# LED Info needed



## Ranek Icewalker (Apr 27, 2011)

Anyone out there experienced with a full LED grow?

I know alot of people say they are terrible and too expensive etc, but im just really interested if anyone has successfully grown a nice crop with LED.

Another forum i frequent has a few dudes who grow with LED exclusive, anyone tried it?

Im trying to think of a way i can continue to grow in the summer, im having trouble keeping my temps down below 84 in my new place with my 1000w, i cant imagine what it will be like in July.

My temps are solely from lack of viable areas to vent, i have the equipment to cool and vent properly i just cant utilize it well enough here.

Can a mod please delete this thread, i accidentally put it in the wrong area


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## Ranek Icewalker (Apr 27, 2011)

Anyone out there experienced with a full LED grow?

I know alot of people say they are terrible and too expensive etc, but  im just really interested if anyone has successfully grown a nice crop  with LED.

Another forum i frequent has a few dudes who grow with LED exclusive, anyone tried it?

Im trying to think of a way i can continue to grow in the summer, im  having trouble keeping my temps down below 84 in my new place with my  1000w, i cant imagine what it will be like in July.

My temps are solely from lack of viable areas to vent, i have the  equipment to cool and vent properly i just cant utilize it well enough  here.


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## ozzydiodude (Apr 27, 2011)

From what I have read on them to work for vegging good but for flowering they don't do as good of a job. The panels that use 3watt LED seem to be the best choice according to a couple other using them that I talk to else where.


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## ozzydiodude (Apr 27, 2011)

just delete your first post of this thread and it will delete the thread.


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## Ranek Icewalker (Apr 27, 2011)

Thanks ODD, i have considered getting two of the 357 Magnum Panels, they put out about 500W read a few journals from a guy who got .9 per watt from them.

But i have no idea if the buds were airy, which is one of my main concerns with LED right now.

Just want some concrete information from someone on here, someone i know isnt working for the company selling the LED's.


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## ozzydiodude (Apr 27, 2011)

Stoney I think is working some led lighting and hopeful he will chime in. That was the main complant I have seen was the the LED produced airy buds and less weight per area compared to HPS lights.


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## jesuse (Apr 27, 2011)

my budy grows full out on leds and iv seen his grows do well in veg and then he never gets a good return when they flower id recomend some other lighting for flowering mybe cfl just a thout// peace


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 27, 2011)

jesuse said:
			
		

> my budy grows full out on leds and iv seen his grows do well in veg and then he never gets a good return when they flower id recomend some other lighting for flowering mybe cfl just a thout// peace



Lumen for lumen, CFLs will run hotter than a HPS.

I run my lights at night during the summer to help with the heat.


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## Locked (Apr 27, 2011)

From the research I have done into LEDs it seems you can flower with them if you have the money to buy the *proper* panels. Google irshboy led grow and you will see some pretty good LED grows but the panels he uses are expensive. It all comes down to getting the right panels...if the price seems cheap you are not getting the right ones. Jmo


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## Roddy (Apr 27, 2011)

I'm wondering if the initial cost of the lights is soon offset by the savings on electricity?


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## Ranek Icewalker (Apr 27, 2011)

Im not shying away from dropping some cash up front if they Work, anything is better than the aggravation of suffering through heat issues and ending up with bud that wasnt worth the time or money spent to grow because its Airy and wispy.

Really does seem hit and miss with the LED panels, ive looked into the 357 Magnums, a fella on RIU uses them and his yields are .9 per watt, or so he claims, ive seen the GJs and they look amazing, only problem is i dont know or trust the guy to not be a LED salesman 

Thanks all.


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## OGKushman (Apr 27, 2011)

ive been told that there are false informing grows on the web where guys grow under HPS or MH and then swap in their LEDs to take pics. They do this to boost sales of their LED panels. Efficiency is key to any grow, elec is $$$$....BUT skimping on dense light will screw you. I still maintain that LEDs are useless. You CAN veg with them only, but your could do it cheaper and with more light and less heat using a CFL or small MH


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## sickbiker (Apr 27, 2011)

check out this guy he grows under led
hxxp://www.youtube.com/user/BetterOverallSystem


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## jungle (Apr 27, 2011)

i bought a reasonably priced led...it was advertised to cover a 4' x 4' area. I'm glad i didn't pay mega bucks for it like some of them are asking. I personally have no confidense, and if I had to resort to cheap lights I think I'd do a scrog with florecents.....other wise.....I to hate the cost of electricity...and can see why we explore and even try other avenues that look cheaper to operate with..I don't think to many are sold on leds, and i have one and i don't think it's good for flowering only.....might be wrong...good for veg but why pay money....my oppinion......with out all the facts...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 28, 2011)

I'm with OG--I just don't really trust those videos.  It is simply too easy to fake results or use other light sources.  

