PLEASE Read Before Making Homemade H2SO4 pH Down! Important Info You NEED To Know!

[snaxforgandhi]

DJ,

Yeah, I suppose being color impaired would have a pretty whoppin' effect on trying to read a colored reagent test! And red-green to boot! Have you thought about using a digital! I love mine, when I haven't broken them of course . My better one (the one I broke) also reads TDS/EC, and compensates for temp. It totally spoiled me. I miss it big time.

I try to be glad when some one catches something that I post as being potentially harmful to someone reading it without the background/mind set that I have, but sometimes it is hard to not read more into it thanthe poster means.

I'm not sure I'm understanding this correctly (entirely possible), but, just in case, let me restate that I sincerely hope that you weren't offended. No ill will, scout's honor.

I see in your signature that you are a Disabled Vet. I too am a Disabled Vet. Navy. And proud.

~Snax

 

[DonJones]

The one you broke sounds like the Hanna one that I'm saving up to buy. I think the one I'm looking at also give the solution temp as well as compensating for the temp.

What I was trying to say is usually I'm not offended by someone challenging anything I post. I also try to remind readers frequently to be skeptical of anything they read, especially my posts, and if it doesn't make sense then check it out. About the only time I get offended is when someone can't give a source for their opinion and become obnoxious neither of which apply to your posts. Your posts are well thought out, documented and usually over my head and I'm at least average in general knowledge even though I just getting started learning about growing. Fortunately I worked on my grandparent's farm until I turned 18 and moved away, so that gives me a little bit of general growing knowledge and have some local old timers here in town that try to be very helpful, but unfortunately, most of them are outdoor stealth growers with little knowledge about hydro or some of the newer techniques. For example, none of them had even heard about autoflowering varieties.

I'm an Air Force vet myself and proud of serving my country but not particularly proud of having been in the Air Force -- in fact I frequently call it the Air Farce because the discipline was erratic at best and most of the crap we put up with came from drunk E-9s that couldn't hold a job anywhere else.

Not to worry, if I'm offended, you will know it. Oh another thing that lights my fire is when someone starts being obnoxious to some one else. My pet peeve is when people use the forums to visit with each other in the middleof a thread rather than using PM for visiting.

Good smoking!

 

[snaxforgandhi]

The one you broke sounds like the Hanna one that I'm saving up to buy. I think the one I'm looking at also give the solution temp as well as compensating for the temp.

Mine's the Hanna HI-98129 and, yes, it gives solution temp as well as automatically compensating for temp when measuring pH and EC/TDS, something they call "ATC." Plus, you can specify the conversion factor for the EC/TDS measurements from 0.45 to 1.00, and you can do the same for the temp compensation coefficient beta, selection range being from 0 to like 2.4 or 2.5. On top of that it holds programs for single, double, or triple point pH cal, and single or double EC/TDS cal. It's freakin' awesome! Like I said, it has totally spoiled me. You're gonna love yours!

Word of warning from the genius who broke his! The ion permeable glass they make the pH electrode from is extremely thin and fragile! (At least mine was) I was used to my older Hanna that had a really sturdy glass 'trode with a permeable ceramic plug in the end. It was pretty much idiot-proof. Not so with the new one! Thank God the electrode is a replaceable cartridge. My new rule will be, "Never touch the 'trode with anything but liquid, e.g. nutes, cleaner, cal solution, etc.

I hope to see you at the Coffee Table so we can chew the fat about this and that.

~Snax (He Who Lurks)

 

[Droopy Dog]

Da bump.

DD

 

[ta2dguy]

great thread, i buy a litre of phdown for $9.99 canadian and have never made my own but am a nut for scientific/chemistry talk. i know this thread is old too but who cares, lotsa great info here and not just about home made ph down. i need a good session with my volcano after that read .

 

[Droopy Dog]

great thread, i buy a litre of phdown for $9.99 canadian and have never made my own but am a nut for scientific/chemistry talk. i know this thread is old too but who cares, lotsa great info here and not just about home made ph down. i need a good session with my volcano after that read .

I started to buy some pH down, remembered Tater's thread and bought a qt of 'battery acid, fluid' for $6.75.

Haven't opened it yet, but pretty sure it's the solution and not the concentrate. The nitty gritty details are inside the box, but it does say Battery Fluid, Acid on another place on the box.

