# DIY 5 gallon Waterfarm system



## DonJones

It has been noted in PMs that there is little if any information on using the WaterFarm combination aerated drip/DWC growing system produced by General Hydro.  The advantage of this combination system over either a DWC or a drip hydro is that it gives the growth speeds of drip hydro and the safety of a DWC because once the roots are into the standing solution, the plant can survive for several days without the pump running in the event of a power outage or pump failure.  I will try to do a step by step thread documenting how I set up a one bucket system with a minimal investment.  *The only reason I'm doing it myself rather than buying a complete individual bucket system is to keep the cost down and use buckets that I have lying around.  Everything that I do can be done easier and quicker by just buying the complete system and following the assembly instructions that come with the system.  I have NO problems with the factory systems and in fact recommend buying them that way if you can afford it. *

Please be patient because this will be definitely a work in progress in as close to real time as possible.

First I purchased the GH WaterFarm KIT which consists a combination drain tube and solution level indicator with a grommet; a support column tube that goes through either the bucket lid or a net pot lid; a siphon/pump tube with an attached 1/4" clear air hose; an 8" drip ring with a tee fitting for $15.00US.  Then I bought a 10" net pot lid for under $5.00US, for a total of less than $20.00US.  You also need an air pump but I don't know how big of an air pump you need.  I'm using one that is rated for a 212 gallon tank but that is over kill.  Irish uses one in his DWC from WalMart that is rated for 30 to 60 gallon tanks that he said is less than $10.00.

There are NO instructions with the kit.  *However you can download the instructions for assembling a complete factory WaterFarm unit at hxxp://www.generalhydroponics.com/genhydro_US/instructions/WaterFarm_instructions.pdf  and use those instructions.  I strongly urge you to download and study those instructions before deciding to attempt to build this system.*  It is very simple but you must have some DIY skills and a drill, a 13/16"drill bit, a 1/4' drill bit and the usual hand tools.  The main difference from what the instructions tell you to do is that the factory bucket already has the holes drilled but you will have to drill the holes.  This is not very difficult but *it is critical that you get clean round smooth holes of the correct size or the unit will leak.* If you aren't sure of your ability to drill these holes properly, then I suggest you either have someone else drill them for, just do not use the drain/level tube or you can buy one of the complete units which will be significantly more expensive than buying the kit and using your own bucket.

Suitable buckets can be purchased an Home Depot and Lowes for under $3.00 but they may not be as light proof as some say they should be. Black buckets in both 3 and 5 gallon sizes can usually be purchased at garden centers and/or hydro shops, but the prices will vary. Another source is cat litter buckets, plastic paint buckets and sometimes square bucket that various food ingredients came in.  *WHAT EVER SOURCE YOU USE FOR THE BUCKETS MAKE SURE THEY ARE ABSOLUTELY SPOTLESSLY CLEANED BEFORE USE.*

The drain/solution level indicator tube goes through the grommet which is placed through a 13/16 hole through the side of the bucket placed as near to the bottom of the bucket as possible while still letting the grommet not quite touch the bottom.  Near the top of the bucket a U shaped clip goes through a 1/4" hole near the top of the bucket and the drain/level tube clips into it to hold it up and out of the way. *CAUTION --GH's instructions says this is designed for use with flat sided (square) buckets only.* Use of the drain/level tube is NOT necessary to the functioning of the system but is an added convenience only.  I will attempt to use the grommet on one of my round paint buckets to see if it will leak or not.  If it does leak I'm not out any money because I'm using discarded paint buckets.

Then you must drill a hole through the lid for the support column to slide down through.  The support column is cut at an angel on the bottom so that you can push it all the way to the bottom of the bucket and still have solution flow freely into it.  Then the venturi/pump tube with its attached air hose slides down inside of the support column, *with the brown venturi fitting with the air hose attached pointing down.*  (The purpose of the support column is so that should the venturi/pump assembly need cleaning it can be removed and reinserted without disturbing the roots.)  Then the drip ring tee slips over the *bare* end of the venturi/pump tube.  You will have to make a hole for your net pot in the lid unless you use a net pot lid.   Because the drip ring is approximately 8" in diameter, I used a 10" net
pot lid.   

Now that you know what we will be doing, I will start posting individual steps with pictures for each step.  That will start later tonight or maybe even tomorrow.

Be brave and PATIENT please.  It is a lot simpler than it sounds.

Good Smoking everyone!


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## DonJones

The first thing to do is to lay out all of the components, assemble them and check for fit.  

When I tried to insert the venturi/pump assembly through the support column, I found the support column too small inside diameter ( it would disconnect the air hose while inserting the assembly through the support tube) so I cut a piece of 1" poly-pipe the same length as the supplied support column.  Later I discovered that by moving the bottom clip holding the air hose to the venturi/pump tube close to the pump fitting it pulled the hose in close enough that it would slip through the support column without interference, however there was very little clearance so I used the larger poly-pipe as insurance against a problem once it was in use.

*Put the bare square end of the white 1/2" rigid tube for the venturi/pump column into the open end of the TEE on the drip ring.* Do NOT try to insert the angled end of the venturi/pump fitting into the TEE because it will NOT fit nor will the venturi/pump work properly in that position.

