# Fox Farms -vs- Miracle Grow



## White Owl (May 31, 2009)

First off, let me say that I am a first-time medicinal grower and I'm just trying to get a grasp on all of the techniques. I'm hearing raving reviews on Fox Farms products. However, I'm also reading online sources that say that the plants do not need as much nutrients as the FF products put out. From what I'm reading, Miracle Grow seems to have exactly what the plants need without the risk of burning them with too much NPK. Heck, MG even has a Better Bloom equivalent! I'm just confused as to what the big difference is in the two from an experienced grower's point of view: Which line of products puts out the best buds? I'm not going for profit here...I just want to smoke the best medical weed I can grow without tasting that harsh, fertilizer flavor.
:smoke1: 

Also, I was analyzing the feeding schedule suggested by FF, and it sure seems like I'm gonna be feeding my plants WAY too much! I mean, I did the math and everything...we're talking close to 50-60P in the 7th week? That just seems like a lot to me. From what other internet sources tell me, the plants should only need about 20-35P during that time (which MG provides). 
:hairpull::watchplant:

Is there any real guideline to go by when it come to nutes?


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## UKgirl420 (May 31, 2009)

MG soil is very harsh on mj plants ,,,,a lot devolpepe probl;ems with nute burn as its has  time release nutes that you cannot control ,,,but saying that a lot of succesful grows have been achieved with MG ,,,,but if you are new to growing ,i would suggest going with FF or a organic potting soil ,,,

also if you look at the bottom of this page you will see other threads on mg soil ...which may help you make up your mind on what to use eace:


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## White Owl (May 31, 2009)

Well, if I'm using FF soil, do you think it would be ok to use MG additives? MG's Better Bloom formula is a 15-30-15 blend...fairly bland, yet sustainable, right? 

I just think that the combination of additives (3-4 per week) that FF suggest would cause more damamge than the ones MG puts out. Its so confusing! lol


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## 4u2sm0ke (May 31, 2009)

sorry   Im a Fox Farm user..i only use MG  on Veggie garden..


as of the 3-4  a week..well i have great results..run the way you want..but IMO  if this is first grow..I would use a nute that is made for MJ..good luck to you


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## astrobud (May 31, 2009)

i used to use mg, had decent results to start with then the problems set in, i guess a lot of the nutes in mg settle on the bottom and more of the nutes get concentrated in one spot. i now use fox farms and have no problems


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## MindzEye (May 31, 2009)

MG does not have everything a marijuana plant needs... Most plants do not consume as many nutrients as marijuana... Miricle grow does not have all the minor elements not even close, you would have to add magnesium, calcium, boron, iron.... just to name a few... Plus you will burn your plants with MG...

15-30-15 is not a good NPK for flowering marijuana plants it has too much nitrogen in it... Remember not to listen to non marijuana sites about nutrients because they are refering to a different plant... Also remember Fox Farm is all organic, MG is all chemicals... You can find pics of many awesome gardens on this site and none of them are grown with MG.... just say no and it will make growing easier for you...


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## peaceful (May 31, 2009)

I just started a true test.  FF ferts in FFOF soil -vs- MG dry ferts in a SuperSoil, perlite & worm castings mix.  Same plant, clones, same size etc. when I started experiment.  Keep your eye on this one for your answer:  http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42756

I am NOT, and will NOT use MG soil however.


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## dirtyolsouth (May 31, 2009)

FoxFarm's Ocean Forest is a bit 'hot' with organic nutrition but the only time this is an issue is with seedlings. While you may see some slight burning if you use FFOF with seedlings, MG can scorch the heck out of young plants.  With seedlings you'll want to use a weaker soil or cut the strength of FFOF with non fertilized soil products such as FF Light Warrior.  Once your seedlings are 4-6" tall and have a basic root structure established you can use FFOF for vegging.  You probably won't need any added fertilizer for about a month although a couple of light fertilizer applications will help your babies get a wider balance of nutrition and kick them into gear a little more.  