Sickbiker--that link just takes us to a bunch of videos--I couldn't find the one you were talking about.


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## StoneyBud (Apr 28, 2011)

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> Stoney I think is working some led lighting and hopeful he will chime in. That was the main complaint I have seen was the the LED produced airy buds and less weight per area compared to HPS lights.


 
I've used LEDs now for rooting clones and vegging. The panel I used was a 12" x 12", 28 watt panel called a "GlowPanel45".

I got excellent results on the rooting and the vegging. I'm too busy right not to go a full grow, but I will as soon as I can.

The vegging room needed no cooling. That's one of the absolute benefits of using the LEDs. The plants also had the tightest nodes I've ever seen on an MJ plant, and I've seen thousands of them grown using anything from natural sunlight to CFLs.

The ONLY doubt I have left is their value in flowering. I'll be setting up my own experiment for that soon. I'll make a thread on it.

Thanks for the mention, Ozzy.





.


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## babysnakess (Apr 28, 2011)

I just found out most of irishboys led grows were pulled from icmag because no one else could do the same with the same light. Some good led name tossed around, if you have the money are lumigrow, spectra from growledhydro, ledgrow.se, and stealhgrow. Some one on a forum said he visited stealhgrow in cali and they have a sg(602) 600 watt going head to head with a 1000 watt horilux hps and the led is winning and the led bud is more potent.


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## Ranek Icewalker (Apr 28, 2011)

Seems alot of people are skeptics of the GJ's and Videos out there, one of the main reasons im shying away is for these reasons, it always seems that someone that does a great led grow is always sponsored or got the lights free from some LED company to test em out, that smells of Bias to me and i dont trust it.

I guess everyone agrees they can veg, but no one knows for sure what their bloom potential really is, only way to find out is to drop 1500ish and take the plunge it looks like.

Not sure if im ready for that yet


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## Locked (Apr 28, 2011)

Spearchucker knows quite a bit about LEDs.....he did a lot of research on them and is good at spotting the good ones over the junk ones....maybe hit him up with a pm....wish we had the @ function over here so we cld just page him to this thread.


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## sickbiker (Apr 29, 2011)

The owner of the hydro store i go is going to let me try out one of his lumigrow led He swears by it. I told him im still not sure so he wants me to use his light on my next grow. So i will see what happens


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## Ranek Icewalker (Apr 29, 2011)

Thanks Hampster, ill drop hima message

SB, i dunno how people get hydro stores to give/loan them hundred or thousand of dollars worth of equipment, but i need to get in with these stores


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## OGKushman (Apr 29, 2011)

instead of wasting your time, why dont your guys buy a light meter (lux meter) and test tye output of the damn LEDs...youll be happier with the meter...but hey at least yall will learn about output intensities in lumens when compared to input wattage. 

You cant fool physics, it takes WATTS to grow big.


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## OGKushman (Apr 29, 2011)

by wasting your time i mean* 

wasting your time buying something that is not up to par. Instead of just buying it and guessing if it works, test it. Then post the results. 

Maybe: Take your meter to a hydro store with a ruler and inform us of the lumen output at 6inches/1'/2' etc....

just an idea. Im not implying anything from my last 2 posts. Just asking for some definitive results to compare.


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## StoneyBud (Apr 29, 2011)

OGKushman said:
			
		

> instead of wasting your time, why don't your guys buy a light meter (lux meter) and test the output of the damn LEDs...you'll be happier with the meter...but hey at least y'all will learn about output intensities in lumens when compared to input wattage.
> 
> You cant fool physics, it takes WATTS to grow big.


 
I'm in a "Low-Money" time right now, but fully intend to buy a light meter as soon as it can be fit into the budget.

I'm pretty sure, as a seasoned grower, you mean "It takes Plant-Usable-Lumens to grow big". Wattage has little to do with it other than being a part of the full equation of plant growth.