The first picture is all of the components laid out on the right side of the picture with the 5 gallon bucket and 10" net pot lid on the left.  The second picture is the drip ring installed on the pump assembly and the venturi end inserted partway into the new support tube.  The third picture shows just the drip ring, TEE and pump column assembled with the brown venturi fitting with the white tube and the clear air tubing on the end that goes down into the bucket.

Then next step will be installing the support column though the net pot lid.

Good smoking!


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## DonJones

The next step is to insert the support column through the net pot.  There are a couple of ways to do it.  One that my mentor uses is to slit the side of the net pot from top to bottom, insert the support column through the slit so that the top is inside the pot and the bottom is outside of the pot, then "lace the side of the pot back together".  Personally I feel that method weakens the pot.  The method I prefer and used here is to cut 2 or 3 of the circular strips out between 2 of the radial spoke like pieces so that you have a hole in the bottom of the pot immediately against the outside edge of the bottom of the pot that your support column just fits through the hole.  BEFORE SECURING THE SUPPORT COLUMN IN PLACE INSERT THE PUMP TUBE THROUGH THE SUPPORT COLUMN TO INSURE THAT IT WIL SLIDE IN AND OUT EASILY. If it is too tight, you either have to get a large support column (1"poly-pipe works great) or if the hole is small enough that it is distorting the support column , then enlarge the cut the hole in the bottom of the pot until the pump assembly slides through it freely.  Then secure the support column to the side of the pot near the top.  If it is wobbly and loose at the bottom, then secure it there too.  After ensuring that the lid will snap in place and the support column is nearly touching the bottom of the bucket, then tighten up your securing pieces.  I personally prefer using plastic cable ties because they are inert and if they are the black ones they are UV resistant so you should never have to worry about them coming undone.

Well, ladies and gentlemen, that is all there is to it. unless you want to install the drain/level tube.If you buy the single complete units from General Hydro, you will only have to insert the grommet through the 13/16" hole in the side near the bottom, then insert the retaining clip through the 1/4" near the top, insert the drain/level tube elbow fitting through the grommet and the free end of the tube through the retaining clip at the top. 

Now all you have left is to insert your rooted clone or seeding into your choice of growing media, fill the bucket with water or nutrient solution.  Hook your air source to the 1/4" air hose coming out of the support column clipped to the pump tube and turn the pump on. In a very short time you should see water/solution dripping out of the holes in the drip ring.  Most users fill the bucket by pouring the solution through the media and watching the level in the drain tube on the side.

The first picture is the support column inserted through the hole cut in the  bottom of the pot and secured to the side of the pot.  The second picture is the completed WaterFarm kit installed in the 10" net pot lid and the lid on the bucket.

If there are any questions, please just ask.  If I don't know the answer, some one else will either know it or someone will find it for you.

Incidentally, my mentor runs a piece of 1/4" air hose through the side of the pot or the area between the buck and the edge of the pot down ot the bottom of the bucket and uses an air stone there to increase the oxygen level in the solution so the roots hanging into the solution will also have lots of oxygen.

It seems to be the consensus here on the forum that you should either use a black bucket, tape it with a light proof tape or paint it black or dark gray to lessen the amount of light that gets into your solution and to the roots.  However, Hick says he has used yellow, orange, white, gray and black with no difference in results, so take your choice.  I'm pretty sure that I'm going to try using the drain tube assembly and painting the bucket black with Krylon Fusion spray paint especially for plastic.

Good smoking!


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## IRISH

whew. i read that entire thing DJ. . Bravo 'ol chap. i :clap: you bro on the great tutorial. i also applaud you on the way you researched the system you wanted to use, by asking alot of questions. sorry if my point came across vague at times, but i'll blame it on the top notch smoke we've been growing over here in our buckets.  ...

now, i can't wait to see you turn this system into a great harvest. . what are you going to be growing first?...Irish...


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## cmd420

WAY TO GO DJ!!

Nice melding of the two types of systems...

It looks as if you basically replaced the inner bucket of the Waterfarm with a mesh pot bucket....do I have that right?

Are you going to feed from the top down with the drip rings?

Did you decide on a medium yet?


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## DonJones

Irish,

Thank you. 

Your instructions in your thread were clearer than my questions made it seem.  I just try to completely understand some thing before I start and screw it up.  

As you can tell, basically all I'm doing is adding the WaterFarm type drip ring feeding to your DWC system.  I can't take credit for that approach.  Basically I have just taken GH's WaterFarm system, simplified it and made it practical for using with separate bucket system.  

Also my local mentor has been doing it for quite a while.  Before I got a chance to actually see his grow operation he disappeared off of the radar.  I located one of the kits and began looking at it to see what I could build and what I would have to buy.  I also went to GH's website and studied their information until I thought I understood the theory behind it.  The more I learned the better I liked it.  It was marvelously simple, inexpensive, low maintainence and combined the best features of both the drip feed and DWC systems. I decided I could make everything except for the siphon assembly where the air hose connects into the pump tube.  Everything seems to be standard drip ring type fittings and tubing except for that piece.  If you can find someone who will order or stock them for you, you can buy the siphon/pump assembly as a replacement part from General Hydro.  If I could obtain the actual fitting itself then I could even make the pump assembly. 

