# Michigan's medical marijuana profit: $8 million



## FruityBud (Jun 11, 2011)

Medical marijuana aimed at helping Michiganders with their pain turns out to be a helpful prescription for the state's challenged budget, as well.

In its first two years of operation, state licensing of marijuana patients and their caregivers has turned more than an $8-million profit -- generating nearly $9.7 million in revenue against $1.5 million in expenses, according to a new state report.

Marijuana fees topped $4.8 million between just Oct. 1, 2010, and March 31. And the growth continues at a rapid pace, said program manager Rae Ramsdell.

More than 100,000 Michiganders are registered to use and provide medical marijuana, Ramsdell said, far exceeding projections made after state voters overwhelmingly approved medical marijuana in 2008.

But Ramsdell said costs are growing, too. The office she supervises was initially staffed by three people and now has 17, she said.

Still, delays of four months or more in processing applications remain common.

Marijuana patient advocates contend that the licensing fees (currently set at $100 a year) were supposed to be set only high enough to run the program.

An Oakland County marijuana patient, who asked that his last name not be used for fear of being targeted by police, said the state's profit at the expense of legal marijuana users was predictable.

"They should have known this would happen," he said. "I know they're trying to keep up, but they need to get rid of the backlog."

*hxxp://tinyurl.com/3ly222v*


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## Roddy (Jun 12, 2011)

I also saw where they were trying to figure out a way to crack down on the bogus prescriptions...those who don't actually need it.


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## Roddy (Jun 12, 2011)

ADRIAN, Mich. &#8212;
An Adrian brother and sister busted for indoor marijuana-growing operations were arraigned Wednesday in Lenawee County District Court on felony counts. Jason Robert Herron, 26, and Jennifer Rena Herron, 28, remain free on personal recognizance bonds pending preliminary examinations on June 20. They face up to seven-year prison terms.

The OMNI Team 3 drug unit found indoor grow operations at a vacant house in Dover Township and at Jason Herron&#8217;s home in Adrian, said Michigan State Police Lt. Steve Galbreath. The brother and sister are both charged with growing 65 plants found at the Dover Township house, he said  Jason Herron is also charged with growing 57 plants at his house and with maintaining a drug house.

The two have medical marijuana cards, Galbreath said, and were believed to be using &#8220;straw patients&#8221; who do not need medical marijuana as a cover to grow marijuana that was being illegally sold to other individuals.

Michigan&#8217;s medical marijuana law allows card holders to grow up to 12 plants. They can also be certified as caregivers for up to five other card holders and grow 12 plants for each of them.

Galbreath said he believes there are &#8220;quite a few&#8221; growers using the medical marijuana law as a shield for illegal operations.

hxxp://www.lenconnect.com/news/police_and_fire/x1043747820/Siblings-busted-for-indoor-marijuana-growing-operations


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## Roddy (Jun 12, 2011)

ROME TWP., Mich. &#8212;
An anonymous tip led to the confiscation of an estimated $8 million worth of marijuana from a Rome Township couple&#8217;s rural home.

Edwin and Linda Schmieding, both 60, remain in the Lenawee County Jail after bonds were set at $1.5 million for him and $1 million for her Tuesday afternoon in Lenawee County District Court. Both are charged with manufacturing more than 200 marijuana plants and with conspiracy. Edwin Schmieding also faces a felony firearm charge stemming from numerous handguns and long guns police seized from the home at 12501 Rome Road.

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The couple are accused of growing more than 8,000 marijuana plants on their Rome Road property west of Hawkins Highway that had been a commercial flower farm. Doug Hartung, assistant Lenawee County prosecutor, said local officials are also talking with federal authorities because an operation of this size is far beyond personal use.

The raid was carried out by members of the Michigan State Police Office of Monroe Narcotics Investigation (OMNI) Team 3, which includes officers from some Lenawee County police departments. The Jackson Narcotics Enforcement Team also assisted.

OMNI officers and other law enforcement officials spent Monday night and much of Tuesday harvesting plants. Michigan State Police Lt. Steve Galbreath said the final count is 8,023 marijuana plants. They were in various stages of growth in several locations on the property.

Michigan State Police Inspector Gene Adamczyk said the plants ranged from seedlings to fully grown, 6-foot-tall stalks, leading officials to suspect a potential wider range for their investigation.

&#8220;This is probably the most extensive marijuana growing operation that I can remember in the Hillsdale and Lenawee area,&#8221; Adamczyk  said. &#8220;This will put a crimp in some marketing somewhere.&#8221;

Calculating a potential one pound of marijuana per plant, officials estimated the street value of the bust to be more than $8 million. The price is $1,000 per pound on the street, Galbreath said.

The growing operation, which appears to have been going on for several years, included a greenhouse and several fields. Many of the plants were hidden among pine trees on the property, he said.

&#8220;This was well-hidden. It is a very rural environment,&#8221; Adamczyk said. &#8220;If you drove past it, you wouldn&#8217;t be able to see anything.&#8221;

Edwin and Linda Schmieding appeared distraught during a video arraignment from jail Tuesday afternoon. District Judge James E. Sheridan had to repeat several portions of the arraignment for them. Both said they are receiving Social Security disability and do not have money to hire their own attorneys. Public defenders were appointed.

&#8220;I don&#8217;t think either one of us are a great flight risk,&#8221; Edwin Schmieding said while Sheridan was setting bond.

He set bond at $500,000 per count. The couple face maximum 15-year prison terms and $10 million fines on the marijuana and conspiracy counts. Edwin Schmieding faces a mandatory two-year prison term if convicted of the felony firearm count.

Lenawee County Sheriff Jack Welsh said the investigation began with an anonymous tip to a detective, who alerted the drug enforcement team. OMNI officers went to the scene to begin the investigation and noticed the smell of marijuana. That was enough evidence to secure a search warrant, said Hartung.

When they continued to investigate, officers found nearly 1,000 plants in a greenhouse. The search turned up an extensive growing operation that included lights, a watering system and ventilation equipment.

State police Lt. Tim Gill said officers also confiscated several handguns which were in a locked safe along with about $2,500 in cash. The property is subject to forfeiture, Gill said.

The Schmiedings did not resist and did not have criminal records, said Adamczyk.

OMNI Team 3 is a multi-jurisdictional task force made up of officers from the state police, Lenawee County Sheriff&#8217;s Department, Raisin Township Police Department the Adrian Police Department.

Daily Telegram staff writer Dennis Pelham contributed to this report.