Put a 10 thousand watt light 100 feet above a plant and the plant will stretch as bad as one under a 60 watt incandescent bulb 3 feet above it, as you are aware, (I'm saying this for clarity to those who don't know).

Put a 28 watt LED like I use, at 4 inches above a vegging plant that will fit under it in an 18" x 18" canopy area, and it'll thrive, grow great and have the tightest nodes you've ever seen, (I did this already on my current crop and the one before it).

Lumen output from a Halogen light aren't able to be used by a plant very well because the light puts out so damn much heat that you can't get it close enough to the plant for the available lumens to do any good for the plant.

Plant usable lumens. THAT is what makes a plant grow big.


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## OGKushman (Apr 29, 2011)

No it takes Wattage to grow big. At maximun average intensity The sun produces 1000 watts / sq meter. Equivalent to 10000 lumens per square foot.

that equation your talking about is simple physics and some optics. you want to discuss lighting...

lets discuss HPS (for my own lack of testing on LEDs)
1000 watts = 140000 lumens @ 14square feet (~4x4x8 closet)

140,000lum/14sq ft = 10,000lum/sqft 

this 10,000 lumens being equivalent to the suns 10,000 lumens in late fall; COULD ONLY BE OBTAINED USING 1,000 WATTS AND HPS LIGHTING. 

Thus the statment "It takes Watts to grow big"


Now. Someone do up 100 watts of LEDs and compare (x10). Document with a kill-a-watt, pictures, and a lux meter. I already have an idea of what your going to find based on my research.




My experience leads me to believe tight nodes are more strain dependant than any other factor.


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## StoneyBud (Apr 29, 2011)

OGKushman said:
			
		

> No it takes Wattage to grow big. At maximum average intensity The sun produces 1000 watts / sq meter. Equivalent to 10000 lumens per square foot.
> 
> that equation your talking about is simple physics and some optics. you want to discuss lighting...
> 
> ...


 
You can think that wattage makes large plants all you wish, but it simply not true.

Put your ten thousand watt bulb one mile above your plants and see what happens. Nothing.

Put it where the LUMEN count striking the leaf surface are large enough and the same light will grow large plants.

No, the strain had nothing to do with the tight nodes I spoke of. I used the same strain under HPS and under LEDs and the LEDs grew plants with nodes twice as tight as the HPS could at its closest.

I think you're arguing just to be arguing man. We can go around and around with this as long as you like. Wattage is NOT what makes plants grow. Plant usable lumens are.

Please don't start a fight over this. If you think about what I've said, you'll have no choice but to agree because its fact. Proven fact. Proven by about a thousand plant biologists over 50 years.

You're right on one thing; physics proves I'm correct. Photons striking the plant are what makes photosynthesis happen. The further away a light is from the plant, the less of its originating Photons strike that plant. I'm sure that there are stars that have equal or larger mass and output than our sun, but they have no effect on plant life on earth because they are simply too far from earth to have any effect. When the source of the "wattage" is close enough, the light output in a spectrum of light that the plants can effectively use and enough LUMENS are present at the surface of the leaves, the plant will grow its best.

The wattage has little to do with it other than being related to the originating power. My 28 watt LEDs cause more plant growth and better plant growth during vegging, in terms of later yield when *flowered* with a HPS, than a 400 watt HPS when applied at the proper distance from the plant. I've already proven it. I can't get a 400 watt HPS close enough to any plant to do as much good as that 28 watt LED panel does at 4".





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## OGKushman (Apr 29, 2011)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> I think you're arguing just to be arguing man. We can go around and around with this as long as you like. Wattage is NOT what makes plants grow. Plant usable lumens are.



and until you get a lumen meter and measure the output at given distances you are just blowing smoke.  

look you cant get lumen output without energy. Indoor energy comes from electricity, i.e:watts. No way around it stoney. LEDs claim a lot but i have yet to see a vid on uboob showing a side by side comparison btwn LEDs and HPSs of watts drawn to lumen output, and im not going to waste my money on any MORE unnecessary lighting :rofl:

And nodes and stretching...comon now.

Look at two different strains here. Growing under the same light. I have cut and clone, whacked and chopped the lemon skunk Og18. Have yet to touch the Oatmeal. All in 9+ months. Really. I cant keep the lemon to squat on its nodes and i cant get the oatmeal to stretch; even under 1/2 the light.

