# Automated feed help plz



## oldbudnew (Jul 23, 2015)

Hi all. 
Long story short I a busy guy so therefore I've been considering bottom feeding. I grow in coco 11 litre pots. I would like to, well need to due to going away for a week during this crop, go automated. 

My idea is simple. Each plant (20) has it's own drip tray and will be bottom fed. I'm thinking a large res with a pump in, a 13mm (1/2 inch) feed pipe coming off it capped with the 20 individual feed lines tee'd off it. Have pump set on a timer to deliver x amounts of feed in x amount of time. Obviousely I would need to time how long it took to deliver say one or two litres to each tray and set the pump to that time. 

1: would this pump do the job?
Specification:
-Flow Rate Max : 1000L/H;(260 GPH)
-Power: 8.5W
-Head Hmax: 1.3m
-Outlet Connectors Length: 20mm, 28mm
-Outlet Connectors Diameter: 12mm,12mm
-Dimension: 80mm*65mm*50mm

2: would I encounter any differing flow rates from the outlets nearest and furthest? 

3: any issues I should expect? 

I would use an inline filter, a main stop valve at the start of the feed line and an individual manual stop valve on each feed tail to the individual pots. 

Am I on the right track? If not steer me. 

Thanks  

NB


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## zem (Jul 23, 2015)

pump sounds too small for 20 lines. most coco growers feed with injector drippers that deliver the ferts below the surface


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## oldbudnew (Jul 23, 2015)

Thanks  any recomendation on pump size? Not feeling dripper systems I don't think tho

NB


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 24, 2015)

You will absolutely have differeing rates of flow to the different pots.  To make it equal, you will have to balance the lines--all lines the same length, with the same samount of turns in them.

I am a plumber and would worry about this system--there are simply so many things that can go wrong, which would either result in a flood or the plants being harmed.  This IS a hobby that takes a great deal of time, but IMO, automating it so that you do not have to tend to your garden will probably not end well.  First, all plants do not uptake nutrients and water at the same rate.  I anticipate that some of the drip trays will still contain water when you get ready to feed again, which would result in a flood.  Or overwatering.  The water left in the drip trays could get icky.

Some kind of recirculating hydro system with a main res would probably be a better choice for someone who did not want to take care of their plants.


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## zem (Jul 24, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> You will absolutely have differeing rates of flow to the different pots.  To make it equal, you will have to balance the lines--all lines the same length, with the same samount of turns in them.
> 
> I am a plumber and would worry about this system--there are simply so many things that can go wrong, which would either result in a flood or the plants being harmed.  This IS a hobby that takes a great deal of time, but IMO, automating it so that you do not have to tend to your garden will probably not end well.  First, all plants do not uptake nutrients and water at the same rate.  I anticipate that some of the drip trays will still contain water when you get ready to feed again, which would result in a flood.  Or overwatering.  The water left in the drip trays could get icky.
> 
> Some kind of recirculating hydro system with a main res would probably be a better choice for someone who did not want to take care of their plants.



THG how do those large coco farms do with long driplines? i have seen videos they would be injecting lines not taking that much care and they achieve uniform distribution. It could be that they use a mixture of perlite with coco to make it airy enough to prevent clogging even if the watering is not uniform.
Anyway, I have always had my growroom automated using flood and drain in growrocks where there is no way to overwater.


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## oldbudnew (Jul 24, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> You will absolutely have differeing rates of flow to the different pots.  To make it equal, you will have to balance the lines--all lines the same length, with the same samount of turns in them.
> 
> I am a plumber and would worry about this system--there are simply so many things that can go wrong, which would either result in a flood or the plants being harmed.  This IS a hobby that takes a great deal of time, but IMO, automating it so that you do not have to tend to your garden will probably not end well.  First, all plants do not uptake nutrients and water at the same rate.  I anticipate that some of the drip trays will still contain water when you get ready to feed again, which would result in a flood.  Or overwatering.  The water left in the drip trays could get icky.
> 
> Some kind of recirculating hydro system with a main res would probably be a better choice for someone who did not want to take care of their plants.


Hey now lol. The main reason for needing some kind of automation is to cover me when I go away for a week at the end of October. The rest of the time I could get by. 
A recirculating system is out I the question. 

Regarding getting all the lines of equal length that's something I could overcome surely. As for the amounts the plants need I would be well in tune with that by then. If they were up taking water at different rates how would I go about adjusting the flows to the individual pots? If I had a stop valve on each pots individual line could I partially restrict flow using the stop valves dial down the flow to certain pots? 

