# A novice's attepmt with Big Bud



## FrayedKnott (Aug 19, 2008)

I have been reading and absorbing quite a bit from this site the past few months. I'm not sure that I have it all correct. I've decided to do an indoor after someone thought they needed the plants I had growing outside. This site ROCKS! All the other sites do not seem as responsible and mature about growing MJ as here so here I am.


I had a grow box built that is 4'Wx3.5'Lx6.5'H. In the box is a 600w digital MH/HPS w/ an Easy Cool 6 reflector using a 6" inline fan to cool the light with. There is a Grow Bright 4" fan attached to a charcoal filter for exhaust and 2 2" pvc pipes for intake (considering installing a 4" inline fan if needed for high temps). The inside is painted with Kool Seal White Elastomeric Roof Coating. Inside the box I have a temp/hygro remote sensor and a webcam. I can monitor the temp and humidity and also view inside the box from my desk upstairs

I've germinated 10 Big Bud seeds using the paper towel technique. 9 of the seeds had a tap root after 36 hours. All were planted into styrofoam cups filled with ProMix w/ Mycorise soil. 

As of now the seedlings are in the growbox under 3 27w Daylight CFL bulbs 24/7 for the past 2 days. My intentions are to keep them under the CFLs for 2 weeks then putting them under the 600w MH. 

I was thinking of transplanting to a 1 gallon container at 3 weeks. 

I've included some photos.

1st photo is my growbox. The there is an adjustable shelf.
2nd photo are the germinated seeds.
3rd photo is germed seeds in cups under cfls
4th photo are seedlings

Any pointers, recommendations, advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks! Mike


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## cuy103 (Aug 19, 2008)

Impressive set-up.  Looks like you got everything down bro


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## ms4ms (Aug 19, 2008)

I am lucky to be the first to answer this post. I wish my set up was this good. It seems like you have done everyhting top-shelf. My grow set up is smaller so others will chime in for sure. I hope you do a grow journal with this set up so we can all watch your girls go crazy. the webcam is a cool idea. Great job.


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## [email protected] (Aug 19, 2008)

cant wait to see some BIG BUDs haha everything looks nice and professional keep it up and youll have a blast.


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## Bleek187 (Aug 19, 2008)

i started 3 seeds of big bud about 5 weeks ago.. i had planed on making a second grow box to flower in but decided not 2... so i cant flower them untill my other crop is done.. its got about 2 weeks left... these big bud plants are rediculous... they suck up so much water and are so BIG its driving me crazy... ive got a big bud plant next to a blueberry plant i started the same day and the big bud is about 3 times biger than the blue... pretty cool =)


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## FrayedKnott (Aug 22, 2008)

Ok, so now my seeds have all sprouted, even the one that didn't get a tap root when they all were planted. It's been a couple of days since they've sprouted and they're getting their first set of leaves.

One thing I noticed is that gray mold was growing on the soil of some of the cups. I googled this and found that it grows because of high moisture and no air movement. I was only watering every other day because the soil was still damp and the cups had holes in the bottom for drainage. The temps have been 75-77F with 65% humidity.

I went and bought a desktop fan and transplanted all the plants in new soil and cups. Some of the plants have a wilting look.I hope they'll be ok.

Any advice would be great!

1st photo is yesterday, might be able to see the mold.
2nd photo is today several hours after transplanting and installation of fan

Thanks! Mike


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## FrayedKnott (Aug 25, 2008)

The plants showed stress from their transplant with browning on the leaf edge. They started growing their second set of leaves.

So, after a week of cfl's, I've put the plants under a 600w MH light. They seem able to handle the increased light. With the MH light the temps are hitting 90F with a RH of 40%. I've installed another 6" 250 cfm inline fan to cool the light and added a 4" 80cfm fan for increased intake. The light is now just warm underneath it to the touch. After all this the temps are still in the upper 80's. I'm going to try the frozen water jugs in front of the intake when they freeze. I've put a bucket of water in the box in hopes of inceasing the RH.

I have a fan blowing on the plants to circulate the air and avoid mold while strengthing their stems. They are 28" from the light.

Couple of questions, when should I repot to a 1 gallon and when should I start nutrients? I'm going to use the Fox Farms Grow Big for vegging. What more can I do to lower temps and raise humidity?

1st photo is yesterday just begining MH light.
2nd is 24hrs after MH light.