The Oatmeals nodes are TOO CLOSE. It wont let itself breathe. Only a top canopy is able to bud. The lemon complete opposite. All in same conditions.

All under the same lights for the same time. Dont believe me look into my old pics and see the lemon stretch and the oatmeal pack nodes. All under 120watts of t8 6500 K. Been this way for almost a year now. Conditions have not changed.

Im not arguing im discussing with you my research findings.




Edit:
Pic1: Lemon left Oatmeal right
2: Lemon up high Oatmeal down low
3: Lemon Mad Stretch
4: Oatmeal Mad nodes.
...all side by side


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## StoneyBud (Apr 29, 2011)

OGKushman said:
			
		

> and until you get a lumen meter and measure the output at given distances you are just blowing smoke.
> 
> look you cant get output without energy. Indoor energy comes from electricity, i.e:watts. No way around it stoney.
> 
> And nodes and stretching...comon now.


 
You and I disagree on many things about how we both end up with quality bud. I guess you and I will just have to agree to disagree.

No biggie man. I think you're wrong and you think I'm wrong.

That's life.

Peace to you man. I wish you only happiness and a full life. 

I think it's pretty pointless to continue discussing it. We've both made our statements about our interpretations of the physics involved.


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## OGKushman (Apr 29, 2011)

ok 

eace:


here :48: smoke?


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## StoneyBud (Apr 29, 2011)

OGKushman said:
			
		

> ok  eace:here :48: smoke?


 

Thanks, back atcha:

:48:


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## rotten_socks420 (Apr 29, 2011)

Wow, intense discussion right there, im in a hurry to go some were but I had to finish reading that... lol i need to hit a bong now


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## Ranek Icewalker (Apr 29, 2011)

I like cake.


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## Locked (Apr 29, 2011)

i Like turtles......youtu.be/CMNry4PE93Y


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## prefersativa (Apr 29, 2011)

I've been using T5 floros for vegging and a 600w hps for flower. I live south of most of the continental US, just so you understand my conditions. My flower tent was starting to run well over 90 degress F, so retired the 600 for summer and fired up the old 400w HPS for the summer months. Just to see how things work, I picked up a 120w LED from the local HTGSuppy store. So, I will see for myself if a LED and a T5 do equally well for vegging. The T5 has new bulbs, so that shouldn't be a factor. And I can't imagine that 10 watts difference will make for very different results. If the LED grows in veg like I've been led to believe, then I intend to try it in combo with the 400w hps to flower. A friend uses this setup and gets results very close to my 600w hps for flowering purposes.


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## Roddy (Apr 29, 2011)

shhhh.....you'll anger the LED haters!


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## StoneyBud (Apr 30, 2011)

prefersativa said:
			
		

> ...I picked up a 120w LED...will see for myself if a LED and a T5 do equally well for vegging. If the LED grows in veg like I've been led to believe, then I intend to try it in combo with the 400w hps to flower.


 
If you keep very good canopy control and the LEDs are kept within 4 inches of the very even canopy, then the LEDs would do great on thier own during vegging. Adding more light is always better to a point.

LST, LST, LST and more LST. With LEDs, its extremely important to keep your canopy as even as a golf green. The best throw of any LED I've heard of is 18" max. Beyond that, it won't do anything for you. More than 4 inches from the tops and its effectiveness drops like a lead balloon.

I'm almost ready to start my second vegging with nothing but LEDs. I think this one will even be better than the last.

For flowering...I can't say. I haven't tried it yet.


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## SmashedbyHashish (May 9, 2011)

Been haveing trouble w/ bleaching & then after so long it will kill them. When I first got my 290w led I put it to close & really bleached some seedlings I had. Since then I put 3  mature plants in there that are flowering, the lite is 24" above the plants & it still started to bleach my colossus auto flower. Auto marie & #1 super auto love it though. Just wanted to get some imput from you all. Thanx in advance!


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## StoneyBud (May 9, 2011)

SmashedbyHashish said:
			
		

> Been haveing trouble w/ bleaching & then after so long it will kill them. When I first got my 290w led I put it to close & really bleached some seedlings I had. Since then I put 3 mature plants in there that are flowering, the lite is 24" above the plants & it still started to bleach my colossus auto flower. Auto marie & #1 super auto love it though. Just wanted to get some imput from you all. Thanx in advance!


