# US House To Consider Decriminalization!!!!!!



## LowRider (Apr 18, 2008)

hxxp://www.congress.org/congressorg/webreturn/?url=/norml2/issues/alert/?alertid=11280301

Action Alert


*House of Representatives to Consider Cannabis Decriminalization!* 
Tell Your Representative to Support H.R. 5843! NORML is pleased to report that H.R. 5843, an "Act to Remove Federal Penalties for Personal Use of Marijuana by Responsible Adults," has been inroduced in the House of Representatives by Representatives Barney Frank and Ron Paul. 

This measure, if passed, would strip the federal government of its authority to arrest responsible adult cannabis consumers. NORML founder and Legal Director Keith Stroup worked extensively with Franks staff to write this important legislation, which represents the first cannabis decriminalization measure introduced in Congress in 24 years.

Under current federal law, the penalty for cannabis possession is up to one year imprisonment and a $1,000 fine.

Please take a moment today to write your Representative and urge him to support this important legislation. For your convenience, a prewritten letter will be sent to your Representative when you enter your zip code below.

Thanks for supporting NORMLs efforts to reform marijuana laws in the United States.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 19, 2008)

Well... let's see what happens. It's highly unlike, as this is where they get their money, but I will send a letter anyway.


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## LowRider (Apr 19, 2008)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> Well... let's see what happens. It's highly unlike, as this is where they get their money, but I will send a letter anyway.


 
perfect example of why things are the way they are.  If you don't think positive you won't get positive results.  This is the problem with this whole movement, alot of people think negative so what more can they expect but negative.  you already have it in your mind your not going to win so whats the point, right?  At least you e-mailed.  PEOPLE THINK POSITIVE TO GET POSITIVE RESULTS.

This bill could be really positive if it gets through the house.  i mean let me put this in perspective for y'all so you can see where I'm from.  I live in the BIBLE BELT (SC).  theres legislation already going before our house for medical marijuana, granted you have to be basically dieing in order to get it, but its a start.  And that's what this is, a start.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 19, 2008)

I disagree, 'we the people' lost our power LONG ago. Regardless of what we _think_, we have no power. We have no freedom, the power belongs to those who hold the money, which is the lobbyists and those in office already. 

I have a website concerning another substance that is currently legal in most states, but is currently underfire... and regardless of what we think, say, or do, it's not up to us. 

Believe me when I say that we don't stand a chance, it's not because I am being negative, it's that I am being realistic. The government is NOT going to decriminalize a substance unless there is a TAXABLE way to make money on it. Alcohol and Cigarettes are TAXABLE. Marijauna is NOT because it can be grown at home, the government would not allow this because they need their cut. The way they get their cut now is be criminalization and seizure. The US will actually sell off their seizures to other countries and pharamceutical companies and make double money.

Is it a cause worth fighting, sure, but without advertising, good luck. Most smokers I know don't visit this site, or even surf the web for that matter. If it's not on TV or getting FAVORABLE media coverage, it will never get the attention it needs. And I know quite a bit about this particular area, and I can tell you, it will NEVER hit mainstream media because each affiliate is tied into the government or their favored political party one way or another.

EDIT: edited due to mentioning of particular politics... to ease the politics of one, politics of others must not be discussed...


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## smokybear (Apr 19, 2008)

I agree with md on this one. I'm not really sure that it will pass but I will send the letter to my represenative. I'm doubtful of any results though. Just my thoughts. Take care and be safe.


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## liermam (Apr 19, 2008)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> I disagree, 'we the people' lost our power LONG ago. Regardless of what we _think_, we have no power. We have no freedom, the power belongs to those who hold the money, which is the lobbyists and those in office already.
> 
> I have a website concerning another substance that is currently legal in most states, but is currently underfire... and regardless of what we think, say, or do, it's not up to us.
> 
> ...



The power to inform is much closer to your grasp than you tink. Would it be so hard for someone to setup a pro-cannabis decriminalization booth at their local mall and inform as many as 100 people on this proposition? No. How do I know? I just saw a friend of a friend do it today. Issues such as this spread like highschool rumors. Even direct support from 2 or 3 well known politicians (Ron Paul is a presidential candidate, for crying out loud) can get the media involved. Its our job as the most well informed, well pronounced, and strongest advocators to *start* the movement. Others will finish it.

Never ever underestimate the bandwagon effect.


