# Ongoing necrosis issue



## getnasty (May 31, 2012)

Losing an awful lot of fan leaves due to this same necrosis issue I seem to be facing but can't find a definitive solution too. It does seem to be getting mildly worse, as MOST of the sugar leaves remain unaffected, though there are some up top that are lookin a little sickly; however, I attribute those to heat stress as the bottom-most sugarleaves do not show these symptoms. Anyways, I am losing an awful lot of my fan leaves. They are rusting in the middle still, and then yellowing before they begin decaying. *Question: In losing these fan leaves, I'm losing solar panels, essentially, in the absorption of light for photosynthesis. How bad is this going to impact the growth of these plants? They have 3 weeks or so left, I believe.*

It really does not look like a nitrogen deficiency to me, and the symptoms don't seem to fall in line with overfeeding flowering nutes; ie P/K burn. The bags do not show any signs of having too high of a salinity since they were flushed. I'm convinced my pH meter is borked. I've calibrated it every time I've used it to water, and I've been pH'ing at 6.5. Alas, the issue seems to be running its course regardless of any changes I make, and I can only attribute this continuing nuisance of a situation to having a bad ph pen.

What I DO know, is that this IS something that *I'm* doing wrong, as I'm experiencing these symptoms in both plants right now.

In order from left to right:
--- Symptoms on small plant - John's Seed 
--- Symptoms in stages on Trainwreck x BBNL (Favre)
 - Look at the sugar leaves... the rusting there is the beginning stage
 - Then check out the fan leaves - The brown necrosis is the middle stage of it, and is well on its way to being worthless
 - Then they turn completely brown and shrivel up
--- Favre in all her glory
--- One of the two massive twin tower colas


----------



## ozzydiodude (May 31, 2012)

We really need better pics when you can and it safe for you to do so, Take you plant go into bright room sunlight or flours and take some closer up pics ofd the buds


----------



## Kushluvr (Jun 1, 2012)

have you checked the soil for bugs? what is your base soil?


----------



## getnasty (Jun 1, 2012)

FFOF amended with perlite and Lime. I see no bugs on the soil's surface, nor have I seen any in the grow room at all. Lights come on in a few mins. I'll take pics in a few hours. Moving them into another room with sunlight or brighter light is not an option. She's far, far too big to be moving without snapping any of her gigantic cola's off. Not a risk I'm willing to take. I can, however, turn the light off and snap a few +flash photo's. The buds look fine to me. It's just the leaves that are looking funky.


----------



## pcduck (Jun 1, 2012)

Looks to me like it is praying for Mg.
Better pics would help


----------



## 4u2sm0ke (Jun 1, 2012)

pcduck said:
			
		

> Looks to me like it is praying for Mg.
> Better pics would help


 

thats what I see as well..


:holysheep: look at that cola!!!!!


----------



## Funkfarmer (Jun 1, 2012)

better pics would help and also take some pics of the good leaves or the whole plant.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 1, 2012)

I copied this pic from my Marijuana Garden Saver file. This looks the most like what you have going on. However if your PH is indeed off it will be hard to solve the problem. This pic is a Manganese deficiency. According to the Garden saver, Manganese is best absorbed with a PH between 5.5-6.5 in soil. It also says that it affects younger leaves first with the yellowing necrotic patches but it didn't say if it hits sugar leaves first or fan leaves. It says older, lower leaves may have grey specks and/or spots. It says that as the plant produces newer leaves they will initially be unaffected and look as if the plant is trying to grow away from the problem. Given your PH pen issue, that may be what is happening.

You said that you are having to calibrate your pen every time you go to check PH? If you are having to do that then most likely it is toast and you need a new one. I have found that if you don't keep the pens in proper storage solution that they will not last long before they start messing up.

When you check your PH are you checking runoff or just the water going in? You said you are in FFOF soil, do you feed them as well? What nutes? I know we have talked about this before but I can't remember the details


----------



## Happy Bud (Jun 1, 2012)

It's natural, they're just trying to exposed the bud sites to light. but if it's excessive, increase your nitrogen level.
Just how severely it necrosis-s, depends on how crowded your vegetative matter is, spread the colas apart as much as possible.
Necrisis-ed leafs can be and should be removed as fast as they are spotted. BUT DO NOT REMOVE THE WHOLE LEAF, only the necrosis-ed part.
You can tell this by the browning part of the leaf VEIN. Anything beyond the brown spot in vein is already pronounced dead by the plant and should be removed. See pic--

Next time you see a partially necrosis-ing leaf like this, carefully look at where that necrosised portion of leaf is casting a shadow on. Buds. Almost always.
So it is very important when in flowering to not constantly move either your branches or the light source.
Here are picture of my thc bomb when she went through that stage. 