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## KGB30 (Aug 25, 2008)

Awesome setup & grow.. Keep on growing.lol


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## FrayedKnott (Aug 27, 2008)

Well, my plants are looking much better and getting bigger. They are handling the 600w MH light very well, not showing signs of stress from the increased light and heat. Temps are still in the upper 80's, usually 88-89F. Not sure what else to do, I've put more intake fans in and am using the frozen jugs also. The temps lower to 85.5-86f with the jugs, but they don't last but aboout 2-3 hours.

I think I'll wait another week to repot to 1 gallon and then another week to start nutrients.


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## tess (Aug 27, 2008)

Looking good Boy, I'd transfer them soon better them have too much room then too little


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## bombbudpuffa (Aug 27, 2008)

You need a stronger fan on your exhaust and/or get the temp in the room they are growing in cooler. You don't want to fertilize them until they are around 30 days old.


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## KGB30 (Aug 27, 2008)

Looking good buddy


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## FrayedKnott (Aug 27, 2008)

bombbudpuffa said:
			
		

> You need a stronger fan on your exhaust and/or get the temp in the room they are growing in cooler.


The exhaust fan I have now is a 4" 170cfm connected to a charcoal filter. Do you think another 4" fan w/ filter will do the trick? or should I go with a 6" 424cfm fan w/ filter to lower the temps? 

Thanks!


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## bombbudpuffa (Aug 27, 2008)

I'd go with the 6 inch if you can.


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## [email protected] (Aug 27, 2008)

6 inch all the way man i got direct ac hookup to my closet 600 watt hps, and 2 250 cfm 6 inch inline propeller fans for my outtake fans my temps are fine now but defintly took some time to get my temps right, youll just need play with all the stuff try different combinations with your fans ac etc., i have to have a cooling source not just fans becoase i live in a very hot, tropical enviroment. hope this helps, peace.


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## FrayedKnott (Aug 28, 2008)

These puppies are getting bigger by the day. I've decided to repot them into 1 gallon containers this weekend as tess suggested. I'm afraid as fast as they are growing, next week might be to late.

I ordered the 6" 424cfm inline fan w/ filter. Should be here sometime early next week. Hopefully it'll keep the temps down. Planning to build some sort of styrofoam box with egg crate foam to absorb the noise, maybe do that for the 4" fan also. In the mean time I'll be using the frozen water jugs to keep down the temps.

Here is my latest photo, I turned the tray around just so they would be in a different place under the light.


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## jibba069 (Aug 28, 2008)

To help keep the fan noise down get a speed adjuster for the fans. Mine sound like there was a plane underneath my room. I got one and it has been quite since.


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## FrayedKnott (Aug 31, 2008)

Ok, I've repotted my plants into 1 gallon pots. They had quite a few roots at the bottom of those cups, I was suprised the root system was so advanced after 2 weeks. 

I left the door open to my growbox last night and the temp went down to 79F. All the plants seem much happier with the new containers and lower temps.

I'm going to Harbor Freight to get a variable speed controller, hope this keeps the noise down and still allows the fan to bring in as much cooler air as needed.

1st photo is side view of plants in growbox.
2nd photo is a shot of the tops.


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 3, 2008)

Well I received the 6" 424 cfm fan and filter. I've revamped my growbox. The new fan/filter was installed on the right side. The duct work for the light was changed to flexible tubing and the light hung with chain. The two 6" fans that cooled the light were removed and installed near the bottom of the box as intakes. The exhaust from the new fan/filter combo is now being used to cool the light. The shelf was removed to allow more air circulation and the light is now able to raise and lower. An oscillating fan was mounted on the left wall for air circulatig and stem strengthening. 


So there is a 4" 170 cfm fan/filter and a 6" 424 cfm fan/filter used for exhaust. The fan/filter probably runs 75% of maximum, so the 4" is 127 cfm and the 6" is 318 cfm for a total exhaust of 445 cfm. I have two 6" 250 cfm fans and a 4" 80 cfm fan for a total of 580 cfm intake. My box has 84 ft/c3.

Even with all this air exchange my temps are still in the upper 80's. I figure the problem is that I'm using the 6" exhaust fan to cool the light and that's probably not going to help cool things down. Tomorrow I'm going to Home Depot to get two 6" inline fans to cool the light, one for intake the other for exhaust for the light.

1st photo of the changes.
2nd photo is the plants.