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## LowRider (Apr 19, 2008)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> Believe me when I say that we don't stand a chance, it's not because I am being negative, it's that I am being realistic. The government is NOT going to decriminalize a substance unless there is a TAXABLE way to make money on it. Alcohol and Cigarettes are TAXABLE. Marijauna is NOT because it can be grown at home, the government would not allow this because they need their cut.


 
Its not taxable? Look at Cali and other states that have shops, look at Amsterdam. WOW, your way in left field. look at it like this, tobacco can be grown at home, alcohol can be made at home. Yet people buy both in groves at stores. Yea your right its definitely NOT TAXABLE. There's alot of people who won't take the time to grow it, there's lot of people that can't grow or wont learn the know how.  there's definitely a market out there if it was made legal and regulated


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## slowmo77 (Apr 19, 2008)

it can be taxed, i agree with LR. it could be marketed, mass produced and sold in packs, why would someone grow it if they could buy it prerolled and packedged. the would lose more than they would make to legalize,, every jail and prison is paid by the feds to house criminals, probation fees, fines, prisoners work on roads while in prison, those contracts are given to the prisons and they are in turn paid for the work prisoners do. prisoners don't get paid. the war on drugs pays the to good to stop it. sounds like another war going on right now.. how much is fuel where you live? the almighty dollar will decide what happens in the U.S. i also live in the south and i don't see going very well here. i sent the letter and i try to think positive but i can't blind to the facts.


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## Kupunakane (Apr 19, 2008)

Yo Ho my Friends,

    I have heard all my life words like; It can't be done, or your not smart enough, maybe you have heard this one, It will never fly Lindey.
  Enough of this horse radish.

We do have aviation, It Flew and just got better. I have seen things that are a mind boggler to behold, and contrary to my own parents statements to me I became a straight A student, and have accomplished so very much in my lifetime alone.

 You want change ? WE ALL NEED TO PULL TOGETHER, TAKE A STAND, AND BE WILLING TO TAKE SOME HEAT FOR WHAT WE BELIEVE IN.

I never want to hear anyone say it will never happen. That in my books is pure crapola.
 Remember this one ? A small little old lady took a stand, and changed the entire world, her name was Rosa Parks, and she inspired de-segregation.

I myself went on to serve our country. I became a mixed gases master diver, as well as a pilot able to fly both rotary(helicoptors) and fixed wing(airplanes), I am checked out for aerobatics, and now I want to chase hot air ballooning.
   I was told a long time ago that I couldn't do it, BUNKUM I SAY.....

I feel bad for those folks that think it's all over, and nothing can change. I was told that I would only live another 3 to 5 years by multiple doctors, GUESS WHAT ?  I am now in year 9 of the 3-5 that they originally predicted, screw them I say.. Make your world work, but you have got to stand tall.

Sorry for getting steamed, but I tell my own kids that they can accomplish whatever they set their hearts into, and to never accept anyone saying it can't be done, rasberry's on that....

smoke in peace
KingKahuuna


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## md.apothecary (Apr 20, 2008)

liermam said:
			
		

> The power to inform is much closer to your grasp than you tink. Would it be so hard for someone to setup a pro-cannabis decriminalization booth at their local mall and inform as many as 100 people on this proposition? No. How do I know? I just saw a friend of a friend do it today. Issues such as this spread like highschool rumors. Even direct support from 2 or 3 well known politicians (Ron Paul is a presidential candidate, for crying out loud) can get the media involved. Its our job as the most well informed, well pronounced, and strongest advocators to *start* the movement. Others will finish it.
> 
> Never ever underestimate the bandwagon effect.



The representatives are more worried about being re-elected, NOT doing what the people say. Without the wide spread media effect or positive talk through the media channels, no one will know about this bill in question. IF and only IF it is heard, and the majority of that representatives people agree, then he MIGHT vote yes, HOWEVER, there are lobbyists who are the ones who put forth the money for those candidates. 

Don't forget, these people get budgeted money based on these fake wars, such as WAR ON DRUGS... this is one of the LARGEST money making schemes the government has. 

If you have a million people in the states who setup booths at a mall, great, I want you to be in charge of getting them organized to do so. I would support that.

LETS FACE IT: Those who are hardcore smokers NOW, really won't care if it's legal or not in the long run, whether it is or isn't they are not going to stop smoking, especially if they can get away with it now.

As for CALI, it's NOT legal in cali. It's only legal in that state, but the FEDS can and HAVE over ruled them before. Most of the medi-banks in Cali were taken down by the DEA recently. The state laws do NOT override federal law. The federal law is superior, and just because one state has bent the rules doesn't make it legal. Not to mention, you also have to have a medical  reason and a license even to purchase in california, not just some bum off the street can go buy it.

