# Feminized Seeds: Kill or share the buzz



## Caretaker (May 28, 2009)

There are to many random threads talking about feminized seeds. To much shotty mixed information that should be pieced together. I want to see how many people have bought feminized seeds and had it herm on you for a reason that wasnt your fault. If you bought feminized seeds and had a good experiance post that to. Mention the breeder and the strain and we might be able to get down to who has the good seeds and who has the ones that carry hermy traits. If done right this should either ultimatly tell us if they are garbage or if they are worth the cash. Lets vote and let the story be told.


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## dirtysox (May 28, 2009)

nice point, green house seeds 8 germed turned all female (cheese)


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## Caretaker (May 28, 2009)

It seems someone knew what they were doing when they came up with the idea of feminizing seeds. But as always there is someone wanting to do it the cheapest way and make the most money. I bet there is a way to do this that will result in %100 perfect ladys. But then there are breeders most likley taking short cuts. I garuntee if anyone had these seeds herm on them if you post it there will be an abundance of the same breeder and strain.


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## mrkingford (May 28, 2009)

I'm currently germinating 1 G-13 "quicksilver" auto-flowering feminized seed that i got free from Attitude with my order.
I'll let you know how it turns out in a few weeks, as i think it only needs 2-3 weeks to show sex.


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## Growdude (May 28, 2009)

I only bought Fems once when I first joined, Dutch passion WW.

bought 10 seeds and still have 8 left, kept a mother all this time and still have been herm. free.


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## Caretaker (May 28, 2009)

Thats what I am talking about. With all this hermy info about fem seeds some people might be thinking twice about something they really want for no reason. We just need to let them know where to get it and where not to get it. Also I was hoping to add another option to the pole. One for people that dont have or wont buy the seeds. If a mod could do that because I dont think I can.


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## Caretaker (May 29, 2009)

No one has nothing to put in here about there story with fem seeds? I have noticed alot of people telling someone not to get them because they herm but it seems like they are just saying what they heard and dont have anything to back it up. If they hermed as bad as people claim on this site the seed companys would not sell them, Especially for more than regular seeds.


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## TURKEYNECK (May 29, 2009)

Caretaker said:
			
		

> No one has nothing to put in here about there story with fem seeds? I have noticed alot of people telling someone not to get them because they herm but it seems like they are just saying what they heard and dont have anything to back it up. .


 
Well, fem'd seeds come from hermie genetics, so that is likely the source of alot of the negative reputation that fem'd seeds _seem_ to have,

but I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who sware they hermie either bought from crappy breeders or stressed the plants somehow.

Ive grown g-13 labs femm'd and Greenhouse Seeds Femm'd with 100% female


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## mrkingford (May 29, 2009)

As i stated, i have 4 poison dwarf auto seeds in water now. They ALL have sprouted.
I recieved 1 free quicksilver auto FEMINIZED seed ( the others were regular
) and its in a seperate cup in water placed excatly the same time as the other 4. It has not sprouted yet. I'm not to worried, it looks white around the crack and i think she's just a little shy. I'll try talking to her later when i take others to plant. My journal will start in a couple hours on these.


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## mrkingford (May 29, 2009)

P.S.    They are G-13 from attitude.


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## Yoga (May 29, 2009)

I have had no problems with hermies.  My first grow was fem LR#2.  I messed that stuff up.  I had no idea what lowryders really were.  I had someone trying to tell me to "trim" my plants every week.  I had light leaks.  It was crazy.  Great smoke, NOT a great yield.  BUT no hermies.  I have four going now (lost one along the way) and we are about 6 weeks in, no sign of hermies.  But, I take a lot better care of my girls now.


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## Caretaker (May 29, 2009)

This is what I am talking about. Every thread I have read on here about fem seeds has had people talking about how they herm and there not worth it because of that. It really made me not want them. I am now thinking more highly of them. I noticed a few companys give them away as a freebie so I wont be so discouraged its a fem seed if I make an order.


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## bombbudpuffa (May 29, 2009)

> I'd be willing to bet that most of the people who sware they hermie either bought from crappy breeders or stressed the plants somehow.


I had my first hermies from fems recently. Wasn't my usual fem breeder and only those hermed. I'm not gonna sling poo at them but I won't be growing anymore of their fems either. Imo, if you buy from a breeder who makes them correctly you will never see a herm. If you want good quality fems try SweetSeeds or OG Raskals' genetics. Never had a herm from any of their fems.


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## Tater (May 30, 2009)

My femmed trainwreck from BCSeeds.com hermied on me, they were free beans and I guess you get what you pay for lol.  I should remember to update my seedbank review.


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## mrkingford (May 30, 2009)

So i'm crusing attitudes website and come across this.