Most growers agree that weed grown in a quality organic soil with organic feeding will yield the most flavorful harvest.  Lots of growers on here use FF Grow Big and Big Bud and there are many other feeding options you can learn about from growers who are using these products.  I like Botanicare's Pure Blend Pro line of nutes and additives.  There are varying opinions on how often to feed but I prefer to apply fertilizer every 3rd watering during the flowering cycle.   The strength of the feeding depends on where the girls are in the flowering stage as mj is a very hungry plant and needs ample food supplies especially during the 4th and 5th week of bloom.  FFOF is a ready to go, organic soil.  I'd suggest getting some chunky perlite and mixing 3 or 4 parts soil to 1 part perlite.  This will keep your soil draining well and prevent it from compacting as the grow goes on. There are other amendments you could add before your grow but OF can be used as is to get great results.

Foxfarm's Ocean Forest vs. Miracle Grow Potting Soil?  That's like Muhammed Ali taking on Sylvester Stallone...  The real deal taking on something trying hard to be the real deal...   

Happy Growing!


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## tcbud (May 31, 2009)

I have used both.  The Fox Farms is Organic, a plus.  MG is not, a minus.  Fox Farms has more micro nutes, a plus.  MG not so much, a minus (been awhile since I read the back, but I think not so much).  Fox Farms has small numbers of nutes, i.e. 6-4-6 (may not be exact, the contianer is downstairs), a plus for adjusting nutes.  MG huge numbers as 15-30-15, a minus IMO.

Only plus I can think of with MG vs. FF is MG is cheap and very easy to find, whereas FF is a bit more costly and may not be easy to find.  I live in the boonies and yet can find it in two stores in town, tho this area grows a bunch of MJ yearly, legal and not.

I personally do not care for the taste of MJ grown in MG.  Even with a flush.

"Foxfarm's Ocean Forest vs. Miracle Grow Potting Soil? That's like Muhammed Ali taking on Sylvester Stallone... The real deal taking on something trying hard to be the real deal... "
Agree with You Dirty...


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## MysticWolf (May 31, 2009)

It is honestly great that everyone here loves Fox Farm products but what few realize is how discouraging that can be to most way rural areas that don't have local grow shops or hydro shops that you can just take a short drive to and tada a one stop shop ...

Out here in Montana I can't get Fox Farm stuff unless I order it online ...So product... plus shipping... plus added time makes that a rough deal...

Me personally I buy the best organic soil I can locally check it as best I can them amend and lighten it ...Sometimes that might mean certain MG products... but even Ed Rosenthal and Mel Frank recommend them right in their books ...

So good alternatives on how to mix good viable soil helps budding growers in My personal view ...

Myself I go by a chart in Mel Franks book 1 part perlite, 1part vermiculite ,4 parts organic soil , 2 to 3 parts local soil depending on how good and fluffy it is ...1 part worm casting ...1 part bark ...It saves money saves... shipping ...saves time 

Though eventually as money allows I do want to try a DWC hydro setup ...But new growers have to go with what is in their area ...and also in their comfort and price level to start ...

And I think We as a community need to encourage that ...Hey a CFL hood is great to start under if that's what you feel comfy building and can afford...

Latter it makes a great veg cab and mothers area...Sure some have big bucks to spend ...but some don't like med patients on fixed incomes ...So encourage people help them start with what they got on hand... help them become comfy wiring and setting up rigs...

WE get good plants by raising good plants...Well it is true of Growers too we get good Growers by raising good Growers and teaching them our love of garden... 

Tending and teaching them how to be Care Takers in the world ...then that Care Taker mentality flows into their daily life ...It is not just the bud and plant that is healing ...It is tending that garden in a peaceful time ...

Taking that active step to help yourself and others...Here I'm setting up shop in MT I'm having to setup shop to grow indoors and step back from the outdoor growing I loved in NC and was very good at...

Many handy tools did not survive the 2500 mile journey due to space restrictions ...and the need for liquid assets to get here...But and this is a Big But ...I'm still growing... I'm still going... and I'm still giving it My best shot...

Honest sincere growers step down from that higher level and mentor and teach budding growers on their level and encourage them to read.. learn... and grow toward the goal of independence ...

And That Mentoring is the Most Important Growing and Gardening  we can give to others in our lifetime...