NB


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## zem (Jul 24, 2015)

the dripper itself can be adjusted by screwing or unscrewing it but the flow rate decreases as they clog with time and need to be cleaned periodically


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## oldbudnew (Jul 24, 2015)

Drippers again! Grrrrr. Lol. Ok how's about this then...... 
I know nothing about drippers. Could they be adjusted open enough that I could fix them to the drip trays and use them to poor the water into the drip tray? That way I could adjust the flow using the drippers. 

Thanks
NB


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## zem (Jul 24, 2015)

well, drippers are of many different types, normally can be adjusted. however i dont understand what you mean by drip tray? you need to be able to provide for each plant an even amount of liquid. i would never try to adjust the flow for every plant differently. the only way i can see it done using drippers, is to mix a lot of perlite with the coco to make it airy enough that it cannot be overwatered, that way you will just make all the driplines with an even flow or you could even consider flood and drain, which is my preferred way and i use only growrock


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## oldbudnew (Jul 24, 2015)

Drip tray, as in a saucer. So each pot had its own saucer. Bottom feeding coco works very well so the idea was to have a pump on a timer with feed lines to each individual saucer. The pump would switch on long enough to deliver a set amount of feed directly into the saucers that the plants could then suck up from there. In my experience any water left in the saucer that the plant did not suck up would evaporate by the time the next feed was due anyway. Also its nearly impossible to overwater coco so long as feed intervals arnt too close together. Im already bottom feeding my plants and its super simple. One feed once a day at the same time each day and all the pots are at the same weight or same dryness consistantly.

NB


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## zem (Jul 25, 2015)

i don't know what's about that, but i hear it all the time, that you cannot overwater coco, i guess it is because some coco contains a lot of coco chips that make it more airy than other types of coco like the one that i have, which i felt like it held a lot of water for my purposes, but my trials were not very elaborate until i concluded that growrocks is preferred for me. anyway, reused coco chips will break down into fine coco so i guess that regularly adding fresh coco to the old helps too. since a recirculating system is out of the question, then just make good drains and water it as needed and let the runoff drain away instead of laying in the saucer. it is not advisable that you fill the saucer every feed, because when it is automated, it will probably remain filled and this might damage the roots. all you need is driplines and drains, that is how coco growers do it


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## The Hemp Goddess (Jul 25, 2015)

I do not like drippers.  I use them outside for hanging pots as they are such a PITA to water, but all in all, I find them very undependable.  

LOL--I have overwatered coco--I think that is part of my problem with it is that it holds so much water.

Large operations most likely have some kind of regulators on their lines if they are different lengths.  You can try it out for yourself, but the first lines and the shortest lines are going to distribute more water.

There is also the problem of plants using differing amounts of water.  My Satori can drink up about twice the nutrient solution of some of my other strains.  It really is tough to automate a system after the fact.


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## zem (Jul 25, 2015)

THG it is very simple to automate a flood and drain grow, since you have no risk of overwatering


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## oldbudnew (Jul 25, 2015)

Hi, lines of different lengths is very easy to overcome. Keep em the same length lol. T the 13mm main line into two equal length lines down each side of the room each leading to an 8 way manifold. I'm dropping my plant numbers to 16. Then make each 4mm line for each pot the same lengths as each other. After that flow could be changed to each plant/strain using adjustable drippers. Tedious to fine tune that tho. But doable.

On the subject of coco I use, and only ever have used, canna coco pro and I very loosely fill my pots, I don't press it down at all. Never caused me any issues at all I.e over watering and have read plenty threads elsewhere stating the same. Maybe it's dependant on the type of coco used? Don't know. 

Does sound like drippers are going to be my best shot at pulling this off. Not worried (much) about clogging as it's only really needed to perform 100% for that one week. It would be nice to use the system full time but at least I'd usually be around to overcome any potential issues like that. 

I guess a safety barrier for this would make sure my plants are sat on top of huge trays to catch any possible over watering issues and raise the pots off the trays surface so the pots arnt sat in any water that could potentially end up in the trays. 

NB


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## zem (Jul 25, 2015)

look up videos about greenhouses who grow hydroponic tomatoes cukes and peppers, i have seen countless times the speakers touring the farm removing injector drippers to show the water flow. it would give you a good idea how it is done and i really doubt that they use any fine tuning to those huge farms


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## oldbudnew (Jul 25, 2015)

Well it's looking like I'll have to bite the bullet and construct a run to waste set up.  21mm white drainage pipe and it's accessories (the common stuff that solvent welds together and is easy to buy almost everywhere and cheap) should do nicely. 