Dinafem
Specializing with feminized, Dinafem Spanish marijuana seeds

There was a pic but it did not copy/paste.

My point is this compnay only does feminized seeds as it implies in it's NAME.
So, if the whole company is still in business and built around fem's, then it seems to me they know they are doing and have sucess at it.
I think fems get a bad name because people are'nt used to them yet, like a new product on the market sometimes takes time to be accepted.


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## HippyInEngland (May 30, 2009)

mrkingford said:
			
		

> My point is this company only does feminized seeds as it implies in it's NAME.
> So, if the whole company is still in business and built around fem's, then it seems to me they know they are doing and have sucess at it.
> *I think fems get a bad name because people are'nt used to them yet*, *like a new product on the market sometimes takes time to be accepted*.


 
I have been around a long time and saw the initial marketing of Auto plants, they got the same bad press as Fems are getting, the Auto's have now proven thier worth and are here to stay, Fem seeds will eventually prove the same.

I have never grown a Fem seed, but have a freebie G13 Pure Gold from Attitude, it will be grown this year, it will be interesting to pollinate it to see what traits are passed on in the new seeds.

You cant get away from the fact that if you have a small space to grow in and you know ALL your plants will be female, it gives you a huge advantage knowing you will have no males to cull.

I can see Fem seeds overtaking normal 'pot luck' seeds and the 'pot luck' seeds will come down in price.

Which will be advantageous to everyone.

eace:


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## NorCalHal (May 30, 2009)

My little story about my Fem experience

Mind you this was about 7 years ago, when the fems were first getting around, so maybe they have got better.

I bought Feminized Skywalker from DP. Popped them all, found my keepers and made moms.
The first click was just fine..a few seeds here and there, but not bad, no big deal. These were the original seedlings from the pack.

Now, the second click was all clones from the mothers I made from the Fem beans. Long sstory short, we had a pretty big show and blew up the clones, about 60 of them.

7 weeks into it, we tossed out all the plants and bud. It had seeded HORRIBLY, like I have never seen. Most all the plants had morphed and with the high cirulation we had, it just polinated the whole room.

I will never buy fems again myself.

I think if you were to do a single run, them fem beans would be ok, but not for me.


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## Caretaker (May 30, 2009)

Tha brings another good point to this thread. Because they do have hermy genes somewere in them it might not be a good idea to have a second generation of the same femmed plant. Clones of a femmed plant will most likley show the weaker genes. That being said if you cant clone it then thats an expensive habit to have to buy some femmed seeds for every grow. Can a femmed plant be %100 stable without showing herm signs even when cloned mutliple times?


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## Tater (May 30, 2009)

> Tha brings another good point to this thread. Because they do have hermy genes somewere in them it might not be a good idea to have a second generation of the same femmed plant.



All marijuana plants carry the genetic ability to hermy even if you can't induce it to hermy through light stress or other grow induced stress the trait can always be made to show through chemical stress.  This is a very important distiction when talking about feminized seed as it is the foundation for all quality feminized seed.  Taking a plant that will not hermy even under the most vicious of physical stresses and inducing the trait through chemical means.


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## Caretaker (Jun 4, 2009)

I guess maybe there was something accomplished in this thread. So far theres almost 3x more people not have a Femmed seed herm. But thats still not that great. I was looking for something to either show femmed seeds are great or to not even bother. They kinda alot of money to just buy and not know exactly about them.


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## 420benny (Jun 4, 2009)

I can't add my 2 cents until this fall. My first rodeo with fems includes Big Bang, White Widow, NLxSkunk. I had a femmed Arjans haze that turned black and shrivelled up right after popping. I blame myself for that (over watering). I am hesitant to go very far with femmed seeds. It makes me think of Monsanto playing god with genetics. It's probably just my imagination,but that's my fear of fems. Plus, I really want to save a couple moms from this, but the hermie issue with clones is troublesome. Nice thread. Thanks for posting it. I hope it stays going until more info shows up. If this is still around come harvest, I will post my results.


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## leafminer (Jun 14, 2009)

I made my own fems using male hermie parent. Almost all fem seed. Absolutely no hermies at all. IMO you can have confidence if the seed is produced using this method.


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## bombbudpuffa (Jun 15, 2009)

Even though i've had a couple herm I wouldn't discourage anyone from buying fems. Notice that most people that say "don't grow 'em!" have never grown them. The only mother I have now thats going to stay in my room indefinitely is a fem. She's shot out only a couple nanners under light leaks that totally hermed some of my reg plants.

Imo, it's all about procedures that they went through to make the fems. The spanish companies seem to have the best procedures for making fems because those are the most stable i've grown.