 
There is no way LEDs did anything to your plants at 24" from them, or even at 6". Something else was causing your problems.

When you say "Bleaching", exactly what is it you mean? Do you have any pics of it?

Lighting, by itself, is not going to make any plant a lighter color. If that is happening to you, then nutrients, water, pH or heat is doing it. No way LEDs are.


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## babysnakess (May 10, 2011)

I have seen some led grows were the light actually turned the tips of the plants white.


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## Roddy (May 10, 2011)

This can't be good....


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## StoneyBud (May 10, 2011)

babysnakess said:
			
		

> I have seen some led grows were the light actually turned the tips of the plants white.


 
The light didn't do it. There is no reaction to light that would do that.

The problem was more than likely caused by a nutrient problem.


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## babysnakess (May 11, 2011)

Stoneybud I just looked at pictures of addicted2grow's 2-120 watt powerLEDS grow journal, at day 58 flowering, and before, the tips of some of the buds are white and he figures its from the light being too close. These are big fat healthy looking buds other then that. 120 watts is a lot more intense then 28 watts.


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## StoneyBud (May 11, 2011)

babysnakess said:
			
		

> Stoneybud I just looked at pictures of addicted2grow's 2-120 watt powerLEDS grow journal, at day 58 flowering, and before, the tips of some of the buds are white and he figures its from the light being too close. These are big fat healthy looking buds other then that. 120 watts is a lot more intense then 28 watts.


 
What I'm saying is that it would take either heat, or improperly balanced nutrients to cause that reaction. Light that is in the proper spectrums and intensity of light won't do that.

I've had buds do that from heat damage when they are too close to a heat source. Are you sure this guy isn't also using another type of light?

IR damage will also do that. LEDs don't have enough IR or heat to do either.

"Bleaching" from light just doesn't happen. There is another cause. Unused photons just pass through or reflect from plants. There is nothing in the physical makeup of a photon that can cause this type of reaction.

Those 120 watt LEDs are made up of many small wattage, individual LEDs. Count the bulbs, divide by the total wattage and you have the output of each bulb. Probably either 1 or 2 watt LEDs.

Lets say it's the higher number. A 2 watt LED isn't strong enough to do any type of damage, even if it were within 1/100" of an inch of touching the plant matter. If you put 2 of them that close, still not happening. Put ten that close and it still won't happen. No way can you get 10 LED lights within 1/100th of an inch of the plant, because the bulbs take up too much room to get them that close.

Increasing the numbers of LED bulbs won't "combine" IR or heat output. They simply are too far from the plant to do anything harmful to them in the quantities of IR and heat that they produce.

Do you see what I'm saying?

addicted2grow has some other problem that you and he/she are unaware of, but I can absolutely assure you the LED lights are NOT bleaching the tops of the buds.

You can put 10 thousand watts of LEDs over one plant and it won't "bleach" anything. As long as the nutrients, oxygen and CO2 are of sufficient quantity to supply the needed growth rate that the light will enable the plant use, the plant would just grow like crazy.

Now, if you deprive the plant of any of those parts, it creates an imbalance that could cause it. 

Something lots of people don't understand is that when you radically increase the amount of light on a plant, it proportionally increases the cell activity in that plant that has to be supplied with the needed resources to utilize the ramped up photosynthesis and the resulting cell growth rate throughout the plant.

It's kind of like a child in one way; if you supply a kid with 500g of sugar, it will give them an insane amount of energy. If you block that child from using the energy by making them go to bed, thier body will revolt. It will have an overload of energy that it can't find an outlet for. The kid will upchuck all over it's bed and be sick feeling. The sugar didn't really *cause* the sickness, the lack of ability to USE the sugar did.

However, if you also give the kid a trampoline, a gym set and a room full of other kids to play with, the child then has a way to use all that energy it has now and no harm will result.

Its very similar with plants. If you give a plant a huge amount of light, you also have to provide it with a way to use that light or you'll create an imbalance within the plant. It's cell activity rate will exceed its store of nutrients, oxygen, water and CO2 and it will develop problems. 

In this case, it may have resulted in abnormal growth at the tops of the buds, where the plant sends the largest amount of growth hormones.

The light itself will not cause this bleached effect. Something else is, or a combination of other variables are.





