# 750 lumens, times13



## PeaceLove&amp;FreeBudz (Oct 18, 2008)

ok so i want to run about 13 lights that produce 750 lumens each, but produce about 17 watts of energy, i have this set up in my mind on how i want to run it but i want to make sure 10,000 lumens of cfl will be good for 4 plants, clones, indica. to be exact.
but im want to run 4 to 4 durren seedling stage and early veg stage then i wanna start turnen the rest on duren the later veg to flowering stages.


I just wantto keep electricity cost but i wantto keep complete control over the light.


tell me what you think.
I also dont want to spend alot on a set up for lights, such as MH MV or sodium. CFL is easy and simple, so thats all im aiming for.


plus its 17 watts per unit so its even super super cheap


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## canibanol cannonball (Oct 18, 2008)

i would bump up your cfl's to the 23-27 watt. They're still cheap and will double your lumen.
If you want 4 plants you will definately need to train them to grow shorter, SCROG or SOG.
For what you have it dont sound like enough.
Im no pro but im running 16 cfl, 23 and 27 watt for combined 30000 lumen. I also grow indica :aok:
good luck


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## Hick (Oct 18, 2008)

lets look at the math...
a 150 watt hps puts out "about" 15,000 lumens
your "221 watts" of cfl's are putting out "about" 10,000... 
I fail to see the "savings" on electricity..:confused2: You are useing _more_ watts, but getting _less_ lumens
220 watts/10,000L.= 45.45 L. p/watt energy used
150 watts/15,000L= 100 L.. p/watt energy used
"TWICE" the efficiency of cfl's..and at HALF of the cost

there's a thread around here somewhere, that directs you to a 150 hps for $20
those 14 watt cfls are $4.95 at home depot (http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs...om2froogle-_-product_feed-_-D27X-_-100527325)... X 13 = $65 plus tax... 
  I don't see a savings there either...


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 18, 2008)

Thanks, Hick.  People have a lot of misconceptions about CFLs.  Besides being less efficient, when you get bunches of them together, they produce more heat than a HPS.  And watt per watt, a HPS will far outyield CFLs.

In addition, 10000 lumens is only good for about 2 sq ft.  To fit 4 plants into this space, they would have to be pretty small.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

thats right...i did a math on cfl verses HD...and to get the lumes from cfl that you get with HD..you will spend more in electric to get same ...plus the space you need for all those cfls...I do have both  but I only use cfl in "Male chamber"  and should have gone with 175watt  HPS  but it was fun building it..and not used much yet..if you are in the planning stages still..may i sugest you reasearch on lights a bit more..Hope this helps and good luck..


edit:  Lowes here in the states has 175 HD  $90 American money..also a 70 watt hps  $70...I suppose you need to ask yourself..what kind of yield do i want..personaly..if you are growing in anything bigger then 2x2..i would not go cfl..JMO


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## slowmo77 (Oct 18, 2008)

i started out with all cfls and thought i was doin good, untill i bought 2 of the 20$ 150 watt hps.. best investment i've made.. less heat, less power bein used, more total lumens. trust me invest in the cheap hps you'll be glad you did.. 

i had 17 42 watt cfls in 4 sq ft, those were 9 dollars each.. thats how many cfls it took to get decent buds imo. thats almost 150$ worth of lights. then i spent 53$ or 2 hps. should have do that to start with.. 

and like THG said 4 plants in 2 sq ft would be tuff unless they're single cola plants. jmo  good luck


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

thanks slowmo..i was hopeing a cfl grower would pop in..Have a great Saturday my friend


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## canibanol cannonball (Oct 18, 2008)

PeaceLove&FreeBudz said:
			
		

> I also dont want to spend alot on a set up for lights, such as MH MV or sodium.



They ARE better, but....
if you decide on cfl you really should up the wattage.
Heat is an issue no matter what light setup so be prepared.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

canibanol cannonball said:
			
		

> They ARE better, but....
> if you decide on cfl you really should up the wattage.
> Heat is an issue no matter what light setup so be prepared.


 

what about air cooled lights?


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## canibanol cannonball (Oct 18, 2008)

they're aid cooled because of the heat they produce??
know im confused..