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## nvthis (Jul 7, 2009)

I'll throw in my two cents here... Although femming seeds does take advantage of cannabis' ability to hermie, I think it would foolish to assume all following generations will do the same on their own. Some plants exhibit the willingness to hermie with seeminglt no environmental triggers, while others can stand various severe abuses before popping a nanner. If the femmed seed comes from such a mother then the average Joe should be Hermie free. _Should_ be. There are many variables, specifically genetic, that may sway this to one side of the fence or the other. 

I think the more viable question here is "why feminized?" Feminized seed is marketed to growers who, for one reason or another, don't wish to be bothered by the possibility of male genetics. But how big is that market really??? And, on top of it all, when did that ever mean that seed companies should only offer various genetics availible as fem only?? Personally I feel this pratice is questionable. I think some seed companies (some well known) have 'hooked' into this concept and are driven to corner the market on certain genetics, so to speak. It is as close as a seed company can come to control their monopoly of certain genetics as, say, the sole holder of a particular pheno clone. Not to mention taking the ability from a knowledgeable grower to produce seeds of his/her own for later use. I have written a good deal of the larger name companies about this exact question. Some have said their entire line is due for feminization (i.e. SOMA, Green House Seeds "


Dear XXXXX,,

We still have a certain amount of regular seeds in stock. But when they are finished we won&#8217;t make any more. From then on we will only sell feminized seeds. 

Best regards,

GHSC

-----Original Message-----
*From:* Green House
*Sent**:* zaterdag 11 oktober 2008 22:10
*To:* 
[B][B]Subject:[/B][/B] Contact us[/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT]). 


Stupid. Others have said, directly, no way in hell they will ever drop their standard line (i.e. Ceres Seeds,


[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial]Hai XXXXX,

thanks so much for the kind words!

Ceres Seeds has two lines; Ceres Seeds&#8217; original varieties, not available feminized.
and the Coffeeshop Classics, which are available feminized.

There are no plans to change this.

Regards,

Louis
CS[/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=2][COLOR=navy][COLOR=navy][FONT=Arial][/FONT][/COLOR][/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT] 
[CENTER][CENTER][FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3][/SIZE][/FONT][/CENTER][/CENTER]
[B][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=2][FONT=Tahoma][B]Van:[/B][/FONT][/SIZE][/FONT][/B][FONT=Tahoma][SIZE=2][FONT=Tahoma] XXXXX [mailto:[email protected]] 
[B][B]Verzonden:[/B][/B] donderdag 16 oktober 2008 9:19
[B][B]Aan:[/B][/B] [email][email protected]
*Onderwerp:* seeds. 

Paradise Seeds...

Hello XXXXX,
Thank you for your compliments. No, the regular seeds will also stay be available.

Kind regards,
Marjan.








Paradise Seeds
Postbox 377
1000 AJ Amsterdam
Holland 
Tel: +31 20 6795 422
Fax: +31 33 495 2104
XXX.paradise-seeds.com



​*Van:* XXXXX[mailto:[email protected]] 
*Verzonden:* donderdag 16 oktober 2008 9:24
*Aan:* [email protected]
*Onderwerp:* seeds

These are seed companies I would prefer doing business with. 

I think there will be a wake up call and the feminized movement will meet it's ceiling and will become just another oddity. I could not see a sustained effort to harbor and hoard any genetics without an eventual stoner uprising. Just go on a board sometime and brag about a super strain that you have aquired and your intentions to keep it from the general public and see what folks will have to say about you


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## GMT (Jul 7, 2009)

Hmmm feminized seeds the jury is still out on that one for me.

Did a small grow of white lable seeds white diesel a few months ago under pretty good conditions ( no leaks nute disorders ect ect ) all went well until the last 2 weeks.

On the 2 plants there were a handfull of pollen sacks tho i doubt the pollen was viable but that was the end of those plants for sure.
Needless to say i wont be growing them again, the yeild was not great but the end product was some very nice weed after a good cure.

Currently i have 8 dutch passion hollands hope fem'd plants outside ( 2 mom's + 6 clones) full of female preflowers but i do expect them to herm at some stage,have to wait till october to find out.

I'll try anything once but it's doubtfull i'll ever go near fem'd seeds again as i like to play about crossing strains and the feminized pollen is not worth the risk imo.


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## ms4ms (Jul 7, 2009)

Greetings, my take on this is simple. I buy femmed seeds knowing they can hermi. i have learned to take real good "exta" care when I do a femmed seed. I havn't had any hermi on me..

Hey GMT< the dog in your avitar looks baked!! rofl


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## bombbudpuffa (Jul 9, 2009)

I've been having bad storms and power outages lately. My lights oming on and off have hermied a lot of my plants. All of them almost but my OG Raskal fems are hanging in there.