Copyright 2011 The Daily Telegram. Some rights reserved

hxxp://www.lenconnect.com/news/police_and_fire/x1841753048/-7-million-in-Rome-Township-marijuana-plants-seized


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## Roddy (Jun 12, 2011)

*Lenawee County Sheriff Jack Welsh said the investigation began with an anonymous tip to a detective, who alerted the drug enforcement team. OMNI officers went to the scene to begin the investigation and noticed the smell of marijuana. That was enough evidence to secure a search warrant, said Hartung.*

I call ** to the part of smelling the MJ.....been on the property and drive past every day....no smell ever. The plants (aside from the 1000 in greenhouse...which isn't close to road) were spread out over a few acres, as I understand.


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## NorCalHal (Jun 12, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I also saw where they were trying to figure out a way to crack down on the bogus prescriptions...those who don't actually need it.


 

Dude....ur killin' me. EVERYONE needs it, and it is up to a Medical Doctor to give the reccomendation. There are NO bogus recs....ever bro. It is between the Doc and the "patient". If you beleive otherwise...your just l;ike the cops.

Who is ANYONE to say that MJ does or doesn't help folks for any reason. Again Roddy....your falling into the Gov hype.


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## Locked (Jun 12, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I also saw where they were trying to figure out a way to crack down on the bogus prescriptions...*those who don't actually need it*.



Gotta agree with NCH...you seem to worry a lot about people and thier medical conditions that allowed them to get a script in the first place. Who is anybody to question someones need? I don't care if someone has a hang nail and gets a script for MMJ. That is between them and their doctor.  jmo


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## powerplanter (Jun 12, 2011)

This is why Jack Herer never indorsed a MMJ bill.  It needs to be legal for all.  To relax after a hard day, or what ever.


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## Irish (Jun 12, 2011)

thier estimates are not correct. (and im no mathmetician) they say one pound per plant at a thousand a plant = 8 mil? :doh: 

now what will they do with the 8 mil made off licensing in michigan? the law was written with specifics stating there was to be no profit. they were only supposed to charge enough to cover operating costs! 

i think they should have to spend that on mmj specifically. bet they build a bridge!:doh:


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Dude....ur killin' me. EVERYONE needs it, and it is up to a Medical Doctor to give the reccomendation. *There are NO bogus recs....ever bro. It is between the Doc and the "patient"*. If you beleive otherwise...your just l;ike the cops.
> 
> Who is ANYONE to say that MJ does or doesn't help folks for any reason. Again Roddy....your falling into the Gov hype.



You just don't get it, do you?? To some of you, it seems this truly is just a bogus deal, go see the doc, complain about an ache and all is good. While I would be most pleased if and when ALL of us can use as we wish without need for the pretense of MMJ, this is a STEPPING STONE, a very BIG stepping stone. Screw it up now and we're back to the beginning.

Hype, not hardly!

The boldened part...yep, that's the problem all right! Every teen and young adult around here are jumping to see the doc...give him a story and some money and you're smoking pot and laughing at the cops in weeks...sad! Using the law in this manner is a black eye to ALL of us hoping to legalize this stuff. 

Everyone needs it....NOT HARDLY! Everyone WANTS it....be real to yourself and everyone else. If YOU believe otherwise, you're part of the problem! Period!


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> Gotta agree with NCH...you seem to worry a lot about people and thier medical conditions that allowed them to get a script in the first place. Who is anybody to question someones need? I don't care if someone has a hang nail and gets a script for MMJ. *That is between them and their doctor.  jmo*



Between them, the doctor and the people watching to see if this law works...you mean?

Need is right....want is another thing altogether. 15 years or so ago, I used for recreation and didn't pretend otherwise. Had the MMJ been around then, I wouldn't have even tried, I hadn't any real reason. Of course, since all you need to do is go and basically tell him where it hurts (never mind if the pain is merely tired muscles or a hangover), everyone is doing this now. I suppose a major share of this problem also goes to the doctor who will prescribe to anyone with $125.

I feel everyone should be able to use. HOWEVER, when the bending and skirting of the law could potentially set everyone back, I say stop.


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## Hick (Jun 13, 2011)

roddy... "chill"... dude. Don't let your panties get all wadded up. I'm tellin' ya', It "will" chaffe!  

   I understand where you're coming from. I saw/see it here. And I registered a lot of the same complaints, arguements that you have.
 But the simple fact is, CA is a step or two ahead of the rest of the country and the mmj states. They have been pushing the line since day one. If it weren't for them, you 'n I wouldn't be privileged to be  legally (by state and local law) participating in mmj. Give them their due credit.
   As in most new things, there is a learning curve. I'm sure legislators are watching CA and hopefully, learning from it's beneficial aspects as well as it's pitfalls.
   I think we all want to see 'decriminalization', at least. Allow "adults" to make their own decision. Not be labled a criminal for paraking of mj, be it medical or not.


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Some neighbor kids were arrested the other day, selling to other kids. Funny thing, they had their cards (the sellers)....that surely looks good for the system. Brains could be used, I think. These same kids could have easily sold to the dispensary if they needed money, but they got busted instead....selling to kids on the street.


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> roddy... "chill"... dude. Don't let your panties get all wadded up. I'm tellin' ya', It "will" chaffe!
> 
> I understand where you're coming from. I saw/see it here. And I registered a lot of the same complaints, arguements that you have.
> But the simple fact is, CA is a step or two ahead of the rest of the country and the mmj states. They have been pushing the line since day one. If it weren't for them, you 'n I wouldn't be privileged to be  legally (by state and local law) participating in mmj. Give them their due credit.
> ...



My friend, this is exactly what I've been saying. The USA is watching California and other states hard. Give them credit?? I praise the local govt for this, they worked hard and long to get us where we are today. I personally just hate seeing the pitfalls coming up and nipping us in the bud...so to speak!  

When someone tells me stuff like EVERYONE needs it?? If I were standing in front of the medical board, the world of legal MJ was in my hands...that's the LAST argument I would use. 

Ahh Hick, this isn't even close to getting to me, it's a good debate imho! The boldened part....I can't wait! To think, years ago, I was locked up and hounded for my use...I have already seen myself able to legally use, can't wait until all can!


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## NorCalHal (Jun 13, 2011)

Roddy.....the cat is allready out of the Bag man....they can't put it back.
It IS NOT just about helping sick and deathly folks get herb, it's about protecting everyday citizens from arrest.....and if you don't believe that, then you are the problem.
From your comments it sounds like you want to raise the age limit too. crazy.

What you don't understand is the pretense of "medical" my friend. Who are you to say that this person is deserving of a rec and this person is not???
Are you a Doctor??
That is the fight....don't you see?? Your MMJ Recis between you and your Doctor man, not you or anyone else. The Doctor has the ability to give the rec, he/she was the one who went to skool for years and has thier Medical License on the line when they Rec herb to someone. Who are you to Judge?

