# Help!!!!



## Buddamonk (Nov 26, 2012)

i need help desperately...
The first shot is off one of my babies out from under the hps in regular light.
For 27 days in flower (2.5 months in veg) they look a little stunted to me.
I'm concerned with the yellowing of leaves, and a few are past yellow heading into brittle brown.


The second is of the more heavy yellowing, and the third is of the brittle phase.
all discoloration contained to leaves...please help. i last watered two days ago, so i will be watering in another 1-2 days. I'm guessing my best bet is to flush with regular ph'd water...i run RO with my feedings, do i need to RO my flush water? And by flush, i mean to eliminate salt build up...

Here's a breakdown...

The strain in the pic is a blue berry cutting
I have 8 total under two 1k watt, 27 days flower
2 blueberry
2 papaya
2 Swiss cheese
2 blue chees
Temps have been a steady 70-75 lights on/ 61-64 light off
Ph stays between 6.3-6.5
Ppm steady rises each feed, currently around 700
Feed nutes every 4-5 days as they require h2o
Medium is 3 parts happy frog, 1 part sunshine mix #4
Nute regiment is canna terra line

Just turned heat up hoping to increase temp by 5 degrees 
They are on a concrete slab, inside of a run off pan on top of bricks laying horizontal. Should I maybe raise the bricks to stand vertically and raise the lights? Curious if the roots could be cold.


Also I noticed little black dots on some leaves, sporadic in size, and none were moving-so I threw out the possibilities of mites....any thoughts?


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## jmansweed (Nov 26, 2012)

It sounds like the numbers are where they should be. Hows your air circulation?  Have you grown these stains before? I think turning the heat up is wise. They may be a bit sensitive. 

It looks like they may not be properly absorbing potassium, calcium or magnesium. Not necessarily in that order - but def. "bloom" appropriate nutes imo. This easily can happen if it gets too cold, but by your temps, the room appears to have not dipped that low. Regardless, clearly theres an issue. I worked with Canna some time ago and felt the line can be a bit weak in Calcium, Magnesium which is also indicative of your plants. This is strain dependent from my experience. Some plants do amazing - some want more cal/mag. 

The issues pile a bit when this occurs because these things obviously can change pH also. IMO theres probably enough in your medium - its simply bound up for some reason. Are you using an enzyme formula - cannazyme?

lastly, I find concrete a bit cold and moist to keep pots directly on it. I would raise them off the floor.


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## jmansweed (Nov 26, 2012)

also - do you use any micro nutrient additives?


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## Buddamonk (Nov 26, 2012)

Thanks Jmann...I have been following your posts because they are very informative.....
My air circulation is pretty good, I have had about 3-4 harvests in this room.
I have done these strains before also. One cycle was in the summer that was awful.
The space heater has raised the temps to 66 lights off and 76-78 lights on.
Yes I have the pots on the concrete floor, but they are inside of a drain off saucer, and up on bricks inside the saucer (make sense?)
I have supplemented with cal/mag before from the technaflora line.
I run the entire canna terra line, rhizo, cannazyme, Flores, boost and pk during the appropriate weeks.
And no micro additives. Would u recommend any to use with this line?
Also, I read with interest your nute study.....do you still swear by earth juice? Do you think results are better with earth juice than canna terra?


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## Locked (Nov 26, 2012)

I believe the peeps that run RO water tend to add Cal/Mag to their grows. Especially in flower. Jmo


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## Buddamonk (Nov 26, 2012)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> I believe the peeps that run RO water tend to add Cal/Mag to their grows. Especially in flower. Jmo



Thanks hamster....I was starting to get that.
Is the whole RO route the best way to go then? Would it be more manageable to use tap water that has been sitting for at least 24 hours?


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## Locked (Nov 26, 2012)

I always use tap water that I let sit out for a day. I would think that so long as your tap water does not have a high ppm it would be fine. Jmo


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## jmansweed (Nov 26, 2012)

Hamster is on to something I think - I actually do the same with my water. Bubbled Tap water. For some reason I missed the RO comment earlier. I would add some Cal/Mag myself - and not to state the obvious but the next run I would add it earlier in the cycle as a preventative. 

Saying all that however, I'm not 100% convinced you need to add more anything. Micro-nutrients can sometimes help plants absorb nutrients, or rather, a balance of micro-nutes helps with the absorption of the major nutrients. This is something you would have to experiment with however - the application rates can change depending on strain and often are not needed at all. Many broad based fertilizers contain them already. 

I'd think about the first scenario - add some cal/mag this time - maybe tinker with the ingredients next time. 

Best of luck regardless

and yes, I'm still a bit obsessed with the Juice. I've been slowly shifting to "The Guano Company - Budswell" lately as well. Really solid product. I'm a fan of your nutes - Canna is an excellant line and I would highly recommend it, given price is not an issue. Have you worked with it for some time?


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## Buddamonk (Nov 26, 2012)

Hamster....what ppm count would you consider high? My tap water ppm is 085 and my ph is 6.3....wow...I never really considered how ideal that actually is. Can you elaborate the specific benefit RO provides? I might just stick to letting it sit out over night.

Jmann...so are you saying feed em and just add Calmag to the recipe? I thought it was in my best bet to flush first, and then feed with calmag added and the Flores dropped a bit after the flush. Should 3ml/gl be sufficient?
Yes, I have worked with the canna terra line for about 3 cycles now and I love it. Before I switched to the terra, I experimented with the bio line in coco.....and before that it was about 3 cycles with the technaflora line....but that was a coop, a way of getting my feet wet.


