# for the record, Vertical growing, you WILL NEVER yield more than this



## JBonez (Jul 11, 2011)

Said it before and I'll say it again, after seeing it for the first time, I once spoke too soon, and decided I'd seen enough research to assert my opinion.

Well boys and gals I'm back to make it official.  3.5 pounds off a 1k 

The secret? Your veg game!

Plants vegged under floros till they were 3 feet before the switch with 6 plants around a 1k.


That number will only grow, I promise. 

Special thanks to a special grower changing the game (if he ever reads this)
And I'm on track to pull 4 off the next run.

Wa gwaan!


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 11, 2011)

ostpicsworthless: We want Porn More bud Pornostpicsworthless: 

:welcome: Glad to see your still kickin it :48:


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## JBonez (Jul 11, 2011)

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> ostpicsworthless: We want Porn More bud Pornostpicsworthless:
> 
> :welcome: Glad to see your still kickin it :48:



Srry ozzy, at this point in the game I can't risk having media around with pics, it'd be different if the grow was at my house, but I'm running it from a friends,

I assure you tho, I may be being modest even, top to bottom production with vert, its the best method to date. No one can challenge this and there is nothing to prove when it's a known fact.


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## TheKlonedRanger (Jul 11, 2011)

I'm in the process of moving to a new state, and I'm thinking about setting my new grow room up in a vert style with two 600's.


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 11, 2011)

No Worries bro. I was just giving you  a hard time. I just glad to see your still safe and living the good lifeeace:
:48:


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## JBonez (Jul 11, 2011)

TheKlonedRanger said:
			
		

> I'm in the process of moving to a new state, and I'm thinking about setting my new grow room up in a vert style with two 600's.



Thats exactly what ole bonez is building right now in 4x8 tent. Veg the plants till they are 2-3 feet, they won't stretch up much but they will be stacked with bud, 2 600's vert will do 4 lbs easy. Let me know if you wanna know the dynamics of my setup and why it works so good. Ps I use a 4' 6bulb floro to veg all these plants and they veg while the flowering cycle is going so a good two months veg and they are huge by the time you rotate them in, tons of bud!!!


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## TheKlonedRanger (Jul 11, 2011)

You've got my attention for sure bonez.  We are in the process of house hunting now and I've got a strict rule about it having a mancave of some sort to grow in. 

I'm liking the sound of this grow style at the new crib. I'm all ears J


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## JBonez (Jul 11, 2011)

You should see my mancave, living in the burbs has it's perks


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## greenmentat (Jul 11, 2011)

So, are you training all the branches to face the light or turning the plants daily? 

On a side note it'd be funny to have 6 plants spinning on potters wheel type mechanisms around a 1k light.


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## nouvellechef (Jul 11, 2011)

Been doing it for years. Best advice when running them. Is do not water with lights on. Blinds you from the light spread and really bad for your eyes. Secondly, always water with bulbs off. I still have a few light burns from hitting the bulbs ): and lastly, always use swivel locks to hold your mogul sockets. S hooks can fall easily, shattering your bulbs. GL all.


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## ston-loc (Jul 11, 2011)

Can someone explain this? Or post a link? Pretty sure I've scrolled the stickys but not heard/seen this technique.


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## JBonez (Jul 12, 2011)

Chef is right, you can go blind doing this, seriously guys, I'm already having slight issues with my eyes part in fact I'm getting older, but still.


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 12, 2011)

Go get a pair a welding goggles for when you need to be in heir with the lights.


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## JBonez (Jul 12, 2011)

I got the old people murdered out goggles, my wife gets a laugh.

Fashion a blocker that can be put on the light. I use the round reflector part from inside my cool tube and it fits around half of the tube so I'm not blinded.


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## SKAGITMAGIC (Jul 12, 2011)

ston-loc said:
			
		

> Can someone explain this? Or post a link? Pretty sure I've scrolled the stickys but not heard/seen this technique.


 you take your lightbulb and socket out of the reflector and hang it vertically.