1.White Fire(The WhitexOG Kush[Fire/Raskal cut])
2.White Bubba pheno 1(The WhitexBubba Kush[pre 98 cut])
3.White Bubba pheno 2
4.Fire Ghani(OG KushxAfghan Kush)

Not a single nanner or ball on any of these girls and they are so frosty. I'll never stop growing fems.


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## nvthis (Jul 9, 2009)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> I've been having bad storms and power outages lately. My lights oming on and off have hermied a lot of my plants. All of them almost but my OG Raskal fems are hanging in there.
> 
> 1.White Fire(The WhitexOG Kush[Fire/Raskal cut])
> 2.White Bubba pheno 1(The WhitexBubba Kush[pre 98 cut])
> ...


 
Yo, Bomber man, NICE bro! Elite Genetics?


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## astrobud (Jul 9, 2009)

ive done a church(barneys farm) and super skunk and northern lights(g-13) with no problems, just takes a little more tlc


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## bombbudpuffa (Jul 9, 2009)

> Elite Genetics?


OG Raskal genetics.


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## nvthis (Jul 10, 2009)

Ah, well that's a pretty pennies worth ya got there


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## MiracleDro (Jul 10, 2009)

Greenhouse seeds white shark fem pretty much all were fine and one hermied.. all under same conditions. That hermie ruined my crop though


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## teerts (Jul 10, 2009)

I have grown these seeds only once (Sensi Seeds Big Bud); three seeds in soil, indoor. They turned out in three very nice girls.
No particular cares, only the usual things we all do


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## GMT (Jul 10, 2009)

Well i have another entey into the thread due to my own stupidity.

Bought and germed 3 afghan kush ryder seeds from world of seeds this week and never noticed the tiny little feminised sticker on the back of the pack god dammit.

Autoflowering and feminized these seedlings are going to have to be pampered me thinks to stop them turning.


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## Locked (Jul 11, 2009)

I grew 5 fem Buddha White Dwarfs and all were fine...my current grow I got my seeds from dope-seeds.com and all the fem seeds were good except for the Auto BlueKush from Autofem...out of 3 beans 2 were duds and the 3rd grew balls.... Overall I like fem seeds...helps when space is an issue and you want a certain number of females....it wld be hard for me to grow 20 autos and hope 10 are female...


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## Six (Aug 14, 2009)

Just germed 6 fem's...white widow, white rhino, great white shark, trainwreck, church, and hawaiin snow....will subscribe and give ya the results, although it will be awhile...


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## Hick (Aug 14, 2009)

> The reason I will be forcing feminized seed production is so I can grow outdoors. I won't have to worry about going out and pulling the males.
> 
> If just a few of the feminized plants herm on me it will still be better than one or two male plants!!! Most of the time a herm will produce a small amount of pollen compared to a genetic male. All the seeds produced will be feminized anyways!!! So that just gives me more for next cycle.


:hitchair: :hitchair: :hitchair: :doh: ... hermies procreate hermies.. NOT female plants...
  the femminization process is NOT simply allowing hermie flowers to pollinate more hermie genetics. Allowing hermie plants to produce outdoors is not only detrimental to "your" plants, but to any other grower within miles. NOT cool.... IMO.. and quite _irresponsible_....
Further procreation of plants from them, will only further ingrain the non-desirable hermaphrodite characteristic into the gene pool.
For "decades" (if not centuries) the well informed, "good", conscientious _"breeders"_ that have produced the ultra potent strains that we are priviledged to be growing and smoking today, worked diligently to breed the hermaphrodite tendency _out_ of the gene pool. 
Why?... because they knew that it was detrimental to the quality of the final product.


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## 420grower (Aug 15, 2009)

well I guess its time for the Dr. to step in,first off folks fem seed do not herm,it does have the ability to throw bananas,these so called bananas are not male flowers,I will say that again,bananas are not male flowers,not sure who or where that info came from but the fact is we breeders have caused these strange problems,I have found if you really sit down and study your grow you will find that somewhere along the line you have caused some kind of stress to your plant,that stress is what can cause these bananas and does most often,I had a grower call me yesterday to tell me she has bananas all over a plant that for the last 6 weeks(12/12)has been a text book grow,anyone wonder what caused it?She swore nothing had changed,then remembered that early this week we had power go off for 2-3 hrs,did that stress change the sex of this plant?NO!But it did make that girl think she was finished and this plants norm is to create seed and drop it for next season,so they send out these bananas,but will she seed,probably not,herms have both natural flowers on them,not bananas,I know there will be lots of disagreement on this subject,but the Dr. has spoken,nuff said,haha,lol just view on this subject,one more thing,I never saw bananas on any plant during almost 30 years outside,I believe you old salts like me will agree


