# Organics for flowering?



## SunWolf (Jul 21, 2011)

I decided to give organics a try and have a question.  I've got the beginnings down, I think.  I'm using a base of MG seed starter soil (not pre-nuted), with perlite, vermiculite, dolomite lime, Bio-Tone Starter, and a bit of composted mixed bunny / chicken poo.  Plants are looking super nice, green and bushy.

Now for the question.  Primarily, everything I have so far is directed at veg growth.  What do I add now that I'm into flowering to help things along??   Preferably *not* some big name bottle of stuff I have to order off the interwebs, if possible.  Any suggestions?

Obligatory picture...1 week into flowering, you can see a little SC-ing and a little LST-ing that's been going on.  Pretty green girls.  :hubba:

I love you guys and gals here at MarPa!!  All thanks go to your great teaching.


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 21, 2011)

Here is one of the best threads on different nutes http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=50463


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## Locked (Jul 21, 2011)

See if you can find Nouvellechef's organic mix listed.....I am sure he has that covered. Wet Dog comes to mind as well. I don't grow organic (yet) with  the exception of adding dolomite lime to my MG seed starter mix now.


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## Rosebud (Jul 21, 2011)

My big name bottle has:  Bat guano, Worm Casings, Kelp, and Molasses. You need something that has less N and more P and K. I use roots organics Buddha Bloom in flower. Hope that helps, and your plants look very green.


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## Mutt (Jul 21, 2011)

When i grow I hit it with veg and flower. most of the flower end ferts take longer then the veg to break down.
I try to make available all nutrients...used and unused at that time. everything will continue to break down and become available for your plants.
It may be more prudent to use flower aimed organic teas then trying to go for a top dress in flower with a dry mix (unless you already have some broken down)


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## Wetdog (Jul 21, 2011)

Mutt has a very valid point about the teas, especially at this point.

I'm real big on Kelp. K is hard to get in organics and IMO kelp is the best source because it brings so much else to the table. See the kelp sticky above.

BUT !! Kelp meal, which I love is slow release and might be a bit of a waste used as a top dressing. Liquid kelp or a seaweed might be better for right now.

In fact, what Rosebud is using might be about perfect since you are already in flowering. I use everything in there but the guano. The shipping is too much and I can find local sources of P much cheaper.

Mutt is totally right about the flowering nutes taking longer to break down. I add the kelp meal, bone meal and rock phosphate when I make my mix and it's available around the end of veg.

You really have to think ahead in organics. A 'fast' source like blood meal still takes a couple of weeks from a top dress to kick in. Something slower like bone meal or kelp meal, closer to a couple of months (from a top dress).

Wet


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## SunWolf (Jul 21, 2011)

Wow, the nice folks of MarPa strike again.  

Ozzy, thank you for the link, more reading is always good!!

HL, I had forgotten about NC's thread, will look that one up again as well.

Rosebud, since it looks like I need something a little quicker, I'll take a look at the Buddah Bloom and see if I can find it locally, or somewhere with a reasonable shipping rate, since that is usually the most costly part.  

Mutt and Wet, I will be sure to add some Kelp, blood and bone meals to my soil next time. Could I get some kelp and make a tea from that perhaps??  Being as I'm already in flower, maybe the tea will be a little more quick acting.

Once again, thank you all so much!

GREEN MOJO to all. 

And here, pass this!  :bong1:


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 21, 2011)

This thread on Soil mixes will help you get to know what you can buy to use when you start making your own soils
http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=54251


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## Wetdog (Jul 21, 2011)

I add kelp meal to tea all the time. Actually, it's a alfalfa meal, EWC and kelp meal tea.

I do the 'handful' type measuring also, but it would work out to ~1cup alfalfa, 1cup EWC, 1/4cup kelp meal.

Wet


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## Mutt (Jul 21, 2011)

writer for Skunk Magazine. and a prolific educator of TLO "True Living Organics"


> Well, as most of you prolly know, Rolanterroy has been a little busy  with all his superstardom and magazine articles and I think even book  writing to visit anymore.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Mutt (Jul 21, 2011)

Part 2.


> Vegetative Stage Recipe
> 
> * One Gallon Water *: R/O water,rain water,distilled etc. etc.
> 
> ...


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## SunWolf (Jul 21, 2011)

Awesome, thank you again.  Time to go shopping!


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## Rosebud (Jul 21, 2011)

Thank you Mutt, I am going to get that mag. I hung on his every word. I love organics.