I'll post a close up picture of the siphon assembly and attempt to explain how it works either later tonight or tomorrow.

Good smoking guys.


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## DonJones

cmd420,

You could say that if by the "inner bucket" you mean the top one that is basically a square net pot lid for their square buckets.  I perfer to put it as adding an air powered siphon type pump feed drip ring to they 5 gallon DWC bucket.  One of the best features of this is it is simple, self contained and easy to maintain, lets you move each individual plant (I am considering at some point in the future trying growing 2 autos in the same bucket but not for awhile) between veg and flower rooms --plus most importantly to me, it separates each bucket form the others in the event some kind of disease gets into the hydro part of the plant.  Those two things, the sharing of the nutrient solution and the difficulty in switching any thing less than the entire bed  were the two things that really made me very leery of going hydro, which is what I really wanted to do all along.

I haven't made my mind up on a growing medium yet.  I don't know how important then slow release of silica is to the plants.  None of the nute brands that I have seen even mention silica and our water analysis shows zero silica, so I'm leaning towards the Higromite/silica stone medium.

That brings up another topic -- I "found a new" medium that has actually been on the market at least 2 years when I was checking with FHD on their recommendations were for their nutes.  They are selling a product called Sure To Grow that seems to be basically a neutral PHed chemically inert instantly wettable organic replacement for rockwool.  If you are interested, I get either some more information or at least links for you.  I may post it under the hydro forum.

Back to your question of what I'm going to grow in it -- I haven't a clue.  I'm torn between buying known seeds from a reputable seed bank and cloning them so that I KNOW exactly what I've got instead of relying on my sources of clones to know accurately what they have versus continuing to rely on local sources of clones.

If I go the seed route, I will probably grow at least one crop of a local unknown variety that a friend's mom grows.  It is unknown because she was growing outdoors a variety that my friend doesn't know what was (this all happened several years ago) and the whole crop got pollinated with an unknown pollen.  She kept the seeds because it was the strain that she wanted to keep, so she tried planting them.  They turned out to be what sounds a lot like purple kush to me -- I haven't seen it grow because his mom & step dad are guerrilla growers and don't want anyone outside of the immediate family knowing where and when they are growing.  Anyway she has a couple of 3lb coffee cans full of seeds so he got me around 60 to 70 seeds AND a sample of the smoke that he was supposed to bring to me BUT THE TRAITOR SMOKED IT BEFORE HE GOT HERE!  Boy some people have no self-control.

His mom grows outdoors during hte summer and his step-dad grows them indoors during the winter.  They are getting great yields from simple old school techniques and he says it ranks right up there with the best pot he has ever smoked, and he lived in Humbolt County, CA for several years so that is probably pretty good company that he is comparing it to.

Personally I don't care what variety a plant is if it is easy to grow, gives good yields and I like the smoke, so depending upon how it turns out, it may become my main variety. 

Once I get a medium chosen, a suitable clone and an air pump, I'll try to keep and post a grow journal, but I'll give you and Irish heads up on it so you can follow it.


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## Growdude

Very nice Don Jones.

This is not unlike the real waterfarm at all except you are going to use an air stone as well.

From my experience with the waterfarm the roots grow right down thru the bottom of the "inner bucket" every time. But I have never needed the airstone because the constant pumping of air to the drip ring.

Once my plants are established and roots are growing into the bottom bucket I let the drip ring drip constantly 24\7.

I do like the fact you have round pots so one could rotate the plant but even the square pots allow you to move the plants whenever you want.

Are you planning to inner connect them to a centeral rez?

I like the centeral rez with a recirculating pump so that I can check PH without having to lift any of the buckets off.

Either way your really going to like your new system.

P.s. I was going to suggest hydroton as a medium its worked very well for me and is reusable.


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## DonJones

The siphon pump assembly is the miracle component that make practical the merging of the drip ring feeding method and the DWC hydro system.

For those of you that may not be familiar with the drip feed method and/or the DWC hydro method, I'll briefly explain them

The drip method of watering and feeding is very simple.  It takes pressurized water or nutrient solution and forces into a drip mechanism which dispenses a small amount of solution at  a time through a series of small holes in a tube or through a drip stake.  It is very simple but has the disadvantage of requiring a pressure source and being subject to the drip holes/stakes clogging up.  This is made worse by it being a low pressure system that is incapable of forcing any debris or build up out of the system.  The main advantage of a drip system, especially in a hydro system, is that as the solution drips down from the perforated drip tube it picks up oxygen from the air and carries it to the roots as it drains through the grow media.  This enables the plant to grow very fast partially because the highly oxygenated solution enables the roots to absorb and process the nutrients better

The Deep Water Cycle system is one where the solution is maintained in a rez that the roots dangle down into.  It is probably the simplest hydro system there is.  However the roots are not exposed to air at anytime, so the solution must be kept oxygenated at all times or the roots basically suffocate and develop root rot.  The most common way to solve this is to force low pressure compressed air into the solution, usually through an air stone or a bubbler like fish tanks use.  However some people just secure the end of the supply hose in the bottom of the rez and let the air just bubble through the end of the hose.  The advantage of the air stone is that it makes more smaller bubbles which increases the oxygenation of the solution but the disadvantage over the other 2 methods is because the passages in the air stone are much smaller, they will plug up easier, although that is not a real common occurrence with even the crudest filters on the air intake.