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## Hick (Aug 15, 2009)

.."Doctor"???... "breeder?"...ahhhh!.. doctor of "Obamacare"?...:rofl:...
  What have "you" bred?.. a few hybrid crosses does 'not' a breeder make..IMO
"Seedmaker"... comes to mind unless you are dj, shanti, or steve incognito 
AS a breeder, you should know that 'nanners are common term for the _'staminate'_ flowers thrown by _intersexual_(hermie) plants. Not "all" staminate flowers produce viable pollen, but those that do, can and will pollinate your plants. Further, more deeply ingraining the un-desirable chacteristic/trait into those plants genetics.
I stand by my opinion.."_Hermies procreate hermies"_... 
From 'my' perspective..ANY plant expressing both pistilate and staminate flowers IS a hermie. The 'degree' of stress it takes to induce the staminate flower production, is only a reflection of the genes dominance/co-dominance ..IMO.


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## Hick (Aug 15, 2009)

I have a kush that will not hermie under stress.. a "true" female IMO and as near a perfect indica specimen as I've ever seen.
  Is it 100%, pure indica..:confused2:.. 


> You may stand by breeders such as the ones named above. But, I stand by scientists that create reproducible experiments that can be built upon.


....   they are probably experimenting with strains those breeders produced


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## OGKushman (Aug 16, 2009)

just ordered 10 fems...og....hindu


let u know soon


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## 420grower (Aug 16, 2009)

well that sure started some comments,I have a phd in biology,I have been breeding this plant since the mid 70",back when most of you weren't thought off,haha,I know for a fact that the northern lights variety began in a science lab at Ohio U,of course someone in cali seems to have taken all the credit,the term banana came about because this odd item looks like a small banana,I have studied this strange item for a few years now,even under the microscope it is tough to determine exactly what there are,no pollen is found,but know pistil forms in them either,so even with an advanced degree and years of growing most if not all growers have no answer for what they are and why they are formed,this is an annual plant that us growers have tried to and do keep them like a house plant,cloning this same over and over again,science still does not know why this plant can evolve so quickly,I know this still doesn't answer the question but thats all I got,haha,as for you Hick,I have killed more girls in my time then you will grow in a lifetime,I am on 5 medical boards and know most of the best medical growers out there,I am the veterans advocate for medical mj at a federal level,I could go on,but anyone calling themselves a hick already tells me much about you,I came on this site as a request from a good friend who like me is a top breeder in his country,so I guess the Doc is no longer needed,hell you all got Hick,he seems to know it all,later all


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## Hick (Aug 16, 2009)

I asked for creditials.. I guess I got 'em ehh?... "if" it's all true   and I really have no reason to believe it's not. But that's the nice thing about this medium, any one can pretend to be anything, I pretend to be a hick..
 BUT... if you're telling me, that nanners are'nt staminate flowers?.. and that they can't pollinate your fems?.. I do beg to differ. I've experienced it,  seen it with my own eyes. And I'm pretty sure that there are others on here that have had their crop ruined by them.
  I've no phd, but I have been growing and pllaying w/ the plant for over 25 years.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 16, 2009)

420grower said:
			
		

> ,I have been breeding this plant since the mid 70",back when most of you weren't thought off,haha,


 
Dude. getting a little crazy.





			
				420grower said:
			
		

> and know most of the best medical growers out there


 
What an arrogant, untrue statement. You know nothing of what you speak dude. And the statement that u killed more girls then he grew just shows you are truly clueless. you know nothing of anyone on this board bro. Nothing. 
I've probably grown more herb this year then u have ever.

See, don't that make me look like a butthead?

If you ware a real Dr. of Biology, then speak like one, not a pissed off kid who grew weed in the basement and made a few seeds bro. Convince us.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 16, 2009)

Oh ya, what strains have you been responsible for? You did state that you are a TOP breeder.
Don't give me the "G-13" crap either.