That's what we have to DRILL into LEO, it is out of thier hands man, it is now in the hands of the citizens and thier Doctors who believe in MMJ and want to protect thier folks. That is the fight.

You say you can't wait until everyone is legally able to use, but yet you want to restrict and talk crap about folks who get thier Rec. ???What??
Again, you just don't get it, you are on the Gov's bandwagon and think that it should only be for folks who you consider "sick". Wake up bro.
Being someone who was locked up for herb, you think you would have more "compassion".


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## NorCalHal (Jun 13, 2011)

You gotta understand what I have seen in the last 12 months out on the left coast man.

It IS an Industry...don't fool yourself. Get in while you can...Big Pharma is comin' and they are going to take over and we will all be screwed....I say 5-8 years....there will be no more debate, because we will have lost control.

The only way to win is to set up a MMJ Biz and get cashed out when Big Pharma comes and buys everyone out and assumes control. Mark my words folks.....it's coming.


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## Hick (Jun 13, 2011)

It isn't about "needing mmj".. it is about every citizen "needing" the right to make their own choice.


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## Mutt (Jun 13, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> It isn't about "needing mmj".. it is about every citizen "needing" the right to make their own choice.



spoken like a true libertarian. 
and they call us "nut jobs" and "extremists" go figure....it's crazy to want to be free.


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Roddy.....the cat is allready out of the Bag man....they can't put it back.
> It IS NOT just about helping sick and deathly folks get herb, it's about protecting everyday citizens from arrest.....and if you don't believe that, then you are the problem.
> From your comments it sounds like you want to raise the age limit too. crazy.
> 
> ...



I'm, not the one to say, the doctor is. And if the doctor decides to allow everyone in regardless of need, we'll soon see this go away! Truly at this point, the prescription is NOT just between you and your doctor, it's including your local lawmakers who are watching this work out! When we see doctors abuse this alongside the patient (and I know, you'll say everyone needs, who's to say otherwise), this will not be an issue because we will have lost! The ones to say otherwise also hold the power to convict.

I want to restrict?? Hardly!~ I want clear regulations of the laws as put on paper so this works out and is the stepping stone we see it as. Again, you are missing the point...I want ALL to be able to use, it isn't that way now and won't change if we disregard the laws in place. We're close, really close...would be a dammed shame if it got derailed because some people can't wait! Then, who would you say isn't compassionate? The guy trying to get legalization or....

All I believe you see is that I am against MJ...period. Maybe you should read what I've been posting, my friend....

btw...Hick mentioned adults, I merely agree! After all, do we allow 12 year olds to drink?


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> It isn't about "needing mmj".. it is about every citizen "needing" the right to make their own choice.



There's a statement I can get on board with...nicely said, my friend!!!


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> You gotta understand what I have seen in the last 12 months out on the left coast man.
> 
> It IS an Industry...don't fool yourself. Get in while you can...Big Pharma is comin' and they are going to take over and we will all be screwed....I say 5-8 years....there will be no more debate, because we will have lost control.
> 
> The only way to win is to set up a MMJ Biz and get cashed out when Big Pharma comes and buys everyone out and assumes control. Mark my words folks.....it's coming.



This truly sounds like a salesman's standpoint, and gives me a little understanding in where your thoughts are. I think I see it now.

If you're worried about making a living, then yes, big pharma will ultimately take this from you. However, most of us are more concerned with being free to USE as we wish, to grow our own and to enjoy! Big pharma won't be stopping this, just the profiting off mmj


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> It IS NOT just about helping sick and deathly folks get herb, it's about protecting everyday citizens from arrest.....and if you don't believe that, then you are the problem.



I'm all for this, please tell me how breaking laws will bring us to this end?


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## Mutt (Jun 13, 2011)

> Big pharma won't be stopping this, just the profiting off mmj


If Big Pharma gets a hold of it we won't have any freedom. FDA will gain full control and it will be formulated into a bottle and require similar regulation to all controlled substances. We will not be able to grow. We will not be able to possess without a prescription. It will be for the worse not the better.


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

I don't see it this way! 

Local govt already has made a statement...we don't want to spend taxpayer money to control something when it isn't needed. I HIGHLY doubt local govt will change their stance (unless everyone screws it up, of course) just so big pharma can take over, they'll still not desire wasting time, money and jail space.

I loved the statement made in one of the news stories where the local govt guy said (basically) feds can suck garbage water, state law trumps (loosely translated lol).

And it doesn't sound like an IF, I think I already read where the Danish have approved big pharma's newest product to this end?


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## Erbal (Jun 13, 2011)

Roddy, from what I understand on what you have posted, when it comes to people doing something illegal with an MMJ script, you blame the MMJ laws and the system that created it. Not the retards that are breaking the law.

That is as silly as blaming the guns for killing people and not the person that pulled the trigger.

If you really want to see MJ legal, then fighting MMJ until it is will be counter productive. If you stand on a soapbox talking about how criminals abuse MMJ all people will hear is MMJ produces criminals. MMJ protects me and thousands of other people. My problems are not of your concern, they are between me and my doctor.

Confidentiality is not just my right to privacy. Patient/Doctor confidentiality is one of the most restricted and respected laws in this country. As an combat medic vet, I understand the reasons for these laws and support them. The only person who can say someone is not worthy of a MMJ card is the doctor. Not the government, not the politicians, and certainly not you.

Without MMJ, thousands of people, myself included, would be putting their lives at risk every day for either smoking or growing. With MMJ people don't have to worry about putting the business, family, reputation, assets, and personal safety at risk from both the cops AND from shady dealers.

I honestly give a rats *** if people use MMJ as a cover.
1) What they do is not my concern if they don't harm anyone.
2) Having MJ become increasingly familiar throughout the country is needed if MJ is ever going to become legal.
3) It helps keep people out of prison meaning they don't use my tax dollars in the court and prison system.

I could go on, but I just want to mention that unjust laws create outlaws amongst honest men. Our country was founded with rebellious outlaws. I consider not questioning and challenging the laws unpatriotic. How can you fight unjust laws if you accept them all as good? MMJ was created to help fight the anti-MJ laws that were created first!

If you believe that MMJ has created a means for people to be criminals you are fooling yourself. The people will still do what they want. I say applaud them for trying to be as legit as possible. They payed for the trip to the Docs, and they pay the price every day of having lost the right to privacy by having their name on a list controlled by the state.

If people without MMJ get in trouble, do you blame them for being criminals or the laws that created them? You support legalizing MJ, smoke MJ, but do you have an MMJ card? If no, then you are just as much a criminal as the next guy, and if yes, then you are protected by the same laws you argue are "loopholes for criminals" to become legal citizens.