You can't compare amsterdam to the US, totally different governmental setup to begin with. Hell, paying for sex is legal there, but not in the US... more hardcore drugs are legal there, like heroin (if you buy it legally, and have a prescrip.), it comes in a one dose disposable needle. 

Do I want/wish it to happen? Sure, but it simply won't this time around. Just my opinion... that is all. However, if someone would like to bet the farm on it, I am game.


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## Fretless (Apr 20, 2008)

No one is betting the farm on anything.  Your "realism", MD, comes off as defeatism.  You've given up this particular fight.  Maybe there's something to gain from your perspective from the status quo, after all, what would your art be without the resistance?


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## Dubbaman (Apr 20, 2008)

Id be willing to bet that if people were given the choice to go to the smoke shop and buy a carton of smoke (just like cigs) for the price of $100 and it was taxed by 100% with 50% going to the FED and the remainder split between the State and Local taxing departments you would see a hell of a lot of "Tax" money raised and no a single one of us would complain. Not only do i know it would work i did a business plan on it quite a few years back in school (the instructor was very liberal) not only did i ace the course but many of the professors said it was one of the most sound legalization and regulated ideas for MJ, medical or personal. The fact remains that even if it is decriminalized (which im for) there will be many who cant or wouldnt want to supply themselves and they will not only be free to consume their herb of choice but will also aid in the resurection of the nations economic stability  in the process. To get an idea of how fast the idea can work jsut take the numbers i did provide and do the math with the base of only 1 million of us smoking just 1 carton/month. 150(tax)x12(months)x1MIL(pot heads)=1.8 BILLION in new Tax/year for the splitting, I bet that could fund a few wars


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## HydroManiac (Apr 20, 2008)

I was a strong believer against marijuana legalization, until this very day. Watching how marijuana had been legalized from the 40's up to the 70's when nixon criminalized it again.. I feel with the criminalization it brought on a epidemic crime wave from hard substances for the lack of REAL knowledge of marijuana. Now im all for it, but to say marijuana will help economically I think is wrong. Hard drugs have ran rampent in the 70's 80's and 90's. If you can paint a picture on this you would understand why. All drugs are mood altering but I rather be relaxed, feel good, and wanna help people then be paranoid. Looking for another fast buck to settle my fix. I think the goverment has put to much of a strain on good decent American's, that work hard to do good for the society. Who then find out when at home there subject to scrutiny in there own homes because they decided to use medicinal herb in there own home.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 21, 2008)

bearfootbob said:
			
		

> No one is betting the farm on anything.  Your "realism", MD, comes off as defeatism.  You've given up this particular fight.  Maybe there's something to gain from your perspective from the status quo, after all, what would your art be without the resistance?



I haven't given up on the fight, but I don't want people to get their hopes up. I've been fighting it for a long time, this and MANY other governmental fights. However, I know for a FACT, that there just isn't enough movement on this. This like the DRAFT RESOLUTION was squeezed in in secret. The draft resolution HAS been updated in the past, and they even tried doing it again a couple years ago, which I am sure no one heard about, no one fought it, but luckily, it was not signed into law at that time. But it sits... the update is still present and waits for proper war mongers to hold congress and senate again.

Also, PLEASE don't forget this important fact....

Let me remind you of how the government works...

Just because your state says something is legal, does not make it so, unless the FEDS say it is....

HOWEVER, if the FEDS say it's legal, does NOT mean your state has to legalize it! They can draft their own state amendments and legislation. This is how select drugs are legal in most of the country, but are illegal under certain states. Not to bring up another drug, but to give a PRIME example, would be states banning sal**a div***rum. While it's not federally scheduled.


I fight a good fight against governments and authorities, believe me. Art IS resistance, as my flag states, but the fact remains that we simply don't have enough push power right now. 

EDIT: edited due to mentioning of particular politics... to ease the politics of one, politics of others must not be discussed...


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## Dubbaman (Apr 21, 2008)

Interesting to say the least and very true on many points. But you will alos have to think that if its decriminalized by the FED the states will no longer be able to draw "assistance" form the FED for everything from investigations to payroll. so thats would Imply that the state would have to fund its "war on drugs" on its own funding. In that is where i would see the "rules" change, it still has the option of going unfavorable but with "pressures" form the right area(s) e.g. Dr.s groups,med. patients right groups, and even the Joe Schmoe who USED to know, they may take a bit better look into the spending for the target specific MJ related laws. Theres and interesting idea everyone look up their own areas laws on the matter till way back and see about the rules for it i bet its still really legal in some other areas if this was to take place.