Though that,s just one Care Takers opinion 

James


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## Caretaker (May 31, 2009)

I have NEVER EVER burned a seedling with MG. I might get 1 seedling out of 20 that will hardly grow but thats more because of a runt in the mix. I use MG and only MG because of price and how easy it is to get. But its still a great soil to use. The only way you can avoid the MG taste is a good long cure. Unless your using the soil for a 4 month flower period you will most likley not be able to flush the soil. My best tasting crop was a late bloomer and used all thenute in the soil so it didnt have that fert taste in it. I have used the weaker MG fert with my soil also, Its like 8-7-9 and that adds way to much N ontop of the percent in there. So there bloom fert wouldnt be a good idea. I have used the schultz one with the same ingrediants but only on an indica, A sativa will stretch like crazy with all that N. Indicas like being short so they dont react to it as much. If your new go with MG. It will grow a fine plant if you dont water to much and it wont hurt your budget. Check out my journal, They are all grown under 12/12 with MG soil.


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## White Owl (May 31, 2009)

This is all very valuable info, and I definitely thank all who replied. But my main question isn't so much regarding the soil; I'm using FFOF and am moving into the stage of adding nutes. I'm more concerned over the difference between the available nutes that I can add in during the watering.

When it comes to the nutes alone, should I be ok if I use the all-purpose 24-8-16 blend of MG in the *flowering* and the 15-30-15 MG blend for *blooming*? And how often should I feed?

I understand that the plants need different levels of NPK during their different stages, and I just want to give them the nutes they need without over feeding them.


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## astrobud (May 31, 2009)

start out slow with the nutes and work your way up, if you start seeing tips of the leaves yellowing then back off the nutes,u should be ok


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## Caretaker (May 31, 2009)

You do not want that much N in the mix. It will cause your plants to stretch and the buds wont be so thick. The other ingrediants are fine but the soil itself has enough N. N is the first number in the 3. With the soil having more than enough %.024 you dont need to add a fert that has %.010 nitrogen. But it will work, so if thats all you have it will work just start off using 1/4 strength and work up. I think thats what you wanted to hear.


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## LassChance (May 31, 2009)

White Owl said:
			
		

> Well, if I'm using FF soil, do you think it would be ok to use MG additives? MG's Better Bloom formula is a 15-30-15 blend...fairly bland, yet sustainable, right?
> 
> I just think that the combination of additives (3-4 per week) that FF suggest would cause more damamge than the ones MG puts out. Its so confusing! lol



Ive used MG soil and fets for many years for general gardening, flowers and veggies with good results.  But to tell the truth I have been a little dissapointed with MG soil for my MJ. It's pretty heavy and needs some lightening for good air-to-roots, IMO.  However, I refuse to use Fox Farm stuff on gnereral principles, LOL.  I think they charge a lotta money for a lotta stuff you dont really need. I mean...how many different ways to get nitrogen, phos and potassium do you need?  And, as you said, the feeding schedule is aimed more at using a LOT of their product and buying MORE...for the sake of the stock holders more than the grower, I expect. I dunno...there's just something about their cutesy-wootsy marketing, the psychedelic packaging...clearly aimed at MJ growers, that just pisses me off. (Cha-ching, indeed...please) Evidently FF makes good products and many growers swear by them, but the hype turns me off.

But there's a lots of other mixes besides FF or MG!  My next grow, I will either go hydro OR mnake my own organic mix.  Im thinking of building a worm bin...

But really, MG doesnt suck if you  Mix it with a goodly amount of perlite.You'll do fine. You might like to check out the info here and  google on "Hempy Buckets"-easy, cheap and NO soil at all! Perlite and vermiculite, a plastic bucket and  you're on your way. Id never heard of the Hempy Bucket when I started my grow (in MG soil), but just for the comparison, I made four Hempy's out of 2 liter soda bottles, put same-age, same size clones in MG and in the 2 liter bottles...and by golly!  The plants in the soda bottles are a little bigger than the soil-grown ones and seem...I would say, more "vibrant." Anyway, something you can consider as yet another alternative. That the soda bottle plants are a little bigger and livelier may be a fluke or may be because I dont fertilize the MG plants, since the mix already has ferts in it, but I use Botanicare nutes in the Hempy's. I did add some MG all-purpose liquid once in the MG soil and yes, I did get some nute burn. If you decide to go with the MG sopil, Id be very, very careful about adding any extra nutes, If you do, start with maybe quarter strength, then gradually move up to half-strength, but full strength WILL burn them.

