# switching systems



## carz (Oct 2, 2006)

hey guys this is the deal. for the last 3 weeks I have had my plants in veg in a ebb and flood system. I put them in flowering last night. my flowering room has an emilys garden. I woke up and checked on them this morning and they are damn near dead. is this because they went from a watering schedule to being in the water all the time? as soon as i seen this i put the ebb and flood system in the flowering room and moved them to that. please help.


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## KADE (Oct 5, 2006)

It could be.. if they are completely submerged.. as long as the water is full of oxygen it doesn't matter if they are in the water.


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## Stoney Bud (Oct 5, 2006)

How did you move your plants from the Ebb and Flow system into the DWC unit? I'm thinking that perhaps the roots were damaged in the move.

Hydro roots are notorious for their brittleness and weakness out of their established home. I've see hundreds of plants moved from one type of system to another and when moved from Hydro to Hydro, it's almost impossible to move them without damage. I knew one Professor that went nuts if he heard someone mention doing it.

If root damage is the culprit, then the plants will either live or die depending only on the amount of damage and change in their living environment.

For an Ebb and Flow move to DWC, I would suggest putting extra air-stones into your reservoir for serious aeration. Ebb and Flow aeration is the best there is, because it's a 90%+ saturation during the pump off cycle. Even an awesome air-stone environment can't match that.

If root damage isn't the problem, then almost for sure it's environmental shock. The result can be anywhere from total recovery to plant death, Hermie's, or poor growth.

Time will tell the story. No matter what happens, I wish you good luck man.


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## Tonto (Oct 5, 2006)

You have any pictures? Sorry to hear about the declining health, best wishes to your ladies!


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## vongelder (Oct 29, 2006)

Sure glad I found this thread - you may have helped me avert a disaster!

I had been planning to do just the opposite - switch from DWC to ebb and flow after 7 weeks in veg. The problem is that my current setup is too small. I have six plants in DWC with 4" net pots w/hydroton. It's kind of a hybrid system that uses drip as well as deep water. Three of the plants have done great, (18 - 22" tall and quite bushy) but three have not grown nearly as well and now are not getting enough light. 

 I had planned to move the big healthy plants to a newly purchased ebb and flow system but after finding this thread I'm seriously doubting the wisdom of that move. But having nothing to lose, if I wanted to move the three sickly plants to ebb and flow, should I just set the net pots in the grow tray with their roots hanging out?  or should I put the pots into the larger pots (5" square) that came with the system, and fill the space with vermiculite, hydroton or rock wool? I hate to lose any plants, as the seeds were expensive (white widow).
Alternately, could the sickly plants just be moved into pots with soil, so I'm not trying to keep two hydro systems running, especially since it's time to flower these babies? I might could nurse them back to health to use for clones...

Thanks for your input!


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## leelow (Oct 29, 2006)

vo, i once had a similar dilema, what i chose to do, which ended up effective,was to put a cover on my flood tray with 4 4 inch whole to fit the net pot,so  what you are doing is leaving your plants in the net pots but moving them into the ebb and flow,allowing the roots to grow unlimited in the flood tray. i hope you can understand this discription.  this method is what i use now, from the start with larger net pots and hydrotron.


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## leelow (Oct 29, 2006)

stoney, 
can you explain what you mean by "90%+ saturation during the pump off cycle" thankyou


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## Biffdoggie (Oct 29, 2006)

I believe he means that while the pump is off you retain 90% of the possible moisture retention.


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## Stoney Bud (Oct 29, 2006)

Biffdoggie that would sound like a logical explanation, however, what I meant was that 90% of the root area that is available to absorb oxygen is supplied with oxygen when the water drops completely from an ebb and flow system.

This means that near perfect nutrients surround this available root area during it's flood cycle, providing almost perfect plant feeding, and this is followed by an equally perfect oxygen supply during the "dry" cycle.

An ample amount of nutrient filled water is retained, (as Biffdoggie said), by the media that should be as porous as possible for this purpose, during the "dry" cycle. That's also what I meant by "available root area". A lot of the root area is covered because of it's use by the plant to "hold" itself to the media. About 10 percent of the total root mass is unavailable to absorb anything. It's used by the plant as structural support.

The other 90% has near-perfect cycling of nutrients and oxygen.

This rate is improved upon by aeroponics, but that type of system has mechanical problems that surpass that of ebb and flow.

DWC, (Deep Water Culture), is good at the nutrient side of the equation, but not as proficient at the oxygen side.

The necessary combination of nutrients, water and oxygen is the reason watering in soil properly is also so important.

If the soil is too wet, no oxygen.
If the soil is too dry, no water.
Too wet or dry and the plant can't properly absorb nutrients.

I hope this clears some of the mystery behind MJ's root functions.

Root functions.....hahahahaha, sounds like a math problem.


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