I don't need much, but it just irks me to buy pre mixed anything and pay all those $$$ for mostly water.:rant:

DD

 

[snaxforgandhi]

... i know this thread is old too but who cares, lotsa great info here and not just about home made ph down. i need a good session with my volcano after that read .

Some things grow even better with age

~Snax

 

[snaxforgandhi]

...Haven't opened it yet, but pretty sure it's the solution and not the concentrate. The nitty gritty details are inside the box, but it does say Battery Fluid, Acid on another place on the box...

I suspect you're correct, usually the term "fluid" indicates the 33% premix. And I agree that paying so much for premixed, mostly water "down" chaps at one's, er... hide.

~Snax

 

[Droopy Dog]

I suspect you're correct, usually the term "fluid" indicates the 33% premix. And I agree that paying so much for premixed, mostly water "down" chaps at one's, er... hide.

~Snax

Yes, it's exactly the same as Fig's 1&2 that you posted.

DD

 

[DonJones]

EVERYONE,

I corrected my earlier post so please be sure to reread it before you use a 1/3 mixture of battery fluid, acid to H2O! DO NOT USE THE 1 TO 3 RATIO!! IT IS NOT SAFE FOR GENERAL USE!!

The correct ratio is 1 to 8.46 (100 ml Acid to 846 ml H2O gives one US quart.) I really don't know where the 1 to 3 ratio came from but anywhere over a 5% solution is too hot to be using for PH down or storing around the house. I just found my notes and discovered that when I was trying to determine what ratio to use, I started at 1 to 3 and found it too sensitive to be practical for PH adjusting. I finally settled on the 1 to 8.46 ratio which gives me approximately a 3.48% mixture, which is still pretty hot, but it is easy to remember, just put 846 ml of H2O in a marked quart container and slowly add 100 ml of battery fluid, acid to it. I have a quart jar that I use to store the PH adjusting solution in that has a mark at both 846 ml and 946 ml- 1US quart. That makes it real easy to use to mix a new batch up. It also pretty much insures that I'm not going to get the mixture to strong unless I short the amount of H2O that I put in the jar or over fill it with acid. (I usually use a large syringe to measure and add the battery fluid/acid because I find I can control it easier that way. It is a little slower than pouring it, but a lot more accurate and since I've retired I have plenty of time on my hands anyway.)

Until I can find a reasonable price and source for graduated cylinders -- ANY SUGGESTIONS ANYONE? --, I'll continue to use syringes obtained from the local veterinary supply/feed store.

Here is an update on adjusting the PH before adding nutrients or after. I have finally acquired a reliable Hanna PH pen (even color challenged people like me can read the numbers on the digital readout) and have checked the final PH doing it both ways. I find that my error batch to batch is larger than the difference in when I put the PH down in. That is in line with what the manufacturer for FHD/Holland's Secret nutrients told me about their nutrients.

I have found it easier to put 4 gallons of tape water in a 5 gallon bucket, pour it back and forth between two bucket several times to aerate the water and hopefully dissipate most of the chlorine, let it sit for about 1/2 hour or so, then add my nutrients and acid all at the same time, then aerate it some more by pouring it back and forth -- which also thoroughly mixes the solution up, let it set for 15 minutes to 30 minutes, then check both the PH and PPMs to be sure I didn't screw up. If it turns out okay, then I start feeding the plants with it. This method works great with both the veg and flowering mixtures. Once I get the carbon filter installed in the water supply to remove the chlorine, I will be able to skip the first aeration step along with the first sitting step. As our operation grows, I'll probably substitue using a paint mixer on a cordless drill to mix the H2O, niutrients and PH down instead of puring it back and forth. Plus it will be a lot easier on our backs.

I APOLOGIZE FOR THE ERROR IN MY ORIGINAL POST ABOUT MY RATIO OF DILUTION FROM BATTERY FLUID TO PH DOWN. HOPEFULLY NO ONE TRIED USING THAT RATIO. ONCE AGAIN THE CORRECT DILUTION RATIO FOR WHAT I USE IS 100 ML OF BATTERY FLUID ADDED TO 846 ML OF H2O AND GENTLY AGITATED TO THOROUGHLY MIX IT. This is a HOT mixture and UNLESS you really watch what your doing ALL THE TIME it would be better to use one of the mixtures that Snax posted at the start of the thread!