The WaterFarm system combines the advantages of both systems by dripping the highly oxygenated solution through the air and draining it through the roots inside the media and running down along the exposed roots that have grown out through the pot and are hanging down in the bucket/bed.  As those roots reach the solution in the bucket/bed they add the continuous exposure to the solution that  DWC has.  So now you have the faster growth of a drip/aero system in the top part of your bucket/bed along with the continuous immersion of the lower roots in the solution like in a DWC system with the added advantage that in the case of a power failure or blockage of the drip system, the plants will NOT dry out but will continue to thrive until the solution becomes stagnate and oxygen starved, which takes a lot longer than for the roots to dry out when the drip method stops working.

Normally this would require an aeration system to oxygenate the solution in the rez and another liquid pump system to force the aerated solution through the drip mechanism.  This were the WaterFarm system is so ingenious!  It uses the pressurized air that you already have to have to oxygenate the solution to not only aerate the solution but to also "pump" the solution through the drip system where it becomes ever more aerated.

It does this by using a siphon like fitting that is hooked to the drip ring and the air pump and is submerged in the solution in the rez.  The picture shows this fitting on the right end of the pump column tube with the clear air hose fasten to the fitting also.  Because the fitting is submerged several inches into the solution, the solution is forced up the tube until it is the same level as the solution in the rez. When the air pressure is applied to the clear air hose air flows down the air hose and into the bottom of the column of solution trapped in the pump tube.  The escaping air forms a bubble across the entire tube.  Because the air bubble is lighter than the solution it tries to escape up the tube, but because it has the entire tube blocked, the bubble lifts the trapped solution up the tube and out into the drip ring where the already highly oxygenated solution drips back through the air picking up even more oxygen and into the grow media.  There the highly oxygenated solution washes through the media and roots cleaning any harmful impurities or waste products from the plant's growing cycles away and bathing the roots with clean super oxygenated solution.  The solution continues to drain down into the rez where it releases its trapped air/oxygen into the rest of the solution in the rez where the long roots are growing in the rez itself like a DWC system.  Now you have one thing, the pressurized air, both pumping the solution through the drip system and aerating the rez without the added liquid pump for the normal drip system.  Its actually simpler than it sounds even.

A not so widely known and used "secret" is to add an air stone to the rez to make it bubble vigorously causing the rez to become a bubbler system in addition to the normal DWC system and the drip system. Now you actually have combined three systems into one --the DWC, the drip and the bubbler aeroponics systems with at least theoretically even greater growth.  This all accomplished with one air pump of sufficient volume to both pump the solution through the drip ring and also cause the solution in the rez to bubble vigorously.

That leaves one other issue to be concerned about-- if your air pump fails for whatever reason you have lost all of your aeration and solution dripping onto the upper exposed roots.  A partial solution to that issue is to use 2 separate air pumps and systems -- one to power the siphon pump drip part of the solution and the other one to power the bubbler aero and DWC aeration systems.  Using the second air pump and distribution system means that to endanger your plant you have to have 2 sets of pumps go down.  Now unless you you have uninterruptable /backup power systems
you are down, but then again so is your lighting system so you just need to pray for no power outages.  Good air pumps don't fail very often so it is up to the grower to decide if that risk is great enough to justify the added expense of the second pump.  Because I intend to eventually have enough buckets running to need 2 pumps anyway, I plan on using one pump for the aeration system and the other for the WaterFarm pump system rather than one pump for both systems in half of the buckets and the other pump for the other half of the buckets.  I also intend to have a spare pump on hand in case one fails.

Hopefully I haven't confused you, but if I have jst ask and I'll try to clarify it.

Good smoking.


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## Growdude

Ive also found that the drip ring is not what clogges, but what can is the air line right where it connects to the siphon tube.

You will also find that its not an end all if the drip ring stops, ive had plants that either the bucket went dry or the air line got pinched or plugged for several days without any problems.

Im not sure how your system makes any difference once the power goes out.


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## DonJones

Growdude,

Thank you for your input.  I appreciate your appreciation.  I'm just hoping that someone out there can profit from my experience and enjoy the WaterFarm system as inexpensively as they need.  

Yes, all I have done is buy the only part of the WaterFarm system that I couldn't build myself and combine it with locally available inexpensive buckets and net pot lids to keep the cost down, then add the air stone for redundancy, safety and possibly a little faster growth, but mainly for the first two.  

How does the centralized rez work? Does it just top the buckets off or does it recirculate from the buckets back into the central rez?  How does it control the level of the solution in the buckets?  I could probably find the answers in the GH website, but I just wasn't interested in that when I was researching there because I was only interested in individual bucket systems so I could add them one at a time as money became available.

