# Molasses & Hydro? Bad idea??



## woodydude (Mar 6, 2011)

Ok, so I've read a bit of stuff about using Black Strap Molasses and the benefits it can have for growing. I found somewhere local I can buy some but they are wnating £15 ($22) for about a gallon (5l). Comparing this to anything in my local hydro store, it is very cheap, especially if it is anywhere near as good as suggested in this thread (http://www.marijuanapassion.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5149)
All good so far, except, I grow with hydro.
I have just started switching over to an rdwc system, so there is a pump and the air stones to consider. I dont want to buy it then not be able to use it for clogging stuff up.

Does anyone who grows with hydro use this stuff?
Thanks
W


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## niteshft (Mar 6, 2011)

I could be wrong but I'm going to throw this out there and see.
 From what I can tell, the use of molassas and it's benefits on growing mj has been over stated by suppliers/producers of nutrients for increase in income.
 I have always been under the impression that molasses was being added to the soil to benefit the microbs in the soil which in turn work on turning the soil into beneficial nutrients that the roots can take up. Roots cannot take the soil and turn it into nutrients itself and rely on the microbes in the soil to do it for them so healthy microbes make for healthy plants. 
 Since hydro contains all the nessassary nutrients I'm uncertain how beneficial adding molassas to the mix really is.


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## BBFan (Mar 6, 2011)

:yeahthat: :goodposting: 

I would agree with niteshft.  While molasses contains some beneficial micronutrients that mj needs, there are better ways of delivering them than through the use of molasses.  Though I'm a soil grower, I think this would be especially true in hydro.

But, IMO it is essential (molasses) in organic soil grows.  Feed the soil! :farm:


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## Roddy (Mar 6, 2011)

Am using molasses and like the results so far. Bought a gallon for $2.50 from the local feed mill...$.25/pound


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## Thailord (Mar 6, 2011)

Never use Molasses in hydro, it almost always causes problems.  Molasses is used for soil grows to excel microbe activity.  Not only does it excel microbe activity, it also possesses many trace minerals and micronutrients often used up by the plants during the veg & preflower.  

I very much doubt suppliers/producers of nutrient lines are over stating benefits when many make their own watered down versions of molasses.  What would be the benefit of over stating molasses to increase the sales of their products when their products run $20+ per liter and a bottle of blackstrap molasses is like $3 and last for ever?  Now alot of the negative info on molasses is put out there by these companies so they can better promote their products.  Every nutrient line has a breakdown of what it consist of, all it takes is a little research and understanding clever word play to realize that alot of these companies making these additives are just producing a product similar to molasses.  These additives IMHO ar enot worth the money when the proper molasses regime in a grow can produce the same, if not better results.


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## fruity86 (Mar 6, 2011)

Didnt ogkushman do it and only used it  on its own the last week of flowering and he got over 1gpw im sure it was him if i remember right it was carboload and the ppm was 500 i remember the pic of the stem it looked like it was bubbleing juicey stuff lol


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## woodydude (Mar 6, 2011)

Love the idea of one of my plants "bubbling juicy stuff" no matter what that stuff is, just sounds cool.

I have a friend who grows soil so I may persuade him to go shares with me on some and run it for the last week in my buckets. I know it has many benefits in soil and that it feeds the microbes that live in soil in the same way that many products selling for big bucks claim to benefit the bacteria in the root zone in soil or hydro.

Hopefully someone out there has tried it successfully as I really fancy giving it a go, just not confident enough on my own!

Thanks guys.
W


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## Roddy (Mar 6, 2011)

Go for it, Woody...what do you have to lose??  Seriously though, is there any way to can run a single bucket to experiment?


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## woodydude (Mar 7, 2011)

I could run a single bucket Roddy, I dont want to do anything with my current girls, I have had a real hard time with them, shall we say they have been a learning experience so I dont want to mess anything up there.
I run perpetual harvests, 4 groups of plants spaced 2 weeks apart so when my next batch is due to go into flower this weekend coming I will separate out a bucket and give it a try. Problem is, I wont be able to use the water pump doing it that way, so it will distort the results regarding yield and it is the pump I was concerned about. 

It just came to me, I am going to be testing some new buckets I have made up in a couple of days and I am due a res change, so if I use the old nute solution for the test run, I can see how bad the BSM is and post some pics.

Good thinking Roddy, tx 4 that. WIll get back to this once I have run the test.