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Erbal said:
			
		

> Roddy, from what I understand on what you have posted, when it comes to people doing something illegal with an MMJ script, you blame the MMJ laws and the system that created it. Not the retards that are breaking the law.
> 
> That is as silly as blaming the guns for killing people and not the person that pulled the trigger.
> 
> ...



Methinks thou protests too much.... 

Reading your rant tells me you have no clue what I post....maybe read some of them and then protest more?


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## Locked (Jun 13, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Methinks thou protests too much....
> 
> Reading your rant tells me you have no clue what I post....maybe read some of them and then protest more?




What????? Erbal just did a great job summing all that up and that is how you respond? You gotta be kidding. Your own posts seem contradictory at times.
You strike me as the guy who just can't be wrong....when someone points out valid points you dismiss them with "you hve no clue".  

:doh:


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## jc2010 (Jun 13, 2011)

roddy you obviously have a card. i also do. so if i grow and have overages and dont wana kep them am i a criminal for getting rid of it???? and like hamster said you have ran your self in a circle. i understand the frustration you have with people getting caught violating laws. them are the people that make us look bad. but to say that they are gunna crack down i am a 22 year old that has a condition that would have me taking opiates the rest of my life. pain is also different in everyone so how can you argue the point that some people dont need a card. how do you know how they feel pain? i just dont understand some of the things you say about this the more people who get a card and dont break the laws and get caught the better for mj in general!! have a good day my friend


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## Mutt (Jun 13, 2011)

Erbal said:
			
		

> I consider not questioning and challenging the laws unpatriotic



Excellent view :aok:
When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. -Thomas Jefferson


I  hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as  necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.-Thomas Jefferson


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## dman1234 (Jun 13, 2011)

Im lucky enough not to have a condition that would allow me a MMJ card.

And i feel i have every right to grow and smoke the same as someone who does have a card


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## nova564t (Jun 13, 2011)

The doc I got my recommendation from said "I'm not turning anyone down even if I have to make something up. I'd rather see folks getting high than drinking."  It's all about the freedom to choose, if we are allowed to kill ourselves with alcohol we should also be able catch a much safer buzz with weed.


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## Mutt (Jun 13, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I loved the statement made in one of the news stories where the local  govt guy said (basically) feds can suck garbage water, state law trumps



Yes it is in the constitution that states hold that power....until they declared it a "War" on drugs. 
This is were the debate comes
Firstly
due to Clause 2 of the 4th article of the constitution. Feds keep control.
It requires the Federal Govt. to protect us from invasion.
Certain words have been used by the leaders over the years such as "drug violence". This and the declaration of War put it completely in the federals hands.
secondly
Article 6 of the constitution states
Clause two provides that the Constitution, federal laws made pursuant to  it and treaties made under its authority, constitute the supreme law of  the land. It provides that state courts are bound by the supreme law; in case of conflict between federal and state law, the federal law must be applied. Even state constitutions are subordinate to federal law.

Now as a Libertarian, I beleive It should be the rights of the states to handle domestic issues and consider federal prohibition against our constitution (from a libertarian perspective), but if you look at the evolution of marijuana prohibition. It was not law of the land. feds pressured it over time and more and more states adopted it then it became federal law of the land. Thus article 6 took hold. Article four addresses the "War" on drugs.

So really there are two articles that the feds can use to support trumping state law, but article four can bite em too as it should be a states right issue. Not dealt with on a federal level.

It's how it manifested is why it is now the way it is. It's not something the feds just said "hey it's now law"


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> What????? Erbal just did a great job summing all that up and that is how you respond? You gotta be kidding. Your own posts seem contradictory at times.
> You strike me as the guy who just can't be wrong....when someone points out valid points you dismiss them with "you hve no clue".
> 
> :doh:


He said right off that I am against MMJ....against legalizing MJ for that matter. Either he has no clue as to my posts or he's arguing to argue. Yes, exactly how I'll respond.



			
				jc2010 said:
			
		

> roddy you obviously have a card. i also do. so if i grow and have overages and dont wana kep them am i a criminal for getting rid of it???? and like hamster said you have ran your self in a circle. i understand the frustration you have with people getting caught violating laws. them are the people that make us look bad. but to say that they are gunna crack down i am a 22 year old that has a condition that would have me taking opiates the rest of my life. pain is also different in everyone so how can you argue the point that some people dont need a card. how do you know how they feel pain? i just dont understand some of the things you say about this the more people who get a card and dont break the laws and get caught the better for mj in general!! have a good day my friend


Let me be as clear as possible....ANYONE taking advantage of the law in a way that HURTS the legalization move....I am against. 

Do you have a copy of your state's law? If you read it and it says you are not allowed to sell for any reason, then you're a criminal. However, I would guess this isn't the case and you know this? WWWWAAAAYYYYYY back in the beginning, I said I was all for being able to recoup...I hope one day I can...one day!

Some of you seem to not read my posts...that's cool! 



			
				Mutt said:
			
		

> Excellent view :aok:
> When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty. -Thomas Jefferson
> 
> 
> I  hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing, and as  necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.-Thomas Jefferson


Questioning and challenging laws can be done LEGALLY...not very hard to do actually!



			
				dman1234 said:
			
		

> Im lucky enough not to have a condition that would allow me a MMJ card.
> 
> And i feel i have every right to grow and smoke the same as someone who does have a card


And I hope that, one day soon, you can do so without fear of the law kicking your door down!



			
				Mutt said:
			
		

> Yes it is in the constitution that states hold that power....until they declared it a "War" on drugs.
> This is were the debate comes
> Firstly
> due to Clause 2 of the 4th article of the constitution. Feds keep control.
> ...


Yep, we lost our rights slowly over time. This is, as I see it, how we'll gain them back as well...slow and sure! Hopefully, we'll get that chance, at least....


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## Irish (Jun 13, 2011)

your really gonna love me... 

i'm just an old outlaw. i've been signing petitions every year since 69 advocating for decrim. i never seen one that said mmj on it before. sounds like a generation gap stand off going on, and its ok. were all on board for the same ride, heading to the same place.

you don't expect the bus to stop so you can get off halfway to a skynard concert now do ya? 

roddy, ya said that ya praise the local gov because they worked long and hard to get us to this point today.

well listen here, it was not the gov that did a damn thing but give me some grief, and that aint changed to this day, cause they still dont wanna hear us til its time to pick up thier fat checks!

it was old heads like myself and many others here who have been persistant in keeping it in thier faces. and they were to scared to do anything after we gathered the sigs to have them put it to a vote. they were worried they would be blackballed by thier peers, and lose those fat checks if they stood out as a pioneer, and really listened to those that put them in a position to be a voice for the people!

nope, they deserve no praise, and will get none from me and many others. i've spent 42 years rallying for the decrim of mj for everyone. finally in 08, in the state of michigan, we came togeather and voted in mmj as a state. we did that! our local gov had nothing to do with it no more. (they had many many chances too). 

it was an overwhelming vote of 64% of the people of the state that deserve the praise brother. (welcome to the outlaw rodeo. bet i can ride it longer than 8 seconds)! :hubba: 

peace...