I'm going to use separate systems for each bucket, at least until I'm a lot surer of myself than I am now, to hopefully keep any waterborne/root disease confined to one plant and also to hopefully isolate any nutrient errors that I make to just part of my crop.

As to the PH/ppm issue, IF I can use the WaterFarm drain/solution level indicator tube on my round buckets, then all I'll have to do to check the solution is to drain a little bit of the solution into a container and use my meter to check it. Depending upon how high the solution is in the tube and how long the probe is, I may be able to just put the probe into the tube.

You mentioned that after the roots have grown through the bottom of the pots you run the air pump 24/7.  What cycle do you use before they grow through the bottom of the pot?

How high in relation to the bottom of the pot/lid do you keep your solution?  

Also, is it practical to sprout seeds or root clones directly into the WaterFarm system?  If so how do you do that?

As to the grow medium, how do you transplant bare rooted clones from cloning machines into the Hydroton without damaging the roots?  Am I correct that you plant the seedling/rootling directly into the pot that you will keep it in until harvest time?

At least for the first grow in the system, I will probably use the Hydroton (or at least generic clay balls depending upon local availability) but as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is a cellulose based organic grow media available that seems to have all of the pros and none of the cons of rockwool that I'm checking into, at least for sprouting and rooting clones.  If I use it then the transplanting will not be a problem.

The only reason I'm using round buckets and net pot lids is because I have the buckets already lying around.  I think once I run out of the round buckets, I may start buying the cat litter in square bucket instead of bags and use the square buckets.

My system doesn't help at all if the power goes out, but since the lights will be out too, any long term power outage will pretty much wipe me or anyone else out.

How do the air lines plug up and where at?  Is it because the air pump sucks up dust and then when the air hits the solution, the dust turns to mud and eventually plugs the siphon fitting?  I wonder if taking a large automotive air cleaner and hooking it up to an inlet into an air tight box with the airpumps sitting inside of the box would help keep the air hoses from plugging up -- what do you think?  Actually I could just take a large ring type air cleaner, sandwich it between two pieces of plywood or sheet metal with the pump sitting inside of the closed in cylinder.  Depending upon which particular element that I used, I could even put 2 pumps inside of one filter assembly.  We used to remote filter our shop air compressors that way -- run a hose from the intake of the compressor to an outside wall and put it through a hole in the wall, then screw the bottom piece of the air cleaner housing to the wall with the hose running into the carburetor opening, put the element in and fasten the upper cover to the housing to close it up.  It sure seemed to make the compressor last longer and run quieter.

Good smoking every one!


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> Growdude,
> 
> Thank you for your input.  I appreciate your appreciation.  I'm just hoping that someone out there can profit from my experience and enjoy the WaterFarm system as inexpensively as they need.
> 
> 
> 
> How does the centralized rez work? Does it just top the buckets off or does it recirculate from the buckets back into the central rez?  How does it control the level of the solution in the buckets?  I could probably find the answers in the GH website, but I just wasn't interested in that when I was researching there because I was only interested in individual bucket systems so I could add them one at a time as money became available.
> 
> 
> 
> You mentioned that after the roots have grown through the bottom of the pots you run the air pump 24/7.  What cycle do you use before they grow through the bottom of the pot?
> 
> How high in relation to the bottom of the pot/lid do you keep your solution?
> 
> Also, is it practical to sprout seeds or root clones directly into the WaterFarm system?  If so how do you do that?
> 
> As to the grow medium, how do you transplant bare rooted clones from cloning machines into the Hydroton without damaging the roots?  Am I correct that you plant the seedling/rootling directly into the pot that you will keep it in until harvest time?
> 
> At least for the first grow in the system, I will probably use the Hydroton (or at least generic clay balls depending upon local availability) but as I mentioned in an earlier post, there is a cellulose based organic grow media available that seems to have all of the pros and none of the cons of rockwool that I'm checking into, at least for sprouting and rooting clones.  If I use it then the transplanting will not be a problem.
> 
> The only reason I'm using round buckets and net pot lids is because I have the buckets already lying around.  I think once I run out of the round buckets, I may start buying the cat litter in square bucket instead of bags and use the square buckets.
> 
> My system doesn't help at all if the power goes out, but since the lights will be out too, any long term power outage will pretty much wipe me or anyone else out.
> 
> How do the air lines plug up and where at?  Is it because the air pump sucks up dust and then when the air hits the solution, the dust turns to mud and eventually plugs the siphon fitting?  I wonder if taking a large automotive air cleaner and hooking it up to an inlet into an air tight box with the airpumps sitting inside of the box would help keep the air hoses from plugging up -- what do you think?  Actually I could just take a large ring type air cleaner, sandwich it between two pieces of plywood or sheet metal with the pump sitting inside of the closed in cylinder.  Depending upon which particular element that I used, I could even put 2 pumps inside of one filter assembly.  We used to remote filter our shop air compressors that way -- run a hose from the intake of the compressor to an outside wall and put it through a hole in the wall, then screw the bottom piece of the air cleaner housing to the wall with the hose running into the carburetor opening, put the element in and fasten the upper cover to the housing to close it up.  It sure seemed to make the compressor last longer and run quieter.
> 
> Good smoking every one!



