# need helps please



## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

hi, i am a medical provider for my girlfriend and this is my second grow in a grow tent alont with my last grow i am having the same problem, i am at the start of week three in flower and the buds are loosing thier white hairs and basically look like they are dieng on 30% of my plants,does anyone ave an idea on what this might be?  i use coco coir and soul synthetics bloom, does this have to do with over watering i dont think so because i water every 2 to 3 days? or possibly poor ventilaton or light being to low? my rh are good ranging from 30-45, any advice would be greatly apriciated. what i have done at the moment to see if i can fix this problem is 1 i raised the light in the tent, 2  have started to water more often due to coco coir needing to be constantly wet which i was unaware of, and i just ordered a new ventalation fan which i hope is stronger than the one i have (which sucks), my ph i try to keep between 5 and 6.


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## Rosebud (Feb 27, 2015)

Hi Happyhunter, welcome to MP. Could we see a picture please?


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## next (Feb 27, 2015)

All 3 of those things could cause the problems, if the plants aren't wilting they aren't too dry, could be getting crisped by the light, and im not sure of lack of ventilation but im sure that could make your plants do some funky things. What are your temps? If your growing in a tent, it should have decent ventilation as long as you have some sort of extraction fan in there


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## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

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## Rosebud (Feb 27, 2015)

I know nothing about coco. Your plants look hungry to me and like the ph must be off.

You need to have a fan blowing on the plants, not just above the canopy.  Are they really that light? Thanks for posting. we have much smarter people then me that will be along to help you.


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## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

there is a fan that i put on them that blows in during the day, temps range from 55 at night to 85 durring day the tent was getting much warmer and i had it closed with poor circulation but i quickly changed this about a week ago and started opening it durring the day leading to lower temps and more air circulation and i know they look hungry cause last time i burnt the heck out of them so i have put more hesitation in feeding, but i have stepped up nutes and they did make a substantial difference over night, and no my ph is between 5 and 6 is what  my soil and forums say to do online, my problem im trying to figure out is if you look at the pics u can see the difference in the buds that have their white hairs and the ones that look like they are basically wilting and have lost the hairs, im trying to find out if i should take these out and give more room to the ones in the tent or wait it out and see if the buds grow back because before they didnt, but that was before i had access to a ph tester and over nutes way too much, i have looked deep into trying to find similar pictures of buds like this and have found nothing that looks similar, i am really trying to learn how to grow nice buds, and this is frustrating me greatly


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## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

p.s the fan above it for keeping the temp on the bulb down, and if u can see the white vent tube thats where my air comes in from outside


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## next (Feb 27, 2015)

I think this is heat stress, could probly use more light and more nutes as well

55f is pretty chilly for night time.. shouldn't be much lower than or 60-65. Rule of thumb is to try for approx 10' difference between night and day, you have a 30' difference.

Try to think of it like this.. would you be comfortable in your tent?

I suggest getting your night time temps up 10' (They make some decent space heaters for small spaces, just be careful using a heater inside an enclosed space. Make sure it has a good thermostat, and not going to melt/burn something infront of it.) I have used coffee cup warmers, and seed mats in the past.

Hopefully your new ventilation fan will drop your daytime temps 5', they shouldn't be any higher than 80.

As for the fan blowing on the light.. its essentially working like a heater, blowing air over a hot element and moving it around your tent. Your better off like Rose says to drop the fan so its blowing over the tops of the leaves. Let the hot air rise naturally, and be sucked out of the tent via your extraction fan that should be at the very top of your tent. 

Your lightbulb was made to get hot, if you really want a decent setup you should get an enclosed hood for your light, or build yourself a cooltube. Really simply and efficient, you can find plans anywhere.

Goodluck bud,

p.s any experience is a good experience, as long as you learn something.


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## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

i see the heat part but a 400 w light covers 4sq ft as where a 1000 covers 8 sq ft, i highly doubt there is a lack of light, i will start making sure the temp is at least 60 durring the night


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## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

soory i didnt see the rest of your post just the beginning and alright i will lower the smaller fan,  raise the vent, whats your advice on the ones that the buds are messed up on keep them in or take them out? and do you think it is over crowded?


