# Help request. Unhealthy first ever grow



## tbomun (Jan 31, 2010)

could use some advice. not really sure whats going on. im a newbie. first grow ever.  anyway heres the info.

strain: auto ak 47 from seed
air temp : 78-80(on) , 71-73(off)
res temp : 70-79. use couple ice bottles to help control
pH: 5.48
ppm: 630
age: 30 days old (born jan. 2nd)
rh: 30-60%
light: 400w hps sitting 23" above this little girl. couple 35w cfl up the sides. 20/4 cycle.

i changed the res friday afternoon. and this is exactly what nutes and measurements i added. i have 14 gallon res, running about 10 gallons. i used this calculator from GH hXXp://www.generalhydroponics.com/calculator/index.html  but i only used nutes for 5 gallons, not all 10. i didnt wanna do full nutes for fear of nute burn.  although maybe the damage was done from previous res, it was at 1200.
25ml - Floranova Grow
50ml - Florablend 
5ml -  Floralicious Plus
30ml - Hygrozyme


random info that im not sure will help.  i use abt 10 gallons in a 14gallon bin. wrapped in refletix for temp control. anyway is pH suppose to climb from 5.48 to 5.67 in 8hrs? pH'ed the res b4 bed at 3am, checked again at 11am and it had climbed up. if normal then okies.  another thing is the ppm, is it supposed to climb too? samething at 3am it was 600, at 11am it rose to 650. why? i didnt add anything.

problem is, she seems very very runty.  her leaves are growing all sorts of crazy. and has what seems like nute burn.  browning / yellowing / drooping leaves. some burnt edges.  im assuming im gonna have to lower ppm but i thought 630ish was ok for this long in.  the main thing is that she is so tiny. standing about 4" from the rooter plug.

all pictures are current as of this morning.


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## pcduck (Jan 31, 2010)

You have many problems

Rez temp is to high need 65-68 range.

pH is to low, need 5.8

ppm's are way to high seedlings do not need any nutes for the first 3-4 weeks and after that only 1/4 strength to start.

light is to high, lower light til you feel heat on the back of your hand then set it there.

Most nutes have buffers in them in order that the pH will raise or lower to the correct pH.


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## tbomun (Jan 31, 2010)

thanks pcduck!  

ive already lowed the ppm to 395 to 400. should i reduce it more still?  the rez temp was 67 degrees just now. i will buy few more water bottles to freeze.

doh on the pH. fixing it now! up to 5.8!

the light unfortunately im boned. its fixed to its position. i cant move it. thats why when this grow is done im gutting the grow box and making it more versitle. ill try to prop the res up on some milk crates to lift it. but its kinda heavy. ill have to get my cousin to pitch in a hand. (propped up res on a couple boxes. now plant top is 13" away from hps)

again thanks so much.  hope she perks up.


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## pcduck (Jan 31, 2010)

can you raise the plants any?


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## tbomun (Jan 31, 2010)

yep i did. i found two 3 gallon bins. about 10" tall and propped them under the res. top of plant is now about 13" from the HPS light.


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

ok so things have gotten worse!  ive reduced the ppm to 90.  the pH i try to keep at 5.8.  but it climbs up to 6.3-6.5 within a couple hours. not sure why. the ppm also slowly climb up.  but not as fast as pH. not sure why its getting worse.

ive done everything recommended here.  res water is colder now. doesnt pass 69. air temp last few days hasnt climbed over 73.

any advice please!?!  should i continue to work on this plant or yank it an start from scratch?  is she salvageable?


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## legalize_freedom (Feb 1, 2010)

I'm not a hydro guy, but what are you using to adjust your pH that it would drift that much?....you might try PM'ing PC duck, or Mindzeye...they know their stuff when it comes to this...I won't be much help with hydro...good luck to you!


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

using GH pH down (yellow/orange liquid) and pH up (blue liquid)


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## MindzEye (Feb 1, 2010)

When you mix your nutes can you give me a description about how you mix your nutes? Do you PH adjust right after mixing? This plant has some serious damage right now Im not sure if its going to pull through, i have seen them do it though


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

what i have done. is i fill the res tub with the RO water. add the nutes like the nova grow mix the water a little, add hygrozyme mix water up, add florablend mix water, add floralicious plus mix water. then pH it to 5.8

return the box an add the airstones and plant.


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## MindzEye (Feb 1, 2010)

This looks like PH issue to me and some nute burn but it sounds like you solved that issue, I think your making the same mistake I made when I first started DWC, Heres how I mix my nutes everyone does it a little different but the idea is slow adjustments...