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## risktaker27 (Sep 3, 2008)

looking very good i had same problem with temps in my grow cab cant go wrong with more fans imo.mine stays around 80-83 deg if i leave door open 75-80


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## BuddyLuv (Sep 3, 2008)

You are cooling it in the wrong fashion. You want to cool the light with air from outside the box and suck it right out the other side. You intake and exhaust should be completely seperate. You should not use your exhaust to cool your hood. All you are doing is cooling the bulb with air that it hot. You want fresh cool air from out and pull it straight through. Your intake should be down low and your exhaust up high on the opposite side.


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## BuddyLuv (Sep 3, 2008)

sorry I am really stoned or I would draw you something up in paint. I promise I will work on it in an hour but right now it is out of the question.lol


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## andy52 (Sep 3, 2008)

i feel you.i had major temp problems when i started.i bought a portable ac unit.because my windows are the crank out style and a window unit would not help.getting the cold air from the central unit did not work either.as the unit kicks off and on too much.since the ac i can keep it where i want it.i keep it at about 73-75 degrees.i will not have to worry about that soon tho.as for myself i will not grow during the summer months again.unless its strictly outside in the soil.
  hope you get your temps down.i know its a b.   good luck


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 3, 2008)

BuddyLuv said:
			
		

> You are cooling it in the wrong fashion. You want to cool the light with air from outside the box and suck it right out the other side. You intake and exhaust should be completely seperate. You should not use your exhaust to cool your hood. All you are doing is cooling the bulb with air that it hot. You want fresh cool air from out and pull it straight through. Your intake should be down low and your exhaust up high on the opposite side.



Ya, thanks. That's what I was figuring. Tomorrow I'm going to Home Depot for two 6" 250 cfm fans just for cooling the light.


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 3, 2008)

ya bro just read th thread ur plants are looking good i just started my box yesterday and its going to be some what similar to yours so u got me excited


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 6, 2008)

I've installed two 6" 250 cfm fans to cool the light. Disconnected the exhaust that was cooling the light. Temps are down to 86F. I hope this is ok. For the money I spent on the 6" 424 cfm fan/filter  and the two 6" 250 cfm inline fans, I could have bought a portable A/C unit.

I fertilized yesterday for the first time. Gave the plants a 1/4 dose of Fox Farms Grow Big fertilizer. They seemed to love it, they're bigger, greener and lush. They are starting to grow 5th node. I may have to take them off the tray they're sitting on to give them more room, they are becoming quite bushey.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Sep 6, 2008)

Hello my friend...you have plenty of cfm..IMO...I think some thing is hooked wrong...with that much cfm as exhaust you should not have heat issues..let me ask a few questions...is there a inline fan drawing fresh air in and threw the light?  also where are you discharging this heat?  ouside of box I hope...also if the temps of the ambient air is high 80  you wont get box any cooler then the air you bring in...I seen a grow on here where a guy used an ac unit in a built box to cool the air beeing braught into box..clever I thaught..will wait for the reply...


420


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## That crazy vancouver guy (Sep 6, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing... something is fundamentally wrong here.

what is the ambient temp of the air you are using for intake?
and... where is your exhaust going?... into the ambient air being used for intake?

I draw my intake from the ambient air that the box is in, but I exhaust it to outside. how is yers done?


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 6, 2008)

Ok, I've labeled a front and back photo with my setup. If anything, the runs to cool the light might be too long. I've also put another temp sensor in the box to verify the actual temp. The initial sensor is with the plants under the light. The ambient room temp in my basement is about 75F.

Thanks for your help.


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 6, 2008)

you see your intake fans are sucking in your exhaust air, meaning the hot air ur getting from inside the box and the runoff from your light is the same air being sucked into the box via intake, you should exhaust the air outside or a different room, somewhere away from your intake


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 7, 2008)

The setup is in my basement. Trying to keep it inconspicuous. I did move the intakes a bit away from the exhausts, put a fan in the back to circulate the air and left a wider gap between the wall and box allowing for more air to get back there. The temps in the box now are  81F and 83F under the lights.

When I get some time, I'm going to shorten the runs for cooling the light. That should get the light exhaust further away from the intakes and allow for more air thru to cool the light.

As for the plants, they're getting bigger, bushier and lush.

Thanks for the help!


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## BuddyLuv (Sep 7, 2008)

The only thing I see wrong is that you are exhaust for the room and you light is right by your intakes for the room and the lights. You are going to be just circulating that hot air back into your intakes. However 83 is not the best temp but you can make it work it would be considered border line.