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## Gixxerman420 (Mar 7, 2011)

Might be wrong, but i'm thinking any sort of molasses or molasses blend would eventually gum your lines up... Might be suitable for a DWC bucket... What hydro system are you running, top feed, ebb & flow, DWC etc.?


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## Roddy (Mar 7, 2011)

Not sure if this helps or not, but at my local feed mill, they also sell "dry" molasses...I am assuming this would be a powder form? If so, would this be an alternative?


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## woodydude (Mar 7, 2011)

Thanks for the interest Gix, that was my concern, clogged lines, especially the pump and 4mm line for the drippers. I have switched nearly all my grow to RDWC buckets but each bucket has a 2l/h dripper on it dripping nute solution down through the netpot, fed from a controller bucket, which recirculates the solution rather than just pumping the solution directly into the base of the buckets as is normal in RDWC.

Roddy, BSM has been ordered now, just a 350ml jar for the time being to see if I can get it to work. Only £2 inc delivery so I thought it was worth trying. If I didnt try it, I will be constantly wanting to try it out. I am a real PITA once I get an idea in my head.


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## Wetdog (Mar 7, 2011)

I'm in soil also, but from reading and talking, molasses in hydro is a bad idea. Mainly from the gumming up part, but IIRC it can also sour.

They do make sugars just for hydro use, but I don't know the names and of course, they are much more expensive.

Good idea trying it on a separate bucket. I just can't recall any positive results from molasses in hydro.

Wet


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## StoneyBud (Mar 7, 2011)

Wetdog said:
			
		

> I'm in soil also, but from reading and talking, molasses in hydro is a bad idea. Mainly from the gumming up part, but IIRC it can also sour.
> 
> They do make sugars just for hydro use, but I don't know the names and of course, they are much more expensive.
> 
> ...


 
I agree. Molasses works well as a SOIL additive to improve the microbic activity in SOIL, but I have heard or read of nothing that supports it's use in a hydroponic system.

I'll save my molasses for what it works best for:


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## woodydude (Mar 7, 2011)

Munchies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Gixxerman420 (Mar 7, 2011)

woodydude said:
			
		

> Thanks for the interest Gix, that was my concern, clogged lines, especially the pump and 4mm line for the drippers. I have switched nearly all my grow to RDWC buckets but each bucket has a 2l/h dripper on it dripping nute solution down through the netpot, fed from a controller bucket, which recirculates the solution rather than just pumping the solution directly into the base of the buckets as is normal in RDWC.
> 
> Roddy, BSM has been ordered now, just a 350ml jar for the time being to see if I can get it to work. Only £2 inc delivery so I thought it was worth trying. If I didnt try it, I will be constantly wanting to try it out. I am a real PITA once I get an idea in my head.


Okay, what's RDWC? And also dry molasses was brought up... My thought is that it's probably dehydrated in which case once mixed, would present the same issues as regular molasses... Idk though!


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## CasualGrower (Mar 7, 2011)

Never tried it myself.... But I think any benefit you could gain in Hydro from molassas you would also get the same benefit using any of the SWEET nutrients..... 

 Not sure I would throw a few dolops of that thick stuff in my system...Could try to dissolve a lil bit in a pot of warm water down good and add it to the mix.....  I wouldn't... but if I did... that would be how I would do it.

Good luck if ya do it.


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## StoneyBud (Mar 7, 2011)

My largest problem with using anything that could be interpreted as "food" to any type of insect is that I live in Florida.

Florida is currently being leased from the bugs. If they detect food availability inside your home, they WILL come in to see what smells so good.

I'm afraid that a big tub full of what they would consider sugar soup would just be an attractant to them.

I spray every square inch of my roof, outside walls and six feet out from the house, once a month, 12 months a year.

I STILL get bugs that make it in. True, I find them in their death-throes, feet towards the sky, but I'm not going to make a tub full of bug-sugar-soup that would attract them even more. :shocked:


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## Thailord (Mar 7, 2011)

Gixxerman420 said:
			
		

> Might be wrong, but i'm thinking any sort of molasses or molasses blend would eventually gum your lines up... Might be suitable for a DWC bucket... What hydro system are you running, top feed, ebb & flow, DWC etc.?


 
I have also heard of it glogging up pumps and such as well.  I would not use it b/c it is very heavy and even if mixed properly will still leave sticky residue.


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## CasualGrower (Mar 7, 2011)

StoneyBud said:
			
		

> My largest problem with using anything that could be interpreted as "food" to any type of insect is that I live in Florida.
> 
> Florida is currently being leased from the bugs. If they detect food availability inside your home, they WILL come in to see what smells so good.
> 
> ...


