# First Grow setup Q's



## Delta9 (Apr 14, 2014)

My fem seeds finally arrived in the mail and my grow tent arrives this week..
Time to make some final decisions regarding lighting and ventilation.
Am hoping some MP members can help me plan out the rest of my grow..

For this grow I will be planting White Widow x Big Bud, probably no more than four plants total and supercropping along the way..

My tent space area will be 200cm x 80cm x 120cm 
I plan to veg with fluros [Grolite 125 Watt 6400] and flower with hps @ 600W
Ventilation will hopefully be taken care of with 150mm Inline fan-94 litres/sec 
Homemade carbon scrubber

My questions are:
Will a vent fan with these specs be ok?
Will one Grolite fluro be adequate for the space or will I require multiple?

Any further suggestions or advice?

Many thanks for any input you can offer -positive or negative..

peace and love and sticky resin glands to you all!

Delta9


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 14, 2014)

Okay, my pea brain has to translate cm into inches and then into feet.....approx. 6.5' x 2.5', 16.25 sq ft.

As far as your fan......(had to go to the calculator).  If I figured it right, 94 litres/second is approx. 200 cu ft a minute.  I don't think that this is going to be big enough.  If this is a duct booster fan, it will not work.  I think that you are going to want a fan this is at least twice as powerful.  I run a 6" Vortex with 448 cu ft/minute.

Lighting needs are figured by lumens per sq ft.  For veg we want a minimum of 3000 lumens per sq ft, for flowering we want 5000 pr sq ft.  In checking out your bulb, it appears that it emits 7000 lumens.  While the plants are small, 1 bulb will do, but as they get larger, you are going to need more light--way more light.  Figure that 1 light will do a little less than a foot of the width of the space.  So while the plants are small enough to fit in 1 foot across the back of short end of the tent, one light is okay.  As they get bigger, you will need more and more lights.  If your space was full of big gals (Big Bud can get big), you will need 7 of those 125W lights to be adequately lit--that is 875W !  

Generally speaking, out of all the bulbs we use to grow, CFLs are the most expensive to run as they get fewer lumens per watt than any other light source used for growing.  The bulb you have mentioned only gets 56 lumens per watt.  You may want to look into HO T5 fluorescent tubes, which get 92 lumens per watt.  They come in 2' and 4' fixtures and with different numbers of tubes--1, 2, 4, 6, 8.  Or you may want to get a digital ballast that you can run both HPS and MH bulbs in and veg with MH (I do prefer T5s though).

Asking questions before buying is very smart.  Most of us that have been growing for any amount of time have a storage area with ill-thought-out purchases.


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## BenfukD (Apr 14, 2014)

> Asking questions before buying is very smart. Most of us that have been growing for any amount of time have a storage area with ill-thought-out purchases.



:yeahthat:


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## Delta9 (Apr 15, 2014)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Okay, my pea brain has to translate cm into inches and then into feet.....approx. 6.5' x 2.5', 16.25 sq ft.
> 
> As far as your fan......(had to go to the calculator).  If I figured it right, 94 litres/second is approx. 200 cu ft a minute.  I don't think that this is going to be big enough.  If this is a duct booster fan, it will not work.  I think that you are going to want a fan this is at least twice as powerful.  I run a 6" Vortex with 448 cu ft/minute.
> 
> ...



Firstly- thankyou for answering my questions

I am seriously rethinking my lighting and ventilation plans.
Will be looking for a more powerful centrifugal fan. Yes my original option was a duct booster type fan- [i think we call them inline fans here in NZ]. 

Energy efficiency and economy are paramount to my aims for this grow so I will ditch the idea of using cfl's and have begun to explore the HO T5's solution as you suggest. 

If I understand you correctly I will need a minimum of 48,750 lumens in veg?..[3000 x 16.25] & again a minimum of 81,250 lumens [5000 x 16.25] to flower?

A local aqaurium shop here has a HO T5 option which is a 24" T5 Quad 96W
(4x 24W) 10,000 lumens..but I would need like, 5 of those to veg? ugh pricey..
Please correct me if I misunderstood the maths.
I will definitely be investing in a digital ballast as you mentioned. 
Though I had hoped to use it just for flowering

Many thanks

Delta9


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 15, 2014)

I don't run the 24W tubes.  I run 54W tubes that emit 5000 lumens.  One fixture with 6 bulbs will emit 30,000 lumens.  Here in the US, they are about $150.  I think that you will find that you will not be using the entire tent for vegging....otherwise you will run out of space during flowering.  So, you may very well be able to run fewer lumens as you are not going to be using the entire tent.  

I think that the digi ballast is your cheapest option and it will do a great job.  Why had you hoped to use the HID just for flowering and not vegging?