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 7, 2008)

83 is decent i would prefer a steady 75 but u can deff grow in 83 plus ur plants are lookin pretty good bro. and its a nice box. good luck with the grow


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 7, 2008)

I shortened up the light runs and aimed all the exhaust vent tubes straight up away from the intakes. I now have 76.5F under the light.

I need to caulk all the cracks and vent seems. I have a slight skunky odor in my basement that people are commenting about.

Thanks for everyone's pointers and advice. Keep 'em coming!


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## BuddyLuv (Sep 7, 2008)

That is a good temp to work with. You will have a much faster growth rate and better plant respiration.


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 7, 2008)

after u caulk all the cracks do u expect the smell to still be there? because in my grow i cant have any smell


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 11, 2008)

Still haven't caulked yet, but I did turn off the two 6" 250cfm fans and left the 4" 80cfm fan running. The temps didn't change at all and the odor became less noticeable. I think there was more air going in than being exhausted and was coming out every possible place. Now there is more exhaust and it's pulling the air in.

 I also ordered an ozone generator JR for outside the growbox and I'm investigating how to go about possibly venting the exhaust outside with my dryer vent.

My plants are 3 1/2 weeks old. They are growing like weeds. They're 8 inches tall on average and very bushy. Even the nodes have nodes. I can't believe how fast they're growing. I hope I don't run out of room. Hopefully in a couple of weeks they'll show their sex so I can get rid of the males to make for more room.


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## TokeWithHope (Sep 11, 2008)

looking good bro! im getting excited for my grow


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## 4u2sm0ke (Sep 11, 2008)

yeah glad to hear the temps are down...sometimes its just takes another set of eyes to catch something....you can push your exhaust threw the dryer vent...get youself a "Y" fitting and conect an inline fan.Plants look great...KEEP M GREEN


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 15, 2008)

Got the temp problems resolved. Put an ozone generator JR for odor, still need to vent the exhaust out with the dryer vent yet. Plants are getting bigger and the smell more noticeable.

I started giving Fox Farms Grow Big a week ago with a 1/4 dose and the a 1/2 dose. Just watered yesterday with no nutes. But after researching I'm thinking I'm not giving enough because the bottom leaves are yellow. I'm only watering about 3 times a week.

Also the tips of the tops are turning yellow, is this from the light being to close or the start of root bind? the lights were 18 inches and I moved them 4 inches further away. Doesn't seem too hot anywhere under the light. These plants are growing fast, after 4 weeks now they are 11-12 inches. 

The photos show the symptoms. Any help or diagnoses would be great! thanks.


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## KushBlower12 (Sep 15, 2008)

I have a similar setup and had issues with heat as well. It doesnt look like youre afraid to spend some money on this and thats good. I had to get an ac unit. Ya alot of people dont think you need it, but I beg to differ. My temps went from 85-89 to 73-77. Just a thought... Good luck bro


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 19, 2008)

Well it's been a couple of days since my last post. I was able to vent the exhaust outside. Even with 2 charcoal filters vented outside and an ozone generator there is a slight skunky smell. I guess it is what it is.

Since the exhaust is vented outside, the temp went to 80-81F, probably from the long run outside. I'm going to try an inline fan to help expel the exhaust outside in hopes it helps lower the temps a bit.

These plants have been growing 4 1/2 weeks now, there on average 14 inches tall. The bottom leaves were turning yellow and drying up for a week now. I repotted them into 5 gallon sized containers. There's a photo below that shows how massive the root ball was. Hopefully the repotting will eliminate the dying bottom leaves. 

I was wanting to figure out the sex before repotting so I could eliminate the males. No such luck. They are getting close to showing their sex, the nodes are starting to alternate. Won't be long now.


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## Dankerz (Sep 20, 2008)

with the repot and overall health already they should be lush monsters in no time.. keep us updated


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## Dozingoffaroundthecorner (Sep 20, 2008)

Your roots look awesome. What kind of planting mix did you use for the substrate and what was your method for transplanting? Your box is wicked.


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## BuddyLuv (Sep 20, 2008)

looking good bro. The temps you have should be fine.


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## FrayedKnott (Sep 21, 2008)

Dozingoffaroundthecorner said:
			
		

> Your roots look awesome. What kind of planting mix did you use for the substrate and what was your method for transplanting? Your box is wicked.