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## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

another question sorryting air , so if i have a fan venting air out and one venting air in, which would i want the stronger fan doing?


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## happyhunter (Feb 27, 2015)

and rose bud yeah they are,


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## next (Feb 28, 2015)

happyhunter said:


> i see the heat part but a 400 w light covers 4sq ft as where a 1000 covers 8 sq ft, i highly doubt there is a lack of light, i will start making sure the temp is at least 60 durring the night



You can have a 10,000 watt light, if its not close enough to your plants its not enough light. I wasn't aware the size of your light, just the internodal spacing of your plants. For your 400watt light, its good for 3x3 or 4x4 max. Ideally it should be about 12" above the canopy, but that is only if temperature allows for it. I would say 18" is the highest above the canopy you should go.

Your plants aren't overcrowded at the moment, but they aren't very big plants, kinda spindly. So I think they are fine. Might only get 3-4 happy plants in there tho, when you get things straightened out.

As for the two fans, one in and one out, you are better off having 2 out, rather than 1 in and 1 out. There are many reasons, its more efficient to exhaust the hot air out because it naturally rises to the top of the tent. Also creating negative air pressure inside the tent actually cools it off, same as a the condenser on a refrigerator. Positive air pressure creates heat, not much but a little, like when you fill up an air compressor. You don't want that. If you want odor control, you can't have that without negative air pressure. Your tent has a passive intake on the bottom, it allows air to enter more freely rather than blasted in one spot by a fan. Ideally you should use your two fans as exhaust, one to exhaust your light that is in a cooltube/enclosed hood, and the other to exhaust the stale air inside the tent. My tent runs much better zipped up, if your going to unzip yours during the day make sure you only unzip the bottom portion to allow cool fresh air in. Your exhaust fan will suck the closest air it can find, and if your tent is wide open it will have no effect on the bottom of the tent.


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## next (Feb 28, 2015)

It looks like the most damage happened directly under the light.. which leads me to believe its heat stress. I've never experienced heat stress before, but I do think they have a chance. No use pulling them out of the tent unless you have something to replace them with, sometimes a sick plant will make a miraculous comeback.


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## next (Feb 28, 2015)

what nutes are you using? not miracle grow..? it can do funky things to your pants


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## happyhunter (Feb 28, 2015)

im using coco coir and soul synthetics bloom fertilizer (i make a potion) from that ive read i should have mixed it with perylite but i didnt so its 100% coco coir, yeah im honestly ashamed of myself because my one fan i have atm is blowing air in instead of out so that is going to be my first priority tomorrow as soon as the lights turn on tomorrow morning, bottle on my flower fert says to give 10 ml  per gallon i just started giving the plants 2 gallon for all 8 when i water instead of one gallon, i also after reading the  above posts lowered the fan and raised the vent tube to the top of the tent before the lights turned out tonight,  and i know the plants are whispey kinda cause i got them for free, well i technically traded one lamb next fall for them they are black pearl and durban poision, dp being the one with the complications, by the way i have a 1000 watt i could throw in which is what i tried at the beginning of my first try but it was way to hot, so i should cool the temp way down and lower the light then? i had it lower until this burn started happening then i raised it just to be safe


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## The Hemp Goddess (Feb 28, 2015)

Tell us more about your nutrients.  For instance what is the N-P-K?  I could find very little info on them and what I did find was not terribly favorable.  Curious how you decided on these nutes?  

How large a light are you running?  And is it a MH or HPS?  How big is your tent?  Your light needs to be way closer.  I have a 1000W that I keep about 12" away from the canopy.  If your light has been that far away the entire time, that is why they are stretching.  I am not sure where you got your information on what a certain light will cover, but a 400W will cover about 9-10 sq ft.  A 1000W will cover about 25-28 sq ft.   