I thought everybody knew that in most cases the longer you veged the bigger your yield, didn't know it was a secret. i'm pulling up a chair, quoteThats exactly what ole bonez is building right now in 4x8 tent. Veg the plants till they are 2-3 feet, they won't stretch up much but they will be stacked with bud, 2 600's vert will do 4 lbs easy. Let me know if you wanna know the dynamics of my setup and why it works so good. Ps I use a 4' 6bulb floro to veg all these plants and they veg while the flowering cycle is going so a good two months veg and they are huge by the time you rotate them in, tons of bud!!!  let's hear the scoop on the set-up, I'd really like to increase my yield!!
__________________



			
				JBonez said:
			
		

> Chef is right, you can go blind doing this, seriously guys, I'm already having slight issues with my eyes part in fact I'm getting older, but still.


 you might try dididium lenses, I think thats what the're called, hot glass artists wear them.


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## Dr. Manny Bowles (Jul 12, 2011)

SKAGITMAGIC said:
			
		

> you might try dididium lenses, I think thats what the're called, hot glass artists wear them.



+1. Great idea Skagit! Didymiums would block a good amount of glare. If a person really wanted to make an investment in their eyes and spend some money, look into a set of Aura Lens'- hXXp://www.auralens.net/index1.cfm
I have the AGW-286 in a shade 4/2 and they are pretty dark. I've worked with a shade 6 and you could probably stare at the sun with a set of those. A 5/2 split or even 5/1 would be pretty nice for grow room protection I bet. A shade 5 is supposed to filter around 97% of all UV and infrared 18" or so from the source if I remember right. 

Sorry to jump off topic. I'm also interested in hearing more on your setup JBonez. Is there a minimum space size that would be ideal for something like this? And do the plants need to be rotated?


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## Mutt (Jul 12, 2011)

I always run vert if I can, makes multi strain growing 1000x easier. Not a big issue running sativas and indicas in the same flower room.


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## Locked (Jul 12, 2011)

I wanted to run vert last year but I didn't think my 4x4x6.5 tent was big enough....maybe next run this fall.


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## Mutt (Jul 12, 2011)

keep in mind peeps, some MH bulbs can only run vert, or only run horizontal, while others are universal. If using MH to boost veg, make sure you select the correct bulb for the application.
HPS are universal.


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## SKAGITMAGIC (Jul 12, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> keep in mind peeps, some MH bulbs can only run vert, or only run horizontal, while others are universal. If using MH to boost veg, make sure you select the correct bulb for the application.
> HPS are universal.


 I remember my old set-up i bought through hightimes mag. It's been so long but I think the MH bulb said BU, bottoms up, it meant never run horizontal.


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## Xeblaro (Jul 13, 2011)

Are you guys talking about the bulb setup, or the actually growth of the plants being tall (not bushy)?


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## JBonez (Jul 13, 2011)

And this is why I am rarely on this site, quit bickering!


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## dman1234 (Jul 13, 2011)

But what went on had nothing to do with this site, that was obvious.


if i should delete this post i will just ask.


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## Hick (Jul 13, 2011)

cleaned up for ya bonzee 



			
				Xeblaro said:
			
		

> Are you guys talking about the bulb setup, or the actually growth of the plants being tall (not bushy)?


hanging the bulbs vertical X'..


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 14, 2011)

JBonez said:
			
		

> Said it before and I'll say it again, after seeing it for the first time, I once spoke too soon, and decided I'd seen enough research to assert my opinion.
> 
> Well boys and gals I'm back to make it official.  3.5 pounds off a 1k
> 
> ...



T4


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## JBonez (Jul 16, 2011)

T4, I got a 600w tent going as well with 8 plants trained like a champ, it's funny you mentioned that, I can't post a pic, but I'll let you know, I doubt I'll get 33oz, lol, the genetics I run aren't the biggest yielders, some are, but I'd be happy with a lb outa this run. I'm building a dual vert 600w 4x8 tent, which should net about 4 lbs outa 10 2-month vegged plants under horizontal lighting. I'm just bragging because the fundamentals of growing are really paying off in the harvest with every run and it just gets better.