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## godspeedsuckah (Apr 21, 2008)

I believe there are more people out there than we think who do not smoke marijuana but also do not have a problem with it. My father OF ALL PEOPLE was watching a program when we were over visiting and looked at me and said; "You know something, I really believe that smoking marijuana is alot healthier for people than smoking cigarettes, and definately safer than alcohol." To everyone who thinks the changes will never happen, look at all the states which support medical now....


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## md.apothecary (Apr 21, 2008)

godspeedsuckah said:
			
		

> I believe there are more people out there than we think who do not smoke marijuana but also do not have a problem with it. My father OF ALL PEOPLE was watching a program when we were over visiting and looked at me and said; "You know something, I really believe that smoking marijuana is alot healthier for people than smoking cigarettes, and definately safer than alcohol." To everyone who thinks the changes will never happen, look at all the states which support medical now....



There is no doubt about this by any means. But where are they when it counts, and furthermore, would the be moved enough to VOTE for it if it came to. 

Is it healthier, sure, absolutely, and beneficial too in MY opinion. But you're correct in that there are a few states that support the medical usage of this plant. But again, as mentioned above, by federal law, those states still fall under federal control. 

This brings me to another idea for you to ponder. The US isn't the only country to have this particular plant outlawed. There is a UN council setup for world drug policies, and as some people might know, the US is a heavy leader in that area as well. Consider the idea that it's NOT really about what tax payers say, but what other countries who pay a lot more into the US have to say about it as well... We decriminalize it or legalize it, they may see it as a country losing control.... ???

Again, hope it happens, but only time will tell.


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## Cole (Apr 21, 2008)

It could be legalized and taxed but the USA would rather not becuase if they do legalize it then everyone will still buy from a grower or dealer that dosent put tax on their buds. So the goverment wont make any money if everyone buys bud from non tax dealer legally such as you or me. All they want is money.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 21, 2008)

Cole said:
			
		

> It could be legalized and taxed but the USA would rather not becuase if they do legalize it then everyone will still buy from a grower or dealer that dosent put tax on their buds. So the goverment wont make any money if everyone buys bud from non tax dealer legally such as you or me. All they want is money.



Exactly what I was trying to say... there was an article a long time ago in a high times or something like that which mentioned this very ordeal. Suggesting that it'd never be legal because of this reason. I happen to agree, it IS about money, it always is. Also, remember... lobbyists don't want this either. Why???

PRESCRIPTION MEDICATION... THC is being tested NOW for psychological medications and they're trying to synthesize THC and study the activity on the receptors it attaches to in the human body. If it became legal, BILLIONS of dollars would be lost in already spent money, and future profits from drug companies. These drug companies, like oil companies, keep the government officials in CHECK.


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## jraddude (Apr 21, 2008)

Think about the economics of scale.  If it was legalized, that would mean real farmers with large amounts of land would be able to produce a lot of it and at cheaper prices than small-time grow operations.  But in order to sell it, it would obviously have to be taxed by the govt.  Even with taxes I think the price would be quite comparable to street prices and it would be more economical for everybody if it was legalized..think about why you buy vegetables and fruit at the market instead of growing it yourself.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 21, 2008)

Not too sure I follow the logic of that. Commercial growers grow for profits, prices would increase more so than they are NOW. Your local headshop would charge you an arm and a leg per g or oz of it. Prices would skyrocket to make ends meet. You'd then have suppliers to pay, profit margins, and then taxes (if they were legit sales). 

Without going into detail, look at how the price of gas has increased products like milk, and other farmed goods, everything's gone up in prices because of the economy. I think people would take advantage of farming mj as well. 

I also think security measures for large commercial growers would be a large concern and transport would be a large concern as well. I think people would knock off trailers left and right to get their hands on large amounts of it to turn around and resell. Easy to steal and get away with as there is no way to identify it from any one particular crop. Not to mention the FDA would get involved and they regulate the po0p out of everything. They would say, and you KNOW they would... "This strain has too much THC to be sold...". :doh:

Remember overseas, it's legal to SELL it, IF you are the grower of it, and you can NOT do it just anywhere. You must be in approved areas to do so. I can only imagine how the US would try and regulate such things.