Make sure you get an air coolable hood when ordering your light.  It is virtually impossible to keep a space cool enough without one.  Look for some kind of centrifuge fan, like a Vortex, for ventilation.  Centrifuge fans are also inline fans, but not duct booster fans.  Duct booster fans are meant to do exactly what the name implies--it is a duct _booster_ fan.  It is not a stand alone fan and was never meant to be one.  It is meant to assist another larger fan on long ducting runs.


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## lyfespan (Apr 16, 2014)

the next edition of flurescent T-5 fixtures VHO

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/88801/SUN-960375.html

56,000 lumens


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## Delta9 (Apr 16, 2014)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I don't run the 24W tubes.  I run 54W tubes that emit 5000 lumens.  One fixture with 6 bulbs will emit 30,000 lumens.  Here in the US, they are about $150.  I think that you will find that you will not be using the entire tent for vegging....otherwise you will run out of space during flowering.  So, you may very well be able to run fewer lumens as you are not going to be using the entire tent.
> 
> I think that the digi ballast is your cheapest option and it will do a great job.  Why had you hoped to use the HID just for flowering and not vegging?
> 
> Make sure you get an air coolable hood when ordering your light.  It is virtually impossible to keep a space cool enough without one.  Look for some kind of centrifuge fan, like a Vortex, for ventilation.  Centrifuge fans are also inline fans, but not duct booster fans.  Duct booster fans are meant to do exactly what the name implies--it is a duct _booster_ fan.  It is not a stand alone fan and was never meant to be one.  It is meant to assist another larger fan on long ducting runs.



I really like the sound of those 54 watt T5 HO- but it seems they are only available in 4ft length- which is too long for my tent. damn.

I had hoped to use the hps just for flowering to save on electricity.

I think maybe you are right about a digi ballast as best option and I guess I will give up on the fluros entirely...
..Unless anyone can offer a fluro solution for vegging under 3 feet or less in length? 

Yes I will be getting a more powerful centrifugal fan now too.

Good recommendation on the coolable hood also- great point.

Thanks so much for all your advice !

Delta9


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## Delta9 (Apr 16, 2014)

lyfespan said:


> the next edition of flurescent T-5 fixtures VHO
> 
> http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/88801/SUN-960375.html
> 
> 56,000 lumens


 
Thanks lyfespan they look great- but too long for my space unfortunately.


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## sawhse (Apr 16, 2014)

http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-2-Foot-4-Lamp-PL-55-Tek-Lamp

Maybe another option. I have one of these


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## Delta9 (Apr 16, 2014)

sawhse said:


> http://www.htgsupply.com/Product-HTG-Supply-2-Foot-4-Lamp-PL-55-Tek-Lamp
> 
> Maybe another option. I have one of these



Dude -thankyou that might just be perfect..if they ship internationally.
I will query them straight away.

Thanks again.


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## sawhse (Apr 16, 2014)

Delta9 said:


> Dude -thankyou that might just be perfect..if they ship internationally.
> I will query them straight away.
> 
> Thanks again.



Your welcome good luck in your quest!


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 16, 2014)

I figured your tent to be 6.5' x 2.5'.....did I figure that wrong?  Otherwise I wouldn't have even mentioned the 4' T5s.  

Okay, I think I figured it out.  I am thinking that your tent is 120cm x 80cm x 200cm--not 200 x 80 x 120.  When we list dimensions (at least in the US), the height is usually the last figure with the first 2 numbers being the length and width.  So, if your tent is actually 120 x 80 x 200, that changes ALL the numbers....120cm is just shy of 4', 80cm is just under 2.5 feet and the 200cm is your height--6.5'.  Your area is only 10 sq ft.  You need a minimum of 30000 lumens for vegging.

I personally prefer T5s over MH, but I and tons of others also veg (or vegged) with a MH.  Unless cash is not a problem, you might just want to go with the MH for vegging.


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## Delta9 (Apr 16, 2014)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> I figured your tent to be 6.5' x 2.5'.....did I figure that wrong?  Otherwise I wouldn't have even mentioned the 4' T5s.
> 
> Okay, I think I figured it out.  I am thinking that your tent is 120cm x 80cm x 200cm--not 200 x 80 x 120.  When we list dimensions (at least in the US), the height is usually the last figure with the first 2 numbers being the length and width.  So, if your tent is actually 120 x 80 x 200, that changes ALL the numbers....120cm is just shy of 4', 80cm is just under 2.5 feet and the 200cm is your height--6.5'.  Your area is only 10 sq ft.  You need a minimum of 30000 lumens for vegging.
> 
> I personally prefer T5s over MH, but I and tons of others also veg (or vegged) with a MH.  Unless cash is not a problem, you might just want to go with the MH for vegging.