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## MARY-JANE (Oct 18, 2008)

Everyone wonts to say that cfl is not good. But it is good when you don't have cc to order off line and hps & mh cost a lot when you are on a budget. the hps and mh are alot looking at $350 or better. but cfl only bout $40 so let me know what would you do when the maryjane is your meds and you have to grow yourself. Some grow and sale. But me grow and med myself. So what is the best way to go when you don't have money like everyone else does


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## canibanol cannonball (Oct 18, 2008)

how big is your grow room?


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## Hick (Oct 18, 2008)

a 400 w hps for $100.. a 150 watt hps for $20..
 "IMO"... there is absolutely NO justification in cost.."especially" when you take "efficiency" (lumen produced/per watt of energy consumed)..into the equation.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

hey Mary...i am in no way saying cfl are bad..Im sayn in the long run if you realy do the math..they are more cost to use..and why do you need a cc..look in local papper  under grow lights..meet the person in Mall parking lot  and pay cash...or go to hardware store  and buy sucurity lights (HPS)  everyones on a budget my friend..just need to save for it i suppose...But i understand also that people onece set up its hard to change after puttting in all that money..Just my thaughts


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## MARY-JANE (Oct 18, 2008)

canibanol cannonball said:
			
		

> how big is your grow room?


 
who is this ? for?


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

has this person even been back yet...lol


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

my veg room  4 x 4    flower 6 x 4  would take a lot of twirly bulbs..lol


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 18, 2008)

MARY-JANE said:
			
		

> Everyone wonts to say that cfl is not good. But it is good when you don't have cc to order off line and hps & mh cost a lot when you are on a budget. the hps and mh are alot looking at $350 or better. but cfl only bout $40 so let me know what would you do when the maryjane is your meds and you have to grow yourself. Some grow and sale. But me grow and med myself. So what is the best way to go when you don't have money like everyone else does



You are doing yourself a disservice by not investing in HPS.  Anyone can get a prepaid cc to order online.  A 150W HPS can be purchased for $20 or 2 for $40. Using a HPS is even more important if you are growing your own meds.  

The bottom line is that CFLs are less efficient, cost more to run (lumen per lumen), produce more heat, and yield less (watt per watt).  When you invest in CFLs instead of lower wattage HPS, you are paying more to get less.  There is simply no disputing this.

"What is the best way to go..?"  Spend that $40 on 2 150W HPS instead of CFLs.  Use those CFLs in your household lights and you will cut your lighting costs.


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## MARY-JANE (Oct 18, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> You are doing yourself a disservice by not investing in HPS. Anyone can get a prepaid cc to order online. A 150W HPS can be purchased for $20 or 2 for $40. Using a HPS is even more important if you are growing your own meds.
> 
> The bottom line is that CFLs are less efficient, cost more to run (lumen per lumen), produce more heat, and yield less (watt per watt). When you invest in CFLs instead of lower wattage HPS, you are paying more to get less. There is simply no disputing this.
> 
> "What is the best way to go..?" Spend that $40 on 2 150W HPS instead of CFLs. Use those CFLs in your household lights and you will cut your lighting costs.


 
Well you say its that easy. Well do you think you can donate to me some hps or mh.


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## trillions of atoms (Oct 18, 2008)

when i read the title, i was gunna say....but hick nailed it on the second- GREAT THREAD

full stars!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 18, 2008)

MARY-JANE said:
			
		

> Well you say its that easy. Well do you think you can donate to me some hps or mh.



Many of us struggle to meet our expenses.  I have had to make sacrifices in other areas before when I needed growing equipment.  

You asked me what I would suggest, I told you.  Try looking at it this way.  If you run the same lumens in CFLs and HPS, CFLs cost you over twice as much in electrical costs EVERY SINGLE MONTH.  You also end up with less bud.  These are the facts.  If you want to keep on spending more for less, then do so.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

I Love Donating for a good cause..its Just against the rules here


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## canibanol cannonball (Oct 18, 2008)

im convinced  Home Depot carries HPS 100-250 watt, an im runnin around 400 now...