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

nova564t said:
			
		

> The doc I got my recommendation from said *"I'm not turning anyone down even if I have to make something up.* I'd rather see folks getting high than drinking."  It's all about the freedom to choose, if we are allowed to kill ourselves with alcohol we should also be able catch a much safer buzz with weed.




Wait...didn't I say this was happening and I was shouted at for saying so? 

Look, I am not against anyone and everyone getting their cards....just that it truly looks bad when something like this happens. It's going to take years and years (imho) for the legalization to happen, a lot of bad things happening could derail it altogether...just saying. Form your own opinion from that and realize I am against no one at all smoking for fun or need.


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## powerplanter (Jun 13, 2011)

You guys got me all paranoid now. I think the cops are at the door....:shocked:


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Irish said:
			
		

> your really gonna love me...
> 
> i'm just an old outlaw. i've been signing petitions every year since 69 advocating for decrim. i never seen one that said mmj on it before. sounds like a generation gap stand off going on, and its ok. were all on board for the same ride, heading to the same place.
> 
> ...



I bet we've brushed shoulders at many a NORML event....maybe even at the Hash Bash which I attend yearly!  

I said the Cali govt deserves praise and I will still say so...as well as Michigan! I praise that someone had the guts to listen to us and put the issue to vote so we could pass it. I praise those in govt who aren't close-minded and didn't just shoot this all down before it could get footing. I praise Michigan for FINALLY finding a way to ease our debt without taking more and more from us....WOW! They actually listened and are now enjoying the needed easing to our economic woes...somewhat!


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## Mutt (Jun 13, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Questioning and challenging laws can be done LEGALLY...not very hard to do actually!



without outlaws the laws would not be questioned  outlaws bring the problem to the light. outlaws push the bar. MMJ someone was sick and broke the law prompting law abiding citizens to do something.

I am just an old school hell raiser I guess. I have no use for laws that tell me how to live. If I infringe upon someone else...then yes those laws I should respect. but as for most of the laws...screw em. I do as I please.


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## Locked (Jun 13, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I have no use for laws that tell me how to live. If I infringe upon someone else...then yes those laws I should respect. but as for most of the laws...screw em. I do as I please.



Well said Mutt.


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## Roddy (Jun 13, 2011)

Call me a wimp, but I did as much time as I wish to, any law changing I attempt will be lawfully!


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## Irish (Jun 13, 2011)

:48:


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## Mutt (Jun 13, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Call me a wimp, but I did as much time as I wish to, any law changing I attempt will be lawfully!



Oh I ain't runnin to get caught either  Jail sux. bologna and ramen noodles from the canteen. uggg.


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## Erbal (Jun 14, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> Methinks thou protests too much....
> 
> Reading your rant tells me you have no clue what I post....maybe read some of them and then protest more?



:doh: I almost don't know what to say about this response.

I have read your posts concerning this area and drew a conclusion from them. That conclusion is that you think MMJ allows people to do the following;
Open dispensaries and make tax free profits.
Gives an avenue for 'drug dealers' to take advantage of the sick.
Allow an area of 'sanctuary' within the law for 'criminals' to hide behind.
Gives people access to MJ who have 'false' or 'unreasonable' complaints to obtain an MMJ script.

I based my post upon those conclusions from your posts for a debate about your opinions in hopes of two things.
1) I want to understand your position better. From my perspective, your stance is rather odd for me to understand. You grow, you support legalization, and yet you have posts that give me the above conclusions. To me, that seems illogical. 
2) I want you to have a better understanding of where I am coming from and view things.



			
				Roddy said:
			
		

> He said right off that I am against MMJ....against legalizing MJ for  that matter. Either he has no clue as to my posts or he's arguing to  argue. Yes, exactly how I'll respond.


This right here tells me you either did not read my post or you did not understand my post. I never said you were against MMJ, or legal MJ. What I said was;


			
				Erbal said:
			
		

> You support legalizing MJ, smoke MJ, but do you have an MMJ card?


 If I write responses to long for you to read the end, let me know, I can make them smaller.


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## Roddy (Jun 14, 2011)

Erbal said:
			
		

> If you really want to see MJ legal, then fighting MMJ until it is will be counter productive.


Seems to me, you think I am fighting MMJ...wouldn't this mean I am against it? As you posted...and I read.

*Open dispensaries and make tax free profits.
Gives an avenue for 'drug dealers' to take advantage of the sick.
Allow an area of 'sanctuary' within the law for 'criminals' to hide behind.
Gives people access to MJ who have 'false' or 'unreasonable' complaints to obtain an MMJ script.*

Aside from the tax-free...in some areas and cases....I think you got it: 

Yep, the caregivers who are supposed to give care for their sick aren't doing so...in some cases. One of mine came to me after her caregiver gave her mexi-dope from the streets...and is caring for 5 patients and can grow 72 plants. And yep, she was waiting 4 months for that!

Criminals aren't hiding behind this law and profiting?? A new one on me.

False is correct. I believe I quoted D-man who posted what his doctor told him?? My first doctor never even took my bp... Unreasonable?? It's unreasonable to have to break a law to smoke....

What is illogical about wanting people to at least give a semblance of following the law so we are taken seriously and can advance to full legalization? If you were a skateboarder and the signs say don't do so on the courthouse steps, but here's a nice park for you, you can have the park as long as you act responsibly...wouldn't it irk you when some "renegades" decide screw the law, we're not getting enough? Of course, there's ALWAYS those who say screw the law regardless....

Erbal, I didn't just make up reasons to complain, I am reporting based on what I've seen in my area. Dispensaries selling immature meds for bigger profits is common in this area. Dispensaries selling seedy dope for big bucks...sad! Worse yet, you have people buying it...ouch! Caregivers selling their goods and buying street dope for their patients....this complaint has come to me from several people about multiple caregivers. I could go on.....

And sorry, almost forgot to comment on last quote....Erbal, if you were reading my posts, you'd KNOW I have an MMJ card...  I based my thought that you weren't reading my posts on that comment as well as some misinformed as above.