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## mountain man (Jul 16, 2011)

But, your math is WAAAY off !!


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## valleyboy (Jul 17, 2011)

I'm having a little trouble here.  Clearly 3.5 per 1k is great.  


Is this thread promoting vertical lighting or the big veg/super cropping method?


If this thread is promoting vertical lighting, can someone please explain how this benefits the plant more than horizontal lighting with a reflector/hood.


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## dman1234 (Jul 17, 2011)

valleyboy said:
			
		

> I'm having a little trouble here. Clearly 3.5 per 1k is great.
> 
> 
> Is this thread promoting vertical lighting or the big veg/super cropping method?
> ...


 

I think it has somthing to do with using 360 degrees of the bulb, instead of 180, but i dont know, someone will.


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## Locked (Jul 17, 2011)

I wish I had the money and space to do it like this...    youtube.com/watch?v=z8AkrfY4LZc


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## Locked (Jul 17, 2011)

Found this online...kinda gives the basics.


*Learn all you need to know about vertical growing

Vertical growing is a modern trend in the cannabis cultivation community that is a very effective means of growing.

It is, indeed, the most space efficient way to grow marijuana.

The whole idea to the cram as many plants as possible into the smallest space possible.

So how do you go about that? Well a table with a light above it sure doesn't sound very effective. Growing smaller plants on shelves? Better, but we can one up that.

How about growing your marijuana plants horizontally on shelves. That is the whole idea behind vertical growing. You have a high-wattage light source, with no reflectors, completely surrounded by plants.

Usually, a grower will have a tube running from the floor to the ceiling containing HID lights. Usually they will use 2400-4000 watts, and 3-4 600-1000 watt bulbs running through the tube. This tube gets very hot, so you need to air-cool the light with a powerful fan, something on the order of 650 cpm or more.

The shelving surrounding the light tube is often a 7-sided octagon, with one side left open so you can access inside the structure. You can use a square or anything else you want...but the octagon seems to be the best way to get a lot of plants and even light distribution between the plants. 3-4 shelves is best. The plants are generally cocked up a 45 degree angle. and allowed to grow horizontally naturally as they grow toward the light.

This can be done with soil or with a variation of an ebb-and-flow hydroponic system. If using soil, naturally you'll be doing more work in the long run, but you can construct the shelving pretty easily with wood.

Most marijuana growers use a hydroponic system. If you're growing in such a modern way, why go back to the stone age for the medium?

For a hydroponic setup, you'll need a reservoir able to hold at least 100 gallons of water. You'll need powerful pumps, about 750 gph for the higher shelves, and at least 350 for the lower shelves. The shelves should be hollow, as you'll be running water through them. You could make these out of PVC piping. You'll need an entry point for the hose on each level of shelving, and 3-4 holes on top of each straight section of tubing for the plants. You'll need to make a drain for each shelf too.

No need to get too complicated, I would use seperate pumps and for each level of shelving...but it would certainly be possible to only pump to the top level and allow it to trickle down slowly to each level, until finally exiting through the bottom level.

You can fit the holes you've made in the tubing for the plants with pots that have slits or holes and use a medium like expanded clay pellets, or you can skip pots entirely and simply use rockwool.

To give you an idea of what your system could look like, check out this hydroponic vertical growing system. The hydrogon system has a great design for vertical hydroponic growing. It's hard to find stackable light tubes, so while they are very expensive, when I eventually do my own vertical grow...I'll probably get my light tube from them.

However, they charge over $2000 for the hydrogon system. You could probably make something pretty easily that looks similar for $200-300. In you happen to be rich, go ahead and buy one. Otherwise, make one like the rest of us. If you're too lazy to make one...you probably should'nt be growing indoor marijuana. It's quite a bit of work.

The ultimate growing system, in my opinion, is a hydroponic vertical growing system, with a screen of green between the plants and the light tube. Hopefully I'll have one in a year or so.*


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 17, 2011)

Ill just grab a link to 'HeathRobinsons' vert grows if someone needs pointers as he is THE MAN.
If im not mistaken he yeilded 43oz from one plant and 32oz from the other.
hxxp://www.strainguide.org/rockwool-grow/heath-robinson-cannabis-critical-mass-tree-grow
T4


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## JBonez (Jul 18, 2011)

mountain man said:
			
		

> But, your math is WAAAY off !!