I'm thinking (attic grow so can't purchase huge trays due to loft hatch width issue) have 8 grow bag trays (100x50 cm), 4 each side of room with two plants in each. Raise trays off floor and have them raised more at one side so water runs to that side of tray. Using tank outlets (from the 21mm range mentioned) installed after drilling hole in said end of grow bag tray. 
It would then just be a case of linking tray to tray down each side and then bring both drains together before exiting the pipe at a slight angle accross the attic and out of the vented sofit under the guttering. I could them simply fit the pipe into the down pipe of my guttering. The most expensive part would be buying 7 more grow bag trays. Bloody rip off for what they are. The only thing I may have to do is heat the grow bag tray with a hot air gun to push down and create a dip where I intend to drill in and fit the tank outlet. Just because grow bag trays arnt the deepest things and the tank outlets are a bit chunky.

NB


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## zem (Jul 26, 2015)

make sure that the pvc pipes that you get are food safe. many are intended only for drains and contain lead, BPA, and many harmful chemicals that are not safe to use with potable water, food, or growing.


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## oldbudnew (Jul 26, 2015)

Sure for the feed lines etc I'd use the food grade stuff from a hydro store online. Can't see it being an issue with the waste pipes. 

NB


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## oldbudnew (Jul 26, 2015)

On the subject of lead. I don't think any of the plastic pipes we use here in uk have anything to do with lead


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## zem (Jul 26, 2015)

oh i didn't notice that it was only a waste pipe that you want to use, i thought that you would grow in them. 
On the lead topic, it is put in sewage drain pipes, but never in water lines, i know that at least some do contain lead


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## vostok (Jul 26, 2015)

There a lot to be said for that personal touch of getting out their into the field, and being at one with the crops, for both plant and bodies sake.....but not here?


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## Surfer Joe (Jul 30, 2015)

oldbudnew said:


> Hey now lol. The main reason for needing some kind of automation is to cover me when I go away for a week at the end of October. The rest of the time I could get by.



I had a similar situation and I got an aquarium pump that I put in a large bucket of nutes and ran a six-line splitter hose, one to each pot and put the pump on a timer.
I set it to pump for a few minutes every day.
This gave the pots some water to survive on for the 3 or 4 days that I was away but wasn't in danger of flooding the plants.
The only real danger was a power loss that would stop the pump from working and the plants would not get enough water. Even if the electric went off for a time, when it came back on, the timer and pump would carry on working on a different schedule but still for only a few minutes a day.
This setup worked fine for being away for a few days.
The hoses did not all deliver the same amount of water so I had to test it out and identify the lines that delivered more and less water and then I allocated the lines to the plants that I knew liked more or less water. The difference is small anyway if you only have the water pumping for a few minutes at a time.
My setup delivered about 1 liter of water in about 5 minutes, so I adjusted the timer to give the plants about 1 liter of water a day. You could set up any sort of schedule you want, even a few shorter times more than once a day, or whatever.
As an emergency measure, it worked great, but you wouldn't want to use it regularly.


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## cbdoil (Jul 31, 2015)

I've used a Blumat system before for 48 plants in tight quarters just to make it easier to water/feed them and I loved the simplicity. They water from the top rather than the bottom but that shouldn't be a problem. I used 2-5 gallon pails connected to a "Y" branch and continues into the grow room. They are drippers but you can use an additive to control any clogging and the additive isn't very expensive and goes a long ways...it doesn't take much at all. All I had to do was fill the 5 gal pails and you could add more of them to extend the time between fillings. Google Blumat and you should get results.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 1, 2015)

You don't really want to keep the plants wet all the time, so I would worry about a watering system that watered all the time.  The plant does need to go through wet and dry cycles.  Dripping water all the time could well drown the roots.  While the Blumat system looks cool, I don't think it would be good for cannabis.  From part of their literature:  "... The Tropf Blumat system is always suitable when plant groupings require *consistent moisture*".  As cannabis doe not require consistent moisture, I would worry about them.  Also I see that there is no pump or timers--it is meant to be connected to a pressurized system.  This could also be disaster indoors.  If connecting to a bucket, it would have to be raised high enough to give you enough pressure for the drippers to operate correctly.

Do you seriously have no one that can water your plants while you are gone?


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## cbdoil (Aug 2, 2015)

No, it doesn't need a pressurized system, gravity feed is all it needs indoors. The amount of dampness of the soil can be adjusted as the cap has a thumbscrew where the feed tube goes through and when the pot reaches that desired dampness it shuts off. It's worked for me for several years now. Besides, if plants need a wet/dry cycle Hydro systems wouldn't work would they?