I use tap water so I put my water in containers and let it sit overnight, The next day I mix my nutes then add them to res, I dont even bother checking PH at this point because I want to let the buffers in the nutes activate.. The next day I check the PH and make slow adjustments, If I need to adjust Ill add 1/2 a teaspoon of adjuster and let it sit for 4 hours then add more and repeat until your in the range you want.. I get the nutes to 5.8 and let it raise to 6.2 then correct it...


Just one more thing here.. Do you spray the plants with anything?


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

lol if i used my tap water the plant would explode.  my tap runs 800+ppm  LOL.  so ill follow same instructions just with ro water.  as far as spraying, nope i dont. should i be?  if so what do i spray em with?

im thinking of just yanking her out, chalking it up as lesson learned and start again.  but i need to redo the grow room.  im gutting the file cabinet im in and getting a grow tent thats much more versitile.  what you think?  yank it or try and revive it next 2 - 3 weeks?  if by then still looking ugly yank it?


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## MindzEye (Feb 1, 2010)

With GH up and down PH I have found this, when adjusting your PH up the adjuster takes around 4 hours to reach its PH level, If you are adjusting right away to 5.8 PH and it raises 2 hours later then your fighting the PH up adjuster.. When you add some PH up it will have an initial jump up then it will continue to raise for 4 hours.. With PH down its different, with down you can add it and wait 1 hour then adjust again its a lot faster acting..

I was just making sure you wernt spraying with lights on, the water magnifies the light and burns the plant.. If I have plants that are in shock I will do a foliar feed of some vitamin B-1 it helps with shock, just one treatment is all you need.. But you can do it without also..


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

ah ok. didnt know that about the pH. i guess im gonna try an nurse it back.  what do you recommend i do?  just straight up ph water for couple weeks? no nutes. what about hygrozyme for the res incase i have some root rot?


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## MindzEye (Feb 1, 2010)

I think your plant want nutes and thats why you see the damage, its nutrient deficiency. When the PH goes out of range the plant cant absorb certain nutrients.

I think you should go in and mix fresh nutes around 400 ppm, then tomorrow you can start PH adjusting.. Maybe even start out with just 1/4 tsp at a time until you get the hang of how much it will change the water PH.. After a while of doing this you will get a system down and you can even cheat a little..

For example, I know when I mix my nutes at full strength I will end up having to use at least 3/4 tsp of PH up.. So right after I mix my nutes I will add 1/2 tsp of PH up, then let it sit for 24 hours before fine tuning the adjustment...


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

oh i thought it was nute burn.  ok so this is the plan.

1. pour ro water into res. let sit 24hrs.
2. mix nutes into res. let sit 24hrs
3. pH the res. let sit for several hours.
4. check pH, if in good range, set in plant an put in grow room


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## MindzEye (Feb 1, 2010)

With RO water you dont need to let it sit for 24hrs first.. I let my tap water sit because of chlorine...


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

k start at step 2.  

just so u know my current state. maybe i dont need to change and let this res run for a week?  at lunch today i changed out the water and its running around 100ppm. or just dump it and start fresh?


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## MindzEye (Feb 1, 2010)

If your running plain water phed water thats fine, but it will need nutes soon..


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

its around 100ish ppm and slowly climbing on its own.


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## MindzEye (Feb 1, 2010)

Its probably from residual nutrients in your roots and hydroton... I wouldnt leave plain water in there for more than a few days, if your PH isnt stable and jumping all over then change out the res now..... Also remember the plant isnt going to repair the damaged growth, it will grow new healthy leaves and the damaged leaves will die off..


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## tbomun (Feb 1, 2010)

ok. im gonna work on the new res with nutes tomorrow. thanks for the help. if i dont see new healthy growth. instead of new unhealthy growth, in 2-3 wks im gonna yank her an redo the grow space and start from scratch.


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## scatking (Feb 2, 2010)

Not to confuse the subject, but if you have nute lock out these best cure is to flush the plant with flora-kleen to allow uptake to resume.  I think the frequent adjustment of your nute levels may be a problem as well.  

I never use ph up (liquid).  If I go a little overboard with ph down, I simply add regular water to bring the level back up. a range of 5.5 - 5.9 has been very successful for me, and since I change the rez once a week, I rarely ever adjust ph once the mix is where I want it.

You may want to try liquid nutes, like GH 3-part and just stay on the feeding schedule religiously.  With the liquid, it is far easier to accurately measure the dosage.  I have gotten to the point where I don't even need to check ppm once I know the baseline of my water.  Remember that if the schedule calls for 500 ppm and your water is 100 ppm, the right number for that weeks dosage is 600.  GH charts just assume all water is neutral with respect to ppm.  Some folks swear by the ppm meter and do fine too, but I have always had great results just sticking with the quantities the chart calls for.  Your ppm probably rises because the powdered nutes are incompletely mixed at the outset and aren't becoming fully dissolved until the airstone kicks in to finish the job.

