# female male -male female ??



## godtea (Feb 5, 2008)

Noticed some banks make a point as to which strain is the pollenator in thier hybrids ( male WW x female BB ) , would (male BB x female WW ) result in a different outcome .
If so which has trait dominance male or female ,or do they dominate in different traits ?
 You get the picture .


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## Pot Belly (Feb 5, 2008)

That is a very good question.  I'll be looking for replies on this too.

For MJ, does the female or male carry the more dominant alleles when selecting preferable traits?

I see punnet squares coming into the equation.  It's going to get very scientific, godtea.........


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## Mutt (Feb 5, 2008)

Name is supposed to have female listed first male second.
So Female WW
Male NL
would make a WWxNL



			
				growFAQ said:
			
		

> In the horticultural world, the order of naming in hybrids should be Female X Male. Many breeders and retailers practice improper naming protocol. I have seen too many obvious discrepencies in commercial Cannabis naming practices to give any validity to the standard protocol as a way to determine the parentage. Breeders and retailers should correct this.


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## Hick (Feb 5, 2008)

It is theorized.. that the different sex's, dominate or at least co-dominate, in different characteristics, but I don't think that is has been proven. 
  In addition, "I" would belive that it would also be dependant on the strength of he dominate traits AND recssive traits. in each. That is, a big stout, robust, male, that wreaks of skunk, might well carry forward that particular trait, to "all" of it's offspring. If it were strong/dominate enough. O n the other hand, maybe the female/females he was mated with, carried that same trait in a recessive gene, makeing it easy to isolate and breed into the next fillia. Or the females might possibly be, "very" dominate sweet cherry odor, which might completely dominate a lesser male, and all offspring might have the cherry odor. Or a combination of the above, 50% skunk and 50% cherry, or some may smell like a skunk in a cherry tree. 
    I used to have a mathematical formula, that showed how fast and vast, the number of different phenotype possibilities can become, when crossing two unrelated P1's.


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 5, 2008)

WW * BB would have all offspring of WB as both had only dominent genes.
PS Think I misunderstood what you were after...sorry


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## Hick (Feb 5, 2008)

I'ma Joker Midnight Toker said:
			
		

> WW * BB would have all offspring of WB as both had only dominent genes.
> PS Think I misunderstood what you were after...sorry


??.. the initial F1 offspring of two stable P1 parents, is a true hybrid. They "usally" show an equal amount of both parents, with very little variance in pheno''s, and grow robust. (hybrid vigor)..The F2 generation, is where things really start to get dicey.


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 5, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> ??.. the initial F1 offspring of two stable P1 parents, is a true hybrid. They "usally" show an equal amount of both parents, with very little variance in pheno''s, and grow robust. (hybrid vigor)..The F2 generation, is where things really start to get dicey.


 
Yes Hick very true, and all basically the same and little differences as they all have the same gene make-up as WB is equal of both, but that's what it is for F1, but if it was Ww & Bb  and  you did a Punit square you'd have F1 with 4 different characteristics, WB, Wb, wB, and wb. Then that's were F2 is way wacky....  Think we're on the same track.


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 5, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> It is theorized.. that the different sex's, dominate or at least co-dominate, in different characteristics, but I don't think that is has been proven.


Actually, yes this has been proven by Mendel and his study of peas...my Bio days...


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## Kupunakane (Feb 5, 2008)

Thanks Mutt and Hick,
  I think I am getting a grip on it. Tell me if this is right;
Dirtweed X WW X cherry = One dirty OL' Broad that smells like cherries. LMAO
exactly what I'm looking for. LOL
sorry, I couldnt help it.:aok:
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 5, 2008)

godtea said:
			
		

> Noticed some banks make a point as to which strain is the pollenator in thier hybrids ( male WW x female BB ) , would (male BB x female WW ) result in a different outcome .
> If so which has trait dominance male or female ,or do they dominate in different traits ?
> You get the picture .


 
Sorry had to think on this one as I hate it when I screw up. It depends on the trait when it comes to sex. BB for female could mean let's say tall height. If it means that for a male in the growing world male tall height may be taller, let's say 12 ft than female tall height, let's say 10 ft. So in this instance it would depend which one carried the dominant gene for tall height so in some and maybe many areas it could matter what sex carries what. So BB * WW could be different (and most likely is) than WW * BB. Hope this helped.


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 5, 2008)

KingKahuuna said:
			
		

> Thanks Mutt and Hick,
> I think I am getting a grip on it. Tell me if this is right;
> Dirtweed X WW X cherry = One dirty OL' Broad that smells like cherries. LMAO
> exactly what I'm looking for. LOL
> ...


 
Hmmm, I thought it was a dirty OL' Broad that was still a virgin...