That's the reason folks dont generally like MG soil--the fact that the nutes are already IN it and you have to be so careful what you add to it. My Hempy's, on the other hand LOVE the Botanicare and I can control how much nutes I give them.



Lass


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## gary18 (May 31, 2009)

MysticWolf-
I have seen acouple of your postings and like the philosity's you express!
Along the lines of " Give a man a fish, he eats for a day. Teach a man to fish and he eats for a lifetime! " , Excellent!
Sorry for jumping off topic here, just a personal note between friends.
:fly:
My son lives in Mt, I was born there. Beautiful country.


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## 4u2sm0ke (Jun 1, 2009)

White Owl said:
			
		

> This is all very valuable info, and I definitely thank all who replied. But my main question isn't so much regarding the soil; I'm using FFOF and am moving into the stage of adding nutes. I'm more concerned over the difference between the available nutes that I can add in during the watering.
> 
> When it comes to the nutes alone, should I be ok if I use the all-purpose 24-8-16 blend of MG in the *flowering* and the 15-30-15 MG blend for *blooming*? And how often should I feed?
> 
> I understand that the plants need different levels of NPK during their different stages, and I just want to give them the nutes they need without over feeding them.


 


Hello friend...IMO..you dont need nutes untill 6th week with ffof..and you have the nutes in backwards order..The first nubers higher for Veg stage  and higher second number for flower..as for the nutes  go ahead and run with the MG  just run a very lite dose..maybe 1/4 strength..The container will say how to mix..but thats for general gardening..I will also sugest you look in the organic teas..PM  me if ya like I have some I like..get a grow journal going..let me know  and ill helpo when and where i can..untill then take care and be safe:bolt::bong:


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## White Owl (Jun 1, 2009)

Ah-Ha! It's all making sense now...
Basically, I just need to go slow with the nutes at first and then gradually increase the dosage as the plants grow. Oh, and I gotta watch out for any yellowing/curling of the leaves. Gotchya! And don't forget to check the Ph...right....

Now, just to clarify...I think I'm confused on what exactly the stages are. Is it:
1. Seedling/Cloning
2. Vegging
3. Flowering ("Blooming")
4. Harvesting/Drying ("Curing")

Right?

Ok, now. For my next question... My plant is now a 4week old TrainWreck clone grown in MG soil and is 8" tall. I need to transplant it into a bigger container and will be using FFOF soil. What amount of nutes, if any, should I use and when?

Man....who knew growing some good Mj was so freaking complicated!

Lass Chance: I COMPLETELY agree with your perspective of FF's marketing! What was really bothering me was their recommended feeding schedule and the numerous different products they suggested using all at once. I mean, my biggest beef was "Why can't they just sell one big bottle of all that stuff already blended up together if they expect me to use it all in conjunction with each other anyway??". IDK...profits...


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## six_seven_one (Jun 1, 2009)

I like this thread... 
I would love to use some FF but 1. Its not available where I'm at and 2. I cant really afford it at the moment.

So I was out today looking for something available and found a Schultz bloom which is like 10-54-10.
Is this way too strong or can I use it but just keep the feeding to a minimum??

Thanx


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## Sir_Tokie (Jun 1, 2009)

Here's a basic "rule of thumb" to using any nutes on MJ whether it be organic or chemical. 1st start at 1/4 or 1/2 strength at 1st feeding. 2nd watch the plant to see how it reacts it will tell you what it likes. 3rd when ever you increase nutes do it at 1/8 strength increments and follow rule 2 until you see a slight "tip burn" on your leaf, now you have found what limits the plant can handle ( and this will be strain dependent) then back you nutes off about a 1/8 to 1/4 strength to avoid overfeeding and keep your pH adjusted to allow a drift of 6.3 to 6.8 to allow for max. nute uptake... I use FF nutes trio pack and follow their feed schedule and have never had a problem as long as you find their (plants) limits...take care..