 How it works: The cap is placed on the cone while submerged in water. When placed in the soil, the water seeps out the thru cone creating a vacuum that pulls down a diaphragm in the cap. There is a pin attached to the diaphragm that pulls down away from the feed tube and allows the water/feed to flow. Depending how much and fast the soil dries out the feeding could just be a continuous, slow drip or consistent flow until the soil is back to it's selected dampness as water in the soil goes back in the cone and reduces the vacuum, allowing the diaphragm to relax and pin pinches off the feed tube. It's a very clever system.


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## The Hemp Goddess (Aug 3, 2015)

Hydro and soil are entirely different--you simply cannot compare the 2 in the manner you have.  With hydro, the plants roots are exposed to highly oxygenated nutrient solutions and the entire root system in not 100% submerged 100% of the time.  With soil, the drying out of the medium pulls needed oxygen into the root system of the plants.  If the plant is kept constantly wet, the roots do not get O2 and will drown.


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## oldbudnew (Aug 5, 2015)

Surfer Joe said:


> I had a similar situation and I got an aquarium pump that I put in a large bucket of nutes and ran a six-line splitter hose, one to each pot and put the pump on a timer.
> 
> I set it to pump for a few minutes every day.
> 
> ...




Thanks, yeah this is basically what I will be doing except I'm adding waste pipes so I can give them a nice shot of water once a day so they don't have to just survive but can thrive. A once a day feeding will also allow them a proper wet/dry cycle too. 

I'll post up exactly how I do it wen I get it set up. Thanks for the input  

NB


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## oldbudnew (Aug 5, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Do you seriously have no one that can water your plants while you are gone?




No. I will not ask the wife to be involved and she is the only one who knows. Well my brother knows but I won't let him be involved either. I'm not taking anyone down with me if it comes to the worst. 

Nobody other than that knows or will ever know. 

NB


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## zem (Aug 5, 2015)

if you can make the medium airy enough, there would be no risk of overwatering. i am not a believer in wet/dry cycle, but thats just me, i did flood and drain forever and i flood every 2 hours or 3, or 4 with very little difference. you need to not drown them somehow when they are automated


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## oldbudnew (Aug 5, 2015)

That's fair enough and I can believe it. I pot up very loosely, always break up any clumps there may be when getting the coco from the bag and only use canna coco pro which is in my opinion the best you can buy so I would think my medium to be airy. That said however I have always done a wet and dry cycle which is usually once a day for the most part so I see no reason to change that just because I'll be going automated. The pump will just be taking my place as it were. 

NB


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## zem (Aug 5, 2015)

if weed needs wet and dry cycle, then i guess that DWC will not perform as well or better than other systems with wet/dry cycles, when we know that dwc can excel in producing. weed likes moist medium with plenty of air in it. the level of water saturation which a plant can take differs greatly between plants in the plant kingdom, weed ime, is the plant that loves airy roots the most of the plants that i grew, even more than tomato which also loves that. from the coco that i used, it would be hard to automate without drowning roots, but some coco is different and comes in chunks and makes a more airy medium. if your coco looks like soil, and not like small chunks and blocks, then i would not automate that without adding a lot of perlite and/or growrocks to it.


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## cbdoil (Aug 23, 2015)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> You don't really want to keep the plants wet all the time, so I would worry about a watering system that watered all the time.  The plant does need to go through wet and dry cycles.  Dripping water all the time could well drown the roots.  While the Blumat system looks cool, I don't think it would be good for cannabis.  From part of their literature:  "... The Tropf Blumat system is always suitable when plant groupings require *consistent moisture*".  As cannabis doe not require consistent moisture, I would worry about them.  Also I see that there is no pump or timers--it is meant to be connected to a pressurized system.  This could also be disaster indoors.  If connecting to a bucket, it would have to be raised high enough to give you enough pressure for the drippers to operate correctly.
> 
> Do you seriously have no one that can water your plants while you are gone?



 You know, you always seem to contradict me for some reason.:argue: I've used them for a couple of years and haven't had a problem with them. They DON"T water all the time and my soil isn't soggy, that's where you'll have a problem with root rot or oxygen levels. As I've said, they are adjustable. You can have your plants as dry or wet as you wish. It's excellent for plants that require lots of water because you can adjust it so the soil is very damp/wet while you're away for a lengthy time. You can adjust it so that the soil contains just enough moisture so that the plants thrive very well, no matter what plants you have. 

 This place sucks. I was invited and told the peeps are very friendly here but even the most experienced with a long history here are prone to be assholes.

I have a lot to offer but if I have to argue my case, I'm not interested. I see a lot of stupid things said in many posts here and this place looks to be too, much work if I'm going to be contradicted, even when I've mentioned success over the course of a couple of years.

 Good luck all!


