Gotta Problem with my organic girls

[Hushpuppy]

So this is my first run with organic growing. I got 3 girls in flower, just starting their 3rd week. All has been great up till about 9 days ago. Started noticing some yellowing and a little necrotic spotting on a few lower leaves. In the last few days it has progressed more. I am suspecting I have a PH issue in the soil but since my probe crashed and burned just the other day, I haven't been able to do any checking. I got my new pen now and will check the girls tomorrow morning.

They are in an all organic miracle grow mix(on the bag they swear its all organic) It is mixed with pearlite, lime, and garden tone. The pots are 2.5gal. I need some advice from my organic/soil growing peeps. What do yall think?

Pictured is 1 plant BlueMystic which issue appeared first. other 2 plants are Blueberry Punch. Last pic is the nutrient specs of the Espoma Garden Tone

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I had some of that my first run when I did not use enough supersoil in my mix. Have you been feeding them? Or did you use any supersoil? I do not believe that that soil is made to feed plants all the way through--it is simply an organic soil with a few added things.

 

[Hushpuppy]

Hey Goddess; I was beginning to think the same thing. That is the one thing about organic that I don't like, not knowing really how much to put in for them to have the proper feeding level. I was thinking that it might be short on flowering nutes because they looked great during veg. I added another helping of garden tone to the top and watered it in a couple days ago but can't tell if it is helping or not yet.

That is why I like hydro so much, I know exactly what is going into the medium every time I water, and if they start to look hungry, I adjust and within a day or two they are back on track.

 

[Hushpuppy]

I discovered something today when I went back to check on my girls. I had 2 buckets of water taken straight from the well. When first measured for PH right after drawing it, I was getting 6.6-6.7. I put an air-stone in one bucket to let it aerate. After 24hrs I found that the non-aerated bucket was up from 6.7 to 7.0, while the aerated bucket was up to 7.8.

I used the water that was non-aerated and added PH adjuster to bring it down to 6.0 then watered my organic girls until I got runoff into clean catch saucers. The PH coming out of the pots was at 6.7. To me that is too high. If the water going in is 6.0 and coming out is 6.7 then I am thinking that the soil PH is even higher than 6.7, probably over 7.0.

I have heard organic growers say that when growing organic that the PH isn't an issue unless it is way out because the microbes take care of the nutrient availability to the plants. Any growers agree with this or no?

 

[Wetdog]

That pH of 6.7 is PERFECT.

Stop with the pH adjustment of your water. Whatever you are using to adjust pH is doing more harm than good. The pH right out of the well is perfect for soil. Quit thinking hydro, you aren't in Kansas anymore. 6.3-7.0 is ideal.

How much lime did you add to the MG? If you added enough, the pH of any liquids just doesn't matter, the soil will buffer it to ~6.8 or so.

I use garden tone also and it gets tricky since you need to add it a couple of weeks before it's needed. Don't wait till it's obvious.

The microbes do their bit, the lime does a big bit, but you won't hit a target pH, not in organics. It will change from day to day and in different locations in the mix/container. For me, if it's somewhere between 6.3-7.1, I call it good.

Lime has a pH of 7.0 and it will keep the soil buffered in that direction, usually ~6.7-6.9. Your well water is perfect as is. My tap water comes out ~7.1 and works just fine.

BTW, I'm in the Upstate just below you.

Wet

 

[Old_SSSC_Guy]

I am with Wetdog. But what's the pH of the run off? Might offer a clue if you see changes in pH from top to bottom. Have you tried a good heavy flush of clear water just to stabilize the containers?

I am not saying its an issue but I would not trust 'miracle grow' anything. It would be like trusting McDonald's that an item was "organic". They are a large chemical company who sells chemical by-products as plan nutrients. They are not a plant nutrient company who happens to use inorganic chemicals in 99% of the products they manufacture. Maybe I stand alone on this one but to me they are a very un-good company.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

I am just watering with straight water--not even checking the pH--that I let sit overnight.

Old SSSC Guy--I also have some problems with them.

 

[ozzydiodude]

A little compost/worm casting tea to get the microbes going good is imo what you need. With the SS mixes it seems that you need to give the microbes a little boost every couple weeks. The more and better they are growing the better your plants do. This is also why I think the reused ss mixes seem to grow better. It takes time for the microbes to completely make the nutes we use to build the soils available to the plants,

Sorry :stoned: and mind rambling

 

[Wetdog]

Big +1 on the used mix. I prefer it over fresh made.

With the lime, something I've noticed with the dolomite and that is, the Mg seems slower to release than the Ca. I've had to apply some epsom salts in the early going (2 months??). After that, no problem.

Just a thought.

Wet

 

[Hushpuppy]

Thanks guys I really appreciate this info. I kind of jumped into the organic run without being as ready as I like. I have decent head knowledge, but as you say "stop thinking Hydro". My Ph run-off today was 6.7 after watering with 6.0.