View attachment DSCF1857r.jpg


----------



## The Hemp Goddess (Jun 1, 2012)

Happy Bud said:
			
		

> It's natural, they're just trying to exposed the bud sites to light. but if it's excessive, increase your nitrogen level.
> Just how severely it necrosis-s, depends on how crowded your vegetative matter is, spread the colas apart as much as possible.
> Necrisis-ed leafs can be and should be removed as fast as they are spotted. BUT DO NOT REMOVE THE WHOLE LEAF, only the necrosis-ed part.
> You can tell this by the browning part of the leaf VEIN. Anything beyond the brown spot in vein is already pronounced dead by the plant and should be removed. See pic--
> ...



I'm sorry, but I really have to disagree with this.  It is not normal, natural or desirable for your plants to do this and it does signal a problem.  Bud sites do not need light.  The photosynthesis takes place in the large fan leaves.  In addition, you do not want to give doses of N late in flowering as this will inhibit flowering.  I do not advocate removing leaves--the plant pulls what it can from the leaves and will drop it naturally when it is of no more use to the plant.  It also does not hurt in the slightest to move your branches or light source.  I reposition my plants virtually every time I take them out to water them.  

Getnasty, there is an issue going on here, but without the pH being on, it is hard to tell exactly what it is and whether it is a deficiency or something being locked-out.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 1, 2012)

No disrespect Happy Bud but I must agree with Hemp Goddess here. I have never heard of a plant of any kind killing its own leaves to expose its flowers to light. In all of my grows I have never had my plants do that at any point. I have had other issues but never one that didn't involve a particular problem that needed to be corrected. 

I think you may be thinking about the "yellowing-off" that occurs at the end of the life cycle of MJ, but that looks more like a nitrogen deficiency as the plant is using up the nutes that it is stealing from the lower leaves to feed the buds in a last ditch attempt to reproduce. What Nasty has is Necrosis higher up on the plant due to some deficiency and/or PH problem.


----------



## getnasty (Jun 2, 2012)

I think we've found the issue. Problem is, due to a speeding ticket, I'm not going to have the funds to get a new pen. And I need some pH Up, too. So, I guess my question here is: If I let this go on until the end of the flowering cycle, which is in approx 2-3 weeks, will the maganese deficiency harm my plants' final yield/potency?


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 2, 2012)

I would have to say yes it is going to harm the yield. I don't know about the potency but I would be willing to bet that it will. You will still get what you have there but as the leaves die back more and more, she will lose the ability to build up the buds. If you can't afford it then you just have to hope for the best. I would still use the pen, just check it against the calibration fluid to see where it is then subtract or add that number that it is off when measuring your water PH. 

I would say to lower the PH a bit as it appears to be too high. If you have been running it to 6.5 try dropping it to 6.2 and give it a week to see what happens. If you get it straight, or at least better then you should see some growth occuring but the necrotic leaves won't heal at this point. If you can get the PH into acceptable levels then she will still finish better, but she won't be pretty. Good luck


----------



## getnasty (Jun 3, 2012)

Thanks Hush. Informative as always! There is no difference in pH between run-off and what goes in at the top.. they stay the same. Someone asked this and I failed to answer that question. But anywho, I believe that if that's the case, my soil should just be in check pH wise, right? Just not the water I'm putting in it? Seems to me if something were wrong with the soil, the pH in the run-off would be greatly different.


You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Hushpuppy again.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 3, 2012)

Well that depends completely on your PH pen. If you have been setting your water and any nute solutions to 6.5 going in but the pen is continually low(for example by .3 then you have actually been setting the soil to 6.8). In this case the soil and water going in and runoff would check the same by the pen(if this is indeed the problem). The only way to determine if this is the problem is to make an adjustment (or get another pen). The bad thing here is that the plants are already deep in flower and have changed their focus to flowering. At this point she will not try to heal herself because of the focus on budding. If you get the problem corrected, you most likely will not be able to tell unless you see a marked change in the bud growth. I personally would lower the PH a bit as I believe you are using chemical nutes rather than relying on microbes. It seems from everything I've read that chemical nutes are absorbed better at lower PH regardless of medium. I could be wrong but that is my thinking on the situation. Either way, I hope they finish well enough for you to get some decent smoke out of it as you are already getting the education from it.


----------



## getnasty (Jun 3, 2012)

I dontr think we'll have a problem finishing her up.  Only issue now is, I can't start a new cycle again until I get moved, which could take a couple months. D: thanks for the mojo, Hush.