I think this write up is great and if I had to do it over I would make my own.

I did build my own recirculator, though there is one that works off an air pump available from GH.
Mine is just a pump with the inlet at the bottom of the first bucket and pumps back into my rez.

here is a thread with some pictures http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32700

Now the air line can plug right where it connects to the Y fitting on the syphon tube. It seems to get plugged with residue or nute build up even though no nutes are in there.
If you do see what I mean and find a solution it would be great, I dont think its from the air inlet.

When I transplant clones into the farms I just leave the bucket empty about 4" or so from the top. Then plac the clone in an hold it while I bury the roots in hydroton, very easy and stress free.

If I want to start a seed I germ it then place in rock wool, once it sprouts out I bury the rock wool in the hydroton close to the drip ring so it keeps the rock wool moist. I use 1 hour on 1 hour off in the beginning and when starting a seed.   

Again great right up


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## snaxforgandhi

Wow! Solid Tute brother!

~Snax (He Who Lurks)


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## DonJones

Growdude,

So I could clone into something like Rockwool or foam and after they root, just put the rockwool or foam on top of the lower layer of Hydroton, then carefully cover up the hydroton until I get near the first set of leaves on the clone, correct?

I'm waiting for 2 things right now before getting my WaterFarm running; first the money to buy the air pump and second a suitable clone or seedling (all of my current crop of clones are in Black Gold and I don't really want to chance getting the BG into the drip ring or damaging the roots by washing the BG off of the roots when I transplant it).

I'll start a grow journal when I'm ready to start the waterfarm up.  However, either expect it to be over kill with details or very limited on details, because I seldom seem to strike a even balance between the two extremes.

Growdude, 
I'll keep and eye out on the plugging up thing and see if a I can find a solution.  Have you contacted GH customer support to see what they say about it?  They might have some helpful information.  Does the stuff that plugs it up look like hard water build up or more like a dirt build up?

Good smoking everyone!


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## cmd420

Yo DJ...

In your earlier post:

"That brings up another topic -- I "found a new" medium that has actually been on the market at least 2 years when I was checking with FHD on their recommendations were for their nutes. They are selling a product called Sure To Grow that seems to be basically a neutral PHed chemically inert instantly wettable organic replacement for rockwool. If you are interested, I get either some more information or at least links for you. I may post it under the hydro forum."


Let me know for sure brother...I'm _over_ Hydroton...it's a pain and it hurts when you step on it (just ask DirtyOlSouth)...

Hit me up when you get closer to setttin it up and I'll share with you what I know about the rez controller and whether to use it at all or not...

Nice job so far dude..I am curious and hopefull about your grow.... if your _this_ thoughtful with your preparations, your plants will probably be psyched when you get em going...right on


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> Growdude,
> 
> So I could clone into something like Rockwool or foam and after they root, just put the rockwool or foam on top of the lower layer of Hydroton, then carefully cover up the hydroton until I get near the first set of leaves on the clone, correct?



Exactly what I do. I wait till there well rooted then transplant.


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## DonJones

What size of Rockwool blocks do you use?

Will you please visit hxxp://www.suretogrow.com and give us your opinion on their "new" cellulose based, PH neutral, nute inert media that sounds very similar to Rockwool without the need to wash and presoak it?

Thanks for sharing your experience with us.


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## Growdude

DonJones said:
			
		

> What size of Rockwool blocks do you use?
> 
> Will you please visit hXXp://www.suretogrow.com and give us your opinion on their "new" cellulose based, PH neutral, nute inert media that sounds very similar to Rockwool without the need to wash and presoak it?
> 
> Thanks for sharing your experience with us.



1" blocks, ive used 1/12" as well.

IMO hydroton cant be beat, nothing needs to be better anyway.


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## cmd420

Yo Grow...

have you tried other mediums than hydroton? 

I only ask cuz if there's a medium that I can use without getting little balls _everywhere_, I would like to at least give it a try...

I hope I'm not thread jackin', but I bet DJ wants to know as well


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## DonJones

cmd420,

I have samples of Sure To Grow on the way.  It is basically a plastic fiber replacement for rockwool that is instantly wettable, PH neutral, sterile and inert. 

I'm getting seeding blocks, 4" cloning blocks and pot filler.  I keep you informed when it gets here. 

Good smoking


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## DonJones

Well, my samples from Sure To Grow arrived earlier this week.  I was sure surprised when it got here.  I'm not sure what I expected, but it sure wasn't a box 18" square by 14" deep.

When I opened the box it was packed tightly with the Sure To Grow medium.  It had a large amount of 7/8" square by 1" thick cube still barely fastened together( the separate almost just by handling them without trying ot separate them) in sheets.  Each cube has a small dimple/hole in the top of it and can be used separately or in sheets for seed sprouting.