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## BBFan (Jul 22, 2011)

Great read Mutt.  Thank you.

The only thing I might add is a bit of discussion regarding PH.  While organic growing usually helps manage PH, there are still some adjustments that can be made to help move things along, particularly in _Sun Wolf's _situation or those in a similar situation where you need a relatively quick fix but still want to remain organic.

My experience is nothing happens quickly with organics.  You need to do the right things up front and let nature take it's course.  That being said, there are numerous studies that show that fungi prefer a more acidic environment while bacteria thrive in a more alkaline environment.

Bacteria also grow much faster than fungi.  Brewing a tea that starts with water at 6.0 or less (down to as low as 4.5) will promote fungal growth much quicker and more profusely than an alkaline water based tea will.  It will still take a good week or more of brewing (with a fungi innoculated tea), but it will speed things up a bit.

Adding a chelated phosphorous source will also speed delivery to the plants (as opposed to bone meal or similar).  Fungi attaches to phosphorus and a more readily available source will get the nutrients delivered to the plant a little faster.

Good luck Sun Wolf.  Organics take patience.  Done right and you will be well rewarded.  Happy Growing!


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## SunWolf (Jul 22, 2011)

Thank you BBFan, that makes it much clearer how things work and how to apply it.  I'm really liking this organic thing, and am gathering the things needed for my next run to be done right.  I'll limp along on this run as best I can, and do it right from the git go on the next one.


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## Mutt (Jul 22, 2011)

FYI:
later on -Rev discovered an inherent problem with most city water sources. They put in not only chlorine but chloramine as well which does not evap off with a bubble stone.
All water must be well, spring, r/o, or distilled. Any municipal supply source should be avoided for best results  If in doubt ask for a free water test report of your municipal water company. They are required to supply it for free if you purchase your water from the city.


you are so right BBfan about PH...it really means nothing but if you get the window right they will jam right along. I still don't think that run off in organics should ever be tested as it will swing to the point of no sense. only "in" is what matters.


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## Rosebud (Jul 23, 2011)

i started my compost tea yesterday, I need to get my air stone back today from a friend and I will add something from Progress earth.com that has billiions of good things in it.  This is so fun. I have a whole house filter so no chlorine here or minimal. I have never had to ph. 
Thanks again Mutt.


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## Rosebud (Jul 26, 2011)

I started my tea. This is my first tea other then alfalfa. I took some two year old compost, about two cups filled the two gallon bucket. Then I realized it was too strong, so I put it in 5 gallon bucket added my small pump and added the dry started from the grow shop. Any comments. 

You should have seen my company's face when i told her it was tea. She thought it was for them. Anyway, is there anything else I should be doing? It smells clean, not really any smell.

​


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## Mutt (Jul 26, 2011)

Did you put the compost in a sock/burlap and tie it off? a poo tea bag so to speak 
Seems to be on the "dark" side. might want to dilute a little bit more 
if it doesn't stink then you are doing something right


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## Rosebud (Jul 26, 2011)

Mutt, I was hoping you would tell me your thoughts. No, I didn't put it in a bag, i had thoughts of straining it when through. Does a sock work? I was thinking too that I could dilute one cup per gallon or half gallon too. Not use straight. What do you think? I can try  it out on my gardens outside before I hit my ladies with it.


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## BBFan (Jul 26, 2011)

Rosebud said:
			
		

> You should have seen my company's face when i told her it was tea. She thought it was for them.


 
Thanks for the laugh Rosebud! That was hilarious! I can just imagine her expression.

I think the important thing to realize is that brewing compost tea is more about the microbial life then about any nutrient value (brewing specific nutrient teas is a little different imo).

Whether you're brewing a fungi dominant tea (more brown leaf compost) or a bacterial compost (more kitchen by products, green matter), it's all about the beneficials. You're actually better off not using an airstone for teas, larger bubbles won't harm the delicate fungi chains.

Also, consider adding some molasses, seaweed, and fish emulsion to your tea to feed the bacteria that you get out of the compost.

Hope this helps.


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## Rosebud (Jul 26, 2011)

Awesome BBf. this is organic kitchen compost with brown leaves as needed and lawn clippings, a little.
I am using a very small pump with a filter that moves the tea just a little.  Are you saying I should not have the little pump on?