Yes sorry for the confusion-I had my numbers backwards-my tent is actually 120 x 80 x 200..
The reason is, I work in a factory that manufactures glass and we learn to measure dimensions height FIRST-but to calculate area or volume you are correct- height is measured LAST. So yes that does change all the numbers.

Anyway thanks for the correction
-I am still hopeful I can find a 2ft T5..there seem to be many great options for those of you in the US or Europe. 
Here in NZ we are a little challenged by distance which obviously bumps up the cost of shipping and many retailers will simply not ship here.

I will persevere for now but im running outta time with my grow schedule.
I need to be vegging all through May. 

In the meantime I will try and get my head around calculating my CFM value for my fan which is confusing as US made fans are rated cubic feet per minute whereas here we go by the European standard M3/Hr !!


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## ShOrTbUs (Apr 16, 2014)

at 10sq ft of space you want to run a 2ft (4 or 6) bulb t5 and a 400 watt hps with an air cooled hood, and digital ballast. OR you can skip the t5 and grab a 400 watt MH bulb and use that for veg. the MH/HPS combo with be roughly 80-100$ less towards your overall costs.

you can get away with a 4" centrifugal fan for your space size, but i wouldn't reccomend it. the 6" fan's give you more then double the power for only about a 30%-40% price increase.

now i know the 6" fan is overkill, but for an extra 15$ you can pick up a speed controller, which will allow you to run the fan at many different settings.



will amazon deliver to you? if so they have a really good deal. 

hxxp://www.amazon.com/iPower-GLSETX600DHMWING20-600-Watt-Digital-Dimmable/dp/B005DOS0R8/ref=pd_sbs_lg_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0ZZN9RKTK3XMV9X759J7

you'll notice if you go to their 400 watt package, it's only a couple dollars less. the best part being it's a dimmable ballast. with the dimmable ballast, you can simple run the light at 400 watts instead of the full 600.

6" fan + carbon filter combo: 
hxxp://www.amazon.com/VenTech-Hydroponic-Inline-Carbon-Control/dp/B0051HDECS/ref=pd_sim_lg_14?ie=UTF8&refRID=0G27J6BGR3G3ZDEA5D9N

if you scroll 2/3 down the page you will see an option "frequently bought together". it allows you to pair your purchase with a speed controller, and 6" duct. which you will need to purchase anyhow.

i think the best part about buying these is, if you want to move to a larger space in the future, this will allow you to do so without needing to buy any new equipment.


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## lyfespan (Apr 17, 2014)

Delta9 said:


> I really like the sound of those 54 watt T5 HO- but it seems they are only available in 4ft length- which is too long for my tent. damn.
> 
> I had hoped to use the hps just for flowering to save on electricity.
> 
> ...


i believe that HO also come in 2x2 but as well


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## Delta9 (Apr 17, 2014)

Thanks ShOrTbUs,
Excellent advice there- those specifications are exactly what I am leaning towards now
I had'nt thought to look around Amazon for some reason- I think they will ship selected items to NZ so that is looking like the most promising option for the rest of my kit.
That ballast looks nice -I like that it is voltage switchable to 240V too. 

Just to clarify please-the reason you suggest running the 600w dimmed to 400w is power conservation? Is that right?


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 17, 2014)

Shortbus, if you have a source for 5000 lumen 2' tubes, I am all ears.  All the 2' T5s I have seen are 2000 lumens (except the PLL55 which are double tube) and 6 will not do the job--you would need 15 to reach 30,000 lumens.  You are probably going to have to go with the PLL55 double tube if you are going to use T5s.  The 4 tube PLL55 emits 20000lumens--you would need a 4 tube and a 2 tube--we are getting into more money than your HPS setup.  

My advise to you is to buy a 600W dimmable digital ballast with an air coolable hood and both MH and HID bulbs.  Get a 6" centrifuge type fan and an air speed controller.  The dim feature on the ballast can help with heat control and electricity savings when the tent is not full.  For flowering, I suspect that you will want to run at full power.  I run my flowering lights at night to help with heat control in the summer....however you are just going into winter down there in the southern hemisphere.


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## Delta9 (Apr 18, 2014)

The Hemp Goddess said:


> Shortbus, if you have a source for 5000 lumen 2' tubes, I am all ears.  All the 2' T5s I have seen are 2000 lumens (except the PLL55 which are double tube) and 6 will not do the job--you would need 15 to reach 30,000 lumens.  You are probably going to have to go with the PLL55 double tube if you are going to use T5s.  The 4 tube PLL55 emits 20000lumens--you would need a 4 tube and a 2 tube--we are getting into more money than your HPS setup.
> 
> My advise to you is to buy a 600W dimmable digital ballast with an air coolable hood and both MH and HID bulbs.  Get a 6" centrifuge type fan and an air speed controller.  The dim feature on the ballast can help with heat control and electricity savings when the tent is not full.  For flowering, I suspect that you will want to run at full power.  I run my flowering lights at night to help with heat control in the summer....however you are just going into winter down there in the southern hemisphere.



