# Week old seedlings with droopy leaves



## sMACkaddict (Oct 1, 2012)

*Hey, got these week old seedlings and they are starting to claw a little bit.  I have been careful to only water when the cups get light, but it looks like overwatering... here are the tails(most people say deets, parks n rec anyone?):*


*Strain:* Bagseed (maybe the problem? But don't blame it on that as a copout!)
*Grow Room:* HTG supply Mother Keeper Tent (2'Dx4'Hx4'W)
*Medium: *Promix General All purpose, amended with more perlite
*Pots:* 16 oz Solo cups
*Lighting:* 2 4ft 32w t8 bulbs 5000k ( I have 4 actually, but the plants are so small they are only lit by 2 bulbs) on a 24/0 light cycle
*Nutes:* NONE!  what are you crazy?? theyre just babies!
*Ventilation:*Intake and exhaust fan, the exhaust is 1.5x as powerful as the intake... could that be a problem?  Also have an oscillating tower fan to circulate the air in the tent
*Watering:*  I water till runoff, only once the cups feel light, which seems to be about every 2 to 3 days
*Temps/rH:*  Very stable temps at 80&#730;, maybe drops to 78&#730; at most during the night.  rH ranges from 35% to 60%(after watering i think).

*I dont think there is anything else to tell you...  ask away please!

These 4 plants were watered about just over 1 day ago at the time of the photo.  They were watered 2-3 days before that as well...










Thank you*

sMACk


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## tastyness (Oct 1, 2012)

sMACK,
I think that is way too much water for seedlings.  I think you are overwhelming the roots.  When mine are that size I controlled how much water I gave them and tried to water evenly around the edges of the cup.  
What is the longest time you've let them dry out between waterings?


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 1, 2012)

tastyness said:
			
		

> What is the longest time you've let them dry out between waterings?



*3 or 4 days... that is too often??  wow, I thought I was being good about not overwatering...*


sMACk


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 2, 2012)

Drooping leaves like that is an indication of overwatering.  How is your humidity.  With high humidity, your plants require a lot less water.  Of course, it could be something else, I am just not sure what...


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 2, 2012)

*the rH stays mostly around 40% but varies a little, as stated in the original post...*


sMACk


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 2, 2012)

*I looked over my physical grow journal and it looks like 3 days i the longest I've gone between waterings... I am going to assume the problem is overwatering and hold off a little longer till the next watering.

Just dropped 10 mo beans in a cup of water, maybe I can do right by these ones from the get go...
*
sMACk


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## Growdude (Oct 2, 2012)

sMACkaddict said:
			
		

> *3 or 4 days... that is too often?? wow, I thought I was being good about not overwatering...*
> 
> sMACk


 
It all depends on how much your medium holds or how well it drains.

But unless its getting soggy 3-4 days should be ok.


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 2, 2012)

*thanks gdude, I will see how they do after letting em go a little longer for a couple waterings... so get to you guys in a week or two I guess...

thanks again tasty, THG, and Growdude!*

sMACk


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## gourmet (Oct 2, 2012)

I had an old water meter around from my indoor plant collection days.  It works pretty well.  I can tell how wet the subsurface is without sticking my finger down in it.  It is particularly good for seedlings as I don't risk disturbing the roots as much.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 2, 2012)

No, I don't get that long.  I generally watered every day or every other day.  However, I fight low RH all the time.  This summer, it got down to 10% sometimes.


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 2, 2012)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> No, I don't get that long.  I generally watered every day or every other day.  However, I fight low RH all the time.  This summer, it got down to 10% sometimes.



*So, could I be under watering?

Maybe because I am working with bagseed in a very hot dry climate, the strain(s) I'm working with are easily overwatered or something?  Is that even possible or reasonable to believe?

  I am letting them go till late tonight, which will be at least 3 days without watering for all seedlings involved.  Maybe I'll go 50/50 to see which avenue works, i.e., watering/not watering tonight, as I have another batch of 10 seeds being prepped to sow already.*

sMACk


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 2, 2012)

*Also,

I tried watering one plant with a tray underneath it, to see if the medium wasnt being fully saturated.  I left it for a little over an over and none of the water was reabsorbed by the medium.*

sMACk


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 2, 2012)

I do things a little differently(since I am in coco). I only water newer seedlings with an eyedropper in a ring around the seedling so that I am not putting water directly on the roots. typically about 10ml every 24hrs for about 5 days then I double that to 20ml for another 5days, then I transplant after that and start feeding light nutes. But I never soak my medium during the early stages 

I would try a couple of them one way then a couple another way and see what happens


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 2, 2012)

*THG,
 I think I remember you saying that you sow directly into solo cups like I did.  Could you give me an outline of how you water your seedlings?  THanks for the help everyone!  I guess my thumbs not as green as I hoped!
*
sMACk


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 2, 2012)

*Could I need to add some nutrients?? They are yellowing which lead me to believe that it IS overwatering and N is being locked out... but these are over a week now, and my medium has no nutrients in it...*

sMACk


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## Hushpuppy (Oct 3, 2012)

If the soil has no nutrients in it then you shouldn't be seeing any nitrogen lockout as there wouldn't be any nitrogen in it. I have been looking closely at the pics and while I am no expert by any stretch of the imagination, I am thinking that the soil does have nutrients in it. I know you said its promix and has no nutes, But I can see a lot of organic matter in that soil and given the darker curling leaves of the plant in that material, I would be willing to bet that it is overnuting rather than undernuting or overwatering(which could be lending to the problem). 