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## Hick (Jun 1, 2009)

..If you are useing chemical fertilizers with "organic" mixes, you are most likely killing the beneficial organisms in the organic mix. Virtually nullifying the purpose of organics...IMO


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## astrobud (Jun 1, 2009)

from my experence if you must use mg, get the gardeners choice organic, go thur it and take out the bigger chunks of wood,add some perlite. start adding nutes in a couple weeks, work your way up with the nutes slowley. and it works ok.:farm:


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## Pepper (Jun 1, 2009)

White Owl said:
			
		

> First off, let me say that I am a first-time medicinal grower and I'm just trying to get a grasp on all of the techniques. I'm hearing raving reviews on Fox Farms products. However, I'm also reading online sources that say that the plants do not need as much nutrients as the FF products put out. From what I'm reading, Miracle Grow seems to have exactly what the plants need without the risk of burning them with too much NPK. Heck, MG even has a Better Bloom equivalent! I'm just confused as to what the big difference is in the two from an experienced grower's point of view: Which line of products puts out the best buds? I'm not going for profit here...I just want to smoke the best medical weed I can grow without tasting that harsh, fertilizer flavor.
> :smoke1:
> 
> Also, I was analyzing the feeding schedule suggested by FF, and it sure seems like I'm gonna be feeding my plants WAY too much! I mean, I did the math and everything...we're talking close to 50-60P in the 7th week? That just seems like a lot to me. From what other internet sources tell me, the plants should only need about 20-35P during that time (which MG provides).
> ...


 



*Fox Farm all the way*. Dont be cheap, you will regreat it. Start your grow right, order your things online if you dont have a store near you.

A cheap friend of mine also bought that MG crap, and all he does is complain, and compain, and complain some more, he is *not happy* with the results, he says next time *"will be using Fox Farm produts"*

*My garden looks like its on steroids  I only use FF products.*


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## MysticWolf (Jun 1, 2009)

First @ Whiteowl...Just make sure whatever you put in your soil mix you personal read the bags all the way...Long story short I'm Physically Challenged so often times I need help...Now Remember and keep in Mind what @ Sir_Tokie said about you know your at threshold when you get slight tip burn ...I was mixing up a big batch of organic soil for my 5 gallon buckets ...I had to use the restroom so I asked My Soulmate to mix in the bag of plain perlite and I'd be right back ...Now I've been fighting slight tip burn since the start of this grow and I now know why ...I got the shed open yesterday there sits the pain big bag of perlite all pretty like yet there is perlite in the mix....HUmmmmmmmm moment ..Then the Oh crap sets in ...My love poured in the Whole bag of MG perlite that is fortified with time release fets thay I use to lightly top dress her lilly and iris and tulip beds cause My Princess loves her pretties and Yes though I grow MJ ...I love having her beds filled with pretties so she has all the colors she loves ...Laughs left behind the grill... but brought out west 4 boxes full of bulbs ...

So I'll be watering and letting it dry to near crisp ...then water again till the plants get a lil bigger ...Lesson learned hold it till after the soils mixed no matter what ...And mark the bags in the shed....Flowers .....MJ laughing hard ...Yeah like I could sift all that perlite out now ...NOT    

Second @ gary18...Thankyou My Friend all I can say is I'm just me always and some folks like my view some don't...But I look at it this way if they read it and part helps that's a keeper the rest that does not work for them they can toss out with the trash ...And Man I love Mt too home sweet home no place on earth I'd rather be...

Learn something new every day it is good for you.

James


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## PencilHead (Jun 1, 2009)

I'll chime in in support of FF.  Those of us who've used it have had killer crops.  I'm sure an experienced botanist (or botonist) could use coffe grounds, egg shells and worm farts and get a decent crop *IF* he knew what MJ plants needed at various stages.  I'm a clumsy grower and heavy handed fertilizer-er, and FF has been very kind and forgiving.

The only problem I see with MG is that it is for potted plants, not pot plants.  FF and several other nute outfits have grown up with the market and are more or less MJ dedicated.  MG isn't.

Below is the link to FF's feeding schedule.  Listen to what 4U2 says about 1/4 to 1/2 half strength at first even with MJ specialized nutes. 
hxxp://www.foxfarmfertilizer.com/soilfeed.pdf.