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## smokybear (Apr 21, 2008)

They can't regulate it. That's the problem. I'm not sure the prices would skyrocket though. If the prices were higher than the street prices, there would continue to buy it off the street instead of from the government or "cigarette shops ect". That would defeat the whole purpose of legalizing it. That's why I don't believe the prices would skyrocket. Just my thoughts. Take care and be safe.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 21, 2008)

I think they would, and because people say ... hey it's legal, lets target those teens and young adults and the demand would be so high, it's a matter of supply and demand. High demand, high prices, more profits...


I did find some interesting links though related to money made...

hxxp://www.norml.org/index.cfm?Group_ID=6293&wtm_format=print

hxxp://www.hartfordadvocate.com/article.cfm?aid=3384


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## HydroManiac (Apr 21, 2008)

I think some1 was right your all thinking way to negative??  When did marijuana become a medicinal herb for money?? I never seen people make over 10 million in marijuana?? Whens the last time your smoked some commericial bud over some home grown hand picked strain?? When was the last time you got a master in business administration?? If marijuana was legalized that doesnt mean marijuana is dicriminlized when the bill is signed??
Plz have more sense before making a topic you know nothing about??
Decriminalization would give the DEA more of a time fighting CRACK, COCAINE, LSD, METH, and other hard drugs hitting the streets there so many to name?? So please before you put on your business suit and become a politicianer how bout you find out what is really hurting the american economic system?? Im sure its people like you that need to change there way of thought like I did


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## Cole (Apr 21, 2008)

jraddude said:
			
		

> Think about the economics of scale. If it was legalized, that would mean real farmers with large amounts of land would be able to produce a lot of it and at cheaper prices than small-time grow operations. But in order to sell it, it would obviously have to be taxed by the govt. Even with taxes I think the price would be quite comparable to street prices and it would be more economical for everybody if it was legalized..think about why you buy vegetables and fruit at the market instead of growing it yourself.


 

I see what your trying to say but then it would just come down to a stand of between growers prices and store prices. The "people" could easily compete with taxed reatail prices if they had the recourses. Also,if bud was legal EVERYONE would be a farmer,lol.


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## HydroManiac (Apr 21, 2008)

Theres a difference between a gardener and a farmer cole


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## HydroManiac (Apr 21, 2008)

Theres a difference between a gardener and a farmer cole


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## Cole (Apr 21, 2008)

I know that but If MJ was legal why wouldent everyone just buy a couple of acres of land and make there money back,lol


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## smokybear (Apr 21, 2008)

Some people don't like to farm. You know how much work would go into 2 acres of mj? And, if everyone grew it, why even buy it at all? Not everyone has the resources to grow, or the inclination. Just my thoughts. Take care and be safe. Very interesting thread.


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## LowRider (Apr 22, 2008)

Oh forgot to add all the industrys that would benifit if it was legal.  just keep that in mind


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## Fadeux (Apr 22, 2008)

http://capwiz.com/norml2/issues/alert/?alertid=11280351&PROCESS=Take+Action

Go here NOW, its a quick and easy way to email your state reps telling them to support this bill. It will take 5 minutes, and if we each get 2 friends to do it as well, who knows what we may seed. PLEASE click the link and fill out the form!


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## Canna Man (Apr 22, 2008)

your guys arguments are all on the money but why even buy from big scale bussines if you could just simpily buy it _tax free._


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## LowRider (Apr 22, 2008)

Canna Man said:
			
		

> your guys arguments are all on the money but why even buy from big scale bussines if you could just simpily buy it _tax free._


 
Prices on the street would drop to nothing.  there would be no profit.  Business could grow more and produce alot more than a street dealer could get a hold of, let alone grow.  so dealing it would be crappy business.  you would have to sell a ton of it.


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## Cole (Apr 22, 2008)

LowRider said:
			
		

> Prices on the street would drop to nothing. there would be no profit. Business could grow more and produce alot more than a street dealer could get a hold of, let alone grow. so dealing it would be crappy business. you would have to sell a ton of it.


 



:yeahthat:


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## Dubbaman (Apr 22, 2008)

Canna Man said:
			
		

> your guys arguments are all on the money but why even buy from big scale bussines if you could just simpily buy it _tax free._


Simple Gvt legalization would mean big business and there is no way they would let anything go tax free, even if you were growing you own there would still be (potentially) in place that you as a grower would have to A) have a licence to do so and that would be a tax B) you could be regulated to only grow X ammount and then that ammount would also be susceptiable to a tax. it wouldnt matter if you were growing tons for manufacture or jsut enough to have a stash if they were to legalize MJ the govt. will get a cut of it somehow.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 22, 2008)

Look, if you have the skill and know how to make your own WINE or alcohol, you can do it, HOWEVER, you're limited to how much you can brew. I'm not sure about alcohol, but I know it's far less than the 200 gallons of wine you can brew per year. If it's anything over that, you must apply for a license and the government gets their cut (federally, and where I am at, state does too). So in agreeance with dub (above) you would get taxed.