Do explain yourself good sir. 

And guys while we are here to discuss this method we aren't here to question this over horizontal, verticL dominates mathematically and no matter what math doesn't tell fibs.
The math is in the light that isn't being refleted, and the shear sq footage that a vert light nets, 

So let's stay focused and I'm not going tit for tat with anyone, I'm certainly no rookie and doubt it would be a good idea. Thanks!


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## NorCalHal (Jul 18, 2011)

Vert is the trend for sure. Vert around RDWC is really whats happening.

I was fortunate enough to go to the Garden Expo in SF over the weekend. Sunlight is introducing a new Aircooled hood that the bulb hangs verticle in it. They did not discuss the cost, but it was pretty cool. They said the hood would be available in the next 6-8 months.

And GH finnaly came out with thier own Cal-Mag, and is introducing thier own Silicate also for all the R/O users.


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## WeedHopper (Jul 18, 2011)

Very interesting read indead.


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## dman1234 (Jul 18, 2011)

I have 2 600 watt cooltubes, i have been thinking about going vert for the last 8 months, LOL, this thread has pushed me to actually do it at the end of August.

Question is would you guys suggest hanging the cooltubes, or go bare bulb with them both.


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 18, 2011)

Hi dman id go with the aircooling to the cooltubes and fyi there is now a double bulbed twin cooltube which has 2 bulbs sit in it one each end using 2 x ballasts upto 1000w each bulb upto user btw its only £65 for the tube no wiring or ballasts of course.
Did anyone check out heathrobinsons vert critical mass grow i posted link too as its amazing.
T4


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## dman1234 (Jul 18, 2011)

Thanks T4, that video you linked is sick, when they say trees they mean it, biggest indoor plants i ever seen.


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 18, 2011)

Yes heath is da man for sure in vert growing but ive read his diaries on many sites documenting all his grows and he dont do anything special just room dialed in and a couple of 6ft plants and time for action.
He has done coliseum type grows too which are pretty impressive apart from being caught with loads of plants much better to do 2 x 6 footers.
Lol
T4


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## valleyboy (Jul 18, 2011)

Hamster Lewis said:
			
		

> Found this online...kinda gives the basics.
> 
> 
> *Learn all you need to know about vertical growing...*



Thanks hammy.  I have seen those in magazines before.  For some reason I was imagining a single bulb hanging vertically over a SOG.



Did you build your own Mr. Bonez?


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## Irish (Jul 19, 2011)

are these weights wet hanging bud? if so then my one 400 nets that horizontal in soil containers. (now if it's dry weight, i'm interested)...

people confuse me when they start stating weights, and never say whether wet or dry, cured weight, so i can only assume this would be wet weight?...

this equals one pound once dryed...it's honed to grow a pound every run,w/o training...thats a gram per watt with one 400hps. (a pic is worth a thousand words)...

we work on what we can visually see for the most part. the rest is from experience. nothing like a nice visual! no pics=no credit. lol...

someones gotta bust you're chops...lol ...(show me the pics!!!)...


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 19, 2011)

Hi Irish heathrobinsons was cured bud.
Nice haul imho and yours look very nice indeed too.
T4


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## dman1234 (Jul 19, 2011)

i dont understand why anyone would even weigh it wet? what would be the point.


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## Rosebud (Jul 19, 2011)

:yeahthat: I quit weighing mine wet this last grow. I know that what ever it weighs wet it will weigh a quarter of that when dried. So why weigh it wet.


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## JBonez (Jul 19, 2011)

dman1234 said:
			
		

> i dont understand why anyone would even weigh it wet? what would be the point.



Thank you.

It's not even possible for me to prove it. I can say whatever the he'll I want.

It's the fact that I have finally achieved that weight after years of learning that should intrigue you (Irish), and I've been working up to it. 