.


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## babysnakess (May 12, 2011)

The leds are 3 watts x 90 = 120 watts. I pulled this out of an article word for word from someone who knows more about lighting then I do. Theres a top limit to the intensity that a plant can tolerate. Differs with strain, but at 91 LUX most plants stop growing the leaf will thicken here in da tropics as plants protect themselves from too much light there's a mechanism called thylakoids that will stack together, edge-on to the light which makes the leaves visibly thicker. All that "sunblocking" takes energy so growth slows. Above 91 LUX, light bleaching begins. The leaf turns paper white, I dunno if chlorphyl gets destroyed, or resorbed but the leaves never recover.


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## StoneyBud (May 12, 2011)

babysnakess said:
			
		

> The leds are 3 watts x 90 = 120 watts. I pulled this out of an article word for word from someone who knows more about lighting then I do. Theres a top limit to the intensity that a plant can tolerate. Differs with strain, but at 91 LUX most plants stop growing the leaf will thicken here in da tropics as plants protect themselves from too much light there's a mechanism called thylakoids that will stack together, edge-on to the light which makes the leaves visibly thicker. All that "sunblocking" takes energy so growth slows. Above 91 LUX, light bleaching begins. The leaf turns paper white, I dunno if chlorphyl gets destroyed, or resorbed but the leaves never recover.


 
3 watts x 90 bulbs equals 270 watts, not 120.

Again, the light is not causing the problem when this happens. The example you gave for the tropics is caused by IR light, not plant usable lumens.

No, there is NOT an upper limit to the amount of light that a plant will "tolerate" but there is one to how much light a plant can use.

There is no such thing as light bleaching from plant usable light and there surely isn't any problem an LED could cause.

I can see that you're not going to be convinced about this. I'll quit trying.

My Mom used to say "A man convinced against his will is of the same opinion still". 

You've been convinced of something that is impossible. Either you've misunderstood the information or the information itself is incorrect.

Good luck to you.


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## JustAnotherAntMarching (May 12, 2011)

Hey Stoney  You are very wise and up to date on your LEDs but i think your wrong...  take a look at this journal....  

hxxps://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=161259&page=3  

Ive been following it for over a year & the only plants from this growers chamber that produce the "fluffy bunny" (no chloryphyl sp?)  white tips are from under the LEDs....   

Seems like you might not be correct in your assumption that LEDs cant cause this...


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## StoneyBud (May 12, 2011)

JustAnotherAntMarching said:
			
		

> Hey Stoney You are very wise and up to date on your LEDs but i think your wrong... take a look at this journal....
> 
> hxxps://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=161259&page=3
> 
> ...


 
Chlorophyll production is highest when many plant processes work as nature intended. Several nutrients in conjunction with plant usable light are what make chlorophyll happen.

The only way to really settle this would be to dry and analyse the best green and also the parts of the plant missing the chlorophyll for their mineral content. That would immediately show what the differences are.

If you study exactly how chlorophyll is made by a plant and which minerals are responsible for it's production, you'll see that the minerals and thier balance are 99% of what makes chlorophyll happen properly.

Much like water in humans. It won't keep you alive all by itself, but without it, you'll die for sure. Light to a plant is the same. It takes all the parts to make the whole.

If, like the grower you use as an example says, the low-chlorophyll buds are only on the LED side of the plant, then that would lead me to believe that when a mineral study was done on that plant matter, those low-chlorophyll parts would show a marked lacking in one or more minerals which are responsible for chlorophyll production.

The reason the minerals in that part of the plant did not get used properly are what the real question is. It could be anything from physical stress, low-light in comparison to another part of the plant that has the HPS hitting it or a plant response to cell processes that are restricted somehow.

Again, the light itself cannot cause this. Not being aware of how chlorophyll production happens doesn't make it more likely that something impossible is happening.

Please, go to a person who is a plant biologist and ask them this specific question and you'll get the same answer I'm giving you:

"If a LED light is used where the strongest possible bulbs are packed as close as possible in the unit, and all minerals, water, oxygen and CO2 are in thier most favorable quantities, can the intensity of the LED light alone cause a lack of chlorophyll in the parts directly under the LEDs?"

Their answer will be no.

They will say that something is causing an imbalance of minerals which in turn is causing the processes withing the cells from functioning correctly.