Matt of Sure To Grow explained to me that he sent all of those little blocks because they didn't have any packages of their new product called "Hail" which sounds much like balls about the size of hydroton, which is intended to be used much like hydroton balls, but without the washing dust  and the danger of slipping or hurting your foot if the should get spilled and you step on them.  He advised me to separate the little cubes and loose fill my net pot with them until they could get me a package of the Hail.

*All of the Sure To Grow products are dust free, PH neutral and inert from the factory. Even more importantly unlike clay balls and most Rockwool product they are soft and resilient.  There is no way that stepping on a piece is going to make you slip like clay balls or hurt your foot/hand or other body parts that press down on them.*  It makes my other half and me both want to fill pillows with it.

There was also a 98 count sheet of the 1.5" cubes that are intended to either be used for sprouting seeds or rooting small clones.  They have both a small hole for sprouting seeds and a X crisscross cut centered on the hole that can be spread open and the unrooted clone inserted.  I believe that they also make them in 2" cubes but could be mistaken about that.

Then I got dozen 4" cubes with a cutout to set the 1.5" cubes into.  They also have a semi-loose area in the bottom of the the cutout.  It is intended to be used on large or tall clone that need support to keep them from falling over by push the fluffy bottom to one side or the other and inserting the end of clone into it.  When you release the fluffy portion it springs back and hold the clone securely but still allows the roots and stems to grow and breathe.

They also make 6" cubes and various sized cylinders for use as an insert into pots.  I could use 7" cylinders in my pots, either solid walled with drain holes or net pots like my homemade WaterFarm with a 10" net pot lid uses if I wanted to.

They recommend that the cloning or seeding cubes be premoistened by either dipping them in PHed water because the will NOT change the PH like Rockwool will, or by pouring the PHed water directly on the cubes so that as you insert the clone or seed there is NO risk of the dry fiber scraping the rooting hormone off or ther being an air pocket around the clone or seed.  When transplanting the 1.5" cubes into the cutout in either the 4" or 6" blocks all you need ot do is to moisten the fluff in the bottom of the cutout.  That is also all you have to do if you are inserting large clones.

You can also use either the little cubes as loose fill or the large blocks to plant bare rooted clones like from a clone machine.

I tried wetting one of the small cubes under a very small stream from the sink faucet and was amazed at both the quickness of the penetration of the water, which was basically instantaneous, and by the amount of water that it absorbed. It absorb quite a bit more water than my 1.5" oasis foam cubes which is the most absorbent medium that I have found and it was much quicker.  That is more impressive when you consider that the 1.5" Oasis cube has three times the volume as the 7/8" x 7/8" x 1" Sure To Grow cube.  The cube let a lot of the water drain out quickly which promotes good aerationof the medium and the roots/seeds/clones in it. After it drained for maybe 15 seconds and quit dripping is when I squeezed the water out of it to see how much it had retained. Within 2 minutes of finishing the squeezing the cube, it was dry to the touch.  It "holds" water in the many mircospaces inside of the fiber block and slowly releases it either by evaporation or by the roots absorbing the water rather than the individual fibers than the individual fibers absorbing the water and swelling which would block water and/or air movement through the media.  The cube was as soft and fluffy when dry as it was before I wet it down.

I noticed when I was wetting the small cube that it had a soft fluffy loose bottom that could be move aside when inserting either a seed or clone and would spring back over it.

The only concern that I have is it doesn't seem to wick water up very well, but I'm not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing. It is my understanding that bottom watering through the holes in the bottom of a pot is more the result of the roots actually growing through the hole and directly into the water than wicking.  I have also been told that most of the water actually evaporates out of the tray under the pot.  No only that, I don't know of many pot growers that try to bottom water their plants rather than using the trays to catch what drains through the medium after top watering.

After soaking a small cube in water at the end of the wicking test I shook tihe water off of it gently and laid it on a saucer in 70F or better air with a RH of less than 25% to see ifit dried out quickly or dried more like my foam.  This is oging to be a subjective test because all but one side of the STg cube is exposed to room air while the foam was in 2" pony pots with two layers in them and clones rooting in them  I would water them until I got run off out of the bottom of the cubes and in nearly the same atmospheric conditions they still had moisture in the 3 to 4 days later when you would press on the foam.  The little STG cube has ell over 2 times as much exposed surface for the water to evaporate through.  I'll try to  remember to post when it was dry to the touch and when it was dried out completely.

I'm going to try sprouting my bagseed tomorrow and probably start some clones too.

Now I can see why my contact at FHD in Canada was so enthusiastic about it.  He said he virtually never recommend something other than their product line, but when I asked for his recommendation on a growing medium he said that he could not believe the difference the STG made with his WaterFarm.

Then he referred me to STG's website and I emailed them about sample and here I am. Oh, the head grower that trains dealers on the use of STG ( a professor in botany in Ohio, I don't remember which college but I can find out if you want to know)is coming through the PNW next month and will be stopping in Spokane to meet with me even though they don't have any dealers that I'm aware of closer than the coast.  That seems like pretty unusual customer support considering that I haven't even used the sample yet and certainly haven't purchased any of their products. Incidentally I believe they make complete hydro systems too, but no one has tried to convince me to change from the WaterFarm system to one of theirs.