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## OGKushman (Aug 16, 2009)

420grower said:
			
		

> well that sure started some comments,I have a phd in biology,I have been breeding this plant since the mid 70",back when most of you weren't thought off,haha,I know for a fact that the northern lights variety began in a science lab at Ohio U,of course someone in cali seems to have taken all the credit,the term banana came about because this odd item looks like a small banana,I have studied this strange item for a few years now,even under the microscope it is tough to determine exactly what there are,no pollen is found,but know pistil forms in them either,so even with an advanced degree and years of growing most if not all growers have no answer for what they are and why they are formed,this is an annual plant that us growers have tried to and do keep them like a house plant,cloning this same over and over again,science still does not know why this plant can evolve so quickly,I know this still doesn't answer the question but thats all I got,haha,as for you Hick,I have killed more girls in my time then you will grow in a lifetime,I am on 5 medical boards and know most of the best medical growers out there,I am the veterans advocate for medical mj at a federal level,I could go on,but anyone calling themselves a hick already tells me much about you,I came on this site as a request from a good friend who like me is a top breeder in his country,so I guess the Doc is no longer needed,hell you all got Hick,he seems to know it all,later all


     I am currently in my senior year at Cal State for my B.S. in Geology with emphasis on groundwater flow. 

  I found over 54 mistakes in what you just typed. You do know there is a space bar and a period on your keyboard?
  I am no where near a PhD when it comes education and credentials. I seem to disbelieve you based solely on your grammar, punctuation, and lack of conviction in your writing. This is enough for an educated person to dismiss _any _validity in this above post. Certainly a person with a doctorate earned from an accredited school has had to pass numerous American English courses before graduation. So, either your B-S'n us or you have been studying something other then Cannabis at OSU. :aok:  I seem to have seen the same experiences as hick stated.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 16, 2009)

You convinced me OG, he is full of it.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 16, 2009)

I grow almost (99%) exclusive from clone stock. Mostly from my own mothers. Sometimes, I do buy from the dispensaries, only to make a mother myself if I like it.
With that said, I have been doing this ,from clone, alomost 12 years str8. Before it was from seed.

Aside from the experience with FLO feminised beans from DP, I have never has a 'morph. Both from Indica and Sativa's and mixes.
A few strains I can name for you, but I don't really know the makeup, as I am a spoiled bastid and get lucky with bomb cuts.
Trainwreck (Sativa 4sure)
NYCD(Sativa from hell 4sure)
Jack Herer, aka J1 (Sativa dominant)
SpiceyJack (J1 x Shinta spice)
Special K (Old skool BOMB herb)
White Widow (Indi)
Purple Erkle (Indi)
GDP (Indi)
NL5xHaze (?)
BubbaKush(indy)

A ton of others, but those I can remember running each for at least a year or more. No issues with 'morphs.


The only time, like I said, was with the damn Fem beans from DP. Bad luck maybe, but it sure scared me away from fem beans.

So, hopefully this can be of help to the folks that understand it more then I, and this is just my personal experience. I know quite a few other growers, and I have not heard them complain about 'morphs since I poisened them all with the Flo back i nthe day, lol.

So, from where I sit, if I was to do a single grow, I would not trip and order Fem beans. But, if I wanted to make a Mother plant and rock and roll, I would NOT use a Fem bean.

But I read what Growdude said, and I trust his experience, and he has had no issues. But WW is a more stable and long running strain.

Depending on your situation is what will determine your need for Fem beans, imo. You want to shoot the dice once, you'll be all good, but if you want to play craps all night, chances are, you will crap out.


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## greenfriend (Aug 18, 2009)

ive never grown fem seeds, and i probably never will.  a 5 pack of fem seeds costs the same as a 10 pack of regular seeds.  if you get 5 females from the regular seeds, then your're simply paying twice as much for the same thing if you buy fem'd seeds.

much easier to go through a bunch of regular seeds, find a bomb pheno to be the mom and clone it for a couple years as Hal has done.  and hal, if you ever come across that spicy jack again lemme know, i bought a sack from Blue Sky a couple days ago, and it was flavorlicious - a nice departure from all these fruity indicas


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## SkunkPatronus (Aug 20, 2009)

Most people know the pros and cons of the monitary outlay and hermie trait issues, my deal with only female seeds is that if males aren't sold anymore, they will have our balls in a vise.

If i can't find male seeds, i.e. regular seeds that produce good looking male plants, i will be utterly dependant on the breeders/sellers of seeds for all of my seeds.  Forever.

In America it is illegal to courner the market on purchases, it's called a monopoly.  If you reduce the market to only females, which is their goal, they will be the only people you can get seeds from... not good.

If you want for the limited number of company's out there to be the ONLY way you can grow your pot, buy the female seeds, if not, buy the regular ones.


