# Newbie question about indoor growing



## IRISHMAN1972 (Jul 20, 2006)

I have about 14 plants that are about 2 inches high.....I just found a 400w mh/hps conversion and would like to know how close to  put this light to the plants?  i'm afraid ill burn them if to close or them getting too scraggly if too far away....please advise (i couldnt find this answer in the online growing guide so im asking here) ..........

danks,
irish


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## KADE (Jul 20, 2006)

It depends on a lot of variables ambient heat/air movement. You are best off starting 1.5-2 feet away and moving it down everyday until u find the right spot. You can also gauge the approximate distance by putting ur hand by the plant top for a minute.. if it feels warm it is too close.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Jul 20, 2006)

ty for the prompt reply!!!!!!!!!!!  THIS PLACE ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

irish


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## astra007 (Jul 20, 2006)

yup no closer then 18" and put a fan to lightly blow across the plants.  you talkin a conversion ballast or a light?  an red spectum light will burn hotter then a blue light.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Jul 20, 2006)

I have 2 bulbs.....a mh and an hps.......is this enough light for 13-16 seedlings?  ventalation and temp are not a problem....i plan on sexing soon...good or bad idea?(these are 2 inches).  And based on your experience.....what % of females should i expect......all seedlings are very happy presently!!!!!!!  Your advice is appreciated........

danks,
Irish~


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## astra007 (Jul 20, 2006)

if ya got 2 normal bulbs then ya need 2 ballasts unless its a conversion 1.  you can veg 13 under a 430 but fer flower, i would do no more then 8 - 9 at maximum per 1 - 430 bulb.  normally i would do 5 under a 400w. this is mounted horizonal with a batwing reflector.

yer plants have to be over 15" tall before you want to start flower to determine sex.  probably need 2 400w ballasts


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Jul 20, 2006)

maybe i was ripped off then....i asked the guy a couple of ?'s in reference to this light and he said all i need to do is switch the bulbs when ready to flower........here is a link to the product......let me know as i havent received the ballast yet.....just the hood and bulbs......the tracking number says the second part(ballast) will arrive tomorrow............

i removed link b/c my question was answered.....tya

danks,
irish


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## astra007 (Jul 20, 2006)

nope, looks like this is 1 of the new lite weight dual ballasts.  and you may have got an excellent deal.  this is a toggle switch ballast enabling you to run either light.  but you should have bought 2.  but remember you still have to sex yer plants.  i would flower no more then 5 max. with this but thats just my opinion; some peeps would say 8.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Jul 20, 2006)

I'll let you know how it works out......thanks again!!!!!!  I'll keep this thread going no later than Sunday w/ pics so you and anyone else can critique my method......i love feedback.....thats how i'm going to learn and experience is key!!!!!!! (from what ive heard)...........

danks


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## skunk (Jul 20, 2006)

in my personal opinion i recomend all newbies to start out with flos or cf  atleast until they learn a  bit about growing marijuana . not to critisize but 14 plants is a big responsibility for the first time . what if there all females? do you know the sq ft you need per plant to flower?  do you know how many lumens you need per square ft ? do you know the right nutes to use and how much you will need ? all i can tell you in this point in time is you better hope only 4 are females because you are gonna have you hands full and space if they are all females . so please do yourself a favor and read the grow guide over and over again and other grow guides to it will take some time . very much luck to you .


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## astra007 (Jul 21, 2006)

my p/o is to start with HD lights and work yer way up.  rule of thumb is 80w per plant or 12,000 lumens.  to learn; is not what this forum is for?  and for us with experience to help?  you can teach the newbies flouro's and i'll teach them HPS or MH.  400W, 600W OR 1000W - i've used them all.  plants can be spaced antwhere from 1 per 3 sq. ft to 1 per 6" sq. depending on the method used to grow.


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## astra007 (Jul 21, 2006)

i started with a sog with 108 plants under 4 lights in tables of soil utilizing the top cola's only  = got 5.5 lbs over 11 weeks.  sativas.


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## ganjabanned (Jul 21, 2006)

A good way to judge how much light you need is this simple rule of thumb: 50 watts HPS per sq/ft.