I always have fish emultion and molasses on hand, no seaweed, shall i go get some kelp? Do you recommended amounts of these in the 5 gallon bucket? 
Thanks.. love this stuff.
Can this be too hot? I didn't think it could be.

Thanks I will read more, but would love you guys' input.


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## Mutt (Jul 26, 2011)

You should be aerating most teas. oxygen is your microbes friend 
I personally won't ever tea up fish emulsion again...I did not have good results adding that to the mix. Once was enough.

Great info BBfan won't let me give you rep right now.

Rosebud, Bat guano and seabird **** is great in the bucket. esp during flower 
Build yourself a bathouse with a collection tray at the bottom. 

Like BBFan said...lil dab will do ya in the sock...it's all about building colonies of microbeasties. They just thrive off what ever you add convert it to nutrients the plant will use. The plants themselves don't benefit from the nutrient you are putting in the sock. It's the microbeasties that do.


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## Rosebud (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks Mutt, I am thinking of doing it straight from the starter I used and the wonderful compost without adding anything else to see what i have. What do you think of that? Then I will see if it shows up. The tea i was buying was one cup tea to 1 gallon of water. It made the plants look better the next day. Ya think about three days in 80-90 degrees is enough to cook it? Or should I wait longer?


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## BBFan (Jul 27, 2011)

Rose- it shouldn't take more than 24-48 hours to get a good tea brewing.  Bacteria will start to die and you may end up with anerobic bacteria.  I let fungal teas go longer, but I'd be careful with bacteria dominant teas.  If it starts smelling bad, I would avoid using it.

Give them something to eat.  It should start foaming up around 24 hours which shows good activity.

Just my thoughts- good luck with it!


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## Rosebud (Jul 27, 2011)

Ok, i will test this today. I will use it on some vegies first and see if they turn into something weird, if not, on to the MJ.

Thank you so much you guys. Love this organic's.


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## Rosebud (Jul 27, 2011)

Ok, i used 2 cups per gallon. I think the reason that it is so black is from the coffee grounds. We do latte's here at home everyday, so there are lots of organic grounds in there.

I dumped  a gallon on half of a hosta plant the has been fighting PM in the deep shade because of the wet weather we have had.  I will see if it helps that. Foliar and ground fed.  I would provide pictures if you want. I also dumped a half gallon on Jack Herer outside.  seemed the right thing to do.:confused2: 

BBF, thanks for your help. It is foaming up now. I have another question. If there is a pump in there how would it be anaerobic? What does the coffee grounds make it, fungal or bacterial?  Thanks again.


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## BBFan (Jul 28, 2011)

Rose-  I think coffee grounds are a good source of nitrogen.  Worms love coffee grounds also (and for the record, while coffee is acidic, coffee grounds are actually pretty neutral).  I think the bacteria/fungi question has more to do with what you've got in your compost pile in terms of innoculant.  Did you add anything (compost "starter", mycho source, etc) or is it what nature has provided?  Nature typically will provide what you need, but adding a little extra can move things along a little quicker.

As far as anaerobic vs. aerobic, that's a tougher question, and I'm not sure I know the exact answer, but my experience has been that I have bubbled teas that I let go too long without adding a food source.  And even though they continued to bubble, they went anaerobic.  I think it has to do with the dying aerobic bacteria.  Aerobic must have oxygen to survive, but there are many species of anaerobic bacteria that can grow in the presence of o2, they just don't need it.

The real oxygenation of water doesn't come from the air pump itself, but rather from the atmosphere as the bubbles break the surface tension of the water.  So a small aquarium pump is ok for a while, but o2 will not be replenished quick enough as your little friends multiply.  You really need to keep it "roiling".

This is my understanding of the process.  You are an amazing grower (I've read your journals) and I'm sure you'll be successful with this too!  Happy growing!


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## moaky (Aug 7, 2011)

something to add or debate... i read that the microbes from the tea digest or break down the nutrients if you add within the last 2 hours of brewing before feeding so that the powder nuts are readily available to the plants.  i add volcano bat from e.j.
i throw my ingreidents in loosely.  is it better to have in paint filter bag(sock)


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## bink (Jul 29, 2012)

jamacin bat guano, or indonesian


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## moaky (Jul 29, 2012)

EJ's Volcanic Bat Guano 0-8-1   no say where it from.  if thats what your asking


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## rickyjack9 (Aug 5, 2015)

about teas, too strong and your plants will suffer 10,000 deaths...dilute it. and watch closely for results for a week.


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