Oscillating fans are meant to be used to move the air around and to help create strong stems (so should be blowing at the ants).  They are virtually useless for cooling purposes.  For that you need some kind of centrifuge type fan like this:  [ame]http://www.amazon.com/Active-Air-400-Inline-6-Inch/dp/B00KWYJQYA/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1425135470&sr=8-3&keywords=6%22+fan[/ame]  To be able to keep the light close enough you NEED a centrifuge type exhaust fan.  I also find it quite hard to control the temps without an air cooled hood.  You may have to invest in one.  But exhaust fans are not simply for cooling purposes.  You really need to exhaust your air at least once every couple of minutes and most of us do it more.  This means extracting old air out and bringing fresh air in.  

I do not use coco, so my knowledge is also limited, but I do remember that when using coco you often need to add cal-mag.

I think that the major problems with these plants are heat too high, light too far away, lack of proper ventilation, and nutrients.


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## happyhunter (Feb 28, 2015)

yes the calmag thing is said but thats common with older brands of cococoir. it has changed from what ive read, i have a 400 w hsp running however i do have a 1000 im not using and i have hsp and mh for that, as far as nutes just this last week ive started feeding every time because before i went periods with giving just water is why the nute problem kicked in, i got my nutes by asking the guy at the store which one in his opinion was good, it says in early bloom to give 10 ml per gallon i now just water as needed keeping the soil wet like it says to do with cococoir, it being a soil version of hydroponics basically, its ingredients say 1.5%nitrogen available phosphate 4.5% soluble potash 3.0% CA 1.0% mg 0.75% iron 0.1%, derived from bat guano extract, alfalfa extract kelp extract yuca extract molasses potassium nitrate mono potassium  phosphate calcium nitrate iron EDTA and magnesium nitrate,


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## happyhunter (Feb 28, 2015)

i think the npk is the numbers on the side right? such as on mine it says 1.5-4.5-3?


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## next (Feb 28, 2015)

"it says in early bloom to give 10 ml per gallon i now just water as needed keeping the soil wet like it says to do with cococoir"

Not 100% sure I understand this, but something here is fishy..

"i just started giving the plants 2 gallon for all 8 when i water instead of one gallon"

When your bottle says to use 10ml per gallon of water in early bloom, you don't just do that once, then continue watering.. you need to add nutes to your water everytime you water.(or atleast every other time) You also need to have run-off coming out the bottom of your pots as well, to flush the old nutes out. The run off is very important, when you add nutrients to the water, your plant takes what it needs, and leaves behind the stuff it doesn't need, as well as salts, if you don't get rid of that with having proper run off, you end up with toxic buildup inside the medium


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 1, 2015)

Are you sure you have a HPS bulb in your light?  HPS generally gives off a yellow glow when pictures are taken with the light on.  

You need an exhaust fan to control heat so that you can get the light close to the plants.  With the light that far away, you are losing a huge amount of light power by the time it reaches the plants.  You need to be able to get that light right down close to the canopy of the plants--a foot or so away.  If heat prevents that, you need to control the heat, not move the light further away.

The N-P-K sounds about right for flowering, but I am not familiar with that brand.


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## Kraven (Mar 1, 2015)

Proper light distance with a 400 watt HPS.


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## happyhunter (Mar 3, 2015)

yeah im positive its hsp, looks exactly the same as the hsp bulb i have for my 1,00 but smaller. the  and i got my new vent its keeping temps, i lowered the light a little bit but not to far because of the damage done to the plants due to the light burn, basically 40% of the buds lost their white hairs and look brown, however, from the changes ive made i do see improvement on the buds that are still going strong which seems to be my black pearl strain,  im just curious if the other buds will make a come back or if they are done for.


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## happyhunter (Mar 3, 2015)

p.s is there anyway i can jimmy rig my 400 to re direct the heat?


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## happyhunter (Mar 3, 2015)

so i will post updated pics today, but i basically lowered the light and moved the healthiest plants directly under it so they can get the most light


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## The Hemp Goddess (Mar 3, 2015)

happyhunter said:


> yeah im positive its hsp, looks exactly the same as the hsp bulb i have for my 1,00 but smaller. the and i got my new vent its keeping temps, i lowered the light a little bit but not to far because of the damage done to the plants due to the light burn, basically 40% of the buds lost their white hairs and look brown, however, from the changes ive made i do see improvement on the buds that are still going strong which seems to be my black pearl strain, im just curious if the other buds will make a come back or if they are done for.


