# Nutrient Deficiency?!?!  DIAGNOSIS NEEDED!  Lots of pics!



## 215zealot (Dec 28, 2008)

*First, the details *
-3 weeks into flowering under (2) 400 watt HPS lights

-COCO COIR w/ Hydroclay watered 3 times every 24 hours

-Lucas Formula GH Micro + Bloom, w epsom salt, florablend vegan compost tea. Distilled water, PH balanced.

-PH is always 5.5-6.5, humidity around 50

Ok, now onto the pics, and my thoughts on their diagnosis.  I really need your help guys in figuring out why my plants keep losing their lower fans to this yellowness.  The leaves first turn yellowish with purple stems, then they shrivel up and are dead within a week.  

According to my Book on growing, the leaves look like they are suffering Phosphourus deficiency, because dark blotchy spots occur on some of the leaves.  However, the plants are being dosed with 16ml of Bloom, so how is this possible?   Is there a nutrient block out of some kind??   What can i do??


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## 215zealot (Dec 28, 2008)

And one last question, here is a pic of my top fan leaves that still show nice green color, however, they seem to be showing signs of nute burn correct??  We only recently increasing dosage to full strengh.

We are currently flushing them for a day or two with plain distilled water thats balanced, then i plan to increase it back to full strengh slowly.


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## andy52 (Dec 28, 2008)

i never let the ph get over 5.8. you may have a nute lock if your ph is getting too high.i try to start out me res at 5.5,just in case it might rise some.looks like a ph problem to me.


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## 215zealot (Dec 29, 2008)

I went to the hydro shop and they told me that i am experiancing normal leaf loss due to colder weather right now, he told me alot of people were experiancing the same thing and also i have been hearing myself about this.

in the meantime, i am upping the cal/mag dose because coco coir is known to lock out these nutes.


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## BuddyLuv (Dec 29, 2008)

That is a pH problem, you are locking out Calcium or Magnesium. I would try keeping your pH at about 5.9-6.0 for a few days to see if it stops on the new growth. The old growth will never look the same, once the damage is done it is done. I always let my res pH drift from 5.5-6.2, this allows all of the nutrients and disolved solids to be available throughout the day. And yes my pH drifts about .7 a day.


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## Alistair (Dec 29, 2008)

I don't know much about hydro, but I do know that all my reading tells me to use water, pH 5.3-5.8. I agree with Andy, I think some of your nutrients might be locked out because the pH is off.  Again, from the literature I've seen on the subject of nutrients, it is often advised to first check the pH before assuming you have a nutrient deficiency. I read somewhere on this site that 9 times out of 10, what appears to be a deficiency is often some other variable that brings about nutrient lockout. 

Here's a link to a pH versus nutrient availability graph.  This graph suggests a pH range of 5.5-6.1

hxxp://www.gardenscure.com/420/attachments/hydroponics/128649d1116061394-ph-level-nutrient_chart.gif

Replace the "xx" of the "hxxp" in the url with "tt".  That's funny what I just said!


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## jimmycricket (Dec 29, 2008)

u got to keep your rm at a concistant temp and buffer ur ph tester  it should read 7.1in buffer if not replace tip


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## Hick (Dec 29, 2008)

Alistair Young said:
			
		

> I don't know much about hydro, but I do know that all my reading tells me to use water, pH 5.3-5.8. I agree with Andy, I think some of your nutrients might be locked out because the pH is off.  Again, from the literature I've seen on the subject of nutrients, it is often advised to first check the pH before assuming you have a nutrient deficiency. I read somewhere on this site that 9 times out of 10, what appears to be a deficiency is often some other variable that brings about nutrient lockout.
> 
> Here's a link to a pH versus nutrient availability graph.  This graph suggests a pH range of 5.5-6.1
> 
> ...



We have stickies in both the indoor and outdoor sections..
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10083


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## Metro (Dec 29, 2008)

3 Weeks in flower, it appears you have N lock-out also.
As stated, your PH needs to be in the 5.5 - 6.2 range. Shoot for 5.8.
IMO the Lucas formula can work for some strains and not for others. It's best to use all three (Grow,Micro,Bloom) I would never use Epsom on a reg. basis. Get some Cal-Mag+.


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## 215zealot (Dec 29, 2008)

Ok, im backing off the epsomn salt, im using the Cal+Mag supplement.

My PH is always balanced in the res but i guess the PH might change when i filters thruogh the coco coir, how do you prevent this?


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## BUDISGUD (Dec 31, 2008)

215zealot said:
			
		

> Ok, im backing off the epsomn salt, im using the Cal+Mag supplement.
> 
> My PH is always balanced in the res but i guess the PH might change when i filters thruogh the coco coir, how do you prevent this?


 
i beleive coco coir is practically ph neutral


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## BuddyLuv (Dec 31, 2008)

Actually coco coir can be anywhere from 5.7-6.5. (replace "xx" w/ "tt")
hxxp://www.hydroponics-gardening-information.com/Coco.html


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## Hick (Jan 1, 2009)

BuddyLuv said:
			
		

> Actually coco coir can be anywhere from 5.7-6.5. (replace "xx" w/ "tt")
> hxxp://www.hydroponics-gardening-information.com/Coco.html


dead link bro'..


..zealot.. your fungus gnat problem could be contributing to this issue, also...


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jan 1, 2009)

215zealot said:
			
		

> I went to the hydro shop and they told me that i am experiancing normal leaf loss due to colder weather right now, he told me alot of people were experiancing the same thing and also i have been hearing myself about this.
> 
> in the meantime, i am upping the cal/mag dose because coco coir is known to lock out these nutes.


 

Please give link to where you got the information that states coco coir is known to lock out nutes?  IMO..it is neutral  and IMO..you should read up on its cation exchange..  just my thaughts:bolt::bong:


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## Vegs (Jan 1, 2009)

This doesn't make it right or wrong, but I never have an issue with Ph levels. I could be wrong but I think it is because I only use Distilled Water. 

But then nute burn is another topic all together. Because of that, I use less then 50% (sometimes 70% less) of the amount recommended by the manufacturer (General Hydroponics 3 part mix solution including Kool Bloom).


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## BuddyLuv (Jan 1, 2009)

Hick said:
			
		

> dead link bro'..
> 
> 
> ..zealot.. your fungus gnat problem could be contributing to this issue, also...


 
I just followed it right to the site, works for me. Maybe it is your browser.

Here:
http://www.hydroponics-gardening-information.com/Coco.html


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## andy52 (Jan 1, 2009)

thats why i like my dwc setup.if i start having issues,i immediately change my res.if i have to run straight ph'd water for a day or so.then go back to my schedule of nutes.jmo


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## BuddyLuv (Jan 1, 2009)

I use RO water and I still get drift. It all depends on what nutes I am dumping in the res and how the plants are growing and what stage. yadda yadda yadda.


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