----------



## getnasty (Jun 5, 2012)

Here are the pics of Favre, the Trainwreck x (Blueberry x Northern Lights)


----------



## getnasty (Jun 5, 2012)

And the pics of John's Seed, my bagseed. Very dense nugs. Theyre hard as rocks.  So far, no sign of hermie.


----------



## nvthis (Jun 5, 2012)

With 2-3 weeks left what ever the problem is, it's too late to fix it now anyway. The best you can hope for is to keep it from getting worse, and that would mean _adding_ to your feeding regiment when you should be thinking the opposite while nearing your flush. Just ride it out and harvest as usual. That Favre is a swingindick bro. Nice work...


----------



## getnasty (Jun 5, 2012)

Thanks nv! I'll certainly get to adding on the feeding schedule, then.


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 5, 2012)

Shoot you don't have to worry too much about not finishing well with those girls. They look great except for the necrosis on the fan leaves. I think you will get  a very nice haul outa these. Start keeping a close eye on the trichs if you aren't already as they may finish earlier than you are projecting


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 5, 2012)

What nutes are you using to feed and how often do you feed them?


----------



## getnasty (Jun 5, 2012)

I was a bit confused on the nutes and didnt really stick to much of a schedule. Kept it simple, for me. I'm using the fox farm line, but I'm probably going to switch to GH or Advanced after this grow. In veg I gave them Grow Big per the recommended heavy feeding for 3 weeks and then resumed with a general feeding. Right now, I'm giving them Tiger Bloom, Big Bloom, and ChaChing. A week ago, I stopped giving them Open Sesame and gave them the ChaChing instead.

However, I noticed that the ChaChing is 9-50-10, the Big Bloom is .01-.3 -.7, and the Tiger Bloom is 2-8-4. So I stopped giving them the Big Bloom altogether. Just been giving them Tiger Bloom and half a tsp of ChaChing.

I'll be getting a loop on Thursday this week, so I'll be able to start checking by the end of the week! I'm thinking they'll be done within the next 10 days, with good karma. =]]


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 6, 2012)

Yeah I would stay with that regamin. I don't know the FoxFarm nutes well but from what I've read, you are doing the right thing.


----------



## getnasty (Jun 9, 2012)

Alright bud. I gave them their typical feeding today. I got that loop but it was only 10x. Borrowed the neighbor's magnifying glass, and put the loop over that but can still only barely see the trich heads. For the most part, they look to be cloudy/clear.


----------



## Roddy (Jun 9, 2012)

Look for a scope with 30/60/100x, you really only need the 30x, but it's cool to have the option lol They're cheap enough and available online!


----------



## nvthis (Jun 9, 2012)

nvthis said:
			
		

> With 2-3 weeks left what ever the problem is, it's too late to fix it now anyway. The best you can hope for is to keep it from getting worse, and that would mean _adding_ to your feeding regiment when you should be thinking the opposite while nearing your flush. Just ride it out and harvest as usual.


 



			
				getnasty said:
			
		

> Thanks nv! I'll certainly get to adding on the feeding schedule, then.


 
Sorry Nasty, I was actually hinting towards the _other_ direction, lol.. This close to the end, you should be thinking flush and not so much adding


----------



## getnasty (Jun 9, 2012)

OH, I misread and never corrected the post. Haha. I'd just continued with the normal feeding schedule, anyways. This week was schedule to be the last feeding, anyways, so much apprecation to you Dan for bringing it up; all taken care of though, my friend! Green mojo to you fellas for watching this through to the end for me! It was definitely needed assistance! I've learned so much from this grow, and fully expect further improvements come the beginning of August when I get into motion for my Christmas Harvest grow. Could be a bit later, as I believe we're sowing some auto's to begin with. Just not too sure yet! I gotta get moved first, anyways, so maybe I'm getting ahead of myself. Lol


----------



## Hushpuppy (Jun 9, 2012)

Good luck with your move brother. I hope it all goes smoothly for you


----------



## ozzydiodude (Jun 9, 2012)

:yeahthat: hope the move goes smooth and you find plenty of friends to do the heavy moving


----------



## getnasty (Jun 10, 2012)

Thanks fellas! Keep your eyes peeled in the Grow Journal and smoke report forums for the reports! I had initially started a grow journal but deleted it after discovering the strain I was initially told it was, was not the actual strain. Took me a few weeks to get it from the guy who knows the guy who grew it out in the first place, lol. But I will go through and alter all of the pictures and strip them of meta tags so I can reupload the entire journey in one massive photodump from beginning to end! That's jhow much I love MP  I don't ever do that much work in photoshop unless im getting paid for it!


----------