Lastly, it might be better to let your mix alone once you do a res change.  Constant adjustment may be impacting your plant.  It is really hard to be patient, but unless your ph really spikes, just go with the flow.  Think about how you might feel if someone kept manipulating your environment daily.  Plants are people too!!!


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## surreptitious (Feb 2, 2010)

scatking said:
			
		

> You may want to try liquid nutes, like GH 3-part and just stay on the feeding schedule religiously.  With the liquid, it is far easier to accurately measure the dosage.  I have gotten to the point where I don't even need to check ppm once I know the baseline of my water.  Remember that if the schedule calls for 500 ppm and your water is 100 ppm, the right number for that weeks dosage is 600.  GH charts just assume all water is neutral with respect to ppm.  Some folks swear by the ppm meter and do fine too, but I have always had great results just sticking with the quantities the chart calls for.  Your ppm probably rises because the powdered nutes are incompletely mixed at the outset and aren't becoming fully dissolved until the airstone kicks in to finish the job.
> 
> Lastly, it might be better to let your mix alone once you do a res change.  Constant adjustment may be impacting your plant.  It is really hard to be patient, but unless your ph really spikes, just go with the flow.  Think about how you might feel if someone kept manipulating your environment daily.  Plants are people too!!!



he's using flora nova grow...that's a liquid nute from GH.  he's using RO water, his PPM starting off should be close to zero


tbomun:  have you tried following the feeding schedule at generalhydroponics.com ?  i would give them 2.5 ml of floranova grow per gallon of RO water.  none of that other stuff just yet.   adjust the pH of that to 5.8 and then top off your rez with plain RO water and adjust your pH to 5.8 daily.  you look to have a decent size root system and it should handle nutes just fine.

i have noticed with my grows that the pH will rise quickly when I am not giving them enough nutes, but if you adjust daily then it's all good.  

after 10-14 days of that, i would kick it up to 5 ml of floranova grow and 0.5 ml of florolicious plus per gallon of RO water.  

this way you'll gradually step up the nutes.  this is just following the recirculating schedule that GH recommends.

of course this is just MHO.  good luck and happy growing.


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## MindzEye (Feb 3, 2010)

scatking said:
			
		

> Not to confuse the subject, but if you have nute lock out these best cure is to flush the plant with flora-kleen to allow uptake to resume.  I think the frequent adjustment of your nute levels may be a problem as well.
> 
> I never use ph up (liquid).  If I go a little overboard with ph down, I simply add regular water to bring the level back up. a range of 5.5 - 5.9 has been very successful for me, and since I change the rez once a week, I rarely ever adjust ph once the mix is where I want it.
> 
> ...




How much you PH adjust all depends on water and nutes.. If I mixed my nutes the PH would be 5.2 when done mixing, now at this point if I add more water then Im diluting the mix and not reaching my desired PPM..

I adjust my PH daily, it hasnt been an issue of too much adjustment.. Instead Im keeping my nutrients in the optimal range so the plants can absorb more.


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## tbomun (Feb 3, 2010)

thanks for all the INFO!  i was following the GH nute calc. on their site. but i think i boned the pH for like first 2wks. i was keeping it at 5.4 for some newbie reason. and the nutes were super high for one of those weeks. i switched out the res with reduced nutes. raised her up closer to the light. she was about 2 ft from the hps. moved her up to ft away. she started to  get ugly, switched out water with less nutes still. she got worse...

still looks bad, more brown crispy leaves. pH hovers between 5.8-6.4. res temp 68-69. air 72-76, humidity 40%. ppm around 300ish. im thinking just throw in the towel, lick my wounds, learn and redo my grow space. im in a stupid cab atm. looking at getting a tent.

tent i want or looking at is Secret Jardin 100L. 39.6"x39.6"x72"  is 400w hps enough for that size tent?


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## surreptitious (Feb 3, 2010)

a 400 watt should be able to handle that space just fine.


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## tbomun (Feb 3, 2010)

awesome thanks


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## tbomun (Mar 15, 2010)

ok so been a long while.  this plant never got better so arnd feb. 7th i literally ripped her out of the tub. roots ripping sound was ugly   i decided to plant it in the backyard for shits an giggles. although my expectations were very low because of the poor shape she was in and the damage from removing her. 

well just proves im a terrible grower, look at what mother nature made of her.  id say shes a month or two away from being rdy, poor girl has had it rough but is coming along still. shes a fighter!


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## godspeedsuckah (Mar 15, 2010)

Don't feel bad at all, my best grows are done outside when mother nature takes care of them for me. I always have little issues indoors for one reason or another and I have grown quite a bit of weed. She looks great. Good call on putting her outside, instead of having no herb you will be smoking her


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