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## Hick (Jun 14, 2011)

roddy.... AGAIN... you're registering a lOT of the same complaints that I had only two years ago.  Give it some time to work itself out, it "will"...  
  Those ripoff clinics/disp' will fold and better will spring up to take their place. Prices will reflect an abundance of mj as well.
 The consumer will "weed" out the undesirables  and the market will adjust. 

I considr myself an 'outlaw', but not a criminal.. I _"refuse"_ to abide by, or submit to unjust, unfair laws. I believe it my civic "duty". I grew and smoked pot before mmj was ever a term. There was NO such thing.  Now I am allowed refuge behind mmj legislation. Do I  _"need"_ it?.. maybe not. I'm not a terminal AIDs patient, or suffering from cancer. But I 'do' want/need the right to make my own decision on partaking of it, providing for myself, and accepting the responsibility that comes with it.

personally, I'm against legalization, taxation, and regulation. Where there's money, there WILL be corruption. 
Decriminalize it, stop throwing ppl in jail for growing it. In a couple of years, that kid on the corner won't be able to give his crap weed away, let alone make huge profits off it. I think of it like zucchinis or tomatoes. Around here, come late July, someone is always trying to "give" me a big bag of squash or produce of some kind. Can you imagine?...


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## Roddy (Jun 14, 2011)

I hear you, Hick, I do!

It's good to know these aren't false complaints as some would have me believe...and look forward to when these complaints are no longer.

Against legalization...for decriminalization?? Difference?

*Now I am allowed refuge behind mmj legislation. Do I "need" it?.. maybe not. I'm not a terminal AIDs patient, or suffering from cancer. But I 'do' want/need the right to make my own decision on partaking of it, providing for myself, and accepting the responsibility that comes with it.*

I firmly believe if you are taking a prescription medication for a problem, you should qualify for MMJ. I do not take any prescriptions, but only because they do damage to my stomach and I would rather live with the pain....or smoke.


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## powerplanter (Jun 14, 2011)

I think there are a lot of people who have never smoked or haven't smoked for quite some time.  When they start to understand the difference between kind bud and reg. weed, things will change.  And what hick said.  

Edit:  You also have to apply some " ying and yang "  into the equation. IMO.


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## bho_expertz (Jun 14, 2011)

Well this is a hot topic.

In my opinion there are two major questions here:

1st - Who is eligible for MMJ.

2nd - Should MJ be available to all.

I live in a country where the possession of small amounts is not a crime ( minus 10gr ) but cultivation is. That said is hard to me to accept your (USA) new look to MJ when you (USA) were the MAJOR cause of proibition and criminalization and most countries of the world destroyed thousands of lifes because of it.
Most of you use MMJ and perhaps you really don't need it. But who is anyone to say who needs and who don't MJ ? MMJ you can say who really needs. I think that was the intention of the law makers. But if i lived there i would had a card. Because i wouldn't want to go to jail to have my a$$ nailed by a huge black dude.
MMJ is going to be acquired by the companies. I bet on that. If we all around the globe don't fight for the possibility of free choice for us all we will always be outlaws or criminals based the place we are.

It has to be separeted really well the MMJ from the MJ. Then they regulate the producers, sellers and product for recreational uses like tabbaco or alcohol or they allow ppl to grow a maximum numbers of plants and fight the traffic.

I don't want to offend anyone here. I like to be here :hubba:.


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## NorCalHal (Jun 14, 2011)

Great thread man. We all see the times changing......

Hick.....you made my week bro. I gotta say man, CO came into the scene fast and caught right up. I know a lot of vendors that roll to CO and tell me the scene is the same as here.

Profits......lol. I am from da old skool man. Me Personally, I am stayin on the "white" side of the "grey" line with my MMJ businesses. Following all State laws and employing 5 folks along with myself and my wife. We are all legally makeing a living and paying taxes on our income. 

Roddy, you would cry if I told you what I legally make....cry....and call me a profiteer. What you don't know is the 16 hour days I put in 7 days a week. I havn't had a day off in a year.

But back to "profits". I just came back from Mendo. It again made me realize that Mendo TRULY grows for the NATION. I see 10's of thousands of pounds comin'....friggin crazy bro. These folks have been doing there thing up in the hills for the last 30 years. It supports the WHOLE community and many cities around them. Most folks that live up there are involved in the Biz. Most of the growers abide by the "plant" limit, but have just advanced thier growing technique and are able to produce 5-7 p plants . Add that up with a 99 plant script and you will start to see the amount "legally" grown.

Now, that same herb is going to all other 47 states. Does that now make Mendo a county full of "criminals" in your eyes? I don't see it that way at all. I see pioneers doing what needs to be done.


Back to big Pharma. You think when they take over YOU will be able to grow your own legally??? Heck no. It will be made an offence to grow once they come in. All that we have worked for the last 13 years will be gone. There is nothing we can do about it. Period.
New Jersey is the deciding factor. NJ is allowing only a few dispensaries that control all aspects of the industry. They HAVE to grow what they sell and cannot take in herb from everyday folks. So, this means that the folks who are going to be given the permits will be allowed to basically control the market, as they are required to ONLY sell what they grow.

Know who the heck do you think will get the permits?? Everyday folks like us? Some sick Cancer patient who wants to help folks? No.

It's Big Pharma. Mark my words.Look into who has applied and is being considered to operate the Dispensaries. Makes me sick. Once they establish in NJ.....we are all doomed. They will roll out this model across the US and take over the MMJ Industry. They will do it, as they have all the money in the world.

And if you don't think Money has it's place in MMJ, you are only fooling yourself......

Once they take over, it will be ILLEGAL once again to grow for yourself.


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## NorCalHal (Jun 14, 2011)

I reread Hicks and Roddys last posts....and it gave me a little more understanding.

Hick is correct man, he "debated" with me too when MMJ was first legalized in his state. He did have the same concerns as Roddy. I said the same things I am saying in this thread as I did in 2 year old threads discussing this same argument.
And it all came true. I am not saying I know it all, I am just SUPER in tune with the market, as I have been doing this professionally for 12 years, and fully following the "law" the last 3. Why I say 3 is 4 years ago the Ca State attorney general came out with operating guidlines defining how we can operate.

I think that Mi just jumped on the bus a little late, thats all. the changes will happen and the market will readjust.

Bottom line....folks want thier herb...with a MMJ rec or not. I am a souljah....I will provide my wares to those that want it while following a loose ruleset meant to be pushed.