Again, I'm really sorry for the bad information I posted.

 

[benny_t]

This is Benny with Dark Nectar Cooperative. This is for our vermiponic farm.

We have historically adjusted pH with phosphoric acid, and I need to make an equivalent pH down with sulfuric acid.

We use 0-55-0 pH Down. It also says 55% Phosphate. I don't understand how a liquid can be both 55% P and 55% P2O5. When I called the company, they didn't have an answer.

Anyway...

I want pH Down for both our Sulfuric Acid and Phosphoric Acid solutions to have the same acidifying power. In our standard operating procedures, we prescribe that the pH can only be adjusted 0.5 per day. We manually test pH once per day. When a worker measures the pH and the pH is too high (and the carbonate level is 54 ppm for example), we prescribe that they add 50mL of 0-55-0 ph Down, we have found this is about a 0.3 pH adjustment for a 1000gal reservoir. I would like them to alternatively add 50mL of sulfuric acid, that also adjusts the 1000 gal reservoir by 0.3 pH. How do I formulate the sulfuric acid pH Down to have the same power as the 0-55-0 ph Down? I just bought Sulfuric Acid 96% ACS Grade.

The reason why...
we do sap analysis once/month. sometimes the phosphorous in the sap is deficient and sometimes the sulfur in the sap is deficient. Depending on what our plants are showing in deficiency, we will select the appropriate pH Down. I don't want to complicate it further by having different instructions for the different acids, especially because sulfuric acid is dangerous. Which leads to a minor question. If I dilute the sulfuric acid to the same acidifying power as the 0-55-0 pH Down, is it still more dangerous, or is it equally dangerous? The 0-55-0 pH Down, will minor burn/irritate my skin if for example it gets on my hand is left there for 5 mins. But if I rinse it off with water within a couple minutes, there's no problem. Seems to be about twice as powerful as lemon juice.

 

[oldfogey8]

This is Benny with Dark Nectar Cooperative. This is for our vermiponic farm.

We have historically adjusted pH with phosphoric acid, and I need to make an equivalent pH down with sulfuric acid.

We use 0-55-0 pH Down. It also says 55% Phosphate. I don't understand how a liquid can be both 55% P and 55% P2O5. When I called the company, they didn't have an answer.

Anyway...

I want pH Down for both our Sulfuric Acid and Phosphoric Acid solutions to have the same acidifying power. In our standard operating procedures, we prescribe that the pH can only be adjusted 0.5 per day. We manually test pH once per day. When a worker measures the pH and the pH is too high (and the carbonate level is 54 ppm for example), we prescribe that they add 50mL of 0-55-0 ph Down, we have found this is about a 0.3 pH adjustment for a 1000gal reservoir. I would like them to alternatively add 50mL of sulfuric acid, that also adjusts the 1000 gal reservoir by 0.3 pH. How do I formulate the sulfuric acid pH Down to have the same power as the 0-55-0 ph Down? I just bought Sulfuric Acid 96% ACS Grade.

The reason why...
we do sap analysis once/month. sometimes the phosphorous in the sap is deficient and sometimes the sulfur in the sap is deficient. Depending on what our plants are showing in deficiency, we will select the appropriate pH Down. I don't want to complicate it further by having different instructions for the different acids, especially because sulfuric acid is dangerous. Which leads to a minor question. If I dilute the sulfuric acid to the same acidifying power as the 0-55-0 pH Down, is it still more dangerous, or is it equally dangerous? The 0-55-0 pH Down, will minor burn/irritate my skin if for example it gets on my hand is left there for 5 mins. But if I rinse it off with water within a couple minutes, there's no problem. Seems to be about twice as powerful as lemon juice.

Don’t be bummed if you don’t get a reply other than this one. The thread is 13+ years old.

 

[pute]

I will watch

 

[user 60570]

Food grade , 85%

very strong , will BURN SKIN , on,y takes a drop or two per 5 gallons or something like that

one bottle lasted me over 5 years




https://www.dudadiesel.com/choose_item.php?id=FGphos

 

[Hippie420]

I just use the Milkstone remover at TSC. It'll make yer skin tingle if you leave it on for long, but it works great.
Only thing I dilute is 35% H2O2 down to around 6% with distilled water.