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## 4u2sm0ke (Oct 18, 2008)

http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32941


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## time4tokin20s (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm ticked at myself for buying all those CFL's and painter lights. I bought them over time but still they cost a lot by the time I was done(at least I got a bunch of camping lights now).Of course at that time I didn't know about the $20 HPS.The cfl's just don't work that well.You can get some nice buds but there just isn't a whole lot a meat.By the time you add in all your other expenses and all your time you might just of well bought some bud off the street.Don't waste your time with CFL's.One 150watt HPS is better then 10 cfl's as far as I can tell.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 18, 2008)

time4tokin20s said:
			
		

> I'm ticked at myself for buying all those CFL's and painter lights. I bought them over time but still they cost a lot by the time I was done(at least I got a bunch of camping lights now).Of course at that time I didn't know about the $20 HPS.The cfl's just don't work that well.You can get some nice buds but there just isn't a whole lot a meat.By the time you add in all your other expenses and all your time you might just of well bought some bud off the street.Don't waste your time with CFL's.One 150watt HPS is better then 10 cfl's as far as I can tell.[/quote
> 
> Those CFLs can be used for your household lighting.  I don't know what "painter lights" are, so cannot suggest another use for these.


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## time4tokin20s (Oct 18, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> time4tokin20s said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## papabeach1 (Oct 18, 2008)

I grows on 6 cfl 23 watts.. on clone bubbler..  they are doing good.. and even 4 of 80 watt floursec.. they doing good.. but I can see the different if I use the MH for the mothers.. one bulb would do the greatest result.....vs  many loads of cfls and flours. sticks that will do very less result over MH  but for my 10 plants.. well I want them to have plently room so they can volume lot of bushy leaves..  so that where I have to stick with cfls/flours sticks..in one big room..   8'x8' wouldn't do good  I'm look for 12'x12' or something..  I don't know if 1000w MH can do it.. but gonna cost me less than 2.00 a day or cheaper if I do better idea with cfls/flours stick...  I'm still thinking..


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## HydroManiac (Oct 19, 2008)

ive actually seen some nice plants veg with the 24 flo tubes and i mean real bushy plants its all a matter of prefrence but i would def use HPS for flower


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## PeaceLove&amp;FreeBudz (Oct 19, 2008)

the answer was repeated over and over again, i have a hps and a mh but i was just given some input and try to grow in a cost enficiant senario. I just want to try and use cfls for a cheap grow, that will produce a full cycle of crop


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 19, 2008)

PeaceLove&FreeBudz said:
			
		

> the answer was repeated over and over again, i have a hps and a mh but i was just given some input and try to grow in a cost enficiant senario. I just want to try and use cfls for a cheap grow, that will produce a full cycle of crop



Our point is that using CFLs is not a cost effective method.  You can "try and use CFLs for a cheap grow", but it won't be cheaper.  Period.


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## POTUS (Oct 19, 2008)

The Hemp Goddess said:
			
		

> Our point is that using CFLs is not a cost effective method. You can "try and use CFLs for a cheap grow", but it won't be cheaper. Period.


Of course, you're exactly right, Hemp Goddess.

It's proven with no doubt what-so-ever, that watt for watt, lumen for lumen, HPS is the least expensive type of light in regards to electrical usage with one exception; High Output LED's. If you can afford the upfront costs of purchasing High Output LED's, after 6 years of use, those lights meet their "break-even" point in purchase cost, electrical costs and the fact that they last for an average of 11 years with the same exact output. The last 5 years are pure gravy.

Most of us aren't looking into the future that far. LED's aren't a value at this time unless you are, in fact, going to use them for more than 6 years.

That considered, HPS is the best bang for the buck.

There is no debate about it.

Jeeeez folks, let's quit beating this dead horse.


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## mastersativa (Oct 25, 2008)

Man, sure are alot of cfl bashers, lol. I havent seen 20 dollar hps either, but would be interested to see. Anyway, check out my grow, it will explain alot about cfl's and how they work. My results are pretty good with em.


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## POTUS (Oct 25, 2008)

mastersativa said:
			
		

> Man, sure are alot of cfl bashers, lol. I havent seen 20 dollar hps either, but would be interested to see. Anyway, check out my grow, it will explain alot about cfl's and how they work. My results are pretty good with em.


I would hope you don't include me as a "basher" of cfl's. My favoring of HPS is because the spectrum they work in is good for an entire grow and they are also the least expensive manner of lighting a crop that is available. CFL's work. I just don't understand why anyone would use them instead of HPS. CFL's are less expencive up front, but you end up paying just as much for them in electric costs as using HPS of equal wattage when purchase cost and operating costs are combined.