A 400-watt bulb effectively illuminates 8 sq/ft.
I like to start off with 1 plant per sq/ft. (unsexed).  Once the plants are sexed and the males removed the girls have more room to flower.

You should wait until your plants are sexually mature before you sex.  This occurs at between 3--6 weeks of veg. and is indicated by alternating nodes.  My preferred method is to take clones from each plant, root then sex those.

Luck of the draw--it's been my experience that, out of 100 seeds chosen at random, about 60%--65% will be females.
Some people say there are techniques that increase the ratio of females to males when they are seedlings that involve temps and nutes, but I'm not up on those.
P.S. stress during flowering can turn girls into hermaphrodites or males.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Jul 21, 2006)

Since im kind of in a dilema (14 plants and 1 400watt conversion) do you guys think i should sex them now?????  I remember the last time back in 1997 we sexed at 3-5 inches....that way i could pull all the males and concentrate on the strong females....weed out the weaklings and probably end up w/ 5-8 strong females.  What do you guys think????  I appreciate all feedback received and yes *Skunk* i'm reading alot in the guide and im beginning to figure out you're correct about the number of plants i have going........ty

Irish~


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## Mutt (Jul 21, 2006)

astra007 said:
			
		

> 6" sq. depending on the method used to grow.


 
wow I thought the most you could pack in during flower was 1 plant per sq. ft. max SOG. From what I've read anymore and yeild may suffer.
To be able to pack em in like that is it dependant on strain as well? Also is it hydro or soil your doing this?
Sorry to ask, but I am very curious this sounds like it would be great for me as I only run a 250W for heat and I don't need much herb to begin with. So a tight packed SOG would do me justice.

As for my opinion on sexing. I never fully agreed with re-vegging to determine sex. esp. at week 3-4. Too much stress IMHO. It's easier and less stressful to take a cutting and sex that. I do that and pick out my healthiest females and use them to clone off of and chuck the rest or flower the females I don't want as donors while the other cuttings get rooted and veg for a little while. IMHO.
I veg under florous with average lumen (about 4,000/sq.ft.). helps control the size so I can do more seed starts without getting overgrown. Plus I;ve had better female ratios under florous than an HPS. but for flower. HPS all the way.


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## skunk (Jul 21, 2006)

ps astro i was not recomending flos. for flowering ,only veg . and 50watts persqft and 6000watts per sq ft is more than good if you could even get that much light absorbtion to your plants . it would have to be a sog grow to get 12000 lumens per sqft and not everyone has 1000 watts of power or the space to grow that much at 1 time . 1 400 conversion is all he has to work with and i would not recomend more than trying to flower nomore than 4 at a time with a 400 hps giving giving them 2sqft per plant  then that away you wont have 14 plants with each plant having a problem whether its heat stress ,overfert,underferted,overwatered , ect ,ect just trying to say for a newbie not to get in over his head.


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## astra007 (Jul 21, 2006)

yes skunk, that why i said 5 plants per 400w is what i do and i dont like to force sex.  i wait until plants are 14 - 16" tall in veg and then flip to flower to show sex naturally.  i allow 80w per plant and a minimum or 2 sq.ft. for sativa unless im doing a SOG then you can pack them in; 1 clone every 6" in square containers.  you are looking for the top colas only and sativas are the plants to use.  you actually "rape" or remove all the side materials.


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## Mutt (Jul 21, 2006)

astra007 said:
			
		

> yes skunk, that why i said 5 plants per 400w is what i do and i dont like to force sex. i wait until plants are 14 - 16" tall in veg and then flip to flower to show sex naturally. i allow 80w per plant and a minimum or 2 sq.ft. for sativa unless im doing a SOG then you can pack them in; 1 clone every 6" in square containers. you are looking for the top colas only and sativas are the plants to use. you actually "rape" or remove all the side materials.


 
So you are doing them in 6" containers. I either do a single large one or two if they'll fit. or 1' pots in a SOG. Rape isn't the word I was thinking my first time SOG. more like a machete and "bushwhacking". lol  but I'll have to give the 6" a try and compare weight on the same batch of clones. Thanks man.