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## zem (Aug 24, 2015)

cbdoil said:


> You know, you always seem to contradict me for some reason.:argue: I've used them for a couple of years and haven't had a problem with them. They DON"T water all the time and my soil isn't soggy, that's where you'll have a problem with root rot or oxygen levels. As I've said, they are adjustable. You can have your plants as dry or wet as you wish. It's excellent for plants that require lots of water because you can adjust it so the soil is very damp/wet while you're away for a lengthy time. You can adjust it so that the soil contains just enough moisture so that the plants thrive very well, no matter what plants you have.
> 
> This place sucks. I was invited and told the peeps are very friendly here but even the most experienced with a long history here are prone to be assholes.
> 
> ...


i dont see where anyone was rude to you, just a differing opinion.. i guess you overreacted that is not the best way to start out here. rather show us what your gear does and be positive, everyone loves to see dank, so show us your dank


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## Hushpuppy (Aug 28, 2015)

Coco is really not the issue with drowning the roots. I knew a guy that grew in coco/hydro and he had his water running continuously to a top feed system. His plants did quite well in this setup. the key is to constantly aerate the water to keep the maximum amount of oxygen in it. I also grow in coco/hydro and I use a top feed system that recirculates. I constantly aerate my water supply. I don't run my water constantly. mine cycles so that they get watered twice in 24hrs during veg and 4x in 24hrs during flower. Coco drains very well and when pearlite is use to keep it from compacting, it aerates itself when the water is allowed to drain away.

It will take a little trial and error to set up the automated system for the OP here but I don't think it will be nearly as problematic as it seems or is feared. I personally would set it up to top feed as I have found for me that coco works best when the water goes in the top and drains through to thoroughly wet the coco and then the left over is able to drain away. You can dial it in so that you get proper watering with little waste. And if you aerate your source water continuously, you will eliminate the possibility of drowning. I think you will find that once you have it dialed in, that you will keep it in use even when you are back and able to hand water.

The only real issue would be if you have several different plant strains that have vastly different water needs. If their water needs are at least similar enough, they will do fine for a week on that system. I still keep a check on my system every few days even though I have it dialed in, just to prevent any issues from developing. Plus with a recirculating system I have to adjust the pH of my solution every so often until the nutrients are exhausted and its time to replace the reservoir solution with fresh.


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## Hushpuppy (Aug 28, 2015)

To individuals who have felt insulted or spoken rudely too, I would ask you to remember that on a forum it is very easy to appear to be "short", "rude", or other adjectives of insult. The reason is that some people are relatively blunt, if for no other reason than not wanting to type such wordy responses as I am guilty of doing. But when writing(or typing) responses in a forum, it is easy to misunderstand a person's approach because this medium doesn't allow for the body and facial expressions that give inflection to what is said. Aside from the emogees that we use here, it is hard to give the proper level of emotional injection that supplies the courteous mannerisms of social conversations. 

You will also find that everyone here is very passionate about growing and each person with a significant amount of experience has developed their own methods that work for them. I ask that you try to take these types of insult inducing responses with a grain of salt as I am quite certain that no insult is meant for the most part.


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## 000StankDank000 (Sep 10, 2015)

cbdoil said:


> You know, you always seem to contradict me for some reason.:argue: I've used them for a couple of years and haven't had a problem with them. They DON"T water all the time and my soil isn't soggy, that's where you'll have a problem with root rot or oxygen levels. As I've said, they are adjustable. You can have your plants as dry or wet as you wish. It's excellent for plants that require lots of water because you can adjust it so the soil is very damp/wet while you're away for a lengthy time. You can adjust it so that the soil contains just enough moisture so that the plants thrive very well, no matter what plants you have.
> 
> This place sucks. I was invited and told the peeps are very friendly here but even the most experienced with a long history here are prone to be assholes.
> 
> ...




Some things never change BWHAHAHA


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## Dr. Green Fang (Sep 11, 2015)

I stopped reading when I kept reading drippers halfway down the page, and you keep saying no drippers, sheesh. This guy wants a setup like I have. :aok: 

Go into my link, "The Dr's Office" and read the whole thing.  I run Coco Chips, and 32 sites from a 55 gal drum. The drum will fill the 7gal control bucket, and then fill the lines and they feed from the bottom. When the system is done, the control bucket is continuously pumped out to the main 55 gal res. I can walk away for well over 1 week with this system, as I also added a 35 gal fresh water ATO (automatic top off) system to the 55 gal res as well. 








https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/GFO7KT

And expansion kits

https://www.hydrofarm.com/p/GFOE2


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## 000StankDank000 (Sep 12, 2015)

The DR gets it lol .


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