Here are the N-P-K rates for the ones not on the chart: Tiger Bloom: 2-8-4; Big Bloom: .01-.3-.7; Open Sesame: 5-45-19; Beastie Bloomz: 0-50-30; Cha Ching: 9-50-10.  And, as mentioned above that's not counting the micro-nutes that seem important to MJ.  

As a ps: Just jarred my first grow.  Got 750 gms out of a 4.5'x8' room pushing 2 600w lights.  That's .63 gms per watt, a pretty unrealistic goal for a rookie, but not impossible if you pay attention and use forgiving products.

Luck and peace.


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## mrkingford (Jun 1, 2009)

If any of you follow my other posts, i used MG for my bagseed. Nothing but burnt leaves, yellow spots, etc. Pain in the ***.
This time i bought Fox farms Ocean forest and used that for my G-13 seeds.
I no longer question WHY here, i just follow directions.
I found MG is only as good as my "tin foil hat" thst i was using,lol.
(inside joke for those whom followed my threads, i love my tin foil)

My advice as a newby to you is, just give AS MUCH INFO AS POSSIBLE about your grow and you'll recieve the correct advice from many sources.

Good luck and peace........................


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## kaotik (Jun 1, 2009)

sunshine soil is quite popular around here.
i had some sunshine organic soil mix last grow, and really liked it. unfortunatly i can't find it now


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## wargasm123 (Jun 1, 2009)

Is it ok to transplant plants that are in time release mg soil to FF/equiv?

Mine are in 6"pots now and I was planning on moving them to 12" real soon.


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## dirtyolsouth (Jun 1, 2009)

White Owl said:
			
		

> Now, just to clarify...I think I'm confused on what exactly the stages are. Is it:
> 1. Seedling/Cloning
> 2. Vegging
> 3. Flowering ("Blooming")
> 4. Harvesting/Drying ("Curing")



1.  The term "Seedling" refers to a plant grown from seed.  Sex of the plant is unknown in the seedling stage.  A clone is an exact genetic copy of a host (mother) plant.  Any mj plant with a growing tip (branch with leaves) can be cloned.  Once a seedling is big enough to grow branches a clone can be taken from it. Clones need to be rooted so that it develops roots for survival and growth.  Rooting a clone takes from 7-14 days typically. Once rooted a clone can be used for sexing or simply to create an exact duplicate of the plant it was taken from for future use.  Once a suitable mother plant has been chosen clones can be taken from her for years without genetic drift.

Clones are awesome and make the mj grower's job MUCH easier!  It gives you the ability to choose from an available mother plant (or many mothers) to develop your next harvest from and you no longer have to do the slow process of growing from seed and waiting to determine the sex of you plant as it will be an identical genetic copy of your female mother plant.  You can keep your mother plant and developing clones vegging under long light conditions to keep it from flowering....  and you can keep this strain around as long as you have room for it.  

2.  "Vegging" refers to the plant's vegetative growth stage when it is kept under long daylight conditions 16/8, 18/6, 24/0, etc...and during this growth develops the roots and foliage of the plant.  

3. "Flowering" or "Budding" refers to the plant's reproduction stage and is triggered indoors by giving the plant's 12 hours of UNinterupted darkness.  After about a week to 10 days of 12/12 daylight/darkness marijuana plants in the vegetative stage begin flowering, also knows as budding.

4. "Harvesting" refers to doing just that!  Cutting down the fully mature mj plants and trimming away the leaves and stems followed by drying the flowers or buds for consumption.  "Curing" involves completing the drying process and storing the buds for a period to draw the last of the moisture out of the stems and this helps the fresh buds develop their flavor and taste and lose that 'green grass' taste.  If you search "Curing" on the forums you'll find some good learning threads...

I hope this helps...     It's a decent starting point but you can learn much more about each of these in many threads and FAQS if you do a little searching...

Peace!


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## dirtyolsouth (Jun 1, 2009)

wargasm123 said:
			
		

> Is it ok to transplant plants that are in time release mg soil to FF/equiv?
> 
> Mine are in 6"pots now and I was planning on moving them to 12" real soon.



Yes!  Your roots will like the new soil just fine...