What is causing the imbalance of minerals is the culprit.

It could be, (in this case), a problem that results from the uneven lighting from having HPS over part of the plant and LED over another part of the same plant. I could see where this may cause an imbalance within the plant of enzymes and hormones that could possibly extend to the imbalance of mineral take-up and in turn cause lockouts or deprivation response in some plant cells.

Like I said, the only way to tell would be to dry the parts and test them for mineral content. Once this was done, the end-cause of the lack of chlorophyll in those parts which show lower mineral content would be known, but then the root cause of the mineral difference would have to be investigated to find it's cause.

It should be clear from what I've said that it's not possible for the light by itself to be the root cause. It may be part of the problem, (light differences over the same plant), but I believe that there is no way for the LED light to be the root cause.


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## babysnakess (May 12, 2011)

Stony 120 watts is the power the light actually uses.


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## StoneyBud (May 12, 2011)

babysnakess said:
			
		

> Stony 120 watts is the power the light actually uses.


 
Can you give me a link to the actual light being used?

Thanks!

Hey, to make myself more clear, we all have our different opinions of how things work. We all have our different levels of learning about various things.

I would not pretend that I am absolutely correct in anything what-so-ever. I can be just as wrong as anyone else can.

In this case, I obviously think I'm correct. hehe


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## Growdude (May 12, 2011)

JustAnotherAntMarching said:
			
		

> Hey Stoney You are very wise and up to date on your LEDs but i think your wrong... take a look at this journal....
> 
> hxxps://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=161259&page=3
> 
> ...


 
From post #36  "i get these gnarley white fraggle head crystaline entity nugget tops on the LED side of my closet... perhaps the LED/HPS combo is a bit much... blows out the chlorophyll somehow..."


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## babysnakess (May 12, 2011)

the light is a powerLed from ledgrow.se. se. = sweden. I checked out the site and its not in english. The 120 watt is only about 340 dollars addicted 2 grow wrote. Most leds seem expensive as hell and over hyped by the sellers. But if I had the money I might try these for a summer grow due to heat. But I'm inclined to think that any intense led too close to the plant would have the same effect.


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 12, 2011)

babysnakess said:
			
		

> Stony 120 watts is the power the light actually uses.



That is not possible or correct.  Ninety 3 watts bulbs are going to use 270(+) watts.


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## babysnakess (May 13, 2011)

Someone from another forum said that he went to california and saw the sg602 and a 1000 watt horilux doing a side by side  grow and from what he saw the led is out performing the horilux. Leds are changing fast and maybe in a couple of years or less the price will justify buying one. If you go to the stealhgrow site it will say the wattage of the sg 602 is 600, but the actual power draw is 350 watts.


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## StoneyBud (May 13, 2011)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> That is not possible or correct. Ninety 3 watts bulbs are going to use 270(+) watts.


 
Hey THG, from the research I've done on this product, I've found that it's made of 40ea, 3w chips that draw 180 watts of power and provide 120 watts of output to the diodes.

The information was scattered across several tech forums about LEDs. 

The chips used are a standard, Chinese made product that is an effort to reduce labor costs and manufacturing costs by combining the power circuitry for LED lights into 3 watt chips that supply 3ea, 1 watt LEDs. The reduces the amount of components and labor to attach them.

The electronics techs that have reviewed the 3W3chips aren't favorably impressed with the design or function of the chips.

It seems to be a consensus of opinion among the techies that standard 1 watt chips have better quality and less risk, as if one chip goes out, only one bulb goes out, contrary to the 3 watt chip that will make 3 lights go out for each chip failure.

That's about all I've found about that particular product so far. I'll post any other info I find.


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## StoneyBud (May 13, 2011)

babysnakess said:
			
		

> Someone from another forum said...


 
Babysnakess, please don't take this as anything but my opinion. I don't pay much attention to the "he-said-she-said-she-knows-someone-who knows-someone-who-saw-someone-who-knows-someone type of information. It's almost always distorted in it's path to print and generally either missing information or giving incorrect information.

When I hear information that is second hand, (from the person who did it to one other person who told me), I still research it before believing it. Third hand and fourth hand information is something I pay almost no attention to other than as a starting point for investigating the data.

I've used LEDs now for 3 vegging crops. I'm using 28 watt panels that are resulting in great growth characteristics. The branching and node formation has impressed me. That's why I've decided to use them for each crop now.