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## Mutt (Jun 14, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> it will be ILLEGAL once again to grow for yourself.



just look at the alcohol prohibition repeal. It's illegal to distill (and carries a harsh penalty if caught...comparable to a cocaine charge) and limited on beer making. and is regulated by the feds and even has it's own military style force aka the ATF. They scare me more then the DEA. They are some serious jack-booting violent guys...up their with ICE in their processes. Got them on your tail you are screwed.
I can see it now ATF becomes the ATFM


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## Hick (Jun 14, 2011)

It's the "BATFE" npw, "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearm and Explosives" ... and sounds more like it should be the name for a _convenience store_ rather than a government agency..


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## Roddy (Jun 14, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> just look at the alcohol prohibition repeal. It's illegal to distill (and carries a harsh penalty if caught...comparable to a cocaine charge) and limited on beer making. and is regulated by the feds and even has it's own military style force aka the ATF. They scare me more then the DEA. They are some serious jack-booting violent guys...up their with ICE in their processes. Got them on your tail you are screwed.
> I can see it now ATF becomes the ATFM



Anyone can go to Wally World and buy a home brewing kit....right off the shelf, no script needed! Many of these people are even able to make a living selling their brews. 

Truly people, you all said you grew before MMJ and are now crying that MMJ will be taken away and no more growing?? Sounds like a bit of worry for naught...or did we all lose stomach for breaking that law (some say pioneering??)!  I understand some will lose their way of living....legally....but I don't see the sky falling just yet!

psst....don't get all panty-wadded, just yanking your chains. but, think about it....


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## Roddy (Jun 14, 2011)

Hick said:
			
		

> It's the "BATFE" npw, "Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearm and Explosives" ... and sounds more like it should be the name for a _convenience store_ rather than a government agency..



Really??? Wow....


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## Roddy (Jun 14, 2011)

I'll tell you something else, will be darned hard to stop people from growing since more and more are learning how, equipment is more readily available etc! IMHO, at least.....


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## Mutt (Jun 14, 2011)

> Truly people, you all said you grew before MMJ and are now crying that  MMJ will be taken away and no more growing?? Sounds like a bit of worry  for naught...or did we all lose stomach for breaking that law (some say  pioneering??)!  I understand some will lose their way of living....legally....but I don't see the sky falling just yet!



I still don't have mmj in my state 
You just wait dude. Mark our words. If Big Pharma gets it, it will be just like opium. Natural unadulterated opium has no where near the same side effects as synthetic opiates yet is the purest form of it for pain managment. It is illegal for dr. to prescribe it, illegal to grow and harvest it, illegal to have any derivative without FDA/DEA approval.  
It would not surprise me in the least if they do get it that it will be synthesized into a pill slapped with acetaminophen to cause undesirable side effects. The only reason its not happened yet is the feds have not changed the schedule.
When someone presents a statement like that...it makes me look at history, and history shows this is EXACTLY what can happen.


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## Roddy (Jun 14, 2011)

bho_expertz said:
			
		

> Well this is a hot topic.
> 
> In my opinion there are two major questions here:
> 
> ...



I'm afraid it's the lawmakers who have the final say in who "needs" MMJ. Sadly, if lawmakers perceive misuse and open disregard for the laws, it may very well be a bad thing for all of us.

Michigan is already reviewing the guidelines for applications in hopes of stopping the "perceived" misuse. This is a lot of what I have been complaining about.


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## Roddy (Jun 14, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> I still don't have mmj in my state
> You just wait dude. Mark our words. If Big Pharma gets it, it will be just like opium. Natural unadulterated opium has no where near the same side effects as synthetic opiates yet is the purest form of it for pain managment. It is illegal for dr. to prescribe it, illegal to grow and harvest it, illegal to have any derivative without FDA/DEA approval.
> It would not surprise me in the least if they do get it that it will be synthesized into a pill slapped with acetaminophen to cause undesirable side effects. The only reason its not happened yet is the feds have not changed the schedule.
> When someone presents a statement like that...it makes me look at history, and history shows this is EXACTLY what can happen.



I'll worry about that if and when it ever happens...in my lifetime?? Doubtful at best!


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## Mutt (Jun 14, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I'll worry about that if and when it ever happens...in my lifetime?? Doubtful at best!


if there is a way to screw it up the feds are sure to find a way  and very likely in our lifetime. Abuse is the big topic...first thing feds will do is to try to regulate it. No way they want states controlling that. Feds want to control everything...centralist govt. model.


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## powerplanter (Jun 15, 2011)

If junkies had enough energy they would be growing their drug of choice as well.


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## Herm (Jun 15, 2011)

Roddys view is no way held by most of the people in Michigan by the way.  Just figured I would point that out since it seems kind of batshit crazy.


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## Roddy (Jun 15, 2011)

Sorry to hear this.....my view is that there's a bunch of bad stuff going on that is leading to the lawmakers to review their stance at this time. Just 3 years in and they're already looking to tighten up restrictions on getting the card in Michigan....where my view is unpopular. 

If my view is unpopular, maybe some of you should be reading the news and seeing what's truly going on.....cuz it truly IS batpoo crazy what's going on.

Locally, they've put moratoriums on dispensaries while trying to figure out how best to locate them in their cities...leading thought is to put them in the worst of the worst areas....sad! This means real patients can be forced to brave visiting places even the cops try not to...nice! And can you guess how well the locals will be acting in areas with dispensaries (gangs on corners, crime rampant), and what will be blamed for this supposed increase in criminal activity? There's a thread in this section about a dispensary in a bad area...and how the locals are trying to close it down because of the "crime" and bad behavior.

No, my view may not be popular, but it is happening, sorry I am bringing it to you! Truly, if my view is unpopular, possibly you won't have to worry about it much longer????? I mean, these areas were all for the law, the income from taxes etc enticed them to welcome the first dispensaries...wonder why the change in view?? Bet I can see it.....

But, what IS the opinion held by most people in Michigan, btw?? Sounds like you have an idea??? :rofl:


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## Herm (Jun 15, 2011)

They shouldn't have to decide where dispensary's are suppose to go because under the Michigan law they aren't suppose to exist.


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## Roddy (Jun 15, 2011)

Really? How many have you in your area?? I can visit one within a 15 minutes drive in any direction.


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## tcbud (Jun 15, 2011)

Roddy, I live in California.  The Hippy Dippy State that started this Medical Marijuana thang, now 15 years ago.  There is still NOT ONE Dispensary in my county.  There is still a Moritorium on them.  The supervisors have, I think, 10 more months before they actually have to make a decision as to how many or where they are gonna be (hope you dont have to wait 15 years).  The Supervisors are still trying to decide how many plants can be grown on private property, the whole "care giver" (really means growing for those not present) issue is up in the air.  The next county over is just now been getting some decent dispensary's in the last few years.  So all of California does not have these issues settled yet either, agian, 15 years after the Medical Marijuana Proposition was passed.