Happy Easter Everyone-
Aside from an intake fan, will a 6' centrifuge fan connected to a cool tube shade and filter suffice to vent my tents hot air?
That is-do the bulb AND the tent require their own discreet vent fans? Or will I manage with just the one connected to the shade and filter?


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## Hushpuppy (Apr 19, 2014)

For your size tent the 6" fan will easily cool both tent and light fixture even while pulling through a nice filter. It is not necessary to have them separate unless you are doing a very specialized grow in a larger space. I recommend that you get the 6"x24" filter as they are the most efficient for the size and will last a long time. I place my fan outside my tent and connect it with the flex-hose to the light fixture within the tent. Then connect the other side of the light to the filter with flex hose so that the filter can be suspended at the very top of the tent(I use the heavy duty long "zip-ties" or stiff electric wire to tie my filter to the top off my tent). This setup will pull the heated and oxygenated air that is at the top, out off the tent through the filter then by the light bulb so that it stays cooler, then through the fan and out. 

At the same time, fixing the smaller openings at the bottom of the tent to allow air to come in without allowing light to come in, will allow cooler, co2 rich air to be pulled into the tent under the plants and up by the leaves by the vacuum affect off the exhaust fan.

I totally agree with The Hemp Goddess on using the Metal halide during veg with the ballast turned down as you don't need as many lumens during veg. Then when you switch to flowering, you replace the MH bulb with the HPS bulb and turn it up to full power so that you get the max amount of lumens for producing the best buds. One thing on getting the MH bulbs, If you can find "IPower" bulbs in MH they are rated at 6500K spectrum which is best for vegging. I don't know if amazon sells them or not. If not try to see if you can get some MH bulbs that are listed as 6500K as most are 5000K, which is not the best spectrum for vegging plants. Or one of us can get them and ship to you if you want.


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## Delta9 (Apr 19, 2014)

Thanks Hushpuppy- your explanation clarified those issues perfectly for me. 
I have seen those IPower bulbs-I will look into sourcing them and if I cant I may take you up on your super kind offer to ship some out to me. I have had the most frustrating time getting Ebay and Amazon retailers to ship to my part of the world. However I have just recently discovered Greners Hydroponic Supplies [you may be familiar with them] who ship worldwide and have an excellent selection of brands and equipment. Not to mention some of the best buyers guides and advice and grow info on offer. I have just placed an order with them for a Phresh filter and a Solis Tek ballast.


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## DrFever (Apr 19, 2014)

i have  tryed a bunch of  florescents and found  sunblaster to be the best  so far 

http://www.futureharvest.com/our-products/sunblaster-lighting/t5ho-lighting/  at 24 watts per   comes in 2 foot and 4 foot   there awesome


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## Hushpuppy (Apr 22, 2014)

Cool that sounds good. If you can't get the I-Power bulbs, check around as I would think they aren't the only ones who make the MH bulbs in 6500K. If not just let me know and I would be happy to send them to you


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## Delta9 (Apr 25, 2014)

The only T5 HO i can find locally is this one from a pet store.
Its an Odyssea brand fixture with bulbs included.
Here is the blurb with specs:

4" T5 Quad Deluxe 96W Plant Version(4x 24W) 
Excellent for freshwater and planted aquariums that need ample daylight. 
Extendable brackets - 30" Max Length 
Fixture comes with 4x 10,000K lamps. 
Features: 
Dimensions - 23.50 x 7.50 x 2.15 
Brackets add 0.50" in height 
Supports 4x 24W T5 High Output lamps 
Supports standard T5 HO lamps 
96W total power 
Quick disconnect ballast 
Individual power cords for each function 
Extendable bracket - 30" max extend 
Non-corrosive powder coated aluminum housing 
Reflector 
Acrylic splash guard 
CE Certified 
Includes: 
1x 24" T5 Quad fixture 
4x 24W T5 HO lamps 10,000K


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## The Hemp Goddess (Apr 25, 2014)

No--that is not really what you want.  First the spectrum of the bulbs is not correct.  You would need all new bulbs and....I just am not crazy about the 24W tubes.  They only emit 2000 lumens, so one of these fixtures wouldn't do the job.  With these bulbs only emitting 2000 lumens, you would need 15 of them to adequately light your veg space, or 3-1/2 fixtures.  And then you would still have to replace the bulbs with something more in the 6500K range.

I truly believe that given where you are and the difficulty of getting things shipped that a dimmable electronic ballast and MH is your best option for vegging.


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