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## astra007 (Jul 21, 2006)

a big tip my friend; a 1 gallon container is how deep? and take up 1 sq ft.  so i reduced the amount of the sq footage and increased the DEPTH of the container.  you can use sq pots or 6" circular pipe; 2 - 3 feet deep.

   hehehe - have fun


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Jul 31, 2006)

Im back......this site still ROCKS!!!!!!!!!!!

i need a critique on the looks of our dank...................


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## TURKEYNECK (Jul 31, 2006)

Need some pictures man..upload them through this forum for privacy.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 1, 2006)

ok here are some pics of my 1st solo deal.......anyone wishing to critique me would be great as im just winging this to a point.....also i have one that is discolored.....anyone know what it is???  im awaiting another 400w switchable to add to the one i presently have.......these are WW's and havent been sexed yet.....like i said any advice would be helpful........

danks,
Irish


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## skunk (Aug 1, 2006)

what kinda soil and nutes you using ? look up in this forum sick plants and problems . you will see there you have a few problems from what i see like your ph is way off need to lower . your iron is defiecient. and a couple more i see . i suggest you flush and use distilled water for a week or so . and get your self a ph test kit .  but other than that they look nice and tight.


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## skunk (Aug 1, 2006)

ps it is under HICKS marijuana nutrient disorders trouble shooter. sick plants & problems . gl


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## skunk (Aug 1, 2006)

pss also looks like its time to transplant into bigger containers .


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 1, 2006)

ty....i havent used any nutes and the soil i bought was a simple potting soil w/ food already in the soil.......they have 5 more days until i reeceive the 2nd light and transplant into 8x8x8...now i just cant afford to leave half of them lightless so ill keep them in the solo cups until i receive the new light......i thought it was easy now i have to test everything...lol....i have used distilled water from day 1 to water....these guys were even germinated in distilled water........tya for the advice....i will definately get a ph tester and read up on *HICKS* post.......

ty,
irish


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 1, 2006)

By the way......anyone know what 2 factory made 400 watts will run me per month at 24/7?  is this too much electricity for an apartment?  im also running 2 ac window units 24/7........is this dangerous?  im a rookie and know most of the time if i keep my mouth shut about my garden i'll be ok..............peace


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## astra007 (Aug 1, 2006)

pot them all under the 1 400w fer now - i run 8 - 1000w plus household - bill is 250.00 per month.  2 x 400. is peanuts.  look for pro max hp soil or anything akin that drains,  better soil and more will give ya the trace they need


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 1, 2006)

Look at your first grow as a chance to learn....if you stick with it then everything will start makin' since.  "learn the nature" of the plants. Give 'em what they need....they'll reciprocate.

ps...3 1/2 foot space is ganna be stuffed if they all turn female.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 2, 2006)

thanks alot.....ill be back in a week w/ more pics (once i repot and put under 2 400watters).......ty for everyone's advice to date and peace...............


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## skunk (Aug 2, 2006)

1 400 hps and 2 150cfl, and 8 reg flos 24/0/7= 5,800 btu ac = me about 45 extra dollars a month in my 10x12 storage building. if that helps any.


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## skunk (Aug 2, 2006)

sorry, 8, 4 feet  40 watt reg flos,


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 2, 2006)

*skunk*......lol..........ok im hopefully on the same page as 1 other guy who said peanuts..........i feel better......ty all and pics to come so i can get the bestest best advice anywhere in the world!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

danks,
mickboy


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 3, 2006)

1 more ? about these things........i just topped evy1 so i could stall on my 400w which wont be here until next week.........they dont look nearly as pretty but from what i read/heard it was the right choice.......right?????


rookieboy irish


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## THE BROTHER'S GRUNT (Aug 3, 2006)

*It won't hurt them Irish if anything they will get bushy. They are looking great by the way. *


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 3, 2006)

ty brothers............here are the new pics......razr phone cam sux but gets the job done.........here is what they look like after being lopped 12 hrs later............tya for evy1's advice its the only way im going to learn..........peace


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## astra007 (Aug 3, 2006)

how many times i gotta say yer in VEG and 1 400 will do the job.  now they will bush out.  you dont have to worry until you go to flower on second light and that is 3 weeks off.  GET THEM INTO BIGGER POTS, then 1/4 strenght ferts


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 3, 2006)

ur the shit astra!!!......they will be re-potted on tuesday.........lol.........i love this effing place!!!!!!!!!!!!  should i give them 16/8, 17/7, 18/6, 24/7?  let me know..........i will have the 400w no later than mid next week............astra what do u honestly think about lopping those considering at best ill get 10 strong ladies......those 2 400w can handle bushy bushy's cant they?  

peace

ps....they way i look at it........now that solo 400watter can reach/shine better on the lower shoots........i could be wrong....but like *turkeyneck* said this is my 1st real grow and I need to learn and remember specific things........when is the Calgary stampede?.....lol


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 3, 2006)

oh yeah..you'll have plenty of light. If your space is 3 1/2 ' wide you'll have light coming out of your ears. Looking good though.