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## greenfriend (Aug 21, 2009)

SkunkPatronus said:
			
		

> If i can't find male seeds, i.e. regular seeds that produce good looking male plants, i will be utterly dependant on the breeders/sellers of seeds for all of my seeds. Forever.
> 
> If you want for the limited number of company's out there to be the ONLY way you can grow your pot, buy the female seeds, if not, buy the regular ones.


 
first off, while its nice to make your own hybrid, imo stabilizing and backcrossing it to make it a good clone only strain is waaaay too much trouble for most people, except for good breeders who do it for a living.  for my purposes, male seeds are useless

and second, there are more really quality strains available from online seed vendors than i could grow in my lifetime.  why would you not want to buy seeds from breeders, they spend every single day making a huge selection of bomb strains for you to grow


and btw, the definition of a "monopoly": 

1) the market condition that exists when there is only one seller
2)exclusive control of a commodity or service in a particular market, or a control that makes possible the manipulation of prices

there are many seed vendors, and wide variation of price - no monopoly


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## Hick (Aug 21, 2009)

I'm with skunk on this. It is also believed by some breeders, that the recessive qualities in male plants, are connected with potency and quality in creating drug quality strains. 


> For "decades" (if not centuries) the well informed, "good", conscientious "breeders" that have produced the ultra potent strains that we are priviledged to be growing and smoking today, worked diligently to breed the hermaphrodite tendency out of the gene pool.
> Why?... because they knew that it was detrimental to the quality of the final product.





> first off, while its nice to make your own hybrid, imo stabilizing and backcrossing it to make it a good clone only strain is waaaay too much trouble for most people, except for good breeders who do it for a living. for my purposes, male seeds are useless


question GF?... Do you suppose 'any' of the _clone only_ strains are a stable ?? I have always been under the impression, that 'clone only' was "not" stable, thus available only from a specific 'Donor/mother' phenotype. Possibly even an F1 hybrid of exceptional quality.


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## Hick (Aug 21, 2009)

Mutt said:
			
		

> but on a side note...just becuase they say they are a breeder and have a shop doesn't mean they are (after seeing a shop try to pass off herm genes as self perpetuating OD grow i had enough) I have grown backyard breeds (by people that care and not after the dollar) that out performed and held more stable then some store bought seeds. credibility in the seedbank biz is at the very least a crap shoot. Don't get me going on the femd thing seeing major degen there in the genetic pool grrrr how many phenos lost.......forever...if selfing becomes the norm then what...just a bunch of clone only strains with no variation in an abyss of females....its not what peeps think they are...disappearing of possible great phenos...just my two cents.


 :aok:


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## Mutt (Aug 21, 2009)

> Do you suppose 'any' of the _clone only_ strains are a stable ?? I have always been under the impression, that 'clone only' was "not" stable, thus available only from a specific 'Donor/mother' phenotype. Possibly even an F1 hybrid of exceptional quality.



I thought clone only meant that even the F1 hybrid didn't hold the trait...thus why stuck clone only.

Which brings another question..how come clone only cannot be selfed and have at least femd seeds...unless even the S1's won't even hold the trait.

I love a good male seed here. broaden that gene pool.


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## NorCalHal (Aug 21, 2009)

You boys have alot better understanding of breeding then I, but I can give my 2cents on the "Clone-Only" strains.

Hick, I have worked with quite a few "clone-only" strains and have not ran into any type of instability or 'morph trait at all. Maybe I am Lucky. The main clone only I work with is the Bubba Kush, and have been running her for a few years now, with no genetic issue at all, very consistent. I have ran Erkle,GDP,PK, OG,Chem, and no issues with any of them.

As I said, I really know nothing of breeding, but my impression and info gave to me was that the "Clone-Only" is simply just , as you said, a particular Pheno from a batch of seeds. That particular Pheno was saved and recloned and off it goes....

Living in Cali we have been fortunate in our laws, which in turn allows "breeding" folks a little more comfort in growing bigger gardens and having higher plant counts, which I believe is Required to sort thru seed stock and find "the one". The relaxed "scene" here makes it a little eaiser in peoples minds to keep bigger Veg Chambers and save the "best of the best". 

All I know is my experience, and Fem beans 'morph, there is no way around it...sooner or later....


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 21, 2009)

I hadn't even considered Mutt's lost pheno theory... or alot of the other points made in this thread. I am now though My experience is limited and I suppose I've been lucky. it's definitely not that hard to pull a good pheno and keep a mother from standard seed.. more time consuming but I can see the worth in the big picture. If I'm honest, I guess my opinion has changed due to the fact that I found a 'retarded' seed (just one) in the Gigabud. If I intended to keep the strain around that ONE seed would be a BIG problem later on. Good thread guys.. I'm convinced.


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## greenfriend (Aug 21, 2009)

Honestly I have no idea whether the "clone only" strains sold at bay area dispensaries are stable or not, but in my experience even with lots of stress and damage, they pull through and do fine.

I know breeders do breed quality males, such as Subcool's spacequeen male, which he crosses with almost all his strains.  