 
Well, I have a 400 metal halide that looks exactly like my 1000W HPS, only smaller....but it is not a HPS, it is a MH.  Check out Kraven's post--see how the light gives a yellowish tinge to things?  That is the way HPS photographs.  Metal halide photographs as white light.  NJot all of them are bulbous shaped:  [ame]http://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLBULBM400-400-Watt-Magnetic-Digital/dp/B00701KVH4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1425410832&sr=8-2&keywords=400W+metal+halide[/ame]


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## happyhunter (Mar 3, 2015)

its labeled LU400w which comes up online as hsp i had my mh on my 1000 for a while and it looked different, could be cause my bedroom light was on to and i was using a crappy camra.


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 4, 2015)

Just because you've said it a few times, I'm going to throw the grammatical correction out there. 

It's HPS not HSP. 

HPS is an acronym for High Pressure Sodium :aok:  Phew!!! Now I feel better hah! Sorry, I'm the grammar freak around here. Well, actually... around everywhere.


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## happyhunter (Mar 4, 2015)

yeah thats what i meant sorry im not very good at typing


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## Dr. Green Fang (Mar 4, 2015)

No it's ok, and normally I do not say anything. I just had seen you write that acronym a few times, so wanted to make sure you were "in the know" you know?  :aok:


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## happyhunter (Mar 5, 2015)

for sure


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## echO (Mar 13, 2015)

this might be waaaaaay out there as a possibility to your problems:

I dont like the look of what you are using for ventilation ducting....That cheap white plastic hosing that I think is intended for dryers.... 

Its not likely but possible that plastic is 'off-gassing' and your plants dont like it.

Like I said, maybe waaay out there as a possibility but id reccomend replacing it with some ducting that is intended for gardening.


did you get that stuff from wallyworld? just curious....


good luck!


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## WeedHopper (Mar 13, 2015)

Dr. Green Fang said:


> Just because you've said it a few times, I'm going to throw the grammatical correction out there.
> 
> It's HPS not HSP.
> 
> HPS is an acronym for High Pressure Sodium :aok:  Phew!!! Now I feel better hah! Sorry, I'm the grammar freak around here. Well, actually... around everywhere.



I know,,,right! Lol just messen wit yas. Whoops, i did id again.:guitar:


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## happyhunter (Mar 16, 2015)

it was online just came with a fan i will post updates for next grow in a couple weeks


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## happyhunter (Apr 8, 2015)

alright folks lets try lucky number three this is my third try of flower stage in my tent, i have purchased a new fan recomended by people on this sight, new light, distance from plants updated, i am trying fox farm this time around and am giving my babys half nutes dose compared to an online fox farms guide im following, however i do have a a problem going on brownish spots on a couple of the leaves any info would help, thanks for all the replies before and any info helps thanks, id like to catch this problem early so everything turns out good for once. 

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## next (Apr 9, 2015)

The new growth looks kinda.. burnt. Im gunna say nute burn, I have no experience with fox farm nutes / soil. But I have heard of people burning their plants with too hot of soil, if you used fox farm soil that had nutes in it, you won't have to add any extra nutes for atleast a few weeks. If you doubled up thats your problem.. If u back the light off a little it will help take stress off them, I would raise it 4-6", is it hot on your hand if you put it above your plants?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 9, 2015)

Are you flowering those now?  I really advise not flowering these yet.  They are so small and really (don't mean to sound harsh) they are so stretched that there are very few bud sites.  I just don't see you ending up with much at all, for all your time.  It really is worth it to let the plant veg all the time it needs.  A few more weeks in veg can result in a huge difference in yield.   

What are your temps doing?  What is your pH?