> When did marijuana become a medicinal herb for money??



Not quite sure what you are asking, but ANYTHING medicinal is BIG money!!!!! Depending on what country you're in, the US does not regulate pricing on medicines by prescription drug companies. They do what they will, and they make a mint! Medicinal herb, now, in states that allow it, I am sure costs an arm and a leg as well, and if it doesn't do you think the little mom and pop shops would last very long when the big boys (pharma comapnies) come in to play? There is tons of money potential there.



> I never seen people make over 10 million in marijuana??



Maybe there is a reason for that? It's a longitudinal thing, not short term. Not to mention, they'd probably be more sophisticated than the average guy to get away with things like that... you'd never know, but I can tell you who makes more than that on marijuana... the GOVERNMENT.



> Whens the last time your smoked some commericial bud over some home grown hand picked strain??



Not sure what you're getting at here with that question? What's that got to do with anything?



> When was the last time you got a master in business administration??



How do you know whether we do or don't have an MBA?



> If marijuana was legalized that doesnt mean marijuana is dicriminlized when the bill is signed??



If MJ is legalized, it IS decriminalized. However, if it's decriminalized, does not mean it's legalized. KNOW the differences...

Decriminalization = is used to describe the removal of jail as a  sentencing option in cases related to the use or possession of marijuana. This  could involve changing the criminal charge of having a specific amount of  marijuana (for example, 30 grams or less) into a civil offence, which could be  dealt with by a ticket or fine.

Legalization could involve replacing existing laws about marijuana possession  with regulations such as a drug control board similar to the Liquor Control  Board of Ontario (LCBO) making it legal to sell and purchase regulated  marijuana.
(hxxp://www.halton.ca/health/services/drugs/marijuana/marijuana_decriminalization.htm)



> Plz have more sense before making a topic you know nothing about?? Decriminalization would give the DEA more of a time fighting CRACK, COCAINE, LSD, METH, and other hard drugs hitting the streets there so many to name?? So please before you put on your business suit and become a politicianer how bout you find out what is really hurting the american economic system??



I don't recall anyone saying that it would hurt the economic system at all... there will ALWAYS be money to be made either way, but they simply make more with it being status quo. There are Sin Taxes set in place for this very reason... Whether you believe it or not, those "Sin taxes"  on alcohol, tobacco, strip clubs, etc. actually help pay for education, roads, etc. Especially where I am located. Here they even take seized moneys and properties and resell them for money to go back into the city's budget (supposedly), so drug money seized does end up back in the system. Unfortunately, a lot of that is from MJ I am sure, as that's what usually is the focus here in these parts.

I am all for decriminalization, but not yet convienced on an outright legalization.


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## HydroManiac (Apr 22, 2008)

The simple fact im getting at *WHICH THIS FORUM WAS MADE FOR* Was Quality over Quanity MD.apothecary


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## md.apothecary (Apr 23, 2008)

I understand the quality vs. quantity, I agree that quality should outweigh quantity, but I know a few members here who disagree and would opt for quantity any day. Again, there are always two sides to every issue at hand. There is never a right or wrong, but always two sides. 

This is how the US operates unfortunately it's been this way for over 200 years.


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## SmokinMom (Apr 23, 2008)

What a great debate, and thanks to everyone for playing nicely.

As for decriminalization, I won't hold my breath, even tho all my body parts are crossed in hope.


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## G_48911 (Apr 23, 2008)

lol,if you want it legalized,vote for  Ralph nador (however you spell his name)
=) he couldnt be much worst than george bush,and at least we'd beable to smoke and grow without worrying about the feds knockin down our doors =)
 (this is a joke..please dont waste your vote on him,he usually only gets like 2 or 3% of votes =)


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## Dubbaman (Apr 23, 2008)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> I understand the quality vs. quantity, I agree that quality should outweigh quantity


 
ever notice the class A stamp on smokes from what grade of tobacco its made from, the roll your own brands and some pipe tobaccos are graded B and C, MJ can also be "graded" this way by potency. The only true problem in that would be with all the hybrid splicing that is the current trend is evolving in to super strains  you dont really see the tobacco companys out there making superbacco from mixing the virgina and maine plants and making a new jersey :rofl: im sure you get the idea though.