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## godtea (Feb 6, 2008)

I get the basics of Mendelian genetics .
What I don't get is why maleA crossed with femaleB gives a different result from femaleA crossed with maleB .
assumeing both strains are pure.
 Is there some sort of genetic suppression involved relating to sex


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## Hick (Feb 6, 2008)

godtea said:
			
		

> I get the basics of Mendelian genetics .
> What I don't get is why maleA crossed with femaleB gives a different result from femaleA crossed with maleB .
> assumeing both strains are pure.
> Is there some sort of genetic suppression involved relating to sex



"I" see the poblem there, as there being no "pure" strains, especially in this day and age. All of the _designer_ strains of today, are stabalized hybrids, but not _pure_.
http://users.adelphia.net/~lubehawk/BioHELP!/inccodom.htm 
<-- "Co-dominance and incomplete dominance"

http://users.adelphia.net/~lubehawk/BioHELP!/inccodom.htm


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 6, 2008)

godtea said:
			
		

> I get the basics of Mendelian genetics .
> What I don't get is why maleA crossed with femaleB gives a different result from femaleA crossed with maleB .
> assumeing both strains are pure.
> Is there some sort of genetic suppression involved relating to sex


 
It's not just male A and female B, (it's AABB for both) if the male is ABcdEFg..., the male plant is carrying other traits at the same time not necessarily matching the female, she could be ABCdeFg, so the F1 hybrid would be AB as the strain was bred for it... but to keep it simple the dominant would be ABCdEFg. A little different than each parent because they are never "pure" or exactly the same, almost like fingerprints, close but not exactly duplicated. Now if this plant is not back crossed (sex with parent) or inbred (with itself) it is going to meet another AB strain but that strain could be ABcDefG making the dominant offspring ABCDEFG, again different. So it's not just the main genetics that come into play. They have been breed for these certain characteristics but it's near impossible without a DNA analysis of each plant to cross perfect dominance where you want it. This is way you get small differences, it's the other genes that come into play. The d gene on the first parent male could be for orange hairs. Every time it meets a female with a small d they have orange hair F1, but if the female has a large D (dominant), that trait is going to take over, maybe yellow hairs. I probably still confused the crap out of you, the important thing is that the traits most associated with that strain are going to be dominant in both parents. Golden retrievers still have light or dark golden fur, depending on which female the male is studded to. :holysheep: 

PS One more cog in the wheel, environment has an effect on phenotype as well, the acidity of the medium can change color traits for example...


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## Kupunakane (Feb 6, 2008)

Yo Ho Toker,
    That was a pretty good descriptive to me. I enjoyed it cause one can follow that type of logic fairly easy, and that is pretty much what I look at with my exotics.
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna


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## I'ma Joker Midnight Toker (Feb 6, 2008)

KingKahuuna said:
			
		

> Yo Ho Toker,
> That was a pretty good descriptive to me. I enjoyed it cause one can follow that type of logic fairly easy, and that is pretty much what I look at with my exotics.
> smoke in peace
> KingKahuuna


 
Thanks KK,
  Here's another small twist, I had to consult my BIO book but I knew there was more, and actually a little more besides this too! This chart may help too...so you cam imagine when you look at a large number of genes the variations that there can be, in the same "strain", as there are only two sets of genes on this chart.:holysheep:


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## Kupunakane (Feb 6, 2008)

Yo Ho Toker,
   Dude, I could have used that as an example a bunch of times in here. You know once you look at it and begin to grasp what it means, then you pull out your notebook and pencil, and keep track of what it is your crossing, or backing. Having the original notes that were made in the breeding in the first place would really be of help. Sometimes it's the unknown one that pops up and throws you for a complete loop, but it's cool. Variety really is the spice of life. 
  This is why I would like to live somewhere so that I don't worry about having so many and getting busted. Then us folks that are into breeding can work our brains to death creating yum-yums ya know ?
smoke in peace
KingKahuuna


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## Mutt (Feb 6, 2008)

Hick said:
			
		

> "I" see the poblem there, as there being no "pure" strains, especially in this day and age. All of the _designer_ strains of today, are stabalized hybrids, but not _pure_.
> http://users.adelphia.net/~lubehawk/BioHELP!/inccodom.htm
> <-- "Co-dominance and incomplete dominance"


Still some 100% (suposedly) out there...seen Afghani (labled 100% landrace   ) over at planetskunk.
Please note my doubts. LOL


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## godtea (Feb 7, 2008)

No one has addressed my initial question.
If half the genes are comeing from the male and half are comeing from the female What difference does it make that the male is donateing ABC... and the female is donating XYZ... as compared with the inverse (ie.male XYZ... , female ABC...) More than one seed bank makes a point of indicating which strain in the cross is the male and which is the female.
I want to know why


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