 

/agree...  Pests could/would be a  HUGE problem... If not sooner... but later.... they WILL find it....

But I am guessing you wont be sitting your plants in a molassass laden syrup mix....  maybe just a coule tablespoons for 5 gals of water....

This being said....  I would still look at some of the sweet additives....  I think Botanicare actually calls theirs SWEET...  I think there is a "carboload" out there and a few others.....   Look on the ingredient list... I am not ositive as I have not shopped around for a while, but I am beleiving I remember seeing Molassass as an additive to some of those...

I would stay away from the straight stuff...


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## woodydude (Mar 8, 2011)

Gixx, RDWC is recirculating deep water culture. Basically hydro buckets where the water is also pumped around the system. I have my pump feeding drippers which drip into the netpots. Not the kind of thing you want clogging up with sticky goo!

Casual, my plan was to disolve some BSM into boiling water, let it cool, then add to system. 

LMAO @ bugs in Florida! I am in Scotland on the East coast, on the West coast they get midges but over here no such problems!

I read the article in my first post in this thread, it was good and made a very good case for using BSM. I understand it is meant for the microbes that live in soil but is it the microbes in the soil or the root mass?

Either way, I am going to run a little experiment over a day or so to see what happens. I will be using an old solution after a res change, it wont have the plants in it but it is not the plants I was worried about, more concerned with everything cloggin up with goo.


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## robz (Mar 9, 2011)

Been there done that. Won't do it again. Slimy roots equals unhappy plants.


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## woodydude (Mar 9, 2011)

Ok, so I've been running a test ojn the equipment over the last 24 hours.
I have uploaded some pics since someone asked about what a RDWC is and I thought it sensible to post pics to show howw I set this up as it is a little different from others.

Start with a bucket, this is 20l (just over 5 US Gal)



Stick an airstone in it with some tubing.




Connect tubing to a pump, for the purposes of this test, it is a 10l/min variable air pump. I normally connect 2 outlets to 1 bucket, giving 5l/min per bucket but I use 2 pumps with 1 connection from each in case a pump fails, it means I shouldnt have plants dying on me.



I also have a dripper delivering solution through the netpot, just 2l/h of solution, I saw it being used and since I had the equipment I thought why not. I have no proof if there is any benefit to doing this. The dripper is connected to a low power water pump.

The buckets are joined together by hoses which are connected by push fit connections which have a valve to turn off supply to any bucket so they can be moved, changed/whatever. I like building in some flexibility to anything I make.



This is a 4 bucket setup, 3 would normally contain plants, the 4th is the controller bucket which is used to save having to disturb the plants for checking ph, topping up, adding nutes etc. As the 4 are connected together, the level of liquid as the same in each. If I need to remove a bucket, say if a plant matures earlier than others, I raise its bucket above the liquid level, drain it, close the tap, then unhook it.



This was a test run for leaks, better if they happen in my kitchen than in the m iddle of my grow room. Since I wanted to try out the molasses on the equipment, I used a 2 week old nute solution I had from yesterdays nute change over. AN sensi bloom with big bud.


I disolved 2tbl spoons of molasses into boiling water and mixed. Then I left it for half an hour to cool before adding it to the solution and set up.


What did I learn from this? Well, the molasses didnt clog as I expected, everything ran fine and since I was using restrictive drippers, restricted to 2l/h, I thought they may clog up worse but I think a much longer test would need to be ran.
Of course there were no plants used in this test so I cannot say anything about slimey roots. When I have had slimey roots in the past, it has been algae and was cured by using H2O2 but since the idea of using molasses is to feed the friendly bacteria that live in the root zone, adding H2O2 would probably just kill them off so the whole exercise would be pointless. Since the aim is to feed the bacteria, I would think the benefit of doing this would be to do so early in flowering or evn through veg, to do it just for the last week or 2 of flower seems pointless to me, even in soil.

I intend to try it out for a week when I put some plants in to flower this weekend. Again, to check the effects on the kit and to see if slimey roots appear. I will be keeping a close eye on things though and the first sign of hassle will get rid of the molasses.


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## niteshft (Mar 9, 2011)

Clogging happens over a long period of time by crystals forming around the opening and inside the tubing.

 Has anyone made rock candy by hanging a string in a container of sugar solution? This is the same thing that is happening here but in the lines and around the openings rather than on the string.


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