I used straight *PRO-MIX BX W/MYCORISE *it has mycorrhizal fungi that is supposed to be beneficial for the roots. *
*


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## cjf2612 (Sep 21, 2008)

I grew big bud as my very first grow,it certainly stands up to its name,the buds are hugh,I couldnt believe how big my colas got,I would rate the smoke as a medium but maybe that was due to inexperiance. I would definatly grow it again though.
Good luck my friend


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## FrayedKnott (Oct 2, 2008)

Well it's been awhile, thought I'd better give an update.

Plants have been growing like wild fire. They're getting so big that even though it's only been 6 weeks, I changed my bulb to HPS and set the timer for 12/12. I'm hoping that some of 'em are going to be males. I need to make room soon they're so big. They measure 27 inches tall.

Before I started the flowering, it looked as though they were all females. Every 1 of them had white hairs. Now what's the chance of them all being females? Being a novice, I had an experienced buddy check also. That's when I decided to start flowering.

It's going to be get rid of the males or weak females, maybe both.


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## docfishwrinkle (Oct 2, 2008)

you should be able to tell sex with preflowers that pop on 7-8 node when plant is 10-12 nodes tall. surprised its been this long for ya.


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## BuddyLuv (Oct 2, 2008)

They look healthy. Now you just have to sit back and wait till they all show themselves, chop down the male and weak. I would rather free up space for a strong female then waste it on a weak line.


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## FrayedKnott (Oct 9, 2008)

ok, it's been 7 weeks, 1 week of 12/12 the plants are 42 inches tall. They've grown 15 inches in a week. How do I keep them from getting to tall or slow'em down? at this rate I'm going to run out of room in 2 weeks. Is 1 week of 12/12 too late to top them?

I did discover 3 males and removed them. That leaves 7 plants left, they seem to be females so far. Without the 3 males, it made for more room, the light seems to get further down towards the bottom branches.


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## mpmiller (Nov 5, 2008)

Ok, so it's been awhile. I thought I'd update with some photos. The buds are getting big, the trichromes are appearing. How long before the trichromes go from clear to milky to amber?


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## Pothead420 (Nov 5, 2008)

mpmiller said:
			
		

> Ok, so it's been awhile. I thought I'd update with some photos. The buds are getting big, the trichromes are appearing. How long before the trichromes go from clear to milky to amber?


usually most indica dominant plants mature between 7-9 weeks of flowering
and its all on you depending what type of buzz you like if you like a couchlock or stupid high wait till all the trichs are milky white some amber if you like an upity high then cut when there just starting to cloud some clear


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 6, 2008)

mpmiller said:
			
		

> Ok, so it's been awhile. I thought I'd update with some photos. The buds are getting big, the trichromes are appearing. How long before the trichromes go from clear to milky to amber?


 
How many weeks of flower are they at. They look like they have a couple weeks left. That is when they really fatten up.


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## andy52 (Nov 6, 2008)

i agree with buddy,looks like they need a couple weeks to me also.looking good


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## FrayedKnott (Nov 6, 2008)

BuddyLuv said:
			
		

> How many weeks of flower are they at. They look like they have a couple weeks left. That is when they really fatten up.


 
They've been flowering about 5 weeks, I was just wondering what the time frame was between the change in trichromes from clear to milky to amber. Do I need to keep a close watch in a couple of weeks? do they change very quickly? days? week?


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## yeroc1982 (Nov 6, 2008)

Looks good man!


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## smokingjoe (Nov 6, 2008)

They look great;  I reckon in some of the earlier shots your babies are suffering a mild magnesium and or iron deficiency.

Hope it produces plenty of buds for you though.

You should try a scrog in that cabinet next time around.


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## Wiseguy_Chef (Nov 7, 2008)

very nice looking plants buddy, good looking "big buds" good luck finshing up your plants looks like u a cople aweeks away from the harvest of a long hard hall, i am sure them buds will make it all the wild. pease.


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## Wiseguy_Chef (Nov 7, 2008)

P.s. Don't For Get To Stop Giveing It Food, An Start To Flush A Week Befor Harvest


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## BuddyLuv (Nov 8, 2008)

FrayedKnott said:
			
		

> They've been flowering about 5 weeks, I was just wondering what the time frame was between the change in trichromes from clear to milky to amber. Do I need to keep a close watch in a couple of weeks? do they change very quickly? days? week?


 
Well depending on what breeder they are I have to say Big Bud is an 8-9 week plant. So they have some time to go. Just think, they buds will swell to double in size the last two to three weeks. So you are gonna have some fat buds on your hands here. I would say to start watching your trichs towards the end of week 7.


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