Hick, im ignorant to the intricacies of breeding, maybe you can explain a couple things:  if i were to start 10 regular seeds male and female of the same strain and i didnt remove the males, plants pollinated and seeded, would the seeds that I produced be of the same quality of the original seed pack?  and would you get a wider range of phenos with the hundreds of seeds you made than with the 10 original seeds?


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## SkunkPatronus (Aug 21, 2009)

greenfriend said:
			
		

> first off, while its nice to make your own hybrid, imo stabilizing and backcrossing it to make it a good clone only strain is waaaay too much trouble for most people, except for good breeders who do it for a living. for my purposes, male seeds are useless
> 
> and second, there are more really quality strains available from online seed vendors than i could grow in my lifetime. why would you not want to buy seeds from breeders, they spend every single day making a huge selection of bomb strains for you to grow
> 
> ...


 
Right, When there is no more male seeds available for people like me to play with, and we can only buy female seeds from the existing sources, they will control the market... they will control the price and availability of *your* seeds, because there will be no one like me with the ability to alter the market share that they have reduced to just a limited number of people that can breed/hybridize/cross the plants.  That is a monopoly. That is your 2) exclusive control of the commodity, change in availability which allows change of price.  Increased price.  They wil control all of the seeds.  Think it thru.  

Just because you don't play with the males isn't part of the issue, the issue is that the prices are still low because of all the people that do play with the males and that they are still part of our locally available gene pool.  If you take out all of the males, we will only be able to buy any of our seeds from just those sources that still have them... and the prices will be driven up by demand and the supply will become limited over time.


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## Mutt (Aug 21, 2009)

> if i were to start 10 regular seeds male and female of the same strain and i didnt remove the males, plants pollinated and seeded, would the seeds that I produced be of the same quality of the original seed pack? and would you get a wider range of phenos with the hundreds of seeds you made than with the 10 original seeds?



depends on how true breeding it is. but in a nut shell without getting to far into it. Yes you would see more pheno variation in each subsequent cross. The number of possible phenos by the 3rd generation (F3) gets staggering. But it all depends how true breeding it is. Thats where stability becomes the issue. but always recommend to everyone to do a seed run every now and then...keep your selves in supply.  F3's heck F4's ain't all that bad either  Get some wild stuff popping out. Outcrossing is where it gets really fun.

By doing inbred crosses you'll tend to stay closer to the parents...male and female selection become important. If you outcross lets say a pack of afghani to AK47 your pheno variation becomes more and every generation after that gets even bigger unless running selective inbredding.

many theories on this stuff, and tactics, paths to choose from. but in the end still makin seeds LOL I don't want to complicate this thread...as it still bends my head on how many tactics are out there regarding breeding.


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## Hick (Aug 21, 2009)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I thought clone only meant that even the F1 hybrid didn't hold the trait...thus why stuck clone only.
> 
> Which brings another question..how come clone only cannot be selfed and have at least femd seeds...unless even the S1's won't even hold the trait.
> 
> I love a good male seed here. broaden that gene pool.



I think/thought (someone correct me if I'm wrong) that S1's or at least 'selfed' seeds were what the clone only strain seeds we see in the forums, seed banks are/were. And I see a comsiderable amount of variation there.  


> Hick, I have worked with quite a few "clone-only" strains and have not ran into any type of instability or 'morph trait at all. Maybe I am Lucky. The main clone only I work with is the Bubba Kush, and have been running her for a few years now, with no genetic issue at all, very consistent. I have ran Erkle,GDP,PK, OG,Chem, and no issues with any of them.
> 
> As I said, I really know nothing of breeding, but my impression and info gave to me was that the "Clone-Only" is simply just , as you said, a particular Pheno from a batch of seeds. That particular Pheno was saved and recloned and off it goes....


  I was meaning the seeds of the clone only strains nch. ..Or that is 'why' they are clone only, bacause 'that' pheno' is not readily reproduced.

aplasia... that went right over my head dude...:ignore:


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## DynaGlideGuy (Sep 29, 2009)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> I grew 5 fem Buddha White Dwarfs and all were fine...my current grow _*I got my seeds from dope-seeds.com and all the fem seeds were good except for the Auto BlueKush from Autofem*_...out of 3 beans 2 were duds and the 3rd grew balls.... Overall I like fem seeds...helps when space is an issue and you want a certain number of females....it wld be hard for me to grow 20 autos and hope 10 are female...


 

Sorry dont take it the wrong way but I am glad it wasnt me,  I mean my F2M ratio was pretty good until then

Well outta my 3 AutoBlueKush ONLY 3 were male.  The only good news is I only wasted 2weeks or so an a few bucks on em

So it looks like this maybe 1 for everyone to avoid

Best wishes
"P"

Great post too bad I just found it


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