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## waterheadduo (Jun 1, 2009)

Let me tell ya, I will never use MG again.  Every plant that we used MG for had problems from the very get go.  They all started turning yellow in the 3rd or 4th week of vegging.  So, we had to use some PH down and that seemed to help.  All of the plants were very stretchy.  You would think this would have more to do with the lights than the MG, but I will explain in a minute about how I know this is not the case.  Now the plants are in the flowering stage and we don't expect to get very much yield out of these plants.  I think the MG was too harsh for the plants and therefore affected their entire plant life from sprout to flowers.

After that experience and reading several, several good reviews about FF, we used it on our next batch of plants.  Same conditions as the first.  We used the same lighting, same area, and same watering schedule.  However, with the FF plants, we have not had one single plant start turning yellow.  They all grew to be very bushy plants, not stretchy.  The plants are just now entering flowering, so I have no results for that.  But just from the difference in experience so far, I would vote for FF hands down.


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## wargasm123 (Jun 1, 2009)

dirtyolsouth said:
			
		

> 1.  The term "Seedling" refers to a plant grown from seed.  Sex of the plant is unknown in the seedling stage.  A clone is an exact genetic copy of a host (mother) plant.  Any mj plant with a growing tip (branch with leaves) can be cloned.  Once a seedling is big enough to grow branches a clone can be taken from it. Clones need to be rooted so that it develops roots for survival and growth.  Rooting a clone takes from 7-14 days typically. Once rooted a clone can be used for sexing or simply to create an exact duplicate of the plant it was taken from for future use.  Once a suitable mother plant has been chosen clones can be taken from her for years without genetic drift.
> 
> Clones are awesome and make the mj grower's job MUCH easier!  It gives you the ability to choose from an available mother plant (or many mothers) to develop your next harvest from and you no longer have to do the slow process of growing from seed and waiting to determine the sex of you plant as it will be an identical genetic copy of your female mother plant.  You can keep your mother plant and developing clones vegging under long light conditions to keep it from flowering....  and you can keep this strain around as long as you have room for it.
> 
> ...



One part I'm confused about a little here.  A seedling with a branch tip can be made into a mother for cloning,  how do you tell it's female if you haven't flowered it yet?  

Thanks


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## HazeMe (Jun 2, 2009)

IMO, I would NEVER use MG for MJ! Just my 2 cents on that. 

When I grow I try to keep all nutes at bare minimums. I never use the full amount recommended. I always use at most half or less. I try to keep everything as clean (least nutes possible) and natural as possible. 

Good Luck 
HazeMe


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## purplephazes (Jun 2, 2009)

you should call in the brothersgrunt !MG WORKS FOR  him ! peace and take care !


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## White Owl (Jun 2, 2009)

So I've made my decision...FFOF soil all the way. My plants DO NOT like MG soil! However, I'm at the cloning stage now, and I have another question....
When putting baby clones in dit, is it ok top use FFOF soil or should I use a milder orgaqnic soil? I've heard that FF soil is too rich for baby clones.


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## Hick (Jun 2, 2009)

White Owl said:
			
		

> So I've made my decision...FFOF soil all the way. My plants DO NOT like MG soil! However, I'm at the cloning stage now, and I have another question....
> When putting baby clones in dit, is it ok top use FFOF soil or should I use a milder orgaqnic soil? I've heard that FF soil is too rich for baby clones.



http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=18056#post18056


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## gary18 (Jun 2, 2009)

I have yet another question along those lines, how about a mix, I have a friend that is using 4 parts FFOF, one part Organics Choice by MG, one part Perlite. The five clones he put into soilmix in 4in pots 10 days ago, they started out strong but seemed to have stopped any new growth at all about five days in. Liting is 2 400wt hps,two sets of 4 flor ( 4ft ), that have the plant & Aquarium bulbs. This is in a 4ftx6ft enclosure, the room has 4 of these, contructed of 2in styrafoam stuck together by nitting needles, pretty nice. The flors are for side lighting.
Today the stems are losing alot of color, but the rest is still a healthy green.