I wish I knew someone personally who has used Rockwool so I oculd have them compare STG to Rockwool based on personal use rather than what people tell me aboutthe Rockwool.

I'll keep you all informed as best I can.

Good smoking.


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## DonJones

Here are some absorption results on the little 7/8" x7/8" x 1' cubes.  Dry they weigh 4 grams, saturated and shaken lightly to remove excess off of the surface it weighs 154 grams or 38.5 times its dry weight.  If I subtract the original dry weight I get 150 grams of water absorbed within 15 seconds or 37.5 times its own weight of water absorbed.

The one that I set out to dry had been drying for nearly 40 hours and while it didn't feel damp to the touch it still weighed 36 grams or 32 grams of water -still 8 times its own weight.  That was about an hour to an hour and a half ago, and in the meantime, its weight has dropped by 10 grams so I'm thinking that is will probably be fully dry in about a total of 48 hours.  Apparently the drying rate is not a straight line but a progressively rapidly increasing rate as time goes by, since it lost only 70% of its wet weight in about 40 hours and then lost 10% in the next 2 hours

I noticed that if it is not completely dry, it reabsorbs even quicker than the first time -- nearly instantly, as quickly as I could lay it on a side in the shallow dish I was using and change my grip to change sides, the portion of the cube that was submerged was fully saturated.  I haven't taken a completely dried once and tried rewetting it.  But even if it is no faster than a new one, it is still virtually instantaneously.

I don't know how this compares to the absorption and drying rates of Rockwool, but maybe someone out there who has used Rockwool will know. 

Good smoking everyone.


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## cmd420

Great job Don...be sure to post when the Hail gets there...sounds like a lot less of a PITA than hydroton...


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## HippyInEngland

You have a live link in post #1 and post #17 that need removing Don.

eace:


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## DonJones

HippyInEngland,

I'm surprised that after 2 months someone noticed and cared about them being live URLs.  I still haven't figured out why some times I can type www.-------.--- and it turns into a live URL when I post it and other times it doesn't turn live for the same exact URL input format.

At least it looks like you must have checked the sites, what was your impression/opinions on the information you found?

cmd420, I still haven't heard any more about the availability of the hail.  I'll try to remember to let you know when I do.

Great smoking everyone.

Anyway they shouldn't be live any more.

Great smoking.


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## HippyInEngland

DonJones said:
			
		

> HippyInEngland,
> 
> I'm surprised that after 2 months someone noticed and cared about them being live URLs.
> 
> At least it looks like you must have checked the sites, what was your impression/opinions on the information you found?
> 
> 
> 
> Anyway they shouldn't be live any more.


 
Protecting the future generation members.

I never looked, I simply right clicked them and saw they were live.

They are still live.

eace:


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## DonJones

HIE,

I just checked and you're correct, the darn things went back live every time I went in and edited out the   stuff and tried to make then dead.

I just did that again plus inserted "hxxp://" in front of the www stuff. They appear to be dead but you should check them to be sure. 

If they are back to being live when you check them, then I give up.  You will have to have someone with more knowledge than I do about how the forum engine works than I do fix it.

Also, it seems like the suretogrow one has been quoted in a couple of other post and I have NO IDEA how to fix that since they are embedded into some one else's post.

Thanks for taking the time to help me catch my errors and try to correct them.  In view of my poor keyboarding, spelling and general posting skills, it is reassuring to know that someone is helping me keep things straight.

Great smoking.

PS: I'm confused, which seems ot be a nearly normal condition any more, what do you mean just protecting future generations -- it makes no sense to me.  Pleae explain.


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## entropy82

i've done many a grows using the combined drip/dwc and would recommend it to anyone.  just keep a good check on your ph b/c it will fluctuate and remember to flush periodically.  rez changes once a week for me. also i don't use hydroton b/c of poor wicking quality. i use PrimeAgra which is a much superior LECA product combined with diatomite (diatomecious earth).
and just to be difficult its a "venturi" not a siphon pump.  cheers


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## monkeybusiness

Don, when you click a link on a website, and it sends you to another website, the website you went to can tell where you came from. So when people click on your link to the hydroponic place, the hydroponic place (as well as anyone else watching) will know that person came from here, a marijuana growing site. 
The dead link policy is to keep everyone's anonymity in check. (this generation of members, as well as, future generations)

*HIE, if i've misunderstood or misrepresented your meaning, i apologize


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## leafminer

This has been an interesting thread so far.


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## DonJones

monkeybusiness,

Thanks for the explanation.

I just checked and they have stayed dead.  I still don't understand why the same typed URL (not pasted) will go live in one post and not in the next one.

entropy82,

Thank you!  That is the word I've been looking for ever since I first saw the fitting.  Maybe the reason it didn't come to mind was because I associate venturi pumps with high speed fluid movement.  I always felt siphon wasn't the right word but couldn't think of the right one.

By the way how do you adjust the PH, by adding PH down/up into the top off water or directly into the reservoir?  Also, what nutrients do you use?

leafminer,
Yes it has been interesting hasn't it.  Please refresh my memory, but didn't you say you used Waterfarm systems too?

Great smoking everyone and Happy 2010!


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