Again please read a book. I can't grow for anyone. I achieved what has already been done before, why jump me?


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## Irish (Jul 19, 2011)

not jumping you j, just hard to chew on what i can't see...show me some pics, and we'll discuss vert grows. i am all ears and eyes...

even if this had been in advanced techniques, i would still question 'anyone' with no pics, making that claim. don't take it personal. it's an mj site and i'll say it again, a pic is worth a thousand words...no pic. no credit. thats a pretty simple rule of thumb on all mj sites i've visited. it is a civil request to want to see the pics, and i asked in a civil manner...


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## WeedHopper (Jul 19, 2011)

Smoke a bowl guys,,starten to sound like the Casey Anthony case.


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## Time4Plan-B (Jul 19, 2011)

Get a room you two
lol
nah jesting im with ya irish on this no pics no proof.
T4


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## nouvellechef (Jul 19, 2011)

Do we need vert pics? I have done everything from 12k watts, 18 plants, 2.5lb's per site and 4k watts, 45 plants, 3.5oz per site. Believe that.


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## JBonez (Jul 19, 2011)

The point is I could show you anything and call it that. I'm anything but a liar or fibber, ok it wasn't exactly 3.5, e actual weight if you wanna get nitty was closer 3lbs 5oz, you know what, let's just close this thread and call Jbonez full of it, I didnt create the thread to bicker, my point was that if you turn your light 90 degrees left or right you will yield more, and I personally can't justify the grow without you coming to the grow. The fact is no one puts into growing what I do, it's cool when "Heath Robinson" proves it can be done But u question me?

Get in line for advice, I taught half the growers in Atlanta how to"get like me"

I'm done on this thread and rooks that think I can post a pick to prove weight, seriously guys wake up, pics prove nothing. My rep here isn't what I thought.


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## ozzydiodude (Jul 19, 2011)

J it the way your attitude comes across it always reads like you are saying your way is better than everyone elses.

If you taught "half of Atlanta" how to grow ask Dave the turd if he can out grow  the Coal Mountain Boy? He'll know who and what I'm talking about.


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## Mutt (Jul 20, 2011)

> pics prove nothing


no but they speak volumes.



> I didnt create the thread to bicker


but you are the one just saying profoundly rude things.



> Get in line for advice, I taught half the growers in Atlanta how to"get like me"





> I'm not going tit for tat with anyone, I'm certainly no rookie and doubt it would be a good idea.


I perceive that as a threat.



> I'm done on this thread and rooks that think I can post a pick to prove weight, seriously guys wake up,


Picking on what you call "rookies" Sounds very insulting.


> And this is why I am rarely on this site,


if you hate it so much why are you still here?


> No one can challenge this and there is nothing to prove when it's a known fact.


So you are god and we must trust you




> My rep here isn't what I thought


rep is earned by not just your ability to grow. it is earned how you treat others. 
Others have asked not for verification but information including pics. 
You are asking others to do "what you say" or you get insulted and post as if we slighted you. When in fact people are QUESTIONING you NOT insulting you. It is you that tends to get really defensive. Then starts badgering, getting aggressive, and rude when anyone questions your statements.
Vert is no big new method. It's what ever works.


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## Roddy (Jul 20, 2011)

ozzydiodude said:
			
		

> J it the way your attitude comes across it always reads like you are saying your way is better than everyone elses.



:yeahthat:

Don't demand my respect, earn it.....with action, kind words and giving to the community! If you're "all that", people will be happy to learn from you...but don't talk down to me or I'll just see you as a loudmouth knowitall deserving ignored.

I'm an arse, but I try to help....


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## Roddy (Jul 20, 2011)

Mutt said:
			
		

> rep is earned by not just your ability to grow. it is earned how you treat others.
> Others have asked not for verification but information including pics.
> You are asking others to do "what you say" or you get insulted and post as if we slighted you. When in fact people are QUESTIONING you NOT insulting you. It is you that tends to get really defensive. Then starts badgering, getting aggressive, and rude when anyone questions your statements.
> Vert is no big new method. It's what ever works.



Mutt beat me to it...well said, my friend!!


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