Good luck to you man. If you prefer CFL's then I hope all your grows are great with them.


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## papabeach1 (Oct 25, 2008)

I don't understand..  I have been monitor the electric in the house..

right now we only running 4 of T12 4 ft total of 160 watts.. 2 air pumps, 1 aqua temperature controller, 2 of 6 inch cheap fans set in low mode..
other room has 2  aqua lights (15 watt) total 30 watt for my cherry tomatoes 
and 4 sticks of T5 (separate rooms)  all that along with us in the house.. only avg. 5 to less than 6 dollar a day..  which we can manage 100 to 200 per month for the power bill..  compare to 1000 HPS/MH with A/C that runs up around 10.00 to 12.00 a day..  I know I need job.. but due to the budget and I can see the difference    anyone can tell me how to save energy on these 1000 HPS/MH?


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## POTUS (Oct 25, 2008)

papabeach1 said:
			
		

> I don't understand.. I have been monitor the electric in the house..
> 
> right now we only running 4 of T12 4 ft total of 160 watts.. 2 air pumps, 1 aqua temperature controller, 2 of 6 inch cheap fans set in low mode..
> other room has 2 aqua lights (15 watt) total 30 watt for my cherry tomatoes
> and 4 sticks of T5 (separate rooms) all that along with us in the house.. only avg. 5 to less than 6 dollar a day.. which we can manage 100 to 200 per month for the power bill.. compare to 1000 HPS/MH with A/C that runs up around 10.00 to 12.00 a day.. I know I need job.. but due to the budget and I can see the difference anyone can tell me how to save energy on these 1000 HPS/MH?


Wattage translates into money. You're talking about 160 watts. Then you mention 30 watts. Then you mention 1,000 watts.

The more watts, the more power consumed. The more power consumed, the more money you spend.

The difference in power consumption between a 1,000 watts of CFL's and 1,000 watts of HPS lighting is considerable, with the HPS costing less per/watt than the CFL's.

You have to compare oranges to oranges, apples to apples.


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## Growdude (Oct 25, 2008)

POTUS said:
			
		

> The difference in power consumption between a 1,000 watts of CFL's and 1,000 watts of HPS lighting is considerable, with the HPS costing less per/watt than the CFL's.


 
Actually there is no differance in power consumption between 1000 watts of CFL or 1000 watts of HPS,  1000 watts is 1000 watts.

The differance is in lumens per watt, and 1000 watts of HPS is = to 150,000 lumens far more than CFL,s


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## POTUS (Oct 26, 2008)

Growdude said:
			
		

> Actually there is no differance in power consumption between 1000 watts of CFL or 1000 watts of HPS, 1000 watts is 1000 watts.
> 
> The differance is in lumens per watt, and 1000 watts of HPS is = to 150,000 lumens far more than CFL,s


hehe, it was late....Where my mind was at was lumens. To gain the equal amount of lumens, the wattage of the CFL's would be more than the 1000 watts that the HPS uses to produce it's lumens.

Thanks for catching that for me.

The sentence should have read:

The difference in power consumption between CFL's and HPS lighting is considerable, with the HPS costing less per/lumen than the CFL's.


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## TheEnhancementSmoker (Oct 26, 2008)

Why does seemingly no one ever mention the sockets to run all those CFL's.  Everyone in favor of CFL growing just mentions the bulb cost, not the total cost of the sockets and power cords.

If you factor that in, it makes CFL growing even more of a rip-off.


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## Flyinghigh (Oct 26, 2008)

slowmo77 said:
			
		

> i started out with all cfls and thought i was doin good, untill i bought 2 of the 20$ 150 watt hps..
> 
> 
> Were did u get the 20$ 150 watts Hps at.. ?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 26, 2008)

mastersativa said:
			
		

> Man, sure are alot of cfl bashers, lol. I havent seen 20 dollar hps either, but would be interested to see. Anyway, check out my grow, it will explain alot about cfl's and how they work. My results are pretty good with em.



I don't think that anyone is really "bashing" CFLs. CFLs and other fluoros work well for vegging and moms, but falls way short when we are talking about flowering.  And trust me, those of us that have grown for years know pretty much all there is to know about CFLs and other lights.  