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## manels1111 (Jun 2, 2009)

If you surf around the sick plant forum for any length of time and read every day the new posts of plant problems.  You will see a recurring theme with MG soil.  Not to say you can't grow nice plants in it but after reading sick plant section for better part of a year there tons of posts of sick plants with beginners growing in MG.  Just what I have learned I wouldn't touch it with stick just by the amount of problems I have read with it.  Every now and then you read of people having success with it but thats to far and few between.


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## Caretaker (Jun 2, 2009)

I have perfect sucess with MG. If any of my plants were ever not liking anything it was me adjusting the PH. Its all about going at it the right way. To many people that us MG soil also use a fert thats high in N. With the soil having a butt load already there is no need for more. I cant stand people saying dont use it. Its more like dont use it if you do not know how to work it correctly. My plants couldnt be happier  in veg when using MG. You just have to make sure to add a good blooming nute after a little bit to give that soil a kick.


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## manels1111 (Jun 3, 2009)

I agree caretaker but the thing is most beginners don't know how to use it(just check the sick plant forum) and about the only person who would be asking "what soil should I use" would probably be a beginner.  Depending on which MG you get you can easily burn little guys and increase that chance if your and over watering beginner.  

For beginners I would say it can easily cause you problems.  If your going to use MG make sure you know darn well what kind of MG you should be using and what nutes you should not give and which you should is all.


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## gary18 (Jun 3, 2009)

I use FFOF myself as that is what was left for me, for blooming nutes I am using FF Big Bloom, reduced by 1/2 FF rec's. The experement with the mix was intended to add alittle extra without doing too much, we're both old dogs so we have lots of patience.
I like what I see with the FFOF because it's rite here in my face ya know.
I have seen Caretakers pics and they are nice, I would have never guessed that MG was involved. Nice job.
I was mainly curious if a mix like that had been tried by anyone here, I trust the opinions here. Or most anyway. Gotta get back to my constuction. Building my light frame, gotta finish my new room asap.
take care thx for the input, will keep you posted if interested.


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## White Owl (Jun 3, 2009)

Thank you so much for that link Hick. I was looking for good instructions through the forum however with Dial-Up I seem to be having difficulties browsing when the server has alot of people on it!  

I am going to experiment with my Tomatos as my girls are still small & I don't want to lose any of their babies. LOL


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## bluealein56 (Jun 4, 2009)

i know im really late on this and havent read past the first two reply's but it has been a long time for me, and i will say your crazy if you willingly choose mg over ff. i nuted mine everytime i watered, twice a week at the higher dosages than recomended on the bottle and i pullled in over a pound off four plants in my 2nd grow. Mg killed my first plant in under three weeks. ff is pretty much geared to what your wanting to grow, where as mg is more focused towards my pretty annuals exploding with colorful flowers out front. get what im saying?


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## Caretaker (Jun 4, 2009)

I dont think I would choose MG over FF but if my money was tight or I dont want to walk out of the hyrdo store with 5 bags of that stuff. a 2 cu ft bag of MG fills 5 3gal buckets. FF is 1cu ft a bag. I would atleast need 4 of those. I guess thats not to bad. I just dont like hydro stores. I hope that not a start to paranoia. Im statewide legal though so I dont know. I said before what I am doing is working so I dont want to stray right now and maybe have to relearn that soil. I need a stored crop though so if I dont like results I still have goods. But I almost garuntee I will do better. I just dont have the money to afford that stuff ontop of going to the store that sells it. Why wouldnt home depot sell it? Is it like the PRO TEAM of all dirts? Whats better than fox farm?

edit FFOF is  a 1.5 cu. ft. bag


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## gary18 (Jun 4, 2009)

I have a friend up in Washington that bought some generic soil called Rapid Grow Organics from a local nursery, he now swears by this stuff. Says it is not only easy to work with but its about $5 cheaper, will try to get more info, availability, nut content etc. I do know he had a bumper crop off that first planting he did, almost 1/3 more product and the only thing he had changed was the soil.
Take care, happy growing.
:bong:


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## bluealein56 (Jun 5, 2009)

i have never used the soil just the nutes and additives. i used an orgainc soil mixture that i found at the local nursery, added a little lime and peat moss and it worked amazing for me. but ff soil is pretty much the bad *EDIT* of soils when it comes to the goods.


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