			
				SmokinMom said:
			
		

> What a great debate, and thanks to everyone for playing nicely.


 
im still waiting for that spot to heal fromt he last time i got bit in the pa-toot for turnign jerky


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## NorCalHal (Apr 25, 2008)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> As for CALI, it's NOT legal in cali. It's only legal in that state, but the FEDS can and HAVE over ruled them before. Most of the medi-banks in Cali were taken down by the DEA recently. The state laws do NOT override federal law. The federal law is superior, and just because one state has bent the rules doesn't make it legal. Not to mention, you also have to have a medical reason and a license even to purchase in california, not just some bum off the street can go buy it.
> 
> You can't compare amsterdam to the US, totally different governmental setup to begin with. Hell, paying for sex is legal there, but not in the US...


 
Let's tackle the "paying for sex first"...I guess you have never been to Nevada.

Let's move on to Cali.
The feds did not shut down all the clubs my friend. Not even close. The raids in LA were a farce. Do you know why a few got busted in LA?  Because the Feds get chased out of the Bay Area by Local Goverment.
Trust me, the movement is stronger here then ANYWHERE. As far as having a medical reason to get a recommendation, ANY person over 18 and has $150 can get a recommendation. 

But I understand you are talking about Federal laws also. I just had to clear up your misunderstanding about what is going on out here.
The clubs already pay state and local tax on every item sold in a club. This has started about 2 years ago. Are the feds getting any? No.


One KEY thing that md.apothecary stated was so true. "Without advertising, good luck." This is a KEY to winning any govermental fight.
And until all the Actors who smoke daily get off thier *** and step-up and throw down a little cash to help out, this will still be an uphill batlle. Now, I am not just picking on actors, but there is ALOT of money in the hands of folks who smoke. It will take some great work by folks to get the kinds of monies needed to really win this fight. NORML (whom I have been a member since 2000) has been tryin for YEARS.

As sad as I am to say it, I am in the same boat as MD. Though I beleive in the cause and support it, I don't think these bills will pass. MAYBE the MMJ bill backing off the feds in states that have MMJ. I know Cali is fighting them tooth and nail. When big cases go before a jury here, they walk. That is the beauty of "jury of my peers" The majority of folks here could care less about MJ, and the people refuse to convict folks for it.
Man I love this state!


But we are the minority. And, if you are posting any opionons in this thread, YOU BETTER DAMN WELL BE REGISTARED TO VOTE OR YOUR THOUGHTS MEAN CRAP.


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## md.apothecary (Apr 25, 2008)

NorCalHal said:
			
		

> Let's tackle the "paying for sex first"...I guess you have never been to Nevada.
> 
> Let's move on to Cali.
> The feds did not shut down all the clubs my friend. Not even close. The raids in LA were a farce. Do you know why a few got busted in LA?  Because the Feds get chased out of the Bay Area by Local Goverment.
> ...



Ahh... fresh meat... Let's take the spin out...

First, let me make sure everyone knows that there is no FEDERAL law against prostitution...except within military facilities, naval establishments and bases.

NEVADA - Sure it's LEGAL, outside of city limits due to city ordinance, however, state regulation requires that the city/town must have less than 400,000 population before the sex for money is legal. The state gets PAID from licensed brothels and cat houses. It is illegal to solicit within city limits, it is illegal to solicit on the streets, and really, it's illegal to advertise and solicit it in anyway, shape or form.

SEX - Continued.... Rhode Island is almost the same as Nevada, it's legal to have sex for money as long as street solicitation is not presented and a brothel is not created as an establishment.

SEX in netherlands... it is protected by law, as it is a form of profession, and those who engage in such are required by law to pay income taxes, their social security type deductions, etc.

Cali clear up - The feds can't be chased out of anywhere that is under US control, this includes California. Sorry... I never said they shut down ALL the dipensaries. But just because you're over 18 and PAY to get a recommendation doesn't make it legitmate. Legitmacy = having a problem like, cancer, MS, or other debilitating illness that REQUIRES you to need a prescription. The illegal activity of purchasing licenses is one of the problems the government has with this beta version of "legalized" marijuana.

As for the feds not getting their cut?? How about them seizing those "TAXES" you so claimed....

*CA NORML: DEA Robs California of Millions in Tax Revenues - Seizes Tax Payments from State Board of Equalization*

hxxp://hightimes.com/news/ht_admin/3859


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## Cole (Apr 25, 2008)

Also, prositutes are required to get a STD test every 14 days in Neveda.