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## astra007 (Aug 3, 2006)

18/6 fer now, i think.  that way yer ballast will have cool time and also if ya get a problem you will have a dark time to spray if needed. and yup fer bushies.  calgary stampede - how do i know, im from bc.  think its on now. or soon.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 7, 2006)

Ok guys.......i just re-potted from cups tp 8x8x8 pots........my 2nd switchable is on the way and will be ready by friday......until then i had to re-pot them.....i wanted to wait until the switchable arrived so i wouldnt have to put all of them under a single 400 watter but had no choice as these guys were busting out when i pulled them out of the cups and it was time........its been 12 hrs now and these things look like they grew an inch....lol. How we doing???????


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## KADE (Aug 7, 2006)

they look good, i'm not sure how big u want them to grow.. a coffee can will grow up to 24'' or so maybe a lil more those r about 6 deep and 6 across


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 7, 2006)

I think were planning on 16"-20".......what do you think?  On average w/ WW's what do think i'll yield per?  Hopefully i'll end up w/ at least 8 ladies.........we'll see........peace.

irish


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## KADE (Aug 7, 2006)

Those 8" pots will defiantely be big enough for plants of that size. I'd say 8 plants would be a good number too. Hopefully more! I always have bad luck w/ seeds myself tho. When I'm growin on hydro tables 8 24" plants when switching to 12/12 typically yeild just over an ounce each. So just over half a pound on every 8 plants.


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## dap621 (Aug 7, 2006)

Some people are offended by them but I am a huge stoner and I find them amusing.


EDIT by Mod: Sorry but we dont allow SPAM.


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## skunk (Aug 7, 2006)

you know the only thing good that came out of an astro was nolan ryan. did you git that astro? anyways i hear the chickens coming around the corner myself so shut up . however when talking about the widow that is my and a few other peoples specialty in this forum . i always myself transplant them into 5 and 7 and now 30 to 40 gallon containers . but the rule of finger is half gallon per ft plant height . with myself using bigger pots is to aquire larger stock to handle more massive buds because the ww is a shorter height growing strain. but i need few more weeks to confirm this and will post pic as soon as i feel like messin with camera again .just be prepared for a few males with your clan.


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## KADE (Aug 7, 2006)

Yeah, definately keep an eye out for the males. They show up real quick. Very easy to tell the difference tho. Either will be little balls or little hairs, or little hairs and balls.


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## astra007 (Aug 7, 2006)

yes please come back in a few weeks to comfirm this and take a valium as well.  irish and i have been talkin here for quite some time and pm'ing back and forth.  do you think yer the only person who has grown the widow?  now i really need a mod here to deal with goons like you.  you deliberately misspell my nic, you are arrogent and rude.  who's ryan, your stage name?

40 gallon container = 20' tall white widow;  ya got a pic?


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## rockydog (Aug 7, 2006)

lookin good so far, Keep it up and keep listening to these guys. They know their stuff


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 7, 2006)

Thanks again everyone!!!!!!!!  Your advice is awesome..........more pics on the way in about 5 days!!!!!!!  By the by...........when you have a forum there are always going to be disagreements....thats what make this place so cool......everyone has a special way of doing things and i pick and choose the advice that best relates to me.......keep the advice coming guys!!!!!!!!!

irish~


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## skunk (Aug 7, 2006)

astro i think you need  re read my reply, as i said myself and a  few other people in this forums specialty was ww . um let me see here stoney bud , hick,weedog,brothersgrunt, and a few others should i name more? and ok i can deal with being arrogant and mispelling your name but what does that make you? as i recall calling me skink a few times and stinky and um um um um goons  um um what  else now let me think and ill git back to ya on that 1 .  
but  havent you ever heard of someone tell a corny joke and you tell them i hear the chickens coming around the corner   . well that corny joke was on me that is why i said shut up didnt want to hear it.  ww  i doubtfully would ever get 20' in 2 years .


