## DrFever

Dman1234 said:


> the dr is so funny, once he posted a pic of all the money he makes as a commercial grower, it took me 30 seconds to find his pic online, it was 205 million a pic the police took during a bust, so so funny.
> 
> check it out post 29 and 31
> http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=852334#post852334



 OMG FFS  sakes there  its was a joke sometimes  we all post a picture  of  something     trying to be funny   or what ever 
  like i would post  or incriminate my self  with a picture like that  why not  video  a actual   drug deal   idiot ?? 
  Oh please  find the post  where i said i made all this  money myself  oh please do  Dman


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## skullcandy

DrFever said:


> OMG FFS  sakes there  its was a joke sometimes  we all post a picture  of  something     trying to be funny   or what ever
> like i would post  or incriminate my self  with a picture like that  why not  video  a actual   drug deal   idiot ??
> Oh please  find the post  where i said i made all this  money myself  oh please do  Dman



money what money


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