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## NorCalHal (Apr 25, 2008)

md.apothecary said:
			
		

> Ahh... fresh meat... Let's take the spin out...
> 
> First, let me make sure everyone knows that there is no FEDERAL law against prostitution...except within military facilities, naval establishments and bases.
> 
> ...


 

Great reading. Never knew R.I. was similar to Nevada and no Federal prostitution law exists. Still, it is legal in two states.

On to taxes. They seized $450,000 in taxes going to the State. There is a week worth of taxes. Thats it.
Of course they Feds can't be "chased" out. But there are numerous cases pending over Clubs,Growers and operation of clinics right now. Until they get cleared up, there has been littlerally no DEA intervention in the Bay for a while now. Not to see they aint watching, because I know they are.
The city of Oakland has made quite a few of the folks involved in some of the operations "City Employees" to help shield folks from the feds. A HUGE statement. SF has done the same. Both places have filed against the Feds to keep them away. So, it is a step in the right direction.

On the flip side, my town for instance, If the Local Law Enforcement wants to shut down clubs, they invite the feds. All the clubs in my local area has been shut down and Local ordinances passed to prevent further openings.

As far as legitimacy of the MMJ patients go, if you only want to count seriously ill folks, you are looking at about 5% of folks who have thier recommendations. There is no illegal activity involved in obtaining a recommendation. There are plenty of MD's who will recommend. You won't get far with a fake card.  It's too damn easy to get a real one.  But state police agencies recognize it no matter what, and you are given a free pass. 

Great info. Keep it coming.


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## seank (May 5, 2008)

So I went to the NORML site to send the pre-written letter, and it says I'm outside the constituency, what's up with that?!:shocked:


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## md.apothecary (May 5, 2008)

I think it means that the location you gave is not within the representation of an elected official. That group is "outside the constituency"... these people also sometimes have a hard time voting on certain ballots.


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## massproducer (May 5, 2008)

I am a Canadian Medi grower, I have been diagonsed with Chronic Pain Syndrome as well as Fibromyalgia.  

The other day I was talking to an American from Cali and we were comparing the process to get approved in Canada and in the States.  I was truly astonished when he told me that all he had to do was pay a doctor like $150, then pay like $25 for the card.  He said that he had his whole license in under 2 hours...  2 Hours

While me on the other hand, I have been fighting for my right for like a year and a half.  He said that doctors were coaching him on what to say, and that he could get a medi card for backaches and headaches.  

In Canada it is the exact opposite, Doctors were told not to sign papers, and you have to have atleast 2 signatures with one being from a specialist in the area of your illness.  I went to see about 6 different specialist before my neurosurgen convinced my GP( family doctor) to sign the papers as this was the ONLY option for my pain, as opiates don't work for chronic pain, and I HATE pills anyways.  

Even after having all of my paper work completed it still takes 6-8 weeks after Health Canada recieves you application for you to actually be approved and get your card.  And everyone thinks that marijuana is easy to legally get here in Canada, LMAO


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## md.apothecary (May 5, 2008)

Oh, you KNOW they're going to bounce you around from dr. to dr. to get their money's worth. I know in some parts of canada you don't pay to see a doctor, but in the US even with insurance, you may still have to pay a copay, and those add WAY up from referrals and such, so the system is definitely designed for money, whether or not MJ is involved.


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## massproducer (May 5, 2008)

Yeah that is the one thing that I will always love about canada, We basically pay nothing out of pocket per say for health care, everything essential and some unessential things are covered by our MSI, which is basically National health health insurance, that is free for all Canadians, well everyone pays for it through taxes, but there are no copays or deductibles.

So I did not have to pay a thing for any of my appointments.  I did have to pay $20 for my doctor to fill out the doctors part of the application but it is only fair being that it was a massive application.


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## thc is good for me (May 6, 2008)

massproducer said:
			
		

> I am a Canadian Medi grower, I have been diagonsed with Chronic Pain Syndrome as well as Fibromyalgia.
> 
> The other day I was talking to an American from Cali and we were comparing the process to get approved in Canada and in the States. I was truly astonished when he told me that all he had to do was pay a doctor like $150, then pay like $25 for the card. He said that he had his whole license in under 2 hours... 2 Hours
> 
> ...


 
Dang i never knew it was so hard to get your card in canada. It only took me 1 week


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## massproducer (May 6, 2008)

The difference is that here in Canada we have a National program, so once you are approved noone can say a thing, not the province or the Feds


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