We are just trying to inform people.  I don't know where the notion ever came from that CFLs are cheaper and/or cooler--they are not.  Not only are they not cheaper to buy, they also produce substantially less bud than the same wattage HPS.  These are the facts.  If you are using CFLs to flower, you are paying more for less.


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## slowmo77 (Oct 26, 2008)

Flyinghigh said:
			
		

> Were did u get the 20$ 150 watts Hps at.. ?


 
heres the link again for anyone who missed it. 

http://www.e-conolight.com/Product/EProductDetail.asp?ProductFamilyID=7&FGNumber=E-MT6H151G


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## POTUS (Oct 26, 2008)

Flyinghigh said:
			
		

> slowmo77 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## andy52 (Oct 26, 2008)

i have 2 400watt lumatek systems and took my MH out of my veg area to use cfls.i can see no difference in growth.my plants are short and tight nodes.i went with cfls because of space.my veg area is 2x2x4.i veg 4 plants at a time.using the 400 i had no head room because of the vented reflector.now i have room enough to get my plants to the size i want them before putting into flower.


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## POTUS (Oct 26, 2008)

andy52 said:
			
		

> i have 2 400watt lumatek systems and took my MH out of my veg area to use cfls.i can see no difference in growth.my plants are short and tight nodes.i went with cfls because of space.my veg area is 2x2x4.i veg 4 plants at a time.using the 400 i had no head room because of the vented reflector.now i have room enough to get my plants to the size i want them before putting into flower.


I'm glad it worked out for you, man. In pot growing, the most important factor is getting the job done. How you arrive there is personal preference.

I have a 3.5 x 5.5 area that is 8 feet tall. I use two 430 watt lumatek ballasts to light it. My plants are 5 feet tall at harvest.

Good luck to you!


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## PeaceLove&amp;FreeBudz (Oct 29, 2008)

You can follow along with my other thread. im using just 3 cfls right now then bumping up to a MH or HPS for when its time to flower in about 2-3 weeks.


even though i find out sex in about a week so i mightnot get that far, till i grab my clones in a couple weeks.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 29, 2008)

PeaceLove&FreeBudz said:
			
		

> You can follow along with my other thread. im using just 3 cfls right now then bumping up to a MH or HPS for when its time to flower in about 2-3 weeks.



You want a HPS for flowering, not a MH.


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## andy52 (Oct 29, 2008)

i agree that MH is best for veggin.but for those that can not afford a Mh,cfls are good for veggin.but they do throw some heat also.i just leave my veg area open 24-7 and the lights also.with a fan sitting in the door.to me its better than hooking up all the blowers and hid.takes too much room in my area.when i go larger i will use Mh for my veggin,since i already have the gear to run.my mazars are beautiful under the cfls tho.i understand the penetration idea.i also know that HPS is the only way to go in flower.you get what you pay for.anyone trying to flower under cfls are wasting time and elec.just try one grow under HPS&MH and you will know what i am talking about.


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## PeaceLove&amp;FreeBudz (Oct 29, 2008)

For sure, Im looking into getting a good Hps for a decent price. Ive seen plenty on craigs list but thats a risk in itself.

Any good site anyone can offer up for a cheap hps?
just enough to get away with 3 plants flowering.
im not trying to spend to much, but i know i ned to get into the hps.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Oct 29, 2008)

PeaceLove&FreeBudz said:
			
		

> For sure, Im looking into getting a good Hps for a decent price. Ive seen plenty on craigs list but thats a risk in itself.
> 
> Any good site anyone can offer up for a cheap hps?
> just enough to get away with 3 plants flowering.
> im not trying to spend to much, but i know i ned to get into the hps.



How big a space do you have?  You can get a 150W HPS for $20 + shipping.  I have a small scrog going now (2 x 2) and am using 2 150W.  I think that it is going to be a decent harvest.  You can also get a 400W for around $100 or so.


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## PeaceLove&amp;FreeBudz (Oct 29, 2008)

3x2
Im only doing 3 plants. maybe in 2 harests ill do a SOG. i just wanna get the materials and my knowledge up to par.


where did you get your HPS from HEMPGODDESS


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