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## happyhunter (Apr 10, 2015)

temps are good i bought the fan you gave me the links to, and a light with a vent tube. ph is at 6, i understand the the whole yield thing man and i totally agree, but im on a short time frame for growing in my tent so i just threw everything from my veg room in there, i know they are small but and i wont get much bu in all honesty im doing this mostly to get a sucessful flower in without the plants basically dieng on me, not so much for yield. all the cuttings coming up in the veg room cangrow till june then im going to do an outdoor op this summer, once again this is for me to try and get a harvest indoor with no disorders


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## happyhunter (Apr 10, 2015)

i think i may have a magnesium deficiency due to lock out from over ferting, i tried to give half dose of flower nutes but i think due to the soil having so much nutes already and flowering so fast i probably wont give any nutes for two weeks or so, looked up symptoms for mag def and looks alot like my leaves on the bottoms of my plants


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## next (Apr 10, 2015)

Not sounding good.. you don't want to be putting "unhappy" plants into flower. Have you heard the saying, where you end up has alot to do with where you start out? One of the great things about the MJ plant is that it can be kept in veg for a very very long time. You should use that to your advantage and get these plants looking happy and healthy, before you try to force them to use what little they have to make some buds. 

IMO your going to get at most 1/2 oz off all those plants, if they manage to make a flower for you that is. You should take THG's advice, take this opportunity to try and nurse them back to health, rather than seeing if they survive the flower room.


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## happyhunter (Apr 10, 2015)

the thing is they were looking healthy, color wise until i gave them nutes in flower


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 10, 2015)

The thing is that they are not ready to be flowered.....  While this may not be the reason for the problems, you can only rush things so much.  

How much light are you running, in how much space?  (I read so many posts and I'm old so it gets hard to keep grows straight in my mind)

What exactly did you feed them and how much?  Did you pH your nute solution?


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## happyhunter (Apr 10, 2015)

im working with a 400 w in a 3x3 tent gave the half dose, i know they are small but i have gotten like 20 grams on plants the similar size, ph was right around six i flushed them today and runoff ph was 5.9, i gave them tiger bloom a fox farm product


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## next (Apr 10, 2015)

happyhunter said:


> i think i may have a magnesium deficiency due to lock out from over ferting, i tried to give half dose of flower nutes but i think due to the soil having so much nutes already and flowering so fast i probably wont give any nutes for two weeks or so, looked up symptoms for mag def and looks alot like my leaves on the bottoms of my plants




What soil are you growing in? You were doing coco, but now you must have some nutrient rich soil? If so, flushing won't remove the nutrients in the soil.

Your plants were fine until you moved then into the flower tent.. Then you gave them nutes, and they started to burn up?

So you flushed them, and added more nutes??


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 11, 2015)

happyhunter said:


> im working with a 400 w in a 3x3 tent gave the half dose, i know they are small but i have gotten like 20 grams on plants the similar size, ph was right around six i flushed them today and runoff ph was 5.9, i gave them tiger bloom a fox farm product


 
Your pH is way off.  At a pH of this level, your plants are uptaking very few nutes.  You need to get your pH in the 6.3 to 6.8 range.  I personally believe that it is a bad idea to flush a plant when it does not need it.  There is no sign of nutrient burn and really no reason for flushing.  So, get the pH of your nute solution in line and that should help a whole lot.  I also would not be giving half doses of food.  Your plants are not overnuted--they are not getting food because of the pH levels.   

I believe that you are missing my point about putting the plants into flowering early.  They will not flower until they are sexually mature.  By putting them into flowering before they are ready, you have not hurried the process--you have just deprived the plants of 12 hours of light a day that they need to grow and put on more branches and more bud sites.  So, rather than grow new branches that will produce more bud, or starting to flower, the plant is stretching.  As a side note, when plants are put into 12/12 early, you count the beginning of flowering from the time you first see pistils, not when you flipped.


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## happyhunter (Apr 11, 2015)

so usually i lower ph by adding viniger to plants, what is a good house hold way to raise it?


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## happyhunter (Apr 11, 2015)

and i see what your saying about the plants being put into flower early, these little guys already getting a bunch of white hairs so i dont think there is a problem with them going to flower so early,


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