When I set up the pots (2gal) The girls were already rooted in FFOF but only in 1quart containers and I wasn't expecting to go organic(even though I wanted to try it). I went to find the mix that THG uses but couldn't find it and saw the "organic" mix from MG. After looking it over really good, Idecided to go with it as I intended to mix it with some amendments. I put 4-5 cups of Garden Tone in the mix along with about 4 cups of lime, and that was for 3-2gal pots. I am kicking myself now for not precisely measuring and recording everything I did (I normally do that for future reference)

I am currently making a compost tea from some stuff called Cow Peat, which is composted manure. It says on the bag that it is very good for making tea for feeding. It says to mix 3:1 regular water with the Cow Peat and allow to sit overnight. I was thinking about watering with that again tomorrow morning to see if it helps as I am inclined to believe that they are deficient in P and K at this point. Does that sound like a sound idea?

 

[ozzydiodude]

Add a air stone to it so the microbes can get going good

 

[Dan K. Liberty]

HP remember the thread on pH drift ? I'm convinced it occurs in soil as well as hydro setups. I am pouring solution at pH 6.9 . . . and within 24 hrs. the pH in the root zone drops to 6.1 as they feed hard on it . . . then over the next 24 hrs it slowly drifts back up to a perfect 6.5 and stays there for a couple days, then slowly rises back to 6.9 by the time they're ready for more.

The pics you posted on this thread are very similar to a plant I have right now . . . she's the hungriest girl in the room . . . well the pH has been right on, and I've kept to a tight feeding schedule, but this week I delayed her feeding by ONE DAY - and overnite, your pic shows what happened to my plant. She was so expecting to get fed, and when she didn't get it, she ate her own leaves up, overnite.

So I'm with Wetdog . . . don't pH down like you did in hydro, just bump up the feeding (however you do that in an organic setup).

I'm gonna photo shoot tonite and post on the thread that sorta morphed into my GJ . . . check out this one plant and see if it aint a dead ringer for yours


EDIT: oops on further inspection, my symptom looks similar, but not the same as yours. Mine is not an organic setup either, so we're unlikely to have the same problem . . . thinkin' mine might be a borderline toxic salt condition - no yellowing, just went straight from green to brown, possibly because I dried her out that extra day, concentrating the salts in solution . . . could both of these be from an acute starvation event ?? Not sure.

Funny thing is, see the nice healthy one behind her? . . . . that's another main cola - on the same plant !! The two front colas caught the brunt of it, while the two in back next to the wall were virtually unscathed . . . go figure

 

[Hushpuppy]

Ok I can't swear to it but I think we have it back on the right track as they don't seem to be getting any worse. I added the food to them a few days ago and today I gave them some compost tea. I got a few pics here of my compost and tea. I added the bubblers to it and a little molasses so a week or two should tell us the truth.

Thanks guys for all the help :farm: As I said before, I have read and learned a lot about organic but had not put any of it to action till now. It's good to have good peeps to back each other up. If I could I would :48:

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

If you are not using super soil, I think that you absolutely are going to have to feed your plants along the way. I only get by a few weeks with the Kellogg's mix. When they are transplanted to the 3 gal pots, I am running about 50% super soil. You do need to put extra things into the base organic soil if you want it to continually feed.

 

[Hushpuppy]

Yeah, I should have read up on the organics setup before taking off with it. I had read it before about having enough in the soil to carry but forgot about having to give some extra for nute hungry girls like these.

I checked on my tea today and it had foamed up big time to the point that the foam overflowed the top of the bucket. I guess the microbes have taken off and are working the mix?

How long should I continue to aerate the mix? Is it best to leave the bubbler on constantly or put it on a timer?

I am using about 1-1.5gal of water for the girls right now every other day, can I just keep the "bucket of brew" going and add water to it as I take out?

And then after the 3rd-4th time of adding back just dump out the used bulk compost material and leave a little of it with some water(to maintain the microherd) and add all new to build a new bucket?

Thanks guys

 

[juniorgrower]

That happened to me too HP. I made a tea in the evening and didn't check on it until the morning and what a mess it made.

 

[The Hemp Goddess]

Yeah, I should have read up on the organics setup before taking off with it. I had read it before about having enough in the soil to carry but forgot about having to give some extra for nute hungry girls like these.

I checked on my tea today and it had foamed up big time to the point that the foam overflowed the top of the bucket. I guess the microbes have taken off and are working the mix?

How long should I continue to aerate the mix? Is it best to leave the bubbler on constantly or put it on a timer?

I am using about 1-1.5gal of water for the girls right now every other day, can I just keep the "bucket of brew" going and add water to it as I take out?

And then after the 3rd-4th time of adding back just dump out the used bulk compost material and leave a little of it with some water(to maintain the microherd) and add all new to build a new bucket?

Thanks guys

I wouldn't keep the bucket going. Make a batch and feed the girls. What you do not use now, put on outside plants. I strained the tea, put what I had strained in the composter, and watered the girls with the strained tea. I bubbled mine 2 days all the time. Mine never foamed over. I used a tea recipe that Ozzy posted.