It could be that you made a mistake and put the wrong soil in the cups, or the wrong soil was put in the bag at the factory. That is why it is good to start seedlings out in the nuteless starter cubes like rapid rooters or rockwool cubes, or in coco which is completely neutral.

On these plants, the only thing I can tell you is to wait it out and see. On the new beans, definitely put them in the rapid rooters, RWcubes, or coco.


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 3, 2012)

hmmmm....  This soil had been sitting out in an open bag and it has rained a bit lately...  Could that cause this?


sMACk


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## TwoHighCrimes (Oct 3, 2012)

Hello smack i also agree with hushpuppy and i agree that your soil does contain nutes or certainly a slow release fert . 100% certified organic soil allows your first 3-4 sets of leaves to thrive larger and much healthier before requireing a light feed of nitrogen and a dash of mag occasionally . Sorry for the unfortunate news jmo ! Oh and watering causes the ferts to realese at a faster rate and if your bag has been in the rain my guess will be that your soil is to hot ( over ferted ) and stunting will continue . Tough plants they are repot them in certified soil fer sure .


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 3, 2012)

*hmmm, I can't get organic soil here.  I know the promix has peat moss in it, is that a source of nutrients?  Besides perlite and dolomite lime and a "wetting agent", thats all that is in the soil... I agree that it must be due to the rain... I am going to get a new bag of pro mix today and iwll use it on the new seeds...

Thanks Hush and 2High for the help!*

This is my soil:
http://www.growingyourpassion.com/en/pro-mix-all-purpose-growing-mix/

sMACk


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## TwoHighCrimes (Oct 3, 2012)

Hey smack it also seems that this promix can have severe ph problems as well hows your runoff ? And is your water ph checked ? Imma throw that out there just as a precaution yet you may also have the first bag of a new run i.e tailings of another product ..kinda looks like hot soil as hushpuppy has said . All the best friend .


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 3, 2012)

*Well, the tap water in the area has a pH of 8+ and is not potable, which makes me thing the rain might be a little strong as well... does that logic make sense?  
I think it is more likely due to the soil being fully saturated with this rain a couple times than a mixup with the company... unless that is more likely than I assume.  what do you think 2High?*

sMACk


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## TwoHighCrimes (Oct 3, 2012)

Hmm ph is indeed an important measure duuring all growth stages . Personally i also soak water crystals  to rectify the ph of them and to also flush any unwanted chemicals away . Peat can also be slightly alkaline . Although your soil does contain dolimite to balance the ph . We should also consider the amounts added per bag and we could assume that every bag is'nt identical . That said ... Is it possible to check your run off ? Another thing to consider is your water storage tank and guttering which may feed to your tank occasionally rusted tanks or gutter systems can cause the water to also become alkaline . I urge you to check your soil run off because this will also cause similiar symptoms . Rather than overwater use the same soil in another pot without a seedling and test that soils ph level .


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 3, 2012)

hmmm okay I will try that in a little bit... 

thanks

sMACk


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## HemperFi (Oct 3, 2012)

I think you are under watering. How do you determine when it is time to water? My seedlings need water more often than every three days, and it is my understanding that the symptoms of under watering are just about the same as if you over water. I simply pick up the cup (or pot) to determine when it is time to water. If the cup is real light it is time to water -- if it is still a little heavy I put off watering until it is light -- I don't know about nutes or PH, and I suppose it could be one of those things, but I'm betting you are under watering -- especially if you are only watering them every three days. JMO....

Peace


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## sMACkaddict (Oct 3, 2012)

HemperFi said:
			
		

> I think you are under watering. How do you determine when it is time to water? My seedlings need water more often than every three days, and it is my understanding that the symptoms of under watering are just about the same as if you over water. I simply pick up the cup (or pot) to determine when it is time to water. If the cup is real light it is time to water -- if it is still a little heavy I put off watering until it is light -- I don't know about nutes or PH, and I suppose it could be one of those things, but I'm betting you are under watering -- especially if you are only watering them every three days. JMO....
> 
> Peace



Did you use solo/dixie/party/16oz cups?

I lift the cups and do a finger check...

I hesitated to ask if underwatering could be the issue... but I know what you mean.  Not that I have the most experience, but I have had some,and I didnt think I was watering too much really, but everything pointed to that... 

I raised the lights little and let them get a little drier before wtering this round...we'll see what happens...

thanks hemper

sMACk


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## tastyness (Oct 3, 2012)

sMACkaddict said:
			
		

> *So, could I be under watering?
> 
> Maybe because I am working with bagseed in a very hot dry climate, the strain(s) I'm working with are easily overwatered or something?  Is that even possible or reasonable to believe?
> 
> ...




Good idea- experimentation and comparison have helped me a lot in learning what to do with my girls.  What I would do more of in the future is treat each strain a bit more individually.  Everyone in basically on the same program.  I needed to keep variables under control this time.

Eager to hear how it turns out.  
I too am letting mine go a little longer without water after NC pointed out my leaves looked a little droopy.  I'm  wondering if I've been overwatering my White Rhino the whole time.  I've got 4 clones of her- so let the mad scientist in me loose.


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