No change happens overnight.  Most people think change is bad.  Combine that change with "drugs are bad attitude" and change may be like a mule that dont want to move.  Take enough time, hit it hard enough, that mule will move.  (Please PITA people, it was just an example, from an old mule wrangler)

I am sure Michigan is gonna be fine in time.  Who knows, if it is legalized as most smokers want, all this "Medical MJ" stuff will be moot.  We all hope for that will happen, the sooner the better.

Just my little old 2 cents.


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## Roddy (Jun 15, 2011)

Well, we're watching you and Colorado and.....just like I am sure other states will watch us. Change is good, but not when it's changing for the worse after we've seen so much advancement.....hopefully the trend reverses!

See, we have dispensaries, the first one that opened is right beside the county courthouse property! It's in the same building the judge's offices are in...they were very much accepting of dispensaries when this started up. Now, not even willing to discuss it, it's on the back burner. Meanwhile, there's dispensaries popping up outside the cities that have put in moratoriums, these dispensaries are the main concern of mine at this time, they're the ones employing "drug dealer" tactics to make a buck. These guys are shady and, since there's not a lot of other local dispensaries (and none going in in the near future), the patient is forced to either go to them or find a reputable caregiver. As you may figure, all the good growers had their cards filled fast, leaving a shortage of good AND reputable caregivers...leaving some of the patients even more screwed!


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## NorCalHal (Jun 16, 2011)

I get it now Roddy.

You got your card and could care less about helping other folks in your state to get protected. You WANT them to restrict who can get thier card, because you allready have yours and don't care. 
Cmon man, jump on the team and help protect everyone. Otherwise, your just another hurdle we are going to jump over, your ill informed perception of what MMJ should be.


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## Locked (Jun 16, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> I get it now Roddy.
> 
> You got your card and could care less about helping other folks in your state to get protected. You WANT them to restrict who can get thier card, because you allready have yours and don't care.
> Cmon man, jump on the team and help protect everyone. Otherwise, your just another hurdle we are going to jump over, your ill informed perception of what MMJ should be.




Lol....I hve given up....Roddy is right and we all are wrong. I am not afraid to admit it....:doh:


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## Roddy (Jun 16, 2011)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> I get it now Roddy.
> 
> You got your card and could care less about helping other folks in your state to get protected. You WANT them to restrict who can get thier card, because you allready have yours and don't care.
> Cmon man, jump on the team and help protect everyone. Otherwise, your just another hurdle we are going to jump over, your ill informed perception of what MMJ should be.




How do you get that I want restrictions when I am the one reporting they are coming and why?? Fill me in on what's ill-informed...enlighten me? 

I complained that there's bad dispensaries...there are! I complained there's abuse of the application system, since there's already talk of re-examining, this very well could be true? I complained there's patients being abused, very VERY true!

Hick says this is change and will work itself out, evolve or whatnot, I agree this is in it's infancy stage and only hope we DO evolve and not revert.

And NCH, I respect your views and all, but I'm not out to make tons of money, I am out to give the patients their MMJ...if this is a bad thing, shoot me!  As I said several times, if I EVER break even, I'll consider myself lucky!


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## Roddy (Jun 16, 2011)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> Lol....I hve given up....Roddy is right and we all are wrong. I am not afraid to admit it....:doh:



But we were having such fun.....


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## jc2010 (Jun 16, 2011)

there has been a couple prosecutions in my area for people sellign there overages to card holders. the law states that if you are a patient and grow your own you can not sell it or give it to a fellow card holder. unless you are a registerd care giver. what has happend is our local narcotics team had found an add about overages on craigslist and set the guy up for a delivery and took him down for it. he was charged with a misdameanor instead of a felony but still. i dotn understand why a patient cant trade with another patient


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## Roddy (Jun 16, 2011)

My lawyer told me we were allowed to sell to other card holders as long as we stressed it was to cover costs....if you care to trust that  I think it really comes down to how your county sees it, our county is different than the counties around us.

Advertising on craigslist :doh:


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## Mutt (Jun 16, 2011)

> I am out to give the patients their MMJ...if this is a bad thing, shoot me!


well in the federal system you are a total outlaw. When you sold your first bag to "cover cost" you have distributed and sold which makes you guilty of numerous charges including de-frauding the IRS. Even if you claim them you can't claim it as "money's received for marijuana production". misc. income you might get away with it but better have a great attorney.
You are looking at several years min. Just saying.
Me I would be incarcerated immedietley my son taken and placed into custody, all my accounts frozen, all my assets locked. I would be screwed. That is for "giving" not selling for any price 1 gram to a cancer patient. I do supply two folks. 1 with stage 4 liver cancer and 1 suffering from muscle atrophy due to diabetes.
Thus why you get so many - responses to your posts. Some of us are still front line fighters with more to lose then a "civil disorderly conduct with a night in jail" at a mmj rally.


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## Mutt (Jun 16, 2011)

And one last thing. Cuz this talk is working me up.
Roddy you have no idea or concept of how lucky you are. You want to "follow the laws" and turn your nose up at folks like me. Well hell yeah I was one of those "undesirables" in my teens and early 20's. but I was freakin great at it, you wanted psychedelics, a toot, or some really killer bud I was the guy. No heat, small circles, and everyone knew but wouldn't rat cuz I treat people decent and deals are square deal no bull crap. They also knew when they needed it for the first time after years and years...where EXACTLY to come. If it wasn't for me and my best friend, no one I know would be gettin knock out quality herb. All be that "mids" "kind bud" and what ever else crap they throw around now a days. and I specifically deal with only 30+. Sure beats em hooked on xanax or oxy IMO. 
but that was when I was young. I'm climbing up into that 40 section of life, I don't deal, just provide at a very small scale. when my folks and that gen. started getting older having major health problems. My self presented with some heavy crap that should require me several pills a day....FYI weed makes it so I don't even have to take even an asprin more then 1x-2x a year.
Yet, unlike you even my state wants to crucify a simple poss. Med...HA! your cancer ridden *** goin to jail mentality. (no offense to those suffering from it just systems point of view).
You judge me and so many other middle aged, hard working, trying to live the best we can for going outside of the law. That you fail to see.
YOU ARE ONE OF US. You are commiting a felony RIGHT NOW. This second. You just admitted to a felony under federal law. 
So PLEASE quit judging us man. I don't judge you....but it's gone on for page after page.
Thanks for hearing me out dude. I understand your view, but do show respect where respect is deserved. 
:48:


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