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## Hushpuppy (Nov 26, 2012)

I'm not a soil guy but that looks like the yellowing off that occurs toward the end of a grow when the plants aren't able to get the nitrogen to stay green. I am kind of shooting in the dark here but you say they have been in veg for 10ish weeks, and you mentioned flushing. If they have been in the soil that long and you have flushed them one or more times then I am thinking that the soil is depleted of nitrogen and(assuming that the Canna products are organic) the microbes in the soil are not able to chelate new nitrogen fast enough(or there just aren't enough microbes) to keep up with the needs of the plant.

Just my half-educated soil opinion though


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## Buddamonk (Nov 28, 2012)

Bump


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## 4u2sm0ke (Nov 28, 2012)

reason that peeps let tap water sit for a spell is to allow the chlorine to disapate ..peeps use RO because their tap water has too many addatives in it..and IMO..removes the benificial minerals is why most add nutes....I grow organic and found I dont need anything special...I collect and use rain water...as me buddy Umbra says..."feed the soil...not the plant"

take care and be safe


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## Buddamonk (Nov 28, 2012)

4u2sm0ke said:
			
		

> reason that peeps let tap water sit for a spell is to allow the chlorine to disapate ..peeps use RO because their tap water has too many addatives in it..and IMO..removes the benificial minerals is why most add nutes....I grow organic and found I dont need anything special...I collect and use rain water...as me buddy Umbra says..."feed the soil...not the plant"
> 
> take care and be safe



Thanks 2smoke...I started running a bio line a while back which is why I bought the darn RO...lately with terra tho I'm just not liking the effects the RO is producing....unless anyone has a valid argument, I'm probably gonna pack that thing up and start letting my h2o just sit for a day or two...so 2smoke, are you saying I can achieve "organic" success by simple letting my water sit and then feeding my girls water and nothing else??? Now this sounds interesting....i think i read somewhere where a guy (referenced himself to an old farmer) started a thread trying to dispell the rumor of "needing" pricey nutrients to grow....says he has been doing it for years, just water and love and the occasional found at home remedy.....wish I knew where I found that...


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## pcduck (Nov 28, 2012)

If using R/O in soil you must add cal/mg to every gallon.

Setting water out will not remove chloramine if that is being used instead of chlorine by your municipal water.

Rain water is best.

If soup feeding, sometimes less it better.


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## Locked (Nov 28, 2012)

Just water won't cut it bro....you need to be using organically amended soil to just use water. Even then you need a healthy micro herd to facilitate the feeding part.


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## Buddamonk (Nov 29, 2012)

Pc....hey duck, how much calmag should I be adding to each gl? And what's the best way to find out whether my municipality uses chlorine or chloramine and at what percentage? I will be going to the public works site, but just in case you guys can get me there sooner.

Hamster....yeah I knew there was a reason I hadn't jumped into that pond yet lol. Much much more research to do....kudos friend.


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## pcduck (Nov 29, 2012)

> Pc....hey duck, how much calmag should I be adding to each gl?



I add 10 drops per gallon of Cal/Mg when using R/O water in soil.



> And what's the best way to find out whether my municipality uses chlorine or chloramine and at what percentage?



Just ask your water department for the chemical breakdown of your water and if they use chlorine or chloramine. Some may have a web page with this info and some mail out the info yearly but you can go down anytime and ask for the report.


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## Buddamonk (Nov 29, 2012)

Thanks pc....just came across this blurp and thought I'd share...
Is chloraminated water safe for plants and animals that do not live in water, like my pet dog or cat?

Chloraminated water is as safe as chlorinated water for plants and animals that do not live in water. Chloramine is only dangerous for fish, reptiles, shellfish, and amphibians that take water directly into their bloodstream.

So I guess there is no significant difference between the two.
Hey pc, i have some left over "magical" from technaflora, should that be good enough to throw in with the terra nutes, or is there another brand I should consider? Also, I'm gonna try adding the magical to every feeding, but should I also decrease say the Flores to gain a better ratio for my girls?
I'm about four weeks into flower using canna terra Flores, rhizo, cannazyme, boost and pk with a slight adage of unsulphured molasses...


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## pcduck (Nov 29, 2012)

> So I guess there is no significant difference between the two.



Chlorine will gas off and chloramine will not.

And both are bad  for your plants. They kill the microbes in the soil if growing organic. 

Cannot help you with the techaflora brands or canna terra as I do not use them.

I also do not like mixing different nute lines together. When feeding with chemical nutes I like using General Hydroponics 3 Part, easy and simple do not need all those additives to get great buds. Checkout Hamster Lewis's grows and bud shots.

No need for the molasses as you are using chemical nutes and thus cancelling out any benefits from your organic nutes/additives .


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## jmansweed (Nov 29, 2012)

In my experiences chlorine and more specifically chloramine are extremely detrimental to microbial life. You will experience significantly better growth when they are absent - i assure you. With a solid bubbler, they will off gas with time, chloromine sticking around longer. Chloromine is basically a sanitizer added to our water supply to kill invasive bacteria and harmful pathogens. It is a combination of chlorine and ammonia. The byproducts that occur after these chemicals interact with organic matter are harmful to plants and animals alike. Unfortunately, the bacteria we try to sustain will also suffer. Most studies in regards to this subject are influenced by municipalities. When I lived in NorCal the particular town I was in had a similar study pointing out how benign chloromine in the water supply is - this study was from a controlled test - not conducted in field where unexpected things happen. Like the production of cancer causing  trihalomethanestheone, a byproduct of chloromine and organic waste. One of your most important elements to maintain is quality water.



In regards to


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## jmansweed (Nov 29, 2012)

In regards to the grower using only water throughout his grow - it is entirely possible with rich, amended soil. Typically however, I've found bloom boosters always help things swell in the end.


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