However, I see the higher powered LEDs as nothing more than a scam. They cost too much and use too much power. HID lights of comparable power will grow MJ with less up-front costs and with great results.

The benefits of LED growing are saved power and less heat. The power conversion from source to output does create some heat, (all power conversions do), and using the same amount of power with an LED as what a HID requires seems crazy to me.

That's why I chose to use the 28 watt panels for vegging only and have had wonderful results with them.

It also helps that I used to be a NASA certified Electronics Technician and have built and performed troubleshooting on equipment used in the Shuttles and other advanced aircraft. I understand the technology.

My experience is now outdated, but the basics haven't changed. LED technology is pretty basic stuff so far. Nothing "High-Tech" about it really, beyond the bulbs themselves. The power circuitry used to light them is the same stuff used 20 years ago, in a new box.


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## babysnakess (May 14, 2011)

I would like to use the 28 watt panels for veg  too. I read someone is using them to supplement a 400 watt hps in fowering and they're working great.


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## babysnakess (May 14, 2011)

Verticle side lighting.


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## StoneyBud (May 14, 2011)

babysnakess said:
			
		

> I would like to use the 28 watt panels for veg too. I read someone is using them to supplement a 400 watt hps in flowering and they're working great.


If you'd like to watch the progress of 8 plants with each having a single 28 LED over them and no other lighting for vegging, post 21 in this thread: http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56230 
is a good place to start. Then you can watch how they work without any risk. I'll be taking new pics each week and measuring each plant's height.


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## sallyliao (May 19, 2011)

The panels that use 3watt LED seem to be the best choice according to a couple other using them that I talk to else where.


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## Roddy (May 23, 2011)

I have been very busy, so I haven't had much time to post in the forums lately....but did have an update on an LED experiment a local grower has been doing. The guy bought 6 150w cannister style LED's to use for budding, seems that isn't enough though since I note he has ordered 2 4'x8 bulb BLOOM T5's to supplement....and heard he was considering a 350w cannister style LED as well.

Seems he isn't having the success he had hoped lol


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## The Hemp Goddess (May 24, 2011)

So, am I understanding this right--he is using 900W now (6 x 150W), has ordered 2 8 bulb T5s, another 864W (16 x 54W), and is considering adding another 350W?


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## bho_expertz (May 24, 2011)

Roddy said:
			
		

> I have been very busy, so I haven't had much time to post in the forums lately....but did have an update on an LED experiment a local grower has been doing. The guy bought 6 150w cannister style LED's to use for budding, seems that isn't enough though since I note he has ordered 2 4'x8 bulb BLOOM T5's to supplement....and heard he was considering a 350w cannister style LED as well.
> 
> Seems he isn't having the success he had hoped lol


 
:holysheep: that is some serious money thrown away ...


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## Roddy (May 24, 2011)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> So, am I understanding this right--he is using 900W now (6 x 150W), has ordered 2 8 bulb T5s, another 864W (16 x 54W), and is considering adding another 350W?



That would be my understanding! I also understand it that there won't be a time=lapse video of this experiment as he had advertised either...

Yes BHO....HUGE waste of money IMHO!


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## Zerdog (May 30, 2011)

Ranek Icewalker said:
			
		

> Im not shying away from dropping some cash up front if they Work, anything is better than the aggravation of suffering through heat issues and ending up with bud that wasnt worth the time or money spent to grow because its Airy and wispy.
> 
> Really does seem hit and miss with the LED panels, ive looked into the 357 Magnums, a fella on RIU uses them and his yields are .9 per watt, or so he claims, ive seen the GJs and they look amazing, only problem is i dont know or trust the guy to not be a LED salesman
> 
> Thanks all.


  Try these links. www.led4growth.com or www.lightpros.com check out the inda-grow 400 plasma lighting with a 10 year warrenty. The LG plasma is the best with microwave technology. It looks to have a very intense but narrow coverage area. A light mover would make this perfect. It also Mimics sunlight.  This is the future of indoor growing. I am using LED and I just started to flower. Tight nodes, Very hearty buds everywhere with a 350 watt and suplimenting the lower canopy by dropping a few 90's inbetween. (I need a light mover) As soon as I figure how to post pictures on here I'll share. Plus pass on my harvest results.


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