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 7, 2006)

lol.................u guys kill me.................lol

irish

p.s. forums are gr8!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

astra....nolan ryan was probably the best Major League pitcher ever!!!!!!!!!  Played for a chitty team called Houston Astros........but he threw the fastest heat ever!!!!!  Peace.


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## astra007 (Aug 8, 2006)

you got a weird sense of humor. slightly twisted, but humor. ok, maybe i dont like being called astro, so why do you keep doing it?  and i've grown white widow - dutch passions  and easy ryder and ingmar's punch.  you got an exclusive on this thread?


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 8, 2006)

C'mon guys kiss and make up.....seriously......I'm a rookie when it comes to growing dank nugs (but learning).  When it comes to smoking,  however i know alot.......we all have the opportunity to grow, share and puff........i have learned things from both you guys...........lets all be smoking buddies.......we dont need to degrade each other.....although *skunks* reply had me pissing in my pants.......i like all advice and the way i see it you guys are helping me do what needs to be done..........

ty again,

I~


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## astra007 (Aug 8, 2006)

skunk is ok - just hard to figure out.  but kiss? hardly  i'll pass the puff instead


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## Hick (Aug 8, 2006)

I think..._*skink*_ and *astro* are being a li'l over sensetive here. And/or pokin' at each other with a 'pointy' stick. Let's give it up, ehh.
  Irish is asking and getting good advic without the banter.
thanks.."H*u*ck"..


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## TURKEYNECK (Aug 8, 2006)

hahahah *"Turkeybone"* Whats up Irish..those babies are probably ready for a little LST. Lets see some pictures.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 8, 2006)

look up at post #41 turk.........i snapped the pics yesterday.....let me know what u think......peace


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 9, 2006)

Ok guys.....finally received the new 400 switchy!!!!!!!!  Everything is solid so far and we're super happy(thx to every1 here!!).  We are hooking it up as we speak......more pics to come.

ps i have to wear sunglasses in the room.........lol.
ty,
irish


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## KADE (Aug 9, 2006)

haha your right, imagine a 1000watt light! lol


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## astra007 (Aug 9, 2006)

2 - 400w = sunglasses.  wait till he walks into my room with 6 - 1000w HPS horizontal mounted with reflectors = blinders?


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## KADE (Aug 10, 2006)

I find a person gets used to it tho. When I first started I had the ole sunglasses... now I walk in like nothing is different


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 10, 2006)

LOL....i hear ya......Turk, your going balls out huh?  6 1000 watters....WOW.........I cant imagine it...............

Irish~


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## KADE (Aug 10, 2006)

I'd love to see that in one room... be quite the glorious occasion! lol... I got a buddy that has 15 (5 apartments w/ 3 1000hps in each one.. climate control/co2 the works)... impressive for sure.. but nothing like having it all in the same room.


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## astra007 (Aug 11, 2006)

i got 2 rooms.  1 has 6 lights and 1 has 3 lights.  i call them I and S, dont know why.


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## IRISHMAN1972 (Aug 13, 2006)

OK GUYS........its been about 7 days since our last pics and I think were doing ok.......i just like reassurance!!!!!!!.........there is a water issue were having but hopefully will work it out (i have gotten advice already on this issue on another thread).........should we lop them off again???  Were planning on flowering at or about 20".......were half way there and have the room for about 8 bushy ladies......as of right now we have 12 strong and 2 weak.......obviously not knowing the sex as of yet........these guys are were germinated about 6 weeks ago...............Peace..............

I~


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## astra007 (Aug 13, 2006)

lookin good my friend


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## AeroTX (Aug 13, 2006)

indeed, have you tried tarantula? It's by Advance and has turned some of three of my plants from dying and wilting, to now having beautiful buds, and almost ready for the pickin'!


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## KADE (Aug 13, 2006)

Advanced Nutrients has many different ''animal'' named products that help boost resistances and whatnot in plants. They make a solid product.


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